Military Review

Cuirassiers in museums

170

It seems to be knights, right? But no: the guys in these armor did not even stand next to the knights. Typical XNUMXth century cuirassiers armor, and the right one got very cool on the helmet ...


"... finally the riders got tired ..."
First Book of Maccabees 10: 81


Military affairs at the turn of the eras. We continue our story about the warriors of the era of transition from feudal to market relations, “capitalist”, because, as it turned out, this era is almost as interesting as the era of classical knights. Time accelerated its run, “shrunk”, changes began to happen faster, it became easier to track them. This is the first circumstance. The second is obviously connected with the first: the technology has improved, the productivity of the enterprises producing weapons has also increased, since the mining industry has developed, which means that there is more metal. And more metal - more armor and at a lower price, that is, it has now become possible to dress a lot of people in them, and not two or three, the richest, as it was before.


Since in 1986 I became acquainted with the book of Liliana and Fred Funktsen “Encyclopedia of weapons and military costume. The Renaissance Age ”, published by the French publishers of Casterman, and I saw her illustrations, well, let's say this one with horse armor of the XNUMXth century, I always wanted to know on the basis of what they drew them

True, the solution of some problems, as always, gave rise to others. So, Henry VIII, replenishing his guard with a detachment of nobles of 50 people in full knightly armament, riding on “armored” horses, could not afford to increase its number due to ... lack of appropriate horses. That is, they had armor (and money for them!). But there were no horses. Well, it just wasn’t. By the way, these riders also represented something like an “ordonance company”, because each of them was also accompanied by other riders: a horse archer, a light-armed rider with a light spear, and also a servant who took care of all three.


And here they are, it turns out where everything is in the museum of the Walrus castle in Lausanne. Come and draw ...


Did you notice the beautiful armor on the far right in the photograph from the museum in Walrus Castle? But what kind of armor is when done, where? The second of the same model is in the arsenal in the city of Graz, and another in the Metropolitan Museum of New York. Therefore, we know for sure that these are cuirassier armor from Innsbruck 1560. Weight 16,92 kg. Helmet weight 2466,4 g


It is known that the gunsmiths from Nuremberg were famous for their ability to produce large quantities of plate armor relatively quickly. In the second half of the 1600th century, they specialized in the manufacture of high-quality infantry armor with a simple but effective decoration in the form of bright stripes contrasting with painted black surfaces. This design was typical of many armor of that time and consisted of an open helmet (bourguignot) and plates covering only the shoulders, trunk and legs from the hips to the knees. Blackened surfaces seemed to make this armor less susceptible to rust, so it barely required maintenance. Circa XNUMX (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

This detachment participated in the famous Battle of Gunegayt (the battle was told about this battle) in 1513, but in 1539 it was completely reorganized as being too expensive. In order to somehow raise the combat readiness of the army, the king even passed a law, according to which every Englishman, having an income of 100 pounds a year, must also have a horse suitable for army service. Not only that, it was ordered that every man whose wife wears a velvet skirt or silk lower skirt, outside of his income (that is, in excess of these same 100 pounds!) Would necessarily also contain a war horse. Like, there is money for marriage from a woman, so please think about the Motherland.


Here we can see these armor too. One helmet is open - bourguignot. But there is a spear hook. So it’s not cuirassier armor, and they belong to equestrian spearmen


Here they are, how handsome. In general, in the museum of the Morges castle, as in any other western museum - we note this, we are more often faced with cuirassier armor than with any other. Here, for example, cuirassier armor with helmets such as "Savoy bourguignot" or Savoyard. It is easy to distinguish from all the others ...


And to the left, far away - this is the exclusive Maximilian armor. All the same Walrus Castle

By the way, we note that not all people who visit museums and admire the knightly armor displayed there are aware that they are not looking at the knightly armor! It does not occur to them that very few genuine knightly armor has survived. And then this is the armor dating back to the middle of the XNUMXth century, and there are practically no earlier ones. What is exhibited in museums is precisely the armor of the transitional period: tournament, ceremonial, and military armor, but again, it is either the armor of ordinary armored mercenaries who have nothing to do with knights, or the armor of “knights” (feudal lords ), who served with these mercenaries ... commanders. That is, very often it is either serial armor of mass production, or more rare, but also quite common commander’s armor made to order. It is clear that there were also armor of kings and courtiers. But the bulk is relatively armored mercenaries! And they ended up in museums precisely because there were a lot of them.


And here is one of the cuirassier armor dating from 1600-16010. (Military Museum of the Walrus Castle, Lausanne)

Recall, for example, the arsenal in the Austrian city of Graz. There, armor made to order and impressive in its finishes, was cut short once or twice, but then thousands (!) Of armor of ordinary horsemen and foot soldiers! By the way, the scale of production of such armor is evidenced by the example cited by English historians D. Edge and D. Paddock, who report that in 1512 the same indefatigable Henry VIII bought only 2000 sets of lightweight armor in Florence (16 shillings per set), and a year later another 5000 in Milan. In 1539, 1200 armor was bought in Colony and 2700 in Antwerp, although the latter were of poor quality and were used only in infantry.


Another illustration of the Functions

And here is almost completely an analogue of the cuirassier armor depicted on it from Armory the chambers of Dresden. They were made by the gunsmith Christian Müller from Dresden, circa 1640. Material - blackened iron, brass rivet heads, leather straps, velvet lining. Height 175 cm, weight 23,07 kg. It is known about the armor that they were bought by the Saxon Elector Johann Georg II from the gunsmith Christian Müller, and he made an order for 50 of these armors, that is, for a whole detachment. This is cuirassier armor, but of improved quality, which could be worn by generals and princes. True, whether Elector Johann George II himself wore it, alas, is not known. The decor of this relatively simple job consists of brass rivet heads.

However, such purchases for the treasury still proved costly. And in 1558 it was decided that the army itself should be maintained by the population. Now every Briton with an annual income of £ 1000 or more was obliged to buy six horses for riders in three-quarters of armor, ten horses for light cavalry, and complete with harness and armor. For the infantry, it was necessary to buy 40 cuirasses with legguards and helmets, that is, equipment for pikemen and arquebusiers, 40 lightweight German-style armor (?), 40 spades, 30 bows with a bunch of 24 arrows, 30 light helmets, 20 copies of the bill ”(“ Bullish tongue ”), 20 arquebuses and 20 morions - that is, an entire arsenal. Well, those who had less income, say 5 or 10 pounds, still had to fork out. They were required to buy one halberd or one bill, one bow with arrows, one light armor and helmet. Naturally, the purchases of all these weapons acquired a mass character, which means that its production also became mass. In addition, it was also standardized, although wealthy people still preferred to order armor.


Also the work of Funktsov. Lance-spearmen against horse arquebusiers and cuirassier pistols. Three riders are dressed in "lackey camisoles", that is, they belong to 1570-1580.

However, the price of custom armor was still very high. For example, in 1612, Henry, Prince of Wales, ordered himself cuirassier armor and paid 340 pounds for them. By the way, a pair of cuirassier pistols with wheel locks at that time in England cost 2 pounds 16 shillings.

Cuirassiers in museums
And one more “set” of latniks from the Walrus castle museum. There, it seems, they were also gathered a lot. Although the arsenal in Graz in Austria has not yet surpassed any of the museums!


