Historian: Decembrist uprising in 1825 is as if today was the HSE uprising

It must be noted that interest in stories today in our country is quite high. The increase in this interest is also evidenced by cinema. Television films and cinema rental films show high ratings in Russia.

One of the topics for discussion in the coming year is the historical background of the uprising, which in our historiography is known as the Decembrist uprising. Considerable attention was paid to this event in Soviet history textbooks, but to a greater extent - precisely as an event, but no more. What exactly the rebellious nobles were going to carry to the peasantry was not particularly accepted to mention, much less analyze.

The historian Fyodor Lisitsyn on the Day TV channel discusses the film “Union of Salvation” that has been released in the country, about the Decembrists themselves, as well as about the myths that the event almost 200 years ago managed to grow.

An interesting thought from Fedor Lisitsyn:

The Decembrist uprising is as if the HSE (Higher School of Economics) organized the uprising today. Just imagine: HSE students will gather, take weapon and they will go to storm the Kremlin ...

The historian notes that the rebels in the XNUMXth century had extremely poor ideas about the life of peasants in the Russian Empire, and therefore it is hardly worth considering an uprising “in favor” of serf peasants with the purpose of giving them freedom.

Comments

[svp67]

Historian: Decembrist uprising in 1825 is as if today was the HSE uprising

And this would exactly correspond to the saying that history once passes as a tragedy, the second time as a farce. The Decembrists, in their overwhelming number were officers, military officers, and at the HSE they are "liberals" who will never go to bullets and shrapnel more easily for them to say ...

и

[mark1]

Quote: svp67

The Decembrists, in their overwhelming number were officers, military officers, and at the HSE they are "liberals" who will never go to bullets and shrapnel more easily for them to say ...

And in the first and second cases - "... they are terribly far from the people ..."

[svp67]

Quote: mark1

And in the first and second cases - "... they are terribly far from the people ..."

But the first ones at least woke someone there, and under the speeches of the second, I just want to sleep

[mark1]

Quote: svp67

and under the speech of the second, I just want to sleep

Well, why is the lid on the bowler hat already bouncing for some. (This is at the expense of "the mind of the indignant ...)

[svp67]

Quote: mark1

Well, why is the lid on the bowler already jumping for some.

This is not a cover, this is snoring

[mark1]

Quote: svp67

it's snoring

Snoring on whistle

[svp67]

Quote: mark1

Snoring on whistle

Well, apparently you often attend such meetings, so I believe you know better

[mark1]

Quote: svp67

You know better

Yes, you are right, I’ve seen all types for a long time.

[naidas]

Quote: svp67

under the speech of the second, I just want to sleep

You want it, they put you to sleep, and some who are in the know make good money

[Finches]

Interest in history is high, but the level of knowledge is low! Nobody wants to dribble in the archives - it's boring, boring and does not bring any dividends! The Internet is our everything! I looked at the film - which is about the Decembrists - the Union of Salvation! It can be seen that the director tried and the actors even tried, but for some reason, inside, as if according to Stanislavsky, I do not believe it! But the old movie Star of captivating happiness, more trust! Tolley acting fails, or something historical is missing?

[Baloo]

Quote: Finches

Interest in history is high, but the level of knowledge is low!

Happy New Year, Evgeny Viktorovich! You are absolutely right. I read textbooks for high school, I want to comment exclusively in obscene colors. The Englishwoman also shamed in 1825, as on the eve of the day of the FSB.

[Deniska999]

Given the disgusting level of organization of the uprising, it is ridiculous to suspect the role of England.

[Baloo]

Quote: Deniska999

Given the disgusting level of organization of the uprising, it is ridiculous to suspect the role of England.

Read ...

[svp67]

Quote: Deniska999

Given the disgusting level of organization of the uprising, it is ridiculous to suspect the role of England.

Kaka England, if you blame anyone from overseas, then this France, with its Napoleon, set a clear example ...

[Finches]

An example was set by the French, that's for sure, but rather earlier than Napoleon! In our country, this event is firmly linked to the phrase - Bastille Day is empty!

[svp67]

Quote: Finches

Bastille Day is empty!

Well, this is somewhat different ...

[Finches]

Happy Holidays!

[svp67]

Quote: Finches

Happy Holidays!

Thanks and mutually

[Andrey VOV]

Most of the officers, Decembrists spoke Russian with an accent !!!! French knew better !!!!

[Finches]

Happy New Year, Baloo! There is, unfortunately, the truth in your words about modern textbooks!

[svp67]

Quote: Finches

Tolley acting fails, or something historical is missing?

Whether it’s already old and wise has become ...

[Moore]

Quote: Finches

But the old movie Star of captivating happiness, more trust!

What is more credibility? In the game of actors? It could be. As for the content, I believe that the main characters were made knights without fear and reproach so that they could at least somehow correspond to their wives. After all, the interrogation protocols remained, on which Trubetskoy was on his knees in front of Nikolai, kissed his hands and prayed for pardon, Ryleyev, who handed over everything, including Southern Society, Pestel finally ...

[Finches]

And I happened to see the interrogations of the Decembrists in the archive! Now they are digitized and posted on the Internet ...

[Astra wild]

Regarding Trubetskoy, I read how he was described by the philosopher Trubetskoy (the grand-nephew of the Decembrist) "three times a traitor: the first time he betrayed the sovereign and the oath, the second time betrayed his friends, and the third time he betrayed his ideals"

[Astra wild]

“Ryleev, who passed everything,” I read that Pestel tried to blame everyone and Yakushkin said: “They hanged 5 pure chance. This is not Pestel’s fault: he did everything possible for this”

[Astra wild]

Zablitsev, "I would venture to suggest" that there are several reasons: 1) such MASTERS as: Motyl, Batalov, Kostalevsky or Ira Kupchenko do not always happen; 2) for many of us this film was like a revelation, few of us knew this topic well , and therefore watched the film in one breath. Naturally, we expected a repetition of the sensation from the new film, but there is no repetition. We have matured and some of us know more about this topic than the writers and actors. And one reason: "Zvezda" is a film of our youth, and today's young people may like the film, and as they mature, they will compare new ones with it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but most likely it is

[Finches]

The psychological aspect has not been canceled, but Levanov as a sovereign was many times more convincing than an actor in a modern setting!

[Astra wild]

Levanov really skillfully played

[maidan.izrailovich]

Astra wild (Astra wild)
Levanov really skillfully played

The actor is really great.
Only not LеVanov, and LиVanov.

