What happens to the Armata tank

Photo: Vitaliy Kuzmin

With promising Russian a tank “Armata” has recently been doing something obscure, there are no promised deliveries to the troops, references to the lack of funds to finance this program look unconvincing. Since 2015, enough time has passed, and the tank never appeared in the troops.

There is no engine for the tank

Everyone understood that there were serious problems with the tank, but they tried not to advertise them. And so "Lenta.ru" referring to the agency "Mil.Press Military" on February 6 reported:

“The promising Russian tank T-14 Armata has lost the ability to install a diesel engine on it, created as part of the R&D Chaika, since the latter will be closed.”

The agency received a response to the agency’s appeal to the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant (engine developer):

“As a result, it became obvious that the serial production of the developed engine due to its flaws and technically unattainable parameters is impractical.”

At the same time, the scientific and technical backlog that appeared when creating a promising engine will be used in the future.

It so happens that recently we learn about problems with “Armata” from publications of foreign publications. So, the American publication "The Diplomat" on January 17 reported (data on the site "Lenta.ru") that the supply of the Armata tank to the troops is delayed not only because of the need to prepare production facilities:

"Military analysts point to problems with the power plant, transmission and sighting system T-14, along with others as the cause of the next delays."

In its publication, The Diplomat refers to a comment by the head of Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, who in January of this year said that deliveries to the Russian army of armored vehicles based on the Armata platform had not yet begun, although in November 2019 he assured that the first T-14 pilot batch will enter the troops at the end of 2019 - the beginning of 2020.

How euphoria inflated with the creation of the Armata tank

To understand what is happening, remember the recent history the appearance of this tank. The start of work on the concept of the Armata tank was announced in 2011, and already in 2014, the then Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, far from the problems of creating military equipment, announced the creation of the Armata tank and its possible display on May 9, 2015 at the parade on Red Square. The tank was demonstrated at the parade, and since then it has only been regularly shown in parades and cannot be put into mass production.

In July 2018, Yuri Borisov, who replaced Rogozin as vice-premier, said that the Russian Armed Forces did not seek to massively purchase T-14 tanks because of their high cost, preferring to increase the combat potential of existing military equipment due to its modernization.

In August 2019, the Military Industrial Courier wrote that by the end of last year, Uralvagonzavod would supply the Ministry of Defense with only 16 vehicles based on the Armata universal tracked platform, due to the need to continue testing the promising weapons and caution of the Russian military department in assessing its capabilities.

The publication recalled that, according to the contract, Uralvagonzavod was supposed to deliver 2021 cars based on the Armata platform by the end of 132 and expressed doubt that this could be done. And so it happened.

There are serious technical problems in the tank

All this suggests that the tank has both technical and organizational problems, the ostentatious rush with the announcement of the creation of this tank did him more harm than good. The creation of such complex equipment as a tank requires the efforts of dozens of specialized enterprises and organizations involved in the development, testing and production of components and systems of a tank. This requires the most complex cooperation of all project participants under the guidance of a tank design bureau and strict adherence to certain stages of development and testing. Enough failure of work on some important node or system, and there will be no tank.

All components of the tank must go through these stages at the development enterprises and, according to the test results, be recommended for installation on the tank. The tank must also pass first factory (preliminary) tests, then military tests conducted by the military in various climatic zones, experimental military operation and, according to the test results, it is recommended for adoption and serial production.

Was all this done? Surely not, this cycle takes years with a clear sequence of work. What tests could be discussed if R&D for the mentioned Chaika tank engine was announced only in 2014, and the creation of the tank was announced in 2015?

Representatives of industry and the military, instead of intelligible explanations of the stage of development and testing of the tank, all the time they kept saying that it would soon enter the army. Of course, the tank’s tests are not completed, at what stage they are located, this is a terrible secret, but only without the engine and (I suspect) other tank systems will not even speak of mass production.

If the development of an X-engine has been officially announced, then what will be put in its place? Over the years, information periodically appeared about problems with this engine and difficulties with its production, but this was presented as minor problems to be solved. But it turned out that these problems are of a fundamental nature. One can only hope for the installation of modifications of the "eternally alive" B2 engine. And how much will it be acceptable for this layout of the tank and what characteristics will it provide?

I suppose that other components and systems of the tank did not pass the necessary stages of development and testing and did not confirm the declared characteristics, they can also have the same serious problems. The tank is full of sophisticated systems, it has a new gun, an aiming system and active defense of a new generation, radar systems, a tank information and control system, and a tactical link control system. There was nothing of the kind before and requires serious testing and development by development companies. In such complex systems, problems always arise that take time to solve.

I can give a negative example of the work of allies on these systems. In the 80s, for the Boxer tank, the computer system for controlling the tank’s movement was developed by the Chelyabinsk SKB Rotor, which is now developing the TIUS for the Armata tank, and the Krasnogorsk Mechanical Plant was developing an aiming system, according to available information, it is developing it for "Armata". These two companies failed to work on the Boxer tank, which was one of the reasons for the serious delays in its development. Now they can’t give anything intelligible on these systems for the Armata tank. Have they not learned how to work in thirty years?

What to do?

Last year, some crazy idea was thrown about the possibility of installing a tower from the T-90M tank on the Armata tank. Is this an indentation option being prepared due to failures in Armata? And now it turns out that there is no engine for the tank either.

You have to pay for everything, the euphoria in 2014 with the creation of a new tank turned out to be in many ways a bluff, launched, in my opinion, by Dmitry Rogozin. Yuri Borisov smoothed out this effect, citing a lack of financial resources, but technical problems with the tank remained. With all the shortcomings of this concept of the tank, this is indeed a new generation tank, it contains many breakthrough ideas on the components and systems of the tank, and it will be a shame if they are not implemented in connection with the possible closure of the tank project, as it was with the project “ Boxer".

Instead of ceremonial hype, it is necessary to calmly acknowledge the failures and begin the systematic refinement of the concept of the tank and its components in accordance with the generally accepted methodology and stages of the development of armored vehicles. Over the years, tremendous experience has been accumulated, this is recognized abroad, such a reserve should not disappear without a trace, it should be used in the further development of the Soviet and Russian schools of tank building.

Comments

[Sergei 777]

Armata will sooner or later be brought back to normal. In 3-4 years. In the meantime, the main emphasis will be placed on the T-90m which looks very good against the background of Western competitors.

[Genry]

Quote: Hunter 2

What tower from the T-90M, are you going to install there ???

[Arthur 85]

There is nothing. But it only dawned on me: is it during the modernization they put up a new tower? Where old? Isn’t it better to build a new tank from scratch, with a niche, and not to touch the old one?

[Mazuta]

It should be a shame to the author to repeat someone else's nonsense ....

[seti]

The site from which this "true" news is ripped off is a liberal / pro-Western tape.ru. The main thing is more hipesh. It is already possible and it is time to get used to the fact that they do nothing with us and everyone is sawing and sawing. But At them ..

[Ramzaj99]

An article from the category: - There is no information, but I think that everything is bad))))

[SARANCHA1976]

It is written in black and white that the development of the engine has failed (almost 400 lyamas have been allocated for this moment). There is no engine project. With the sighting system is also a problem, in the sense of it is not. What other information are you missing? Have you ever read an article?

[Simargl]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

Have you ever read an article?

For this, the author did not read about the engine.
"Chaika" is a promising high-speed diesel engine (more precisely, a family of engines). If it is not clear - with a higher liter and / or specific power. Now it is equipped with (and the engine compartment is designed) X-shaped engine A-85-3, which is not a "Chaika" and never was!

[Andrew_A]

Is everything alright with the A-85-3?

[Simargl]

Quote: Andrew_A

Is everything alright with the A-85-3?

At least there was no howling about him. Yes, and the one that put it works.
The "Chaika", as I understand it, has a maximum RPM of 5000, not 2500 like the A-85-3. Hence, the requirements for calculating resonant loads, for fuel, oils, fuel equipment. In short, it was not possible to make a "civilian" engine with the requests of the army (pouring all sorts of nasty things, carrying heavy loads, serving in the field) ...

[YOUR]

What they have, we should be interested in from the point of view of how it is more reliable to destroy in a collision, and not how they are sawing.

[stalker 75]

are you putinoid? where and who will build? vocational education has collapsed - in fact there are no personnel! where to build? - an example of the Omsk plant "flight" on the territory of the former Che current there are no landfills to shopping centers and residential buildings

[Alekseev]

Quote: figvam

such nonsense in the article, then more questions to the author,

In order.
The X-shaped engine did not begin to be developed at all in 2014, it was tested on a tank and moreover, successful in the 80s
What kind of Seagull is known only to the author and his sources.
What is such a computer system for controlling the movement of a tank? Maybe the ECM? So they try not to use common rail on military equipment, very tender. Yes, and if you put the ECM for her is not a problem.
The author is far from this movement as a Decembrist from the people.
Here for firing there is such a system, TBV, one of the important components of the OMS. The production of such devices is debugged and does not represent those. difficulties.
Such articles have one purpose - to discredit the military-industrial complex, the army and the state. authorities of the Russian Federation.
The fact that Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang are not immediately released in thousands of copies has one reason - the unwillingness of the country's leadership to get involved in a devastating arms race and the ability to solve the current tasks of Russian defense using what is already and quite efficiently: modernized BTT models. After all, America and comrades are not held back by tanks and armored personnel carriers
And selling the latest designs for export is also not entirely correct. But it is necessary to bring and prepare production for them, not now, so tomorrow Armata and other equipment of a new generation will gradually be introduced.

[tarackanovaleksei]

100% agree.

[Ilya_Nsk]

Be that as it may, there is no tank in the troops. This is, as Bender said, a medical fact. There is no video about successful field firing (there was a broadcast on the poster, what is there to keep secret now?) There is, however, not so-so video about all sorts of "Derivations" / "Octopuses". Be liberal, though not. Apparently, there are objective difficulties in the form of staff shortages, sabotage, elementary loss of production culture and other things caused by the policy of the current leadership.

[SARANCHA1976]

they try not to use common rail on military equipment .. It's strange that the entire line of German MTUs is on mono rail and they are not only on Leopards, many countries use them. The Europack power plant with the top MTU MT 883 develops a capacity of 2740 horses. You would familiarize yourself with the topic for starters.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Alekseev

What is such a computer system for controlling the movement of a tank?

and I will explain to you what the author had in mind. Firstly, yes, diesel comes with an electronic control system. Either Bosch, or his domestic counterpart. The second - there is a transmission control unit, it, together with the internal combustion engine ECU, closes to the BUSU - the power unit control unit. There is a suspension control unit. He and BUSU are locked on the computer IUS-Sh - information management system of the chassis. She is responsible for the movement of the tank. I hope you feel a little clearer, and that your emoticon was out of place at all.

Quote: Alekseev

But for shooting there is such a system

this is a different system; the LMS is a fire control system also consisting of several computers. They are responsible for finding the target, aiming, tracking the target, firing at it. If you want, call her BIUS
And this is not counting the electronics of "mounted" systems such as KAZ, KZVP, SEMZ, etc.
Electronics in the tank to such a shit. So that all this works in concert - not one pound of salt should be eaten.

