Five oddities with a blow to the Ukrainian "Boeing" in Iran

169

An investigation into the circumstances of the strike on the Ukrainian Boeing in the sky over Iran is ongoing. Despite the recognition of the Iranian authorities in an accidental missile strike on the plane, this version also raises very great doubts, even among experts.

Recall that on January 8, 2020 the plane of Ukraine’s International Airlines crashed about 3 minutes after departure from Tehran Airport. All 167 passengers and 9 crew members on board were killed. Almost immediately, representatives of Ukraine issued a statement in which they excluded the possibility of a version of the attack. However, Kiev soon abandoned the initial words and stated that the plane could have been shot down by a rocket.



The recognition of the Iranian authorities that the Ukrainian airliner was indeed shot down by an Iranian missile by mistake, and this was due to US aggressive actions in neighboring Iraq, was sensational, in connection with which the Iranian air defense quickly responded to any air object. But it is this recognition that allows us to pay attention to a number of oddities associated with the disaster.

Iran's swift repentance


History He knows many examples when, in similar situations, countries have not admitted for years that they shot down an airplane. For example, it is still unknown who shot down the Malaysian Boeing in the sky over the Donbass. Iran did not need to refuse to participate in the crash of the liner, especially since initially no one accused Tehran of what happened. Too fast admission of guilt, which is not at all in the traditions of relations between East and West, makes you think that Iran could specifically assume responsibility - perhaps in order to avoid big problems, and possibly for some other purpose.

Video too sharp


A video appeared on Twitter published by a certain Nariman Garib, an activist of Iranian descent. The world media immediately eagerly picked up the video and replicated it. On the frames - the flight of an airplane, a bright flash and the sound of an explosion. Everything was shot very clearly, as if specifically to then present the record as evidence of Iran’s guilt. But it is precisely the moment of the shooting and the astounding composure of the host, who was virtually unemotional and was almost not surprised at the missile getting into the plane, and it makes you think about oddities.

The strange behavior of the Canadian intelligence


The version that the liner was shot down by a rocket was voiced by Canada, which does not have the means of space intelligence and, accordingly, the ability to determine the exact causes of the disaster. Moreover, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau himself first spoke of a technical malfunction as the main reason for what happened. But the very next day, the Canadian intelligence services sharply “changed their shoes”, and it was after Donald Trump spoke about disbelief in the technical reasons for the crash of the plane. Without exception, all Canadian media reporting on a “technical error” unanimously declared a “downed plane” with the usual addition “with a high degree of probability”.

January 12 rally


Four days after the tragedy, on January 12, several hundred Iranian students gather at the corps of Amir Kabir University in Tehran. They hold a rally in memory of the dead passengers of the Ukrainian liner and at the same time defiantly burn the portrait of General Kassem Suleimani, who was killed by the Americans. Where is the logic here is not very clear. Suleymani at the time of the fall of the liner was already in another world. There are calls for the resignation of the government and even for "abandoning the Ayatollah regime." Of course, such a rally is far from the Ukrainian Maidan, but its very fact is very revealing.

Black boxes


"Black Boxes" from the crashed plane are being transferred to France for decryption. As a reason, it was stated that Iran "has no opportunity to decrypt flight recorders of American liners." Not to invite French specialists, but to hand over the "black boxes" to France. The strange thing is that if the recognition of an unintentional strike has taken place, then why so much attention is paid to decoding the flight recorders, when much more attention should be paid to the actions of calculating the air defense system and its coordination with the services of Imam Khomeini airport.

Naturally, the position of Ukraine is also “impressive”, where they immediately began looking for a Russian trace in the tragedy. In particular, Kiev accused Russia of arming the Iranian regime and, therefore, was involved in the plane crash.

In general, there are still more inconsistencies than clarity in a strange case. And most importantly - although the airliner could indeed be shot down by Iranian air defense systems, it is possible that some external forces influenced the air defense system of the Islamic republic. The United States has the technical capabilities for such an impact, and the general informational background of the event leaves no doubt that the death of the liner was least beneficial to the Iranian leadership.
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  1. -29
    14 January 2020 09: 35
    it is possible that some external forces influenced the air defense system of the Islamic republic. The United States has the technical capabilities for such an impact,
    fool Rave. Rather, the Russian Federation, our systems, need to choose the words "better", why so rude. Who do you work for, Dunkel?
    1. +23
      14 January 2020 09: 40
      And I believe that if it weren’t for the most part that Iranians were flying and the plane wasn’t Ukrainian, then this disaster would not have happened!
      1. -1
        14 January 2020 09: 45
        And the fact that half were "Canadians"? By the way, there "simultaneously" took off 3 more planes, they had nothing, for this.
        1. +3
          14 January 2020 09: 47
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          And the fact that half were "Canadians"?

          Well, not the Americans!
          1. -3
            14 January 2020 09: 56
            And most importantly - although the airliner could indeed be shot down by Iranian air defense systems, it is possible that some external forces influenced the air defense system of the Islamic republic.
            Hooray, another conspiracy theory.

            What surprises me is one thing - how did it happen in Russia that the sign of wisdom and insight was not the ability to rely on clear logic and methodically assessed empirical data, but the ability to discern a double, triple or quadruple bottom in anything, dissolve conspiracy theories, and ultimately give rise to an invented, intricate world raping Occam's razor in a particularly perverse form?
            1. +6
              14 January 2020 10: 11
              What surprises me is one thing: how did it happen in Russia that the signs of wisdom and insight were not the ability to rely on logic and facts, and the ability to discern a double or triple bottom in anything, to dissolve conspiracy theories, and ultimately give rise to a fictitious intricate world that rapes Occam’s razor in especially perverted form?

              I also propose (and maybe to a greater extent) to attend to the issue of the proximity of Occam's razor and "highley like"
              1. -9
                14 January 2020 10: 30
                Quote: andranick
                I also propose (and maybe to a greater extent) to attend to the issue of the proximity of Occam's razor and "highley like"
                It would also be nice if someone could explain why he does not like the phrase "high-level like" (it is also "with a high degree of probability"). In my opinion, a person familiar with the principles of proposing and testing hypotheses, this is a normal correct formulation. Many people confuse the correctness of the wording with the lack of confidence in their own words.
                1. +9
                  14 January 2020 10: 43
                  Many change shoes in the jump :)
                  not the ability to rely on logic and facts, and the ability to discern a double or triple bottom in anything, dissolve conspiracy theories and ultimately give rise to a fictitious intricate world

                  It would also be nice if someone could explain why he doesn't like the wording "highley like" .... this is a normal correct wording


