Great Russia, but no one to work!

204
Great Russia, but no one to work!

A seemingly paradoxical situation is emerging in the labor market. On the one hand, unemployment is falling, and on the other, a shortage of personnel is growing in many sectors. Both in the lower and middle management, and among specialists with higher education. But, experts say, with our approach to training this was predicted twenty years ago.

On the siding


Yes, in the last three years, unemployment rates have been slowly but surely creeping down. If at the beginning of 2017 we had an anti-record - 5,6% of the working-age population were overboard of official economic relations, now it is 4,6%. It seems that the numbers are not scary, but in people it is 3,5 million people!



Note that these are the estimates made by Rosstat according to the methodology of the International Labor Organization (ILO). The official trifle officially registered in employment service bodies is a mere trifle - 684 thousand people, or only 0,9% of the labor force. Why is there such a difference in estimates of unemployment? Everything is simple. Most of the unemployed do not see any reason to register with the employment service.


And above all (this is only in the first place) because the benefits are ridiculous. For 2020, the government set a minimum amount of 1,5 thousand rubles per month (!!!), a maximum of 8 thousand (this is only for those who had a very high salary before leaving). Secondly, they rarely can provide real assistance in employment of the labor exchange. The offered vacancies, or rather salaries and working conditions, are simply an abuse of legislation, common sense and human dignity. Repeatedly checked by my friends.

Judge for yourselves: it is not in vain that those 1,4 million vacancies that are offered in employment services, with three and a half million unemployed, remain unclaimed. And this story not one year. Decent jobs are snapping up like hotcakes before the ad even appears in the official database.

And yet, overall unemployment, as we see, is declining. Question: why, if our economic growth, frankly, is very modest? Some experts believe that the whole thing is to reduce the number of people of working age. According to the Accounting Chamber, since 2006 it has decreased by 9% and amounted to 82 million people.

In fact, things are even worse. The joint venture of the Russian Federation gave data for the middle of last year. And according to the latest estimates of the Federal State Statistics Service (selective monitoring was conducted), at the end of last year people of working age (from 15 to 72 years old) numbered 76,2 million people. Think for yourself how much our labor potential has decreased, taking into account 72-year-olds.


Leaving the market for older workers will further exacerbate the problem of staff shortages, even despite raising the retirement age. Everyone knows that very often employers perceive the elderly as ballast, which must be disposed of (if there is a replacement) or transferred to less paid posts.

For the state is not offensive?


The Government of the Russian Federation annually sets quotas for the attraction of foreign labor. For 2020, for citizens of visa-free countries it is defined as 105 thousand people. These are not those migrant workers who come to Russia on their own, buy a patent and work, as a rule, at the lowest-income jobs, because they have no education or have a minimum professional education.

Relatively speaking, these are janitors. Here is another matter. To work, say, on the rig, we need both special knowledge and experience. Here people already have some kind of knowledge and experience base, because it is not in vain that companies pay a lot of money to the invitation of each such specialist.

It is no coincidence that 96,5% of the 105 thousand people are skilled workers. Basically, they are attracted to large investment projects. In particular, this year they are waiting for them at the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome, the Power of Siberia gas pipeline (remember the National Treasure advertisement?), The West Siberian petrochemical complex for the deep processing of hydrocarbons and others.

Is it a shame for the power? Is it really poor to prepare your specialists for such projects? And will our people really refuse to work on the construction sites of the century, to create the "national treasure"? Especially for the considerable salaries that they are offered? Or still do not offer? Maybe the point is not so much that the professionalism of workers from neighboring countries is higher, but that they can be paid less?

However, it is not always possible to replace our specialists with foreign ones. The other day there was a plot on TV from the Krasnodar Territory. There are not enough more than one and a half thousand school teachers. It is clear that mainly in the countryside, far from the resorts. In the whole country, the shortage of such specialists is about 14 thousand. What guest workers compensate for this shortfall? And with what knowledge does a person come out of school in a big life, where one teacher teaches Russian, physics, and singing?

I personally at one time studied in such a rural school. We must pay tribute to both the federal and regional authorities. The federal program “Zemsky Teacher” has appeared, which, among other “gingerbreads,” provides for 1 million rubles of financial assistance for teachers moving to the countryside.


Photo: st-vedomosti.ru

In some areas, local authorities are also throwing something else. Moreover, sane governors and deputies of legislative assemblies come up with their own programs to attract and support specialists. For example, in the Perm Territory, the Mobile Teacher program was launched: they give the teacher a car, and he goes around the day with lessons from several schools in the district.

Truth in salary


This is all really good and right. But let's face it. Pedagogical institutes in our country have always been above the roof. And now too. But at least half of the graduates have never worked in their specialty. In Soviet times, there was an obligation - after the university work for three years and do not sin.

Independent Russia has long ceased to exist. And to this day, many children go to pedagogical institutes as the most affordable ones in order to get a crust on higher education. And crusts, they say, to this day magically act on some employers. It seems that it’s time to do something fundamentally with teacher education. And with the teaching profession, or rather, with its low status, everything is already obvious. The truth is in salary.

Let's just compare some numbers. According to Rosstat, the average monthly accrued salary in the economy as a whole in November last year (more recent data are only indicative) amounted to 46285 rubles. We emphasize: accrued salary. Subtract the cherished 13% of income tax. Next, we look at the table of the same Rosstat for teachers. The average for the country in 2019 was 41116 rubles. Well, very average.

We will not take into account the climate-evil regions such as the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, where the average teacher's salary is 100522 rubles. There is a kilogram of potatoes worth its weight in gold, for which the northern allowances were invented. Take Central Russia. The highest teacher salaries in Moscow are an average of 97595 rubles. In St. Petersburg - 56810 rubles. And in the neighboring Pskov region, already half as much - 26412. Not far from all senses is the Ivanovo region - 24679. The teachers in Kabardino-Balkaria receive the least amount - 22534 rubles. And in the aforementioned Krasnodar Territory - 32209. (Do not forget to deduct income tax.)

Question: in Ivanovo and St. Petersburg, children and teachers from different tests? With different mental abilities? Do they have different programs and loads? It’s obvious to me: as long as such discrimination on the basis of geography remains in one profession, we will never avoid personnel failures.

From FZU - to space


Ministry of Education not so long ago pleased good news: The popularity of working specialties is growing. More and more ninth-graders are going to secondary vocational education institutions. Already more than 50%. And that's great! Finally, the boom of obtaining not even a higher education, but crusts about it, even though the most shabby school, ends.


Perhaps people are beginning to realize that it is better to be a cool turner than a useless lawyer. By the way, I remind you that Yuri Gagarin received his first professional education at the Federal State Educational Institution (factory school). Then the vocational schools replaced the FZU, and today it is called the beautiful foreign word "college".


Photo: USTU

The new Minister of Education, Sergey Kravtsov (pictured), says that now college graduates earn very well, even in the first year after graduation: an average of 24,5 thousand rubles a month. Chukotka is again ahead of the whole country - there the earnings of graduates in the first year of work in the specialty is 51,5 thousand rubles. In the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug - 51,3 thousand. In Moscow and St. Petersburg - from 31 to 35 thousand.

As for industries, the highest salaries are for beginners in vocational education in the high-tech sector and the mining industry, which is not surprising. The size of these salaries is amazing. According to the Ministry of Education, it looks like this. In air navigation and operation aviation and rocket and space technology - an average of 92,2 thousand rubles per month, in shipbuilding and water transport - 39,6 thousand rubles, in oil and gas business and geodesy - 36,5 thousand.

Already breathtaking. After all, these are the salaries of youths without work experience. Something tells me what is in these statistics, to put it mildly, a certain share of cunning. Firstly, for high-tech industries there are special colleges to which not everyone is open. Secondly, this is a piece of goods, a lot of them are not required.

Well, let's see the offers on well-known job search sites and workers (Job.ru, Job.ru, HeandHunter). That is, this is what employers really offer to applicants, and not what ministers report to the president. Pilot (novice specialists) - 76 thousand rubles, air traffic controller - 57 thousand, engineer in the aerospace industry - 38 thousand. And where should the poor aviation engineer go after such messages from the Ministry of Education? Only to college. In any case, the working specialty is very much in demand today and is often paid higher than the specialty of higher education.


Tolerate and wait


During the first year after graduation, only 62% of college graduates are employed. But the Ministry of Education and this is considered a great achievement. Moreover, over the year this figure has grown by as much as one and a half percent. But have mercy, what are we proud of? This is only about half. And it is still unknown whether these people worked in their specialty for at least three months.

What can this state of affairs talk about? Either worthless workers who no one needs are leaving the schools, or the local authorities do not analyze the labor market, and as a result, overproduction of some specialists and a shortage of others are created.

By the way, one such old and wise leader in the field of secondary specialized education told me about such a development of events back in 2002, following a census. Not only told me. But they did not hear him. Another reason is that parents try to push a bad child at least somewhere, so that they do not hang around the porches and get a secondary education just in case, "and we'll see."


In fact, all of these factors exist simultaneously. It is gratifying that authorities at the highest level have finally taken care of this. On February 7, the problems of secondary vocational education were discussed at a joint meeting of the State Council and the Presidential Council on Science and Education. It was, in particular, that in many cases the college programs did not meet the real requirements of the modern economy.

As a result, the Ministry of Education was instructed to analyze them and create a methodological basis for their updating. Excellent. It is a pity that they guessed about it just now. We always, and in Soviet times, too, vocational education in many industries, including higher education, lagged behind real production.

There is one more good news: within the framework of the national project "Education", 2024 billion rubles will be allocated for material and technical support and updating the infrastructure of colleges until 55. It would be nice if this money was spent not only on painting walls.
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  1. +30
    11 February 2020 06: 25
    The new Minister of Education, Sergei Kravtsov (pictured), says that now college graduates earn very well, even in the first year after graduation: an average of 24,5 thousand rubles a month.
    we have a strange system of appointment to ministers ... that is not a minister - "song"! in the country, apparently these are the smartest ... the rest are already with certificates ...
    1. +52
      11 February 2020 06: 46
      Beggarly salaries in Russia, which no one is going to raise, is the root of everything. Moreover, instead of raising them, everything is done paradoxically, but on the contrary, for example, now, in all seriousness, they are discussing lowering the minimum wage to a value lower than the already deceitful "living wage", that is, in fact, to 10000 rubles. Moreover, in order to hide all the delusional and criminality of such a decrease, they called it "optimization in conditions of decreasing inflation." That is, people in Russia are mostly beggars, purchasing demand in the country has fallen below the baseboard and because of this, inflation has decreased (no one buys anything, they save on everything they can), and the government and legislators - let's add some more gasoline "- we will also reduce the salaries of people. After all, everyone knows perfectly well that the so-called "employers" are guided by the minimum wage. In addition, in order not to embarrass themselves in front of the whole world by the size of the existing and planned Russian minimum wage in the amount of USD 145-135, it was decided to call it not "minimum wage", but some kind of "unit".
      1. +19
        11 February 2020 06: 51
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        After all, everyone knows very well that the so-called "employers" are guided by the minimum wage.

        absolutely rightly said.
        1. +16
          11 February 2020 07: 48
          It’s good that I’m retired, and if I’m working now, then for pennies .. Normally people don’t pay now, so they have enough for a living, so as not to get into credit bondage ....
          1. +23
            11 February 2020 07: 49
            Quote: DMB 75
            It’s good that I’m retired, and if I’m working now, then for pennies .. Normally people don’t pay now, so they have enough for a living, so as not to get into credit bondage ....

