Russian Cheetahs become obsolete: Vietnam is eyeing frigates

The goal of Vietnam is to make a revolution in military affairs by turning the troops into an army that meets the demands of the times. It is being implemented as part of the Step by Step to the Present program, gradually improving the quality of weapons and equipment.

No submarines needed

Recently adopted by Hanoi, the White Paper on Defense maintains this course, focusing on the development of the naval fleet.

In the next 5 years, Vietnam will not be able to acquire a larger number of submarines, but priority will be given to surface combat and other ships

- Fan Van Giang, chief of the General Staff of the Army, explained, indicating that the country's Navy is now rated as the most modern in ASEAN. This state of affairs must be maintained.

According to VietDefense, pennants are still being written off in South Korea: another Pohang type corvette and two Ulsan class frigates have been dismissed. It is alleged that of these, Hanoi promised two ships. The Vietnamese military are deeply modernizing the units donated by Seoul, installing instead of relatively light weapons powerful Russian anti-ship systems "Uran-E". So, two Pohangs have already been converted, which have turned from actually patrol vessels into shock pennants: they are capable of carrying 8 anti-ship missiles X-35 Uran-E (or their local counterpart KCT-15).

Ship type Flight III Pohang with Uranus-E

What to choose in Russia

However, the naval program provides for not only replenishment of the fleet through the modernization of foreign ships, but also the acquisition of new units. During a recent visit to Russia by the chairman of the country's National Assembly, Nguyen Thim Kim Ngana (December 2019), she discussed Vietnam’s intention to purchase a third pair of Cheetah frigates 3.9 (each of them carries 8 Uran-E anti-ship missiles).

As some sources reported yesterday, the navy may choose another option because the Cheetah design is considered obsolete. In this regard, earlier the Navy is eyeing the Russian frigates of the project 22350 and 11356Р / М

- notes VietDefense.

At present, the striking forces of the Vietnamese fleet are represented by 6 submarines of the Hanoi type (local designation is Varshavyanka 636.1) armed with Caliber-E, Cheetah corvettes 3.9 (4 units) and Pohang (2 pennants) equipped with Uranom-E ", one patrol ship PS-500 with a similar system and 12" Lightning "with anti-ship missiles" Termite "(4 boats) and" Uran-E "(8 units).

Comments

[rocket757]

In general, in comparison with a large neighbor, Vietnam is complicated.
Weight categories are not the same, fewer resources.
The question is how to solve the problem.

[Orkraider]

The question is how to solve the problem.

Purchase 20350.
What can I say, rolled out the lip is not weak

But to call the Cheetah obsolete is powerful. They built a very well-equipped ship.

[rocket757]

We can no longer, and we do not want to contain "partners" ... all the more, history has shown a lot against such actions.
What the media write can be anything. Let's look at specific events, cases.

[maxim947]

If they have such a desire, then it must be satisfied as soon as possible, without going into the question - why do they need them and who are they going to fight with))
This is a very good help for our shipyards.

[hydrox]

Reasonable: while the buildings are being built, in the meantime, the engines can come in time.

[bayard]

If they choose 22350, then this will not even violate the plans of our program. This year, the last pair of 22350+ will be laid, and there is no talk about the continuation of this particular series yet, so next year you can lay a pair for Vietnam. But this is if the cost suits them, but certainly not cheap. For its fleet, the price is about 450 - 500 million dollars. , then for export, taking into account the export tax, the price will be about 700 - 750 million dollars. a piece .
11356 it will not work to order, there the Ukrainian GEM is there.
But about the latest version of the "Cheetah" now it is clear for whom the project was prepared (from 16 CD in the UKSK), although there is the "Gibka" air defense system, but Vietnam seems to want frigates all the same.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: bayard

11356 it’s impossible to order, there Ukrainian GEM

and what? did it hinder the Indians and us? - no ... Ukraine does not sell for our fleet only, but if it is for others, then please

[bayard]

Nevertheless, these are risks. With India, how many years it took to negotiate, although both price and quantity, and a complete set were agreed ... and the Vietnamese themselves will have to negotiate with the Sumerians, but will they want this red tape?
However, 11356 is much cheaper, but also weaker in all respects at times. In terms of price-quality ratio, 22350 is much preferable, especially in version 22350+ (with 24 KR in UKKS). Here and air defense, and the hull at altitude, and seaworthiness is better.
But the price will be two times more expensive.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Orkraider

They built a very well-equipped ship.

