Why is it so difficult to solve the problem of production of composite materials in the Russian Federation: facts and comments


With an enviable frequency in the press, the topic of the lag of Russian industry in the field of composite materials production pops up. Moreover, the appearance of these materials is often associated with the fulfillment of orders of our defense industry.


“We cannot produce any product under the conditions of sanctions due to the lack of our own composites” ... Further, depending on the direction of the publication, either praises to the West or drooling towards our scientists and production workers.

How are things today in this area? Is Russia really so far behind other countries in creating these materials necessary for modern production?

Almost a year ago, on February 22, 2019, in Novocherkassk, at the site of the M.I. South Russian State Polytechnic University Platov held a visiting meeting of the State Duma Commission on the legal support of the development of defense industry organizations of Russia. This event was called “Import Substitution of Composite Materials and Technological Equipment for Diversification of the Military-Industrial Complex”.

It was there that the numbers were voiced, which plunged many into shock. It turned out that we are not just lagging behind in the field of composites, we are lagging catastrophically. And it was precisely this lag that gave rise to the West quite painfully hit by sanctions on many Russian projects in the field of aircraft construction, shipbuilding, medicine and others.

Here is how the then Chairman of the State Duma Commission, President of the League for the Promotion of Defense Enterprises Vladimir Gutenev commented on the situation:

Modernization of industry, updating of products of industrial enterprises is impossible without the use of new materials, technologies for their production and use, training of qualified personnel. The military-industrial complex is a driver for the modernization and development of the industry, including the sector of new materials. Using its potential, it is necessary to change the current situation when the USA and Europe use, respectively, 20 and 10 times more composites than our country.

It is not necessary to have seven spans in the forehead to see the complexity of the task. The task is not to blindly copy some kind of composites, but to create, in that way, an entire industry.

This is a triune task. Expanding the network of scientific institutes, training personnel for these institutes and for production, and creating new technological industries. Many? Yes many. But this is only the beginning. It is also necessary to interest potential buyers from the civilian sector with these products. Otherwise, the industry will not develop.

Today in the production of composite materials there is a clear skew. We do not have components for the production of some aircraft parts, but there is hypersonic weaponFor example - "Dagger". It is clear that the creation of these missiles is impossible without the use of composites.

But are there any real successes in solving this problem? Naturally, we will not get a clear answer to this question. The topic is closed to the press. However, according to some indirect signs, some conclusions can already be made today.

Many people remember the good “kick” in our promising development - the medium-range passenger aircraft MS-21 - by the Americans. When the imposed sanctions practically stopped the production of an already developed aircraft. It is because of the composite materials used in the manufacture of the elongated heavy-duty composite wing (the so-called black wing) and part of the keel.

We then could not only create such a composite ourselves, but also purchase something similar abroad. Similar products were produced only in the USA (Hexcel) and in Japan (Toray Industries). Composites proposed by the Chinese did not meet the requirements.

And what did we see on November 30, 2019? Irkut assembled the fourth MS-21 for flight tests. Moreover, it is officially stated that the aircraft will receive a certificate in Russia before the end of 2020, and a European certificate in 2021!

Already today, 175 MS-21 aircraft (the so-called portfolio of firm orders) worth $ 9 billion were ordered at Irkut. Next year 7 planes will be assembled, in 2022-12, in 2023 - 25 aircraft. And in 2025 - already 75 aircraft! Agree, the confidence of aircraft manufacturers must be based on something.

The restoration of the positions lost during the years of perestroika is a long process. It’s easy to lose, but it’s hard to catch up. But in this matter, the main thing is determination and desire. And we have a desire ...
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  1. Nikitich 11 January 2020 08: 20 New
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    Why is it so difficult to solve the problem of production of composite materials in the Russian Federation

    Because the USSR did not have time to seriously advance in the field of composites ....
    1. kjhg 11 January 2020 08: 38 New
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      Quote: Nikitich
      Because the USSR did not have time to seriously advance in the field of composites ....

      In the 80s, no one developed the field of composites. A breakthrough happened in the 90s.
      The title of the article does not match the content. Subject Why is it so difficult to solve the problem of production of composite materials in the Russian Federation: facts and comments - not disclosed.
      1. WIKI 11 January 2020 09: 06 New
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        Topic Why is it so difficult to solve the problem of production of composite materials in the Russian Federation: facts and comments are not disclosed.
        "The main problem of the MC-21 was the issue of goal-setting. Is it a strategic project aimed at improving the competitiveness of the domestic aviation industry, developing and mastering new technologies? Or is it a project for making dollars on the foreign market. The first option was probably foreseen initially, but with an" accounting approach " As a result, we have what we have. The uniqueness of the MC-21 wing is not at all that it is composite, there are enough composite wings in Russia and even more so in the world. The uniqueness lies in the fact that for the first time the wing is not made by the autoclave method , and by vacuum infusion. ”In this regard, the statements of our senior officials“ MS-21 will be with a composite wing in any case, that is, it is possible with a composite wing made using autoclave technology, are causing concern. If this happens, then 10 (or even more) years of work and considerable financial resources will be lost. " https://aftershock.news/?q=node/765830&full
        1. Stas157 11 January 2020 09: 43 New
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          Quote: WIKI
          The uniqueness of the MS-21 wing is not at all that it is composite

          In that it has a supercritical profile of large elongation (narrow and long). And this could only be realized in a composite wing. The manufacturing method is not important here. The developers apparently felt that it was cheaper and easier to make it with a new method than with an ordinary autoclave, which Russia did not have (for large wings).
          Quote: WIKI
          composite wings enough in Russia and especially in the world

          MS-21 is the first Russian GA aircraft with composite wings.
          1. 113262a 11 January 2020 11: 34 New
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            Still how important! Method! During vacuum infusion, not only is air removed from the surf layers, it also leaves the resin. With an autoclave, air bubbles simply compress, and when relieved, they tear the composite into layers. Creating stress concentrators. The jamb is precisely in the technology for the production of roll craps impregnated with a binder of correctly laid and oriented layers of fiber-coal-, glass- or the same CBM-Russian Kevlar! Yes, and the resins themselves — instead of thousands of their species among the bourgeois — the nomenclature does not reach us for a dozen. Weak chemical industry patamushta!
            1. ProkletyiPirat 12 January 2020 01: 00 New
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              Quote: 113262
              With an autoclave, air bubbles simply compress, and when relieved, they tear the composite into layers.

