Combined small arms: causes, projects and prospects


In previous materials (Forgotten Soviet cartridge 6x49 mm vs cartridge 6,8 mm NGSW и Caliber bullets and a tungsten carbide conical barrel: the future of small arms) we examined technical solutions that can be applied to create a promising small arms weaponscapable of effectively resisting small arms developed in the United States under the NGSW program.


As the main objectives of the program NGSW two declared: increasing the range of destruction of targets protected existing and perspective means of individual armor protection (NIB), and increasing the effective range of regular infantry infantry weapons.

From the point of view of solving the task of hitting targets protected by NIB, the most effective solution is most likely to create a smoothbore small arms in combination with high-speed sub-caliber bullets. At the same time, it is likely that weapons with sub-caliber bullets will have less accuracy and accuracy at long distances - over 500 meters, even when firing in single-shot mode. Or the solution to this problem will require the manufacture of feathered sub-caliber bullets (OPP) with extremely high accuracy, which will make them too expensive for even special operations forces (MTR).

At the same time, the creation of a universal weapon capable of effectively hitting targets protected by NIB at short ranges and ensuring high accuracy and accuracy of hits at long ranges may not be possible. Weapons under a powerful cartridge will not allow providing the necessary density of fire to obtain an acceptable probability of hitting targets at close range, and a weak cartridge will not provide acceptable efficiency of hitting targets at long range.

So what? To arm soldiers with two types of assault rifles / rifles, for example, when most of the units are armed with assault rifles for conditionally close combat, and a smaller part is equipped with long-range "Marxman" rifles?

Two ammunition for different ranges


In principle, such a separation has always existed. If you recall the Second World War, then in the Soviet troops there were both long-range Mosin rifles of the 1891 caliber of 7,62x54R caliber and Shpagin submachine guns (PPSh) of the 1941 model of 7,62x25 mm caliber.


Mosin rifle model 1891 and PPSh model 1941

The German army had a similar situation: a Mauser 98k rifle (carbine) of caliber 7,92 × 57 mm and a submachine gun MP 40 of caliber 9x19 mm.


Mauser 98k rifle and MP 40 submachine gun

The creation of small arms under an intermediate cartridge in the middle of the 7,62th century, it would seem, changed the situation: all the infantry (motorized infantry) was armed with a single model of small arms, in the USSR the legendary Kalashnikov assault rifle of 39xXNUMX mm caliber became the ancestor of this type of weapon.

Combined small arms: causes, projects and prospects
Kalashnikov assault rifle under an intermediate cartridge of 7,62x39 mm caliber

Subsequently, the leading armies of the world switched to low-pulse cartridges: caliber 5,45x39 mm in the USSR and the Warsaw Treaty countries and caliber 5,56x45 mm in the United States and NATO countries.

Nevertheless, it quickly became clear that the weapon under the intermediate and low-pulse cartridge does not provide for the defeat of targets at all necessary distances of fire fighting. This led to the appearance in the rifle units of the USSR / Russia and the USA, in addition to weapons under 5,45x39 / 5,56x45 mm cartridges, weapons under more powerful cartridges 7,62x54R and 7,62x51 mm. In the USSR, it was the Dragunov sniper rifle (SVD) and a Kalashnikov machine gun (PK) of 7,62x54R caliber, while in the USA it was an M14 automatic rifle and an M60 machine gun of 7,62x51 mm caliber.


"Marxman" rifles SVD and M14


Kalashnikov machine gun and M60 machine gun

Nevertheless, the ratio of 5,45x39 / 5,56x45 mm weapons to 7,62x54R / 7,62x51 mm caliber weapons was significantly shifted in favor of the weapon under a low-pulse cartridge. The situation began to change after the U.S. armed forces entered Afghanistan, where it turned out that 4x5,56 mm M45 rifles were often ineffective, since in the highlands the enemy often attacked from a long distance using 7,62x54R or 7,62x51 mm weapons. Also, the military was not satisfied with the ability of the M4 rifle to break through barriers, for example, duval - adobe fences or walls in Central Asia that separate the inner courtyard of a house or house from the street.


Classic duvalls in Central Asia

This led to a natural increase in the interest of the US armed forces in relation to more powerful and efficient weapons.

The simplest solution was to purchase the latest weapons of 7,62x51 mm caliber. In particular, the US Special Operations Forces purchased Belgian rifles FN SCAR modifications SCAR-H caliber 7,62x51 mm, completely abandoning the purchase of modifications SCAR-L caliber 5,56x45 mm. Also, the US Department of Defense purchased 4492 rifles HK G28 (HK 417) caliber 7,62x51 mm as a Marxman rifle.


Rifles FN SCAR-P and HK G28 caliber 7,62x51 mm

At the same time, the topic of the transition of the armed forces to a new cartridge of 6,5-6,8 mm caliber began to be actively discussed. Initially, it was assumed that as the new main ammunition of the US armed forces cartridges are considered as 6,5x39 mm Grendel or 6,8x43 mm Remington SPC.


Cartridges as 6,5x39 mm Grendel and 6,8x43 mm Remington SPC

However, in reality, it turned out that the US armed forces are ready to take a much more decisive step and create a promising weapon-cartridge complex with energy that is 2-3 times higher than the energy of a weapon under a low-pulse cartridge. And in this case, we again return to the question of whether the weapons created under the NGSW program will be able to accurately and efficiently shoot at remote targets in semi-automatic mode, and heap effective shooting at targets at close range, in automatic fire mode.

It is likely that weapons created by the program NGSW, will not provide a bunch of effective shooting in automatic fire at targets at close range, a promising weapon with sub-caliber high-speed ammunition will be inferior to weapons created under the NGSW program when firing at long ranges, and promising weapon for the reincarnation of a cartridge 6x49 mm there will be a compromise between the two options.

In this regard, история may happen again and in the armed forces there will again be two samples of small arms, which are approximately equally common: a classic machine gun for combat at short and medium ranges up to 300-500 meters and a semi-automatic twenty-shot rifle for combat at a range of 500-800 meters, possibly up to 1000 meters . In this case, the rifle squad will lose to the enemy armed only with assault rifles in the case of fighting at short range, and lose to the enemy armed only with semi-automatic rifles in the case of fighting at long range.

The question arises: is it possible to implement a combined solution based on the use of two types of ammunition?

