“Bad” or “Even worse”: scenarios of relations between Ukraine and Russia

143

The end of January of this year became for the Ukrainian-Russian relations a very distinct “Rubicon”, having crossed that Kiev makes it clear that there can be no talk of any normalization even at the most formal level. The words of Vladimir Zelensky, both his words in Poland (the accusation of Russia at the beginning of World War II) and his words already at home, at a briefing held after the meeting with the head of the US State Department (about confidence in the “de-occupation” of Donbass and the return of Crimea with US help) , clearly and unequivocally demonstrate the mood of the authorities "unbroken" to continue the confrontation with Moscow, which they plan to conduct there, relying on the support of overseas owners. This is an absolutely uncontested perspective. Another question, according to what specific scenario will it be implemented.

Consider the scenarios of relations between Russia and Ukraine.



For all the fairly rich invariance of possible events, we will try to reduce their development to three main schemes, which can be arbitrarily designated as “Baltic”, “Georgian” and, say, “Maidan”, or extreme. In this case, the main role will be played by who, in fact, will determine the course of official Kiev: its curators from Washington, the relatively adequate internal players represented by the same local oligarchs, or the most radical circles, political marginalized in abundance generated by the coup and civil the war.

The “Baltic” option is possible in the case of complete control over Kiev by more or less moderate US politicians. Most likely, its main essence will be Ukraine’s maximum separation from Russia in all areas without exception, from economic to cultural, and bloodless confrontation in the form of ongoing demarches against our country in international organizations, lawsuits, and the like. Such a development of the situation will be acceptable for the Ukrainian “masters of life”, over the past few years, who have learned perfectly how to increase their capital, using Russophobic domestic politics and imitating the “reflection of aggression” in the country and continuing to maintain economic relations with our country without unnecessary publicity. For Russia, such a scenario is perhaps the least problematic. Yes, it means the sanctions against our country and attempts to internationally isolate it almost indefinitely, but it can hardly turn into an armed confrontation with Ukraine and its Western allies.

The course of events according to the “Georgian” scenario is possible if hawks prevail in Washington and Kiev. It will certainly mean a much more aggressive behavior of Ukraine, an even greater intensity of Russophobia broadcast by it at all levels both within the country and outside it. However, the most unpleasant thing is that its main difference may well be attempts to return the "illegally occupied territories", and not diplomatically, but by military means. Madness? But were the actions of Tbilisi in 2008 sane? Blind faith in “abroad will help us”, cherished and nurtured by the same Washington, whose top representatives left and right scatter statements about “unconditional support for the territorial integrity of Ukraine”, it may well push its authorities into an adventure on, say, “de-occupation of Donbass”, after which collision will become simply inevitable.

No less probable in this context is the increase in provocations from the "non-independent" in the waters of the Azov and Black Seas. The “trial ball”, which can be considered the “Kerch incident”, was relatively painless for Kiev and, in the end, allowed some of the representatives of his current government to gain additional political points. Why not repeat it, and even on a large scale? By the way, in favor of this assumption is evidenced by the increased attention that the United States devotes specifically to strengthening the naval “power” of Ukraine. The fact that the consequences of this kind of escapade can go far beyond the planned "minimum costs" and result in a full-scale war in Washington does not bother anyone, and in Kiev, it seems, no one can imagine.

However, the most risky and unpredictable for all possible participants is the third option, in which the political situation in Ukraine can get out of anyone's control in general. What is the difference that will cause this: a sharp deterioration in the economic situation, the adoption of unpopular decisions by the authorities, or any other serious crisis. The country has accumulated too many negative factors, each of which is capable of causing a social explosion, and all of them in the aggregate and even more so. At the same time, the only factual real force capable of “saddling” a spontaneous protest and directing it in the direction necessary for itself in Ukraine today is organizations and political movements of the extreme right, radical sense. They are numerous, well organized and armed no worse (if not better) than the state "siloviki". The "Golden Eagle", capable of holding back the raging crowd for months, is no longer there, and the current police will scatter in the blink of an eye.

The most unpleasant thing is that according to this “scenario”, everything can go even without a formal coup: President Zelensky has repeatedly shown how dependent he is on the nationalist “lobby” and how incapable of resisting it.

If this audience comes to power in Ukraine, directly or indirectly, even if only for the shortest time, the consequences will be most sad: from attempts to “spontaneously” attack the Donbass to bloody repressions against Russian-speaking residents declared “accomplices of the aggressor”. What the brutal crowd of “patriots of the nation” is capable of, the events of 2014 in Odessa showed, and not only there. In this case, Russia simply will have no choice but to directly intervene in spite of all the cries and prohibitions of the “world community”. Otherwise, all patriotic slogans and ideas of the “Russian world” can be put to an end forever.

As you can see, “good” options between Kiev and Moscow are somehow not visible. The choice so far is between "bad" and "worse." The saddest thing is that we will probably not make the choice between the bad ones ...
143 comments
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  1. +6
    3 February 2020 10: 12
    until America switches to its foreign policy from Russia to someone else, occupied (Ukraine) will not change its policy. "do not judge strictly my opinion"
    1. +7
      3 February 2020 10: 39
      Quote: 52 master
      until America switches to its foreign policy from Russia to someone else, occupied (Ukraine) will not change its policy. "do not judge strictly my opinion"

      Moreover, the worse the situation in Europe, the better for the United States.
    2. +6
      3 February 2020 10: 43
      In any case, Ukraine will not forget about the historical reunification of Russia and Crimea in the next 50 years. It seems to me that it is so obvious that it is strange how someone can expect something else. And after 50 years, Ukraine and Russia may already have no more in common than, for example, Russia and the Czech Republic (took for example, because they are also Slavs).
      1. +9
        3 February 2020 13: 14
        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        In any case, Ukraine will not forget about the historical reunification of Russia and Crimea in the next 50 years.

        We will not forget the burning of people in Odessa, the killing of civilians in the Donbass. The West pitted us with each other, two fraternal peoples. The West staged a coup in Ukraine and brought Russophobic politicians to power. As a result, we have what we have.
        1. +5
          3 February 2020 14: 26
          Let's not forget ... However, this does not apply to our rulers. I fully admit the appearance in the Kremlin of a "tagged 2.0". How could we imagine that in 1980 that in ten years our country will not exist? So who knows. These can forget.
        2. -5
          3 February 2020 19: 33
          The author overestimates the possibilities of various kinds of Bandera rabble. There are not so many of them, and in essence - they are jackals, not fighters. As soon as they smell fried, they will be the first to tear towards Polish, Romanian, etc. borders.
          1. -1
            3 February 2020 21: 39
            Quote: TermNachTER
            The author overestimates the possibilities of various kinds of Bandera rabble

            who killed so many civilians in the Donbass ??? !!! fool am
            1. -3
              3 February 2020 22: 00
              Mirnyak in Donbass was killed mainly by the army, there were not many different kinds of Banderasts (dobrobats) there. And there weren't many people in them. There are only loud names - the "Dung" regiment, the "Aydar" battalion, and the little people in them, hell and not a damn thing. And they were all funded by specific individuals. They will order these people to stop funding, stop it because they have something to lose. Tomorrow the army will be ordered to "kill" the Banderlog - they will do it with great pleasure. They do not consider them to be their brothers.
              1. 0
                4 February 2020 00: 01
                Quote: TermNachTER
                Mirnyak in the Donbass was killed mainly by the army,

                what at the moment this is the scum of Bandera, which supports the Nazi regime in Ukraine, established at the state level !!! fool I ask you to note that the vast majority of VNA residents do not really bother, the presence of the Nazi regime does not bother them much, the Bandera foundations of the army are not disturbing !!! negative
                1. -3
                  4 February 2020 17: 39
                  There are many mobilized in the army, where they were driven under the threat of prison. But there are not so many stoned Natsiks. Tomorrow the army will give the command to "kill" the Natsiks, they will carry out the order in the same way.
                  1. +1
                    4 February 2020 18: 39
                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    The army has many mobilized, where they were driven under the threat of prison

                    what Do you have the same approach to the Nazi German army ???? fool
                    1. -2
                      6 February 2020 19: 04
                      No different. Hitler simply cleaned the Reichswehr with harsher and faster methods. The current supreme commanders of the Banderland are not capable of this.
                      1. -1
                        2 November 2022 15: 04
                        The current supreme commanders of Banderland are not capable of this.
                        Do you also think now? It looks like Gerasimov and Shoigu have read your comments.
                  2. -1
                    2 November 2022 15: 03
                    There are many mobilized in the army, where they were driven under the threat of prison. But there are not so many stoned Natsiks. Tomorrow the army will give the command to "kill" the Natsiks, they will carry out the order in the same way.

                    Or maybe it was you who suggested to the president his phrase about "taking power into your own hands," which he told the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
          2. -1
            2 November 2022 15: 02
            As soon as they smell fried, they will be the first to rush towards Polish, Romanian, etc. borders.

            It wasn't you, by any chance, who planned the CBO? Somehow write everything in Shoiguv style
      2. +1
        3 February 2020 15: 21
        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        In any case, Ukraine will not forget about the historical reunion Russia and Crimea in the next 50 years. It seems to me so obvious that it is strange how someone can expect something else. And after 50 years, Ukraine and Russia may already have no more in common than, for example, Russia and the Czech Republic (took for example, because they are also Slavs).