It’s better to put a Caliber instead of Uranus. Uranium then bullets from inclined launchers, and accordingly these launchers should be directed towards the target, in contrast to the vertical launchers under Caliber and Onyx.

[Pavel57]

Uraniums are generally sent to different stones, they say it doesn’t clash on firing range

[Pereira]

But to call the Cheetah obsolete is powerful. They built a very well-equipped ship.

Hindus learn to bargain.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Orkraider

Purchase 20350.

there is no such information in the article, there are 22350

[Orkraider]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Quote: Orkraider

Purchase 20350.

there is no such information in the article, there are 22350

Eyeglass
I had in mind 22350, and everyone understood me, energy means good invested in numbers

[Svetlana]

At all times this problem was solved by entering into an alliance with a strong patron. Example: the Baltic countries joined NATO. Previously, it was the "institution" of vassals and suzerain.

[Eugene-Eugene]

As now, judging by the alliance.

[hydrox]

Do not forget :: they joined NAT under billions of subsidies from the EU :: from next year, subsidies end and only debts and obligations on NAT are left :: national debts (and figs would be with them!), And obligations are Russophobic and exclusively anti-Russian

[igorlvov]

Russian pilot Li Xi Tsyn

[LiSiCyn]

Well, not always pilots ... There were also "Vietnamese" air defense officers and they even say "Vietnamese" tankers.

[sabakina]

They say there were crocodiles. Green ones. And the strange name is ... Gene ...

[bayard]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Well, not always pilots ... There were also "Vietnamese" air defense officers and they even say "Vietnamese" tankers.

You know, there were even paratroopers. Even the Chinese language was used during the Vietnam-China War ... with their Vietnamese wards ... they got it. He knew the commander of such a group.
But the greatest glory was gained, of course, by air defense officers. My commander worked two missions there, shot down two planes - V-52 and F-105, and from the zero years he was chairman of the Soviet-Vietnamese Friendship ... Many of our air defense workers visited there ...

[LiSiCyn]

In the early 90s, I studied at DOSAAF in Alma-Ata, specializing in radar operator - driver. Our teacher (an elderly uncle) often told us about that war. At first, we thought, "heals" us. But when, on Victory Day, he put on all his orders and medals, we just went nuts ... He told me that initially they had to train the Vietnamese and go back. But when they were already waiting for the ship, an order came to stay. The Vietnamese in a few days, due to negligence, lost part of the complexes. He said that the Vietas had a pronounced chuyka. Once, it saved his life. Shrike got into the station, 2 minutes after the Vietnamese pulled him out of there. On the screen, there was no goal.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: rocket757

Weight categories are not the same, fewer resources.
The question is how to solve the problem.

Well, if radically, as in the DPRK ... And the big neighbor becomes polite, polite ...

[L-39NG]

And what big neighbor became polite - polite to the DPRK? Russia? China?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: L-39NG

And what big neighbor became polite - polite to the DPRK? Russia? China?

Yes, without China, the DPRK would not exist long ago. And the United States became polite, since the South Caucasus and their bases there became very uncomfortable ... Like Japan ...

[rocket757]

As an option. But again, many of the costs on this path, pushing from different angles will start not weakly.

[Svetlana]

Vietnam, in contrast to the North. Korea, is in economic relations with all the cap. the world. Factories and factories of international concerns were built there, and therefore nothing radical, the Vietnamese government will not do. Do not dare.

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

I agree, so I wrote about this, that recently I’ve been looking at the mattress covers, and it started, some patrolling patriots probably still think about how, in the times of the USSR, we will throw billions into loyal regimes, but no, we won’t For many of these freeloaders, they turned out to be a free money bag, to the detriment of their own people, and during the reign of the drunk, they also paid the debts of the USSR. Minus one. P. S, as a result of trade wars, oddly enough, Vietnam won exactly.

