Secret Protocols of the West

Amazing things happen around the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Western researchers finally realized that all European colonial-democratic powers had similar pacts with Hitler, that it was a Soviet-German non-aggression treaty, and not a military alliance to attack Poland, as it was portrayed by various kinds of “national institutions of memory” that is, official falsifiers storiesperforming a political order. Now they cling to his "secret protocols" on the "partition of Poland."

Common European practice

In the context of that pre-war time, secret protocols with Hitler, written and unwritten (oral), which the Western press defiantly hinted at at that time, had all the parties to the 1938 Munich Peace Treaty of Western Colonial Democracies with Hitler, which provided for the partition of Czechoslovakia. The partition and occupation of Czechoslovakia by Hitler and Poland can be considered the beginning of World War II in Europe.

The reason for this was the Hitler-Pilsudski Pact, Poland became the first country to sign a “pact” with Hitler in January 1934, and it had its own “secret protocols”, says a number of historians who contained a plan for a joint “campaign to the East.”

These Polish "secret protocols" still cannot be found, Warsaw denies their existence, but documents have been found in the archives of the Polish General Staff that testify to German-Polish plans for a war with the USSR during the time of Marshal Pilsudski. The fact of a great personal friendship between Hitler and Pilsudski is well known, Adolf was very grieved over the death of his Polish friend in 1935, and this friendship of dictators requires understanding in the context of the missing Polish-German "secret protocols".

In general, secret protocols were common practice of that pre-war era. The Anglo-Polish military treaty, signed on August 25, 1939, had its secret protocols in which Germany was determined to be the military adversary of this alliance. If we equate the protocols with the treaties themselves, then England was involved in Hitler’s attack on Poland on September 1, 1939, as she declared Germany her adversary in a military treaty with Poland, and Hitler and the General Staff were aware of this ...

After the Polish military disaster in September 1939, England did not fulfill its contractual obligations, leaving Warsaw to its mercy. Neither England nor France had any claims to the USSR, but agreed to its right to strengthen its borders with Germany. Winston Churchill bluntly said that the USSR made the only right decision, pushing its borders west in 1939. Therefore, historically, the question of "the union of Hitler and Stalin" in 1939 was closed in the same year. But the Polish Institute of Remembrance, and then the Prime Minister of Poland, today announce to us the Polish version of the outbreak of war, they speak of a "union of Hitler and Stalin." What is this talking about?

Novopilsudskaya Poland

Today we are dealing with “Novopilsudskaya” Poland, which has returned to the legacy and testaments of its Marshal Pilsudski, who was famous for his great hostility to the USSR-Russia. Any improvement in relations between European capitals and Moscow causes Russophobia attacks in Warsaw. Should German Chancellor Merkel only talk about the need to establish good relations with Russia, Warsaw immediately shouts that this is a new Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, which supposedly led to the partition of Poland. And it doesn’t occur to anyone there how they insult modern Germany and Russia.

This position of Warsaw simply compels Russia to remind Warsaw of the friendship between Pan Pilsudski and Hitler, Poland and Germany, right up to a joint partition with Czechoslovakia of Germany. For this, Churchill called then Poland "hyena of Europe".

In early 1939, Warsaw made a sharp turn towards a military alliance with England, and not with the USSR. Therefore, the USSR was not obliged to defend the "Pilsudan" Poland hostile to it in the face of Germany. After the war, Stalin proved himself simply a humanist in comparison with Pilsudsky, who planned the destruction of the USSR along with Hitler. Stalin returned to Poland statehood, socialist, of course, but he had no other. It did not occur to Stalin to give Poland as a bridgehead to the United States, as he is accused of by today's "memory institutions."

Interestingly, today's turn of Poland towards America to the peak of Germany and France repeats the turn of Poland in 1939 towards England. Having raised the Pilsudski legacy on the shield, Warsaw has now set her sights on Galicia, which under Pilsudski was a Polish province, and is thinking of leaning on this in the USA. And he is trying to push Germany around, setting up new bills for damage in the Second World War. If things go on like this, then, using the Polish political science apparatus, Poland will come to its next section.

In such a situation, Russia does not need to do anything, it simply will not prevent Germany from restoring the historical justice that suffered from Stalin. There is no continuity of Poland with its socialist period - there are no obligations of Russia to preserve the territorial integrity of Poland.

Casus Lipsky

A recent definition by Vladimir Putin of the Polish ambassador Lipsky to Germany from the time of Pilsudski as an “anti-Semitic pig” suggests that Moscow will no longer tolerate Polish insults about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and Poland’s official position: “The USSR attacked Poland in 1939, just like Germany ". Polish observers correctly noted that Russia will now accuse Poland of involvement in the outbreak of World War II. And not only Poland, perhaps.

Historical issues are always politics, and Putin’s quotation of the Polish ambassador Lipsky about the “magnificent monument to Hitler in Warsaw” is politics. Moscow will no longer let Warsaw and other "partners" down their anti-Russian historical statements, equating Hitler with Stalin and Nazi Germany with the USSR. Until now, Moscow had hoped that at least common sense would prevail and limited itself only to a general condemnation of Western "historians." Now Moscow is preparing to give its assessments to Western figures and actions, without hesitation. They are not shy ...

To do this is quite simple: we must give the context of those historical events that our “partners” throw out, as in the case of Ambassador Lipsky. They say who owns history, owns today. This is our present day that we are upholding, citing facts from Lipsky as opposed to the works of institutions of national memory. There are many similar facts in our archives.

Comments

[zloybond]

It has always been clear. You can never be mistaken and most importantly remember who they really are to us.

