Military Review

Bertsa in the English Channel, or Who will stop us?

254

The discussion of one material prompted the Polish military to think a little about this topic. Well, or not slightly. To say that the Polish army is the coolest in Europe is, you know, strong. But it smacks of bison.


By the way, a nuance. Zubrovka vodka is not from the bison, if that. And from the grass Hieróchloe odoráta, or odoriferous odoriferous (aromatic). Tell me - what's the difference? And such. There is a difference between the bison and the bison. But first things first.

Thinking about which army is better (it is clear that in the US-Russia-China trio it is necessary to search), I realized that it is necessary to come up with a certain criterion for the assessment. And came up with.

The assessment criterion will be the Russian army. As an option, why not? Since we are still a pan-European scarecrow, barbarians and a threat comes from us, danger, and in general the end of the world from Russia will come, then what is there? Tolerate once in theory ...

So what do we have? We have an army of Russia, which suddenly, in a non-nuclear war, begins to move to the English Channel.

Why non-nuclear? It is clear that in the case of the nuclear one no one moves anywhere at all, everyone quietly cools down in the field.

Well, suddenly it happened, the warships of Switzerland attacked the corvette of Belarus, and Russia, suddenly flying off the coils, went to restore order in Europe. Non-nuclear way.

That is, strategically and tactically everything happens approximately as in the Great Patriotic War, only the priorities can not be set, whom we are liberating, and who we are just taking. Then we will understand, according to the results.

That is, all modern weapons are used, with the exception of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons. That is, we are going to cleanse Europe of tolerance and other busts of the democratic world. The usual methods. Tanks, Infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, self-propelled guns, aircraft, helicopters, in general, everything. Yes, we can do without fleet, simply because all participants have nothing to brag about.

And who can contrast us?

The US Army, which really can, is not taken. It is necessary to speak about it especially, the Yankees are quite serious guys, and now we are laughing at the Europeans.

We immediately leave Ukraine aside, so much has been said about the neighbors, I just do not want to take the time away from the readers. The Armed Forces of Ukraine today are at war at the level of the First World War, without aviation, so for those who can, I do not hold them. Partisan action only.

Further we have the Baltic states.

Well, yes, it's funny.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. BTR, BMP, a bit of artillery, mortars ... Ukraine-2. Also without aviation, a pair of leased L-39s doesn’t count. It’s completely frivolous, you can not even bother the army, enough of the Russian Guard.

Hungary. 22 thousand people, 30 tanks, armored personnel carriers, artillery, mortars. All that remains of the army of Hungary. All Soviet-made weapons are very new.

Romania. 77 thousand people. 200 tanks of own production based on the T-55 and 260 T-55. Artillery. Fifty helicopters (French, produced under license). Three dozen MiG-21s and 12 F-16s purchased at a sale in Portugal.

Czech Republic. 22 thousand people. 30 T-72 tanks, two hundred armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles. Artillery and anti-tank weapons - Soviet. True, there is aviation. 20 attack aircraft L-159A and 12 fighter Saab JAS 39C. Helicopters also remained from Soviet times.

Slovakia. 7 thousand people. 30 T-72 tanks. 250 Soviet-made IFVs. Anti-tank and air defense systems from the same times. Aviation is represented by 12 MiG-29s and old Soviet Mi-24s.

Poland. 120 thousand people. Tanks: 105 Leopard 2A5, 142 Leopard 2A4. 233 pieces of RT-91, 500 T-72M. Almost a thousand tanks. 1200 infantry fighting vehicles, 700 armored personnel carriers. Aviation: 36 F-16, 26 MiG-29. Soviet helicopters, Soviet air defense. S-125, "Circle". But there is.

Austria. 14 thousand people. 56 tanks "Leopard 2A4", 112 BMP "Ulan", 78 armored personnel carriers. There are 155 mm howitzers (30 units) and 120 mm mortars (70 units).

Germany. 60 thousand people. Tanks "Leopard 2" - 530 pcs. BMP "Marder" - 382 pcs. "Puma" - about 550. Armored personnel carrier "Fuchs" - about 2000 pcs. A decent amount of ATGM and air defense. With aviation, too, everything is better than with the Poles. Eurofighter Typhoon - 130 pcs, Panavia Tornado - 78, Eurocopter H145M helicopters (15 pcs).

Belgium. 32 thousand people. Belgian ground forces abandoned tanks altogether, the role of armored vehicles is played by the Piranha and Dingo armored vehicles with a total of more than 400 pieces. Aviation is represented by 60 F-16 units and 22 Agusta A109 helicopters. 34 units of F-35 were ordered.

Netherlands. 47 thousand people. They also abandoned caterpillar equipment, so the main force of the BTR “Boxer” ground forces (200+ units) and CV9035NL infantry fighting vehicles (150 units). Aviation is represented by F-16 assembly plants of Fokker (61 units), Apache helicopters (28 units) and NH90 NFH / TTH (18 units).

France. 225 thousand people. Leclerc tanks - 400 pcs., AMX-10 RC armored personnel carriers - 247 pcs., VBCI armored personnel carriers - 620 pcs., VAB armored personnel carriers - 2600 pcs. Everything is fine with self-propelled guns and artillery. Army aviation has more than 150 attack helicopters. The Air Force has 134 Mirages of all modifications and 100 Rafales.

Italy. 105 thousand people. 200 Ariete tanks, 120 Leopard 2 tanks, 300 Centaur tank destroyers, 264 infantry fighting vehicles and almost 2000 armored personnel carriers. 200 self-propelled guns. 60 attack helicopters "Mongoose". Aviation has 90 Eurofighter Typhoon, 70 AMX ACOL attack aircraft, 84 Panavia Tornado.

Switzerland. 100 thousand people. 134 tanks Pz-87, 180 BMP CV9030, 133 self-propelled guns M109. The Air Force includes 25 F / A-18C Hornet fighters, 41 F-5I Tiger II fighters and 25 Super Puma and Cougar helicopters.

Greece, Great Britain, Bulgaria and Spain should not be considered because of some distance from the theater of operations, and Albania, Montenegro, Macedonia, Luxembourg because of the size of their armies. For the former, a stereotube is needed to consider, for the latter, a microscope.

So, here is the situation: on one side of the scales, this is all, and on the other, the Russian army is almost a million (it’s clear that not all can be used right away), but there is some reserve in the form of the same National Guard, which can easily be plowed.

Well, almost 3500 tanks, more than 4000 infantry fighting vehicles, more than 4000 armored personnel carriers, almost 1000 MLRS, almost 2000 barrels of self-propelled and towed artillery, and then on the list. It’s worse with airplanes, but you can scrape together 500 pieces. And attack helicopters a couple of hundred. But with our air defense it’s just luxurious, you can see who else is flying and how.

And what conclusion immediately suggests itself?

For our woofers - the most pleasant. Indeed, having believed in the strength and power of NATO, that is, the American army, Europeans do not really spend too much on their ground forces. There are countries that openly demonstrate a desire to completely shift their security onto the shoulders of someone from the bloc, that is, the United States.

А зря.

The number of American soldiers in Europe is also steadily declining, and if the sources do not lie, now about 30-32 thousand people, not more.

Of course, you can transfer as many people as you like by sea and air to defend allies in the bloc. In the air, however, you don’t do much manure. By sea it is both more profitable and safer. But will those who decide to swim in the English Channel wait for this moment?

No, they will not do.

But on the way near the Russian columns, nobody really twitches. The microscope was set aside, the magnifier was set aside. We will really look at those who can "stand day and night hold out."

The fact that the Poles recruited people into the army and bribed the “Leopards” is something to rejoice for them. But the number of people is not an absolute indicator, for the Polish army is armed with frank Soviet (albeit modernized) scrap. 1000 tanks is, of course, a figure, but the quality is clearly not present. The half that T-72M. This is still the 1980th year.

Considering how the Poles do not like us ... Taking into account their ambition ... Moreover, “we beat you 100 years ago” ... Well, yes, they will last a couple of days. Still, we have the year 2020, not 1920, in our yard, we must understand. And they’re fighting not a thousand tanks, they are fighting the army in the aggregate. Taken together, the Polish army is as junk as all the armies of our former ATS allies. Armed with junk that Soviet, that German.

Yes, the army of the former police department is a heartbreaking sight, of course. On the one hand, everyone seems to have joined NATO, but almost everyone has official permission to complete the use of Soviet equipment, as there is no money for a new, NATO-style one.

For example, I’m terribly interested in where 1500 tanks went from Hungary, what didn’t we take out of there? Really drank everything?

Nevertheless, all these so-called (or ironically called) “armies” are nothing more than something, “for the parade”. Like in the Baltic states. That is, there is something to show at the parade, but to fight ...

The ground forces of Germany, Italy, France and Switzerland look much more solid. More precisely, I would have put it somewhat differently: France, Switzerland, Germany, Italy. But in any case, the Bundeswehr is not the same, and the Italians as fighters are still not the same. More precisely, they were never “those”.

On the whole, if you look at the map and the sheet with the numbers listed, it turns out that in the case of "if that", then in fact there will be almost a walk to the Franco-Swiss-German border. There is no one to resist there. There is simply no one.

Perhaps the Germans and French will be able to show something there, but there is no certainty, to be honest. If a Russian can go on such a trip because "purely for fun and in general these rainbow-colored ones got it," then I doubt that the Germans and French will demonstrate miracles of perseverance and professionalism.

Still, the armies we have today are for the most part not for war, but for peace ...

By and large, it is necessary to consider such a moment as the willingness to arrange such a ... Red Alert. Observed in our country allows us to conclude that we can do this without very much straining. Because tolerant Europeans are not former Iraqi officers from terrorist groups in Syria and the Muslim world team in the mountains of Chechnya.

It is much simpler.

Perhaps this is precisely why all (or almost all) in Europe, on the one hand, are reducing their armies and selling equipment somewhere, on the other hand, they are afraid or afraid.

And this is also correct and justified.

The result is a funny situation: the European armies are nothing of themselves, with rare exceptions. Although the technical equipment of the same Bundeswehr, although above all praise, they are fighting not only with technology. They are also fighting with people. With the Poles, on the contrary, people most likely have, there is no technology. Etc.

And all hope is only that the Russians will not go off the coils and decide to take a walk to the canal, or the Americans, who are supposed to protect their allies in the bloc.

Interestingly, much like this alignment like the Americans?

After all, these are completely different things: on the one hand, to establish a “democratic order” in Iran or Libya, on the other hand, to go on a clinch with the Russians.

In any case, in situation No. 2, the armies of European countries are clearly not helpers. No, like meat completely. But no more than that. So if suddenly we decide - there will be no one to stop, except for the USA. It all looks strange in Europe, to be honest. Why then such an army, it is completely incomprehensible.
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 19 January 2020 04: 43
    +2
    The Armed Forces of Ukraine today are at war at the level of the First World War, without aviation


    Well, why was there a recent attempt by the best army in Europe to use a drone ... hehe heh ... and laughter and sin.
    defenders of the DPR "stole" the enemy "Furia"

    https://pikinform.ru/warsnews/vojna-na-donbasse/provokacija-sorvana-zashhitniki-dnr-ugnali-vrazheskuju-furiju.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru
    But seriously looking into the depths of history, all the best armies of the world passed the exam in Russia and failed miserably.
    I think we have to conduct another exam to test the next best US army in the world ... let's see what happens.
    1. cradle
      cradle 19 January 2020 09: 27
      +8
      I hope we will test together in the trench? drinks
      1. Shurik70
        Shurik70 19 January 2020 23: 16
        +3
        will be almost a walk

        Provided that the aliens, the Unknown Crap or the economic crisis will block nuclear weapons. And if at the same time the Russians go crazy and decide to shoulder the care of Geyropa
        Why then such armies, it is completely incomprehensible

        And without an army there will be no state. At all.
        Some policemen, even from the crowd of migrants, do not fight back. Not to mention the invasion of a well-equipped gang of a couple of thousand people.
        The Vikings robbed a couple of hundred Paris. Followers will be found very quickly.
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 19 January 2020 09: 59
      +20
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I think we have to conduct another exam to test the next best US army in the world ... let's see what happens.

      Do we need it? English boots in the English Channel ... Why? Are there few problems now? And in general, from the article, Roman evokes Urya-patriotism. Not so few armored vehicles in Europe and it is not indicated how many any anti-tank weapons.
      To rush to Europe today is to turn the whole world against yourself! So what for, - we still have things to do at home!
      Migratory birds fly
      In the autumn, they gave blue
      They fly to hot countries
      And I stay with you.
      And I stay with you
      Native land forever!
      I don’t need the Turkish coast,
      And I do not need Africa.

      I’ve seen a lot of countries,
      Stepping with a rifle in hand.
      And there was no sadder
      How to live far from you.
      A lot of thoughts I changed my mind
      With friends in a distant land.
      And there was no greater debt
      How to fulfill your will.

      Let me drown in swamps
      Let me freeze on ice
      But if you tell me again
      I will pass all this again.
      Desires and hopes
      I have connected forever with you -
      With your harsh and clear
      With your enviable fate.

