What happens to the Armata tank

361

Photo: Vitaliy Kuzmin

With promising Russian a tank “Armata” has recently been doing something obscure, there are no promised deliveries to the troops, references to the lack of funds to finance this program look unconvincing. Since 2015, enough time has passed, and the tank never appeared in the troops.

There is no engine for the tank


Everyone understood that there were serious problems with the tank, but they tried not to advertise them. And so "Lenta.ru" referring to the agency "Mil.Press Military" on February 6 reported:



“The promising Russian tank T-14 Armata has lost the ability to install a diesel engine on it, created as part of the R&D Chaika, since the latter will be closed.”

The agency received a response to the agency’s appeal to the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant (engine developer):

“As a result, it became obvious that the serial production of the developed engine due to its flaws and technically unattainable parameters is impractical.”

At the same time, the scientific and technical backlog that appeared when creating a promising engine will be used in the future.

It so happens that recently we learn about problems with “Armata” from publications of foreign publications. So, the American publication "The Diplomat" on January 17 reported (data on the site "Lenta.ru") that the supply of the Armata tank to the troops is delayed not only because of the need to prepare production facilities:

"Military analysts point to problems with the power plant, transmission and sighting system T-14, along with others as the cause of the next delays."

In its publication, The Diplomat refers to a comment by the head of Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, who in January of this year said that deliveries to the Russian army of armored vehicles based on the Armata platform had not yet begun, although in November 2019 he assured that the first T-14 pilot batch will enter the troops at the end of 2019 - the beginning of 2020.

How euphoria inflated with the creation of the Armata tank


To understand what is happening, remember the recent history the appearance of this tank. The start of work on the concept of the Armata tank was announced in 2011, and already in 2014, the then Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, far from the problems of creating military equipment, announced the creation of the Armata tank and its possible display on May 9, 2015 at the parade on Red Square. The tank was demonstrated at the parade, and since then it has only been regularly shown in parades and cannot be put into mass production.

In July 2018, Yuri Borisov, who replaced Rogozin as vice-premier, said that the Russian Armed Forces did not seek to massively purchase T-14 tanks because of their high cost, preferring to increase the combat potential of existing military equipment due to its modernization.

In August 2019, the Military Industrial Courier wrote that by the end of last year, Uralvagonzavod would supply the Ministry of Defense with only 16 vehicles based on the Armata universal tracked platform, due to the need to continue testing the promising weapons and caution of the Russian military department in assessing its capabilities.

The publication recalled that, according to the contract, Uralvagonzavod was supposed to deliver 2021 cars based on the Armata platform by the end of 132 and expressed doubt that this could be done. And so it happened.

There are serious technical problems in the tank


All this suggests that the tank has both technical and organizational problems, the ostentatious rush with the announcement of the creation of this tank did him more harm than good. The creation of such complex equipment as a tank requires the efforts of dozens of specialized enterprises and organizations involved in the development, testing and production of components and systems of a tank. This requires the most complex cooperation of all project participants under the guidance of a tank design bureau and strict adherence to certain stages of development and testing. Enough failure of work on some important node or system, and there will be no tank.

All components of the tank must go through these stages at the development enterprises and, according to the test results, be recommended for installation on the tank. The tank must also pass first factory (preliminary) tests, then military tests conducted by the military in various climatic zones, experimental military operation and, according to the test results, it is recommended for adoption and serial production.

Was all this done? Surely not, this cycle takes years with a clear sequence of work. What tests could be discussed if R&D for the mentioned Chaika tank engine was announced only in 2014, and the creation of the tank was announced in 2015?

Representatives of industry and the military, instead of intelligible explanations of the stage of development and testing of the tank, all the time they kept saying that it would soon enter the army. Of course, the tank’s tests are not completed, at what stage they are located, this is a terrible secret, but only without the engine and (I suspect) other tank systems will not even speak of mass production.

If the development of an X-engine has been officially announced, then what will be put in its place? Over the years, information periodically appeared about problems with this engine and difficulties with its production, but this was presented as minor problems to be solved. But it turned out that these problems are of a fundamental nature. One can only hope for the installation of modifications of the "eternally alive" B2 engine. And how much will it be acceptable for this layout of the tank and what characteristics will it provide?

I suppose that other components and systems of the tank did not pass the necessary stages of development and testing and did not confirm the declared characteristics, they can also have the same serious problems. The tank is full of sophisticated systems, it has a new gun, an aiming system and active defense of a new generation, radar systems, a tank information and control system, and a tactical link control system. There was nothing of the kind before and requires serious testing and development by development companies. In such complex systems, problems always arise that take time to solve.

I can give a negative example of the work of allies on these systems. In the 80s, for the Boxer tank, the computer system for controlling the tank’s movement was developed by the Chelyabinsk SKB Rotor, which is now developing the TIUS for the Armata tank, and the Krasnogorsk Mechanical Plant was developing an aiming system, according to available information, it is developing it for "Armata". These two companies failed to work on the Boxer tank, which was one of the reasons for the serious delays in its development. Now they can’t give anything intelligible on these systems for the Armata tank. Have they not learned how to work in thirty years?

What to do?


Last year, some crazy idea was thrown about the possibility of installing a tower from the T-90M tank on the Armata tank. Is this an indentation option being prepared due to failures in Armata? And now it turns out that there is no engine for the tank either.

You have to pay for everything, the euphoria in 2014 with the creation of a new tank turned out to be in many ways a bluff, launched, in my opinion, by Dmitry Rogozin. Yuri Borisov smoothed out this effect, citing a lack of financial resources, but technical problems with the tank remained. With all the shortcomings of this concept of the tank, this is indeed a new generation tank, it contains many breakthrough ideas on the components and systems of the tank, and it will be a shame if they are not implemented in connection with the possible closure of the tank project, as it was with the project “ Boxer".

Instead of ceremonial hype, it is necessary to calmly acknowledge the failures and begin the systematic refinement of the concept of the tank and its components in accordance with the generally accepted methodology and stages of the development of armored vehicles. Over the years, tremendous experience has been accumulated, this is recognized abroad, such a reserve should not disappear without a trace, it should be used in the further development of the Soviet and Russian schools of tank building.
  • Yuri Apukhtin
  • Vitaly V. Kuzmin, vitalykuzmin.net, commons.wikimedia.org
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  1. -14
    February 9 2020
    Armata will sooner or later be brought back to normal. In 3-4 years. In the meantime, the main emphasis will be placed on the T-90m which looks very good against the background of Western competitors.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +35
        February 9 2020
        Quote: Hunter 2
        What tower from the T-90M, are you going to install there ???

        1. +4
          February 9 2020
          There is nothing. But it only dawned on me: is it during the modernization they put up a new tower? Where old? Isn’t it better to build a new tank from scratch, with a niche, and not to touch the old one?
        2. +3
          February 10 2020
          It should be a shame to the author to repeat someone else's nonsense ....
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. +40
          February 9 2020
          The site from which this "true" news is ripped off is a liberal / pro-Western tape.ru. The main thing is more hipesh. It is already possible and it is time to get used to the fact that they do nothing with us and everyone is sawing and sawing. But At them ..
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +34
            February 9 2020
            An article from the category: - There is no information, but I think that everything is bad))))
            1. +10
              February 10 2020
              It is written in black and white that the development of the engine has failed (almost 400 lyamas have been allocated for this moment). There is no engine project. With the sighting system is also a problem, in the sense of it is not. What other information are you missing? Have you ever read an article?
              1. 0
                March 8 2020
                Quote: SARANCHA1976
                Have you ever read an article?
                For this, the author did not read about the engine.
                "Chaika" is a promising high-speed diesel engine (more precisely, a family of engines). If it is not clear - with a higher liter and / or specific power. Now it is equipped with (and the engine compartment is designed) X-shaped engine A-85-3, which is not a "Chaika" and never was!
                1. 0
                  March 9 2020
                  Is everything alright with the A-85-3?
                  1. 0
                    March 10 2020
                    Quote: Andrew_A
                    Is everything alright with the A-85-3?
                    At least there was no howling about him. Yes, and the one that put it works.
                    The "Chaika", as I understand it, has a maximum RPM of 5000, not 2500 like the A-85-3. Hence, the requirements for calculating resonant loads, for fuel, oils, fuel equipment. In short, it was not possible to make a "civilian" engine with the requests of the army (pouring all sorts of nasty things, carrying heavy loads, serving in the field) ...
          3. +5
            February 10 2020
            What they have, we should be interested in from the point of view of how it is more reliable to destroy in a collision, and not how they are sawing.
          4. 0
            March 26 2020
            are you putinoid? where and who will build? vocational education has collapsed - in fact there are no personnel! where to build? - an example of the Omsk plant "flight" on the territory of the former Che current there are no landfills to shopping centers and residential buildings
        2. +81
          February 9 2020
          Quote: figvam
          such nonsense in the article, then more questions to the author,

          In order.
          The X-shaped engine did not begin to be developed at all in 2014, it was tested on a tank and moreover, successful in the 80s
          What kind of Seagull is known only to the author and his sources.
          What is such a computer system for controlling the movement of a tank? laughing Maybe the ECM? So they try not to use common rail on military equipment, very tender. Yes, and if you put the ECM for her is not a problem.
          The author is far from this movement as a Decembrist from the people.
          Here for firing there is such a system, TBV, one of the important components of the OMS. The production of such devices is debugged and does not represent those. difficulties.
          Such articles have one purpose - to discredit the military-industrial complex, the army and the state. authorities of the Russian Federation.
          The fact that Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang are not immediately released in thousands of copies has one reason - the unwillingness of the country's leadership to get involved in a devastating arms race and the ability to solve the current tasks of Russian defense using what is already and quite efficiently: modernized BTT models. After all, America and comrades are not held back by tanks and armored personnel carriers
          And selling the latest designs for export is also not entirely correct. But it is necessary to bring and prepare production for them, not now, so tomorrow Armata and other equipment of a new generation will gradually be introduced.
          1. +5
            February 9 2020
            100% agree.
          2. +20
            February 10 2020
            Be that as it may, there is no tank in the troops. This is, as Bender said, a medical fact. There is no video about successful field firing (there was a broadcast on the poster, what is there to keep secret now?) There is, however, not so-so video about all sorts of "Derivations" / "Octopuses". Be liberal, though not. Apparently, there are objective difficulties in the form of staff shortages, sabotage, elementary loss of production culture and other things caused by the policy of the current leadership.
          3. +5
            February 10 2020
            they try not to use common rail on military equipment .. It's strange that the entire line of German MTUs is on mono rail and they are not only on Leopards, many countries use them. The Europack power plant with the top MTU MT 883 develops a capacity of 2740 horses. You would familiarize yourself with the topic for starters.
          4. +12
            February 10 2020
            Quote: Alekseev
            What is such a computer system for controlling the movement of a tank?

            and I will explain to you what the author had in mind. Firstly, yes, diesel comes with an electronic control system. Either Bosch, or his domestic counterpart. The second - there is a transmission control unit, it, together with the internal combustion engine ECU, closes to the BUSU - the power unit control unit. There is a suspension control unit. He and BUSU are locked on the computer IUS-Sh - information management system of the chassis. She is responsible for the movement of the tank. I hope you feel a little clearer, and that your emoticon was out of place at all.

            Quote: Alekseev
            But for shooting there is such a system

            this is a different system; the LMS is a fire control system also consisting of several computers. They are responsible for finding the target, aiming, tracking the target, firing at it. If you want, call her BIUS
            And this is not counting the electronics of "mounted" systems such as KAZ, KZVP, SEMZ, etc.
            Electronics in the tank to such a shit. So that all this works in concert - not one pound of salt should be eaten.

            Quote: Alekseev
            The fact that Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang is not immediately released in thousand copies has one reason

            not one. Including technical. I can’t tell you everything, but Kurganz had huge problems with the engine. Therefore, I am not surprised that there are similar problems on Armata.
          5. +1
            February 11 2020
            The author described similar to how on a halt hunters boast about their guns. So one boasted so much that another asked him - maybe it still shoots backwards? He answered not shoot, but yours. The questioner sighed and said mine doesn’t shoot either. But even more reminiscent, this tank is not to the liking of this author and a joke is already suitable here. In general, daughter-in-law, you are not cooking soup like that. Svekruhe - mother, tell me how I will cook. Beetroot - I don’t know how, but not so!
          6. -1
            February 12 2020
            Quote: Alekseev
            In order.

            hi all that can be said: Bravo
          7. -1
            February 12 2020
            It is possible that you are partly right. However, the Armata tank is still not in service. Meanwhile, the Germans and the French are already preparing their response against the still non-existent Armata. Unlike our deputy prime ministers and tank builders, they prefer to chat less and advertise "air", but work quickly and efficiently. With such an organization of business, our tank will never leave the stage of "cutting" the budget and development and testing, and they will quickly put their product on stream.
            1. 0
              February 13 2020
              Quote: georg.prokudin
              Meanwhile, the Germans and the French are already preparing their response against the still non-existent "Armata".

              Nevertheless, it is not even in the project yet
              Quote: georg.prokudin
              Unlike our deputy prime ministers and tank builders, they prefer to chat less and advertise "air", but work quickly and efficiently.

              You just don’t know the history of their tank building, especially after the war, otherwise you wouldn’t say so. The number of advertised, but did not go to a series of projects that absorbed many millions of financial resources they have a lot
          8. 0
            April 23 2020
            nonsense, not nonsense, but there is no tank! There is some kind of tank industry not accepted for service
        3. The comment was deleted.
    2. -1
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Sergey 777
      Armata will sooner or later be brought back to normal. In 3-4 years. In the meantime, the main emphasis will be placed on the T-90m which looks very good against the background of Western competitors.

      So they wrote in the article that there is no engine, work on it is stopped, what kind of "bring to mind" are we talking about?
      The story is similar to the Su-57, the same unfinished project for 15 years, but in the case of an airplane, at least the light at the end of the tunnel is visible, the engines are tested, the radar is tested.
      With the collapse of the Union, alas, it seems that there is no longer any brains to implement such serious projects.
      1. +17
        February 9 2020
        here I agree with you .. now the helm is at the helm of effective managers, and they know how to make beautiful pictures, and they’re optimistic .. everything is ready, they just haven’t come to work)) I somehow read the opinion that the boomerang has cooled down due to sanctions, there even Michelin wheels were not speaking of armor with protection also bourgeois, with ours he gained weight, from which he forgot how to swim .. and so on every little thing .. under the conditions of sanctions it does not work
        . good example with il 114 ..
      2. +21
        February 10 2020
        The article is bullshit, the Seagull ROC is not an Armata motor, the X-shaped for Armata has long been created and is working. It's just raw. I somehow talked with the guys from ChTZ for a long time already, somewhere in 2011-2012, they complained that they could not solve some problems with the engine. But he was already working then.

        And OCD Chaika is a completely different project.

        Regarding the tank - its fine-tuning is a matter of political will, what problems would be expected the car's percentage is too high. novelty.

        According to the mind, it should look like this: for 2020-2022, those flaws that make military operation impossible in principle are finalized, then three or four battalion units are to be purchased, which must go to different climatic zones for trial operation.