[knn54]

In 1919, Piłsudski conducted SIMULTANEOUS negotiations with the Bolsheviks and Denikin on the recognition of Poland within the borders of 1772. But both the Soviet regime and General Denikin refused to recognize the borders of 150 years ago. ONLY Ataman Petliura was the only "politician" who agreed to recognize them. Secret Protocols Appeared (to Contract # 1) Pilsudski-Petliura
Article three of the agreement states:
"Joint Polish-Ukrainian actions against Soviet troops on the territory of the right-bank Ukraine, located east of the current line of the Polish-Bolshevik front, are carried out ... under the general command of the Polish troops."
Article Eight of the Agreement:
"Since the beginning of the joint offensive and the occupation of new territories of the right-bank Ukraine, located to the east of the current line of the Polish-Bolshevik front, the government of Ukraine will organize military and civil administration in these territories. The rear of the Polish troops will be guarded by the Polish field gendarmerie."
This is about the Bolshevik aggression against peaceful Poland - the defender of Western civilization ...

[Mikhail3]

Quote: knn54

In 1919, Piłsudski conducted SIMULTANEOUS negotiations with the Bolsheviks and Denikin on the recognition of Poland within the borders of 1772. But both the Soviet regime and General Denikin refused to recognize the borders of 150 years ago. ONLY Ataman Petliura was the only "politician" who agreed to recognize them

The Don Cossacks, in the person of their foreman, instantly betrayed the oath and immediately tried to find who to lie under, so that she, the foreman, would not interfere with robbing. Why not for the Poles?

[Same lech]

Moscow hoped that at least common sense would prevail and limited itself only to a general condemnation of Western "historians." Now Moscow is preparing to give its assessments to Western figures and actions, without hesitation. They are not shy ...

Well, finally they settled down ... how glad I am, how glad I am that a city castle has woken up.

[antivirus]

they did not wake up - in the early 2000s ShvydkoyM, the Minister of Culture did not want to argue with the Poles on the "cultural" issue of creating and renovating the Auschwitz Museum.
all woke up only for a short time.
If VVP personally has to start such a company, for a long time we will endure "the fight against totalitarianism"

[Vladimir_2U]

According to this logic, it is necessary to carry out a normal investigation of Katyn and to stick to the falsifiers and admitters of the "execution by the Soviets" of the Poles as much as possible. When this happens, then it will be possible to understand that the current government of the Russian Federation has changed its mind, and that it is "ours."

[Vikxnumx]

And "like their own" shake!

[Andrzej k]

In your opinion, who killed the Polish officers in Katyn? Martians? The documents of the Politburo are known, even the names of the executioners of the NKVD. Is this falsification in your opinion?

[Vladimir_2U]

These fakes were already sorted out, but it was certainly not the place and method of execution that was fakes, the twine which the hands of the Poles were tied and had German sleeves.

[Andrzej k]

Location and time clearly indicate the offender. twine and German sleeves? this is not proof Even if this does not mean that they were used by the Germans. The USSR owned both ammunition and weapons from Germany. Not only pistol ammunition (the one in the TT was the same as the German Mausera C96), but what he wanted and demanded from Germany - see Tevosyan’s Mission since 1940.

[Vladimir_2U]

Very strange, you are fighting for the Nazi version of the crime! But after all, the USSR did not have a special motive in the destruction of precisely these Poles! Nobody shot Anders' army. And those Poles who were guilty of crimes against citizens of the USSR in the 20s were sentenced and executed earlier than Katyn, even if the Nazi version is believed.

Quote: Andrzej K

Location and time clearly indicate the offender. twine and German sleeves? this is not proof

The place and time of the crime, the instruments of crime are not evidence? This statement is not just stupid, it is, excuse me, idiocy.

Quote: Andrzej K

(the one in the TT was the same as the German Mausera C96)

Even if you don’t know that the cartridges and bullets were 7,65 like Walter PP-K and not 7,62 like TT or Mauser, nobody has canceled the national marking! The cartridges found in Katyn were not brass but made using military technology from phosphated steel, which means that they could not be in the NKVD in 40!
You just do not understand the Soviet specifics! Pistols chambered for 7,65 pocket, for arming senior and senior officials purchased for currency or trophy simply could not be used for executions! They became either award, or dispersed to the highest ranks, or were hidden as souvenirs!

[Andrzej k]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

The place and time of the crime, the instruments of crime are not evidence? This statement is not just stupid, it is, excuse me, idiocy.

You will find German shells shot from a German gun. OK But what is the evidence for this? That they were produced and launched from German weapons is all. However, this does not guarantee who shot these weapons.
in the USSR, the TT 7,62x25 pistol was a short weapon - almost the same as that of the S96., Naga revolver, But Vasily Mikhailovich Blokhin, Nikolai Ivanovich Sinegubov, Mikhail Spiridonovich Krivenko, replaced Nagant's fast-heating revolvers with German Walther PP, hence German sleeves .

The letters and newspapers held by the victims end at the turn of April and May 1940.

According to the testimony of the former Kalinin head of the NKVD, General Dmitry Tokarev from 1991, the executions in Kalinin were organized by his deputy Vasily Pavlov, and a group was sent from Moscow to commit a crime, including senior state security major Nikolai Sinigubov, battalion commander Mikhail Krivievko and major state security Vasily Blokhin

... It may take so long, but what will change? This is the past, and despite the pain, you need to live and move forward - better in friendship than hostility.

