Turkey proposed integrating S-400 air defense systems into NATO defense system

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Turkey proposed integrating S-400 air defense systems into NATO defense system

Turkey has proposed integrating the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, procured in Russia, into the NATO defense system. The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu made a corresponding proposal.

Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Chavoshoglu said that the Russian S-400 air defense system could be compatible with the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and integrated into NATO's defense system. He proposed the creation of a working group to assess how the S-400 can be combined with alliance systems.



The concern is that the F-35 fighters and the C-400 systems are incompatible ... Let's create a working group, NATO will be able to lead it. Let the experts study this issue and make an assessment

- said the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

Recall that the United States excluded Turkey from the F-35 fighter production program because of Ankara’s purchase of the S-400 air defense system. Washington has expressed concern that the Russian anti-aircraft system "may receive data on the latest fighter."

In turn, Turkey does not intend to abandon the S-400, according to Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the system will be put on combat alert in April 2020. At the same time, Ankara does not exclude the acquisition of an additional batch of anti-aircraft systems. The decision on this will be made following further negotiations with Washington on fifth-generation F-35 aircraft and Patriot systems.
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  1. +4
    23 January 2020 18: 17
    And there you look and Kalash will accept! feel
    1. +4
      23 January 2020 18: 25
      Turkey openly offers NATO to study the S-400, and for this unfreeze the purchase of the F-35. Will the US go for it? So far, it seems, they are not burning with desire. But it could just be a game. They may agree to study, and then they say that they are not compatible. This will be the situation for Turkey and Russia.
      1. +4
        23 January 2020 18: 46
        So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them. hi Let them try to get inside, and there you look at the virus on all of their F-35 will spread. feel
        1. -9
          23 January 2020 19: 11
          Virus wassat padded binomial laughing laughing laughing
        2. +16
          23 January 2020 19: 20
          Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
          So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them. hi Let them try to get inside, and there you look at the virus on all of their F-35 will spread. feel

          Even if the mattresses disassemble the S-400 handed over to Turkey by screw, they will not find anything new for themselves. I think they already know about how the S-400 works, since their intelligence is not in vain eating its bread. But ... the main and most coveted trophy for mattresses (and not only in such systems) is the recognition codes of friend or foe. When Belenko hijacked our plane, we got billions of rubles precisely because these codes fell into the hands of the mattresses, which forced us to redraw this system again.
          And our friend-or-foe system is not integrated into the export S-400s. So the dried ears of a hare are mattresses, not secrets.
          1. +1
            23 January 2020 19: 44
            And our friend-or-foe system is not integrated into the export S-400s. So the dried ears of a hare are mattresses, not secrets.

            Where does this information come from? The air defense system is built on the "friend or foe" recognition system. Let it be possible that this system on the export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is, otherwise the Turks will shoot down their planes.
            1. +3
              23 January 2020 20: 56
              Quote: private person
              Where does this information come from? The air defense system is built on the "friend or foe" recognition system. Let it be possible that this system on the export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is, otherwise the Turks will shoot down their planes.

              They have their own friend or alien system, NATO ... our system to the export S-400, which side? I mean that mattresses really need the codes of our friend or alien system, but in the export version it is not a priori.
              1. -6
                23 January 2020 21: 29
                Well, then, is there any point in selling air defense without the Friend-Foe system? What would be again some kind of our DRYER filled up!?!?! What is stopping the "stone" of the racket control from cutting this algorithm ?!
                1. +2
                  23 January 2020 21: 41
                  [quote = Stalllker] Well, then what is the point then to sell air defense without a system of your own-alien? What would again fill some sort of our DRYING!?!?!
                  The point is that a friend or foe system is one of the main secrets of any country. Suppose that the codes of this system have got into the mattress. A NATO plane flies, for example, a nuclear bomb with a bomb on board, and our air defense system identifies it as OWN. And all these bombs are streaming with impunity on our heads, because our air defense identifies these goals as OWN.

