Modern films about the war and the myths of "flying wood"


There is a group of representatives of the so-called creative intelligentsia who are either in pursuit of a long ruble, or in order to distort the real stories Into the plots of new films about the war they introduce such things, which makes the specialists “itch their fists”.


The appearance on the screens of reminded signalers in the trenches and dugouts, nurses with manicure, taking the wounded out of the battlefield - these are episodes of many modern "masterpieces about the war." The main explanation from the authors themselves in this case is banal: "This is not a historical film, but a feature film."

The Sky Artist channel released new material on how the viewer is often lied to in films about the Great Patriotic War. The video provides specific examples.

From the material:

History has already been rewritten. Judging by the new interpretations, the war was won by the penal battalions, driven into battle by the NKVD officers.

The video discusses the tenacious myth of "flying coffins", as well as the myth of "flying wood." Such epithets pseudo-experts like to endow the means of Soviet combat aviation during World War II with the emphasis on the fact that Nazi Germany had aircraft “better, better and more reliable”. But as soon as the question arises, how did “flying wood” win the battle for heaven against the German “ideal machines”, then the false experts either try to get away from the answer, or the answer is in the style: “They threw corpses there”.

Movie on Sky Artist:
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  1. Vasily Ponomarev 10 February 2020 20: 11 New
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    such is the time, the battle for history
    1. Alexander Suvorov 10 February 2020 20: 46 New
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      Vasily Ponomarev (twin pix)
      such is the time, the battle for history
      Well, let’s say, having run through your comments and looking at your garbage rating, you come to the conclusion that you are also an “ideological” fighter for rewriting history, and not in our direction.
      In the comments to the video, if you look at YouTube, there are also many wrestlers, judging by the style of presentation, most of the country is 404, are you from the same place for an hour?
      1. Vasily Ponomarev 11 February 2020 09: 10 New
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        can you show my "ideological" comments and say where I am wrong, or how?
        1. Varyag_0711 11 February 2020 09: 20 New
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          Vasily Ponomarev (twin pix)
          can you show my "ideological" comments and say where I am wrong, or how?
          I apologize for interfering in your conversation. Although the question was not addressed to me, I was not too lazy and ran over your comments. Typically, you have extremely mean comments, I almost did not find a single one detailed. And in all the comments it shows that everything is bad in Russia, but if it is about the USA or NATO, then everything is fine there.
          So Alexander Suvorov is right, you are a real ideological fighter against Russia.
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          1. Prisoner 10 February 2020 23: 18 New
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            What dump did you dig out?
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              1. mat-vey 11 February 2020 06: 26 New
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                The devil, as they say in the details ... In the 90s, the radio sounded a little different and continued .. I do not remember literally ... There the conversation went primarily for Zhukov, that after the military council in Stalingrad (not a dugout , and the basement of the house) ALL commanders were taken to a closed courtyard where deserters were shot. After which it was said - inform subordinates that there would be no mercy with cowards and alarmists ... Popkova, it was outraged - there are only senior officers and such a "cheap demonstration" ... So, after a lapse of time (a lot of time, it’s already in Germany), he was already a colonel, after some kind of military council Zhukov took him aside and "apologized for that case in Stalingrad - they said this was the situation and they demanded tough measures. "
                PySy - although MK is such an authoritarian and impolite publication that maybe my memory fails me ..
                1. Avior 11 February 2020 08: 12 New
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                  And mk has nothing to do with it
                  It was during the life of Popkov, in 2004, and the hero passed away in 2010, if they had lied in MK, he had enough time to refute
                  1. mat-vey 11 February 2020 09: 19 New
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                    "Published in the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper No. 1139 of April 14, 2001" - do you read your links to the end?
                2. Fitter65 11 February 2020 12: 24 New
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                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Popkov, it was outraged - there are only senior officers and such a "cheap demonstration"

                  Popkov Vitaliy Ivanovich sergeant (September 1941)
                  junior lieutenant (10.03.1943/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  lieutenant (4.08.1943/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  senior lieutenant (13.11.1943/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  captain (30.06.1944/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  major (14.08.1948/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  lieutenant colonel (13.06.1951/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  colonel (20.13.1953)
                  Major General of Aviation (18.02.1958/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  lieutenant general of aviation (19.02.1968)
                  At the time you brought this incident, V.I. Popkov was a SERGEANT, he simply could not have been at this event (they’re not always invited to regiment commanders to the military council), and even more so that they are indignant, “there are only senior officers,” the sergeant was indignant , moreover, according to the charter of the Red Army, there were red commanders, officers in the Red Army appeared along with epaulets in 1943 ... More In June 1945, the 1st Belorussian Front was renamed the Group of Soviet Occupation Forces in Germany (GSOVG), the commander of which was the head of the front, Marshal Zhukov. He commanded the group until 1946. Captain V.I. Popkov at this time the squadron commander. That is, even if there was a meeting between Zhukov and Popkov at that time, it would be unlikely that Zhukov would recall the inconspicuous sergeant from 1942, and when Popkov became a colonel and commander of the regiment, Zhukov was already Minister of Defense .. So this is nothing more than a duck it is not clear by whom and why it was launched, although for what it was started it is clear. But why is V.I. Popkov substituted for her?
                  1. mat-vey 11 February 2020 13: 02 New
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                    With Laveikin I.P. beguiled ...
                    1. Fitter65 11 February 2020 13: 22 New
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                      Quote: mat-vey
                      With Laveikin I.P. beguiled ...

                      In what sense? Captain Laveikin I.P. in the fall of 1942, too, was not a "senior officer" ...
                      1. mat-vey 11 February 2020 13: 32 New
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                        And the position was - just appointed komescom ...
                      2. Fitter65 11 February 2020 13: 54 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And the position was - just appointed komescom ...

                        The squadron commander is not a regiment commander, especially during the Great Patriotic War. Well, you were mistaken, you wrote the wrong name, and you described the wrong episode, and not with that person ... Even assuming that, at this "event", company commanders of squadrons, batteries, and battalions (not all of course, and selectively, those who did not directly participate, at the moment, in the hostilities) do not you really think that in this crowd G.K. Zhukov, Army General, representative of the Stavka on the Stalingrad Front, drew attention to some captain who POSSIBLE said something, while in the ranks of the military?
                      3. mat-vey 11 February 2020 13: 58 New
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                        And why couldn’t he turn it around? That only the appointed squadron commander remembered this for sure ...
                      4. mat-vey 11 February 2020 14: 31 New
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                        "a representative of the Stavka on the Stalingrad front, drew attention to some captain who POSSIBLE said something" - not every captain’s “jerk” has three orders of the Red Banner on his chest.
                      5. Fitter65 11 February 2020 15: 07 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And why couldn’t he turn it around? That only the appointed squadron commander remembered this for sure ...

                        For the appointment of the squadron commander in those days, a simple order for the division was enough, or as Efimov a simple instruction of the regiment, which was later approved by the division in an explicit order. So for the appointment of Mr. Laveikin I.P. G.K. Zhukov, no sideways.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        not every captain’s “jerk” has three orders of the Red Banner on his chest.
                        So what? Okay there back in the days of L.I. Brezhnev was written as G.K. Zhukov came to consult with the head of the political department, Colonel Brezhnev ... Zhukov didn’t remember all the generals, but here the whole captain !!! By the way, about the shooting of 4 unfortunate pilots, you accidentally subtracted information from this opus Call Sign "Maestro"authorship of Svetlana Samodelova? For general development, you should read a couple of these articles and compare. http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/popkov.htm
                        http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=348 Удачи в познании неизвестного( для вас само собой разумеется)
                      6. mat-vey 11 February 2020 15: 12 New
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                        “For the appointment of the squadron commander in those days, a simple order for the division was enough, or as Efimov a simple instruction of the regiment, which was later approved by the division in an explicit manner. So for the appointment of Mr. Laveikin I.P. G.K. Zhukov here’s not sideways. "- is everything all right with you? Where did you hear about the appointment of Laveikin by Zhukov?
                        You will voice everything that I still “sounded” so that I would know.
                      7. Fitter65 11 February 2020 15: 17 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        You will voice everything that I still “sounded” so that I would know.

                        your words?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And why couldn’t he turn it around? That only the appointed squadron commander remembered this for sure ...

                        If you remember, you would have written that YOU. And so in the context of our dispute it turns out that Zhukov.
                      8. mat-vey 11 February 2020 15: 28 New
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                        Your logic doesn’t even appeal to women ... How could Zhukov appoint Laveikin as squadron commander if he had already been appointed - "just appointed"? Is that twice a commander?
  • Avior 11 February 2020 00: 37 New
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    The prototype of the Maestro and the Grasshopper at the same time in the movie

    Quote from his interview. The film didn’t make it, understandably.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/thumb/7/73/PopkovVI.jpg/274px-PopkovVI.jpg
    1. Avior 11 February 2020 01: 07 New
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      I apologize, this link to the interview of Popkov. 2004 Interview.
      https://www.mk.ru/editions/daily/article/2004/06/22/110460-pozyivnoy-maestro.html
      1. Fitter65 11 February 2020 14: 41 New
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        Quote: Avior
        I apologize, this link to the interview of Popkov. 2004 Interview.
        https://www.mk.ru/editions/daily/article/2004/06/22/110460-pozyivnoy-maestro.html
        from the interview
        I remember he was surprised when he found out that, leading the illustrious squadron, I was just a sergeant.

