Do we have many air defense systems? Anti-aircraft artillery and MANPADS


Photo: mil.ru


At the end of January 2020, “Military Review” published a publication “Why do we need so many air defense systems?”, which briefly examined anti-aircraft artillery, anti-aircraft missile-gun and anti-aircraft missile systems available in the Ground Forces of the Russian Army and in the Aerospace Forces. In the comments, readers expressed a desire to learn more about the state of our air defense and the prospects for its development. In this series, we will examine in more detail anti-aircraft systems in the order in which they went in the above publication.

ZU-23



Some readers find the twin 23mm anti-aircraft artillery mount archaic, but despite this, it still holds a strong position in our armed forces and is practically irreplaceable in a number of tasks. Although the time has long passed when the towed ZU-23 was one of the main means of military air defense and at present the tasks of protecting troops from the air enemy are assigned to complexes with radar and optoelectronic detection means, but obsolete, it would seem, anti-aircraft guns are still in demand .

This is due to the fact that 23-mm anti-aircraft guns have a very large margin of safety and reliability, and in warehouses there are still many spare parts and barrels. In addition, the twin anti-aircraft gun combines high firepower with compactness and relatively low weight. In ZU-23 very successful and compact manual drives of vertical and horizontal aiming with a balancing mechanism of spring type are used, which allows you to transfer trunks to the opposite side in 3 seconds. A trained calculation can aim at a target in just 5-10 seconds. With a weight of about 950 kg, the installation can be mounted on various vehicles.

ZU-23 installations are easy to use, not subject to organized electronic interference and thermal traps. In addition to the fight against air targets, they can be successfully used against manpower and light armored vehicles of the enemy. In both cases, the ZAP-23 sight is used, the data into which are entered manually and, as a rule, are determined by eye. In this regard, the probability of hitting a target flying at a speed of 300 m / s does not exceed 0,02. In the past, various options for their modernization were proposed to increase the effectiveness of 23-mm anti-aircraft installations: the introduction of optoelectronic sights with a night channel and a laser range finder, as well as retrofitting of MANPADS missiles. But at the same time, the cost of both the plants themselves and their maintenance increased many times. For this reason, the upgraded options are not widespread.

The reader, inclined to analysis, may rightly ask: why then does our army need the relatively inefficient ZU-23 anti-aircraft mounts when the more modern Tungusks and Armor are in service?

The answer to this question lies in the versatility of "zushka" and the high flexibility of their application. Although there are practically no towed ZU-23s in the air defense units of the Russian Ground Forces, a significant number of installations are still in storage and can be quickly delivered to the troops. A number of Russian civilian higher education institutions in military departments still train specialists who can operate anti-aircraft guns, the graduation of which began almost 60 years ago.


However, it is not worth considering that the ZU-23 in the Russian army are only in warehouses. Last fall, the author observed a military convoy, which included several KamAZ trucks, similar to that shown in the photograph. I will not dwell on where it was and what kind of column it is, I am sure that knowledgeable readers will understand me. However, I can say that in the convoy, in addition to ZU-23, there were modern MANPADS. The calculations of anti-aircraft guns were in combat readiness at workplaces and were dressed in modern helmets and body armor. In addition to repelling air attacks, fast-firing 23-mm anti-aircraft guns are also capable of turning a sabotage group of an enemy into a bloody slap and are justifiably considered as an effective means of hitting ground targets in the delivery of goods that require special treatment.


In addition to covering transport columns carrying “special” products, the ZU-23 was mounted on tracked lightly armored MT-LB transporters, which was associated with a desire to increase the mobility of anti-aircraft installations. It is known that in a number of parts, due to the depletion of the resource of anti-aircraft self-propelled guns ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", they were temporarily replaced by 23-mm MT-LB systems, increasing the number of MANPADS in the anti-aircraft missile and artillery battery.

Do we have many air defense systems? Anti-aircraft artillery and MANPADS

During the fighting in Afghanistan and on the territory of the former USSR, 23 mm anti-aircraft mounts ZU-23 were installed on the BTR-D landing armored personnel carriers. A significant drawback of such improvised ZSU was the high vulnerability of the openly located calculation of the twin anti-aircraft mounts. In this regard, improvised armored shields were sometimes mounted on anti-aircraft installations.


The successful experience of the combat use of the BTR-D with the ZU-23 installed on it led to the creation of a factory version of the self-propelled anti-aircraft gun, which received the designation BMD-ZD "Rattle". On the ZSU modification, a calculation of two people is now protected by light anti-fragmentation armor. To increase the efficiency of fire by means of an air attack, optoelectronic equipment with a laser rangefinder and a television channel, a digital ballistic computer, an automatic target tracking system, a new collimator sight, electromechanical guidance drives were introduced into the composition of sighting equipment. This allows you to increase the likelihood of defeat and ensure the all-day and all-weather use of low-flying targets. The option to modernize sighting equipment, which did not take root in towed installations, was found to be in demand in anti-aircraft self-propelled guns landing, which can be dropped on a parachute platform.

Thus, talking about the archaism of the 23 mm anti-aircraft guns is premature. According to some reports, up to 300 ZU-23 units installed on various vehicles can be in active operation in Russia. Several dozen towed installations are available in military schools and training centers for personnel. A few hundred more were preserved at the bases of storage of equipment and weapons.

ZSU-23-4 «Shilka»



It is not clear why in the article “Why do we need so many air defense systems?” only the ZSU-23-4M4 “Shilka-M4” is mentioned, although in the air defense forces of the ground forces and anti-aircraft units of the marine corps there are not only modernized ZSU, but also thoroughly repaired self-propelled guns of early modifications. In some of them, during the repair, communication equipment was replaced, changes were made to the radio instrument complex and the state recognition system for air targets, aimed at increasing reliability and lowering the cost of operation. But at the same time, the main characteristics of the ZSU have not changed. It is clear that non-modernized self-propelled anti-aircraft guns, in the electronic units of which electric vacuum devices are still partially used, are obsolete and are much inferior to new and radically modernized military air defense systems.


