Eurofighter Typhoon: business on the Vistula

European allies do not lose hope of creating a military airline business on the Vistula River and accelerate air expansion. We are talking about the heavy fighters Eurofighter Typhoon.

The promise to expand industrial cooperation will be the key that will open access to the most ambitious rearmament programs for the Polish aviationwrites the resource radar.rp.pl. In December 2019, representatives of the Italian defense, aviation and space industries, including the Italian Leonardo group, actively promoted this idea in Warsaw.

Poland is already a strategic client of Leonardo Corporation, representatives of the Italian industrial giant say. The Italians recalled a contract for eight AJT M-346 Master aircraft received by the Eagle School in Polish Deblin. Now the fleet of light aircraft AJT will expand due to new simulators. They will be operated by the Polish Air Force as part of an integrated training system for pilots of Polish military aviation.

Why is the Ministry of National Defense of Poland tempted by Eurofighter Typhoon fighters?

At present, Eurofighters, descending from production lines, are machines with increased tactical capabilities. Much has changed compared to when Eurofighter Typhoon was used in the Old World 14-15 years ago. Military expert Jerzy Grushinsky confirms that the fighter "becomes a multi-tasking machine." The last point above the "i" was set by the installation of weapons, namely long-range missiles. Grushinsky believes that after the current modernization, the Eurofighter Typhoon can qualify as a 4+ generation aircraft.

True, this car is "not quite invisible." This is especially clear from comparing Typhoon with the latest models: the F-35 Lightning II from Lockheed Martin or Rafale from Dassault Aviation. Eurofighter differs from them in a weaker limited detection system (stealth).

Typhoons, on the other hand, make up for this weakness with much greater payload. According to Grushinski, the increased carrying capacity opens up the possibility of expanding the airborne reconnaissance and electronic warfare equipment. At the same time, it allows the use of suspensions with additional missile weapons. New electronic equipment and weapons allow the Typhoons to simultaneously perform several different tasks in one flight, the expert points out.

To date, the industrial consortium Eurofighter (Airbus Defense & Space, Leonardo and BAE Systems with production centers in Germany, Italy and the UK) has released 623 Typhoons. As a result, Eurofighter became the largest European military program.

Typhoon has new radars. He is armed with high-precision European missiles, including Storm Shadow to destroy strategic ground targets. In addition, the vehicles will receive Meteor guided missiles (air-to-air) and Brimstone anti-tank missiles.

"Typhoons" are in fleets of already eight countries. These are Germany, Austria, Great Britain, Italy, Spain, Saudi Arabia and Oman. The first plane is waiting for the ninth participant, Kuwait: the state ordered 24 cars.

Comments

[Victor_B]

Poles need to sell F-35!
Only F-35!
And more expensive!
So that Poland finally disappears!

[Mavrikiy]

European allies do not lose hope of creating a military airline business on the Vistula River and accelerate air expansion. We are talking about the heavy fighters Eurofighter Typhoon.

Let them dream, Pshek has its breadwinner.

Quote: Victor_B

Poles need to sell F-35!
Only F-35!
And more expensive!
So that Poland finally disappears!

That's right, even if the Sejm is against it.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Mavrikiy

That's right, even if the Sejm is against it.

"To ruin a small country it is enough to give it a cruiser"

(Someone of the greats)

And here also SELL (expensive) God himself commanded.

[TermNachTer]

It is unlikely that the psheks will "pull" the F - 35 - a very expensive tsyatska. Even if the Dutch have "turned on" the back, then where are the proud masters? Comparing the economic opportunities of Poland and the Netherlands is not even funny. But the Washington Reich Chancellery will not allow its servants to buy some European trash, only kosher, mattress airplanes.

[Timx]

Poland’s economy will be 2 times more Dutch (oh, excuse me, Dutch) - they have enough money ..

[TermNachTer]

Where does this data come from? From Polish sources? I’m embarrassed to ask how such nishtyaki are earned - by assembling refrigerators and washers from Korean spare parts?

[Sergej1972]

PPP GDP in Poland is approximately 25% higher than the Dutch one. And GDP at face value, on the contrary, is about half as small among the Poles. So you are wrong.

