India bought howitzers from the USA, but dissatisfied with quality


Military-technical cooperation (MTC) with India has always been a complex and controversial thing. Indian generals and politicians are turning most arms and military equipment deals into a rare booth. The characteristic features of this booth are endless tenders, which are postponed, then announced again, then various corruption details are clarified, some persons involved in the Indian side, for example, generals, are removed from their posts, put on trial (or not), conditions, terms and so on change Further. Often this happens during political changes in the country: the government that has come to power also wants its own piece of cake of kickbacks from suppliers. All this is served with a healthy sauce of "access to various advanced technologies" or "diversification of suppliers." Do not forget about the compulsory licensed assembly of many purchased samples in India, which often also becomes a booth when the industry is not able to master the technology and is engaged in the assembly of car kits, calling it production. Diversification itself, of course, is not so bad - a powerful military power, of course, cannot depend on any one supply, be it Russia or, say, the United States.


Artillery Zoo


Indians have purchased a lot from the United States in recent years (including for corruption reasons outlined above) weapons at just furious prices sometimes, but the quality and technological level of these weapons are often seriously inferior to its price tag and competitors. A striking example of such a deal is the contract for the supply of 145 155-mm 39-gauge towed howitzers M777A2. India traditionally turns its 155-mm artillery park into a rare zoo with a bunch of systems from different countries. Equipped with, for example, Swedish towed (self-propelled) Bofors howitzers and a number of completely outdated systems, they also purchase South Korean self-propelled guns 155 mm / 52 cal. K9 Vajra-T, which is an adapted version of the K9 Thunder self-propelled guns (they preferred it to our 155mm Msta-S 2S19M1-155 self-propelled guns, which, objectively, will be better in a number of ways), but they are also developing their own on this topic.

At the same time, they still developed, tested and adopted the products of the "domestic" manufacturer DRDO - the 155-mm 52-caliber towed ATAGS system weighing as many as 18 (!!!) tons, that is, in general, this system will weigh together with the tractor almost like a tracked self-propelled guns and heavier than many wheeled self-propelled guns, without the advantages of self-propelled guns. For comparison: the domestic 152-mm howitzer 2A65 Msta-B, one of the main heroines of the Russian military participation in the war in Syria, weighs 7,1 tons, and the American M198 - 7,3 tons.

"Titanic" choice


But back in 2006, India announced its desire to buy also a light 155-mm artillery system and as a result, instead of the Singapore howitzer, which was preferred at first, stopped at the BAE’s M777A2 howitzer, which weighs a little more than 4 tons. True, you have to pay for this lightness of the 39-caliber artillery system - the cost of a howitzer is extremely high, because titanium alloys are used, and not only therefore. You must also pay for ease of use, and many others. But the Indians really needed a six-inch artillery system, which could be transferred by helicopter on an external sling, and in the mountains - they needed them in the high-mountainous areas of the border with China and Pakistan too. Under these howitzers, a tender was announced for heavy military transport helicopters, which the American Chinook won (supposedly due to better altitude compared to the Mi-26T, which could carry it away).

The signing of the contract was constantly delayed. Either because of corruption scandals, or because of attempts by BAE to cheat on the offset part of the transaction, that is, to reinvest in the economy of the buyer country in one way or another. There is an offset part in almost any transaction on military-technical cooperation, unless absolutely “non-slave” countries like Poland and Ukraine do without it. In a deal with howitzers, the offset was 30% of the amount and had to be performed by BAE within 4 years. The company was trying to extend the term to 6 years and reduce the percentage, and the deal almost fell through. The price tag for howitzers also grew steadily and grew from $ 493 million to $ 885 million, that is, the howitzer has doubled in price, and the price tag is quite comparable to the modern one a tank or self-propelled guns. Moreover, the T-90MS or even the T-14 would be cheaper ...

In the end, the contract was signed only in 2016, according to it the first 20 howitzers should come from the United States, the rest should be assembled in India within 54 months. But the execution of the order was delayed - it began not six months after the signing of the contract, but already after 2 years, and the pace is still breaking down.

American means great!


