Military Review

"Hypersensitivity" of Iranian air defense. European commentators on the downed Boeing

109

Tehran admits that the Ukrainian side of the Boeing 737-800 was shot down, as the Iranian air defense considered the aircraft a "hostile target."


On January 11, the General Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces announced the unintentional downing of a Boeing-737 missile by an air defense missile. In a statement, the military noted that the plane was shot down "by accident", the human factor became the cause of the strike.

The reason for this error was the aggravation of relations with the United States: after all, the number of flights of American military aircraft has increased markedly. This circumstance led to "increased sensitivity" among Iranian air defense units, the General Staff said in a statement.

In addition, the military explained that this board flew near an important IRGC facility.

The Iranian authorities promised to bring to justice all the perpetrators of the tragedy, and Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said that this disaster occurred at the time of the crisis caused by "American adventurism." Mr. Zarif expressed his condolences to the families of the victims.

As a result of the Boeing disaster, we recall that 176 people died. Earlier, Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau claimed that the plane was shot down by an Iranian missile: this is the intelligence of Canada. A similar version was given by B. Johnson in Great Britain. Finally, Mike Pompeo said that the United States also considers probable the downing of the Ukrainian Boeing by Iran. The US media wrote that the plane could be shot down with missiles fired from the Tor air defense system, and the Bellingcat group on January XNUMX found a video on the network that “allegedly” captured the explosion in the air.

Now Iran intends to transfer the Boeing-737 “black boxes” to an independent laboratory in France.

"Hypersensitivity" of Iranian air defense. European commentators on the downed Boeing

Flight recorders of the downed Boeing-737

European network commentators are thrilled by this news and draw peculiar parallels with other planes that have crashed.

Newspaper readers "Daily Mail" indignant:

Macbook Airman:

“Well, at least they finally admitted it - an accident or intentional. "Russia has never recognized its involvement in the passenger plane, which it shot down !!"

henryford1958:

“He just flew out of Tehran airport, how could he be an American bomber ?!”

TH Hutchinson:

"Error? Airlines fly on the same routes at the same time day after day. They knew that it was an airliner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sleeper service:

“It is clear that the Iranian missile did it. No more questions. ”

Imperator Exultis:

“I’ll tell you: these Russian missiles are brilliantly shot down by civilian airliners ... Perhaps this is all they can hit.”

bmrpost:

“There is no evidence that this was a mistake. Aircraft fly from Tehran airport at low altitude. "


On the website of the German edition Merkur.de You can find the following comments by commentators.

unkrautstecher:

"Airliner shot down on take-off? .. I underestimated the stupidity of the Iranian military."

Selin Maurer:

“Iran is again showing its true face as a killer, and no country is doing anything about it. You can’t help the victims by talking ... "
Author:
109 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. bar
    bar 11 January 2020 15: 12
    +14
    "Error? Airlines fly on the same routes at the same time day after day. They knew that it was an airliner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    For the sake of fairness, I note that this airliner did not take off "at the same time", but with a delay of one hour.
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 11 January 2020 15: 42
      +36
      In 1988, the Americans shot down an Iranian A300. I flew exactly on schedule, along a dedicated international corridor. We decided that they were being attacked. They admitted the destruction of a passenger plane a week later. The report was partially declassified six months later at the end of 1988, the second part in 1993. The commander of the ship was awarded the Order of the Legion of Merit, the actions of the crew were recognized as correct.
      1. bar
        bar 11 January 2020 15: 45
        +11
        team actions recognized as correct.

        Of course. Carriers of true democratic values ​​cannot be mistaken in principle.
        1. Astronaut
          Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 11
          +2
          Carriers of true democratic values ​​cannot be mistaken in principle.

          I would say "peddlers")
      2. opus
        opus 11 January 2020 19: 00
        +6
        Quote: YOUR
        In 1988, the Americans drove down the Iranian A300. He flew exactly on schedule, along a dedicated international corridor. Decided they were being attacked

        1. At the time of the "downing" the US Navy cruiser "Vincennes" was in Iranian territorial waters. in fact, it was open hostilities against Iran.
        under the pretext of protecting Kuwaiti tankers from attacks by belligerent Iran and Iraq

        2.
        The US government said the Iran Air airliner was mistakenly identified as an Iranian Air Force F-14 fighter.
        is an excuse for idiots.
        confuse the A-300 and F-14 can only a full deer. WELL OR CONSCIOUSLY (of which I am sure)
        Quote: bar
        For the sake of fairness, I note that this airliner did not take off "at the same time", but with a delay of one hour.

        So what?
        Americans explained the same thing
        Flight IR655 departed from Bandar Abbas at 10:17 IRST, 27 minutes late Scheduled (09:50).


        Quote: Americans about the downed A-300
        similarity of the flight profile of the liner with the alleged attack profile of the Iranian fighter.

        belay
        1. Astronaut
          Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 12
          0
          1. At the time of the "downing" the US Navy cruiser "Vincennes" was in Iranian territorial waters. in fact, it was open hostilities against Iran.

          The Nazis also destroyed civilians during the fighting
          1. opus
            opus 12 January 2020 02: 20
            +5
            Quote: Astronaut
            Fascists too

            amendment "Nazis", the Nazis did not destroy
            Il manifesto dei fasci di combattimento is the work of futurist Filippo Marinetti and national syndicalist Alceste De Ambris.
            In the political section
            Universal suffrage;
            Proportional representation at the regional level;
            Female suffrage;
            Establishment of national economic councils;
            Dissolution of the Senate of Italy;
            Formation of National councils (ministries) of labor, industry, transport, health, communications, etc.
            In the social policy section:
            Introducing an 8-hour workday;
            Establishment of the minimum wage;
            The participation of workers in production management;
            Strengthening the influence of trade unions;
            Repair and reconstruction of railways, as well as the construction of new ones;
            Revision of the Disability Insurance Bill;
            Reduce retirement age from 65 to 55 years.
            In the military section:
            The creation of a short-term service in the national police with special defensive duties;
            Nationalization of military factories;
            Peaceful but competitive foreign policy.
            In the finance section:
            Strong progressive capital tax;
            The seizure of all church property and the abolition of all dioceses, which bear a huge responsibility for the nation and the privileges of the poor;
            Revision of all contracts for martial law;
            Review of all military contracts and seizing 85% of their profits.

            and so, yes.
            Nazis (Doenitz Wolves, or Goering's "children"), yes.
            -all in a row.
            Nuremberg
            1. Astronaut
              Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 23
              -5
              amendment "Nazis", the Nazis did not destroy

              Those. in your opinion, the German troops invading the USSR on June 22, 1941. - weren’t fascists?
              1. opus
                opus 12 January 2020 02: 34
                +7
                Quote: Astronaut
                1941 - weren’t fascists?

                no.
                They were Nazis.
                They joked on ours, when they were called and said, this is to pasta
                And the Italians were very offended when they were called "Nazis": "We have nothing in common with these people."
                1. there was no "fascist" party in Germany, there was
                Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP); abbr. NSDAP, abbr. in translation - NSNRP or NSRPG
                Nazism is not a German invention, it originally originated abroad and came to us from there ... The philosophy of Nazism, the theory of dictatorship were formulated a hundred years ago the greatest Scotsman of his time - Carlyle, the most revered of the political prophets. Subsequently, his ideas were developed by Houston Stuart Chamberlain.. There is not a single basic doctrine ... of Nazism, on which the Nazi religion is based, which would not be ... at Carlyle, or at Chamberlain. Both Carlyle and Chamberlain ... are truly the spiritual fathers of the Nazi religion ... Like Hitler, Carlyle never betrayed his hatred, his contempt for the parliamentary system ... Like Hitler, Carlyle always believed in the saving virtue of dictatorship.


                - M. Sargsyants. “Thomas Carlyle and the Divine Paramedics - Building Instructors” for the poorest English

                2.In Italy, there was a fascist party (Partito Nazionale Fascista; PNF)
                3. The confusion is due to Mikhail Ilyich Romm ...
                for the sake of rhyme, he named his film
                "Ordinary Fascism"

                shopping mall "ordinary nazism" - does not sound like that in Russian. ear cuts
                5. there were also "phalangists", this is Franco in Spain, before 1973, moreover.
                The USSR called this regime fascist and demanded its blocking, through the UN.
                result = 0 was

                ====================
                Fascists (Italians), as a rule, did not commit atrocities, even in Ethiopia
                1. Astronaut
                  Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 36
                  -5
                  I do not care what they called themselves, my grandfather called them fascists and I call them ALL fascists and Germans and Italians!
                  1. Astronaut
                    Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 39
                    +1

                    And this is a poster of the 41st year. And Romm has nothing to do with it!
                    1. opus
                      opus 12 January 2020 03: 28
                      +4
                      Quote: Astronaut
                      And this is the poster of the 41st year

                      1.Do you directly pulled him out of 41 or from Google 2019?
                      2. year 1939 .. I don't see "fascist reptile" and "her death" too




                      Letter from the Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) I.V. Stalin to the Reich Chancellor of Germany A. Hitler:

                      21 1939 of August
                      {{* Передано В. М. Молотовым послу Германии в СССР Ф. Шуленбургу 21 августа в 17 час.}}

                      Reich Chancellor of Germany Mr. A. Hitler

                      Thank you for writing {{** See Doc. 582.}}.