                  It's just that the Anglo-Saxon wording "hailey like", used (with or without), has led to very real and far from positive consequences for many peoples. I hope that you, being familiar with the principles of proposing and testing hypotheses, will be able to hypothesize why this is happening and where they put this razor to Occam.
                  1. -6
                    14 January 2020 10: 53
                    Quote: andranick
                    It's just that the Anglo-Saxon wording "hailey like", used (with or without), has led to very real and far from positive consequences for many peoples. I hope that you, being familiar with the principles of hypothesis promotion and testing, will be able to put forward a hypothesis why this is happening
                    My hypothesis: you are making a claim to the wording "highley like", although in reality you have a claim not to the wording "highlighted like", but to something else. It would be nice for everyone if you could formulate your claims as clearly as possible based on the picture of reality, and not on the emotional mindless media viruses from the media.
                    1. +10
                      14 January 2020 11: 35
                      The claim on your opponent's wording is pretty clear. It consists in the fact that this formulation, put forward in the process of constructing the HYPOTHESIS, suddenly began to be used as a basis for the actions taken, that is, not even theories are based on it, but just some "truths", as if the hypothesis suddenly became equal to the fact.
                      The claim is very clear, but your answers to it are very muddy. Interesting, right?
                      1. -4
                        14 January 2020 14: 35
                        Quote: Mikhail3
                        This formulation, put forward in the process of constructing a HYPOTHESIS, suddenly began to be used as a basis for the actions taken, that is, not even theories are based on it, but some "truths", as if the hypothesis suddenly became equal to the fact.
                        Any statement is a hypothesis, and some probabilistic characteristic can be attributed to it, which is always greater than 0 and less than 1. And the court verdict that has come into force is a hypothesis - the probability that it is true is less than 1. Since people have to somehow live with it and make decisions, then, depending on the situation, they accept some hypothesis as a working model of reality, and act in accordance with it. When you leave the house in the morning, you do not put a helmet on your head, although, strictly speaking, the probability of someone dropping a brick from the roof on your head is non-zero. It is this acceptable measure of probability that is indicated in the formulation "highlighted like". Hailey like that a brick won't fall on my head, so I won't wear a helmet every day. But a working hypothesis is still a hypothesis, and always will be. This is emphasized even in the legal formulations "beyound a reasonble doubt" and "balance of probabilities" with which judgments are issued, which mean that the evidence is true with some reasonable degree of probability.
                      2. +7
                        14 January 2020 14: 52
                        Sir, it’s so nice to read all this ... As if to me again, as at the institute, instead of answering, they are trying to soar my brains with sci-fi nonsense. You see, if ANY statement can be accepted on a par with all others, without giving any EVIDENCE, then you can go outside in a helmet, this is equivalent to going out without it, according to your calculations.
                        That is the question, yes, all statements have a probabilistic spread. Only now, decisions were made beforehand based on the fact that evidence was enclosed under the statement in order to increase the probability characteristics to the level where it is already possible to make an informed decision. For example, if a brick wall is being repaired above your porch (a proven fact), then a helmet should be worn, right?
                        And the current problem is that this process was suddenly ruled out. Someone says - "Russia (apparently all at once) poisoned the Skripals!" and no evidence is needed. The probabilistic characteristic of an unsubstantiated statement is already accepted at 100%. About that and speech, can you imagine ?!
                        However, you already understand all this. Not ashamed?
                      3. -7
                        14 January 2020 15: 10
                        Quote: Mikhail3
                        And the current problem is that this process was suddenly ruled out.
                        The problem is that he was not excluded. He was yelled and screamed using the very methods where "highley like" is such a very funny joke that you need to laugh at the whole TV. No one remembers what the British showed, for example, passports differing in one number. They also forgot that they showed footage from the streets, where tourists came twice in three days to see the spire, leaving in the opposite direction from the spire, without visiting anything else. In what direction does this all change the probabilistic characteristics of hypotheses? And Russia? She showed two unconventional fitness trainers carrying nonsense, and did not detain them at least for the duration of the trial, as the Iranians are now arresting those involved in the downed Boeing, but instantly forgot about their existence. In what direction does this change the probabilistic characteristics of hypotheses?
                      4. +8
                        14 January 2020 16: 55
                        Ep! The two of them applied for a passport! They have common business, so they filed it together, and their applications were examined at once, and they issued passports one after another! Well, all, the villainy is practically proved, it is necessary what shipien are terrible! Two days came to one place ... That's it. Only the NKVD killers do this !! What really is not ashamed? Darling, the inspection of the place of the act is not performed by the performers, so that, suddenly, they could not be sewn to the case. This makes the support team, the alphabet, even for thieves. 21st century in the yard.
                        Your level for the audience of "Rain", and laughter and sin ...
                      5. -10
                        14 January 2020 17: 20
                        And all this behavior completely unsuspecting and normal for foreign trips, of course, coincided with the location of Skripal and the time of his poisoning, purely by accident, as the technical problems of the Boeing 737 accidentally coincided with the day of the missile attack and the territory of the country from where the attack was made. Somewhere here we have to make an assumption about a very unlikely coincidence that moves the probabilistic characteristics of hypotheses. You can continue to insist that these are all coincidences. Using the Boeing 737 as an example, it was clearly visible how inadequate a picture of the world this gives, and three days have not passed.
                      6. +9
                        15 January 2020 09: 16
                        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                        And all this is completely unsuspecting and normal for overseas travel behavior

                        Yes, it's completely unsuspecting. Suddenly. The "behavior" of passports is an indecent anecdote in general. I would have looked at how you present this rotten stuff in a London court. There would be people on the floor crawling with laughter ... And the guys came to the same place twice. How strange that they are not local and only knew one dealer ...
                        You were definitely thrown from "Dozhd". Of course, the audience there is looking forward to when all of us who were taught in the USSR take a break. Then your "argumentation" among young people (whose brains are amputated in the network even before reaching the age of 13) will pass with a bang ...
                      7. -7
                        15 January 2020 13: 05
                        Continue to explain everything in a row with pure coincidences, even when coincidences overlapping give as a result a probability tending to zero - this is not education, but an attempt to pass off wishful thinking. I have nothing more to add.
                      8. +1
                        15 January 2020 13: 37
                        Coincidence of what with what ?! These people walked along the same streets as Squeaked. It's all. What a coincidence, what a childhood ...
                      9. +2
                        15 January 2020 16: 10
                        Everything expressed by you, Vyacheslav Viktorovich, is exactly your case.
                      10. 0
                        15 January 2020 11: 59
                        What kind of guys are you talking about? Petrova with Boshirov or about Chepiga with Mishkin?
                      11. +3
                        16 January 2020 07: 14
                        My wife and my passports also differ in one number and name with a middle name !!! Everything else is exactly the same !!!! Even the last name !!!! And what? Are we spies of the GRU ?! Two friends applied for passports and got them together !!! And all the rest of your arguments in the toilet ......
                      12. 0
                        15 January 2020 11: 08
                        Sir, if we consider this global problem from the point of view of banal erudition, then each clearly expressed individual of critical, metaphysical abstraction cannot ignore the criterion of sentimentality built on the basis of utopian subjectivity ...
                    2. +1
                      14 January 2020 11: 44
                      Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                      It would be nice for everyone if you could formulate your claims as clearly as possible based on a picture of reality

                      But there is only one reality, the plane is shot down.
                2. +5
                  14 January 2020 12: 10
                  Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                  than he does not like the wording "highlighted like" (it is also with a "high degree of probability"). In my opinion, a person familiar with the principles of proposing and testing hypotheses, this is a normal correct formulation. Many people confuse the correctness of the wording with the lack of confidence in their own words.

                  The fact that specific convictions are passed on the basis of hypotheses "with a high degree of probability" are also "sanctions." That is, 100% of evidence of guilt is no longer needed for a conviction, the "presumption of innocence" is on the side.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. +3
                  14 January 2020 14: 37
                  In jurisprudence there is no such thing as "highly probable".
                  There are versions and further proven and / or unproven versions. It's all.
                  Politicians are certainly not lawyers and can blurt out something like that. But then the phrase "highley like" must be preceded by at least some intelligible evidence for lawyers. Inche this is called an unfounded accusation.
                  1. -6
                    14 January 2020 14: 55
                    Wrote above. The verdict of the court is exactly the same "highlighted". Only pronounced a little longer - "beyond a reasonable doubt", "beyond a reasonable doubt".
                5. +1
                  20 January 2020 22: 37
                  A hypothesis is a statement that requires proof. Using a hypothesis as an argument is a sign of a lack of evidence.
                  1. 0
                    21 January 2020 07: 25
                    Absolutely reliable knowledge does not exist; all judgments are hypotheses. Evidence only changes the degree of their credibility.
              2. -5
                14 January 2020 12: 34
                Does Occam shave? This is a woman. :)
            2. -4
              14 January 2020 11: 26
              There is a saying on this subject .... in the wrong eye ....
            3. 0
              14 January 2020 11: 45
              Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

              Only one thing surprises me - how did it happen in Russia that the sign of wisdom and insight was not the ability to rely on clear logic and methodically

              Well, show us your clear logic. Do you believe in the idiocy of Iranian air defense? I'm somehow not very. Ku will sell? - the wise used to say. Does Iran need it? And the mattresses? - Very much!
              In a word - wait, sir, your clear logic.
              But, it seems to me, it will be based on the idiocy of air defense specialists.
              1. +2
                14 January 2020 14: 45
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Well, show us your clear logic.
                I showed my clear logic on the first day of the disaster, when most of the distinguished commentators vied with each other to argue that Iran did not bring down the Boeing, and in general for the Boeing to fall spontaneously is absolutely normal, and therefore it was so. I said that the Iranians shot down by mistake, because the liners fly tens of thousands of 365 days a year, beat for technical reasons / pilot error / and so on 1-2 times a year, and it is unbelievable that the technical reasons coincided with the day of the missile attack and with the territory of the country that launched the missile attack. But people tend to make mistakes, and to all, and not just idiots. The statement that someone’s mistake means idiocy is nothing more than https://ru.rationalwiki.org/wiki/About the absurdity

                I continue to stick with this version. So far, my logic has passed the test of time, unlike.
                1. -3
                  14 January 2020 15: 10
                  Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                  I continue to stick with this version.

                  Which one? The one that the Air Defense Forces are not and --- you, but someone "threw a felt boot on the remote control"?
                  But, due to the fact that they do not wear boots lol , we can assume that this was a deliberate act. Who ordered?
                  1. -1
                    14 January 2020 15: 32
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    it can be assumed that this was a deliberate act
                    You have now broken Occam’s razor, although this probably doesn’t really bother you. But I am a simple person, I do not introduce new entities until a circumstance is discovered that will conflict with the past explanation that does not produce new entities.
            4. +1
              14 January 2020 13: 06
              Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
              And most importantly - although the airliner could indeed be shot down by Iranian air defense systems, it is possible that some external forces influenced the air defense system of the Islamic republic.
              Hooray, another conspiracy theory.

