Military Review

Turkey proposed integrating S-400 air defense systems into NATO defense system

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Turkey proposed integrating S-400 air defense systems into NATO defense system

Turkey has proposed integrating the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, procured in Russia, into the NATO defense system. The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu made a corresponding proposal.


Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Chavoshoglu said that the Russian S-400 air defense system could be compatible with the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and integrated into NATO's defense system. He proposed the creation of a working group to assess how the S-400 can be combined with alliance systems.

The concern is that the F-35 fighters and the C-400 systems are incompatible ... Let's create a working group, NATO will be able to lead it. Let the experts study this issue and make an assessment

- said the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

Recall that the United States excluded Turkey from the F-35 fighter production program because of Ankara’s purchase of the S-400 air defense system. Washington has expressed concern that the Russian anti-aircraft system "may receive data on the latest fighter."

In turn, Turkey does not intend to abandon the S-400, according to Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the system will be put on combat alert in April 2020. At the same time, Ankara does not exclude the acquisition of an additional batch of anti-aircraft systems. The decision on this will be made following further negotiations with Washington on fifth-generation F-35 aircraft and Patriot systems.
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  1. Theodore
    Theodore 23 January 2020 18: 17 New
    +4
    And there you look and Kalash will accept! repeat
    1. kjhg
      kjhg 23 January 2020 18: 25 New
      +4
      Turkey openly offers NATO to study the S-400, and for this unfreeze the purchase of the F-35. Will the US go for it? So far, it seems, they are not burning with desire. But it could just be a game. They may agree to study, and then they say that they are not compatible. This will be the situation for Turkey and Russia.
      1. Dmitry Donskoy
        Dmitry Donskoy 23 January 2020 18: 46 New
        +4
        So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them. hi Let them try to get inside, and there you look at the virus on all of their F-35 will spread. repeat
        1. The popuas
          The popuas 23 January 2020 19: 11 New
          -9
          Virus wassat padded binomial laughing laughing laughing
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 23 January 2020 19: 20 New
          +16
          Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
          So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them. hi Let them try to get inside, and there you look at the virus on all of their F-35 will spread. repeat

          Even if the mattresses disassemble the S-400 handed over to Turkey by screw, they will not find anything new for themselves. I think they already know about how the S-400 works, since their intelligence is not in vain eating its bread. But ... the main and most coveted trophy for mattresses (and not only in such systems) is the recognition codes of friend or foe. When Belenko hijacked our plane, we got billions of rubles precisely because these codes fell into the hands of the mattresses, which forced us to redraw this system again.
          And our friend-or-foe system is not integrated into the export S-400s. So the dried ears of a hare are mattresses, not secrets.
          1. private person
            private person 23 January 2020 19: 44 New
            +1
            And our friend-or-foe system is not integrated into the export S-400s. So the dried ears of a hare are mattresses, not secrets.

            Where does this information come from? On the recognition system "friend or foe" and built an air defense system. It is possible that this system on export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is there otherwise the Turks will bring down their planes.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 23 January 2020 20: 56 New
              +3
              Quote: private person
              Where does this information come from? On the recognition system "friend or foe" and built an air defense system. It is possible that this system on export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is there otherwise the Turks will bring down their planes.

              They have their own friend or alien system, NATO ... our system to the export S-400, which side? I mean that mattresses really need the codes of our friend or alien system, but in the export version it is not a priori.
              1. Stalllker
                Stalllker 23 January 2020 21: 29 New
                -6
                Well, then what is the point of selling air defense without an Alien-Alien system? What would again fill some sort of our DRYING!?!?! What is stopping you from cutting this algorithm into the “stone” of racket control ?!
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 23 January 2020 21: 41 New
                  +2
                  [quote = Stalllker] Well, then what is the point then to sell air defense without a system of your own-alien? What would again fill some sort of our DRYING!?!?!
                  The point is that a friend or foe system is one of the main secrets of any country. Suppose that the codes of this system have got into the mattress. A NATO plane flies, for example, a nuclear bomb with a bomb on board, and our air defense system identifies it as OWN. And all these bombs are streaming with impunity on our heads, because our air defense identifies these goals as OWN.