                      I hope that the German-Soviet non-aggression agreement will create a turn towards a serious improvement in political relations between our countries.

                      The peoples of our countries need peaceful relations among themselves. The consent of the German government to conclude a non-aggression pact creates the basis for the elimination of political tension and the establishment of peace and cooperation between our countries.

                      The Soviet government instructed me to inform you that it agrees to the arrival of Ribbentrop in Moscow on August 23.

                      J. Stalin

                      WUA USSR, f. 0745, op. 14, p. 32, d. 3, l. 65.

                      Year of crisis. 1938-1939. Documents and materials in two volumes. Compiled by the USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 1990. Document No. 583.
                      "fascists" in the letter of Joseph Vissarionovich - I do not observe
                  2. opus
                    opus 12 January 2020 03: 18
                    +5
                    Quote: Astronaut
                    I do not care

                    spit if that makes it easier. The right to spit is not enshrined in our Constitution, but I think there will be no problems with Basmanny justice in this matter.
                    My grandfathers had 4 directs (along the lines of father-mother), in 1941, 1945 of them did not live until 2 - 3 (two), one (1947rd, from the father's line) died in XNUMX, the bullet in the lung moved and broke the artery.
                    I can’t know what they called.
                    My mother’s grandfather lived until 1990, had a medal "For Courage", and took a German prisoner. he always told how he took prisoner German
                    =====================
                    Quote: Astronaut
                    and I call them ALL fascists and Germans and Italians!

                    and then what did they forget about the Romanians? Garda de Fier, it’s worse, worse than the Germans, especially in Ukraine (Odessa)
                    Romanian power established in this territory for two million years

                    It is no secret that I do not intend to lose sight of what I have acquired. Transnistria will become a Romanian territory, we will make it Romanian and expel all foreigners from there. In the name of realizing this goal, I am ready to bear all the burdens on my shoulders

                    ======================
                    I find it funny when illiterate people call the mutts of Ukraine "Fascists" (OR "NAZIS") ... you shouldn't give dividends, although black dividends, to those who are not worthy of them.
                    "ordinary nationalists" in / in Ukraine, of the most disgusting kind, and
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 12 January 2020 02: 58
          0
          Quote: opus
          similarity of the flight profile of the liner with the alleged attack profile of the Iranian fighter.

          This is generally an outrageous lie. The attacking plane has a flight profile with acceleration from top to bottom, well, and the speed is appropriate, the Iranian A300, on the contrary, was gaining altitude, I'm not writing about the mark from the target. AOP A300 times 10 times at least more than an EOP F14. Either a cool layman or a dumbfounded addict can not see this.
          Specially shot down.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 12 January 2020 07: 03
              +1
              You would be more careful with unrealistic threats. Anyway, it’s more accurate with statements, here are serious people, after reading your comment I’ll add, basically.
              1. opus
                opus 12 January 2020 15: 16
                0
                Quote: YOUR
                You would be more careful with impossible threats

                1. Well, threats can always be fulfilled, sooner or later, in one way or another.
                2. This is not a threat, but a warning
                3.A you take a closer look, if you take, for, something, then make sure that this is what you thought
                Quote: YOUR
                here are serious people, after reading your comment I’ll add, basically.

                Serious people don’t lie, and they don’t give out the American quotation given by me as mine
        3. bayard
          bayard 12 January 2020 03: 24
          +2
          To understand the circumstances of the incident, one must remember that the Tor air defense system is a short-range complex with a radar detection range of the order of 35 - 40 km. and a range of 12 km. That is, the airliner did not enter the detection zone immediately after takeoff, but entered the affected area only for ... presumably 1 - 2 minutes. There was no time to make a decision and identify a target. All calculations were wound up in anticipation of a raid from the Kyrgyz Republic and American aviation ... besides, this air defense system could cover an object in an autonomous / relatively autonomous mode, without operational communication with civil aviation dispatchers ... and the "target" can leave the affected area, time there is no agreement ... and the situation is military - Iran has just launched a massive missile attack on US bases in Iraq ...
          And if you consider that the calculations of the air defense missile system probably received a cheat like "Do not let Allah miss the strike!" + very little time to make a decision ... It's a pity for people ...
          It is also possible that the IRGC has its own air defense (short-range) means not tied into a single information field of the IR air defense, and this means (presumably "Tor") ... worked.
          It is necessary to restore order in their air defense forces ...
          1. opus
            opus 12 January 2020 04: 12
            0
            Quote: bayard
            . All calculations were wound up in anticipation of a raid by the Kyrgyz Republic and American aviation ... to

            why are you seriously going to argue that this Boeing EPR is comparable to the EPR of the Kyrgyz Republic?

            EPR KR Tomahawk TLAM at around -5 dBsm

            Shl.
            To convert dBsm to m², you need to divide the value in dBsm by 10 and then 10 to raise to the resulting quotient:
            -5 dBsm = 10 ^ (- 0,5) = 0.3162 m² CD "tomahawk"
            opposite
            30-273 m² Boeing, and sometimes up to 600 m²

            COULD it be "confused"?
            and flight profile?
            Quote: bayard
            and the "target" can leave the affected area, there is no time for approval.

            on takeoff, the Boeing had about 300 knots of speed, "quickly" to leave?
            Quote: bayard
            And if you consider that the calculations of the air defense missile system probably received a cheat like "Do not let Allah miss the strike!"

            all this garbage
            1. What is the "such" surprise attack by Tehran?

            half of the country must be flown from a "tank-hazardous" direction!
            2.Bongo (Sergei’s face) read about Iran’s air defense
            from

            to

            3.From a country that was the ONLY one that "intercepted" American drones and "landed" them, as well as a country that sped like a mongrel, the capture of the "famous" American Marines

            I expected more professionalism
            1. bayard
              bayard 12 January 2020 04: 58
              +3
              Quote: opus
              why are you seriously going to argue that this Boeing EPR is comparable to the EPR of the Kyrgyz Republic?

              In no case . After all, I myself am in the past an officer of the combat directorate of the RTV Air Defense. I mean that the IRGC base may have been covered by a single "Tor" complex, without the attached surveillance equipment. That is, he shook his radar. Perhaps even without clear communication with the air defense command posts. Offline. And they were screwed up pretty much - there were so many people crushed at the funeral ... this was also at the funeral of Khomeini - I remember watching their channels. I served alongside them - in Azerbaijan in 88-91.
              So either the nerves lost in the calculation, or just eastern nonsense. But rather all together.
              The IRGC, after all, this is not an army, it is a separate structure with its own subordination and the "Torah" crew may not even be included in the IRGC air defense structure, but was directly subordinate to the IRGC command. As we have, we have the country's air defense, but there is the military air defense, which do not obey each other and practically do not intersect with each other. I, serving at the command post of the air defense division, do not remember that our RIC interacted with the military air defense in combat work. With border guards, air force, civil aviation, even just with military units in the places of deployment of our units - regularly and on an ongoing basis. But with the military air defense - I don't remember. They also have other tasks - covering the troops on the march.
              It looks like these - "covered". It was not for nothing that their General Staff announced that it was necessary to put things in order with the management in the air defense, apparently they realized.
              And if you recall the very first statements of the IRGC after the tragedy that supposedly it was an American drone shot down ... UNDER TEHRAN !!! Allegedly he was targeting someone from the Iranian leadership ... They tried to move the arrows ... and now their heads will apparently fly.
              They framed their leadership tightly.
              And I also expected a much better organization from them.
              1. opus
                opus 12 January 2020 15: 13
                +2
                Quote: bayard
                But rather all together.

                what about me? deer, you do not know how, do not take it. In our country, such "skillful" ones were trusted only at the firing point with the DShK above the shelter (one might say the dugout) above the K-3V, without ammunition, unambiguously.
                "tra-ta-ta" said the Asian machine gunner, ... hrhrum, kryat Kolesnikov's machine answered quietly
                Quote: bayard
                They framed their leadership tightly.

