Military Review

Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail

371

Soviet and Russian "aerospace"



Actually, the Soviet aerospace industry was the pride of the country (although, unfortunately, most of its achievements were kept secret then). But hundreds of rockets launched into space, and new planes (of various classes) were created quite regularly. And all this was, and all this worked, and now (ex post) we can be proud of it.

Not to say that all this always worked like a clock, accidents happened, and failures did happen, but the plus clearly outweighed the minus. Both missiles and planes could be proud of. And they did a lot of them, and they flew very often. But further (already in "independent Russia"), non-childish problems began. Suddenly launched vehicles stopped entering calculated orbits.

Simply put, rockets began to fall. And this began to happen very long before Rogozin. And each time an investigation, trial ... allegedly measures were taken. And with the design of new rocket carriers and ballistic missiles, non-childish problems arose. It is enough to recall the epic with the "Mace". By the way, how did it end there? And is it over? That is, we suddenly came up against the fact that a new promising missile for submarine launch vehicles simply does not fly.

And there were scandals, and there were improvements, and there were proceedings. And launched spacecraft both fell and continue to fall. Instead of going into calculated orbits. The attempt to construct and produce new “Russian” aircraft also faced gigantic problems. The first post-Soviet transport aircraft Il-112 was not a masterpiece. Like the first post-Soviet civilian Superjet-100.

No, just in comparison with the Soviet era, with advertising and PR, now everything is in order with us. Promote and advertise. And create an impression. But everyone already understands that things in the Russian "aerospace" are not just worse, but, so to speak, much worse. None of the “overframes” of Roscosmos or the KLA led to anything positive.

To the "newly created" "IL-112" and "Superjet" there are a million questions precisely on the design side. The planes are, in theory, not the most complex and not the most secret (why I do not mention all kinds of Su-57 there). "Passage" aircraft. Just a short-haul liner and just an easy transporter, but "something went wrong."

Now, if this is taken separately, then yes, something can be explained and justified. But if you take everything together ... then the picture looms not very joyful. That is, one involuntarily has to ask a question: what about the aerospace industry in general? No, past achievements and developments are great, but what can Russia do today in this area?

Selfish question


There is still a certain misunderstanding of the reasons for the Soviet breakthrough, first in aviation, and then in the space sphere. There everything about the "enthusiasm of the masses" and the "planned economy" are being pushed. But not everything was so simple. In Soviet times, the most intelligent, sensible and competent people worked in this area, so to speak. And this was achieved quite simply - there were no special alternatives: you won’t leave for America, you won’t open a business, there were no Gazprom then.

Often, for a talented person (and technically competent), one sphere opened up - the defense industry. And there they paid more and gave a lot of money for “research”. And to develop new technology. If civilian factories / civilian products were often outdated, this could not be allowed in the defense industry.

Therefore, new equipment, and new technologies, and new developments. And the salary is higher. But all this was then. After 1991, the situation radically “turned around”. I understand, trite and beaten. And everyone knows about it, and everyone on this topic "trampled down."

However ... however, somehow quite obvious things remain behind the scenes. There was no “Soviet magic”, it was just that money was sacked into the “aerospace”. Well, there was a competent guide, and asked in full. Those who decided to work “according to the Soviet scheme” after the 91st year, firstly, did not understand the meaning and essence of this scheme, and secondly, absolutely did not understand the basic principles of capitalism. And in any case, they did not understand that it was impossible to combine the incompatible.

But both there and there (both under American capitalism and under the Soviet system), a significant part of the expenditures was spent on the training and payment of highly qualified personnel. And now we can’t get away from this, and fate cannot be deceived here. It is long, difficult and expensive to prepare a highly qualified specialist. And for five cents he will not work. This was true for both Roosevelt and Stalin. There is no “propaganda” and no “social justice” here. Clean economy.

To create a rocket / satellite / aircraft, you need a lot of highly qualified and very narrow specialists. And this restriction cannot be circumvented and cannot be deceived. When leaving the industry, these personnel lose their skills very quickly, and preparing new ones takes many years and costs a lot of money. That is, gaining a shift “because of the fence” is impossible and no one will succeed. Such frames themselves do not arise. They must be prepared, and then held. Than? Material goods! What do you want?

Thus, the salary of such citizens should be much higher than the "average for the hospital", and regardless of the availability of orders. Whether you like it or not. Under the USSR, there were no problems with this. Physics schools worked, there were strong technical universities (world-class and above!), And all this was fairly well funded. That is, at first they selected the best, then they were perfectly prepared, then they were sent to "forge the shield of the state." Well, civil aviation got it, although almost all of space was military.

With the introduction of the market, everything changed dramatically. But not the principles of tomorrow's technology. To do this, you still need the best of the best. And in the yard is the market and commerce ...

So you have to pay, someone very naive will say ... Someone who does not understand the features of the Russian economy and social structure.

In Russia it is not accepted to pay for qualifications


This is somehow the case. Not accepted, and that's it! We do not like this topic. Neither in the engineering sphere, nor in the teaching, nor in the design, nor in any. It is customary for us to pay for our position, as happened historically. Under the so-called market economy, “non-targeted expenses” began to be cut in the first place: salaries and social expenses. And the market leveling for ordinary employees has flourished with lush color: almost everyone is paid equally little.

As a result, the most intelligent and skilled ones began to scatter. That is, if a person only knows how to "sit on a chair beautifully" and agree with the bosses in everything, then such "salaries" could be kept, but competent specialists began to scatter in different directions, who was in business and who was abroad.

With the speed of sound scatter. Once again, I would like to emphasize that aerospace is not for everyone. Here we need selected personnel. If you recruit people "by announcement", then there will be no result. A good engineer for the aerospace industry must be prepared from a good student from the first year. About ten years, including the basics of practical work.

And the funny thing is: he does not have to "run away", otherwise the whole system will break. These are piece specialists, they won’t be able to cook them. You need to start with high school students, choosing the most intelligent. Strictly speaking, this was the case under the USSR. Which provided the results.

Yes, you can teach anyone to sell sugar or plumbing (if he has a sales talent). In a short time to teach. With the design and manufacture of aircraft, such tricks do not work. Not in three months, nor in three years it will be possible to prepare a specialist from scratch. And not every one can prepare an aircraft designer or a designer of space technology. Because "not only everything," few people ... You can’t prepare a specialist in assembling such devices in a month from the first one you meet.

And what needs to be done in a market economy to achieve all these goals? And to pay a lot of money, much more than the average "manager". No other way. A person who has chosen such a path should be clearly sure that in this area he will earn many times more than working “in sales” or in the market. Otherwise, it's just not worth it all to start.

And it’s up to the ordinary performer to pay a lot of money. As you know, Mr. Rogozin receives a salary more ... than the head of NASA. And this cannot but rejoice. The trouble is that the ordinary specialist of Roscosmos receives 10 times less than his American counterpart of similar qualifications. And, unlike the times of the USSR, they live in the same economic system. Want to get an apartment? Take a mortgage!

From personal experience: I talked with a Frenchwoman, whose brother went to work just in the aerospace industry (the guy had a talent for mathematics), and so, and his salary ... almost like a Martian. A joke, of course. That is, more so than that of an ordinary Frenchman, that it makes no sense to envy. Absolutely different money. And there is no sense in “twitching” to him. Outside of his qualifications, he nowhere it won’t work that much. “Leaving to trade plumbing” is simply silly for him. And even the "social package" is present with him. And there is a union (real!).

The man "on the social elevator" goes high up. Do not believe? And you are doing it right! It’s not accepted here! From the word “completely” and from the word “never”! You can design rockets, but you can sell toilet bowls, your “waste” will be “in the first approximation” approximately the same. If not less in the first case. Yes, and "under Stalin" this was not. That is why "under Stalin" there were new airplanes.

But, as already mentioned, it is customary for us to pay “for the position”. And in almost any field today there is a huge gap between, for example, an ordinary teacher / doctor and director. And this does not surprise anyone. In France, a high-level practitioner (not to mention America!) Can receive much more as a result than his boss - a “pure administrator”. Because the approach is different. Because it is he who makes money for the company. It’s not customary to talk like that here. The authorities - it is sacred, like a reflection of a high fire ...

Why is it so


As a matter of fact, all this is the heavy legacy of too late feudalism. Late in our country serfdom was abolished. And after that there were not so many economic freedoms. As a result, what happened is what happened. That is, to be a competent specialist we economically unprofitable, profitable to be the boss. That is, I'm not talking about “social” justice, I'm talking about high-tech in the post-feudal system of relations.

In medieval Europe, it was also much more profitable to be an "ordinary baron" than an ingenious merchant or a skilled craftsman. But because! The system was like that. Then this system (with blood!) Was broken. And a completely different system of relations was created (for them). Less hierarchical and more market. Europe was moving away from feudalism very hard and painfully. It cost her many wars, revolutions and sacrifices. But she left feudalism.

Overall. At least the developed and rich countries of the north-west of Europe. And those countries that did not carry out this “execution”, for example, Spain or southern Italy, were very seriously behind in the same economy and technology. Hopelessly behind. As far back as the 16th century, Spain and Turkey were the world's mega-powers, before which Europe trembled. In the 17th century, they literally came to naught. Because they could not “overcome" feudalism. Or didn’t want to.

The reason for the sudden (for Russia) rise of Japan at the end of the 19th century was just an extremely harsh rejection of feudalism. No, the “birthmarks” of feudalism they have remained above the roof, but in 1904-1905. they brought a number of surprises to the Russian Empire. If only because they resolutely abandoned "sweets, sheep ..." and various other delights of feudalism. "Samurai" was going on there extremely hard. But Nicholas II, even after the defeat from Japan, was not ready for such a decisive reversal (nobles, large landowners - the support of the throne).

The situation, when everything is measured not in money and efficiency, but in posts, statuses and titles (and the number of subordinates!) - this is largely just feudalism. As a matter of fact, thousands and thousands of world-class scientists and engineers have left the Russian Empire, the USSR, and the Russian Federation. They left for the West. To the “godly” and “immoral” West. The authorities are sitting upright and demonstrating "patriotism."

It was in the 2010s that the scientific and technological failure in Russia finally became clear. Airplanes do not work, and rockets fall. And the general designer of Ilyushin Design Bureau is broadcasting something about "weak designers." Which, for obvious reasons, are not very burning to work for a very modest salary by modern standards. And if the plane is designed by anyone and anyhow, then it flies “accordingly”. In our system of hierarchical distribution of resources, pennies reach the ordinary performer (albeit a highly qualified one).

In principle, when digging irrigation ditches, laying roads and building fortress walls, such a scheme works for itself. When designing modern technology, such a system refuses to work fundamentally. Once again: in the USSR (a successful example from the point of view of patriots) people were fed well and were not allowed abroad. In principle, in the late USSR in the “aerospace” there was also a swollen pyramid (far from being so terrible in inequality), but it was well supplied due to the capabilities of a superpower, and the ordinary performer was motivated. Today, enterprise directors in unison complain of a lack of workers. There is a certain cunning here: the number of people who want to do highly qualified work for the salary of a garbage collector is constantly and rapidly decreasing.

Nobody wants to work on CNC machines worth a million euros and get twenty thousand rubles. It is not interesting. And directors literally cry in a voice. And why the salary is scanty? And because the money distribution system is classic feudal. And the income of the machinist is formed “by the residual principle”. And those who want to participate in this attraction of unprecedented generosity are becoming less and less.

Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not! And the director of a large plant could not bathe in luxury against the background of hungry turners and technologists. Therefore, the result was. Disappointing results in medicine and education are less noticeable. But planes and missiles ... you can’t hide it. In fact, it’s not just the new, the old, and the alien that are being exploited with difficulty.

Soviet-designed missiles are falling. That is, for a long time already known technology does not work. And the Boeings and Airbuses of the Russian GA are falling, which in Europe, the States and China (!) Have much less accident rate. The Russian GA has a breakdown rate at a level far from the European one. And such a system, they save on everything. And on staff salaries (not superiors!), And on training, and on maintenance, and on fuel. And the status of the FAC in Russia and Europe is very, very different. They do not save, however, on PR, especially after the next: "The human factor is to blame."

And here the transcendental "patriotism" and the search for enemies and pests are already beginning. Meanwhile, the systemic crisis of the Russian “aerospace” is a sure sign of a mismatch between the production relations necessary for high technology and the existing social system. The British and Russians built industry at the beginning of the 18th century in parallel (!). But the British widely introduced steam engines, and the Russians - in-place serfs. After a century and a half, the results showed themselves in all its glory just off the coast (and on the coast) of Crimea, so beloved by our patriots.

Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail
Author:
Photos used:
mtdata.ru
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  1. Recon
    Recon 4 January 2020 04: 44
    -65
    Well, yes, the author, everything is bad, they have broken-broke. I read this a hundred times, I saw nothing new. And what's the point in the article? Who is to blame is understandable. Would you rather suggest specifically what to do? Your thoughts
    1. eklmn
      eklmn 4 January 2020 05: 39
      +81
      “Would you rather suggest specifically what to do? Your thoughts? ”
      Recon, do not pretend, please, you know perfectly well what to do! Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons. And not that in a couple of years they will castling again. And do not blame on the “dashing 90s”! 30 years have passed since then, for a long time it was necessary to restore order.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. krops777
          krops777 4 January 2020 14: 38
          +12
          Further, how many rockets did Roskosmos lose this year?


          I will reveal a terrible secret for some for 2019 and 2020 - not one. tongue
          1. Karaul73
            Karaul73 5 January 2020 06: 34
            -2
            And how many missiles were launched?
          2. military pensioner
            military pensioner 10 January 2020 09: 38
            0
            In 2020, only 10 days passed. And this is not a secret, but a fact.
        2. nickname7
          nickname7 4 January 2020 20: 35
          +16
          Next, how many rockets Roskosmos lost this year

          What does the loss of missiles have to do with it? An article about aerospace and industry that makes airplanes.
          Boeing delivered 763 aircraft to customers in 2017
          The KLA previously predicted that from 2017 to 2036, 41 civilian aircraft with a total value of $ 800 trillion will be sold in the world. According to Boeing's forecast, in the next 5,7 years, global airlines will need 20 airliners with a total value of $ 41 trillion. Airbus expects delivery of 030 new passenger and 6,1 cargo aircraft with a total catalog value of $ 34 trillion.
          Question to fox, how many aircraft did the Russian Federation make? If the Russian Federation itself flies to used junk from abroad.
          1. maidan.izrailovich
            maidan.izrailovich 5 January 2020 05: 04
            -4
            nickname 7 (Eugene
            What does the loss of missiles have to do with it? Article about ...

            Yes, because the first part of the title is about this.
            Why do our rockets falland planes fail

            ... and further in the text:
            Airplanes do not work, but rockets fall

            Move on....
            nickname 7 (Eugene
            Boeing delivered 763 aircraft to customers in 2017

            Well, sucks to do, a lot of mind is not necessary.
            Trump has banned all flights of the Boeing 737 MAX https://ria.ru/20190314/1551773295.html
            And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Which you can’t hide anymore. In fact, there are complaints about almost all of Boeing’s civilian products. But since the United States controls the world's major media, the information is not moving.
            Back to the falling missiles.
            After the termination of shuttle flights, the Americans are doing everything to return to independent manned flights. But things are still there. And mainly due to accidents of the tested equipment.
            You can still talk about the failures of the Indians, Japanese, etc. etc.
            But back to the essence of the article.
            In my opinion, biased article... Judging by what is stated in the article, Russia alone is "eating soup with bast shoes", and all around "D'Artagnana".
            Of course I wanted the missiles not to fall and our planes to fly everywhere. And whose rockets do not fall? Missiles also fell in the USSR.
            The article is similar to an order. You can write the same exact article about the US aerospace industry. And believe me, you won’t have to invent anything, only facts.
          2. BastaKarapuzik And
            BastaKarapuzik And 5 January 2020 11: 50
            +4
            how many airplanes did rf make?

            USSR made products for its closed market. Firstly, it was a larger market than the existing market of the CIS countries taken separately. And the key word is closed.
            Is it really necessary to clarify this?
            If we now had a closed market for aviation products, we would fly our own aircraft, but this would be even less justified economically. Well, not every country in the world produces planes in general, and this is too softly said. Around the world, more or less serious manufacturers of liners on the fingers count, one hand is enough. In order to produce everything for yourself, you need to have a larger population, 150 million population of the Russian Federation is too small for this.
            Someone has calculated that you need at least 350 people, then you can completely withdraw into your market and do everything for yourself inside the country. But such a population was not during the Union, although it was still much easier. This also applies to military products, but to a much lesser extent. We mainly produce our military products ourselves, but even there are imported components and they are difficult, although they still need to be replaced in the future.

