Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail


Soviet and Russian "aerospace"



Actually, the Soviet aerospace industry was the pride of the country (although, unfortunately, most of its achievements were kept secret then). But hundreds of rockets launched into space, and new planes (of various classes) were created quite regularly. And all this was, and all this worked, and now (ex post) we can be proud of it.

Not to say that all this always worked like a clock, accidents happened, and failures did happen, but the plus clearly outweighed the minus. Both missiles and planes could be proud of. And they did a lot of them, and they flew very often. But further (already in "independent Russia"), non-childish problems began. Suddenly launched vehicles stopped entering calculated orbits.

Simply put, rockets began to fall. And this began to happen very long before Rogozin. And each time an investigation, trial ... allegedly measures were taken. And with the design of new rocket carriers and ballistic missiles, non-childish problems arose. It is enough to recall the epic with the "Mace". By the way, how did it end there? And is it over? That is, we suddenly came up against the fact that a new promising missile for submarine launch vehicles simply does not fly.

And there were scandals, and there were improvements, and there were proceedings. And launched spacecraft both fell and continue to fall. Instead of going into calculated orbits. The attempt to construct and produce new “Russian” aircraft also faced gigantic problems. The first post-Soviet transport aircraft Il-112 was not a masterpiece. Like the first post-Soviet civilian Superjet-100.

No, just in comparison with the Soviet era, with advertising and PR, now everything is in order with us. Promote and advertise. And create an impression. But everyone already understands that things in the Russian "aerospace" are not just worse, but, so to speak, much worse. None of the “overframes” of Roscosmos or the KLA led to anything positive.

To the "newly created" "IL-112" and "Superjet" there are a million questions precisely on the design side. The planes are, in theory, not the most complex and not the most secret (why I do not mention all kinds of Su-57 there). "Passage" aircraft. Just a short-haul liner and just an easy transporter, but "something went wrong."

Now, if this is taken separately, then yes, something can be explained and justified. But if you take everything together ... then the picture looms not very joyful. That is, one involuntarily has to ask a question: what about the aerospace industry in general? No, past achievements and developments are great, but what can Russia do today in this area?

Selfish question


There is still a certain misunderstanding of the reasons for the Soviet breakthrough, first in aviation, and then in the space sphere. There everything about the "enthusiasm of the masses" and the "planned economy" are being pushed. But not everything was so simple. In Soviet times, the most intelligent, sensible and competent people worked in this area, so to speak. And this was achieved quite simply - there were no special alternatives: you won’t leave for America, you won’t open a business, there were no Gazprom then.

Often, for a talented person (and technically competent), one sphere opened up - the defense industry. And there they paid more and gave a lot of money for “research”. And to develop new technology. If civilian factories / civilian products were often outdated, this could not be allowed in the defense industry.

Therefore, new equipment, and new technologies, and new developments. And the salary is higher. But all this was then. After 1991, the situation radically “turned around”. I understand, trite and beaten. And everyone knows about it, and everyone on this topic "trampled down."

However ... however, somehow quite obvious things remain behind the scenes. There was no “Soviet magic”, it was just that money was sacked into the “aerospace”. Well, there was a competent guide, and asked in full. Those who decided to work “according to the Soviet scheme” after the 91st year, firstly, did not understand the meaning and essence of this scheme, and secondly, absolutely did not understand the basic principles of capitalism. And in any case, they did not understand that it was impossible to combine the incompatible.

But both there and there (both under American capitalism and under the Soviet system), a significant part of the expenditures was spent on the training and payment of highly qualified personnel. And now we can’t get away from this, and fate cannot be deceived here. It is long, difficult and expensive to prepare a highly qualified specialist. And for five cents he will not work. This was true for both Roosevelt and Stalin. There is no “propaganda” and no “social justice” here. Clean economy.

To create a rocket / satellite / aircraft, you need a lot of highly qualified and very narrow specialists. And this restriction cannot be circumvented and cannot be deceived. When leaving the industry, these personnel lose their skills very quickly, and preparing new ones takes many years and costs a lot of money. That is, gaining a shift “because of the fence” is impossible and no one will succeed. Such frames themselves do not arise. They must be prepared, and then held. Than? Material goods! What do you want?

Thus, the salary of such citizens should be much higher than the "average for the hospital", and regardless of the availability of orders. Whether you like it or not. Under the USSR, there were no problems with this. Physics schools worked, there were strong technical universities (world-class and above!), And all this was fairly well funded. That is, at first they selected the best, then they were perfectly prepared, then they were sent to "forge the shield of the state." Well, civil aviation got it, although almost all of space was military.

With the introduction of the market, everything changed dramatically. But not the principles of tomorrow's technology. To do this, you still need the best of the best. And in the yard is the market and commerce ...

So you have to pay, someone very naive will say ... Someone who does not understand the features of the Russian economy and social structure.

In Russia it is not accepted to pay for qualifications


This is somehow the case. Not accepted, and that's it! We do not like this topic. Neither in the engineering sphere, nor in the teaching, nor in the design, nor in any. It is customary for us to pay for our position, as happened historically. Under the so-called market economy, “non-targeted expenses” began to be cut in the first place: salaries and social expenses. And the market leveling for ordinary employees has flourished with lush color: almost everyone is paid equally little.

As a result, the most intelligent and skilled ones began to scatter. That is, if a person only knows how to "sit on a chair beautifully" and agree with the bosses in everything, then such "salaries" could be kept, but competent specialists began to scatter in different directions, who was in business and who was abroad.

With the speed of sound scatter. Once again, I would like to emphasize that aerospace is not for everyone. Here we need selected personnel. If you recruit people "by announcement", then there will be no result. A good engineer for the aerospace industry must be prepared from a good student from the first year. About ten years, including the basics of practical work.

And the funny thing is: he does not have to "run away", otherwise the whole system will break. These are piece specialists, they won’t be able to cook them. You need to start with high school students, choosing the most intelligent. Strictly speaking, this was the case under the USSR. Which provided the results.

Yes, you can teach anyone to sell sugar or plumbing (if he has a sales talent). In a short time to teach. With the design and manufacture of aircraft, such tricks do not work. Not in three months, nor in three years it will be possible to prepare a specialist from scratch. And not every one can prepare an aircraft designer or a designer of space technology. Because "not only everything," few people ... You can’t prepare a specialist in assembling such devices in a month from the first one you meet.

And what needs to be done in a market economy to achieve all these goals? And to pay a lot of money, much more than the average "manager". No other way. A person who has chosen such a path should be clearly sure that in this area he will earn many times more than working “in sales” or in the market. Otherwise, it's just not worth it all to start.

And it’s up to the ordinary performer to pay a lot of money. As you know, Mr. Rogozin receives a salary more ... than the head of NASA. And this cannot but rejoice. The trouble is that the ordinary specialist of Roscosmos receives 10 times less than his American counterpart of similar qualifications. And, unlike the times of the USSR, they live in the same economic system. Want to get an apartment? Take a mortgage!

From personal experience: I talked with a Frenchwoman, whose brother went to work just in the aerospace industry (the guy had a talent for mathematics), and so, and his salary ... almost like a Martian. A joke, of course. That is, more so than that of an ordinary Frenchman, that it makes no sense to envy. Absolutely different money. And there is no sense in “twitching” to him. Outside of his qualifications, he nowhere it won’t work that much. “Leaving to trade plumbing” is simply silly for him. And even the "social package" is present with him. And there is a union (real!).

The man "on the social elevator" goes high up. Do not believe? And you are doing it right! It’s not accepted here! From the word “completely” and from the word “never”! You can design rockets, but you can sell toilet bowls, your “waste” will be “in the first approximation” approximately the same. If not less in the first case. Yes, and "under Stalin" this was not. That is why "under Stalin" there were new airplanes.

But, as already mentioned, it is customary for us to pay “for the position”. And in almost any field today there is a huge gap between, for example, an ordinary teacher / doctor and director. And this does not surprise anyone. In France, a high-level practitioner (not to mention America!) Can receive much more as a result than his boss - a “pure administrator”. Because the approach is different. Because it is he who makes money for the company. It’s not customary to talk like that here. The authorities - it is sacred, like a reflection of a high fire ...

Why is it so


As a matter of fact, all this is the heavy legacy of too late feudalism. Late in our country serfdom was abolished. And after that there were not so many economic freedoms. As a result, what happened is what happened. That is, to be a competent specialist we economically unprofitable, profitable to be the boss. That is, I'm not talking about “social” justice, I'm talking about high-tech in the post-feudal system of relations.

In medieval Europe, it was also much more profitable to be an "ordinary baron" than an ingenious merchant or a skilled craftsman. But because! The system was like that. Then this system (with blood!) Was broken. And a completely different system of relations was created (for them). Less hierarchical and more market. Europe was moving away from feudalism very hard and painfully. It cost her many wars, revolutions and sacrifices. But she left feudalism.

Overall. At least the developed and rich countries of the north-west of Europe. And those countries that did not carry out this “execution”, for example, Spain or southern Italy, were very seriously behind in the same economy and technology. Hopelessly behind. As far back as the 16th century, Spain and Turkey were the world's mega-powers, before which Europe trembled. In the 17th century, they literally came to naught. Because they could not “overcome" feudalism. Or didn’t want to.

The reason for the sudden (for Russia) rise of Japan at the end of the 19th century was just an extremely harsh rejection of feudalism. No, the “birthmarks” of feudalism they have remained above the roof, but in 1904-1905. they brought a number of surprises to the Russian Empire. If only because they resolutely abandoned "sweets, sheep ..." and various other delights of feudalism. "Samurai" was going on there extremely hard. But Nicholas II, even after the defeat from Japan, was not ready for such a decisive reversal (nobles, large landowners - the support of the throne).

The situation, when everything is measured not in money and efficiency, but in posts, statuses and titles (and the number of subordinates!) - this is largely just feudalism. As a matter of fact, thousands and thousands of world-class scientists and engineers have left the Russian Empire, the USSR, and the Russian Federation. They left for the West. To the “godly” and “immoral” West. The authorities are sitting upright and demonstrating "patriotism."

It was in the 2010s that the scientific and technological failure in Russia finally became clear. Airplanes do not work, and rockets fall. And the general designer of Ilyushin Design Bureau is broadcasting something about "weak designers." Which, for obvious reasons, are not very burning to work for a very modest salary by modern standards. And if the plane is designed by anyone and anyhow, then it flies “accordingly”. In our system of hierarchical distribution of resources, pennies reach the ordinary performer (albeit a highly qualified one).

In principle, when digging irrigation ditches, laying roads and building fortress walls, such a scheme works for itself. When designing modern technology, such a system refuses to work fundamentally. Once again: in the USSR (a successful example from the point of view of patriots) people were fed well and were not allowed abroad. In principle, in the late USSR in the “aerospace” there was also a swollen pyramid (far from being so terrible in inequality), but it was well supplied due to the capabilities of a superpower, and the ordinary performer was motivated. Today, enterprise directors in unison complain of a lack of workers. There is a certain cunning here: the number of people who want to do highly qualified work for the salary of a garbage collector is constantly and rapidly decreasing.

Nobody wants to work on CNC machines worth a million euros and get twenty thousand rubles. It is not interesting. And directors literally cry in a voice. And why the salary is scanty? And because the money distribution system is classic feudal. And the income of the machinist is formed “by the residual principle”. And those who want to participate in this attraction of unprecedented generosity are becoming less and less.

Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not! And the director of a large plant could not bathe in luxury against the background of hungry turners and technologists. Therefore, the result was. Disappointing results in medicine and education are less noticeable. But planes and missiles ... you can’t hide it. In fact, it’s not just the new, the old, and the alien that are being exploited with difficulty.

Soviet-designed missiles are falling. That is, for a long time already known technology does not work. And the Boeings and Airbuses of the Russian GA are falling, which in Europe, the States and China (!) Have much less accident rate. The Russian GA has a breakdown rate at a level far from the European one. And such a system, they save on everything. And on staff salaries (not superiors!), And on training, and on maintenance, and on fuel. And the status of the FAC in Russia and Europe is very, very different. They do not save, however, on PR, especially after the next: "The human factor is to blame."

And here the transcendental "patriotism" and the search for enemies and pests are already beginning. Meanwhile, the systemic crisis of the Russian “aerospace” is a sure sign of a mismatch between the production relations necessary for high technology and the existing social system. The British and Russians built industry at the beginning of the 18th century in parallel (!). But the British widely introduced steam engines, and the Russians - in-place serfs. After a century and a half, the results showed themselves in all its glory just off the coast (and on the coast) of Crimea, so beloved by our patriots.

Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail
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  1. Recon 4 January 2020 04: 44 New
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    Well, yes, the author, everything is bad, they have broken-broke. I read this a hundred times, I saw nothing new. And what's the point in the article? Who is to blame is understandable. Would you rather suggest specifically what to do? Your thoughts
    1. eklmn 4 January 2020 05: 39 New
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      “Would you rather suggest specifically what to do? Your thoughts? ”
      Recon, do not pretend, please, you know perfectly well what to do! Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons. And not that in a couple of years they will castling again. And do not blame on the “dashing 90s”! 30 years have passed since then, for a long time it was necessary to restore order.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. krops777 4 January 2020 14: 38 New
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          Further, how many rockets did Roskosmos lose this year?


          I will reveal a terrible secret for some for 2019 and 2020 - not one. tongue
          1. Karaul73 5 January 2020 06: 34 New
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            And how many missiles were launched?
          2. military pensioner 10 January 2020 09: 38 New
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            In 2020, only 10 days passed. And this is not a secret, but a fact.
        2. nickname7 4 January 2020 20: 35 New
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          Next, how many rockets Roskosmos lost this year

          What does the loss of missiles have to do with it? An article about aerospace and industry that makes airplanes.
          Boeing delivered 763 aircraft to customers in 2017
          The KLA previously predicted that from 2017 to 2036, 41 civilian aircraft with a total value of $ 800 trillion will be sold in the world. According to Boeing's forecast, in the next 5,7 years, global airlines will need 20 airliners with a total value of $ 41 trillion. Airbus expects delivery of 030 new passenger and 6,1 cargo aircraft with a total catalog value of $ 34 trillion.
          Question to fox, how many aircraft did the Russian Federation make? If the Russian Federation itself flies to used junk from abroad.
          1. maidan.izrailovich 5 January 2020 05: 04 New
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            nickname 7 (Eugene
            What does the loss of missiles have to do with it? Article about ...

