The details of the development strategy of the electronic industry of the Russian Federation until 2030 were announced

In the course of the week, the official government portal published a document that announced the approval of the development strategy of the electronic industry of the Russian Federation for the period until 2030.

The document notes that the goal of the new strategy is to create a competitive industry based on the development of scientific, technical and human potential. At the same time, the warning section contains the warning word “optimization”. Caution is associated with the fact that usually under optimization they try to hide reductions, mergers, mergers and cuts.

In this case, optimization should, as experts say, be directed exactly the opposite: the creation of new technologies, jobs, improving the regulatory framework. All this ultimately, according to the strategy, should lead to the satisfaction of Russia's needs in modern electronics.

The document itself was not born by chance. Today, even a person far from the world of science and technology is aware that our country is overly dependent on foreign components in the field of electronics. And this despite the fact that the country carries out import substitution in other sectors. To resolve this situation, including reducing the dependence on electronic imports, it was decided to give the course a whole strategy.

Details and targets in the government document are announced. By 2030, it is planned that the share of civilian products in the total industrial production in terms of revenue will be at least 87,9%, for domestic electronic products in the general domestic market in terms of revenue - 59,1%. The ambitious goals of export volumes by 2030 are over $ 12 billion.

The implementation of the strategy begins this year with work to increase the share of domestic electronics in the domestic market. The main emphasis, experts say, will initially be made to ensure that defense industry enterprises increase the share of civilian output in the field of electronics.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

[Thrifty]

Vladimir 2U - to believe, and even more than that, no one has the right to ban you! You can even hope. ...

[Vladimir_2U]

Moreover, we have freedom of religion.

[Chaldon48]

Faith, Hope, and Love, here are three guiding stars for the soul of a Russian person.

[Pessimist22]

About some kind of Yotafon they talked a lot, even showed who saw him?

[Vladimir_2U]

According to rumors it was even turned on! The legendary thing!

[Svarog]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

According to rumors it was even turned on! The legendary thing!

I even wanted to buy it .. came to the salon, and the seller says to me .. that this should not be done .. because it is heated terribly, it is incredibly slow and the price tag is creepy ..

[Lexus]

I even wanted to buy it .. came to the salon, and the seller says to me .. that this should not be done .. because it is heated terribly, it is incredibly slow and the price tag is creepy ..

Wrong competitors were catching up.

[reservist]

enough to find out the price tag on it ...

[Svetlana]

[Shrugging] On sale is. Buy it and it will be in your hands.

[Fikys]

My wife had two years until he crashed. The device turned out to be quite good, by the way, the only serious drawback was that the battery did not last long, every night it was necessary to charge. Took after the hype, inexpensively, just 8kr.

[Alf]

Quote: Fikys

Nice, by the way, the device turned out to be,

And what was Russian about him?

[Fikys]

Quote: Alf

And what was Russian about him?

I do not know. I did not take it because of its origin, but because at that time the price-quality ratio was the best, and also because of the second screen, to read books.

[Alf]

Quote: Fikys

Quote: Alf

And what was Russian about him?

I do not know. I did not take it because of its origin, but because at that time the price-quality ratio was the best, and also because of the second screen, to read books.

If my memory serves me right, there were two things Russian in a yutafon — a box and a price. Everything else is on the principle of With the world a thread.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alf

If my memory serves me right, there were two things Russian in a yutafon — a box and a price. Everything else is on the principle of With the world a thread.

In the best Volvo trucks in the world, only 20% of the components are made in Sweden, and everything else is brought from Southeast Asia and other countries where production is cheap. So the principle of "from all over the world a little bit" is used by all corporations, and there is no need to be afraid of this for the production of household goods. As far as I know, Samsung, the largest manufacturer of televisions and monitors in the world, opened a plant in the Kaluga region a long time ago.

Today, the factory produces 100% of all TVs sold in Russia, as well as monitors and washing machines under the Samsung brand.
Samsung's factory complex in the Kaluga Region includes a finished product assembly workshop, a printed circuit board and microcircuit manufacturing workshop, and a thermoplastic molding workshop. The complex also has a main warehouse center for all Samsung products imported into Russia.
The main assembly workshop includes 8 assembly lines for TVs and monitors Full HD, UHD 4K, as well as televisions with a QLED TV quantum dot display. In total, the plant produces over 100 models of television equipment, including Curved TVs and monitors with a curved screen; TV lineup is updated annually. During the period of high production plans (September - November), the main assembly workshop produces up to 16 units of television equipment per shift.

I don’t know if I need to suffer from this, but I think that because of this, our prices for this equipment are lower than in other countries.

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

Samsung's factory complex in the Kaluga Region includes a finished product assembly workshop, a printed circuit board and microcircuit manufacturing workshop, and a thermoplastic molding workshop.

And where does the heart of the matrix system come from?

[ccsr]

Quote: Alf

And where does the heart of the matrix system come from?

From here:

Samsung
At the moment, this Korean company is the largest manufacturer of matrices of any type and is not going to leave the leader’s laurels so easily.
The corporation has more than a dozen of its own factories, including those with the eighth generation processes, which are dispersed in South Korea and China.

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: Alf

And where does the heart of the matrix system come from?

From here:

Samsung
At the moment, this Korean company is the largest manufacturer of matrices of any type and is not going to leave the leader’s laurels so easily.
The corporation has more than a dozen of its own factories, including those with the eighth generation processes, which are dispersed in South Korea and China.

So I’m talking about that, the most important thing is brought.

[Alex_Rarog]

Even felt really good machine.

[reservist]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

... I dream of naming a Russian smartphone in life.

I would like to make a mistake, but ...

[astepanov]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I dream to nurse the Russian smartphone, during life. )))

Yes, yes, and that there was a large baby, a keel for four at least.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I want to believe in good

I am also convinced that a bright tomorrow awaits us. But will it wait?
They say that two people can be sent to break through at once: Mutko and Rogozin. And then the bright future will not run away from us.

[businessv]

Quote: astepanov

They say that they can immediately send two to a breakthrough: Mutko and Rogozin. And then a brighter future will not run away from us anywhere.

Maybe repeatedly tested frames? Chubais for example! He alone will definitely do everything quickly and for a ruble!

[Dimy4]

laughing Can repeatedly checked frames? Chubais for example! He alone will definitely do everything quickly and for a ruble!

With this uh citizen, if we trust him with electronics, let's move on to wooden computers. Well, or at most "iron Felixes"

[Irokez]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I dream to bring the Russian smartphone

But is the iPhone the main priority in the development of electronics? Not guys, it’s not so fast, but the main thing is the electronic base of components, processors and everything else revolving around this and especially for space and military. And then, by the residual principle, maybe citizen will come which will please and satisfy everyone.

[alexmach]

But is the iPhone the main priority in the development of electronics?

You don’t need to write these nonsense, read at least the article you are commenting on.

And then, according to the residual principle, maybe a citizen will come

This does not happen. Without civilian products, there simply will not be enough volumes to load enterprises, I am already silent about the fact that we would build something or create production ...
Tank production begins with mass agricultural engineering and without it it simply cannot exist in a vacuum.

[ccsr]

Quote: Irokez

But is the iPhone the main priority in the development of electronics?

The question is absolutely correctly posed, but they do not notice it.

Quote: Irokez

Not guys, it’s not so fast, but the main thing is the electronic base of components, processors and everything else revolving around this and especially for space and military.

Indeed, this is too long a process, it will not work quickly.

Quote: Irokez

And then, according to the residual principle, maybe a citizen will come who will delight and satisfy everyone.