[Timx]

GDP is generally an extremely strange indicator for comparing economic systems (economic systems and housing construction) of different countries, it is inherently biased. So, the Dutch GDP counts, for example, the turnover of subsidiaries of Gazprom and Rosneft, services for the transshipment of millions of tons of Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesian consumer goods, to the production of which the Netherlands have the same relationship as we do to growing forests in the taiga or crystallizing diamonds in the bowels of Yakutia (which, by the way, still go to Amsterdam for a pittance for a pittance and thereby increase the GDP of the Netherlands ..) + a bunch of legal, consulting, rating agencies, offices and firms, whose services are so demanded primarily by countries '' 3 th world. '' But, since most of their profits immediately go to offshores and the pockets of their founders and co-owners, they also pay purely symbolic taxes to the budgets of the countries - therefore we get that the GDP formally in such `` highly developed '', `` post-industrial '' economies is quite high, but these countries do not have real money for the development of infrastructure and the purchase of weapons (and most importantly, their further maintenance). In contrast, by the way, from countries like Vietnam, Indonesia or Turkey and Algeria, which, having a developed `` real sector '' of their economies, have no less `` real '' revenues to the budgets of their countries and the ability to build and develop infrastructure, maintain and strengthen the armed forces ..

These include Poland, which produces a significant part of both food and industrial (and very high-tech) products in the European Union - they, for example, produce fuselages for all export S-70 Blackhawk helicopters and, in part, for S- 92, made on the basis of the same S-70, and also participate in production cooperation for aircraft engines from GE and the French SAFRAN Group, make transmissions for the same modern helicopters (with which we, for example, have full seams), and also participate in large shipbuilding programs of France and Italy as a partner of levels 1-2 ...

So Poland is quite a developed economy (although, of course, not self-sufficient due to its size and relatively small population), somewhat reminiscent of Israel, with adjustments for the size of countries and some other characteristic features)) But the opportunity to buy a couple of squadrons '' Eurofighters '', '' Rafaley '' or those same F-35s she definitely has: if Austria at one time took '' Typhoons '' (more precisely, the Germans gave them them to raise their image and status in the EF- 2000, which at that moment fell below the plinth), paying the full export price for them, which in those years was hoo

[Sergej1972]

But the Netherlands also has a very developed real sector of the economy. Take at least their agriculture, one of the most developed in the world.

[Timx]

Yes, they have, like many other EU countries, however But, just like in neighboring countries (France, Belgium, Great Britain, etc.), it is sharply subsidized (consider, `` planned unprofitable ''), remember at least the protests of local farmers after the EU imposed sanctions and stopped exporting their products to Russia - they were only calmed down by another increase in subsidies from the state. And where do the governments of such small countries (the population of the Netherlands are about 17 million people, including several million emigrants from all over the world, who for the most part sit on the neck of the state) get the funds for all these subsidies and benefits? That's right, at the expense of saving on cheap Russian gas, oil, diamonds and at the expense of billions of `` our '' (rather already theirs) oligarchs, which they are happy to pump out of our economy and pour into them
Therefore, we do not hear about cases of a ban on the vision of `` business '' for such terrible `` friends '' of our president in their law-abiding and just countries, sacredly respecting human rights and all sorts of other minorities ..))

[atalef]

Quote: TimX

who themselves for the most part sit on the neck of the state) take funds for all these subsidies and benefits? That's right, at the expense of saving on cheap Russian gas, oil, diamonds and at the expense of billions of `` our '' (rather already theirs) oligarchs, which they are happy to pump out of our economy and pour into them

Well, yes, the whole world lives at your expense.

[Timx]

Well, the countries of Europe, for the most part, have been doing this for the past 70 years: they scare the States with the `` Russian threat '' and get pleasant `` nishtyaks '' for this, and they themselves do not really hide this - they are constantly `` burning '', already Trump Putin and Chinese Xi have been `` teased '' about this for a long time

[atalef]

Quote: TimX

Well, the countries of Europe, for the most part, have been doing this for the last 70 years: they scare the States with the `` Russian threat '' and get pleasant `` nishtyaks '' for it,

Are there proofs?
You already understand, then at the expense of Russia everyone lives, then at the expense of the States.

[Timx]

I do not have time to add comments - each time a part of the message disappears
Yes, there is nothing special to understand: the States since the beginning of the 90s have `` allowed '' Europe to use our resources (they often actively participate in these schemes - the resale of Russian liquefied gas by Americans to Europe under the guise of their own and at a price `` like from states ', - as an example (works especially well with Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic countries, etc.)
+ they could have long ago delivered a tough ultimatum to European countries on the reception of Russian billionaires and their relatives with their `` dirty '' billions and the laundering of this `` money '' in Europe - after all, this contradicts all their tales about the `` rule of law and the rule of law '', but instead the States do not hesitate to invite them to their place in Miami and New York - money does not `` smell ''))) These are the pies, if very shortly

[atalef]

Quote: TimX

Yes, there is really nothing special to understand: the States since the beginning of the 90s have allowed Europe to use our resources

Quote: TimX

the resale of Russian liquefied gas by the Americans to Europe under the guise of their own and at a price `` as from the states ''

Where do you buy grass?

