Military Review

"Ahzarit." Israeli armored personnel carrier from soviet tanks

115

Combat buses. The idea of ​​creating an armored personnel carrier based on tank not new. The first such machines were created during the Second World War. Great Britain and Canada created improvised armored personnel carriers using Sexton self-propelled guns, Ram and Sherman tanks as chassis. In the 1980s, the Israeli military returned to a similar idea, but at a new technical level. They created their armored personnel carrier with tank armor on the basis of numerous captured tanks T-54 and T-55, which were captured as trophies from various Arab states.


The idea of ​​creating a heavy tracked armored personnel carrier "Ahzarit"


The Israeli military turned to the idea of ​​creating a heavily armored tracked armored personnel carrier in the early 1980s, largely based on the experience of the 1982 Lebanon War. During the armed conflict, according to official figures, Israel lost up to 185 armored personnel carriers, which at that time were mainly represented by American M113. During the conflict, it became apparent that this military equipment does not provide the landing party with an adequate level of protection.

Given the specifics of the region, when the enemy of the Israeli army had a large number of large-caliber rifle weapons - 12,7 and 14,5 mm machine guns, anti-tank hand grenade launchers and anti-tank systems mainly of Soviet manufacture, it became clear that the military needed a heavy armored personnel carrier with adequate armor. The fact that Israelis often had to operate in cities and urban agglomerations, where military equipment became even more vulnerable, also played a role.


Also important was the fact that in the battles during the Lebanon war the Merkava tank proved to be excellent. The tank, which has an unusual layout, could in some cases be used as an impromptu armored personnel carrier. In the rear of the Israeli tank’s hull there was a compartment for placing racks of additional ammunition or reserve crew, and here it was also possible to place up to 6 paratroopers or 4 wounded on a stretcher. In the fighting, many unnecessary items were loaded from many tanks, and they were used as heavy armored personnel carriers, which proved their good defense in combat conditions.

Summing up the combat experience accumulated by the early 1980s, the Israeli military ordered the industry a heavy tracked armored personnel carrier with powerful armor that could operate in urban areas, and also be used in conjunction with the Israeli Merkava main battle tank. The Israeli military and designers approached the issue of creating the necessary APCs with a fair amount of pragmatism. An armored personnel carrier was decided to be made on the basis of numerous Soviet-made T-54 and T-55 tanks, which were captured by Israel from the Arab states as trophies. Such military equipment was stored by the Israeli army and was waiting in the wings.

The main emphasis when creating new armored vehicles was placed on the maximum protection of the crew and landing. This was consistent with the entire concept of the Israeli army, according to which the life of a soldier is more important than the safety of military equipment. The first prototypes of the future heavy tracked armored personnel carrier were ready by 1987. The machine completely suited the Israeli military and already in 1988 was launched into serial production. In total, 54 to 55 vehicles were converted into armored personnel carriers from T-400 and T-500 tanks. Currently, it is Israel that is the main operator of heavy armored personnel carriers in the world, including the BTR "Namer" with a combat weight of 60 tons, built on the basis of the Merkava tanks.

Design features of the Akhzarit armored personnel carrier


All Akhzarit armored personnel carriers were built on the basis of the chassis and hull of the Soviet main battle tanks T-54 and T-55 with a tower dismantled during the conversion. The use of a tank corps with anti-shell armor, which was further enhanced, provides excellent protection to the crew and the landing of the combat vehicle. The crew consists of three people, landing - 7 people.


When remaking tanks in armored personnel carriers, the Israelis replaced Soviet engines and transmissions with American-made products. The first versions of the armored personnel carriers appeared more powerful and compact American 8-cylinder V-shaped diesel engines Detroit Diesel 8V-71 TTA with a capacity of 650 hp The engine is mated to an Allison hydromechanical transmission. At the same time, the specific power was small - less than 15 hp. one tone. In the future, when upgrading to the “Ahzarit-2” level, the engine was replaced with a more powerful Detroit Diesel 8 V-92TA / DDC III, which developed 850 hp. With a similar engine, power density increased to 19,31 hp. per ton, which is almost equal to the specific power of the Merkava-3 tanks. The maximum speed of the Akhzarit armored personnel carrier is 65 km / h, the range is up to 600 kilometers.

Significant changes were made to the body of the combat vehicle. Recycling was associated with a change in layout and the addition of a full landing squad. In the front of the hull there is a compartment for crew members, all of them are sitting face in the direction of the fighting vehicle. On the left side is the place of the driver, in the center - the commander of the armored personnel carrier, on the right - the arrow. Each of them has its own hatch to get out of the armored personnel carrier. Also in the roof of the hull there are two hatches for possible landing. Initially, there were seven, according to the number of foot soldiers transported, but later the number of hatches was reduced to two, since each additional hatch reduced the level of reservation of the roof of the hull.

Places of paratroopers are located directly behind the crew seats in the middle part of the APC. Three marines are placed on a bench on the left side of the compartment, another three on the folding seats on the right side, and one also on the folding seat in the center of the aft compartment. At the rear of the armored personnel carrier, the designers installed a power plant. Due to the compact size and lateral arrangement, it was possible to save space for a through passage from the fighting compartment to the right side of the stern of the hull. Thanks to this, the landing is carried out through the aft reclining ramp in the most safe way for motorized rifles. At the same time, a unique technical solution was used in the design of the aft BTR door. To facilitate and accelerate the process of disembarking motorized rifles, a part of the roof above the exit is raised by a hydraulic actuator, increasing the height of the opening.


When creating a heavy tracked armored personnel carrier, the Israelis paid special attention to the safety of the crew and the landing, which was protected from all sides: the hull sides, feed, roof and bottom are well-armored, and the frontal armor of the hull reaches 200 mm. It is worth noting that the designers significantly strengthened the existing Soviet booking. Without a tower, the tank weighed about 27 tons, but the combat mass of the resulting armored personnel carrier is 44 tons. Almost all of the "excess weight" gained during the work falls on the reservation placed by the Israelis additionally.

The largest amount of additional reservation is concentrated around the fighting compartment and protects personnel. At the same time, the principle of protecting the more important units of the combat vehicle with less important ones was used in the design of the armored personnel carrier. On the sides of the fighting compartment, designers arranged fuel tanks, which play the role of additional protection for the crew and the landing force. The aft part of the armored personnel carrier is also covered by perforated armor plates made of high-strength steel. By car, dynamic protection kits and a modern automatic fire extinguishing system appeared. Additional protection is provided by the low silhouette of the combat vehicle - the height of the armored personnel carrier is about 2000 mm. This allows you to easily hide in the folds of the terrain and behind the bush.

The main armament of the heavy Israeli armored personnel carrier is the usual FN MAG 7,62-mm machine gun aka M-240, located on the OWS (Overhead Weapon System) turret, which Rafael was responsible for developing. The machine gun turret has a remote control, which significantly reduces the risk of damage to the crew during its use. On some machines, as part of the modernization, the Israelis installed Samson remote-controlled installations with a large 12,7-mm machine gun. A special thermo-smoke equipment was also placed on the BTR, which creates a smoke screen by injecting fuel into the exhaust manifold. It is also possible to install standard smoke grenade launcher blocks.