I think this will never happen, because even if we invest heavily and get the best components, no one in the world will buy them from us, so investing in the development of consumer goods is an absolutely stupid undertaking. This question was raised twenty years ago, and then they offered to invest $ 25-20 billion in the latest developments in order to overtake the largest manufacturers of components, but immediately realized that we would never pay back these investments. So how much they decided to focus only on military development, and for everything else, use components from different manufacturers, including Taiwan. So we need to take this calmly, taking into account the sanctions and the opposition that the West is giving us, and not to panic about this.

[hermit]

Reasoning of this kind is a repetition of Zeno's paradox, according to which Achilles will never be able to catch up with the tortoise. But Zeno's paradox is a sophism. That is, a false statement. There are examples of Japan, South Korea, China and the USSR, which refute such reasoning. And if these gentlemen prefer hydrocarbons, then yes, they will never catch up with anyone.

[ccsr]

Quote: hermit

Reasoning of this kind is a repetition of the aporia of Zeno, according to which Achilles can never catch a turtle.

These considerations are based on knowledge of the world market and a Marxist understanding of the division of labor in a developed society.

Quote: hermit

Those. false statement.

It is interesting to know what? You do not blame 98% of the countries of the world for not creating spacecraft, their delivery vehicles into orbit, and floating nuclear power plants. I don’t even mention weapons - so what is the falsity of the world division of labor?

Quote: hermit

There are examples of Japan, South Korea, China and the same USSR, which refute such reasoning.

There are examples when a country occupies a certain niche in a certain industry and does not yield to leadership for many years. For example, the simplest example - Japan has long been a leader in the production of wristwatches, but lost to little Switzerland, because it chose the wrong orientation and missed the trend that watches will become a luxury item and "mechanics" are in great demand. But I have not heard in Japan crying at every corner that they have to buy Swiss watches, as well as European passenger cars, which are in high demand there.

Quote: hermit

And if these gentlemen like hydrocarbons more,

Why not make money on them, even if the Americans do not disdain this?

[hermit]

It was not Marx who wrote about the benefits of the international division of labor, but Adam Smith in the 18th century. This is an axiom of the liberal approach to economics. But if his theory were true, England would still be the only industrially developed country in the world. It would export industrial products and import raw materials. But this is not so. Marx wrote about the inevitability of changing socio-economic formations. Therefore, other Western European countries, Russia, Japan, China, and the USA followed England's path. That is, they began to develop industry. True, each country has its own characteristics. And what capitalists had to do in Western Europe and the USA, communists had to do in the USSR and China, due to the initial backwardness of these countries. Roughly speaking, throughout its history, the USSR did nothing but try to catch up with the West. But at some point, it chose to capitulate and fit into the world economy as a raw materials appendage, rather than fight for a worthy place in the world market, as China does. Is it not profitable to do electronics? Tell that to the Chinese. Ten years ago, no one had heard of Chinese mobile phones. And soon, it looks like there won't be any others. Every country has different capabilities. Guinea-Bissau can hardly build spacecraft. But we are talking about Russia, right? I agree that under the current government, no technological breakthrough is possible. But this is a political problem, not an economic one. And as for hydrocarbons, you can't make much money on them. They are a product with very low added value. Yes, the Americans make money. But they don't only make money on hydrocarbons.

[ccsr]

Quote: hermit

The benefits of the international division of labor were not written by Marx, but by Adam Smith in the XNUMXth century. This is an axiom of a liberal approach to economics.

Perhaps you just did not study Marxism:
Encyclopedia of Marxism

“... The division of labor,” wrote Marx and Engels, “also gives us the first example of the fact that while people are in a spontaneously formed society, there is, therefore, a gap between private and general interest, while, therefore, the division of activity is not voluntary , and spontaneously, a person’s own activity becomes alien to him, opposing him with a force that oppresses him, instead of dominating him ”

And it doesn’t matter whose “axiom” it is, but this division exists, regardless of someone’s views.

Quote: hermit

Roughly speaking, throughout its history the USSR has only done what it tried to catch up with the West.

I don't know what you want to prove with this, but the fact that the West has constantly stolen many of our achievements was especially evident during the collapse of the USSR. I don't see anything criminal here - this is a common practice known as industrial espionage, and it began in ancient times.

Quote: hermit

Electronics is not profitable? Tell the Chinese about it.

Very profitable, especially when one and a half billion consumers domestically. Do you know that the number of different gadgets inside China is greater than in the United States, or that they have already overtaken the Americans in terms of the number of cars produced? We do not have such an internal resource, which is why we need specialization in certain areas.

Quote: hermit

I agree that under the current government no technological breakthrough is possible.

I did not say that. Yes, and your conclusion is incorrect - we cannot lead in six hundred out of a thousand technologies that determine the level of development of mankind, as it was in the USSR, but we can be leaders in a number of industries that guarantee us the country's security and an acceptable level of development of the rest of society.

Quote: hermit

As for hydrocarbons, you won’t earn much on them. This is a very low value-added product.

These truths have long been known, but there are not 286 million of us anymore, but half as many, and there are not enough workers for everything. So we will have to sacrifice something, as sad as it is. I don't see any reason to throw ashes on our heads because the problem is different - how to return the income from the extraction of natural resources to the people, this is the main task for us.

[hermit]

The division of labor and the international division of labor are not the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B1%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0 % B5_% D0% BF% D1% 80% D0% B5% D0% B8% D0% BC% D1% 83% D1% 89% D0% B5% D1% 81% D1% 82% D0% B2% D0% BE As for everything else, we need a second socialist revolution. Then the USSR will recover. Otherwise, they are doomed to vegetation. And money from the extraction of natural resources, no matter how you divide it, there’s not enough for everything and for everyone ..

[ccsr]

Quote: hermit

The division of labor and the international division of labor are not the same thing.

But I hope you will not deny the essence of the word "separation"? Should he be reckoned with or not?

Quote: hermit

As for everything else, we need a second socialist revolution.

You can’t argue with this - I agree with you.

Quote: hermit

And money from the extraction of natural resources, no matter how you divide it, there’s not enough for everything and for everyone ..

I think the issue is not so much about division, but about directing profits to our internal problems of the whole society, and not to the yachts and palaces of the Abromovichs.

[Kazbek]

Without "this power" in any way, right? It seems that the power has already changed. Not?

[Alf]

Quote: hermit

Ten years ago, no one heard about Chinese mobile phones. And soon, it seems, there will be no others left.

After the war, the Americans laughed over the Japanese cars until you drop, but where is the American auto industry now and what do ordinary Americans drive?

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

I think this will never happen, because even if we invest heavily and get the best components, no one in the world will buy them from us, so investing in the development of consumer goods is an absolutely stupid undertaking.

But for this, you need to have a sales market in the form of CMEA.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alf

But for this, you need to have a sales market in the form of CMEA.

Yes, that's when we could make a breakthrough in this direction. But now we simply won't be allowed to sell our electronics on world markets - the example with our gas pipeline is the best proof of that. Even the obvious gain in buying our gas is ignored by European countries in favor of politics. It's not hard to imagine what would happen if we started offering them our electronics even in terms of components. For example, we have the best amphibious aircraft in the world, the Be-200, and fires are raging all over the world. And where is the queue for the amphibious niche? We've reached the point where our aircraft is leased from American companies during fires, but they just don't buy it from us. And here some people think that we will be allowed to squeeze out Taiwanese or Chinese companies in the components market - dreamers...

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

Yes, it was then that we could take a breakthrough in this direction. And now we simply will not be allowed to sell our electronics on world markets - the example of our gas pipeline has proved this best.