Combined Hunting Weapon


Combined weapons are quite widespread in the hunting environment. In general, multi-barrel single-shot models were developed - one cartridge per barrel. Typically, the number of trunks varies from two to four. For example, a shotgun can have two smooth 12-gauge barrels and two rifled barrels, but in practice the combination of different calibers is limited only by the manufacturer’s imagination.


Combination Shotgun Examples

With store and self-loading models, everything is not so rosy, which is understandable by the complexity of creating such weapons. Nevertheless, it exists and was developed in the USSR / Russia, in TsKIB SOO.

The MTs-27 shotgun combines a single-shot upper rifled barrel with a caliber of 9x53 mm, with a longitudinally-sliding bolt, and a smooth barrel with a detachable magazine for two 20-round cartridges. The drawback of the MC-27 is its weight of 3,8 kg.


Shotgun MTs-27

An even more advanced model was the MTs-28 shotgun, in which there are two self-loading mechanisms and two magazines for both types of barrels. The upper barrel with a rotor-type drum for three .22LR rounds is equipped with a free shutter. The lower smooth barrel with gas automatic control and a box magazine for two rounds is implemented as in the MTs-27 rifle. The ease of implementation and reliability of this weapon is noted. The disadvantage, as in the case of the MTs-27, was the mass of weapons, amounting to 3,9 kg. The MT-28 combined rifle was not distributed due to the extremely limited output volume.


Shotgun MTs-28

In the MTs-29-3 rifle, the top single-shot smooth barrel of 20 caliber (MTs-29 - 32 caliber) was combined with a .22LR barrel with a free shutter and a tubular eight-shot magazine.


Shotgun MTs-29

Despite the fact that the combined self-loading weapon has not gained popularity, the very fact of its creation suggests that this is quite feasible. It must be understood that the above samples were created in the 60s - 70s of the XX century.

Combined Combat Weapons


The most famous attempt to create a combat combined weapon can be considered the American project OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon), in which a prototype of the promising XM29 rifle was created, which combined a 5,56x45 mm automatic rifle (KE module) and an automatic 20 mm caliber grenade launcher (module HE).


OICW Prototypes


The final sample XM29, developed by the OICW program

As in the case of hunting weapons, the mass of the XM29, amounting to 7,8-8,2 kg, became a serious obstacle. However, the problem was solved non-trivial. In addition to the multiply-charged grenade launcher of 20 mm caliber, which in itself is quite a lot, a significant amount of weight was had by an expensive computer sight, providing remote detonation of grenades.

But the main obstacle to the XM29 most likely was the complexity of the implementation of the aiming system, providing remote detonation of grenades over the target. Given the fact that the development of the XM-25 grenade launcher complex, created on the basis of the backlog under the OICW program, was closed, most likely it was not possible to provide guaranteed detonation of grenades over the target, which depreciated the entire program. At the same time, the idea of ​​creating a combined weapon does not discredit it.

By analogy with the XM29, a Daewoo K11 rifle-grenade launcher system with 5,56 × 45 mm and 20 × 85 mm caliber grenades was developed in South Korea. The curb weight of the Daewoo K11 was 7,1 kg. The grenade launcher module was manually recharged using a sliding bolt. In 2017, the second generation of the Daewoo K11 complex was introduced, it is possible that the project will still receive further development.


Shooting grenade launcher Daewoo K11

In Australia, the AICW (Advanced Infantry Combat Weapon - advanced infantry fighting weapon) was developed. The basis of the promising weapon was the well-known 5,56 × 45 mm Steyr AUG rifle, supplemented by a three-shot 40 mm grenade launcher made according to the Metal Storm system with a sequential arrangement of grenades, and an electron-optical sight. Structurally, such a system is simpler and more reliable, and the barrel of the machine is longer than the XM29 or Daewoo K11, but the curb weight of the complex was 9,9 kg, which was absolutely unacceptable.


AICW Combined Rifle

In the USSR, combat combined weapons, the 80.002 rifle-grenade launcher system, were created in the 70s of the 12,7th century, on the basis of a Kalashnikov assault rifle, supplemented by a ten-shot grenade launcher for 80.002 millimeter caliber ammunition. Product 1979 did not leave the prototype stage and the project was closed in 90, although the solutions in the framework of this project were worked out by designers until the XNUMXs.


Prototype of a product 80.002

The simplest and most functional way of creating a combined military weapon was to place an additional module on a standard small arms weapon. If we discard single-shot grenade launchers and talk only about multiply-charged solutions, where the grenade launcher module is actually a small-arms weapon, then we can recall the quite successful American experience of installing under-barrel shotguns on M16 and M4 rifles.


M16 and M4 rifles with mounted multi-shot under-barrel shotgun

In Russia, a 9A91 9x39 mm caliber automatic developed by GUP KBP was equipped with a multi-shot under-barrel shotgun.


9A91 assault rifle with a shotgun

Thus, we can say that in different countries there is considerable experience in the creation of combined small arms, which, although not always led to the appearance of mass-produced products, allowed us to gain experience in their development, which can subsequently be claimed in promising small arms models.

Advanced Combat Weapon


The idea of ​​a promising combined weapon was considered by the author in the article Assault Rifle: What Should It Be?published in the journal "Soldier of Fortune" No. 9 for September 2007. Since then, little has changed in the field of small arms, and it can be taken as the basis for the formation of the concept of a promising rifle, discarding the most radical decisions, such as cartridges with electric ignition.

As we said at the beginning of the article, the prospective combined rifle under consideration should be able to conduct automatic fire with acceptable accuracy and the probability of hitting targets protected by NIB, which should be ensured by the use of feathered sub-caliber bullets, or sub-caliber bullets of a different layout. At the same time, there is a possibility that it will not be possible to ensure acceptable accuracy and accuracy of hits by caliber bullets at targets located at a distance of 500 meters or more, which may require the possibility of semi-automatic firing of a cartridge with a rifled bullet of sufficiently high power.

A promising combined rifle should include a module with a smooth, possibly conical barrel, for firing bursts at ranges up to 400-500 meters, under a telescopic cartridge with an OPP caliber of 2,5 / 10 mm - 3,5 / 10 mm, and a module, made according to the “bullpup” scheme, with a rifled barrel designed for semi-automatic shooting with high accuracy, a cartridge of 6-8 mm caliber, at a range of up to 800-1000 meters.

