The first frigate with all-Russian engines will be launched in summer

The first serial frigate of project 22350 Admiral Kasatonov

The first frigate of project 22350 Admiral Golovko with an all-Russian power plant will be launched this summer. This was reported by TASS with reference to the CEO of Severnaya Verf shipyard Igor Ponomarev.

According to the publication, a completely Russian power plant will be installed on the frigate under construction, in which Ukrainian components will not be used. Currently, the new engine has already been manufactured and delivered to the enterprise for installation on the ship.

The gas turbine engine for the Admiral Golovko frigate was manufactured and delivered to the Severnaya Verf shipyard. PJSC Zvezda is currently testing the gearbox, the results of which will test the entire power unit of the ship - gas turbine and diesel engines and gearbox

- stated in the United Engine Corporation (UEC)

Recall that on the main and first production frigates of project 22350 - Admiral Gorshkov and Admiral Kasatonov - Russian-made diesel engines are installed, but gas-turbine units (GTU) manufactured by the Ukrainian company Zorya-Mashproekt are used as afterburners. At the "Admiral Golovko" will be installed domestic analogue of the Ukrainian gas turbine.

Recall that according to open information, the main power plant of frigates of project 22350 is a gas turbine engine with a total capacity of 65 thousand liters. from. and diesel generators with a total capacity of 4 thousand kW.

Comments

[seti]

We have been waiting for a long time, good luck. I understand that the problem with the gearbox finally finally and successfully managed to solve.

[seti]

I would very much like to read an article on domestic and similar foreign power plants of the gas turbine engine. Technical specifications assess disadvantages and advantages. Often you can hear that in the West everything is buzzing well, and we are somewhere behind ... Is this true and if not so, how are things going.
I would like to know what the NPO Saturn plant is and how it is developing now.

[alexmach]

On the one hand, the news is positive, but the layman doesn’t understand something else for me whether there are any mutually exclusive statements in the quote.

The gas turbine engine for the frigate "Admiral Golovko" was manufactured and delivered to the "Severnaya Verf"

And it’s kind of great, but then ...

PJSC "Zvezda" is currently testing the gearbox, the results of which will be used to test the entire power unit of the ship - gas turbine and diesel engines and gearbox

Are they separately testing this gearbox from engines or something? As I understand it, either the entire unit is assembled at the stand and tested, how then can a gas turbine engine be delivered to the Northern Shipyard?

[Olgovich]

Quote: alexmach

They him what separately experience this gearbox from engines or what? As I understand it, either the entire unit is assembled at the stand and tested, how then can a gas turbine engine be delivered to the Northern Shipyard?

just like this: at first separate parts of the ship’s control system are tested, then, after successful testing of the components, they will test the control system in the complex.

GTE has already been tested and delivered to the factory, diesel engines, as is clear, too. Now they will test the gearbox and then the complex tests of the assembled SU. Everything is logical.

[alexmach]

GTE has already been tested and delivered to the factory, diesel engines, as is clear, too. Now they will test the gearbox and then the complex tests of the assembled SU. Everything is logical. hi

What is logical then? Complex tests of the assembly assembly must not pass on the same stand Stars? Why then are the engines delivered to the North Shipyard?

[Alex777]

When nonsense is in the head, then nonsense is in the affairs.
Nothing for SV engines to do before assembly tests on the Star. IMHO.

[alexmach]

Well, there is still another option that the nonsense in the minds of journalists who issued this article.

[Alex777]

Actually, I’m talking about the same thing.

[seregatara1969]

So the size of the motor is such that the motor comes to the shipyard in parts. And it takes on a whole look already in place. In general, it is not easy to experience

[alexmach]

But at least how he didn’t come to the shipyard, what should he do there until the completion of bench tests? And how to conduct these bench tests of a gearbox without a gas turbine engine? Maybe of course I don’t understand what, or publication, like 90% of them, casts a shadow on the fence

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: alexmach

Maybe of course I don’t understand what,

Apparently, staying in the Baltics did not benefit you ... but you assured me that it was good there !!!

[alexmach]

Nothing to say on the topic? So they would be silent, you look at the clever would come down.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: alexmach

Nothing to say on the topic? So they would be silent, you look at the clever would come down.

you didn’t keep silent, although in fact there was nothing to say !!!

[alexmach]

I asked a question. In fact. And I would advise you to be silent. I am not at all interested in taking part in a completely fruitless conversation with the Wammies, as well as enduring your insolence and attempts to insult. And vryatli to someone it will be interesting to read.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: alexmach

I asked a question. In fact.

and I wrote a statement .. in fact !!

[alexmach]

You wrote an empty flood and went personal. It's stupid and rude. What was there in essence in your "statement" I find it difficult to find.

[From Siberia we]

don't know don't write

[vladcub]

The question is what is called the point. It would be great if someone writes such an article.
We have a shortage of materials on this topic, and reporters in the media write such nonsense that at least stop falling. Or: "chef, the mustache is gone. The plaster cast will be removed tomorrow" or: "all is well beautiful marquise"

[bayard]

Quote: vladcub

It would be great if someone writes such an article

This question is for Aristarkh Ludwigovich - he has a dock on this topic with us, he even laid out photo reports on the stages of assembly of the first gearboxes. From half a year ago, he stated that we learn about the results of success / failure this summer - after the descent of the first-born from the domestic power plant and its sea trials. Only after that it will be possible to say that the problem with domestic power plants has been resolved.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: seti

I understand that the problem with the gearbox finally finally and successfully managed to solve.

if you decide, you should immediately see Isakov’s descent and the speed of construction of the next two Amelko and Chichagov.