            I really did not like the title, it is too manipulative, it catches the eye.
            I didn’t even want to read it, but after running through the comments, I still had to get acquainted with the content.
            The question is raised correctly, but many have long known this. However, it was in vain to idealize the wage system in the USSR, especially the late period, the USSR system would not work in an open economy and it had many shortcomings. Advantages did not outweigh these shortcomings.
            There was a shortage of managerial personnel, I worked at a city-forming enterprise, where more than 10 people worked, and so, over the course of several years, eight craftsmen changed, more experienced and intelligent, sitting on working specialties and did not want to move up. Is it normal? What does such a system lead to? To the fact that there are those who would not have to go upstairs. They come either those who are not able to take the post of a good specialist, or with the intention of getting closer to some good workaround. This does not bode well. And, let's say, under Stalin there was a completely different system! The question is, who and whose legacy has eaten up and is eating up?

            There is one conclusion. The article is evil, manipulation is everywhere and open misinformation. Why misinformation, it seems right about pay? But because it is served too one-sided.
            And this is a lie. Partially correct, everything is twisted, it seems to be true, but much is not covered, frankly hidden. Deficiencies stick out, virtues are not noticed, or vice versa, depending on the goals pursued.
            Just like in modern media
            1. UAZ 452
              UAZ 452 7 January 2020 01: 40
              -2
              This is so: it is completely forgotten that in the defense industry, to which space belonged, and most of the aviation industry, they deliberately deviated from the model adopted in the rest of the Soviet economy, in particular, competition was not only allowed but encouraged. The bosses did not receive (the stupid Soviet synonym for "earned", which well demonstrates the distortions in the minds of the then Soviet people) much more workers, which contributed to the crisis of professionalism of management personnel, but engineering and technical personnel everywhere, except the defense industry, found themselves on the sidelines of the holiday of the life of the proletarian state. With all the ensuing consequences described.
              1. BastaKarapuzik And
                BastaKarapuzik And 8 January 2020 11: 03
                0
                All the time they are trying to compare the achievements of the late USSR with modern Russia, as if not noticing the big difference in status and condition.
                As if we had not lost territory, industry, population.
                and:
                -leakings of capital, in principle, do not exist
                - society is not sick of liberalism, capitalism, etc.
                - generally a monolithic society, unity of opinion in everything
                -Media is exclusively patriotic and strictly controlled
                - what is the fifth column, what are you ?!
                - domestic market is fully protected
                -leakage of labor, brains do not exist
                population savings only in rubles
                - for oil, by the way, we get in rubles
                -... gold as a last resort
                Ruble is the main world currency, and most importantly independent
                -USA is one of the holders of our debt obligations
                -we are not under sanction pressure
                -number of goods turnover with Ukraine and so on
                - there is no information war
                - there is no longer a war with the use of the army of the Russian Federation
                Third world war is impossible at all, are you crazy?
                - around peaceful, friendly neighbors
                - threats to the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation do not exist
                - the guarantor of Russia's sovereignty is specifically the United States and NATO as a whole
                -.... and he didn’t set up a base under our borders
                - there is prosperity and grace on the planet everywhere
                = etc etc etc ...

                PS USSR also did not sell oil for rubles
        3. Skifotavr
          Skifotavr 4 January 2020 22: 36
          +6
          Quote: Alex Fox
          YOU extraterrestrial dol ... do not even know how to count what 30 years.

          Yes, not 30, but 29. This, of course, changes everything. It is a pity that for mathematics they do not give the Nobel Prize. wink
          1. kot28.ru
            kot28.ru 5 January 2020 05: 04
            +1
            But to be more precise, then ... 19 :))) 29 years ago it was January 5, 1991.
        4. Aleksandre
          Aleksandre 5 January 2020 01: 19
          0
          Of this years, only the fifth day as it began, be patient)
      2. krot
        krot 4 January 2020 13: 15
        -19
        Isn't the article a provocation? ) He doesn’t like Crimea .. Our planes suddenly became bad, and the missiles sank, only the United States is still flying on our missiles, and Elon Mask’s rackets also plow regularly)
        And I will say why our planes did not work well in the 90s. After the privatization of Yeltsin and his assistants from the CIA, for some reason, the strategic enterprises of the aviation industry became joint-stock companies in which the same Americans held controlling stakes. And they sabotaged all new issues of aircraft, and all the rational activity of industry ..
        Is it easy to recover in 10 years? That's what the Chinese are so eager to get Motor Sich, where Soviet technology is even) To raise the level of aircraft engine building at least a little. For 30 years of growth, they have not reached such technologies. Apparently it’s not so simple.
        But why for so long, we all need everything right away ..) As in Ivan’s tale, I’m a fool, according to my command ..)
        May I ask a question to the author?
        1. l7yzo
          l7yzo 4 January 2020 16: 07
          +15
          About China - they need technological chains, not technologies. USSR technologies were successfully sold. They (the Chinese) poorly studied the theory of materials and alloys)))
          Do not touch the mask - for 5 years, the shuttles turned out for him (moreover, the nasa asked for 5 times more money and 2 times more time for the same). And we still do not fly from the East. Do you know why? You need to make launches - there are so many coefficients in the calculations, which are obtained experimentally. And the mask falls, and this is normal, in the tips they also fell. In general, from the first 10 launches 4-5 are successful - consider it is a breakthrough. So after 20 starts, it runs in and already goes to working launches. so that Mask is already on the way. And the fact that until now the Americans are buying from us engines of 80 years for launches - so they are always insured. They will buy them for a long time, even if they will not be used.
      3. Arkon
        Arkon 4 January 2020 16: 24
        -11
        Quote: eklmn
        do not pretend, please, you perfectly know what to do! Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons. And not that in a couple of years they will castling again.


        Well, thank God, at least you openly wrote everything. smile The point is, it turns out not in "planes and tanks", especially since with them, just, everything is quite good. And not even in "factories-factories", because they are being built too, but in a banal revolutionary itch: I want the power to be overthrown! Well, don't open your mouth too much. We will not give you the power to destroy. wink
        1. eklmn
          eklmn 4 January 2020 17: 28
          +9
          “... I want the power to be deposed! Well, you really don’t open your mouth. We will not give you the power to destroy. ”
          Nobody is going to destroy power; you have a jumble of concepts! Power was destroyed by the February Revolution, power was changed by "glasnost" and perestroika. " Now in Russia there is democratic power, popular. There are elections and courts are working. But people in power need not only to be changed, but also necessary! Here, in this article, the author very correctly describes the collapse of one of the most “proud” industries. But the fact is that rockets / planes are the quintessence of a healthy economy and science. If somewhere subtly, then there is a break. And now the Russian economy and science are sick. The author of the article writes correctly about salaries, and this has to do with science and the economy. Indeed, on Russian sites complaints flow - medicine, medicine, housing, prices, salaries ... - the economy is sick!
          Recently Rogozin, in a frenzy of jealousy, urged Russian Musk fans not to “jump / jump” like the young engineers of Musk's MCC, but they jumped / shouted / rejoiced naturally, like boys, without an order!
          And they were happy! And Rogozin is envious! His engineers will not jump / jump, they are gloomy, and there is something for that.
          Andrey, gallery owners need to be changed. Not the power to change, but people for whom the power has become a persistently monotonous constant lifestyle. But they are elected, servants, so to speak! I understand that you are a patriot and can do without medicine and eat pasta 3 times a day, if only the country ... (hereinafter the text is familiar to you). But young people, aged 18-24, they are also patriots, but for some reason 40% -50% want to leave the country. Why is that? I know, but I won’t say ...
          1. Arkon
            Arkon 4 January 2020 17: 41
            -12
            Quote: eklmn
            Indeed, on Russian sites complaints flow - medicine, medicine, housing, prices, salaries ... - the economy is sick!

            Quote: eklmn
            But young people, aged 18-24, they are also patriots, but for some reason 40% -50% want to leave the country.


            You are operating with false data. And from them you draw false conclusions. Let's start with data. Here you are writing about abstract "Russian sites" on which "complaints are flooding" and from this you conclude that the economy is sick. Don't you think the logical connection itself is strange: complaints on the website are a diagnosis of the economy? after all, according to this logic, I can easily find the same sites in any country on the planet Earth and draw a similar conclusion. So? This is actually called manipulation.
            Well, about 40-50%, just provide a data source and we will discuss it.
            1. eklmn
              eklmn 4 January 2020 19: 05
              +9
              Andrey, if I want to answer someone, then I do not ask the question “where did you get this”. I go to Google and rummage there.
              Google asked “how many young people want to leave Russia” and Google answered
              As of April 2019, more than 40% are between 18-24.
              https://www.dw.com/ru/более-40-процентов-российской-молодежи-готовы-уехать-из-страны/a-47350846

              “Here you are writing about abstract“ Russian sites ”on which there are“ flood complaints ”and from this you conclude that the economy is sick”
              Andrei, your last name is not Peskov by chance, what's in the Kremlin?
              It may not be up to date, but even this article (did you read it?) Gives an idea of ​​how the industry is launched. And even Russian ministers and deputies (sometimes!) Say that not everything is safe in the “Danish kingdom”.
              Even this circus, the “straight line” where people complain about the roof / salary / no_drugs - is the economy healthy? 30% without gas (and do not ask me to give a source, find it yourself!) - is this also a healthy economy?
              “Well, about 40-50%, just provide a data source and we will discuss it.”
              We will not discuss the source, as “He is paid”, “agent”, “you cannot believe” ...
              1. Arkon
                Arkon 4 January 2020 19: 28
                -6
                Quote: eklmn
                We will not discuss the source, as “He is paid”, “agent”, “you cannot believe” ...


                And what, it is impossible to discuss, in your opinion? Or do you think that foreign sources tell the truth about Russia? Well, then read what they write about Crimea or the Russian outback and compare with the surrounding space. Let's read what they write about the Skripals, Aleppo, "state doping". Do you take all this at its word? Then you are absolutely right, from your (and the enemy's) point of view, calling for the overthrow of the Russian government. I, too, would overthrow such ghouls. Yes, just not everything is as simple as you think.

                Here and in the figures ... The same Deutsche Welle, to which you refer is what he writes about Germany:
                “Many Germans dream of leaving Germany at least temporarily, and some even forever. According to a poll published in Berlin by the YouGov Institute for Public Opinion Research, every second German citizen is ready to become an emigrant. The desire to leave and settle temporarily or permanently abroad was expressed as stated in the report, 55 percent of participants in a representative study. "
                https://www.dw.com/ru/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%83-%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0-%D0%B8%D0%B7-%D0%B3%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D1%83%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B6%D0%B0%D1%8E%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%86%D1%8B/a-45838843

                How so ?! Really there Putin reached out and drives Germans from Germany ?!
                1. eklmn
                  eklmn 4 January 2020 19: 33
                  +2
                  I put you Plus for the time you spent ...
                2. DDT
                  DDT 5 January 2020 00: 17
                  -1
                  Many Germans dream of leaving Germany at least temporarily, and some even forever. As follows from a survey published in Berlin by the YouGov Institute of Public Opinion Research, every second German resident is ready to become an emigrant. The desire to leave and settle temporarily or permanently abroad was expressed, as indicated in the report, by 55 percent of the participants in the representative study.

                  Arkon, please tell me, are you adequate? Because, in Germany, EVERYONE is interviewed. Me, including an Uzbek. For example, last week I was kidding, told me from Japan and that I was sleeping and seeing how I would leave Germany ... And in Russia, these "agencies" only interrogate Russians. You wishful thinking, if you give it out, then who will it make it easier?
                  1. Arkon
                    Arkon 6 January 2020 10: 45
                    0
                    Quote: DDT
                    And in Russia, these "agencies" only interview Russians.


                    Polling technique:
                    “The usual task is to interview 20-50 people who are constantly registered in some district or constituency,” Alexey told MK. - There are restrictions on gender and age. For example, 8 women from 60 to 90 years old, 5 women from 45 to 59 years old, 4 men from 25 to 44 years old.

                    They give me a tablet, a questionnaire form is entered into it. With this tablet, I go to a given area.

                    The interviewer is not limited in the choice of a specific place for the survey. The best place is the district supermarket. In the morning, pensioners and mothers with children respond well in the yards. ”


                    What are the "Russians"? What are you carrying?
          2. Alf
            Alf 4 January 2020 18: 20
            +12
            Quote: eklmn
            There are elections and courts are working.

            There is something they are ..
          3. syndicalist
            syndicalist 5 January 2020 08: 10
            +10
            Quote: eklmn
            Now in Russia there is democratic power, popular. There are elections and courts are working.

            Now it was very funny!
        2. The comment was deleted.
      4. ultra
        ultra 4 January 2020 20: 06
        +4
        Quote: eklmn
        Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons.

        If only it were that simple.
      5. Goldmoskit
        Goldmoskit 4 January 2020 22: 00
        +14
        Will not help. The Soviet system has been destroyed, and in exchange nothing has been created in 30 years to continue the scientific and technological revolution. This is a huge gap even in simple transmission and preservation of the design school. A trivial example: there seems to be a design bureau with a team that can design a civilian ship, but there are no design bureaus and enterprises that can design and test a corny chassis, a hydraulic system with hydraulic pumps., Actuators, hydraulic accumulators, sensors, alarms and automation. And this applies to all sectors of the economy. And the responsibility lies banally with the government. There is a saying: "the fish rots from the head."
        1. telobezumnoe
          telobezumnoe 4 January 2020 23: 16
          -6
          the article is nonsense, and the money flows into it immeasurably, and the exhaust is getting smaller, and this is because efficient managers and managers are running to the feeder, and geeks who work not for a lot of money, but just because they are interested in this topic, and without a lot of money they’re ready to do this, but it’s not they who make and manage decisions, but those who want to learn and earn more ... they don’t care what to do, if only they pay more and do it on the hell, the main thing is not to move them away and geeks of narrow specialists they will exploit in the way that is more convenient for them, and there aren’t enough narrow specialists, in principle, it’s possible to teach many for a long time already geniuses in those places do not solve anything, but they lack just a wide profile that could unite everything these technologies, understand all their subtleties, and develop the most critical areas that will give a quantum leap. these are precisely those who are not, and in these places managers who do not care in what area to manage, they force people to work there even shifting from empty to empty. it is precisely such a selection of cadres now in my opinion in any management verticals in our country
        2. Chaldon48
          Chaldon48 5 January 2020 04: 21
          -11
          "The fish rots from the head", so buy fish without a head. You mean the country's leadership, well who and how rotten (evidence-based), do you know who it is desirable to replace them with and why are they better?
          1. syndicalist
            syndicalist 5 January 2020 09: 10
            +7
            . who and how rotten (evidence)

            And the reliability of evidence must certainly be confirmed by the court. Is not it?
            Do you seriously imagine such a court? Who will impartially interrogate the defendants, the same Putin?
            1. Chaldon48
              Chaldon48 5 January 2020 11: 33
              +1
              I’m not a fortuneteller, and alas, not a grandmaster capable of calculating many moves ahead, but I don’t like judgments not supported by sound arguments, as well as about people and about business
          2. Goldmoskit
            Goldmoskit 7 January 2020 17: 41
            0
            Well, for example, Primakov.
      6. grave
        grave 4 January 2020 22: 45
        +14
        Do not put things in order, it's too late. Indeed, even places are received according to the hereditary principle. Dad is the son of granddaughters and everyone is wise as child prodigies. This is an immersion in hard feudalism and money-grubbing. This, by definition, can never be cured, it should be cut out in theory with as metastasis. Whether we want it or not, otherwise NO
      7. Dimmedroll
        Dimmedroll 6 January 2020 14: 08
        0
        Well, the couple is only 18 years old. But essentially. it will not change anything. Because as early as 90, our patrons were western, almost ate our entire aviation industry. Dimon, of course, finished off, but then again, the requests of our partners they do not need competitors. And then no one knows what to do. Since for a long time there have been Western investors in all these sectors.
      8. Alexey LK
        Alexey LK 9 January 2020 00: 42
        0
        Quote: eklmn
        and lover to watch cartoons

        Please note, cartoons are just about rockets, etc. But no one can do everything on their own well, and rockets, and cartoons. Who studied what. Well, if you have anything to say about missiles - just say so, you were asked. Only in the case: to develop the Angara, or to modernize the Proton, Baikonur or Vostochny, whether the state needs to help the Sea Launch with budget money, how it is better for the carrier to do what to do with the ISS, etc., and most importantly - what are the arguments. And you and your kind only know - to change, kick out ... And who in return, at least tell me?
        1. eklmn
          eklmn 9 January 2020 04: 34
          +1
          “Would you rather suggest specifically what to do? Your thoughts? ”
          RECON (see above) asked, and I answered him - castling will not help.

