"Su-35 is not effective": in Indonesia, advocated the transition to an advanced fighter


The potential of the Russian Su-35 fighter is significantly limited in comparison with more advanced aircraft of its class. This opinion was voiced by the retired Indonesian air defense commander Eris Hariyanto on the pages of IndoAviation, listing four reasons.


Firstly, the Su-35 is a development of the previous type, namely the Su-27 fighter. He was surprised when Jakarta decided to purchase this car, since at that time there was already a 5th generation platform on the world market with stealth capabilities [apparently, it's about F-35]. According to him, the Su-35 is able to prove itself only at a low flight speed.

As he points out, in the early years of independence, Indonesia acquired a number of advanced aircraft: Tu-16 strategic bombers, OV-10 and P-51 reconnaissance aircraft, F86F, MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19 and MiG- fighter jets 21. In modern conditions, a similar approach is required - to bet on the 5th generation jet stealth fighter.

Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar, inferior in terms of the effectiveness of the radar with AFAR. At the same time, many platforms already have an advanced radar station, including Saab JAS 39E / F Gripen, Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon.

Thirdly, the Su-35 is large for a class of fighter jets, therefore, in his words, “it is easy for an enemy aircraft to detect it.” Hariyanto, who previously flew the F-16 Fighting Falcon and F-5 Tiger II, explains that in modern air battles, airplanes that are able to detect the enemy first have a chance to win.

Fourth, he believes that aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world. At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.
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  1. svp67 3 February 2020 06: 28 New
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    At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.
    Well, this is a common practice now, the main thing is to "throw more on the fan", and then things will get better ... I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?
    1. Same lech 3 February 2020 06: 33 New
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      This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.
      1. svp67 3 February 2020 06: 38 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

        I'm afraid that not only her, but all this civilization
        1. krot 3 February 2020 07: 00 New
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          In my opinion, Indonesia is still more effective than spears and bow with arrows))))
          Papuans, in a word.
          1. svp67 3 February 2020 07: 01 New
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            Quote: krot
            In my opinion, Indonesia is still more effective than spears and bow with arrows))))

            You shouldn’t be so. The country is dynamically developing, with the largest, most numerous Muslim population ...
            1. orionvitt 3 February 2020 08: 05 New
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              Quote: svp67
              with the largest, most numerous Muslim population ..

              I think this is a big plus? Which should (simply must) provide Indonesia with an unprecedented leap and prosperity. winked
              1. krot 3 February 2020 08: 46 New
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                You shouldn’t be so. The country is dynamically developing, with the largest, most numerous Muslim population ...

                The Sumerians out there are also “dynamically” developing. laughing
                Why, is such a developed economy out of its own, it only produces palm oil .. (bananas, coconuts) laughing Do not count the production of world corporations brought there because of the cheap labor, which, if desired, will be minimized. Yes, and they do not have enough cash, everywhere they shove their oil with palm barter))
                My suspicions that our people simply did not agree to the "oil deal of the century" are in the hearts of the general and are slandering "Sushki".
                1. orionvitt 3 February 2020 08: 58 New
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                  Quote: krot
                  only palm oil and produces ..

                  Actually, about palm oil, the conversation was with Malaysia. (They are the most important for this product in the world) And about the largest Muslim population, probably the same there. Someone here has mixed up something.
                  1. krot 3 February 2020 09: 28 New
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                    Actually, about palm oil, the conversation was with Malaysia

                    Did Indonesia want to buy from us for currency?
                    1. Alex777 4 February 2020 20: 17 New
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                      Both Malaysia and Indonesia strove to palm palm oil.
                      We do not need oil, they - Su-35. And that's right anyway.
                  2. Sergej1972 3 February 2020 11: 22 New
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                    Indonesia has a population of 266 million. The fourth country in the world in this indicator, after the PRC, India, and the USA. And the largest Muslim country in the world in terms of population. And the territory is almost 2 million square meters. km In Malaysia, the people a little more than 30 million, and an area of ​​approximately 330 thousand square meters. km So, Malaysia cannot compete with Indonesia either in terms of population or territory.
                2. The comment was deleted.
              2. svp67 3 February 2020 09: 46 New
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                Quote: orionvitt
                I think this is a big plus? Which should (simply must) provide Indonesia with an unprecedented leap and prosperity.

                It’s a big plus for us to have “such a partner”
            2. zloybond 3 February 2020 08: 36 New
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              Only this country is still paying with us exclusively palm oil, which the world refuses and our merchants for the people solely for recreational purposes, all payments are only in oil and accept yes profits are calculated premium
              1. avg avg 3 February 2020 14: 30 New
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                You should be careful about flogging nonsense so that it does not die prematurely. He will die and you will have no topics left for drafts. Russia is the ninth in terms of oil purchases. According to the consumption of palm oil per capita, Russia consumes 5,3-5,5 kg per person per year per capita. About the same amount is consumed in the UK. Whereas, for example, in Belgium this figure reaches 30 kg, Sweden - almost 12 kg, Denmark - 15,4 kg
                Something like that..
                1. vadim dok 3 February 2020 18: 12 New
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                  Only in contrast to the Russian Federation, the majority of palm oil goes to industry, and ONLY the highest class oil and a very small amount go to the food industry!
              2. zoland 3 February 2020 21: 43 New
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                And why not pay, if they take
              3. EvilLion 4 February 2020 09: 05 New
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                For thousands of years, everyone in the world has been eating this palm oil of yours, and no one has any questions about it. At the same time, in terms of space requirements, palm oil is much cheaper. Normal vegetable fat. You can just as easily run into pineapples, because this curiosity in central Russia is also not growing.
            3. Sergey Averchenkov 3 February 2020 22: 20 New
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              No. Not in vain.
          2. Unmer 3 February 2020 18: 54 New
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            I've been waiting for everything, on the contrary * Kalashnikov * somebody blather?
        2. Leeds 3 February 2020 08: 03 New
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          Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar, inferior in terms of the effectiveness of the radar with AFAR. At the same time, many platforms already have an advanced radar station, including Saab JAS 39E / F Gripen, Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon.

          Is that true? ...
          1. kjhg 3 February 2020 09: 18 New
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            Quote: Leeds
            Is that true ?.

            Is this news for you? On the Su-35 there is a radar with PFAR. The first domestic radar with AFAR was developed for the Mig-35, but for some reason the Moscow Region purchases Migi with a long-obsolete radar with a slot antenna. The AFAR Squirrel for the Su-57 is also being developed.
            1. aleksey980 3 February 2020 12: 46 New
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              Quote: kjhg
              Quote: Leeds
              Is that true ?.

              Is this news for you? On the Su-35 there is a radar with PFAR. The first domestic radar with AFAR was developed for the Mig-35, but for some reason the Moscow Region purchases Migi with a long-obsolete radar with a slot antenna. The AFAR Squirrel for the Su-57 is also being developed.