There, by the way, there are also cuirassier armor with a XNUMXth-century savoyard, but only they don’t have a scary mask ... (Arsenal of Graz)

During the discussion of one of the materials on cuirassiers on the pages of the VO, the question arose of how long the spear was used by the plate riders of the transition period. And whether it was used along with the gun. Or the gunners were separate, and the spearmen separately. To begin with, France was in front of the whole of Europe in the issue of refusing to use a spear. Here in 1604, the use of the spear was officially prohibited by decree of King Henry IV. But in other countries it was used before this time, and after.


Saddle from the Dresden Armory, dated 1715. Material: leather, wood, horsehair, details from iron and brass - gilded. Fabric - velvet, raspberry silk, embossed brocade. Fringe made of golden threads. Dimensions: length 60 cm, width 68 cm, height 55 cm. The saddle was a gift from King Louis XIV to Polish King Augustus the Strong. A total of six such saddles were made, embroidered with gold and silver, which he sent to Dresden in 1715. The saddles were presented with pistols by the best Parisian gunsmiths

However, in the plate cavalry they were actively used in the XNUMXth century. In fact, the previously existing Ordonance companies survived in this century, but their composition and armament changed in response to the challenges of the time.


Gilded armor, circa 1650. Weight 16.37 kg. (Dresden Armory). Although it looks like a cuirassier, it is not a combat armor, but a tournament armor, moreover for a foot tournament with a barrier. Dresden's foot tournaments flourished at the end of the XNUMXth century and were mainly held in the courtyard of the Elector's castle. They celebrated various celebrations such as birthdays, christenings, family gatherings, or solemn visits by princely guests.

It is known that foot tournaments were held in 1606, 1613, 1614, 1615, 1622, 1630, 1650, 1652, 1662, 1667 and 1679. The helmets impress with their compact, closed form, which is explained by the nature of the tournament, in which the fighters had to withstand blows mainly on the head. They have been listed on inventory since 1688 with all accessories, including helmets and tournament swords. But despite the numerous information about these foot tournaments, the only thing that was known about these four armors was that they were acquired on behalf of the then Elector Prince Johann George II. In 1650, they entered the weapons warehouse for storage. There are still no references to the manufacturer of these unusual products.

So, in 1522, Charles V approved the composition of horse gendarmes in the amount of eight units, 50 copies each. In 1545, their number increased to 19, but then, in the 1547th, it again decreased to 15. True, this was the size of peacetime. During the war, the number of such units increased rapidly, which is why they were called "growing". The spear of the Ordonance company in 1545 included one gendarme on a horse in horse armor, a squire with the same spear as the gendarme, but in a cuirass riveted from stripes, a page in a Morion helmet and a light spear-guinea, then one latin man in a cuirass and again with a knightly spear, but already without a plate, and three spearmen in burginot helmets, chain-necked drape and pistols in holsters at the saddle.


Cuirassiers and pikemen of the Thirty Years War at the Army Museum in Paris

In 1572, the riders of these ordonance companies received even more uniform weapons: a Morion helmet or a cabasset (the commanders still wore arme), full plate armor, cuirass from the plates on the chest and on the back, on top of which they also wore “spaced armor” additional bulletproof bib, as well as lamellar leg gaiters to the knees. On top of the armor, it became fashionable to wear the so-called “footman's jacket” with sleeves tied to the back. Horse lats have already been abandoned. But in addition to the spear, these riders already had two pistols in holsters. The spears themselves became much easier, so the spear hook on the cuirasses of this time was no longer attached.


And this is how armor in museums today is cleaned of rust. Therefore, they very often look like new ...


References
1. Norman, AVB, Pottinger, D. Warrior to soldier 449-1660. A brief introduction to the history of British warfare. UK L .: Weidenfild and Nicolson Limited, 1966.
2. Richardson, T. The Armor and Arms of Henry VIII. UK, Leeds. Royal Armouries Museum. The Trusteers of Armouries, 2002.
3. The Cavalry // Edited by J. Lawford // Indianopolis, New York: The Bobbs Merril Company, 1976.
4. Young, P. The English Civil War // Edited by J. Lawford // Indianopolis, New York: The Bobbs Merril Company, 1976.
5. Williams, A., De Reuk, A. The Royal Armory at Greenwich 1515-1649: a history of its technology. UK, Leeds. Royal Armouries Pub., 1995.


To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Friends and Enemies of Imperial Cuirassiers
Polish shells, Austrian hussars and Turkish fives
Enemies of the Cuirassiers
With whom the latniks of the emperor Maximilian fought?
“A small discovery in the butt of an arquebus ...”
Horsemen of the Eighty Years War
Horses and saddles of the XVI-XVII centuries
“By people and by horses, not by aer”
Ordonance companies
“It's a miracle if someone is killed with a spear”
170 comments
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  1. tlauicol
    tlauicol 8 February 2020 05: 34 New
    14
    dear pleasure this war!
    but every armor is a work of art! very nice !
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 8 February 2020 08: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Tlauicol
      but every armor is a work of art! very nice !

      Struck by intricate armor floral ornament from Innsbruck.

      As if, um, female .... recourse
  2. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2020 06: 00 New
    11
    Luxury Article! As a collector - I’ll add ... about Weapons, please open the topic that opposed this armor. Regards, Alexey hi
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 8 February 2020 06: 22 New
      +2
      Starting with bronze swords and beyond.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 08: 09 New
        11
        About the armor and weapons of “bronze” Vyacheslav Olegovich had a series of articles about three years ago! Look do not regret it!
        Yours!
      2. kalibr
        8 February 2020 08: 11 New
        12
        Dear Igor! There were articles about the weapons of their bronze here. Type in the search engine "Weapons of the Bronze Age" Military Review Shpakovsky and you will receive several articles. There will be cross-references below them. You will understand them.
    2. kalibr
      8 February 2020 08: 02 New
      13
      Dear Alexey! Do not even doubt that such materials will be. Everything is ready for them. It remains only to write.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 9 February 2020 04: 57 New
        +6
        Vyacheslav Olegovich hi Super series of articles “Knights at the table” require continuation! You promised! Regards, Alexey.
        1. kalibr
          9 February 2020 07: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: Hunter 2
          Vyacheslav Olegovich Super series of articles “Knights at the table” require continuation! You promised! Regards, Alexey.

          I agree! It will be necessary to return. Today I finished a series of articles about KIRASIRS (this material will come out!). All of it is over and you can think about something else ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 9 February 2020 15: 12 New
            +4
            Mayans, Incas, conquistadors?
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 9 February 2020 17: 52 New
              +5
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Mayans, Incas, conquistadors?

