Prospects for long-distance sailing "Admiral Kuznetsov"


Very often we talk about things for which there is no answer even at the highest echelons of power. Today we’ll talk about such a question. More precisely, about the ship. I will simply list the names. “Soviet Union” (at the design stage), “Riga” (laid down under this name), “Leonid Brezhnev” (at the construction stage), “Tbilisi” (at the test stage).


The sailors already realized that in fact we are talking about our long-suffering TAVKR “Admiral Fleet Soviet Union Kuznetsov ”, this is the name the ship received in 1990. The only ship of this class in the Russian Navy.

What do officials say about the completion of repairs


I am often asked questions about what will happen to this ship. Moreover, the question interests both sailors and land readers. At the same time, facts are often presented which are indisputable and speak in favor of any version of the development of events. From the complete modernization and updating of weapons to the most modern to write-offs "on needles."

The latest statement by the management of the plant, where Kuznetsov is now located, sounds optimistic. The completion deadlines are postponed to 2022, but the repair will be completed necessarily. But is it? There are so many questions on this statement that my head is spinning.

Today, the ship stands at the only berth in the north that can provide Kuznetsov-based berthing - at the mooring wall of SRZ-35 in Rost. After two serious incidents, the fire on December 12, 2019 in the first energy compartment in the bow of the ship, the subsequent flooding of this compartment and the flooding of the PD-50 floating dock on October 30, 2018 (belonged to SRZ-82), doubts only intensified.

Why does Russia need a fleet?


Have you ever thought about a simple question: why do we need a fleet? What tasks should the ships of the Russian Navy carry out? No, strategic nuclear forces, which include part of the ships, do not raise questions. Their need is not even discussed. Must be a point! This is one of the components of our strategic nuclear forces.

I’m talking about those ships that are not part of the strategic nuclear forces. What is the role of the general navy? What is the place of these ships in the Russian Armed Forces? I understand that at the level of the layman it’s easy to talk about this role. And at the document level? At the level of decrees and government decrees?

For a long time I tried to find such documents. Found! Decree of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin dated July 20, 2017 “On the approval of the foundations of the state policy of the Russian Federation in the field of naval activities until 2030” And that’s it! Strange somehow, a decree is a guide to action. What next? Not a single document about the concept of using such a fleet, about the construction of just such ships. Although, perhaps such documents exist under the corresponding stamps.

"Admiral Kuznetsov" today "froze." Most experts understand that the ship must not only be repaired, but modernized. More precisely, like this: today we have several opinions on this issue.

Cruiser must undergo a deep modernization


The first one. The ship must undergo a deep modernization and become a completely modern TAVKR. In my opinion, it was the proponents of this opinion that immediately after the fire laid out the open amount that is needed for repairs. 95 billion rubles. The amount is huge, given that the cost of the new TAVKR, according to experts, is 110 billion rubles.

But that is not all. They talked a lot about the official cause of the flooding PD-50. The cruiser is supposedly to blame. But then I, a deep land man, have a question: why the hell should I bring a ship out of the dock that has all four screws removed? Or does a heavy cruiser have screws of such a size that divers can safely install them?

Have you noticed how the talk about the dock lifting subsided? PD-50 can not be raised. Yes, and a little old dock, to be honest. Built in 1980 in Sweden. But there are no others in the Kola Bay. The dock, which generally can, and even with a stretch, “take” “Admiral Kuznetsov,” is in the Pacific Ocean. But delivering it to the north is unrealistic.

There was talk of two more solutions to the cruiser problem. First of all, about the resumption of the construction of a dry dock at the northern end of Cape Chalmpushka. Only now this construction will cost a lot of money and time. Work begun in the 80s of the last century was stopped at the “0” stage. Only blasting was carried out.

Another solution is on the opposite side of the Kola Bay. This is Novatek, where floating gas liquefaction plants will be built. There would be less work. Just lengthen the pool. But who will curtail the program of developing the northern deposits for the sake of a warship? The decision to weld two PDs into one seems to me utopian at all ...

In short, the Navy cannot do anything without its own dock. The cruiser cannot be repaired at existing facilities. But this is just a challenge for the future. Ships are a long-term investment. Today, the service life of ships is quite long. So, a repair base is needed.

Turn a cruiser into a training ship for training Navy pilots


The second one. The cruiser will undergo minor repairs, during which the power plant and electronic weapons will be replaced. By the way, this is exactly what was stipulated in the contract signed in the spring of 2018. In this case, there comes an understanding of the MO report about overstating the cost of repairs in the media (I'm talking about those 95 billion rubles). According to the contract, the cost of work then fit into 55 billion rubles. Plus the cost of eliminating fire damage.

In this case, it becomes clear that Admiral Kuznetsov will no longer have long trips. The ship is likely to become a training ship for the deck aviation. The only thing that is not yet clear is its location. You must admit that the Northern Fleet is not very suitable for training naval pilots.

Here another factor arises that can serve as a confirmation of this particular decision. According to press reports, quite serious work is now being carried out in the field of developing a spacecraft. Existing ship-based aircraft no longer meet modern requirements.

Write off the cruiser "on needles"


The third. Option to write off the cruiser. With all the pros, from the field of economics, military expediency, the impossibility of repair and all that is against the preservation of the Admiral Kuznetsov Tavkr today, there is one fact that crosses out everything. The abandonment of the aircraft carrier cruiser will mean the abandonment of aircraft carriers in general and from naval aviation in particular.

This will mean that we are abandoning the ocean and the ability to influence some countries in other regions without the use of strategic nuclear forces. Russia cannot go for it. Even though our fleet today does not represent a serious force, alas, this fact will have to be recognized, we should think about the future.

And one more question, which for us, land, does not look serious, but for sailors it is the most important. I mentioned above about the fire that occurred in the bow of the ship. There is evidence that, perhaps, the flame spread to the power cables. And this is the worst thing that can happen in a fire, simply due to the fact that fire can appear in any compartment of the ship.

But the cruiser’s crew competently organized the struggle for survivability and managed to prevent serious consequences. It was the actions of the crew that made it possible to save the ship and bring it to the pier SRZ-35. This is what applies directly to the crew of the ship. But there is also what concerns admirals.

I wondered why the ships are written off "on needles." Once upon a time I wrote about armored trains and, accordingly, about steam locomotives. So, the engine is written off “for nails”, and the ship, for some reason, “for needles”. Thanks to the films, I know that under Emperor Peter the ships were written off for firewood. Probably, naval officials survived with the advent of iron ships.

Once upon a time, in Leningrad, one of the friends, a local marine, told an interesting parable or a true story. I did not dare to check it. “If you want an unforgettable experience, go to any warship and tell one of the crew that it’s time to write off the ship“ on gramophone needles ”. Why gramophone even now I do not understand. Sailors, and most officers, did not see the gramophone in their eyes.

Admirals are the same sailors as ordinary sailors. They will by all means resist the cancellation of such a powerful and beautiful ship. To exchange a warship for trifles is stupid and insulting. Let there be a training ship. Let it be a floating airfield for sea pilots. In the end, let it be anything, but afloat, in the ranks.

We leave the question open


What is the fate of "Admiral Kuznetsov", no one can say for sure. It seems to me that even high naval commanders do not yet know about this. There is no final decision yet. Too much has become entangled in this matter. Economists, sailors, politicians, industrialists ... Each has its own reasons.

So far, the completion of the repair has been postponed to 2022. Experts believe that this is possible if the problem with PD is resolved before June 2020. We will see…
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  1. Lexus 31 January 2020 12: 15 New
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    They postponed the completion of the repair, which had not yet really begun, to 2022. Wangyu, the deadlines will still be repeatedly shifted, they can’t do it differently now, because there are managers at the levers who have a vague idea of ​​the sphere in which they work as “hand-guides”.
    You look, something else will happen (fire, drowning, etc.). Money is on fire, but there is no end in sight. Rather, the end is visible - at the "ship cemetery" in Chittagong. When the loot "burned".
    1. smart ass 31 January 2020 13: 37 New
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      Russia needs a fleet, but no Kuzya
      1. Kleber 31 January 2020 13: 46 New
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        And the Russian fleet is needed, and the TAVKR can still serve, if not military, then training for sure. It is too early for Russia to scatter such ships. Its analogue goes to the Chinese aircraft carrier (I'm talking about Liaoning).
        1. bayard 1 February 2020 03: 23 New
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          It is necessary to prepare the Kuznetsov for towing to the Black Sea - to the Kerch Bay. Only there are conditions for its repair - a dry dock 400 m long, a suitable climate and the convenience of logistics. All other plans are utopia. In the north, a dry dock will be built in 5 years, not earlier. There will also be no floating dock there in the foreseeable future.
          If you need a ship, you need to transfer it to the Gulf and repair it there. Moreover, the competencies acquired during its repair will help in the construction of large aircraft-carrying ships in this Shipyard, because there will be two KDKs built this year, and in the future it will be possible to build medium-tonnage aircraft carriers there (if such a program is adopted).
          1. smart ass 1 February 2020 16: 47 New
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            It is necessary to prepare the Kuzyu for towing in Martin
      2. Whisper 31 January 2020 13: 59 New
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        Wise guy, or you’re so smart, or troll. Please explain what you wrote.
        1. smart ass 31 January 2020 14: 25 New
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          The fact that kuzyu is expensive and useless. We do not have escort ships to complete a full-fledged AUG. There are few aircraft, pilots capable of landing on Avik even less. Efficiency surpasses, went to the shores of Syria drowned 2 aircraft returned somehow.
          1. Whisper 31 January 2020 14: 29 New
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            If you cut it, it rollback immediately to 50 years ago. It is necessary to raise Kuznetsov and build a new one. Grandmas are, the main decision to take the right one.
            1. smart ass 31 January 2020 14: 37 New
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              Yeah, let it be for a show off, let the enemies be afraid. As they say show off is more expensive than money
              1. Whisper 31 January 2020 14: 49 New
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                This is not a show, this is the price of owning technology.
                1. SovAr238A 31 January 2020 21: 02 New
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                  Quote: Sheptun
                  This is not a show, this is the price of owning technology.