[Timx]

Where do you buy grass?

- but what's the difference, they don't sell to the Israelis)) So, somehow on their own ...

[TermNachTer]

Holland - 17th world economy, Poland is not included in 20

[Timx]

Holland?? There is no longer such a country (5 days already as there is no) Now there is only the Netherlands: without drugs, prostitutes, the slave trade and infringement of the rights of minorities, but with tulips, LGBT freedoms, pedophilia and eutonasia - cheers, comrades!

And, about the 17th economy of the world or the 27th - not a desire to repeat your impressive size `` magnum opus '' 5 lines above about comparing the economies of different countries is stupid by only one indicator - GDP, you can read it yourself

[TermNachTer]

Holland is Philipps, Royal Dutch Shell, Airbass, Semiconductor, Constellium. What shaw is Poland?

[Timx]

I wonder only how sideways Airbus Their last `` Flying Dutchman '' (Fokker-F100) recently crashed in Kazakhstan and, it seems, will now live out its life only in the African outback or somewhere in Bangladesh with Laos ..

[TermNachTer]

In the city of Leiden, there is a very large Airbus factory.

[Timx]

And what about Poland:

Poland, which produces a significant part of industrial (and very high-tech) products in the European Union - they, for example, produce helicopter fuselages for the Italian Leonardo and for all export S-70 Blackhawk helicopters, as well as, in part, for the S-92, made on the basis of the same S-70, and also participate in production cooperation for aircraft engines from GE and the French SAFRAN Group, make transmissions for the same modern helicopters (with which we have, for example, full seams), take part in major shipbuilding programs ...

Of course, this is such a trifle against the background of the '' fuel tanks '' plant of the '' great '' Netherlands

[TermNachTer]

Cooperation - do the boxes into which engines are then packed?

[Timx]

Poland produced 1000 helicopter engines a year back in the 80s, and here are your `` boxes '', I don't know ..

[TermNachTer]

In the 80s, Ukraine built hundreds of aircraft. Since 2016 - not one.

[Timx]

Poland is not Ukraine for you, their first university appeared 400 years earlier than in Russia; and in Holland at that time the plague of the city was mowing down (they even now in the 21st century drain sewage into canals - these are your idols, the `` lights '' of civilization)))
PS
Read at your leisure, who founded the French school of gas turbine engines, or invented and sold the helicopters of the longitudinal scheme to the Americans .. Anything more useful than arguing is unclear what

[TermNachTer]

I think when the first university appeared in Holland, in Poland they ran with stone axes. And what does Russia have to do with it, are we talking about a geyropu?

[Timx]

And what's next to argue? It was about whether the Poles would be able to buy pieces of 20-30 flyers such as Rafal, Eurofighter or the same F-35, receiving subsidies both from the EU and from the USA (as a member of NATO). In my opinion - completely, since they express a desire ... Then the flood that was no longer needed by anyone has already gone

[TermNachTer]

You yourself named the key phrase - "if they are given money", but then - I completely agree - "talk in favor of the poor."

[Timx]

Well, in Europe only France, Britain and, in part, Germany and Italy can afford to buy weapons at their own expense, and even that, they need to be intimidated as it should ... This is not a poverty problem in the former social block countries

[TermNachTer]

Strange, Holland also buys its own weapons. But the great Polyandia is waiting for handouts from Brussels or Washington. But what about its super powerful economy?

[Timx]

Strange, the Netherlands also buys its own weapons

so the fact of the matter is that it doesn’t buy, but reduces, sells and re-merges once decently equipped troops: of the last losses - abandonment of tank troops, only BMPs and armored personnel carriers remained, and that cat cried ... But when they had their own aircraft carrier (equal to the British in size ..) We’ll also have to say goodbye to aviation soon - 25 pieces of F-16A (built in the early 80s) remained, and a dozen Apaches were still relatively intact (from the mid-90s ) From the Dutch army there were horns and legs, do you really not know?
Maybe that's why it became embarrassing for Holland to continue to be called that only the asexual biomass remained from the glorious centuries-old history of the people, army and navy ..

[Timx]

The 'Netherlands' is like a 'deep state' conquered from the sea. So already, it seems, there is one `` deep people '' in mind, `` ukrami '' is called! Those in general dug the Black Sea (in spite of the `` Muscovites '', apparently ) - comrades are on the right path. So you can jump to the `` NIGERlands '' that no `` Dutch Shells '' and other `` Phillips '' will be needed by anyone there, everything goes along the knurled path they have .. So they (the Dutch) still have a common past with the Poles and Ukrainians - the Khazar is present (well, MH17 also brought them together extremely)) ...