                  [quote = Stalllker] What is stopping now in the "stone" of the racket control to gash this algorithm?! [/ quote]
                  Yeah ... if everything was so simple, no one would have been soaring, creating an algorithm terribly complicated so that it would not be cracked.
                  1. Stalllker
                    Stalllker 24 January 2020 00: 10 New
                    -6
                    Your words did not convince at all, some speculation
                  2. dauria
                    dauria 24 January 2020 01: 40 New
                    +1
                    The point is that a friend or foe system is one of the main secrets of any country.


                    Yes, it has been said a hundred times - both of them and our system of 40 years have already been created according to the principle "The enemy has a working model, there is no sense in him. Even if he intercepts all requests and answers on the air.
              2. private person
                private person 23 January 2020 21: 36 New
                0
                our system to export S-400 which side?

                So this bothers the Americans, the NRH is tuned to the airplanes of the conditional enemy. And who is the opponent of Russia?
                1. thanks
                  thanks 24 January 2020 00: 01 New
                  0
                  Quote: private person
                  Where does this information come from? On the recognition system "friend or foe" and built an air defense system. It is possible that this system on export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is there otherwise the Turks will bring down their planes.

                  private person, except automatic mode, there is a manual modewhere the start command is given by the operator according to external information, while the identification mode for the complex is not required. Installation of equipment is possible of international recognition mode, including Russian-made, as well as its national. Many are confused, not knowing our identification system - the equipment of the identification system itself, the structure of the code, and not the request codes themselves, are important, the answers that can change over time ... And in general, forget the topic of discussion of codes that arises from time to time on VO ... All I wrote here is my assumptions based on open materials... If you have a head, then you will understand a lot of what I said!
                  1. thanks
                    thanks 24 January 2020 00: 15 New
                    +1
                    Sorry, opposition - right recognition.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Alex_Rarog
            Alex_Rarog 23 January 2020 20: 06 New
            +3
            At least one sober comment))) the Greeks had c300 and they didn’t rummage around there and nothing has changed ...
            1. neri73-r
              neri73-r 23 January 2020 20: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Alex_Rarog
              At least one sober comment))) the Greeks had c300 and they didn’t rummage around there and nothing has changed ...

              The most important thing in the complex is the operation algorithms, and this is not accessible to mattresses, you cannot figure them out by the screw, you need to understand them.
              1. Alex_Rarog
                Alex_Rarog 23 January 2020 20: 24 New
                +6
                I agree to all 100 !!! Iron without the appropriate software is just iron. And in the export version, software say so adapted)
                1. private person
                  private person 23 January 2020 21: 31 New
                  0
                  And in the export version, software say so adapted)

                  Adapted to what? That the same thing was installed on the S-400 delivered to the Turks, but they did not sell bare iron to them? Moreover, the complex has already been put on the database right there in the article was.
                  1. Alex_Rarog
                    Alex_Rarog 24 January 2020 16: 09 New
                    0
                    Algorithms of work is what is adapted. And I'm more than sure that the difference between them is as great as between Windows 10 and Linux Mint 19.10)
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Pavel57
            Pavel57 24 January 2020 00: 55 New
            +1
            Belenko cost us dearly, but not very expensive, they planned to change the friend or foe system before Belenko.
          5. riwas
            riwas 24 January 2020 05: 49 New
            +2
            Turkish S-400s use a Russian-made system known as the "interrogator." The Inquirer sends and receives encoded signals from friendly aircraft, which identify them as non-hazardous.
            The actual encoded signals that this identification system uses are stored securely in an attached but separate Turkish-made cryptological system, to which we do not have direct access.
            The Turkish government acquired this Russian system primarily due to delays in fully domestic production of an alternative from defense contractor Aselsan. Turkey plans to re-equip its S-400 with its own equipment as soon as it is ready.
        3. major147
          major147 23 January 2020 20: 13 New
          +3
          Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
          So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them.