            Yes, because the first part of the title is about this.
            Why do our rockets falland planes fail

            ... and further in the text:
            Airplanes do not work, but rockets fall

            Move on....
            nickname 7 (Eugene
            Boeing delivered 763 aircraft to customers in 2017

            Well, sucks to do, a lot of mind is not necessary.
            Trump has banned all flights of the Boeing 737 MAX https://ria.ru/20190314/1551773295.html
            And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Which you can’t hide anymore. In fact, there are complaints about almost all of Boeing’s civilian products. But since the United States controls the world's major media, the information is not moving.
            Back to the falling missiles.
            After the termination of shuttle flights, the Americans are doing everything to return to independent manned flights. But things are still there. And mainly due to accidents of the tested equipment.
            You can still talk about the failures of the Indians, Japanese, etc. etc.
            But back to the essence of the article.
            In my opinion, biased article. Judging by what is stated in the article, Russia alone "slurps cabbage soup", and everything around "D'Artagnana".
            Of course I wanted the missiles not to fall and our planes to fly everywhere. And whose rockets do not fall? Missiles also fell in the USSR.
            The article is similar to an order. You can write the same exact article about the US aerospace industry. And believe me, you won’t have to invent anything, only facts.
          2. BastaKarapuzik And 5 January 2020 11: 50 New
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            how many airplanes did rf make?

            USSR made products for its closed market. Firstly, it was a larger market than the existing market of the CIS countries taken separately. And the key word is closed.
            Is it really necessary to clarify this?
            If we now had a closed market for aviation products, we would fly our own aircraft, but this would be even less justified economically. Well, not every country in the world produces planes in general, and this is too softly said. Around the world, more or less serious manufacturers of liners on the fingers count, one hand is enough. In order to produce everything for yourself, you need to have a larger population, 150 million population of the Russian Federation is too small for this.
            Someone has calculated that you need at least 350 people, then you can completely withdraw into your market and do everything for yourself inside the country. But such a population was not during the Union, although it was still much easier. This also applies to military products, but to a much lesser extent. We mainly produce our military products ourselves, but even there are imported components and they are difficult, although they still need to be replaced in the future.

            I really did not like the title, it is too manipulative, it catches the eye.
            I didn’t even want to read it, but after running through the comments, I still had to get acquainted with the content.
            The question is raised correctly, but many have long known this. However, it was in vain to idealize the wage system in the USSR, especially the late period, the USSR system would not work in an open economy and it had many shortcomings. Advantages did not outweigh these shortcomings.
            There was a shortage of managerial personnel, I worked at a city-forming enterprise, where more than 10 people worked, and so, over the course of several years, eight craftsmen changed, more experienced and intelligent, sitting on working specialties and did not want to move up. Is it normal? What does such a system lead to? To the fact that there are those who would not have to go upstairs. They come either those who are not able to take the post of a good specialist, or with the intention of getting closer to some good workaround. This does not bode well. And, let's say, under Stalin there was a completely different system! The question is, who and whose legacy has eaten up and is eating up?

            There is one conclusion. The article is evil, manipulation is everywhere and open misinformation. Why misinformation, it seems right about pay? But because it is served too one-sided.
            And this is a lie. Partially correct, everything is twisted, it seems to be true, but much is not covered, frankly hidden. Deficiencies stick out, virtues are not noticed, or vice versa, depending on the goals pursued.
            Just like in modern media
            1. UAZ 452 7 January 2020 01: 40 New
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              This is so: it is completely forgotten that in the defense industry, which included space, and most of the aircraft industry, they deliberately departed from the model adopted throughout the rest of the Soviet economy, in particular, competition was not only allowed, but competition was encouraged. The bosses did not receive (the stupid Soviet synonym for the word "earned", which demonstrates well the distortions in the minds of the then Soviet people) many more workers, which contributed to the crisis of professionalism of managerial personnel, but engineers everywhere, except for defense, were on the sidelines of the holiday of the life of the proletarian state. With all the ensuing consequences.
              1. BastaKarapuzik And 8 January 2020 11: 03 New
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                All the time they are trying to compare the achievements of the late USSR with modern Russia, as if not noticing the big difference in status and condition.
                As if we had not lost territory, industry, population.
                and:
                -leakings of capital, in principle, do not exist
                - society is not sick of liberalism, capitalism, etc.
                - generally a monolithic society, unity of opinion in everything
                -Media is exclusively patriotic and strictly controlled
                - what is the fifth column, what are you ?!
                - domestic market is fully protected
                -leakage of labor, brains do not exist
                population savings only in rubles
                - for oil, by the way, we get in rubles
                -... gold as a last resort
                Ruble is the main world currency, and most importantly independent
                -USA is one of the holders of our debt obligations
                -we are not under sanction pressure
                -number of goods turnover with Ukraine and so on
                - there is no information war
                - there is no longer a war with the use of the army of the Russian Federation
                Third world war is impossible at all, are you crazy?
                - around peaceful, friendly neighbors
                - threats to the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation do not exist
                - the guarantor of Russia's sovereignty is specifically the United States and NATO as a whole
                -.... and he didn’t set up a base under our borders
                - there is prosperity and grace on the planet everywhere
                = etc etc etc ...

                PS USSR also did not sell oil for rubles
        3. Skifotavr 4 January 2020 22: 36 New
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          Quote: Alex Fox
          YOU extraterrestrial dol ... do not even know how to count what 30 years.

          Yes, not 30, but 29. This, of course, changes everything. It is a pity that for mathematics they do not give the Nobel Prize. wink
          1. kot28.ru 5 January 2020 05: 04 New
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            But to be more precise, then ... 19 :))) 29 years ago it was January 5, 1991.
        4. Aleksandre 5 January 2020 01: 19 New
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          Of this years, only the fifth day as it began, be patient)
      2. krot 4 January 2020 13: 15 New
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        Isn't the article a provocation? ) He doesn’t like Crimea .. Our planes suddenly became bad, and the missiles sank, only the United States is still flying on our missiles, and Elon Mask’s rackets also plow regularly)
        And I will say why our planes did not work well in the 90s. After the privatization of Yeltsin and his assistants from the CIA, for some reason, the strategic enterprises of the aviation industry became joint-stock companies in which the same Americans held controlling stakes. And they sabotaged all new issues of aircraft, and all the rational activity of industry ..
        Is it easy to recover in 10 years? That's what the Chinese are so eager to get Motor Sich, where Soviet technology is even) To raise the level of aircraft engine building at least a little. For 30 years of growth, they have not reached such technologies. Apparently it’s not so simple.
        But why for so long, we all need everything right away ..) As in Ivan’s tale, I’m a fool, according to my command ..)
        May I ask a question to the author?
        1. l7yzo 4 January 2020 16: 07 New
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          About China - they need technological chains, not technologies. USSR technologies were successfully sold. They (the Chinese) poorly studied the theory of materials and alloys)))
          Do not touch the mask - for 5 years, the shuttles turned out for him (moreover, the nasa asked for 5 times more money and 2 times more time for the same). And we still do not fly from the East. Do you know why? You need to make launches - there are so many coefficients in the calculations, which are obtained experimentally. And the mask falls, and this is normal, in the tips they also fell. In general, from the first 10 launches 4-5 are successful - consider it is a breakthrough. So after 20 starts, it runs in and already goes to working launches. so that Mask is already on the way. And the fact that until now the Americans are buying from us engines of 80 years for launches - so they are always insured. They will buy them for a long time, even if they will not be used.
      3. Arkon 4 January 2020 16: 24 New
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        Quote: eklmn
        do not pretend, please, you perfectly know what to do! Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons. And not that in a couple of years they will castling again.


        Well, thank God, at least you openly wrote everything. smile The point, it turns out, is not in “airplanes and tanks”, all the more so since everything is good enough with them. And not even in the "factories," because they are being built, but in a banal revolutionary itch: I want the power to be deposed! Well, you really don’t open your mouth. We will not give you the power to destroy. wink
        1. eklmn 4 January 2020 17: 28 New
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          “... I want the power to be deposed! Well, you really don’t open your mouth. We will not give you the power to destroy. ”
          Nobody is going to destroy power; you have a jumble of concepts! Power was destroyed by the February Revolution, power was changed by "glasnost" and perestroika. " Now in Russia there is democratic power, popular. There are elections and courts are working. But people in power need not only to be changed, but also necessary! Here, in this article, the author very correctly describes the collapse of one of the most “proud” industries. But the fact is that rockets / planes are the quintessence of a healthy economy and science. If somewhere subtly, then there is a break. And now the Russian economy and science are sick. The author of the article writes correctly about salaries, and this has to do with science and the economy. Indeed, on Russian sites complaints flow - medicine, medicine, housing, prices, salaries ... - the economy is sick!
          Recently Rogozin, in a fit of jealousy, urged Russian Mask fans not to “jump / jump” like the young engineers of the Mask TsUP. But they jumped / screamed / rejoiced naturally like boys, without an order!
          And they were happy! And Rogozin is envious! His engineers will not jump / jump, they are gloomy, and there is something for that.
          Andrey, gallery owners need to be changed. Not the power to change, but people for whom the power has become a persistently monotonous constant lifestyle. But they are elected, servants, so to speak! I understand that you are a patriot and can do without medicine and eat pasta 3 times a day, if only the country ... (hereinafter the text is familiar to you). But young people, aged 18-24, they are also patriots, but for some reason 40% -50% want to leave the country. Why is that? I know, but I won’t say ...
          1. Arkon 4 January 2020 17: 41 New
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            Quote: eklmn
            Indeed, on Russian sites complaints flow - medicine, medicine, housing, prices, salaries ... - the economy is sick!

            Quote: eklmn
            But young people, aged 18-24, they are also patriots, but for some reason 40% -50% want to leave the country.


            You are operating with false data. And from them you make false conclusions. Let's start with the data. Here you are writing about abstract “Russian sites” on which “complaints flow” and from this you conclude that the economy is sick. Does not the logical connection itself seem strange to you: complaints on the site are the diagnosis of the economy? because according to this logic, I can easily find the same sites in any country on the planet Earth and draw a similar conclusion. So? This is actually called manipulation.
            Well, about 40-50%, just provide a data source and we will discuss it.
            1. eklmn 4 January 2020 19: 05 New
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              Andrey, if I want to answer someone, then I do not ask the question “where did you get this”. I go to Google and rummage there.
              Google asked “how many young people want to leave Russia” and Google answered
              As of April 2019, more than 40% are between 18-24.
              https://www.dw.com/ru/более-40-процентов-российской-молодежи-готовы-уехать-из-страны/a-47350846

              “Here you are writing about abstract“ Russian sites ”on which“ complaints flow ”and from this you conclude that the economy is sick”
              Andrei, your last name is not Peskov by chance, what's in the Kremlin?
              It may not be up to date, but even this article (did you read it?) Gives an idea of ​​how the industry is launched. And even Russian ministers and deputies (sometimes!) Say that not everything is safe in the “Danish kingdom”.
              Even this circus, the “straight line” where people complain about the roof / salary / no_drugs - is the economy healthy? 30% without gas (and do not ask me to give a source, find it yourself!) - is this also a healthy economy?
              “Well, about 40-50%, just provide a data source and we will discuss it.”
              We will not discuss the source, as “He is paid”, “agent”, “you cannot believe” ...
              1. Arkon 4 January 2020 19: 28 New
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                Quote: eklmn
                We will not discuss the source, as “He is paid”, “agent”, “you cannot believe” ...


                And what, you can’t discuss, in your opinion? Or do you think that foreign sources speak the truth about Russia? Well, then read what they write about Crimea or the Russian outback and compare it with the surrounding area. Let's read what they write about the Skripaly, Aleppo, "state doping." Do you take a word for all this? Then you are quite right, from your (and enemy's) point of view, calling for the overthrow of Russian power. I would also overthrow such ghouls. Yes, but not everything is as simple as you think.

                Here and in the figures ... The same Deutsche Welle, to which you refer is what he writes about Germany:
                “Many Germans dream of leaving Germany at least temporarily, and some even forever. According to a poll published in Berlin by the YouGov Institute of Public Opinion Research, every second German resident is ready to become an emigrant. They expressed a desire to leave and settle temporarily or permanently abroad as indicated in the report, 55 percent of the participants in the representative study. "
                https://www.dw.com/ru/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%83-%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0-%D0%B8%D0%B7-%D0%B3%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D1%83%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B6%D0%B0%D1%8E%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%86%D1%8B/a-45838843

                How so ?! Really there Putin reached out and drives Germans from Germany ?!
                1. eklmn 4 January 2020 19: 33 New
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                  I put you Plus for the time you spent ...
                2. DDT
                  DDT 5 January 2020 00: 17 New
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                  Many Germans dream of leaving Germany at least temporarily, and some even forever. As follows from a survey published in Berlin by the YouGov Institute of Public Opinion Research, every second German resident is ready to become an emigrant. The desire to leave and settle temporarily or permanently abroad was expressed, as indicated in the report, by 55 percent of the participants in the representative study.

                  Arkon, please tell me, are you adequate? Because, in Germany, they interview ALL. Me, including Uzbek. For example, I was kidding last week, had an impact on Japan, and that I’m dreaming and see how I’ll leave Germany ... And in Russia, these “agents” interview only Russians. If you give out the desired, for the real, then who will feel better from this?
                  1. Arkon 6 January 2020 10: 45 New
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                    Quote: DDT
                    And in Russia, these "agents" interview only Russians.


                    Polling technique:
                    “The usual task is to interview 20-50 people who are constantly registered in some district or constituency,” Alexey told MK. - There are restrictions on gender and age. For example, 8 women from 60 to 90 years old, 5 women from 45 to 59 years old, 4 men from 25 to 44 years old.

                    They give me a tablet, a questionnaire form is entered into it. With this tablet, I go to a given area.

                    The interviewer is not limited in the choice of a specific place for the survey. The best place is the district supermarket. In the morning, pensioners and mothers with children respond well in the yards. ”


                    What are the "Russians"? What are you carrying?
          2. Alf
            Alf 4 January 2020 18: 20 New
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            Quote: eklmn
            There are elections and courts are working.

            There is something they are ..
          3. syndicalist 5 January 2020 08: 10 New
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            Quote: eklmn
            Now in Russia there is democratic power, popular. There are elections and courts are working.

            Now it was very funny!
        2. The comment was deleted.
      4. ultra 4 January 2020 20: 06 New
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        Quote: eklmn
        Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons.

