"Hypersensitivity" of Iranian air defense. European commentators on the downed Boeing


Tehran admits that the Ukrainian side of the Boeing 737-800 was shot down, as the Iranian air defense considered the aircraft a "hostile target."


On January 11, the General Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces announced the unintentional downing of a Boeing-737 missile by an air defense missile. In a statement, the military noted that the plane was shot down "by accident", the human factor became the cause of the strike.

The reason for this error was the aggravation of relations with the United States: after all, the number of flights of American military aircraft has increased markedly. This circumstance led to "increased sensitivity" among Iranian air defense units, the General Staff said in a statement.

In addition, the military explained that this board flew near an important IRGC facility.

The Iranian authorities promised to bring to justice all the perpetrators of the tragedy, and Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said that this disaster occurred at the time of the crisis caused by "American adventurism." Mr. Zarif expressed his condolences to the families of the victims.

As a result of the Boeing disaster, we recall that 176 people died. Earlier, Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau claimed that the plane was shot down by an Iranian missile: this is the intelligence of Canada. A similar version was given by B. Johnson in Great Britain. Finally, Mike Pompeo said that the United States also considers probable the downing of the Ukrainian Boeing by Iran. The US media wrote that the plane could be shot down with missiles fired from the Tor air defense system, and the Bellingcat group on January XNUMX found a video on the network that “allegedly” captured the explosion in the air.

Now Iran intends to transfer the Boeing-737 “black boxes” to an independent laboratory in France.

"Hypersensitivity" of Iranian air defense. European commentators on the downed Boeing

Flight recorders of the downed Boeing-737

European network commentators are thrilled by this news and draw peculiar parallels with other planes that have crashed.

Newspaper readers "Daily Mail" indignant:

Macbook Airman:

“Well, at least they finally admitted it - an accident or intentional. "Russia has never recognized its involvement in the passenger plane, which it shot down !!"

henryford1958:

“He just flew out of Tehran airport, how could he be an American bomber ?!”

TH Hutchinson:

"Error? Airlines fly on the same routes at the same time day after day. They knew that it was an airliner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sleeper Service:

“It is clear that the Iranian missile did it. No more questions. ”

Imperator Exultis:

“I’ll tell you: these Russian missiles are brilliantly shot down by civilian airliners ... Perhaps this is all they can hit.”

bmrpost:

“There is no evidence that this was a mistake. Aircraft fly from Tehran airport at low altitude. "


On the website of the German edition Merkur.de You can find the following comments by commentators.

unkrautstecher:

"Airliner shot down on take-off? .. I underestimated the stupidity of the Iranian military."

Selin Maurer:

“Iran is again showing its true face as a killer, and no country is doing anything about it. You can’t help the victims by talking ... "
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  1. bar
    bar 11 January 2020 15: 12 New
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    "Error? Airlines fly on the same routes at the same time day after day. They knew that it was an airliner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    In fairness, I note that this airliner flew not "at the same time", but with a delay of one hour.
    1. YOUR 11 January 2020 15: 42 New
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      In 1988, the Americans drove down the Iranian A300. He flew exactly on schedule, along a dedicated international corridor. We decided that they were being attacked. Recognized the destruction of a passenger plane in a week. The report was partially declassified six months later at the end of 1988, the second part in 1993. The commander of the ship was awarded the Legion of Honor order, the actions of the team were recognized as correct.
      1. bar
        bar 11 January 2020 15: 45 New
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        team actions recognized as correct.

        Of course. Carriers of true democratic values ​​cannot be mistaken in principle.
        1. Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 11 New
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          Carriers of true democratic values ​​cannot be mistaken in principle.

          I would say "peddlers")
      2. opus 11 January 2020 19: 00 New
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        Quote: YOUR
        In 1988, the Americans drove down the Iranian A300. He flew exactly on schedule, along a dedicated international corridor. Decided they were being attacked

        1. During the “downing”, the US Navy cruiser Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters. in fact, these were open hostilities against Iran.
        under the pretext of protecting Kuwaiti tankers from attacks by belligerent Iran and Iraq

        2.
        The US government said the Iran Air airliner was mistakenly identified as an Iranian Air Force F-14 fighter.
        is an excuse for idiots.
        confuse the A-300 and F-14 can only a full deer. WELL OR CONSCIOUSLY (of which I am sure)
        Quote: bar
        In fairness, I note that this airliner flew not "at the same time", but with a delay of one hour.

        So what?
        Americans explained the same thing
        Flight IR655 departed from Bandar Abbas at 10:17 IRST, 27 minutes late Scheduled (09:50).


        Quote: Americans about the downed A-300
        similarity of the flight profile of the liner with the alleged attack profile of the Iranian fighter.

        belay
        1. Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 12 New
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          1. During the “downing”, the US Navy cruiser Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters. in fact, these were open hostilities against Iran.

          The Nazis also destroyed civilians during the fighting
          1. opus 12 January 2020 02: 20 New
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            Quote: Astronaut
            Fascists too

            amendment "Nazis", the Nazis did not destroy
            Il manifesto dei fasci di combattimento is the work of futurist Filippo Marinetti and national syndicalist Alceste De Ambris.
            In the political section
            Universal suffrage;
            Proportional representation at the regional level;
            Female suffrage;
            Establishment of national economic councils;
            Dissolution of the Senate of Italy;
            Formation of National councils (ministries) of labor, industry, transport, health, communications, etc.
            In the social policy section:
            Introducing an 8-hour workday;
            Establishment of the minimum wage;
            The participation of workers in production management;
            Strengthening the influence of trade unions;
            Repair and reconstruction of railways, as well as the construction of new ones;
            Revision of the Disability Insurance Bill;
            Reduce retirement age from 65 to 55 years.
            In the military section:
            The creation of a short-term service in the national police with special defensive duties;
            Nationalization of military factories;
            Peaceful but competitive foreign policy.
            In the finance section:
            Strong progressive capital tax;
            The seizure of all church property and the abolition of all dioceses, which bear a huge responsibility for the nation and the privileges of the poor;
            Revision of all contracts for martial law;
            Review of all military contracts and seizing 85% of their profits.

            and so, yes.
            The Nazis (Doenitz Wolves, or Goering's "children"), yes.
            -all in a row.
            Nuremberg
            1. Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 23 New
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              amendment "Nazis", the Nazis did not destroy

              Those. in your opinion, the German troops invading the USSR on June 22, 1941. - weren’t fascists?
              1. opus 12 January 2020 02: 34 New
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                Quote: Astronaut
                1941 - weren’t fascists?

                no.
                They were Nazis.
                They joked on ours, when they were called and said, this is to pasta
                And the Italians were very violently offended when they were called "Nazis": "we have nothing in common with these meannics"
                1. in Germany there was no "fascist" party, there was
                Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP); abbr. NSDAP, abbr. in translation - NSNRP or NSRPG
                Nazism is not a German invention, it originally originated abroad and came to us from there ... The philosophy of Nazism, the theory of dictatorship were formulated a hundred years ago the greatest Scotsman of his time - Carlyle, the most revered of the political prophets. Subsequently, his ideas were developed by Houston Stuart Chamberlain.. There is not a single basic doctrine ... of Nazism, on which the Nazi religion is based, which would not be ... at Carlyle, or at Chamberlain. Both Carlyle and Chamberlain ... are truly the spiritual fathers of the Nazi religion ... Like Hitler, Carlyle never betrayed his hatred, his contempt for the parliamentary system ... Like Hitler, Carlyle always believed in the saving virtue of dictatorship.


                - M. Sargsyants. “Thomas Carlyle and the Divine Paramedics - Building Instructors” for the poorest English

                2.In Italy, there was a fascist party (Partito Nazionale Fascista; PNF)
                3. The confusion is due to Mikhail Ilyich Romm ...
                for the sake of rhyme, he named his film
                "Ordinary Fascism"

                maybe "ordinary Nazism" - it sounds somehow wrong in Russian. ear cuts
                5. there were still "phalangists", this is Franco in Spain, and until 1973.
                The USSR called this regime fascist and demanded its blocking, through the UN.
                result = 0 was

                ====================
                Fascists (Italians), as a rule, did not commit atrocities, even in Ethiopia
                1. Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 36 New
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                  I do not care what they called themselves, my grandfather called them fascists and I call them ALL fascists and Germans and Italians!
                  1. Astronaut 12 January 2020 02: 39 New
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                    And this is a poster of the 41st year. And Romm has nothing to do with it!
                    1. opus 12 January 2020 03: 28 New
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                      Quote: Astronaut
                      And this is the poster of the 41st year

                      1.Do you directly pulled him out of 41 or from Google 2019?
                      2. year 1939 .. I do not see the "fascist reptile" and "her death" too




                      Letter from the Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) I.V. Stalin to the Reich Chancellor of Germany A. Hitler:

                      21 1939 of August
                      {{* Передано В. М. Молотовым послу Германии в СССР Ф. Шуленбургу 21 августа в 17 час.}}

                      Reich Chancellor of Germany Mr. A. Hitler

                      Thank you for writing {{** See Doc. 582.}}.