[hydrox]

Wait a minute, let it first go to sea trials and acceptance tests, only after that we can talk about the timing of the revival of the two remaining frigates ...
Isakov will have to wait too :: no one has canceled childhood diseases at pioneering developments, they still have to be caught and treated ...

[nickname7]

let it first go to sea and acceptance tests, only after that

Yes, only after that. For example, the second British aircraft carrier, not yet put into operation, it only completed sea trials

[TermNachTer]

Well, that’s where the Banderasts are played out. China no longer needs them, the Indians will soon also switch to their engines, and these GTUs themselves are not needed by the Banderland itself. A few thousand more people thrown into the street. However, Nikolaev is no stranger, already more than half of shipbuilders work in Polish shipyards, as well as from neighboring Kherson.

[bayard]

This is an extremely erroneous opinion. The Nikolaev "Banderists" feel quite well and are loaded with Chinese orders up to their ears - they plow in 2 - 3 shifts. What has ensured such a rate of shipbuilding in China in recent years. At their own capacities alone, they would have had rates two times lower.
And if we took Nikolaev and Odessa in 2014, then our shipyards would have shown the pace at least half of the Chinese.
... And if they took Kharkiv and Kiev, the Ruslans and An-70 would already be in serial production.
Now, according to the precepts of Comrade Stalin, it remains to build its own economy based on its own forces. It’s difficult, but necessary.

[TermNachTer]

Unlike you, I live in Ukraine. In Nikolaev, relatives are aware of what is going on there. The Chinese bought everything they need back in the 90s, so they are now fully provided with their gas turbine engines, there may be problems with quality, but not with quantity. The Indians, too, are already setting up a release at home. "Zarya" breathes every other time, is interrupted by one-off orders, repairs, and some things are "leftist" going to Russia. They, like "Motor", have several years to live, if the situation does not change.

[bayard]

If your words are true, then it means we were misled about the workload of Nikolaev. It happens .
But they did not take it in 2014, all in vain. Everything would work at full load.
And I, unlike you, live in Donetsk.

[hydrox]

Bear with it a little more: with Surkov’s dismissal from your affairs, Kozak should be better off and I think that by the summer the Ukrainian authorities will go crazy and decide on serious provocations against you - then everything will begin (I think, after the sowing, when it dries) .
At least already in March-April, after the failure in the Norman format, the Americans will have to begin to manage the affairs of the LDNR by the Kiev authorities ...

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: hydrox

with the dismissal from your affairs Surkov Kozak should be better at

and this is why such conclusions ??? if by ear, then by the same rumors Surkov is much more radical in solving problems than Kozak !!!

"... According to political analysts, Kozak, unlike Surkov, is a supporter of" soft "tactics - during negotiations he shows a more restrained position, trying to find a compromise solution.

Analyst Alexei Chesnakov is sure that Kozak plans to solve the problem of Donbass, looking at the issue from an economic point of view.

“Kozak is judging from an economic point of view. Economically, it takes a lot of investment to get the Donbass out of the post-war shock. The question is, who will bear these costs? He will answer: anyone, but not us, "the expert emphasized ..."

https://sharknews.ru/eksperty-otsenili-posledstviya-naznacheniya-kozaka-dlya-ukrainy/

[hydrox]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

if by ear, then by the same rumors Surkov is much more radical in solving problems than Kozak !!!

Surkov replaced by more diplomatic Kozak :: When replacing the Russian political and economic trend, it will not be possible to replace Surkov’s perseverance (I would say adamant)

[hydrox]

Thank you for the info, but I don’t really trust Shark News, and Knyazhitsky has too bright opinions regarding relations between Putin and Zelik after the Polish accident ... moreover, NOBODY even mentioned a word about the post-war LDNR structure - what the hell are investments !?

[TermNachTer]

Relatives in Nikolaev. They sold everything to the Chinese under Kuchma, for more than 20 years, they are doing their own gas turbines. Now there are Indian orders for those pr. 11356 that have come under sanctions, well, a little new for India and the repairs previously delivered to them. But there are less and less, the Indians are also establishing their own release of gas turbines. It is only a matter of time.

[Zaurbek]

And what kind of diesel will they deliver?

[seti]

It’s written because domestic diesel engines total capacity of 4 thousand kW
A very important and interesting article with many consequences ...

[bessmertniy]

And in this our unfriendly neighbor lost his profit.

[seti]

This is his difficulty. It is high time to localize such production exclusively on its territory and polish them to perfection. As a non-specialist, I’m wondering if it’s possible to mount two CODAG diesel engines with a total capacity of 65 horsepower on one ship, presumably the Leader destroyer. This will be 000 horses. There are probably projects ..