Vasily Borisovich Livanov (born July 19, 1935, Moscow, USSR) - Soviet and Russian film actor, film and animation director, screenwriter, writer. People's Artist of the RSFSR (1988).
He was best known for creating a screen image of Sherlock Holmes in a series of television films directed by Igor Maslennikov based on the works of Arthur Conan Doyle, for which he was admitted to the Order of the British Empire in 2006

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: svp67

combat officers

that does not cancel the fact of treason

[kjhg]

Quote: Barmaleyka

Quote: svp67
combat officers

that does not cancel the fact of treason

But what if the country's leaders betrayed the people and their interests, for which they are responsible? Are acting officers, soldiers, teachers, and workers then entitled to insurrection? By the way, the right to rebellion is recognized by the UN as the fundamental right of a people oppressed by its rulers. So your words about treason, in relation to such events - are bullshit, designed for slaves.

[svp67]

Quote: kjhg

so what do you say about treason, in relation to such events - bullshit, designed for slaves.

Your speech is designed for "slaves", or rather, for people to feel themselves as such.
If the military goes to revolt, it’s for sure a coup. And to compare those military with the current is not worth it. That rebellion was one part of the NOBILITY, against another part.

[kjhg]

Quote: svp67

Your speech is designed for "slaves", or rather, for people to feel themselves as such.

Similarly, I can say about your words. We agree that everyone will remain in their own opinion.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: svp67

If the military goes to revolt, it’s for sure a coup.

I agree.
But the fact of the matter is that the Decembrists spoke out when the legitimacy of the authorities, including the oath, were in doubt. A certain part of the blame for the revolt lies with them, but most of this blame must be placed on the Romanov family, which "darkened" the succession to the throne, as well as on the results of the reign of Alexander, who began with Austerlitz and ended with the Decembrist Uprising.
One Tilsit world what it was worth.
If we talk about ignorance of history, then this is a key point. From Alexander made the icon of the winner. And this was not true. And the guard knew this well.
I draw your attention to the fact that this is the last attempt of the guard (already together with other military men) to influence the fate of the country. Prior to this, between Peter the Great and Catherine the Great, similar methods of solving state problems were, one might say, the norm.
And it’s even disgusting to talk about the accession of Alexander himself. Prior to this, the sons of the crowned fathers did not kill ...
So there is no reason to make the Decembrists "fiends of hell."
Yes, and their standing, which is considered by many. like indecision, it is caused by the desire to solve the problem peacefully.
Their rebellion was forever ahead of the state of public thought in Russia.
THEY HAVE FOUND THE FIRST RUSSIAN DEMONSTRATION.
And here, not realizing what was going on in the heads of ordinary people, "they were terribly far from the people."

Quote: svp67

And to compare those military with the current is not worth it. That rebellion was one part of the NOBILITY, against another part.

And I agree with that.
But the fact of the matter is that at that time it could not be otherwise.
But the thing is that the Decembrists belonged to that part of the nobility that went through the Patriotic War ... I saw real life in other countries, understood the importance of the state system, respected the common people ...

But the fact that the reigning surname did not want to recognize the obvious, and retained autocracy for almost a century, this is the main state crime.
The result of the reign of the Romanovs is obvious. The blame for this result lies precisely with the reigning Romanovs.
So I think that if the Decembrists won, Russia would not be worse. Maybe the monarchy lasted longer ... and we would live in the Russian Empire now ...

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey S.

and also on the results of the reign of Alexander, who began with Austerlitz and ended with the Decembrist Uprising.

Let me disagree. The reign of Alexander began, this is the KILLING of his father, at that time the Russian Emperor, Paul 1.
I think that more undermined the foundations of the autocracy

Quote: Sergey S.

And it’s even disgusting to talk about the accession of Alexander himself. Prior to this, the sons of the crowned fathers did not kill ...

I agree.

Quote: Sergey S.

So there is no reason to make the Decembrists "fiends of hell."

I agree, in terms of "Northern Society", but with "South ....". One planning for the introduction of a dictatorship, for at least 5 years, and there may be more, the organization of a special corps to impose this dictatorship, etc., etc.

Quote: Sergey S.

And here, not realizing what is happening in the heads of ordinary people,

Excuse me, did they need it? They thought everyone knew best.

Quote: Sergey S.

But the fact of the matter is that at that time it could not be otherwise.

Yes it could, it could ... Pugachevsky riot, as an example

Quote: Sergey S.

But the thing is that the Decembrists belonged to that part of the nobility that went through the Patriotic War ...

Rather, "Foreign campaign", but there is a counter question, but were there other officers on the opposing side? And you are aware that officers from the "Southern Society" were on the side of the pro-government troops, or rather in their ranks, there were officers from the "Southern Society", but not having the command of "that" leadership, they carried out, conscientiously executed the orders of "this" and crushed the uprising.

Quote: Sergey S.

So I think that if the Decembrists won, Russia would not be worse.

Here I disagree. I am 100% sure that in this case we would have started a civil war like the English "White and Red Roses", only even cooler, since there would have been THREE "roses", "Nikolaevtsy", "Northerners" and "Yuzhans"

Quote: Sergey S.

Maybe the monarchy lasted longer ... and we would live in the Russian Empire now ...

Well, yes, on some part of it, since Poland and Finland would immediately start their wars for independence and most likely would have achieved their goal.

[Sergey S.]

Here I disagree. I am 100% sure that in this case we would have started a civil war like the English "White and Red Roses", only even cooler, since there would have been THREE "roses", "Nikolaevtsy", "Northerners" and "Yuzhans"

Is the Civil War a Pseudo-Nikolai, Pseudo-Constantine or Pseudo-Alexander?
I suppose that one of the Romanovs could no longer inspire a popular uprising.
Again, I suppose Trubetskoy was elected dictator not for personal dignity, but because the prince.

But I am not a supporter of alternative historians. and to argue in context if ... I have no sense.
My thought was that the Decembrists had certain plans, and if they had won, then after the armed method of accession in accordance with the logic of the historical process, they would have realized them. And the implementation of even a bad directional plan of action is better than shy from side to side and wandering in the clouds.
It was the inadequate perception of reality by Nicholas that led to the defeat in the Crimean War.

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey S.

It was the inadequate perception of reality by Nicholas that led to the defeat in the Crimean War.