                      I hope that the German-Soviet non-aggression agreement will create a turn towards a serious improvement in political relations between our countries.

                      The peoples of our countries need peaceful relations among themselves. The consent of the German government to conclude a non-aggression pact creates the basis for the elimination of political tension and the establishment of peace and cooperation between our countries.

                      The Soviet government instructed me to inform you that it agrees to the arrival of Ribbentrop in Moscow on August 23.

                      J. Stalin

                      WUA USSR, f. 0745, op. 14, p. 32, d. 3, l. 65.

                      Year of crisis. 1938-1939. Documents and materials in two volumes. Compiled by the USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 1990. Document No. 583.
                      "fascists" in a letter to Joseph Vissarionovich- I do not observe
                  2. opus 12 January 2020 03: 18 New
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                    Quote: Astronaut
                    I do not care

                    spit if that makes it easier. The right to spit is not enshrined in our Constitution, but I think there will be no problems with Basmanny justice in this matter.
                    My grandfathers had 4 directs (along the lines of father-mother), in 1941, 1945 of them did not live until 2 - 3 (two), one (1947rd, from the father's line) died in XNUMX, the bullet in the lung moved and broke the artery.
                    I can’t know what they called.
                    My mother’s grandfather lived to 1990, had a medal “For Courage”, and captured a German. he always told how he captured German
                    =====================
                    Quote: Astronaut
                    and I call them ALL fascists and Germans and Italians!

                    and then what did they forget about the Romanians? Garda de Fier, it’s worse, worse than the Germans, especially in Ukraine (Odessa)
                    Romanian power established in this territory for two million years

                    It is no secret that I do not intend to lose sight of what I have acquired. Transnistria will become a Romanian territory, we will make it Romanian and expel all foreigners from there. In the name of realizing this goal, I am ready to bear all the burdens on my shoulders

                    ======================
                    I am funny when illiterate people in Ukraine call illiterate people “Fascists” (OR “Nazis”) ... you should not give dividends, although black dividends, to those who are not worthy of them.
                    "ordinary nationalists" in / in Ukraine, the most heinous affliction, moreover
        2. YOUR 12 January 2020 02: 58 New
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          Quote: opus
          similarity of the flight profile of the liner with the alleged attack profile of the Iranian fighter.

          This is generally an outrageous lie. The attacking plane has a flight profile with acceleration from top to bottom, well, and the speed is appropriate, the Iranian A300, on the contrary, was gaining altitude, I'm not writing about the mark from the target. AOP A300 times 10 times at least more than an EOP F14. Either a cool layman or a dumbfounded addict can not see this.
          Specially shot down.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. YOUR 12 January 2020 07: 03 New
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              You would be more careful with unrealistic threats. Anyway, it’s more accurate with statements, here are serious people, after reading your comment I’ll add, basically.
              1. opus 12 January 2020 15: 16 New
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                Quote: YOUR
                You would be more careful with impossible threats

                1. Well, threats can always be fulfilled, sooner or later, in one way or another.
                2. This is not a threat, but a warning
                3.A you take a closer look, if you take, for, something, then make sure that this is what you thought
                Quote: YOUR
                here are serious people, after reading your comment I’ll add, basically.

                Serious people don’t lie, and they don’t give out the American quotation given by me as mine
        3. bayard 12 January 2020 03: 24 New
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          To understand the circumstances of the incident, you need to remember that the Tor air defense system is a short-range complex with a radar detection range of about 35-40 km. and a range of 12 km. That is, the liner didn’t enter the detection zone immediately after take-off, but entered the affected area for only ... presumably 1 - 2 minutes. The time to make a decision and identify the goal was running out. All calculations were wound up in anticipation of a raid by the Kyrgyz Republic and American aviation ... in addition, this SAM could carry out cover of an object in an autonomous / relatively autonomous mode, without prompt communication with civil aviation controllers ... and the “target” could leave the affected area, time there is no agreement ... and the situation is fighting - Iran has just launched a massive missile attack on US bases in Iraq ...
          And when you consider that the calculations of the air defense system probably got a cheat like "Do not let Allah miss the beat!" + extremely little time to make a decision ... I'm sorry for the people ...
          It is also possible that the IRGC has its own air defense (short-range) means that are not tied into a single information field of the air defense of the IR, and this means (presumably "Tor") ... worked.
          It is necessary to restore order in their air defense forces ...
          1. opus 12 January 2020 04: 12 New
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            Quote: bayard
            . All calculations were wound up in anticipation of a raid by the Kyrgyz Republic and American aviation ... to

            why are you seriously going to argue that this Boeing EPR is comparable to the EPR of the Kyrgyz Republic?

            EPR KR Tomahawk TLAM at around -5 dBsm

            Shl.
            To convert dBsm to m², you need to divide the value in dBsm by 10 and then 10 to raise to the resulting quotient:
            -5 dBsm = 10 ^ (- 0,5) = 0.3162 m² KR "Tomahawk"
            opposite
            30-273 m² Boeing, and sometimes up to 600 m²

            CAN be "confused"?
            and flight profile?
            Quote: bayard
            and the "target" can leave the affected area, there is no time for approval ..

            on takeoff, the Boeing had about 300 knots of speed, "quickly" leave?
            Quote: bayard
            And when you consider that the calculations of the air defense system probably got a cheat like "Do not let Allah miss the beat!"

            all this garbage
            1. What is "such" a sudden blow to Dr. Tehran?

            half the country must fly from the "tank" direction!
            2.Bongo (Sergei’s face) read about Iran’s air defense
            from

            to

            3.From the country, the ONLY "intercepted" American drones and "landed" thereof, as well as a country that sprinkled like mongrel, captured the "famous" American marines

            I expected more professionalism
            1. bayard 12 January 2020 04: 58 New
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              Quote: opus
              why are you seriously going to argue that this Boeing EPR is comparable to the EPR of the Kyrgyz Republic?

              In no case . After all, I myself am in the past an officer in the combat command of the RTV air defense. I mean that the IRGC base was probably covered by a single Tor complex, without attached detection aids. That is, shook his radar. Perhaps even without a clear connection with the air defense command posts. Offline. And they were pretty well-wound - there, how many people were crushed at the funeral ... there was such a thing at Khomeini's funeral - I remember watching their channels. I served next to them - in Azerbaijan in 88 - 91 years.
              So either the nerves lost in the calculation, or just eastern nonsense. But rather all together.
              The IRGC is not an army, it is a separate structure with its subordination, and the calculation of the “Torah” might not even be part of the IR defense structure, but it was directly subordinate to the IRGC command. As we have - there are air defense of the country, and there is military air defense, which do not obey each other and practically do not intersect with each other. While serving in the CP of the Air Defense Division, I don’t remember that our RIC interacted in combat with military air defense. With border guards, the Air Force, civil aviation, even just with military units at the locations of our units - regularly and on an ongoing basis. But with the military air defense - I do not remember. They also have different tasks - covering troops on the march.
              It looks like these have - "covered up." It was not for nothing that their general staff declared that it was necessary to put things in order with the air defense command, apparently they realized.
              And if you recall the very first statements of the IRGC after the tragedy that supposedly it was an American drone shot down ... UNDER TEHRAN !!! Allegedly he was targeting someone from the Iranian leadership ... They tried to move the arrows ... and now their heads will apparently fly.
              They framed their leadership tightly.
              And I also expected a much better organization from them.
              1. opus 12 January 2020 15: 13 New
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                Quote: bayard
                But rather all together.

                But what about me? deer, you don’t know, don’t take it. We were so trusted that they were “skilled” only at a firing point with a DShK above a shelter (we can say a dugout) above K-3V, to sit unequivocally without ammunition.
                "tra-ta-ta" said the Asian machine gunner, ... hhhrum, kryat quietly answered Kolesnikov’s machine
                Quote: bayard
                They framed their leadership tightly.

