“Bad” or “Even worse”: scenarios of relations between Ukraine and Russia


The end of January of this year became for the Ukrainian-Russian relations a very distinct “Rubicon”, having crossed that Kiev makes it clear that there can be no talk of any normalization even at the most formal level. The words of Vladimir Zelensky, both his words in Poland (the accusation of Russia at the beginning of World War II) and his words already at home, at a briefing held after the meeting with the head of the US State Department (about confidence in the “de-occupation” of Donbass and the return of Crimea with US help) , clearly and unequivocally demonstrate the mood of the authorities "unbroken" to continue the confrontation with Moscow, which they plan to conduct there, relying on the support of overseas owners. This is an absolutely uncontested perspective. Another question, according to what specific scenario will it be implemented.


Consider the scenarios of relations between Russia and Ukraine.

For all the fairly rich invariance of possible events, we will try to reduce their development to three main schemes, which can be arbitrarily designated as “Baltic”, “Georgian” and, say, “Maidan”, or extreme. In this case, the main role will be played by who, in fact, will determine the course of official Kiev: its curators from Washington, the relatively adequate internal players represented by the same local oligarchs, or the most radical circles, political marginalized in abundance generated by the coup and civil the war.

The “Baltic” option is possible in the case of complete control over Kiev by more or less moderate US politicians. Most likely, its main essence will be Ukraine’s maximum separation from Russia in all areas without exception, from economic to cultural, and bloodless confrontation in the form of ongoing demarches against our country in international organizations, lawsuits, and the like. Such a development of the situation will be acceptable for the Ukrainian “masters of life”, over the past few years, who have learned perfectly how to increase their capital, using Russophobic domestic politics and imitating the “reflection of aggression” in the country and continuing to maintain economic relations with our country without unnecessary publicity. For Russia, such a scenario is perhaps the least problematic. Yes, it means the sanctions against our country and attempts to internationally isolate it almost indefinitely, but it can hardly turn into an armed confrontation with Ukraine and its Western allies.

The course of events according to the “Georgian” scenario is possible if hawks prevail in Washington and Kiev. It will certainly mean a much more aggressive behavior of Ukraine, an even greater intensity of Russophobia broadcast by it at all levels both within the country and outside it. However, the most unpleasant thing is that its main difference may well be attempts to return the "illegally occupied territories", and not diplomatically, but by military means. Madness? But were the actions of Tbilisi in 2008 sane? Blind faith in “abroad will help us”, cherished and nurtured by the same Washington, whose top representatives left and right scatter statements about “unconditional support for the territorial integrity of Ukraine”, it may well push its authorities into an adventure on, say, “de-occupation of Donbass”, after which collision will become simply inevitable.

No less probable in this context is the increase in provocations from the "non-independent" in the waters of the Azov and Black Seas. The “trial ball”, which can be considered the “Kerch incident”, was relatively painless for Kiev and, in the end, allowed some of the representatives of his current government to gain additional political points. Why not repeat it, and even on a large scale? By the way, in favor of this assumption is evidenced by the increased attention that the United States devotes specifically to strengthening the naval “power” of Ukraine. The fact that the consequences of this kind of escapade can go far beyond the planned "minimum costs" and result in a full-scale war in Washington does not bother anyone, and in Kiev, it seems, no one can imagine.

However, the most risky and unpredictable for all possible participants is the third option, in which the political situation in Ukraine can get out of anyone's control in general. What is the difference that will cause this: a sharp deterioration in the economic situation, the adoption of unpopular decisions by the authorities, or any other serious crisis. The country has accumulated too many negative factors, each of which is capable of causing a social explosion, and all of them in the aggregate and even more so. At the same time, the only factual real force capable of “saddling” a spontaneous protest and directing it in the direction necessary for itself in Ukraine today is organizations and political movements of the extreme right, radical sense. They are numerous, well organized and armed no worse (if not better) than the state "siloviki". The "Golden Eagle", capable of holding back the raging crowd for months, is no longer there, and the current police will scatter in the blink of an eye.

The most unpleasant thing is that according to this “scenario”, everything can go even without a formal coup: President Zelensky has repeatedly shown how dependent he is on the nationalist “lobby” and how incapable of resisting it.

If this audience comes to power in Ukraine, directly or indirectly, even if only for the shortest time, the consequences will be most sad: from attempts to “spontaneously” attack the Donbass to bloody repressions against Russian-speaking residents declared “accomplices of the aggressor”. What the brutal crowd of “patriots of the nation” is capable of, the events of 2014 in Odessa showed, and not only there. In this case, Russia simply will have no choice but to directly intervene in spite of all the cries and prohibitions of the “world community”. Otherwise, all patriotic slogans and ideas of the “Russian world” can be put to an end forever.

As you can see, “good” options between Kiev and Moscow are somehow not visible. The choice so far is between "bad" and "worse." The saddest thing is that we will probably not make the choice between the bad ones ...
Author:
Photos used:
Facebook / OOS
Ctrl Enter

Noticed a mistake Highlight text and press. Ctrl + Enter

128 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. master 52 3 February 2020 10: 12 New
    • 7
    • 1
    +6
    until America switches into its foreign policy from Russia to someone else occupied (Ukraine) it will not change its policy. "do not judge strictly purely my opinion"
    1. major147 3 February 2020 10: 39 New
      • 7
      • 0
      +7
      Quote: 52 master
      until America switches into its foreign policy from Russia to someone else occupied (Ukraine) it will not change its policy. "do not judge strictly purely my opinion"

      Moreover, the worse the situation in Europe, the better for the United States.
    2. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 3 February 2020 10: 43 New
      • 12
      • 6
      +6
      In any case, Ukraine will not forget about the historical reunification of Russia and Crimea in the next 50 years. It seems to me that it is so obvious that it is strange how someone can expect something else. And after 50 years, Ukraine and Russia may already have no more in common than, for example, Russia and the Czech Republic (took for example, because they are also Slavs).
      1. Arlen 3 February 2020 13: 14 New
        • 11
        • 2
        +9
        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        In any case, Ukraine will not forget about the historical reunification of Russia and Crimea in the next 50 years.

        We will not forget the burning of people in Odessa, the killing of civilians in the Donbass. The West pitted us with each other, two fraternal peoples. The West staged a coup in Ukraine and brought Russophobic politicians to power. As a result, we have what we have.
        1. 210ox 3 February 2020 14: 26 New
          • 6
          • 1
          +5
          Do not forget ... However, this does not apply to our rulers. I fully admit the appearance of “tagged 2.0” in the Kremlin. How could we have imagined in the year 1980 that in ten years our country will not be? So who knows. These may be forgotten.
        2. TermNachTer 3 February 2020 19: 33 New
          • 0
          • 5
          -5
          The author overestimates the possibilities of various kinds of Bandera rabble. There are not so many of them, and in essence - they are jackals, not fighters. As soon as they smell fried, they will be the first to tear towards Polish, Romanian, etc. borders.
          1. Nikolai Grek 3 February 2020 21: 39 New
            • 1
            • 2
            -1
            Quote: TermNachTER
            The author overestimates the possibilities of various kinds of Bandera rabble

            who killed so many civilians in the Donbass ??? !!! fool am
            1. TermNachTer 3 February 2020 22: 00 New
              • 0
              • 3
              -3
              The Mirnyak in the Donbass was killed mainly by the army, there were not many Banderasts (Dobrobats) there. And the people in them were few. There are only high-profile names - the "Manure" regiment, the "Aydar" battalion, and the people in them, fuck and hell. And they were all funded by specific individuals. They will be ordered to stop financing, they will stop because they have something to lose. Tomorrow the armies will order the “wetting” of the banderlogs — they will do so with great pleasure. They do not consider them their twin.
              1. Nikolai Grek 4 February 2020 00: 01 New
                • 3
                • 3
                0
                Quote: TermNachTER
                Mirnyak in the Donbass was killed mainly by the army,

                what at the moment this is the scum of Bandera, which supports the Nazi regime in Ukraine, established at the state level !!! fool I ask you to note that the vast majority of VNA residents do not really bother, the presence of the Nazi regime does not bother them much, the Bandera foundations of the army are not disturbing !!! negative
                1. TermNachTer 4 February 2020 17: 39 New
                  • 0
                  • 3
                  -3
                  The army has many mobilized, where they were driven under the threat of prison. But stubborn Natsik not so much. Tomorrow the army will give the command to “water” the Natsiks, they will fulfill the order the same way.
                  1. Nikolai Grek 4 February 2020 18: 39 New
                    • 2
                    • 1
                    +1
                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    The army has many mobilized, where they were driven under the threat of prison

                    what Do you have the same approach to the Nazi German army ???? fool
                    1. TermNachTer 6 February 2020 19: 04 New
                      • 0
                      • 2
                      -2
                      No different. Hitler simply cleaned the Reichswehr with harsher and faster methods. The current supreme commanders of the Banderland are not capable of this.
      2. Victorio 3 February 2020 15: 21 New
        • 2
        • 1
        +1
        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        In any case, Ukraine will not forget about the historical reunion Russia and Crimea in the next 50 years. It seems to me so obvious that it is strange how someone can expect something else. And after 50 years, Ukraine and Russia may already have no more in common than, for example, Russia and the Czech Republic (took for example, because they are also Slavs).