[Vladimir_2U]

That is, contrary to logic, we must believe these "documents"?
The text of the interrogation is taken from the Polish edition of Katyn. Dokumenty zbrodni. Tom 2. Zagłada marzec - czerwiec 1940. Opracowały W. Materski, W. Woszcyński, N. Lebiediewa, N. Pietrosowa. W-wa, 1998. S. 432-470.
There, in the very first lines, such nonsense
Tokarev: Member of the CPSU since 1927
Sorry, Polish "historians" with such an extremely low level of faith are no more than Goebbels and Yakovlev.

Text from the conclusion of the Burdenko commission:
Such a situation in the Katyn Forest existed before the war. In the summer of 1941, the pioneer camp of Promstrakhkassi was located in this forest, which was curtailed only in July 1941.
With the occupation of Smolensk by the German invaders in the Katyn Forest, a completely different regime was established. The forest began to be guarded by reinforced patrols; in many places inscriptions appeared warning that persons entering the forest without a special permit were to be shot on the spot.
e) on parts of the documents (even without special studies), when examined, dates were found that relate to the period from November 12, 1940 to June 20, 1941;
notes the complete identity of the method of shooting Polish prisoners of war with the method of shooting civilians and Soviet prisoners of war, widely practiced by the Nazi authorities in the temporarily occupied territory of the USSR, including in the cities of Smolensk, Orel, Kharkov, Krasnodar, Voronezh.

[Andrzej k]

As for the so-called commission of Burdenko

In 1992-1993, during the investigation of the Katyn massacre conducted by the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office of Russia, the report of the Burdenko Commission was analyzed by a group of Russian scientists (B.N. Topornin, A.M. Yakovlev, I.S. Yagorovskaya, V.S. Parsadanova, Yu. N. Zoria, L.V. Belyaev) appointed by the Prosecutor's Office is preparing an expert opinion on the legal qualifications of this crime. In their final decision of August 2, 1993, these experts stated: Announcement of a special commission chaired by N. Burdenko, conclusions and decision of the commission chaired by V. Pozorovsky, ignoring the results of the previous exhumation due to their objectivity, falsification of material evidence, documents and testimony. - it should be considered not meeting the requirements of science, and judgments - not the truth

The use by the USSR authorities of the message of the Burdenko Commission for propaganda purposes ceased in 1990, when the Soviet side on April 13, 1990, in an official announcement of the TASS agency, approved by a resolution of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee of April 7, 1990, recognized that the Katyn massacre was one of the most serious crimes of Stalinism

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Andrzej K

analyzed by a group of Russian scientists (B. N. Topornin, A. M. Yakovlev, I. S. Yagorovskaya, V. S. Parsadanova, Yu. N. Zoria, L. V. Belyaev)

These are the same scientists as from the scientists of the “national institutes of memory” and from Goebbels’s department, conjuncturists and falsifiers.

Quote: Andrzej K

ignoring the results of previous exhumation due to their objectivity

Yes, yes, it’s already clear that the Nazis cannot lie, and they are much closer to you in spirit.

[Andrzej k]

As I understand it, good scientists are only those who support the version of the USSR, known from truth :-)

Goebbels lied like an annoyance, and no one denies it, but even a broken watch twice a day shows a good time. In the case of Katyn, German propaganda received an amazing gift. She should not have lied.

I'm closer to the truth - there is a lot of evidence and documents, including those presented by Russia itself

[Vladimir_2U]

What do these first two pages prove? The fact that on blank forms and from 30x! years, without any signatures and seals, not counting the signatures of the corrupt archivist Pikhoy, in the 90s, did they print the text necessary for the falsifiers? So then she’s fake! And on the third page nothing is said about the proposed measures to the Poles! And moreover, the form from the 40th year !! Those. the first two are obviously fake!
Once again, you and modern Poland are motivated not by a "sense of justice" and certainly not by the desire to be friends with Russia and respect Russia, but by the desire to rip off compensation for a crime committed not by Russia.

[Vladimir_2U]

If you would like to truly

Quote: Andrzej K

need to live and move forward - better in friendship than hostility

they would simply agree with the Soviet version, however, using the betrayal of individual representatives at the beginning of the Soviet and then the Russian top leadership, there was an opportunity to profit from Russia. I really hope that now the Russian government has changed its mind and Poland will not get anything else at the expense of Russia.

[Andrzej k]

Friendship can only be based on respect and truth. The Soviet version is not true.
Assessment of the entire volume of documents in a collective work based on one stupid mistake where the author used the name of the Communist Party in the USSR in the place of the CPSU (B.)
it is not serious and manipulative. Pull out one trivial and minor error to discredit the whole.

But, in spite of everything, I would go and leave the question of Katyn, Mednoy, Ostashkov, Tver, hundreds of thousands of Poles taken to labor camps and dead in Siberia ... to historians. Because it is history and past. And must live
further - we want and do not want neighbors, and for Poland and Russia it would be better not to bury the past, but to focus on the present and future

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Andrzej K

Because it is history and past. And must live
further - we want and do not want neighbors, and for Poland and Russia it would be better not to bury the past

But for some reason, in Poland they still remember everything and remember about the bad things for the Poles so far, but about the bad things that pre-war Poland has done for us, it’s forbidden to remember us.

Quote: Andrzej K

Evaluation of the entire volume of documents in collective work on the basis of one stupid mistake where the author used the name of the Communist Party in the USSR in the place of the CPSU

This error shows the entire level of "evidence" on the fly.

[Andrzej k]

Take a look at even the Military Review for this series of anti-Polish articles that have recently appeared here. Look at Putin’s recent slander of Poland — although he was right about Czechoslovakia, I admit with shame.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

This error shows the entire level of "evidence" on the fly.