        Here it is necessary to take an important point - this operation will be a failure, and precisely because of the very technical novelty. This should simply be taken as the price of progress.

        Well, already from the experience of three or four years of operation, according to the results of identifying all the shortcomings, it will be necessary to make a new tank on the backlog of T-14. Some kind of T-14M.

        There is no other way, if we want to step into the next generation of armored vehicles, then this must be done.
        1. +1
          February 10 2020
          at 22? So many years after the show and show-offs, is there anything else to finish and again for testing?
          Running in a circle without end ... this is called ... with raspilivanie dough.
          1. +3
            February 11 2020
            Quote: 1970mk
            Running in a circle without end ... this is called ... with raspilivanie dough.
            We rolled out a conceptually new model.
            The world has caught on, now we are looking at the reaction. No one has yet decided what they can oppose, but decisions are beginning to emerge: a 140 mm cannon, then, shh ... or do you want 100500 tanks, two heads ahead of the previous generation, to be fired and then, when the world reacts, clutch its head and modernize to upgrade, upgrade?
            This despite the fact that some esperds are not found in the tank in today's battle.
          2. 0
            February 11 2020
            In another way, such a new system will not work.
      3. +3
        February 10 2020
        Quote: FRoman1984
        it seems that the brains no longer implement such serious projects.

        we still have brains, but we’re steering ... softer ...
    3. +11
      February 9 2020
      You are an optimist. Five years have passed since the first parade. With such problems, you must wait for the tank in 10 years and suddenly appearance.
    4. +12
      February 10 2020
      Where does it look? And most importantly - why was it rattle Armata, which is not already 5 years ago? The Great Patriotic War lasted 3 years 10 months. How many types of tanks were developed and went into production during this time?
    5. -2
      February 11 2020
      Well, who else doubts that Putin's Russia can not do anything? There is no hangar, no instant35, no14, no su57. How much bravado and empty boast was there, and what was the outcome? Nothing.
    6. +1
      February 11 2020
      ChTZ-Uraltrak - bankrupt.
      More than one enterprise in the Russian Federation is not able to create a serial working multi-fuel engine with a capacity of 1500+.
      Military engines create enterprises that develop and mass-produce civilian engines.
      Well, an enterprise cannot create a working reliable engine with the required characteristics if it is not able to create a working reliable civil engine.
  2. +41
    February 9 2020
    "The chef is all gone, all is gone ... The client is leaving ... The plaster is being removed ..."
    Honestly, at the expense of the engine, I don’t understand yet, but what are the reasons for the panic? Maybe you should ask, what kind of engine was installed on it earlier? Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has long gone through the entire test cycle and was installed on our experimental tanks ... I do not see any special problems so far that he would still be sipping the "Armata"
    1. +23
      February 9 2020
      And for "Armata" even today the adherents "saw the battalion with my own eyes" threw minuses to me!
      Indeed, verily - you are in their eyes, and they are God's dew!
      1. +4
        February 9 2020
        You have to pay for everything, the euphoria in 2014 with the creation of a new tank turned out to be in many ways a bluff, launched, in my opinion, by Dmitry Rogozin.

        Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..
        1. +30
          February 9 2020
          Quote: Svarog
          Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

          This is the same as drawing conclusions about the military-industrial complex in the yellow press.
          1. +24
            February 9 2020
            Quote: figvam
            Quote: Svarog
            Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

            This is the same as drawing conclusions about the military-industrial complex in the yellow press.

            Is the Vostochny cosmodrome also yellow press? Rogozin is out of place, nepotism and incompetence .. this is something that can be seen without the yellow press ..
            1. +27
              February 9 2020
              Quote: Svarog
              Is the Vostochny cosmodrome the same yellow press? Rogozin is out of place,

              I’m not talking about Rogozin, but about the Hurricane, a "specialist" in all matters.
              1. +12
                February 9 2020
                Quote: figvam
                I’m not talking about Rogozin, but about the Hurricane, a "specialist" in all matters.

                Let me agree with you, he’s still an expert .. laughing
              2. +11
                February 9 2020
                Both Rogozin and Urgant are two civil servants - employees of Agitprop. Each of them entertains the audience in different ways, but not with content, but with hype - grimaces and jumps. Some viewers puff out their cheeks on the greatness of the country on TV, others swear at the proper trampolines, while others laugh at the zombie’s flat jokes every night. Everything in business - the public released steam, the clowns received a fee, the puppeteers continue to cut the remnants of the country.
                1. +7
                  February 10 2020
                  Is Urgant a civil servant? Rather, you are sick))) Brilev broadcasting 20 years about Putin "red Sun" who has British citizenship is not a civil servant, but Urgant is a state?
        2. +7
          February 9 2020
          Have morning coffee.
          Daytime sleep.
          And an evening chair. Or Urgant.
        3. +2
          February 9 2020
          Quote: Svarog
          Urgant is very correct

          You would have dragged Petrosyan here. I also do not digest Rogozin even in scanty doses, but this skin, especially.
        4. +9
          February 10 2020
          Quote: Svarog
          Urgant spoke very correctly about Rogozin ..

          Rogozin, as a true PR specialist, spends a lot of effort, energy and money to raise his image, for the sake of interest, try here on the site in an article about space, something bad to say about him and his work, a "brave team" immediately flies in and tries to level your comment, most of all I was "killed" when one of them said that Rogozin was akin to Korolev and Glushko and even higher than them .... all out, after that information that a team was specially formed in the bowels of Roscosmos to conduct such here "upgrades and image enhancements of the head of Roscosmos" "already seems to me true
          1. +3
            February 10 2020
            that in the bowels of Roskosmos, a team has been specially formed to carry out such "upgrades and image enhancements of the head of Roscosmos," it seems to me to be true

            I agree with you one hundred percent! I believe that in general it should be prohibited by law, officials, governors and other officials to spend budget money on maintaining the image. Since the results of their work are visible to everyone. Anyone who follows and is interested ..
            Rogozin, as a true PR specialist, spends a lot of effort, energy and money to lift his image

            That is, it does not work on the image of the country, but on its own .. hi
      2. +2
        February 9 2020
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And for "Armata" even today the adherents "saw the battalion with my own eyes" threw minuses to me!

        Adherents at the signal of the host mass crush.
      3. +12
        February 9 2020
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And for "Armata" even today the adherents "saw the battalion with my own eyes" threw minuses to me!
        Indeed, verily - you are in their eyes, and they are God's dew!

        This is psychology, or rather, political technology in the military-technical sphere. And the whole thing is in the author of the article, look who he is and from where. The problem is that 70-80% read articles as news, i.e. perceive the opinion of the author or the information found somewhere by him as fact. And only 20-30% of readers who are close to some military-technical developments are able to immediately critically evaluate the incompetence of the author.
        When I was studying at the military academy, one of the professors very aptly expressed the differences in anti-jamming parameters for complexes of different development periods: "Soviet -17dB is much better than today's -20dB in the autocompensator of the suppression system." But that was 15 years ago. Now there is a feeling that when creating fundamentally new weapons systems such as the T-14 and Su-57, developers are forced to return to Soviet functional and operational requirements.
    2. +8
      February 9 2020
      Well, here is the case with the Su 57 and its engines of different stages. The second is not yet in the series and therefore they are being driven on the first. But this is just a temporary measure. It does not allow to reveal its full potential. 12n360 is a proven device, but apparently it is only enough for parades, incomplete testing and filming cycles in "Military Acceptance".
      It is hoped that the work will continue and the tank will go into a large series after 2027.
      1. +31
        February 9 2020
        pathos, but it was in THAT year ... FSE in series ... and 57e and t-14-15 ... we will beat everyone ... hurray! Well, how would it be ... they began to see the light and saw the outlines of a "Potemkin village" named after Putin, both in the economy and in politics ... and those who were "half a penny" generally "fell in love" with Garanta. I saw the carpet here in store, with the image of the Tsar, so he was lifted to the ceiling, four meters higher, above all, my question is why? saleswomen, embarrassedly said that ... tired of cleaning ... like decent people walk ... and on the carpet ... all sorts of stains ... oh, how the people love the leader. who does not believe, I will take a picture on the next trip.
        1. -25
          February 9 2020
          Quote: Dead Day
          FSE in the series ... and 57e and t-14-15

          Su-57 is already in the series.
          1. +11
            February 9 2020
            Quote: Dart2027
            Su-57 is already in the series

            I'm afraid that the "series" here is even in a worse condition than that of the Armata. You can, of course, call the prototypes the first serial ones, but this will not improve the essence of the matter. The prospects for the second stage engine are completely unclear, and there are a lot of problems with onboard electronics.
            1. +3
              February 9 2020
              Quote: syndicalist
              You can, of course, call prototypes the first production ones.

              A series of 76 boards was ordered. It is a fact. As for different generations, the development of technology is an endless process, so then there will be another generation and more, etc.
              1. +5
                February 9 2020
                Quote: Dart2027
                A series of 76 boards was ordered.

                What engines?
                1. +1
                  February 9 2020
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  what engines

                  The first from the Su-35S, which is said quite openly.
            2. -3
              February 9 2020
              Quote: syndicalist
              The vague prospects of the second stage engine, a lot of problems with on-board electronics.

              Do you own a question from within, or Wikipedia and Google?
              1. +13
                February 9 2020
                I could say with aplomb that I have "absolutely reliable" insider data, as some VO regulars do, but experience shows that the same wiki and Google are much more reliable not only dubious insider information, but also quite official statements, quite officials.
                1. -6
                  February 9 2020
                  Thank you, good luck.
            3. -5
              February 9 2020
              Well, let's get the SU - 57 stuck, like the Yankees are F - 35, so what? maybe for the better, which is slowly, but qualitatively?
              1. +4
                February 10 2020
                Quote: maxxx
                maybe for the better, which is slowly, but qualitatively?

                so look what a thing. The Americans spanked their Penguins, they fly on them. And the more the raid, the more all sorts of sores come out, which do not appear until the plane is massively flying. How to eliminate a sore 5if you don't know about it? For example, the Americans will fly the plane faster than we do, and then, having lifted the Su-57 into the air, we will face a bunch of problems. It is necessary to launch the aircraft into a series and "roll" it in order to calculate all the hidden flaws, and quickly eliminate them.
                1. 0
                  5 May 2020
                  I do not agree with you ... look at the experience of the USSR. in 1971, the future MIG-29 and SU-27 were completely ready in mock-ups, however, in 1983, if I remember correctly, only the MIG-29 went into the series (there were about 5 units like the prototypes), and the SU - 27, they worked on it for a long time, they had no order with the glider, or rather with the wing ... hence the conclusion, it’s not necessary to rivet hundreds to create a good car. because these two planes are wonderful cars, do you think?)
          2. +5
            February 10 2020
            The first serial of the party for delivery to the troops was defeated before the New Year at the factory tests before delivery
        2. +4
          February 10 2020
          pathos, but it was in that year.

          The fools have already said that NATO is about to dissolve itself, fearing the technological power and the Armat armies that have no analogues. laughing
    3. +9
      February 9 2020
      Sv67-Sergey, those engines that pull the tank poorly, this is especially noticeable when driving on rough terrain for a long time, the thrust drops, the engine starts to overheat and buzz a la high-voltage transformer! For the parade, and driving on the autobahns, these engines will go and for war not! In addition, problems with field repairs were not even resolved.
      1. +8
        February 9 2020
        Quote: Thrifty
        In addition, problems with field repairs were not even resolved.

        Sorry, but the technique is oversaturated with electronics for field repair is not well adapted.
        1. +5
          February 9 2020
          Sv67- Sergey, did you have to change the engine on the tank in the field, say, in bad weather? I was not a tanker, but was attached to such a regiment during exercises, and on T72 I changed the engine in the field with the crew, and on T14, what is shoved as the main engine is unnecessarily difficult, capricious, and of little repair. Him and change the problem is still that!
          1. +4
            February 10 2020
            Quote: Thrifty
            Sv67- Sergey, did you have to change the engine on the tank in the field, say, in bad weather?

            Yes, I had to, and on different models and let's say, pleasure is below average
            Quote: Thrifty
            Him and change the problem is still that!

            But this is not a fact. We need to see how it is installed there, they can install it as on Western tanks, install the module, and in this case, the replacement will be done within an hour.
            1. 0
              February 10 2020
              It’s not regrettable, but before the German Europack,
              1. 0
                February 10 2020
                Quote: SARANCHA1976
                It’s not regrettable, but before the German Europack,

                Are you talking about that German Europark in which 14% of the equipment is on the go? wassat
                1. 0
                  February 10 2020
                  and where did you get that the point here is specifically?
                  1. 0
                    February 10 2020
                    I just reminded that the "German Europark", which you propose to strive for, is now doing about the same as the skaxauls in the Square wink
                    1. +1
                      February 10 2020
                      ah understood what the joke is, you read how Europark and this is Europack. Powerplant Euro Power Pack.
                      https://e-libra.ru/files/books/2019/02/20/398751/i_171.jpg
                      1. 0
                        February 11 2020
                        and for sure laughing
                        but in essence it doesn't change anything. the combat readiness of equipment with "Europack" is lower than that of the Russian one. so should you strive for something less functional?
                      2. -1
                        February 11 2020
                        the essence of my previous answer does not change the same .. but why did you get that the point here is specifically in it?
                      3. 0
                        February 11 2020
                        but why not? wink
                        replacement is made by the unit. no block, no tank. a unit is much more expensive than a single part. there is no money for the blocks as a whole, there is no equipment as a whole.
                        On the one hand, it’s good, quick replacement, but on the other hand, you can’t get off with minor field repairs, replacing the entire unit. It’s good for German industrialists to produce a product with maximum added value, rather than individual parts for repair, and for us (Russia) it’s good that the Bundeswehr runs with sticks laughing everyone is happy. soldier
                        PS
                        just don’t tell that they are being repaired in the field without replacing the entire unit. no manufacturer will accept their equipment with broken seals for repair wink
                      4. -1
                        February 12 2020
                        I repeat. and where did you get that the point here is specifically? Answer. And why not .. just a kindergarten.
                      5. 0
                        February 13 2020
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        just a kindergarten.

                        very interesting argument laughing
                        I wrote my thoughts on this issue, you have not given any facts to the contrary. that is, your arguments have not yet been substantiated at all. hmmm .. it turns out you have not a kindergarten, but a nursery group? belay
                      6. -1
                        February 13 2020
                        At least I give figures and arguments in the dispute, and not my own opinion. Well, besides these mythical 12%, aren't you funny yourself?
                      7. +1
                        February 13 2020
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        At least I give figures and arguments in the dispute

                        what kind? about "kindergarten"? they are not numbers or arguments. you are cunning again.
                        I gave arguments when I described why, presumably, things are so bad in the Bundeswehr. you could not present a single counterargument or fact.
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        Well, besides these mythical 12%, aren't you funny yourself?