              He smiled, apparently someone tried to make a composite without reading the docks ... For the future, in the autoclave, air is also pumped out from the inside of the workpiece, and the autoclave itself and its pressure are used to make the reinforcing material more closely adjoin each other. In general, the autoclave provides precisely the interlayer strength due to extrusion of the binder from the inside of the PCM, and the autoclave is also used to more evenly distribute the “protective crust” from the binder in order to remove “wrinkles and blemishes” arising from the poor viscosity of the binder.
    2. Svetlana 11 January 2020 08: 43 New
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      30 years ago, composites were not so in demand and naturally they were not developed during the USSR.
      1. astepanov 11 January 2020 18: 18 New
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        Quote: Svetlana
        30 years ago, composites were not so in demand and naturally they were not developed during the USSR.

        Quote: Bender Ostap
        More precisely, they did not see the prospects! While there was an introduction all over the world, they moved in the old fashioned way in the USSR!

        Do not know - do not lie. It was then that the plant in Mytishchi and the plant in Svetlogorsk, producing high-modulus carbon fibers and fabrics from them, were created at the full work of VNIIE, which was also involved in the development of composites. And solid propellant rocket engines, in your opinion, from what they wound?
        And then “perestroika and acceleration” came, then “democracy”, the production was stolen, and at best reoriented to the production of fishing rods, the formation was killed by forces of Fursenks, Grefs and other riffraffers - and now there are no specialists, no equipment, no horseradish. In general, there is no need to look for specific problems: they are the same as in Rogozmos, in healthcare, in electronics, in science .... the list is too long. And now you won’t do anything, a lag of 30 years at our pace of development (zero point-a-tenths a year) cannot be eliminated. Moreover, this is not a sectoral lag, but a systemic one.
    3. Rostislav Bely 11 January 2020 08: 45 New
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      Here there is more production - material consumption for knocking out funds and profits in the USSR, after the Stalinist economy when prices all fell due to cost reduction came stateization and stupidity in production (this did not concern the defense - there they wanted to sneeze for the thesis, for example about cybernetics)
      1. ProkletyiPirat 11 January 2020 09: 37 New
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        There is no need to appeal to theses about cybernetics in the USSR, under Stalin and Beria, IT technologies developed almost faster than in the West, after their departure everything fell apart in the field of IT innovations, and later in the field of production. Yes, and "stupidity" was just the same in the defense industry and it was and is being saved, they spent a lot of resources on all kinds of garbage, but they didn’t give money for what gave the result, the eternal theme is "we won’t think for ourselves, we won’t give you thought and try, but how only after the hillock they will create something, we will ask you in all severity, "and by the 90s insanity had reached such proportions that even began to boast of such! wassat
        1. Rostislav Bely 11 January 2020 10: 30 New
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          I’m talking about the same type in the USSR, the largest microcalculators in the world, you can also chop nuts with them ... and you’re wrong about the defense industry, as other principles
          from a cousin (Baumanka), a classmate was immediately taken to the mailbox after graduation (everything went through a projectile for a hail twice as expensive, a defeat six times higher - whether it would be due to cost (explosion above the surface))
          1. ProkletyiPirat 12 January 2020 00: 46 New
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            Take a closer look at the stories of the creation of military models, you will see that the vast majority of them were created after intelligence was obtained from abroad, while you can look for information on how these innovations offered before in various government agencies were not launched into development. Here you can recall the personal computers and GPS and the Internet that were offered decades before they appeared in the USA, but to hell with it with IT, it’s corny to take planes there and EDSU, and catapult seats and static instability, and verticals, okay to hell with it with aviation, take a look at tanks take an interest in the development of dynamic defenses. In general, the list goes on and on ...
            1. Rostislav Bely 12 January 2020 01: 52 New
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              Sergey, I am currently engaged in a specialty in price and technological audit in civilian life ...
              an example from the USSR that I set out - for example, on railway, instrument housings are unnecessarily metal-intensive, the contractor will reduce metal consumption, and so on by industry (and I’ll be silent about corruption - when diplomats brought money to Moscow - to reduce the plan and so on - people on serious prizes were received by the factories as well as plant collectives) ... Under Stalin, there was a different approach - cost reduction (there were no legal entities, trust economy was), serious prizes were paid for this, so we canceled the card system before the British and tp
              Then remember that Khrushchev created - you can’t call a diversion, but he’s just a halfwit — not a techie or a theoretician of Marxism-Leninism — an ordinary yap-cooked slogan without a basis ...
              To date, in the specialty of the auditor (we are struggling with postscripts) - a small example from commercial construction (construction quotes are not based on the base-index method - commercial) - the designer conspires with the builders (the cost examination does not pass, because the money is not budget) - in the project, concrete floors are reinforced with reinforcement with a diameter of 10 with a step of 100 mm in “two layers” - at the implementation stage, a change is made to the project without changing the price - the top layer is also 10 with a step of 200 mm, and the bottom diameter is 12 with the same step ... and now count how much the metal consumption of can in tons has fallen if there are several thousand square meters. meters (workshop), how many million were saved putting in your pocket - for this there is an audit that you can return money through the court ...
              Composites reduce the cost, including the life cycle (operation) - now you understand what I mean - in civilian properties (capabilities) are secondary
    4. Bar2 11 January 2020 09: 16 New
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      the article is good, in the context, understand how you want, whether there are sanctions on composites, or not, whether you yourself created a production, or you didn’t create it. An airplane has wings, but either from composites. or not from composites. Nothing we do not know and will not know.
      1. Aviator_ 11 January 2020 11: 46 New
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        The aircraft is competitive only with a composite wing, but what they are going to present for certification in 2020 is unclear. Only a few kits from Japan were purchased, but where will the rest come from? If you suddenly mastered yourself (or with the Chinese) - then this is "overwhelming", if none of this is there, then "zrada". Nothing is clear from the article.
        1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 12: 58 New
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          Last year, they launched their production of composites for MC 21. You can rejoice.
          1. Stas157 11 January 2020 15: 02 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            Last year, they launched their production of composites for MC 21. You can rejoice.