[saturn.mmm]

The United States invested 20 billion a year in Vienne, it turned out to invest better than the USSR, and they slowly forget about the war.
If there is a desire and money, at least let Peter the Great order.

[voyaka uh]

More than 2 million Vietnamese live in the States.
Their average standard of living is higher than the average for the States - people are hardworking, energetic. Almost everyone lives in California, the richest state.
And they have been investing a lot of money in Vietnam since Vietnam took the Chinese economic path.

[bayard]

Deliveries to Vietnam even during the war were on credit, although interest-free and with a deferred payment. In addition, immediately after the war, our geologists found oil on their shelf and organized a joint venture with a profit in half. Each year, the USSR, and then Russia received $ 500 million. - 50% profit.
And in the post-Soviet period, Vietnam always paid for weapons. Money. So if you want frigates and enough money - you are welcome. Neither India nor Vietnam complained about our ships.

[businessv]

Quote: rocket757

The question is how to solve the problem.

Yes, there seems to be no problem so far, but the fleet is not being built quickly.

[rocket757]

The disputed islands, then for exclusive economic zones, may quarrel. So far, this has not reached a frankly dangerous level, but how will hydrocarbons be found and developed there ???
Everything can be.

[businessv]

Quote: rocket757

Well, how will they find hydrocarbons there and begin to develop ???

Oh, if they find, then it will definitely be a problem! Better not look until the fleet is formed!

[rocket757]

Just to find a demanded resource, to get and sell it, these are the means for which you can build / buy a fleet.
A vicious circle, in short.

[hydrox]

There a long time ago (40 years ago) oil was found and even the VietSovPetro enterprise was created ...

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: businessv

Yes, there seems to be no problem so far, but the fleet is not being built quickly.

There are always problems. What to build? What a fleet, why. Vietnam with its coast and defense strategy, why the frigates? Surf the oceans or protect trade routes from China. Rave. Let the US battleships drive.
They need a coastal mosquito fleet, minesweepers and submarines. On the coast, complexes of anti-ship missiles and more runways for aviation. And they will be happy.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: rocket757

The question is how to solve the problem.

If against China, it will be difficult ...
1. Boats will have to impede the actions of AVM khinchikov and large NK.
2. Attacks from behind islands (from an ambush) by missile ships (RTOs, Cheetahs)
3. The active work of aviation in reconnaissance, identification, target designation, and launching missile strikes against the NK.
4. Mining the straits and setting up the AZM in the maneuvering areas of NK khinchikov.
5. Air defense / missile defense is the same as in the war with the United States (or maybe it should be better).
But there is no need to count on help from the Russian Federation, as in its time from the Union. No matter how well we treat Vietnam, China is our "strategic partner" ... Therefore, we will make every effort to reconcile the mouse and the mountain.
IMHO.

[LiSiCyn]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

That's just to help from the Russian Federation, as at one time from the Union, you no longer have to rely.

Therefore, they will count on the help of the United States. Contacts are already in full swing. Sometimes it looks very strange, such "things" ... A country that has been rolled into dust, adding a couple of YaBs, suddenly becomes one of the most important partners ... Others have been flooded with napalm with "chemistry", but years have passed, and already common interests - cooperation.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Contacts are already in full swing. Sometimes these "things" look very strange ..

And what do you want?
1. Of the two evils choose the third ...
2. You want to live, and you’re not getting so excited!
3. Politics is a dirty business, but the lessons of history are not forgotten. The Vietnamese continue to "love" the Yankees just as fiercely as they did during the carpet bombing ... But they know how to smile, without any "proletarian hatred" with their mysterious Asian smile, hiding a knife behind their backs. Asians, their mother's a monkey!
4. If we were on the counter with the Khinchiks, then the SRV would be a counterweight along with India, and so ... strategic partnership and mutually beneficial cooperation. We are hugging friends against the hegemon and K *.
AHA.

[TermNachTer]

US aid is a very strange subject - it is there, then it is not. They will hand over "with giblets" anyone when the need is no longer.

[rocket757]

The salvation of drowning is the work of the drowning themselves ...
moreover, not everything is in order at the "rescue station".