[TermNachTer]

And which of the Geyropeyts or even take it wider - NATO does not reduce its armies? So, the Dutch follow pan-European trends, so to speak. They even, along with everyone, participated in the F-35 program, but then thought better of it. So your claims, you can safely address any geyropeyskim power.

[Timx]

And which of the Geyropeyts or even take it wider - NATO does not reduce its armies?

Well, the Poles, for example, now have the largest tank army in Europe (about 1200 Leopard and Leopard 2 are not the oldest versions + they constantly upgrade them). This, for a minute, is 1.5 times more than Russia’s T-72B3, T-90S and T-80U combined now .. While some are rolling a dozen handicraft-built plastic `` Armats '' around Red Square and tirelessly promoting themselves against their background, pragmatic people bought excellent equipment from Germany, Sweden and the same Holland, and last year the Germans gave them about 600 more of their cars with commitment to modernization with the participation of German firms. Here is an excellent example of a sensible building of your own armed forces with limited capabilities))

[TermNachTer]

Why are they upgrading T - 72? Probably in spite of the oath to the Nazis?

[Timx]

It’s so clear, it seems - in order to maintain their industrial capacities and the combat capability of the army they have not yet fully mastered the repair and modernization of Western equipment - they don’t buy T-72 now for their money, but received it when they divided the assets of the Warsaw block, so why get rid of gifts ... The same applies to MiG-29 fighters, and Mi-2, B-3, Mi-14, Mi-17 helicopters and other types of weapons of the CMEA era.

[Timx]

It would be better if they were so worried about their Dutchmen: they seem to again firmly intend to `` surrender to the mercy of the strongest '' without firing a single shot, as was the case with them in 1940 - they stubbornly refuse to learn even from their mistakes ...
Well, maybe it’s right, on the other hand: it’s for sure that now women already give birth to decent women more)))

[TermNachTer]

And how did the heroic Polyandia conquer in World War II? Especially with her show off before the start of the war.

[Timx]

I, in fact, do not care about them in the same way as about your `` Dutchmen '', but in fairness, they draw conclusions from their own history, like the Finns after 1918, by the way - they now have the largest armored forces to the west from Russia, which are only getting stronger every year.

[TermNachTer]

Why not develop if Washington and Brussels pay for it? I would also develop if I found someone who would pay for it.

[Timx]

Why not develop if Washington and Brussels pay for it?

So the fact of the matter is that the army of Belgium itself, where exactly Brussels is the capital, is an even more miserable sight than the Dutch or Danish: why are they sponsoring all sorts of different `` hicks '' to the detriment of themselves, do they really hope that will they stand for them to death, until the "last living Pole"?

I would also develop if I could find who would pay for it

Well, this is some kind of passive position)) 'If only, if only ... Just like the Balts or Bulgarians, by God Here are the Finns, and after them the Poles, Slovaks, Hungarians, Czechs found the way to the means and forced them to work for the good of their country, no matter how miserable and insignificant they seemed to various couch experts.

[e-sam]

Quote: TermNachTER

And how did the heroic Polyandia conquer in World War II?

5,5 years. As long as the Poles, only the Germans fought in 2 MB.

[TermNachTer]

You have problems with arithmetic. If we consider the resistance movement, then the Dutch also fought like. If you consider those who fought while sitting in England, then there was only anyone there - the entire geyropa escaped. And so, organized resistance stopped on September 14th, i.e. - two weeks. Exactly as much as the Dutch.

[e-sam]

Quote: TermNachTER

You have problems with arithmetic.

Not at all.

Quote: TermNachTER

And so, organized resistance stopped on September 14th, i.e. - two weeks. Exactly as much as the Dutch.

If you consider according to your methodology, then the USSR fought only from 22.06 to 24.09.1941. Since that day the USSR ended the Soviet-German war (the Bolsheviks called it the Second World War), joining the WWII on the side of the Anglo-Saxons. And 2 in Europe ended 08.09.1941MB.

[TermNachTer]

I counted from the moment of the invasion of Germans on the territory of states to the end of the organized resistance of the armed forces of that state. If sclerosis doesn’t fail me, the Soviet-German war ended on May 9, 1945, in an old Slavic village - Berlin, which in one of the Slavic dialects means a dam for fish.

