Compulsory health insurance in Russia: real health insurance or its imitation


In 2020, the budget of the Health Insurance Fund will amount to 2 trillion. rubles and will grow compared with 3 by almost 2019 billion. The supplement is decent. It is caused, first of all, by the adjustment of the social policy of the government after the presidential decrees.


Questions after the reform


The problems faced by the country's health care affected the interests of every citizen of Russia. The optimization of the industry undertaken by the Ministry of Health has led to a sharp reduction in doctors in the regions. Plus, the medical infrastructure, which, as acknowledged by Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova, “has not been touched by anyone since the late 50s,” crumbled into fragments.

As a result, the population’s access to medical care was difficult. Officials at once talked about the problems of primary care in our three-tier healthcare. The population does not know much about these levels, but in practice it was convinced: the optimization of the Ministry of Health pushes people out of state polyclinics and hospitals into paid ones.

This circumstance bothered many. Some due to lack of funds for treatment, others due to the long-standing habit of free medical care. The third was surprised that the same doctor who is admitted to the state clinic for a month in advance is free to admit to a paid clinic ...

The question naturally arose: why then the compulsory medical insurance policy (MHI), which guarantees the constitutional right of a person to health care? This is real insurance or its imitation. Each answered him in his own way - depending on the level of culture and humor, the severity of the need for medical care.

In fact, there are not so many claims against insurance companies. Surveys show that somewhere in 9% of cases people had disagreements with policyholders. Another thing is the quality of medical services provided under the compulsory medical insurance policy.

Check digits are not encouraging


Last fall, the Ministry of Economic Development made a synthesis report on the implementation of state programs. There were comments on the state program “Healthcare Development”. The report noted that only 38,7% of Russian residents were satisfied with the quality of medical services.

It is noteworthy that a year earlier this indicator was higher by 1,2 percentage points. But the target indicator of the program (41,7%) was never achieved. There is nothing to be surprised at. The answers of citizens who assessed the level of medical care in polyclinics, ambulances and hospitals showed: people, first of all, are not happy with how the work in medical institutions is organized.

There is a whole bunch of problems: queues, a long wait for an appointment with a specialist, a refusal to provide physiotherapeutic procedures, an increase in the volume of paid services. It is characteristic that a quarter of respondents consider medical services simply inaccessible to the population.

This conclusion can be called into question, attributed to the capriciousness of people. But it is better to look at the real practice of recent years. And it is such that the Ministry of Health threw various kinds of “road maps” under its jurisdictions, the purpose of which was to expand the range of paid services to improve the financing of medical facilities.

The scope of administrative imagination was very wide. For example, a patient was faced with a choice: either wait in line for an operation in a hospital, or pay for urgency. Under the terms of insurance, the time from the initial appointment of the patient to surgery should not exceed six months.

In many cases, this is beyond the time. Therefore, people had to look for means to solve their health problems themselves. The same situation exists with the provision of physiotherapeutic procedures, consultations with invited specialists, etc.

The Ministry of Health is forced to admit ...


It turned out that for a number of services, state-owned medical institutions have already become difficult to distinguish from commercial ones. Not only that, it reduced the availability of free medical care to people. Doctors of private clinics were indignant. They called the paid services of their colleagues "dumping and unscrupulous competition."

Last year, the Ministry of Health acknowledged that “the existing regulatory framework does not allow a clear distinction to be made which services should be provided to citizens for free and which could be provided additionally for a fee. In addition, the issue of the amount of the cost of medical services provided on a paid basis has not been resolved. ”

The Office promised "to develop a draft amendment to the rules for the provision of paid medical services to clinics and hospitals." However, this was limited. Although it is obvious that the problem, as they say, is overripe.

People ceased to feel where the state really insured their life and health, and where its imitation, which covered the greed of the administrations of medical institutions. Perhaps the increase in the budget of the MHI fund will help to come closer to solving this urgent problem.
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  1. Svarog 6 February 2020 14: 20 New
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    Compulsory health insurance in Russia: real health insurance or its imitation

    Of course, an imitation .. You can only get to the therapist without problems .. Narrow specialists wait a month or less .. and the therapist will make the same diagnosis as the Internet .. despite the fact that the therapist makes the diagnosis based on a visual examination .. To the dentist it’s difficult to get in for free .. for a long time .. and the seals will still offer to put “lights” for money .. separately separately in evidence ..
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. rocket757 6 February 2020 14: 32 New
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      Compulsory health insurance in Russia: real health insurance or its imitation

      Of course it is, but the level is different everywhere! Then, we just don’t know much and don’t use it, some are not nearby, but it’s very necessary.
      In general, plus or minus is very dependent on many reasons. Particularly dependent on wealth in the family, this is an indisputable fact.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. rocket757 6 February 2020 15: 03 New
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          Quote: VO Administrator
          You already decide on this issue Victor without hesitation!

          A hundred times I already wrote, SOVIET MAN, this system, this power is not mine by definition! Always against the default, because they are OTHER .... just when SPECIFIC FACTS are considered, my subjective perception does not matter, I evaluate, I try to evaluate, because there is and I do not try to compare with what it was.
          Now, if the question is to compare what HAS been with what IS, this is a completely different conversation.
          In fact, THIS POWER is not for the working people, their goals and objectives are completely different. But since they can’t do without us at all, until they are eager to ruin everything here and now .... they will automatically, implicitly succeed, simply because they are OTHER, NOT SOVIET!
          I do not idealize the Soviet, but what is now can destroy my country.
          My opinion, I do not impose it on anyone.
          1. Lexus 6 February 2020 15: 08 New
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            Victor, all those who did not rush into a “breakthrough” or break through will soon be considered “demolitionists”. Klishas is already "working" on this ...
            1. rocket757 6 February 2020 17: 59 New
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              They will not pinch anything, tighten the nuts, above the necessary, this does not make practical sense, and in the end it is dangerous.
              With whatever concrete individual, leader of the masses, the SYSTEM is opposing, they will fight, extinguish by any means! But this must be a real, principled confrontation that poses a threat to the SYSTEM!
              Empty chatter, such as our "talker" does not threaten anyone, like all our "opposition" combined.
              There may be small-town excesses, but this is a separate issue. The upper ones may well rule it out if the small-town “master” isn’t from their table, and the media will unleash a scandal to the skies .....
          2. Den717 7 February 2020 06: 17 New
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            Quote: rocket757
            A hundred times I already wrote, SOVIET MAN, this system, this power is not mine by definition! Always against the default, because they are OTHER

            But why didn’t you, a Soviet man, climb a tank in August 1991 and fill the EBN’s face? You write a bunch of excuses right now, but the essence is the same - both under the Soviet regime and under “not your authority” you are not capable of active actions for your ideals. Sit in the kitchen, raping a Chinese computer and trying to denounce those who ensure peace and security. Remember what it was. They also sat in the kitchens and quietly bonfired either Brezhnev or Chernenko with the entire Politburo, and then with their portraits on holidays they left the square "in a single rush." And everyone saw perfectly how the country under the CPSU was rotting. There were tips then, but there was no progress, at least as in China. Stubborn adherence to the dogmas of the era of the 20s of the last century led to the fact that it is difficult to name something in which there was no shortage. Today we have already forgotten this word, and then, wherever you look, records, lines, searches for something under the counter. So the "sausage trains to Moscow" took root in our everyday life. Even books, and those on lists, on coupons. Well, which is simpler - print, earn income, because the population buys, tears it off with his hands. But no. At the Congress of Soviets, they approved a plan - neither to the right nor to the left .... After all, the USSR fled not because it could not cope with the technological race, but because it “stumbled” on jeans, underpants, chewing gum with phonograph records and the Politburo’s complete nonsense elementary life of the people. You remember today about free housing. Yes it was. But he was chronically lacking. I myself remember the time when they lived in full measure in the Khrushchev dvushka. Mother was the first in line for about 10 years, but she was constantly bypassed by nomenclature workers. Remember what is it?
            1. rocket757 7 February 2020 07: 02 New
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              And you climbed somewhere, built barricades, under the red banners, were you storming something?
              Quote: Den717
              the essence is the same - both under the Soviet regime and under “not your authority” you are not capable of active actions for your ideals.

              But this is closer, not to the truth, to the essence of what was happening then.
              Quote: Den717
              And everyone saw perfectly how the country under the CPSU was rotting.

              But this is NOT a FACT! For all is not necessary.
              Quote: Den717
              There were tips then, but there was no progress, at least as in China.