        At the beginning of his military career, Sergeant V.I. Popkov was a flight commander, and he became a comedian much later.
        ... In January 42nd after the liberation of Kalinin, we found her in a broken German police station ... In March 42nd, almost all of our regiment flew away on a mission. On the runway were the planes of the regiment commander and commissar. Suddenly, I saw that German planes were coming in to attack the airfield — two Junkers-87 bombers and two Messerschmitt-109 fighters. Of the young pilots, I was the closest to the planes, as I was - without flight uniforms, without a parachute - I immediately jumped into the cockpit. Taking off, rushed to the attack and from the very first approach he overwhelmed a slow-moving bomber.
        This one apologizes for the expression "correspondent" at least at first I would get acquainted with the real dates and events from the life of V.I. Popkova: First, let's start by In March-May 1942, Sergeant V.I. Popkov was considered a reserve pilot in the 4th Reserve AP, the city of Morshansk, Tambov Region Second
        Vitaly Ivanovich remembered his first victory in a fiery sky forever. This happened in early June 1942 in the vicinity of the city of Kholm - on a LaGG-3 fighter, he shot down a Do-217 bomber.
        And then we read carefully
        V. I. Popkov recalls:

        “My first plane shot down, it was Dornier-217,” the whole story. It all started with a violation of flight discipline: during training, I overheated at a low altitude. And I was assigned to be the eternal duty officer in the kitchen. I am eager to fight, and me: he doesn’t tolerate a fight. One day in the early June morning, 2 Dornier and 2 Me-109 suddenly appeared over the airfield, which were covered by bombers. Their thick lines hit the LaGGs standing on the runways. And what if they fly towards them?

        I jumped on a plane in an apron in which I was peeling potatoes. “Dornier” shot down from the first call. The Germans did not like it, and they left. I am landing, a sea of ​​delight. I explain that knocking a plane for me is like spitting. The regiment commander shouts: "Why didn’t you grab the Messers, too ?!"

        In response, I’ll take and blurt out: “So you, comrade commander, have scared me all the Fritz with your underwear!” I slashed the truth - the uterus. It was early morning, and the commander ran out onto the field, as they say, out of shape. The regiment cursed, but opened the way to heaven ... "
        As you understand (or not), the Yu-87 is very much outwardly different from Dornier-217. So here is the link https://www.mk.ru/editions/daily/article/2004/06/22/110460-pozyivnoy-maestro.html you can turn into a tube and put it to hell. Since when comparing the facts it turns out that the correspondent from Svetlana Samodelova
        , who wrote this opus, like a carrot chisel. And again we turn to opus 50 years after the war, Vitaly Ivanovich drank cognac near Volgograd with ace Luftwaffe Graf. A German pilot came to Russia to meet with former guard Sergeant Popkov, who shot him down in August 42 near Stalingrad. In a snowy village, veterans stood in a snowdrift near the Gumrat airfield — where Popkov had forced Count to land — and remembered the days of the war. At least I wondered how to spell GUMRAK airdrome. Well, and how V.I. Popkov actually stated it At the end of August, according to Vitaly Ivanovich himself, one of the most famous German aces was shot down by him:

        “Near Stalingrad, on August 26, 1942, I won an air match against German Graf (9th ace of the Luftwaffe, 212 declared victories). A decent pilot. After he was shot down, he spent several years in our camps. When I returned to Germany, I became convinced antifascist, much later even ran for the Bundestag from the eastern regions of Germany. We met with him several times. So he agreed with me that “honestly”, in “knightly fights”, he would not bring down a tenth of what is on to his account ... "
        By the way, "auntie correspondent" can distinguish a downed plane from a forced one to land, and in August 1942 Gumrak was already in the hands of the Germans ... So
        Quote: Avior
        Avior (Sergey)

        read normal interviews, documented, here are at least such http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/popkov.htm And not this nonsense from Svetlana Samodelova, which simply defames the pure name of our heroes.
        1. Avior 11 February 2020 15: 18 New
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          This is an intravital interview of Popkov, he gave it 9 years before his death, a reprint on the network in 2004. If he thought that she wrote something in the MK that substantially distorted his words, he would have 9 years to refute that article, directly or indirectly.
          Did I write something about the fact that he shot down or something else?
          I just gave the source of a specific quote.
          If you want to prove that the interview was false, find where Popkov himself declares it, not you, and the question is closed. The fact that he could confuse the type of baffer by age, make a reservation or a date or other irrelevant details, it’s obvious that an aged person talked about events half a century ago, this is a common problem in many memoirs, all the more so in an interview in which a person does not have time to clarify or recall or correct a reservation. Moreover, the interview was about something else.
          And the fact that this was not an interview, this statement is not yours, especially since yesterday you still did not know about him at all, but Popkov himself. And I don’t see this from you.
          hi
          1. Fitter65 11 February 2020 15: 56 New
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            Quote: Avior
            This is an intravital interview of Popkov, he gave it 9 years before his death, a reprint on the network in 2004. If he thought that she wrote something in the MK that substantially distorted his words, he would have 9 years to refute that article, directly or indirectly.

            But I’m not sure that V.I.Popkov gave this interview, for which you gave a footnote here. We even consider that he refuted this interview, and that someone deleted it, removed it and apologized? Take for example an article from Red Star dated February 11.02. 2020 redstar.ru/lyotnyj-pozyvnoj-maestro/?print=print, and the authors also did not bother to read thatBy August 1943, the flight commander of the 5th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (207th Fighter Aviation Division, 3rd Combined Aviation Corps, 17th Air Army, South-Western Front) Guards, Second Lieutenant V. I. Popkov, completed 168 combat sorties, participating in 45 air battles, personally shot down 17 enemy aircraft.

            September 8, 1943 for courage and military valor shown in battles with enemies, was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union.
            As they wrote on March 6.03, 2019 in the same "Red Star" http://redstar.ru/lyotnyj-pozyvnoj-maestro So this year they also printed on a new one, and who will check what’s embarrassing.
            1. Avior 11 February 2020 16: 05 New
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              if there is information that Popkov personally denied this interview primarily in the part of the quote being discussed, I will be glad to read it.
              What they write after his death cannot in any way refute what he said such a thing, now he cannot argue.
              And he mentioned this particular case more than once — there is a link to another interview with him on the same topic.
            2. Fitter65 11 February 2020 16: 45 New
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              Quote: Avior
              And he mentioned this particular case more than once — there is a link above to another interview with him on the same topic.

              There are such memories
              ... memories of V.I. Popkov- Zhukov ordered the regiment commander to shoot all the pilots for the Germans dominating the air and there were only 7 aircraft in the regiment; the regiment commander refused Zhukov left and that was all over ...
              There are also
              ... told V.I.Popkov in recent years - about how he saw the execution of pilots by personal order of G.K. Zhukov before the formation on August 23, 1942 near Stalingrad; about his personal participation in a booze with V., I. Stalin, when the squib exploded; about his participation in the Korean War and planes shot down there ...
              So shot or not shot? About the fact that V.I.Popkov, being a sergeant, was a comedian, we found out or will repeat myself (By August 1943, the flight commander of the 5th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (207th Fighter Aviation Division, 3rd Mixed Aviation Corps, 17th Air Army, South-Western Front) of the Guard, Second Lieutenant V. I. Popkov, made 168 sorties, participating in 45 air battles, personally shot down 17 enemy planes) what the sergeant said the phrase “here are only senior officers” could not find out either and why couldn’t it because it didn’t exist, huh? Especially since it appears that they shot pilots from the 5th Guards after all he saw the execution of pilots before the formation on August 23, 1942 near Stalingrad by personal order of G.K. Zhukov. I understand your desire to attribute G.K. Zhukov didn’t have that, all the more if such a thing had actually happened, hadn’t it really surfaced in 1946, when G.K. Zhukov was hanged by all the dogs? .. And it’s not the case for the representative of the rate to engage in executions, although if you want to, you can believe it, like the director who shot the film about attack aircraft, but it turned out that about fighters ...
            3. Avior 11 February 2020 18: 36 New
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              The quotations you quoted are not direct speech, the source is unknown, it is not known, it was written during his lifetime or after death, when he could not answer.
              I understand your desire to attribute G.K. Zhukov didn’t have that

              Do not understand at all. I have not the slightest desire to ascribe anything to anyone. , you rushed from all sides to refute, and supposedly OBS it, and the interview is fake and so on.
              I wrote only about who the source of the quoted quotation and nothing more, and wrote nothing about the fact that everything was word for word and generally did not concern Zhukov.
              And you just ascribe all this to me.
              you rushed with such fervor to refute the quote on all fronts that it seems you yourself think that Popkov’s statement is much higher than anonymous writing on the Internet, otherwise your excitement in this topic is not clear
              hi
  • lucul 10 February 2020 23: 53 New
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    Near Stalingrad, we, seven aces pilots, were invited to the military council.
    .....
    Is it true I do not know

    Do not read the Jews Russophobia, will not carry nonsense.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. lucul 11 February 2020 00: 12 New
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        But how then did the Germans reach Moscow from Brest to Moscow 1000 km? Where were the Stalinist falcons and our beautiful planes, why didn’t they kill the Germans.