Thus, the promising weapon will be somewhat similar to the weapons created as part of the OICW program. Could it be that we will repeat the mistakes of the creators of weapons on this and similar programs?

First reason The closure of the OICW program was the low efficiency of 20-mm grenades with remote detonation, which we do not provide for using in a promising combined rifle.

The second reason OICW program closures are the high cost of weapons developed under the OICW program. We have previously considered that by the criterion of cost-effectiveness, small arms are ahead of many other weapons. In addition, the absence of grenades with remote detonation makes it unnecessary to develop, with the composition of a promising combined rifle, a specialized, expensive electron-optical sighting system.

We do not plan to equip with the prospective combined rifle the millionth army, crews of armored vehicles and auxiliary units. First of all, a promising combined rifle is intended for Special Operations Forces, and secondly, for warring units, that is, the need for new weapons can be estimated at 10 thousand - 100 thousand units.

Taking for the maximum cost of one promising combined rifle in the amount of 500 thousand rubles, we get the necessary amounts for the purchase of respectively 5 billion and 50 billion rubles. Is it a lot or a little? For example, a football stadium in St. Petersburg cost about 43-50,8 billion rubles. About 50 billion rubles is worth one nuclear-powered icebreaker of the Arctic type. The military budget of the Russian Federation in 2020 is approximately 3 trillion. rubles.

If someone considers the cost of small arms in the amount of 500 thousand rubles sky-high, then he should pay attention to the products of the Russian company Lobaev arms, the cost of which rifles comes to two million rubles. In addition, an increase in the series may affect the cost, that is, for a batch of 10 thousand units it will be 500 thousand rubles, and for a batch of 100 thousand units, it is already 250 thousand rubles. In general, the issue of value is a debatable issue.

Third reason The closure of the OICW program is a significant weight of the received weapons samples, and this applies to other similar programs. Can this problem be solved?

The mass of the KE module, the automatic part of the XM29 complex, could not be found, but the mass of the Heckler & Koch XM8 rifle at the development stage was 2,6–2,9 kg. Another example is the Remington 700 Titanium mountain rifle weighing 2,4-3 kg in calibers up to the powerful .300 Win Mag.


HK XM8 Rifle and Remington 700 Titanium Mountain Rifle

The rough addition of the XM8 and Remington 700 Titanium gives a mass of about 6 kg, but we need a semi-automatic module for a rifled cartridge, on the other hand, in a single design, some elements of the weapon will also be unified (butt, stock). How else can you reduce weight?

The American company PROOF Research is actively developing its line of carbon fiber trunks with a steel liner. PROOF Research's trunks include a 416R stainless steel inner liner and a solid carbon fiber-based polymer composite outer casing. Composite trunks from PROOF Research weigh on average half as much as conventional trunks of the same profile. The greatest benefit comes from their use in medium and large caliber rifles.

Composite material also significantly dampens vibrations that occur in the walls of the barrel during the shot. A carbon fiber barrel is also advantageous for intensive firing, since, according to the manufacturer, it gives off heat much faster and its cooling time is about 60% of the time required to cool an all-metal barrel. This is achieved due to the special structure of the material, the selection of the properties of the carbon fiber matrix and surface characteristics.

The .50 BMG sniper rifle demonstrated at the United States Marine Corps, based on the McMillan TAC-50, with a Steiner 5-25 × 56 sight and Cadex stock, equipped with a PROOF Research barrel, weighs 4,5 kg less than the standard version. This gain is due to the use of a composite barrel with a reduced weight of 55%. PROOF Research is so far the only company whose carbon fiber barrels are used by the US Army and special forces of other states.


Weapons with barrels and carbon fiber barrels by PROOF Research

Composite trunks made of carbon fiber are also produced by Christensen Arms, a competitor to PROOF Research, it is possible that other weapons companies are also developing in this area.


Christensen Arms Barrel Weapons

Given the fact that the mass of the barrel is an essential part of the weapon, the use of composite barrel in a promising combined rifle will save several kilograms of weight.

Also, composite materials and titanium can be used in the manufacture of the box and receiver. An even more promising solution may be the use of foamed materials and materials with a complexly oriented internal structure, which we talked about in the article Armor of God: technologies for promising means of individual armor protection, and which should further contribute to reducing returns.


Promising materials

The combination of a titanium frame, composite materials and materials with a complex internal structure will not only help reduce the weight of a promising combined rifle to four to five kilograms, but also provide the necessary rigidity of the structure, as well as heat removal from the trunks.

The use of a silencer - a closed muzzle brake of the compensator, which seems to become a steady trend, will reduce recoil and increase accuracy of fire, as well as minimize the impact of the sound of a shot on the hearing organs of a soldier. It is likely that the silencer will be needed only on the module for firing bursts, while on the module for precision firing its installation will be optional or optional.

An additional advantage of a promising combined rifle can be increased reliability, due to the presence of two independent mechanisms with a common trigger and a fuse lever. The fuse operation algorithm for example can be as follows:
- fuse - automatic fire (smooth barrel) - single shooting (smooth barrel) - single shooting (rifled barrel);
or
- fuse - automatic fire (smooth barrel) - firing in short bursts of 2 or 3 shots (smooth barrel) - firing single (smooth barrel) - firing single (rifled barrel).

Conclusion


How appropriate is the creation of a combined rifle? The whole question is whether it will be possible to ensure the necessary probability of hitting targets protected by NIB in the entire range of required ranges, using weapons only with a rifled barrel and caliber bullets, or weapons only with a smooth barrel and sub-caliber bullets.