[bayard]

It is possible to mount two turbopairs on the M-90FRU, the total capacity will be 110 l / s. This capacity is quite enough for a 000 tonne VI ship. As I recall, there were two versions of the Leader - an atomic one for 12 tonnes of VI, and a gas turbine one for 000 tonnes of a VI.
We don’t need a nuclear one for nothing (the example of the Orlans has shown itself to be terribly expensive ... expensive in everything), but one can even think of a gas turbine in the future.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: bessmertniy

And in this our unfriendly neighbor lost his profit.

Not lost: diesel engines for power plants have always been Russian.

On the Russian side, NPO Saturn OJSC (responsibility zone - power turbine), NPO Avrora FSUE (GTE, diesel and unit control systems), Kolomensky Zavod OJSC (diesel engine) participate in the cooperation on the creation of the unit. on the part of Ukraine - GP NPKG "Zorya - Mashproekt" (turbocharger and gearbox). The tests are carried out on the basis of the Ukrainian state enterprise RPC "Zorya-Mashproekt", since there is no bench base for testing offshore gas turbine units in Russia yet.

© bmpd

[210ox]

Well, they got the money. And even more money received and did not deliver gas turbines.

[Chaldon48]

God be with his neighbor, the main thing is to persuade no one else

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: seti

It’s written because domestic diesel engines total capacity of 4 thousand kW
A very important and interesting article with many consequences ...

You do not mislead the guy ...

Recall that according to open information, the main power plant of the frigates of project 22350 is a gas turbine general capacity of 65 thousand liters. from. and diesel generators with a total capacity 4 thousand kW.

1 h.p. = 0 kW. Consequently, 7457 hp = 65 kW

[Glory1974]

Consequently, 65 hp = 000 kW

therefore the diesel generator power is almost equal to the gas turbine engine?

[bayard]

Quote: ROSS 42

Therefore, 65 hp

In GEM 22350, the power of diesel engines and turbines on the gearbox is not cumulative. In general, there are different working revolutions, they would simply spread both the gearbox and each other.
Therefore, they work alternately - diesel on an economic course (10 l / s), turbines on afterburner, giving a maximum stroke (400 l / s).
In the case of a power plant for 22350M, where the power plant will have only GTA M-70FR and M-90FRU, summing the power on the gearbox is possible, which should positively affect the maximum speed of the ships.

[Errr]

Quote: Zaurbek

And what kind of diesel will they deliver?

Видимо 10Д49 (16ЧН26/26).
https://vpk.name/library/f/10d49.html
http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/catalog/diesels/section_detail.php?SECTION_ID=16

[seti]

Quote: Herrr

Quote: Zaurbek

And what kind of diesel will they deliver?

Видимо 10Д49 (16ЧН26/26).
https://vpk.name/library/f/10d49.html
http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/catalog/diesels/section_detail.php?SECTION_ID=16

Thank you

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: seti

Thank you

Eat for health!

Two Russian gas turbine engines M90FR for the last two frigates 22350 project are already ready, now the delivery of gearboxes for them from the St. Petersburg "Zvezda" is expected. Together with the cruising Kolomna diesel engine 10D49, they will form the ship's gas turbine unit (KGA) M55R. Another M90FR engine, according to the source of the publication, is intended for the head corvette "Daring", which is being built according to the project 20386 at the "Severnaya Verf". His KGA is MA3. However, testing Russian gas turbine engines on warships will not begin until 2021-2022, the source said. According to him, another M90FR is intended for bench tests.
On September 5, 2018, the General Director of Severnaya Verf Shipyard Igor Ponomarev announced that the daring corvette would be handed over to the Russian Navy at the turn of 2021 and 2022. The ship was laid down on September 28, 2016.
The third and fourth frigates of project 22350, Admiral Golovko and Admiral Isakov, plan to transfer the fleet in 2021 and 2022, respectively.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Herrr

Видимо 10Д49 (16ЧН26/26).

And there are no options - except 10D49 there is nothing more in the series.
Not "star" 112-pot set - for fear of warheads and the horror of the plant.

[Errr]

If you put two М507А-2 (2Х56ЧНСП16 / 17) on "Admiral Golovko", then only complete with hydrofoils, not otherwise.

[Rzzz]

M507 must be put in a museum of technical insanity and forget about it.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: rzzz

M507 must be put in a museum of technical insanity and forget about it.

Do not do it this way.
Diesel engines "Zvezdy" are masterpieces that have served the Motherland with dignity.
Resource, oil consumption ... - problems in the 21st century.
If after 1990 the plant could adequately improve them ....

At one time, it was not only the most powerful diesel units, but also the lightest, and, surprisingly, it is a fact, the cheapest horsepower for the fleet.

The motors are unique.
And even today the potential of their application on ships of the fleet is higher than that of the latest "developments".

Although, all this is very sad.

And yet I agree

Quote: rzzz

M507 must be put in a museum.

Worthy exhibit. One of the few diesels known in every marine power.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Sergey S.

Diesels "Zvezdy" are masterpieces that have served the Motherland with dignity

In the absence of the best, perhaps.

Quote: Sergey S.

At one time, it was not only the most powerful diesel units, but also the lightest, and, surprisingly, it is a fact, the cheapest horsepower for the fleet.