                  Nonsense....
                  From the fact that in my yard the real estate Oka is rotting, my driving skills do not grow, they do not remain ...

                  And it is 100% degrading ...

                  Do you understand such an allegory?
                  1. Whisper 1 February 2020 13: 06 New
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                    And if this is the only car in the city and there is nothing to pass exams at the traffic police? How do you get right? How to pass a driving practice? It would be better not to voice their deadly logic ....
                    1. SovAr238A 3 February 2020 19: 21 New
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                      Quote: Sheptun
                      It would be better not to voice their deadly logic ....

                      do you know the condition of the ship?
                      The condition of the aircraft?

                      Do you know that not one of these heroes has passed the KBP during the entire period of his service on an aircraft carrier?
                      This is a court regiment. which has no value.
                      Outdated aircraft cannot take off with weapons.
                      Pilots who have never used weapons from these aircraft.

                      This ship has zero combat value ..

                      Over the past three decades, the Kuznetsov and its planes lived ninety percent of their lives in parallel, independent from each other. The sailors hated and did not understand the pilots, and the pilots despised the naval commanders.

                      Su-33 aircraft were made in the late 1980s - early 1990s, their resource was knocked out almost to the end.

                      Leavened cheers-patriots can continue to calculate how many generals, colonels, order-bearers and Heroes of Russia left the environment of pilots - “decks”.
                      At numerous forums, couch experts have been arguing for many years - how many planes can Kuznetsov aboard - 24, 33, 40, or 50?

                      In fact, it would be possible to land 5 Su-33s and two MiG-29Ks on an aircraft carrier.
                      And nothing more.
                      For the simple reason that at the moment in two regiments there are previously trained pilots for just such a number of machines.
                      And then - prepared to fly exclusively during the day.
                      Capable of working from the deck at night is not at all.

                      And, as we have already said, they are trained to fly, but they cannot fully use the weapons placed on their planes (which, in fact, is the work of a military pilot). To date, not a single pilot from two regiments has completely passed the KBP. And even if you forget about flying from the deck - even when working from the ground airfield, both regiments are not combat ready. About the classiness of the flight personnel of the regiments, it is generally better not to stutter.
                      1. Chief Officer 6 February 2020 22: 24 New
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                        What a deep understanding of the current moment demonstrates
                        af-ft-ar ...
                  2. ZIS
                    ZIS 1 February 2020 14: 44 New
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                    For some reason, it’s not a pity for the kids to let the wheel turn, let them train, but you can also rummage in the motor, let them learn, but you can ... There’s a lot more that can be! Well, how can you, Plyushkin, sit and wait when it falls apart from rust.
          2. NEOZ 31 January 2020 15: 10 New
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            Quote: Clever man
            The fact that kuzyu is expensive and useless.

            and what to maintain is not expensive? .... I suspect what is not ....
            and it turns out that everything is expensive to contain! and airplanes, and roads, and bridges, senior citizens, and schools, and kindergartens .... well ....
            Quote: Clever man
            We do not have escort ships to complete a full-fledged AUG.

            What do you mean by a full-fledged AUG? How many pennants are the minimum?
            Kuzya, Peter, a couple of cruisers like Moscow, a few frigates, a few pike submarines, don’t, is it not AUG?
            Quote: Clever man
            There are few aircraft, pilots capable of landing on Avik even less.

            and when it didn’t exist at all !!!!
            Quote: Clever man
            Efficiency surpasses, went to the shores of Syria drowned 2 aircraft returned somehow.

            but for nothing, everywhere it was !!!
            tanks of the first world did not show outstanding efficiency! World War I submarines showed nothing at all! World War I aircraft were generally unarmed at the beginning of the war !!!!!
            draftees, too, at the beginning do not know how, but after a year they’re quite at war !!!!
            Quote: Clever man
            drowned 2 aircraft returned somehow.

            Well, so they would have rusted in the hangar ...
            ps
            and the amer’s deck fights ... and that doesn’t stop them !!!!
            PPP
            this will not stop us either !!!!!
            1. max702 1 February 2020 14: 18 New
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              Well, they collected everything that you wrote well .. But what and where can you make useful with 30 aircraft? What will they decide? NOTHING!! 30 planes can’t stand ONE AUG of partners in any way, and it’s easy to put at least two, even three, even FIVE! And what? meaning in this expensive action? Papuans drive? Well, what about aug? We transfer hundreds of real planes to a friendly airfield and calmly equate any Papuasia .. What? There is no friendly airfield within a radius of 1000km? But then what do we do there if nobody wants to see us there? Or has someone lost the coast and is criminally insulting towards our citizens and the country as a whole? Now so here AUG is what for? Moreover, sharpened to counter the fleet? Do VKS strategists do just fine like submarines or fleets of much smaller sizes and costs? Captured hostages? And we’ll start to scrape ships from the whole fleet on the AUG, and then how do we move such strengths ... Yeah .. Isn’t it easier to use the MTR together with the VKS? time in such situations is everything, for several months no one will wait! Or should the AUG pirates drive? What exactly will all this mega-expensive machinery do? And I’ll tell you what .. It will increase the welfare of industrialists that there will be repairs and maintenance of the ship, and to high ranks of the Navy, which have duties and salaries on such a pelvis, are massively laid and all of them together will famously cut folk money on this useless project. And at that time, Vanya’s infantry will be paying with all his ass, bare-backed, trying to look at the enemy in the sight of 30s of the XNUMXth century, praying to shout command to a half-dead, frail walkie-talkie of about the same time .. Are we all right with the infantry equipment? Does communication work perfectly? Is everything good in honey provision? Or maybe life in the garrisons and units everywhere is just like on the Star TV channel? That's what you need to do, infantry fights every day for tens of years, and dozens more will fight! but the mythical AUG, having consumed trillions of rubles, will rot at the pier occasionally going out to sea to amuse the vanity of the "sea wolves" .. Think about it! What for this romance when through her fault people perish ..
              1. bayard 1 February 2020 18: 36 New
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                The problems with the lack of supply of infantry formations are not due to the presence of a medium-tonnage asian carrier on the balance of the fleet. There is money in the country.
                A lot of them .
                They do not even have time to spend!
                Last year, more than a trillion of unspent funds is in the budget — a third of the official military budget!
                And this is not counting the funds withdrawn from the budget according to the "Budget Rule" - everything above 40 dollars from the price of oil.
                The budget is bursting with money.
                The egg capsules crack and overflow.
                On the unspent amounts of only last year’s budget, FOUR SUCH CARRIERS CAN BE BUILT AS “KUZNETS”!
                These are the sums of ONE year!
                Therefore, you should not fight because of the trishkin caftan - as if not patching him, all the same, everything will be in the holes. We need a reasonable, SOVEREIGN financial policy of the state. And there is enough money for sights, and for aircraft carriers, and for radio stations with nuclear submarines. Need WILL and responsibility.
                And they must answer - with your head!
                In the most literal sense - when the head rolls off the block for an unfulfilled task. hi
                1. max702 1 February 2020 18: 54 New
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                  Understand we do not need more than one because there are no tasks for them that paid for their existence! In the USA, it’s a club of the Cold War era that brings good profits to their defense industry, for decades it’s a well-established scheme that, in addition, allows you to keep all squirrels in your fist BUT their time has passed, for example, KIM sent them away and the USA wiped out soon it will happen en masse especially when it’s on the market supersonic anti-ship missiles will come out (for hypersound has come to normal countries) and behind them hypersonic catch up and the whole fleet is reset! AUG, if you start now, this is a planning horizon of fifty years minimum, and you can imagine what will happen with the development of technology in 10-20 years? What we see now is a very belated reaction in connection with the collapse of the USSR and the hard times of the 90s-2000s, today the process has begun less .. Does the history of the Russian fleet in Crimea not remind you of anything? then astronomical amounts also swelled into the sailing fleet but overslept the technological breakthrough and all this machinery went to the bottom So today it’s too late to start with AUG .. I didn’t waste any money on it! No matter how much money they are always scarce! And you don’t need to spend on some unnecessary and expensive nonsense! There is where to spend them .. Damn the infantry with it, but is the infrastructure in our country right all ideally? maybe on the same roads? maybe education or medicine? What greater effect will the country have 4 AUGs or a couple of million km of roads? Or maybe a couple of millions of well-educated graduates of technical schools and universities?
                  1. bayard 1 February 2020 20: 41 New
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                    You have a wrong view of the problem. Do you propose building roads instead of aircraft carriers? But they are already being built and spent more than a trillion from the budget per year, and the amount for the construction of an aircraft carrier is about 20-30 billion rubles. per year they will not be reflected in the picture - they steal more.
                    Moreover, the budget is full of money.
                    They are not spent on pensions and raising salaries for teachers and doctors, the military, social needs, the development of industry and infrastructure.
                    If financial and budgetary policies change (after amendments to the constitution) - there is enough money for everything. For everything you need. Russia has a huge budget surplus and huge savings in various funds. There is not enough money, not because they are not, but because they are not given. Having - do not give. According to the budget rule and other orders and recommendations of "international" institutions.