              This, too, was not visible, until a certain point, do not fantasize.
              Evaluate correctly THEN, this is not how you can ernch now that much of the hidden has climbed out.
              Quote: Den717
              After all, the USSR fled not because it could not cope with the technological race, but because it “stumbled” on jeans, underpants, chewing gum with phonograph records and the Politburo’s complete disregard for the basic life of the people.

              The tricky question is what you listed in the same heap of reasons.
              1. rocket757 7 February 2020 07: 06 New
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                Quote: Den717
                I myself remember the time when they lived in full measure in the Khrushchev dvushka. Mother was the first in line for about 10 years, but she was constantly bypassed by nomenclature workers. Remember what is it?

                It was, many of them passed ... I had to get a job at a house-building plant, so that they would give an apartment to a small family ... give 2 - 3 years.
                Or go to an all-Union construction site ... during the construction of the All-Russian Exhibition of Chemical Complexes, there were NO queues for housing among the SPECIALISTS of the visitors! It was like that too.
                There were a lot of things.
                1. Den717 7 February 2020 07: 32 New
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                  Quote: rocket757
                  And you climbed somewhere, built barricades, under the red banners, were you storming something?

                  And I'm not nostalgic for the past. I was then ready to work out the tasks of the Emergency Committee. Sorry the team did not pass ....
                  Quote: rocket757
                  But this is NOT a FACT! For all is not necessary.

                  Of course, Muscovites were fine, as, indeed, today. And I lived in a millionaire in the Urals. There, the old Cossack was one and a half times more expensive than the new one (this is very significant for the Soviet economy), and oranges were seen only for the new year .... But a person lives not in the plans of heavy industry for the coming five-year period, but in the world of household things surrounding him . He strives for warmth, comfort, security and justice, for the fact that at that time more and more became a scarce commodity.
                  Quote: rocket757
                  This, too, was not visible, until a certain point, do not fantasize.

                  The fact that nowhere was there real resistance to the collapse of the USSR suggests that the people in the middle mass are tired of the Soviet regime of the sample of 85-89 years. And no matter what oil you pour on the “soviets”, there can only be one conclusion - the Soviet government at the turn of the 80s and 90s came to a state of inability to protect itself and a complete loss of support among the people. Remember Lenin? - "Every revolution is only worth something if it knows how to defend itself ..." In this case, this also applies to Soviet power.
                  There were a lot of things.

                  Here I am about the same. Yes, today we are far from ideal, but even then we were no closer. We, in essence, have not changed much. Our ideas about good-evil have not changed dramatically. We then gravitated to what was “not ours”, and today we are nostalgic for what will not return. In short, we love to live in dreams, but we need to live more in the present and look for our reserves for improving our work. We will someday find a better way of life, but before that we are doomed to try everyone else.
                  1. rocket757 7 February 2020 07: 55 New
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                    Quote: Den717
                    In short, we love to live in dreams, but we need to live more in the present and look for our reserves for improving our work. We will someday find a better way of life, but before that we are doomed to try everyone else.

                    I never idealize the Soviet past ... when the question is COMPARED now and then, I simply compare how it was, in fact, as it is now.
                    HUNDREDS REPEATED that there can be no return to the past and it is necessary to go on, to develop further, proceeding from the opportunities that now exist.
                    Nostalgia, it’s not about me, I don’t live in the past ... I have a business that I like to do, that's all .... move on.
                    Soviet man, this is a way of perceiving the world around him, events around what is happening, just.
        2. WILL 6 February 2020 15: 06 New
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          Quote: VO Administrator
          You already decide on this issue Victor without hesitation!
          Does your point of view coincide with the leading line of the United Russia party, or are you for undermining the fundamentals of medical insurance of our state system?

          You’ve chosen a serious Nick belay
          Can I specify? Undermining the basics of health insurance or undermining the political system?
          In any case, it’s better not to answer! laughing
      2. Sergey39 6 February 2020 14: 43 New
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        Yes, in general, a real imitation.
        1. Vladimir B. 6 February 2020 16: 46 New
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          Quote: Sergey39
          Yes, in general, a real imitation.

          Without fundamental changes, Russian medicine may forever lose the opportunity to approach the medicine of European countries.
          1. rocket757 6 February 2020 18: 12 New
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            Quote: Vladimir B.
            Without fundamental changes, Russian medicine may forever lose the opportunity to approach the medicine of European countries.

            HA! Without radical changes, with this SYSTEM, in Russia there may be no people left, and then ......
          2. Lister 7 February 2020 01: 34 New
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            Quote: Vladimir B.
            No major changes

            A fairly large amount is allocated from the budget for medicine, but there are no even slight changes, and it seems that no changes are expected in the near future. And you are talking about fundamental changes ...
      3. Lexus 6 February 2020 14: 44 New
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        Particularly dependent on wealth in the family

        Victor, people with a good income in the family wanted to spit on both the compulsory medical insurance and Russian state medicine as a whole. In insurance medicine, there is a huge niche / hole, the essence of which is that money is added / written off for non-existent diseases, and there are no drugs, procedures, specialists, or the rest for those identified by insurance / benefit (without VHI). And for a fee - always welcome.
        1. rocket757 6 February 2020 15: 10 New
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          Quote: lexus
          people with a good income in the family wanted to spit on both the compulsory medical insurance and Russian state medicine as a whole.

          It's right! But there is one such thing, our employer provides ALL employees with additional VHI, and we have our own polyclinic .... our enterprise is not in poverty.
          It does not save you from all the extra costs, but there is help.
          I already forgot when I went to the polyclinic for the last time through the compulsory medical insurance, BUT my family go, relatives and friends. There are doctors friends, and I perfectly imagine that now everywhere money "rules, benefits" ....
          therefore, I am sure this government is doing something only because it cannot do without us absolutely !!!
          That's all.
          1. AU Ivanov. 6 February 2020 15: 15 New
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            Ideally, all employers should provide their VHI staff. OMS leave only for pensioners, children and the disabled.
            1. Mordvin 3 6 February 2020 15: 23 New
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              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              Ideally, all employers should provide their VHI staff.

              And in real life I don’t care for everyone.
              1. AU Ivanov. 6 February 2020 15: 32 New
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                I, personally, to my employees, draw up the basic VHI. It is not as expensive as it seems.
                1. Mordvin 3 6 February 2020 15: 38 New
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                  Quote: AU Ivanov.
                  basic VHI

                  Four years worked for a bourgeois. What kind of VHI is there ... I didn’t even pay for heating, I stood behind the machine in the cold at minus thirty, steam was smoking from the gloves, and my legs froze ...
                  1. AU Ivanov. 6 February 2020 15: 43 New
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                    You have a bad bourgeois. At the spouse, her office draws up VHI not only for the employee, but also for his children and household members.
                    1. Mordvin 3 6 February 2020 15: 49 New
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                      Quote: AU Ivanov.
                      You have a bad bourgeois.

                      When I asked him: "What is it?" He replied: "Vova, I will go broke if I pay for heating"
                      1. Svarog 6 February 2020 15: 52 New
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                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: AU Ivanov.
                        You have a bad bourgeois.

                        When I asked him: "What is it?" He replied: "Vova, I will go broke if I pay for heating"

                        And this is not a figure of speech .. it is really so .. I have a lot of friends who have their own small enterprises .. they say if everything in our country is legally done .. ZP is white, taxes, etc. .. not that you’ll go broke .. you’ll have to go for life .. these enterprises are all on the brink .. credited on credit .. in general the trouble .. all around .. Now it’s only an official to be profitable .. or sell oil and gas ..
                      2. Dym71 6 February 2020 16: 46 New
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                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        When I asked him: "What is it?" He replied: "Vova, I will go broke if I pay for heating"

                        Welcome hi
                        It was necessary to make him understand that in this case he would go broke with a traumatologist yes
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Dym71 6 February 2020 17: 13 New
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                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Is it any good?

