The words of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy about the "childhood diseases" of the Zircon rockets were commented on by the doctor of military sciences


The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov, told RIA today News that the first ship of the Militaryfleet the country armed with hypersonic anti-ship missiles Zircon will become one of the frigates of new projects. We can talk about frigates of projects 11356 (code "Petrel", the head "Admiral Grigorovich") or 22350 (the head - "Admiral Gorshkov").


Eumenov for RIA News:

Zircon will be placed on one of the warships of the fleet, frigates. Modernization will take place, and we will test it in order to remove various “childhood diseases”. Now his tests are successful. While we put on all the ships "Caliber" and in parallel we will test the "Zircon", - said Evmenov.

According to Admiral Evmenov, the Zircons will begin to be supplied to the Russian Navy in the coming years.

Military Review asked the doctor of military sciences, professor Vladimir Dudko, to comment on the statement about "children's diseases" of Zircon anti-ship missiles. Rear Admiral Dudko is a member of the expert council of the Russian Officers organization, and is a full member of the Academy of Military Sciences.

According to Professor Dudko, the Zircon is today an unsurpassed missile, which we have created and which no potential adversaries have yet. As the doctor of military sciences notes, at the test stage, those flaws are identified that can be eliminated before being put into service.

Rear Admiral Vladimir Dudko:

This missile is capable of destroying even aircraft carrier formations on the approaches to our shores. She basically can not be shot down. In practice, it has no opposition. Missile defense weaponscapable of intercepting it, while none of the potential opponents simply do not. Regarding the so-called "childhood diseases" ... One of them is the adjustment of the start conditions. The ship is experiencing enormous loads at the launch of such a rocket. And this must be taken into account by the developers of the rocket in relation to the arming of frigates. The second is work on accelerators that bring Zircon to hypersonic speed. These nuances require practical refinement, which is what they are doing now amid testing.
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  1. K-50 21 January 2020 16: 12 New
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    The ship is experiencing enormous loads at the launch of such a rocket. And this must be taken into account by the developers of the rocket in relation to the arming of frigates.

    And what about the “cold” (mortar) start does not fit? With it, it doesn’t matter what speed the “product” then picks up. Just a gentle regime for starting and ship structures. what
    1. Operator 21 January 2020 16: 21 New
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      Judging by the pearl, "huge loads at launch [from universal silos]," Dr. Dudko is far from rocketry laughing
      1. Mavrikiy 21 January 2020 16: 52 New
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        One of them is the adjustment of the launch conditions. The ship is experiencing enormous loads at the launch of such a rocket. And this must be taken into account by the developers of the rocket in relation to the arming of frigates.
        If the ship is afraid of "huge loads at the launch of such a rocket," then the ship must be designed for a rocket, not a rocket for a ship. But a cold start without shock overloads does not happen, and not every rocket can withstand them. With a "hot" start, the compression load of the rocket grows quickly, but constantly. request
        Rear Admiral, Doctor Doctor of Military Sciences, Doctor of Economics, Professor, Full Member of the Academy of Military Sciences, International Engineering Academy, etc.
        In the Armed Forces from June 1966 to May 1996. He resigned from the post of Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Navy - On-duty Admiral CKP Navy.
        He commanded the atomic submarine of the Pacific Fleet.
        Since 1996, he worked in the CIS Ministry of Cooperation, director of the Intergosbank in the structure of the CIS and the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, the State Duma, the Council of the Federation of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Energy and other financial and government structures of Russia.
        Che stuck to a man, he has been a quarter of a century thinks, and tell him about a rocket .... request
        1. Operator 21 January 2020 16: 57 New
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          Keyword - universal ShPU, in connection with which the mine (and the ship) is absolutely violet, which starts with the mortar - “Caliber” or “Zircon”, because acceleration of a cruise missile to 0,9 M or 9 M occurs already in the air under the influence of a solid fuel accelerator.
          1. Mavrikiy 21 January 2020 17: 23 New
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            request You are deaf. Your USPU may be wonderful, but the rocket may not be designed for H. start and will have to be redone. request He studied rocket technology, and the admiral worked with her, but he has been counting money for banks for 25 years, see my post above. request
            1. arkadiyssk 22 January 2020 19: 21 New
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              And with a cold start, missiles from universal installations will start - for example, American SM anti-aircraft missiles. They cut engines directly into MK41. For this purpose, exhaust gas channels are provided in the UVP, which simply eject a stream of gases upward while the ravet is accelerated and goes outside. In any case, the launch there is no semblance of firing a rocket - like a cannon, when the recoil goes to the hull.
          2. bayard 22 January 2020 00: 04 New
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            The launcher in the UKKS is not designed for a mortar start, but for a hot one - on a running accelerator engine.
            It is important !
            UKKS already exist. "Zircon is placed in them and can start from them.
            But. The Zircon launch accelerator has MUCH great thrust, and therefore the pressure and temperature are much higher. A UKKS must withstand.
            Therefore, now they are apparently conjuring a decrease in thrust at the rocket’s exit from the launcher, so that they don’t have to make a special launcher for the Zircon, but dispense with the standard launcher already on the ships.
            The main thing is that the rocket flies, hits, now it remains to provide a "soft start".
            The UKKSK is not designed for a mortar launch.
            1. Operator 22 January 2020 01: 58 New
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              It is quite possible that this is so - is solved by a dual-mode starting accelerator.
        2. Krasnoyarsk 21 January 2020 18: 55 New
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          Quote: Mavrikiy
          With a "hot" start, the compression load of the rocket grows quickly, but constantly.

          I would also add - shockless, which is important for the ship.
          1. bayard 22 January 2020 00: 08 New
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            Quote: Krasnoyarsk

            I would also add - shockless, which is important for the ship.

            And for the rocket too. The “gauges” for the mortar launch were not exactly calculated, and the UKKS was made specifically for them. And the Onyxes.
      2. Aqr009 21 January 2020 17: 22 New
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        Zircon with a TT accelerator is a rather long and heavy rocket and, even with a mortar launch, undesirable vibrations can occur during launch from a launcher located on the ground. Therefore, the rocket needs to be smoothly pushed out, as a result of which the pushing height decreases. Further, the impact of a jet of flame from the start of a powerful TT accelerator can affect the launcher itself and other elements of the ship.
        Now imagine all this together while the ship is rolling, well, etc ...
        1. Operator 21 January 2020 17: 30 New
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          Quote: Aqr009
          Zircon with TT accelerator - a rather long and heavy rocket

          Where can I find the TTX Zircon?

          a jet of flame from the start of a powerful TT accelerator can affect the launcher itself and other elements of the ship

          It can’t - the solid fuel accelerator turns on after the rocket turns in the air to a horizontal position (see the video of Caliber launches).
          1. Aqr009 21 January 2020 17: 49 New
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            It can’t - the solid fuel accelerator turns on after the rocket turns in the air to a horizontal position (see the video of Caliber launches).

            Caliber and Zircon rockets of different classes. In Caliber, a turbojet engine and the sooner it goes into horizontal flight, the better.
            Zircon needs to be thrown higher, where the atmosphere is thinner, and the fastest and most economical way to do this is vertical flight.
            1. Operator 21 January 2020 17: 52 New
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              And what prevents the rocket from being turned after launch not by 90 degrees, but by 10-20 degrees so that the solid-fuel accelerator torch is not directed to the deck of the ship?

              The same “Caliber” first rises with the help of a solid-fuel accelerator almost vertically to a height of ~ 300 meters, and only then it goes into horizontal flight with a set speed of up to 0,9 M.
              1. Aqr009 21 January 2020 17: 59 New
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                And what prevents you from tightening the rocket after launch not by 90 degrees, but by 10-20

                Well, apparently this is one of the childhood diseases yes
          2. Captain Pushkin 21 January 2020 19: 18 New
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            Quote: Operator
            Where can I find the TTX Zircon?