And the other day, Indian sources reported problems with the quality of the advertised expensive "three hatchets", as this art system is often called with us. During the Indian field trials of the first two M777A2 howitzers delivered at an army training ground in Pokran, one of the two recently purchased M777 howitzers reportedly collapsed, was torn apart, and it was only due to safety measures that no one was hurt. Apparently, they fired from overseas equipment, as they say, “from the rope” and from cover, and they did it right. This failure was recognized by BAE. Given that these howitzers are designed to be deployed on the Chinese highland border and cannot be replaced, their insecurity is likely to jeopardize India's capabilities in the region.

According to the Indian Army’s leaked media reports, the insufficient efficiency of the M777A2 howitzers was “completely predictable,” and the howitzers did not meet the technical requirements for a number of critical characteristics during previous field trials. According to the sources of the Hindustan Times, the Indian Armed Forces reported that the M777A2 did not work well, for example, with direct fire, and they fulfilled the key requirements for air mobility with problems. But they were taken precisely for this! There were also serious shortcomings in the resource of the barrel, in the minimum firing range and a number of others.

Moreover, the unreliability of the “three hatchets” has not been a secret for a long time. The American army loves this artillery system only because the M198 is worse, in their opinion, and the self-propelled guns "Paladin" M109A6, even the Americans don’t really call a good language. And cases with ruptured trunks of the M777 have accumulated enough. Moreover, they, in general, were not usually associated with sloppiness of calculations (as it usually happens), for example, for a long time that did not clean the gun’s bore or allowed, say, pebbles or soil to enter the bore and did not remove it before firing. So, in February 2014 at Fort Bragg, one GI was killed and two more were seriously injured when the M777 barrel was torn apart during firing. A month later, three Australians (M777, except the United States, where about 1000 of these systems are still in Australia and Canada, where there are dozens of them) were seriously injured during the shooting. Moreover, in Fort Bragg the M777 exploded earlier, in 2011, when there were already 10 as a result of the injured. There were also episodes with victims in a combat situation, for example, on August 12, 2017, in Iraq, during the siege of Mosul, 2 and 5 soldiers were injured. The Americans were still trying to attribute this episode to the success of the Igilov strike drone.

Will conclusions be drawn?


The question arises: when the Indian military bought this wonderful titanium product, where did they look? In your pocket or checked the status of the account in a Swiss or other bank? It is hardly possible that New Delhi, who periodically flirts with Washington, can explain this "night blindness" of Indian generals and colonels.

If India continues to consciously make expensive purchases of imperfect weapons systems, this could seriously undermine its military capabilities and make its armed forces vulnerable during the war, indignant Indian media write. The fact that the M777 purchases are taking place despite the fact that the military was fully aware of the problems with them is an alarming indicator for the country's arms and military equipment procurement strategy. Because it indicates that "selection criteria other than price and efficiency, as well as the reliability of the weapon model prevail," and it clarifies what criteria it is - corruption and extortion of political favor from Washington. And this is not the first time that India has bought any of the weapons from the United States and found out that the quality does not match the price for the clouds.