                        With a black sheep even a shred of wool
                        repeat
                      5. Mordvin 3 6 February 2020 17: 18 New
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                        Quote: Dym71
                        With a black sheep even a shred of wool

                        He was our shop manager, then he hit commerce. Something like, in general, steers ...
              2. carstorm 11 6 February 2020 17: 43 New
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                I have the same. VHI for all family members. what does it all spelled out in the contract as an option initially and even questions on this topic have not been raised for 8 years now. it doesn’t even occur to anyone that it can be removed or broken somehow.
              3. 2 Level Advisor 6 February 2020 17: 45 New
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                we divide 2,3 trillion of the fund per year by 145 million citizens = 15862 rubles per person. He got into the VHI — for about the same money, except for dentistry — in the best clinics of the city you’ll get everything, and intensive care and an ambulance, etc. ... everything except dentistry .. and plus, after the death of 2-3 million relatives .. not sure I, that the compulsory medical insurance has a better price-quality ratio .. despite the fact that 80 percent of citizens somehow pay extra money for illness .. but they are not treated in the best clinics for sure ..
                1. 2 Level Advisor 6 February 2020 17: 53 New
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                  go deeper .. from the salary in the compulsory medical insurance 5,1 percent .. let the average salary (as GDP said) 42000 .. total 2142 per month in the compulsory medical insurance .. per year 25704 rubles .. and this is already quite sickly such voluntary medical insurance .. Consider the maximum. .and with dentistry and a limited pharmacy
                  A joke in what .. Yes figs with her with such a system, if I hadn’t had to pay my own almost always .. and even death would not hurt the payment ..
            2. Chervonny 6 February 2020 18: 13 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Four years worked for a bourgeois. What is VHI ...

              How much I work, but for the management to issue VHI, this never happened ... Where did the VHF come from in a private office ... A private trader monitors his expenses and spend an extra penny ... Maybe in large companies it’s different ...
          2. purple 6 February 2020 16: 22 New
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            there’s no sense from VHI, I don’t see problems with compulsory medical insurance, no problem to be accepted, they treat for free
            1. AU Ivanov. 6 February 2020 16: 47 New
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              I would not say that. VHI, even basic, greatly facilitates life. At least the lack of queues for specialists and for examinations.
            2. Vladimir B. 6 February 2020 16: 49 New
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              Looking to which doctor you are making an appointment. If to the therapist - there are no problems, if to the narrow specialist - the record can be in a week. I judge by my clinic.
      4. Nyrobsky 6 February 2020 17: 27 New
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        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        Ideally, all employers should provide their VHI staff. OMS leave only for pensioners, children and the disabled.

        Ideally, everyone should go to the doctor not by compulsory medical insurance and VHI, but by the passport of a citizen of the Russian Federation, throughout Russia at any time of the day or night. Salaries of medical staff should be carried out according to the actual load, depending on the number of patients accepted, operations performed and filling of beds. Paid services should concern only the conditions of stay - either you are in a ward for 2-4-6 people on a common basis, or you are in 1 local ward with a TV set and a refrigerator, but it is paid. This laying in the form of the MHI Fund between the state and the citizen should be removed by the hell of a damn thing. As for paid clinics, to oblige them to perform all the functionality from examination and diagnosis, to full treatment in a hospital with the issuance of a b / sheet. Most of them are stupidly focused on “chopping cabbage” by providing services (analyzes, ultrasound, tomography, etc.) that exclude any responsibility, and sin by imposing additional and unreasonable studies on customers to get more profit. And the same doctors sit in them, who sits in state institutions, sometimes whole family contracts. Only in state. they need a compulsory medical insurance policy, and in a private clinic they no longer need a policy, and they only need money.
        1. rocket757 6 February 2020 18: 10 New
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          To summarize !!! It is better for a working person not to get sick, to preserve their health and MATERIAL POSITION.
          The farther from the capitals and large cities, this desire becomes more and more relevant!
          I can assume that the very, uppermost one does not want this ??? but created by IT, AROUND HIS SYSTEM, otherwise it does not want to work, it will NEVER!
          The question is what to do?
          1. Nyrobsky 6 February 2020 18: 17 New
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            Quote: rocket757
            The question is what to do?

            Do not be sick. hi
            1. rocket757 6 February 2020 18: 33 New
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              It is logical! Well, hello drinks
              1. seregarodionov 7 February 2020 02: 11 New
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                Well! Don't get sick drinks
        2. Chervonny 6 February 2020 18: 17 New
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          Quote: Nyrobsky
          Ideally, everyone should go to the doctor not according to the compulsory medical insurance and VHI, but according to the passport of a citizen of the Russian Federation

          We do not have Soviet power, just to apply to the clinic according to your passport. We still have capitalism!
          1. Lister 7 February 2020 01: 36 New
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            Quote: Red
            We still have capitalism!

            And this means that the main thing is to get more money and pay less laughing
      5. Was mammoth 6 February 2020 18: 13 New
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        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        Ideally, all employers should provide their VHI staff. OMS leave only for pensioners, children and the disabled.

        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        I, personally, to my employees, draw up the basic VHI. It is not as expensive as it seems.

        Well done, if so! It will be read there, maybe here. At least a bourgeois. wink
        Ideally, all medicine should be available to anyone, at least a child, even an old man, even a homeless person.
        As a first step, I propose to allow payment by the compulsory medical insurance card of services in paid medical clinics. wink
        By the way, Skvortsova, who said that they envy us in a new warm place.
        I read recently: "What was not in the Soviet Union? They did not raise money for operations for children."
      6. Krasnodar 6 February 2020 18: 23 New
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        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        Ideally, all employers should provide their VHI staff. OMS leave only for pensioners, children and the disabled.

        We need the good old Bismarck health care system - sickness funds. He has been working in Germany since the late 19th century; he has been working in Israel since the mid-30s (when Jews were called Palestinians laughing ) and these countries are leaders in medical tourism for citizens of the Russian Federation)).
  2. WILL 6 February 2020 15: 14 New
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    Quote: lexus
    Particularly dependent on wealth in the family

    Victor, people with a good income in the family wanted to spit on both the compulsory medical insurance and Russian state medicine as a whole. In insurance medicine, there is a huge niche / hole, the essence of which is that money is added / written off for non-existent diseases, and there are no drugs, procedures, specialists, or the rest for those identified by insurance / benefit (without VHI). And for a fee - always welcome.

    I agree with the first part of your comment, if there is an income, they are treated in Germany or Israel. Healthier, albeit very expensive!
    I do not agree with the second part, a lot depends on the Region. Regions donors - offer better medicine under compulsory medical insurance policies.
    Budgets are different!
    1. Lexus 6 February 2020 15: 53 New
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      Regions donors - offer better medicine under compulsory medical insurance policies.
      Budgets are different!

      But what about Article 19 of the Constitution, which states
      2. State guarantees equal rights and freedoms of man and citizen independently of gender, race, nationality, language, origin, property and official position, living place, attitude to religion, beliefs, affiliation with public associations, as well as other circumstances. Any form of restricting the rights of citizens on the grounds of social, racial, national, linguistic or religious affiliation is prohibited.

      On the side? Or do Moscow and Skovorodino already belong to different countries?
      1. Golovan Jack 6 February 2020 15: 58 New
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        Quote: lexus
        But what about Article 19 of the Constitution

        And she had nothing to do with it. Buddy yes
        1. Lexus 6 February 2020 16: 15 New
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          And she has nothing to do with it.

          Yah? So tell no one else.

          Article 41 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation provides
          1. Everyone has the right to health and medical care. Medical assistance in state and municipal healthcare institutions it is free for citizens at the expense of the relevant budget, insurance premiums, other income.

          и
          Federal Law of November 21.11.2011, 323 N 27.12.2019-ФЗ (as amended on December 13.01.2020, 08.01.2020, as amended on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) "On the Basics of Protecting the Health of Citizens in the Russian Federation" (as amended and additional, entered into force on XNUMX .XNUMX), just in case
          2. Everyone has the right to guaranteed medical care without charge in accordance with the program of state guarantees for the free provision of medical care to citizens, as well as for paid medical services and other services, including in accordance with the voluntary medical insurance contract.
          5. The patient has the right to:
          1) the choice of a doctor and the choice of a medical organization in accordance with this Federal Law;
          2) prevention, diagnosis, treatment, medical rehabilitation in medical organizations in conditions that meet sanitary and hygienic requirements;
          3) obtaining advice from medical specialists;
          4) the relief of pain associated with the disease, condition and (or) medical intervention, methods and drugs, including narcotic drugs and psychotropic drugs;

          Or is it not clear here?
          1. Golovan Jack 6 February 2020 16: 29 New
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            Ek flatters you. There was article 19, now 41 ...

            Mnogobukff, my friend. And there’s little point. As usual, however.

            Under the Constitution, you have the right to free medical care. The scope of this medical care is not stipulated in the Constitution. Everything else is your speculation.

            Quote: lexus
            Federal Law of 21.11.2011 N 323-FZ

            A typical trick of dull trolls is the substitution of a question. You started with

            Quote: lexus
            But what about Article 19 Constitution... on the side?

