New details of what happened with the Ukrainian Boeing 737 presented

The American media presents a complete chronology of events related to the attack on a passenger airliner of Ukraine International Airlines. The airliner departed from Imam Khomeini Airport (Tehran) to Kiev. On board were citizens of Ukraine, Iran, Canada, Germany, and Afghanistan.

An article was published in The New York Times stating that the airliner took off about an hour late. According to the official version, it was connected with the fact that “they did not manage to load luggage on board”. He broke away from the Boeing 737 runway about 4 hours after the IRGC launched a missile strike at two US military bases in Iraq (at the Ain al-Assad base and a military facility in the Erbil area).

New details of what happened are presented.

The plane was gaining altitude, and during all this time there was a radio exchange with the air traffic control service of the airport. At the moment when Boeing reached a height of 2438 meters (and all this time it was displayed on the radar screens), the last signal was recorded. This happened approximately 183 seconds after takeoff.

The NYT claims that the rocket hit the board after it transmitted the last signal.

From the article:

A few seconds later, the second missile of the Iranian anti-aircraft missile complex hit the Boeing. Anti-aircraft missiles were fired from the secret military base of the IRGC.

The material stated that the crash of the aircraft (its fragments) continued for several minutes. The largest distance from the “epicenter” of the fall to the debris most extreme in flight is about 500 m. The last debris fell to the ground about 7 minutes after the airliner took off.

At the moment, Iran has not announced data on which calculation of the Tor air defense system carried out a strike on the Boeing. There is no data on what caused the “communication failure” between the air defense units of the IRGC. Recall that Tehran previously stated that it was communications problems in the air defense units that led to the strike on the Boeing "after the passenger plane was mistaken for an American cruise missile."

Comments

[Mountain shooter]

And who "cut off" their connection? Or are they themselves such that everything works every other time?

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Each "communication failure" has a last name, first name and patronymic.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

And who "cut off" their connection? Or are they themselves such that everything works every other time?

It is noteworthy that foreign media pay attention to the fact that before the Ukrainian airliner, liners from other countries successfully flew and landed from an Iranian airfield! And for some reason In recent years, international air crashes were somehow connected precisely with Ukraine!

This raises questions.
- If the Iranian crew took the Ukrainian airliner for the Kyrgyz Republic, then maybe something was wrong with the Ukrainian airliner for identifying air defense systems? Since nothing happened to others!
- Or, on the contrary, for some reason, it was him - the Ukrainian airliner - who was selectively provocatively shot and shot? Since, on the one hand, almost half of the passengers were Iranian students departing from Iran to other countries after the holidays, and on the other hand, almost half of the citizens of Canada, a country in which the Ukrainian diaspora are very numerous and strong, are the heirs of Bandera!

This also needs to be clarified.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: Tatiana

- Or, on the contrary, for some reason, it was him - the Ukrainian airliner - who was selectively provocatively shot and shot?

Quote: Tatiana

and on the other hand, the other almost half of the citizens of Canada - a country in which the Ukrainian diaspora is very numerous and strong

maybe enough to engage in conspiracy theories, looking for the hand of Moscow, which wants to shit Ukraine?

[Tatyana]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Looking for the hand of Moscow, which wants to shit Ukraine?

On the contrary, we are looking for the hand of the US special services and Ukraine subject to them! The United States, which seeks to destabilize the situation in the BV. Or will you deny it?

Such coincidences look too suspicious! And not only for me! And the reasons for this concern in the world are very significant, so as not to notice them and not pay attention to them!

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: Tatiana

The United States, which seeks to destabilize the situation in the BV. Or will you deny it?

Suppose there is a US hand in it, and what exactly is the Ukrainian board and Canadian citizens of Persian origin? What is the logic of your mnogohodovochki in a bunch of RF-Iran-USA-Ukraine?

[Pedrodepackes]

I agree with everything except this.

Quote: Tatiana

I hope that you understand that for the United States, Ukraine with all its "personal belongings" - citizens and property - is just American expendable geopolitical material.

There, all sorts of minor third countries took off full of planes, and Ukraine now plays the role of a battering ram against Russia, so why ruin relations with such an ally. It’s okay to sew Moscow’s hand to the case, so there it’s no sideways.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

I agree with everything except this.

Quote: Tatiana

I hope that you understand that for the United States, Ukraine with all its "personal belongings" - citizens and property - is just American expendable geopolitical material.

There, all kinds of insignificant third countries took off there, and Ukraine now plays the role of a battering ram against Russia, so why ruin relations with such an ally. It’s okay to sew Moscow’s hand to the case, so there it’s no sideways.

Ukraine is not an ally for the United States, namely a pro-American political instrument and consumables in Washington’s geopolitics against Russia and Iran as well. Speaking against Iran, Washington indirectly opposes the Russian Federation.

As for the US’s attitude against Russia, the tension in the BV itself arose because the US was ready to “block the Iranian oil and gas sector,” which would cause a sharp jump in oil prices with unpredictable consequences for the world economy.
And at the same time, the USA by its destruction of Kassem Suleimani in Iraq did not just commit a crime in violation of International Law, because of which war is declared, but specifically committed a crime from the category of PRECEDENT crimes, based on its own American ideas about justice in the field of national interests of the USA itself with violation of the norm of international law for other countries! Including RUSSIA!

And this, in turn, means only ONE that The USA, contrary to the well-established world law, OPENLY began to change the REALITY existing in the world after WWII in favor of its "world domination"! And Washington is not going to reckon with any country and its national interests. And some Ukraine dependent there on the USA will not dare to make any claims to Washington!

Iran v. USA, international law and falsifiers of history • Jan 10. 2020. Nikolay Starikov.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: Tatiana

The United States, by its destruction of Kassem Suleimani in Iraq, did not just commit a crime in violation of International Law, because of which war is declared, but specifically commit a crime of the category PRECEDENT Crimes, based on its own American ideas about justice in the field of national interests of the United States with a violation of NORM international law for other countries! Including RUSSIA!

Since such a booze has gone, we can begin to bring down
Ukrainian politicum, calling at different times for an attack on our country.

[siemens7774]

++++++. Super !! It's high time. And recall the 1654 treaty.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Ukraine now plays the role of a battering ram against Russia

Knock with a ram - chips fly. The same consumable. Distracted from the main topic wrote

[Puzoter]

https://topcor.ru/12694-specoperacija-ukrainskij-boeing-otvechat-za-sbityj-samolet-pridetsja-rossii.html?utm_campaign=auction

Interesting version

[Tatyana]

Quote: puzoter

https://topcor.ru/12694-specoperacija-ukrainskij-boeing-otvechat-za-sbityj-samolet-pridetsja-rossii.html?utm_campaign=auction
Interesting version

By the way, I completely share this version.
In the background of the recent events with the murder of Suleymani by the Americans, this fall of the Ukrainian airliner is all really SUSPICIOUS and pulls on accidental simplification a little!

[olafcik]

Perhaps because Ukraine, as a victim country and one of the participants in the investigation, the United States can completely control, 100%. Let us recall the phrase of Kolomoisky to the prankers "- With the Boeing everything is clear. It was an accident."
Imagine it would be a French airbus, it would be necessary to break Macron, and this is not Zelensky.
Generally hard to believe in matches
1. immediately after the shelling of American bases, a Boeing falls
2. Ukraine again
3. Someone filming a video comes out to smoke with the camera turned on, aimed towards the take-off of a Boeing.
I’m not smoking at night with the camera turned on ....

In general, there is information on the network that near the take-off there was a US drone RQ-4 Global Hawk, which is quite acceptable according to the scenario of military operations.
Probably interfered, or maybe something else, I hope everything will become clear.

[skif8013]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Quote: Tatiana

The United States, which seeks to destabilize the situation in the BV. Or will you deny it?

Suppose there is a US hand in it, and what exactly is the Ukrainian board and Canadian citizens of Persian origin? What is the logic of your mnogohodovochki in a bunch of RF-Iran-USA-Ukraine?

The logic is that it was the Ukrainian side that was not a pity! Iran could get a good answer for any other. And for the Ukrainian they simply threaten with a finger, well, they will impose maximum sanctions. The question is who organized this and for what purpose?

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Tatiana

Such coincidences look too suspicious! And not only for me!