This is a collection of documents and the collective work of several Polish and Russian historians. One of them smoked a stupid mistake, which is very convenient for you. This is the only way to discredit everything.

Putin’s last words about Polish after Leipzig that he is an anti-Semitic pig. It's buulshit.

If Hitler managed to expel all Jews from Europe, then not only the Poles, but the Jews themselves would have to erect a monument to him - this just the Holocaust would not have taken place! . Stalin did something identical - this is called Birobidzhan in your name - Jewish Autonomous Region
Will you call him like Putin Lipsky?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Andrzej K

Friendship can only be based on respect and truth.

Modern Poland, unfortunately, does not show respect, nor does it want to put up with truth.

[Andrzej k]

Modern Poland, unfortunately, does not show respect, nor does it want to put up with truth.

So we are similar in something

And in the east, after the Victory, the USSR returned its lands occupied by Poland in the 20s, which took advantage of the Civil War in Russia, where Poland was actually carrying out a Nazi "polonization".

This is pyramidal nonsense. In the same way, I could write about the capture of part of the lands occupied by Russia since 1772! The border between the USSR and Poland was designated by the Riga Treaty of 1921 - signed and adopted by the USSR !!!!
Both countries managed to fight such borders through war. Even the shameful note of Molotov of September 17 did not mention the seizure of occupied lands.

[Andrzej k]

I am interested in one thing. Why, despite the fact that since 1992, when President Yeltsin admitted that Katyn was to blame for the USSR and gave many documents to Poland, there is still such an opposition in Russia against the recognition of this fact. It was a crime. Not the first and, unfortunately, not the last. Crimes were committed both by the USSR and England, as well as Poland, Germany and ....
This is HISTORY. Now do not look for the guilty (they have long been dead). It's not about bidding - who is worse. It is about drawing conclusions and doing everything so that this does not happen again!

It is difficult to draw conclusions when you think that you are an angel without sin. Nobody is like that!

I am concerned about the recent stream of articles on topwar.ru, which are very negative about Poland.
And yet in our history there are many things that can be raised. The heroism of Polish sailors and officers under the gunfire of 1905 - for example Jerzy Wołkowicki, Poklewski-Koziełł on an armadillo Emperor Alexander III, Admiral Nikolayevich Schensnovich and battleship commander Retwisan, commander of the famous Askold Kazimierz Kitlinsky, many others’s commander Kazimierz Kazimierz Kazimierz and Kazimierz Kazimierz Poblieb. They fought for Russia (and for Poland in some way).
On the other hand, Grand Duke Konstantin - who, unfortunately, had an undeserved fame in Poland and who did a lot of good for Poland - my son gave him the name Konstantin.
The people who wanted to collaborate with Russia - Drutsky-Lyubetsky - are examples that should be published. The heroism of ordinary ordinary Russians!

And remembering the story, take care of the present and common friendly future

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Andrzej K

Why, despite the fact that since 1992, when President Yeltsin admitted that Katyn was to blame for the USSR and gave many documents to Poland, there is still such opposition in Russia against the recognition of this fact

Actually, many in Russia consider Yeltsin a criminal, and this is precisely one of his crimes.

Quote: Andrzej K

And remembering the story, take care of the present and common friendly future

That's strange, remember the friendly future, but at the same time defend the version German Nazis and traitors to the USSR and Russia.

[Andrzej k]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

That's strange, remember the friendly future, but at the same time defend the version of German Nazis and traitors of the USSR and Russia

According to all documents, this version is correct, in my opinion. Despite this - This past, I think that we should do everything to prevent such things from happening anymore, so it’s better to develop good neighborly relations than to invade and quarrel.

[Vladimir_2U]

The conclusions of the Burdenko commission contradict these of your "documents" as well as modern evidence. The Russian leadership has long been led by the West and

Quote: Andrzej K

better develop good neighborly relations

enough at the expense of Russia.

[Andrzej k]

After the war, the USSR took over 60 km000 of Poland. (including land received at the expense of Germany). He took most of the factories and machines from all over the country, lived for 2 years at the expense of Poland, taking a lot of ships, ships, food for free, so with this “at the expense of Russia” I would not exaggerate.

[Vladimir_2U]

Now this is the stupidest lie, maybe for "historians" like Goebbels and Yakovlev, this is just right, but not here and not now!

Quote: Andrzej K

After the war, the USSR took over 60 km000 of Poland. (including land received at the expense of Germany). He took most of the factories and machines from all over the country, lived for 2 years at the expense of Poland, taking a lot of ships, ships, food for free, so with this “at the expense of Russia” I would not exaggerate.

The Soviet authorities perceived the transfer of German lands to Poland as equivalent compensation for territories torn away from Poland in 1939, although in the east, by 1947, the USSR returned to Poland Podlasie with Bialystok and Nadsanje. By 1947, Poland’s total area was still smaller than in 1939 by 77 km² (Belgium and the Netherlands combined), which was partially offset by the country's increased access to the Baltic Sea, as well as a higher level of development of the logistics infrastructure of the former German lands And in the east, after the Victory, the USSR returned their lands occupied by Poland in the 20s, which took advantage of the Civil War in Russia., on which Poland carried out actually Nazi "polonization".