Firing range is increasing. This is facilitated by the appearance of new sighting systems, providing not only detection, but also target designation of the arrow for a confident hit, taking into account the distance to the target and meteorological factors. And promising small arms must match the capabilities of such sighting systems.
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  1. God save the king 7 February 2020 18: 27 New
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    The idea is vicious in nature. Carrying excess weight in your hands is always bad, while the "combined" weapon does not have any distinct advantages.
    1. Vladimir_2U 8 February 2020 06: 58 New
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      for firing bursts at ranges of up to 400-500 meters, under a telescopic cartridge with an OPP caliber of 2,5 / 10 mm - 3,5 / 10 mm, and a module made according to the “bullpup” scheme, with a rifled barrel designed for semi-automatic shooting with high accuracy, a cartridge of 6-8 mm caliber, at a range of up to 800-1000 meters.
      In my opinion, the author is fundamentally mistaken in proposing to combine a sniper and a machine gun, but that’s not even the point. What is the point of sculpting a semiautomatic device, which easily turns into an automatic machine, for long distances also an automatic machine for medium and close ones, if they are approximately (plus or minus) in armor-piercing and slaughter? Then it’s more logical to add PP, it will at least be easier, and for armor-piercing bullets like THV.
      1. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 35 New
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        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        for firing bursts at ranges of up to 400-500 meters, under a telescopic cartridge with an OPP caliber of 2,5 / 10 mm - 3,5 / 10 mm, and a module made according to the “bullpup” scheme, with a rifled barrel designed for semi-automatic shooting with high accuracy, a cartridge of 6-8 mm caliber, at a range of up to 800-1000 meters.
        In my opinion, the author is fundamentally mistaken in proposing to combine a sniper and a machine gun, but that’s not even the point. What is the point of sculpting a semiautomatic device, which easily turns into an automatic machine, for long distances also an automatic machine for medium and close ones, if they are approximately (plus or minus) in armor-piercing and slaughter? Then it’s more logical to add PP, it will at least be easier, and for armor-piercing bullets like THV.


        Prerequisite for the formation of the concept:
        At the same time, the creation of a universal weapon capable of effectively hitting targets protected by NIB at short ranges and ensuring high accuracy and accuracy of hits at long ranges may not be possible. Weapons under a powerful cartridge will not allow providing the necessary density of fire to obtain an acceptable probability of hitting targets at close range, and a weak cartridge will not provide acceptable efficiency of hitting targets at long range.


        Having turned a semiautomatic device with a powerful cartridge into an automatic machine, we get:
        Weapons under a powerful cartridge will not allow to provide the necessary density of fire, to obtain an acceptable probability of hitting targets at close range


        As for the machine gun or submachine gun, I assume that the software will not ensure the penetration of either existing or promising NIBs.
        1. Vladimir_2U 8 February 2020 13: 44 New
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          Quote: AVM
          Weapons under a powerful cartridge will not allow to provide the necessary density of fire

          Excuse me, I would also understand that such a cartridge does not provide acceptable accuracy when auth. shooting, which is debatable, but what does the density of fire have to do with it? The fire density is determined by the rate of fire, and the rate of fire is largely the capacity of the magazine, but why should the magazine's capacity for a powerful cartridge be lower than that for a less powerful, but more high-speed one? And now all the technological tricks described in the article can and should be used not for the “two-cartridge” weapon chimera, but for the improvement of the “one-cartridge” weapon both in terms of accuracy, and in terms of the convenience of controlling automatic fire and in terms of the possibility of conducting long automatic fire, but this is already puts in machine guns.
          Quote: AVM
          As for the machine gun or submachine gun, I assume that the software will not ensure the penetration of either existing or promising NIBs.
          In general, I agree, but the PP mentioned not just, but with a bullet like THV. And your idea of ​​a telescopic "arrow" is just good for a personal weapon of "last chance" in the conditions of powerful NIB.
    2. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 32 New
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      Quote: God save the King
      The idea is vicious in nature. Carrying excess weight in your hands is always bad, while the "combined" weapon does not have any distinct advantages.


      If you use a ureplastic barrel and a frame made of titanium / composites on a Kalashnikov assault rifle, then its mass can become less than two kg, which is unacceptable, because return will increase. Actually, the article discusses measures to reduce the weight of weapons, just so that the combined rifle in mass does not exceed conventional weapons.
  2. KVU-NSVD 7 February 2020 18: 44 New
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    What are the combinations in the mass army? Just return to start 7.62, and after about eleven years with the widespread introduction of exoskeletons, you can even give out small-caliber automatic guns on an oath or at worst the CPV
  3. Cowbra 7 February 2020 18: 47 New
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    Well, for starters. the main reason for the closure of the program promising grenade launcher complex in the United States called a significant increase in aiming time, it is required to program the munition. Those. very often such a grenade launcher could be crushed by fire. And with efficiency, they just rushed for a long time. which is very effective.
    Further. there are solutions to increase armor penetration - Nikonov, designed to fire two bullets at one point - and is designed specifically against targets in the NIB. In the end, even simpler things affect the range and accuracy - the length of the barrel. eg. I hope you won’t argue about SCS and AKM? And PKK is ... These are cheaper options.
    Another dashing plug - in combination - two different shots with different ballistics. Here the sight should be expensive. Plus, in the park, even a competent fighter will forget to skip from the tracing of one cartridge to another - but will fighters with different barrels not be more effective?
    1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 20: 46 New
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      AN-94 when firing a deuce, does not stack both bullets at one point. Bullets hit with a little dispersion. From where this nonsense is interesting, about 2 in one, it is taken.
      1. Cowbra 7 February 2020 20: 53 New
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        Not critical. close contact with the plate is very kosher. And he puts exactly what is close
        1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 03 New
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          Close !!! At 50 m, the scattering by a deuce is of the order of 10 cm, at 100 about 20, if not more. Illustrative example: Another disadvantage of Abakan is that when you connect a new store, you need to juggle the shutter 2 times.
          1. Cowbra 7 February 2020 21: 36 New
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            Quote: MORDVIN13rus
            At 50 m, scattering by a deuce of the order of 10 cm

            laughing Well, not so, at 50 meters a scatter of two by 10 will be from a hangover and shooting from Makarov, even Stechkin's turn is not so, it's all too much. Another inverse is that there is such a crap with cartridges. what to sob the hunt

            Well yes. with the same type of finger in the ass to get - and then the problem)))
            At all. on the topic of Nikonov, many copies were broken - out, argue with Popenker)
            https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/51/1210953.html
            1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 40 New
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              Watch the video carefully. Onokoi at 50 shows the dispersion, if you tie the hit to his hand, then 15 cm is obtained.
              1. Cowbra 7 February 2020 21: 52 New
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                This is noodles from the manufacturer - from Kalashnikov. Do you know the accuracy of the AK-74? With a blow to the box? 5 cm per 100 meters when firing in line laughing Nothing embarrassed? 10 to 50 meters on the carriage with no knocking?
                1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 53 New
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                  Are you walking or pretending to be?
                  1. Cowbra 7 February 2020 21: 54 New
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                    No, I’m pretending to just shoot lying down and if the handles are not right, you can put
                    1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 55 New
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                      No, it’s definitely going. The bazaar is over, I have the honor.
    2. ProkletyiPirat 8 February 2020 00: 40 New
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      Quote: Cowbra
      Well, for starters. the main reason for the closure of the program promising grenade launcher complex in the United States called a significant increase in aiming time, it is required to program the munition.