You can say so, or you can say inertness of mind, refuse to lay the railway telegraph line to the Crimea, saying that Russia does not need it. Refusal to rearm the army with rifled weapons. Full confidence that Russia decides everything

[Sergey S.]

All these are links of one chain.

[carstorm 11]

teachers and workers are not bound by oath to the state, unlike officers. people like that all the time do not want to remember about it.

[anykin]

Quote: carstorm 11

teachers and workers are not bound by oath to the state

Female teachers and workers.

[carstorm 11]

you will not believe it, but not all male people take the oath)

[anykin]

Workers, as a rule, accepted. Well, the oaths did not stop the officers of the traitors.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

I did not want to remember, but Vlasov in the last war (like thousands of others), the oath also did not stop ...

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: kjhg

But what if the country's leaders betrayed the people and their interests

Alexander the second died, Nicholas the first could not betray the interests of RI

Quote: kjhg

So your words about treason, in relation to such events - are bullshit, designed for slaves.

before writing, I describe a specific situation, and you attract another by the ears

[Astra wild]

Barmaleyka, Vas has a small error in the chronology: the predecessor of Nicholas 1 was Alexander 1

[Barmaleyka]

agree mistaken a2 son n1

[Astra wild]

Here you are right

[Moore]

Quote: kjhg

But what if the country's leaders betrayed the people and their interests, for which they are responsible?

And what interests were betrayed by who (?) - Alexander, Konstantin, Nikolai Pavlovich? And who were the people in this nobleman’s quarrel asking at all? Watch the video - an interesting version. The uprising was stirred up by those for whom, in no circumstances, the place of the throne simply did not shine - despite the nobility and wealth of some.

[maidan.izrailovich]

- bullshit,

Bullshit is all that you have spoken.
The mention of the UN smiled particularly.

[svp67]

Quote: Barmaleyka

that does not cancel the fact of treason

Stop. What treason? They did not swear to Nikolai.

[Serg65]

Quote: svp67

They did not swear to Nikolai.

The idea of ​​treason among the Decembrists arose long before Nikolai, Nikolai was just an excuse! The most interesting thing is that most of the conspirators were in the service of the Russian-American company and many of them were convicted of embezzlement ...

[Astra wild]

Honestly, I don’t remember: who else but Ryleev was in the Russian-American company

[Moore]

Quote: svp67

What treason?

The planned assassination of the current emperor Alexander I, for example.

[naidas]

Quote: svp67

Stop. What treason? They did not swear to Nikolai.

But there was this:

Quote: kjhg

By the way, the right to rebellion is recognized by the UN,

[New Year day]

Quote: Barmaleyka

that does not cancel the fact of treason

I wonder how you rate this fact?
For several years, “reformers” under the leadership of Serdyukov, as part of the reforms carried out in the Armed Forces since 2008, have virtually destroyed the system of military universities inherited from the Soviet army (166 military universities graduating annually from about 60 thousand people). The available 65 higher military educational institutions Serdyukov and Pankov stung up to 3 educational and research centers, 11 academies and 3 military universities with 25 branches.
Deputy Minister of Defense, State Secretary of the Ministry of Defense Nikolai Pankov, in order to please Serdyukov, who “minimized” army expenditures, and released the territories (hundreds of thousands of hectares) and buildings for sale and rent. Pankov retained his post and now proudly reports on the revival of what he destroyed

[Serg65]

Quote: Silvestr

166 military universities, graduating annually about 60 thousand people

Sylvester, you're like a doctor ... that is, you know how to count? With an army of 1 million 900 thousand - 60 thousand young lieutenants every year, is this just the time .... or an oversupply?

[New Year day]

Quote: Serg65

is it just right .... or an oversupply?

why then is not enough?
The shortage of military pilots in the Russian Aerospace Forces in 2016 amounted to 1,3 thousand people, the shortage of personnel will be closed in 2018, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said in his speech in the State Duma.

[maidan.izrailovich]

Shortage of military pilots in the Russian Aerospace Forces in 2016 amounted to 1,3 thousand people...

You do not confuse the shortage of pilots specifically and the shortage of VKS personnel. There, except for pilots, it is full of specialists of a different profile.

[Terenin]

Quote: Serg65

Quote: Silvestr

166 military universities, graduating annually about 60 thousand people

Sylvester, you're like a doctor ... that is, you know how to count? With an army of 1 million 900 thousand - 60 thousand young lieutenants every year, is this just the time .... or an oversupply?

Sergey, does it make sense to oppose? Sylvester, on any topic, in any historical period, immediately includes: "Oh, and you (we), in Russia, blacks are lynched and hanged!"

[New Year day]

Quote: Terenin

on any topic

I realized that you can’t really object to Shoigu, and therefore

Quote: Terenin

blacks are lynched and hanged! "

[Terenin]

Quote: Silvestr

Quote: Terenin

on any topic

I realized that you can’t really object to Shoigu, and therefore

Quote: Terenin

blacks are lynched and hanged! "

Well, here it is, your direction, 1825, St. Petersburg - modern pilots - Shoigu - State Duma, another little step ... and here it is, the culprit ... President Putin!
Bored, girls ...

[Astra wild]

So women are bored, but men are not

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Silvestr

I wonder how you rate this fact?
For several years, “reformers” under the leadership of Serdyukov in the framework of the reform carried out in the Armed Forces since 2008

Forgive me, I wrote about the Decembrists and to draw events 19 to the events of the 21st century I have no desire

[Karen]

Quote: svp67

Decembrists, in their overwhelming number were officers, military officers, and at the HSE they are "liberals"

The goals of the Decembrists were to mobilize all the Jews of the Republic of Ingushetia and to march on the Holy Land ... Does it resemble anything from the analogy of the 20th century? And not just that, just a few years after the Senate attempted coup, Mr. Ermolov in his house in conversation with Pushkin designated Paskevich, Count Erivansky, as Count Erichonsky ...

[Catfish]

Did Russian noble officers rebel in order to mobilize All-Russian Jewry? Karen, today is not the First of April, but the Sixth of January, you have a little messed up the calendar.

[Karen]

Konstantin, learn the materiel ... This will always come in handy ...

[Catfish]

Karen, your unsubscription looks like an ordinary bazaar, more specifically, if possible, of course.

[Karen]

Konstantin, all this needs to be studied in bulk ... I study, I make a record in my memory ... I do not document ... Who really needs to know this, will take an interest on their own ... Good luck in discoveries!