            I am also retired, but I have to work, not live for 12 thousand ...
            1. +29
              11 February 2020 09: 20
              New Minister of Education Sergei Kravtsov (pictured) says college graduates are now make very good money, even in the first year after graduation: average 24,5 thousand rubles a month.

              Interestingly, if the minister himself were paid 24 thousand a month, he would also think that he earns very well?

              How much hypocrisy is there for those in power! Even those who are forced to voice this laugh at their beggarly mercy and insignificant additions:

              1. -24
                11 February 2020 10: 45
                The social dependency virus is very dangerous! Especially at a young age - you can get sick until old age.
                1. +25
                  11 February 2020 10: 55
                  Quote: Victor N
                  Virus social dependency very dangerous!

                  Are you talking about small salaries or about social benefits for beneficiaries (veterans and disabled people from the video)?

                  You are just as cynical as this unfortunate minister, Sergey Kravtsov. And I think - where do such ministers come from!
                  1. +11
                    11 February 2020 17: 18
                    The social dependency virus is very dangerous! Especially at a young age - you can get sick until old age.

                    For some reason, the Scandinavians and the Swiss do not think so. The latter have recently given up the guaranteed 2,2 thousand euros (~ 150 thousand "wooden") "for dependency" per month, because they earn more. Obviously, they "completely rotted" there, in the "hated" West.
                    You are just as cynical as this unfortunate minister, Sergey Kravtsov. And I think - where do such ministers come from!

                    It’s just for such “dependents” in their positions that the “state” does not feel sorry for anything. And everything is not enough for them, so they, as befits a parasite, decided to "eat up" the already poor.
                  2. 0
                    12 February 2020 14: 46
                    Social dependency takes place - like it or not. This is when "I want to get", not "I want to earn". This is also called a freebie. Social payments to preferential categories are different, they are assistance, which is provided based on the capabilities of the state.
                2. +1
                  12 February 2020 06: 57
                  The virus (and its proliferation) of taking money from citizens in the form of taxes, levies, fees is very dangerous.
                  Insolence virus so-called employers unsupported by their beloved state are very dangerous.
                  The virus of almost universal apathy (just not a non-commercial war and “just bynemaidan”) is very dangerous.
              2. +26
                11 February 2020 11: 55
                Quote: Stas157
                How much hypocrisy is there for those in power!

                “We are now reigning with revelry, an orgy of all kinds of festivities, solemn gatherings, anniversaries, unveiling of monuments, etc. Tens and hundreds of thousands of rubles are poured into these“ cases. ”Anniversaries of all kinds and hunters before celebrations, we have such a lot, willingness to celebrate six-month, annual, two-year, etc. anniversaries are so stunning that it takes tens of millions of rubles of money to satisfy the demand. "

                “When a spy or a traitor is caught, the indignation of the public knows no bounds, it demands execution. And when a thief is wielding in front of everyone, plundering state property, the surrounding public is limited to good-natured chuckles and a pat on the shoulder. and undermining the interests of the national economy is the same spy and traitor, if not worse. "

                All this was said by I.V. Stalin. How much time has passed since then, and officials have not changed.
            2. +6
              11 February 2020 09: 20
              lucky for you, I threw the USSR experience and now 10 000
            3. -20
              11 February 2020 09: 49
              Who did you work for getting twelve pensions? My cousin has just retired, ahead of schedule at 55, works as a locomotive driver, pension is 21.
              1. +4
                11 February 2020 16: 28
                My mother was a labor veteran (there was a GP of the RF Ministry of Defense) - a pension of 12 p. for 000 years they threw 7 rubles.
              2. 0
                12 February 2020 06: 59
                But what is it that this is one of the highest paid professions? Accordingly, the pension ...
              3. 0
                12 February 2020 17: 40
                What does it matter? Your cousin, having retired, receives miserable pennies in comparison with what they received for such work in the USSR.
          2. -19
            11 February 2020 09: 02
            They climb into "credit bondage" not out of despair, but at the call of the soul (otherwise, because of a headache). Subjective feelings from life experience. After all, you can wait with Wishlist until you accumulate the necessary funds.
            1. +18
              11 February 2020 10: 03
              The operation may not wait. According to the quota, I entered the line in June, was appointed in February, and they didn’t do it, the city did not allocate quotas. This is not critical for me yet, but what should I do for those who were expecting heart surgery? They won’t really wait. Wishlist on phones / televisions / cars fit into your formula, yes. You can wait. And if you have a family with a child, live in a communal apartment or with parents? Mortgage is also from hopelessness. There are a lot of options when you need money and especially not wait.
              1. -23
                11 February 2020 10: 49
                Decided to take a loan - answer, but do not blame anyone for this. It's disgusting!
            2. +24
              11 February 2020 11: 20
              Quote: Victor N
              They climb into "credit bondage" not out of hopelessnessand at the call of the soul

              Credit is taken by those who do not have enough money. A loan bondage suit banks with the economic bloc of the government. The population of Russia is extremely credited. And this is not at all accidental. Salaries are small, loans (interest on them, unlike other countries) - bonded.

              Quote: Victor N
              Decided to take a loan - answer, but do not blame anyone for this. Disgusting!

              The total the debt load of the population and, accordingly, low demand (low purchasing power) is an economic disease of the country as a whole. And innocent ordinary people, naively putting on a credit yoke, are guilty of it.
              1. -9
                11 February 2020 16: 02
                In other countries, primarily in "developed" countries, the population's debt load is much higher than in Russia. This is a symptom of a "consumer society" and not a merit of any government.
                1. +13
                  11 February 2020 16: 18
                  Quote: Victor N
                  In other countries, primarily in "developed" countries, the population's debt load is much higher than in Russia.

                  And the ability to service debts? What about the salary? And the interest on the loan? All this is far from a civilized society.

                  There, the loan is more like an installment plan - how much you took, almost as much you gave. And we took an apartment in a mortgage, and paid for two! And on demand loans interest is generally ugly. This is called credit bondage. But the population has no choice, as such. If you want to get something, but there is no money, go into bondage.
                2. +1
                  11 February 2020 17: 52
                  Quote: Victor N
                  the debt load of the population is much higher than in Russia

                  There the interest on the loan is much less
                3. -2
                  12 February 2020 07: 01
                  Yes, but they have lower rates and loans not from hopelessness, but for something necessary - at least housing.
              2. -5
                11 February 2020 16: 31
                Loans are mainly taken by those whose Wishlist prevailed on opportunities. How many of those who eat little blackberries with salt, but ride a BMW?
            3. +3
              11 February 2020 16: 36
              Quote: Victor N
              They climb into "credit bondage" not out of despair, but at the call of the soul (otherwise, because of a headache). Subjective feelings from life experience. After all, you can wait with Wishlist until the accumulation of the necessary funds.

              about accumulate:
              I remember how we went to buy a Volga 105e, "I say to the manager - cache (c) M. Zadornov, and he told me about a preferential loan + we will put a radio tape recorder, rugs, another battery (there was 55 - we will put 62) ", as a result, the cars were without everything, for that in the store 300 meters from the salon everything was cheaper 3 times, and through a loan it would be XNUMX times more expensive ...
            4. +4
              11 February 2020 18: 13
              Quote: Victor N
              After all, you can wait with Wishlist until the accumulation of the necessary funds.

              Do you live in non-rubber? Or another island of well-being? Visit an ordinary city, well Vladimir say. At each stop, migrant loans and others. Give 2-3 thousand, for a period of 1-2 weeks, to return 1.5 more.
              They take money to "buy devour". Yes, lunch and dinner is a luxury. These Wishlist can be postponed for a month or two.
            5. +2
              12 February 2020 17: 55
              Why should a working person postpone his life for later if the so-called s / n head of a certain state corporation had enough to pay a decent pension to pensioners, for example, Yaroslavl. To everyone. Why did the minister and the USSR receive only three times as much turner in the mailbox?
        2. +3
          12 February 2020 21: 36
          RUSSIAN LEADERS PR for the whole country !!! Instead of obliging our minister of ideology to talk about the workers and how they work .... well, and so on. Not about those shorter today, we sing advertising songs.
      2. +23
        11 February 2020 08: 31
        Slowly it begins to reach that at least specialists have to pay. The province has a catastrophic shortage of specialists and workers. 5-10 years and another generation will retire. Now all small enterprises are holding onto this generation. Because they know the equipment and support it, albeit in emergency but operational condition. There is no youth to replace. And those who come gain experience and leave. The bulk of the workers do not KNOW the equipment, because the low payload and fluidity. The best ones always leave first, either moved, or shift. Soon, the plants will start to stand up simply because there is no one to work and repair on them. The number of accidents and accidents is increasing. I am silent about the culture of production. In the provinces, we are worse than the Chinese that we recently laughed at.
        We have built a new workshop. I’ll keep silent how and from what it was built, believe me it’s better not to see it. An electrician is not something that cannot connect the POWER part of the frequency converter, although there is a circuit directly on it, they can not power the electrical cabinet correctly (they will not connect 0, they confuse 0 with the ground). Zp believe above average in a new workshop. The staff constantly breaks something, it breaks, they do not know the equipment on which they work, there is no one to teach them, but they themselves will not.
        I remember 5 years ago they still liked to say that there was a crowd in my place. Now they scare that he would not quit.
        1. +4
          11 February 2020 09: 53
          It’s hard to find an intelligent specialist. And they know their worth. I tried to find a person to set up woodworking equipment. Found it, but he won the price for his work! Where are you going, I had to agree.
        2. +13
          11 February 2020 12: 01
          10 years ago I graduated from college with a degree in Instrumentation and Instrumentation. So something like I found work as a fitter for 12000 rubles. So, as soon as I graduated, I thought that I would be in demand as my diploma is pretty good. Besides, I entered NSTU which I dropped out. I didn’t quit because I didn’t want to. I just came to the conclusion that my education is not necessary at all. Half of my group worked as someone in the store who was a chauffeur, so they were getting 25000 - 30000 rubles at that moment when I received 12000 rubles from my working profession. At that time, they already trusted me with equipment that cost a lot of money. Say the same heat meter which includes flow measures, pressure transmitters, temperature, heat calculator. Or the very same chastotniks about which you wrote (that it’s difficult to connect there, I didn’t understand directly, maybe with the peculiarity of controlling the chastotnik). So I worked on such a salary exactly until the moment when the boiler house alone in our city did not get up due to the fact that there were no Kipovtsev. But I still raised the RFP to 25000 rubles after the discharge was increased and added for professionalism. And I have been working as an automation engineer at another enterprise for a year now, as a result, I have to not only write pieces of paper, but also often work with my hands. That is not long ago connected three air handling units and four exhaust. He worked with his hands, as they say, since electricians are not Kipovtsi, I was convinced myself personally. After all, they did not know the features of the sensors and the principles of their operation, for example, valve control, discrete or analog. In general, I have a lot of work there, since a lot of things will need to be transferred for myself, so that it works, and I just went about my business. Well, or slept like at a previous job, and only did something on a call. For this I love automation :). The result is the following, ten years after our graduation from thirty people, only three second work now in a pile, our school is now called a college and does not teach Kipovites. And another thing pleases me that my salary is now equal to the salary of the seller in the store. Only he has a miserable responsibility in comparison with my responsibility and qualifications. Draw conclusions whether we need workers or not, I think not.
          1. +4
            11 February 2020 13: 10
            Well, about the salary, I advise you to bargain. So I raised my salary 2 times, worked for six months and showed myself to assemble and study new equipment (it came with me, tape dispensers on controllers). Due to the low "culture of production", but rather its complete absence, and not understanding, and even the desire to understand the principles of the new equipment has become very much in demand. The magic statement and the salary were raised. Now, if I look like and ask to raise, they raise (I will not be too impudent) in silence. + design part, programming plc self-created automation on several lines. Over the past year, the plant has saved at least a couple of Llamas. And there is not much work outside the gates, but there is. Again design, programming, commissioning. What LLCs do for lam + I do 10 times cheaper just without installation. Yes, it just happens to configure the inverter.
          2. 0
            11 February 2020 16: 43
            Quote: ruivit1988
            But I still raised the RFP to 25000 rubles after the discharge was increased and added for professionalism.