[e-sam]

Quote: TermNachTER

until the termination of organized resistance of the armed forces of this state.

This resistance ended on 08.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX in Berlin.
The Poles did not capitulate to the Germans.

Quote: TermNachTER

If sclerosis doesn’t fail me, the Soviet-German war ended on May 9, 1945, in the ancient Slavic village - Berlin

He will cheat on you. World War 2 in Europe ended on 08.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX

[TermNachTer]

Of course they did not capitulate, the capital of Poland is London, it was there that the government was located, which abandoned its country and its people.

[e-sam]

Quote: TermNachTER

it was there that the government that abandoned its country and its people was located.

Who told you that threw it?
In wartime, Poland was led by the commander in chief of its armed forces, Marshal Rydz-Smigly. He left Poland on September 17.09.1941, 2, after an attack on Poland by the USSR, ordering the Polish army to leave and intern in Romania. He gave the order precisely because the USSR attacked from the rear, and Poland could not fight on XNUMX fronts.
And the Polish government led Poland exclusively in peacetime. Those. until 01.09.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX. So it was all arranged for them.
At the same time, Poland did not capitulate to Germany. And in front of the USSR, too.

[TermNachTer]

Of course, she never capitulated to anyone, so she was divided four times.

[ssm]

No need to juggle. This is not good.
By the way, with all the sharing, Poland is still alive and will survive many of its eastern neighbors.

[TermNachTer]

What did I distort? This is the official story. These events are called the First, Second, etc. sections of Poland. Who will survive the difficult question, in 1939, Poland also hoped for its western allies, didn’t forget how it ended?

[3danimal]

Why Reich Chancellor? (Speech about the White House or the Senate?) Are the Nazis sitting there? And the US has a federal structure ...

[Amateur]

This is especially clear from comparing Typhoon with the latest models: Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II or Gust Dassault Aviation.

Have you come up with another "invisible"?

[Thrifty]

They decided to pump up Polyakhia with weapons and use it as a ram against Russia! All these preparations of polyakhia have only one goal - a military provocation on the border with Russia! Europe sees that such a "product" as Russophobia is disappearing from the side of the field. So why not use the anti-Russian rhetoric of the "apple empire" to your advantage? To fight against Russia with the hands of notorious Russophobes is several times cheaper than to go into such an adventure ourselves. Therefore, as soon as the Polyahia receives new aircraft, as soon as Europe "feeds" this tame dog with finances, the Polyahia will be called to war against Russia, with the secret support of the entire NATO bloc.

[Pessimist22]

Do the Poles really want to fight with Russia? Just Russophobia and the real war with Russia, these are two different things.

[Thrifty]

Pessimist 22-and who will ask them? If you invest in Russophobia, then you need to go all the way to force the Poles to arrange at least a military provocation against Russia. And further according to the plan, the United States will find a couple of hundred billion dollars so that Europe fights against Russia. The war in Europe is, in the first place, very necessary and beneficial precisely for the United States, but on the condition that the war does not come to American soil.

[bessmertniy]

Poles prefer to rake in the heat with someone else's hands. They are not in the first echelon, which the West is ready to throw "under the tanks" of the war with Russia. The first victims are the former Soviet republics, which have proven their Russophobia and are strapped to the military machine of the West.

[PSih2097]

Quote: bessmertniy

The former Soviet republics, having proved their Russophobia and strapped to the military machine of the West, are the first victims.

is it the Baltic states or what? how many armies do they have for three?

[bessmertniy]

Well, Ukraine and Georgia are also worth adding here.

[PSih2097]

none of you indicated will come to us, if only young-Europeans (EX-ATS) ...

[rocket757]

The usual development of a conventional combat aircraft, workhorse ... without a claim to exclusivity.

[certero]

Quote: Thrifty

They decided to pump Polyahia with weapons, and use it as a battering ram against Russia!

There will be no war. Russophobia is separate, and war is separate. As long as Russia has an "express delivery of heat and light" in the person of the Strategic Missile Forces, everything will be limited to words only.

[1536]

The Poles need to make the film Four Pilots and a Dog.

[Fantazer911]

No, better four zombies from the Poles

[cost]

four poles and litaka

[svp67]

I do not think that the Poles will now have the Eurofighters, rather the F-15 or F-18

[knn54]

And in order to buy an F-15 / F-18 at the lowest possible price, one must be "interested", in particular, in the Typhoon.

[svp67]

Quote: knn54

And in order to buy an F-15 / F-18 at the lowest possible price, one must be "interested", in particular, in the Typhoon.

It’s logical ... and better than the Su-30, then in general ...