        ===
        why only for 50 years? Poles have been holding grudges for hundreds of years. the Balts are about a hundred soon, and the Asian republics are also repeating about oppression and deprivation.
        1. -1
          6 February 2020 19: 09
          Those who are not "stubborn" reacted to the departure of the Crimea and Donbass, absolutely calmly. It's just that now going on vacation to Crimea has become a little more difficult and more expensive. And so, the queues at Perekop and Chongar, this summer, clearly demonstrate the attitude of normal people to this problem. If we had harbored a grudge, we would not have gone. There is enough Black Sea coast - from Skadovsk and as far as Zatoka.
    3. -7
      3 February 2020 11: 13
      Quote: 52 master
      until America switches to its foreign policy from Russia to someone else, occupied (Ukraine) will not change its policy. "do not judge strictly my opinion"

      Or until the policy of Russia becomes extremely harsh in relation to the elite of Ukraine ..
      An operation similar to "Crimea is ours" can be carried out in Ukraine too ... be it political will ..
      1. +2
        3 February 2020 13: 33
        Quote: Svarog
        Or until the policy of Russia becomes extremely harsh in relation to the elite of Ukraine ..

        Hurrah!!!! Found the culprit of all the troubles of Ukraine!

        despite the lack of personal acquaintance, communication and contacts, Gordon unequivocally accused the Russian official of constructing all Ukrainian troubles - from Ukraine’s loss of Crimea to the war in the Donbass:
        “For me, of course, Surkov, is the ideologist of all the misfortune that happened between Russia and Ukraine. The ideologist of the capture of the Crimea, the ideologist of the "plan of New Russia", the ideologist of the war in the Donbass.
      2. 0
        8 February 2020 21: 42
        Quote: Svarog
        An operation similar to "Crimea is Ours" can be carried out in Ukraine too ..

        for what purpose??? you don’t see that the hatskrayniki quite like the established neo-Nazi regime ?? !!! fool negative
    4. +2
      3 February 2020 15: 04
      A bit wrong. The United States needs to completely switch from foreign to domestic policy. And for this it is necessary that they have their own "Maidan" happened. The one they prepared for us.
    5. -1
      4 February 2020 23: 31
      Our position is the position of the "terpily" always from below.
      Negotiations with Lukashenka are coming soon, and as a result there will be a crazy dumping of energy resources for "passionate brothers Belarusians". Lukashenka will come home and file a new lawsuit against Russia ... and pay again in silence ...
      We pay all fraternal and non-fraternal coins. Ukraine will pay and will pay forever @
      Reply
      Quote
      A complaint
  2. +3
    3 February 2020 10: 18
    I would be banal, but the current government of Ukraine will not conduct an intelligible dialogue with the Russian Federation.
  3. +15
    3 February 2020 10: 24
    The fact is that they are at war with us, and we analyze everything and are friends. Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in Donbass (who have received passports of citizens of the Russian Federation) ... Why are the sanctions imposed by the Russian Federation against them not working? ... Why laws on criminal prosecution of persons harming Russia are not adopted? ... including the "fifth column"?
    1. +1
      3 February 2020 10: 29
      Well, how are Western partners against
    2. +10
      3 February 2020 10: 42
      Quote: Terenin
      Why are the sanctions "imposed" by the Russian Federation against them not working? ...

      The sanctions were worked out, but they were not introduced in the hope of a constructive "new Ukrainian president".
      1. +5
        3 February 2020 10: 57
        Quote: major147
        Quote: Terenin
        Why are the sanctions "imposed" by the Russian Federation against them not working? ...

        The sanctions were worked out, but they were not introduced in the hope of a constructive "new Ukrainian president".

        hi
        Hope should be with the people, and the government should have analytical services, departments, other structures and a clear position in the interests of this people.
        And we clearly heard the "positive" of the new henpecked mattress, who betrayed even his veteran grandfather. And, in the Kremlin ... they are analyzing again !? What? What other lawlessness Bandera need? Again, some profits of multinational companies on your mind !?
        1. +3
          3 February 2020 12: 35
          Quote: Terenin
          And the "positive" of the new henpecked mattress, who betrayed even his veteran grandfather, we clearly heard

    3. +1
      3 February 2020 11: 24
      If this happens, then the crisis will go not just into a dead corner, but at the peak without getting out of it. And then there will be unpredictable things ... Are everyone ready for war)))?
      1. +6
        3 February 2020 11: 29
        Those Russian-Ukrainians or Russian-speaking Ukrainians, or simply pro-Russian citizens or ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine, do not feel any support from Russia. This is about how Medvedev blurted out in Crimea, no money, but you hold on !!!!
        1. +7
          3 February 2020 11: 35
          Someone can say, go to Russia. And they themselves did not try to move (the problem of internal relocation is frightening with many nuances, and moving to another state, in general) And if people over 50 who need them in the Russian Federation ?. The situation is rotten, you can’t imagine worse (((((
        2. +1
          3 February 2020 21: 46
          Quote: Grandfather Crimea
          Those Russian-Ukrainians or Russian-speaking Ukrainians or simply pro-Russian citizens or, to the extreme, ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine do not feel any support from Russia.

          you are deeply mistaken !!! root cause - mayahskratsiyu !!! request it also includes the option to blame problems around everyone and the troubles resulting from them !! negative and the big question is, who will support people who, at the sight of you, seem to be with you, and in your absence, easily adapt to the opposite ideology !!! soldier
    4. -4
      3 February 2020 11: 49
      It's all about the property ... Guess whose property?
    5. -7
      3 February 2020 13: 56
      Quote: Terenin
      Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in the Donbass (who received passports of Russian citizens) ...

      Are you outraged by the US policy, but you hear yourself? Donbass, don’t tell me, this is the territory of Ukraine. What are the citizens of Russia doing on the territory of Ukraine where the fighting is taking place? Why did Russia allow its citizens to be in the dangerous territory of ANOTHER country? Probably so it was possible and convenient to make claims to Ukraine later. Citizens of Russia staying on the territory of Ukraine should first visit the Ukrainian Embassy in the Russian Federation, where they will be told that it’s dangerous to go to the b / d zone. In the Russian Foreign Ministry, all Russian citizens are obliged to explain that they’re traveling It’s dangerous in the territory of the neighboring country where the fighting is taking place. Citizens of the Russian Federation who find themselves in the territory of the neighboring state in the war zone of their own free will are responsible for their future fate. Plus, Ukraine has dual citizenship prohibited by law. Let Russian citizens go to Kiev, Chernihiv, Odessa, where they don’t shoot. But if they themselves, voluntarily do not want to live in Russia, but go to live with Russian passports to where the fighting goes, what is the fault of Ukraine in that they themselves voluntarily subjected Russian citizens are themselves at risk? This is some sort of international legal nonsense, with which you can easily draw a parallel with events in Gleiwitz request .
      1. +2
        3 February 2020 16: 59
        Quote: revnagan
        Donbass, like it or not, this is the territory of Ukraine

        This is not true. In Ukraine, in 2014, an armed coup d'etat took place. Citizens of Ukraine had every right to self-determination regarding the putschists. Accept them and build a new statehood, please have full right. Do not accept and build your statehood is your right. Residents of Crimea and Donbass self-determined regarding the withdrawal from the Maidan of Ukraine is their right. So Donbass is not the territory of Ukraine, it is the territory of the LPR and the DPR (including the part temporarily occupied by Ukraine).
        Quote: revnagan
        . What are the citizens of Russia doing on the territory of Ukraine where hostilities are taking place?

        Not just military operations, but the aggression of Maidan of Ukraine against the DPR and LPR with the commission of war crimes against civilians. For which all who commit them and all their accomplices will be liable without limitation.
        Quote: revnagan
        But if they themselves, voluntarily do not want to live in Russia, but go to live with Russian passports to where the fighting goes, what is the fault of Ukraine? Is it that Russian citizens themselves voluntarily put themselves at risk?

        Why pretend, to put it mildly, an unwise person? We are talking about residents of the DPR and LPR who received Russian passports. They live in the Donbass, they do not come anywhere and out of nowhere.
        PS It’s another matter that dependent on the West and increasingly weakening authorities of the Russian Federation, having given the former Ukraine to the West, decided to fight only for the Crimea. What created an absurd situation. The inhabitants of Crimea and Donbass are exactly the same, but some are part of Russia and others (according to the authorities of the Russian Federation) as part of the Maidan of Ukraine. Here it is necessary to decide if we recognize the right of Crimeans to self-determination, it is necessary to recognize the right of Donbass, if not (as you do) you need to give Crimea to Ukraine. Sitting on 2 chairs at the same time as the authorities of the Russian Federation are trying to make endlessly fail.
        1. -4
          3 February 2020 18: 12
          Quote: Odyssey
          This is not true. In Ukraine, in 2014, an armed coup d'etat took place. Citizens of Ukraine had every right to self-determination regarding the putschists. Accept them and build a new statehood, please have full right. Do not accept and build your statehood is your right.

          Where, in which international Laws is it written? Or did you personally decide so? Well, if you decided so, and someone else, then why would you consider your point of view to be the only true one?
          There is international law, and no one has the right to violate it just because it seems to him that it’s right. And the international right says: Donbass (ALL!) Is the territory of Ukraine.
          Quote: Odyssey
          We are talking about residents of the DPR and LPR who received Russian passports.

