Why the USA started a world war

Why the USA started a world war

American battleship North Carolina during sea trials. May 1941


"Crusade" of the West against Russia. Who fought against whom in World War II? The official anti-Hitler coalition against Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and militaristic Japan. In reality, the United States unleashed this war against the whole world in order to achieve world domination.

The USA fought a war according to a strategy of indirect actions: “divide and conquer”. Washington “nurtured” the hotbeds of war in Japan (the Asia-Pacific region), Italy and Germany (the Euro-African theater), pitted and pushed its rivals and enemies with each other, and provoked them to take advantageous steps. As a result of World War II, the United States achieved much: they destroyed and subjugated Western Europe, destroyed the German and Japanese empires, the American partner, the British Empire, was bled out, moving to the position of “junior” in the Washington – London tandem. The dollar dared all its competitors on a significant part of the planet, became a world currency, the United States received a financial instrument of world domination. Russia suffered terrible losses, it took off to the stars, and then, under Khrushchev, it was stopped.

The causes of the war


The fundamental cause of all world wars is the pursuit of world domination, the concentration of world resources and globalization. "King of the Hill" should be alone. There is a kind of competition of world projects, civilizations. By the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the western project in the form of capitalism dominated in most of the planet. Its essence is constant expansion, parasitism, exhaustion of other people's resources and energy.

The First World War was unleashed by “Western democracies” - the masters of Paris, London and Washington (Why did the masters of the West unleashed the First World War) to crush the competitors within the Western project - the German world, to destroy Russian civilization (the main prize) and the Ottoman Empire in order to further enslave the Islamic world. To establish the complete dominance of financial capital on the planet. However, the goals of this world war were not fully realized.

The German world, the aristocratic monarchies - the German and Austro-Hungarian empires, were destroyed. The Roman world - France and Italy, is bloodless, weakened and subject to the Anglo-Saxons. The Ottoman Empire was destroyed, dismembered and plundered, its possessions became the sphere of influence of the great Western powers. The Russian empire was killed, dismembered, subjected to total robbery, unleashed a terrible fratricidal Civil War, the intervention began capturing strategic points and cities. It seemed that the “Russian question” had been resolved. Russian civilization, a millennium opposed to the West, has fallen forever. However, the Russian Bolshevik Communists raised the red banner of social justice, won and were able to revive Russian (Soviet) statehood in a new way. Moreover, under Stalin, a Russian (Soviet) global project was born in Russia. Russia was reborn like a phoenix, and the West sensed a threat to its dominance.

In addition, the US victory in World War I was incomplete. Project of Woodrow Wilson, Colonel House (What is a "House Plan") about the American “new world order” was not fully implemented. Yes, America has become a world creditor from a world debtor, has entangled England and France with billions of debts. But the United States did not become a "global gendarme." The Soviet empire rose, in the Pacific, Japan showed its ambitions. Europe failed to completely subjugate the American will. That is, the First World War was incomplete, a “continuation war" was necessary.

The crisis of capitalism


The causes of the world war also lie in the crisis of capitalism. This system is designed for the constant expansion, absorption and development of ever new resources, energy and territories, enslavement of ever new peoples and countries. And there were no more. The whole planet has been mastered. It remains only to capture the spheres of influence within the capitalist world itself. In particular, the United States needed the colonies and markets of the British Empire.

The Great Depression was an unprecedented economic crisis that hit the United States in 1929. A strong crisis swept Western Europe, becoming the basis for the strengthening of fascist, dictatorial and authoritarian regimes, the victory of the Nazis in Germany. There are 15 million unemployed in the United States. The American "famine": some were dying of hunger, while others were starving. Crowds of workers, small employees, teachers and farmers who demand "to do as the Russians do" - there was no crisis in the USSR, on the contrary, there was a rapid rise. When the crisis struck, it became clear that in the States there is practically no social legislation, pensions and unemployment benefits, people are completely defenseless.

Roosevelt's predecessors tried to deal with the crisis with old methods. They balanced the budget, “optimized” it, cut costs, did not want to spend money on long-term programs for the development of agriculture and industry. They tried by all means to ensure low inflation and dollar stability. In fact, Russian liberals from the 90s to the present day are doing the same. As a result, the masses went bankrupt, became poorer, and the rich grew capital. It is not surprising that in the 1930s, millions of demonstrations took place in the United States under socialist slogans. The police had to use machine guns against the protesters, the government threw troops to disperse protests. In some states, camps were built for the homeless and the unemployed. A war was brewing between the countryside and the city, as it was in Russia. The ghost of a second civilian rose over the States.

The owners of the United States had no choice: either a big war again, or the development of a crisis that could lead to the collapse of the socio-economic American system, a new civil war, and the collapse of the States. It is clear that the owners of America were not going to follow the paths of social justice, peace and good. These are predators, social parasites. Therefore, it was decided once again to “reload the matrix”, to break and remake the entire world system. The great war gave America a great chance for world domination. Fortunately, the United States had a great starting position.

Thus, the question was straightforward: either the outbreak of a new world war with the goal of a radical reorganization of the entire world order in the interests of America, or the continuation of the terrible crisis threatening a civil war, the collapse of the country and millions of victims. Washington has chosen war.

Preparing for war


The United States from the beginning of the 1930s began to prepare for a new world war, when the Germans did not even think about it. In 1932, Franklin Roosevelt came to power. His policy was called the New Deal. Temporarily put a limit to financial parasites - banks. A single Reconstruction Finance Corporation is opening. An extraordinary law is being passed, which introduces state guarantee of private deposits in surviving banks, but threatens all people who keep money at home in a “mattress” with a prison term. Such is the financial discipline. People are again forced to put their savings and gold in banks. A powerful public sector is being created. Production planning, state control over prices and public works are introduced. The state uses a printing press to finance industrial projects. Serious assistance is being provided to the agricultural sector. Huge finances go to military projects, construction fleet for the conquest of world domination. In fact, Roosevelt largely repeated the Soviet experience.

The authorities dictate the minimum wage to entrepreneurs, protect the working class. Introduced powerful mechanisms of social protection of Americans. From this time begins the "golden age" of the working, middle-class USA. The Civil Engineering Corps has been created (remember the labor armies of Soviet Russia) to overcome unemployment. Hundreds of thousands of people literally over food work at "construction sites of capitalism" at an accelerated pace. Dams, highways, bridges, new industrial enterprises, etc. are being built. At the same time, Roosevelt strengthens the presidential and central authority. State rights are being cut. Expand special services and their rights. There is a "war of the elites." Part of the American elite considers Roosevelt to be a “communist", a dictator, trying to get him down. Roosevelt himself criticizes the "oligarchs" and "new feudal lords."

That was Roosevelt's New Deal. However, not everything is glued. There is no decisive change. It was possible to get out of the pit, but it was not possible to rush forward. It is impossible to combine capitalism and the elements of socialism. Throughout the 30s, the US economy has stagnated. In 1937, a new wave of crisis erupted. Analysts predict a new wave of great depression and economic collapse in 1940.

And the United States begins preparations for a new world massacre. Earlier then others! The new global war is the last chance for the United States to preserve itself and spread American order throughout the world. Transfer the crisis from the core of the capitalist system to the rest of the world. Throughout the second half of the 30s, Washington is doing everything to destroy any attempts to create a collective security system in Europe, punish aggressors, stop Mussolini and Hitler. Roosevelt supports Chamberlain's "appeasement" policy. London and Washington are pushing Hitler to the East. Financial capital supports the militarization of the Reich (On the preparation of the American capital of World War II; Who brought Hitler to power).

The States themselves are intensely preparing for war. From 1934 to 1938 US military budget doubles. Washington needs a complete victory. Destroyed Europe at its feet, which can be easily enslaved by financial and economic methods. Crushed Germany, Japan and the USSR. Washington needs to weaken the British Empire, to become an "older brother." War is the only salvation from the crisis of capitalism. It will revitalize the economy, allow you to stick to the destroyed, ruined countries. Deflate the wealth of Europe, Asia and plunder the main prize - Russia.


US President Roosevelt shows on the map the Pacific theater of operations. 1942
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  1. Vasily Ponomarev 6 February 2020 06: 12 New
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    so they rewrite history, do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same thing, conspirators
    1. Amateur 6 February 2020 06: 50 New
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      do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same, conspiratorial

      What, Mr. Samsonov has already become president of the Russian Federation to compare him with the presidents of Poland and Ukraine? fool
      1. bandabas 6 February 2020 19: 31 New
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        Это личная проблема г-на Самсонова. Только в этой статье он забыл упомянуть, что золото у граждан США принудительно подлежало принудительному обмену в пользу государства в 1933 году. А, потом, цена на золотишко выросла в 1,5. В 1936, когда у населения США содрали все, что можно.
        1. Shurik70 7 February 2020 15: 05 New
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          By the way.
          It just became known that due to the collapse of the economy from the coronavirus, China halves the duties on goods from the United States.
          And I won’t be surprised when the US pharmaceutical companies suddenly announced that they had found a cure for it. This will be just before the real threat of a large-scale epidemic comes for the United States.
          1. Blackmokona 7 February 2020 18: 15 New
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            China agreed to reduce duties with the US before the outbreak
    2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 00 New
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      Quote: Vasily Ponomarev
      so they rewrite history, do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same thing, conspirators

      The article is clear, precise, although not without inaccuracies.
      What do you disagree with specifically? Without hay and vomit. angry
      1. bessmertniy 6 February 2020 09: 22 New
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        And the secret was never that the United States from the beginning of the last century was eager for world domination. They did not have time to redistribute the colonies, but financially, through their green dollar, were able to subjugate even the former colonialists.
        1. gridasov 6 February 2020 11: 10 New
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          Более того американцы умело инвестируют очень большие деньги не нарушая баланса внутри страны и минуя щобнищание народа. Механизм логически прост. В России вооруженные силы инвнстируются из бюджета и это всегда имеет отражение на жизни людей.
          1. Essex62 7 February 2020 16: 12 New
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            Investing in war is not worth the Freemasons. The cut, colored paper does not have gold support and the printing press can be turned on as hell does. The balance inside the platform of the printing press, and not the country of SCA, is not possible to upset
            . Having imposed its candy wrappers on the whole World, this evil is superstable and has an unlimited resource to support this stability.
            The article has a lot of repetitions, but in fact everything is. True
        2. Arlen 6 February 2020 14: 44 New
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          Quote: bessmertniy
          And the secret never was that the United States from the beginning of the last century was eager for world domination.

          And yet they seized upon the role of world gendarme. Thanks to their role as world gendarme, in the 21st century the world has come to the brink of new world challenges and disasters. It seemed that after two world wars that claimed tens of millions of human lives, there should no longer be anything like it. But the United States is doing everything in its power to support conflicts around the world, strain the global environment, and violate all international standards. And what will happen next is not known to anyone.
          1. Lister 7 February 2020 01: 04 New
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            Quote: Arlen
            And yet they seized upon the role of world gendarme

            In the 19th century, the Russian empire was also called the "world gendarme" for participating in the suppression of the national uprising of 1848. The role of the “world gendarme” ended badly for Russia, by the Crimean War. Maybe it is waiting for them?
            1. nickname7 8 February 2020 16: 38 New
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              The role of the “world gendarme” ended badly for Russia, by the Crimean War

              The elite of Russia relaxed, wallowed in luxury and decayed, this is the reason for its defeat, and the elite in Kapmir constantly conflicts and maintains their shape. They are very strong.
        3. NEXUS 6 February 2020 14: 48 New
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          Quote: bessmertniy
          And the secret never was that the United States from the beginning of the last century was eager for world domination.

          Yes, it’s not the United States, but the fact that this war is of our civilizations and the Anglo-Saxons. And so far we are shamelessly losing this war, since all Slavic states are either under the Anglo-Saxons or weak and weak, which cannot be said about the alliance of the Anglo-Saxons. Add to this the corporate world war and the picture is obtained in oil.
          If you look closely at the wars of the last 100 years, you will see that the Anglo-Saxons very purposefully destroy historical facts, with their own or the wrong hands. In addition, they try to rewrite history as a whole. So the United States is only part of the Anglo-Saxon world and I think not the most important.
      2. Engineer 6 February 2020 10: 57 New
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        The article is a set of vyrviglaznyh stamps and misconceptions of the level of the "Dulles Plan"
        The situation in the United States was complex and diverse. The isolationists had a strong position.
        In general, the main geopolitical goal of the states of the 30s and early 40s was the dismantling of the British Empire. So all the pathos of Samsonov goes into the air
        1. zenion 7 February 2020 18: 07 New
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          It is a pity that you did not read Mark Twain's books. Especially those volumes where his political articles are for newspapers. He named the United Lynching States before the twentieth century. From its very conception, the United States has lived in wars, just as a bandit cannot stop robbing.
      3. Baloo 6 February 2020 12: 46 New
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        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Quote: Vasily Ponomarev
        so they rewrite history, do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same thing, conspirators

        The article is clear, precise, although not without inaccuracies.
        What do you disagree with specifically? Without hay and vomit. angry

        Симпатизантам США: Бернард Барух с Вудро Вильсоном стояли у основания создания ФРС в 2013г. Этот же барух незадолго до убийства Кеннеди встречался с ним, есть архивное фото с этой встречи. Повод для визита: Кеннеди пытался ограничить права ФРС, что и послужило поводом для его устранения специально подготовленным не шибко умным психически лабильным без "царя в голове" "специалистом", которого тут же устранил другой "специалист". Свидетели, утверждавшие, что выстрелов было несколько и не со стороны книжного склада, как-то сами собой очень быстро померли либо исчезли. Так вам не нравятся Советские учебники по истории и статья автора?
        А как вам это: личные сбережения Гитлер хранил в банке дедушки Буша-младшего? Троцкий при поддержке финансовых воротил Уолл-стрита пробрался в Россию через Англию, когда стала ясна несостоятельность Временного правительства. Брат Свердлова открыл банк в США в 1916г. , который накрылся медным тазом после смерти Сверлова, ну а про сейф Свердлова, вскрытый в 1937г. про попытку переворота Троцким в 1927 г. (главная движущая сила-лица еврейской национальности)-общеизвестно. Так это не США, стремясь к гегемонии в наше время в 90 странах устраивали перевороты после второй мировой, а "активисты"? Я не так наивен.
      4. Olgovich 6 February 2020 12: 48 New
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        Quote: Mavrikiy
        The article is clear, precise, although not without inaccuracies.
        What do you disagree with specifically? Without hay and vomit.

        Only the facts of the author’s untruth:
        Author: it was decided once again to “reload the matrix”, to break and remake the entire world system. Great war gave America a great chance for world domination

        And here is how the USA "prepared" for war in reality:

        These are defense costs: as you can see, nothing special, practically, BEFORE 1941, NO.

        К началу второй мировой войны США, фактически, не имели армии и флота, как и военной промышленности, а численность армии США была less the strength of the Portuguese army!

        But only after defeat France 3 July 1940 year Рузвельт утвердил Arms Program for 1940-1941.

        And then, of course, away we go ....

        Author:it was decided once again “reload the matrix”, break and remake the entire world system
        By whom decided when decided that decided: DOCUMENTS -On the table !!

        Otherwise, fairy tales and I to compose I can.... hi
        1. iouris 6 February 2020 17: 59 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          These are defense costs: as you can see, nothing special, practically, BEFORE 1941, NO.

          Correctly. But F.D. Roosevelt on the eve of the war in advance and at the expense of the US state budget (!!!) carried out a grandiose infrastructure economic project (not for nothing the omnipotent head of the FBI Hoover suspected him of communism) - created an "industrial cluster" that ensured a huge increase in military production.
          Before the US WWI, Europe owed a lot of money. After the WWII, Europe owed the USA a lot of money. Gold and brains flowed into the United States. The same thing happened after WWII. Even doctrinal obstacles (the Monroe Doctrine) could not prevent entry into the WWII and WWII.
          The same scheme works now. And what prevents?
          All are part of this empire.
          1. Blackmokona 7 February 2020 18: 17 New
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            The United States at the end of the 19th century became the first economy in the world, and had this very heavy-duty industrial cluster.
            1. iouris 7 February 2020 19: 33 New
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              Quote: BlackMokona
              The United States in the late 19th century became the first economy in the world.

              Смотря что "имела". В конце 19 в. США вступили в системный кризис перепроизводства, который угрожал самому существованию США. Именно поэтому правящие круги США решили выйти со своими товарами в Восточное полушарие. Особенно их привлекал Китай, где господствовали суперимперии. И шо с ими стало вскоре? Они утонули. Все. Австро-Венгерская империя, Османская империя, Российская империя. Кстати, Австро-Венгерская империя была очень даже развитой в плане технологий, Российская кормила Европу зерном, маслом и нефтью, на территории Османской империи располагаются Израиль и основные источники нефти. Кто стал единственной супердержавой?
              1. Blackmokona 8 February 2020 09: 12 New
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                The crisis of overproduction was already after the WWII, before that no similar problems were observed. Also, if he wanted to capture the mountains of the colonies, then the United States could not fit in with Britain. On the contrary, it was necessary to attack her after the end of the WWII and capture all the colonies of France and Britain. After which the United States would occupy a third of the globe and dominate the destroyed Europe. Which, of course, in no case could be restored, but only kept in a trade blockade and starved
        2. gsev 8 March 2020 02: 01 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          and the size of the US army was less than the size of the Portuguese army!

          Данный комментарий в отличии от статьи довольно точно показал состояние дел перед нападением Японии на США. Одной из важных причин внезапного нападения Японии на США было мнение японских военных, что у США очень маленькая армия, и США в случае начала войны не смогут развернуть ее в массовую крупную армию, не смогут подготовить генералов США к управлению крупными воинскими соединениями, не смогут в течении 1-2- лет обучить военных летчиков. Строительство дорог, плотин в США для выхода из депрессии только с большой натяжкой можно отнести к подготовке войны..
    3. iouris 6 February 2020 11: 52 New
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      This is a long known story. Every cultural person must know this. Continuous wars among the "barbarians" - the way the US exists as a world empire. Back in the 1960s, on Soviet cartoons, the US Army was depicted in the form of a fire brigade on the contrary. Verses about "arsonists" are also known.
    4. nickname7 8 February 2020 16: 34 New
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      that's how they rewrite history

      Rewriting is when they invent or hide facts. The facts in the article are not fictional.
  2. Do not care 6 February 2020 06: 19 New
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    Interestingly, I alone feel sick of what I read?
    This is how much you need to not respect site visitors in order to write such nonsense.
    1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 07: 00 New
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      Quote: Do not care
      Interestingly, I alone feel sick of what I read?

      Rinse out your mouth.
    2. Pessimist22 6 February 2020 07: 08 New
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      The article forgot to mention reptilians, that they want war. smile
    3. Santa Fe 6 February 2020 07: 17 New
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      Criticism Must Be Constructive
      1. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 06 New
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        Quote: Santa Fe
        Criticism Must Be Constructive

        Ишь чего захотел, конструктива от не адекватов. Просто поток сознания. request
        1. My doctor 14 February 2020 22: 42 New
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          Quote: Mavrikiy
          Look what you wanted, the construct is not adequate. Just a stream of consciousness.

