Why the USA started a world war

American battleship North Carolina during sea trials. May 1941

"Crusade" of the West against Russia. Who fought against whom in World War II? The official anti-Hitler coalition against Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and militaristic Japan. In reality, the United States unleashed this war against the whole world in order to achieve world domination.

The USA fought a war according to a strategy of indirect actions: “divide and conquer”. Washington “nurtured” the hotbeds of war in Japan (the Asia-Pacific region), Italy and Germany (the Euro-African theater), pitted and pushed its rivals and enemies with each other, and provoked them to take advantageous steps. As a result of World War II, the United States achieved much: they destroyed and subjugated Western Europe, destroyed the German and Japanese empires, the American partner, the British Empire, was bled out, moving to the position of “junior” in the Washington – London tandem. The dollar dared all its competitors on a significant part of the planet, became a world currency, the United States received a financial instrument of world domination. Russia suffered terrible losses, it took off to the stars, and then, under Khrushchev, it was stopped.

The causes of the war

The fundamental cause of all world wars is the pursuit of world domination, the concentration of world resources and globalization. "King of the Hill" should be alone. There is a kind of competition of world projects, civilizations. By the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the western project in the form of capitalism dominated in most of the planet. Its essence is constant expansion, parasitism, exhaustion of other people's resources and energy.

The First World War was unleashed by “Western democracies” - the masters of Paris, London and Washington (Why did the masters of the West unleashed the First World War) to crush the competitors within the Western project - the German world, to destroy Russian civilization (the main prize) and the Ottoman Empire in order to further enslave the Islamic world. To establish the complete dominance of financial capital on the planet. However, the goals of this world war were not fully realized.

The German world, the aristocratic monarchies - the German and Austro-Hungarian empires, were destroyed. The Roman world - France and Italy, is bloodless, weakened and subject to the Anglo-Saxons. The Ottoman Empire was destroyed, dismembered and plundered, its possessions became the sphere of influence of the great Western powers. The Russian empire was killed, dismembered, subjected to total robbery, unleashed a terrible fratricidal Civil War, the intervention began capturing strategic points and cities. It seemed that the “Russian question” had been resolved. Russian civilization, a millennium opposed to the West, has fallen forever. However, the Russian Bolshevik Communists raised the red banner of social justice, won and were able to revive Russian (Soviet) statehood in a new way. Moreover, under Stalin, a Russian (Soviet) global project was born in Russia. Russia was reborn like a phoenix, and the West sensed a threat to its dominance.

In addition, the US victory in World War I was incomplete. Project of Woodrow Wilson, Colonel House (What is a "House Plan") about the American “new world order” was not fully implemented. Yes, America has become a world creditor from a world debtor, has entangled England and France with billions of debts. But the United States did not become a "global gendarme." The Soviet empire rose, in the Pacific, Japan showed its ambitions. Europe failed to completely subjugate the American will. That is, the First World War was incomplete, a “continuation war" was necessary.

The crisis of capitalism

The causes of the world war also lie in the crisis of capitalism. This system is designed for the constant expansion, absorption and development of ever new resources, energy and territories, enslavement of ever new peoples and countries. And there were no more. The whole planet has been mastered. It remains only to capture the spheres of influence within the capitalist world itself. In particular, the United States needed the colonies and markets of the British Empire.

The Great Depression was an unprecedented economic crisis that hit the United States in 1929. A strong crisis swept Western Europe, becoming the basis for the strengthening of fascist, dictatorial and authoritarian regimes, the victory of the Nazis in Germany. There are 15 million unemployed in the United States. The American "famine": some were dying of hunger, while others were starving. Crowds of workers, small employees, teachers and farmers who demand "to do as the Russians do" - there was no crisis in the USSR, on the contrary, there was a rapid rise. When the crisis struck, it became clear that in the States there is practically no social legislation, pensions and unemployment benefits, people are completely defenseless.

Roosevelt's predecessors tried to deal with the crisis with old methods. They balanced the budget, “optimized” it, cut costs, did not want to spend money on long-term programs for the development of agriculture and industry. They tried by all means to ensure low inflation and dollar stability. In fact, Russian liberals from the 90s to the present day are doing the same. As a result, the masses went bankrupt, became poorer, and the rich grew capital. It is not surprising that in the 1930s, millions of demonstrations took place in the United States under socialist slogans. The police had to use machine guns against the protesters, the government threw troops to disperse protests. In some states, camps were built for the homeless and the unemployed. A war was brewing between the countryside and the city, as it was in Russia. The ghost of a second civilian rose over the States.

The owners of the United States had no choice: either a big war again, or the development of a crisis that could lead to the collapse of the socio-economic American system, a new civil war, and the collapse of the States. It is clear that the owners of America were not going to follow the paths of social justice, peace and good. These are predators, social parasites. Therefore, it was decided once again to “reload the matrix”, to break and remake the entire world system. The great war gave America a great chance for world domination. Fortunately, the United States had a great starting position.

Thus, the question was straightforward: either the outbreak of a new world war with the goal of a radical reorganization of the entire world order in the interests of America, or the continuation of the terrible crisis threatening a civil war, the collapse of the country and millions of victims. Washington has chosen war.

Preparing for war

The United States from the beginning of the 1930s began to prepare for a new world war, when the Germans did not even think about it. In 1932, Franklin Roosevelt came to power. His policy was called the New Deal. Temporarily put a limit to financial parasites - banks. A single Reconstruction Finance Corporation is opening. An extraordinary law is being passed, which introduces state guarantee of private deposits in surviving banks, but threatens all people who keep money at home in a “mattress” with a prison term. Such is the financial discipline. People are again forced to put their savings and gold in banks. A powerful public sector is being created. Production planning, state control over prices and public works are introduced. The state uses a printing press to finance industrial projects. Serious assistance is being provided to the agricultural sector. Huge finances go to military projects, construction fleet for the conquest of world domination. In fact, Roosevelt largely repeated the Soviet experience.

The authorities dictate the minimum wage to entrepreneurs, protect the working class. Introduced powerful mechanisms of social protection of Americans. From this time begins the "golden age" of the working, middle-class USA. The Civil Engineering Corps has been created (remember the labor armies of Soviet Russia) to overcome unemployment. Hundreds of thousands of people literally over food work at "construction sites of capitalism" at an accelerated pace. Dams, highways, bridges, new industrial enterprises, etc. are being built. At the same time, Roosevelt strengthens the presidential and central authority. State rights are being cut. Expand special services and their rights. There is a "war of the elites." Part of the American elite considers Roosevelt to be a “communist", a dictator, trying to get him down. Roosevelt himself criticizes the "oligarchs" and "new feudal lords."

That was Roosevelt's New Deal. However, not everything is glued. There is no decisive change. It was possible to get out of the pit, but it was not possible to rush forward. It is impossible to combine capitalism and the elements of socialism. Throughout the 30s, the US economy has stagnated. In 1937, a new wave of crisis erupted. Analysts predict a new wave of great depression and economic collapse in 1940.

And the United States begins preparations for a new world massacre. Earlier then others! The new global war is the last chance for the United States to preserve itself and spread American order throughout the world. Transfer the crisis from the core of the capitalist system to the rest of the world. Throughout the second half of the 30s, Washington is doing everything to destroy any attempts to create a collective security system in Europe, punish aggressors, stop Mussolini and Hitler. Roosevelt supports Chamberlain's "appeasement" policy. London and Washington are pushing Hitler to the East. Financial capital supports the militarization of the Reich (On the preparation of the American capital of World War II; Who brought Hitler to power).

The States themselves are intensely preparing for war. From 1934 to 1938 US military budget doubles. Washington needs a complete victory. Destroyed Europe at its feet, which can be easily enslaved by financial and economic methods. Crushed Germany, Japan and the USSR. Washington needs to weaken the British Empire, to become an "older brother." War is the only salvation from the crisis of capitalism. It will revitalize the economy, allow you to stick to the destroyed, ruined countries. Deflate the wealth of Europe, Asia and plunder the main prize - Russia.

US President Roosevelt shows on the map the Pacific theater of operations. 1942

Comments

[Vasily Ponomarev]

so they rewrite history, do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same thing, conspirators

[Amateur]

do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same, conspiratorial

What, Mr. Samsonov has already become president of the Russian Federation to compare him with the presidents of Poland and Ukraine?

[bandabas]

This is a personal problem of Mr. Samsonov. Only in this article did he forget to mention that gold from US citizens was forcibly exchanged for the benefit of the state in 1933. And then, the price of gold increased by 1,5. In 1936, when the US population was stripped of everything that is possible.

[Shurik70]

By the way.
It just became known that due to the collapse of the economy from the coronavirus, China halves the duties on goods from the United States.
And I won’t be surprised when the US pharmaceutical companies suddenly announced that they had found a cure for it. This will be just before the real threat of a large-scale epidemic comes for the United States.

[Blackmokona]

China agreed to reduce duties with the US before the outbreak

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Vasily Ponomarev

so they rewrite history, do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same thing, conspirators

The article is clear, precise, although not without inaccuracies.
What do you disagree with specifically? Without hay and vomit.

[bessmertniy]

And the secret was never that the United States from the beginning of the last century was eager for world domination. They did not have time to redistribute the colonies, but financially, through their green dollar, were able to subjugate even the former colonialists.

[gridasov]

Moreover, the Americans skillfully invest a lot of money without upsetting the balance within the country and bypassing the impoverishment of the people. The mechanism is logically simple. In Russia, the armed forces are being invested from the budget and this always has an effect on people's lives.

[Essex62]

Investing in war is not worth the Freemasons. The cut, colored paper does not have gold support and the printing press can be turned on as hell does. The balance inside the platform of the printing press, and not the country of SCA, is not possible to upset
. Having imposed its candy wrappers on the whole World, this evil is superstable and has an unlimited resource to support this stability.
The article has a lot of repetitions, but in fact everything is. True

[Arlen]

Quote: bessmertniy

And the secret never was that the United States from the beginning of the last century was eager for world domination.

And yet they seized upon the role of world gendarme. Thanks to their role as world gendarme, in the 21st century the world has come to the brink of new world challenges and disasters. It seemed that after two world wars that claimed tens of millions of human lives, there should no longer be anything like it. But the United States is doing everything in its power to support conflicts around the world, strain the global environment, and violate all international standards. And what will happen next is not known to anyone.

[Lister]

Quote: Arlen

And yet they seized upon the role of world gendarme

In the 19th century, the Russian Empire was also called the "world gendarme" for participating in the suppression of the national uprisings of 1848. The role of the "world gendarme" ended badly for Russia, with the Crimean War. Maybe this is waiting for them?

[nickname7]

The role of the "world gendarme" ended badly for Russia, the Crimean War

The elite of Russia relaxed, wallowed in luxury and decayed, this is the reason for its defeat, and the elite in Kapmir constantly conflicts and maintains their shape. They are very strong.

[NEXUS]

Quote: bessmertniy

And the secret never was that the United States from the beginning of the last century was eager for world domination.

Yes, it’s not the United States, but the fact that this war is of our civilizations and the Anglo-Saxons. And so far we are shamelessly losing this war, since all Slavic states are either under the Anglo-Saxons or weak and weak, which cannot be said about the alliance of the Anglo-Saxons. Add to this the corporate world war and the picture is obtained in oil.
If you look closely at the wars of the last 100 years, you will see that the Anglo-Saxons very purposefully destroy historical facts, with their own or the wrong hands. In addition, they try to rewrite history as a whole. So the United States is only part of the Anglo-Saxon world and I think not the most important.

[Engineer]

Article - a set of eye-catching clichés and delusions of the "Dulles plan" level
The situation in the United States was complex and diverse. The isolationists had a strong position.
In general, the main geopolitical goal of the states of the 30s and early 40s was the dismantling of the British Empire. So all the pathos of Samsonov goes into the air

[zenion]

It is a pity that you did not read Mark Twain's books. Especially those volumes where his political articles are for newspapers. He named the United Lynching States before the twentieth century. From its very conception, the United States has lived in wars, just as a bandit cannot stop robbing.

[Baloo]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Quote: Vasily Ponomarev

so they rewrite history, do not bark at others if you yourself are doing the same thing, conspirators

The article is clear, precise, although not without inaccuracies.
What do you disagree with specifically? Without hay and vomit.

US Sympathizers: Bernard Baruch and Woodrow Wilson pioneered the creation of the Federal Reserve in 2013. The same baruch met with him shortly before Kennedy's assassination, there is an archive photo from this meeting. Reason for the visit: Kennedy tried to restrict the rights of the FRS, which was the reason for his removal by a specially trained, not very smart, mentally labile without a "king in his head" "specialist" who was immediately eliminated by another "specialist". Witnesses who claimed that there were several shots and not from the side of the book warehouse, somehow by themselves very quickly died or disappeared. So you don't like Soviet history textbooks and the author's article?
How do you like that: Hitler kept his personal savings in the bank of Bush Jr.'s grandfather? Trotsky, with the support of Wall Street's financial tycoons, made his way to Russia through England when the failure of the Provisional Government became clear. Sverdlov's brother opened a bank in the United States in 1916. , which was covered with a copper basin after the death of Sverlov, but about Sverdlov's safe, opened in 1937. about the attempted coup by Trotsky in 1927 (the main driving force is a person of Jewish nationality) is well known. So it is not the United States, striving for hegemony in our time in 90 countries, staged coups after the Second World War, but "activists"? I'm not that naive.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The article is clear, precise, although not without inaccuracies.
What do you disagree with specifically? Without hay and vomit.

Only the facts of the author’s untruth:

Author: it was decided once again to “reload the matrix”, to break and remake the entire world system. Great war gave America a great chance for world domination

And here is how the United States "prepared" for war in reality:

These are defense costs: as you can see, nothing special, practically, BEFORE 1941, NO.

By the beginning of World War II, the United States, in fact, did not have an army and navy, as well as military industry, and the size of the US army was less the strength of the Portuguese army!

But only after defeat France July 3, 1940 Roosevelt approved Arms Program for 1940-1941.

And then, of course, away we go ....

Author:it was decided once again “reload the matrix”, break and remake the entire world system

By whom decided when decided that decided: DOCUMENTS -On the table !!

Otherwise, fairy tales and I to compose I can....

[iouris]

Quote: Olgovich

These are defense costs: as you can see, nothing special, practically, BEFORE 1941, NO.

Right. But F.D. On the eve of the war, Roosevelt, in advance and at the expense of the US state budget (!!!), carried out a grandiose infrastructure economic project (it was not for nothing that the all-powerful FBI head Hoover suspected him of communism) - he created an "industrial cluster" that ensured a huge increase in military production.
Before WWI, the United States owed Europe a lot of money. After WWI, Europe owed the United States a lot of money. Gold and "brains" flowed to the USA. The same thing happened after WWII. Even doctrinal obstacles (the Monroe doctrine) could not prevent entry into WWI and WWII.
The same scheme works now. And what prevents?
All are part of this empire.

[Blackmokona]

The United States at the end of the 19th century became the first economy in the world, and had this very heavy-duty industrial cluster.

[iouris]

Quote: BlackMokona

The United States in the late 19th century became the first economy in the world.

It depends on what "had". At the end of the 19th century. The United States entered a systemic overproduction crisis that threatened the very existence of the United States. That is why the ruling circles of the United States decided to go with their goods to the Eastern Hemisphere. They were especially attracted by China, where super-empires dominated. And what happened to them soon? They drowned. All. Austro-Hungarian Empire, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire. By the way, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was very advanced in terms of technology, the Russian fed Europe with grain, oil and oil, Israel and the main sources of oil are located on the territory of the Ottoman Empire. Who became the only superpower?

[Blackmokona]

The crisis of overproduction was already after the WWII, before that no similar problems were observed. Also, if he wanted to capture the mountains of the colonies, then the United States could not fit in with Britain. On the contrary, it was necessary to attack her after the end of the WWII and capture all the colonies of France and Britain. After which the United States would occupy a third of the globe and dominate the destroyed Europe. Which, of course, in no case could be restored, but only kept in a trade blockade and starved

[gsev]

Quote: Olgovich

and the size of the US army was less than the size of the Portuguese army!

This comment, unlike the article, quite accurately showed the state of affairs before the Japanese attack on the United States. One of the important reasons for the sudden Japanese attack on the United States was the opinion of the Japanese military that the United States has a very small army, and if the war starts, they will not be able to deploy it into a large large army, they will not be able to prepare US generals to manage large military formations, they will not be able to during 1-2 years to train military pilots. The construction of roads, dams in the United States to get out of the depression with only a stretch can be attributed to the preparation of the war ..

[iouris]

This is a well-known story. Every cultured person must know this. Continuous wars among "barbarians" are the way the United States exists as a world empire. Back in the 1960s, Soviet cartoons depicted the US Army as a fire brigade in reverse. Verses about "warmongers" are also known.

[nickname7]

that's how they rewrite history

Rewriting is when they invent or hide facts. The facts in the article are not fictional.

[Do not care]

Interestingly, I alone feel sick of what I read?
This is how much you need to not respect site visitors in order to write such nonsense.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Do not care

Interestingly, I alone feel sick of what I read?

Rinse out your mouth.

[Pessimist22]

The article forgot to mention reptilians, that they want war.

[Santa Fe]

Criticism Must Be Constructive

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Santa Fe

Criticism Must Be Constructive

Look what you wanted, the construct is not adequate. Just a stream of consciousness.