Upgraded ZSU-23-4M4 "Shilka-M4"

During the upgrade, the ZSU-23-4M4 received a new radar fire control system on a solid-state elemental base with the possibility of installing the Sagittarius air defense system. The SLA update is accompanied by the replacement of the existing radar station with a newly created station of the same frequency range with an improved set of characteristics. As part of the Sagittarius air defense system, a Igla-type missile system is used.

According to information available in open sources, the Russian armed forces have about 200 ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" of all modifications. How many of them underwent modernization is not known. However, it is clear that it is impossible to repair and upgrade installations, most of which have already crossed the forty-year milestone. It is safe to say that in the coming years the number of Shiloks in the troops will greatly decrease.

MANPADS



Shooter with MANPADS "Strela-2M"

Now consider the available MANPADS. Until the mid-1980s, the main MANPADS of the Soviet army was Strela-2M, which was adopted in 1970. The production of this complex in the USSR was carried out at least until 1980, and it became very widespread. For example, in the 1980 states, there were 27 portable systems in the motorized rifle regiment. The division of anti-aircraft gunners armed with MANPADS was in the state of motorized rifle companies. Launchers and spare anti-aircraft missiles could be included in the BMP-1 warhead. The complex weighed 15 kg in a combat position, and 16,5 kg in a marching position. The relatively light weight made it possible to carry one fighter.

The Strela-2M portable system significantly increased the air defense potential of the battalion and company units of the ground forces. If necessary, shooting could be carried out from a car body, with armored infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers moving at a speed of up to 20 km / h. At the same time, the first mass portable complex had a number of significant drawbacks. Due to the low sensitivity of the seeker, an attack on an enemy jet combat aircraft in the forehead was impossible. The probability of hitting a target under conditions of low cumulus cloud cover illuminated by the sun was sharply reduced. When firing at a target flying at an altitude of less than 50 m, it was not ruled out that the missile was pointing at heat sources on the ground. The minimum angle in the sun at which it was possible to track air targets with a homing head was 25–40 °. The complex was not protected from heat traps fired by airplanes and helicopters.

In the past, I had the opportunity to study the Strela-2M MANPADS and to teach others how to handle it. In feature films, you can see that the launches of MANPADS are carried out without any preparation, almost offhand. In practice, it is not so easy to use. weapon, as is commonly believed among the layman. The shooter must evaluate the flight speed, range, target elevation angle, prelaunch preparation and turn on the one-time starting power supply. About 5 seconds after the power was turned on, the rocket was ready to launch and it was necessary to capture the target, about which the shooter was notified by a sound signal. After the homing head began to steadily follow the target, the control light came on, and the trigger could be pressed. 1-1,5 seconds after receiving the command, the rocket launched. During all this time, the shooter had to accompany the target and not make sudden movements. Moreover, the power-on time is very limited, and this procedure could be performed no more than two times. If after restarting the launch did not occur, it was necessary to replace the power source, and send the unused rocket for maintenance. In the event of a missile, the rocket self-destructed 15-17 seconds after launch.

By and large, the methodology for using Strela-2M and more modern MANPADS is not very different, and I am talking about this so that readers understand that the effective use of portable anti-aircraft systems requires quite a long training and the use of special simulators.

In my memory, experienced shooters who were trained on simulators and perfectly passed all the tests were allowed to start real training launches. Before firing, to increase attentiveness and responsibility, the personnel were verbally informed that the cost of one anti-aircraft missile is equivalent to the price of a Zhiguli passenger car. As training targets, M-13 rockets launched from the BM-13NMM rocket artillery fighting vehicle on the ZIL-131 chassis or parachute targets were used. In the second case, the arrow was much easier to aim and capture the target. Under ideal conditions of the range, the probability of a single missile being hit was above 0,5.

From the experience of combat use in local conflicts, it is known that even well-trained shooters during the reflection of air attacks by launching 10 missiles, on average, shot down 1-2 enemy planes or helicopters. If the enemy used heat traps, then the firing efficiency decreased by about three times.

Taking into account the fact that new types of MANPADS were mainly sent to troops deployed in the western military districts, in units deployed in Siberia, Transbaikalia and the Far East, Strela-2M remained the main portable anti-aircraft system until the second half of the 1990s . Although the probability of hitting air targets for this missile was relatively low, the Strela-2M MANPADS were taken in bulk, and they were well mastered by the troops.

Soon after the mass deliveries of Strela-2M, work began on creating a modification with better noise immunity. In 1974, the Strela-3 MANPADS was adopted for service, but in significant quantities the troops received this complex sometime in 1980.


Shooter with MANPADS "Strela-3"

The mass of MANPADS "Strela-3" in comparison with the "Strela-2M" in the combat position increased by 1 kg, but at the same time the combat characteristics improved significantly. Launch range increased from 4200 to 4500 m. Reach in height from 2200 to 2500 m. The portable system can hit targets flying at an altitude of up to 15 m. Now you can attack jet aircraft in the opposite direction. A significant improvement in the combat characteristics of Strela-3 MANPADS with maximum unification with Strela-2M was achieved mainly due to the use of a fundamentally new GOS with cooling to a temperature of -200 °. A launching mechanism was also introduced, which allowed automatic launching of a rocket against a target located in the launch zone when firing at oncoming courses.

At present, the Strela-2M and Strela-3 MANPADS are recognized obsolete in Russia, but they are not officially withdrawn from service and are in storage. Given the fact that these complexes were produced several decades ago, the coefficient of their technical reliability leaves much to be desired. The most critical elements are disposable electric batteries, and the degradation of fuel charges in engines is also possible. Modernization of morally and physically obsolete portable systems does not make sense, and they must be disposed of.