Moreover, interestingly, those at the top shouting about the inaccessibility of sales markets for our goods, the CMEA themselves were falling apart.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alf

those at the top shouting about the inaccessibility of sales markets for our goods, the CMEA themselves were falling apart.

Those who are now talking about this, during the CMEA, generally did not play any role in governing the country. So you should not ascribe to them what they had nothing to do with.

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: Alf

those at the top shouting about the inaccessibility of sales markets for our goods, the CMEA themselves were falling apart.

Those who are now talking about this, during the CMEA, generally did not play any role in governing the country. So you should not ascribe to them what they had nothing to do with.

Comecon collapsed with the USSR. The collapse of the CMEA is a consequence of the collapse of the USSR. Those who ruined the USSR so far in power, before they were in sight, now they rule because of the throne.

[businessv]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

With both hands in favor, colleague! I want to see my electronics again! But in order not to experience great disappointment, let's remember how the Strategy of Socio-Economic Development of Russia 2020, adopted on November 17, 2008, ended (or rather, in a year will end). Nothing but a change of government in the last reporting year. Although, also a positive one!

[reservist]

Quote: businessv

... let's remember ...

here for some reason more "fresh" news came to mind ...

[Samaritan]

here for some reason more "fresh" news came to mind ...

Let's be literate and objective!
I will give the full text from the President's article "Russia is Concentrating - the Challenges We Must Answer" http://www.izvestia.ru/news/511884

Over the next 10 years, 10 – 11 million young people will enter the economy, of which 8 – 9 million will have a higher education. Already today, 5 million people with higher education are not satisfied with the salary, but also with the nature of their work, lack of prospects in the labor market. Another 2 – 3 million - specialists of public institutions who want to find a new job. In addition, 10 million people are employed in industries built on archaic, backward technologies. Such technologies should be a thing of the past - and not only because they lose out on the market. Some of them are simply dangerous for the health of workers and for environmental well-being.
So creating 25 million new, high-tech, well-paid jobs for people with a high level of education is not a beautiful phrase. This is a must, a minimum level of sufficiency. Around the solution of this nationwide task it is necessary to build a state policy, consolidate the efforts of business, create the best business climate.
EEE No matter what you have ...

[reservist]

Yes, I agree, during the "note-taking" part of the information was lost and I even agree that it was distorted, but the general meaning of both "interpretations" of the President's message to the Federal Assembly, oddly enough, coincides - in a very short time, it is necessary to create 25 million high-tech jobs.
Let, not in "additions", but to replace the old ones, but create new jobs.
The designated deadlines have passed, of course, the whole country is not visible from my "bell tower", but during this time in those organizations / companies where and with whom I had a chance to work, the number of jobs (even just workers, not just high-tech ones) did not grow , but was reduced.

[businessv]

Quote: reservist

here for some reason more "fresh" news came to mind ...

this is from the same Strategy 2020, colleague!

[Alf]

Quote: reservist

here for some reason more "fresh" news came to mind ...

So they will catch the self-employed and press them to the cash register, that’s all 25 million jobs will appear. As they say, follow the movement of the hand ..
By the way, an advertisement about how well and need freelancers to pay taxes has already begun on zomboyaschik. Female artists are happy to tell how they registered as NW and how they felt calm and easy after that.
It reminds me of fairy tales about grandmothers who, at the age of 70, began to work on computers and jump with parachutes.

[bk316]

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

Here in front of me on the table is a Yotaphone, and next to it is a Yandexphone - a phone like a phone, it is quite usable. Of course, I need it for work, but I have about the same one - though it is Chinese

[Starover_Z]

Quote: bk316

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

Here in front of me on the table is a Yotaphone, and next to it is a Yandexphone - a phone like a phone, it is quite usable. Of course, I need it for work, but I have about the same one - though it is Chinese

YotaPhone, unfortunately a few years ago, was sold to the Chinese ... So, without clinking glasses ...

[minus]

If the etafon can be called a Russian development with a huge stretch .... Then the junk from Yandex is a ready-made Chinese device, of Chinese development. Only Yandex programs are installed .... Enterprises cannot yet offer anything normal even with the use of foreign element base and production. I mean large enterprises ... The only normal product that I had a chance to see was the SAN SDR HF transceiver. Our developers are enthusiasts, production in Asia .... SAN SDR, SAN SDR 2 DX, MB1 transceiver are some of the best amateur HF transceivers! As for our military electronics, we have to use many components of low quality Asian assembly .... Well, for example, we do not have any normal ADCs of our own production .... And for example, access to microcircuits from the same Analog Device is closed by sanctions .... The electronic industry of Russia is in a deep rectangular potential .... pit .. ADC, multipliers, vector modulators / demodulators ... We do not have all this ...

[minus]

Here is a foreign-made emergency buoy .... And here is our bottlenose buoy ... tens of times the difference in size and weight .... There are a lot of microchips and batteries in our .... Foreign on a couple of microchips. Products included in the maritime register are very expensive. Only foreigners make a profit at low cost, but ours cannot .... Although they also lift up the cost of equipment by 5-10 times in comparison with similar equipment, but not included in the marine register ...
R.S. I can't upload my photos. Although maybe it's for the best)))) Otherwise they'll prosecute me for photos of the stuffing of the Afalina buoy! :laughing
PPS And how now can I upload my file from the phone to the site?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I dream to nurse the Russian smartphone, during life.

will you switch from Solaris to Kalina?....we already have our smartphones..... - change your gadget!

[lucul]

will you transfer from Solaris to viburnum ?.

And why is Solaris better than Vesta? )))
Here in Minsk, Vesta sells very well, first place in new car sales for 2019, surpassing Polo, Rio and Solaris.....

[minus]

I have a friend moved from Priors to Volkswagen Jetta in the maximum configuration .. Long matter ... Material Volkswagen!))))

[Samaritan]

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

Make no problem, sell the problem!
If we are talking about the release of a phone strictly in Russia without different "Chinas", the cost will be more than $ 6 billion (calculations have been made several times). According to the most conservative estimates, AIPLE and Samsung have to sell more than 100 million units for recoupment.
Next, we have an oil painting: they made a phone, but there is no one to sell! Samsung, for example, sells over 500 million gadgets. Accordingly, continuous losses, and you will be the first to start joking at "successful managers" who screwed up again ...
And so the work is being done!

[reservist]

Nice to see the same pictures!
And what is the price tag for this systematic?
Are there already open access languages ​​/ development environments for this platform?

[Samaritan]

Nice to see the same pictures!

Sure, not a problem
From the news:
The Russian operating system "Red OS" is selected for Huawei servers.
The release of the Alt Education 9.0 operating system for the domestic Elbrus platform has been officially announced, notable for its built-in support for multi-seat configurations on serial-mounted MCST machines based on the Elbrus 801-PC with two or three graphics cards Radeon RX 570/580, R7 240, R5 230 .

Baikal Electronics has introduced its new Baikal-M processor.

[210ox]

Well, it is produced in Taiwan ....

[Alf]

Quote: 210ox

Well, it is produced in Taiwan ....

So what in Taiwan? The main thing is being produced. And the fact that the factories of microelectronics were destroyed and dispersed qualified specialists was trifles, so to speak, time-consuming.

[keeper03]

If you look in terms of benefits, then we will not have anything !!! No civil aviation, no electronics, no education! Got it - damned capitalists !!!

[vadimtt]

Here the problem is not in the bourgeoisie, but in the fact that at the right time they wandered (and even in general, without false modesty, this can be called the most wrecking ) and the silicon microelectronics train left. And he can no longer catch up. Here there is only a chance not to oversleep a new technology that will turn the industry upside down. And become the first in it. Whether we have a chance, given the state of education and science, is a big question.