              Albert hi Do not confuse the author with thoughts am We demand about Weapons and about Grub laughing ... if not in the subject - read Knights at the Table
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 9 February 2020 17: 55 New
                +5
                Shalom!
                And I want about the weapons and armor of the Incas and Mayans, and if the author kindly agrees, about the conquistadors who fought with them, too))
                Knights at the table - read! good
                1. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 9 February 2020 18: 04 New
                  +6
                  Here you are a bore, Albert! am Do you want fables? What weapons do the poor Indians have? Flint knives and blades made of volcanic glass? I - I will write an article for you! Get away from Vyacheslav Olegovich! We demand about the grub! Especially about dry rations .... of that time!
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 9 February 2020 18: 22 New
                    +5
                    Do the poor Indians? laughing Well write
                    1. Hunter 2
                      Hunter 2 9 February 2020 18: 27 New
                      +5
                      Here you nevermind ... I will send you a book as my seven-year-old Son finishes reading it crying
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 9 February 2020 18: 45 New
                        +6
                        Crossed))
                        With pictures, hope?
                      2. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 9 February 2020 18: 51 New
                        +6
                        It’s clear that with pictures ... you - Seven Years .... you’ll push another Horseradish (plant of the cabbage family)! Still send - Coloring! tongue Train - Mossadovets! laughing design - fine motor skills yes
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 9 February 2020 19: 18 New
                        +6
                        Paint the Strategic Missile Forces map? Where to send you 30 Serebryanikov? To your account in Montenegro? wink
                      4. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 9 February 2020 19: 25 New
                        +6
                        laughing I will inform you of the account number in PM!
                        Radish - You can’t buy me for 30 pieces of silver ... at least 100 repeat
                        As a numismatist - I wish 5 marks of 1927 to Tübingen! Mossad pull ???
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 9 February 2020 19: 31 New
                        +6
                        100 Serebryanikov - but where does poor Mossad get such money laughing
                      6. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 9 February 2020 19: 47 New
                        +6
                        Here it is - The Miserable Nation! Coloring book - don't get it tongue
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 9 February 2020 19: 49 New
                        +6
                        45.
                        Serebryanikov soldier
                        ?? fellow
                      8. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 9 February 2020 19: 59 New
                        +5
                        5 marks 1927 Tübingen? what
                        90 - Minimum! yes
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 9 February 2020 20: 05 New
                        +5
                        65 - agreed drinks
                        And also a terrible secret ...
                      10. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 9 February 2020 20: 09 New
                        +5
                        Well, then 65 ... but Five Goethe marks 1932 (one coin 500 thousand ₽) drinks
                        What a terrible secret Do you need? recourse
                      11. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 9 February 2020 20: 43 New
                        +3
                        On hands - coloring - Zelensky and Groisman write a letter to Erdogan on the air defense map in Bushehr))
                        A terrible secret - what Rusnano does
                        PS - one Serebryanik ~ approximately 500 000 USD today wink
                      12. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 10 February 2020 03: 47 New
                        +5
                        belay Who are you rubbing it in? The maximum cost of the state of 35 thousand rubles! But ... ready to sell the Mossad - four for $ 500 thousand wink
                        With a terrible secret ... it seems - a flight crying crying
                      13. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 10 February 2020 03: 53 New
                        +4
                        Heh. I'm talking about the purchasing power of Serebryanik - regarding the plot of land in Jerusalem bought by Judas with this money and its current value)).
                        In fact - it was a standard tetradrachma, how much this costs today for numismatists - I do not know. They called it Serebryanik in order to pull it under the biblical prophecy about the Messiah, so the value of this currency can only be calculated by the value of the zemstvo supposedly purchased by Judas, not far from the Temple Mount.
  • vomag
    vomag 8 February 2020 06: 18 New
    -8
    The article is good ... but all the armor is remake ... I think that the weapons in museums are the same ..
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 08: 07 New
      18
      Quote: vomag
      The article is good ... but all the armor is remake ... I think that the weapons in museums are the same ..

      Yeah, 16-17 centuries!
      Despite the fact that we live in - 21 !!!
      laughing
    2. kalibr
      8 February 2020 08: 08 New
      20
      Quote: vomag
      but all the armor is a remake ... I think

      All? Even those for which there are documents, who, when and where made them? Are you reading my articles? In each, it is given by whom this or that armor was made. For many there are references in the inventory books of kings, the years are indicated that coincide with the brands of the masters and the years on the armor. And if they do not exist, but ... there are a lot of them, in Graz, for example, there are more than 3000. Who would have dared to make such a "remake"? I understand one or two armor to forge to decorate their museum. But 3000 mediocre lats, with traces of wear, notches and dents ... These are millions thrown into the wind! Nobody would do this. So you don't have to "think", you just need to carefully read my articles. And in them - captions under the drawings.
    3. Hantengri
      Hantengri 8 February 2020 09: 37 New
      12
      Quote: vomag
      but all the armor is a remake ... I think that the weapons in museums are the same ..

      How did you determine this? What are the signs? Please share the methodology for determining the age of weapons and armor from photographs. And then, after all, these historians (there are no censored words) are striving to put into the gullible commoner some thread of bullshit, or hide something! am
      1. vomag
        vomag 8 February 2020 11: 49 New
        -10
        Quote: HanTengri
        What are the signs? Please share the technique

        Please see Kungurov and many others who are in this topic. 100% remake in all museums! Well, except for probably private collections ..
        1. kalibr
          8 February 2020 13: 02 New
          15
          Quote: vomag
          100% remake in all museums!

          Do they also forge documents? For example, no king or emperor had to take measurements when ordering armor. As well as driving yourself! They took his clothes, they made them ... then they took them to try them on, then to finish them. This was all accompanied by correspondence, writing out money, describing who did what ... Some armor was not paid for for 10 years and couriers galloped from one country to another with letters ... Like, "Your Majesty owed a debt ... And oats are now why?" All this was reflected in the archives that have survived ... Is this all the same, correspondence? Price tags, descriptions of Dürer, And Helschmid, their drawings ... All fake? At least you and your Kungurov can imagine the volume of such work, and most importantly, its cost and the level of expertise that would easily find out.
          1. vomag
            vomag 8 February 2020 19: 40 New
            -9
            Quote: kalibr
            Some armor was not paid for 10 years.

            You know that you are of course a smart adult .. but how do you manage to believe in this game? Yes, even children don’t believe hhahaha, I just see the king he has thousands of servants personal guard army mercenaries and everyone has to pay for everything you have to pay, and so on and here the rogue for armor there is nothing to pay ...
            1. kalibr
              8 February 2020 20: 06 New
              +8
              I believe the documents, where it is written how when and for how much one or another armor was paid, how long it was made and how it was paid. All this is there. Including in the exposition of the Arsenal in Graz, in the Vienna Armory and in Ambras Castle, in the Arsenal of the Doges of Venice, and in the Royal Arsenal in Leeds. The correspondence of Emperor Maximilian the First with his gunsmiths has been preserved, and records of the workshop of Henry 8 in Greenwich have been preserved. All this is also found in the relevant literature. It is not my fault that your Kungurov does not know English and has not read all this. It is available for you to get acquainted with the work of Dürer, considered in detail. So he also drew sketches for the design of armor and sold them to gunsmiths. There is a monograph in the series ZhZL "Durer" - there is also about this.
        2. kalibr
          8 February 2020 13: 25 New
          20
          Alexei Kungurov is a major who last year retired after seniority, who now lives in a small town in the Chelyabinsk region.
          After school, which I graduated in Nizhny Tagil, there was a service in the Army, then a tank school in Chelyabinsk and 25 years of service in the Armed Forces. In 1995, he was on a business trip to Chechnya, where he was awarded the Order of Courage for participating in the operation. He studied in absentia at the South Ural State University with a degree in Automotive Engineering (he never received a diploma, the service interfered). He began to get involved in history several years ago, working closely with supporters of “alternative” historical versions, and, thanks to the Internet, has become more popular than many of them.
          The man has not been in any well-known museum of weapons. I didn't hold on to anything with my hands. He raves about a nuclear war 200 years ago and shows nuclear bomb craters in the fields. And you tell me that he understands something? This, you know, is not even funny. And to believe such "historians" is like not respecting yourself.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 8 February 2020 23: 55 New
            +7
            Man wasn’t in any famous weapons museum. Hands did not hold on to anything. Raves about a nuclear war that was 200 years ago and shows funnels from nuclear bombs in the fields.