              What surprises me is one thing - how did it happen in Russia that the sign of wisdom and insight was not the ability to rely on clear logic and methodically assessed empirical data, but the ability to discern a double, triple or quadruple bottom in anything, dissolve conspiracy theories, and ultimately give rise to an invented, intricate world raping Occam's razor in a particularly perverse form?

              Do not breed, but simply follow another adage "who benefits from it." And Occam's razor does not work in geopolitics.
              1. -2
                14 January 2020 14: 50
                Quote: Usher
                Do not breed, but simply follow another adage "who benefits from it."
                This is a good rule of thumb, but it does not take into account that people are mistakenly able to do things that are completely unprofitable for them.

                Quote: Usher
                And Occam’s razor doesn’t work in geopolitics.
                This only proves that "geopolitics" is a pseudoscience.
            5. +3
              14 January 2020 14: 09
              Vyacheslav Viktorovich (Vyacheslav) Today, 09:56
              rely on clear logic and methodically evaluated empirical data

              are you able to understand the "logic" of the fall of the Ukrainian liner in Tehran from your couch, and even more so do you have the "empirical data" that you are going to methodically evaluate? belay
              1. -1
                14 January 2020 15: 23
                Yes. I put forward from my couch (on the grounds which I moderately described in detail) the version that the Boeing was shot down by Iranian air defense (by mistake), while it was argued here that the Boeing fell by itself, and it couldn’t be otherwise, and the United States now hangs all the dogs on Iran for technical problems. As you can see, it turns out relatively well. If this seems to you something banal and obvious, then you simply did not sit here for three days between the moments of the fall of the Boeing and the statement of Iran.
                1. +2
                  15 January 2020 05: 40
                  I put forward from my couch (on the grounds which I moderately described in detail) the version that the Boeing shot down Iranian air defense (by mistake)

                  ahh, but where did they get the "empirical data"? From the ceiling? Or were the RPs themselves in the PIU at the local ADP, KDP or CCU? Do you have data from the ICO? Then do not be stingy - make it public.
                  1. -3
                    15 January 2020 06: 08
                    "Empirical data" only means "data based on experience", that is, the source of which is reality, and not speculation, not opinions passed off as facts, and so on.

                    I have as much data from all these abbreviations that you have listed as everyone, that is, zero. This does not mean that I cannot see, for example, how many planes fly daily, how many disasters happen, and use this information for probability estimates. The fact that such data is readily available does not reduce their value for analysis.

                    Analytical abilities are determined not by how much information the reasoner has access to (everyone can make a correct conclusion, having the entirety of the information), but by how accurately he gives assessments, correctly using incomplete information.
                    1. +2
                      15 January 2020 11: 44
                      "Empirical data" only means "data based on experience", that is, the source of which is reality, and not speculation, not opinions passed off as facts, and so on.

                      that's it. Empirical (I see you like to use this word) for analysis can only be data received from the IKO plus the crew of the RP (flight manager) or his deputies in the hydraulic fracturing (flight management group). In military aviation, these include RBZ and RDZ (near and far zone), RPZ (landing zone), OBU - combat control, etc. And in civil aviation, this function is performed by the senior dispatcher and dispatcher.
                      In addition, the facts / arguments are the data obtained from the BUR (on-board recording devices), the conclusions of the examinations of materials scientists, chemists, aerodynamic operators, engine operators, etc.
                      Everything else is finger-scan: versions, speculation, speculation.
                      Therefore, there is no need to talk about the ability to logic and the availability of data.
                      1. -1
                        15 January 2020 12: 44
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        Therefore, there is no need to talk about the ability to logic and the availability of data.
                        For me, the criterion of truth is practice. The assessment, confirmed in practice subsequently, means the presence of an adequate picture of the world. Incorrect assessment or refusal to give an assessment means the lack of an adequate picture of the world. In science, this principle is known as https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanatory_theory_theory
                      2. 0
                        16 January 2020 05: 01
                        For me, the criterion of truth is practice.

                        I have devoted almost 35 years of my life to long-range aviation. And then I do not go with statements about "practice" and "empirical data". What do you have in your luggage from "practice"?
                      3. 0
                        16 January 2020 06: 30
                        I wrote in the previous answer - practice works as a criterion, when after some time it confirms or refutes a previously given assessment. This is the meaning of the expression "practice is the criterion of truth." And what you are talking about is called https://ru.rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
                      4. -1
                        16 January 2020 13: 50
                        I wrote in a previous answer - practice works as a criterion

                        WHAT IS THE PRACTICE? Are you doing verbiage? I specifically asked you: "Are you an active air traffic controller? Are you a flight director? Are you an OBU officer? If not, if all your" data "is taken out of your head or pulled from the ceiling - why the hell are you here with a thoughtful mine talking about some kind of your ability to operate with facts and draw a conclusion based on them? Your statements were and will be VERSION, because such a narrow circle of persons owns the detailed information that you and your sofa definitely don’t get into it. On sim hi
                      5. -1
                        16 January 2020 13: 58
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        Your statements have been and will be VERSION
                        Thank you for report. I wrote about this ten more comments ago:

                        Quote: Ka-52
                        what the hell are you talking with a thoughtful mine about some sort of your ability to operate on facts and draw conclusions from them?
                        Wrote about this ten comments ago:
            6. +2
              14 January 2020 21: 44
              Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
              that the sign of wisdom and insight was not the ability to rely on clear logic and methodically evaluated empirical data,

              Here explain to us who read this article, where is the logic? In the behavior of Iran, in the behavior of Canada and the USA, in the behavior of Ukraine? Or do you think the logic is that all the Persians are bloodthirsty villains and they sleep and see how more people would be killed? Then why didn’t they bring down all the planes? Or would you just come to the airport and kill everyone? And cheap and cheerful?
              1. -2
                14 January 2020 22: 03
                The logic is that it is human nature to make mistakes. Above in this thread I answered in more detail.
            7. 0
              15 January 2020 11: 12
              It is certainly true, not just like that, but not only that they say
              they say, but still of course, here for every word do not take it, then
              no more than if, but by the way, I agree with you.
            8. +1
              19 January 2020 09: 58
              "... raping Occam's razor in a particularly perverted form?" (c)
              Bravo! This is a masterpiece - how can I imagine raping a razor ... how terrible it is to live! Ockham clearly did not imagine such a use of his razor! laughing
          2. +6
            14 January 2020 11: 46
            Quote: SRC P-15
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            And the fact that half were "Canadians"?

            Well, not the Americans!

            Here it is probably the dog and rummaged. The plane took off with an hour's delay, allegedly due to a problem with baggage loading. A good half of Canadians (those still friends of Iran) among whom, I suppose, were not only music teachers or botanists studying the flora and fauna of Iran, but also those who are very interested in Iran's nuclear topics and something "interesting" could get on board with them on board aircraft. I do not know how the crew is inspected before departure from the international airport (except for medical examination), but given that the crew was Ukrainian, it is possible that "this something" got on board with their participation, while the luggage of some Canadian was being checked at the airport ... If this "something" was fundamentally important, then it is clear that Iran could not allow "it" to leave its territory on a departing plane and decided the issue the way it decided and took responsibility for what happened. Probably Canadian intelligence services for this reason have demonstrated excessive activity and noise on the air, because the bummer happened when the case was practically implemented. Well, this is so, as a version ... winked
            1. 0
              14 January 2020 12: 36
              The key question is, why did they take it? You answer this. There are few versions of many answers
              1. +6
                14 January 2020 13: 17
                Quote: nznz
                The key question is, why did they take it? You answer this. There are few versions of many answers

                Responsibility for flight safety still lies with Iran, since it is its sky. And actually, one cannot exclude some sort of agreement between the special services of the countries concerned, where, in exchange for recognition, the other side also incurs certain obligations. They still won’t tell us about it, but there are really a lot of oddities.
                1. +1
                  14 January 2020 16: 02
                  Quote: Nyrobsky
                  ... why did they confess?

                  talk about 3-day negotiations between Iranians and π-ndos in Switzerland ... How Iran began to energetically "sprinkle ashes on its head" testifies that it was almost promised "mountains of gold" for this ...
            2. 0
              14 January 2020 13: 17
              Not very version, because could cheat on the plane and / or prevent the take-off.
            3. -2
              14 January 2020 16: 29
              Yes, there were also "botanists" from Germany and England. And the Teams are big 76, 10, 10. Everything is fine, but where is the logic, brother. Iran overtook the steam engine with its yell, it's me! Terrorists are not state-controlled enemies of mankind; they could turn the arrows at them. And the photo of the fairing from the "Thor" under the fence of the "old friend" is ridiculous. I do not believe! Iran did not behave professionally, for the East.
              The Boeing could also be overwhelmed by the Americans, from an airplane or a missile launcher; range will allow them, why, and I know? For example, punish Canada. After the assassination of Suleimani, they were flushed from Iraq.
        2. +7
          14 January 2020 09: 58
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          And the fact that half were "Canadians"?