          According to the Russian state news agency TASS, Russia, in the framework of the agreement concluded with Ankara, supplied Turkey with two S-400 divisions and 120 missiles. The same publication notes that technology will not be transferred, although earlier the Russians had stated "a possible partial transfer of technology."
          The Russian state news agency TASS, citing military-diplomatic sources, reported that, as part of the agreement concluded between Turkey and Russia, two S-400 divisions, 120 anti-aircraft missiles, some spare parts and other necessary items have been handed over to the Turkish Armed Forces (AF) so far. equipment. It was also noted that the deal with Turkey “did not imply technology transfer, even partial”.
        4. Old Michael
          Old Michael 23 January 2020 20: 20 New
          0
          If you happen to run into Windows95, type in the search phrase (along with quotation marks) "the bomb has performed an illegal operation." You will be provided with a good mood!
          1. Roman070280
            Roman070280 24 January 2020 11: 19 New
            0
            But where is she now to get this Windows ..
            On 10-ke nothing happens ..
            1. Old Michael
              Old Michael 24 January 2020 11: 23 New
              0
              It's just a phrase from a wonderful humor about the use of such software in aviation.
        5. PSih2097
          PSih2097 23 January 2020 21: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
          So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them.

          the Trojan horse - in my understanding - the abrupt transformation of SAM into OTRK with special warheads on board ...
      2. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 23 January 2020 18: 46 New
        +6
        Turkey proposed integrating S-400 air defense systems into NATO defense system

        The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree. Thus, they will have to admit that their stealth program of the new aircraft has failed, and this is many billions of dollars that are invested in the promotion of this aircraft and even more in its construction. So the Turks are simply trolling the staff, knowing in advance about the final result.
        1. Kastorkin
          Kastorkin 23 January 2020 18: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: SRC P-15
          The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree.

          So Turkey has already tested S_400 and Erdogan was clearly shocked with joy and the United States immediately began sending overseas ..))
          Quote: SRC P-15
          So the Turks are simply trolling the staff, knowing in advance about the final result.

          And they are very trolling .. I feel that Israel will also ask for the supply of these systems .... Everything is going according to plan.! hi
          So, who will integrate whom else is the question ..
          1. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 23 January 2020 19: 04 New
            +4
            Quote: Kastorkin
            So Turkey has already tested S_400 and Erdogan was clearly shocked with joy and the United States immediately began sending overseas ..))

            I think Erdogan is already F-35 unnecessarily. That is why he is talking about the procurement of the new S-400. hi
            1. Kastorkin
              Kastorkin 23 January 2020 19: 15 New
              0
              Quote: SRC P-15
              I think Erdogan is already F-35 unnecessarily. That is why he talks about the procurement of new S-400

              Erdogan was not needed and was relieved that he didn’t buy such expensive toys .... But he bought additional rockets (150 pcs) for the S-400 systems recently .. hi
              And at the expense of integration, the US is tearing and crippling with anger .. laughing
              And for those who howl they’ll probably study, etc. S-400 is an export option .. And our designers are not suckers to sell all the secrets .. hi
              1. Azim77
                Azim77 23 January 2020 19: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: Kastorkin
                Erdogan was relieved that he didn’t buy such expensive toys

                That this F-35, as "the most expensive gift", the United States could not push him through old friendship. Like other "respected members" this has already been done. Turks are still merchants.
              2. rich
                rich 24 January 2020 01: 18 New
                0
                Kastorkin: I feel .... Everything is going according to plan.! hi

                We are glad to see you again on the forum. Welcome back to your home harbor hi
        2. Tusv
          Tusv 23 January 2020 19: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: SRC P-15
          The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree. Thus, they will have to admit that their stealth program for the new aircraft failed

          Alexander hi I would have recognized the fiasco in place of the Yankees. The grandmother has completely forgotten how to earn money. bully Just explaining the satellites, they say the program started back in the last century, and they gave little money. That the Russians had time to prepare and even launched the S-400 on the market. So we urgently need to develop Penguin II and invest 10 times more so that the Russians do not have time to come up with the S-800.
          Give Penguin II for the price of diamonds
          1. Ezekiel
            Ezekiel 23 January 2020 22: 39 New
            0
            Quote: Tusv
            I would be in place of the Yankees recognized fiasco.

            It's impossible. This will cause a tremendous political crisis. Wasted a lot of money.
            In addition, the elite of the United States is watered by the real combat effectiveness of the systems in the second place. They will be armed with children 40 - 50 and tout as a great plane!
            Well, ladies, this is in our hands ...
        3. Ezekiel
          Ezekiel 23 January 2020 22: 34 New
          -1
          Quote: SRC P-15
          Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree

          This is true!
          Well, probably not like a Christmas tree, but the F-35 target is most likely visible on the screens. Those. Under certain conditions, it is defined precisely as a goal, not a hindrance. Now we need to learn how to select a target and direct missiles at it. Most likely the Turks do not know how to do this yet, but they will learn how to gain experience.
          This is what the Shtatovs are afraid of. It really puts an end to the F-35, and this is a budget disaster.
      3. Kail.kail
        Kail.kail 24 January 2020 05: 14 New
        0
        Where did you get such info?
    2. Fat
      Fat 23 January 2020 20: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Theodore
      And there you look and Kalash will accept! repeat

      What ... Uh ... Kalashnikov and so is any caliber ... AKM 7,62 is in trend, well, greetings from the Union. No one has yet reached the reproduction of the original, and the machine will soon be 90 years old
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 23 January 2020 18: 23 New
    -5
    To make such a decision, it is necessary to create a special commission of professionals from the bloc countries of the bloc countries, and this implies that they will get acquainted with the C400, and many military in NATO will gain access. Thus, the Turks simply, under the guise of integration, simply give out information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that interests us in the first place!
    1. Kleber
      Kleber 23 January 2020 18: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: Thrifty
      Provide information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that is of interest to the United States in the first place!


      I’m hardly mistaken if I assume that the frequency of equipment for Americans is no longer a secret.
    2. anjey
      anjey 23 January 2020 18: 33 New
      +1
      If memory serves, the sultan was already on the Yankees' sight and almost fell a victim of a coup, so he probably would not want to repeat Suleymani’s fate, the S-400 is not in his interests to keep his secrets secret, but he’s constantly flirting with the USA and NATO is a fact and definitely a constant blackmail of opponents, including Russia.
      1. Terenin
        Terenin 23 January 2020 19: 02 New
        +8
        Part of the material from open sources ...
        The first, simplest line of defense is legal. When signing the contract, very serious requirements were placed on the buying side. In particular, Turkey does not have the right to disassemble the complex, make changes to it and maintain it. All maintenance work is carried out only by Russia. Also, no documentation (production data) is transmitted to Turkey. If Russian experts detect interference in the system, then Russia has the right to take these systems back or turn them off (this was told by the presidential aide for military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin).
        1. The popuas
          The popuas 23 January 2020 19: 15 New
          -2
          Legal!? .... and how much has Russia won in the world from the point of view of jurisprudence? ... The only way, in my opinion, will be bombed on these complexes if I climb into them! The rest is all bullshit.
          1. Terenin
            Terenin 23 January 2020 21: 39 New
            +2
            Quote: Popuas
            Legal!? .... and how much has Russia won in the world from the point of view of jurisprudence? ... The only way, in my opinion, will be bombed on these complexes if I climb into them! The rest is all bullshit.

            angry - From here, guys, our Motherland dictates its unshakable will to the rest of the world community.
            -May we bang?
            - Be sure to bang! And more than once!
            The whole world is in ruin! ... But then.
            laughing a hero from your Avatar, from the movie "DMB"
        2. Avior
          Avior 23 January 2020 21: 46 New
          0
          Vladimir Kozhin relieved of his post of assistant to the President for military-technical cooperation

          The President signed the Decree “On V. Kozhin.”

          June 13, 2018 16:50
          Decree text:

          1. To dismiss Kozhin Vladimir Igorevich from the post of Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation on military-technical cooperation.

          2. This Decree comes into force from the date of its signing.

          http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/57769
          Kozhin's statement is very strange, such contracts simply do not exist.
          Everything that you wrote, usually leads only to the loss of warranty.
          I can’t even imagine how the complex will be taken from Turkey
          hi
          1. Terenin
            Terenin 23 January 2020 22: 30 New
            +3
            Quote: Avior
            Kozhin's statement is very strange, such contracts simply do not exist.

            May be. And what is the strangeness and what kind of contracts are there?

            Quote: Avior
            Everything that you wrote, usually leads only to the loss of warranty.