            Now let's talk about the Constitution.

            I repeat: the Constitution has nothing to do with your Wishlist yes
            1. Lexus 6 February 2020 16: 51 New
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              Any legislative act / legal document, including the Constitution, begins with a statement of the foundations and essence. The following are the articles and paragraphs that disclose the content. And there is also the Rule of Law, according to which all acts contrary to the Constitution are recognized null and void, not enforceable and must be repealed.

              All your writing is just
              Typical Dull Trolls

              There is nothing to talk with you about. Save karma wink
              1. Golovan Jack 6 February 2020 17: 27 New
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                So. I'm starting to worry about you.

                Quote: lexus
                But what about Article 19 of the Constitution ...

                Answer: no way.

                Quote: lexus
                Article 41 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation ...

                Nobody thinks to break it. Help is provided. Exactly

                Quote: lexus
                free of charge from the relevant budget, insurance contributions, other income

                Quote: lexus
                all acts contrary to the Constitution are null and void, must not be enforced and should be repealed

                And where did you see these "acts", a lawyer (and a sweetheart)? laughing
      2. WILL 6 February 2020 16: 03 New
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        And here Moscow and Skovorodino?
        There simply exist Territorial MHIF - which were filled at the expense of the territories in which they are located. Now contributions to TFOMS are canceled and transferred to the Federal MHIF.
        I wrote that - where such an imbalance came from!
        1. Lexus 6 February 2020 16: 32 New
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          And here Moscow and Skovorodino?

          Moreover, infringement of rights on a national and territorial basis is always fertile "ground" for "demarcation." This is when in Moscow and even in a handful of subjects - FAT and grace, and in the rest - total poverty.
          where did such an imbalance come from!

          People whose relatives died due to refusal, untimely or poor-quality medical care do not care if their region is “rich” or “poor” and where the “budget” has gone. All of them are citizens of one country! And they have the same rights! For some reason, there is always enough money for the maintenance of administrative-bureaucratic structures. Strange "state" priorities are looming.
          1. WILL 6 February 2020 16: 42 New
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            How complicated it is with you ... I’m telling you that depending on the region (proven fact), the quality of MHI services is different, and for what reason it happened ... and you tell me about the infringement of rights belay
            Duck and Contributions are now transferred to the Federal MHIF, and from there are distributed by region, which was not before !!!
            What are you arguing about with me?
    2. purple 6 February 2020 16: 23 New
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      Quote: ANIMAL
      I agree with the first part of your comment, if there is an income, they are treated in Germany or Israel. Healthier, albeit very expensive!

      Rave. We are treated no worse ..
      1. WILL 6 February 2020 16: 35 New
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        Quote: purple

        Rave. We are treated no worse ..

        Rave. Did you quote V. Skvortsova’s statement? belay
        1. kapitan92 6 February 2020 16: 59 New
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          Quote: ANIMAL
          Quote: purple

          Rave. We are treated no worse ..

          Rave. Did you quote V. Skvortsova’s statement? belay

          We really treat no worse if you are attached to the 4th Department of the Ministry of Health, to honey. Presidential Administration Office, or Forbes List.
          I wish all members of the forum and their families health, for God forbid, to face a wall of indifference, bribery, rudeness and unprofessionalism of the medical staff of hospitals and clinics in case of a serious illness requiring serious surgery or medication. This is the wall !!! No money - die!
          And the Golikoskvortsovs, this .................., in general, the hand will not flinch!
        2. purple 6 February 2020 17: 10 New
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          Quote: ANIMAL
          Quote: purple

          Rave. We are treated no worse ..

          Rave. Did you quote V. Skvortsova’s statement? belay

          no, it's just that they treat us no worse, and it costs less
          1. Chervonny 6 February 2020 18: 29 New
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            Quote: purple
            they treat us no worse, and it costs less

            It depends on what kind of disease ... Some serious diseases cannot be treated. Yes, and about cheaper ... Again, from your income depends on the diagnosis. My mom is a pensioner, she gets something about 14000 rubles. The doctor prescribes medications for her for 3000 rubles, the rent is about 4500 rubles, for the remainder of 7000 rubles she lives for a month. Okay, I live close to her and am aware of her illnesses and can help her. And if I lived in another area, she would not even say that she was ill so as not to upset me.
      2. Gene84 6 February 2020 17: 07 New
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        Quote: purple
        Rave. We are treated no worse ..

        Is it a bunch of words, or do you really believe that?
        1. purple 6 February 2020 17: 22 New
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          Quote: Gene84
          Quote: purple
          Rave. We are treated no worse ..

          Is it a bunch of words, or do you really believe that?

          I do not believe, I know. Do not look everywhere for one negative, and blaspheme the doctors. For some reason, no one writes about how they helped and cured ... but how can they see a jamb on the whole Internet.
          Do not believe what they write on the Internet.
          1. Gene84 6 February 2020 17: 34 New
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            Quote: purple
            Do not look everywhere for one negative, and blaspheme the doctors

            We probably did not understand each other.
            I did not say anything about doctors ...
            I write about medicine in general. the fact that we have good doctors is a fact!
            the discussion is about the situation in medicine. that you can’t leave everything at this level!
            hence the treatment. we have good doctors, but if something serious, then where are they going to be treated? to Europe.
            and sometimes you come to the clinic to be treated and the diagnosis is not made correctly.
            my friend turned out to be a chickenpox in childhood, but somehow it carried him. and as an adult, he fell ill from his son. came to the clinic and so says sick. I smeared my whole body with zelenka, and smeared with chlorhexidine my face so that it would not be embarrassing to walk along the street. the physician tells him to go get the fluorography. he passed. comes to the reception and she immediately got tuberculosis. and the fact that he was all in green did not bother her. Of course, there was no tuberculosis, but the sediment about our medicine remained.
            1. Lister 7 February 2020 01: 38 New
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              Quote: Gene84
              the diagnosis is not correct

              Incompetence is everywhere, not only in medicine. For example, education is no better.
        2. AU Ivanov. 6 February 2020 18: 31 New
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          It really is. Our medicine is cheaper, and much more. Finns at St. Petersburg dentists are not uncommon, in ophthalmology too.
    3. New Year day 6 February 2020 16: 40 New
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      Quote: ANIMAL
      . Regions donors - offer better medicine under compulsory medical insurance policies.

      What help do regional hospitals are periodically observed on delivered patients. Under the Union, medical personnel were simply dispersed for such a thing and would have been done correctly. Now it’s impossible, there’s no one to work with. Of course, this is not in all regions, but 3-4 of us are constantly celebrated.
      1. WILL 6 February 2020 16: 49 New
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        Sylvester, actually I am writing about it! I think that patients from the regions of the Donors (and there are 13 of them) do not come to you!
        Name these 3-4 regions ... and look, are they subsidized or donors.
  3. Stas157 6 February 2020 16: 27 New
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    Ministry of Health optimization pushes people out of state clinics and hospitals to paid.

    And so it is!

    Just the day before yesterday, the child had a stomachache and diarrhea. Immediately I took him to a paid clinic for examination by a doctor so as not to pour ten sweats in a queue in my free one. The doctor said tests were needed (three tests: shegella, salmonella and rotavirus). And to save on tests, I came to my free clinic. And there they say: it is not possible to pass the first two analyzes, since they do not have a contract. And the third analysis, the direction can be written out at the end of February. And it’s too late.

    So it turns out child is sick, and from my free clinic so nothing and did not get it!
    1. Vladimir B. 6 February 2020 16: 55 New
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      Quote: Stas157
      And to save on tests, I came to my free clinic. And there they say: it is not possible to pass the first two analyzes, since they do not have a contract. And the third analysis, the direction can be written out at the end of February.

      In our polyclinics, doctors immediately say go to any private clinic to take tests, there the equipment is said to be better and newer.
      1. Lexus 6 February 2020 17: 22 New
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        In our polyclinics, doctors immediately say go to any private clinic to take tests, there the equipment is said to be better and newer.

        Moreover, the most expensive and serious tests can often be done exclusively in commercial laboratories, Hemotest and others like them. If you want to live, pay! And the price list there oh oh sickly.
    2. purple 6 February 2020 17: 27 New
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      Quote: Stas157

      And so it is!

      Just the day before yesterday, the child had a stomachache and diarrhea. Immediately I took him to a paid clinic for examination by a doctor so as not to pour ten sweats in a queue in my free one. The doctor said tests were needed (three tests: shegella, salmonella and rotavirus). And to save on tests, I came to my free clinic. And there they say: it is not possible to pass the first two analyzes, since they do not have a contract. And the third analysis, the direction can be written out at the end of February. And it’s too late.