Quote: Alekseev

The fact that Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang is not immediately released in thousand copies has one reason

not one. Including technical. I can’t tell you everything, but Kurganz had huge problems with the engine. Therefore, I am not surprised that there are similar problems on Armata.

[zenion]

The author described similar to how on a halt hunters boast about their guns. So one boasted so much that another asked him - maybe it still shoots backwards? He answered not shoot, but yours. The questioner sighed and said mine doesn’t shoot either. But even more reminiscent, this tank is not to the liking of this author and a joke is already suitable here. In general, daughter-in-law, you are not cooking soup like that. Svekruhe - mother, tell me how I will cook. Beetroot - I don’t know how, but not so!

[svp67]

Quote: Alekseev

In order.

all that can be said: Bravo

[george.prokudin]

It is possible that you are partly right. However, the Armata tank is still not in service. Meanwhile, the Germans and the French are already preparing their response against the still non-existent Armata. Unlike our deputy prime ministers and tank builders, they prefer to chat less and advertise "air", but work quickly and efficiently. With such an organization of business, our tank will never leave the stage of "cutting" the budget and development and testing, and they will quickly put their product on stream.

[svp67]

Quote: georg.prokudin

Meanwhile, the Germans and the French are already preparing their response against the still non-existent "Armata".

Nevertheless, it is not even in the project yet

Quote: georg.prokudin

Unlike our deputy prime ministers and tank builders, they prefer to chat less and advertise "air", but work quickly and efficiently.

You just don’t know the history of their tank building, especially after the war, otherwise you wouldn’t say so. The number of advertised, but did not go to a series of projects that absorbed many millions of financial resources they have a lot

[Gosha Smirnov]

nonsense, not nonsense, but there is no tank! There is some kind of tank industry not accepted for service

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Sergey 777

Armata will sooner or later be brought back to normal. In 3-4 years. In the meantime, the main emphasis will be placed on the T-90m which looks very good against the background of Western competitors.

So they wrote in the article that there is no engine, work on it is stopped, what kind of "bring to mind" are we talking about?
The story is similar to the Su-57, the same unfinished project for 15 years, but in the case of an airplane, at least the light at the end of the tunnel is visible, the engines are tested, the radar is tested.
With the collapse of the Union, alas, it seems that there is no longer any brains to implement such serious projects.

[telobezumnoe]

here I agree with you .. now the helm is at the helm of effective managers, and they know how to make beautiful pictures, and they’re optimistic .. everything is ready, they just haven’t come to work)) I somehow read the opinion that the boomerang has cooled down due to sanctions, there even Michelin wheels were not speaking of armor with protection also bourgeois, with ours he gained weight, from which he forgot how to swim .. and so on every little thing .. under the conditions of sanctions it does not work
. good example with il 114 ..

[timokhin-aa]

The article is bullshit, the Seagull ROC is not an Armata motor, the X-shaped for Armata has long been created and is working. It's just raw. I somehow talked with the guys from ChTZ for a long time already, somewhere in 2011-2012, they complained that they could not solve some problems with the engine. But he was already working then.

And OCD Chaika is a completely different project.

Regarding the tank - its fine-tuning is a matter of political will, what problems would be expected the car's percentage is too high. novelty.

According to the mind, it should look like this: for 2020-2022, those flaws that make military operation impossible in principle are finalized, then three or four battalion units are to be purchased, which must go to different climatic zones for trial operation.

Here it is necessary to take an important point - this operation will be a failure, and precisely because of the very technical novelty. This should simply be taken as the price of progress.

Well, already from the experience of three or four years of operation, according to the results of identifying all the shortcomings, it will be necessary to make a new tank on the backlog of T-14. Some kind of T-14M.

There is no other way, if we want to step into the next generation of armored vehicles, then this must be done.

[1970mk]

at 22? So many years after the show and show-offs, is there anything else to finish and again for testing?
Running in a circle without end ... this is called ... with raspilivanie dough.

[Simargl]

Quote: 1970mk

Running in a circle without end ... this is called ... with raspilivanie dough.

We rolled out a conceptually new model.
The world has caught on, now we are looking at the reaction. No one has yet decided what they can oppose, but decisions are beginning to emerge: a 140 mm cannon, then, shh ... or do you want 100500 tanks, two heads ahead of the previous generation, to be fired and then, when the world reacts, clutch its head and modernize to upgrade, upgrade?
This despite the fact that some esperds are not found in the tank in today's battle.

[timokhin-aa]

In another way, such a new system will not work.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: FRoman1984

it seems that the brains no longer implement such serious projects.

we still have brains, but we’re steering ... softer ...

[Old tanker]

You are an optimist. Five years have passed since the first parade. With such problems, you must wait for the tank in 10 years and suddenly appearance.

[Whalebone]

Where does it look? And most importantly - why was it rattle Armata, which is not already 5 years ago? The Great Patriotic War lasted 3 years 10 months. How many types of tanks were developed and went into production during this time?

[Bar2]

Well, who else doubts that Putin's Russia can not do anything? There is no hangar, no instant35, no14, no su57. How much bravado and empty boast was there, and what was the outcome? Nothing.

[Skubudu]

ChTZ-Uraltrak - bankrupt.
More than one enterprise in the Russian Federation is not able to create a serial working multi-fuel engine with a capacity of 1500+.
Military engines create enterprises that develop and mass-produce civilian engines.
Well, an enterprise cannot create a working reliable engine with the required characteristics if it is not able to create a working reliable civil engine.

[svp67]

"The chef is all gone, all is gone ... The client is leaving ... The plaster is being removed ..."
Honestly, at the expense of the engine, I don’t understand yet, but what are the reasons for the panic? Maybe you should ask, what kind of engine was installed on it earlier? Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has long gone through the entire test cycle and was installed on our experimental tanks ... I do not see any special problems so far that he would still be sipping the "Armata"

[The leader of the Redskins]

And for "Armata" even today the adherents "saw the battalion with my own eyes" threw minuses to me!
Indeed, verily - you are in their eyes, and they are God's dew!

[Svarog]

You have to pay for everything, the euphoria in 2014 with the creation of a new tank turned out to be in many ways a bluff, launched, in my opinion, by Dmitry Rogozin.

Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

[figwam]

Quote: Svarog

Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

This is the same as drawing conclusions about the military-industrial complex in the yellow press.

[Svarog]

Quote: figvam

Quote: Svarog

Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

This is the same as drawing conclusions about the military-industrial complex in the yellow press.

Is the Vostochny cosmodrome also yellow press? Rogozin is out of place, nepotism and incompetence .. this is something that can be seen without the yellow press ..

[figwam]

Quote: Svarog

Is the Vostochny cosmodrome the same yellow press? Rogozin is out of place,

I’m not talking about Rogozin, but about the Hurricane, a "specialist" in all matters.

[DMB 75]

Quote: figvam

I’m not talking about Rogozin, but about the Hurricane, a "specialist" in all matters.

Let me agree with you, he’s still an expert ..

[Whalebone]

Both Rogozin and Urgant are two civil servants - employees of Agitprop. Each of them entertains the audience in different ways, but not with content, but with hype - grimaces and jumps. Some viewers puff out their cheeks on the greatness of the country on TV, others swear at the proper trampolines, while others laugh at the zombie’s flat jokes every night. Everything in business - the public released steam, the clowns received a fee, the puppeteers continue to cut the remnants of the country.

[1970mk]

Is Urgant a civil servant? Rather, you are sick))) Brilev broadcasting 20 years about Putin "red Sun" who has British citizenship is not a civil servant, but Urgant is a state?

[demo]

Have morning coffee.
Daytime sleep.
And an evening chair. Or Urgant.

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: Svarog

Urgant is very correct

You would have dragged Petrosyan here. I also do not digest Rogozin even in scanty doses, but this skin, especially.

[svp67]

Quote: Svarog

Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

Rogozin, as a true PR specialist, spends a lot of effort, energy and money to raise his image, for the sake of interest, try here on the site in an article about space, something bad to say about him and his work, a "brave team" immediately flies in and tries to level your comment, most of all I was "killed" when one of them said that Rogozin was akin to Korolev and Glushko and even higher than them .... all out, after that information that a team was specially formed in the bowels of Roscosmos to conduct such here "upgrades and image enhancements of the head of Roscosmos" "already seems to me true

[Svarog]

that in the bowels of Roskosmos, a team has been specially formed to carry out such "upgrades and image enhancements of the head of Roscosmos," it seems to me to be true

I agree with you one hundred percent! I believe that in general it should be prohibited by law, officials, governors and other officials to spend budget money on maintaining the image. Since the results of their work are visible to everyone. Anyone who follows and is interested ..

Rogozin, as a true PR specialist, spends a lot of effort, energy and money to lift his image

That is, it does not work on the image of the country, but on its own ..

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

And for "Armata" even today the adherents "saw the battalion with my own eyes" threw minuses to me!

Adherents at the signal of the host mass crush.

[Vita vko]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

And for "Armata" even today the adherents "saw the battalion with my own eyes" threw minuses to me!
Indeed, verily - you are in their eyes, and they are God's dew!

This is psychology, or rather, political technology in the military-technical sphere. And the whole thing is in the author of the article, look who he is and from where. The problem is that 70-80% read articles as news, i.e. perceive the opinion of the author or the information found somewhere by him as fact. And only 20-30% of readers who are close to some military-technical developments are able to immediately critically evaluate the incompetence of the author.
When I was studying at the military academy, one of the professors very aptly expressed the differences in anti-jamming parameters for complexes of different development periods: "Soviet -17dB is much better than today's -20dB in the autocompensator of the suppression system." But that was 15 years ago. Now there is a feeling that when creating fundamentally new weapons systems such as the T-14 and Su-57, developers are forced to return to Soviet functional and operational requirements.

[Sergei 777]

Well, here is the case with the Su 57 and its engines of different stages. The second is not yet in the series and therefore they are being driven on the first. But this is just a temporary measure. It does not allow to reveal its full potential. 12n360 is a proven device, but apparently it is only enough for parades, incomplete testing and filming cycles in "Military Acceptance".
It is hoped that the work will continue and the tank will go into a large series after 2027.

[Grandfather]

pathos, but it was in THAT year ... FSE in series ... and 57e and t-14-15 ... we will beat everyone ... hurray! Well, how would it be ... they began to see the light and saw the outlines of a "Potemkin village" named after Putin, both in the economy and in politics ... and those who were "half a penny" generally "fell in love" with Garanta. I saw the carpet here in store, with the image of the Tsar, so he was lifted to the ceiling, four meters higher, above all, my question is why? saleswomen, embarrassedly said that ... tired of cleaning ... like decent people walk ... and on the carpet ... all sorts of stains ... oh, how the people love the leader. who does not believe, I will take a picture on the next trip.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Dead Day

FSE in the series ... and 57e and t-14-15

Su-57 is already in the series.