            no one has canceled the bit grid, and the discharge consists of several factors ...
          3. +10
            11 February 2020 16: 54
            The profession of instrumentation and automation is complex and requires a desire to delve into and think, and at the top, if you miss it, nothing will work. Therefore, many are not given to be a KIP member at all. But the management equated "brain equipment management" with routine maintenance and humiliated it! not only salary, but also the desire to work and conscientiously maintain equipment that fails without proper maintenance more often than accountants and managers assume. They are not given to understand the operation and adjustment because any "cook" can be an accountant, and any "son" can also be a commanding officer (without understanding the essence): it is not difficult to yell. It is difficult to be a professional with those who, apart from money, have nothing useful in their heads. It's such a time that the economy has come. But even this will pass .. The smartest, inventive, trained, experienced and quick-witted in technical means will survive and will be able to find their application: someone will always need to adjust and adjust, adapt to operation .. Professionally worked after college in production for more than 25 years and was always in demand in professional circles, but young managers-managers with a foreign education came and decided that a woman could not have such a profession and was fired .. In Gazprom, as soon as the age approached, they replaced the "son" and .. he destroyed the whole branch. And they thought it would be easy to replace and the old people have a road only to the churchyard - this is after 40-45 years. So now they are scratching their turnips. You can only learn and transfer experience from old professionals, and theory does not work in practice - you need experience in production and operation. This is a long period and can only be quickly dismissed, and experience and technical intuition cannot be replaced. Therefore, they cannot find specialists: the experienced ones were dispersed, but theorists cannot cope with reality!
            1. 0
              11 February 2020 17: 38
              Quote: ANNA1968
              The profession of instrumentation and automation is complex and requires a desire to delve into and think, and if nothing is grabbed at the top.

              Instrumentation is not far from the ACS, in principle it is practically the same by the last letter of instrumentationА...
            2. +1
              12 February 2020 10: 18
              The profession of instrumentation and automation is complex and requires a desire to delve into and think, and if nothing is grabbed at the top.
              I completely agree with you that in order to work as a Kipovite you need to know the power of attorney of the equipment from the features of the work, and you still need to know the production itself, including the nuances of this production itself. Since automation carries out this very production, and there is still such a moment. As measuring instruments, which are also included in this very production. There are all kinds of measuring instruments, there are whimsical or less whimsical, and when setting up automation, this must be taken into account. And here in a year or two you can hardly even find out all this at an enterprise where it would seem that there are not so many automation and instrumentation. Managers and commerce also do not know such a nuance that not everything is recorded on the scheme, there is also the fact that the local old-timer remembers it. And this old-timer gives all these nuances to his young successor whom he wants or does not want but nevertheless teaches him. And it would take a lot of time and money to grow a competent electrician, a technician or other specialist, even an intelligent young guy. Well, our gifted employers will not understand how to prepare a competent locksmith is much more difficult than a sales manager.
          4. +1
            11 February 2020 23: 00
            After all, they did not know the features

            Buy at the expense of the enterprise your electricians professional books and textbooks suitable for the equipment of the enterprise and make them a professional mini-library. Rack and systematically encourage them to read and practice a little formally and informally. After a year or two, the situation will basically improve. I saw such a reception in one laboratory where the necessary literature was bought and put on shelves for many decades.
            1. 0
              12 February 2020 10: 02
              What for? In the first installations there were only five, only three were mounted. It’s unlikely that I’ll need to install a bunch of installations, my knowledge is really enough. Of course, electricians will read the same books, but then again, why when they service not a lot of equipment and a bunch of sockets with bulbs. After all, we serve buildings and not production.
              1. 0
                12 February 2020 19: 49
                It’s hardly necessary to install a bunch of installations

                You don’t need to install it, but you need to maintain it, it is possible to partially repair it - therefore, specific books are needed specifically for the maintenance and repair of such installations and networks of buildings, printouts of service manuals from the manufacturer, and one extremely abstruse theoretical textbook on the basics - to refer to it in highly non-standard situations. In general, it makes sense to raise the reporting and accounting documents and find out statistically what most often breaks with serious consequences and what mistakes cost the most — and with this in mind, to equip the library in the duty room with books, printouts of norms (including on electrical safety and safety), technical manuals and reference books. People change, their level is different, and a book at work on a shelf costs dozens of years and is actively used: in that lab, many actively used and repeatedly repaired reference books and fundamental Talmud books were 30-50 years old and looked like they were from decades of use all this time the elephants chewed intensely, and their young replenishment stood nearby.
                1. 0
                  12 February 2020 21: 05
                  I remember with us the power engineer sometimes read a textbook on TOE. Retired by age. He said that something must be remembered.
        3. +18
          11 February 2020 12: 31
          I have a friend friend (55 years old) who worked several years ago as a foreman in production. Workers were local men. Work on metal cutting machines. They worked, they themselves were serviced and repaired. They asked the employer for a small increase in salary. What they got the answer to - yes, instead of you, I’ll better type Uzbeks. The men quit. The Uzbeks came. As a result, these already worn-out machines had to be repaired by my friend for the Uzbeks, plus other duties of the master. Uzbeks have a salary of 38 rubles for work of 000-12 hours (he closed the orders for them himself), and a friend has 14 rubles for a workday of 22-000 hours. with one day off. My friend went to the owner of the production and asked to increase his salary to 10 p. to which he received an answer - there is no money (but he changes the car - Mercedes is not a Mercedes, Lexus is not a Lexus) and in general, you don’t follow the Uzbeks. You see, they are persecuting marriage, there are mass complaints, and where are you looking? My friend freaked out and threw a statement for calculation with the words: now you will repair the machines and watch your Uzbeks. And now a highly qualified specialist works as a janitor. It works from 11 am. At 30 o’clock already at home. Together with a colleague we took 000 plots plus some scallops. It turns out somewhere 6 rubles. There was more free time and most importantly no hassle. But this is not the end of the story. After some time, this leader calls my friend asking them to return and, so be it, to the required salary. Apparently it dawned on him or at the labor exchange they explained to him that everything had ended - the adjusters. Well, my friend before sending the businessman one more time, explained to him that there was no desire whatsoever for working for 12 hours headlong in oil, repairing dead machines for the Uzbeks. So come on - bye. Look for fools elsewhere! If you find now.
          1. +10
            11 February 2020 14: 56
            You're right. This is how they destroy our local professionals as a class, who have nowhere to go and have nothing to go, and wherever they can throw everything they have acquired. And the newcomers - shit, broke and piled - they do not answer, no one asks them. The bosses and "masters" do not want to see anything ahead, but "take away" the money here and now, then leave and scatter the stolen from us for entertainment and fatten at our expense. "Masters of life" are also like migrant workers: they are not responsible to anyone for anything and take everything for themselves to have enough for them. They do not care at all about production and technical problems, the pitiful remnants of funds, which will not be enough either for the development of production, or for equipment and normal high-quality consumables. And s / n ... They conspired because communicate in "their own circle" and likewise level everyone working for them to a minuscule level so that we do not forget "our place". This policy has taken root since the 90s and is supported at the state level, and I wonder how in general something works in the Russian Federation and someone produces ... In large cities, all production under the slogan of ecology has closed all enterprises and ruined those who worked normally ... And the ecology in cities has greatly deteriorated because everyone travels by private transport, because the public does not go to "tmutarakan" - this is where the newly established and temporarily living production is located. Indeed, in the USSR, work was within walking distance and only a few went to work. Now you have to go to any job. Environmentalists have placed endless shopping centers and entertainment around the house. Nobody thinks about the fact that people need to live and earn money, because officials and bosses do not earn and simply assign themselves a salary of hundreds of thousands or a million a month. The authorities scatter the available money and spend on demonstration events and "dust" for reports to Moscow, and from there they do not want to see the real state of affairs. They don't care about us ...
          2. +10
            11 February 2020 17: 22
            Quote: musketone64
            I have a friend friend (55 years old) who worked several years ago as a foreman in production.

            Quote: musketone64
            Uzbeks came.

            Quote: musketone64
            My friend went to the owner of the production and asked to increase his salary to 30 p. what I got the answer - no money

            The story is like this, they made a broom at the furniture workshop, put up a substation SIEMENS (I personally put and glued the Russian translation on the tape below the sensors and automatic machines) the customer was advised by a specialist living a kilometer from the object (work there a couple of times a week to come and monitor it, and you can do this even through the Internet), the result is the main Tajik power engineer.
            The substation burned down, they picked me up at night - I come, it turns out that the Tajik foreman worked as an energy specialist, he not only did not read Russian, he could not speak it, because he did not know how ...
        4. +2
          11 February 2020 16: 39
          Quote: Aingof
          An electrician is not something that cannot connect the POWER part of the frequency converter, although there is a circuit directly on it, they can not power the electrical cabinet correctly (they will not connect 0, they confuse 0 with the ground).

          This is what he ended up, confusing zero with the ground ...
          1. +4
            11 February 2020 17: 53
            Quote: PSih2097
            This is what he ended up, confusing zero with the ground ...

            A friend worked as a foreman of electricians, gave three trainees from the college, or as they now call the former technical schools. So they did not distinguish power from voltage. "What's the power here? 220 volts!" This is after three courses. Moreover, they asked whether it was possible to get the 4th grade after practice. fool
            1. +5
              11 February 2020 17: 56
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              they gave three interns from college, or what I now call former technical schools.

              I have two graduate students at a technical school of electronic devices in a junction box that worked ... I ask - are you color blind guys? How can I solder 16X5 by dissolving zero with phase?
      3. +8
        11 February 2020 08: 51
        Poverty salaries in Russia, which no one is going to raise, is the root of everything.