But the Indian media and a number of opposition politicians who are "breaking up" the topic hope that out of stories necessary conclusions will be made. But hardly - painfully good "kickbacks" are offered by uncles from across the ocean. So Indian military mice will cry, prick, but continue to eat American cacti. In the end, during a howitzer barrel rupture, it’s unlikely that there will be at least one minister, member of parliament, or general. And there are many people in India.
Author:
Photos used:
Lance cpl. Jose D. Lujano, commons.wikimedia.org
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  1. anjey 1 February 2020 03: 48 New
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    India bought howitzers from the USA, but dissatisfied with quality
    Judging by the frequent publications, India is constantly dissatisfied with something, does not fit in with the ancient religion - Hinduism, which preaches, be happy small and always be in harmony with the outside world laughing
    1. Hunter 2 1 February 2020 03: 51 New
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      The rear services will have a special HARMONY ... they only have to deal with the existing arsenal and the ammunition necessary for it - it is necessary to invent Artificial Intelligence, otherwise there will not be enough life for a mortal! Hindus, as always, are Harnessed, in breaks from songs, dances and decoration of all Flowers! belay
      1. max702 1 February 2020 12: 07 New
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        It is difficult with them, my friend worked under a contract with them as an electrician with a salary of 200 rubles, plus accommodation, food at their expense .. It seems to be normal? But at the same time, in addition to work, two Indians were attached to him, whom he had to teach what he was doing .. Communication through English, only if they had any English, then there were no electrical skills in principle .. And how? they didn’t do the wiring there in the back room, but connected the equipment and installed the power grids .. Four months later, he sent everyone and went home .. He says no money is needed for such brainstorming ..
        1. Tatar 174 1 February 2020 19: 33 New
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          They had their own howitzer somehow on the video, but only there the artillerymen somehow danced like circus dogs ...
          1. Shurik70 1 February 2020 20: 38 New
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            A friend told me. He installed our turbines in power plants in India. He arrived there as a specialist, along with turbines.
            The local engineers did not look at the indicated overall dimensions in the drawing, but measured the drawing with a ruler, then multiplied the millimeters by scale on the calculator. When asked why, if the size in the drawing is indicated, the answer simply struck:
            "- What if someone wrote, he made a mistake with the number"
            This is how many times the Indians need to face "mistakes" in their drawings in their lives so that such a reflex develops ...
          2. Ponchik78 2 February 2020 14: 41 New
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            This is the Swedish Bofors mentioned in the article.
    2. Range 1 February 2020 03: 57 New
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      This is their karma.
      1. bessmertniy 1 February 2020 04: 38 New
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        This is ordinary greed. negative Pills from greed are necessary for their corrupt officials. “And more, doctor, more!” fellow
        1. Range 1 February 2020 04: 45 New
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          My comment above is just drinks banal banter.
      2. knn54 1 February 2020 09: 59 New
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        But the "light". Oats, I'm sorry titanium is expensive today.
      3. rich 1 February 2020 14: 41 New
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        India bought howitzers from the USA, but dissatisfied with quality

        Why then buy? Although, according to the rules, if they still have a check from the store, they can exchange the goods back for money. I have a neighbor - a lawyer on such issues (no ads) what
        1. Lopatov 2 February 2020 11: 35 New
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          Quote: Rich
          Why then buy?

          To get highly advanced technology. For example, guns firing at a preliminary roll-out of the barrel, they were precisely transferred to India under this contract. And in the 105 mm variant, and in the 155 mm variant


          Moreover, a licensed copy of the M777 is also already in the hardware. Rather, here in titanium laughing .

          The photograph is not the American M777, but the Indian Bharat ULH 155x39 from the "Kalyani Group"

          Perhaps they will be able to throw the Americans the same way. how they once threw the Scandinavians to close purchases under some pretext (in the version with the Swedes they used corruption charges) and start taking similar tools from their manufacturers.
    3. SVD68 1 February 2020 07: 29 New
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      Hinduism does not preach this.
      1. Shuttle 1 February 2020 09: 49 New
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        Quote: SVD68
        Hinduism does not preach this.

        Hinduism does not preach anything. This umbrella term was coined by the English colonialists to mean what they saw in India. For them, what is Vaishnavism, what is Buddhism, what is Shaivism, what is Sikhism, what is Jainism - all are one - Hinduism.
        Meanwhile, between them the difference is no less than between all Abrahamic religions and scientific communism combined with them.
      2. anjey 1 February 2020 09: 51 New
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        Hinduism is a very diverse and complex religion. Each direction in Hinduism has a set of rich religious practices. In Hinduism, it is customary to distinguish four main areas:
        Vishnuism
        Shaivism
        Smartsizm
        Shaktism
        All these four areas have common ritual practices, beliefs, traditions and concepts of the personal God, but each of them professes its own philosophy, different ways of achieving the ultimate goal of life - moksha
        Many trends are associated with the renunciation of worldly fuss and constant prayers and gifts to the gods to achieve harmony of mind and body laughing
        1. Shuttle 1 February 2020 13: 22 New
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          Quote: anjey
          Many trends are associated with the renunciation of worldly fuss and constant prayers and gifts to the gods to achieve harmony of mind and body laughing