      Migratory birds fly
      Look for the past summer.
      They fly to hot countries
      I don’t want to fly away
      And I stay with you
      My dear friend!
      I do not need someone else's sun,
      Foreign land is not needed!
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 19 January 2020 10: 02
        +4
        Europe may not get to fight with us because it well remembers how it ended ... but the Americans will have to be taught good manners sooner or later ... since I look they are already openly killing official representatives of foreign countries and there is no guarantee that they will not do the same for our civil servants.
        1. figwam
          figwam 19 January 2020 12: 09
          +5
          The number of American soldiers in Europe is also steadily declining, and if the sources do not lie, now about 30-32 thousand people, not more.

          The number of American soldiers in Europe 62 thousand in reality may be even more constantly rotating, the exercises are becoming larger and gradually moving towards our borders, if it starts, then the whole mess, as we understand it, will be for Kaliningrad, which will not be clear later. Yes, and forgot about the Swedes, Norwegians and Finns.
          1. kit88
            kit88 19 January 2020 18: 06
            +10
            Everything is clear with Europe.
            It would be interesting to read the Continuation ...
            How things are on our eastern flank.
            What if:
            That night, the samurai decided
            Cross the river
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 19 January 2020 13: 02
          +1
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Europe may not get to fight with us as it well remembers how it ended ...

          The morale of the Europeans ended in the First World War. In World War II, Europeans surrendered to Hitler in days and weeks. England did not suffer this fate, because it is an island.
          So talking seriously about washing your feet in the English Channel is stupid. Europeans do not want to fight with us (I mean the people) .. For a long time in all countries of the world, the townsfolk, for the most part, have understood what Fake News is worth and what their words are worth. This is especially evident in Germany.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 20 January 2020 10: 02
            +5
            Europeans gave up because they dreamed of joining the Great Robbery Campaign in Russia. And they joined in huge numbers. It's just that it’s not customary to mention it loudly, including with us. That is, in fact, they didn’t even fight against the Germans from the moment the Germans passed the exam for the professional suitability of the campaign leader - they took France by the gills.
            What will happen now no one knows. All our forecasts are forested. Recall the beginning of that war. We just had a lot of equipment and weapons. We had a training in Finnish. We (as it seemed) had the highest morale. And what? The total panic of the command staff. Absolute incompetence at all levels when using technology, especially tanks. The utter ignorance by both theorists and practitioners of realities that would seem to be absolutely obvious - for example, the complete superiority of the Germans in aviation, which broke all tactical schemes in the Red Army. Etc.
            I strongly suspect that the moral-volitional qualities of the current Russian (let me remind you that there is no longer a Russian warrior. It is destroyed, because its moral-volitional qualities cause panic in our commanders) of the army will be a huge surprise for our commanders and commanders.

            Well, what about nuclear weapons ... and who will use it in determining quantities? England and France? Even if they decide, they cannot penetrate our missile defense system. The quantities are not the same. USA? And why, actually? For fears that "the damned Russians will grow stronger"? Hehe ... How will it be strengthened? The most delicious production has long been in China. Earth? We already have it ... People? The quality of the European human resource, shall we say, does not shine. Etc.
            In addition, in the event of such a war in Europe, the most logical thing for the United States would be (and they cannot fail to understand this) situationally blocking with China and coming to share the booty of the winner. The militarily exhausted victor will be forced to give these "peacekeepers" the best pieces just so that he is simply not devoured. So the plot is quite working ...
            1. Sergey10789
              Sergey10789 22 January 2020 13: 13
              -1
              Oh! In the next topic, our missile defense systems are discussing exactly the same!) And judging by the comments of experts, we have no one about! ((((
    3. Moon
      Moon 20 January 2020 00: 29
      -1
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      https://pikinform.ru/warsnews/vojna-na-donbasse/provokacija-sorvana-zashhitniki-dnr-ugnali-vrazheskuju-furiju.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru

      no photo or evidence.
      A reference to "Information from the mouth of one of".
      And considering in the material again "clashes between the military and nationalists" -the level of trust falls to such a source-marked-fake.
      Although as propaganda material will do. It’s bad for him that even patriots cheer for a long time have not believed in this.
      Well, if seriously looking into the depths of history, all the best armies of the world passed the exam in Russia and failed miserably

      here on the VO pop-up window was an article how many times they took Moscow. So it turns out more than once.
      The best armies did not have logistics for 1/7 land, although if we recall the Mongols (although it was a long time ago). The Poles also arrived (but they were not the main ones). The French took it. Tatars took.
      Only Napoleon is suitable for this definition. And Hitler.
      And it cost us dearly .... too much tension of resources. Better as in Seven Years. And far from us and more successful.
    4. Aldmit_2
      Aldmit_2 20 January 2020 19: 27
      +1
      Will you personally take the exam? Or is it a purely expert opinion from the couch?
  2. bessmertniy
    bessmertniy 19 January 2020 04: 52
    +15
    Judging by the article, Europe can only be pitied. In any case, with this correlation, the Russian threat is really a serious factor for her. On the other hand, probably in Europe there is also a certain disbelief in Russia's aggressiveness. If this were not so, then she would have armed herself at full speed. Actually, it also violet refers to the fact that the Americans are reducing their presence on the continent. On the contrary, fewer Americans - less anxiety and provocation. And one more thing - today Russia simply has no reason to fight with Europe, and Europe with Russia. If there are disagreements, then they are resolved by peaceful means. hi
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 19 January 2020 05: 08
        +28
        Before the occupation of Crimea, one could still argue about the absence of aggression,

        And there was no occupation ... Crimea returned to Russia voluntarily on the basis of a popular referendum ... that Ksati is registered in the UN ... this would not have been possible without the support of the people.
        So pro-Nazi Ukraine whizzed past at full speed.
        1. pack
          pack 19 January 2020 05: 15
          -33
          The UN has been quite obvious, so take a look: https://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/68/262&Lang=R
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 19 January 2020 05: 21
            +16
            Anglo-Saxons spoke quite obviously ... the Crimea in Russia, like a bone in their throat, broke all plans to strangle Russia with the Anaconda ring. smile
            Therefore, you can pour out bile as much as you like, but you can’t see Crimea as your ears.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 January 2020 09: 10
            +10
            Quote: Rudel
            The UN spoke out quite obviously

            UN sets ... country borders? belay fool
            Explore its goals (from the UN website)
            The United Nations is haunting four goals: maintaining peace and security on the planet; development of friendly relations between countries; cooperation in solving international problems and in ensuring respect for human rights; and coordination of actions of different countries.

            Got it?

            In Europe, the inviolability of the post-war borders is recognized.

            After the war, Crimea was part of Russia. Transfer in the so-called. "Ukraine" did not comply with the USSR Constitution.

            Accordingly, Crimea is Russia, which was confirmed by the referendum.
            1. figwam
              figwam 19 January 2020 12: 20
              +5
              Quote: Olgovich
              Transfer in the so-called. "Ukraine" did not comply with the USSR Constitution.

              Quite right, the transfer of the peninsula was illegal, and Khrushchev transferred Crimea internally, to the Ukrainian Republic as part of the USSR, and not to a new independent state called Ukraine.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 19 January 2020 13: 04
                +2
                Quote: figvam
                That's right, transferring the peninsula was illegal

                Even when Crimea illegally belonged to Ukraine, Sevastopol remained a Russian city by law in view of its special status. hi
            2. Moon
              Moon 20 January 2020 00: 37
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              Crimea is Russia

              it is very strange that the Russian Federation itself has confirmed that Crimea belongs to Ukraine. They approved the borders. Recognized, Confirmed more than once. They gave some kind of guarantee there.
              But the rule of Frederick 2 is valid to this day.
              True, it was more expensive.
          3. cradle
            cradle 19 January 2020 09: 31
            +5
            The UN is no longer an authority, and I am sure that we are there only for the time being, for the time being ... the creation of a new international (and not sub-mattress) organization. Not when I did not like mattresses ... laughing
      2. Wanderer039
        Wanderer039 19 January 2020 05: 12
        +28
        Well, the Crimea was occupied by Ukraine, spitting in the USSR constitution in 1954, in 2014, invaders from the Crimea
      3. kpd
        kpd 19 January 2020 08: 21
        +13
        A new word in military affairs is occupation by referendum ...
        Manuals are cool, but I personally participated in that referendum.
        1. Sadam
          Sadam 19 January 2020 19: 30
          -2
          referendum is not a panacea, let’s refer to all Basque Catalans or mountaineers in the Caucasus and where will we come ???
          about the article - the author’s message is not clear - we are afraid of you there and so you are still pumping about lambsha. I understand that in the states of 6 thousand salaries can even spend 600 billion on bombs, but we, from all of this listed Europe, are the most rogue - what can I brag about ???
          1. cradle
            cradle 20 January 2020 02: 39
            0
            What is the strength in, brother? In the money? No, not money, brother.
      4. Fedorovich
        Fedorovich 19 January 2020 08: 29
        +4
        Hansik, how many Soviet battleships did you drown yesterday?
    2. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 19 January 2020 05: 02
      +3
      Quote: bessmertniy
      Judging by the article, Europe can only be pitied.

      apparently from here and hysterical moods in Europe
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 19 January 2020 07: 46
      +8
      In any case, with this correlation, the Russian threat is really a serious factor for her.


      There is such a thing .... I always wrote here that the armies of Europe are full of junk and zero opportunities and desire to fight. But this is good, after two world wars. And the allocation of 2% of GDP for the army allows you to give more to social programs.

      So all the screams today in Europe, the flat Russian threat, are just the screams of the military-industrial complex, which want to add a bold and enlarged European military budget. Everything is simple.

      Although it really would be necessary to invest a little money in the army, while it is still available at all.
    5. Olgovich
      Olgovich 19 January 2020 08: 55
      -2
      Quote: bessmertniy
      In any case, with this correlation, the Russian threat is really a serious factor for her. On the other hand, probably in Europe there is also a certain disbelief in Russia's aggressiveness. If this were not so, then she would have armed herself at full speed.

      An army of 100 for a tiny, never-at-war Switzerland is a fact contrary to common sense.

      Romanians with 77 were surprised, "warriors", yes ....

      In general, it turns out interesting: real warriors (Germans, Hungarians, Autrians) have none armies versus "warriors" (Romania, Switzerland, France, the Netherlands)
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 19 January 2020 09: 30
        -4
        Quote: Olgovich
        An army of 100 for a tiny, never-at-war Switzerland is a fact contrary to common sense.

        Therefore, not at war. Even Hitler was afraid to go in there at the time.

        Reasonable approach for a small rich country.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 19 January 2020 10: 38
          -4
          Quote: Octopus
          Even hitler was afraid there climb in due time.

          Hitler was afraid ... Swiss army ?! belay

          France, Belgium, Nieder, Denmark and so forth was not afraid, but shmakodyavki-scared .....
          request

          Lead straight testimonies Germans about this (only without the chatter that it is "obvious", "did not attack, so he was afraid", etc.))
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 19 January 2020 11: 27
            -7
            Quote: Olgovich
            France, Belgium, Nieder, Denmark and so forth was not afraid, but shmakodyavki-scared .....

            Yes exactly. Therefore, Switzerland, surrounded on all sides by the Reich and its allies, retained independence.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Give direct testimonies

            Google "plan redoubt", EMNIP.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 19 January 2020 11: 32
              0
              Quote: Octopus
              Yes exactly. Therefore, Switzerland, surrounded on all sides by the Reich and its allies, retained independence. . .

              No, absolutely not. It was Hitler who kept her "independence", not Switzerland itself
              Quote: Octopus
              Google "plan redoubt", EMNIP.

              That is, in addition to the CHAPTER, you have zero evidence.

              Rt
            2. albert
              albert 19 January 2020 21: 25
              +1
              Quote: Octopus
              Google "plan redoubt"

              Googled "Operation Tannerbaum".
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 19 January 2020 21: 34
                -3
                Quote: albert
                Operation Tannerbaum

                Yes, yes, thank you.
                For reasons that are still uncertain, Hitler never ordered the invasion. One theory is that a neutral Switzerland would have been useful to hide Axis gold and to serve as a refuge for war criminals in case of defeat. [22] This may also explain Germany's continued recognition of Sweden's neutrality. One simpler explanation is that there would have been little strategic gain in conquering Switzerland, while a drawn-out and costly mountain war might well have ensued... Although the Wehrmacht feigned moves against Switzerland in its offensives, it never attempted to invade.
                1. albert
                  albert 19 January 2020 21: 39
                  0
                  In case of victory over the Union, Switzerland was crushed in an instant, and no relations with neutrals, such as Sweden, could save them. I doubt that the Germans, who controlled the fortifications of Belgium and the Stalin line, were frightened of the Swiss forts.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 19 January 2020 21: 48
                    -2
                    Quote: albert
                    In case of victory over the Union,

                    And I do not discuss whether it was possible to defeat Switzerland at any price. But here at a reasonable price - you can’t.

                    To make it clearer, the trick "too big a price for too little victory" happened in the same years in Finland, though with much greater effort and sacrifice.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 20 January 2020 10: 44
                      0
                      Quote: Octopus
                      And I do not discuss whether it was possible to defeat Switzerland at any cost. But here at a reasonable price - you can’t.

                      Die Schweiz, das kleine Stachelschwein, nehmen wir auf dem Ruckweg ein!“That's what the Germans said, not the rubbish you brought.”