        Why do the goyim have money? They do not know how to spend them))) (sarcasm)
      4. +13
        11 February 2020 09: 52
        [/ quote] Poverty salaries in Russia, which no one is going to raise, is the root of everything. Moreover, instead of increasing them, everything is done paradoxically, but vice versa, for example [quote]

        For example, they recently trumpeted about a salary increase for state employees by as much as 4%. I asked my wife, where is "milen"? Answers: I was raised by 127 rubles (one hundred twenty seven), and the beginning. department for 14 rubles (fourteen). We laughed together. The salaries were increased, and the allowances (incentive) were removed. The budget for the year was drawn up long ago, the wage fund remained the same. At the exit, the same remained.
        Well, now let’s heal!
      5. +19
        11 February 2020 10: 10
        Imagine a 65 year old truck driver carrying 40 tons of cargo at a speed of 60 km / h on public roads ??? Aren't you scared yet?
        1. -7
          11 February 2020 10: 53
          Fearfully. Do you offer age qualifications?
          1. +19
            11 February 2020 10: 58
            I propose to raise the retirement age to 100 years)
            1. +2
              11 February 2020 16: 05
              May God give you health and many years of life!
        2. -4
          11 February 2020 17: 40
          There is a medical board - it is up to her. The pilot, if health is openwork, can fly up to 65 years.
          1. +6
            11 February 2020 18: 42
            Do you know a lot of people in 65 with health in lace?
            1. -1
              11 February 2020 18: 47
              Even among his relatives decently. My grandfather was uprooted because of the helm, then another 65 years in the ground, my grandmother operated on until 10, my mother worked until 75.
              1. +2
                11 February 2020 21: 39
                Andrei, the main question is, from need or at will?
              2. +4
                11 February 2020 21: 57
                With such advances to you in the PFR advertising
                1. -1
                  11 February 2020 21: 59
                  I am very sorry that you are a burden to work. Personally, it was a tragedy for me when I was expelled from aviation to retire for health reasons at the age of 50.
                  1. +6
                    11 February 2020 22: 06
                    I kind of never said that it’s a burden for me to work, it’s just that the work is different, someone sits exactly on the priest and someone works in the mine or at the construction site and how people will do it, and who needs them at age 60 is the question
                    1. +2
                      11 February 2020 22: 11
                      If you are special, pros, then you will be in demand at any age. Last year, he hired a man with golden hands and the same head. 67 years old. I'd rather hire an old professional than a young bedman.
                      1. +3
                        12 February 2020 19: 41
                        Well, first of all, your case is an isolated one. Most of your brother wants to get rid of the elderly, also in connection with the draconian, completely ignorant of the realities, the law prohibiting the dismissal of pre-retirees. Secondly, it is necessary to make a future specialist from a coekaker. It's the same with golden hands and a different head ... you understand. In general, the economics of the pipe do not need specialists very much. Narrow, very, specialized are needed. Leave Putin and Co., replacing them "makaroshki" in the war will not be played. And then they will have to say goodbye to high-tech industries and personnel. We were already at this brink, after the counter-revolution and until the early 2000s, effective managers at the helm - a take two will provide. Russia is a solid buy and sell. Sell, but soon there will be no one.
      6. +7
        11 February 2020 10: 18
        The poverty of wide sections of the population greatly limits the domestic market and prevents the development of their own industry in particular and the economy in general.
        A small handful of large and medium-sized owners are not able to provide the necessary volume of consumption. Therefore, the basic principle of expanding the domestic market is to improve the living standards of the poorest segments of the population.
        Of course, the domestic market is not a panacea for all ills, but its expansion for Russia is the only chance to develop its industry. In Russia today, the economy is of a colonial type. We extract raw materials and sell it to Europe, Asia, from where industrial goods come to us.
        This is a sad fact, and the army of the poor cannot be satisfied with their position, which undermines the state principles with their distrust, if not open protest.
        1. -19
          11 February 2020 11: 06
          How do you imagine "raising the living standards of the poorest strata"? What, give out money? To assign a pension on the fact of poverty, since a college graduate did not want to go to work? From your taxes? Can make the neighbor pay too?
          In the old days, those who could not earn in force majeure went to fight. And they always thanked for alms. Those who scolded the donor were no longer served. And they died out. The grateful and hard workers survived. Freeloaders and then did not favor.
          1. +4
            11 February 2020 18: 56
            Quote: Victor N
            In the old days, those who couldn’t earn in force majeure went to fight

            Do you remember this before the revolution? And how did it end? If the state does not give a shit about the people, then the people do not give a shit about the state
            1. -3
              12 February 2020 07: 51
              Rough! What for? Not everyone appeared only after the revolution. My ancestors lived and lived before. Not extinct.
      7. +4
        11 February 2020 18: 11
        But what to expect from the comprador authorities? Low salaries, low costs for exporters. For them, people are just a resource, and Russia is a plot for cutting dough. "Chopped", and beyond the cordon, where they have accounts, villas, yachts.
      8. +2
        13 February 2020 01: 28
        There is no money, but we hold on to the spite of the bears.
    2. +4
      11 February 2020 09: 16
      Capitalism. Even the birth of children was financed. Soon, loans for the supermarket will be issued. About s \ pl generally keep quiet. They are already trying to introduce PLANNED Scheduling, what's this? Crossing Marxism with Capitalism? It never happens and has never happened. Only FEEDBACK. What he is trying to do is GDP with the people. Yes, it does not work out - "falls asleep." Once a year is a parody (like there is) on FEEDBACK. It must be continuous. And deeper, they will not give, because the income of CAPITAL will decrease. This is how Will-maneuvering tudysyuda. And the people's control, how is the opposition to snickering CPSU not?
      1. +5
        11 February 2020 13: 43
        Capitalism. They even credited the birth of children. Soon loans to the supermarket will be issued. About s \ pl generally keep quiet.


        As I read the comments and think that this you have little to do with capitalism. You invented "feudal" capitalism for a campaign ...
        1. +3
          11 February 2020 18: 19
          Quite right. The meaning of capitalism is in increasing capital, which is not observed in Russia. Its total destruction takes place. A striking example is the "national treasure" Gazprom. For ten years, its capitalization has decreased ten (!!!) times. Entire industries have been destroyed. Instead, shopping malls and office buildings were built.
    3. +9
      11 February 2020 14: 42
      Grandfather (Grandfather Old)
      .... we have a strange system of appointment to ministers ... that is not a minister - "song"! in the country, apparently these are the smartest ... the rest are already with certificates ...
      Here, in the network I found:
    4. -1
      11 February 2020 18: 22
      Zp in the country SHOULD start from 1 thousand dollars and it does not matter how much it is in rubles. It is this kind of RFP that provides the purchasing power and movement in the economy .. What is the pay-off ratio for so much? On a watch in large projects such as Yamal-Sabbet, SS (Power of Siberia) Crimean bridge .. And I remembered in Antarctica for an ANNUAL shift at -70-80 degrees at 70tys \ r per month .. Tales that in Moscow pay from 100tysch leave. .50k rubles for 6 \ 1 for 10-12 hours .. A terrible situation with Gaster, in addition to the lowest level of specialties where Tajiks, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, there is a problem of the middle segment, which just competes with the indigenous population of Russia, these are not brothers from 404 and the bulband and this is really A BIG problem .. for example, in Japan there are no migrant workers, in principle, on any special societies because, by law, an employer must pay a double salary to one Gaster to a second state .. Only highly qualified piece specialists .. In my opinion, we have a problem big hat is the main one, no one believes in long-term stability, because tomorrow everything can go to dust after the next bailout of the Central Bank and the government, or they can take everything, these same people .. That's why everything is squeezed out without leaving anything to the distant sweat .. How many crises are we survived over the past 25 years? Such shocks would kill any other state, but we are still fluttering. BUT the safety margin is not eternal and we have come close to its limit, and if we had rolled back due to the potential that the USSR had left, now this stock is left in both material and human resources .. We are on the edge of the abyss.
      What to do? The steps have begun, albeit miserable but correct, to change the constitution by returning the Central Bank to the country, as well as the priority of its right over the international .. It is after this that it will be possible to restore order with Gaster and organize many other processes .. For from the international point of view, the legality of these decisions will be in question. Over the past 10 years, much has been done in defense capability, you will not scare anyone with a mess on the outskirts of the country, there are forces and means to stop this at the root, and any neighbors somehow have no time for hitting .. Therefore, it is time to deal with the domestic economy ..
      1. 0
        11 February 2020 21: 42
        I generally agree .. Clarify about the Central Bank - how and where it is returned, please ..
        1. -1
          11 February 2020 21: 48
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          I generally agree .. Clarify about the Central Bank - how and where it is returned, please ..

          The referendum on amendments to the constitution .. That is the fundamental problem in the return of the Central Bank to their homeland ..
          1. +2
            11 February 2020 21: 54
            Sorry, Maxim, I didn’t understand) at first I thought that you were saying that there is nothing in the project today about the return of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation .. unfortunately, there’s nothing about the Central Bank .. then not in general, but I completely agree with you
  2. +25
    11 February 2020 06: 29
    the problem is really not in personnel shortages .. but in those salaries that employers offer! they are just penny .. people can’t feed their family on them!
    1. +15
      11 February 2020 07: 47
      Quote: Nitarius
      the problem is really not in personnel shortages .. but in those salaries that employers offer

      What are you talking about, our salaries are constantly growing wassat Well, they tell us from the TV feel only where is the TV and where is the reality ...
      During the first year after graduation, only 62% of college graduates are employed

      In Soviet times, 100% of graduates were employed in their specialty, unless they took a "free diploma" (as it was called, who did not want to work according to distribution).
      1. +2
        11 February 2020 10: 46
        The problem at the top is known. trust me! In vain, the GDP announced that it is necessary to raise the RFP ... only now the Central Bank has management under the USA .. and Madame Nabiulitsa must be removed! and all this tip from the IMF
    2. +13
      11 February 2020 08: 10
      Quote: Nitarius
      the problem is really not personnel shortage.

      The "original" of your avatar has already explained everything to us (your idol? And who will be after 2024? belay )
      Russia plunged into a paradox of situations when:
      - people of high professionalism and skill are in demand in production, and “college” education issues mediocrity;
      - the money of enterprises from the wage fund goes to the content of management and administration, and the direct producers are satisfied with miserable handouts consisting of a tariff rate + allowances for harmfulness and length of service + all kinds of bonuses and coefficients that occupy half of all earnings (a very peculiar form of the “whip” of the employer );
      - from every iron they only talk about the degradation of the Russian productive forces, and enterprises are created (for years) for 50 to 400 people (and in any decent shopping center it works many times more, and the return [profit] is much faster) ...
      That is why, because the country is busy selling and reselling everything and everything, in the country inflation “devours” weak compensation for the income of ordinary citizens, driving them into the position of “working beggars”.
      YOU ARE COURSE, MR. “DOUBLEUR”, THAT RUSSIA IS A COUNTRY OF WORKING POORS?
    3. -16
      11 February 2020 09: 12
      Do not frighten yourself: they feed, they do not die out. They even refuse benefits. And what do they live on? This means that there are hidden incomes that are not taken into account in the calculation of the "average salary".
    4. +3
      11 February 2020 09: 50
      it’s not only about salaries - there is a problem on both sides. On the one hand - a penniless salary, on the other - a penniless attitude to his work and business.