[ccsr]

Quote: vadimtt

but in the fact that at the right time they sneaked in (or even, without false modesty, this can be called the most sabotage) and the train of silicon microelectronics left.

This is not quite true, because the point is not that we were slacking off, but that at that time we could not create materials for radio electronics with high purity, in which there would be no various impurities, and we did not have high-quality equipment for spraying processes, which led to contamination of finished products. All this led to a huge amount of defects at the output, which is why then we could only develop the military direction. In general, those who are in the know, understand that the point is not so much in our inertia, but in the technological backwardness of that time.

Quote: vadimtt

There is only a chance not to oversleep a new technology that will turn the industry upside down.

We still have niches in which we are leading - space technology, the nuclear industry, some types of aircraft, the icebreaker fleet and, naturally, weapons. So you can still choose several areas of our development, and bet on it, and not try to become a world leader where it will require too much cost.

[vadimtt]

That's right, a lot of things had to be developed for electronics, but this was simply not needed globally, and when they understood (and again not completely) that it was very necessary, it was both late and very expensive. Convulsive and abrupt movements, as always, did not lead to anything (can anyone remember how in the days of the very late USSR, at the first suspicion of incorrect work, a crat was pulled out and on it, without any diagnostics, they simply stupidly bit out all the cases with a "bowl with smoke "and changed to" diamond ", after which everything worked).
And yet, you contradict yourself, talking about the niches of our leadership
You can't do without electronics in these niches, from the word "absolutely". The trouble is that electronics are very specific, and while there were no complex algorithms, which now sometimes determine at all whether or not to be a "product", everything was somehow produced. But now a high degree of integration and complex execution block architectures are needed. And they arrived - massively imported MIPS with ARM. And piece "Elbrus" (and thank God that he even exists). As expected, this is not a mass product, moreover, it lags behind Western models for several generations. And this will not change until there is a mass character, which makes it possible to recoup new developments of both the architectures themselves and technological equipment. Those. never.

PS: The only thing I regret is that they did not begin to develop a line of PDP-11 architecture that is seamless in DEC. From the point of view of the programmer, it was a paradise in which it was no more difficult to assemble using assembler than BASIC Sometimes it even seems to me that DEC was killed "for" Intel precisely because the USSR adopted this architecture as the main one for mass devices.

[ccsr]

Quote: vadimtt

And yet, you contradict yourself, talking about the niches of our leadership

What can you say more specifically?

Quote: vadimtt

You can't do without electronics in these niches, from the word "absolutely".

This is no one denies, like the fact that we produce our own electronics. But the whole question is its cost, and if we can afford expensive components for the defense industries in small quantities, then mass production of them for consumer goods will ruin our manufacturers.

Quote: vadimtt

As expected, this is not a mass product,

So you yourself have confirmed this.

Quote: vadimtt

And this will not change until there is mass

I’m talking about this - we don’t have such mass production that would cover the costs of developing and manufacturing the latest components that are above world level.

Quote: vadimtt

From the point of view of the programmer, it was a paradise in which it was no more difficult to assemble using assembler than BASIC

You understand this better than I do, so I hope you correctly stated the essence of the problem.

[Svarog]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

The iPhone was already .. and then it was going to China .. In 2030, as some top Apple managers predict, there will be no smartphones anymore .. It would be interesting to know who exactly will be involved in the development of electronics, otherwise I remember one billionaire undertaking something sour ..

[dSK]

Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov criticized the bureaucracy in the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Economy and the VEB when drawing up a program of investments in the microelectronic industry. According to him, the reason for the collapse of the production of microelectronics was the transfer of enterprises to private hands and the withdrawal from this sphere of the state.

"The investment funds that the state invests in this direction require a multiple, I repeat, a multiple increase. Today we are thinking about one or two serial factories in Russia. There are over 30 of them in China." -
Borisov criticized the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Economic Development for the bureaucracy.
The Deputy Prime Minister recalled that the decision to invest by the state in the reconstruction of the microelectronic industry was made at a meeting in April 2018, but the process is being delayed due to bureaucracy.
РИА Новости10:23 10/12/19

[Svarog]

According to him, the reason for the collapse of the production of microelectronics was the transfer of enterprises to private hands and the withdrawal from this sphere of the state.

That’s right .. it’s starting to reach .. you still would understand that the largest enterprises, the energy sector, natural resources, alcohol - all this should belong only to the state. Then, retirement money and social obligations will appear. Science, pharmaceutical industry from the same series ..

[depressant]

A colleague, indeed, according to well-known Russian analysts in this field of production, Russia was hopelessly behind in the field of microelectronics from Japan, the United States, Germany, South Korea and China, which had recently purchased products from us. Hence the concern of Deputy Prime Minister Borisov. The lack of mass production of microelectronics for the army threatens the country's defense capabilities. However, in the upper echelons of power there is hardly any understanding that microelectronics is a very expensive production, especially at the stage of product development. Suffice it to say that in 2019 9,91 billion rubles were allocated for the development of microelectronics, which is ridiculous in itself, and 11 billion for the maintenance of the State Duma. People simply do not understand what they are dealing with.
And this despite the fact that only 29% of the declared amount, that is, 2,83 billion rubles, reached production. Experts determine such amounts as those intended for theft.

[Military77]

especially at the product development stage

Well this is not at all true. Development - like dirt in the spring in the Kursk region. There is no own technological base for the production of components less than 65nm, they either do everything abroad, like Elbrus processes, or do it with us, but with imported equipment.

[AU Ivanov.]

IPhones are also collected in China. So what?

[AU Ivanov.]

No thanks. Smartphones and other consumer goods are easier and cheaper to buy from the Chinese. But for industry, its own electronics are needed as air.

[ANB]

So they are. But from Chinese parts.
In Zelenograd with Angstrom, what now? Somebody knows?

[depressant]

I answer my ANB colleague.
The state corporation VEB.RF, having received control over 29% of the Angstrem-T plant on December 2018, 100, filed an application for bankruptcy on January 9, 2019. The bankruptcy commissioner is Petr Naumenko.
On April 21, 2020, Naumenko's bankruptcy report will be held. The plant worked all this time. His debt to VEB amounted to 815 million euros. The money was given at 8,5% per annum for the construction of a subsidiary factory for the production of 130- and 110-nanometer products with the subsequent possibility of reaching 65 nm. Equipment purchase was supposed from AMD.
I remember that in 2016 Angstrem-T released a series of 90-nanometer controllers and incidentally came under US sanctions. Even by the end of 2019, the Ministry of Industry and Trade was unable to help an enterprise capable of mastering the production of products in the 10- and even 7-nanometer range.
So, we are waiting for April 21.

[ANB]

And this is development.
The whole city was built under this enterprise.

[depressant]

Colleague, there’s a dirty story.
We had a Minister of Communications, Leonid Reiman, who happens to be the owner of Angstrem-T. He demands that the company pay 423 million rubles in court. The court was surprised and refused - it's your company, so if there are losses, they're yours. VEB intervened, put pressure on the court, and now they'll be collecting this money from the company. Not only that, Reiman is a co-owner of the parent company, Angstrem. Now he's demanding 2,2 billion rubles from it. How strange your ways are... What a development!

[ANB]

I have a friend from Zelenograd. How much he told me what was being done on Angstrom in Soviet times. They mastered LSI, then VLSI. I did not even understand how to solder circuits with such progress now. Ruined.

[vadsonen]

It is important here to define what is meant by "Russian". Each smartphone has a bunch of chips, and they are developed by different companies around the world, as they are produced. The company itself (like Apple or Samsung) creates, mainly, only the specification of components, and is also engaged in advertising / sales.