Even before the adoption of the Strela-3 MANPADS, the development of a more long-range portable system began. In order to accelerate the timelines for creating a new complex in an anti-aircraft missile, a homing head from Strela-3 was used, but a new missile and a launching device were developed. The mass of the complex increased, in the fighting position MANPADS "Igla-1" weighs 17,8 kg, in the marching 19, 7 kg.


The maximum firing range of Igla-1 MANPADS, which was put into service in 1981, is 5000 m. The upper boundary of the affected area is 3000 m. The minimum flight height of the targets is 10 m. The maximum speeds of the fired targets and the probability of destruction have increased. This was achieved through the introduction of an additional circuit and miniature jet engines that ensure the reversal of missiles at an anticipated meeting point with a target in the initial phase of the flight. Also on the launcher appeared electronic switch mode "catch up - towards." The warhead of the rocket was equipped with an additional non-contact fuse, which ensures the defeat of the target with a small miss. A switchable radar interrogator is integrated in the launch mechanism, which carries out target recognition and self-locking the launch of missiles in their aircraft. The commander of the anti-aircraft gunner’s squad received a portable electronic tablet at which he received data on the air situation in a square of 25 x 25 km. The tablet reflected up to four targets with marks on their nationality and on the course of the target’s flight relative to the position of anti-aircraft gunners.

In 1983, the Igla MANPADS entered service, which in our armed forces is still the main means of air defense of the company and battalion units. As in the case of earlier MANPADS models, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers have places for transporting launchers and spare missiles. At the same time, missile launches from combat vehicles are regularly worked out at exercises.


Shooter with Igla MANPADS

The main advantage of the Igla MANPADS in comparison with previous portable systems was the improved sensitivity of the GOS and the ability to work in conditions of artificial thermal noise.

In 2002, the Russian Army officially entered service with the improved Igla-S MANPADS, with a probability of defeat increased to 6000 m. Reach in height - more than 3500 m. However, most of the new MANPADS of the Igla family, after the collapse of the USSR and the beginning of “economic reforms”, were exported. Considering that the warranty period of storage of Igla SAMs in equipped rooms is 10 years, a significant part of the available missiles requires an extension of the resource in the factory, which, however, is much cheaper than the production of new anti-aircraft missiles.


Shooter with MANPADS "Verba"

In 2015, the Verba MANPADS, which is a further development of the domestic line of portable systems, entered service with the Russian army. According to information from the official website of the company developing the complex, the new Verba MANPADS is 1,5-2 times superior in efficiency to previous-generation systems, especially at a distance of more than 3 km. The firing range of targets with low thermal radiation was increased 2,5 times, this was achieved by increasing the sensitivity of the GOS anti-aircraft missile. The security of the complex from powerful pyrotechnic interference has significantly increased. Also, the designers managed to reduce the weight of the combat assets of the complex relative to Igla-S MANPADS from 18,25 kg to 17,25 kg. To use the “Verba” MANPADS in the dark, a detachable night vision sight can be introduced into the complex. Firing range increased to 6500 m, reach in height - 4000 m. The combat work of anti-aircraft gunners is automated, as part of a platoon, it is possible to control the actions of a separate anti-aircraft gunner, with the issuance of individual target designation. The portable fire control module provides the simultaneous solution of fire missions for 15 different air targets.


Assessing the situation with the equipment of our army with modern portable anti-aircraft missile systems, we can assume that there are enough of them in our army. By the number of MANPADS, our armed forces occupy a leading position in the world. So, in the American army there are about 1000 launch tubes for the FIM-92 Stinger MANPADS, the Russian army has about 3 times more portable systems: Igla-1, Igla, Igla-S and Verba. This is largely due to the huge stockpiles of weapons left over from the times of the USSR. After the reduction of the armed forces, a significant number of launchers and anti-aircraft missiles are still stored in warehouses, which can be used to equip existing army units in excess. However, it should be understood that the shelf life of anti-aircraft missiles is not infinite, they require timely maintenance and replacement of a number of elements in the factory. Along with maintaining the combat readiness of previously produced MANPADS, it is necessary to develop and manufacture new compact systems designed to provide air defense for small units.

In the next part of the review, we will talk about mobile military complexes of short and medium range on a wheeled and tracked chassis, available in the Russian army. Consider their numbers, technical condition and prospects.

To be continued ...
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  1. YOUR 10 February 2020 06: 05 New
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    Different complexes that missile that artillery, different tasks, different submissions. It is possible to detect, not to fire, but to detect a target flying at an altitude of 20 - 100 meters at a range not exceeding 35 - 40 km, this is in the best case. At best, fire at a range of 25 km. So make conclusions how many and at what distances from each other anti-aircraft guns should be. In the case of saturation of troops with anti-aircraft weapons, the probability of destroying targets increases significantly. And why spend heavy expensive missiles on some UAVs or helicopters, which cost hundreds of times the cost of destroyed targets, but if other air defense systems are not available then you will have to. The jester knows what these UAVs have there and what they can do.
    1. zyablik.olga 10 February 2020 08: 28 New
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      Quote: YOUR
      Different complexes that missile that artillery, different tasks, different submissions.

      Vladimir, forgive me, but didn’t you say some time ago that there are no 23 mm anti-aircraft guns in the Russian army?
      1. SETSET 10 February 2020 14: 01 New
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        In 2002, the Russian Army officially entered service with the improved Igla-S MANPADS, with a probability of destruction increased to 6000 m.

        Author, write an expression in the Russian language more correctly and correctly, without a double meaning ...
        1. zyablik.olga 10 February 2020 14: 20 New
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          Quote: SETSET
          In 2002, the Russian Army officially entered service with the improved Igla-S MANPADS, with a probability of destruction increased to 6000 m.

