A look from the West: new Russian frigates challenge entire fleets


So far, the Russian Federation has not yet begun construction of destroyers or cruisers, but the ambitious program of the Russians provides for the laying of frigates of the 22350 Admiral Gorshkov class according to a modified project. These ships are able to change the balance of power in the oceans. This view is shared by the Western edition of Military Watch.


Battle power akin to cruisers


The Russian Navy plans to put into operation a heavy class frigate, which has matched by weight to the destroyer category, the 7000-ton 22350M

- writes Military Watch.

Initially, the Gorshkovs had 72 vertical launchers, their upgraded version will receive 120 launchers, "which gives it more firepower compared to Arleigh Burke-class destroyers that carry 90 or 96 launchers, depending on the particular variant."

The new Russian frigates will be the most heavily armed surface warships in the world, except for cruisers of the Ticonderoga type, which have a slight advantage of 122 cells, or of the Kirov class

- notes the designated publication, indicating that the Ticonderoga, the heaviest combat surface ship in the West with a displacement of almost 10 thousand tons, will have only 1,7% more launch cells.

At the same time, Military Watch indicates that, although the frigate’s firepower is comparable to that of American cruisers, its endurance is significantly lower. This means that he will not be able to be present at sea for a long time and is not quite suitable for long-range power projection operations.


Ticonderoga


The superiority of Russian missiles


According to the publication, American cruisers and destroyers are armed with Harpoon missiles, which fly at subsonic speeds below Mach 0,8 and are limited to a range of just over 350 km. At the same time, Russian anti-ship missiles P-800 [Onyx] and Caliber have warheads that are about twice as heavy. This circumstance significantly enhances the firepower of the ships of the Russian Federation, not to mention the huge superiority of Russian missiles in speed, range and maneuverability.

The advantage of Russian surface ships has become overwhelming since Russia began to use the Zircon hypersonic cruise missile in December 2019.

- indicates the publication.

The missile is capable of hitting targets at ranges of more than 1000 km, is extremely maneuverable and has a speed of about 9 Machs, which makes it impossible to intercept it. Its payload exceeds the Harpoon by 37-81%.

These missiles will become the key to the ability of Russian frigates to project naval power and challenge much heavier warships and the whole fleetsseveral times their size

- concludes Military Watch.

Photos used:
http://zonwar.ru/
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  1. Vladimir_2U 24 January 2020 04: 17 New
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    Autoor !! The first photo is not Ticonderoga !! Type Halifax Canadian trough.
    1. Vladimir_2U 24 January 2020 04: 21 New
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      Here is tiki
      . Если это первое фото из Military Watch, то иксперды там на уровне "Работницы", при всём уважении к славному прошлому этого журнала.
      1. Aerodrome 24 January 2020 04: 28 New
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        Here is tiki
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Autoor !! The first photo is not Ticonderoga !! Type Halifax Canadian trough.
        1. Hunter 2 24 January 2020 04: 49 New
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          Unfortunately, the Super Gorshkovs are so far only on paper. Well, I really want to see them in metal with the Andreevsky Flag raised. I think even at the launching ceremony - I’ll fly with the Son ... oh, dreams.
          The project is certainly interesting - if implemented, Russia will finally build the First Rank Ship on its own ... we are waiting for this day - the whole recent history of Russia! Well, for 22350 M - ugh, so as not to jinx it. drinks
          A detailed article about 22350M, in the VO from 15.05.2019 hi.
          1. Zhan 24 January 2020 07: 18 New
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            Quote: Hunter 2
            Unfortunately, the Super Gorshkovs are so far only on paper. Well, I really want to see them in metal with the Andreevsky Flag raised. I think even at the launching ceremony - I’ll fly with the Son ... oh, dreams.
            The project is certainly interesting - if implemented, Russia will finally build the First Rank Ship on its own ... we are waiting for this day - the whole recent history of Russia! Well, for 22350 M - ugh, so as not to jinx it. drinks
            A detailed article about 22350M, in the VO from 15.05.2019 hi.

            And if there were still a GEM in the form of an atomic reactor, he would not have had a price ..
            1. 5-9
              5-9 24 January 2020 07: 43 New
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              here about the price - you are sure ....
            2. Hermit21 24 January 2020 09: 13 New
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              They have enough gas turbines. YaEU will be at cruisers pr. 23560
            3. NEXUS 24 January 2020 09: 29 New
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              Quote: Zhan
              And if there were still a GEM in the form of an atomic reactor, he would not have had a price ..

              This is already talking about the destroyer Leader, whose tab is even further than the Super-Gorshkov bookmark.
            4. shonsu 24 January 2020 11: 20 New
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              Why does he need a reactor with a displacement of 7000?
            5. Alexey G 24 January 2020 22: 29 New
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              And also put him zircon in the mines and a new turntable aft !!!
            6. silver_roman 25 January 2020 15: 10 New
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              he doesn’t need any nuclear reactor. Do you understand how much it increases the cost of operation and maintenance of the vessel? you need a large batch of ships, and if they put the nuclear power plant, then again a couple of ships will be lowered and that's it
          2. silver_roman 25 January 2020 15: 08 New
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            that 22350m, that Zircon is not yet in service. Nothing is clear with the rocket. What the higher ranks say about “they’ve almost already taken ....” so we have been accepting the Su-2015 since 57.
        2. Nikolai Korovin 26 January 2020 00: 10 New
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          Is this ship exactly superior to the entire Black Sea Fleet? Proofs to the studio, please!
      2. Vladimir_2U 24 January 2020 04: 28 New
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        Fuh, replaced the photo.
      3. Chigi 24 January 2020 04: 47 New
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        При всем уважении, я не "морской человек", но не наблюдаю разницы между фото в статье и вашим фото. Или уже в статье фото обновили?
        1. Vladimir_2U 24 January 2020 05: 06 New
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          Quote: Chigi
          Or have photos already been updated in the article?

          Exactly
      4. shonsu 24 January 2020 11: 11 New
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        What's the difference?
    2. Aerodrome 24 January 2020 04: 31 New
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      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Autoor !! The first photo is not Ticonderoga !! Type Halifax Canadian trough.

      in the first photo, in general, our frigate.
      1. Vladimir_2U 24 January 2020 04: 32 New
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        Exactly, there was a Canadian in the second photo, but quickly changed.
    3. Private-K 24 January 2020 10: 53 New
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      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The first photo is not Ticonderoga !! Type Halifax Canadian trough.