[My doctor]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Look what you wanted, the construct is not adequate. Just a stream of consciousness.

Quote: iouris

To criticize constructively, you have to read too much.

I am ashamed to admit, but you are right. One must love reading very much to overpower the article. I could not.

[iouris]

To criticize constructively, you have to read too much.

[Sadam]

I also thought I already read this 30 years ago from textbooks at school)))

[Boris55]

Quote: Sadam

I also thought I already read this 30 years ago from textbooks at school)))

Well, and how, did they write the truth in the textbooks of that time or not?

[Sergey Olegovich]

Quote: Sadam

I also thought I already read this 30 years ago from textbooks at school)))

Quote: Sadam

I also thought I already read this 30 years ago from textbooks at school)))

This was not in those textbooks 30 years ago.

[Octopus]

Quote: Do not care

how much you should not respect site visitors in order to write such nonsense.

You are wrong to offend Comrade Samsonov. He has been grazing here with his science fiction for ten years now. Well, who, but he knows well who reads it.

Although, of course, if everyone has long been accustomed to its altistory of the USSR, its transition to a foreign country makes a heavy impression. Along with the usual conspiratorialism (the United States is perceived by analogy with the USSR as a single author, while their actions are given strictly selectively, in particular, Soviet industrialization is not mentioned in any case), the author very often issues absolutely enchanting statements. There is no power to disassemble them.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Do not care

Interestingly, I alone feel sick of what I read?
This is how much you need to not respect site visitors in order to write such nonsense.

No, over there Vaska Paramonova was also sick, the ruin lackeys.

[Engineer]

Look at it the other way. While Samsonov writes in the opinions section, in the historical division of forces he only has enough for a civil war. If you stop writing here, then with a new force will begin the opupey of the millennia-old Slavic-Aryan Reich in the historical. There the degree of inadequacy is an order of magnitude greater. So the current situation is the lesser of two evils.

[AK1972]

Even if we assume that Samsonov writes the absolute truth, he is still sick of his opuses. On this subject, he has already uploaded dozens of articles of the same content to the site, slightly changing words in places. Authorship is recognized by the first two sentences. So this time I stopped reading the heading and the first paragraph, because I know the further contents. However, Samsonov's articles regularly gain a record number of comments. I already suggested not to comment on the same type of article by this author (group of authors), but I couldn’t resist it myself.

[Mathafaka]

America of the 30s did not want any war, it was a society of isolationists, they did not need any war, much less in Europe.
Roosevelt went out of his way to help the Soviet Union at 41.
And now he is accused of starting World War 2.
Class.

[Vladivostok1969]

At the same time, America traded not only with the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition

During the Nuremberg Trials, the former President of the Imperial Bank, Hjalmar Schacht, said in an interview with an American lawyer: “If you want to indict industrialists who helped rearm Germany, you must indict yourself. You will be required to indict the Americans. The Opel automobile plant, for example, did not produce anything other than military products. Owned this factory, your General Motors. Almost until the end of the war, with special permission to trade with Germany, Italy, Japan, the American telecommunications company ITT conducted its business. Ford did not stop production in France after the German occupation by the Germans, while German Goering, who headed the Reichswerk German Goering industrial concern, personally provided special protection for Ford's activities in Europe. What can I say, even if the Coca-Cola company, far from military affairs, has launched production of the Fanta drink in Germany!

The Standard Oil war did not prevent the conclusion through a British intermediary of a contract with the German chemical concern I.G. Farbenidustri for the production of aviation gasoline in Germany. During the Second World War, not a single Standard Oil tanker was sunk by German submarines.

[Avior]

these are fictions from the book Trade with the Enemy that you quoted.
There are no confirmations or links to Documents, and a simple check shows that it is full of ordinary fabrications.
There was no long-known Standard Oil company at the beginning of the war, it broke up during the First World War, there were more than a dozen companies with different names with the combination of Standard Oil, but the Germans drowned their tankers in the same way as others, including if they sailed under neutral flags.
This list has long been known.
Next, I bring a part of my last year’s post on this topic.
The story of supposedly unsinkable tankers is discussed throughout the Internet many times.
For starters, the famous Standard Oil company was disbanded even before the First World War by a court decision and could not supply oil to the Germans by definition. In its place, a whole bunch of small companies formed - 38, to be exact, some of which had the phrase "Standard Oil" in their name.
The author of this "documentary" book did not even know about it, it seems.
Rockefeller himself, by the way, died in 1937.
As for the unsinked tankers, in fact, dozens of tankers from the number of companies that were originally part of Standard Oil were sunk by the Germans, including those registered in Mexico for the Panama Transport Co company - the Germans did not really respect such subtleties.
Moreover, the very first tanker sunk by the Germans in 1942, immediately after the US entered the war, was just the tanker of the Standard Oil company. Here, for example, is the statistics of tanker losses of the same "Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York", which is pushed about in the article, and the Panama branch of "Panama Transport Co" only for the first six months of 1942 after the US entered the war plus 2, sunk even before the official start of the war, the lists of sunken ships have long been no secret.



1. "Charles Pratt" (8,982 brt) October 20, 1939
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: Aruba (5 Dec) - Freetown
load: 96.069 barrels of fuel oil
Sunk U65 21.12.40/2/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

2. "IC White" (7,052 brt) 1940
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: Curaçao - Capetown
load: 62.390 barrels of crude oil
Sunk U66 27.09.41/3/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

3. "Allan Jackson" (6,635 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Cartagena, Colombia - New York
Cargo: 72.870 barrels of crude oil
Sunk U66 18.01.42/22/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

4. "WL Steed" (6,182 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Cartagena, Columbia (23 Jan) - Key West, Florida - New York
Cargo: 65.936 barrels of crude oil
Sunk U103 02.02.42/34/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

5. "RP Resor" (7,451 Brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Baytown, Texas - Fall River, Massachusetts
Cargo: 105,025 barrels of Bunker C fuel oil
Sunk U578 27.02.42/47/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

6. "Hanseat" (8,241 brt) 1935
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: New York - Caripito, Venezuela
Cargo: Ballast
Sunk U126 09.03.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

7. "Penelope" (8,436 brt) 1935
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: Caripito - Halifax
Cargo: Crude oil
Sunk U67 14.03.42/2/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

8. "EM Clark" (9,647 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Baton Rouge, Louisiana - New York
Cargo: 118.725 barrels of heating oil
Sunk U124 18.03.42/1/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

9. "Esso Boston" (7,699 Brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Güiria, Venezuela - Halifax
Cargo: 105.400 barrels of crude oil
Sunk U130 12.04.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

10. "Heinrich von Riedemann" (11,020 grt)
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: La Guira, Venezuela (14 Apr) - Port of Spain (16 Apr) - Aruba
Cargo: 127.041 barrels of crude oil
Sunk U66 17.04.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

11. "Harry G. Seidel" (10,354 brt) 1935
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: Aruba (27 Apr) - Caripito, Venezuela
Cargo: Ballast
Sunk U66 29.04.42/2/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

12. "Esso Houston" (7,699 Brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Aruba (9 May) - Montevideo, Uruguay
Cargo: 81.701 barrels of fuel oil
Sunk U162 13.05.42/1/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

13. "MF Elliott" (6,940 grt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Newport News (19 May) - Trinidad - Caripito, Venezuela
Cargo: Ballast
Sunk U502 03.06.42/13/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

14. "LJ Drake" (6,693 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Aruba (4 Jun) - San Juan, Puerto Rico
Cargo: 72,961 barrels of gasoline
Sunk U68 05.06.42/41/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

15. "COStillman" (13,006 brt)
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: Aruba - New York
Cargo: 125.812 barrels fuel oil and 39 tons dry cargo
Sunk U68 06.06.42/3/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

16. "Franklin K. Lane" (6,589 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Caripito, Venezuela - Trinidad (7 Jun) - Aruba
Cargo: 73,000 barrels of crude oil
Sunk U502 09.06.42/4/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

17. "EJ Sadler" (9,639 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: San Nicolas, Aruba (21 Jun) - New York
Cargo: 149.003 barrels of kerosene
Sunk U159 22.06.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

18. "William Rockefeller" (14,054 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Aruba (19 Jun) - New York
Cargo: 135.000 barrels of fuel oil
Sunk U701 28.06.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - no dead

19. "Benjamin Brewster" (5,950 Brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Baytown, Texas (8 Jul) - Tampa, Florida
Cargo: 70578 barrels of aviation gas and lubricating oil
Sunk U67 10.07.42/25/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

20. "RW Gallagher" (7,989 brt)
Owner: Standard Oil Co of New Jersey, New York
Route: Baytown, Texas (10 Jul) - Port Everglades, Florida
Cargo: 80.855 barrels of Bunker C fuel oil
Sunk U67 13.07.42/10/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

21. "Beaconlight" (6,926 brt)
Owner: Panama Transport Co (Standard Oil Co), Panama
Route: Capetown (21 Jun) - Trinidad
Cargo: Ballast
Sunk U160 16.07.42/1/XNUMX - XNUMX dead

In total, during the war the Germans sunk about 120 American tankers, of which almost half belonged to the companies from the group of the former Standard Oil.
Well, one cannot endlessly refer to the frank invention, which is "Trade with the Enemy", even though there are nice things written to someone.
The American has long since withdrawn money on a high-profile topic, and now we are discussing this endlessly.

[Per se.]

Quote: Avior

this is fiction from the book Trade with the Enemy

The point is not in the book, which could be called anything, have errors, conjectures. Trade with the Third Reich was, and this is a fact, American capital has greatly helped the formation of the military power of Nazi Germany. For example, Henry Ford was a well-known anti-Semite, so it is logical that he was one of Hitler's most famous supporters outside Germany. In 1938, on his 75th birthday, he received the Nazi medal “Outstanding Foreigner”. The fact that, in addition to Hitler, Ford also collaborated with the anti-Hitler coalition, completely fits into the famous saying of Harry Truman.

“If we see that Germany wins, then we should help Russia, and if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and let them kill as much as possible, although I do not want under any circumstances to see Hitler in the winners under any circumstances.” circumstances. None of them keep their word.

Most importantly, Hitler would never have created the Third Reich, would not have pumped up military power, if he had not been allowed to, turning a blind eye to all the restrictions of Versailles, moreover, giving Austria and Czechoslovakia to Hitler, and then virtually all of Europe. Everything for the sake of sufficient potential against the USSR. The rest, from the evil one, is a "strange war", this is the evacuation of the British from near Dunkirk, for the sake of which Hitler stopped the advance of German troops for actually three days.

Yes, the States needed to find a reason to enter the war (although the American people did not want this), and for this they provoked Japan to attack. Pearl Harbor became a litmus for righteous anger and an excellent occasion. Just, the Yankees didn’t calculate a bit, the Japanese modified torpedoes for shallow water, and got armor-piercing bombs by simply welding stabilizers to large-caliber artillery shells. Therefore, instead of the alleged farce, the Yankees got a pogrom, losing virtually the entire linear fleet in the Pacific Ocean.

Alexander Samsonov exaggerates a little, attributing all the "villainy" to the States alone, we must not forget about the British crown, the United States only its overseas miscarriage, an elephant in a china shop, a bouncer, in the service of the true masters of world capitalism, and these are not only the Yankees, and even not only the British "queen-queen" of the Anglo-Saxon world, this is both the Jewish lobby and the owners of transnational corporations, all those who have become the actual masters of the world capitalist system, even if the United States is in the center of it. On the whole, Alexander is right, capitalism is an absolute evil, and this must be understood without indulging oneself with illusions that having got into capitalism, having picked it up from the dustbin of history, modern Russia will be allowed to live in capitalism, and be free from its laws, be independent from its world owners.

[Avior]

Samsonov does not exaggerate, he composes
I think dragging this book is simply a bad tone in the discussion. But other....
The issues that you raised, they have long been discussed, including on the site.
Truman said these words in 1941 immediately after the outbreak of the war, at that time he was a pawn in American politics, completely different ones decided. And, mind you, a few days before this, the USSR was completely friends with Germany, and Truman's position for America was quite logical, albeit cynical.
But Roosevelt decided, and everything went completely different.
The fact that America was building something in Germany, so it did the same in the USSR, they actively participated in the same Dneproges. But after the outbreak of the war, there were no fiction from the book.
The fact that Ford at one time in the 1920s supported anti-Semitic views, so already in 1927 he wrote an open letter

As a man of honor, I consider it my duty to apologize for all the evil deeds I have committed with respect to the Jews, my fellow citizens and brothers, and I ask them for forgiveness for the harm that I caused them for no good reason. I renounce insulting accusations against them, since there was a lie in my actions, and also I give a full guarantee that from now on they can expect from me only a display of friendship and goodwill. Not to mention the fact that pamphlets that were distributed in the United States and abroad will be withdrawn from circulation.

His views are personally his views, and not official state policy.
The same Ford restored the USSR - Ford's Fordson - Putilovets - the first Soviet tractor, the Gorky Automobile Plant, Moskovsky - he had a hand in it.
And if you pull from the history of individual pieces, and even add frank lies, as the author of the book did, you can prove anything, especially if the reader wants to believe without checking

[Per se.]

Quote: Avior

The same Ford restored the USSR

Sergey, let's first decide. Germany, after the First World War, fell under the restrictions stipulated by the conditions of the Versailles Peace. In particular, there were sharp restrictions on the army and navy, many types of weapons were generally banned. The Soviet Union did not have such restrictions in the treaties. If desired, whether it was, it was easy to track any cooperation that allowed the creation of weapons prohibited for Germany. Moreover, Hitler slam as soon as violations were revealed. Nothing of the kind, all eyes were closed, although England and the United States were in the first category of those who worked out the conditions of Versailles restrictions.

Nazism and fascism, then and now, is a favorite "antidote" of the West against communism, Hitler was needed against the USSR, the Third Reich was supposed to become anti-USSR, so that if not to destroy the development of communism from Russia, then mortally weaken the Soviet Union, that Hitler and worked for the West. The destruction of the USSR, that was the main thing, but the fact that we collaborated with the Germans ... Cooperated with the Italians, so what? Maybe the main mistake was that there could be a hope that the German workers' National Socialist Party is closer to us than the bourgeois governments of Europe and America ... The hope of peace with an antagonist, an antipode, a mortal enemy could not give anything good.

Yes, ordinary Americans, the British, died at sea, in the air, on land, fighting Nazism, but for all sorts of ghouls like the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, other wealthy people in power, they were "fighting dogs" dying for their masters, who they made bets, received colossal super profits in the war, which was needed for this. Here, too, this must be distinguished, there was the American people, and there was a lot of capital, and these are two big differences.

The Soviet Union perished not to a small extent because people like Nikita Sergeevich, once again believed in the possibility of peaceful coexistence with a mortal enemy, an antagonist, decided to flirt with the West. Gorbachev brought this to the finale of the great country. Now they are trying to prove that some kind of independent, "parallel" capitalism is possible for Russia, without control and dependence on the West, on the masters of this already established, world pole of power.

Of course, I express only my opinion, and in any case, thank you for your attention and opposing arguments.

[Mavrikiy]

The USA had its own goals in the war, England had its own and they didn’t share their plans.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The USA had its own goals in the war, England had its own and they didn’t share their plans.

Yeah ... and ABC-1 is a fiction, there really was nothing like that.

[figwam]

Quote: Mathafaka

America of the 30s didn’t want any war, it was a society of isolationists,

Yeah, 8 aircraft carriers of isolationism)))

[Alexey RA]

Quote: figvam

Yeah, 8 aircraft carriers of isolationism)))

And this is so that no one even dares to encroach on American isolationism and the American "sphere of co-prosperity."
All the more so isolationism in the USA was understood within the framework of the Monroe Doctrine, according to which both America were the zone of exclusive interests of the USA.

[Octopus]

Quote: figvam

8 aircraft carriers

1. Is that the 8th? Langley or something, an aircraft carrier? Hornet, by the way, on December of the 41st skies. Kimmel has 3 (three) aircraft carriers versus 6 for Nagumo.
2. Do you even know that the aircraft carrier of that period, according to all kinds of admirals of the King, is a reconnaissance ship under the main forces?

[figwam]

Quote: Octopus

Is that the 8th? Langley or something, an aircraft carrier?

For some reason, without referring to your opinion in the United States, Langley was considered an aircraft carrier.

Quote: Octopus

Do you even know that the aircraft carrier of that period, according to all kinds of admirals of the King, is a reconnaissance ship under the main forces?

Yes, of course, they still go around the world and scout.

[Octopus]

Quote: figvam

Langley was considered an aircraft carrier

Seaplane transport since the 37th year.

Quote: figvam

still go around the world and scout

With you it is clear, Nimitz is not distinguished from Langley.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: figvam

For some reason, without referring to your opinion in the United States, Langley was considered an aircraft carrier.

Only until 1936, when it bore the CV-1 tail number. After that "Langley" changed the type to "air transport" and the tail number to AV-3.

Quote: figvam

Yes, of course, they still go around the world and scout.