          If you lie in a small way, you will lose confidence in everything. Russian passports? And not Russian? Moreover, Russia provokes Ukrainian citizens to violate the Law by distributing their passports on the territory of Ukraine. After all, citizens of Ukraine cannot have dual citizenship. If you want another citizenship, please give up Ukrainian and go with God to your new homeland (otherwise you will get a "creeping occupation", as you have in Primorye with China).
          1. +1
            3 February 2020 19: 56
            Quote: revnagan
            There is international law, and no one has the right to violate it just because it seems to him that it’s right. And the international right says: Donbass (ALL!) Is the territory of Ukraine.

            You write just wild things. A brief educational program for you.
            1) International law regulates relations between states. It does not regulate relations within the state. And the right to secede from the rebels who seized power is in no way affected.
            2) International law simply reflects the balance of power between states. For example, if Nazi Germany would have won, there would have been a different "legal" international law. Or, under the USSR, its norms were interpreted one at a time, but now it is completely different. Now the United States is the world hegemon, so that what is beneficial to them is legal. For example, if the existence of Maidan Ukraine for some reason becomes unprofitable for them, tomorrow the "international community" at least recognizes all of Ukraine as part of the Russian Federation.
            Essentially, let’s say an armed coup d'état will happen in the United States, and, say, the US Communist Party will come to power. And in Texas, supporting legitimate authority, freedom and democracy do not submit to the coup and do not want to live in the socialist United States, but form the Texas Republic. Are their actions valid? Absolutely. But those who wanted to support the coup have the full right to remain in the United States. Texans want to join the socialist United States-please. But the US attempt to forcibly join Texas will become aggression.
            Quote: revnagan
            Having lied in a small way, you will lose confidence in everything. Russian passports? And not Russian?

            Is that all you found to find fault with? Kindergarten of some kind. Of course, Russian. It's just that in Russia the term "Russian" introduced by EBN in the 90s irritates most people. Almost everyone replaces it with the normal word-Russian.
            And then, judging by your answer, you perfectly understood that it was about the residents of Donbass. Why then lie about the "coming Russians"?
            1. -5
              4 February 2020 13: 58
              Quote: Odyssey
              You write just wild things.

              laughing Yes, you read your opus, there, yes, wild things. And everything is based on your fantasy and alternative history. Sorry, but this is not samizdat, and fiction is not appropriate. Before writing about the rebels, from which you should separate, you need to look several decades ago. And it turns out that all the "separatists" who now want to secede from the Russian Federation have the right to secede. For example, why did they do this to Chechnya? There was a "mutiny" in Moscow, the USSR collapsed, and tanks shot at the White House. Power was seized democrats. Separate, who wants to, right? And why with Russia - "no", and with Ukraine "yes"? You have painted everything so beautifully in your fantasies - the matter is small. Bring the Laws on which your fantasies are based. Specifically: Law No. then from the number ... this allows one to separate from the rebels. No?
              Quote: Odyssey
              Why then lie about the "coming Russians"?

              What is the lie? In Donbass, citizens of Ukraine. Donbass-Ukraine. Citizens of Russia there suddenly cannot appear. Dual citizenship in Ukraine is prohibited by law. Withdrawal-come in large numbers without permission. Who is to blame for them now? This way an ethnic Chinese from Russia will receive a Chinese passport, will suffer (from the hands of the police, for example), and China will receive the right to defend its citizens by force on the territory of the Russian Federation? So, what? It will be right? There is nothing to "trick" and to cast a shadow over the fence.
              1. +2
                4 February 2020 20: 26
                Quote: revnagan
                Separate, who wants to, right? And why with Russia - "no", and with Ukraine "yes"?

                The trouble is not that you don’t know simple things, the trouble is that you don't want to know them . I’ll try for the last time, it’s impossible to convince you, of course, because of your reticence, but it’s useful even for you to know the reality.
                1) Logic is one for all. And for Russia and Ukraine and Tanzania
                2) The collapse of the USSR and the shooting of the White House are different processes that occurred in different countries and at different times.
                3) The collapse of the USSR is a rather unique process because it was a "revolution from above", it was liquidated by its own power. Therefore, there was no question of formal legality in this case, however, of course, its collapse did not correspond to Soviet laws. And, of course, in this case, after the termination of the previous statehood, people had every right to self-determine with respect to the new states. And they did it. The disintegration went along the most different borders, republics, autonomous republics, regions, just territories.
                4) The shooting of the Supreme Council - a coup in the Russian Federation. The shape is similar to Maidan. Of course, all regions of the Russian Federation had every right to self-determination regarding him.
                5) Chechnya is the exact opposite of Donbass, and not its counterpart. Dudaev and his people actively supported both the 1991 coup (they actually took power during the GKChP acting against the Soviet power in the Chechen Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic) and the 1993 coup. Military operations there began in December 1994 after the opposition forces lost to Dudaev (which appeared after he seized sole power). An analogue of the Donbass would be if in 1993 some region of Russia did not obey Yeltsin and remained faithful to the legitimate authority of the Supreme Council. An analogue of Chechnya is if now any region that supported the Maidan (for example, Lviv) would have declared its withdrawal from the already maidan Ukraine. That would be pure separatism, and a complete analogue to Chechnya.
                Quote: revnagan
                Bring the Laws on which your fantasies are based. Specifically: Law No. is such from the number ... this allows this to be separated from the rebels. Is it not?

                Just amazing. How can rebellion be spelled out in the law? Law that is the law, so that there is no a priori rebellion in it. Yes, even if you are three times Maydan’s, but how can you not know such things!
                Once again - in any Constitution of any state, a priori, the need for legality of actions to change power is spelled out. In any coup / revolution, the former statehood and its laws are destroyed. The new revolutionary power creates its own new rules and laws. Residents of the country have every right to decide on these new authorities. No one has the right to force anyone to submit to the power of the rebels by force.
                1. -4
                  4 February 2020 21: 50
                  I understand you. You consider your opinion to be the only correct one and are trying to impose it on everyone who disagrees. This is due to the fact that Russia intends to grow in land at the expense of its neighbors (including in the Donbass) in the medium term. Russia (but bad for Ukraine), you, as a patriot of your country, claim that everything is going right, but since it harms the interests of my country, I consider your opinion to be incorrect, biased, biased and unfounded. Moreover, you have not answered. By what law does Russia give away its citizenship to the citizens of a neighboring state, cynically and defiantly trampling on its legislation? As for the logic you rely on, relations between states are governed by international law, not logic, and not "I think it is right / wrong." call logic for help, then call the maydaun a rebellion and recognize the government that he brought to power-legal (and this is exactly what your leadership did country) ... Where is the logic? What is the power of the rebels, what are you about? Do you disagree with your president, who called the power of Ukraine "the best choice of the UKRAINIAN PEOPLE," and Poroshenko, "our Ukrainian partner"?
                  1. +2
                    4 February 2020 22: 28
                    Quote: revnagan
                    Since this is good for Russia (but bad for Ukraine), you, as a patriot of your country, say that everything is happening right.

                    I am not a patriot of the oligarchic RF, but a patriot of the USSR. But this is not the case. I argue that the separation of Donbass is legitimate, not because I am someone else's patriot, but because it really is. The only one who is legitimate to resolve this issue is the people of Donbass, they want to live after the coup of 2014 as part of Ukraine, please. No, then let them be independent.
                    Quote: revnagan
                    As for the logic that you rest on, in relations between states they are guided by international law

                    Again twenty-five. International law speaks of relations between states. The illegal seizure of power is not supported or regulated by any international relations. And this "legislation" is simply a reflection of the right of the mighty. For example, tell the United States or Israel about this "legislation", so they will laugh ....
                    Quote: revnagan
                    Where is the logic? What is the power of the rebels, what are you talking about? Do you disagree with your president, who called the power of Ukraine "the best choice of the UKRAINIAN PEOPLE", and Poroshenko - "our Ukrainian partner"?

                    Yes, here you are right. There is no logic. And indeed, speaking of the position of the Russian authorities, issuing passports is illegal. First, it was necessary to recognize the DPR, LPR, then if the authorities of the DPR, LPR would be asked to issue passports, issue them. The position of the authorities of the Russian Federation is absurd, and of course I do not agree with it. This position leads the Russian Federation to defeat.
                    Quote: revnagan
                    .This is due to the fact that in the medium term, Russia intends to grow lands at the expense of its neighbors (including in the Donbass)

                    Russia is not up to fat, I would be living. All post-Soviet republics face the same problems - they are eating up the Soviet legacy and losing state independence. If the Russian Federation does not change its socio-economic policy, the same sad fate awaits as Ukraine. The Ukrainian crisis is her defeat. Ukraine lost its statehood and became a territory controlled by the West. The fact that they were able to temporarily recapture the Crimea does not compensate for this
                    1. -5
                      4 February 2020 22: 57
                      Quote: Odyssey
                      The unlawful seizure of power by any international relations is not supported or regulated.