              I think that the MOs are not fools either (at least the majority) and are purchased in accordance with the developed conditions and tactics of use, in combination with other air and ground radars, within their MiGs, radius.
              Fighter to fighter combat in our time is a special case, which in importance and overall effect, is somewhere in the backyards. So, I do not exclude that the solution is well calculated. The budget is not so rubbery. )))
              Plus, these can be quickly and more riveted in case of urgent need and the transfer of industry to martial law. And here just there is a very alarming bell (more precisely, one of them, recently) that this MO bet on the "mass factor", and not on "the very best thing to measure pi..skami," for good reason ... What can not help but scare ... I hope that this is just paranoia played out.
            2. EvilLion 4 February 2020 09: 07 New
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              The VFAR in terms of functionality does not differ much from the AFAR. MiGi MO does not want to take it at all, it is possible, including because of the real state of affairs with the radars of the Zhuk family.
          2. sivuch 3 February 2020 12: 41 New
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            In principle, yes, ceteris paribus, AFAR has an advantage over VFAR. But, as always and everywhere - there are nuances. For example, the size (in this case, the size of the radar antenna) still matters.
          3. Passing 3 February 2020 19: 07 New
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            And what exactly upsets you?
            Su-35
            PFAR: sees EPR 1m2 up to 270 km, the number of targets 30
            Eurofighter Typhoon
            AFAR: sees an EPR of 1 m2 on 165-220 km, the number of targets> 20
            Dassault Rafale C / B / M
            AFAR: sees an EPR of 1 m2 on 110-130 km, the number of targets is 40
            JAS 39E / F NG Gripen
            AFAR Raven ES-05 sees an EPR of 1 m2 per 150 km, the number of targets> 14
            1. sivuch 3 February 2020 19: 42 New
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              Question addressed to me? So I, in fact, about this. With such small plates as Rafal and Gripen, there will not be a particularly long range even with AFAR
            2. FRoman1984 12 February 2020 10: 19 New
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              Quote: Passing by
              And what exactly upsets you?
              Su-35
              PFAR: sees EPR 1m2 up to 270 km, the number of targets 30
              Eurofighter Typhoon
              AFAR: sees an EPR of 1 m2 on 165-220 km, the number of targets> 20
              Dassault Rafale C / B / M
              AFAR: sees an EPR of 1 m2 on 110-130 km, the number of targets is 40
              JAS 39E / F NG Gripen
              AFAR Raven ES-05 sees an EPR of 1 m2 per 150 km, the number of targets> 14

              I totally agree.
              Everyone was hooked - AFAR and AFAR give, as if he would radically change something in the range of target detection.
              The best fighter is not the most expensive and stuffed according to the latest trends - this is the workhorse of the Air Force / VKS, which should not be expensive to build and maintain. Su-35 in this respect is the golden mean - good high-torque AL-41F1-S engines with excellent resource, good radar, OLS there is, which is not, for example, on the same F-22.
              And it costs the Su-35 for the relatives of the VKS two times cheaper than the unfinished Su-57. And all the more cheaper F-35 and F-22
        3. Sergey39 3 February 2020 08: 34 New
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          Quote: svp67
          I'm afraid that not only her, but all this civilization

          I'm afraid it's too late to fear. Civilization is doomed. But hope dies last. And the Papuans will be able to start a new civilization.
        4. CBR600 3 February 2020 15: 41 New
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          Quote: svp67
          Quote: The same Lech
          This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

          I'm afraid that not only her, but all this civilization

          Absolutely agree. And not so long left. Plus
      2. IL-18 3 February 2020 09: 55 New
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        Yes? They have nowhere to put spices, as soon as Rsoboronexport takes them to the maximum in payment, the Su-35s will exceed all their expectations.
      3. Alexey LK 5 February 2020 01: 47 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        This country gentlemen will destroy corruption.

        This country will be destroyed by the lack of buyers for their main export product - palm oil, for which they want to buy fighter jets through barter.
    2. Chaldon48 3 February 2020 06: 52 New
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      Why give concrete numbers as arguments, the most important is the Russian consumer, which means a priori bad, for which articles it does not matter. Big Host nods his head means everything is in order.
      1. svp67 3 February 2020 06: 57 New
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        Quote: Chaldon48
        the most important is the Russian consumer

        I don’t agree with this, the fighter could be both European and Chinese, the main thing here is to force them to buy AMERICAN.
        1. Real Vugluskr 3 February 2020 08: 33 New
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          The question is different, with whom the poor Indonesia was going to fight on the F-35x? With Papua? The Philippines?
          1. Yuri Simple 3 February 2020 10: 08 New
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            Not as rich as it seems. But the practice of calculating palm oil should be stopped. Bad fighter? For God's sake. By the way, isn’t it time to abolish customs privileges for the import of palm oil into Russia? And yes, check all negotiators for their expenses against their income.
            1. Steen 3 February 2020 18: 31 New
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              Who will ask you.
          2. Sergej1972 3 February 2020 16: 10 New
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            Still, the fourth country in terms of population in the world. PPP GDP is slightly less than Russian, but more than Brazilian. Large territory plus water area. There are ambitions. They were going to fight in the 60s. with Malaysia, but then changed their minds.
    3. Alekseev 3 February 2020 07: 05 New
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      That's right!
      apparently, it is not possible to change the drying to palm oil.
      1. bessmertniy 3 February 2020 08: 12 New
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        There was no this oil and did not die of hunger. Let's get along. Every Indonesian pensioner thinks of himself as an expert. Again, it is not a pensioner in Indonesia who decides on the supply of weapons. hi
        1. EvilLion 4 February 2020 09: 29 New
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          Nobody was going to import this oil, especially since Oboronexport definitely doesn’t need it.
      2. Mikhalych 70 4 February 2020 09: 29 New
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        And on the "Raptor" will change? Or are they issued on credit to the new democracy to everyone?
    4. Vol4ara 3 February 2020 10: 53 New
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      Quote: svp67
      At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.
      Well, this is a common practice now, the main thing is to "throw more on the fan", and then things will get better ... I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?

      And why is the article also not given any numbers? Maybe the author also wants to throw on the fan. For me, if you want to refute, then you must provide numbers, not letters
    5. smart ass 3 February 2020 11: 02 New
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      Well, about the fact that it costs more than f35, I doubt very much
    6. Ka-52 3 February 2020 11: 31 New
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      According to him, the Su-35 is able to prove itself only at a low flight speed.

      The Su-35 is large in size for a class of fighter jets, therefore, in his words, “it is easy for an enemy aircraft to detect it”

      aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world.

      it immediately becomes clear what the person who was flying on the planes writes maybe the Indonesian airlines.
      I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?

      the statement about cheaper service pulled out of the nose speaks of an obvious ordering. I think this "expert" did not even see the documents of NTERA
      1. iouris 3 February 2020 20: 28 New
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        Quote: Ka-52
        a statement pulled out from the nose for cheaper service speaks of a clear order

        You are not an expert, but a general, after all - an expert in your field (Indonesian). By default, our defense systems always lost to the American in terms of operational manufacturability. In the USA, starting from the 1950s, the flight performance of aircraft (in particular, speed) is not decisive, and very stringent requirements are imposed on operational manufacturability. And it happened to us like this: "The designer is Dry, the plane is raw, and the technician is wet." In addition, for thirty years, the manufacturer has guaranteed the operator a predetermined level of readiness of equipment throughout the entire life cycle of the “product” (complex system) within the framework of the “integrated logistics system”, which includes spare parts, services, training, and training. Therefore, the price of the "question" includes a lot that eludes the attention of the public.
    7. iouris 3 February 2020 12: 58 New
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      Efficiency is a (mainly qualitative) characteristic that characterizes the relationship between costs (for solving a problem) and a useful effect. Costs take into account the assessment of damage due to combat and non-combat losses and operating costs. All these quantitative indicators, as a rule, are not fully taken into account, and if military operations are not conducted, then to give quantitative and qualitative assessments of the effectiveness of the combat aviation complex, strictly speaking, is impossible. In general, expert assessments are of practical value in making decisions, but it must be borne in mind that these assessments are subjective. And although "developed subjectivity" seeks to objectively reflect a phenomenon or process, it, of course, is not identical to the objective.
      In the USSR Air Force (and, of course, in the United States), such research institutes gave the estimates (it seems, "thirty"), not marshals. In Indonesia, such organizations may also exist (but not fact).
      It can also be assumed that Indonesia simply does not need a plane like the Su-35.
    8. shark 3 February 2020 14: 44 New
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      Don't you think that the SU-35 is unnecessarily “heroizing”? However, like the F-35.
      1. iouris 3 February 2020 20: 17 New
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        Apparently, the third is not given.
        However, the word “heroize” does not apply either to hard (“hardware”) or to software (“software”), and an airplane is a complex system that includes one and the other.
    9. eklmn 3 February 2020 17: 26 New
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      “At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator. ”
      And this is the fault of the Ministry of Trade of the military-industrial complex of Russia that there are no such numbers, they are not secret.
      I dug something:
      June 2017
      https://inosmi.ru/military/20180614/242475904.html
      “Russia announced to China the cost of the Su-35 fighter. The price of one Su-35 is more expensive than the American F-35 by $ 10 million. ”
      “The reason the average price of a contract for a Su-35 fighter to be bought by China is more expensive than an American F-35 is largely due to the“ package, ”which includes a lot of services. ”
      But Americans, when concluding a contract, include services.
      Here, on the website, in the article “Poland signed a purchase contract
      F-35 ”there are numbers:
      “The cost of the contract was $ 4,6 billion, and in addition to supplying the aircraft themselves, each of which cost Poland $ 87 million, it includes training for Polish pilots, the supply of flight simulators, and logistics support.”
      Those. the retired general is right somewhere - if they are comparable in terms of money, then in “modern air battles, airplanes that are able to detect the enemy first” have a chance to win, and this is the F-35.
      1. EvilLion 4 February 2020 09: 34 New
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        The developer of the Su-35 claims that the Irbis even sees the F-22 over 90 km. What then to say about the F-35. If you do not believe the developer of the Su-35, then you should not believe the developers of the F-35.