        ===
        why only for 50 years? Poles have been holding grudges for hundreds of years. the Balts are about a hundred soon, and the Asian republics are also repeating about oppression and deprivation.
        1. TermNachTer 6 February 2020 19: 09 New
          • 0
          • 1
          -1
          Those who are not "hassle-free" reacted to the departure of the Crimea and Donbass, absolutely calmly. Just now, going on vacation to the Crimea has become a little more difficult and expensive. And so, the queues at Perekop and Chongar, this summer, clearly demonstrate the attitude of normal people to this problem. If they harbored an insult, they would not have gone. There is enough Black Sea coast - from Skadovsk and already beyond Zatoka.
    3. Svarog 3 February 2020 11: 13 New
      • 6
      • 13
      -7
      Quote: 52 master
      until America switches into its foreign policy from Russia to someone else occupied (Ukraine) it will not change its policy. "do not judge strictly purely my opinion"

      Or until the policy of Russia becomes extremely harsh in relation to the elite of Ukraine ..
      An operation like "Our Crimea" can be carried out in Ukraine as well .. be it political will ..
      1. major147 3 February 2020 13: 33 New
        • 3
        • 1
        +2
        Quote: Svarog
        Or until the policy of Russia becomes extremely harsh in relation to the elite of Ukraine ..

        Hurrah!!!! Found the culprit of all the troubles of Ukraine!

        despite the lack of personal acquaintance, communication and contacts, Gordon unequivocally accused the Russian official of constructing all Ukrainian troubles - from Ukraine’s loss of Crimea to the war in the Donbass:
        “For me, of course, Surkov, is the ideologist of all the misfortune that happened between Russia and Ukraine. The ideologist of the capture of the Crimea, the ideologist of the "plan of New Russia", the ideologist of the war in the Donbass.
      2. Nikolai Grek 8 February 2020 21: 42 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Quote: Svarog
        An operation similar to “Our Crimea” can also be carried out in Ukraine ..

        for what purpose??? you don’t see that the hatskrayniki quite like the established neo-Nazi regime ?? !!! fool negative
    4. Berber 3 February 2020 15: 04 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      A bit wrong. The United States needs to completely switch from foreign to domestic policy. And for this it is necessary that they have their own "Maidan" to happen. The one they prepared for us.
    5. Dmitry_24rus 4 February 2020 23: 31 New
      • 0
      • 1
      -1
      Our position is the position of "terpils" always from below.
      Negotiations with Lukashenko are coming soon, as a result there will be crazy dumping on energy resources to “brothers-to-go-to-Belarus”. Lukashenko will come home and file a new lawsuit against Russia .. And we will pay again in silence ...
      We pay all fraternal and non-fraternal coins. Ukraine will pay and will pay forever @
      Reply
      Quote
      A complaint
  2. Lamata 3 February 2020 10: 18 New
    • 7
    • 4
    +3
    I would be banal, but the current government of Ukraine will not conduct an intelligible dialogue with the Russian Federation.
  3. Terenin 3 February 2020 10: 24 New
    • 20
    • 5
    +15
    The fact is that they are at war with us, and we are analyzing and making friends. Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in the Donbas (who have received passports of Russian citizens) ... Why do not the “sanctions” imposed by the Russian Federation against them work? ... Why are no laws passed on criminal prosecution of people who harm Russia? number and "fifth column"?
    1. Lamata 3 February 2020 10: 29 New
      • 7
      • 6
      +1
      Well, how are Western partners against
    2. major147 3 February 2020 10: 42 New
      • 11
      • 1
      +10
      Quote: Terenin
      Why the sanctions “introduced” by the Russian Federation against them do not work? ...

      Sanctions were developed, but did not introduce them in the hope of constructing a "new Ukrainian president."
      1. Terenin 3 February 2020 10: 57 New
        • 9
        • 4
        +5
        Quote: major147
        Quote: Terenin
        Why the sanctions “introduced” by the Russian Federation against them do not work? ...

        Sanctions were developed, but did not introduce them in the hope of constructing a "new Ukrainian president."

        hi
        Hope should be with the people, and the government should have analytical services, departments, other structures and a clear position in the interests of this people.
        And the "positive" of the new mattress henpecked, betraying even his grandfather, a veteran, we clearly heard. And, in the Kremlin ... they analyze again !? What? What other chaos of Bandera is needed? Once again, the profits of multinational companies on your mind !?
        1. major147 3 February 2020 12: 35 New
          • 7
          • 4
          +3
          Quote: Terenin
          And the "positive" of the new mattress henpecked, betraying even his grandfather, a veteran, we clearly heard

    3. Grandfather Crimea 3 February 2020 11: 24 New
      • 3
      • 2
      +1
      If this happens, then the crisis will go not just into a dead corner, but at the peak without getting out of it. And then there will be unpredictable things ... Are everyone ready for war)))?
      1. Grandfather Crimea 3 February 2020 11: 29 New
        • 8
        • 2
        +6
        Those Russian-Ukrainians or Russian-speaking Ukrainians, or simply pro-Russian citizens or ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine, do not feel any support from Russia. This is about how Medvedev blurted out in Crimea, no money, but you hold on !!!!
        1. Grandfather Crimea 3 February 2020 11: 35 New
          • 9
          • 2
          +7
          Someone can say, go to Russia. And they themselves did not try to move (the problem of internal relocation is frightening with many nuances, and moving to another state, in general) And if people over 50 who need them in the Russian Federation ?. The situation is rotten, you can’t imagine worse (((((
        2. Nikolai Grek 3 February 2020 21: 46 New
          • 4
          • 3
          +1
          Quote: Grandfather Crimea
          Those Russian-Ukrainians or Russian-speaking Ukrainians or simply pro-Russian citizens or, to the extreme, ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine do not feel any support from Russia.

          you are deeply mistaken !!! root cause - mayahskratsiyu !!! request it also includes the option to blame problems around everyone and the troubles resulting from them !! negative and the big question is, who will support people who, at the sight of you, seem to be with you, and in your absence, easily adapt to the opposite ideology !!! soldier
    4. Ptolemy Lag 3 February 2020 11: 49 New
      • 0
      • 4
      -4
      It's all about the property ... Guess whose property?
    5. revnagan 3 February 2020 13: 56 New
      • 4
      • 11
      -7
      Quote: Terenin
      Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in the Donbass (who received passports of Russian citizens) ...

      Are you outraged by the US policy, but you hear yourself? Donbass, don’t tell me, this is the territory of Ukraine. What are the citizens of Russia doing on the territory of Ukraine where the fighting is taking place? Why did Russia allow its citizens to be in the dangerous territory of ANOTHER country? Probably so it was possible and convenient to make claims to Ukraine later. Citizens of Russia staying on the territory of Ukraine should first visit the Ukrainian Embassy in the Russian Federation, where they will be told that it’s dangerous to go to the b / d zone. In the Russian Foreign Ministry, all Russian citizens are obliged to explain that they’re traveling It’s dangerous in the territory of the neighboring country where the fighting is taking place. Citizens of the Russian Federation who find themselves in the territory of the neighboring state in the war zone of their own free will are responsible for their future fate. Plus, Ukraine has dual citizenship prohibited by law. Let Russian citizens go to Kiev, Chernihiv, Odessa, where they don’t shoot. But if they themselves, voluntarily do not want to live in Russia, but go to live with Russian passports to where the fighting goes, what is the fault of Ukraine in that they themselves voluntarily subjected Russian citizens are themselves at risk? This is some sort of international legal nonsense, with which you can easily draw a parallel with events in Gleiwitz request .
      1. Odysseus 3 February 2020 16: 59 New
        • 7
        • 5
        +2
        Quote: revnagan
        Donbass, like it or not, this is the territory of Ukraine

        This is not true. In Ukraine, in 2014, an armed coup d'etat took place. Citizens of Ukraine had every right to self-determination regarding the putschists. Accept them and build a new statehood, please have full right. Do not accept and build your statehood is your right. Residents of Crimea and Donbass self-determined regarding the withdrawal from the Maidan of Ukraine is their right. So Donbass is not the territory of Ukraine, it is the territory of the LPR and the DPR (including the part temporarily occupied by Ukraine).
        Quote: revnagan
        . What are the citizens of Russia doing on the territory of Ukraine where hostilities are taking place?