                        OU! excuse me. really not 12, but 14%. More recently, an article on VO was about the combat readiness of German armored vehicles. by the way the Germans wrote. wink didn't you read?
                      8. 0
                        February 16 2020
                        Arguments from the series, I think so? Concrete is simple. And something I did not see in this article the combat readiness of the main tanks of Germany at the level of 14%. Lay out the general temperature in the hospital as you need, according to MBT. Your 14% belonged to the air force no matter how regrettable it is for you. No need to manipulate numbers.
                      9. -1
                        February 17 2020
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        Arguments from the series, I think so? Concrete is simple.

                        these are arguments if you are suddenly not in the know. concrete, not concrete, but arguments Yes what do you have zero. zero. nothing at all except pompous statements about some kind of kindergarten wink
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        And something I did not see in this article the combat readiness of the main tanks of Germany at the level of 14%.

                        Of course not seen. by reading an article in which it is not mentioned. I told you about the article about BMP Puma. wink
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        Lay out the general temperature in the hospital as you need, according to MBT.

                        so you sort of already found wink
                        Only 101 Leopard 2 tanks out of 245 in the army are in readiness. Of 284 heavy infantry fighting vehicles "Puma", only 67 units are combat-ready. Of the 237 "Boxer" armored personnel carriers, 120 are on the move, of the 220 reconnaissance armored vehicles "Fennek" - 116. Of the 121 self-propelled armored howitzer PzG2000 - 46

                        would you risk saying that this is normal?
                      10. 0
                        February 17 2020
                        I’m risking saying that I didn’t see your interest here. And even these figures in the article are very arbitrary. No need to align the term combat ready and broken, does not work. The same BMP cougar on paper stocks is not ready because the first batch of cars are defective. What is the defect? Yes, you know the hatches pass water through the seals .. that, as it were, does not interfere with the battle. At first you would have shoved other sources instead of dancing from one article
                      11. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        I’m risking saying that I didn’t see your interest here.

                        hmmm ... there are numbers, do not take a percentage? math is not your hobby? what
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        And even these figures in the article are very arbitrary. No need to align the term combat ready and broken, does not work.

                        I'm puzzled again. the Germans seem to have written quite clearly "not combat ready." neither "something is wrong there," nor "has a malfunction," namely, "not combat-ready."
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        What is the defect? Yes, you know the hatches pass water through the seals .. that as if it does not interfere with the battle.

                        if the technique is "not combat-ready" then this wording means that the technique cannot participate in combat. it is possible that all 100% Pumas have defects (well, what do you want, German quality by the hands of African migrants laughing ) but 86% of them have such defects that they cannot go into battle or take part in exercises.
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        At first you would have shoved other sources instead of dancing from one article

                        I'm at work wink I can still answer a couple of comments while the base is being processed, but I don’t have time for any representative studies of the reliability and quality of German motor packages. request if you have time to find the facts of operation and provide links to reports on the reliability of engines, preferably by years to compare them with the influx of migrants, it would be very convincing! much more convincing than the "kindergarten" argument wink

                        PS
                        a bit offtopic .. but why do you have a Maidan fist with a Colorado ribbon on your avatar? how do you symbolize the orange revolutions intertwined with pro-Russian symbols?
                      12. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        For representative research, what would something prove to an expert on European arms? Yes, throw me a pity on this time.
                        PS
                        Offtop. Maidan’s fist with a Colorado ribbon is the emblem of the 1st LPR People’s Brigade. Her fighters, if you wish, will explain in detail both about the fist and about the tape. I have the honor
                      13. 0
                        February 16 2020
                        https://topwar.ru/166073-konec-bundesvera-ili-chto-proishodit-s-nemeckimi-tankami.html вы про это что ли? Так там тоже ваших 14% не наблюдается. Потому что 14% боеготовой техники в армии это катастрофа для любого государства что Германии что Молдавии. За 14% выносят на пинках министерство обороны с ген.штабом....
                      14. -1
                        February 17 2020
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        https://topwar.ru/166073-konec-bundesvera-ili-chto-proishodit-s-nemeckimi-tankami.html вы про это что ли? Так там тоже ваших 14% не наблюдается.

                        well, how is it not observed? it is written: "Of 284 heavy infantry fighting vehicles" Puma "only 67 units are ready."
                        and there is an article personally on Pumas, where their combat readiness is rated even lower. mind you, the Germans.
                        Quote: SARANCHA1976
                        Because 14% of combat-ready equipment in the army is a disaster for any state that Germany is that of Moldova. Over 14% carry out on kicks the Ministry of Defense with the General Staff ....

                        not. for the Bundeswehr norms wink I gave you the numbers above. for BMP those same 14%.
                        "kicked out"? ha ha ha ha wassat indeed, at such kicks that Frau Von Der Lane from this kick flew right into the presidents of the European Commission laughing I think this is a suitable grave digger for the EU Yes
        2. -1
          February 10 2020
          But all over the world they somehow manage
      2. +7
        February 9 2020
        Then explain why the "thrust falls" - if the shortcomings of the cooling system are one thing, if the resource (pistons, for example, burn out or rings), this is different, or maybe he needs to put the exhaust pipe higher so that the thrust is ... or maybe it's transmissions ... - not clear.
        And most importantly - who will be responsible for this whistle. Well this smells like a grandiose swindle in a particularly cynical form.
        1. -3
          February 9 2020
          Mark1 I can’t give an explanation, because I’m not dedicated to such problems, but the facts have a place to be, and they were recorded for reports!
          1. +10
            February 9 2020
            Thrifty - I think that you are still not a humanitarian person (although it does not really matter). Think for yourself - the engine has existed since the 60s of the last century, in addition, it passed state tests on ob. 195. and then, note, the thrust was enough for him (and the mass of the tank was greater). Ie someone is cheating. either then or now ... I repeat, ob. 195 passed state tests and was recommended for adoption! They said it's expensive, we will make it cheaper and better based on this product. No sooner said than done, in 15 they showed a batch of tanks at the parade ... and that's it! ... it all started from the beginning. a new engine, throwing a cannon, a return to the "Breakthrough" theme, etc., etc. A new stage in the development of funds has begun ... the visible result, but the amount of the invested bubble has already exceeded the cost of the program by ob. 2027!
            1. -12
              February 9 2020
              Mark1 means, and the test process could surface problems that were not noticed before. Note that T14 is lower than T95, it is possible that on T95 the engine was larger at least higher, and on T14 in this version it did not fit in, it was necessary to redo it. So it turned out that the good got mediocre. With a change in altitude, power also fell, which inevitably increased fuel consumption, there may also be problems in the gearbox, because it was also larger at a higher T95.
              1. +5
                February 9 2020
                Quote: Thrifty
                it is possible that on the T95 the engine was larger at least taller, but on the T14 in this version it did not fit in corny, I had to redo it.

                Suddenly ... fresh ... actually the engine did not change.
                Quote: Thrifty
                there may be problems in the gearbox, for it was also larger on the higher T95.

                Yes, you, my friend, theorist!
                1. -4
                  February 9 2020
                  Mark1 - just had no access to the T95. .. maybe I didn’t have yet ... therefore I am building such theories.
            2. +3
              February 10 2020
              Quote: mark1
              in addition, he passed state tests on ob. 195.

              And before that, he was fully exploited on one of the options vol. 187
              This "copy No. 4 is in the" Kalashny row "", it is equipped with a new MTO with an A-85-2 engine
              1. 0
                February 11 2020
                Quote: svp67
                it is equipped with a new MTO with the A-85-2 engine

                By the way, the hull is only 30 cm longer than the T-72 hull, but the engine compartment with a 1200 horsepower engine with its cooling system also fit into it, and the weakened zone in the area of ​​the driver's viewing devices (the so-called "neckline") was removed.
        2. +2
          February 10 2020
          Quote: mark1
          Then you explain from what the "craving falls"

          Specialists, I think I’ve already figured it out, there are many options. From overheating of the lower cylinder heads to clogging of the air filter ... In any case, when this engine was run in experimental tanks, the problem of overheating of the lower cylinder heads was noted, but there the MTO tanks had a smaller volume, and here it is, if it’s clear to the eye to compare, it’s clearly more, in any case, in height, it also means the possibility of placing and arranging the cooling system higher
          1. +3
            February 10 2020
            Quote: svp67
            Specialists, I think I’ve figured it out already,

            Believe me, I have no doubts about the competence of specialists (at least, the fact that it is higher than mine is indisputable). But after all, they have been sorting it out for 30 years, for 30 years they have been traveling in a vicious circle. It seems to me that this is not so much a technical problem as a leadership crisis.
    4. +10
      February 9 2020
      Tsayk's engine is not actually the one that was installed on the T-14. The fact is that it was developed for a reason. 12n360 is not as tested and reliable as many people think. Despite decades of development and testing, despite trials on the Object 187 and more recently on the T-14 tank, this engine is clearly in trouble when looking for alternatives.
      However, in my opinion, the problem is not only in the engine. The problem is the unmanned tower and its real reliability on the battlefield - it is not without reason that BMP PUMA also has problems at various competitions and tenders.

      There are also costs. Especially when a very good, excellent T-90M "Breakthrough" with the same gun in production. When factories are busy with a very successful T-72B3M retrofit with significant impact at a decidedly lower cost

      Of course, the T-14 will be finalized and will go into service, but already as a fully operational tank, possibly with a 152-mm gun 2A83.
      1. +2
        February 9 2020
        when? 10 years from now?
        And he will not be out of date by that time?
        1. +5
          February 9 2020
          Please note that modern tanks are almost 30-40 years old.
          And they will last another 20-30 years. "T-14" is a tank of a completely new generation - in the West these are just beginning to develop and sooner than in 10-15 years they will not be in operation.
          1. -3
            February 9 2020
            well, that is, a breakthrough that has no analogues in the world, about which the last 5 years have shouted, no.
            What do we have, that in 10 years they will have new generation tanks
            1. +3
              February 9 2020
              You definitely have a Breakthrough - in my opinion a very good tank. No worse than Leopard 2A6 or current Abrams - maybe even better.

              The T-14 is actually an analogue (very similar in any case) of the Abrams TTB - there it ended as a prototype
              1. -2
                February 9 2020
                I did not mean the name Tank Breakthrough project.
                Quote: Constanty
                The T-14 is actually an analogue (very similar anyway) to Abrams

                you are not in the subject at all
                The T-14 "chip" is an uninhabited tower. Indeed, no one in the world (including the Abrams) has such a thing ... Not even close
                If the T-14 weren’t a PR, but a real tank with a real prospect of getting into service, one could justifiably shout about a breakthrough that has no analogues in the world
                and so ... PR and only
                1. +2
                  February 9 2020
                  In my opinion, the T-90M has a very adequate name, and the layout and construction system of both the TTB and the T-14 is very similar (including the uninhabited tower and crew in the capsule.)


                  . The Americans failed to do this to the end,
                  All you need is to modify the already existing masterpiece - T-14
                2. -1
                  February 12 2020
                  If yes, if only. Why are you talking about what you don’t understand? On the new platform, ordered more than a hundred different machines for running-in and refinement. They are produced. Others do not even have prototype counterparts to such machines.
      2. +4
        February 10 2020
        Of course, the T-14 will be finalized and will go into service

        What the well-developed t-14 is developing, what will soon be excellent too, But why drag prototypes to the parade?
    5. +2
      February 9 2020
      Quote: svp67
      Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has long gone through the entire test cycle and was installed on our experimental tanks ... I do not see any special problems so far that he would still be sipping the "Armata"

      This is where the misunderstandings begin - there are engines (but why did they decide to make it even "better"), there is even a prototype of the tank (the T-95 was almost ready for production in due time), the impression is that problems are specifically looking for. Let me remind you that the "Armata" theme was started because of the allegedly dorgoviznosti object 195, but it seems that the customer has already forgotten about this and the process is going on for the sake of the process.
    6. +6
      February 9 2020
      Quote: svp67
      Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has already passed the entire test cycle for a LONG time and was installed on our experimental tanks ..

      Exactly. And for some reason the author is sure that the "seagull" and the X-shaped engine are one and the same. The X-shaped engine was at our facilities-187, it was also at the facility-219RD (St. Petersburg version of the diesel 80),
      A variation of the same engine, together with the transmission, went through a full cycle of tests at the 195 object and, I suspect, the same transmission, together with the engine from the 195 object, migrated to the T-14. But for some reason they suddenly decided that this engine was not good enough, so they began to develop the "Seagull".
      With Kurgan, the same garbage: they wanted to put one engine, then decided another. As a result, the situation is like a buridan donkey with two haystacks.
      1. +7
        February 9 2020
        Incidentally, as one of the options could consider a turbine. If I remember correctly, 1500 horses have long been ready. After all, once it was planned to produce one tank with two transmission options (with a turbine and diesel)
        1. +1
          February 10 2020
          Did this idea ever be abandoned ?!
        2. +1
          February 10 2020
          Quote: Bad_gr
          If I remember correctly, 1500 horses have long been ready

          Yes, here some people promise that they can “easily” deliver a GTE in 1800 or even 2000 for a tank ... I don’t know. I don't know if a 45-ton tank needs such power? How much fuel and "clean air" does it need?
      2. +8
        February 10 2020
        This is government policy - not to finish anything. Approved by advisers from the IMF and the CIA.
      3. +2
        February 10 2020
        Quote: Bad_gr
        the engine was on objects-187he stood on facility-219RD (St. Petersburg version of the diesel 80s),

        Yes, another tank with this engine forgot to mention - Object-785 (Chelyabinsk).
        "........ To reduce the size of the MTU, an ejector engine cooling system was used. But its performance was not enough to ensure effective heat removal, and the 2B type engine in comparison with the" classic "V-2 had a very noticeably increased heat dissipation. .... "
        The same thing, they did not bring to mind, the work was stopped. Although the tank loomed quite promising: with a 130mm caliber gun and 30 shells in the conveyor (only 50 yat)
        1. 0
          February 10 2020
          Quote: Bad_gr
          To reduce the dimensions of the MTU, an ejector engine cooling system was used.

          The T-64 and T-80UD have such, it is strange that it did not go to the "785". They write about a big loss of power, apparently this is due to the use of a four-stroke engine, and not two-stroke ones like on "64" and "UDeshki"
          1. +1
            February 10 2020
            At the St. Petersburg facility-219RD, the same ejection cooling of the X-shaped (2V-16-2) engine, but how it showed itself, I did not come across any information.



            As I understand it, the 2B-16-2 is a 16-cylinder, and it was worse than the current 12-cylinder.
            Just now I noticed that this object has a chassis of not 80s, but from the T-64
            1. 0
              February 10 2020
              It turns out that this object was written here https://topwar.ru/27276-tank-obekt-219rd-i-dvigatel-2v-16-2.html . In my opinion, interesting.
              1. +1
                February 11 2020
                Quote: Bad_gr
                In my opinion, interesting.