                Damn they and we firmly framed. Highly.
                I report: I spoke with my friends as Jews, there is almost joy (not clouded by the victims, yes), and so: they expect that the confrontation will end soon .. in their favor
          2. YOUR 12 January 2020 07: 17 New
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            SAM radars are not designed to search for targets, only in extreme cases, a narrow beam pattern does not contribute to this. Several air defense systems are combined into batteries or battalions where there are reconnaissance equipment for the Kupol radar, information from which is transmitted to the Rangir automated control system and target designation is used for air defense systems.
            What happened to them, the reason why they suddenly fired at the plane QUESTION?
            1. bayard 12 January 2020 15: 25 New
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              The structure of the combat vehicle "Tor" includes a coherent-pulse circular radar station for the detection of targets. F-15 detection range of the order of 25 - 27 km. , respectively, she could detect a Boeing 737 at a range of about 35 - 40 km. This is a detection station. Own. Onboard. On the same machine there is a guidance station that captures and tracks the target, provides guidance to the missile.
              I talked about the fact that if this combat vehicle worked autonomously, performing the task of covering the IRGC base, then it also searched for the target by an onboard radar of detection, the capabilities of which are extremely limited in range, in comparison with the air defense on-duty means. If the calculation of the air defense system did not have a channel for exchanging data on the air situation outside its own visibility zone, then it could (it turned out that it could!) Take the international board as an enemy target (combat excitation factor) and since the time the target was in the visibility zone was extremely limited, and the time spent in the affected area is even shorter - maybe some tens of seconds, he decided to attack.
              The lack of combat interaction and data exchange between Iran’s air defense and the IRGC, and in my opinion, became the cause of this incident.
  2. FORCE 38GB 11 January 2020 15: 19 New
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    Iran pleaded guilty, it’s clear with that .. But maybe the States will take at least part of the blame !? How are those guilty of the root initially (from the murder of Suleymani) in this whole situation in principle !? Although yes, what am I talking about .. Nonsense .. Conscience and the States - these words are far from each other ..
    1. Chaldon48 11 January 2020 15: 37 New
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      The US leadership generally believes that in view of the exclusivity of their country, they have the right to never apologize to anyone!
  3. parusnik 11 January 2020 15: 25 New
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    I remember back in Soviet times, I served in the air defense system, the communications forces, the forwarding agent to the telegraph operator delayed brought a telegram of special urgency, about the flight of the GDR squadron from repair, as a result, the soared squadron was forced to turn back ..
    1. rocket757 11 January 2020 15: 35 New
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      Quote: parusnik
      the soaring squadron is forced to turn back

      Well that happened.
      Worse when the plane discovered, as a result of all rubbish, flew and sat in the center of the Capital!
      It was ... a complete disgrace from which no one wanted to languish. Such "commanders" then nestled at the top.
      1. Essex62 11 January 2020 16: 47 New
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        At the very top, from the Kremlin there was a categorical ban to demolish from the sky the violator of the airspace of the USSR. The provocative actions of the mishandled labeled Cossack. Flew, as a result, epaulettes from Soviet generals who do not agree with the actions of the hunchback gang. We cleaned the clearing for the bourgeois coup. Cadres decide everything, they well remembered and acted.
        1. rocket757 11 January 2020 16: 56 New
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          Quote: Essex62
          Cadres decide everything, they well remembered and acted

          Yes, the title frame was not in vain marked with a "mark". Covered us cool, I want to believe, not irrevocably.
        2. Ross xnumx 12 January 2020 07: 03 New
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          Quote: Essex62
          At the very top, from the Kremlin there was a categorical ban to demolish from the sky the violator of the airspace of the USSR.

          The commander (former) of the ZRP told me that no one wanted to take responsibility for giving the command to destruction. Although for the landing of this fruit it was enough to fly over it, including the afterburner. Rust chose his route in such a way that he was constantly (most of the time) either over buildings or over highways and his fall could cause material damage and death of innocent people.
          And the fact that it was a private plane practically eliminated some significant terrorist attack ...
          But, all the same, the Russian "maybe" did not remain idle ...
          1. Essex62 14 January 2020 09: 18 New
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            And to me, the adjutant of the commander of the air defense of the Moscow Military District, hissed at a reproachful joke about the cobblestones of Red Square, hissed: "We were banned."
            On the route there were sections where his cops from Kalash could bring down. What does it mean to be afraid of responsibility? Are they military or where? Just an order not to touch was.
            It is possible to cram any amount of strongly explosive into a light motor. And if in the window of the tallest house on Lubyanskaya or Old Square .... Damage to the reputation of the Soviet government is not compensated! All such candy wrappers gradually changed the minds of Soviet people, twisted. Therefore, a ride at 91m huckster.
      2. bayard 12 January 2020 03: 44 New
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        Quote: rocket757
        Worse when the plane discovered, as a result of all rubbish, flew and sat in the center of the Capital!

        Rota Waterfall found Rust's plane over 35 km. from the border (walking at low altitude), through the entire area of ​​responsibility of the Tallinn RTV Air Defense Brigade, he was provided with unaccompanied escort. But not a single general dared to bring down teams - after the Korean Boeing 747 no one wanted to risk it, everyone was blowing water.
        I was on a military internship in the Tallinn brigade a few months after that event and the brigade commander showed us everything on the map in detail.
        And it so happened that no one dared to shoot him down, but there was nothing to intercept and force to land - the fighter has a minimum speed twice that of Cesna. Later, to intercept such low-altitude and low-speed targets, the air defense divisions began to attach squadrons of Mi-24 combat helicopters to the border air defense divisions. Our division received a Mi-24 squadron withdrawn from Afghanistan - the pilots are just animals ... dashing guys. How did their helicopters later come in handy ...
        1. rocket757 12 January 2020 09: 43 New
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          There were not so many incidents known to violate our air borders .... nobody succeeded in landing, but they shot down everyone .... such a time then was, such is the reality.
          The country's leadership has a solid position !!! The military has a clear understanding that it should!
          When tagged and then, everything changed a lot, swam ... then the military became very sour. It happens always and everywhere, in similar circumstances. The military, if I do not go clearly against what is the essence of rebellion, lose all the guidelines, the ability to make the necessary decisions. In short, as always, the fish is rotten from the head ....
          1. bayard 12 January 2020 15: 44 New
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            What could the military do against the Politburo and the KGB of the USSR?
            The rotten head decided to build capitalism for itself and privatize the public property. And purposefully went to this.
  4. iouris 11 January 2020 15: 29 New
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    Iran is to blame. But he is not to blame. Iran’s air defense system is outdated and does not have a state recognition system. Anyone who runs the risk of flying in mid-air during periods when a country has bristled, awaiting a US air strike, should be ready to face a missile. Air defense systems calculations just shoot at everything that looks like a target. Who really is to blame is the air carrier.
    1. Chaldon48 11 January 2020 15: 39 New
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      Recognizes friends and foes by the debris on the ground. Very comfortably!
    2. Avior 11 January 2020 15: 44 New
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      Your conclusion is unexpected.
      Nobody canceled flights, the airport wasn’t closed, Lufthansa and others flew out before that, and even about the attacks on the Americans it’s still not clear, the plane was gaining altitude along the established corridor, but the air carrier is your fault
      hi
      1. iouris 11 January 2020 15: 50 New
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        Quote: Avior
        No flights were canceled, the airport was not closed,

        Yes. And this is wrong. However, it is the air carrier that is directly responsible for the safety of passengers. The consumer must file a lawsuit against the carrier and demand compensation, and the carrier must prove the absence of his fault and file a claim with the guilty party.
        1. Avior 11 January 2020 16: 03 New
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          I think there will be an interstate agreement on this matter and there will not be any lawsuits against the carrier, as it was before in similar situations when the Americans shot down an Iranian airliner, or in the case of the Siberia company Tu154, or when terrorists blew up a Russian plane from Egypt.
          There were no claims against carriers.
          And the one who is suing must prove the specific fault of the company.
          I think the Iranians will pay compensation, especially since their people were almost half there, the problem is not in the money, for any state the compensation payments themselves are not very large, I do not think that for Iran it is a lot of money, the problem is in reputation, and not in money, if only in money, I think Iran would recognize it almost immediately, apologize and pay compensation, but in the situation with Iran, an acute phase of the conflict with the United States was superimposed, so Iran did not recognize it right away.
    3. shahor 11 January 2020 18: 30 New
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      Quote: iouris
      Who really is to blame is the air carrier.

      Sorry, but they wrote nonsense. State recognition. Well, where does the civilian liner? It has a transponder on it. And the country's air regulator is responsible for ensuring flight safety in the sky, which, if it considers the situation tense, should close the airport for flights. Iranian dispatcher allowed the departure. What does the carrier have to do with it?
      1. iouris 11 January 2020 23: 05 New
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        The Iranian dispatcher could not know the plans of the military. The military did not think about civilians. ICAO is not thinking about anything at all. But should the carrier and crew commander have brains? You, when (if) put passengers in a personal car, are responsible for their safety. An airline operating in such an explosive region is obliged to proceed from a realistic scenario for the development of the situation (which is three times worse than the pessimistic one), or, at worst, insure risks. In the end, the purchase of a ticket is a document confirming the existence of an agreement under which the carrier undertakes to ensure the safety of the passenger. But passengers did not have an agreement with Iran.
        Why are you handing out gingerbread cookies, are you an expert from what area? At least to what extent are you familiar with the issues that you are discussing?
        1. Kronos 12 January 2020 00: 52 New
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          No need to transfer blame from the Iranian military to civilian
        2. shahor 12 January 2020 03: 14 New
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          Quote: iouris
          The Iranian dispatcher could not know the plans of the military.

