"Su-35 is not effective": in Indonesia, advocated the transition to an advanced fighter

The potential of the Russian Su-35 fighter is significantly limited in comparison with more advanced aircraft of its class. This opinion was voiced by the retired Indonesian air defense commander Eris Hariyanto on the pages of IndoAviation, listing four reasons.

Firstly, the Su-35 is a development of the previous type, namely the Su-27 fighter. He was surprised when Jakarta decided to purchase this car, since at that time there was already a 5th generation platform on the world market with stealth capabilities [apparently, it's about F-35]. According to him, the Su-35 is able to prove itself only at a low flight speed.

As he points out, in the early years of independence, Indonesia acquired a number of advanced aircraft: Tu-16 strategic bombers, OV-10 and P-51 reconnaissance aircraft, F86F, MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19 and MiG- fighter jets 21. In modern conditions, a similar approach is required - to bet on the 5th generation jet stealth fighter.

Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar, inferior in terms of the effectiveness of the radar with AFAR. At the same time, many platforms already have an advanced radar station, including Saab JAS 39E / F Gripen, Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon.

Thirdly, the Su-35 is large for a class of fighter jets, therefore, in his words, “it is easy for an enemy aircraft to detect it.” Hariyanto, who previously flew the F-16 Fighting Falcon and F-5 Tiger II, explains that in modern air battles, airplanes that are able to detect the enemy first have a chance to win.

Fourth, he believes that aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world. At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.

Comments

[svp67]

At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.

Well, this is a common practice now, the main thing is "to throw more on the fan", and then the matter will unfold ... I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?

[Same lech]

This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

[svp67]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

I'm afraid that not only her, but all this civilization

[krot]

In my opinion, Indonesia is still more effective than spears and bow with arrows))))
Papuans, in a word.

[svp67]

Quote: krot

In my opinion, Indonesia is still more effective than spears and bow with arrows))))

You shouldn’t be so. The country is dynamically developing, with the largest, most numerous Muslim population ...

[orionvitt]

Quote: svp67

with the largest, most numerous Muslim population ..

I think this is a big plus? Which should (simply must) provide Indonesia with an unprecedented leap and prosperity.

[krot]

You shouldn’t be so. The country is dynamically developing, with the largest, most numerous Muslim population ...

The Sumerians are over there, also "dynamically" developing
Why, is such a developed economy out of its own, it only produces palm oil .. (bananas, coconuts) Do not count the production of world corporations brought there because of the cheap labor, which, if desired, will be minimized. Yes, and they do not have enough cash, everywhere they shove their oil with palm barter))
My suspicions that ours simply did not agree to the "oil deal of the century" is in the hearts of the general and slanders about "Sushki".

[orionvitt]

Quote: krot

only palm oil and produces ..

Actually, about palm oil, the conversation was with Malaysia. (They are the most important for this product in the world) And about the largest Muslim population, probably the same there. Someone here has mixed up something.

[krot]

Actually, about palm oil, the conversation was with Malaysia

Did Indonesia want to buy from us for currency?

[Alex777]

Both Malaysia and Indonesia strove to palm palm oil.
We do not need oil, they - Su-35. And that's right anyway.

[Sergej1972]

Indonesia has a population of 266 million. The fourth country in the world in this indicator, after the PRC, India, and the USA. And the largest Muslim country in the world in terms of population. And the territory is almost 2 million square meters. km In Malaysia, the people a little more than 30 million, and an area of ​​approximately 330 thousand square meters. km So, Malaysia cannot compete with Indonesia either in terms of population or territory.

[svp67]

Quote: orionvitt

I think this is a big plus? Which should (simply must) provide Indonesia with an unprecedented leap and prosperity.

This is a big plus for us to have "such a partner"

[zloybond]

Only this country is still paying with us exclusively palm oil, which the world refuses and our merchants for the people solely for recreational purposes, all payments are only in oil and accept yes profits are calculated premium

[avg avg]

You should be careful about flogging nonsense so that it does not die prematurely. He will die and you will have no topics left for drafts. Russia is the ninth in terms of oil purchases. According to the consumption of palm oil per capita, Russia consumes 5,3-5,5 kg per person per year per capita. About the same amount is consumed in the UK. Whereas, for example, in Belgium this figure reaches 30 kg, Sweden - almost 12 kg, Denmark - 15,4 kg
Something like that..

[vadim dok]

Only in contrast to the Russian Federation, the majority of palm oil goes to industry, and ONLY the highest class oil and a very small amount go to the food industry!

[zoland]

And why not pay, if they take

[EvilLion]

For thousands of years, everyone in the world has been eating this palm oil of yours, and no one has any questions about it. At the same time, in terms of space requirements, palm oil is much cheaper. Normal vegetable fat. You can just as easily run into pineapples, because this curiosity in central Russia is also not growing.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

No. Not in vain.

[unmer]

I've been waiting for everything, on the contrary * Kalashnikov * somebody blather?

[Leeds]

Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar, inferior in terms of the effectiveness of the radar with AFAR. At the same time, many platforms already have an advanced radar station, including Saab JAS 39E / F Gripen, Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon.

Is that true? ...

[kjhg]

Quote: Leeds

Is that true ?.

Is this news for you? On the Su-35 there is a radar with PFAR. The first domestic radar with AFAR was developed for the Mig-35, but for some reason the Moscow Region purchases Migi with a long-obsolete radar with a slot antenna. The AFAR Squirrel for the Su-57 is also being developed.

[aleksey980]

Quote: kjhg

Quote: Leeds

Is that true ?.

Is this news for you? On the Su-35 there is a radar with PFAR. The first domestic radar with AFAR was developed for the Mig-35, but for some reason the Moscow Region purchases Migi with a long-obsolete radar with a slot antenna. The AFAR Squirrel for the Su-57 is also being developed.

I think that the MOs are not fools either (at least the majority) and are purchased in accordance with the developed conditions and tactics of use, in combination with other air and ground radars, within their MiGs, radius.
Fighter to fighter combat in our time is a special case, which in importance and overall effect, is somewhere in the backyards. So, I do not exclude that the solution is well calculated. The budget is not so rubbery. )))
Plus, these can be riveted faster and more in case of urgent need and the transfer of industry to martial law. And here there is just a very alarming bell (more precisely, one of them, recently) that this MO's rate is on the "mass factor", and not on "the most-most for measuring pi..skami", not without reason ... can't help but scare ... I hope it's just paranoia played out.

[EvilLion]

PFAR does not differ much from AFAR in terms of functionality. MiGi MO does not want to take it at all, possibly because of the real state of affairs with radars of the "Zhuk" family.

[sivuch]

In principle, yes, ceteris paribus, AFAR has an advantage over VFAR. But, as always and everywhere - there are nuances. For example, the size (in this case, the size of the radar antenna) still matters.

[Passing]

And what exactly upsets you?
Su-35
PFAR: sees EPR 1m2 up to 270 km, the number of targets 30
Eurofighter Typhoon
AFAR: sees EPR 1m2 at 165-220 km, the number of targets> 20
Dassault Rafale C / B / M
AFAR: sees an EPR of 1 m2 on 110-130 km, the number of targets is 40
JAS 39E / F NG Gripen
AFAR Raven ES-05 sees EPR 1m2 at 150 km, the number of targets> 14

[sivuch]

Question addressed to me? So I, in fact, about this. With such small plates as Rafal and Gripen, there will not be a particularly long range even with AFAR

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Passing by

And what exactly upsets you?
Su-35
PFAR: sees EPR 1m2 up to 270 km, the number of targets 30
Eurofighter Typhoon
AFAR: sees EPR 1m2 at 165-220 km, the number of targets> 20
Dassault Rafale C / B / M
AFAR: sees an EPR of 1 m2 on 110-130 km, the number of targets is 40
JAS 39E / F NG Gripen
AFAR Raven ES-05 sees EPR 1m2 at 150 km, the number of targets> 14

I totally agree.
Everyone was hooked - AFAR and AFAR give, as if he would radically change something in the range of target detection.
The best fighter is not the most expensive and stuffed according to the latest trends - this is the workhorse of the Air Force / VKS, which should not be expensive to build and maintain. Su-35 in this respect is the golden mean - good high-torque AL-41F1-S engines with excellent resource, good radar, OLS there is, which is not, for example, on the same F-22.
And it costs the Su-35 for the relatives of the VKS two times cheaper than the unfinished Su-57. And all the more cheaper F-35 and F-22

[Sergey39]

Quote: svp67

I'm afraid that not only her, but all this civilization

I'm afraid it's too late to fear. Civilization is doomed. But hope dies last. And the Papuans will be able to start a new civilization.