Tatyana! I subscribe to your opinion. A very muddy story. In my amateurish opinion, the following version looks more or less logical: the national hero and people's favorite Suleimani gained too much popularity in Iran, comparable to an ayatollah, like our Russian Alexander Lebed in his time. Someone from the Iranian elite anonymously leaked information that he was preparing a series of attacks on the embassies, etc. and is currently there and there. Ps with great pleasure "worked on the headdress". In Iran, a wave of popular anger erupted with crowds at funerals and red flags at mosques. As a result, it only turned out that all the steam of terrible revenge went off the horn. The storm swept through the glass of water. American military units were not damaged, material damage was minimal. To anticipate the questions "What kind of revenge is this unfinished?" and "Why did it end there?" Suleimani's assassination was blocked by a much louder information bomb about the destruction of the Ukrainian Boeing. The board was chosen Ukrainian for the reason that Ukraine will shut up for money quickly and not expensive. And the levers of influence of Ukraine on Iran, except for "Sportloto", are not particularly observed. And in the near future, in the wake of the "curvature of air defense-shnikov" there will be a cleaning of the ranks of the IRGC. Elections in Iran will be held as usual. No "dark horses" from the military.
PS This is my personal opinion. I do not impose.

[vladcub]

Elk, I almost completely agree with you, but I doubt that the Ukrainian board was chosen consciously: I most likely chose the first board that came across, the tertiary power.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: vladcub

the first board that came of a tertiary power.

For which neither p-s, nor Arabs, nor Chinese, nor Europeans, nor Russians will "fit in". A more convenient power for such a case could not be imagined.

[major147]

Quote: Polite Elk

It's my personal opinion.

Noteworthy.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: Polite Elk

The national hero and national favorite Suleymani has gained too much popularity in Iran, comparable to the ayatollah, such as our Russian Alexander Lebed

Is the swan a national favorite and a national hero?
The "hero" put the disgrace of the Khasavyurt agreements, treacherously concluded by him, on the shoulders of a Russian soldier, calling him a "suffocate" with whom it is impossible to fight. The same soldier who, despite the plight of the army of that time, won that war with clenched teeth. Rather, he almost won, but Lebed stole the victory. Then Lebed stole not only the victory, he was responsible for the second Chechen one and all its victims, which would not have been needed if we had not had such a "hero" as Lebed in our time.
I think that the "merits" of this "hero" and his owner, Berezovsky, will be highly appreciated not only by the "grateful" descendants, but also, where they now promise, they will be provided with a hotter boiler.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: G⁣eo

Is the swan a national favorite and a national hero?
The shame of the Khasavyurt agreements, treacherously concluded by himself,

Everyone has their own view of historical events and personalities. I will not argue with you in relation to the personality of A. Lebed, although I consider his role to be more positive than destructive. In the asset he has a stopped conflict in Transnistria and a very high popularity at that time. Almost became a president. And it is not known how the events would have gone if he had then become close to Zyuganov. He could well have raised the army and carried the "democrats" to Boris Nikolayevich's mother. And they would follow him. And not only the army. But the cunning EBN bought him with the post of defense minister, from whom he later fired under a left-wing pretext, but on completely legal grounds.
And the unpopular and ruinous war had to be stopped without fail. Albeit on not at all attractive terms. And do not forget that all decisions were not made by him personally. At that time there were enough "commanders" there. And the influence of the n-owls was generally prohibitive.
I am not calling for anything, but I would not be so categorical in relation to A. Lebed.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: Polite Elk

Everyone has their own view

If this statement deserved at least some respect, we would still live on flat land, standing either on whales or on elephants. Truth is truth, and views are both close to it and distant. The first deserve attention, the second censure.

Quote: Polite Elk

In the asset he has a stopped conflict in Transnistria

The conflict in Transnistria was stopped by the 14th army, local forces and Russian volunteers.

Quote: Polite Elk

and very high popularity at that time

At that time, a lot of things were promoted and popular. That Yeltsin, that Mavrodi ... The presence of popularity does not characterize the person on a positive side.

Quote: Polite Elk

if he then became close to Zyuganov

He became close to those who had large loot - with Berezovsky and Co.

Quote: Polite Elk

unpopular and devastating war needed to be stopped

Victory. Until which there were only a few months. And with the Khasavyurt agreements, he did not stop it, but paused it, giving the enemy the opportunity to return to the lands conquered from him before, gain strength and continue. As a result, they had to stop during the second Chechen, new big blood. They stopped in the end. Including because the "heroes" like a swan were already feeding the worms by that time.

Quote: Polite Elk

I do not call for anything

Oh yeah

[kot28.ru]

But the wise EBN bought his Minister of Defense
No more ... you don’t have to go. about him

[Okolotochny]

For Swan I agree with you. After Khasavyurt, with a mockery he gave an interview that the Krasnodar riot police had surrendered, the officers decided to save the lives of their subordinates. That is, he conducted behind-the-scenes negotiations with Berezovsky, as a result of which the militants were "cashed out" and resented that the Interior Ministry officers "did not stand to death."

[vladcub]

Yes, they need personal boilers, others can be them in one, and they preferably personal

[siemens7774]

In vain you equated Alexander Lebed with your favorites. It has long been proven that he worked in conjunction with Berezovsky. Why did they remove them.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: siemens7774

In vain you equated Alexander Lebed with your favorites. It has long been proven that he worked in conjunction with Berezovsky. Why did they remove them.

The article is not about Swan. I gave it like this, for example, in a comment. Moreover, a successful military leader may pose a threat to the current government. And the authorities will try to stop this threat. And there are many examples of this in history.

[siemens7774]

Successful warlord patronage commander. Not a very good example. They moved them with all possible.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: siemens7774

You equated Alexander Lebed with the favorites

Yes, this is a common attempt between the lines to deceive the reader. You write the right things, and in the middle, in between cases, you turn in your own lies, which, if you openly say, they will completely accept for stupidity.

Something like:
Water has three states of aggregation, as Zyuganov has not been sleeping for three years, he thinks all about Russia: solid, liquid, and gaseous.

[siemens7774]

Geo.You plus, you clearly spelled out one of the rules of the drifters on the influence of people.

[major147]

Quote: Tatiana

On the contrary, we are looking for the hand of US intelligence

The Iranians "shot down" the plane very successfully for the Americans. American shelling and the assassination of an Iranian general eclipsed the downed plane. Look for someone who benefits!

[Polite Moose]

Quote: major147

The American shelling and assassination of an Iranian general was eclipsed by a downed plane.

And the plane was overshadowed by the near-zero result of the BR strike at the bases of the n-owls and the complete absence of a "response" from their side. Although, as history shows, they deprived entire countries of economic and military infrastructure for lesser offenses, such as Powell's test tube. And then the incredible happened: a blow to military bases - and silence. And what if everyone starts hitting their bases? All the same - silence. This does not sound like the beacons of democracy. It looks more like a not well-played performance. I personally think so.

[YOUR]

The strange thing is that the United States figured it out so quickly. Almost instantly, the United States and Ukraine announced that the plane was shot down. At the same time, the missile clearly indicated which SAM and where the missiles were launched from. Initially, this information seemed like another disinformation, but a day passed and it turned out that everything was true. So it was
Informativeness surpasses and surprises. Where does such knowledge come from ?????????

[vladcub]

About the rockets on the site has already been said. Googling enough to know what rockets are there

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

looking for the hand of Moscow, which wants to shit Ukraine?

All by yourself ...
How much they themselves have spoiled enemies are no longer needed

[bayard]

"If you don't want to do conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories will take care of you."
Let me remind you also that all (!) Special services of the world conduct their operations, as a rule, with a CONSPIRATION.
And yet, Comrade Lenin taught his comrades-in-arms long before the seizure of power: "Conspiracy, conspiracy, and again CONSPIRATION."
So stop playing with words, conspiracy is the normal mode of operation of special services.
Or do you deny their existence?

[Andrey77]

Since, on the one hand, almost half of the passengers were Iranian students
And in Iran, there are sickly opposition fights ... And if these students were oppositionists ...

[alexmach]

and on the other hand, the other almost half of the citizens of Canada - a country in which the Ukrainian diaspora is very numerous and strong - are the heirs of Bandera!

Yeah of course. It was Canada’s Bandera who flew from Iran to Canada, by no means Canadian immigrants from Iran, what are you, what should you do in Iran.

[Tatyana]

Quote: alexmach

Yeah of course. It was Canada’s Bandera who flew from Iran to Canada, by no means Canadian immigrants from Iran, what are you, what should you do in Iran.

It was reported that in addition to Iranian students, almost half of the passengers of UKRAINIANS from Canada flew. And up to 5 people from 2 other countries.

[alexmach]

It was reported that in addition to Iranian students, nearly half of the passengers from Canada were flying from Canada

Seriously? And if you look at the list of the dead? Find half of Ukrainian names there?

[Tatyana]

Quote: alexmach

It was reported that in addition to Iranian students, nearly half of the passengers from Canada were flying from Canada

Seriously? And if you look at the list of the dead? Find half of Ukrainian names there?

As originally reported in the media about the passengers of the Ukrainian airliner, so I write. Registrars of passenger passports for flights are probably more aware.

[alexmach]

Once again, I don’t know what they told you and what the registrars see there, on the very first day a list of the dead was published on the Internet. It is available to everyone, including you right now, where is there on this list half of the Canadian Bandera? Why are you writing these nonsense?