[syndicalist]

Quote: Dart2027

Su-57 is already in the series

I'm afraid that the "series" here is even in a worse condition than that of the Armata. You can, of course, call the prototypes the first serial ones, but this will not improve the essence of the matter. The prospects for the second stage engine are completely unclear, and there are a lot of problems with onboard electronics.

[Dart2027]

Quote: syndicalist

You can, of course, call prototypes the first production ones.

A series of 76 boards was ordered. It is a fact. As for different generations, the development of technology is an endless process, so then there will be another generation and more, etc.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Dart2027

A series of 76 boards was ordered.

What engines?

[Dart2027]

Quote: Ingvar 72

what engines

The first from the Su-35S, which is said quite openly.

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: syndicalist

The vague prospects of the second stage engine, a lot of problems with on-board electronics.

Do you own a question from within, or Wikipedia and Google?

[syndicalist]

I could say with aplomb that I have "absolutely reliable" insider data, as some VO regulars do, but experience shows that the same wiki and Google are much more reliable not only dubious insider information, but also quite official statements, quite officials.

[cherkas.oe]

Thank you, good luck.

[maxxx]

Well, let's get the SU - 57 stuck, like the Yankees are F - 35, so what? maybe for the better, which is slowly, but qualitatively?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: maxxx

maybe for the better, which is slowly, but qualitatively?

so look what a thing. The Americans spanked their Penguins, they fly on them. And the more the raid, the more all sorts of sores come out, which do not appear until the plane is massively flying. How to eliminate a sore 5if you don't know about it? For example, the Americans will fly the plane faster than we do, and then, having lifted the Su-57 into the air, we will face a bunch of problems. It is necessary to launch the aircraft into a series and "roll" it in order to calculate all the hidden flaws, and quickly eliminate them.

[maxxx]

I do not agree with you ... look at the experience of the USSR. in 1971, the future MIG-29 and SU-27 were completely ready in mock-ups, however, in 1983, if I remember correctly, only the MIG-29 went into the series (there were about 5 units like the prototypes), and the SU - 27, they worked on it for a long time, they had no order with the glider, or rather with the wing ... hence the conclusion, it’s not necessary to rivet hundreds to create a good car. because these two planes are wonderful cars, do you think?)

[Spambox]

The first serial of the party for delivery to the troops was defeated before the New Year at the factory tests before delivery

[nickname7]

pathos, but it was in that year.

The fools have already said that NATO is about to dissolve itself, fearing the technological power and the Armat armies that have no analogues.

[Thrifty]

Sv67-Sergey, those engines that pull the tank poorly, this is especially noticeable when driving on rough terrain for a long time, the thrust drops, the engine starts to overheat and buzz a la high-voltage transformer! For the parade, and driving on the autobahns, these engines will go and for war not! In addition, problems with field repairs were not even resolved.

[svp67]

Quote: Thrifty

In addition, problems with field repairs were not even resolved.

Sorry, but the technique is oversaturated with electronics for field repair is not well adapted.

[Thrifty]

Sv67- Sergey, did you have to change the engine on the tank in the field, say, in bad weather? I was not a tanker, but was attached to such a regiment during exercises, and on T72 I changed the engine in the field with the crew, and on T14, what is shoved as the main engine is unnecessarily difficult, capricious, and of little repair. Him and change the problem is still that!

[svp67]

Quote: Thrifty

Sv67- Sergey, did you have to change the engine on the tank in the field, say, in bad weather?

Yes, I had to, and on different models and let's say, pleasure is below average

Quote: Thrifty

Him and change the problem is still that!

But this is not a fact. We need to see how it is installed there, they can install it as on Western tanks, install the module, and in this case, the replacement will be done within an hour.

[SARANCHA1976]

It’s not regrettable, but before the German Europack,

[Sanichsan]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

It’s not regrettable, but before the German Europack,

Are you talking about that German Europark in which 14% of the equipment is on the go?

[SARANCHA1976]

and where did you get that the point here is specifically?

[Sanichsan]

I just reminded that the "German Europark", which you propose to strive for, is now doing about the same as the skaxauls in the Square

[SARANCHA1976]

ah understood what the joke is, you read how Europark and this is Europack. Powerplant Euro Power Pack.
https://e-libra.ru/files/books/2019/02/20/398751/i_171.jpg

[Sanichsan]

and for sure
but in essence it doesn't change anything. the combat readiness of equipment with "Europack" is lower than that of the Russian one. so should you strive for something less functional?

[SARANCHA1976]

the essence of my previous answer does not change the same .. but why did you get that the point here is specifically in it?

[Sanichsan]

but why not?
replacement is made by the unit. no block, no tank. a unit is much more expensive than a single part. there is no money for the blocks as a whole, there is no equipment as a whole.
On the one hand, it’s good, quick replacement, but on the other hand, you can’t get off with minor field repairs, replacing the entire unit. It’s good for German industrialists to produce a product with maximum added value, rather than individual parts for repair, and for us (Russia) it’s good that the Bundeswehr runs with sticks everyone is happy.
PS
just don’t tell that they are being repaired in the field without replacing the entire unit. no manufacturer will accept their equipment with broken seals for repair

[SARANCHA1976]

I repeat. and where did you get that the point here is specifically? Answer. And why not .. just a kindergarten.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

just a kindergarten.

very interesting argument
I wrote my thoughts on this issue, you have not given any facts to the contrary. that is, your arguments have not yet been substantiated at all. hmmm .. it turns out you have not a kindergarten, but a nursery group?

[SARANCHA1976]

At least I give figures and arguments in the dispute, and not my own opinion. Well, besides these mythical 12%, aren't you funny yourself?

[Sanichsan]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

At least I give figures and arguments in the dispute

what kind? about "kindergarten"? they are not numbers or arguments. you are cunning again.
I gave arguments when I described why, presumably, things are so bad in the Bundeswehr. you could not present a single counterargument or fact.

Quote: SARANCHA1976

Well, besides these mythical 12%, aren't you funny yourself?

OU! excuse me. really not 12, but 14%. More recently, an article on VO was about the combat readiness of German armored vehicles. by the way the Germans wrote. didn't you read?

[SARANCHA1976]

Arguments from the series, I think so? Concrete is simple. And something I did not see in this article the combat readiness of the main tanks of Germany at the level of 14%. Lay out the general temperature in the hospital as you need, according to MBT. Your 14% belonged to the air force no matter how regrettable it is for you. No need to manipulate numbers.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

Arguments from the series, I think so? Concrete is simple.

these are arguments if you are suddenly not in the know. concrete, not concrete, but arguments what do you have zero. zero. nothing at all except pompous statements about some kind of kindergarten

Quote: SARANCHA1976

And something I did not see in this article the combat readiness of the main tanks of Germany at the level of 14%.

Of course not seen. by reading an article in which it is not mentioned. I told you about the article about BMP Puma.

Quote: SARANCHA1976

Lay out the general temperature in the hospital as you need, according to MBT.

so you sort of already found

Only 101 Leopard 2 tanks out of 245 in the army are in readiness. Of 284 heavy infantry fighting vehicles "Puma", only 67 units are combat-ready. Of the 237 "Boxer" armored personnel carriers, 120 are on the move, of the 220 reconnaissance armored vehicles "Fennek" - 116. Of the 121 self-propelled armored howitzer PzG2000 - 46

would you risk saying that this is normal?

[SARANCHA1976]

I’m risking saying that I didn’t see your interest here. And even these figures in the article are very arbitrary. No need to align the term combat ready and broken, does not work. The same BMP cougar on paper stocks is not ready because the first batch of cars are defective. What is the defect? Yes, you know the hatches pass water through the seals .. that, as it were, does not interfere with the battle. At first you would have shoved other sources instead of dancing from one article

[Sanichsan]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

I’m risking saying that I didn’t see your interest here.

hmmm ... there are numbers, do not take a percentage? math is not your hobby?

Quote: SARANCHA1976

And even these figures in the article are very arbitrary. No need to align the term combat ready and broken, does not work.

I'm puzzled again. the Germans seem to have written quite clearly "not combat ready." neither "something is wrong there," nor "has a malfunction," namely, "not combat-ready."

Quote: SARANCHA1976

What is the defect? Yes, you know the hatches pass water through the seals .. that as if it does not interfere with the battle.

if the technique is "not combat-ready" then this wording means that the technique cannot participate in combat. it is possible that all 100% Pumas have defects (well, what do you want, German quality by the hands of African migrants ) but 86% of them have such defects that they cannot go into battle or take part in exercises.

Quote: SARANCHA1976

At first you would have shoved other sources instead of dancing from one article

I'm at work I can still answer a couple of comments while the base is being processed, but I don’t have time for any representative studies of the reliability and quality of German motor packages. if you have time to find the facts of operation and provide links to reports on the reliability of engines, preferably by years to compare them with the influx of migrants, it would be very convincing! much more convincing than the "kindergarten" argument

PS
a bit offtopic .. but why do you have a Maidan fist with a Colorado ribbon on your avatar? how do you symbolize the orange revolutions intertwined with pro-Russian symbols?

[SARANCHA1976]

For representative research, what would something prove to an expert on European arms? Yes, throw me a pity on this time.
PS
Offtop. Maidan’s fist with a Colorado ribbon is the emblem of the 1st LPR People’s Brigade. Her fighters, if you wish, will explain in detail both about the fist and about the tape. I have the honor

[SARANCHA1976]

https://topwar.ru/166073-konec-bundesvera-ili-chto-proishodit-s-nemeckimi-tankami.html вы про это что ли? Так там тоже ваших 14% не наблюдается. Потому что 14% боеготовой техники в армии это катастрофа для любого государства что Германии что Молдавии. За 14% выносят на пинках министерство обороны с ген.штабом....

[Sanichsan]

Quote: SARANCHA1976

https://topwar.ru/166073-konec-bundesvera-ili-chto-proishodit-s-nemeckimi-tankami.html вы про это что ли? Так там тоже ваших 14% не наблюдается.

well, how is it not observed? it is written: "Of 284 heavy infantry fighting vehicles" Puma "only 67 units are ready."
and there is an article personally on Pumas, where their combat readiness is rated even lower. mind you, the Germans.

Quote: SARANCHA1976

Because 14% of combat-ready equipment in the army is a disaster for any state that Germany is that of Moldova. Over 14% carry out on kicks the Ministry of Defense with the General Staff ....

not. for the Bundeswehr norms I gave you the numbers above. for BMP those same 14%.
"kicked out"? ha ha ha ha indeed, at such kicks that Frau Von Der Lane from this kick flew right into the presidents of the European Commission I think this is a suitable grave digger for the EU

[SARANCHA1976]

But all over the world they somehow manage

[mark1]

Then explain why the "thrust falls" - if the shortcomings of the cooling system are one thing, if the resource (pistons, for example, burn out or rings), this is different, or maybe he needs to put the exhaust pipe higher so that the thrust is ... or maybe it's transmissions ... - not clear.
And most importantly - who will be responsible for this whistle. Well this smells like a grandiose swindle in a particularly cynical form.

[Thrifty]

Mark1 I can’t give an explanation, because I’m not dedicated to such problems, but the facts have a place to be, and they were recorded for reports!