And what does today's tactics of using AB have in the 30s?
In the 30s of the last century, AB was entrusted with two main tasks:
1. Scout with the main forces of the squadron. In this case, first of all, the AB had to detect the same AB of the enemy. Because the second task was:
2. Counterintelligence - the destruction of enemy reconnaissance and its carrier / carriers. AB was to be the first to detect the enemy's AB at any cost and strike at them, "blinding" the enemy squadron.
In addition, the AV had to finish off the damaged "big pots" of the enemy and work along the coast.
The main striking force of the USN and its backbone were considered battleships.

[Octopus]

Quote: Alexey RA

In addition, the AV had to finish off the damaged "big pots" of the enemy and work along the coast

The Americans are not very happy with this. The British were compelled to finish off wounded animals or to brake the escaping enemy. Bismarck will not let you lie.
But the idea that aviation can independently be the queen fields at least waves - Japanese. Through this success, through this new tactic, massaging AB and Alfastrike.

Quote: Alexey RA

It was the fleet, because the army in the person of the eccentric MacArthur had its own plan and its own direction.

Well, actually MacArthur offered a reliable and relatively cheap solution. But Nimitz’s plan is to create an utterly never-before-seen marine grouping for unbelievable money. He could have worked and shortened the war by striking across the ocean directly to the Japanese islands, but the Americans chose both plans at once. And they inconceivable inconceivable money in the fleet, and lost time and tens of thousands of people from palm to palm.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Octopus

The British were compelled to finish off wounded animals or to brake the escaping enemy. Bismarck will not let you lie.

They simply did not have a choice: high-speed LCs are expensive, so they will have to fight, including the Nelsons, Lizzies and Erami. And in order for these LCs to catch up with the enemy, he needs to knock down the move.
Well, RN could not afford eleven high-speed post-Washington LCs.

[Octopus]

Quote: Alexey RA

eleven high-speed post-Washington LCs.

Do not understand. Americans have twelve, unless you count Alaska and Guam as one.
The British have nine, minus Wangard, Hood, Ripals, Duke, there are five left. Three Germans, three Italians, but I am inclined to consider that 5 English is more than 3 Italians and three such Germans.

Or is it about pre-war ideas?

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Mathafaka

America 30s did not want any war

America with its "credits" (in fact, irrecoverable loans) in the 20-30s. nurtured the German and Japanese military, and then began an arms race, the first to multiply its military budget.
In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this? The answer is obvious. After the First World War, England and France were drained of blood, they completely lack passionarity, and Germany and Japan simply physically and economically could not claim the role of "world masters."

[Vasily Ponomarev]

Quote: pmkemcity

Quote: Mathafaka

America 30s did not want any war

America with its "credits" (in fact, irrecoverable loans) in the 20-30s. nurtured the German and Japanese military, and then began an arms race, the first to multiply its military budget.
In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this? The answer is obvious. After the First World War, England and France were drained of blood, they completely lack passionarity, and Germany and Japan simply physically and economically could not claim the role of "world masters."

show you who really spent the most on arms?

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Vasily Ponomarev

Quote: pmkemcity

Quote: Mathafaka

America 30s did not want any war

America with its "credits" (in fact, irrecoverable loans) in the 20-30s. nurtured the German and Japanese military, and then began an arms race, the first to multiply its military budget.
In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this? The answer is obvious. After the First World War, England and France were drained of blood, they completely lack passionarity, and Germany and Japan simply physically and economically could not claim the role of "world masters."

show you who really spent the most on arms?

Complete nonsense! In the 20s, Russia did not even have an army! Who drew this cartoon? Do you want to prove America's peacefulness with these pictures? Why did they start from 1830, why not from the Nativity of Christ or the Trojan War? In addition, all "superior" countries from America were financed primarily at its expense.

[Fitter65]

Quote: pmkemcity

Complete nonsense! In the 20s, Russia didn’t have an army! Who drew this cartoon? Do you want to prove America’s peacefulness with these pictures?

Not at all nonsense, the United States during its existence did not spend a ruble on weapons.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Fitter65

did not spend a single ruble

Accurate remark! Just add - and not a penny!

[Fitter65]

Quote: pmkemcity

Quote: Fitter65

did not spend a single ruble

Accurate remark! Just add - and not a penny!

It will be more precise

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Vasily Ponomarev

show you who really spent the most on arms?

Are you hinting at France?

[Jack O'Neill]

The Americans invested in the German economy not because they raised the 3rd Reich, but because they wanted to take their money from the UK and France, which they gave them a loan to WWII.
And since France and Great Britain had virtually nothing to pay, the repayment of the loan depended on the reparations of Germany in France and Great Britain.
Moreover, the United States gave Germany the same credit, but in the end it was severely broken off when Hitler sent everyone away for a long time.
In reality, the United States ceased to support Germany even before the Nazis came to power, and after the Nazis came, the United States, strangely enough, actively condemned this, like Great Britain and France.
If you do not understand, then I will say it easier; The United States simply did not let the German economy die, at least before it repaid loans and reparations!

[dSK]

Well done Samsonov - you can’t hide the truth!
American director Oliver Stone, in an interview with RT leader and former Ecuadorian president Rafael Correa, said that the United States has become “the power of evil” for ordinary people.
RT in Russian on January 30 at 20:39

the director explained his idea. - I must say with regret (since I love my country!) That we have become a force of evil. We have become the power of evil for people, for those who want reforms, for those who seek to change things. For people! For ordinary people! And nothing comes of it. I know that will fail. This will return to us as a boomerang. A certain historical force is at work in the world. "
- And that said an atheist.

[dSK]

Director Oliver Stone called the United States an "evil empire" and an "evil force" that has a devastating effect on "human history." He rebuked America for exposing the world to the danger of nuclear war. “What we have done with Russia is simply awful,” the director is convinced and predicted the US fate of the USSR.
the guest of the program drew attention to what "terrible things" did the same incumbent President of the United States Donald Trump, recalling the withdrawal from the "nuclear deal" with Iran. However, Stone considers America's withdrawal from the "nuclear power" to be the "worst and most dangerous" act of the head of the White House. agreement".
"He (Trump - Ed.) Just lied about this," the director explained.
Oliver Stone reproached the United States for exposing the whole world to the danger of nuclear war. "We are showing aggression by developing new nuclear weapons," - lists the interlocutor Correa, believing that this "will never end."

[dSK]

Newspaper.Ru Newspaper.Ru (05/02/20.)
Putin: humanity has turned out to be a dangerous trait.
“Unfortunately, today humanity is again at a dangerous line: regional conflicts are multiplying, threats of terrorism and extremism are growing, the arms control system is collapsing, the global economy is also in an unstable state, "the head of the Russian Federation noted.

[Octopus]

Quote from dsk

Director Oliver Stone calls USA "evil empire"

American leftist is a completely unique natural phenomenon. Unforgettable Valeria Ilinichna, land in fluff, against their background was just the Dowager Empress.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Jack O'Neill

If you do not understand, then I will say it easier; The United States simply did not let the German economy die, at least before it repaid loans and reparations!

Do not go to school, you know everything yourself. What reparations, what loans? It was about world domination for the United States, and he Hitler, Hitler .... The USA and England fed the 3rd Reich and the USSR, but with different goals. The United States in order for the Reich to crush England, and then the USSR will finish it off. English scenario: the Reich ruins the USSR, and then democracy to his fingernail. The United States launched its game: the Reich attacked England, but then there was an interception and England all the same threw it at the USSR.
In life, everything is not going according to plan. The USSR was not defeated, but the USA is the gendarme of the world.

[Octopus]

Quote: pmkemcity

America with its "credits" (in fact, irrecoverable loans)

Irrevocable loans are Lend-Leases in the USSR, and the topic of its irrevocability was brought to the attention of the Americans by Comrade Stalin after 45. The damned capitalists have no concept of "irrevocable loan", re-read the Krokodil magazine for 1972.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Octopus

re-read the magazine Crocodile for the 1972nd year.

Where can I find one? Mnu only records have 70s.

[Alex_59]

Quote: pmkemcity

In addition, as in any detective story, ask the question - who needed all this?

If the conclusion follows from this question that the United States was profitable, then it turns out that the USSR was the main accomplice. Because the USA and the USSR received the greatest profit as a result of the war. The Union is slightly smaller, the United States is slightly larger. That is, along the way, the USSR is also the culprit of WWII. Lord, what a heresy ...

[dSK]

In Russia, only 40 million dead, half of the country in ruins.
What cities were bombed in the States? - is not heresy?

[Alex_59]

Quote from dsk

is not heresy?

Yes, the whole article is heresy. To read it, the United States possessed such power that one wonders. Why war at all with such and such greatness? A delusional text, in which if you change the United States to Russia and print somewhere in the Times - there will be excellent Russophobic garbage about Putin's interference in the American elections - chewing gum for housewives from Boston.
The author is not even interested in what the US country was like in the 20s and 30s. What nafig manageable conflicts? What kind of intervention? In those years, their first task was not to lean back on their own. Depression, hunger, unemployment ... There were not those of the USA that is now.
And how did it turn out that they beat everyone? Well, it happened like that. When Hitler started all this, he apparently did not assume that something would go wrong. But it has gone. If in the 30s someone in Paris or Berlin would say that in 15 years the USSR would control half of Europe, and communism would spread to half the world, they would send him to a psychiatric hospital. Is this poor Russia? Do not you say!
Same thing with the USA. No one thought that a superpower with unprecedented influence in the world would emerge from a rank and file Western country, not the most powerful against the backdrop of Britain or France, lying in a deep crisis and self-isolation in a few years. So it happened.

[Bobrick]

The United States was no longer an ordinary Western country in the 20s. At least in terms of infrastructure (industrial, transport, energy), the United States was superior to any other country, the number of cars per capita alone indicates this (in 1938 there were 231 cars per 1000 people, and this, after the great depression, in Russia this level appeared only in 21 century, in France for the same year - 80).
Cars require roads, oil exploration, heaps of refineries and gas stations, automobile plants, steel, cast iron, rubber, lampposts and road signs, after all.

During the Second World War, the Americans made half of all weapons in monetary terms, or about 44%, the USSR and Germany each about 15% (one battleship in production only for steel costs like a tank corps).

And it should have appeared just like that, from the "middle country" of the West, with zero economic growth after the depression, from a country that in its best years gave 7-8% of economic growth ?!
Is this the magic of capitalism?

[Alex_59]

Quote: Bobrick

Is this the magic of capitalism?

Well, let's say I exaggerated about the "ordinary country of the West", but my main idea is that one cannot judge the United States of that time by the current USA. It was not that cool and dominant country. Yes, they had a powerful economy, but at the same time there were problems over the roof, and depression and isolationist policies ruled out scenarios like those described in the article. The United States did not rule the whole world as the author wants.
As for magic, there was magic. Thanks to the war and a certain policy of Roosevelt (in many ways, by the way, similar to that of Stalin), the USA reached a new level of economic and industrial power. But the USSR had its own magic - industrialization, after which the deeply agrarian and devastated country suddenly became a superpower with a nuclear bomb and astronautics.

[Bobrick]

There is such an approach in Western historiography that only the Germans are to blame for both world wars, and the Soviet Union will soon become the second, but this is not even close.

As an example of the Second World War, since 33, Hitlerite Germany committed many violations of the Versailles Peace Treaty, from the beginning of the construction of aviation and navy, to the occupation of the Rhineland. For each such violation, it was possible to carry out an operation of "enforcing peace" (this was done with Paraguay in the 19th century, this was done with Turkey before the First World War), especially since the German army was 100 thousand people without heavy weapons and tanks, and the French army was the strongest in Europe, and even the armies of Poland and Czechoslovakia could easily resist such a force.

Here questions really arise, and was it not the West that wanted a world war?

[Alex_59]

Quote: Bobrick

Here questions really arise, and was it not the West that wanted a world war?

I agree that not only Germany is guilty. Rather, the immediate main culprit is Germany, but the prerequisites for the war were formed not only by it. Here the leading role belongs to France, Great Britain and even Poland. But certainly not the USA and not the USSR.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Alex_59

If the conclusion follows from this question that the United States was profitable, then it turns out that the USSR was the main accomplice. Because the USA and the USSR received the greatest profit as a result of the war. The Union is slightly smaller, the United States is slightly larger. That is, along the way, the USSR is also the culprit of WWII. Lord, what a heresy ...

What is the "profit" - 25 million dead, 50 million unborn, destroyed industry and economy, impoverished Europe and China, which must be fed with "Russian blood"? Is it that the Judeo-Masonic adherents of the world revolution rubbed their hands ... And so they were a link in the chain of American politics.

[Alex_59]

Quote: pmkemcity

What is the "profit" - 25 million dead, 50 million unborn, destroyed industry and economy, impoverished Europe and China, which must be fed with "Russian blood"?

You did not understand my thought. The author of the article and his supporters argue that the United States deliberately unleashed WWII to get a profit. I affirm that the profit that the winners received as a result of WWII was not their goal, this is the result not of their intentional efforts, but of the mistakes of the real culprits of the war - Germany and allies. That is, the United States did not start a war, but being drawn into it squeezed the maximum out of this situation. And in this sense, the USSR was in exactly the same position - the USSR did not start a war, but being drawn into it, and having suffered serious losses, in the end, too, tried to squeeze the maximum benefit out of what happened. The United States and the USSR are in a similar position in this sense, but this of course does not mean that the benefits and damage received in the war are identical. Of course, the USSR suffered much more, and the benefits received are less than those received by the United States. But still - the difference between the USSR of 1938 and the USSR of 1948 is unbelievable. In the 38th, it is almost a third world country, little influencing and with the opinion of which few people reckon. And in the 48th, it is one of the two most powerful countries on the planet.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Alex_59

You did not understand my thought.

Strongly disagree with you. The USA started a war. If you are not lazy, read about the relationship of the United States, for example, with Japan in the prewar years. And if you are able to at least somehow extrapolate what you read, then I assure you, you can certainly compare it with the current US policy with regard to Russia - it's just tracing paper! American imperialism simply led Japan to the slaughter. Japanese society, lacking a little philosophical culture and intoxicated by the Russo-Japanese and World War I, was simply not able to understand the whole picture of what was happening.

[Alex_59]

Quote: pmkemcity

Strongly disagree with you. The USA started a war.

Roosevelt did not hold a gun at the temple of the Japanese emperor when he decided to launch an invasion of China or send aircraft carriers to bomb Pearl Harbor. The blame definitely lies with the Japanese.
Or another example. You are an American. Walking down the street, you suddenly see a Japanese man killing a Chinese man with a knife. Then he chases the Korean and cuts him. Finally he runs up to you and stabs you, but you are a clever cowboy and, having survived this blow, knock out the Japanese. In the next scene, you are sitting in court, and the Japanese says: I am a naive fool, I was provoked by an American, and because of this I killed two people and cut him too. I ask you to acquit me, but all the blame lies with the American. And the court takes his side, acquits the murderer of several people, and sends you to the electric chair. Well, or "White Swan". Do you think that everything is logical and correct in this example?

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Alex_59

I ask you to acquit me, and all the blame lies with the American. And the court takes his side, acquits the murderer of several people, and sends you to the electric chair. Well, or "White Swan". Do you think that in this example everything is logical and correct

Illogical. As a result, as Gleb Zheglov said, a criminal community arose, called the gang in the common people. And the American was the leader in this gang, as the Japanese acted on the direct instructions of the latter and in his interests.
The Japanese should be given a spot as a class-physical element, and the American to the highest degree, as the enemy of all mankind.
Unfortunately, now this is just a refusal of assistance - a fine of 800000 rubles. Article 125 of the Criminal Code

[Alex_59]

Quote: pmkemcity

As a result, as Gleb Zheglov said, a criminal community arose, called the gang in the common people. And the American was the leader in this gang, as the Japanese acted on the direct instructions of the latter and in his interests.

As Sharapov said - we are employees of the MUR, we have no right to defame. So you need proof. And you do not have it. ))) Just as there are none of these Poles who groan that they are guilty at the beginning of the war of the USSR, and not Hitler. )))

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Alex_59

So you need proof. And you do not have it.

I have no proof. She is in history:
The Annals magazine wrote in October 1938: “... Of all the economic factors, there is one that China could not have foreseen. The Chinese people could not assume that America would help Japan in this war. "The United States is sending more strategic raw materials to Japan than to all the rest of the world."

The law on US neutrality, passed by Congress, actually turned out to be the law on aid to aggressors. He played a significant role in promoting Japanese aggression. Even the New York Times admitted: “Under the guise of neutrality, this law establishes a policy that in some cases assists Japan and deprives China of our assistance. This law gives foreign states the right to decide with whom we should trade ”(1).

Former US Secretary of State Stimson put it even more specifically. He stated in the fall of 1937: “At present, the Japanese aggressor is receiving support from the United States and the British Empire. However, we are not just helping Japan. Our help is so effective and great that without it, Japanese aggression would be unthinkable and would cease very soon ”(2).

Indeed, the United States has become the main military supplier of Japanese imperialism from the very beginning of the Japanese invasion of China. Therefore, the American press itself stated that the Japanese captured the capital of China in 1937 only as a result of American economic assistance. The American publicist Harry Paxton Howard wrote in his article “The Future of the Far East”: “In 1937, the Japanese could not have forced the Chinese to cleanse Nanjing if it were not for the active economic assistance from the United States.” Right there, Howard recognizes the enormous role that American politics played in the development of Japanese militarism in general. “The supply of Japan with military materials for conducting aggressive wars did not begin in 1937 ... Indeed, for several generations, the United States has been the vital economic force of Japanese militarism” (3).
In 1937 alone (mainly in the second half of this year, when Japan invaded China), American oil trusts delivered 35 million barrels of oil to Japan. A significant part of it was transported from the United States to the warehouses of the Japanese military departments on American tankers.