Quote: Andrzej K

He lived for 50 years at the expense of Poland, taking many ships, ships, food for free

And this is not even a lie, but just stupidity! The USSR took all this for free, in your opinion? All those ships, including warships built on the orders of the USSR, were taken away for free? Licensed T-72, for example, Poland just did not sell to anyone!
Due to the huge jump in trade between Poland and the USSR by 1950 (the total value exceeded $ 1 billion), the country increased the number of jobs with an industrial component to record levels for the entire existence of independent Poland.
https://topwar.ru/80263-kak-krovavyy-stalinskiy-rezhim-podnyal-iz-ruin-ekonomiku-poslevoennoy-polshi.html

[alleksSalut4507]

there was such an ideologist, Yakovlev at Gorbachev, then it turned out to be an agent of the CIA, and even that, and a chubik. well dug up in the archives.

[Pereira]

Yes, this is vile Polish falsification.

[Thrifty]

You just need to lay out in all the media the documents that we have available, which will confirm the facts that initially Polyakhia together with the Germans rushed to divide Czechoslovakia, that Polyakhia was preparing in parallel with Nazi Germany for the war against the USSR! And with these documents we will shut up many anti-Russian throats.

[PavelM]

Quote: Thrifty

And with these documents we will shut up many anti-Russian throats.

Yes, no one will read ours, even the most lethal documents. Look at today's Western media, are they listening to our "facts and arguments"?

[Andrzej k]

If you had documents confirming Poland’s readiness to attack the USSR with Germany, Putin would certainly refer to them. You had 50 years of access to all Polish archives, you took what you wanted in 1945, and if there are documents for secret reports in RM, there are no Pilsudski-Hitler secret reports! Although I love Russia and I am a Russophile, such texts annoy me!

[alleksSalut4507]

Everything has its time. and that the documents of the special services in the USSR were very carefully collected — this is a fact. there is much more. WAIT!

[parusnik]

From the beginning, they repented that they were to blame for everything, but now they kind of repent of what they repented of. It turns out that everything was not so ...

[Gardamir]

Moscow will no longer make Poland and others anti-Russian statements.
So yes, but did the Kremlin launch this anti-Soviet rampart. So Masha Zakharov, beloved here, openly declared that Stalin was worse than Hitler.
Until the Kremlin understands that the Soviet period is one of the stages of Russian history and it must also be protected. In the end, the anti-Russian hysteria of the West arises on the basis of the Kremlin’s anti-Soviet hysteria.

[PavelM]

As the saying goes, "do not subtract, do not add." Absolutely accurate analysis.

[svp67]

The fact that Poland in the times of Pilsudski considered Russia to be its main enemy does not raise any doubts. And with Nazi Germany, they conducted very fruitful cooperation in the military sphere, but with the departure of Pilsudski, the rulers of Poland who came in general "stopped seeing the land", imagined themselves to be "God knows who", and so they paid. There are recorded words of Hitler, spoken by him in the summer of 1939, before the outbreak of the war, that if Piłsudski were alive, everything was decided differently ...

[hhhhhhh]

Where are the poles in the comments? fled.

[Andrzej k]

did not run away, but where it makes sense to talk to someone who does not accept any arguments, or someone who is simply rude, like "Pessimist22" (Igor) who writes: "One thing is clear, POLSKA KURWA".
I have my own opinion about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the assessment of the USSR’s activities in relation to Poland, but this is not a reason to consider Russia as a bad state, and certainly not Russian.
In the history of Poland, there are many shameful maps, but it was precisely the unwillingness to join the Anti-Coin Pact and the joint attack on the USSR that caused the German attack.

[Flooding]

Quote: Andrzej K

with someone who is just rude

I still haven’t read your comments, I can’t rate you as an interlocutor and commentator, but here your restraint (very unexpected for the Pole) impresses me +
As for the rudeness of the first comment, I partially agree in the sense that a mature person can always express his thoughts in a more acceptable form for the cultural community.
But, to be honest, the constant and regular irregularities in relations between Russia and Poland do not allow old wounds to heal in any way. The only bright spot is the friendship of the Soviet period. And then they already managed to spit and trample.

[Andrzej k]

Good morning Vladimir Ilyich!
I rarely write here because I can read Russian fluently, I do not write well in Russian, and I have to use the Google translator and apologize for any errors. relations between Russia and Poland are unfortunately bad. History needs to be known and remembered (even if each nation sees it in its own way), but it should not destroy the present and future. I am a historian by profession, and I am most interested in the history of Russia and the USSR (About a dozen years ago I wrote articles for professional magazines about Russian ships. I even started my doctoral dissertation on the Red Banner Baltic Fleet in 1919-1941).
I also like Russian culture and cuisine (this is probably the last because my grandfather and grandmother were born in the territory of modern Belarus, and this is the kitchen of my childhood)
Despite the painful story, I see no real reason why our countries and especially people have to live in conflict. This is silly. We are Slavs. We have no territorial disputes, Russia and Poland could benefit from good relations. Meanwhile, I sadly note that both in Poland and in Russia, the authorities specifically want us to be enemies. For what? What was important was that history did not destroy the future. We must learn from this and not get sick anymore.
The history of Russia is fascinating and worth knowing. Also on Russian sites I see interesting articles about the history of Poland (for example, articles by Yurka Pryanik on warspot.ru).

Return to Ribentrop Molotov and other pacts. It was a disaster for my country and my nation. No doubt about it. It was also a break between Germany and the USSR. non-aggression agreements with Poland in 1932 and 1934. Yes, Poland belonged to the USSR in 1921-1939 as a hostile state. Right. Because it was. But the reason for the invasion of Germany was the lack of consent to an alliance with Hitler against the USSR. Poland did not want to attack the USSR. It would be stupid. Poland wanted to live in peace, balancing between two powerful neighbors. This was impossible, and Albion's betrayal worsened the situation. Yes, I think that the stupidity of the Polish authorities after the death of Pilsudski and the unbelief of England were a source of greater misfortune than the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. And although this is unpopular in Poland, and I am sometimes called the Russian troll, I write about it in Polish forums. Which does not mean that I do not remember the USSR crime against the Poles, including the deportation in 1940 to Siberia and the murder of part of my family, just as you remember the tragic fate of people and prisoners in 1920. It is not that only one side has sins on its conscience. The point is not to weigh them - who was worse. The point is to do everything so as not to repeat them, and live in friendship.