          This is what I’m talking about. The utmost disagreement in the actions of the military and civil aviation authorities. And such consistency is the basis of the flight safety of any country. Such interaction exists everywhere, and in Russia too. As for Iran, I agree with the expert’s assumption about what happened. The bottom line is that the plane took off on 06.07/06.12. in the morning. The transponder disconnected at 6.00. At XNUMX - the beginning of the farjah morning prayer, the most important for Muslims. War - war, and prayer - according to the schedule, in accordance with which the calculation of the anti-aircraft guns operated. The torus was switched from manual, during the prayer period, to automatic mode. In automatic mode, Thor could not identify the passenger plane, because the transponder signal does not recognize. Defined the object as a threat and ... that's it. This is not even gouging, it is a consequence of local customs, which, as it turns out, are not always safe. And - lack of professionalism. It never occurred to any of the anti-aircraft gunners to think about the features of the operation of Thor in automatic mode.
    4. opus 12 January 2020 04: 40 New
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      Quote: iouris
      Iran’s air defense system is outdated and does not have a state recognition system.

      Crap nonsense
      The Tor-M1 air defense system has a special “friend or foe” recognition signaling system
      reacts to "Silicon-2 (2M)" or "Password" (product 62)
      they
      recognition system Mk. XII ....
      Modes "1", "2" and "4" are used only for military purposes, and modes “3 / A”, “C” and “S” - in the interests of civil aviation
      Thor “eats” “3 / A”, “C” and “S” otherwise no Lufganza would fly over us
      judging because the Iranian Torahs are modernized, and significantly

      Everything is normal there, if they haven’t done it again. as was the case with the Syrians
      1. Boeing was spanked by the aerospace forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), these "Torahs" are in the arsenal of the IRGC (the IRGC is not part of the structure of the Armed Forces of Iran, being a completely independent structure,
      and the air defense forces of the IRGC ... mmmmm. a lot of ambition is not enough.
      2.profile profile

      result:

      Quote: iouris
      Air defense systems calculations just shoot at everything that looks like a target. Who really is to blame is the air carrier.

      fool
      Are you out of your mind?
      1. What did the “air carrier” violate? Iranian, international Ukrainian?
      2. So these sheep next time and our board will be knocked down. Do you write like that too?
  5. Garris199 11 January 2020 15: 33 New
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    It looks like a filigree setup. I think the Americans were well aware of the characteristics of the TOR air defense system. It seems that the plane was specially put under attack.
  6. knn54 11 January 2020 15: 36 New
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    If we draw historical parallels, then the fact of shelling from an anti-aircraft gun, from its territory, of an airplane with Molotov in 1942, when he was returning from London, is interesting.
    The area was instantly cordoned off and carefully combed. Alas, to no avail.
    In the 70s, one material fell into the hands of. The provocative shelling of Soviet territory that led to the Winter War was made from a Soviet cannon. The calculation was in Soviet form and communicated in Russian. After several shots, they curled up and drove deep into Finland.
    According to a random witness, Karelian, a citizen of Finland.
    1. Kronos 12 January 2020 00: 53 New
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      The winter war did not begin because of this shelling, it was a maximum excuse
    2. Andy 12 January 2020 01: 14 New
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      Well, a Finnish citizen is a valuable witness. And where were the Finns that they had a Soviet cannon in the rear quietly rides? Bullshit
  7. Avior 11 January 2020 15: 40 New
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    It is impossible to believe in the deliberate attack of the liner by the Iranians, this is someone's stupid and ridiculous accusation.
    Almost half of the Iranians were on board, if it suddenly became clear that it was intentionally, this is a big blow to the IRGC, even if the missile accidentally hit, it’s an unpleasant situation first of all for the IRGC, and it is impossible to believe that the IRGC deliberately shot onboard, where half of the Iranians are simply unrealistic.
    It is not clear, by the way, what the Canadians were on board, it seems that the specialists working in Iran flew out after aggravating relations with the States and it was not clear what else Trump would think of, But the accusation that they were shot at was also ridiculous.
    1. Dude 11 January 2020 15: 53 New
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      It is impossible to believe in the deliberate attack of the liner by the Iranians, this is someone's stupid and ridiculous accusation.
      In fact, the IRGC recognizes the launch as intentional.
      The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) claimed responsibility for the crash of Boeing 737-800 Ukraine’s International Airlines near Tehran, the IRNA news agency reported, citing a statement by the IRGC Air Force Commander General Amir-Ali Hajizade. “We are fully responsible for this, and no matter what decision the authorities make, we will obey him,” he said.

      According to him, Iran’s air defense system took the Ukrainian plane for a cruise missile. Hajizadeh blamed the air defense system for the crash. After the system took the passenger airliner as an enemy object, the operator had to report this to the command. However, due to communication problems this was not done, the operator independently decided. “Either the jamming system worked, or the network was busy, but he could not communicate. He had the opportunity to make a decision within five seconds. Unfortunately, he made the wrong decision and launched the rocket on purpose, ”the general said.

      https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2020/01/11/820364-sistema-pvo-irana
      1. Avior 11 January 2020 17: 27 New
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        There are accusations that attacked, allegedly knowing what exactly is the liner
        Read the third article in the top
        Officially, there were no such accusations, everyone is talking about the unintentional attack of the liner
        1. Dude 11 January 2020 17: 29 New
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          Quote: Avior
          There are accusations that attacked, allegedly knowing what exactly is the liner
          Read the third article in the top
          Officially, there were no such accusations, everyone is talking about the unintentional attack of the liner

          In this sense? Of course, they thought they were attacking a military target. The attack itself was deliberate, and the goal determined was categorically erroneous.
          So, I just misunderstood you, sorry.
  8. Strashila 11 January 2020 15: 44 New
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    “Tehran admits that the Ukrainian side of the Boeing 737-800 was shot down, because the Iranian air defense considered the aircraft a“ hostile target. ”“ But what she considered it to be is an open question.
    Decoding of recorders will probably give an answer.
    The crew talks in the cockpit.
    The operation of all aircraft systems.
    How flew and where.
    After receiving the maximum information, conclude that there is only the fault of the Iranian military in the tragedy or in this there is a share of the aircraft crew.
    Only then make all decisions on compensation.
  9. marshes 11 January 2020 15: 52 New
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    I love detective series, especially those that, during preliminary interrogation under a pile of evidence, the suspect confesses and immediately begins to cooperate with the investigation, though he knows the truth or fiction, the TV series are suspected under the “containers” of evidence and he goes into unconsciousness, like life. Only by court can how to prove it.
    There are a huge number of British detective series, perverted murders and confusing traces, a feeling that already in Britain they have already killed everyone. laughing
  10. Vladimir M 11 January 2020 15: 52 New
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    There is still a very interesting point. If from the first minutes Russia began to be firmly accused of shooting down a plane over the Donbass and "dragged" to court without evidence, then Iran was "gently" led to a guilty plea. Now the United States can raise a howl to ban the supply of defensive weapons (of the same air defense) to Iran.
  11. fruit_cake 11 January 2020 15: 58 New
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    about Russia as expected that they would rush to yell, creature
  12. Shteffan 11 January 2020 16: 10 New
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    The 21st century is in the yard, but they can’t determine the civilian airliner. There are all kinds of fire spoilers, and on the locator screen you can see that the target is in the set, it’s flying slowly, it’s glowing like a Christmas tree. I think this case and the case with Il20 show us like the Arabs and Persians with professionalism in the army, in particular in air defense. THEY BEAT, BEAT, AND WILL BE beat, while yesterday's collective farmers in the army without proper training. This applies to all Arabs.
    1. Servisinzhener 12 January 2020 00: 30 New
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      I completely agree. The Iranians did not learn anything from the experience of the wars of Arab countries with Western ones. Where the first blow is always from the air. And gouging and saving in this matter is very fraught. Well, who who and the military should know who, where and where they fly over the country. Where is the civilian board with the transponder, and where is the mark from an unknown air object. Who to bring down and who not. And then it turns out some kind of "Makhnovism", and not an air defense system. Like in an old joke. We taught you how to shoot from air defense systems, and then turn around as you like.
  13. Old26 11 January 2020 16: 27 New
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    Quote: Garris199
    It looks like a filigree setup. I think the Americans were well aware of the characteristics of the TOR air defense system. It seems that the plane was specially put under attack.