          What canadians are they

          90% of those on board are Iranians with passports of Iran and other countries

          They flew home to Iran to visit relatives
          1. -2
            14 January 2020 11: 45
            Quote: Santa Fe
            They flew home to Iran to visit relatives

            And in this, that is.
        3. 0
          14 January 2020 11: 39
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          And the fact that half were "Canadians"?

          Canadian citizens of Iranian descent.
        4. 0
          14 January 2020 21: 45
          Three Canadians, not half. Three more British. Five or six Ukrainians. The rest are Iranians.
          Something like this ...
      2. +8
        14 January 2020 10: 06
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        And I believe that if it weren’t for the most part that Iranians were flying and the plane wasn’t Ukrainian, then this disaster would not have happened!

        without a doubt, they chose the most "defenseless" plane and flight in terms of consequences. If the shtatovskiy was flying, nothing would have happened.
        There is a version. that they shot down especially for sweeps in the IRGC: the military will try to limit the autonomy and autocracy of the IRGC. This is confirmed by unverified data on the allegedly ongoing "arrests of dozens of officers" of the Guard Corps after this tragedy.
        1. +3
          14 January 2020 10: 07
          Quote: Silvestr
          without a doubt, they chose the most "defenseless" plane and flight in terms of consequences. If the shtatovskiy was flying, nothing would have happened.

          Totally agree with you! hi
          1. +7
            14 January 2020 10: 12
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            Totally agree with you!

            the logic of the following events shows that all this is not an accident and the Iranian authorities could very well win! For example, landing Rust in Red Square! hi
            1. +1
              14 January 2020 11: 44
              Just a series of inconsistencies once leads to a pattern, and then the civilian side is shot down. what And inconsistencies after the crash - this is more of an emotion. And in this situation, Iran did the right thing, that he quickly admitted his guilt. This immediately cut off the excess part of emotions and enabled experts to soberly investigate. Including Ukrainian.
            2. -1
              14 January 2020 11: 47
              Quote: Silvestr
              For example, landing Rust in Red Square!

              More likely to be YES.
              1. -1
                14 January 2020 12: 38
                Here is the trajectory of the plane. He turned almost 180 degrees before falling. Why? Perhaps there was a fire in the engine and the plane changed course to return to the airport and, at the same time, went to a military base .... Can anyone have any more options?
                1. +1
                  14 January 2020 13: 50
                  Quote: Snail N9
                  Perhaps there was a fire in the engine and the plane changed course to return to the airport and went, at the same time, to a military base.

                  And at the same time did not say a word on the air.
      3. +1
        14 January 2020 13: 39
        That seems to be true. Ukraine, Malaysia are harmless victims.
    2. 0
      14 January 2020 15: 52
      Almost everyone has such capabilities to suppress the aircraft ADS-B signal. It is enough to "make some noise" at a frequency of 1090 MHz near the "Torah" position and the guidance operator will be misled about the target's belonging to "civil aviation".
  2. +6
    14 January 2020 09: 35
    Too often a bunch of downed liner + Ukraine appears.
  3. +6
    14 January 2020 09: 37
    If we recall from history examples where a downed plane abruptly changed the political situation, it is quite possible that it was framed.
  4. 0
    14 January 2020 09: 44
    Ours (or the Syrians) also had a similar case. During the attack, the Israelis shot down their plane. In theory, after such cases, organizational conclusions should follow for the non-repetition of such situations. It is interesting to know the opinion of professionals in this matter. Is a warning system for such situations possible or is the air defense system itself simply programmed for such errors and will they be repeated again?
    1. +1
      14 January 2020 09: 57
      There are two options: not cheap and controversial.
      1. Not cheap. Introduce civil interrogators into military systems and receive concomitant haemorrhoids in the form of support for authorized corridors and current flights.
      2. Controversial. Combine civil and military systems into one network. This may affect the privacy regime at military facilities.
  5. +27
    14 January 2020 09: 45
    But it is precisely the moment of the shooting and the astounding composure of the host, who was practically unemotional and was almost not surprised at the missile getting into the plane, and it makes you wonder from strange things.

    I mentioned it yesterday, there are no random people on the roof of the house at 6-00 in the morning. A plane or something like that was waiting.
    With regards to "Ukrainian" - so a country without weight and its own opinion, it will not kick, again, the flight is the cheapest, passengers are not lords and peers, it's not a pity. When an aircraft is shot down over Dondass, a similar pattern is observed. Malaysia - who is it and where?
    NOT accidentally shot down
    1. +8
      14 January 2020 09: 54
      Quote: Silvestr
      random people on the roof of the house at 6-00 in the morning does not happen.

      especially those who shoot the night sky on my phone, I have observed meteors many times, but have never been able to capture the moment the "stars" fall
    2. +9
      14 January 2020 10: 41
      "I mentioned this yesterday, there are no random people on the roof of the house at 6-00 in the morning. The plane or something like that was waiting.", and the American satellite flew by purely by chance at that moment.
      1. +1
        14 January 2020 15: 50
        Quote: Strashila
        and the American satellite flew by accident at that moment.
        This is a satellite warning of a missile attack, it would be very strange if he needed to fly to an enemy rocket to work before it was launched.
    3. +2
      14 January 2020 10: 42
      In principle, this point can be explained: those who shot down for the report filmed how they shot down an American rocket
    4. 0
      14 January 2020 13: 13
      Everything is simpler here. Iran expected a retaliatory strike after missiles were fired at Iraq. Here's one and waited for the type "his own director." And remember the crash of Tu154 in Sochi, there was also a mobile video of the night sky. No "conspiracy theories" are needed here, and admitting a tragic mistake is not a sign of weakness.
  6. +1
    14 January 2020 09: 45
    The sixth "strangeness" is that there were no anti-Russian slogans, which had repeatedly slipped in Iran earlier ...
  7. +4
    14 January 2020 09: 47
    I think the secret services of Iran and the United States have agreed. This was done in order not to create new problems for Boeing. The Boeing bankruptcy is minus 1% of the US GDP, and this, if I'm not mistaken, is 20 billion. And you need to take into account the "domino effect" that will follow. Therefore, there are no incriminating speeches from the West, etc.
    1. +2
      14 January 2020 12: 24
      Quote: BerBer
      I think the intelligence services of Iran and the United States have agreed.

      At the crash site they found the head of a rocket, almost a whole .... after its explosion!

      The BerBer version has a right to exist. All the more so if the Merikos themselves pay through Iran all the payments due to the victims and compensate Iran for reputational losses + some other "goodies".
      1. 0
        14 January 2020 12: 40
        But why should Boeing save Iran?
        1. 0
          14 January 2020 12: 42
          Quote: nznz
          But why should Boeing save Iran?

          Depends on the "buns". Everything has a price.
          1. 0
            14 January 2020 12: 44
            against the background of previous events, it’s more than strange from the enemy to want some goodies. There is something we don’t know about yet. Well, for example, a secret employee important to Amers flew this plane. But he was removed from the plane, the rest was taken over. And the States realized that this paoitet was achieved for the general of the murdered. All with their own.
            1. 0
              14 January 2020 12: 47
              Quote: nznz
              against the background of previous events, it is more than strange from the enemy to want some goodies.