                    And as for the tasks for these ships, then they are, and without them these tasks can be solved much worse, more difficult and more expensive.
                    First of all, it is the provision of air defense in the combat deployment zones of the SSBNs - in the so-called "bastions". And there are two such "bastions" - on the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet. And they will have to be protected from the sky by the SSBNs not from the strike, but from the anti-submarine aircraft of the enemy, to isolate the area of ​​combat deployment from it, to destroy it at distant approaches.
                    And the second task - in the same "bastion" - PLO forces of carrier-based anti-submarine aviation. On board the Kuznetsov and other such ships, there are 12 PLO helicopters in staff - this is a very serious resource.
                    And THESE tasks are top priority.
                    And expeditionary operations with shock functions - this can only be considered as an option, when it really does bake to form an AOG for admonishing some sort of barmalei - a function of a completely third degree.
                    First of all, such an aircraft carrier is needed to provide air defense. And partly - PLO.
                    And it was precisely such a function that the Kuzya was assigned to the Northern Fleet - the front line of the Fleet’s air defense and drove for enemy submarines.
                    And to solve these problems there is no need to tear any veins, when the industry is ready to build them - it is necessary to build.
                    And all the money - for their construction, will be completely spent in Russia, pour into its economy, through salaries and payments for contract work, life-giving streams will spill over the veins of the economy, people's wallets and the social sphere. Everything will remain in the country and continue to work for its prosperity even after the delivery of aircraft carriers to the fleet. Otherwise, it cannot happen when money from offshore companies, foreign securities and other money-boxes is spent on the development of industry, defense and the welfare of the people. Money is the blood of the economy. And you need to keep them in the body, and not in banks (blood banks), so that the body is healthy, grows and develops. And you can pour this blood through various injections - in infrastructure, industry, science, defense ... just to create material benefits under the "injection" programs, they settled in the pockets of citizens as wages ... and so these pockets (read - jobs) became more and more and they were deeper.
                    1. max702 1 February 2020 23: 56 New
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                      The SSBN is the same relic as the AUG .. They are not needed .. The Strategic Rocket Forces completely covers all the needs of the strategic nuclear forces .. Therefore, the argument is zero .. What else does the AUG need?
                      If your house has rotten pipes and the roof is leaking, and you go and buy a Mercedes, even a Russian assembly, then this is not the best way to spend money ..
                      All the same things you write about can be spent many times more efficiently! Are trillion roads being built? But it’s necessary for 6-10 trillion a year, and 30-30 billion for ONE only an aircraft carrier a year is a very modest initial cost of 400 billion, that is, according to your ONE avik they will build (mastering 20-30 billion a year) 13-20 years .. And the rest when? At a price it will at least go out at 8-10 billion \ dollars, and not like at 6-7 as it is today .. And yes AUG they will never fight among themselves, it’s money down the drain and this is an axiom .. Like I never fought and never fought will be Kuznetsov ..
                      1. bayard 2 February 2020 00: 46 New
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                        Quote: max702
                        30 billion for ONE aircraft carrier per year is a very modest initial cost of 400 billion

                        And what aircraft carrier did you consider?
                        Atomic?
                        At 100 tons of VI?
                        Do not fantasize like that. To ensure air defense of the fleet in the "bastions", a non-nuclear (!) Aircraft carrier of average displacement of 40-50 thousand tons of enemy aircraft is quite enough. And this will cost, according to the designers of 1,5 - 2 billion dollars. without a wing, but I counted at the rate of 2,5 billion dollars. and the construction cycle is 5 to 7 years.
                        We need to build what we need, and not what we dream of. 24 fighters, 2 - 4 AWACS (Yak-44) and 12 - 14 helicopters - this is enough for combat stability of the connection and the implementation of the main base. By the way, the Nimits have 24 fighters on board, the rest are attack aircraft / strikers, AWACS and anti-submarines. So even when we meet at sea with their - American AUG, we will have parity for air defense, and the shock functions will be delegated to us by the RCC on their carriers.
                        As for the roads and other infrastructure amenities, it will be built and will be built anyway. The federal highways have been put in order, now they are taking on the regional highways, there will be order in five years - the plans were made up, the money was allocated.
                        You do not confuse flies with cutlets and do not decide for professionals which types of troops to develop and what to refuse. Did strong post-Soviet Russia flourish in the 90s, killing its military-industrial complex and bleeding the army? At least take a calculator in your hands and calculate the effect of your offers and what will happen if the defense plants and military shipyards are stopped for the sake of your Wishlist. People also work at these enterprises, they get bread for their families. And think for yourself what will happen if we open / leave our sea borders without cover. And what will happen to Russian interests abroad if we cannot defend our interests there. Russia has a pronounced export economy and without foreign markets it ... will be bent. If you hold the spoon with your right hand, this does not mean that you do not need the left and that you need to amputate it. Believe me, many other people need BOTH hands ... and both legs. But the head needs one. To make the right decisions.
                      2. max702 2 February 2020 17: 31 New
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                        Quote: bayard
                        To ensure air defense of the fleet in the "bastions", a non-nuclear (!) Aircraft carrier of average displacement of 40-50 thousand tons is quite enough.

                        What the hell is this for? What fleet in the bastions, what should he do there? SSBN cover up? So if their tasks are transferred to the Strategic Missile Forces, then they are not needed, they are not a fleet for them!
                        According to the military-industrial complex in the 90s, it is not at all correct .. There is not a decrease in orders in the military-industrial complex, the reason for the collapse, but the collapse of everything and the whole reason for lowering orders in the military-industrial complex .. Weapons are made either when there is money for it or when there is no other way out, but in the case of AUG is categorically wrong! Yes, even if we are the first economy in the world, you can still play these toys, but we don’t! Therefore, investing in what is most effective, necessary and in demand. I repeat, we have a darkness of other tasks and directions where it is urgent to resolve the issue, and you are proposing an absolutely unnecessary and extremely costly project that will not give anything to the country ..
                      3. bayard 2 February 2020 20: 28 New
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                        Quote: max702
                        What the hell is this for? What fleet in the bastions, what should he do there? SSBN cover up? So if their tasks are transferred to the Strategic Missile Forces, then they are not needed, they are not a fleet for them!

                        I admit that a great strategist sleeps in you with simple and radical decisions ... but it is better for him to sleep further and not disturb you or those around you. According to your imagination, no one will destroy entire branches of the army. Russia (then the USSR) had only one such thing on the throne - it still hiccups - then ships and aircraft were cut, and artillery, and the army were reduced, and military bases were abandoned ... and corn was almost planted in the Arctic.
                        Now, only on slipways and at least ten nuclear submarines are being completed, the state has been tearing the veins for five years creating production, reviving the GEM technology for the fleet, the shipyards are being modernized, personnel are being trained ... and here the strategist Maxim offers a simple, I would even say the simplest solution - cut everything , dissolve everyone, save money - drink (eat, bury on the road). Comrade Sharikov in Dog Heart also offered simple solutions ... well, yes, he is excusable. Have you ever wondered why people are trying to distribute strategic nuclear forces across different branches of the army and on different hostesses? Didn’t you read books? Did you get acquainted with the history of the issue? And why is such a distribution of forces of strategic nuclear forces not only with us, but also with almost all the owners of nuclear weapons, who can afford it?
                        But you need to think. At least sometimes - before writing a post. After all, not only schoolchildren and retired sergeants communicate on our site, there were also military specialists with a good Soviet education.
                        Quote: max702
                        BUT in the case of AUG categorically not so!