          Gifts to the gods, or rather offerings of material things, are the essence of pagan cults. Those. when an incorporeal deity is presented with an incorporeal form of an object in order to satisfy the deity. At the same time, the physical form is in one way or another rendered unusable so that no one but the deity can use it anymore.
          One Vedic cult, Vaishnavism, whose followers account for up to 80% of all so-called Hindus, there is a cult of worshiping Krishna / Visnu in one form or another of His. When worshiping any of these forms, material destruction is not applied. Even such a renunciation of worldly bustle as sannyas (monasticism) is considered in its highest manifestation as an internal and not external renunciation. Those. outward appearance of material renunciation is a way to strengthen oneself for real inner renunciation. The latter, however, involves taking responsibility for everyone around us in the form of an active sermon. So far from everything is so simple and it would seem understandable as vulgar ideas about Christian monasticism. I emphasize precisely the vulgar ideas about him, and not monasticism per se.
    4. chistyakov.trofim 1 February 2020 10: 14 New
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      The most interesting thing is that they themselves can not do anything.
    5. Prisoner 1 February 2020 11: 37 New
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      laughing But this religion does not say that you have to spend crazy money for this little thing.
      1. anjey 1 February 2020 12: 41 New
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        Yes, especially the Hare Krishnas, for example, reject all violence in their religious philosophy, so this does not fit in with any weapons at all and the Hindus all mock and swarm in the instruments of death laughingIt seems so they never reach Nirvana laughing
        1. Soveticos 1 February 2020 15: 16 New
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          The peacefulness and harmlessness of Hindus and Buddhists is all Western propaganda. In fact, they are still scumbags and absolutely ruthless people. From what Buddhists in Burma or Hindus in some states of India do, their hair stands on end. In their atrocities against others, they are superior to the Ishilovites. Unlike the fanatics of the Ishilovites, these absolute cowards and twigs are only against obviously defenseless people. And they eat all sorts of nastiness and hygiene is alien to them, so any infection from there is rushing.
    6. TermNachTer 1 February 2020 11: 55 New
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      As the saying goes: "The circus left - the clowns remained." I’m wondering, in all these dances and songs, which is more - the corruption component or the desire to “annoy” colleagues from a rival party? It’s clear that defense issues have nothing to do with it. With such a variety of weapons, the Indians can only hope that before a real war, with a serious adversary, things will not come.
    7. Altona 2 February 2020 01: 16 New
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      Quote: anjey
      Judging by the frequent publications, India is constantly dissatisfied with something, does not fit in with the ancient religion - Hinduism, which preaches, be happy small and always be in harmony with the outside world

      ---------------------
      Can I change something in karma? Well, not literally rushing. laughing laughing
    8. wayden 4 February 2020 18: 46 New
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      I doubt that it says "be happy with trash" or "beware of a close gap."
      1. anjey 5 February 2020 05: 59 New
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        All the will of God laughing
  2. svp67 1 February 2020 03: 49 New
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    India bought howitzers from the USA, but dissatisfied with quality
    Who is surprised by this? I've never once ...
  3. strannik1985 1 February 2020 04: 40 New
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    ATAGS towed howitzer with APU, before the M777A2 or MSTA-B it has a great advantage, it is able to move independently within the firing position area.
    By design, the licensed FH-77B (weight 12 kg, differs from FH-200A (weight 77 kg, 11 calibers) with a piston lock and barrel of 500 calibers), hence the weight of 38 tons.
    1. TermNachTer 1 February 2020 11: 57 New
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      You want to say that one caliber of barrel length and another bolt weigh 6 tons?
      1. strannik1985 1 February 2020 12: 53 New
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        The difference in weight between the FH-77A and the FH-77B is 700 kg.
      2. Lopatov 2 February 2020 12: 19 New
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        Quote: TermNachTER
        You want to say that one caliber of barrel length and another bolt weigh 6 tons?

        Everything is much more complicated there.
        ATAGS is a product of a very deep processing of Scandinavian and Israeli technologies of the state DRDO (an analogue of the American DARPA) with a stated firing range in 60 km (155 x 52)



        The "light version" is called Dhanush, the development of also the state OFB (Ordnance Factory Board, Management of weapons factories) of the same organization that was supposed to produce the FH-77B. There is a longer barrel than the "source" (155 x 45), the declared range firing 38 km, in the presence of a power plant and an automatic loader for 3 (6?) shells of a “rapid-fire” batch (3 shells in 15 seconds) But at the same time, the weight is declared at only 7 tons.