                      And the world community (including Russia) believes that the post-Maidan authorities are completely legal. And who is right? You or the world community (including Russia)? And let's face it: who are you (and what is the price your opinion) and who disagrees with you and the price of their opinion. So everything is within the framework of the Law (on the part of Ukraine), and Russia violates this Law. However, I must admit that there is common sense in your Wishlist, especially in the last two paragraphs. It’s especially gratifying that you yourself understand that Crimea is temporary. It’s just that the agony of Russia dragged on, delayed by the Way but nothing lasts forever under the moon.
          2. +1
            3 February 2020 20: 13
            Quote: revnagan
            Moreover, Russia provokes Ukrainian citizens to violate the Law by distributing their passports in Ukraine. Indeed, Ukrainian citizens cannot have dual citizenship

            What a strange logic. Look at the official statistics of Maidan Ukraine: millions of people are fleeing from it literally as fast as they can. And the very first "Peach Ukrainians". Every second of the Maidan elites has double or even triple (like Kolomoisky) citizenship. I'm not talking about the countless crowds of Maidan Ukrainians who are ready to work as whores in Poland or wash toilets there for the longed-for right to obtain EU citizenship and forget about "nenki" forever and ever. But you are not making claims to these citizens of Maidan Ukraine who have dual citizenship, but to Russia, which is granting its citizenship to the inhabitants of the LPR and DPR, which have nothing to do with Maidan Ukraine.
            Quote: revnagan
            If you want another citizenship, please refuse Ukrainian and go to God with your new homeland

            Are you completely stunned? Is it for some reason that the residents of Donbass need to go somewhere? The requirements for Maidan Ukraine are simple
            1) Leave the occupied part of Donbass.
            2) Recognize the right of residents of the Crimea and Donbass to self-determination.
            3) To extradite all war criminals responsible for the killings of civilians in Donbass.
            4) Compensate for all material damage caused to the Donbass during the aggression.
            After that, Maidan Ukraine will be completely free in its desires. If the desires of the Ukrainians are consistent with the ideals of the Maidan, that is, to be a slave to the Western master, then so be it. Such is their fate and take away the right to be a slave from them, no one has the right.
            1. -5
              4 February 2020 14: 11
              Quote: Odyssey
              But you are not making claims against these dual citizens of the Maidan of Ukraine

              Here we discuss the problems of Donbass and Russia, irresponsibly distributing their passports to citizens of a neighboring state on its territory, thereby openly violating the Law of this state on its territory. There will be an article about Poland, and how Ukrainians with a Polish passport suffered from APU in the territories, ready to join Poland, and we'll talk.
              Quote: Odyssey
              The requirements for Maidan Ukraine are simple

              Only the winner can demand anything. And so far, the LDNR has only 1/3 of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions of Ukraine and they hold on only due to the "suction" from the Russian Federation.
              Self-determination is not a question. Russia recognizes the right of Chechnya to self-determination, as well as all national minorities on its territory, and Ukraine is already running.
              I support paragraph 3 without any reservations.
              Point 4 is unacceptable in general. Absolutely. It is possible to restore the national economy destroyed with the help of Russia in 1/3 of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions only as part of Ukraine. So you can now consider yourself free in your desires, the flag is in your hands and forward. to fulfill your Wishlist in your right mind - this is voluntary slavery.
              1. -1
                4 February 2020 22: 55
                Quote: revnagan
                There will be an article about Poland, and about how Ukrainians with a Polish passport suffered from the Armed Forces in the territories ready to join Poland, and we'll talk about it.

                Look at your strange logic. You recognize the Maidan coup and are unhappy with dual citizenship. They write to you, look at your power, there are people with dual citizenship. Look at your (Maydan) people, they have a different citizenship, this is the only national idea of ​​a new Ukraine. You say, we are not discussing this ... But you are dissatisfied with the acquisition of Russian citizenship by the residents of Donbass who do not recognize the Maidan Ukraine at all. And write, they violate the laws of Ukraine. Which Ukraine? For them, it simply does not exist. They do not want to live in it. Therefore, they line up in kilometer-long queues to obtain the coveted Russian citizenship.
                And your people do not want to live in Maidan Ukraine. But instead of trying to eliminate that hell on earth that you have built, you want to forcefully drive into it even those who have nothing to do with Maidan Ukraine.
                Quote: revnagan
                Only the winner can demand anything. And so far, the LDNR has only 1/3 of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions of Ukraine and they hold on only due to the "suction" from the Russian Federation.

                I wrote about law and justice, and you write about "realpolitik". From the point of view of law and justice, these are the requirements for the new Ukraine, to leave Donbass alone and compensate for the damage. Once again, no rights to force there are no people to obey the Maidan rebel.
                And from the point of view of realpolitiks you are right. The Russian authorities themselves are dependent on the West, they themselves are very weak, so they did not dare to help Donbass. Say thanks to Putin and K. Maidan Ukraine kills children, old people, women, has arranged social genocide. You can rejoice.
                1. -7
                  5 February 2020 11: 19
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  Look at your strange logic. You recognize the Maidan coup

                  Logic is never strange - it either exists or it is not. The Maidan coup is not recognized by me, but by the entire "world community (including Russia). It means it is legal. It means that everything that is against the coup is illegal. Logic, after all, you cannot trample against it. And it is not the rebels who are trying to someone for what. then force, and the LEGAL AUTHORITY of Ukraine. So your speculations crumble to dust.
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  And you are dissatisfied with obtaining Russian citizenship by residents of Donbass who do not recognize Maydan Ukraine at all.

                  You see, the oligarchs of Ukraine who have double-triple citizenship do not preach the separation of their inheritance from the territory of Ukraine and their accession to the territory of, say, Israel, but they sit quietly and peacefully and rob Ukraine under the law, alas. Brainless power in Ukraine does not And when normal adequate people come to power, Ukraine itself and its Crimea and the Donbass will come in handy. Therefore, it will be fair: if you received a Russian passport in Ukraine, go to your new Homeland, or sit quietly like Kolomoisha and don’t provoke races Hell of Ukraine and do not try to tear off a piece of Ukraine in order to take it as a dowry to the new Ukraine syuzerenu.Na you nothing else belongs to ...
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  But instead of trying to eliminate that hell on earth that you have built, you want to forcefully drive into it even those who have nothing to do with Maidan Ukraine.

                  You make a lot of mistakes in your statement, due to your ignorance of the situation ("I see it that way." all this is organized, paid for and checked by the forces of the collective West, behind which is America specifically. And in this Sabbath only forces can resist, at least not weaker. And not the people, in fact, an unorganized mass, which has nothing to oppose the might of the West. -selling politicians are one thing, but the state is another. Therefore, the loss of its territories by Ukraine is bad. Everything that is bad for Ukraine is globally bad. The reasons for the losses do not interest me. Bad, that's all. Once again I explain, sane politicians will come, And you know, sometimes you get the impression that Russia, having estimated that in the confrontation with the global West in Ukraine, it has no chances, decided: let it be at least so, we will pick up and join the pieces of Ukraine that he will fall off her. called the grief and difficulties of Ukraine. But I probably forgot that you can't build your happiness on someone else's misfortune. Yes, I want to remind you, the modern Russian Federation is not the USSR. There is capitalism, like in Ukraine. Ukrainian capitalists, having suffered losses in a clash with the Russian ones, will start their replenish at my expense. Why do I need this? Therefore, I am against the expansion of the Russian Federation into Ukrainian territories.
          3. +4
            3 February 2020 21: 54
            Quote: revnagan
            Where, in which international laws is this written?

            finally, they have justified their coup with the right of the people to revolt (there is such a thing in "international jurisprudence") ... however, they forgot that it is not the current that they have such a right !!! wink soldier
        2. -1
          2 November 2022 15: 07
          And now it's even funnier. There are territories that officially - according to our laws - are Russia, but they have never been part of it and those living there did not speak out in any way about joining Russia o_O
      2. -1
        3 February 2020 18: 56
        He "scribbled" like my grandson. And he still goes to kindergarten.
      3. +2
        3 February 2020 20: 18
        Well, hello to Pan, a supporter of Slavik Kovtun winked He asks himself a question, as if from an opponent, and he answers him ardently and angrily ...

        Quote: revnagan
        Are you outraged by US politics, but do you hear yourself?

        Specify where, in my text, I was outraged by US policy?
        By the way, I don’t consider it at all No. This is pure international racketeering and robbery. Do not hesitate, soon you will see this Yes

        Quote: revnagan
        What are Russian citizens doing on the territory of Ukraine where hostilities are taking place?

        And, is there anything that Russian citizens were born and living in the seventh generation? But, what are foreign armed bandits doing on the side of the Armed Forces in the civil conflict zone?

        Quote: revnagan
        Plus, in Ukraine, dual citizenship is prohibited by law.

        Oh how belay And, you talked about this to the ruling elite and the oligarchy of Ukraine? If SHO, then the list of oligarchy and staff of the presidential administration of Ukraine with dual citizenship in the public domain fellow And, they chali on
        prohibited by law


        Quote: revnagan
        This is some kind of international legal nonsense with which you can easily draw a parallel with the events in Gleivitz

        You can tell about Gleiwitz to the organizers of "peaceful students", "onizhedeti", etc. who committed, by their crimes, this very international legal nonsense, having committed a coup d'etat in Ukraine in February 2014.
        1. -7
          4 February 2020 14: 19
          Quote: Terenin
          And, is there anything that there are citizens of Russia born and living in the seventh generation?

          Are you raving? How can they be citizens of Russia, born in the USSR and living in Ukraine? No, you are definitely raving.
          Quote: Terenin
          But, what are the foreign armed bandits on the side of the Armed Forces doing in the civil conflict zone?

          And they were invited here by the Ukrainian government, the legitimacy of which was officially recognized, including by the Russian leadership.
          Quote: Terenin
          Oh, like A, did you talk about this to the ruling elite and the oligarchy of Ukraine?

          Oh, how are we now discussing the ruling elite and the oligarchs or the situation with the unlawful issuance of passports by Russia to Ukrainian citizens in the Donbass?
          Quote: Terenin
          You can tell about Gleiwitz to the organizers of "peaceful students", "onizhedeti", etc. who committed, by their crimes, this very international legal nonsense, having committed a coup d'etat in Ukraine in February 2014.