[Flooding]

Quote: Andrzej K

Despite the painful story, I see no real reason why our countries and especially people have to live in conflict. This is silly. We are Slavs.

God grant that people who think so become more and more with time.
And so that Russians and Poles feel closer to each other.
You pleased me, honestly. Perhaps not all is lost.

[alleksSalut4507]

Dear Andrzej, of course we need to be friends, otherwise we will grind our entire joint history endlessly, even recalling Susanin. The Russian Empire retained the statehood of Poland, and the USSR -Spas and GIFTED NEW LANDS. And how you drove the Germans there from that land, this is your question and your conscience. It has always been difficult for you to Live among gaining powers. Good wishes and all the best!

[hhhhhhh]

Do you represent 100% of the Poles or only 5%?
Poland considered the enemy in the 30s of the USSR, the USSR acted against Poland accordingly.
What presentation did the Poles throw to Britain and France for abandoning their duties to defend Poland in 1939? Do you run into them in French and British forums for abandoning Poland? If France crossed the border on September 1, 1939 and there would be no 2 world and Poland would remain in place. And no pact Mr.)))
Do you know how socialism differs from capitalism? If you don’t like socialism, you probably know.)))

[Andrzej k]

Good morning hhhhhh I write hhhhhhh, because I think that you are not really Kozmin minin friend of Princes Pozharsky - Russian heroes of the 17th century.
I write in my own name - like a Pole - Andrzej Kliszewski. a not 100% Poles or only 5%
Yes, Poland belonged to the USSR in 1921-1939 as a hostile state. Right. The USSR was at that time a hostile state towards Poland! Which does not mean that Poland wanted to attack the USSR. The RM contract was concluded before September 1, 1939, so French intervention on this day will not change anything. But you are right about the unbelief of France and England. I often emphasize this in Polish forums. Polish politics is a shame and a scandal - both then and now. And faith in dubious allies, but the creation of certain enemies. Stupidity and regret.
As for socialism and capitalism, it was such a joke in Poland:
- What is the difference between capitalism and socialism? The first is the exploitation of one person over another. The second is quite the opposite :-)))) (read the exploitation of the second person on the first ;-).

[hhhhhhh]

An agreement between Poland and the FR with the World Bank was concluded before the pact Mr. After the pact, all other contracts are automatically canceled?
So France and the UK rightfully did not help Poland. Stalin is to blame.)))

Your option. Stalin had to do what? Poland refused to help the USSR. The Polish army fled to Romania. Russia did not have the right to return her? Captured by Poland in the 20th. Will you apologize for the genocide of prisoners of war in the 20s?

Hitler's plan for Poland was drawn up long before the MR pact.
So you don’t know why youth in the USA want socialism? You mask your ignorance of the topic of socialism-capitalism with stupid jokes.

[Andrzej k]

France and Great Britain are to blame for this, despite the alliance's obligations, they did not help the real Poland. Ba - false guarantees of England involved Poland in the war with Germany in advance!
Stalin is guilty of the fact that, despite the non-aggression agreements of 1932, he agreed with Hitler on the division of Poland. Article 3 of the non-aggression agreement of 1932:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Soviet-Polish_Non-aggression_pact_1932.pdf?uselang=ru

The Polish army (this!) Escaped to Romania after September 17, 1939 !!!
The rest fought until October 5

Quote: hhhhhhh

Russia did not have the right to return her?

Which Russia What is yours? !!!!! The provisions of the Riga Peace and the recognition of the borders of 1921 were valid between the USSR and Poland !!!

Will you apologize for the genocide of prisoners of war in the 20s?

I like that! I am ashamed of how some Poles treated prisoners of war during the 1920 war. Many of them were shot - a fact - I can only apologize and ask for forgiveness like a Pole! - but not in the camps after the war, did not shoot at the back of the head.


Socialism and criminal communism of the USSR are not the same thing !!!

[hhhhhhh]

Do you recognize the Riga Treaty, but the Helsen Treaty of 1972?
Under the Riga Agreement, Poland does not own a third of Poland, Danzig and other other.
Here we read here we do not read?
You can still recall on the basis of what contract Poland escaped from Russia? In violation of which contract.
They didn’t shoot at the back of the head, but starved to death. Including the white detachment of enemies of the Bolsheviks. In the USSR, they shot according to the verdict.
Remind me who attacked the USSR in 1919, which resulted in the Riga Treaty?

If capitalism is so good, why did the Poles run away from Poland to work, and not work at home?

[Andrzej k]

The Riga Treaty covered only the borders between Poland and the RSFSR and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Where is Danzig and other?
Helsen Treaty of 1972? Poland did not sign and was not a member!

They didn’t shoot at the back of the head, but starved to death. Including the white detachment of enemies of the Bolsheviks. In the USSR, they shot according to the verdict.

Admittedly, many Soviet prisoners of war died as a result of starvation and disease, this was not the deliberate action of the Polish authorities, but the result of poverty at that time. Tell us how you were captured by Polish prisoners of war in 1920 - do you think they were well fed and no one died of hunger?

Katyn is a crime and criminal punishment of a criminal state that was in the USSR at that time!