        1. TermNachTer 2 February 2020 18: 50 New
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          Where did they get the figure - 18 tons?
          1. Lopatov 2 February 2020 19: 39 New
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            According to various sources, 18-19 tons.
            For example,


            Or this:


            Here she already has exactly a six-round "store" for first-priority shots. According to "Dhanush" it’s not clear what’s like three, but they write that maybe six will be. Plus, the barrel is longer, the engine is much more powerful (“self-propelled” speed of 20 km / h versus 5 km / h), biaxial, and the charging chamber is 2 liters more, 25 versus 23 This resulted in such a weight.
            1. TermNachTer 2 February 2020 20: 51 New
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              It is necessary to try very hard to increase the weight of the artillery system more than twice.
              1. Lopatov 2 February 2020 21: 51 New
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                Nothing complicated.
                They needed a high firing range and high rate of fire. But this is not only an increase in barrel length relative to the original from 39 to 52 calibers and an increase in the "displacement" of the charging chamber.
                This is also a greatly increased load. All this translates into weight gain.
                What pulls the need for a new "chassis" and a new, much more powerful power unit and hydraulic system. Which again leads to weight gain.
                So they caught up to 19 tons.

                And I think that is precisely because of this that we entered into a deal with the United States. That is, the purchase of the M777 and developments in ultra-light artillery. As a complement to long-range ATAGS. From which, despite the high weight, they do not want to refuse.

                Well, plus purely Indian troubles on the topic of towed artillery. Once she showed herself very well, and the military there inflamed the country with love for her.
                For reference, the Slovak "Eva", almost an analogue, weighs only three (four) tons more.
                But this is a cannon in a car transported by Hercules with a full automatic loader in 12 shells
                1. TermNachTer 3 February 2020 19: 20 New
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                  But initially, the Indians ordered the mattress “miracle gun” precisely because of its low weight, so that it could be transported by helicopter to the highlands. It turns out brought the situation to absurdity?
                  1. Lopatov 4 February 2020 11: 10 New
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                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    But initially, the Indians ordered the mattress “miracle gun” precisely because of its low weight, so that it could be transported by helicopter to the highlands.

                    They looked at the ATAGS, they were fine with everything except the weight.
                    Therefore, they decided to supplement this long-range gun with light. At first, the American M777, after her. Indeed, within the framework of this contract, they also gained groundwork on the 105-mm Hawkeye with an artillery weight of 900 kg and the 155-mm Brutus with an artillery weight of 1.7 tons

                    And so they have everything adequately enough.
                    Towed artillery will be replaced by ATAGS. Relocated by the Americans on the 155 mm M-46 and "Dhanush" in transition

                    The light 105, 122 and partly 130 towed ones will be replaced with something created on the basis of the developments received from the Americans, the American M77 (or its license) for the transition period.

                    Well and Yu.kor self-propelled guns under license

                    That is, in the future, only three guns should remain.

                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    It turns out brought the situation to absurdity?

                    They have been actively fighting there for a long time between "local producers" and those who receive a cash discount on purchases abroad. And there is no winner yet. This is exactly what creates absurd situations
  4. Strashila 1 February 2020 06: 18 New
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    Given the diversity of technology in the Indians constantly grenades of the wrong system.
  5. rotmistr60 1 February 2020 07: 00 New
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    ... most transactions for the purchase of weapons and military equipment in a rare booth
    Probably you will not find a better comparison. True, after the word "farce" could be added - with "songs and dances" (ranting in the media, disputes among the military and of course subsequent claims to the seller). Well and
    American means great!
    it all depends on who has the "rollback" more.
    1. Terenin 1 February 2020 11: 47 New
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      Quote: rotmistr60
      ... most transactions for the purchase of weapons and military equipment in a rare booth
      Probably you will not find a better comparison. True, after the word "farce" could be added - with "songs and dances" (ranting in the media, disputes among the military and of course subsequent claims to the seller). Well and
      American means great!
      it all depends on who has the "rollback" more.

      hi
      The buyer, dissatisfied with the quality of manure, could not pick up a quality epithet to characterize the goods winked
  6. asv363 1 February 2020 07: 20 New
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    However, the quality of howitzers delivered from the USA is surprising:

    And the other day, Indian sources reported problems with the quality of the advertised expensive "three hatchets", as this art system is often called with us. During Indian field trials of the first two M777A2 howitzers delivered at the army training ground in Pokrane one of the two recently purchased M777s reportedly collapsed and was torn apart, and only due to the fact that security measures were taken, no one was hurt.