          Yeah, that is, now you decided that you can be like "they", right? But then how are you better? And so brand them, so brand them wink .
          1. +4
            5 February 2020 22: 58
            Quote: revnagan
            Yeah, that is, now you decided that you can be like "they", right? But then how are you better? And so brand them, so brand them

            Again, Revnagan is talking to himself ... winked
            You, Russian in Ukrainian, are told 404 times that you had a Bandera coup. As a result, the inhabitants of Crimea returned to Russia. Donbass, while de jure Ukrainian, and de facto pro-Russian.
            Continue and further rely on the Russian liberal "fifth column", especially in lawsuits, and exercise in the Anglo-Saxon international "jurisprudence", which they also spit on, if something does not correspond to their interests.
            Yes, and continue to wait for the appearance of adequate leaders. Us what !? request They, after Kravchuk, are all "more adequate" ...
            And, if you climb another, not yours, Donbass, then Ilovaisky and Debaltsovsky "boilers" will seem to you - paradise! Do not No.
            1. -7
              6 February 2020 18: 47
              Quote: Terenin
              And, if you climb another, not yours, Donbass, then Ilovaisky and Debaltsovsky "boilers" will seem to you - paradise!

              On our land, we ourselves will decide what, when and how to do it. Yes, and our army is far from the army of Old Man Makhno of 2014. So you can advise those who need your stupid advice, but I
              Quote: Terenin
              Do not
              .
              1. +5
                6 February 2020 19: 24
                Quote: revnagan
                Quote: Terenin
                And, if you climb another, not yours, Donbass, then Ilovaisky and Debaltsovsky "boilers" will seem to you - paradise!

                On our land, we ourselves will decide what, when and how to do it. Yes, and our army is far from the army of Old Man Makhno of 2014. So you can advise those who need your stupid advice, but I
                Quote: Terenin
                Do not
                .

                You have already "decided" on your own land, having shot your people on the Maidan, burned them alive in a fire in Odessa and now destroying thousands in Donbass.
                I look, very sensible ...
                1. -8
                  6 February 2020 19: 38
                  Quote: Terenin
                  I look, very sensible ...

                  It is what it is laughing And envy is a bad feeling.
                  Quote: Terenin
                  You have already "decided" on your own land, having shot your people on the Maidan, burned them alive in a fire in Odessa and now destroying thousands in Donbass.

                  Believe it or not, "we" were not present anywhere from the places you listed. "We" were on the bus that went to the "anti-Maidan". We arrived at 05:00 in the morning to go to Kiev, and there important uncles are already waiting for us, who say They say, your help is not needed. Like, the President said that they will cope on their own. Well, they did it. But only Ukraine and all its resources are needed by us ourselves, and robbing it under the slogans of "the Russian world" and "protection from Bandera" is not Why is it that none of the organizers of the Donbass genocide suffered, and resources, territories and equipment flowed from Ukraine ... By the way, where was Russia with its "Russian world" when the events you listed took place? For example, in the same Odessa ? In Mariupol? Why did Bandera have both weapons and resources, and world support? Although they had them, ugh, and grind them. But they were all at the right time in the right place. And those who were against-their majority-dispersed, unarmed and unorganized. "Let them just try!" And what? So don't "la-la". Russian oligarchs rob the oligarchs of Ukraine under stories about justice and the Russian world. And if this did not affect ordinary people ... yes, rob, we do not feel sorry for them. And since they shift all their losses onto us, sorry, we will not be able to put up with such a Russian policy.
                  1. +3
                    6 February 2020 21: 38
                    Quote: revnagan
                    We need Ukraine and all its resources ourselves, and we don't need to plunder it under the slogans of "Russian world" and "protection from Bandera

                    It will be sold out before you have time to blink. "Their".

                    My condolences, colleague, but now you have something that we already drove in the 90s. And the end-edge of this is somehow not visible ... no?

                    Quote: revnagan
                    Why did Bandera have both weapons and resources, and world support?

                    Money, buddy. Big money. And big politics. Ukraine was needed as a torpedo, but, as we see, it did not work out. And now she, in general, is not really needed ...

                    Once again, my condolences. Sincere.
                    1. -3
                      7 February 2020 09: 43
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      Ukraine was needed as a torpedo, but, as we see, it did not work out.

                      It hasn’t happened yet. Ukraine has simply turned from a "torpedo" into a "mine". It has not become less dangerous for Russia. At the right time, it will work. And condolences will be useful to all of us.
                      1. 0
                        7 February 2020 10: 04
                        Quote: revnagan
                        Ukraine has simply turned from a "torpedo" into a "mine". It did not become less dangerous for Russia. At the right time, it will work

                        Well, as they say - God forbid our calves, let’s eat the wolf.

                        Quote: revnagan
                        And condolences come in handy to us all

                        While they are suitable only for you. Buddy request
            2. -1
              2 November 2022 15: 10
              And, if you climb another Donbass, which is no longer yours, then the Ilovaisky and Debaltsovsky "boilers" will seem to you - paradise
              Eh, Izyum, "regroupings", "goodwill gestures" ... It seems that your comments were read at the General Staff when they dreamed of boilers
              1. +3
                2 November 2022 16: 46
                Quote from ZuekRek
                And, if you climb another Donbass, which is no longer yours, then the Ilovaisky and Debaltsovsky "boilers" will seem to you - paradise
                Eh, Izyum, "regroupings", "goodwill gestures" ... It seems that your comments were read at the General Staff when they dreamed of boilers

                We join four subjects a year. And it's not evening yet...
                You can visit Odessa for the last time.
                1. -1
                  2 November 2022 16: 55
                  Well, let's be honest - even the attached one has not yet been recaptured (even though they made it so that "there are no analogues in the world"). And from the Ukrainian cities, I was only in Lvov, Ivano-Frankivsk, Uzhgorod and other small towns of Transcarpathia, when I wrote a dissertation about the Russian movement in Galicia. Odessa - no, not mine.
                  But so be it - I will return to this comment in a year (God willing) - you have become even more optimistic :). Let's see how it will be in reality
                  1. +3
                    2 November 2022 17: 24
                    Quote from ZuekRek
                    Well, let's be honest - even the attached one has not yet been recaptured (even though they made it so that "there are no analogues in the world").

                    Yes, there are no analogues. Firstly, because your, under the control of NATO, artillery preparation for the Donbass began on February 17, and according to the plan, it was supposed to last two weeks and an offensive. But, they got a counter ...

                    Quote from ZuekRek
                    when he wrote a dissertation about the Russian movement in Galicia.
                    What was the full name of the topic, where did they defend themselves and who was the scientific instructor? I hope not Farion?

                    Quote from ZuekRek
                    But so be it - I will return to this comment in a year (God willing)
                    Don't hesitate, I always meet everyone Yes

                    Quote from ZuekRek
                    You have become even more optimistic :).
                    I see no reason for pessimism.

                    Quote from ZuekRek
                    Let's see how it will be in reality
                    Russia has at least woken up from its liberal-democratic slumber...
                    By the way, the Ukrainian authorities are enemy number two for us, and the first one is home-grown pro-Western liberals.
                    1. -1
                      2 November 2022 17: 56
                      Yes, there are no analogues. Firstly, because your, under the control of NATO, artillery preparation for the Donbass began on February 17, and according to the plan, it was supposed to last two weeks and an offensive. But, they got a counter ...

                      I'm actually from Russia (https://vk.com/peter.kudinov - if in St. Petersburg or Moscow - we can meet (without assault, of course - so, for verification. One here already expressed doubts that I'm real. But, I should salute - I gave the lost 1 rubles at the meeting. But this is the only example - the rest "merge" like poop). only Soviet junk was in the hands of the armored vehicles, and even that did not go all, and the west began deliveries only when it became clear that we would not take Kyiv in 000 days. And in a week too. so read Russia, when we had 3 troops ready for battle next to us? defending side. op watch leave.
                      What was the full name of the topic, where did they defend themselves and who was the scientific instructor? I hope not Farion?

                      Should was "Russian movement in Galicia from the end of the 19th century until 1914." I collected the material, but since it was "for the soul" - I had to leave it: a wedding, a mortgage - I had to work a lot.
                      Russia has at least woken up from its liberal-democratic slumber...

                      How did she wake up? Those who were in power remained :) And it is difficult to call Russia "liberal" when the basis of the economy is the state. companies and there are no liberal freedoms at all. So I didn’t wake up, but the totalitarian-authoritarian lethargic dream is sinking deeper and deeper...
                      1. +3
                        2 November 2022 18: 21
                        Quote from ZuekRek
                        And about "just a couple of days ahead" - I would ask you.
                        Where did I write this?