              There are all sorts of cases. And the rest, maybe later, we will find out ...
            2. +2
              14 January 2020 12: 59
              The Iranians, for all their positive dispositions, do not want to fight. The population (mainly young people) looks to the "west". What is called a "revolutionary situation". Shiite radicalism, as an idea, has already bothered and the Iranian leadership understands that reforms are needed, for which there is no time. So postponing the conflict is pretty good for Iran.
    2. 0
      14 January 2020 13: 23
      ДI think the secret services of Iran and the United States have agreed. This was done in order not to create new problems for Boeing. The Boeing bankruptcy is minus 1% of the US GDP, and this, if I'm not mistaken, 20 billion. And you need to take into account the "domino effect" that will follow. Therefore, there are no incriminating speeches from the West, etc.
      What a brilliant hypothesis! Let me guess, because there were no Americans on the moon, and whatever that was discovered, they began to supply us with grain and built KamAZ. what
      1. +1
        14 January 2020 13: 40
        I agree. Seem to be. But honestly I was not thinking about that. There is still a plot with our submarine Kursk. In my opinion, the sum of 3 billion dollars sounded there. Americans, just like that, do not part with dollars. Democracy, as a national idea, is a good cover for the commercial interests of the top of the United States. And so - just traders without a conscience. It is necessary to proceed from this.
        1. +2
          14 January 2020 14: 17
          Don't bother. I already wrote once: no one wants a real war. Neither Iran, nor the United States, nor the European Union are ready "the whole world to dust." That is why the emphasis was placed on the word "accidentally". And the "top" only profit from "tension" - this is enough for new military orders.
  8. +5
    14 January 2020 09: 47
    An exchange took place, and Iran decided to release everything on the brakes, taking the blame upon itself. The operator was ready for the shooting of the Boeing, reminiscent of a shooting when the Turks shot down our sou. The main question remains how they provoked the launch of a rocket on an airplane. Maybe a signature not characteristic of the aircraft, or dancing with a transponder
  9. +1
    14 January 2020 09: 51
    oddities are much more than five and they do not begin with the "repentance" of Iran, but with the murder of Suleimani, who launched a chain of subsequent events that, as I understand it, are far from over
    ps the latest Ukrainian gallop also did not portend cardinal changes in world relations
  10. +7
    14 January 2020 09: 52
    When a person doubts, then he thinks. This is why the article is a plus.
  11. +2
    14 January 2020 09: 53
    The next provocation of the Anglo-Saxons to the BV and NE in order to exclude the influence of Iran and Russia on the processes taking place there to remove the influence of the FSA in the region, as a response to the actions of the Russian Federation in Syria and in general on the BV.
  12. +14
    14 January 2020 09: 55
    Ex-chief of the anti-aircraft missile forces Special Forces Command of the Russian Air Force Sergey Khatylev:
    "The head part of the 9M330 air defense missile system" Tor ", judging by the images published on the Web, lay almost under the plane in an exceptionally good, perfectly painted condition. Moreover, any civilian aircraft is equipped with transponders, keeps in touch with dispatchers, and the military cannot but know what kind of object it is. Since 1978, there have been seven cases of aircraft destruction by American actions. A whole technique is emerging.
    One of the first to announce a version of a missile strike on a plane in Canada, which does not have space intelligence equipment. “Only the USA and Russia have it, and everyone else has purchased information. Only we and the Americans can confirm that some actions were carried out. But we are silent! Only Americans claim. The Tor missile, which has a 12-kilometer limit of range, could fly to this plane for no longer than one second. How in one second could a satellite detect two missile launches that hit that particular plane? This causes no doubt, but stormy emotions. This is not a diversion, it is arranged to blame Iran for everything and make it confess. Perhaps the Iranians assessed the situation and went for less evil so as not to go for more. ”
    1. +4
      14 January 2020 10: 11
      And what happens? Is the plane Iranian twin towers? And whose hand? Iran or the USA? Iran demonstrated the defectiveness of the state systems, and did the states poke their nose at the imperfection of the Iranian system? In Iraq, many soldiers were bribed. Is a similar process going on in Iran? Golden donkey defeats the next country?
    2. 0
      14 January 2020 10: 14
      Quote: Silvestr
      Ex-chief of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Special Forces Command of the Russian Air Force Sergey Khatylev:


      Also an expert for me, all these statements are more like propaganda, even in the State Duma they were outraged that you are Iranians at all? we in our media otmazyvayut-otmazyvayut, and you take it and admit it (not verbatim of course, but the meaning is something like this). According to the statement of this expert, as far as I remember, there were different photos on the subject of the 9M330 missile system of the Tor air defense missile system on the network, and how reliable photographs are also a question. In any case, experts will work at the scene of the disaster, who will give an answer already by the result, and not by guessing on photos from the Internet. It also became clear with the transponder, the missile hit the cockpit, and of course that after that the signal disappeared, until that moment everything went on normally, the signal worked - there was communication with the dispatchers. Well, regarding intelligence ... the fact that Canada cooperates with the United States and receives intelligence from them. data, I think the news for no one will. And most importantly, what is the expert’s conclusion? everything is fine-tuned (s) but in fact? The IRGC shot down the plane by mistake, and therefore recognized and repented. The fact that the missiles were fired by Iran’s air defense is beyond doubt, if an American missile were found at the site of the wreckage, do you think Iran would be silent like that now? Yes, he would be the first to throw off all responsibility in the USA. And so they have nowhere to go.
      1. +7
        14 January 2020 10: 23
        Quote: Aleksandr21
        experts work at the crash site

        no doubt, but if there are no specialists in the country, then they are invited, in their case, Iran handed over the boxes to France for decryption.
        And then, don’t you find it strange to find rocket fragments in almost the same places, if not in one?


        Here is the fall territory

        and lie on the fence
        They are painfully demonstratively lying. And if they were so laid? And then who are the experts?
        1. +3
          14 January 2020 10: 41
          Quote: Silvestr
          indisputably, but if there are no specialists in the country, they are invited, in their case, Iran handed over the boxes to France for decryption.
          And then, don’t find it strange to find rocket fragments in almost the same places, if not in one


          Strangeness is present, but it does not change the overall picture. If these photos are genuine, then someone really put them like that. But this does not mean that the plane crashed for some other reason? There is a video that shows that a missile hits the plane, and traces (in other photos) of the wreckage that are characteristic of a missile entering. So the technical factor is clearly discarded here, especially since the connection with the controllers of the pilots disappeared after a missile hit (as the media write), as well as the signal from the transponder. those. if there was a problem with the engine or something else, then the pilots would clearly be able to contact the dispatcher if they were alive. Therefore, the fact that it was a rocket for me is at least obvious. Especially after the statement of Iran, before that I had sinned for the terrorist attack, but since the IRGC took responsibility and admitted a mistake, then everything fell into place. And on the topic of boxes, the Iranians tried to decrypt them, but could not, so where should they go? At the very beginning, they themselves wanted to decipher these boxes, but their qualifications and equipment do not allow them to do this.
        2. +6
          14 January 2020 10: 45
          "And if they were laid down like that?" and this is possible, the piece has a mass and had a speed, and not small in contact with the surface, but there is no groove from falling.
        3. 0
          14 January 2020 11: 13
          And again, even if we assume that all this was planned by Western countries, then why? What will it give them? Iran, and so under sanctions, Trump promised to lead new ones because of the shelling of American bases in Iraq, other countries will also join this, since not only Americans were at the bases, but very many from the international coalition (NATO countries) and it turns out that the sanctions are against In any case, Iran is leading new ones, not to mention the old ones, which they do not plan to shoot. What other versions can be? Spoil relations with Canada / Ukraine - Iran? Iranians were not friends with Canada anyway, and they would have made friends. With Ukraine, this is also not a country for the sake of which such a complicated scheme should be fenced. Therefore, I don’t see such a profit here, sanctions are already leading, relations with Canada were already so bad, with Ukraine it will deteriorate, of course, but not critically, the Iranians will pay compensation, and over time this story will be smoothed out if not forgotten. Of course, one can recall more about the protests in Iran, but it was mainly relatives and friends of the victims who went out into the street, and there were very, very few of them. So the version is also so-so .... but Iran’s air defense error, this is a very likely scenario, as they say in fear, the eyes are large, and on that day the Iranian armed forces had something to worry about.
        4. +3
          14 January 2020 11: 56
          Quote: Silvestr
          They are painfully demonstratively lying. And if they were so laid? And then who are the experts?

          But in reality this cannot be.
        5. +4
          14 January 2020 12: 30
          Quote: Silvestr
          experts work at the crash site

          .... Ukrainian, who will confirm any version indicated by him.
          and lie on the fence

          even the wheels did not bend from the explosion and fall .....
        6. +3
          14 January 2020 20: 10
          Sylvester, it’s all wrong and wrong: how could the Americans arrange this near Tehran?
      2. +1
        14 January 2020 11: 42
        Quote: Aleksandr21
        if an American rocket were found at the site of the wreckage,

        At the crash site of the Malaysian Boeing, a Ukrainian missile was discovered. So what?
    3. +2
      14 January 2020 11: 47
      Quote: Silvestr
      One of the first to announce a version of a missile strike on a plane in Canada, which does not have space intelligence equipment. “Only the USA and Russia have it, and everyone else has purchased information.