                      The Germans easily took northern Switzerland with all its major cities, and the Turks in the mountains died out of starvation within a year or two. So you know: Switzerland imported the main part of food consumed.

                      And even being unoccupied, starving.
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus 20 January 2020 10: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Die Schweiz, das kleine Stachelschwein, nehmen wir auf dem Ruckweg ein!

                        )))
                        We'll take Switzerland, the little porcupine, on the way back!

                        But I would translate it differently.
                        Green grapes!


                        And about starving - Stirlitz even when he told Soviet people about 6 varieties of sour cream. Lied, it turns out? Or is this hunger, without hunger there were 15 varieties?
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 January 2020 11: 17
                        -1
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And about starving - Stirlitz even when he told Soviet people about 6 varieties of sour cream. Lied, it turns out? Or is this hunger, without hunger there were 15 varieties?

                        You have a good source, yes! yes

                        They had nothing to eat, because food was not produced there in unshakable quantities.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Green grapes!


                        Hitler saved Switzerland-for myself andshe completely fell under it, right up to transporting the slaves of the Reich along its roads, transporting all military cargo, serving its financial operations with the whole world, and its industry worked for Hekrmania -70% of the export went there.
                      3. Octopus
                        Octopus 20 January 2020 12: 41
                        0
                        Did Switzerland pass military supplies? Very interesting, thanks.
                      4. your1970
                        your1970 25 January 2020 22: 21
                        0
                        Deliveries of watches from Switzerland, for example, went both to the Reich and to England. What I don’t understand at all is how to take the watch out of blocked Switzerland from all sides Isle(!!)
                      5. Octopus
                        Octopus 26 January 2020 11: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Watch deliveries from Switzerland, for example, went both to the Reich and to England. What I don’t understand at all

                        You don't understand the meaning of the word "neutrality".
                        Quote: your1970
                        take the watch to the island from blocked from all sides of Switzerland

                        Who told you that Switzerland was blocked from all sides?

                        Firstly, nobody blocked her, she is neutral. The Reich passed cargo from neutral Switzerland to neutral Sweden, and from Sweden to Britain. Similarly, Italy - to neutral Spain.

                        Secondly, from the west, Switzerland until the end of the 42nd year borders with neutral Vichy France. It’s not like a watch, there’s a whole American ambassador, and not horse-radish, but Admiral Lehi (William Daniel Leahy), for a moment, close to Roosevelt, commander of the US Navy 37-39, with the aim of dissolving the French LJ ... for food .

                        Darlan’s efficiency in Algeria was largely due to the fact that conversations about the right side of the war with him were conducted much in advance.
                      6. your1970
                        your1970 26 January 2020 14: 55
                        0
                        This confirms that Hitler's war with the West was correctly called "strange"
                      7. Octopus
                        Octopus 26 January 2020 14: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Hitler's war with the West was correctly called "strange"

                        Switzerland never fought with Hitler.
                      8. your1970
                        your1970 26 January 2020 16: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Quote: your1970
                        Hitler's war with the West was correctly called "strange"

                        Switzerland never fought with Hitler.
                        -I wrote somewhere that I fought?
          2. Moon
            Moon 20 January 2020 00: 43
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Hitler was afraid ... Swiss army?

            There are several articles on VO about the Swiss army.
            And it makes you sad that you didn’t read. And you do not know what constitutes the army and people of Switzerland. There everyone is a fighter. And every home is an armory. And everyone stores weapons and ammunition. And the country is crammed with defensive structures. And very difficult in relief and terrain. And each residents was trained in the work of a partisan saboteur and a warrior.
            Think of it not as a country, but as an armed camp where everyone can shoot and will shoot and with what will shoot.
            This is the most armed country in the world! (By the number of trunks, perhaps the US is ahead)
            They have the best training for the people's army.
            It’s better not to go there. The Germans killed 2 or 3 birds with one stone without attacking them.
            And the problems are serious and the communication channel.
            Swiss people are serious.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 20 January 2020 10: 23
              -1
              Quote: Σελήνη
              There are several articles on VO about the Swiss army.
              And it becomes sad that you didn’t read. And you do not know what constitutes the army and people of Switzerland.

              I know well.

              You are not.
              Quote: Σελήνη
              There everyone is a fighter.

              lol
              Quote: Σελήνη
              . And every home is an armory. And everyone stores weapons and ammunition.

              Oh, then the Americans are also warriors of the hoo: how do they crumble with dozens at music festivals
              Quote: Σελήνη
              .And each inhabitants was trained in the case of a partisan saboteur and a warrior.
              Think of it not as a country, but as an armed camp where everyone can shoot and will shoot and with what will shoot.

              lol laughing
              Quote: Σελήνη
              The Germans killed 2 or 3 birds with one stone without attacking them.
              And the problems are serious and the communication channel.

              Switzerland completely fell under Germany: fulfilled ALL of their requirements, even doing such an abomination as transporting the slaves of the Reich through its territory, financing the Nazis, etc., etc.
              Quote: Σελήνη
              Swiss people are serious.

              And the neighbors of the LUXEMBOURGES are not serious, the Franks are not serious, as are the Belgians and other Danes. yes
              1. Moon
                Moon 22 January 2020 00: 25
                -2
                Quote: Olgovich
                You are not.

                unconditionally. I read them. Yes, and additional material on fees and formation. Participant reports and reviews.
                Of course, this does not count. We won’t stand for the price.
                But we do not have a human reserve! We have no demographic future ....
                we are not Chinese with Indians ...
                so no slogan at all costs.
                There is no war economy, no people. There is no way to fight at any cost.
                Expensive, long, bloody.
                Switzerland completely fell under Germany: fulfilled ALL of their requirements, even dealing with such an abomination as transporting the slaves of the Reich through its territory, financing the Nazis, etc., etc.

                You can fulfill all the requirements while remaining untouched. The US won out even the holy thing - banks.
                In addition, Germany, the main trading partner turned out. The economy depended.
                And the requirements / trade supply ... That's what everyone was doing. Someone even sent the train at 4 in the morning, and after 2 hours they already received gifts. And even earlier they even managed to fight even with opponents.
                To buy ammunition and coal from some in the same siege of PA and fighting on the Kwantung p-island.
                In the world, trade has no borders
                And all nations can be stubborn. Or weak.
                Everything is cyclical.
            2. your1970
              your1970 25 January 2020 22: 30
              0
              Quote: Σελήνη
              And it makes you sad that you didn’t read. And you do not know what constitutes the army and people of Switzerland. There everyone is a fighter. And every home is an armory. And everyone stores weapons and ammunition. And the country is crammed with defensive structures. And very difficult in relief and terrain. And each residents was trained in the work of a partisan saboteur and a warrior.

              there was such a country the Czech Republic, its a little bit in 1938, they used it ...

              And an excellent army with a sufficient number of tanks (superior at that time German !!), aircraft, artillery and fortified areas along the border (the part that goes through the mountains, ideal for defense !!) surrendered in a matter of days, or rather minutes ...

              the flip side is Afghanistan. The ordinary Mujahideen had nothing to lose, they didn’t have a nifig. So war is war ...
              Now imagine the Swiss - who have something to lose ...
        2. max702
          max702 19 January 2020 11: 37
          +6
          I was not afraid, but did not see the point .. During the war, the Reich did its best to trade with its opponents (with the exception of the USSR) Switzerland was a laundry and settlement center, so Hitler did not touch it .. Why? But if the USSR had fallen and on the continent all countries would automatically fall under Reich after that, then yes, Switzerland would simply become one more German land .. Spending resources on someone who categorically does not interfere but who actually will not help .. What’s case with Switzerland and are watching ..
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. perm23
          perm23 20 January 2020 05: 14
          +1
          He was not afraid. just did not. and so from there I received everything and through them. Why touch it if it's already yours .. The elusive Jn is not because no one can catch him. and just fucking nobody needs him
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 20 January 2020 08: 43
            -3
            Quote: perm23
            he just doesn’t need anyone

            Quote: albert
            Googled "Operation Tannerbaum".
      2. Luty
        Luty 19 January 2020 10: 05
        -2
        The Swiss army is a very excellent military machine. And the approach to its acquisition and training is extremely rational. We would.
        1. vvkroxa
          vvkroxa 19 January 2020 12: 04
          +3
          Available sidekick natural Swiss. His wife's friend is married to him. Once every couple of years we come to visit them. Well, they rush here to their parents. Here is an example of the "fighting efficiency" of the Swiss army - the machine is kept in the closet and somehow, getting ready for the next training camp, asks his wife - Tanya! Should I take a gun with me or not? So much for all the fighting efficiency. Yes, and he himself, over a glass of Chemerges, more than once grimaced and said that the army sucks. Something like that.
          1. Luty
            Luty 19 January 2020 19: 11
            +1
            Yes, the guy is just funny. In our country, most of the storage tanks were held in their hands only when they served. Yes, and where are these storage tanks. try to call again.
          2. Moon
            Moon 20 January 2020 00: 45
            -3
            Quote: vvkroxa
            that the army sucks

            everyone is called for training. No matter who you are. An official or a merchant or a criminal businessman.
            Absenteeism is severely punished.
            Everyone should visit them and be able to shoot and learn military craft
            It is clear that this is difficult for conformists. Yes, and store machine guns and machine guns at home, also annoying some. Responsibility.
            But where are you still looking for a country where everyone shoots 2 weeks a year or more, regardless of who he is? And not for 2 years, but much longer. For the entire military age ...
      3. polar fox
        polar fox 19 January 2020 21: 18
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        An army of 100 for a tiny, never-at-war Switzerland is a fact contrary to common sense.

        there is more ... the entire male population regularly passes fees. The house holds weapons and uniforms.
        1. Jager
          Jager 19 January 2020 22: 44
          0
          And what, what will an infantryman do with one "rifleman", given the population of this very Switzerland?
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 19 January 2020 23: 10
            -1
            Quote: Jager
            what an infantryman will do with one "rifleman"

            1. There is a heavy weapon nearby.
            2. What can a large army of a small country do - see Israel.
            1. Jager
              Jager 20 January 2020 10: 12
              0
              About Israel is not necessary. If not for the USA and the USSR, "small but proud" would not be on the map now. And they would sit quietly now, some in Brighton, some in Birobidzhan.
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 20 January 2020 10: 33
                0
                Quote: Jager
                If not for the USA and the USSR, "small but proud" would not be on the map now

                )))
                Nevertheless, such a small Israel is still on the map. But I have to say that such a large USSR is not.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 20 January 2020 10: 31
              -1
              Quote: Octopus
              2. What can a large army of a small country do - see Israel.

              Horseradish is also similar to carrots. lol
          2. Moon
            Moon 20 January 2020 00: 57
            -4
            Quote: Jager
            And what, what will an infantryman do with one "rifleman", given the population of this very Switzerland?

            ATGM and RPGs are also stored. And warehouses with an arsenal are also nearby. By the way, they are covered.
            The impression that they are always ready for war.
            And by the way, see how much Switzerland spends on GDP — which has not fought for a long time ...
            there the terrain is not plain. They will stop the tanks quickly. Aviation in such areas is also not effective.
            If Roma decided to withdraw the entire million troops from all borders of the Russian Federation, exposing all fronts, and strolling through Europe, breaking everyone separately and not even aware of some armies (such as Switzerland)
            I’m forced to grieve.
            Firstly, he won’t take off a million. These are all borders without cover. Huge movements are complicated logistics. And Europe is easier - they are more compact and all armies are in a fist. It is easier to defend.
            I was glad that Roma and the Russian Guard will throw in the Baltic ..
            Ukraine-Poland, and others does not count. He is going to stretch the logistics through their territory and leave Rosguardia in the Baltic states ...
            When asked how he was going to deliver all the resources of the war through ("easily occupied" Ukraine and Poland), apparently rhetorical. Probably by air. Since the territory of the largest country in Europe and rather big Poland with disloyal inhabitants requires a huge army! What all the propagandists told us about in the theory "why didn't they help ORDLO" - because the occupation of Ukraine is very difficult and expensive.
            Fantasy work for hyper cheers patriots.
            When Roma compares the number of millions and the armies of the EU countries, you can stop him ..
            Roma is such a LOGISTICS of war.
            So, proceeding from its postulates, farther than the Baltic states and Ukraine, there are no logistic opportunities to wage war further.
            There will be no resources and money.
            1. Jager
              Jager 20 January 2020 10: 09
              0
              Suvorov would have laughed now.
          3. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 20 January 2020 08: 25
            0
            Kovpak ask ... Also, with one shooting started ...
  3. Ilya-spb
    Ilya-spb 19 January 2020 04: 57
    -10
    Europe is waiting for another invasion from the East, which will rot rotten countries.

    As in the days of the Roman Empire or in the days of the Mongols with the Ottoman Turks.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 19 January 2020 05: 05
      +20
      Roman made an interesting analysis ... And now the question is: Do we need it?
      1. Moon
        Moon 20 January 2020 00: 59
        -1
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        interesting analysis

        was it an analysis?
        In my opinion it was humor. In the style of Zhirinovsky.
        To the question of Roma, who will stop there is a wonderful answer!
        Logistics and common sense.
    2. KrokodilGena
      KrokodilGena 19 January 2020 06: 38
      +2
      Quote: Ilya-spb
      Europe is waiting for another invasion from the East, which will rot rotten countries.