            I quoted Kozhin (word for word)
            Quote: Avior
            I can’t even imagine how the complex will be taken from Turkey

            laughing maybe like in a movie ... "the S-400 blast timer goes off at the border with ... Kazakhstan"
            hi
            1. Avior
              Avior 23 January 2020 23: 51 New
              0
              I quoted Kozhin (word for word)

              No doubt. I know where it comes from.
              From an article that appeared in mid-December 2018 and was immediately distributed on the network without an author
              http://in24.org/technology/34596?utm_source=warfiles.ru
              the anonymous author either did not know, or was sure that no one would check and did not bother, that Kozhin had long been no longer an adviser
              hi
              1. Terenin
                Terenin 23 January 2020 23: 57 New
                +2
                Quote: Avior
                the anonymous author either did not know, or was sure that no one would check and did not bother, that Kozhin had long been no longer an adviser

                Maybe. Thank you for the clarification hi
    3. Fat
      Fat 23 January 2020 20: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      To make such a decision, it is necessary to create a special commission of professionals from the bloc countries of the bloc countries, and this implies that they will get acquainted with the C400, and many military in NATO will gain access. Thus, the Turks simply, under the guise of integration, simply give out information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that interests us in the first place!

      Nonsense! All "secret cleanliness" For you personally, "secret" .get in 300 and 400 is nothing unnecessarily unique and "secret." In addition to very competent software and rockets, then perceiving software.
      "Purity" ... I cried ...
  3. ugol2
    ugol2 23 January 2020 18: 26 New
    +8
    Integrate male into wolf pack?
    1. Kleber
      Kleber 23 January 2020 18: 34 New
      +5
      Rather, a wolf in a dog pack.
      1. Major Yurik
        Major Yurik 23 January 2020 19: 02 New
        +3
        Quote: Kleber
        Rather, a wolf in a dog pack.

        ... and the fourth machine gun, bastard, in its own way! (Papandopulo monologue from the movie Wedding in Robin)

        Here is a typical example of the integration of foreign weapons for bad purposes! And what, everything can be incorporated into the design ....! laughing
        1. Fat
          Fat 23 January 2020 21: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: Major Yurik
          Here is a typical example of the integration of foreign weapons for bad purposes! And what, everything can be incorporated into the design ....!

          And what can be sewn into the instructions ...
          Tell me, commander. What is this pink button for? Yes, God knows, but according to observations, it should be blue. But the instructions say white. And if you click? ... And ... Come on, the failure is clear, but the Europeans are of little use. States of their pros send thousands ...
  4. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 23 January 2020 18: 27 New
    -3
    This is what NATO members will have access to the s-400 and the opportunity to learn, normally sold so
    1. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 24 January 2020 08: 21 New
      -1
      they already know everything)))) and they can’t open the secrets)))
  5. Flatter
    Flatter 23 January 2020 18: 35 New
    -1
    It's time. And then NATO bases around Russia can not be counted, but they still do not know what to do with its air defense.
  6. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 23 January 2020 18: 36 New
    -4
    Or maybe it is worthwhile to warn the Turkes that when such movements continue, the complexes will be destroyed along with the erdogadic?
  7. knn54
    knn54 23 January 2020 18: 38 New
    0
    But PERSONALLY promised that they would not integrate.
    1. Kleber
      Kleber 23 January 2020 19: 04 New
      +1
      “To promise does not mean to marry” (c) Especially when it comes to the promises of politicians.
      1. Fat
        Fat 23 January 2020 21: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Kleber
        “To promise does not mean to marry” (c) Especially when it comes to the promises of politicians.

        That’s the plan * if the slate is on the head and go prove that MY roof. And the wind ... A storm happens.
  8. FORCE 38GB
    FORCE 38GB 23 January 2020 18: 41 New
    0
    Turks! You do not go too far !!!
  9. Polymer
    Polymer 23 January 2020 18: 42 New
    +5
    Level 80 Trolling from Chavoshoglu! laughing
    Without Russian specialists, there can be no integration, and this means that both sides will receive information - both NATO about the S-400, and Russia about the F-35. And they will become interdependent, which eliminates the "hot" conflict. However, while the Russian Federation is approaching the S-500, of which little is known, then NATO (read - the United States) does not have any immediate contact lists. This will allow Russia to win some time. Well, then a new round of the arms race.
  10. Cananecat
    Cananecat 23 January 2020 18: 47 New
    +2
    Why are you so worried? Well, the Turks offered to check C400 on F35, so what? Let the Americans be surprised. Ours are also not stupid, that would just merge secrets.
    1. FORCE 38GB
      FORCE 38GB 23 January 2020 18: 52 New
      +1
      In ATMs, when hacked, money is doused with paint, and when the power is off, the signaling is triggered! :) Why talk about military equipment ... Although it is an export version. All sorts of different "liquidators" probably crammed ..
      1. Fat
        Fat 23 January 2020 22: 24 New
        0
        Quote: FORCE 38RUS
        In ATMs, when hacked, money is doused with paint, and when the power is off, the signaling is triggered! :) Why talk about military equipment ... Although it is an export version. All sorts of different "liquidators" probably crammed ..