            Great theme for haplogroups and superentos! good Well, we already know that there was no Mongolian .... In general, we are waiting for "Uncle Remus's fairy tales" from one of the authors of the site .... negative if he writes, we’ll get 1000+ comments from the patriots. Guys (and respected administration!), I'm serious! However, you all know me, and you shouldn’t count for the near. We go to museums, sometimes we write articles .... request
        3. kalibr
          8 February 2020 13: 27 New
          13
          Quote: vomag
          Well, except probably private collections ..

          You do not know, of course, how do you know this, but just many "private traders" donated their collections to the most famous museums! So it is in museums that private collections are exhibited. You just do not know all this, and they work for such Kungurovs.
        4. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 8 February 2020 14: 24 New
          17
          I looked at Kungurov, spent half an hour on a day off. Actually, it was interesting not so much what he broadcasts there, but how exactly he justifies it.
          I am somewhat disappointed, although in fact, probably, I could already get used to it.
          Nothing new. Continuous extrapolations with modernity in the absence of the slightest idea of ​​the era that a person is talking about. Complete ignorance of the material culture and technologies of the Middle Ages, and, most importantly, a firm conviction that it is not necessary to know this. A lot of unfounded statements, presented as axioms (absolutely incorrect and easily refuted), on the basis of which conclusions are drawn, proceeding solely from "common sense", as it seems to Kungurov, but in fact, from his own experience, in the area about which he is talking , very poor and superficial.
          In general, such a classic folkhistoric is quite a low base. I think that he could manage to be a relatively good person as the head of security at a business center, but in order to engage in research in the humanities, several other qualities are needed. It is impossible to achieve anything serious in this area solely with conviction, perseverance and energy, but, unfortunately, apart from these qualities, Kungurov did not show me anything, not even intelligence above the usual average level.
          So, again, unfortunately, alas. request
          1. kalibr
            8 February 2020 15: 47 New
            11
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Kungurov did not show me anything, even intelligence above the usual average level.

            But, dear Mikhail, this is interesting as a phenomenon. And, incidentally, this also became another consequence of the collapse of the USSR. We were lied to, we believed, then it turned out, but where is the evidence that everything else is not a lie? What to cling to? And for your "common sense", there is nothing more. But what about knowledge? And we also taught, taught, but everything turned out to be different. This means that knowledge is not needed ... It's simple!
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 8 February 2020 17: 04 New
              10
              You know, Vyacheslav Olegovich, here I agree with you. The collapse of some ideals raises doubts about the truth of the rest, and ideological opponents could not help but take advantage of it, actively imposing on us new, equally controversial, and often more controversial ideals.
              To impose another stupidity, then to refute, to impose a new one, to refute it too - what could be more pleasant and useful?
              People do not know whom to believe, therefore at the same time they do not believe anyone and are ready to believe anyone.
              1. kalibr
                8 February 2020 18: 01 New
                +9
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                People do not know whom to believe, therefore at the same time they do not believe anyone and are ready to believe anyone.

                You said it well!
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 8 February 2020 23: 59 New
                  +7
                  You said it well!

                  Vyacheslav Olegovich, Mikhail could not have said otherwise. good
          2. vomag
            vomag 8 February 2020 19: 23 New
            -7
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            I looked at Kungurov, spent half an hour on a day off

            I am very sorry that you looked at the book and saw something completely different there ...
            1. kalibr
              8 February 2020 20: 00 New
              +9
              And there, besides the figs, there is nothing. A man without education, without knowledge, not a single armor in any of the museums in the world did not see. He sits and raves. By the way, where are the funnels from nuclear explosions? An air blast is much more efficient! Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are an example of this. It was someone who needed the earth to make a hole.
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 8 February 2020 22: 29 New
              +8
              Quote: vomag
              I am very sorry that you looked at the book and saw something completely different there ...

              Thank you for Kungurov. Looked at it: "Kungurov vs. Newton." ... I haven't laughed like that for a long time! A man in physics does not drag, from the word "absolutely", but he has an opinion! laughing This figure, it seems, decided to sprinkle with the juice of his uneducated brain all areas of knowledge about the existence of which he had been told in high school! laughing
              By the way, about the impossibility of producing spherical, spherical, etc. headless, without the press and mold, too, very delivered! lol Because a helmet from a sheet of metal, in the presence of a hammer, head and hands attached to the right place, is made something like this: https://fishki.net/2913556-rimskij-shlem.html
          3. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 8 February 2020 23: 58 New
            +8
            I looked at Kungurov, spent half an hour on a day off. Actually, it was interesting not so much what he broadcasts there, but how exactly he justifies it.

            Michael, I didn’t watch it, and I’m not going to delete it. The question is that if it does not justify, then this is the topic of research by the Good Doctor, not historians. hi
  • Lamata
    Lamata 8 February 2020 08: 10 New
    +7
    Thanks to Mr. Shpakovsky for the cycle !! In the photo - cuirassiers and pioneers of the 30 year war, a rider in a metal hat? But how did she protect, only from a blow from above?
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 10: 05 New
      +8
      Quote: Lamata
      But how did she protect, only from a blow from above?

      Good question! But I don’t know the answer. But since there was such a hat, then ... they wore it!
      1. Lamata
        Lamata 8 February 2020 12: 57 New
        +5
        Logically, it was someone who became forged her. only, still, the fields can play a role in a chopping blow from above or from the side, the blade of the blade will slip and will not cut through the shoulder. And the hat is not so hot.
        1. kalibr
          8 February 2020 13: 34 New
          +8
          Most likely it is so, Igor. And I can also say that she was called "Cavalier" and was a kind of branded headdress of English "Cavaliers" in 1642-1649.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 8 February 2020 15: 26 New
            12
            The "cavalier hat" is a wide-brimmed hat with a plume of ostrich feathers, popular in the XNUMXth century. Received its name from supporters of King Charles I during the English Civil War, known as "cavaliers" and wore extravagant clothes.

            Painting by Dutch artist Frans Hals "Group portrait of officers of the Harlem rifle company", which shows Dutch officers in cavalry hats.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 8 February 2020 15: 38 New
              16
              British gunsmiths responded to the "fashion trends" and began to produce steel helmets in the form of "cavalry hat", which made it possible to combine business with pleasure.

              This "knight's hat" helmet is from the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. England. 1630-50 years.
              Material - steel, gold. Weight is 1550 grams.
          2. Lamata
            Lamata 8 February 2020 15: 55 New
            +5
            Thanks for the info.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 February 2020 08: 22 New
    +9
    The first thing is the war horses.
    And corduroy skirts - for later.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 8 February 2020 08: 38 New
    10
    Heh, the familiar trademark squint of cuirassier helmets. "Boy, bring us a beer"
    The Nuremberg set in a minimalist style is simply inimitable.
    By the way, the plate codpiece of a reiter falling with a horse (Fig. 4) looks doubtful as for me. Inconveniently, and no sense
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 13: 54 New
      13
      Quote: Engineer

      By the way, the plate codpiece of a reiter falling with a horse (Fig. 4) looks doubtful as for me. Inconveniently, and no sense