            This is the "news" of yesterday. All have heard it. When will the wings make of this? This will be real news! You can really be happy for the plane.
            1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 18: 03 New
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              This year the sixth MC 21 will be made, and already on the seventh there will be a tail unit of their composites.
    5. O. Bender 11 January 2020 23: 10 New
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      In the city where I stayed to live, after being transferred to the reserve, there was a large chemical plant for the production of carbon fibers and products from them, the whole country built the plant, now they produce a small private tracer of polypropylene fiber from which they knit washcloths, they still pick out metal, from a huge there are ruins of the plant. Thousands of workers under the butt of a knee. Why so? Because they decided that it was easier to buy than to do. And here is the result.
      1. gridd 15 January 2020 07: 06 New
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        Because fibers are different. This is for you no difference between propylene thread and carbon fiber, required for the production of aviation composites. The equipment is so different that it’s easier to build a new plant than to repurpose and repair the old one.
        1. O. Bender 15 January 2020 08: 17 New
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          The plant produced carbon fiber materials, their fabrics, polypropylene yarn, as well as mercury, are produced not on the remaining technological equipment but use the surviving buildings and structures. The area of ​​the chemical plant is very large, around the perimeter of 4 by 4 km of various types of technological lines more than three types of products as well. The consumer goods workshop produced fishing rods under the Volzhanka brand. So for general information. The factory destroyed is just a fact.
          1. gridd 15 January 2020 09: 39 New
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            So I say fiber to fiber. Polypropylene thread is still needed on the farm. No one needed carbon fiber from your plant. Neither in civilian nor in military option. This must be taken as a fact. At the end of the USSR, directors of many enterprises sat in the hope that they were about to come to them and asked to work. They are unique plants! They stood in line all their lives. And no one came. The military industry did not need these enterprises, due to a reduction in defense orders. The products for the citizen turned out to be cheap, because they were made from illiquid assets of military workshops, the input price of which was zero, and if you buy raw materials only for the production of the citizen, the products turned out to be gold.

            It was not even necessary to physically destroy the plant, it was enough to leave everything as it is.
    6. iouris 11 January 2020 23: 11 New
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      Quote: Nikitich
      Because the USSR did not have time in earnest

      Comfort yourself, Catherine the Great, they say, managed to make four mistakes when writing the word "more."
    7. Lekz 15 January 2020 00: 18 New
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      Do not be like about the USSR. Back in 83, he was collecting rockets in Pavlograd. So they, rockets, were plastic. And glass, and carbon, and 3D-carbon. Only flanges were metal (titanium) ... It seems that technologies after privatization and the transition to capitalism have simply been lost, and the equipment has been turned into scrap metal.
  2. mark1 11 January 2020 08: 21 New
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    We have a couple of carbon fiber enterprises (one in Yelabug with the possibility of producing up to 10 thousand tons in the future), but with prepregs, they say, the problem (maybe in the past tense?).
    1. kjhg 11 January 2020 08: 41 New
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      Quote: mark1
      We have a couple of carbon fiber plants

      Composites are not only the production of carbon fiber of appropriate thickness and strength. One of the key points is the production of adhesive and not only.
      1. mark1 11 January 2020 09: 07 New
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        Quote: kjhg
        this is the production of adhesive and not only.

        Have you read to the end? The word is prepregs, do you know it? So I wrote about them.
      2. Errr 11 January 2020 09: 18 New
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        Quote: kjhg
        One of the key points is the production of adhesive
        There is no "adhesive" in the composite [it will be right - glueяsubstance], there is a matrix.
        1. 113262a 11 January 2020 12: 08 New
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          Matrix is ​​a more general name! Here we are talking about plastics based on synthetic resins, so it’s enough to call them BINDER! And in metal composites and in REINFORCED CONCRETE - MATRIX!
          1. Errr 11 January 2020 13: 26 New
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            Actually, I'm here about carbon fiber reinforced plastics. smile
            Traditionally quite a bit of wiki:
            CFRP (or carbon, carbonoplastics, from the English carbon - carbon) - polymer composite materials from interwoven carbon fiber threads, located in the MATRIX from polymer (e.g., epoxy) resins.
            A source:
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Углепластики
            1. 113262a 11 January 2020 15: 49 New
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              Aircraft wing, basically made of the same. of the same Kevlar (CBM) and only the lining is made of sandwich based on glass and carbon fiber reinforced plastic With a filler or honeycomb or a type of foam.
              1. Errr 12 January 2020 08: 48 New
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                The MC-21 wing is made mainly of carbon fiber. There is a certain amount of fiberglass in the center section design and metal wing socks and engine mount pylons.
                About the presence in the wing of a promising Russian medium-range narrow-body passenger aircraft Kevlar (if you are about it, of course) amused. smile
                Anyway, thanks for the answer. hi
  3. bessmertniy 11 January 2020 08: 25 New
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    Some kind of breakthrough is needed. In principle, composites provide a wide range of applications. And the release of the latest materials can provide not only domestic needs, but also go for export. You can make good money on them. what
  4. Strashila 11 January 2020 08: 29 New
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    “It turned out that we are not only lagging behind in the field of composites, we are catastrophically lagging.” And who should create composites ?. Private trader? Yes, he is on the drum, he is only interested in quick money. State? But does it know what he needs?
    Soviet military-industrial complex planned for decades, everything took time to develop, manufacture, implement.
    Various channels were used to acquire technology in the West, but all this was done after careful preparation, and not as it is now, to build a plant for a lard of greens, which at the construction stage had gone bankrupt and was preparing to produce products that no one needed.
    Where it was possible to buy dual-use technologies, and where civilian to use for defense needs.
    It was not possible to buy, so industrial espionage organized by the USSR was recognized as the best in the world.
    Only to whom can secrets obtained in this way nowadays be given away for use?
    Back in the days of socialism, the GDR intelligence specialist wrote that in the West, interaction between business and the state in the field of intelligence and information exchange has been worked out.
    And with whom in our country can you share information?
    1. Svetlana 11 January 2020 08: 55 New
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      and who should create composites ?. Private trader? Yes, he is on the drum, he is only interested in quick money. State? But does it know what he needs?

      Yes, a private trader, the state does not produce anything under capitalism, does not own any enterprises and does not participate in the production process. The state in advanced capitalist countries creates (or has created) such conditions that it is profitable for private capital to work and create a product.
      In Russia, unfortunately, all significant enterprises have been created with the participation of state capital, and this is probably a hindrance.
      1. businessv 11 January 2020 10: 30 New
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        Quote: Svetlana
        In Russia, unfortunately, all significant enterprises have been created with the participation of state capital, and this is probably a hindrance.