Project Evaluation


Experts rightly consider the Israeli tracked armored personnel carrier "Ahzarit" one of the most protected in its class. Not a single armored personnel carrier of other countries can boast of such a level of armor protection. It is worth noting that, according to various estimates, from 14 to 17 tons of APC weight falls solely on additional booking, including using composite armor. The Israeli military claims that the APC is able to survive not only the hit of RPGs, various cumulative ammunition, but also armor-piercing shells. According to them, “Ahzarit” can withstand several hits of 125-mm armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber shells when hit in the frontal projection. No APC in the world can boast of such a level of protection.

Due to the high level of protection, the Akhzarit armored personnel carrier can be used on the battlefield together with the main battle tanks, acting practically in their order. Also, this technique feels good in urban areas and can be used for assault actions.

Some experts attribute to the shortcomings of the armored personnel carrier a large combat weight of 44 tons, but this is an objective necessity, due to the terms of reference and the requirements of the military. Also sometimes the disadvantages include the part of the roof raised during landing, which can tell the enemy that the landing is preparing or is already leaving the combat vehicle.


In general, it is worth recognizing that the "Ahzarit" is a unique modern armored personnel carrier, which is characterized by very good protection of the crew and landing. The creation of this armored personnel carrier is dictated by the rich combat experience of the Israel Defense Forces and demonstrates the pragmatism of the approach of the Israeli military, which turned hundreds of obsolete captured tanks into a machine that is still in service.
Author:
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  1. polpot
    polpot 15 January 2020 18: 07
    +7
    Thanks for the article, a very interesting car.
  2. Alexga
    Alexga 15 January 2020 18: 09
    +3
    From the T-54 and T-55 there were only rollers with balancers and torsions, the rest was changed
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 15 January 2020 20: 45
      +7
      On Ahzarit Mk2, the entire chassis was unified with the Merkava tank, we called them the Lebanese version.
      1. Alexga
        Alexga 15 January 2020 20: 47
        +1
        but is the caterpillar, track rollers, guides and drive wheels from Merka?
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 15 January 2020 20: 53
          +6
          Yes, I’m saying, on Ahzarit Mk2, the track rollers from the T-55 were weak and cast, and the new ones separate and more durable.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 15 January 2020 21: 12
        +2
        Quote: merkava-2bet
        On Ahzarit Mk2, the entire chassis was unified with the Merkava tank

        Merkava has a spring suspension, T-55 has a torsion suspension - how can they be completely unified?
        Rollers, a caterpillar - quite, a suspension - hardly.
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 15 January 2020 22: 35
          +3
          I need to chew every word.
          On Akhzarit, MK2 are unified from Merkava-2 tanks, it was with him and not Merkava-3, track rollers with new balancers, a caterpillar, and torsion bars were created on the basis of Abrams tank technology, at one time these torsion bars were also used on the Magakh-7 tank. amplification of torsion bars, additional armoring of the bottom and sides, equipment. Sloth native and drive wheel also from T-55/62.
          Look at the photo, I hope there will be no more children's questions.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 16 January 2020 02: 21
            +3
            Quote: merkava-2bet
            Look at the photo, I hope there will be no more children's questions.

            And what do I see in the photo? just that the track rollers are not native.
            Separately, I did not find information on the Mk2 torsion bar suspension. They write:
            ".... One could say that the independent spring suspension is outdated if the Merkava tank was not adopted by the Israeli army in the late 70s. The suspension of the Mk 1 and Mk 2 Merkava tanks on one side consists of of six suspension units.Each unit includes a balancer, a spring with two parallel springs and a hydraulic roller travel stop.Telescopic hydraulic shock absorbers are installed on the first, second, fifth and sixth suspension units. towards the stern, therefore, externally, the suspension assemblies form three bogies in pairs, which can be misleading, and some sources indicate that the Merkava's suspension is balanced-spring, although in fact it is independent. Dynamic stroke of large-diameter rollers (D = 790 mm) a sufficiently high is provided - 210 mm .... "
            http://armor.kiev.ua/Tank/design/suspension/2/
            Photo MK-2, that would be visible chassis, I did not come across. But on the Mk-1 and Mk-3 (and on the subsequent ones) it is spring-loaded:



      3. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 16 January 2020 18: 10
        +4
        By the way, specially filmed today at the training ground, this is a new modification of Ahzarit, Ahzarit Mk3.
        A new nose-mounted armored module and airborne armor packs, a 12,7 mm Katan DPU and other devices, a commander "transparent" turret and a loophole in the aft ramp. And also two Merkava-4Mem tanks.




    2. gggdddsssccc
      gggdddsssccc 16 January 2020 18: 00
      +1
      there was only an armored hull, rollers, goose, torsion bars did not pull the weight of 44 tons, everything was replaced,
      not immediately but as the resource is developed.
  3. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 15 January 2020 18: 33
    12
    The old man finishes his service in personnel units. By the end of the year, Givati ​​will switch to Namer and the reservists will only have the Ahzarites.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 15 January 2020 19: 20
      19
      Respect for your designers for both this apparatus and the "Merkava" - everything is done to protect the crew. As a tanker, I understand that.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 15 January 2020 19: 46
        -4
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Respect for your designers and for this device, and for the "merkava"

        By and large, these designers were mainly from the USSR - they determined this by the first captured tanks when they analyzed the design and technological solutions, and our specialists immediately understood where the legs of this equipment grow from.
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 15 January 2020 20: 49
          +2
          Where did the sources come from, what were the tanks captured in the analysis, and most importantly why. If we are talking about the Magakh-3 tank with the DZ Blazer, then that was all, everything else was the story.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 15 January 2020 21: 30
            -2
            Quote: merkava-2bet
            Where did the sources come from, for which captured tanks the analysis was conducted, and most importantly why.

            From the same sources that wrote in the "Foreign Military Review". By the way, the repair and modernization of Soviet tanks that Israel captured were also mainly done by former immigrants from the USSR, and this is also a fact.
            The sample (by the way is not the only one that was investigated) was stored in a museum in Kubinka until Putin returned it to Israel, although it is not clear why.
            Quote: merkava-2bet
            .If we are talking about the Magah-3 tank with the DZ Blazer, then that was it, the rest was the story.

            It seems so to you because dynamic protection was created on the basis of our and American developments:
            Israel, having experience of large-scale battles using tanks and suffering heavy losses in the 1973 war of the year, was the first to equip its combat vehicles with dynamic protection (DZ), although research in this area in the 50-70s was conducted in the USSR, the USA and the FRG. But in the countries that are "trendsetters" in the field of tank building, they decided to do all kinds of screens and combined multi-layered armor from materials of different densities.