        If only it were that simple.
      5. Goldmoskit 4 January 2020 22: 00 New
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        Will not help. The Soviet system was destroyed, and in exchange nothing was created in 30 years to continue the scientific and technological revolution. This is a huge gap even in the simple transfer and preservation of the design school. A trivial example: it seems there is a design bureau with a team that can design a civilian ship, but there is no design bureau and enterprises that can design and test corny a chassis, hydraulic system with hydraulic pumps., Actuators, hydraulic accumulators, sensors, alarm and automation. And this applies to all sectors of the economy. And the responsibility lies corny on the government. There is a saying: "the fish rots from the head."
        1. telobezumnoe 4 January 2020 23: 16 New
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          the article is nonsense, and the money flows into it immeasurably, and the exhaust is getting smaller, and this is because efficient managers and managers are running to the feeder, and geeks who work not for a lot of money, but just because they are interested in this topic, and without a lot of money they’re ready to do this, but it’s not they who make and manage decisions, but those who want to learn and earn more ... they don’t care what to do, if only they pay more and do it on the hell, the main thing is not to move them away and geeks of narrow specialists they will exploit in the way that is more convenient for them, and there aren’t enough narrow specialists, in principle, it’s possible to teach many for a long time already geniuses in those places do not solve anything, but they lack just a wide profile that could unite everything these technologies, understand all their subtleties, and develop the most critical areas that will give a quantum leap. these are precisely those who are not, and in these places managers who do not care in what area to manage, they force people to work there even shifting from empty to empty. it is precisely such a selection of cadres now in my opinion in any management verticals in our country
        2. Chaldon48 5 January 2020 04: 21 New
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          "Fish rots from the head," so buy fish without a head. You mean the country's leadership, who is good and how rotten (evidence) is, do you know by whom it is desirable to replace them and why are they better?
          1. syndicalist 5 January 2020 09: 10 New
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            . who and how rotten (evidence)

            And the reliability of evidence must certainly be confirmed by the court. Is not it?
            Do you seriously imagine such a court? Who will impartially interrogate the defendants, the same Putin?
            1. Chaldon48 5 January 2020 11: 33 New
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              +1
              I’m not a fortuneteller, and alas, not a grandmaster capable of calculating many moves ahead, but I don’t like judgments not supported by sound arguments, as well as about people and about business
          2. Goldmoskit 7 January 2020 17: 41 New
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            Well, for example, Primakov.
      6. grave 4 January 2020 22: 45 New
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        Do not put things in order, it's too late. Indeed, even places are received according to the hereditary principle. Dad is the son of granddaughters and everyone is wise as child prodigies. This is an immersion in hard feudalism and money-grubbing. This, by definition, can never be cured, it should be cut out in theory with as metastasis. Whether we want it or not, otherwise NO
      7. Dimmedroll 6 January 2020 14: 08 New
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        Well, the couple is only 18 years old. But essentially. it will not change anything. Because as early as 90, our patrons were western, almost ate our entire aviation industry. Dimon, of course, finished off, but then again, the requests of our partners they do not need competitors. And then no one knows what to do. Since for a long time there have been Western investors in all these sectors.
      8. Alexey LK 9 January 2020 00: 42 New
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        Quote: eklmn
        and lover to watch cartoons

        Please note, cartoons are just about rockets, etc. But no one can do everything on their own well, and rockets, and cartoons. Who studied what. Well, if you have anything to say about missiles - just say so, you were asked. Only in the case: to develop the Angara, or to modernize the Proton, Baikonur or Vostochny, whether the state needs to help the Sea Launch with budget money, how it is better for the carrier to do what to do with the ISS, etc., and most importantly - what are the arguments. And you and your kind only know - to change, kick out ... And who in return, at least tell me?
        1. eklmn 9 January 2020 04: 34 New
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          “Would you rather suggest specifically what to do? Your thoughts? ”
          RECON (see above) asked, and I answered him - castling will not help.

          “Well, if you have anything to say about missiles - just say so, you were asked. Only on business. ”
          I’ll say about rockets. What is more important for Russia - to restore space prestige or to engage in routine launches as needed? You can restore prestige, but at what cost? Direct 50% of GDP to the industry? More? And what to get on the way out? One or two missiles and a devastated country? For what? To say loudly “And we can !!” While the development of missiles engaged in the state-in-nothing happens, because bureaucracy / corruption will be eaten by all the money. And it is now. NASA itself made the Shuttles, swelled a lot of money (the Shuttles did their job perfectly), but it was just expensive to maintain. And NASA found a way out - Congress allocates $$$, and NASA itself is looking for rocket builders. And I found - Boeing and SpaceX. So NASA pays them. And it requires! And checks! By the way - at Boeing its Starliner is somewhere 25% more expensive than SpaceX Dragon only due to bureaucracy and inefficient management!
          And for these two other private traders also reached out!
          The state of Russia has an overheated state sector. Privatize it and productivity will increase significantly. Believe in the market - the market will fill all the niches of production, so necessary state-woo. But on the other hand, idiotic taxes and controls by the state do not allow him, the private trader, to turn around.
          A simple example. Kolomoisky in Ukraine closed its airline. And then another businessman was found and opened his own airline. I mean, the market will always occupy niches where there are few performers and many consumers.
          But back to the rockets. Does Russia want to go to the moon? To Mars? Once run and there, and there? Is that all? And if you run it many times, then have you seen a request for the development of these flights until 2035? What, in what sequence, cost? NASA has such long-term programs, and Congress, consecutively, allocates money for these programs. Moreover, it constantly monitors and changes, i.e. there is a dynamic control. In Roskosmos, Rogozin once every 2-3 months announces the future construction of something super-duper and flaunts the name of this piece of iron. And everyone knows that this is chatter.
          In short - there are dibs, then build (Ho at any cost?), No dibs - run what you have or pay Europe / USA, but if you want a breakthrough, only the private trader will take it out.

          “And you and your kind only know - change, kick out ... And whom in return, at least tell me?”
          Why are you asking me? Did I create a situation when there’s no one to choose from? Where did the alternative candidates go? Ask this question to the creator of the vertical and to those who supported it. I know the answer, but I won’t say ...
          But one of the answers is: when the “vertical” becomes the “horizontal”, then we’ll talk ...
    2. 210ox 4 January 2020 06: 44 New
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      Yes, the consideration is one for good applies to people working in production, to train personnel. Eight years ago, I moved to the Krasnodar Territory, went to get a job on agricultural production and processing ... And here it was a discovery for me that in the district of several districts there are not a single little engineer in automation. Took with great joy.
      1. aybolyt678 4 January 2020 11: 59 New
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        Quote: 210ox
        Yes, the consideration is one for good applies to people

        + It treats well. In addition, the author equalizes Western (monetary), Soviet (socialist) and modern Russian (semi-feudal) attitudes towards people, trying to find a common denominator in this - money. This is not entirely true. In Soviet science, scientific authority could be earned by speaking at seminars about your ideas. In modern Western science, if a bright thought occurred to you, then you are trying to hide this thought from your competitors and sell it at least more expensive to anyone. As a result, everyone is trying to hide their ideas. In Western scientific periodicals, everything is written in such a way that the technical embodiment of know-how is incomprehensible. This slows down Western science and Russian science too today, although today, there is no our own science.
        1. Dimmedroll 6 January 2020 14: 10 New
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          Regarding the semi-feudal Russian economy, I beg you. Everything is the same as in the west. One to one.
          1. aybolyt678 6 January 2020 19: 24 New
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            Quote: Dimmedroll
            About the semi-feudal

            I mean the development of our own production of consumer goods
      2. l7yzo 4 January 2020 16: 09 New
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        And yet, they train personnel, but they do not know how to handle them. We have like - "I'm the boss - you d ...")))
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Rumen5252 4 January 2020 23: 51 New
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        "Taken with great joy."
        And how much do you get paid? Please in dollars.
        1. 210ox 5 January 2020 23: 36 New
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          I didn’t drink with you at the Brudershaft ... Well, in principle, okay. There are plenty of boors everywhere. And I get my salary in rubles, not dollars. Of course, few do not reach 40k. But there is no other job.
    3. Obi-Wan Kenobi 4 January 2020 07: 01 New
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      Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not! And the director of a large plant could not bathe in luxury against the background of hungry turners and technologists. Therefore, the result was.

      Of course I couldn’t. Because the difference in salaries between the ranks was a maximum of 15%.
      And now this difference can be 100% and 10%. Everything is limited by the greed and imagination of the director. To stole as much for yourself - as if for the last time and a little more just in case.
      But for workers and ordinary engineers - hell, but a little! It's okay, they will not die!
      And, most interestingly, this bastard director understands perfectly well that without his subordinates he is simply “long on the stick”. Because, as in the production of products of "one's own" enterprise, this unfortunate director does not understand anything at all. He confidently stably puts on the “top”.
      And the deputies, especially the chief accountant, for the most part, he still has the same goofy things as he does. But they are “their own” in the board and help to cut the allocated funds.
      Only deputy. sensible production, as a rule. But also of those who sell their souls to anyone for money.
      And the workers are forced to go to this enterprise, work for a penny and endure all this, because there is simply NO other work! There is at least some penny salary and work experience.
      I myself work in such an enterprise and, believe me, I know what I'm writing about.
      At what enterprise? Don’t ask, I won’t say it anyway.
      That's the whole point in the article. What is not clear?
      What is the guarantor, such and his subordinates. Well and below, according to the chain, respectively.
      Honest, decent and, most importantly, competent specialists - managers now Absolutely no one needs! Because you will not receive kickbacks and bribes from them!
      1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 07: 27 New
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        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        But for workers and ordinary engineers - hell, but a little! It's okay, they will not die!

        With us in the USSR, the director received 600 rubles, and the usual fitter of the third category received 250-300. Now we take as an example one bourgeois from our own site. He boasts that he has accumulated pensions for 500 years ahead ... request
        1. Stas157 4 January 2020 09: 32 New
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          My father, an engineer, did electronics for Topol, received 350 rubles and was very proud of it. Then, when the Russian authorities came, he ceased to be proud of his salary. But he began to talk about the director and superiors, how much they “earn”. And that they steal.
          That’s the whole difference, then and now.

          Mother also worked with her father as a simple radio regulator after a technical school. Received 250. That, too, was not bad.
          Parents were proud of the country, their social status and the fact that they are doing a very important thing for the country. In the new Russia, everything was the other way around.

          Thanks to the author for the article. I wrote everything correctly.
          1. grave 4 January 2020 22: 51 New
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            An important matter for the country ... It’s already broken ... When the next time the masses of people will speak the same way while going with JOY to work?
        2. Victor N 4 January 2020 09: 55 New
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          And the ordinary engineer received 100 - 120 rubles. Is it normal when engineers with experience retired as locksmiths?
          And it’s only 2 times harder to evaluate the director’s work - this is nonsense!
          1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 10: 23 New
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            Quote: Victor N
            And the ordinary engineer received 100 - 120 rubles.

            One of my uncles was an ordinary engineer (designed tower cranes) and an inventor. I did not ask how much he received, but he did not at all seek to transfer to our factory, although he had such an opportunity. He did not want to wave Mary Bath or to stand behind the machine. By the way, our income was about 350-400 rubles for a family of 4 people, this was when my sister and I were a child (my mother received 100 rubles as a cashier) and it was enough for us. When they gave a four-apartment with an area of ​​80 squares, for six months it was fully equipped. And the uncle engineer was a music lover, he bought equipment only of the highest class, Arktur 006 still works for me. And my sister has Radio engineering. All is left of him. The full wardrobe was full of records and bobbins.
            Quote: Victor N
            And it’s only 2 times harder to evaluate the director’s work - this is nonsense!

            The salary of the Minister of the USSR was 800 rubles, if memory serves me right. The miner's apprentice earned more than the secretary of the district committee. That is why the USSR was destroyed.
            1. grave 4 January 2020 22: 54 New
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              Worth Electrical Engineering 001 B1 1973 and the equalizer Corvette 004-Purchased recently for the soul on the occasion of the New Year ...
              1. Mordvin 3 5 January 2020 00: 51 New
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                I don’t remember the equalizer, but the Corvette turntable was something fantastic. Well, the price of rubles is under 900. When I found out, my eyes got on my forehead.
                Quote: Kapa
                equalizer Corvette 004-Purchased recently for the soul on the occasion of the New Year ...

                For my soul - my favorite receiver "Ocean 209" 81-year release. Never broke.
                1. grave 5 January 2020 12: 16 New
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                  Cool! I'm still waiting for them to do the Brig Amplifier, I'll buy it too ... 900 rubles for a turntable then .... it's a motorcycle ...
                  1. Mordvin 3 5 January 2020 13: 55 New
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                    +1
                    Quote: Kapa
                    900 rubles for a turntable then .... it's a motorcycle ...

                    Yes, Corvette was in my opinion the most expensive pinwheel in the USSR. Like two Sunrises at a cost. Or IZhak. Or like three Arcturus (240 rubles in 1987, looked at its price). We must somehow confiscate the radio equipment from my sister’s amp, anyway he’s gathering dust with her, showing off for the surroundings.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 5 January 2020 17: 08 New
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                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      We must somehow confiscate the radio equipment from my sister’s amp, anyway he’s gathering dust with her, showing off for the surroundings.

                      Damn, they’d say a couple of years earlier, I would give you the whole rack for free, and there was a Radio-101 amplifier, a Radio-101 tuner, a Yauza-204 tape recorder and a Vega-105 turntable.
                    2. grave 5 January 2020 18: 31 New
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                      This is a must! -Confiscate! Because there are very few of them left and they are valued. My repairman made the electronics and said, let's change! I will give the grit this and that. I say: no! He attacks this amp at the price then it’s a 50-70 thousand category. Well, as a wise man, I took the repaired home and rejoice. Now I’ll take Brig 3 revisions
          2. Obi-Wan Kenobi 4 January 2020 10: 57 New
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            +25
            And an ordinary engineer received 100 - 120r

            Not true.
            A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive. Further more.
            1. victor50 4 January 2020 12: 04 New
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              Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
              Not true.
              A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive. Further more.

              Sister with her husband, working in the nuclear industry, in number cities, received 300 and 700, respectively. Sister - 3 days a week. For 3 years from a room in a communal apartment - to a 3-room apartment. At that time I was receiving 230-250 in the service. And a room, then 2, in a communal apartment. I think it was right.
            2. dauria 4 January 2020 13: 29 New
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              A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive.


              Do not forget to name the year. For 82-88 years. the numbers are correct. And a little earlier it was even the topic of a sad joke - "together with a diploma you get a salary of 120 r."
              Well, how would a techie solve this state problem? Just like any task - I looked for a start how the "adversaries" solve it. What have you achieved that you can "lick" without reinventing the wheel. And how to make this bike ride normally on our roads. Only techies will decide, not the top. Moreover, when and if baked from below or from the side.
            3. gsev 4 January 2020 22: 23 New
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              Quote: Obi Wan Kenooy discarded furniture, bi
              Not true.