[Tatyana]

Give a link on the Internet to the list of dead passengers to watch, otherwise I personally have not seen this list.
I am writing according to media reports immediately after the crash of the airliner.

[Tatyana]

Quote: alexmach

https://www.ntv.ru/novosti/2275781/

Thanks! I looked.

[Cetron]

All Canadian citizens on board had Persian names, surnames.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Cetron

All Canadian citizens on board had Persian names, surnames.

It is strange, then, where does the Ukrainian "trace" come from in the primary - before the publication of the passenger list - media report?
Maybe it was the Ukrainian "militants" with Iranian passports that were returning to Canada on this flight?
Moreover, they also initially suggested that on board the plane there could be those who could not be let out of Iran.

[alexmach]

It is strange then, whence the Ukrainian "trace" in the primary

The fruit of someone's irrepressible imagination?

[vladcub]

1) almost all airlines exploit Boeing, which means the planes are all the same planes.
2) "they shot them selectively and provocatively," so why did someone want to provoke the Ukrainians?
And you are not admitted that they accidentally fell under the "distribution"? For some reason it seems to me that CONSCIOUS PROVOCATION against the IRGC: there are actually 2 parallel armies in Iran, and this ALWAYS causes rivalry. Why not assume that someone from the army circles was involved in the communication failure?

[Tatyana]

Quote: vladcub

1) almost all airlines exploit Boeing, which means the planes are all the same planes.
2) "they shot them selectively and provocatively," so why did someone want to provoke the Ukrainians?
And you are not admitted that they accidentally fell under the "distribution"?

Somehow little is believed in chance. I think that the provocateurs by the Ukrainian liner and passengers simply sacrificed to achieve their political goals.
If a terrorist provocation is planned, and a provocation in general, then the provocateurs seek to plan their maximum benefit from it and public resonance in all directions.

[yang174]

I didn’t serve, just an opinion ... the warrior doesn’t have information about the corridor, time of departure, type of aircraft? do not accompany from the moment of take-off and before going abroad? in my opinion the blizzard is complete ... accidentally pressed a button .... and no that america. anecdote of the day. it is no coincidence that the video appears in the Western press almost seconds after it. the guy walked at night and decided to remove the second rocket ... well, come on, take off the thread of the second rocket and hit the plane, accidentally focused at the moment .. ..there are some questions.

[Roman1970_1]

Canadian citizens were almost all of Iranian descent

[Kazbek]

All Canadians are Iranian citizens who received a residence permit in Canada.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Kazbek
All Canadians are Iranian citizens who received a residence permit in Canada.

Yes, we have already sorted out the ethnic composition of the passengers of the Ukrainian airliner. Now consider another. Namely.

However, earlier sources in Iran reported and confirmed by experts that the Ukrainian Boeing was shot down by the American drone MQ-1 Predator.

The fact that the Boeing is civilian was known in Iran. But US intelligence agencies might not know who is on board.
“And so they [the US special services] had a motive to try to destroy the plane on which they thought they were members of the IRGC [Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps]. Therefore, it is not surprising that they shot down an airplane, ”said military expert Savin.

TOTAL. In the Russian Federation, they were even surprised at such an early-premature - before a full investigation - the official recognition of the IRGC about "by mistake it shot down a Ukrainian airliner."
It seems that the "mole" in Iran is setting up the IRGC.

See in detail - https://sovetov.su/topnews/103897-ssha-sbili-ukrainskij-samolet-podozrevaja-nalichie-bojcov-ksir-na-bortu-schitaet-voennyj-jekspert/?utm_medium=referral&utm_sbili-ukrainskij=lentm_medium=referral&utm_sutource=lenttov .su & utm_term = 1257940 & utm_content = 8254128

[16329]

Canadian citizens of Iranian descent, the Iranian diaspora in Canada is also numerous, as in Europe and the USA.

[1959ain]

in the East, any fortress will inevitably fall if the assault weapon, loaded with gold, was fair at all times and did not lose its truth today. It is very likely that someone in Iran, having decided to play some “undercover games” with Washington, simply overestimated himself and strongly underestimated the overseas “partners”. By the way, the “mopping up” of the military leaders, which became uncomfortable for some, goes on: on January 11 in Iraq’s Karbala, the leader of the People’s Mobilization Forces, Taleb Abbas Ali al-Saedi, who was the closest ally of the deceased along with Kassem Suleimani Abu Mahdi, was killed al-Muhandisa. Without any Americans, mind you. Raging on the streets of Baghdad now shouting “Down with the regime!”, “Death to the dictator!” And “We are now united!” (Well, yes, “we’re too big at once”, “get gang” ...) the crowds were simply not “registered” in the original arrangement. But when did the United States conclude such transactions without a double bottom and, moreover, honestly carried them out?

[boss]

if the operator has air defense for 5 seconds to make a decision, then communication is unlikely to help.
contact + reaction + analysis + decision making + review
too much even for 10 seconds.
on the other hand, the flight lasted about 180 seconds.
interesting layout

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: patron

the air defense operator has 5 seconds to make a decision,

In a specific case, the operator cannot decide to open fire on his own. He is a performer. He gives an operational command, or, in extreme cases, is sent to a senior combat crew. This is all DUPLICATED from such cases. When conducting a battle, a completely different algorithm of actions and other rules are provided. But not this time. On the face of the failure of the Iranian air defense system, due to the expectation of a retaliatory strike by the U.S. Air Force. Russia also needs to take note and analyze.

[Andrey77]

Air Defense Corps of the Islamic Revolution, after striking at their leader, hands were held on the trigger.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Mar. Tira

.Russia should also take note of this and analyze it.

Send an urgent SMS with advice. Suddenly there are "teapots" sitting
It’s not funny to give "advice" to people who WORK.
Not on the internet. Not in social networks, but at a combat post

[Mik1701]

When the board was destroyed, then the connection kapets. Monkeys.

[svp67]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

And who "cut off" their connection?

There are many options. Including internal enemies, external enemies, their own slobs. But, something more and more this story is becoming "muddy" and "muddy". CDs do not fly over enemy territory at altitudes of 2000 meters, the operator did not know about this or did not want to know? And how can a mark from a huge liner be mistaken for a mark from a CD? Will there be answers to these questions. And yet, what was this "TOP" guarded there so that it had only five seconds to take it, if a civilian flight route passes nearby? There are more and more questions. And how strange it is that it was the IRGC who "got involved" in this story, not the Army, but the IRGC. There are more and more "dark pages" in this "bloody history". There is more and more confidence that someone INSIDE Iran is pursuing a course of removing Islamic preachers from power and returning to a secular state.
Someone "leaked information" about the route of Soleimani's movement, I will note a very influential person in Iran, in fact, his "gray eminence", someone did everything so that information about retaliatory strikes against the Americans became known to them and they avoided losses, and now this a tragedy in which the IRGC is completely bogged down, and hence the next ruling ayatol.

[4ekist]

1) "... CD does not fly over the enemy's territory at altitudes of 2000 meters, the operator did not know about it or did not want to know?" - Who told you that?
2) "... And how can a mark from a huge liner be taken for a mark from a CD?" - Silently !!!

[svp67]

Quote: 4ekist

"... CDs do not fly over the enemy's territory at altitudes of 2000 meters, the operator did not know about it or did not want to know?" - Who told you that?

Yes, because in this case it is easily vulnerable, it is not in vain that in order to protect themselves, the Kyrgyz Republics have the ability to fly, taking into account the envelope of the terrain with a decrease of up to 50 meters, so that they would not be found longer and not shot down

[tihonmarine]

Quote: svp67

There is increasing confidence that someone INSIDE Iran is pursuing a policy of removing Islamic preachers from power and returning to a secular state.

I agree with that.

[Andrey77]

In Iran, there is now a fight for power. Then think for yourself who and to whom.

[private person]

To be honest, I got this "Boeing" in Ukraine probably less often than they remember it than here on VO. They are discussing what, who shot down, and maybe everything is easier, just someone who was not supposed to fly on a certain carrier or carriers of classified information was flying on it.

[svp67]

Quote: private person

To be honest, I already got this Boeing in Ukraine

There, Russia was pulled to this disaster by President Zelensky, along with our Surkov

[private person]

pulled and President Zelensky

So he is the president of the country, so to speak, the owner of this Boeing.

together with our Surkov

It climbs where it’s not necessary.

[Tatyana]

Quote: private person

President Zelensky was also attracted.So he is the president of the country, so to speak, the owner of this Boeing.

We have already written that this Ukrainian "Boeing" belonged to Kolomoisky - either only the plane itself, or the entire Ukrainian airline itself belongs to Kolomoisky in Ukraine.