In 1937, Japan imported 2 million grams of iron and steel scrap for its military industry from the USA and the British Empire - 4 times more than in 1936. In the same 1937, the USA sold machine tools and machines to Japan, mainly for military factories, more than 150 million yen. In 1938, the United States sold even more oil, scrap iron and steel, machines and machine tools, motor vehicles, airplanes, lead, and copper to Japan than in 1937.

In 1939, US exports of strategic materials and equipment to Japan increased even more. In 1939, the Americans equipped the Japanese Kawasaki aircraft plants with their new machines. American experts, seconded by Lockheed and Douglas, arrived in Japan in May 1939 to consult on issues of mass production of aircraft. The Americans participated in the construction of Japanese military airfields, American exports to Japan in 1939 exceeded $ 232 million and amounted to 7,3% of all US exports. US imports from Japan in the same year reached 7% of total imports (6).

In addition to exporting military materials to Japan, large American firms also delivered military-strategic materials to Manchuria - directly to the warehouses of the Kwantung Army, aimed against the Soviet Union. This was even noted by US Secretary of State Hull. According to the US Department of Commerce, the export of strategic military materials from the US to Manchuria in 1937 and 1938. increased by more than 5 times compared with 1936. Only through Dairen was it imported American military materials worth $ 16 million in 1937 and $ 17 million in 1938 against $ 3,5 million in 1936 (7).
The United States also remained the most important market for Japanese goods, absorbing more than 40% of Japanese exports (not counting the countries of the “new block”).
At the same time, American trade with unoccupied regions of China was expressed in completely insignificant figures. The vast majority of US imports to China from the fall of 1937 went to ports occupied by the Japanese army, and thus again fell into Japanese hands. In any case, this part of the import did not have any significance for the military economy of unoccupied China. All US exports to both occupied and non-occupied regions of China in 1938 amounted to only $ 35 million, and exports to Japan - $ 240 million.
The British government and the English monopolies both carried out their policies in this spirit. England concluded in particular an agreement with Japan on Chinese customs in the spring of 1938, and provided tonnage for the transport of Japanese troops and military cargo to China.
Under an agreement on Chinese customs, the British pledged to transfer customs revenues in the occupied regions of Japan, thus depriving China of one of the sources of financing its defensive war and turning this source to financing Japanese aggression. The income of the Japanese invaders from customs in 1938 was already about 100 million yen. In the same 1938, the export of strategic materials from the British Empire to Japan amounted to about 20% of all Japanese imports of these materials (11). (67% of all imports of military materials were imported from the United States in the same year.) Up to 40% of all Japanese exports (excluding the “new block” countries) went to the British Empire.

Of the 1,8 million tonnage used by Japan in December 1937 for the transfer of troops and military materials to China, half belonged to foreigners, including the British - 466 thousand tons. A very large amount of the English tonnage was chartered by the Japanese in 1938. Thus, the British shipowners provided substantial assistance to the Japanese aggressors.
The largest Kailan coal mines in Northern China, controlled by English capital, from the autumn of 1937 supplied coal mainly to the Japanese occupiers in China. London banks provided these mines in 1938 with a loan of 1 million pounds. Art. to expand their production.

[Alex_59]

Quote: pmkemcity

Annals magazine wrote

The name of the magazine clearly characterizes the quality of such proofs. I believe that if you believe the press so much that you consider it a source of evidence, then you believe the statements of the American press about Russia's interference in the US election? Or do you prefer to believe the press selectively, how is it profitable for you?
Well, even if so, then I read in this overly large quote about US trade with Japan. And why would Japan not trade with the United States in 1938? We seem to be at the same time trading with Germany. What does this prove? Is it possible that since we were trading with Germany, are we also to blame for the beginning of WWII? But in the USA this is done by private business, to which the US president does not have a decree, not like in the USSR. Who knows who they trade with. And the article shows that trade continued after the Japanese attack on China. And again - so what? Today we trade with Ukraine and the USA. Although the United States spread rot on our allies (Iran) and even bombed (Syria), and the Ukrainians themselves know what. So is it our fault that this is exactly what happens? But the Germans already ate Poland, and we traded with them in 1939 and in 1940. Well? Is the USSR guilty of something?

In short. There are the Nuremberg and Tokyo Tribunals. Where in black and white it is carved who is to blame and who is the winner. They did not use the "analys" as evidence, but documents and witnesses. So far, everyone accepts the decisions of these tribunals. The USA and the USSR are not guilty. Germany and Japan are guilty. So the international tribunal decided. It is foolish to argue with this. Anyone who claims that the United States is guilty denies the decisions of these tribunals, which means that he denies that the USSR was the winner. I don’t think it makes common sense. There is no need to shake the decisions of these tribunals, because we, too, stand on them. And without this they want to push us out of there.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Alex_59

The USA and the USSR are not guilty. Germany and Japan are guilty. So decided the international tribunal. It's silly to argue with that.

Long words only upset you! In jurisprudence there is such a concept as "woe to the vanquished." No one called Germany guilty. The following were found guilty:
On October 1, 1946, the International Military Tribunal sentenced:

Sentenced to death by hanging:
Hermann Goering,
Martin Borman (in absentia),
Ernst Kaltenbrunner,
Joachim von Ribbentrop
Wilhelm Keitel,
Alfred Rosenberg,
Hans Frank,
Wilhelm Frick,
Julius Streicher,
Fritz Sauckel,
Arthur Zeiss-Inquart,
Alfred Jodl.
To life imprisonment: Rudolf Hess, Walter Funk and Erich Raeder.
To 20 years in prison: Baldur von Schirach and Albert Speer.
To 15 years in prison: Konstantin von Neurath.
To 10 years in prison: Karl Dönitz.
Justified: Hans Frice, Franz von Papen and Hialmar Schacht.
The tribunal accused the SS, SD, Gestapo [14] and the leadership of the Nazi party of criminal activity.

The Nazi cabinet, the General Staff and the High Command of the Wehrmacht (OKW) were not recognized as criminal organizations [7].

[Mavrikiy]

Well, where is England bleeding? Spent a little war, but the empire stood like a rock. In 1929, it closed its colonial markets from the United States, which intensified, and the United States wished to destroy the empire.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Well, where is England bleeding? Spent a little war, but the empire stood like a rock. In 1929, it closed its colonial markets from the United States, which intensified, and the United States wished to destroy the empire.

Then it sank into a great depression ... Everyone was dependent on the United States, and the markets were closed to survive at least somehow.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Well, where is England bleeding? Spent a little war, but the empire stood like a rock.

Just compare the state of the Island Empire's symbol - Royal Navy - before WWI and after WWI. Multipower standard, dozens of battleships - where is it all? In 1931, after another cut in RN spending, it even came to a "big pot" mutiny.

[Octopus]

Quote: Alexey RA

A multi-power standard, dozens of battleships - where is it all?

And where did it all go, sorry? While the Marylands are building, Americans + Japanese are weaker than the British alone, if we count only superdreadnoughts. Then they are relatively equal, but two on one.

Quote: Alexey RA

yet another cut in RN costs, it even went as far as the "big pots" mutiny.

So there is Prime Minister MacDonald, the laborer. To raise the socialist revolution is the very thing.

[chenia]

Quote: Octopus

And where did it all go, sorry?

British losses in WWI are significant. Look at the population in 1913-14 and in 1920. Horror - minus 4 million (well, there the Spaniard helped). Well, material losses. It was only in RI that the population growth was 1,2-1,5 million / year.
And in WWII they had a freebie (but the empire was not preserved).

[Octopus]

And I do not argue that the PMV for Western Europe is heavier than WWII. It was about the fact that Britain was lost somewhere after it. No, I’m not lost at all.

[chenia]

Quote: Octopus

No, not lost at all

I agree. The paradox is that in the aftermath of WWII they retained their influence and empire. with big losses. But in WWII, everything was exactly the opposite.
Of course, there is almost no US guilt in WWII. But the shaves are tied to the fullest. Even the Franks are here on the sidelines (well, they didn’t have straits with Germany). And there wasn’t much confidence that Germany would move to the USSR immediately (the idea of ​​pitting the USSR and Germany was tempting), and not clean the rear at first. But the Britons convinced.

[dSK]

Harry Es Truman (1884 - 1972), 33rd US President (1945-1953 from the Democratic Party), Baptist, high-ranking Mason (in 1959 he was awarded an honorary award in honor of 50 years of service to the Masonic Order:
"If we see that Germany is winning the war, we should help Russia, if Russia is winning, we should help Germany
и let them kill each other as much as possible"(wikipedia);

[dSK]

John Davison Rockefeller, founder of the huge oil empire Standard Oil Company, Rockefeller Foundation and many other companies:
"The American rose can be grown in all its beauty and splendor by mercilessly pruning the weak shoots around."
- he became the richest man in the world, at one time, his condition at the time of his death was 1,4 billion US dollars (face value of 1937) or 1,54% of US GDP. Adjusted for inflation, The New York Times estimates its wealth at around $ 305 billion in 2006 equivalent.

[Octopus]

Quote from dsk

let them kill each other as much as possible

... but in any case, I do not want to see Hitler a winner. Neither one nor the other can be trusted in anything.

This is an absolutely reasonable position. Truman then strongly regretted that he had forgotten these very words in Potsdam.

[chenia]

Quote: Octopus

Truman then strongly regretted that he had forgotten these very words in Potsdam.

And where did he go? The senator could chat, whatever. the president is no more.
End the war with Japan alone? Moreover, territorial problems (Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands), the Japanese would have surrendered the USSR (if only they had not climbed into the war).
Relying on previous agreements (Truman was bound by them as well), but the USSR could pull as much as he wanted (he had the right, they say they were weakened after a terrible war, and this can be understood). but at the same time getting on LL is not measured (and where would the states go?).
And to gain a foothold in Europe (communists everywhere, they basically fought with the Nazis). while the states are connected. At the same time help China (Mao). And the Japanese are encouraging, portraying a mediator (they would have been grateful for that, if only they had not beaten).
And if you transform the words of Truman, and put in the mouth of Stalin (well, you understand) then how?
Here Trump (except for the nuclear ace) was with Stalin.

[Octopus]

Hm. You're trying to get me to set foot on the crooked path of altistory.

Quote: chenia

if the words of Truman transform, and put in the mouth of Stalin

Mr. Truman spoke, and Comrade Stalin did. Or are you not aware of the already mentioned rialpolitik of 1939-1941?

Quote: chenia

End the war with Japan alone?

War with japan was finished alone. No the participation of Soviet forces in Downfall never not supposed to.

Quote: chenia

at the same time getting on LL is not measured (and where would the states go?).

The sane part of the Americans demanded that LL be stopped in the fall of the 44th. Deliveries to the USSR no longer contributed to the defense of the United States. There were serious conversations with Stettinius on this subject after the war.

Quote: chenia

Rely on previous agreements (and Truman was bound by them)

Neither Stalin, much less Truman was bound by any agreements.

Quote: chenia

communists everywhere

In France and Italy.

Hang. First of all, in the USA itself.

Quote: chenia

At the same time help China (Mao).

It was because of Mao that Comrade Stalin was not allowed to go into Asian affairs for a kilometer.

Quote: chenia

reassure mediator

And what the hell is such an intermediary for the Americans? What is Secretary of State Byrnes getting paid for?

You seem to have a poor understanding of how much Americans lost to Comrade Stalin in the 45th.

[chenia]

Quote: Octopus

and comrade Stalin did. Or are you not aware of the already mentioned rialpolitik of 1939-1941?

That's what it was, let the guys eat the dish that they themselves prepared. Even giving up the pact would be a stupid move. And the fact that the soyuznichki turned out to be liquidish no one could have foreseen.

Quote: Octopus

The war with Japan was over alone

Oh well. Sound please land of the battle. Not to offer a Gaudalcanal (army operation). and if such a ratio of losses, then I am sorry for the Americans (although not very). American land operations are something. They and the island without the Japanese took themselves so killed that the enemy is not necessary.
And what would happen when millions of groups clashed scary to think.

Quote: Octopus

The sane part of the Americans demanded that LL be stopped in the fall of the 44th.

Until the summer of 1943 (Kursk Bulge) we received only 6-8% of LL (only 26% -28%).
And after the war, they somehow managed to implement a nuclear program. and space. and nuclear submarines to build and, moreover, it was necessary to restore the destroyed and still helped the allies. At the same time, the Yankees put in Korea. And what is interesting is completely without LL. Thank you, though.

Quote: Octopus

Hang. First of all, in the USA itself.

Yes aggravation of the class struggle. And here some liberalists complain about the 1937 antagonists however.

Quote: Octopus

because of mao

It would be good for the Americans (especially with such a commander as MacArthur) to undo the Chinese land. Oh well.

Quote: Octopus

And what the hell is such an intermediary for the Americans?

So I say, Comrade Stalin did not finalize.

Quote: Octopus

how much Americans lost to comrade Stalin in the 45th.

And they could have done more. Glory to comrade To Stalin! I knew that you would appreciate this historical figure.

[Octopus]

Quote: chenia

In-in and it was necessary,

Yes Yes. Stalin and Truman were right. But only comrade Stalin could realize his ideas.

Quote: chenia

Oh well. Please voice the land battle.

The war with Japan was finished by oneself. To arrange a land company in peacetime is to the USSR, Manchuria.

Quote: chenia

American land operations are something.

You are right, with rare exceptions it is very well executed. Unlike Europe. The scale of action feasible for the Americans made itself felt, the division corps.

Quote: chenia

And what would happen when millions of groups clashed scary to think.

Yeah. Poor Japanese

Quote: chenia

Until the summer of 1943 (Kursk Bulge) we received only 6-8% of LL (only 26% -28%).

It's about the autumn of 44th, the Belarusian operation is over.

Quote: chenia

And after the war, they somehow managed to implement a nuclear program

I seem to have already mentioned the need for radical measures in relation to the Comintern.

Quote: chenia

and space. and nuclear submarines to build

From the Great Victory to another famine in the USSR, 1,5 years. At the same time, God sent comrade To Stalin one useful thing in Washington after another.

Quote: chenia

At the same time, the Yankees put in Korea.

You have not mixed up, for an hour, who inserted whom? There is a draw in geography and 4: 1 in losses (moreover, 2/3 of the Coalition’s losses are Yukoreytsi).
It should be noted that neither Truman, nor Eisenhower and Bradley have grown wiser since the 45th year.

Quote: chenia

Yes aggravation of the class struggle.

What does the class struggle have to do with it? The communist Wallace, vice president of the United States, had nothing to do with the class struggle.
If you are not yet in the know, Soviet power is the enemy of the workers and peasants. Soviet power is a friend of university talkers and newspaper scribblers. Both Marx and Lenin are publicists by profession, not workers and peasants. Mao is such a convinced, fanatical loafer.
As for the workers and peasants, if a friend of the USSR Roosevelt told the peasant Eisenhower in more detail about the Soviet approach to grain procurement, then the latter, probably, at the very sight of a leather jacket would have grabbed a gun.

Gallows is, of course, good, but gallows alone cannot win hybrid wars.

Quote: chenia

It would be good for the Americans (especially with such a commander as MacArthur) to undo the Chinese land

And where did you get the idea that the Americans themselves need to get into China? Before Truman, in pursuit of Eastern Europe, surrendered the USSR to Chiang Kai-shek, Mao did not have much chance. What comrade Mao was for fruit, according to his further successes in peaceful work, it is not difficult to imagine.

Quote: chenia

So I say, Comrade Stalin did not finalize.

I did not understand what he was going to modify here. Unless he would have pissed off Americans a little earlier than real. In real life, the Americans began to glance at the holster closer to the 46th year, incidents with Turkey and Iran.

Quote: chenia

And they could have done more.

Well, they could, of course, have more, of course, a simple matter.

Quote: chenia

Glory to comrade To Stalin!

Shame on American jerks.

[chenia]

Quote: Octopus

with rare exceptions, very well executed

With terrifying superiority. the loss ratio is not impressive. It is at sea that the Yankees eventually began to win with a crushing score. And are they ready for three Japs to lose one of their fighters (well, if the Japanese fought to the limit, like the Germans).

Quote: Octopus

It's about the 44th fall, the Belarusian operation is over

With the same end result, LL still saved a lot of the lives of our customers. Definitely.
But seeing how the Germans resisted, and projecting onto the Japanese (also stubborn guys), the Yankees concluded that without the USSR, victory would be very expensive (and LL is real penny, in comparison with the possible help of the USSR).

Quote: Octopus

Yeah. Poor Japanese

Yes, and they really did not know how to fight (but do not occupy perseverance).

Quote: Octopus

before another famine in the USSR 1,5 years

The echo of the last terrible war. Depressed and Americans were starving and ready to work for a bowl of soup. And this is with overproduction. Feel the difference?

Quote: Octopus

There is a draw in geography and 4: 1 in losses (moreover, 2/3 of the Coalition’s losses are Yukoreytsi).

Because the Americans, even with this ratio, were not ready for big losses. There is will and stamina.

Quote: Octopus

You are not yet aware

I know.