We will not see a fully developed and manufactured smartphone in Russia in the next century. This will require a colossal scientific and industrial base, and these are thousands of firms, from design bureaus to factories (most design bureaus do not have factories) to very specific engineering software. We need an army of engineers of various profiles, and engineers need to be lured by large salaries, beautiful modern cities, social packages, etc.

Creating all this is orders of magnitude more difficult than flying into space, and Russia is hopelessly behind here.

[ANB]

Under the USSR, just all of the above was planned. And now software is crashed.

[igorj 51]

Dreaming is not harmful, it is harmful not to dream ..))

[Alf]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

How did yutafon not suit you?

[Thrifty]

Why not until 3030? And how will they implement it - will they start buying Asian stuff? There is no beginning and no end in sight to this fairy tale! Especially since the pseudo-new government is not burning to introduce any plans to pull the country out of the economic swamp.

[Invoce]

Quote: Thrifty

Why not until 3030? And how will they realize, they will start to purchase the Asian total? This fairy tale has no beginning, no end in sight! Especially since the pseudo-new government is not burning to introduce any plans to pull the country out of the economic swamp.

Now Asian swindlers are buying and passing off as domestic (Reimer, head of the Federal Penitentiary Service, from the fresh "Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (Armed Forces) of Russia, Colonel-General Khalil Arslanov was charged with two episodes of particularly large fraud totaling almost 6,7 billion rubles ", Carrier accidents, GC recognized not high-quality components) ...
And so everything is possible! Only through total personal responsibility and toughening of criminal liability (equate to treason) for theft from the state budget... But otherwise, I am FOR it with both hands!

[knn54]

It looks like Medvedev and Co. ALSO failed to implement THEIR order of the Government of the Russian Federation dated 15.12.2012 N 2396-r on the development of Russian electronics (2013-2025).

[lucul]

Why not until 3030? And how will they realize, they will start to purchase the Asian total?

Just yesterday I read the news - Samsung and LG with giblets sell their production lines (entire factories) for the production of LCD panels and will completely leave this market (only design). They were crushed by the Chinese at a price.
Why not Russia to stick around and buy these production facilities ....

[Thrifty]

We will not be allowed to buy us! They, like Motor Sich una ukroine, used to ruin completely production but will not allow us to normal civilian technologies related to electronics and, especially, microelectronics.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Thrifty

Why not Russia to stick around and buy these production facilities

Have you forgotten the pipe layer on the SP-2? If they try to sell us, then they will immediately be crushed with sanctions.

[Thrifty]

Stepan -you attributed someone else’s comment to me, but about the pipe-laying man, the voices of those screaming suddenly stopped saying that tomorrow gas pipelines would begin to break off en masse in the ukraine, and in general, the pipe! Was everything all right? ??

[Piramidon]

Quote: Thrifty

Stepan - you attributed someone else's comment to me

Squeeze! The error came out. Sorry, overlooked.

[AU Ivanov.]

And where are we going to sell these panels, if the Chinese at the cost of Samsung itself crushed? Cheaper than the Koreans we can’t do, so that the money to buy production capacity is discarded.

[Flatter]

Interestingly, you can optimize if this industry is not

[maden.usmanow]

DIC will raise electronics?
Neither in America, nor in China, the defense industry are not engaged in the production of electronics, this is done by specialized private companies.

[rocket757]

The details of the development strategy of the electronic industry of the Russian Federation until 2030 were announced

Well, why so ??? The headline made me happy, and then ...

At the same time, the warning section contains the warning word “optimization”. Caution is associated with the fact that usually under optimization they try to hide reductions, mergers, mergers and cuts.

How to understand THIS? Do we have a bunch of ineffective enterprises "work \ bend"?
My native factory ... has long been bent and there are NO signs of recovery!

Ambitious tasks in terms of export volumes by 2030 - over $ 12 billion.

It can simply restore everything that is necessary and do what is necessary ??? But to catch up and overtake ... it already was!

[Thrifty]

Rosket757 - that’s right now they’ll finish off your factory completely, and with it a bunch of others, breathing into the frankincense, because nefeg incense should not be translated. ...

[rocket757]

Quote: Thrifty

Rosket757 - that’s right now they’ll finish off your factory completely, and with it a bunch of others, breathing into the frankincense, because nefeg incense should not be translated. ...

My ... or rather, OUR plant (the whole family worked on it) has long turned ... a lot of all sorts of salons, offices, warehouses and ... there is nothing from the former. The fence is tall except.

[From Siberia we]

is this not Vega software?

[rocket757]

Quote: From Siberia we

is this not Vega software?

It was called SLEEPLY .... "Ventilation Systems Plant" !!! like this. True, three renaming passed with me! Including the "MECHANICAL" plant was called .... where will I give this, no one could understand. Only before the very end was the "EVT" defined, it really was closer to the topic.

[From Siberia we]

BEMZ and PO "Vega" also went under the knife

[rocket757]

The VEGA radiol is being dusted by me for repair. Children wanted to twist old vinyl with fairy tales .... no pickup heads ???

[From Siberia we]

From where. I also want to collect Vegovsky’s radar. Recall youth. But in the early 90's in full swing CD players

[rocket757]

Over the years, I have a collection of everything! Now I use it as teaching aids for my "why". It is clear that now other electronics have gone and the generation of button presses and replacement of boards, blocks is growing ... but the basics, the basics will not be superfluous !!!
And much more clearly ... I wanted to show the children what a detector receiver is, so there is NO broadcasting !!! I also had to gondobit transmitter broadcasting ....
ALL IN BUSINESS! Seniors are now studying digital technology, at the simplest level of course ... but without it, nowhere.

[From Siberia we]

So, nobody has cancelled the basics of electrical engineering and radio engineering. The element base has changed, but the principles are the same. And for children, yes, many of the simplest things are like a miracle! It works and that's fine, but how is it in the masses not interesting?

[rocket757]

I’m already not a few years old, glasses on my nose, hands already, already ... still carry around from the whole factory, they are familiar with all sorts of things for repair! if the student had not been prepared, preoccupied in advance, they would not have time to repair anything. And then, taught about a dozen. I can do two things! The rest got stiff, laziness and other stupid things ... only boards can change.

[cniza]

It can simply restore everything that is necessary and do what is necessary ??? But to catch up and overtake ... it already was!

Nothing changes in this world until one empty phrase, without the personal responsibility of a specific person, nothing will move.

[rocket757]

Quote: cniza

Nothing in this world changes until one verbiage, without the personal responsibility of a particular person, moves.

They are building ambitious plans! And just to WORK, now who will have to wait and how long?

[Varyag71]

I live in Voronezh. So many factories, enterprises were defense and civilian areas. Not much left. And in their place is now the LCD, shopping center, or complete devastation. Huge workshops are empty and abandoned. A sad and sad vision.

[rocket757]

Wow, I had to go on business trips more than once, then still ... very, very, disappointing !!!

[lucul]

The details of the development strategy of the electronic industry of the Russian Federation until 2030 were announced

So far, this year, this is the most significant news.
AT LAST .....

[Arg107]

"In the course of the week, the official government portal .." I hasten to notify you of the shameful mistake, on the very first line of your article.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Arg107

I hasten to notify

If it doesn't work, they won't notice. Below, under the article itself, there is a "panic" button.

[Arg107]

It doesn’t roll with the button either, there is a sending limit, if there are more than three errors in the article, then you can specify the first three, then the beard.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Arg107

you can specify the first three,

Well, if there are more than three, then you need to bring down the whole article.

[cniza]

The implementation of the strategy begins this year with work to increase the share of domestic electronics in the domestic market.