[Roman1970_1]

To be honest, I got this "Boeing" in Ukraine probably less often than they remember it than here on VO. They are discussing what, who shot down, and maybe everything is easier, just someone who was not supposed to fly on a certain carrier or carriers of classified information was flying on it.

But it wasn’t easier for him / them not to be allowed on the plane

[private person]

Or maybe something went wrong?

[Nikolaevich I]

A military expert and former pilot Aleksey Dvortsov, in a commentary to Komsomolskaya Pravda, also suggested that the American drone operator could try to hide from Iranian missiles with the flight path of a civilian plane.

“I won’t be surprised if it was so. The drone operator simply hid behind a take-off civilian aircraft to avoid air defense missiles. The height that the plane managed to gain before the tragedy is about two and a half thousand meters. This is the standard working height for the drone. Their speed was also approximately the same - 350 or 400 kilometers per hour. Therefore, technically it is absolutely possible. Moreover, incidents are known when American UAVs were covered by cargo or civilian airliners during the performance of their tasks, ”he emphasized.

Isn't it "information for thought"?

[Siberian]

An interesting version, but what did the United States UAV do so deeply over Iran? That is the question. Question to the Iranian pvoshnikov. What is the air defense system then?

[4ekist]

Perhaps at this time there was no connection between the air. Tehran and KP air defense. What is the reason?

[dgonni]

A drone could be. He could not just hide behind the side. And the height of the plane was real 1500 meters since the airfield in the mountains. Above sea level, there was something about 2500 above sea level. Experts they are such experts that already takes horror

[kiril1246]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

American drone operator

Israeli

[Svarog51]

Nikolaevich While there is no official information from the commission for the investigation of the disaster, we can only speculate. And here I’ll guess - and suddenly Iranian missiles missed, and the United States drone hit. How is this version?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Svarog51

How is this version?

Hello, Sergey! The normal version! All versions have the right to "be present and discussed" until the official conclusion of the commission of inquiry is announced ... By the way, there are cases when "unofficial" versions remain "active" even after the official version is announced!

[Svarog51]

Nikolaevich With all come
I am also surprised by the almost complete absence of concrete facts. Even the recognition of the Iranians does not convince. Well, a very muddy story.

[Svarog51]

Volodya, I have vague suspicions that a version is now being worked out for the general public. We will not know the real facts, they will secret and hide in the archive.

[Nikolaevich I]

Very likely! What happened in "our age" more than once! Incl. and in similar cases ...

[dvina71]

At the moment, Iran has not announced data on which calculation of the Tor air defense system carried out a strike.

Why exactly TOP?
The 9M330 missile launcher has 14kg .., but the entire lower front of the aircraft is missing from the assembly of the airplane’s body. Is there enough 14kg for such damage?

[tlauicol]

Quote: dvina71

At the moment, Iran has not announced data on which calculation of the Tor air defense system carried out a strike.

Why exactly TOP?
The 9M330 missile launcher has 14kg .., but the entire lower front of the aircraft is missing from the assembly of the airplane’s body. Is there enough 14kg for such damage?

there was no assembly yet.

[svp67]

Quote: Tlauicol

there was no assembly yet.

Ukrainians have already announced its holding.

[tlauicol]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Tlauicol

there was no assembly yet.

Ukrainians have already announced its holding.

yeah. they themselves are not there yet

[svp67]

Quote: Tlauicol

yeah. they themselves are not there yet

You apparently do not follow the news well. On January 10 this year, there was a message

[tlauicol]

collection of wreckage at the scene of the tragedy and "Collecting an aircraft from the wreckage" - as they say in Odessa?

[svp67]

Quote: Tlauicol

collection of wreckage at the scene of the tragedy and "Collecting an aircraft from the wreckage" - as they say in Odessa?

Write in short: "layout"

[tlauicol]

in short: she was not

[svp67]

Quote: Tlauicol

in short: she was not

In short, they already indicated the places where the missiles hit ...

[tlauicol]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Tlauicol

in short: she was not

In short, they already indicated the places where the missiles hit ...

Who are they ? Ukrainians? Do you think they started a dispute? they were not there yet

and as you said three days ago
"There is a lot to say, but WHERE IS THE PROOF? The rockets should leave evidence of their involvement in this disaster, including in the bodies of the people who died in the crash. Show this evidence."
Now turn these missiles on your tongue yourself. well at least something

[svp67]

Quote: Tlauicol

Who are they ? Ukrainians? Do you think they started a dispute? they were not there yet

They are already there, look again at the news for January 10, are you too lazy?

Quote: Tlauicol

and as you said three days ago
"There is a lot to say, but WHERE IS THE PROOF? The rockets should leave evidence of their involvement in this disaster, including in the bodies of the people who died in the crash. Show this evidence."
Now turn these missiles on your tongue yourself. well at least something

Thank you for following my comments so closely.

[dvina71]

Quote: Tlauicol

there was no assembly yet.

Well, OK..

The greatest distance from the “epicenter” of the fall to the debris most extreme in flight is about 500 m

Is that enough for 14kg?
Russian A3231 detonated over the Sinai was collected on an area of ​​30 km, the length of the ellipse 13 km ..

[tlauicol]

Sinai flight - an explosion on board, fell apart and fell. this one is an explosion overboard, fell and fell apart

[dvina71]

Quote: Tlauicol

fell and fell apart

So I ask. 14kg centuries behind the Borot is enough for this?

[tlauicol]

Quote: dvina71

Quote: Tlauicol

fell and fell apart

So I ask. 14kg centuries behind the Borot is enough for this?

for which ? there was no calculation - I already answered you. enough to bring down

[Piramidon]

Quote: Tlauicol

this one is an explosion overboard

A direct hit of a rocket and its explosion inside an aircraft is not ruled out. Moreover, as they say, there were two missiles.

[svp67]

Quote: Piramidon

A direct hit of a rocket and its explosion inside an aircraft is not ruled out. Moreover, as they say, there were two missiles.

One of the rockets exploded under the cab floor.

[Antidote]

There, the height and speed were a little more

[Blackmokona]

And most likely it will not, judging by reports as Iran promptly cleaned the wreckage

[dgonni]

Do you know what a defeat cone is? TTX torus know? He incidentally and imprisoned to destroy the central part of the aircraft.
P.S. By the way, it worked normally!

[dvina71]

Quote: dgonni

You know what a defeat cone is

Yes, even a cube .. The information about the Torah was first posted by Ukrainians and even attached a photo. That's the whole texture for Thor. Now on the invoice.
In Iran’s air defense, besides Thor, there are beeches, c200. !! which are just standing in the area of ​​Tehran’s airport ..., then c300, Iranian copies of c300 and beech, also a Chinese clone c75, with new missiles.
The defeat of the Boeing is very similar to our downed IL and the American F-117. Hit, significant destruction and an almost sheer drop. All of them were shot down by Zur with a large weight of warheads. The F-117 was shot down by an S-125 air defense system, the Zur warhead was over 60 kg.
Zur Tor has a 15 kg XNUMX kg from which the Boeing flashed a candle and collapsed .. No .. I do not deny it. Boeing is enough, but not so.

[dgonni]

For the torus, the Americans were the first to notice the type of plum of the Izrailts. With a photo of the first two compartments of the Tor rocket, which, like, lay peacefully in a canal in the area of ​​the fall of a Boeing.
Boeing did not fall steeply. He fell in the right spiral at an angle of about 25-30 degrees to the horizon. Collapsed from hitting the ground

[Liam]

Quote: dgonni

For the first torus, Americans were first notified of the type of plum of the Izrailtians

On the "drain" of its own RTR means, which recorded the inclusion of the TOR radar. Each type of air defense system has its own handwriting of the radar

[dgonni]

There all air defense was included! But they reported the Torah. And so by chance showed the first two collapsed compartments of the torus. Up to the gas workers lying peacefully and neatly in the middle of the canal!

[Liam]

The TOP has 2 radars. Survey and guidance. The second is turned on only when fired to escort a rocket. This and spotted

[G⁣eo]

Quote: dvina71

Enough 14kg for such destruction?

A hit on the ground is enough. Already discussed

[Roman1970_1]

and the entire lower front of the aircraft is missing from the assembly of the airplane’s body ..

What is the body assembly?
There, after a few hours, the Iranians cleaned everything with bulldozers and leveled it along with the wreckage of the aircraft.

[Azazelo]

That would be a more detailed analysis of the Malaysian Boeing, the United States provided .... otherwise, here the data is detailed, and there is secret.

[cniza]

Russia is "to blame" there, so everything is classified ...

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Azazelo

That would be a more detailed analysis of the Malaysian Boeing, the United States provided .... otherwise, here the data is detailed, and there is secret.

The United States has announced what data it has on MH17, and in no less detail. You don't know about them for exactly one reason: the cries of "it's all fakes" sound much louder and drown out the streams of information for those who are not looking specifically.