        Not just military operations, but the aggression of Maidan of Ukraine against the DPR and LPR with the commission of war crimes against civilians. For which all who commit them and all their accomplices will be liable without limitation.
        Quote: revnagan
        But if they themselves, voluntarily do not want to live in Russia, but go to live with Russian passports to where the fighting goes, what is the fault of Ukraine? Is it that Russian citizens themselves voluntarily put themselves at risk?

        Why pretend, to put it mildly, an unwise person? We are talking about residents of the DPR and LPR who received Russian passports. They live in the Donbass, they do not come anywhere and out of nowhere.
        PS It’s another matter that dependent on the West and increasingly weakening authorities of the Russian Federation, having given the former Ukraine to the West, decided to fight only for the Crimea. What created an absurd situation. The inhabitants of Crimea and Donbass are exactly the same, but some are part of Russia and others (according to the authorities of the Russian Federation) as part of the Maidan of Ukraine. Here it is necessary to decide if we recognize the right of Crimeans to self-determination, it is necessary to recognize the right of Donbass, if not (as you do) you need to give Crimea to Ukraine. Sitting on 2 chairs at the same time as the authorities of the Russian Federation are trying to make endlessly fail.
        1. revnagan 3 February 2020 18: 12 New
          • 2
          • 6
          -4
          Quote: Odyssey
          This is not true. In Ukraine, in 2014, an armed coup d'etat took place. Citizens of Ukraine had every right to self-determination regarding the putschists. Accept them and build a new statehood, please have full right. Do not accept and build your statehood is your right.

          Where, in which international Laws is it written? Or did you personally decide so? Well, if you decided so, and someone else, then why would you consider your point of view to be the only true one?
          There is international law, and no one has the right to violate it just because it seems to him that it’s right. And the international right says: Donbass (ALL!) Is the territory of Ukraine.
          Quote: Odyssey
          We are talking about residents of the DPR and LPR who received Russian passports.

          Having lied in small things, you will lose confidence in everything. Russian passports? And not Russian ones? Moreover, Russia provokes Ukrainian citizens to violate the Law by distributing their passports on the territory of Ukraine. Indeed, Ukrainian citizens cannot have dual citizenship. If you want another citizenship, please renounce Ukrainian and go to God with your new homeland (otherwise it will turn out to be a "creeping occupation", as you have in Primorye with China).
          1. Odysseus 3 February 2020 19: 56 New
            • 5
            • 4
            +1
            Quote: revnagan
            There is international law, and no one has the right to violate it just because it seems to him that it’s right. And the international right says: Donbass (ALL!) Is the territory of Ukraine.

            You write just wild things. A brief educational program for you.
            1) International law regulates relations between states. It does not regulate relations within the state. And the right to secede from the rebels who seized power is in no way affected.
            2) International law simply reflects the balance of power between states. For example, Nazi Germany would have won - there would have been another "legal" international law. Or, during the USSR, its norms were interpreted one by one, and now it is completely different. Now the United States is a world hegemon, so what is beneficial to them is legal. For example, if the existence of Maidan Ukraine for some reason becomes unprofitable for them, tomorrow the "international community" will recognize at least all of Ukraine as part of the Russian Federation.
            Essentially, let’s say an armed coup d'état will happen in the United States, and, say, the US Communist Party will come to power. And in Texas, supporting legitimate authority, freedom and democracy do not submit to the coup and do not want to live in the socialist United States, but form the Texas Republic. Are their actions valid? Absolutely. But those who wanted to support the coup have the full right to remain in the United States. Texans want to join the socialist United States-please. But the US attempt to forcibly join Texas will become aggression.
            Quote: revnagan
            Having lied in a small way, you will lose confidence in everything. Russian passports? And not Russian?

            Is that all you found fault with? Some kind of kindergarten. Of course, Russian. It's just that in Russia the term “Russian” introduced by EBN in the 90s causes irritation for most people. Almost everyone replaces it with the normal word-Russians.
            And then, judging by your answer, you perfectly understood that it was about the inhabitants of Donbass. Why then was lying about the "coming Russians"?
            1. revnagan 4 February 2020 13: 58 New
              • 1
              • 6
              -5
              Quote: Odyssey
              You write just wild things.

              laughing Yes, you read your opus, there it is, yes, wild things. And everything is based on your imagination and an alternative story. Sorry, but this is not samizdat, and fantasy is not appropriate. Before you write about the rebels from whom you should separate, you need to look several decades ago. And it turns out that all the "separatists" who now want to secede from the Russian Federation have the right to secede. For example, what did Chechnya do for that? There was a "rebellion" in Moscow, the USSR collapsed, and the tanks shot the White House. They seized power democrats. Separate yourself, who wants to, yes? And why with Russia, “no,” and with Ukraine “yes?” You painted everything so beautifully in your fantasies, it’s up to you. Give the Laws on which your fantasies are based. Specifically: Law No. then from the number ... this then allows you to separate from the rebels.
              Quote: Odyssey
              Why then was lying about the "coming Russians"?

              What is the lie? In Donbass, citizens of Ukraine. Donbass-Ukraine. Citizens of Russia can’t appear there suddenly. Double citizenship in Ukraine is prohibited by law. Withdrawal has come from without permission. Who is to blame for this? So, an ethnic Chinese man from Russia will receive a Chinese passport, he’ll suffer (at the hands of the police, for example), and China will have the right to defend its citizens by force on the territory of the Russian Federation? So, what? Will it be right? There is nothing to "fint" here and cast a shadow over the fence.
              1. Odysseus 4 February 2020 20: 26 New
                • 4
                • 2
                +2
                Quote: revnagan
                Separate yourself, who wants to, yes? And why with Russia, "no", and with Ukraine, "yes"?

                The trouble is not that you don’t know simple things, the trouble is that you don't want to know them . I’ll try for the last time, it’s impossible to convince you, of course, because of your reticence, but it’s useful even for you to know the reality.
                1) Logic is one for all. And for Russia and Ukraine and Tanzania
                2) The collapse of the USSR and the shooting of the White House are different processes that occurred in different countries and at different times.
                3) The collapse of the USSR, the process is quite unique because it was a “revolution from above”, it was liquidated by its own power. Therefore, there was no talk of formal legality in this case, however, of course, its collapse did not correspond to Soviet laws. And of course, in this case too, after the cessation of the former statehood, people had every right to self-determination regarding the new states. And they did it. The breakup went along the most diverse borders, republics, autonomous republics, regions, just territories.
                4) The shooting of the Supreme Council - a coup in the Russian Federation. The shape is similar to Maidan. Of course, all regions of the Russian Federation had every right to self-determination regarding him.
                5) Chechnya is the exact opposite of Donbass, and not its counterpart. Dudaev and his people actively supported both the 1991 coup (they actually took power during the GKChP acting against the Soviet power in the Chechen Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic) and the 1993 coup. Military operations there began in December 1994 after the opposition forces lost to Dudaev (which appeared after he seized sole power). An analogue of the Donbass would be if in 1993 some region of Russia did not obey Yeltsin and remained faithful to the legitimate authority of the Supreme Council. An analogue of Chechnya is if now any region that supported the Maidan (for example, Lviv) would have declared its withdrawal from the already maidan Ukraine. That would be pure separatism, and a complete analogue to Chechnya.
                Quote: revnagan
                Bring the Laws on which your fantasies are based. Specifically: Law No. is such from the number ... this allows this to be separated from the rebels. Is it not?

                Just amazing. How can rebellion be spelled out in the law? Law that is the law, so that there is no a priori rebellion in it. Yes, even if you are three times Maydan’s, but how can you not know such things!
                Once again - in any Constitution of any state, a priori, the need for legality of actions to change power is spelled out. In any coup / revolution, the former statehood and its laws are destroyed. The new revolutionary power creates its own new rules and laws. Residents of the country have every right to decide on these new authorities. No one has the right to force anyone to submit to the power of the rebels by force.
                1. revnagan 4 February 2020 21: 50 New
                  • 1
                  • 5
                  -4
                  I understand you. You think your opinion is the only correct one and you are trying to impose it on everyone who does not agree. This is due to the fact that Russia intends to grow land at the expense of its neighbors in the medium term (including in the Donbass). Since this is good for Russia (but bad for Ukraine), you, as a patriot of your country, say that everything is happening right. But since it harms the interests of my country, I think your opinion is wrong, biased, biased and unfounded. In addition, you still haven’t answered, what law does Russia distribute Is his citizenship citizens of a neighboring state, cynically and defiantly violating its legislation? As for the logic that you rely on, relations between states are governed by international law, not logic, and not “consider right / wrong.” If logic is called to help , then call maydown a rebellion and recognize the government that it brought to power as legitimate (namely, the leadership of your country did) ... Where is the logic? What kind of rebel power are you talking about? Do you disagree with your president, who called the Ukrainian authorities "best choice UKRAINIAN PEOPLE" and poroshenko- "our Ukrainian partner"?
                  1. Odysseus 4 February 2020 22: 28 New
                    • 3
                    • 1
                    +2
                    Quote: revnagan
                    Since this is good for Russia (but bad for Ukraine), you, as a patriot of your country, say that everything is happening right.