      As in the days of the Roman Empire or in the days of the Mongols with the Ottoman Turks.

      Neither the Turks nor the Mongols could capture Europe, beyond the Balkans, the gates of Vienna and the south of the Iberian Peninsula did not let them in, and there he did not last long. Just against invasions from outside, Arabs, or Ottomans, or Mongols, Europe always waged war endlessly with each other.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 19 January 2020 08: 24
        +6
        Quote: KrokodilGena
        Neither Turks nor Mongols

        Both those and other Russian troops stopped, as far as I remember. wink
        According to the article, Roman somewhat underestimates the enemy in my opinion. The expeditionary forces of the USA and Great Britain are not mentioned, but they will be 100%. In addition, the logistics capabilities of the United States are much higher than ours.
        It’s completely frivolous, you can not even bother the army, enough of the Russian Guard.
        I recalled the phrase Grachev, who promised to take Grozny with one regiment of the Airborne Forces within 2 hours.
        1. bessmertniy
          bessmertniy 19 January 2020 09: 01
          +6
          In principle, somewhere in the subconscious, it is still preserved that we can simply throw our enemy caps. wassat
          1. Moon
            Moon 20 January 2020 01: 01
            -2
            Quote: bessmertniy
            In principle, we still have somewhere in the subconscious

            after the REV and especially the Winter and 41-42 years
            blood should be recorded at the genetic level to avoid capillations!
        2. Octopus
          Octopus 19 January 2020 09: 40
          -4
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          and other Russian troops stopped, as I recall

          This is where they stopped them? In Poland and Austria, respectively?
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Roman somewhat underestimates the enemy in my opinion

          Roman on the way to the English Channel will be intercepted by nannies. If you want to speak seriously, you need to look at the grouping that the Russian Federation can really form (they say that 080808 is the maximum that can be gathered relatively quickly), and on the other hand, NATO operational forces, 30-30-30. If NATO has real problems on the ground, there are only light forces with a muddy organization of command, then aviation only in the quick reaction units corresponds to the whole Russian taken together.
          1. Liam
            Liam 19 January 2020 10: 57
            0
            Quote: Octopus
            Romana en route to the English Channel

            He showered everyone with hats. I counted the number of only ground troops among the "opponents". And they proudly announced that Russia had a million.
            Ground forces of the Russian Federation


            Function
            ground troops

            Strength
            280 people (as of 000) [2018]
        3. Ros 56
          Ros 56 19 January 2020 10: 07
          -1
          You can talk about logistics in more detail, otherwise these clowns will overhaul the second Overlord again, but we have weapons not of the last century, and their ships and planes are practically at the same level.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 19 January 2020 10: 31
            +2
            Quote: Ros 56
            About logistics, you can read more

            Information on support ships and US military tankers in the public domain. Like transport aviation. In comparison with the USA, we are much more modest. Regrettably, but a fact.
            1. Ros 56
              Ros 56 19 January 2020 10: 35
              0
              So these ships and planes still need to get to the shores of Oyropa, it's not so simple. fellow negative lol
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 19 January 2020 10: 58
                +4
                Quote: Ros 56
                So these ships and planes still have to get to the shores of Oyropa,

                They have many more opportunities in the Atlantic. This is not an undeniable fact. How would you and I would not like the opposite. request
                1. Ros 56
                  Ros 56 19 January 2020 18: 13
                  +1
                  I believe every beast, but for now I’ll wait for you. These tales for unreasonable children I already hear hell knows how many, probably fifty years. Everything in stripes is better than ours and opportunities are greater than ours, only they wake up contacting us for some reason. And during the Cuban crisis, although then they really were more powerful than us, and now even more so they will put in our pants. But with those who can not tap on their turnips, here they are heroes. Even in Vietnam they managed it, and now they are sitting in Afghanistan at the bases in Afghanistan. So there is no need to dust not on business.
        4. Jager
          Jager 19 January 2020 22: 46
          0
          Objectively, there are no serious aircraft in the Baltics.
      2. intuzazist
        intuzazist 19 January 2020 09: 35
        -3
        Neither the Turks nor the Mongols could capture Europe, beyond the Balkans, only because Russia stood in their way !!! And only when the Mongols united with the dews did they reach Rome .....
      3. perm23
        perm23 20 January 2020 05: 17
        0
        Who stopped them then. they were stopped by one distance and the logistics have already passed so much. And not the European army.
  4. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 19 January 2020 04: 59
    +17
    Not stupid people live in Europe, they understand that there will not be a major war, and for the rest, there is enough, so why should they maintain a large army and buy a huge amount of expensive equipment? They are pouring this money into infrastructure and industrial production.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 19 January 2020 05: 09
      +4
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Not stupid people live in Europe

      after they let in a bunch of tanned ... I doubt their mental abilities.
      1. bessmertniy
        bessmertniy 19 January 2020 05: 16
        +8
        Perhaps these tanned for them more serious threat than Russia. It is enough to recall the pogroms in Paris when this tanned youth burned cars with Molotov cocktails.
      2. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 19 January 2020 05: 21
        +13
        And in our capital on a religious holiday did not see how much comes out? So far, everything is quiet, but in the regions do you know how much? Tyumen, Surgut, etc.
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 19 January 2020 05: 36
          0
          Quote: Pessimist22
          While everything is quiet,
      3. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 19 January 2020 08: 25
        0
        Quote: Aerodrome
        after they let in a bunch of tanned

        This was done on purpose, only for what purpose it is not yet clear.
      4. L-39NG
        L-39NG 19 January 2020 10: 06
        +5
        Are there few tanned people in Moscow? Though not from Africa
    2. perm23
      perm23 20 January 2020 05: 18
      0
      Katz offers to surrender so that .. No army, no sovereignty. .
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 19 January 2020 05: 10
      +2
      Quote: Rudel
      But it was the scoop's outburst, the army was many times stronger.

      it was already a dilapidated army with a bunch of traitors.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 19 January 2020 09: 22
        -1
        Quote: Aerodrome
        there was already a dilapidated army with a bunch of traitors.

        It was an army in which all the officers were from the USSR Armed Forces. Part of the same GSVG, which was supposed to wash boots in the English Channel last time, part of OKSVA, where, it seems, they had to learn just such a war.
    2. Wanderer039
      Wanderer039 19 January 2020 05: 14
      +4
      Well, let's say not Chechens, but a rabble sick with Russophobia from all over the World, not badly armed and gluttonous for the courage of drugs, and he began to die quickly when the Yeltsin liberals were slightly pushed and the bandit in Chechnya was slightly killed by air-blast bombs, against which they could not even resist Strengthening the Strategic Missile Forces of the USSR in Bamut ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Wanderer039
          Wanderer039 19 January 2020 05: 26
          +9
          Well, it’s not him, but the Kremlin liberals and outright traitors prevented them from finishing off the bandits in Chechnya, as much as the bandits themselves were heroic, Basayev, who had fought with the women in the maternity hospital while trying to capture the airfield of the helicopter regiment, was killed by warriorless conscripts, after which this rot went to war with unarmed women and children, from others she regularly received kicks ... The terrible army of the Russian Federation was able to take both the First and Second Wars in Chechnya, the bandits did not succeed in its defense .... Dudaev died, Maskhadov too ... In general, a convincing victory .. .By the way, a professional mercenary, and a lot of them fought in Chechnya against the Russian Federation, better prepared than any US Army soldier
        2. Same lech
          Same lech 19 January 2020 05: 28
          +9
          Well, you see, even a rabble that has eaten up drugs could significantly pinch the Russian army.

          And where is this rabble now? ... pokes around the back streets of Europe and shakes with fear of being soaked in the toilet.
          And for our army this was a serious lesson ... the main enemy is not the drug dealer and your real soldiers, but traitors and bastards in the political elite of our government.
          Do not be betrayal and insanity would deal with these bandits much faster.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Same lech
              Same lech 19 January 2020 05: 54
              +8
              Are you not afraid that you will have to apologize on camera to the "losers" Chechens?

              Not afraid... smile my age is such that death will still be inevitable.
              And I did not say a bad word about the Chechens ... because I consider the Chechen people to be the same victims as the Russian people who were slaughtered by each other through the fault of Yeltsin and Dudayev, Khasbulatov ... studied the whole history of this massacre from both sides.
              If politicians were a little smarter and more visionary, such a massacre would not have happened ... but what happened happened ... we need to live on and draw the appropriate conclusions so as not to repeat past mistakes again.
            2. Wanderer039
              Wanderer039 19 January 2020 06: 53
              +5
              Oh, as they say in Odessa, Do not scare us with those who lost two wars to us and consider the bandit Shamil to be a national hero. He was a robber to rob passenger trains only ... And all the more, don’t scare Russian special forces, or whatever you yourself to get scared ... In addition, the Caucasians received so many kicks from a Russian army beaten by Turkey that it’s just ridiculous to compare us ... By the way, do not want to admire the boldness of Raduyev, who hanged himself in the Solikamsk cockerel ?!
              1. Same lech
                Same lech 19 January 2020 09: 34
                +1
                By the way, do not want to admire the courage of Raduyev, who hanged himself in the Solikamsk cockerel?
                No I do not want to smile he’s not interesting to me from the word, he’s not at all interested,
                but how Raduyev’s fighters were able to break through the cordon under the hard fire of our soldiers and officers on the night of January 19, 1996 is a big question.
                The main group, led by Raduyev, came out of the encirclement with hostages and a platoon of captured Novosibirsk riot policemen ... Yeltsin said that he spoke with his tongue about a dozen snipers capable of dealing with bandits ... they could not cope.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 19 January 2020 12: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: The same LYOKHA
                  Yeltsin is there that he used his tongue to say about a dozen snipers capable of coping with bandits ... failed.

                  There are many who are lying. Already to such bullshit we heard, as if the Raydayites were barefoot on a breakthrough. Alfa probably did not expect this, and therefore did not fight.
              2. sss
                sss 19 January 2020 11: 01
                +1
                Just for the sake of objectivity. Much can be said about Basayev, but he was a master not only to rob trains. I knew people who, as part of the Confederation of Highland Peoples of the North Caucasus (there was such an organization), fought in Abkhazia and personally knew Basayev. So, according to their stories, He was well versed in military affairs, Georgian nationalists were afraid of him like fire, and those who fought from Abkhazia were treated with confidence and respect. And he was one of the leaders of the capture of Sukhumi in 1993. Many of those who knew him were surprised that he participated in the capture of the hospital in Budenovsk.
            3. Wanderer039
              Wanderer039 19 January 2020 08: 14
              +9
              By the way, one of the last who dared to openly be rude to the Russians was Rasul Khalilov and his gang ... He died after receiving 5 bullets in his chest (Yusup Temirkhanov, who died in the Omsk colony, killed Colonel Yuri Budanov with shots in the back, like a coward), and his gang crows in the Solikamsk cockerel ...
              1. Same lech
                Same lech 19 January 2020 09: 39
                +9
                Yuri Budanov is an example of resilience and fearlessness to bandits for me and many thanks to him for saving the lives of many of our fighters in a critical situation when he personally taking responsibility helped them get out of the ambush of the militants ... so much dirt was poured on this officer to read vilely.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 19 January 2020 10: 21
                  -9
                  Quote: The same LYOKHA
                  Yuri Budanov for me is an example of perseverance and fearlessness in front of bandits and many thanks to him

                  For me, too, an example, thank you very much.
                  Quote: The same LYOKHA
                  so much dirt poured on this officer just to read vile.

                  And you have to.
                  CLOSING INDICTMENT

                  in relation to the colonel of military unit 13206 Budanov, Yuri Dmitrievich, accused of committing crimes under subsection "c" of Part 2 of Art. 105; h. 3 tbsp. 126; p.p. “A”, “c” part 3 of article 286 of the Criminal Code,

                  and Lieutenant Colonel of military unit 13206 Fedorov Ivan Ivanovich, accused of committing crimes under paragraphs. “A, b, c” part 3 of article 286 of the Criminal Code

                  PRE-INVESTIGATION established:

                  Budanov Yuri Dmitrievich was appointed to the post of commander of military unit 31 on August 1998, 13206. On September 16, 1999 Fedorov was appointed to the post of chief of staff - deputy commander of military unit 13206. During lunch at the officer’s canteen of the regiment Budanov and Fedorov on the occasion of his birthday Budanov’s daughters drank alcohol.
                  ...
                  Arriving personnel of the commandant platoon connected [the reconnaissance commander of the regiment of senior lieutenant] Bagreev, who was lying on the ground. Then Budanov, together with Fedorov, continued beating Bagreev lying on the ground. At the same time, Fedorov inflicted to Bagreev, lying on the ground, with his foot shod in army boots, at least 5-6 strong blows to the body, including the face; Budanov inflicted at least 3-4 blows to the trunk with Bagreev's feet, shod in army boots.