      So the child turns out to be sick, but nothing has been achieved from his free clinic!

      I went to free to save ... so you already decide whether you are paid or free.
      As a result of what we have, in a paid one you took money for an appointment and were sent to take paid tests.
      You would not be sent to these unnecessary tests immediately for free, and you would not have paid for the appointment.
      Well, in general, you were deceived into a paid one, they are always promoted there for extra services.
      Understand that you don’t need this bunch of tests right away.
      1. Stas157 6 February 2020 19: 12 New
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        Quote: purple
        You already decide whether you are paid or free.

        And there, and there it is impossible? Are you against it?
        Quote: purple
        Well, in general, you were deceived in the paid ... you were stupidly paid in the paid

        Are you a doctor or something? Where such confidence?
        A relative works in our paid clinic, and they drove to her. She will not breed.

        But the fact that in a free clinic sometimes you need to beat out tests, I know firsthand.
  • paul3390 6 February 2020 14: 39 New
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    Without problems, you can only get to the therapist.
    Yes schaz !! Here I went foolishly here yesterday to my own clinic, there is a cart hanging, an appointment with the therapist for 2 weeks .. I say women, during this time the client will either recover or die. About communication with the type of specialists - I generally am silent. That's why I go to a paid one - there is not enough health for the district ..
    1. Svarog 6 February 2020 14: 48 New
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      Quote: paul3390
      That's why I go to a paid one - there is not enough health for the district ..

      So the majority does ... who has money .. but when not .. The goal of our liberals is that, slowly, slowly, to replace free medicine with paid medicine ..
      1. paul3390 6 February 2020 14: 51 New
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        Of course. The main task is to annihilate absolutely all the gains of socialism to zero .. Back a century ago in the 19th .. And in fact - it only prevents the loot from the serfs to cut. You came up with it - some kind of social program .. We should not pay taxes, but a tribute. For taxes imply that the government must do something in return, and pay tribute stupidly under the right of the strong .. Without any retaliatory obligations.
        1. Gene84 6 February 2020 17: 12 New
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          Quote: paul3390
          The main task of the capitalists is to annihilate absolutely all the gains of socialism.

          I do not know what the bourgeoisie is guided by in this case, but they have no logic in this matter completely.
      2. Lexus 6 February 2020 14: 56 New
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        So the majority does .. who has money .. but when not ..

        "Go into business" (C) ... or into the next world.
        The goal of our liberals is that, slowly, slowly, to replace free medicine with a paid one ..

        Exactly! good And not only in medicine, but in everything else - to leave exclusively levies for themselves, and to completely spend the costs on citizens. "Sami themselves" (C)
      3. Varyag71 6 February 2020 15: 13 New
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        So they say that ambulance drivers should be self-employed. What the hell is that ?! Under Stalin, this would immediately send everyone to Kolyma, and the organizers to the wall!
        1. Lexus 6 February 2020 15: 45 New
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          So they say that ambulance drivers should be self-employed.

          They will again "hurry" through traffic jams with flashing lights.
      4. Tatyana 6 February 2020 15: 17 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        The goal of our liberals is that, slowly, slowly, to replace free medicine with a paid one ..

        All right you say!
        And then our liberals from ER will tell the people about medical care in Russia:
        - You do not have money for honey service ?! Do not use health care!

        And when the people begin to be treated homegrown on their own, our liberals will even make the sale of dipyrone and its substitutes only according to medical prescriptions!
        1. bk316 6 February 2020 15: 39 New
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          All right you say!

          WHAT IS RIGHT? You are not driving along with a squabbler.
          She's ALREADY PAID. For insurance medicine is paid. With all the "charms" such as limits, quotas and approvals .....
          And VHI or OMI is not about paying .....
          1. Tatyana 6 February 2020 17: 02 New
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            Quote: bk316
            WHAT IS RIGHT? You do not drive in with the squabbler. She IS ALREADY PAID. For insurance medicine is paid. With all the "charms" such as limits, quotas and approvals ..... And VHI or OMS is not about paying .....

            Svarog and I mean something different when we talk about imitating free medicine and completely curtailing free medicine in the country!

            Here is an example.
            About 10 years ago, my relative needed an urgent complex and heavy oncology operation. It was fortunate that a tumor was discovered in her at the end of the year - in December - and she got into quotas for the next year for this type of operation, which ended after 4 months - i.e. in May.
            And what should other patients do in the remaining 8 months of the year if there are no more free quotas for these operations? You have to pay for them!
            I find it difficult to say what the cost of such an operation was at that time (something about 100 rubles) and postoperative medical care only in the hospital itself, but only the hospital bed was then 1500 rubles. per day, and she lay there after surgery 30 days before discharge.
            So count! Not every pensioner will have such "grave" savings. Dying is cheaper than being treated.
            At the same time, when I told my relative that she should not be upset that she was even very lucky that she was in quotas - well, at the same time “she was just born in a shirt” - then she did not understand me, as they did not understand me now with Svarog and you. And even more fortunate for her was that before the illness she had a job at a former state-owned enterprise, that she had not been fired from work for 6 hospital months, until she received a disability. Now she is absolutely healthy and runs like a horse.

            It is noteworthy that a similar problem with the lack of quotas for operations in our city was so acute that the number of quotas after 4 still increased, and they began to suffice about 6-7 months a year.

            Yes, VHI and compulsory health insurance are also essentially paid medical care, but still not at such crazy prices as if medical care had become only paid in the country. This is just a transitional period from free Soviet medicine to paid medicine under capitalism.
            1. Tatyana 6 February 2020 17: 18 New
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              Quote: Tatiana
              I find it difficult to say what the cost of such an operation was at that time (something about 100 rubles).

              I did not have time to correct a typo
              It is written - "100 rubles"
              It should be - "100 thousand rubles."
            2. bk316 6 February 2020 18: 13 New
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              Here is an example.

              About quotas for high-tech treatment, and this is not only oncology but also almost all surgery (an example on my profile picture is my knee laughing ) Quotas are determined not so much by budget opportunities as by production capacities of hospitals, this means WHAT AND FOR MONEY THIS TREATMENT IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION WILL NOT BE RECEIVED (there are exceptions but these are exceptions).
              This problem was in full swing in the USSR, and especially in the 90s, they simply didn’t monetize it, and people were quietly dying, like my mother ..... There was no chance of getting it beyond the hill, which now exists, there was no chance of paying and receiving treatment. But in closed institutions there were always enough beds and doctors for the nomenclature of beds, only ordinary people were not supposed to know about it ...

              Regarding the receipt of specific quotas, I already wrote about the mess, but I and my mother-in-law received quotas for complex operations with osteoplasty, and 2 of my close friends received sten absolutely free, and now my employees are treated for oncology by their parents, also for free. Geography is the widest.
              And about the transfer of my salary, under a million people have already been transferred to this fund over the past years. And besides that operation I have everything according to VHI ....
              1. Tatyana 6 February 2020 19: 05 New
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                Quote: bk316
                Quotas are determined not so much by budgetary opportunities as by production capacities of hospitals, this means WHAT AND FOR MONEY THIS TREATMENT IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION WILL NOT BE RECEIVED (there are exceptions but these are exceptions). This problem was also in the USSR to its full extent, and especially in the 90s they just didn’t monetize it, and people quietly died, like my mother .....

                Under Gorbachev and Yeltsin, hospitals in our city generally stood empty - without patients. When my non-walking mother with my big fight was given a place for her hospitalization in a hospital for examination, then there was only one patient about the separation of the 5 4-bed wards of this hospital and here is my mother.
                I was surprised to think that the so-called "shift change", as in the pioneer camp. And to my question to the doctor, why is it so empty in their department, the doctor answered: "And we have been doing this for a long time! It's just that the population is healthy! No one is sick - everyone is healthy!"