          “Well, if you have anything to say about missiles - just say so, you were asked. Only on business. ”
          I’ll say about rockets. What is more important for Russia - to restore space prestige or to engage in routine launches as needed? You can restore prestige, but at what cost? Direct 50% of GDP to the industry? More? And what to get on the way out? One or two missiles and a devastated country? For what? To say loudly “And we can !!” While the development of missiles engaged in the state-in-nothing happens, because bureaucracy / corruption will be eaten by all the money. And it is now. NASA itself made the Shuttles, swelled a lot of money (the Shuttles did their job perfectly), but it was just expensive to maintain. And NASA found a way out - Congress allocates $$$, and NASA itself is looking for rocket builders. And I found - Boeing and SpaceX. So NASA pays them. And it requires! And checks! By the way - at Boeing its Starliner is somewhere 25% more expensive than SpaceX Dragon only due to bureaucracy and inefficient management!
          And for these two other private traders also reached out!
          The state of Russia has an overheated state sector. Privatize it and productivity will increase significantly. Believe in the market - the market will fill all the niches of production, so necessary state-woo. But on the other hand, idiotic taxes and controls by the state do not allow him, the private trader, to turn around.
          A simple example. Kolomoisky in Ukraine closed its airline. And then another businessman was found and opened his own airline. I mean, the market will always occupy niches where there are few performers and many consumers.
          But back to the rockets. Does Russia want to go to the moon? To Mars? Once run and there, and there? Is that all? And if you run it many times, then have you seen a request for the development of these flights until 2035? What, in what sequence, cost? NASA has such long-term programs, and Congress, consecutively, allocates money for these programs. Moreover, it constantly monitors and changes, i.e. there is a dynamic control. In Roskosmos, Rogozin once every 2-3 months announces the future construction of something super-duper and flaunts the name of this piece of iron. And everyone knows that this is chatter.
          In short - there are dibs, then build (Ho at any cost?), No dibs - run what you have or pay Europe / USA, but if you want a breakthrough, only the private trader will take it out.

          “And you and your kind only know - change, kick out ... And whom in return, at least tell me?”
          Why are you asking me? Did I create a situation when there’s no one to choose from? Where did the alternative candidates go? Ask this question to the creator of the vertical and to those who supported it. I know the answer, but I won’t say ...
          But one of the answers is: when the “vertical” becomes the “horizontal”, then we’ll talk ...
    2. 210ox
      210ox 4 January 2020 06: 44
      +38
      Yes, the consideration is one for good applies to people working in production, to train personnel. Eight years ago, I moved to the Krasnodar Territory, went to get a job on agricultural production and processing ... And here it was a discovery for me that in the district of several districts there are not a single little engineer in automation. Took with great joy.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 4 January 2020 11: 59
        +5
        Quote: 210ox
        Yes, the consideration is one for good applies to people

        + It treats well. In addition, the author equalizes Western (monetary), Soviet (socialist) and modern Russian (semi-feudal) attitudes towards people, trying to find a common denominator in this - money. This is not entirely true. In Soviet science, scientific authority could be earned by speaking at seminars about your ideas. In modern Western science, if a bright thought occurred to you, then you are trying to hide this thought from your competitors and sell it at least more expensive to anyone. As a result, everyone is trying to hide their ideas. In Western scientific periodicals, everything is written in such a way that the technical embodiment of know-how is incomprehensible. This slows down Western science and Russian science too today, although today, there is no our own science.
        1. Dimmedroll
          Dimmedroll 6 January 2020 14: 10
          +1
          Regarding the semi-feudal Russian economy, I beg you. Everything is the same as in the west. One to one.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 6 January 2020 19: 24
            0
            Quote: Dimmedroll
            About the semi-feudal

            I mean the development of our own production of consumer goods
      2. l7yzo
        l7yzo 4 January 2020 16: 09
        +6
        And also, they train personnel, but they do not know how to handle them. We like - "I am the boss - you d ...")))
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 5 January 2020 23: 36
          +3
          I didn’t drink with you at the Brudershaft ... Well, in principle, okay. There are plenty of boors everywhere. And I get my salary in rubles, not dollars. Of course, few do not reach 40k. But there is no other job.
    3. Obi-Wan Kenobi
      Obi-Wan Kenobi 4 January 2020 07: 01
      +66
      Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not! And the director of a large plant could not bathe in luxury against the background of hungry turners and technologists. Therefore, the result was.

      Of course I couldn’t. Because the difference in salaries between the ranks was a maximum of 15%.
      And now this difference can be 100% and 10%. Everything is limited by the greed and imagination of the director. To stole as much for yourself - as if for the last time and a little more just in case.
      But for workers and ordinary engineers - hell, but a little! It's okay, they will not die!
      And, what is most interesting, this reptile director understands perfectly well that without his subordinates he is simply "on a stick for a long time." Because, as in the production of products of "his" enterprise, this would-be director does not understand anything at all. He confidently steadily brings to the "top".
      And the deputies, especially the chief accountant, basically all the same goofs as he is. But they "belong" to the board and help to cut the allocated funds.
      Only deputy. sensible production, as a rule. But also of those who sell their souls to anyone for money.
      And the workers are forced to go to this enterprise, work for a penny and endure all this, because there is simply NO other work! There is at least some penny salary and work experience.
      I myself work in such an enterprise and, believe me, I know what I'm writing about.
      At what enterprise? Don’t ask, I won’t say it anyway.
      That's the whole point in the article. What is not clear?
      What is the guarantor, such and his subordinates. Well and below, according to the chain, respectively.
      Honest, decent and, most importantly, competent specialists - managers now Absolutely no one needs! Because you will not receive kickbacks and bribes from them!
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 07: 27
        +34
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        But for workers and ordinary engineers - hell, but a little! It's okay, they will not die!

        With us in the USSR, the director received 600 rubles, and the usual fitter of the third category received 250-300. Now we take as an example one bourgeois from our own site. He boasts that he has accumulated pensions for 500 years ahead ... request
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 4 January 2020 09: 32
          +73
          My father, an engineer, made electronics for Topoli, received 350 rubles and was very proud of it. Then, when the Russian authorities came to power, he stopped being proud of his salary. But he began to talk about the director and bosses, how much they "earn". And what they steal.
          That’s the whole difference, then and now.

          Mother also worked with her father as a simple radio regulator after a technical school. Received 250. That, too, was not bad.
          Parents were proud of the country, their social status and the fact that they are doing a very important thing for the country. In the new Russia, everything was the other way around.

          Thanks to the author for the article. I wrote everything correctly.
          1. grave
            grave 4 January 2020 22: 51
            0
            An important matter for the country ... It’s already broken ... When the next time the masses of people will speak the same way while going with JOY to work?
        2. Victor N
          Victor N 4 January 2020 09: 55
          -17
          And the ordinary engineer received 100 - 120 rubles. Is it normal when engineers with experience retired as locksmiths?
          And it’s only 2 times harder to evaluate the director’s work - this is nonsense!
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 10: 23
            +31
            Quote: Victor N
            And the ordinary engineer received 100 - 120 rubles.

            One of my uncles was an ordinary engineer (designed tower cranes) and an inventor. I did not ask how much he received, but he did not at all seek to transfer to our factory, although he had such an opportunity. He did not want to wave Mary Bath or to stand behind the machine. By the way, our income was about 350-400 rubles for a family of 4 people, this was when my sister and I were a child (my mother received 100 rubles as a cashier) and it was enough for us. When they gave a four-apartment with an area of ​​80 squares, for six months it was fully equipped. And the uncle engineer was a music lover, he bought equipment only of the highest class, Arktur 006 still works for me. And my sister has Radio engineering. All is left of him. The full wardrobe was full of records and bobbins.
            Quote: Victor N
            And it’s only 2 times harder to evaluate the director’s work - this is nonsense!

            The salary of the Minister of the USSR was 800 rubles, if memory serves me right. The miner's apprentice earned more than the secretary of the district committee. That is why the USSR was destroyed.
            1. grave
              grave 4 January 2020 22: 54
              0
              Worth Electrical Engineering 001 B1 1973 and the equalizer Corvette 004-Purchased recently for the soul on the occasion of the New Year ...
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 5 January 2020 00: 51
                +3
                I don’t remember the equalizer, but the Corvette turntable was something fantastic. Well, the price of rubles is under 900. When I found out, my eyes got on my forehead.
                Quote: Kapa
                equalizer Corvette 004-Purchased recently for the soul on the occasion of the New Year ...

                For my soul - my favorite receiver "Ocean 209" 81-year release. Never broke.
                1. grave
                  grave 5 January 2020 12: 16
                  +1
                  Cool! I'm still waiting for them to do the Brig Amplifier, I'll buy it too ... 900 rubles for a turntable then .... it's a motorcycle ...
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 5 January 2020 13: 55
                    +1
                    Quote: Kapa
                    900 rubles for a turntable then .... it's a motorcycle ...

                    Yes, the Corvette was in my opinion the most expensive turntable in the USSR. Like two "Sunrise" in cost. Or IZhak. Or as three Arcturus (240 rubles 1987, looked at its price). It is necessary to confiscate the radio equipment from my sister somehow, all the same it is gathering dust from her idle, flaunts for the entourage.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 5 January 2020 17: 08
                      +3
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      We must somehow confiscate the radio equipment from my sister’s amp, anyway he’s gathering dust with her, showing off for the surroundings.

                      Damn, they’d say a couple of years earlier, I would give you the whole rack for free, and there was a Radio-101 amplifier, a Radio-101 tuner, a Yauza-204 tape recorder and a Vega-105 turntable.
                    2. grave
                      grave 5 January 2020 18: 31
                      +1
                      This is a must! -Confiscate! Because there are very few of them left and they are valued. My repairman made the electronics and said, let's change! I will give the grit this and that. I say: no! He attacks this amp at the price then it’s a 50-70 thousand category. Well, as a wise man, I took the repaired home and rejoice. Now I’ll take Brig 3 revisions
          2. Obi-Wan Kenobi
            Obi-Wan Kenobi 4 January 2020 10: 57
            +25
            And an ordinary engineer received 100 - 120r

            Not true.
            A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive. Further more.
            1. victor50
              victor50 4 January 2020 12: 04
              +20
              Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
              Not true.
              A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive. Further more.

              Sister with her husband, working in the nuclear industry, in number cities, received 300 and 700, respectively. Sister - 3 days a week. For 3 years from a room in a communal apartment - to a 3-room apartment. At that time I was receiving 230-250 in the service. And a room, then 2, in a communal apartment. I think it was right.
            2. dauria
              dauria 4 January 2020 13: 29
              +5
              A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive.


              Remember to name the year. For 82-88 years. the numbers are correct. And a little earlier it was even the topic of a sad joke - "along with a diploma you get a salary of 120 rubles."
              Well, how would a techie solve this state problem? Just like any task - I first looked at how the "adversaries" solve it. What have you achieved, what you can "lick" without reinventing the wheel. And how to make this bike ride normally on our roads. Only the techies will not decide, but the top. And when and if it bakes from below or from the side.
            3. gsev
              gsev 4 January 2020 22: 23
              +2
              Quote: Obi Wan Kenoai discarded furniture, bi
              Not true.

              Around 1987, like Baumansky graduates, I received 107 rubles clean and 130 rubles dirty at the defense institute. In 1989-1990, the salary was not bad, In 1991, there appeared the possibility of left-hand wages among sensible people, including those by profession. By 1994, the salaries of engineers were equated with lumpen. My friend worked at the aircraft factory for the repair and modernization of machine tools. He could not create a family and his design line was interrupted. Father also made and repaired machine tools and appliances on the Banner of the Revolution. A Tajik janitor can now earn more than an aircraft designer, given that he can have left money selling discarded equipment, furniture, repairing plumbing and electrics.
          3. Freeman
            Freeman 4 January 2020 12: 12
            +19
            Quote: Victor N
            And an ordinary engineer received 100 - 120r. Is it normal when engineers with experience retired as locksmiths?
            And it’s only 2 times harder to evaluate the director’s work - this is nonsense!


            In what years, in the early 70's?
            1. 100-120 rubles was received by a "young specialist" without experience, right after college, in the same "research institutes" from jokes.
            After 3 years, he received the 3rd category (unless he was immediately credited to a full-time vacancy).
            After another 3 years - the 2nd category (etc.).
            And don't forget about "quarterly" bonuses of 30-60% of the salary.

            CPSU CENTRAL COMMITTEE
            USSR Council of Ministers
            ALL-CENTRAL CENTRAL COUNCIL OF PROFESSIONAL UNIONS

            DECISION
            from 24 December 1976 N N 1058

            ON INCREASING THE MINIMUM
            WAGES FOR WORKERS AND EMPLOYEES
            WITH SIMULTANEOUS INCREASE OF OFFICIAL WAGES AND
            TARIFF RATES OF AVERAGE PAYABLE CATEGORIES OF EMPLOYEES
            SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS, DESIGN
            TECHNOLOGICAL, DESIGN, SURVEY ORGANIZATIONS,
            COMPUTER CENTERS, INFORMATION AND COMPUTING
            AND MACHINING STATIONS, CENTERS (LABORATORIES)
            ON THE SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATION OF LABOR AND MANAGEMENT
            PRODUCTION AND OTHER SCIENCE ORGANIZATIONS



            source:
            http://www.libussr.ru/doc_ussr/usr_9067.htm


            2. The difference in director’s pay is twice as much. than that of subordinates, quite normal for that time.
            Let me remind you that the salary difference of 10 rubles was very noticeable - with this money, one person could live a week.
            1. l7yzo
              l7yzo 4 January 2020 16: 13
              +2
              thank you for the info
          4. telobezumnoe
            telobezumnoe 4 January 2020 23: 25
            +4
            who cares? everyone does their job, why should the manager’s work be paid ten times more than another specialist? Of course, someone justifies this with risks, but on the other hand, a worker was fired for poor work - God forbid, he has enough for one month, or someone with a golden parachute .. who takes more risks?
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 4 January 2020 14: 39
          -8
          I earned 80% of this amount by playing on the stock exchange since 2012.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 11
            +14
            Quote: Vadim237
            I earned 80% of this amount by playing on the stock exchange since 2012.

            That is, actually from the air, without producing any material values. What is there to be proud of? I do not understand...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 29
              -5
              You carry some kind of banal garbage - I just took part of the profit from my production on it so that I would play otherwise.
            2. telobezumnoe
              telobezumnoe 4 January 2020 23: 34
              0
              Well, partly investments are not from the air, you help those of your own business who need growth in your opinion, they develop and strengthen your investments in them, and they have something to develop with.
          2. smart ass
            smart ass 4 January 2020 17: 18
            0
            It is very interesting, on which particular papers or on the difference in currencies?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 27
              -1
              He played big on drag metals and oil price rates.
              1. smart ass
                smart ass 5 January 2020 00: 25
                0
                Now do not practice?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 5 January 2020 21: 06
                  -1
                  The last time he bet on the oil industry when the oil refineries in Saudi Arabia attacked the Husits.
                  1. smart ass
                    smart ass 6 January 2020 00: 34
                    0
                    What tools do you use? Prog
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 4 January 2020 09: 39
        +15
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        Everything is limited by the greed and imagination of the director. To stole as much for yourself - as if for the last time and a little more just in case.

        That is why Comrade I.V. Stalin. It is necessary to plant, with confiscation. Yes, and "sharagi" would not hurt.
      3. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 4 January 2020 10: 28
        +33
        The question is about the salary .... They do not pay because: 1) the Labor Code was modified to please the "employers" and not the hired workers, 2) the "living wage" that all employers are guided by when setting the level of wages is absolutely unreal and is set by the state at the level of Zimbabwe, 3) real unemployment in Russia is several times higher than the "non-performing" Rosstat indicates, which creates excessive competition in the labor market and strong pressure on the employee, in terms of his consent to the low level of required wages, 4) heaps of migrants are brought from professions, which inexorably pulls the main labor market down with it, 5) there are no "25 million high-tech jobs" in Russia, and therefore highly educated specialists in large numbers are not in demand, so many are not needed, and there were a lot of them on the market at one time. -for the collapse of the USSR industry, hence the lack of understanding of the need to pay them high wages, 6) a private entrepreneur, no matter what they say in the first the first turn is interested in their profits and the salary of workers is part of its expenses, hence it will always restrain its growth and focus on paying the minimum, 7) the state has actually withdrawn from regulating the situation with wages and generally left the labor market, following only the tax component 8) Well, the last and perhaps most important thing is that there is a fundamental difference between the tax system in Russia and in the "West" - in Russia, tax pressure has been transferred to an enterprise, and in the West, to an individual. That is, in Russia, the employer pays most of the taxes of an individual on a fixed scale, and in the West, most taxes are paid by an individual on a progressive scale.
        1. victor50
          victor50 4 January 2020 12: 06
          +12
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          in Russia there are no "25 million high-tech jobs" and therefore highly educated specialists are not in demand in large numbers, so many are not needed, and there were a lot of them on the market at one time due to the collapse of the USSR industry, hence the lack of understanding of the need to pay them high salaries

          My friend said 25 years ago: "Professionalism is not in demand at this time"
          1. aureole
            aureole 4 January 2020 15: 25
            +4
            Quote: victor50
            "Professionalism is not in demand at this time"

            I support. And in all areas.
            The manager is the "grease" between the "gears" - the professionals. The mechanism will work even without lubrication, albeit slowly, creakingly, and most likely not for long. A good CEO can significantly increase the efficiency of an enterprise, although he will not know the subtleties and details known to narrow specialists. But if there are no these "gears" - at least fill all workplaces with three PMPs - the mechanism from one "lubricant" will not be able to work. And the people believe in miracles. So there are "high-likes" everywhere.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Freeman
            Freeman 4 January 2020 14: 45
            +9
            Obi Wan Kenobi (Sigismund Voldemarovich) Today, 12:51
            The status of a non-grata person in Russia was too smart for a diplomat of the PRC (23.12.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX)

            Yeah. And none of the pluses noticed -
            Attention - this “news” from our cheerful colleagues from RIA “Panorama” is an artistic work on the general situation. Good mood to you all! Do not get sick and happy New Year!