      Both are ugly.
    4. Alexander Suvorov 24 January 2020 12: 38 New
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      Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
      Autoor !! The first photo is not Ticonderoga !! Type Halifax Canadian trough.
      Vladimir hi with all due respect, the first photo is a frigate of the Russian Navy "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov". And in the second photo there is just "Ticonderoga", only some kind of shabby.
    5. Looking for 24 January 2020 17: 33 New
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      Yes. You are definitely an "expert." Vladimir.
      1. Vladimir_2U 24 January 2020 17: 42 New
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        At the time of publication of the article, on the site of the photo "Ticonderoga" was a photo of "Halifax", then it was changed, very quickly. Whose fault it was, the site’s editors, or Military Watch, I don’t know, but he was.
    6. saylor1971 24 January 2020 20: 36 New
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      This is a Ticonderoga CG-63 Cowpens URO cruiser.
    7. Bogatyrev 25 January 2020 01: 16 New
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      Not. It.
      Galya, here
      1. Vladimir_2U 25 January 2020 05: 53 New
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        It was this photo that was at the time of the publication of the article.
  2. rocket757 24 January 2020 05: 05 New
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    The whole point of the topic, the photo is not that ... was it?
    Who is there and who is throwing it? One planned frigate, the entire "gang" of striped destroyers - cruisers ???
    Shaw for nonsense ???
    1. Aerodrome 24 January 2020 05: 27 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      The whole point of the topic, the photo is not that ... was it?
      Who is there and who is throwing it? One planned frigate, the entire "gang" of striped destroyers - cruisers ???
      Shaw for nonsense ???

      you have no patriotism .... lol
      1. rocket757 24 January 2020 07: 10 New
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        Quote: Aerodrome
        you have no patriotism ....

        Any PATRIOTISM, not diluted with a certain amount of cynicism, skepticism, HEALTH, is doomed to .... well, let’s say, NUMEROUS errors and does more harm than good!
        This is my opinion. Who does not agree, drive the cons.
    2. Hunter 2 24 January 2020 05: 36 New
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      It is planned to build 12 Frigates 22350M! hi
      Let's see how much they perform in metal and not on paper!
      1. rocket757 24 January 2020 07: 12 New
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        Quote: Hunter 2
        . in metal .

        That's right! Dreams are dreams, but, we will remain realistic!
      2. kjhg 24 January 2020 13: 08 New
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        Quote: Hunter 2
        It is planned to build 12 Frigates 22350M!

        Do you believe it yourself? This is from the same opera where about 2300 Armat and 55 Su-57 were sung by 2020
        1. bayard 24 January 2020 20: 11 New
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          Quote: kjhg
          This is from the same opera where about 2300 Armat and 55 Su-57 were sung by 2020

          Зачем Вам 2300 "Армат" ? Вы уверены , что понимаете то , чего хотите ? Зачем сырой , не освоенный в войсках танк , вы хоть представляете гору проблем с логистикой , обслуживанием , ремонтом , запчастями ? Решение о поставках в войска Т-72В3 гораздо разумней , возобновление поставок Т-90 новой модификации - тоже . Как и поставки модернизированных Т-80 . Т-72 и Т-80 полно на базах хранения с абсолютно неизрасходованным ресурсом . Их - тысячи . И их модернизация гораздо дешевле строительства новых . А их боевые возможностей вполне достаточно для выполнения любых БЗ .
          T-14 should be a breakthrough in a new quality with a wide margin in combat capabilities. Otherwise, it will simply be a more expensive, complex (in all respects) and large (!) Tank with about the same BV.
          The same can be said about the Su-57 - the aircraft must be DONE.
          Quote: kjhg
          It is planned to build 12 Frigates 22350M!

          Do you believe it yourself?

          And here, in what you were deceived? A year ago, on the tab of two 22350+ frigates and two BDKs, it was announced by the president that the 22350 series would be completed (8 pieces) and will continue in the form of an upgraded version of the 22350M, which is currently being worked on (!) On the project. They promise by the end of this year.
          Project!
          And immediately after its adoption - the beginning of bookmarks.
          GEMs for the 22350M are being prepared.
          Initially, it was announced the construction of 18 22350M, later specified 12 pcs. plus an option for another 6.
          And what is there not to believe in? Last year, 2 22350+ buildings were laid, this year - two more, in the spring.
          Or are you still crying about the suspension of programs for 5 years?
          Так сто раз уже перетёрли - ГЭУ для русских кораблей делали в Николаеве ! После 2014 г. форсировали организацию их производства в России . Это сложное и специфичное производство . И первые ГЭУ уже пошли на ССЗ .
          Since last year .
          Therefore, last year they resumed laying new ships.

          You still cry that the MS-21 did not go on time in time.
          I hope that it is not necessary to explain on it, why is it only in THIS year that it goes to the series?

          И ещё , возвращаясь к "Армате" - о 2300 шт. говорили на УВЗ . Это были их хотелки ! Кто при капитализме о больших заказах не мечтает ? Вот мечтали и они .
          And they carried it - journalists.
          1. Ezekiel 25 January 2020 02: 26 New
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            Quote: bayard
            So already ground a hundred times - GEM for the Russian ships did in Nikolaev! After 2014, they forced the organization of their production in Russia. This is a complex and specific production. And the first power plants have already gone to the GCC. Since last year.

            So that's what the conversation is about, actually. Why are we still not in Nikolaev? Who leaked New Russia?
            Why is the Russian people still divided? And who is personally to blame for this? am
            Please do not submit candidacies for Serdyukov, Manturov and Rogozin!
            1. bayard 25 January 2020 03: 51 New
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              Quote: Ezekiel
              Why are we still not in Nikolaev? Who leaked New Russia?

              It was definitely not me !!! smile
              Moreover, I myself live in Donetsk and my greatest desire remains the return of Russia to its former natural borders.
              Why didn’t they liberate the whole Southeast?
              Just not enough strength.
              On that moment .
              There was no guarantee that everything would turn out as smoothly and without casualties as in the Crimea.
              And there were legitimate fears that NATO would take the side of the Kiev junta. And then Russia didn’t have enough troops in the European part of the country, and ALL heavy weapons were based and stored exclusively (!) Outside the Urals.
              But the Airborne Forces alone might not be enough ... if NATO blended in.
              The perimeter was not closed by SPRN stations.
              We could just miss a sudden blow from an undisclosed direction - we would simply not see it.
              The rearmament of the army was only just beginning, new types of weapons were just beginning to arrive, they were just beginning to be mastered by the troops and were in insufficient numbers.
              It was necessary to carry out the necessary measures - to relocate and deploy troops in the European part of the country (with warehouses, parks, barracks, training grounds, etc.), update the aircraft fleet, complete the re-equipment of missile brigades at the Iskanders, build a contour of SPRN stations, and bring troops into tone regular exercises, sudden inspections and gatherings of reservists ... morally and psychologically prepare the country's population for a very likely war ...