      But the ladies liked !!! laughing
      I apologize could not resist!
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 8 February 2020 14: 01 New
        11
        For ladies, the Landsknechtov had fashionable bow-buffs and cutouts.
        Wallets were kept in the area of ​​the causal place. At the same time, volume was attached. And in front of the codpiece could embroider an image of a grinning face
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 14: 51 New
          +9
          And I about it! In those centuries, a golden codpiece, today a black boomer !!!
        2. CTABEP
          CTABEP 8 February 2020 18: 04 New
          +3
          Yes, the eligible suitors were - "Our whores wear more gold than your Queen." True, they lived on average for a very short time, but such is life.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 8 February 2020 19: 56 New
            +5
            By the way, a little died in the battles
            In the Tunisian expedition of Charles, 5 out of several thousand Landsknechts in the clashes killed a couple of hundred. From diseases died almost a third. Another 800 died on the way back when their ship sank.
        3. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 00: 06 New
          +5
          And in front of the codpiece could embroider an image of a grinning face

          Denis, somehow Mikhail-Mordvin, who is remarkably versed in painting, laid out this. drinks
          As you can see in the foreground, the peasant in the picture of Brueghel has a codpiece and a malicious mug! drinks
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 9 February 2020 12: 37 New
            +2
            Heh, we’ll introduce some kind of system in order to close this interesting and key question for understanding history)
            The influence of haute couture on armor (Mr. Henry the eighth says, I want it on this suit)

            Easy-peasy, my dear lord, gunsmiths say

            Expert opinion
            . Beheim about plate sulfonics:
            “... a peculiar piece of armor made of wrought iron arose, which should be regarded only in the aspect of the history of culture, codpiece or latz (from lat. Latus). As a matter of fact, the codpiece was the result of an elaborate taste and had no practical significance at all. And yet he goes back to a certain device of the XV century. At that time, chain mail in front had a bag-like elongation, which was then called latz. The early Latvians survived only a few copies. Later it turned into a cap made of iron, connecting with a bell with one or more rivets or sometimes fastened with a loop of colored ribbons. ”

            Evolution of Plate Codfings

            London Arsenal Hulfics
  • Talgarets
    Talgarets 8 February 2020 09: 01 New
    +8
    whose wife wears a velvet skirt or silk lower skirt
    Hmm ... And who checked the material of the lower skirt? I do not envy him ...
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 8 February 2020 09: 31 New
      10
      The clerk went with the inspection when a big wash was arranged.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 14: 53 New
        10
        I think everything is easier! As far as I know, for a small bribe, the shopkeepers themselves informed the fashionistas (lingerie merchants!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 8 February 2020 15: 49 New
          +7
          This is how double-entry bookkeeping developed. And you can’t say that a rich foreigner drove in and bought everything.

          But in those days there were less clothes, and she was valued more.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 8 February 2020 15: 18 New
      +6
      ... I do not envy him ...

      Yeah ... Immediately I remembered Don Rumata Estorsky: "Why do they wash themselves !!!?" wassat
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 8 February 2020 15: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Immediately I remembered Don Rumata Estorsky: "Well, why do they wash themselves !!!?"

        Again, classics misinterpret under vodka? Are you in vain, my friend yes
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 8 February 2020 15: 38 New
          +7
          As for vodka, is this solely from personal experience?
          With a minus sign - Alaverdi. request
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 8 February 2020 15: 42 New
            0
            Quote: Sea Cat
            As for vodka, is this solely from personal experience?

            No, it’s already in the past ... but did you get a quote from Otkudov? Oh my friend? wink

            Quote: Sea Cat
            With a minus sign - Alaverdi

            Yes, shove it in your neck ... he will be more comfortable there.

            Quote - from where? bully

            1. Catfish
              Catfish 8 February 2020 15: 45 New
              +5
              Put it in your scruff of your neck ..


              "Be rude, lad." (from). Do you even know where from? laughing
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 8 February 2020 15: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Do you even know where this is from?

                I not only know that. And also, my friend - I have an absolute ear, almost absolute literacy, and the memory of what I have read and heard.

                Here is the original of what you tried to say there:

                Quote: A & BStrugatsky, "It's hard to be god"
                ... I must, he thought. You never know what! .. Here you can’t get off with conversations. Saint Mika, why are they never washed here in the palace? Well, the temperament ...

                Flooders ... semi-literate. Twist quotes, (introductory word) negative
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 8 February 2020 15: 59 New
                  +6
                  One question - how does absolute hearing, absolute literacy and eidetic memory help human communication?

                  Does the world make it brighter?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 8 February 2020 16: 10 New
                      +6
                      You see, the absolute separation of people from cyborgs and verification of certificates and diplomas also apply to your merits.
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 8 February 2020 16: 12 New
                        0
                        Well, I don’t even know repeat

                        And I, and the truth, are somehow not very cyborgs request laughing

                        PS: it’s a little interesting to see the statistics, in your opinion, ahem, the zoo ... I just need to leave now, in a couple of hours I’ll see what you’ve drawn here yes
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2020 16: 24 New
                        +6
                        "About what in the world,
                        Oddly enough,
                        There are more people
                        They have their own countries,
                        I sat my
                        And their cities "(c).
                      3. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 8 February 2020 18: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        That in the world
                        Oddly enough,
                        There are more people
                        They have their own countries,
                        I sat my
                        And their cities

                        It does not fall short. Have you come up with? But, yes, beautiful, funny ... plus from me recourse
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2020 18: 51 New
                        +7
                        No. Assumption.
                      5. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 8 February 2020 18: 52 New
                        -5
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        Assumption

                        I do not have to know everything. Thank. I really can do a lot. Be careful wink
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 00: 08 New
                        +7
                        I really can do a lot. Be careful

                        what is more careful?
                      7. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 9 February 2020 01: 11 New
                        0
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        what is more careful?

                        With the words "Mikado". You can kill with words if you know how, of course yes
                      8. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 01: 48 New
                        +6
                        You can kill with words, if you can, of course

                        Can you? what
                        "Mikado"

                        well done. Introduce yourself? ...
                      9. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 9 February 2020 01: 52 New
                        0
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Introduce yourself? ...

                        Novel

                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Can you?

                        Could once. If necessary, I will probably remember.

                        Not necessary yet, I don’t see an object worthy of concern
                      10. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 02: 02 New
                        +7
                        I don’t need it yet, I don’t see an object of worthy concern

                        I don’t see an individual worthy of communication. Se la vie! hi
                      11. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 9 February 2020 02: 03 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        I don’t see an individual worthy of communication. Se la vie!

                        Sherche la fam ... buddy. Campaign, you miss it laughing
                      12. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 02: 10 New
                        +7
                        Campaign, you miss it

                        Unfortunately, enough! wink
                        You know, dear man, there was such an emperor of the Central African Empire - Jean Bedel Bokassa. But the problem was not that Jean-Bedel threatened his country's annual budget for his own coronation .. wink And the fact that he loved to eat his ideological opponents! So, when one of the Soviet military experts passed by the emperor’s kitchen, he noticed strange meat. And somehow he asked the emperor himself - what kind of dish was this? request
                        Bokassa licked her lips and said in a sweet voice .... "Ah, this .. this is sugar pork ..." wink
                        So you asked me - and I'm ready to lick my lips! wink
                      13. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 9 February 2020 02: 12 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        you asked me - and I'm ready to lick my lips!

                        If ready - so lick your hair ... what's the problem?

                        And ... grapes are green, probably ... Duc is a classic laughing
                      14. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 02: 17 New
                        +7
                        Ah ... green grapes, probably ...

                        explain! wink
                      15. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 9 February 2020 02: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        explain

                        Fable. Fox and grape. Classic request

                        You can lick your lips, get it - no ...

                        Still simple, one-way ... and if you have a harder thread to ask, where will you be, and how? recourse
                      16. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 02: 39 New
                        +6
                        Still simple, one-way ... and if you have a harder thread to ask, where will you be, and how?