    You can’t overcome yourself and admit that the Iranians shot down? Is it necessary to bring the "American" base to a mess in Iranian air defense? The distance from the border with Iraq is five hundred kilometers. Do not tell me how the Americans brought him under attack? Or at the same time made the Iranian calculation suddenly "crazy"?
    1. Slon379 11 January 2020 16: 45 New
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      And here is the base? Our plane was brought under its own attack. Maybe someone flew there and hid behind a Boeing?
      1. shahor 11 January 2020 18: 34 New
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        Quote: Slon379
        Maybe someone flew there and hid behind a Boeing?

        According to some, it was an Israeli pilot.
  14. WayKheThuo 11 January 2020 16: 32 New
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    There are definitely specialists in the air defense form who served in the air defense. Please clarify:
    1. Does the combat aircraft, cruise missile and passenger liner for 179 people look the same on the radar screen?
    2. According to the official statements of the IRGC, the operator had 5 seconds to make a decision, he could not contact anyone because of “interruptions in communication” and, as a result, fired. How does this compare with actual practice of service? Can an operator decide to launch a rocket? I always believed that the commander of the calculation was endowed with such powers.
    3. Is it impossible to track where the goal came from and its evolution in height? After all, a plane was shot down quite near the airport. It seems that he even entered the echelon, that is, he gained height with all the consequences.

    I apologize in advance for the fraud.
    1. qQQQ 11 January 2020 20: 59 New
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      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      There are definitely specialists in the air defense form who served in the air defense.

      Shilka’s radar, the same as on the Buka’s launch, target mark - a sharp pencil with a length of 3-5 mm, a large plane is a little brighter, but this difference can be determined with extensive experience, the radar is narrowly directed, the deviation in azimuth is literally a fraction of a degree, at a distance 20 km will give a difference of several km, the same in elevation - height, i.e. if two planes fly with an interval of 2-3 km, then two are not visible at the same time, and given the small rotation of the antenna, then again you can catch one, and take another to escort, but this is military air defense, and the old one may be better for new ones.
    2. O. Bender 11 January 2020 21: 59 New
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      The type and nature of the target, the flight paths of the GA planes, the SAM systems must know how to do our father, confuse and knead porridge from the many information received from the RLO means, only a layman, ignoramus, there is complete lack of professionalism in calculating the air defense systems, comrades from the Middle East of Isaudi Arabia actually confirm it’s not the first time I’ve got a handshake in the possession of complex types of weapons. Here’s the Kalash RPG that’s theirs, but I'm sorry for everything that plugs into the outlet ....
  15. cherkas.oe 11 January 2020 16: 44 New
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    From the very first publication on the VO about this news, I did not write anything about this, I only read the comments. And as the song says: “I cried, then laughed, then bristled like a hedgehog,” because I couldn’t unambiguously answer for myself that this was a provocation or a combination of tragic circumstances mixed with unprofessionalism, the imperfection of the air defense system and the stress associated with the known circumstances of the Iranians and the careless maneuvering near the strategic target by the Ukrainian crew, which provoked shooting at the civilian side. The fact that the plane was shot down or suffered from a collision with another aircraft, I had no doubt. What personally are my arguments for provocation. - the first is the crisis between the United States and Iran, the second - the board took off an hour late for unknown reasons, the third - the Ukrainian side, the fourth flight route passed near the guarded air defense facility and the fifth - the side supposedly changed course towards the guarded facility, for return to the airport. Are there any other arguments in defense of the version of the provocation, such as: a drone hiding behind the Ukrainian side? I don’t know, but maybe it was. By the way such a provocation already existed, its algorithm was worked out, they could share it and even participate. American bases in the region from which they could carry out the operation like fleas on a dog. With it in the immediate vicinity. The drone could go to the track at low altitude to quickly gain altitude, merge on the radar screen with the Ukrainian side, provoke him to the lapel towards the guarded object, and after launch leave the line of fire. It sounds fantastic, of course, like the diferamb to the omnipotent "hegemons" and their henchmen, but with the Iranian air defense system, it is still possible to create such a thing as the Syrian one.
    1. Avior 11 January 2020 17: 31 New
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      . board departed late for an hour for unknown reasons

      By quite understandable
      During preflight preparation, they deducted or overloaded and part of the cargo was unloaded to the required weight. I don’t know what specifically, but the delay was because of this
      1. cherkas.oe 11 January 2020 20: 30 New
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        As far as I know, weight loading is automatically tracked at the registration stage. Decisions are made at this stage because there are penalties for delays due to the fault of the airport. At least this is the case here in Europe. And there are also regulations for baggage allowance in excess of the norm for each aircraft. Otherwise, many flights would be delayed for this reason.
  16. evgen1221 11 January 2020 16: 47 New
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    Is it interesting, on command, can a transponder change its signal from civilian to military? (I explain my thoughts - during mobilization-war, civil aviation becomes military-requisition, of course, part remains in the civilian sector, but in order not to replace transponders or defendants with purely military models and not shovel a half-plane picking them out, the regime may change remotely from civilian on the military (in order to facilitate tracking and generally coordination of the newly mobilized and originally military passenger sides, the Air Force and purely passenger sides are on the balance of the Ministry of Defense. And because the American office is Boeing, it’s possible and such a move by their developers, I would definitely put forward such a function would be in avionics in case of mobilization in the army.) So I thought, is such a switch possible? This feature in theory makes it very easy to carry out landmark provocations in peacetime.
    I apologize in advance to the air defense students if I incorrectly stated something technically wrong for my amateurism in the subject.
  17. Wedmak 11 January 2020 17: 29 New
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    Well, as if you were annoyed every day, provoked, poured on you by a flood of lies, hypocrisy and accusations ... They put up inadequate demands, while threatening to launch military strikes for failure to comply with these requirements. It is not difficult to imagine the strain of all the military of Iran at that moment. And here the target goes at a low altitude, next to an important object, at the time of a possible attack from the United States. Well, they pressed the button.
    The victims are sorry, my condolences, but the Iranian side can be understood.
    And the readers of the Daily Mail newspaper are dumb.
    1. Shteffan 12 January 2020 11: 56 New
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      Is it strange that you understand the military of Iran? You can? Mg ... they have an international airport nearby, such a goal flies every hour in their zone of defeat. According to your logic, they had nervousness there all day. So they had to beat all day from heaven then the incomprehensible goals that flew at them. For the day of the Boeing, they should have been so full of 5-10. Why was only one shot down? Is this an explanation for the narrow-minded inhabitants fit.
      1. Wedmak 12 January 2020 19: 46 New
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        You just now pulled an owl on the globe. Yes, the nervousness was all day. But they fell right at that moment. So something was not as usual.
  18. rusich 11 January 2020 18: 05 New
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    But did the United States admit its mistake or apologize for the Vincennes shot down by the US Navy missile cruiser July 3, 1988, the Iran Air passenger Airbus A300B2-203, IR655, 7 minutes after takeoff from Bandar Abbas. All 290 people on board the aircraft died - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children).
    1. atalef 11 January 2020 18: 14 New
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      Quote: rusich
      But did the United States admit its mistake or apologize for the Vincennes shot down by the US Navy missile cruiser July 3, 1988, the Iran Air passenger Airbus A300B2-203, IR655, 7 minutes after takeoff from Bandar Abbas. All 290 people on board the aircraft died - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children).

      Google to the rescue.
      Recognized and Compensation Paid
      1. opus 11 January 2020 20: 12 New
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        Quote: atalef
        Google to the rescue.
        Recognized and Compensation Paid

        clarification. This is not recognition or compensation. This, that would be completely warm feces not smeared.

        Here is more in detail:

        After all
        I will never apologize for the United States of America, I don't care what the facts are


        Reagan called the downing of the Korean plane of the USSR an act of aggression of the vile evil empire against all democratic and civilized humanity
        a crime against humanity that should never be forgotten, "" an act of barbarism and inhuman cruelty

        At the time of the crash, the plane deviated from a course of more than 500 kilometers. According to an investigation by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), the most likely reason for the deviation from the flight route was that the pilots incorrectly set the autopilot and then did not perform proper checks to determine the current coordinates.

        Let me remind you that South Korean flew over the territory of the USSR for a long time

        and here

        cruiser "Vincennes" was in the territorial waters of Iran, of course illegally
        Regretting the loss of life and namein a terrible human tragedy, US government nonetheless formally pleaded not guilty and did not apologize for what happened


        DO YOU FEEL THE DIFFERENCE?
        1. Liam 11 January 2020 20: 21 New
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          Quote: opus
          DO YOU FEEL THE DIFFERENCE?