            There is one guy in the CIA, I forgot my name. Turn to him, tell me. He and TTX "Zircon" will report and reveal the source of knowledge.
          3. bayard 22 January 2020 00: 15 New
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            Quote: Operator
            It can’t - the solid fuel accelerator turns on after the rocket turns in the air to a horizontal position (see the video of Caliber launches).

            You are confused with the launch of Onyx. So he starts.
            The caliber leaves the PU vertically and lays down on a course with climb and acceleration in the horizontal plane.
            Zircon needs a two-stroke accelerator - with reduced traction at the start and maximum - at a safe altitude and range from the ship.
      3. Spambox 22 January 2020 08: 17 New
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        I am confused in this story with hyper sound at one point how they solved the problem of accumulation of radio-opaque plasma in front of the nose cone of a rocket at such speeds. If this problem is not solved, then you cannot use an active guidance head, which means that the rocket must continuously receive external target designation, which significantly reduces the conditions for its use and combat characteristics.
        1. Voyager 22 January 2020 15: 41 New
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          And in the context of the Vanguard you are not confused by the same moment?
          1. Spambox 22 January 2020 17: 50 New
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            It is embarrassing, but while the Vanguard is not in the dense layers of the atmosphere, a plasma does not form, and I doubt that there the ARGS head
            1. Voyager 22 January 2020 18: 04 New
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              According to officially provided data, the Vanguard remains controllable when heated to 2000 degrees and under conditions of plasma formation. The GDP personally stated that the issue of controllability in a plasma environment was resolved.
        2. Passing 22 January 2020 17: 40 New
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          Quote: Spambox
          accumulations of radio-opaque plasma in front of the nose fairing of the rocket at such speeds

          At such speeds, there is no such problem. S-300 missiles are proof of this.
          1. Spambox 22 January 2020 17: 49 New
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            Missiles with 300 do not have an active homing head there. PARGSN, if I am not mistaken, after working off the accelerator, it flies constantly losing speed and in the terminal section when the guidance head turns on, plasma formation in front of the fairing is not observed, with C 350 ARGS
            1. Passing 22 January 2020 18: 20 New
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              1) Explain to me what is the difference between PARGSN and ARGS in the context of the discussion? I don't watch her.
              2) By your logic, it turns out that until the rocket slows down by braking the atmosphere, its GOS does not work? Those. Already at the declared 5 km minimum range, does the rocket speed drop from 2000 m / s to 1000 m / s? This is not serious. How then she will fly another 195 km.
              PS: 1000m / s is the figure that Caliber has, the engine runs continuously, there is a radar seeker, i.e. for him, operability at such a speed is proved.
              1. Spambox 22 January 2020 18: 32 New
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                At the declared minimum range of 5 km, the rocket does not gain such speed. I assume that the mode and time of the accelerator are set relative to the removal of the target. In the context of what is being discussed, a rocket flies in a radio command manner (by targeting from the ground) until it slows down, because at a hypersonic speed a cocoon is formed from a radio-opaque plasma.
                The principle of operation of the PARGSN just assumes that the target is illuminated and the missile is guided from the ground in the main flight area until the missile approaches the target and can not capture the reflected signal from the backlight radar.
                1. Passing 22 January 2020 18: 46 New
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                  1) From your argument it follows that, in the context of the discussion, there is no difference between the PARSN and the ARGS. For at the initial stage, they both fly on the TS from the earth.
                  2) https://wartools.ru/pvo-rossiya-sssr/zrs-s-400-triumf/
                  for 48N6E / 48N6 engine run time 12 sec.
                  Those. you say that in 12 seconds, the rocket will fly less than 5 km?
                2. Passing 22 January 2020 18: 58 New
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                  Quote: Spambox
                  At the declared minimum range of 5 km, the rocket does not gain such speed.

                  Let it not pick up, it turns out when it picks up, say, at 10 km range, then, according to your logic, the GOS becomes inoperative, then the speed drops, and say at a distance of 50 km, it starts working again.
                  Now show me where it is written that the range of action in range does not look like 5-200 km, but 5-10 + 50-200 km.
                  1. Spambox 22 January 2020 21: 58 New
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                    You get away from the topic, I don’t undertake to discuss the engine’s operating time and the range of the missiles, but I argue that the AGSN does not work at hypersonic speeds, since a plasma radiopaque cocoon is formed in front of the rocket.
                    The phenomenon of plasma formation at hypersonic speeds and communication breakage was discovered during the Mercury project, and then the Gemini and Apollo programs. It manifested itself at a drop altitude of about 90 kilometers and to a mark of 40 kilometers - as a result of rapid heating of the surface of a capsule falling in the atmosphere, a plasma cloud is formed on its surface, acting as a kind of electromagnetic screen.
                    Here is a good article on this topic:
                    http://integral-russia.ru/2017/02/07/svyaz-s-orbitoj-tehnologicheskij-proryv-cherez-plazmu/
                    1. Passing 22 January 2020 22: 09 New
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                      Quote: Spambox
                      at hypersonic speeds, the AGSN does not work, since a plasma radio-opaque cocoon is formed in front of the rocket

                      Who argues. At some speeds formed. and interferes.
                      Quote: Spambox
                      I do not presume to discuss the time of the engine and the range of the missiles

                      We are not discussing a general theory, but a very specific product - the Zircon rocket. So the specific parameters of similar products give us a specific answer, whether your hypothesis is true or not.
                      1. Spambox 22 January 2020 22: 27 New
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                        Regarding the Zircon rocket, I just wondered how they solved this problem. You claimed
                        . At such speeds, there is no such problem. S-300 missiles are proof of this.
                        to which I replied that there is a hyper sound and in this section the rocket does not use GOS. Now you write me
                        .Who argues. At some speeds formed. and interferes
                        It turns out that there are still problems with radio permeability on hyper sound.
                        My question is to the pros in this field, or to rocketers, remains open.
                      2. Passing 22 January 2020 22: 50 New
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                        Sorry, there was a misunderstanding, I thought you were in search of the truth, I wanted to help, brought facts and arguments, and you have religious beliefs, you already know everything for sure, and simply urged like-minded people by faith in their fasting.
                      3. Spambox 22 January 2020 22: 58 New
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                        Faith has nothing to do with it. There is a specific physical phenomenon and problems associated with it. I just wondered how this problem was solved.
                      4. Passing 22 January 2020 23: 12 New
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                        So I’m talking about this, you BELIEVE that such a problem exists for the Zircon rocket. All the arguments that such a problem does not exist for a 48N6 rocket with a similar velocity do not exist. For the dogmas of faith are a priori true, which means that everything that contradicts dogmas is 100% false.
                      5. Spambox 22 January 2020 23: 24 New
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                        I do not know the exact characteristics of the Zircon rocket and you do not know. And I don’t know about her problems and childhood illnesses (topic of the article), I just assume that one of the problems that needed to be solved is connected with a specific physical phenomenon. Based on this, I wonder how this problem was solved. hi
                      6. Piramidon 23 January 2020 12: 11 New
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                        Quote: Spambox
                        I do not know the exact characteristics of the Zircon rocket and you do not know.

                        And the one who knows has given a non-disclosure subscription. Therefore to your question
                        I wonder how this problem was solved
                        getting an answer will be problematic. request
                        Take advice from Peter
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        Quote: Operator
                        Where can I find the TTX Zircon?