[CBR600]

Quote: svp67

Quote: The same LYOKHA

This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

I'm afraid that not only her, but all this civilization

Absolutely agree. And not so long left. Plus

[IL-18]

Yes? They have nowhere to put spices, as soon as Rsoboronexport takes them to the maximum in payment, the Su-35s will exceed all their expectations.

[Alexey LK]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

This country will be destroyed by the lack of buyers for their main export product - palm oil, for which they want to buy fighter jets through barter.

[Chaldon48]

Why give concrete numbers as arguments, the most important is the Russian consumer, which means a priori bad, for which articles it does not matter. Big Host nods his head means everything is in order.

[svp67]

Quote: Chaldon48

the most important is the Russian consumer

I don’t agree with this, the fighter could be both European and Chinese, the main thing here is to force them to buy AMERICAN.

[Real Vugluskr]

The question is different, with whom the poor Indonesia was going to fight on the F-35x? With Papua? The Philippines?

[Yuri Simple]

Not as rich as it seems. But the practice of calculating palm oil should be stopped. Bad fighter? For God's sake. By the way, isn’t it time to abolish customs privileges for the import of palm oil into Russia? And yes, check all negotiators for their expenses against their income.

[Stone]

Who will ask you.

[Sergej1972]

Still, the fourth country in terms of population in the world. PPP GDP is slightly less than Russian, but more than Brazilian. Large territory plus water area. There are ambitions. They were going to fight in the 60s. with Malaysia, but then changed their minds.

[Alekseev]

That's right!
apparently, it is not possible to change the drying to palm oil.

[bessmertniy]

There was no this oil and did not die of hunger. Let's get along. Every Indonesian pensioner thinks of himself as an expert. Again, it is not a pensioner in Indonesia who decides on the supply of weapons.

[EvilLion]

Nobody was even going to import this oil, especially since Oboronexport does not need it.

[Mikhalych 70]

And it will turn out to change for "Raptors" ?! Or are they loaned out for the new democracy to everyone?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: svp67

At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.

Well, this is a common practice now, the main thing is "to throw more on the fan", and then the matter will unfold ... I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?

And why is the article also not given any numbers? Maybe the author also wants to throw on the fan. For me, if you want to refute, then you must provide numbers, not letters

[smart ass]

Well, about the fact that it costs more than f35, I doubt very much

[Ka-52]

According to him, the Su-35 is able to prove itself only at a low flight speed.

The Su-35 is large in size for a class of fighter jets, therefore, in his words, “it is easy for an enemy aircraft to detect it”

aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world.

it immediately becomes clear what the person who was flying on the planes writes maybe the Indonesian airlines.

I wonder how much his "revelation" was worth in monetary terms?

a statement pulled out of the nose about a cheaper service speaks of an explicit order. I think this "expert" did not even come close to seeing the NTERA documents

[iouris]

Quote: Ka-52

a statement pulled out from the nose for cheaper service speaks of a clear order

You are not an expert, but a general after all - an expert in your field (Indonesian). By default, our defense systems have always lagged behind American ones in terms of operational technology. In the United States, since the 1950s, aircraft performance characteristics (in particular, speed) are not decisive, and very stringent requirements are imposed on operational manufacturability. And it also happened with us: "The designer is dry, the plane is wet, and the technician is wet." In addition, for thirty years, the manufacturer has been guaranteeing the operator a given level of equipment availability throughout the entire life cycle of a "product" (complex system) within the framework of an "integrated logistics system" that includes spare parts, services, training, and simulations. Therefore, the price of the "question" includes a lot that escapes the attention of the public.

[iouris]

Efficiency is a (mainly qualitative) characteristic that characterizes the ratio between the costs (for solving the problem) and the beneficial effect. Costs take into account the estimated damage due to combat and non-combat losses and operating costs. All these quantitative indicators, as a rule, are not fully taken into account, and if military operations are not being conducted, then, strictly speaking, it is impossible to give quantitative and qualitative assessments of the effectiveness of the combat aviation complex. In general, expert assessments are of practical value in making decisions, but it should be borne in mind that these assessments are subjective. And although "developed subjectivity" tends to objectively reflect a phenomenon or process, it is, of course, not identical to the objective one.
In the USSR Air Force (and, of course, in the United States), such assessments were given by research institutes (I think the "thirty"), and not by marshals. In Indonesia, such organizations may also exist (but not a fact).
It can also be assumed that Indonesia simply does not need a plane like the Su-35.

[shark]

Don't you think that the SU-35 is being overly "heroized"? However, like the F-35.

[iouris]

Apparently, the third is not given.
However, the word "heroize" does not apply either to hard ("hardware") or to software ("software"), and an airplane is a complex system that includes both.

[eklmn]

“At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator. ”
And this is the fault of the Ministry of Trade of the military-industrial complex of Russia that there are no such numbers, they are not secret.
I dug something:
June 2017
https://inosmi.ru/military/20180614/242475904.html
“Russia announced to China the cost of the Su-35 fighter. The price of one Su-35 is more expensive than the American F-35 by $ 10 million. ”
“The reason the average price of a contract for a Su-35 fighter to be bought by China is more expensive than an American F-35 is largely due to the“ package, ”which includes a lot of services. ”
But Americans, when concluding a contract, include services.
Here, on the website, in the article “Poland signed a purchase contract
F-35 ”there are numbers:
“The cost of the contract was $ 4,6 billion, and in addition to supplying the aircraft themselves, each of which cost Poland $ 87 million, it includes training for Polish pilots, the supply of flight simulators, and logistics support.”
Those. the retired general is right somewhere - if they are comparable in terms of money, then in “modern air battles, airplanes that are able to detect the enemy first” have a chance to win, and this is the F-35.

[EvilLion]

The Su-35 developer claims that the Irbis can even see the F-22 90 km away. What then to say about the F-35. If you don't trust the designer of the Su-35, then you shouldn't trust the developers of the F-35 either.

The first enemy to ever see ground-based radars and AWACS aircraft.

[eklmn]

“The developer of the Su-35 claims that the Irbis can even see the F-22 90 km away. "
EvilLion, “seeing” and “seeing so as to direct a rocket” are two different things.
Over 90 km, the F-22 will be seen as a hindrance - neither identify nor point. At 60 km, the aircraft will be identifiable and captured by a rocket.
On the other hand, the F-35 (APG-81 radar with a GaSa module) will see the enemy’s aircraft at a range of approx. 400 km and an air-to-air missile with a distance of 150-300 km (depending on version) will destroy the enemy.

[Zoro]

Quote: svp67

At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.

Well, this is a common practice now, the main thing is "to throw more on the fan", and then the matter will unfold ... I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?

Now they say one thing, tomorrow another .. Russian weapons do not need advertising, we proved this in the 45th And now we prove in real combat trials ..

[Izotovp]

It’s necessary to earn some money in retirement. Looking for someone to sell. She still doesn’t know who to lobby for, so she lists everyone in bulk.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Izotovp

It’s necessary to earn some money in retirement. Looking for someone to sell. She still doesn’t know who to lobby for, so she lists everyone in bulk.