In general, before doing something unique and "not having analogoff", you need to think about why they don't do this anywhere else. Why are MAN and Caterpillar making boring V-engines and not going to make cool 112-cylinder "stars" at all?
I respect our designers immensely that they were able to build such a monster and that it also worked. But those who directed this process set technical tasks - I do not understand. These people did not reckon with anything, and forced to create this monster.
With arguments about cheapness - I do not agree. These are VERY expensive horsepower. Firstly, very high operating costs. Fuel, oil, other consumables.
Secondly, the extremely low resource of the motor itself. It must be capitalized at the operating time of about 3 thousand hours. This is extremely small, this is the year of active service of the ship with an operating time of 8 hours a day.
Thirdly, due to the monstrously complex design, these engines are not repaired on board. The ship should not be delivered to the factory, disassemble the engine room, remove the engines and sent for repair to the factory. This is a simple ship under repair for several months, if there are no replaceable engines, if there are, then in a few weeks you can throw it. But it is necessary to buy a couple more.
Thirdly, the use of such engines makes ships with not the most rational scheme of the power plant. On the same "Albatross", such powerful diesel engines are not needed, they would be suitable for patrolling and much weaker, say, 1000 hp, but the afterburner could then be made more powerful.
Another characteristic indicator - when patrolmen drove from the north to the Crimean bridge area - they were towed !!! Because such a transition would simply gobble up a third of the resource of motors.
And in the fourth. Such a unique and daunting engine can not be cheap. It will be super expensive in production, it will be difficult for him to get spare parts and consumables. In addition, an enterprise that makes a couple of such engines a year will never be profitable. His state will constantly save him from bankruptcy, he will never have money for modern machines, high-quality materials, new developments, and most importantly - for qualified personnel. And without this, a normal motor can not be done.
Who knows a Star in the world and who knows a Mercedes in the world?

[Sergey S.]

Quote: rzzz

Who knows in the world "Star" and who knows in the world "Mercedes"

1. Let's start from the end: "Zvezda" is one of the most widespread brands of marine diesel engines in the world. So the sailors know practically nothing about "Mercedes" ...
2. The fact of the matter is that under Yakovlev de facto star-shaped motors the plant sold cheaply. Organization of production, serial production, uniformity of materials, ... After 1990, motors began to rise rapidly in price, catching up and overtaking world prices. But this is already to the prosecutor ...
3. "Gadflies" in distant crossings dragged each other, this is a fact, but a positive fact - they knew how to save fuel and resources.
4. We need a more powerful turbine and a less powerful diesel ... In theory, yes. In practice, done wisely. The turbine's resource, oddly enough, ended earlier and, especially, it was difficult to repair. Then the diesels worked for themselves and for that guy - 1124 temporarily became purely diesel ships. And no one then said that diesel power is excessive.
5. Diesels are recommended for factory repairs. If you want, repair on board, and such craftsmen appeared. But ... the fact is that aggregate repair is much faster and better, bench tests are nevertheless provided. And in Soviet times, diesel engines in warehouses. as spare parts were ...
6. I agree about the resource, I need more. But who doesn’t allow putting Kolomna motors ... It’s also easy in its class.
7. No need to compare Zvezdovsky engines with the best world fuel consumption. These engines are rivals of gas turbines. And even in this comparison, even stars are the top of profitability with a margin of 50%.
8. Last and foremost. - "Zvzeda" provided our fleet with ships at a speed of over 50 knots. This is a worldwide achievement. Until now, high-speed ships are needed ... by the border guards and others.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Sergey S.

Zvezda "is one of the most widespread brands of marine diesel engines in the world. So sailors know practically nothing about Mercedes ...

Come on, they don't know! And what did you put on "Hunters", "Mongoose"? On superyachts all over the world.
And with the "Mongoose" it turned out characteristic: initially, the project was "Star", but it was quickly replaced by MTU. And only under the influence of sanctions they returned back to Zvezda.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: rzzz

Come on, they don't know! And what did you put on "Hunters", "Mongoose"? On superyachts all over the world.
And with the "Mongoose" it turned out characteristic: initially, the project was "Star", but it was quickly replaced by MTU. And only under the influence of sanctions they returned back to Zvezda.

Where's the Mercedes?
MTU engines are famous, no doubt.

But their specific gravity is greater.
And the cost of service is off scale.

As one young engineer said, who easily listened to new trends, and then collided with real engines, almost literally:
- I saw these MTUs, inside as dirty as the star ones.
This is after a business trip to Rybinsk. I don’t remember the year ...

[Rzzz]

MTU is Mercedes. Although there are complex ownership schemes and they regularly change owners, the ears of the Mercedes stick out there anyway.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: rzzz

MTU is Mercedes.

Even when there was no MTU, the Daimler-Benz marine engines came under the brand name МВ (МВ-502).

Since then, much has changed. There is nothing left of automotive solutions in MTU engines.

[Rzzz]

Kolomensky. Like those in submarines.

[Talgarets]

Good luck!

[GKS 2111]

The first frigate of project 22350 "Admiral Golovko" with a completely Russian power plant will be launched this summer.

That's really good news! Seven feet under the keel of the ship and good luck to the sailors!