                        I personally will have a mansion in the Dominican Republic and a harem of locals. So arrange? or dream weakly? Waiting, really looking forward to a strong opinion! wink
                        By the way, Rum .. Really, if you sell an apartment in St. Petersburg, you can buy a mansion there. yes But I must admit, this is not necessary in FIG .... request Categories do not think the same? Sorry! request What about traffic jams in your city?
                        As the sovereign Pavel Petrovich said - here I was born, here I will die ..
          2. snake
            snake 12 February 2020 19: 04 New
            0
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Could once. If necessary, I will probably remember.

            Zvizdet - not bags, as they say ...
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  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 February 2020 16: 28 New
    10
    Good day!
    I read the first article on VO today, I thought I would be interesting in comments. And here, dressed in full cuirassier armor, probably, and having battened down all the cracks, the Scandinavian favorite with logic stony in the sunlight "works" tirelessly. Leave him alone - he has no equal in the flood, I confirm. And the fresh air of a clear day will not be affected.
    Usually they do not penetrate into "museum" articles - not their path and knowledge is zero. This one is obviously lost. As well as the famous KVN character with a consonant name. laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 February 2020 16: 47 New
    +4
    Well, Alex, thank you! hi That pleased, laughed to tears, and most importantly in the subject! laughing drinks
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 February 2020 17: 04 New
    +8
    I love to read Vyacheslav's articles. And the guys' comments supplement them organically. I always discover a lot of interesting things for myself. Anywhere, just not here, you expect to see skirmishes and digging into punctuation marks. But some, alas, "on the drum", where to "drum". They have such a fate. request
    Both laughter and sin, but some men specifically want their sons to legally drive around military museums, play soldiers and play war games, without arousing suspicion from their wives about the "jumped-out cuckoo". laughing
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  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 9 February 2020 02: 49 New
    +7
    With me, too many people will leave the site.

    already passed, Alex. At the end of the 18th, they also banned me. True, there was, for what .. I came back ... and most of the visitors weren’t! Run away .... request
    No guys, PEOPLE are the main thing. Respectfully to all hi (including the administration!)
    Guys! Appreciate us. And we value you too. drinks
  • Lexus
    Lexus 9 February 2020 02: 38 New
    +5
    Is there a right to ask? I did not endow the sandbox with such authority. Even if there are polls in cuirasses.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 February 2020 21: 47 New
    +8
    That also happens. "There are women in Russian villages." Well, at the moment, although my "offspring" was not noted in the replication process, there is a grand-niece who, impatiently, awaits my next appearance, I feel like a character from a Hoffmann fairy tale.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 February 2020 22: 11 New
    +7
    Children - they are children. We once DR a friend in a restaurant noted where there was a funky nursery in three rooms with a teacher, a pretty young woman. When I ended up there, they threw me down and almost trampled me, even though I put on a cuirass. Barely carried away under the guise of offspring of friends. lol
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 February 2020 22: 17 New
    +8
    We, too, have not been adults all our lives ... What a sin to conceal.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 February 2020 22: 19 New
    +5
    But you can return to the interesting moments of life with the thought. The main thing is not too often.
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek 9 February 2020 01: 38 New
    -5
    Quote: lexus
    But here

    Have you seen the total number of comments and how much he wrote? fool and if you look at the skoka your "friends" have flooded, they would be silent already !!! wink wassat
  • Lexus
    Lexus 9 February 2020 01: 58 New
    +6
    Greek rode across the river.
    He sees a Greek in the river cancer.
    He put the Greek hand in the river.
    Cancer by the hand of the Greek - Tsap (S) / Russian proverb /.

    Night falls, the city falls asleep, the mafia wakes up

    You would sit in your fluder π-corner until the new "cuirass" is built up. Otherwise, anything can happen, and you will have to answer for the "increase" of 40 thousand per day. wink
    Screens in the database, if that good
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek 9 February 2020 02: 04 New
    -3
    Quote: lexus
    40 thousand per day will have to answer.
    Screens in the database, if that

    refer to the manual ... current there your plus / minus tracks are also noticeable !!! wink laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 February 2020 18: 22 New
    +1
    they would be silent already !!! wink wassat

    I registered on VO at about the same time as you, but I can't remember your comments. Where did you get the "filter marshal" shoulder straps, I guess, tk. I remember well the scandal about the "Torquemada Society". So, about keeping quiet refers more to you, "dear." hi
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek 9 February 2020 21: 14 New
    -1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I registered for VO around the same time

    half a year is not "about the same time" !!!
    Quote: Sea Cat
    but I can’t recall your comments in any way.

    I finally do not know who you are and what you write about !! laughing
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Where did you get the "filter marshal" shoulder straps

    1 / 031 = 300 - this is 5 plus per comment from the "army general" ... or 062 from the colonel general !! fantasy for you or what ??? what
    Quote: Sea Cat
    "filter marshal" shoulder straps,

    for the most gifted - I have genarmies !! fool
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I guess because I remember well the scandal about the "Torquemada Society".

    if you have such a good memory, you should know that the publication policy changed dramatically during the presidential campaign ... before that there were a lot of adequate people from whom you and your kind would sit in deep minuses !!! wassat so my epaulettes are the merit of those very adequate people, as well as the small number who stayed here ... and the efforts of your brigade to mine me will not end in anything ... well ... the current if your fleeing epaulets, if you overdo it in the minus! !! lol
    Quote: Sea Cat
    So, about keeping quiet refers more to you, "dear."

    so make no mistake here, "dear" !!!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 February 2020 21: 39 New
    +2
    for the most gifted - I have genarmies !! fool


    Exactly, there is something to be proud of! laughing
    And what difference does it make what is painted there, the "general army" or "FILTER marshal".
    But in reality, how did they rise above the corporal?
    Well, as for the adequacy of your "adequate" people, I'm not at all sure about it, because I carefully read what you write.
    I put a minus for you as an alaverdy on yours, delivered to me. In all other respects, I do not care how you treat me and the so-called. "our company".
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek 9 February 2020 21: 59 New
    -1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    In all other respects, I do not care how you treat me and the so-called. "our company".

    similarly ... note that you climbed up to me with your (as you think) clever thoughts ... would you still have really clever thoughts ... and so ... chatter about anything that, like two fingers on the asphalt, is set against you !! request wink
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 February 2020 22: 06 New
    +2
    ... there would still be really smart thoughts ... and so ... chatter about nothing, which


    Obviously, you sincerely consider your own boltology the ultimate truth?
    Well, God help you. Sorry, but I'm already tired of you. request
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek 10 February 2020 00: 01 New
    0
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Sorry, but I'm already tired of you.

    there was nothing to climb !!! laughing "where you studied, I taught there" !!! wassat
  • Catfish
    Catfish 10 February 2020 00: 31 New
    +2
    Taught? I can imagine what you taught there. laughing Teacher... tongue
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 February 2020 15: 51 New
    +8
    And I am annoyingly knocking:

    "How to check? To crawl under the dress -
    So you slam in the face! "(C).
  • Free wind
    Free wind 8 February 2020 09: 07 New
    +6
    Many thanks to the author for interesting publications, I do not always agree with you, but informative. It is interesting why later they refused the armor, because the presented samples will probably withstand the PM-ovsky bullet from 10-20 meters, well, from the weapons of those years, somehow protect. But when weapons and ammunition became almost modern, helmets appeared in the First World War, cuirasses began to appear in the Second World War, and then modern armor. Everyone was waiting for the author to describe the horned helmets, like the crusaders in the film about Nevsky, well, maybe at least somewhere there is such an artifact. It was a shame, of course, to be disappointed in youth, but even the Vikings did not have them. Thanks again.
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 10: 08 New
      +9
      Quote: Free Wind
      Everyone was waiting for the author to describe the horned helmets, like the crusaders in the film about Nevsky, well, maybe at least somewhere there is such an artifact.