          And do you feel the difference between an anti-aircraft missile shot at a mark from a radar and an airplane shot down by a fighter located next to the aircraft and clearly identifying the latter as a civilian airliner?
    2. Strelets1 11 January 2020 18: 23 New
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      No, they didn’t apologize, the “exclusive nation” has no habit of apologizing, even when they are pressed against the wall, and even in those cases when they themselves admit their mistake ...- but apologize !!! ... Never.
      Not for Airbus, with some Persians there, not for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with some Japanese there ...
      If you look from the side - ordinary fascism ... and nothing more ...

      PS Here are some facts and quotes:

      "President Ronald Reagan called the actions of the Vincennes crew a defensible defense, emphasizing that the US does not consider itself guilty of what happened. Moreover, he even partially blamed the tragedy on ... the Iranian government.

      In 1989, Iran filed a lawsuit against the United States with the United Nations International Court of Justice demanding compensation for damages and conviction of the United States for violating international air transport conventions. The amicable agreement between the USA and Iran on this subject was signed only in 1996, after which the case in court was dismissed. The United States had to pay compensation in the amount of about 132 million dollars for its robbery. However, this considerable amount did not dispel the bitterness that the words of US President George W. Bush said: "I will never apologize for the United States. I do not care what facts are."

      But even more glaring was something else. This leader, who seemed to be very attractive in Russia, awarded the commander of the cruiser Will Rogers and the officer in charge of air defense of the ship with "For Military Merit" medals. With the wording - "For exceptionally commendable actions in the performance of outstanding service." Later, Rogers was also awarded the Legion of Honor Order for his successful service from 1987 to 1989. "
  19. opus 11 January 2020 18: 54 New
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    Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
    European network commentators are thrilled by this news and draw peculiar parallels with other planes that have crashed.

    The message of the author is not clear?
    1. Why do we need this? Formation of a public opinion?
    just recently (yesterday) an anonymous author
    Quote: anonymous author
    Dutch Foreign Ministry: Most likely, the plane was shot down by Iranian missiles


    Quote: anonymous author
    The phrase "with a high degree of probability" Steph Blok did not specify. He did not specify, by Dutch standards, how much is it likely? For example, 10% will do? Or 30%? Or is it necessarily 80-90%? Then why investigate, if enough interest calculations by Mr. Block.

    2. Why did the author review the current
    Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
    European network commentators
    ?
    why are there no Chinese, Iranians, Japanese, and any Hondurans?
    and "almost Europeans" (inUkrainians) where is the squeeze of their network commentators?
    / topic not disclosed /
    Quote: bar
    that this airliner flew not "at the same time", but with a delay of one hour.

    it doesn’t matter, confuse the Boeing-737 passenger with something American - you have to be a monkey with a grenade / rifle

    I had a better opinion of Iran and gave only 10% on such an outcome. Offensively and disappointed.
    1. Strelets1 11 January 2020 19: 18 New
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      Quote: opus
      it doesn’t matter, confuse the Boeing-737 passenger with something American - you have to be a monkey with a grenade / rifle


      And who needs to be in order to confuse a passenger Airbus with an Iranian fighter, do not tell me, my dear ...?
      1. opus 11 January 2020 19: 45 New
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        Quote: Strelets1
        Airbus with an Iranian fighter, do not tell me, my dear ...?

        "gracious" (aside: pah, what disgusting) you read a shitty
        No. 1 I wrote (and is discussed here) Boeing 737, recently shot down by the Iranians
        No. 2 if you already said a), then do not moo, say B), C) and so on.
        Why are ONLY attracting Americans?
        You are not on Zakharova’s twitter!
        come on drag them here
        Israel, Bulgaria, the USSR, the French with SE-210 (flight AF1611) near Nice: there are many
        Quote: opus

        1. During the “downing”, the US Navy cruiser Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters. in fact, these were open hostilities against Iran.
        under the pretext of protecting Kuwaiti tankers from attacks by belligerent Iran and Iraq

        2.
        The US government said the Iran Air airliner was mistakenly identified as an Iranian Air Force F-14 fighter.
        is an excuse for idiots.
        confuse the A-300 and F-14 may only a full deer. WELL OR CONSCIOUSLY (of which I am sure)

        I answered in sufficient detail "amiable"?
        1. Strelets1 11 January 2020 19: 49 New
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          Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?
          1. Liam 11 January 2020 19: 51 New
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            Quote: Strelets1
            Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?

            Naturally did not see. Otherwise, I would not write such nonsense with such aplomb
          2. opus 11 January 2020 19: 59 New
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            Quote: Strelets1
            Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?

            K3V operator is my VUS.
            Not only "saw", but also repeatedly accompanied and made conditional defeats, and the Tür region here TamA - conducted military training.

            and I had relatives, and studied

            What?
            Why are you interested in?
            1. Liam 11 January 2020 20: 14 New
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              Quote: opus
              K3V operator is my VUS.

              Well, write down / show how the mark differs from the Boeing, located at an altitude of 1500 meters above the ground, that is, just jumped out from the radio horizon from the mark from, for example, Tomogavka. At the same time, write down the capabilities of the TOR MSA, what capabilities it has for instantly almost assessing the situation, how much time the calculation had to recognize and decide how much time passed between the detection and the shot, what kind of relief was between the installation and the liner's track (hills, etc., affecting the radio horizon for a particular installation), the psychological state of the calculation, knowing that they are a priority goal in case of an impact Americans, coordination issues between air defense of the IRGC, air defense of the Iranian army, civilian dispatchers, and share knowledge whether this particular calculation was “assigned” constantly to that area or was rushed there in a few hours to cover the capital in anticipation of Iranian missile attacks on bases in Iraq and the likely response of the Americans
              1. opus 11 January 2020 20: 41 New
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                Quote: Liam
                Well, write / show how the mark differs from the Boeing, located at an altitude of 1500 meters above the ground, that is, just jumped out from the radio horizon from the mark from, for example, Tomogavka

                1. What is there to paint? More specific?
                Soaring passenger Boeing with EPR from 30 to 283 m ^ 2, depending on the azimuthal angle?
                2. TORY- not my VUS, do not scuffle. If so, you need to look (if you understand something)

                and further


                and further


                feel better?
                3.From where the "wood" to the account "andszand the radio horizon "?
                Where exactly were the SN / SOC / BM relative to the airport runway (civilian)?
                Quote: Liam
                MSA TORA

                Shaw for the "MSA"?
                Quote: Liam
                At the same time, write

                some untranslatable local dialect.
                Why should I paint this? Yes to you? why on earth?
                the crap you carry here

                Quote: Liam
                how much time the calculation had to recognize and make a decision, how much time passed between the detection and the shot, what relief was between the installation and the liner's track (hills, etc., affecting the radio horizon for a particular installation), the psychological state of the calculation

                blah blah blah
                means that the combat calculation of an all-weather tactical air defense system designed to solve the tasks of air defense and missile defense at the level of the division level ... in general, it is better not to include either SOC, or CH, or the transponder of the state recognition system.
                Tk for your excuses like that: first of all, it will flood its own aircraft.
                After all, such a nervousness will be on the battlefield, the Iranian situation will seem like a lethargic dream, almost a paradise.
                1. Liam 11 January 2020 21: 04 New
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                  That is, you are not aware of absolutely all of these defining details, but with aplomb call them deer and monkeys. The quintessence of a couch expert.
                  That the Iranians are still advanced warriors, the news is only for local turbo-triotriots. But from this to the announcement of their monkeys, the distance is great. Such incidents happened not only with them, but also with much more developed militarily countries. From the USA, USSR / Russia, Israel to Italy / France and Ukraine.
                  By the way, a thinking person would ask himself a question: at what level is electronics, radar, etc. on Russian air defense systems, since it is so easy to make a mistake and confuse a civilian airliner for military purposes
                  1. thanks 11 January 2020 22: 36 New
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                    Quote: Liam
                    By the way, a thinking person would ask himself a question, and at what level is electronics, radar, etc. on Russian air defense systems, since it is so easy to make a mistake and confuse a civilian airliner for military purposes

                    Maybe you, tell me - at what level is the Russian air defense technology? Or, as always, will you count micrometers by microwave?
                    1. Liam 11 January 2020 22: 40 New
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                      Quote: Mersi
                      Prompt

                      By the way. And who taught Iranian air defense specialists how to work with ASEZs?
                      1. thanks 11 January 2020 22: 45 New
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                        Quote: Liam
                        By the way. And who taught Iranian air defense specialists how to work with ASEZs?

                        They answer the question with the question ... Do not get off the question - it's ugly! And who taught Iranian air defense - Schnick? Only Iranian air defense know it.
                      2. Liam 11 January 2020 23: 14 New
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                        Quote: Mersi
                        And who taught Iranian air defense - Schnick? Only Iranian anti-aircraft defense knows.