                        What \ what AUG? Are you raving
                        AUG - aircraft carrier shock group.
                        Do you understand the difference in terms between the "strike" with the multipurpose nuclear aircraft carrier at the head and the "air defense carrier"? If this difference is not known to you, then at least familiarize yourself with the concept and method of combat use. They have opposite goals and objectives.
                        The main enemy of submarines (any) is anti-submarine aircraft. Submarines in front of aviation are completely defenseless and to cover them in places of combat deployment, you need to have both surface ships and air cover. And to do this by the forces of only basic aviation will not work - because of the distances. Plus, such a factor as reaction time (reaction to the threat) - basic fighters may simply not be in time to cover the submarines from the submarines of enemy aircraft. You need to be on duty in the RBD itself.
                        Plus PLO from hunter boats using anti-submarine helicopters (squadron on board) can be very effective.

                        Do you offer oil instead of guns?
                        In this case, your oil will be eaten by enemies.
                        Or do you hope it will be different?
      3. Ros 56 31 January 2020 17: 16 New
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        And this is the result of the work of such clever people.
      4. denplot 31 January 2020 19: 04 New
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        Kuzya, Avik is some kind of jargon. Have you seen the sea in your eyes? Were there? Sit on the couch in comfort, and people there risk their lives, providing you a quiet life. Two planes lost, is the cruiser to blame? Yes, it was hard for him to smoke, his enemies laughed, but he reached Syria and completed the task. Soldier! I believe that they will repair and go again!
        1. Winnie76 1 February 2020 22: 15 New
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          Quote: denplot
          Yes, it was hard for him to smoke, his enemies laughed, but he reached Syria and completed the task. Soldier! I believe that they will repair and go again!

          Of the 30 years, probably 29 stood at the pier. This is efficiency. This is KOH. Awesome stuff. And all this time to feed, shoe, dress, pay a heap of sailors.
      5. Mista_dj 6 February 2020 22: 14 New
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        Yes, we have an expert drawn here!
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Volga073 1 February 2020 20: 52 New
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    We do not need smart people, but professionals are needed ..
  • Svarog 31 January 2020 15: 47 New
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    for "at the levers" are managers who have a vague idea of ​​the sphere in which they work as "leaders".

    Men in the last topic tried to prove that today's managers are geniuses .. in particular Serdyukov .. and saved our army .. and put Khodorkovsky ..
    Armata was supposed to start arriving in the army in 2020 .. something didn’t be heard at all .. As for Kuzi, I think our managers will write this ship up to the needles .. now the deadlines are postponed, and then they will be written off .. all they will announce that there is a new project, which has no analogues, and which needs to be built, will indicate the dates for 2054 ..
    1. smart ass 31 January 2020 18: 15 New
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      Do you know who the Soviet Union collapsed? Correctly managery !! A paranoia in your head settled ???? They are!!!!
  • eklmn 31 January 2020 23: 19 New
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    For the curious:
    what did the Chinese do with the Soviet cruiser Riga
    (open the link and see the photo - before and after. Stunned!)
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a30392809/liaoning-before-and-after/
  • aftbreeze 1 February 2020 13: 41 New
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    Is the military cutting in Chitagong? I haven’t seen something!
  • Cannot be repaired, write off...
    Repair, you can’t write off ...

    You can watch the fire burning and water flowing indefinitely. But it’s even more interesting to watch the discussions on the future fate of our aircraft carrier.
    1. tihonmarine 31 January 2020 12: 51 New
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      Quote: ₮ ᗿტ ع Ոթ ტᙡ ሎ ტ ع
      You can’t repair, write off.

      “Repair cannot be completed, it can only be stopped” - the proverbial saying.
      1. Krasnoyarsk 31 January 2020 14: 17 New
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        Quote: tihonmarine

        “Repair cannot be completed, it can only be stopped” - the proverbial saying.

        Enlighten the ignorant - repair work on the “Kuz” are going on or not?
    2. Aerodrome 31 January 2020 13: 41 New
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      Quote: ₮ ᗿტ ع Ոթ ტᙡ ሎ ტ ع
      Cannot be repaired, write off...
      Repair, you can’t write off ...

      You can watch the fire burning and water flowing indefinitely. But it’s even more interesting to watch the discussions on the future fate of our aircraft carrier.

      the Chinese would have restored. we just don’t need anyone. all "types" work, everyone is waiting for "hacks" from above, and of course deneh. "Kuznetsov" reflects the attitude of the state to the fleet.
      1. Boris55 1 February 2020 09: 05 New
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        Quote: Aerodrome
        "Kuznetsov" reflects the attitude of the state to the fleet.

        "Each fruit has its own term".

        20 years ago, Russia was in ruins and was ready to fall apart. The primary task was and is to ensure the coastal territory from the encroachments of a potential enemy. The construction of a nuclear submarine fleet ensures the country's security from global threats.

        After the security of the country is ensured, we can proceed to solving the global security issues of our interests in the World, including with the help of the Navy, and then carrier-based groups will be needed.

        We have already declared our interests on the African continent. So, soon, there will be aircraft carriers.
  • Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 12: 16 New
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    The contract for the modernization of the dry dock at the 35th shipyard for docking Admiral Kuznetsov was concluded in July 2019 after the flooding of the floating dock PD-50. According to the bmpd blog, the modernization of the dry dock of the 35th shipyard consists in rebuilding two adjacent dry docks of the plant (one 187 m long and 28 m wide at the top, and the other 236 m long and 30,8 m wide at the top, both docks are wide along the bottom of 22 m) into one large dock by demolishing the partitions between them. As a result of modernization, the largest dry dock in Russia will be created for receiving large vessels and ships, which will have a length of 335 m and a width of 60 m on the bottom and 70 m on top. Today, engineering and hydraulic works are underway at 35 shipyards to further ensure the construction of a new dry dock of large capacity, designed to solve the problem of repair of ships in the SF. Work continues on the immersion of pipe dowels. January 2020


    December 2019
    1. domokl 31 January 2020 12: 27 New
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      2016 project? As far as I know, work is really being done there. The jumper will be demolished. But. Today we are talking about the creation of an Arctic ship repair center. SRZ10 and Nerpa will add. And this center will work not so much with warships as with atomic fleet. But, God forbid, of course, to get
      1. Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 12: 36 New
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        It seems that in the 2016 project, the dry dock length was planned to be 400 m, and now they write about 335 m. In general, there is a trouble with ship repair in Russia, restoration of technical readiness in terms of time is obtained as an average repair, and the average repair lasts for years.
      2. Mityay65 31 January 2020 12: 59 New
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        They talked a lot about the official cause of the flooding PD-50. Cruiser allegedly to blame

        Alexander, could you comment on this in more detail? And then this is a completely new version, not previously voiced.
  • Vyacheslav Viktorovich 31 January 2020 12: 22 New
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    They talked a lot about the official cause of the flooding PD-50. The cruiser is supposedly to blame.
    Yes, it seems they always said something else. The power outage is supposedly to blame. And Kuzyu was mentioned in this context simply because it is a meme ship.
    1. Kuroneko 31 January 2020 12: 44 New
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      Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
      And Kuzyu was mentioned in this context simply because it is a meme ship.

      Is Kuzya your friend from the next entrance?
      Have at least some respect. Such buzzwords here can offend many visitors. And there are also a lot of sailors in the VO. And for such a thing in real life, they would willingly have polished someone’s bowsprit.
      1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 31 January 2020 13: 24 New
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        Quote: Kuroneko
        Have at least some respect.
        Although I showed some, I wrote "Kuzya" with a capital letter.
    2. Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 12: 46 New
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      PD-50 drowned during the dock operation due to metal corrosion. The tower casing could not withstand the water pressure. As for turning off the power, these pumps threshed, constantly pumping water out of a rotten floating dock. Over time, the towers of the floating dock turned into a sieve and suddenly the PD-50 drowned. All the same, the PD-38 lasted 50 years without repair + he had a birth injury, which is associated with the operation of the pumps. Due to their malfunctioning, at one point in the construction of the PD-50, a water hammer occurred on the hull and the PD-50 “surfaced with dents”. It is noted that the steel sheets of PD were literally pressed inward, as a result of which they had to be "digested" in an emergency. This was a few days before the transfer to Soviet sailors. The PD-50 received damage during transportation to the USSR, when it fell into a severe storm. This also required restoration.
      Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
      And Kuzyu was mentioned in this context simply because it is a meme ship.

      You can call a kuzey your cat, I demand respect for the ship am .
      1. Victorio 31 January 2020 12: 58 New
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        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        PD-50 drowned during a dock operation due to metal corrosion. The tower casing could not withstand the water pressure. As for turning off the power, these pumps threshed, constantly pumping water out of a rotten floating dock. Over time, the towers of the floating dock turned into a sieve and suddenly the PD-50 drowned. All the same, the PD-38 lasted 50 years without repair + he had a birth injury, which is associated with the operation of the pumps. Due to their malfunctioning, at one point in the construction of the PD-50, a water hammer occurred on the hull and the PD-50 “surfaced with dents”. It is noted that the steel sheets of PD were literally pressed inward, as a result of which they had to be "digested" in an emergency. This was a few days before the transfer to Soviet sailors. The PD-50 received damage during transportation to the USSR, when it fell into a severe storm. This also required restoration.
        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        And Kuzyu was mentioned in this context simply because it is a meme ship.