[mark1]

Thrifty - I think that you are still not a humanitarian person (although it does not really matter). Think for yourself - the engine has existed since the 60s of the last century, in addition, it passed state tests on ob. 195. and then, note, the thrust was enough for him (and the mass of the tank was greater). Ie someone is cheating. either then or now ... I repeat, ob. 195 passed state tests and was recommended for adoption! They said it's expensive, we will make it cheaper and better based on this product. No sooner said than done, in 15 they showed a batch of tanks at the parade ... and that's it! ... it all started from the beginning. a new engine, throwing a cannon, a return to the "Breakthrough" theme, etc., etc. A new stage in the development of funds has begun ... the visible result, but the amount of the invested bubble has already exceeded the cost of the program by ob. 2027!

[Thrifty]

Mark1 means, and the test process could surface problems that were not noticed before. Note that T14 is lower than T95, it is possible that on T95 the engine was larger at least higher, and on T14 in this version it did not fit in, it was necessary to redo it. So it turned out that the good got mediocre. With a change in altitude, power also fell, which inevitably increased fuel consumption, there may also be problems in the gearbox, because it was also larger at a higher T95.

[mark1]

Quote: Thrifty

it is possible that on the T95 the engine was larger at least taller, but on the T14 in this version it did not fit in corny, I had to redo it.

Suddenly ... fresh ... actually the engine did not change.

Quote: Thrifty

there may be problems in the gearbox, for it was also larger on the higher T95.

Yes, you, my friend, theorist!

[Thrifty]

Mark1 - just had no access to the T95. .. maybe I didn’t have yet ... therefore I am building such theories.

[svp67]

Quote: mark1

in addition, he passed state tests on ob. 195.

And before that, he was fully exploited on one of the options vol. 187
This "copy No. 4 is in the" Kalashny row "", it is equipped with a new MTO with an A-85-2 engine

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

it is equipped with a new MTO with the A-85-2 engine

By the way, the hull is only 30 cm longer than the T-72 hull, but the engine compartment with a 1200 horsepower engine with its cooling system also fit into it, and the weakened zone in the area of ​​the driver's viewing devices (the so-called "neckline") was removed.

[svp67]

Quote: mark1

Then you explain from what the "craving falls"

Specialists, I think I’ve already figured it out, there are many options. From overheating of the lower cylinder heads to clogging of the air filter ... In any case, when this engine was run in experimental tanks, the problem of overheating of the lower cylinder heads was noted, but there the MTO tanks had a smaller volume, and here it is, if it’s clear to the eye to compare, it’s clearly more, in any case, in height, it also means the possibility of placing and arranging the cooling system higher

[mark1]

Quote: svp67

Specialists, I think I’ve figured it out already,

Believe me, I have no doubts about the competence of specialists (at least, the fact that it is higher than mine is indisputable). But after all, they have been sorting it out for 30 years, for 30 years they have been traveling in a vicious circle. It seems to me that this is not so much a technical problem as a leadership crisis.

[Constanty]

Tsayk's engine is not actually the one that was installed on the T-14. The fact is that it was developed for a reason. 12n360 is not as tested and reliable as many people think. Despite decades of development and testing, despite trials on the Object 187 and more recently on the T-14 tank, this engine is clearly in trouble when looking for alternatives.
However, in my opinion, the problem is not only in the engine. The problem is the unmanned tower and its real reliability on the battlefield - it is not without reason that BMP PUMA also has problems at various competitions and tenders.

There are also costs. Especially when a very good, excellent T-90M "Breakthrough" with the same gun in production. When factories are busy with a very successful T-72B3M retrofit with significant impact at a decidedly lower cost

Of course, the T-14 will be finalized and will go into service, but already as a fully operational tank, possibly with a 152-mm gun 2A83.

[Andrew Zhukov]

when? 10 years from now?
And he will not be out of date by that time?

[Constanty]

Please note that modern tanks are almost 30-40 years old.
And they will last another 20-30 years. "T-14" is a tank of a completely new generation - in the West these are just beginning to develop and sooner than in 10-15 years they will not be in operation.

[Andrew Zhukov]

well, that is, a breakthrough that has no analogues in the world, about which the last 5 years have shouted, no.
What do we have, that in 10 years they will have new generation tanks

[Constanty]

You definitely have a Breakthrough - in my opinion a very good tank. No worse than Leopard 2A6 or current Abrams - maybe even better.

The T-14 is actually an analogue (very similar in any case) of the Abrams TTB - there it ended as a prototype

[Andrew Zhukov]

I did not mean the name Tank Breakthrough project.

Quote: Constanty

The T-14 is actually an analogue (very similar anyway) to Abrams

you are not in the subject at all
The T-14 "chip" is an uninhabited tower. Indeed, no one in the world (including the Abrams) has such a thing ... Not even close
If the T-14 weren’t a PR, but a real tank with a real prospect of getting into service, one could justifiably shout about a breakthrough that has no analogues in the world
and so ... PR and only

[Constanty]

In my opinion, the T-90M has a very adequate name, and the layout and construction system of both the TTB and the T-14 is very similar (including the uninhabited tower and crew in the capsule.)

. The Americans failed to do this to the end,
All you need is to modify the already existing masterpiece - T-14

[Voyager]

If yes, if only. Why are you talking about what you don’t understand? On the new platform, ordered more than a hundred different machines for running-in and refinement. They are produced. Others do not even have prototype counterparts to such machines.

[nickname7]

Of course, the T-14 will be finalized and will go into service

What the well-developed t-14 is developing, what will soon be excellent too, But why drag prototypes to the parade?

[mark1]

Quote: svp67

Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has long gone through the entire test cycle and was installed on our experimental tanks ... I do not see any special problems so far that he would still be sipping the "Armata"

This is where the misunderstandings begin - there are engines (but why did they decide to make it even "better"), there is even a prototype of the tank (the T-95 was almost ready for production in due time), the impression is that problems are specifically looking for. Let me remind you that the "Armata" theme was started because of the allegedly dorgoviznosti object 195, but it seems that the customer has already forgotten about this and the process is going on for the sake of the process.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has already passed the entire test cycle for a LONG time and was installed on our experimental tanks ..

Exactly. And for some reason the author is sure that the "seagull" and the X-shaped engine are one and the same. The X-shaped engine was at our facilities-187, it was also at the facility-219RD (St. Petersburg version of the diesel 80),

A variation of the same engine, together with the transmission, went through a full cycle of tests at the 195 object and, I suspect, the same transmission, together with the engine from the 195 object, migrated to the T-14. But for some reason they suddenly decided that this engine was not good enough, so they began to develop the "Seagull".
With Kurgan, the same garbage: they wanted to put one engine, then decided another. As a result, the situation is like a buridan donkey with two haystacks.

[Bad_gr]

Incidentally, as one of the options could consider a turbine. If I remember correctly, 1500 horses have long been ready. After all, once it was planned to produce one tank with two transmission options (with a turbine and diesel)

[Mazuta]

Did this idea ever be abandoned ?!

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

If I remember correctly, 1500 horses have long been ready

Yes, here some people promise that they can “easily” deliver a GTE in 1800 or even 2000 for a tank ... I don’t know. I don't know if a 45-ton tank needs such power? How much fuel and "clean air" does it need?

[Metlik]

This is government policy - not to finish anything. Approved by advisers from the IMF and the CIA.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Bad_gr

the engine was on objects-187he stood on facility-219RD (St. Petersburg version of the diesel 80s),

Yes, another tank with this engine forgot to mention - Object-785 (Chelyabinsk).
"........ To reduce the size of the MTU, an ejector engine cooling system was used. But its performance was not enough to ensure effective heat removal, and the 2B type engine in comparison with the" classic "V-2 had a very noticeably increased heat dissipation. .... "
The same thing, they did not bring to mind, the work was stopped. Although the tank loomed quite promising: with a 130mm caliber gun and 30 shells in the conveyor (only 50 yat)

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

To reduce the dimensions of the MTU, an ejector engine cooling system was used.

The T-64 and T-80UD have such, it is strange that it did not go to the "785". They write about a big loss of power, apparently this is due to the use of a four-stroke engine, and not two-stroke ones like on "64" and "UDeshki"

[Bad_gr]

At the St. Petersburg facility-219RD, the same ejection cooling of the X-shaped (2V-16-2) engine, but how it showed itself, I did not come across any information.

As I understand it, the 2B-16-2 is a 16-cylinder, and it was worse than the current 12-cylinder.
Just now I noticed that this object has a chassis of not 80s, but from the T-64

[Bad_gr]

It turns out that this object was written here https://topwar.ru/27276-tank-obekt-219rd-i-dvigatel-2v-16-2.html . In my opinion, interesting.

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

In my opinion, interesting.

Yes. I agree. In this story, it is most unfortunate that when creating the T-80U, T-80UD and especially the T-90, they did not want to install a "monoblock - MTO" on the tank. This is most of all a pity. And at the expense of the engine, there are many interesting things. Please note that about the decrease in power in a 16-cylinder when working with a "no gu-gu" injection system, but in a 12-cylinder they showed up ... agree strangely.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Bad_gr

Just now I noticed that this object has a chassis of not 80s, but from the T-64

Sorry, lied . Chassis T-80

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

Just now I noticed that this object has a chassis of not 80s, but from the T-64

No, the hodovka is not 64, look at the skating rink

Quote: Bad_gr

Sorry, lied. Chassis T-80

The same is sin to me, it happens

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

No, the hodovka is not 64, look at the skating rink

They seemed to be flat as plates. Enlarged picture - flat. I did not pay attention to the outer bandage. Then I found other photos where everything is visible without question. In practice, the T-80 rollers didn’t come across to me (I only dealt with large ones from the T-55-62), but if the rollers from the T-80 are disassembled into the inner and outer parts, the photo that led me astray looks like the outer part of the rollers is shot .

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

but if the rollers from the T-80 are disassembled into the inner and outer parts, in the photo that misled me, it looks like the outer part of the rollers is shot.

Yes, they are designed exactly like that, and given that they are also made of light alloy, then ...

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

They write about a big loss of power,

So it’s not a fact that on the T-64, T-80UD, T-84 there is no similar power loss. After all, the power of their engines was measured, most likely, at the stand, where it was unlikely that there was a native ejector-type cooling system.
The cooling system of the Leopard-2 tank, although with fans, but takes away 250 horses from a diesel engine (apparently due to the ring-shaped radiators, which are less efficient than the classic ones). At the T-90, the cooling fan used to take 90 horses from a diesel engine, but the fan was replaced and now 75 hp are lost on it (this is data on the T-90 with a 1000-strong engine)

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

So it’s not a fact that on the T-64, T-80UD, T-84 there is no similar power loss.

And due to what? There the exhaust pipes are in the box of the ejector and during their work they create air draft through radiators, I honestly don’t understand what kind of hassle there is ...

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

And due to what? There the exhaust pipes are in the ejector box and during their work create air draft through radiators,

As I understand it, the exhaust from the engine goes not just into the box, but is distributed between multiple nozzles, and their narrowing makes it difficult to exhaust, hence the drop in engine power.