[Cowbra]

It is high time. No, everything is absolute - from a nail to space rockets in the country it is impossible to produce, in the entire history of mankind there has not been a single completely self-sufficient country. Out. for example, the same China without the United States in the literal sense will die of hunger. But critical production - we must localize. And dviglo for ships or aircraft - it is critically important for our country, we are not Luxembourg tea, you will not go around the country on foot.

[Nevsky_ZU]

Quote: Cowbra

It is high time. No, everything is absolute - from a nail to space rockets in the country it is impossible to produce, in the entire history of mankind there has not been a single completely self-sufficient country. Out. for example, the same China without the United States in the literal sense will die of hunger. But critical production - we must localize. And dviglo for ships or aircraft - it is critically important for our country, we are not Luxembourg tea, you will not go around the country on foot.

Just China can almost, since its domestic market has more than 1 billion people. But the USSR did not produce everything on its territory, not to mention the RSFSR. Socialist Eastern Europe and neutral Finland helped.

[Cowbra]

Yes, I’m talking about that. that EVEN China - not everything can. Grub, for example soybeans - they have to buy from the USA ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

Socialist Eastern Europe and neutral Finland helped.

Whoever did not help the USSR ... even Japan in cooperation with Norway (the "Toshiba" case). A surreal spectacle - the main ally of the United States for maintenance, with the help of a NATO member, supplies the USSR with high-precision machines for processing submarine propellers. How can I not remember Dannig with his at 300 percent there is no crime that he would not risk, at least under pain of the gallows.

[ver_]

... in China, the population is about 500 million people - the rest is from the evil one ..- the bigger the frog - the worse it seems ..

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: ver_

... in China, the population is about 500 million people - the rest is from the evil one ..- the bigger the frog - the worse it seems ..

These are already speculations that are not attached by any evidence. In fact, the last census was in 2010, a total of 1,396 billion people. And according to the latest data, 1, 404 328 611 people. (2019) .... Well, even if they overstate them by 100-200 million, what's the point? In India, with 1,353 billion people, too high?

[ver_]

... do not believe your eyes .. Nobody knows how many people are in India and China .. In China, many cities have been built where no one lives at all, only wipers and traffic lights .. There are only speculations ..

[mmaxx]

Well yes. The average regional center is 7 million people. Regional 8-12. Not counting the suburbs. Visibility is one. Aha. In Manchuria, which, by Chinese standards, is not a good place, everything is built up and planted. I’m not talking about the south and coastal places. We have a desert across the border after the war.
Take a look at the map. In Google.

[ver_]

... many have already dealt with this - many thought ... Statistics in China are jumping like a flea on a dog ..- either higher or lower ..- like Zhvanetsky’s ...

[mmaxx]

Duc, counting over a billion Chinese is not easy. You can always show them that they are deceiving. They have a 5% error - this is half the population of Russia. Unambiguously deceive))).
You just have to go to non-tourist China once and see for yourself. Chinese dohren.

[vladcub]

So it was.

[210ox]

This is exactly how the problem with marine engines (diesels) was not solved in the USSR. Finnish people put it. This refers to civil shipbuilding.

[Rzzz]

What are Finnish ???
In the USSR, an almost complete set of marine engines was produced. From boats to ocean steamboats. Unfortunately, little is left.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: 210ox

This is exactly how the problem with marine engines (diesels) was not solved in the USSR. Finnish people put it. This refers to civil shipbuilding.

In the USSR they built, or rather, ordered so many ships and vessels that our capacities were enough for the main thing - the Navy, nuclear icebreakers ...
And what less responsible they ordered "friends".
By the way, diesels for fishermen were made very well by "Russian Diesel".
Another thing is that the fishermen themselves asked for Finnish diesels due to the spread of service centers in countries around the world. Vessels were in the fishery for many months, they were caught at sea, crews changed in the nearest ports ...

[Gardamir]

And there is an official order to call patrol ships frigates. Or is it cooler in the English manner? As at one time he renamed all volunteers into volunteers. Maybe then write comments in English.
Another warship in the fleet is good, but we seemed to get off our knees.

[bars1]

And I like the name "frigate": "the glorious history of the Russian fleet is blowing. Immediately visible is a battleship. And" patrol ship "... As if we are talking about some kind of civilian ship mobilized during a threatened period.
The fact that volunteers are increasingly beginning to be called "volunteers" I also disagree. The word "volunteer" is more energetic or something ... More powerful.

[Gardamir]

But in the history of the Great Patriotic War there were no frigates with us and nothing was defeated.

[AU Ivanov.]

Alas, in the Great Patriotic War, the fleet was on the sidelines. Even in the Baltic Sea, where the fleet spent the most ammunition, ships were more used as floating artillery batteries in the defense of Leningrad.

[Simargl]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

ships were more used as floating artillery batteries during the defense of Leningrad.

Even funnier: guns were often removed and used on the ground. With the same Aurora took off ...

[Galleon]

Laugh: the sailors from the crews went to the ground to defend their homeland: in combat units, in the landing.

[ver_]

... yeah, did they leave autonomously? ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Simargl

Even funnier: guns were often removed and used on the ground. With the same Aurora removed.

This is not funny, there was a war of survival. Everything for the front.

[tlauicol]

yes, calm down, the Fleet is also not a Russian word - what will we do with it!?