        You can call a kuzey your cat, I demand respect for the ship am .

        ====
        going to raise? in parts at least
        1. Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 13: 07 New
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          Seriously PD-50 in the coming years are not going to raise. Moreover, he is not visible under water and his eyes are not callous. There is a lot to eat over water.
          1. Victorio 31 January 2020 13: 08 New
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            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            Seriously PD-50 in the coming years are not going to raise. Moreover, it is not visible

            ===
            understandable, but technically it is possible ?!
            1. Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 13: 11 New
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              Only if in parts to lift the pieces of PD-50. There is no other way, the platter when diving hit the ground with a roll, everything is sad there.
          2. aftbreeze 1 February 2020 14: 00 New
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            What a cemetery this is - only 3 steamboats!
        2. Genry 31 January 2020 16: 37 New
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          Quote: Victorio
          going to raise? in parts at least

          There is rotten metal and broken concrete. Even cutting is uncomfortable and dangerous.
      2. pmkemcity 31 January 2020 13: 24 New
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        Kuzey can call your cat, I demand respect for the ship am.

        The title "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union" still needs to be earned. In the meantime, only “Kuzya”, with all due respect to Kuznetsov.
        1. Kleber 31 January 2020 13: 37 New
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          Ships are not assigned a military rank, and the man in whose honor the ship is named earned him, as he deserved to be named after ships.
        2. Whiteidol 1 February 2020 13: 45 New
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          Have you assigned him this name, and have the right to pick it up?
      3. Mityay65 31 January 2020 13: 46 New
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        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        PD-50 drowned during the dock operation due to metal corrosion. The tower casing could not withstand the water pressure.

        This is version number 3. Two previous ones: No. 2 "the cruiser is to blame" and No. 3 "power failure" recourse
        What is it with us? "Fog of war"? fellow
        PS As a person who has been involved in the examination of pressure vessels and lifting equipment for many years, I dare say that your version No. 3 seems unlikely to me. Thinning of the underwater part of the dock due to corrosion had to be controlled very tightly. Including insurer, supervisor and operator, Rosneft. And the specialists of the pH in this respect are just animals. They are serious guys.
        1. Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 14: 26 New
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          Quote: Mityai65
          Thinning of the underwater part of the dock due to corrosion had to be controlled very tightly.

          It was just the surface part that rotted, the lining of the PD-50 towers. When the PD-50 plunged during the dock operation, it could not stand it. If it’s interesting, here’s the link previously written on the site:
          https://topwar.ru/163521-ob-obstojatelstvah-gibeli-plavuchego-dvuhbashennogo-doka-pd-50.html
        2. Alexey RA 31 January 2020 16: 47 New
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          Quote: Mityai65
          PS As a person who has been involved in the examination of pressure vessels and lifting equipment for many years, I dare say that your version No. 3 seems unlikely to me. Thinning of the underwater part of the dock due to corrosion had to be controlled very tightly. Including insurer, supervisor and operator, Rosneft. And the specialists of the pH in this respect are just animals. They are serious guys.

          Excellent. If everything is as you say, then version 3 remains - power outage (it is still the main official one).
          And here the question arises ... to the same inspectors - as they allowed, to the first category of electrical installations (interruption of power supply which may entail a danger to people's lives, a threat to state security, significant material damage, disruption of a complex technological process) there was a violation of the basic requirements of the PUE in the category:
          The first category power consumers in normal conditions should be provided with electricity from two independent mutually redundant power sources, and interruption of their power supply in case of power failure from one of the power sources can be allowed only for the period of automatic power recovery.

          Simply put, if the dock did not drown from decay, but from a power outage from the shore, then where was the backup power source? And why didn’t supervisors pay attention to his absence?
          1. Mityay65 31 January 2020 18: 03 New
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            Quote: Alexey RA
            question ... to the same inspectors - how did they allow the first category electrical facility

            I suppose, although I don’t know exactly what it is Special group of the First category of power supply. Since from a power outage will entail (but not may entail) to the inevitable accident and the threat to human lives. Accordingly, there should be three sources of power supply: two shore supply lines + automatic reserve input + a standby diesel generator in working condition or a battery with a working life of at least 3 hours. Therefore, it seems to me that version No. 1 (I mistakenly called it No. 3, but by the time it appeared it was the first) - a power outage (it is still the main official one) - crap.
            This is an assumption. I think that everything with electricity was normal and with a diesel generator too.
            As for the inspectors, the inspection had to check the availability of connection schemes, according to the norms (I’m not sure that this is a Special Group, but there should be it, the land objects would definitely have a Special Group) and the operation of automatic reserve transfer.
            As I understand it, they should have done it. also naval people because they are responsible for the ship.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Simply put, if the dock drowned not from decay, but from a power outage from the shore,

            Here the riddle is the following - if the dock is in such a state that during a break in the power supply it can sink because it receives water on an ongoing basis, and everyone knows about it, how is it allowed to operate? Especially for the repair of a warship? Aircraft carrier?
            I think this is impossible - crap too.
            Therefore, the conclusion to which I am inclined myself: versions No. 1 "power outage" and No. 3 "tower casing could not withstand the water pressure" do not beat.
            Therefore, of interest is version number 2 "the cruiser is to blame", which was expressed by the author.
            There are no others yet, but such a time may appear.
            1. Alexey RA 31 January 2020 19: 23 New
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              Quote: Mityai65
              I suppose, although I don’t know for sure, that this is a Special Group of the First Category of Power Supply. Since the interruption in power supply will entail (and cannot lead to) an inevitable accident and a threat to human lives.

              A special group of the first category is the need for food for an emergency shutdown of production:
              A special group of power receivers is distinguished from the composition of electric receivers of the first category, the uninterrupted operation of which is necessary for an emergency shutdown of production in order to prevent threats to human life, explosions and fires.

              А danger to people's lives, threat to state security, significant material damage - This is the usual first group.
              Quote: Mityai65
              I think that everything with electricity was normal and with a diesel generator too.

              They wrote that after the transfer of the SRZ to Rosneft, new effective managers optimized airborne ADGs - reduced motorists and stopped buying fuel.
              Quote: Mityai65
              Here the riddle is the following - if the dock is in such a state that during a break in the power supply it can sink because it receives water on an ongoing basis, and everyone knows about it, how is it allowed to operate? Especially for the repair of a warship? Aircraft carrier?

              As usual - temporarily, until deficiencies are resolved. Because otherwise you have to report to the top about the failure of the repair - there is no other dock with the dimensions of PD-50 in the North. So that sign, dear - for so many years everything worked fine, and now it will be.
              1. Mityay65 1 February 2020 04: 13 New
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                Quote: Alexey RA
                A special group of the first category is the need for power supply for trouble-free shutdown of production

                That's right. If technical regulation is required continuous periodic operation of the drainage system, then it will be a special group, if it is required that the water system should be switched on requirement or if necessary, then the first category will be enough. Something like this on land facilities.
                In fact, the Special is not a Special issue is secondary, although I believe that this is a Special Group. Washing, by the way, the second line could be completely not from the shore, but from Kuznetsov, but this is so by the way. I believe several diesel generators on Kuznetsovo. And the problem was not the power supply.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                They wrote that after the transfer of the SRN to Rosneft, new effective managers optimized the on-board ADGs - reduced motorists and stopped buying fuel.

                Yes, I remember that. Even then, I thought that it didn’t look like a pH. They are tough in terms of technical regulations and safety. I think it was some kind of info stuffing.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                As usual - temporarily, until the deficiencies are eliminated. Because otherwise you have to report to the top about the failure of the repair - there is no other dock with the dimensions of PD-50 in the North.

                No, this could not be, until the deficiencies were eliminated, they would not have been allowed to operate. The fact is that drainage could be on the dock on an ongoing basis - it is permissible for operation within certain limits according to those regulations. The dock was not considered emergency and was allowed to operate. There is such a practice, I consulted with a comrade mareman.
                But this is a very small arrival of water, it could not pose a threat to the dock. If the arrival of water was more than regulated, then the dock would be decommissioned for repair. I think this is again from a series of info stuffing.

                Well, here are two stuffing: "chopped off the light" and "managers stole a solarium" lol
                In fact, the problem of "drowning PD-50" is more interesting and not as simple and visual as it seems. While the presented versions, No. 1 and No. 3 do not fight.
                I hope the author of the article will give us details on version No. 2 "the cruiser is to blame."
  • Kuroneko 31 January 2020 12: 26 New
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    You must admit that the Northern Fleet is not very suitable for training naval pilots.

    I do not agree. On the contrary. The Northern Fleet naval aviation was still an elite during the Second World War, with the best pilots among all fleets. Because in the harsh conditions there, they either quickly became professionals, or a note in the column "missing."
    Why gramophone even now I do not understand. Sailors, and most officers, did not see the gramophone in their eyes.