                        There is one guy in the CIA, I forgot my name. Turn to him, tell me. He and TTX "Zircon" will report and reveal the source of knowledge.

                        laughing
  • TermNachTer 21 January 2020 16: 30 New
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    Yeah, the explanations somehow do not shine. Uncle is either off topic or "dark" for reasons of secrecy. I think, all the same, the second, because the rear admiral should know at least elementary things.
  • Romka 21 January 2020 16: 34 New
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    Well then, you need to come up with another excuse. What are you, by golly ...
  • AVA77 21 January 2020 16: 36 New
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    In fact, there can be any restrictions, both in terms of the container’s resistance to mortar launch and dimensions, the rocket itself + boosters + powder charge for a mortar launch, but there are some nuances. The main thing is not to stop and bring the product to service.
  • Thrifty 21 January 2020 17: 07 New
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    I would be very surprised if they wrote that everything is going great, there are no problems! But honestly they said that there are problems. And that of right now and eliminate. ..
  • seregin-s1 21 January 2020 17: 20 New
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    (UVP) 3C14 "Gauges" and "Onyx" launches the most that is hot way. So you need to redo the PU.
    1. Avior 21 January 2020 18: 38 New
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      You are wrong. No hot start
      A hot start means turning on the rocket engine directly to the UVP
      Cold start - when a rocket is thrown to a height in one way or another and only then does the rocket engine start.
      1. seregin-s1 21 January 2020 18: 58 New
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        So watch the video!
        1. Avior 21 January 2020 19: 50 New
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          This is exactly what you see on the video-marching engine you start already after leaving the cell under the influence of the starting charge by the rocket
          For Americans, when the rocket is hot-launched, the mid-flight engine starts right in the cell and it pushes the rocket out
      2. seregin-s1 21 January 2020 19: 07 New
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        https://youtu.be/jLHO6s-wL68
  • opus 21 January 2020 20: 02 New
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    Quote: K-50
    Just a gentle regime for starting and ship structures.

    Mk41, Mk48 / Mk56, Sylver will not agree with you.
    A hot start does no harm to anyone

    From the ends, the container is hermetically sealed with membrane plugs of rubber-impregnated fiberglass. The plugs provide protection for the container from the shock wave that occurs during the launch of an adjacent rocket, but they are destroyed by the start of the jet engine inside the container when the internal pressure reaches 2.7 atm. The heat-resistant coating inside the container provides up to 8 launches.

    The gas exhaust system, common to all eight module missiles, consists of a pressure chamber and a channel, which are coated with heat-resistant material, designed for the increased pressure and temperature created by the jet stream. The unit is equipped with forced ventilation to remove toxic components of rocket fuel. After launching the rocket, the ventilation system must work for at least 20 minutes before service personnel gain access to the launcher and at least 1 minute for each subsequent hour, while the personnel remain in the installation.

    +
    there is water all around dofig.
    1. rich 22 January 2020 00: 33 New
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      The words of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy about the "childhood diseases" of the Zircon rockets were commented by a doctor (military sciences)

      Children's diseases can be cured much more effectively than senile hi
      1. opus 22 January 2020 02: 03 New
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        Quote: Rich
        Children's diseases can be cured much more effectively than senile

        I completely agree, I agree ...
        E. Damantsev will appear and tell you everything about Zircon with children's snotty
  • knn54 21 January 2020 16: 20 New
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    Ie not yet ready for battle.
    1. bk316 21 January 2020 16: 41 New
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      Ie not yet ready for battle.

      And how can it be ready before being put into service before state tests ....
  • Hog
    Hog 21 January 2020 16: 33 New
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    Rear Admiral apparently lives in his 70s-80s and did not hear about the mortar launch.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Pavel57 21 January 2020 17: 30 New
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      Is it completely insensitive to interference?
  • voyaka uh 21 January 2020 17: 20 New
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    So here you are, what mysterious Zircon ...
    1. opus 21 January 2020 20: 14 New
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      Quote: voyaka uh
      So here you are, what mysterious Zircon ...

      This is a model of an experimental hypersonic missile was shown in 2016 by TsIAM
      (State Scientific Center Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after PI Baranov")
      They had a remote control on liquid.

      and 3M-22 is
      NPO Mashinostroeniya, UPKB Detal, FSUE NIIPM, Design Bureau Orion, Production Association Strela
      Threat. and with such an air intake arrangement it’s difficult to do maneuvers (the angle of attack will simply drown out the airspace)
      1. 3danimal 22 January 2020 12: 41 New
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        A photo of Zircon is still not there. They mainly show images of the American X-51 “Waverider” with the distinction marks deleted in Photoshop.
        1. opus 22 January 2020 12: 43 New
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          Quote: 3danimal
          A photo of Zircon is still not there.

          I know. You are better than Voyakeukh write wink
          Quote: voyaka uh
          So here you are, what mysterious Zircon ...

          I already explained to him why this is not "he"
  • Operator 21 January 2020 17: 25 New
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    Quote: Mavrikiy
    You are deaf

    Thank you for not being blind (according to your data) laughing
  • Pavel57 21 January 2020 17: 28 New
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    The ship is experiencing enormous loads at the launch of such a rocket.

    What immediately 1000g is required?
  • Galleon 21 January 2020 17: 33 New
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    The doctor of science knows what he is talking about. I know that em.pr.956 with a full eight-missile salvo of Mosquitoes lost speed from 18 to 3 knots - this is a 7500 ton machine with two working screws. Here is such a volley energy. And the energy of the volley "Zircon", from a vertical launcher ... to see for yourself this ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. AVA77 21 January 2020 18: 02 New
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      Andriy Shevchik (Orange) There are no hypersonic weapons in Russia and in China either.
    2. voyaka uh 21 January 2020 18: 03 New
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      "It is physically impossible to create a weapon capable of striking at hypersonic speed with an accurate strike" ///
      ---
      A simple cone warhead ICBM? Falls vertically, overheating in dense layers of the atmosphere. But the thick heat-resistant shell and the uniformity of heating (light rotation) allow the warhead not to burn when braking from 20 to 5-7 MAX near the surface of the Earth. Guidance: inertial at altitude - and ... stone down.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. ccsr 21 January 2020 19: 43 New
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          Quote: Andriy Shevchik
          The warhead ICBM flies inertially and has a KVO of 100-500 meters. This is not an exact hit.

          A "great" thought, and especially relevant for charges of 400 kt and above - well, you can’t do without an accurate hit with such a nuclear charge.
          Quote: Andriy Shevchik
          Hypersonic maneuvering devices have 10 km deviations,

          And who reported to you that in the final stretch they won’t hit the target?
    3. bk316 21 January 2020 18: 18 New
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      weapons in рthere is no Russia in Chinaя also.

      Ukrainian?
      Look at your picture doesn’t come to mind? For example, about
      fall to Mach 1-2.


      I am always amused by people who post pictures, graphs, formulas, which they did not bother to understand wassat
      WELL OR AT LEAST THE TRANSFER NAME OF THE DIAGRAM
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Svarog51 21 January 2020 19: 49 New
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          ANDRYUSHA. I started a dispute with a teacher at Moscow State University. To raise your own ego? To do this, you need to have knowledge, and not get into the discussion, without having basic knowledge. Yes, and the people with whom you are trying to debate also need to know. You pacify yourself by the fact that it is impossible and live in peace. Nothing threatens your pigsty. Expensively shoot at him with Zircon. Wrong goal. hi
        2. Xnumx vis 21 January 2020 20: 42 New
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          Quote: Andriy Shevchik
          and swear on patriotic forums where you pour in your ears a leaven bilberd about a superweapon of no analogues

          Shaw, shaw, Ha? Shaw tse take? Shanovna glyadochki, that chi-tochi!
    4. Operator 21 January 2020 18: 20 New
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      Your roofs have completely gone on the outskirts - the illustration shows only the most effective high-altitude echelons of motor flight of aircraft at different Mach numbers.