              In short, then - in 2014, it didn’t ...
              It's a pity . hi
              1. Alex Nevs 25 January 2020 09: 19 New
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                Не было задачи такой(я про юговосток). Сил было предостаточно. Обстановка такая. Все должно быть в меру. Мариуполь уже был в кольце-бандеровцев только пятки сверкали. Ан нет, откатили назад.И нАТО тут не причем. Та нАТО - сейчас банда гопников. Но при серьезном противнике начинается "ми пащютили". Результат-ЛНР и ДНР. И нАТО сморкнулось себе в рубаху. За Крым вообще молчу-ната в штаны свои наклала. А котловые вайска вальцмана только в СКАЧКАХ малаццы.
                1. bayard 25 January 2020 12: 37 New
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                  The breakthrough to Mariupol began on September 1, 2014.
                  On the night of September 2–3, Poroshenko phoned Lukashenka with a request to arrange urgent negotiations with Putin.
                  September 4 negotiations began.
                  On September 5, the Minsk agreements were concluded.
                  .... first.
                  In NATO, of course, the army is not an ice, but in 2014 no one would have asked them - they would have dragged them in and wouldn’t have time.
                  Some US and NATO troops in Ukraine have been from the very coup (special forces - Polish, English ... American Apache helicopters (and not only) were based in the Guards - near Dnepropetrovsk in the summer of 2014, and the airfield at Maisky was the airfield.
                  I personally saw English, Polish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Latvian, German and other special forces in a rather large number during the exchange of prisoners of war (I returned from captivity). Particularly surprised by the abundance of English special forces.
                  This is not an intra-Ukrainian conflict.
                  Not the usual involvement of interested parties in a conflict.
                  This is an analogue of the Crusades, if you will, the jihad of the Western countries against Russia. And Ukraine - the former western part of It - is the outskirts.
                  Therefore, the war does not end.
                  And it will not end.
                  Not for that and it began.
                  And Russia cannot be avoided ... but it can be delayed. What is being done.
                  1. Karen 25 January 2020 12: 58 New
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                    Quote: bayard
                    Particularly surprised by the abundance of English special forces.

                    No wonder ... It was already clear when the Yugoslavia was defeated, and the abundance of English special teams that were engaged in the shooting of Serbian iconic personnel ... It was clear that the future of the carriers of pan-Slavism was being destroyed ...
                    Quote: bayard
                    Therefore, the war does not end.
                    And it will not end.
                    Not for that and it began.
                    And Russia cannot be avoided ... but it can be delayed. What is being done.

                    And the coherence of the Washington Kagal and the Kremlin kibbutz to restore the Khazaria is not visible?
                  2. Alex Nevs 25 January 2020 18: 47 New
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                    A minus and you and me noticed? Jump horses and here laughing Vyalikia The boiler houses of Vaiska valtsmana also made their way here. It’s not for them to scoop-rob with children and old people. I have long said it is inevitable. Climb a hundred pounds - for robbing other countries, the Russian Federation does not give (MarxLenin). About the negotiations, this is back and forth. But it is not wise to tear off a large piece with a banal subsidized ballast. It’s enough to keep an “expensive glow”. And the greater part of the balance (subsidies) of the horses, and there will be a long and very sad. Now everything and everything is immediately transformed into BABY !!! From there and dance.
                2. ANB
                  ANB 26 January 2020 00: 55 New
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                  . Мариуполь уже был в кольце-бандеровцев только пятки сверкали. Ан нет, откатили назад.

                  Mariupol would have to be fed somehow. And as a port, they would immediately block it. He is now barely breathing. And where to put the people from it?
                  PS. This is a purely personal opinion and does not claim to be the ultimate truth.
                  1. bayard 26 January 2020 01: 59 New
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                    Why is your talk exclusively about Mariupol? If they hadn’t given the Stop command ... at the time of such a team, advanced patrols were already in the south of Zaporizhzhya region. and could well continue the movement, growing fresh forces from the local who were waiting for us. And then - Kherson, Nikolaev, Odessa.
                    After all, it was about the liberation of All Ukraine / Little Russia from the Bandera fascist yoke. In the ranks of the defenders of the DPR there were many immigrants from those regions. And in the regions they were waiting for release.
                    If it’s good and with the effect of aftertaste, then we had to act as quickly as in the Crimea. For several months in a row the junta in Kiev kept planes with warmed engines - in case of urgent evacuation. But it seems that the Kremlin didn’t really know about the mood and readiness of the Ukrainian population, getting used to resolve issues through agreements with the “elites”.
                    That's agreed .
                    Russia and Crimea still had to "digest" ...
                    And the fleet (returning to the topic of the article) as a result was left without a power plant for new ships, without engines (for some time) for airplanes and helicopters, and with broken ties of industrial cooperation in many industries.

                    But the main reason is THEN RUSSIA WAS NOT READY to solve such problems quickly and decisively.
                    Now the situation is different and Russia is already capable of much.
                    The main thing is WILL.
                    1. ANB
                      ANB 26 January 2020 02: 15 New
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                      . Хунта в Киеве несколько месяцев кряду самолёты с прогретыми двигателями держала - на случай срочной эвакуации . Но похоже в Кремле не очень-то знали о настроениях и готовности населения Украины