      Just about horned helmets I already wrote in. But it will be possible to repeat. There are interesting commercial materials.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 14: 13 New
      11
      The bullet from the PM may possibly be held back! Only in those years was Makarov “not yet”, and armor from a XNUMX-meter musket made its way at times!
      Approximate caliber musket era armor 23-27mm. Yes, and corny such armor is heavy, so the round of evolution went towards maneuverability! "The bullet defeated the armor."
      By the way, history knew the ways of armor restoration before the First World War! Every time when the need for caliber of muskets, squeals and fusees was reduced, heavy cavalry in “armor” appeared on the battlefields - derbants, cuirassiers, cavalry guards, etc. A vivid example of "Napoleonic"! Reforms of hand weapons of the European powers, once again led to a reduction in the caliber of personal weapons and cuirassiers of any color and taste met on the Borodino field!
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 8 February 2020 14: 27 New
        10
        derbants - this is hardly a consequence of a decrease in calibers. They do not wear armor, they use the "roof". And they do not ride horses, except occasionally.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 14: 29 New
          +9
          Victor Nikolaevich, I could be wrong, but the first of them wore steel bibs!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 8 February 2020 14: 33 New
            11
            Who wore steel bibs? None of my acquaintances in the Derbants had ever worn a bronic armor, not like a steel breastplate. They always said authority is the best defense.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 8 February 2020 14: 41 New
          10
          I sincerely sympathize with the individual who set the minus. Living without a sense of humor in our time is a serious burden, you will not envy.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 15: 00 New
            10
            Well so, Nikolaevich! Life is such a thing that pilots took pans with them on a combat mission. Although I was always interested in the question - with or without a pen !!?
            By cons, VikNick, to someone, but you don’t have to worry about that !!! Once again bite the site of the haves and the guys and I will learn how the Latin numeral "13" is written !!!
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 8 February 2020 15: 10 New
              +9
              Yes, I’m not worrying about myself, but about a comrade who did not understand the difference between derbants and drabants.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 15: 23 New
                10
                VikNik You have known me for five years, if I’m bursting, then bursting. Guilty correct.
  • kalibr
    8 February 2020 10: 07 New
    +9
    Quote: Talgarets
    And who checked the material of the lower skirt? I do not envy him ...
    Reply

    Balls of city foremen were arranged, where people were invited according to the list. And special people in a special room checked ... what a skirt. Well, the fur on the dress was already visible. And if he was not well off, he was immediately torn off at all, which was a shame.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 8 February 2020 10: 48 New
      11
      What diverse functions, it turns out, can be in the Merlezon ballet.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 8 February 2020 15: 23 New
      10
      Vyacheslav, thank you very much! hi And a public check on my aunt's underwear just struck me! good drinks
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 8 February 2020 17: 20 New
        +9
        And a public check on my aunt's underwear just struck me!

        Konstantin, not without reason I dare to assume that she smashed the "inspectors" much more seriously, if not outright. lol
        Send your opponent there in the comments above. Would be "at ease". Something like this laughing

        PS Aunts no scented scarves would not have saved, and IN breathed deeply laughing
  • Sergelis
    Sergelis 8 February 2020 10: 22 New
    +4
    War is evil in principle, but if it goes, it is necessary to correctly assess resources.
    In XVI, Russians fought with the Tatars, where the armor of the load,
    But at the beginning of XVIII we encountered the cuirassiers of European Charles. And the army was rebuilt. What efforts - no longer controversial
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 14: 48 New
      11
      During the time of Peter I, heavy cavalry in Russia did not take root, although the beginning was laid. Derbants, (cavalry guards) of his bride, later the wife of Catherine!
      We owe the appearance of the first classic cuirassiers to Minch, but they did not show themselves in the Russo-Turkish war, and in the Seven Years War we were not impressed by the cuirassiers of Frederick! Although the gold workshop saved the Prussian monarch !!! Potemkin’s reforms created perhaps the most advanced and rational army in Russia. The form was definitely one of the most successful. In which there was no place for heavy cavalry! Our loudest victories are associated with this army, but with the advent of Paul, we again pecked at a fashionable toy! Although we must be fair, in addition to heavy cuirassiers, we got two types of light cavalry hussars and lancers! An interesting analysis of the armament of these types of troops! The Russian cuirassiers did not use karakol (shooting from pistols), but chopped in a tight formation with swords. Hussars armed with fittings, and ulans - with peaks. Strengthen the "body kit" cuirassiers is characterized. From the beginning, they received only one breastplate, then a thicker plate, and by 1812 a full breastplate! Which survived to the Crimean War. After cuirassiers in the Russian army were but the armor is gone!
  • bubalik
    bubalik 8 February 2020 11: 52 New
    10
    It seems to be knights, right? But no: the guys in these armor did not even stand next to the knights.

    laughing
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 8 February 2020 15: 41 New
      +8
      "The knights are sleeping, their swords are rusting,
      Only rarely do any of them wake up
      And he will knock on people from the grave ... "(C)

      Hello, Sergey. hi
  • Undecim
    Undecim 8 February 2020 12: 30 New
    +8
    Quote: vomag
    The article is good ... but all the armor is remake ... I think that the weapons in museums are the same ..
    Reply

    Right, remake. Purchased at Erakart. There is such good - in bulk.

    This Nuremberg infantry armor of the 999th century costs only $ XNUMX.
    Moreover, the Indian company Gazi International Prime Limited from the city of Hardwar produces this armor. By Indian standards - a village, 200 population. Here and forge slowly. Given that the minimum order is 000 sets, all museums are only forced with Indian armor.
    1. Lamata
      Lamata 8 February 2020 13: 35 New
      +6
      so where did they get the money for weapons.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 14: 19 New
        +6
        Here they compete with Spain! Models of military weapons and armor for every color and taste! Although those and others are still those ventures ....
        How do you like AK that is assembled by a dozen 2mm bolts? This is incomplete disassembly !!!!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 15: 03 New
          10
          What a "pig" walked along the branch! For what sins did Lamata get a minus?
          Guys, I understand that I’ve been slippers to many since 2013 ... but there’s nothing to offend for small ones !!!
          1. Lamata
            Lamata 8 February 2020 15: 54 New
            +5
            Pana Kohanku, thanks for the support, I’ve been on the site since 2015, so I’m in the know about drinking and dirty tricks))))
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 16: 01 New
              +9
              I focused on shoulder straps! I rarely put cons, below myself in rank, only as an exception! You can hint about your old Nick in PM, you may have met on VO!
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 8 February 2020 15: 27 New
          +9
          How do you like AK that is assembled by a dozen 2mm bolts? This is incomplete disassembly !!!!