            As for Merkava, during the Lebanon war, Israel lost about 50 of them, and something was examined by our military experts on the spot. But you can consider it tales.
            1. merkava-2bet
              merkava-2bet 15 January 2020 22: 23
              +3
              Over the entire existence of the Merkava tank, and this from 1979 until now, it has been irretrievably lost, I repeat, irretrievably, less than 20 tanks.
              In the first Lebanese one, seven (7) Merkava tanks were lost irrevocably, including two tanks that fell into the abyss. There were other tank losses, such as Magakh-6 and Shot (Centurion), but this does not apply to the Merkava tank.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 16 January 2020 11: 51
                0
                Quote: merkava-2bet
                In the first Lebanese seven (7) Merkava tanks were lost forever,

                You cunningly stipulate the word "irrevocably", forgetting that some of them, although they were evacuated, were no longer subject to repair.
                Quote: merkava-2bet
                but this does not apply to the Merkava tank.

                You speculate on Merkava as if it were a masterpiece of tank building, although experts evaluate it as an ordinary tank, and with a limited area of ​​use. And they beat him more than once. So what is tsimes?
            2. Pecheneg
              Pecheneg 16 January 2020 07: 12
              +1
              That's right, ours were there in 82
        2. Professor
          Professor 15 January 2020 21: 34
          +6
          Quote: ccsr
          By and large, these designers were mainly from the USSR - they determined this by the first captured tanks when they analyzed the design and technological solutions, and our specialists immediately understood where the legs of this equipment grow from.

          Only trouble, the tanks were American-made. Make up a different story.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 15 January 2020 21: 40
            0
            Quote: Professor
            Only trouble, the tanks were American-made.

            Were Merkava also American?
            Quote: Professor
            Make up a different story.

            You at least study it for a start, and not only on the Israeli media:
            The first Merkava was destroyed at the end of September. The missile hit the tower, the tank commander died. On October 13, another tank was hit, crew members were not seriously injured. October 18, two vocational schools1 set fire to the tank, one crew member was killed. The loss of three tanks seriously affected the morale of the tankers, and the command considered the withdrawal of heavy equipment from the security zone.

            https://forums.airbase.ru/2001/06/t9149--boevaya-kolesnitsa-izrailya.2760.html
            1. Professor
              Professor 15 January 2020 21: 45
              +4
              Quote: ccsr
              Were Merkava also American?

              So when did the USSR seize the "first" Merkavas? Make up a different story.

              Quote: ccsr
              The first Merkava was destroyed at the end of September. The missile hit the tower, the tank commander died. On October 13, another tank was hit, crew members were not seriously injured. October 18, two vocational schools1 set fire to the tank, one crew member was killed. The loss of three tanks seriously affected the morale of the tankers, and the command considered the withdrawal of heavy equipment from the security zone.

              The question is, who Seized Merkava "for study"?

              Quote: ccsr
              https://forums.airbase.ru/2001/06/t9149--boevaya-kolesnitsa-izrailya.2760.html

              This forum drives the blizzard. There were no collisions of Merkava and T-72.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 16 January 2020 11: 46
                -1
                Quote: Professor
                So when did the USSR seize the "first" Merkavas? Make up a different story.

                I told you that our military experts examined the site - and this is a fact. What kind of specialists, I do not specify, but the fact remains. By the way, one of my classmates was awarded the highest military order by the father of the current Syrian president and has some privileges - he helped the Syrians in countering the Israeli special services. So do not puff out your cheeks - the failure of Israeli aircraft and tank building is obvious to all experts, because Israel could not seriously pull such programs.
                Quote: Professor
                This forum drives the blizzard.

                Leave your Odessa jokes for the 95th quarter - there they applaud ....
                1. Professor
                  Professor 16 January 2020 12: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  I told you that our military experts examined the site - and this is a fact.

                  Not a "fact" but delirium. One knocked-out Merkava was left for several hours and was burned by the children. After that, the tank was evacuated. No specialists could get acquainted with it.


                  Quote: ccsr
                  What kind of specialists, I do not specify, but the fact remains.

                  Not "fact", but your wishlist.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  By the way, one of my classmates was awarded the highest military order by the father of the current Syrian president and has some privileges - he helped the Syrians in countering the Israeli special services.

                  I personally know such officers. So what?

                  Quote: ccsr
                  So do not puff out your cheeks - the failure of Israeli aircraft and tank building is obvious to all experts, because Israel could not seriously pull such programs.

                  The trolling attempt counted.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Quote: Professor
                  This forum drives the blizzard.

                  Leave your Odessa jokes for the 95th quarter - there they applaud ....

                  Do not even start otherwise, I will ask where and when the battle took place and you will sit in a puddle. Normally.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Quote: Professor
                  Only trouble, the tanks were American-made.

                  What the hell is the difference - the designer and the technologists were from the USSR, so they raised Israel's general level of tank builders to the Soviet school, because thanks to them, their own tank appeared in Israel. And whose design they used does not matter - have you heard anything about the Christie tank, and its role in the creation of Soviet tanks in the 30s?

                  Wishlist again. Israel Tal was not Soviet at all, and to work in the Israeli defense industry, repatriates must successfully pass a security check, and for this it is necessary:
                  1. Many years to live in Israel.
                  2. Serve in Tsahal.

                  Soviet engineers working for the Soviet military-industrial complex were refuseniks. They simply were not allowed out of the USSR. This is a medical fact. And accordingly, they could not take away the secrets of tank building, serve in Tsahal and raise the Israeli military-industrial complex with their knowledge.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 16 January 2020 13: 32
                    -1
                    Quote: Professor
                    No experts could get to know him.

                    They have already studied everything in Israel - relax smart guy ...
                    Not a "fact" but delirium. One knocked-out Merkava was left for several hours

                    This is quite enough to take pictures, measurements, and take samples of materials.
                    The trolling attempt counted.

                    Count anything, but the fact remains that no one in the world needs Israeli planes and tanks except a UAV of a certain class.
                    Don’t even start otherwise I’ll ask

                    I understand that you imagine yourself to be a professor, but believe it, it only seems to you.
                    Wishlist again. Israel Tal was not Soviet at all, and to work in the Israeli defense industry, repatriates must successfully pass a security check, and for this it is necessary:
                    1. Many years to live in Israel.
                    2. Serve in Tsahal.

                    And the former Defense Minister, our deeply respected Lieberman, avoided all this? It seems that he was suspected of blackmailing in the USSR, but for your special services this is just a business, so we "trust" you.
                    Soviet engineers working for the Soviet military-industrial complex were refuseniks. They simply were not allowed out of the USSR. This is a medical fact. And accordingly, they could not take away the secrets of tank building, serve in Tsahal and raise the Israeli military-industrial complex with their knowledge.