      There is such an opinion.
    5. +3
      11 February 2020 10: 00
      Quote: Nitarius
      the problem is really not in personnel shortages .. but in those salaries that employers offer! they are just penny .. people can’t feed their family on them!

      While in it may still be in the salary. The provinces are faced with the opposite. There is simply no one to work. You will always find no people for a shovel, but where to get technologists, electricians, mechanics, turners and a lot of other specialists. They were not released for almost 30 years. After the collapse of the USSR, a lot of specialists remained on the street. Most of these Soviet-trained people forced to work for a penny in retirement. There is practically no one to learn from the experience. For example, they bought a used gearbox for mills, to revise their names were pensioners who worked here and know how to do it. There are no such specialists at the plant, I am silent about electronics. We opened 5 engineers and 8 locksmiths vacancies in instrumentation, as a result 3 out of 5 and 2 out of 8 are employed. It turns out that instrumentation locksmiths are not taught in any "college". Surprise !!! Of course you can buy a crust, but is it necessary? How much do you need to pay here to attract specialists from the "metropolis"? Slowly it will come to the "metropolis", friends talk about the same problems. It's a question of time.
      1. 0
        11 February 2020 21: 44
        Ivan, you may smile, but there are almost no normal lawyers - everyone left for Moscow ...
    6. 0
      11 February 2020 18: 06
      But what about capital? Above wrote, a loan to the supermarket.
    7. +1
      11 February 2020 23: 57
      Quote: Nitarius
      they are just penny .. people can’t feed their family on them!

      and at the expense of what do you want to raise them? If you raise it at the factory, then the products will be uncompetitive. If in the store then the goods grow in price. The state may throw something up to budget people and even a little.
      look, a bulldozer driver at a construction site gets about 50-60. this is in construction where the price of zp is laid down in the price of the apartment. the driver of a heat and electric locomotive about 100 thousand zp is laid down in the price of tariffs. but the state does not give much to lay in defense products, you see unprofitable to buy expensive products.
  3. +7
    11 February 2020 06: 38
    What are the salaries in the tram depots and trolleybus parks? teachers are not the least paid category
    1. +5
      11 February 2020 07: 36
      Quote: Ryaruav
      What are the salaries in the tram depots and trolleybus parks?

      according to advertisements-70 for drivers, from 25 conductors .... in real life everything is sadder ...
    2. +10
      11 February 2020 08: 14
      Conductor in Kemerovo from 15 800 to 21 000 ...
      Drivers from 25 to 000 ...
  4. +19
    11 February 2020 06: 44
    Is this a problem in Russia? A new Labor Code has come into effect in Bulbyandi this year, where amendments have been made from the experience of the previous one. The highlight is that earlier labor contracts were extended for a year, a maximum of two, if you are a good and valuable specialist. Those. your fate is in the hands of the slave owner - I want to extend, I want not. Now they introduced five-year contracts, but they wrapped them up so that if you found a better job, you won’t quit. Only according to the article. And against the background of a general drop in wages, slave owners generally get ideal conditions for manipulating personnel. If they said a year ago, “Don't like it?” Quit. Now - do not like it? And first work out your contract ...
    And this is done in order to keep the outflow of personnel at meager salaries. request
    Then you want to change work, you can’t ...
    1. +14
      11 February 2020 06: 54
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Teperacha introduced five-year contracts,

      Quote: Rurikovich
      Then you want to change the job, you can’t ..

      Yes, your feudalism is progressing rather than ours ... recourse
    2. +2
      11 February 2020 08: 24
      Quote: Rurikovich
      The highlight is that earlier labor contracts were extended for a year, a maximum of two, if you are a good and valuable specialist. Those. your fate is in the hands of the slave owner - I want to extend, I want not.

      This "highlight" we tried after 2010. In the collective agreement, “diligent lawyers” and “union representatives” even introduced and approved the corresponding amendments. So, you are not the "pioneers" of the capitalist organization of labor.
      Moreover, two workers at the same enterprise: “amiable” and “let him go,” can receive completely different salaries for the same work. In the history textbook of the Soviet edition, this was well described. It seems to me that some Russian employers and officials still have “cheat sheets” from relatives from the past, as a guide to practical guidance.
      1. +3
        11 February 2020 16: 26
        In Gazprom, this is the norm: a relative will receive twice as much and no one asks him for anything - untouchables. And those who are like "nobody's" should plow for two and receive less and be responsible for everything that relatives "screwed up" and will wind up your nerves too - literally for the fact that you have to work, and they attend work.
      2. +2
        11 February 2020 19: 34
        This is also the case with us.
        For those who are especially close there are classes and "professional skills". For the same job, a "professional master" gets almost 2 times more.
    3. +9
      11 February 2020 08: 24
      Quote: Rurikovich
      five year contracts were introduced, but they were wrapped so that if you found a better job, you won’t quit

      Serfdom?
      Yuriev day every 5 years?
      1. +4
        11 February 2020 09: 10
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Rurikovich
        five year contracts were introduced, but they were wrapped so that if you found a better job, you won’t quit

        Serfdom?
        Yuriev day every 5 years?

        and holidays on holiday ...
  5. +27
    11 February 2020 06: 45
    I went to work as a turner, the enterprise of Rosatom ...
    - "well, we will pay you 25000 salaries",
    - wait, you are inviting to a salary of 35, your ad "
    - is it sometime, then maybe ...
    Harsh reality.
    1. +13
      11 February 2020 06: 57
      Quote: Peter Poroshin
      I went to work as a turner, the enterprise of Rosatom ...
      - "well, we will pay you 25000 salaries",
      - wait, you are inviting to a salary of 35, your ad "
      - is it sometime, then maybe ...
      Harsh reality.

      add to this a system of "penalties" at enterprises. to the extent that all the workplaces in the shop are delimited by lines on the semi-violated- PENALTY! (in Yoburg, on the "transformer" so), bounced to smoke-PENALTY, more than three gathered-PENALTY, and so on ... worse than on the "zone".
      1. +10
        11 February 2020 07: 45
        There is one more production "nishtyak" now the employer takes into account the employee's working time very rigidly. Entrance - exit by electronic passes, you need to leave work an hour earlier to get a tooth or go to the tax office, then write a statement. All these hours are summed up and transferred to work shifts, then these shifts are taken away from the employee's vacation.
        A year passed, and half of the number of vacation days only remained, or even less.
        And no to you at your own expense, only at the expense of vacation ...
        1. +5
          11 February 2020 08: 27
          Quote: Qwertyarion
          And no to you at your own expense, only on vacation ...

          good
          We are not alone ...
      2. +1
        11 February 2020 09: 19
        Like a capitalist ..... But then everyone will smoke 100% ....... And the output, and the quality. Who to control?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +8
      11 February 2020 07: 39
      Quote: Petr Poroshin
      I went to work as a turner, the enterprise of Rosatom ...

      and do not go ... "alternatively gifted" believe that it is easier than the lungs, and therefore the salaries of the beggars. I with the vocational school turner received the first salary in 212 rubles ... it was in the USSR.
      1. +5
        11 February 2020 08: 33
        Quote: polar fox
        "alternatively gifted" think it's easier than the lungs

        We have conducted studies on the assessment of harmful and dangerous factors at the climber’s workplace (from the GPMM basket), people who do not have permission to conduct work at heights and climb. They decided that any crank whose head is not spinning can climb the poles ... wassat
        One was not taken into account that there still needs to be done something with hands in the fresh air ...
    4. +5
      11 February 2020 10: 13
      Do you know what amused me? In St. Petersburg, there is a Siemens factory, direct German management, but the Germans are all strict, if you are taken as a worker of one specialty, then you will be it, in Russia you can be a turner / toolmaker / technologist / loader for the turner's salary, in Europe this is bad manners. But the Germans quickly realized the scheme of work, they also offered a combined specialty with the duties of 3-4 different workers and the salary of one. And laughter and sin.
  6. +13
    11 February 2020 06: 52
    "More and more ninth-graders go to institutions of secondary vocational education. Already more than 50%. And this is great! Finally, the boom of getting not even a higher education, but crumbs about it, even if even the most worn-out university, is coming to an end ..."


    Everything is much more prosaic. Many successful children with ambitions leave. According to polls, everyone avoids the USE in English. In colleges, most do not learn anything at all. These "educational organizations" regard "students" as a source of government funding and are guaranteed to issue "specialist" diplomas to almost everyone. You don't have to study in schools at all - the main thing is to "visit" them sometimes. I personally saw how they lead students in slippers to the exam, who do not understand why they are here. I was amazed when I saw the student's certificate. who read with difficulty and hardly knew how to write. The certificate is issued (not immediately) - to everyone !!! ... Who will study ?!
    1. +23
      11 February 2020 07: 04
      The meaning of learning? In a country of clan-family capitalism? where there are no social and professional lifts that take into account only knowledge and skills? My wife told me how she once shamed one truant of lessons, so he calmly explained everything to her: “I can read and write? I can! And I don’t need the rest to taxi or to insert windows in apartments or all I can’t find any, I don’t have relatives of businessmen-officials .... " Moreover, truants from wealthy families said the same practically, the same thing: "Why should I study, if mom and dad will put me in the" right "place anyway ...
      1. +5
        11 February 2020 08: 07
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        Can I read and write? I can! And the rest I don’t need to, so I don’t need to put in windows in the apartments, I still can’t find another job

        Then, in production, we look longingly at such "workers" with a complete lack of elementary knowledge and unable to do anything except to climb on the phone.
      2. -5
        11 February 2020 11: 25
        Someone said that all people are equal ..... However, loafers, ignoramuses are available. They also raise the standard of living with social support?
      3. +1
        11 February 2020 11: 49
        Here they said the same thing about the USA, only there Latinos said that he would go selling drugs on the street anyway. Capitalism, happiness, hurt yourself.
      4. +1
        11 February 2020 17: 23
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        The meaning of learning? In a country of clan-family capitalism? where there are no social and professional lifts that take into account only knowledge and skills? My wife told me how she once shamed one truant of lessons, so he calmly explained everything to her: “I can read and write? I can! And I don’t need the rest to taksovat or insert windows in apartments or other work. I can't find it anyway ...