                        Quote from ZuekRek
                        traffic in Galicia from the end 19th...
                        I understood that it was for the soul winked

                        Quote from ZuekRek
                        when it became clear that we would not take Kyiv in 3 days. And for a week too.
                        Who and when from official sources of power stated that Russia needs to capture at least some of us. point of Ukraine?
                        We are at war with NATO mercenaries coming out-Bandarovtsy and we will continue until we destroy them.
                        Quote from ZuekRek
                        when the basis of the economy is the state. companies
                        If that were the case...
                        Quote from ZuekRek
                        So I didn’t wake up, but the totalitarian-authoritarian lethargic dream is sinking deeper and deeper...
                        Many believe that Russia is falling asleep... for more than one hundred years and will never fall asleep.
                        What do you propose, give everything back and repent? Already heard. Or are you just criticizing?
                      2. -1
                        2 November 2022 19: 29
                        your NATO-led artillery preparation for the Donbass began on February 17, and according to the plan, it was supposed to last two weeks and an offensive. But, they got a counter ...
                        Here are your words. Well, not "a couple of days", but "a couple of weeks". Do you REALLY think that the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of February 24.02.2022, 150 COULD conduct offensive operations on the defensive lines of the LDNR, when there was at least 000 Russian Armed Forces on the border with the LDNR (and as it turned out later in Belarus)?
                        I understood that it was for the soul
                        Yes, "not banal" and "forgotten" history is my love and hobby. I fell in love with Galicia (more precisely, the Principality of Galicia-Volyn) when I was preparing a report at school on the topic of the Tatar-Mongols and Rus'. Everyone mostly wrote about Alexander Nevsky, of course, and I wrote about Daniil Galitsky. It was difficult to find information in Chita, but through acquaintances and relatives, we managed to pick up interesting materials. I was first awarded, and then canceled my trip to a regional conference - it turned out that I was "radical" in my conclusions. Then there was Alexander Dukhnovich, I was struck by the fact that not Ukrainians live in Transcarpathia, but Rusins ​​(these are his words: I was a Rusyn, I am, and I will be, / I was born a Rusyn, / I will not forget my honest family, /
                        I will remain his son; / Rusyn was my father, mother, / The whole Russian homeland, / Rusyn sisters and brothers / And a wide squad; / https://rue.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Rusin_was,_єsm,_and_will be). HOW among the Poles, Ukrainians, Magyars they managed to preserve their consciousness as Russian (then they said so) and the Orthodox faith (until now, Transcarpathia is our Orthodox, and Galicia is Greek Catholics). And only then there was a Russian movement in Galicia, an absolutely phenomenal uprising from the ashes and the awareness of being Russian ... well, and the destruction of the Russian movement by the occupation administration of the Russian tsar in the First World War ...
                        Who and when from official sources of power stated that Russia needs to capture at least some of us. point of Ukraine?
                        Do you still believe what they say? Check out these videos (yes, "liberal-enemy", but they didn't add anything of their own - so please make an effort): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf9GbgJRHDw
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw9f36IBAfU
                        I respect principled people - I may not agree with them, but I respect them. I respect those who admit their mistakes - you need to be courageous to do this. But those who say one thing, then the second, and act in a third way, I do not respect. The Chita courtyard life also forced them to cease to respect such people. Therefore, "words" - you can learn the price of words from these two videos. In our time, with our political leadership, words mean nothing.
                        If that were the case...
                        According to the IMF in 2016 - the share of state. sector was 33%, according to foreign rating agencies at the same time - 40-50%, according to FAS - 70%. I think that the state, directly or through the companies it owns, can dispose of up to 70% of the total capital today, because foreign and "pseudo-foreign" was all washed up or frozen. And purely "Russian private" capital is very small.
                        Many believe that Russia is falling asleep... for more than one hundred years and will never fall asleep. What do you propose, give everything back and repent? Already heard. Or are you just criticizing?

                        Who thinks so? Give names. If you are talking about short-term proposals, then: 1. Refuse the nonsense in the form of "Russians and Ukrainians are one people." Everything has already gone so far that we can’t get back together. We have made Ukrainians the second Poles in relation to us. 2. Set clear goals, without all these vague "denazification", "demilitarization" - to occupy the entire territory? Go to the border of the Dnieper? Conditions for Ukraine, as an independent state, or will we leave 4 regions in the west and let them do what they want, and we will return the rest of the territories only after our conditions are met? But it's all emergency. Long-term actions are much more important. From history, I realized with surprise and regret that starting from Peter 1 (the fact that before Peter 1 there was a "dream" is a myth. I strongly advise Chernikova's monograph "Europeanization of Russia in the second half of the XV-XVII centuries"), we have observed the so-called cyclical modernization. We were scammed "by soup" at the beginning of the Northern War - they made one of the best armies in Europe and industry, because. nowhere without her. And... fell asleep. Then they waited for the Crimean War - they got it "by the soup" - they carried out reforms, abolished serfdom. And... fell asleep. Then they got "by cabbage soup" in the Russian-Japanese and Stolypin began reforms. But, when it came to the next important milestone, what? right - fell asleep. Soviet modernization? In the late 30s - we are the second largest economy in the world! Launched a man into space and? fell asleep... we were overtaken by Japan, then oil prices collapsed and... And with such "modernization spasms" we periodically swim to the surface to exhale and... falling asleep slowly sink again. But such "spasms" are costly for the people. And we have less human capital now than in the time of Peter or industrialization. Therefore, in the long term, we need to break out of this rut ​​in which we (and this was also one of the possible topics of my failed dissertation) fell in love with the civilizational choice of the times of Alexander Nevsky (after all, it was he who "destroyed" veche law in the North-Eastern Rus' - because people's councils were for the fight against the Tatar-Mongols - and destroyed people's democracy), then confirmed at the Zemsky Sobor, when the first of the Romanovs was elected. The second case - the Zemsky Sobor - predetermined the "track" of development ("cyclical modernization", not progressive development), in which we are now. And this should be the main goal of long-term work.
    6. 0
      3 February 2020 14: 21
      Quote: Terenin
      Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in Donbass (who have received passports of citizens of the Russian Federation) ... Why don't the sanctions imposed by the Russian Federation against them work? ...
      This is what! Take care of your surprise until the moment the amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation are adopted, when it turns out that the amendments aimed at increasing welfare do not work, and the amendments aimed at keeping the same people with the power leverage work great.
    7. +1
      3 February 2020 15: 22
      Moreover, I personally saw a healthy forehead of 35-40 years old with a tattoo of the "Azov" battalion in May 2019 in SEVASTOPOL !!! And you say.
    8. +1
      8 February 2020 21: 44
      Quote: Terenin
      The fact is that they are at war with us, and we analyze everything and are friends. Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in Donbass (who have received passports of citizens of the Russian Federation) ... Why are the sanctions imposed by the Russian Federation against them not working? ... Why laws on criminal prosecution of persons harming Russia are not adopted? ... including the "fifth column"?

      all because, unfortunately, Uncle Vova considers the inhabitants of VNA to be fraternal people !!! negative
      1. +2
        8 February 2020 22: 04
        Quote: Nikolai Grek
        Quote: Terenin
        The fact is that they are at war with us, and we analyze everything and are friends. Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in Donbass (who have received passports of citizens of the Russian Federation) ... Why are the sanctions imposed by the Russian Federation against them not working? ... Why laws on criminal prosecution of persons harming Russia are not adopted? ... including the "fifth column"?

        all because, unfortunately, Uncle Vova considers the inhabitants of VNA to be fraternal people !!! negative

        Yes, something he stalled with evil spirits in power nenki negative
        1. 0
          8 February 2020 22: 13
          Quote: Terenin
          Yes, something he stalled with evil spirits in power nenki

          unfortunately, the matter is not in power ... the point is the vast majority of spineless inhabitants vna !!! negative at the same time, he still considers them brothers, as a result of which he does not undertake any radical economic measures against Ukraine, so as not to worsen the life of a "simple innocent people" !!! request negative negative
          1. +2
            8 February 2020 22: 27
            Quote: Nikolai Grek
            Quote: Terenin
            Yes, something he stalled with evil spirits in power nenki

            unfortunately, the matter is not in power ... the point is the vast majority of spineless inhabitants vna !!! negative at the same time, he still considers them brothers, as a result of which he does not undertake any radical economic measures against Ukraine, so as not to worsen the life of a "simple innocent people" !!! request negative negative

            Oh, the GDP with this tolerance will be played out. Now, he dismissed the pro-Western liberal government and was left without cover ...
            1. +1
              9 February 2020 00: 17
              Quote: Terenin
              Oh, the GDP with this tolerance will be played out.

              hardly ... no one has canceled the HSP !!! wassat and it can work in the most unusual way at the right time !! laughing
  4. +10
    3 February 2020 10: 28
    For all the fairly rich invariance of possible events
    The author himself, interestingly, understood what he wrote?)))
    1. DRM
      +1
      5 February 2020 15: 49
      Quote: Hwostatij
      For all the fairly rich invariance of possible events
      The author himself, interestingly, understood what he wrote?)))