                    I am not a patriot of the oligarchic RF, but a patriot of the USSR. But this is not the case. I argue that the separation of Donbass is legitimate, not because I am someone else's patriot, but because it really is. The only one who is legitimate to resolve this issue is the people of Donbass, they want to live after the coup of 2014 as part of Ukraine, please. No, then let them be independent.
                    Quote: revnagan
                    As for the logic that you rest on, in relations between states they are guided by international law

                    Twenty five again. International law speaks of relations between states. The unlawful seizure of power by any international relations is not supported or regulated. And this “legislation” is simply a reflection of the right of the strong. For example, tell the United States or Israel about this "legislation", so they laugh ....
                    Quote: revnagan
                    Where is the logic? What is the power of the rebels, what are you talking about? Do you disagree with your president, who called the government of Ukraine "the best choice of the UKRAINIAN PEOPLE", and Poroshenko- "our Ukrainian partner"?

                    Yes, here you are right. There is no logic. And indeed, speaking of the position of the Russian authorities, issuing passports is illegal. First, it was necessary to recognize the DPR, LPR, then if the authorities of the DPR, LPR would be asked to issue passports, issue them. The position of the authorities of the Russian Federation is absurd, and of course I do not agree with it. This position leads the Russian Federation to defeat.
                    Quote: revnagan
                    .This is due to the fact that in the medium term, Russia intends to grow lands at the expense of its neighbors (including in the Donbass)

                    Russia is not up to fat, I would be living. All post-Soviet republics face the same problems - they are eating up the Soviet legacy and losing state independence. If the Russian Federation does not change its socio-economic policy, the same sad fate awaits as Ukraine. The Ukrainian crisis is her defeat. Ukraine lost its statehood and became a territory controlled by the West. The fact that they were able to temporarily recapture the Crimea does not compensate for this
                    1. revnagan 4 February 2020 22: 57 New
                      • 1
                      • 6
                      -5
                      Quote: Odyssey
                      The unlawful seizure of power by any international relations is not supported or regulated.

                      And the world community (including Russia) believes that the post-Maidan authorities are completely legal. And who is right? You or the world community (including Russia)? And let's face it: who are you (and what is the price your opinion) and who disagrees with you and the price of their opinion. So everything is within the framework of the Law (on the part of Ukraine), and Russia violates this Law. However, I must admit that there is common sense in your Wishlist, especially in the last two paragraphs. It’s especially gratifying that you yourself understand that Crimea is temporary. It’s just that the agony of Russia dragged on, delayed by the Way but nothing lasts forever under the moon.
          2. Odysseus 3 February 2020 20: 13 New
            • 4
            • 3
            +1
            Quote: revnagan
            Moreover, Russia provokes Ukrainian citizens to violate the Law by distributing their passports in Ukraine. Indeed, Ukrainian citizens cannot have dual citizenship

            What a strange logic. Look at the official statistics of Maidan of Ukraine. Millions of people are fleeing from it literally at all costs. Moreover, the very first "Persian Ukrainians". Every second of the Maidan elites has dual or even triple (like Kolomoisky's) citizenship. I’m not talking about countless crowds of Maidan Ukrainians who are ready to work as whores in Poland or wash toilet bowls there for the longed-for right to obtain EU citizenship and forget about “nenki” forever and ever. But the claims you are making are not these dual citizens of Maidan of Ukraine, but Russia granting its citizenship to the inhabitants of the LPR and the DNI to Maidan Ukraine has nothing to do.
            Quote: revnagan
            If you want another citizenship, please refuse Ukrainian and go to God with your new homeland

            Are you completely stunned? Is it for some reason that the residents of Donbass need to go somewhere? The requirements for Maidan Ukraine are simple
            1) Leave the occupied part of Donbass.
            2) Recognize the right of residents of the Crimea and Donbass to self-determination.
            3) To extradite all war criminals responsible for the killings of civilians in Donbass.
            4) Compensate for all material damage caused to the Donbass during the aggression.
            After that, Maidan Ukraine will be completely free in its desires. If the desires of the Ukrainians are consistent with the ideals of the Maidan, that is, to be a slave to the Western master, then so be it. Such is their fate and take away the right to be a slave from them, no one has the right.
            1. revnagan 4 February 2020 14: 11 New
              • 1
              • 6
              -5
              Quote: Odyssey
              But you are not making claims against these dual citizens of the Maidan of Ukraine

              Here we discuss the problems of Donbass and Russia, irresponsibly distributing their passports to citizens of a neighboring state on its territory, thereby openly violating the Law of this state on its territory. There will be an article about Poland, and how Ukrainians with a Polish passport suffered from APU in the territories, ready to join Poland, and we'll talk.
              Quote: Odyssey
              The requirements for Maidan Ukraine are simple

              Only the winner can demand anything. In the meantime, LDNR has only 1/3 of the Lugansk and Donetsk Oblasts of Ukraine, and they can only stay at the expense of “suction” from the Russian Federation. So here, by
              Self-determination is not a question. Russia recognizes the right of Chechnya to self-determination, as well as all national minorities on its territory, and Ukraine is already running.
              I support paragraph 3 without any reservations.
              Point 4 is unacceptable in general. Absolutely. It is possible to restore the national economy destroyed with the help of Russia in 1/3 of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions only as part of Ukraine. So you can now consider yourself free in your desires, the flag is in your hands and forward. to fulfill your Wishlist in your right mind - this is voluntary slavery.
              1. Odysseus 4 February 2020 22: 55 New
                • 2
                • 3
                -1
                Quote: revnagan
                There will be an article about Poland, and about how Ukrainians with a Polish passport suffered from the Armed Forces in the territories ready to join Poland, and we'll talk about it.

                Look at your strange logic. You recognize the Maidan coup and are unhappy with dual citizenship. They write to you, look at your power, there are people with dual citizenship. Look at your (Maydan) people, they have a different citizenship, this is the only national idea of ​​a new Ukraine. You say, we are not discussing this ... But you are dissatisfied with the acquisition of Russian citizenship by the residents of Donbass who do not recognize the Maidan Ukraine at all. And write, they violate the laws of Ukraine. Which Ukraine? For them, it simply does not exist. They do not want to live in it. Therefore, they line up in kilometer-long queues to obtain the coveted Russian citizenship.
                And your people do not want to live in Maidan Ukraine. But instead of trying to eliminate that hell on earth that you have built, you want to forcefully drive into it even those who have nothing to do with Maidan Ukraine.
                Quote: revnagan
                Only the winner can demand anything. In the meantime, LDNR has only 1/3 of the Lugansk and Donetsk Oblasts of Ukraine, and they can only stay at the expense of “suction” from the Russian Federation. So here, by

                I wrote about law and justice, and you write about “realpolitik.” From the point of view of law and justice, these are the requirements for a new Ukraine — to leave Donbass alone and compensate for the damage. Once again, no rights to force there are no people to obey the Maidan rebel.
                And from the point of view of realpolitiks you are right. The Russian authorities themselves are dependent on the West, they themselves are very weak, so they did not dare to help Donbass. Say thanks to Putin and K. Maidan Ukraine kills children, old people, women, has arranged social genocide. You can rejoice.
                1. revnagan 5 February 2020 11: 19 New
                  • 1
                  • 8
                  -7
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  Look at your strange logic. You recognize the Maidan coup

                  Logic is never strange; it is either there or not. I don’t admit the Maidan revolution, but the entire “world community (including Russia). It means that it’s legal. It means that everything that is against the revolution is illegal. Logic, you can’t argue against it. And not the rebels are trying to do something to force, and the LEGAL AUTHORITY of Ukraine. So that your speculation crumble to dust.
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  And you are dissatisfied with obtaining Russian citizenship by residents of Donbass who do not recognize Maydan Ukraine at all.