[naidas]

Well, the cat got it, with the girls it is necessary in a different way, learning the materiel and it is necessary to study it voluminously ... To study, make notes in memory ... Do not document ... ... Good luck in discoveries!

[Catfish]

To be honest, I didn't quite understand the meaning of your comment. I have no more questions for Karen, everything is clear. What did you mean? If only about girls, then I completely agree with you. Especially about "do not document".

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Not to document - this is if there is a wife, and if free - why not? In old age, you can sit down in an armchair and re-read the old one, it will be nice to remember! ... And with wives, who documents this - it’s a ready suicide!

[polar fox]

Quote: Sea Cat

Russian noble officers revolted

OGA ... AT THIS "RUSSIAN OFFICERS" did not know Russian ...

[Catfish]

Do you know, have you personally met?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: svp67

Decembrists, in their overwhelming number were officers, military officers, and at the Higher School of Economics they are "liberals" who, under bullets and shrapnel, will never go easier for them to say.

For whatever ideas the Decembrists were, they came out openly, as befits a Russian officer, but the cowardly "liberals" will not come out openly, they will act on the sly.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: tihonmarine

For whatever ideas the Decembrists were, but they came out openly, as befits a Russian officer

that is, a Russian officer should be betrayed? !!
abruptly

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Barmaleyka

that is, a Russian officer should be betrayed? !!

And why are you surprised?

[Astra wild]

I agree and plus

[g1v2]

First of all, they were representatives of the upper world, considering their people and their subordinates cattle. The overwhelming number of soldiers the Decembrists took to the square stupidly lying. They told the soldiers that they were coming out to defend the legitimate heir Constantine, whom his brother Nikolai wanted to overthrow. They lied to their soldiers and set them up under bullets and buckshot. When the combat general Miloradovich approached and began to say that he had seen the abdication, he was stupidly killed until the soldiers understood the truth. Why should soldiers know that they were bred like cattle for the sake of other people's ambitions?
As a result, Nicholas 1 with buckshot dared from the square noble ambitions and silly people who believed liars. And for 30 years, peace has come in the country.
The Decembrists absolutely did not give a damn about peasants, soldiers and other plebeians. They wanted the same thing that the elite of all countries want - a republic on the Roman model. Where "the best people" rule, and the central government is a weak consul who is completely controlled by the patricians. Well, and for the plebeians - an imitation of democracy in the form of tribunes of the people.

[ma-monthly]

unless in court battles hardened.

[saigon]

I would like to note that there were very few combat officers among the Decembrists, but as a result, as a result of the investigation, many people lied to those who were not messed up.

[Astra wild]

Saigon, I just looked in Vika: 1 Pestel had a golden weapon "for bravery" 2, Volkonsky - the order of St. George and a sword "for bravery" 3) Muravyov-Apostle - "for bravery", 4 Yakubovich - the order of St. Vladimir. 5 ) Lunin took part in all the campaigns against Napoleon. 6) Yakushkin - St. George's Cross. 7 Fonvizin "for courage. Perhaps there is still, but I just do not remember their names

[7,62x54]

It must be noted that the Kremlin diaspora is sleeping and sees serfdom, kneeling slaves, estates, balls, champagne by the river. But still end with a merchant basement.

[Amateur]

But still end with a merchant basement.

If we mean the basement of the House of Ipatiev, then N, N, Ipatiev was a hereditary civil engineer, retired staff captain. Eh EGE-EGE them. Mrs. Prostakova.

[knn54]

The Decembrists were not happy with Nicholas 1, but Putin was happy with the HSE.
And if something happens, then it is necessary to hang not five, but much more. For ordinary Decembrists were drawn into a conspiracy by deception, but at the HSE there are no "naive romantics".

[Yang yangov]

comparing military officers with "these" types "from the HSE is not ethical.
- these "guardians" for the people's well-being should be hung on the wall in the offices, the commandment

[Rostislav Bely]

It seems that they said that Nicholas 1 called it a riot of 100 ensigns (career growth did not shine for all conspirators - that’s the demons were raging ... S.G. Nechaev in order to strengthen his power in the revolutionary terrorist circle.)

[16329]

Not quite so, participation in the uprising of immigrants from such families as the Volkonsky and Trubetskoys, whose clans are ancient and date back to Rurik and Gediminas, indicate that the Russian aristocracy could not take primacy of the Romanov clan even in the 19th century
Under these conditions, the attempt of the Romanovs to carry out the process of transfer of power after the official death of Alexander Pavlovich on the basis of the manifesto of 1823 automatically led to the lack of a clear definition of the time of accession to the throne of Nikolai Pavlovich
It should be noted the strange behavior of Konstantin Pavlovich, who preferred to sit out in Warsaw and avoid official renunciation.
One of the consequences of the Decembrist uprising was the distrust of Nikolai Pavlovich to the Russian aristocracy, which led to German domination in the Russian Army and the state machine

[Rostislav Bely]

Today I looked at the "Union of Salvation" - all these "Volkonsko-Trubetskoy" in the service of the Moscow sovereigns - the Gediminovichs rose in general during the Polonization of Russia under the Romanovs (the Polish-Lithuanian yoke under the Romanovs) - so a non-hamlet or a polychina is like horseradish is not sweeter than a radish - all of the dark, uncouth peoples under the rule of Catholics ... In general, it is not worth mentioning the red (black) -Chernigov ones, they were allowed to rise at Grozny when they squeezed Chernigov from the Lithuanians and the Poles (they were Moscow's run-down enemies - the Nestorians were on the side of Yaroslav Vsevolodovich from the Horde in civil strife, when the Chernigov and Galich were ousted)

[16329]

Do not tell me, the Germans in large numbers on key posts is very dangerous
They are fundamentally different from the Russian people, even if slightly oversized

[anjey]

therefore, it is hardly worth considering the uprising “in favor” of serfs with the goals of giving them free will.

In fact, the nobility in the early 19th century, participating in campaigns in Europe, gained liberalism of those times.
First of all, the eyesore was the Russian serfdom-slave system, with the peasantry brought to the state of cattle.
Russia, with backward, poorest and huge masses of the population, was an apaphiosis of backwardness in comparison with Europe, so it’s probably worth considering that there is a version of the USSR textbooks, it’s quite real, why reinvent the wheel ????.