Remind me who attacked the USSR in 1919, which resulted in the Riga Treaty?

The war began on February 14, 1919, a clash near the city of Bridges near Szczucin, where German troops advanced further than the retreating German units, stopped further marching west as part of the “Cel Wisla” operation of the units of the Western Red Army front, but namely the Bolshevik forces attacked Vilnius 4 January 1919 should be seen as the actual beginning of the Polish-Bolshevik war

[hhhhhhh]

Are you telling the version of Gebels about Katyn or Gorbachev? There was no real investigation. Several Poles who were "shot" in Katyn survived to old age, you yourself know the rest of the shoals.
Versions of Goebels and the traitor Gorbachev do not roll. Or do you believe Putin?
The USSR and Stalin made it possible for the Poles to start life from scratch after liberation and did not recall Poland, but restored it. You started rummaging through dirty Polish underwear, and there you can dig up and remember a lot of things. Russia will have a more correct paper for any of your paper.
1. Why was Poland not indignant in 1940, but only after 1991? Civilized humanity has not even tweeted about this. For the Finns, the USSR was expelled from the League of Nations, for Poland there.
2. Why is Helsinki 1972 not your final paper? Don't you need a third of Poland?
3. "This was not an intentional action by the Polish authorities" - are there any documents confirming this?
Do you like socialism in 8 hours a working day with a vacation? Or for maternity leave? Or free quality education?
How will Poland repay your capitalist happiness? You still have to Stalin, or rather, the government in exile the Polish should.)))

[PavelM]

Moscow will no longer let Warsaw and other "partners" down their anti-Russian historical statements, equating Hitler with Stalin and Nazi Germany with the USSR.

First of all, I will correct the author:
they do not equate "Hitler with Stalin" but Stalin with Hitler!
I think there is a difference.

Further, the essence of the article:
But you don’t find that not the Poles, but the top of the CPSU / USSR in the person of Khrushchev and Co., began to equate Stalin with Hitler, and Gorbachev, Yeltsin and, horror, Putin personally actively continued ?! And if Khrushchev and Yeltsin have long been in heaven, and Gorbachev, after the collapse of the country entrusted to him, on an honorary pension and for some reason, unlike the dead Stalin, is outside of official criticism, then Putin is on the spot and actively continues to boldly rot the dead Stalin and the USSR! And, notice, not the destroyer of the Gorbachev country, but its builder -
Stalin! Isn't it strange?
Then, let me ask you, what claims does Putin have towards Poland and the conventional West? Oh yes, "our" claims to Stalin are not at all for that, but for something completely different !?
Do you think this is a ride? Do not even hope! In other words, we ourselves put a finger in their mouth and now they are actively nibbling our hand (Russia itself). And here no archives will help us, nobody will read them.
The blind, of course, will not see that the scale of "our" claims to Stalin and the claims of the West is not commensurate! It is not enough for them to destroy Stalin, they are trying to multiply the USSR / Russia by zero - this is their goal.
Will we continue to help them?
Every word within Russia against Stalin is perceived by the West as support by Russia itself of their Western anti-Russian position!
Someone in power should begin to understand that denigrating Stalin and "Stalinism" conventional "we", earlier, opened the way to the collapse of the USSR, and now, to the revival of Bandera and, in general, fascism?
The West's equating Stalin with Hitler is a direct consequence of the flourishing anti-Stalinism in modern Russia, spared by Putin himself. Alas, these are links in the same chain, a direct cause-and-effect relationship. I will say more, if we do not "correct mistakes", we will inevitably lose to the West. And when the USSR / Russia is the fiend of Hell, then this is already a direct road to the Third World War.
So, no more, but no less.
So, Putin should have started not from Poland, but from himself!

[Shteffan]

I support and subscribe to your every word. I myself noticed for a long time that Putin is completely uncritical of Putin. Is it interesting when the humpbacked horses move, will they make a monument to him? Or a prospect by name.

[Aviator_]

that this is a new Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which supposedly led in due time to the partition of Poland.

There is a saying - if you are unfairly accused of what you did not do - come back and do it, if they so want. Well, I want the Poles of the fourth partition of Poland - so why bother?

[smaug78]

Quote: Thrifty

that Polyahiya was preparing in parallel with Nazi Germany for the war against the USSR! And with these documents we will shut up many anti-Russian throats.

Spread, it will be interesting to read ...

[Thrifty]

Access to the archives for your joy, I do not have! And then I honestly laid out the whole truth, all the documents, about that time, so that everyone would know how and what exactly was then! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[smaug78]

Quote: Thrifty

Access to the archives for your joy, I do not have! And then I honestly laid out the whole truth, all the documents, about that time, so that everyone would know how and what exactly was then! !!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought so - an air shaker)))

[Thrifty]

Judge by yourself, or is there simply no one to powder your brains? ??

[ccsr]

Quote: Thrifty

And then I honestly laid out the whole truth, all the documents, about that time, so that everyone would know how and what exactly was then!

Are you sure that even if they publish all the documents, and some of them, by the way, have been destroyed, then an inexperienced reader, not having basic and professional knowledge, can make such a story in his head that then they will grab their heads, those who allowed everyone documents from the archive. In order not to be unfounded, I will give an example of how it happens in real life, when in one of the VO branches a certain anonymous "Evgeny" undertook to evaluate the actions of Soviet military intelligence on the analysis of one intelligence report No. 5 dated June 15, 1941 and allegedly "studied tens of thousands of German documents ". Everything would be fine, but this would-be researcher made a stunning conclusion that the MAIN reason for the defeat in the first weeks of the war was erroneous intelligence materials:

Quote: AsmyppoL

For me it is important that for decision-making in the last peace week, the leadership of the country and the spacecraft was guided by unreliable RM! This is important to me! Incorrect decisions related to incorrect knowledge about the situation on the border and in the area of ​​responsibility of the border districts caused the death of gigantic human and material resources during the first two days of the war.

https://topwar.ru/166370-1941-razvedka-o-shtabah-nemeckih-armij-i-tankovyh-grupp.html#comment-id-10001913
So I think the desire to give all historical documents to any person will ultimately lead to even more serious consequences for us and for our history.