                Yes. I agree. In this story, it is most unfortunate that when creating the T-80U, T-80UD and especially the T-90, they did not want to install a "monoblock - MTO" on the tank. This is most of all a pity. And at the expense of the engine, there are many interesting things. Please note that about the decrease in power in a 16-cylinder when working with a "no gu-gu" injection system, but in a 12-cylinder they showed up ... agree strangely.
            2. +1
              February 10 2020
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Just now I noticed that this object has a chassis of not 80s, but from the T-64

              Sorry, lied sad . Chassis T-80
            3. +1
              February 11 2020
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Just now I noticed that this object has a chassis of not 80s, but from the T-64

              No, the hodovka is not 64, look at the skating rink
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Sorry, lied. Chassis T-80

              The same is sin to me, it happens
              1. +1
                February 11 2020
                Quote: svp67
                No, the hodovka is not 64, look at the skating rink

                They seemed to be flat as plates. Enlarged picture - flat. I did not pay attention to the outer bandage. Then I found other photos where everything is visible without question. In practice, the T-80 rollers didn’t come across to me (I only dealt with large ones from the T-55-62), but if the rollers from the T-80 are disassembled into the inner and outer parts, the photo that led me astray looks like the outer part of the rollers is shot .
                1. +1
                  February 11 2020
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  but if the rollers from the T-80 are disassembled into the inner and outer parts, in the photo that misled me, it looks like the outer part of the rollers is shot.

                  Yes, they are designed exactly like that, and given that they are also made of light alloy, then ...
          2. 0
            February 11 2020
            Quote: svp67
            They write about a big loss of power,

            So it’s not a fact that on the T-64, T-80UD, T-84 there is no similar power loss. After all, the power of their engines was measured, most likely, at the stand, where it was unlikely that there was a native ejector-type cooling system.
            The cooling system of the Leopard-2 tank, although with fans, but takes away 250 horses from a diesel engine (apparently due to the ring-shaped radiators, which are less efficient than the classic ones). At the T-90, the cooling fan used to take 90 horses from a diesel engine, but the fan was replaced and now 75 hp are lost on it (this is data on the T-90 with a 1000-strong engine)
            1. 0
              February 11 2020
              Quote: Bad_gr
              So it’s not a fact that on the T-64, T-80UD, T-84 there is no similar power loss.

              And due to what? There the exhaust pipes are in the box of the ejector and during their work they create air draft through radiators, I honestly don’t understand what kind of hassle there is ...
              1. +1
                February 11 2020
                Quote: svp67
                And due to what? There the exhaust pipes are in the ejector box and during their work create air draft through radiators,

                As I understand it, the exhaust from the engine goes not just into the box, but is distributed between multiple nozzles, and their narrowing makes it difficult to exhaust, hence the drop in engine power.
                1. 0
                  February 11 2020
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  but distributed between multiple nozzles,

                  So then. But everywhere it is written that the T-72 had engine power loss of 15%, which was not the case with the T-64.
            2. Alf
              +2
              February 11 2020
              Quote: Bad_gr
              So it’s not a fact that on the T-64, T-80UD, T-84 there is no similar power loss.

              Is.
              1. 0
                February 11 2020
                Quote: Alf
                Is.

                hi Something has become blind, I can’t make out the letters, you can write what is written for the characteristic
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  February 11 2020
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: Alf
                  Is.

                  hi Something has become blind, I can’t make out the letters, you can write what is written for the characteristic

                  The maximum engine power of a gas turbine engine is 1250 l / s, on the drive wheel-950 l / s.
                  The 6TD-2 has 1200 horses and 875 mares on the wheel.
                  1. 0
                    February 11 2020
                    Quote: Alf
                    The maximum engine power of a gas turbine engine is 1250 l / s, on the drive wheel-950 l / s.
                    The 6TD-2 has 1200 horses and 875 mares on the wheel.

                    Something very big losses, here they are clearly due to the design of the BKP (on-board gearboxes), which means the T-72 they are even larger, due to the fan drive
                    1. Alf
                      0
                      February 11 2020
                      What I found, then laid out.
                      I'll try to print the other day, then scan at maximum resolution and drive it back into the network. I’ll drop it personally, the table is very interesting.
                      1. 0
                        February 11 2020
                        Quote: Alf
                        I’ll drop it personally, the table is very interesting.

                        Thank you in advance
                    2. +1
                      February 11 2020
                      Quote: svp67
                      which means the T-72 have them even more, due to the fan drive

                      Not a fact: there the ejector takes the power from the engine, then the direct power take-off for the fan - which way is the more energy-intensive question.
                      Behind the ejector, plus is compactness. You can write down the simplicity of the design as a plus (no mechanics). But the effectiveness, I would question. And if it is less effective, then more power should be lost on it when performing the same tasks (dumping excess heat)
                  2. 0
                    February 11 2020
                    Quote: Alf
                    The maximum engine power of a gas turbine engine is 1250 l / s, on the drive wheel-950 l / s.
                    The 6TD-2 has 1200 horses and 875 mares on the wheel.

                    Our gas turbine engine does not have an external cooling system. The power of the gas turbine engine 1250 and 6TD-2 is approximately equal. Both transmissions are similar (two planetary gearboxes), which means that the power on the drive wheel of a tank with 6TD-2 will be equal, other things being equal, minus losses on the cooling system: 950 - 875 = 75 hp
                    Where am I mistaken?
                    1. 0
                      February 12 2020
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      Where am I mistaken?

                      There are no exact characteristics, but most likely the fact is that a tank with a gas turbine engine has 4 forward gears, and a tank with a diesel engine has 7 ... the number of boosters and planetary gears is different, so I think of these 75 "horses", something they will fall, but then again BUT ... and what is the connection between these engines and the transmission. In one case, it is mechanical, this is for a diesel engine, in the other, it is air-dynamic, and here the loss is clearly higher in the second. So what you need to look for characteristics
                      1. 0
                        February 12 2020
                        By the way, in our tropical BMP-3, the ejector cooling system was supplemented with a forced one (with a fan).
                        An additional window next to the exhaust (top photo)

                      2. 0
                        February 12 2020
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        By the way, in our tropical BMP-3, the ejector cooling system was supplemented with a forced

                        And again, the four-stroke engine, and its operating speed is lower than that of two-stroke engines
                      3. 0
                        February 12 2020
                        Quote: svp67
                        And again, the four-stroke engine, and its operating speed is lower than that of two-stroke engines

                        BMP-1-2, BMD-1-2-3-4-4M - for all four-stroke engines with an ejector cooling system - I have not heard of problems with engine cooling. If there is information about this, I would listen with gratitude.
                      4. 0
                        February 12 2020
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        BMP-1-2, BMD-1-2-3-4-4M - for all four-stroke engines with an ejector cooling system - I have not heard of problems with engine cooling.

                        I haven’t heard the same thing, but it would be necessary to compare the operational revolutions of the engines used. The UTD-20 is very high-speed. Its operational revolutions are higher than that of the UTD-29 BMP-3. BMD engines, especially BMD-3,4, generally have an interesting design and many features ...
                        I don’t know if you had to read or not, but I’m dumping the article, I consider it quite informative
                        http://otvaga2004.ru/tanki/istoriya-sozdaniya/nelegkaya-sudba-legkogo-tanka-legkij-tank-obekt-934-sudya/3/
                      5. 0
                        February 13 2020
                        Quote: svp67
                        http://otvaga2004.ru/tanki/istoriya-sozdaniya/nelegkaya-sudba-legkogo-tanka-legkij-tank-obekt-934-sudya/3/

                        Thanks for the information.
                        According to the article
                        With engines it is clear: both 2B-06 and UTD-29 are both in production. And even on equipment with maximum unification are both (on BMP-3 - UTD-29, on BMD-4m - 2V-06)
                        On the way - understandable.
                        The question remains; was it possible to create a single transmission?


                    2. 0
                      February 17 2020
                      Turbo80 isn't GOP worth it?
    7. +1
      February 10 2020
      So he stands there, the article is crap
    8. +2
      February 10 2020
      Before the development of some semi-mythical "Seagull" was installed 12n360 (A-85-3). Which has already passed the entire test cycle for a LONG time and was installed on our experimental tanks.

      It seems to me that with the engine you are not quite right. I rely on the data from the times of the Soviet Union, but if an "A" is indicated in the engine brand, then this indicates that the engine is not yet fully ready. this concerns the documentation of the Chelyabinsk plant. I, at one time worked with the A-65 engine, after completing the entire test program, it turned into a B-84. It has always been easier for us to destroy the country than to change the technical documentation. But I think so, I can be mistaken.
  3. -1
    February 9 2020
    The author thickened the paint a little, but there is some truth here. They wanted to put the engine "temporary", the one that is forced on the T72B3, but it also does not pull the T14. The main problem is the difficulty of repairing the tank in the field, in the contradictions between the original version and what the military requires. Now they want to solve the problem by creating a certain batch of "budget" T14, but the main problem with the power plant has not yet been solved! The military wants to have on the tank everything that was in the terms of reference - KAZ, a drone for reconnaissance, dynamic protection throughout the vehicle, and not selectively, but otherwise - grilles. Because of this, the weight has grown higher than stated. Generally, the problems can be solved, but the swing began again - how many and in what version to supply tanks, whether to stretch the implementation of the program ...
    1. +14
      February 9 2020
      Not true - on the T-72B3 the V-92C2 engine, on the T-14 prototypes - the 12n360 engine - These are completely different engines
      1. 0
        February 9 2020
        Konstantin - On the T14, they’re trying any option now, just to get a more or less acceptable option, but it’s not good, because they need an engine for this particular tank, and not different alterations. There is a pursuit of the result to splurge!
    2. +1
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Thrifty
      The military wants to have everything on the tank that was in the terms of reference -KAZ, a drone for reconnaissance, dynamic protection throughout the vehicle, and not selectively

      And they absolutely rightly wish. For the T-14 has no other advantages over the T-90. Failure of 152 mm. the guns made all this fuss with Armata meaningless. In its current form, the T-14 has no advantages over existing tanks.
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        1. +4
          February 9 2020
          Facade, when there is nothing besides ambition, it remains to scoff at others!
    4. +13
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Fasad
      hang Colorado ribbons

      Come Bandera.
  5. -9
    February 9 2020
    Colossal experience has been gained over the years.
    Have they not learned how to work in thirty years?
    How they worked, such is the experience.
  6. -9
    February 9 2020
    shuffle shorter, and we see in the parades and a small number in the troops. and what words they said they promised)))))
  7. +3
    February 9 2020
    I have already thrown in and I still throw in a bunch of versions by the troll, choose any and do the "analysis"!
    The tank will do, not today so tomorrow. What is the problem then?
    Again we will refer to "there is no money, but you ... do something there."
    Okay, a lot of this happens with us, not in the end after a fire.
    They’ll make it, then we'll see.
    1. +4
      February 9 2020
      It’s funny, he wrote that they SCREWED the versions AND SCROLL THE STILL, and it was printed as if he was concocting them himself ???
      Quote: rocket757
      Already threw and still throw a bunch of versions of the troll,

      Interesno, but why did it "happen ??? like in" trolls "never listed?
    2. +3
      February 10 2020
      Bad approach. Not today. So tomorrow. Not in a year, so in two, etc. And now all this is normally perceived in all aspects of life.
      1. 0
        February 10 2020
        Can you change something? How?
        1. +6
          February 10 2020
          Personally, unfortunately not. My measures are too radical;)
          1. +2
            February 10 2020
            This too often comes to my mind ... at the expense of the tail, which is cut to the ears.
            Give the people will, the list of candidates for ... shortening, it would turn out to be long. BUT ... but then all sorts of different restrictions, prohibitions and punishments, for excessive "emotionality" may follow.
            In short, at the moment, under the circumstances, is not an option.
    3. +1
      February 17 2020
      It's just that people get used to it .. and if a fire is needed today, it will turn out as usual tomorrow
      1. 0
        February 17 2020
        So far, everything rests on serious, "vigorous" arguments. They will end not directly tomorrow, so it is necessary to prepare an answer not directly for tomorrow, but after tomorrow. All intermediate options are just an experiment, preparation for what the enemy may have the day after tomorrow.
        Something like this, I think, that's why I'm not "seething" about any delays, the main thing is to be ready for later, but so thoroughly, lethally!
        1. +1
          February 17 2020
          So this is a no-brainer, it just jars when "respected" people from the screens rattle with words and then their deputies mumble something indistinctly or carry nonsense with a clear look
          1. +1
            February 17 2020
            An irresponsible chatterbox, smoothly becoming empty \ dumb ... this is our reality.
            The root word is RESPONSIBILITY!
  8. +4
    February 9 2020
    Link to "Lenta.ru". This publication, except as a trash heap, and I do not want to call it, let alone comment on its articles and conclusions ... But in essence the question is chatter, it is chatter. Whether this product will be in the army this year or not - it's not up to us sitting on the couch to decide. And in any case, it does not depend on us. So - chases in each discussion from empty to empty. (Boring, girls. (C)).
    1. +5
      February 9 2020
      Gray-haired hi - the tank was driven to different training grounds, it is natural, as it is natural that among the workers of the UVZ there appeared accurate information that the military was not happy with what is there. Problems, of course, are solved, but a lot of contradictions, such as urgently making a batch of "budget" tanks, with truncated functions, and completing the main version of the tank with a password. It's just unnecessary hassle, and throwing from side to side does not add optimism. ..
  9. +5
    February 9 2020
    Five years ago, I warned that the Nizhny Tagil project of promising MBT would end in zilch
    https://topwar.ru/82625-armata-kak-unificirovannaya-gusenichnaya-platforma.html

    Nevertheless, fans of the cargo cult sold a purely Western shed on wheels and even with an X-shaped diesel engine, which was recognized stillborn during the USSR.

    The Ground Forces of the RF Armed Forces need a really promising project - in the classic dimensions of domestic tanks with six pairs of road wheels, a modern high-temperature gas turbine engine, an all-aspect KAZ of the "Arena" type, unitary BOPSs of 125 mm caliber in the turret aft niche or with separate loading of the ARS of 160 mm caliber, a crew of two people and an artificial intelligence system such as "Hunter", circular optoelectronic view and augmented reality helmet-mounted screens.