[anjey]

If only in order to whitewash many of the shortcomings of the old Russian monarchy

[saigon]

First of all, gentlemen, the Decembrists were preoccupied with the presence of debts, they scrambled into potatoes, mortgaged the estates, and again they spent a lot of money!
They didn’t give a damn about serfdom (so for a change, at the offer to release their peasants, these bright representatives of the advanced views REFUSED)
Yes, and in fact, in the traditions of the Russian Guard it was to organize coups when it passed when not.

[anjey]

There were bright ideas with which these people simply went to death, risking not only their broken fates but also the most precious wealth, their lives, and you are so small, card debts, adventurism and motostvo, this is how you need Your People (yours?) So to dislike, that would put the heroes-idealists-Decembrists so low ..

[saigon]

Andrei, excuse me, however, all illusions regarding bright ideas and heroism are scattered into small fragments. It is worth reading the investigative materials about this event.
Heroes do not shoot in the back, for example, to General Miloradovich, idealists do not deceive soldiers into the square, heroes idealists do not scoop up from the square, throwing the soldiers as the leaders of this mess. Heroes take, for example, Mr. Decembrist Anenkov in the ranks of the cavalry guards who regularly led his squadron against the rebels (and he is among the main idealists).
Well, if you take the idealist hero Pavel Pestel (the idealist heads in the south), there’s just a bunch of criminally punishable acts that didn’t lie with bright eyes, the embezzlement is just such an appropriation of money allocated to his regiment (it was a bureaucracy even then, and so when transferring his regiment from north to south, money came from two sources, well, a mistake came out.
So above the idealist Pestel, the above-mentioned idealist, appropriated the received amounts, stolen it in such a trite way, appropriated the salaries of officers and soldier money, too, a hero, however.
Well, to read his project on the arrangement of Russia with him at the head, so any dictator will die of envy.
And about the people, this is Russia's great happiness that the rebellion of a handful of conspirators did not succeed, rivers of blood did not spill - understand the idealists are dangerous because their ideals are far from life.
Read the investigation of the Decembrists, it will make you think a lot.
Well, the words of A.S. Pushkin is very wonderful literally I do not remember about - But I could be there like a jester!

[Vinnibuh]

Uv Viktor, I completely agree with you, I recommend reading A. Bushkov's version of "The Guards Century", the morals of the Guards are described in a rather interesting way.

[anjey]

I will not argue with you, romantic idealists, of course, are adventurous in their aspirations, all the more detached from reality, but you forget that these are also people with many vices and shortcomings, generated by both time and
the state in which they lived, for them, may access the Senate and this challenge to the Emperor and the Army contributed to their cleansing as a certain "Purgatory". I remember that the former investigator and writer Sheinin described the "reforging" in the 30s of the last century, by the way when Stalin, reputable recidivist thieves, and there were those who became people, about Makarenko and thieves-neglected children who became positive citizens of the USSR, there are also many positive things can be said, I mean that in our time there is a place for idealists-unmercenaries, who are unfortunately superfluous in our time for certain forces and do not fit into the "capitalist paradise", the example of Mozgova in Novorossiya (was eliminated), whose draft is not a modern Senate, of course, in the original understanding of the common people, so all these additional facts and the film about the Decembrists, as if they belittle the latter and still carry the task of whitewashing the monarchy, but is it necessary to debunk the heroic myths ??? Many peoples are proud of them, although there is less truth in them than in our and still heroic historical events.

[SVD68]

Quote: anjey

for them, maybe access to the Senate and this challenge to the Emperor and the Army, contributed to their purification as a certain "Purgatory"

Perhaps for the Orlovs and Teeth, the challenge to the emperor contributed to their purification?

[anjey]

For one, Love for his Ideal (Catherine ||), which he helped bring to power, the other is also in the group of guards officers who decided to change the vector of power, but by the way, nobody raised them to the pedestal of revolutionaries, they remained in Stories by conspirators.

[Sergey S.]

Read the investigation of the Decembrists, it will make you think a lot.
Well, the words of A.S. Pushkin is very wonderful literally I do not remember about - But I could be there like a jester!

In fairness, we must also read Gogol or Leskov ...

One should also recall the answer of A.S. Pushkin to Nikolai when asked what he would do. if I were in Petersburg. And he answered definitely: I would be with the conspirators ...

So everything is not simple and the result is not obvious.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

In February 1917 it turned out, however. And in October 1993, if the Guard helped the people, then the USSR would be restored. But ... history has no subjunctive mood. Alas. And it is right.

[Cheerock]

Do not carry nonsense. For starters, they could give their personal serfs free freedom without land and see what comes of it. The authorities they wanted, for the serf and their soldier they did not care.

[anjey]

Now the fact that their bonding is already History, they really risked their lives, committed a kind of act, albeit for the sake of the "correct power", revile the current respectable thieves, bandits and swindlers who have long climbed into the leadership and the state apparatus of Russia, not all of them "reforged" and still And they, too, excuse me, do not give a shit about modern slaves

[SVD68]

Actually, the Decembrists wanted to carry out an analogue of the English enclosure by "liberating" the peasants without land.
Yakushkin even tried to free his peasants without land. But the peasants did not want to voluntarily. And when attempting to forcibly "liberate" the peasants, the authorities intervened. according to the decree of Alexander I, it was forbidden to free the peasants otherwise than under the law "On Free Farmers", that is, only with the ground.

[16329]

Especially, of course, the serfs were poor in comparison with, for example, the English factory workers.
It may be enough to repeat the stupid cliches about the "bestial position of serfs"
There was always interdependence between landlords and serfs, and it was simply unprofitable for the landowner to oppress the peasants too much, since the latter could also respond to oppression by the method of open disobedience and resistance (by murders, arson, etc.)
Many Russian large entrepreneurs came out of the peasants, many bought themselves from the landowners, etc.
Of course there were some excesses and problems, especially with the so-called. Yards, but there are also different examples.
The problem was different, the peasants were supposed to get freedom after the decree of Peter lll on the liberty of the nobility, which allowed the nobles to not serve.
The serfdom of the peasants in the absence of obligations to serve the state on the part of the landowners and led to the formation of a gap between the peasant masses and the nobility
The balance of interests and responsibility in society was destroyed
This, of course, the peasants were unhappy and waited for release
The discontent of the peasants with their serfdom was a mine under the state system of Russia
This was reflected in armed conflicts, when the peasantry took an almost neutral position in relation to foreign invaders
This was clearly manifested, for example, in the war of 1812, when peasants refused to evacuate along with the landlords, abandon and destroy their economy, etc.
(Tolstoy described such a course of events at the Bolkonski estate)