                  [quote = Stalllker] What is stopping the "stone" of the racket control from using this algorithm?! [/ quote]
                  Yeah ... if everything was so simple, no one would have been soaring, creating an algorithm terribly complicated so that it would not be cracked.
                  1. -6
                    24 January 2020 00: 10
                    Your words did not convince at all, some speculation
                  2. +1
                    24 January 2020 01: 40
                    The point is that a friend or foe system is one of the main secrets of any country.


                    Yes, it has been said a hundred times - both them and our systems for 40 years have already been created according to the principle "The enemy has a working model, there is zero sense to him from this." Even if he intercepts all requests and responses on the air.
              2. 0
                23 January 2020 21: 36
                our system to export S-400 which side?

                So this bothers the Americans, the NRH is tuned to the airplanes of the conditional enemy. And who is the opponent of Russia?
                1. 0
                  24 January 2020 00: 01
                  Quote: private person
                  Where does this information come from? The air defense system is built on the "friend or foe" recognition system. Let it be possible that this system on the export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is, otherwise the Turks will shoot down their planes.

                  private person, except automatic mode, there is a manual modewhere the start command is given by the operator according to external information, while the identification mode for the complex is not required. Installation of equipment is possible of international recognition mode, including Russian-made, as well as its national. Many are confused, not knowing our identification system - the equipment of the identification system itself, the structure of the code, and not the request codes themselves, are important, the answers that can change over time ... And in general, forget the topic of discussion of codes that arises from time to time on VO ... All I wrote here is my assumptions based on open materials... If you have a head, then you will understand a lot of what I said!
                  1. +1
                    24 January 2020 00: 15
                    Sorry, opposition - right recognition.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. +3
            23 January 2020 20: 06
            At least one sober comment))) the Greeks had c300 and they didn’t rummage around there and nothing has changed ...
            1. +2
              23 January 2020 20: 20
              Quote: Alex_Rarog
              At least one sober comment))) the Greeks had c300 and they didn’t rummage around there and nothing has changed ...

              The most important thing in the complex is the operation algorithms, and this is not accessible to mattresses, you cannot figure them out by the screw, you need to understand them.
              1. +6
                23 January 2020 20: 24
                I agree to all 100 !!! Iron without the appropriate software is just iron. And in the export version, software say so adapted)
                1. 0
                  23 January 2020 21: 31
                  And in the export version, software say so adapted)

                  Adapted to what? That the same thing was installed on the S-400 delivered to the Turks, but they did not sell bare iron to them? Moreover, the complex has already been put on the database right there in the article was.
                  1. 0
                    24 January 2020 16: 09
                    Algorithms of work is what is adapted. And I'm more than sure that the difference between them is as great as between Windows 10 and Linux Mint 19.10)
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. +1
            24 January 2020 00: 55
            Belenko cost us dearly, but not very expensive, they planned to change the friend or foe system before Belenko.
          5. +2
            24 January 2020 05: 49
            Turkish S-400s use a Russian-made system known as an "interrogator". The Interrogator sends and receives coded signals from friendly aircraft that identify them as harmless.
            The actual encoded signals that this identification system uses are stored securely in an attached but separate Turkish-made cryptological system, to which we do not have direct access.
            The Turkish government acquired this Russian system primarily due to delays in fully domestic production of an alternative from defense contractor Aselsan. Turkey plans to re-equip its S-400 with its own equipment as soon as it is ready.
        3. +3
          23 January 2020 20: 13
          Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
          So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them.

          According to the Russian state news agency TASS, Russia, in the framework of the agreement concluded with Ankara, supplied Turkey with two S-400 divisions and 120 missiles. The same publication notes that technology will not be transferred, although earlier the Russians had stated "a possible partial transfer of technology."
          The Russian state news agency TASS, citing military-diplomatic sources, reported that, as part of the agreement concluded between Turkey and Russia, two S-400 divisions, 120 anti-aircraft missiles, some spare parts and other necessary items have been handed over to the Turkish Armed Forces (AF) so far. equipment. It was also noted that the deal with Turkey “did not imply technology transfer, even partial”.
        4. 0
          23 January 2020 20: 20
          Anyone who had a chance to play with Windows95, type in the search engine the phrase (together with the quotes) "bomb bay performed an illegal operation." You will be in a good mood!
          1. 0
            24 January 2020 11: 19
            But where is she now to get this Windows ..
            On 10-ke nothing happens ..
            1. 0
              24 January 2020 11: 23
              It's just a phrase from a wonderful humor about the use of such software in aviation.
        5. 0
          23 January 2020 21: 38
          Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
          So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them.