                    We are not so naive as to believe in your tales.
                    It’s better to read how relatives ruined the career of Izi Koifman, a respected designer and developer of communication systems:
                    ... Izya was in good standing both with military customers and in his head office of the MPSS, so that he was guaranteed career growth, despite his fifth point. In a word, the card laid down so that he was supposed to head the Voronezh NIIS in the next year or two, because during this time either the director retired or was promoted to the Ministry, and Izya was the main candidate for the vacated post and deserved and from work experience, and simply as a competent specialist, matured for such a responsible position. Moreover, preliminary approval was received in his ministry.
                    But fate brought him a blow, from where he least expected it - from his closest relatives, who suddenly decided to return to their historic homeland overnight. I don’t know the degree of their relationship, but these were people close to him and, despite all his persuasions, at least to wait until he was appointed to the post of director of the institute, they nevertheless left for Israel.
                    Let me remind you that the post of director of such an institute from the Defense Ministry was at least a nomenclature, i.e. demanded a certain agreement with many structures, including the Central Committee of the CPSU and the KGB of the USSR. And when the collection of documents for submission to the position began, then in the column "16. Do you have close relatives permanently residing (living) abroad", Izya described in detail both the degree of kinship and the place of residence of his loved ones, because there is no need to hide it made sense .....

                    Полный текст
                    http://zapravdu.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3093&start=390
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 16 January 2020 13: 47
                      +3
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Quote: Professor
                      No experts could get to know him.

                      They have already studied everything in Israel - relax smart guy ...

                      Merged? And how glorious it all began: "it was determined by the first captured tanks when we conducted an analysis of design and technological solutions, and our experts immediately realized where the legs of this equipment grow".

                      Quote: ccsr
                      This is quite enough to take pictures, measurements, and take samples of materials.

                      Not enough. The tank was in the line of fire in Beirut. That's why they burned it. There were no Soviet "specialists" there. Don't fantasize.

                      And the former Defense Minister, our deeply respected Lieberman, avoided all this? It seems that he was suspected of blackmailing in the USSR, but for your special services this is just a business, so we "trust" you.

                      And the former minister at the defense enterprise did not work either in the USSR or in Israel.

                      Quote: ccsr
                      We are not so naive as to believe in your tales.

                      It’s monopenical to me what you believe and what you don’t.
                      Here's the faculty at the Technion Aeronautics Department. Find the "Soviet" there.
                      https://aerospace.technion.ac.il/people/faculty-members/

                      It’s better to read how relatives ruined the career of Izi Koifman, a respected designer and developer of communication systems:

                      This flood does not interest me.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 16 January 2020 14: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        Merged?

                        I pinned it, but you didn’t enter here ... But keep in mind that in every joke there is some truth, since Kedmi has registered for us on TV, then you should think about it.
                        Quote: Professor
                        And the former minister at the defense enterprise did not work either in the USSR or in Israel.

                        How then was he appointed to such a responsible position?
                        Quote: Professor
                        Here's the faculty at the Technion Aeronautics Department. Find the "Soviet" there.

                        That's because they are not there, except for Kfir, the Israelis failed to create a new one. So say thanks to our natives who created the production for you for this copy, otherwise it would not have been.
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 16 January 2020 14: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I pinned it, but you didn’t enter here ... But keep in mind that in every joke there is some truth, since Kedmi has registered for us on TV, then you should think about it.

                        Is that what it's called now? He lied, got caught, moved out for fun.

                        Quote: ccsr
                        How then was he appointed to such a responsible position?

                        In accordance with what I wrote above, CEP.

                        Quote: ccsr
                        That's because they are not there, except for Kfir, the Israelis failed to create a new one. So say thanks to our natives who created the production for you for this copy, otherwise it would not have been.

                        And who wrote "except for a certain class of UAVs"?

                        Do not answer. Everything is clear with you.
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 16 January 2020 19: 14
                        -4
                        Quote: Professor
                        He lied, got caught, moved out for fun.

                        You are certainly illiterate, because in Lebanon there was our embassy and, accordingly, military attaches worked. And what they do, you probably never understand ...
                        Quote: Professor
                        In accordance with what I wrote above, CEP.

                        So your intelligence services were overlooked - they poorly studied his biography.
                        Quote: Professor
                        And who wrote "except for a certain class of UAVs"?

                        In Soviet times, pioneers at the Yuny Tekhnik stations assembled such items by hand. True, there were no current gadgets in the form of cameras, etc., but these models flew no worse than Israeli ballistic missiles. You are not far from the level of the Soviet pioneers - congratulations, you have something to be proud of ...
                        Quote: Professor
                        Do not answer. Everything is clear with you.

                        Yes, we know all of your duty blanks, verbiage. How many shekels do you pay for a post and in whose budget do you pay taxes? This is a matter of principle, so stick.
                    2. Pavel57
                      Pavel57 21 February 2020 23: 23
                      0
                      Kfir from F-16 has 2 differences.)))
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 16 January 2020 00: 45
          +3
          In Lebanon in 1982 there was a counter battle of Merkava-1 and the Syrian T-62.
          Close-range gunfire with mutual tank losses.
          This was the first battle of Merkava. In Israel, they were satisfied: the tanks did not catch fire
          when breaking through, crew losses were low.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 16 January 2020 11: 56
        -1
        Quote: Professor
        Only trouble, the tanks were American-made.

        What the hell is the difference - the designer and the technologists were from the USSR, so they raised Israel's general level of tank builders to the Soviet school, because thanks to them, their own tank appeared in Israel. And whose design they used does not matter - have you heard anything about the Christie tank, and its role in the creation of Soviet tanks in the 30s?
  4. kiril1246
    kiril1246 15 January 2020 20: 52
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Respect for your designers for both this apparatus and the "Merkava" - everything is done to protect the crew. As a tanker, I understand that.

    Well, some of the designers began with you, but they were already implemented in Israel. I advise you to read about Arkady Timor.
  • honest people
    honest people 15 January 2020 18: 47
    +3
    This is sadness in our army "goodbye dear crew" BTR 80 and BMP 2,3 and Israel is already writing off Akhzarits in 44 tons. I would like to know more about booking.
    1. iuocsfyu
      iuocsfyu 15 January 2020 19: 07
      -28 qualifying.
      Quote: honest people
      This is sadness in our army "goodbye dear crew" BTR 80 and BMP 2,3 and Israel is already writing off Akhzarits in 44 tons. I would like to know more about booking.

      Neither Scoop nor Russia could and could not do this. Because there was and is not its own compact and powerful engine, but on other people's sanctions. It was the compact engine that made it possible to create a stern output in the same volume that the Soviet engine occupied completely.
      1. Uncle Izya
        Uncle Izya 15 January 2020 19: 22
        12
        Sit in your srail what a scoop?
        You are on a Russian site and not an Israeli one!
        1. Dmitry Vinner
          Dmitry Vinner 17 January 2020 13: 55
          -2
          "You are on a Russian site, not an Israeli one!"
          And I thought Israel. They say much more about Israel than about Russia. So there’s nothing more to say about Russia. I will take note
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 15 January 2020 19: 51
        +3
        Quote: iuocsfyu
        Neither Scoop nor Russia could and could not do this.