[Zaurbek]

If the Poles are in the foreground in an attack on the Russian Federation, then F35 is needed ..

[svp67]

Quote: Zaurbek

If the Poles are in the foreground in an attack on the Russian Federation, then F35 is needed ..

Everything is needed. And this is in any case. Aircraft of generation "4" are the most powerful flying platforms, capable of inflicting such damage to the enemy with their weapons, which would require two, or even three F-35s.

[Zaurbek]

4th may not reach. Due to layered air defense of the Russian Federation.

[svp67]

Quote: Zaurbek

4th may not reach. Due to layered air defense of the Russian Federation.

Why fly? They will work from their territory. Fortunately there are plenty of missiles for various purposes.

[Zaurbek]

And to destroy bunkers and fortified objects with what? Stealth for this and did ... closer to fly away to launch a rocket. The first wave of the Kyrgyz Republic, the second stealth and the third wave of the 4th generation and F-35 with external arms.

[svp67]

Quote: Zaurbek

And to destroy bunkers and fortified objects with what?

Missiles and planning air bombs

Quote: Zaurbek

The first wave of the Kyrgyz Republic

And who are their carriers?

[Zaurbek]

B-2,52, Ships ... and anti-bunker bombs do not fly far.

[svp67]

Quote: Zaurbek

B-2,52, Ships ... and anti-bunker bombs do not fly far.

At least take a look at "Vika". the same "Eurofighter" is capable of using, for example, the Storm Shadow, Taurus, anti-ship missiles AGM-84 "Harpoon"

[Zaurbek]

Able .... at what distance and at what range? And how many planes will be shot down and when will they notice their massive take-off?

[svp67]

Quote: Zaurbek

Able .... at what distance and at what range?

Judging by Syria, where these CDs were used, the distance is quite large. Their planes did not enter the air defense zones

Quote: Zaurbek

And how many planes will be shot down and when will they notice their massive take-off?

They do not have to be knocked down, intellectually, they must also be destroyed at airfields ...
Oh, I wouldn’t like it to come to this

[Zaurbek]

So this is the difference between our air defense and the Syrian one, and therefore Tomogavki will be the first to go in the right quantity for each division of the S300 and 400 ..... and then the F35 will finish the rest with their own missiles.

[svp67]

Quote: Zaurbek

So this is the difference between our air defense and the Syrian one, and therefore Tomogavki will be the first to go in the right quantity for each division of the S300 and 400 ..... and then the F35 will finish the rest with their own missiles.

"Tomahawks" will be one of many in this raid. There will be a lot more.
And most importantly, they will not be the first.

[Zaurbek]

It depends on the task. If the task is to destroy our important goals and remain with minimal losses ourselves, then only Tomogavki and aviation. They even calculated that they needed 10-9000 pieces with different warheads and tactical and aviation systems and missile defense systems. and according to their own calculations, retaliatory launching was still carried out by nuclear submarines. And the task is to grovel at us and catch a retaliatory strike from all the guns - so-so entertainment. There is no such disagreement.

[Ax Matt]

And what is the article about? Typhoon is a very self-confident isovsekhsil modernized "yesterday". And then, what kind of "stealth" can we talk about on it and on Rafal? What kind of heresy? External suspension of everything and everyone! What is a stealth hair dryer? How do you compare the F-35 and the Rafale? Not competent ...

[Timx]

It's not just about the external (internal) suspension, actually .. Rafal has applied a whole range of measures to reduce EPR: radio-absorbing coatings, gilding of the cockpit canopy, widespread use of composites and glass and carbon fiber reinforced plastics ( more than 40% of the airframe surface - comparable to the F-22A), '' chevron '' (sawtooth) edges of panels and compartments, '' optimized '' shape of air intakes (non-adjustable), '' conformal '' (recessed into the fuselage) rocket suspension 'air-to-air', as well as an optimized form of 'air-to-surface' weapons + it is simply, in itself, very miniature .. - all this puts it in the category of aircraft with a 'lowered' RCS, such as the Saab Grippen , F-18E and the same F-35 with suspension of PTB or missiles outside. And in this regard, it is significantly ahead of the same F-15, Su-30-34-35, MiG-29M (35), Eurofighter Typhoon, as well as Japanese and Chinese crafts ...

[voyaka uh]

"as well as Japanese and Chinese crafts ..." ////
----
I agree with your post, except, in part, for the last sentence.
The Japanese produce licensed F-15 and F-16, which are not stealth at all - this is true.
But China has released, designed from scratch, pure stealth J-20.
And another stealth - an analogue of the F-35 - in trials.
----
The French are squeezing the maximum out of their Rafal. They have a choice, since
there is no fifth generation on its way.