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

but distributed between multiple nozzles,

So then. But everywhere it is written that the T-72 had engine power loss of 15%, which was not the case with the T-64.

[Alf]

Quote: Bad_gr

So it’s not a fact that on the T-64, T-80UD, T-84 there is no similar power loss.

Is.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

Is.

Something has become blind, I can’t make out the letters, you can write what is written for the characteristic

[Alf]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Alf

Is.

Something has become blind, I can’t make out the letters, you can write what is written for the characteristic

The maximum engine power of a gas turbine engine is 1250 l / s, on the drive wheel-950 l / s.
The 6TD-2 has 1200 horses and 875 mares on the wheel.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

The maximum engine power of a gas turbine engine is 1250 l / s, on the drive wheel-950 l / s.
The 6TD-2 has 1200 horses and 875 mares on the wheel.

Something very big losses, here they are clearly due to the design of the BKP (on-board gearboxes), which means the T-72 they are even larger, due to the fan drive

[Alf]

What I found, then laid out.
I'll try to print the other day, then scan at maximum resolution and drive it back into the network. I’ll drop it personally, the table is very interesting.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

I’ll drop it personally, the table is very interesting.

Thank you in advance

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

which means the T-72 have them even more, due to the fan drive

Not a fact: there the ejector takes the power from the engine, then the direct power take-off for the fan - which way is the more energy-intensive question.
Behind the ejector, plus is compactness. You can write down the simplicity of the design as a plus (no mechanics). But the effectiveness, I would question. And if it is less effective, then more power should be lost on it when performing the same tasks (dumping excess heat)

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Alf

The maximum engine power of a gas turbine engine is 1250 l / s, on the drive wheel-950 l / s.
The 6TD-2 has 1200 horses and 875 mares on the wheel.

Our gas turbine engine does not have an external cooling system. The power of the gas turbine engine 1250 and 6TD-2 is approximately equal. Both transmissions are similar (two planetary gearboxes), which means that the power on the drive wheel of a tank with 6TD-2 will be equal, other things being equal, minus losses on the cooling system: 950 - 875 = 75 hp
Where am I mistaken?

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

Where am I mistaken?

There are no exact characteristics, but most likely the fact is that a tank with a gas turbine engine has 4 forward gears, and a tank with a diesel engine has 7 ... the number of boosters and planetary gears is different, so I think of these 75 "horses", something they will fall, but then again BUT ... and what is the connection between these engines and the transmission. In one case, it is mechanical, this is for a diesel engine, in the other, it is air-dynamic, and here the loss is clearly higher in the second. So what you need to look for characteristics

[Bad_gr]

By the way, in our tropical BMP-3, the ejector cooling system was supplemented with a forced one (with a fan).
An additional window next to the exhaust (top photo)

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

By the way, in our tropical BMP-3, the ejector cooling system was supplemented with a forced

And again, the four-stroke engine, and its operating speed is lower than that of two-stroke engines

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

And again, the four-stroke engine, and its operating speed is lower than that of two-stroke engines

BMP-1-2, BMD-1-2-3-4-4M - for all four-stroke engines with an ejector cooling system - I have not heard of problems with engine cooling. If there is information about this, I would listen with gratitude.

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

BMP-1-2, BMD-1-2-3-4-4M - for all four-stroke engines with an ejector cooling system - I have not heard of problems with engine cooling.

I haven’t heard the same thing, but it would be necessary to compare the operational revolutions of the engines used. The UTD-20 is very high-speed. Its operational revolutions are higher than that of the UTD-29 BMP-3. BMD engines, especially BMD-3,4, generally have an interesting design and many features ...
I don’t know if you had to read or not, but I’m dumping the article, I consider it quite informative
http://otvaga2004.ru/tanki/istoriya-sozdaniya/nelegkaya-sudba-legkogo-tanka-legkij-tank-obekt-934-sudya/3/

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

http://otvaga2004.ru/tanki/istoriya-sozdaniya/nelegkaya-sudba-legkogo-tanka-legkij-tank-obekt-934-sudya/3/

Thanks for the information.
According to the article
With engines it is clear: both 2B-06 and UTD-29 are both in production. And even on equipment with maximum unification are both (on BMP-3 - UTD-29, on BMD-4m - 2V-06)
On the way - understandable.
The question remains; was it possible to create a single transmission?

[SARANCHA1976]

Turbo80 isn't GOP worth it?

[timokhin-aa]

So he stands there, the article is crap

[Alexga]

Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has already passed the entire test cycle for a LONG time and was installed on our experimental tanks.

It seems to me that with the engine you are not quite right. I rely on the data from the times of the Soviet Union, but if an "A" is indicated in the engine brand, then this indicates that the engine is not yet fully ready. this concerns the documentation of the Chelyabinsk plant. I, at one time worked with the A-65 engine, after completing the entire test program, it turned into a B-84. It has always been easier for us to destroy the country than to change the technical documentation. But I think so, I can be mistaken.

[Thrifty]

The author thickened the paint a little, but there is some truth here. They wanted to put the engine "temporary", the one that is forced on the T72B3, but it also does not pull the T14. The main problem is the difficulty of repairing the tank in the field, in the contradictions between the original version and what the military requires. Now they want to solve the problem by creating a certain batch of "budget" T14, but the main problem with the power plant has not yet been solved! The military wants to have on the tank everything that was in the terms of reference - KAZ, a drone for reconnaissance, dynamic protection throughout the vehicle, and not selectively, but otherwise - grilles. Because of this, the weight has grown higher than stated. Generally, the problems can be solved, but the swing began again - how many and in what version to supply tanks, whether to stretch the implementation of the program ...

[Constanty]

Not true - on the T-72B3 the V-92C2 engine, on the T-14 prototypes - the 12n360 engine - These are completely different engines

[Thrifty]

Konstantin - On the T14, they’re trying any option now, just to get a more or less acceptable option, but it’s not good, because they need an engine for this particular tank, and not different alterations. There is a pursuit of the result to splurge!

[Saxahorse]

Quote: Thrifty

The military wants to have everything on the tank that was in the terms of reference -KAZ, a drone for reconnaissance, dynamic protection throughout the vehicle, and not selectively

And they absolutely rightly wish. For the T-14 has no other advantages over the T-90. Failure of 152 mm. the guns made all this fuss with Armata meaningless. In its current form, the T-14 has no advantages over existing tanks.

[Thrifty]

Facade, when there is nothing besides ambition, it remains to scoff at others!

[figwam]

Quote: Fasad

hang Colorado ribbons

Come Bandera.

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Colossal experience has been gained over the years.

Have they not learned how to work in thirty years?

How they worked, such is the experience.

[Lamata]

shuffle shorter, and we see in the parades and a small number in the troops. and what words they said they promised)))))

[rocket757]

I have already thrown in and I still throw in a bunch of versions by the troll, choose any and do the "analysis"!
The tank will do, not today so tomorrow. What is the problem then?
Again we will refer to "there is no money, but you ... do something there."
Okay, a lot of this happens with us, not in the end after a fire.
They’ll make it, then we'll see.

[rocket757]

It’s funny, he wrote that they SCREWED the versions AND SCROLL THE STILL, and it was printed as if he was concocting them himself ???

Quote: rocket757

Already threw and still throw a bunch of versions of the troll,

Interesno, but why did it "happen ??? like in" trolls "never listed?

[SARANCHA1976]

Bad approach. Not today. So tomorrow. Not in a year, so in two, etc. And now all this is normally perceived in all aspects of life.

[rocket757]

Can you change something? How?

[SARANCHA1976]

Personally, unfortunately not. My measures are too radical;)

[rocket757]

This too often comes to my mind ... at the expense of the tail, which is cut to the ears.
Give the people will, the list of candidates for ... shortening, it would turn out to be long. BUT ... but then all sorts of different restrictions, prohibitions and punishments, for excessive "emotionality" may follow.
In short, at the moment, under the circumstances, is not an option.

[SARANCHA1976]

It's just that people get used to it .. and if a fire is needed today, it will turn out as usual tomorrow

[rocket757]

So far, everything rests on serious, "vigorous" arguments. They will end not directly tomorrow, so it is necessary to prepare an answer not directly for tomorrow, but after tomorrow. All intermediate options are just an experiment, preparation for what the enemy may have the day after tomorrow.
Something like this, I think, that's why I'm not "seething" about any delays, the main thing is to be ready for later, but so thoroughly, lethally!

[SARANCHA1976]

So this is a no-brainer, it just jars when "respected" people from the screens rattle with words and then their deputies mumble something indistinctly or carry nonsense with a clear look

[rocket757]

An irresponsible chatterbox, smoothly becoming empty \ dumb ... this is our reality.
The root word is RESPONSIBILITY!

[sedoj]

Link to "Lenta.ru". This publication, except as a trash heap, and I do not want to call it, let alone comment on its articles and conclusions ... But in essence the question is chatter, it is chatter. Whether this product will be in the army this year or not - it's not up to us sitting on the couch to decide. And in any case, it does not depend on us. So - chases in each discussion from empty to empty. (Boring, girls. (C)).

[Thrifty]

Gray-haired - the tank was driven to different training grounds, it is natural, as it is natural that among the workers of the UVZ there appeared accurate information that the military was not happy with what is there. Problems, of course, are solved, but a lot of contradictions, such as urgently making a batch of "budget" tanks, with truncated functions, and completing the main version of the tank with a password. It's just unnecessary hassle, and throwing from side to side does not add optimism. ..

[Operator]

Five years ago, I warned that the Nizhny Tagil project of promising MBT would end in zilch
https://topwar.ru/82625-armata-kak-unificirovannaya-gusenichnaya-platforma.html

Nevertheless, fans of the cargo cult sold a purely Western shed on wheels and even with an X-shaped diesel engine, which was recognized stillborn during the USSR.

The Ground Forces of the RF Armed Forces need a really promising project - in the classic dimensions of domestic tanks with six pairs of road wheels, a modern high-temperature gas turbine engine, an all-aspect KAZ of the "Arena" type, unitary BOPSs of 125 mm caliber in the turret aft niche or with separate loading of the ARS of 160 mm caliber, a crew of two people and an artificial intelligence system such as "Hunter", circular optoelectronic view and augmented reality helmet-mounted screens.

A different approach is only an imitation of development.

[Thrifty]

Operator - there is simply a strong contradiction between the desire of the army and the possibility of production. Moreover, there were a lot of things they wanted and could do at the UVZ itself, but other lobbies turned out to be stronger, and some of the equipment had to be done by outsiders. And they do not have enough resources, not finances. As a result, they left the tank without all-round cameras, because it’s expensive, and cheap low-quality ones go. Such throwing only slows down the work on the tank. It is necessary to remove those who got into protection contracts, who came for money, for imitation of work. ..

[Operator]

There are no contradictions (except in the minds of fans of the cargo cult):
- there are modern domestic turboshaft gas turbine engines for helicopters; a mechanical transmission has been tested on the T-80;
- make a 125-mm gun under the unitary as two fingers on the asphalt;
- the automatic loader in the aft niche of the tower was implemented back in the shaggy 1997 at object 640 "Black Eagle";
- AI "Okhotnik" was developed for the Su-57 and is quite suitable for tank adaptation;
- in the presence of a mass of commercial augmented reality systems on the market, it is a shame to put displays in the BO of the tank that will fail immediately after the first hit of the shell on the armor.