        Calm down "theorist" - tanks and armored personnel carriers are different types of armored vehicles with different tasks. Why do we need such a monster, which, in terms of the cost of creation and operation, is almost equal to that of a tank, and when using modern ATGMs, it will not save the crew on the battlefield. And the peculiarities of the size of our territory and climatic conditions indicate that our armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles are quite suitable for the rapid transfer of motorized rifles.
        By the way, our engines are needed for the production of domestic equipment, so sanctions for tank builders in general do not care.
    2. Uncle Izya
      Uncle Izya 15 January 2020 20: 32
      0
      There are no such cars in the usa either
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 15 January 2020 21: 33
        -3
        Quote: Uncle Izya
        There are no such cars in the usa either

        So they also understand the flaw of such a technique, and therefore they don’t. The Israelis needed it more for PR, to show everyone that they have a serious tank building base. But a miscarriage happened - this area has not received worldwide recognition.
    3. LastPS
      LastPS 17 January 2020 10: 01
      -1
      Akhzarit is a car, of course, necessary, but extremely specific. It cannot be compared with mass types of armored personnel carriers. Not a single army can afford such a massive amount - it will go bankrupt. Ideal for operations in the city, for the rest it is not applicable at all - there is no amphibiousness, air transportability is close to zero, much more expensive to operate than a typical mass armored personnel carrier. Israel does not care about these disadvantages, in its conditions they do not solve anything, and the IDF has other types of armored personnel carriers for more trivial tasks. Our machines are stupidly outdated and do not meet modern requirements.
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 15 January 2020 18: 52
    +7
    "It was also important that the tank" Merkava "proved to be excellent in the battles during the Lebanese war ..." (c) It sounds unconvincing. Especially after 11 knocked out tanks near the Saluki river.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 15 January 2020 19: 19
      +5
      Quote: Captive
      "It was also important that the tank" Merkava "proved to be excellent in the battles during the Lebanese war ..." (c) It sounds unconvincing. Especially after 11 knocked out tanks near the Saluki river.

      Earnestly. The article refers to the 1982 war.
    2. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 15 January 2020 20: 16
      -2
      About 2500 BT vehicles, including 470 T-72 tanks and 8 T-90 tanks, were destroyed in Syria. One tank was irretrievably lost at the Saluki River, and only 10 were damaged, and only the Kornet ATGMs were beaten by them; 72/90.
      Read the bulletins carefully.
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner 15 January 2020 20: 19
        -4
        Our tanks will withstand. Do not be scared.
      2. palatin64
        palatin64 15 January 2020 22: 55
        -2
        Find at least one difference between Nazi propaganda and Zionist propaganda ...
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 16 January 2020 12: 08
        +1
        Quote: merkava-2bet
        Read the bulletins carefully.

        Only Israeli read, or use other sources? Who told you that the Israeli propaganda is less false than the propaganda of the opposing states, especially in matters of their own success and loss?
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 16 January 2020 00: 51
      +6
      You mixed up the 1st Lebanon War of 1982 and
      2nd Lebanon War of 2006.
      In 82, Merkava-1 fought for the first time, in 2006 Merkava-3 and 4 fought.
  • vanavatny
    vanavatny 15 January 2020 19: 09
    +4
    April 10, 2012 the author already wrote about ,, cruel ,, repeat
  • Undecim
    Undecim 15 January 2020 19: 11
    +9
    The idea of ​​creating an armored personnel carrier based on the tank is not new. The first such machines were created during the Second World War.
    The first such vehicles, that is, tank-based armored personnel carriers, were created during the First World War.

    Mark IX is the world's first armored personnel carrier based on the Mark V.
    1. prodi
      prodi 16 January 2020 10: 15
      +2
      and this is probably the ideal layout for an armored personnel carrier and infantry fighting vehicle: exits on three sides plus top hatches
  • Lekz
    Lekz 15 January 2020 19: 28
    +5
    You won’t drink skill. He is a Jew and a Jew in Africa. Zealous people. In our country, 20 thousand potential armored personnel carriers have been sent for re-melting. Maybe it's worth taking over the experience?
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 16 January 2020 08: 46
      0
      Yes, they were more profitable by weight of scrap metal without dismantling it. as it is. It’s like the Swedes bought from the Federal Republic of Germany GDRrovsike BMP-1.
      1. Lekz
        Lekz 16 January 2020 12: 02
        +3
        Well, that's what they thought. But the Jews thought otherwise. But. I would not teach Jews economics. They may not understand.
        1. Strashila
          Strashila 16 January 2020 12: 03
          0
          to teach them economics, you yourself will remain without pants.
        2. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 16 January 2020 14: 21
          +4
          Quote: Lekz
          I would not teach Jews economics.

          Well, people try, and someone succeeds. laughing
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 16 January 2020 12: 18
        0
        Quote: Strashila
        Yes, they were more profitable by weight of scrap metal without dismantling it. as it is.

        This is not entirely true, because the cost of metal from cut armored vehicles is 2,5 to 3 times higher than the cost of unsorted scrap metal. In those days, when selling armored vehicles, they gave about 40 marks of Germany for a ton of unsorted scrap metal and for our BMP-1 they gave about 500 marks, if my memory serves me right. But for scrap, prepared for remelting, they gave 120-140 grades per ton. those. it made sense to cut, though there the ecologists raised a lot of stench, but the process went on at our tank repair plants.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 16 January 2020 19: 02
      0
      Quote: Lekz
      You won’t drink skill. He is a Jew and a Jew in Africa. Zealous people. In our country, 20 thousand potential armored personnel carriers have been sent for re-melting. Maybe it's worth taking over the experience?

      Experience the war with the Arabs? Why do we need it in the Volga region, in the Urals and in Siberia? Different TVDs, different opponents, different scales. And they have no tank, and this armored personnel carrier is the same. Technique must ensure the completion of the task. Our - provides what else is needed? I hardly represent SMEs in armored personnel carriers weighing over 40 tons. Nonsense. Well, maybe the Putin Guard would do. But in the army - is it like the suffering of some of the wonder machine Terminator - is there a lot of it in the troops? Because everything has its place. In our country, they have a place in the trash. We need what we need, and not Israel, for example. Phew, how many bukff laughing
      1. Lekz
        Lekz 16 January 2020 23: 02
        +2
        Do not exaggerate. The experience of wars with terrorists and sleeping Arabs in full should not be used. Your truth. I talked about the experience of using outdated morally weapons. Without going into particular, in Syria, some of the Israeli experience could and will come in handy. Offhand, you can equip the chassis 54/55 and 62 with unified combat modules to support the transported Syrian infantry. Cheap and cheerful. This is better than substituting 72 and 90 for ATGMs of barmaley with bare infantry. No?
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 17 January 2020 19: 44
          0
          Quote: Lekz
          Do not exaggerate. The experience of wars with terrorists and sleeping Arabs in full should not be used. Your truth. I talked about the experience of using outdated morally weapons. Without going into particular, in Syria, some of the Israeli experience could and will come in handy. Offhand, you can equip the chassis 54/55 and 62 with unified combat modules to support the transported Syrian infantry. Cheap and cheerful. This is better than substituting 72 and 90 for ATGMs of barmaley with bare infantry. No?