              Around 1987, like Baumansky graduates, I received 107 rubles clean and 130 rubles dirty at the defense institute. In 1989-1990, the salary was not bad, In 1991, there appeared the possibility of left-hand wages among sensible people, including those by profession. By 1994, the salaries of engineers were equated with lumpen. My friend worked at the aircraft factory for the repair and modernization of machine tools. He could not create a family and his design line was interrupted. Father also made and repaired machine tools and appliances on the Banner of the Revolution. A Tajik janitor can now earn more than an aircraft designer, given that he can have left money selling discarded equipment, furniture, repairing plumbing and electrics.
          3. Freeman 4 January 2020 12: 12 New
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            +19
            Quote: Victor N
            And an ordinary engineer received 100 - 120r. Is it normal when engineers with experience retired as locksmiths?
            And it’s only 2 times harder to evaluate the director’s work - this is nonsense!


            In what years, in the early 70's?
            1. 100-120 rubles was received by a "young specialist" with no experience, immediately after high school, in those same "research institutes" from jokes.
            After 3 years, he received the 3rd category (unless he was immediately credited to a full-time vacancy).
            After another 3 years - the 2nd category (etc.).
            And do not forget about the “quarterly” bonuses of 30-60% of salary.

            CPSU CENTRAL COMMITTEE
            USSR Council of Ministers
            ALL-CENTRAL CENTRAL COUNCIL OF PROFESSIONAL UNIONS

            DECISION
            from 24 December 1976 N N 1058

            ON INCREASING THE MINIMUM
            WAGES FOR WORKERS AND EMPLOYEES
            WITH SIMULTANEOUS INCREASE OF OFFICIAL WAGES AND
            TARIFF RATES OF AVERAGE PAYABLE CATEGORIES OF EMPLOYEES
            SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS, DESIGN
            TECHNOLOGICAL, DESIGN, SURVEY ORGANIZATIONS,
            COMPUTER CENTERS, INFORMATION AND COMPUTING
            AND MACHINING STATIONS, CENTERS (LABORATORIES)
            ON THE SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATION OF LABOR AND MANAGEMENT
            PRODUCTION AND OTHER SCIENCE ORGANIZATIONS



            source:
            http://www.libussr.ru/doc_ussr/usr_9067.htm


            2. The difference in director’s pay is twice as much. than that of subordinates, quite normal for that time.
            Let me remind you that the salary difference of 10 rubles was very noticeable - with this money, one person could live a week.
            1. l7yzo 4 January 2020 16: 13 New
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              thank you for the info
          4. telobezumnoe 4 January 2020 23: 25 New
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            +4
            who cares? everyone does their job, why should the manager’s work be paid ten times more than another specialist? Of course, someone justifies this with risks, but on the other hand, a worker was fired for poor work - God forbid, he has enough for one month, or someone with a golden parachute .. who takes more risks?
        3. Vadim237 4 January 2020 14: 39 New
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          -8
          I earned 80% of this amount by playing on the stock exchange since 2012.
          1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 11 New
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            +14
            Quote: Vadim237
            I earned 80% of this amount by playing on the stock exchange since 2012.

            That is, actually from the air, without producing any material values. What is there to be proud of? I do not understand...
            1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 29 New
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              You carry some kind of banal garbage - I just took part of the profit from my production on it so that I would play otherwise.
            2. telobezumnoe 4 January 2020 23: 34 New
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              0
              Well, partly investments are not from the air, you help those of your own business who need growth in your opinion, they develop and strengthen your investments in them, and they have something to develop with.
          2. smart ass 4 January 2020 17: 18 New
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            It is very interesting, on which particular papers or on the difference in currencies?
            1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 27 New
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              He played big on drag metals and oil price rates.
              1. smart ass 5 January 2020 00: 25 New
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                Now do not practice?
                1. Vadim237 5 January 2020 21: 06 New
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                  The last time he bet on the oil industry when the oil refineries in Saudi Arabia attacked the Husits.
                  1. smart ass 6 January 2020 00: 34 New
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                    0
                    What tools do you use? Prog
      2. Egoza 4 January 2020 09: 39 New
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        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        Everything is limited by the greed and imagination of the director. To stole as much for yourself - as if for the last time and a little more just in case.

        That is why Comrade is recalled. I.V. Stalin. It is necessary to plant, with confiscation. Yes, and “sharagi” would not hurt.
      3. Monster_Fat 4 January 2020 10: 28 New
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        Question about salary ..... They do not pay because: 1) TCs were modified for the sake of "employers" rather than hired workers, 2) the "cost of living" that all employers are guided when setting the level of salaries is absolutely not realistic and is set by the state at the level of Zimbabwe, 3) real unemployment in Russia is many times greater than what the “non-polite” Rosstat indicates, which creates undue competition in the labor market and strong pressure on the employee, in terms of his agreement with the low level of the required salary, 4) heaps of migrants are brought in from villages that reduce the salary level in simple professions, which is inexorably pulling for a decrease in the main labor market, 5) in Russia there are no “25 million high-tech jobs” and therefore highly educated specialists are not in great demand, not so much, and there were a lot of them on the market at one time -for the collapse of the USSR industry, hence the lack of understanding of the need for them to pay a high salary, 6) a private entrepreneur, whatever they say in the first it’s primarily interested in its profit and the salary of employees is part of its expenses, from here it will always restrain its growth and focus on paying a minimum, 7) the state has actually eliminated the regulation of the wage situation and generally left the labor market, monitoring only the tax component , 8) Well, the last and perhaps the most important thing is that there is a fundamental difference between the tax system in Russia and the “West” —in Russia, tax pressure is transferred to the enterprise, and in the West to the individual. That is, in Russia, the employer pays most of the taxes of an individual on a fixed scale, and in the west, the individual pays most of the taxes on a progressive scale.
        1. victor50 4 January 2020 12: 06 New
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          Quote: Monster_Fat
          Russia does not have “25 million high-tech jobs” and therefore highly educated specialists are not in great demand, they don’t need so many, and there were a lot of them on the market at one time because of the collapse of the USSR industry, hence the lack of understanding of the need to pay them high salaries

          My friend said 25 years ago: "Professionalism is not in demand at this time"
          1. Aureol 4 January 2020 15: 25 New
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            Quote: victor50
            "Professionalism at this time is not in demand"

            I support. And in all areas.
            Manager - "grease" between the "gears" -professionals. The mechanism will work without lubrication, albeit slowly, with a creak and, most likely, not for long. A good general director can significantly increase the efficiency of the enterprise, although he will not know the subtleties and details known to narrow specialists. But if there are no these “gears” - at least fill all jobs with three PMPs - a mechanism from one “lubricant” will not work. And people believe in miracles. That’s where the high-likly appear everywhere.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Freeman 4 January 2020 14: 45 New
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            Obi Wan Kenobi (Sigismund Voldemarovich) Today, 12:51
            The status of a non-grata person in Russia was too smart for a diplomat of the PRC (23.12.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX)

            Yeah. And none of the pluses noticed -
            Attention - this “news” from our cheerful colleagues from RIA “Panorama” is an artistic work on the general situation. Good mood to you all! Do not get sick and happy New Year!


            Panorama specializes in creating various fake news for entertainment purposes, which honestly warns on its pages. But many do not notice this and take it at face value. fool wassat
            1. Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 42 New
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              Panorama specializes in creating various fake news for entertainment purposes, which honestly warns on its pages. But many do not notice this and take it at face value.

              He has already suffered. And after all, the most important thing for his fake is he will not answer. A cowardly will hide
          2. Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 41 New
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            ahahahah
            This is a fake from the IA Panorama website. God what fools our earth bears
            Threw a complaint for the distribution of fakes. Oh god
            1. dirk182 4 January 2020 22: 44 New
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              easier?) You, how zealously rushed to "truth" to defend. Significant laughing. Snitches nowhere and no one likes. Even those who are knocking.
              1. Artemiy_2 5 January 2020 00: 10 New
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                Nehren fakes spread
      4. naidas 4 January 2020 11: 55 New
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        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        And, most interestingly, this bastard director understands perfectly well that without his subordinates he is simply “long on the stick”.

        It’s also not true, in our civil service, the chief engineer would fire you all and be left alone. You can hire third-party organizations and receive bonuses without worrying about yours.
        1. Simple 4 January 2020 14: 59 New
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          Quote: naidas
          It’s also not true, in our civil service the chief engineer would fire you all and be left alone



          I knew another chief engineer: the response of the director of the plant to dismiss certain people was answered: "If you are going to fire them, then I will leave myself."

          Since these people, although they missed a pile at the end of the working week,, figuratively speaking, all production was held on them.
          In fairness, it is worth noting that the director was recently appointed, the former went to Germany, and the new was, to put it mildly, not a couple of the old.
      5. ZAV69 4 January 2020 18: 15 New
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        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        What is the guarantor, such and his subordinates. Well and below, according to the chain, respectively.
        Honest, decent and, most importantly, competent specialists - managers now Absolutely no one needs! Because you will not receive kickbacks and bribes from them!

        You simplify and complicate everything at the same time. The guarantor here cannot and cannot change anything. Our society suffers from capitalism with a comprador bias. And it hurts from the age of 91. It hurts through and through. We have something that is not available in other developed countries (African and other garbage dumps do not count): in our country, almost everyone trying to get into business or money is trying to dump abroad. In order for the guarantor to be able to do something, he must have at hand the NKVD of 1933 and the Iron Curtain, he doesn’t have either
    4. Mcar 4 January 2020 07: 02 New
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      Quote: Recon
      Well yes, author, everything is bad, collapsed, broken. I read this a hundred times, I saw nothing new. And what's the point in the article? Who is to blame is understandable. You would be better suggested specifically what to do? Your considerations?

      1. If EVERYTHING is bad, or, more accurately, worse than it was, then this is no longer a cascade of accidents, but a system. A system to make everything from step to step worse and worse.

      2. It is possible to offer, besides it has already been offered many times, only to whom? Well, now I would suggest something. To whom? The Kremlin? The bourgeoisie? Skeet main? Who should implement the proposal - will he even know that there is some objectively good proposal?

      3. Considerations are another matter. There are plenty of them, good considerations, in almost every social, economic, and political topic. Well, for example, such a consideration - capitalism will destroy both Russia and the entire planet. Because the formation has already survived more than a hundred years. The trouble with space and aviation is only a consequence, and the reason is capitalism, in socio-economic relations in society. And the topic raised is just one of a million other similar ones. We take any aspect, and a similar picture. And as you know, it’s pointless to treat symptoms - you need to treat the disease as a whole.
      1. Monster_Fat 4 January 2020 10: 59 New
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        I missed one of the most important points determining the low level of salaries in Russia and it is typical for Russia: 9) the employer’s demand for comfort and financial well-being is too high, and in simple terms: EMPLOYERS ARE SMALL AND THERE CAN'T GET THEM ....
        The solution to the problem of low wages "on the surface" - take any item that I have outlined and solve it in terms of correction. Only desire is needed.
      2. depressant 4 January 2020 11: 58 New
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        Colleagues Monster_Fat and McAr, as always, are a great analysis!
        At one time, they raised the iron curtain so that the dissatisfied merged according to the principle "I don’t like what we are doing? The gates are open!" Well, a huge amount of different people merged. The West sifted them through a sieve. It turned out that those who were dissatisfied with the Soviet Union were no longer especially needed - so, they warmed a few, in case of a shout. Many of the others returned and found their usual place in the paid false opposition. But highly qualified specialists were in demand, and how! Here in the West they were thoroughly warmed up and actively continue to warm, sucking out the best personnel from Russia.
        Either in the past or the year before last, some Muscovite boy passed the USE by 400 points, and decided to enter Moscow State University. The patriotic paper press boasted wildly - they say, what are we, eh? We are growing! The Internet shouted in chorus: "What are you doing?!? Go to Sweden! At worst - in the USA!"
        People already clearly understand that class specialists are not needed by Russian capitalism. After all, they built it in accordance with their skills - moral, criminal, professional - according to the patterns of the so-called "Gorbachev perestroika", which, with the help of the domocles sword, cut off the head of a natural healthy business.
        Don’t believe it!
        Four days before the New Year in the "Five" I hear a conversation of two women, in appearance - office cleaners. "My brother-in-law told me that in the Kremlin you’re a godfather!"
        This has now come to the people to replace the habitually-indefinite "Power steals!"
    5. vit670 4 January 2020 12: 31 New
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      What to do, dear, lies on the surface: the salaries of officials to equalize (or at least approximate) with the salaries of workers who, in contrast to bureaucrats, produce wealth. And of course, even a little bit to reduce theft and the export of capital abroad. In the most cruel way! Officials will not do this, and the president will not do this either. Why? Because it is his support and they elected him for their money! He simple simple hard workers will just hang noodles on the ears and PR every day on the TV. There is no way to do without a revolution - they will not give up their power and the ability to rob people without blood! So far, in the short term, this does not threaten Russia. Why? There is no leader, not yet visible. There are only corrupt, close to the president leaders of pseudo-parties .... Which play the role of fooling voters, and by the way are well paid by the government!
    6. The comment was deleted.
      1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 30 New
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        This will not solve a tenth of all problems.
    7. smart ass 4 January 2020 17: 05 New
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      Can for one siluanova with a salary of 1.4 million rubles tell me how to save the Russian economy?
      1. ultra 4 January 2020 20: 08 New
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        Quote: Clever man
        Can for one siluanova with a salary of 1.4 million rubles tell me how to save the Russian economy?

        To save from Siluanov? laughing
    8. Arkon 4 January 2020 17: 24 New
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      Wow. What does VO turn into? A commentator who offers to make concrete proposals and not engage in criticism is gaining -30, and a commentator who calls to overthrow the government and does not offer anything is gaining +36!

      VO turns into a branch of "Echo of Moscow"?
      1. eklmn 4 January 2020 23: 09 New
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        Andrei, don’t liken yourself to one famous propagandist of pre-war Germany, or DO NOT LIE - NOBODY offers to overthrow the government! In addition, I promised you to put Plus? I honestly put it, he is there alone (unfortunately) ...
        And in general, envy is not good!
        1. Arkon 6 January 2020 10: 57 New
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          Quote: eklmn
          Andrei, don’t liken yourself to one famous propagandist of pre-war Germany, or DO NOT LIE - NOBODY offers to overthrow the government!


          Well wait, here are your words:
          do not pretend, please, you perfectly know what to do! Remove from the author’s office the phrase “there is no money, but you are fastening” and a fan of watching cartoons.


          How do you propose to “remove” the President of the Russian Federation from management? Despite the fact that the people clearly expressed their opinion at the vote?