      The Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation publicly designated the speed and range of the Zircon ZKKR - 9M and 900 km, which corresponds to a flight time of 6 minutes to the target and a marching level of 40 km. Then the rocket (most likely detachable warhead) dives onto the target, practically without reducing speed due to the accumulated potential energy.

      Heat from heating the edges of the airframe during engine operation is removed by heating liquid fuel; during the dive, it is provided with heat resistance of carbon-carbon structural materials (~ 3000 degrees Celsius) coated with intermetallic compounds that transform into ceramic during oxidation in air. The warhead is coated with sublimating material (phenol-formaldehyde resin with asbestos fibers) by analogy with ICBM warheads, the speed of which in dense layers of the atmosphere is from 25 (at the entrance) to 10 M (in a collision with the earth's surface).

      For 6 minutes of flight, the inertial homing system of the missile defense system accumulates an error of 36 meters, which is quite enough to hit a protected head of the ICBM launcher shaft with a nuclear explosion with a capacity of 250 Ktn (charge weight 130 kg). About the effectiveness of the defeat of command centers in Washington, Warsaw, Kiev, etc. not to mention at all.

      Plus, in the USSR in the late 1980s, a technical solution was worked out for organizing a radiotransparent window in a plasma cocoon surrounding a combat unit in the atmosphere at a speed of more than 5 M, with the aim of radar guidance to a target at a terminal section with a 10-meter airborne detection zone, which is quite suitable for a detachable Warhead "Zircon".

      Therefore, by and large - accept my condolences bully
      1. bk316 21 January 2020 18: 37 New
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        Your roofs have completely gone on the outskirts - the illustration shows only the most effective high-altitude echelons of motor flight of aircraft at different Mach numbers.

        Even cooler (more correct): .... in terms of aerodynamic control.
        Well, about the gas rudders in 404 have not heard anything yet, so YES
        Today, the creation of hypersonic weapons IN / IN UKRAINE IS IMPOSSIBLE


        True, this was understandable without illustrations. laughing
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Svarog51 21 January 2020 19: 58 New
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          "There is much in the world, friend of Horatio, which even our wise men did not dream of!" yes
        2. Old Michael 21 January 2020 23: 13 New
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          You do not understand what you write. ...
          Warhead ICBMs have a kinetic speed ...
          they fly from a height of 1000 km due to this huge accumulated speed at the terminal stage ...
          need a huge tick rate

          Brothers!
          But this is not even a troll!
          He tries to breathe in techno-idiotisms, uses mov, Moskal and pidzhn equally illiterate.
          In which organism can this combine?
    5. gurzuf 21 January 2020 18: 27 New
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      Take it easy Krimsky bridge the tag is dumb !!! bully
    6. Kazbek 21 January 2020 19: 38 New
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      Do you have Ukraine? laughing
  • Old26 21 January 2020 18: 14 New
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    Quote: K-50
    And what about the “cold” (mortar) start does not fit? With it, it doesn’t matter what speed the “product” then picks up. Just a gentle regime for starting and ship structures.

    Not suitable. The mass-dimensional parameters of the rocket are increasing. In addition to the starting accelerator, you will also need a PAD (powder pressure accumulator). The design will become more complicated. Given the existing dimensions of launchers, this means that the missile itself will be smaller, and, accordingly, the range will be less ...

    And the statements of this expert do not particularly inspire confidence that he really knows something in reality. In his answers, sometimes more lulling than real analysis

    For example
    This missile is capable of destroying even aircraft carrier formations on the approaches to our shores.

    Any missile can destroy an aircraft carrier if it has a nuclear warhead. And so ...

    She basically can not be shot down. In practice, it has no opposition. So far, none of the potential opponents simply have anti-ballistic weapons capable of intercepting them.

    Sorry, Comrade Admiral, but you are carrying a blizzard. There is no rocket or plane that could not be shot down. It all depends on the outfit of forces. How many anti-aircraft missiles (anti-missiles) will be used by the enemy. A hypersonic missile will fly at altitudes of the order of 40-50 km. approximately at these altitudes, the kinetic interceptor of American missile defense is already beginning to work.
    Parameters Standart SM-3 Block 1A / 1B - range of 700 km, reach in height - 500 km, speed 2,7 km / s or approximately 8,2 M
    The parameters of the Standart SM-3 Block 2A are a range of 2500 km, reach in height - 1500 km, speed 4,5-5 km / s or approximately 13,6-15,2 M
    Even if we assume that instead of the kinetic interceptor the Americans will deliver a fragmentation, heavier warhead and the parameters drop somewhat - they will still be sufficient. So to say that a potential adversary has nothing is frivolous to say the least.

    Regarding the so-called "childhood diseases" ... One of them is the adjustment of the start conditions. The ship is experiencing enormous loads at the launch of such a rocket. And this must be taken into account by the developers of the rocket in relation to the arming of frigates. The second is work on accelerators that bring Zircon to hypersonic speed. These nuances require practical refinement, which is what they are doing now amid testing.

    Honestly, it is unclear what huge loads mean when starting such a rocket? Okay, you can understand that the thrust of the accelerator will be more than that of the Caliber, but it’s not in the tens or hundreds of times ....
    Well, the accelerator itself. Also not entirely clear. A starter is a regular solid fuel engine. Used for half a century. What could be of it? Not quite clear...
    1. bk316 21 January 2020 18: 32 New
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      Even if we assume that instead of the kinetic interceptor the Americans will deliver a fragmentation, heavier warhead and the parameters drop somewhat - they will still be sufficient.

      Why trifle, immediately nuclear. Then they’ll get knocked down. laughing
      1. ccsr 21 January 2020 19: 51 New
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        Quote: bk316
        Why trifle, immediately nuclear. Then they’ll get knocked down.

        By the way, a regular nuclear charge was just intended for missiles in the Moscow Air Defense District in the sixties, which were planned to undermine at altitudes of more than 10 km against American warheads. But subsequently it was abandoned, but it may return to this.
    2. bk316 21 January 2020 18: 40 New
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      the kinetic interceptor of American missile defense is already beginning to work at these heights

      Well, you are in the subject, tell me at least once at least some kinetic interceptor at these altitudes shot down something flying not in ballistics?
      1. Operator 21 January 2020 20: 33 New
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        Stary26 is not aware that infrared sensors of the kinetic interceptor homing system begin to work only from an altitude of 130 km or more due to thermal heating at lower altitudes.
    3. voyaka uh 21 January 2020 18: 56 New
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      But can not it be that Zircon is an ordinary tactical ballistic missile of a sea launch?
      Range - about 1000 km, height - about 40 km, speed - 9 MAX.
      All this very much resembles the performance characteristics of Iskander ...
      1. Avior 21 January 2020 19: 29 New
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        Quasiballistic then rather if 40 km
        1. voyaka uh 21 January 2020 20: 40 New
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          This leads to a complete lack of photos. Even from long distances, not detailed.
          After all, the ballistic is quite sharply different in form from the winged one.
          And it would become clear what Zircon is.
          1. Voyager 22 January 2020 15: 43 New
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            Another trick like with the Dagger? It is unlikely that in such a case would be kept such secrecy.
            1. voyaka uh 22 January 2020 15: 53 New
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              So, these talk about 40 km ...
              Cruise missiles do not fly at this altitude. This is quasi-ballistics.
              A sort of "Iskanderchik" with a detachable warhead, which can plan a little.
              We call this the "tactical Vanguard." fellow
      2. rich 22 January 2020 00: 28 New
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        voyaka uh (Alexey) : But it cannot turn out that Zircon is an ordinary tactical ballistic missile of a sea launch?