      I don't understand how space reconnaissance tools can help in determining the causes of the disaster? It seems that the satellite was confused with God in connection with the flight altitude. The only option when a satellite could help is a situation when a special reconnaissance satellite (first of all, we are talking about an optical reconnaissance satellite, to a lesser extent it could be a passive electronic reconnaissance satellite) will fly over the desired area just in those few seconds in which a catastrophic situation develops. And the lenses of his cameras will be directed just at the place of the disaster. Accordingly, the time when an intelligence satellite of any country is located above this piece of land where the plane fell is no more than 2-3 hours per day. Consequently, the probability that any of these satellites could capture the moment of the catastrophe is on the strength of the magnitude of 0,125. The satellite is an aircraft that spars with a wild speed of 7,8 km / s at an altitude of 300-400 km minimum. He does not know how to "hang" over the desired area for hours like in Hollywood films.
      The Tor missile, which has a 12-kilometer limit of range, could fly to this plane for no longer than one second.
      The fastest flying missile in the world, the 53T6 anti-missile, is able to cover 10 km in 3 seconds from the moment of launch. If SAM "Torah" flies faster, overcoming 12 km in less than a second, then I think it pulls the Nobel Prize for new types of composite solid fuels.
  13. +1
    14 January 2020 09: 55
    and the general informational background of the event leaves no doubt that the death of the liner was least beneficial to the Iranian leadership.
    Unless there is a split in this manual and some of the leaders embarked on a conspiracy with the United States and then they could be knocked down deliberately to rock and activate further the color revolution, moreover, the bulk of the passengers are Iranian students, many with Canadian citizenship and the student masses are the main force Iran’s opposition, as recent events have shown.
    The discrediting of the Iranian government is in full swing.
    1. +8
      14 January 2020 10: 10
      Quote: anjey
      ... there is a split in this guide ...

      and protect the IRGC!
      1. Sulejmani killed- here are rockets in clean land and ... all
      2. They shoot down the plane and accuse the IRGC — and Suleimani is no longer there; there is no one to protect the IRGC.
      3. Quickly admit their guilt - undoubtedly, there is an agreement with the United States and Europe, since none of them require the "blood" of Iran.
      What remains is the main thing- in exchange for WHAT the Iranians shot down a Ukrainian plane?
  14. +4
    14 January 2020 09: 55
    You need to search among those who benefit from it! In this particular case, Iran from this situation received only a bunch of problems, you can call the United States the beneficiary, but it somehow strangely subsided, Israel is quieter than water, lower than grass, even Ukraine, except for a couple of screeching squeals, was silent, in general, really some kind of strange situation!
  15. -7
    14 January 2020 10: 23
    So I understand those who drowned for Iran, that it was not he who shot down, smoothly spilled over into the evangelists of various conspiracy theories. I'll throw in one more theory, the aliens from Nubiru knocked down Boeing so that the war would start faster, they are running out of deadlines for the film "about savages from the ground", but something went wrong and the states in response to the shelling did not endure a couple of KSIR bases and the Iranians quickly recognized themselves guilty of shooting down Boeing. Trump and Ayatola know something bully
    1. -8
      14 January 2020 10: 43
      I’ll throw another theory. Boeing knocked down the Chinese they are not profitable confrontation in the Persian Gulf which entails an increase in the cost of oil. An increase in oil price of 10 bucks minus five to six yards from the Chinese economy. So they cut the Gordian knot of the growing spiral of confrontation between the United States and Iran (oil exporters), knocking down a Boeing. Similarly, the United States (at that time an oil importer), having shot down an Iranian plane, helped to end the war between Iran and Iraq and reduce the price of oil. bully You can throw a few more crazy theories.
  16. +1
    14 January 2020 10: 31
    THE CONSEQUENCE WILL BE UNDERSTANDED!
    Temper the imagination should be many ....
    1. 0
      14 January 2020 12: 33
      Quote: rocket757
      CONSEQUENCE
      request feel
      I beg of you........!!!!! lol
      1. +1
        14 January 2020 12: 40
        We will see. If there is a place to be, a tragic accident, there is no sense in hiding something.
        1. 0
          14 January 2020 12: 40
          Quote: rocket757
          We will see. If there is a place to be, a tragic accident, there is no sense in hiding something.

          Oh, I don’t know .....
          1. +1
            14 January 2020 12: 46
            I don’t know either, but I don’t want to guess at all.
            1. 0
              14 January 2020 12: 49
              Quote: rocket757
              I don’t know either, but I don’t want to guess at all.

              In the future, maybe we will find out the truth ..... or maybe not.
  17. -4
    14 January 2020 10: 35
    Iran's swift repentance
    The proprietors secured the Persians against the wall and there was no point in unlocking them further. Rocket debris, holes in the fuselage, shrapnel in the bodies, video of the rocket launch .. The Persians realized that it was cheaper to recognize the fact and pay compensation. The Russian Federation paid for the Malaysian Boeing 100 times more than any compensation and no end and edge is visible.

    Video too sharp

    Nothing too clear. Normal video. Such a sea when shooting much more emotional events.

    The strange behavior of the Canadian intelligence
    At first, they did not have information, but a day later they received this information. Nothing strange.

    January 12 rally

    Rallies were before that. At this rally, students were outraged that the people lied about the plane.

    Black boxes

    There are no necessary laboratories in Tehran, and therefore the boxes were sent abroad. Surprising France as a choice. Boeing is American and should be sent to the United States.
    1. 0
      14 January 2020 11: 32
      In France, there is a Boeing branch with a laboratory, so they sent it there
    2. 0
      14 January 2020 12: 40
      Quote: professor
      The proprietors secured the Persians against the wall and there was no point in unlocking them further.
      Like Israel in February 1973. If they hadn’t fastened, they probably would have unlocked further. As, for example, the French in the case of the SE-210 have been unlocked for 40 years.
      Quote: professor
      The Russian Federation paid for the Malaysian Boeing 100 times more than any compensation and no end and edge is visible.
      And if the Russian Federation did not shoot down the Ukrainian Boeing?
      1. -2
        14 January 2020 13: 52
        Quote: Alex_59
        Quote: professor
        The proprietors secured the Persians against the wall and there was no point in unlocking them further.
        Like Israel in February 1973. If they hadn’t fastened, they probably would have unlocked further. As, for example, the French in the case of the SE-210 have been unlocked for 40 years.

        No. Israel immediately admitted that he brought down. Moreover, he paid compensation to a hostile state.

        Quote: Alex_59
        And if the Russian Federation did not shoot down the Ukrainian Boeing?

        We heard this song.
        1. 0
          14 January 2020 13: 58
          And if the Russian Federation did not shoot down the Ukrainian Boeing?


          We heard this song.



          Why - they heard - Russia is to blame - because it is bad.
          So what?
        2. +3
          14 January 2020 14: 11
          Quote: professor
          Israel immediately admitted that he brought down

          Lies. Israel recognized three days later. lol
          Quote: professor
          Moreover, he paid compensation to a hostile state.

          But this is true. Paid.
          Quote: professor
          We heard this song.

          So we also heard. As you know, everything bad in the universe is done by "evil Ruska Ivan"
    3. +3
      14 January 2020 13: 48
      The Russian Federation paid for the Malaysian Boeing 100 times more than any compensation and no end and edge is visible.


      Listen, why aren’t they like Israel very much in BV?
      It seems to be a good country?

      Roughly the same thing - a Malaysian plane - is like an attack on a radio station in Gleivitz, arson of the Reichstag, or an incident in the Gulf of Tonkin
      Dumb setup.
      As well as the "Salisbury Incident".

      There was a game against Russia and the airliner was recorded at a cost
      something like that.
      This did not affect the sanctions.
      It was as if an explanation, but not the reason
    4. +4
      14 January 2020 13: 50
      The Russian Federation paid for the Malaysian Boeing 100 times more than any compensation and no end and edge is visible.


      professor you would not repeat the nonsense broadcast by the western yellow press
      he be there, but it's a little for cattle.
    5. +2
      14 January 2020 14: 00
      The Persians realized that it was cheaper to recognize the fact and pay compensation.


      in fact, sanctions were introduced against them
      As if already
      And as if continuous
      And they don’t care for any consequences already
      Especially the US exit from a nuclear deal

      THOSE. Iran has nothing special to lose - oil is blocked and everything is on the brink of war.
      Moreover, the US does not need any reason for attack.
    6. +3
      14 January 2020 14: 21
      The proprietors secured the Persians against the wall and there was no point in unlocking them further. Fragments of a rocket, holes in the fuselage, shrapnel in bodies, video of a rocket launch ..

      at one time, material evidence did not stop the non-brothers from rejecting the version of the defeat of flight SBI1812 by the S-200 air defense missile.
  18. +1
    14 January 2020 10: 51
    Iran acknowledged the obvious fact of launching a rocket.
    But there is no clarity of the picture of the event.
    Not the coordination of military and civil controllers?
    Failure on Ukrainian aircraft systems that turned it into an unidentified target?
    After the events of 9/11, civil liners began to be treated differently with everything.
    Therefore, we must wait for the conclusion of the decryption commission.
    What was primary.
    1. 0
      14 January 2020 13: 49
      Iran acknowledged the obvious fact of launching a rocket.
      But there is no clarity of the picture of the event.