                      It is somehow doubtful, given the fact that there is state intelligence and in the Armed Forces then there were a bunch of pro-Russian people.
                      That is, you know about it, but you did not know about it in the Kremlin.
                      PS. Doubt is not in your information, but in the fact that Putin does not know it.
                      1. bayard 26 January 2020 02: 40 New
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                        The main reason was nevertheless the unpreparedness of Russia itself for such actions. The Olympics have just passed, on which much has been put (to show Russia the face - modern, attractive, creative), and here - brutal actions to join (otherwise it was impossible) Ukraine ...
                        But there was still a chance.
                        And now he is there again. Russia is in a completely different quality and strength, and if Kiev gives rise again (attack on the Donbass, rejection of the Minsk agreements, etc.), we must act quickly and decisively - cutting this Gordian Knot.
                        Another option is a new Yalta with a redistribution of spheres of influence. If Trump goes for it, the rest will go.
                        And urgently correct everything that the liberal government has done for the past few years - the people are angry and no longer believe anyone. Words alone are not enough - we need deeds, deeds for the benefit of the very people, which for the liberals is superfluous.
                    2. Alex Nevs 26 January 2020 09: 17 New
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                      Это называется "разведка боем" правда в очень растянутом масштабе времени - ибо надо больше было проявлять свое СОЗНАНИЕ местному населению. Сейчас наступило время ПРОЯВЛЕНИЯ осознанных действий - или туда или сюда. Холопа надо подталкивать не силой а самосознанием.Чего и ожидаем- долго ...ожидаем.
                  2. Alex Nevs 26 January 2020 09: 12 New
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                    This was clarified back in the year 15. It’s hardly the word breathing.
              2. Ezekiel 26 January 2020 01: 36 New
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                Quote: bayard
                Why didn’t they liberate the whole Southeast?
                Just not enough strength.

                I can not agree with you. There were plenty of forces and means. The enthusiasm of the people, volunteers was enough. And there was a revolutionary situation, there was a big upsurge of the people. Strelkov spoke about this and wrote El-Murid. El-Murid generally had an excellent analysis of the situation. He had to use the situation and pump it, instead the situation was ingloriously and mediocre ... sad
                The incompetence and stupidity of our power is simply amazing. Instead of quick and decisive action in the Donbass, for some reason, they entered a completely unnecessary war in Syria. They strangled all the fighters and national leaders of Donbass, one Bezler managed to get to the Crimea ... The security guard is the secret police - she can only "keep and not let"
                If Bismarck had also scored at a decisive moment, a united Germany would still not have been.
                I think that over the past five years, Neprichchekin is a big minus for the Donbass and New Russia. am
                1. ANB
                  ANB 26 January 2020 02: 09 New
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                  No, not in readiness it was. It smells of turbidity from these events.
                  Even it seems to me that it was not just that Putin asked not to hold a referendum, although before that he hinted that Donbass and Novorossia were waiting for Crimea. And these are not sanctions, they were expected for Crimea anyway.
                  Substantial help went when it became clear that there would be a massacre.
                  And before that, events in the Donbass were not particularly needed for Putin.
                  And it all started in Donetsk as it is not very clean. I have a friend from Donetsk. I really didn’t understand anything or didn’t want to say anything, but said that they were lying on both sides.
                  1. bayard 26 January 2020 02: 57 New
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                    The turbidity in Donetsk became even greater after the recall of Strelkov and Beard. Just when it all started, there were no obvious leaders, everything was spontaneous and reactive - this was not a preparation from the point of view of the reaction and actions of the rebellious people (and I saw it from the inside), but there were games of oligarchs with secret bidding about the fate of their assets. A lot of processes overlap ...
                    And Putin, you are right, the uprising in the Donbass was not necessary and there was a sincere desire to drain it before the shedding of blood.
                    That's just the people who saw the actions of Russia in the Crimea could not explain this - they are after all the same Russian as the Crimeans. And they also wanted to restore a single state with Russia. Or at worst - overthrowing the power of usurpers and returning Ukraine to the status of a friendly and union state of Russia.
                    The best hopes and hopes then revived.
                    And for this, people were ready to fight.
                    For Fascism itself never leaves - it must be defeated.
                    And there would not be a single leader / authority who would say the opposite to people, and people would accept it.
                    People themselves were looking for leaders, leaders, commanders.
                    And they found.
                    But in a capitalist, read - crowd society, it is not accepted. Therefore, after the recall of the Russians, the moral and ethical situation deteriorated sharply. Because we agreed on the backs of people and at their expense.
                    Including due to their lives.
                    1. ANB
                      ANB 26 January 2020 11: 53 New
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                      I have thoughts about these events. But long, you need to dial on a computer. Although there is a mini-volume. Well, you need to collect the invoice, so as not to write anyhow.
                2. bayard 26 January 2020 02: 15 New
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                  If only domestic players took part in the civil conflict of Ukraine, then perhaps yes, it was possible to download, raise people to fight against fascism - the genetic code would work (it worked), but from the very beginning (and long before), the conflict was accepted Western intelligence services of a number of states took part, were present by the forces of their special forces and PMCs even before the coup and were ready to intervene with the main forces, in case of Russian intervention.
                  And then they were not afraid of Russia.
                  It took time and a demonstration of STRENGTH to emerge a healing fear and even the beginnings of sanity.
                  - In the Donbass (albeit limitedly by the hands of the Donetsk and Lugansk militias).
                  - In Syria (which many at first perceived as a failed adventure).
                  - In Venezuela, Africa, Libya
                  - In ongoing exercises, surprise checks, demonstrations of new weapons, the deployment of armies and corps in the Western direction ...

                  And before they were not afraid of Russia.
                  And they could decide on any stupidity.
                  Moreover, they directly provoked Russia to direct intervention. because they had an algorithm ready for this case. But they were not given a chance.
                  It looks like it was a gambit.
                  And the party is far from finished.
                  Perhaps it is only truly beginning.
                  1. Ezekiel 26 January 2020 02: 46 New
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                    Quote: bayard
                    And before they were not afraid of Russia.
                    And they could decide on any stupidity.
                    Moreover, they directly provoked Russia to direct intervention. because they had an algorithm ready for this case. But they were not given a chance.
                    And the party is far from finished.
                    Perhaps it is only truly beginning.

                    This quote is the concentrate of our propaganda on this subject. All arguments of the authorities justify their own mediocrity and a complete loss of the situation.
                    We already have a result - now and in the future the situation will be worse for us. A convenient moment has been missed and I believe it will never happen again.
                    Russia wasn’t particularly afraid of it before, and I believe that it’s not particularly right now. There is nothing that something manifests itself and appears during these 5 years of fundamentally new. A lot of noise is yes, but in reality - no.
                    I do not consider Zioia as a positive phenomenon, because it is pretty pointless to us.
                    I do not see options, unfortunately. The situation is now stalemate, and given the end of the Nord Stream 2 pipe, 150 km under water from the German coast, it’s also full of irony ...
                    1. bayard 26 January 2020 12: 58 New
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                      Quote: Ezekiel
                      We already have a result - now and in the future the situation will be worse for us.