Well, the former (regardless of profession, the main position is higher), they are ...

This opinion voiced retired commander indonesian air defense eris jarianto

[Reserve officer]

Pavel, the same thought came to mind. The article mentions four reasons. Fifth - "you have to make some money on retirement."

[Vladimir_2U]

Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar

The words of the pilot! True, Donald McKryak was also a pilot, in a way.

[Avior]

All the same, Zigzag McQuack (Lunchpad McQuack)
You probably confused him with Donald Duck or Donald Trump
But those non-pilots will seem to be

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Avior

All the same, Zigzag McQuack (Lunchpad McQuack) smile
You probably confused him with Donald Duck or Donald Trump

This is such a collective image of the pilot, in a way. )))

[Alex 2020]

Honestly, the strange logic and statements of this first ... retired commander. Although, what kind of money can you say? I’m wondering, will they buy airplanes for palm oil from Europeans and Merikos?

[viktor_ui]

Betel betrayed chewing at the leisure of this retired person ... but there is also a rational grain in his claims: where is the AFAR on the Su-35 (expensive type?) And he nods at the existing backlog in the avionics of drying (correct if it’s wrong because it’s not special and info I draw from where it comes from). It is already quite often becoming the norm, which many say about the technological backlog of exported goods. Really need the expert opinion of a pro in avionics and other personal belongings in aviation.

[Timx]

many talk about technological lag exported

And what is so surprising here, you have not heard in what state the electronic industry is with us?
It’s not bad that we drive junk for export, but that our troops get even more junk, since there is no way to put components from France, Israel, Great Britain or South Africa ...

[viktor_ui]

Timur, I know what and how in terms of electronics and software components in the civil sector ... I am an IT specialist in civilian life. So I am interested in the calculations of military experts: does the SU-35 avionics meet the challenges of the time ... or are they completing them on the basis of "no money, but you hold on." Indonesia is like a country closer to the third world ... but if they have already begun to make FI in terms of filling dryers, then this is not a GUT for sure. And bad dancers-suppliers always get in the way of candelabra.

[Timx]

I am an IT specialist in citizen

So you do not need to tell that `` a competently drawn up technical specification (technical task) is already half the battle '', at this stage we most often have problems - people ordering the development of technology very vaguely understand what they need and how always in such cases, the developer himself writes a technical specification for himself (such as not to overstrain himself, of course), and the customer from the MO can only sign where they say ... Hence, it is necessary to start in search of an answer to the question, '' and why is it that's how we do it. ''

[viktor_ui]

I absolutely agree in terms of competently drawn up TOR (task managers used to call such people) ... but there is one thing - there is little that depends on the pros, because defective managers and other fashionable optimizers can easily overwhelm any well-developed competent solution for the sake of their interests ... I myself am witnessing how they ruined high-tech production. Yes ... if a customer from MO stupidly puts his signature on the fact that he is palmed off by the supplier without the technical expertise of the order, then such a customer is either a ram or a share. Personally, I advocate the development of the technology area entrusted to me with a competent explanation to amateurs to save on future consequences. Therefore, I and the system work confidently and smile and wave

[EvilLion]

That is, processors with a frequency of 220 MHz on the F-22 do you think PPC what new?

[Elephant]

Do you consider modern Russian processors (Baikal, etc.) manufactured using the 65-nm process technology to be competitive news?

[Nick]

Quote: Elephant

Do you consider modern Russian processors (Baikal, etc.) manufactured using the 65-nm process technology to be competitive news?

The manufacturer announces the imminent entry to the market of the Russian Elbrus-16C processor, which should be produced using 16nm process technology and at the same time have a competitive price.

[abrakadabre]

I'm wondering how this happens technically? A certain pepper comes / calls / writes in the media, it appears: "I am such and such, I have an opinion to say on the topic of universal importance ..."? And the media, having taken an interview, immediately rushes "into the embrasure" with him at the ready?
Well yes, you were someone there. But now who are you and what are you responsible for? Moreover, the opinion of an air defense officer about fighters ... Maybe we will ask a military cook? Or the quartermaster.

And then:

Fourth, he believes that aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world.

That straight F35 cheap at cheap to maintain, in comparison with the line of Su? And what can the air defense know, and not the air force?

[orionvitt]

Quote: abrakadabre

I'm wondering how this happens technically? Comes / calls / writes some pepper in the media, it seems:

First, some structures lobbying their interests are looking for the target of an information attack (in this case, Russian aircraft), and a certain amount of money will be allocated for this. Then in the corrupt media (they are almost all corrupt), a series of previously written articles and reports on this topic is paid for. The entire Internet is re-posted and ready. And the "author" himself (in this case, the retired commander of the Indonesian air defense system Eris Hariyanto), maybe he hasn't even seen these articles. Received a small share, for the "authoritative name" here's an increase to your pension.

[Yuri Simple]

Then in the corrupt media (they are almost all corrupt)

Media is a business. The same as its other types. You don’t stress: “I bought a new car from a corrupt Renault” I wonder why? Or: "The sales company Mercedes makes luxury cars. But it does it solely for profit!" Although it is for this that she makes her cars. And not at all so that you would be comfortable and comfortable to ride in it. Selling company, whatever one may say. And when a newspaper like "Indonesian Worker" or "Evening Jakarta" sells something to you, then they are certainly corrupt. It's strange.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Yuri Simple

Media is a business.

And is this normal in your opinion? Everywhere lies and lies. And no one is responsible for anything. Medicine business, media business, education business, love business, all business. And then we complain that the world smacks of a certain substance. Actually, the media, according to the Western model, is not a business, it is an information weapon in the hands of certain structures. And business, this is secondary. But no one disdains to make money on this. They just don’t pay for the truth, though nobody usually needs the truth. That lie is paid very dearly. In the West, all business.

[abrakadabre]

Actually, the media, according to the Western model, is not a business, it is an information weapon in the hands of certain structures.

One does not interfere with the other. Just which side to look at. For the direct management / owner of the media is a business. For the customer of the information wave or the owner of the upper level - this is an instrument of information war.
In this sense, a complete analogy with PMCs is both a business and a political tool. Moreover, politics does not exclude left-hand side jobs.

[Farewell]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar

The words of the pilot! True, Donald McKryak was also a pilot, in a way.

This is an obvious jamb of a journalist or translator. Obviously, this refers to a radar with a passive phased antenna array, and it is compared with a radar with AFAR.

[Adimius38]

Well, there is some truth here, the Su-35 really has a passive radar and not AFAR. Therefore, as long as "effective" top managers sit in the field, arranged by pull and call, we will lose a foreign customer and the trend is now unfavorable for us. Even our traditional buyers of weapons are abandoning our weapons. We can tell our electorate on the first channel about the best of the best, but in fact the world does not stand still and if we do not keep up with the times, then our Su-35 will really not be needed by anyone.

[master 52]

Well, they come to us with a normal radar, but for export everyone makes truncated versions and what F-35 has there is a big question

[Avior]

I will disappoint you, also with PFAR, as well as for export

[adept666]

I will disappoint you, also with PFAR, as well as for export

The same PFAR, but not so ...

[Timx]

The same PFAR, but not so ...

Oh well, and there are a lot of differences (fundamentally important differences)?

[adept666]

Oh well, and there are a lot of differences (fundamentally important differences)?

Other phase shifters, another type of TWT. This allows you to implement the operating modes of the station inaccessible radar Irbis-E and Bars.

[adept666]

really possesses passive radar and not AFAR

What is there no transmitter? Where did you go?

[Prjanik]

We have AFARs on the MiG-35 and Su-57, but they don’t put on the Su-35, apparently they don’t see the point and special advantage over its PFAR. We are working on promising ROFARs.