          Quote: iouris
          To criticize constructively, you have to read too much.

          I am ashamed to admit, but you are right. One must love reading very much to overpower the article. I could not.
      2. iouris 6 February 2020 18: 00 New
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        To criticize constructively, you have to read too much.
    4. Sadam 6 February 2020 08: 20 New
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      мне тоже показалось я уже читал это 30 лет назад из учебников в школе)))
      1. Boris55 6 February 2020 09: 43 New
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        Quote: Sadam
        мне тоже показалось я уже читал это 30 лет назад из учебников в школе)))

        Well, and how, did they write the truth in the textbooks of that time or not?
      2. Sergey Olegovich 6 February 2020 21: 28 New
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        Quote: Sadam
        I also thought I already read this 30 years ago from textbooks at school)))

        Quote: Sadam
        I also thought I already read this 30 years ago from textbooks at school)))

        This was not in those textbooks 30 years ago.
    5. Octopus 6 February 2020 08: 43 New
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      Quote: Do not care
      how much you should not respect site visitors in order to write such nonsense.

      You are wrong to offend Comrade Samsonov. He has been grazing here with his science fiction for ten years now. Well, who, but he knows well who reads it.

      Although, of course, if everyone has long been accustomed to its altistory of the USSR, its transition to a foreign country makes a heavy impression. Along with the usual conspiratorialism (the United States is perceived by analogy with the USSR as a single author, while their actions are given strictly selectively, in particular, Soviet industrialization is not mentioned in any case), the author very often issues absolutely enchanting statements. There is no power to disassemble them.
    6. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 02 New
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      Quote: Do not care
      Interestingly, I alone feel sick of what I read?
      This is how much you need to not respect site visitors in order to write such nonsense.

      No, over there Vaska Paramonova was also sick, the ruin lackeys.
    7. Engineer 6 February 2020 10: 53 New
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      Look at it the other way. While Samsonov writes in the opinions section, in the historical division of forces he only has enough for a civil war. If you stop writing here, then with a new force will begin the opupey of the millennia-old Slavic-Aryan Reich in the historical. There the degree of inadequacy is an order of magnitude greater. So the current situation is the lesser of two evils.
    8. AK1972 6 February 2020 15: 11 New
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      Even if we assume that Samsonov writes the absolute truth, he is still sick of his opuses. On this subject, he has already uploaded dozens of articles of the same content to the site, slightly changing words in places. Authorship is recognized by the first two sentences. So this time I stopped reading the heading and the first paragraph, because I know the further contents. However, Samsonov's articles regularly gain a record number of comments. I already suggested not to comment on the same type of article by this author (group of authors), but I couldn’t resist it myself.
  3. Mathafaka 6 February 2020 06: 19 New
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    America of the 30s did not want any war, it was a society of isolationists, they did not need any war, much less in Europe.
    Рузвельт из кожи вон лез, чтобы помочь Советскому Союзу в 41.
    And now he is accused of starting World War 2.
    Class.
    1. Vladivostok1969 6 February 2020 06: 45 New
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      At the same time, America traded not only with the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition
      During the Nuremberg Trials, the former President of the Imperial Bank, Hjalmar Schacht, said in an interview with an American lawyer: “If you want to indict industrialists who helped rearm Germany, you must indict yourself. You will be required to indict the Americans. The Opel automobile plant, for example, did not produce anything other than military products. Owned this factory, your General Motors. Almost until the end of the war, with special permission to trade with Germany, Italy, Japan, the American telecommunications company ITT conducted its business. Ford did not stop production in France after the German occupation by the Germans, while German Goering, who headed the Reichswerk German Goering industrial concern, personally provided special protection for Ford's activities in Europe. What can I say, even if the Coca-Cola company, far from military affairs, has launched production of the Fanta drink in Germany!

      Не помешала война «Стандарт ойл» заключить через британских посредников контракт с германским химическим концерном «И.Г.Фарбенидустри» на производство авиационного бензина в Германии. За время Второй мировой войны ни один танкер «Стандарт ойл» не был потоплен немецкими подводными лодками.
      1. Avior 6 February 2020 07: 23 New
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        это выдумки из книжки Торговля с врагом, которую вы процитировали.
        There are no confirmations or links to Documents, and a simple check shows that it is full of ordinary fabrications.
        There was no long-known Standard Oil company at the beginning of the war, it broke up during the First World War, there were more than a dozen companies with different names with the combination of Standard Oil, but the Germans drowned their tankers in the same way as others, including if they sailed under neutral flags.
        This list has long been known.
        Next, I bring a part of my last year’s post on this topic.
        The story of supposedly unsinkable tankers is discussed throughout the Internet many times.
        To begin with, the famous Standard Oil company was dissolved before the First World War by a court decision and could not supply oil to the Germans by definition. In its place, a whole bunch of small companies formed - 38, to be exact, some of which had the phrase "Standard Oil" in their name.
        The author of this "documentary" book did not even suspect this, it seems.
        Rockefeller himself, by the way, died in 1937.
        As for the unsinkable tankers, the Germans actually sunk dozens of tankers from among the companies that were originally part of Standard Oil, including those registered in Mexico for the Panama Transport Co company - the Germans didn’t really honor such subtleties.
        Moreover, the very first tanker sunk by the Germans in 1942 immediately after the US entered the war was the Standard Oil tanker. For example, the statistics of tanker losses of the same Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York, which are covered in the article, and of the Panama affiliate of Panama Transport Co for the first six months of 1942 after the US entered the war plus 2, sunk before the official start of the war, lists of sunken ships are no longer a secret.



        1. "Charles Pratt" (8,982 brt) October 20, 1939
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: Aruba (5 Dec) - Freetown
        load: 96.069 barrels of fuel oil
        Sunk U65 21.12.40/2/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        2. "IC White" (7,052 gt) 1940
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: Curaçao - Capetown
        load: 62.390 barrels of crude oil
        Sunk U66 27.09.41/3/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        3. "Allan Jackson" (6,635 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Cartagena, Colombia - New York
        Cargo: 72.870 barrels of crude oil
        Sunk U66 18.01.42/22/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        4. "WL Steed" (6,182 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Cartagena, Columbia (23 Jan) - Key West, Florida - New York
        Cargo: 65.936 barrels of crude oil
        Sunk U103 02.02.42/34/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        5. "RP Resor" (7,451 gt)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Baytown, Texas - Fall River, Massachusetts
        Cargo: 105,025 barrels of Bunker C fuel oil
        Sunk U578 27.02.42/47/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        6. "Hanseat" (8,241 gt) 1935
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: New York - Caripito, Venezuela
        Cargo: Ballast
        Sunk U126 09.03.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

        7. "Penelope" (8,436 gt) 1935
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: Caripito - Halifax
        Cargo: Crude oil
        Sunk U67 14.03.42/2/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        8. "EM Clark" (9,647 gt)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Baton Rouge, Louisiana - New York
        Cargo: 118.725 barrels of heating oil
        Sunk U124 18.03.42/1/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        9. "Esso Boston" (7,699 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Güiria, Venezuela - Halifax
        Cargo: 105.400 barrels of crude oil
        Sunk U130 12.04.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

        10. "Heinrich von Riedemann" (11,020 gross)
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: La Guira, Venezuela (14 Apr) - Port of Spain (16 Apr) - Aruba
        Cargo: 127.041 barrels of crude oil
        Sunk U66 17.04.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

        11. "Harry G. Seidel" (10,354 brt) 1935
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: Aruba (27 Apr) - Caripito, Venezuela
        Cargo: Ballast
        Sunk U66 29.04.42/2/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        12. "Esso Houston" (7,699 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Aruba (9 May) - Montevideo, Uruguay
        Cargo: 81.701 barrels of fuel oil
        Sunk U162 13.05.42/1/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        13. "MF Elliott" (6,940 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Newport News (19 May) - Trinidad - Caripito, Venezuela
        Cargo: Ballast
        Sunk U502 03.06.42/13/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        14. "LJ Drake" (6,693 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Aruba (4 Jun) - San Juan, Puerto Rico
        Cargo: 72,961 barrels of gasoline
        Sunk U68 05.06.42/41/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        15. "COStillman" (13,006 gross)
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: Aruba - New York
        Cargo: 125.812 barrels fuel oil and 39 tons dry cargo
        Sunk U68 06.06.42/3/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        16. "Franklin K. Lane" (6,589 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Caripito, Venezuela - Trinidad (7 Jun) - Aruba
        Cargo: 73,000 barrels of crude oil
        Sunk U502 09.06.42/4/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        17. "EJ Sadler" (9,639 gb)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: San Nicolas, Aruba (21 Jun) - New York
        Cargo: 149.003 barrels of kerosene
        Sunk U159 22.06.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

        18. "William Rockefeller" (14,054 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Aruba (19 Jun) - New York
        Cargo: 135.000 barrels of fuel oil
        Sunk U701 28.06.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

        19. "Benjamin Brewster" (5,950 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Baytown, Texas (8 Jul) - Tampa, Florida
        Cargo: 70578 barrels of aviation gas and lubricating oil
        Sunk U67 10.07.42/25/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        20. "RW Gallagher" (7,989 gross)
        Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
        Route: Baytown, Texas (10 Jul) - Port Everglades, Florida
        Cargo: 80.855 barrels of Bunker C fuel oil
        Sunk U67 13.07.42/10/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        21. "Beaconlight" (6,926 gt)
        Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
        Route: Capetown (21 Jun) - Trinidad
        Cargo: Ballast
        Sunk U160 16.07.42/1/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

        In total, during the war the Germans sunk about 120 American tankers, of which almost half belonged to the companies from the group of the former Standard Oil.
        Well, you can’t endlessly refer to a frank invention, which is “Trade with the Enemy,” although pleasant things are written there.
        The American has long since withdrawn money on a high-profile topic, and now we are discussing this endlessly.
        hi
        1. Per se. 6 February 2020 08: 23 New
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          Quote: Avior
          this is fiction from the book Trade with the Enemy
          The point is not in the book, which could be called anything, have errors, conjectures. Trade with the Third Reich was, and this is a fact, American capital has greatly helped the formation of the military power of Nazi Germany. For example, Henry Ford was a well-known anti-Semite, so it is logical that he was one of Hitler's most famous supporters outside Germany. In 1938, on his 75th birthday, he received the Nazi medal “Outstanding Foreigner”. The fact that, in addition to Hitler, Ford also collaborated with the anti-Hitler coalition, completely fits into the famous saying of Harry Truman.
          “If we see that Germany wins, then we should help Russia, and if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and let them kill as much as possible, although I do not want under any circumstances to see Hitler in the winners under any circumstances.” circumstances. None of them keep their word.


          Most importantly, Hitler would never have created the Third Reich, had not pumped up military power if he had not been allowed to do so, having closed his eyes to all the restrictions of Versailles, moreover, having given Hitler Austria and Czechoslovakia, further, practically all of Europe. All for the sake of sufficient potential against the USSR. The rest, from the crafty one, is the “strange war”, this is the evacuation of the British from under Dunkirk, for which Hitler stopped the advance of the German troops for almost three days.

          Yes, the States needed to find a reason to enter the war (although the American people did not want this), and for this they provoked Japan to attack. Pearl Harbor became a litmus for righteous anger and an excellent occasion. Just, the Yankees didn’t calculate a bit, the Japanese modified torpedoes for shallow water, and got armor-piercing bombs by simply welding stabilizers to large-caliber artillery shells. Therefore, instead of the alleged farce, the Yankees got a pogrom, losing virtually the entire linear fleet in the Pacific Ocean.

          Alexander Samsonov exaggerates a little, attributing all the "villainy" to the United States, do not forget about the British crown, the United States only its overseas miscarriage, an elephant in a china shop, bouncer, in the service of the true masters of world capitalism, and this is not only the Yankees, and not even only the British "queen-queen" of the Anglo-Saxon world, this is the Jewish lobby, and the owners of transnational corporations, all those who have become the de facto master of the world capitalism system, even if the United States is at the center of it. On the whole, Alexander is right, capitalism is an absolute evil, and this should be understood without comforting the illusions that once in capitalism, having picked it up from the dump of history, modern Russia will be allowed to live in capitalism and be free of its laws, be independent of its world the hosts.
          1. Avior 6 February 2020 08: 43 New
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            Samsonov does not exaggerate, he composes smile
            I think dragging this book is simply a bad tone in the discussion. But other....
            The issues that you raised, they have long been discussed, including on the site.
            Truman said these words in 1941 immediately after the outbreak of the war, at that time he was a pawn in American politics, completely different ones decided. And, mind you, a few days before this, the USSR was completely friends with Germany, and Truman's position for America was quite logical, albeit cynical.
            But Roosevelt decided, and everything went completely different.
            The fact that America was building something in Germany, so it did the same in the USSR, they actively participated in the same Dneproges. But after the outbreak of the war, there were no fiction from the book.
            The fact that Ford at one time in the 1920s supported anti-Semitic views, so already in 1927 he wrote an open letter
            As a man of honor, I consider it my duty to apologize for all the evil deeds I have committed with respect to the Jews, my fellow citizens and brothers, and I ask them for forgiveness for the harm that I caused them for no good reason. I renounce insulting accusations against them, since there was a lie in my actions, and also I give a full guarantee that from now on they can expect from me only a display of friendship and goodwill. Not to mention the fact that pamphlets that were distributed in the United States and abroad will be withdrawn from circulation.

            His views are personally his views, and not official state policy.
            The same Ford restored the USSR - Ford's Fordson - Putilovets - the first Soviet tractor, the Gorky Automobile Plant, Moskovsky - he had a hand in it.
            And if you pull from the history of individual pieces, and even add frank lies, as the author of the book did, you can prove anything, especially if the reader wants to believe without checking
            hi
            1. Per se. 6 February 2020 10: 43 New
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              Quote: Avior
              The same Ford restored the USSR
              Sergey, let's first decide. Germany, after the First World War, fell under the restrictions stipulated by the conditions of the Versailles Peace. In particular, there were sharp restrictions on the army and navy, many types of weapons were generally banned. The Soviet Union did not have such restrictions in the treaties. If desired, whether it was, it was easy to track any cooperation that allowed the creation of weapons prohibited for Germany. Moreover, Hitler slam as soon as violations were revealed. Nothing of the kind, all eyes were closed, although England and the United States were in the first category of those who worked out the conditions of Versailles restrictions.

              Nazism and fascism, then and now, is the West’s favorite "antidote against communism, Hitler was needed against the USSR, the Third Reich was to become anti-USSR, so that if we do not destroy the development of communism from Russia, then weaken the Soviet Union, that Hitler and worked for the West. The destruction of the USSR was the main thing, but the fact that we cooperated with the Germans ... We also collaborated with Italians, so what? Perhaps the main mistake was that there could have been a hope that the German workers' National Socialist Party was closer to us than the bourgeois governments of Europe and America ... Hope for peace with an antagonist, antipode, mortal enemy could not give anything good.

              Yes, ordinary Americans, the British, died at sea, in the air, on the earth, fighting Nazism, but for all ghouls like the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, other moneybags of those in power, these were "fighting dogs" dying for their owners, who they made bets, received colossal super-profits in the war, which was needed for this. Here, too, it must be distinguished, there was the American people, and there was a lot of capital, and these are two big differences.

              The Soviet Union did not die to a small degree because such as Nikita Sergeyevich again believed in the possibility of peaceful coexistence with a deadly enemy, an antagonist, and decided to flirt with the West. Gorbachev brought this to the finals of a great country. Now they are trying to prove that some kind of independent, "parallel" capitalism is possible for Russia, without control and dependence on the West, on the masters of this already existing, world power pole.

              Of course, I express only my opinion, and in any case, thank you for your attention and opposing arguments.
          2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 26 New
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            The USA had its own goals in the war, England had its own and they didn’t share their plans. request
            1. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 12: 12 New
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              Quote: Mavrikiy
              The USA had its own goals in the war, England had its own and they didn’t share their plans. request

              Yeah ... and ABC-1 is a fiction, there really was nothing like that. smile
      2. figwam 6 February 2020 10: 44 New
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        Quote: Mathafaka
        America of the 30s didn’t want any war, it was a society of isolationists,

        Yeah, 8 aircraft carriers of isolationism)))
        1. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 12: 19 New
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          Quote: figvam
          Yeah, 8 aircraft carriers of isolationism)))

          And this is so that no one would even dare to encroach on American isolationism and the American "sphere of co-prosperity." smile
          All the more so isolationism in the USA was understood within the framework of the Monroe Doctrine, according to which both America were the zone of exclusive interests of the USA.
        2. Octopus 6 February 2020 12: 57 New
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          Quote: figvam
          8 aircraft carriers

          1. Is that the 8th? Langley or something, an aircraft carrier? Hornet, by the way, on December of the 41st skies. Kimmel has 3 (three) aircraft carriers versus 6 for Nagumo.
          2. Do you even know that the aircraft carrier of that period, according to all kinds of admirals of the King, is a reconnaissance ship under the main forces?
          1. figwam 6 February 2020 13: 11 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Is that the 8th? Langley or something, an aircraft carrier?

            For some reason, without referring to your opinion in the United States, Langley was considered an aircraft carrier.
            Quote: Octopus
            Do you even know that the aircraft carrier of that period, according to all kinds of admirals of the King, is a reconnaissance ship under the main forces?

            Yes, of course, they still go around the world and scout.
            1. Octopus 6 February 2020 13: 34 New
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              Quote: figvam
              Langley was considered an aircraft carrier

              Seaplane transport since the 37th year.
              Quote: figvam
              still go around the world and scout

              With you it is clear, Nimitz is not distinguished from Langley.
            2. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 13: 36 New
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              Quote: figvam
              For some reason, without referring to your opinion in the United States, Langley was considered an aircraft carrier.

              Only until 1936, when he wore tail number CV-1. After that, “Langley” changed the type to “air transport” and the tail number to AV-3.
              Quote: figvam
              Yes, of course, they still go around the world and scout.

              And what does today's tactics of using AB have in the 30s?
              In the 30s of the last century, AB was entrusted with two main tasks:
              1. Scout with the main forces of the squadron. In this case, first of all, the AB had to detect the same AB of the enemy. Because the second task was:
              2. Counterintelligence - the destruction of enemy reconnaissance and its carrier / carriers. AB was to be the first to detect the enemy’s AB at any cost and strike at them, “blinding” the enemy squadron.
              In addition, the AB had to finish off the damaged "big pots" of the enemy and work along the coast.
              The main striking force of the USN and its backbone were considered battleships.
              1. Octopus 6 February 2020 17: 13 New
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                Quote: Alexey RA
                In addition, the AB had to finish off the damaged "big pots" of the enemy and work along the coast

                The Americans are not very happy with this. The British were compelled to finish off wounded animals or to brake the escaping enemy. Bismarck will not let you lie.
                But the idea that aviation can independently be the queen fields at least waves - Japanese. Through this success, through this new tactic, massaging AB and Alfastrike.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                It was the fleet, because the army in the person of the eccentric MacArthur had its own plan and its own direction.