            "Panorama" specializes in creating various "fake news" for entertainment purposes, which it honestly warns about on its pages. But many do not notice this and take it at face value. fool wassat
            1. Artemiy_2
              Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 42
              -2
              "Panorama" specializes in creating various "fake news" for entertainment purposes, which it honestly warns about on its pages. But many do not notice this and take it at face value.

              He has already suffered. And after all, the most important thing for his fake is he will not answer. A cowardly will hide
          2. Artemiy_2
            Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 41
            -1
            ahahahah
            This is a fake from the IA Panorama website. God what fools our earth bears
            Threw a complaint for the distribution of fakes. Oh god
            1. dirk182
              dirk182 4 January 2020 22: 44
              -4
              feel better?) You, how zealously rushed to defend the "truth". Indicative laughing. Snitches nowhere and no one likes. Even those who are knocking.
              1. Artemiy_2
                Artemiy_2 5 January 2020 00: 10
                0
                Nehren fakes spread
      4. naidas
        naidas 4 January 2020 11: 55
        +1
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        And, what is most interesting, this reptile director understands perfectly well that without his subordinates he is simply "on a stick for a long time."

        It’s also not true, in our civil service, the chief engineer would fire you all and be left alone. You can hire third-party organizations and receive bonuses without worrying about yours.
        1. Simple
          Simple 4 January 2020 14: 59
          +3
          Quote: naidas
          It’s also not true, in our civil service the chief engineer would fire you all and be left alone



          I knew another chief engineer: the demand of the plant director to fire certain people was answered: "If you are going to fire them, then I myself will leave."

          Since these people, although they missed a pile at the end of the working week,, figuratively speaking, all production was held on them.
          In fairness, it is worth noting that the director was recently appointed, the former went to Germany, and the new was, to put it mildly, not a couple of the old.
      5. ZAV69
        ZAV69 4 January 2020 18: 15
        +1
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        What is the guarantor, such and his subordinates. Well and below, according to the chain, respectively.
        Honest, decent and, most importantly, competent specialists - managers now Absolutely no one needs! Because you will not receive kickbacks and bribes from them!

        You simplify and complicate everything at the same time. The guarantor here cannot and cannot change anything. Our society suffers from capitalism with a comprador bias. And it hurts from the age of 91. It hurts through and through. We have something that is not available in other developed countries (African and other garbage dumps do not count): in our country, almost everyone trying to get into business or money is trying to dump abroad. In order for the guarantor to be able to do something, he must have at hand the NKVD of 1933 and the Iron Curtain, he doesn’t have either
    4. Mcar
      Mcar 4 January 2020 07: 02
      +14
      Quote: Recon
      Well yes, author, everything is bad, collapsed, broken. I read this a hundred times, I saw nothing new. And what's the point in the article? Who is to blame is understandable. You would be better suggested specifically what to do? Your considerations?

      1. If EVERYTHING is bad, or, more accurately, worse than it was, then this is no longer a cascade of accidents, but a system. A system to make everything from step to step worse and worse.

      2. It is possible to offer, besides it has already been offered many times, only to whom? Well, now I would suggest something. To whom? The Kremlin? The bourgeoisie? Skeet main? Who should implement the proposal - will he even know that there is some objectively good proposal?

      3. Considerations are another matter. There are plenty of them, good considerations, in almost every social, economic, and political topic. Well, for example, such a consideration - capitalism will destroy both Russia and the entire planet. Because the formation has already survived more than a hundred years. The trouble with space and aviation is only a consequence, and the reason is capitalism, in socio-economic relations in society. And the topic raised is just one of a million other similar ones. We take any aspect, and a similar picture. And as you know, it’s pointless to treat symptoms - you need to treat the disease as a whole.
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 4 January 2020 10: 59
        +20
        I missed one of the most important points determining the low level of salaries in Russia and it is typical for Russia: 9) the employer’s demand for comfort and financial well-being is too high, and in simple terms: EMPLOYERS ARE SMALL AND THERE CAN'T GET THEM ....
        The solution to the problem with a low salary "on the surface" - take any item from the ones I have indicated and solve it, in terms of correction. You only need desire.
      2. depressant
        depressant 4 January 2020 11: 58
        +12
        Colleagues Monster_Fat and McAr, as always, are a great analysis!
        At one time, the iron curtain was raised so that the dissatisfied would merge according to the principle "Don't like what we are doing? The gate is open!" Well, a huge number of different people have merged. The West sifted them through a sieve. It turned out that those who were dissatisfied with the Soviet Union were no longer particularly needed - so, they warmed up a few, on occasion, barking. Many of the rest returned and found their usual place in the paid-for false opposition. But highly qualified specialists were in demand, and how! Here they are, in the West, they have been thoroughly warmed up and are actively continuing to warm them up, sucking the best personnel from Russia.
        Either last, or the year before last, some Muscovite boy passed the exam for 400 points, he decided to enter Moscow State University. The patriotic paper press was wildly proud - they say, what are we, huh? We are growing! The Internet shouted in chorus: "What are you doing ?! Go to Sweden! At worst, to the USA!"
        People already clearly understand that good specialists are not needed by Russian capitalism. After all, it was built in accordance with the skills - moral, criminal, professional - according to the patterns of the so-called "Gorbachev's perestroika", which, with the domocles sword of laws, cut off the head of natural healthy entrepreneurship.
        Don’t believe it!
        Four days before the New Year in the "Five" I hear a conversation between two women, by sight - office cleaners. "My son-in-law told me that there is a plowman in the Kremlin!"
        This has now come to the people to replace the habitually indefinite "Power steals!"
    5. vit670
      vit670 4 January 2020 12: 31
      +6
      What to do, dear, lies on the surface: the salaries of officials to equalize (or at least approximate) with the salaries of workers who, in contrast to bureaucrats, produce wealth. And of course, even a little bit to reduce theft and the export of capital abroad. In the most cruel way! Officials will not do this, and the president will not do this either. Why? Because it is his support and they elected him for their money! He simple simple hard workers will just hang noodles on the ears and PR every day on the TV. There is no way to do without a revolution - they will not give up their power and the ability to rob people without blood! So far, in the short term, this does not threaten Russia. Why? There is no leader, not yet visible. There are only corrupt, close to the president leaders of pseudo-parties .... Which play the role of fooling voters, and by the way are well paid by the government!
    6. The comment was deleted.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 30
        -1
        This will not solve a tenth of all problems.
    7. smart ass
      smart ass 4 January 2020 17: 05
      +3
      Can for one siluanova with a salary of 1.4 million rubles tell me how to save the Russian economy?
      1. ultra
        ultra 4 January 2020 20: 08
        +1
        Quote: Clever man
        Can for one siluanova with a salary of 1.4 million rubles tell me how to save the Russian economy?

        To save from Siluanov? laughing
    8. Arkon
      Arkon 4 January 2020 17: 24
      -7
      Wow. What does VO turn into? A commentator who offers to make concrete proposals and not engage in criticism is gaining -30, and a commentator who calls to overthrow the government and does not offer anything is gaining +36!

      Is VO turning into a branch of Echo of Moscow?
      1. eklmn
        eklmn 4 January 2020 23: 09
        0
        Andrei, don’t liken yourself to one famous propagandist of pre-war Germany, or DO NOT LIE - NOBODY offers to overthrow the government! In addition, I promised you to put Plus? I honestly put it, he is there alone (unfortunately) ...
        And in general, envy is not good!
        1. Arkon
          Arkon 6 January 2020 10: 57
          0
          Quote: eklmn
          Andrei, don’t liken yourself to one famous propagandist of pre-war Germany, or DO NOT LIE - NOBODY offers to overthrow the government!


          Well wait, here are your words:
          do not pretend, please, you perfectly know what to do! Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons.


          How do you propose to "remove" the President of the Russian Federation from management? Given that the people have unequivocally expressed their opinion at the vote?

          PS I don’t even comment on "envy" - you can see my statistics of appearing on the site and my "struggle for advantages". laughing
      2. telobezumnoe
        telobezumnoe 5 January 2020 00: 12
        +1
        and do nothing, that’s how you’re building a society now, loot wins evil, and it’s not important what to do, the main thing is to have enough red pants, to have one dream for everyone on Friday, a shirt-front apartment or an island yacht ideally)) and everyone is ready as a squirrel in a wheel for the sake of this beautiful goal. it's just an ideology inspired by television and the Internet, few people want to create, most just want to consume, and don’t know how to take their free time (watch TV shows or shows) to be entertained)
  2. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 4 January 2020 04: 47
    +22
    It is worth adding that low salaries result in low purchasing power, low demand leads to a reduction in output, and a modern effective manager sees a way out of the situation in lowering salaries or reducing staff. At the same time, we are told that we are about to rush at an unprecedented pace. And so that no one doubts that the economy is growing, they came up with negative growth economy.
    1. Victor N
      Victor N 4 January 2020 10: 04
      -5
      A high salary at low productivity leads to an increase in cost and price. Products stop buying, the company stops - bankrupt. It is for this reason that enterprises have been and will stop. Elementary! And this is not the law of capitalism, but the law of life: if you eat more than you get, you die.
      1. naidas
        naidas 4 January 2020 12: 00
        +6
        Quote: Victor N
        High salary at low productivity leads

        If you are talking about manual labor, yes, but the 21st century is the problem of the surplus of people, they have been replaced by technology. In the USA, 20% of production and 80% of services.
        1. depressant
          depressant 4 January 2020 12: 14
          +4
          Victor N., who or what prevents the owner of the enterprise from supplying modern equipment and hiring specialists capable of training workers to use it to increase labor productivity? Finally, hire such professionals on an ongoing basis? Putting everyone a decent salary?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 02
            -1
            Probably the lack of money for this most modern equipment - this is why they take loans to buy it, but it’s half the trouble you need to train staff for this new equipment, and this is already a simple part of production capacity due to a decrease in productivity for the quarter, and you need to pay on loans every month, similarly with taxes, there will be no increase in salaries in this case, as an example of 1500 enterprises of the military-industrial complex - they got loans worth 1,4 trillion rubles, Roscosmos with 130 billion debts of Khrunichev understands.
            1. Alf
              Alf 4 January 2020 18: 41
              +5
              Quote: Vadim237
              you need to train personnel for this new equipment

              And where did the training system go?
          2. Victor N
            Victor N 4 January 2020 16: 50
            -1
            The same law interferes, it is universal: in the Stone Age, now.
          3. telobezumnoe
            telobezumnoe 5 January 2020 00: 17
            +1
            what for? if the logic is such that the cow is more profitable, it should be fed less often and milked more often, and then for meat, now effective managers have the best tool to increase labor productivity)
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 5 January 2020 21: 09
              0
              This is the logic of idiocy - and it works only in burning offices.
      2. victor50
        victor50 4 January 2020 12: 09
        +7
        Quote: Victor N
        A high salary at low productivity leads to an increase in cost and price. Products stop buying, the company stops - bankrupt. It is for this reason that enterprises have been and will stop. Elementary! And this is not the law of capitalism, but the law of life: if you eat more than you get, you die.

        At the same time, I did not have to meet the impoverished owners and production managers. request
        1. Victor N
          Victor N 5 January 2020 15: 36
          0
          You are not lucky to meet the former, many do not live long after bankruptcy ....
    2. victor50
      victor50 4 January 2020 12: 08
      +3
      Quote: Mikhail M
      low demand leads to reduced output,

      would add- or reduce its quality.
  3. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 4 January 2020 04: 49
    +14
    "Cadres are everything!" Who said that ? That's it ....
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 05: 00
      +10
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      "Cadres are everything!"

      And now I have a question for you, ”said Stalin, coming up. - How much salary do you get?

      “By the decision of the Council of People's Commissars, four thousand rubles a month were determined to me, as the Aeroflot chief pilot, [25],” I answered somewhat puzzled.

      - And how much does the commander of an aviation regiment get? - asked Stalin, referring to the drug defense of Marshal of the Soviet Union Tymoshenko.

      “We don’t get such a salary.” The regiment commander receives one thousand six hundred rubles from us, ”said Marshal Tymoshenko.

      It became quiet.

      - And how much do you earn at all? Asked Stalin. The conversation took an unpleasant turn for me.

      - Comrade Stalin, I did not pursue money and do not pursue it. It is supposed to be one thousand six hundred rubles - I will receive such a salary.

      - But still, how much do you earn?

      “A lot,” I answered in a somewhat elevated tone and fell silent.
      https://e-libra.ru/read/164994-dal-nyaya-bombardirovochnaya.html
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 09: 32
      +6
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      "Cadres are everything!"

      Especially when the country is ruled by such "personnel"!
      I don't know if it's a topic, but on YouTube I came across an "optimistic" interview with the general designer of KB Kamov.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 04
        -1
        Kamovtsy can rejoice, they have ordered more than a hundred Ka 52 MOs until 2027.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 38
          +5
          Would you go Vadik with such joy somewhere in your alternative future, and separately from the rest of the population. Under the USSR, 300-400 cars were produced every year.
          1. Artemiy_2
            Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 44
            -2
            there was no such thing.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 44
              0
              Quote: Artemiy_2
              was not like that.

              What wasn’t?
              1. Artemiy_2
                Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 45
                -3
                300-400 verticals per year of one model was not.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 49
                  +5
                  I did not talk about one model. I'm talking about the total number of cars. Only Mi-24 during the Union produced more than a hundred a year.
                  1. Artemiy_2
                    Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 50
                    -3
                    Now there is no need for such a number of verts
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 56
                      +9
                      Why do you think so? I occasionally communicate with the men from the Syzran helicopter - they say the opposite. And the comparison of the number of turntables in the United States and Russia is clearly not in favor of Russia - six to one. Is this your "no need"?
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 41
                        +1
                        And the USSR, which had an army of more than 3 million, is no longer there - correspondingly, this number of Russian helicopters is not needed, and 190 and 300 and more helicopters of all models produce them anyway.
                      2. Artemiy_2
                        Artemiy_2 5 January 2020 00: 08
                        +2
                        It is useless to explain to them. Here the sect gathered
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 37
            -4
            No, you would just go to your icy Internet infoblyvotin and take your so-called "population" of trolls and other whiners with you.
        2. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2020 18: 44
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          Kamovtsy can rejoice, they have ordered more than a hundred Ka 52 MOs until 2027.

          100 helicopters in 7 years. 14 turntables per year, 1 helicopter per month ... Hurray !!!
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 38
            +1
            I wrote only about a specific model of the Ka 52, and not about all the helicopter models that the MO plans to purchase - learn how to read.
            1. Alf
              Alf 5 January 2020 17: 00
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              I wrote only about a specific model of the Ka 52, and not about all the helicopter models that the MO plans to purchase - learn how to read.

              I can read, but it is time for some to stop rejoicing in such "great" achievements.
              Kamov's office what other turntables are producing now? Does not repair, but releases new ones? How much will it be loaded?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 5 January 2020 21: 16
                0
                Ka 226, Ka 62, Ka 31, a new attack helicopter under construction, a new carrier-based helicopter under construction, plus export orders - just like Miles will not remain without work.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 5 January 2020 21: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Ka 226, Ka 62, Ka 31, a new attack helicopter under construction, a new carrier-based helicopter under construction, plus export orders - just like Miles will not remain without work.