        "Ut sit aliquid .... etiam quod nos non ponere" Lucius Cornelius sulla (c)
        "It may turn out to be anything .... even that which we do not expect"
        Cornelius Lucius Sulla
    4. Aqr009 21 January 2020 18: 56 New
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      Honestly, it is unclear what huge loads mean when starting such a rocket? Okay, you can understand that the thrust of the accelerator will be more than that of the Caliber, but it’s not in the tens or hundreds of times ....

      Perhaps in the tens (maybe a hundred). If the Caliber just needs to be pushed out, and then he himself somehow, then Zircon needs to be pushed thoroughly. This is more like launching a space rocket from the Sea Launch, and there you know the launch pad, which, wow, don’t cry!
      And if it's a volley of zircons belay
    5. ccsr 22 January 2020 13: 21 New
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      Quote: Old26
      A hypersonic missile will fly at altitudes of the order of 40-50 km. approximately at these altitudes, the kinetic interceptor of American missile defense is already beginning to work.

      The worst thing is that at this altitude an ionization trace will form, which can be tracked both by ground-based stations of horizontal horizon radar (or by stations of vertical or reciprocal-inclined sounding), and possibly systems that will be placed on an orbital constellation. And it turns out that at the very least, but the flight path will be calculated, which means that it is possible to destroy the warhead in some area by undermining the charge with a large number of damaging elements. How it will all be real is difficult to predict, but the unmasking sign of flying at such an altitude is obvious, which means it is possible to create anti-missiles.
    6. Kettle 22 January 2020 19: 45 New
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      Quote: Old26

      Parameters Standart SM-3 Block 1A / 1B - range of 700 km, reach in height - 500 km, speed 2,7 km / s or approximately 8,2 M
      The parameters of the Standart SM-3 Block 2A are a range of 2500 km, reach in height - 1500 km, speed 4,5-5 km / s or approximately 13,6-15,2 M

      Rather, to counter Zircon in the final section of his marching trajectory, they will try to use anti-aircraft modifications of the Standards with OF warheads — something like advanced versions of SM-6. The very high altitude, range and energy of the SM-3, its kinetic warhead are unlikely to be needed.
      If a conventional warhead may not destroy a ballistic missile warhead, even if single fragments hit the aerodynamically complex Zircon, its destruction at hypersonic speeds will be very likely.
      It is strange, of course, that the expert calls the start of Zircon a problem. I thought the main problem from the history of the development and testing of aircraft samples with a hypersonic ramjet engine (SCJP) in the last 10 years is the marching mode, the scramjet proper operation in horizontal flight, and especially when maneuvering, even the simplest one.

      Perhaps the Zircon flight will be something like this:
      Vertical start, cold / hot - to taste, using a solid fuel accelerator.
      It seems that the dimensions of the Zircon assembly with the accelerator should be approximately equal to the size of Onyx, for use from the same cells UVP 3C14, and it is unlikely that Zircon is heavier than it. Still, Zircon should have a rather big “lip” for the air intake, which protrudes over the contours of the fuselage, like all devices with a scramjet. The Zircon solid-propellant accelerator is likely to be significantly larger than Onyx.
      The accelerator accelerates Zircon into the stratosphere along a smoothly inclined path to a speed of about 5M and a height - well, say, 15-20 km.
      Then the accelerator and the fairing of the “lips” of the scramjet air intake are reset. The scramjet starts up and accelerates the Zircon to the declared 8M (2,4 km / s), with simultaneous climb up to 30-40 km. The change in speed of the scramjet, as far as is known, is necessarily associated with a change in height, and vice versa.
      Marching section of the flight - what will it be - 300 ... 500 ... 700 km? - Zircon conducts in horizontal flight (unlike the Dagger, for example) at a constant speed, in a plasma frame. GOS does not work, it is not needed - in 2-5 minutes of flight in this section the target will not run far.
      At the end of the marching section, kilometers 50-100 kilometers from the target, the engine stops working. When reduced, he would have to automatically “damp” the speed of the rocket.
      Zircon decreases, its speed and so decreases with increasing air density, and at, say, 10-15 km altitude becomes supersonic.
      The GOS is turned on and searches and identifies targets. Zircon plans / dives into the ship. Its speed at the time of impact will probably be 2-4M.

      Perhaps this terminal section will be the most vulnerable when the speed and height of the Zircon will allow it to use medium-range (and maybe short) missiles.
      1. Operator 22 January 2020 20: 45 New
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        The Standart SM-3 missile is equipped exclusively with atmospheric homing interceptors, and the Zircon flies exclusively in the atmosphere; while Standart SM-3 develops hypersonic speed and moves in the atmosphere in a plasma cocoon - i.e. blindly.

        To intercept atmospheric targets, the Standart SM-3 must be equipped with fragmentation warheads and switched to radio command guidance - by injecting freon into the end of the anti-missile (to form a radio-transparent window in the plasma), installing an anti-missile radio receiver (with antennas on each of the three stages) and reconfiguring ship radar for operation in the radio command guidance mode.

        Those. a certain Standart SM-4 looms in explicit form, which so far is not even in the plans of the Pentagon.

        But it will be empty troubles - when the ship attacks according to the “first-second” scheme, the explosion of the leading Zircon’s electromagnetic warhead (before entering the ship’s air defense zone) will destroy the ship’s radar, and the guided Zircon will destroy the ship.

        PS Zircon homing at the terminal site in a dive can be carried out both with the help of a radar seeker (when speed is reduced to supersonic), and with the help of a gravimetric seeker at the center of mass of the ship (at hypersonic speed).
    7. 3danimal 24 January 2020 04: 40 New
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      With a special warhead, an anti-nuclear warrant is doing just fine.
  • gurzuf 21 January 2020 18: 24 New
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    Quote: Operator
    And what prevents you from launching the rocket after launch not by 90 degrees, but by 10-20 degrees,

    probably this is - a "childhood illness."
  • rocket757 21 January 2020 18: 40 New
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    The product is new, a child’s disease is unpleasant, but it can be objective.
  • VladVlad 21 January 2020 18: 47 New
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    Dear Admiral Evmenov. Zircon is good. For aircraft carriers, he is probably very scary. And how are we going to destroy more breakthrough enemy technology? Why does Shoigu lose sight of the terrible and indestructible threat to our armed forces? The USA has the aerospace TR-3B (and its modifications and drones, there are already a lot of them) invisible to all radars, has super technologies: controls the force of gravity (moving vertically (and without atmosphere)), controls the force of inertia (the pilot does not feel acceleration) , Controls the flow around (no aerodynamic drag). Acceleration at start from 5 km per second in square meters, in the atmosphere, after 5 seconds the speed is about 15 km per second. The speed in dense layers of the atmosphere is up to 10 km per second. The speed in space is more than 100 km per second. It can carry several thermonuclear charges at such speeds. Fly with impunity over all countries since about 2003, radars do not see them !!!!!
    These are the stolen US technology of the 80s. The United States has implemented these technologies, but in Russia they do not want to introduce them. Why?
    1. AVA77 21 January 2020 19: 40 New
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      VladVlad (Vladimir) The United States introduced these technologies, but they do not want to introduce them in Russia. Why?