    So far, 50% marriage.
  7. Nikolaevich I 1 February 2020 07: 23 New
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    Fir-trees! "Russians" are not happy ... "Jews" too ... now they have reached the "Americans" ... they got to the bottom! Well. where to go now to the poor "gunsmith-producer"? request
  8. Livonetc 1 February 2020 07: 39 New
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    A "normal" story for the current era.
    There is one of the largest American corporations, which is very famous for the production and supply of industrial automation systems.
    It occupies a large part of the market of "third" countries in its segment.
    Everyone in the industry knows its almost official slogan.
    "We can handle any kickbacks."
    1. sailor roman 1 February 2020 09: 01 New
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      Corruption is rampant in India.
      According to studies by the non-governmental international organization Transparency International, 50% of the Indian population has resorted to bribe when applying to state institutions for a year.
      Army Commander General V.K.Singh announced that he was offered a bribe of $ 2,7 million by a person closely associated with the defense industry. This message caused strong indignation in the Parliament, and Defense Minister A.K. Anthony promised to investigate. However, due to the lack of a written statement by the general, an official case was never instituted.

      Source: https://www.webeconomy.ru/index.php?page=cat&cat=mcat&mcat=154&type=news&p=2&newsid=3204
    2. Passing 1 February 2020 16: 21 New
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      And I was particularly impressed by the commercial acumen of these guys, when the Indians demanded that 30% of the price be returned to their economy, they said no problem, pay us 50% more, 30% of them will be returned to you. Those. no real investments, the Indians pay them for themselves, and even overpay 20% for the goods themselves! All right, the transfer of high technologies would be negotiated, because no, just invest, you can, for example, buy shares in banana producers, for Indian money. Ingenious!
      1. Vlad.by 2 February 2020 00: 02 New
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        This needs to be taught to our managers. T-90 should cost 15 million bucks. And 3 can then be returned to the "economy"
  9. Thrifty 1 February 2020 08: 01 New
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    Your pocket is somehow more important than some kind of security of the purchased weapons. The more it falls in your pocket, the higher the chance to buy a banal bullshit, but in a beautiful wrapper.
  10. sergo1914 1 February 2020 08: 16 New
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    Before shooting, you must definitely sing and dance. Then everything will be fine.
  11. Zaurbek 1 February 2020 09: 21 New
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    And the Chinese look at such a booth and laugh.
  12. Fitter65 1 February 2020 09: 31 New
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    expensive "three hatchets", as we often call this artillery system.
    Well, why so holy? After all, “THREE AX” was an amazing port in the 70-80s ... drinks
    1. Ros 56 1 February 2020 09: 43 New
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      A small clarification, it is now written "Three Axes", that's what it is called, and before it was "Three Sevens", and three axes it was a nickname. By the way, I took the current one as a test, the muck is rare, it can’t even compare with the past. drinks
      1. cniza 1 February 2020 11: 51 New
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        Yes, all technologies are lost ...
      2. Fitter65 1 February 2020 12: 05 New
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        Quote: Ros 56
        it’s now written “Three Axes,” that’s exactly what it is called, and before it was “Three Sevens,” and three axes it was a nickname. By the way, I took the current one as a test, the muck is rare, it can’t even compare with the past.