And what has Chubais been doing in recent years, maybe it’s time to ask those who charged him?

[solzh]

Quote: cniza

Chubais

Chubais, his face is not touched. So there is no one to ask.

[cniza]

And he spoke about those who charged him, look carefully ...

[solzh]

I probably didn’t write like that, I just wanted it in short, but it didn’t make that sense ... I meant that Chubais didn’t touch his face, and if he was like that, then those who put him there weren’t even more touched, and therefore not whom to ask

[cniza]

There is just a link that needs to be mowed and no one will protect them, then the loop will narrow.

[prior]

Chubais was engaged in nanowealing in macro sizes.

[cniza]

Why did you do it now?

[Nikolai Korovin]

It will have to be restored from the production of pure elements, which went almost to zero. For starters - at least silicon.

[solzh]

on approval of the development strategy of the electronic industry

This is certainly good. At least we’ll stop depending on the West in electronics, but I'm not sure, since it’s interesting to know who will be the recipient of the investment and who will be involved in the development of the electronics industry, I hope not Western companies. Electronic industry is needed, and it is very necessary. But the question is, what about the rest of the industry?

[Old26]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

And I do not hope so. My friend lived (I don’t know now) near Moscow, so he either bought his son, or at school they gave his son for testing ten years ago, as he said, a Chubais nanoplate. As he said - darkness and horror. Not only that, black and white .... I went and bought a normal one, either Chinese or Korean. So I no longer hope for domestic devices

[Tochilka]

All this bullshit !! As long as Russia has no production of its own equipment for the production of microelectronics, production of its consumables and TRAINED personnel who receive a decent salary for their work, then none of these plans will happen.

[Arg107]

Quote: solzh

But the question is, what about the rest of the industry?

With the rest of the industry this and that!

[nm76]

I understand that RosNano has already universally implemented these same Naono technologies ...
Our Skolkovo cluster made an information technology breakthrough ...
Now it's up to you to optimize the electronics industry.

[Last centurion]

there is even a word about which enterprises will open, how many and when and who is responsible? if not, it will be another yotafon (reign to him ...) or the Ministry of Air Shake

[Yves762]

Here's a problem: iPhone-something-it’s too early removed! He would turn around; and show yourself from the best angles! (sarcasm)

IPhone player in melancholy
So early in the "retirement (!)
Why now stick (.?.)

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Yves762

IPhone player in melancholy
So early in the "retirement (!)
Why now stick (.?.)

Thin

[rruvim]

Tank:
Second iPhone
Man after Buddha
After all, a place in the Security Council is not given immediately ...

[prior]

Trying to reanimate a corpse is expensive ....
What development ?!
In fact, electronic industry will have to be created from scratch.

[Ross xnumx]

The details of the development strategy of the electronic industry of the Russian Federation until 2030 were announced

Development strategy? For thirty years, they did not come up with conservation strategies:

and for ten they want to develop ... Well well...
- During this period, you can develop anything ...
- And what? Can. It is only necessary to put Tolika?
- What Tolika? With Rusnano or from Rostec?
- Yes, what difference does it make? Specialists !!! Professionals !!!
- Stop! I said to develop, not to ruin ...
- Ahhhhhh ...

[leshiy076]

Until 2030 ... The main thing is not like Hadji Nasreddin’s. Or the donkey will die by then or the paddies.

[thinker]

Here's another way to find out - The development strategy of the electronic industry of Russia for the period up to 2025, adopted in August 2007, was implemented ahead of schedule, or what?

[Thrifty]

The Thinker - the strategy that the rest of the earth rested in the Bose as well as the electronic industry of Russia

[Livonetc]

The main emphasis, experts say, will initially be made to ensure that defense industry enterprises increase the share of civilian products in the field of electronics.

Conversion again?
Yes it does not work like that.

[Vasily Ponomarev]

But what is the difference between this strategy and the past?

[Elephant]

It differs only in that it is a NEW strategy! And many have forgotten about the past, with the same theme.

[spectr]

I read a little this document. Some points are concretized so that there are two options for them:
- either reduce the possibility of theft;
- either compiled for specific people and their business.

[Alf]

Quote: spectr

- either reduce the possibility of theft;

The first option is not to offer, do not tear down the basics of the System.

[Free wind]

We have a lot of things being developed and every year two new toys, money is poured in, but to no avail... remember nanotechnology, played with and forgot, ban incandescent light bulbs and produce energy-saving ones, they built a plant in Omsk, it went down the drain, it turns out the whole world switched to LEDs, they were five years late. Now here's electronics, what can you come up with to interest the buyer? They buy electrical wiring in China.

[Alf]

Quote: Free Wind

Wiring in China is being purchased.

Ha, buy the wiring .. St. George ribbons from China are coming.

[Shahno]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I want to believe in the good, I dream of a Russian smartphone to nap, in life. )))

The iPhone was already .. and then it was going to China .. In 2030, as some top Apple managers predict, there will be no smartphones anymore .. It would be interesting to know who exactly will be involved in the development of electronics, otherwise I remember one billionaire undertaking something sour ..

Well, usually serious specialists in this field are involved in the development of electronics. And executives are already moving out of their midst, or a serious entrepreneur will organize around himself a team of world-class experts in the field of electronics.
You see somewhere in the article the answer to the question of how to do this, I do not.

[Radical]

The details of the development strategy of the electronic industry of the Russian Federation until 2030 were announced

How many new industrial plants are planned to be built according to this "strategy"?

[Artunis]

So far, there are only 2 microelectronic factories, but they still need a bunch of allied equipment. But this is already not bad. Of course, we will not supply the whole world, and it won’t work out in any way. All the niches are already occupied. But here it is much more important to ensure our internal need in areas critical to the country's security. All computers made on the basis of Amer’s processors at the right time can be brought into a non-working state by a command at the iron level, and from here we have to dance.

[ccsr]

Quote: Artunis

Of course, we will not supply the whole world, and it won’t work out in any way. All the niches are already occupied. But here it is much more important to ensure our internal need in areas critical to the country's security.

That is what we should stop at, because no one will allow us in this area to the world market.

Quote: Artunis

All computers made on the basis of Amer’s processors at the right time can be brought into a non-working state by a command at the iron level, and from here we have to dance.

If you use protected facilities and without access to external networks, then it is not a fact that this can be done physically. But we must always remember this.

[Victor March 47]

It is impossible to create a competitive industry without internal competition, within Russia. And to create this with state ownership of the means of production is like pulling yourself out of a swamp by your hair. The all-pervading Chubais will ruin everything. Only someone who risks his OWN property can move something forward.

[Radical]

Quote: cniza

The implementation of the strategy begins this year with work to increase the share of domestic electronics in the domestic market.

And what has Chubais been doing in recent years, maybe it’s time to ask those who charged him?

The Guarantor instructed him, do you want to ask him?

[Alf]

Quote: Victor March 47

One example is trade. Having become private, order suddenly became there, and the seller became FIRST to say hello to the buyer.

Where? In a boutique? And if you go into Pyaterochka or Magnet? You first find this seller there .. The only network in which the seller IMMEDIATELY responds to my request and is trained on the topic is Merlin and Auchan, but here’s an uncle, both networks are French ..

[stepka_razin]

Stop, but is there anything left to optimize?)

[Alf]

Quote: stepka_razin

Stop, but is there anything left to optimize?)

Since the state allocates funds, it means that there is still something to "optimize".

[Evgeny Vinogradov_2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKzpdd48vi8

[Engineer]

For me, the fact that our electronics industry is alive at all is a miracle. Because almost every electronics engineer at some point faced the need to program. And then an apple of temptation appears in his life in the form of leaving for IT, where everything is much better.