                  After the beating, Bagreev was placed in a pit, where he was in a sitting position with his arms and legs tied. 30 minutes after beating Bagreev, Fedorov returned to the pit, and jumping there, inflicted at least two blows on his face with Bagreev.
                  ...
                  Seeing that Bagreev was able to unleash, Budanov again ordered the personnel of the commandant platoon tie Bagreev. When this command was executed, Budanov, together with Fedorov, again began to beat Bagreev. Having finished the beating, on the orders of Fedorov and Budanov, Bagreev, with his hands and feet tied, was again put into the pit. When Bagreev was already in the pit, Fedorov jumped into the pit and bit Bagreev by the right eyebrow


                  Ever since i hear Russian officer - I understand that we are talking about Yuri Dmitrievich Budanov, colonel of the Russian army, and Ivan Ivanovich Fedorov, lieutenant colonel of the Russian army.

                  But Russian soldier for me now forever - Arsen Sergeyevich Pavlov, Motorola. God has given man.
                  1. Same lech
                    Same lech 19 January 2020 10: 34
                    +1
                    I do not justify what he did ... for his sins he answered in full. hitherefore, I hate this Chechen war ... they all messed up in the mud.
                    https://www.proza.ru/2006/03/10-286

                    As for Motorola ... after all, besides him, there were other volunteers ... our authorities have a double attitude towards them ... for me it is completely incomprehensible.
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus 19 January 2020 11: 08
                      -12
                      Quote: The same LYOKHA
                      I do not justify what he did ... for his sins he answered in full.

                      No, I didn’t answer.

                      You tell me about the episode with Budanov and Kungaeva, when a drunk scum killed and raped (with rape a separate song) an eighteen-year-old Russian woman (yes, Elsa Kungaeva was a Russian citizen, and Mr. Budanov restored Russian constitutionality there if anyone forgot). I, unlike the liberal public, do not feel any special emotions about this, this happens every day. In this situation, for me Budanov is an individual, an ordinary criminal, no matter what merits and circumstances he had before.

                      I tell you about the episode when Russian officer bites by the face Russian officertied and battered in the presence of others Russian officers и Russian soldiers. At the same time, Ivan Ivanovich was not shot by them on the spot. Two years later, he received 3 years in prison for abuse of authority and amnestied in the courtroom. There is no doubt that if it were not for the case with Kungaeva, this work moment would remain a personal matter of Fedorov and Bagreev.

                      This part is not about drunken criminals. This is about the Russian army. About the honor of her officers. About the dignity of her soldiers. About our country.
          2. KrokodilGena
            KrokodilGena 19 January 2020 06: 53
            +5
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            And for our army this was a serious lesson ... the main enemy is not the drug dealer and your real soldiers, but traitors and bastards in the political elite of our government.

            For many at the top, of course, the tower is crying for Chechnya, but apart from the tops, there was betrayal at all levels, officers of conscripts handed over to the militants, and then they shared the state ransom in 3 lemma, and the fact that some soldiers who were crippled and who were killed are apparently of little concern ... Also, drunkenness, drug addiction and insanity were not fun at the top, but those very soldiers and officers. Well, and the attitude of the General Staff to the military personnel of hot spots. And how the various units, the Air Force, etc. "helped and interacted", is horror.
          3. The comment was deleted.
            1. Same lech
              Same lech 19 January 2020 09: 44
              0
              Well, yes, and the Russian people will forever support them and pay tribute.

              You are wrong ... now Kadyrov is holding his thugs in his fist ... slowly sending foreign shaitans to the other world ... this is the result.
              Moreover, modern Chechnya and Chechnya of the 90s are two big differences ... as well as Russia.
          4. Octopus
            Octopus 19 January 2020 09: 27
            -2
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            where is this rabble now? ... pokes around the back streets of Europe and shakes with fear of being soaked in the toilet

            You would choose expressions. And then you can offend someone.
        3. 72jora72
          72jora72 19 January 2020 05: 55
          +6
          Well, you see, even a rabble that has eaten up drugs could significantly pinch the Russian army.
          I think at first it would not hurt you to at least superficially study the history of the 1st and 2nd Chechen wars., And then enter into a dispute here. By the way, the quantitative composition of the utilized militants is numerically greater than the armies of Germany and Austria combined.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Wanderer039
              Wanderer039 19 January 2020 08: 06
              +5
              In 1994, at the airport of the city of Grozny, the Mi-24 helicopters of the Russian Air Force burned the four-engine military transport An-12 of the Azerbaijani Air Force, and he obviously did not bring pineapples there ... Whoever didn’t fight against the Russian Federation, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan ... bandits, mercenaries and Russophobes from around the world, hell even brought the Negroes ... So for the fact that the Russian Federation in Chechnya destroyed 20-30 thousand bandits, you better be silent ... there were killed 50000 thousand from Ukraine alone ...
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 19 January 2020 09: 45
                -7
                Quote: Wanderer039
                there, from Ukraine alone, 50000 thousand were killed ...

                I remember, I remember, Yatsenyuk personally commanded them.
                1. Sapsan136
                  Sapsan136 19 January 2020 11: 47
                  +5
                  Not Yatsenyuk, but your Bobrovich, Korchinsky, Mazur and the like ...
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 19 January 2020 12: 15
                    -5
                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Not Yatsenyuk

                    How is it not Yatsenyuk? What are you talking about?
                    The head of the Investigative Committee of Russia, Alexander Bastrykin, said that the investigation received information that since 2014 an inveterate sadist and murderer has been in the post of Prime Minister of Ukraine. His name is Arseniy Yatsenyuk. The head of the Investigative Committee of Russia announced this on Tuesday in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

                    - According to the investigation, Arseniy Yatsenyuk participated in at least two armed clashes that took place on December 31, 1994 on Minutka Square in the city of Grozny and in February 1995 in the area of ​​the city hospital No. 9 in the city of Grozny, as well as in torture and execution of captured Russian army servicemen in the Oktyabrsky district of the city of Grozny on January 7, 1995. According to our information, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, among other active participants in the UNA - UNSO, in December 1995 was awarded the highest honor of Dzhokhar Dudayev "Honor of the Nation" for the destruction of Russian servicemen. The interrogated associates of Yatsenyuk characterize him as an educated, intelligent, but at the same time cunning and resourceful person, as they say, striving for power and publicity from an early age. In early 1995, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, as part of a group of journalists, returned to Ukraine through Georgia. Subsequently, he was repeatedly noticed at congresses and other events of the UNA-UNSO in Kiev, - Alexander Bastrykin opened new pages of the biography of the Prime Minister of Ukraine.


                    This monster has been on the international wanted list since 2017 by decision of the Yessentuki District Court. And you are telling me now that the Yessentuksky District Court stipulated the innocent, that they had completely lost the shores in their slander of Russia. I believe only the Essentuki District Court, and not you, Russophobes.
              2. Moon
                Moon 20 January 2020 01: 05
                -2
                Quote: Wanderer039
                there, from Ukraine alone, 50000 thousand were killed ...

                write a million. What their busurman is to regret (Suvorov)
                Korchinsky would be shocked by the fact that his 300 people became 50 thousand ...
                He would probably drive a million in the PMR ..
        4. Fitter65
          Fitter65 19 January 2020 06: 06
          +4
          Quote: Rudel
          What can I say about real soldiers.

          And who are the real soldiers? It is not by chance that the descendants of those "brave warriors" whom the German old men and boys from the Volkssturm chased across the Ardennes were not, then their descendants were kicked out of their country by Vietnamese peasants. If it were not for EBN, then the "real soldiers" would have been running around the airport of Pristina, the Russians, we can fly.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Octopus
            Octopus 19 January 2020 08: 36
            -7
            Quote: Fitter65
            Not by chance the descendants of those "brave warriors"

            Yes, they are.
            For the 39th year, the American army has 4 (four) divisions, in which there are 3976 (three thousand nine hundred seventy-six) state officers. It's all.
            In the 44th they hold the largest landing in history, and after it - the French blitzkrieg, comparable in scale and depth of the operation with the Belarusian. In the Ardennes, since you remembered them, Patton, a day after the order, deployed 3A from south to northeast, leading tank divisions through motorized infantry. Ask when this began to turn out, I don’t know, Konev’s.

            In the 33rd year, Zhukov received a division. In the summer of the 40th, he commands the Southern Front, 3 armies, 13 corps. Eisenhower in the 40th commanded the 1st battalion of the 3rd regiment of the 15th regiment, before that 6 years as a handler in the colonial troops. In the winter of 44-45, they exchange with the Wehrmacht for the dead - the same as Zhukov, for the general losses - among the Americans much better.
            Quote: Fitter65
            German old men and boys from Volkssturm

            There was no Volkssturm at all, unfortunately. But there were 8 armies of the Wehrmacht and the SS, of which 2 were armored. After Ardennes, Dietrich and the remnants of the 6TA SS went to Hungary, to Balaton, Mantoifel to Berlin, to GA Wisla, the northern flank of the Zeelow Heights.
            Quote: Fitter65
            If it were not for EBN, then "real soldiers" would have been running around Pristina airport

            If it weren’t for Michael Jackson, not the singer, the Englishman, but also for the boys, judging by his behavior, the Russian soldiers would be spread on concrete, and the rest of the Russians would be cut off rations. It was about 99th time to insert the NATO piston. There was already Clark's order on this topic, which Jackson mentioned refused to comply. The British then appointed him the head of the General Staff. In order of tolerance, apparently.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 19 January 2020 08: 56
              -6
              Quote: Octopus
              Russian soldiers would be spread on concrete, and the rest of the Russians would be cut off rations. It was about 99th time to put in the NATO piston

              On the other hand, a completely mad drunk who got involved in a military conflict with NATO would almost certainly have ended up in Lefortovo the next morning, in the best case for him. It’s not a pity to erect a golden monument to anyone like, and to my taste, for such a development of events for Yevkurov and his dead paratroopers. And General Clark, excuse me, too.
            2. Fitter65
              Fitter65 19 January 2020 11: 54
              +3
              Quote: Octopus
              In the 44th they hold the largest landing in history, and after it - the French blitzkrieg, comparable in scale and depth of the operation with the Belarusian.

              The French Blitzkrieg was in 1940. The fact that the allies were crawling across France and Western Europe can hardly be called a blitzkrieg, especially if you look at the number of troops that opposed them. And to compare this movement with the operation in Belarus is simply ridiculous. Of course you want to look like such a cool warrior of light, but it doesn't work out very well. Even the Germans were so afraid of "warriors of light" that they calmly removed troops from the western front in order to strengthen the troops on the eastern.
              Quote: Octopus
              when this began to work out, I don’t know with Konev.

              Yes, Konev will start almost immediately. After all, it was his troops in January 1945 that began two weeks ahead of schedule to strike at the Germans to help the allies. Somehow in the summer of 1941 the "soldiers of light" did not rush to help the Red Army.
              1. maden.usmanow
                maden.usmanow 19 January 2020 15: 08
                -5
                Somehow in the summer of 1941 the "warriors of light" did not rush to help the Red Army.


                What forces could the Americans help the Red Army in 41? Lend-lease helped, that's enough.
                "Warriors of Light" were not obliged to save the hostile communist regime, after 5 years, after 45, openly supplying the North Koreans, and then the gooks.
              2. Octopus
                Octopus 19 January 2020 18: 16
                -6
                Quote: Fitter65
                The fact that the allies were crawling around France and Western Europe can hardly be called a blitzkrieg

                The allies went from Normandy to the Elbe exactly as much as the Red Army from Belarus.
                From Saint-Lo to Metz 51 days and 530 km in a straight line.
                Quote: Fitter65
                especially if you look at the number of troops that opposed them. And to compare this movement with the operation in Belarus is simply ridiculous. Con

                In France, the Reich has twice as many troops as in Belarus, about 55 divisions. France, not Belarus, is the main defeat of the Reich of the summer of the 44th in terms of the scale of the forces involved and strategic importance.
                Quote: Fitter65
                calmly removed troops from the western front in order to strengthen the troops on the eastern.

                And vice versa. The Germans generally developed the inter-theater maneuver by forces, all of a sudden.
                Quote: Fitter65
                Yes, Konev’s beginning will turn out almost immediately

                Yes, near Vitebsk. Take an interest in his attempts to deploy tanks in the Dresden direction to Bautzen in April 45th. Let me remind you that Konev has been commanding the army-districts-fronts since September 38th.
                Quote: Fitter65
                After all, it was his troops in January 1945 that began two weeks ahead of schedule to strike at the Germans to help the Allies

                On 4 of the day later they started as planned in December. because of weather. The Americans, by the way, really ran in the 42nd with crazy plans to land in France straightforward. Churchill barely stopped them, fortunately including the USSR. They would rake in such a way that they could fly out of the war. This is not to what good allies the Americans are, but to the extent to which Roosevelt and, alas, Marshall were incompetent in military matters. This is even worse than the Red Army since Voroshilov, although the latter is impossible to believe.
                Quote: Fitter65
                Somehow in the summer of 1941 the "warriors of light" did not rush to help the Red Army.

                And why on earth in the summer of the 41st to help their enemies?
            3. perm23
              perm23 20 January 2020 05: 33
              +1
              You yourself understood what you wrote. That is, the Germans defeated by the patton calmly withdraw their troops to us. Well this is for such defeated troops that once retained their combat effectiveness and were able to leave without hindrance. Maybe Patton didn’t break it, but our offensive helped. And about smudge on concrete. there, too, were not whipping boys. Also could smear
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 20 January 2020 08: 36
                -2
                Quote: perm23
                That is, the Germans defeated by a patton calmly withdraw their troops to us

                Yes, the challenge failed. Montgomery again switched to the German side, blocked the American 1A Hodges and did not allow the Germans to be pushed.