[Thrifty]

Operator, have you ever seen displays on military vehicles that are disconnected from the bonus vibration? Believe it or not, this was the case, put by civilian crooked "specialists", in fact, office workers from the supplier!

[Operator]

This is not about vibration, but about shaking from the impact of a shell on the armor, after which steel parts connected by welding fly off from it from the inside, and not just some displays there.

[Thrifty]

Operator, we are talking about changing the level of training of specialists even for the military-industrial complex, because there is no succession of generations. It has become "unfashionable" to work, trade is the ideal of modern youth.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

why scratch any nonsense
- modern domestic turboshaft gas turbine engines ....... gas turbine engines require 3 oaz more air per liter per second than diesel, because air extraction for cleaning is 3 times higher, which forced the T-80 to recommend operation in the middle and northern latitudes yes and then with a massive vacuum cleaner in the rear of the tower, the high altitude tank GTE is generally not on the shoulder, with every 500 m of height, the power drops exponentially and at 2000 meters everything ...
- make a 125-mm gun under a unitary ... still delusional, increase the shell’s overall dimensions, throw some more haemorrhoids to the tank crew, you’re a sadistic old man
- automatic loader in the aft niche of the tower .... the niche of the tower will need to be thoroughly booked by throwing an extra 2-3 tons into this tower, thereby worsening its controllability, and even then this is not a panacea. if you haven’t seen it, look how the Abra and Leo are burning in Iraq and even among the Saudis
at this stage, 72B3 and T-90 are the most advanced MBTs, the only thing the command needs to glue is that the development of all sorts of "crowbars" and cumulatives is not the required denomination for a tank, which takes up extra space in the current conditions, it is enough to have UR ​​tank KUV and PF in the ammunition load ... that's all for a short time

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

which forced the T-80 to recommend operation in the middle and northern latitudes

Normally they are exploited by them in other conditions:
Cyprus, Republic of Korea, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Angola, Egypt

[Crimean partisan 1974]

They are normally exploited in other conditions: ... it is not worth wishful thinking, they did not enter service in Egiet, only pokatushki. Mongolia refused in favor of the T-72, the rest of the countries purchased this tank "detached" version of the T-80 type UD BV and actually tightly diesel T-84, so do not cast a shadow over the fence

[SARANCHA1976]

Cyprus took turbines, but there the climate is almost perfect for them

[Crimean partisan 1974]

but there for them the climate is almost perfect .... and especially the territory. what's the difference in boxing. what a turbine what a diesel, ride anyway no where

[SARANCHA1976]

air sampling for cleaning is 3 times higher, which forced the T-80 to recommend for operation ..
Because the t80 is equipped with a miserable one-stage air purification system, a full-fledged two-stage in MTO 80ki was simply not where to put it, and the guys decided not to bother .. It will work out.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Because the t80 is equipped with a miserable one-stage air purification system, ..... the Abra are not miserable, nevertheless they remained hopeless in the deserts, the stripes themselves insist on this concealing combat losses, but radish horseradish is not sweeter, even from dust even ancient RPG, abra showed full 0

[SARANCHA1976]

Abrashi has an honest two-stage cleaning system that gives clean air to the turbine even in the desert. with rather easily serviced cartridges that clean with compressed air and scrap. They were more idle waiting for fuel.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

They were more idle in anticipation of fuel .... but TU in the 24th Infantry Division didn’t think so, there was fuel, but cleaning up trouble

[SARANCHA1976]

I did not read it interestingly. however, the Abrams tank air purifier required more frequent cleaning due to fine talc-like sand. Loess dust is present in all deserts. At 80 with its cleaning, it led to sintering of dust on the turbine blades up to jamming. After that, they put a samovar behind the tower and introduced a special desert mode that strangles the turbine and the traction essessno. I can imagine how many of them there would be left

[Crimean partisan 1974]

I imagine how many of them there would be left .... they drove in Egypt and put a bullet on the turbine T-80, evil tongues say that they tried to drive in Afghanistan, but they did not go further than the Pamir

[SARANCHA1976]

Well, yes, there is still a highland influences, the turbine suffocates

[SARANCHA1976]

You just have to admit that the 80ka is imprisoned for the European theater. Here in the GSVG they were in their place.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

You just have to admit that the 80ka is imprisoned for a European theater of operations ..... at the expense of the turbine 80s it’s not so hot, the installation for underwater driving is problematic, and there aren’t any pontoon parks of rivers and streams in the European theater of production ........ , in principle, the T-64 and T-80 were considered as one-day breakthrough tanks. torques and with a comfortable suspension, and that’s all, the tank for every day and any situation didn’t work out, unlike the T-72

[Lamata]

Maybe there are not enough brains?

[Inspector]

nope. I'm for a 155 mm seven-wheel drive and a diesel engine. GTE is a high-speed shed for exhibitions and parades. 125 mm does not provide an advantage and makes the whole project meaningless. 6 skating rinks today - and there is a cargo cult. "That was".

[bars1]

Quote: Operator

crew of two

Your approach is even more radical than the creators of Almaty!

[Operator]

The approach is based on developments in domestic avionics - the Hunter AI.

[SARANCHA1976]

Everyone has some kind of bzik on the gas turbine engine which has more minuses than pluses

[Xenofont]

The author put together all the liberal-yellow press husk and dumped it on our heads.
I amused the local all-singers and stooped races: well done, the weekend was not in vain!

[SARANCHA1976]

Glory to the heavens Amen

[Petrol cutter]

Hmmm ...
It seems to me gentlemen that all this comes from the insufficient attention of the commander in chief. From there are such big / big suspicions. I thought only we had such problems, it turns out that the tank building.
Engine builders say there are no motors, and there won’t be ...
Here it’s just right to intervene even to Himself! And ask questions. Why so sad? For example. What is needed to solve these problems? And the people will answer and enlighten.
Why, for example, I am given a task at work, and I must fulfill it today (at least die, but to be ready today). And we do. And somewhere, people are cool? And unsubscribes by some general beautiful phrases?

[Thrifty]

Gas cutter, this we will marry the results of import substitution in words. Fig results, if one assembled the box and others grabbed the engine, they promised, but they could not do it further than a low-power and difficult to operate and even more difficult to repair, real and inexpensive engine.

[SARANCHA1976]

Ask questions? I feel like there is a winter garden in the song .. Nobody is to blame for anything;)

[Andrew Zhukov]

From the very beginning it was clear that this was a PR of pure water.
The tank is raw and insanely expensive.
Close this project is necessary. A tank will not go without an engine (if the truth is that work on it was closed).

[Crystal of Truth]

The concept itself is also defective .. The crew sitting in this capsule simply will not be able to really respond to the situation around ..

[mark1]

Quote: Crystal of Truth

The crew sitting in this capsule simply can not really respond to the situation around

And loader return to place!

[Crystal of Truth]

I don’t know about the loader, but in a difficult situation it will be unrealistic to react to all changes from this armored capsule ..

[Essex62]

It is possible to teach the crew to work with observation cameras, to train the skill, too, will not be difficult, because the drones are driving on the display. Another thing is that the crew will not have a completely "comfortable" perception of the situation, no matter how much they train. Try to drive, in the city, a car according to the image on the display. At what second will you hear the characteristic crackle? In addition, a tanker with such skills and craftsmanship becomes a "piece goods". This is not acceptable for a big war. And why then a tank with such data, if not for mixing with nata?

[Crystal of Truth]

And I'm talking about .. Going to a position and shooting at a target of 3 kilometers is one thing .. And getting into trouble in the city for example, it will be really bad

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Try to drive, in a city, a car according to the image on the display ... you might think that in a triplex the image and information content is better ????? Well, tode you should still get into the tank and feel the perception from the triplex and TPN, the view from the PNM Pine is even more beautiful, you can, like a seasoned pirate, do a "kutuzovka" by eye, and besides, you have stuck a pine tree so that a weighty one will fit on the right shoulder parrot cockatoo, that's when you climb into the T-72b3 tank then the reasoning will be what is acceptable for a big war and what is not

[Essex62]

In the capsule of Almaty, as I understand it, the review is only by cameras, with the image being transmitted to the display. Maybe I'm wrong.
When I served, besides triplex there was nothing. And in the betar and motor-league we rode with open hatches and looked at them.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

the review is only on cameras ... you are not mistaken, it is much better than staring at triplex

[SARANCHA1976]

B3 needs a panorama in series and everything will work out, then a normal tank

[Crimean partisan 1974]

B3 needs a panorama in series ... in B3 screens are installed regularly even with a driver, and with a rearview camera, my first-born child is now a driver, a couple of months ago the battalion received a troika instead of an insect. says heaven and earth compared to a bug

[SARANCHA1976]

This is what the linear parts need to be filled with. Now ammunition breakthrough to bring to the level and quite a decent tank. I’m silent about reliability, ease of maintenance and cost of operation.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Now bring the penetration to the level of ammunition ... but what is wrong with the ammunition ??? judging by the KUV type Invar T-72 is generally out of competition, and even so when talking with the tankers when asked about the ammunition, everyone as one says that it is enough to fill the "carousel" only with UR (for pinpoint attacks) and OF-36, especially since KUV Invar has a high-explosive version of the UR, and what is characteristic is a shot of UR tank KUV is not much more expensive than a "crowbar" or cumulative. and a bunch of pluses. The UR barrel does not "pull", no adjustments are needed, there are practically no ballistic calculations, soot and dust, so the whole planet is ahead.
quite a decent tank. ..... what a decent one, and most importantly there is no loader, or rather its side physiological features such as diarrhea and involuntary urination, as is known in a high psychological situation this happens

[SARANCHA1976]

Plus physical fatigue, main + AZ

[Old Michael]

Information periodically appeared about problems with this engine and difficulties with its production, but this was presented as small solvable problems. But it turned out that these problems are of a fundamental nature.

Still not fundamental!
Engine building is one of the sensitive indicators of the state of industry and applied science (and their ability to symbiosis).
If in the part of science and design thought not only the previous experience is preserved, but new developments appear, and a change is already being formed for veterans, then with industry it is all the more sad.
Just so, did the democrats begin its destruction with machine tool industry? Succeeded, with ... ki!
And with a file and a chisel, even with seven spans in the forehead, you will not go far.
To make an efficient and reliable engine you need a high-precision machine. To create it, you need a no less accurate machine. To work on it you need a highly qualified specialist. To prepare it, you need a technical school. For the college to function properly, it needs a training and production base run by experienced and skilled teachers and production workers. For mass training of specialists there must be demand, that is, developed production. To create which ...
We will listen to this fairy tale “about the white bull” until the tasks of restoration and development (including staffing) of critical production facilities become priorities for the state.