[bars1]

And what does the history of the domestic fleet begin after 1917?

[mmaxx]

There were frigates. In the Far East. American Lend-Lease. A frigate, as a name, is much more suitable for its name than a watchman. What is he guarding?

[AU Ivanov.]

But what about the frigate Pallas? The term "frigate" is not English, but Dutch, and was introduced under Peter the Great. And also in the Russian fleet there were corvettes, brigs, clippers. And the word "cruiser" is also non-Russian.

[Gardamir]

Moreover, I have a book where I talks about the first round-the-world voyage of sailing by Russian sailors. And this swimming made an axis on the frigates Nadezhda and Neva.
But since then much water has flowed. The same British returned to the classification of the frigate, it seems in the late 30s.
In modern Russia, they began to cross five years ago.
It remains to rename the lieutenants in lieutenants. Refuse the Soviet inheritance, so to the full.

[seti]

Why didn’t the lieutenant please you? This is ours - native. My great-grandfather was a pride-haul - I personally am for the return of the old names at least in the registered Cossack units.

[Gardamir]

Who do you think are modern Cossacks? And Google did not say anything about the registered Cossack units, now there are none.

[seti]

Google then if in Yandex it is difficult to search. So to your mind - from the budget of the Stavropol Territory to Cossack squads and associations of the region (104 Cossack organizations with a total of 1560 Cossacks) in 2017, 65,6 million rubles were allocated: for the purchase of uniforms and means of protection, life insurance, as well as wages for Cossacks (an average of 18,9 thousand rubles per month). Cossack squads help carry out joint patrols in the southern regions of the Russian Federation.
Here is Google to help you if you prefer it: https: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosudarstvennaya_register_kazachyh_ obshchestva_Rossiyskoy_Federatsii

[Gardamir]

You see, as a child, I was a fan of the movie "Quiet Flows the Don" and read a book. Then the book and film "Dauria" finally "Kuban Cossacks"
Therefore, the Cossacks loved and respected. But putting a kubanka on, a bekesh and taking a whip does not mean that he has become a Cossack. Therefore, he asked, the Cossacks of our time is who it is for you.

[vladcub]

In some ways you are right: if you started the revival of the Cossacks, then traditional Cossack units.

[Galleon]

I must correct you: "Nadezhda" and "Neva" were sloops.

[Gardamir]

It's just that the book is called Frigate Drivers, about Cook, La Perouse and our Krusenstern and Lisyansky, so I was always sure that the frigate.

[Galleon]

La Perouse's Astrolabe and Boussol were indeed frigates. Cook's Endeavor was a barge originally built to carry coal. Nevelskoy's "Baikal" was just transport: to go far, take a lot of supplies and things with you, there is no task for anyone to fight - why not transport? The book is good and the title is good. Boys like

[AU Ivanov.]

The lieutenant, unlike the lieutenant, is a Slavic word. And the rank of lieutenant in the fleet was introduced under Peter, and not in Soviet times.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Gardamir

It remains to rename the lieutenants in lieutenants.

And to call them not "comrade", but "your honor".

[Sergey S.]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

But what about the frigate Pallas? The term "frigate" is not English, but Dutch, and was introduced under Peter the Great. And also in the Russian fleet there were corvettes, brigs, clippers. And the word "cruiser" is also non-Russian.

The term frigate appeared around the end of the 16th century. According to the engraving that comes to mind - in relation to the English ships.
Around the same time, the British also had the term cruiser. - From the word "cross" - "crossroads" of sea routes, where it is convenient to intercept enemy ships.

Although no one determined the exact origin of these terms.

[rocket757]

The first frigate with all-Russian engines will be launched in summer

We can do it, if necessary ... finely serialization will greatly worsen price and quality indicators, this is a fact.

[Oleg Kolsky 051]

Although the news is still yesterday, but the positive and frigate and t-14 ...

[Lamata]

good news

[Lamata]

That is, the minusers are not happy with this news !!!)))

[Arthur 85]

Again, I’m terribly sorry, but what prevents the delivery of 10 diesel engines? (electric transmission is already there). Here BMZ boasted the other day that 250 sections of main diesel locomotives could produce annually. And 300 shunting (there it is also there). Well, this frigate does not have to go 35 knots, like Novik, or there, Grozny with the Thundering, from the time of the REV. If it doesn’t fit, well, you can increase the VI by 300 tons ...

[AVA77]

How are you going to fix them one began to pour diesel fuel, the second valve burned out, the third by hours of work it’s time to send the kapitalka in general. Not a vessel, but a train depot.

[Arthur 85]

Yes. then there will be 12. Two are always under repair. Out of ten conditional workers, two are working at the pier, five are on the hike, the rest are muffled (the issue has been resolved with motor resources). In battle - all 12. A couple of hours, with a burned-out valve or ring, it will work. There is no armor on the ship; it is possible to provide for their modular extraction by a crane along with a piece of the deck. Refueling is carried out by a sailor (five sailors) with canisters. You can place, instead of the armored belt at the overhead line, outboard. one of them will be struck by RCC - a dog with it, diesel fuel does not burn ...

[AVA77]

If two are always under repair, then in battle there can be 12 but only 10 At pier 2, they wind up the motor resource, in a campaign 5 they wind up the motor resource, 7, reserve 3, and here you have the problem with the motor resource.