[Timx]

I was referring to the Japanese F-2, in the design of which radio-absorbing coatings are used, the `` gilding '' of the cockpit canopy, and the percentage of the use of composites and carbon fiber reinforced plastics in the airframe skin has been significantly increased compared to the original prototype of this aircraft - Lockheed's F-16 Block. 40
And among the Chinese, I, first of all, consider the J-10, JF-17 models (which are at least somehow represented on the international market), as well as the numerous clones of the Russian Su-27-30-33-35, which they make especially for '' internal use '' ...
Still, the J-20 as well as the J-31 (which the Chinese themselves do not even have in the small series) are vehicles of a slightly different class and we are unlikely to see them in the near future on the world arms market.
Something like that

[voyaka uh]

The Americans have been "gilding" the cabins of their F-16s for a long time.
Not only on the F-22 and F-35 it is. This is not a new technology.
-----
To stealth was at the level of F-22 -35, the aircraft must be designed
from scratch. But also a partial decrease in the EPR in certain angles
in air battles will help. Efforts are not futile.
----
The Americans recently did special melee air force exercises.
F-35 vs F-16. In the ratio of one F-35 against two F-16, four F-16, five.
They taught the F-35 pilots how to survive in such "bear raids".
I mean, the 4th generation has a chance to fill up the 5th with quantitative
superiority and certain tactics.

[Timx]

the plane needs to be designed
from scratch

Alexei, that’s why I left the F-16 outside the brackets, that measures to reduce EPR to one degree or another are present in all currently produced combat aircraft [our Su-30-34-35, MiG-29K / M2 also have special coatings for the lantern (MiG-35), MiG-31BM, Tu-22M3M, Tu-160M ​​(M2) and other machines] - this will not surprise anyone now ..
At the same time, since the end of the 80s, a subclass of combat vehicles began to appear (conventionally referred to as the `` generation 4+ ''), in which measures to reduce the EPR were initially laid down, were `` harmoniously '' inscribed into the airframe design, without serious reduction of performance characteristics (like the F-117, B-2 and others) and having an acceptable (compared to the fifth generation) cost (and, most importantly, the cost of `` owning '' or `` life cycle '').
These include Dasso '' Rafal '', EF-2000 '' Typhoon '', Saab '' Gripen '', McDonnel-Douglas (now Boeing) F-18E / F / G '' Super Hornet '' and, in part, the Japanese F-2, Chinese J-10, Indian HAL Tejas, and the Israeli IAI Lavi project also had signs of a reduced ESR in the design of its airframe (which later formed the basis of the ideas of the Chinese J -ten)

[Ax Matt]

With what fright did the Typhoon suddenly become "miniature", and "40%" of the surfaces are similar to the F-35? Where are the corners and surfaces that form the principal radar signal withdrawal ?! Dear, "Typhoon" was designed in the mid-80s (as well as F-16, MiG-29 ...) according to the classic scheme with a delta wing of the "duck" type, run in the Mirages. Not to mention the Swedish Grippen, English Volcano and Valkyrie: with the classic lines of the generation "4" in low-wing. There can be no question of any "stealth" corners and technologies. All of the above are just attempts to lower the ESR. Although good attempts ... The classic fifth generation has weapons strictly inside! Not to mention hanging tanks! Or maybe he has the ability to cruise at supersonic speed? Or is there a passive radar mode? Well, don't be ridiculous ... gilding ... sawtooth edges ... Its direct competitors in performance characteristics are only "4 +" ... but at a cost per unit (130-140 million $ / piece !!!!) it is of course, only the F-35 has a competitor here ...

[Timx]

With what fright suddenly "Typhoon"became" miniature "

I seem to be quite specific - ''Rafale'',
no need to distort my words please

"40%" of surfaces are similar to F-35..

- and what is actually written in my post:

more than 40% of the airframe surface - comparable to F-22A .

It seems like it's high time for someone to `` start eating '' (sleep it over), and then try to take on `` analytics '' ...

Merry Christmas to you, dear!

[Sergej1972]

Why is the Kyrgyz troll provocateur still not banned?

[voyaka uh]

Try to save the Typhoon program from closing.
Only Germany plans to buy more Typhoons for its Air Force to
The assembly plant continued to work.
The remaining participants in the Typhoon program either bought the F-35 (England, Italy),
or look this way (Spain).