                  Specifically, how much did you order? About the 52nd you gave the numbers, now give about the rest of the orders, do not be like the GDP, which also vaguely promises something.
    3. knn54
      knn54 4 January 2020 10: 15
      +9
      By a decree of June 23, 1921, it was established that the wages of responsible co-workers cannot exceed more than one and a half times the average wage in an enterprise or in an institution in which the aforementioned “comrades” work.
      ...
      In 1955, Vladimir Starovsky, the head of the Central Statistical Bureau, compiled a secret certificate on the size of salaries in the country. According to him, over 42% of workers received less than 500 rubles a month — less than the average monthly salary. Those whose monthly income ranged from 2000 rubles and above, in the country there were only 2% - 900 thousand people.
      TODAY, the ratio between the salaries of 10% of the richest Russians and 10% of the poorest reached the OFFICIAL indicator of 1 to 25.
      Rogozin has a daily salary higher than the monthly salary of an engineer in the space industry
      I want to note one point already in Brezhnev’s era, the prestige of the engineer began to decline.
      Low salaries for young professionals. people from foremen went to workers. "Majors" after a failed career left as INSTRUCTORS in the party and Komsomol district / city committees where they gave instructions "how to work."
      TODAY, universities do not pay for knowledge, but for the session.
      The paradox is vacancies, and unemployment is rising.
    4. WIKI
      WIKI 4 January 2020 10: 28
      +7
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      "Cadres are everything!"

      As they decide, we live:
  4. apro
    apro 4 January 2020 05: 01
    +8
    The author solved the problem simply. Give only money. and there ..... there will be a squirrel and a whistle.
    What salaries? in Soviet times, breaks 1.5. 2 times today is an order of magnitude but if there is no long-term program. Or plan. And everything is on the run. Today we have to buy tomorrow then who needs this aerospace industry?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 05: 09
      +8
      Quote: apro
      What salaries? in Soviet times, breaks 1.5. 2 times today is an order of magnitude but if there is no long-term program. Or plan. And everything is on the run. Today we have to buy tomorrow then who needs this aerospace industry?

      Well, I’ll add.
      One of the comrades suggested sending one of the deputy commissars, a strong organizer, who would be able to rectify the situation there, the factory director.

      Stalin asked:

      - How much does the director of the plant get?

      They called him the amount.

      - And the deputy commissar?

      It turned out a lot more.

      - Does he have a family? An affirmative answer followed.

      “How will you send him the director of the plant and lower his salary if he is a good worker?”

      - He is a communist and is obliged to implement decisions.

      “We are not all Social Revolutionaries,” said Stalin. “Does he manage his job here?”

      - Completely.

      - And you told him that you want to recommend him to the post of director of the plant?

      - Нет.

      There was a long pause. Finally, Stalin spoke:

      - Here we have some gentlemen communists who solve issues this way: since you are a communist, no matter where you are sent, no matter what they do to you, shout “cheers” and vote for the Soviet regime. Of course, every communist will fulfill any decision of the party and go where he is sent. But the party must act reasonably. [46] It is unlikely that this or that communist will shout “hooray” if you throw him on a breakthrough and for that cut his salary by half, although he may not say anything about this to you. Where did you get that we have the right to do this to people? Apparently, if we really want to improve the matter, it is advisable to leave all the benefits that he receives here to his family, and to send him to the plant, and let the director of the plant work there for a salary. Put the plant on its feet - will come back. It seems that with this decision, the matter will move, and the person will have more energy.

      https://e-libra.ru/read/164994-dal-nyaya-bombardirovochnaya.html
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 09: 18
      +13
      Quote: apro
      The author solved the problem simply. Give only money. and there ..... there will be a squirrel and a whistle.

      But the issue is far from salaries, or rather not only in them. The vocational education system is completely killed. Now it’s full of ambitious ignoramuses, and we need motivated professionals. And the same situation is everywhere, including in medicine.
      1. victor50
        victor50 4 January 2020 12: 21
        +6
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        But the matter is far from salaries

        But the author did not talk only about salaries, he talked about money. About the need to pour them into the industry if we want to get something from it that will work. OK.
  5. Squelcher
    Squelcher 4 January 2020 05: 16
    -21
    Chef mustache is gone !!!!!
    Yes there are problems in space and not only
    but pouring dirt ?????
    1. Skif
      Skif 4 January 2020 09: 43
      -6
      I would say to water. From the hip.
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 4 January 2020 12: 44
        -6
        The current adherents of the communists and liberals are ready to throw mud at the present and the past of Russia and then wonder why I don’t take them seriously. There were many good things in the USSR, but also bad ones. But in a fit of impotent rage, they try to call for revolution over and over again, since the trough has closed. I remember how the political workers in the garbage dumps in Japan fumbled, for the sake of free refrigerators and audio equipment. The plates hung in Russian "Don't go to the Russians" and "Don't steal", it was so good in the USSR that sailors, when they entered the ports of Japan, probably did from "conscience" and prosperity in the country created by the communists and the Communist Party?
    2. Avior
      Avior 5 January 2020 08: 49
      0
      What, in 2014, life was cut short?
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 5 January 2020 09: 31
        +1
        A brain to include or analytical thinking is not necessary? Pivot table for 10 years, already 2024? But already from the article it bears rotten when they let hundreds in the USSR, and in Russia, like what? Dozens? The current liberals pour mud on the USSR, the current "communists" - losers do not hesitate to pour on both the past and the present, it is disgusting.
        1. Avior
          Avior 5 January 2020 09: 55
          -1
          I'm fine with the brain, you follow your
          The lag sharply began to appear just in the last 5-10 years, when a sharp breakthrough occurred in the world in astronautics, but this is not on the table, very successfully drawn up
          1. Squelcher
            Squelcher 5 January 2020 15: 24
            0
            For 5 years for 2015-2019 launches 97, this is on average more than during the Soviet era.
            Turn on the brain, they’re used to what they think they’ll organize for you, Mr. Communist, before pouring dirt on the present and past of Russia. The USSR died thanks to people like you.
            1. Avior
              Avior 5 January 2020 18: 11
              -2
              I'm tired of reading your crap. Your diagram is a filkin letter, as well as your reasoning
              Under the Union, there were 100 launches per year, not 5 years
              For the 80s, under a thousand launches in 10 years.

              https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_космических_запусков
              1. Squelcher
                Squelcher 5 January 2020 20: 53
                +1
                Read your link carefully before writing. This is a list of all space launches in the World, and not in the USSR. Or do you live in an alternative story where the world revolution triumphed? And Trotsky did not get an ice pick on the head?
                Directly on Lavrov it turns out.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 5 January 2020 20: 55
                  -1
                  Enough is enough
                  There are three columns in the table — the first total number in the world, the second with the Soviet flag — USSR, the third with the US flag — USA
  6. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 4 January 2020 05: 33
    +22
    The author directly outdid both Ulyanov and Lenin! A new word in political economy. Everything is simpler - if the customer does not need it, then the contractor will not do anything either.
    And if we seriously return to political economy, then it should be noted that in Russia this hour is "the period of initial capital accumulation." From the same science, everyone knows that big money can only be made in an unrighteous way. Here we also have a redistribution of the national wealth into private hands, the recreation, so to speak, of the capitalist class destroyed by the Bolsheviks. This is the policy of the state. And who among us can say "the state is me"? Right! Only the ruling party (I say "party" because the word "gang" is not applicable in science).
    The "support of the throne" is now in a kind of prostration, because before the employee was paid "state", and now his own, that is, the same "state", but already "his", because if you can with impunity, or rather directly encouraged, appropriate , then why give ...
    We never left feudalism anywhere. Feudalism is not characterized by free enterprise, but by the "strength" of the labor force. Here you have "distant pasture cattle breeding", that is, "possessional peasants" who are now working on a rotational basis not only in the far north, but also in Moscow and in other "centers" (already in relation to the outback). There is no freedom of movement of labor within the state. An employee cannot get away from a "bad boss" to a "good" one. Firstly, all are "bad", and secondly, the employee is enslaved by a residence permit, an apartment (which cannot be sold in another region), elderly parents, unaffordable tariffs for moving around the country and many other factors.
    In any state there is a layer of people who are "not indifferent". But it will be in demand only when the enemy is at the walls of Moscow, or even worse - in the foothills of the Urals (which is for sure). If the "sovereign" has will, new guardsmen (NKVD) will come, there will be no will, Minins and Pozharskys will come through the rout and humiliation (which state they will lead to is not yet known).
    1. 16329
      16329 4 January 2020 13: 05
      -5
      Well, what kind of enslavement is it now, people are massively moving to Moscow, Petersburg, buying apartments there, on the other hand, some leave the capital, move to the provinces, preferring either “downshifting” or high salaries in the northern regions, which is the problem
      Our plants are owned by large companies with private and state participation, with the participation of foreign owners, etc.
      Unions must defend workers' rights, methods for this are known
      The state legislates only minimum tariffs and social benefits.
      If you legislatively limit management salaries, on the contrary, this will lead to an increase in economic irregularities, an increase in the number of fictitious companies, banal bribery, etc.
      I had experience working with state-owned oil and gas companies in the CIS countries and Lukoil Overseas, guess where there were fewer salaries and higher kickback requirements.
      Of course, in the national oil and gas holdings, despite the constant purges and mass landings of the management of these companies in some CIS countries
      1. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 4 January 2020 14: 28
        +9
        Yes, you looked in the mirror. Who are these "CIS"? Our flesh is ours. Just a hypertrophied caricature of Russia. Lukoil Overseas is a small company and charges little.
        They don't "move" to Moscow, they flee. They run leaving everything. And only those who are younger, who still hope to live the rest of their lives "like human beings."
        High salaries in the northern regions? Where is it? How much is this? Maybe your factories are owned by "companies with private and state participation", while US has no factories for a long time.
        About "trade unions" - let someone else spit at you (if anything, I'm from Kuzbass, the miners are all that).
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 08
          -5
          "And we have not had factories for a long time" - Where is this?
    2. depressant
      depressant 4 January 2020 14: 34
      +4
      pmkemcity, Lenin is out of date!
      We have now not a period of initial accumulation of capital, but a period of initial accumulation of Russian capital in the West.
      Piggymen are greedy and breed. The period can last forever.
  7. kig
    kig 4 January 2020 05: 53
    -1
    You drove along the Superjet, but meanwhile:

    "Superjet" promoted the popularity of local airlines[i] [/ i] is the newspaper Vzglyad.

    Here is an example of the right PR. Looking forward to rockets.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 06: 12
      +5
      Quote: kig
      "Superjet" promoted the popularity of local airlines

      Yeah, billions of subsidies are booming. A small aircraft, we simply do not let out.
      An-2 and An-24 type planes are now nothing to replace them - foreign cars are more expensive and poorly suited to our climate, besides, there is nowhere to get pilots - there are few people who want to fly in the regions ”

      This is from your own example.
  8. NEXUS
    NEXUS 4 January 2020 06: 06
    +21
    Captain obvious...
    Nobody wants to work on CNC machines worth a million euros and get twenty thousand rubles. It is not interesting. And directors literally cry in a voice. And why the salary is scanty? And because the money distribution system is classic feudal. And the income of the machinist is formed “by the residual principle”. And those who want to participate in this attraction of unprecedented generosity are becoming less and less.

    Our helmsmen pay exactly what the laborer could buy to eat and not die, but he could not buy a Kalashnikov assault rifle to shoot them for their reforms and wages.
  9. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 4 January 2020 06: 08
    +15
    Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail

    Because ... But for no reason, like horseradish from the hill go up and grow up the statuses of previously unknown "figures" who have absolutely nothing to prove in real affairs and projects, except development appropriation of budget funds.
    As for the planes. Remember there was a song:
    We learn to fly planes
    We teach them the fear of winning.
    This is our job -
    Learning to fly airplanes.


    So here. Thank God, the Russian land has not become impoverished by the testers. As for the creators ... One cannot create masterpieces in a country with destroyed industrial potential in the hope of “partnership” ties and components. Therefore, in our use there are many prospects and few real significant projects ..
    Chicken can also be taught to fly. Only very low ... wassat A bear - ride a bike.
    Unprofessional, unsuitable people in different industries will destroy us national capitalist economy. Excuse me, but to call professionalism the growth of dollar billionaires and millionaires is neither “a hand does not turn”, nor “a tongue does not rise” ... yes
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 06: 20
      +13
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Excuse me, but to call professionalism the growth of dollar billionaires and millionaires is neither “a hand does not turn”, nor “a tongue does not rise” ...

      So comrade Stalin is recalled ...
      “Well, how are you doing there?” Asked Stalin.

      - The command raises the question that the front headquarters are very close to the front line of defense. It is necessary to withdraw the front headquarters east of Moscow, and organize the KP on the eastern outskirts of Moscow!

      Quite a long silence reigned ...

      - Comrade Stepanov, ask comrades - do they have shovels? - Stalin asked calmly.

      “Now ...” a long pause followed again. “What shovels, Comrade Stalin?”

      “Anyway.”

      - Now ... - Quite quickly, Stepanov reported: - There are shovels, comrade Stalin!

      “Tell your comrades, let them take shovels and dig graves for themselves.” The front headquarters will remain in Perkhushkovo, and I will remain in Moscow. Bye.

      I would lend our defective shovel ...
  10. high
    high 4 January 2020 06: 19
    -1
    Once, the writer Prilepin visited the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) and saw in the lobby of the institute a list of developers of the first Sputnik, after which he wrote:
    I thought it was a sinful thing that the chief designer of the satellite is Korolev, and here only Jews and Korolev do not even exist. Strange .....

    Here is the list:
    Valentin Semenovich Etkin,
    Pavel Efimovich Elyasberg,
    Yan Lvovich Ziman,
    Yakov Borisovich Zeldovich,
    Georgy Ivanovich Petrov,
    Yakov Samuilovich Shklovsky,
    George Stepanovich Narimanov,
    Konstantin Iosifovich Gringauz,
    Yuri Ilyich Halperin,
    Semyon Samoilovich Moiseev,
    Vasily Ivanovich Moroz.

    https://www.ixbt.com/live/oldkadet/tak-kto-zhe-izobrel-pervyy-sputnik-gde-te-sovetskie-evrei.html
    1. Avior
      Avior 5 January 2020 08: 57
      +5
      An example that writers don’t need to write what they don’t understand
      The first satellite had the simplest design possible and, against the background of the launch vehicle that launched it into space, looked like the simplest part of the system
      But the developers of the rocket - the carrier, the famous royal seven ...
      In general: S.P. Korolev
      DU: V.P. Glushko
      SU: M.S. Ryazansky, N.A. Pilyugin
      BUT: V.P. Barmin
      KP: V.I. Kuznetsov
      1. kiril1246
        kiril1246 5 January 2020 21: 15
        -2
        Quote: Avior
        An example of the fact that writers do not need to write something in which they do not understand
        The first satellite had the simplest design possible and, against the background of the launch vehicle that launched it into space, looked like the simplest part of the system
        But the developers of the rocket - the carrier, the famous royal seven ...
        In general: S.P. Korolev
        DU: V.P. Glushko
        SU: M.S. Ryazansky, N.A. Pilyugin
        BUT: V.P. Barmin
        KP: V.I. Kuznetsov


        Here are the real developers of the first satellite:
        1. Avior
          Avior 6 January 2020 07: 20
          +1
          And I didn’t argue with that
          But this is only part of the system, relatively small and
          Sutnik-1 is the first artificial Earth satellite, the Soviet spacecraft launched into orbit on October 4, 1957. The code designation for the satellite is “PS-1” (“The Simplest Sputnik-1”). The launch was carried out from the 5th research site of the USSR Ministry of Defense Tyura-Tam (later known as the Baikonur Cosmodrome) on the Sputnik launch vehicle, which was created on the basis of the R-7 intercontinental ballistic missile.

          Another thing is that the complexity of the first satellite could not be compared with the complexity of the launch vehicle that launched it into space.
          But the creators of the most difficult part, the "seven" - as I have listed
          And the creation of the first satellite affected a lot of people, except for those whose photos are hanging, including the creation of ground-based infrastructure for space flights and other
          Scientists M. V. Keldysh, M. K. Tikhonravov, O. G. Ivanovsky, N. S. Lidorenko, G. Yu. Maksimov worked on the creation of an artificial Earth satellite, led by the founder of practical cosmonautics S. P. Korolev. V.I. Lappo, K.I. Gringauz, B.S. Chekunov, A.V. Bukhtiyarov and many others.

          https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Спутник-1 hi
  11. Van 16
    Van 16 4 January 2020 06: 30
    +11
    Everything is correct in the article. The system has changed dramatically, the priority is the salary of directors and superiors, rather than workers and engineers. And not new technologies and equipment. And this does not happen - you don’t pay money and get the result.
    1. victor50
      victor50 4 January 2020 12: 26
      +3
      Quote: Van 16
      And this does not happen - you don’t pay money and get the result.