          the Trojan horse - in my understanding - the abrupt transformation of SAM into OTRK with special warheads on board ...
      2. +6
        23 January 2020 18: 46
        Turkey proposed integrating S-400 air defense systems into NATO defense system

        The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree. Thus, they will have to admit that their stealth program of the new aircraft has failed, and this is many billions of dollars that are invested in the promotion of this aircraft and even more in its construction. So the Turks are simply trolling the staff, knowing in advance about the final result.
        1. +2
          23 January 2020 18: 57
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree.

          So Turkey has already tested S_400 and Erdogan was clearly shocked with joy and the United States immediately began sending overseas ..))
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          So the Turks are simply trolling the staff, knowing in advance about the final result.

          And they are very trolling .. I feel that Israel will also ask for the supply of these systems .... Everything is going according to plan.! hi
          So, who will integrate whom else is the question ..
          1. +4
            23 January 2020 19: 04
            Quote: Kastorkin
            So Turkey has already tested S_400 and Erdogan was clearly shocked with joy and the United States immediately began sending overseas ..))

            I think Erdogan is already F-35 unnecessarily. That is why he is talking about the procurement of the new S-400. hi
            1. 0
              23 January 2020 19: 15
              Quote: СРЦ П-15
              I think Erdogan is already F-35 unnecessarily. That is why he talks about the procurement of new S-400

              Erdogan was not needed and was relieved that he didn’t buy such expensive toys .... But he bought additional rockets (150 pcs) for the S-400 systems recently .. hi
              And at the expense of integration, the US is tearing and crippling with anger .. laughing
              And for those who howl they’ll probably study, etc. S-400 is an export option .. And our designers are not suckers to sell all the secrets .. hi
              1. +1
                23 January 2020 19: 40
                Quote: Kastorkin
                Erdogan was relieved that he didn’t buy such expensive toys

                That this F-35, as "the most expensive gift", the US could not push through it due to old friendship. Like other "esteemed members" it has already been done. Turks are still traders.
              2. 0
                24 January 2020 01: 18
                Kastorkin: I feel .... Everything is going according to plan.! hi

                We are glad to see you again on the forum. Welcome back to your home harbor hi
        2. +4
          23 January 2020 19: 24
          Quote: SRC P-15
          The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree. Thus, they will have to admit that their stealth program for the new aircraft failed

          Alexander hi I would have recognized the fiasco in place of the Yankees. The grandmother has completely forgotten how to earn money. bully Just explaining the satellites, they say the program started back in the last century, and they gave little money. That the Russians had time to prepare and even launched the S-400 on the market. So we urgently need to develop Penguin II and invest 10 times more so that the Russians do not have time to come up with the S-800.
          Give Penguin II for the price of diamonds
          1. 0
            23 January 2020 22: 39
            Quote: Tusv
            I would be in place of the Yankees recognized fiasco.

            It's impossible. This will cause a tremendous political crisis. Wasted a lot of money.
            In addition, the elite of the United States is watered by the real combat effectiveness of the systems in the second place. They will be armed with children 40 - 50 and tout as a great plane!
            Well, ladies, this is in our hands ...
        3. -1
          23 January 2020 22: 34
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree

          This is true!
          Well, probably not like a Christmas tree, but the F-35 target is most likely visible on the screens. Those. Under certain conditions, it is defined precisely as a goal, not a hindrance. Now we need to learn how to select a target and direct missiles at it. Most likely the Turks do not know how to do this yet, but they will learn how to gain experience.
          This is what the Shtatovs are afraid of. It really puts an end to the F-35, and this is a budget disaster.
      3. 0
        24 January 2020 05: 14
        Where did you get such info?
    2. Fat
      0
      23 January 2020 20: 35
      Quote: Theodore
      And there you look and Kalash will accept! feel