                  You see, the oligarchs of Ukraine who have double-triple citizenship do not preach the separation of their inheritance from the territory of Ukraine and their accession to the territory of, say, Israel, but they sit quietly and peacefully and rob Ukraine under the law, alas. Brainless power in Ukraine does not And when normal adequate people come to power, Ukraine itself and its Crimea and the Donbass will come in handy. Therefore, it will be fair: if you received a Russian passport in Ukraine, go to your new Homeland, or sit quietly like Kolomoisha and don’t provoke races Hell of Ukraine and do not try to tear off a piece of Ukraine in order to take it as a dowry to the new Ukraine syuzerenu.Na you nothing else belongs to ...
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  But instead of trying to eliminate that hell on earth that you have built, you want to forcefully drive into it even those who have nothing to do with Maidan Ukraine.

                  You make a lot of mistakes in your statement, due to ignorance of the situation (“I see it this way”). Eliminating the hell that was created in Ukraine (which was not arranged by “we” in general, and I in particular) by the citizens of Ukraine, alas, is not possible. all this is organized, paid and verified by the forces of the collective West, which America specifically stands behind. And only forces, at least not weaker, can confront it in this Sabbath, and not a people, in fact, not an organized mass, which has nothing to oppose the powers of the West. -sale policies are one thing, and the state is another Therefore, Ukraine’s loss of its territories is bad. All that’s bad for Ukraine is globally bad. The reasons for the losses do not interest me. Bad and that’s all. Once again I’ll explain that sane politicians will come, but the territories are bye-bye. Not so. And you know, sometimes it seems that Russia, having estimated that it has no chance in confronting the global West in Ukraine, decided: let it be so, pick up and attach pieces of Ukraine that will fall off of it. Using the grief and difficulties of Ukraine. But I probably forgot that on someone else’s misfortune I don’t want to build it. Yes, I want to remind you that modern Russia is not the USSR. There is capitalism, as in Ukraine. Ukrainian capitalists, having suffered losses in a clash with Russians, will begin to make up for them at my expense. Why do I need this? Therefore, I am against the expansion of the Russian Federation to Ukrainian territories.
          3. Nikolai Grek 3 February 2020 21: 54 New
            • 6
            • 2
            +4
            Quote: revnagan
            Where, in which international laws is this written?

            Svidamye finally justified their coup with the right of the people to revolt (there is such a thing in "international jurisprudence") ... however, they forgot that they have no right to have such a right !!! wink soldier
      2. Alex Nevs 3 February 2020 18: 56 New
        • 1
        • 2
        -1
        "Fucked up" like my grandson. And he still goes to kindergarten.
      3. Terenin 3 February 2020 20: 18 New
        • 5
        • 3
        +2
        Well, hello to Pan, a supporter of Slavik Kovtun winked He asks himself a question, as if from an opponent, and he answers him ardently and angrily ...

        Quote: revnagan
        Are you outraged by US politics, but do you hear yourself?

        Specify where, in my text, I was outraged by US policy?
        By the way, I don’t consider it at all no This is pure international racketeering and robbery. Do not hesitate, soon you will see this yes

        Quote: revnagan
        What are Russian citizens doing on the territory of Ukraine where hostilities are taking place?

        And, is there anything that Russian citizens were born and living in the seventh generation? But, what are foreign armed bandits doing on the side of the Armed Forces in the civil conflict zone?

        Quote: revnagan
        Plus, in Ukraine, dual citizenship is prohibited by law.

        Oh how belay And, you talked about this to the ruling elite and the oligarchy of Ukraine? If SHO, then the list of oligarchy and staff of the presidential administration of Ukraine with dual citizenship in the public domain fellow And, they chali on
        prohibited by law


        Quote: revnagan
        This is some kind of international legal nonsense with which you can easily draw a parallel with the events in Gleivitz

        You can tell about the organizers of “peaceful students”, “children”, and so on about Gleivitz. having committed, with their crimes, this same international legal nonsense, having committed a coup in Ukraine in February 2014
        1. revnagan 4 February 2020 14: 19 New
          • 1
          • 8
          -7
          Quote: Terenin
          And, is there anything that there are citizens of Russia born and living in the seventh generation?

          Are you raving? How can they be citizens of Russia, born in the USSR and living in Ukraine? No, you are definitely raving.
          Quote: Terenin
          But, what are the foreign armed bandits on the side of the Armed Forces doing in the civil conflict zone?

          And they were invited here by the Ukrainian government, the legitimacy of which was officially recognized, including by the Russian leadership.
          Quote: Terenin
          Oh, like A, did you talk about this to the ruling elite and the oligarchy of Ukraine?

          Oh, how are we now discussing the ruling elite and the oligarchs or the situation with the unlawful issuance of passports by Russia to Ukrainian citizens in the Donbass?
          Quote: Terenin
          You can tell about the organizers of “peaceful students”, “children”, and so on about Gleivitz. having committed, with their crimes, this same international legal nonsense, having committed a coup in Ukraine in February 2014

          Yeah, that is, now you have decided that it’s possible as “they”, right? But then what is better than you? And so brand them, so brand wink .
          1. Terenin 5 February 2020 22: 58 New
            • 6
            • 2
            +4
            Quote: revnagan
            Yeah, that is, now you have decided that it’s possible as “they”, right? But then what is better than you? And so brand them, so brand

            Again, Revnagan is talking to himself ... winked
            You, Russian in Ukrainian, are told 404 times that you had a Bandera coup. As a result, the inhabitants of Crimea returned to Russia. Donbass, while de jure Ukrainian, and de facto pro-Russian.
            Continue to rely further on the Russian liberal “fifth column”, especially in lawsuits, and practice the Anglo-Saxon international “jurisprudence”, which they also started if something is not in their interests.
            Yes, and continue to wait for the appearance of adequate leaders. Us what !? request After Kravchuk, they are all "more adequate" ...
            And if you climb on Donbass, not yours, the Ilovaysky and Debaltsovsky “boilers” will seem to you - a paradise! Do not no
            1. revnagan 6 February 2020 18: 47 New
              • 0
              • 7
              -7
              Quote: Terenin
              And if you climb on Donbass, not yours, the Ilovaysky and Debaltsovsky “boilers” will seem to you - a paradise!

              On our land, we ourselves will decide what, when and how to do it. Yes, and our army is far from the army of Old Man Makhno of 2014. So you can advise those who need your stupid advice, but I
              Quote: Terenin
              Do not
              .
              1. Terenin 6 February 2020 19: 24 New
                • 7
                • 2
                +5
                Quote: revnagan
                Quote: Terenin
                And if you climb on Donbass, not yours, the Ilovaysky and Debaltsovsky “boilers” will seem to you - a paradise!

                On our land, we ourselves will decide what, when and how to do it. Yes, and our army is far from the army of Old Man Makhno of 2014. So you can advise those who need your stupid advice, but I
                Quote: Terenin
                Do not
                .

                You have already "decided" on your land, having shot your people on the Maidan, burned them alive in the fire in Odessa and now destroying them in the Donbass by thousands.
                I look, very sensible ...
                1. revnagan 6 February 2020 19: 38 New
                  • 0
                  • 8
                  -8
                  Quote: Terenin
                  I look, very sensible ...

                  It is what it is laughing And envy is a bad feeling.
                  Quote: Terenin
                  You have already "decided" on your land, having shot your people on the Maidan, burned them alive in the fire in Odessa and now destroying them in the Donbass by thousands.

                  You won’t believe it, but there wasn’t any “us” anywhere you listed. “We” were on the bus that was driving on the “anti-Maidan.” We arrived at 05:00 in the morning to go to Kiev, and there we were waiting for important uncles who said -Mall, your help is not needed. Mol, the President said that they would do it. Well, they did it. But we only need Ukraine and all its resources ourselves, and we’ll not rob it under the slogans of the “Russian world” and “protection from Bandera” why. Not one of the organizers of the Donbass genocide was hurt, and the resources, territories and equipment from Ukraine flowed away ... By the way, where was Russia with "Russian world" when the events you listed took place? For example, in the same Odessa? In Mariupol? Why did the Bandera have both weapons and resources, and world support? Although there was a fie, they could grind it. But they turned out to be all right time in the right place. And those who were against their most-dispersed, unarmed and unorganized. "Let them just try!" And what? So do not "la-la". Russian oligarchs rob Ukrainian oligarchs under stories of justice and Russian world. And if it did not affect ordinary people ... yes robbery, we do not mind them. And so and they shift their toll on us, sorry, we tolerate Russia does not work with such a policy.
                  1. Golovan Jack 6 February 2020 21: 38 New
                    • 6
                    • 3
                    +3
                    Quote: revnagan
                    We ourselves need Ukraine and all its resources, and we don’t need to rob it under the slogans of the “Russian world” and “protection from Bandera”

                    They will sell it out before you have time to blink. "Their".

                    My condolences, colleague, but now you have something that we already drove in the 90s. And the end-edge of this is somehow not visible ... no?