        The first enemy to ever see ground-based radars and AWACS aircraft.
        1. eklmn 4 February 2020 16: 33 New
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          “The developer of the Su-35 claims that the Irbis even sees the F-22 over 90 km. ”
          EvilLion, “seeing” and “seeing so as to direct a rocket” are two different things.
          Over 90 km, the F-22 will be seen as a hindrance - neither identify nor point. At 60 km, the aircraft will be identifiable and captured by a rocket.
          On the other hand, the F-35 (APG-81 radar with a GaSa module) will see the enemy’s aircraft at a range of approx. 400 km and an air-to-air missile with a distance of 150-300 km (depending on version) will destroy the enemy.
    10. Zoro 3 February 2020 17: 55 New
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      Quote: svp67
      At the same time, no comparative figures are given by the former aviator.
      Well, this is a common practice now, the main thing is to "throw more on the fan", and then things will get better ... I wonder how much his "revelation" cost in monetary terms?

      Now they say one thing, tomorrow another .. Russian weapons do not need advertising, we proved this in the 45th And now we prove in real combat trials .. soldier
  2. Izotovp 3 February 2020 06: 30 New
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    It’s necessary to earn some money in retirement. Looking for someone to sell. She still doesn’t know who to lobby for, so she lists everyone in bulk.
    1. PSih2097 3 February 2020 07: 17 New
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      Quote: Izotovp
      It’s necessary to earn some money in retirement. Looking for someone to sell. She still doesn’t know who to lobby for, so she lists everyone in bulk.

      Well, the former (regardless of profession, the main position is higher), they are ...
      This opinion voiced retired commander indonesian air defense eris jarianto
    2. Reserve officer 3 February 2020 19: 45 New
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      Pavel, the same thought occurred to me. Four reasons are mentioned in the article. Fifth, “one must earn some money in retirement.”
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Vladimir_2U 3 February 2020 06: 48 New
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    Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar
    The words of the pilot! True, Donald McKryak was also a pilot, in a way. laughing
    1. Avior 3 February 2020 07: 23 New
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      All the same, Zigzag McQuack (Lunchpad McQuack) smile
      You probably confused him with Donald Duck or Donald Trump smile
      But those non-pilots will seem to be smile
      1. Vladimir_2U 3 February 2020 08: 06 New
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        Quote: Avior
        All the same, Zigzag McQuack (Lunchpad McQuack) smile
        You probably confused him with Donald Duck or Donald Trump

        This is such a collective image of the pilot, in a way. )))
  5. Alex 2020 3 February 2020 06: 51 New
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    Honestly, the strange logic and statements of this first ... retired commander. Although, what kind of money can you say? I’m wondering, will they buy airplanes for palm oil from Europeans and Merikos? laughing
  6. viktor_ui 3 February 2020 06: 51 New
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    Betel betrayed chewing at the leisure of this retired person ... but there is also a rational grain in his claims: where is the AFAR on the Su-35 (expensive type?) And he nods at the existing backlog in the avionics of drying (correct if it’s wrong because it’s not special and info I draw from where it comes from). It is already quite often becoming the norm, which many say about the technological backlog of exported goods. Really need the expert opinion of a pro in avionics and other personal belongings in aviation.
    1. Timx 3 February 2020 17: 36 New
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      many talk about technological lag exported

      And what is so surprising here, you have not heard in what state the electronic industry is with us?
      It’s not bad that we drive junk for export, but that our troops get even more junk, since there is no way to put components from France, Israel, Great Britain or South Africa ...
      1. viktor_ui 3 February 2020 18: 13 New
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        Timur, I know what and how in terms of electronics and software components in the civilian sector ... I am an IT specialist in civilian affairs. So I’m interested in the calculations of military specialists: does the avionics of the SU-35 meet the challenges of the time ... or is it completed there on the basis of "there is no money but you hold on." Indonesia, like a country closer to the third world ... but if they already started making FI in terms of stuffing dryers, then the matter is not GUT unequivocally. And candelabra always interfere with bad dancers-suppliers.
        1. Timx 3 February 2020 18: 25 New
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          I am an IT specialist in citizen

          So you don’t need to tell that `` competently drafted TK (technical assignment) is already half the battle, '' but at this stage we most often have problems - people ordering the development of technology very vaguely understand what they need and how always in such cases, the developer himself writes to himself TK (so as not to overwork, of course), and the customer from the Moscow Region can only put a signature where they say ... This is where you need to start from, looking for the answer to the question, `` why is it so it turns out '' wink
          1. viktor_ui 4 February 2020 06: 09 New
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            I absolutely agree in terms of competently drawn up TOR (task managers used to call such people) ... but there is one thing - there is little that depends on the pros, because defective managers and other fashionable optimizers can easily overwhelm any well-developed competent solution for the sake of their interests ... I myself am witnessing how they ruined high-tech production. Yes ... if a customer from MO stupidly puts his signature on the fact that he is palmed off by the supplier without the technical expertise of the order, then such a customer is either a ram or a share. Personally, I advocate the development of the technology area entrusted to me with a competent explanation to amateurs to save on future consequences. Therefore, I and the system work confidently and smile and wave drinks
      2. EvilLion 4 February 2020 09: 36 New
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        That is, processors with a frequency of 220 MHz on the F-22 do you think PPC what new?
        1. Elephant 4 February 2020 17: 37 New
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          Do you consider modern Russian processors (Baikal, etc.) manufactured using the 65-nm process technology to be competitive news?
          1. Nick 5 February 2020 17: 44 New
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            Quote: Elephant
            Do you consider modern Russian processors (Baikal, etc.) manufactured using the 65-nm process technology to be competitive news?

            The manufacturer announces the imminent entry to the market of the Russian Elbrus-16C processor, which should be produced using 16nm process technology and at the same time have a competitive price.
  7. abrakadabre 3 February 2020 06: 55 New
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    I'm wondering how this happens technically? Some pepper comes in / calls / writes in the media, it seems: "I am the former such-and-such, I have the opinion to say on the topic of universal importance ..."? And the media, having taken an interview, immediately rushes "at the embrasure" with him at the ready?
    Well yes, you were someone there. But now who are you and what are you responsible for? Moreover, the opinion of an air defense officer about fighters ... Maybe we will ask a military cook? Or the quartermaster.