                Well, actually MacArthur offered a reliable and relatively cheap solution. But Nimitz’s plan is to create an utterly never-before-seen marine grouping for unbelievable money. He could have worked and shortened the war by striking across the ocean directly to the Japanese islands, but the Americans chose both plans at once. And they inconceivable inconceivable money in the fleet, and lost time and tens of thousands of people from palm to palm.
                1. Alexey RA 7 February 2020 13: 36 New
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                  Quote: Octopus
                  The British were compelled to finish off wounded animals or to brake the escaping enemy. Bismarck will not let you lie.

                  They simply had no choice: high-speed LCs are an expensive pleasure, so they will have to fight, including the “Nelsons,” “Lizas,” and “Eras.” And in order for these LCs to catch up with the enemy, they need to slow down.
                  Well, RN could not afford eleven high-speed post-Washington LCs. smile
                  1. Octopus 7 February 2020 13: 57 New
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                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    eleven high-speed post-Washington LCs.

                    Do not understand. Americans have twelve, unless you count Alaska and Guam as one.
                    The British have nine, minus Wangard, Hood, Ripals, Duke, there are five left. Three Germans, three Italians, but I am inclined to consider that 5 English is more than 3 Italians and three such Germans.

                    Or is it about pre-war ideas?
    2. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 06: 59 New
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      Quote: Mathafaka
      America 30s did not want any war

      America with its "loans" (virtually non-repayable loans) in 20-30. nurtured the German and Japanese military, and then began the arms race, the first to increase its military budget many times.
      In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this? The answer is obvious. After World War I, England and France became bloodless, they completely lacked drive, and Germany and Japan simply could not physically and economically claim the role of "world lords."
      1. Vasily Ponomarev 6 February 2020 07: 15 New
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        Quote: pmkemcity
        Quote: Mathafaka
        America 30s did not want any war

        America with its "loans" (virtually non-repayable loans) in 20-30. nurtured the German and Japanese military, and then began the arms race, the first to increase its military budget many times.
        In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this? The answer is obvious. After World War I, England and France became bloodless, they completely lacked drive, and Germany and Japan simply could not physically and economically claim the role of "world lords."

        show you who really spent the most on arms?
        1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 07: 34 New
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          Quote: Vasily Ponomarev
          Quote: pmkemcity
          Quote: Mathafaka
          America 30s did not want any war

          America with its "loans" (virtually non-repayable loans) in 20-30. nurtured the German and Japanese military, and then began the arms race, the first to increase its military budget many times.
          In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this? The answer is obvious. After World War I, England and France became bloodless, they completely lacked drive, and Germany and Japan simply could not physically and economically claim the role of "world lords."

          show you who really spent the most on arms?

          Бред полный! У России в 20-е г. и армии то не было! Кто рисовал этот мультик? Вы этими картинками хотите доказать миролюбие Америки? Почему начали с 1830 г., почему не с Рождества Христова или Троянской войны? К тому же все "вышестоящие" от Америки страны финансировались прежде всего, за ее счет.
          1. Fitter65 6 February 2020 12: 40 New
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            Quote: pmkemcity
            Complete nonsense! In the 20s, Russia didn’t have an army! Who drew this cartoon? Do you want to prove America’s peacefulness with these pictures?

            Not at all nonsense, the United States during its existence did not spend a ruble on weapons. laughing laughing good
            1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 12: 43 New
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              Quote: Fitter65
              did not spend a single ruble

              Accurate remark! drinks Just add - and not a penny!
              1. Fitter65 6 February 2020 12: 44 New
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                Quote: pmkemcity
                Quote: Fitter65
                did not spend a single ruble

                Accurate remark! drinks Just add - and not a penny!

                It will be more precise good drinks
        2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 44 New
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          Quote: Vasily Ponomarev

          show you who really spent the most on arms?
          Are you hinting at France? repeat
      2. Jack O'Neill 6 February 2020 07: 45 New
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        The Americans invested in the German economy not because they raised the 3rd Reich, but because they wanted to take their money from the UK and France, which they gave them a loan to WWII.
        And since France and Great Britain had virtually nothing to pay, the repayment of the loan depended on the reparations of Germany in France and Great Britain.
        Moreover, the United States gave Germany the same credit, but in the end it was severely broken off when Hitler sent everyone away for a long time.
        In reality, the United States ceased to support Germany even before the Nazis came to power, and after the Nazis came, the United States, strangely enough, actively condemned this, like Great Britain and France.
        If you do not understand, then I will say it easier; The United States simply did not let the German economy die, at least before it repaid loans and reparations!
        1. dSK
          dSK 6 February 2020 08: 33 New
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          Well done Samsonov - you can’t hide the truth!
          American director Oliver Stone, in an interview with RT leader and former Ecuadorian president Rafael Correa, said that the United States has become “the power of evil” for ordinary people.
          RT in Russian on January 30 at 20:39

          the director explained his idea. - I must say with regret (since I love my country!) That we have become a force of evil. We have become the power of evil for people, for those who want reforms, for those who seek to change things. For people! For ordinary people! And nothing comes of it. I know that will fail. This will return to us as a boomerang. There is a certain historical force in the world. "
          - And that said an atheist.
          1. dSK
            dSK 6 February 2020 08: 39 New
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            Director Oliver Stone called the United States "the empire of evil" and the "power of evil", which destructively affects "the history of mankind." He rebuked America for endangering the world in a nuclear war. "What we did with Russia is just awful," the director is sure and predicted the US fate of the USSR.
            the guest of the program drew attention to what "terrible things" the current incumbent president of the United States Donald Trump did, recalling the way out of the "nuclear deal" with Iran. However, Stone considers America’s exit from the “nuclear agreement".
            "He (Trump. - Ed.) Simply lied on this issue," the director explained. "
            Oliver Stone reproached the United States for exposing the whole world to the danger of nuclear war. "We show aggression by developing new nuclear weapons," - Correa's interlocutor lists, believing that such "will never end."
            1. dSK
              dSK 6 February 2020 08: 59 New
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              Newspaper.Ru Newspaper.Ru (05/02/20.)
              Putin: humanity has turned out to be a dangerous trait.
              "Unfortunately, today humanity has again found itself in a dangerous line: regional conflicts are multiplying, the threats of terrorism and extremism are growing, the arms control system is collapsing, the global economy is also in an unstable state, "said the head of the Russian Federation.
            2. Octopus 6 February 2020 09: 11 New
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              Quote: dsk
              Director Oliver Stone calls US "evil empire"

              American leftist is a completely unique natural phenomenon. Unforgettable Valeria Ilinichna, land in fluff, against their background was just the Dowager Empress.
        2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 59 New
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          Quote: Jack O'Neill
          If you do not understand, then I will say it easier; The United States simply did not let the German economy die, at least before it repaid loans and reparations!

          Do not go to school, you know everything yourself. repeat Какие репарации, какие кредиты? Речь шла о мировом господстве для США, а он Гитлер, Гитлер.... США и Англия вскармливали 3й рейх и СССР, но с разными целями. США для того чтоб рейх сокрушил Англию, а потом его добьет СССР. Английский сценарий : рейх гробит СССР, а потом демократии его к ногтю. США запустили свою игру : рейх напал на Англию, но потом произошол перехват и Англия всетаки бросила его на СССР.
          In life, everything is not going according to plan. The USSR was not defeated, but the USA is the gendarme of the world. request
      3. Octopus 6 February 2020 08: 34 New
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        Quote: pmkemcity
        America with its "loans" (virtually non-repayable loans)

        Non-repayable loans - this is Lend-Lease in the USSR, and the topic of its non-repayability was brought to the Americans by Stalin after the 45th year. Damned capitalists do not have the concept of "non-repayable loan", re-read the magazine Crocodile for the 1972nd year.
        1. Mordvin 3 6 February 2020 13: 50 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          re-read the magazine Crocodile for the 1972nd year.

          Where can I find one? Mnu only records have 70s.
      4. Alex_59 6 February 2020 08: 44 New
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        Quote: pmkemcity
        In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this?
        If the conclusion follows from this question that the United States was profitable, then it turns out that the USSR was the main accomplice. Because the USA and the USSR received the greatest profit as a result of the war. The Union is slightly smaller, the United States is slightly larger. That is, along the way, the USSR is also the culprit of WWII. Lord, what a heresy ...
        1. dSK
          dSK 6 February 2020 09: 06 New
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          В России только погибших 40 млн, пол страны в руинах.
          What cities were bombed in the States? - is not heresy?
          1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 09: 24 New
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            Quote: dsk
            is not heresy?

            Yes, the whole article is heresy. To read it, so the United States possessed such power that you wonder. Why even a war with such greatness? A delusional text in which if you exchange the United States for Russia and print somewhere in the Times, there will be excellent Russophobic garbage about Putin’s interference in the US election - chewing gum for housewives from Boston.
            The author is not even interested in what the US country was like in the 20s and 30s. What nafig manageable conflicts? What kind of intervention? In those years, their first task was not to lean back on their own. Depression, hunger, unemployment ... There were not those of the USA that is now.
            And how did it turn out that they beat everyone? Well, it happened like that. When Hitler started all this, he apparently did not assume that something would go wrong. But it has gone. If in the 30s someone in Paris or Berlin would say that in 15 years the USSR would control half of Europe, and communism would spread to half the world, they would send him to a psychiatric hospital. Is this poor Russia? Do not you say!
            Same thing with the USA. No one thought that a superpower with unprecedented influence in the world would emerge from a rank and file Western country, not the most powerful against the backdrop of Britain or France, lying in a deep crisis and self-isolation in a few years. So it happened.
            1. Bobrick 6 February 2020 10: 04 New
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              The United States was no longer an ordinary Western country in the 20s. At least in terms of infrastructure (industrial, transport, energy), the United States was superior to any other country, the number of cars per capita alone indicates this (in 1938 there were 231 cars per 1000 people, and this, after the great depression, in Russia this level appeared only in 21 century, in France for the same year - 80).
              Cars require roads, oil exploration, heaps of refineries and gas stations, automobile plants, steel, cast iron, rubber, lampposts and road signs, after all.

              В годы второй мировой войны американцы произвели половину всех вооружений в денежном выражении или примерно 44 %, у СССР и Германии примерно по 15%(один линкор в производстве только по стали стоит как танковый корпус).

              And it should have appeared just like that, from the “middle country” of the West, with zero economic growth after the depression, from the country, which in its best years yielded 7-8% of economic growth ?!
              Is this the magic of capitalism?
              1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 10: 16 New
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                Quote: Bobrick
                Is this the magic of capitalism?

                Well, let's say I exaggerated about the "ordinary country of the West", but my main idea is that it is impossible to judge by the current USA about the USA of that time. It was not such a steep and dominant country. Yes, their economy was powerful, but at the same time their problems were higher than the roof, and depression and isolationist policies ruled out scenarios like those described in the article. The USA did not steer the whole world as the author wants it.
                As for magic, there was magic. Thanks to the war and a certain policy of Roosevelt (in many ways, by the way, similar to that of Stalin), the USA reached a new level of economic and industrial power. But the USSR had its own magic - industrialization, after which the deeply agrarian and devastated country suddenly became a superpower with a nuclear bomb and astronautics.
                1. Bobrick 6 February 2020 10: 36 New
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                  There is such an approach in Western historiography that only the Germans are to blame for both world wars, and the Soviet Union will soon become the second, but this is not even close.

                  As an example, the Second World War, from the 33rd year Hitler Germany committed many violations of the Versailles Peace Treaty, from the beginning of the construction of the aviation and fleet to the occupation of the Rhine region. For each such violation it was possible to carry out an operation of “peace enforcement” (this was done with Paraguay in the 19th century, this was done with Turkey before the First World War), all the more so since the German army was 100 thousand people without heavy guns and tanks, and the army of France was the strongest in Europe, and even the armies of Poland and Czechoslovakia could calmly resist such a force.

                  Here questions really arise, and was it not the West that wanted a world war?
                  1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 11: 34 New
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                    Quote: Bobrick
                    Here questions really arise, and was it not the West that wanted a world war?
                    I agree that not only Germany is guilty. Rather, the immediate main culprit is Germany, but the prerequisites for the war were formed not only by it. Here the leading role belongs to France, Great Britain and even Poland. But certainly not the USA and not the USSR.
        2. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 09: 39 New
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          Quote: Alex_59
          If the conclusion follows from this question that the United States was profitable, then it turns out that the USSR was the main accomplice. Because the USA and the USSR received the greatest profit as a result of the war. The Union is slightly smaller, the United States is slightly larger. That is, along the way, the USSR is also the culprit of WWII. Lord, what a heresy ...

          What is the "profit" - 25 million dead, 50 million unborn, destroyed industry and economy, impoverished Europe and China, which must be fed with "Russian blood"? Unless the Judeo-Masonic adherents of the world revolution rubbed their hands ... So they were a link in the chain of American politics.
          1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 10: 25 New
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            Quote: pmkemcity
            What is the "profit" - 25 million dead, 50 million unborn, destroyed industry and economy, impoverished Europe and China, which must be fed with "Russian blood"?
            You did not understand my thought. The author of the article and his supporters argue that the United States deliberately unleashed WWII to get a profit. I affirm that the profit that the winners received as a result of WWII was not their goal, this is the result not of their intentional efforts, but of the mistakes of the real culprits of the war - Germany and allies. That is, the United States did not start a war, but being drawn into it squeezed the maximum out of this situation. And in this sense, the USSR was in exactly the same position - the USSR did not start a war, but being drawn into it, and having suffered serious losses, in the end, too, tried to squeeze the maximum benefit out of what happened. The United States and the USSR are in a similar position in this sense, but this of course does not mean that the benefits and damage received in the war are identical. Of course, the USSR suffered much more, and the benefits received are less than those received by the United States. But still - the difference between the USSR of 1938 and the USSR of 1948 is unbelievable. In the 38th, it is almost a third world country, little influencing and with the opinion of which few people reckon. And in the 48th, it is one of the two most powerful countries on the planet.
            1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 10: 39 New
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              Quote: Alex_59
              You did not understand my thought.

              Strongly disagree with you. The USA started a war. If you are not lazy, read about the relationship of the United States, for example, with Japan in the prewar years. And if you are able to at least somehow extrapolate what you read, then I assure you, you can certainly compare it with the current US policy with regard to Russia - it's just tracing paper! American imperialism simply led Japan to the slaughter. Japanese society, lacking a little philosophical culture and intoxicated by the Russo-Japanese and World War I, was simply not able to understand the whole picture of what was happening.
              1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 11: 43 New
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                Quote: pmkemcity
                Strongly disagree with you. The USA started a war.

                Roosevelt did not hold a gun at the temple of the Japanese emperor when he decided to launch an invasion of China or send aircraft carriers to bomb Pearl Harbor. The blame definitely lies with the Japanese.
                Or another example. You are an American. You walk along the street and suddenly you see how a Japanese is killing a Chinese with a knife. Then he chases after the Korean and cuts him. Finally, she runs up to you and stabs you, but you are a dexterous cowboy and having survived this blow you cut down the Japanese. In the next scene, you are sitting in court, and the Japanese says: I am a naive fool, an American provoked me, and because of this I killed two people and cut him myself too. I ask you to justify me, and all the blame lies with the American. And the court takes his side, justifies the killer of several people, and sends you to an electric chair. Or in the White Swan. Do you think that in this example everything is logical and correct? laughing
                1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 12: 07 New
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                  Quote: Alex_59
                  I ask you to justify me, and all the blame lies with the American. And the court takes his side, justifies the killer of several people, and sends you to an electric chair. Or in the White Swan. You think that in this example everything is logical and correct

                  Illogical. As a result, as Gleb Zheglov said, a criminal community arose, called the gang in the common people. And the American was the leader in this gang, as the Japanese acted on the direct instructions of the latter and in his interests.
                  The Japanese should be given a spot as a class-physical element, and the American to the highest degree, as the enemy of all mankind.
                  Unfortunately, now this is just a refusal of assistance - a fine of 800000 rubles. Article 125 of the Criminal Code
                  1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 12: 17 New
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                    Quote: pmkemcity
                    As a result, as Gleb Zheglov said, a criminal community arose, called the gang in the common people. And the American was the leader in this gang, as the Japanese acted on the direct instructions of the latter and in his interests.

                    As Sharapov said - we are employees of the MUR, we have no right to defame. So you need proof. And you do not have it. ))) Just as there are none of these Poles who groan that they are guilty at the beginning of the war of the USSR, and not Hitler. )))
                    1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 12: 59 New
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                      Quote: Alex_59
                      So you need proof. And you do not have it.

                      I have no proof. She is in history:
                      The Annals magazine wrote in October 1938: “... Of all the economic factors, there is one that China could not have foreseen. The Chinese people could not assume that America would help Japan in this war. "The United States is sending more strategic raw materials to Japan than to all the rest of the world."

                      The law on US neutrality, passed by Congress, actually turned out to be the law on aid to aggressors. He played a significant role in promoting Japanese aggression. Even the New York Times admitted: “Under the guise of neutrality, this law establishes a policy that in some cases assists Japan and deprives China of our assistance. This law gives foreign states the right to decide with whom we should trade ”(1).

                      Former US Secretary of State Stimson put it even more specifically. He stated in the fall of 1937: “At present, the Japanese aggressor is receiving support from the United States and the British Empire. However, we are not just helping Japan. Our help is so effective and great that without it, Japanese aggression would be unthinkable and would cease very soon ”(2).

                      Indeed, the United States has become the main military supplier of Japanese imperialism from the very beginning of the Japanese invasion of China. Therefore, the American press itself stated that the Japanese captured the capital of China in 1937 only as a result of American economic assistance. The American publicist Harry Paxton Howard wrote in his article “The Future of the Far East”: “In 1937, the Japanese could not have forced the Chinese to cleanse Nanjing if it were not for the active economic assistance from the United States.” Right there, Howard recognizes the enormous role that American politics played in the development of Japanese militarism in general. “The supply of Japan with military materials for conducting aggressive wars did not begin in 1937 ... Indeed, for several generations, the United States has been the vital economic force of Japanese militarism” (3).
                      In 1937 alone (mainly in the second half of this year, when Japan invaded China), American oil trusts delivered 35 million barrels of oil to Japan. A significant part of it was transported from the United States to the warehouses of the Japanese military departments on American tankers.

                      In 1937, Japan imported 2 million grams of iron and steel scrap for its military industry from the USA and the British Empire - 4 times more than in 1936. In the same 1937, the USA sold machine tools and machines to Japan, mainly for military factories, more than 150 million yen. In 1938, the United States sold even more oil, scrap iron and steel, machines and machine tools, motor vehicles, airplanes, lead, and copper to Japan than in 1937.