[kit88]

Vyacheslav Viktorovich, I think I will express the opinion of the majority, asking you to voice "US data". I hope this is not a high-likes, but concrete facts, confirmed by the evidence base.
The answer - google itself - is not serious and questions your post above.

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: kit88

Vyacheslav Viktorovich, I think I will express the opinion of the majority, asking you to voice "US data". I hope this is not a high-likes, but concrete facts, confirmed by the evidence base.
The answer - google itself - is not serious and questions your post above.

The US has announced what data it has on MH17 in no less detail, but no more detail, than on Boeing over Iran. If you look closely, you will see that on Boeing over Iran "there are no specific facts confirmed by the evidentiary base", but there are only public statements about the presence of flashes from missiles launches in a certain area. Which, if desired, can be similarly declared "fake" and "high-likes", but this is not done, simply because it will look stupid when Iran has already confessed.

It just surprises me when people say that on MH17 the United States allegedly gave less information than on Iran. Not less. Just exactly the same.

[kit88]

Your answer is very clear.

"specific facts, confirmed by the evidentiary base" no

Thank you.

[Jack O'Neill]

Boeing over Iran "no concrete facts, confirmed by the evidentiary base", but there are only public statements about the presence of flash images from missile launches in a certain area. Which, if desired, can be similarly declared "fake" and "high-likes", but this is not done, simply because it will look stupid when Iran has already confessed.

And so it was. I posted a video of a missile defense system hitting a Boeing, to which they replied: "these are fakes." Not so straight, but ...

 Show / Hide text

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Ramzaj99

The United States has promised for 6 years to provide satellite images of the launch of an anti-aircraft missile. Where are they?

As of December 2014, provided to Dutch investigators and ICAO.

Quote: Ramzaj99

They promise to publish dispatcher conversations (which were never a secret at all) Where?

Published in the DSB preliminary report on September 10, 2014.

[dvina71]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

As of December 2014, provided to Dutch investigators and

Then two questions ..
Why the investigation has been going on for 6 years, soon, and the result is 0.
And two ... why are law firms stubbornly kicking off lawsuits on mh-17 against Russia?

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: dvina71

Why the investigation has been going on for 6 years, soon, and the result is 0.

The trial is scheduled for March 9, 2020.

Quote: dvina71

And two ... why are law firms stubbornly kicking off lawsuits on mh-17 against Russia?

I have not heard of such cases.

[dvina71]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

The trial is scheduled for March 9, 2020.

You probably know the people involved? Which of them controlled the alleged .Book?
And what qualifications do any of them have for this?

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

I have not heard of such cases.

That's it...
https://ria.ru/20160521/1437463726.html
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/24/05/2016/574484139a794723e6685ebe
Well, what has the ECHR begun to consider the claim? The 20th year has already begun. 6 years after the disaster ..

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: dvina71

You probably know the people involved? Which of them controlled the alleged .Book?
And what qualifications do any of them have for this?

I know those announced publicly. No one claimed that any of them directly controlled Buk. But direct control of the Buk is not the only way you can be involved in this event.

Quote: dvina71

Well, what has the ECHR begun to consider the lawsuit?

You and I understand the word "kicked off" in different ways.

[Kurare]

All this is strange. It was as if the Boeing had been taken out on its last flight. And the video of the rocket launch is very strange. The operator of this video very clearly "guided" the missile to the target.

The most interesting thing is still unknown who made this video, who had the good fortune to shoot a black night sky and then bam, a rocket flying in a passenger plane.

[cniza]

The directing of this tragedy is very visible ...

[Kurare]

Quote: cniza

The directing of this tragedy is very visible ...

Not a fan of conspiracy theories, but there are a lot of white threads on black cloth.

[cniza]

There are already many versions on this subject and very believable:

[quote] Meanwhile, Russia doubts that Iran’s recognition of the death of the Ukrainian Boeing really confirms Tehran’s guilt. Former chief of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the special forces command of the Russian Air Force, Sergey Khatylev called the recognition the result of pressure from Western countries on Iran.

According to him, the final conclusions can only be voiced by the international commission after decoding the "black boxes". “There are no such mistakes. Ukraine still has not recognized that it destroyed the Russian Tu-2001 in 154 over the Black Sea, and here the reverse process did not take place three days after the tragedy, and the Iranians have already admitted everything, ”Khatylev said.

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: cniza

There are no such errors. Ukraine still has not recognized that it destroyed the Russian Tu-2001 in 154 over the Black Sea, and here the reverse process - not even three days have passed since the tragedy, and the Iranians have already admitted everything

His first part of the statement is not consistent with the second. The fact that Ukraine has still not recognized the Tu-154, proves that such errors do not happen? Or what?

[Crystal of Truth]

Is this for example? Where did you see the white threads

[Kurare]

Quote: Crystal of Truth

Is this for example? Where did you see the white threads

Read what was discussed in the thread. I will not chew.

[Svarog51]

Embroidery on the chest.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Kurare

All this is strange. It was as if the Boeing had been taken out on its last flight. And the video of the rocket launch is very strange. The operator of this video very clearly "guided" the missile to the target.

The most interesting thing is still unknown who made this video, who had the good fortune to shoot a black night sky and then bam, a rocket flying in a passenger plane.

Matter of chance. All the same, the Boeing fell in Tehran, and this is the capital of Iran, can you imagine how many people live there? And then one should not forget about Iran’s strike on American bases by the Kyrgyz Republic, probably there the whole country was looking at the sky and waiting for answers, so Majesty is the case.

[Usher]

Quote: Aleksandr21

Quote: Kurare

All this is strange. It was as if the Boeing had been taken out on its last flight. And the video of the rocket launch is very strange. The operator of this video very clearly "guided" the missile to the target.

The most interesting thing is still unknown who made this video, who had the good fortune to shoot a black night sky and then bam, a rocket flying in a passenger plane.

Matter of chance. All the same, the Boeing fell in Tehran, and this is the capital of Iran, can you imagine how many people live there? And then one should not forget about Iran’s strike on American bases by the Kyrgyz Republic, probably there the whole country was looking at the sky and waiting for answers, so Majesty is the case.

Where is Tehran, and where is Iraq. It seems to me that the missiles were not launched from the capital and the answer was definitely not in Tehran.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Usher

Where is Tehran, and where is Iraq. It seems to me that the missiles were not launched from the capital and the answer was definitely not in Tehran.

In Tehran did not wait for an answer? Maybe then tell me why Iran’s air defense (including in Tehran) was put on full alert?

[tlauicol]

Quote: Kurare

All this is strange. It was as if the Boeing had been taken out on its last flight. And the video of the rocket launch is very strange. The operator of this video very clearly "guided" the missile to the target.

The most interesting thing is still unknown who made this video, who had the good fortune to shoot a black night sky and then bam, a rocket flying in a passenger plane.

he heard a start and an explosion. took out his phone and filmed the burning plane and the second hit. "also me - Newton's binomial!"

[Kurare]

Quote: Tlauicol

he heard the start and explosion.

That's so simple, do you think? Watch the video, it is only a few seconds! Hear the launch, get the phone, just direct it to a barely visible trace from the rocket and lead it to the target! .. I am tormented by vague doubts that this is possible!

[tlauicol]

looked. the direction of the explosion he heard. at times the burning airplane itself is visible even on the phone. what is the problem ?
he (the conspirator, agent, reptiloid) would have started shooting in advance - you don’t see this point blank

[Kurare]

Quote: Tlauicol

the direction of the explosion he heard.

Those. he heard the rocket explode, and then began to shoot, how it flew into the plane? Original!

[tlauicol]

Quote: Kurare

Quote: Tlauicol

the direction of the explosion he heard.

Those. He heard the rocket explode, and then began to shoot, how it flew into the plane? Original!

I goof off with you guys

[Usher]

Quote: Tlauicol

Quote: Kurare

All this is strange. It was as if the Boeing had been taken out on its last flight. And the video of the rocket launch is very strange. The operator of this video very clearly "guided" the missile to the target.

The most interesting thing is still unknown who made this video, who had the good fortune to shoot a black night sky and then bam, a rocket flying in a passenger plane.

he heard a start and an explosion. took out his phone and filmed the burning plane and the second hit. "also me - Newton's binomial!"

Yeah, he believed it. This is how to shoot the night sky, and planes at night at the airport, it seems to me no one in their right mind will do this.

[tlauicol]

not excluded. there are a lot of people with telephones in the metropolis all the more so all the wars of the night.

but everything was simpler here: dude hears a rocket launch and an explosion. turns Bosko and sees a burning plane. takes out the phone and removes the second start and hit. Reached you ???