          PS I don’t even comment on “envy” - you can see my statistics on the site and my “struggle for the pros”. laughing
      2. telobezumnoe 5 January 2020 00: 12 New
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        and do nothing, that’s how you’re building a society now, loot wins evil, and it’s not important what to do, the main thing is to have enough red pants, to have one dream for everyone on Friday, a shirt-front apartment or an island yacht ideally)) and everyone is ready as a squirrel in a wheel for the sake of this beautiful goal. it's just an ideology inspired by television and the Internet, few people want to create, most just want to consume, and don’t know how to take their free time (watch TV shows or shows) to be entertained)
  2. Mikhail m 4 January 2020 04: 47 New
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    It is worth adding that low salaries result in low purchasing power, low demand leads to a reduction in output, and a modern effective manager sees a way out of the situation in lowering salaries or reducing staff. At the same time, we are told that we are about to rush at an unprecedented pace. And so that no one doubts that the economy is growing, they came up with negative growth economy.
    1. Victor N 4 January 2020 10: 04 New
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      A high salary at low productivity leads to an increase in cost and price. Products stop buying, the company stops - bankrupt. It is for this reason that enterprises have been and will stop. Elementary! And this is not the law of capitalism, but the law of life: if you eat more than you get, you die.
      1. naidas 4 January 2020 12: 00 New
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        Quote: Victor N
        High salary at low productivity leads

        If you are talking about manual labor, yes, but the 21st century is the problem of the surplus of people, they have been replaced by technology. In the USA, 20% of production and 80% of services.
        1. depressant 4 January 2020 12: 14 New
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          Victor N., who or what prevents the owner of the enterprise from supplying modern equipment and hiring specialists capable of training workers to use it to increase labor productivity? Finally, hire such professionals on an ongoing basis? Putting everyone a decent salary?
          1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 02 New
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            Probably the lack of money for this most modern equipment - this is why they take loans to buy it, but it’s half the trouble you need to train staff for this new equipment, and this is already a simple part of production capacity due to a decrease in productivity for the quarter, and you need to pay on loans every month, similarly with taxes, there will be no increase in salaries in this case, as an example of 1500 enterprises of the military-industrial complex - they got loans worth 1,4 trillion rubles, Roscosmos with 130 billion debts of Khrunichev understands.
            1. Alf
              Alf 4 January 2020 18: 41 New
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              Quote: Vadim237
              you need to train personnel for this new equipment

              And where did the training system go?
          2. Victor N 4 January 2020 16: 50 New
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            The same law interferes, it is universal: in the Stone Age, now.
          3. telobezumnoe 5 January 2020 00: 17 New
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            what for? if the logic is such that the cow is more profitable, it should be fed less often and milked more often, and then for meat, now effective managers have the best tool to increase labor productivity)
            1. Vadim237 5 January 2020 21: 09 New
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              This is the logic of idiocy - and it works only in burning offices.
      2. victor50 4 January 2020 12: 09 New
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        Quote: Victor N
        A high salary at low productivity leads to an increase in cost and price. Products stop buying, the company stops - bankrupt. It is for this reason that enterprises have been and will stop. Elementary! And this is not the law of capitalism, but the law of life: if you eat more than you get, you die.

        At the same time, I did not have to meet the impoverished owners and production managers. request
        1. Victor N 5 January 2020 15: 36 New
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          You are not lucky to meet the former, many do not live long after bankruptcy ....
    2. victor50 4 January 2020 12: 08 New
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      Quote: Michael m
      low demand leads to reduced output,

      would add- or reduce its quality.
  3. Uncle lee 4 January 2020 04: 49 New
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    "Cadres decide everything"! Who said that ? That's it ....
    1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 05: 00 New
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      Quote: Uncle Lee
      "Cadres decide everything"!

      And now I have a question for you, ”said Stalin, coming up. - How much salary do you get?

      “By the decision of the Council of People's Commissars, four thousand rubles a month were determined to me, as the Aeroflot chief pilot, [25],” I answered somewhat puzzled.

      - And how much does the commander of an aviation regiment get? - asked Stalin, referring to the drug defense of Marshal of the Soviet Union Tymoshenko.

      “We don’t get such a salary.” The regiment commander receives one thousand six hundred rubles from us, ”said Marshal Tymoshenko.

      It became quiet.

      - And how much do you earn at all? Asked Stalin. The conversation took an unpleasant turn for me.

      - Comrade Stalin, I did not pursue money and do not pursue it. It is supposed to be one thousand six hundred rubles - I will receive such a salary.

      - But still, how much do you earn?

      “A lot,” I answered in a somewhat elevated tone and fell silent.
      https://e-libra.ru/read/164994-dal-nyaya-bombardirovochnaya.html
    2. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 09: 32 New
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      Quote: Uncle Lee
      "Cadres decide everything"!

      Especially when such "shots" rule the country!
      I don’t know if it’s a topic, but on YouTube I came across an “optimistic” interview with KB general designer Kamov.
      1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 04 New
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        Kamovtsy can rejoice, they have ordered more than a hundred Ka 52 MOs until 2027.
        1. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 38 New
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          Would you go Vadik with such joy somewhere in your alternative future, and separately from the rest of the population. Under the USSR, 300-400 cars were produced every year.
          1. Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 44 New
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            there was no such thing.
            1. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 44 New
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              Quote: Artemiy_2
              was not like that.

              What wasn’t?
              1. Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 45 New
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                300-400 verticals per year of one model was not.
                1. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 49 New
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                  I did not talk about one model. I'm talking about the total number of cars. Only Mi-24 during the Union produced more than a hundred a year.
                  1. Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 50 New
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                    Now there is no need for such a number of verts
                    1. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 15: 56 New
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                      Why did you decide this? I occasionally communicate with men from the Syzran helicopter - they say the opposite. And a comparison of the number of turntables in the United States and Russia is clearly not in Russia's favor - six to one. Is this your “no need”?
                      1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 41 New
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                        And the USSR, which had an army of more than 3 million, is no longer there - correspondingly, this number of Russian helicopters is not needed, and 190 and 300 and more helicopters of all models produce them anyway.
                      2. Artemiy_2 5 January 2020 00: 08 New
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                        It is useless to explain to them. Here the sect gathered
        2. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 37 New
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          No, you’d just go to your icteric Internet infoblivotin and take your so-called “population” of trolls and other whiners with you.
      2. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2020 18: 44 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        Kamovtsy can rejoice, they have ordered more than a hundred Ka 52 MOs until 2027.

        100 helicopters in 7 years. 14 turntables per year, 1 helicopter per month ... Hurray !!!
        1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 38 New
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          I wrote only about a specific model of the Ka 52, and not about all the helicopter models that the MO plans to purchase - learn how to read.
          1. Alf
            Alf 5 January 2020 17: 00 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            I wrote only about a specific model of the Ka 52, and not about all the helicopter models that the MO plans to purchase - learn how to read.

            I can read, but for some it’s time to stop rejoicing at such “great” achievements.
            Kamov's office what other turntables are producing now? Does not repair, but releases new ones? How much will it be loaded?
            1. Vadim237 5 January 2020 21: 16 New
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              Ka 226, Ka 62, Ka 31, a new attack helicopter under construction, a new carrier-based helicopter under construction, plus export orders - just like Miles will not remain without work.
              1. Alf
                Alf 5 January 2020 21: 22 New
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                Quote: Vadim237
                Ka 226, Ka 62, Ka 31, a new attack helicopter under construction, a new carrier-based helicopter under construction, plus export orders - just like Miles will not remain without work.

                Specifically, how much did you order? About the 52nd you gave the numbers, now give about the rest of the orders, do not be like the GDP, which also vaguely promises something.
  4. knn54 4 January 2020 10: 15 New
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    By a decree of June 23, 1921, it was established that the wages of responsible co-workers cannot exceed more than one and a half times the average wage in an enterprise or in an institution in which the aforementioned “comrades” work.
    .
    In 1955, Vladimir Starovsky, the head of the Central Statistical Bureau, compiled a secret certificate on the size of salaries in the country. According to him, over 42% of workers received less than 500 rubles a month — less than the average monthly salary. Those whose monthly income ranged from 2000 rubles and above, in the country there were only 2% - 900 thousand people.
    TODAY, the ratio between the salaries of 10% of the richest Russians and 10% of the poorest reached the OFFICIAL indicator of 1 to 25.
    Rogozin has a daily salary higher than the monthly salary of an engineer in the space industry
    I want to note one point already in Brezhnev’s era, the prestige of the engineer began to decline.
    Low salaries for young professionals. people from masters went to workers. "Majors" after an aborted career left INSTRUCTORS to the party and Komsomol district committees / city committees where they gave instructions "how to work."
    TODAY, universities do not pay for knowledge, but for the session.
    The paradox is vacancies, and unemployment is rising.
  5. WIKI 4 January 2020 10: 28 New
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    Quote: Uncle Lee
    "Cadres decide everything"!

    As they decide, we live:
  • apro 4 January 2020 05: 01 New
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    The author solved the problem simply. Give only money. and there ..... there will be a squirrel and a whistle.
    What salaries? in Soviet times, breaks 1.5. 2 times today is an order of magnitude but if there is no long-term program. Or plan. And everything is on the run. Today we have to buy tomorrow then who needs this aerospace industry?
    1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 05: 09 New
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      Quote: apro
      What salaries? in Soviet times, breaks 1.5. 2 times today is an order of magnitude but if there is no long-term program. Or plan. And everything is on the run. Today we have to buy tomorrow then who needs this aerospace industry?

      Well, I’ll add.
      One of the comrades suggested sending one of the deputy commissars, a strong organizer, who would be able to rectify the situation there, the factory director.

      Stalin asked:

      - How much does the director of the plant get?

      They called him the amount.

      - And the deputy commissar?

      It turned out a lot more.

      - Does he have a family? An affirmative answer followed.

      “How will you send him the director of the plant and lower his salary if he is a good worker?”

      - He is a communist and is obliged to implement decisions.

      “We are not all Social Revolutionaries,” said Stalin. “Does he manage his job here?”

      - Completely.

      - And you told him that you want to recommend him to the post of director of the plant?

      - Нет.

      There was a long pause. Finally, Stalin spoke:

      - Here we have some gentlemen communists who solve issues this way: since you are a communist, no matter where you are sent, no matter what they do to you, shout “cheers” and vote for the Soviet regime. Of course, every communist will fulfill any decision of the party and go where he is sent. But the party must act reasonably. [46] It is unlikely that this or that communist will shout “hooray” if you throw him on a breakthrough and for that cut his salary by half, although he may not say anything about this to you. Where did you get that we have the right to do this to people? Apparently, if we really want to improve the matter, it is advisable to leave all the benefits that he receives here to his family, and to send him to the plant, and let the director of the plant work there for a salary. Put the plant on its feet - will come back. It seems that with this decision, the matter will move, and the person will have more energy.

      https://e-libra.ru/read/164994-dal-nyaya-bombardirovochnaya.html
    2. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 09: 18 New
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      Quote: apro
      The author solved the problem simply. Give only money. and there ..... there will be a squirrel and a whistle.

      But the issue is far from salaries, or rather not only in them. The vocational education system is completely killed. Now it’s full of ambitious ignoramuses, and we need motivated professionals. And the same situation is everywhere, including in medicine.
      1. victor50 4 January 2020 12: 21 New
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        Quote: Ingvar 72
        But the matter is far from salaries

        But the author did not talk only about salaries, he talked about money. About the need to pour them into the industry if we want to get something from it that will work. OK.
  • Squelcher 4 January 2020 05: 16 New
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    Chef mustache is gone !!!!!
    Yes there are problems in space and not only
    but pouring dirt ?????
    1. Skif 4 January 2020 09: 43 New
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      I would say to water. From the hip.
      1. Squelcher 4 January 2020 12: 44 New
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        Current adherents of communists and liberals are ready to pour mud over the fact that the present and the past of Russia are then surprised why I do not take them seriously. In the USSR, there was so much good, but also bad. But in a fit of impotent rage, they try again and again to call for revolution, since the feeder has closed. I remember how political workers on garbage dumps in Japan rummaged around for the sake of free-standing refrigerators and audio equipment. The plates hung in Russian "Do not enter into Russian and Do not steal", it was so good in the USSR that sailors when entering ports in Japan probably worked from "consciousness" and prosperity in the country created by the communists and the Communist Party?
    2. Avior 5 January 2020 08: 49 New
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      What, in 2014, life was cut short?
      1. Squelcher 5 January 2020 09: 31 New
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        But do you need to turn on the brain or do you need analytical thinking? Summary table for 10 years, already 2024? But already from the article is a rotten bear when in the USSR they let in hundreds and in Russia like what? Dozens? The current liberals are pouring dirt on the USSR, the current "communists" - losers are not embarrassed to pour on both the past and the present it is disgusting.
        1. Avior 5 January 2020 09: 55 New
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          I'm fine with the brain, you follow your
          The lag sharply began to appear just in the last 5-10 years, when a sharp breakthrough occurred in the world in astronautics, but this is not on the table, very successfully drawn up
          1. Squelcher 5 January 2020 15: 24 New
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            For 5 years for 2015-2019 launches 97, this is on average more than during the Soviet era.
            Turn on the brain, they’re used to what they think they’ll organize for you, Mr. Communist, before pouring dirt on the present and past of Russia. The USSR died thanks to people like you.
            1. Avior 5 January 2020 18: 11 New
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              I'm tired of reading your crap. Your diagram is a filkin letter, as well as your reasoning
              Under the Union, there were 100 launches per year, not 5 years
              For the 80s, under a thousand launches in 10 years.