      What ... Uh ... Kalashnikov and so is any caliber ... AKM 7,62 is in trend, well, greetings from the Union. No one has yet reached the reproduction of the original, and the machine will soon be 90 years old
  2. -5
    23 January 2020 18: 23
    To make such a decision, it is necessary to create a special commission of professionals from the bloc countries of the bloc countries, and this implies that they will get acquainted with the C400, and many military in NATO will gain access. Thus, the Turks simply, under the guise of integration, simply give out information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that interests us in the first place!
    1. +5
      23 January 2020 18: 30
      Quote: Thrifty
      Provide information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that is of interest to the United States in the first place!


      I’m hardly mistaken if I assume that the frequency of equipment for Americans is no longer a secret.
    2. +1
      23 January 2020 18: 33
      If memory serves, the sultan was already on the Yankees' sight and almost fell a victim of a coup, so he probably would not want to repeat Suleymani’s fate, the S-400 is not in his interests to keep his secrets secret, but he’s constantly flirting with the USA and NATO is a fact and definitely a constant blackmail of opponents, including Russia.
      1. +8
        23 January 2020 19: 02
        Part of the material from open sources ...
        The first, simplest line of defense is legal. When signing the contract, very serious requirements were placed on the buying side. In particular, Turkey does not have the right to disassemble the complex, make changes to it and maintain it. All maintenance work is carried out only by Russia. Also, no documentation (production data) is transmitted to Turkey. If Russian experts detect interference in the system, then Russia has the right to take these systems back or turn them off (this was told by the presidential aide for military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin).
        1. -2
          23 January 2020 19: 15
          Legal!? .... and how much has Russia won in the world from the point of view of jurisprudence? ... The only way, in my opinion, will be bombed on these complexes if I climb into them! The rest is all bullshit.
          1. +2
            23 January 2020 21: 39
            Quote: Popuas
            Legal!? .... and how much has Russia won in the world from the point of view of jurisprudence? ... The only way, in my opinion, will be bombed on these complexes if I climb into them! The rest is all bullshit.

            angry - From here, guys, our Motherland dictates its unshakable will to the rest of the world community.
            -May we bang?
            - Be sure to bang! And more than once!
            The whole world is in ruin! ... But then.
            laughing a hero from your Avatar, from the movie "DMB"
        2. 0
          23 January 2020 21: 46
          Vladimir Kozhin relieved of his post of assistant to the President for military-technical cooperation

          The President signed the Decree “On V. Kozhin.”

          June 13, 2018 16:50
          Decree text:

          1. To dismiss Kozhin Vladimir Igorevich from the post of Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation on military-technical cooperation.

          2. This Decree comes into force from the date of its signing.

          http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/57769
          Kozhin's statement is very strange, such contracts simply do not exist.
          Everything that you wrote, usually leads only to the loss of warranty.
          I can’t even imagine how the complex will be taken from Turkey
          hi
          1. +3
            23 January 2020 22: 30
            Quote: Avior
            Kozhin's statement is very strange, such contracts simply do not exist.

            May be. And what is the strangeness and what kind of contracts are there?

            Quote: Avior
            Everything that you wrote, usually leads only to the loss of warranty.

            I quoted Kozhin (word for word)
            Quote: Avior
            I can’t even imagine how the complex will be taken from Turkey

            laughing maybe, like in a movie ... "the S-400 explosion timer goes off at the border with ... Kazakhstan"
            hi
            1. 0
              23 January 2020 23: 51
              I quoted Kozhin (word for word)

              No doubt. I know where it comes from.
              From an article that appeared in mid-December 2018 and was immediately distributed on the network without an author
              http://in24.org/technology/34596?utm_source=warfiles.ru
              the anonymous author either did not know, or was sure that no one would check and did not bother, that Kozhin had long been no longer an adviser
              hi
              1. +2
                23 January 2020 23: 57
                Quote: Avior
                the anonymous author either did not know, or was sure that no one would check and did not bother, that Kozhin had long been no longer an adviser

                Maybe. Thank you for the clarification hi
    3. Fat
      +1
      23 January 2020 20: 53
      Quote: Thrifty
      To make such a decision, it is necessary to create a special commission of professionals from the bloc countries of the bloc countries, and this implies that they will get acquainted with the C400, and many military in NATO will gain access. Thus, the Turks simply, under the guise of integration, simply give out information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that interests us in the first place!