        Chicks in the fall consider - did not hear such a saying? No ?
        If you draw an analogy with a football match - then what's the difference that you missed 3 goals in the first half, if the final score in the match is 3-5 in your favor?
        1. 1959ain 11 February 2020 00: 19 New
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          Quote: lucul
          If you draw an analogy with a football match - then what's the difference that you missed 3 goals in the first half, if the final score in the match is 3-5 in your favor?

          In this football match, we lost our native 20 million people, and so far this is happening sideways to our country. To the Germans, too, after the war, millions of Turks were brought to Germany, men, like us, were knocked out
          1. lucul 11 February 2020 00: 23 New
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            To the Germans, too, after the war, millions of Turks were brought to Germany, men, like us, were knocked out

            Not just as Germany was divided into East Germany and Germany)))
            All the lands of the GDR are Germanized Slavs, and from 1945 to 1990 they recovered well. But Germany is the land of historical Germans-and they imported millions of male Turks ....
  • Fitter65 11 February 2020 00: 42 New
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    Quote: 1959ain
    Near Stalingrad, we, seven aces pilots, were invited to the military council. AT

    Judging by the cited comment, you are an eyewitness to the cited event.
    Quote: 1959ain
    Is it true I do not know

    This is One Baba Said !. true or not, but the main thing is to crow, and there at least do not dawn.
    1. Avior 11 February 2020 01: 10 New
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      In this case, the guy said with a capital letter.
      Twice Hero of the Soviet Union pilot Vasily Popkov.
      Quote from his interview.
      hi
      1. Fitter65 11 February 2020 06: 55 New
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        In the history of the 5th Guards IAP, which was previously the 129th IAP, such a case is not mentioned from the word altogether. 4 pilots once without trial and investigation, three times haha. But if there was a case when 4 convicted pilots who were shot according to the sentence of the tribunal for cowardice, this is a slightly different color looms ...
        1. Avior 11 February 2020 08: 14 New
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          And on the Internet it says that it was the pilots who were shot, read carefully, Popkov writes that they shot officers, but not necessarily pilots, if the pilots were invited, others could be present there
      2. Fitter65 11 February 2020 14: 47 New
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        Quote: Avior
        In this case, the guy said with a capital letter.
        Twice Hero of the Soviet Union pilot Vasily Popkov.
        Quote from his interview.

        In short, V.I. Popkov is an interview with a girl with a speaking last name, Svetlana Samodelova, DID NOT. Below I went over some of her mistakes that she pacropal in her opus. Therefore, do not quote unverified information, especially from different Self Made ... hi
        1. Avior 11 February 2020 15: 56 New
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          in short, your statement that he allegedly did not give an interview does not stand up to criticism, since you have not presented any evidence.
          but there is evidence to the contrary, this is not the only interview where Popkov talks about this case.
          for example
          after the release of this order, we fell under the hot hand of Zhukov, who believed that we - seven unfortunate pilots should answer for the undivided domination of the Germans in the air. Zhukov persistently demanded that Zaitsev shoot us personally. To which our commander replied: “I don’t shoot my own! They are returning less and less from the sky. And I’m only shooting at the Germans ...” Zhukov completely lost his temper, and his people shot several officers who were unattractive before our eyes. disgusted him .....

          https://aif.ru/archive/1639790
          Maybe the case was not quite the same or some other circumstances that are not in the interview, but the fact that the description of this case comes from Popkva himself is not the slightest doubt, these are all examples of his lifetime interviews.
          Therefore, until you provide evidence, not your guesses, that the interviews are false in part of this case, there is no point in discussing something ...
          hi
  • Amateur 11 February 2020 06: 40 New
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    Vasily Zaitsev

    Vasily Zaitsev - the famous Stalingrad sniper. And for everything else it is necessary to ban.
    1. Fitter65 11 February 2020 12: 02 New
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      Quote: Amateur
      Vasily Zaitsev

      Vasily Zaitsev - the famous Stalingrad sniper. And for everything else it is necessary to ban.
      Do mercy teach history.
      Vasily Aleksandrovich Zaitsev (December 28, 1910 (January 10, 1911) ... During the Great Patriotic War he commanded an air squadron, was a navigator and deputy commander of a fighter aviation regiment, in 1942 - 1944 he was commander of the most effective enemy in the number of downed aircraft of the 5th guards fighter the air regiment of the 207th fighter aviation division of the 2nd Air Army, and in 1944-1945, the deputy commander of the 11th guards air division of the 3rd mixed aviation corps of the 17th air army of the 3rd Ukrainian wow front.

      He fought on the Western, Kalinin, Don, South - Western, 1, 2 and 3 - m Ukrainian fronts. It was a pilot - an ace with a capital letter, a master of combat at short distances, which he taught his subordinates. The regiment under his command had the largest number of pilots who received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. A “singing squadron” was born in his regiment, which was the prototype in Leonid Bykov’s film “Only Old Men Go into Battle”. For the entire period of the Great Patriotic War has never been shot down.

      For 115 successful sorties and participation in 16 air battles, in which he personally shot down 12 enemy aircraft, he was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union. Subsequently, for 299 sorties, in which he destroyed 22 aircraft, he was awarded the second Gold Star medal. In all, he made 427 sorties, in 163 air battles he shot down 34 enemy planes personally, 19 in a group battle.
      WHO WILL WE BAN?
  • Fitter65 11 February 2020 00: 38 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Penalty squadrons appeared according to the order No. 227 and were quite justified at that time.

    Can you give, for example, at least one penalty squadron? Just at what divisions, and who was the commander. It’s just how many I didn’t look for and did not find, not a single penal squadron, not a single tank platoon.
    1. Avior 11 February 2020 01: 14 New
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      Created from 9 September 1942, the penal squadrons were formed: assault - with the 206 th assault air division, fighter - with the 268 fighter aviation division and light bomber - with the 272 th bomber division.

      Directly in the divisions, the penal squadrons remained directly subordinate to the division commander, attaching to one of the regiments. For example, in the 206th assault air division, the squadron formed from fighters, quite firmly fused with the 811th assault regiment of a two-squadron formed already during the war. The command of the penalties was entrusted to one of the best pilots of this new unit, Captain Pyotr Fedoseevich Zabavskikh, who had previously led the combat squadron.

      https://topwar.ru/5532-shtrafnye-eskadrili.html
      Did you want to find it?
      hi
    2. Freeman 11 February 2020 01: 32 New
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      Quote: Fitter65
      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
      Penalty squadrons appeared according to the order No. 227 and were quite justified at that time.

      Can you give, for example, at least one penalty squadron? Just at what divisions, and who was the commander. It’s just how many I didn’t look for and did not find, not a single penalty squadron

      1.
      The penalty squadrons created since September 9, 1942 were formed: assault squadrons at the 206th assault air divisions, fighter squads at the 268th fighter squadrons and light bomber squads at the 272nd night bomber division
      https://topwar.ru/5532-shtrafnye-eskadrili.html

      2.
      Penalty Squadron Regulation


      link to a larger resolution:
      http://www.sammler.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2019/post-131-0-92052100-1562349755_thumb.jpg

      3.
      In the sky - penalty squadrons. Unknown Pages of the Great Victory
      / The plot of the 1st channel of May 9, 2006 /
      https://www.1tv.ru/news/2006-05-09/220919-v_nebe_shtrafnye_eskadrili_neizvestnye_stranitsy_velikoy_pobedy
      1. Freeman 11 February 2020 01: 54 New
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        Volnoper (Alexey) Today, 01:32

        Squadron commanders

        1. The commander of the penalty squadron at 206 Shad - Captain Peter Fedoseevich Zabavskikh

        2. The commander of the penal squadron at 268 IAD Senior Lieutenant Fedor Vasilievich Filipchenko

        3. The commander of the penalty squadron at 236 IAD Hero of the Soviet Union captain Mikhail Prokofievich Wild

        4. The commander of the penalty squadron at 272 nbad Senior Lieutenant Ivan Mikhailovich Semergey

        source:
        http://voenspez.ru/index.php?PHPSESSID=6ecf97059d11457cdb15a1972167faf3&topic=2066.msg21343#msg21343
        1. Fitter65 11 February 2020 06: 47 New
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          4 squadrons for all air forces? in 1943, such squadrons didn’t even remember more often
          ... Following the results of this battle, Lieutenant I. V. Fedorov "... for cowardice in the face of the enemy ...", and regiment commander Mayor Nikolayenkov "... for poor leadership of the regiment ..." by order of the commander of the 8th Air the army put on trial the military tribunal! But the corps commander, Major General E. Ya. Savitsky and the division commander, Colonel Karjagin, achieved a change in the wording of the order. This time, the reason for being sued was "... poor radio control of the battle ..."

          The meeting of the tribunal, which began at midnight, quickly turned into a farce, to play until the end which was not given to the regiment's political commander Major Pasynok and unit commanders. Therefore, the sentence was relatively “lenient,” Fedorov was sentenced to 8, and Nikolayenko to 10 years in prison, with the sentence being served after the end of the war. But the commander, E. Ya. Savitsky, once again intervened in the fate of his pilot: a brave general made sure that for every shot down enemy aircraft Ivan was removed by a year in prison and at the same time transferred the order of the corps to lieutenant Fedorov as “free hunters” and freed from tasks to cover ground troops and escort strike aircraft. Soon, 5 more German planes replenished his account, including 3 Ju-88 bombers

          This is not Ivan Evgrafovich. This is Ivan Vasilievich Fedorov.
    3. bubalik 11 February 2020 01: 48 New
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      The list of penal units of armored and mechanized forces,
      cavalry, air force and navy during the Great Patriotic War

      Provided by: List No. 33 of infantry units and subunits (individual battalions, companies and units) with the terms of their entry into the army during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of June 2, 1962 No. 203354.