        The brake in Russia is her government, a colleague! An unlimited budget, staffing, search and development of advanced technologies is possible only in state-owned enterprises, this was proved by the USSR in the period 1930-1939, when from an agrarian country turned into a leading industrial power in 10 years. No capstran could repeat this in its entire history! Private capital cares only about its well-being, and not about the well-being of its country and the people of its country, this is an axiom, colleague! Therefore, all high-tech enterprises should build a state and set them a specific task. Well, if the Cabinet does not know where to invest the funds accumulated in the National Welfare Fund (after all, for this you need to be able to think strategically), what can you talk about ?!
        1. Svetlana 11 January 2020 12: 37 New
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          The brake in Russia is her government, a colleague!

          Well, what am I talking about? drinks
          About the same.
        2. Vadim237 11 January 2020 13: 14 New
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          “Well, if the Cabinet does not know where to invest the funds accumulated in the National Welfare Fund” - the NWF, the Russian State Reserve Fund, is part of the long-term pension provision mechanism for Russian citizens. Nobody will invest it in science-intensive industries because they know that these are extremely risky investments with a long payback. This year, 886 billion rubles will be allocated for science and education for industrial production under the May decrees, 2024 trillion will be allocated as a separate line until 1.6 - this is the money that will be invested in the very high-tech production developments, etc. And from this year the budget surplus will be spent on national projects.
          1. businessv 11 January 2020 20: 30 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            2024 trillion will be allocated for industrial production under the May decrees as a separate line until 1.6

            Have you heard about the development strategy adopted in 2008 and to be implemented in the current one?
            “It outlined the general goals proposed to be achieved by the Government of the Russian Federation by 2020. Approved on November 17, 2008.”
            So, according to this Strategy, this year we will have to receive minimum salaries of 2700 (in US rubles)! Believe it? Nobody believes because not a single point of this strategy has been implemented so far. May decrees will not be implemented either, be sure! And now about the main thing - who will bear the responsibility for non-compliance with the above? That was what my first post was about - first, to attract the guilty of squandering, then everything else!
            1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 22: 31 New
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              Strategy 2008 - remained the strategy that covered itself in the same 2008th when the global economic crisis hit, and at the end of 2014 another one, only this protracted sanction.
          2. businessv 11 January 2020 20: 48 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            the reserve fund is part of the long-term pension mechanism of citizens of the Russian Federation. Nobody will invest it in science-intensive industries because they know that these are extremely risky investments with a long payback.

            It is certainly part of the PF, but only 7% are inviolable, all that is higher should be invested and make a profit. Right now, our invaluable cadres have decided to contribute everything above to the redemption of Sberbank from the Central Bank. Both Sberbank and the Central Bank are government agencies. Then what is the point of shifting public funds from one pocket to another? And so that the head does not hurt, where to put it - this time, to fill the pockets of employees and others like the Central Bank - these are two and in order not to strain your brain again for a while with the question "where to put the money so that it can be then sawed up? " - three!
            1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 22: 33 New
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              At least the NWF money will not be lost - all investments carry a risk, part to a lesser extent, part to a greater extent.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. cradle 11 January 2020 10: 51 New
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        Well, when in the 90s the enterprises were private, why didn’t the breakthrough come about, eh? Again, the "invisible hand" of the FSE market will destroy? She doesn’t rake a damn thing. All technological breakthroughs under the leadership of the state, and private traders it is Elon Musk.
        1. bar
          bar 11 January 2020 13: 24 New
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          Elon Musk is also working on his missiles under the state roof and with state money.
  5. rocket757 11 January 2020 08: 34 New
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    . It’s easy to lose, but it’s hard to catch up

    That is true. Our industry, the state, the PEOPLE, have a long way to go to restore, or even revive, their lost positions in so many directions.
    The top would like to remind you that without the hard work of OUR PEOPLE, nothing like this can happen!
    And now the question is - And for whom exactly does our state exist?
    I would like to see REAL MATTERS, and not empty campaigns from TV screens!
    1. Professor 11 January 2020 09: 45 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      Our industry, the state, the PEOPLE, have a long way to go to restore, or even revive, their lost positions in so many directions.

      De write nonsense. While pipes are being pulled to Europe and China, there can be no talk of any high-tech industry. Your bowels are your punishment.
      1. rocket757 11 January 2020 10: 48 New
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        Common truths.
        I don’t have illusions, I just need to ... and how will it be, is that a question?
        Quote: Professor
        Your bowels are your punishment

        Do not write nonsense. Our troubles are in a completely different place. In the heads of so many, both below and at the very top.
        1. Professor 11 January 2020 12: 27 New
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          Quote: rocket757
          Do not write nonsense. Our troubles are in a completely different place. In the heads of so many, both below and at the very top.

          At the top, you choose them yourself. However, as below.

          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: Professor
          Your bowels are your punishment.

          Need to urgently sell for a song? belay

          That is what you are doing now. I suggest not living off the pipe, but developing industry. And when it is at the level of the United States, it is possible to trade in oil.
          1. rocket757 11 January 2020 12: 45 New
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            Quote: Professor
            At the top, you choose them yourself. However, as below

            That's right, YOURSELF! we’ll choose and fill our brains with all kinds of nonsense ... not without outside help, but nobody really prevents us from moving our brains more actively, i.e. turn on common sense mode!
            I do not believe that this can be taken as reassurance, but WE ARE NOT ALONE!
      2. cradle 11 January 2020 10: 55 New
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        Well, the fact that mattresses extract oil more than the Russian Federation (and only the fact that they themselves are the largest consumers keeps them from pulling pipes through the Atlantic to Europe laughing ), then this is good for them? Evgeys always have double standards. Low
      3. Ingvar 72 11 January 2020 11: 03 New
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        Quote: Professor
        Your bowels are your punishment.

        Need to urgently sell for a song? belay
      4. Vadim237 11 January 2020 13: 18 New
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        Pipes are engaged in some high-tech industry, others are engaged in - all are busy in their fields and the former do not interfere with the latter.
        1. rocket757 11 January 2020 15: 23 New
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          Quote: Vadim237
          Pipes are engaged in some high-tech industry, others are engaged in - all are busy in their fields and the former do not interfere with the latter.