Quote: Octopus

about the Soviet approach to grain procurement,

Hunger in great depression. (And if about the system, then famine in Ireland.)
In order to carry out industrialization, they took credit (yes forcibly) from the peasants, in the 70-80s they began to give back.

Quote: Octopus

surrendered the USSR also to Chiang Kai-shek, Mao had no particular chances.

Here, for sure, something new. So I handed over. what China represented at UN Taiwan.

Quote: Octopus

Shame on American jerks.

And here is the full agreement !!! Finally, our views coincided !!!

[Octopus]

Quote: chenia

loss ratio is not impressive

And then you are not, and this is not so. In Russia, talking about the ratio of losses somehow should not be out of hand, it would seem.

Quote: chenia

if the Japanese fought to the limit like the Germans

And they lost a lot on the Germans?

Quote: chenia

comparison with the possible help of the USSR

Are you having trouble reading? USSR help never not planned, the idea was to wave the Yalta piece of paper - diplomats, not the military.

Quote: chenia

depression and the Americans were merling

And a lot died? Another fan of the great historian Borisov, the discoverer of the Roosevelt famine?

Quote: chenia

Because the Americans, even with this ratio, were not ready for big losses

Who told you that they were unprepared? The story about a million American soldiers was just invented in order to write them off, so to speak, in advance.
Do not confuse the real Americans of that time and the cinematic image of a hippar conscript who fled to Canada from Vietnam. The readiness of the Americans for the losses greatly surprised the British.

Quote: chenia

70-80s began to give

Leaving aside your moral character, to kill several million people in debt, from the thesis about "repayment of debts" to collective farmers in the 80s, I draw the conclusion that you have not seen the late Soviet village in your eyes.

Quote: chenia

So I handed over. what China represented at UN Taiwan

Speaking of who was an American (and Soviet) ally in WWII.

And what about the UN? Let me remind you that all of mainland China has been controlled by rebels since 49 years old.

Quote: chenia

And here is the full agreement !!!

Still would. From the point of view of modern man, Stalin is the enemy, but Roosevelt is a traitor, this is different.

[chenia]

[quote = Octopus] And they lost a lot on the Germans.

Did they fight?
The Germans would have easily rolled them in the summer of the 44th (I already wrote about the military operations of the Allies until the summer of 1943 in Europe). But the Germans by this time (general) had the main idea - to whom to give up? (driven into their head the Red Army.
And while Hitler after the assassination attempt, this thought (it didn’t disappear, but was not so openly manifested) was beaten out, time was lost. and the Ardennes are doomed. Which is basically good. saving the lives of our soldiers.

[quote = Octopus] was never planned, [/ quote]

You say peacocks (well, in the sense of diplomats). Did MacArthur tell you this? Well, this is one. who in Korean demanded a nuclear bombing. And without it (and the Red Army) did not fight, the strength was not enough.

[quote = Octopus] And a lot died? [/ quote]

In abundance. And when every gram of grain was taken into account, and we bought machines and equipment for it. Industrialization has been carried out, and this is the basis of the country's general existence. Just an understanding of the imperfection of the world at that time (and today too) made it possible to implement this as soon as possible. And then there is the crop failure, and the machinations of Kasyor (for the reason that he and the group of leaders were punished).

[quote = Octopus] that they were unprepared [/ quote]

Korea and Vietnam! Although if you recall Forrestal, then yes (the main thing here is not to let such higher floors up and put grilles on the windows), they are always ready to die.
.

[quote = Octopus] that you didn’t see the late Soviet village. [/ quote]

Ha. The country produced 500 thousand tractors per year. about 10 thousand combines, and a bunch of any agricultural farm. technicians.
To whom?
Cattle were bought from the population more expensive than meat was sold. Fuel, electricity penny.
He was not connected with agriculture, but got to harvest (he was an officer, and the SA was involved in this event). So here. where there is a landlord (collective farm chairman or farm director) super order. Milkmaids with golden teeth and mink caps, to the resort to the sea (there is a base there, albeit a few rickety houses, but they seized a piece of the shore). Production enterprises (assembly unit for TV sets !!!) How do you like this? and a bunch of equipment. An autorot was ordered (100 cars), and this is a self-supporting organization (I never thought that in this way I would earn money in the army. True, they gave only bonuses, but big ones), i.e. you also have to pay for it. And managed.
The houses for the collective farmers are two-level (well, they were just starting to build here). Yes, and rewards rained down. And a rather barbaric attitude towards technology (the lads in the Army after DOSSAF, and even more carefully) they need to choose funds.
Well, if the chairman drinks and the whole village with him, and ten years without a crop then -YES.
This is the beginning of the 80s. And you see, you were not lucky to be born in a normal village. Happenes.

[quote = Octopus] who was an American (and Soviet) ally in WWII. [/ quote]

Are you talking about Poles? (London government).

[Octopus]

Quote: chenia

Did they fight?

Suddenly.

Quote: chenia

light would roll them in the summer of the 44th

No rolled out. I will say more, if you take Day D without moving back in the alternative - the Germans have no chance at all.

Quote: chenia

the main idea is who to give up

No surrendered. It is ridiculous to say, but the man who at the very last moment tore Berlin from the hands of the Allies and gave the Red Army turned out to be Walter Wenck (although, of course, before that the very last moment the Americans themselves dug, they should have reached the Elbe already in the 44th, but screwed up).

Of course, this is the fault of the Americans and specifically Roosevelt. His (personally his) idea of ​​unconditional surrender did not allow to establish, um, a constructive dialogue with the German opposition.

Quote: chenia

MacArthur told?

And who do you think planned Downfall?

Quote: chenia

that one. who in Korean demanded a nuclear bombing. And without it (and the Red Army) did not fight, the strength was not enough.

Che you suffered.
1. Where is Korea and where is WWII.
2. Where did you find the Red Army in Korea.
3. What there was not enough strength for him.
4. MacArthur was absolutely right. American plans of the time generally did not allow a limited war, only total. Accordingly, he demanded to act according to these plans, there are no others. Why are there no others? The question is not to him, but to Truman and the General Staff - Eisenhower, then Bradley.

Quote: chenia

when every gram of grain was counted, and on it we bought machines and equipment

Once again I see how a Stalinist exchanges dead children for machine tools, I am surprised again.
By the way. On these machines, the Soviet government made 16 thousand T-26 and BT tanks, which, to hell, disappeared, as if there were none.

Quote: chenia

Kashior’s machinations (for the reason that he and the group of leaders were punished).

Comrade Kosior and a group of Soviet leaders were shot for being a group of not even Soviet and not leaders, but Polish saboteurs and wreckers who were malicious to undermine Soviet power, return the bourgeois and, probably, the tsar. And with the little people they did everything right, there are no questions.

Quote: chenia

Korea and Vietnam

What's wrong with them? Do you even know that for the Americans, these two senseless wars = Hitler's losses?

Quote: chenia

The country produced 500 thousand tractors per year. about 10 thousand combines, and a bunch of any agricultural farm. technicians.
To whom?

To the landfill.

Quote: chenia

funds must be selected.

Yes

Quote: chenia

Milkmaids with golden teeth and mink hats,

I understand you correctly that if a woman 50 years later could afford a hat and a visit to the dentist, you will call it pay for the famine?

Quote: chenia

Are you talking about Poles?

I'm talking about the Homildan, whom Truman surrendered to the Communists. But you are right, the Poles with the Czechs are the same.

[chenia]

Quote: Octopus

Suddenly.

And I recall, Dunkirk, Dieppe, Cyprus. Africa, Sicily, Italy. But not impressive.

Quote: Octopus

Germans have no chance at all

This is not the merit of the Allies, and not a refinement of Himmler. A causal relationship with July 20, 1944. and the "slowdown" of the generals in this theater of operations, you do not catch? It feels like they wanted to lose on purpose.
And guess from three times who brought them to such a state (do not offer bombing — in 1944 the Germans had the highest military output).

Quote: Octopus

Funny to say

Fun hanging on the string of the piano does not work.

Quote: Octopus

Che you suffered.

Not caught? Without the help of an "argument" (in this capacity, either the Red Army or AB), it is impossible to complete the matter. It's about the strength.

Quote: Octopus

Polish saboteurs and pests,

Of course, did you doubt it?

Quote: Octopus

made 16 thousand tanks T-26 and BT,

Yes! Therefore, we won, which we did a lot thanks to Stalin.
And because of the high military they were lost. But they won the time. You know the end result, I hope.

Quote: Octopus

To landfill

Well, what is so primitive? There is little comfort. I agree. But the function performs. and a fairly reliable technique (well, if in the right hands).

Quote: Octopus

pay for the famine?

The population of Ukraine in two years began to increase. But the commies left and suddenly in 30 years of the abundance and triumph of liberalism, the population began to disappear.
In 1991 - 52 million. Over the 30 years of 1960-1990, the population increased by 2,3 -2,5 million. And under the bloodthirsty communists it would be under 60 million. And now 37. Well, where is the pest. By the way, machine tools and factories are all .... blinked, soon we will not grind bolts

.

Quote: Octopus

Truman surrendered to the Communists.

And this agent Creampie? And there was no McCarthy on him. The Washington NKVD also caught tits (for what are they asking for dollars?) ..

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Alexey RA

Multipower standard, dozens of battleships - where is it all? In 1931, after another cut in RN spending, it even came to a "big pot" mutiny.

You write nonsense, dear. Prior to the WWII, BR included (40 pieces) in the number of LCs. and what in WWII to drag them?

[Mavrikiy]

Turn on your head and listen to what smart people say, for example A.I. Fursov.

1929, the Director of the Central Bank of England Montague Norman closes the British Empire market from the outside world, that is, he closed the British Empire from the United States, and more precisely - closed the Rothschild zone from the Rockefeller zone. The main task of the United States was the destruction of the British Empire. And Hitler was to destroy the British Empire, and Stalin was to strike a blow to already victorious Hitler and solve this problem for the States.

America could not close. America needed markets to get out of the crisis, and Canada, Australia, closed 25% of the world’s market.

[Pavel57]

Churchill surrendered the empire to the States.

[Mestny]

Quote: Mathafaka

America of the 30s did not want any war, it was a society of isolationists, they did not need any war, much less in Europe.
Roosevelt went out of his way to help the Soviet Union at 41.
And now he is accused of starting World War 2.
Class.

Well, how should the same justify the collapse of the communist ideology. How? Yes, simple. Enemies If not for them, then we would be hoo!

[Arlen]

Quote: Mestny

Well, how should the same justify the collapse of the communist ideology.

What does the communist ideology and the outbreak of the Second World War?

Quote: Mestny

Enemies If not for them, then we would be hoo!

This is your enchanting expression is generally not clear. Can decrypt?

[Arlen]

Quote: Mathafaka

America of the 30s did not want any war, it was a society of isolationists, they did not need any war, much less in Europe.

But it is precisely the actions of Washington, London and Paris, which the Treaty of Versailles laid down the reasons for the outbreak of World War II.

Quote: Mathafaka

Roosevelt went out of his way to help the Soviet Union at 41.

Roosevelt in 1941 was not up to the USSR, he had Japan at hand, according to the actions of which it was not clear who she would attack, either opening the second front to the USSR, or the United States - drawing them into a world war.

[Pavel57]

America did not want war, but it provoked Japan to start the war with oil sanctions from Indonesia.

[Mathafaka]

Germany unleashed the war. And the German society itself.
Ordinary Germans did not consider themselves losers after the First World War. Germany was driven into humiliating restrictions on the fleet, on the army, forced to pay reparations, to give part of the disputed lands to the French.
As a result of this, the idea of ​​revanchism ripened in German society, the Germans believed that they had been deceived and that there was no defeat in World War 1, hence Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Mathafaka

hence Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way

If the stars light up. then someone needs this.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: pmkemcity

Quote: Mathafaka

hence Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way

If the stars light up. then someone needs this.

And they do not loosely unfasten on kerosene, without it, a star cannot be ignited, alas.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Mavrikiy

And they do not loosely unfasten on kerosene, without it, a star cannot be ignited, alas.

Immediately few people unfasten. They launch into space mainly on credit. Who the future has arrived, and someone is laying the soul.

[Vladivostok1969]

[quoteIn July 1933, Adolf Hitler and his associates in the NSDAP finally captured Germany. This was preceded by struggle and intrigue, culminating in the burning of the Reichstag on February 27, 1933. After this event, Hitler received the post of Reich Chancellor, dissolved the government and announced new elections, which the NSDAP already won unconditionally. Subsequently, all other parties were banned, and the Nazis completely and completely received Germany.] [/ Quote]
Here he is Hitler’s democratic parish.

[Octopus]

Quote: Mathafaka

Hitler, who came to power in a democratic way.

Hitler not came to power in a democratic way. He was appointed chancellor of Hindeburg and his gull. Young, energetic, that’s all.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Mathafaka

Germany unleashed the war.

Precisely and won it! For, after 50 years, the USSR was gone, England was on the sidelines of history, and Germany was the captain of the EU. Clinic around the corner.

[Alexey RA]

So Marshal Foch immediately after signing the Treaty of Versailles accurately predicted - how it all ends:

This is not peace, this is a truce for 20 years!

True, Foch believed that the reason for the new war would be that after the surrender in WWI, Germany was not finally finished off - the terms of the Treaty of Versailles were "betrayal" for him.

[Ryaruav]

as the west is falling on us so the author decided to go the same way

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Ryaruav

the author decided to go the same way

Do you know a different way? Announce!

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Ryaruav

as the west is falling on us so the author decided to go the same way

Well no. The author simply told the truth, which was hidden from us for political reasons and politically correct understanding.

[Dimy4]

The states received their "main prize" without a war, with the help of a handful of traitors. And traitors were executed at all times and in all countries, ours live happily ever after, there is also enough audacity to give advice, the current authorities do not apply severe punishment to them, they do not declare them wanted (the courts have nothing to do with absolutely, they have nothing to do with us) Under the guise of incomprehensible muttering about peaces and friendships, exposed foreign intelligence officers, at the first click, are sent to their native land almost with an honorary escort. So the simple question is for whom do such authorities work? Or do they have their own master?

[Mestny]

Quote: Dimy4

So the simple question is, for whom do such authorities work? Or do they have their own master?

"Who's talking about what, but lousy about the bath."

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

In short - bullshit. And if a little more extensively, then Roosevelt "hated" the USSR so much that he considered it possible to leave the post-war old Europe under his influence. That is, there was no NATO in his plans. But, disgusting, he died at the wrong time ...

[Octopus]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Roosevelt "hated" the USSR so much that he thought it possible to leave the post-war old Europe under his influence

)))
If the current defenders of the Great Victory from the libels of the East Europeans were less under the bastard, this would be of great help to them. It is quite difficult to yap at Stalin, who used this Eastern Europe, and at the same time lick the Allies, who sent this very Eastern Europe to Comrade. Stalin in the sauna, just like that, according to the old military friendship.

For the time being, the same Czech activists cannot afford to ask not "Why do we have a monument to Konev?", But "Why do we not have a monument to Patton?"

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Octopus

Stalin, who used this Eastern Europe, and at the same time lick the Allies, who sent this very Eastern Europe to Comrade Stalin in the sauna, just like that, according to the old military friendship

Joseph Vissarionovich "this Eastern Europe" is not in a "sauna", in a bathhouse, washed from the ram, steamed and put in a clean bed to sleep. But your "Soyuznichki" not only into the sauna, into the gateway this Europe was dragged with the promise of "chewing gum", and they got it off without paying and turning the purse inside out.

[Octopus]

Quote: pmkemcity

started a bathhouse, laundered from a ram, steamed and put to bed on a clean bed

Found in the trash, washed, cleaned of cleanings, and they draw bills for the occupation to us.

Quote: pmkemcity

fucked up without having paid and turned the purse inside out.

Yes Yes. On the example of two germanium, this is very clearly visible.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Octopus

Yes Yes. On the example of two germanium, this is very clearly visible.

Do not jerk. Just look at one Germany. I will not speak about the Bulgarians, Yugoslavs, and other dishonesty.

[Octopus]

Quote: pmkemcity

Just look at one Germany

What is wrong with her?

Quote: pmkemcity

Bulgarians, Yugoslavs and other dishonesty I will not speak.

Why not talk? Here, Italy is bending on one side, and Albania is flourishing on the other side, liberated by the Communists from the Italian, I recall, occupation.

[pmkemcity]

Why not talk? Here, Italy is bending on one side, and Albania is flourishing on the other side, liberated by the Communists from the Italian, I recall, occupation.

Let's talk. Here they are, carriers of democracy:
Pillars - this is what the locals called the unbridled robbers. As from a voracious locust, the population hides from them their last property and belongings. Robbing thieves is becoming increasingly difficult. Captured Italian soldier Carlo Dolsordo recounts:

- When we were sent to scout, it was hellishly cold. In addition, we did not eat anything for three days. In the village where we stood, we were treated with contempt. The German officer called us cowardly pasta. I dared to say that we are hungry.

“Get your own bread,” our commander answered.

- And how to get it? Peasants hide bread, chickens and piglets from us. They look at us like thieves from a high road.

Carlo Dolsordo eagerly reaches out with swollen hands for a piece of the offered bread, but does not have time to take it. He is ahead of the soldier of Lombardi Goshparo.