        So I’m talking about the popular name of the noble drink port “777”. And the current products are “Three Axes”, that “777” is a rare muck, in comparison with them, even fruit-beneficial becomes a noble drink. good drinks
      3. Lekz 1 February 2020 13: 52 New
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        I drank 777 as a student in Leningrad under a general's hire.
    2. TermNachTer 1 February 2020 11: 59 New
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      Yeah, portvech was very popular in certain circles. With the current muck can not be compared.
    3. Narak-zempo 1 February 2020 15: 39 New
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      And we poisoned them with cockroaches in a hostel in 2009-2010. CSC, the alcohol evaporated, but the dye remained.
      1. Ros 56 1 February 2020 17: 28 New
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        Lie, know the measure, it wasn’t anymore.
        1. Narak-zempo 1 February 2020 19: 33 New
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          Quote: Ros 56
          Lie, know the measure, it wasn’t anymore.

          It was. And in different ways. Set traps - lids with port. And fumigation, when they took 2 liters for four, and then went to bed, tightly closing the window and door.
          1. Ros 56 1 February 2020 20: 59 New
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            I wanted to say that port, Soviet, and the muck released, I do not argue. By the way, it is a good port, and now they only produce it; it costs more than one and a half to two times more than vodka.
            1. Narak-zempo 1 February 2020 21: 03 New
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              Quote: Ros 56
              only it costs more than vodka one and a half - two times

              And then what good is it if he does not give an opportunity to snuggle up on a budget?
              1. Fitter65 2 February 2020 01: 50 New
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                Quote: Narak-zempo
                And then what good is it if he does not give the opportunity to snuggle up budget

                Here, colleagues agree, that the topic of the "777" portoshchok is much more worrying for a simple Russian than the problems of Indians with their howitzers laughing Everyone has a good rest. drinks good
    4. Rustic i ...... 1 February 2020 21: 09 New
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      For someone amazing, and for some, a blubber. The howitzers are really so-so ....., they don't exactly shoot with chopped nails - not everyone gets it.
  13. Ros 56 1 February 2020 09: 39 New
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    What are you, did you dance or forget the dance? That Russian weapon of the wrong system, now amerovskoye, but the fact that the FEZ, do not create anything and wipe everyone’s nose.
    1. cniza 1 February 2020 11: 50 New
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      This is always the case with them - they either dance or are unhappy ...
  14. Sergey79 1 February 2020 10: 12 New
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    If, according to all US charters, aviation is the main means of enemy fire, then you should not expect anything good from artillery ...
  15. Nick Russ 1 February 2020 10: 15 New
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    ,, But it’s unlikely - it’s painfully good "kickbacks" offered by uncles from across the ocean. ,,

    Our rollback system is also well developed. So this is most likely not the case, but the well-known obsession of the Americans.
    1. V.I.P. 1 February 2020 10: 37 New
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      I wonder what Singapore howitzer they refused (in the article they write she was a favorite) and what her performance characteristics are.
      1. Octopus 1 February 2020 11: 59 New
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        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLWH_Pegasus
        1. V.I.P. 1 February 2020 16: 24 New
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          Thank you .... Singapore weighs 5,3 tons, firing range of a projectile M107-19 km, ERFB-30 km. American howitzer -4,2 tons, range M107-24 km. ERFB-30 km. .American lighter 1,1t and a simple projectile shoots 5 km further. But much more expensive ... In theory, the Indians have a strange choice.
  16. cniza 1 February 2020 11: 49 New
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    India bought howitzers from the USA, but dissatisfied with quality


    And when India was pleased ...
  17. kpd
    kpd 1 February 2020 12: 37 New
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    Harmful they are Hindus. And why? But because they are disdain for beef. :)
    1. Narak-zempo 1 February 2020 15: 43 New
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      Yes Yes. I recall the 1853 Enfield Pattern and beef-pork stew cartridges.
  18. Vlad5307 1 February 2020 12: 57 New
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    Quote: Nick Russ
    ,, But it’s unlikely - it’s painfully good "kickbacks" offered by uncles from across the ocean. ,,

    Our rollback system is also well developed. So this is most likely not the case, but the well-known obsession of the Americans.