    A different approach is only an imitation of development.
    1. +2
      February 9 2020
      Operator hi - there is simply a strong contradiction between the desire of the army and the possibility of production. Moreover, there were a lot of things they wanted and could do at the UVZ itself, but other lobbies turned out to be stronger, and some of the equipment had to be done by outsiders. And they do not have enough resources, not finances. As a result, they left the tank without all-round cameras, because it’s expensive, and cheap low-quality ones go. Such throwing only slows down the work on the tank. It is necessary to remove those who got into protection contracts, who came for money, for imitation of work. ..
      1. +8
        February 9 2020
        There are no contradictions (except in the minds of fans of the cargo cult):
        - there are modern domestic turboshaft gas turbine engines for helicopters; a mechanical transmission has been tested on the T-80;
        - make a 125-mm gun under the unitary as two fingers on the asphalt;
        - the automatic loader in the aft niche of the tower was implemented back in the shaggy 1997 at object 640 "Black Eagle";
        - AI "Okhotnik" was developed for the Su-57 and is quite suitable for tank adaptation;
        - in the presence of a mass of commercial augmented reality systems on the market, it is a shame to put displays in the BO of the tank that will fail immediately after the first hit of the shell on the armor.
        1. 0
          February 9 2020
          Operator, have you ever seen displays on military vehicles that are disconnected from the bonus vibration? Believe it or not, this was the case, put by civilian crooked "specialists", in fact, office workers from the supplier!
          1. -3
            February 9 2020
            This is not about vibration, but about shaking from the impact of a shell on the armor, after which steel parts connected by welding fly off from it from the inside, and not just some displays there.
            1. +4
              February 9 2020
              Operator, we are talking about changing the level of training of specialists even for the military-industrial complex, because there is no succession of generations. It has become "unfashionable" to work, trade is the ideal of modern youth.
        2. +1
          February 10 2020
          why scratch any nonsense
          - modern domestic turboshaft gas turbine engines ....... gas turbine engines require 3 oaz more air per liter per second than diesel, because air extraction for cleaning is 3 times higher, which forced the T-80 to recommend operation in the middle and northern latitudes yes and then with a massive vacuum cleaner in the rear of the tower, the high altitude tank GTE is generally not on the shoulder, with every 500 m of height, the power drops exponentially and at 2000 meters everything ...
          - make a 125-mm gun under a unitary ... still delusional, increase the shell’s overall dimensions, throw some more haemorrhoids to the tank crew, you’re a sadistic old man
          - automatic loader in the aft niche of the tower .... the niche of the tower will need to be thoroughly booked by throwing an extra 2-3 tons into this tower, thereby worsening its controllability, and even then this is not a panacea. if you haven’t seen it, look how the Abra and Leo are burning in Iraq and even among the Saudis
          at this stage, 72B3 and T-90 are the most advanced MBTs, the only thing the command needs to glue is that the development of all sorts of "crowbars" and cumulatives is not the required denomination for a tank, which takes up extra space in the current conditions, it is enough to have UR ​​tank KUV and PF in the ammunition load ... that's all for a short time
          1. 0
            February 10 2020
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            which forced the T-80 to recommend operation in the middle and northern latitudes

            Normally they are exploited by them in other conditions:
            Cyprus, Republic of Korea, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Angola, Egypt


            1. 0
              February 10 2020
              They are normally exploited in other conditions: ... it is not worth wishful thinking, they did not enter service in Egiet, only pokatushki. Mongolia refused in favor of the T-72, the rest of the countries purchased this tank "detached" version of the T-80 type UD BV and actually tightly diesel T-84, so do not cast a shadow over the fence
              1. 0
                February 17 2020
                Cyprus took turbines, but there the climate is almost perfect for them
                1. 0
                  February 17 2020
                  but there for them the climate is almost perfect .... and especially the territory. what's the difference in boxing. what a turbine what a diesel, ride anyway no where
          2. -1
            February 17 2020
            air sampling for cleaning is 3 times higher, which forced the T-80 to recommend for operation ..
            Because the t80 is equipped with a miserable one-stage air purification system, a full-fledged two-stage in MTO 80ki was simply not where to put it, and the guys decided not to bother .. It will work out.
            1. 0
              February 17 2020
              Because the t80 is equipped with a miserable one-stage air purification system, ..... the Abra are not miserable, nevertheless they remained hopeless in the deserts, the stripes themselves insist on this concealing combat losses, but radish horseradish is not sweeter, even from dust even ancient RPG, abra showed full 0
              1. 0
                February 17 2020
                Abrashi has an honest two-stage cleaning system that gives clean air to the turbine even in the desert. with rather easily serviced cartridges that clean with compressed air and scrap. They were more idle waiting for fuel.
                1. 0
                  February 17 2020
                  They were more idle in anticipation of fuel .... but TU in the 24th Infantry Division didn’t think so, there was fuel, but cleaning up trouble
                  1. 0
                    February 17 2020
                    I did not read it interestingly. however, the Abrams tank air purifier required more frequent cleaning due to fine talc-like sand. Loess dust is present in all deserts. At 80 with its cleaning, it led to sintering of dust on the turbine blades up to jamming. After that, they put a samovar behind the tower and introduced a special desert mode that strangles the turbine and the traction essessno. I can imagine how many of them there would be left
                    1. 0
                      February 18 2020
                      I imagine how many of them there would be left .... they drove in Egypt and put a bullet on the turbine T-80, evil tongues say that they tried to drive in Afghanistan, but they did not go further than the Pamir
                      1. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        Well, yes, there is still a highland influences, the turbine suffocates
                      2. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        You just have to admit that the 80ka is imprisoned for the European theater. Here in the GSVG they were in their place.
                      3. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        You just have to admit that the 80ka is imprisoned for a European theater of operations ..... at the expense of the turbine 80s it’s not so hot, the installation for underwater driving is problematic, and there aren’t any pontoon parks of rivers and streams in the European theater of production ........ , in principle, the T-64 and T-80 were considered as one-day breakthrough tanks. torques and with a comfortable suspension, and that’s all, the tank for every day and any situation didn’t work out, unlike the T-72
      2. -3
        February 9 2020
        Maybe there are not enough brains?
    2. 0
      February 9 2020
      nope. I'm for a 155 mm seven-wheel drive and a diesel engine. GTE is a high-speed shed for exhibitions and parades. 125 mm does not provide an advantage and makes the whole project meaningless. 6 skating rinks today - and there is a cargo cult. "That was".
    3. +1
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Operator
      crew of two

      Your approach is even more radical than the creators of Almaty!
      1. -1
        February 9 2020
        The approach is based on developments in domestic avionics - the Hunter AI.
    4. +1
      February 10 2020
      Everyone has some kind of bzik on the gas turbine engine which has more minuses than pluses
  10. +2
    February 9 2020
    The author put together all the liberal-yellow press husk and dumped it on our heads.
    I amused the local all-singers and stooped races: well done, the weekend was not in vain!
    1. 0
      February 18 2020
      Glory to the heavens Amen
  11. +5
    February 9 2020
    Hmmm ...
    It seems to me gentlemen that all this comes from the insufficient attention of the commander in chief. From there are such big / big suspicions. I thought only we had such problems, it turns out that the tank building.
    Engine builders say there are no motors, and there won’t be ...
    Here it’s just right to intervene even to Himself! And ask questions. Why so sad? For example. What is needed to solve these problems? And the people will answer and enlighten.
    Why, for example, I am given a task at work, and I must fulfill it today (at least die, but to be ready today). And we do. And somewhere, people are cool? And unsubscribes by some general beautiful phrases?
    1. -1
      February 9 2020
      Gas cutter, this we will marry the results of import substitution in words. Fig results, if one assembled the box and others grabbed the engine, they promised, but they could not do it further than a low-power and difficult to operate and even more difficult to repair, real and inexpensive engine.
    2. +2
      February 10 2020
      Ask questions? I feel like there is a winter garden in the song .. Nobody is to blame for anything;)
  12. -2
    February 9 2020
    From the very beginning it was clear that this was a PR of pure water.
    The tank is raw and insanely expensive.
    Close this project is necessary. A tank will not go without an engine (if the truth is that work on it was closed).
    1. -7
      February 9 2020
      The concept itself is also defective .. The crew sitting in this capsule simply will not be able to really respond to the situation around ..
      1. +2
        February 9 2020
        Quote: Crystal of Truth
        The crew sitting in this capsule simply can not really respond to the situation around

        And loader return to place!
        1. -5
          February 9 2020
          I don’t know about the loader, but in a difficult situation it will be unrealistic to react to all changes from this armored capsule ..
          1. +1
            February 12 2020
            It is possible to teach the crew to work with observation cameras, to train the skill, too, will not be difficult, because the drones are driving on the display. Another thing is that the crew will not have a completely "comfortable" perception of the situation, no matter how much they train. Try to drive, in the city, a car according to the image on the display. At what second will you hear the characteristic crackle? In addition, a tanker with such skills and craftsmanship becomes a "piece goods". This is not acceptable for a big war. And why then a tank with such data, if not for mixing with nata?
            1. 0
              February 13 2020
              And I'm talking about .. Going to a position and shooting at a target of 3 kilometers is one thing .. And getting into trouble in the city for example, it will be really bad
            2. +1
              February 17 2020
              Try to drive, in a city, a car according to the image on the display ... you might think that in a triplex the image and information content is better ????? Well, tode you should still get into the tank and feel the perception from the triplex and TPN, the view from the PNM Pine is even more beautiful, you can, like a seasoned pirate, do a "kutuzovka" by eye, and besides, you have stuck a pine tree so that a weighty one will fit on the right shoulder parrot cockatoo, that's when you climb into the T-72b3 tank then the reasoning will be what is acceptable for a big war and what is not
              1. 0
                February 18 2020
                In the capsule of Almaty, as I understand it, the review is only by cameras, with the image being transmitted to the display. Maybe I'm wrong.
                When I served, besides triplex there was nothing. And in the betar and motor-league we rode with open hatches and looked at them.
                1. 0
                  February 18 2020
                  the review is only on cameras ... you are not mistaken, it is much better than staring at triplex
                  1. 0
                    February 18 2020
                    B3 needs a panorama in series and everything will work out, then a normal tank
                    1. 0
                      February 18 2020
                      B3 needs a panorama in series ... in B3 screens are installed regularly even with a driver, and with a rearview camera, my first-born child is now a driver, a couple of months ago the battalion received a troika instead of an insect. says heaven and earth compared to a bug
                      1. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        This is what the linear parts need to be filled with. Now ammunition breakthrough to bring to the level and quite a decent tank. I’m silent about reliability, ease of maintenance and cost of operation.
                      2. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        Now bring the penetration to the level of ammunition ... but what is wrong with the ammunition ??? judging by the KUV type Invar T-72 is generally out of competition, and even so when talking with the tankers when asked about the ammunition, everyone as one says that it is enough to fill the "carousel" only with UR (for pinpoint attacks) and OF-36, especially since KUV Invar has a high-explosive version of the UR, and what is characteristic is a shot of UR tank KUV is not much more expensive than a "crowbar" or cumulative. and a bunch of pluses. The UR barrel does not "pull", no adjustments are needed, there are practically no ballistic calculations, soot and dust, so the whole planet is ahead.
                        quite a decent tank. ..... what a decent one, and most importantly there is no loader, or rather its side physiological features such as diarrhea and involuntary urination, as is known in a high psychological situation this happens
                      3. 0
                        February 18 2020
                        Plus physical fatigue, main + AZ
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. +8
    February 9 2020
    Information periodically appeared about problems with this engine and difficulties with its production, but this was presented as small solvable problems. But it turned out that these problems are of a fundamental nature.

    Still not fundamental!
    Engine building is one of the sensitive indicators of the state of industry and applied science (and their ability to symbiosis).
    If in the part of science and design thought not only the previous experience is preserved, but new developments appear, and a change is already being formed for veterans, then with industry it is all the more sad.
    Just so, did the democrats begin its destruction with machine tool industry? Succeeded, with ... ki!
    And with a file and a chisel, even with seven spans in the forehead, you will not go far.
    To make an efficient and reliable engine you need a high-precision machine. To create it, you need a no less accurate machine. To work on it you need a highly qualified specialist. To prepare it, you need a technical school. For the college to function properly, it needs a training and production base run by experienced and skilled teachers and production workers. For mass training of specialists there must be demand, that is, developed production. To create which ...
    We will listen to this fairy tale “about the white bull” until the tasks of restoration and development (including staffing) of critical production facilities become priorities for the state.
    1. +3
      February 9 2020
      The file is the foundation of production. Technique - the engine in particular, needs to be made easy to manufacture and operate. To develop equipment (T-14, SU-57, etc.), initially understanding on what machines it will be made and repaired. How to make engines faster and better? - send the director of the engine building plant or "the owner of the plant bully "to Nizhnekolymsk in an ordinary communal apartment ... until the engine is made, tested, put into service and put into production.
  15. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        February 9 2020
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        Quote: Inspector
        journalist Rogozin is one of the few patriots in power.

        journalist Rogozin, worthless ... well, yes I will not express obscenities. The only thing he can do except eat, sleep, and multiply, is tryndet about nothing. All his promises, in fact ... What did he star a year ago about 45 launches in 23019? Voooot. Under Stalin, he would have long been a pro lumberjack. And this is the maximum to which it can be allowed.

        What was it? Really about the tank Armata?
        Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        eat, sleep, and multiply

        By the way, he writes himself, well, very beloved, with a CAPITAL letter, and others with a lowercase ...
        1. +6
          February 9 2020
          Quote: Terenin
          What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

          Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
          We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
          Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.
          Quote: Terenin
          Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

          I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
          Dixi.
          1. +2
            February 9 2020
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            Quote: Terenin
            What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

            Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
            We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
            Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.
            Quote: Terenin
            Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

            I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
            Dixi.

            are you okay??? what kind of words do you give out ??? wassat
            1. +5
              February 9 2020
              Quote: Nikolai Grek
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              Quote: Terenin
              What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

              Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
              We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
              Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.
              Quote: Terenin
              Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

              I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
              Dixi.

              are you okay??? what kind of words do you give out ??? wassat

              And she
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              the country is stupidly doomed
              and she bounced joyfully into NATO where
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              The population of NATO countries is under the yard.
              to help them
              eat, sleep, and multiply,
              because
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              not raised in a pigsty
              1. +7
                February 9 2020
                not raised in a pigsty

                not a bad place, by the way, a lot of decent people came out of there !! lol Gena! hi
                1. +5
                  February 9 2020
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  not raised in a pigsty

                  not a bad place, by the way, a lot of decent people came out of there !! lol Gena! hi

                  hi
                  This LaNasha ... is so educated that she doesn’t know that they don’t raise in a pigsty but ... they grow and fatten ... well, as in her beloved EU
              2. +2
                February 9 2020
                Quote: Terenin
                Quote: Nikolai Grek
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                Quote: Terenin
                What was it? Really about the tank Armata?

                Armata is a direct consequence of the social and economic policies of the government. Of such a roguin consisting ..
                We don't need a T-90. No modification. The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And it falls every year. Population of NATO countries - under a yard. And only last year it grew by 5 million. The ratio is 1 to 7. The country is stupidly doomed to "the most modern technology, which is not inferior to Western standards," and Rogozin and others like them can only lie. But don't work.
                Oh yes. And in the neighborhood is also China. The ratio with which is almost 1 to 10. Already caught up with us on most points. And not once a friend to us. Take an interest in how Russian-Chinese relations are presented at the official level.
                Quote: Terenin
                Gutted everything in a heap and hobbled

                I don’t have any habits similar to yours. Unlike some, she was not raised in a pigsty.
                Dixi.

                are you okay??? what kind of words do you give out ??? wassat

                And she
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                the country is stupidly doomed
                and she bounced joyfully into NATO where
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                The population of NATO countries is under the yard.
                to help them
                eat, sleep, and multiply,
                because
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                not raised in a pigsty

                do not pay attention ... see aggravation !!! wink request
                1. +4
                  February 10 2020
                  aggravation !!
                  Kolyun, not a blunt ??? lol
                  1. +3
                    February 10 2020
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    aggravation !!
                    Kolyun, not a blunt ??? lol

                    lol it does not interfere!! however, one may be a consequence of the other !! wassat
          2. 0
            February 10 2020
            We do not need the T-90. In no modification .......... do you need the liberals, but we need
            . The population of Russia is slightly more than 145 ml. And every year it falls ...... start with yourself, instead of using the technical site to state your nonsense, it’s better to increase the demography
            The population of NATO countries is under the yard. ... the population of NATO countries is aging rapidly, and this tendency is slowed down by the aliens of the shoog and the east who, under such conditions, began to breed very intensively, which cannot be said about the natives
            the country is stupidly doomed ..... it remains only to find out what is doomed to?
    2. +2
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Inspector
      journalist Rogozin is one of the few patriots in power. And the duet of Borisov and the Krivoruchko from the synagogue impudently works for the mossad.