[Arthur 85]

So not the same people wind it all the time, but 10 days these two (if there is no energy from the shore), 10 days these five, then others. Even if, on a campaign, 10 are working (although broken pots can be drowned out by the willful decision of the commander), they can even be 10. Even 7. A frigate with a reduced stroke is better than absent as a phenomenon in the sea.

[AVA77]

A limited-speed frigate is not a frigate, but a barge loaded with diesel engines.

[Arthur 85]

This is force majeure when with a limited stroke. Diesel locomotives drive for years, and nothing. Like civilian cargo ships. And warships, I’m very sorry, do not get out of repairs with the best, correct engines for decades.
So maybe put a bad engine from a bulk carrier, or a diesel locomotive? It will be 100 tons heavier, and not overpowered, but it, but its heavy industry, will work not 2 weeks a year, but always.

[AVA77]

Diesel locomotives do not go through MOT at once with a whole bunch, but as necessary for each specific machine. How do you generally evaluate the frigate’s combat readiness if it has 10 engines from a diesel locomotive, 2 flow, 3 chad, the rest as God puts perfume. Is it combat ready or not?

[Arthur 85]

If only children, then the combatants. With the current KOH, I think the engines will still meet the 22nd century, like new. Half and start something will be only a parade.

[vladcub]

I am happy that I am not the chief mechanic. The captain splash through mechanics, but what can a mechanic do?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Arthur 85

So maybe put a bad engine from a bulk carrier, or a diesel locomotive? It will be 100 tons heavier, and not overpowered, but it, but its heavy industry, will work not 2 weeks a year, but always.

Right. And the frigate with him will go like this: he was taken out of the base, embarked on a course - and scooped up with a constant move. Need to change the course? Well ... wait. Variable moves? Full, and then stop and go back? Yes, my God - this is the engine of a cargo ship, it is calculated on the basis of fuel efficiency and economy.
In the 30s, we also tried to put a cheaper engine and tractor transmission on the tank. Complete garbage turned out.

[Arthur 85]

Yes, I also remember about a comrade, who is not our friend, Tukhachevsky ... But the capitalist does not put a thruster on the bulk carrier out of economy, since there are port tugs, but can it be put on a frigate? Of course, I exaggerated a bit about the engine from the bulk carrier, as well as about the locomotive ... But the situation is worth laughing when the Great Power is not able to supply diesel engines with shells of 5000 tons of displacement, and everyone pretends that it should be so ... How Do you think?

[From Siberia we]

And even funnier. By telegraph- STOP- SMALL BACK. and the minders ran. Stop 10 diesels, start 10 diesels and start through the gearbox to connect them to the shaft. Or Arthur 85 they all sit rigidly on the shaft? Well then even funnier

[Arthur 85]

Electric transmission is there. I draw attention once again to this: that is, a diesel-electric generator-traction electric motor complex. No one is running anywhere, except for a sailor with a canister who refills the tank (so that there are fewer pipes, otherwise they will say: are there few pipes on the ship? Do you still want to?)

[Arthur 85]

By the way, just the power of 12 diesel sections correspond to Gorshkov. Weight (together with diesel locomotives, fuel, wheels and sand) 1800 tons. (Sand and wheels with a cabin can be left on the shore).

[From Siberia we]

Arthur 85. Yes, you are just the helmsman !!!! Patent your child prodigy faster !!!!

[Arthur 85]

Well you, I have a generous soul. Let everyone who wants to build a cheap frigate / corvette / aircraft carrier take and use it for free!

[ver_]

... so, but forgot about the sails ..?

[Lamata]

how do you stick them at all 10 pieces there, synchronize at least as

[Arthur 85]

They are in no way, but the electricity generated by them is possible. Well, I did not in vain mention the electric transmission. 100 power plants from Kaliningrad to Vladivostok synchronize somehow.

[Lamata]

if you don’t stick, then there’s nothing to talk about. This is not rude to you, just a statement of fact

[Arthur 85]

Okay, I don’t argue, I don’t ship. You just have to state that there is no small surface fleet, and is not expected. Because in the traditional layout, we cannot build it, but we do not want to consider options. Well, it remains only to rely on strategic nuclear forces.
Sticking them there, I think, is much easier than a triple expansion machine on an EBR. And I even think that they will also be much easier than gas turbines ... I wrote about synchronization ...

[Lamata]

OK, agreed

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Arthur 85

what prevents to put 10 diesel engines?

Oh, and trouble with them with these diesel engines. I had 4 pieces, but one is under repair almost all the time, and you will be tormented by the "assembly scheme" for 10 pieces.

[Arthur 85]

In the absence of a stamp. I think something can be assembled on a semiconductor control circuit. In vain did they invent iPhones.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Arthur 85

In vain did they invent iPhones.

Well, if iPhones, then there will be no problems.

[Arthur 85]

No, you don’t think that I am an iPhone carrier, I mean that the monstrous computing power of the "gatgets", damn them, is completely wasted ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Arthur 85

No, you don’t think that I am an iPhone carrier, I mean that the monstrous computing power of "gadgets"

Yes, I'm not talking about the iPhone, but about all the electronics. In the sea, the less electronics, the easier it is to live.