      Armored and mechanized troops

      Separate penal company of the 1st Panzer Army - 22.02/12.03.1943/28.04/2.08.1943/2, 1943/294/XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX (on August XNUMX, XNUMX it was renamed the XNUMXth separate penal company).

      Separate penal company of the 3rd Tank Army - 28.08/18.09.1942/XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

      Separate penal company of the 5rd Tank Army - 23.09/25.10.1942/XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

      Separate penal company of the 5th Panzer Army (with the 266th Infantry Division of the 3rd formation) - 5.02−6.03.1943.

      1st separate penal company of the 4th tank, 65th army - 13.10−25.12.1942.

      2st separate penal company of the 4th tank, 65th army - 13.10−15.12.1942.

      5th separate penal company of the 2nd Panzer Army - 7.04−29.04.1943.

      The 5th separate penal company of the 5th Panzer Army - 23.09.1942/18.03.1943/18−1943 (on March 195, XNUMX it was renamed the XNUMXth separate penal company).

      The 131st separate penal company of the 21st, 5th Panzer Army - 21.10.1942−18.03.1943 (on March 18, 1943 it was renamed the 194th separate penal company).

      Cavalry

      214th cavalry regiment of the 63rd cavalry Korsun Red Banner Division - November 23, 1944 - February 1945

      Air Force
      (information on penal squadrons is incomplete and requires additional research)

      Group of fines of the 3rd Air Army.

      Fighter penal squadron at the 268th fighter air division of the 8th Air Army.

      Assault free squadron at the 206th assault air division of the 8th air army.

      Light-bombing penal squadron at the 272nd night bomber division of the 8th Air Army.

      Navy

      472th Penal Company (Danube Military Flotilla) - 30.11.1944/09.05.1945/21 - 1941/1945/2 (List No. 1960 of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Amur, Volga, Dnieper, Danube, Caspian, Onega, Pinsk and Peipsi military flotillas, which were part of the field army during the Great Patriotic War (170183−1960). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April 128, XNUMX No. XNUMX. M., XNUMX. S. XNUMX).

      487th Separate Penal Company of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet - 02.04.1943/02.02.1945/19-1941 (List No. 1945 of the control bodies, formations, ships, parts and institutions of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, Ladoga Military Flotilla and Ilmensky detachment of ships that were part of the Army in the period World War II (1960−153). M., XNUMX. S. XNUMX).

      610th Separate Penal Company of the Volga Military Flotilla - 18.10.1942/15.01.1943/21 - 1941/1945/2 (List No. 1960 of the governing bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Amur, Volga, Dnieper, Danube, Caspian, Onega, Pinsk and Peipsi naval flotilla, included as part of the army during the Great Patriotic War (170183−63). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April XNUMX, XNUMX No. XNUMX. P. XNUMX).

      The 612th Separate Penal Company of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet - 11.10.1942/31.03.1944/19−1941 (List No. 1945 of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, Ladoga Military Flotilla and Ilmensky detachment of ships that were part of the Army in the period World War II (153−XNUMX). S. XNUMX).

      The 613th Separate Penal Company of the Black Sea Fleet - September 06.09.1942, 16.09.1944– September 18, 1941 (List No. 1945 of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and establishments of the Black Sea Fleet and the Azov Military Flotilla, which were part of the Army in the Great Patriotic War (1960− 164) .M., XNUMX.S. XNUMX).

      614th separate penal company (Northern Fleet) - 17.09.1942/15.01.1945/17 - 1941/1945/2 (List No. 1960 of the command bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Northern Fleet and the White Sea military flotilla that were part of the Army in the Great Patriotic War ( 170183−1960). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April 111, XNUMX No. XNUMX. M., XNUMX. S. XNUMX).

      845th Penal Company of the Dnieper Military Flotilla - 24.12.1944−09.05.1945 (List No. 21 of the command, command, ships, units and institutions of the Amur, Volga, Dnieper, Danube, Caspian, Onega, Pinsk and Peipsi naval flotillies that were part of the composition of the army during the Great Patriotic War (1941−1945). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April 2, 1960 No. 170183. P. 88.).

      473th Penal Platoon (Danube Military Flotilla) - 30.11.1944/09.05.1945/21 - 1941/1945/2 (List No. 1960 of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Amur, Volga, Dnieper, Danube, Caspian, Onega, Pinsk and Peipsi naval flotillas, which were part of the army during the Great Patriotic War (170183−130). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April XNUMX, XNUMX No. XNUMX. P. XNUMX).

      587th Separate Penal Platoon of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet - 11.10.1942/02.02.1945/19 - 1941/1945/181 (List No. XNUMX of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, Ladoga Military Flotilla and Ilmensky detachment of ships that were part of the Army in the period World War II (XNUMX−XNUMX). S. XNUMX).

      588th Separate Penal Platoon (Black Sea Fleet) - 24.11.1942/16.09.1944/18-1941 (List No. 1945 of the governing bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Black Sea Fleet and the Azov Military Flotilla, which were part of the Army in the Great Patriotic War ( 192−XNUMX) .P. XNUMX).

      589th Separate Penal Platoon of the Northern Defensive Region - 17.09.1942/10.02.1945/17 - 1941/1945/2 (List No. 1960 of the command bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Northern Fleet and the White Sea Naval Flotilla that were part of the Army in the Great Patriotic War (170183 −128). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April XNUMX, XNUMX No. XNUMX. P. XNUMX).

      732th penal platoon of the Dnieper military flotilla - 14.09.1943/01.03.1944/21−1941 (List No. 1945 of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Amur, Volga, Dnieper, Danube, Caspian, Onega, Pinsk and Peipsi naval flotilla, included in the composition of the army during the Great Patriotic War (2−1960). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April 170183, 89 No. XNUMX. P. XNUMX).

      846th penal platoon of the Dnieper military flotilla - 24.12.1944/09.05.1945/21−1941 (List No. 1945 of the control bodies, formations, ships, units and institutions of the Amur, Volga, Dnieper, Danube, Caspian, Onega, Pinsk and Peipsi naval flotilla, included in the composition of the army during the Great Patriotic War (2−1960). Appendix to the Directive of the General Staff of April 170183, 90 No. XNUMX. P. XNUMX).
  • Mihail2019 10 February 2020 22: 33 New
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    Yeah, and bury his whole family alive, as you, Bandera’s, did.
    For the sake of the loyalty of the rest of the population.
    It is only with you, in Lviv region, all through the devil understand what is being done.
    And the concept of Homeland is unknown to you - a hut "from the edge", that's the whole "birthmark" ..
    No family, no homeland, no flag!
    One word - fatherlessness!
  • lucul 11 February 2020 00: 04 New
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    in order to overcome the fear of our pilots before the German aces, I had to shoot some sort of aviation commander

    Haifa Detected.
    Well, or another nestling of Khodorkovsky, although he may not even know the owner ....
  • svp67 11 February 2020 03: 42 New
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    Quote: 1959ain
    In Stalingrad, in order to overcome the fear of our pilots before the German aces, I had to shoot some kind of aviation commander and create penalty squadrons

    So right in Stalingrad and they were created?
  • Prisoner 10 February 2020 23: 24 New
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    The battle is not for history, but a battle with history. Mattresses, Poles, bandervah, Balts all shobla somehow connected with the Nazis decided to redraw the story. And our local "creative" and liberal collaborators also pulled themselves into this coven.
  • lucul 11 February 2020 12: 55 New
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    such is the time, the battle for history

    As always-Russian versus God's chosen ones)))
  • Stas57 10 February 2020 20: 14 New
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    In this series, the author struggling with some gives birth to other myths.
    1. Stas57 10 February 2020 21: 26 New
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      It is not very clear why to decorate if the pilots (not otherwise the OUN men and Goebbels agents) wrote themselves:
      Dudnik Nikolai Denisovich

      True, in the fall I had to transfer to LaGG-3. At first I did not like flying on it, but then I got used to it. After all, how is it? It took off, removed the chassis, and then, before climbing to a height, it is necessary to go on a shaver in a straight line to gain speed.

      Did they knock me down? Yes, once on LaGG-3


      The general opinion was expressed by the famous pilot ace D.A. Kudymov, who began to fight on LaGG-3: “We looked enviously at those who were fortunate enough to fly on aircraft designed by Yakovlev - Yak-1

      Isaenko, who served in the 267th IAP and became in 1942 the Hero of the Soviet Union, recalled:

      “The main disadvantages of this fighter were poor visibility of the rear hemisphere and weak armor protection. LaGG-3 was somewhat inferior to the "Messer" in speed, therefore, in a vertical maneuver. When getting acquainted with the machine, the peculiar shape of the fuselage, which gave the wits a reason to call the fighter “ram with caviar”, and the prohibitively large tail wheel were striking. Pilots who mastered the fighter poorly did not skimp on it, categorically claimed that LaGG-3 was not able to withstand enemy fighters ... In fact, LaGG had significant advantages in addition to its shortcomings: the car had an exceptionally reliable engine, the fighter it was easier to manage than, say, the MiG-3, perfectly performed aerobatics ... "


      Sinaisky Viktor Mikhailovich

      The most unpleasant plane is LaGG-3. Oh, an unpleasant plane! Heavy, with a weak, delicate M-105 engine. The pilots did not like to fly to LaGG-3, but then they got used to it - well, what to do. True, armed with a cannon, and Davidkov even managed to shoot down on it. In the 42nd year was a very difficult period, and LaGG-3 still behaved with dignity. But we had more losses than on the I-16. The preparation of LaGG-3 for the departure required the most time compared to other aircraft.