                    Quote: revnagan
                    Why did Bandera have both weapons and resources, and world support?

                    Money, buddy. Big money. And big politics. Ukraine was needed as a torpedo, but, as we see, it did not work out. And now she, in general, is not really needed ...

                    Once again, my condolences. Sincere.
                    1. revnagan 7 February 2020 09: 43 New
                      • 0
                      • 3
                      -3
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      Ukraine was needed as a torpedo, but, as we see, it did not work out.

                      So far, it hasn’t happened. Ukraine has turned from a “torpedo” into a “mine.” From this it has not become less dangerous for Russia. It will work at the right time. And condolences will be useful to all of us.
                      1. Golovan Jack 7 February 2020 10: 04 New
                        • 2
                        • 2
                        0
                        Quote: revnagan
                        Ukraine from a "torpedo" simply turned into a "mine." From this, it did not become less dangerous for Russia. At the right time, it will work

                        Well, as they say - God forbid our calves, let’s eat the wolf.

                        Quote: revnagan
                        And condolences come in handy to us all

                        While they are suitable only for you. Buddy request
    6. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 3 February 2020 14: 21 New
      • 6
      • 6
      0
      Quote: Terenin
      Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in the Donbas (who received passports of Russian citizens) ... Why do not the “sanctions” imposed by the Russian Federation against them work ...?
      This is what! Take care of your surprise until the moment the amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation are adopted, when it turns out that the amendments aimed at increasing welfare do not work, and the amendments aimed at keeping the same people with the power leverage work great.
    7. Sailor 3 February 2020 15: 22 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Moreover, I personally saw a healthy forehead of 35-40 years old with a tattoo of the Azov battalion in May 2019 in SEVASTOPOL !!! And you say.
    8. Nikolai Grek 8 February 2020 21: 44 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Quote: Terenin
      The fact is that they are at war with us, and we are analyzing and making friends. Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in the Donbas (who have received passports of Russian citizens) ... Why do not the “sanctions” imposed by the Russian Federation against them work? ... Why are no laws passed on criminal prosecution of people who harm Russia? number and "fifth column"?

      all because, unfortunately, Uncle Vova considers the inhabitants of VNA to be fraternal people !!! negative
      1. Terenin 8 February 2020 22: 04 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: Nikolai Grek
        Quote: Terenin
        The fact is that they are at war with us, and we are analyzing and making friends. Ukraine is already killing Russian citizens in the Donbas (who have received passports of Russian citizens) ... Why do not the “sanctions” imposed by the Russian Federation against them work? ... Why are no laws passed on criminal prosecution of people who harm Russia? number and "fifth column"?

        all because, unfortunately, Uncle Vova considers the inhabitants of VNA to be fraternal people !!! negative

        Yes, something he stalled with evil spirits in power nenki negative
        1. Nikolai Grek 8 February 2020 22: 13 New
          • 1
          • 1
          0
          Quote: Terenin
          Yes, something he stalled with evil spirits in power nenki

          unfortunately, the matter is not in power ... the point is the vast majority of spineless inhabitants vna !!! negative however, he still considers them brothers, as a result of which he does not take any radical economic measures against Ukraine, so as not to worsen the life of the “simple innocent people” !!! request negative negative
          1. Terenin 8 February 2020 22: 27 New
            • 2
            • 0
            +2
            Quote: Nikolai Grek
            Quote: Terenin
            Yes, something he stalled with evil spirits in power nenki

            unfortunately, the matter is not in power ... the point is the vast majority of spineless inhabitants vna !!! negative however, he still considers them brothers, as a result of which he does not take any radical economic measures against Ukraine, so as not to worsen the life of the “simple innocent people” !!! request negative negative

            Oh, the GDP with this tolerance will be played out. Now, he dismissed the pro-Western liberal government and was left without cover ...
            1. Nikolai Grek 9 February 2020 00: 17 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              Quote: Terenin
              Oh, the GDP with this tolerance will be played out.

              hardly ... no one has canceled the HSP !!! wassat and it can work in the most unusual way at the right time !! laughing
  4. Hwostatij 3 February 2020 10: 28 New
    • 11
    • 1
    +10
    For all the fairly rich invariance of possible events
    The author himself, interestingly, understood what he wrote?)))
    1. DRM
      DRM 5 February 2020 15: 49 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Quote: Hwostatij
      For all the fairly rich invariance of possible events
      The author himself, interestingly, understood what he wrote?)))

      The author is not a reader, the author is a writer.
  5. 113262a 3 February 2020 10: 33 New
    • 9
    • 7
    +2
    Gently pulling the inevitable Russia drives the situevina into an unfavorable outcome! For 5 years, the fascists armed themselves and organized themselves, the hot phase of the future clash will be much bloodier and more expensive than in the 14th year. Delay with a cardinal decision only exacerbates. It will not be better.
    1. major147 3 February 2020 10: 43 New
      • 5
      • 1
      +4
      Quote: 113262
      Gently pulling the inevitable

      And what to do?
    2. ANB
      ANB 3 February 2020 10: 48 New
      • 5
      • 2
      +3
      What offer? Get in first yourself?
      This is unacceptable. Apart from the unknown reaction from the United States, at least in a guerrilla war, losses are always prohibitive.
      1. 113262a 3 February 2020 12: 40 New
        • 4
        • 2
        +2
        Voooot! And then what for these little articles? Commissars in a 14 shirt on his chest tore the maximum-year-and-a-half-and-Crimean scenario! They themselves didn’t come up with it. HERE THIS SONG started under the demobilization-unacceptable, reaction, etc. On NG met the inhabitants of the polls, now no one is serving. From the old. At the front end-incomplete. Think about it, and the 15-thousandths will run away from hopelessness. Who received the passports of the Russian Federation, many are already skiing! Russia is big. Will accept. And for those who are very smart, I change my mother-in-law's apartment, three-ruble apartment, in Slavyanoserbsk, improved, insulated, a view of the Donets in the Moscow region. Or Kaluga. Enough geopolitics ...
        1. ANB
          ANB 3 February 2020 14: 29 New
          • 2
          • 1
          +1
          They themselves didn’t come up with

          Colleague, I really respect the fighters of Donbass, but I’m afraid, myself.
          No wonder Strelkova (and colleagues) was then suddenly pulled out. And now he sits and whines that the DNR / LNR fse, surrender, without his sensitive leadership, nothing will come of it. Although he had nothing to do with Ilovaysk and Debaltseve.
          1. 113262a 3 February 2020 15: 26 New
            • 1
            • 2
            -1
            Doubtful. However! It intersected with the ghosts — at 14 they held the corridor from Semenovka to Lysychansk and the North. So, a week before the Strelkovtsy left Slavyansk, the Crimean variant was the main one. This corridor kept under it. And the movement there was not weak! Then, overnight, everything collapsed, Even the equipment in the North was abandoned. And they went to Alchevsk through Stakhanov and Pervomaisk.
    3. Alex Nevs 3 February 2020 18: 57 New
      • 0
      • 1
      -1
      You think? A head analysis is not?
      1. 113262a 3 February 2020 21: 18 New
        • 0
        • 1
        -1
        We are simple people, we don’t need riddles! I have been living here since I was 64 years old, I see and hear everything myself. At least once a week I have to go to Pionersky for all of these Pervomaisk, Sentyanivka, Merry Mountains and Nikolaevka. And mine do not think, my-know!))) From the front end on the Donets in a straight line to the center of Lugansk-11 km. The area of ​​Lugansk-Veselaya Gora and Vergunka-across the river from dill .. Donets-sparrow knee-deep. In the city, there are 200 thousand people-peacekeepers. How is it with the analysis?
    4. Nikolai Grek 3 February 2020 21: 57 New
      • 4
      • 1
      +3
      Quote: 113262
      hot phase of future collision

      who with whom ??? what
      1. 113262a 3 February 2020 22: 38 New
        • 1
        • 2
        -1
        Already wrote, on the other side svidomye in a low start position. They want to fight. Do not climb just because of the mud, the technique will not pass through the dirt road. Who with whom? In the artillery preparation, under the hand will be a parsnip, then fifteen thousandths, then ... everyone else. But the parsnip will be closed first.
        1. Odysseus 4 February 2020 01: 05 New
          • 1
          • 1
          0
          Quote: 113262
          Already wrote, on the other side svidomye in a low start position. They want to fight. Do not climb just because of the mud, the technique will not pass through the primer.