          No. The Russian Federation did not subscribe to anything other than what it was doing. The rest are the problems of the Syrians. I think Shoigu will agree with me, if that.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 15 January 2020 19: 48
    +3
    The car is probably not bad, they take care of the soldiers or something, as we did what the armored personnel carrier, the BMP, the soldiers inside are afraid to get into it. it is better to be shot than burned.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2020 21: 10
      +2
      Do we have soil, terrain and climate equivalent to the Middle East?
      1. Strashila
        Strashila 16 January 2020 08: 43
        +2
        In Russia you can find any terrain and climatic zone, so all Soviet / Russian weapons should work -50 / + 50, if necessary, they will do it personally for the order.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 16 January 2020 12: 27
          0
          Quote: Strashila
          this is why all Soviet / Russian weapons should work -50 / + 50,

          Well, you slightly exaggerated about "everything", because -50 C is the limit for storing a SPECIFIC technique, but in the range of application in the USSR there were fourteen groups, up to "greenhouse" ones. Not all military equipment could be operated at very low temperatures, the same batteries, for example.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 16 January 2020 19: 14
      -2
      Quote: Free Wind
      The car is probably not bad, they take care of the soldiers or something, as we did what the armored personnel carrier, the BMP, the soldiers inside are afraid to get into it. it is better to be shot than burned.

      If you are a pacifist, then I understand. And if not, then you are definitely not a military man. Then, like, why talk on a military topic? But I do not mean "to run over", I mean "understand" - what are you talking about? "The soldier (sailor) is obliged ..." you know? And the rest is up to the commander to be burned or shot, or to return home healthy. It does not depend on the BMP / BTR, but only on the commander, the fighter himself and luck.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 15 January 2020 20: 24
    0
    Most importantly, the design allows the use of dynamic and active forms of protection.
    In our army, the BTR-T variants didn’t take root much.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2020 22: 58
      0
      Does this machine have the ability to withstand chemical and radiation contamination of the area?
      1. Strashila
        Strashila 16 January 2020 08: 40
        -1
        Like everything Soviet, yes
    2. iuocsfyu
      iuocsfyu 15 January 2020 23: 32
      -1
      Quote: Strashila
      In our army, the BTR-T variants didn’t take root much.

      They did not take root, but were not created. They were abandoned at the test stage precisely because they could not create a feed yield.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 16 January 2020 02: 05
        +6
        Gospidya! But the "aft exit" is created not only due to the compact engine! Some "innovators" forced the tanks to move "in reverse"! An example is the Jordanians with their armored personnel carriers "on the Centurion" ... if my memory serves me, prototypes were created in Ukraine according to the same "scheme ...
        1. iuocsfyu
          iuocsfyu 16 January 2020 08: 58
          +1
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Some "innovators" forced the tanks to move "in reverse"! An example is the Jordanians with their armored personnel carriers "on the Centurion" ... if my memory serves me, prototypes were created in Ukraine according to the same "scheme ...

          - Neither this way nor that, further tests of prototypes have not advanced. This is called - they could not.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 16 January 2020 11: 19
            0
            Quote: iuocsfyu
            further tests of prototypes did not advance. This is called - they could not.

            And if "could"? And what about hindering reasons? In Ukraine, this is financial ... "drying up" of production capacities ... In general terms, reports from Ukraine about the "development" of new types of weapons appear quite often ... but they remain in prototypes, sometimes, not due to "failure"; and due to lack of funding, production "base" ... As for Jordan, then there can
            "insert the word" financial problems, but, nevertheless, the aircraft ordered 4 "pieces" of Temsakh armored personnel carriers for "trial operation" (!) relatively recently! Who knows how the situation will "turn" in the near future?
        2. Star Destroyer
          Star Destroyer 16 January 2020 11: 52
          -1
          Tanks cannot be equally well made to drive in both directions. Therefore, alterations of ready-made machines with a 180 degree turn will not be successful. Initially, it was necessary to build heavy infantry fighting vehicles instead of tens of thousands of decayed tanks and waterfowl wedges, countless soldier lives would have been saved.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 16 January 2020 13: 16
            +2
            Quote: Star Destroyer
            Tanks cannot be equally well made to drive in both directions.

            Is it necessary? It has already become a practice when MBT in "small-territorial" countries are brought to the "front line" by trailers! And on the battlefield, the speed of movement of tanks depends on other factors! For example, during the Arab-Israeli wars, the military noticed that the "high-speed" but light AMX-13 tanks moved on the battlefield more slowly than the heavy "centurions"!
          2. Doliva63
            Doliva63 16 January 2020 19: 20
            -3
            Quote: Star Destroyer
            Tanks cannot be equally well made to drive in both directions. Therefore, alterations of ready-made machines with a 180 degree turn will not be successful. Initially, it was necessary to build heavy infantry fighting vehicles instead of tens of thousands of decayed tanks and waterfowl wedges, countless soldier lives would have been saved.

            Imagine a river in the Volga region and a bridge with the sign of 25 tons. A 40-ton armored personnel carrier does not float. What to do? While the pontoons will wait at the bridge, they will be smashed to dust. What an awesome care you have for soldiers' lives! Maybe you don’t need to write about what you obviously did not study for?
            1. Star Destroyer
              Star Destroyer 16 January 2020 20: 18
              0
              Imagine a river in the Volga region and a bridge with the sign of 25 tons. A 40-ton armored personnel carrier does not float.
              the same as the tank to do, wait for the bridge layer, or ford. The benefit of the deep rivers in the European part of the world is not much more than fingers on the hand (there is only one such river in the Volga region!).
              Maybe you don’t need to write about what you obviously did not study for?
              Great advice, start with yourself. But I should not indicate the right, without the advice of others I’ll manage somehow.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 17 January 2020 12: 40
                0
                Quote: Star Destroyer
                The benefit of the deep rivers in the European part of the world is not much more than fingers on the hand (there is only one such river in the Volga region!).

                Do not tell me that even in the suburbs of Moscow you will come across several insurmountable rivers during a march of 100 km in any direction that such equipment can never overcome without bridge structures or engineering units. And there’s just a swampy area where the BMP-BTR can and will slip, but the 40-ton machine will definitely not pass.
        3. bairat
          bairat 17 January 2020 07: 42
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Gospidya! But the "aft exit" is created not only due to the compact engine! Some "innovators" forced the tanks to move "in reverse"! An example is the Jordanians with their armored personnel carriers "on the Centurion" ... if my memory serves me, prototypes were created in Ukraine according to the same "scheme ...