      Nonsense! All "secret purities" For you personally, "secret" .get in 300 and 400 nothing unnecessarily unique and "secret". In addition to very competent software and missiles, the software is perceiving.
      "Purity" ... I cried ...
  3. +8
    23 January 2020 18: 26
    Integrate male into wolf pack?
    1. +5
      23 January 2020 18: 34
      Rather, a wolf in a dog pack.
      1. +3
        23 January 2020 19: 02
        Quote: Kleber
        Rather, a wolf in a dog pack.

        ... and the fourth machine gun, bastard, in its own way! (Papandopulo monologue from the movie Wedding in Robin)

        Here is a typical example of the integration of foreign weapons for bad purposes! And what, everything can be incorporated into the design ....! laughing
        1. Fat
          +1
          23 January 2020 21: 12
          Quote: Major Yurik
          Here is a typical example of the integration of foreign weapons for bad purposes! And what, everything can be incorporated into the design ....!

          And what can be sewn into the instructions ...
          Tell me, commander. What is this pink button for? Yes, God knows, but according to observations, it should be blue. But the instructions say white. And if you click? ... And ... Come on, the failure is clear, but the Europeans are of little use. States of their pros send thousands ...
  4. -3
    23 January 2020 18: 27
    This is what NATO members will have access to the s-400 and the opportunity to learn, normally sold so
    1. -1
      24 January 2020 08: 21
      they already know everything)))) and they can’t open the secrets)))
  5. -1
    23 January 2020 18: 35
    It's time. And then NATO bases around Russia can not be counted, but they still do not know what to do with its air defense.
  6. -4
    23 January 2020 18: 36
    Or maybe it is worthwhile to warn the Turkes that when such movements continue, the complexes will be destroyed along with the erdogadic?
  7. 0
    23 January 2020 18: 38
    But PERSONALLY promised that they would not integrate.
    1. +1
      23 January 2020 19: 04
      "Promising does not mean getting married" (c) Especially when it comes to the promises of politicians.
      1. Fat
        0
        23 January 2020 21: 44
        Quote: Kleber
        "Promising does not mean getting married" (c) Especially when it comes to the promises of politicians.

        That's what the plan is * if the slate sits on your head, go and prove that MY roof. And the wind ... The storm happens.
  8. 0
    23 January 2020 18: 41
    Turks! You do not go too far !!!
  9. +5
    23 January 2020 18: 42
    Level 80 Trolling from Chavoshoglu! laughing
    Without Russian specialists, there can be no integration, which means that both sides will receive information - both NATO about the S-400 and Russia about the F-35. And they will become interdependent, which will exclude a "hot" conflict. However, if the Russian Federation is on the way of the S-500, about which little is known, then NATO (read - the United States) does not have any immediate peers. This will allow Russia to gain some time. And then - a new round of the arms race.
  10. +2
    23 January 2020 18: 47
    Why are you so worried? Well, the Turks offered to check C400 on F35, so what? Let the Americans be surprised. Ours are also not stupid, that would just merge secrets.
    1. +1
      23 January 2020 18: 52
      In ATMs, when burglary, money is poured over, and when the power is turned off, the signaling goes off! :) What can I say about military equipment ... Though it is an export version. The "liquidators" are probably crammed in all sorts of ways ..
      1. Fat
        0
        23 January 2020 22: 24
        Quote: FORCE 38RUS
        In ATMs, when burglary, money is poured over, and when the power is turned off, the signaling goes off! :) What can I say about military equipment ... Though it is an export version. The "liquidators" are probably crammed in all sorts of ways ..