          Trumpet, this is the real recharge of everything else! This should not go on forever!
  6. antivirus 11 January 2020 08: 46 New
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    the scout asked questions - who will answer the partners?
  7. midshipman 11 January 2020 08: 46 New
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    Everything is solved very simply if it is entrusted to specialists. I will give an example. I had to create a fundamentally new equipment for our promising fighter interceptors and missiles. Then I worked at NII-33. We stopped on glass substrates instead of printed circuit boards and microassemblies instead of microcircuits. A year later, the equipment was already on the fighters and was placed on missiles. But people worked around the clock and received a decent salary. And now this is lost due to privatization
    1. Strashila 11 January 2020 10: 12 New
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      Then there was the STATE.
      “And now this is lost due to privatization”, it is not lost, it is destroyed.
      When they talk about the backwardness of Soviet technology in the 80s, they forget that the entire modern computer industry in the West grew up in the 90s. From the very idea of ​​processors to silicon processing.
      Back in the years of World War II, a formula was deduced for why to bomb an aircraft factory, an armored one if they can simply be stopped by bombing a ball bearing.
      As happened in Krasnoyarsk, the Khimvolokno plant was “closed”, a chain reaction began, there was no cord, the production at Shinnoye and RTI stopped immediately, the Shelen plant closed, the SK plant sank into production, rubber was no longer needed.
      And there are less than a dozen such plants in the world.
      This is only the bottom chain and in one city, but in the volume of the country.
      Everything that could work for export was destroyed.
      1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 13: 23 New
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        The entire modern computer industry has grown in Silicon Valley in the United States since the 50s - and ours began to copy their designs from the 60s abandoning their own.
        1. Strashila 11 January 2020 17: 38 New
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          Dad of the first Stump is a Soviet engineer who moved to the West.
          1. Strashila 12 January 2020 07: 22 New
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            Vladimir Mstislavovich Pentkovsky (March 18, 1946, Moscow - December 24, 2012, Folsom) is a Russian-American scientist, a graduate of the Faculty of FRTK MIPT, Doctor of Technical Sciences, laureate of the State Prize. He is one of the developers of the Soviet Elbrus supercomputers and the high-level programming language El-76. In the early 1990s he emigrated to the United States, where since 1993 he worked at Intel. One of the architects on the team that worked on the SSE extensions. He led the architecture and performance analysis of the Pentium III processor.
      2. Alf
        Alf 11 January 2020 16: 49 New
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        Quote: Strashila
        Everything that could work for export was destroyed.

        Everything that could constitute a threat to the West was destroyed.
        1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 18: 14 New
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          What exactly is it - can be more specific?
          1. Alf
            Alf 11 January 2020 18: 22 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            What exactly is it - can be more specific?

            Khimvolokno plant was “closed”, a chain reaction began, cordage didn’t disappear, production at Shinnoye and RTI immediately stopped, the Shelen plant closed, the SK plant sank into production, rubber was not needed in such a volume.
            And there are less than a dozen such plants in the world.
            1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 22: 35 New
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              Rosatom and several other companies are engaged in composites.
    2. businessv 11 January 2020 10: 18 New
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      Quote: midshipman
      We stopped on glass substrates instead of printed circuit boards

      It was a real breakthrough, a familiar topic!
  8. Eug
    Eug 11 January 2020 09: 12 New
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    It is necessary to systematically raise all chemistry - LCP, polymers, energy (fuel and gunpowder), materials for the electronic industry, the depth of processing of raw materials. Then the defense industry will be much easier to do only with domestic materials without loss of performance. Do not pull in only one direction!
  9. Paul Siebert 11 January 2020 09: 18 New
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    But in this matter, the main thing is determination and desire. And we have a desire ...

    Yes, and with the desire in the government a lot of stress ...
    The second day the country is discussing the revolutionary decision of iPhone.
    Prohibit the sale of chewing tobacco! Snaps ...
    The fateful trend is being discussed on all channels ...
    What composites? What other industry?
    Snusa is our everything!
    Already relieved from the heart. Now let's live!
    1. Andrey VOV 11 January 2020 09: 40 New
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      One doesn’t interfere ... what kind of specialist will it come out of the gunners? No .... it’s time to stop the murder of children and teenagers by this muck ...
    2. businessv 11 January 2020 10: 16 New
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      Quote: Paul Siebert
      Yes, and with the desire in the government a lot of stress ...

      Our government has several desires - to rule as long as possible, steal as much as possible and then leave as far as possible!
  10. Vitaly Tsymbal 11 January 2020 09: 30 New
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    The situation with composite materials has arisen not now. Anyone who remembers Buran remembers that at that time we had to urgently create our own composites. Today the situation is similar, with the difference that at that time the state took upon itself the costs of creating the necessary materials, today our state is afraid to take upon itself the costs of developing any industry, trying to shift everything to a private trader ... A systemic mistake of those in power is a misunderstanding that the market exists in the state, and not the state in the market. Putin in 2000 came as a “statesman,” who the farther, the more he turns into a “market man”, assigning the role of the state exclusively to international relations, the court and security (of his power) ... At one time I had to interact a little with the campaign that was engaged in the search for "know-how" in the Russian Federation, I did not even imagine that we have so many new and unique developments, especially among young people, but they are not in demand by our state, therefore they are bought up by "partners" from behind the hill, and then issued for their achievements. I repeat - I only touched this area a LITTLE-LITTLE, but was very struck by the fact that our scientists can !!!!
    1. businessv 11 January 2020 10: 12 New
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      Quote: Vitaliy Tsymbal
      I repeat - I only touched this area a LITTLE-LITTLE, but was very struck by the fact that our scientists can !!!!

      A similar situation, colleague! 100% simple! In the field of wind energy, there were such developments that allowed entire villages to abandon common electricity networks.
  11. Professor 11 January 2020 09: 37 New
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    The military-industrial complex is a driver for the modernization and development of the industry, including the sector of new materials.

    Mistake number 1. The defense industry or defense industry is a brake on progress. Today, technology flows from a citizen into the military-industrial complex, and not vice versa.

    This is a triune task. Expanding the network of scientific institutes, training personnel for these institutes and for production, and creating new technological industries. A lot of?

    Mistake number 2. First you need to pay engineers and young scientists since they are paid at least in China. There will be better composites, the bourgeois will stand in line.

    Today in the production of composite materials there is a clear skew. We do not have components for the production of some parts of aircraft, but there are hypersonic weapons, for example - "Dagger". It is clear that the creation of these missiles is impossible without the use of composites.