                      In our case, the result is yet to come, but what was just a stage. I think new results will need to wait in May. And there will be more convenient cases.
                      Many staffing arrangements (government and more) were in effect until 2020. Now the main thing is amendments to the Constitution on the primacy of Russian legislation over “international”, only then it will be possible to correct the shoals of the former government pension reform, increased taxes, etc., adopted under the pressure of decisions of the World Bank and the IMF (under current law, Russia is obliged (! ) was to carry out all this dregs). Therefore, a change of government and emergency measures to amend the Constitution.
                  2. ANB
                    ANB 26 January 2020 11: 55 New
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                    So I got the opinion that Russia was pushed into Ukraine by the Donbass.
                    1. bayard 26 January 2020 14: 03 New
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                      It seems that Putin knew about this, and therefore asked to abstain from the referendum. Only on the ground in the heat of those events it was not at all obvious for people, and that is why the junta arranged such a crazy genocide of its own people - it tried to put Putin in tsuzwang. Then we all went around the edge.
                      But now the situation has changed, and in case of escalation, the Gordian knot can, must and must be cut.
                3. Alex Nevs 26 January 2020 09: 22 New
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                  There were enough forces and means. I agree. The situation of the worldview of the population did not allow. If VostokDNRLNR rose, then they expected there. With Syria, Oy does not agree. And Putin’s team wasn’t just ordinary people. There were a lot of questions with the fighters. Some of the questions disappeared, some still don’t have enough data to analyze. And the Internet trash is garbage.
      3. Looking for 24 January 2020 17: 40 New
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        in general, it’s an “expensive testicle for Christ’s day." Or these "...." from Moscow Region will think. That they will stand still. while we will build these. still "utopian". ships?
    3. Angelo Provolone 24 January 2020 07: 01 New
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      The main thing in this article is to lick the authorities. Still on paper, but so good!
      1. Hunter 2 24 January 2020 07: 09 New
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        Quote: Angelo Provolone
        The main thing in this article is to lick the authorities. Still on paper, but so good!

        Military Watch - Licked the Power? fool However - I didn’t even think about respecting Our Power there! fellow
      2. rocket757 24 January 2020 07: 15 New
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        Quote: Angelo Provolone
        The main thing in this article is

        The article has a TITLE .... nothing more is noticeable.
        Quoting, as they say \ rave there, does not bear any practical benefit .... by joke, most often.
        On the other hand, we are greeted in the morning by JOKES! Fun.
    4. NEXUS 24 January 2020 09: 39 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      One planned frigate, the entire "gang" of striped destroyers - cruisers ???
      Shaw for nonsense ???

      Sohu was puzzled by the question of what it was about that Super-Gorshkof, which someday would be built, had more PUs than their destroyers, and as much, practically, as the Ticonderoga cruisers.
      As if not in Feng Shui, in their opinion all of this, and therefore they are zealously chasing the horse in a vacuum, on this subject. Apparently "the curses of the Russian intoxicate someone's intended." fellow
      1. rocket757 24 January 2020 10: 39 New
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        If you recall ... in the USSR, the military units of the fleet were also armed to the eyeballs. V.h. due to the fact that there were not many of them, I had to walk in a non-friendly environment, so it was logical to have a lot of weapons and different things. That was the need.
        1. NEXUS 24 January 2020 10: 45 New
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          Quote: rocket757
          If you recall ... in the USSR, the military units of the fleet were also armed to the eyeballs.

          On the one hand, Soviet and Russian surface warships are often the most armed in their classes, but this is both good and bad. The effectiveness of a combat unit is primarily in balance, and not in the quantity of weapons.
          1. rocket757 24 January 2020 11: 01 New
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            Quote: NEXUS
            The effectiveness of a combat unit is primarily in balance

            This is of course a dream, but necessity often overpowers everything else.
          2. Kurare 24 January 2020 11: 19 New
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            Quote: NEXUS
            The effectiveness of a combat unit is primarily in balance, and not in the quantity of weapons.

            It’s like in the English proverb: if it is planned to install 8 guns on the ship, and put 10, they will shoot only 6. Everything should be in balance.
    5. Bogatyrev 26 January 2020 13: 30 New
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      How to say.
      More than a hundred Zircons and the likelihood of such a sudden strike can make a whole fleet leave the water area in case of escalation.
      It is clear that at the beginning of firing it will immediately rattle in minutes for airplanes.
      But before the start - it can greatly hinder the deployment of AUG for example in the Mediterranean Sea or the Persian Gulf.
      In general, in the conditions of some kind of "cold" war, even one such ship could become a strong deterrent.
      1. rocket757 26 January 2020 13: 53 New
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        They themselves noted that they can quickly, suddenly, grunt. Moreover, the times of chivalry are long gone, no one will be warned, no one will be shattered!
        We come to the obvious again, powerful strike units must either be hidden or guarded from all sides! And these are completely different numbers, plans, saturation of the fleet with the corresponding combat units.
        The situation - so far we do not have this.
        1. Bogatyrev 26 January 2020 15: 20 New
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          This is a layout of peacetime. An attack on such a ship is the beginning of a direct war. In peacetime, it is useful for countering certain hybrid operations. It really can prevent entire fleets from bombing Syria for example.
          In the event of war, his functions change dramatically and he will stay in the coastal defense zone, if he survives, this is clear.
          1. rocket757 26 January 2020 16: 31 New
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            Трудно предположить какие идеи, планы, роятся в головах политиков, со всех сторон???
            The military, with their ability, ability to fulfill / not fulfill, these plans.
            So, we will just see who decides what, and starts to implement it.
  3. Thrifty 24 January 2020 05: 07 New
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    If we take the plans as a basis, then we need only Armat to have at least 1000! So, soon the fairy tale affects, but the matter does not move at all! Maybe they will build these "super", according to the new Russian tradition, pieces 3, in 20 years! For there is nowhere to build, and no one!
    1. Eroma 24 January 2020 19: 35 New
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      Не важно сколько сделают! Важно всех напугать цифрой, сколько их будет, что у всех нос повис от безысходности! А потом брать их тепленькими! lol it is according to Sun Tzu, defeating the protector without a fight! You don’t understand anything in strategy laughing
  4. Mountain shooter 24 January 2020 05: 17 New
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    It seems that foreigners appreciated the superiority of the Zircons and suggest that a massive volley of such a "super frigate" will slaughter several large ships, or even an aircraft carrier order ... Oh, these Zircons ... if they are also armed, the enemy is worth it. " scratch in the back of the head, "determining the outfit of forces and means against such a ship ... Hardly a bluff ... Well, I really hope so.
    1. tlauicol 24 January 2020 05: 40 New
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      When asked about the time of adoption of the Zircon by the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Nikolai Evmenov answered that this would happen "in the coming years."
      1. nickname7 24 January 2020 15: 29 New
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        . "в ближайшие годы