      Everything is just Vladimir. It has long been known that Russia does not introduce these technologies, because we are not ordered by the third-order Anunnaki, who oversee Russia in the security council of the united worlds of the Galaxy. laughing
  • Shahno 21 January 2020 18: 50 New
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    Quote: VladVlad
    Dear Admiral Evmenov. Zircon is good. For aircraft carriers, he is probably very scary. And how are we going to destroy more breakthrough enemy technology? Why does Shoigu lose sight of the terrible and indestructible threat to our armed forces? The USA has the aerospace TR-3B (and its modifications and drones, there are already a lot of them) invisible to all radars, has super technologies: controls the force of gravity (moving vertically (and without atmosphere)), controls the force of inertia (the pilot does not feel acceleration) , Controls the flow around (no aerodynamic drag). Acceleration at start from 5 km per second in square meters, in the atmosphere, after 5 seconds the speed is about 15 km per second. The speed in dense layers of the atmosphere is up to 10 km per second. The speed in space is more than 100 km per second. It can carry several thermonuclear charges at such speeds. Fly with impunity over all countries since about 2003, radars do not see them !!!!!
    These are the stolen US technology of the 80s. The United States has implemented these technologies, but in Russia they do not want to introduce them. Why?

    laughing
    Molodets. It's not bad too. Do not want to be effective managers. PR in your order ...
  • Shahno 21 January 2020 19: 02 New
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    Quote: voyaka uh
    But can not it be that Zircon is an ordinary tactical ballistic missile of a sea launch?
    Range - about 1000 km, height - about 40 km, speed - 9 MAX.
    All this very much resembles the performance characteristics of Iskander ...

    I do not know. I personally think this is politics. Well, if suddenly what happens, believe me, we will hear about 10 new Nobel laureates ..From Russia. It’s like I play chess with many of the Weizmann Institute ...
  • Shahno 21 January 2020 19: 20 New
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    Quote: Shahno
    Quote: voyaka uh
    But can not it be that Zircon is an ordinary tactical ballistic missile of a sea launch?
    Range - about 1000 km, height - about 40 km, speed - 9 MAX.
    All this very much resembles the performance characteristics of Iskander ...

    I do not know. I personally think this is politics. Well, if suddenly what happens, believe me, we will hear about 10 new Nobel laureates ..From Russia. It’s like I play chess with many of the Weizmann Institute ...

    Forgive us in advance ... There are no breakthroughs in stagnant Western science either in plasma control or in materials ..
  • nm76 21 January 2020 19: 20 New
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    The launch of the Zircon rocket is carried out on new physical principles.
    Overloads at the moment of exit from the launcher constitute dohreniliard of quantions.
    Further along the branch of the anisotropic parabola, Zircon rushes to the moon.
    Having made three full orbits in the satellite’s orbit, the rocket accumulates kinetic energy sufficient for a quantum leap.
    Having seized the target with a dead grip, Zircon rushes to the Earth.
    At the speed of light, Zircon strikes a selected object.
    The accuracy of a missile at a distance of 130 million light-years is like a squirrel in the eye.
    All this time, the ship that made the launch experiences critical overloads equal to 9 Avogadro numbers per 3 moles square.
    Report finished))))
  • shinobi 21 January 2020 19: 27 New
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    Tovarisch is off topic or deliberately pushing disu. Summer 20, at least, and new missiles surely, are stratified according to the "minute" scheme. The accelerator starts to work at a height of at least 15 meters above the carrier ship. Externally, the Zircon family missiles will look like “Yakhont” starts in the same way. A layman may not even understand what kind of pattern is in front of him. There is a suspicion that we Zircons already saw but did not understand what it is. Pay attention to how the rhetoric of the Pentagon has changed dramatically regarding the subject “Zircon”.
  • Old26 21 January 2020 19: 35 New
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    Quote: Galleon
    The doctor of science knows what he is talking about. I know that em.pr.956 with a full eight-missile salvo of Mosquitoes lost speed from 18 to 3 knots - this is a 7500 ton machine with two working screws. Here is such a volley energy. And the energy of the volley "Zircon", from a vertical launcher ... to see for yourself this ...

    Andrew! The launch system on the 956 project was almost in the horizontal direction, i.e. there were two multidirectional vectors. It is clear that the volley "forward" dropped the speed of the ship

    Quote: Avior
    You are wrong. No hot start
    A hot start means turning on the rocket engine directly to the UVP
    Cold start - when a rocket is thrown to a height in one way or another and only then does the rocket engine start.

    But "Caliber" just starts

    Quote: Andriy Shevchik
    Zircon is not a hypersonic weapon; scramjet engines can reach a hypersonic speed of 5 max only at altitudes above ~ 18 m (almost 000 feet). For this Zircon there is a detachable accelerating step for output to such a height. At low altitudes, the speeds of Zircon and any other rocket fall to 60-000 mach.

    And who said that the marching altitude of the Zircon will be at altitudes below 18 km? There was a figure that the flight altitude would be about 30-40 km. And it is there that he will accelerate to hypersonic speeds

    Quote: Andriy Shevchik
    The warhead ICBM flies inertially and has a KVO of 100-500 meters. This is not an exact hit. Hypersonic maneuvering devices have 10 km deviations, for example, the TMA UNION, which flies in the plasma and maneuvers with rudders until the parachute is withdrawn, has 10-30 km deviations in half an hour.

    Has Soyuz already become a hypersonic maneuvering device and has steering wheels for maneuver? Do not tell me where they are hiding on the descent vehicle and how it maneuvers? Do you have engines, planes? It seems, my friend, you have reported

    Quote: bk316
    Why trifle, immediately nuclear. Then they’ll get knocked down.

    It is possible and nuclear. And accuracy will not be needed high.

    Quote: bk316
    Well, you are in the subject, tell me at least once at least some kinetic interceptor at these altitudes shot down something flying not in ballistics?

    Namesake! Well, a hypersonic cruise missile does not yet exist. And so. In principle, there is not much difference in the interception of a ballistic or cruise missile. This is not a manned vehicle. who can make maneuvers upon discovering that he is being irradiated and fired a rocket. Both a warhead and a cruise missile are not a maneuvering target with respect to an anti-aircraft missile (anti-missile).

    Quote: Aqr009
    Perhaps in the tens (maybe a hundred). If the Caliber just needs to be pushed out, and then he himself somehow, then Zircon needs to be pushed thoroughly. This is more like launching a space rocket from the Sea Launch, and there you know the launch pad, which, wow, don’t cry!

    Why: the task of the starter at the initial stage is to push the rocket out of the launcher. It is unlikely that the mass of Zircon will be much larger than the masses of Caliber or Onyx. If, for example, the mass of these missiles is 2,5 tons, then the starting thrust 1,5 times the mass of the rocket is enough to throw it out of the launch. And further - further there will be no load on the ship and the thrust can increase tens or hundreds of times.

    Quote: VladVlad
    Dear Admiral Evmenov. Zircon is good. For aircraft carriers, he is probably very scary. And how are we going to destroy more breakthrough enemy technology? Why does Shoigu lose sight of the terrible and indestructible threat to our armed forces? The USA has the aerospace TR-3B (and its modifications and drones, there are already a lot of them) invisible to all radars, has super technologies: controls the force of gravity (moving vertically (and without atmosphere)), controls the force of inertia (the pilot does not feel acceleration) , Controls the flow around (no aerodynamic drag). Acceleration at start from 5 km per second in square meters, in the atmosphere, after 5 seconds the speed is about 15 km per second. The speed in dense layers of the atmosphere is up to 10 km per second. The speed in space is more than 100 km per second. It can carry several thermonuclear charges at such speeds. Fly with impunity over all countries since about 2003, radars do not see them !!!!!
    These are the stolen US technology of the 80s. The United States has implemented these technologies, but in Russia they do not want to introduce them. Why?