      They pay money. For loyalty and devotion. In order to increase the income of the payer.
  12. Van 16
    Van 16 4 January 2020 06: 36
    +4
    By the way, just for example, in Soviet times, a person leaves a defense plant for another enterprise (which was quite rare, and the salaries were good and other buns), so he was torn off with his hands, because a good specialist and knows all new machines, now Time from the same plant is unlikely to be taken on the side, well, if only with a big decrease, everywhere he is greeted with the first question: "Oh, are you all working on the same old stuff?"
  13. sagitch
    sagitch 4 January 2020 06: 45
    +6
    In all countries that are engaged in such developments, accidents happen, not only in Russia.
    To people, maybe people come across pests, so it's not because of the salary. Look, for example, our managers, managers, receive billions, and all one pests.
  14. nikvic46
    nikvic46 4 January 2020 06: 50
    +8
    It’s not clear much. Why does a worker doing jewelry work get less than a worker who does a lot of rough work. I hear on TV that Yakutia is the most subsidized region in the country. But what about diamond mining? 95% mined diamonds in the country. Or have diamonds become cheaper? And everywhere questions, questions.
    1. The popuas
      The popuas 4 January 2020 07: 42
      +8
      What does the workers have to do with it !? They do not sell diamonds, they mine them! But who sells, the lion's share in their pocket, and the workers on the residual principle! The same thing is happening in healthcare and education now, directors and pets get it, and the rest get leftovers from the table!
  15. Strashila
    Strashila 4 January 2020 06: 52
    +9
    The words of the cat Matroskin "we have money, we have no brains" are appropriate here.
    Under the banner of the struggle against the ideas of communism, the planned state socialist economic system was destroyed.
    A plane or a rocket, this is the result of the work of hundreds of companies that many key ones were competently optimized from zero in the 90s by young reformers under the direction of comrades from the State Department.
    The attempt to use purchases abroad did not justify itself in terms of accessibility and quality.
    Modern entrepreneurs can neither build a Yo-mobile, nor a plant for a green lard that went bankrupt at the construction stage.
    So, the designer and production work with what is.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 10: 44
      +8
      Quote: Strashila
      A plane or a rocket, this is the result of the work of hundreds of companies that many key ones were competently optimized from zero in the 90s by young reformers under the direction of comrades from the State Department.


      But such machines were in our school. Let Rogozins go to the garage to this man and learn to work.
      1. Strashila
        Strashila 4 January 2020 13: 33
        +2
        Stalin's slogan is more alive than all living things ... "STAFF IS DECIDING EVERYTHING."
        And our domestic, fit in place with a chisel and sledgehammer.
        The fact that this person needs to learn is a fact.
        Such people must be protected, like the apple of an eye.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 13: 49
          +2
          Quote: Strashila
          The fact that this person needs to learn is a fact.
          Such people must be protected, like the apple of an eye.

          Yes, the guy’s hands are growing from the right place. It was already enviable. I like tinkering myself, but I could hardly have come up with this. For such a device is not ashamed to give a bonus. good And the designers will either overweight the plane, or they will have a drone from the Russian Post. And then a guy on his knee in the garage created a masterpiece using a school machine.
          1. Strashila
            Strashila 4 January 2020 14: 35
            0
            At the level of the Soviet aircraft modeling circle.
            Simple tasks require simple solutions, not far-fetched troubles.
            Moreover, everything is collected from the store.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 05
              +2
              Quote: Strashila
              At the level of the Soviet aircraft modeling circle.

              When I was a child, I also went to the aircraft modeling club "Young Technician", but we did much more primitive things, and only the tip for missiles could be carved on the machine. And here he has a drawing, and a grinder, and welding, and soldering and painting and rolling and drilling and sawing. It is a pleasure to see how it works.
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 23
              +1
              Quote: Strashila
              Moreover, everything is collected from the store.

              And you just watched the video?
              1. Strashila
                Strashila 4 January 2020 17: 53
                0
                Yes, I looked ... or according to your old tradition, he took everything from a neighboring machine factory.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 18: 28
                  -1
                  Quote: Strashila
                  Yes, I looked ... or according to your old tradition, he took everything from a neighboring machine factory.

                  You’re wondering, but where can he get the same stainless steel on the engine for an airplane, how not to buy it? Or the same blank that he turned? However, you can buy not only in the store, I recently built a fence, I bought pipes on poles at the scrap metal collection point. By the way, I, for example, made a camping turbine stove from an old Chinese stainless steel thermos. He didn’t throw out a broken thermos, he let it go. And at the points of reception of which you just can’t find, our bourgeois also sometimes buys blanks there for cheap.
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 17
            -2
            In the USSR, heavy planes were not the same a lot - and this also was not an unsolvable problem.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 42
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              In the USSR, heavy planes were not the same a lot - and this also was not an unsolvable problem.

              Airplanes have been making for a hundred years. The IL-112V designer blamed the younger generation. Have learned to count. My neighbor, a teacher of materials science, confirmed that the level of students had dropped. Some guys don't even know what a threaded connection is. The question is, why did such a person come to a technical institute? And simply, to get crusts, although he has never even repaired a bicycle in his life. The neighbor went nuts: "What kind of kid are you if you never twisted a bolt or a screw in your life?" Well, about IL here is the link.
              http://militariorg.ucoz.ru/publ/publ_1/vzlet_i_padenie_rossijskoj_aviacii_my_razuchilis_stroit_samolety/15-1-0-92352
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 45
                -2
                You are his full interview, read all the charges there are not - all the same problems that were in the design and production as in the USSR. And you tell others about the threaded connection.
          3. region58
            region58 6 January 2020 02: 26
            +2
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            It was already enviable.

            Yeah ... I thought - I’ll take a quick look ... And in one breath more than an hour ... Enviously, yes ... For good, of course. Although he, too, dabble in homemade goods.
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Let Rogozins go to the garage to this man

            But this is by no means. stop Otherwise kirdyk to the whole garage.
  16. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 4 January 2020 06: 55
    +26
    Ah, the author, everything is much worse than you think!
    Do you think that if you bring money into these sectors, then everything will work out? No one to pay them! Those. there are people with diplomas, but the value of these diplomas ...
    I have been working in the higher education system for many years and I’ll say frankly - it is in a catastrophic situation and all its "reforms" are the rearrangement of chairs on the deck of the Titanic. The main task of today's universities is to make money. The main task of teachers is to keep the contingent! And as a result, anyone gets diplomas, just to pay, and this leads to the degradation of even intelligent students. In our current university, we are training technicians for railways. and I'm scared to think what will happen when these lazy people start building bridges and tunnels. It's better to let the SIM cards sell ...
    And I'm sure metastases go all over the system. Aviation universities are no exception.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 09: 28
      +7
      Quote: Sahalinets
      And I'm sure metastases go all over the system. Aviation universities are no exception.

      Degradation is best noticeable in medicine - a new generation of doctors get their jobs for money, and they want to fight them off as soon as possible. A familiar doctor of the old school said ten years ago - "If something serious - go straight to Samara." But once the Tolyatti medical town was the best hospital in the region. hi
  17. bober1982
    bober1982 4 January 2020 07: 04
    +1
    It was in the 2010s that the scientific and technological failure in Russia finally became clear, copyright quote.
    It's hard not to say, but - the author is very dull, if only he knew about the final failure in the 2010s.
    And, about Japan and feudalism, he also "piled up", and not competently, and out of place.
  18. Alevil
    Alevil 4 January 2020 07: 06
    +3
    So everything seems to be correct, but too much causticity is not the case.

    And more (quote): "After a century and a half, the results showed themselves in all their glory just off the coast (and on the coast) of the Crimea so beloved by our patriots."
    What's the problem here? Yes, it is understandable that in the 19th century Russia lagged behind England and France technologically due to the backward system of government and public relations, but why write about Crimea, "beloved by our patriots"? Or, according to the author, if you respect and admire our ancestors, who mastered and defended the Crimea, then you are a backward obscurantist? Or maybe all the "advanced, advanced and handshake people" from one word "Crimea" should frown and shout: "Crimea is Ukraine! We are power here! Russia will be free!" In fact, reunification with Crimea is one of the few right things that this system has done in Russia, and if the same right decisions were made in terms of development and economy (contrary to the liberoid paradigm), then our country would be quite developing and prosperous ...
    1. Olezhek
      4 January 2020 19: 13
      +3
      Yes, it is understandable that in the 19th century Russia lagged behind England and France technologically due to the backward system of government and public relations, but why write about Crimea, "beloved by our patriots"?


      And it is not superfluous to recall the Crimean War and the reasons for the defeat.
      There, Nicholas the First (Palkin), with all his might over the army and navy, ruled the whole board ...
      He invested all the money there, Constantinople was made to take ...
      and then suddenly - steamboats and fittings ...
      such a cholera ...
      1. Alevil
        Alevil 4 January 2020 19: 58
        +3
        Technological backwardness is not a reason to give up one’s interests, all the more so as not a reason to turn Russian people over to tear apart all evil spirits. As for the Crimea in 2014, even a mild Ukrainization would not be much better than this very tear. As for the Crimea 1853-1856, then, despite the steamboats and fittings, the Western coalition did not achieve even a small part of what it was counting on. The British, by the way, had just grandiose plans, but they broke their teeth in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, the Baltic, and the White Sea. And the French made a grandiose miscalculation at all by participating in this coalition (perhaps one of the most ambitious in their entire history), which they and their dumb emperor fully felt in their own skin in 1870-1871. So, often, enormous technological superiority does not give the desired result and, moreover, does not give any right to the lagging side to surrender their interests without a fight.
        I do not in any way justify Nicholas 1. I think that he lost a huge amount of historical time; did not start development, but on the contrary froze it; trusted foreigners too much in the management of Russia; overly respected and was confident in the decency of "our Western partners"; did not destroy the Austrian Empire in time, helping her to suppress the uprising of the Hungarians and much, much more.
        1. Olezhek
          4 January 2020 20: 15
          +2
          As for the Crimea 1853-1856, then, despite the steamboats and fittings, the Western coalition did not achieve even a small part of what it was counting on. The British, by the way, had just grandiose plans, but then they broke their teeth


          The question is precisely - Nikolai the First was engaged in the army, the army and again the army.
          And then it turned out ... that the technological era has changed

          he lost a tremendous amount of historical time; did not start development, but rather froze it


          This is exactly what this conversation is about - waking up was unpleasant
          Talk about this.
          1. Alevil
            Alevil 4 January 2020 20: 57
            +4
            I agree in your article that the entire current state policy and the system of peripheral capitalism, built by the liberals in the 90s and, in essence, remained unchanged under Putin, leads Russia to backwardness. The questions cause some seemingly nuances that are valuable, and therefore the most important. Moreover, I believe that the real development of Russia will begin exactly when Russia will get rid of its largely neocolonial and peripheral status, and this may not appeal to many and lead to many conflicts. And one needs to be mentally prepared for these conflicts, despite the backwardness.
  19. SOVIET UNION 2
    SOVIET UNION 2 4 January 2020 07: 25
    +13
    Under the so-called market economy, “non-targeted expenses” began to be cut in the first place: salaries and social expenses. And the market leveling for ordinary employees has flourished with magnificent colors: everyone is paid almost equally little.
    N yes! However! And some are rubbing us into the birthmarks of socialism!
    But Nicholas II, even after the defeat from Japan, was not ready for such a decisive reversal (nobles, large landowners - the support of the throne).
    Even after US sanctions, Russia is not ready for a decisive reversal from the West!
    And, unlike the times of the USSR, they live in the same economic system. Want to get an apartment? Take a mortgage!
    Do not tell! Some live in the system of socialism and communism, those who are above. Others in the capitalist system. One benefits and social guarantees, the other requirements. Is the system of social guarantees not socialism and communism? Well, the boss, the deputy, the official wanted to make such a salary. what's this? You do not cause a break in the template news? Capitalism is an economic rationale! Well, where is the business case? Why is the minimum wage exactly 12 thousand, not 120 thousand? Why is the salary of an official or deputy such? What business case? The boss wrote himself a salary or bonus on what economic justification? Didn’t you ask yourself such questions? Well, where is the effectiveness if the patches are assigned to themselves from a flashlight? And if income needs to be provided for the family? Well, what the hell efficiency !? And is not a mortgage a serfdom in a modern round of history?
  20. rocket757
    rocket757 4 January 2020 07: 30
    -6
    The dodger came. Affectors have an attack of self-flagellation.
    In principle, nothing new has been written .... in principle, there are more than one reason, but self-flagellation has never helped in anything.
  21. 2112vda
    2112vda 4 January 2020 08: 42
    +4
    The cause of all the disruptions in the aerospace industry is stupidly simple. Everything is run by "effective" or "defective" managers. Now another "masterpiece" is being sculpted from the "Aurus" engine for civil aircraft. I have one simple question for them. Gentlemen, do you even read books? Again, in the best traditions of "skakuas", all the same "rake dances". Well, we already went through all this in the 40s of the last century. All over the world, after 1945, civil aviation aircraft were operated with air-cooled aircraft engines, this is before the transition to gas turbine engines and theaters. Now again "a repetition of the past." How much can you?
  22. U-58
    U-58 4 January 2020 09: 00
    +6
    I can’t speak for the whole country, but for the aerospace industry, quite.
    The author raised the most relevant topic.
    Voros salary is the key at the moment in the issue of personnel.
    Those very hands of labor, which will be called "golden hands."
    Enterprises, having gone to the pride of "joint-stock companies", are building the usual capitalistic practice: greater profit at the lowest cost.
    And first of all, due to the salary of staff (performers).
    The executives do not limit themselves, simultaneously letting the nearest khan's circle live.
    The level of salaries of workers is now being adjusted not to the importance of the tasks performed, but to the average indicators for the region, for the industry in this region, for the salary of neighboring enterprises, regardless of industry affiliation.
    Therefore, often a worker in a trolleybus depot across the road can receive as much, if not more, than a worker producing parts of a rocket, engine, control system.
    Belonging to the aviation or space industry does not cause pride.
    This leads to the fact that random people appear on such enterprises.
    They do not give a damn about the high status of products, the highest requirements for them.
    They came to earn.
    Well, it won't "roll", so they go to the same trolleybus depot, to the candle factory ...
    The requirements there are incommensurably less, the salary is the same ...
    Neither the salary nor the prestige holds the worker (controller, foreman, technologist).
    Again, the ongoing "optimization" leads to a reduction in staffing.
    With a subsequent set of the same staff units.
    And the fact that they have reduced more or less qualified personnel, and scored it is not known what (yes, it is known that and to whom) leads to a drop in production culture, mass rejection and as a result ..
    Well, clearly, what leads.
    General underfunding, carried out in order to save the budget, which, as it turned out, is not so poor, affects primarily grassroots performers.
    The authorities, it will not offend itself in any financial situation.
    Therefore, it is impossible to limit oneself to rare complaints about low salaries.
    It is necessary to turn the consciousness, to conduct a specific policy for the training and stabilization of personnel.
    If now is the time for money, then let's do it "from the ruble".
    1. depressant
      depressant 4 January 2020 15: 04
      +4
      Colleague, you forgot to mention that managers, by their ignorance, allow the replacement of expensive grades of materials for products with cheap ones whose strength is lower, accident rate increases. There have been cases.
      But the opportunity to put the saved in your pocket also increases.
      1. U-58
        U-58 4 January 2020 15: 48
        +4
        I know how to replace a progressive tool with an affordable and cheaper one and what it leads to.
        I have not heard about the replacement of structural materials ...
        Unless within the standard
        1. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2020 18: 59
          +4
          Quote: U-58
          I have not heard about the replacement of structural materials ...