[Vadim T.]

At one time, the great Russian poet Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin in his novel "Eugene Onegin" said:
"My uncle, the most honest rules
When not a joke fell ill,
HE RESPECTED YOURSELF
And I could not have imagined it better ... "
This is what I mean. The persecution of our Soviet past will not end until we ourselves rethink it and begin to truly respect it. We are not only Russians, but also residents of the former Soviet republics, who, by the will of fate, found ourselves on opposite sides of the borders. We are not only ordinary citizens, but also the entire power vertical. When we have a respectful attitude towards our historical past (not to be confused with jingoistic patriotism and other idiocy), without rose-colored glasses, but also without chernukha, then there will be neither Kolya-s-Urengoy, nor the fascist bureaucrats from Rossosh, allowing the descendants of the Nazis erect monuments to the murderers and executioners of Soviet citizens. It is then that Western fakecomets will reduce their ardor, because all of their so-called. "activity" is aimed at processing our brains (maybe they will believe). I agree, this is a very difficult and long journey. But it must be passed if we want to be respected. For without the past there is no present and there will be no future. Something like this.

[rus-5819]

HE RESPECTED YOURSELF

It means dead !!! Bad quote by Pushkin

[gsev]

Perhaps nothing like the secret articles of the Molotov Ribbentrop protocols can be found. Currently, neither the United States, nor Poland, nor Germany, where this information may be stored, are interested in conducting historical research. In addition, the partition of Czechoslovakia occurred spontaneously. And caused friction between Poland, Hungary and Germany. According to the plans of the Abwehr, the Ukrainian Piedmont-bridgehead should be formed on the fragments of Czechoslovakia for the capture of Ukraine by Germany. However, Ukrainian nationalists took power in Transcarpathia and staged pogroms against non-Ukrainians, especially Poles. This gave Hungary a reason to send troops to Transcarpathia. The Honved quickly interrupted the Ukrainian Abwehr militants, and the leadership outweighed. The Poles did not have time to capture as much as they wanted. In addition, Hitler sacrificed both Ukrainian Abwehr agents and possibly Poland’s ambitions to start an alliance with Hungary on the Black Sea. Germany now has a more compliant ally, Hungary, through whose territory German troops could invade Ukraine.

[Eug]

I wonder how Moscow’s views will change if the Poles start buying gas from Gazprom ...

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

And they sho, now extract from fart well?

[zenion]

If this is the case, then Stalin was not the first to be attacked by the Poles, but by Russian President Putin. He first spat in the well and the place where he was born.

[Pereira]

The first - Khrushchev, the second - demshiza. Putin is the third.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Only not "Novopisudskaya" but "neo-Hitler". Thus, the construction in Ukraine of the agent Abwehr Bender, who was sentenced to death in pre-war Poland, and the SS officer Shukhevych, who walked around the Volyn region, to the status of heroes, does not in any way affect the position of Poland. For loyalty to Hitler's ideology levels the differences between the new Polish-Ukrainian elites on the extermination of Polish and Ukrainian plebeians.

[Operator]

The secret protocol was attached to the British-Polish mutual assistance pact of August 25, 1939 - the protocol specified the European power, in the event of hostilities with which the pact entered into force - namely Germany
https://document.wikireading.ru/25917

Those. Britain refused to enter the war on the side of Poland in the event of a conflict between the latter and the USSR

[Operator]

The Hitler-Pilsudski Pact of January 26, 1934 also included a secret protocol, paragraph 4 of which read:

"The high contracting parties undertake to unite their military, economic and financial forces to repel any unprovoked attack and to provide support in the event that one of the parties is attacked."

Which unequivocally testifies to the creation of the military alliance of Germany and Poland, which operated until Germany's territorial claims on Poland were advanced in 1939.

German territorial claims consisted in the transfer by Poland of the city of Gdansk / Danzig to create land connections between the main territory of Germany and East Prussia. In return, Poland requested Germany’s consent for Lithuania’s accession to gain access to the sea through the port of Memel / Klaipeda. In connection with the refusal of Germany, Poland crossed over to Britain and France.

[Operator]

Quote: Andrzej K

Polish officers

Polish occupiers and punishers.

[hhhhhhh]

The jokes are over.))) Now the Poles are forbidden to think differently than the Soviet Union attacked Poland.

[Operator]

Quote: Andrzej K

If Hitler managed to expel all Jews from Europe, then not only the Poles, but the Jews themselves would have to erect a monument to him - it would simply not have happened!

Yes, you, my friend, are no better than the Polish ambassador, who has worked in the capital of the Third Reich - exactly correspond to the definition of Vladimir Putin.

Type: the active participation of Poles in the segregation of Jews until 1939, the extermination of Jews from September 1939 and the deportation of Jews after May 1945 - no, I heard nothing

[Pereira]

Quote: Andrzej K

In your opinion, who killed the Polish officers in Katyn? Martians? The documents of the Politburo are known, even the names of the executioners of the NKVD. Is this falsification in your opinion?

Yes, this is vile Polish falsification.