                      In 1939, US exports of strategic materials and equipment to Japan increased even more. In 1939, the Americans equipped the Japanese Kawasaki aircraft plants with their new machines. American experts, seconded by Lockheed and Douglas, arrived in Japan in May 1939 to consult on issues of mass production of aircraft. The Americans participated in the construction of Japanese military airfields, American exports to Japan in 1939 exceeded $ 232 million and amounted to 7,3% of all US exports. US imports from Japan in the same year reached 7% of total imports (6).

                      In addition to exporting military materials to Japan, large American firms also delivered military-strategic materials to Manchuria - directly to the warehouses of the Kwantung Army, aimed against the Soviet Union. This was even noted by US Secretary of State Hull. According to the US Department of Commerce, the export of strategic military materials from the US to Manchuria in 1937 and 1938. increased by more than 5 times compared with 1936. Only through Dairen was it imported American military materials worth $ 16 million in 1937 and $ 17 million in 1938 against $ 3,5 million in 1936 (7).
                      The United States also remained the most important market for Japanese goods, absorbing more than 40% of Japanese exports (not counting the countries of the “new block”).
                      At the same time, American trade with unoccupied regions of China was expressed in completely insignificant figures. The vast majority of US imports to China from the fall of 1937 went to ports occupied by the Japanese army, and thus again fell into Japanese hands. In any case, this part of the import did not have any significance for the military economy of unoccupied China. All US exports to both occupied and non-occupied regions of China in 1938 amounted to only $ 35 million, and exports to Japan - $ 240 million.
                      The British government and the English monopolies both carried out their policies in this spirit. England concluded in particular an agreement with Japan on Chinese customs in the spring of 1938, and provided tonnage for the transport of Japanese troops and military cargo to China.
                      Under an agreement on Chinese customs, the British pledged to transfer customs revenues in the occupied regions of Japan, thus depriving China of one of the sources of financing its defensive war and turning this source to financing Japanese aggression. The income of the Japanese invaders from customs in 1938 was already about 100 million yen. In the same 1938, the export of strategic materials from the British Empire to Japan amounted to about 20% of all Japanese imports of these materials (11). (67% of all imports of military materials were imported from the United States in the same year.) Up to 40% of all Japanese exports (excluding the “new block” countries) went to the British Empire.

                      Of the 1,8 million tonnage used by Japan in December 1937 for the transfer of troops and military materials to China, half belonged to foreigners, including the British - 466 thousand tons. A very large amount of the English tonnage was chartered by the Japanese in 1938. Thus, the British shipowners provided substantial assistance to the Japanese aggressors.
                      The largest Kailan coal mines in Northern China, controlled by English capital, from the autumn of 1937 supplied coal mainly to the Japanese occupiers in China. London banks provided these mines in 1938 with a loan of 1 million pounds. Art. to expand their production.
                      1. Alex_59 6 February 2020 13: 17 New
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                        Quote: pmkemcity
                        Annals magazine wrote
                        The name of the magazine clearly characterizes the quality of such proofs. laughing I believe that if you believe the press so much that you consider it a source of evidence, then you believe the statements of the American press about Russia's interference in the US election? Or do you prefer to believe the press selectively, how is it profitable for you?
                        Ну даже если так, то я читаю в этой излишне масштабной цитате о торговле США с Японией. А с чего бы Японии не торговать с США в 1938 году? Мы кажется в то же время торговали с Германией. Что это доказывает? Неужели раз мы торговали с Германией мы тоже виноваты в начале ВМВ? А ведь в США это делает частный бизнес, которому президент США не указ, не то что в СССР. Мало ли с кем они торгуют. И из статьи видно что торговля продолжалась после нападения Японии на Китай. И опять же - ну и что? Мы торгуем сегодня и с Украиной, и с США. Хотя США гнобят наших союзников (Иран) и даже бомбят (Сирия), а Ukrainians сами знаете чего. Так это мы виноваты в том что все именно так происходит? А немцы уже Польшу съели, а мы с ними торговали и в 1939 и в 1940 году. Ну и? СССР в чём-то виноват что ли?

                        In short. There are Nuremberg and Tokyo tribunals. Where black and white is carved who is to blame and who is the winner. There, they did not use “anals” as evidence, but documents and witnesses. So far, the decisions of these tribunals have been recognized. The USA and the USSR are not guilty. Germany and Japan are guilty. So decided the international tribunal. It's silly to argue with that. Anyone who claims to be guilty of the United States denies the decisions of these tribunals, which means he denies that the USSR was the winner. I do not think that this makes common sense. No need to undermine the decisions of these tribunals, because we stand on them too. And they want to push us out of there even without it.
                      2. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 13: 37 New
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                        Quote: Alex_59
                        The USA and the USSR are not guilty. Germany and Japan are guilty. So decided the international tribunal. It's silly to argue with that.

                        Long words only upset you! In jurisprudence there is such a thing as "grief for the vanquished." No one called Germany guilty. The following were found guilty:
                        On October 1, 1946, the International Military Tribunal sentenced:

                        Sentenced to death by hanging:
                        Hermann Goering,
                        Martin Borman (in absentia),
                        Ernst Kaltenbrunner,
                        Joachim von Ribbentrop
                        Wilhelm Keitel,
                        Alfred Rosenberg,
                        Hans Frank,
                        Wilhelm Frick,
                        Julius Streicher,
                        Fritz Sauckel,
                        Arthur Zeiss-Inquart,
                        Alfred Jodl.
                        To life imprisonment: Rudolf Hess, Walter Funk and Erich Raeder.
                        To 20 years in prison: Baldur von Schirach and Albert Speer.
                        To 15 years in prison: Konstantin von Neurath.
                        To 10 years in prison: Karl Dönitz.
                        Justified: Hans Frice, Franz von Papen and Hialmar Schacht.
                        The tribunal accused the SS, SD, Gestapo [14] and the leadership of the Nazi party of criminal activity.

                        The Nazi cabinet, the General Staff and the High Command of the Wehrmacht (OKW) were not recognized as criminal organizations [7].
    3. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 31 New
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      Well, where is England bleeding? Spent a little war, but the empire stood like a rock. In 1929, it closed its colonial markets from the United States, which intensified, and the United States wished to destroy the empire.
      1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 10: 30 New
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        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Well, where is England bleeding? Spent a little war, but the empire stood like a rock. In 1929, it closed its colonial markets from the United States, which intensified, and the United States wished to destroy the empire.

        Then it sank into a great depression ... Everyone was dependent on the United States, and the markets were closed to survive at least somehow.
      2. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 12: 27 New
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        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Well, where is England bleeding? Spent a little war, but the empire stood like a rock.

        Just compare the state of the Island Empire symbol - Royal Navy - before the WWII and after the WWII. A multi-power standard, dozens of battleships - where is it all? In 1931, after another reduction in spending on RN, it even came to rebellion on the "big pots."
        1. Octopus 6 February 2020 13: 09 New
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          Quote: Alexey RA
          A multi-power standard, dozens of battleships - where is it all?

          And where did it all go, sorry? While the Marylands are building, Americans + Japanese are weaker than the British alone, if we count only superdreadnoughts. Then they are relatively equal, but two on one.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          the next reduction in RN expenses came even to the rebellion on the "big pots".

          So there is Prime Minister MacDonald, the laborer. To raise the socialist revolution is the very thing.
          1. chenia 6 February 2020 15: 00 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            And where did it all go, sorry?


            Потери Британии в ПМВ существенные. Посмотрите численность населения в 1913-14 годах и в 1920. Ужас - минус 4 млн (ну там и испанка помогла). Ну и материальные потери. Это только у РИ был прирост населения 1,2-1,5 млн/год.
            And in WWII they had a freebie (but the empire was not preserved).
            1. Octopus 6 February 2020 15: 07 New
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              And I do not argue that the PMV for Western Europe is heavier than WWII. It was about the fact that Britain was lost somewhere after it. No, I’m not lost at all.
              1. chenia 6 February 2020 15: 20 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                No, not lost at all


                Согласен. Парадокс в том что в после ПМВ они влияние и империю сохранили. с большими потерями. А в ВМВ все было с точностью наоборот.
                Конечно вины США во ВМВ почти никакой. А вот бриты завязаны по полной. Даже франки тут на вторых ролях (ну не было у них проливов с Германией). И особой уверенности не было, что Германия двинет на СССР сразу (идея стравить СССР и Германию была заманчивой), а не сначала тылы зачистит. Но бриты убедили.
                1. dSK
                  dSK 6 February 2020 16: 03 New
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                  Harry Es Truman (1884 - 1972), 33rd US President (1945-1953 from the Democratic Party), Baptist, high-ranking Mason (in 1959 he was awarded an honorary award in honor of 50 years of service to the Masonic Order:
                  "If we see that Germany wins the war, we should help Russia, if Russia will win, we should help Germany
                  и let them kill each other as much as possible"(wikipedia);
                  1. dSK
                    dSK 6 February 2020 16: 29 New
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                    John Davison Rockefeller, founder of the huge oil empire Standard Oil Company, Rockefeller Foundation and many other companies:
                    "The American rose can be grown in all the splendor of its beauty and fragrance, only mercilessly pruning weak sprouts around."
                    - he became the richest man in the world, at one time, his condition at the time of his death was 1,4 billion US dollars (face value of 1937) or 1,54% of US GDP. Adjusted for inflation, The New York Times estimates its wealth at around $ 305 billion in 2006 equivalent.
                  2. Octopus 6 February 2020 17: 00 New
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                    Quote: dsk
                    let them kill each other as much as possible

                    . but in any case, I do not want to see Hitler a winner. Neither one nor the other can be trusted in anything.

                    This is an absolutely reasonable position. Truman then strongly regretted that he had forgotten these very words in Potsdam.
                    1. chenia 6 February 2020 18: 37 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      Truman then strongly regretted that he had forgotten these very words in Potsdam.


                      And where did he go? The senator could chat, whatever. the president is no more.
                      End the war with Japan alone? Moreover, territorial problems (Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands), the Japanese would have surrendered the USSR (if only they had not climbed into the war).
                      Опираться на прежние договоренности (так и Трумен был ими связан), но СССР мог тянуть сколько угодно (имел право, ослаблен мол после страшной войны, и это можно понять). а заодно получать по ЛЛ немерено (и куда штаты бы делись?).
                      And to gain a foothold in Europe (communists everywhere, they basically fought with the Nazis). while the states are connected. At the same time help China (Mao). And the Japanese are encouraging, portraying a mediator (they would have been grateful for that, if only they had not beaten).
                      And if you transform the words of Truman, and put in the mouth of Stalin (well, you understand) then how?
                      Here Trump (except for the nuclear ace) was with Stalin.
                    2. Octopus 6 February 2020 19: 55 New
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                      Hm. You're trying to get me to set foot on the crooked path of altistory.
                      Quote: chenia
                      if the words of Truman transform, and put in the mouth of Stalin

                      Mr. Truman spoke, and Comrade Stalin did. Or are you not aware of the already mentioned rialpolitik of 1939-1941?
                      Quote: chenia
                      End the war with Japan alone?

                      War with japan was finished alone. No the participation of Soviet forces in Downfall never not supposed to.
                      Quote: chenia
                      at the same time getting on LL is not measured (and where would the states go?).

                      The sane part of the Americans demanded that LL be stopped in the fall of the 44th. Deliveries to the USSR no longer contributed to the defense of the United States. There were serious conversations with Stettinius on this subject after the war.

                      Quote: chenia
                      Rely on previous agreements (and Truman was bound by them)

                      Neither Stalin, much less Truman was bound by any agreements.
                      Quote: chenia
                      communists everywhere

                      In France and Italy.

                      Hang. First of all, in the USA itself.
                      Quote: chenia
                      At the same time help China (Mao).

                      It was because of Mao that Comrade Stalin was not allowed to go into Asian affairs for a kilometer.
                      Quote: chenia
                      reassure mediator

                      And what the hell is such an intermediary for the Americans? What is Secretary of State Byrnes getting paid for?

                      You seem to have a poor understanding of how much Americans lost to Comrade Stalin in the 45th.
                    3. chenia 6 February 2020 20: 43 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      and comrade Stalin did. Or are you not aware of the already mentioned rialpolitik of 1939-1941?


                      That's what it was, let the guys eat the dish that they themselves prepared. Even giving up the pact would be a stupid move. And the fact that the soyuznichki turned out to be liquidish no one could have foreseen.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      The war with Japan was over alone


                      Oh well. Sound please land of the battle. Гаудалканал не предлагать (армейская операция). да и если такое соотношение потерь, то мне жаль американцев (хотя не очень). Сухопутные операции американцев это нечто. Они и остров без японцев брали так себя поубивали, что и противника не надо.
                      And what would happen when millions of groups clashed scary to think.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      The sane part of the Americans demanded that LL be stopped in the fall of the 44th.

                      Мы до лета 1943 г (Курская дуга) получили только 6-8 % ЛЛ (всего 26%-28%).
                      And after the war, they somehow managed to implement a nuclear program. and space. and nuclear submarines to build and, moreover, it was necessary to restore the destroyed and still helped the allies. At the same time, the Yankees put in Korea. And what is interesting is completely without LL. Thank you, though.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Hang. First of all, in the USA itself.


                      Да обострение классовой борьбы. А тут некоторые либерасты сетуют на 1937 г. Антагонисты однако.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      because of mao


                      It would be good for the Americans (especially with such a commander as MacArthur) to undo the Chinese land. Oh well.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      And what the hell is such an intermediary for the Americans?


                      So I say, Comrade Stalin did not finalize.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      how much Americans lost to comrade Stalin in the 45th.


                      And they could have done more. Glory to comrade To Stalin! I knew that you would appreciate this historical figure.
                    4. Octopus 7 February 2020 00: 40 New
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                      Quote: chenia
                      In-in and it was necessary,

                      Yes Yes. Stalin and Truman were right. But only comrade Stalin could realize his ideas.
                      Quote: chenia
                      Oh well. Please voice the land battle.

                      The war with Japan was finished by oneself. To arrange a land company in peacetime is to the USSR, Manchuria.
                      Quote: chenia
                      American land operations are something.

                      You are right, with rare exceptions it is very well executed. Unlike Europe. The scale of action feasible for the Americans made itself felt, the division corps.
                      Quote: chenia
                      And what would happen when millions of groups clashed scary to think.

                      Yeah. Poor Japanese
                      Quote: chenia
                      Until the summer of 1943 (Kursk Bulge) we received only 6-8% of LL (only 26% -28%).

                      It's about the autumn of 44th, the Belarusian operation is over.
                      Quote: chenia
                      And after the war, they somehow managed to implement a nuclear program

                      I seem to have already mentioned the need for radical measures in relation to the Comintern.
                      Quote: chenia
                      and space. and nuclear submarines to build

                      From the Great Victory to another famine in the USSR, 1,5 years. At the same time, God sent comrade To Stalin one useful thing in Washington after another.
                      Quote: chenia
                      At the same time, the Yankees put in Korea.

                      You have not mixed up, for an hour, who inserted whom? There is a draw in geography and 4: 1 in losses (moreover, 2/3 of the Coalition’s losses are Yukoreytsi).
                      It should be noted that neither Truman, nor Eisenhower and Bradley have grown wiser since the 45th year.
                      Quote: chenia
                      Yes aggravation of the class struggle.

                      What does the class struggle have to do with it? The communist Wallace, vice president of the United States, had nothing to do with the class struggle.
                      If you are not yet in the know, Soviet power is the enemy of the workers and peasants. Soviet power is a friend of university talkers and newspaper scribblers. Both Marx and Lenin are publicists by profession, not workers and peasants. Mao is such a convinced, fanatical loafer.
                      As for the workers and peasants, if a friend of the USSR Roosevelt told the peasant Eisenhower in more detail about the Soviet approach to grain procurement, then the latter, probably, at the very sight of a leather jacket would have grabbed a gun.

                      Gallows is, of course, good, but gallows alone cannot win hybrid wars.
                      Quote: chenia
                      It would be good for the Americans (especially with such a commander as MacArthur) to undo the Chinese land

                      And where did you get the idea that the Americans themselves need to get into China? Before Truman, in pursuit of Eastern Europe, surrendered the USSR to Chiang Kai-shek, Mao did not have much chance. What comrade Mao was for fruit, according to his further successes in peaceful work, it is not difficult to imagine.
                      Quote: chenia
                      So I say, Comrade Stalin did not finalize.

                      I did not understand what he was going to modify here. Unless he would have pissed off Americans a little earlier than real. In real life, the Americans began to glance at the holster closer to the 46th year, incidents with Turkey and Iran.
                      Quote: chenia
                      And they could have done more.

                      Well, they could, of course, have more, of course, a simple matter.
                      Quote: chenia
                      Glory to comrade To Stalin!

                      Shame on American jerks.
                    5. chenia 7 February 2020 11: 08 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      with rare exceptions, very well executed


                      With terrifying superiority. the loss ratio is not impressive. It is at sea that the Yankees eventually began to win with a crushing score. And are they ready for three Japs to lose one of their fighters (well, if the Japanese fought to the limit, like the Germans).

                      Quote: Octopus

                      It's about the 44th fall, the Belarusian operation is over

                      With the same end result, LL still saved a lot of the lives of our customers. Definitely.
                      But seeing how the Germans resisted, and projecting onto the Japanese (also stubborn guys), the Yankees concluded that without the USSR, victory would be very expensive (and LL is real penny, in comparison with the possible help of the USSR).

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Yeah. Poor Japanese


                      Yes, and they really did not know how to fight (but do not occupy perseverance).

                      Quote: Octopus
                      before another famine in the USSR 1,5 years


                      The echo of the last terrible war. Depressed and Americans were starving and ready to work for a bowl of soup. And this is with overproduction. Feel the difference?

                      Quote: Octopus
                      There is a draw in geography and 4: 1 in losses (moreover, 2/3 of the Coalition’s losses are Yukoreytsi).


                      Потому как американцы даже при таком соотношении не готовы были к большим потерям. Тут воля и стойкость.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      You are not yet aware

                      I know.
                      Quote: Octopus
                      about the Soviet approach to grain procurement,


                      Hunger in great depression. (And if about the system, then famine in Ireland.)
                      In order to carry out industrialization, they took credit (yes forcibly) from the peasants, in the 70-80s they began to give back.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      surrendered the USSR also to Chiang Kai-shek, Mao had no particular chances.


                      Here, for sure, something new. So I handed over. what China represented at UN Taiwan.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Shame on American jerks.