[anjey]

Quote: 16329

The balance of interests and responsibility in society was destroyed

Golden words, by the way, are very relevant for modern Russia and directly related to its security, this is due to huge gaps in the incomes of its population, I put you a plus. And for the rest of the calculations, then my opinion is that true is always somewhere in the middle

[SVD68]

Quote: 16329

The problem was different, the peasants were supposed to get freedom after the decree of Peter lll on the liberty of the nobility, which allowed the nobles to not serve.
The serfdom of the peasants in the absence of obligations to serve the state on the part of the landowners and led to the formation of a gap between the peasant masses and the nobility
The balance of interests and responsibility in society was destroyed
This, of course, the peasants were unhappy and waited for release

Are you serious about what the peasants were unhappy with? Not that they have little land. Not that I had to work for free. Not that the landowner could screw up. Not that I could tear my family apart. And the fact that the balance of interests and responsibility is upset. Seriously?

[16329]

Do you seriously think that a landowner could just have killed a peasant?
Of course, this also happened, but sometimes the peasants sometimes killed the landlords.
For the murder of a peasant landowner tried, see statistics on such cases
The rest is also untrue, no one has separated the families, unless they could have been sent to soldiers with recruiting
Work for free?
The peasant had his allotment and his farm
He worked on a landlord for a landowner (a certain time on the landowner's land) which many later replaced with a cash tax paid by the community
And of course, the peasants were unhappy that they should work for someone who can do nothing and did not understand why they should be fed

[Thunderbolt]

Tsarism failed to correctly understand the signal given by the Decembrists. Reforms seem to have gone, but control has also tightened. It is understandable, because the system of autocracy has developed over many centuries. By the 17th year, all the ulcers of the autocracy had completely opened and the worst happened. Russia was split up, it destroyed everything inside of itself, and it simply presented a very valuable part of itself to the world in the form of emigration.
Pushkin, for example, understood well that Russia did not meet the spirit of the times. At eighteen, he felt this with the wisdom of his genius. And those sitting on the throne understood poorly what surprises the bourgeoisie and the proletariat were preparing for them in the future.

Only there over the royal head
The peoples did not suffer
Where tight with the liberty of the saint
The laws of powerful combination;
Where everyone has their hard shield stretched out
Where clenched with faithful hands
Citizens over equal chapters
Their sword glides without a choice.

<...> and today learn, O kings:
No punishment, no reward
Neither the dungeon shelter nor the altars -
Incorrect fences for you.
Bow first chapter
In the shadow of a reliable law,
And become the eternal guardians of the throne
The peoples liberty and peace.
Pushkin

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Pushkin, for example, understood well that Russia did not meet the spirit of the times.

Thank you for remembering A.S. Pushkin. Sincerely.

[the finish]

It became interesting and recently watched documentary series
"Rurikovich" and "Romanovs".

[Sergey S.]

It became interesting and recently watched documentary series
"Rurikovich" and "Romanovs".

It is better to read textbooks ... And then from the sweet perception of history, "mental diabetes can happen" ...

[evgic]

Just imagine: HSE students will gather, take up arms and go to storm the Kremlin ...

The maximum that HSE students are capable of is taking off from the first shot in the air. Comparison is not appropriate

[Thunderbolt]

Students they are different.Evgeny Fatikhovich Manyurov. He graduated from the Russian Academy of Justice and attended courses at the Higher School of Economics. In addition, he participated in the competitions of the Moscow city shooting and sports club DOSAAF. In November 2019, Manyurov took third place in the competition.

[AU Ivanov.]

Well. Do not confuse sport shooting and the use of weapons to defeat. There is a gap between these concepts.

[Thunderbolt]

As it turned out, this "student" had no psychological problems with the shooting at FSB officers.

[saigon]

And during the Second World War students as it was not very badly commanded platoons, companies and higher such a comment on the topic

[AU Ivanov.]

In the Patriotic War, it was not personnel personnel who won, but the reserve men and hastily issued wartime commanders. I'm talking about the level from platoon to regiment.

[nikvic46]

Andrei: Do you think the storerooms are not military personnel?

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Yes, this is probably the case all over the world - personnel military wars begin, and we, the people, are waging and ending them. So it was and will be so.

[SVD68]

The Decembrist uprising is one of the episodes of the noble liberty, which began after Peter I and continued until Nicholas I.
The slave position of serfs was caused precisely by the fact that the nobility did not comply with the laws and was itself a law. And it was this noble freemen who did not allow the peasants to be liberated - the rulers, no matter how liberal they were, were simply afraid to carry out this reform contrary to the interests of the nobility.
He ended the noble liberty of Nicholas I. Previously, the kings relied on the nobility. And who went against, was eliminated by the nobility. Nicholas I, unlike his predecessors, relied on a new force - bureaucracy. And with her help he managed to break the nobility of freemen. And already Alexander II was able to carry out reforms without significant resistance.

[Kronos]

Not one he did not bring to mind even the peasants with the land did not dare to free

[SVD68]

Quote: Kronos

Not one he did not bring to mind even the peasants with the land did not dare to free

Of course, here one can cite both the successful codification of Russian laws and the successful financial reform. But the main thing is another - the restructuring of the entire control system of the Empire. Previously, management was carried out through the nobility (the share of non-nobles in the state apparatus was 2%), the payment of which went through the distribution of land and peasants, then Nikolai was governed by the bureaucracy ((the share of non-nobles in the state apparatus increased to 48%), which served for salaries. for the reign of Nicholas grew by 6 times. And having closed this apparatus to the emperor, Nicholas made palace coups organizationally impossible.

[alexey alexeyev_2]

Yes, you throw a damn thing .. No reform Kohl first and did not think to carry out .. Do you really think that the nobles could have some resistance. Yes, most of them were nobles by length of service and not by gender and condition .. Goat on the throne. Yes forgive me these noble animals with such a comparison

[Cycle boss]

Be the rebellion of the “Decembrists" at the present time .. it will definitely not be for the workers, peasants .. it will just be the struggle of the oligarchs for the feeding trough .. the world has always been so, and will remain so

[Jarserge]

The Decembrists are mythologized under the tsar and the Bolsheviks contributed very, very much to this myth. But in fact, the Decembrists is a common conspiracy of the aristocracy, having seen enough of the tops of life in Europe and decided that with certain modifications can be put into practice at home. And most importantly, you can write off debts for mortgaged re-mortgaged estates. And it's not a joke. Many researchers drew attention to the fact that virtually the entire top of the conspiracy were debtors of the imperial family. In fact, they lived on credit. There was no talk of any easing of the regime, the liberation of the peasants; these were all inventions of later liberals. Just look at the documents of the Decembrists, how they saw the device of Russia and everything falls into place. Suffice it to say that under the emperor the whole gendarme corps was numbering several thousand people and gentlemen the Decembrists saw him more than 33 thousandth well and so on

[saigon]

Many people don’t want to believe what you say, the legends are tenacious, but the fact that the gendarmes had a political investigation was far from the top ten tasks.
And the surname and combat biography of the creator of the gendarme corps spread the myth of the heroes of the twelfth year.