[malyvalv]

And they’re doing it right. The value of aircraft radars is greatly exaggerated. It’s like a lit flashlight in the hands of a soldier conducting a night battle in the steppe. Its value looks doubtful.
For drummers of the MIG-35 and Su-57 type, a radar is needed for strikes on the ground. SU-35 is a pure fighter.

[kit88]

It's like a lit flashlight

You are not entirely correct. This is not a lit flashlight. These are "eyes". A fighter without a "radar" is a soldier who is leading a night battle in the steppe blindfolded and ears covered.

PS /
No, maybe I didn't fully understand you, and the "soldier" has earphones from the walkie-talkie in his ears, and he follows orders from the command post - "azimuth 30, elevation 60, armor-piercing Fire!", Then there is something to discuss.
Indeed, then you can do without a radar and attack the targets at the coordinates received from an external source. But this is the next level.

[Timx]

We have AFARs on the MiG-35 and Su-57

There are prototypes, `` handicrafts '', assembled on the knee `` with the world on a string '' - for their serial production it is necessary to build a plant of receiving-transmitting modules (and there are `` sanctioned '' technologies ...), as well as to re-equip the final assembly shops and the laboratory testing complex, as for all other miracle weapons (for example, Armat, Zirkonov, Okhotnikov) - and not sit waiting for a miracle, so that everything itself somehow it turned out without extra costs (money, human, intellectual) ...

[Gaersul]

Quote: TimX

for their serial production, it is necessary to build a plant of receiving and transmitting modules (and there are `` sanctioned '' technologies ...)

Dear, can you find out what kind of "sanction" technologies are there? Exactly in the receiving and transmitting modules? Installation there is hellish - that is what it is.

[rocket757]

Is this an analysis, a real assessment of military equipment? Not interested.
Just one more drop (expert opinion) on the scales of competition .....

[master 52]

I think 5 years of its operation in Syria by an idiot has made it clear that the plane is good

[Real Vugluskr]

The idiot gave, but the idiot did not.

The use of a fighter as a fighter on the enemy without air defense and the air force - everything is immediately clear, yes.

[Thrifty]

Buy hang gliders, they are smaller! At least he sat in the cockpit of Su35 for a couple of minutes, or, hoping for a rollback, sang his song about "bad Su35" ??? Buy f35, you will go around the world with its supply and maintenance!

[Zaurbek]

There is some truth in this:
- Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Zaurbek

There is some truth in this:
- Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

[Zaurbek]

It is already necessary to upgrade the Su35S. The Americans are already introducing its direct competitor, the F-15EX. Moreover, the competitor and Su35 and Su30 and Su34 .. all rolled into one. And there is AFAR, very powerful.
And the MiG-35S is our offer in a smaller size. No offers, no sales in this size. All. There is a new generation F-16 on the market, there is Grippen, there is J-10 with AFAR, there will be FT-17 with AFAR. It is the J-10 with AFAR that will compete with the MiG35S

[tomket]

Quote: FRoman1984

The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

MiG-35 under a different name in Egypt is successfully going. Can you explain why the project is dead? On some points, it is more advanced than the Su-35. And if Zhuk-A is still finished, then it will be just the first domestic aircraft with AFAR, which is what various potential buyers in the person of retired commanders crave.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: tomket

Quote: FRoman1984

The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

MiG-35 under a different name in Egypt is successfully going. Can you explain why the project is dead? On some points, it is more advanced than the Su-35. And if Zhuk-A is still finished, then it will be just the first domestic aircraft with AFAR, which is what various potential buyers in the person of retired commanders crave.

The car does not belong to the light class, but it does not even reach the heavy ones. Both radars (Zhuk-A, Zhuk-M) are weak against, for example, Irbis. The engines have not undergone major changes in comparison with the AL-31F1 \ AL-41F1S. What is its role in the presence of the Su-30SM, Su-35? "Light" frontline fighter?
They can’t finish the radar, they have been talking about Zhuk-A for about 10 years (offhand), they are carrying it in a single copy. I read an interview with Tarasenko, says that Zhuk-A is optional. In the VKS planes will go without him.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: FRoman1984

Quote: Zaurbek

There is some truth in this:
- Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

This is how to compare the power of the iron in which the coals are laid with a modern iron, the first is undoubtedly more powerful, it burns clothes easily. Read at least a little bit before writing, you look and Spanish shame from your comments will be less

[sivuch]

Yes, they read it for a long time. The advantages of AFAR over PFAR (ceteris paribus) are far from being so critical and far from always can be realized. Although, as an advertising lure for potential buyers, it works well.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Vol4ara

Quote: FRoman1984

Quote: Zaurbek

There is some truth in this:
- Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

This is how to compare the power of the iron in which the coals are laid with a modern iron, the first is undoubtedly more powerful, it burns clothes easily. Read at least a little bit before writing, you look and Spanish shame from your comments will be less

Read. And here a lot has been written by colleagues and explained.
The net benefits are significant and certainly not critical. Comparison with the iron is incorrect.
You worry about yourself and be ashamed of your ignorance, you don’t need to, I’ll figure it out myself. :)

[Vol4ara]

Quote: FRoman1984

Quote: Vol4ara

Quote: FRoman1984

Quote: Zaurbek

There is some truth in this:
- Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

This is how to compare the power of the iron in which the coals are laid with a modern iron, the first is undoubtedly more powerful, it burns clothes easily. Read at least a little bit before writing, you look and Spanish shame from your comments will be less

Read. And here a lot has been written by colleagues and explained.
The net benefits are significant and certainly not critical. Comparison with the iron is incorrect.
You worry about yourself and be ashamed of your ignorance, you don’t need to, I’ll figure it out myself. :)

They read poorly. Here most couch experts write. The benefits are significant. With the iron, the comparison is correct. I don’t worry about you.

[FRoman1984]

Then why are you here? Be smart about sitting? Call all experts sofas, like, and pretend to be a flash of knowledge in this topic? Pass by the next time, if you have nothing to say in essence. Do not bother to argue with couch experts.

[tomket]

Quote: Zaurbek

- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

Where is the MiG late? Until we or China put up for sale a full 5th generation lightweight fighter, the MiG-35 until then will be relevant. The Japanese are different there so they will buy the F-35, they like to buy MiG and did not plan. And among the direct competitors of the MiG, the French are not yet visible for the 5th generation.

[Zaurbek]

Compare with J-10 with AFAR. It’s quite a competitor.

[tomket]

Quote: Zaurbek

Compare with J-10 with AFAR. It’s quite a competitor.

Buying an exterminator is generally not just an airplane purchase, but a political statement. Who will the Chinese sell their exterminator to? To vietnam? Yeah. Or the same Poles? Already standing in line. In fact, the number of countries ready to immediately purchase Chinese products is very limited

[Zaurbek]

The product is either there or not. A heavy fighter is an expensive pleasure. The most massive F16 format is the only competitive offer in this J10 weight. Asians will not buy ... but Arabs will buy. Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Latin America ...

[Timx]

Yes, no one will buy it from among the serious players, since there is the technology of the Israeli Lavi, consider the American military-industrial complex, and the engines are our Salutov from the Su-27
Even their closest ally and partner in the manufacture of aircraft, Pakistan, still does not even stutter about the desire to purchase them (and they really need it against the Indian Su-30MKI with brahmos, they would also tear it with a slot antenna for a sweet soul, and podizh you ...)
And the Arabs won't buy - they haven't come to their senses yet from the `` Arab Spring '' to again run into problems from the states ...

[Zaurbek]

They simply were not sold, but saturated by the Chinese Air Force. Pakistani FT-17 is also being modernized and will appear in a new appearance with AFAR. Hindus are already worried.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: tomket

Quote: Zaurbek

- Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

Where is the MiG late? Until we or China put up for sale a full 5th generation lightweight fighter, the MiG-35 until then will be relevant. The Japanese are different there so they will buy the F-35, they like to buy MiG and did not plan. And among the direct competitors of the MiG, the French are not yet visible for the 5th generation.