                      А вот тут полное согласие!!! Наконец наши взгляды совпали!!! drinks
                    6. Octopus 7 February 2020 13: 04 New
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                      Quote: chenia
                      loss ratio is not impressive

                      And then you are not, and this is not so. In Russia, talking about the ratio of losses somehow should not be out of hand, it would seem.
                      Quote: chenia
                      if the Japanese fought to the limit like the Germans

                      And they lost a lot on the Germans?
                      Quote: chenia
                      comparison with the possible help of the USSR

                      Are you having trouble reading? USSR help never not planned, the idea was to wave the Yalta piece of paper - diplomats, not the military.
                      Quote: chenia
                      depression and the Americans were merling

                      And a lot died? Another fan of the great historian Borisov, the discoverer of the Roosevelt famine?
                      Quote: chenia
                      Because the Americans, even with this ratio, were not ready for big losses

                      Who told you that they were unprepared? The story about a million American soldiers was just invented in order to write them off, so to speak, in advance.
                      Do not confuse the real Americans of that time and the cinematic image of a hippar conscript who fled to Canada from Vietnam. The readiness of the Americans for the losses greatly surprised the British.
                      Quote: chenia
                      70-80s began to give

                      Leaving behind your brackets your moral character, killing several million people on credit, from the thesis of "repaying debts" to collective farmers in the 80s, I conclude that you did not see the late Soviet village.
                      Quote: chenia
                      So I handed over. what China represented at UN Taiwan

                      Speaking of who was an American (and Soviet) ally in WWII.

                      And what about the UN? Let me remind you that all of mainland China has been controlled by rebels since 49 years old.
                      Quote: chenia
                      And here is the full agreement !!!

                      Still would. From the point of view of modern man, Stalin is the enemy, but Roosevelt is a traitor, this is different.
                    7. chenia 7 February 2020 16: 08 New
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                      [quote = Octopus] And they lost a lot on the Germans.

                      Did they fight?
                      Немцы в легкую раскатали бы их летом 44-го (я уже писал о боевых действиях союзников до лета 1943 в Европе). Но у немцев к этому времени (генералитет) была главная мысль - to whom to give up? (driven into their head the Red Army.
                      And while Hitler after the assassination attempt, this thought (it didn’t disappear, but was not so openly manifested) was beaten out, time was lost. and the Ardennes are doomed. Which is basically good. saving the lives of our soldiers.

                      [quote = Octopus] was never planned, [/ quote]

                      Павлины говоришь (ну в смысле дипломаты). Это вам Макартур рассказал? Ну, это тот. кто в корейскую требовал ядерную бомбардировку. А без нее (и РККА) не воевалось, силенок не хватало.

                      [quote = Octopus] And a lot died? [/ quote]

                      In abundance. And when every gram of grain was taken into account, and we bought machines and equipment for it. Industrialization has been carried out, and this is the basis of the country's general existence. Just an understanding of the imperfection of the world at that time (and today too) made it possible to implement this as soon as possible. And then there is the crop failure, and the machinations of Kasyor (for the reason that he and the group of leaders were punished).

                      [quote = Octopus] that they were unprepared [/ quote]

                      Корея и Вьетнам! Хотя если вспомнить Форрестола, то да (тут главное таких выще второго этажа не пускать и на окна решетки ставить), те всегда готовы погибнуть.
                      .

                      [quote = Octopus] that you didn’t see the late Soviet village. [/ quote]

                      Ha. The country produced 500 thousand tractors per year. about 10 thousand combines, and a bunch of any agricultural farm. technicians.
                      To whom?
                      Cattle were bought from the population more expensive than meat was sold. Fuel, electricity penny.
                      С сельским хозяйством не был связан, но попал на уборку урожая (был офицером, а СА привлекали на это мероприятие). Так вот. там где есть хозяин (председатель колхоза или директор совхоза) супер порядок. Доярки с золотыми зубами и норковыми шапками, на курорт к морю (там база есть, пусть несколько покосившихся домиков,. но кусок берега захватили). Производственные предприятия (цех по сборки блоков для телевизоров!!!) Как вам такое? и куча техники. Заказана авторота (100 машин), а это хозрасчетная организация (никогда не думал, что таким образом в армии буду зарабатывать. правда давали только премии, но большие), т.е. за это тоже платить надо. И справлялись.
                      The houses for the collective farmers are two-level (well, they were just starting to build here). Yes, and rewards rained down. And a rather barbaric attitude towards technology (the lads in the Army after DOSSAF, and even more carefully) they need to choose funds.
                      Well, if the chairman drinks and the whole village with him, and ten years without a crop then -YES.
                      This is the beginning of the 80s. And you see, you were not lucky to be born in a normal village. Happenes.

                      [quote = Octopus] who was an American (and Soviet) ally in WWII. [/ quote]

                      Are you talking about Poles? (London government).
                    8. Octopus 7 February 2020 19: 51 New
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                      Quote: chenia
                      Did they fight?

                      Suddenly.
                      Quote: chenia
                      light would roll them in the summer of the 44th

                      No rolled out. I will say more, if you take Day D without moving back in the alternative - the Germans have no chance at all.
                      Quote: chenia
                      the main idea is who to give up

                      No surrendered. It is ridiculous to say, but the man who at the very last moment tore Berlin from the hands of the Allies and gave the Red Army turned out to be Walter Wenck (although, of course, before that the very last moment the Americans themselves dug, they should have reached the Elbe already in the 44th, but screwed up).

                      Of course, this is the fault of the Americans and specifically Roosevelt. His (personally his) idea of ​​unconditional surrender did not allow to establish, um, a constructive dialogue with the German opposition.
                      Quote: chenia
                      MacArthur told?

                      And who do you think planned Downfall?
                      Quote: chenia
                      that one. who in Korean demanded a nuclear bombing. And without it (and the Red Army) did not fight, the strength was not enough.

                      Che you suffered.
                      1. Where is Korea and where is WWII.
                      2. Where did you find the Red Army in Korea.
                      3. What there was not enough strength for him.
                      4. MacArthur was absolutely right. American plans of the time generally did not allow a limited war, only total. Accordingly, he demanded to act according to these plans, there are no others. Why are there no others? The question is not to him, but to Truman and the General Staff - Eisenhower, then Bradley.
                      Quote: chenia
                      when every gram of grain was counted, and on it we bought machines and equipment

                      Once again I see how a Stalinist exchanges dead children for machine tools, I am surprised again.
                      By the way. On these machines, the Soviet government made 16 thousand T-26 and BT tanks, which, to hell, disappeared, as if there were none.
                      Quote: chenia
                      Kashior’s machinations (for the reason that he and the group of leaders were punished).

                      Comrade Kosior and a group of Soviet leaders were shot for being a group of not even Soviet and not leaders, but Polish saboteurs and wreckers who were malicious to undermine Soviet power, return the bourgeois and, probably, the tsar. And with the little people they did everything right, there are no questions.
                      Quote: chenia
                      Korea and Vietnam

                      What's wrong with them? Do you even know that for the Americans, these two senseless wars = Hitler's losses?
                      Quote: chenia
                      The country produced 500 thousand tractors per year. about 10 thousand combines, and a bunch of any agricultural farm. technicians.
                      To whom?

                      To the landfill.
                      Quote: chenia
                      funds must be selected.

                      Yes
                      Quote: chenia
                      Milkmaids with golden teeth and mink hats,

                      I understand you correctly that if a woman 50 years later could afford a hat and a visit to the dentist, you will call it pay for the famine?
                      Quote: chenia
                      Are you talking about Poles?

                      I'm talking about the Homildan, whom Truman surrendered to the Communists. But you are right, the Poles with the Czechs are the same.
                    9. chenia 7 February 2020 21: 59 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      Suddenly.


                      And I recall, Dunkirk, Dieppe, Cyprus. Africa, Sicily, Italy. But not impressive.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Germans have no chance at all


                      This is not the merit of the Allies, and not a refinement of Himmler. A causal relationship since July 20, 1944. and the "slowdown" of the generals on this theater, you do not catch? It seems that they specifically wanted to lose.
                      And guess from three times who brought them to such a state (do not offer bombing — in 1944 the Germans had the highest military output).

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Funny to say

                      Fun hanging on the string of the piano does not work.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Che you suffered.


                      Did not catch? Without the help of an “argument” (in this capacity, either the Red Army or the AB), it is impossible to complete the matter. This is about strengths.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Polish saboteurs and pests,


                      Of course, did you doubt it?

                      Quote: Octopus
                      made 16 thousand tanks T-26 and BT,


                      Yes! Therefore, we won, which we did a lot thanks to Stalin.
                      And because of the high military they were lost. But they won the time. You know the end result, I hope.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      To landfill


                      Well, what is so primitive? There is little comfort. I agree. But the function performs. and a fairly reliable technique (well, if in the right hands).

                      Quote: Octopus
                      pay for the famine?


                      The population of Ukraine in two years began to increase. But the commies left and suddenly in 30 years of the abundance and triumph of liberalism, the population began to disappear.
                      В 1991 - 52 млн. За 30 лет 1960-1990 население увеличивалось на 2,3 -2,5 млн. И при кровожадных коммунистах было бы под 60 млн. А сейчас 37. Ну и где тут мор. Кстати и станки и заводы все пр....моргали ,болта скоро не выточим

                      .
                      Quote: Octopus
                      Truman surrendered to the Communists.


                      И этот агент Кремпя? И не было на него Маккарти. Вашингтонский НКВД тоже синиц ловил (за что спрашивается доллары получали?)..
  • Mavrikiy 7 February 2020 00: 34 New
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    Quote: Alexey RA
    A multi-power standard, dozens of battleships - where is it all? In 1931, after another reduction in spending on RN, it even came to rebellion on the "big pots."

    Глупость пишете, уважаемый. До ПМВ в числе ЛК состояли и БР (40 штук). и что во ВМВ их тащить? request
  • Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 09: 21 New
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    Turn on your head and listen to what smart people say, for example A.I. Fursov.
    1929, the Director of the Central Bank of England Montague Norman closes the British Empire market from the outside world, that is, he closed the British Empire from the United States, and more precisely - closed the Rothschild zone from the Rockefeller zone. The main task of the United States was the destruction of the British Empire. And Hitler was to destroy the British Empire, and Stalin was to strike a blow to already victorious Hitler and solve this problem for the States.
    America could not close. fool America needed markets to get out of the crisis, and Canada, Australia, closed 25% of the world’s market.
    1. Pavel57 11 February 2020 22: 01 New
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      Churchill surrendered the empire to the States.
  • Mestny 6 February 2020 10: 21 New
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    Quote: Mathafaka
    America of the 30s did not want any war, it was a society of isolationists, they did not need any war, much less in Europe.
    Рузвельт из кожи вон лез, чтобы помочь Советскому Союзу в 41.
    And now he is accused of starting World War 2.
    Class.

    Well, how should the same justify the collapse of the communist ideology. How? Yes, simple. Enemies If not for them, then we would be hoo!
    1. Arlen 6 February 2020 14: 56 New
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      Quote: Mestny
      Well, how should the same justify the collapse of the communist ideology.

      What does the communist ideology and the outbreak of the Second World War?
      Quote: Mestny
      Enemies If not for them, then we would be hoo!

      This is your enchanting expression is generally not clear. Can decrypt?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Arlen 6 February 2020 14: 52 New
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    Quote: Mathafaka
    America of the 30s did not want any war, it was a society of isolationists, they did not need any war, much less in Europe.

    But it is precisely the actions of Washington, London and Paris, which the Treaty of Versailles laid down the reasons for the outbreak of World War II.
    Quote: Mathafaka
    Roosevelt went out of his way to help the Soviet Union at 41.

    Roosevelt in 1941 was not up to the USSR, he had Japan at hand, according to the actions of which it was not clear who she would attack, either opening the second front to the USSR, or the United States - drawing them into a world war.
  • Pavel57 11 February 2020 22: 00 New
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    America did not want war, but it provoked Japan to start the war with oil sanctions from Indonesia.
  • Mathafaka 6 February 2020 06: 25 New
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    Germany unleashed the war. And the German society itself.
    Ordinary Germans did not consider themselves losers after the First World War. Germany was driven into humiliating restrictions on the fleet, on the army, forced to pay reparations, to give part of the disputed lands to the French.
    As a result of this, the idea of ​​revanchism ripened in German society, the Germans believed that they had been deceived and that there was no defeat in World War 1, hence Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way.
    1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 06: 50 New
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      Quote: Mathafaka
      hence Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way

      If the stars light up. then someone needs this.
      1. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 09 New
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        Quote: pmkemcity
        Quote: Mathafaka
        hence Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way

        If the stars light up. then someone needs this.

        And they do not loosely unfasten on kerosene, without it, a star cannot be ignited, alas.
        1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 10: 12 New
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          Quote: Mavrikiy
          And they do not loosely unfasten on kerosene, without it, a star cannot be ignited, alas.

          Immediately few people unfasten. They launch into space mainly on credit. Who the future has arrived, and someone is laying the soul.
    2. Vladivostok1969 6 February 2020 07: 08 New
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      [quoteIn July 1933, Adolf Hitler and his associates in the NSDAP finally captured Germany. This was preceded by struggle and intrigue, culminating in the burning of the Reichstag on February 27, 1933. After this event, Hitler received the post of Reich Chancellor, dissolved the government and announced new elections, which the NSDAP already won unconditionally. Subsequently, all other parties were banned, and the Nazis completely and completely received Germany.] [/ Quote]
      Here he is Hitler’s democratic parish.
    3. Octopus 6 February 2020 08: 17 New
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      Quote: Mathafaka
      Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way.

      Hitler not came to power in a democratic way. He was appointed chancellor of Hindeburg and his gull. Young, energetic, that’s all.
    4. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 07 New
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      Quote: Mathafaka
      Germany unleashed the war.

      Precisely and won it! For, after 50 years, the USSR was gone, England was on the sidelines of history, and Germany was the captain of the EU. fool Clinic around the corner.
    5. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 12: 31 New
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      So Marshal Foch immediately after signing the Treaty of Versailles accurately predicted - how it all ends:
      This is not peace, this is a truce for 20 years!

      True, Foch believed that the reason for the new war would be that Germany after the surrender to the WWII was not completely finished off - the terms of the Treaty of Versailles were for him "betrayal."
  • Ryaruav 6 February 2020 06: 27 New
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    as the west is falling on us so the author decided to go the same way
    1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 07: 44 New
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      Quote: Ryaruav
      the author decided to go the same way

      Do you know a different way? Announce!
    2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 13 New
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      Quote: Ryaruav
      as the west is falling on us so the author decided to go the same way

      Well no. The author simply told the truth, which was hidden from us for political reasons and politically correct understanding.
  • Dimy4 6 February 2020 06: 31 New
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    Свой "главный приз" штаты получили без войны, при помощи кучки предателей. А предателей казнили во все времена и во всех странах, наши же живут припеваючи, наглости хватает еще и советы давать, нынешние власти строгое наказание к ним не применяет, в розыск не объявляет (суды тут ни причем абсолютно, они у нас вообще не причем) прикрываясь непонятным бормотанием о мирах и дружбах, разоблаченных иностранных разведчиков по первому щелчку высылают в родные пенаты чуть ли не с почетным эскортом. Так вот простой вопрос на кого такие власти работают? Или же у них есть свой хозяин?
    1. Mestny 6 February 2020 10: 22 New
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      Quote: Dimy4
      So the simple question is, for whom do such authorities work? Or do they have their own master?

      "Who about what, and lousy about the bath."
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 February 2020 06: 41 New
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    In short - bullshit. And if a little more developed, then Roosevelt so "hated" the USSR that he considered it possible to leave under his influence the post-war old Europe. That is, there was no NATO in his plans. But, crap, he died at the wrong time ...
    1. Octopus 6 February 2020 08: 31 New
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      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Roosevelt so "hated" the USSR that he considered it possible to leave the post-war old woman-Europe under his influence

      )))
      If the current defenders of the Great Victory from the libels of the East Europeans were less under the bastard, this would be of great help to them. It is quite difficult to yap at Stalin, who used this Eastern Europe, and at the same time lick the Allies, who sent this very Eastern Europe to Comrade. Stalin in the sauna, just like that, according to the old military friendship.

      So far, the same Czech activists cannot afford to ask not “Why do we have a monument to Konev?”, But “Why do we not have a monument to Patton?”.
      1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 12: 17 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        Stalin, who used this Eastern Europe, and at the same time lick the Allies, who sent this very Eastern Europe to Comrade Stalin in the sauna, just like that, according to the old military friendship

        Joseph Vissarionovich didn’t bring “this Eastern Europe” to the “sauna”, he washed it, washed it from the ram, steamed it and put it to bed in a clean bed. But your “Soyuznichki” isn’t just in the sauna, in the gateway, they dragged this Europe by promising “bugs”, and fucked them without paying and turned the purse inside out.
        1. Octopus 6 February 2020 13: 18 New
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          Quote: pmkemcity
          started a bathhouse, laundered from a ram, steamed and put to bed on a clean bed

          Found in the trash, washed, cleaned of cleanings, and they draw bills for the occupation to us.
          Quote: pmkemcity
          fucked up without having paid and turned the purse inside out.

          Yes Yes. On the example of two germanium, this is very clearly visible.
          1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 13: 23 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Yes Yes. On the example of two germanium, this is very clearly visible.

            Do not jerk. Just look at one Germany. I will not speak about the Bulgarians, Yugoslavs, and other dishonesty.
            1. Octopus 6 February 2020 14: 19 New
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              Quote: pmkemcity
              Just look at one Germany

              What is wrong with her?
              Quote: pmkemcity
              Bulgarians, Yugoslavs and other dishonesty I will not speak.

              Why not talk? Here, Italy is bending on one side, and Albania is flourishing on the other side, liberated by the Communists from the Italian, I recall, occupation.
              1. pmkemcity 7 February 2020 05: 32 New
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                Why not talk? Here, Italy is bending on one side, and Albania is flourishing on the other side, liberated by the Communists from the Italian, I recall, occupation.

                Let's talk. Here they are, carriers of democracy:
                Pillars - this is what the locals called the unbridled robbers. As from a voracious locust, the population hides from them their last property and belongings. Robbing thieves is becoming increasingly difficult. Captured Italian soldier Carlo Dolsordo recounts:

                - When we were sent to scout, it was hellishly cold. In addition, we did not eat anything for three days. In the village where we stood, we were treated with contempt. The German officer called us cowardly pasta. I dared to say that we are hungry.

                “Get your own bread,” our commander answered.

                - And how to get it? Peasants hide bread, chickens and piglets from us. They look at us like thieves from a high road.

                Carlo Dolsordo eagerly reaches out with swollen hands for a piece of the offered bread, but does not have time to take it. He is ahead of the soldier of Lombardi Goshparo.

                Under curious circumstances, the junior lieutenant of the 20th battalion Pruzon Tranquilo was captured. With several of his friends, the same looters as he, Tranquilo went to the village "to have some fun", and at the same time to get presents for his beloved. But in the village the horde of Germans already hosted. Between the "allies" a brawl ensued. The Germans opened fire and killed one musketeer. Pruzon Tranquilo, without salty slurping, rushed to the bottom, got lost and fell into the hands of Soviet intelligence.

                Pruzon is annoyed. Thugs - "allies" hurt his pride:

                “Scoundrels,” he says indignantly at the Germans, “they want to take advantage of all the good alone ...”

                This is the philosophy of the robbers. That is their moral character.