                But here the question is not to the Patron, but to Eisenhower. They recruited the commander in chief on the announcement.
                Quote: Octopus
                to what extent Roosevelt and, alas, Marshall were incompetent in military matters.

                maybe our offensive helped

                Can not. Patton released Bastogne and created a threat to the boiler on December 25. Wisło-Oderskaya on January 12, in 3 weeks.
                Quote: perm23
                about smudge on concrete. there, too, were not whipping boys. Also could smear

                There were 200 people with infantry weapons in 15 armored personnel carriers. They had nothing but a greyhound.
  6. Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 19 January 2020 05: 36
    +9
    Smiled.
    Suspended.
    I saw in his reflection in the mirror Kutuzov’s glass eye and Stalin’s extinct tube.
    This is me about my feelings from the article.
    In general, despite all the subjunctive moods, the whole world knows:
    "Russians can only be stopped by Russians!"
    Since the time of Peter and his daughter Elizabeth. And maybe earlier.
    "Russian skating rink" - this idiom was born in the heads of Europeans around that time ...
    However, we stop ourselves. Regularly.
    From century to century.
    And sometimes we not only stop, but also destroy, to the delight of the damned European dwarves.
    It's time to stop hating each other. Hug a neighbor, a colleague, a passerby.
    Then we will bathe in the English Channel and wash our boots in the Indian Ocean and return Alaska!
    1. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 19 January 2020 07: 53
      -4
      and return Alaska!


      Szczyrlitz ..... Do you want to introduce a salary of $ 200 there too? When UTB is understood, the people of Alaska will kick you across several oceans ... laughing
      1. Wanderer039
        Wanderer039 19 January 2020 07: 59
        -3
        In Alaska, prices are such that they can buy as much meat for their current salaries as you can buy for 18000 rubles in the Russian Federation ... Do not forget that in the Russian Federation they are sold in kg, and in the USA in founds, this is 406 grams. ..
      2. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert 19 January 2020 08: 06
        +3
        Do you want to introduce a salary of $ 200 there?

        Zhenya!
        Salaries in Anchorage and Nome will receive in rubles!
        And we will give the green pieces lovely to your heart to Bulgarian little brothers!
        They sleep and see signs with dead American presidents ... winked
        1. Keyser soze
          Keyser soze 19 January 2020 08: 11
          -2
          Salaries in Anchorage and Nome will receive in rubles!


          Dear Paul .... you correctly guessed the dreams of Amers - in rubles, in rubles ... and to the shipyard, build yachts for your oligarchy ....laughing

          And we will give the green pieces lovely to your heart to Bulgarian little brothers!


          You will not believe it, but I have not seen dollars for 20 years .... laughing
          And the national currency against the euro has not changed since 1998.
  7. antivirus
    antivirus 19 January 2020 05: 47
    +1
    article for marshals
    More than 10 years ago, Kvachkov, from prison, gave the same analysis.
    the number of armor-piercing does not count when there is little solid oil for railway cars and bags for buckwheat (not to mention buckwheat itself)
    how about without toilet paper? a steamer?
    number of views and time - the author received
  8. A5V
    A5V 19 January 2020 06: 01
    +7
    Why is this "comparison"?

    Against whom does Europe need to contain huge armed forces? Against Russia? It's funny, yes. Against the PRC? So it is located almost on the opposite side of the globe, where the Americans will have to rely on completely different allies.

    Well, there is now no global confrontation in the world that was at the beginning of the last century or during the Cold War. And world war is a fantasy, possible only on the Internet in such "patriotic" articles. Therefore, there is simply no need to have a large army and spend money on it, especially when there is an ally with the strongest armed forces in the world. It is better to spend this money on something else, on social services, for example. Which is exactly what they do. At the same time, they have a few armies to participate in local conflicts. Well, in terms of aviation and navy in France, Britain, Spain or Italy, everything is quite good.

    By the way, during the same ХV the countries of Western Europe had (for the most part) more numerous armies than now. Then it was really necessary. Well, after its end, the global confrontation ended and they began to decline rapidly. The United States is also concerned.

    Yes, we can do without a fleet, simply because all participants have nothing to brag about.

    Yeah, especially the French or the British, who recently commissioned a second aircraft carrier.
  9. Lester7777
    Lester7777 19 January 2020 06: 06
    +10
    If I am not mistaken, these games were played by Tom Clancy. By the way, they forgot about Turkey.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 19 January 2020 06: 48
      +14
      Oh. Read. Abused by GeBney, the Icelandic Valkyrie, three SAS men, two marins and an officer meteorologist spent hours holding back the attack of the airborne platoon that passed Afghanistan, and even with mortar support)).
      Survived ... taram ... pregnant Valkyrie and meteorologist! laughing
      1. Lester7777
        Lester7777 19 January 2020 06: 56
        +4
        As far as I remember, the most serious threat to the airborne division is six schoolchildren. I remember "Red Dawn", 1984.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 19 January 2020 07: 07
          +3
          For the Airborne Forces and the Cubans)). In a remake, the United States was occupied by the country of Juche, with the support of Russian special forces crying
  10. Van 16
    Van 16 19 January 2020 06: 17
    +2
    It is clear that all this is hypothetical reasoning, but I liked the article, it was written well, easily and with a sense of humor.
  11. apro
    apro 19 January 2020 06: 27
    +7
    Wow .... with a sword bare ....
    Yes, we ... wait ... everyone ... oooo ... like
    Not funny ... bullshit.
    I didn’t understand what the author wanted to say. How is everything bad. And we don’t care? War is the continuation of politics by other means. There is one question that remains: what kind of politician does Russia have? I think this is the biggest Russian secret ...
    1. Doctor Evil
      Doctor Evil 19 January 2020 22: 25
      0
      Quote: apro
      Wow .... with a sword bare ....
      Yes, we ... wait ... everyone ... oooo ... like
      Not funny ... bullshit.
      I didn’t understand what the author wanted to say. How is everything bad. And we don’t care? War is the continuation of politics by other means. There is one question that remains: what kind of politician does Russia have? I think this is the biggest Russian secret ...

      Perhaps the author was bitten by Shpakovsky, who also had an article on the topic "Galloping across Europe in a tank."
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 19 January 2020 06: 34
    +9
    . The result is a funny situation: the European armies are nothing of themselves, with rare exceptions

    What was that?
    Serious such an analysis / forecast?
    Ah, I understand! It was a Joke!
    HA, HA, HA drinks
  13. u4iy
    u4iy 19 January 2020 06: 40
    +6
    We would have yes it is yes like this on this .....
    We will throw our hats!)))))
    1. Moon
      Moon 20 January 2020 01: 08
      -1
      Quote: u4iy
      We would have yes it is yes like this on this .....
      We will throw our hats!)))))

      I still remember RA2.
      If the prisms behind the base do not teleport, then with mammoths we will erase them into powder ...
  14. atalef
    atalef 19 January 2020 06: 51
    +5
    Then, in general, the question arises, and why the heck to invest such dibs? There’s no one to fight with.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 19 January 2020 07: 09
      +3
      USA, PRC, terror.
      1. atalef
        atalef 19 January 2020 08: 09
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        USA, PRC, terror.

        But Europe has no enemies.
        Neither Terror nor China.
        Lucky them.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 19 January 2020 08: 12
          +4
          China is far from them, and they will also deal with terrorism with police units, as entire regions where terror can break out en masse, such as the Caucasus, they do not have - all sorts of Belfast and Basques do not count.
      2. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 19 January 2020 11: 03
        0
        enough of the Strategic Missile Forces against the United States and China, we have the Rosguard against terrorists .. In addition, if we remove the Strategic Missile Forces, I’m afraid we will not be able to cope with any of the others in the current situation. Some have more money and weapons, while others have stupid personnel, but there are also enough weapons and money. Therefore, by the way, I also thought, and with whom will we fight? Against whom do non-nuclear forces swing? new weapons are definitely needed, but an army of 1 million (half of which are actually combat units at best are the remaining rear units / headquarters, and the Strategic Rocket Forces are 50 thousand people) against whom? I haven’t come up with it yet .. But the idea of ​​taking over territories suggests itself otherwise I don’t understand why ..
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 19 January 2020 11: 05
          +5
          The fact is that no one wants to bring the situation to the use of nuclear weapons. Therefore, the Chinese and the States are pumping conventional muscles))
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 19 January 2020 11: 10
            +1
            Well, the stripes are trying to control the whole world, I think Southeast Asia, the goals are clear) and we? I just can’t find an answer for myself .. An option about neighbors begs) we can and are afraid of this laughing
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 19 January 2020 11: 12
              +2
              Quite possible ))
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 20 January 2020 16: 57
      0
      Quote: atalef
      Then, in general, the question arises, why the heck do such grandmas invest?

      Good Jewish question. laughing
  15. samarin1969
    samarin1969 19 January 2020 06: 52
    +2
    The analysis is correct. Politics is such a thing that the layouts sometimes change very quickly. Now missiles will fall on Belgrade, sparkling with evening lights, then suddenly an ally in the anti-Iraqi coalition will begin to dismember. Well, but the fact that in Donbass people speaking the same language for the camera will make up quite a front for themselves - very few people assumed. Between the 1st and 2nd Balkans, almost no time has passed - and the Bulgarians quite enthusiastically grappled with their former allies ... What will "burn" in Europe next? ... Perhaps "European" Turkey.

    ps There is also a fleet with its own infantry, aircraft, cruise missiles, etc.
  16. Kuroneko
    Kuroneko 19 January 2020 06: 56
    +3
    Poland. 120 thousand people. Tanks: 105 Leopard 2A5, 142 Leopard 2A4. 233 pieces of RT-91, 500 T-72M. Almost a thousand tanks. 1200 infantry fighting vehicles, 700 armored personnel carriers. Aviation: 36 F-16, 26 MiG-29. Soviet helicopters, Soviet air defense. S-125, "Circle". But there is.

    Crabs forgot. And still something for the little things.
    Just correcting.
  17. parusnik
    parusnik 19 January 2020 07: 14
    +6
    Thank you, smiled in the morning .... I had to add Spain, with the Portuguese ... smile
  18. Avior
    Avior 19 January 2020 07: 14
    +8
    Analysis so-so
    On the one hand firs with a bang - patriotic wounds smile
    On the other hand, the author seems to know about the existence of NATO, but does not take it into account, although it is obvious that with such a large-scale offensive, they will forget everything between themselves, because no one knows where the attackers will stop, and France or Germany will not sit and wait until we get to its borders.
    But somehow together with NATO, even without the non-European troops of the States, the author does not consider it all as pieces, not forgetting to discard what he does not like, but seems to have forgotten about Turkey at all.
    As well as omitting many other nuances, such as tactical nuclear bombs that were delivered to Europe strictly for the scenario described by the author, as well as French and English nuclear charges, also for this particular case, it is not clear what the author’s belief is based on, that they are not apply, well, apply strictly on the advancing troops in the immediate rear in the border area, then what- start a global nuclear war for the right to wash the berets in the English Channel? or NATO’s developed system of measures to undermine bridges and other communications just under the described scenario and so on, which significantly slows down the pace of the attack until the United States helps to plant aid, primarily aviation, especially since the object will have to be left in place with the troops there will be only military.
    Of course, NATO and the States relaxed after the collapse of the USSR, but such a scenario will not be able to be realized right tomorrow morning, anyway, it takes time to prepare and you won’t hide it, so no one will notice it will have time and it will intensify, including, by the way the transfer of US troops to Europe during the threatened period.
    For example, the apparent discrepancy in the number of armored vehicles in Germany with the available army suggests the mobilization, there is probably storage of equipment at the sites, and some of the weapons and troops from the United States will be delivered even after the outbreak of war.
    But most importantly, why is Russia doing this, especially considering that China will clearly be against it, doesn’t it need it?
    hi
    1. Moon
      Moon 20 January 2020 01: 11
      -2
      Quote: Avior
      anyway, you need time to prepare and you can’t hide it

      the transfer of "Roman's million troops" will be visible on all information channels ...
      Of course, everyone will think that this is a fake and relax the rolls.
      They’re not thinking about burghers ...
  19. Flawless
    Flawless 19 January 2020 07: 39
    +1
    Quote: Rudel
    Before the occupation of Crimea, one could still argue about the lack of aggression, but now your training manual somehow does not sound at all, sorry.
    . About the occupation it is certainly strong! Fantasy in the best traditions of Hollywood and Bollywood together. Only Crimea didn’t even have to be occupied somehow he surrendered himself and even got the pleasure of getting rid of fascism and other Bendery dishonesty, and even restoring the ifrostructure after the Ukrainian occupation. However, he was never used to it; he was always Russian, and, thank God, they corrected this misunderstanding with ukroopupacii. So Ukraine can only envy it Russia will not accept, it is too expensive to restore after the looting of the Americans and other Bendery henchmen. And why do we need these half-poised mestizo half-Poles. Too arrogant they borrowed three billion and do not give it back, and with gas transit in general is tinny, Gazprom is tired of suing them because of their moronic lotions. Such taking for free is unnecessary and unnecessary with money! And why do we need this impoverished province where the locals even squandered their Ukrainian land.
  20. LeonidL
    LeonidL 19 January 2020 07: 42
    0
    "After all, these are completely different things: on the one hand, to establish a “democratic order” in Iran or Libya, on the other hand, to go on a clinch with the Russians. "- Exact conclusion!
    1. destiny20
      destiny20 19 January 2020 10: 42
      -5
      And why? because the same tactics will be with your army and fight
      Ironing from the air, shot from a long distance. Just first, they will seriously engage in air defense forces, just in case
      But to think that this approach does not work with the army of the Russian Federation is naive!
      1. LeonidL
        LeonidL 20 January 2020 03: 28
        0
        Unlike you, my dear, the command of the US Army, first of all, the KNS, as well as the political leadership - the President and his Adviser, are sane and very reasonable people, therefore they have avoided the clinch in every possible way, will and will avoid it. So do not hope - for your unseen Absurdistan, none of the serious players will fit in, and the frivolous will only breathe air, briefly spoiling its consistency.
  21. Amateur
    Amateur 19 January 2020 07: 44
    -5
    The US Army, which really can, is not taken. It is necessary to speak about it especially, the Yankees are quite serious guys