      And we are unlikely to find out the truth
      1. +2
        14 January 2020 14: 40
        "And we are unlikely to find out the truth," the "official" version of events will be announced, and how much it will correspond to reality is an open question.
    2. +3
      14 January 2020 16: 51
      for those who are minus.
      Why "what came first" is important.
      Sentinel according to the charter a person is not touched.
      If the sentry used a weapon and someone was killed, then an investigation is being conducted on the reasons and the legitimacy of the use of weapons. It is very important how validation will be objective otherwise the consequences will be more disastrous.
      The operator of the air defense complex is exactly the same watch, he has instructions and instructions.
      Now we need to figure out how much he acted in accordance with these instructions and whether he was actually guilty.
      On the issue of catastrophic consequences.
      Everyone knows the Smolensk plane crash.
      What preceded it.
      Exactly the same situation where the aircraft commander. remained the commander to the end, made a decision and took off the plane. All remained alive.
      The result, he was punished and suspended.
      The final result, the president of Poland with his retinue was killed, the commander of the side, the rumpled experience and consequences for his predecessors, went about the high-ranking authorities.
      This is important to understand.
  19. 0
    14 January 2020 11: 38
    Rallies in Iran are different from past
    Young people demand the ayatola’s resignation; there were many students on the plane, both among Iranians and Canadians who came from Iran in fact.
    The media write that the 80-year-old Ayatola has serious health problems, and that they can really re-elect him, there is such a mechanism
    In addition, all this is on the eve of the elections to the local parliament, and the situation after the elections can change significantly
    1. 0
      15 January 2020 16: 00
      The position of the TOP MANAGER is elected; he can be replaced at any time by the COUNCIL OF EXPERTS (see. Wiki). Ayatollah has nothing to do with it.
      1. +1
        15 January 2020 17: 27
        Ayatollah is now this supreme leader, why not?
        He can be re-elected
        1. 0
          15 January 2020 18: 59
          Ayatollah (Arabic: آية الله - a sign of Allah) - the honorary titles of Shiite theologians (mujtahids) who have the right to independently make decisions on Islamic law on the basis of the Jafarite law school (madhhab) [1].
          The Council of Experts (Pers. مجلس خبرگان - Majlis-e Hebregan) is a special state body in Iran that elects the country's top leader. The Expert Council consists of 86 Mujahideen elected by the population for an eight-year term. The Council meets for two days twice a year. The Council of Experts consists of reputable Muslim lawyers, who, in accordance with Article 107 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, are responsible for determining the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic. The duration of each Council, whose members are elected by election and direct and secret ballot of the people, is eight years. The Council of Experts also announced that the number of council members should be 88 people, according to the first and second articles of the internal regulation. In accordance with the constitution, the Council of Experts is a fully elected, non-appointed body. Due to the great responsibility in the process of selecting a leader, the Council of Experts has independence that no other body possesses, and in accordance with Article 108 of the Constitution, it has the right to independent regulation so that no institution can influence this small but strategically important parliament. The council always has an urgent group to discuss leadership choices in case of unforeseen circumstances [1].
          1. +2
            15 January 2020 19: 19
            Thanks, but I know that.
            By the word ayatollah in relation to Iran, they have long meant a specific ayatollah-ayatollah Ali Khomenei
            I wrote about him.
            1. 0
              15 January 2020 20: 03
              Possible.
              In the language of this site, Ayatollah is the title.
              Supreme ruler - position.
              But probably generalize. although by and large this is not very true.
  20. +1
    14 January 2020 11: 51
    The largest version is that the one who pressed the "button" was recruited by someone. I served in the air defense 20 years ago, but even then they would have figured out where the "board" was flying from. And he flew from the center of the country.
    1. -1
      14 January 2020 12: 37
      Quote: bandabas
      recruited by someone.

      How is the "capital measure" being enforced there in Iran?
      1. 0
        17 January 2020 04: 52
        Quote: major147
        How is the "capital measure" being enforced there in Iran?

        Face in the carpet, shoot in the back of the head - like that.
        1. 0
          17 January 2020 10: 37
          Quote: Alexey LK
          Face in the carpet, shoot in the back of the head - like that.

          And it was worth going to recruitment because of this !?
  21. 0
    14 January 2020 12: 05
    Nothing will happen. Everything will remain as before.
  22. +4
    14 January 2020 13: 10
    The key question is: when did the Boeing transponder signal disappear - before the launch of the Thor rocket or after?
  23. -1
    14 January 2020 13: 58
    Iranians stupidly framed, do not go to a fortuneteller!
    1. A drone in the area of ​​flight of a Boeing
    2. Deactivation of the civilian side recognition system
    3. An incomprehensible change in the course of the Ukrainian side
    4. Small facts that in total give an interested party ... well, you understand who I am talking about;
  24. +4
    14 January 2020 14: 22
    Hmm .... I read all the comments and what interesting things I saw. Not one person who understands the essence of the issue is not present. Yesterday, discussing the destruction of this side at work, I heard from one comrade who said that he served on such a Torah that "... in the Thor system, it is impossible to shoot down a civilian side a priori, because in order to shoot it down, you need to press a button allowing a strike on a civilian side, which closed with a blister and sealed ... ". How! It follows from this that the Ukrainian plane did not have a transponder (and it was not recognized as a civilian), or the Iranians have sloppiness there as in "ruin", or indeed, as one comrade wrote in a comment, the operator was bought by an interested party.
  25. +2
    14 January 2020 15: 34
    Many commentators cite a high level of tension. It would be much easier to close all departures on this day. But this is more likely about a fire and a pump.
  26. +2
    14 January 2020 16: 13
    Can wait for the decryption of the contents of the black boxes?
  27. +2
    14 January 2020 17: 48
    Author, do you mean to say that in the case of the Ukrainian Boeing, there are not many connections?
    You listed 5 oddities, but you forgot one more and the most important thing: Iran’s interest-free openness and prompt arrest of those responsible. This is the main oddity!
  28. +1
    14 January 2020 17: 54
    Quote: Shchors take it
    Iranians stupidly framed, do not go to a fortuneteller!
    1. A drone in the area of ​​flight of a Boeing
    2. Deactivation of the civilian side recognition system
    3. An incomprehensible change in the course of the Ukrainian side
    4. Small facts that in total give an interested party ... well, you understand who I am talking about;

    You give the Iranian side a loophole to justify, but for some reason they do not see these oddities
  29. +1
    14 January 2020 20: 25
    Comrades, the author of the article probably wrote yesterday and did not yet know the latest events. In general, now the situation is developing so rapidly that just have time to read ... It would take 2-3 days to think it over. So let's not rush to conclusions
  30. +4
    14 January 2020 20: 37
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Aleksandr21
    experts work at the crash site

    no doubt, but if there are no specialists in the country, then they are invited, in their case, Iran handed over the boxes to France for decryption.
    And then, don’t you find it strange to find rocket fragments in almost the same places, if not in one?


    Here is the fall territory

    and lie on the fence
    They are painfully demonstratively lying. And if they were so laid? And then who are the experts?

    By the way, IMHO the photo of the missile warhead is clearly "left". Even if we assume that after the explosion of the warhead, this fairing remained intact, the probability of which is zero, then as a result of the fall, the planes would in any case be deformed. And then there is the impression that this particular warhead someone just "put". The question is, why?

    Quote: Alex_59
    The fastest flying missile in the world, the 53T6 anti-missile, is able to cover 10 km in 3 seconds from the moment of launch. If SAM "Torah" flies faster, overcoming 12 km in less than a second, then I think it pulls the Nobel Prize for new types of composite solid fuels.

    The missile speed of the "Tor" complex is 850 m / s. That is, 12 km (at this distance from the launcher, as they say, the Boeing was shot down, it will pass in a little more than 14 seconds.

    Quote: Alex_59
    The only option when an AES could help is a situation where a special reconnaissance satellite (first of all, an optical reconnaissance satellite, to a lesser extent it could be a passive radio reconnaissance satellite) flies over the desired area in just a few seconds, in which a catastrophic situation develops.

    As an option. With the condition that Canadians have remote sensing satellites and even an optical reconnaissance satellite, this probability theoretically exists. In addition, Americans have SPRN satellites. And the air defense system of the North American continent is the same for them - NORAD, I think that they can have access to such information
  31. +4
    15 January 2020 00: 25
    There is still such a version.
    There are no such random errors, and even so on time.

    Pro-Israel hawks in the United States understand that global power is leaving their allies - the American global hawk-haws, and that their competitors - the former superpower of world No. 1 before the Second World War - England, can seize this power.
    And Iran is pro-London, probably everyone has known this for a long time.
    Is it hard for the Israelis to stare off the shoulder like a stinger near the airport?
    What would kindle a war between Iran (London) and the United States, and that they would cause more damage to each other.
    Once, after the strike on Suleimani on January 3, a turmoil did not begin, and even the Iranians did not precisely inflict much damage with their missiles in a retaliatory "strike" on the American base.