          As a result of inspection of the damaged equipment, the commission found out that breaking through the rear projection of the T-34 tank in most cases did not lead to the death of the crew. Although there is the thinnest armor. It would seem that this is the solution, but it turned out that the mechanical drive, because of the front location of the MTO, does not see anything in front of the tank. With modern surveillance tools, this problem is solved, and a comfortable exit through the back door is a plus.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 15 January 2020 21: 09
    +1
    Some experts attribute to the shortcomings of the armored personnel carrier a large combat weight of 44 tons, but this is an objective necessity, due to the terms of reference and the requirements of the military.

    Israel Defense Forces! I had to clarify, dear Author! For a European theater of war, such a machine is heavy (44 tons) and does not have the ability to overcome water barriers without the help of engineering units!
    1. Star Destroyer
      Star Destroyer 16 January 2020 11: 58
      +3
      On the European theater of operation, a lot of military vehicles with a mass long exceeded 60 tons, and they don’t complain.
      You’ll be surprised, but the combined-arms technology moves in the same order as tanks and engineering units. Forcing water obstacles should be carried out by special units using special equipment. Why the hell were the massive armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles endowed with buoyancy, nobody will probably say.
      1. prodi
        prodi 16 January 2020 12: 50
        +5
        our generals, as the topic of forcing obstacles hurt in WWII, they still will not depart
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 16 January 2020 19: 23
        0
        Quote: Star Destroyer
        On the European theater of operation, a lot of military vehicles with a mass long exceeded 60 tons, and they don’t complain.
        You’ll be surprised, but the combined-arms technology moves in the same order as tanks and engineering units. Forcing water obstacles should be carried out by special units using special equipment. Why the hell were the massive armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles endowed with buoyancy, nobody will probably say.

        Of course, no one who has read BUSV even once.
        1. Star Destroyer
          Star Destroyer 16 January 2020 20: 12
          0
          Of course, no one who has read BUSV even once.

          Worse, the staff generals wrote it ... based on their "vision" of what is happening and taking into account the experience of the long past past.
  • IL-64
    IL-64 15 January 2020 22: 10
    -3
    It seems to me that in the conditions of urban development, the tanks do not feel very comfortable ...
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2020 23: 00
      +1
      With the complete absence of infantry and air cover, urban development is deadly for tank crews!
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 16 January 2020 19: 27
      -2
      Quote: IL-64
      It seems to me that in the conditions of urban development, the tanks do not feel very comfortable ...

      Comfort in war is a relative concept. But the battle in the city in the BUSV of the USSR Armed Forces was registered. Read at your leisure.
      1. IL-64
        IL-64 16 January 2020 23: 44
        0
        Did you read Grachev? Before giving the order to storm Grozny? At leisure then?
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 17 January 2020 19: 28
          0
          Quote: IL-64
          Did you read Grachev? Before giving the order to storm Grozny? At leisure then?

          Ask him, what have I got to do with it? Most likely, he sneezed at BUSV, he wanted to earn political points in the eyes of an alcoholic. In fairness, by that time a huge mass of sensible people had left the troops, and whoever stayed avoided getting there (which is right, in my opinion). As a result, there remained the finished careerists, youth and reserve officers. Among my friends who were there, exactly 3 of these categories. Fortunately, everyone was lucky: careerists made a career, young people gained experience (and correctly evaluated it later), storekeepers returned home alive. Among the careerists there were also those who sneezed on BUSV, like Grachev, and put a company after a company in the field in order to receive the order, and they got it. One at such a price quickly grew from majors to colonels. And they would vomit the letter of the Charter, would remain majors, but would fulfill the task with minimal losses. So it’s not in BUSV’s business, but in those who must fulfill it. Honestly, I wanted to go there myself then, like, to show - look how it should be! Not allowed. Friends then said - and rightly so, our own people would bang you there, because you’re not fucked, you can’t argue against politics. Right now 100 gr. drinks
          1. Karen
            Karen 17 January 2020 19: 44
            0
            It was interesting to read about careerists and young people ... Somehow I talked with a man whose merits there were so great that years later, when he went to Rostov, he became a personal guest of Kazantsev ... So, he submitted a report 4 times on dismissal (the reason - they did not give him general epaulettes, because of our nationality) ...

            As for Grachev ... he pointed out more than once: there is a video from December 14 from his office, where he was indignant: "What are they doing ?! Tanks are good in the field, not in the city !!!"
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 17 January 2020 19: 54
              0
              Quote: Karen
              It was interesting to read about careerists and young people ... Somehow I talked with a man whose merits there were so great that years later, when he went to Rostov, he became a personal guest of Kazantsev ... So, he submitted a report 4 times on dismissal (the reason - they did not give him general epaulettes, because of our nationality) ...

              As for Grachev ... he pointed out more than once: there is a video from December 14 from his office, where he was indignant: "What are they doing ?! Tanks are good in the field, not in the city !!!"

              What kind of nationality is such that it is prohibited in the Russian Federation? laughing And the tanks are good everywhere, Grachev brazenly lied. Moreover, in fact, it is around the tank that an assault group is formed for battle in the city. You see, I graduated from a tank school, more or less I know "what they eat with."
              1. Karen
                Karen 17 January 2020 19: 59
                0
                As for professionalism, I have no doubt ... And if a lot of grenade launchers in the city hid? In Berlin, we lost 3000 tanks ... And RPG-7 is probably better against the tank than the Faustpatron ...
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 17 January 2020 20: 17
                  -2
                  Quote: Karen
                  As for professionalism, I have no doubt ... And if a lot of grenade launchers in the city hid? In Berlin, we lost 3000 tanks ... And RPG-7 is probably better against the tank than the Faustpatron ...

                  How many grenade launchers in the city, the tanker / infantryman is completely fucked up. This question is in the competence of the intelligence and the commander. If they "get lost", then everything depends on the preparedness of the personnel.
                  I don’t remember for Berlin, but in the Berlin operation, and this is starting from the Zeelov Heights, we lost less than 2000 tanks. By the way, I saw these heights, how tanks went there at all, I can’t imagine.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 17 January 2020 20: 25
                    0
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    How many grenade launchers are there in the city, the tanker / infantryman is completely fucked up. This issue is the responsibility of the intelligence and commander.

                    How many grenade launchers could have been in Grozny, yours knew: by agreement with Shaposhnikov, they divided "like brothers" from what was available in Chechnya ... so that the war would flare up to glory ...
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 17 January 2020 20: 39
                      0
                      Quote: Karen
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      How many grenade launchers are there in the city, the tanker / infantryman is completely fucked up. This issue is the responsibility of the intelligence and commander.

                      How many grenade launchers could have been in Grozny, yours knew: by agreement with Shaposhnikov, they divided "like brothers" from what was available in Chechnya ... so that the war would flare up to glory ...