    If we accept the postulate of the inapplicability of nuclear weapons, then mattresses in Europe will surrender before the French. At best, they will run to the Island.
    But the Swiss are better not to touch. They won’t go beyond the borders of their country, and inside the country the whole population, from small to large, will partisan and defend themselves until the last soldier - either his own or someone else’s. Even the possessed adik did not contact them.
    And the Germans are likely to declare neutrality, but they will quietly slaughter the Americans at night. At the everyday level, they do not like them "with terrible force"
    1. LeonidL
      LeonidL 20 January 2020 03: 31
      0
      Victor, you dearest try yourself in the role of authors of combat fantasy alternative history! Ches a word, it will turn out, you are a sort of storyteller!
  22. Gardamir
    Gardamir 19 January 2020 07: 56
    +7
    So the author plus a strategy for an interesting game. Moreover, in the late 70s in the 10th grade, I also wrote the same story. There, the Soviet Union rebuffed the invading NATO aggressors.
    But seriously. Who will spend a day in a frosty trench? Yes, already at the Ukrainian stage, not everything is going smoothly. Putin could peacefully join in 2014 did not want to. And which of them wants the Russian army to wash the berets, where are their accounts, houses, children? The results of 1991 say it’s not necessary to shoot, where you can buy ...
    1. LeonidL
      LeonidL 20 January 2020 03: 55
      0
      In 2014, Putin really could calmly calm Ukraine down, prevent it from turning into Absurdistan, but ... Firstly, for this Yanukovych was needed as a legitimate president, and not a potsik who fooled in his pants, weakened from the mere thought of losing what was stolen lane's hard work (in western banks). Secondly, in 2014, Putin still believed in some "international laws" and other nonsense, as a result the Donbass turned into a bargaining chip. And, most importantly, thirdly, Putin quite clearly and legally (under the same international laws - a referendum, etc.) annexed Crimea to Russia, fulfilling the long-term dream of the Crimeans tired of Ukrainian idiocy. But, having entered Ukraine with the declared goal of "pacifying the Natsiks and putting things in order at the request of the legitimate President," Putin would have to abandon his dream of Crimea, because it is somehow not very decent to establish constitutional order in a foreign country with one hand at the request of its President, and with the other ... even at the request of the population of a part of the country to annex it? Somehow it does not add up ... I think that after weighing everything, Putin exchanged Crimea for Donbass, Odessa, Kharkiv, etc. (In my opinion, not very smart). By such an exchange and absolutely legitimate within the framework of the old norms of international law (Referendum), a clever (no quotes!) Putin thought to avoid too painful consequences from Western "partners". Failed! But even here Putin turned defeat into victory - he showed how scary it is for Russia to trust the principle "we will sell everything to Russia, but let Russia not produce anything at home" - as a result, import substitution began and, God forbid, will go successfully. And fourthly, the creation of the LPR / DPR put an end to the entry of Ukraine into NATO and the EU, and the "association" clearly showed the population the failure of this project for the country's economy - the industry was completely ruined, science - finally, education and the agricultural sector are on the way, commodity exchange with the EU purely colonial, handouts and "tranches" were first plundered, and then, to the surprise of the plebs, not for nothing but loans! The government completely discredited itself, which was shown by the failure of Petrushka in the elections. But the new government cannot really do anything - she herself admitted this through the mouth of the Premier. And nothing can be done at all - everything was laid down when this strange country was created. Its foundation is based on the principles developed back in the 20-30-40 years of the OUN. Read their papers! This is "conciliarity" "unitarity" "united mova" "one nation of yak above all else" - these are all the thoughts of the shtetl sages of Western Ukraine during the Polish rule. But now Ukraine is glued together from parts of Russia, Poland, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia through the efforts of the communists. It is a country with different peoples and nations, different languages, mentality and religions. What kind of a single nation is there? What kind of unitarity? What is the single MOV? What collegiality? There was a way out that allowed to save the country (by the way, Biden also advised him) - federalization! But the stubborn nationalists Svidomye ... we have what we have.
  23. Hermit21
    Hermit21 19 January 2020 08: 00
    0
    Where did the Germans get 530 tanks? They should have 250-300 in combat units, including training. The French also have around 250
  24. The comment was deleted.
    1. Wanderer039
      Wanderer039 19 January 2020 08: 32
      +1
      Of course, there will not be an easy walk, but it could well be ... 280000 army + 340000 Russian guard + 170000 explosives + 45000 airborne troops + 35000 marines + reservists 2572500, in active reserve ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 19 January 2020 11: 44
          +1
          Not all VV Rosguard ... Not all VV cops, there is quite combat-ready special forces that are better than any elite army motorized infantry combat unit ... They have long contract armies and the mobilization reserve of the first category is not great there .. The reserves of the first category are good fighters ..
          1. Korax71
            Korax71 19 January 2020 17: 57
            +2
            But the experts suddenly had their own calculations, artillery? They, of course, are tough guys, but they fight with tanks with their bare hands. They have a lot of different tasks.
            1. Sapsan136
              Sapsan136 19 January 2020 19: 09
              +1
              Read about the tasks that the Voronezh riot police carried out in Chechnya ... Although, I’ll tell you so ... The tasks of an elite motorized rifle unit, which operated with the support of tanks ... Other units, including other units, also performed the same tasks. our special-purpose detachment Sapsan, although, officially, this is the FSIN special forces and part is generally far from the war
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Korax71
                Korax71 19 January 2020 22: 55
                +2
                Please don’t tell me about who and what tasks performed in Chechnya, because I myself can tell about what tasks the Marine Corps performed there. Below "Rudolph" answered you more than succinctly hi
                1. Sapsan136
                  Sapsan136 20 January 2020 11: 10
                  +2
                  I don’t see anything clever in what Rudolph replied ... He believes that explosives can only drive drunks when they give him examples of the opposite, he writes something inaudible ... And here’s a microscope, if it’s always better to destroy enemy’s fortified missiles -bomb strikes, or (and) the use of special forces assault groups, and not the use of conscript troops ... or conventional, albeit regular infantry ... Our snipers will give a significant head start to any infantryman ... and the special forces’s weapons are not army ... there is something better ... and tanks and artillery are always given for reinforcement ... Light armored vehicles, as a rule, have their own, full-time, although not always fully equipped, alas ...
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 20 January 2020 10: 23
          +2
          No, the number of airborne forces is not taken into account, this is a separate type of troops. Therefore, 280 thousand. Ground forces is the number without airborne.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 20 January 2020 11: 32
            +1
            You are, indeed, right that the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation do not include all of the ground troops. The Airborne Forces are a separate branch of the army, in other countries they are considered part of the SV. In addition, motorized rifle brigades and some missile and artillery brigades, regiments, divisions of the Northern Fleet, and some of the coastal defense units of other fleets, in fact, are ground forces, but belong to the Navy.
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 20 January 2020 10: 26
        +1
        The Rogvardia is the former explosives with the addition of riot police, special forces, and private security.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 20 January 2020 11: 14
          +1
          You at least open Wikipedia, there the number of BB and Rosguard is indicated separately ... and read what the difference is ...
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 20 January 2020 11: 20
            +1
            The structure of the Federal Service of the National Guard Troops of the Russian Federation includes [5] [7]:

            Internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia;
            Special Forces Center for Rapid Response Forces and Aviation, as well as aviation units (from the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs);
            Special quick response units (from territorial bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia);
            Mobile special forces (from the territorial bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia);
            Management bodies and units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia engaged in activities in the field of private security (from the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia);
            Management bodies and divisions of the Office for the Organization of Licensing and Permitting Work (ULRR) of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia [8], which exercise federal state control over the circulation of arms in the field of private security activities (from the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia).
            The Federal State Unitary Enterprise “Protection” of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation (FSUE “Protection” of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia) was transferred from the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia as a subordinate organization to the Federal Service of the National Guard Troops of the Russian Federation [5].
            This is from Wikipedia. I thought that everyone had long known that the Russian Guard was formed on the basis of explosives.
            PS At 400 meters from me there is a separate battalion of the Russian Guard, which was previously a separate battalion of the BB, and even earlier the training regiment of the BB.
            1. Sapsan136
              Sapsan136 20 January 2020 11: 25
              +1
              So what? And there are traffic police and others ... this is BB ...
              1. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 20 January 2020 18: 27
                0
                The traffic police has never been part of the BB.
                1. Sapsan136
                  Sapsan136 20 January 2020 20: 08
                  +1
                  The traffic police are part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, so this and other armed formations that are not part of the armed forces, these are, in fact, explosives ... After all, we are counting the number of bayonets that the Russian Federation can set ..... and the traffic police are also bayonets ... capable of serving as garrisons ...
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 19 January 2020 08: 35
      +5
      Quote: rudolff
      Get stuck in the same Eastern Europe and no further.

      Maximum on the borders of the Warsaw Pact countries. And that is unlikely. In the current conditions, this adventure will resemble Tukhachevsky’s raid in Poland.
    3. kuz363
      kuz363 19 January 2020 08: 36
      +6
      The author of the article writes about the number of 1 million Russian army. But it is unlikely that these are all combat-ready units. There will be a bunch of staff. quartermakers, lawyers, doctors, general adjutants ... And the figure will be quite considerable.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 20 January 2020 10: 30
        0
        So when we talk about the number of European armies, the same can be said about them.
  25. svp67
    svp67 19 January 2020 08: 28
    +5
    What is this apocalyptic scenario? With all due respect to the Russian Army, but it will not reach the English Channel, now it simply WILL NOT. The author forgot to point out a couple of, well, such, not at all significant points, this is that the same tanks are unevenly "smeared" throughout the territory and that to bring them up, you need to spend a little less time than the Americans on the transfer of their first echelons. Moreover, they will concentrate them on the coast, and we will stretch them throughout Europe, and at the time of their meeting, NATO will obviously have an advantage. Further, as we all think tanks, planes, guns, but they forget that all this must be provided with the same engineering equipment, and with it we now, let's say, not very well. The main mass, of what there is, has the stigma "made in the USSR" and you yourself understand that her condition is already "pre-infarction", but the technology with the stigma "made in Russia" is very little offensive. So our tank columns will not be able to withstand the required rate of advance, every river and canal will be overcome with great difficulty.
    Of course not, if we get involved against separately Ukraine or Ukraine, second-hand Georgia, Poland and the Baltic states, then the chance of defeating them is very great, but now to reach the English Channel without using tactical nuclear weapons and "rinse the trucks" there, no, this is a fantasy ...
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Nimnul
    Nimnul 19 January 2020 08: 51
    +7
    The article is sustained in a hap-handed tone. There will be no easy walk. We must not forget about modern intelligence and excellent means of communication and communication of the enemy. No secret maneuvers can be carried out. And also do not forget that Ukraine still has a rather serious air defense (albeit a Soviet legacy), which simply will not allow our aviation to cover motorized riflemen with a parade march ... NATO aviation is quite at a decent level and can set the heat. Poles are very motivated. It is in the eastern part of Europe that you can get seriously stuck for a long time. That is why smart Europeans are strengthening the eastern borders and conducting corresponding exercises. Do you think that the French and Germans will calmly watch our advance? They will direct all their military might to distant approaches in order to shackle the "Russian bear" by any means. It is another matter that after the appearance of the first coffins with NATO servicemen, the overweight and overweight "old Europe" will be seized by real panic and hysteria. It is yes
  28. Unknown
    Unknown 19 January 2020 08: 54
    +5
    the author writes good articles, but this one looks like a not-so-good joke. we’ll roll them over, crush them, and in general they don’t understand anything in military affairs, but we wow ... how ... we will give, etc. high conceit will always destroy us. here always be RI or the USSR, we underestimated the likely enemy. and who is there, these narrow-eyed Japs, we will smash the snot. We have overbought, the result is known to everyone. In the PMV, and there who is the German sausage and the unfinished Austrian, we will kick with our feet. Well, the result is also known. in the USSR, too, both Poles and Finns, and even again, despite the sad experience of the WWII, the Germans wanted to throw their hats on, what happened? long and hard years of war. Well then, I understand that it was not necessary for the people to relax, the people should be confident in their army. then there was a shock from defeats, and a stubborn desire to win, no matter what. therefore comrade Stalin said, it’s better to overestimate the enemy than to underestimate. and current V.S. RUSSIA, very far from perfect, and not at all like S.A. so that the result can be very disastrous.
    1. Nimnul
      Nimnul 19 January 2020 09: 01
      +4
      Absolutely right. Before going to the English Channel, it would not hurt to check all the NS, otherwise it may turn out to be embarrassing ... laughing
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 19 January 2020 18: 51
        +1
        Instead of delusional plans for a campaign on the English Channel, it is better to think about how to restrain the waves of migration from different directions to poorly populated Russia.
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. U-58
    U-58 19 January 2020 09: 15
    +8
    The author drew an arithmetic problem, but not a military-political one.
    Falling (that is, we) suffers greater losses.
    In the European armies there are quite their own and their Rokossovsky and captains of Gastello and Sergeants Pavlov and ordinary Sailors.
    Again the rear.
    Today in Europe they are not waiting for us.
    There is no one to free.
    Taking Berlin, what will we have in Warsaw and the surrounding area? Army of Craiova?
    We are not China and our economy is not on a military track, labor resources are weak, mobilization reserve to hell.
    So, having squeezed the European spring in some way, we get a rebound at the turn of the line exactly along the lines of the countries of the former people's democracy.
    What about the ally? Will we have allies?
    And in those and the states, American and Australian, and Canada with New Zealand.
    And Turkey and Pakistan who won’t stop biting off the cake.
    Brazil with Argentina, Japan with South Korea and Taiwan ....
    In the described situation, everyone will get involved. And not for us.
    It is not necessary to rattle out armor, but to develop the economy.
    Then everything will fall into our arms in an absolutely peaceful way.
  31. Boris55
    Boris55 19 January 2020 09: 45
    +4
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    Bertsa in the English Channel, or Who will stop us?