          Author, write an expression in the Russian language more correctly and correctly, without a double meaning ...

          Dear I. Vasya, please write your article, and we will see how many typos will be in it. However, you are unlikely to be capable of this ...
          1. SETSET 10 February 2020 15: 13 New
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            Quote: zyablik.olga
            Dear I. Vasya, please write your article, and we will see how many typos will be in it. However, you are unlikely to be capable of this ...

            You are not capable of anything at all? Forgot to write about the 3-spectral GOS of the Willow missile - this is a big step in the development of MANPADS ...
            Work silently with your flaws in your analysis of air defense systems! I, unlike you, can count well in radar and not only ...
            1. zyablik.olga 10 February 2020 15: 32 New
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              Quote: SETSET
              You are not capable of anything at all? Forgot to write about the 3-spectral GOS of the Willow missile - this is a big step in the development of MANPADS ...

              I am not an author, and you know that. But why did you decide that the author is obliged to thoroughly describe each mentioned sample. fool Or you have nothing to complain about ... negative
              It is even more strange when a character begins to teach others who has several accounts at the same time, who is banned weekly for rudeness and trolling. negative
              1. SETSET 10 February 2020 19: 19 New
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                Quote: zyablik.olga

                Dear I. Vasya, please write your article, and we will see how many typos will be in it. However, you are unlikely to be capable of this ...

                Quote: zyablik.olga
                It’s all the more strange when others start to teach a character having multiple accounts at the same time, whose weekly banned for rudeness and trolling.

                zyablik.olga! Note - I did not insult you, unlike you. And you do this regularly when they point out your mistakes. Learn to adequately respond to your shortcomings and mistakes. I have repeatedly taught you, since you showed together Sergei Linnik, my friend opus - complete ignorance of many USA radars - for example AN / TPY-2, could not calculate the radar detection range, which is equal to 5000 km with a target of 10 m2.
                Are you still taking revenge and spitting? Moreover, my name is not Vasya.
                1. zyablik.olga 11 February 2020 03: 21 New
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                  Quote: SETSET
                  Note - I did not insult you, unlike you.

                  Where did I offend you? You will deny that you were repeatedly banned for rudeness, insults and trolling, and you have several accounts every month?
                  Quote: SETSET
                  And you do it regularly when they point out your mistakes

                  What mistakes, do you have a gobbling gungee and nagging ... negative
                  Quote: SETSET
                  Learn to adequately respond to your shortcomings and mistakes.

                  If someone will be interested in your opinion, you will be asked about this.
                  Quote: SETSET
                  I have repeatedly taught you

                  Exactly ... who needs your teachings? fool
                  Quote: SETSET
                  e.g. AN / TPY-2, could not calculate radar detection range

                  In the comments to the article where the AN / TPY-2 radar was mentioned, it says where this range came from, but it's not interesting to you.
                  Quote: SETSET
                  Are you still taking revenge and spitting?

                  People are judged by their actions, and by how they communicate with others. What good can be said about the character who is banned several times a month, and who simultaneously has several accounts? Will you deny it?
                  Quote: SETSET
                  Moreover, my name is not Vasya.

                  I deeply care about your name. But on the site you are known exactly as And .... Vasya. wassat
  2. DMB 75 10 February 2020 06: 09 New
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    Do we have many air defense systems?

    There are many, many odd ones ... By the number of MANPADS, our armed forces occupy a leading position in the world.
  3. Amateur 10 February 2020 07: 09 New
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    Now consider the available MANPADS. Until the mid-1980s, the main MANPADS of the Soviet army was Strela-2M, which was adopted in 1970.

    And I was a young girl
    I don’t remember when ...

    Exactly 50 years have passed, but the people remember!
    And here is the very first case of the use of Russian air defense against the Serpent-Gorynych
  4. rocket757 10 February 2020 07: 14 New
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    Do we have many air defense systems? Anti-aircraft artillery and MANPADS

    Many, not many ... enough of what is needed. One thing is obvious, it is necessary to automate the process of monitoring airspace, reconnaissance and control of the entire air defense system. Autonomous control of the calculation, it’s completely to the extreme, in a situation of separation / distance from the network management structure, full autonomy.
  5. sen
    sen 10 February 2020 08: 12 New
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    Here's what our military experts thought before:
    “The massive use of cruise missiles (CR) in combination with their high accuracy dramatically reduced the effectiveness of existing air defense systems. In order to resist the attacks of the KR, it is necessary to place a sufficient number of anti-aircraft missile launcher systems with a total ammunition in dangerous directions, in two - three times the total number of missile defense systems in such raids. Considering that in one of the recent military conflicts more than two thousand missile defense systems were fired, the total ammunition of air defense systems for their destruction should be four to six thousand rockets. Not every country is capable of such, not to mention the economic feasibility of using anti-KR large anti-aircraft missiles, at a price comparable to or even superior to their cost. Developers air defense systems came to the conclusion that it MANPADS pretty much suited for this purpose. "
    1. neri73-r 10 February 2020 11: 00 New
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      Quote: sen
      The developers of the air defense systems came to the conclusion that it is MANPADS that is largely suitable for this purpose. "