[Usher]

Quote: Tlauicol

not excluded. there are a lot of people with telephones in the metropolis all the more so all the wars of the night.

but everything was simpler here: dude hears a rocket launch and an explosion. turns Bosko and sees a burning plane. takes out the phone and removes the second start and hit. Reached you ???

Have you watched the video? It takes off much earlier, the sound of engines is heard and that's it, the video is not the second hit. There is a hit near the end.

[Kurare]

Quote: Tlauicol

but everything was simpler here: dude hears a rocket launch and an explosion. turns Bosko and sees a burning plane. takes out the phone and removes the second start and hit.

The fact of the matter is that the video is not the second, but the first hit.

[neri73-r]

Specialists, please explain whether it is possible to distinguish Boeing from the Kyrgyz Republic on the radar screen? In particular, in the TOP.

[bk316]

Specialists, please explain whether it is possible to distinguish Boeing from the Kyrgyz Republic on the radar screen?

On the torus I don’t know on the S-200 you can, you just need to train more.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: bk316

you just need to train more

And why then instrumentally study the reflection parameters of specific objects on the mock-ups, if this infa is not used in any way when creating air defense systems, and everything is left at the mercy of the operator’s experience, as you say?

[huntsman650]

Mastery is achieved by training and this is the highest form of operator training and not only)))

[bk316]

And why then instrumentally study the reflection parameters of specific objects on the mock-ups, if this infa is not used in any way when creating air defense systems, and everything is left at the mercy of the operator’s experience, as you say?

The C-200 can work in automatic mode (after the appropriate command) by itself selecting targets and choosing the order of their defeat according to fairly simple algorithms for this (later complexes use more complex algorithms such as signatures about which you write). But the enemy can use electronic warfare, change signatures, etc. In this case, to select goals, an assessment of the operational situation is needed for this and operators are needed.
In addition, missiles of the complex have homing heads and, in principle, can work even if the radar illumination has lost its target, the operator decides on this. And you can also launch a rocket to capture the target at the point specified by the operator And much more, but the S-200 has been removed from service, and what about modern complexes You are not supposed to know

[loki565]

It was necessary to close the flight zone over the entire territory of the country and then bring down all suspicious objects, Or, like the Americans did not interfere with air defense.

[4ekist]

I think no. Moreover, the time for identifying the target was clearly not enough. If only visually in clear weather.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: 4ekist

time to identify the target was obviously not enough

And how long does it take to identify? You obviously aware of this question, right?

[huntsman650]

An experienced operator who accompanied different goals will be able to. Also according to the parameters of movement, speed is possible. The speed of a cruise missile and an airplane are different.

[G⁣eo]

Quote: huntsman650

An experienced operator who accompanied different goals will be able to

The operator of the installation, stationary (actually) located near the largest airport in his country - do you think the first time he saw a Boeing on radar?

[huntsman650]

How do you know who was sitting there))) dreamer))) Have you seen the marks from the rocket on the IKO and aircraft of various types? A person asked a question whether it is possible to distinguish a rocket from a Boeing, and you are stuck off topic. I am about Form, and you are about Yerema. When the cat has nothing to do .....

[G⁣eo]

Quote: neri73-r

Specialists explain

There are none here. And judging by the lack of intelligible comments on this topic (to confuse a rocket with a Boeing) in general in all media, there are basically no air defense specialists, they are fake.

[Lord of the Sith]

В of american The media presents a complete chronology of events related to striking a passenger airliner

It is clear where the star-striped ears stick out. They all know something, even more than Iran.

[Thrifty]

Who cares what calculation Thor shot down the plane? These are now purely Iranian domestic problems!

[Andrey77]

Denis Okan https://lx-photos.livejournal.com/442054.html have an opinion.
Everyone concludes, but this is a review from the perspective of the pilot.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Andrey77

Denis Okan https://lx-photos.livejournal.com/442054.html have an opinion.
Everyone concludes, but this is a review from the perspective of the pilot.

He reasoned correctly and also sinned either on a missile / terrorist attack and on a sudden power outage. But as we already know, the first missile hit the cockpit and the train of thought went in the right direction.

at the end of it

Update 2 from 11.01.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX:
Iran officially recognized the downing of its air defense by mistake. Well - the main question is resolved.

[My_log_in]

those. the boxes have not yet been decrypted, but is it already known in the New York Times? Funny Vnaukraintsy would be the first to ring back ...

[Alexander Sosnitsky]

100% setup

[iouris]

Nothing detailed and interesting. Soviet air defense systems, in principle, are not able to select a military target from a passenger side in difficult air conditions. Under the USSR, such situations in the air were impossible. Two flight regimes were envisaged: a) complete peace, b) complete nuclear war. As a result, if the United States has claims against the state that is armed with such air defense systems, flights of all aircraft should be prohibited.
The Iranian calculation of the air defense system completed the task of covering the facility. The Soviet missile launched in a bearded year worked normally. Turns out it's bad. In fact, the calculation deserved encouragement. The operator is now an expert in his (Iranian) field. The fact that a passenger plane was shot down is bad, very bad. Political responsibility for this lies with Trump. Only for some reason he drops it all the time. Technologically, the result is the responsibility of ICAO, Iranian flight management services, airline management and crew commander. But this issue should be considered in court.

[vvvjak]

Quote: iouris

Soviet air defense systems, in principle, are not able to select a military target from a passenger side in difficult air conditions

Well, you bent it. Even on Igla-type MANPADS there is a "friend or foe" responder. If interested, you can familiarize yourself with the "foolproof system" on the example of the "BUK" complex

[iouris]

The system "friend or foe" Soviet and export - two big differences. Any system is outdated. I would like to see how you would act in this situation at the operator's place if you participated in hostilities. Firstly, it's still scary, and secondly, the available time budget practically does not allow to think.

[vvvjak]

Quote: iouris

The system "friend or foe" Soviet and export - two big differences

I objected to the account of Soviet systems in principle (as you pointed out). Everything stands on its own complexes and works great, and civil aircraft are a priori accepted by "their own" (if it is stupid not to turn off the system by hand). In theory, export air defense systems should have their own "friend or foe" system for each country separately (or this function is completely absent). Indicated a link on "BUK" y - apparently "banned"

[Irina Klyuchnikova]

I think we need to remember the words of Kuchma, after Ukraine shot down our plane over the Black Sea, without even apologizing. A human life is a pity, but we will not be likened Svidomo.

[Andrey77]

As a result, they apologized. And paid compensation. Yes, not right away. Yes, under pressure from the European Union. But admitted and paid. This is a plus for Ukraine, they could have let it go.

[Livonetc]

Then Russia was the largest creditor of the ruins.

[Usher]

Quote: Andrey77

As a result, they apologized. And paid compensation. Yes, not right away. Yes, under pressure from the European Union. But admitted and paid. This is a plus for Ukraine, they could have let it go.

what is the plus when apologies need to be requested?

[Andrey77]

In ancient times, they threw a glove. And apologies were demanded in a much grosser form.

[Usher]

now is not a distant century.

[Andrey77]

The question is philosophical, has the right to discussion. Aw, schoolchildren! How do you like the EGE essay. Subject: Now is not a distant century.

[1959ain]

Strictly speaking, the firm conviction that the tragedy with the UIA plane crashed at Tehran's international airport is nothing more than a brilliantly conducted operation of the special services, it is clear which country, which is largely repeating the story of the Malaysian MH-17, has not left since the news of the crash . Immediately, as if on command (like ?!), riots erupted in Iran, their ultimate goal having no less than a change of power in the country. And, in particular, a touching and extremely timely appeal to Donald Trump's local “Maidan”, containing a Farsi text: “Guys, I'm with you!” No, sir, of course, no one had prepared anything in advance! Iranian fighters, who were not able to inflict any significant damage to the American warriors, send two hundred people from almost all over the world in one fell swoop, "confusing" a passenger plane with a cruise missile. Do you believe that ?! And here it is - a missile, moreover, a “necessary” missile in a given situation ... Here we are already dealing with the aerobatics of a secret war, with a special operation organized perfectly.

[Andrey77]

To recruit the operator of the SAM of the Islamic Revolution Corps? Theoretically, yes. And his superiors?

[1959ain]

We leave aside the purely technical oddities and inconsistencies regarding the incident with the Ukrainian plane. It seems “suddenly”, at the most necessary moment of the “missing” communication and professional qualities of the air defense soldiers, who “did not make out” the difference between Boeing and Tomahawk. As well as completely inexplicable details such as obtaining a UIA airliner permission to take off in a situation where the sky of Iran should have been "cleared" of any potential random targets to the maximum ... Most likely, you need to look in a completely different direction. The one who carried out the launch knew very well who the rocket would hit - didn’t it occur to you? Alas, almost any person can be ironically motivated if necessary: ​​not to buy, so to intimidate, blackmail the lives of relatives, in the end. Is it unbelievable? Why, then! No less incredible, at least, than the distinctive “strings” that stretched from the Turkish military, guilty of a deadly attack on our Su-24 in the skies of Syria, to the participants of the “Gulen” conspiracy, which, again, was again a clear US special operation. Well, absolutely unbelievers are invited to simply recall the events in Iraq.