Alexander, the French will not do the 5th generation, it was written somewhere. It is believed that Rafal modernized so come down. IMHO, right.
I agree that the MiG-35 will probably be relevant for small countries, but why does it need Russia?

[Grandfather Crimea]

Tongue grind not bag yearn))))

[esso]

it’s obvious that the person was bribed. Buy under-fighter, under-bomber F-35. Which the whole world has problems with. It is inconceivably expensive both in purchase and in operation. The Americans created a plane for sale, the Su-35 for war. Retired Commander of the Indonesian Air Defense Eris Hariyanto. He is an anti-aircraft gunner, not a pilot. F-16 is a light fighter, Cy-35 heavy. And they have different tasks. In addition, the US military itself recognized the program as a failure.

[Timx]

He is an anti-aircraft gunner, not a pilot

The article directly says that he flew on the F-5 and F-16 during the service ...

In addition, the US military itself recognized the program a failure

When was that?
F-16 - the most massive 4th generation fighter and will definitely remain that way (more than 4500 units sold);
The F-35 is also the most massive 5th generation fighter yet, and it is not yet clear that someone will be able to move it from the pedal (after all, more than 3000 aircraft have been contracted) ...

[esso]

Yes, even on a hang glider, the commander of the Indonesian air defense Eris Hariyanto. Air defense. The fact that the F-16 riveted 4500 and were able to sell. This indicates successful commerce. Americans are creating weapons for sale. Americans will have to rivet F-35, as well as sell. Europeans can create their own, but they will not give them. Buy all the F-35s, we put a bunch of dough in it. The issue of commerce and quantity is against military effectiveness. If you try to bring the actions of Israel on the F-35 in Syria, then they are still given such an opportunity. Would have wanted ours, long ago shot down.

[Albachino]

Well, definitely, when compared with Indian vimanas, drying is still a long way off.

[Yuri Simple]

Gold words! Moreover, they still reach out and reach out. So this pepper is deeply right. And then he repeatedly saw the F-35 in pictures

[Viktor Sergeev]

Corruption and stupidity are two troubles of the highest officials of Indonesia. Like small children, they said 5 is better than 4, and they even threw the dough, which means it is.
You will find a plane and even launch a rocket, but what is the probability of getting on a plane that has absolute maneuverability at the moment? Well, as I understand, this pilot, as I understand it, has not heard about electronic warfare and its effect on enemy radars.
F35, like F22, are sharpened for Avax. Does Indonesia have AWACS aircraft for stealth guidance?

[donavi49]

Well, the Americans have resolved this issue. What is the probability of dodging 4-5 missiles launched from an air arsenal, for which such an expense as 2 from a conventional aircraft?

[Zaurbek]

It is with this Su35S that we must compare. In addition to missiles, there are AFAR and "fast" brains ...

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Zaurbek

It is with this Su35S that we must compare. In addition to missiles, there are AFAR and "fast" brains ...

Still to find performance characteristics on it ...
https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/PublishingImages/2019/May%202019/F-15.F-35_Vertical.v30.pdf
there is something here, but nothing about motors, their resource, avionics.

[Zaurbek]

Their resource is always higher. Turbojet engine with a thrust of 14tn. Without UVT.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Zaurbek

Their resource is always higher. Turbojet engine with a thrust of 14tn. Without UVT.

This is afterburner. And on the afterburner mode? Resource?
AL-41F1S has 14.5 tons on afterburner and 8.8 tons on afterburner, plus the resource has grown significantly

[Zaurbek]

On F15S without Fast and Furious it was 8tn.

[Yuri Simple]

High enough. For the Su-35. For "Tiger-2" - practically none. Again, you can fire 4-5 missiles - there are no prohibitions here. And what's next? Oh yes! Su-35, on the other hand, it will stupidly watch as missiles are launched at it. In response - no, no! How is that possible, sir!

[tomket]

Quote: donavi49

What is the probability of dodging 4-5 missiles launched from an air arsenal, for which such an expense as 2 from a conventional airplane?

What is the likelihood of this air arsenal to catch the R-33E when it is at maximum load?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

What is the probability of dodging 4-5 missiles launched from an air arsenal, for which such an expense as 2 from a conventional aircraft?

In fact, the probability of evading a missile attack for modern Su and MiG fighters is very high, and more often this happens due to a sharp turn and escape at high speed from enemy missiles, and then the number of missiles fired can be any, but they will not reach the target. The speed of air-to-air missiles at a maximum of Mach 4, while the speed is not constant, it decreases over time, until the fuel is completely depleted, the speed of fighters reaches up to Mach 3 on afterburner, so that when a missile attack is detected in advance, this is not difficult and this has been used more than once in real battles -

On the account of the MiG-25 (pilot flight engineer Zuheir Dawood) the only official loss of American aviation in the Desert Storm air battles is F / A-18, shot down on the first night of the war on January 17 (its pilot Michael Speaker was reported missing for a long time lead). Also on the first day was aerial combat of a pair of MiG-25PD and four American F-15s. F-15 fired a large number of missiles without achieving a single hit, after which the planes parted.

On January 30, a pair of Iraqi "twenty-fifth" rockets attacked a pair of F-15s. One of the rockets exploded near the Eagle, after which it turned towards the Saudi border, a ground control point followed the F-15 path and noted that the plane crashed 40 kilometers from the border. Later, Iraqis found the F-15 wreckage in the same place the control point was talking about, but the Americans did not confirm their losses in this battle (it is known that for some unknown reason the Saudi F-15 crashed, but the date of the loss is February 13 and this loss occurred in southern Saudi Arabia, far from the border with Iraq). MiG-25 turned around and began to return to base. Two F-15s came to the rescue, together they fired ten air-to-air missiles at the retreating enemy, none of the missiles reached the target

During the war of Ethiopia and Eritrea, the Su-27 repeatedly left the missiles fired at them, after which they returned and shot down the Eritrean MiGs

[1959ain]

You still forgot about the downed F-16 of Pakistan, MiG-21 of India, though the Indian fighter was shot down.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

You still forgot about the downed F-16 of Pakistan, MiG-21 of India, though the Indian fighter was shot down.

I did not forget, it's just that not everything is so obvious and there are many reasons for manipulation.

Indian Su-30MKIs at least were able to spot Pakistani F-16 attack missiles - AIM-120 AMRAAM and change their course in advance to evade a missile attack.

The MiG-21 single-engine with a maximum speed of 1300 km / h (versus 2600 km / h Su-30MKI) simply did not have a chance to get away from the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile, either at the expense of speed or anti-missile maneuvers.

The Pakistani group consisted of 24 aircraft, 8 of which were F-16s, against 2 MiG-21s and 4 Su-30MKIs.

In fact, the Pakistanis ambushed the Indians, and the main calculation was on the range of the AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, most likely the Indian Air Force first fought / intercepted a small group of Pakistani aircraft, and then launched long-range AIM missiles over them -120 AMRAAM most likely with the F-16, and not as stated with the JF-17.

I suppose that the Pakistanis fired a lot of AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles on Indian planes, but only one missile reached its target - the MiG-21, which is not in speed or maneuverability and is not near the Su-30MKI.

There were also reports that the Su-30MKI managed to shoot down the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile, which in principle is quite realistic, since the missile is very large and well detected by the radar and captured by the GOS of air-to-air missiles.

As a result of this battle, India had complaints only about the insufficient range of the R-77 missiles, that is, most likely the Su-30MKI saw Pakistani missiles and aircraft perfectly well, evaded a missile attack in advance, but the Pakistani aircraft could not retrieve the response. For the sake of fairness, it is worth saying that the R-77 (especially in the export version) is inferior to the latest versions of the American AIM-120 AMRAAM rocket slightly in range.