      + EW, very effective.
    2. serg v zapase 11 February 2020 12: 21 New
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      Two pieces of rockets fired around the country! That country was not able to answer. Imagine if the south has calibers, will a Belgian or German pilot fly to bomb the capital? The use of even hundreds of missiles and aircraft will provoke heat and light emission in a compartment with a shock wave in the territory of the aggressor capitals.
  6. The leader of the Redskins 10 February 2020 08: 37 New
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    Thanks to the author for a fairly detailed review. We look forward to continuing.
  7. svp67 10 February 2020 10: 13 New
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    There are not many air defense systems, there are only a LITTLE of them, since one single plane, a missile, an attack UAV can bring a lot of troubles. It’s another matter that the troops must receive both new systems and modernized ones, and the existing potential of these funds must be used to the maximum
  8. Nikolaevich I 10 February 2020 10: 17 New
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    Modernization of morally and physically obsolete portable systems does not make sense, and they must be disposed of. Well, everything in this world is "relatively relative"! Never say never" ! Vaughn "brothers-Ukrainians" with might and main offer to upgrade the obsolete MANPADS "Strela-2 ...", "Igla-1" (!) ... "ukro-options" - "Strela-2MM", "Igla-1M"! In addition, it is possible to modernize the Strela-2, Strela-2M MANPADS with the aim of using them against UAVs after replacing the IK.GOSN with a semi-active laser or radio frequency receiver ...
    1. Bongo 10 February 2020 16: 11 New
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      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Well, everything in this world is "relatively relative"! Never say never" ! Vaughn "brothers-Ukrainians" with might and main offer to modernize obsolete MANPADS "Strela-2 ...", "Igla-1"

      Hello Vladimir hi
      The "Ukrainian brothers" simply have no other way. In Soviet times, the Strela-2M MANPADS was produced by the Arsenal plant in Kiev and the corresponding documentation in Ukraine certainly remained. The Ukrainian version of "Strela-2MM" is a complex on which, in the factory, extended operation, replaced the fuel charge, and also installed a new cooled GOS. At the same time, noise immunity and firing range increased slightly. But a dramatic improvement in combat performance did not happen.
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      In addition, it is possible to modernize the Strela-2, Strela-2M MANPADS with the aim of using them against UAVs after replacing the IK.GOSN with a semi-active laser or radio frequency receiver ...

      "Arrow-2" was not in the troops already in the 80s. Upgrading hopelessly outdated complexes, if we have in our stores in sufficient quantities much more modern Igla-1 and Igla, does not make sense. In Ukraine, they started to upgrade Strela-2M for we do not have the best. Russia is in a much more advantageous situation.
      1. Nikolaevich I 11 February 2020 02: 44 New
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        Hello, Sergey! soldier Well, fix with them, "ukro-modernization"! (although the "descriptions" about upgrading Strela-2M, Igla-1 are more "enthusiastic" than your reviews ... wink ) But as for the mention of “Strela-2” specifically ... Duc, they came to the word (!) ... as an “example” of the fact that the “old” one can be “revived”! I did not extend the line, listing also "Arrow-3", "Needle-1"! The fact that MANPADS "Strela-2" has long been absent from the troops is understandable! And in the "caches"? (At one time, I had to read that the militia of the LDNR also used the Strela-2 MANPADS, “taken from storage depots” ... the topic: “from which storage depots?” Is, of course, not discussed ...). "Make" from the old zur MANPADS "Strela-2", a rally-controlled "zur to combat UAVs (!) Will be cheaper than from" zero. "And performance characteristics (n.d. = 3,4 km; = 1,5 km) they will do! Moreover, there are more “powerful” and “fresh” MANPADS ... (“Arrow-2” again came to the word “!”) As an interim (temporary) solution of military air defense against UAVs ( between “what is” and “what will be” ...) it may work! hi
  9. V.I.P. 10 February 2020 10: 26 New
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    The media write that the Moscow Region decided to replace shilka, tungusok with derivation without a radar. They will leave more MANPADS .. Will these means and tori be able to cover the troops on the march or on the positions? They will be able to deal with such threats as Spike N-Los (the launch range from the ground launcher is 25 km without the line of sight of the target), Spike-ER (from the helicopter -8 km). JAGM (16 km launch from a low-flying helicopter, 28 km from an UAV or F-18 altitude), Brimstone 2 (60 km launch from an airplane, 40 km launch from a helicopter), planning aerial bomb GBU 39 (discharge from 100 km), small-sized GBU 53 / B 2 (100 km for a stationary target, 70 km for a moving one) .... Well, the ZU-23 is all the more useless from both these means and their carriers ... They mainly use it for ground targets ... .
    1. Private-K 11 February 2020 13: 25 New
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      The media write that the Moscow Region decided to replace shilka, tungusok with derivation without a radar. Will leave more MANPADS

      Lies.

      Will these funds and tori be able to cover troops on the march or on positions? They will be able to deal with such threats as ...

      In addition to short-range and short-range air defense systems (up to 12 km) consisting of equipping combined arms brigades and divisions, there is also a det. SV anti-aircraft missile units equipped with medium-range Buk air defense systems - up to 35-50 km.

      When asking an accusingly rhetorical “question” about the capabilities of the Russian military air defense, it would be nice to mention what’s happening with similar “challenges” among the rich NATO countries and the hegemon of the three oceans.
      1. Bongo 11 February 2020 13: 36 New
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        Quote: Private-K
        you’d better mention what’s with similar “challenges” among the rich NATO countries and the hegemon of the three oceans.

        In the United States, and in part in NATO countries, a slightly different approach to providing air defense is required. Due to the geographic distance from the main probable opponents in the United States, air defense is assigned to fighters. There are more air defense systems in NATO, but they certainly cannot compete with Russia in the number of complexes in the troops and the number of types. But this does not mean that at us or at them everything is bad or everything is good. Just a different approach, and different military doctrines. Who will do better, a lot depends on various factors and many variables.
        1. Private-K 11 February 2020 14: 18 New
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          Yes, it is clear.
          Only the above ammunition (TSA, etc.) fighters are not countered as much.
          1. Bongo 11 February 2020 14: 22 New
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            Quote: Private-K
            Yes, it is clear.
            Only the above ammunition (TSA, etc.) fighters are not countered as much.