[Andrey77]

SAM operators stupidly bought, and then removed? Or the whole calculation of missiles?

[iouris]

Even from the history of the USSR, we know how, after 1985, the army was used in the struggle for power to discredit competitors and what this led to for the USSR. Theoretically and practically in Iran there can be a sharp political struggle for power, in the process of which political opponents can be eliminated and weakened by proxy.

[1959ain]

The American General Tommy Franks, who led all the coalition forces at the first stage of the invasion of this country, admitted without any hesitation: the United States simply bought the victory in this war. The “coolest” Yankees in this campaign were not paratroopers or seals, but groups that came into contact with Saddam's generals and offered them millions of bribes. After that, according to Franks, letters were sent to him in which these "die-hard fighters against American imperialism" swore eternal allegiance to the United States. And they surrendered the country, bastards! Almost without a single shot, given that, according to many military experts, the capture of the same Baghdad could become a natural Stalingrad for the American occupiers. Alas, the postulate that in the East any fortress will inevitably fall if the assault weapon, loaded with gold, was fair at all times and has not lost its truth today. It is very likely that someone in Iran, having decided to play some “undercover games” with Washington, simply overestimated himself and strongly underestimated the overseas “partners”. By the way, the “mopping up” of the military leaders, which became uncomfortable for some, goes on: on January 11 in Iraq’s Karbala, the leader of the People’s Mobilization Forces, Taleb Abbas Ali al-Saedi, who was the closest ally of the deceased along with Kassem Suleimani Abu Mahdi, was killed al-Muhandisa. Without any Americans, mind you. Raging on the streets of Baghdad now shouting “Down with the regime!”, “Death to the dictator!” And “We are now united!” (Well, yes, “we’re too big at once”, “get gang” ...) the crowds were simply not “registered” in the original arrangement. But when did the United States conclude such deals without a double bottom and, moreover, honestly carried them out?

[xGibSoNx]

The American General Tommy Franks, who led all the coalition forces at the first stage of the invasion of this country, admitted without any hesitation: the United States simply bought the victory in this war. The “coolest” Yankees in this campaign were not paratroopers or seals, but groups that came into contact with Saddam's generals and offered them millions of bribes.

AND! Well, that is, in Syria, people rush to embrasures just like that, for an idea? With shouts of Ur for the homeland? And Assad is fighting exclusively against "blacks" who are exclusively black or dull or yellow? Any war is money! The question of who bought whom in this context, well, is not at all appropriate .. Especially when it comes to the actual seizure of the country by another country. If not bought, the price would simply be determined by the number of lives to a different extent. That's all.

[Operator]

The most interesting thing is that since the take-off, a standard transponder worked on board the Boeing - the Flightradar website has a flight plane route and the moment the transponder is turned on / off. The question is simple: when did the transponder turn off - before the start of the anti-aircraft missile or after?

If before, someone turned it off (using a software bookmark) or drowned it out (using an electronic warfare drone). In the first case, the blame for the deaths of passengers and crew lies with the airline, in the second - with the United States.

When the transponder was inoperative, the Boeing ceased to be reflected as a civilian aircraft for a combat crew of the Tor air defense missile system, which rightfully shot down an air target that did not respond to friend or foe requests.

[tlauicol]

yeah, dig your theory further until you dig in completely -
type: turned off the transponder and began to decline, making a sharp turn to the right, etc. etc. The same is visible along the trajectory, and in time all this nonsense easily beats - Suspecting something was wrong, the operator makes a request, then START (10sec + 10sec) - but when did he manage to hit the plane? when did he dive? and the second rocket when he was already on the ground?
collect nonsense, conspiracy theorists

transp. went out when hit

[Andrey77]

On the Ukrainian passenger, by default there was no Iranian military friend or foe.

[Strashila]

"The NYT claims that the missile hit the side after it transmitted the last signal." The Iranians initially talked about a decision time of 5-10 seconds.
Questions have not disappeared.
And if you track the route, the plane began to change course towards the IRGC facility.

from KP

[tlauicol]

Yes, they fly there all the time - fifty flights could be shot down. there is nothing but a monkey with a grenade - that’s the whole plot

[Strashila]

It’s clear that they fly.
Here, the signal termination was not the last.
I proceed from the printed one, the signal disappeared, and only then the rocket flew in.
What should think in the IRGC.
One leader was killed.
Attempted assassination attempt on another.
And until the heap flies towards the IRGC base, the plane with the transponder turned off, after not a big rocket exchange of views with the Americans.
The score goes real for seconds.
In fact, we must wait for the official decryption, which was originally.

[tlauicol]

Even your picture refutes your own conclusions

[Strashila]

The picture appeared as an option for the development of events, before the publication of new information.
It is necessary in fact to wait for the conclusion of the commission on the results of the decoding of the recorders.
What was originally.

[tlauicol]

The Iranians themselves said that the signal was received by three ground stations, and you are looking for a conspiracy

[Antidote]

How many are holding a candle. Both in the comments and in the article.

[Andrey77]

This is not your resource.

[ender]

In general, all discussions have slipped into a kind of "Battle of psychics", where hereditary experts in the 10th generation investigate mysterious crimes. predicting the future and looking into the past, looking for ominous traces of dark forces

[signifera]

Or there was someone on board or something that they missed during the landing, and the value is so great that they sacrificed the entire board - passengers and crew. And now they will all blame it on the error, provocation, and more.

[kupitman]

You can talk as much as you like about why the operators of the complex pointed to the liner. There is one fact - this is an unforgivable mistake. The IRGC or the leadership, let them figure out who is to blame and how to punish the guilty.
I hope that the right conclusions will be drawn from the tragedy, Iranian air defense personnel will undergo additional training and such errors will not be repeated.
At one time, the Americans shot down an Iranian civilian airliner, they did not even punish the perpetrators, but recognized the fact only a week later.
Iran even quickly recognized, only 3 days.

[Vitalian]

Oh, the whole thing is dark .. And we are unlikely to find out the truth.! But Iran will not be "sweet" now, they will persecute! It is no coincidence that the United States and Israel have temporarily quieted down and are waiting to forget how they killed the famous Iranian general (there was one of the presidential candidates in Iran and the fourth most important politician) ..
It is unlikely that we will learn the whole truth, as with a Boeing shot down over the Outskirts ..

[Andrey77]

And what truth do you want to know? Iran officially admitted that it shot down by mistake. Point.

[Vitalian]

Quote: Andrey77

And what truth do you want to know?

True, she is always alone ...! Who framed, that’s the question ..

Quote: Andrey77

Iran officially admitted that it shot down by mistake. Point.

On take-off (a couple of minutes) to bring down such a huge target and there were many civilian liners, could there be five more for good? Isn't it strange ..
Well done, of course, but internal proceedings will be tough there ..
This hype is now a year, at least, until they forget the killed Iranian general (the fourth most important politician and military)

[xGibSoNx]

Not casual, the United States and Israel have quieted down for a while

Um .. As far as my memory serves me, after this incident, I don’t remember much of the statements by the Russian Federation on this matter .. literally right up to the moment Iran recognizes the fact ...

[Vitalian]

Quote: xGibSoNx

Um .. As far as my memory serves me, after this incident, I do not particularly remember the statements from the Russian Federation on this issue.

And what can Russia say? We, like no one, know what’s going on there and it makes no sense to talk .. We dig ourselves into Syria and prepare for attacks And all

[iouris]

Quote: Vitalian

But Iran will not be "sweet" now, they will persecute!

Exactly. Zelensky will "hound" Iran and there will be screened films with his participation in Persian for petrodollars.

[Vitalian]

Quote: iouris

Quote: Vitalian

But Iran will not be "sweet" now, they will persecute!

Exactly. Zelensky will "hound" Iran and there will be screened films with his participation in Persian for petrodollars.

Well, the outskirts of its will not miss ... They will scream about the "hand of Moscow", etc. Begging for more loans ..
But of all the "interested parties" .. One Israel, as always on the sidelines, giggles in silence and prepares for the next step to destroy Iran ..

[Jack O'Neill]

New details of what happened are presented.

The plane was gaining altitude, and during all this time there was a radio exchange with the air traffic control service of the airport. At the moment when Boeing reached a height of 2438 meters (and all this time it was displayed on the radar screens), the last signal was recorded. This happened approximately 183 seconds after takeoff.

These New Details everyone knew from the very beginning.
There is such a wonderful resource: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ps752.

 Show / Hide text

New details, a week ago ... For whom do they keep people?