    Mistake number 3. Do not believe advertising, but trust store shelves. Why did you decide that in the absence of composites, suddenly the products in cartoons are made of them?

    We then could not only create such a composite ourselves, but also purchase something similar abroad. Similar products were produced only in the USA (Hexcel) and in Japan (Toray Industries). Composites proposed by the Chinese did not meet the requirements.

    I confirm. The former colleague has his own carbon manufacturing company. Raw materials can only be bought bourgeois. Chinese goes for cheap consumer goods and it is very rare. Know-how is not in fiber, but in glues.

    Already today, 175 MS-21 aircraft (the so-called portfolio of firm orders) worth $ 9 billion were ordered at Irkut. Next year 7 planes will be assembled, in 2022-12, in 2023 - 25 aircraft. And in 2025 - already 75 aircraft! Agree, the confidence of aircraft manufacturers must be based on something.

    On replacing light and durable bourgeois composites with domestic "iron".

    The restoration of the positions lost during the years of perestroika is a long process. It’s easy to lose, but it’s hard to catch up. But in this matter, the main thing is determination and desire. And we have a desire ...

    Error number 4. You can not lose what was not.
    1. cradle 11 January 2020 10: 58 New
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      a fundamental minus from me - patamusha lies from beginning to end- even too lazy to answer a liar. angry
  12. steelmaker 11 January 2020 09: 37 New
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    The main thing that they tried to convey in the article was the result of the reign of PUTIN !!! 20 years is not enough for industry to be and be independent?
    1. businessv 11 January 2020 10: 08 New
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      Quote: steel maker
      20 years is not enough for industry to be and be independent?

      Before the EBN’s reign and the collapse of the Union, the industry was independent, colleague! For 10 years, EBN drank, handed out and destroyed everything that was possible and impossible! Until now, his entourage drives in Russia.
      1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 13: 34 New
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        "Before the reign of EBN and the collapse of the Union, industry was independent." Well, yes, "independent" - when I buy industrial equipment and machine tools worth tens of billions of rubles from abroad, I will not list all that critically necessary that the USSR did not do.
        1. businessv 11 January 2020 20: 40 New
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          Quote: Vadim237
          When I buy industrial equipment and machine tools worth tens of billions of rubles from abroad, I won’t list all the critical things that the USSR did not do.
          I worked in the real sector, I know this firsthand. We bought machines that our industry did not produce and which were needed in a single copy, that’s what happened. And there was also a machine-tool industry in the country, which completely provided the most demanded directions with the necessary machines! And also the research institutes that these machines designed. And so it is true in all sectors, during the stagnation, a lot of “air” projects appeared, for show, but the work went on.
      2. cradle 13 January 2020 11: 18 New
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        I add that the country was on the verge of collapse. And when it comes to collapse, when the production relations of the USSR are broken, and new ones have not been created, then what kind of industry are you talking about? Not to fat.
        1. businessv 14 January 2020 02: 34 New
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          Quote: besik
          I add that the country was on the verge of collapse.

          This is a myth, colleague !!! What kind of collapse are you talking about ?! Until recently, no one even thought that such a country could be destroyed! Remember at least a referendum that has not been ratified! After all, 76,43% of the citizens supported the preservation of this country! Who was responsible for the refusal to recognize the results of the referendum ?! After all, legally the USSR still exists! No one had the spirit to ruin it legally! And you are "on the verge of collapse ..." The collapse is only in your head! (C)
          1. cradle 14 January 2020 08: 29 New
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            you are talking about the legal side. Let's talk about the actual.
            1. businessv 14 January 2020 13: 06 New
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              Quote: besik
              you are talking about the legal side. Let's talk about the actual.

              This conversation will pull on an article twice as much discussed! smile Look at the graphs of the GDP of the USSR from 1984 to 1990, everything will become clear. Incomes of citizens grew, enterprises were bent. The system could not be rebuilt in time, the adjusters xp @ are new!
              1. cradle 15 January 2020 03: 28 New
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                enterprises were not bent on the fact that citizens' incomes grew. They were bent because the hunchback legalized the guilds. They transferred the profit from production into their pocket from the pocket of enterprises first, and then from the pocket of the state. It was a robbery of the country under the guise of perestroika. And this one is still croaking.
                1. businessv 15 January 2020 11: 30 New
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                  Quote: besik
                  They transferred the profit from production into their pocket from the pocket of enterprises first, and then from the pocket of the state. It was a robbery of the country under the guise of perestroika.

                  So am I about the same thing! Without adopting any laws protecting enterprises and regulating private activity, it was impossible to open up opportunities for outright robbery!
    2. gridd 15 January 2020 07: 21 New
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      20 years is even a lot. For a shorter period of years (1924-1941), Stalin managed to get away from the policy of war communism and industrialize the country. Yes, few people liked his methods of action, but without the industry focused on accelerated mobilization for the production of military products, it would not have been possible to win the war. Certain steps of the CDF of the Russian Federation have been made, but there are few of them. Motivation of performers is done by persuading and pouring money. Without profit, they are unlikely to hit a finger on a finger.
  13. businessv 11 January 2020 10: 04 New
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    The restoration of the positions lost during the years of perestroika is a long process. It’s easy to lose, but it’s hard to catch up. But in this matter, the main thing is determination and desire. And we have a desire ...
    Alexander, thanks for the topic, the article is needed! To restore the positions lost during the years of perestroika, there is little determination and desire, it should begin with a revision of privatization, when successful enterprises, the red clown, the current head of RosOnano, "gave away for the ruble!" And the “successful min-e-tzher” enterprises that acquired these enterprises did not know what to do with them and cut unique equipment for scrap or, more advanced, squeezed out everything that was possible and only then cut it for scrap! The unique knowledge base, the carriers of this knowledge and the knowledge implementation base have been destroyed. Now the state must create it again ?! I think that for starters, it’s necessary to recognize the mistakes of privatization, bring those responsible for making these mistakes to justice, return the enterprises and intellectual property belonging to him earlier to state ownership, close the possibility of withdrawing monstrous amounts of state funds abroad, and only after that will there be an opportunity to fully catch up with what has gone ahead peace! And all of the above will be called "determination and desire"! hi
    1. max702 11 January 2020 11: 24 New
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      Quote: businessv
      ! I think that for starters, it’s necessary to recognize the mistakes of privatization, bring those responsible for making these mistakes to justice, return the enterprises and intellectual property belonging to him earlier to state ownership, close the possibility of withdrawing monstrous amounts of state funds abroad, and only after that will there be an opportunity to fully catch up with what has gone ahead peace!