                However, maybe you so imagined the Italians:




                [/ Center]
    2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 24 New
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      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      In short - bullshit. And if a little more developed, then Roosevelt so "hated" the USSR that he considered it possible to leave under his influence the post-war old Europe. That is, there was no NATO in his plans. But, crap, he died at the wrong time ...

      Действительно, бредишь земляк? Где США и где Рузвельт? Он думал о выгоде США и возможно планировал что то более для США выгодное.
      And he could give Europe to the USSR (delirium of course), he could plan, but not out of great love, only if there was a benefit. Which one? For example, we are stuck in Europe, and Asia with China, this is the sphere of interests of the United States.
      So to say: Having said A, speak B, otherwise you will be a liar.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2020 07: 13 New
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        Mauritius, well, honestly, I would go to learn history, huh :)))
        Well, where does the love, big or small? Roosevelt planned a world in which two superpowers would be in a state of cooperation, not confrontation. To this end, he tried to minimize the geopolitical contradictions of the USSR and the USA in the post-war organization he proposed. And in this he made a completely unprecedented decision, assuming to agree that Europe would enter the sphere of interests of the USSR, instead of which the United States would receive priority in Asia. This is an excellent solution for both the USSR and the USA, because the USSR still has no vital interests in Asia. And such a distribution of spheres of influence could really save the world from the Cold War, minimizing Soviet-American contradictions. This is what matters. And not your child’s “did not give for free? So the enemy for life”
        1. Baloo 7 February 2020 11: 36 New
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          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Mauritius, well, honestly, I would go to teach history, huh?

          Для этого разрабатывались все эти планы бомбежки и войны против СССР, которая могла начаться уже в 1945 году? Шли бы вы сами со своим глобусом в библиотеку. yes
          1. Octopus 7 February 2020 12: 41 New
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            The Americans did not have such ideas in 1945. The very idea that friendship with the USSR somehow did not develop did not visit the Eisenhower General Staff only at the end of the 45th year, the Iranian crisis.

            It was a monstrous mistake, of course.
            1. Baloo 7 February 2020 12: 47 New
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              Quote: Octopus
              The Americans did not have such ideas in 1945. The very idea that friendship with the USSR somehow did not develop did not visit the Eisenhower General Staff only at the end of the 45th year, the Iranian crisis.

              It was a monstrous mistake, of course.

              as well as armed coups in more than 90 countries after the Second World War, in which more people died in more than the first two?
              1. Octopus 7 February 2020 13: 08 New
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                Quote: Balu
                armed coups in more than 90 countries after the Second World War, in which more people died in more than the first two?

                By the ease in numbers, the hand of Soviet peace activists is incredible.

                You are right, there were enough coups. The most monstrous are Mao and Pol Pot.
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2020 12: 49 New
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            Baloo, consider the story, not fantasize about it. Then you will find out that all the bombing plans were already done under Truman.
        2. Mavrikiy 7 February 2020 13: 06 New
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          Andrew Well, honestly, would you go to learn history, but? Can you stop raving and write nonsense from the Amerov table with bows.
          1. Roosevelt was planning a world in which two superpowers would be in a state of cooperation USA fed the USSR to him cooperate? I repeat why they need it and what they wanted to fuck from us?
          2. agree that Europe will fall into the sphere of interests of the USSR, in return for which the United States would receive priority in Asia. This is an excellent solution for both the USSR and the USA, because the USSR still has no vital interests in Asia. Превосходное решение для кого? СССР восстанавливать всю Европу,, а США отдать сегодня Китай, а завтра Сибирь?
          3. And such a distribution of spheres of influence could really save the world from the Cold War, Вот то. fool The United States would have mobilized and armed the Chinese and thrown into Siberia before the 50's.
          4. So the enemy for life"No, you personally, friend. Because you don’t need a knife for a fool, you’ll lie to him in three boxes and do whatever you like with him. They promised Europe how to pass by, here’s a grabber ....... why do we need it.
          If it is so needed, be patient, Russia - the third Rome seems to be implemented.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2020 13: 33 New
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            Mauritius, such nonsense only indicates that you only heard about history from Samsonov. You DO NOT know anything about the history of those years. You managed to make a mistake literally in every sentence.
            Not for you, but for those who read this correspondence - I will answer in detail, but later, it is difficult to print large texts from a smartphone.
            But I'm afraid nothing will help you
            1. Mavrikiy 7 February 2020 16: 37 New
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              So am I about that. Our new Shpakovsky, we are looking forward to the pearl from you. As he wrote about knights and tanks, he was a lamp, due to illustrations. And how he took to sculpt the history of the USSR, vonism went. So you, while the fleet wrote-was in the subject, but for the USSR it seems ....... secret knowledge flooded. negative
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2020 23: 48 New
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                Quote: Mavrikiy
                but for the USSR it seems ....... secret knowledge flooded

                Well, they’re secret only from you :))))
                Quote: Mavrikiy
                The USA fed the USSR to cooperate with him? I repeat why they need it and what they wanted to fuck from us?

                The US did not “feed” the USSR. And close even. Before WWII, we had more or less normal trade relations with them (before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), which were aggravated by the terrible fear of the Americans that their military technologies would not float away to the Japanese. Therefore, they built factories for us, and sold machines as much as we like, but military cooperation did not come from the word "completely." Before the war, the United States didn’t particularly distinguish the USSR at all, then (surprise!) They were dominated by isolationist sentiments, fueled by problems in the economy, and the USSR was only interested in them as a buyer of certain groups of goods.
                So they didn’t feed anyone, and they didn’t want anything from us.
                Quote: Mavrikiy
                An excellent solution for whom? The Soviet Union to restore all of Europe, and the United States to give China today, and tomorrow Siberia?

                Mauritius, first, learn to distinguish between political influence and economic. Roosevelt did not intend to support the political independence of Europe, he considered it possible to agree with Stalin's decisive voice on political issues. But at the same time, of course, he did not refuse to participate in the development of the European economy. That is, no “recovery at the expense of the USSR” - Europe would live for itself as a conglomerate of militarily weak countries and would be afraid to sneeze without the permission of Vissarionych, and America would trade with Europeans, and even, perhaps, would implement a program of assistance to individual countries, because . in the end, this is a very winning investment.
                Secondly, Roosevelt was not going to take China at all - it’s a shame not to know! He saw the world of the future, consisting of 4 "watchmen" - the USA, England, the USSR and China, in which only the USA and the USSR would be superpowers. That is, he did not intend to somehow vassalize China, but, of course, he would not tolerate anti-American Chinese policy in Asia. And he recognized the same right for Stalin in relation to England.
                А вот чего тебе, Маврикий, никогда не понять, так это того, что Рузвельту наша Сибирь боком не упала. Не нужна ему была наша страна:))))) Ему нужно было совсем другое.
                Quote: Mavrikiy
                Here it is. fool The US would have mobilized and armed the Chinese and thrown into Siberia before the 50s.

                Во-первых, это - феерический бред воспаленного разума, уже хотя бы потому, что это было просто технически невозможно. Китай и так воевал до этого с японией, и не добился особых успехов даже против сравнительно малочисленной и откровенно слабо подготовленной японской императорской армии, при этом он тогда был весьма дружествен СССР. Рассчитывать на него как на военную силу, способную справиться, или хотя бы доставить заметные неприятности СССР мог только законченный шизофреник, а Рузвельт таковым и близко не был. Но самое главное - Рузвельту НЕ НУЖНА была конфронтация с СССР. Если была бы нужна - он тогда бы стремился получить дееспособных союзников, то есть сам бы консолидировал Европу в НАТО. Впрочем, я понимаю, Маврикий, что когда кровожадные американцы сидят в шкафу и под кроватью, то осознать простой факт наличия периода в истории, когда США вовсе не стремилась к конфронтации с СССР невозможно, и не жду от тебя этого.
                На самом деле Рузвельт был очень мудр. Он не выделял СССР до ВМВ из ряда других стран, но, когда в ходе ВОВ стало ясно, что СССР превращается в сверхдержаву, он встал перед необходимостью определить политику и позицию США в новом, изменившемся мире. И его выбор заключался в том, чтобы избежать военного противостояния. Он распланировал все так, чтобы уважить политические интересы СССР и дать нам спокойно развиваться, потому что именно это и было наиболее выгодно для США - не вести очередной горячей или холодной войны, а, разграничив политические сферы влияния, дать возможность развития собственной экономике, к услугам которой были бы азиатские рынки сбыта, да, в общем, и европейские в значительной мере тоже.
                In other words, Roosevelt chose peace, not war, and economic competition instead of military. And, in fact, all of this could well work if he lived even a little longer. Humanity really could have stepped into the golden age ... Alas, the great man left, and Pygmy Truman sat in his place, experiencing furious distrust and hostility towards the USSR. And instead of dividing the spheres of influence, the Cold War began.
                1. Mavrikiy 8 February 2020 02: 45 New
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                  Great Roosevelt, did not inspire "a golden dream" of mankind. Amen.
                  The design is crazy. An economy without politics does not exist.
                  В США царили изоляционистские настроения, подогреваемые проблемами в экономике. it is an enchanting delirium of the inflamed mind, if only because it was simply technically impossible.
                  Отделяйте мух от котлет. Закрыть свои рынки это всегда Развитые экономически страны готовы, как и залезть на чужие. И тут изоляционизмом не пахнет. Именно кризис 30-х заставил США и Европу
                  give us peace of mind
                  our golden dream. Ours, but not them !!! And who says that they dreamed about it and wanted to give it to us, that liberal, Andryusha.
                  Chinese hordes in Siberia, I went too far, but the options, the Hunguses quite frolic in our 20s.
                  I repeat, for especially gifted historians and economists:
                  America could not close. fool America needed markets to get out of the crisis, and England closed Canada, Australia, 25% of the world’s market.
                  Hence the war! Do not be dumb!
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 February 2020 09: 39 New
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                    Quote: Mavrikiy
                    An economy without politics does not exist.

                    That's it :))) And Roosevelt’s design was extremely economical - with his agreement, he opened up Asian markets for himself, without refusing European ones, since the post-war USSR could not carry out economic expansion.
                    Quote: Mavrikiy
                    Close their markets is always economically developed countries are ready, as well as climb into strangers. And here isolationism does not smell. It was the crisis of the 30s that forced the USA and Europe

                    Mauritius, study at your leisure the causes of the crisis in the USA of the 30s. I predict - it was a crisis of overproduction, that is, the United States produced more than they could consume. What is isolationism here? The isolationism of the USA of the 30s was POLITICAL, since they did not want to meddle in European affairs and did not need to have a say in them.
                    Quote: Mavrikiy
                    And who says that they dreamed about it and wanted to give it to us, that liberal, Andryusha.

                    Mauritius, it makes no difference to me who you consider me to be. For one simple reason, you haven’t yet grown up to count me.
                    But the FDR really did just that.
                    Quote: Mavrikiy
                    I repeat, for especially gifted historians and economists:

                    You do not jump from the question - we are talking about a post-war device according to Roosevelt's vision.
                    Quote: Mavrikiy
                    America could not close. fool America needed markets to get out of the crisis, and England closed Canada, Australia, 25% of the world’s market.

                    Do not fuck bullshit, it hurts. Australia and Canada in terms of purchasing power are completely insignificant against the background of European markets
                2. Octopus 8 February 2020 13: 46 New
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                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  In other words, Roosevelt chose peace, not war, and economic competition instead of military. And, in fact, all of this could well work if he lived even a little longer. Humanity really could have stepped into the golden age ... Alas, the great man left, and Pygmy Truman sat in his place, experiencing furious distrust and hostility towards the USSR. And instead of dividing the spheres of influence, the Cold War began.

                  )))
                  You are broadcasting a bit of schizophrenic late-Soviet propaganda. In this particular case, the bad American imperialists turned out to be good + bad Stalin (this is hard to believe, but in Brezhnev’s times, Stalin was considered so, peculiar, in general, let's not) turned out to be good in this particular case. Propaganda - it is always so eclectic.

                  But there is another view on these events.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Before WWII, we had more or less normal trade relations with them (before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)

                  You're lying. The moral embargo was introduced on 02.12.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX. And for the cause. For war crimes, Molotov’s breadbasket.
                  Naturally, this has nothing to do with US geopolitical interestswhat other geopolitics is there in the USA in Finland. PR measure, President of the United States for a high moral war. Naturally, this statement was nothing but pouting.
                  At 1940 In the US State Department, Soviet-American negotiations on trade and economic issues began. At the talks, the Soviet side raised the question of eliminating discriminatory measures by the US government, in particular about the obstacles that the US authorities posed in providing tonnage for Soviet cargo, in admission of Soviet engineers to aircraft factories etc.

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Therefore, they built plants for us, and they sold machines as much as they like,

                  Suddenly, capitalism encourages economic development, including industrialization, wherever it reaches. At least in the Reich, at least in the USSR. The notorious Chinese children, collecting an iPhone for Greta Gunberg with their fingers stained with blood, from whom the capitalists stole childhood, could tell the latter about this property of capitalism, but once.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Roosevelt was not going to take China at all - it’s a shame not to know! He saw the world of the future, consisting of 4 "watchmen" - the USA, England, the USSR and China, in which only the USA and the USSR would be superpowers

                  Yes. Unfortunately, his fantasies had absolutely nothing to do with reality, and existed only in his sore head and in reports from the State Department licking.

                  Because
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Roosevelt was actually very wise.

                  Roosevelt - American Putin. What he did well — he held on to power, climbed into the economy (crushed food with bulldozers, yes), destroyed political institutions by assigning geeks to them. The Roosevelt judge of the U.S. Supreme Court, Jackson, together with the executioner Rudenko, a member of the Donetsk special troika, is participating in the economic development of Germany from the 23rd to the 39th year, delivered from Dachau.

                  He did the rest through the ass. The top of his activity was, of course, the desire to make mankind happy. Without the three hundred-year-old British intelligence services, without at least some sane foreign policy bloc, even without a sane general staff. The isolationism you mentioned is, first of all, the absence of any understanding of what is happening abroad.

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  he faced the need to determine US policy and position in a new, changing world

                  This was a monstrous tragedy. That such a country (good, but absolutely self-contained) with such leaders determined the future of the world. And I determined.

                  Second Versailles.

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  And, in fact, all of this could well work if he lived even a little longer. Humanity could indeed step into the golden age.


                  Fortunately, at least something after Roosevelt was able to be fixed.

                  2/2 of the XX century has become a time of prosperity for countries in which:
                  1. Roosevelt's insanity in spheres of influence was able to be rolled back. NATO, the Marshall Plan.
                  2. Roosevelt's frenzy with decolonization was ignored. Canada, Australia.
                  3. Roosevelt's frenzy with the idea of ​​the peaceful coexistence of the two systems was offset by building a patriotic dictatorship. From the relatively mild one-party Japan, where the liberal democratic party depressed the Reds and sat in government for 50 years, through the military dictatorship in South Korea and Taiwan, to full-fledged personalistic fascism by Lee Kuan Yu.

                  All other 4/5 earthlings received Russian world do-it-yourself hell.

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  in his place sat a pygmy Truman, who had frantic distrust and hostility towards the USSR

                  You are not quite right. Truman managed to at least not aggravate the US slide into dictatorship and state capitalism. However, in the foreign policy aspect, he really was a pygmy. Missouri peasant what to expect from him. His Truman Doctrine is a humble capitulary boost.
                  In the recent past, totalitarian regimes were imposed on the peoples of a number of countries of the world. The United States government often protested coercion and intimidation, in violation of the Yalta Agreement, which took place in Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria. I must also say that similar events developed in a number of other countries.
                  .
                  We must take immediate and decisive action.

                  Therefore, I ask Congress to approve appropriations for aid to Greece and Turkey in the amount of $ 400 million for the period ending June 3, 1948.

                  To put it bluntly - the USSR has no place on earth - only Ronald Reagan could.
                  I believe we shall rise to the challenge. I believe that communism is another sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages even now are being written. I believe this because the source of our strength in the quest for human freedom is not material, but spiritual. And because it knows no limitation, it must terrify and ultimately triumph over those who would enslave their fellow man. For in the words of Isaiah: "He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might He increased strength But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary. "


                  After 8 years, the USSR was gone.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 February 2020 09: 37 New
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                    A very funny alternative-conceptual concept. Due to the fact that I am lying with 39,6, it is difficult for me to answer in a detailed manner, but if you wait another day, I will certainly do it
                    1. Octopus 10 February 2020 09: 56 New
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                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Very funny alternative conceptual concept.

                      )))
                      Oh well. Personally, it seemed to me that the alternative is that which was not there (the "Golden Age"), and the foregoing is a harsh real. But maybe I am poorly versed in AI. Get well hi
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Octopus 14 February 2020 08: 53 New
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                      About the lost message.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      However, the discussion on this can be stopped - until better times

                      )))
                      How to say.
                      Our dispute over Keynesianism in general and its implementation by the FDR in particular (see the Truman committee) is indeed quite a special one. However, if you have free time and epistolary inspiration, you could very well consider the Roosevelt effectiveness in detail on more familiar and pleasant material for you. Most likely, such an experience would be interesting not only in the format of comments.

                      Roosevelt, I recall, during the WWI served as deputy fleet minister, and in the presidential years continued amateurishly interested maritime affairs. Accordingly, we have the right to expect from him the level of not former seminarians, but a strong lover, for example, you (Putin has already been compared with Roosevelt, and you catch me, I'm not greedy drinks ) Minus afterglow, plus a seemingly higher level of available expertise.

                      What do we see? One Hornet for 5 years (including 4 years of a hybrid war with Japan) we put out of brackets, no one is obliged to be a prophet. Roosevelt's most enchanting proser in terms of building the fleet was, of course, start mass construction frigates PLO in April of the 43rd year. Europe fest, khe-khe, Roundup, khe-khe. The man himself personally dealt with Atlantic communications and German submarines last time.

                      But small frigates are of little interest to the public, so it is journalistic more profitable to deal with LK.

                      Here is the LC. From the time of WWII, Americans have known the limiting geometric parameters of LC, the channel gateway. Since the time of the Washington Treaty, they have not in the project, but directly in the iron, they have in their warehouses 16/50 guns, 14 "belt plates, with a power plant with 200K + hp (the latter on Lexington type ABs).

                      And now, after 16 years american administration пробивает в Лондоне рост ВИ именно до уровня панамакса. Собрали за эти 16 лет старую Саут-Дакоту+Худ, нет? Они же поузнавали, что почём, когда ехали в Лондон в 38-м?

                      5 (five, Karl!) Battleships laid down after the abolition of 35K under the old restrictions (and what! What kind of air defense was on the Dakota under the project? How did this Dakota and the Massachusetts fight in the 42nd?). Designed by Iowa fart steam, in which the armament happened you yourself know what.

                      Effective president, you say? Professional navy administrator, you say?
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 14 February 2020 23: 35 New
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                        Good day!
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Roosevelt’s most enchanting proser in terms of building the fleet was, of course, the beginning of mass construction of PLO frigates in April of the 43rd year.