        Oh well .. On .. The air defense system is not even a pair of batteries. It’s even difficult to understand from the kit, but there is no chance to reproduce and deceive, except in case of luck. So, having sold s400 to the Turks, we included them in our own system for responding to VK threats.
        Not complexes with the US 400 are nasty, but the competition of space control systems.
        Erdogan needs state control not for Kommersant
        cowards in the steam room.
        And there is a NATO coward, there is a broom with a 400 hosh, take a steam bath and hosh. half metal.
  11. +3
    23 January 2020 18: 48
    I wonder when and where was the photograph taken at the beginning of the article? On capyar? EMNIP such chassis has not been used in the S-400 system for quite some time, almost 10 years

    Quote: rotkiv04
    This is what NATO members will have access to the s-400 and the opportunity to learn, normally sold so

    What do you want? It must be either-or. Either sell (almost at every corner we say that it is their turn) or keep secrets without selling anything. Do you seriously think that if we sell the S-400 to Saudi Arabia, then the Americans will not get access to them? Or to any other country?
    1. +1
      23 January 2020 18: 55
      We must think to whom to sell, and not just anyhow to sell. Turks are historical enemies of Russia and always will be, no gas treaties will fix it
    2. +1
      23 January 2020 20: 36
      Do you seriously think that if we sell the S-400 to Saudi Arabia, then the Americans will not get access to them?

      So after all, secrets are different secrets.
      A lot of comments mentioning the "friend or foe" system. It is obvious that such systems are built using powerful crypto-protection (providing, among other things, crypto-resistance, imitation-resistance and noise immunity).
      And modern views on such systems are based on a simple but very important requirement: even having a comprehensive understanding of the algorithms and the hardware platform, it is impossible to open or simulate the intercepted information in a reasonable amount of time. This is ensured by the characteristics and methods of using crypto keys.
  12. +2
    23 January 2020 18: 52
    Cool ??? Go understand these eastern rulers.
  13. 0
    23 January 2020 19: 12
    Quote: rotkiv04
    We must think to whom to sell, and not just anyhow to sell. Turks are historical enemies of Russia and always will be, no gas treaties will fix it

    To whom to sell? And what, wishing in line are hustling?
    Countries that bought from us can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Algeria, China. Yes, and Turkey. The rest, too, can you name our friends? Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Maybe Pakistan or Morocco? Iraq, which either wants to buy, sometimes does not want, then wants again ...
    So you have to sell, as you write, "to anyone". there are no others, or they have no money.
  14. 0
    23 January 2020 19: 40
    In a peak situation, the United States will prepare its operators in Turkish complexes. And all within the framework of the contract.
  15. 0
    23 January 2020 20: 18
    Quote: private person
    It is possible that this system on export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is there otherwise the Turks will bring down their planes.

    So Andrew wrote OUR SYSTEM OF OWN-ALIEN is not integrated into export air defense systems. They have their own
  16. 0
    23 January 2020 20: 39
    Quote: stock buildbat
    Or maybe it is worthwhile to warn the Turkes that when such movements continue, the complexes will be destroyed along with the erdogadic?

    Want to start a war with NATO?
  17. +1
    23 January 2020 21: 05
    Quote: Terenin
    The first, simplest line of defense is legal. When signing the contract, very serious requirements were placed on the buying side. In particular, Turkey does not have the right to disassemble the complex, make changes to it and maintain it.

    Then how can one understand the statement that Russia will provide warranty service for 20 months? And then what, for maintenance, the Turks will do with us for money? You have to understand that legally Turks are full of suckers, since you agree to this?
    They have no right to disassemble the complex during the warranty period. The warranty period is running out - they can disassemble and make changes, if they have enough "intelligence and ingenuity". Another thing is that in such contracts there is an "end-user certificate" that regulates whether a country can re-export, or cannot export it anywhere.

    Quote: Terenin
    Also, no documentation (production data) is transmitted to Turkey. If Russian experts detect interference in the system, then Russia has the right to take these systems back or turn them off (this was told by the presidential aide for military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin).