                Damn they and we firmly framed. Highly.
                I report: I spoke with my friends as Jews, there is almost joy (not clouded by the victims, yes), and so: they expect that the confrontation will end soon .. in their favor
          2. YOUR
            YOUR 12 January 2020 07: 17
            -1
            SAM radars are not designed to search for targets, only as a last resort, a narrow beam of the directional pattern does not contribute to this. Several air defense systems are combined into batteries or battalions, where there are reconnaissance means of a Kupol-type radar, information from which is sent to the Ranzhir automated control system and from them target designation to the air defense system.
            What happened to them, the reason why they suddenly fired at the plane QUESTION?
            1. bayard
              bayard 12 January 2020 15: 25
              +1
              The "Tor" combat vehicle includes a coherent pulse radar with a circular view for target detection. The detection range of the F-15 is about 25 - 27 km. , respectively, she could detect Boeing 737 at a range of about 35 - 40 km. This is a detection station. Own. Onboard. On the same machine, there is also a guidance station that captures and tracks the target, and provides missile guidance.
              I talked about the fact that if this combat vehicle worked autonomously, performing the task of covering the IRGC base, then it also searched for the target by an onboard radar of detection, the capabilities of which are extremely limited in range, in comparison with the air defense on-duty means. If the calculation of the air defense system did not have a channel for exchanging data on the air situation outside its own visibility zone, then it could (it turned out that it could!) Take the international board as an enemy target (combat excitation factor) and since the time the target was in the visibility zone was extremely limited, and the time spent in the affected area is even shorter - maybe some tens of seconds, he decided to attack.
              The lack of combat interaction and data exchange between Iran’s air defense and the IRGC, and in my opinion, became the cause of this incident.
  2. FORCE 38GB
    FORCE 38GB 11 January 2020 15: 19
    +14
    Iran pleaded guilty, it’s clear with that .. But maybe the States will take at least part of the blame !? How are those guilty of the root initially (from the murder of Suleymani) in this whole situation in principle !? Although yes, what am I talking about .. Nonsense .. Conscience and the States - these words are far from each other ..
    1. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 11 January 2020 15: 37
      +12
      The US leadership generally believes that in view of the exclusivity of their country, they have the right to never apologize to anyone!
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 11 January 2020 15: 25
    +9
    I remember back in Soviet times, I served in the air defense system, the communications forces, the forwarding agent to the telegraph operator delayed brought a telegram of special urgency, about the flight of the GDR squadron from repair, as a result, the soared squadron was forced to turn back ..
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 11 January 2020 15: 35
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      the soaring squadron is forced to turn back

      Well that happened.
      Worse when the plane discovered, as a result of all rubbish, flew and sat in the center of the Capital!
      It was .. complete disgrace, from which no one wanted to languish. Such "commanders" then nestled at the top.
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 11 January 2020 16: 47
        +12
        At the very top, from the Kremlin there was a categorical ban to demolish from the sky the violator of the airspace of the USSR. The provocative actions of the mishandled labeled Cossack. Flew, as a result, epaulettes from Soviet generals who do not agree with the actions of the hunchback gang. We cleaned the clearing for the bourgeois coup. Cadres decide everything, they well remembered and acted.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 11 January 2020 16: 56
          +3
          Quote: Essex62
          Cadres decide everything, they well remembered and acted

          Yes, the title frame was not in vain marked with a "stigma". Covered us abruptly, I want to believe, not irrevocably.
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 12 January 2020 07: 03
          +2
          Quote: Essex62
          At the very top, from the Kremlin there was a categorical ban to demolish from the sky the violator of the airspace of the USSR.

          The commander (former) of the ZRP told me that no one wanted to take responsibility for giving the command to destruction. Although for the landing of this fruit it was enough to fly over it, including the afterburner. Rust chose his route in such a way that he was constantly (most of the time) either over buildings or over highways and his fall could cause material damage and death of innocent people.
          And the fact that it was a private plane practically eliminated some significant terrorist attack ...
          But, all the same, the Russian "maybe" did not remain idle ...
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 14 January 2020 09: 18
            +1
            And to me the adjutant of the commander of the air defense of the Moscow Military District, in response to a reproachful joke about the paving stones of Red Square, hissed: "We were forbidden."
            On the route there were sections where his cops from Kalash could bring down. What does it mean to be afraid of responsibility? Are they military or where? Just an order not to touch was.
            It is possible to cram any amount of strongly explosive into a light motor. And if in the window of the tallest house on Lubyanskaya or Old Square .... Damage to the reputation of the Soviet government is not compensated! All such candy wrappers gradually changed the minds of Soviet people, twisted. Therefore, a ride at 91m huckster.
      2. bayard
        bayard 12 January 2020 03: 44
        +2
        Quote: rocket757
        Worse when the plane discovered, as a result of all rubbish, flew and sat in the center of the Capital!

        Rota Waterfall found Rust's plane over 35 km. from the border (walking at low altitude), through the entire area of ​​responsibility of the Tallinn RTV Air Defense Brigade, he was provided with unaccompanied escort. But not a single general dared to bring down teams - after the Korean Boeing 747 no one wanted to risk it, everyone was blowing water.
        I was on a military internship in the Tallinn brigade a few months after that event and the brigade commander showed us everything on the map in detail.
        And it so happened that no one dared to shoot him down, but there was nothing to intercept and force to land - the fighter has a minimum speed twice that of Cesna. Later, to intercept such low-altitude and low-speed targets, the air defense divisions began to attach squadrons of Mi-24 combat helicopters to the border air defense divisions. Our division received a Mi-24 squadron withdrawn from Afghanistan - the pilots are just animals ... dashing guys. How did their helicopters later come in handy ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 12 January 2020 09: 43
          +3
          There were not so many incidents known to violate our air borders .... nobody succeeded in landing, but they shot down everyone .... such a time then was, such is the reality.
          The country's leadership has a solid position !!! The military has a clear understanding that it should!
          When tagged and then, everything changed a lot, swam ... then the military became very sour. It happens always and everywhere, in similar circumstances. The military, if I do not go clearly against what is the essence of rebellion, lose all the guidelines, the ability to make the necessary decisions. In short, as always, the fish is rotten from the head ....
          1. bayard
            bayard 12 January 2020 15: 44
            +2
            What could the military do against the Politburo and the KGB of the USSR?
            The rotten head decided to build capitalism for itself and privatize the public property. And purposefully went to this.
  4. iouris
    iouris 11 January 2020 15: 29
    -9
    Iran is to blame. But he is not to blame. Iran’s air defense system is outdated and does not have a state recognition system. Anyone who runs the risk of flying in mid-air during periods when a country has bristled, awaiting a US air strike, should be ready to face a missile. Air defense systems calculations just shoot at everything that looks like a target. Who really is to blame is the air carrier.
    1. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 11 January 2020 15: 39
      -9
      Recognizes friends and foes by the debris on the ground. Very comfortably!
    2. Avior
      Avior 11 January 2020 15: 44
      +6
      Your conclusion is unexpected.
      Nobody canceled flights, the airport wasn’t closed, Lufthansa and others flew out before that, and even about the attacks on the Americans it’s still not clear, the plane was gaining altitude along the established corridor, but the air carrier is your fault
      hi
      1. iouris
        iouris 11 January 2020 15: 50
        0
        Quote: Avior
        No flights were canceled, the airport was not closed,

        Yes. And this is wrong. However, it is the air carrier that is directly responsible for the safety of passengers. The consumer must file a lawsuit against the carrier and demand compensation, and the carrier must prove the absence of his fault and file a claim with the guilty party.
        1. Avior
          Avior 11 January 2020 16: 03
          +7
          I think there will be an interstate agreement on this matter and there will not be any lawsuits against the carrier, as it was before in similar situations when the Americans shot down an Iranian airliner, or in the case of the Siberia company Tu154, or when terrorists blew up a Russian plane from Egypt.
          There were no claims against carriers.
          And the one who is suing must prove the specific fault of the company.
          I think the Iranians will pay compensation, especially since their people were almost half there, the problem is not in the money, for any state the compensation payments themselves are not very large, I do not think that for Iran it is a lot of money, the problem is in reputation, and not in money, if only in money, I think Iran would recognize it almost immediately, apologize and pay compensation, but in the situation with Iran, an acute phase of the conflict with the United States was superimposed, so Iran did not recognize it right away.
    3. shahor
      shahor 11 January 2020 18: 30
      +5
      Quote: iouris
      Who really is to blame is the air carrier.

      Sorry, but they wrote nonsense. State recognition. Well, where does the civilian liner? It has a transponder on it. And the country's air regulator is responsible for ensuring flight safety in the sky, which, if it considers the situation tense, should close the airport for flights. Iranian dispatcher allowed the departure. What does the carrier have to do with it?
      1. iouris
        iouris 11 January 2020 23: 05
        -1
        The Iranian dispatcher could not know the plans of the military. The military did not think about civilians. ICAO is not thinking about anything at all. But should the carrier and crew commander have brains? You, when (if) put passengers in a personal car, are responsible for their safety. An airline operating in such an explosive region is obliged to proceed from a realistic scenario for the development of the situation (which is three times worse than the pessimistic one), or, at worst, insure risks. In the end, the purchase of a ticket is a document confirming the existence of an agreement under which the carrier undertakes to ensure the safety of the passenger. But passengers did not have an agreement with Iran.
        Why are you handing out gingerbread cookies, are you an expert from what area? At least to what extent are you familiar with the issues that you are discussing?
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 12 January 2020 00: 52
          0
          No need to transfer blame from the Iranian military to civilian
        2. shahor
          shahor 12 January 2020 03: 14
          -2
          Quote: iouris
          The Iranian dispatcher could not know the plans of the military.