[cat Rusich]

The file is the foundation of production. Technique - the engine in particular, needs to be made easy to manufacture and operate. To develop equipment (T-14, SU-57, etc.), initially understanding on what machines it will be made and repaired. How to make engines faster and better? - send the director of the engine building plant or "the owner of the plant "to Nizhnekolymsk in an ordinary communal apartment ... until the engine is made, tested, put into service and put into production.

[Terenin]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Quote: Inspector

journalist Rogozin is one of the few patriots in power.

journalist Rogozin, worthless ... well, yes I will not express obscenities. The only thing he can do except eat, sleep, and multiply, is tryndet about nothing. All his promises, in fact ... What did he star a year ago about 45 launches in 23019? Voooot. Under Stalin, he would have long been a pro lumberjack. And this is the maximum to which it can be allowed.

What was it? Really about the tank Armata?
Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

Quote: Lannan Shi

eat, sleep, and multiply

By the way, he writes himself, well, very beloved, with a CAPITAL letter, and others with a lowercase ...

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Terenin

What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.

Quote: Terenin

Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
Dixi.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Quote: Terenin

What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.

Quote: Terenin

Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
Dixi.

are you okay??? what kind of words do you give out ???

[Terenin]

Quote: Nikolai Grek

Quote: Lannan Shi

Quote: Terenin

What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.

Quote: Terenin

Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
Dixi.

are you okay??? what kind of words do you give out ???

And she

Quote: Lannan Shi

the country is stupidly doomed

and she bounced joyfully into NATO where

Quote: Lannan Shi

The population of NATO countries is under the yard.

to help them

eat, sleep, and multiply,

because

Quote: Lannan Shi

not raised in a pigsty

[novel66]

not raised in a pigsty

not a bad place, by the way, a lot of decent people came out of there !! Gena!

[Terenin]

Quote: novel xnumx

not raised in a pigsty

not a bad place, by the way, a lot of decent people came out of there !! Gena!

This LaNasha ... is so educated that she doesn’t know that they don’t raise in a pigsty but ... they grow and fatten ... well, as in her beloved EU

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Terenin

Quote: Nikolai Grek

Quote: Lannan Shi

Quote: Terenin

What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.

Quote: Terenin

Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
Dixi.

are you okay??? what kind of words do you give out ???

And she

Quote: Lannan Shi

the country is stupidly doomed

and she bounced joyfully into NATO where

Quote: Lannan Shi

The population of NATO countries is under the yard.

to help them

eat, sleep, and multiply,

because

Quote: Lannan Shi

not raised in a pigsty

do not pay attention ... see aggravation !!!

[novel66]

aggravation !!

Kolyun, not a blunt ???

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: novel xnumx

aggravation !!

Kolyun, not a blunt ???

it does not interfere!! however, one may be a consequence of the other !!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

We do not need the T-90. In no modification .......... do you need the liberals, but we need
. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And every year it falls ...... start with yourself, instead of using the technical site to state your nonsense, it’s better to increase the demography
The population of NATO countries is under the yard. ... the population of NATO countries is aging rapidly, and this tendency is slowed down by the aliens of the shoog and the east who, under such conditions, began to breed very intensively, which cannot be said about the natives
the country is stupidly doomed ..... it remains only to find out what is doomed to?

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Inspector

journalist Rogozin is one of the few patriots in power. And the duet of Borisov and the Krivoruchko from the synagogue impudently works for the mossad.

This is a joke most likely. He is not a professional in any of the areas of his last job. This is even worse than working for Mossad.

[Andrey VOV]

I’m an engine from t 90, is there anyway? I'm just not a techie ... maybe specialists will say

[Thrifty]

Andrei VOV - it seems like they tried to put it does not pull! In a straight line, no matter where else it went, but at the shooting range it is possible to crawl no higher than second gear - there isn’t enough power!

[dgonni]

Easy ! And it will be like a check with the first motor. A view of ten slanting woods and not rides

[bars1]

On the tanks shown at the parade in 2015. there were A-85-3A engines with a capacity of 1500hp. But then they decided to install the Chaika. Now they decided to release a small batch with the A-85-3A engine. Further, they plan to install a YaMZ-880 diesel engine with a capacity of 1800hp.

[bars1]

Quote: Operator

circular optoelectronic review and helmet-mounted screens of augmented reality.

In general, this should be an indispensable attribute of the entire BTT, both newly created and modernized.

[Zaurbek]

Now everything is gone.
A diesel engine is still needed new. You can’t last long on Soviet groundwork

[turbris]

I did not understand anything from the article. What euphoria and bluff does the author claim? Who had it, the author? There are always problems when developing the latest technology, so what? They are simply overcome, especially since there is no need for the soonest adoption of the "Armata" into service now, however, like the Su-57. Let the designers calmly deal with the problems, but better equipment will enter service.

[region58]

Quote: turbris

Let designers calmly deal with problems.

Plus, also train those who will use and operate it. Create infrastructure for repair and maintenance. Again, the concept of application ... A new technique should be applied differently. All this takes time and reflection ...

[Revival]

Let them sort it out, no one is against it, just don’t have to figure it out yet that they say it has no analogues, a miracle.
And then it's funny then on the mekanie about "it takes time, and so on." listen.
That's how the designers will figure it out, then start boasting.
That’s the whole problem ..

[turbris]

Well, these are mainly complaints about journalists - they always run ahead of the locomotive, they have everything "the best in the world", "unparalleled", etc.

[bars1]

Quote: Operator

crew of two

Your proposal is even more radical than that of the creators of Almaty!

[Victor Leningradets]

The crew is not needed at all. He must follow the technical and maintain the equipment. The battle should be the tanks of robots.
And here - super-interesting!
Such a robot does not need:
- low silhouette;
- protivosnaryadny armor;
- smoothbore gun with super-ballistics;
- outstanding speed and dynamic performance;
- ensuring ergonomics of the crew.
He needs:
- powerful artificial intelligence and integration into the battlefield BIOS;
- gun-howitzer 152 mm with a large elevation angle;
- circular shelling from machine guns;
- protection against RPGs and ATGM;
- exceptional cross-country ability;
- the ability to move in city blockages due to barrage systems;
- the possibility of mass production for the complete rearmament of the ground forces.
Available today there are all the necessary components to create such a machine. At the first stage, you can use the existing chassis for testing systems.

[Alf]

Quote: Victor Leningradets

Available today there are all the necessary components to create such a machine.

This is covered ...

[Victor Leningradets]

Interestingly, and which are not?
There is everything separately, it is necessary to develop TTT, then TK, then link all developments into a single product, get the first pancake (experimental series), salt and pepper and - on the conveyor. The main thing is to rivet them like T-34-85 against the "Royal Tigers".

[Tavrik]

This has long been created. It is called a "tank-missile installation". It was made back in 1996 as part of UFO. Cool igruha was! And I also remembered the Ratte project, another Hitler's wunderwaffe.
But seriously, through which communication channels will you manage this device in the conditions of city blockages? How much will this miracle weigh, taking into account armor, barrage systems, the possibility of shooting in all directions. Do all bridges withstand this device?

[Victor Leningradets]

The mass is at the MBT level (I wrote: "projectile armor is not needed"), the armament is the same as that of the Akatsiya + 3 large-caliber machine guns in retractable installations, the engine is a clone B-2 not fancy, it is controlled autonomously (artificial intelligence) and network-centrically (drones, battlefield avacs, etc.). Communication (retractable devices) - at the level of setting the task: the enemy is there and there to bypass and destroy, take a position and keep a mobile defense. And if the robot "Vanya" is knocked out, "Sanya" will insure, and "Manya" and "Tanya" will provide anti-tank and anti-aircraft defense.
The main thing is that there is no crew and it’s not scary to die, but due to simplicity it is possible to rivet in thousands a year.

[knn54]

UNABILIZED tower - also not one of the last problems in the layout of the tank. In case of failure of the tank’s power supply system or damage to the transmission of control signals from the crew from the tank’s hull to the turret, the tank becomes completely dysfunctional-there are no duplicate fire systems in the tank. So, what is next???
The tank should provide high reliability in battle with possible system failures, so the problem is not only in the engine.
It remains to use the Soviet legacy. By the way, and "Armata" is no exception - the implementation of the network-centric tank, the concept of which was developed and put into the "Boxer" tank, was continued. With the collapse of the USSR, the project "stalled". .Maybe it will work out now. Hopefully.

[donavi49]

Well, any modern tank, if electricity runs out, turns into a T-34. And it has at least some chances against another modern tank, in which the electricity also ended.

Armata will be able to exit the battle just like the T-90 / Abrams, whose wiring closes and everything goes out. Nobody will fight on such a tank.

[Tavrik]

And what is in Armata network-centric, except for a beautiful name?

[Radikal]

What happens to the Armata tank

What is happening to him? In my opinion everything is fine - takes part in parades, in photo sessions - similarly. So - everyone is happy!

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Dead Day

FSE in the series ... and 57e and t-14-15

Su-57 is already in the series.

What motors? What avionics? Why is it needed in the series, if it is no different from the Su-35, except for its price?

[Revival]

The main reason for the incomprehensible situation with the tank: it is the habit of shouting loudly and praising ahead of time, and then mooing about moving the deadlines right to right to right ...
Boasting in advance and hitting yourself in the chest with a heel is not worth it and there will be no "incomprehensible situation" ...
And then I'm ready!
Ready when it is ready!

[nickname7]

Boasting in advance and hitting yourself in the chest with a heel is not worth it and there will be no "incomprehensible situation"

Quite right. "Don't say hop until you jump over."

[jekasimf]

Tell the amateur - why can’t you put engines from T 90 on Armata? Is Armata heavier?

[Alf]

Quote: jekasimf

Is Armata harder?

T-90 46,5 tons.
Armata 55 tons.
There is still a "slight" difference.

[Svarog51]

Basil Armata is a concept, a platform for BTT. Without an engine, she is a "Deadborn Child", so the question is why, apart from a diesel engine, a turbine is not considered for her? It seems logical to be able to work out this option and check how it will behave? T-80s are being modernized, updated for service in the North, but they are not eternal. Why isn't such an option included in the concept right away?

[Operator]

And it’s not fate to think - where is the GTE of the 1976 model and where is the GTE of the 2020 model?

[SARANCHA1976]

In principle, in addition to raising the temperature of the gases, nothing has changed in the design; is it not fate to read about gas turbine engines?

[SARANCHA1976]

Sintering of dust on the blades, high fuel consumption, a single-stage air filter, overloading of the turbine engine with associated systems for stable operation of the turbine, the wild high cost of the power plant, complicated repairs, high operating costs .. do you want to add? By the way, enlighten how they are going to reduce fuel consumption so much.

[Operator]

The molecular filter solves all issues with dust.

What kind of cost are you talking about when a turboshaft gas turbine with a capacity of 1500 hp are massively installed on helicopters worth 10 million dollars or less (like the Abrams tank)?

40 atmospheres + 2000 degrees = fuel combustion conditions in a diesel engine.

[SARANCHA1976]

in aviation, their nuances of operation, the comparison is incorrect. and ask how much the whole t80 costs and the power plant separately, not a TURBINE, but the whole complex + do not forget to count the auxiliary engine at the cost of b46.