It was necessary to buy India R-37 with a range of 300 km. Saved the result.

Russia is now working hard on long-range missiles KS-172 and R-37M with a range of about 400 km.

In general, the concept of super-maneuverability + speed is quite effective and is needed not for close combat, as is often pointed out, but just for protecting the aircraft from air-to-air missiles.

The F-35 has a lower speed even than the MiG-21, so there is little chance of it getting away from the enemy’s missile, an order of magnitude less than that of the Su-30/35 or MiG-29/35.

It’s not the technique that wins the battle, but the tactics and stamina of the fighters.

[1959ain]

India shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter
Pakistan tried to launch an attack against India, but lost its F-16 fighter.
In response to the attack of the Indian Air Force, Pakistan was able not only to bring down two fighters of this country, but also conducted a counterattack using its own combat aircraft, but the Indian military was ready for such events and was able to shoot down one of the fighters. According to some information, four F-16 fighters took part in the attack of the Pakistani Air Force; however, after the destruction of the first one, the combat aircraft returned to their airspace.
Read more at: http://avia.pro/news/indiya-sbila-pakistanskiy-istrebitel-f-16

[Magog]

Competently stated, in my opinion. Here is a remark: "In general, the concept of super-maneuverability + speed is quite effective and it is needed not for close combat, as it is often pointed out, but just to protect the aircraft from air-to-air missiles." Dodging or dodging at speed from long-range WB and medium-range missiles, then, as the battle continues, you get into the phase of close air combat (BVB), etc. To win in the last (and therefore the main!) Type of battle, super-maneuverability is a decisive advantage of the apparatus ... "Stealth", "low EPR" - in general, in BVB conditions at the level of paranoia!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Dodging or moving away at speed from long-range WB and medium-range missiles, then, with the continuation of the battle, you enter the phase of close air combat (BVB)

How does a maneuver to evade a long-range or medium-range air-to-air missile fall into close combat?

Not at all. The fighter detected a launch on its own - made a missile maneuver (changed course to the opposite of flying missiles and, due to speed, left it, and you don’t need to be a pilot of a first class) - turned around - got closer to the attacking plane and launched its missiles on it long-range or medium-range missiles. He does not need to go into close combat and take risks in vain.

Similarly, the fighting in the war of Ethiopia and Eritrea took place. Eritrea lured the MiG to the Ethiopian Su-27, and then attacked it from an ambush with another MiG, which was hiding from ground-based radars using a low altitude and terrain, but the Su-27 always went away from the missile (often practically on the verge), one of the MiGs returned and attacked. After 3 defeats of the Eritrean MiGs, they completely stopped flying in the war zone.

In one of the battles, the Su-27 returned to its airfield with 300 liters of fuel in tanks.

With all this, the MiG-29 is more maneuverable and faster than the single-engine F-16, and even more so the slow-moving F-35.

So our concept of 2-engine maneuverable (super-maneuverable) and high-speed fighters is fully justified.

Although there are also problems, there are many of them. We need long-range missiles in a series on Su and MiGs, we need radars with AFAR, we need to introduce technology to reduce visibility not only in the Su-57, but also in all manufactured aircraft in the Su and MiGi series, somewhere due to a slight change in the design of the airframe with the aim of elimination of right angles, somewhere replacing metal with composites.

You can’t stand still, you need to develop and move forward.

And we also need a single-engine aircraft, moreover, on the basis of the MiG-35 and on the basis of the Su-30/35. This aircraft is useful for striking with precision weapons, on moving targets - columns of equipment, individual units of armored vehicles, warehouses, headquarters, etc. At the same time, such a plane can protect itself, not as surely as a twin-engine one, but still better than an attack aircraft.

In fact, a single-engine aircraft is a replacement for a Su-25 or A-10 attack aircraft.

And such an aircraft will be exported to Ur, and the troops will saturate with a large number of front-line fighters, which will hide behind the Su-35/57 and MiG-31 located in the interior of the country / front.

[Magog]

If you continue the fight, then you get to the BVB. If you just dodge the battle, dodging enemy missiles, then "air supremacy" is just an empty dream. Is it the fighter's job to shoot down and destroy the enemy, or is it not so?

[Timx]

MiG-21 single-engine with a maximum speed of 1300 km / h (against 2600 km / h Su-30MKI)

In general, that of the MiG-21, that of the Su-30MKI and, by the way, the F-16, the maximum operating speed is approximately the same and is approximately 2150-2200 km / h when flying without suspensions, at least overall (like PTB, bombs, containers) EW or aimed, heavy long-range missiles ...) All the rest is the inventions of couch experts who are not interested in discussing ...

[Timx]

MiG-21, which is neither in speed nor in maneuverability and is not near the Su-30MKI

About the speed he answered a little higher - it is comparable for these machines. As for maneuverability, the MiG-21 does not need advertising for this indicator, at one time the developers from General Dynamics took it as a standard when developing their F-16 and since then little has changed, since the MiG, unlike its younger rivals in airspace, stopped `` gaining weight '' from the end of the 70s with the termination of serial production and retained its excellent flight data)) Yes, it does not have an engine thrust vector control system, but in air battles at medium and large distances and, most importantly, at supersonic speeds, it is still useless ... But otherwise a light MiG with 2-4 V-V missiles and a decent thrust-to-weight ratio (compare it, by the way, with the Su-30MKI loaded with missiles, PTBs and electronic warfare containers ) and today remains a very difficult target to hit, provided that there is an experienced, well-trained and trained pilot in the cockpit (and others are not put on these machines in such important missions).

[Briz]

F35, like F22, are sharpened for Avax. Does Indonesia have AWACS aircraft for stealth guidance?

Much worse is the fact that the Americans can turn off this advanced aircraft whenever they see fit. What for is such a "weapon"?

[Dimy4]

Everywhere you throw around some critics of our military equipment. Do not like it - build your own, the size of a pram and so that the functions are the same as that of a large one, and the ammunition is like a very large one.

[Alexey-74]

The retired commander simply decided to ruin everything in Russia and lobby the F-35, of course not for free .....

[Egor2517]

I don’t understand why ours still can’t set up the production of radars with AFAR, weaving in the tail. Nobody has long been interested in close combat with sharp turns, fired a rocket from 100 km and forgot.

[Gregavar]

Yes Yes. The problem is that this "concept" has failed.

[tomket]

Quote: Egor2517

Nobody has long been interested in close combat with sharp turns, fired a rocket from 100 km and forgot.

Therefore, the Raptors regularly train dog dumps with various Rafals and others in the exercises. Close combat is of no interest to anyone.

[bars1]

With the concept of, I fired a rocket 100 km away and forgot "not everything is so simple. Why, then, do the Americans paint their" aggressor "aircraft designed to imitate the tactics of Russian fighters in camouflage similar to that used in the Aerospace Forces? Even the stars paint red! At a distance of 100 km, such details cannot be discerned. It means that the Americans do not really believe in their concept of a "long arm"

[Zaurbek]

That the American pilots would not get lost when meeting with the enemy.

[reminin]

I would also add: on the su-35 there is no big screen for comfortable playing watt craft during the flight, an outdated subwoofer model, an uncomfortable joystick, no keyboard, no seat for heating, it is impossible to brew a cup of coffee and a lot of noise in the cockpit.

[sivuch]

Forgot about the stewardess - her voice is not melodious

[East Kazakhstan]

In some ways he is right. If the Americans put on the F-15 AFAR. why not upgrade the su-35S? The platform is great. I wonder how much AFAR costs? Average?