[Timx]

For Germany, it is now very important to maintain competencies (primarily qualified personnel) before the start of full-scale development and testing of prototypes of a new joint fighter with the French and Spanish (conditionally generation 5+). Otherwise, only the role of a `` donor '' awaits them: funds will flow from the German budget to the French and, in part, the Spaniards, and to develop their industry and science, pay for the work of specialists in these countries ...

[voyaka uh]

I understand the Germans. Engineers, jobs, etc.
But for them it would be very reasonable to buy a squadron or two
F-35 - for review at least. When designing your car
there was nothing to compare. Otherwise, without the experience of the 5th generation, it will turn out no better,
than Americans, and the same thing (or worse).
The Chinese bought a pair of Su-35 squadrons. Now they have a platform for
comparisons: "this must be done, like the Russians, but this must be changed ..."
. They will also buy a little Su-57, and again - there is nothing to compare.

[Timx]

Well, the German Bundeswehr does not have money to maintain its own vehicles (Tornado and Eurofighter) in a combat-ready state, and you offer them to buy up to a heap of F-35s))
And besides, in this program (if it takes place at all), France (the Dassault company and the Airbus Defense France division) will play the leading `` violin '', which over the past 60 years has developed its own aircraft building school ( in contrast to Germany, where after WWII the best aircraft designers were dragged to themselves by the United States and the `` allies '', and the rest just scattered around the world (Argentina, Chile, Brazil, India, Egypt, the same Spain and Italy) .That is why now it is clear (this can be seen from those layouts and graphics that the Dassault company has been demonstrating at air exhibitions for the last couple of years) that the future machine will have the traditional features of the `` French aircraft building school '' (primarily the `` tailless '' scheme), in which they will try, as always as concisely as possible and with their inherent '' charm '' and '' sense of style '', to enter the modern achievements of the world aircraft industry (internal cargo compartments, shielding of engine compressors with airframe design elements, '' low-emission '' vertical tail and engine nozzles).
Their aircraft will be much closer in appearance to the future British-Italian fighter BAе Systems' 'Tempest' 'than to such aircraft as the F-22 and F-35 (normal aerodynamic design) and the Russian C-57 (normal design or' 'hidden triplane' is a Sukhoi trick that very few people still notice )

[Timx]

As for the possibility of “borrowing” something or taking into account the experience of operating the F-35, they have “comrades-in-arms and partners in NATO” for that in the face of neighboring Belgium and Italy (for France) and Norway, and in the near future is also obvious for Denmark and the Netherlands (for Germany), which, within the framework of the alliance, are simply obliged share experience with alliance partners)) It is foolish not to use this opportunity, and even practically free, deducting money every year for the maintenance of this very `` NATO '')))

[voyaka uh]

Tornado decommission, in my opinion?
German pilots need to fly on the F-35 and compare.
Actually, they already did this in 2018, and the Air Force commander said that
The Air Force wants the F-35. He was immediately fired for "unpatriotism" towards
to domestic industry.
State interests do not always coincide with the military.

[Timx]

I do not know how they will write off the Tornado (I mean reconnaissance and electronic warfare modifications, they have interceptors for a long time in reserve - purely for quantity, like Italy, Great Britain and Arabia, however), if in the Bundeswehr. '' Typhoons '' in a fit for flight and 2 full-fledged regiments are not recruited)))

[Timx]

So, the Bundeswehr has no trivial means to maintain long-purchased cars, and you offer them to fork out more and the F-35 - another new type with the additional costs for the life cycle, staff training, and the purchase of equipment (diagnostic and repair) ... This is an extremely dubious idea, especially for extremely pragmatic and prudent Germans.
PS If you really want to see your favorite F-35 with a swastika on board, then there is an option for renting an F-35A squadron, for example, from Israel))) And what, you give them an F-35A, and they will repair and modernize you in return submarines in their shipyards, which were built in Germany)) How do you like barter? And what, I think, and the United States will not particularly object - such advertising for their aircraft (and even inside the NATO alliance - secrecy is respected)) and almost free (well, except for repainting, and changing part of communication systems (state recognition))) In addition, Israel already has a similar experience: the well-known deal with Italy on the exchange (barter) of UTS M-346 Master for Israeli-made AWACS aircraft - it seems that all parties were satisfied, no one complains
PPS
It was a joke of humor , if that)) Happy holidays to you.

[voyaka uh]

Taillessness is basically correct.
And the Americans are going to this. Since F-35 and F-22 dissolve remarkably on
centimeter radars, but glow on meter. Due to the tail.
The ideal is Raider, their future bomber. He is a stealth in all radio bands accepted in the army.
But there is a problem with maneuverability. Here it will be necessary to puzzle.