          Hello, hello! drinks
          But what if the store runs out of glue? laughing
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 15: 54 New
            +9
            Good morning!
            One thing is a toy, another if it is positioned as a large-sized model with the possibility of firing pneumatic bullets - 4,5 mm. For patriotic education and initial skills.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 8 February 2020 16: 17 New
              +6
              No, I mean something like this. MGM is not entirely correct; I am making corrections. wink
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 16: 27 New
                +8
                Below is a quote about protecting the legs of riders playing with new colors! good
        3. Lamata
          Lamata 8 February 2020 15: 58 New
          +5
          Fans, however, earn a living.
  • God save the king
    God save the king 8 February 2020 15: 56 New
    +2
    Okay horses .... but why didn’t they protect their legs?
    The most vulnerable part is the rider.
    Why was it even necessary to cut with an armored soldier, if it is much easier to kill a horse under it or to chop off a leg?
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 16: 06 New
      +6
      Quote: God save the Tsar
      Okay horses .... but why didn’t they protect their legs?

      Tried! Known detail of horse armor is just for the legs. But it turned out very hard, too heavy.
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 8 February 2020 16: 29 New
        +7

        ,,, in such armor and on a horse you can what
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2020 16: 17 New
      +9
      Read the historiography of the issue! If in simple terms - “the foot is not the head, and the horse’s head is not even the finger of its owner”! One horsepower is expensive and cool, but one and only horsepower is dug up! Armor is weight, weight gain is a decrease in maneuverability. The advanced armor of the time of the "musket" rarely had equal strength. Vulnerabilities were protected by a thicker element of armor, sometimes double or even triple overlap. Dales and lapels, emphasis and reflectors were made. The owner of a left-handed person or a right-handed person, etc., was taken into account.
      The rider's legs were protected by a saddle, bagged bag, holster pistols and a sheath of personal weapons. Plus buttresses! Papon, a steel bib, etc., were dressed on Horse. I think the indicative “it’s easier to poke a foot and a horse” in those years did not have a channel, you can get the top and legs of a master from the top earlier from the owner!
    3. kalibr
      8 February 2020 17: 55 New
      +4
      The boots were made of very hard leather, and even with lapels. It was necessary to try to cut through it.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 8 February 2020 16: 42 New
    +5
    Here, in 1604 the year the use of the spear was officially prohibited by decree of King Henry IV. But in other countries it was used before this time, and after.
    However, in plate cavalry they were also actively used in XVI century.

    Some kind of problem. 1604- XVII century.

    Why cuirassier has closed helmets? Aiming is inconvenient ...
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 17: 52 New
      +7
      Well, I forgot to put the "stick". And they didn't need to aim. There was not even a front sight on their pistols. It was necessary to drive closer and shoot at close range. That's all, and preferably in the side or in the back, where there was no additional armor!
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 9 February 2020 10: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Well, I forgot

        It happens:)))
        Quote: kalibr
        It was necessary to drive closer and shoot at point blank range.

        This is understandable, but a raider with similar tactics has helmets with open faces.
        1. kalibr
          9 February 2020 12: 31 New
          0
          Similar, but not identical! That's just what the reiters had to not only shoot, but also to reload their weapons, and it is difficult to do this in a closed helmet. Therefore, cuirassiers are closed, at Reiters - open!
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 9 February 2020 14: 28 New
            +1
            I get it now. Thank.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 8 February 2020 17: 53 New
    0
    A question to the author - how does he feel about modern "tournaments"? How much do they correspond to his ideas about the Middle Ages -
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 19: 55 New
      +7
      I liked it here. I had our Russian tournament in Penza in 2002 ... what I liked, the judges didn’t like it, ha ha. But they waved great here.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 8 February 2020 20: 05 New
        +4
        Fans of istfekh wrinkle their nose from this, but definitely fun.
        He was at the first tournament of St. George. It was very cool there. NOT bugurt, very seriously
  • faterdom
    faterdom 8 February 2020 20: 44 New
    +2
    Vyacheslav, great. Articles of exactly the same length and degree of immersion, so as not to become boring and special. Plus well-chosen illustrations.
    To maintain such a balance is talent and the ability to present material. I wish you to publish in the form of a book - at a young age I would dream of such a thing.
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 22: 20 New
      +7
      Thanks! I appreciate your opinion. My book "Warriors of the Bronze Age" is in the Yauza publishing house, and they have it in their plan. The "Encyclopedia of Knightly Armament" is being reviewed by another publisher. There are plans and developments for a number of books. But ... the book market has dropped a lot. People stopped buying them. So now there are problems with the publication. There is an excellent "Indian novel" "People and Weapons" on the table. But ... marketing shows that the topic is not interesting to our citizens. Here came my book "The Crusaders" in "Yauza" - and that's good.
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 9 February 2020 10: 57 New
        +2
        Have you tried it through electronic resources?
        1. kalibr
          9 February 2020 12: 28 New
          0
          Ivan! They don’t pay there. I do not need books for which I do not pay.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 February 2020 21: 25 New
    +7
    Hello, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thank you for the article! I have a question: with the general "blackening" of the armor, why are the rivets always "light"? After all, it is obvious, not only to me, far from metalworking, that the joints are coordinated in the first place?
    1. kalibr
      8 February 2020 22: 22 New
      +5
      Good evening, Anton. Light? The first thing they rub about all that is possible, that’s light. And besides, they are often copper and cannot corrode. And also rub ... And the armor itself and the joints were oiled.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 February 2020 22: 33 New
        +6
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, where they rub, on the left shoulder pad?!?! Meanwhile, copper is oxidized much more readily than iron.
        1. kalibr
          9 February 2020 07: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          where do they rub on the left shoulder pad?!?! Meanwhile, copper is oxidized much more readily than iron.

          I do not know!
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 8 February 2020 22: 48 New
      +8
      I think, Anton, that in relation to the infantry armor from Nuremberg, which in the picture, painting was used and not blackening or bluing. For mass production, blackening is both expensive and time consuming. Among other things, you can save both time and money on finishing, you do not need to polish for painting. And polishing of individual areas and rivets made it possible to give a richer look. Marketing move.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 February 2020 23: 03 New
        +4
        That is, you, Viktor Nikolaevich, agree that it was riveted with iron? And then I already imagined how riveted copper is "eaten".
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 9 February 2020 01: 33 New
          +6
          riveted with iron
          Steel armor and must be riveted with steel rivets, otherwise the structure is weakened. There is nothing complicated in their manufacture, as in the riveting process.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 February 2020 23: 06 New
        +5
        I wonder what they painted? I remember the Japanese varnished.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 9 February 2020 01: 31 New
          +7
          I wonder what they painted?
          If we proceed from the fact that this is already the second half of the XNUMXth century and Europe, then it is logical to assume that the paint was based on linseed oil and contained natural resins in the form of rosin, mastic resin or amber, and alcohol. As a pigment - magnetite, "slate" (shungite). Graphite and soot are not suitable, free carbon with iron forms a galvanic pair.
  • Vitaly Voloshin
    Vitaly Voloshin 9 February 2020 08: 19 New
    -1
    The article does not say about the method of making armor, but this is a rather interesting question - if by forging, then there should be bumps on the back, and there are none. Making a helmet is generally a mystery, judging by the level of technology of that time
    1. kalibr
      9 February 2020 12: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Vitaly Voloshin
      then there should be bumps on the back, but they’re not there.

      How do you know that? There are no photos on the back side of the article. This time. In what museum were you shown similar armor from the inside out? These are two. Three - here was already my article on the technology of manufacturing such armor. And fourthly, you live in Russia and measure everything by our standards, that is, the standards of people who are sufficiently ignorant of Western culture and history. Abroad, there are several monographs, specifically on the technology of manufacturing armor and their metallographic analysis. Give a link to them for you to find and read? Or with English you have nowhere tight?