    Roman, and we, after all your articles about the insignificance of our army, will decide on this? laughing
    And what have we forgotten there and why we don’t have such a thing that we can take from them by force?

    War is the conquest of territories, natural and human resources:
    - territories in bulk;
    - natural resources as much as 20% of global;
    - human resources like blue and pink - the spirit is not needed.
    So there are no prerequisites for attacking Europe from the word.
    Then why these fantasies pouring balm into the mill of their propaganda?
  32. parusnik
    parusnik 19 January 2020 10: 03
    +3
    Roman, you don’t joke like that anymore ... See what is being done in the comments ... smile
  33. destiny20
    destiny20 19 January 2020 10: 25
    -2
    Article on the topic "Do the Russians want wars"
    Novel! You write interesting articles, why are you dishonoring yourself like that? well, right ... also with this "analysis"? If we really write something like that, then at least with minimal analytics and not this ...
    With one stroke of the pen, Ukraine and Belarus were excluded, they say not competitors at all. in the same stroke multiplied by zero the forces of Germany, France, Poland
    The theme of Switzerland is generally a separate topic. And after all, even in VO there were articles about them, you are Roman, you should be aware of that. This I still hold back about their neutrality and banks
    PS
    bad that the cons removed
  34. nm76
    nm76 19 January 2020 10: 29
    0
    At the tip of a knife, perhaps we will triumph and break into the center of Europe, but what about the material and technical support of all this?
    During the Second World War, it took years to transfer the economy, that of another industrial country, to the military track.
    This adventure is akin to the fact that now, let’s say the Turks will block the straits and the end of our operation in Syria.
  35. Onotollah
    Onotollah 19 January 2020 10: 36
    +3
    The most important question - What demon do we need to restore order in a strange house, and even without an invitation?
    If you consider that only the payroll composition of the armies listed in the list will be under a million. Excluding mobility reserve. And in case of war it will be easy 2-2,5 million. And you should not forget about the partisan war. Tolerance is one thing, and it’s another when tanks come to visit you. What troop group will be needed to defeat the enemy on its territory during offensive operations? Millions of 7-8? Who will contain it? And to keep the occupied territories and provide the population with everything necessary, how many resources are needed? Or what will be the fate of all those captured? Author, what do you say? Are you ready to personally lead punitive raids against, for example, Finnish / German / French partisans in their territory?
  36. L-39NG
    L-39NG 19 January 2020 10: 43
    -2
    Small clarification in the Czech Republic.
    From the T-72, only the appearance remained. On modernization, the T-72M4 CZ with new ammunition, engine, security and electronics was obtained.
    Soon we begin to work together with the Germans and the French on a new tank.
    Artillery - the Soviet one no longer has anything, only its own, maybe something from the trunks we will buy from the Finno-Swedes. There are no rocket launchers at all.
    Air defense is provided while RBS-70NG We will take new systems instead of the old people 2K12 M2 KUB and 9K35 Strela-10M. Offers have already been received from four manufacturers.
    VET there are a few Babies and Competitions from the Soviet backlogs and where without RPG-7, the rest is Carl Gustav, FGM-148 Javelin, Spike-LR and its old RPG-75
    The Air Force does not complain about Gripeny, and new ones with new software, a new display are generally a miracle
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. shubin
    shubin 19 January 2020 10: 48
    -1
    Yes Yes! The enemy, as always, is deaf, blind, and besides, stupid and cowardly, and the Red Army is all stronger.
    Only in practice, for some reason, they will either burn Moscow or destroy Stalingrad.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 20 January 2020 17: 00
      0
      Quote: shubin
      then they will burn Moscow

      And what does the Red Army have to do with it? No, I certainly understand that in Russia from time immemorial all evil from komunyak ..
    2. Pissarro
      Pissarro 23 January 2020 04: 26
      0
      Paris will be taken, then Berlin)
      Why did not continue that)
  39. dgonni
    dgonni 19 January 2020 10: 50
    -1
    An article from the same opera as with one parachute landing regiment to take Grozny! If the author is not in the know, then Nato has a single command! And if you look even at the figures given by the author, then the above countries have at least a twofold advantage in aviation. And ento is a type of weapon that is very quickly transferred to the desired point. The situation is the same for helicopters. In air defense, too, was not sour.
    Ukraine is also discounted incorrectly. The fact that aviation is not used is only due to the Minsk agreements. Well, all of a sudden.
    But the dada in the form of guerrilla warfare is clearly not a gift. With an alliance until the 56th year, partisans. And some until the 60s. And atl, despite the fact that there was a union and the mass eviction of strongly sympathetic whole villages to the east.
  40. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 19 January 2020 10: 54
    +2
    Aator smokes ... Where does the RF GU look for drugs?
  41. GenNick
    GenNick 19 January 2020 11: 00
    -1
    Quote: Onotolle
    The most important question - What demon do we need to restore order in a strange house, and even without an invitation?
    If you consider that only the payroll composition of the armies listed in the list will be under a million. Excluding mobility reserve. And in case of war it will be easy 2-2,5 million. And you should not forget about the partisan war. Tolerance is one thing, and it’s another when tanks come to visit you. What troop group will be needed to defeat the enemy on its territory during offensive operations? Millions of 7-8? Who will contain it? And to keep the occupied territories and provide the population with everything necessary, how many resources are needed? Or what will be the fate of all those captured? Author, what do you say? Are you ready to personally lead punitive raids against, for example, Finnish / German / French partisans in their territory?

    Of course I agree with you, but I am very interested in the traditions of the French partisan movement ...
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 19 January 2020 12: 35
      -7
      You still need to get to France, first you need to ask about the traditions of the partisan movement in Poland.
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 20 January 2020 17: 04
        +1
        Quote: Semurg
        You still need to get to France, first you need to ask about the traditions of the partisan movement in Poland.

        Semurg with us to the English Channel for the company do not want? And then Europe has not seen a horde of Turks for a long time. laughing
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 20 January 2020 20: 22
          -4
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Quote: Semurg
          You still need to get to France, first you need to ask about the traditions of the partisan movement in Poland.

          Semurg with us to the English Channel for the company do not want? And then Europe has not seen a horde of Turks for a long time. laughing

          To Europe only by tourists or business affairs, tea is not in the 13th century, but in the yard. I like the slogan never more than we can repeat it.
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 20 January 2020 22: 16
            +2
            Ugh. And these are the descendants of Genghis Khan, Atilla and other Timurs? Yeah, the nomad pulverized, but the pulp chopped. laughing
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 21 January 2020 08: 01
              -4
              Ugh, 21st century in the yard, the wild Neanderthal needs to be squeezed out of himself however. And then, after all, incarnate adventures on the fifth point not the small descendants of Nevsky and Kalita. hi
              1. Semurg
                Semurg 21 January 2020 08: 32
                -4
                By the way, Zakharchenko from the DNI threatened to wash the boots in the English Channel, just like a grease that he wanted to dip his boots into the Indian Ocean.
  42. AleBors
    AleBors 19 January 2020 11: 13
    +2
    An interesting review in terms of "what if suddenly ..." But why do we need ankle boots in the English Channel Wash?
  43. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  44. Tycoon
    Tycoon 19 January 2020 11: 53
    -8
    Great Russia !!!!! He can’t boast of anything except the army ...... There is no economy, no culture, no sport, nature is almost killed, there is no health care - but berets in the English Channel are crazy people ....
    1. SNEAKY
      SNEAKY 19 January 2020 12: 53
      -1
      laughing That's just for hamsters like you and this lightweight trolling from Roman’s side. It’s smiled. It’s not analytics, where you can seriously drag out the CSTO ... well, okay. To see where you live there are no problems and people don’t they know the words of such a thing. But in VO, you are throwing feces at Russia, having tried all the blessings of the world. It's such a rich country, and people live so poorly ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Maj
        Maj 19 January 2020 14: 14
        0
        Quote: GB-M
        Doesn’t it mean to rob Russia?

        And who is robbing?
        Do you have any facts? Why don't you write to Sledka, then?
        Or just whining out of habit?
        Quote: GB-M
        We will come to you, for our money, and ask, having put Kalash in the forehead ..

        It smacks of criminality in general. Even, I would say, it stinks a lot.
        Quote: GB-M
        Our fathers and great-grandfathers are watching us ..

        Partners? Or instigators?
  45. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 19 January 2020 11: 56
    +1
    I have one single question for the author. Why did he write this? To the eyes of 17 and 18 year old boys lit up?
    1. Moon
      Moon 20 January 2020 01: 16
      -2
      Quote: Chaldon48
      Why did he write this? To the eyes of 17 and 18 year old boys lit up?

      as Sergey Tsensky wrote (Khrulev, his thoughts before the assault on the Balaclava)
      -What for? To put a couple of hundred guys?
      (in our article, this is a couple of million guys)
  46. GenNick
    GenNick 19 January 2020 12: 10
    0
    Quote: AleBors
    An interesting review in terms of "what if suddenly ..." But why do we need ankle boots in the English Channel Wash?

    The Man-Steamer must go down the English Channel ...
  47. Igor Pa
    Igor Pa 19 January 2020 12: 13
    -2
    A jerk in 2 days to the lamb is possible if you do not spare either your own or others. But it’s like handehokh or we’ll shoot, and this time! And there, the mattresses will come up. So this is all fantastic. And most importantly, what about the Swiss bank accounts !? And the children in Rome!?
  48. Operator
    Operator 19 January 2020 12: 39
    -2
    The question is simple - why don't we occupy the half-billion "Afghanistan" with the use of conventional weapons?

    Isn’t it easier to free him with the use of WMD (what are the claim there by sadomasochists)?
  49. iouris
    iouris 19 January 2020 12: 48
    +1
    Well, ankle boots on the banks of the Channel (not in the English Channel), then what? That would be interesting. But the author does not dare to think. Thus, the EU can continue to calmly spend no more than 2% on "defense". Even less is possible. But the money will not go to the "social sphere".
  50. Doctor
    Doctor 19 January 2020 13: 28
    +3
    By and large, it is necessary to consider such a moment as the willingness to arrange such a ... Red Alert. Observed in our country allows us to conclude that we can do this without very much straining.


    We can. And then our army will crawl through the bars, hookah and nightclubs of Berlin, Rome and Paris. For no one wants after Moulin Rouge to return to Saransk and Kogalym. And without the Russian army, the end. laughing laughing
    1. Maj
      Maj 19 January 2020 14: 07
      -1
      Quote: Arzt
      We can. And then our army will crawl through the bars, hookah and nightclubs of Berlin, Rome and Paris.

      How in 1941?
      Quote: Arzt
      And without the Russian army, the end.

      Russia (and any country) ends without an economy. And without an army, many countries live and feel good.
      Russia needs a very small, very compact army. Big she simply can not afford.
      And to fight, in the presence of nuclear weapons, there is no one with a large army.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 19 January 2020 14: 19
        +1
        Russia (and any country) ends without an economy. And without an army, many countries live and feel good.
        Russia needs a very small, very compact army. Big she simply can not afford.
        And to fight, in the presence of nuclear weapons, there is no one with a large army.


        Plusanul. If in essence, then in my opinion the Germans decided to follow the Scandinavian path of development. And the thing is not even that they were taught by 2 lost wars, but simply, under current conditions, this is the most pragmatic way. The main factor of destabilization has disappeared - no one else seeks to build communism in Europe.