            Oleg, do you think that it is possible to effectively combat ammunition with the help of air defense systems, after separating them from the carrier with the mass use of these TSAs?
            1. Private-K 11 February 2020 14: 35 New
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              Effective - not yet. But somehow, at least something, a certain percentage - quite.
              The percentage depends on the type of missile / bomb, its LTX, etc.
              In the future, short-range air defense missile defense systems based on KAZ armored vehicles. Especially, based on the principle of "impact core". Radar, math and software are already there.
              And in all this, the Russian Federation is ahead of everyone. Probably because the first, and for a long time already, was preoccupied with such threats. And for many others - the horse did not roll. There Americans, urgently, twist the latest military air defense system with missiles from Stinger, and the rest - Israeli components. Piggy full.
              And in the Russian Federation, they’re about to become armed and will go to the troops: the latest Sosna-R air defense system and, possibly, the 57-mm ZSU Derivatsiya-PVO. At the same time, there is already a Tor air defense system (no one even has a close equivalent complex), there is a Tunguska air defense system (some part will be modernized), there is a magnificent brand new Verba air defense missile system with a cool missile, there are new radar systems, ASU, optoelectronics, and communication equipment .. .
              1. Bongo 11 February 2020 14: 45 New
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                Quote: Private-K
                And in all this, the Russian Federation is ahead of everyone.

                Unfortunately, not "ahead of everyone." There are achievements and achievements, but on the basis of what I personally know (not knowing thoroughly the big picture), I do not share your optimism. Our main problem is the lack of our own modern electronic element base, and this will come back very strongly in the future.
                In fairness, I must say that in recent years, air defense troops began to receive new equipment, but so far only patching holes is in progress.
                Quote: Private-K
                And in the Russian Federation, they’re about to become armed and will go to the troops: the latest Sosna-R air defense system and, possibly, the 57-mm ZSU Derivatsiya-PVO. At the same time, there is already a Tor air defense system (no one even has a close equivalent complex), there is a Tunguska air defense system (some part will be modernized), there is a magnificent brand new Verba air defense missile system with a cool missile, there are new radar systems, ASU, optoelectronics, and communication equipment .. .

                Let's talk about what is, and less enthusiasm. Compared to Soviet times, the capabilities of our air defense subsided several times. So far, new complexes and systems only partially compensate for what needs to be replaced urgently.
                1. Private-K 11 February 2020 15: 51 New
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                  The USSR, too, was completely behind the West in the element base. Forever. But, for now, manages to get out.
                  And, in today's fact, we have what I have already indicated: despite the absolute advantage in elemental meringues, the United States concocts a shameful military air defense system for such a power on its knee. And in Europe there is also nothing new that is workable at this level.
                  1. Bongo 11 February 2020 16: 03 New
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                    Quote: Private-K
                    The USSR, too, was completely behind the West in the element base. Forever. But, for now, manages to get out.

                    Lagging behind, but not critical. In the USSR, the entire elemental base was its own production, which cannot be said about our current defense products.
                    Quote: Private-K
                    Sha concoct a shameful for such a power military air defense missile defense on his knee.

                    Have you heard about the cost-effectiveness criterion? Americans are trying to quickly get the cheapest complex possible. Do you personally doubt the abilities of such monsters as Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Honeywell and in the company with the British BAE Systems to create a truly effective SAM?
                    Quote: Private-K
                    And in Europe there is also nothing new that is workable at this level.

                    In Europe, in fact, a lot of decent things were created in terms of air defense. The question of motivation, it will be necessary, will strain and do.
                    1. Private-K 12 February 2020 12: 16 New
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                      Quote: Bongo
                      Have you heard about the cost-effectiveness criterion?

                      I heard. Therefore, do Americans and some of the Europeans produce Zur based on Ur air-to-air at a frantic price?
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Americans are trying to quickly get the cheapest complex possible.

                      It is already more expensive than specialized. Yes, even put on an expensive (and, at the same time, the worst of its class) base. Plus - with an efficiency not significantly higher than that of the Avenger air defense systems of the same SV.
                      Where are the propelled super maneuverable missile interceptors in the form of a smaller AIM-120 in size ??? Ahaha.
                      Quote: Bongo
                      You personally doubt the abilities of monsters like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Honeywell

                      Yes, I doubt it. And you know why? Because they do not have the corresponding competencies in this particular kind of weapon. The United States did not have its own military air defense system other than the ugly and disgraceful Chaparel (missile launcher is a “mundane sidewinder of poor modification). Could they create then - they would then. But in real life? But in real life, they were interested in European air defense systems Krotal and Roland. But also, they didn’t take them into service, because for them, for some reason, they would go out in production very expensive. (And what?)
                      What about the Europeans? And Europeans are completely stagnant. France has nothing but Krotal (the year 1971 began production) and only modernized it in the 90s and 00s. Those. - level of the Soviet Osa-AKM. Germany is generally zero. (SAM SAMs Stinger on a self-propelled chassis - "all of them.")
                      The Britons shocked the Starstrik air defense system. He is not bad, but because it is based on the MANPADS concept, and its performance characteristics are very limited. Similarly, the Swedish RBS-70.
                      None of these air defense systems is capable of intercepting any TSA or the like. Unlike Thor and Shell. All of them are quite old - the development years of the 70-80s. The freshest Starstrik - beginning. 90s.
                      And, the following fact, no work is underway on the creation of new-generation air defense military equipment in Europe. Only the Swedes continue to sculpt something based on the RBS70.
                      As a palliative, they only have naval air defense missile defense systems based on aircraft missiles (that is, immediately, the price is terrible, and the effectiveness is interrogative).

                      "Motivation", in the modern world, is equal to "money."
                      The budgets of the United States and Europeans are huge. But they constantly yell that "there is no money."
                      Well, at least some signs of "moral motivation" are absent among Amers and Europeans as a type of consciousness - this is etched. And it has no real reason - no one there believes that hordes of Russian bombers will fly to bomb peaceful burghers.