          This is what I’m talking about. The utmost disagreement in the actions of the military and civil aviation authorities. And such consistency is the basis of the flight safety of any country. Such interaction exists everywhere, and in Russia too. As for Iran, I agree with the expert’s assumption about what happened. The bottom line is that the plane took off on 06.07/06.12. in the morning. The transponder disconnected at 6.00. At XNUMX - the beginning of the farjah morning prayer, the most important for Muslims. War - war, and prayer - according to the schedule, in accordance with which the calculation of the anti-aircraft guns operated. The torus was switched from manual, during the prayer period, to automatic mode. In automatic mode, Thor could not identify the passenger plane, because the transponder signal does not recognize. Defined the object as a threat and ... that's it. This is not even gouging, it is a consequence of local customs, which, as it turns out, are not always safe. And - lack of professionalism. It never occurred to any of the anti-aircraft gunners to think about the features of the operation of Thor in automatic mode.
    4. opus
      opus 12 January 2020 04: 40
      +2
      Quote: iouris
      Iran’s air defense system is outdated and does not have a state recognition system.

      Crap nonsense
      The Tor-M1 air defense system has a special “friend or foe” recognition signaling system
      reacts to "Silicon-2 (2M)" or "Password" (product 62)
      they
      recognition system Mk. XII ....
      Modes "1", "2" and "4" are used only for military purposes, and modes “3 / A”, “C” and “S” - in the interests of civil aviation
      Thor "eats" "3 / A", "C" and "S" otherwise no Lufhansa would fly over us
      judging because the Iranian Torahs are modernized, and significantly

      Everything is normal there, if they haven’t done it again. as was the case with the Syrians
      1. Boeing was spanked by the aerospace forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), these "Torahs" are in service with the IRGC (the IRGC is not part of the structure of the Iranian Armed Forces, being a completely independent structure,
      and the air defense forces of the IRGC ... mmmmm. a lot of ambition is not enough.
      2.profile profile

      result:

      Quote: iouris
      Air defense systems calculations just shoot at everything that looks like a target. Who really is to blame is the air carrier.

      fool
      Are you out of your mind?
      1.What did the "air carrier" violate? Iranian, international in Ukrainian?
      2. So these sheep next time and our board will be knocked down. Do you write like that too?
  5. Garris199
    Garris199 11 January 2020 15: 33
    -4
    It looks like a filigree setup. I think the Americans were well aware of the characteristics of the TOR air defense system. It seems that the plane was specially put under attack.
  6. knn54
    knn54 11 January 2020 15: 36
    0
    If we draw historical parallels, then the fact of shelling from an anti-aircraft gun, from its territory, of an airplane with Molotov in 1942, when he was returning from London, is interesting.
    The area was instantly cordoned off and carefully combed. Alas, to no avail.
    In the 70s, one material fell into the hands of. The provocative shelling of Soviet territory that led to the Winter War was made from a Soviet cannon. The calculation was in Soviet form and communicated in Russian. After several shots, they curled up and drove deep into Finland.
    According to a random witness, Karelian, a citizen of Finland.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 12 January 2020 00: 53
      0
      The winter war did not begin because of this shelling, it was a maximum excuse
    2. Andy
      Andy 12 January 2020 01: 14
      0
      Well, a Finnish citizen is a valuable witness. And where were the Finns that they had a Soviet cannon in the rear quietly rides? Bullshit
  7. Avior
    Avior 11 January 2020 15: 40
    +4
    It is impossible to believe in the deliberate attack of the liner by the Iranians, this is someone's stupid and ridiculous accusation.
    Almost half of the Iranians were on board, if it suddenly became clear that it was intentionally, this is a big blow to the IRGC, even if the missile accidentally hit, it’s an unpleasant situation first of all for the IRGC, and it is impossible to believe that the IRGC deliberately shot onboard, where half of the Iranians are simply unrealistic.
    It is not clear, by the way, what the Canadians were on board, it seems that the specialists working in Iran flew out after aggravating relations with the States and it was not clear what else Trump would think of, But the accusation that they were shot at was also ridiculous.
    1. Dude
      Dude 11 January 2020 15: 53
      0
      It is impossible to believe in the deliberate attack of the liner by the Iranians, this is someone's stupid and ridiculous accusation.
      In fact, the IRGC recognizes the launch as intentional.
      The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) claimed responsibility for the crash of Boeing 737-800 Ukraine’s International Airlines near Tehran, the IRNA news agency reported, citing a statement by the IRGC Air Force Commander General Amir-Ali Hajizade. “We are fully responsible for this, and no matter what decision the authorities make, we will obey him,” he said.

      According to him, Iran’s air defense system took the Ukrainian plane for a cruise missile. Hajizadeh blamed the air defense system for the crash. After the system took the passenger airliner as an enemy object, the operator had to report this to the command. However, due to communication problems this was not done, the operator independently decided. “Either the jamming system worked, or the network was busy, but he could not communicate. He had the opportunity to make a decision within five seconds. Unfortunately, he made the wrong decision and launched the rocket on purpose, ”the general said.

      https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2020/01/11/820364-sistema-pvo-irana
      1. Avior
        Avior 11 January 2020 17: 27
        +1
        There are accusations that attacked, allegedly knowing what exactly is the liner
        Read the third article in the top
        Officially, there were no such accusations, everyone is talking about the unintentional attack of the liner
        1. Dude
          Dude 11 January 2020 17: 29
          0
          Quote: Avior
          There are accusations that attacked, allegedly knowing what exactly is the liner
          Read the third article in the top
          Officially, there were no such accusations, everyone is talking about the unintentional attack of the liner

          In this sense? Of course, they thought they were attacking a military target. The attack itself was deliberate, and the goal determined was categorically erroneous.
          So, I just misunderstood you, sorry.
  8. Strashila
    Strashila 11 January 2020 15: 44
    -2
    "Tehran admits: the Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 was shot down because the Iranian air defense considered the plane a" hostile target "." But why it considered it to be an open question.
    Decoding of recorders will probably give an answer.
    The crew talks in the cockpit.
    The operation of all aircraft systems.
    How flew and where.
    After receiving the maximum information, conclude that there is only the fault of the Iranian military in the tragedy or in this there is a share of the aircraft crew.
    Only then make all decisions on compensation.
  9. marshes
    marshes 11 January 2020 15: 52
    +2
    I love detective series, especially those, on preliminary interrogation under a pile of evidence, the suspect confesses and immediately begins to cooperate with the investigation, it is true or fiction that figs know him, SNG serials are suspected of being "containers" of evidence and he goes unconscious, like life. how to prove it.
    There are a huge number of British detective series, perverted murders and confusing traces, a feeling that already in Britain they have already killed everyone. laughing
  10. Vladimir M
    Vladimir M 11 January 2020 15: 52
    +1
    There is also a very interesting point. If Russia from the first minutes began to be harshly accused of shooting down an aircraft over Donbass and "dragged" to court without evidence, then Iran was "gently" led to a confession of guilt. Now the United States can raise a howl to ban the supply of defensive weapons (the same air defense) to Iran.
  11. fruit_cake
    fruit_cake 11 January 2020 15: 58
    +1
    about Russia as expected that they would rush to yell, creature
  12. Shteffan
    Shteffan 11 January 2020 16: 10
    +6
    The 21st century is in the yard, but they can’t determine the civilian airliner. There are all kinds of fire spoilers, and on the locator screen you can see that the target is in the set, it’s flying slowly, it’s glowing like a Christmas tree. I think this case and the case with Il20 show us like the Arabs and Persians with professionalism in the army, in particular in air defense. THEY BEAT, BEAT, AND WILL BE beat, while yesterday's collective farmers in the army without proper training. This applies to all Arabs.
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 12 January 2020 00: 30
      0
      I completely agree. The Iranians have not learned anything from the experience of the wars of the Arab countries with the Western ones. Where the first blow is always from the air. And carelessness and economy in this matter is very fraught. Who is who and the military should know who, where and from where they fly over the country. Where is the civil aircraft with a transponder, and where is the mark from an unknown aerial object. Whom to shoot down and who not. And then it turns out some kind of "Makhnovism", and not an air defense system. As in an old joke. We taught you to shoot from the air defense system, and then turn as you want.
  13. Old26
    Old26 11 January 2020 16: 27
    +5
    Quote: Garris199
    It looks like a filigree setup. I think the Americans were well aware of the characteristics of the TOR air defense system. It seems that the plane was specially put under attack.