        Oh well .. On .. The air defense system is not even a pair of batteries. It’s even difficult to understand from the kit, but there is no chance to reproduce and deceive, except in case of luck. So, having sold s400 to the Turks, we included them in our own system for responding to VK threats.
        Not complexes with the US 400 are nasty, but the competition of space control systems.
        Erdogan needs state control not for Kommersant
        cowards in the steam room.
        And there is a NATO coward, there is a broom with a 400 hosh, take a steam bath and hosh. half metal.
  11. Old26
    Old26 23 January 2020 18: 48 New
    +3
    I wonder when and where was the photograph taken at the beginning of the article? On capyar? EMNIP such chassis has not been used in the S-400 system for quite some time, almost 10 years

    Quote: rotkiv04
    This is what NATO members will have access to the s-400 and the opportunity to learn, normally sold so

    What do you want? It must be either-or. Either sell (almost at every corner we say that it is their turn) or keep secrets without selling anything. Do you seriously think that if we sell the S-400 to Saudi Arabia, then the Americans will not get access to them? Or to any other country?
    1. rotkiv04
      rotkiv04 23 January 2020 18: 55 New
      +1
      We must think to whom to sell, and not just anyhow to sell. Turks are historical enemies of Russia and always will be, no gas treaties will fix it
    2. Old Michael
      Old Michael 23 January 2020 20: 36 New
      +1
      Do you seriously think that if we sell the S-400 to Saudi Arabia, then the Americans will not get access to them?

      So after all, secrets are different secrets.
      A lot of comments mentioning the "friend or foe" system. Obviously, such systems are built using powerful cryptographic protection (including, among other things, cryptographic stability, immunity and noise immunity).
      And modern views on such systems are based on a simple but very important requirement: even having a comprehensive understanding of the algorithms and the hardware platform, it is impossible to open or simulate the intercepted information in a reasonable amount of time. This is ensured by the characteristics and methods of using crypto keys.
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 23 January 2020 18: 52 New
    +2
    Cool ??? Go understand these eastern rulers.
  13. Old26
    Old26 23 January 2020 19: 12 New
    0
    Quote: rotkiv04
    We must think to whom to sell, and not just anyhow to sell. Turks are historical enemies of Russia and always will be, no gas treaties will fix it

    To whom to sell? And what, wishing in line are hustling?
    Countries that bought from us can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Algeria, China. Yes, and Turkey. The rest, too, can you name our friends? Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Maybe Pakistan or Morocco? Iraq, which either wants to buy, sometimes does not want, then wants again ...
    So you have to sell, as you write, "anyhow to whom." no one else wants, or they have no money.
  14. Kerensky
    Kerensky 23 January 2020 19: 40 New
    0
    In a peak situation, the United States will prepare its operators in Turkish complexes. And all within the framework of the contract.
  15. Old26
    Old26 23 January 2020 20: 18 New
    0
    Quote: private person
    It is possible that this system on export S-400 is not the same as that of our air defense, but it is there otherwise the Turks will bring down their planes.

    So Andrew wrote OUR SYSTEM OF OWN-ALIEN is not integrated into export air defense systems. They have their own
  16. Old26
    Old26 23 January 2020 20: 39 New
    0
    Quote: stock buildbat
    Or maybe it is worthwhile to warn the Turkes that when such movements continue, the complexes will be destroyed along with the erdogadic?

    Want to start a war with NATO?
  17. Old26
    Old26 23 January 2020 21: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: Terenin
    The first, simplest line of defense is legal. When signing the contract, very serious requirements were placed on the buying side. In particular, Turkey does not have the right to disassemble the complex, make changes to it and maintain it.

    Then how can one understand the statement that Russia will provide warranty service for 20 months? And then what, for maintenance, the Turks will do with us for money? You have to understand that legally Turks are full of suckers, since you agree to this?
    They do not have the right to disassemble the complex during the warranty period. Warranty period is coming to an end - they can disassemble and make changes if there is enough "intelligence and ingenuity." Another thing is that in such contracts there is an “end-user certificate” that governs whether a country can re-export or cannot export it anywhere.