                But in fact, our clinic sang with an insurance company that served our clinic, and all the money saved from almost total non-care of patients in hospitals, the management of the clinic and the management of the insurance company simply plundered!
                And almost all the medical staff of our clinic participated in this behind the scenes!
              2. Svarog 6 February 2020 19: 15 New
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                Quote: bk316

                Regarding the receipt of specific quotas, I already wrote about the mess, however, I and my mother-in-law received quotas for complex operations with osteoplasty, and 2 of my close friends received sten absolutely free, and now my employees are treated for oncology by their parents, also free

                It’s not even a matter of complicated operations .. My mother-in-law discovered oncology .. the intestines, the operation is not very complicated .. nevertheless, they queued up in two months .. Imagine how it feels to sit for two months in anticipation and think about metastases all this time . The issue was resolved quickly through the head physician, for 15 thousand rubles .. Two days later they operated on. That's all the quotas.
                1. bk316 7 February 2020 11: 55 New
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                  The issue was resolved quickly through the head physician, for 15 thousand rubles .. Two days later they operated on. That's all the quotas.

                  You are lucky. And when a complex Mesi operation is really not enough. Have you ever been to the RCSC? People in the corridors are lying. B for a bribe also put in the corridor.
                  But in general, your case is not typical. I often communicate with surgeons. Well, they don’t take bribes. They will not refuse gratitude, but the conditions you pay, I operate ON NEVER. However, in the regions, maybe they are overgrown ....
                  1. Svarog 7 February 2020 21: 44 New
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                    Quote: bk316
                    However, in the regions, maybe they are overgrown ....

                    Of course we are talking about regions .. Naberezhnye Chelny. He lived in Moscow for five years. There, yes, you will not find fault .. For two weeks, a full examination was carried out with FGDS including ..
        2. Gardamir 6 February 2020 16: 22 New
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          Establish a tax on the collection of willow bark.
    2. Sergey Olegovich 6 February 2020 15: 57 New
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      +13
      Quote: paul3390
      I went here a while ago foolishly in my own clinic

      In the middle of last month, an incomprehensible bump popped up on my back and it hurts, not very much, but unpleasantly. I decided to make an appointment with the surgeon through public services, but I couldn’t make an appointment because of a “no entry”. I’m calling the registry and asking me to make an appointment, in response I heard the following: “our surgeon quit, and the second he is coming, he has been receiving only two hours, there is no appointment for this week.” As a result, I had to go to a paid clinic and pay for showing bumps on my back. I'm certainly not poor, but there’s no extra money either. So somehow ...
      1. Lister 7 February 2020 01: 41 New
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        +2
        Quote: Sergey Olegovich
        no extra money either

        No one has extra money.
        But jokes are bad with health.
    3. purple 6 February 2020 16: 25 New
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      sign up through public services, there is no queue. Well, if in a paid hunt ... it's up to you, but understand one simple thing, the same doctors are there as in the free clinic. In paid they have a part-time job
      1. paul3390 6 February 2020 17: 02 New
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        I go to the departmental subway clinic for a fee. All the doctors are there .. And not bad.
        1. purple 6 February 2020 17: 29 New
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          Quote: paul3390
          to the departmental subway clinic.

          Departmental is completely different, it’s not a shortage from the street, there the compulsory medical insurance also works in general
  • Chaldon48 6 February 2020 17: 42 New
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    Well, you got to see a therapist, sat and talked "for life." Do you feel better? Then what? Next, you need to go at best to buy medicines, the doctor will not give you anything, although the clinic for a free distribution of them a certain amount is allocated, but it’s all to yourself or your family and that will remain friends.
  • vadimtt 6 February 2020 22: 08 New
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    Svarog, a relatively recent example that refutes your thesis (or maybe vice versa, because there are exceptions everywhere):
    This summer I managed to decompose on a highway bike at high speed. And my strong bones (not a single fracture in 48 years) came to me sideways - instead of a broken collarbone, I ran into a complete rupture of all the acromial ligaments of the shoulder and a partial rupture of the anterior clavicular-sternal ligament, which is tin from the point of view of sports (and doctors too).
    As a result, he himself reached the emergency room, received a referral to the hospital and was operated on there with the installation of a hook-shaped titanium plate. All by compulsory medical insurance! Even the plate. So not everything is so bad. Especially considering that when I got into the operating room I felt like an astronaut, it was so cool equipped. Well, an anesthetist with a specific sense of humor was attached laughing
    Now I’ve almost recovered, I constantly ride a bicycle (both on the machine, when the weather is bad, and around the city). In the summer I will take out a plate. Although I don’t know here - by compulsory medical insurance or for money.
  • Aleksandre 6 February 2020 14: 22 New
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    A resource-consuming gasket will always be superfluous.
  • kepmor 6 February 2020 14: 30 New
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    +8
    “Compulsory health insurance in Russia: real health insurance or its imitation" ....
    it’s strange somehow to even hear such a thing ... even if the SAM itself had recognized the other day that in healthcare we have a complete kirdyk ..
  • Strashila 6 February 2020 14: 33 New
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    There is the Ministry of Health, there is an endpoint, a medical institution, and an intermediate link is inserted between them, which, in fact, is not responsible for anything, but disposes !!! state !! money.
    The Ministry of Health should be directly responsible for compulsory medical care, delegate duplication of its activities to the MHIF at various levels, this is an additional expenditure on the “fifth” wheel, which controls it, which is beneficial for the patient.
    Health insurance funds should only be responsible for commercial insurance.
    1. Svarog 6 February 2020 14: 36 New
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      Quote: Strashila
      Health insurance funds should only be responsible for commercial insurance.

      It is right. But the problem is much wider .. There are simply not enough specialists .. And the level of many is not high ..
      I have a friend for a while, I wanted to open a paid clinic .. and what impressed me, it turns out there is an apparatus that determines many diseases by blood ... and a short period of time. That’s why not start the examination with blood donation? and the second point, everything is computerized everywhere, except for hospitals, why cards are still on paper, is it really not possible to convert everything into electronic form
      1. Strashila 6 February 2020 14: 41 New
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        “There are simply not enough specialists,” how to cut the budget of specialists is enough, how to work, then there’s no one.
        1. Lexus 6 February 2020 15: 00 New
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          “There are simply not enough specialists,” how to cut the budget of specialists is enough, how to work, then there’s no one.

          They do not have enough conscience, even one can’t scrape together all of them. The rest are only derivatives of this loss.
        2. Aleksandre 6 February 2020 16: 15 New
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          It must be that at the same VO you have repeatedly managed to meet "specialists around the world" who are in deep ecstasy from a sense of their own, in no way immeasurable intelligence and omniscience. So, do you really think that here, in VO, they are for free, and in circles where you can raise real money it is important to puff up your cheeks and not answer for anything - they are not? This is a common problem: there are many advisers - few know.
          1. Strashila 6 February 2020 17: 51 New
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            “This is a common problem: there are many advisers - few know.” To know this does not mean knowing how to work.
      2. Lannan Shi 6 February 2020 15: 13 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        and the second point, everything is computerized everywhere, except for hospitals, why cards are still on paper, is it really not possible to convert everything into electronic form

        Haha. You simply did not face how it will be after computerization. Two weeks ago, a grandmother drove a neighbor to the tooth, where everything is computerized. A conversation in the registry.
        - Have you recorded?
        - Honey, here I am.
        - You must make an appointment by phone (whose number can be obtained at the reception lol ) or via the Internet. (grandmother without a 90 year old. She is of course a pro hacker, the Pentagon server breaks at a time that she should go through Internet registration)
        “And how now?”
        - There is a registration apparatus, sign up through it.
        Record in the apparatus for the day after tomorrow. Yeah. And the granny from pain only does not climb the wall. I had to use life-giving bills. Neighbors after all. Let's count.
        So ... God forbid from computerization. I don’t care, With state medicine they finally went on board. But the old people will die out quickly and efficiently.
        1. Svarog 6 February 2020 15: 22 New
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          Quote: Lannan Shi
          Haha. You just haven't come across

          I’m not a little about that .. I’m about that the medical history should have been in electronic form for a long time .. now, in the old fashioned way, the leaves are pasted into the card .. then they lose the card ..
          And it is also desirable that everyone had the result of an analysis for genetic diseases .. this analysis is taken from infants .. but the data is not reported to anyone ..
          1. bk316 6 February 2020 15: 55 New
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            I’m not a little about that .. I’m about that the medical history should have been in electronic form for a long time .. now, in the old fashioned way, the leaves are pasted into the card .. then they lose the card ..

            I don’t know, I don’t know, in my polyclinic it’s been electronic for 10 years.
            There is another trick, for example, about surgeons - they must write on paper according to the LAW. In fact, they write 2 times on a computer and on paper.
            About analyzes - by law they have no right not to report ....
            1. Svarog 6 February 2020 19: 20 New
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              Quote: bk316
              About analyzes - by law they have no right not to report ....