    Can't get over yourself and admit that the Iranians shot down? Is it necessary to bring the "American" base into the mess in Iran's air defense? The distance from the border with Iraq is half a thousand kilometers. Can you tell me how the Americans put him in jeopardy? Or, at the same time, they did it so that the Iranian calculation suddenly went crazy?
    1. Slon379
      Slon379 11 January 2020 16: 45
      0
      And here is the base? Our plane was brought under its own attack. Maybe someone flew there and hid behind a Boeing?
      1. shahor
        shahor 11 January 2020 18: 34
        +1
        Quote: Slon379
        Maybe someone flew there and hid behind a Boeing?

        According to some, it was an Israeli pilot.
  14. WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 11 January 2020 16: 32
    +4
    There are definitely specialists in the air defense form who served in the air defense. Please clarify:
    1. Does the combat aircraft, cruise missile and passenger liner for 179 people look the same on the radar screen?
    2. According to the official statements of the IRGC, the operator had 5 seconds to make a decision, he could not contact anyone due to "interruptions in communication" and, as a result, fired. In general, how does this correlate with the actual practice of conducting the service? Can an operator make a decision to launch a rocket? I have always believed that the commander of the crew is vested with such powers.
    3. Is it impossible to track where the goal came from and its evolution in height? After all, a plane was shot down quite near the airport. It seems that he even entered the echelon, that is, he gained height with all the consequences.

    I apologize in advance for the fraud.
    1. qQQQ
      qQQQ 11 January 2020 20: 59
      0
      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      There are definitely specialists in the air defense form who served in the air defense.

      Shilka’s radar, the same as on the Buka’s launch, target mark - a sharp pencil with a length of 3-5 mm, a large plane is a little brighter, but this difference can be determined with extensive experience, the radar is narrowly directed, the deviation in azimuth is literally a fraction of a degree, at a distance 20 km will give a difference of several km, the same in elevation - height, i.e. if two planes fly with an interval of 2-3 km, then two are not visible at the same time, and given the small rotation of the antenna, then again you can catch one, and take another to escort, but this is military air defense, and the old one may be better for new ones.
    2. O. Bender
      O. Bender 11 January 2020 21: 59
      +4
      The type and nature of the target, the flight paths of the GA planes, the SAM systems must know how to do our father, confuse and knead porridge from the many information received from the RLO means, only a layman, ignoramus, there is complete lack of professionalism in calculating the air defense systems, comrades from the Middle East of Isaudi Arabia actually confirm it’s not the first time I’ve got a handshake in the possession of complex types of weapons. Here’s the Kalash RPG that’s theirs, but I'm sorry for everything that plugs into the outlet ....
  15. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 11 January 2020 16: 44
    -2
    From the very first publication on VO about this news, I did not write anything about this, only read the comments. And as the song says: - "he cried, then laughed, then bristled like a hedgehog," because he could not answer unequivocally for himself that this was a provocation or a combination of tragic circumstances mixed with unprofessionalism, imperfection of the air defense system and stress associated with the known circumstances of the Iranians and the careless maneuvering near the strategic facility by the Ukrainian crew, which provoked firing on the civilian side. The fact that the plane was shot down or suffered from a collision with another aircraft, I had no doubts at all. What are my personal arguments for provocation. - first, this is the crisis between the usa and Iran, the second - the board took off with an hour late for unknown reasons, the third - the Ukrainian board, the fourth flight route passed near the protected air defense facility and the fifth - the board allegedly changed course towards the protected object, for return to the airport. Are there any other arguments in defense of the version of the provocation, such as: a drone covered by a Ukrainian side? I don't know, but maybe there was. By the way such a provocation has already happened, its algorithm has been worked out, they could share and participate too. American bases in the region from which they could carry out operations like fleas on a dog. Moreover, in the immediate vicinity. The drone could quickly climb to the track at low altitude, merge with the Ukrainian side on the radar screen, provoke it to turn towards the guarded object, and after launch, leave the line of fire. It sounds fantastic, of course, like a diferamb to the omnipotent "hegemons" and their henchmen, but with the Iranian air defense system it is still possible to create such a thing as the Syrian one.
    1. Avior
      Avior 11 January 2020 17: 31
      0
      . board departed late for an hour for unknown reasons

      By quite understandable
      During preflight preparation, they deducted or overloaded and part of the cargo was unloaded to the required weight. I don’t know what specifically, but the delay was because of this
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 11 January 2020 20: 30
        0
        As far as I know, weight loading is automatically tracked at the registration stage. Decisions are made at this stage because there are penalties for delays due to the fault of the airport. At least this is the case here in Europe. And there are also regulations for baggage allowance in excess of the norm for each aircraft. Otherwise, many flights would be delayed for this reason.
  16. evgen1221
    evgen1221 11 January 2020 16: 47
    -1
    Is it interesting, on command, can a transponder change its signal from civilian to military? (I explain my thoughts - during mobilization-war, civil aviation becomes military-requisition, of course, part remains in the civilian sector, but in order not to replace transponders or defendants with purely military models and not shovel a half-plane picking them out, the regime may change remotely from civilian on the military (in order to facilitate tracking and generally coordination of the newly mobilized and originally military passenger sides, the Air Force and purely passenger sides are on the balance of the Ministry of Defense. And because the American office is Boeing, it’s possible and such a move by their developers, I would definitely put forward such a function would be in avionics in case of mobilization in the army.) So I thought, is such a switch possible? This feature in theory makes it very easy to carry out landmark provocations in peacetime.
    I apologize in advance to the air defense students if I incorrectly stated something technically wrong for my amateurism in the subject.
  17. Wedmak
    Wedmak 11 January 2020 17: 29
    -1
    Well, as if you were annoyed every day, provoked, poured on you by a flood of lies, hypocrisy and accusations ... They put up inadequate demands, while threatening to launch military strikes for failure to comply with these requirements. It is not difficult to imagine the strain of all the military of Iran at that moment. And here the target goes at a low altitude, next to an important object, at the time of a possible attack from the United States. Well, they pressed the button.
    The victims are sorry, my condolences, but the Iranian side can be understood.
    And the readers of the Daily Mail newspaper are dumb.
    1. Shteffan
      Shteffan 12 January 2020 11: 56
      0
      Is it strange that you understand the military of Iran? You can? Mg ... they have an international airport nearby, such a goal flies every hour in their zone of defeat. According to your logic, they had nervousness there all day. So they had to beat all day from heaven then the incomprehensible goals that flew at them. For the day of the Boeing, they should have been so full of 5-10. Why was only one shot down? Is this an explanation for the narrow-minded inhabitants fit.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 12 January 2020 19: 46
        0
        You just now pulled an owl on the globe. Yes, the nervousness was all day. But they fell right at that moment. So something was not as usual.
  18. rusich
    rusich 11 January 2020 18: 05
    +1
    But did the United States admit its mistake or apologize for the Vincennes shot down by the US Navy missile cruiser July 3, 1988, the Iran Air passenger Airbus A300B2-203, IR655, 7 minutes after takeoff from Bandar Abbas. All 290 people on board the aircraft died - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children).
    1. atalef
      atalef 11 January 2020 18: 14
      +3
      Quote: rusich
      But did the United States admit its mistake or apologize for the Vincennes shot down by the US Navy missile cruiser July 3, 1988, the Iran Air passenger Airbus A300B2-203, IR655, 7 minutes after takeoff from Bandar Abbas. All 290 people on board the aircraft died - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children).

      Google to the rescue.
      Recognized and Compensation Paid
      1. opus
        opus 11 January 2020 20: 12
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        Google to the rescue.
        Recognized and Compensation Paid

        clarification. This is not recognition or compensation. This, that would be completely warm feces not smeared.

        Here is more in detail:

        After all
        I will never apologize for the United States of America, I don't care what the facts are


        Reagan called the downing of the Korean plane of the USSR an act of aggression of the vile evil empire against all democratic and civilized humanity
        a crime against humanity that should never be forgotten, "" an act of barbarism and inhuman cruelty

        At the time of the crash, the plane deviated from a course of more than 500 kilometers. According to an investigation by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), the most likely reason for the deviation from the flight route was that the pilots incorrectly set the autopilot and then did not perform proper checks to determine the current coordinates.

        Let me remind you that South Korean flew over the territory of the USSR for a long time

        and here

        cruiser "Vincennes" was in the territorial waters of Iran, of course illegally
        Regretting the loss of life and namein a terrible human tragedy, US government nonetheless formally pleaded not guilty and did not apologize for what happened


        DO YOU FEEL THE DIFFERENCE?
        1. Liam
          Liam 11 January 2020 20: 21
          -3
          Quote: opus
          DO YOU FEEL THE DIFFERENCE?