Under curious circumstances, the junior lieutenant of the 20th battalion Pruzon Tranquilo was captured. With several of his friends, the same looters as he, Tranquilo went to the village "to have some fun", and at the same time to get presents for his beloved. But in the village the horde of Germans already hosted. Between the "allies" a brawl ensued. The Germans opened fire and killed one musketeer. Pruzon Tranquilo, without salty slurping, rushed to the bottom, got lost and fell into the hands of Soviet intelligence.

Pruzon is annoyed. Thugs - "allies" hurt his pride:

“Scoundrels,” he says indignantly at the Germans, “they want to take advantage of all the good alone ...”

This is the philosophy of the robbers. That is their moral character.

However, maybe you so imagined the Italians:




[/ Center]

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

In short - bullshit. And if a little more extensively, then Roosevelt "hated" the USSR so much that he considered it possible to leave the post-war old Europe under his influence. That is, there was no NATO in his plans. But, disgusting, he died at the wrong time ...

Really, raving fellow countryman? Where is the USA and where is Roosevelt? He thought about the benefits of the United States and perhaps planned something more profitable for the United States.
And he could give Europe to the USSR (delirium of course), he could plan, but not out of great love, only if there was a benefit. Which one? For example, we are stuck in Europe, and Asia with China, this is the sphere of interests of the United States.
So to say: Having said A, speak B, otherwise you will be a liar.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Mauritius, well, honestly, I would go to learn history, huh :)))
Well, where does love, big or small? Roosevelt planned a world in which the two superpowers would be in a state of cooperation, not confrontation. To do this, in the post-war arrangement he envisioned, he tried to minimize the geopolitical contradictions between the USSR and the United States. And in this he took a completely unprecedented decision, suggesting that Europe would enter the sphere of interests of the USSR, in return for which the United States would receive priority in Asia. This is an excellent solution for both the USSR and the USA, because the USSR still does not have vital interests in Asia. And such a distribution of spheres of influence could really save the world from the Cold War, minimizing Soviet-American contradictions. That's what's important. And not your childish "did not give it free of charge? So the enemy for life"

[Baloo]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Mauritius, well, honestly, I would go to teach history, huh?

For this, were all these plans of bombing and war against the USSR being developed, which could have begun already in 1945? You yourself would go to the library with your globe.

[Octopus]

The Americans did not have such ideas in 1945. The very idea that friendship with the USSR somehow did not develop did not visit the Eisenhower General Staff only at the end of the 45th year, the Iranian crisis.

It was a monstrous mistake, of course.

[Baloo]

Quote: Octopus

The Americans did not have such ideas in 1945. The very idea that friendship with the USSR somehow did not develop did not visit the Eisenhower General Staff only at the end of the 45th year, the Iranian crisis.

It was a monstrous mistake, of course.

as well as armed coups in more than 90 countries after the Second World War, in which more people died in more than the first two?

[Octopus]

Quote: Balu

armed coups in more than 90 countries after the Second World War, in which more people died in more than the first two?

By the ease in numbers, the hand of Soviet peace activists is incredible.

You are right, there were enough coups. The most monstrous are Mao and Pol Pot.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Baloo, consider the story, not fantasize about it. Then you will find out that all the bombing plans were already done under Truman.

[Mavrikiy]

Andrew Well, honestly, would you go to learn history, but? Can you stop raving and write nonsense from the Amerov table with bows.
1. Roosevelt was planning a world in which two superpowers would be in a state of cooperation USA fed the USSR to him cooperate? I repeat why they need it and what they wanted to fuck from us?
2. agree that Europe will fall into the sphere of interests of the USSR, in return for which the United States would receive priority in Asia. This is an excellent solution for both the USSR and the USA, because the USSR still has no vital interests in Asia. An excellent solution for whom? The Soviet Union to restore all of Europe, and the United States to give China today, and tomorrow Siberia?
3. And such a distribution of spheres of influence could really save the world from the Cold War, Here it is. The United States would have mobilized and armed the Chinese and thrown into Siberia before the 50's.
4. So the enemy for life"No, you personally, friend. For a fool does not need a knife, you will lie to him in three boxes and do whatever you like with it. They promised Europe how to get by, here is a grabber ....... why do we need it.
If it is so needed, be patient, Russia - the third Rome seems to be implemented.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Mauritius, such nonsense only indicates that you only heard about history from Samsonov. You DO NOT know anything about the history of those years. You managed to make a mistake literally in every sentence.
Not for you, but for those who read this correspondence - I will answer in detail, but later, it is difficult to print large texts from a smartphone.
But I'm afraid nothing will help you

[Mavrikiy]

So am I about that. Our new Shpakovsky, we are looking forward to the pearl from you. As he wrote about knights and tanks, he was a lamp, due to illustrations. And how he took to sculpt the history of the USSR, vonism went. So you, while the fleet wrote-was in the subject, but for the USSR it seems ....... secret knowledge flooded.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Mavrikiy

but for the USSR it seems ....... secret knowledge flooded

Well, they’re secret only from you :))))

Quote: Mavrikiy

The USA fed the USSR to cooperate with him? I repeat why they need it and what they wanted to fuck from us?

The USA did not "feed" the USSR. And even close. Before WWII, we had more or less normal trade relations with them (before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), which were aggravated by the terrible fear of the Americans that their military technologies would not float away to the Japanese. Therefore, they built factories for us, and sold the machines as much as they wanted, but military cooperation did not come from the word "absolutely". Before the war, the United States did not particularly single out the USSR in any way, then (surprise!) Isolationist sentiments reigned in them, fueled by problems in the economy, and the USSR was only interested in the USSR as a buyer of certain groups of goods.
So they didn’t feed anyone, and they didn’t want anything from us.

Quote: Mavrikiy

An excellent solution for whom? The Soviet Union to restore all of Europe, and the United States to give China today, and tomorrow Siberia?

Mauritius, first, learn to distinguish between political and economic influence. Roosevelt was not going to support the political independence of Europe, he considered it possible to agree with Stalin's decisive voice on political issues. But at the same time, he, of course, did not refuse to participate in the development of the European economy. That is, no "restoration at the expense of the USSR" - Europe would live for itself as a conglomerate of militarily weak countries and would be afraid to sneeze without Vissarionych's permission, and America would trade with the Europeans, and maybe even implement a program of assistance to individual countries, because ... it is ultimately a very profitable investment.
Secondly, Roosevelt had no intention of getting his hands on China - it's a shame not to know! He saw the world of the future, consisting of 4 "watchers" - the USA, England, the USSR and China, in which only the USA and the USSR would be superpowers. That is, he did not intend to somehow vassalize China, but, of course, he would not tolerate the anti-American Chinese policy in Asia. And he recognized the same right for Stalin in relation to England.
But what you never understand, Mauritius, is that our Siberia did not fall sideways to Roosevelt. He didn’t need our country :))))) He needed something completely different.

Quote: Mavrikiy

Here it is. fool The US would have mobilized and armed the Chinese and thrown into Siberia before the 50s.

Firstly, this is an enchanting delirium of the inflamed mind, if only because it was just technically impossible. China had already fought with Japan before, and did not achieve much success even against the relatively small and frankly poorly trained Japanese imperial army, and at that time it was very friendly to the USSR. Only a complete schizophrenic could count on him as a military force capable of coping, or at least delivering noticeable troubles to the USSR, and Roosevelt was not close at all. But most importantly, Roosevelt did NOT NEED a confrontation with the USSR. If it were needed, then he would have sought to get capable allies, that is, he would have consolidated Europe into NATO. However, I understand, Mauritius, that when bloodthirsty Americans are sitting in a closet and under a bed, it is impossible to realize the simple fact of a period in history when the United States did not at all seek a confrontation with the USSR, and I do not expect this from you.
Roosevelt was actually very wise. He did not distinguish the USSR before WWII from a number of other countries, but when during the Second World War it became clear that the USSR was becoming a superpower, he faced the need to determine US policy and position in a new, changing world. And his choice was to avoid military confrontation. He planned everything in such a way as to respect the political interests of the USSR and to allow us to develop quietly, because that was exactly what was most beneficial for the United States - not to wage another hot or cold war, but, by delimiting the political spheres of influence, to enable the development of our own economy, at the service which would be Asian markets, and, in general, European ones too.
In other words, Roosevelt chose peace, not war, and economic competition instead of military. And, in fact, all of this could well work if he lived even a little longer. Humanity really could have stepped into the golden age ... Alas, the great man left, and Pygmy Truman sat in his place, experiencing furious distrust and hostility towards the USSR. And instead of dividing the spheres of influence, the Cold War began.

[Mavrikiy]

The great Roosevelt, did not inspire "mankind's golden dream." Amen.
The design is crazy. An economy without politics does not exist.

In the United States, isolationist sentiment reigned, fueled by problems in the economy. it is an enchanting delirium of the inflamed mind, if only because it was simply technically impossible.

Separate flies from cutlets. Close their markets is always economically developed countries are ready, as well as climb into strangers. And here isolationism does not smell. It was the crisis of the 30s that forced the USA and Europe

give us peace of mind

our golden dream. Ours, but not them !!! And who says that they dreamed about it and wanted to give it to us, that liberal, Andryusha.
Chinese hordes in Siberia, I went too far, but the options, the Hunguses quite frolic in our 20s.
I repeat, for especially gifted historians and economists:

America could not close. fool America needed markets to get out of the crisis, and England closed Canada, Australia, 25% of the world’s market.

Hence the war! Do not be dumb!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Mavrikiy

An economy without politics does not exist.

That's it :))) And Roosevelt’s design was extremely economical - with his agreement, he opened up Asian markets for himself, without refusing European ones, since the post-war USSR could not carry out economic expansion.

Quote: Mavrikiy

Close their markets is always economically developed countries are ready, as well as climb into strangers. And here isolationism does not smell. It was the crisis of the 30s that forced the USA and Europe

Mauritius, study at your leisure the causes of the crisis in the USA of the 30s. I predict - it was a crisis of overproduction, that is, the United States produced more than they could consume. What is isolationism here? The isolationism of the USA of the 30s was POLITICAL, since they did not want to meddle in European affairs and did not need to have a say in them.

Quote: Mavrikiy

And who says that they dreamed about it and wanted to give it to us, that liberal, Andryusha.

Mauritius, it makes no difference to me who you consider me to be. For one simple reason, you haven’t yet grown up to count me.
But the FDR really did just that.

Quote: Mavrikiy

I repeat, for especially gifted historians and economists:

You do not jump from the question - we are talking about a post-war device according to Roosevelt's vision.

Quote: Mavrikiy

America could not close. fool America needed markets to get out of the crisis, and England closed Canada, Australia, 25% of the world’s market.

Do not fuck bullshit, it hurts. Australia and Canada in terms of purchasing power are completely insignificant against the background of European markets

[Octopus]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

In other words, Roosevelt chose peace, not war, and economic competition instead of military. And, in fact, all of this could well work if he lived even a little longer. Humanity really could have stepped into the golden age ... Alas, the great man left, and Pygmy Truman sat in his place, experiencing furious distrust and hostility towards the USSR. And instead of dividing the spheres of influence, the Cold War began.

)))
You are broadcasting a bit of schizophrenic late-Soviet propaganda. In this particular case, the bad American imperialists turned out to be good + bad Stalin (this is hard to believe, but in Brezhnev’s times, Stalin was considered so, peculiar, in general, let's not) turned out to be good in this particular case. Propaganda - it is always so eclectic.

But there is another view on these events.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Before WWII, we had more or less normal trade relations with them (before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)

You're lying. The moral embargo was introduced on 02.12.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX. And for the cause. For war crimes, Molotov’s breadbasket.
Naturally, this has nothing to do with US geopolitical interestswhat other geopolitics is there in the USA in Finland. PR measure, President of the United States for a high moral war. Naturally, this statement was nothing but pouting.

At 1940 In the US State Department, Soviet-American negotiations on trade and economic issues began. At the talks, the Soviet side raised the question of eliminating discriminatory measures by the US government, in particular about the obstacles that the US authorities posed in providing tonnage for Soviet cargo, in admission of Soviet engineers to aircraft factories etc.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Therefore, they built plants for us, and they sold machines as much as they like,

Suddenly, capitalism encourages economic development, including industrialization, wherever it reaches. At least in the Reich, at least in the USSR. The notorious Chinese children, collecting an iPhone for Greta Gunberg with their fingers stained with blood, from whom the capitalists stole childhood, could tell the latter about this property of capitalism, but once.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Roosevelt had no intention of getting his hands on China - it's a shame not to know! He saw the world of the future, consisting of 4 "watching" - the USA, England, the USSR and China, in which only the USA and the USSR would be superpowers

Yes. Unfortunately, his fantasies had absolutely nothing to do with reality, and existed only in his sore head and in reports from the State Department licking.

Because

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Roosevelt was actually very wise.

Roosevelt - American Putin. What he did well — he held on to power, climbed into the economy (crushed food with bulldozers, yes), destroyed political institutions by assigning geeks to them. The Roosevelt judge of the U.S. Supreme Court, Jackson, together with the executioner Rudenko, a member of the Donetsk special troika, is participating in the economic development of Germany from the 23rd to the 39th year, delivered from Dachau.

He did the rest through the ass. The top of his activity was, of course, the desire to make mankind happy. Without the three hundred-year-old British intelligence services, without at least some sane foreign policy bloc, even without a sane general staff. The isolationism you mentioned is, first of all, the absence of any understanding of what is happening abroad.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

he faced the need to determine US policy and position in a new, changing world

This was a monstrous tragedy. That such a country (good, but absolutely self-contained) with such leaders determined the future of the world. And I determined.

Second Versailles.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And, in fact, all of this could well work if he lived even a little longer. Humanity could indeed step into the golden age.

Fortunately, at least something after Roosevelt was able to be fixed.

2/2 of the XX century has become a time of prosperity for countries in which:
1. Roosevelt's insanity in spheres of influence was able to be rolled back. NATO, the Marshall Plan.
2. Roosevelt's frenzy with decolonization was ignored. Canada, Australia.
3. Roosevelt's frenzy with the idea of ​​the peaceful coexistence of the two systems was offset by building a patriotic dictatorship. From the relatively mild one-party Japan, where the liberal democratic party depressed the Reds and sat in government for 50 years, through the military dictatorship in South Korea and Taiwan, to full-fledged personalistic fascism by Lee Kuan Yu.

All other 4/5 earthlings received Russian world do-it-yourself hell.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

in his place sat a pygmy Truman, who had frantic distrust and hostility towards the USSR

You are not entirely correct. Truman managed at least not to aggravate the US slide into dictatorship and state capitalism. However, in the foreign policy aspect, he really was a pygmy. Farmer from Missouri, what to expect from him. His "Truman Doctrine" is a humiliated capitulatory push.

In the recent past, totalitarian regimes were imposed on the peoples of a number of countries of the world. The United States government often protested coercion and intimidation, in violation of the Yalta Agreement, which took place in Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria. I must also say that similar events developed in a number of other countries.
...
We must take immediate and decisive action.

Therefore, I ask Congress to approve appropriations for aid to Greece and Turkey in the amount of $ 400 million for the period ending June 3, 1948.

To put it bluntly - the USSR has no place on earth - only Ronald Reagan could.

I believe we shall rise to the challenge. I believe that communism is another sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages even now are being written. I believe this because the source of our strength in the quest for human freedom is not material, but spiritual. And because it knows no limitation, it must terrify and ultimately triumph over those who would enslave their fellow man. For in the words of Isaiah: "He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might He increased strength But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary. "

After 8 years, the USSR was gone.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

A very funny alternative-conceptual concept. Due to the fact that I am lying with 39,6, it is difficult for me to answer in a detailed manner, but if you wait another day, I will certainly do it

[Octopus]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Very funny alternative conceptual concept.

)))
Oh well. It seemed to me personally that the alternative is something that did not exist (the "golden age"), and that the stated is a harsh reality. But perhaps I am not very good at AI. Recover

[Octopus]

About the lost message.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

However, the discussion on this can be stopped - until better times

)))
How to say.
Our dispute over Keynesianism in general and its implementation by the FDR in particular (see the Truman committee) is indeed quite a special one. However, if you have free time and epistolary inspiration, you could very well consider the Roosevelt effectiveness in detail on more familiar and pleasant material for you. Most likely, such an experience would be interesting not only in the format of comments.

Roosevelt, I recall, during the WWI served as deputy fleet minister, and in the presidential years continued amateurishly interested maritime affairs. Accordingly, we have the right to expect from him the level of not former seminarians, but a strong lover, for example, you (Putin has already been compared with Roosevelt, and you catch me, I'm not greedy ) Minus afterglow, plus a seemingly higher level of available expertise.

What do we see? One Hornet for 5 years (including 4 years of a hybrid war with Japan) we put out of brackets, no one is obliged to be a prophet. Roosevelt's most enchanting proser in terms of building the fleet was, of course, start mass construction frigates PLO in April of the 43rd year. Europe fest, khe-khe, Roundup, khe-khe. The man himself personally dealt with Atlantic communications and German submarines last time.

But small frigates are of little interest to the public, so it is journalistic more profitable to deal with LK.

Here is the LC. Americans since pre-WWII have known the limiting geometric parameters of the LC, the channel gateway. Since the time of the Washington Treaty, they have not in the project, but right in the iron, in the warehouses, 16/50 guns, 14 "belt plates, with a power plant for 200K + hp (the latter is on the Lexington type AV).