[Zaurbek]

It will become cheaper when the "Belka" is launched for the Su57 ... And they can and should be produced more than the Su57 themselves. And to upgrade them Su35S and Su30. As well as, then, "Product30"

[Maxwrx]

About 4 million, and she also has a resource of work and it is not very large (hundreds of hours)

[Jurkovs]

Fans of sawing kickbacks have not gone anywhere.

[Jarserge]

Key words "Harianto, who previously flew the F-16 Fighting Falcon and F-5 Tiger II," trained naturally in the US. then I think it's clear, here's a ready-made agent of influence.

[Yrec]

Based on the concept of creating domestic fighters / interceptors, they, ideally, should not include a radar at all. They should be guided by land / sea and airborne detection / guidance / targeting systems. The fighter / interceptor, taking off and turning on the radar towards the enemy, looks like an infantryman who got up from the trench at night, turned on the flashlight and went on the offensive. Turning on the radar makes sense if the enemy's air force and air defense are completely suppressed or close to it. It is possible to break through the layered air defense / missile defense system only in the complete radio silence mode at a low-level flight in the folds of the area under the radio horizon. The commander of the Indonesian air defense simply imbecile, or his Hindu counterpart bit.

[Gregavar]

And most likely "Uncle Sam's furry hand" manipulates him.

[Ros 56]

And how many dough did the striped entom generals pour out? And after that they tell me about democracy, well, well.

[tomket]

Quote: Ros 56

And how many dough did the striped entom generals pour out? And after that they tell me about democracy, well, well.

Yesterday I listened as Airbus attention !!! OBLIGATED TO PAY 10 mil. fine by the State Department for catching Europeans in giving bribes in Indonesia !!! Americans fine Europeans for giving bribes in Indonesia!

[Ros 56]

And their not fined, only Europeans? Very interesting.

[salamat52]

in the 90s in Malaysia, the Americans in the negotiations for the sale of their F / A18 paid a lot of money to their local lobbyists ...... we, too - but only after the conclusion of the contract
all these expenses are included in the contract price

[Alexey from Perm]

an unpleasant call for our "effective" managers and developers

[tomket]

Quote: Alexey from Perm

an unpleasant call for our "effective" managers and developers

So impressed with the words of the former commander? In them, the specifics are exactly the same, as much as in the words of some sort of Idonesian collective farmer who talks about aviation. Believe me, our developers are not so impressive.

[Sailor]

At the expense of AFAR, he is right, only on our planes he is not.

[Gregavar]

Yes, yes, a completely "inefficient machine". But for some reason the "chosen ones" are "afraid" of her. And for the so-called "invisible" radars with AFAR, it is more likely not enough than dignity and turns the "invisible" into a disposable aircraft with the F-35 maneuverability.

[Yuri Simple]

That's the whole point in money. Instead of money, they offer us palm oil. With all due respect - what is the oil - such are the fighters. It is good that we do not offer Mig-23. For such and such oil, I would refrain from delivering An-2.

[salamat52]

no ..... they don’t offer palm oil as a payment .... these are pure rumors ..... at one time it was proposed to counter-purchase palm oil for a certain percentage of the contract for aircraft

[vika83]

for starters, they themselves can create something before criticizing.

[tomket]

That feeling when you wait from the former commander for specifics with numbers, and in response, words are heard about the advanced P-51 ...

[Vasyan1971]

Again "former", again "retired" ...

Fourth, he believes that aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world.

Рњ-РґСЏ ...

[Dzafdet]

Paid uncle, so he sang ... Let them buy the F-35. A flag in their hands and a drum on their neck ....

[bars1]

Quote: tomket

That feeling when you wait from the former commander for specifics with numbers, and in response, words are heard about the advanced P-51 ...

Youth is one of the best periods of a person’s life ...

[bars1]

Another batch of breathtaking information: on the Tu-160M ​​that flew up yesterday, the PFAR was also installed - in the best traditions of the VKS!

[prior]

To return to Indonesia all of its palm oil received for our aircraft, and let it be settled with the Americans or the Swedes.

[salamat52]

Indonesia has never paid for palm oil for our planes. This is gossip.

[Radical]

Quote: Yuri Simple

Not as rich as it seems. But the practice of calculating palm oil should be stopped. Bad fighter? For God's sake. By the way, isn’t it time to abolish customs privileges for the import of palm oil into Russia? And yes, check all negotiators for their expenses against their income.

Funny. And naive.

[rica1952]

Well, actually there is no news here. We are behind in microelectronics, we are behind in air-to-air missiles and so on. .Our regular customers in the person of India have now bought it. Idnonesia. A country that does not invest in science but only destroys it has no prospects. And do not be offended, this reality is worse.

[pafegosoff]

"To a bad dancer ..."
No, most likely those who gave him the F-16, now again paid for advertising products of the US aviation industry.
Or China with its J-31?

[bars1]

In the Soviet Union in 1940-1941 with might and main riveted fighter I-153 ... So we are not the first time.

[Ham]

here you have some thoughts on the adoption of fines for notorious fakes ...
the author simply rewrote the letters from the subversive resource avia.pro ... the truth is not true this is unknown to anyone but is already sowing doubts and is subversive

[Yury Siritsky]

It can be seen that the Americans greased him well. Well and fine, let them eat palm oil themselves.

[Tuzik]

I read it. No one even brought close the cost of servicing SU35 and (or) F35, the difference in the effectiveness of PFAR and AFAR. Oil steers)

[Slavka]

It means passion as they want to get it.

[ydjin]

Quote: tomket

Quote: Ros 56

And how many dough did the striped entom generals pour out? And after that they tell me about democracy, well, well.

Yesterday I listened as Airbus attention !!! OBLIGATED TO PAY 10 mil. fine by the State Department for catching Europeans in giving bribes in Indonesia !!! Americans fine Europeans for giving bribes in Indonesia!

Well, America warriors of the world punishing evil all over the world!

[Pilat2009]

[quote = aleksey980] [quote = kjhg]
Plus, these can be quickly and more riveted in case of urgent need and the transfer of industry to martial law. [/ Quote]
I’m afraid that it won’t work out quickly, I’ll snuggle up to fight

[Dzungar]

Indonesia decided to buy another SU-35...? You just need to pick up the goods before that, maybe Russia will drop the price tag....

[Mihail42]

But Türkiye will buy 35 SU-24S from us!

[rotkiv04]

Apparently the lack of oxygen still affects mental abilities, but maybe at least Russian top managers will no longer sell high-tech equipment for palm oil

[spectr]

It's funny. The retired commander wrote an article for some publication to earn extra money, and from the title of the article it follows that a serious bloc has been formed in the Indonesian government that is pushing the F-35.

[Prisoner]

Senile insanity and lack of attention are evident.

[Pavel73]

Key words "flyed F-16 and F-5". He couldn’t speak out any other way.

[Gray-haired]

"According to him, the Su-35 is capable of performing only at low flight speeds." And the scoundrel never lies! He doesn’t need to fight in battle, but to escape from the battlefield. And our plane is not trained for this! So he’s not lying, ICE!

[Ax Matt]

Corruption is corruption in Indonesia too. Pray to your God, sheep, that we don’t show its effectiveness in real life!... “At low speeds...” - an argument from a series of jokes about Elusive Joe:
- And who is so fast that you can’t even see who flashed by?
- This is Elusive Joe.
- What, no one can catch him?
- No, no one really needs him.

[1536]

Who is Indonesia going to fight with anyway? Or from whom to defend? Based on this, apparently, they should acquire weapons. The Netherlands/Dutch are unlikely to go to war against them today; those days are gone. The Chinese don’t have F-35s, you can fight them with our Su’s if you have to. Indians are a peaceful people; they are unlikely to seize Indonesia and then feed its people; they have nowhere to put their own people. But against the United States itself, we need rather a deeply layered air defense, into which, again, our Sukhoi can be built quite reliably. But who will create such air defense? Indonesia is located on the islands of the Pacific and Indian Oceans. The climate is equatorial to subequatorial. The country ranks 4th in population. Of course, there is something and someone to protect. To do this, we must wisely conduct domestic and foreign policy and military development.
The statements of the local general are similar to the usual competition for the Indonesian arms market. Apparently, the Chinese are getting there with their planes. They call the tune.