          It’s not a matter of debauchery. They have long been at a low start. The fact is that on their own svidomye nobody, without a signal from the Americans, they can not go anywhere. And they will get the go-ahead only when the United States receives guarantees of Russian non-interference. Otherwise, again the North Wind and August 2014.
          In Russia, of course, many people want to give up the Donbass, but the problem here is that the United States does not give any guarantees, either in the Crimea or under sanctions. By virtue of the promises of Europeans, the Kremlin does not believe. So donate the Donbass in a profitable edition also does not work. That’s it, everything is stuck in a dead end.
          An attack of ukrov is hypothetically possible without a Kremlin guarantee, but this is only after the US election and only if Trump loses.
        2. Alex Nevs 4 February 2020 10: 27 New
          • 1
          • 1
          0
          As for the low start, I have no doubt that I agree for a peaceful man, for "they want to fight" - here it depends on who. With the LPR, the DPR is a big question. The seven-boiler Valtsman army has not yet been forgotten. Although newcomers can be pushed into a bloody slaughter, so that they would not turn back with weapons. And for the peace man - I agree, the first will fall, BUT! (accepting such a sacrifice) there will be a reason to destroy everything APU ... for "the very tomatoes." I do not think that they will take full advantage of this occasion, but they will take advantage. It’s already getting bad about a peacekeeper. How many children died, and the reckoning is Seven Vyaliky Valtsman Kotlov. And that’s it. Only the Century MEDICINE = TIME for horses has been written out. Very Long and very sad horses.
          1. 113262a 4 February 2020 12: 19 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Here with time and strained! We are no longer here! Especially in front-line cities. The villages are even worse. People are dying and leaving. Soon there will be no one to sit in the trenches. And you won’t lure them with combat! And offices such as Diagnosis and other German composers are reeling up fishing rods. They are more interested in Syria and Africa.
  6. Gardamir 3 February 2020 10: 34 New
    • 8
    • 9
    -1
    Or Russia is a country on its own. Or we will play the role of suffering, who blame others for everything.
    Maybe it's not too late to start an independent policy for the good of the state? Or the current state is money bags, which determine the policy.
    1. Arlen 3 February 2020 13: 18 New
      • 5
      • 3
      +2
      Quote: Gardamir
      Maybe it's not too late to start an independent policy for the good of the state?

      Can. But for this, progressive national-patriotic forces must come to power.
    2. Alex Nevs 4 February 2020 10: 33 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Self?!?!?!? Is there a little money abroad? Independence and foreignness at the same time is absurd. Capitalism (money first of all) is at the cost of victims and even its population. This is not the USSR for you. Capitalism and socialism are antagonists. Socialism is only for those who support the operator (there is someone to exploit). He left work (well, there is no work); the social network is lost (social network is 2 rubles).
    3. Dmitry_24rus 4 February 2020 23: 42 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Yes that's right. Our position is terpil.
      On the 7th, there will be talks between Lukashenko and Putin.
      Lukash will take all his requirements +10 percent.
      He will come to Minsk and file new lawsuits against Russia.
      Such variations + -
  7. Ros 56 3 February 2020 10: 36 New
    • 4
    • 7
    -3
    And where and what can be seen if banderlog fundamentally charged for Russophobia. Here only a pathologist is needed. But they were going to hang us on knives. Therefore, it is for this reason that banderlogy should be eliminated as a state. And long ago, a powerful liquidation commission should be created on the basis of LDNR.
    1. Alex Nevs 3 February 2020 19: 00 New
      • 1
      • 2
      -1
      It is self-destructing, or rather, OLIVE and ORAKIT. Already the State Banks with their militants are standing on the stream, as if someone had not squeezed anyone out.
    2. Ros 56 3 February 2020 19: 10 New
      • 3
      • 1
      +2
      About how Banderlog hooked, immediately a bunch of minuses were set up by idiots, like something will change from this. Poor, what to take from them. Anyway, for me, Kovpak, Vershigora, Kozhedub and others like them will be Ukrainian, and not nits like Bandera and other creatures.
      1. Alex Nevs 4 February 2020 10: 35 New
        • 1
        • 1
        0
        Yes, it is normal. It’s not for them GondonaSMI and TSN to look and see. drinks
  8. Chervonny 3 February 2020 10: 39 New
    • 9
    • 2
    +7
    As you can see, “good” options between Kiev and Moscow are somehow not visible

    With such power as now in Ukraine no good relations are expected. If you look at the post-Soviet history, then Russia and Ukraine did not have normal relations. Since the collapse of the USSR, their authorities have been conducting anti-Russian politics. And to expect improvements between countries is not necessary.
    1. prior 3 February 2020 10: 52 New
      • 4
      • 10
      -6
      The USSR did not break up. He systematically collapsed Ukraine, Kravchuk.
      The Belarusian leader himself was not capable of this, he only sang along.
      Yeltsin did not need this.
      The situation took advantage of a descendant of Bandera Kravchuk.
      And he was breaking up the Union not in order to be friends with Russia, but to leave for Europe. What actually happens.
      Do not expect any progress from Ukraine towards improving relations.
      Either we forget and forget about it forever, or we need to decide by force.
      No middle ground.
      1. Sergey49 3 February 2020 11: 48 New
        • 6
        • 3
        +3
        Most of all, the collapse of the USSR was needed by Yeltsin. Because, otherwise, he lost power due to a conflict with Gorbachev. So before writing, it would be nice to know the materiel.
      2. Arlen 3 February 2020 13: 21 New
        • 5
        • 1
        +4
        Quote: prior
        Either we forget and forget about it forever, or we need to decide by force.
        No middle ground.

        Forget about our historical homeland? Kiev is the mother of Russian cities! It was possible to decide by force in 2014. Now the same force is possible, but only from the inside, through the protest movement.
        1. Alex Nevs 4 February 2020 10: 39 New
          • 0
          • 1
          -1
          Just imagine for a second wink , instead of Putin’s RF, the decision on a coup and military operations in the Donbass of Ukrovermaht would be decided by what thread BushObama. It would be like in Yugoslavia, they would have bombed Kiev and divided the entire 404 into small areas that are easier to manage. The protest movement dOOOlgo will begin, but very specifically. At the end are "messengers on their knees to the king." It was already.
      3. revnagan 3 February 2020 14: 01 New
        • 2
        • 4
        -2
        Quote: prior
        The USSR did not break up. He systematically collapsed Ukraine, Kravchuk.

        Half truth is worse than a lie. You know very well that of the four traitors who destroyed the USSR, two were ethnic Russians — Yeltsin and Gorbachev. If Shushkevich, Yeltsin and Gorbachev did not want the collapse of the USSR, no Kravchuk would have done anything. Moreover, the vast majority of residents The Ukrainian SSR voted in favor of preserving the Union. You should be ashamed of your lies.
        1. aries2200 3 February 2020 15: 37 New
          • 0
          • 4
          -4
          Yeltsin-Jew .. Ukrainian Gorbachev ... where the Russians came from ... Yeltsin’s father was the head of the political wreck camp .. the surname Eltsin in 37 was reposed for sadism
          1. Ros 56 4 February 2020 10: 57 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Is not Mordvin?
    2. Ros 56 4 February 2020 10: 56 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      Maybe you're right, I'm not talking about that. If you build on your idea, then the question legitimately arises - and what the hell was Chernomyrdin sitting there for many years, and what did he do there, sawing the butterflies? After all, could he not see anything, or had he specially closed his eyes?
      1. aries2200 4 February 2020 23: 36 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Chernomyrdin father of the patriarch, Gazprom ... Bobos shook
        On August 8, 1989, on the initiative of Viktor Chernomyrdin, the Ministry of Gas Industry was established on the basis of the first state concern in the USSR - Gazprom. On August 15, 1989, at the constituent meeting of the concern, Chernomyrdin was elected chairman of his board. He held this post until May 1992.
  9. Egor-dis 3 February 2020 10: 41 New
    • 3
    • 4
    -1
    Now tell us why the command of the LPR People's Republic of LNR forces the fighters to surrender the received Russian passports.
    1. New Year day 3 February 2020 11: 13 New
      • 4
      • 4
      0
      Quote: Egor-dis
      Now tell us why the command of the LPR People's Republic of LNR forces the fighters to surrender the received Russian passports.

      What is it like? Enlighten
    2. Arlen 3 February 2020 13: 22 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      Quote: Egor-dis
      Now tell us why the command of the LPR People's Republic of LNR forces the fighters to surrender the received Russian passports.

      Could you elaborate on this fact?
      1. Egor-dis 9 February 2020 23: 26 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Quote: Arlen
        highlight this fact in detail

        nothing to cover there. Since May 2019, as Putin has allowed to issue passports to simplify passports, they began to press to make out faster. Well issued, received. Now they are forced to surrender, who did not surrender - a report on the reason for failure and dismissal.