        That is, the article compares paper mock-ups with existing samples?
    2. aszzz888 24 January 2020 05: 43 New
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      Mountain shooter (Eugene) Today, 05:17 ... Oh, these "Zircons" ... if they are also in service - the enemy should "scratch his head", determining the outfit of forces and means against such a ship ... Hardly a bluff ... Well, I really hope so.
      Merikatosm has long been not up to "bluffing." In public - yes, they play, such as "we", "we nevermind", etc. But in fact, I suppose, in the silence of the Pentagon’s offices, it’s long since the Hollywood raids and jokes. Only one, outdated by today's standards, the Su-24 with the Khibiny, showed that it is better not to touch Russia.
      1. kit88 24 January 2020 08: 50 New
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        With all due respect, the Khibiny are not installed on the Su-24.
        1. aszzz888 24 January 2020 11: 35 New
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          kit88 (Alexander) Today, 08:50
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          With all due respect, on the Su-24 Khibiny not installed.


          Home Military equipment Aviation
          The combat destroyer Donald Cook and SU-24
          30.09.2019


          Военное обозрение Флот
          "Khibiny" against Aegis. Return of the American destroyer to the Black Sea
          March 6 2015
          324


          What scared the American destroyer. Arriving at the Donald Cook Russian front-line bomber Su-24 did not have bombs and missiles on board. Under the fuselage was a single container with the Khibiny electronic warfare system. Approaching the destroyer, the Khibiny turned off its radar, combat control circuits, data transmission systems - in short, turned off the entire Aegis, as we turn off the TV by pressing a button on the remote control. After that, the Su-24 simulated a missile attack on a blinded and deafened ship. Then one more and another - only 12 times.

          Any more questions?
          1. Kalmar 24 January 2020 12: 31 New
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            Quote: aszzz888
            Any more questions?

            What a milota, this tale is still in use))
            1. kjhg 24 January 2020 13: 25 New
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              Quote: Kalmar
              What a milota, this tale is still in use))

              This tale will live forever. You only read:
              Approaching the destroyer, the Khibiny turned off its radar, combat control circuits, data transmission systems - in short, turned off the entire Aegis, as we turn off the TV by pressing a button on the remote control.
              This is a masterpiece of literary fiction. fellow
              Any more questions?
              What questions can there be? laughing
              1. ugol2 24 January 2020 15: 35 New
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                Quote: kjhg
                This is a masterpiece of literary fiction.

                And there’s a sequel.
                ...
                Driven by Su-24ym, Cook sailed to the nearest Romanian port. Part of the team, stepping ashore, immediately wrote a report on the dismissal from the ranks of military service from the US Army. Having cleared the deck of diapers and replenished the supplies of water, provisions, gunpowder and activated carbon, the captain of the destroyer decided to go back to sea. But having left the bay and not having sailed and a couple of cable ones, the forward looking again found a formidable Su-24 above his mast with the Khibins on. Frightened by the captain of the ship, he made the brave decision to go straight to Norfolk no matter what!
                The path was long and difficult, the Su-24 did not leave the destroyer for a minute and did not turn off its Khibiny for a second and drove the adversary to the den.
                Слепой и потрепанный с обожженными бортами и пробоинами, Кук прибыл наконец то в родную гавань, где уже вся команда написала рапорта об увольнении. А капитан поклялся никогда больше не выходить в море. Бывший капитан поселился в одинокой двухэтажной хижине на берегу океана, и вечерами смотря на манящее море, вдалеке над горизонтом, на фоне заходящего солнца он всегда видел силуэт пролетающего Су-24 с включенными «Хибинами», как бы говоривший капитану – «Не стоит тебе выходить в море!»
                ...

                And what, many believe! yes
                1. Arg107 24 January 2020 20: 50 New
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                  ..Su-24, flapping its wings ..
                  fixed
            2. Alex Nevs 25 January 2020 18: 52 New
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              Duc where a fairy tale or a true story, let them fall (on a daisy at least). And there ..... accustomed to believe the lonely bastards certainly, they will accept in truth. laughing or not .... or yes ... Need to check? Yes, no, dad number 2 nearby, they would not want to check.
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 January 2020 12: 56 New
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            This nonsense has already been dismantled 100500 times. It will be enough to recall that the original source that spoke about the incident subsequently removed its publication. But they managed to replicate the tale ...
            1. IS-80_RVGK2 24 January 2020 13: 51 New
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              Come on. MMD has even issued a token about this. laughing
          3. BIABIA 24 January 2020 15: 45 New
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            Su-24 + Khibiny = Khan Kuku (forgot about diapers and dismissals).
            Shaw, again?
          4. My doctor 25 January 2020 18: 45 New
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            aszzz888 (sheriff) I'm sorry. Have you finished school?
        2. Zabvo 24 January 2020 11: 54 New
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          Here they still think that the "Khibiny" destroyer drowned out?
          1. kjhg 24 January 2020 13: 29 New
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            Quote: ZABVO
            Here they still think that the "Khibiny" destroyer drowned out?

            Word think does not fit here. They are generally guided by other categories, categories faith. To argue with such is generally useless.
      2. Alex Nevs 25 January 2020 09: 27 New
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        Experts have mined. laughing I agree. Crimea LPR and DPR to help them. Nata laid herself in her pants on the very tomatoes. There (at Nata) already lbbshniki vayuyut.
    3. pmkemcity 24 January 2020 05: 44 New
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      I dreamed about the seas and corals.
      I wanted to eat turtle soup.
      I stepped onto the ship, and the boat
      It turned out from the newspaper yesterday.
    4. Private-K 24 January 2020 10: 55 New
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      Type from Onyx there is reliable protection ... Aha. Hypersonic Zircon only exacerbates.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 January 2020 13: 57 New
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        There is. EW called :)
        1. Private-K 25 January 2020 00: 39 New
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          All details on electronic warfare are so closed that you can say as much as you want about its super-efficiency just like about its low efficiency. hi
          But you, as a carrier’s fonnate, do not take into account that it is much easier to protect aircraft carrier owners with electronic warfare equipment from a class “in-class” aircraft carriers using electronic warfare systems. tongue
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 January 2020 10: 46 New
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            Quote: Private-K
            All details on electronic warfare are so closed that you can say as much as you want about its super-efficiency just like about its low efficiency.