    And then:
    Fourth, he believes that aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world.
    That straight F35 cheap at cheap to maintain, in comparison with the line of Su? And what can the air defense know, and not the air force?
    1. orionvitt 3 February 2020 08: 15 New
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      Quote: abrakadabre
      I'm wondering how this happens technically? Comes / calls / writes some pepper in the media, it seems:

      First, certain structures lobbying for their interests seek out the goal of an information attack (in this case, Russian planes), and a certain amount of money will be allocated for this. Then in the corrupt media (they are almost all corrupt), a series of previously written articles and reports on the subject is paid. The entire Internet was reposted and ready. And the "author" himself (in this case, the retired commander of the Indonesian air defense, Eris Hariyanto), maybe he didn’t even see these articles. I got a small share, for the "authoritative name", here's the increase in your pension.
      1. Yuri Simple 3 February 2020 10: 34 New
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        Then in the corrupt media (they are almost all corrupt)

        Media is a business. Same as its other species. You do not emphasize: "I bought a new car from a corrupt Renault." I wonder why? Or: "The Mercedes sales company makes smart cars. But she does it solely for profit!" Although it is for this that she does her car. And it’s not at all to make it convenient and comfortable for you to ride in it. Selling company, like it or not. And when a newspaper of the type “Indonesian Worker” or “Evening Jakarta” there is something to you, they are certainly corrupt. It’s strange.
        1. orionvitt 3 February 2020 10: 54 New
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          Quote: Yuri Simple
          Media is a business.

          And is this normal in your opinion? Everywhere lies and lies. And no one is responsible for anything. Medicine business, media business, education business, love business, all business. And then we complain that the world smacks of a certain substance. Actually, the media, according to the Western model, is not a business, it is an information weapon in the hands of certain structures. And business, this is secondary. But no one disdains to make money on this. They just don’t pay for the truth, though nobody usually needs the truth. That lie is paid very dearly. In the West, all business.
          1. abrakadabre 4 February 2020 07: 20 New
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            Actually, the media, according to the Western model, is not a business, it is an information weapon in the hands of certain structures.
            One does not interfere with the other. Just which side to look at. For the direct management / owner of the media is a business. For the customer of the information wave or the owner of the upper level - this is an instrument of information war.
            In this sense, a complete analogy with PMCs is both a business and a political tool. Moreover, politics does not exclude left-hand side jobs.
  8. Farewell 3 February 2020 06: 58 New
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    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Secondly, the Su-35 has a passive radar
    The words of the pilot! True, Donald McKryak was also a pilot, in a way. laughing

    This is an obvious jamb of a journalist or translator. Obviously, this refers to a radar with a passive phased antenna array, and it is compared with a radar with AFAR.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  9. Adimius38 3 February 2020 06: 59 New
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    Well, what is the truth here, the Su-35 really has a passive radar and not an AFAR. Therefore, while the "effective" top managers will sit on the ground, arranged by call and by call, we will lose the foreign customer and the trend now is unfavorable for us. Even our traditional buyers of weapons refuse our weapons. We can rub our electorate through the first channel about the best of the best, but in fact the world does not stand still and if we do not keep up with the times then our su-35 will really not be needed by anyone.
    1. master 52 3 February 2020 07: 03 New
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      Well, they come to us with a normal radar, but for export everyone makes truncated versions and what F-35 has there is a big question
      1. Avior 3 February 2020 07: 27 New
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        I will disappoint you, also with PFAR, as well as for export
        1. adept666 3 February 2020 09: 56 New
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          I will disappoint you, also with PFAR, as well as for export

          The same PFAR, but not so ...
          1. Timx 3 February 2020 17: 53 New
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            The same PFAR, but not so ...

            Oh well, and there are a lot of differences (fundamentally important differences)?
            1. adept666 5 February 2020 07: 50 New
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              Oh well, and there are a lot of differences (fundamentally important differences)?

              Other phase shifters, another type of TWT. This allows you to implement the operating modes of the station inaccessible radar Irbis-E and Bars.
    2. adept666 3 February 2020 09: 57 New
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      really possesses passive radar and not AFAR

      What is there no transmitter? wassat Where did you go? recourse
    3. Prjanik 3 February 2020 11: 18 New
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      We have AFARs on the MiG-35 and Su-57, but they don’t put on the Su-35, apparently they don’t see the point and special advantage over its PFAR. We are working on promising ROFARs.
      1. malyvalv 3 February 2020 16: 56 New
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        And they’re doing it right. The value of aircraft radars is greatly exaggerated. It’s like a lit flashlight in the hands of a soldier conducting a night battle in the steppe. Its value looks doubtful.
        For drummers of the MIG-35 and Su-57 type, a radar is needed for strikes on the ground. SU-35 is a pure fighter.
        1. kit88 3 February 2020 17: 42 New
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          It's like a lit flashlight

          sad
          You are not quite right. This is not a lighted flashlight. These are the "eyes." A fighter without a "radar" is a soldier leading a night battle in the steppe with blindfolds and closed ears.
          yes
          PS /
          No, maybe I didn’t fully understand you, and the “soldier” has earphones from the walkie-talkie in his ears, and he carries out orders from the CP - “azimuth 30, elevation 60, armor-piercing Fire!”, Then there is something to discuss.
          Indeed, then you can do without a radar and attack the targets at the coordinates received from an external source. But this is the next level.
      2. Timx 3 February 2020 18: 03 New
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        We have AFARs on the MiG-35 and Su-57

        There are prototypes, `` crafts '', assembled on the knee `` with the world on a thread '', - for their serial production, it is necessary to build a plant of transceiver modules (and there are `` sanctioned '' technologies ...), as well to re-equip the final assembly shops and the laboratory-testing complex, as for all other miracle weapons (for example, Armat, Zirkonov, Okhotnikov) - and not sit waiting for a miracle, so that everything itself somehow it turned out without unnecessary costs (monetary, human, intellectual) ...
        1. Gaersul 3 February 2020 21: 56 New
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          Quote: TimX
          for their serial production, it is necessary to build a plant for receiving and transmitting modules (and there are '' sanctioned '' technologies ...)

          Dear, can you find out what kind of "sanction" technology is there? That's it in the transmit-receive modules? Installation there is hellish - that is, that is.
  10. rocket757 3 February 2020 07: 01 New
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    Is this an analysis, a real assessment of military equipment? Not interested.
    Just one more drop (expert opinion) on the scales of competition .....
  11. master 52 3 February 2020 07: 01 New
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    I think 5 years of its operation in Syria by an idiot has made it clear that the plane is good
    1. Real Vugluskr 3 February 2020 08: 27 New
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      The idiot gave, but the idiot did not.

      The use of a fighter as a fighter on the enemy without air defense and the air force - everything is immediately clear, yes.
  12. Thrifty 3 February 2020 07: 09 New
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    Buy hang gliders, they are smaller! Did he even sit in the Su35 cabin for a couple of minutes, or in the hope of a rollback he sang his song about the “bad Su35” ??? Buy f35, you will go around the world with its supply and maintenance!
  13. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 07: 12 New
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    There is some truth in this:
    - Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
    - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late
    1. FRoman1984 3 February 2020 09: 30 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      There is some truth in this:
      - Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
      - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

      The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
      The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.
      1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 09: 35 New
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        It is already necessary to upgrade the Su35S. The Americans are already introducing its direct competitor, the F-15EX. Moreover, the competitor and Su35 and Su30 and Su34 .. all rolled into one. And there is AFAR, very powerful.
        And the MiG-35S is our offer in a smaller size. No offers, no sales in this size. All. There is a new generation F-16 on the market, there is Grippen, there is J-10 with AFAR, there will be FT-17 with AFAR. It is the J-10 with AFAR that will compete with the MiG35S
      2. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 55 New
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        Quote: FRoman1984
        The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.