        I respect your opinion, knowledge and life experience. hi ... But - I disagree. And there are "elevators" in the zone. There are always chances. It is not necessary to become directly "the governor of Valencia" .... Among my graduates from dense villages, every tenth was able to break into the prestigious universities of Rostov, Kazan, Moscow, etc. And they will receive good specialties in the oil industry, higher mathematics, the army, etc. Good trained brains, general knowledge, the ability to speak, write competently, self-organization - have their price. Many students have already made good acquaintances and earn money. It is believed that they will earn money for "wife, car, house".
        The remaining 90% stopped developing at the level of knowledge of the 7th grade. I did not see any hint of business among them. The usual "rural Honduras". They can work no higher than No. 3, No. 4 in the wings in a brigade of smart men and nothing more. These are really the state should weed out after the 7th grade from school.
        1. 0
          12 February 2020 20: 08
          Those. Are you for the creation of a caste-class society at the official state level?
  7. +4
    11 February 2020 07: 01
    Truth in salary

    Can someone offer something else now?
    "And I am going, and I am going for .... not everyone drove behind the fog before, but now it must be completely strange for a person to rush the truth only for romance!"
    1. +4
      11 February 2020 07: 04
      Quote: rocket757
      "And I'm going, and I'm going for.

      ... with money, only do crayfish go after the fog! ") lol
      1. +5
        11 February 2020 07: 41
        Previously, it was also "strange", but there were still enough romantics, especially from the state, the work of "romantics" was paid with dignity, if the state needed this "fog" and was useful.
        Combined business with pleasure, then it was!
        1. +4
          11 February 2020 08: 06
          Quote: rocket757
          Combined business with pleasure, then it was!

          it's true...
  8. +9
    11 February 2020 07: 15
    It seems to me that the connection between wages and the significance of this work for the country has been completely lost. I mean that the salary of a teacher or a worker at a defense plant does not compare with the salary of an accountant in the district administration or a freelance manager in a Gazprom office.
    1. +2
      11 February 2020 07: 45
      Workers with the collapse of the USSR depreciated, in the Union the worker received an order of magnitude more than an ordinary engineer or accountant. That's why everyone goes to managers.
      1. +3
        11 February 2020 22: 00
        Vladislav, is it really normal when a person who spent more years studying, is responsible for the process and hard workers, etc., receives less than they do? (I'm not talking about a high-level turner and a graduate of an engineering university on the same scale) why then study at a university?
    2. +4
      11 February 2020 08: 05
      Moreover, even those employers who would like to pay for qualifications, experience, knowledge cannot do this because of their incompetence. This is not even their fault, but a misfortune. There is no objective system for evaluating employees at all. And those attempts to create and implement it that I saw, did not cause anything but laughter and tears in me, the developers and "implementers" were just as incompetent.

      As a result, the employee's assessment is now subjective. Those. how the boss "sees". If the boss is adequate and his goal is the effective work of the unit, then the salaries of the employees are "normal". But this again has to start with the CEO.
  9. +6
    11 February 2020 07: 50
    The employment service with their vacancies is a wild profanity. I am silent about the size of benefits.
  10. +9
    11 February 2020 07: 59
    The state is certainly to blame, but why no one talks about the so-called entrepreneurs.
    You think they want to raise their employees' salaries, yeah, well, this is a way out of the comfort zone, so suck your paw. A fresh example, they raised the mole, it is necessary to raise the salary, a new agreement is being written, where the hours are cut, but they still work with the same salary. The tax system needs to be changed and the punishment for violating labor laws is such that the children of our capitalists got into trouble.
    1. +4
      11 February 2020 09: 28
      Salaries are not raised because people agree to work for what they offer. And they agree, because there is nowhere else to go. For salaries to grow, it is necessary that the number of entrepreneurs grow, and they begin to compete for workers. Now companies are competing for programmers, and they are offered salaries at the world level without any laws on protecting the rights of programmers - because if they offer lower, those who know something will not come to them. And state regulation leads only to the fact that everyone begins to engage in fraud, which you observe. It has always been so and will be so.
      1. -1
        11 February 2020 15: 59
        From experience I can say that this does not work. The volume of orders is not growing, and the number of entrepreneurs is increasing year by year. Everyone gets an ever smaller piece of the pie, and with a lack of adequately trained personnel, the number of all the same trained workers exceeds 1 per job. And salaries are falling. Programmers are also no longer piece goods, and are not traded for them. If you satisfy the requirements - you work, no - they will find one more. Everything is extremely simple. To increase salaries, more orders are needed; for more orders, more people are needed. who want and most importantly can buy something. In the meantime, we are in a situation where it is more profitable to order nuts from a private trader in a batch than to buy ready-made ones in a hardware store - it will be cheaper.
        1. 0
          11 February 2020 22: 06
          where is it increasing?
          "According to the audit and consulting network FinExpertiza (RBC has their research), last year more than 290 thousand enterprises were opened in Russia, and more than 600 thousand companies ceased their activities. The number of enterprises closed during the year exceeded the number of those opened in 2,14, XNUMX times. "
    2. -1
      11 February 2020 10: 40
      How can you not go to an entrepreneur to work for a pittance, are you forced to chtoli? Did you think what would happen if the penalties and taxation system were toughened up? Didn't you think that then they would not take anyone at all, or would they only take "robo-gorgeous" ones? In order to get a decent pay, you need to be a specialist, or at least strive for this, and not bend your fingers that everyone owes you.
      1. Qas
        +7
        11 February 2020 12: 04
        And where to go at all if there is NO other work! Simply no! NO! What do not believe what happens?
        1. -6
          11 February 2020 12: 16
          I have not met this. He worked in various jobs, from newspaper distribution to a factory (Chelyabinsk Chelyabinsk Refinery, private sector of woodworking). I always found work being with a child and spouse (unemployed). So you can find. I live in Chelyabinsk (millionaire). I proceed from the conditions of my location
          1. Qas
            +14
            11 February 2020 12: 26
            Yeah, a millionaire ... Russia is wider and there are cities of 20000 people (where I live) and much less. Everywhere is a different situation. There is simply nowhere to work, just nowhere. Everything is collapsed, and what works everywhere is busy. And you do not need to judge only by yourself, others have a different life situation, different environment, other opportunities.
            I have been working since I was 14 years old, one and a half higher (university + courses), I work at 2 jobs and I think that I am doing quite well. But what is happening around the work is just darkness ...
        2. -5
          11 February 2020 13: 53
          Do you live in the Principality of Monaco? One company for the whole country?
        3. 0
          12 February 2020 08: 05
          To buy a ticket. I tried it myself. It helps.
  11. +7
    11 February 2020 08: 03
    In our district Employment Center, the entire list, with the exception of two or three vacancies, is occupied by the district hospital, from doctors of all profiles to nursing staff. There, somehow, the specialist was required part-time, to monitor the computers, the network (zp 15 tr), but there they presented such requirements (knowledge of Assembler, C ++, Java, the ability to make sites, repair the network equipment), plus compulsory education as a software engineer. In the end, they took a boy with S / X education. For some reason, no one wanted to go to ours, I apologize, to go the hole as much as 15 tr. per month.
    1. -6
      11 February 2020 08: 28
      A simple example .... Ivanovo region ... also in the rest ... we look .. work-DO NOT WANT
      https://ir-center.ru/sznregion/ivanov/cznivanovo.asp?rn=%C8%E2%E0%ED%EE%E2%EE&ActivityScopeNoStandart=True&SearchType=1&Region=37&Okato=44093&HideWithEmptySalary=False&ShowOnlyWithEmployerInfo=False&ShowOnlyWithHousing=False&Sort=5&PageSize=0&SpecialCategories=False&Grid-sort=&Grid-page=1&Grid-pageSize=100&Grid-group=&Grid-filter=
      1. +2
        11 February 2020 14: 05
        Quote: 1970mk
        A simple example .... Ivanovo region ... also in the rest ... we look .. work-DO NOT WANT

        Good example. What is your specialty and let's see together, for you personally, by this example, to find a job in Ivanovo. Work - I do not want. Not the smallest city, by the way, with a population of under half a million.
    2. +8
      11 February 2020 08: 38
      Quote: Dimy4
      knowledge of languages ​​Assembler, C ++, Java, the ability to make sites, repair network equipment
      He laughed out loud. Lacks "design of digital circuits in VHDL, development of machine vision algorithms, the ability to refuel printers."
      1. +7
        11 February 2020 08: 54
        Laughed out loud

        Another example: three years ago, a lawyer was needed in one of the rural housing offices (the village of Voronye in the Kostroma region), but as my boss (neighbor) told me, he was still a plumber and knew how to climb wells. Budget says cut.
        1. +1
          11 February 2020 19: 33
          At our enterprise, an intelligent guy (a Kipovian in automation) wanted to go to another production, where he was promised a bigger salary. So there, as it turned out, in addition to the main work in the specialty, he had to fulfill the duties of an electrician and a plumber. And if when not busy with these works, then loaders to help. Refused such happiness. Look further - he said goodbye to potential employers.
      2. +2
        11 February 2020 12: 06
        The experience of piloting a fighter and the skills of an atomic power station operator are welcome.
    3. +1
      11 February 2020 09: 24
      "knowledge of Assembler, C ++, Java, the ability to make sites, repair network equipment" and for 15tyr? With such knowledge, much more can now be found. Much. This is not given to everyone. And the "son of GENERAL" will fill up this case.
      1. +1
        11 February 2020 09: 49
        "knowledge of Assembler, C ++, Java, the ability to make sites, repair network equipment" and for 15tyr? With such knowledge, much more can now be found.

        And the employer in such cases simply does not really understand what he needs, since he has no idea what the employee should do, press the reset button to go when the system hangs on someone. Or do something that makes Microsoft nervously smoke (harmful) aside. The latter case is clearly not about our hospital.
    4. +15
      11 February 2020 11: 56
      Five years ago I went to the employment center to study as a welder, they gave me a referral so that I could go to work "computer operator" for 8 thousand (!!!), as a result, I went to theoretical courses of a welder, then they say come and take a diploma, I say this where is the practice? They thought, gave a referral to practice as a welder at a bakery, the factory said that I did not have enough theoretical course, go learn more, in the end I sent all this and did what I was a little fond of: models for computer games. Now I am an artist and I get it just fine, this is how the authorities manage our personnel remarkably. In general, I am a mechanical engineer by education, and somehow before that I also went to the employment center where I was offered a job as a loader. The job center is probably the most useless organization I've come across in my entire life.
      1. +2
        11 February 2020 16: 12
        You cannot find a normal job in the employment center. Only friends, comrades.
  12. +11
    11 February 2020 08: 08
    No one to work)))) Yes, nobody wants to work for FREE! Everything in the country accumulates in the pockets of various Uncles. And These Uncles are basically Putin's old friends. Does not see it only or blind. Who, in this regard, the people of the Russian Federation choose for yourself.
    1. +4
      11 February 2020 08: 41
      That's right, we are in control of the movement for a new socialism and Platoshkin !!! smile Edro in the furnace, Vekselberg in Israel.
      1. 0
        12 February 2020 14: 06
        Come on? New socialism? How? Do not offer the Platoshkin program, pure game!
        1. 0
          13 February 2020 07: 54
          There may be different ways. It is possible to eliminate the counter from above, though it is hard to believe this, the counter will not eat itself. She will eat us. It is possible from below, when they are driven to extreme despair and adapt to ever-worsening living conditions, an ever-widening mass of citizens will not be possible. Socialism is so natural and fair that we will return to it inevitably.
  13. +4
    11 February 2020 08: 34
    The offered vacancies, or rather salaries and working conditions, are simply an abuse of the law, common sense and human dignity. Repeatedly checked by my friends.
    The lame one came to our workshop, I ask, can you work? No, I can’t, I only have a mark, and why a sick person was sent to work that was obviously not suitable for him.
    1. +6
      11 February 2020 08: 40
      There is such, many vacancies are just fiction. They are annoying the employer, give me a vacancy, but he really does not need you.
  14. +3
    11 February 2020 09: 02
    Recently, my friends voiced the salary of a lecturer in the Moscow Region - 4,5 thousand rubles.