[Arthur 85]

And here is also a question (just a request not to throw slippers), what prevents 10 traction motors from working on one shaft? Indeed, through the 4-6-8 wheelset, the traction motors work on one rail ... And if one "breaks", then he will have to "wait" for the rest ... And no electronics. What is the difference?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Arthur 85

And here is the question (only please do not throw slippers), but what prevents 10 traction motors from working on one shaft?

Well, if the diesel is an electric ship, then it works on one electric motor and one screw (electric propeller). You can put 5 on one, there will be two screws.

[Arthur 85]

Thanks, I basically thought so. Then I do not see any obstacles at all, except, perhaps, the abundance of powerful electrical cables on the warship. No matter how short it all is during flooding / roll / penetration. On the other hand, you can somehow think of a fuse system, make redundant tires, etc.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Arthur 85

On the other hand, you can somehow think of a fuse system, make redundant tires, etc.

On ships everything is always duplicated, "port feeder" and "starboard feeder". But you're right, vitality is lower. For civilian ships, the system is good, all icebreakers and ships operating in the north work mainly according to this scheme. In ice for 10 seconds, "full forward, full back", the main thing is not to overload, the circuit will fall apart.

[Arthur 85]

Yes, here you already need to think: whether to reduce the voltage, to avoid, in which case fatal consequences for the crew, or to place the generators as close as possible to the electric motors, below the waterline, to minimize the likelihood of damage ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Arthur 85

place the generators as close to the electric motors as possible, below the waterline to minimize the likelihood of damage.

The rowing engine is in the stern itself (shorter than the valolinium), and the engine is in the same pattern as in the very first steam melting vessel in the world.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: tihonmarine

the smaller the electronics, the easier it is to live.

Let there be more!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Arthur 85

Again, I’m terribly sorry, but what prevents the delivery of 10 diesel engines?

So in the FR there is just a diesel engine! Kolomna does not do others - the plant sits on orders from Russian Railways.
And with Kolomna diesel engines on surface ships, the fleet drank so much that it was because of them that German and other imported diesel engines were ordered. For 20380 GEMs were brought over 5 years - and still there were accidents right up to the fires.

[K-50]

Should electric movement be used instead of gearboxes?
How much greater is the loss relative to mechanical transmission, about 5-8%?
For that there is less noise and complexity, there is no gearbox combining revolutions of gas turbine and diesel engines at full speed, again it is easier to adjust the propeller revolutions.
There is something to think about.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: K-50

Should electric movement be used instead of gearboxes?

Working with electromotion is certainly a beauty. From the stop, full forward, stop full back. The main thing is not to overload the "scheme will fall apart". In the ice, you can't think of a better one.

[Super]

Good news. Work brothers.

[Mikhail3]

They will not let me down. There must be tens of millions of Chinese components and assemblies, as everywhere else. They won’t let them down, don’t go to the grandmother.

[2Albert]

Something in the article is not right, the test bench for the entire unit in Rybinsk, so there is no point in delivering to the shipyard until everyone runs it at the stand.

[Buntovshik]

Well, finally, they "gave birth" to their own .. Great job guys. thanks, keep it up!

[DRM]

The first frigate with all-Russian engines will be launched in summer

It remains to clarify which summer?

[Vladimir Mashkov]

It is a pity that ... VERY bad people of unconventional orientation (this is not an insult, but a fact!) From the ruling elite in Kiev forbade the Nikolaev "Zare-Mashproekt" to make units for Russian frigates: the factory workers do not mind. And aircraft carriers can be built in Nikolaev ...

[Arthur 85]

It was possible about 15 years ago, and now ...

[vladcub]

Quote: bayard

Quote: vladcub

It would be great if someone writes such an article

This question is for Aristarkh Ludwigovich - he has a dock on this topic with us, he even laid out photo reports on the stages of assembly of the first gearboxes. From half a year ago, he stated that we learn about the results of success / failure this summer - after the descent of the first-born from the domestic power plant and its sea trials. Only after that it will be possible to say that the problem with domestic power plants has been resolved.

This is exactly then we will see

[Anchonsha]

Finally created. Now you need to improve and create more powerful engines. The gearbox is not so difficult to complete, since they created the engine. And we need long-range frigates in sufficient numbers for all fleets, because we are surrounded on all sides. God bless the fleets in the fastest development.

[lvov_aleksey]

HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[volga17]

I would like to ask one question to the interlocutors (who are closely following the manufacture of the gearbox at the "Zvezda" and the GTE at the "Saturn"): "Why is the article talking about one unit of the product?" As far as I understand, the frigate's power plant consists of two sets: diesel + gas turbine engine + gearbox. So how many gearboxes were made at Zvezda - one or two?

[23424636]

I read a story about the sale of a government stake in Zvezda-reduktor and was horrified - a government stake (92%) is sold for purchase by the state in the form of Rostec. Guys, maybe you should stop smoking tobacco at the Uritsky factory and start production. In the Zvezda reducer itself, a strategic plant on which the entire production process of judging depends, and in the end, 75 people work for the defense of the state. Petrograd you are just crazy in your impunity. Up to 800 people worked at the NKMZ in Kramatorsk at one time.