      The author is not a reader, the author is a writer.
  5. +2
    3 February 2020 10: 33
    Gently pulling the inevitable Russia drives the situevina into an unfavorable outcome! For 5 years, the fascists armed themselves and organized themselves, the hot phase of the future clash will be much bloodier and more expensive than in the 14th year. Delay with a cardinal decision only exacerbates. It will not be better.
    1. +4
      3 February 2020 10: 43
      Quote: 113262
      Gently pulling the inevitable

      And what to do?
    2. ANB
      +3
      3 February 2020 10: 48
      What offer? Get in first yourself?
      This is unacceptable. Apart from the unknown reaction from the United States, at least in a guerrilla war, losses are always prohibitive.
      1. +2
        3 February 2020 12: 40
        Voooot! And then what for these little articles? Commissars in a 14 shirt on his chest tore the maximum-year-and-a-half-and-Crimean scenario! They themselves didn’t come up with it. HERE THIS SONG started under the demobilization-unacceptable, reaction, etc. On NG met the inhabitants of the polls, now no one is serving. From the old. At the front end-incomplete. Think about it, and the 15-thousandths will run away from hopelessness. Who received the passports of the Russian Federation, many are already skiing! Russia is big. Will accept. And for those who are very smart, I change my mother-in-law's apartment, three-ruble apartment, in Slavyanoserbsk, improved, insulated, a view of the Donets in the Moscow region. Or Kaluga. Enough geopolitics ...
        1. ANB
          +1
          3 February 2020 14: 29
          They themselves didn’t come up with

          Colleague, I really respect the fighters of Donbass, but I’m afraid, myself.
          No wonder Strelkova (and colleagues) was then suddenly pulled out. And now he sits and whines that the DNR / LNR fse, surrender, without his sensitive leadership, nothing will come of it. Although he had nothing to do with Ilovaysk and Debaltseve.
          1. -1
            3 February 2020 15: 26
            Doubtful. However! It intersected with the ghosts — at 14 they held the corridor from Semenovka to Lysychansk and the North. So, a week before the Strelkovtsy left Slavyansk, the Crimean variant was the main one. This corridor kept under it. And the movement there was not weak! Then, overnight, everything collapsed, Even the equipment in the North was abandoned. And they went to Alchevsk through Stakhanov and Pervomaisk.
    3. -1
      3 February 2020 18: 57
      You think? A head analysis is not?
      1. -1
        3 February 2020 21: 18
        We are simple people, we don’t need riddles! I have been living here since I was 64 years old, I see and hear everything myself. At least once a week I have to go to Pionersky for all of these Pervomaisk, Sentyanivka, Merry Mountains and Nikolaevka. And mine do not think, my-know!))) From the front end on the Donets in a straight line to the center of Lugansk-11 km. The area of ​​Lugansk-Veselaya Gora and Vergunka-across the river from dill .. Donets-sparrow knee-deep. In the city, there are 200 thousand people-peacekeepers. How is it with the analysis?
      2. -1
        2 November 2022 15: 16
        You think? A head analysis is not?
        As life has shown, it’s your “no head analysis”, but the person was right. Print out his comment and your answer and hang it in a frame.
    4. +3
      3 February 2020 21: 57
      Quote: 113262
      hot phase of future collision

      who with whom ??? what
      1. -1
        3 February 2020 22: 38
        Already wrote, on the other side svidomye in a low start position. They want to fight. Do not climb just because of the mud, the technique will not pass through the dirt road. Who with whom? In the artillery preparation, under the hand will be a parsnip, then fifteen thousandths, then ... everyone else. But the parsnip will be closed first.
        1. 0
          4 February 2020 01: 05
          Quote: 113262
          Already wrote, on the other side svidomye in a low start position. They want to fight. Do not climb just because of the mud, the technique will not pass through the primer.

          It’s not a matter of debauchery. They have long been at a low start. The fact is that on their own svidomye nobody, without a signal from the Americans, they can not go anywhere. And they will get the go-ahead only when the United States receives guarantees of Russian non-interference. Otherwise, again the North Wind and August 2014.
          In Russia, of course, many people want to give up the Donbass, but the problem here is that the United States does not give any guarantees, either in the Crimea or under sanctions. By virtue of the promises of Europeans, the Kremlin does not believe. So donate the Donbass in a profitable edition also does not work. That’s it, everything is stuck in a dead end.
          An attack of ukrov is hypothetically possible without a Kremlin guarantee, but this is only after the US election and only if Trump loses.
        2. 0
          4 February 2020 10: 27
          As for the low start, I have no doubt, I agree for the peacemaker, for "they want to fight" - it depends on who. With the LPR, the DPR is a big question. The seven-boiled Waltzman army has not yet been forgotten. Although newcomers can be pushed into a bloody massacre, so that they would not turn back with weapons. And for the peace man - I agree, they will be the first, BUT! (accepting such a sacrifice) will be an excuse to destroy all the APU ... by "the most tomatoes." I don’t think they will take full advantage of this occasion, but they will. Already it becomes bad about the peaceful. How many children died, and payback Seven Vyalikh Valtsman Cauldrons. And that's all. CENTURAL MEDICINE ONLY = TIME for horses written out. Very Long and very sad for the horses.
          1. 0
            4 February 2020 12: 19
            Here with time and strained! We are no longer here! Especially in front-line cities. The villages are even worse. People are dying and leaving. Soon there will be no one to sit in the trenches. And you won’t lure them with combat! And offices such as Diagnosis and other German composers are reeling up fishing rods. They are more interested in Syria and Africa.
    5. -1
      2 November 2022 15: 17
      How right you were... I could not resist the pleasure - I wrote separate comments to the opponents who objected to you :)
  6. -1
    3 February 2020 10: 34
    Or Russia is a country on its own. Or we will play the role of suffering, who blame others for everything.
    Maybe it's not too late to start an independent policy for the good of the state? Or the current state is money bags, which determine the policy.
    1. +2
      3 February 2020 13: 18
      Quote: Gardamir
      Maybe it's not too late to start an independent policy for the good of the state?

      Can. But for this, progressive national-patriotic forces must come to power.
    2. +1
      4 February 2020 10: 33
      Self?!?!?!? Is there a little money abroad? Independence and foreignness at the same time is absurd. Capitalism (money first of all) is at the cost of victims and even its population. This is not the USSR for you. Capitalism and socialism are antagonists. Socialism is only for those who support the operator (there is someone to exploit). He left work (well, there is no work); the social network is lost (social network is 2 rubles).
    3. 0
      4 February 2020 23: 42
      Yes that's right. Our position is terpil.
      On the 7th, there will be talks between Lukashenko and Putin.
      Lukash will take all his requirements +10 percent.
      He will come to Minsk and file new lawsuits against Russia.
      Such variations + -
  7. -3
    3 February 2020 10: 36
    And where and what can be seen if banderlog fundamentally charged for Russophobia. Here only a pathologist is needed. But they were going to hang us on knives. Therefore, it is for this reason that banderlogy should be eliminated as a state. And long ago, a powerful liquidation commission should be created on the basis of LDNR.
    1. -1
      3 February 2020 19: 00
      It is self-destructing, or rather, OLIVE and ORAKIT. Already the State Banks with their militants are standing on the stream, as if someone had not squeezed anyone out.
      1. -1
        2 November 2022 15: 20
        Something does not look like ... So far, only the consolidation of the nation has occurred. What the nationalists could not do all the time, we did in half a year.
    2. +2
      3 February 2020 19: 10
      About how Banderlog hooked, immediately a bunch of minuses were set up by idiots, like something will change from this. Poor, what to take from them. Anyway, for me, Kovpak, Vershigora, Kozhedub and others like them will be Ukrainian, and not nits like Bandera and other creatures.
      1. 0
        4 February 2020 10: 35
        Yes, it is normal. It’s not for them GondonaSMI and TSN to look and see. drinks
  8. +7
    3 February 2020 10: 39
    As you can see, “good” options between Kiev and Moscow are somehow not visible

    With such power as now in Ukraine no good relations are expected. If you look at the post-Soviet history, then Russia and Ukraine did not have normal relations. Since the collapse of the USSR, their authorities have been conducting anti-Russian politics. And to expect improvements between countries is not necessary.
    1. -6
      3 February 2020 10: 52
      The USSR did not break up. He systematically collapsed Ukraine, Kravchuk.
      The Belarusian leader himself was not capable of this, he only sang along.
      Yeltsin did not need this.
      The situation took advantage of a descendant of Bandera Kravchuk.
      And he was breaking up the Union not in order to be friends with Russia, but to leave for Europe. What actually happens.
      Do not expect any progress from Ukraine towards improving relations.
      Either we forget and forget about it forever, or we need to decide by force.
      No middle ground.
      1. +3
        3 February 2020 11: 48
        Most of all, the collapse of the USSR was needed by Yeltsin. Because, otherwise, he lost power due to a conflict with Gorbachev. So before writing, it would be nice to know the materiel.
      2. +4
        3 February 2020 13: 21
        Quote: prior
        Either we forget and forget about it forever, or we need to decide by force.
        No middle ground.

        Forget about our historical homeland? Kiev is the mother of Russian cities! It was possible to decide by force in 2014. Now the same force is possible, but only from the inside, through the protest movement.
        1. -1
          4 February 2020 10: 39
          Just imagine for a second wink , instead of the RF Putin, the decision on the coup and hostilities in the Donbass Ukrovermacht, would decide which thread Bush Obama. It would be like in Yugoslavia, they would have bombed Kiev and divided the entire 404 into small areas that are easier to manage. The DoOOOlgo protest movement will start, but very concretely. At the end "messengers kneeling to the king." It was already.
      3. -2
        3 February 2020 14: 01
        Quote: prior
        The USSR did not break up. He systematically collapsed Ukraine, Kravchuk.

        Half-truths are worse than lies. You know very well that out of the four traitors who destroyed the USSR, two were ethnic Russians - Yeltsin and Gorbachev. If Shushkevich, Yeltsin and Gorbachev did not want the collapse of the USSR, no Kravchuk would have done anything. Moreover, the vast majority of residents Ukrainian SSR voted "for" the preservation of the Union. You should be ashamed of your lies.
        1. -4
          3 February 2020 15: 37
          Yeltsin-Jew .. Ukrainian Gorbachev ... where the Russians came from ... Yeltsin’s father was the head of the political wreck camp .. the surname Eltsin in 37 was reposed for sadism
          1. 0
            4 February 2020 10: 57
            Is not Mordvin?
    2. +2
      4 February 2020 10: 56
      Maybe you're right, I'm not talking about that. If you build on your idea, then the question legitimately arises - and what the hell was Chernomyrdin sitting there for many years, and what did he do there, sawing the butterflies? After all, could he not see anything, or had he specially closed his eyes?
      1. 0
        4 February 2020 23: 36
        Chernomyrdin father of the patriarch, Gazprom ... Bobos shook
        On August 8, 1989, on the initiative of Viktor Chernomyrdin, the Ministry of Gas Industry was established on the basis of the first state concern in the USSR - "Gazprom". On August 15, 1989, at the constituent meeting of the concern, Chernomyrdin was elected chairman of his board. He held this post until May 1992.
  9. -1
    3 February 2020 10: 41
    Now tell us why the command of the LPR People's Republic of LNR forces the fighters to surrender the received Russian passports.
    1. 0
      3 February 2020 11: 13
      Quote: Egor-dis
      Now tell us why the command of the LPR People's Republic of LNR forces the fighters to surrender the received Russian passports.