[TermNachTer]

Perhaps it will be easier to cover the coast of the DBK? Because in an open battle with the Chinese, "nothing shines" at all. It may be better to buy "balls" and "bastions" - maybe more, for the same money that will be spent on ships. Moreover, the firing range of a DBK should be sufficient to cover Vietnamese targets at sea.

[orionvitt]

Quote: rocket757

Weight categories are not the same, fewer resources.

Yes, compared with a large neighbor, Vietnam has no resources at all. Nobody will capture them already. Moreover, in our time, waging wars of conquest is more expensive. Now wars are fought exclusively for markets and political influence. And if there comes a direct confrontation, then a couple of corvettes, against a strong opponent, costs nothing.

[hydrox]

Hanoi would take our frigates, but for us, where can we get engines for them?
By the way, we have a successful joint venture with Vietnam - we could have paid with oil. Thanks. that they don’t even offer coconut oil ...

[sharp-lad]

What is wrong with coconut oil? Quality has a pleasant smell, almost no taste, zero harmfulness and benefit. When frying, it almost does not form carcinogens.

[svp67]

Quote: rocket757

The question is how to solve the problem.

You must first understand what the problem is? It is unlikely that Vietnam will be chasing China in the construction or purchase of aircraft carriers and "large destroyers". And what do they want, and they need to inflict maximum harm on a potential enemy even before approaching their coast, make it as difficult as possible for him to capture individual islands and coastal territories, as well as complicate, or even prevent the actions of the enemy fleet, especially its amphibious forces. And for this we need ships with excellent strike weapons, air defense and anti-aircraft defense and, if possible, not very large. So, their policy regarding equipping the fleet can be understood

[rocket757]

It is not yet clear which particular problem may worsen?
Indochina, like BV, has its own specifics .... although, everything depends on the natural resources that can be obtained, resources.
In short, it is very necessary to be in the subject, so that it is reasonably discussed.
Honestly, not my topic, everything is very approximate.
I just understand that they are very different in capabilities. But the arbitrator is not there!

[svp67]

Quote: rocket757

... though, everything depends on the natural resources that can be obtained, resources.

It is there too. In the coastal zone and around the islands, hydrocarbon deposits are discovered. But there is one more point. The fight against China, or rather the opposition to the Chinese "pearl necklace" strategy. They so beautifully called the strategy of creating their bases around the world to advance their interests and protect trade routes, and for their creation they are actively using, including the disputed islands.

[rocket757]

China has another flourishing period of the "thousand-year empire." If only it didn't come to a big showdown ... here, those who want to warm their hands on this right away will climb!
Resources, resources, sea transport routes besides .... everything is very tempting, and therefore dumb!

[svp67]

Quote: rocket757

China has another flourishing period of the "thousand-year empire."

Alas, "another round of historical development"

Quote: rocket757

Well then immediately wishing to warm up on this hands climb

It seems that China understands this very well and is not trying to act impudently, has switched to "creep-force" tactics. He will take a plot and quickly equip it ... so that there is no one who even desires to challenge it by force.
We are just watching this for now, but the United States is beginning to get very worried and in every possible way offer to increase the possible victims, such tactics of China. They are also well aware that China immediately takes control of the most important supply routes for Japan itself, which means it gets the opportunity to influence its eco-economy

[rocket757]

Judging by the way China is building up its fleet, the example of the "mistress of the seas" is very relevant to it!
Who controls the trade routes, that ..... is very relevant even now.

[svp67]

Quote: rocket757

example of "lady of the seas"

Well, at least not the "master of siberia" ... this is a very costly business, it is not enough to set up ships, they also need to be maintained, so let them "have fun" for now

Quote: rocket757

Who controls the trade routes, that ..... is very relevant even now.

It was, is and will be. Who controls them, that controls the development of the world

[Chaldon48]

The problem can be solved by shopping, for which there is enough money and slowly try to build something yourself, for example, boats

[g1v2]

The combination of Varshavyanka and MRK 22800. There is no sense in anything more. Well, maybe a couple more cheetahs can be used for patrolling.

[Alex_Rarog]

Goal for fiction is cunning)

[Demagogue]

Cheetahs Vietnam sold at 350 million dollars are virtually empty. This is almost the price of Gorshkov, at least for our navy, and he is an order of magnitude more powerful. Of course, they lick their lips. Not on pocket underfrigate 20385 they look. They already have it even a little thinner.