      In fact, the main reason for the failure is not the aiming time and high cost, but the fragmentation field efficiency, they gradually increased the caliber from 25mm to 40mm, which led to worse trajectory parameters with the same recoil, as a result, the range, accuracy, etc., decreased and as a result, the complex became meaningless.
      1. Simargl 8 February 2020 01: 21 New
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        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
        In fact, the main reason for the failure is not the aiming time and not the high cost, but the fragmentation field efficiency
        Yes, people do not know that the tendency to reserve infantry is such that a grenade of 2-30 mm in a couple of meters a unit will soon be treated like a clapperboard. A grenade will have to break an obstacle or pierce armor with direct contact.
      2. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 43 New
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        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
        Quote: Cowbra
        Well, for starters. the main reason for the closure of the program promising grenade launcher complex in the United States called a significant increase in aiming time, it is required to program the munition.

        In fact, the main reason for the failure is not the aiming time and high cost, but the fragmentation field efficiency, they gradually increased the caliber from 25mm to 40mm, which led to worse trajectory parameters with the same recoil, as a result, the range, accuracy, etc., decreased and as a result, the complex became meaningless.


        This is also one of the reasons - in fact, as often happens, there are several of them.
    3. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 42 New
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      Quote: Cowbra
      Well, for starters. the main reason for the closure of the program promising grenade launcher complex in the United States called a significant increase in aiming time, it is required to program the munition. Those. very often such a grenade launcher could be crushed by fire. And with efficiency, they just rushed for a long time. which is very effective.


      Yes, this is one of the reasons that is important.

      Quote: Cowbra
      Further. there are solutions to increase armor penetration - Nikonov, designed to fire two bullets at one point - and is designed specifically against targets in the NIB.


      "Deuce" in Nikonov is likely to increase the likelihood of defeat. Increased armor penetration is a bonus, but only at a short range, because by 100 meters, the distance between the bullets will be already about 5-10 cm.

      Quote: Cowbra
      In the end, even simpler things affect the range and accuracy - the length of the barrel. eg. I hope you won’t argue about SCS and AKM? And PKK is ... These are cheaper options.


      Barrel length should be optimal for a particular cartridge. Just increasing the barrel length does not increase efficiency.

      Quote: Cowbra
      Another dashing plug - in combination - two different shots with different ballistics. Here the sight should be expensive. Plus, even a competent fighter will forget to skip from the trace of one cartridge to another


      I would suggest offhand just two reticles of different colors - red and green, after a day of training, the fighter will reflexively choose the right one. Additionally, switching the backlight of the red or green grid with the fuse switching can be synchronized - this is cheap and reliable. But in case of failure, two multi-colored grids will still remain.

      Quote: Cowbra
      - But fighters with different trunks will not be more effective?


      In this regard, the story may repeat itself and in the armed forces there will again be two samples of small arms, which are approximately equally common: a classic automatic machine for combat at short and medium ranges up to 300-500 meters and a semi-automatic twenty-shot rifle for combat at a range of 500-800 meters, possibly up to 1000 meters. In this case, the rifle squad will lose to the enemy armed only with assault rifles in the case of short-range combat, and lose to the enemy armed with only semi-automatic rifles in the case of long-range combat.
  4. Operator 7 February 2020 18: 49 New
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    Single-barrel small arms still have unused reserves - for example, in the current NGSW competition, two weapon models with a fire monitor are presented, which allow to reduce the recoil momentum.

    If we supplement this scheme with the firing mode on the roll-out of the firing unit (as in the experimental AK model of 1978), then the recoil momentum when firing a cartridge of 6,8x45 mm will decrease to the cartridge level of 5,56x45mm.
    1. Andrey.AN 7 February 2020 19: 11 New
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      no, the gun monitor, like the muffler, is not a muzzle brake, a shock absorber is more likely, a muzzle brake reflects reactive gases in the opposite direction (up-down-to the sides) compensating for the return.
      1. Operator 7 February 2020 19: 55 New
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        The carriage scheme without a roll-out really only reduces the peak value of the recoil impulse, smearing it in time.

        But the monitors with roll-out also reduce the total magnitude of the recoil impulse due to its damping by the inertia impulse of the forward firing unit.
        1. Andrey.AN 7 February 2020 21: 50 New
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          like the moving forward part only holds the center of gravity of the weapon in place so that it does not swing. But on a machine with a shutter on a gas outlet tube, the shutter plays the role of such a shock absorber, on the AEK it seems to be balanced by the forward-moving part, and equalize with the compensator. With Kalashnikov, the carriage does not fit.
          1. Operator 7 February 2020 23: 14 New
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            I say - an experienced AK sample of 1978
            https://raigap.livejournal.com/578521.html

            The carriage scheme, on the one hand, allows you to stretch / reduce the recoil momentum, but, on the other hand, reduces the accuracy of firing bursts from an uncomfortable position due to the fact that the oscillations of the weapon increase due to a cyclical change in its center of gravity (the movable firing unit weighs about 1/2 of the weight of all weapons).

            But since the participants of the NGSW competition went on to use a fire monitor, it is logical for them to take the second step - to enter the firing mode on the roll of the firing unit.
        2. Andrey.AN 7 February 2020 22: 03 New
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          whatever you say, AK seems to be close to ideal.
        3. Andrey.AN 7 February 2020 22: 35 New
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          It is possible to provide for automatic locking, for single shots with cartridges of greater power, with manual reloading, the shoulder will dry out, but if there is nowhere to go, then an option.
        4. prodi 8 February 2020 16: 52 New
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          here, I very vaguely imagine how a fire monitor works with a shifted recoil momentum, and I have no idea how this can happen on a roll-out of a firing unit?
          1. Operator 8 February 2020 17: 45 New
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            After changing the magazine, the firing unit is manually retracted (by the shutter handle), grabs the cartridge from the magazine, sends it to the barrel and stops in the extreme rear position. When you press the trigger, the unit moves forward, removes the striker from the retainer, which punctures the capsule until the front stop of the unit in the carriage. The pressure of the powder gases overcomes the force of inertia of the unit, stops its forward movement and pushes back. The gas engine opens the hatcher, the unit grabs the next cartridge from the magazine and the cycle is repeated until the finger is removed from the trigger, while the unit is locked in its extreme rear position.