      All engine cylinders must work synchronously - God forbid to knock out the gas distribution! We were strictly forbidden to climb there! Here the ASh-82 has a gas distribution on each cylinder - it is easy to configure. In winter, with water-cooled motors, there was a lot of trouble. There was no antifreeze. You won’t drive the engine all night, you had to fill it with hot water in the morning.
      But when in the 43rd we had La-5 - everyone breathed a sigh of relief.


      veteran of the 107th GIAP Ivan Ivanovich Kozhemyako.
      It happened like this - when taxiing the “dutik” of “LaGGa” fell into a rut. The instructor abruptly “gazanul” to jump out of a rut, the “dutik” curled up. Together with the "dutik", the reinforcing frame curled up and the stringer broke. The fighter broke in half. Of course, we ran to see - yo! everything is wooden! - stringer, central spar, frames, - in general, that's all! “This is the technique! ..” Therefore, LaGG was so heavy, because it was all made of wood. We already had little trust in this fighter, but we looked at it from the inside and the remaining trust in LaGG disappeared completely. What kind of aircraft is this, which you can easily break in half ?! Flights to LaGG were banned, because we did not have the ability to fully repair it. Maybe it turned out for the best that they did not begin to study this “LaGG”, otherwise it is not known which regiment I would later go to and which materiel. (Fight on "LaGG" - God forbid!) "
      1. Mihail2019 10 February 2020 22: 49 New
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        In two memories, completely different ratings of the M-105 engine.
        Exactly the same stood on the Yak-1.
        Conclusion: mechanics were different.
        Further, about ASH-82: what does "gas distribution" mean ?! What kind of concept is this ?! Does this minder write? Or a collective farm clerk?
        "It was possible to configure" - what ?! Valve timing set by camshaft from factory! You can only change the valve clearance!
        Nonsense from the clerk !!!
        Any kid who knows the motor of a moped will say that it is written utter BAD !!!
      2. Fitter65 11 February 2020 12: 55 New
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        Quote: Stas57
        veteran of the 107th GIAP Ivan Ivanovich Kozhemyako.
        It happened like this - when taxiing the “dutik” of “LaGGa” fell into a rut. The instructor abruptly “gazanul” to jump out of a rut, the “dutik” curled up. Together with the "dutik", the reinforcing frame curled up and the stringer broke. The fighter broke in half. Of course, we ran to see - yo! everything is wooden! - stringer, central spar, frames, - in general, that's all! “This is the technique! ..” Therefore, LaGG was so heavy, because it was all made of wood. We already had little trust in this fighter, but we looked at it from the inside and the remaining trust in LaGG disappeared completely. What kind of aircraft is this, which you can easily break in half ?! Flights to LaGG were banned, because we did not have the ability to fully repair it. Maybe it turned out for the best that they did not begin to study this “LaGG”, otherwise it is not known which regiment I would later go to and which materiel. (Fight on "LaGG" - God forbid!)

        Only you forgot to indicate that this incident occurred at the school, where they overtook LaGG-3, which almost flied out its resource (according to the glider).
        To justify LaGG-3, I give examples as well
        Gerhard Barkhorn ( goes the second by postscript after Hartman) recalled that in1942 on the Stalingrad Front he turned a carousel with a lone LaGG-3 for almost 40 minutes, the score was 0-0.
        N.I. Skomorokhov in his memoirs he describes how in the first combat mission he circled a carousel with 6 Messers, returned without a single hole.
        A.M. Kulagin shot down 3 German planes on LaGG-26. 249 IAPs until February, in which Kulagin fought, received LaGG-3 in February 1943, before that he fought on the Yak-1.
        The record for the number of downed aircraft on LaGG-3 in one battle belongs D.P. Nazarenko of the 131st IAP, which shot down 4 BF-109s in the fall of 1942 on the North Caucasian Front, there are 32 victories in all.
        August 9, 1942 lieutenant A.Sukov out of 41 IAPs on LaGG-3 shot down BF-109 Max Osterman (recorded 102 victories) on September 18 in a group battle of LaGGI, the 41st IAP shot down Hauptmann G. Findeisen (67 applications). 19.01/1943. XNUMX Art. lt Kaberov of the 3rd Baltic Fleet Guards and Infantry Regiment brought down Lieutenant Walter Meyer (58 applications) ...
        1. va3610 11 February 2020 13: 16 New
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          You can argue on this topic endlessly, and there were already all these disputes on Sukhoi, but in general where only they were not, it all depends on the gasket between the RUS and the back of the seat and was shot down on the I-16 FV-190.
        2. Stas57 11 February 2020 15: 14 New
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          And I have 30 cm and all women cry)))
          Great, but we have a massive army, and not airborne expert aircraft.
          And they loved Yak and La.
          These were cars adequate to the Germans.
          The moral is simple, you are going to write a video, do not take a dull moment and lag, take yak and la.
        3. Stas57 11 February 2020 15: 42 New
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          even so:
          Yes, our aircraft of the initial period were worse than Me and Fv, because civil, hunger, poverty, "catch up in 20 years," and so on, but our pilots were even able to defeat a strong enemy with them. Honor and glory to them!
          but pulling on superLAGG, which even poor beggars before 46 years of age have used, is pulling a skin on an owl.
      3. lucul 11 February 2020 12: 59 New
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        The general opinion was expressed by the famous pilot ace D.A. Kudymov, who began to fight on LaGG-3: “We looked enviously at those who were lucky enough to fly on aircraft of the Yakovlev-Yak-1 design

        But the Japanese remained very high on the captured LaGG-3, they really liked it .....
        It was not LaGG that was so bad, and Me.109 was too good for 1941, and against its background many fighters looked like flying coffins, both English and American.
        1. Stas57 11 February 2020 15: 11 New
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          So what do they offer us?
          Compare not with 109 and 190 but with Finns, oh my God, they even had before the age of 46, with donkeys together.
          This pull, for the sake of the idea, although the flyers loved yak and la
    2. Mihail2019 10 February 2020 22: 39 New
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      I watched the series - I don’t understand what, but the perception cut something !!! And here the author explained well - we’ll arrange the accent here, we’ll hint here - you look, and you will have to apologize for your grandfather and great-grandfather. But not to you - but to your son ..
  • Cowbra 10 February 2020 20: 14 New
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    Not at all about airplanes. but about myths ... German "ordnung" in real life:
    Commander 2 tank. Armies
    Army Headquarters
    November 17.10.41, XNUMX
    Army Order

    ... The discipline of individual drivers in connection with poor roads unacceptably weakened. Until now, the tank Army has not yet seen gross disobedience to the commanders and the absence of a concept of private property ...
    I DEMAND from all superiors to restore discipline again immediately and with the strictest measures.

    GUDERIAN

    SS Regiment Nordland
    30.09.41
    Special order to commanders and unit heads

    During the passage of an empty motorcade of the regiment through Kermenchug in the direction of Podgorny, an intolerant position in the Nordland regiment was revealed.
    The entire composition of the 1st battalion by car reached its destination with little loss, despite battles along the way.
    Motor convoys of the 2nd and 3rd battalions arrived with losses equal to 50% or more, and the 16th company even with losses of 70% ...
    According to reports, it was established that the discipline on the march was completely unsatisfactory, in the 11th and 12th companies it was exceptionally bad, but worst of all in the 16th company.
    The idiotic, reckless driving, overtaking some cars by others, the lack of an elementary understanding of the technique of movement ... Unterofitsery, knowing the fuel ... showed themselves in most cases as saboteurs and irresponsible villains ...
    In the so-called "technical service" reigned laziness of the worst kind ...
    ... As a result, the fighting of the regiment is currently impossible ...
    ... With regard to drivers ... it is necessary to act mercilessly, taking the most stringent measures to them ... It is completely intolerable that a handful of irresponsible fraudsters dishonor the honor of our regiment ...

    "SS" Standartenfuhrer and regiment commander Scholz
  • DMB 75 10 February 2020 20: 20 New
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    History has already been rewritten. Judging by the new interpretations, the war was won by the penal battalions, driven into battle by the NKVD officers.