            You can approve anything, paper can endure everything, I agree. But there is a fact - it was electronic warfare and false goal setting that were the most effective means of combating RCC throughout their existence. And there is a second fact - the means of detecting, selecting and retaining targets that can be shoved into missile seekers are much weaker than the countermeasures that can be placed on the ship simply because of the difference in the dimensions of the rocket and the ship.
            In our country, thinking about the invulnerability of hypersonic missiles, usually they recall only the means of fire destruction of the RCC, which is wrong.
  5. Petrol cutter 24 January 2020 05: 47 New
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    Not an article, but the name day of the heart.
    We’ll do a couple of frigates and all the enemies will be boasted in the bases.
  6. Pushkowed 24 January 2020 06: 03 New
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    Initially, the Gorshkovs had 72 vertical launch bays; their upgraded version will receive 120 launchers.
    Mdaaa ... Initially, the Gorshkovs had 48 vertical launch cells (first 4 buildings: 16 UKKSK + 32 Reduta), then there were 56 launchers (5th and 6th buildings that are currently under construction: 24 UKKSK + 32 Reduta), and how many PUs will receive their upgraded version, so far known as 22350M - this is still a mystery covered in darkness. Reliably known only about 48 UKKS, and how many Redutov will be - is unknown.
  7. Ross xnumx 24 January 2020 06: 13 New
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    View from the West: Russia's new frigates challenge entire fleets

    The real state of things:while the Russian Federation has not yet begun to build destroyers or cruisers, however, the ambitious program of the Russians provides for the laying of frigates of class 22350 ...
    My conclusion: knives, scrapers, dusters are prepared; the place of cutting, processing, dressing and drying was selected; outlined age, gender, size and color of the skin; the habitat of the bear, the time of hunting for it and the composition of the brigade that will deal with it is unknown ...
    hi
    1. nickname7 24 January 2020 15: 36 New
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      A project has been announced, according to which in the near future they will create a model of a super ship.
  8. Chigi 24 January 2020 07: 07 New
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    Quote: ROSS 42
    unknown bear habitat

    Well, why the Bear again ...
    There are Sperm Whales in the seas, Moby Dick is probably there too.
    Why is Bear again guilty of something and you need to hunt for him ...
  9. svp67 24 January 2020 07: 08 New
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    heavy class frigate
    the world is slowly going crazy. Either aircraft-carrying cruisers appear, or aircraft-carrying destroyers, now this, what is the next?
    1. Chigi 24 January 2020 07: 17 New
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      The Japanese came up with aircraft-carrying submarines in World War II.
      Now designers are just filling in the blanks.
      At the moment, "aircraft carrier" is any ship having a helipad.
      1. svp67 24 January 2020 16: 42 New
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        Quote: Chigi
        At the moment, "aircraft carrier" is any ship having a helipad.

        Yeah, especially when he looks like that and is ready to accept F-35 into his air group
        1. Chigi 25 January 2020 01: 05 New
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          The more F-35 he has on board - the better. More effective missiles will be consumed.
          You did not think to frighten someone with this photo?
          1. svp67 25 January 2020 03: 37 New
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            Quote: Chigi
            You did not think to frighten someone with this photo?

            Scare? Come on, I just showed you the look of one of the modern destroyers.
    2. Warrior-80 24 January 2020 08: 08 New
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      It’s necessary as in “Avengers” flying aircraft carriers fellow
    3. smaug78 24 January 2020 15: 33 New
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      UDC, which will fight against enemy submarines ...
      1. svp67 24 January 2020 16: 43 New
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        Quote: smaug78
        UDC, which will fight against enemy submarines ...

        Having on its board the Control Center, well equipped and equipped, UDC is able to fight any enemy, attracting the “necessary tool” for this
        1. smaug78 24 January 2020 18: 50 New
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          What are you saying ...
      2. Avior 25 January 2020 13: 23 New
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        And how will he deal with submarines with the help of the F35, which they are already purchasing?
  10. voyaka uh 24 January 2020 11: 40 New
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    "Russia began to use a hypersonic cruise missile
    Zircon since December 2019 "////
    -----
    Oops! Zircon is already in the fleet. Somehow missed this important news.
    1. 3danimal 24 January 2020 13: 10 New
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      Secret invisibility that no one has seen.
      Or maybe just earlier plans were announced to start operation. So they were voiced. (Rarely kept deadlines in practice)
    2. Ezekiel 25 January 2020 02: 40 New
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      Quote: voyaka uh
      Oops! Zircon is already in the fleet. Somehow missed this important news.

      Ну че? Очкуете-то Цирконьчика небось? Есть он, есть, все кому надо знают, треки с орбиты засекали yes
      You don’t have to slap it, climb out from under the table and take your head out of the oven, it’s unlikely that Israel will be threatened by Israel with Zircon until after another stupid stupidity even such an anti-Semitic as the Dark One will be forced to give them to Syria in addition to the Yakhonts.
      Hold yourself in control, men! stop
  11. Chaldon48 24 January 2020 11: 49 New
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    The main thing is that the sailors should not experience a lack of food, but rockets will follow.
    1. Chigi 25 January 2020 01: 13 New
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      Here are the right words!
      And then "tsushima" will happen again, coal loaded excessively, and food for a minimum and then for the officers.
      Морякам нужно кушать! Тогда и снаряды и ракеты очень аккуратно цели поражают.
  12. Zabvo 24 January 2020 11: 51 New
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    Quote: shonsu
    Why does he need a reactor with a displacement of 7000?