[Lekz]

It looks like the time has come for Indonesia to purchase aircraft equipment. But the laws of competition are cruel. The retired commander worked out his 30 pieces of silver. Apparently the pension is not enough.

[impostor]

I would like to see the expression on Michael Pompa's face during the negotiations on the contract for the purchase of the Fu-35 with payment from the Indonesian technical palm

[SKIF555]

This is, of course, good! The chickens have gotten loose! Question for the “partners”?! Where are their Sukhoi and Kozhedub (INDONESIAN)? The kids are apparently taller than the Suomi Aces..... perhaps.......

[Cresta999]

I wonder what “passive radar” is?!

[garik77]

That's right. The Su-35 is not just a bad plane, but a very bad plane. Doesn't want to become Indonesian in exchange for palm oil!

[Vlad5307]

Quote: Lekz

It looks like the time has come for Indonesia to purchase aircraft equipment. But the laws of competition are cruel. The retired commander worked out his 30 pieces of silver. Apparently the pension is not enough.

I agree, the pension is apparently small and he was sent into retirement, possibly for collaborating with the American aviation lobby. So the cocked rooster crowed.

[Adimius38]

What is the main difference from passive phased array? Each AFAR cell contains its own transceiver. Their number may exceed one thousand. That is, in an AFAR, each array module contains a phase shifter, a transmitter and a receiver, dispensing with one large transmitter, as in radars with passive phased array. Previously, if, for example, the transmitter failed, the plane became “blind.” And here one or two cells, even a dozen, are affected, and the remaining thousands continue to work.” Thousands of AFAR modules increase the reliability and efficiency of the antenna, and it also becomes possible to work at several frequencies at once. Radar systems with AFAR are capable of simultaneous solving several tasks: searching and detecting targets, while simultaneously surveying the space, clearing out interference, jamming the enemy, and carrying out cartography. What is radar with AFAR? Without going into details, it is the most technologically advanced radar for fighter jets today. Radar with AFAR allows you to detect targets faster, at a much greater distance and at the same time has outstanding reliability. If Russia does not keep up with the times, it will be an outsider in the aviation market and not only aviation

[Hexenmeister]

But in “ordinary” radars, the transmitters fail after each flight? Or are there problems with "holes" in the waveguides that emit?
To operate AFAR at several frequencies, you need appropriate master oscillators, that is, this is not a feature of AFAR.
Simultaneously solving several problems such as searching and detecting targets, this is also done with a conventional phased array, the idiotic phrase “tune out from interference”, so not all interference can be “tuned out” from the AFAR.
Is it better to entrust electronic warfare to special systems to interfere, that is, to use part of the antenna to the detriment of the radar?
Detect targets “faster”, well, call the target detection time of the Irbis, and some other radar with AFAR! All this is nonsense, and a complete lack of understanding of how modern radars work, with or without AFAR.
Well, at the same time, tell us the detection range of the Irbis, and anyone else.

[bars1]

And Operator, claims that the Russian Federation has developed an ARGSN with AFAR... It is extremely unlikely that there will be a seeker with such an antenna on a disposable product (are we some kind of Japanese!), even if they are in no hurry to introduce AFAR on fighter radars. Although the modernized Ka-27Ms that are already entering service with the Navy have radars with AFAR... In general, the devil broke his leg on the issue of Russian AFARs.

[Slavs]

And what ? Buy an F-35 with tiltrotors to boot... Moreover,

servicing the aircraft is too expensive - unlike the F-35,

And somehow we’ll fly on our own, poor ones...

[Sergey Averchenkov]

But in principle, the Su-35 is a Su-27.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

But in principle, the Su-35 is a Su-27.

Not really. There are differences even in the airframe, not to mention the engines and avionics.

[silver_roman]

apparently the guy has a lot of Indians in his family

[salamat52]

I worked in Malaysia in the 90s when negotiations were taking place on the sale of MIGs.
There was a fierce struggle between ours and the Americans (they proposed the F/A18). Then almost every day in the local press there were interviews with retired military personnel who said that Russian planes were bad.
Ours worked with local lobbyists. In other words, there was the usual struggle for the market. This is fine.
(Eventually the Malaysians bought from us and the Americans).
A quick note on some of the comments. Russia has never received palm oil for aircraft supplied. This is a lie. Both Malaysia and Indonesia paid in cash. However, I would like to note that Russia, within the framework of these agreements, assumed obligations to BUY palm oil products for a certain percentage of the contract for the supply of aircraft. This percentage was a maximum of 10% of the contract. As for palm oil from Malaysia, the obligation was fulfilled, but not a single ton of oil arrived in Russia. MAPO/Rosvooruzhenie assigned their obligations to a local company, which supplied the oil to India and Bangladesh.

[Eugene-Eugene]

Very informative, thank you. If you want to tell us more about the specifics of military-technical cooperation, the publication will always meet you halfway.

[AlexTarov]

Quote: The same Lech

This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

Gentlemen will destroy this country...

[shinobi]

Key word, former. So he makes a living from lobbying.

[edits]

The 35 Su-90 purchased by Indonesia has outdated on-board electronics.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: edigs

The 35 Su-90 purchased by Indonesia has outdated on-board electronics.

Indonesia did not buy Su-35 from the 90s. This aircraft was only accepted into service in 2012. And in what ways has it become outdated in on-board electronics?

[Chingachguk]

And fifthly, when the SU 35 appears in the sky, everyone suddenly disappears somewhere.... No one says what this is connected with......

[Dimon Dimonov_2]

Let them take the F-35...they will whine along with the Japanese...It’s cheap and there are *no* costs

[Victor March 47]

Apparently, the Indonesian military killed everything. It is a disadvantage that the aircraft is a further development of the SU-27. Can he name at least one made without taking into account historical experience and mathematics accumulated by aerodynamicists and designers? A clean slate, starting with the reinvention of the wheel and wing?
The “cheapness” of servicing a “mass-produced” fighter, sold in quantities of three hundred around the world.... An American miracle, the cost of manufacturing and maintenance over its entire service life is the price of a piece of pure gold, with a mass equal to the mass of this machine.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: edigs

The 35 Su-90 purchased by Indonesia has outdated on-board electronics.

Chasing crocodiles in rivers is unnecessary.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Cresta999

I wonder what “passive radar” is?!

This is Admiral Nelson's telescope, put to his blind eye when he did not want to follow the orders of the king nearby in a naval battle. "I don't see, Your Majesty!" And that's it.

[Nikolai Redko]

We can probably agree about the radar. Everything else is kangaroo squeak.

[Aleksandro]

In fact, the Su-35 is no longer a fresh product; there are more modern examples of this class. Indonesia is a large country, both in territory and in population, but they have no potential external enemies and have not yet seen any, so Lenin’s quote “less is better” is relevant for them.

[Arhip smith]

A sketch from a pensioner for an increase in pension. I wonder, are there many more good-natured “fools” like Russia who would agree to sell a modern 4++ fighter for oil for the most part?! If the retired commentator really cared about his Air Force, he would thank our country and ask for a new contract

[lopvlad]

Fourthly, he believes that maintaining the aircraft is too expensive - unlike the F-35

if the maintenance of the SU-35 was more expensive than the maintenance of the F-35, then no one would ever buy it. Moreover, the United States always sells its equipment with a political charge.

[asr55]

Where is the moderator!? You can’t stoop so low with such nonsense articles, it’s simply not respect for readers and subscribers. There is nothing to comment, just nonsense. .

[Tuareg72]

another nonsense!