    Because in Russia, improved gramophones of the French company Pate were especially popular. So it became a household name, as once the water closets of the Spanish company "Unitas", now all sorts of copiers.
    1. cloud catcher 31 January 2020 13: 58 New
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      Interesting about common names.
      By the way, "about all kinds of copiers."
      In France, G. Nadzhakov discovered the so-called photoelectrets. In 1953, V. M. Fridkin, who had just graduated from Moscow University, created the first xerox, and subsequently developed the theory of xerography, but failed to produce the product in the country ...
      Fridkin: “Why did we buy <..>? If only photocopiers ... Our Russian science has stood and is at the head of world progress in many areas. But to this day, we do not sell high-tech products and feed on the oil pipe." . 1973

      There are no unsolvable problems - there is a price to the question. I believe in our scientists, designers, military, engineers, specialists - professionals in their field.
      1. Avior 31 January 2020 19: 53 New
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        The Soviet "Xerox" was called Era.
        Even the term was-aerated.
        But then Xerox appeared and Era died safely .....

        ELECTROGRAPHIC COPYING MACHINE ER-620-KZ \ M1
        hi
        1. Karen 31 January 2020 20: 04 New
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          I remember I remember ... There was a piece of goods in significant enterprises, and security officers came to check who leaflets were being circulated to them ...
  • pmkemcity 31 January 2020 12: 35 New
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    But the cruiser’s crew competently organized the struggle for survivability and managed to prevent serious consequences. It was the actions of the crew that made it possible to save the ship and bring it to the pier SRZ-35.

    This is serious? Direct fault of the commander in the first place and all his subordinates. If he had "competently organized," there would have been no fire. And if he had "managed to prevent serious consequences," he would have covered it with a wet rag, or trampled it on reptiles. Proms are undoubtedly ugly, but the commander is responsible for everything.
  • rocket757 31 January 2020 12: 38 New
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    We leave the question open

    But this is the most definite thing that can be said now.
  • Nasrat 31 January 2020 12: 39 New
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    "Kuzyu" need to be on the needles and for a long time .. Benefits from him, like a goat milk. If the naval military department considers that an aircraft carrier is needed, then it’s better, cheaper and more correct to build a new ship ... and then the air wing and escort ships .. - that is, to solve the problem comprehensively ... Why take care of this mammoth, if everyone understands, that he practically cannot help the Russian fleet with anything? This is a big ship, but useless .. even harmful, considering how much money it swelled over the years!
    1. SID
      SID 31 January 2020 14: 41 New
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      Quote: Nasr
      "Kuzyu" need to be on the needles and for a long time .. Benefits from him, like a goat milk. If the naval military department considers that an aircraft carrier is needed, then it’s better, cheaper and more correct to build a new ship ... and then the air wing and escort ships .. - that is, to solve the problem comprehensively ... Why take care of this mammoth, if everyone understands, that he practically cannot help the Russian fleet with anything? This is a big ship, but useless .. even harmful, considering how much money it swelled over the years!


      Listen, ship is not a wallpaper in your living room. The task of the Navy ship is not to shine with new things before the guests. The author in the article clearly indicated the benefits of conservation and further exploitation.

      There is benefit both for the fleet and for the state, and there are still hundreds and thousands of Russians for whom work on Kuznetsov will earn money, develop and improve the profession, and experience. And sneeze at who and what emotions cause smoke from the Kuznetsov pipe.
      1. Nasrat 31 January 2020 15: 12 New
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        Quote: SID


        ... and there are still hundreds and thousands of Russians for whom work on Kuznetsov will earn money, develop and improve the profession, and experience.

        And did not consider the question - the construction of a new ship? And here your "care" about working people, etc. is decided. ... But the fact that money is being swollen into a ship that is morally ... and now physically outdated is a misfortune .. It’s not alive and not dead .. The campaign (the only one in his whole life) in Syria said everything for yourself ...
        1. SID
          SID 31 January 2020 16: 19 New
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          Considered. And it was far from equating efforts to repair and restore with the construction of a new ship. Repair and construction of a new one are: firstly, “two big differences”; and secondly, processes that are not mutually exclusive.

          And here your "care" about working people, etc. is decided. ...

          The delivery of the Kuznetsov junk is not permitted, in particular, my concern for the crew of the ship and the places for the service of conscripts recruiting at the Navy.

          In any case, I stay away from the categorical conclusions and loud advice “So it is necessary!”, Because I have very superficial ideas about the state of the Navy, the ship and the capabilities of the state and industry. And I advise you the same.
          1. SID
            SID 31 January 2020 16: 32 New
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            ... add to my care the Kuznetsov air wing and carrier-based aircraft in general - along with the prospects of the MiG and Sukhov deck decks ...
      2. Genry 31 January 2020 16: 45 New
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        Quote: SID
        There is benefit for the fleet and for the state, but there are still hundreds and thousands of Russians ...

        If it cannot be restored and modernized in a couple of years, then it is better to build a new one (although what should he do in the era of missiles), modern, and not morally and technically obsolete (a suitcase without a handle).
        1. SID
          SID 31 January 2020 16: 56 New
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          Build a new one in a couple of years ...? If this is possible, then I do not mind. However, I doubt it very much.
          And, I think, if we are already building a new one and letting Kuznitsov go to waste, it’s in that order. First, the commissioning of a new one, then the cancellation of Kuznetsov.
          1. Genry 31 January 2020 18: 33 New
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            Quote: SID
            Build a new one in a couple of years ...?

            I meant to repair the old one.
            Quote: SID
            First, the commissioning of a new one, then the cancellation of Kuznetsov.

            If there will be a couple of years between these events (and it may happen months), then messing with the old - money wasted.
            1. SID
              SID 1 February 2020 21: 22 New
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              I think there is no reason to spare money today. Pity people and missed opportunities.
    2. Alexey RA 31 January 2020 17: 33 New
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      Quote: Nasr
      If the naval military department considers that an aircraft carrier is needed, then it is better, cheaper and more correct to build a new ship ...

      15 years, no less. The Navy alone will coordinate TK for several years - with cutting around the positions of “catapult or springboard”, “GTE, KMU or AEU”, “classic AB or TAVKR”.
      1. SVD68 1 February 2020 07: 41 New
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        Quote: Alexey RA

        15 years, no less. The Navy alone will coordinate TK for several years - with cutting around the positions of “catapult or springboard”, “GTE, KMU or AEU”, “classic AB or TAVKR”.

        If so, then the aircraft carrier is definitely not needed, as long as such a guide. If the command of the Navy is not able to carry out deliberate military construction, then it will not be able to use the results of this construction. Only a meaningless waste of money, which is then better spent on other types of armed forces: Strategic Rocket Forces, VKS. They at least understand what they want and why.
        1. Alexey RA 3 February 2020 11: 02 New
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          Quote: SVD68
          If so, then the aircraft carrier is definitely not needed, as long as such a guide.

          What does it have to do with such a guide? This is the timeline for the design and construction of Queen Elizabeth. smile
          Our situation is similar: the first large ship (especially AB) after a long break, technical problems + budgetary constraints.
          1. SVD68 3 February 2020 12: 55 New
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            Exactly! Good comparison. The carriers who built it is not clear why. And all this time they argued: needed, not needed. One time they even wanted to sell. Now there are to be.
            We don’t need that.
            1. Alexey RA 5 February 2020 11: 30 New
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              Quote: SVD68
              The carriers who built it is not clear why. And all this time they argued: needed, not needed. One time they even wanted to sell. Now there are to be.

              All the misunderstandings surrounding Korolev are purely political games of the deputies of the Parliament, trying to earn political capital on anything. And also - the consequences of these games, which made the ships understandable and necessary for the fleet to the squalor that RN received as a result.
              The fleet needed a replacement for the three “Invincibles” - to solve problems both in the interests of Britain itself and in the interests of NATO. The fleet issued TK to the ship to solve these problems. And then they began to squeeze this TK into the Procrustean bed of the Treasury and domestic politics. As a result, the nuclear power plant fell off, catapults fell off, KVVP penguins appeared. And it turned out quite wrong. what the fleet was planning.
              But the politicians did not appease themselves - and, after curly trimming AB's capabilities, they started talking about reducing the program as a whole. In a political frenzy of "economy", the then prime minister even lost sight of the fact that the rejection of the building would hit precisely those areas where the advantage of his party was shaky - and could lead to defeat in the upcoming elections. However, the party members who arrived on Downing Street urgently explained to him that 50 voters who lost their jobs were not at all something to go to the polls with. smile
              And the fleet played along - he, remembering the fate of the previous "Queen Elizabeth", "missed" draconian fines to the customer in the text of the contract for refusing to build.