      This is a joke most likely. He is not a professional in any of the areas of his last job. This is even worse than working for Mossad.
  16. 0
    February 9 2020
    I’m an engine from t 90, is there anyway? I'm just not a techie ... maybe specialists will say
    1. 0
      February 9 2020
      Andrei VOV - it seems like they tried to put it does not pull! In a straight line, no matter where else it went, but at the shooting range it is possible to crawl no higher than second gear - there isn’t enough power!
    2. +1
      February 9 2020
      Easy ! And it will be like a check with the first motor. A view of ten slanting woods and not rides
  17. +1
    February 9 2020
    On the tanks shown at the parade in 2015. there were A-85-3A engines with a capacity of 1500hp. But then they decided to install the Chaika. Now they decided to release a small batch with the A-85-3A engine. Further, they plan to install a YaMZ-880 diesel engine with a capacity of 1800hp.
  18. +2
    February 9 2020
    Quote: Operator
    circular optoelectronic review and helmet-mounted screens of augmented reality.

    In general, this should be an indispensable attribute of the entire BTT, both newly created and modernized.
  19. -1
    February 9 2020
    Now everything is gone.
    A diesel engine is still needed new. You can’t last long on Soviet groundwork
  20. 0
    February 9 2020
    I did not understand anything from the article. What euphoria and bluff does the author claim? Who had it, the author? There are always problems when developing the latest technology, so what? They are simply overcome, especially since there is no need for the soonest adoption of the "Armata" into service now, however, like the Su-57. Let the designers calmly deal with the problems, but better equipment will enter service.
    1. +4
      February 9 2020
      Quote: turbris
      Let designers calmly deal with problems.

      Plus, also train those who will use and operate it. Create infrastructure for repair and maintenance. Again, the concept of application ... A new technique should be applied differently. All this takes time and reflection ...
    2. +1
      February 10 2020
      Let them sort it out, no one is against it, just don’t have to figure it out yet that they say it has no analogues, a miracle.
      And then it's funny then on the mekanie about "it takes time, and so on." listen.
      That's how the designers will figure it out, then start boasting.
      That’s the whole problem ..
      1. 0
        February 14 2020
        Well, these are mainly complaints about journalists - they always run ahead of the locomotive, they have everything "the best in the world", "unparalleled", etc.
  21. +1
    February 9 2020
    Quote: Operator
    crew of two

    Your proposal is even more radical than that of the creators of Almaty!
    1. -3
      February 10 2020
      The crew is not needed at all. He must follow the technical and maintain the equipment. The battle should be the tanks of robots.
      And here - super-interesting!
      Such a robot does not need:
      - low silhouette;
      - protivosnaryadny armor;
      - smoothbore gun with super-ballistics;
      - outstanding speed and dynamic performance;
      - ensuring ergonomics of the crew.
      He needs:
      - powerful artificial intelligence and integration into the battlefield BIOS;
      - gun-howitzer 152 mm with a large elevation angle;
      - circular shelling from machine guns;
      - protection against RPGs and ATGM;
      - exceptional cross-country ability;
      - the ability to move in city blockages due to barrage systems;
      - the possibility of mass production for the complete rearmament of the ground forces.
      Available today there are all the necessary components to create such a machine. At the first stage, you can use the existing chassis for testing systems.
      1. Alf
        0
        February 10 2020
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        Available today there are all the necessary components to create such a machine.

        This is covered ...
        1. -1
          February 11 2020
          Interestingly, and which are not?
          There is everything separately, it is necessary to develop TTT, then TK, then link all developments into a single product, get the first pancake (experimental series), salt and pepper and - on the conveyor. The main thing is to rivet them like T-34-85 against the "Royal Tigers".
      2. 0
        February 10 2020
        This has long been created. It is called a "tank-missile installation". It was made back in 1996 as part of UFO. Cool igruha was! And I also remembered the Ratte project, another Hitler's wunderwaffe.
        But seriously, through which communication channels will you manage this device in the conditions of city blockages? How much will this miracle weigh, taking into account armor, barrage systems, the possibility of shooting in all directions. Do all bridges withstand this device?
        1. -2
          February 11 2020
          The mass is at the MBT level (I wrote: "projectile armor is not needed"), the armament is the same as that of the Akatsiya + 3 large-caliber machine guns in retractable installations, the engine is a clone B-2 not fancy, it is controlled autonomously (artificial intelligence) and network-centrically (drones, battlefield avacs, etc.). Communication (retractable devices) - at the level of setting the task: the enemy is there and there to bypass and destroy, take a position and keep a mobile defense. And if the robot "Vanya" is knocked out, "Sanya" will insure, and "Manya" and "Tanya" will provide anti-tank and anti-aircraft defense.
          The main thing is that there is no crew and it’s not scary to die, but due to simplicity it is possible to rivet in thousands a year.
  22. 0
    February 9 2020
    UNABILIZED tower - also not one of the last problems in the layout of the tank. In case of failure of the tank’s power supply system or damage to the transmission of control signals from the crew from the tank’s hull to the turret, the tank becomes completely dysfunctional-there are no duplicate fire systems in the tank. So, what is next???
    The tank should provide high reliability in battle with possible system failures, so the problem is not only in the engine.
    It remains to use the Soviet legacy. By the way, and "Armata" is no exception - the implementation of the network-centric tank, the concept of which was developed and put into the "Boxer" tank, was continued. With the collapse of the USSR, the project "stalled". .Maybe it will work out now. Hopefully.
    1. +7
      February 9 2020
      Well, any modern tank, if electricity runs out, turns into a T-34. And it has at least some chances against another modern tank, in which the electricity also ended.

      Armata will be able to exit the battle just like the T-90 / Abrams, whose wiring closes and everything goes out. Nobody will fight on such a tank.
    2. 0
      February 10 2020
      And what is in Armata network-centric, except for a beautiful name?
  23. +14
    February 9 2020
    What happens to the Armata tank
    What is happening to him? In my opinion everything is fine - takes part in parades, in photo sessions - similarly. lol So - everyone is happy! wassat
  24. 0
    February 9 2020
    Quote: Dart2027
    Quote: Dead Day
    FSE in the series ... and 57e and t-14-15

    Su-57 is already in the series.

    What motors? What avionics? Why is it needed in the series, if it is no different from the Su-35, except for its price?
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. +9
    February 9 2020
    The main reason for the incomprehensible situation with the tank: it is the habit of shouting loudly and praising ahead of time, and then mooing about moving the deadlines right to right to right ...
    Boasting in advance and hitting yourself in the chest with a heel is not worth it and there will be no "incomprehensible situation" ...
    And then I'm ready!
    Ready when it is ready!
    1. 0
      February 10 2020
      Boasting in advance and hitting yourself in the chest with a heel is not worth it and there will be no "incomprehensible situation"

      Quite right. "Don't say hop until you jump over."
  27. 0
    February 9 2020
    Tell the amateur - why can’t you put engines from T 90 on Armata? Is Armata heavier?
    1. Alf
      +4
      February 9 2020
      Quote: jekasimf
      Is Armata harder?

      T-90 46,5 tons.
      Armata 55 tons.
      There is still a "slight" difference.
      1. +3
        February 10 2020
        Basil hi Armata is a concept, a platform for BTT. Without an engine, she is a "Deadborn Child", so the question is why, apart from a diesel engine, a turbine is not considered for her? It seems logical to be able to work out this option and check how it will behave? T-80s are being modernized, updated for service in the North, but they are not eternal. Why isn't such an option included in the concept right away?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. -1
            February 10 2020
            And it’s not fate to think - where is the GTE of the 1976 model and where is the GTE of the 2020 model?
            1. 0
              February 10 2020
              In principle, in addition to raising the temperature of the gases, nothing has changed in the design; is it not fate to read about gas turbine engines?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. 0
                  February 10 2020
                  Sintering of dust on the blades, high fuel consumption, a single-stage air filter, overloading of the turbine engine with associated systems for stable operation of the turbine, the wild high cost of the power plant, complicated repairs, high operating costs .. do you want to add? By the way, enlighten how they are going to reduce fuel consumption so much.
                  1. +1
                    February 10 2020
                    The molecular filter solves all issues with dust.

                    What kind of cost are you talking about when a turboshaft gas turbine with a capacity of 1500 hp are massively installed on helicopters worth 10 million dollars or less (like the Abrams tank)?

                    40 atmospheres + 2000 degrees = fuel combustion conditions in a diesel engine.
                    1. 0
                      February 10 2020
                      in aviation, their nuances of operation, the comparison is incorrect. and ask how much the whole t80 costs and the power plant separately, not a TURBINE, but the whole complex + do not forget to count the auxiliary engine at the cost of b46.
                    2. 0
                      February 10 2020
                      I apologize was wrong .. The auxiliary power unit GTA-18 costs 90 times the cost of the main diesel engine of the T-2,5 tank
                      1. +4
                        February 10 2020
                        Of course not right. In the 90s, during the fanning power outages, I thought the "kirdyk" came and would not refuel. But no, the last gas station is equipped with GTA-18 and is independent from the mains. Diesel - at least fill up, tarhtite slowly and supplies the "thirsty" with fuel.
                        Needless to say, an 18-horsepower engine costs 2,5 times tank diesel. Goleted lies. Who is the fake for?
                    3. -2
                      February 10 2020
                      Molecular filter ??? who is this ... is it directly developed and in production? or as with t14. The cost of the T-80U and T-72B in the late 1980s. amounted to 824 thousand rubles, respectively. and 280 thousand rubles. do not you think that almost three tanks are better than one, with a slight increase in frontal projection protection and equal armament. the dignity of a limited flight in a straight line at 80 km \ h frankly I do not cause delight
                2. 0
                  February 10 2020
                  What does the pressure +40? In modern tank diesels, the fuel injection pressure can reach up to 200 atmospheres. I finally do not understand why these +40
                  1. 0
                    February 10 2020
                    The pressure in the diesel cylinder at the moment of the flash is <40 atmospheres (the injection pressure in the fuel injector of the GTE and diesel reaches 950 atmospheres).
        2. Alf
          0
          February 10 2020
          Quote: Svarog51
          T-80 is being modernized, updated for service in the North, but they are not eternal.

          The counter-question is whether there is a gas turbine engine for Almaty? 1250 mares are clearly few. And to create a completely new gas turbine engine with the possibility of forcing is not the easiest and fastest task, especially in modern Russia.
          1. +2
            February 10 2020
            That is why I asked that work was being done on the diesel engine. But the turbine? Maybe the result would be different? The Americans have 1500 mares, their Abrams drag, ours are easier. Well, I would not sweep the turbine as an engine for the BTT. It’s too early to put a cross, but work in this direction will not be superfluous. Yes, she’s expensive, yes, she’s voracious - but the prospects? Why do not evaluate this direction?
            1. Alf
              +1
              February 10 2020
              Quote: Svarog51
              Well, I would not sweep the turbine as an engine for the BTT.

              My personal opinion is that GTE for tanks is a very promising thing.
              Quote: Svarog51
              but work in this direction will not be superfluous.

              Is there any development money? And who will develop and, especially, build these engines?
              All around are managers ...
              1. +3
                February 10 2020
                Omsk, T-80 was made there and modernized. I won’t lie to the turbine, I don’t know where it was developed and modernized. But did they develop and modernize? It is logical to have an alternative engine. I do not understand why diesel will not be mastered in any way with modern calculation technologies and automated systems. Turbines are miscalculated in the same way, and then - the organization of production. Moreover, the turbine is less costly, the aircraft are fully developed. They’ll definitely do for the tank.
                1. Alf
                  +2
                  February 10 2020
                  Quote: Svarog51
                  I do not understand why diesel will not be mastered in any way with modern calculation technologies and automated systems.

                  Yes, for the same reason that there is no one to count or do. Those who could, or the elderly are retired or already "far away", and the young either do not go or come such that it would be better not to come at all. It's just that in those glorious times, those who said they worked "at a factory where tanks are made" were told-O-O-O!, And now they say-What, they didn't take it anywhere else?
                  1. +5
                    February 10 2020
                    It's sad to hear everything is broken. All that is missing is a strong-willed decision. And material support of competent specialists.
                    "Wow, how angry I am, oh, how angry I am!" (from)
    2. -2
      February 10 2020
      Quote: jekasimf
      Is Armata harder?

      almost 10 tons
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. Kaw
    +8
    February 9 2020
    In my opinion, everything is obvious. Access to imported components has ceased, but no analogue has been found on Ali-express. What about the engine. The engine from the T-80U on this tank would fit perfectly IMHO
    1. Alf
      0
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Kaw
      The engine from the T-80U on this tank would fit perfectly IMHO

      Especially if it were half as powerful.
  30. +3
    February 9 2020
    so much noise around new technological advances in civil and military engineering ... like a frozen pregnancy
  31. 0
    February 9 2020
    I didn’t understand something! What is the order for the Almaty engine in 2014 if it was already in 2011 (https://topwar.ru/7491-dvigatel-blizhayshego-buduschego.html)?
    First of all, the problem is the overall coordination of the SLA and the absence or lack of knowledge of the 152mm gun. For 125 mm even the modernized one does not give cardinal advantages over existing tanks.
    P.S. For the author a specialist! A new factory was being built for a boxer in Kharkov in the late 80s and everything there was already linked to him. If it weren’t for the collapse of the Union in 93-94, Chuguev would have received a kit for passing through the military tests.
  32. +6
    February 9 2020
    Such articles cannot be printed on VO; they completely demoralize readers. What is it that happens, have we been hanging noodles for five years? And if with hypersound from the same opera?
    1. +6
      February 9 2020
      "And if with hypersound from the same opera?" ////
      ----
      A bit better. But not much.
    2. Alf
      +10
      February 9 2020
      Quote: Romka
      What is it that happens, have we been hanging noodles for five years?

      We are hanging noodles from the 91st and nothing, there are still believers.
  33. +5
    February 9 2020
    Wait and see. As Comrade Stalin said. "Let the designers make a tank in metal, and then we will decide which is better." Is there really no engine for the Armata, except for an experimental development. The question is the engine needs 1500hp. for 55 tons or more. This is the proportion of foreign MBTs. I think we have similar engines. And those who spent the people's money, and then say, give it more leads to certain thoughts, as with a certain cosmodrome. Until the defense industry, or better yet, Russia, is not kicked out of "effective managers" for the development of banknotes, but absolutely unsuitable for the business and the country, so it will be. And if we had one Armata.
    1. Alf
      +9
      February 9 2020
      Quote: tank64rus
      Until the defense industry, or better from Russia, will not be thrown out of "effective managers" for the development of banknotes, but absolutely unsuitable for the business and the country, so everything will be.