              Do you really believe that all the laws are being followed. Do not believe me, ask any friend who recently gave birth. You will be confirmed one hundred percent. Five years ago, my youngest daughter was born, my tests were taken, but they did not give a conclusion. A year ago, he became a grandfather, the eldest daughter gave birth, everything is exactly the same. Here the forum users on the site also confirmed this.
              1. bk316 7 February 2020 14: 19 New
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                Five years ago, my youngest daughter was born, tests were taken, but they did not give a conclusion

                Have you demanded it? Calmly in writing with references to the law?
                1. Svarog 7 February 2020 21: 46 New
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                  Quote: bk316
                  Five years ago, my youngest daughter was born, tests were taken, but they did not give a conclusion

                  Have you demanded it? Calmly in writing with references to the law?

                  No, of course I didn’t. Actually, I asked this question recently ... When I found out that the United States was collecting Russian genetic material ..
          2. purple 6 February 2020 17: 30 New
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            Quote: Svarog
            I’m not a little about that .. I’m about that the medical history should have been in electronic form for a long time .. now, in the old fashioned way, the leaves are pasted into the card .. then they lose the card ..

            This has not happened for a long time, all the stories are in electronic form ... Did you yesterday from the tundra chtoli?
        2. Mordvin 3 6 February 2020 15: 28 New
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          Quote: Lannan Shi
          Have you recorded?
          - Honey, here I am.

          Somehow I was late for 2 minutes in a gear jerk, sat down on a small bench, so the doctors raised me: "Are you so white?"
          1. Lannan Shi 6 February 2020 15: 48 New
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            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            so the doctors raised me: "Are you so white?"

            And I don’t smear everyone’s dirt. For example, the doctor who removed the bridge, was tormented with his grandmother as I don’t know who. I don’t understand the essence of the problem, teeth, pah pah, by nature, ideally. I just caught some glue planted, which should not have been done. About 40 minutes fiddling with her. And I tried to put on the collar that he (really, unnecessarily, just in gratitude that I gave everything in full) wrapped up with the words - pimp the child with fruits. Although I’m not close to the needy.
            But the system itself is rotten. An old woman dying of pain either humble herself and beg, with an unpredictable result, by the way, or use a money with a predictable result.
      3. polar fox 6 February 2020 15: 44 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        I have a friend at one time, I wanted to open a paid clinic ..

        I have a doctor with my wife who opened a doctor’s office ... it thrives when my wife and I receive a pension ... taxes are levied on renting everything and the obligatory pokatushki to mask up for "continuing education" regularly ... manual therapist (formerly a surgeon traumatologist) is an amazing specialist ... yes, and without any advertising, he puts old people on their feet, and very often for thanks.
      4. Narak-zempo 6 February 2020 17: 09 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        everything is computerized everywhere, except for hospitals, why cards are still on paper, is it really not possible to translate everything into electronic form

        Because real computerization, not profanity, costs a lot of money, of which buying iron may not be the biggest expense.
      5. Krasnodar 6 February 2020 18: 30 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: Strashila
        Health insurance funds should only be responsible for commercial insurance.

        It is right. But the problem is much wider .. There are simply not enough specialists .. And the level of many is not high ..
        I have a friend for a while, I wanted to open a paid clinic .. and what impressed me, it turns out there is an apparatus that determines many diseases by blood ... and a short period of time. That’s why not start the examination with blood donation? and the second point, everything is computerized everywhere, except for hospitals, why cards are still on paper, is it really not possible to convert everything into electronic form

        Does not determine the disease - an ordinary detailed analysis + biochemistry. Detects malfunctioning of the liver, kidneys, etc.
  • Lamata 6 February 2020 14: 34 New
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    I couldn’t get to the neuro.path.log as I could for 2 months, turn. And paid, not only can doctors come in, but the quality is terribly poor
  • AB
    AB 6 February 2020 14: 52 New
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    Compulsory health insurance in Russia: real health insurance or its imitation

    To the naive title of the article, no less naive question - And in modern Russia, at least sometime in 30 years, was there normal normal free medicine?
    1. Sancho_SP 6 February 2020 14: 59 New
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      А normal - is it like in Switzerland, like in the USA, like in DPRK or like in Zimbabwe?
    2. paul3390 6 February 2020 15: 07 New
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      normal free medicine
      Why is she free? Actually, we are regularly taxed on it ..
  • prior 6 February 2020 14: 56 New
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    "The existing regulatory framework" - this is where the real imitation .....
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Tiksi-3 6 February 2020 16: 02 New
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      Quote: VO Administrator
      In the case of medicine in our country, the commander is not to blame!

      And not only with medicine ..... with all the processes taking place in the native country, - the general director and founder, who are the president and the government, answer !!
  • Sancho_SP 6 February 2020 14: 58 New
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    Compulsory medical insurance works at the level how much they pay on average.

    If a family of six people (husband, wife, two children, a couple of old pensioners - such statistics in Russia) work two, then with an average salary of 35 thousand per month, it turns out:

    (35 thousand rubles multiplied by two employees divided by six consumers of services) and of all this, contributions for mandatory medical insurance account for 5% (contribution for mandatory medical insurance)

    It turns out that something like 600 rubles per person per month. 7 per year. 200 thousand in 468 years.

    And now we’ll think about whether 468 thousand rubles will be enough to pay for all human health services for life. The answer, I think, is clear.
  • Strashila 6 February 2020 15: 26 New
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    By what they strive for paid medicine, so long as it comes to the lower level of doctors, nurses, nurse, money is not clear where it dissolves. Although judging by the tax returns of officials and their families, it’s clear and understandable where.
    So actually frank requisitions supported by the same state are arranged.
  • polar fox 6 February 2020 15: 38 New
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    the patient was faced with a choice: either wait for the line for surgery in the hospital, or pay for urgency.
    three such cases over the past year from friends and relatives ... one really, it seemed that they were waiting for the flippers to wrap ... kicked at clinics and "specialists", 3 times they underwent a bypass operation for a couple of months ... did alive for now.
  • Dmitry V. 6 February 2020 15: 43 New
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    A very true remark - we do not have free medical care - all officially employed, pay monthly MHIF, even if they do not get sick.
    More precisely, the employer withholds 5,1% from the employee’s salary and transfers it to the MHIF.

    With what efficiency, or rather inefficiency, these funds are spent, everyone can feel for themselves.
    My father dies of lymphocytic leukemia - goes out for a year and a half and doesn’t get up, and we don’t have a hematologist in the area (the region is in the city with a million-plus population) - the doctors are leaving, no one agrees to work at the rate that they offer.
    The last doctor worked - a young girl with scanty experience, worked at once at three rates in different medical institutions - left in the end, could not stand such a schedule.

    We take an appointment to another district - we need to run around to get a direction, assure it of the manager - make an appointment 2 weeks in advance - go to the clinic about 15 km for the direction - thank God the district doctor began to bring.

    Entrance to the hospital and parking are limited; walking to the building is far away. When the father could no longer walk, he began to go alone with his tests to the doctor.
    All one thing - the next pill of chemistry of the father is killed and I doubt that this year will last.

    And they don’t seem to refuse help, and the doctors are wonderful and are improving, they are studying, and even some chemotherapy pills were sent for free, but why in Japan they support chiroscopic people with lymphocytic leukemia for up to 90 years and longer, and this is our sentence :(

    And no matter what they say about our medicine, everything is relative.