        MiG-35 under a different name in Egypt is successfully going. Can you explain why the project is dead? On some points, it is more advanced than the Su-35. And if Zhuk-A is still finished, then it will be just the first domestic aircraft with AFAR, which is what various potential buyers in the person of retired commanders crave.
        1. FRoman1984 4 February 2020 01: 03 New
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          Quote: tomket
          Quote: FRoman1984
          The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.


          MiG-35 under a different name in Egypt is successfully going. Can you explain why the project is dead? On some points, it is more advanced than the Su-35. And if Zhuk-A is still finished, then it will be just the first domestic aircraft with AFAR, which is what various potential buyers in the person of retired commanders crave.

          The machine does not belong to the class of lungs, but it does not even reach the heavy ones. Both radars (Zhuk-A, Zhuk-M) are weak in relation to, for example, Irbis. The engines have not undergone major changes in comparison with the AL-31F1 \ AL-41F1S. What is its role in the presence of the Su-30SM, Su-35? "Light" front-line fighter?
          They can’t finish the radar, they have been talking about Zhuk-A for about 10 years (offhand), they are carrying it in a single copy. I read an interview with Tarasenko, says that Zhuk-A is optional. In the VKS planes will go without him.
      3. Vol4ara 3 February 2020 10: 59 New
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        Quote: FRoman1984
        Quote: Zaurbek
        There is some truth in this:
        - Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
        - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

        The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
        The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

        This is how to compare the power of the iron in which the coals are laid with a modern iron, the first is undoubtedly more powerful, it burns clothes easily. Read at least a little bit before writing, you look and Spanish shame from your comments will be less
        1. sivuch 3 February 2020 12: 51 New
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          Yes, they read it for a long time. The advantages of AFAR over PFAR (ceteris paribus) are far from being so critical and far from always can be realized. Although, as an advertising lure for potential buyers, it works well.
        2. FRoman1984 4 February 2020 00: 52 New
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          Quote: Vol4ara
          Quote: FRoman1984
          Quote: Zaurbek
          There is some truth in this:
          - Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
          - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

          The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
          The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

          This is how to compare the power of the iron in which the coals are laid with a modern iron, the first is undoubtedly more powerful, it burns clothes easily. Read at least a little bit before writing, you look and Spanish shame from your comments will be less

          Read. And here a lot has been written by colleagues and explained.
          The net benefits are significant and certainly not critical. Comparison with the iron is incorrect.
          You worry about yourself and be ashamed of your ignorance, you don’t need to, I’ll figure it out myself. :)
          1. Vol4ara 4 February 2020 01: 15 New
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            Quote: FRoman1984
            Quote: Vol4ara
            Quote: FRoman1984
            Quote: Zaurbek
            There is some truth in this:
            - Su35S needs to be upgraded for the second time ... you can’t go far at PFAR. Competitors already in full offer AFAR.
            - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

            The Su-35 irbis is more powerful than all these AFARs on Grippen, Typhoon, etc. TLH is a very cool airplane. VKS confirms this by purchasing it in series. But the Su-30 must be modernized: both avionics and engines.
            The Mig-35 is a dead project, they won’t buy this car, the test dates and the absence of a contract testify to this.

            This is how to compare the power of the iron in which the coals are laid with a modern iron, the first is undoubtedly more powerful, it burns clothes easily. Read at least a little bit before writing, you look and Spanish shame from your comments will be less

            Read. And here a lot has been written by colleagues and explained.
            The net benefits are significant and certainly not critical. Comparison with the iron is incorrect.
            You worry about yourself and be ashamed of your ignorance, you don’t need to, I’ll figure it out myself. :)

            They read poorly. Here most couch experts write. The benefits are significant. With the iron, the comparison is correct. I don’t worry about you.
            1. FRoman1984 4 February 2020 04: 22 New
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              Then why are you here? Be smart about sitting? Call all experts sofas, like, and pretend to be a flash of knowledge in this topic? Pass by the next time, if you have nothing to say in essence. Do not bother to argue with couch experts.
    2. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 58 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

      Where is the MiG late? Until we or China put up for sale a full 5th generation lightweight fighter, the MiG-35 until then will be relevant. The Japanese are different there so they will buy the F-35, they like to buy MiG and did not plan. And among the direct competitors of the MiG, the French are not yet visible for the 5th generation.
      1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 12: 44 New
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        Compare with J-10 with AFAR. It’s quite a competitor.
        1. tomket 3 February 2020 12: 58 New
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          Quote: Zaurbek
          Compare with J-10 with AFAR. It’s quite a competitor.

          Buying an exterminator is generally not just an airplane purchase, but a political statement. Who will the Chinese sell their exterminator to? To vietnam? Yeah. Or the same Poles? Already standing in line. In fact, the number of countries ready to immediately purchase Chinese products is very limited
          1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 15: 52 New
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            The product is either there or not. A heavy fighter is an expensive pleasure. The most massive F16 format is the only competitive offer in this J10 weight. Asians will not buy ... but Arabs will buy. Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Latin America ...
            1. Timx 3 February 2020 19: 05 New
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              Yes, no one will buy it from among the serious players, since there is the technology of the Israeli `` Lavi '', consider the American military-industrial complex, and the engines are our `` salute '' from the Su-27 wink
              Even their closest ally and partner in the manufacture of aircraft, Pakistan, still does not even stutter about the desire to purchase them (and they really need it against the Indian Su-30MKI with brahmos, they would also tear it with a slot antenna for a sweet soul, and podizh you ...)
              And the Arabs will not buy - they have not yet come to their senses from the `` Arab Spring '' in order to run into problems from the states again ... lol
              1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 19: 45 New
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                They simply were not sold, but saturated by the Chinese Air Force. Pakistani FT-17 is also being modernized and will appear in a new appearance with AFAR. Hindus are already worried.
      2. FRoman1984 4 February 2020 01: 07 New
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        Quote: tomket
        Quote: Zaurbek
        - Mig35S is late and runs the risk of being completely late

        Where is the MiG late? Until we or China put up for sale a full 5th generation lightweight fighter, the MiG-35 until then will be relevant. The Japanese are different there so they will buy the F-35, they like to buy MiG and did not plan. And among the direct competitors of the MiG, the French are not yet visible for the 5th generation.

        Alexander, the French will not do the 5th generation, it was written somewhere. It is believed that Rafal modernized so come down. IMHO, right.
        I agree that the MiG-35 will probably be relevant for small countries, but why does it need Russia?
  14. Grandfather Crimea 3 February 2020 07: 17 New
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    Tongue grind not bag yearn))))
  15. Esso 3 February 2020 07: 18 New
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    it’s obvious that the person was bribed. Buy under-fighter, under-bomber F-35. Which the whole world has problems with. It is inconceivably expensive both in purchase and in operation. The Americans created a plane for sale, the Su-35 for war. Retired Commander of the Indonesian Air Defense Eris Hariyanto. He is an anti-aircraft gunner, not a pilot. F-16 is a light fighter, Cy-35 heavy. And they have different tasks. In addition, the US military itself recognized the program as a failure.
    1. Timx 3 February 2020 19: 17 New
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      He is an anti-aircraft gunner, not a pilot

      The article directly says that he flew on the F-5 and F-16 during the service ... sad