    Quote: Terenin
    Also, no documentation (production data) is transmitted to Turkey. If Russian experts detect interference in the system, then Russia has the right to take these systems back or turn them off (this was told by the presidential aide for military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin).

    Yeah. And after the completion of warranty service, the Turks will repair the complexes using the "scientific pump?" Method Some kind of concept you have about the contract. If you paid for something, then it is YOURS. And no one can take it from you. Another thing is that for the period of warranty service you will have some restrictions

    Quote: SRC P-15
    The USA will never agree to this! Having integrated the S-400 into the NATO defense system, they will understand that their F-35 super-wafer glows on the radars of our complex like a Christmas tree. Thus, they will have to admit that their stealth program of the new aircraft has failed, and this is many billions of dollars that are invested in the promotion of this aircraft and even more in its construction. So the Turks are simply trolling the staff, knowing in advance about the final result.

    They will go for integration, and it’s completely calm. They are well aware that the longer the wavelength of the radar, the better it can see "stealth" (further). On a millimeter or centimeter range, "stealth" can be seen very close, but on meter-long radars at the limit of their detection range. Do not think that Americans are so stupid that they do not know physics
    So their "35th" program did not fail. The main countries where it can be used may not have meter stations. They are unlikely where, except for Russia, they are massively used ...
  18. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 23 January 2020 22: 51 New
    -2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
    So maybe the sale of Turkey S-400, it was so conceived. Maybe our Trojan horse was sold to them. hi Let them try to get inside, and there you look at the virus on all of their F-35 will spread. repeat

    Even if the mattresses disassemble the S-400 handed over to Turkey by screw, they will not find anything new for themselves. I think they already know about how the S-400 works, since their intelligence is not in vain eating its bread. But ... the main and most coveted trophy for mattresses (and not only in such systems) is the recognition codes of friend or foe. When Belenko hijacked our plane, we got billions of rubles precisely because these codes fell into the hands of the mattresses, which forced us to redraw this system again.
    And our friend-or-foe system is not integrated into the export S-400s. So the dried ears of a hare are mattresses, not secrets.

    And what, the mind is not enough to understand that the codes were not passed to them. And if they did, then not ours. Is it so hard to change what any beginner can do? Modern opportunities can do wonders- change them several times a day. In Belennko’s time, ROMs were stitched into rings with wires. And to change the blocks is to change dozens of connectors, after having previously taken them out of the safes, according to the schedule, with just transferred special packages. testing on stands in rooms with iron doors.
  19. Andrzej k
    Andrzej k 23 January 2020 23: 01 New
    +1
    The S-400 in the NATO defense system would be a real Trojan horse.
  20. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 23 January 2020 23: 06 New
    -2
    Quote: Thrifty
    To make such a decision, it is necessary to create a special commission of professionals from the bloc countries of the bloc countries, and this implies that they will get acquainted with the C400, and many military in NATO will gain access. Thus, the Turks simply, under the guise of integration, simply give out information, including on the cleanliness of the equipment that interests us in the first place!

    Americans knew PURITY already at the stage of testing the layout of the equipment. You can’t hide megawatts, and only 80-120 km to the satellite. Transmitters can be worked out for the equivalent load. But in this mode, you can’t see either the antenna diagrams or the range of vision / hearing. Nothing. In milliseconds, scanning receivers inspect the entire radio range. From extra long to millimeters. And they impose radiation with all the characteristics on a map of the area over which a curious apparatus flies at that time. We do exactly the same. So, the secret is only in the COMPLEX of resolving issues. From the school where the station operators trained to the soldier in the trench.
  21. Diviz
    Diviz 23 January 2020 23: 15 New
    0
    Imperial habits and who you are, Turkey you used all your life.
  22. Glenni
    Glenni 24 January 2020 07: 50 New
    -2
    Do not forget to put a bookmark there for yourself?
  23. gregor6549
    gregor6549 24 January 2020 11: 22 New
    0
    I read the comments and decided to add my five cents.
    1. The ground-based radar interrogator (NRZ) of the state recognition system is generally a separate equipment that is either integrated into or attached to the air defense system of the air defense system. Naturally, there was never any talk about the transfer / sale of domestic Turkish refineries to Turkey, and it can. Yes, Turkey doesn’t need it either. All Turkish air defense systems use NATO NRZ.
    2. Unfortunately, there is something to profit from in the S400 and without NRZ. This is the composition and algorithms and operation of the radar complex, this is the design of missiles and their performance characteristics, and much, much more. And in order to learn all this, it is not at all necessary to get into machine codes of the computer complex of the air defense system and its components. It’s enough to competently draw up a test program for air defense systems and clearly implement it, and everything that is necessary and sufficient to know for a successful counteraction to the air defense system will become clear as a day.