              https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_космических_запусков
              1. Squelcher 5 January 2020 20: 53 New
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                Read your link carefully before writing. This is a list of all space launches in the World, and not in the USSR. Or do you live in an alternative story where the world revolution triumphed? And Trotsky did not get an ice pick on the head?
                Directly on Lavrov it turns out.
                1. Avior 5 January 2020 20: 55 New
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                  Enough is enough
                  There are three columns in the table — the first total number in the world, the second with the Soviet flag — USSR, the third with the US flag — USA
  • pmkemcity 4 January 2020 05: 33 New
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    +22
    The author directly outdid both Ulyanov and Lenin! A new word in political economy. Everything is simpler - if the customer does not need it, then the contractor will not do anything either.
    And if we seriously return to political economy, it should be noted that in Russia this time is going on "the period of the initial accumulation of capital." From the same science, everyone knows that big money can only be gained in an unrighteous way. And here we have the redistribution of national property into private hands, the reconstruction of the capitalist class, so to speak, destroyed by the Bolsheviks. This is state policy. And who can say “the state is me”? Correctly! Only the ruling party (I say "party" because the word "gang" is not applicable in science).
    The "support of the throne" is now in some kind of prostration, because before that the employee was paid "state", and now his own, that is, the same "state", but as if his own, because if you can, with impunity, or rather directly encouraged, appropriate , then why give ...
    From feudalism we did not go anywhere. Feudalism is not characterized by free enterprise, but by the "strength" of the workforce. So much for the "distant cattle breeding", that is, the "peasants' peasants" who are now working on a rotational basis not only in the far north, but also in Moscow and other "centers" (in relation to the outback). There is no freedom of movement of labor within the state. An employee cannot move from a "bad master" to a "good" one. Firstly, all the “bad” ones, and secondly, the employee is enslaved by a residence permit, an apartment (which you can’t buy, you can’t buy in another region), elderly parents, excessive tariffs for moving around the country and many other factors.
    In any state there is a layer of people "indifferent." But it will be in demand only when the enemy stands at the walls of Moscow, and even worse, in the foothills of the Urals (which is for sure). The “sovereign” will have the will — new oprichniks (NKVD) will come, there will be no will, Minins and Pozharsky will come through defeat and humiliation (it is not yet known which state they will bring).
    1. 16329 4 January 2020 13: 05 New
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      Well, what kind of enslavement is it now, people are massively moving to Moscow, Petersburg, buying apartments there, on the other hand, some leave the capital, move to the provinces, preferring either “downshifting” or high salaries in the northern regions, which is the problem
      Our plants are owned by large companies with private and state participation, with the participation of foreign owners, etc.
      Unions must defend workers' rights, methods for this are known
      The state legislates only minimum tariffs and social benefits.
      If you legislatively limit management salaries, on the contrary, this will lead to an increase in economic irregularities, an increase in the number of fictitious companies, banal bribery, etc.
      I had experience working with state-owned oil and gas companies in the CIS countries and Lukoil Overseas, guess where there were fewer salaries and higher kickback requirements.
      Of course, in the national oil and gas holdings, despite the constant purges and mass landings of the management of these companies in some CIS countries
      1. pmkemcity 4 January 2020 14: 28 New
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        Yes, you looked in the mirror. Who are these "CIS"? The flesh of our flesh. Just a hypertrophied caricature of Russia. Lukoil Overseas company is small, and takes a little.
        They do not "move" to Moscow, but flee. They flee throwing everything. And only those who are younger, who still hope to live the rest of their lives “humanly”.
        High salaries in the northern regions? Where is it? How much is this? Maybe you have factories and belong to "companies with private and state participation," and the US has long had no factories.
        About "trade unions" - let someone else spit on you (if anything, then I'm from Kuzbass, miners are all that).
        1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 08 New
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          "And we have long been no factories" - This is where?
    2. depressant 4 January 2020 14: 34 New
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      pmkemcity, Lenin is out of date!
      We have now not a period of initial accumulation of capital, but a period of initial accumulation of Russian capital in the West.
      Piggymen are greedy and breed. The period can last forever.
  • kig
    kig 4 January 2020 05: 53 New
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    You drove along the Superjet, but meanwhile:

    "Superjet" promoted the popularity of local airlines[i] [/ i] is the newspaper Vzglyad.

    Here is an example of the right PR. Looking forward to rockets.
    1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 06: 12 New
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      +5
      Quote: kig
      "Superjet" promoted the popularity of local airlines

      Yeah, billions of subsidies are booming. A small aircraft, we simply do not let out.
      An-2 and An-24 type planes are now nothing to replace them - foreign cars are more expensive and poorly suited to our climate, besides, there is nowhere to get pilots - there are few people who want to fly in the regions ”

      This is from your own example.
  • NEXUS 4 January 2020 06: 06 New
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    Captain obvious...
    Nobody wants to work on CNC machines worth a million euros and get twenty thousand rubles. It is not interesting. And directors literally cry in a voice. And why the salary is scanty? And because the money distribution system is classic feudal. And the income of the machinist is formed “by the residual principle”. And those who want to participate in this attraction of unprecedented generosity are becoming less and less.

    Our helmsmen pay exactly what the laborer could buy to eat and not die, but he could not buy a Kalashnikov assault rifle to shoot them for their reforms and wages.
  • Ross xnumx 4 January 2020 06: 08 New
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    Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail

    Because ... But for no reason, like horseradish from the hill go up and grow up the statuses of previously unknown "figures" who have absolutely nothing to prove in real affairs and projects, except development appropriation of budget funds.
    As for the planes. Remember there was a song:
    We learn to fly planes
    We teach them the fear of winning.
    This is our job -
    Learning to fly airplanes.


    So here. Thank God, the Russian land has not become impoverished by the testers. As for the creators ... One cannot create masterpieces in a country with destroyed industrial potential in the hope of “partnership” ties and components. Therefore, in our use there are many prospects and few real significant projects ..
    Chicken can also be taught to fly. Only very low ... wassat A bear - ride a bike.
    Unprofessional, unsuitable people in different industries will destroy us national capitalist economy. Excuse me, but to call professionalism the growth of dollar billionaires and millionaires is neither “a hand does not turn”, nor “a tongue does not rise” ... yes
    1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 06: 20 New
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      Quote: ROSS 42
      Excuse me, but to call professionalism the growth of dollar billionaires and millionaires is neither “a hand does not turn”, nor “a tongue does not rise” ...

      So comrade Stalin is recalled ...
      “Well, how are you doing there?” Asked Stalin.

      - The command raises the question that the front headquarters are very close to the front line of defense. It is necessary to withdraw the front headquarters east of Moscow, and organize the KP on the eastern outskirts of Moscow!

      Quite a long silence reigned ...

      - Comrade Stepanov, ask comrades - do they have shovels? - Stalin asked calmly.

      “Now ...” a long pause followed again. “What shovels, Comrade Stalin?”

      “Anyway.”

      - Now ... - Quite quickly, Stepanov reported: - There are shovels, comrade Stalin!

      “Tell your comrades, let them take shovels and dig graves for themselves.” The front headquarters will remain in Perkhushkovo, and I will remain in Moscow. Bye.

      I would lend our defective shovel ...
  • high 4 January 2020 06: 19 New
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    Once, the writer Prilepin visited the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) and saw in the lobby of the institute a list of developers of the first Sputnik, after which he wrote:
    I thought it was a sinful thing that the chief designer of the satellite is Korolev, and here only Jews and Korolev do not even exist. Strange .....

    Here is the list:
    Valentin Semenovich Etkin,
    Pavel Efimovich Elyasberg,
    Yan Lvovich Ziman,
    Yakov Borisovich Zeldovich,
    Georgy Ivanovich Petrov,
    Yakov Samuilovich Shklovsky,
    George Stepanovich Narimanov,
    Konstantin Iosifovich Gringauz,
    Yuri Ilyich Halperin,
    Semyon Samoilovich Moiseev,
    Vasily Ivanovich Moroz.

    https://www.ixbt.com/live/oldkadet/tak-kto-zhe-izobrel-pervyy-sputnik-gde-te-sovetskie-evrei.html
    1. Avior 5 January 2020 08: 57 New
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      An example that writers don’t need to write what they don’t understand
      The first satellite had the simplest design possible and, against the background of the launch vehicle that launched it into space, looked like the simplest part of the system
      But the developers of the rocket - the carrier, the famous royal seven ...
      In general: S.P. Korolev
      DU: V.P. Glushko
      SU: M.S. Ryazansky, N.A. Pilyugin
      BUT: V.P. Barmin
      KP: V.I. Kuznetsov
      1. kiril1246 5 January 2020 21: 15 New
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        Quote: Avior
        An example of the fact that writers do not need to write something in which they do not understand
        The first satellite had the simplest design possible and, against the background of the launch vehicle that launched it into space, looked like the simplest part of the system
        But the developers of the rocket - the carrier, the famous royal seven ...
        In general: S.P. Korolev
        DU: V.P. Glushko
        SU: M.S. Ryazansky, N.A. Pilyugin
        BUT: V.P. Barmin
        KP: V.I. Kuznetsov


        Here are the real developers of the first satellite:
        1. Avior 6 January 2020 07: 20 New
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          And I didn’t argue with that
          But this is only part of the system, relatively small and
          Sutnik-1 is the first artificial Earth satellite, the Soviet spacecraft launched into orbit on October 4, 1957. The code designation for the satellite is “PS-1” (“The Simplest Sputnik-1”). The launch was carried out from the 5th research site of the USSR Ministry of Defense Tyura-Tam (later known as the Baikonur Cosmodrome) on the Sputnik launch vehicle, which was created on the basis of the R-7 intercontinental ballistic missile.

          Another thing is that the complexity of the first satellite could not be compared with the complexity of the launch vehicle that launched it into space.
          But the creators of the most difficult part, the "seven" - as I have listed
          And the creation of the first satellite affected a lot of people, except for those whose photos are hanging, including the creation of ground-based infrastructure for space flights and other
          Scientists M. V. Keldysh, M. K. Tikhonravov, O. G. Ivanovsky, N. S. Lidorenko, G. Yu. Maksimov worked on the creation of an artificial Earth satellite, led by the founder of practical cosmonautics S. P. Korolev. V.I. Lappo, K.I. Gringauz, B.S. Chekunov, A.V. Bukhtiyarov and many others.

          https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Спутник-1 hi
  • Van 16 4 January 2020 06: 30 New
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    Everything is correct in the article. The system has changed dramatically, the priority is the salary of directors and superiors, rather than workers and engineers. And not new technologies and equipment. And this does not happen - you don’t pay money and get the result.
    1. victor50 4 January 2020 12: 26 New
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      Quote: Van 16
      And this does not happen - you don’t pay money and get the result.

      They pay money. For loyalty and devotion. In order to increase the income of the payer.
  • Van 16 4 January 2020 06: 36 New
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    By the way, just as an example, in Soviet times a person left the defense plant for another enterprise (which was quite rare, and the salaries were good and other goodies) he was torn off with his hands, because he is also a good specialist and knows new machines, at present time from the same factory it is unlikely that anyone will be taken to the side, well, if only with a large decrease, everywhere he is met with the first question: "Ah, you all work on the same junk?"
  • sagitch 4 January 2020 06: 45 New
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    In all countries that are engaged in such developments, accidents happen, not only in Russia.
    To people, maybe people come across pests, so it's not because of the salary. Look, for example, our managers, managers, receive billions, and all one pests.
  • nikvic46 4 January 2020 06: 50 New
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    It’s not clear much. Why does a worker doing jewelry work get less than a worker who does a lot of rough work. I hear on TV that Yakutia is the most subsidized region in the country. But what about diamond mining? 95% mined diamonds in the country. Or have diamonds become cheaper? And everywhere questions, questions.
    1. The popuas 4 January 2020 07: 42 New
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      What does the workers have to do with it !? They do not sell diamonds, they mine them! But who sells, the lion's share in their pocket, and the workers on the residual principle! The same thing is happening in healthcare and education now, directors and pets get it, and the rest get leftovers from the table!
  • Strashila 4 January 2020 06: 52 New
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    Here the words of Matroskin’s cat are appropriate: “we have money, we have no brains”.
    Under the banner of the struggle against the ideas of communism, the planned state socialist economic system was destroyed.
    A plane or a rocket, this is the result of the work of hundreds of companies that many key ones were competently optimized from zero in the 90s by young reformers under the direction of comrades from the State Department.
    The attempt to use purchases abroad did not justify itself in terms of accessibility and quality.
    Modern entrepreneurs can neither build a Yo-mobile, nor a plant for a green lard that went bankrupt at the construction stage.
    So, the designer and production work with what is.
    1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 10: 44 New
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      Quote: Strashila
      A plane or a rocket, this is the result of the work of hundreds of companies that many key ones were competently optimized from zero in the 90s by young reformers under the direction of comrades from the State Department.


      But such machines were in our school. Let Rogozins go to the garage to this man and learn to work.
      1. Strashila 4 January 2020 13: 33 New
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        The Stalinist slogan is more alive than all the living ... "PERSONNEL DECIDE EVERYTHING."
        And our domestic, fit in place with a chisel and sledgehammer.
        The fact that this person needs to learn is a fact.
        Such people must be protected, like the apple of an eye.
        1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 13: 49 New
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          Quote: Strashila
          The fact that this person needs to learn is a fact.
          Such people must be protected, like the apple of an eye.

          Yes, the guy’s hands are growing from the right place. It was already enviable. I like tinkering myself, but I could hardly have come up with this. For such a device is not ashamed to give a bonus. good And the designers will either overwhelm the plane, or they will have the Russian Post drone screwed up. And here the guy on his knee in the garage created a masterpiece using a school machine.
          1. Strashila 4 January 2020 14: 35 New
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            0
            At the level of the Soviet aircraft modeling circle.
            Simple tasks require simple solutions, not far-fetched troubles.
            Moreover, everything is collected from the store.
            1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 05 New
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              Quote: Strashila
              At the level of the Soviet aircraft modeling circle.

              As a child, I also went to the “Young Technician” aircraft model club, but we did much more primitive things, and on the machine except that the tip for the missiles could be machined. And here he has a drawing, and a grinder, and welding, and soldering and painting, and rolling and drilling and sawing. It is a pleasure to watch how it works.
            2. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 23 New
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              Quote: Strashila
              Moreover, everything is collected from the store.

              And you just watched the video?
              1. Strashila 4 January 2020 17: 53 New
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                0
                Yes, I looked ... or according to your old tradition, he took everything from a neighboring machine factory.
                1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 18: 28 New
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                  Quote: Strashila
                  Yes, I looked ... or according to your old tradition, he took everything from a neighboring machine factory.

                  You’re wondering, but where can he get the same stainless steel on the engine for an airplane, how not to buy it? Or the same blank that he turned? However, you can buy not only in the store, I recently built a fence, I bought pipes on poles at the scrap metal collection point. By the way, I, for example, made a camping turbine stove from an old Chinese stainless steel thermos. He didn’t throw out a broken thermos, he let it go. And at the points of reception of which you just can’t find, our bourgeois also sometimes buys blanks there for cheap.
          2. Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 17 New
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            In the USSR, heavy planes were not the same a lot - and this also was not an unsolvable problem.
            1. Mordvin 3 4 January 2020 15: 42 New
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              Quote: Vadim237
              In the USSR, heavy planes were not the same a lot - and this also was not an unsolvable problem.