      In addition, the US military itself recognized the program a failure

      When was that? belay
      F-16 - the most massive 4th generation fighter and will definitely remain that way (more than 4500 units sold);
      The F-35 is also the most massive 5th generation fighter yet, and it is not yet clear that someone will be able to move it from the pedal (after all, more than 3000 aircraft have been contracted) ...
      1. Esso 21 February 2020 09: 07 New
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        Yes, even on a hang glider, the commander of the Indonesian air defense Eris Hariyanto. Air defense. The fact that the F-16 riveted 4500 and were able to sell. This indicates successful commerce. Americans are creating weapons for sale. Americans will have to rivet F-35, as well as sell. Europeans can create their own, but they will not give them. Buy all the F-35s, we put a bunch of dough in it. The issue of commerce and quantity is against military effectiveness. If you try to bring the actions of Israel on the F-35 in Syria, then they are still given such an opportunity. Would have wanted ours, long ago shot down.
  16. Albachino 3 February 2020 07: 22 New
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    Well, definitely, when compared with Indian vimanas, drying is still a long way off.
    1. Yuri Simple 3 February 2020 10: 39 New
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      Gold words! Moreover, they still reach out and reach out. So this pepper is deeply right. And then he repeatedly saw the F-35 in pictures
  17. Viktor Sergeev 3 February 2020 08: 03 New
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    Corruption and stupidity are two troubles of the highest officials of Indonesia. Like small children, they said 5 is better than 4, and they even threw the dough, which means it is.
    You will find a plane and even launch a rocket, but what is the probability of getting on a plane that has absolute maneuverability at the moment? Well, as I understand, this pilot, as I understand it, has not heard about electronic warfare and its effect on enemy radars.
    F35 as well as F22 are ground under Avax. Does Indonesia have AWACS aircraft?
    1. donavi49 3 February 2020 09: 09 New
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      Well, the Americans have resolved this issue. What is the probability of dodging 4-5 missiles launched from an air arsenal, for which such an expense as 2 from a conventional aircraft?
      1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 10: 19 New
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        And with this aircraft the Su35S needs to be compared. In addition to missiles, there are AFAR and "fast" brains ...
        1. FRoman1984 4 February 2020 01: 17 New
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          Quote: Zaurbek
          And with this aircraft the Su35S needs to be compared. In addition to missiles, there are AFAR and "fast" brains ...

          Still to find performance characteristics on it ...
          https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/PublishingImages/2019/May%202019/F-15.F-35_Vertical.v30.pdf
          there is something here, but nothing about motors, their resource, avionics.
          1. Zaurbek 4 February 2020 07: 03 New
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            Their resource is always higher. Turbojet engine with a thrust of 14tn. Without UVT.
            1. FRoman1984 4 February 2020 18: 42 New
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              Quote: Zaurbek
              Their resource is always higher. Turbojet engine with a thrust of 14tn. Without UVT.

              This is afterburner. And on the afterburner mode? Resource?
              AL-41F1S has 14.5 tons on afterburner and 8.8 tons on afterburner, plus the resource has grown significantly
              1. Zaurbek 4 February 2020 19: 29 New
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                On F15S without Fast and Furious it was 8tn.
      2. Yuri Simple 3 February 2020 10: 45 New
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        High enough. For the Su-35. For "Tiger-2" - almost none. Again, you can launch 4-5 missiles - there are no prohibitions here. And what's next? Oh yes! Su-35, he will stupidly watch how rockets launch on it. In response - no, no! How can this be, sir!
      3. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 49 New
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        Quote: donavi49
        What is the probability of dodging 4-5 missiles launched from an air arsenal, for which such an expense as 2 from a conventional airplane?

        What is the likelihood of this air arsenal to catch the R-33E when it is at maximum load?
      4. Ratmir_Ryazan 3 February 2020 11: 29 New
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        What is the probability of dodging 4-5 missiles launched from an air arsenal, for which such an expense as 2 from a conventional aircraft?


        In fact, the probability of avoiding a missile attack for modern Su and MiG fighters is very high, and more often this happens due to a sharp turn and high-speed escape from enemy missiles, and then the number of missiles launched can be any, but they will not reach the goal. The speed of air-to-air missiles at a maximum of 4 mach, while the speed is not constant, it decreases with time until the fuel is completely exhausted, the speed of the fighters reaches 3 max misses on the afterburner, so there is nothing complicated with the early detection of a missile attack and it has been used more than once in real battles -

        On the account of the MiG-25 (pilot flight engineer Zuheir Dawood) the only official loss of American aviation in the Desert Storm air battles is F / A-18, shot down on the first night of the war on January 17 (its pilot Michael Speaker was reported missing for a long time lead). Also on the first day was aerial combat of a pair of MiG-25PD and four American F-15s. F-15 fired a large number of missiles without achieving a single hit, after which the planes parted.


        On January 30, a pair of Iraqi "twenty-fifth" rockets attacked a pair of F-15s. One of the rockets exploded near the Eagle, after which it turned towards the Saudi border, a ground control point followed the F-15 path and noted that the plane crashed 40 kilometers from the border. Later, Iraqis found the F-15 wreckage in the same place the control point was talking about, but the Americans did not confirm their losses in this battle (it is known that for some unknown reason the Saudi F-15 crashed, but the date of the loss is February 13 and this loss occurred in southern Saudi Arabia, far from the border with Iraq). MiG-25 turned around and began to return to base. Two F-15s came to the rescue, together they fired ten air-to-air missiles at the retreating enemy, none of the missiles reached the target


        During the war of Ethiopia and Eritrea, the Su-27 repeatedly left the missiles fired at them, after which they returned and shot down the Eritrean MiGs
        1. 1959ain 3 February 2020 12: 16 New
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          You still forgot about the downed F-16 of Pakistan, MiG-21 of India, though the Indian fighter was shot down.
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan 3 February 2020 13: 38 New
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            You still forgot about the downed F-16 of Pakistan, MiG-21 of India, though the Indian fighter was shot down.


            I did not forget, it's just that not everything is so obvious and there are many reasons for manipulation.

            Indian Su-30MKIs at least were able to spot Pakistani F-16 attack missiles - AIM-120 AMRAAM and change their course in advance to evade a missile attack.

            The MiG-21 single-engine with a maximum speed of 1300 km / h (versus 2600 km / h Su-30MKI) simply did not have a chance to get away from the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile, either at the expense of speed or anti-missile maneuvers.

            The Pakistani group consisted of 24 aircraft, 8 of which were F-16s, against 2 MiG-21s and 4 Su-30MKIs.

            In fact, the Pakistanis ambushed the Indians, and the main calculation was on the range of the AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, most likely the Indian Air Force first fought / intercepted a small group of Pakistani aircraft, and then launched long-range AIM missiles over them -120 AMRAAM most likely with the F-16, and not as stated with the JF-17.

            I suppose that the Pakistanis fired a lot of AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles on Indian planes, but only one missile reached its target - the MiG-21, which is not in speed or maneuverability and is not near the Su-30MKI.

            There were also reports that the Su-30MKI managed to shoot down the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile, which in principle is quite realistic, since the missile is very large and well detected by the radar and captured by the GOS of air-to-air missiles.

            As a result of this battle, India had complaints only about the insufficient range of the R-77 missiles, that is, most likely the Su-30MKI saw Pakistani missiles and aircraft perfectly well, evaded a missile attack in advance, but the Pakistani aircraft could not retrieve the response. For the sake of fairness, it is worth saying that the R-77 (especially in the export version) is inferior to the latest versions of the American AIM-120 AMRAAM rocket slightly in range.

            It was necessary to buy India R-37 with a range of 300 km. Saved the result.

            Russia is now working hard on long-range missiles KS-172 and R-37M with a range of about 400 km.

            In general, the concept of super-maneuverability + speed is quite effective and is needed not for close combat, as is often pointed out, but just for protecting the aircraft from air-to-air missiles.

            The F-35 has a lower speed even than the MiG-21, so there is little chance of it getting away from the enemy’s missile, an order of magnitude less than that of the Su-30/35 or MiG-29/35.