[ccsr]

Quote: Engineer

For me, the fact that in general the electronic industry is alive is a miracle.

This miracle is based on the fact that the Soviet scientific school is still alive in our country. In "baumank" students are still given some textbooks from the 60s and 80s, which surprised me and made me happy - that means not all is lost.

[Engineer]

In "Baumank" students are still given some textbooks from the 60s-80s

If for the first two courses (maybe three) then nothing else. If for the subsequent, then this is a delayed death for engineering in Russia.

[ccsr]

Quote: Engineer

If for the first two courses (maybe three) then nothing else.

I talked about a freshman. However, there were textbooks for descriptive geometry, matanalysis, and something else from the theoretical sciences.

[Engineer]

Well then fine.
Simply, any education becomes obsolete both methodically and in terms of knowledge. Nowadays, world educational methods change every 10 years. Unfortunately, special subjects and the general methodology do not keep up with us. The Soviet groundwork here has long been exhausted.

[Arg107]

https://politexpert.net/181933-rossiya-delaet-zayavku-na-mirovoe-liderstvo-v-sfere-mikroelektroniki
https://politexpert.net/181995-v-rossii-razrabatyvayut-novuyu-tekhnologiyu-massovogo-vypuska-elektroniki?utm_source=finobzor.ru
Pasans, do not be fooled, Russia will soon flood all markets with cheap electronics. We’ll print on the printer.

[Alf]

Quote: Arg107

We’ll print on the printer.

It is, of course, wonderful, but ... where do we get this printer?

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Svarog

According to him, the reason for the collapse of the production of microelectronics was the transfer of enterprises to private hands and the withdrawal from this sphere of the state.

That’s right .. it’s starting to reach .. you still would understand that the largest enterprises, the energy sector, natural resources, alcohol - all this should belong only to the state. Then, retirement money and social obligations will appear. Science, pharmaceutical industry from the same series ..

Interesting. The whole world, even in communist China, private entrepreneurs work much more efficiently than the state. And only people like us are still drawn to state monopoly. Once already ruined all the CMEA countries. Led by the USSR. How much longer can we go on? When will you put your brains where they need to be?

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Alf

Quote: Victor March 47

One example is trade. Having become private, order suddenly became there, and the seller became FIRST to say hello to the buyer.

Where? In a boutique? And if you go into Pyaterochka or Magnet? You first find this seller there .. The only network in which the seller IMMEDIATELY responds to my request and is trained on the topic is Merlin and Auchan, but here’s an uncle, both networks are French ..

By this you prove that chain stores are not competitors, since they belong to one. And "scattering" magnets on the street is not competition. Competition begins where antimonopoly legislation works. WORKS. For example, how it works in the example - "Intel" was forcibly divided into three parts - "Atlon" and "Duron". Like it is possible to produce goods in quantities not exceeding one third of the required amount." And how it DOES NOT WORK in the example - AvtoVAZ and Moskvich. Because the state will not compete with itself.

[region58]

Quote: Victor March 47

Intel was forcibly divided into three parts - Athlone and Duron.

Athlon and Duron were manufactured by AMD, whose history begins in the late sixties, however, like Intel. Besides them, there are probably a dozen well-known CPU manufacturers in the USA, such as Motorola, Cyrix, Qualcomm and others, so there is no need to divide companies ...
Share of AMD processors in different markets:
............................... Q4 2017 Q3 2018 Q4 2018
Desktop ............ 12,0% ..... 13,0% ..... 15,8%
Server .............. 0,8% ...... 1,6% ....... 3,2%
For laptops........ 6,9%.....10,9%.....12,1%
So it's kind of not entirely "violent." This is not even taking into account the systems that are not compatible with x86.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Minus

I have a friend moved from Priors to Volkswagen Jetta in the maximum configuration .. Long matter ... Material Volkswagen!))))

It has long been a proverb that Mercedes is the pinnacle of the German car industry, and Volkswagen is its bottom.

[reservist]

VAG - the "bottom" of the German car industry?
and then where is Opel?

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

and then where is Opel

I drove a new Opel Astra for a couple of years in 2008-2010 and I must say that the car was excellent, there was not a single breakdown, even a tiny one. Before that, there was a new Focus - there I had to go to the dealer with the clutch basket and the power steering during the warranty period. So Opel was better than Ford - that's a fact.

[reservist]

the question was about VW (VAG) and Opel (FSA), and the answer was about Ford and Opel ...
are there really no differences between vw and ford?

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

the question was about VW (VAG) and Opel (FSA), and the answer was about Ford and Opel ...
are there really no differences between vw and ford?

I then understood everything from your ambiguous comment:

Quote: reservist

VAG - the "bottom" of the German car industry?
and then where is Opel?

So I think that Opel was not worse than Volkswagen, and it can hardly be considered worse than the "bottom of the German car industry", and the price / quality ratio of Opel is clearly better.

[reservist]

Quote: ccsr

... Opel's price / quality ratio is clearly better.

very controversial statement ...
look at the ratings of German ADAC for new and used cars - an exciting experience if you intend to operate a car after the warranty period ...
Opel, although in general they are not bad cars, but relatively VW, they usually lose in price faster ...

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

see German ADAC ratings for new and used cars

In fact, I have been driving Toyota Motors cars for ten years, and therefore I believe that they are better than German ones in a number of respects, including the cost of maintenance.

Quote: reservist

Opel'ya, although in general they are not bad cars,

For me, a car of this brand has not created any problems in two years, and the engine is 140 hp. for a hatchback a good bonus for those who have to travel around the city a lot. I can not say anything about Volkswagen, but the fact that golf was more expensive than an aster in equal trim levels is clear.

[reservist]

the same Corolla has an interservice mileage of 10 t.km ... and there are practically no normal non-original spare parts ...
I don’t understand how, with such input, it’s possible to win on the "maintenance cost" ... unless you "do not look" beyond the warranty period ...

Quote: ccsr

golf was more expensive than asters in equal trim levels - this is definitely

so golf will be more expensive than an aster not only when buying, but also when selling ... it's worth looking at the total cost of ownership, taking into account the purchase / sale prices and the cost of maintenance ... an affordable price tag when buying happens then "goes sideways" ...
some years ago I chose between Zafira and Turan, in the Zafira base it was cheaper, but in top-end configurations comparable to Turan it was already becoming significantly more expensive ...

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

the same Corolla has an interservice mileage of 10 t.km ... and there are practically no normal non-original spare parts ...

All Toyota interservice mileage of 10 thousand km. - at least the ones I rode on.

Quote: reservist

I don’t understand how, with such input, it’s possible to win on the "maintenance cost" ... unless you "do not look" beyond the warranty period ...

I compared the cost of servicing from different manufacturers with 10 and 15 thousandth mileage intervals, and it turned out that those who are less frequently serviced do not get any benefits - maybe they only save on oil, but hardly on other consumables. As for the warranty period, I left it, though I never exceeded 100 thousand for the entire period of operation.

Quote: reservist

golf will be more expensive than asters, not only when buying, but also when selling ... it’s worth looking at the total cost of ownership, taking into account purchase / sale prices and the cost of maintenance ...

After 4-5 years of operation in our conditions, this value is unlikely to be significant.
This is from my personal experience, though I sold cars to my friends, and cheaper than the market price.

Quote: reservist

some number of years ago I chose between zafira and turan, in the database zafira was cheaper,

This is familiar to me, because you always look at the package bundle when buying, so as not to pay extra money for an option that is not needed. But when buying used cars they still look for a year - you yourself probably know what tricks sellers use.