    Yeah. And after the completion of the warranty service, the Turks will repair the complexes using the "scientific poke" method? You have a peculiar concept of a contract. If you paid for something, it is YOURS. And nobody can take it away from you. Another thing is that for the period of warranty service you will have some restrictions.

    Quote: СРЦ П-15
    The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree. Thus, they will have to admit that their stealth program of the new aircraft has failed, and this is many billions of dollars that are invested in the promotion of this aircraft and even more in its construction. So the Turks are simply trolling the staff, knowing in advance about the final result.

    They will go to the integration, and quite calmly. They are well aware that the longer the wavelength of the radar, the better it can see the "stealth" (farther). On millimeter or centimeter-range radar, "stealth" can be seen very close, but on meter-range radars at the limit of their detection range. Don't think that Americans are so dumb that they don't know physics.
    So their "35th" program did not suffer any fiasco. The main countries where it can be used may or may not have VHF stations. They are hardly anywhere, except for Russia, are massively used ...
  18. -2
    23 January 2020 22: 51
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
    So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them. hi Let them try to get inside, and there you look at the virus on all of their F-35 will spread. feel

    Even if the mattresses disassemble the S-400 handed over to Turkey by screw, they will not find anything new for themselves. I think they already know about how the S-400 works, since their intelligence is not in vain eating its bread. But ... the main and most coveted trophy for mattresses (and not only in such systems) is the recognition codes of friend or foe. When Belenko hijacked our plane, we got billions of rubles precisely because these codes fell into the hands of the mattresses, which forced us to redraw this system again.
    And our friend-or-foe system is not integrated into the export S-400s. So the dried ears of a hare are mattresses, not secrets.

    And what, the mind is not enough to understand that the codes were not passed to them. And if they did, then not ours. Is it so hard to change what any beginner can do? Modern opportunities can do wonders- change them several times a day. In Belennko’s time, ROMs were stitched into rings with wires. And to change the blocks is to change dozens of connectors, after having previously taken them out of the safes, according to the schedule, with just transferred special packages. testing on stands in rooms with iron doors.
  19. +1
    23 January 2020 23: 01
    The S-400 in the NATO defense system would be a real Trojan horse.
  20. -2
    23 January 2020 23: 06
    Quote: Thrifty
    To make such a decision, it is necessary to create a special commission of professionals from the bloc countries of the bloc countries, and this implies that they will get acquainted with the C400, and many military in NATO will gain access. Thus, the Turks simply, under the guise of integration, simply give out information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that interests us in the first place!

    Americans knew PURITY already at the stage of testing the layout of the equipment. You can’t hide megawatts, and only 80-120 km to the satellite. Transmitters can be worked out for the equivalent load. But in this mode, you can’t see either the antenna diagrams or the range of vision / hearing. Nothing. In milliseconds, scanning receivers inspect the entire radio range. From extra long to millimeters. And they impose radiation with all the characteristics on a map of the area over which a curious apparatus flies at that time. We do exactly the same. So, the secret is only in the COMPLEX of resolving issues. From the school where the station operators trained to the soldier in the trench.
  21. 0
    23 January 2020 23: 15
    Imperial habits and who you are, Turkey you used all your life.
  22. -2
    24 January 2020 07: 50
    Do not forget to put a bookmark there for yourself?
  23. 0
    24 January 2020 11: 22
    I read the comments and decided to add my five cents.
    1. The ground-based radar interrogator (NRZ) of the state recognition system is generally a separate equipment that is either integrated into or attached to the air defense system of the air defense system. Naturally, there was never any talk about the transfer / sale of domestic Turkish refineries to Turkey, and it can. Yes, Turkey doesn’t need it either. All Turkish air defense systems use NATO NRZ.
    2. Unfortunately, there is something to profit from in the S400 and without NRZ. This is the composition and algorithms and operation of the radar complex, this is the design of missiles and their performance characteristics, and much, much more. And in order to learn all this, it is not at all necessary to get into machine codes of the computer complex of the air defense system and its components. It’s enough to competently draw up a test program for air defense systems and clearly implement it, and everything that is necessary and sufficient to know for a successful counteraction to the air defense system will become clear as a day.