    Because gas turbines aren’t normal.
    1. 3danimal 24 January 2020 13: 08 New
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      With such a small displacement, the installation of a reactor is unlikely.
  13. Luty 24 January 2020 12: 20 New
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    Когда начинают хвалить всегда стоит напрячься и задуматься. Врядли это искрени. А если фрегаты будут строить со скоростью постройки атомных ракетных крейсеров типа КИРОВ, то тут уж совсем не весело.
  14. Evgeny Akhnazarov 24 January 2020 12: 56 New
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    Since December has zircon flown already?))
  15. 3danimal 24 January 2020 13: 15 New
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    Continuous inaccuracies. On Bramos or Kyrgyz Republic Caliber warhead is 2 times heavier than on Tomahawk? Did the author even bother to read the well-known performance characteristics of missiles?
    Further - what 72 cells on Gorshkov? Can he, like Burke, take 60 KR? No, because he has only 16 cells of UKKS. Apparently, we are talking about 72 missiles in all cells (including Redoubt cells and DB missiles, of which 4 are placed in one)
  16. 3danimal 24 January 2020 13: 25 New
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    As for Zircon: what is it? Marine version of Iskander? Or a modernized Bramos (which is more likely, but then declared speeds are 100% impossible). If this is a rocket with a scramjet, where are the successful tests of this scramjet? And what dimensions does a similar product have? They can not be less than the everywhere demonstrated (as an illustration of Zircon) X-51 Waverider, which DOES NOT fit in the UKKS, with an air start (less accelerator) and the absence of warheads.
  17. Alexey-74 24 January 2020 13: 29 New
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    God grant that everything would turn out!
    1. agond 24 January 2020 17: 51 New
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      Супер Горшков стало как притча , а между тем само словосочетание " тяжелый авианесущий крейсер" говорит о том, что серьезные люди в серьез считали и до сих пор считают возможным сложить половинку крейсера с половинкой авианосца в полноценную единицу... не получится в сумме единица, как не старайся. Человек за редкими исключениями, не способен создавать полноценные комбинированные вещи , как правило соединение в одно целое двух предметов различного назначения , даже изначально очень хороших по отдельности, дает в лучшем случае весьма посредственный результат, а обычно он совсем отвратный. поэтому если нужен крейсер делаете крейсер, нужен авианосец то его и ни каких дурных комбинаций
  18. Sapsan136 24 January 2020 17: 39 New
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    In fact, we can say that frigates of type 22350M are already under construction in the Russian Federation, and the new project can be called 22350UM ... The fact is that the frigates laid down on 23.04.19, actually 22350M, (Admiral Amelko) and (Admiral Chichagov) carry 24 cells for missiles Caliber instead of 16 cells on previously built frigates 22350 ...
  19. Pavel57 24 January 2020 17: 52 New
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    At the same time, Military Watch indicates that, although the frigate’s firepower is comparable to that of American cruisers, its endurance is significantly lower.

    An interesting term is endurance.
  20. sailor roman 24 January 2020 18: 23 New
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    Stupid article, ashamed to read. The author is clearly not familiar with the fleet, Navy ships and the problems of testing and fine-tuning new weapons.
  21. Usher 24 January 2020 20: 02 New
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    power projection

    I don’t understand, did this projection affect anyone? What kind of "mythical" projection?
  22. LomKuvaldych 24 January 2020 20: 39 New
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    In 20 years, 3 frigates were built under Putin, and in 20 more 3 modernized frigates were built. After that, will the fleet at all be in Russia?
  23. arkadiyssk 24 January 2020 22: 10 New
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    Quote: LomKuvaldych
    In 20 years, 3 frigates were built under Putin, and in 20 more 3 modernized frigates were built. After that, will the fleet at all be in Russia?

    And during this time they will write off how many more patrol officers, obviously more than 6 pieces. :( It seems that we are building it, but at such a pace the fleet really only decreases.
  24. Old26 24 January 2020 22: 12 New
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    Quote: aszzz888
    Only one, outdated by today's standards, the Su-24 with the Khibiny, showed that it is better not to touch Russia.

    laughing SU-24, on which the "Khibin" has never been a historical example laughing And bad manners

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    It seems that foreigners appreciated the superiority of the Zircons and suggest that a massive volley of such a "super frigate" will slaughter several large ships, or even an aircraft carrier order ... Oh, these Zircons ... if they are also armed, the enemy is worth it. " scratch in the back of the head, "determining the outfit of forces and means against such a ship ... Hardly a bluff ... Well, I really hope so.

    Of course cast a spell. How not to check out. Not a single test has been done either from a submarine or from a surface ship, but someone already sees a massive volley from a nonexistent super-frigate crying

    Quote: Evgeny Akhnazarov
    Since December has zircon flown already?))

    From December 2020 or 2021 ... Regularly ...
  25. DPN
    DPN 24 January 2020 22: 46 New
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    Probably: Bulgaria, Switzerland, Belarus and such as Greece.
  26. Stalllker 25 January 2020 00: 20 New
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    Our handsome, and they have a hut
  27. Andrey Mikhaylov 25 January 2020 12: 09 New
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    I would like to be built. Like civil ships. Once a half a year.
  28. Vlad5307 25 January 2020 18: 05 New
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    Quote: bayard
    In short, then - in 2014, it didn’t ...
    It's a pity .

    Maybe that’s why the Yankees accelerated the Maidan in Dill, having spent it earlier than planned! soldier
  29. Big Cat 25 January 2020 19: 32 New
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    This is all wonderful, but I would like specifics in terms of the GEM - who is where when.
    1. Big Cat 25 January 2020 19: 38 New
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      However, what am I talking about ... Replace with corvettes as usual ...
  30. lvov_aleksey 25 January 2020 22: 28 New
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    so they can’t do without a tambourine. write to him if that
    ps I'm talking about star-striped
  31. Victor March 47 25 January 2020 22: 56 New
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    Quote: Aerodrome
    Here is tiki
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Autoor !! The first photo is not Ticonderoga !! Type Halifax Canadian trough.

    Good jug. Perhaps the hero of Russia will be given for him.
  32. Victor March 47 25 January 2020 23: 07 New
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    Quote: agond
    Супер Горшков стало как притча , а между тем само словосочетание " тяжелый авианесущий крейсер" говорит о том, что серьезные люди в серьез считали и до сих пор считают возможным сложить половинку крейсера с половинкой авианосца в полноценную единицу... не получится в сумме единица, как не старайся. Человек за редкими исключениями, не способен создавать полноценные комбинированные вещи , как правило соединение в одно целое двух предметов различного назначения , даже изначально очень хороших по отдельности, дает в лучшем случае весьма посредственный результат, а обычно он совсем отвратный. поэтому если нужен крейсер делаете крейсер, нужен авианосец то его и ни каких дурных комбинаций

    К вашему разумному замечанию ещё бы пару извилин. Назван авианесущим только для того, чтобы иметь формальную возможность проходить проливы. Доктрина Монтрё не позволяет авианосцам проход в Чёрное море.