    Therefore, the sale of the S400 air defense system to one of the NATO members, which, moreover, has always been a "sworn friend" of Russia, i.e. Turkey, it looks like the desire of some in the Government and the defense industry of the Russian Federation to earn big money even at the cost of betraying the national interests of the Russian Federation. Moreover, these grandmothers, as a rule, swim past the hungry mouths of industrialists and not only them.

    Against this background, the history of Turkey’s downing of a Russian plane in Syria, which both sides quickly tried to hush up, looks more than strange.

    In general, it seems that in Russia the greatest attention is paid to those weapons systems that can be quickly and profitably (for someone) sold to anyone who can pay for these systems.

    This trend began after the collapse of the Union (recall the sale of the C300 in the United States in the early 90s) and has now gained such momentum that you do not know to be surprised or horrified. Although there is nothing to be surprised if, apart from the headstock for the air defense system, the interests of the oil and gas mafia of the Russian Federation, including all kinds of Turkish Streams, are at stake. For the sake of these interests, some people will not only sell air defense systems to Turkey, but also their mother.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 24 January 2020 11: 38 New
      -3
      Quote: gregor6549
      It’s enough to competently draw up a test program for air defense systems and clearly implement it, and everything that is necessary and sufficient to know to successfully counter air defense systems will become clear as day

      Beautifully written. Do it yourself - take it? wink

      If suddenly the answer is “yes” - I would like at least a couple of strokes - what exactly and how do you intend to test. Purely for "a little specificity" yes
      1. gregor6549
        gregor6549 24 January 2020 16: 03 New
        0
        What do you mean by yourself? Such things are usually done by reputable teams and include both field tests and simulation modeling. Simulation alone requires intense multi-day work of system engineers, programmers, hardware engineers and many other specialists and related software and hardware, including stationary high-speed computers.
        On such models, various scenarios of possible military operations are played and the effectiveness of, for example, air defense systems (SAM, IA, etc.) is determined in these scenarios. Then the data obtained on simulation models are checked at training ranges and military exercises using real military equipment.
        In general, the work is very difficult and time-consuming. But such things were done in the 70s of the last century, they are being done now. If we talk about some particulars, for example, one of the goals of the tests can be to identify the effectiveness of air defense systems for detecting and tracking heterogeneous air targets with different EPRs, different speed and maneuverability characteristics, in different jamming conditions, etc. Alas, you can’t tell in the comment.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 24 January 2020 21: 06 New
          -1
          Quote: gregor6549
          One of the goals of the tests may be to identify the effectiveness of air defense systems for detecting and tracking heterogeneous air targets with different EPRs, different speed and maneuverability characteristics, in different jamming conditions, etc.

          Received yes

          Quote: gregor6549
          include both field tests and simulation

          Yes. And after the simulation - again full-scale tests. Iterative process, and not the fact that converging laughing

          Quote: gregor6549
          In general, the work is very difficult and time-consuming

          Exactly. So much so that by the end of the work the enemy has a new generation of air defense systems. For instance.

          Thanks for the competent answer. My question was, in fact, in order to cast doubt on your, quite peremptory, IMHO, statement:

          Quote: gregor6549
          apart from the headstock for the air defense system, the interests of the oil and gas mafia of the Russian Federation, including all sorts of "Turkish Streams", are at stake. For the sake of these interests, some people will not only sell air defense systems to Turkey, but also their mother

          After your explanation, this thesis looks, IMHO, at least ... indisputable wink
          1. gregor6549
            gregor6549 25 January 2020 11: 04 New
            0
            https://youtu.be/MiIidUhx4pQ
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 25 January 2020 11: 26 New
              -1
              Quote: gregor6549
              https://youtu.be/MiIidUhx4pQ

              AND? The video is completely neutral ... yours

              Quote: gregor6549
              not only sells air defense systems in Turkey, but also his mother

              - not yet confirmed request