Recall that Tehran previously stated that it was communications problems in the air defense units that led to the strike on the Boeing "after the passenger plane was mistaken for an American cruise missile."

So these are the problems of Iran, that their connection does not work. It was necessary to close the skies for civil courts, since you simply cannot keep in touch.
They scored on safety measures, as a result, they got a downed Boeing with passengers.

[xGibSoNx]

They scored on safety measures, as a result, they got a downed Boeing with passengers.

In this whole story, it is this question that worries most! The Iranians are not so stupid .. Why are there so many questions, and sometimes quite "childish". Are they sure they scored on the precautions? Or...

[Jack O'Neill]

And are they surely scored on precautionary measures? Or...

Fired amers.
Waiting for an answer.
The sky is not closed.
Yes, they scored.

[Flurry]

Thor also has a fully automatic mode. He could stupidly stand on the machine, and the operator could yawn / go down. Perhaps they decided that at that time there could be no civilian aircraft in the air and therefore turned on the machine.
And yes, even the first versions of the Torah are controlled by computers and on the screens marks of targets are already displayed with full information about the course and altitude. Only a hand-held and alternatively gifted operator will not be able to distinguish the CR from the liner. They have everything else - and signature, and height, and speed in this case.

[Andrey77]

Stand in the machine? Do you represent the airport? Echelons? And who should the machine gun shoot at?

[Old26]

Quote: svp67

And yet, what was this "TOP" guarded there so that he had only five seconds to take it, if the route of civilian flights passes nearby? There are more and more questions. And how strange it is that it was the IRGC who "got involved" in this story, not the Army, but the IRGC.

This research missile base of the IRGC was guarded by precisely the air defense units of the IRGC.
True, placing your base 24 km from the airport and almost 15-20 km from the flight route is not a smart decision.
And you’re right, Sergey, there are more and more questions ... And there is no answer to them yet

Quote: 4ekist

1) "... CD does not fly over the enemy's territory at altitudes of 2000 meters, the operator did not know about it or did not want to know?" - Who told you that?
2) "... And how can a mark from a huge liner be taken for a mark from a CD?" - Silently !!!

Andrew! The whole point of cruise missiles is precisely that they go at an ultra-low altitude, sometimes with rounding the terrain. Remember the altitude of the Iranian-made cruise missiles that attacked the Saudi oil complex. It was on the midget, below the level of destruction by the Patriot complex, which did not lead to their interception. And then suddenly the "mythical American cruise missile" suddenly goes at an altitude of 2000 km. probably in order to be immediately shot down, since the flight of the KR is usually straight-forward or with minor deviations at subsonic speed, but in any case at altitudes of no more than 100-150 m
And the second one. A mark from a cruise missile with a mark from an airliner can be confused only in a few cases
1. The operator is sleeping and not looking at the radar
2. The operator is drunk
3. The operator has no qualifications. And even then, as an ordinary person, he could see that the mark "big"

Quote: sibiryk

An interesting version, but what did the United States UAV do so deeply over Iran? That is the question. Question to the Iranian pvoshnikov. What is the air defense system then?

Judging by these tragic events - either none or so unprofessional that it makes no sense to speak. Then all the Iranians' talk about "we will tear the Americans like Tuzik a heating pad" in relation to air raids is not worth a damn

Quote: dvina71

Why exactly TOP?
The 9M330 missile launcher has 14kg .., but the entire lower front of the aircraft is missing from the assembly of the airplane’s body. Is there enough 14kg for such damage?

HZ, but the defeat, as I understand it, was TWO rockets

Quote: Antidote

There, the height and speed were a little more

Of course. Our ship was already EMNIP was on the echelon and at cruising speed. Here he actually only took off.

Quote: Aleksandr21

All the same, the Boeing fell in Tehran

It is more correct to say that to the west of Tehran, Yet to the IRGC base from the airport is about 24 km. It was shot down at a distance of 12 km. That is 12 km from Tehran. Suburb or satellite city

[Robert]

Quote: Old26

Judging by these tragic events - either none or so unprofessional that it makes no sense to speak. Then all the Iranians' talk about "we will tear the Americans like Tuzik a heating pad" in relation to air raids is not worth a damn

If you look at the site of the alleged crash site and a bunch of rubbish that is passed off as a downed plane, it will be clear that all analytics about the Iranian air defense, cruise missiles, the IRGC base, Iranian air defense operators, and so on turns into nothing. But on VO it is customary to procrastinate on topics imposed by zombies on the media, especially when it comes to Ukraine and other "ponpidos" political entities.
Learn more here:
http://911tm.9bb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1923&p=15

[Observer2014]

What does "Secret military base of the IRGC" mean with the air defense system? Well, I'm talking about how can such a base be secret? And the radars are there and all that. Such a base can be secret until the first activation of the air defense system.

[kriwo.alek]

In fact, so far everything has been written on the water with a pitchfork. The investigation has not yet begun. It’s not like finding out who bit an apple from two people, especially since one has crooked teeth. Not the fact that the connection could well be broken from outside.
Who benefits from this? Yes, the same am. Moreover, the technique now fully allows.

[Operator]

Quote: Tlauicol

The same is visible along the trajectory, and in time

Well, give the timing of the Boeing flight, the operation of the transponder and the launch of the rocket - because so far nothing is "visible" (except for the information of the New York Times newspaper about the hit of the rocket on the plane after the transponder stops working).

[Lipchanin]

Quote: private person

it just flew on him the one who should not have flown a carrier or carriers of classified information.
Reply

Take higher, drug courier with a load of MANPADS
To paraphrase, DO NOT look at night amerskie fighters

[Old26]

Quote: Observer2014

What does "Secret military base of the IRGC" mean with the air defense system? Well, I'm talking about how can such a base be secret? And the radars are there and all that. Such a base can be secret until the first activation of the air defense system.

Well, if you believe open information, then this is the base on which work was carried out with missile systems. And of course it was covered by an air defense system. And the expression "Secret military base" is rather a tribute to tradition

[xGibSoNx]

There is still no sense in discussing news about the disaster with a civilian plane in Iran at VO .. I tried to read the first two news on the topic .. Finally, the pipe .. In one, for almost 500 comments there was a discussion of the incident in Socialistbury! (what does aviation have to do with it, I don’t understand). In another, also on many comments, a discussion began about other air incidents. In general, a continuous flood. But as I see, the topics of the conspiracy theories have not calmed down, according to this one more throw. For example, Iran originally planned a similar incident to divert some attention and mitigate a possible retaliatory strike from the United States! Or, for example, they wanted to set up a base for the United States, like they were trying to bring down our missiles and shot down a civilian side .. In any case, both points are just as worthy of discussion, like all other conspiracy topics discussed here. Have fun.

[Moreno]

The personal data of passengers on this flight are not presented

[pm4]

Quote: sibiryk

An interesting version, but what did the United States UAV do so deeply over Iran? That is the question. Question to the Iranian pvoshnikov. What is the air defense system then?

That's it. If you think logically and see a map, how could a UAV or a missile system appear in the region of Tehran without early detection?

[seagl]

The article with "theirs" details does not inspire confidence, starting with this: the fall time of the last debris is 7 minutes = 420 seconds from a height of 2500 meters, a radius of 500 meters.
A skydiver in 10 seconds is reduced in free fall by 500 meters. Considering even speed when climbing, can it be 7 minutes? And right after every single fragment with a stopwatch watched, timekeepers-heromants?
If there is a lie, then why the rest can not be so?

[Cossack 471]

Svidomo has already begun to draw a version with a "Russian trace" and here once the Iranians confessed! Such a bummer ....

[seacap]

It is almost impossible to completely "cut off" the connection with the SDA, except that by destroying the machine, the connection is repeatedly duplicated, the radio station has digital coding, even if there is such an anachronism as the P-123, and it has 4 fixed frequencies, when to cover the object, a wire connection is required, there is also a telecode, etc., not a single launcher calculation, in any country in the world, can independently make a decision to launch, unless it produces a fire effect on the covered object or joint venture, again, strict instructions and restrictions, and again on command from the BKP. Incl. conversations about the lack of communication seem to be of little value and this is at the level of the "sofa"

[Andrey77]

I don’t remember anyone reading a book about KGB snipers. -Do you see the purpose? -I see. -Well eliminate. -What does it mean to eliminate? -Well, you understand. - No, I don’t understand, the order will be? -Stay Connected.
The chief is afraid to give an order, but the sniper also does not want to answer.

[seacap]

Quote: Andrey77

The chief is afraid to give an order, but the sniper also does not want to answer.

Too "muddy" history, this "accidental mistake" too timely, this disaster, I think, will never be fully investigated and made public, will be among others, like a liner over the Indian Ocean, like a Donetsk provocation and many others like that " accidental incidents ", very even man-made, will appoint extreme executors and quickly carry out the sentence.