    Yes, stop talking about conspiracy theories. I already answered you on the exact same post. And according to the temperature of your "scout", incl. and technology. It cannot be at the same time that there are problems in hypersonic motor flight and speeds of 10 km / s are mastered right there. The Americans have problems with the nuclear complex (weapons). Americans do not have technologies for producing materials capable of holding temperatures of thousands of degrees in the atmosphere. As there are no such energy-intensive fuels, such chemistry and everything else.
    It's like taking a tribe that was developed in the Stone Age and declaring that they can make machine guns and piston planes, but everything else, starting from a pencil and coffee grinder and downloading with cars and computers, cannot. I understand that you are a supporter of these conspiracy theories and authors such as Mukhin, but do not bear this nonsense in
    1. Astronaut 21 January 2020 19: 48 New
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      Yes, there is really enough nonsense here. But the doctor of sciences, who is also not in the subject of Dudko wink
    2. Avior 21 January 2020 20: 29 New
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      Pay attention to the very first launch, the moment the sustainer engine starts after the rocket leaves the cell is clearly visible

      Yes, and at starts after 0.20 you can also clearly see the moment of starting the main engine
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Old26 21 January 2020 19: 52 New
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    Quote: shinobi
    Tovarisch is off topic or deliberately pushing disu. Summer 20, at least, and new missiles surely, are stratified according to the "minute" scheme. The accelerator starts to work at a height of at least 15 meters above the carrier ship. Externally, the Zircon family missiles will look like "Yakhont", run the same way. A layman may not even understand what kind of pattern in front of him.

    On the dofig network of videos of the launch of the "Caliber" from the ship's launcher. The video shows in succession how the VPU cover is tilted, then a stream of smoke and flame beats from the VPU and finally a rocket flies out. Not even all ballistic missiles start with a mortar launch. The same UR-100N UTTX has a gas-dynamic start. But solid-propellant rockets start from TPK using a mortar launch.
    Externally, the Zircon is unlikely to be similar to the Onyx. The aerodynamics of supersonic and hypersonic missiles are different. Rather, the aerodynamics of the Zircon will resemble the American X-51, which is usually set to illustrate the Zircon

    Quote: shinobi
    There is a suspicion that we already saw the Zircons but did not understand what it is. Pay attention to how the rhetoric of the Pentagon has changed dramatically regarding the subject of "Zircon".

    Where?
    1. 3danimal 22 January 2020 12: 58 New
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      It’s interesting that they always put the X-51 for illustration (erasing the American insignia in Photoshop).
      But in size, the Waverider does not fit in the UKKS cell. This is despite the fact that it has an air start and does not have warheads.
      PR, he is such a PR ...
    2. Charik 23 January 2020 08: 58 New
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      So after all - Anke Chapman (did not yell) but presented, this technology
  • bars1 21 January 2020 20: 11 New
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    Dudko is clearly not in the subject of how the work on Zircon is going. People in the subject of comments, in more detail those that gave Eumenov and TTX, which voiced by Putin will not give. You know the secret.
  • bars1 21 January 2020 20: 19 New
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    Respected voyaka oh, Could you tell me where the photo of the aircraft you call Zircon comes from! Thanks in advance.
  • Operator 21 January 2020 20: 30 New
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    Quote: ccsr
    maybe back to this

    It can’t - since with the help of nuclear warheads it is possible to intercept only one attacking ammunition, all of the following will go to the targets completely freely, since the radars will be disabled by a magnetic pulse.
  • Old26 21 January 2020 20: 43 New
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    Quote: Avior
    Pay attention to the very first launch, the moment the sustainer engine starts after the rocket leaves the cell is clearly visible

    By the way, here the moment of starting the marching engine is not visible on these plots.
    The flight schedule of the Caliber missiles is as follows
    Flight diagram of anti-ship missile 3M54.
    1. After launch, the rocket rises to a height of 150 meters. Speed ​​- 0,6M (734 km / h).
    2. At this altitude and this speed, the launch accelerator is separated and the main engine is turned on, which accelerates the rocket to a speed of 0,8 M (980 km / h).
    3. After that, the rocket is reduced to a height of 10-15 meters.
    4. At a distance of about 40 km from the finish line, the rocket rises to a height of 400 meters and ARGS-54 is activated. Search azimuth is ± 45 °. Search angle +10 ° / -20 °. The homing head ARGS-54 is capable of detecting a cruiser type ship at a range of 65 km. AGDS is disconnected. RCC is using a passive radar, which responds to the operation of radars and jamming stations.
    5. If the target is lost AGDS is activated again. Approximately at a distance of 20 km there is a separation of the combat stage, which reaches a speed of up to 2,9M. Ultrasonic flight altitude from 3 to 5 meters
    1. bars1 21 January 2020 21: 26 New
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      But is it not the other way around: first, the passive RLGSN is turned on - for rough aiming, and then the ARGSN - for accurate guidance?
      For example, in promising PRR, American in addition to the passive channel, ARGSN is used for accurate aiming at the target. In a prospective modification of the Russian X-58, add. thermal imaging channel. In the American anti-ship missile system LRASM, the passive RGSN is used for coarse pickup, then the IR GOS comes into play. In general, the passive RGSN does not have the required accuracy.
    2. Avior 22 January 2020 00: 29 New
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      Sorry, but turning on after being pushed out of the cell with a short flash of flame and smoke is clearly visible on the video at a height of several meters, after which the rocket actively picks up speed, maybe This is not a marching engine, but an accelerator that displays the rocket, as it shows a characteristic smoke gathering, which the main engine doesn’t have, or another reason for the smoke trail, but it is not visible in the view after moving to horizontal flight for something to fly off.

      There is a video where missiles are tracked on the active flight site

      In any case, even visually the difference between the start and Tomahawk is very different at the time of leaving the cell, here the starting accelerator starts, it launches a rocket from the cell and it lifts by 400 m.
      In Caliber, the inclusion of this accelerator at a height of several meters
    3. 3danimal 22 January 2020 13: 01 New
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      It is reasonable to assume that immediately during this “jump” with the radar exposure of the ship, Aegis send several SM-6 / ESSMs to the RCC.
  • Operator 21 January 2020 20: 44 New
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    Quote: Old26
    Americans have no technology to produce materials that can hold temperatures of thousands of degrees in the atmosphere

    Already there - the Americans have recently patented a carbon-carbon material with an intermetallic coating (which protects carbon from combustion), which is converted to ceramic when heated in air and intended for use as part of gliders of hypersonic aircraft and uncooled nozzles of rocket engines.

    Apparently, we have communized bully
  • nm76 21 January 2020 20: 46 New
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    The method for launching a rocket from the launcher without any load on the ship is as follows: - the carrier ship accelerates to 1.800 naval nodes, and then brakes sharply ... The Zircon rocket leaves the guide tube by inertia and flies at an initial speed of 3.000 km / h.
    This is called a marine induction launch, and then, after 30 minutes of free flight, the marching engines are turned on and the Zircon reaches the horizontal speed of light)))
    1. nm76 21 January 2020 21: 39 New
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      Oh, oh gentlemen, take it easy!
      Less then what?
      Do you really prefer the conclusion of Zircon using a catapult, to reduce the load on the ship?
      But then the displacement of the ship increases, in order to increase the deck, so that the gum of the catapult could be pulled back. Yes, and then the crew is needed more to stretch the catapult, etc.
      So my version of sea drift is the most promising)))
  • Old26 21 January 2020 20: 48 New
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    Quote: Astronaut
    Yes, there is really enough nonsense here. But the doctor of sciences, who is also not in the subject of Dudko

    I do not find anything unusual in this. First, he is a submariner by profession. Vo-1 left the army in 2, that is, a quarter of a century ago. He has no access to serious sources of information. He knows what others know, plus there may be unofficial information from acquaintances and colleagues, plus experience to analyze ... Therefore, such a vague analysis
    1. asv363 22 January 2020 05: 37 New
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      Yes, he is a submariner. A couple of stories from his practice, which are quite patriotic, from the times of the USSR (the source, however, is so-so - not everyone will read): http://nvo.ng.ru/history/2016-09-09/1_coldwar.html
  • Operator 21 January 2020 20: 58 New
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    Quote: Andriy Shevchik
    At a distance of 900km deviations will be in the region of 1000m, and these are the indicators of American cruise missiles on inertial systems

    For American warheads of ICBMs and SLBMs, a KVO of 100 yards (91 meters) was declared, taking into account astro correction of the breeding stage.