            In the case of a fire monitor with an accumulation of recoil momentum from the store in one cycle, two / three cartridges are captured, one of which is immediately sent to the barrel, and the remaining wait for their turn.
            1. prodi 8 February 2020 21: 26 New
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              let's say, but how, in principle, is the fixed (two) combined with the move, presumably, from the front position?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. prodi 8 February 2020 21: 55 New
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                  I continue to misunderstand: there are two cartridges in the laying unit, it is in the extreme forward position for a fixed line of two shots; further, he rolls back and before the reel after a double shot he can’t capture anything in any way, and there is no more than one cartridge in the reel. It is not clear exactly “two in one bottle”: a fixed position of the firing unit in front for a double shot, and a fixed position in the back, for a shot on a roll
                  1. Operator 8 February 2020 23: 27 New
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                    AN-94:
                    - the unit is in the front position with emphasis on the receiver, the first cartridge in the barrel, the second cartridge in the unit feeder;
                    - pulling the trigger;
                    - a shot by the first cartridge, the beginning of the rollback of the unit, the ejection of a spent cartridge case, the supply of the second cartridge into the barrel, a shot of the second cartridge, the ejection of the cartridge case, rebound of the unit forward;
                    - capture of the third cartridge from the magazine into the barrel, capture of the fourth cartridge into the feeder, stopping the unit with emphasis in the receiver;
                    - a shot with a third cartridge, etc.

                    At G11, a horizontal magazine is located directly on the unit and moves with it, so it does not need a special feeder.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Operator 8 February 2020 21: 54 New
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                Cartridges are captured from the magazine when the firing unit is rolled forward, and bursts are fired during rollback.
                1. prodi 8 February 2020 22: 10 New
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                  so how? When rolling back after a fixed queue to the rear position, there are no more cartridges in the firing unit for a shot on a roll
    2. Simargl 8 February 2020 01: 26 New
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      Quote: Operator
      Weapon models with a fire monitor designed to reduce recoil momentum
      The carriage circuit does not reduce the recoil momentum! Moreover, she summarizes it.
      The meaning of the fire monitor scheme is the minimum transfer of momentum to the weapon until the last shot of the series.
      In the AN-94, the carriage accumulates the momentum of one shot, and in the G-11 - two. And then the momentum of all two / three shots hits on the shoulder.
      1. Morzh Redkovich Borschitsky 8 February 2020 15: 56 New
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        But what can be done with impulse? I do not fully understand this thing.

        Can it be spent on turbulization of a thin layer of water? in which to hang that carriage.

        Or can it be spent on spinning a flywheel?

        Or he will still find a hole and hit in the shoulder.
        1. Simargl 8 February 2020 22: 15 New
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          Quote: Walrus Redkovich Borshitsky
          I do not fully understand this thing.
          P₁ = (-) P₂
          m₁V₁ = (-) m₂V₂ This is if rude.
          In fact, gases are also flying forward, sometimes comparable in weight to a bullet.
          m₁V₁ + m₃V₃ = (-) m₂V₂

          Gases can be partially redirected back and / or to the sides, their speed can be reduced.
          Automation with balancers (like AEK 97x) is designed to reduce the effect of shutter movements.

          1 - bullet,
          2 - weapons
          3 - gases.
          Threat text formatting here ...
    3. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 45 New
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      Quote: Operator
      Single-barrel small arms still have unused reserves - for example, in the current NGSW competition, two weapon models with a fire monitor are presented, which allow to reduce the recoil momentum.

      If we supplement this scheme with the firing mode on the roll-out of the firing unit (as in the experimental AK model of 1978), then the recoil momentum when firing a cartridge of 6,8x45 mm will decrease to the cartridge level of 5,56x45mm.


      Actually:
      How appropriate is the creation of a combined rifle? The whole question is whether it will be possible to ensure the necessary probability of hitting targets protected by NIB in the entire range of required ranges, using weapons only with a rifled barrel and caliber bullets, or weapons only with a smooth barrel and sub-caliber bullets.

      The concept of a hybrid is an attempt to suggest what can be done if one cartridge fails to achieve a positive result.
      1. Operator 8 February 2020 15: 35 New
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        The Americans are digging in the direction of the fire monitor with the roll of the firing unit - XM-806, LWMMG.
  5. Lamata 7 February 2020 19: 01 New
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    XM 29 is generally something monstrous in both mind and weight.
  6. Undecim 7 February 2020 19: 10 New
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    Author, everything new is well forgotten old.

    Villar-Perosa, 1914. We make one barrel for close combat, the second - for medium and long distances.
    Seriously, the author suffered against the tide. Now in all countries there is a question of the maximum relief of weapons, ammunition and infantry equipment, but here it is proposed to increase it, moreover, significantly. At the same time, the combat characteristics of any combined "shotgun" are inferior to the "normal" models.
    1. Undecim 7 February 2020 20: 06 New
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      You can implement the idea at a more modern level, taking as a basis the Korobov TKB-59 assault rifle.

      There is an opportunity to use three calibers at once.
      1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 09 New
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        Only in the TKB bullets from three barrels simultaneously fly out, it was so called a volley gun. If you do your own automation for each caliber, the monster will be the same in weight, it will certainly pull 10 kg.
        1. Undecim 7 February 2020 21: 20 New
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          I suggested as an option. In the end, automation can be left home. Just divide the stores and install the right one.
          1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 25 New
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            A shot of 3 different calibers at the same time, it will wind as a barrel. And if you shoot separately, then there will be no accuracy from the extreme trunks, since the shoulder of the application of force will be shifted, in a word, physicist.
            1. Undecim 7 February 2020 21: 41 New
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              I agree, the layout is not very successful. But you can use the idea of ​​Tromix Lead Delivery Systems.