              By the way, in the case of the Queen, the proverb was once again confirmed greed begets poverty - saving on catapults left the deck-based air group of the new AB a choice of just one type of aircraft, the cost of which immediately began to grow. Campaign, KVVP as a result will be even more expensive ligament "catapult-ordinary deck".
              1. SVD68 6 February 2020 08: 16 New
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                Actually, you only confirm my words that we do not need aircraft carriers that are the result of biddings of political, military and industrial forces.
  • Ross xnumx 31 January 2020 12: 55 New
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    Prospects for long-distance sailing "Admiral Kuznetsov"

    There is no need to procrastinate the topic of perspective when its completion is dependent on various factors and the deadlines for commissioning objects that allow us to believe in the reality of plans.
    The cruiser has the right to "second youth"! The tasks for repair and reconstruction must be completed!
    Doubts cause timing. In Russia, on time, even budget funds manage not to be mastered. Was it in 2019? It was ... A trillion rubles? Depends ... And this can talk about what they can’t do quickly and efficiently yet, but they are already careful to steal ...
    So, until June ...
    hi
  • knn54 31 January 2020 12: 57 New
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    I would add to the article a section- “A ship is like a mirror of naval problems.” And maybe not only the fleet ...
    1. Mityay65 31 January 2020 14: 15 New
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      Quote: knn54
      Or maybe not just the fleet ...

      In principle, yes, what is happening with Kuznetsov is a symbol of the era, a symbol of time ...
      PS There are actually two questions:
      - Do we still shoot admirals on a quarterdeck?
      - Does Kuzi have a quarterdeck?
      1. Senior seaman 31 January 2020 16: 48 New
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        We never shot admirals (especially admirals) on the shkants, as, probably, in other fleets. Because there are yards and an almost unlimited supply of ropes (cables, lines, skerts, etc.), and a man hanged from a mast is a good sign. But to put a board on the deck and let the condemned take a walk on it, this is just from a quarterdeck :)))
        Shkants, otherwise, a quarterdeck (a quarter) is part of the deck from the mainsail to the mizzen mast. Since there is neither one nor the other on Kuznetsovo, the question is redundant. request
        1. Mityay65 4 February 2020 17: 07 New
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          On March 17, 1757, English Admiral Bing was shot at the quarterdeck of his own flagship Monarch. Voltaire said: "In this country, it is customary to shoot some admiral from time to time in order to inspire others." fellow
          1. Senior seaman 5 February 2020 11: 24 New
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            Well, that means that one still was. But not with us ...
            And limes, in general, are entertainers in this sense.
  • Thrifty 31 January 2020 12: 58 New
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    Knowing our realities, you need to modernize the ship. Our grandchildren will not see the new aircraft carrier in the Russian fleet. We need to act on the principle of “use what is at hand and don’t look for something else!” Otherwise, we’ll remain without an aircraft carrier. ...
  • prior 31 January 2020 13: 03 New
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    "The abandonment of the aircraft carrier cruiser will mean the abandonment of aircraft carriers in general ..."

    Well, they abandoned the country, their homeland called the USSR ......
    and then some cruiser, just some business.
    Losing your head in the hair do not cry.
    You can’t go to the toilet in a big way - don’t torment your ass.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Bashkirkhan 31 January 2020 13: 17 New
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      Quote: huntsman650
      not a single 965 on the move we have left, boilers ... oh.

      The essence of the problem is that at 956 there were high-pressure boilers KVG-2, where the water quality standards were approximately the same as on a nuclear submarine, plus the problem of de-oxygenation of feed water. Oxygen in feed water leads to intergranular corrosion. All this requires a good organization of water treatment on the ship and knowledge of the materiel. The problem with the quality of feedwater arose during the period of democratic reforms, primarily due to the outflow of qualified specialists of the BC-5 and the decrease in demanding. In short, they scored everything; as a result, the iron did not forgive its negligent attitude.
      1. donavi49 31 January 2020 14: 07 New
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        Well, this is solved in two main directions:
        1 - according to which the Chinese went (2 AB + 1 are built on improved boilers + all 4x956 are modernized) = formation of stable and responsible crews. Multilevel control of actions. In the Navy, they were able to realize this only at Bystry - in fact, it is the only destroyer in the entire fleet capable of carrying BS in the far sea zone.

        2 - on which the Chinese went very deeply, and very limited ours. Improving systems, increasing peak values, introducing additional monitoring and insurance systems into the installation. All water treatment has already been transferred to an automatic system (new AB, head 956 after modernization) - where it will not be able to handle the l / s.
  • Jack O'Neill 31 January 2020 13: 05 New
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    Kyuzu can’t be written off in any way, he is needed, he is very necessary, he will give the fleet flexibility, even the very fact of Kuzi’s existence.
    We need, just, we really need aviation in the ocean! And her, aviation, can only give Kuzya.
  • Pavel57 31 January 2020 13: 28 New
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    The basing issue is relevant anyway. We have no southern seas.
  • Andrey Zhukov 31 January 2020 13: 45 New
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    This question is enough to understand everything about the author:
    "What is the role of the general navy? What is the place of these ships in the Russian Armed Forces?"
    He does not know that without "general-purpose" ships, naval strategic nuclear forces are absolutely useless and not viable.
    Strategic submarines will be destroyed before they launch rockets, without covering other ships. not to mention that our coast without a fleet will have a passage yard for NATO submarines.
    And yet, the author did not hear about the modernization of the dry dock at 35 shipyard ((
  • Ratmir_Ryazan 31 January 2020 13: 46 New
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    The Russian fleet is needed, like the army, to ensure the country's security and protect our interests.

    The Russian fleet is needed for the defense of its near sea zone - frigates, corvettes, diesel-electric submarines, minesweepers, and for operations beyond its borders - destroyers, cruisers, UDC, aircraft carriers.

    TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" needs to be restored to the state of combat use and there cannot be other options here! No matter how much money we spend on it, they will all remain in our economy and go to our enterprises and our engineers and workers. In another way, we will not get experience in the operation and construction of aircraft carriers.

    At the same time solve issues with docks, dry and floating, with an eye to the future.

    Also carry out work on future aircraft for aircraft carriers.

    Nothing duck can be costly, like saving on your own armed forces.
    1. Old Michael 31 January 2020 14: 07 New
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      restore to a state of combat use and other options here can not be!

      As much as you can!
      Our Soviet / Russian bureaucracy has found and long ago perfectly mastered the universal option. It is called "Conservation Problems." This is a modernized idea of ​​the shah / donkey.
      Well, stamping his foot Glavkoverh: "Prepare and report proposals!" - prepare and report. That's just their value will not be higher than zero due to the lack of a reasonable medium-term forecast for the development of the military-political and economic situation. And such a forecast, especially required for making critical decisions, no one will take on their conscience.
      Or does someone know exactly how the world will change after the elections in the USA, in the Russian Federation and other miracles in other parts of the world?
  • Boris Ivanov 31 January 2020 13: 48 New
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    a suitcase without a handle. and quit sorry and bear hard ..
  • cniza 31 January 2020 14: 07 New
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    So far, the completion of the repair has been postponed to 2022. Experts believe that this is possible if the problem with PD is resolved before June 2020. We will see…


    We can only guess.
  • Andrey Mikhaylov 31 January 2020 14: 31 New
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    LEAVE THE QUESTION OPEN, AND ALL
    1. New Year day 31 January 2020 16: 10 New
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      Quote: Andrey Mikhaylov
      LEAVE THE QUESTION OPEN, AND ALL

      It will not work, because the technical condition of the ship is only part of a big problem:
      1. For decades, he never found his place, motor resources went to the parking lot in the roads. Found shelter on the shipyard forever?
      2. At the time of the campaign to Syria, there were a dozen pilots taking off and landing from the deck, now only half, the rest are gone. After 2 years, how many decks will remain?
      3. What to do with NITKoy in Saki-4 and in Yeysk? They are designed for decks, which are almost nonexistent.
      4. Localization of the ship in the North, killing him. Admiral Selivanov called it that. He needs the South, corrosion processes are inexorable. Only one place is the Black Sea. The possibilities of training flights in the North are limited by the weather and there is no time to fly there and, it turns out, no one.
      5. Write-off of a ship means a cross on carrier-based aircraft and its reincarnation is highly doubtful.
      1. Genry 31 January 2020 17: 42 New
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        Quote: Silvestr
        It will not work, because the technical condition of the ship is only part of a big problem:

        The technical condition is a consequence of his moral old age. Damaged propulsion system, appendage of weapons not intended for flights, outdated equipment of all types with non-optimal use of areas and volumes for new equipment (other sizes), the need to use new types of aircraft and UAVs with different principles of preparation and storage (small devices are multi-storey).
        This can’t be fixed anymore - it’s easier to build a new, modern ship.
        Quote: Silvestr
        2. At the time of the campaign to Syria, there were a dozen pilots taking off and landing from the deck, now only half, the rest are gone. After 2 years, how many decks will remain?

        Even a dozen and a half is very little for active use.
        Due to landing on the finisher (large negative overloads), the pilot can perform one flight in three days (prevention of retinal detachment).
        Quote: Silvestr
        3. What to do with NITKoy in Saki-4 and in Yeysk? They are designed for decks, which are almost nonexistent.