    Plus, serial solid-state gyroscopes used in stabilization systems for cars and motorcycles of the highest price category have error accumulation at the level of 1/10 meter for every second of flight. From here the KVO of 36 meters at 6 minutes of flight time turns out.
  • Old26 21 January 2020 21: 03 New
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    Quote: nm76
    The method for launching a rocket from the launcher without any load on the ship is as follows: - the carrier ship accelerates to 1.800 naval nodes, and then brakes sharply ... The Zircon rocket leaves the guide tube by inertia and flies at an initial speed of 3.000 km / h.
    This is called a marine induction launch, and then, after 30 minutes of free flight, the marching engines are turned on and the Zircon reaches the horizontal speed of light)))

    Accelerates to 1800 marine nodes? Maybe better then land nodes? There will be more laughing
    At your sea ​​knots frankly they hurt the eye
    1. nm76 21 January 2020 21: 33 New
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      Eh, you don’t understand anything in hydrodynamics ...
      On the sea, let’s say a corvette-class carrier ship accelerates to 1.800 miles and brakes sharply - this will create an acceleration of 3.000 km / h for the rocket, and accordingly no loads will be put on the ship from such a launch, except for the anchor chain.
    2. Avior 22 January 2020 00: 19 New
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      Then it’s more logical than air nodes - with such speed with land and sea nodes there will be problems :))
  • Old26 21 January 2020 22: 40 New
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    Quote: bars1
    But is it not the other way around: first, the passive RLGSN is turned on - for rough aiming, and then the ARGSN - for accurate guidance?
    For example, in promising PRR, American in addition to the passive channel, ARGSN is used for accurate aiming at the target. In a prospective modification of the Russian X-58, add. thermal imaging channel. In the American anti-ship missile system LRASM, the passive RGSN is used for coarse pickup, then the IR GOS comes into play. In general, the passive RGSN does not have the required accuracy.

    What's the point? What is the range of the passive radar homing system? From a lift height of 400 meters, the radio horizon of the rocket is 80 km. Ascent to this height occurs from a distance of 40 km. An active radar hijacker captures the target even if it is somewhat aloof. But when the rocket is already on a combat course, then the auxiliary channel - the passive radar homing system - is it.
    If RCC with a supersonic stage, then at a distance of 20 km this stage is activated. - and this is 20 seconds of flight. If without a supersonic stage - 1,3 minutes. The ship will not go anywhere, because already captured by GOS
  • rica1952 22 January 2020 09: 58 New
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    The doctor of military sciences apparently doesn’t understand rocketry. The start can be cold. And as for children's illnesses, this is when the product is ready. And until the scramjet engine has been steadily working for dozens of minutes, there’s just nothing to say. And all this noise around Zircon is clean water bluff.
  • gridasov 22 January 2020 11: 13 New
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    There are absolutely obvious and irrefutable examples of what they don’t say anywhere, but everyone understands that this is a reality. This is a flight, or rather acceleration and braking of a UFO. And I believe that this is exactly the model to which we must strive. Therefore, they made a hyper-speed rocket and well done. But she does not fly as it would correspond to new technologies. So there is no development. We need fundamentally new methods and methods for more efficient movement in space. And they cannot appear suddenly and immediately. Therefore, here the key element of breakthrough ideas in this area is precisely the understanding of the existence of long-term prospects for the development of those ideas that are being laid down now. And we are talking about it! Modern achievements do not have any potential basis for creating the foundation for the future.
  • Old26 22 January 2020 12: 55 New
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    Quote: bayard
    But. The Zircon launch accelerator has MUCH great thrust, and therefore the pressure and temperature are much higher. A UKKS must withstand.
    Therefore, now they are apparently conjuring a decrease in thrust at the rocket’s exit from the launcher, so that they don’t have to make a special launcher for the Zircon, but dispense with the standard launcher already on the ships.

    Well, technically, this is solved quite simply. A dual-mode starting accelerator is required. The first mode is about one and a half thrust from the mass to withdraw the product from the launcher, and after a few seconds, when the rocket is already outside the launcher, the second mode starts - and there is at least a hundredfold thrust from the mass of the product
  • Shahno 22 January 2020 19: 43 New
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    Quote: Shahno
    Quote: Shahno
    Quote: voyaka uh
    But can not it be that Zircon is an ordinary tactical ballistic missile of a sea launch?
    Range - about 1000 km, height - about 40 km, speed - 9 MAX.
    All this very much resembles the performance characteristics of Iskander ...

    I do not know. I personally think this is politics. Well, if suddenly what happens, believe me, we will hear about 10 new Nobel laureates ..From Russia. It’s like I play chess with many of the Weizmann Institute ...

    Forgive us in advance ... There are no breakthroughs in stagnant Western science either in plasma control or in materials ..

    In fact, you are annoying, those who put the minus without argument. Argue with me, Rimbaud ..
    Ps. Or we don’t argue here, okay ..
  • Old26 22 January 2020 20: 33 New
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    Quote: arkadiyssk
    And with a cold start, missiles from universal installations will start - for example, American SM anti-aircraft missiles. They cut engines directly into MK41.

    Cold start, comrade, this is a start with a powder pressure accumulator. Hot - on its engines. And in your proposal one contradicts the other

    Quote: Kettle
    Rather, to counter Zircon in the final section of his marching trajectory, they will try to use anti-aircraft modifications of the Standards with OF warheads — something like advanced versions of SM-6. The very high altitude, range and energy of the SM-3, its kinetic warhead are unlikely to be needed.

    The anti-aircraft version in the form of SM-6 is hardly suitable. She has a lesion height of 33 km. If the Cyclone will have a marching height of 40 km, it will be out of reach.
    Kinetic BG on SM-3 ... There have not yet been cases of interception of aerodynamic targets, although the performance characteristics of American missile defense systems indicate that the minimum height of the kinetic interceptor is about 40-50 km. But it’s still better to have on the same SM-3 not a kinetic interceptor, but a fragmentation warhead. There will be no particular problems with this modernization. It may drop a little speed, range and reach, but for the SM-3 (at least BLOCK 1A / 1B, at least BLOCK 2A) this is not critical

    Quote: Kettle
    If a conventional warhead may not destroy a ballistic missile warhead, even if single fragments hit the aerodynamically complex Zircon, its destruction at hypersonic speeds will be very likely.

    Likely

    Quote: Kettle
    It is strange, of course, that the expert calls the start of Zircon a problem. I thought the main problem from the history of the development and testing of aircraft samples with a hypersonic ramjet engine (SCJP) in the last 10 years is the marching mode, the scramjet proper operation in horizontal flight, and especially when maneuvering, even the simplest one.

    For all open publications, it was clear. Flight problems, but not launch problems