[jonht]

With the growth of ambitions or ambitions of a neighbor, their needs also grow ....
Cheetahs are good ships, but according to their ability to do so, air defense and anti-aircraft defense are weak. So Vietnam wants it, which is more serious. And still they can take it in Europe. FSA can contribute, knowing our problems with power plants for ships.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: rocket757

We can no longer, and we do not want to contain "partners" ... all the more, history has shown a lot against such actions.
What the media write can be anything. Let's look at specific events, cases.

The habit of hanging ballast remained. Hence the ambition. I wonder who they were going to successfully confront there. First of all, without an alliance with Russia?

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Demagogue

Cheetahs Vietnam sold at 350 million dollars are virtually empty. This is almost the price of Gorshkov, at least for our navy, and he is an order of magnitude more powerful. Of course, they lick their lips. Not on pocket underfrigate 20385 they look. They already have it even a little thinner.

I would have stood by the kulman for an hour, and would have begun to understand that refinement to tropical requirements (as export refinement was called here) cost money. Large. Other materials, plastic, cable products, electroplating, components, electrics, etc. ...) Will the translation into the local language of the whole bulk of the operating documentation be done by Kot Matroskin? With legally verified and notarized translation. If it was a batch of hundreds of pieces of iron, then the cost of refinement would be attributed to all units, and the cost of each would not be significant. The use of another tropical-resistant plastic usually requires the manufacture of a different mold, designed for a particular brand. And this, such a mediocre one, for pressing parts that way, 0,5 X 0, 5 meters costs more than a Zhiguli car.

[Mityay65]

Quote: Victor March 47

I would have stood at the culman for an hour, and would have begun to understand

Thirty years as a culman has sunk into oblivion. They have not stood for a long time, but are sitting in front of the screen.

Quote: Victor March 47

I would begin to understand that refinement to tropical requirements (as we called export refinement) costs money. Large. Other materials, plastics, cable products, electroplating, components, electrical and more ...)

I'm afraid you are grossly exaggerating the problem of "tropic-resistant" performance, properly "tropical". The problem is the opposite, when the Mistral was bought, it was with great difficulty, simply by pulling an owl on a globe, and adjusted to the operating conditions in the north. There is a serious problem - the use of cold-resistant structural steels.

[petrol cutter]

"Thirty years since the drawing board have sunk into oblivion. They have not been standing for a long time, but sitting in front of the screen."
Well, thirty- not thirty ... Then I completely agree.
Otherwise, the comrade is absolutely right. And he hardly exaggerated / rather even belittled the entire list of "smut" ...

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

Recently, Vietnam began to glance at the mattresses, and not without reason, maybe in vain we removed the base in Kamran ???

[knn54]

It is not worth (in terms of growth) the third economy of the world to be called a "hide."

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich

Recently, Vietnam began to glance at the mattresses, and not without reason, maybe in vain we removed the base in Kamran ???

Themselves do not leave the bases. At the request of workers, local, of course ....

[saturn.mmm]

By the scarcity of gold reserves at that time

[Dimly]

Helicopter carrier order us Vietnam. will build! Chinese from the United States will scare .. Only expensive is all!

[Luty]

The Cheetah project is the development of the 90s and export-oriented. And two of these ships as part of the Caspian flotilla are those ships that could not be realized and built for themselves. Therefore, the Vietnamese are right in some ways. But the project 12418 missile boats are very even modern ships, both inexpensive and mastered. Is it possible to create something more modern on the Cheetah platform. This is a very complex issue, since measurements and displacement will not allow to establish a larger number of modern types of weapons.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Cooking on the frigate of the project 11661 "Cheetah-3.9" of the Vietnamese Navy

[L-39NG]

Vietnam has money. And not small. The giant Vietnamese diaspora living abroad, very generously supports Vietnam by sending money to the Central Bank of Vietnam. It seems to be to their relatives, and the government and Vietnamese financiers are very skillful at investing and charging great interest on this money. For example, here in the Czech Republic, Vietnamese with permanent residence permits, dual citizenship, and even only with Czech citizenship work in trade and culture (artists, TV commentators), and in law enforcement agencies, and appear in regional politics and they are not all small support the financial system of Vietnam.
So, Vietnam has money and Vietnam is not at all as poor as it might seem from the outside. Vietnam can afford excellent military equipment, but for now, it does not want to tease the Chinese "tiger".