    No, the Americans won the war with all sorts of French ...
    When in 1945 the Allies included France among the signatories of the act of unconditional surrender of Germany, the representative of the Third Reich, General Wilhelm Keitel, exclaimed pathetically:
    "How ?! And these too defeated us, or what?"
    How surprised he would be if he knew that the Anglo-Saxons and France defeated Germany and its allies without the participation of the USSR. Now they successfully rewrite history. Today, the Japanese sincerely believe that it was Hiroshima and Nagasaki that turned the USSR into ashes ...
    1. fruit_cake 10 February 2020 20: 26 New
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      you will be surprised, but in polls on the streets, the Americans say that Germany or France won the war, and the Americans themselves fought against the Communists
      1. Lipchanin 10 February 2020 22: 18 New
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        They are there and not such nonsense. YouTube has plenty of street polls
        It seems that in schools they do not teach history and geography at all
        1. fruit_cake 10 February 2020 22: 19 New
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          education is a privilege of the elite all for money, it was the bloody Bolsheviks who gave everyone a normal free education, there it’s just business
          1. Lipchanin 10 February 2020 22: 23 New
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            Primary education is free everywhere. History and geography belong to them.
            1. fruit_cake 10 February 2020 22: 24 New
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              the quality is obviously different
              1. Lipchanin 10 February 2020 22: 26 New
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                Quote: fruit_cake
                the quality is obviously different

                and desire to learn
                1. fruit_cake 10 February 2020 22: 33 New
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                  ours doesn’t have a desire, it’s just that the USA didn’t even defeat everyone there, and they don’t even know that the war was there, well, there
                  1. Lipchanin 10 February 2020 22: 35 New
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                    Quote: fruit_cake
                    , but they don’t even know what the war was, well, something was okay there

                    Yes, and I'm talking about it. Quality education once, reluctance to study two
  • dmmyak40 10 February 2020 20: 41 New
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    LaGG-3 was great as a drummer. As an air combat fighter - not really.
    About the Lacquered Guaranteed Coffin. If I am not mistaken, during the test the plane was called a grand piano for the dark cherry color of the varnish. Just because the nickname is also not given.
    Guardsmen at the KBF and Black Sea Fleet were given LaGGi due to the fact that they could squeeze the maximum out of it. "Zhelotorotikov" plant in LaGG ..., better in Yak. Igor Kaberov at the KBF at LaGG, sort of flew ...
    1. Dur_mod 10 February 2020 21: 08 New
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      If I’m not mistaken, according to Arkhipenko’s recollections, then he really appreciated his LaGG: - When flying up to a city, you often see a woeful picture - the YAK embraced by fire falls, and it was very difficult to set our LaGGs on fire, and the difference from the YAK ...
      1. dmmyak40 10 February 2020 22: 51 New
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        Yes, LaGG burned badly.
        The author of the video also says that LaGG arrived in the unit until 1944, they say, they will not drive a bad plane to the front. But this is not so! In the part were those planes that were mastered by industry.
        The same Amet-Khan Sultan flew until 1942 on the "Seagull" not because she could successfully work on both fighters and bombers. It’s just that there were no other planes - they fought with what was.
        1. kapitan92 10 February 2020 23: 48 New
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          Quote: dmmyak40
          The same Amet-Khan Sultan flew until 1942 on the "Seagull" not because she could successfully work on both fighters and bombers. It’s just that there were no other planes - they fought with what was.

          By the time of fierce fighting in the sky of Voronezh and Stalingrad, Amet-Khan had successfully mastered and used to the limit all the potential combat capabilities of the I-15, I-16, I-153, Hurricane, Yak-1, Yak-7b fighters.

          Over the Kuban, Rostov-on-Don, Taganrog, Melitopol, Crimea, the Sultan fought on the American "Aerocobra".
          Over East Prussia and Berlin, he fought on the newest La-7. On this fighter Amet-Khan also set his last point in the Great Patriotic War, on April 29, 1945, having shot down his last - Fw-190 over the capital Tempelhof airfield.
          hi
        2. Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 10: 41 New
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          Quote: dmmyak40
          Yes, LaGG burned badly.


          And LaGG-3 maneuvered and even worse, he lost the Bf-109F both vertically and horizontally, that is, had to conduct defensive battles. In order not to be shot down - a group tactic was important, with which until the middle of the war it was not good in the Red Army Air Force.
    2. 1959ain 10 February 2020 21: 32 New
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      Quote: dmmyak40
      Guardsmen at the KBF and Black Sea Fleet were given LaGGi due to the fact that they could squeeze the maximum out of it. "Zhelotorotikov" plant in LaGG ..., better in Yak. Igor Kaberov at the KBF at LaGG, sort of flew ...

      The Germans already had 41 fighters with injection engines (fuel injection), and ours went on carburetor engines. Therefore, the Germans beat ours on the verticals, they could almost vertically, that the top would go down from our hawks, and in these modes the engines stalled. Even in England and the USA in 1941 there were no injection engines.
    3. AU Ivanov. 10 February 2020 21: 52 New
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      According to the glider, the car was not bad, but the engine was rather weak. But after installing the ASH-82 and a number of improvements, the magnificent La-5 turned out.
      And, yes, from my grandfather, a transport pilot during the war, I heard the nickname LaGG - the piano: "We are going over Ladoga and a couple of naval" grand pianos "in cover"
  • Whalebone 10 February 2020 21: 37 New
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    99 out of 100 films about the Great Patriotic War are made with budget money. The customer is the state (Ministry of Culture + Temniks from AP). Payers are grateful viewers. Tickets, though we bought it, they were given "to the load." So "do not shoot the pianist" (director), he removes how (not) knows how. And yes, there’s not enough money in the film’s budget for consultants on equipment, weapons, uniforms, emaciated persons (just laughing at a bunch of well-fed partisans in some kind of scout series yesterday), because half of the funding is taken back right away, another half - in the process, as a result, pennies remain. These are not jokes and gossip, the acquaintance writes scripts almost for food (150-200 thousand rubles for the project).
  • Aleks2000 10 February 2020 21: 43 New
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    It is necessary to separate anti-Soviet ideas in films and real things.

    As I know, the theme “we fly on firewood” popped up three times then - before the war (Levers, shot, like all 5 first Air Force commanders), during the war (progress, exiled to the Far East), after the war - Vasily Stalin himself declared .

    And, alas, anti-Soviet propaganda and liberalism is an official position.
    Naked performances, naked ballets, Putin and Pushkov - "such a liberal and a democrat, such that it is harder to find steeper than him" (verbatim)
  • Van 16 10 February 2020 21: 51 New
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    Who about what ... I don’t know if there is firewood or not firewood, but who won is right, right? I watch old Soviet films with great pleasure, and Heavenly slow-moving, and the Chronicles of a dive bomber, and of course, only "old men" go into battle. These are very powerful films, and this is only about pilots.
    1. Reptiloid 10 February 2020 23: 01 New
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      In old films, everything is vital.
      In new ones, I often notice some ambiguous, or even vile subtext, that’s the main thing. To destroy faith in feats, faith in the true heroism of Soviet people.
      I personally do not care about manicure, I would not pay attention, although this is wrong, of course.
      But my mother sometimes watches TV shows about life under the king. No, she does not watch them whole. She taunts how well serfs dressed, and ordinary people too.
      And the landowners respectfully talked with the serfs and got married.
      There is no need to go to the bathhouse or to the hayloft, but they’re down the aisle. As though they often got married, there are different series, the environment did not ostracize for this, that lies
      At the same time, it is known when Count Sheremetyev wanted to marry the former serf — everyone turned away.
      So we are seeing a trend. What happened during the USSR ---- is redone for the worse, and what happened during the tsar --- is redone for the better.
      True, the piece about Rasputin looked, everything was “decently” “in that piece.
  • Tochilka 10 February 2020 22: 42 New
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    In fairness, the Finns were able to restore only three LaGGs to flight condition. All of them were of different series. And they never had more than one machine ready for flight.
  • rocket757 10 February 2020 23: 18 New
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    For a long time there was no such gap, why did it suddenly come out?
    In the picture, just a model, covered in percale! This could be found at that time, except that at U 2 ... you can put the minus to the studio requisites, you can use the entire film crew, you can use the Ministry of Culture, no difference.
    After that muck, which is the romanticization of blatata and hurricanes, I am not surprised at anything and HATE! And then oh and oh, we have AUE and other indecency divorced!
    The state, the ruling class, the SYSTEM, is busy with two things, fooling the electorate and ... in short, its pocket closer to their belly.
    Yes, beautifully, sweetly chirping from high stands ... tfu, habit, from TV SCREENS, of course, only everyday and state affairs tell us a lot of things! In our country, ordinary capitalism and power only serve the interests of the ruling class ... nothing unexpected, in general.
    And to our, MY, ancestors our great great respect !!! Because they are in the most difficult conditions of confrontation with the entire capitalist world and its worst generation, German fascism, for which ALL GEYROPA worked, overseas and other guardians supported him !!!
    That, contrary to all of them, created GOOD BATTLE EQUIPMENT and they beat all the enemies on it, not sparing themselves and without mercy !!!!
    Glory to our HEROES, SAVIORS of the WORLD from fascist dishonesty soldier
    PS ... about, I don’t even want to argue, it's so disgusting, t-fu.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. lucul 11 February 2020 00: 01 New
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        And you don’t know

        Are you really an amateur in aviation?
        You have collected here all the cliches that exist. Yes, even from our women I did not hear such nonsense about the war.
        Are you sure you grew up in Russia?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. lucul 11 February 2020 00: 06 New
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            This is not me so they write on the Internet Awful Yak-3. Weak weapons, armor, range.