              Only instead of three identical AR15s use three different-sized samples. Harvester for all occasions.
              1. MORDVIN13rus 7 February 2020 21: 43 New
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                To be honest, nonsense turns out.
                1. Undecim 7 February 2020 22: 00 New
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                  To be honest, nonsense turns out.
                  I agree, but I'm just developing the idea of ​​the author. By the way, there were options and abruptly - four in one. Designed by Australian designer Duncan Gordon in the 60s of the last century.

                  By quickly changing the barrels, we get a 12-caliber rifle, a 7,62 light machine gun, a 5,56 assault rifle or a 9 mm double-barreled submachine gun.
                  Gordon CSWS was called.
  7. andrewkor 7 February 2020 19: 29 New
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    Everything, of course, is interesting. The author, without a doubt, tried very hard, spent his time for gun lovers. But in the double shot of the "Mosin and PPSh rifles", all the same, a 1944 model carbine with an irreplaceable folding bayonet.
    I see so.
    1. Lamata 7 February 2020 19: 49 New
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      Something is generally doubtful that our armed with the principle of long-range mosin and PPSh neighbor. what was given. I have a cousin’s grandfather from 1941 to 1943 in Leningrad who fought with a mosquito. they gave everything (then the brush tore him off during the breaking of the blockade and went home to the stable))
      1. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 51 New
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        Quote: Lamata
        Something is generally doubtful that our armed with the principle of long-range mosin and PPSh neighbor. what was given


        Most likely, for the most part it was, perhaps the weapon "for the task" was given out to intelligence. But in any case, a competent commander will consider what kind of weapon anyone has in order to develop optimal battle tactics. It is stupid to storm the building to drive those who are with the "mosinok", unless there is no alternative.
      2. Izotovp 8 February 2020 12: 15 New
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        Initially, the infantryman’s main weapon was an automatic rifle. PPSh had to go for artillery, tank crews and so on. But: they didn’t have time with rearmament to the beginning of the war, and then they reoriented to a simpler and cheaper weapon-submachine gun as the main one.
    2. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 49 New
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      Quote: andrewkor
      Everything, of course, is interesting. The author, without a doubt, tried very hard, spent his time for gun lovers. But in the double shot of the "Mosin and PPSh rifles", all the same, a 1944 model carbine with an irreplaceable folding bayonet.
      I see so.


      In fact, this is just the latest modification of Mosinki, but formally you are right hi
  8. Morzh Redkovich Borschitsky 7 February 2020 19: 49 New
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    We will help the “harvester” if we separate the unitary cartridge and charge the gunpowder separately. For example, in the form of a tube with paste, which is squeezed out in different dosages for different types of shots.

    It will become possible to use this tube as a universal source of energy for weapons. For example, to make a blank shot, throw a flare, throw a grenade.
  9. Bormanxnumx 7 February 2020 20: 25 New
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    In the photo, not M4 (as in the signature), but M14.
    1. Shopping Mall 8 February 2020 11: 54 New
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      Quote: BORMAN82
      In the photo, not M4 (as in the signature), but M14.

      Thank you, typo, correct.
      1. PCF
        PCF 9 February 2020 20: 40 New
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        Degtyarev sniper rifle (SVD) is also a typo?
        In the second picture, the signature is the Mosin Rifle of 1891, and the image of the Mosin carbine of 1944 ....
        Then I looked diagonally, what am I a corrector?
        More thoroughly necessary, more thoroughly !!!
  10. Kabaev 7 February 2020 21: 10 New
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    I used a combined weapon at one time, I’ll tell you honestly - it’s very convenient. While loading a slingshot with a stone, he shot peas from a harkalka.
  11. Catfish 7 February 2020 21: 49 New
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    1 /.
    the ancestor of this type of weapon was the legendary Kalashnikov assault rifle of 7,62x39 mm caliber.

    And I, by the simplicity of my soul, believed that the ancestor was Stg44 (Mkb42; MP43 / 1) by Hugo Schmeiser.

    2 /. But after reading further:
    ... sniper rifle Degtyareva (SVD)
    ceased to be surprised. If with the second a very strange typo is possible, then the first simply does not correspond to the truth.
  12. bk0010 7 February 2020 22: 25 New
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    Combined weapons have already been made: vpo-302 (366 smooth calibres, 7.62x39 rifled and Grendel). IMHO, it is better to make a weapon for two cartridges of the same caliber with a different impulse, but this is a difficult task: it is simply not possible to solve the issue with a different weight of gunpowder (the work of automation, rifling, complicated mechanics, etc.).
    1. psiho117 9 February 2020 19: 31 New
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      Quote: bk0010
      Combined weapons have already been made

      And I immediately remembered Vakha ...
      Combibolter! wassat
  13. Tarasios 8 February 2020 05: 00 New
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    Weapons with barrels and carbon fiber barrels by PROOF Research
    Christensen Arms Barrel Weapons
    - the signatures are different, the pictures are the same.
    Generally drew attention to the noticeable negligence of the author in the preparation of this material
    1. Shopping Mall 10 February 2020 08: 44 New
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      Quote: Tarasios
      Weapons with barrels and carbon fiber barrels by PROOF Research
      Christensen Arms Barrel Weapons
      - the signatures are different, the pictures are the same.


      Second image:


      After publication, unfortunately, I can not edit.
  14. 2112vda 8 February 2020 07: 46 New
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    Degtyarev sniper rifle?
  15. Greenhorn 8 February 2020 08: 35 New
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    The situation began to change after the U.S. armed forces entered Afghanistan, where it turned out that 4x5,56 mm M45 rifles were often ineffective, since in the highlands the enemy often attacked from a long distance using 7,62x54R or 7,62x51 mm weapons. Also, the military was not satisfied with the ability of the M4 rifle to break through barriers, for example, duval - adobe fences or walls in Central Asia that separate the inner courtyard of a house or house from the street.