      This can only be done with this ship.
      1. +7
        February 10 2020
        Instead of a bow gun - a tower from Armata and test. good
    2. +1
      February 10 2020
      Is there really no engine on Armata, except for experimental development.

      Do not be surprised that it is. Or maybe they supplied some module-block-valve for the engine from Kharkov, and now the bench has covered itself?
  34. +9
    February 9 2020
    You have to pay for everything, the euphoria in 2014 with the creation of a new tank turned out to be in many ways a bluff, launched, in my opinion, by Dmitry Rogozin.
    After Rogozin IL-112 was about to launch into the air, and a month before the launch, it turned out that the engines were not ready for it - how can it be taken seriously wassat
  35. +5
    February 9 2020
    What did I say? An ordinary PR tank that has worked out a belligerent public mood against the backdrop of the annexation of the Crimea and the outbreak of war in the east. Like the Su-57. The models in their role are ideal: they hold society together by militarism and rally around the leader. Their perspectives and innovativeness are excellent excuses for covering up the failure of counter-sanctions (sanctions were not imposed against the country, only against specific petrified mugs, while counter-sanctions were a classic frostbite to spite grandmother). So, the whole collapse of welfare is easy to explain with this tale - all the money was spent on these new samples.
  36. -3
    February 9 2020
    There is an engine for Armata, otherwise there would be no tests, but they pass and pass normally .. the point is that there is an EMNIP engine for 1 horses, but they wanted to force it up to 200 mares .. but it didn’t work out .. + he eats more calculated indicators .. here and finally decided to make a new engine, but for now they will put 1
    1. 0
      February 9 2020
      Boris Chernikov - even according to almost official information, the a-engine does not give the necessary traction, or it does not keep its speed well, it is difficult to repair and operate, and the point is expensive. The calculations were to purchase it in large quantities, and refinement to the mind, but it was more difficult to see the problems than they thought, and there is simply no solution that suits both the military and the manufacturers!
    2. Lad
      +2
      February 9 2020
      Then it’s still possible to deliver the engine from a Muscovite. It’s all the same the armored tank. True, there are problems not only with the engine, but that's okay.
  37. -9
    February 9 2020
    Tired of these articles in the spirit of .......... "Russia is lost" from the repertoire of "the writer Vitia" ............... business needs to be done, not muddy the water .. ... you know how to do better ......... go and do, but if not-
    keep quiet ....
    1. 0
      February 10 2020
      Should be done by specialists who for this and studied
  38. -3
    February 9 2020
    Lenta.RU .... well, well ... when this, so to speak, publication published a more or less truthful information based on reality ??? ... it's all the same as in the proverb: - ​​the grandmother said for two ....) wassat
    1. +5
      February 10 2020
      Well, that is, the tank has been in the army for a long time, the factories are making more and more in three shifts, but is it "vyfsevret" on Lenta? There are problems, and very big ones. What difference does it make where they wrote about them.
      1. -1
        February 10 2020
        Fewer words - more action ... the trouble is that we all have "writers" ... and they are too smart ... and they themselves sort out leaky troughs on the outskirts of Moscow for a thousand bucks ... The question arises why these clever people do not go to production ... but write and discuss everything ... spending time re-reading a lot of literature that is practically not used in their everyday life ............ .. ???? And the answer is simple .......... nowadays the time is ... everyone and everyone knows how to need and how to do it right ... but they do nothing ... but they just want to have and have a lot and effortlessly ...
  39. +5
    February 9 2020
    Nothing terrible happened. Failures with the Armata tank, SU-57 aircraft, Vostochny spaceport, with the construction of destroyers and aircraft carriers, these are all stages of a long journey. We have already risen from our knees and now we need new budgetary investments for the development of the next generations of weapons, taking into account the accumulated experience and previous mistakes. The main thing is to select new managers to perform new ambitious tasks ..
    1. +4
      February 10 2020
      The main thing is to choose new managers to perform new ambitious tasks.

      There are no other managers for you.
  40. +3
    February 9 2020
    People like Rogozin at a cannon shot should not be allowed into a serious industrial sector, all the more responsible for the country's defense. it did a lot of business there, then for some reason it was transferred to the space industry, where a complete mess is now being observed.
  41. +3
    February 9 2020
    By the way, for some reason it always seemed that Armata was something between Rumata Estorsky and Arata Beautiful / Humpbacked. Even something like baseless hopes inspired me ...
  42. 0
    February 10 2020
    I just don’t understand how the R&D gull is connected with the armature. Nyokr seagull:
    "Development of basic models of the model range high-speed V-shaped diesel engines for special purposes in the power range from 750 to 1500 kW, promising models of automotive vehicles and tracked vehicles of medium and heavy weight categories, special wheeled vehicles and transport and technological means "(code" Chaika ")
    On armature stands X-shaped the engine, which has nothing to do with the R&D gull. By the time of the start of R&D (June 14), the armata had already gone.
  43. +1
    February 10 2020
    We can already be ....
  44. +3
    February 10 2020
    how nice it was to get confirmation from this article that I’ve been writing for several years and for which I have been minus .. sooner or later the truth comes to the surface ... wipe the patriots !!!
  45. +5
    February 10 2020
    A pre-loudly propagated thing is a failure in any field. I remember * Odessa motor ship * ..
  46. +2
    February 10 2020
    Armata is a thing of the past for Putriotogandy ... Seichvs euphoria among haters is caused by Poseidons and superlight rockets. A reinforcement material is worked out.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. ric
    +3
    February 10 2020
    In this country, only Comrade Beria can restore order. Then there will be organization and testing, and saboteurs, thieves, muddlers will be found in the shortest possible time, and they will also be punished to the fullest extent.
  49. -1
    February 10 2020
    Yes, with armature, it would be better on the t90th to feed the automatic loading loader, and the t-72 put a new tower ...
  50. +1
    February 10 2020
    (c) How euphoria inflated with the creation of the Armata tank (c)
    Euphoria is the main weapon used by the bourgeois to fight their own people and are going to "repel" external aggression.
  51. +3
    February 10 2020
    In "Armata" it costs 12N360, if anything. Citing foreign garbage dumps as a source is an outright mess. Some analysts from The Diplomat allegedly know about the problems of the tank. Yes Yes. The same stupid people in the foreign press write over and over again about the “lack of composites.” Either for ICBMs, then for Avangard, or for MS-21. And nothing, our turbopatriots are eating. KG/AM
  52. -3
    February 10 2020
    yesss, I read it, and here’s the summary.....for patriots it’s a balm for the soul - the Armata project is successful, it’s undergoing operational processes, with the method of testing different power plants (this happened with both the T-72 and the T-64. What’s wrong with them? they didn’t sculpt or stick in), that before the mass entry into the troops. while there is no need for this, the currently available fully combat-ready T-72B3 and T-90 in the amount of 4000 units are more than enough, against the background of their foreign “colleagues” burning in the deserts they look excellent, and Armata will gradually join in when there is an abundance of logistics and training centers, at the moment this is not the case. but as they wear out it will be 72 and 90, so everything will be a bunch
    - with regards to the category of "everyone" - there is also a balm, they will not install a 152 mm gun on the Armata, there is no need for this because it is not expedient, especially since there is no and will not be a tank KUV with a 152 mm UR, and there will not be equipment with 152 mm type guns Msta and the Coalition are quite enough, plus another whole numerous “flower bouquet”. so if this category of the forum is sharply sensitive to the Armata topic, then calm down, they won’t “cut” finances for the 152mm Armata
    well, in a nutshell it’s something like this
  53. +5
    February 10 2020
    What happens to the Armata tank
    But what can happen when the platform is not a base developed by industry, well-proven in the army, technologically advanced in production and relatively cheap, but a pre-designated one, moreover, on a crude, expensive and complex base? As V.V. noted. Putin, by 2015 they spent 64 billion rubles on R&D of this “platform” alone, plus they riveted it for show at the parade for the anniversary of the victory, they spent... By the way, to fine-tune the almost finished T-95 (object 195) at one time they spared 700 million, 400 million in order to make the third car, and 300 million for State tests. Object 195 had already moved 15 thousand kilometers, and the 2A83 cannon had already fired 287 rounds, the tank was almost ready. Alas, it turned out to be morally outdated for Serdyukov’s team and too difficult for conscripts. But “furniture sets”, ala “platform”, were then “in trend”, and attracted the idea of ​​a “platform” of light, medium and heavy (“Armata”), under the doctrine of a compact army, the predominance of anti-terrorist operations, friendship with NATO and the USA . As they say, from one mistake another was born.

    Yuri Mikhailovich, wouldn’t you know, you can’t add anything without subtracting anything, in a tank it’s all interconnected, this is the eternal “Trishkin caftan”. Object 195 was born of the need to install a 152 mm gun on a tank, an uninhabited turret, an armored capsule, everything became a consequence of this, without a 152 mm gun, these are already disadvantages, not advantages of the design, and with a 125 mm gun there are no special advantages of the T-14 over that same T-90, no matter how some jingoistic patriots jump out of their pants here in the frenzy of their optimism. Cramming conflicting requirements into a tank and a heavy infantry fighting vehicle on a single “platform”, a sort of initial push-pull, is also a difficult task. In addition, the general collapse of education and science, the destruction and liquidation of many design bureaus, stands, test sites, and pilot plants is also not a mosquito bite for the defense capability of the country and its military-industrial complex. Here, buy and sell, they snap their fingers with the smart air of “effective managers”, and those in power puff out their cheeks, with their “miracle weapons” toys, the further, the more fantastic, in their Western-dependent capitalism. In the figure, T-14 with a 125 mm gun and object 195 (T-95), with a 152 mm gun.
    To this I will only add the words of Colonel General Sergei Mayev.
    And I said: “Yes, it is expensive and complex, but now you will spend not 700 million rubles, but much more, simplify the characteristics and make a car. Which will be a lower class.” That’s what I said: “You will do...ka (kill-people).”

    1. +1
      February 10 2020
      P.S. The eternal question, what to do (on the topic of what happens to the tank)? We need to stop moving the “platform” and deal directly with the super tank, the reinforcement tank, returning the 152 mm caliber. It was the 152 mm gun that made it possible to reliably hit all existing and future enemy tanks with the first shot, even from a distance inaccessible to return gunfire. For this reason, everything was started on the topic “Improvement-88” - the creation of a super tank. No boosting of the 125 mm gun, which has already virtually exhausted its potential, will give the T-14 a fundamental advantage (while maintaining the 125 mm gun) over the modernized T-90. Also, one of the possible directions for the MBT and platform is not an enlargement of the caliber, but, on the contrary, the transition of the tank’s artillery to an automatic 57 mm cannon, where the main caliber will already be powerful anti-tank guns, included in the kit.
      The T-72/T-80/T-90 base is also suitable for this.
  54. +8
    February 10 2020
    the ostentatious rush to announce the creation of this tank brought him more harm than good.
    Haste has nothing to do with it. Everything happened as always. There are no more engineers at the factories. Engineers as a class have not integrated into the market. The reinforcement was created as usual - by manual sawing and the use of third-party units. I am absolutely sure that the current “factory teams” did not develop anything, but used some old developments.
    But of course, they cannot convert them in a new time, for new equipment and materials. Of course, it was promised that the factories would cope with all this. The factories won’t even promise to open up financing for them, but they still have to bring another bribe to Moscow...
    There is no one to do NEW things. There are no miracles. For thirty years no one needed engineers. Where will they get them from now? An engineer must be trained for at least 10 years, 6 in college, and at least 4-5 in production. At the same time, engineers must be diligently trained in production. We NO LONGER have engineers.
    And in 10 years they will no longer exist. There is no one to train them, and besides, higher school is now structured in such a way that people graduate with diplomas who are even less fit for work than before they entered. Scientific and industrial Power? Everything is over. Forget it.
    1. +1
      8 May 2020
      I specially registered on the site because your words reflect my vision of the situation.
      I graduated from MSTU. N. E. Bauman last year. In this regard, I can simply state a catastrophically low level of training. Today teaching is not a prestigious profession. Plus management who thinks only about their own pockets. Plus salaries and working conditions. They are at such a level that all the graduates I know either went to work as programmers, or to banks, or went to continue their education in the EU (they still take Baumans to study there for free).
      Engineers are truly a caste of untouchable beggars who must sacrifice their well-being and be restricted from traveling while officials are high on coke in Miami. I'm not talking about the bureaucracy and the state of most of the buildings in which you have to work.
      The elite have enough joint stock companies to protect their oil fields, they are not interested in the rest.
      I myself am personally planning a quick move from the Russian Federation, because honest people are not needed here.
  55. +4
    February 10 2020
    This has never happened before and now it happened again. And how well it all started - a super tank, everyone happily began to cut the budget for various R&D and R&D, we’ll cut it down, and then in 3 years we’ll come up with something, either we’ll plug in the old 195, or we’ll finish it off with a file, but no luck (the old one won’t fit, but the new one there are not enough brains to bring it to mind. Only ceremonial low-power engines remain (. And the money has already been spent - it lies in a Swiss bank or in the Maldives
  56. 0
    February 10 2020
    Quote: FRoman1984
    Quote: Sergey 777
    Armata will sooner or later be brought back to normal. In 3-4 years. In the meantime, the main emphasis will be placed on the T-90m which looks very good against the background of Western competitors.

    So they wrote in the article that there is no engine, work on it is stopped, what kind of "bring to mind" are we talking about?
    The story is similar to the Su-57, the same unfinished project for 15 years, but in the case of an airplane, at least the light at the end of the tunnel is visible, the engines are tested, the radar is tested.
    With the collapse of the Union, alas, it seems that there is no longer any brains to implement such serious projects.