      Alas, in this case, from the side of the "partners" the iron curtain will fall and no contacts will be possible with all the consequences .. They will not arrest money, they will not deliver technology, equipment .. On our own, we simply won’t cope too deep inside State 5 and 6 columns, as a result of these actions they will lose EVERYTHING on this, they will never allow the development of such a scenario .. The top leadership of the country understands this very well, therefore they don’t wave a saber, but they are trying to move forward with great creak and monstrous losses. idiotic decisions and long deadlines .. Otherwise, there’ll be no options at all, there will be another devastation that will finally finish the country .. We now have two ways to put pressure on the world bourgeoisie - nuclear weapons and energy resources .. It is with the second component that they mainly work now by entangling gas \ oil pipelines as much of the accessible world as possible to become an indispensable player to whose opinion they will listen .. On the other hand, this understand perfectly, but the superprofits that they get are tempting and give us at least some chance .. AS long as our country has no other resources ..
      1. businessv 11 January 2020 21: 01 New
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        Quote: max702
        Alas, in this case, from the side of the "partners" the iron curtain will fall and no contacts will be possible with all the consequences.

        Yes, they do not let us anywhere and they don’t share anything with us, therefore this is not the main thing. It would be the desire of the authorities, the availability of intellectual and material resources, and this is enough! Our people are smart and hard-working, only very trusting! smile
        1. max702 11 January 2020 22: 00 New
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          Quote: businessv
          the availability of intellectual and material resources, and this is enough!

          There are big problems with this .. In words, there are all types, but in reality there is nothing .. At the top, therefore, everyone understands this quietly and slowly ..
      2. cradle 13 January 2020 11: 22 New
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        the world no longer rests on some partners, it is in fact becoming multipolar and this needs to be taken advantage of. And "other resources" slowly but appear (defense industry, agricultural, industry rises from its knees (shipbuilding, I am already gladly buying a Russian instrument, including atom))
        1. max702 13 January 2020 13: 08 New
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          Quote: besik
          And "other resources" slowly but appear (defense industry, agricultural, industry rises from its knees

          I’m talking about this and say that for these reasons everything is very SLOW .. But the main complaint of the liberda and a considerable part of the population is why so little has been done in 20 years ..
          1. cradle 14 January 2020 08: 22 New
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            I answer the liberde: Because you are “superhuman” (note max 702 how I managed without a mat) were not armed with jigsaws and shovels and have not yet been sent to build a bridge to Sakhalin and continue the Stalinist road from Igarka to Pevek! Just because! Therefore, if you start stupid foreheads smear with green stuff, then there will be an incredible leap in the development of Russia.
  14. Million 11 January 2020 10: 39 New
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    The reason for all the problems of Russia every day in the news flickers
  15. Zaurbek 11 January 2020 11: 23 New
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    In the case of MC21, they wrote that Rosatom, who had the production of the necessary composites, helped out.
  16. rica1952 11 January 2020 12: 12 New
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    The USSR had its own (I emphasize) production and raw materials base for the production of composite materials. The level of performance was comparable with the best foreign samples and we excelled in a number of materials. These materials were widely introduced in aviation and rocket and space technology, this is not a secret and all experts they are well-known from this industry. After the military coup 93g and the arrival of efficient managers, almost everything was destroyed, the main thing is personnel. Therefore, at present the Russian Federation simply does not have that potential, there are no personnel, no production facilities, hence there is no way to create advanced equipment.
    1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 13: 39 New
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      But the USSR also did not create advanced equipment in the civil industry - now in Russia gas turbines, fiber optics, large-diameter pipes, thermal imagers, MRIs, economical aircraft engines for civil aviation, and much more have begun to be made.
      1. rica1952 11 January 2020 14: 21 New
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        The USSR did a half-hour advanced equipment and gas turbines and large-diameter pipes did the same, though our heads special on galoshes affirms that they did nothing except galoshes, well this is of course a diagnosis.
        1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 15: 44 New
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          Show this gas turbine - similar to the current GTE 110M, which was made in the USSR. "The USSR made half a hundred advanced technology." - You are raving.
  17. Sirocco 11 January 2020 14: 32 New
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    At the expense of carbon fiber, who produced it in the Union? Where did it come from at the UMZ, PMZ, (plants manufacturing ballistic missiles) I still have a couple of pieces of this material. I think that this material was produced in the Union, and not the USA supplied it to us, did this production really bother?
    1. rica1952 11 January 2020 14: 50 New
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      Carbon fiber in the USSR was produced by Svetlogorsk NPO, chemical fiber, Balakovo NPO chemical fiber, and a little Mytishchi NPP chemical fiber. all UUKM.Vot something like that.
  18. seacap 11 January 2020 15: 29 New
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    Our "effective managers" and gas pipelines began to be laid without having a single pipe layer with the required parameters, and the rockets were still royal, but they learned to master budget money and cut the budget in foreign studies, there are no equal to Chubais, etc., without producing anything, receive a millionth salary and enter the Forbes list. A state created on the basis of betrayal and deceit, with the help of crime and lies, is not viable and cannot be creatively developed, it is intended solely to receive instant and short-term profit.
    1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 15: 53 New
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      Russia has two pieces of pipelines, one of which will be equipped and it will continue the construction of joint venture 2 - Gazprom has already announced a tender, but since Russia will no longer build offshore pipelines and will begin to increase deliveries abroad LNG, there is no point in building new offshore pipelines.
  19. evgen1221 11 January 2020 16: 17 New
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    Why is it so difficult to solve the problem with composites-personnel and their preparation, the incentive to introduce something in general, the production of means of production.
  20. AnderS 11 January 2020 16: 39 New
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    What is there to talk about, what composites ?! In Russia they don’t produce their bearings, the basis is the foundation of all mechanical engineering, and the author is crying about composites ...
    1. seacap 11 January 2020 17: 25 New
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      Not a single new aircraft engine in 30 years, with ship generators and diesel engines, has completely collapsed, now research institutes that provide the basics of ACS and electronic warfare systems have been put up for sale (destruction), and Taburetkin came to life and took on his own, already laid his eyes on the LII, he did not last long it remains, after the son of Rogozin, Il in agony, and KB Mil and Kamov will face the unenviable fate of destruction. The colonial administration, under the supervision of the Central Bank and the Higher School of Economics, eagerly rushed to fulfill the owner’s order.
      1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 18: 32 New
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        PD 14, NK 56M for PAK DA, a second-stage engine for Su 57, an electric motor for small aircraft, a combined ramjet + liquid propellant rocket engine for an aerospace aircraft, demonstrated as far back as the 2016th for the future of civil aviation we have this
        all institutes, and there are 816 of them, continue their work - and nobody put them up for any sale. D500 marine diesel engines in Kolomna will be launched next year. For less panic.
    2. Vadim237 11 January 2020 18: 22 New
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      They produce: slides, rolling, magnetic - as the market demands, but our market is open and our manufacturers, including myself, are not alone - the last word for the buyer. Would buy from me a million bearings per year - the office would make a million bearings per year.
  21. Viktor77 11 January 2020 17: 12 New
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    Quote: businessv
    Quote: Svetlana
    In Russia, unfortunately, all significant enterprises have been created with the participation of state capital, and this is probably a hindrance.