            Indeed - and how on this one could tear into the trash, the famous German aces in Gustav))))
            1. Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 11: 11 New
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              Quote: lucul
              Indeed - and how on this one could tear into the trash, the famous German aces in Gustav))))


              At the cost of heavy losses
              1. lucul 11 February 2020 12: 50 New
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                At the cost of heavy losses

                And did the Yak-3 have a lot of losses? )))
                1. Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 16: 37 New
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                  Quote: lucul
                  And did the Yak-3 have a lot of losses? )))


                  Both combat and non-combat:
                  After the pilots completed the development of new equipment in October 1944, the squadron commander I.V. Fedorov was instructed to conduct tactical exercises and show the advantages of the Yak-3 over the Yak-1b and Yak-9T fighters, on which the regiment had fought before. The event was completed by a “bomber attack” (it was imitated by a cone towed behind the Yak-9), four “old” “yaks” covered the target. A pair of Yak-3 young pilots Lopatin and Viktorovich “tied the cover” in battle, and lieutenants Dergachev and Tyulenev, who had also recently entered the regiment, attacked the cone. The very first turn of Nikolai Dergachev hit the target, she wobbled, and he sharply turned away so as not to hit the “cone” and let Tyulenev shoot back. Suddenly, Commander Karjagin, who was observing from the ground, the regiment commander Popov, and the pilots of the unit saw that one console of the maneuvering fighter was detached. When Dergachev was able to get out of the cab, it was too late to open the parachute. Crouching in a lump, his body hit the ground, and it was all over ... It was clear that the overload could not be more than 5-6 units. The factory commission determined that the reason was insufficient wing strength. The received aircraft were sent to PARM near Brest, where they were already fulfilling the factory bulletin on strengthening the wing on other Yak-3s.
                  In order to improve the strength of the wing in the fall of 1944, OKB-115 issued a bulletin according to which the aircraft were finalized. The commander of the 16th Air Army, General S. I. Rudenko, recalls the Yak-3 as follows: “The chief engineer of the army, General Rebrov, is the commander of the corps (3rd IAK, assigned to the operational headquarters of the 16th VA. - Auth.) Savitsky perfectly organized work. Nevertheless, it took a whole month to eliminate the defect on all machines.


                  Despite such a significant drawback as weak strength, losses of the Yak-3 were relatively small.
                  In total, in 1944, the decline in aircraft of this type amounted to 90 aircraft:
                  including 56 did not return from sorties, but the causes of death were known only for fourteen cases - seven were shot down by enemy fighters and anti-aircraft guns. Three aircraft were retired for wear, and 31 - crashed in accidents and disasters.
                  Such a high accident rate of the Yak-3 (34,4%!) Bothered OKB.
                  Non-combat decline of the Yak-9 with VK-105PF for the same period was only 25,9%, I
                  K-9U VK-107A - 11,1%,
                  Yak-1 - 18,1%,
                  Aerocobra - 27,4%.
                  But his main rival, Lavochkin, the situation was even worse.
                  Share of flight accidents in losses more difficult to pilot La-5FN reached 35,6%, and La-7 - 38,7%.
                  Although Yakovlev and his subordinates sought at all costs to maintain the weight of the serial Yak-3, I had to deal with strengthening the design of both newly built and already commissioned aircraft. Their mass increased slightly, nevertheless, the aerobatic qualities of the strengthened Yak-3 remained at a very high level, which was confirmed by two young pilots from the 812th IAP, who got the Yak-3, who underwent field revision to strengthen the airframe.

                  Content Source: https://naukatehnika.com/istrebitel-yak-3-soldat-pobedy-chast-2.html
                  naukatehnika.com is for those who care about the history of aviation.
                  You can not read lucul (Vitaliy) - in your terminology, science and technology are also “Russophobes”. So I understand there is your "correct opinion" and other "Russophobes" ...
                  1. lucul 11 February 2020 16: 48 New
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                    You can not read lucul (Vitaliy) - in your terminology, science and technology are also “Russophobes”. So I understand there is your "correct opinion" and other "Russophobes" ...

                    There are no words ....
                    In total, how many losses were on the Yak-3? Compared to other planes? Its combat effectiveness was utterly better than all previous designs, which allowed it to perform the combat mission better, despite all the design flaws.
                    What's wrong ? Or have you been brainwashed by propaganda so far back in the USSR - that you can only see dirt and impurities in our minds?
                    Picture in topic
        2. dmmyak40 11 February 2020 00: 24 New
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          From the last posts of a friend with ami, I realized that he looks very much like a bot ...
          1. lucul 11 February 2020 00: 26 New
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            I realized that he looks very much like a bot.

            Yes, he earns a living by fasting, they have a fixed rate ....
            1. 1959ain 11 February 2020 00: 51 New
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              Quote: lucul
              Yes, he earns a living by fasting, they have a fixed fee

              I just want to talk about the feat of our fathers, how they did in such rubbish, seasoned aces of German aviation. And let the Americans howl, but our Russian pilots are the best in the world, they can win the war on a broomstick and don’t help the BurJuins any F-16s and F-35s, we beat them and we will beat them drinks
              1. dmmyak40 11 February 2020 11: 16 New
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                Strange you, Mr. Bot, are talking about the feat of our fathers and grandfathers. According to Stanislavsky: I do not believe it!
        3. Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 11: 30 New
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          Quote: lucul
          Are you really an amateur in aviation?
          You have collected here all the cliches that exist. Yes, even from our women I did not hear such nonsense about the war.
          Are you sure you grew up in Russia?


          You probably only know the heroized mythologized history of the aviation of the USSR?
          Only the amateur does not know that the speed of the Y-3 at the dive was limited to 700 km / h, since the aircraft had plywood sheathing of the wing and if the speed of the dive was exceeded, at the exit from the peak, the sheath could break, which usually ended in disaster.

          If you want to believe in some special story, convenient, ideal and ... full of myths - this is your right.
          But many are trying to get to the truth and, if desired, is possible - information is available about the shortcomings of the Yak-3
          1. lucul 11 February 2020 12: 54 New
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            You probably only know the heroized mythologized history of the aviation of the USSR?

            Another Russophobe))))
            All the advantages and disadvantages of our fighters of the Second World War, I know enough, without any propaganda ....
            1. Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 15: 49 New
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              Quote: lucul
              All the advantages and disadvantages of our fighters of the Second World War, I know enough, without any propaganda ....


              You should hang up the master labels - I worked on the country's military-industrial complex and calculated more than one spatial frame for aircraft. And I’m not saying that I know the history of aviation in the USSR well.

              The constructor knows well.

              As for the Yak-3
              The wing had a metal frame spars, ribs and plywood sheathing. Like on the Yak-9, the casing was glued to special plywood linings riveted to the metal frame. The experience of combat use has shown that such a connection is not strong enough.

              http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak3.html
              With the Clark YH profile used, the maximum speed to which you can “delay” the onset of the “wave crisis” is 720 km / h, which in fact was a limitation for the Yak. Then began the shaking of the structure and the increased vacuum on the wing, tearing off the upper skin.


              And you don’t even know the elementary basics - an expert was found.
              1. lucul 11 February 2020 15: 59 New
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                And you don’t even know the elementary basics - an expert was found.

                I painted you about LAGG-3 below.
                Regarding the Yak-3 - only Me.3 K (Elector) could fight on equal terms with Yak-109, Gustav definitely lost to him - and this with a more powerful engine on Gustav.
                As for 700 km / h on Yak - it is not designed for such speeds at all, it has a structural failure limit of 800 km / h. And all due to the fact that the Yak was developed under the weak M-105 engine for 1 hp, with which it was difficult to achieve such speeds. Under high speeds and under high altitude, the MiG-000 was already developed, there the design was enough for such speeds.
                At the end of the war, at speeds of 700 km / h he could fly, and most importantly - only the P-51D Mustang could control it well at such speeds. Me.109 at a speed of 700 km / h completely rudder wheels and he almost could not control at this speed - he could only leave with a dive and that’s all.
                1. Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 16: 56 New
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                  Quote: lucul
                  Regarding the Yak-3 - only Me.3 K (Elector) could fight on equal terms with Yak-109, Gustav definitely lost to him - and this with a more powerful engine on Gustav.


                  Given the fact that the Electors fought mainly on the Western Front.

                  You are just the same "captain evidence":
                  In horizontal flight, the serial Yak-3 overtook the Bf 5G-500 to an altitude of 109 m, which can be called the best German fighter in terms of its set of combat characteristics, with an advantage of about 10 km / h at the 4 m level, and near the ground from 000 to 30 km / h, depending on whether there was an afterburner on a German fighter. The lightweight “four-point” FW 70A-20 of 190 release could catch the Yak-8 only above 1944 m, by 3 m it was 5 km / h behind, and by the ground by as much as 750. “Long-nosed” FW 4D-000 gained an advantage over the Yak-50 above 70 m, yielding 190 km / h at an altitude of 9 km, and 3 on the ground. As for our fighters, the Yak-5 could outrun the La-000 of most series in speed, but there were such that they allowed this only in a narrow range of heights from 4 to 35 m, yielding to the Yak-25U VK-3A at all heights.