[Jarserge]

True, she is like that, and there’s no need to talk about the truth - she’s unkempt, unwashed and sometimes luring

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

The Decembrists Patch is a Masonic conspiracy led and funded by puppeteers from London, Washington and Tel Aviv. Therefore, after the coup (February + October) of 1917, it was beneficial for the Bolsheviks about them to simply say that they were revolutionaries who awakened ... (see the list below). And if we, Soviet schoolchildren, were told the truth then in history lessons about the Decembrists, then we would have questions, etc. Further - we would carry these questions home and confused parents and grandparents. And so of the Decembrists made the first revolutionaries and the point.

[Jarserge]

Exactly, I heard that in Tel Aviv, maybe Haifa was experiencing a time machine .... apparently Israel shared with London and Washington .... and they reached December 14, 1825.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Oh, yes ... these have long legs - they can even reach out in the days of the Pharaohs! ...

[Andrey VOV]

Quote: Finches

Interest in history is high, but the level of knowledge is low! Nobody wants to dribble in the archives - it's boring, boring and does not bring any dividends! The Internet is our everything! I looked at the film - which is about the Decembrists - the Union of Salvation! It can be seen that the director tried and the actors even tried, but for some reason, inside, as if according to Stanislavsky, I do not believe it! But the old movie Star of captivating happiness, more trust! Tolley acting fails, or something historical is missing?

Evgeny .. our old acting school is understandably stronger than now .. but do not forget that when the film "The Star of Captivating Happiness" came out, how much younger we were))))

[abrakadabre]

Considerable attention was paid to this event in Soviet history textbooks, but to a greater extent - precisely as an event, but no more.

Great attention - yes. was considered only as an event - no. The author is lying. It lies, and does not say or does not know.

What exactly the rebellious nobles were going to carry to the peasantry was not particularly accepted to mention, much less analyze.

The author is lying. Everything was exactly the opposite.

The Decembrist uprising is as if the HSE (Higher School of Economics) organized the uprising today. Just imagine: HSE students will gather, take up arms and go to storm the Kremlin ...

The author is disingenuous. The Decembrists belonged to the noble elite. And the majority were in military service in high command positions. There were no students - "they are children" there and there weren't any. But there were people with combat experience.
So it’s necessary to compare with the putsch of the generals, and not with some there ... HSE-mi ...

The only thing such a comparison of the author is true is that the Decembrists in the economy have no more than these ... from the HSE. That is, nothing. They are terribly far from the people ...

[alexey alexeyev_2]

Oh, he signed up ... he introduced yasin in the role of Pestel ..... Pestel, although scary, was for the power and its integrity was torn off .. Well, it’s like Napoleon ... And this is with someone from the wizard who will sell the cent and mother to the panel. .

[nikvic46]

After an unprecedented rise during the Patriotic War, Russia again plunged into its former life. Perhaps the uprising of the Decembrists played a role in the abolition of serfdom. It is not for nothing that that century is called golden. That century gave the twentieth century a good legacy in the field of literature, history. Listening to modern historians, writers. , artists, the only thought that comes to mind is "how shallow we are swimming." And speaking in thug language, it's just "a trifle in our pockets."

[Cheerock]

Quote: anjey

Now the fact that their bonding is already History, they really risked their lives, committed a kind of act, albeit for the sake of the "correct power", revile the current respectable thieves, bandits and swindlers who have long climbed into the leadership and the state apparatus of Russia, not all of them "reforged" and still And they, too, excuse me, do not give a shit about modern slaves

- What do they give?
- Pestel.
“Is that better than Port?”
I don’t know if it’s better, but Russian Truth is a big deal. Read the program document of the Decembrists from beginning to end about what kind of power they proposed to establish. Modern plutocracy nervously smokes on the sidelines out of envy. The ways of solving the Caucasian, Jewish and Finnish issues that Pestel's comrades proposed are incredibly delivered. Even communists, whose hands were not tightly tied, could not afford such radical things on the verge of genocide and racial segregation. And yes, read the chapter "Noble Peasants" carefully. They were not going to give any freedom to their personal assets and slaves.

[Fishery]

yeah, that the authors smoked is unknown) to resettle Jews in Turkey))) Caucasians deep into Russia) there came a slip) they are already everywhere)

[Cheerock]

Quote: SVD68

Actually, the Decembrists wanted to carry out an analogue of the English enclosure by "liberating" the peasants without land.
Yakushkin even tried to free his peasants without land. But the peasants did not want to voluntarily. And when attempting to forcibly "liberate" the peasants, the authorities intervened. according to the decree of Alexander I, it was forbidden to free the peasants otherwise than under the law "On Free Farmers", that is, only with the ground.

Yes, but not really. They wanted to arrange for the state peasants a kind of "serf" kibbutz while maintaining the quitrent at the same level, and they did not intend to liberate the noble serfs at all.

[SVD68]

Muravyov provided for landless land; land remained with the landowners. Then, nevertheless, Muravyov decided to give a small plot, but to leave the bulk of the land to the landowners.
Pestel clearly has that the power of people over other people is unacceptable and should not be strong. He does not write directly about the earth. But upon release, the rule must be followed: owners should not lose income from their estates. Those. hidden method leaves the land to the landlords, taking away from the peasants.
In fact, the same enclosure is the expulsion of peasants from the land for further obtaining land rents.

[Cheerock]

Quote: abrakadabre

Considerable attention was paid to this event in Soviet history textbooks, but to a greater extent - precisely as an event, but no more.

Great attention - yes. was considered only as an event - no. The author is lying. It lies, and does not say or does not know.