          On Kuznetsovo, this is in the order of things.
          It took titanium for stamping, bought it, started stamping, cracked. They began to understand, found out the titanium of this brand, but very old, but bought cheaper. What to do, do the parts crack? Details made, welded cracks, details polished. Everyone knew everything, but they pretended to be so.
          Why did the plane (rocket, steamboat, steam locomotive) crash, explode, break? But the devil knows, probably the sanctions are to blame ...
  23. parusnik
    parusnik 4 January 2020 09: 14
    +8
    ... Well, this is one side of the coin, as indicated by the author. In our area, under the totalitarian regime, there were vocational schools taught to tractor drivers, after 8th grade, a classmate went there to study, graduated with honors, went to work in the Moscow region in distribution, apparently there weren’t enough staff there ... The nephew, already now, graduated from the Krasnodar Polytechnic, didn’t send him anywhere, look for work yourself, maybe you’ll fit somewhere until he joined the army .. But he’s not the only one ... Yes, they’re required experts with experience ... Father is trying to take on his own production, he is told that we have our children ...
  24. high
    high 4 January 2020 09: 19
    +11
    The casket just opens:
    - On May 2, 2017, it became known that Alexei Rogozin, the son of Dmitry Rogozin, was approved by the General Director of IL.
    - The son of the former head of the presidential administration, Sergei Ivanov, Sergei Ivanov Jr., became the new head of the ALROSA diamond mining company.
    - Dmitry Patrushev, the eldest son of Secretary of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, was appointed Minister of Agriculture on May 18, 2018 ....
    - Andrei Patrushev, the youngest son of the Secretary of the Security Council, is Chairman of the Board of Directors of CenterKaspneftegaz
    - Sergey Matvienko, the son of the chairman of the Federation Council, Valentina Matvienko, is a co-owner of eight companies.
    - Pavel Fradkov, son of the former head of government Mikhail Fradkov, deputy managing director of the president .......

    https://www.rbc.ru/photoreport/06/06/2017/58b416609a7947e593629ec0
  25. starev
    starev 4 January 2020 09: 23
    +11
    Good afternoon!
    I will express myself in the text of this article as the head of a small manufacturing company.
    1. Significantly reduce taxes on payroll;
    2. Allow to take into account payroll expenses when calculating VAT;
    3. To force, finally, the state to really reduce its operating expenses for the functioning of the bureaucracy throughout the country as compensation for the shortfall in state revenues from the first two points.
    And then the payment of a good engineer is 200-300 thousand rubles. it won't be fiction.
    Because the head of the enterprise, from a financial point of view, does not matter whether to spend part of the profit of the enterprise on increasing the payroll of the employees of the enterprise or to pay the same money as VAT and income tax.
    And from a practical point of view, a well-motivated engineer can do a lot of good for the company.
    Now, our "beautiful" state withdraws practically all free money from enterprises as direct and indirect taxes! What kind of development and stimulation of employees is there ...
    And for the production of consumer goods there is a very clear cut-off at the price of products. If the price of your products is more than the price of the Chinese analogue + the cost of delivery of the Russian Federation, then your goods most likely will not be sold in any significant quantities.
    So you think, or take a new machine on lease, or hire a good specialist, or pay all taxes.
    All together in this state cannot be done.
    1. naidas
      naidas 4 January 2020 12: 15
      +1
      Quote: starev
      And then the payment of a good engineer is 200-300 thousand rubles. it won't be fiction.

      And the engineer will fuck up:
      An acquaintance is developing missiles - once he swore and drilled holes at random. Yes, and to get something done from a turner, you need to not only bow to the belt, but also crawl on your knees.
    2. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2020 19: 02
      +2
      Quote: starev
      So you think, or take a new machine on lease, or hire a good specialist,

      But what for take a new machine, if there is no good specialist for this machine in the payroll fund to pay for the RFP? So we work on NTs-31 of 1982 of a birth.
  26. unknown
    unknown 4 January 2020 09: 26
    +11
    Power is at the merchant estate.
    More precisely, the trading class seized this power as a result of an endless series of "orange" revolutions, called "bourgeois", "socialist", "democratic".
    The commercial estate is not interested in the development of productive forces.
    Creation of new industries is difficult, time consuming and expensive.
    Trading is more profitable.
    And it’s even more profitable to engage in usury, lending money at interest.
    It was usury, when a religious sect with signs of estates formed itself into a "separate people" and became the main reason for the persecution of the "self-chosen".
    1. bobwings
      bobwings 4 January 2020 10: 37
      +3
      These very self-chosen religious sectarians were the color of Soviet science. Brilliant scientists, talented engineers, the best doctors ... The representatives of this "sect", after the revolution gave them the opportunity to develop normally, for some 30 years made an absolutely disproportionate contribution to the development of the country ... Even in brands such as MiG , Mi, La there are capital letters of their "sectarian" surnames. And then people like you began to squeeze them out of all spheres, refuse admission to the best universities for talents, insult, blame them for all their troubles ... So they left, and now their children will remember the same contribution to the science of your potential opponents.
      1. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 4 January 2020 14: 53
        +1
        Are you sure you left?
        "Capital letters" are not always what they deserve. And where one "sectarian" ended up, soon there will be a "Promised Land"
      2. ultra
        ultra 4 January 2020 20: 12
        +1
        Quote: bobwings
        And then people like you started squeezing them out of all areas, denying talent to the best universities

        Bullshit. wassat
    2. 2112vda
      2112vda 4 January 2020 20: 58
      +2
      Everything is correct. Democracy is the rule of the "demos". Demos, in ancient Greece, were called merchants, small slave owners and small artisans who also had slaves. Then the traders ruled and now too.
  27. Victor N
    Victor N 4 January 2020 09: 44
    -2
    What did you want to write about? I would use training proposals, but .....
  28. nikolaj1703
    nikolaj1703 4 January 2020 09: 52
    +5
    The system of relationships must be changed. Do not count GDP, develop production and training. Stalin I.V. said: "Cadres decide EVERYTHING!" You need to feed better then they won't fly away!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 50
      -2
      Production develops as the market needs, there is a demand - there will be a plant, a factory - there will be an offer.
      1. Alf
        Alf 5 January 2020 17: 14
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        Production develops as the market needs, there is a demand - there will be a plant, a factory - there will be an offer.

        The factories are shouting - locksmiths, turners and milling cutters are needed, and universities for some reason only drive lawyers-managers. Where is the "hand of the market"?
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 5 January 2020 17: 30
          +1
          Quote: Alf
          The factories scream, we need locksmiths, turners and milling cutters, but for some reason universities only drive lawyers and managers

          Yes. This difficult time is the beginning of the year. So many holidays, so many reasons not to drink wink

          1. Who are the "milling cutters" about whom the factories are "shouting"?
          2. What are these factories that "scream"? They are stupid, factories - tell them a salary of at least fifty dollars in your hands - and you will have "milling cutters" ... why shout something?
          3. When did universities prepare "milling cutters"? Buddy Vasily, be careful, be careful ... New Year is such a thing, here you need to be smart laughing
  29. 1536
    1536 4 January 2020 10: 00
    +7
    Yes, everything is simple: talk with engineers in the production, at a research institute or design bureau. All questions will be answered. There are no orders from either the state or our glorious Forbes members. Successful startups go west or to China. There is no freedom in choosing those or components, parts, raw materials, etc., because either this is not all, or it belongs to some uncle who wanted to fly your planes from the high bell tower, he has his own.
    In Soviet times, the government set a task, allocated money for it, monitored the deadline, and accepted work. If this work was not done on time, at best it was the design bureau, research institute or plant did not receive more orders, at worst it was merged with some more successful enterprise, and what was spent was not returned to the budget and people continued to guaranteed to receive what they did not earn. For better or worse, it worked. The branches of the "A" group, as they were called in the Soviet economy, cannot be regulated only by market principles of management. Not a single enterprise in the world today producing advanced technology, machine tools and equipment operates without the support of the state. There is no need to talk today about the enterprises of Group B at all, since they no longer exist in the Soviet sense of the word. These enterprises today are completely market-oriented, but in order to produce something, they go bow to Western investors in order to get at least something that will allow them to produce products or are simply engaged in the resale of what is produced in Southeast Asia or China.
    Ask the engineers who worked in the 1980s what they lacked in that life, what was in the way? Many of them are still alive today, they remember those years very well. Some even remember why they chose the Councils of labor collectives, putting at the head of a drunkard director or secretary of the party committee. After hearing their answer, taking note of it, analyzing, you can change everything for the better in a matter of years. If desired, of course.
  30. Nait
    Nait 4 January 2020 10: 03
    -1
    Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not! And the director of a large plant could not bathe in luxury against the background of hungry turners and technologists. Therefore, the result was. Disappointing results in medicine and education are less noticeable. But planes and missiles ... you can’t hide it. In fact, it’s not just the new, the old, and the alien that are being exploited with difficulty.


    Like if Rogozin and the bosses cut their salaries lower and divide by all in the industry, something will change. Copecks will be added to the salary.
    It’s just that Russia has such a Cosmos for which it has enough money.
    It’s also a military unit to support and develop - otherwise there will be nothing to grieve about ....
    In general, I am surprised at how it is possible to maintain the existing level and somehow develop it.
    After all, GLONASS is supported (you don’t need to go out, that it is not needed, not accurate - it's just stupid),
    The ships were converted to digital, created booster blocks, they are building a Cosmodrome,
    make Angara-5, sawing Zenit Soyuz-5 (Irtysh), ... launched Spectrum-RG - that's all, damn it, it's bad - right?
    Or manned space flight - only Russia has it in its normal form.

    Simply put, rockets began to fall. And this began to happen very long before Rogozin. And every time an investigation, trial ... allegedly measures were taken

    Not supposedly, but measures were taken - last year all launches were successful.
    Open your eyes.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 4 January 2020 17: 52
      +2
      Like if Rogozin and the bosses cut their salaries lower and divide by all in the industry, something will change.
      If the workers are not skilled, then right, this will not help. But you misunderstand the situation, you need to pay a lot only for skilled workers and this is one of the measures, and money must be allowed for vocational education in this industry and for training personnel. Well, a high salary is needed so that the cadres do not scatter.
      Is it really not clear?
      1. Olezhek
        4 January 2020 19: 09
        +3
        you need to pay a lot only to skilled workers and this is one of the measures, and money must be allowed for vocational education in this industry and for training personnel. Well, a high salary is needed so that the cadres do not scatter.


        Like that, but for now ...

  31. erofich
    erofich 4 January 2020 10: 06
    +3
    It remains to call for barricades. It seems to me a little more, and many will support it.
    1. 16329
      16329 4 January 2020 13: 19
      +3
      Who will call? Again large business and often affiliated with it officials and generals, or passengers of sealed wagons, or the “advanced” part of the nomenclature, who do you prefer as a person calling for barricades?
  32. jekasimf
    jekasimf 4 January 2020 10: 11
    +4
    And nothing will change. The authorities have "effective managers". And they are the backbone of the throne. And everyone who breaks into the chiefs will live in one day. Children in Britain, money in offshore.
    1. 16329
      16329 4 January 2020 13: 21
      0
      Children in Britain are assimilating, money will be diverted offshore, and then what?
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 4 January 2020 17: 54
        -1
        And then our country will fall apart.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 53
        -1
        These children studying abroad are only 10000, those who study in Russia are more than a million.
      3. jekasimf
        jekasimf 5 January 2020 23: 30
        0
        And then a new generation will grow up, longing for power and a good life.
  33. Nait
    Nait 4 January 2020 10: 19
    -5
    The fact that they created the Vanguard, hypersound, Sarmat (passed the throw tests) ... says that
    that the system can mobilize and create advanced technology.
    And that means there are people who can create this technique.
    I don’t want to say what else is there - I think there is also an understanding that we need to grow, cook
    and retain industry professionals.

    Let's hope that this will be reflected in the civilian Cosmos.
    The fact that the last year was trouble-free indicates that we are busy with the problem.

    In general, thanks to the sanctions, they cleared the liberal brains of those who still run the economy.
    It became clear that the principles of the WTO do not work - whoever has more clubs - that is right.
    The club is not only military.

    For example, I see that suddenly suddenly saw upstairs that Russian airlines DO NOT use Russian planes at all. It can be said at all.
    And then more attention was paid to the MS-21, IL-114 ...
    At least, the started projects will be completed - there is no doubt about it.
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 4 January 2020 14: 48
      +4
      Quote: Nait
      The fact that they created the Vanguard, hypersound, Sarmat (passed the throw tests) ... says that
      that the system can mobilize and create advanced technology.


      This is very good, BUT! Due to what? !!!!

      You do not have to be an oracle or an awesome financier to see how this happened due to the taking of the dough from the already not very rich ones:

      1. Pension "reform"
      2. Raising direct and indirect taxes of citizens.
      3. Tighten all nuts completely.

      You can not endlessly twist the ropes and stretch the last veins. Maybe, instead of just such crazy show-offs and the same crazy child prodigies, can you just give people at least something to settle in in their native country?
    2. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 4 January 2020 17: 59
      +2
      the system can mobilize and create advanced technology.

      While the system uses the old practices of the communists and it is not known what will come of it. Look how the Bulava was created, how many accidents, many already did not believe that it would be put into service.
  34. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 4 January 2020 10: 29
    +4
    Good article. Albeit sad
    1. Olezhek
      4 January 2020 19: 08
      +3


      Yeah .... little fun here
  35. Zusul
    Zusul 4 January 2020 10: 47
    +9
    In general, I agree with the author. The way hard workers pay in our aerospace is a complete tin. For an example of a (real) Energomash plant, a zp master 70k (for which you have to kill), a zp gandir 2,5 lyama (this is after type reduction), a zp ordinary work shop 30-40 k ... And against this background, 2-3 times staff reductions per year (guess from workshops or factory management) to reduce costs. Then, however, they cry that there are not enough people, there is no one to work, and the jamshuts do not know how
    1. Karen
      Karen 5 January 2020 23: 14
      0
      It’s strange ... Once a sidekick told about his former hard worker, turner ... He says that this grandfather moved to the Russian Federation to work on the defense industry, and that, from his words, he receives a stable $ 2500 per month, and if a lot you have to work until late, then three kilobaks give ...
      1. Alf
        Alf 6 January 2020 16: 54
        0
        Quote: Karen
        and if you have to work a lot until late, then three kilobaks give ...

        180 thousand turner? Himself is not funny? Where does this grandpa work? And how many glasses did he buy before saying that?
        1. Karen
          Karen 6 January 2020 16: 57
          0
          No, it's not funny ... Doesn't he consider the option that he and the "left" job is thrown there?
          1. Alf
            Alf 6 January 2020 17: 08
            0
            Quote: Karen
            No, it's not funny ... Doesn't he consider the option that he and the "left" job is thrown there?

            What is it that he does such a left that he’s got so much brains?
            From your message, it becomes clear that without left work he receives what shish. That is, for eight hours he goes for ZP, and then they bring him a leftist, from whom he has 180 thousand? I repeat the question, what is he doing and in what quantities and at what time? Does he have 48 hours in a day?
            Once again, WHERE does it work? At the factory and, especially, from a private trader, this option will not work.
            You can stay at the plant for 2-3 hours and work for yourself, but now control overtime has been tightened and he won’t get such thousands. Breshet your friend as Trotsky ... And you listen to his tales. On my sharaga Kuznetsovo there are turners, though, there are CNC operators who officially have 60-70 thousand, but there they can’t work for 12 hours on a rolling schedule. So let your friend not..this is the most.
  36. Nait
    Nait 4 January 2020 10: 58
    -6
    Quote: erofich
    It remains to call for barricades. It seems to me a little more, and many will support it.

    If they do not support it, it’s your "bad life" there is no place to put it in the yards.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 05
      +5
      If I bought a used foreign car, saving up half my life on it, then am I already rich?
      What kind of intellect must one possess in order to think so?
  37. Nait
    Nait 4 January 2020 11: 04
    -8
    Quote: Zusul
    In general, I agree with the author. The way hard workers pay in our aerospace is a complete tin. For an example of a (real) Energomash plant, a zp master 70k (for which you have to kill), a zp gandir 2,5 lyama (this is after type reduction), a zp ordinary work shop 30-40 k ... And against this background, 2-3 times staff reductions per year (guess from workshops or factory management) to reduce costs. Then, however, they cry that there are not enough people, there is no one to work, and the jamshuts do not know how

    Here is the author, and it seems to you like math taught like Pinocchio with those three apples ....
    You’ll divide the director’s 2.5 lyama into the WHOLE factory - and so what?
    Will the hard workers live right?
    Divide these 2.5 lemas by the number of people working in Energomash, and then write here.
    Not tired yet to procrastinate this topic?
    After all, this is all from the series "select, divide and put the cook to manage ...".

    It is necessary that both hard workers and the director have decent salaries.
    The director of such an office is quite himself and MUST earn more orders of magnitude.
    1. divanka2020
      divanka2020 4 January 2020 11: 44
      -5
      Nait (Ivan) you seem to me to confuse the nerds with the townspeople, of course I admit. that there is a certain part of nerds-philistines, but most of them are still schizoid geeks who can eat moss
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 10
      +5
      The director of such an office is quite himself and MUST earn more orders of magnitude.