[SARANCHA1976]

I apologize was wrong .. The auxiliary power unit GTA-18 costs 90 times the cost of the main diesel engine of the T-2,5 tank

[Svarog51]

Of course not right. In the 90s, during the fanning power outages, I thought the "kirdyk" came and would not refuel. But no, the last gas station is equipped with GTA-18 and is independent from the mains. Diesel - at least fill up, tarhtite slowly and supplies the "thirsty" with fuel.
Needless to say, an 18-horsepower engine costs 2,5 times tank diesel. Goleted lies. Who is the fake for?

[SARANCHA1976]

Molecular filter ??? who is this ... is it directly developed and in production? or as with t14. The cost of the T-80U and T-72B in the late 1980s. amounted to 824 thousand rubles, respectively. and 280 thousand rubles. do not you think that almost three tanks are better than one, with a slight increase in frontal projection protection and equal armament. the dignity of a limited flight in a straight line at 80 km \ h frankly I do not cause delight

[SARANCHA1976]

What does the pressure +40? In modern tank diesels, the fuel injection pressure can reach up to 200 atmospheres. I finally do not understand why these +40

[Operator]

The pressure in the diesel cylinder at the moment of the flash is <40 atmospheres (the injection pressure in the fuel injector of the GTE and diesel reaches 950 atmospheres).

[Alf]

Quote: Svarog51

T-80 is being modernized, updated for service in the North, but they are not eternal.

The counter-question is whether there is a gas turbine engine for Almaty? 1250 mares are clearly few. And to create a completely new gas turbine engine with the possibility of forcing is not the easiest and fastest task, especially in modern Russia.

[Svarog51]

That is why I asked that work was being done on the diesel engine. But the turbine? Maybe the result would be different? The Americans have 1500 mares, their Abrams drag, ours are easier. Well, I would not sweep the turbine as an engine for the BTT. It’s too early to put a cross, but work in this direction will not be superfluous. Yes, she’s expensive, yes, she’s voracious - but the prospects? Why do not evaluate this direction?

[Alf]

Quote: Svarog51

Well, I would not sweep the turbine as an engine for the BTT.

My personal opinion is that GTE for tanks is a very promising thing.

Quote: Svarog51

but work in this direction will not be superfluous.

Is there any development money? And who will develop and, especially, build these engines?
All around are managers ...

[Svarog51]

Omsk, T-80 was made there and modernized. I won’t lie to the turbine, I don’t know where it was developed and modernized. But did they develop and modernize? It is logical to have an alternative engine. I do not understand why diesel will not be mastered in any way with modern calculation technologies and automated systems. Turbines are miscalculated in the same way, and then - the organization of production. Moreover, the turbine is less costly, the aircraft are fully developed. They’ll definitely do for the tank.

[Alf]

Quote: Svarog51

I do not understand why diesel will not be mastered in any way with modern calculation technologies and automated systems.

Yes, for the same reason that there is no one to count or do. Those who could, or the elderly are retired or already "far away", and the young either do not go or come such that it would be better not to come at all. It's just that in those glorious times, those who said they worked "at a factory where tanks are made" were told-O-O-O!, And now they say-What, they didn't take it anywhere else?

[Svarog51]

It's sad to hear everything is broken. All that is missing is a strong-willed decision. And material support of competent specialists.
"Wow, how angry I am, oh, how angry I am!" (from)

[Grigory_45]

Quote: jekasimf

Is Armata harder?

almost 10 tons

[Kaw]

In my opinion, everything is obvious. Access to imported components has ceased, but no analogue has been found on Ali-express. What about the engine. The engine from the T-80U on this tank would fit perfectly IMHO

[Alf]

Quote: Kaw

The engine from the T-80U on this tank would fit perfectly IMHO

Especially if it were half as powerful.

[Baloo]

so much noise around new technological advances in civil and military engineering ... like a frozen pregnancy

[dgonni]

I didn’t understand something! What is the order for the Almaty engine in 2014 if it was already in 2011 (https://topwar.ru/7491-dvigatel-blizhayshego-buduschego.html)?
First of all, the problem is the overall coordination of the SLA and the absence or lack of knowledge of the 152mm gun. For 125 mm even the modernized one does not give cardinal advantages over existing tanks.
P.S. For the author a specialist! A new factory was being built for a boxer in Kharkov in the late 80s and everything there was already linked to him. If it weren’t for the collapse of the Union in 93-94, Chuguev would have received a kit for passing through the military tests.

[Romka]

Such articles cannot be printed on VO; they completely demoralize readers. What is it that happens, have we been hanging noodles for five years? And if with hypersound from the same opera?

[voyaka uh]

"And if with hypersound from the same opera?" ////
----
A bit better. But not much.

[Alf]

Quote: Romka

What is it that happens, have we been hanging noodles for five years?

We are hanging noodles from the 91st and nothing, there are still believers.

[tank64rus]

Wait and see. As Comrade Stalin said. "Let the designers make a tank in metal, and then we will decide which is better." Is there really no engine for the Armata, except for an experimental development. The question is the engine needs 1500hp. for 55 tons or more. This is the proportion of foreign MBTs. I think we have similar engines. And those who spent the people's money, and then say, give it more leads to certain thoughts, as with a certain cosmodrome. Until the defense industry, or better yet, Russia, is not kicked out of "effective managers" for the development of banknotes, but absolutely unsuitable for the business and the country, so it will be. And if we had one Armata.

[Alf]

Quote: tank64rus

Until the defense industry, or better from Russia, will not be thrown out of "effective managers" for the development of banknotes, but absolutely unsuitable for the business and the country, so everything will be.

This can only be done with this ship.

[Svarog51]

Instead of a bow gun - a tower from Armata and test.

[Tavrik]

Is there really no engine on Armata, except for experimental development.

Do not be surprised that it is. Or maybe they supplied some module-block-valve for the engine from Kharkov, and now the bench has covered itself?

[Stirbjorn]

You have to pay for everything, the euphoria in 2014 with the creation of a new tank turned out to be in many ways a bluff, launched, in my opinion, by Dmitry Rogozin.

After Rogozin IL-112 was about to launch into the air, and a month before the launch, it turned out that the engines were not ready for it - how can it be taken seriously

[Basarev]

What did I say? An ordinary PR tank that has worked out a belligerent public mood against the backdrop of the annexation of the Crimea and the outbreak of war in the east. Like the Su-57. The models in their role are ideal: they hold society together by militarism and rally around the leader. Their perspectives and innovativeness are excellent excuses for covering up the failure of counter-sanctions (sanctions were not imposed against the country, only against specific petrified mugs, while counter-sanctions were a classic frostbite to spite grandmother). So, the whole collapse of welfare is easy to explain with this tale - all the money was spent on these new samples.

[Boris Chernikov]

There is an engine for Armata, otherwise there would be no tests, but they pass and pass normally .. the point is that there is an EMNIP engine for 1 horses, but they wanted to force it up to 200 mares .. but it didn’t work out .. + he eats more calculated indicators .. here and finally decided to make a new engine, but for now they will put 1

[Thrifty]

Boris Chernikov - even according to almost official information, the a-engine does not give the necessary traction, or it does not keep its speed well, it is difficult to repair and operate, and the point is expensive. The calculations were to purchase it in large quantities, and refinement to the mind, but it was more difficult to see the problems than they thought, and there is simply no solution that suits both the military and the manufacturers!

[Lad]

Then it’s still possible to deliver the engine from a Muscovite. It’s all the same the armored tank. True, there are problems not only with the engine, but that's okay.

[Zum]

Tired of these articles in the spirit of .......... "Russia is lost" from the repertoire of "the writer Vitia" ............... business needs to be done, not muddy the water .. ... you know how to do better ......... go and do, but if not-
keep quiet ....

[SARANCHA1976]

Should be done by specialists who for this and studied

[maxxx]

Lenta.RU .... well, well ... when this, so to speak, publication published a more or less truthful information based on reality ??? ... it's all the same as in the proverb: - ​​the grandmother said for two ....)

[Self]

Well, that is, the tank has been in the army for a long time, the factories are making more and more in three shifts, but is it "vyfsevret" on Lenta? There are problems, and very big ones. What difference does it make where they wrote about them.

[Zum]

Fewer words - more action ... the trouble is that we all have "writers" ... and they are too smart ... and they themselves sort out leaky troughs on the outskirts of Moscow for a thousand bucks ... The question arises why these clever people do not go to production ... but write and discuss everything ... spending time re-reading a lot of literature that is practically not used in their everyday life ............ .. ???? And the answer is simple .......... nowadays the time is ... everyone and everyone knows how to need and how to do it right ... but they do nothing ... but they just want to have and have a lot and effortlessly ...

[Spiridonovich2]

Nothing terrible happened. Failures with the Armata tank, SU-57 aircraft, Vostochny spaceport, with the construction of destroyers and aircraft carriers, these are all stages of a long journey. We have already risen from our knees and now we need new budgetary investments for the development of the next generations of weapons, taking into account the accumulated experience and previous mistakes. The main thing is to select new managers to perform new ambitious tasks ..

[nickname7]

The main thing is to choose new managers to perform new ambitious tasks.

There are no other managers for you.

[silver_roman]

People like Rogozin at a cannon shot should not be allowed into a serious industrial sector, all the more responsible for the country's defense. it did a lot of business there, then for some reason it was transferred to the space industry, where a complete mess is now being observed.

[Arthur 85]

By the way, for some reason it always seemed that Armata was something between Rumata Estorsky and Arata Beautiful / Humpbacked. Even something like baseless hopes inspired me ...

[swzero]

I just don’t understand how the R&D gull is connected with the armature. Nyokr seagull:

"Development of basic models of the model range high-speed V-shaped diesel engines for special purposes in the power range from 750 to 1500 kW, promising models of automotive vehicles and tracked vehicles of medium and heavy weight categories, special wheeled vehicles and transport and technological means "(code" Chaika ")

On armature stands X-shaped the engine, which has nothing to do with the R&D gull. By the time of the start of R&D (June 14), the armata had already gone.

[Nikolaevich I]

We can already be ....

[aws4]

how nice it was to get confirmation from this article that I’ve been writing for several years and for which I have been minus .. sooner or later the truth comes to the surface ... wipe the patriots !!!

[unmer]

A pre-loudly propagated thing is a failure in any field. I remember * Odessa motor ship * ..

[Sardanapalus]

Armata is a thing of the past for Putriotogandy ... Seichvs euphoria among haters is caused by Poseidons and superlight rockets. A reinforcement material is worked out.

[ric]

In this country, only Comrade Beria can restore order. Then there will be organization and testing, and saboteurs, thieves, muddlers will be found in the shortest possible time, and they will also be punished to the fullest extent.

[stepka_razin]

Yes, with armature, it would be better on the t90th to feed the automatic loading loader, and the t-72 put a new tower ...

[ava09]

(c) How euphoria inflated with the creation of the Armata tank (c)
Euphoria is the main weapon used by the bourgeois to fight their own people and are going to "repel" external aggression.