    But here again, the Iranians quietly and peacefully took the blame on others.
    Probably not only Suleimani interfered with the Iranian special services, but also some other warriors who can now be safely dismissed because of the Iranian air defense "mistake".
    As they shot the entire top of the air defense and defense in the USSR after the disaster of the Korean Boeing near Sakhalin ... and after landing of Rust on Red Square, they also shot everyone.
    1. +1
      17 January 2020 05: 29
      But to me, here, too, a variation of "Matthias Rust" seems very likely. Only you are complicating it somehow - just organizational confusion and hassle is very useful if an air (plus space, cyberspace) strike operation on Iran is planned, you know by whom. After all, it is very similar that everything is somehow mixed up on purpose, so as not to quickly figure it out - a whole heap of facts, statements, suspicions, accusations, questions, guesses, versions, inconsistencies, etc. And the moment seems to be just such - now or never! I mean the urgency due to the upcoming elections in the United States and the fact that "Iran's creation of an atomic bomb is now a matter of several months." It is quite possible that a game is going on with certain circles in Iran itself - but rather to confuse everyone even more. Because their task is not so much to change the regime in Iran as to discard the state as such in technological development, regardless of the ruling regime. And in this mode it is even "more convenient" to hit, because he is already badly discredited. Well, I think, at the same time, they tried to "fasten" Trump to the plan, put him on the hook - after all, if he gave the go-ahead for an operation, as a result of which a passenger airliner was exposed to air defense attacks, this is essentially called complicity in the premeditated murder of civilians, and not some kind of military operation to eliminate one well-known general (the latter is just from the point of view of Trump's election as a plus).
  32. +2
    15 January 2020 09: 00
    Addition :
    1.July 3 Suleymani is killed
    2. Polish airline "LOT" on January 4 announced the termination of flights to Iran
    4. Ukrainian Boeing, flew in from London, where those. service
    5. Two engines ignited at once
    6. After the attack on Suleymani and the January 4 Iranian strike back on US bases in Iraq, 9 flights arrived at Tehran’s airport, (Where is the logic in the context, after all, we should expect the arrival of rockets, not the departure of a rocket from Tehran, especially since the planes fly out on a permanent traffic and the agreed corridor, the illumination on the radar screen is different from the flare of the rocket. (But an air defense trainee cannot confuse a retreating target (on civilian aircraft there is an AIS system that identifies the flare on the radar) with the climb to the illumination of a small dot going along the trajectory
    7. On the day of the tragedy, before the Boeing took off from Tehran Airport, they flew with an interval of 6 minutes - an Aeroflot plane and two Turkish flights
    8. If the plane had not been delayed for an hour, it would have exploded over Iraqi territory. just during the attack of US bases. The first IRGC in English was about an air-to-air attack
    9. The black boxes from the crashed Boeing are for some reason transferred to France
    The eternal question? Who benefits?
  33. -2
    15 January 2020 09: 29
    Why seek a conspiracy where all actions can be explained by the usual confusion and human stupidity.
    And Iran’s quick recognition of the downing is the result of an internal political struggle. After the assassination of the general, the positions of the Xeros weakened. So they try to reduce them even more.
    1. 0
      15 January 2020 11: 46
      In terms of nodding to confusion and chaos, this is a tracing paper from "Rust's flight" to Moscow. The only difference is that Khomeini is clearly not an analogue of Gorby, in no way pulls the role of an American mole at the helm of the country. However, this does not negate the possibility of the presence of other moles in the Iranian elite who secretly sympathize with the American Kaganate, so to speak, "tired and bought."
      1. +1
        15 January 2020 23: 44
        Gorby is not an American mole either. Perestroyka went by and large to the benefit of Russia, oddly enough. We got rid of freeloaders, low-productivity "communism", where "it is easier to screw up in a large team," because we lost the economic race back in the 60s with the same devastated post-war Japan with Europe.
        In Iran, it’s not so simple either, now there is no ideological one - the income from Iranian oil is controlled primarily by the Iranian special services, as elsewhere, however.
        And under the conditions of "sanctions", Iranian special services are best able to work secretly.
  34. 0
    15 January 2020 11: 42
    Excellent analytics on the incident! The only question is what kind of bells, for which the US grabbed Iran so much that it was forced to take the blame even faster than the traps wanted. A "polite" rocket attack on the same topic is an excuse for purely domestic Iranian consumption.
  35. 0
    15 January 2020 14: 39
    when all of us who were taught in the USSR will rest. Then your "argumentation" among young people (whose brains are amputated in the network even before reaching the age of 13) will pass with a bang ...
    How it sometimes seems true. My son was born when I was 39 ... I can not look at the school curriculum of Ukrainian schools without a shudder, there is everything except the essence and the salt of knowledge and practice. The children of plebeians do not need knowledge, and patricians will buy them in privileged schools.
  36. +1
    15 January 2020 15: 55
    For some reason, no one writes about the internal situation in Iran. I mean what is visible in reality - two branches of government: Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (spiritual power with the Government) and the IRGC. Both branches have their own Armed Forces and influence on society. Someone gravitates more towards us. It seems to me that this is Ayatollah. And then, suddenly, out of the blue in Iraq, two generals die at once - the highest leadership of the IRGC, which can influence the entire situation in the Middle East. The "retaliatory response" carried out is an already envisaged action, which was quickly neutralized by the downed Boeing, Iran's "authoritative" confession of its guilt with the further defeat of the IRGC. and the "incomprehensible" actions of Ayatollah in Gorby's stead. the betrayal of Iran at the highest level is Khamenei personally. The scheme is clear. How do you like it?
    1. 0
      17 January 2020 05: 42
      Quote: ALROSS
      The scheme is clear. How do you like it?

      The scheme is not very clear to me personally. Suleimani, one of the top leaders of the IRGC, was removed, then the IRGC inflicts a "shameful" strike-agreement, then the air defense-IRGC is substituted with a passenger liner - where is the "answer" here? It looks like a one-sided game ...
  37. +1
    15 January 2020 17: 42
    Oh Lord !!! Already, Iran itself recognized the fact of the downing, but the United States and Ukraine are to blame anyway!))) I’m laughing!
  38. 0
    15 January 2020 17: 47
    A very original version that the plane took off with an hour delay, was supposed to be at the time of the explosion in the area of ​​the Russian Navy exercises in the Black Sea, in which the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Armed Forces V.V. Putin took part. The provocation did not work, the departure was delayed by third forces. Well, the laid timer worked at the time when it worked.
  39. -2
    15 January 2020 18: 31
    Strange only in the minds of the authors of such texts
    no need to look for a black cat in a black room when she is not there
    1. 0
      16 January 2020 08: 38
      You probably do not really own information related to aircraft accidents. Sometimes the reasons are very far from the initial assumptions: life is richer than fiction.
  40. 0
    16 January 2020 00: 23
    Indeed, in this case no conspiracy theories are needed. Why ask these questions at all? About some students ... What kind of students, if immediately on the wreckage of the plane you could see traces of the striking elements of the corresponding missiles? If fragments of the rocket itself were immediately found? When launching a rocket, the rumble is quite significant, people got scared and removed a noise source on their phones ... The car alarms at the parking lots worked ... Does the author know about this? How could this ,, hide ,,? The air defense system worked in the area of ​​the airport, not hiding ... Why was this aircraft hit? And why did the Americans hit exactly the car where S. was driving? In the same direction with his car, many cars rode ... People died, including ,, outsiders ,,? Hmm ... ,, In war, as in war ,,
  41. +1
    16 January 2020 09: 05
    I don’t understand anything. The liner flew from Tehran, a guidance officer or division commander takes him for an airplane or cruise missile attacking Iran, i.e. in his opinion, the target flies to Tehran. Took it for a cruise missile ... At an altitude of 2 km, the target mark of a healthy aircraft certainly differs from the mark of the KR from the word radically. And further. If the division is by the air corridor, then certainly HE or CD have seen enough of the marks from Boeing and Airbus to disgust and automatism. Even without centralized target designation and loss of communication with the command post (and what, indeed, in Iran is the connection between the ZRDN and KP by cell phone ???), for such a shot you need to be exactly a monkey with a grenade and epaulettes.
    1. 0
      16 January 2020 17: 29
      For some reason, everyone believes that the missile strike on the plane, which led to its ignition and fall, was inflicted on take-off at the point where the signal from the transponder disappeared. And no one takes into account the place where the plane crashed and the direction of its flight at that moment. But after the connection and the signal from the transponder disappeared, the plane began to turn right with a radius of about 7 kilometers and was shot down after about three minutes of flight with a turn, decrease and heading south-east in the direction of the departure airport. And this is about 14 kilometers to the right of the permitted flight corridor and closer to Tehran. Here there was a post of air defense of the near cover of the capital of Iran. But something that happened on take-off at the point of disappearance of communication and signal from the transponder led to this defeat of the aircraft by air defense missiles. And it is not yet known whether they will determine the reason for decrypting black boxes. But if we assume that the first video (with an attack on a plane on take-off, most likely from MANPADS, and filmed to report on the completed mission) is not a fake, then someone’s ears stick out and it was a planned action.
  42. +1
    20 January 2020 22: 44
    My situation with a downed plane raised two questions.
    1. Air defense of the IRGC saw on the radars the takeoff and flight of an airplane, where does such a sudden eclipse and desire to bring down come from?
    2. Passenger aircraft have (must have working) transponders (answering machines). Why didn’t the request-response work?

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