    The brake in Russia is her government, a colleague! An unlimited budget, staffing, search and development of advanced technologies is possible only in state-owned enterprises, this was proved by the USSR in the period 1930-1939, when from an agrarian country turned into a leading industrial power in 10 years. No capstran could repeat this in its entire history! Private capital cares only about its well-being, and not about the well-being of its country and the people of its country, this is an axiom, colleague! Therefore, all high-tech enterprises should build a state and set them a specific task. Well, if the Cabinet does not know where to invest the funds accumulated in the National Welfare Fund (after all, for this you need to be able to think strategically), what can you talk about ?!

    You are right at 100%. It's a pity you can’t put a hundred pluses!
  22. seacap 11 January 2020 17: 16 New
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    Quote: Vadim237
    there is no point in building new offshore pipe layers.

    Are these pipelines eternal? That's what the Swiss "sea" and "gas power" orders for their pipe layers for several years to come, and they are so narrow-minded that they acquired expensive, useless vessels.
    1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 18: 35 New
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      Enough for 60 years. And the Swiss took their niche in services; the market was too narrow for Russia to fall into it.
  23. Dzafdet 11 January 2020 18: 21 New
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    And the USA also helps us: either we will go bankrupt and the fire will be arranged .... Well, the managers are right there ...
  24. LomKuvaldych 11 January 2020 19: 06 New
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    20 years of Putinism is the reason for the lag in any field.
    1. Vadim237 11 January 2020 22: 40 New
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      If there is a lag, it’s only a point in certain sectors, everything else is already at the level of the West or is approaching it.
      1. LomKuvaldych 12 January 2020 19: 59 New
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        Such a point that the permission to supply the SSJ-100 must be asked at the US Treasury.
        1. Vadim237 13 January 2020 00: 23 New
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          In the next modification, you don’t need to ask anyone else anymore - and there is no country in which they completely do all the components of a civilian aircraft. In this regard, Russia will be the first.
  25. Basarev 11 January 2020 20: 21 New
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    First of all, the main task should be solved - the real demand for technical and scientific professions. It is decided only in rubles, that is, in fact, in excess of salaries (not the present pathetic twenty or thirty, another cashier gets more) and special conditions (firm retirement at a convenient age, not subject to any adjustments, for example, strictly at 60 with a direct ban at least increase) ... Well, the real weight in society is right up to a direct impact on even government decisions. For example, an unpopular law is planned - open letters from professors can cancel it. The dispersal of the scientific mafia, extremely harsh, is also here, there are no people of your own, near and necessary.
    1. zombirusrev 11 January 2020 20: 36 New
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      Courier Yandex food gets at times more see hh.ru
  26. zombirusrev 11 January 2020 20: 35 New
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    Because the first enterprise that rebuilders destroyed and privatized, and Chubais personally, was the Scientific Research Institute of Chemical Fibers and Composite Materials with an experimental plant in Leningrad with allied enterprises and branches. Hello to the builders and effective managers.
  27. Nikolai 11 January 2020 21: 50 New
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    What is the volume of industrial production in Russia, such is the consumption of composites. Domestic and imported. This is the place in the world ranking. And do not "all is lost!" - everything is fine. Composites for the black wing are high-tech. It takes time to develop domestic technologies (Western technologies, apparently, will not be sold to us). Actually, as long as the government supports manufacturers of rolled steel sheets, the consumption of composites will not increase significantly since the main direction of the introduction of composites is shipbuilding, automotive, car building.
  28. Technologist 12 January 2020 08: 59 New
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    But we have Rusnano and Skolkovo.
  29. Alex Fox 12 January 2020 13: 12 New
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    Quote: Vadim237
    The entire modern computer industry has grown in Silicon Valley in the United States since the 50s - and ours began to copy their designs from the 60s abandoning their own.

    neighing ..... study the question victim of the exam
    1. Vadim237 12 January 2020 17: 03 New
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      So you study - if the victim is empty-headed, especially about the architectures that ours refused - by switching to copying AMD.
  30. Anton Yu 13 January 2020 09: 04 New
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    Where is the production schedule from? The manufacturer promises the PD-14 engine in 2022-23, and the series will be launched another year later.
  31. Pavel57 13 January 2020 11: 02 New
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    MS-21 with an aluminum wing could also appear.
  32. kriten 13 January 2020 14: 38 New
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    To solve such issues, one needs a little: 1. in the government to have people with intelligence, and not brainless accountants looking for only ways to save 2. The desire to work, and not draw reports with invented numbers. 3. To ensure the implementation of the country's primary needs with money, and not with saving tips, without allocating money.
  33. Dedok 14 January 2020 15: 53 New
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    I am not a technologist to reason in this topic, but I am a fishing enthusiast.
    In the states there is such a grandfather - Harry Loomis, who back in the early 90s came to us to look at our composites and was pleased with what he saw. His gear, both spinning and fly fishing, is known throughout the world.
    Therefore, I can assume that for the beginning of 90, everything was so bad with us.
    And what happened then - I won’t write, remember the speech - "why do we need to release this - we will buy it!" - this is the answer to all problems.
  34. Serg sh 15 January 2020 12: 50 New
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    These kicks at every turn, Simmens, Nord Stream 2, just do not like horse feed .. we first privatize production, and then remain without them .. and repeat everything in a circle - we create, privatize, give .. at the expense of taxpayers ..