    Therefore, the sale of the S400 air defense system to one of the NATO members, who, moreover, has always been a "sworn friend" of Russia, i.e. Turkey, looks like the desire of some people in the Government and the defense industry of the Russian Federation to earn good money even at the cost of betraying the national interests of the Russian Federation. Moreover, these grandmothers, as a rule, swim past the hungry mouths of industrialists and not only them.

    Against this background, the history of Turkey’s downing of a Russian plane in Syria, which both sides quickly tried to hush up, looks more than strange.

    In general, it seems that in Russia the greatest attention is paid to those weapons systems that can be quickly and profitably (for someone) sold to anyone who can pay for these systems.

    This trend began after the collapse of the Soviet Union (remember the sale of the C300 in the United States in the early 90s) and has now gained such a pace that you do not know to be surprised or horrified. However, why be surprised if, apart from the money for the air defense system, the business interests of the oil and gas mafia of the Russian Federation, including all sorts of "Turkish Streams", are at stake. For the sake of these interests, some people will not only sell air defense systems to Turkey, but also their mother.
    1. -3
      24 January 2020 11: 38
      Quote: gregor6549
      It’s enough to competently draw up a test program for air defense systems and clearly implement it, and everything that is necessary and sufficient to know to successfully counter air defense systems will become clear as day

      Beautifully written. Do it yourself - take it? wink

      If suddenly the answer is "yes" - I would like at least a couple of strokes - what exactly and how do you intend to test. Purely for "a little specifics" Yes
      1. 0
        24 January 2020 16: 03
        What do you mean "take it yourself"? Such things are usually done by solid teams and include both full-scale testing and simulation. Simulation modeling alone requires intensive multi-day work of system engineers, programmers, hardware engineers and many other specialists and the corresponding software hardware, including stationary high-speed computers.
        On such models, various scenarios of possible military operations are played and the effectiveness of, for example, air defense systems (SAM, IA, etc.) is determined in these scenarios. Then the data obtained on simulation models are checked at training ranges and military exercises using real military equipment.
        In general, the work is very difficult and time-consuming. But such things were done in the 70s of the last century, they are being done now. If we talk about some particulars, for example, one of the goals of the tests can be to identify the effectiveness of air defense systems for detecting and tracking heterogeneous air targets with different EPRs, different speed and maneuverability characteristics, in different jamming conditions, etc. Alas, you can’t tell in the comment.
        1. -1
          24 January 2020 21: 06
          Quote: gregor6549
          One of the goals of the tests may be to identify the effectiveness of air defense systems for detecting and tracking heterogeneous air targets with different EPRs, different speed and maneuverability characteristics, in different jamming conditions, etc.

          Received Yes

          Quote: gregor6549
          include both field tests and simulation

          Yes. And after the simulation - again full-scale tests. Iterative process, and not the fact that converging laughing

          Quote: gregor6549
          In general, the work is very difficult and time-consuming

          Exactly. So much so that by the end of the work the enemy has a new generation of air defense systems. For instance.

          Thanks for the competent answer. My question was, in fact, in order to cast doubt on your, quite peremptory, IMHO, statement:

          Quote: gregor6549
          at stake, in addition to the money for the air defense system, are the business interests of the oil and gas mafia of the Russian Federation, including all sorts of "Turkish Streams". For the sake of these interests, some who will not only sell the air defense system to Turkey, but also their mother

          After your explanation, this thesis looks, IMHO, at least ... indisputable wink
          1. 0
            25 January 2020 11: 04
            https://youtu.be/MiIidUhx4pQ
            1. -1
              25 January 2020 11: 26
              Quote: gregor6549
              https://youtu.be/MiIidUhx4pQ

              AND? The video is completely neutral ... yours

              Quote: gregor6549
              not only sells air defense systems in Turkey, but also his mother

              - not yet confirmed request

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