    So the engine from the Su-57 should be installed on the Armata
  57. -2
    February 10 2020
    Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
    the high mountains are not at all suitable for a tank gas turbine engine; with every 500 m of altitude the power drops

    Wander on laughing
  58. -2
    February 10 2020
    Reading a whole series of comments, you come to the conclusion that if we did not have “liberals,” they would have to be urgently created. Otherwise, who could we attribute our epic bungling and sloppiness to?
  59. +1
    February 10 2020
    Unfortunately, our desire to earn money from the state, regardless of the result, is so great that the main link in the economy that is developing is corruption. In American terms, this is lobbying. This is why all our projects are falling apart on many issues...And we stubbornly give oil and gas for pennies, to our own detriment, to our neighbors. I think that’s why there won’t be any results at all.. That’s how money and selfishness will defeat us
  60. -1
    February 10 2020
    Thank you to the author for trying to “open your eyes” to the T-14 problem..... but it just looks like another stuff from the Western press, I don’t think there is a need to pick up this nonsense.....
    1. -5
      February 10 2020
      Yes, one hundred percent. They are afraid of new Russian weapons, so they spread disinformation.
  61. -3
    February 10 2020
    The situation with the T-14 is quite normal, there are flaws in the design that need to be eliminated, production lines need to be adjusted, hence the delays, and this is much better than modifying it in the army or introducing restrictions on use.
    1. Alf
      0
      February 10 2020
      Quote: tso1973
      There are design flaws that need to be eliminated,

      Where is it best to identify deficiencies, if not in real operation?
  62. +1
    February 10 2020
    how scary he is in frontal projection

    Compared to it, the T-90 is simply beautiful
  63. 0
    February 10 2020
    Until the entire rotten leadership is replaced, nothing will change in the country
  64. -2
    February 10 2020
    Perhaps liberals or Russophobes are sowing panic about T14.
  65. -4
    February 10 2020
    The usual work to finalize the project is underway. But some of the “not our comrades” became very overexcited for some reason, the freshmen are especially different. Again they have a “cut” and “give a revolution!” You can, of course, rush on the pills and die on the third cow, but we are going slowly and consistently, because this is how producers (and inseminating bulls) are supposed to do it.
    1. -3
      February 10 2020
      Aren't you ashamed to admit this? Many would disdain to do this with a cow...
      1. -1
        February 11 2020
        Low-grade trolling and primitiveness are not interesting to me. You would be entertaining if you learned how to troll and stay with a positive rate. Come back for a retake next semester.
  66. +3
    February 10 2020
    Regarding Armata, there is only one question: “Where are the execution lists?”
  67. +2
    February 10 2020
    Quote: Alekseev
    Quote: figvam
    such nonsense in the article, then more questions to the author,

    In order.
    The X-shaped engine did not begin to be developed at all in 2014, it was tested on a tank and moreover, successful in the 80s
    What kind of Seagull is known only to the author and his sources.
    What is such a computer system for controlling the movement of a tank? laughing Maybe the ECM? So they try not to use common rail on military equipment, very tender. Yes, and if you put the ECM for her is not a problem.
    The author is far from this movement as a Decembrist from the people.
    Here for firing there is such a system, TBV, one of the important components of the OMS. The production of such devices is debugged and does not represent those. difficulties.
    Such articles have one purpose - to discredit the military-industrial complex, the army and the state. authorities of the Russian Federation.
    The fact that Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang are not immediately released in thousands of copies has one reason - the unwillingness of the country's leadership to get involved in a devastating arms race and the ability to solve the current tasks of Russian defense using what is already and quite efficiently: modernized BTT models. After all, America and comrades are not held back by tanks and armored personnel carriers
    And selling the latest designs for export is also not entirely correct. But it is necessary to bring and prepare production for them, not now, so tomorrow Armata and other equipment of a new generation will gradually be introduced.

    OK, have the new manuals arrived? Urapatriot...
  68. -5
    February 10 2020
    T-14 is still an experimental vehicle
    It is necessary, in the same way as on the BMP-3, on the T-14 to add to the 125 mm gun - an automatic 57 mm + Ainet system for remote detonation
    1. -2
      February 10 2020
      where are you going to put the 57mm?
      there is no room in the tower
      1. -1
        February 11 2020
        But if you turn on your brain, you won’t be able to push it in either?
  69. 0
    February 10 2020
    When I first saw the Armata in a photo, I told myself that this was bullshit, not a battle tank.
  70. -2
    February 10 2020
    tank alma ata pilarama am
    Su-57 is also a pillar
    The bottom line is just files, and the money is offshore
    1. Alf
      0
      February 10 2020
      Izya, at least learn to write correctly.
  71. +3
    February 10 2020
    At this rate, this sub-tank will soon be dragged in parades in front of Putin only in a team of horses, because... Soon these “ceremonial engines” will exhaust their service life.
    But I can imagine how much money was wasted on its “development” and attempts to “introduce” it into operation...

    In my opinion, the Putin era has the main slogan: the main thing is not the goal, but the path to it. Preferably long...
  72. -1
    February 10 2020
    Quote: SARANCHA1976
    Molecular filter??? Who is this... has he already been developed and in production?

    In my kitchen it purifies water (a polymer membrane perforated to the size of H2O water molecules). The membrane can be perforated to fit the size of oxygen molecules O2 and nitrogen N2 (which are larger in size).
  73. 0
    February 10 2020
    1 "...Last year some crazy idea was thrown in about the possibility of installing a turret from a T-90M tank on the Armata tank..."
    Who threw it in? agency "ABN", and you distribute?!
    2 "...if R&D for the mentioned Chaika tank engine was announced only in 2014, and the creation of the tank was announced already in 2015..."
    There is no point in repeating yourself, everything has already been chewed over to you in detail...
    3 "... in the 80s... was developed by the Chelyabinsk SKB Rotor, which is now developing TIUS for the Armata tank, and the Krasnogorsk Mechanical Plant developed...
    ... they failed the work on the Boxer tank... now they can’t give anything intelligible about these systems for the Armata tank. Haven’t they really learned how to work in thirty years..."

    Where did the “uncomrade” author get this information? Does the author want to teach them how to work?
    What prevented him from teaching Krasnogorsk while working in Kharkov?!
    A provocation in the style of Shpakovsky’s article...
  74. 0
    February 10 2020
    Quote: Xenofont
    The author put together all the liberal-yellow press husk and dumped it on our heads.
    I amused the local all-singers and stooped races: well done, the weekend was not in vain!

    Actually, the author is one of the leaders of the “Kharkov Spring”, served several years in prison, and, for a moment, is a professional tank builder (Malyshev plant). Although the tone is really different.
  75. +1
    February 10 2020
    What. They took a wide step. Maybe they will catch up with their promises. The people are not stupid. Not everyone goes to "Slaves"
  76. -3
    February 10 2020
    Has a new vandalism appeared among the authors at VO?
  77. -2
    February 11 2020
    Quote: Zusul
    Has a new vandalism appeared among the authors at VO?

    Has the new spirited one raised his head?
  78. +2
    February 11 2020
    The modeler crossed Armata with Boomerang. The result was a wheeled tank.



    author Mikhail Lebedev
  79. +3
    February 11 2020
    When cutting money, the main thing is to catch up with the fog. First they hyped at the Vostochny Cosmodrome, then Armata, now the Su 57 in the future Avangard, Poysedon, S600..... We can’t cut too much money and the main thing is that the people, with a heightened sense of patriotism, tighten their belts
    1. +1
      February 11 2020
      These investments can be repaid, as was the case with the T-90, which was almost immediately contracted with India. Su-30 is the same. Export is probably the only criterion now. Now this is worse; India has withdrawn from the Su-57 project. The migs also flew by. Nothing is heard from Armata. Maybe there will be new modifications that will still be sold.
  80. -3
    February 11 2020
    Quote: SARANCHA1976
    It is written in black and white that the development of the engine has failed (almost 400 lyamas have been allocated for this moment). There is no engine project. With the sighting system is also a problem, in the sense of it is not. What other information are you missing? Have you ever read an article?


    Who wrote this in black on this very white?!?!?!
    Who is this author?
    Where does he get his information from?
    I’ll tell you a secret, but don’t be offended: if even a fraction of reliable information had appeared on this resource, the resource would have been blocked sooooo quickly. And it would be trivial to look for the author. And they would have found it... Take my word for it... No anonymizer can save you. Sure sure...
    And vice versa: if the competent authorities admit this “reliable information”, then everything is ok, the whole caravan goes on its own course and way. Do you know analytics from the “reverse”? No? And you don't need to know this.
  81. -2
    February 11 2020
    Quote: g1washntwn
    The usual work to finalize the project is underway. But some of the “not our comrades” became very overexcited for some reason, the freshmen are especially different. Again they have a “cut” and “give a revolution!” You can, of course, rush on the pills and die on the third cow, but we are going slowly and consistently, because this is how producers (and inseminating bulls) are supposed to do it.


    +10 for 5 points!!!!!
    The latest and/or modern technology is constantly being updated. Normal practice. It often happens that the latest technology by the time it is launched into series and / or during the state. / field testing is already outdated.
    A classic example of this is the construction of warships. By the time it is launched, the ship is already outdated. Normal situation.
    Accordingly, it takes time to debug the entire production cycle/cooperation. And it is best to carry out this debugging, relatively speaking, “now” in order to have the potential for further modernization. It will be cheaper later!
    And... where is the Russian Federation in a hurry? In the Russian Federation “there was already a war tomorrow”?!?!?!? Examples of hurry - moooooooooor! The same equipment of the USSR or Nazi Germany encountered rushers... and what happened then?
  82. 0
    February 11 2020
    “Everyone understood that there were serious problems with the tank,” and further in the text it turns out that “lately we have been learning about problems with the Armata from publications in foreign publications.”
    To the author: the American publication “The Diplomat” certainly knows better what problems T-14 manufacturers have laughing
  83. -1
    February 11 2020
    Yes, of course, there is no engine)))) but in the current models the squirrels turn the wheel????)))
  84. 0
    February 11 2020
    Referring to lenta.ru is bad manners for an analytical publication (including topwar).
    negative
  85. +2
    February 12 2020
    Since when is information from the “yellow” publication “Lenta.ru” reliable, especially since the development of the T-14 tank is secret. So far, the following is happening with the T-14. The newest Russian tank T-14 on the Armata platform is entering the final stage of testing; no fundamental changes will be made to its design, an official representative of the developer company told RIA Novosti during the Defexpo India-2020 exhibition This equipment is from the Uralvagonzavod concern (part of Rostec). The Russian Ministry of Defense previously signed a contract for the purchase of 132 T-14 and T-15 combat vehicles on the Armata platform. The entire contract is expected to be completed by the end of 2021. On January 20, 2020, ChTZ wrote about the development of the engine -
    The material was called “ChTZ failed the task of developing an engine for the Armata tank.” However, the information contained in the publication turned out to be unreliable. ChTZ-Uraltrak LLC is currently operating as normal. The development of the engine for the Armata is carried out in accordance with the deadlines specified in the performance sheet. Design documentation has been developed. As part of the State Defense Order, samples were manufactured and sent to the main contractor for installation on the product and passing state tests.

    Roman Mazurenko. So maybe something is happening with Lenta.ru. I remember that the Bulava cannot fly and the S-350 cannot shoot.
  86. -1
    February 13 2020
    Yes, guys..., a young guy came to us from the electronic warfare troops... I, intoxicated by the zombie box, asked him with pride: well, are ours at the top?
    - There’s not a damn thing there, it’s just junk!

    Who are they going to fight with???

    Their children study in landoons, they have money in foreign Jewish banks!

    Maybe there is no money?

    please calm down
    1. -1
      February 13 2020
      If the Armata project is revised, reworked, in order to make it easier, for example, to move the “powder magazine” from the hull to the turret, in fact, the gun fires in a horizontal plane and stores ammunition in a vertical plane, this is not the most convenient for operating an automatic reloader in a tank , it’s easier if the shells lie horizontally at the back in the turret niche. ,Naturally, the tower will be longer and still remain uninhabited. then about half the length of the tank can be allocated for an armored capsule, and the rest is the engine compartment with fuel, and the tank will be much shorter and lighter without reducing armor protection. An extended armored capsule will make it possible to make the tank even a little narrower if the crew sits not in one row, but in two rows, and the lightweight tank will not need a new engine of increased power
  87. -2
    February 14 2020
    Stationary BLOWER with a cannon... This is Russia - ANALOGUE :)))
  88. 0
    February 14 2020
    Tank T 14 is not a bad tank that can compete with the Abrams
  89. 0
    February 16 2020
    The thing is new, complex, and expensive. These 16 tanks will reveal all the inevitable childhood diseases. They will be corrected, and in 4-5 years the tank will appear in the army. But even then, I highly doubt that there will be thousands of them in the troops.
  90. 0
    February 16 2020
    The photos above show a wheeled tank on a boomerang platform with an Armata turret. This base will make a good robot, without a crew. A small drone will fit in the back of the landing module to transport ammunition and other things.
  91. 0
    February 16 2020
    It was necessary to scare - they parroted)))) So beautiful)))
    1. -1
      February 16 2020
      The most correct layout of the tank would be to concentrate both the gun, the automatic reloader and ammunition in an uninhabited turret, and place under the turret a narrow, long armored capsule of approximately 3 m by 1 m of internal size, in which three tankers sit one behind the other. This method of placing the crew will allow increasing the thickness of the side armor of the capsule is up to 50 cm, and on top the capsule will be protected by an uninhabited tower. As a result, such an arrangement will make it possible to get by with six pairs of rollers, reduce the length and even width, reduce weight, and increase the security of the crew. , the downside will be the difficulty of leaving the tank in an emergency, but if you use an emergency turret release device, then the issue will be resolved. .
  92. 0
    February 18 2020
    Everything is fine with Almaty"
    At a meeting of the Ministry of Defense with the participation of Russian President Vladimir Putin, it was decided to begin a massive renewal of the tank fleet of the ground forces.
    The program for the production of new and modernization of old tanks is designed for the next five years, Vedomosti reports, citing a source close to the leadership of the military department.
    By 2027, the army will receive at least 900 new tanks, including 500 T-14 vehicles created on the Armata platform. State tests are planned for 2020, and if they are completed successfully, the tanks will go to the troops.
    https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/aktsii/putin-poruchil-uvelichit-proizvodstvo-tankov-1028906650
    Threat, whine, whine, put it aside!
    1. -1
      March 1 2020
      The minus should not have been given to me, but to the developers of the Armata, in which the armored capsule is installed across the hull, therefore, due to its large width, the side walls of the armored capsule turned out to be too thin and it is impossible to increase their thickness even a little, in principle, because the width of the tank is limited, this is an fatal drawback of this layout, the armored capsule should have been positioned not across the hull, but along it, that is, the crew should have been seated one after another in a “tandem”, then the thickness of the side armor of the capsule could be increased to the required value, but for this it would be necessary to remove the ammunition with the automatic loader from the hull into the turret, that is redesign the entire tank, and understanding of this is already beginning.
      1. -1
        March 1 2020
        The person cannot or does not want to give arguments, but he can and does want to give minuses,
  93. -1
    March 7 2020
    Yes, it’s all simple - previously the chief designer was at the head, and now he is an “effective manager”. It is these “effective managers” who produce such sad effects, in fact, in all sectors of the “national economy”....
  94. 0
    March 8 2020
    Armata is a module and a concept, but whether to do it or not will be decided en masse in high offices!
  95. 0
    April 23 2020
    I’m not an expert on tanks, but I assume that everything will be according to the following scenario: the T-14 will not be mass produced, but new solutions and technologies will be developed on it, which will then be transferred to the T-90, as a result of which the T-90 will gradually grow to the next generation; after that, it will be difficult to further modernize the T-90 and the entire set of filling and weapons will be shoved into the T-14 platform, and the T-72 will run out by then. In general, we are waiting, by 2050 we will see armatures in the country’s troops, not long left, only 5 terms of GDP)
  96. 0
    April 23 2020
    kapets. So the dills are jumping up to the ceiling with joy. And I stubbornly tried to prove to them that no Armata is a show-off show for visitors. Abidna, yes, it was not in vain that they were jumping up and down in joy when the Armata stalled at the parade rehearsal.

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