[Victor March 47]

Quote: saturn.mmm

By the scarcity of gold reserves at that time

And what, they were fed their gold reserves? Confusing the basics.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: L-39NG

Vietnam has money. And not small. The giant Vietnamese diaspora living abroad, very generously supports Vietnam by sending money to the Central Bank of Vietnam. It seems to be to their relatives, and the government and Vietnamese financiers are very skillful at investing and charging great interest on this money. For example, here in the Czech Republic, Vietnamese with permanent residence permits, dual citizenship, and even only with Czech citizenship work in trade and culture (artists, TV commentators), and in law enforcement agencies, and appear in regional politics and they are not all small support the financial system of Vietnam.
So, Vietnam has money and Vietnam is not at all as poor as it might seem from the outside. Vietnam can afford excellent military equipment, but for now, it does not want to tease the Chinese "tiger".

In 2013, this indicator (transfers to Vietnam) amounted to 11 billion US dollars, which is a record figure.

Please do not forget to correctly quote:
Sedelnikova S.F., Nguyen T.Kh. Formation of the Vietnamese diaspora abroad (“Viet-kyu”) and its contribution to the development of the national economy of Vietnam // Young Scientist. - 2015. - No. 10. - S. 780-782. - URL https://moluch.ru/archive/90/18714/ (accessed: 26.01.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX).
for a 87 millionth country, it's a drop in the bucket. Moreover, in order to settle in Europe, a Vietnamese needs initial money for assimilation, bribes, etc., which reach more than $ 10000 each. Having become addicted, most are forced to engage in drugs and other illegal businesses. So, these incomes are semi-criminal and can be drastically reduced at any time. The outrage of the Czech population, where the largest diaspora in the world is already overlapping ....

[L-39NG]

If you are from the Prague Cavarna, then you do not know the Czech Republic, hovada, Us, Vietnamese, do not overlap. I apologize to the moderator

[Romeo]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Orkraider

They built a very well-equipped ship.

It’s better to put a Caliber instead of Uranus. Uranium then bullets from inclined launchers, and accordingly these launchers should be directed towards the target, in contrast to the vertical launchers under Caliber and Onyx.

Of course it’s better, especially since there is a Cheetah with Caliber in the Caspian flotilla. Why didn’t they choose such equipment for their Cheetahs?

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Mityai65

Quote: Victor March 47

I would have stood at the culman for an hour, and would have begun to understand

Thirty years as a culman has sunk into oblivion. They have not stood for a long time, but are sitting in front of the screen.

Quote: Victor March 47

I would begin to understand that refinement to tropical requirements (as we called export refinement) costs money. Large. Other materials, plastics, cable products, electroplating, components, electrical and more ...)

I'm afraid you are grossly exaggerating the problem of "tropic-resistant" performance, properly "tropical". The problem is the opposite, when the Mistral was bought, it was with great difficulty, simply by pulling an owl on a globe, and adjusted to the operating conditions in the north. There is a serious problem - the use of cold-resistant structural steels.

What was the conversation about, don’t remember? About today or about half a century ago? What screens, what CADs? We did not know any such things then. Dissipated snot with envy in continuing education courses on this topic. In Moscow, in different smart academic research institutes. Three general notebooks scribbled along Grafore. That was the end of all our training. And about the materials. They had several molds for different ones. They differed in the degree of shrinkage. some - 2%, others - 3% on small sizes could not give a damn.
About 0,2% only dreamed of. And the elbows bit with annoyance. But only a little bigger, thinner in the walls, so such warping, and distortions .... They spat on the national economy, for what emery. But the gold miners were forbidden to touch the surface with an abrasive. I am not one pound of salt with these comrades ...

[lvov_aleksey]

I don’t understand at all what the problem of Vietnam is, the big brother (USA) doesn’t even fart nearby, he doesn’t know what else is there. Maximum will send only its satellites!