                      Modern weapons megacorporations are too accustomed to PR and drink without real exhaust and landing-executions of embezzlers. This is directly evidenced by the many closed mega-expensive weapons programs with near-zero exhaust. If you want, then this is one of the characteristic indicators of the crisis of the current stage of capitalism. hi
  10. Above_name 10 February 2020 10: 41 New
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    The mass of MANPADS "Strela-3" ... Launch range increased from 4200 to 4500 m.

    Maximum firing range MANPADS "Igla-1" .. is 5000 m.
  11. Nikolay R-PM 10 February 2020 11: 07 New
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    Sergey, thanks. an excerpt in order of firing from boom-2 vividly reminded of theoretical classes at the time. True, everything was "on fingers" there))
    1. Bongo 10 February 2020 16: 17 New
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      Quote: Nikolai R-PM
      Sergey, thanks. an excerpt in order of firing from boom-2 vividly reminded of theoretical classes at the time. True, everything was "on fingers" there))

      Nikolay, hello! And you did not have simulators painted in yellow?
      1. Nikolay R-PM 10 February 2020 20: 15 New
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        everything turned out pretty funny. in my student body in the showroom there were several training models of old birds (phalanx and baby), cut to-13 and a yellow "arrow". there they managed to see and touch. and in the army everything was “on fingers” (without mock-ups, but with training materials) one of the ensigns-technicians explained. truth told in detail and with enthusiasm.
        I honestly don’t know if the PZRK staff are in technical staff, but they did the lesson.
  12. Operator 10 February 2020 11: 50 New
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    The trunks of 23 mm guns withstand 500 rounds, i.e. they must be changed after each battle; shutters - 1000 shots, i.e. two fights. The gun mount on the carriage, on the wheeled platform, sways when firing so that it has accuracy plus or minus the bast shoe.

    All MANPADS ranging from “Willow” and ending with “Stinger” have a primitive IR + UV matrix, which can be easily fooled by a cheap shooting trap.

    At close range, they control the MNTK and Nails.
    1. Narak-zempo 10 February 2020 13: 45 New
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      Quote: Operator
      All MANPADS ranging from “Willow” and ending with “Stinger” have a primitive IR + UV matrix, which can be easily fooled by a cheap shooting trap.

      And what is the problem with the modern development of technology to teach the GOS to accurately recognize the target against any background of interference? There, the Yankees for “Javelin” back in the 90s realized the memorization of the image of the target.
      1. Operator 10 February 2020 13: 50 New
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        And hell knows - in fact, the Javlin IR matrix is ​​much more multi-disciplinary than Verba or Stinger.
        1. Narak-zempo 10 February 2020 14: 11 New
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          Quote: Operator
          And hell knows - in fact, the Javlin IR matrix is ​​much more multi-disciplinary than Verba or Stinger.

          Well, the “Stingers” are a lot of modifications, and there is reason to believe that the GOS of modern models are still very different from the first “Afghan” ones.
          In general, the selection of a ground target on the battlefield is much more complicated than in the sky.
          1. Operator 10 February 2020 14: 45 New
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            Many pixels are needed to select traps in the air that are shot.
    2. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 14: 59 New
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      All MANPADS ranging from “Willow” and ending with “Stinger” have a primitive IR + UV matrix, which can be easily fooled by a cheap shooting trap.

      If everything was so simple, our attack aircraft and front-line bombers, on board of which there were enough false targets on board, wouldn’t have shot down in Afghanistan and Chechnya ... Have you heard anything about the algorithm for selecting false targets?
      1. Operator 10 February 2020 15: 10 New
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        In Afghanistan and Chechnya, they used essentially aerosol rather than fired autonomous traps with an IR / UV signature that matches a specific type of airplane or helicopter.
        1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 16 New
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          I’ll come from the other side. Have you heard the expression "kinematics analysis"?
          1. Operator 10 February 2020 15: 18 New
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            In this case - the analysis of the trajectory, but what I mean - "autonomous" zhezh.
            1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 21 New
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              So what am I talking about - "autonomous" zhezh.

              Like, they imitate not only the spectrum of radiation, but also the motion parameters?
              1. Operator 10 February 2020 15: 22 New
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                Naturally.
                1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 25 New
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                  belay And where did you see such false goals?
                  1. Operator 10 February 2020 15: 32 New
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                    From old models
                    https://topwar.ru/12650-buksiruemye-lozhnye-celi-raytheon-v-ale-50.html
                    1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 44 New
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                      Why are you fooling me! Here, here, where have you seen such false goals? I know that they everything is fine there; but it was with us that the Rooks were driven into the ground, and not their Tenderbolts.
        2. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 16: 13 New
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          In Afghanistan and Chechnya, they used essentially aerosol

          What makes pyrotechnic cartridge with aerosol related? After all, it was they who were charged into the automatic machines for shooting false targets?
    3. Bongo 10 February 2020 16: 24 New
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      Quote: Operator
      The trunks of 23 mm guns withstand 500 rounds, i.e. they must be changed after each battle; shutters - 1000 shots, i.e. two fights

      To release 1000 shells from the rig without changing trunks each of which weighs almost 200 g is normal.
      Quote: Operator
      The gun mount on the carriage, on the wheeled platform, sways when firing so that it has accuracy plus or minus the bast shoe.

      Andrei, I saw at the training ground how a parachute target was shot down from ZU-23 in several short bursts. Maybe you shot from another installation?
      Quote: Operator
      All MANPADS ranging from “Willow” and ending with “Stinger” have a primitive IR + UV matrix, which can be easily fooled by a cheap shooting trap.

      I'm afraid that the pilots of the Rooks flying in Afghanistan will not agree with you. This is despite the fact that “Willow” in comparison with the FIM-92 Stinger of the early 80s has progressed very seriously.
      Quote: Operator
      At close range, they control the MNTK and Nails.