    A couple of acquaintances fled from general education.
    Well, not Muscovites, they are not Muscovites ...
  15. +4
    11 February 2020 09: 03
    It is necessary to take an IQ test when hiring for government posts, if less than 110 - bye. Also, once a quarter, public testing on a polygraph. True, then 90% of current officials will fly out, but new ones will come - smart and honest.
    1. +2
      11 February 2020 09: 47
      Quote: Esaul
      True, then 90% of current officials will fly out, but new ones will come - smart and honest.

      Your faith in light and fair touches belay
    2. 0
      11 February 2020 16: 05
      It is dangerous that a person can be unique in the academic plan and absolutely not understanding real life and vice versa, understanding the essence and organization of things, but not capable of accurate calculations. Both will be a high level of intelligence, but in different areas. I would adjust the intelligence test with a full psychological examination, not for a tick, but a real test, and an independent commission of specialists in the future direction of work, not officials, but for example for someone who goes to the agro-industrial complex a conversation with representatives of farms, teachers of agricultural institutes and etc. Assessment for adequacy and professionalism.
  16. +8
    11 February 2020 09: 08
    I work just in the aerospace industry.
    Wages in 92 thousand "dirty" are received by units of highly skilled workers, taking into account daily evenings (TC rests, inspections are vigilant every 3 years) and work on weekends.
    Young people have no experience or opportunity to earn such amounts.
    Statistics once again turns out to be a corrupt girl of the authorities (or for the authorities).
    But the marriage that happens (and in our industry the requirements are super-tight) also pops up in many thousands of deductions.
    1. 0
      11 February 2020 11: 58
      but every time we report on the number of starts and the money earned on this, where only this money is asked
  17. +11
    11 February 2020 09: 10
    I was shocked by the following message "... the" Mobile Teacher "program was launched in the Perm Territory: they give the teacher a car, and he travels around several schools in the district with lessons in a day." Unhappy teacher, he needs to wander around the area (hours), give a lesson (after that), return home (the same time), prepare for the next day (hours), service the car. What kind of life is this with him? For what kind of money did you strain?
    1. +8
      11 February 2020 10: 45
      Really strange. In this case, he must receive an additional rate (half-rate) of the driver and observe the regime of work and rest of the driver. And when did he check notebooks, write plans? Reporting again. In my opinion - rare crap.
    2. +9
      11 February 2020 11: 05
      Quote: betta
      I was shocked by the following message "... in the Perm Territory they launched the" Mobile Teacher "program: they give the teacher a car, and he travels around several schools in the district with lessons in a day."

      And this is not an advanced innovation, it is a "kirdyk" to the system due to the lack of personnel.
      So you can even get to mobile maternity hospitals.
    3. -2
      11 February 2020 12: 02
      And what is so shocking here? My wife, at one time, gave lectures at both the medical institute and the medical school. I moved around the city in my car.
      1. +3
        11 February 2020 12: 44
        It is shocking that this has become normal.
    4. 0
      11 February 2020 14: 17
      Quote: betta
      Unhappy teacher, he needs to wander around the area (hours), conduct a lesson (after that), return home (same time), prepare for the next day (hours), service the car.

      I wonder who pays for gas, and if the state, then how?
  18. 0
    11 February 2020 09: 12
    What can this state of affairs talk about? Either worthless workers who no one needs come out of schools either local authorities do not analyze the labor market, and as a result, overproduction of some specialists and a shortage of others are created.

    Exactly. By the way. as soon as they began to study, everywhere, including on this site - the howl of the libers rose - "ah, they are closing the way, ah. They lie. They are not needed!" wink
    Well and so ... There is one more crap. Before, I remember, the cant was next. It’s easy to get out of a trip. But there is no salary, no prospects either. The university has finished - rzhach begins. Give a qualified employee to employers ... But is a diploma not a qualification? No. With work experience. I, damn it, where will I get it from you? Either then I do not study, or work - but without a diploma. You can’t just write a diploma, especially when it is not compiled from an Internet, but for example a research project. And what? Really done, and often. One in her own bachelor's degree, first a master's degree, then the KBB received, in fact, one and the same.
  19. +12
    11 February 2020 09: 16
    It was, in particular, that in many cases, college programs do not meet the real requirements of the modern economy.

    As a result, the Ministry of Education was instructed to analyze them and create a methodological basis for their updating.
    Wonderful! Just great! Can I ask one question, from a place, because of the desk, so to speak? And what, excuse me, is the Ministry of Education busy with us? What are people doing there, the total salary of which is equal to the total salary of the city of a million people?
    We know that ordinary teachers are completely overwhelmed by reporting. No one can say why this reporting exists, but fact is fact. Mary Ivanovna sits all the evening, and sculpts tablets, and then sends them on command. Sea of ​​information, Christmas tree!
    But then it suddenly turns out that the Ministry of Education has absolutely NO REPRESENTATION that there are generally training programs in a huge class of educational institutions. That is, the ministry does not know at all what is going on there! And gigabytes of reports? And hundreds of tons of paper copies? Why the angel do teachers and teachers do all this, why are they killed ?!
    After all, the Ministry in general, absolutely, completely does not read any of this! And they have no idea about anything, and of course, no one there makes any efforts to at least do something concrete. The training programs that take place in schools do not correspond to anything. Well, what a surprise! We, stupid ones, think that the Ministry of Education is created to monitor and prevent such things! Stupid, stupid Russian people, do not understand anything ...
    1. 0
      11 February 2020 09: 41
      Just the same social principle - accounting and control. And what do we want, if the arvation of the accountant and the financiers of Yu were, reporting is most important for them.
  20. +2
    11 February 2020 09: 53
    Who is to blame for this?
    1. +1
      11 February 2020 11: 30
      The one you know about Yes
  21. +7
    11 February 2020 10: 03
    As for unemployment rates that are creeping down.
    Remember how many plants stood under Yeltsin. Most factories, not even closed, are destroyed. The issue of jobs has been resolved. And what about the freed people? And the people on the graveyard. And the decline of the people is not yet shown, because there is a substitution of imports. Workers from the south, not only wipers, they are already almost everywhere. Doctors and nurses, police, tax inspectors, bank employees ...
    1. +7
      11 February 2020 10: 30
      For myself, I concluded that it is unprofitable to work as an engineer at enterprises nowadays. The salary is approaching the salary of the janitor, and the requests for knowledge, experience and responsibility for the requirements for an astronaut. The last retirees leave, there is no replacement and there will be no replacement, but it still does not reach employers. The last plant from which I left is calling back for 25, all naturally with the duties "if not you then who" is funny by God.
      1. +4
        11 February 2020 11: 16
        Quote: Primus
        but it still doesn't reach employers
        It does not come, because they are not interested in the efficiency and quality of their work. They work for the state order, and the products for the state order are made for forced people (military, civil servants), who in any case will eat what they give. State orders are obtained through meeting the right people - that is, corruption, which some statesmen proclaim "lubricant for the economy."
        1. +1
          11 February 2020 11: 33
          Previously, it is rare for a military representative to surrender the first time, where did they go or canceled the requirements. The system was worse than the quality mark and could not be forced to sign until corrected.
          1. 0
            11 February 2020 12: 42
            Give them a try now. Only some ridiculous nagging. They made a prototype, began to correct the design documentation in order to improve manufacturability, and launched an experimental batch. The military representatives say: "If you make changes to the pilot batch, change the prototype." In this case, why do we need R&D and R&D, and the deadlines are burning. So the preparation of Customers also leaves much to be desired.
        2. +1
          11 February 2020 13: 19
          Alas, private traders not spoiled by state orders have the same
      2. +9
        11 February 2020 13: 21
        Somehow I looked through vacancies, sat and simply neighing. The organization is looking for a specialist in instrumentation and automation, who is ready to go around the clock for accidents and problems in boiler rooms. Plus, scheduled maintenance of instrumentation and automation systems for those boiler rooms, maintenance of fire alarm systems (fire alarm systems), plus repair of failed equipment circuits. So it is written - repair schemes. Tinning, soldering, changing ...
        And the salary ... to pubs ... 14t.r. I already called there, it became interesting, maybe they will name some bonuses in the conversation? Named. Drive your car in an accident. And what about gasoline? No, "it's all within the city!" I wished them success in finding a specialist in several specialties for the salary of a security guard in Pyaterochka.
    2. 0
      11 February 2020 16: 50
      This is only in large cities where the indigenous population neglects such work. In the outback, often, indigenous and janitors and road workers.
  22. +4
    11 February 2020 12: 23
    Is it a shame for the state? Is it really poor to train your specialists for such projects? And will our people really refuse to work on the construction sites of the century, to create a "national treasure"?
    And who should be offended by whom the author means? Those with children studying abroad, with money and real estate there, and considering the Russian Federation as a territory for feeding? To whom the call of the author is addressed - there, after all, there are no others. sad
  23. +2
    11 February 2020 12: 59
    We have created a fucking bias towards accountants, lawyers and other managers am
    There are catastrophically lacking normal engineers and programmers, I’m not talking about working specialties, they killed professional profs back in the late 80s.
    This can’t be fixed in a couple of years. For the country this is bad, but for the same programmers and engineers it is very good.
    Now the encoder is without experience but from a normal university immediately for a hundred. After a couple of three years, if not at all dumb for 200. Further, in different ways.
  24. +3
    11 February 2020 13: 06
    The problem of staff shortage is not only in salary. There is still the problem of the attitude of society towards working professions. As long as the worker will be considered a failure, who could not even in the most miserable higher education, nothing will change. And we don’t need ideology, yes ...
  25. 0
    11 February 2020 13: 07
    Everything is fine. Let the tractor work: it is iron. Can not do - teach how to do! You can’t teach - teach how to teach! As population decreases, incomes will increase (on average).
    1. -1
      11 February 2020 15: 47
      Quote: iouris
      As population decreases, income will increase (on average).

      Oh, how interesting he wrote!
      It is necessary to clarify the words, however ... We did not understand belay
  26. 0
    11 February 2020 16: 41
    I have never read such a chaotic article on Voennoye Obozreniye. Is it about unemployment, or about the problems of vocational schools?
    1. +1
      11 February 2020 21: 03
      Quote: Yuri Malyshko
      I have never read such a chaotic article on Voennoye Obozreniye. Is it about unemployment, or about the problems of vocational schools?