          And do you feel the difference between an anti-aircraft missile shot at a mark from a radar and an airplane shot down by a fighter located next to the aircraft and clearly identifying the latter as a civilian airliner?
    2. Strelets1
      Strelets1 11 January 2020 18: 23
      +1
      No, they didn’t apologize, the "exceptional nation" does not have the habit of apologizing, even when they are pinned against the wall, and even in those cases when they themselves admit their mistake ... - but apologize !!! ... Never.
      Not for Airbus, with some Persians there, not for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with some Japanese there ...
      If you look from the side - ordinary fascism ... and nothing more ...

      PS Here are some facts and quotes:

      "President Ronald Reagan called the actions of the Vincennes crew a justified defense, stressing that the United States does not consider itself guilty of the incident. Moreover, he even partially blamed the tragedy on ... the Iranian government.

      In 1989, Iran filed a lawsuit against the United States in the UN International Court of Justice, demanding compensation for damage and finding the United States guilty of violating the conventions on international air travel. An amicable agreement between the United States and Iran on this score was signed only in 1996, after which the case was dismissed in court. The United States had to pay about $ 132 million in compensation for its robbery. However, this considerable amount did not dispel the bitterness that was left by the words of US President George W. Bush: "I will never apologize for the United States. I don't care what the facts are."

      But something else was even more egregious. This figure, who seemed to many likeable in Russia, awarded the commander of the cruiser Will Rogers and the officer in charge of the ship's air defense with medals "For Military Merit". With the wording - "For exceptionally commendable actions while performing outstanding service." Rogers was later awarded the Legion of Merit for his successful service from 1987 to 1989. "
  19. opus
    opus 11 January 2020 18: 54
    +4
    Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
    European network commentators are thrilled by this news and draw peculiar parallels with other planes that have crashed.

    The message of the author is not clear?
    1. Why do we need this? Formation of a public opinion?
    just recently (yesterday) an anonymous author
    Quote: anonymous author
    Dutch Foreign Ministry: Most likely, the plane was shot down by Iranian missiles


    Quote: anonymous author
    The phrase "with a high degree of probability" Steph Blok did not specify. He did not specify, by Dutch standards, how much is it likely? For example, 10% will do? Or 30%? Or is it necessarily 80-90%? Then why investigate, if enough interest calculations by Mr. Block.

    2. Why did the author review the current
    Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
    European network commentators
    ?
    why are there no Chinese, Iranians, Japanese, and any Hondurans?
    and "almost Europeans" (vUkraintsy) where is the squeeze of their network commentators?
    / topic not disclosed /
    Quote: bar
    that this airliner did not take off "at the same time", but with a delay of one hour.

    it doesn’t matter, confuse the Boeing-737 passenger with something American - you have to be a monkey with a grenade / rifle

    I had a better opinion of Iran and gave only 10% on such an outcome. Offensively and disappointed.
    1. Strelets1
      Strelets1 11 January 2020 19: 18
      -3
      Quote: opus
      it doesn’t matter, confuse the Boeing-737 passenger with something American - you have to be a monkey with a grenade / rifle


      And who needs to be in order to confuse a passenger Airbus with an Iranian fighter, do not tell me, my dear ...?
      1. opus
        opus 11 January 2020 19: 45
        +6
        Quote: Strelets1
        Airbus with an Iranian fighter, do not tell me, my dear ...?

        "dear" (aside: ugh what disgusting) you are fucking reading
        No. 1 I wrote (and is discussed here) Boeing 737, recently shot down by the Iranians
        No. 2 if you already said a), then do not moo, say B), C) and so on.
        Why are ONLY attracting Americans?
        You are not on Zakharova’s twitter!
        come on drag them here
        Israel, Bulgaria, the USSR, the French with SE-210 (flight AF1611) near Nice: there are many
        Quote: opus

        1. At the time of the "downing" the US Navy cruiser "Vincennes" was in Iranian territorial waters. in fact, it was open hostilities against Iran.
        under the pretext of protecting Kuwaiti tankers from attacks by belligerent Iran and Iraq

        2.
        The US government said the Iran Air airliner was mistakenly identified as an Iranian Air Force F-14 fighter.
        is an excuse for idiots.
        confuse the A-300 and F-14 may only a full deer. WELL OR CONSCIOUSLY (of which I am sure)

        Did I say "dear" rather broadly?
        1. Strelets1
          Strelets1 11 January 2020 19: 49
          -1
          Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?
          1. Liam
            Liam 11 January 2020 19: 51
            -3
            Quote: Strelets1
            Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?

            Naturally did not see. Otherwise, I would not write such nonsense with such aplomb
          2. opus
            opus 11 January 2020 19: 59
            +5
            Quote: Strelets1
            Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?

            K3V operator is my VUS.
            Not only "saw", but also many times accompanied and made conditional defeats, and the Tyr area here TamA - conducted military training.

            and I had relatives, and studied

            What?
            Why are you interested in?
            1. Liam
              Liam 11 January 2020 20: 14
              -5
              Quote: opus
              K3V operator is my VUS.

              Well, write / show how the mark differs from the Boeing, which was at an altitude of 1500 meters above the ground, that is, it just jumped out from behind the radio horizon from the mark from, for example, a Tomohawk. the calculation had to recognize and decide how much time elapsed between detection and firing, what relief was between the installation and the liner route (hills, etc., affecting the radio horizon for a particular installation), the psychological state of the calculation, knowing that they are a priority target in the event of an impact Americans, issues of coordination between the air defense of the IRGC, the air defense of the Iranian army, civil dispatchers, and also share your knowledge whether this particular calculation was "assigned" permanently to that area or was in a hurry transferred there in a few hours to cover the capital in anticipation of the Iranian missile strike on the bases in Iraq and the likely response of the Americans
              1. opus
                opus 11 January 2020 20: 41
                +5
                Quote: Liam
                Well, write / show how the mark differs from the Boeing, located at an altitude of 1500 meters above the ground, that is, just jumped out from the radio horizon from the mark from, for example, Tomogavka

                1. What is there to paint? More specific?
                Soaring passenger Boeing with EPR from 30 to 283 m ^ 2, depending on the azimuthal angle?
                2. TORY- not my VUS, do not scuffle. If so, you need to look (if you understand something)

                and further


                and further


                feel better?
                3.Where are the "drovishki" to the account "andszand the radio horizon "?
                Where exactly were the SN / SOC / BM relative to the airport runway (civilian)?
                Quote: Liam
                MSA TORA

                Shaw for "MSA"?
                Quote: Liam
                At the same time, write

                some untranslatable local dialect.
                Why should I paint this? Yes to you? why on earth?
                the crap you carry here

                Quote: Liam
                how much time the calculation had to recognize and make a decision, how much time passed between the detection and the shot, what relief was between the installation and the liner's track (hills, etc., affecting the radio horizon for a particular installation), the psychological state of the calculation

                blah blah blah
                means that the combat calculation of an all-weather tactical air defense system designed to solve the tasks of air defense and missile defense at the level of the division level ... in general, it is better not to include either SOC, or CH, or the transponder of the state recognition system.
                Tk for your excuses like that: first of all, it will flood its own aircraft.
                After all, such a nervousness will be on the battlefield, the Iranian situation will seem like a lethargic dream, almost a paradise.
                1. Liam
                  Liam 11 January 2020 21: 04
                  -3
                  That is, you are not aware of absolutely all of these defining details, but with aplomb call them deer and monkeys. The quintessence of a couch expert.
                  That the Iranians are still advanced warriors, the news is only for local turbo-triotriots. But from this to the announcement of their monkeys, the distance is great. Such incidents happened not only with them, but also with much more developed militarily countries. From the USA, USSR / Russia, Israel to Italy / France and Ukraine.
                  By the way, a thinking person would ask himself a question: at what level is electronics, radar, etc. on Russian air defense systems, since it is so easy to make a mistake and confuse a civilian airliner for military purposes
                  1. thanks
                    thanks 11 January 2020 22: 36
                    +6
                    Quote: Liam
                    By the way, a thinking person would ask himself a question, and at what level is electronics, radar, etc. on Russian air defense systems, since it is so easy to make a mistake and confuse a civilian airliner for military purposes

                    Can you tell me - at what level is the Russian air defense technology? Or, as always, will you count the micrometers by "microwave"?
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 11 January 2020 22: 40
                      -3
                      Quote: Mersi
                      Prompt

                      By the way. And who taught Iranian air defense specialists how to work with ASEZs?
                      1. thanks
                        thanks 11 January 2020 22: 45
                        +8
                        Quote: Liam
                        By the way. And who taught Iranian air defense specialists how to work with ASEZs?

                        They answer the question with the question ... Do not get off the question - it's ugly! And who taught Iranian air defense - Schnick? Only Iranian air defense know it.
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 11 January 2020 23: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Mersi
                        And who taught Iranian air defense - Schnick? Only Iranian anti-aircraft defense knows.