      Yeah, also "Relights", "Poseidons" and "Zircons". Let's talk about what really is in the troops.
      1. Korax71 10 February 2020 17: 00 New
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        Sergei hi great article good I can be mistaken, but in my opinion the resource is 6k shots per installation, i.e. for 3k shots per barrel with full cooling every 100 shots. In the spare parts are one replacement barrel for each 2a14 assault rifle. hi in fact, the beast machine did not have a chance to use it for air targets, but it works on the ground more than perfectly.
  13. Narak-zempo 10 February 2020 13: 22 New
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    And why can not MANPADS, which have an expiry date, be thrown into the civilian market?
    Vaughn, "Maxims" and DP sell.
    1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 07 New
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      "Cool" MANPADS, this is "tin" laughing But I do not see a “tactical niche” for its application. Against the raven, so that the gardens do not attack? Isn’t it easier to use the good old slingshot from Soviet childhood? Although ... people in the back of a pick-up truck with a “shaitan-pipe” will look brutal enough to attract the attention of local ladies good hi
      1. Narak-zempo 10 February 2020 15: 30 New
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        Quote: Narak-zempo
        Vaughn, "Maxims" and DP sell.

        Quote: Brylevsky
        "Cool" MANPADS, this is "tin"

        Why sober? About the machine guns there was infa that they simply cleaned the automatic mode and sold it as hunting trunks.
        A MANPADS come in handy to wean private air transport to break the silence over the residential area.
        1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 38 New
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          About the machine guns there was infa that they simply cleaned the automatic mode and sold it as hunting trunks.

          You can believe me that not a single beast hunter with DP and, especially, with Maxim will not go. Especially if they are remade under a single fire. We have a lot of stupid things to sell, at least take the civilian version of Vintorez. From "Vintorez" there is only a name. And the price ...
          A MANPADS come in handy to wean private air transport to break the silence over the residential area.

          Are you sure you have exhausted all available options?
          1. Narak-zempo 10 February 2020 15: 43 New
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            Quote: Brylevsky
            You can believe me that not a single beast hunter with DP and, especially, with Maxim will not go.

            The fact that no one in their right mind will go hunting with a machine gun does not mean that there are no people who want to buy a coveted shooting piece of iron just for satisfaction. Although in such a "hunting" performance, it’s impossible in a different way.
            Quote: Brylevsky
            Are you sure you have exhausted all available options?

            I am in favor of immediately applying the most effective methods. Parked, blocking the exit from the entrance - get a brick on the roof. You fly over the area and interfere with sleep - catch a rocket.
            1. Brylevsky 10 February 2020 15: 51 New
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              You fly over the area and interfere with sleep - catch a rocket.

              How bloodthirsty you are ... I recommend that you try barrage balloons. Cheap and, most importantly, not lethal. In the literal sense of the word...
  14. Operator 10 February 2020 16: 35 New
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    Quote: Bongo
    I saw at a training ground how a parachute target was shot down from ZU-23 in several short bursts

    I saw on YouTube how the ZU-23-2 suburban crew shot all the ammunition, but could not bring down the UAV at an altitude of about 300 meters.
    1. Bongo 10 February 2020 16: 40 New
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      Quote: Operator
      I saw on YouTube how the ZU-23-2 suburban crew shot all the ammunition, but could not bring down the UAV at an altitude of about 300 meters.

      This only speaks of poor preparation of the calculation. In crooked hands, no weapon will be effective. no Judging by the actions of the Armed Forces, the effectiveness of a particular weapon is at least strange. With the same success, Arabs or Blacks can be cited as an example. request
  15. Cats 10 February 2020 19: 57 New
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    Due to the widespread use and application of the ZU-23-2, it would be interesting to install on its machine (or carriage, right?), Instead of two 23 mm guns, install one 30A 2M38 double-barreled gun used on Tunguska and "Shell", at least because of the unification of ammunition and equipment. repeat
  16. rusboris 10 February 2020 22: 47 New
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    ZSU 23 and Shilka is no longer a means of air defense. They are not written off due to the lack of other anti-aircraft artillery systems. Derivation-air defense for another 2 years will "flounder between heaven and earth." So that 200 necessary pieces will be made no earlier than in 4 years. Our customers missed the necessary moment of ZAK deployment. Even after the Syrian experience, spruce spruce spruce stir. In short, theorists of air defense drove, anti-aircraft artillery in the ass is completely undeserved. Now they are forced to fire missiles worth 6 million at penny UAVs and rockets. The next mistake with the foresight of our theorists and lobbyists came out. Khrushchev voluntarism is immortal.
  17. Orkraider 11 February 2020 08: 58 New
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    Sergey, hi
    Thank you for the quality article. We look forward to continuing.

    It is a pity that I did not hear your opinion on the Derivative-Air Defense, on it what do you think?
    1. Bongo 11 February 2020 12: 03 New
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      Quote: Orkraider
      It is a pity that I did not hear your opinion on the Derivative-Air Defense, on it what do you think?

      Be patient, I will get to Derivation-Air Defense in the following parts. hi
      1. Orkraider 11 February 2020 12: 40 New
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        Excellent. good
        I appreciate your opinions, as well as your articles, so I'm waiting.
        Have a nice day
  18. sivuch 11 February 2020 10: 31 New
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    That's why I was surprised that the article was correctly written. And it turns out that Sergey wrote wink
    1. Bongo 11 February 2020 12: 01 New
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      Quote: sivuch
      That's why I was surprised that the article was correctly written. And it turns out that Sergey wrote

      Igor, thanks! drinks
      As for the Strela-10 air defense system, the direction finder is available only on the command vehicle. On the rest, "zone assessment equipment" is a millimeter-range radio range finder and a calculating and resolving device.
  19. Sckepsis 17 February 2020 22: 19 New
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    Thus, talking about the archaism of the 23 mm anti-aircraft guns is premature

    Still unconvincing.
    P.S. welcome back.