      But the article raised an Important issue and touched many for the living. Putin recently said that the Russian government pays workers and engineers in the national defense industry ten times less than the US. It is interesting to read the comments of those who were among them Russian engineers and workers.
  27. +1
    11 February 2020 17: 16
    ... the last three years, unemployment rates are slowly but surely creeping down

    These "indicators" are creeping down only because the methodology for determining the status of the unemployed changes every year! In 2010, in Rossiyskaya Gazeta (a body of the Government of the Russian Federation), I read one review article based on an interview with a high-ranking official of Rosstat, from which I learned that 36% working-age citizens of the Russian Federation do not officially work anywhere. (By the way, from here comes the lack of funds in the Pension Fund). Now such revelations of senior officials in the state media are strictly filtered. Although economists, who do not owe anything to the Presidential Administration and the Government, write that since then this figure has only grown. In a word, a huge number of people in the modern Russian Federation are interrupted by random earnings (I know many people by the face: these are my fellow countrymen who in the season - 4-5 months a year) sell mushrooms and berries collected in forests, chop wood, dig gardens. ..wealthy neighbors). About 2–3 million people (mostly young people) who did not find work in the Russian Federation and left in search of a better share abroad do not fall into the number of unemployed. Several millions of former collective farmers, for whom several hectares of agricultural land are a share, even if this land has long been overgrown with small forests or marshy, are not subject to accounting, it is believed that such citizens have a source of income. Real unemployment is growing !!!
    1. 0
      11 February 2020 18: 16
      The slogan that in order to get a decent payment you need to be a worthy specialist is not true, if the employee really knows his own worth, then you need to negotiate with him, and the mentality of the strong side (represented by the employer) does not allow contracts with the weak side (even if it is very smart) and then fools can be pushed around like a hosh ..
    2. +1
      11 February 2020 18: 52
      Among youth there are now a lot of children who work on free bread and are not going to plow on uncle. From all sorts of youtube bloggers and designers to programmers and garage mechanics. According to statistics, they are unemployed, in fact their income can only be envied.
    3. +2
      11 February 2020 19: 51
      Quote: Yuri Malyshko
      Real unemployment is growing !!!

      A military pensioner cannot be unemployed; he has a source of income - a pension! hi
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. 0
    11 February 2020 19: 24
    Quote: PSih2097
    Quote: Aingof
    An electrician is not something that cannot connect the POWER part of the frequency converter, although there is a circuit directly on it, they can not power the electrical cabinet correctly (they will not connect 0, they confuse 0 with the ground).

    This is what he ended up, confusing zero with the ground ...

    He didn’t finish, he worked somewhere else, because he was over 40. There was a story in December, the drive burned out, after 3 days of replacement, the tape dispenser (conveyor) twitched at low speeds. On the drive, a single-phase inverter 0,75 kW, for 3 days they changed the gearbox and the motor to more powerful ones (the engine was 0,75) until at night the Kipovans on duty could drive the rated current (yes, the frequency meters set the Kipovians on a piece of paper, the electricians were scared of displays and strange icons), dragged the 2,2 kW engine. In the morning they told me, I went to look, they searched for the engine for half a day and assembled the gearbox (I am silent that the engine is 0,75 gearbox 1,5), tuned, started and stopped the tape by hand. He opened the bar and, like a star, instead of a triangle. 3 days and the assertion that the inverter is to blame. And as a highlight: I explain to the new electrician which inverters 220 and which 380V, surprised eyes and the question of how he remakes one phase in 3 and where is the capacitor. But in fact they don’t even look that they connect and do not turn on the head. Accustomed to 3 phases connected and free.
    1. 0
      16 February 2020 01: 15
      So, in general, the electrician correctly says that there are instrumentation and control devices for tuning frequency chambers. But when you studied instrumentation and automation, you were not taught, for example, how to install high-voltage couplings, or how to assemble transformer substations, or how to lay cable in trenches.
  30. +2
    11 February 2020 19: 46
    All employers want young, healthy, smart, conscientious, honest, skilled ...... employees to work for them. And what can they give the employee? A decent salary? - no! Youth? -No! Health? -No! Education? -No! Honest and conscientious (popularly called losers) Are there many employers who are willing to pay for continuing education (5-6 grades are needed)? The requirements are at the global level, and salaries and living standards differ from world standards like heaven and earth. And having completed work, what do you get? -Poverty pension! (if you still get it!) And a bunch of diseases. At the same time, the state should help parents raise and train the employee, and upon retirement, provide pension and treatment. Many national projects, this is an inefficient investment of money. hi
  31. +1
    11 February 2020 19: 56
    Quote: DMB 75
    It’s good that I’m retired, and if I’m working now, then for pennies .. Normally people don’t pay now, so they have enough for a living, so as not to get into credit bondage ....

    That's right, they pay the minimum so that they don't starve to death. But it seems to me that such a level of salaries is set intentionally. After all, a person is a creature with many needs: housing, study, treatment ... BANKS parasitize on all this. Honest work can only earn a hernia. Because the people take mortgages and loans at a predatory interest, then they pay half their lives filling the masters' purses ... The people have learned to milk from us. But it is not profitable to build a real economy so that people work for a decent salary, masters are not profitable. "Oil-gas" is pumped, sold over the hill, money in the river, and the people still pay them interest for the fact that they survive ...
    STEAM.
  32. 0
    11 February 2020 20: 00
    Quote: Victor N
    In other countries, primarily in "developed" countries, the population's debt load is much higher than in Russia. This is a symptom of a "consumer society" and not a merit of any government.

    Will you stew for a long time here? Tales of bad people and a good king? Yes?
  33. +1
    11 February 2020 20: 28
    Nobody will transfer any experience now. Under capitalism we live, why breed competitors? Enterprises want highly qualified specialists, but they themselves do not want to invest in studies. For free, that is, they want specialists. In my life experience, only one enterprise had employee training. And then this is a state office, a service organization for a larger state. corporations. And so they only know how to moan, some ignoramuses around, not enough specialists.
  34. +7
    11 February 2020 20: 34
    I agree with the article almost entirely.
    The author "cuts the chip".
    I wanted to write a sheet to clarify all the theses, but I have neither the strength nor the desire. Bo the day turned out to be very intense (with a damn "storm" and almost a hurricane. Our steamer was torn off the mooring lines and carried around the base. I was beaten myself and did a business. With the proud name "Poltava". This is not counting the blown glass of the workshop by the wind. Well, then, such ...
    On business, I think the main problem with personnel is the lack of decent wages. This is the cornerstone. None of the young people will go (especially in these times) to deliberately ruin their health, get injured and the prospect of going "on the hill" in fifty dollars for 35/40 thousand a month. And it's also "closed well". And so, and 20/24 you have the right to receive, and do not deny yourself anything.
    And besides, uniform payment across the industry.
    I can’t understand why the same work, almost on the same equipment, performed with the same level of quality, costs in St. Petersburg XNUMX thousand rubles a month, and in the town of Primorsky - forty ?! Moreover, it is performed by the same people. How is it so?! .. why such distortions?!.
    It is clear to the goat that everyone will leave for the capital. Only veterans and those for whom health is no longer allowed to leave will remain in place. For example, to me. What is again a bias. Everything cannot be built in the capitals.
    1. +2
      13 February 2020 14: 53
      Quote: Petrol cutter
      I can’t understand why the same work, almost on the same equipment, performed with the same level of quality, costs in St. Petersburg XNUMX thousand rubles a month, and in the town of Primorsky - forty ?!

      Muscovites bought a factory from us. They asked the average salary, they were told 8 thousand rubles. This is enough for you here !!! There was an answer! Result - the factory has closed! The greed of Moscow fraers ruined! wassat
      And so it is everywhere! They learned to steal, wring, but in business .........., whose managers they hire, they row money for themselves, and they throw the owners. And rightly so! hi
  35. +1
    11 February 2020 22: 26
    Unemployment rates are another cheating, like inflation, production growth, life expectancy. A lot can be listed. To officially become unemployed, you need to try very hard. Therefore, many do not bother. Real unemployment will be more than official figures.
  36. +3
    12 February 2020 00: 16
    Yes, there is someone to work!
    It’s just that we have a stupid stereotype that 45-year-old experienced and assiduous aunts work worse than 22-year-old brainless nipples living in social networks who are also constantly on decrees laughing
    1. +2
      12 February 2020 03: 59
      I train gas fitters "remotely" wassat it is pointless to teach him anything himself, with the salary "minimum wage" they run instantly, it's easier to be a watchman for the same salary sad
  37. +1
    12 February 2020 09: 02
    But how not to be a problem? No fools, work for a penny! Putin’s bosses behave like gentlemen in a serfdom! I am a mechanical engineer, got a job, the salary is 15 rubles a month. The lords - critters began to put pressure on me, the amount of work is colossal, and they demand that I take work from home, and come to work on weekends. And they have space salaries! And I have to plow for 000 15 rubles! Sent them all in three letters!
    1. 0
      12 February 2020 10: 54
      Quotes: Dmitry Medvedev "Over the past 20 years, a new layer of people has appeared in Russia who do not know what money earned by their labor is ..."
      Vladimir Putin "Yes - the profession of a lawyer is certainly much more complicated than the profession of a turner ..."

      Where are you rushing three Russian black sheep ??? Again along the abyss yes along the edge ???
      Gas and oil flow over a hill - and from there money flows into the pockets of the lords ... Everything else can be bought ... Why take a steam bath about some experts there ??? - they don’t die of hunger, and all right ...
  38. +1
    12 February 2020 10: 08
    "Isn't it a shame for the state? Is it really weak to train its specialists for such projects? And really our people will refuse to work on the construction sites of the century, to create a" national treasure "? Especially for those considerable salaries that they are offered? Or is it still not offered?" AND HERE "Firstly, there are special colleges for high-tech industries, which are not open to everyone. Secondly, this is a piece goods, many of them are not required." We need to decide.
    1. +2
      12 February 2020 14: 37
      In order to prepare specialists (any), those who want to study are needed. There have always been problems with this, now there are less people willing to study diligently. Studying is hard work, you need to force yourself. Neither the teacher nor the state can force, just create the conditions.
      1. +2
        14 February 2020 23: 01
        And to create conditions, this is, first and foremost, materially interested. Capitalism is in the yard.
        A person learns and understands, then he will receive / earn normal money. He will provide for himself and his future family.
  39. +1
    12 February 2020 14: 45
    When there is oil and gas, workers are not needed, only security guards. Gaster employees will be hired.
  40. +1
    13 February 2020 02: 02
    When the labor market is in short supply, salaries rise. In Russia, there is no increase in salaries. With these words, I refute your entire article. If the RFP does not grow, then employers do not need to attract workers, they are sure that the honey will work for 12.000 rubles.
  41. 0
    14 February 2020 18: 22
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    now, in all seriousness, they are discussing lowering the minimum wage to a value below the already false "living wage", that is, in fact, to 10000 rubles.

    This is being done on purpose, and many of this kind of initiative is just like pension reform.
    And stuffing fake regularly appear. People are preparing for revolution, politicizing.
    Liberals want to overthrow the power of the military.
  42. -4
    7 September 2022 16: 04
    There are too many managers, businessmen, bloggers who make money out of thin air. All the money in the country goes into the pockets of these parasites. There is no money to pay for real work.

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