                        Quote: Mersi
                        No need to get off the question - it's ugly!

                        This is not Newton’s bin. I can tell you this secret, so carefully guarded by Iranian air defense specialists. They were taught to work with TORs by those who sold them to them, that is, Russian instructors. This is always included in the conditions for selling such complex equipment
                2. opus 11 January 2020 22: 55 New
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                  Quote: Liam
                  That is, you do not know absolutely all of these details that are decisive, but with aplomb call them deer and

                  man ...
                  and then what are you in yourself?
                  1. You asked, I answered, showed
                  2. You continue to throw the products of processing your intestines on the fan, using absolutely stupid terms as arguments / arguments
                  Quote: Liam
                  . At the same time, describe the possibilities OMS Torah

                  wassat

                  Quote: Liam
                  By the way, a thinking person would ask himself a question: at what level is electronics, radar, etc. on Russian air defense systems, since it is so easy to make a mistake and confuse a civilian airliner for military purposes

                  here is a conversation, as with that monkey.
                  Still "tube", could "distinguish" (following your own logic of thought) airliners from other La.
                  and this is no wonder
                  EPR Boeing, I repeat
                  Quote: opus
                  Taking off passenger Boeing with EPR from 30 to 283 m ^ 2, depending on the azimuthal angle?

                  and F-14 (which are already gone) under 7 m ^ 2
                  Everything else, from NATO, from 2 m ^ 2 and less

                  confuse, taking into account:
                  1. course
                  2. speed (doppler)
                  3. Take-off (not attack)
                  4,5,6
                  - one must be a complete deer, or frightened by the "short form of the Irish name" William ""
                  Alles Klaer?
                  1. Liam 11 January 2020 23: 03 New
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                    Quote: opus
                    men

                    Do Not Behave Like a Fucker
                    Quote: opus
                    EPR Boeing

                    You express your thoughts very chaotically and chaotically. And clearly, clearly and as briefly as possible, state the first sign of an intelligent person.
                    And if it is simpler, so that you would understand for the TOP operator the only way to determine the ESR of a target is that a target with a larger EPR tag is brighter than a target with a smaller ESR.
                    The trouble is that for this you need to have these TWO goals at the same time to compare.
                    If the label is one and especially in conditions of stress and time pressure, the operator has enormous difficulties with this. Great experience and knowledge are needed.
                    And here questions arise for those who taught Iranian air defense, that is, those who sold and trained them complexes
                    1. opus 11 January 2020 23: 51 New
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                      Quote: Liam
                      You express your thoughts very chaotically and chaotically

                      Well, are you really "sparkling" ... poison?
                      Have you read yourself?

                      = malice and idiocy
                      Quote: Liam
                      OR, the only way to determine the EPR of a target is that a target with a larger EPR tag is brighter than a target with a lower EPR.

                      1. Not only brighter, but also more
                      2. Doppler (speed), azimuth, altitude change (in +), and not minus, heading angle, civil notifications about take-off, negotiations, responder, transponder, negotiations with the tower, etc., etc.

                      Quote: Liam
                      And here questions arise for those who taught Iranian air defense, that is, those who sold and trained them complexes

                      well yes.
                      Approached the main thing?
                      Padded jackets?
                      So you are kaakla ... damn you would say so, but I have a discussion with the mutant, I spend time
                      idle time
                    2. Liam 11 January 2020 23: 59 New
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                      Kill the PTUshnik in yourself.
        2. Strelets1 11 January 2020 20: 26 New
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          Liam (Liam) took off the tongue ...
          Quote: opus

          What?
          Why are you interested in?

          I just want to define - here is "a full deer", "a monkey with a grenade" or just "opus" ...
          1. opus 11 January 2020 22: 41 New
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            Quote: Strelets1
            I just want to define - here is "a full deer", "a monkey with a grenade" or just "opus" ...

            Well. understandable - Butthurt, typical.
            No arguments, go to the individual
            You "Constantine" should unite with Liam, in eustasis or not, decide for yourself.
            1.Kostik asked a question
            Quote: Strelets1
            Have you ever seen a target mark on the PPI screen?

            2. Kostya received an answer to a question

            3.Kostik could not realize / comprehend the answer to his own question
            4.Kostik in anger turned to the person, without bringing a single argument in defense of his position / in refutation of mine.
            1 + 2 + 3 + insignificant person with limited mental abilities, spiteful.
            Adieu, come on
  • Old26 11 January 2020 20: 03 New
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    Quote: Slon379
    And here is the base? Our plane was brought under its own attack. Maybe someone flew there and hid behind a Boeing?

    Who! In the area of ​​the international airport, five hundred kilometers from the Iranian border.

    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    There are definitely specialists in the air defense form who served in the air defense. Please clarify:
    1. Does the combat aircraft, cruise missile and passenger liner for 179 people look the same on the radar screen?

    I’m not a flyman, but I’ll definitely say NO. The reflective surface of each of these aircraft is different. They just CANNOT look the same

    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    2. According to the official statements of the IRGC, the operator had 5 seconds to make a decision, he could not contact anyone because of “interruptions in communication” and, as a result, fired. How does this compare with actual practice of service? Can an operator decide to launch a rocket? I always believed that the commander of the calculation was endowed with such powers.

    They wrote that 10 seconds. Yes, there was a secret military object of the IRGC nearby, but the mark of the target (Boeing) on ​​the radar screens was only a couple of minutes. Walked from the airport, with climb and transponder turned on. Even if the pilot did the maneuver, this was no reason to bring down the plane. The human factor was superimposed, and it seems to me a low level of preparation of air defense calculations. In general, locating a military facility 2 dozen kilometers from the airport is not the best option. Anything can happen to a passenger plane, as a result of which it can deviate from the course

    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    3. Is it impossible to track where the goal came from and its evolution in height? After all, a plane was shot down quite near the airport. It seems that he even entered the echelon, that is, he gained height with all the consequences.

    It was their task to track. But why not tracked down - a question for the Iranians

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    What personally are my arguments for provocation. - the first is the crisis between the United States and Iran, the second - the board took off an hour late for unknown reasons, the third - the Ukrainian side, the fourth flight route passed near the guarded air defense facility and the fifth - the side supposedly changed course towards the guarded facility, for return to the airport.

    1. The crisis in relations between Iran and the United States has been going on for more than a year. The "hot" stage - yes, for the first time. But if you have already gone on to respond to the American provocation (killing a general) with a missile strike, then why, in order to secure others who did not take part in this (international flights to the international airport), did not close the airspace for some period. At least for a day.
    2. The reasons for the flight delay are known. It turns out that the civilian dispatcher is one thing, and the military controlling this zone is another. No coordination?
    3. Yes, at least Honduran. In the same way, the Russian side could have appeared on the spot of the Ukrainian ...
    4. Who is to blame for the fact that the flight route passes near a secret facility? Air carriers, or are the Iranians themselves? Moreover, the airport zone is always replete with possible options for route deviations and the like.
    5. Deviations from the course. Such cases can be several times a day. As an example, a board burned down at Sheremetyevo. Also deviated from the planned course.

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    Are there any other arguments in defense of the version of the provocation like that: a drone hiding behind the Ukrainian side? I don’t know, but maybe it was.

    The Iranians shot down some time ago an American drone almost at the edge of its own territorial waters or on the border itself. And then they gave you the opportunity to circle five hundred kilometers from the border?

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    American bases in the region from which they could carry out the operation like fleas on a dog.

    In this region? In the Near and Middle East? A lot of. I do not argue. But here they are more than 500 km from the point of death of the Ukrainian plane. In the immediate vicinity there is nothing. Only Iranian territory. How do you imagine such a provocation. then we must admit that Iran’s air defense is full of holes, the calculations of the complexes by their professional qualities are close to zero, and all the talk that "if the Americans invade, they will arrange a blood bath" is nothing more than an ordinary chatter ...