                        Quote: Mersi
                        No need to get off the question - it's ugly!

                        This is not Newton’s bin. I can tell you this secret, so carefully guarded by Iranian air defense specialists. They were taught to work with TORs by those who sold them to them, that is, Russian instructors. This is always included in the conditions for selling such complex equipment
                  2. opus
                    opus 11 January 2020 22: 55
                    +3
                    Quote: Liam
                    That is, you do not know absolutely all of these details that are decisive, but with aplomb call them deer and

                    man ...
                    and then what are you in yourself?
                    1. You asked, I answered, showed
                    2. You continue to throw the products of processing your intestines on the fan, using absolutely stupid terms as arguments / arguments
                    Quote: Liam
                    . At the same time, describe the possibilities OMS Torah

                    wassat

                    Quote: Liam
                    By the way, a thinking person would ask himself a question: at what level is electronics, radar, etc. on Russian air defense systems, since it is so easy to make a mistake and confuse a civilian airliner for military purposes

                    here is a conversation, as with that monkey.
                    Still "tube", could "distinguish" (following your own logic of thought) airliners from other La.
                    and this is no wonder
                    EPR Boeing, I repeat
                    Quote: opus
                    Taking off passenger Boeing with EPR from 30 to 283 m ^ 2, depending on the azimuthal angle?

                    and F-14 (which are already gone) under 7 m ^ 2
                    Everything else, from NATO, from 2 m ^ 2 and less

                    confuse, taking into account:
                    1. course
                    2. speed (doppler)
                    3. Take-off (not attack)
                    4,5,6
                    -must be a full deer, or scared "short form of the Irish name" William ""
                    Alles Klaer?
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 11 January 2020 23: 03
                      -3
                      Quote: opus
                      men

                      Do Not Behave Like a Fucker
                      Quote: opus
                      EPR Boeing

                      You express your thoughts very chaotically and chaotically. And clearly, clearly and as briefly as possible, state the first sign of an intelligent person.
                      And if it is simpler, so that you would understand for the TOP operator the only way to determine the ESR of a target is that a target with a larger EPR tag is brighter than a target with a smaller ESR.
                      The trouble is that for this you need to have these TWO goals at the same time to compare.
                      If the label is one and especially in conditions of stress and time pressure, the operator has enormous difficulties with this. Great experience and knowledge are needed.
                      And here questions arise for those who taught Iranian air defense, that is, those who sold and trained them complexes
                      1. opus
                        opus 11 January 2020 23: 51
                        +3
                        Quote: Liam
                        You express your thoughts very chaotically and chaotically

                        Well, you really "shine" with ... poison?
                        Have you read yourself?

                        = malice and idiocy
                        Quote: Liam
                        OR, the only way to determine the EPR of a target is that a target with a larger EPR tag is brighter than a target with a lower EPR.

                        1. Not only brighter, but also more
                        2. Doppler (speed), azimuth, altitude change (in +), and not minus, heading angle, civil notifications about take-off, negotiations, responder, transponder, negotiations with the tower, etc., etc.

                        Quote: Liam
                        And here questions arise for those who taught Iranian air defense, that is, those who sold and trained them complexes

                        well yes.
                        Approached the main thing?
                        Padded jackets?
                        So you are kaakla ... damn you would say so, but I have a discussion with the mutant, I spend time
                        idle time
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 11 January 2020 23: 59
                        -1
                        Kill the PTUshnik in yourself.
            2. Strelets1
              Strelets1 11 January 2020 20: 26
              -2
              Liam (Liam) took off the tongue ...
              Quote: opus

              What?
              Why are you interested in?

              I just want to define - here "full deer", "monkey with a grenade" or just "opus" ...
              1. opus
                opus 11 January 2020 22: 41
                +3
                Quote: Strelets1
                I just want to define - here "full deer", "monkey with a grenade" or just "opus" ...

                Well. understandable - Butthurt, typical.
                No arguments, go to the individual
                You "Constantine" should unite with Liam, in eustase or not, decide for yourself.
                1.Kostik asked a question
                Quote: Strelets1
                Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?

                2. Kostya received an answer to a question

                3.Kostik could not realize / comprehend the answer to his own question
                4.Kostik in anger turned to the person, without bringing a single argument in defense of his position / in refutation of mine.
                1 + 2 + 3 + insignificant person with limited mental abilities, spiteful.
                Adieu, come on
  20. Old26
    Old26 11 January 2020 20: 03
    +6
    Quote: Slon379
    And here is the base? Our plane was brought under its own attack. Maybe someone flew there and hid behind a Boeing?

    Who! In the area of ​​the international airport, five hundred kilometers from the Iranian border.

    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    There are definitely specialists in the air defense form who served in the air defense. Please clarify:
    1. Does the combat aircraft, cruise missile and passenger liner for 179 people look the same on the radar screen?

    I’m not a flyman, but I’ll definitely say NO. The reflective surface of each of these aircraft is different. They just CANNOT look the same

    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    2. According to the official statements of the IRGC, the operator had 5 seconds to make a decision, he could not contact anyone due to "interruptions in communication" and, as a result, fired. In general, how does this correlate with the actual practice of conducting the service? Can an operator make a decision to launch a rocket? I have always believed that the commander of the crew is vested with such powers.

    They wrote that 10 seconds. Yes, there was a secret military object of the IRGC nearby, but the mark of the target (Boeing) on ​​the radar screens was only a couple of minutes. Walked from the airport, with climb and transponder turned on. Even if the pilot did the maneuver, this was no reason to bring down the plane. The human factor was superimposed, and it seems to me a low level of preparation of air defense calculations. In general, locating a military facility 2 dozen kilometers from the airport is not the best option. Anything can happen to a passenger plane, as a result of which it can deviate from the course

    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    3. Is it impossible to track where the goal came from and its evolution in height? After all, a plane was shot down quite near the airport. It seems that he even entered the echelon, that is, he gained height with all the consequences.

    It was their task to track. But why not tracked down - a question for the Iranians

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    What personally are my arguments for provocation. - the first is the crisis between the United States and Iran, the second - the board took off an hour late for unknown reasons, the third - the Ukrainian side, the fourth flight route passed near the guarded air defense facility and the fifth - the side supposedly changed course towards the guarded facility, for return to the airport.

    1. The crisis in relations between Iran and the United States has lasted for more than one year. "Hot" stage - yes, for the first time. But if you have already decided to respond to the American provocation (the assassination of a general) with a missile strike, why then, in order to protect others who are not taking part in this (international flights to an international airport), did not close the airspace for a certain period. At least for a day.
    2. The reasons for the flight delay are known. It turns out that the civilian dispatcher is one thing, and the military controlling this zone is another. No coordination?
    3. Yes, at least Honduran. In the same way, the Russian side could have appeared on the spot of the Ukrainian ...
    4. Who is to blame for the fact that the flight route passes near a secret facility? Air carriers, or are the Iranians themselves? Moreover, the airport zone is always replete with possible options for route deviations and the like.
    5. Deviations from the course. Such cases can be several times a day. As an example, a board burned down at Sheremetyevo. Also deviated from the planned course.

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    Are there any other arguments in defense of the version of the provocation like that: a drone hiding behind the Ukrainian side? I don’t know, but maybe it was.

    The Iranians shot down some time ago an American drone almost at the edge of its own territorial waters or on the border itself. And then they gave you the opportunity to circle five hundred kilometers from the border?

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    American bases in the region from which they could carry out the operation like fleas on a dog.

    In this region? In the Near and Middle East? A lot of. I do not argue. But to them from the point of death of the Ukrainian plane more than 500 km. There is nothing in the immediate vicinity. Iranian territory only. How do you imagine such a provocation. then we must admit that Iran's air defense is full of holes, the calculations of the complexes in their professional qualities are close to zero, and all the talk that "if the Americans invade, they will be given a bloodbath" is nothing more than ordinary chatter ...