                        Well, if you ignore that at the beginning of the war he had 99 “Whiskeys” and “Clemsons” in the EM or TSC version and dozens of old (but more modern than these) destroyers that from 1940 the USA had riveted 363 270-330 tons of RS -461, from which they were just waiting for PLO cabotage, ports and bases, and that, generally speaking, they began to sculpt their escort EMs since 1942 - not so a global failure.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        5 (five, Karl!) Battleships laid down after the cancellation of 35K under the old restrictions

                        Actually, four - the expansion of the terms of the London Treaty was signed on June 30, 1938, and Washington was founded earlier.
                        And about the Dakot ... compared to Carol, the project turned out to be more balanced and it should be borne in mind that designing an aircraft is a long process. At the time of the signing of the additional agreement on 45 kilotons, the South Dakota project had a place to be, and Congress allocated funds for the construction of 4 such ships. In such circumstances, there was no point in postponing the bookmark - the Dakota had already entered service in 1942, but they would start to redraw the project and reconcile it in Congress - and in 1943 they wouldn’t go into operation.
                        In general, the US Navy received a lot of not the best battleships and in 1942 they had more modern LK than any other country had. So I don’t see any failure here either. In a war, it is better to have 4 non-ideal LCs in the fleet than 4 ideal LCs on stocks.
                      2. Octopus 15 February 2020 05: 04 New
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                        You see, Andrew. Since you have a reputation for being knowledgeable in the history of the fleet, I would expect accurate formulations and would not like to deal with any naive distortions.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Well, if you ignore what he had at the beginning of the war 99 “Whiskey” and “Clemson” in the form of EM or TSC

                        Ignore. Flash dealers are a naval reserve for the Democratic Party and the government for scrap. I’m asking you not to remember the deal for the destroyers-base.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        riveted 363

                        2 pieces on December 9th of the 41st.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        which were just waiting for PLO cabotage, ports

                        1. I seem to be writing about Atlantic communications. Meaning tranceatlantic. 300 tons of VI.
                        2. Second happy times. Expected yes.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        EM they began to sculpt since 1942

                        Evarts was received by the fleet on April 5, 1943. And this is the ship of the English order, on which USNavi put a paw.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        not so global failure

                        Europ festival is canceled. It would have been canceled, with such a land army and aviation, but this does not justify any of the naval forces.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Actually, four - the expansion of the terms of the London Treaty was signed on June 30, 1938, and Washington was founded earlier.

                        no
                        1. For two weeks before.
                        2. The task of the Democratic Party and the government to knock out 45K from the colonialists and not a ton less was brought by the Yankees to London in March 38th. Actually, they didn’t knock anything out, they simply informed that the ultimate VI is now like this. After three months, they lowered business trips from the US budget for alcohol and dissolute women, while the British and French were discussing a new reality with each other.
                        3. Battleships of 45K are already in the Vinson act of May 38th, and what the British have not signed yet - let them move.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Compared to Carol, the project turned out to be more balanced

                        Caroline is just a mediocre decision by mediocre people. With the aftermath, it is obvious that the Americans needed a completely different balanced ship and absolutely no need for 16. "

                        Aftertaste could well be replaced by good expertise, decisive and competent decisions of big bosses.

                        But Dakota - wrecking and Trotskyism.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        keep in mind that designing an LC is a lengthy process

                        You say this as if we were talking about some kind of geological phenomenon. And why, in fact, this LC has not yet been designed since the 34th year, when Japan withdrew from maritime treaties? Can you expand the Panama Canal? Cannons in the warehouse mutate in railguns?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        would reshape the project, but reconcile it in Congress

                        You write it like this, as if Comrade Roosevelt was building 5 battleships “Soviet Union” in an open field and at the same time fighting with the pacifist Comrade Attlee in Congress. The real Roosevelt fought off the isolationists (everyone remembers this), who demanded to build as many pieces as possible in order to isolate themselves properly (no one remembers this).

                        Congress, I remind you again, took and unilaterally unilaterally increased London limits for the United States by 20%, writing the increase in VI battleships for the same paper, again, without any new agreements. These are the first three of Iowa. If the fleet had a ready-made 45K LC project, could it be possible to cough up the issue in the same May 38th? It is difficult to doubt, especially if you find some options for the money.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In a war, it is better to have 4 non-ideal LCs in the fleet than 4 ideal LCs on stocks.

                        I don’t know, accidentally or intentionally, you retell the case of the King, for some reason. America is a different country in other circumstances.
                      3. Liam 15 February 2020 22: 59 New
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                        Quote: Octopus
                        have a reputation for being knowledgeable

                        Thin
  • 16329 6 February 2020 10: 46 New
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    Просто не надо рассматривать США как единую систему, посмотрите на современный конфликт между «глубинным государством» и «Трампом». Этот конфликт был всегда, есть и будет, и в принципе он характерен не только для США. Просто там он выглядит наиболее ярко, так как государственные институты США традиционно слабее теневых корпоративных структур
    This explains the convolutions of US policy, cooperation with Germany, and then recognition and assistance in the industrialization of the USSR
  • Amateur 6 February 2020 06: 46 New
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    It was not otherwise that Poles with Ukrainians accidentally sneezed on Mr. Samsonov and infected him with the coronovirus "history
    1. Avior 6 February 2020 07: 29 New
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      Honestly, Mr. Samsonov has had this coronovirus in his head for so long that he himself sneezes on anyone
      smile
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2020 07: 17 New
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        Yes, and sneezes at us regularly: (((
  • pmkemcity 6 February 2020 06: 48 New
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    and loot the main prize - Russia

    All the same, for America, China was the main prize, and Russia was the main rival. It was precisely for the enslavement of China that throughout the thirties there was a struggle between the Chinese communists and the Japanese military set on them. Already during the war, America, seeing the impossibility of victory in China, forced England to abandon its colonial system in exchange for help.
    1. Mavrikiy 8 February 2020 14: 56 New
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      Quote: pmkemcity
      All the same, for America, the main prize was China, and Russia was the main rival. It was precisely for the enslavement of China that throughout the thirties there was a struggle between the Chinese communists and the Japanese military set on them

      Will we include logic, or what did Andrei say is the truth? request China in 1930 and 1990 is not an identity.
      In 1930, these were “colonial goods” and that’s all. What raw materials? What is the consumption market for tangerines in limousines? Europe consumers, the USSR - raw materials, here is a century-old ideal for England and the USA.
      1. pmkemcity 8 February 2020 17: 21 New
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        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Europe consumers, the USSR - raw materials, here is a century-old ideal for England and the USA.

        Your logic is that the British and Americans “in the face” create goods to satisfy the “ever-growing needs” of Europeans?
        They can do nothing but theft. The only desire of America and England was to rob someone. With beggar, and at that time there was simply nothing to take very passionate Russia, and even these crumbs would have gotten with great difficulty. But China is a potentially huge market and inexhaustible hard-working human resources (the words of one American billionaire, which he said to the question "how to make a billion," each Chinese needs to sell a pen worth $ 1). But Europe is a "rich Pinocchio", which has 5 soldiers, which can be easily obtained by hanging the log upside down.
  • Jack O'Neill 6 February 2020 06: 51 New
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    "Crusade" of the West against Russia. Who fought against whom in World War II? The official anti-Hitler coalition against Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and militaristic Japan. In real US unleashed this war against the whole worldto achieve world domination.

    Oooh ...

    World War I unleashed by “Western democracies” - the masters of Paris, London and Washington (Why did the masters of the West unleash the First World War) in order to crush the competitors within the Western project - the German world, destroy the Russian civilization (main prize) and the Ottoman Empire to further enslave the Islamic world.

    Austria-Hungary and Germany, no? Well, yes, the Americans are to blame for everything ... Uhhh ...
    Although, fantasy is a good thing ...
    In short, everything is very bad ...
    1. Nehist 6 February 2020 08: 46 New
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      Вообщето первую мировую очень хотели французы. У них были реваншисткие настроения после потери Эльзаса и Лотарингии (анологичные настроения перед ВМВ были у немцев) Кстати убитый Франс-Фердинанд был сторонником дружбы с Россией так что РИ наоборот должна была быть заинтересована в расследовании а не выгораживать так называемых братушек
      1. Jack O'Neill 6 February 2020 08: 48 New
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        In general, the First World really wanted the French.

        Let's be honest - the PMV wanted everything, everyone scratched their hands, but Germany and Austria-Hungary really started it.
        1. Nehist 6 February 2020 08: 55 New
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          I agree. But the most ready for it were, oddly enough, France and Britain
  • Plantagenet 6 February 2020 07: 19 New
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    "It is not surprising that in the 1930s, millions of demonstrations took place in the United States under socialist slogans. The police had to use machine guns against protesters, the government threw troops to disperse protests."

    And you can link to the use of police machine guns against the demonstrators. Not machine guns and pistols, namely machine guns. By the way, I wonder if the US police are armed with machine guns?
    1. Octopus 6 February 2020 08: 21 New
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      Quote: Plantagenet
      You can link to the use of police machine guns against the demonstrators

      Well, actually there were funny days when Mr. MacArthur operated tanks on American streets. But this does not suit the author, there was talk about benefits and raising the retirement age for WWII veterans
      1. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 13: 07 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        Well, actually there were funny days when Mr. MacArthur operated tanks on American streets.

        And also with infantry with joined bayonets, cavalry with sabers, he + used BOV (adamsite).
        In general, a wonderful company dispersed the veterans: MacArthur commanded everything, Ike had an adjutant, and Patton led the tanks into battle. Ike still unsuccessfully tried to persuade the boss to limit contacts with reporters - they say, it’s not a thing for the NHS to promote on the dispersal of its own citizens. smile
        Quote: Octopus
        But this does not suit the author, there was talk about benefits and raising the retirement age for WWII veterans

        EMNIP, there were not quite privileges there, and bonuses were given to veterans certificates for payments based on the results of PMV, which were to be paid within 20 years. But the depression came - and the veterans demanded their money.
        1. Octopus 6 February 2020 14: 13 New
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          Quote: Alexey RA
          they say that it’s not a thing for the NHS to publicize on the dispersal of its own citizens.

          For the field marshal of the Philippine army norms.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          depression came and the veterans demanded their money.

          Money from a book in a savings bank.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          tanks led Patton into battle

          Well, at least one American general managed to train the tanks in advance. This was then clearly visible.

          Nonetheless. According to official data, the stranglers of freedom shot 2 (two) protesters, two more accidental victims. So-so bloody Sunday Tuesday.
  • Monster_Fat 6 February 2020 07: 27 New
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    Well .... let's just say that the mechanism of war is not as simple as its author wants to show. Often, it is not "economic interest" that leads to them, but banal intransigence, the fear of "losing face", "just the human factor" and "chance." For example, the First World War actually was brought about by the Sarajevo shot, which was perceived in Austria-Hungary as a slap in the face of the empire from some “subhuman” plebeians. And then, it went off, according to the old Russian proverb (incidentally, which well describes the causes of the wars): "Word for word, fist on the table, and then for the knife." The fact that armed conflicts are far from being "economic reasons" is well shown in the excellent European mini-series "1864".
    1. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 11: 15 New
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      Quote: Monster_Fat
      in fact, it was the Sarajevo shot that led to the first world war

      The casus belli is just a formal occasion. The true reason is born in the Senate (if we talk about Roman law). The same is in this case. The reason for the outbreak of war was not the murder of the Archduke, but attempts to bite the South Slavic territories from Austria-Hungary. It’s just that the ultimatum for casus belli does not arise from random events, it is casus belli that use random (or as we can verify historically - and staged too) events.
  • Lamata 6 February 2020 07: 45 New
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    Let's just say that we also did not have a satisfying life, and the famine of 1930-31 was present and not only in Ukraine. My grandfather, out of 9 family members, survived by 1932.
  • Krasnodar 6 February 2020 07: 57 New
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    No, well, I can do that too ...
    The landing in Normandy was a blow to the international Russian superethros, who carried the red banner of justice to the European masses oppressed by the capitalists. For the sake of this fiend, chistogan and profit printed enough dollars doomed to collapse and, having built on these unsecured pieces of paper a fleet capable of halting the English Channel with sin and half, hit the German troops, which consisted of 12-year-old and 73-year-old Volkssturm soldiers. Quickly overcoming the resistance of the pioneers and retirees of the Reich, almost losing New York during the counterattack of the Wehrmacht's disabled people in the Ardennes, the Anglo-Saxon capitalists rushed across the Red Army, preventing the Russian civilization from conveying the ideals of justice to the peoples of France, Belgium and Luxembourg living under oppression of capital.
  • Free wind 6 February 2020 08: 03 New
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    Рузвельт показывает на карте место где вообще ничего нету. Карта какая то интересная. Канада и Аляска огромные, материковая часть США небольшая совсем. И В Сталин Рузвельта весьма уважал, собственно Рузвельта в америке называли тайным коммунистом, он провел ряд реформ выводя страну из кризиса, увеличил налоги на сверх доходы, снял налоги для бедного населения, ограничил олигархию и т. д. Возможно заставил Черчиля ( откровенного антикоммуниста и русофоба) оказывать помощь СССР.
    1. Was mammoth 6 February 2020 08: 15 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      The map is somehow interesting.

      The answer is simple. You are used to our map, where our country is in the middle. And, in the photo there is an American map, where their country is in the middle.
      Quote: Krasnodar
      No, well, I can do that too ...

      “I don't believe it!” Realism is not enough. wink Where are the Jews?
      "Strong" article, it is, of course! wink
    2. Krasnodar 6 February 2020 08: 32 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      Perhaps he forced Churchill (an outspoken anti-communist and Russophobe) to provide assistance to the USSR.

      I didn’t. June 22, 1941, learning about the German attack on the USSR, he told others: "We will win the war." I don’t remember the exact phrase, I quote from memory.
      1. Octopus 6 February 2020 08: 45 New
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        Quote: Krasnodar
        I don’t remember the exact phrase, I quote from memory

        Memory fails. Churchill did write this, but not on June 22, but on December 8.
        1. Krasnodar 6 February 2020 08: 52 New
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          No, the memoirs of colleagues are about words.
          1. Octopus 6 February 2020 09: 07 New
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            Quote: Krasnodar
            memories of associates precisely about words.

            What does the associates. Churchill wrote a lot himself, you can take and read. In June, he writes that the Soviet comrades finally got the stars, about which they had been warned for at least a year. But in December, yes, not entirely justified euphoria.
            1. Krasnodar 6 February 2020 09: 09 New
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              Read Beaver and Hastings)).
      2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 33 New
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        Quote: Krasnodar
        I didn’t. June 22, 1941, learning about the German attack on the USSR, he told others: "We will win the war." I don’t remember the exact phrase, I quote from memory.

        Then, too, from memory: Until June 22, a drunk Churchill in the evenings called to Stalin: "When will we declare war?"
    3. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 13: 16 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      Roosevelt shows on the map a place where there is nothing at all.

      And for me, this is how Roosevelt shows on the map the direction of the Pacific Fleet's offensive on Japan - frog jumps from the atoll to the atoll. smile
      It was the fleet, because the army in the person of the eccentric MacArthur had its own plan and its own direction.
  • smaug78 6 February 2020 08: 17 New
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    Everything is clear in the title - conspiracy theological nonsense from the ignoramus Samsonov laughing laughing laughing
    1. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 37 New
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      Quote: smaug78
      Everything is clear in the title - conspiracy theological nonsense from the ignoramus Samsonov laughing laughing laughing

      Boriska, did you go to school? Did you graduate from a history tower? Hitler thesis sculpted? So you trynd? Ukrainian KGEshnik, go to the hut.
      1. smaug78 6 February 2020 10: 50 New
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        Dvoechnik, Osil first, at least: E. A. Ivanyan. US history for universities. Then you will cheek and people laugh laughing laughing laughing
        1. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 11: 03 New
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          Quote: smaug78
          Dvoechnik, Osil first, at least: E. A. Ivanyan. US history for universities. Then you will cheek and people laugh laughing laughing laughing

          No, if Ivanyan himself taught to write "conspiracy thesis", then of course ... Excellent student with a diploma drenched in ketchup. fellow
        2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 11: 16 New
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          Wow Ivanyana mastered and did not forget how to read, well then at Harvard. fellowYou can look at Spitsin’s pictures, inquisitive. Textbook for high schools.
          1. smaug78 6 February 2020 11: 34 New
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            Funny, but a textbook for high schools. But this is not available to you, you learn from the inscriptions on the fence. Come on, keep laughing further while you're funny laughing laughing laughing
  • g1washntwn 6 February 2020 08: 25 New
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    Money gave new opportunities for the exploitation and appropriation of alien real resources. Former colonies and those who did not want to integrate into this system should have received their portion of cuffs. The non-military method and the revolutionary pill for the Russian Empire suddenly grew over the years into an independent ideology that began to threaten this new system of exploitation. All other movements in the West were aimed only at destroying this new and threatening ideology. The fact that the British and Americans openly supported Hitler's desire to eradicate communism is not even hidden. And after the defeat of the Nazis, the United States picked up this banner and carry it to this day. Despite all the clumsy efforts of the liberals, the final taming of Russia is out of the question. That's all the pies. The Third World War began immediately after WWII and continues to this day, just different methods and methods. A peaceful redistribution of property may not happen, everything and everything burns out, the Earth is one, from the window of this house you can only jump out into the abyss.
    1. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 39 New
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      Quote: g1washntwn
      The fact that the British and Americans openly supported Hitler's aspirations to eradicate communism is not even hidden.
      Mistake This drapes the true relationship between them and the causes of WWII.
  • pmkemcity 6 February 2020 08: 42 New
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    Where did so many "anti-Soviet" come from? In America, the night, in Israel and Europe, only woke up ... Is it really "awake"? So do not "watch" ...
    1. Krasnodar 6 February 2020 09: 02 New
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      Do not tell me the word "Israel." Israel divided the wall of genocide of Palestinian youths from their asses, Zaynab Abu-Tyz from Mahmoud Barabas .., the hot guy silently clenches his fists, hearing the dreary Eeyore through the wall ... Bitter girlish tears flow down Zaynab's mustache, remembering Barabas ... Never remember I have the word "Israel"!
    2. Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 10: 42 New
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      Quote: pmkemcity
      Where did so many "anti-Soviet" come from? In America, the night, in Israel and Europe, only woke up ... Is it really "awake"? So do not "watch" ...
      Precisely noticed. The company is coming. People need to be plunged into negativity and hopelessness. Salvage came from abroad or the new ministers came to life: how long to endure!
  • Arthur 85 6 February 2020 08: 47 New
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    Are they also a chapel?
    1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 09: 04 New
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      Quote: Arthur 85
      Are they also a chapel?

  • Mavrikiy 6 February 2020 08: 56 New
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    Washington needs to weaken the British Empire
    To be precise, dismantle the empire.
  • Maks1995 6 February 2020 09: 09 New
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    Interestingly, if we suddenly make friends with the United States and quarrel with China, will the media immediately accuse China of unleashing World War 2?
    1. Santa Fe 6 February 2020 10: 46 New
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      No, China has never done harm to anyone, has not waged wars of conquest in its recent history. It is obvious

      Our neighbor and partner, culturally and spiritually close, stably supporting all the initiatives of Russia at UN meetings.