        Judging by the flown minuses, someone in the know, only the truth hurts his eyes.
        1. Arlen 9 February 2020 23: 30 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          Quote: Egor-dis
          Judging by the flown minuses

          My minus is not there. I just became interested.
          And what is the point of all this action, first to give out, and now to hand over?
          1. Egor-dis 10 February 2020 22: 13 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Quote: Arlen
            I just became interested.

            So I wonder why they do it. That's why I asked. But someone did not like my question.
  10. Chaldon48 3 February 2020 11: 46 New
    • 3
    • 3
    0
    If the Georgian version happens, that I can finish it as well, but with big losses due to the large size of the Square. They didn’t dare to enter the capital, as a result, we have a very hostile formation, which at any moment can turn into a springboard for an attack, I’m afraid the same thing can happen to Ukraine.
  11. Ezekiel 25-17 3 February 2020 12: 04 New
    • 2
    • 6
    -4
    The dialogue between Russia and Ukraine is IMPOSSIBLE in the current situation. I vote for option 2.
  12. Yehudi Menuhin 3 February 2020 12: 50 New
    • 2
    • 4
    -2
    A bad world is better than a good war. Moreover, any military result achieved will be worse than the pre-war state of affairs.
    1. Chaldon48 3 February 2020 13: 28 New
      • 0
      • 2
      -2
      A full-fledged military conflict can and should go only in two cases, if the enemy "wants" it, or as in this case, if Ukraine cannot resist the pressure of the United States on this issue, if the situation with the Russian-speaking population becomes such that it’s not interference Russia will mean a loss of face.
  13. Sergey Russky 3 February 2020 12: 55 New
    • 3
    • 3
    0
    that power that people are enemies of Russia
    1. Arlen 3 February 2020 13: 24 New
      • 6
      • 0
      +6
      Quote: Sergey Russian
      that power that people are enemies of Russia

      Which nation is the enemy of Russia? Ukrainian? Please clarify.
  14. iouris 3 February 2020 13: 19 New
    • 1
    • 2
    -1
    The relationship between "businessmen" is one thing (nothing personal, nothing official), the relationship between people ... they are not, because former Soviet people will soon die all ... and that's it. The scenario of the relationship between parts of the USSR is one - union or death.
  15. ANB
    ANB 3 February 2020 14: 31 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Quote: 113262
    treshka, in Slavyanoserbsk, improved, insulated, view of the Donets in dvu in the Moscow region

    Do not change.
  16. Zabvo 3 February 2020 14: 52 New
    • 2
    • 4
    -2
    Frankly "violet" to this country 404, that there as it is. I don’t understand those who like to suck this topic for 6 years, and it’s not long to go crazy.
    1. Terenin 3 February 2020 20: 31 New
      • 4
      • 1
      +3
      Quote: ZABVO
      Frankly "violet" to this country 404, that there as it is. I don’t understand those who like to suck this topic for 6 years, and it’s not long to go crazy.

      In silence, reconciliation, inaction, repentance ... are born ... Bandera
      1. Zabvo 4 February 2020 12: 30 New
        • 1
        • 3
        -2
        Let all these slogans you will tell young minds, but not to me.
        1. Terenin 5 February 2020 22: 38 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          Quote: ZABVO
          Let all these slogans you will tell young minds, but not to me.

          Well, as you say, if you really
          Quote: ZABVO
          and not go crazy for long.
  17. Sailor 3 February 2020 15: 15 New
    • 2
    • 1
    +1
    It was necessary not to “make a clap clack” in 2014 to our GDP, but to give Garinthy to Yanukovych and disperse this whole coven in the form of a Maidan, and people would be alive and good relations, and now every year we are moving more and more apart , and this is TWO BROTHERS of three.
    1. Alex Nevs 4 February 2020 10: 45 New
      • 1
      • 1
      0
      I do not agree. It could not be so. They hid Yanyk correctly. On the face of a coup !!!. And this word in international relations, if that is used, is unrequited. There was no critical mass (Lenin).
    2. DRM
      DRM 5 February 2020 16: 07 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Sailor
      It was necessary not to “make a clack clack” in 2014 to our GDP, but to give Garinty to Yanukovych and disperse this whole coven in the form of a Maidan

      Then there would be no Krymnash, Putin’s prohibitive rating before the elections and (most importantly) horror stories like: you won’t be submissive to the masters of life - it will be like in Ukraine. And so, - all according to KhPplan.
      1. Sailor 6 February 2020 09: 44 New
        • 0
        • 1
        -1
        With regards to the Crimea, I think this situation would have been beaten, so to speak, to help Yanukovych.
  18. aries2200 3 February 2020 15: 35 New
    • 1
    • 2
    -1
    it seems like it's time to think how we will use the captured Bandera in the Russian economy ...
    1. DRM
      DRM 5 February 2020 16: 09 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: aries2200
      it seems like it's time to think how we will use the captured Bandera in the Russian economy ...

      who is talking about, and what Arietz2200 dreams of concentration camps. here really "anti-fascism" here rolls over.
      1. aries2200 6 February 2020 18: 15 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        I dream that banderlog donbass rebuilt
  19. Odysseus 3 February 2020 16: 25 New
    • 8
    • 3
    +5
    About what to do
    1) To withdraw from the Minsk agreements, because Maidan Ukraine does not comply with them.
    2) Recognize the LC, the DNI.
    3) Demand from Maidan Ukraine the withdrawal of its occupying forces from the territory of Donetsk, Lugansk region
    4) In case of refusal to carry out together with the LPR, DPR a military operation to liberate the Donbass.
    5) Reunite Donbass with Russia.
    All this can be done in a short time. The only problem is the dependence of the Russian authorities on expensive "Western partners."
    1. Alex Nevs 4 February 2020 10: 46 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      From foreign money and you have to dance. The future - Only "from this stove to dance."
  20. Terenin 3 February 2020 20: 26 New
    • 5
    • 0
    +5
    Quote: Odyssey
    For which all who commit them and all their accomplices will be liable without limitation.

    Be sure to be responsible. And yet, perhaps, to recall Putin as a loyal ruler ...
  21. 113262a 3 February 2020 21: 22 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    The fact that Ukrainians do not climb through Donetsk is an accident! The weather let us down! Plus temperature, dirt and rain. The technique will not work. And so everything is in a state of low start.
  22. ilik54 4 February 2020 15: 16 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Putin, with a stroke of the pen, deprived all the illusions of ukro-Bandera fascists, the United States, the EU and NATO, for the war between Ukraine and Russia. He, Putin, made them like little blind and helpless puppies easily and simply.
    Putin is the true owner of planet Earth.
    A completely different socio-political process is being planned here.
    The fact is that after obtaining Russian citizenship the main part of Ukrainians, the state of Ukraine, as a state, can simply disappear, “like dew to the sun,” just like the Ukrainian hymn says, only the enemies themselves will disappear, but Ukraine itself.
    After obtaining Russian citizenship by the soldiers and commanders of the DPR and LPR, these armies will already be Russian.
    Then the APU will already really be at war with Russia.
    That's it!
    And that will be a completely different story.
    And all this mouse fuss with the withdrawal of troops, with the law on land, with television shows, with the return of sailors and ships is just a smokescreen for Svidomo Selyuk and the West from the USA.
    Death ukro-Bandera slaves!
    Death to the enemies and traitors of Russia!
  23. Yury Siritsky 5 February 2020 17: 47 New
    • 0
    • 1
    -1
    He blamed the Soviet Union, and therefore Ukraine as well. I think that normal people will not forgive him. And most of them.
  24. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 7 February 2020 21: 33 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    This is called an elephant in a china shop. This is me about the policy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Russia towards Ukraine and specifically to this article. Thinner is necessary, and cynical, by the way, gentlemen ...
  25. Aleksandr1971 12 February 2020 09: 18 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Why does the author not consider the option when it will be possible to carry out a coup in Ukraine with the help of Russian special services? In this case, it is possible to rebuild the relationship exactly the opposite. And even if the pro-Russian regime is unstable and will be overthrown, it is possible and useful to conduct a territorial division of this country along the diagonal north-west / south-east. In general, it is strange that not only the author of this article, but also in many other media outlets for some reason does not consider the option of organizing a coup d'etat. Of course there will be difficulties. But do Western countries shy away from government coups? In any case, this is better than direct invasion. However, combinations of options are also possible: to hold a coup d'état in Ukraine, and then, at the request of the new leadership of the country, send Russian troops (or "volunteer miners") east and south. Otherwise, pro-American Ukraine will be the same for Russia as for East Germany - West Berlin. In general, I am for the pro-Russian state coup in Ukraine. How to spend it? Mb by forces of special forces to liquidate part of the leadership of Ukraine, and part to bribe. To do all of a sudden.