And now, after 16 years american administration breaks the growth of VI in London to the level of panamax. Gathered over these 16 years the old South Dakota + Hood, no? But they found out how much, when they went to London in the 38th?

5 (five, Karl!) Battleships laid down after the abolition of 35K under the old restrictions (and what! What kind of air defense was on the Dakota under the project? How did this Dakota and the Massachusetts fight in the 42nd?). Designed by Iowa fart steam, in which the armament happened you yourself know what.

Effective president, you say? Professional navy administrator, you say?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Good day!

Quote: Octopus

Roosevelt’s most enchanting proser in terms of building the fleet was, of course, the beginning of mass construction of PLO frigates in April of the 43rd year.

Well, if you ignore that at the beginning of the war he had 99 "Whiskey" and "Clemson" in the EM or TSC version and dozens of old (but more modern than these) destroyers, that since 1940 the USA had riveted 363 270-330 ton RS -461, from which the PLO cabotage, ports and bases were expected, and that, generally speaking, they began to sculpt their escort EMs in 1942 - not such a global failure.

Quote: Octopus

5 (five, Karl!) Battleships laid down after the cancellation of 35K under the old restrictions

Actually four - the expansion of the terms of the London Treaty was signed on June 30, 1938, "Washington" was laid earlier.
As for the Dakotas ... in comparison with Carol, the project turned out to be more balanced and it must be borne in mind that designing a LC is a long process. At the time of signing the additional agreement on 45 kilotons, the South Dakota project took place, and Congress allocated funds for the construction of 4 such ships. In such conditions, there was no point in postponing the bookmarking - the Dakotas entered service in 1942, but they would have revised the project and re-agreed it in Congress - and in 1943 they would not have entered service.
In general, the US Navy received a lot of not the best battleships and in 1942 they had more modern LK than any other country had. So I don’t see any failure here either. In a war, it is better to have 4 non-ideal LCs in the fleet than 4 ideal LCs on stocks.

[Octopus]

You see, Andrew. Since you have a reputation for being knowledgeable in the history of the fleet, I would expect accurate formulations and would not like to deal with any naive distortions.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Well, if you ignore that at the beginning of the war he had 99 "Whiskey" and "Clemsons" in the EM or TSC version

Ignore. Flash dealers are a naval reserve for the Democratic Party and the government for scrap. I’m asking you not to remember the deal for the destroyers-base.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

riveted 363

2 pieces on December 9th of the 41st.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

which were just waiting for PLO cabotage, ports

1. I seem to be writing about Atlantic communications. Meaning tranceatlantic. 300 tons of VI.
2. Second happy times. Expected yes.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

EM they began to sculpt since 1942

Evarts was received by the fleet on April 5, 1943. And this is the ship of the English order, on which USNavi put a paw.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

not so global failure

Europ festival is canceled. It would have been canceled, with such a land army and aviation, but this does not justify any of the naval forces.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Actually four - the expansion of the terms of the London Treaty was signed on June 30, 1938, "Washington" was laid earlier.

1. For two weeks before.
2. The task of the Democratic Party and the government to knock out 45K from the colonialists and not a ton less was brought by the Yankees to London in March 38th. Actually, they didn’t knock anything out, they simply informed that the ultimate VI is now like this. After three months, they lowered business trips from the US budget for alcohol and dissolute women, while the British and French were discussing a new reality with each other.
3. Battleships of 45K are already in the Vinson act of May 38th, and what the British have not signed yet - let them move.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Compared to Carol, the project turned out to be more balanced

Caroline is just a mediocre decision of mediocre people. With an afterthought, it is obvious that the Americans needed a completely differently balanced ship and they absolutely do not need 16 ".

Aftertaste could well be replaced by good expertise, decisive and competent decisions of big bosses.

But Dakota - wrecking and Trotskyism.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

keep in mind that designing an LC is a lengthy process

You say this as if we were talking about some kind of geological phenomenon. And why, in fact, this LC has not yet been designed since the 34th year, when Japan withdrew from maritime treaties? Can you expand the Panama Canal? Cannons in the warehouse mutate in railguns?

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

would reshape the project, but reconcile it in Congress

You write this as if Comrade Roosevelt is building 5 battleships "Soviet Union" in an open field and in parallel is fighting the pacifist Comrade Attlee in Congress. The real Roosevelt fought off the isolationists (everyone remembers this), who demanded to build more things in order to properly isolate themselves (no one remembers this).

Congress, I remind you again, took and unilaterally unilaterally increased London limits for the United States by 20%, writing the increase in VI battleships for the same paper, again, without any new agreements. These are the first three of Iowa. If the fleet had a ready-made 45K LC project, could it be possible to cough up the issue in the same May 38th? It is difficult to doubt, especially if you find some options for the money.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

In a war, it is better to have 4 non-ideal LCs in the fleet than 4 ideal LCs on stocks.

I don’t know, accidentally or intentionally, you retell the case of the King, for some reason. America is a different country in other circumstances.

[Liam]

Quote: Octopus

have a reputation for being knowledgeable

Thin

[16329]

You just do not need to consider the United States as a single system, look at the modern conflict between the "deep state" and "Trump." This conflict has always been, is and will be, and in principle it is characteristic not only of the United States. It’s just that it looks most vivid there, since US government institutions are traditionally weaker than shadow corporate structures
This explains the convolutions of US policy, cooperation with Germany, and then recognition and assistance in the industrialization of the USSR

[Amateur]

Not otherwise, Poles and Ukrainians accidentally sneezed at Mr. Samsonov and infected him with the coronavirus "kakkhochutakyvorochu"

[Avior]

Honestly, Mr. Samsonov has had this coronovirus in his head for so long that he himself sneezes on anyone

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Yes, and sneezes at us regularly: (((

[pmkemcity]

and loot the main prize - Russia

All the same, for America, China was the main prize, and Russia was the main rival. It was precisely for the enslavement of China that throughout the thirties there was a struggle between the Chinese communists and the Japanese military set on them. Already during the war, America, seeing the impossibility of victory in China, forced England to abandon its colonial system in exchange for help.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: pmkemcity

All the same, for America, the main prize was China, and Russia was the main rival. It was precisely for the enslavement of China that throughout the thirties there was a struggle between the Chinese communists and the Japanese military set on them

Will we include logic, or what did Andrei say is the truth? China in 1930 and 1990 is not an identity.
In 1930, these are "colonial goods" and that's it. What kind of raw materials? What is the consumer market, mandarins in limousines? Europe is consumers, the USSR is raw material, this is the age-old ideal for England and the USA.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Europe consumers, the USSR - raw materials, here is a century-old ideal for England and the USA.

Your logic - the British and Americans "in a hurry" create benefits to meet the "ever-growing needs" of Europeans?
They cannot do anything other than theft. The only desire of America and England was to rob someone. With a poor, and at that time very passionate Russia, there was simply nothing to take, and even these crumbs would have gotten with great difficulty. But China is a potentially huge sales market and inexhaustible hardworking human resources (the words of one American billionaire, which he said to the question "how to make a billion" - every Chinese needs to sell a pen worth $ 1). But Europe is a "rich Buratino" who has 5 sold, which can be easily obtained by hanging the log upside down.

[Jack O'Neill]

"Crusade" of the West against Russia. Who fought against whom in World War II? The official anti-Hitler coalition against Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and militaristic Japan. In real US unleashed this war against the whole worldto achieve world domination.

Oooh ...

World War I unleashed by “Western democracies” - the masters of Paris, London and Washington (Why did the masters of the West unleash the First World War) in order to crush the competitors within the Western project - the German world, destroy the Russian civilization (main prize) and the Ottoman Empire to further enslave the Islamic world.

Austria-Hungary and Germany, no? Well, yes, the Americans are to blame for everything ... Uhhh ...
Although, fantasy is a good thing ...
In short, everything is very bad ...

[Nehist]

In general, the First World really wanted the French. They had revanchist sentiments after the loss of Alsace and Lorraine (Germans had similar sentiments before WWII) By the way, the murdered Frans-Ferdinand was a supporter of friendship with Russia, so RI on the contrary should have been interested in investigating and not blocking the so-called little brothers

[Jack O'Neill]

In general, the First World really wanted the French.

Let's be honest - the PMV wanted everything, everyone scratched their hands, but Germany and Austria-Hungary really started it.

[Nehist]

I agree. But the most ready for it were, oddly enough, France and Britain

[Plantagenet]

"It is not surprising that in 1930 in the United States there were millions of demonstrations under socialist slogans. The police had to use machine guns against the protesters, the government threw troops to disperse the protests."

And you can link to the use of police machine guns against the demonstrators. Not machine guns and pistols, namely machine guns. By the way, I wonder if the US police are armed with machine guns?

[Octopus]

Quote: Plantagenet

You can link to the use of police machine guns against the demonstrators

Well, actually there were funny days when Mr. MacArthur operated tanks on American streets. But this does not suit the author, there was talk about benefits and raising the retirement age for WWII veterans

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Octopus

Well, actually there were funny days when Mr. MacArthur operated tanks on American streets.

And also with infantry with joined bayonets, cavalry with sabers, he + used BOV (adamsite).
In general, a wonderful company dispersed the veterans: MacArthur commanded everything, Ike had an adjutant, and Patton led the tanks into battle. Ike still unsuccessfully tried to persuade the boss to limit contacts with reporters - they say, it’s not a thing for the NHS to promote on the dispersal of its own citizens.

Quote: Octopus

But this does not suit the author, there was talk about benefits and raising the retirement age for WWII veterans

EMNIP, there were not quite privileges there, and bonuses were given to veterans certificates for payments based on the results of PMV, which were to be paid within 20 years. But the depression came - and the veterans demanded their money.

[Octopus]

Quote: Alexey RA

they say that it’s not a thing for the NHS to publicize on the dispersal of its own citizens.

For the field marshal of the Philippine army norms.

Quote: Alexey RA

depression came and the veterans demanded their money.

Money from a book in a savings bank.

Quote: Alexey RA

tanks led Patton into battle

Well, at least one American general managed to train the tanks in advance. This was then clearly visible.

Nonetheless. According to official data, the stranglers of freedom shot 2 (two) protesters, two more accidental victims. So-so bloody Sunday Tuesday.

[Monster_Fat]

Well .... let's just say the mechanism of the outbreak of wars is not as simple as the author wants to show. Often it is not “economic interest” that leads to them, but banal intransigence, fear of “losing face”, “just a human factor” and “accident”. For example, in fact, it was the Sarajevo shot that led to the First World War, which was perceived in Austria-Hungary as a slap in the face of the empire from some "subhuman" plebeians. And, further, it went off, according to the old Russian proverb (by the way, well characterizing the reasons for the emergence of wars): "Word for word, fist on the table, and then for the knife." That it is far from "economic causes" that cause armed conflict is well illustrated in the excellent European miniseries "1864".

[g1washntwn]

Quote: Monster_Fat

in fact, it was the Sarajevo shot that led to the first world war

The casus belli is just a formal occasion. The true reason is born in the Senate (if we talk about Roman law). The same is in this case. The reason for the outbreak of war was not the murder of the Archduke, but attempts to bite the South Slavic territories from Austria-Hungary. It’s just that the ultimatum for casus belli does not arise from random events, it is casus belli that use random (or as we can verify historically - and staged too) events.

[Lamata]

Let's just say that we also did not have a satisfying life, and the famine of 1930-31 was present and not only in Ukraine. My grandfather, out of 9 family members, survived by 1932.

[Krasnodar]

No, well, I can do that too ...
The landing in Normandy was a blow to the international Russian superethros, who carried the red banner of justice to the European masses oppressed by the capitalists. For the sake of this fiend, chistogan and profit printed enough dollars doomed to collapse and, having built on these unsecured pieces of paper a fleet capable of halting the English Channel with sin and half, hit the German troops, which consisted of 12-year-old and 73-year-old Volkssturm soldiers. Quickly overcoming the resistance of the pioneers and retirees of the Reich, almost losing New York during the counterattack of the Wehrmacht's disabled people in the Ardennes, the Anglo-Saxon capitalists rushed across the Red Army, preventing the Russian civilization from conveying the ideals of justice to the peoples of France, Belgium and Luxembourg living under oppression of capital.

[Free wind]

Roosevelt shows on the map a place where there is nothing at all. The map is somehow interesting. Canada and Alaska are huge, the mainland of the United States is small at all. And in Stalin, Roosevelt respected very much, in fact, Roosevelt was called a secret communist in America, he carried out a number of reforms leading the country out of the crisis, increased taxes on excess incomes, levied taxes on the poor, limited the oligarchy, etc. Perhaps he forced Churchill (an outspoken anti-communist and Russophobe) to provide assistance to the USSR.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Free Wind

The map is somehow interesting.

The answer is simple. You are used to our map, where our country is "in the middle". And, in the photo there is an American map, where their country is in the middle.

Quote: Krasnodar

No, well, I can do that too ...

“I don’t believe!” Realism is lacking. Where are the Jews?
"Strong" article, it is, of course!

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Free Wind

Perhaps he forced Churchill (an outspoken anti-communist and Russophobe) to provide assistance to the USSR.

I didn’t. June 22, 1941, learning about the German attack on the USSR, he told others: "We will win the war." I don’t remember the exact phrase, I quote from memory.

[Octopus]

Quote: Krasnodar

I don’t remember the exact phrase, I quote from memory

Memory fails. Churchill did write this, but not on June 22, but on December 8.

[Krasnodar]

No, the memoirs of colleagues are about words.

[Octopus]

Quote: Krasnodar

memories of associates precisely about words.

What does the associates. Churchill wrote a lot himself, you can take and read. In June, he writes that the Soviet comrades finally got the stars, about which they had been warned for at least a year. But in December, yes, not entirely justified euphoria.

[Krasnodar]

Read Beaver and Hastings)).

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Krasnodar

I didn’t. June 22, 1941, learning about the German attack on the USSR, he told others: "We will win the war." I don’t remember the exact phrase, I quote from memory.

Then, too, from memory: Until June 22, a drunken Churchill called Stalin in the evenings: "When will we declare war?"

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Free Wind

Roosevelt shows on the map a place where there is nothing at all.

And for me, this is how Roosevelt shows on the map the direction of the Pacific Fleet's offensive on Japan - frog jumps from the atoll to the atoll.
It was the fleet, because the army in the person of the eccentric MacArthur had its own plan and its own direction.

[smaug78]

Everything is clear in the title - conspiracy theological nonsense from the ignoramus Samsonov

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: smaug78

Everything is clear in the title - conspiracy theological nonsense from the ignoramus Samsonov

Boriska, did you go to school? Did you graduate from a history tower? Hitler thesis sculpted? So you trynd? Ukrainian KGEshnik, go to the hut.

[smaug78]

Dvoechnik, Osil first, at least: E. A. Ivanyan. US history for universities. Then you will cheek and people laugh

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: smaug78

Dvoechnik, Osil first, at least: E. A. Ivanyan. US history for universities. Then you will cheek and people laugh

No, if Ivanyan himself taught how to write "conspiracy nonsense", then of course ... An excellent student with a diploma doused with ketchup.

[Mavrikiy]

Wow Ivanyana mastered and did not forget how to read, well then at Harvard. You can look at Spitsin’s pictures, inquisitive. Textbook for high schools.

[smaug78]

Funny, but a textbook for high schools. But this is not available to you, you learn from the inscriptions on the fence. Come on, keep laughing further while you're funny

[g1washntwn]

Money gave new opportunities for the exploitation and appropriation of alien real resources. Former colonies and those who did not want to integrate into this system should have received their portion of cuffs. The non-military method and the revolutionary pill for the Russian Empire suddenly grew over the years into an independent ideology that began to threaten this new system of exploitation. All other movements in the West were aimed only at destroying this new and threatening ideology. The fact that the British and Americans openly supported Hitler's desire to eradicate communism is not even hidden. And after the defeat of the Nazis, the United States picked up this banner and carry it to this day. Despite all the clumsy efforts of the liberals, the final taming of Russia is out of the question. That's all the pies. The Third World War began immediately after WWII and continues to this day, just different methods and methods. A peaceful redistribution of property may not happen, everything and everything burns out, the Earth is one, from the window of this house you can only jump out into the abyss.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: g1washntwn

The fact that the British and Americans openly supported Hitler's aspirations to eradicate communism is not even hidden.

Mistake This drapes the true relationship between them and the causes of WWII.

[pmkemcity]

Where did so many "anti-Soviet" people come from? It's night in America, in Israel and Europe they just woke up ... Is it really "vigil"? So don't "watch" ...

[Krasnodar]

Do not tell me the word "Israel." Israel divided the wall of genocide of Palestinian youths from their asses, Zaynab Abu-Tyz from Mahmoud Barabas .., the hot guy silently clenches his fists, hearing the dreary Eeyore through the wall ... Bitter girlish tears flow down Zaynab's mustache, remembering Barabas ... Never remember I have the word "Israel"!

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: pmkemcity

Where did so many "anti-Soviet" people come from? It's night in America, in Israel and Europe they just woke up ... Is it really "vigil"? So don't "watch" ...

Precisely noticed. The company is coming. People need to be plunged into negativity and hopelessness. Salvage came from abroad or the new ministers came to life: how long to endure!

[Arthur 85]

Are they also a chapel?