      A partner who has established mutually beneficial cooperation, contracts for billions of rubles and RMB (“Power of Siberia” - 55 billion!)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Kolin 6 February 2020 10: 04 New
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    And along the road, reptilians with braids are standing! And silence!
  • Constanty 6 February 2020 10: 24 New
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    I would not go so far in conclusions as the author of this article, but there is no doubt that the US administration F. Roosevelt was striving for war. Unlike most Americans, by the way.

    In addition to forcing Japan to war, such harsh fuel sanctions were introduced. For a country devoid of its own sources at that time.

    Еще один интересный вопрос. На титульной фотографии показан лайнер нового поколения "North Carolina" . "North Carolina" (BB-55) и "Washington" (BB-56)были уже в эксплуатации, а в Перл-Харборе были
    только старые корабли . Новых линкоров и авианосцев нет - совпадение? Я так не думаю.
    1. Octopus 6 February 2020 12: 36 New
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      Quote: Constanty
      only old ships. No new battleships and aircraft carriers - a coincidence? I do not think so

      What place do you think?

      LC launched in the spring of the 41st, undergoing combat training. This is not Mikhalkov’s film, so that a shovel from a shovel is given out and cheers, on the attack. The new LCs and after a year are buggy (and the officers are cranky) are not childish. Take a look at the famous night fight of South Dakota and Washington with Kirishima.

      Quote: Constanty
      No new battleships and aircraft carriers - a coincidence? I do not think so.

      Of course not. The fact that the new LC, and AB, and KR, and submarines, and frigates PLO not built - this is no coincidence. This is the management class of the socialist Roosevelt.
      1. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 14: 30 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        The new LCs and after a year are buggy (and the officers are cranky) are not childish. Take a look at the famous night fight of South Dakota and Washington with Kirishima.

        Casablanca also had a marvelous case with another “SoDak” - “Massachusetts”: in the first battle, the battleship was de-energized from tremors during volleys of its own GK. laughing
        Trend, adnakka ...
  • Undecim 6 February 2020 10: 33 New
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    Даже во времена самых жестоких политических и военных противостояний, когда мир буквально балансировал на грани ядерной войны, даже тогда в СССР не опускались до печатания такого делирия, который извергает автор. Хотя карикатуристы не стеснялись изображать США и в таком вот виде, но под каждой карикатурой было конкретное событие или действие, а не экстрактированный из пальца поток фантазий. Ложь в целях пропаганды всегда считалась уделом "империалистических акробатов ротационных машин".
    1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 10: 51 New
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      Quote: Undecim
      Even during the most brutal political and military confrontations, when the world was literally balancing on the brink of nuclear war, even then in the USSR they did not go down to printing such delirium that the author erupts.

      Did you see the Soviet press? The author did not reveal anything new, he only recalled:
      “During the years of successful robberies of other countries and peoples,” Joseph Vissarionovich began his speech to party deputies in 1952, “the bourgeoisie of the West still allowed itself to be liberal.”

      “She defended liberal democratic freedoms and thereby created popularity among the people. Now (when there was already no one to rob, and one can’t live at someone else’s expense) there is no trace of liberalism ... There is no longer the so-called “freedom” of an individual, and human right is recognized only for those who have (the largest) financial capital. All other sections of citizens are considered “raw human material” suitable only for exploitation and nothing more.

      (During the looting and heyday of the countries of capitalism) the principle of equality of nations and peoples was also trampled. Now (it is replaced by the principle of force) - the full rights of the exploiting minority over the lack of rights of the vast majority of the exploited.

      (At the first occurrence of difficulties) the banner of bourgeois-democratic freedoms was thrown overboard. "
      “Now, the bourgeoisie sells the rights of independent nations for American dollars, and all the principles of freedom and even the screen of equality are completely thrown overboard ...”
      “They say that capital can live differently, that ruining the weak is the fault of leaders, that this is not a sentence of the system. This is not true. Average profit - there is a lower margin of profitability, and below it, capitalist production becomes impossible. In other words, it is ridiculous to think that the bigwigs of modern monopoly capital, capturing countries and turning them into colonies, enslaving peoples and starting wars, will try to provide themselves with only average profit. No, it’s not average profit, and not superprofit, but maximum profit, which is almost reckoned with almost nothing, and is the basis of Western capitalism. And the need to maximize profits pushes him to various risky steps.

      The systematic robbery of colonies and other backward countries, the transformation of independent countries into dependent ones, the organization of wars, instability and hostility, at the first sign of difficulties, will again turn out to be uncontested for these tycoons. Capitalism does not know how to live otherwise than pursuing to maximize the benefits, and therefore the attempts to gain world economic domination continue, and anyone who threatens it will be under attack ... "
      But as soon as Russia rose from its knees again, once again, as a phoenix bird (regularly in its history) flared up again with development activities, the USA, Britain and, in general, the collective Western world instantly dropped their arrogant masks. Using the dirtiest methods - they showed the true face.
      1. Undecim 6 February 2020 11: 05 New
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        Did you see the Soviet press?
        And they saw the Soviet press, and the history of the CPSU, and the diamat with istmatism, and scientific communism, everyone saw. And Stalin's speech at the XIX Congress of the CPSU on October 14, 1952, too.
        Therefore, you don’t need to drag an owl to the globe, because Stalin’s speech, by definition, could not contain such a stupid redrawing of history as Samsonov does. Stalin reveals to deputies the essence of the world bourgeoisie and its policy, and does not engage in historical fakemetry.
        1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 11: 49 New
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          Quote: Undecim
          Stalin reveals to deputies the essence of the world bourgeoisie and its policy, and does not engage in historical fakemetry.

          Well, I’m saying that the Soviet press didn’t deal with “fake”, because for its image in the West it was much more important than the internal effect. Lies did not require justification, and the truth could only be blamed. Soviet man was much more politicized than the layman in the West and perceived the burnt Vietnamese children as his own.





          So much for istmath and scientific communism. Watch and do not forget!
          1. Vasily Ponomarev 6 February 2020 12: 05 New
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            https://antisovetsky.livejournal.com/83477.html
            1. pmkemcity 6 February 2020 13: 06 New
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              Quote: Vasily Ponomarev
              https://antisovetsky.livejournal.com/83477.html

              From there:
              All cases are taken from only one book on the "recollections" of one person, even whose participation in those hostilities is doubtful.
              And now, even if you collect the entire SA from those who survived, they get tired of laundering, because there are few documentary facts, you can drive any rubbish in tons. And sign photos as you like. And the dead cannot even stand up for themselves on the Internet, it’s very convenient to kick them.
              Next - Friends, read books more, so that I’ll kill everyone ... ki like the one who posted this crap could not fool you.
              And further
              Alexey Kulikov

              April 14, 2019 at 06:42:44 UTC Collapse
              После слов "сержант скинул шинель" читать перестал. author, где ты видел, чтобы в шинели на боевую задачу ходили? Ты попробуй по горам в шинели полазить, потом пиши. Фейкомет. Итересно, сколько бабла тебе за этот кал заслали?
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              feliksdze

              April 14, 2019 10:51:08 UTC
              The author voluptuously namanyachil ..... Especially successful were the memories of the tank with the rags of the intestines on the tracks and the sergeant-hero and inspirer of the general wear and tear of the village !!!
              Itself, apparently, also passed all the hot spots? Give personal memories of blood-grenades in the ass .....
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              feliksdze

              April 14, 2019 10:55:52 UTC
              What is the calculation? Like "himself like that"? So NOT SUCH!
          2. Undecim 6 February 2020 12: 56 New
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            You, in my opinion, hear and see only yourself. What are you trying to prove to me in your aplomb? What delirium Samsonova caused by the burning of Vietnamese children?
            Or the fact that in order to achieve an "internal effect" in propaganda, one can also use such a primitive transition?
    2. Octopus 6 February 2020 11: 36 New
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      Quote: Undecim
      Lying for propaganda purposes has always been considered the lot of "imperial acrobats of rotary machines."

      )))
      Of course not. But they worked more solidly, I must say.
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2020 07: 27 New
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      I can not agree
  • Operator 6 February 2020 10: 37 New
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    One can argue about why the WWII was unleashed - the British, Germans and Japanese also had their own reasons to stimulate its beginning.

    Но имеется исторический факт - США преодолели десятилетний экономический кризис отнюдь не благодаря политике Рузвельта (состоящей из мелочевых мероприятий типа общественных работ для безработных и постройки одной гидроэлектростанции), а за счет наращивания налогов и государственных расходов на вооружение с 1939 года.

    So WWII literally pulled the US economy out of stagnation. America's global dominance over other countries with a ruined economy following the war is more a bonus than a plan.
    1. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 10: 58 New
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      If a gentleman says “A”, this means that he intends to give a speech for about 15 minutes. Anglo-Saxons always play in the long, short-term plans - just the visible part of the iceberg. And “pleasant bonuses” are the results of this long-term policy. This is not an accident, but a planned pattern.
      Everyone remembers how smuggled jewelry was laundered in the movie Diamond Hand? Oh, I found a treasure! (bonus in your opinion).
      1. Operator 6 February 2020 13: 24 New
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        The article is devoted to the unleashing of WWII - as we all know, Britain and France were in the forefront in this process, who, starting in 1934, turned a blind eye to all violations of the Versailles Peace Treaty by Germany, and in 1936 fed Austria Austria, in 1938 - the Czech Republic and in 1939 - Poland ("Strange War").

        The United States began to militarize its economy (out of stagnation) only in 1940.
        1. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 13: 34 New
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          You yourself write that in 1940 the United States had already begun to overcome the crisis, that is, planning, organizational and preparatory measures in order to "promote" their war economy they had a little earlier. Given that the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve worked hand in hand, it is strange to look for the lack of logical connections and try not to notice the beneficiaries. Anglo-Saxons in their role do all the dirty work with their own hands, but the United States is in the position when it is customary to say that the apple does not fall far from the apple tree. This is especially noticeable in the fact of summing up WWII and continued.
          1. Operator 6 February 2020 13: 37 New
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            And WWII began a year earlier, i.e. not the USA was its initiator.
            1. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 14: 02 New
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              Quote: Operator
              And WWII started a year earlier

              That is, historically and almost simultaneously. What a coincidence. And all by accident. One thing I know for sure - Rafik is a poor Neinoouat.
              You know, in the Criminal Code there is such an article as 205.6. Failure to report a crime, and so all US actions are in that direction. They knew. Seen it. They did nothing to prevent and prepared in advance to profit for themselves. My purely civil verdict - indirect guilt is proven. Whether they were the customer of what Hitler did was a different question, but judging by their subsequent reaction, they took on the task of not completing Nazism — namely, the fight against communism. The killers are over - grab the gun yourself.
              1. Octopus 6 February 2020 14: 35 New
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                Quote: g1washntwn
                Failure to report a crime, and so all US actions are in that direction

                What does "not reported" mean? League of Nations in the know, I assure you. They even threw someone out in the cold on this case. But not Germany, Germany came out in the 33rd, before any crime.

                And the bright cause of Communism was destroyed, if we take the Americans, Nixon and Reagan. Not very close to WWII, actually. Under Roosevelt, Soviet power spread from the Oder to Korea, and as a result of the race, from Denmark to Hong Kong.
                1. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 14: 45 New
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                  McCarthyism is already a terry degree of communism for the internal consumer. Immediately after 1917, this ideology was of little interest to Americans, since they did not see a direct threat to themselves and even tried to instill something in themselves. But roughly speaking, "standing on a skater" is anyway participating in an organized gang, without options a youngster or you just stand by and poke seeds in your pocket while the other cashiers take out.
                  1. Octopus 6 February 2020 14: 54 New
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                    McCarthyism has nothing to do with Nixon and Reagan; McCarthy was in power under Eisenhower. He was right, of course, but could not keep the situation under control; he switched from purging the civil service to a witch hunt. If he had transplanted the entire Roosevelt State Department onto an electric chair, he would have deserved a golden equestrian monument.
                    1. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 14: 57 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      McCarthy .... He was, of course, right

                      Is communism right? Well, you can’t be so frankly open, dear opponent! laughing
                      1. Octopus 6 February 2020 15: 05 New
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                        Quote: g1washntwn
                        is communism evil? Well, you can’t get so frankly open

                        What does it mean to "get on"? Should I hide it, should I?
                      2. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 15: 14 New
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                        Sometimes frankness is taken for stupidity. Be careful. But for being honest with you from me. + So with an open visor ... a rarity on the Internet.
              2. g1washntwn 6 February 2020 14: 50 New
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                McCarthyism is already a terry degree the fight against communism and for the domestic consumer. Immediately after 1917, this ideology was of little interest to Americans, since they did not see a direct threat to themselves and even tried to instill something in themselves. But roughly speaking, "standing on a skater" is anyway participating in an organized gang, without options a youngster or you just stand by and poke seeds in your pocket while the other cashiers take out.
  • Kostadinov 6 February 2020 11: 20 New
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    It is impossible to remove the main blame for the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century from German imperialism.
    He beat the most powerful imperialist state in a military relationship and naturally strove for world domination. Only after World War II did American imperialism take its place.
  • Old26 6 February 2020 13: 36 New
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    Quote: Vladivostok1969
    At the same time, America traded not only with the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition

    Well, we, Sergei, also traded with Nazi Germany? Based on this, can we also be ranked among those who unleashed the Second World War ??
    1. Alexey RA 6 February 2020 14: 31 New
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      Quote: Old26
      Based on this, can we also be ranked among those who unleashed the Second World War ??

      So already ... they ranked them. Ask the same Poles.
      1. Octopus 6 February 2020 14: 47 New
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        Quote: Alexey RA
        So already ... they ranked them. Ask the same Poles

        You see, this is not a completely similar case. By analogy with the Poles, Iceland can bring claims to the States.

        But does not show, for some reason. How so?
  • g1washntwn 6 February 2020 15: 04 New
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    The theory that Hitler is just an instrument of struggle with the communist USSR, and the beneficiaries are completely different, has the right to life. I already wrote that Einstein’s theory has not been proved, but do we sharpen all fundamental science under it? Well, there you go! I’m all about the same: Nazism 1939 is a coronavirus dispersed in Europe, and the speed of light is not constant. Prove the opposite. He took the popcorn.
  • Operator 6 February 2020 15: 52 New
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    Quote: g1washntwn
    simultaneously

    In the prewar period, time is compressed repeatedly.
  • BAI
    BAI 6 February 2020 18: 49 New
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    The Soviet empire rose

    The author stupidly or consciously continues to pour mud on the USSR. Empire is a class state, one of the goals of which is the enslavement of other states and existence at their expense. The USSR has never been an empire. Putting it on the same level with empires, the author equalizes imperialism in general, and fascism in particular (as one of the manifestations of imperialism), with socialism of the USSR. And the equalization of the USSR and fascist Germany is a criminal offense. Who and when will take away the author in his hopeless stupidity?
  • 1970mk 6 February 2020 22: 55 New
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    Samsonov's time to FORBID - Nonsense just Scale .... schizophrenia clearly ...
    1. NordUral 7 February 2020 19: 15 New
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      Where are you broadcasting from, 1970mk? The author put everything on the shelves, as it was.
  • Doctor Evil 7 February 2020 09: 32 New
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    For some reason, I remember the universal Polykhaev stamp from Golden Calf. In response to the vile machinations of the Masters of the West, stretching out their lascivious tentacles towards the Russian superethnos, we, the Herculesites, as one person will answer: ... as well as to all that is needed in the future.
  • NordUral 7 February 2020 19: 07 New
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    That was Roosevelt's New Deal. However, not everything is glued. There is no decisive change. It was possible to get out of the pit, but it was not possible to rush forward. It is impossible to combine capitalism and the elements of socialism. Throughout the 30s, the US economy has stagnated. In 1937, a new wave of crisis erupted. Analysts predict a new wave of great depression and economic collapse in 1940.

    But socialism with the elements of capitalism can and should be built.
    The planned economy of group “A” and the market economy in group “B”. also in agriculture. The basis is state ownership, no oligarchs, only entrepreneurs who succeed head and hands.
  • sanya 8 February 2020 18: 08 New
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    The author contradicts himself
    On the one hand, the USA is nurturing new centers of power, and on the other hand, the goal of the war is to defeat those whom they have nurtured ...
    The war was fought between the United States and the British Empire only in the wrong hands
    For these purposes, the United States carried out the so-called industrialization in the USSR, while completely lending this project for American money
    Then they helped Germany
    And by 1941, the issue with the British had already been resolved ... Then it remained only to end the war. For starters, they collided the USSR and Germany and helped the weakest side, and then solved the issue with Japan.
    That's it, the game has been played.
    1. EvilLion 10 February 2020 08: 39 New
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      Great Britain in the same way sold the USSR almost everything that was then sold for money. Because the Great Depression is not only in the USA. In the early 30s, the USSR was not considered a threat. Strange, but not very powerful country. True, in June 1941, the USSR was once again under sanctions. And the alignment of forces was unclear. The Yankees were going to sign up for a victim of aggression, well, there already earn some money. In this regard, any nonsense about the Soviet attack on Germany is simply nonsense. The Kremlin understood that it was necessary to secure a maximum of allies. But the readiness of the Americans to support the one who will be attacked does not mean that they started a war. The war in Europe could go in many different ways, none of which the Americans controlled. Theoretically, the Germans could miserably lose in the 1940th in France, and that would be the end of it. Even overt pressure on the Japanese and sanctions blocking the supply of oil to the Japanese in the face of the defeat of Germany could cancel the Japanese plans for the invasion of South Asia, where they would have been waiting for all the colonial powers that had been robbed of Hitler in real history.

      There is a difference between control and plans for a particular outcome.
  • EvilLion 10 February 2020 08: 27 New
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    Where are the psychiatrists? The author of the United States is confused with Poland and Germany.
  • andrew42 10 February 2020 11: 39 New
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    It's time to stop calling the USA / USA the term "state." This is “Khazar Kaganate 2.0” in all its glory, obvious after the Yankees defeated the Confederates in the Civil War. Appeals to the United States as a state, to state leaders of the United States - they are meaningless and stupid. These figures do exactly that, and just as much as indicated by the "unknown fathers" of America. The real management structure is based on Freemasonry as half-blind management managers. There is no need to speak about the president, the Senate and the supreme court; this has long been a clean props for the "good Samaritans."
  • Whalebone 10 February 2020 15: 56 New
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    It is stronger than Faust Goethe. I look forward to continuing.
  • kig
    kig 12 February 2020 08: 00 New
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    Some of us, contrary to the instructions of the President on the inadmissibility of falsification and attempts to revise the history of World War II, are trying to revise this history. Basically, Poland is appointed the instigator, and now the turn has reached the stronghold of world democracy.