    The cost of medicine in the Russian Federation as a percentage is 5 times lower than in the United States.
  • bk316 6 February 2020 15: 48 New
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    1. You have dear readers in your head porridge. We have ALREADY paid medicine. The insurance scheme has a paid scheme. And deductions to the insurance fund are actually our money, and voluntary or mandatory is not so important. By the way, very often you are openly fooled when they try to tear off money, and they are often fooled by VHI more often. Only on compulsory medical insurance you are fooled by employees of the clinic and by VHI insurance employees.
    2. The system of course works, BUT it works with a specific mess. A person who does not know how to get a normal dental filling is unrealistic. To a person who understands both the heart valve and the artificial joint without problems. So of course it should not be.
    3. On top of the mess financing system itself, a management system is added, in particular a medical personnel management system. Here we just have trouble. These efficiencies at the time of admission or these ABSOLUTELY illiterate aunts who stay until retirement in clinics at the expense of our health. This must be changed urgently; for this, no new laws are needed; a normal minister is needed.
    4.Medicine will be only insurance and insurance will be expensive, otherwise it cannot be under capitalism.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ZaharoFF 6 February 2020 16: 16 New
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    Imitation is unambiguous. There are no funds / places / specialists / medicines, etc. for the necessary medical care. For that, huge funds are allocated for fabulous and unprecedented diseases. Of course, one cannot say that everything is bad directly - this is not true. But the fact that private clinics will finally squeeze out state ones is obvious - it is a matter of time if nothing changes, and, of course, first of all, it depends on the family budget.
  • New Year day 6 February 2020 16: 30 New
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    Insurance companies are a gap between the budget and health facilities that do nothing to improve medical care. Take them away and nothing will change for the worse. They will steal less from the budget, there will again be less parasites. For the patient, nothing will change either, because insurance companies do not give a damn about their problems. 3-level medical care-nonsense. Level 1 will always be staffed with bad doctors, because working there is simply not interesting.
  • fa2998 6 February 2020 17: 16 New
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    [/ Quote]
    Rave. We are treated no worse .. [/ quote]
    This is definitely nonsense! It may be nice to treat those with a rank (for example, secrecy) that CANNOT be treated abroad. The rest with prosperity, which are released halfway over the hill. And relatives, even give birth there. hi
  • Buntovshik 6 February 2020 17: 24 New
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    Doctors, as well as teachers in Russia, were simply persecuted .. And they are beaten and criminal cases started, etc. They must be protected first, because in the days of the USSR, the profession of a doctor and teacher was very respected, it was sacred ..
    And to whom have the liberals turned them now? I quote them "providing services of education and medical care .." .. This is supposedly lackeys ..
    Here it is not necessary to raise salaries (although this is very important too), but the prestige of the profession to educate and save people ..
    I know these areas well that hospitals (have been treated for a long time), that the teacher’s wife is a school .. ..
    1. purple 6 February 2020 17: 39 New
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      Quote: Rebel
      Doctors, as well as teachers in Russia, were simply persecuted .. And they are beaten and criminal cases started, etc. They must be protected first, because in the days of the USSR, the profession of a doctor and teacher was very respected, it was sacred ..
      And to whom have the liberals turned them now? I quote them "providing services of education and medical care .." .. This is supposedly lackeys ..
      Here it is not necessary to raise salaries (although this is very important too), but the prestige of the profession to educate and save people ..
      I know these areas well that hospitals (have been treated for a long time), that the teacher’s wife is a school .. ..

      Plyusan ... And then there is only one negative for doctors.
  • purple 6 February 2020 17: 34 New
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    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    You have a bad bourgeois. At the spouse, her office draws up VHI not only for the employee, but also for his children and household members.

    VHI is needed to treat teeth ... and so it is not needed.
  • purple 6 February 2020 17: 38 New
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    Quote: polar fox
    chiropractor (formerly a trauma surgeon) is an amazing specialist ..

    the words manual therapy are like a homeopath ... only laughter causes.
    If there was a good trauma surgeon, I would never have left surgery ...
    mediocrity usually go into "manual therapy" laughing chop dough with foolish people ... the same thing as homeopaths
    1. polar fox 6 February 2020 18: 27 New
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      Quote: purple
      the words manual therapy are like a homeopath ... only laughter causes.

      laugh, dear. when people come to him in wheelchairs and leave on their own feet, this must be understood. but "respected" is not given. The brain, the parents didn’t set off when they did.
    2. AU Ivanov. 6 February 2020 18: 43 New
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      You are in vain. My brother's vertebrologist-manualist was put on his feet, without surgical intervention. But this bird is rare.
  • purple 6 February 2020 17: 41 New
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    Quote: fa2998
    The rest with prosperity, which are released halfway over the hill. And loved ones even give birth there.

    Well, it’s from a little mind ... well, yes, they burn the money for a baby, Oh, about giving birth ... I generally neighing. Previously, in the field they gave birth and nothing ... Where are you from? Identity over the hill?
  • purple 6 February 2020 17: 44 New
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    Quote: ZaharoFFFF
    But the fact that private clinics will finally squeeze out state ones is obviously a matter of time

    this will never happen. Private clinic aims not to treat, but to cut the dough. They will not be associated with serious diseases, it’s difficult too, their element is to take the patient, vparit bunch of unnecessary tests, then find nonexistent diseases, and then treat them for a long time
    1. ANB
      ANB 7 February 2020 01: 32 New
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      Private traders will not replace the state. The nearest time is for sure.
      My daughter had bronchitis, were treated in a private clinic. The antibiotic did not help, she refused to continue treatment. Sent for hospitalization. At the Central Hospital, the doctor on duty examined, prescribed a new antibiotic and sent him home (he did not refuse to be hospitalized and did not take the money). 2 days and everything is already ok, we just finish inhalations.
  • purple 6 February 2020 17: 46 New
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    Quote: Narak-zempo
    Quote: Svarog
    everything is computerized everywhere, except for hospitals, why cards are still on paper, is it really not possible to translate everything into electronic form

    Because real computerization, not profanity, costs a lot of money, of which buying iron may not be the biggest expense.

    Another ikpert ... For a long time, everything has been in electronic form! understand at last!
  • Shahno 6 February 2020 18: 17 New
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    Quote: rocket757
    Quote: Vladimir B.
    Without fundamental changes, Russian medicine may forever lose the opportunity to approach the medicine of European countries.

    HA! Without radical changes, with this SYSTEM, in Russia there may be no people left, and then ......

    Why do you need to approach European standards. This is more in the plane of economics and finance.
  • purple 6 February 2020 18: 38 New
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    Quote: polar fox
    Quote: purple
    the words manual therapy are like a homeopath ... only laughter causes.

    laugh, dear. when people come to him in wheelchairs and leave on their own feet, this must be understood. but "respected" is not given. The brain, the parents didn’t set off when they did.

    Well, yes, when there’s nothing to say, the transition to personalities begins .... I arrived on a stroller and walked on foot .. laughing
  • Rostislav 6 February 2020 20: 52 New
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    People ceased to feel where the state insured their life and health, and where its imitation covered the greed of the administrations of medical institutions. Perhaps the increase in the budget of the compulsory medical insurance fund will help to approach this urgent problem.

    Will not help. They tried it. The administration of medical institutions will no longer come off this gold mine.
  • Graz 6 February 2020 22: 03 New
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    I would say Oms is a half solution
  • Campanella 7 February 2020 01: 03 New
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    The main thing is that the fourth one works without changes and the presidential and other corps receive their clysters in the right amount, when they need it and for free. Well, no one promised the people a bright future on the road to capitalism. Now they will tweak the constitution for themselves and will wait for them to be raised on the forks. It is not clear what the president suddenly remembered about medicine? When she was figurized at his direction, he slept quietly and was not even interested in how she was going! And what kind of president is he in the red army? Lakes Corporation?
  • ANB
    ANB 7 February 2020 01: 26 New
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    Insurance medicine is a step backward compared to Soviet medicine.
    Just added more intermediaries. And since they eat away their share, then the medicine gets even less money.
    Well, the goal of medicine under socialism was the health of the population, and now - making money. It has always been like this in cap countries, now we have come to this.
  • Begemot 12 February 2020 15: 08 New
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    For the first time in many decades in October 2019, there was a reason to turn to doctors for a serious reason.
    Gallbladder removal. Preliminary examinations, studies in a private clinic, the operation itself in a public hospital. Everything is paid by VHI and just in cash.
    Although, for some reason, they asked for an MHI policy. Impressions: In a private clinic, they found another million diseases and were ready to treat them until they were completely victorious, the state hospital left the impression that they just worked out the paid operation and let's go bye, even sent me to the hospital to go to the doctor who was the first to see me He will see and must make a decision about my recovery. Those are just a vacuum cleaner (money cleaner) and the complete erosion of any responsibility. By the way, it turned out to be so problematic to get an appointment at the place of residence that you just had to wave your hand at almost 15000 sick leaves and write a statement at your own expense. So when Putin publicly grunted Skvortsov for the collapse of the primary link, I felt some pleasure, although I am not a sadist and I understand that Skvortsova herself is a pawn in this game, but over the years of the ministry I could have noticed that her kingdom is a mess.
  • Evgeny Suslin 13 February 2020 11: 09 New
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    It is practically impossible to enroll in a specialist at a polyclinic. First, make an appointment with the therapist, he will look at the schedule of the narrow specialization in the computer and, with any luck, will make an appointment at best in two months. So the whole point of treatment for compulsory medical insurance is completely discredited. And the necessary doctor with pleasure conducts an appointment at this time in a private clinic, regardless of the processing (in time).