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Arthur 85

Are they also a chapel?

[Mavrikiy]

Washington needs to weaken the British Empire

To be precise, dismantle the empire.

[Maks1995]

Interestingly, if we suddenly make friends with the United States and quarrel with China, will the media immediately accuse China of unleashing World War 2?

[Santa Fe]

No, China has never done harm to anyone, has not waged wars of conquest in its recent history. It is obvious

Our neighbor and partner, culturally and spiritually close, stably supporting all the initiatives of Russia at UN meetings.

A partner who has established mutually beneficial cooperation, contracts for billions of rubles and RMB (“Power of Siberia” - 55 billion!)

[Kolin]

And along the road, reptilians with braids are standing! And silence!

[Constanty]

I would not go so far in conclusions as the author of this article, but there is no doubt that the US administration F. Roosevelt was striving for war. Unlike most Americans, by the way.

In addition to forcing Japan to war, such harsh fuel sanctions were introduced. For a country devoid of its own sources at that time.

Another interesting question. The title photo shows the new generation North Carolina liner. North Carolina (BB-55) and Washington (BB-56) were already in service, and Pearl Harbor had
only old ships. No new battleships and aircraft carriers - a coincidence? I do not think so.

[Octopus]

Quote: Constanty

only old ships. No new battleships and aircraft carriers - a coincidence? I do not think so

What place do you think?

LC launched in the spring of the 41st, undergoing combat training. This is not Mikhalkov’s film, so that a shovel from a shovel is given out and cheers, on the attack. The new LCs and after a year are buggy (and the officers are cranky) are not childish. Take a look at the famous night fight of South Dakota and Washington with Kirishima.

Quote: Constanty

No new battleships and aircraft carriers - a coincidence? I do not think so.

Of course not. The fact that the new LC, and AB, and KR, and submarines, and frigates PLO not built - this is no coincidence. This is the management class of the socialist Roosevelt.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Octopus

The new LCs and after a year are buggy (and the officers are cranky) are not childish. Take a look at the famous night fight of South Dakota and Washington with Kirishima.

There was also a marvelous case in Casablanca with another Sodak - Massachusetts: in the very first battle, the battleship was de-energized from concussions during volleys of its own main battery.
Trend, adnakka ...

[Undecim]

Even in the times of the most brutal political and military confrontations, when the world was literally teetering on the brink of nuclear war, even then the USSR did not stoop to print the kind of delirium that the author spews out. Although the cartoonists did not hesitate to portray the United States in this form, but under each caricature there was a specific event or action, and not a stream of fantasies extracted from the finger. Lying for propaganda has always been considered the lot of the "imperialist rotary machine acrobats."

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Undecim

Even during the most brutal political and military confrontations, when the world was literally balancing on the brink of nuclear war, even then in the USSR they did not go down to printing such delirium that the author erupts.

Did you see the Soviet press? The author did not reveal anything new, he only recalled:
“During the years of successful robberies of other countries and peoples,” Joseph Vissarionovich began his speech to party deputies in 1952, “the bourgeoisie of the West still allowed itself to be liberal.”

“She defended liberal democratic freedoms and thereby created popularity among the people. Now (when there was already no one to rob, and one can’t live at someone else’s expense) there is no trace of liberalism ... There is no longer the so-called “freedom” of an individual, and human right is recognized only for those who have (the largest) financial capital. All other sections of citizens are considered “raw human material” suitable only for exploitation and nothing more.

(During the looting and heyday of the countries of capitalism) the principle of equality of nations and peoples was also trampled. Now (it is replaced by the principle of force) - the full rights of the exploiting minority over the lack of rights of the vast majority of the exploited.

(When difficulties first arose) the banner of bourgeois-democratic freedoms was thrown overboard. "
“Now, the bourgeoisie sells the rights of independent nations for American dollars, and all the principles of freedom and even the screen of equality are completely thrown overboard ...”
“They say that capital can live differently, that ruining the weak is the fault of leaders, that this is not a sentence of the system. This is not true. Average profit - there is a lower margin of profitability, and below it, capitalist production becomes impossible. In other words, it is ridiculous to think that the bigwigs of modern monopoly capital, capturing countries and turning them into colonies, enslaving peoples and starting wars, will try to provide themselves with only average profit. No, it’s not average profit, and not superprofit, but maximum profit, which is almost reckoned with almost nothing, and is the basis of Western capitalism. And the need to maximize profits pushes him to various risky steps.

The systematic robbery of colonies and other backward countries, the transformation of independent countries into dependent ones, the organization of wars, instability and hostility, at the first sign of difficulties, will again turn out to be uncontested for these tycoons. Capitalism does not know how to live otherwise than pursuing to maximize the benefits, and therefore the attempts to gain world economic domination continue, and anyone who threatens it will be under attack ... "
But as soon as Russia rose from its knees again, once again, as a phoenix bird (regularly in its history) flared up again with development activities, the USA, Britain and, in general, the collective Western world instantly dropped their arrogant masks. Using the dirtiest methods - they showed the true face.

[Undecim]

Did you see the Soviet press?
And they saw the Soviet press, and the history of the CPSU, and the diamat with istmatism, and scientific communism, everyone saw. And Stalin's speech at the XIX Congress of the CPSU on October 14, 1952, too.
Therefore, you don’t need to drag an owl to the globe, because Stalin’s speech, by definition, could not contain such a stupid redrawing of history as Samsonov does. Stalin reveals to deputies the essence of the world bourgeoisie and its policy, and does not engage in historical fakemetry.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Undecim

Stalin reveals to deputies the essence of the world bourgeoisie and its policy, and does not engage in historical fakemetry.

Well, so I say that the Soviet press did not engage in "fake trading", because for its image in the West was much more important than the internal effect. Lies did not require excuses, and the truth could only be slandered. Soviet people were much more politicized than the average man in the West and perceived the burnt Vietnamese children as their own.

So much for istmath and scientific communism. Watch and do not forget!

[Vasily Ponomarev]

https://antisovetsky.livejournal.com/83477.html

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Vasily Ponomarev

https://antisovetsky.livejournal.com/83477.html

From there:
All cases are taken from just one book on the "memoirs" of one person, even whose participation in those hostilities is doubtful.
And now, even if you collect the entire SA from those who survived, they get tired of laundering, because there are few documentary facts, you can drive any rubbish in tons. And sign photos as you like. And the dead cannot even stand up for themselves on the Internet, it’s very convenient to kick them.
Next - Friends, read books more, so that I’ll kill everyone ... ki like the one who posted this crap could not fool you.
And further
Alexey Kulikov

April 14, 2019 at 06:42:44 UTC Collapse
After the words "the sergeant took off his overcoat," he stopped reading. author, where did you see people wearing an overcoat on a combat mission? You try to climb the mountains in an overcoat, then write. Feycomet. I wonder how much dough they sent you for this feces?
REPLY
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feliksdze

April 14, 2019 10:51:08 UTC
The author voluptuously namanyachil ..... Especially successful were the memories of the tank with the rags of the intestines on the tracks and the sergeant-hero and inspirer of the general wear and tear of the village !!!
Itself, apparently, also passed all the hot spots? Give personal memories of blood-grenades in the ass .....
REPLY
LIKE

feliksdze

April 14, 2019 10:55:52 UTC
What is the calculation? Like "he himself"? So NOT THIS!

[Undecim]

You, in my opinion, hear and see only yourself. What are you trying to prove to me in your aplomb? What delirium Samsonova caused by the burning of Vietnamese children?
Or the fact that in order to achieve an "internal effect" in propaganda it is possible to use such a primitive alteration?

[Octopus]

Quote: Undecim

Lying for propaganda purposes has always been considered the lot of "imperialist acrobats of rotary machines."

)))
Of course not. But they worked more solidly, I must say.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

I can not agree

[Operator]

One can argue about why the WWII was unleashed - the British, Germans and Japanese also had their own reasons to stimulate its beginning.

But there is a historical fact - the United States overcame a ten-year economic crisis not at all thanks to Roosevelt’s policy (consisting of small events such as public works for the unemployed and the construction of one hydroelectric power station), but due to the increase in taxes and government spending on weapons since 1939.

So WWII literally pulled the US economy out of stagnation. America's global dominance over other countries with a ruined economy following the war is more a bonus than a plan.

[g1washntwn]

If a gentleman says "A" it means that he intends to make a speech for 15 minutes. The Anglo-Saxons always play long, short-term plans - just the visible part of the iceberg. And "pleasant bonuses" are the results of this long-term policy. This is not an accident, but a planned pattern.
Everyone remembers how smuggled jewelry was laundered in the movie Diamond Hand? Oh, I found a treasure! (bonus in your opinion).

[Operator]

The article is devoted to the outbreak of WWII - as everyone knows, Britain and France were in the forefront in this process, which, starting in 1934, turned a blind eye to all violations of the Versailles Peace Treaty by Germany, and in 1936 they fed Austria to Germany, in 1938 - the Czech Republic and in in 1939 - Poland ("Strange War").

The United States began to militarize its economy (out of stagnation) only in 1940.

[g1washntwn]

You yourself write that in 1940 the United States had already begun to overcome the crisis, that is, planning, organizational and preparatory measures to "spin up" their military economy happened a little earlier. Given that the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve have worked hand in hand, it is strange to look for a lack of logical connections and try to ignore the beneficiaries. The Anglo-Saxons, in their role, do all the dirty work with someone else's hands, but the United States is also in the position when it is customary to say that the bull's-eye doesn't fall far from the apple tree. This is especially noticeable in the fact of summing up the WWII and the continuation.

[Operator]

And WWII began a year earlier, i.e. not the USA was its initiator.

[g1washntwn]

Quote: Operator

And WWII started a year earlier

That is, historically and almost simultaneously. What a coincidence. And all by accident. One thing I know for sure - Rafik is a poor Neinoouat.
You know, in the Criminal Code there is such an article as 205.6. Failure to report a crime, and so all US actions are in that direction. They knew. Seen it. They did nothing to prevent and prepared in advance to profit for themselves. My purely civil verdict - indirect guilt is proven. Whether they were the customer of what Hitler did was a different question, but judging by their subsequent reaction, they took on the task of not completing Nazism — namely, the fight against communism. The killers are over - grab the gun yourself.

[Octopus]

Quote: g1washntwn

Failure to report a crime, and so all US actions are in that direction

What do you mean "not informed"? The League of Nations is aware, I assure you. They even threw someone out into the cold on this case. But not Germany, Germany came out already in the 33rd, before any crime.

And the bright cause of Communism was destroyed, if we take the Americans, Nixon and Reagan. Not very close to WWII, actually. Under Roosevelt, Soviet power spread from the Oder to Korea, and as a result of the race, from Denmark to Hong Kong.

[g1washntwn]

McCarthyism is already a terry degree of communism for the domestic consumer. Immediately after 1917, this ideology was of little interest to the Americans, since they did not see a direct threat to themselves and even tried to instill something in themselves. But roughly speaking, "standing on the naughty" is all the same participation in an organized gang, without options, you are a youngster, or you just stand aside and put seeds in your pocket while others take out the cash register.

[Octopus]

McCarthyism has nothing to do with Nixon and Reagan; McCarthy was in power under Eisenhower. He was right, of course, but could not keep the situation under control; he switched from purging the civil service to a witch hunt. If he had transplanted the entire Roosevelt State Department onto an electric chair, he would have deserved a golden equestrian monument.

[g1washntwn]

Quote: Octopus

McCarthy .... He was, of course, right

Is communism right? Well, you can’t be so frankly open, dear opponent!

[Octopus]

Quote: g1washntwn

is communism evil? Well, you can’t get so frankly open

What does it mean to "burn"? Should I hide it or what?

[g1washntwn]

Sometimes frankness is taken for stupidity. Be careful. But for being honest with you from me. + So with an open visor ... a rarity on the Internet.

[g1washntwn]

McCarthyism is already a terry degree the fight against communism and for the domestic consumer. Immediately after 1917, this ideology was of little interest to the Americans, since they did not see a direct threat to themselves and even tried to instill something in themselves. But roughly speaking, "standing on the naughty" is all the same participation in an organized gang, without options, you are a youngster, or you just stand aside and put seeds in your pocket while others take out the cash register.

[Kostadinov]

It is impossible to remove the main blame for the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century from German imperialism.
He beat the most powerful imperialist state in a military relationship and naturally strove for world domination. Only after World War II did American imperialism take its place.

[Old26]

Quote: Vladivostok1969

At the same time, America traded not only with the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition

Well, we, Sergei, also traded with Nazi Germany? Based on this, can we also be ranked among those who unleashed the Second World War ??

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Old26

Based on this, can we also be ranked among those who unleashed the Second World War ??

So already ... they ranked them. Ask the same Poles.

[Octopus]

Quote: Alexey RA

So already ... they ranked them. Ask the same Poles

You see, this is not a completely similar case. By analogy with the Poles, Iceland can bring claims to the States.

But does not show, for some reason. How so?

[g1washntwn]

The theory that Hitler is just an instrument of struggle with the communist USSR, and the beneficiaries are completely different, has the right to life. I already wrote that Einstein’s theory has not been proved, but do we sharpen all fundamental science under it? Well, there you go! I’m all about the same: Nazism 1939 is a coronavirus dispersed in Europe, and the speed of light is not constant. Prove the opposite. He took the popcorn.

[Operator]

Quote: g1washntwn

simultaneously

In the prewar period, time is compressed repeatedly.

[BAI]

The Soviet empire rose

The author stupidly or consciously continues to pour mud on the USSR. Empire is a class state, one of the goals of which is the enslavement of other states and existence at their expense. The USSR has never been an empire. Putting it on the same level with empires, the author equalizes imperialism in general, and fascism in particular (as one of the manifestations of imperialism), with socialism of the USSR. And the equalization of the USSR and fascist Germany is a criminal offense. Who and when will take away the author in his hopeless stupidity?

[1970mk]

Samsonov's time to FORBID - Nonsense just Scale .... schizophrenia clearly ...

[NordUral]

Where are you broadcasting from, 1970mk? The author put everything on the shelves, as it was.

[Doctor Evil]

For some reason, I remembered Polykhaev's universal stamp from The Golden Calf. In response to the vile intrigues of the Masters of the West, stretching out their lascivious tentacles in the direction of the Russian super-ethnos, we are Herculeans, as one person will answer: ... and also to everyone that will be needed in the future.

[NordUral]

That was Roosevelt's New Deal. However, not everything is glued. There is no decisive change. It was possible to get out of the pit, but it was not possible to rush forward. It is impossible to combine capitalism and the elements of socialism. Throughout the 30s, the US economy has stagnated. In 1937, a new wave of crisis erupted. Analysts predict a new wave of great depression and economic collapse in 1940.

But socialism with the elements of capitalism can and should be built.
Planned economy of group "A" and market economy in group "B". so it is in agriculture. The basis is state property, no oligarchs, only entrepreneurs who achieve success with their heads and hands.

[sanya]

The author contradicts himself
On the one hand, the USA is nurturing new centers of power, and on the other hand, the goal of the war is to defeat those whom they have nurtured ...
The war was fought between the United States and the British Empire only in the wrong hands
For these purposes, the United States carried out the so-called industrialization in the USSR, while completely lending this project for American money
Then they helped Germany
And by 1941, the issue with the British had already been resolved ... Then it remained only to end the war. For starters, they collided the USSR and Germany and helped the weakest side, and then solved the issue with Japan.
That's it, the game has been played.

[EvilLion]

Great Britain in the same way sold the USSR almost everything that was then sold for money. Because the Great Depression is not only in the USA. In the early 30s, the USSR was not considered a threat. Strange, but not very powerful country. True, in June 1941, the USSR was once again under sanctions. And the alignment of forces was unclear. The Yankees were going to sign up for a victim of aggression, well, there already earn some money. In this regard, any nonsense about the Soviet attack on Germany is simply nonsense. The Kremlin understood that it was necessary to secure a maximum of allies. But the readiness of the Americans to support the one who will be attacked does not mean that they started a war. The war in Europe could go in many different ways, none of which the Americans controlled. Theoretically, the Germans could miserably lose in the 1940th in France, and that would be the end of it. Even overt pressure on the Japanese and sanctions blocking the supply of oil to the Japanese in the face of the defeat of Germany could cancel the Japanese plans for the invasion of South Asia, where they would have been waiting for all the colonial powers that had been robbed of Hitler in real history.

There is a difference between control and plans for a particular outcome.

[EvilLion]

Where are the psychiatrists? The author of the United States is confused with Poland and Germany.

[andrew42]

It is high time to stop referring to the USA / USA with the term "state". This is "Khazar Kaganate 2.0" in all its glory, evident after the Yankees' victory over the Confederates in the Civil War. Appeals to the United States as a state, to the US government leaders are senseless and stupid. These figures do exactly what, and exactly as much as indicated by the "unknown fathers" of America. The real structure of government is based on Freemasonry as half-blind managers of government. There is no need to talk about the president, the Senate and the Supreme Court, for a long time this is pure props for the "good Samaritans."

[Whalebone]

It is stronger than Faust Goethe. I look forward to continuing.

[kig]

Some of us, contrary to the instructions of the President on the inadmissibility of falsification and attempts to revise the history of World War II, are trying to revise this history. Basically, Poland is appointed the instigator, and now the turn has reached the stronghold of world democracy.