                  Content Source: https://naukatehnika.com/istrebitel-yak-3-soldat-pobedy-chast-2.html
                  naukatehnika.com

                  Given the injection of a water-methanol mixture, which was installed on the vast majority of Bf-109G by 1944.
                  Bf-109G could take off in a dive from the Yak-3
                  At the same time, the Yak-3, like the previous Yakovlev fighters, could neither catch up with the Bf 109 of the latest modifications or the FW 190D-9 at a dive, nor get away from them in this way. If the enemy was on the tail, there was only one way out - turn around on him.
                  1. lucul 11 February 2020 17: 29 New
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                    You are just the same "captain evidence":

                    So you still see only dirt and sewage ....
                    The MiG-3 had serious advantages over the German Messerschmitt not only in height and speed ... But in the very first months of the war, it turned out that German pilots on Messerschmitt fighters, which had a lower altitude than the MiG, did not want to fight at those heights. where they are weaker than MiGs. On the contrary, they sought to start all the battles at low altitude, where the heavier MiG lost in maneuver, while the Nazis imposed on us at altitudes of up to three thousand meters most of the air battles

                    The Germans did not climb to a height - they simply did not physically climb - and you flood me about the superiority of the Gustavs at high altitude over the Yak-3.
                    Given your work, and with such a negative to all of our - you can say - that you have done more harm than good.
      2. rocket757 11 February 2020 00: 11 New
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        Do you think the messer or the fokker needed to be pierced with a javelin?
        The same bayonet through and through.
        There really poorly penetrated, in addition to the motor, was multi-layered, and the back of the aluminum armor and EVERYTHING.
        Messer, problems at first and then had enough, it was a decent, but not perfect car.
        However, REALLY Belligerent countries did not create ideal machines during the war at all, THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE !!! Hurry, lack of resources and much more.
        Towards the end of the war, in countries conquering and not subjected to TOTAL DESTRUCTION, equipment of a higher class and quality was already being created.
        This is the simple logic of war and production ... first, what is possible, and then WHAT IS NECESSARY!
  • ANB
    ANB 11 February 2020 01: 18 New
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    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    IPhone, he's American!

    Read the inscription on the box.
    Made in China laughing
  • Boar38 11 February 2020 03: 31 New
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    There were a lot of metal planes, for example, the French Kadron-714, the British Mosquito, and the German Me-109G is far from completely metal ..
  • Vasily Ponomarev 11 February 2020 09: 48 New
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    Quote: Varyag_0711
    Vasily Ponomarev (twin pix)
    can you show my "ideological" comments and say where I am wrong, or how?
    I apologize for interfering in your conversation. Although the question was not addressed to me, I was not too lazy and ran over your comments. Typically, you have extremely mean comments, I almost did not find a single one detailed. And in all the comments it shows that everything is bad in Russia, but if it is about the USA or NATO, then everything is fine there.
    So Alexander Suvorov is right, you are a real ideological fighter against Russia.

    so give an example
  • Dmitry V. 11 February 2020 11: 05 New
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    the tenacious myth of "flying tombs", as well as the myth of "flying wood" is considered. Pseudo-experts like to endow such epithets with the means of Soviet military aviation during the Great Patriotic War, with the emphasis on the fact that Nazi Germany had aircraft “better, better and more reliable”.


    This is not a myth - LaGG-3 in terms of vertical maneuverability and horizontal maneuverability was inferior to Bf-109F and especially Bf-109G - naturally, having low thrust-to-weight ratio with a large mass and a large moment of inertia.



    The frankly unsuccessful choice of material - delta wood (DSP-10) - to ensure comparable strength with duralumin - the mass of loaded parts is up to three times more - the wing spar made of delta wood was especially critical for the wing, until it was replaced on the La-5 with a lighter steel structure that partially solved the problem.
    The thrust-to-weight ratio improved significantly with the installation of the Al-82 / F / FN engine, but the inertia due to the selected material remained in the La-7.

    Prior to the war, phenolic adhesives for DSP-10 delta wood were purchased, including in Germany (!).
    Domestic adhesives were of the worst quality; they had to be modified during the war, which further worsened the weight characteristics of the LaGG-3 of 1942 (the turn time was more than 5 seconds more than that of the Bf-109F (!).
    After the outbreak of the war, most of the harvested aviation wood remained in the occupied areas, it was necessary to re-produce and dry wood suitable for aviation.
    Since deltadrevesin was actively gaining moisture, the material was short-lived, actively mold and rot, losing strength properties, which is why after the war the remaining La-7 were written off very quickly.

    All this has been repeatedly discussed on this site - once again to prove to someone that the Soviet aircraft at the initial stage of the war were inferior to the Bf-109F, in the middle of the war the BF-109G.
    1. dmmyak40 11 February 2020 11: 18 New
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      Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
      Frankly unsuccessful choice of material - delta wood (ДСП-10)
      "Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side." Did the designers have a great choice?
    2. lucul 11 February 2020 13: 24 New
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      This is not a myth - LaGG-3 in terms of vertical maneuverability and horizontal maneuverability was inferior to Bf-109F and especially Bf-109G - naturally, having low thrust-to-weight ratio with a large mass and a large moment of inertia.

      LAGG-3 was developed for the new and heavy M-107 engine, hence the heavy weight of the aircraft structure, moreover, the choice of the wooden structure was justified only because of its massive size, to the detriment of the char-cameras. Ours, over the years of the war, built 50 T-000s and on each of them stood a V-34 DURAL engine. So there really wasn’t an incredible shortage of duralumin. At least part of the aircraft could be made from duralumin, but they did not.
      So, we saw the promised M-107 engine for 1500 hp only at the end of the war, on the Yak-9u, and in 1941 on the LAGG-3 we had to put the old and weak M-105 at 1000 hp. With which LAGG-3 could not fly normally - hence all the problems. As soon as they put the M-82 - so LAGG immediately spread its wings, because the glider was designed for a powerful and heavy engine. A lightweight design of the Yak was designed only for the M-105, and the margin of design strength was not enough for the M-82.
      Polikarpov back in 1939 was ready gliders for all occasions. He was waiting for the new promised engines M-107 (1500 hp), M-71 (2 hp) from 000, and with these engines, our fighters would be much more efficient. And not his fault - that these engines were released instead of 1939 in 1939. They appeared by 1945 - and the story could go differently ...
      1. Dmitry V. 12 February 2020 10: 46 New
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        Quote: lucul
        LAGG-3 was developed for the new and heavy engine M-107, hence the heavy design weight of the aircraft

        Seriously?
        And I was taught at the institute that the mass of a structure depends on the specific strength of the material - Take an interest in the specific strength of deltwood and duralumin, Mr. Profane.
        1. lucul 12 February 2020 10: 50 New
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          Seriously?
          And I was taught at the institute that the mass of a structure depends on the specific strength of the material

          So you can’t connect two two? )))
          Doesn't a heavier and more powerful engine require a sturdy aircraft structure? ))))
    3. lucul 11 February 2020 13: 28 New
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      LaGG-3 of 1942 of release (turn time is more than 5 seconds more than that of Bf-109F (!).

      You look at your own table - LAGG-3 had a turn for 5 seconds. worse - only when he has 6 RS-82 missiles under the wings))).
      1. Dmitry V. 12 February 2020 10: 57 New
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        Quote: lucul
        You look at your own table - LAGG-3 had a turn for 5 seconds. worse - only when he has 6 RS-82 missiles under the wings))).


        You can’t even read the tables, the Air Force Research Institute experienced maneuverability
        25 seconds - this is the first option with the M-82 engine.
        26 sec - selective 23rd series with 6th RS
        21 sec - with 1 ShVAK and 1 UBS.
        1. lucul 12 February 2020 11: 00 New
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          Air Force Research Institute tested for maneuverability

          What did he experience on maneuverability - a prototype? So the serial car turned radius of 19 seconds.
          You have in every post just hatred of our country ....
    4. Stas57 11 February 2020 15: 44 New
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      Everything is simpler:
      Yes, our aircraft of the initial period were worse than Me and Fv, because civil, hunger, poverty, "catch up in 20 years," and so on, but our pilots were even able to defeat a strong enemy with them. Honor and glory to them!
      But pulling on SuperLAGG, which even poor beggars before 46 used, is pulling the skin on an owl. The author is struggling with some myths giving birth to others, the "right"
  • Jarserge 11 February 2020 11: 50 New
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    I think so simple. Amateurs do not know or even realize that there is no perfect military equipment. All designs had and have flaws. Enemies, including the “Russian liberal” variety, for propaganda purposes, take a flaw that seems to them or actually exists and bring to absurdity (naturally in their publications speeches). There is also a category of couch idiots - ".. I shot from AKSU in" Stalker "sucks ...". So if you have time, read the sources check and that's all. All this method of deception was most convex and talented by the traitor Rezun. What would he die soon
    1. Stas57 11 February 2020 15: 44 New
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      Everything is simpler:
      Yes, our aircraft of the initial period were worse than Me and Fv, because civil, hunger, poverty, "catch up in 20 years," and so on, but our pilots were even able to defeat a strong enemy with them. Honor and glory to them!
      But pulling on SuperLAGG, which even poor beggars before 46 used, is pulling the skin on an owl.
  • nikvic46 13 February 2020 07: 54 New
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    Thanks to the author for such a detailed story about this aircraft. I’m not an expert in aviation technology. But I feel the guts. The usual cowards who are afraid to show today. And all blame on the Soviet past. I had three comrades. Two flew on modern airplanes. One in civil aviation. And they all started flying in DOSAAF. Started with the smallest military ranks. Lies on television rolls over. For some reason, the hatred of the NKVD was transferred to the Brezhnev period. When I served, and did not see anything like it. The principle of lies is one, to tarnish our past. And to assign all victories.
  • Garist Pavel 2 March 2020 13: 02 New
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    Friends, of course, they need to beat all our achievements. The criminal and fines fought, flew on the coffins ... Indeed, if we won, then our weapons are better! Here is the main evidence!
  • Garist Pavel 2 March 2020 13: 04 New
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    By the way, a very good review, thanks to the author