      What is it like? Enlighten
    2. +3
      3 February 2020 13: 22
      Quote: Egor-dis
      Now tell us why the command of the LPR People's Republic of LNR forces the fighters to surrender the received Russian passports.

      Could you elaborate on this fact?
      1. 0
        9 February 2020 23: 26
        Quote: Arlen
        highlight this fact in detail

        nothing to cover there. Since May 2019, as Putin has allowed to issue passports to simplify passports, they began to press to make out faster. Well issued, received. Now they are forced to surrender, who did not surrender - a report on the reason for failure and dismissal.

        Judging by the flown minuses, someone in the know, only the truth hurts his eyes.
        1. +1
          9 February 2020 23: 30
          Quote: Egor-dis
          Judging by the flown minuses

          My minus is not there. I just became interested.
          And what is the point of all this action, first to give out, and now to hand over?
          1. 0
            10 February 2020 22: 13
            Quote: Arlen
            I just became interested.

            So I wonder why they do it. That's why I asked. But someone did not like my question.
  10. 0
    3 February 2020 11: 46
    If the Georgian version happens, that I can finish it as well, but with big losses due to the large size of the Square. They didn’t dare to enter the capital, as a result, we have a very hostile formation, which at any moment can turn into a springboard for an attack, I’m afraid the same thing can happen to Ukraine.
  11. -4
    3 February 2020 12: 04
    The dialogue between Russia and Ukraine is IMPOSSIBLE in the current situation. I vote for option 2.
  12. -2
    3 February 2020 12: 50
    A bad world is better than a good war. Moreover, any military result achieved will be worse than the pre-war state of affairs.
    1. -2
      3 February 2020 13: 28
      A full-scale military conflict can and should go only in two cases, if the enemy "wants" it or, as in this case, if Ukraine in this matter cannot resist the pressure of the United States, and another, if the situation with the Russian-speaking population becomes such that there is no interference for Russia would mean a loss of face.
  13. 0
    3 February 2020 12: 55
    that power that people are enemies of Russia
    1. +6
      3 February 2020 13: 24
      Quote: Sergey Russian
      that power that people are enemies of Russia

      Which nation is the enemy of Russia? Ukrainian? Please clarify.
  14. -1
    3 February 2020 13: 19
    The relationship between "businessmen" is one thing (nothing personal, nothing official), the relationship between people ... they do not exist, tk. former Soviet people will soon die everything ... and everything. The scenario of relations between the parts of the USSR is the same - unification or death.
  15. ANB
    0
    3 February 2020 14: 31
    Quote: 113262
    treshka, in Slavyanoserbsk, improved, insulated, view of the Donets in dvu in the Moscow region

    Do not change.
  16. -2
    3 February 2020 14: 52
    Frankly "violet" to this country 404, whatever it is. I don't understand those who are 6 years old who like to suck on this topic, and it won't take long to go crazy.
    1. +3
      3 February 2020 20: 31
      Quote: ZABVO
      Frankly "violet" to this country 404, whatever it is. I don't understand those who are 6 years old who like to suck on this topic, and it won't take long to go crazy.

      In silence, reconciliation, inaction, repentance ... are born ... Bandera
      1. -2
        4 February 2020 12: 30
        Let all these slogans you will tell young minds, but not to me.
        1. +2
          5 February 2020 22: 38
          Quote: ZABVO
          Let all these slogans you will tell young minds, but not to me.

          Well, as you say, if you really
          Quote: ZABVO
          and not go crazy for long.
  17. +1
    3 February 2020 15: 15
    It was not necessary not to "make a clatter with a beak" in 2014, our GDP, but to give garintia to Yanukovych and disperse this whole Sabbath in the form of a Maidan, and people would be alive and relations are good, and now every year we are moving further and further , and this is TWO out of three KINGBROTHERS.
    1. 0
      4 February 2020 10: 45
      I do not agree. It could not be so. They hid Yanyk correctly. On the face of a coup !!!. And this word in international relations, if that is used, is unrequited. There was no critical mass (Lenin).
    2. DRM
      0
      5 February 2020 16: 07
      Quote: Sailor
      It was not necessary not to "make a clatter with a beak" in 2014, our GDP, but to give garintia to Yanukovych and disperse this whole Sabbath in the form of a Maidan

      Then there would not have been "Krymnash", Putin's outrageous rating before the elections and (most importantly) horror stories like: if you are not obedient to the masters of life, it will be like in Ukraine. And so - everything is according to the HPPlan.
      1. -1
        6 February 2020 09: 44
        With regards to the Crimea, I think this situation would have been beaten, so to speak, to help Yanukovych.
  18. -1
    3 February 2020 15: 35
    it seems like it's time to think how we will use the captured Bandera in the Russian economy ...
    1. DRM
      0
      5 February 2020 16: 09
      Quote: aries2200
      it seems like it's time to think how we will use the captured Bandera in the Russian economy ...

      who about, what and the Aryan 2200 dreams of concentration camps. that's really really "anti-fascism" here rolls over.
      1. 0
        6 February 2020 18: 15
        I dream that banderlog donbass rebuilt
  19. +5
    3 February 2020 16: 25
    About what to do
    1) To withdraw from the Minsk agreements, because Maidan Ukraine does not comply with them.
    2) Recognize the LC, the DNI.
    3) Demand from Maidan Ukraine the withdrawal of its occupying forces from the territory of Donetsk, Lugansk region
    4) In case of refusal to carry out together with the LPR, DPR a military operation to liberate the Donbass.
    5) Reunite Donbass with Russia.
    All this can be done in a short time. The only problem is the dependence of the Russian authorities on dear "Western partners".
    1. 0
      4 February 2020 10: 46
      From foreign money and you have to dance. Future - Only "from this stove to dance."
    2. -1
      2 November 2022 15: 30
      Almost, as according to your points, they did in 2022. And even more. How do you feel about the current situation?
  20. +5
    3 February 2020 20: 26
    Quote: Odyssey
    For which all who commit them and all their accomplices will be liable without limitation.

    Be sure to be responsible. And yet, perhaps, to recall Putin as a loyal ruler ...
  21. 0
    3 February 2020 21: 22
    The fact that Ukrainians do not climb through Donetsk is an accident! The weather let us down! Plus temperature, dirt and rain. The technique will not work. And so everything is in a state of low start.
  22. +2
    4 February 2020 15: 16
    Putin, with a stroke of the pen, deprived all the illusions of ukro-Bandera fascists, the United States, the EU and NATO, for the war between Ukraine and Russia. He, Putin, made them like little blind and helpless puppies easily and simply.
    Putin is the true owner of planet Earth.
    A completely different socio-political process is being planned here.
    The fact is that after receiving Russian citizenship by the main part of Ukrainians, the state of Ukraine, as a state, can simply disappear, "like dew on the sun," just like it is sung in the Ukrainian anthem, only not enemies, but Ukraine itself, will perish.
    After obtaining Russian citizenship by the soldiers and commanders of the DPR and LPR, these armies will already be Russian.
    Then the APU will already really be at war with Russia.
    That's it!
    And that will be a completely different story.
    And all this mouse fuss with the withdrawal of troops, with the law on land, with television shows, with the return of sailors and ships is just a smokescreen for Svidomo Selyuk and the West from the USA.
    Death ukro-Bandera slaves!
    Death to the enemies and traitors of Russia!
  23. -1
    5 February 2020 17: 47
    He blamed the Soviet Union, and therefore Ukraine as well. I think that normal people will not forgive him. And most of them.
  24. 0
    7 February 2020 21: 33
    This is called an elephant in a china shop. This is me about the policy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Russia towards Ukraine and specifically to this article. Thinner is necessary, and cynical, by the way, gentlemen ...
  25. 0
    12 February 2020 09: 18
    Why does the author not consider the option when it will be possible to carry out a coup in Ukraine with the help of the Russian special services? In this case, it is possible to rebuild the relationship exactly the opposite. And even if the pro-Russian regime is unstable and is overthrown, it is possible and useful to carry out the territorial division of this country along the northwest / southeast diagonal. In general, it is strange that not only the author of this article, but also in many other media outlets, for some reason, is not considering the option of organizing a coup. Of course, this will be difficult. But do Western countries shy away from state coups? It's better than a direct invasion anyway. However, combinations of options are also possible: to carry out a coup in Ukraine, and then, at the request of the new leadership of the country, send Russian troops (or "volunteer miners") to the east and south. Otherwise, a pro-American Ukraine will be for Russia the same as for the GDR - West Berlin. In general, I am for a pro-Russian coup in Ukraine. How to carry it out? M. b. by means of special forces to eliminate part of the leadership of Ukraine, and to bribe part. Do it suddenly.