[reservist]

Quote: ccsr

I compared the cost of service from different manufacturers with 10 and 15 thousandth mileage intervals

so there are interservice and 20 and 30 thousand km ...
the truth is not the fact that in our conditions 30 tkm is the optimal figure ...

Quote: ccsr

After 4-5 years of operation in our conditions, this value is unlikely to be significant.

for the sake of interest, I looked at the Automotive News 2015 auto prices:
aster - from 500 to 700 thousand
golf - from 700 to 900 thousand
It became interesting how much they ask for new ones - but on the off.sites I did not find either aster or golf :(

Quote: ccsr

... you look at the package bundle when buying, so as not to pay extra money for an option that is not needed.

it was a case when a car was just chosen according to the required characteristics / options ... the zafira turned out expensive ... the 5th Mazda is small relative to the same zafira, the Toyota verso is relatively expensive to maintain ...

something brought us completely offtopic ...
especially since everyone will still ride on what suits his conditions / capabilities better ...

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

so there are interservice and 20 and 30 thousand km ...

This is the first time I've heard of it - I've only encountered 10 and 15 thousand, although it was stipulated that this was for our conditions, starting with Soviet Zhiguli and ending with cars of a different class.

Quote: reservist

for the sake of interest, I looked at the Automotive News 2015 auto prices:
aster - from 500 to 700 thousand
golf - from 700 to 900 thousand

Quite possibly, I really have not been interested in this for a long time, but I remember that when I compared different models from the "golf" class more than fifteen years ago, our focus was the cheapest, and the Volkswagen golf was the most expensive. This is why I chose aster when I had to change focus, and mainly looked at the specs and price.

Quote: reservist

something brought us completely offtopic ...

So this trend is visible in many areas of production that Western companies have created here. I had a Camry assembled by us, and for four years there was not a single breakdown, not even a single light bulb burned out, so ours work at the highest level. And what they are made of, that is another question.

[reservist]

about the service interval in our conditions:
www.zr.ru/content/articles/746092-uvelichatsya-li-intervaly-mezhdu/
in Europe there are also 30t.km, but this is not about our fuel ...

I generally agree with the opinion that the increased interval of interservice maintenance is a trick of marketers ...
but again, nothing prevents you from changing the oil yourself in the middle of the "long" interval ...

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

I generally agree with the opinion that the increased interval of interservice maintenance is a trick of marketers ...

I also think that this is a ploy, and from my own experience I think that it is unlikely to benefit the car itself.

but again, nothing prevents you from changing the oil yourself in the middle of the "long" interval ...

Of course, this is ABC for beginners - the more often you change the oil, the less money you spend on engine repairs. I realized this when I once bought our VAZ-21011 from a German with a hundred thousand kilometers on the clock in the early nineties. The German was very conscientious, and I did not spare money on oil, having bought it there. When I sold this car after 160 thousand kilometers, the buyers did not believe me that I did not change anything in the engine, because no matter how much they revved the engine or looked into the exhaust, the engine worked like new, without a hint that the oil was burning somewhere or something was knocking.
In general, I am a supporter of the idea that 10 thousand is a completely acceptable interval for car enthusiasts, especially if there are authorized dealer service centers nearby, which guarantee good service, especially if these are leading manufacturers.

[reservist]

Quote: ccsr

... 10 thousand. This is quite an acceptable interval for motorists

I put on the fact that the burgher rolling for 3 years for almost 200 thousand km will still choose a TO interval of 30 thousand (in Germany / France, etc. VW and some other brands have this, provided that there is a longlife oil supply ), and we probably would have found the same if we had such a thing available ...

[ccsr]

Quote: reservist

I put on the fact that the burgher rolling over 3 years for almost 200 thousand km will still choose a TO interval of 30 thousand

I bought a car from the owner after the reunification of Germany - the East Germans had a slightly different attitude to technology, they looked more like us in this regard.

Quote: reservist

Yes, and we probably would have found the same ones if this were available ...

I think most of us would prefer such an interval, but I, as a person with an understanding of technology, would still consider such a mileage excessive, and would change the oil at least after 15 thousand. But this is my purely personal opinion, which is why I have never driven more than 100 thousand in one car, so as not to spend extra money on spare parts.

[reservist]

and I mean the same thing, if a new car, then to the official once every 30 thousand, and the oil can be changed once every 10 thousand ...

[iouris]

... and the strategy lies in trying to establish supplies from China.

[Artunis]

Well, finally something moved forward (and, moreover, immediately with the advent of the new government)! Borisov recently made a scandal in the previous government - for 3 years they did not sign documents on financing the construction of 2 factories for the production of microelectronics, it looked like conscious sabotage! After all, there are worthy developments, and they have to be produced in China! To build their plants, you need a lot of money - billions and not rubles, however. You can scamper about etaphones as much as you like (and this is certainly true), but the ice seems to have broken!

[Radical]

Quote: Artunis

So far, there are only 2 microelectronic factories, but they still need a bunch of allied equipment. But this is already not bad. Of course, we will not supply the whole world, and it won’t work out in any way. All the niches are already occupied. But here it is much more important to ensure our internal need in areas critical to the country's security. All computers made on the basis of Amer’s processors at the right time can be brought into a non-working state by a command at the iron level, and from here we have to dance.

I did not understand from your comment - are there 2 factories that are "available" now, or are they planned to be built? Then let us know where their location and terms of delivery-acceptance.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: region58

Quote: Victor March 47

Intel was forcibly divided into three parts - Athlone and Duron.

Athlon and Duron were manufactured by AMD, whose history begins in the late sixties, however, like Intel. Besides them, there are probably a dozen well-known CPU manufacturers in the USA, such as Motorola, Cyrix, Qualcomm and others, so there is no need to divide companies ...
Share of AMD processors in different markets:
............................... Q4 2017 Q3 2018 Q4 2018
Desktop ............ 12,0% ..... 13,0% ..... 15,8%
Server .............. 0,8% ...... 1,6% ....... 3,2%
For laptops........ 6,9%.....10,9%.....12,1%
So it's kind of not entirely "violent." This is not even taking into account the systems that are not compatible with x86.

This is exactly what I meant. And an example of such FORCIBLE introduction of competition is the support of the pyramid builder-swindler Elon Musk, non-resistance to the creation of a number of rocket-building corporations by the budget. The state incurs colossal expenses in the name of implementing the doctrine of fighting monopoly. We are going the other way. Hence the lice.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: ccsr

As far as I know, Samsung, the world's largest manufacturer of TVs and monitors, has long since opened a plant in the Kaluga Region.

And this is right. Right for us and for the corporation itself. Business goes where the profit is higher. If in the country of registration of the company the profit is limited by a non-linear tax scale and it is impossible to have a profit higher than 10%, then in another country, for example, Russia, the profit is not limited by ANYTHING. The absence of competition and the state policy of a flat tax scale allows having ANY profit. It is limited only by the capabilities of the internal market of Russia. EXTREMELY cheap raw materials, energy, labor. The absence of even minimal insurance social laws. Why not 400%? For a bribe to a local party comrade, you can build a factory in one year, first a screwdriver factory, then one that produces all sorts of small things. Intellectual resource things will NEVER be transferred to us for production. Why create competition for yourself?

[Victor March 47]

Quote: reservist

VAG - the "bottom" of the German car industry?
and then where is Opel?

And he is in Russia. For there is no place for him in normal.

[ccsr]

Quote: Victor March 47

And he is in Russia.

I doubt it:

Opel plans to return to the Russian market four years after leaving. This is stated in the message of the French concern PSA Group, which owns Opel. The brand left the Russian market in 2015 due to the unfolding crisis and the weakening ruble, because of which brand cars lost to competitors.