              Airplanes have been doing for a hundred years. Designer IL-112V blamed the younger generation. Count a little too much. My neighbor, a teacher of compromising materials, confirmed that the level of students fell. Some boys no longer know what a threaded connection is. The question is, why did you even get into such a technical institute? And it's easy to get crusts, although he has never even repaired a bicycle in his life. The neighbor went nuts: "Why are you such a kid if you have never turned a bolt or a screw in your life?" Well, about IL, here is the link.
              http://militariorg.ucoz.ru/publ/publ_1/vzlet_i_padenie_rossijskoj_aviacii_my_razuchilis_stroit_samolety/15-1-0-92352
              1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 45 New
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                You are his full interview, read all the charges there are not - all the same problems that were in the design and production as in the USSR. And you tell others about the threaded connection.
          3. region58 6 January 2020 02: 26 New
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            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            It was already enviable.

            Yeah ... I thought - I’ll take a quick look ... And in one breath more than an hour ... Enviously, yes ... For good, of course. Although he, too, dabble in homemade goods.
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Let Rogozins go to the garage to this man

            But this is by no means. stop Otherwise kirdyk to the whole garage.
  • Sahalinets 4 January 2020 06: 55 New
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    Ah, the author, everything is much worse than you think!
    Do you think that if you bring money into these sectors, then everything will work out? No one to pay them! Those. there are people with diplomas, but the value of these diplomas ...
    I have been working in the higher education system for many years and I will say bluntly - it is in a catastrophic situation and all its "reforms" are the rearrangement of chairs on the deck of the Titanic. The main task of current universities is to make money. The main task of teachers is to maintain the contingent! And as a result, anyone gets diplomas if they only pay, and this leads to the degradation of even smart students. In our current university, we are preparing techies for train, d. and I’m scared to think what will happen when these lazy people start building bridges and tunnels. Better to let Sims sell ...
    And I'm sure metastases go all over the system. Aviation universities are no exception.
    1. Ingvar 72 4 January 2020 09: 28 New
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      Quote: Sahalinets
      And I'm sure metastases go all over the system. Aviation universities are no exception.

      Best of all, degradation is noticeable in medicine - a new generation of doctors fall into positions for money, and they want to repulse them faster. A familiar doctor of the old school ten years ago said, “If something serious, go straight to Samara.” But once the Togliatti medical town was the best hospital in the region. hi
  • bober1982 4 January 2020 07: 04 New
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    It was in the 2010s that the scientific and technological failure in Russia finally became clear, copyright quote.
    It's hard not to say, but - the author is very dull, if only he knew about the final failure in the 2010s.
    And, about Japan and feudalism, he also "piled up", and not correctly, and out of place.
  • Alevil 4 January 2020 07: 06 New
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    So everything seems to be correct, but too much causticity is not the case.

    And yet (citation): "After a century and a half, the results showed themselves in all its glory just off the coast (and on the coast) of the Crimea, so beloved by our patriots."
    What’s the problem here? Yes, it’s clear that in the 19th century Russia was technologically behind England and France due to a backward management system and public relations, but why write about Crimea, “beloved by our patriots”? Or according to the author, if you respect and admire our ancestors who mastered and defended Crimea, then you, therefore, are a backward obscurantist? Or maybe all “advanced, advanced and handshake” from one word “Crimea” should frown and shout: “Crimea is Ukraine! We are here power! Russia will be free!”. In fact, reunification with Crimea is one of the few right things that this system did in Russia and if the same right decisions were made in terms of development and economy (contrary to the liberoid paradigm), our country would be quite developing and prosperous .
    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 13 New
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      Yes, it’s clear that in the 19th century Russia was technologically behind England and France due to a backward management system and public relations, but why write about Crimea, “beloved by our patriots”?


      And it is not superfluous to recall the Crimean War and the reasons for the defeat.
      There, Nicholas the First (Palkin), with all his might over the army and navy, ruled the whole board ...
      He invested all the money there, Constantinople was made to take ...
      and then suddenly - steamboats and fittings ...
      such a cholera ...
      1. Alevil 4 January 2020 19: 58 New
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        Technological backwardness is not a reason to give up one’s interests, all the more so as not a reason to turn Russian people over to tear apart all evil spirits. As for the Crimea in 2014, even a mild Ukrainization would not be much better than this very tear. As for the Crimea 1853-1856, then, despite the steamboats and fittings, the Western coalition did not achieve even a small part of what it was counting on. The British, by the way, had just grandiose plans, but they broke their teeth in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, the Baltic, and the White Sea. And the French made a grandiose miscalculation at all by participating in this coalition (perhaps one of the most ambitious in their entire history), which they and their dumb emperor fully felt in their own skin in 1870-1871. So, often, enormous technological superiority does not give the desired result and, moreover, does not give any right to the lagging side to surrender their interests without a fight.
        I do not in any way condone Nicholas 1. I believe that he lost a huge amount of historical time; did not start development, but rather froze it; trusted foreigners too much in ruling Russia; Too much respect and confidence in the decency of "our Western partners"; did not destroy the Austrian empire in time, helping it to crush the rebellion of the Hungarians and much, much more.
        1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 20: 15 New
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          As for the Crimea 1853-1856, then, despite the steamboats and fittings, the Western coalition did not achieve even a small part of what it was counting on. The British, by the way, had just grandiose plans, but then they broke their teeth


          The question is precisely - Nikolai the First was engaged in the army, the army and again the army.
          And then it turned out ... that the technological era has changed

          he lost a tremendous amount of historical time; did not start development, but rather froze it


          This is exactly what this conversation is about - waking up was unpleasant
          Talk about this.
          1. Alevil 4 January 2020 20: 57 New
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            I agree in your article that the entire current state policy and the system of peripheral capitalism, built by the liberals in the 90s and, in essence, remained unchanged under Putin, leads Russia to backwardness. The questions cause some seemingly nuances that are valuable, and therefore the most important. Moreover, I believe that the real development of Russia will begin exactly when Russia will get rid of its largely neocolonial and peripheral status, and this may not appeal to many and lead to many conflicts. And one needs to be mentally prepared for these conflicts, despite the backwardness.
  • SOVIET UNION 2 4 January 2020 07: 25 New
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    Under the so-called market economy, “non-targeted expenses” began to be cut in the first place: salaries and social expenses. And the market leveling for ordinary employees has flourished with magnificent colors: everyone is paid almost equally little.
    N yes! However! And some are rubbing us into the birthmarks of socialism!
    But Nicholas II, even after the defeat from Japan, was not ready for such a decisive reversal (nobles, large landowners - the support of the throne).
    Even after US sanctions, Russia is not ready for a decisive reversal from the West!
    And, unlike the times of the USSR, they live in the same economic system. Want to get an apartment? Take a mortgage!
    Do not tell! Some live in the system of socialism and communism, those who are above. Others in the capitalist system. One benefits and social guarantees, the other requirements. Is the system of social guarantees not socialism and communism? Well, the boss, the deputy, the official wanted to make such a salary. what's this? You do not cause a break in the template news? Capitalism is an economic rationale! Well, where is the business case? Why is the minimum wage exactly 12 thousand, not 120 thousand? Why is the salary of an official or deputy such? What business case? The boss wrote himself a salary or bonus on what economic justification? Didn’t you ask yourself such questions? Well, where is the effectiveness if the patches are assigned to themselves from a flashlight? And if income needs to be provided for the family? Well, what the hell efficiency !? And is not a mortgage a serfdom in a modern round of history?
  • rocket757 4 January 2020 07: 30 New
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    The dodger came. Affectors have an attack of self-flagellation.
    In principle, nothing new has been written .... in principle, there are more than one reason, but self-flagellation has never helped in anything.
  • 2112vda 4 January 2020 08: 42 New
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    The cause of all the failures in the aerospace industry is simple to stupor. Everyone is run by “effective” roofing felts, “defective” managers. Now they are sculpting another "masterpiece" from the Aurus engine for civilian aircraft. I have one simple question for them. Gentlemen, do you even read books? Again, in the best traditions of "skakuazov", all the same "dancing on the rake." Well, all this has already passed in the 40s of the last century. All over the world, after 1945, civilian aircraft were operated with air-cooled aircraft engines, this is before the transition to gas turbine engines and theater of operations. Now again, "repeating the past." How much can you do?
  • U-58 4 January 2020 09: 00 New
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    I can’t speak for the whole country, but for the aerospace industry, quite.
    The author raised the most relevant topic.
    Voros salary is the key at the moment in the issue of personnel.
    The very hands of workers who will be called "golden hands."
    Enterprises, having gone to the pride of "joint-stock companies", are building the usual capitalistic practice: greater profit at the lowest cost.
    And first of all, due to the salary of staff (performers).
    The executives do not limit themselves, simultaneously letting the nearest khan's circle live.
    The level of salaries of workers is now being adjusted not to the importance of the tasks performed, but to the average indicators for the region, for the industry in this region, for the salary of neighboring enterprises, regardless of industry affiliation.
    Therefore, often a worker in a trolleybus depot across the road can receive as much, if not more, than a worker producing parts of a rocket, engine, control system.
    Belonging to the aviation or space industry does not cause pride.
    This leads to the fact that random people appear on such enterprises.
    They do not give a damn about the high status of products, the highest requirements for them.
    They came to earn.
    Well, it won’t "roll", so they leave for the same trolleybus depot, at the candle factory ...
    The requirements there are incommensurably less, the salary is the same ...
    Neither the salary nor the prestige holds the worker (controller, foreman, technologist).
    Again, the ongoing "optimization" leads to a reduction in staffing units.
    With a subsequent set of the same staff units.
    And the fact that they have reduced more or less qualified personnel, and scored it is not known what (yes, it is known that and to whom) leads to a drop in production culture, mass rejection and as a result ..
    Well, clearly, what leads.
    General underfunding, carried out in order to save the budget, which, as it turned out, is not so poor, affects primarily grassroots performers.
    The authorities, it will not offend itself in any financial situation.
    Therefore, it is impossible to limit oneself to rare complaints about low salaries.
    It is necessary to turn the consciousness, to conduct a specific policy for the training and stabilization of personnel.
    If now is the time for money, then let's do it "from the ruble."
    1. depressant 4 January 2020 15: 04 New
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      Colleague, you forgot to mention that managers, by their ignorance, allow the replacement of expensive grades of materials for products with cheap ones whose strength is lower, accident rate increases. There have been cases.
      But the opportunity to put the saved in your pocket also increases.
      1. U-58 4 January 2020 15: 48 New
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        I know how to replace a progressive tool with an affordable and cheaper one and what it leads to.
        I have not heard about the replacement of structural materials ...
        Unless within the standard
        1. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2020 18: 59 New
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          Quote: U-58
          I have not heard about the replacement of structural materials ...

          On Kuznetsovo, this is in the order of things.
          It took titanium for stamping, bought it, started stamping, cracked. They began to understand, found out the titanium of this brand, but very old, but bought cheaper. What to do, do the parts crack? Details made, welded cracks, details polished. Everyone knew everything, but they pretended to be so.
          Why did the plane (rocket, steamboat, steam locomotive) crash, explode, break? But the devil knows, probably the sanctions are to blame ...
  • parusnik 4 January 2020 09: 14 New
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    ... Well, this is one side of the coin, as indicated by the author. In our area, under the totalitarian regime, there were vocational schools taught to tractor drivers, after 8th grade, a classmate went there to study, graduated with honors, went to work in the Moscow region in distribution, apparently there weren’t enough staff there ... The nephew, already now, graduated from the Krasnodar Polytechnic, didn’t send him anywhere, look for work yourself, maybe you’ll fit somewhere until he joined the army .. But he’s not the only one ... Yes, they’re required experts with experience ... Father is trying to take on his own production, he is told that we have our children ...
  • high 4 January 2020 09: 19 New
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    The casket just opens:
    - On May 2, 2017, it became known that Alexei Rogozin, the son of Dmitry Rogozin, was approved by the General Director of IL.
    - The son of the former head of the presidential administration, Sergei Ivanov, Sergei Ivanov Jr., became the new head of the ALROSA diamond mining company.
    - Dmitry Patrushev, the eldest son of Secretary of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, was appointed Minister of Agriculture on May 18, 2018 ....
    - Andrei Patrushev, the youngest son of the Secretary of the Security Council, is Chairman of the Board of Directors of CenterKaspneftegaz
    - Sergey Matvienko, the son of the chairman of the Federation Council, Valentina Matvienko, is a co-owner of eight companies.
    - Pavel Fradkov, son of the former head of government Mikhail Fradkov, deputy managing director of the president .......

    https://www.rbc.ru/photoreport/06/06/2017/58b416609a7947e593629ec0
  • starev 4 January 2020 09: 23 New
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    Good afternoon!
    I will express myself in the text of this article as the head of a small manufacturing company.
    1. Significantly reduce taxes on payroll;
    2. Allow to take into account payroll expenses when calculating VAT;
    3. To force, finally, the state to really reduce its operating expenses for the functioning of the bureaucracy throughout the country as compensation for the shortfall in state revenues from the first two points.
    And then the payment of a good engineer is 200-300 thousand rubles. it won't be fiction.
    Because the head of the enterprise, from a financial point of view, does not matter whether to spend part of the profit of the enterprise on increasing the payroll of the employees of the enterprise or to pay the same money as VAT and income tax.
    And from a practical point of view, a well-motivated engineer can do a lot of good for the company.
    Now, almost all free money, our "beautiful" state withdraws from enterprises as direct and indirect taxes! What kind of development and incentive for employees ....
    And for the production of consumer goods there is a very clear cut-off at the price of products. If the price of your products is more than the price of the Chinese analogue + the cost of delivery of the Russian Federation, then your goods most likely will not be sold in any significant quantities.
    So you think, or take a new machine on lease, or hire a good specialist, or pay all taxes.
    All together in this state cannot be done.
    1. naidas 4 January 2020 12: 15 New
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      Quote: starev
      And then the payment of a good engineer is 200-300 thousand rubles. it won't be fiction.