            It’s not the technique that wins the battle, but the tactics and stamina of the fighters.
            1. 1959ain 3 February 2020 13: 46 New
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              India shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter
              Pakistan tried to launch an attack against India, but lost its F-16 fighter.
              In response to the attack of the Indian Air Force, Pakistan was able not only to bring down two fighters of this country, but also conducted a counterattack using its own combat aircraft, but the Indian military was ready for such events and was able to shoot down one of the fighters. According to some information, four F-16 fighters took part in the attack of the Pakistani Air Force; however, after the destruction of the first one, the combat aircraft returned to their airspace.
              Read more at: http://avia.pro/news/indiya-sbila-pakistanskiy-istrebitel-f-16
            2. Magog 3 February 2020 16: 19 New
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              Properly outlined, in my opinion. Here's a comment: "In general, the concept of super-maneuverability + speed is quite effective and is needed not for close combat, as is often pointed out, but just for protecting the aircraft from air-to-air missiles." Dodging or moving away at speed from long-range WB and medium-range missiles, then, with the continuation of the battle, you enter the phase of close air combat (BVB), including For victory in the conditions of the last (and therefore the main!) Type of battle, super maneuverability is the decisive advantage of the apparatus ... "Invisibility", "small EPR" - in general in BVB conditions at the level of paranoia!
              1. Ratmir_Ryazan 3 February 2020 17: 05 New
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                Dodging or moving away at speed from long-range WB and medium-range missiles, then, with the continuation of the battle, you enter the phase of close air combat (BVB)


                How does a maneuver to evade a long-range or medium-range air-to-air missile fall into close combat?

                Not at all. The fighter detected a launch on its own - made a missile maneuver (changed course to the opposite of flying missiles and, due to speed, left it, and you don’t need to be a pilot of a first class) - turned around - got closer to the attacking plane and launched its missiles on it long-range or medium-range missiles. He does not need to go into close combat and take risks in vain.

                Similarly, the fighting in the war of Ethiopia and Eritrea took place. Eritrea lured the MiG to the Ethiopian Su-27, and then attacked it from an ambush with another MiG, which was hiding from ground-based radars using a low altitude and terrain, but the Su-27 always went away from the missile (often practically on the verge), one of the MiGs returned and attacked. After 3 defeats of the Eritrean MiGs, they completely stopped flying in the war zone.

                In one of the battles, the Su-27 returned to its airfield with 300 liters of fuel in tanks.

                With all this, the MiG-29 is more maneuverable and faster than the single-engine F-16, and even more so the slow-moving F-35.

                So our concept of 2-engine maneuverable (super-maneuverable) and high-speed fighters is fully justified.

                Although there are also problems, there are many of them. We need long-range missiles in a series on Su and MiGs, we need radars with AFAR, we need to introduce technology to reduce visibility not only in the Su-57, but also in all manufactured aircraft in the Su and MiGi series, somewhere due to a slight change in the design of the airframe with the aim of elimination of right angles, somewhere replacing metal with composites.

                You can’t stand still, you need to develop and move forward.

                And we also need a single-engine aircraft, moreover, on the basis of the MiG-35 and on the basis of the Su-30/35. This aircraft is useful for striking with precision weapons, on moving targets - columns of equipment, individual units of armored vehicles, warehouses, headquarters, etc. At the same time, such a plane can protect itself, not as surely as a twin-engine one, but still better than an attack aircraft.

                In fact, a single-engine aircraft is a replacement for a Su-25 or A-10 attack aircraft.

                And such an aircraft will be exported to Ur, and the troops will saturate with a large number of front-line fighters, which will hide behind the Su-35/57 and MiG-31 located in the interior of the country / front.
                1. Magog 3 February 2020 17: 12 New
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                  If you continue the battle, then you get into the BVB. If you simply evade the battle, dodging enemy missiles, then "air supremacy" is just an empty dream. Shoot down and destroy the enemy - the task of the fighter, or is it not?
            3. Timx 4 February 2020 01: 36 New
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              MiG-21 single-engine with a maximum speed of 1300 km / h (against 2600 km / h Su-30MKI)

              In general, that of the MiG-21, that of the Su-30MKI and, by the way, the F-16, the maximum operating speed is approximately the same and is approximately 2150-2200 km / h when flying without suspensions, at least overall (like PTB, bombs, containers) EW or aimed, heavy long-range missiles ...) smile All the rest is the inventions of couch experts who are not interested in discussing ...
            4. Timx 4 February 2020 02: 16 New
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              MiG-21, which is neither in speed nor in maneuverability and is not near the Su-30MKI

              About the speed he answered a little higher - it is comparable for these machines. As for maneuverability, the MiG-21 does not need advertising on this indicator, at one time the developers from General Dynamics took it as a benchmark in the development of its F-16 and has since changed little since the MiG, unlike its younger rivals in the airspace, stopped gaining weight from the late 70s with the cessation of serial production and retained its excellent flight data)) Yes, it does not have an engine thrust vector control system, but in medium and large air battles it’s still useless for distances and, most importantly, at supersonic speeds ... And the rest is a light MiG with 2-4 V-V missiles and decent thrust-weight ratio (compare it, by the way, with the Su-30MKI loaded with missiles, PTBs and EW containers) ) and today it remains a very difficult target to defeat, provided there is an experienced, well-trained and trained pilot in the cockpit (and others are not put on these machines in such critical missions).
    2. Briz 3 February 2020 20: 18 New
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      F35 as well as F22 are ground under Avax. Does Indonesia have AWACS aircraft?

      Much worse is the fact that the Americans can turn off this advanced airplane when they see fit. What the heck is such a "weapon"?
  18. Dimy4 3 February 2020 08: 14 New
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    Everywhere you throw around some critics of our military equipment. Do not like it - build your own, the size of a pram and so that the functions are the same as that of a large one, and the ammunition is like a very large one.
  19. Alexey-74 3 February 2020 08: 20 New
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    The retired commander simply decided to ruin everything in Russia and lobby the F-35, of course not for free ..... laughing
  20. Egor2517 3 February 2020 08: 24 New
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    I don’t understand why ours still can’t set up the production of radars with AFAR, weaving in the tail. Nobody has long been interested in close combat with sharp turns, fired a rocket from 100 km and forgot.
    1. Gregavar 3 February 2020 09: 52 New
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      Yes Yes. The problem is that this "concept" failed.
    2. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 47 New
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      Quote: Egor2517
      Nobody has long been interested in close combat with sharp turns, fired a rocket from 100 km and forgot.

      Therefore, the Raptors regularly train dog dumps with various Rafals and others in the exercises. Close combat is of no interest to anyone.
    3. bars1 3 February 2020 11: 06 New
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      With the concept, he fired a rocket over 100 km and forgot "it’s not so simple. Why, then, do the Americans paint their planes - the" aggressors ", designed to imitate the tactics of Russian fighters in camouflage similar to that used in the VKS? Even the red stars are painted! At a distance of 100 km you can’t see such details. So the Americans don’t really believe in their concept of “long arm”
      1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 18: 07 New
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        That the American pilots would not get lost when meeting with the enemy.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. reminin 3 February 2020 08: 31 New
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    I would also add: on the su-35 there is no big screen for comfortable playing watt craft during the flight, an outdated subwoofer model, an uncomfortable joystick, no keyboard, no seat for heating, it is impossible to brew a cup of coffee and a lot of noise in the cockpit.
    1. sivuch 3 February 2020 12: 54 New
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      Forgot about the stewardess - her voice is not melodious
  23. East Kazakhstan 3 February 2020 09: 10 New
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    In some ways he is right. If the Americans put on the F-15 AFAR. why not upgrade the su-35S? The platform is great. I wonder how much AFAR costs? Average?
    1. Zaurbek 3 February 2020 18: 10 New
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      It will become cheaper when the Squirrel is launched for the Su57 ... But they can and should be produced more than the Su57 itself. And upgrade them Su35S and Su30. Like, then, "Product30"
    2. Maxwrx 4 February 2020 08: 47 New
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      About 4 million, and she also has a resource of work and it is not very large (hundreds of hours)
  24. Jurkovs 3 February 2020 09: 11 New
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    Fans of sawing kickbacks have not gone anywhere.
  25. Jarserge 3 February 2020 09: 21 New
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    Keywords "Hariyanto, previously flying the F-16 Fighting Falcon and F-5 Tiger II," naturally trained in the United States. then I think it’s clear, here’s a ready-made agent of influence.
  26. Yrec 3 February 2020 09: 22 New
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    Based on the concept of creating domestic fighters / interceptors, they, ideally, should not include a radar at all. They should be guided by land / sea and airborne detection / guidance / targeting systems. The fighter / interceptor, taking off and turning on the radar towards the enemy, looks like an infantryman who got up from the trench at night, turned on the flashlight and went on the offensive. Turning on the radar makes sense if the enemy's air force and air defense are completely suppressed or close to it. It is possible to break through the layered air defense / missile defense system only in the complete radio silence mode at a low-level flight in the folds of the area under the radio horizon. The commander of the Indonesian air defense simply imbecile, or his Hindu counterpart bit.
    1. Gregavar 3 February 2020 09: 50 New
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      And most likely, Uncle Sam’s shaggy hand is manipulating him.
  27. Ros 56 3 February 2020 09: 32 New
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    And how many dough did the striped entom generals pour out? And after that they tell me about democracy, well, well.
    1. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 45 New
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      Quote: Ros 56
      And how many dough did the striped entom generals pour out? And after that they tell me about democracy, well, well.