    Quote: cherkas.oe
    The drone could go to the track at low altitude to quickly gain altitude, merge on the radar screen with the Ukrainian side, provoke him to the lapel towards the guarded object, and after launch leave the line of fire. It sounds fantastic of course

    Not just fantastic sounds. sounds like an attempt to justify Iran’s air defense actions with anything, mythical drones, just not to say directly that Iran’s air defense is to blame. That his level seems to be below the baseboard. Otherwise, how can it be assumed that an enemy drone more than 500 kilometers flew over Iran and was not detected by the radar. Then he climbed up and provoked the Ukrainian plane to turn away. How did this event happen? At 6.10 a.m. Darkness. Visually, this drone is not visible. And the radars that could notify the crew of a dangerous approach to UAVs are unlikely to be installed on a Boeing
  • LeonidL 12 January 2020 02: 12 New
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    Well, it’s worth remembering that the American cruiser also once took Airbus for a cruise missile and shot down ... "Iran Air Airlines Airbus A300B2-203 airliner made a commercial passenger flight IR655 on the route Tehran-Bandar-Abbas-Dubai, but 7 minutes after the flight from Bandar Abbas, flying over the Persian Gulf, was shot down by a ground-to-air missile launched from the US Navy's Vincennes missile cruiser. All 290 people on board died, while the Ukrainians themselves distinguished themselves by shooting down during the S-200 exercises over the Black Sea, the Russian TU with the Israelis, the Siberian Airlines Tu-154M airliner, performed the scheduled flight SBI1812 on the Tel Aviv-Novosibirsk route, but 1 hour and 45 minutes after take-off crashed into the Black Sea. 78 people were on board ( 66 passengers and 12 crew members were killed, according to the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC), the plane was unintentionally shot down by the 5V28 anti-aircraft missile of the S-200V complex launched by the 96th anti-aircraft missile air defense brigade of Ukraine ". Well, about the Malaysian Boeing, that the brave Ukrainian rocket launchers were knocked down silently, silently ...
  • riwas 12 January 2020 06: 46 New
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    US media wrote that the plane could be shot down with missiles fired from the Tor air defense system

    Judging by the hit in the engine, it was a missile with infrared seeker.
  • Boris55 12 January 2020 08: 15 New
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    The main thing is that, unlike their "petriots", our technique works, but it’s a pity for people, although, what the hell did they do there, did Uncle Sam lick his ass?
  • Ilya_Nsk 12 January 2020 09: 26 New
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    Extremely incomprehensible story! Comrades who what exactly knows about this "TOP"? Vicki writes: "In this case, the Tor system itself controls the designated airspace and independently captures all air targets that are not recognized by the friend or foe system." Foreign aircraft are not equipped with this system, why they all not shot down either before or after? Does the TOR target type recognize?
  • LLeonid 12 January 2020 09: 50 New
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    A case comes to mind with Ukraine shot down by the Russian Siberian Airlines plane flying from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk over the Peaceful Black Sea. And when, unfortunately, the valiant Ukrainian warriors, in the ABSOLUTELY PEACE TIME, with the MASS OF FREE TIME, began to “UNKNOWN WHY” the “teachings” ... (I’d like to ask: WHERE are YOU going to “defend” FROM ?! you had “sculpted friends.” But Russia had economic and political “agreements” with Ukraine that it respected. It had a bunch of close relatives “in” Ukraine with its citizens, it strictly intended to live further with Ukraine in exceptionally kind, peaceful interaction! )
    It is worth recalling the reaction of Ukraine to the case, which (in the person of the then president of Ukraine Kuchma) stated LITERALLY the following: “Are we the first or the last? Errors happen everywhere ... And not only this, but also on a larger scale ... DO NOT NEED MAKE THIS TRAGEDY FROM THIS ... "(!!!)
    As far as is known, None of the Ukrainian military was “punished” then. Well, it’s understandable ... This is a “mistake”. The "mistake" is even so-so ... not very "large scale" ... AND THIS, which happened, is even NOT a "tragedy" (!!!)
    Therefore, Zelensky, with his demand to “find the guilty and punish”, can answer: “Whose cow would moo, but yours would be silent!”
    We will take into account: an Iranian specialist, NOT in peacetime, but in conditions of a MILITARY CONFLICT, and having “to make a decision” only 5 (five!) Seconds (!) Without communication due to some kind of malfunction (independent of it) made an erroneous decision. Accepting a civilian aircraft, ABSTAINED ON HOUR with scheduled departure, for the American cruise missile. Going in the direction of the military facility protected by him.
    And he, I must admit, WAS THE BASIS to make a mistake ... He - had no connection, was in temporary time trouble, but he clearly EXACTLY KNEW (since he was near his airport and could not have a flight schedule of airliners), THIS TIME nor any "civilian aircraft" in the sky BE NOT TO BE!
    And if Iran is now “punishing” its soldier, then the question will be for Iran: “And if it were really an American cruise missile, and he wouldn’t have shot down without making a sole decision (for lack of communication), what would you THEN they told him ?! "
    In my opinion, Iran has FULL RIGHTS here to do as Ukrainian President Kuchma said: "Mistakes happen everywhere" ...
    At the same time, it should be noted: Iran, unlike Ukraine, RECOGNIZED a civilian plane accidentally shot down by it as a TRAGEDY.
    That is, Iran has a CONSCIENCE.
    But Ukraine is clearly "bending the line" in unison with the United States: let’s say, taking advantage of the tragic incident and in view of the US-Iran conflict, WE FAR the Iranian military with the hands of the Iranian leadership! Let, next time, their military ALWAYS BE AFRAID of launching missiles defending their homeland!
  • Enky 12 January 2020 13: 12 New
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    Quote: bayard
    And I also expected a much better organization from them.

    The organization in Iran is completely in order, you just concentrated your attention on the rocket and the plane, but in order to see the forest you need to move away from the trees ... The elements of the special operation to change the existing system in Iran are very clearly traced: the liquidation of the key leader of the IRGC and the supporter of Iran’s independence is strange US awareness of the time and place of striking with the withdrawal of personnel from objects - the inexplicable lack of air defense systems around the attacked objects - a strange choice of secondary targets from Iran - an unusually high accuracy of defeat (didn’t anyone highlight) - a strange passivity of the USA after such a slap in the face and the absence of not only retaliation strikes, but also an extremely soft political assessment of the situation by the State Department - a strange order for non-Iranian forces to cancel any special operations against the USA - a very "successful" downing of a civilian plane so skillfully shifting attention from the foreign policy issue of Iran + USA = WAR to domestic political revenge FOR K. SULEYMANI = DESTROY THEIR OWN CITIZENS — unusual Canadian intelligence awareness and a “completely random” video of a missile attack on a Boeing — unusual Israeli silence — incidentals in Abkhazia very incidentally distracting the Kremlin and Merkel’s urgent visit to Pupin — organizing rallies in Tehran by British diplomats to distribute cookies - “popular” demands for the resignation of the leadership of the IRGC and the Iranian government ... you can continue to collect completely “random” coincidences, but it’s not more obvious to come up with.
  • Enky 12 January 2020 16: 12 New
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    Quote: Garris199
    It looks like a filigree setup. I think the Americans were well aware of the characteristics of the TOR air defense system. It seems that the plane was specially put under attack.

    A good idea, just how many minuses you have been told, indicates that you got to the point, the trolls got excited for nothing, you need to work out the bread: distract the military-patriotic-minded reader, and discredit those who see the point ...
    1. My_log_in 13 January 2020 15: 14 New
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      one more option can be assumed: they didn’t manage to catch someone or something on the ground - they had to “catch up” in the air. If it was a question of personal sanction / "otvetka" for Sulejmani - the person involved would be taken out on the ground in any other place, the plane would not be brought down, it wasn’t accepted from them. I think so.
  • Klingon 12 January 2020 16: 50 New
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    explain to me the stupid who is fumbling: and each civilian side, after all, is the transponder turned on, can it fix the air defense somehow? Is there no civil / military object recognition system? in general, how is the identification of goals? I mean serious air defense like Tor, Buk, S-300/400, not portable, it’s clear what’s in the eye. thanks in advance
  • kupitman 12 January 2020 22: 35 New
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    Russia is to blame, yeah
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  • Jb_swamp 13 January 2020 00: 46 New
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    maybe everything is simple: the pendos flunked the general IRGC, the IRGC flunked someone on the plane. the list of passengers needs to be analyzed. collateral damage didn't really upset anyone.
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  • Jb_swamp 13 January 2020 00: 50 New
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    the word pendoza, written in Russian, is automatically replaced by the letter s - are topwar admins so kind to these penguins?
  • Andrew77 13 January 2020 12: 33 New
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    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    1. Does the combat aircraft, cruise missile and passenger liner for 179 people look the same on the radar screen?


    If the BOR was shot by the TOP ...
    SOC (Target Detection Station) on ТОР М1 gave to the monitor a tied target path (i.e. a line with target serif points) followed by several digits - the number of the target form, degree of danger (determined from the calculated data) and something else ... since the 90th year forgot. Radar mark - such as a spot brighter / darker or larger / smaller, in my opinion, is not reflected on the screen, because The signal comes digitized with a digital computer. I don’t remember what on the screen of the CH (Guidance Station) ... They shot at Boeing after 6 in the morning - i.e. they could look into the television sight, there it is possible to distinguish the KR from the carcass of a passenger liner, but probably they didn’t look. I don’t know how a friend or foe works on export TOPs; most likely, the same system also works with a civil liner transponder.