      Why is it wrong in America, why is there not so much in Norway and where else is not so? Why in developed countries the wage gap is much smaller?
      Money should be spent on vocational education in the industry and on staff training. Well, a high salary is needed so that the cadres do not scatter.
      Is it really not clear?
  38. Ros 56
    Ros 56 4 January 2020 11: 14
    -11
    After the New Year libations, the outbreak is not recovered. I can send the rope and soap.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 11
      +3
      When there are no arguments, it remains only to be rude.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 5 January 2020 16: 20
        +1
        Do not hell to lie no matter what, to any idiots. This is your Jewish fashion, to blame everything Soviet and Russian.
  39. Vasyl K.
    Vasyl K. 4 January 2020 11: 15
    +3
    Yes, I was finalizing my "term" until retirement under this system, on machines ... And I had no thought to stay there, although, of course, because of a better pension than that of my friends, who did not dare to break away from their summer cottages, the warm climate. Now fate drives them to watchmen when they are not healthy.
    1. 16329
      16329 4 January 2020 13: 26
      +1
      It’s hard to work at all, especially in a factory, to defend a shift, even at a modern processing center, to breathe the vapor of metal, cooling emulsions, lubricants, etc.
      It’s much easier to chat with colleagues of different sexes all day in a mobile phone salon or a large electronics hypermarket.
      Here, even the difference in salary will help with difficulty
      1. Olezhek
        4 January 2020 19: 05
        +3
        It’s hard to work at all, especially in a factory, to defend a shift, even at a modern processing center, to breathe the vapor of metal, cooling emulsions, lubricants, etc.


        1 Not so bad
        2 Work much more complex and much more interesting

        But with payment ... request
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 January 2020 00: 04
          +3
          Quote: Olezhek
          2 Work is much more complicated and much more interesting.

          Egorov, I will look at your enthusiasm if you stand behind the machine in an unheated workshop, at minus 20, pouring parts with emulsion, and melting the machine in the morning with a cutter. It’s the same as in besieged Leningrad. In one workshop there is no heating, in the other - a potbelly stove stands out of a barrel ... With a salary of 15 thousand. Metalworking. In the USSR, this was not even dreamed of in a nightmare. But the bourgeois complains that there is no money for heating. Despite the fact that in the Union in my own enterprise on batteries it was possible to cook soft-boiled eggs.
          1. beeper
            beeper 5 January 2020 13: 14
            +3
            hi Quite right, comrade Mordvin 3, you are painting an "oil painting" - about a "nightmare" and a terrible reality, as it was and as it is (in Ukraine, for hard workers, it is even sadder in general than in Russia!)!
            In winter, in frosts (in less frost, not with a cutter, by hand, wielding a long key in the chuck, like a lever, I "move and walk" an old 1K62 yes so that the drive "wedges" do not get burnt when starting the electric motor), in the workshop, from the solid frozen metal around, bones ache and fingers stick to the metal, but you have to work ...
            During the work shift, this cold is pretty exhausting, because there is almost no benefit from the "bourgeois" in a large frozen workshop - there is only one visibility, only carbon monoxide (in the factory office there is autonomous central heating in winter, and the cabinet air conditioners are equipped for "effective managers" with their relative "Servants" - these parasites are cheerful and rosy-cheeked at any time of the year, they don't care about anything!).
            In Soviet times, in the same factory shops, in the winter they worked in light overalls and on hot steam heating radiators they warmed up their brakes before lunch (and some sly-eyed "workers" burns "tinkered" to mess around on "sick leave" ...).
            Under the Soviet Union, and about "many months of wage arrears" in a nightmare could not have dreamed, but with "independence" it became an ordinary mass "phenomenon"! request
      2. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2020 19: 19
        +5
        Quote: 16329
        Here, even the difference in salary will help with difficulty

        That is precisely why, in the times of the USSR, films, books, newspapers glorified precisely the "man of labor", that is, the one who exactly created something, no matter whether a worker or an engineer. This is called "propaganda", and now the ideal of a person is being created in the form of a banker, advertiser or official, that is, a category that does not produce anything, but is, in fact, a parasite.
  40. Givi_49
    Givi_49 4 January 2020 11: 21
    -9
    The author’s efforts crashed on the scale of the problem. Brain bunch.
    1. agond
      agond 4 January 2020 12: 01
      -1
      They say that to become a good turner you need to work 15-20 years, a friend who has worked for 48 years and says he is still studying, and Ford said that you can teach any person from the street to do one operation in a few lessons, and it’s nice to perform, but only one , in America it was understood a hundred years ago, and we ignore it, everywhere universal workers are a reaper, and then they wonder why everything is crooked and why it fell.
      1. Olezhek
        4 January 2020 19: 04
        +3
        They say that to become a good turner you need to work 15-20 years


        Well damn it - you are somehow overkill ...
        But five years is necessary (after vocational school-technical school)
  41. divanka2020
    divanka2020 4 January 2020 11: 41
    -10
    Tesla mask brings profit, it may well be a super-tech sphere successful for business,
    that is, the costs of staff nerds pay off more than
    and in the USSR, all from under the stick worked it can not be compared)
    1. 16329
      16329 4 January 2020 13: 34
      -1
      Tesla brings loss, not profit
      Electric cars are generally not bought, but leased
      An electric car is a low-tech cart on wheels compared to a modern ICE car
      The transition to the production of electric vehicles in Germany, for example, will lead to a reduction in the number of highly qualified personnel and a decrease in the number of people employed in industry
      As soon as industry is killed, the standard of living falls immediately, because in the services and trade sectors no one pays serious salaries to the mass worker
      Example, Ruhr region of the same Germany
    2. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2020 19: 21
      +3
      Quote: divanka2020
      and in the USSR, all from under the stick worked it can not be compared)

      In which USSR, early Khrushchev or late Brezhnev?
  42. Zusul
    Zusul 4 January 2020 11: 47
    +2
    Quote: Nait
    Quote: Zusul
    In general, I agree with the author. The way hard workers pay in our aerospace is a complete tin. For an example of a (real) Energomash plant, a zp master 70k (for which you have to kill), a zp gandir 2,5 lyama (this is after type reduction), a zp ordinary work shop 30-40 k ... And against this background, 2-3 times staff reductions per year (guess from workshops or factory management) to reduce costs. Then, however, they cry that there are not enough people, there is no one to work, and the jamshuts do not know how

    Here is the author, and it seems to you like math taught like Pinocchio with those three apples ....
    You’ll divide the director’s 2.5 lyama into the WHOLE factory - and so what?
    Will the hard workers live right?
    Divide these 2.5 lemas by the number of people working in Energomash, and then write here.
    Not tired yet to procrastinate this topic?
    After all, this is all from the series "select, divide and put the cook to manage ...".

    It is necessary that both hard workers and the director have decent salaries.
    The director of such an office is quite himself and MUST earn more orders of magnitude.

    And then take away and divide? Maybe it would be more logical for real employees to raise salary, so that the saying "for such an salary, I should not only do nothing, but also harm a little" passed from the category of bitter truth to the category of stupid jokes?
  43. oligofren32
    oligofren32 4 January 2020 11: 53
    -7
    He imagined that somewhere in a parallel universe, and specifically in the state of Michigan, such a star-striped patriot sits on a swollen couch and reasons why their starliner doesn’t get to a given orbit and the wunderwaffles from Saint Iloni explode on the starting table roofing felts from applying pressure to the tanks roofing felts from their assembly with a sledgehammer. Everything is lost! Trump FSE leaked! If only we had a prosperous liberal Russia and a trouble-free Roskosmos for 2019. Although not, some kind of nonsense
    Threat overweight IL-112 and a starliner that didn’t get to the orbit are the result of corruption or lack of proper competence in a country whose Disney capitalization is many times more than Gazprom? Although no, there are different situations, you need to understand!
    1. divanka2020
      divanka2020 4 January 2020 11: 56
      -3
      I think you don’t know what they think, the USA has 300 years of market, they are brains in comparison with us
      1. 16329
        16329 4 January 2020 13: 42
        -1
        It is interesting to observe people who now believe sincerely in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxons over all and sincerely worship them, as they met those, they are usually from the territories between Russia and Eastern European countries
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 18
          +1
          Yes, they do not have much superiority, on the contrary, but why were they able to create a more just society? Why do they live 4 times richer (I found such data on the average statistical resident in the network)? WHY?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 4 January 2020 23: 09
            -2
            The superiority of the USA in the market compared with Russia is the most striking example of this company and the US brands have captured the whole world from gears to aircraft construction and electronics. And now compare how many of the same brands that are now widespread the USSR left for Russia.
          2. 16329
            16329 5 January 2020 00: 31
            0
            I did not find much justice in their society, someone lives richer, and someone poorer, others absolutely climate, territories, culture, religion, mentality, degree of openness and integration of the economy, markets, refinancing rates, place in the global economy, etc.
            I tried their system from the inside out, I know it enough, I have never been a fan of it, but this is how my career has developed, now I really regret that it happened, I'll see how it will be in the future
            From my point of view, we need to soberly evaluate ourselves, our pros and cons, understand our interests and the point of view of our opponents, internal and external. to be consistent and not indulge in despondency, because despondency is a mortal sin
      2. Olezhek
        4 January 2020 20: 38
        +2
        the USA has 300 years of market, they are brains in comparison with us


        no
    2. Olezhek
      4 January 2020 20: 39
      0
      He imagined that somewhere in a parallel universe, specifically in the state of Michigan, such a star-striped patriot sits on a swollen couch and reasons why their starliner doesn’t get to a given orbit and the wunderwaffles from holy ilyon explode on the starting table roofing felts from applying pressure to the tanks roofing felts from their assembly with a sledgehammer.


      By the way, yes - Americans are crying frankly about the lack of modern fighter jets.
      There is such a topic.
      What's so surprising?
  44. Olgovich
    Olgovich 4 January 2020 12: 08
    0
    It is enough to recall the epic with the "Mace". By the way, how did it end there? And is it over? That is, we suddenly came up against the fact that a new promising missile for submarine launch vehicles just doesn't fly.

    what an amazing author: it covers a topic on which .... knows nothing and is even forced to ask .... readers. belay request
    Enlighten then about the volley rhinestone 4x - Mace:
    if they do not "fly" then someone can safely stand in place ... NON-fall. yes

    By the way, we will tell the author that Maces the percentage of successful launches is higher than that of a similar predecessor of the SOVIET missile for submarines R-29RM

    And Poplars, by the way, also fly.

    new aircraft (of various classes) were created quite regularly

    beauty!
    Only .... why didn’t they conquer the WHOLE WORLD after the Iron Curtain fell, comrade. author?
    Why didn’t they rush to buy, such wonderful ones? And what's more, have you been banned from flying to your airports?

    The author is not aware, apparently, that they were called in the West ... "kerosene destruction plants", and the noise and emissions far exceeded all conceivable standards.

    By the way, no one really knew how much and what fell in the USSR, so "everything was fine"
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 9 January 2020 18: 06
      0
      By the way, we will tell the author that Bulava has a percentage of successful launches higher than that of a similar predecessor of the SOVIET missile for the R-29RM submarine

      Hello Andrei.
      What do you think? And then there is a suspicion that you did not understand the question a little. Maybe I'm wrong, but there are prerequisites for such a thought.
      Only .... why didn’t they conquer the WHOLE WORLD after the Iron Curtain fell, comrade. author?
      Why didn’t they rush to buy, such wonderful ones?

      For example, the DS-90 was a good aircraft. Why has he not received distribution? The answer to this question and yours above is one and the same.
      And who was to conquer? Were interested persons? I don’t remember. Since you are the director of a construction company, you must understand when it is real and when not to occupy a niche in an already formed market. "Three hundred and thirty-fourth" was no worse than neither Embraer, nor Airbus, nor Boeing in terms of efficiency at a lower cost, and what, the Russian Federation conquered the world? No. China, despite all its current power, cannot push through either the C919 or the ARJ21. Even through leasing. Because it is not so much the aircraft and their technical characteristics that compete - the infrastructure and the availability of maintenance and repair (more precisely, spare parts for repair) are competing, for which the old companies of the market always have an advantage over the new ones.
      And what's more, have you been banned from flying to your airports?
      The author is not aware, apparently, that in the West they were called ... "factories for the destruction of kerosene", and the noise and emissions far exceeded all conceivable standards.

      Banned? When? In the 2000s? Airplanes of the 1970s? At the time of the collapse of the Union were not banned? Were not. And then, imagine, DS-8 is also already banned. Just everything has its time. And certainly this does not mean that McDonald made bad planes. The fact that ICAO is tightening standards over and over again is probably normal. But projecting the norms of the present into the past is probably not normal.
      To replace the planes of the 80s in the USSR, there was a generation of the 90s - Tu-204, Tu-334, An-218. What can you say about how these planes fit into the "norms" (even modern ones)?
  45. Nait
    Nait 4 January 2020 12: 10
    -2
    Quote: Zusul
    And then take away and divide? Maybe it would be more logical for real employees to raise salary, so that the saying "for such an salary, I should not only do nothing, but also harm a little" passed from the category of bitter truth to the category of stupid jokes?

    Why then lumpenize about the salaries of directors?
    This is actually called inciting social discord ....
    And besides the article it does not produce anything productive.

    In order to raise all salaries, it is necessary to raise the economy, and with this the liberal brotherhood is not very good.
    Somehow such capitalism does not fit into Russian realities.
    More precisely, they correctly said here - the stage of capital accumulation.
    Read Theodore Dreiser - how it all was there even at the beginning of the 20th century.
    Workers in the ass, stealing everything that is possible and all who can.

    But again, judging by the results of the creation of advanced military equipment,
    still there is personnel and there is potential.
    Enough of the brain will not completely erupt.

    Interestingly, the old model of socialism will no longer work in Russia,
    but no new one was invented.
    The Chinese version also does not roll.
    Indeed, many do not know that it is not a social state.
    For example, pensions began to be paid AT ALL recently and only a very small part of "pensioners".
    But there they learned to spend targeted and efficiently, choosing from their billion
    all the best.

    We have so many howls when the retirement age was moved ....
    And estimate how much money would be for the Cosmos, if you did not pay pensions at all?
    It would certainly not only be on the far side of the moon.
    :)
  46. Nick
    Nick 4 January 2020 12: 11
    -4
    Again prosralipolymers. Superjet flies for a long time and is sold abroad. IL-112 is not a plane yet. I’m still testing and finalizing it. In 2019, Roscosmos did not allow a single accident. Though weak, but comfort. Ato that lost a lot with the collapse of the USSR, so yes. Just look at Ukraine. The entire defense industry complex and the most powerful aerospace industry were destroyed. It is good that sensible leaders came to power in Russia in the 2000s, that they could be saved, that something new was developed. Raised the defense industry and science.
    1. Artemiy_2
      Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 47
      +1
      Yes, here such articles are published every week. Never mind. It is strange that it was not Skomorokhov who wrote it, who likes to distort the facts and has already buried every KB, plant, etc., etc. in the country about ten times
      1. Nick
        Nick 4 January 2020 16: 01
        0
        Quote: Artemiy_2
        Yes, here such articles are published every week. Never mind. It is strange that it was not Skomorokhov who wrote it, who likes to distort the facts and has already buried every KB, plant, etc., etc. in the country about ten times

        Yes, I received the next 2 warnings for critical comments on Skomorokhov's article and the removal of comments. Almost all of his articles in the spirit of A.G. Drum, in the sense of polymers lol
        Yours faithfully, hi
    2. Olezhek
      4 January 2020 19: 02
      -3
      Again prosralipolymers. Superjet flies for a long time and is sold abroad.

      good
      good
      drinks
  47. shubin
    shubin 4 January 2020 12: 26
    +1
    Damn, good to scare! I still have to fly and fly on a superjet! angry
  48. sergo1914
    sergo1914 4 January 2020 12: 29
    +10


    PS Moderators, this is not written about Putin. He was not born then.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 6 January 2020 19: 38
      0
      But on the other side. What is the difference?
  49. vit670
    vit670 4 January 2020 12: 48
    +7
    Quote: alta
    The casket just opens:
    - On May 2, 2017, it became known that Alexei Rogozin, the son of Dmitry Rogozin, was approved by the General Director of IL.
    - The son of the former head of the presidential administration, Sergei Ivanov, Sergei Ivanov Jr., became the new head of the ALROSA diamond mining company.
    - Dmitry Patrushev, the eldest son of Secretary of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, was appointed Minister of Agriculture on May 18, 2018 ....
    - Andrei Patrushev, the youngest son of the Secretary of the Security Council, is Chairman of the Board of Directors of CenterKaspneftegaz
    - Sergey Matvienko, the son of the chairman of the Federation Council, Valentina Matvienko, is a co-owner of eight companies.
    - Pavel Fradkov, son of the former head of government Mikhail Fradkov, deputy managing director of the president .......

    https://www.rbc.ru/photoreport/06/06/2017/58b416609a7947e593629ec0

    And so everywhere in Russia from top to bottom! And you also want to achieve something with these ignoramuses in space! The fish rots from the head!
  50. Eug
    Eug 4 January 2020 13: 17
    +6
    In the undergraduate course, a practicing teacher who read us said that we will become specialists only when we go through two cycles of "design - development - production - elimination of operational problems - analysis of what was thought, what happened in the end and why it turned out that way." And only then it will be possible to consider us specialists, and that is relative. As far as I understand, now we are not even talking about one complete cycle ...