    Not in the obsession of the Americans, but in their system of educating corrupt people in the places they need on the planet, supporting greed and greed in people. And this is the basis of their power in the world. hi
  19. bleksia1477 1 February 2020 13: 46 New
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    Hindus are always not happy with something .... either the Russian planes are bad for them, the Amer guns do not shoot like that ... but their hands are growing out of .... they have been designing their fighter for 40 years and have just assembled ..
  20. Cowbra 1 February 2020 13: 59 New
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    The dog knows him. As far as I remember. one of the main advantages of the three axes is the ability to transfer by helicopter or tiltrotor, because everything else is sacrificed. Mattresses need this, but what for the Indians - I don’t quite understand ...
    1. Sergey Sfiedu 1 February 2020 19: 39 New
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      Transfer to the Himalayas, in case of another mess with packs or Chinese. And then they bothered our M-46 in parts to be transported by helicopters and already assemble on the spot.
      1. Vlad.by 2 February 2020 00: 07 New
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        So the best D-30 for this is still no. There was no fig and twitch.
        1. Sergey Sfiedu 2 February 2020 02: 51 New
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          Compare the range and power of the D-30 and M-46 shell. The Indians have a light 105mm howitzer, but they need something like the M-46, but with a mass like the D-30.
          1. Vlad.by 3 February 2020 11: 03 New
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            Shoot in the mountains for a long range, especially with Indian hands ...
            1. Sergey Sfiedu 4 February 2020 19: 30 New
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              Just the same, the Indian army has real combat experience in the use of long-range artillery in highland conditions during the endless war in the Himalayas. For example, in 1984, they succeeded in secretly deploying large army forces, including disassembled M-46 guns, and firing strategic Karokorum highway from China on helicopters to the Siachen Glacier, practically behind the lines of Pakistanis, behind helicopters. Packs regularly tried, until 2002, to knock them out, many soldiers on both sides froze or froze to death, many crashed, falling into the abyss, but things are still there. And now a war can erupt at any moment, why the Indians are eager to have a modern light long-range howitzer.
  21. Lamata 1 February 2020 17: 52 New
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    Such dirt on the streets as in India never seen! They say that in Pakistan it’s even cleaner.
  22. Petrol cutter 1 February 2020 18: 21 New
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    India, God forgive me, always something not happy.
    Just like our military representatives. Don't be remembered by night ...
  23. Avior 2 February 2020 00: 14 New
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    The 155-mm 52-caliber towed ATAGS system weighing as many as 18 (!!!) tons, that is, in general, together with the tractor, this system will weigh almost like a tracked self-propelled guns and heavier than many wheeled self-propelled guns, without the advantages of self-propelled guns. For comparison: the domestic 152-mm howitzer 2A65 Msta-B, one of the main heroines of the Russian military participation in the war in Syria, weighs 7,1 tons, and the American M198 - 7,3 tons.

    For a start, not 18 tons, but 12 tons
    https://topwar.ru/107965-v-indii-razrabotana-novaya-gaubica.html
    And, comparing a 39-gauge howitzer with a 52-howitzer, you need to understand that in one case, the firing range is 22-28 km, even a projectile with a gas generator, in another 40 km.
  24. Gosha Smirnov 2 February 2020 02: 21 New
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    Gypsies are gypsies. But the country itself is wonderful. Much more interesting than the Russian Federation.
  25. Andvigor 2 February 2020 07: 12 New
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    "Military-technical cooperation (MTC) with India has always been a complex and controversial thing. Indian generals and politicians are turning most arms and military equipment deals into a rare booth."
    Yeah, sell the horse to the gypsies!
  26. Pavel57 2 February 2020 16: 52 New
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    Will conclusions be drawn?
    The question is rhetorical.
  27. glasha3032 2 February 2020 20: 37 New
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    And then our Msta-Bs on the Ukrainian front were not torn ...
    1. Lopatov 2 February 2020 21: 53 New
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      Quote: glasha3032
      And then our "Msta-B"

      They are not "ours," they are Soviet.
      Much older and much, much cheaper than the world's most expensive towed howitzer M777
  28. About 2 3 February 2020 01: 12 New
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    So the Indians need it!
  29. shinobi 4 February 2020 10: 57 New
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    East is a delicate matter.
  30. silver_roman 5 February 2020 11: 53 New
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    how do these Indians make me laugh. a nation that does not know how to fight, does not know how to make its own weapons, but at the same time is almost always not happy with the quality of the weapons it purchases.