    But there were no such problems in Iraq? Ours in Afghanistan did not complain at 5,45. At least, I have never seen such a thing anywhere in the literature. Don't like the M4? Well, they gave out M14 and the end of the matter. In my opinion, someone just wants to warm their hands on “innovation” and “modernization”. And if they have to fight again in the jungle tomorrow? They will say again: "6,8 is too heavy-yo-yo, you won’t take much-yo-yo. You don’t have to shoot for a kilometer. Let's do 4,7 better. With a nano-fuse." Under each theater to rearm the army? Isn't it bold?
    A promising combined rifle should include a module with a smooth, possibly conical barrel, for firing bursts at ranges up to 400-500 meters, under a telescopic cartridge with an OPP caliber of 2,5 / 10 mm - 3,5 / 10 mm, and a module, made according to the “bullpup” scheme, with a rifled barrel designed for semi-automatic shooting with high accuracy, a cartridge of 6-8 mm caliber, at a range of up to 800-1000 meters.

    Of course, I was a "warrior's couch," but I was a little interested in the topic. At a distance of over 500 meters, external factors begin to seriously affect the bullet: wind, humidity, air temperature, derivation. Those. the arrow must be specially trained as a sniper. Each shooter in the unit. Want to make a "universal soldier"? So the division of labor did not appear casual. Is it not better to have a few specialists who know their job thoroughly than one "all-rounder", but only upstairs? The sniper does his part, the machine gunner does his own, etc.
  16. SVD68 8 February 2020 09: 42 New
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    People are different. With different physical abilities and mental characteristics. Therefore, it is better to combine different-sized weapons not in one hand, but in different hands.
  17. Operator 8 February 2020 14: 06 New
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    Quote: Simargl
    The carriage circuit does not reduce the recoil momentum! Moreover, she summarizes it

    The recoil momentum is summed up in a monitors with the production of two or more shots in the course of one reload cycle - for example, as with G11 and AN-94. A double / triple recoil momentum at the end of the line knocks down the sight and does not allow for adjusting the fire in case of a miss on the target.

    In addition, the recoil momentum can only be summarized if low-pulse cartridges are used (which do not penetrate armored plates of the ESAPI type), otherwise double / triple recoil will disable the shooter himself.
  18. cat Rusich 8 February 2020 17: 21 New
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    My suggestion. A compartment of 10 fighters - 1 PKM, 1 SVD, 1 RPG-7 and 2 AK each for "protection" ... Meaning: PKM gives fire density at long distances from 200m, SVD gives accurate fire beyond 300m, RPG-7 works on armored vehicles AK protects them from the flanks and rear, cleans the area. The fighter with AK in theory also replaces the “operator” of PKM and RPG-7 in case of injury or death. The "chest of drawers" and the "lock" (commander and deputy commander of the squad) replace the "operator" of the SVD (not every ordinary soldier can "work" with the SVD). Each AK - GP-25 (underbarrel grenade launcher). The tenth will be the "chest of drawers" his "weapon" head ... and AK.
    1. bk0010 9 February 2020 17: 19 New
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      Then: the compartment of 7 fighters - a chest of drawers, 2 machine gunners (machine gunner and assistant), 2 grenade throwers (grenade launcher and assistant), a shooter (with a rifle, not a sniper pair) and ... a fighter with AK!
      1. cat Rusich 9 February 2020 20: 38 New
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        I make my proposal based on modern reality. PKM machine gunner - 1 (one) without a second number. RPG-7 grenade launcher - 1 (one) without a second number. + 1 (one) SVD shooter (NATO Marksman). For each machine gunner, grenade launcher, shooter 2 (two) soldiers AK = 6 AK + "chest" AK. AK fighters, if necessary, carry an additional BK for PKM and RPG-7, in which case they "substitute". The "chest of drawers" and the "lock" in case of "replace" the arrow - for SVD it is easier to learn 2 (two) fighters than 5 (five). AK fighters are "laborers" in the war. On each AK - GP-25 - replacement of the AGS (better than nothing).
  19. erased 8 February 2020 21: 41 New
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    The author has a good understanding of the topic of individual small arms, but the topic of tactics-structure-staff is not screwing. Universal weapons - a good thing, but worthless. For inferior to each type of specialized trunk. Yes, and to hell is not necessary.
  20. Observer2014 9 February 2020 09: 15 New
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    Respect author hi I persuaded. I will not arm and develop my army with these combi toys bully
  21. Igor Borisovich Zakharov 10 February 2020 11: 11 New
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    1 Strange: - in the review of combined small arms, the author did not mention the Pedersen fixture.
    2 Combined small arms and small arms / grenade launcher are different products.
  22. Sckepsis 14 February 2020 07: 24 New
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    low efficiency 20 mm grenade

    But I read that the Americans were delighted with the grenade launcher in Afghanistan.
    When the author begins to consider the cost of re-equipment, for some reason he takes into account the cost of the weapon itself, and after all, where a lot of money will be spent on preparing the production with all the titans and carbon fiber. The idea stupidly loses in cost / effectiveness. If it’s itching, then it’s better to actually leave two trunks in the unit.
    1. agond 16 February 2020 19: 19 New
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      It’s not so difficult to create a combined two-caliber self-loading weapon for hunting, a valuable idea for TsKIB designers, glued two carbon fiber reinforced rails of trunks 5.6 and 7.62 into one block in a vertical plane and applied ONE free shutter to both trunks (after all, no one will simultaneously shoot from both trunks at once) and here it is weight saving,. Thus, due to the relief of the two trunks, one free bolt of increased mass can be used. And the carob stores, one to the right, the other to the left. True shooting will be with an open shutter, but what a simplicity.
      1. agond 25 February 2020 14: 37 New
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        An appeal to the author of the topic of combined weapons, I made a concrete technical proposal on 16.02.20 a way to create a combined weapon by using one free bolt on two barrels of different calibers and so far there has not been any reaction, evaluation of this proposal, even if this proposal is “an invention” "It has no absolute world novelty (I do not conduct a patent search for analogues), anyway, it is worthy of consideration and evaluation.
  23. Alex.ET 23 May 2020 00: 31 New
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    Or it can add an assortment of ammunition for the ak74 - say, sub-caliber long-range arrow-shaped bullets and something for close combat with high penetrating and / or stopping power. In the end, there are enough varieties of ammunition (9) for different tasks, you can add to expand the capabilities or cover current needs without replacing weapons. And choose, for a city, for example, “stoppers” if without armor, or few ricocheting if there are a lot of civilians, or increased armor-piercing close if “duvals” \ are hung with armor. For mountains or a clean field, for example high-precision in static or high-speed sub-caliber for a moving target.