                      Here I am not in the know and was not interested.
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 17 January 2020 20: 47
                        0
                        I used to write somewhere ... In March of the 92nd, I lived with two Chechens in a departmental hotel ... they were 150% hard workers ... In the evening, after their educational trips to work, they only read working literature in the issue. .. So, they told me that there was a violent arming of the population in Chechnya ... So, of the remaining half of the scoop, they would calmly arm everyone ...
                      2. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 17 January 2020 20: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Karen
                        I used to write somewhere ... In March of the 92nd, I lived with two Chechens in a departmental hotel ... they were 150% hard workers ... In the evening, after their educational trips to work, they only read working literature in the issue. .. So, they told me that there was a violent arming of the population in Chechnya ... So, of the remaining half of the scoop, they would calmly arm everyone ...

                        Scoop (nightlight) - a family of Lepidoptera. What does Chechnya, war and so on?
                      3. Karen
                        Karen 17 January 2020 20: 59
                        -2
                        The fact that Marshal Shaposhnikov armed the Chechens for a future war is the scoop !!!
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 17 January 2020 20: 59
                  -1
                  Quote: Karen
                  by agreement with Shaposhnikov, they were divided "like brothers" from what is available in Chechnya ..

                  Shaposhnikov was dragged in vain - Grachev was already at the helm. There was already a dispute over who was to blame for the division of the warehouses.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 17 January 2020 21: 05
                    -1
                    I didn’t know about the local dispute about the division of the warehouses ... I only knew that Shaposhnikov was signing on the spot ... And for some reason I’m sure that the Shaposhnikov’s children settled after that in Florida, in the quarter, that all your stripes bought from cash for sale scoop ...
                  2. IL-64
                    IL-64 18 January 2020 12: 13
                    0
                    So, on May 28, 1992, Defense Minister Pavel Grachev sent a cipher telegram to the North Caucasus Military District, which said: “I authorize the transfer to the Chechen Republic of the availability of the 173rd Guards OTC of military equipment, weapons, property and stocks of materiel in sizes: - military equipment and weapons - 50% - ammunition - two armored kits. - engineering ammunition - 1-2%. Automotive, special equipment, property and stocks of material resources to realize at a residual value on the spot.

                    Source: How many weapons did the Chechens receive before December 1994
                    © Russian Seven russian7.ru
                  3. Karen
                    Karen 18 January 2020 12: 25
                    0
                    Quote: IL-64
                    28 May 1992 years

                    I’m talking about March 92nd.
                    _____
                    And so, thanks for covering the details.
  • Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 16 January 2020 00: 48
    +4
    An interesting car and become good. Thanks to the author!

    The way out is not very convenient, but at least protected from shelling, unlike our BMP-3.
  • g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 16 January 2020 07: 08
    0
    In OWS, in addition to machine guns with smoke, they tried to put Mk19 or Stryker?
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 16 January 2020 14: 16
      -1
      Minus - I understand this as "no, and Schaub were you very unwell, damn kigibi agent" from Israeli "partners"? Or did the keyboard break down to write an answer? laughing
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 16 January 2020 13: 16
    +3
    Yeah, the Jews are definitely every fighter on the set! Well done, they try as soon as possible to protect their fighters. On the armor, they are unlikely to allow their fighters to move ... And what about us?!? ..

    The car is interesting, the test score good
  • iouris
    iouris 16 January 2020 13: 19
    0
    Are these former Chinese tanks?
  • gulliver
    gulliver 16 January 2020 17: 20
    +1
    Quote: prodi
    our generals, as the topic of forcing obstacles hurt in WWII, they still will not depart

    The main thing of the river and the women still give birth to soldiers! sad
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 16 January 2020 19: 22
      -2
      Quote: gulliver
      The main thing of the river and the women still give birth to soldiers!

      Yes, we will not have a new battle of Stalingrad, do not worry about the loss of our soldiers, they will not burn in armored personnel carriers. We are already at a different technological level of armaments to admire Israeli homemade products, which they consider to be the brilliance of military thought, and we consider it to be ordinary ... because equipment with more than forty tons requires a completely different approach. Learn better the Syrian experience - are there many of our soldiers in the APC or the BMP burned out?
  • Cats
    Cats 16 January 2020 22: 34
    -1
    Having so many captured tanks, it’s strange that the Israelis didn’t think of creating their own analogue of BMPT or BMOP (as you like).
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 17 January 2020 12: 32
      -3
      Quote: Cats
      Having so many captured tanks, it’s strange that the Israelis didn’t think of creating their own analogue of BMPT or BMOP (as you like).

      All of Israel’s military programs by and large are just PR and stupid money laundering, so they didn’t create anything serious there, and still cannot create it, no matter how they present themselves here. When it came to the Americans, they sent them away and began to supply them with the money that Congress allocated to them. And this is well noticeable in the fleet of the Israeli Air Force or air defense systems and other weapons.
      1. indy424
        indy424 29 January 2020 15: 11
        -1
        you do not worry so much. you are absolutely right. all sawed up except for machine guns, machine guns and other small arms. modern types of anti-tank weapons, such as Matador, Spike and some others, drones from the battalion level to heavy Heron Mk2 and others, most of the modern air defense systems, tanks and those same "intend", and promising "Eitan", optics and thermal imagers, collimators, and a lot more. but why spoil a good story about sawbabl with facts?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 30 January 2020 11: 48
          -1
          Quote: indy424
          except machine guns, machine guns and other small arms.

          Such weapons are being created in all countries, and apart from the "Uzi" Israeli designers have not created anything interesting. And even then the "Uzi" is inappropriate for motorized rifle units, but more suitable for special services.
          Quote: indy424
          modern types of anti-tank weapons, such as Matador, Spike

          This is done in many countries of the world - how did you want to surprise, maybe deliveries to the world market?
          Quote: indy424
          drones from battalion level to heavy Heron MK2

          A good replacement for Kfiram - "progress" is evident, it is immediately clear that the aviation programs have failed.
          Quote: indy424
          most of the modern air defense,

          Are the "Patriots" already Israeli?
          Quote: indy424
          tanks and those same "intend",

          Tell this to those who do not understand what tanks are and what they should be in the modern world. Who buys tanks from Israel - tell us more ...
          Quote: indy424
          and a whole bunch of everything.

          We know your "heap" - you learned to PR a long time ago, but you have not learned how to create world-class military equipment, despite the fact that many designers and developers came from the USSR, whom the locals did not allow much to develop.
          Quote: indy424
          but why spoil the facts about the sawbubble with facts?

          So your prime minister, like the current one, is constantly undergoing criminal charges, and all of them turn out to be "honest" people - isn't it funny yourself?
    2. indy424
      indy424 29 January 2020 15: 04
      0
      of course created. Namer (Tiger), based on the Merkava.
  • 52
    52 22 January 2020 06: 47
    0
    Good article.
  • Jarserge
    Jarserge 13 February 2020 16: 10
    0
    Here is an example, the use of old cars, modernization and care for their infantry.
  • Exhausted Dad
    Exhausted Dad 14 February 2020 22: 26
    0
    Good deal. The Israelis gave out all the secrets in the comments, and one even with photos