      Yesterday I listened as Airbus attention !!! OBLIGATED TO PAY 10 mil. fine by the State Department for catching Europeans in giving bribes in Indonesia !!! Americans fine Europeans for giving bribes in Indonesia!
      1. Ros 56 3 February 2020 10: 47 New
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        And their not fined, only Europeans? Very interesting.
      2. salamat52 4 February 2020 13: 33 New
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        in the 90s in Malaysia, the Americans in the negotiations for the sale of their F / A18 paid a lot of money to their local lobbyists ...... we, too - but only after the conclusion of the contract
        all these expenses are included in the contract price
  28. Alexey from Perm 3 February 2020 09: 42 New
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    unpleasant call for our "effective" managers and developers
    1. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 42 New
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      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      unpleasant call for our "effective" managers and developers

      So impressed with the words of the former commander? In them, the specifics are exactly the same, as much as in the words of some sort of Idonesian collective farmer who talks about aviation. Believe me, our developers are not so impressive.
  29. Sailor 3 February 2020 09: 46 New
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    At the expense of AFAR, he is right, only on our planes he is not.
  30. Gregavar 3 February 2020 09: 48 New
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    Yes, it’s a completely "inefficient machine." But for some reason, the "chosen ones" are "afraid" of her. And for the so-called “invisibles”, radars with AFAR are not more prosperous than dignity and turn the “invisibility” into a disposable aircraft with f-35 maneuverability.
  31. rudolff 3 February 2020 09: 48 New
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    But actually what all of a sudden attacked the Indonesians? Well, they don’t want the 4th generation, they want the 5th. It is quite sensible. There would be money. After all, we also sculpt our T-50 and would gladly make it the main VKS machine, but we cannot yet.
    1. Yuri Simple 3 February 2020 11: 04 New
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      That's the whole point in money. Instead of money, they offer us palm oil. With all due respect - what is the oil - such are the fighters. It is good that we do not offer Mig-23. For such and such oil, I would refrain from delivering An-2.
      1. rudolff 3 February 2020 11: 11 New
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        Regarding palm oil, the question is not only for them, but also for us. They make very good UDC Makassar. Build quickly and cheaply. We do not have such ships. Such a barter would be very interesting. But alas, palm oil is more important to us. People need to haul.
      2. salamat52 4 February 2020 13: 30 New
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        no ..... they don’t offer palm oil as a payment .... these are pure rumors ..... at one time it was proposed to counter-purchase palm oil for a certain percentage of the contract for aircraft
  32. vika83 3 February 2020 10: 26 New
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    for starters, they themselves can create something before criticizing.
  33. tomket 3 February 2020 10: 39 New
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    That feeling when you wait from the former commander for specifics with numbers, and in response, words are heard about the advanced P-51 ...
  34. Vasyan1971 3 February 2020 11: 04 New
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    Again "former", again "retired" ...
    Fourth, he believes that aircraft maintenance is too expensive - unlike the F-35, which is widely sold around the world.

    Рњ-РґСЏ ...
  35. Dzafdet 3 February 2020 11: 05 New
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    Paid uncle, so he sang ... Let them buy the F-35. A flag in their hands and a drum on their neck ....
  36. bars1 3 February 2020 11: 09 New
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    Quote: tomket
    That feeling when you wait from the former commander for specifics with numbers, and in response, words are heard about the advanced P-51 ...

    Youth is one of the best periods of a person’s life ...
  37. bars1 3 February 2020 11: 15 New
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    Another batch of breathtaking information: on the Tu-160M ​​that flew up yesterday, the PFAR was also installed - in the best traditions of the VKS!
  38. prior 3 February 2020 11: 28 New
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    To return to Indonesia all of its palm oil received for our aircraft, and let it be settled with the Americans or the Swedes.
    1. salamat52 4 February 2020 13: 14 New
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      Indonesia has never paid for palm oil for our planes. This is gossip.
  39. Radikal 3 February 2020 11: 43 New
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    Quote: Yuri Simple
    Not as rich as it seems. But the practice of calculating palm oil should be stopped. Bad fighter? For God's sake. By the way, isn’t it time to abolish customs privileges for the import of palm oil into Russia? And yes, check all negotiators for their expenses against their income.

    Funny. And naive. lol
  40. rica1952 3 February 2020 12: 02 New
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    Well, actually there is no news here. We are behind in microelectronics, we are behind in air-to-air missiles and so on. .Our regular customers in the person of India have now bought it. Idnonesia. A country that does not invest in science but only destroys it has no prospects. And do not be offended, this reality is worse.
  41. pafegosoff 3 February 2020 12: 17 New
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    "Bad dancer ..."
    No, most likely those who gave him the F-16, now again paid for advertising products of the US aviation industry.
    Or China with its J-31?
  42. bars1 3 February 2020 12: 19 New
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    In the Soviet Union in 1940-1941 with might and main riveted fighter I-153 ... So we are not the first time.
  43. Ham
    Ham 3 February 2020 12: 25 New
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    here you have some thoughts on the adoption of fines for notorious fakes ...
    the author simply rewrote the letters from the subversive resource avia.pro ... the truth is not true this is unknown to anyone but is already sowing doubts and is subversive
  44. Yury Siritsky 3 February 2020 12: 44 New
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    It can be seen that the Americans greased him well. Well and fine, let them eat palm oil themselves.
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. Tuzik 3 February 2020 12: 58 New
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    I read it. No one even brought close the cost of servicing SU35 and (or) F35, the difference in the effectiveness of PFAR and AFAR. Oil steers)
  47. Slavka 3 February 2020 13: 34 New
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    It means passion as they want to get it.
  48. ydjin 3 February 2020 14: 01 New
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    Quote: tomket
    Quote: Ros 56
    And how many dough did the striped entom generals pour out? And after that they tell me about democracy, well, well.

    Yesterday I listened as Airbus attention !!! OBLIGATED TO PAY 10 mil. fine by the State Department for catching Europeans in giving bribes in Indonesia !!! Americans fine Europeans for giving bribes in Indonesia!

    Well, America warriors of the world punishing evil all over the world!
  49. The comment was deleted.
  50. Pilat2009 3 February 2020 14: 22 New
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    [quote = aleksey980] [quote = kjhg]
    Plus, these can be quickly and more riveted in case of urgent need and the transfer of industry to martial law. [/ Quote]
    I’m afraid that it won’t work out quickly, I’ll snuggle up to fight