The author does not lie. In Soviet school history, the uprising was considered precisely as an event, plus there was an analysis of their mistakes precisely as an example of an unprepared revolution. The program of the Decembrists at the school level did not understand, and could not understand, because it smelled strongly of fascism (the Jewish question, the Caucasian question, the seizure of new territories, etc.)

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Lord, yes we "skipped" the topic of the Decembrists at school in one lesson! ... What is the analysis of their programs, what subtleties, what are you writing about?!? There was nothing. Yes, and our school teachers did not understand much about this, or maybe they did not want to understand - it was one thing for us to talk about Princess Olga or Dmitry Donskoy, and another thing to blurt out something wrong about the Decembrists: it was possible to fly out of school for non-partisan views on the very firstborn roar. movement ... Care was needed here. And oblono together with the regional party committee will then figure it out as it should. Therefore, school teachers did not bother with all this. I am now older than them in age and understand them perfectly.

[Cheerock]

So I say this: they called them the forerunners, they condemned the tsar and Pushkin’s verse. All.

[Cheerock]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Tsarism failed to correctly understand the signal given by the Decembrists. Reforms seem to have gone, but control has also tightened.

Read Pestel about the role of Security in State affairs. Orwell cries with envy.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Tsarism understood everything perfectly, but the inertia of the RI was enormous, plus a huge backwardness in all directions ... Yes, put you at least a day as the emperor of the RI in the first quarter of the XNUMXth century - you would have washed down in black, or would have shot yourself!

[Cheerock]

Dear Andrew,

It seems that you are confusing my comments with the comments that I commented on.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Dear Vladimir, I run only at lunchtime on "VO" and to be honest, I just have no time to delve into whose and where comments and what comments from the comments of other comments ... So, do not be offended and excuse me, there is no time to rush! ... Have a good day!

[Cheerock]

What are you, what are you ... What insults, especially since the positions coincide

[Cheerock]

Quote: SVD68

Muravyov provided for landless land; land remained with the landowners. Then, nevertheless, Muravyov decided to give a small plot, but to leave the bulk of the land to the landowners.
Pestel clearly has that the power of people over other people is unacceptable and should not be strong. He does not write directly about the earth. But upon release, the rule must be followed: owners should not lose income from their estates. Those. hidden method leaves the land to the landlords, taking away from the peasants.
In fact, the same enclosure is the expulsion of peasants from the land for further obtaining land rents.

About the land he writes directly and clearly: in the case of peasants "state" (that is, belonging to the crown) and church, the land is divided into two parts - "public" and "state". Public land is not sold or leased, it is cultivated by "liberated" peasants with the retention of the quitrent payment in the same amount for a period of 10-20 years. That is, in fact, a collective farm with working off "liberation" in kind. The "state" part of the land is sold and leased to those who have the money and opportunities for it. I would say that this is the foundation for the formation of a class of latifundists, but the peasants are past the "cash desk" here, because where did they get their money from? All this - with regards to the assets of the royal and church, which were not noble anyway.
About the noble lands and peasants, he writes that: the well-being of noble peasants depends on the personality of the nobleman who owns them. For a good nobleman, the peasants live well, they, de, do not need to change anything, but with the evil peasants live badly and something needs to be done with them. But the question is very complex and therefore it is not necessary to solve it now, but later it is necessary to consider "two or three projects and choose the best one." That is, never.

[SVD68]

[quote = CheeRock]
About the noble lands and peasants, he writes that: the well-being of noble peasants depends on the personality of the nobleman who owns them. For a good nobleman, the peasants live well, they don’t need to change anything, but for the evil peasants they do not live well and have to do something with them. But the question is very complex and therefore it is not necessary to solve it now, but later it is necessary to consider "two or three projects and choose the best one." That is, never. [/ Quote]
No, Pestel writes about the current state. He further writes that although possessing people is called serfdom, this slavery must undoubtedly be abolished.
Pro consider later. Pestel initially implies a transitional period in the form of a dictatorship. During this period, all transformations, including serfs must become free citizens.

[quote = CheeRock] [quote = SVD68]
I would say that this is the foundation for the formation of a class of latifundists, but the peasants are past the "cash desk" here, because where did they get their money from? All this - with regards to the assets of the royal and church, which were not noble anyway. [/ quote]
I say that the reform according to the Decembrists is a kind of enclosure for the emergence of landlords, as in England, who will transfer agriculture to capitalist paths, they will invest in industry, trade, science, art, etc.

[Cheerock]

In fact, we are arguing about the details, but we understand the main thing: the Decembrists are generally not about the "happiness of the people", but about the happiness of some other small part of the people.

[iouris]

No, the "Decembrists" are about the introduction of one great idea into Russian (modern) life.

[Cheerock]

The Decembrists had such "wonderful" ideas on the program there that the whole country would have been drowned in blood three times ...

[iouris]

"The circle of these" revolutionaries "is narrow. They are terribly far from the people (!)" [V. I. Lenin "In Memory of Herzen" (1912)] History teaches that it does not teach anything.

[andrew42]

Freemasonry in itself is not God only knows what "self-evident" phenomenon - the blind lead the blind, without asking unnecessary questions about the Master. And to be dogs on Masonic leashes (in slaves of slaves) is generally disgraceful. But this is exactly how the Decembrists "acted". Who knows, if not for this performance, there might not have been such a harsh Nikolaev reaction. And so the "sapper troops major" decided once and for all to punish any stuttering about political reforms. And he was right in his own way, for he himself was a direct witness of the impending collapse of the Russian state, and at the same time his savior, who showed his personal will. The Decembrists - a rehearsal for February 1917, now it can be seen with the naked eye. If Nikolai Palych had become weak-minded, then the devilry of 1917 would have occurred in 1825. Serf Russia is bad, the end of Russia in any form is death.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: kjhg

Quote: Barmaleyka

Quote: svp67
combat officers

that does not cancel the fact of treason

But what if the country's leaders betrayed the people and their interests, for which they are responsible? Are acting officers, soldiers, teachers, and workers then entitled to insurrection? By the way, the right to rebellion is recognized by the UN as the fundamental right of a people oppressed by its rulers. So your words about treason, in relation to such events - are bullshit, designed for slaves.

How did you betray the interests if this system is from Peter's or even earlier times? It’s the same as Putin’s dispossessed of all oligarchs today and distributed their property

[Pilat2009]

Quote: iouris

No, the "Decembrists" are about the introduction of one great idea into Russian (modern) life.

The French Revolution taught nothing, repeated in 1917