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    The drone could go to the track at low altitude to quickly gain altitude, merge on the radar screen with the Ukrainian side, provoke him to the lapel towards the guarded object, and after launch leave the line of fire. It sounds fantastic of course

    Not just fantastic sounds. sounds like an attempt to justify Iran’s air defense actions with anything, mythical drones, just not to say directly that Iran’s air defense is to blame. That his level seems to be below the baseboard. Otherwise, how can it be assumed that an enemy drone more than 500 kilometers flew over Iran and was not detected by the radar. Then he climbed up and provoked the Ukrainian plane to turn away. How did this event happen? At 6.10 a.m. Darkness. Visually, this drone is not visible. And the radars that could notify the crew of a dangerous approach to UAVs are unlikely to be installed on a Boeing
  21. LeonidL
    LeonidL 12 January 2020 02: 12
    +2
    Well, here it is worth remembering that the American cruiser once also mistook Airbus for a cruise missile and shot it down ... "The airliner Airbus A300B2-203 of Iran Air made a commercial passenger flight IR655 on the Tehran-Bandar Abbas-Dubai route, but 7 minutes after departure from Bandar Abbas, flying over the Persian Gulf, was shot down by a surface-to-air missile launched from the US Navy missile cruiser Vincennes. All 290 people on board were killed. "And the Ukrainians themselves distinguished themselves by shooting down the S-200 during the exercise Airliner Tu-154M of Siberia Airlines performed a scheduled flight SBI1812 on the Tel Aviv-Novosibirsk route over the Black Sea, but 1 hour and 45 minutes after takeoff crashed into the Black Sea. All 78 people on board ( 66 passengers and 12 crew members) were killed.According to the conclusion of the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC), the plane was inadvertently shot down by an anti-aircraft missile 5В28 of the S-200В complex, launched by the 96th anti-aircraft missileair defense brigade of Ukraine ". Well, about the Malaysian Boeing that was knocked down by the brave Ukrainian missilemen, I say nothing ...
  22. riwas
    riwas 12 January 2020 06: 46
    +1
    US media wrote that the plane could be shot down with missiles fired from the Tor air defense system

    Judging by the hit in the engine, it was a missile with infrared seeker.
  23. Boris55
    Boris55 12 January 2020 08: 15
    +1
    The main thing is that, unlike their "petriots", our technique works, but people feel sorry for them, although, what the hell did they do there, lick Uncle Sam's ass?
  24. Ilya_Nsk
    Ilya_Nsk 12 January 2020 09: 26
    0
    Extremely incomprehensible story! Comrades who what exactly knows about this "TOP"? Vicki writes: "At the same time, the Thor system itself controls the designated airspace and independently captures all air targets not recognized by the" friend or foe "system." Foreign aircraft are not equipped with this system, why all not shot down before or after? Does the "TOP" target type recognize?
  25. LLeonid
    LLeonid 12 January 2020 09: 50
    +2
    A case comes to mind with the Russian plane of Siberian Airlines shot down by Ukraine, flying from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk over the PEACEFUL Black Sea. And when, unfortunately, the valiant Ukrainian warriors, in ABSOLUTELY PEACEFUL TIME, with MASS of FREE TIME, began, UNKNOWN WHY, the "exercises" ... you had “crumpled friends.” And Russia had economic and political “agreements” with Ukraine, which it observed. It had a bunch of close relatives “in” Ukraine among its citizens, strictly intended to continue living with Ukraine in exceptionally good, peaceful interaction! )
    It is worth remembering the reaction of Ukraine to the case, which (in the person of the then President of Ukraine Kuchma) stated LITERALLY the following: "Are we the first or the last? Mistakes happen everywhere ... And not only of this, but also of a larger scale ... DO NOT NEED TO MAKE A TRAGEDY OUT OF THIS ... "(!!!)
    As far as we know today, NONE of the Ukrainian military was "punished" at that time. Well, it's understandable ... It's a "mistake". A "mistake" even so-so ... not of a very "large scale" ... AND THIS happened, even - NOT a "tragedy" (!!!)
    Therefore, Zelensky, with his demand to "find the guilty and punish", can be answered: "Whose cow would bellow, but yours would be silent!"
    Let's take into account: an Iranian specialist, NOT in peacetime, but in the conditions of a MILITARY CONFLICT, and having only 5 (five!) Seconds (!) "To make a decision", WITHOUT CONNECTION due to some kind of malfunction (not dependent on him) made the wrong decision. Accepting a civilian plane, LEFT FOR AN HOUR with a scheduled departure, for an American "cruise missile". Walking in the direction of the military facility it protects.
    And he, it must be admitted, WAS REASONS to make a mistake ... He had no connection, found himself in a temporary time pressure, but he clearly KNEW EXACTLY (since he was near his airport and could not but have a timetable for airliners) that IT TIME there should be NO "civilian aircraft" in the sky!
    And, if now Iran will "punish" its serviceman, then the question will be to Iran: "And if it were really an American cruise missile, and he would not have shot it down without making a sole decision (for lack of communication), what would you THEN they told him ?! "
    In my opinion, Iran here has FULL RIGHT to do as Ukrainian President Kuchma said: "Mistakes happen everywhere" ...
    At the same time, it should be noted: Iran, unlike Ukraine, RECOGNIZED a civilian plane accidentally shot down by it as a TRAGEDY.
    That is, Iran has a CONSCIENCE.
    But Ukraine is clearly "oppressing the line" in unison with the United States: let's say, taking advantage of the tragic event and in view of the American-Iranian conflict, SCARE the Iranian military with the hands of the Iranian leadership! Let, next time, their military will ALWAYS BE AFRAID to launch missiles, defending their homeland!
  26. enky
    enky 12 January 2020 13: 12
    0
    Quote: bayard
    And I also expected a much better organization from them.

    There is complete order with the organization in Iran, you just concentrated your attention on the rocket and the plane, but to see the forest you need to move away from the trees ... The elements of a special operation to change the existing system in Iran are very clearly traced: the elimination of the key leader of the IRGC and a supporter of Iranian independence is strange awareness of the United States about the time and place of strikes with the withdrawal of personnel from objects - inexplicable lack of air defense systems around the attacked objects - a strange choice of secondary targets on the part of Iran - unusually high accuracy of defeat (did anyone highlight it) - strange passivity of the United States after such a slap and the absence of not only retaliation strikes, but also a super mild political assessment of the situation by the State Department - a strange order to non-Iranian formations to cancel any special operations against the United States - a very "successful" shooting down of a civilian plane so skillfully shifting attention from the foreign policy problem IRAN + USA = WAR to internal political revenge FOR K. SULEIMANI = DESTROY NONE OF THE SAME CITIZENS - unusual awareness of Canadian intelligence and a "completely random" video of a missile attack on Boeing - unusual silence of Israel - very handy the riots in Abkhazia distracting the Kremlin and immediately Merkel's urgent visit to Pupin - organization of meetings in Tehranek by British diplomats - "popular" demands for the resignation of the leadership of the IRGC and the Iranian government ... it is possible to continue to collect completely "accidental" coincidences, but it cannot be more obvious.
  27. enky
    enky 12 January 2020 16: 12
    +2
    Quote: Garris199
    It looks like a filigree setup. I think the Americans were well aware of the characteristics of the TOR air defense system. It seems that the plane was specially put under attack.

    A good idea, just how many minuses you have been told, indicates that you got to the point, the trolls got excited for nothing, you need to work out the bread: distract the military-patriotic-minded reader, and discredit those who see the point ...
    1. My_log_in
      My_log_in 13 January 2020 15: 14
      0
      we can assume another option: someone or something did not have time / could not intercept on the ground - it was necessary to "catch up" in the air. If we were talking about a personal sanction / "response" for Suleimani - the defendant would have been taken out on the ground in any other place, the plane would not have been brought down, it is not accepted by them. I think so.
  28. Klingon
    Klingon 12 January 2020 16: 50
    0
    explain to me the stupid who is fumbling: and each civilian side, after all, is the transponder turned on, can it fix the air defense somehow? Is there no civil / military object recognition system? in general, how is the identification of goals? I mean serious air defense like Tor, Buk, S-300/400, not portable, it’s clear what’s in the eye. thanks in advance
  29. kupitman
    kupitman 12 January 2020 22: 35
    0
    Russia is to blame, yeah
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. Jb_swamp
    Jb_swamp 13 January 2020 00: 46
    0
    maybe everything is simple: the pendos flunked the general IRGC, the IRGC flunked someone on the plane. the list of passengers needs to be analyzed. collateral damage didn't really upset anyone.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. Jb_swamp
    Jb_swamp 13 January 2020 00: 50
    0
    the word pendoza, written in Russian, is automatically replaced by the letter s - are topwar admins so kind to these penguins?
  35. Andrew77
    Andrew77 13 January 2020 12: 33
    0
    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    1. Does the combat aircraft, cruise missile and passenger liner for 179 people look the same on the radar screen?


    If the BOR was shot by the TOP ...
    SOC (Target Detection Station) on ТОР М1 gave to the monitor a tied target path (i.e. a line with target serif points) followed by several digits - the number of the target form, degree of danger (determined from the calculated data) and something else ... since the 90th year forgot. Radar mark - such as a spot brighter / darker or larger / smaller, in my opinion, is not reflected on the screen, because The signal comes digitized with a digital computer. I don’t remember what on the screen of the CH (Guidance Station) ... They shot at Boeing after 6 in the morning - i.e. they could look into the television sight, there it is possible to distinguish the KR from the carcass of a passenger liner, but probably they didn’t look. I don’t know how a friend or foe works on export TOPs; most likely, the same system also works with a civil liner transponder.