        They are needed for testing new aircraft and UAVs.
        Quote: Silvestr
        5. Write-off of a ship means a cross on carrier-based aircraft and its reincarnation is highly doubtful.

        Deck aviation should radically change in terms of its functions and the modern type of aircraft - this will require a change in the appearance of aircraft carriers.
        A functionally new aircraft carrier should provide:
        - Flights of cargo aircraft urgent support squadron (crew members, medical services, documents, food, ....);
        - UAV flights for reconnaissance, communications, escort in guidance of cruise missiles for attack.
        Using a UAV removes the problem of pilots and reduces the number of personnel directly on an aircraft carrier by performing only take-off / landing and maintenance functions.
        Flight operators may be located on other ships or on land.
      2. malyvalv 1 February 2020 02: 28 New
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        Quote: Silvestr
        Localization of a ship in the North is its killing. Admiral Selivanov called it that. He needs the South, corrosion processes are inexorable. Only one place is the Black Sea. The possibilities of training flights in the North are limited by the weather and there is no time to fly there and, it turns out, no one.

        Such a ship in the Black Sea has nothing to do. He created for the oceans. He needs a free exit there.
  • Galleon 31 January 2020 15: 00 New
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    Until the ship is repaired, reasoning about its future fate is a waste of time. However, here in VO you can’t get used to it ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • SID
    SID 31 January 2020 15: 15 New
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    Thank you for the article hi - this is first.
    Secondly, a few notes to her ...

    Author: Only here is this building will cost a lot of money and time. Work begun in the 80s of the last century was stopped at stage “0”. Only blasting was carried out.

    Money for the state is a means to measure the resources it has allocated for one thing or another ... You noted in the article “Novatek” located on the opposite side of the Kola Bay. Here is an illustration of the fact that there is money, there would only be a conscious need at the highest levels of statehood and the command of the RF Armed Forces. Money is a means of motivation to work for people. If there are resources and objective opportunities, then providing the project with money is a purely technical issue (for sovereign statehood). This is if all is well. That is, there are no monetary problems in the fate of Kuznetsov. There is misunderstanding / ignorance, there is covetousness, there is laziness, there is betrayal, there is sabotage - all this is an urgent issue requiring not "a lot of money", but "good personnel" both in the Navy, in industry, and in the relevant institutions of statehood .

    Author: The abandonment of the aircraft carrier cruiser will mean the abandonment of aircraft carriers in general and from naval aviation in particular. This will mean that we are abandoning the ocean and the ability to influence some countries in other regions without the use of strategic nuclear forces.

    “Well, thanks, good” - neither add nor turn down. It is capacious and exhaustive for one who is interested in essence, and not for transfusions from empty to empty.

    Author: What is the fate of "Admiral Kuznetsov", no one can say for sure. It seems to me that even high naval commanders do not yet know about this.

    It seems to me that "even the highest bosses do not know about this" is the main problem of the Russian Navy.
  • NEOZ 31 January 2020 15: 50 New
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    I believe, that:
    1. modernized Gorshkov
    2. We are also upgrading Kuznetsov!
    3. upgrade and Lazarev!
    all.
    start to complete the tasks!
  • Andrey.AN 31 January 2020 15: 51 New
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    Divers, by the way, do not have to do everything manually by hand, they hang a garland of electromagnetic mounts on the case, install the equipment and do everything.
  • Andrey.AN 31 January 2020 16: 36 New
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    And the screws do not fasten the floats for a long time, making them light under water.
  • Azis 31 January 2020 18: 23 New
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    It seems to be written off after all. Otherwise, they would have already strewed with floodlights of modernization with the corresponding presentations: "Submarine low-orbital aircraft-carrying nuclear missile stealth cruiser of the reinforced ice class with eight flight decks ... by 2057 as part of the Navy." In general, you need to rename it to “Putin”, they will make a decision sooner.
  • Avior 31 January 2020 19: 40 New
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    Project 1143 Gyrfalcon
    The fate of the Soviet aircraft carrier fleet
    1. Kiev - commissioned in 1975, decommissioned 1993
    Sold to unknowns for $ 1,6 million who resold it to China for $ 8,2 million
    2. Minsk - commissioned in 1978, decommissioned 1993
    Sold to China via South Korea for $ 4,6 Million
    3. Novorossiysk - put into operation in 1982, decommissioned 1993
    Sold to South Korea for $ 4,3 million.
    4. "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" - commissioned in 1987, decommissioned 2004
    Transferred to India for free, provided that India paid for the repair of the ship and acquired 16 Mig-29k
    5. Varyag - the ship is unfinished, construction stopped in 1992 due to lack of funding.
    The hull of the unfinished ship was sold to China in 1998 for $ 20 million and towed to China 4 years before 2002, where it was completed as a training aircraft carrier in 2012 as Liaoning under a converted project.
    6. Ulyanovsk - construction was stopped in 1991 due to the cessation of financing at the initial stage, the final decision to refuse construction and dismantling was made in 1992.
    7 Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov- commissioned in 1991.
    The future is in the fog ....
    hi
  • Petrol cutter 31 January 2020 20: 05 New
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    Complicated article. And heavy.
    To which I personally unfortunately have no answer and imputed offers. Here, I feel like it, and I’m pricked, and my mother doesn’t order ... And then, as it were, it’s necessary ... recourse
  • Reklastik 31 January 2020 20: 18 New
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    For a long time I tried to find such documents. Found!
    - Have you read Viti Suvorov? ))))
  • 30143 31 January 2020 20: 39 New
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    Migrating the words of Mueller - you explain to them that without Ukraine they will not succeed! Well, there are no personnel in the Russian Federation who could build and modernize such ships.
    Remember the Mistral. How they shouted that we had mastered and made an analogue. Where is the analogue? How many years have passed.
    Well, there are no opportunities and money ...
    1. 75 Sergey 31 January 2020 23: 10 New
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      To hell with the poor, God will give.
      Now a shipyard is being built in Murmansk, an aircraft carrier is a trifle for her.
    2. Alexey RA 3 February 2020 11: 13 New
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      Quote: 30143
      Migrating the words of Mueller - you explain to them that without Ukraine they will not succeed! Well, there are no personnel in the Russian Federation who could build and modernize such ships.

      And a lot of Ukraine has built aircraft carriers since the collapse of the USSR?
      Or do you think that the personnel and the plant, in the absence of orders, are self-preserving and hibernating without loss of qualifications and technical condition? And upon receipt of the order, they are immediately deployed back to the finished plant with experienced specialists? wink
      The Ukrainian cadre of builders of aircraft carriers now is a handful of pensioners. For three decades they forgot more than they remembered.
      1. 30143 4 February 2020 20: 59 New
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        Well, at least they are. Although, we have to admit general technical degradation.
        1. Alexey RA 5 February 2020 11: 31 New
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          Quote: 30143
          Well, at least they are.

          They are not here. Those who wanted to build ships scattered around the places where they were being built. And the rest live their lives.
  • Ryaruav 31 January 2020 22: 01 New
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    Commander in chief, we have a trepach, and naturally, his subordinates are also trepachs, and this has been the case in our country since the time of the trepach of Stavropol and his wife, who for the necklace she cheated on our latest tactical missiles, the glory to clever people was preserved
  • 75 Sergey 31 January 2020 23: 08 New
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    KUZNETSOV, this is a training ship and we need it, whether new aircraft carriers are needed - the question.
  • shoroh 1 February 2020 00: 06 New
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    It seems to me that they will figure out a place for repairing an aircraft carrier. And its repair will be not only in order to return it to combat readiness, but also in order to launch the necessary technological chains for testing new solutions for a new ship. First, repair the old, and introduce new solutions, then build a new one taking into account experience, and then on. And so it should move. There are drawings according to Kuznetsov, there are according to Ulyanovsk. I am sure that there will be a day when there will be several aircraft carriers in Russia. And the modernization of Kuznetsov, the construction of the dock for him are the necessary first steps.
  • evgenii67 1 February 2020 08: 10 New
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    Undead boho, nefig start. So with Kuzya, now there is no aircraft carrier and Kuzya nifga is not to them.
  • Vladimir1155 1 February 2020 20: 07 New
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    to sell to India and China, and with the proceeds to build many planes, minesweepers and submarines
  • Dima Dima_2 2 February 2020 00: 34 New
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    Poor Kuzya drowned and burned to go on a well-deserved rest, but everyone does not let him in.
  • Ruslan Kartonov 2 February 2020 07: 43 New
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    Even if half of the ship is left, it will still be completed.
  • stepka_razin 2 February 2020 11: 40 New
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    ACG in the modern world is an indicator of whether a country is a geopolitical player or not
    1. Alexey RA 3 February 2020 11: 13 New
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      Quote: stepka_razin
      ACG in the modern world is an indicator of whether a country is a geopolitical player or not

      And how many aircraft carriers do the Vatican have? © smile