      And the engineer will fuck up:
      An acquaintance is developing missiles - once he swore and drilled holes at random. Yes, and to get something done from a turner, you need to not only bow to the belt, but also crawl on your knees.
    2. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2020 19: 02 New
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      Quote: starev
      So you think, or take a new machine on lease, or hire a good specialist,

      But what for take a new machine, if there is no good specialist for this machine in the payroll fund to pay for the RFP? So we work on NTs-31 of 1982 of a birth.
  • unknown 4 January 2020 09: 26 New
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    Power is at the merchant estate.
    More precisely, the commercial estate seized this power as a result of an endless series of "orange" revolutions, called "bourgeois", "socialist", "democratic".
    The commercial estate is not interested in the development of productive forces.
    Creation of new industries is difficult, time consuming and expensive.
    Trading is more profitable.
    And it’s even more profitable to engage in usury, lending money at interest.
    It was usury, when a religious sect with signs of class, formalized itself as a "separate people" and became the main reason for the persecution of the "self-chosen."
    1. bobwings 4 January 2020 10: 37 New
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      These most self-selected religious sectarians were the color of Soviet science. Brilliant scientists, talented engineers, the best doctors ... Representatives of this "sect", after the revolution gave them the opportunity to develop normally, for some 30 years made an absolutely disproportionate amount to the country's development ... Even in brands like MiG , Mi, La there are capital letters of their "sectarian" surnames. And then people like you started squeezing them out of all areas, denying talent to the best universities, insulting, accusing them of all your troubles ... So they left, and now their children will hear the same contribution to the science of your potential opponents.
      1. pmkemcity 4 January 2020 14: 53 New
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        Are you sure you left?
        Uppercase letters are not always what they deserve. And where one "sectarian" got, soon there will be a "promised land"
      2. ultra 4 January 2020 20: 12 New
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        Quote: bobwings
        And then people like you started squeezing them out of all areas, denying talent to the best universities

        Bullshit. wassat
    2. 2112vda 4 January 2020 20: 58 New
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      Everything is correct. Democracy is the power of "demos." Demos, in ancient Greece were called merchants, small slave owners and small artisans who also had slaves. Then the traders ruled and now too.
  • Victor N 4 January 2020 09: 44 New
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    What did you want to write about? I would use training proposals, but .....
  • nikolaj1703 4 January 2020 09: 52 New
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    The relationship system needs to be changed. Do not take GDP, develop and train personnel. Stalin I.V. said: "Cadres decide EVERYTHING!" Feed better then they will not fly away!
    1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 50 New
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      Production develops as the market needs, there is a demand - there will be a plant, a factory - there will be an offer.
      1. Alf
        Alf 5 January 2020 17: 14 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        Production develops as the market needs, there is a demand - there will be a plant, a factory - there will be an offer.

        Factories scream, locksmiths, turners and milling cutters are needed, and for some reason universities only drive lawyers and managers. Where is the "hand of the market"?
        1. Golovan Jack 5 January 2020 17: 30 New
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          Quote: Alf
          The factories scream, we need locksmiths, turners and milling cutters, but for some reason universities only drive lawyers and managers

          Yes. This difficult time is the beginning of the year. So many holidays, so many reasons not to drink wink

          1. Who are the "milling cutters" that the factories are screaming about?
          2. What kind of factories are those that “scream”? They are stupid factories - say they pay at least fifty dollars in their hands - and you will be "milling cutters" ... what are they to shout?
          3. When did universities prepare these “milling cutters”? My friend Vasily, more accurately, more accurately ... New Year is such a thing, here it is wise to laughing
  • 1536 4 January 2020 10: 00 New
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    Yes, everything is simple: talk with engineers in the production, at a research institute or design bureau. All questions will be answered. There are no orders from either the state or our glorious Forbes members. Successful startups go west or to China. There is no freedom in choosing those or components, parts, raw materials, etc., because either this is not all, or it belongs to some uncle who wanted to fly your planes from the high bell tower, he has his own.
    In Soviet times, the government set a task, allocated money for it, controlled the deadlines, and accepted work. If this work was not done on time, at best it was a design bureau, research institute or factory did not receive more orders, at worst they combined with some more successful enterprise, and what was spent did not return to the budget and people still guaranteed to receive what they did not earn. Good or bad, but it worked. It is impossible for the industry of group A, as they were called in the Soviet economy, to be regulated only by market principles of management. Not a single enterprise in the world today producing advanced machinery, machines and equipment operates without state support. We don’t have to talk about Group B enterprises today, since they are no longer in the Soviet sense of the word. These enterprises today are completely market-oriented, but in order to produce something, they bow to Western investors, in order to get at least something that will allow them to produce products or simply resell what is produced in Southeast Asia or China.
    Ask the engineers who worked in the 1980s what they lacked in that life, what was in the way? Many of them are still alive today, they remember those years very well. Some even remember why they chose the Councils of labor collectives, putting at the head of a drunkard director or secretary of the party committee. After hearing their answer, taking note of it, analyzing, you can change everything for the better in a matter of years. If desired, of course.
  • Nait 4 January 2020 10: 03 New
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    Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not! And the director of a large plant could not bathe in luxury against the background of hungry turners and technologists. Therefore, the result was. Disappointing results in medicine and education are less noticeable. But planes and missiles ... you can’t hide it. In fact, it’s not just the new, the old, and the alien that are being exploited with difficulty.


    Like if Rogozin and the bosses cut their salaries lower and divide by all in the industry, something will change. Copecks will be added to the salary.
    It’s just that Russia has such a Cosmos for which it has enough money.
    It’s also a military unit to support and develop - otherwise there will be nothing to grieve about ....
    In general, I am surprised at how it is possible to maintain the existing level and somehow develop it.
    After all, GLONASS is supported (you don’t need to go out, that it is not needed, not accurate - it's just stupid),
    The ships were converted to digital, created booster blocks, they are building a Cosmodrome,
    make Angara-5, sawing Zenith Soyuz-5 (Irtysh), ... launched Spectrum-RG - that's all, damn it, it's bad - right?
    Or manned space flight - only Russia has it in its normal form.

    Simply put, rockets began to fall. And this began to happen very long before Rogozin. And every time an investigation, trial ... allegedly measures were taken

    Not supposedly, but measures were taken - last year all launches were successful.
    Open your eyes.
    1. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 17: 52 New
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      Like if Rogozin and the bosses cut their salaries lower and divide by all in the industry, something will change.
      If the workers are not skilled, then right, this will not help. But you misunderstand the situation, you need to pay a lot only for skilled workers and this is one of the measures, and money must be allowed for vocational education in this industry and for training personnel. Well, a high salary is needed so that the cadres do not scatter.
      Is it really not clear?
      1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 09 New
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        you need to pay a lot only to skilled workers and this is one of the measures, and money must be allowed for vocational education in this industry and for training personnel. Well, a high salary is needed so that the cadres do not scatter.


        Like that, but for now ...

  • erofich 4 January 2020 10: 06 New
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    It remains to call for barricades. It seems to me a little more, and many will support it.
    1. 16329 4 January 2020 13: 19 New
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      Who will call? Again large business and often affiliated with it officials and generals, or passengers of sealed wagons, or the “advanced” part of the nomenclature, who do you prefer as a person calling for barricades?
  • jekasimf 4 January 2020 10: 11 New
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    And nothing will change. The authorities have “effective managers.” And the throne’s support, they are again. And everyone who breaks into the bosses will live one day. Children in Britain, money in offshore.
    1. 16329 4 January 2020 13: 21 New
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      Children in Britain are assimilating, money will be diverted offshore, and then what?
      1. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 17: 54 New
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        And then our country will fall apart.
      2. Vadim237 4 January 2020 22: 53 New
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        These children studying abroad are only 10000, those who study in Russia are more than a million.
      3. jekasimf 5 January 2020 23: 30 New
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        And then a new generation will grow up, longing for power and a good life.
  • Nait 4 January 2020 10: 19 New
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    The fact that they created the Vanguard, hypersound, Sarmat (passed the throw tests) ... says that
    that the system can mobilize and create advanced technology.
    And that means there are people who can create this technique.
    I don’t want to say what else is there - I think there is also an understanding that we need to grow, cook
    and retain industry professionals.

    Let's hope that this will be reflected in the civilian Cosmos.
    The fact that the last year was trouble-free indicates that we are busy with the problem.

    In general, thanks to the sanctions, they cleared the liberal brains of those who still run the economy.
    It became clear that the principles of the WTO do not work - whoever has more clubs - that is right.
    The club is not only military.

    For example, I see that suddenly suddenly saw upstairs that Russian airlines DO NOT use Russian planes at all. It can be said at all.
    And then more attention was paid to the MS-21, IL-114 ...
    At least, the started projects will be completed - there is no doubt about it.
    1. UserGun 4 January 2020 14: 48 New
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      Quote: Nait
      The fact that they created the Vanguard, hypersound, Sarmat (passed the throw tests) ... says that
      that the system can mobilize and create advanced technology.


      This is very good, BUT! Due to what? !!!!

      You do not have to be an oracle or an awesome financier to see how this happened due to the taking of the dough from the already not very rich ones:

      1. Pension "reform"
      2. Raising direct and indirect taxes of citizens.
      3. Tighten all nuts completely.

      You can not endlessly twist the ropes and stretch the last veins. Maybe, instead of just such crazy show-offs and the same crazy child prodigies, can you just give people at least something to settle in in their native country?
    2. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 17: 59 New
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      the system can mobilize and create advanced technology.

      While the system uses the old achievements of the Communists and it is not known what will come of it. There "Bulava" as created, how many accidents, many no longer believed that it would be accepted into service.
  • Aleks2000 4 January 2020 10: 29 New
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    Good article. Albeit sad
    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 08 New
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      Yeah .... little fun here
  • Zusul 4 January 2020 10: 47 New
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    In general, I agree with the author. The way hard workers pay in our aerospace is a complete tin. For an example of a (real) Energomash plant, a zp master 70k (for which you have to kill), a zp gandir 2,5 lyama (this is after type reduction), a zp ordinary work shop 30-40 k ... And against this background, 2-3 times staff reductions per year (guess from workshops or factory management) to reduce costs. Then, however, they cry that there are not enough people, there is no one to work, and the jamshuts do not know how
    1. Karen 5 January 2020 23: 14 New
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      It’s strange ... Once a sidekick told about his former hard worker, turner ... He says that this grandfather moved to the Russian Federation to work on the defense industry, and that, from his words, he receives a stable $ 2500 per month, and if a lot you have to work until late, then three kilobaks give ...
      1. Alf
        Alf 6 January 2020 16: 54 New
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        Quote: Karen
        and if you have to work a lot until late, then three kilobaks give ...

        180 thousand turner? Himself is not funny? Where does this grandpa work? And how many glasses did he buy before saying that?
        1. Karen 6 January 2020 16: 57 New
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          No, it’s not funny ... Doesn’t consider the option that he and the “left” work are thrown there?
          1. Alf
            Alf 6 January 2020 17: 08 New
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            Quote: Karen
            No, it’s not funny ... Doesn’t consider the option that he and the “left” work are thrown there?

            What is it that he does such a left that he’s got so much brains?
            From your message, it becomes clear that without left work he receives what shish. That is, for eight hours he goes for ZP, and then they bring him a leftist, from whom he has 180 thousand? I repeat the question, what is he doing and in what quantities and at what time? Does he have 48 hours in a day?
            Once again, WHERE does it work? At the factory and, especially, from a private trader, this option will not work.
            You can stay at the plant for 2-3 hours and work for yourself, but now control overtime has been tightened and he won’t get such thousands. Breshet your friend as Trotsky ... And you listen to his tales. On my sharaga Kuznetsovo there are turners, though, there are CNC operators who officially have 60-70 thousand, but there they can’t work for 12 hours on a rolling schedule. So let your friend not..this is the most.
  • Nait 4 January 2020 10: 58 New
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    Quote: erofich
    It remains to call for barricades. It seems to me a little more, and many will support it.

    If they don’t support it, it’s your “bad life” that is no longer in the courtyards.
    1. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 05 New
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      If I bought a used foreign car, saving up half my life on it, then am I already rich?
      What kind of intellect must one possess in order to think so?
  • Nait 4 January 2020 11: 04 New
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    Quote: Zusul
    In general, I agree with the author. The way hard workers pay in our aerospace is a complete tin. For an example of a (real) Energomash plant, a zp master 70k (for which you have to kill), a zp gandir 2,5 lyama (this is after type reduction), a zp ordinary work shop 30-40 k ... And against this background, 2-3 times staff reductions per year (guess from workshops or factory management) to reduce costs. Then, however, they cry that there are not enough people, there is no one to work, and the jamshuts do not know how

    Here is the author, and it seems to you like math taught like Pinocchio with those three apples ....
    You’ll divide the director’s 2.5 lyama into the WHOLE factory - and so what?
    Will the hard workers live right?
    Divide these 2.5 lemas by the number of people working in Energomash, and then write here.
    Not tired yet to procrastinate this topic?
    After all, it's all from the series "to select, divide and put the cook in control ...".

    It is necessary that both hard workers and the director have decent salaries.
    The director of such an office is quite himself and MUST earn more orders of magnitude.
    1. divanka2020 4 January 2020 11: 44 New
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      Nait (Ivan) you seem to me to confuse the nerds with the townspeople, of course I admit. that there is a certain part of nerds-philistines, but most of them are still schizoid geeks who can eat moss
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 10 New
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      The director of such an office is quite himself and MUST earn more orders of magnitude.

      Why is it wrong in America, why is there not so much in Norway and where else is not so? Why in developed countries the wage gap is much smaller?
      Money should be spent on vocational education in the industry and on staff training. Well, a high salary is needed so that the cadres do not scatter.
      Is it really not clear?
  • Ros 56 4 January 2020 11: 14 New
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    After the New Year libations, the outbreak is not recovered. I can send the rope and soap.
    1. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 11 New
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      When there are no arguments, it remains only to be rude.
      1. Ros 56 5 January 2020 16: 20 New
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        Do not hell to lie no matter what, to any idiots. This is your Jewish fashion, to blame everything Soviet and Russian.
  • Vasil K. 4 January 2020 11: 15 New
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    Yes, I was finalizing my “term” to retirement under this system, on machines ... And there was no thought to stay there, although of course because of a better pension than my friends who did not dare to tear themselves away from their summer cottages and warm climate. Now fate drives them to the watchman when there is no health.
    1. 16329 4 January 2020 13: 26 New
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      It’s hard to work at all, especially in a factory, to defend a shift, even at a modern processing center, to breathe the vapor of metal, cooling emulsions, lubricants, etc.
      It’s much easier to chat with colleagues of different sexes all day in a mobile phone salon or a large electronics hypermarket.
      Here, even the difference in salary will help with difficulty
      1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 05 New
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        It’s hard to work at all, especially in a factory, to defend a shift, even at a modern processing center, to breathe the vapor of metal, cooling emulsions, lubricants, etc.


        1 Not so bad
        2 Work much more complex and much more interesting

        But with payment ... request
        1. Mordvin 3 5 January 2020 00: 04 New
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          Quote: Olezhek
          2 Work is much more complicated and much more interesting.

          Egorov, I will look at your enthusiasm if you stand behind the machine in an unheated workshop, at minus 20, pouring parts with emulsion, and melting the machine in the morning with a cutter. It’s the same as in besieged Leningrad. In one workshop there is no heating, in the other - a potbelly stove stands out of a barrel ... With a salary of 15 thousand. Metalworking. In the USSR, this was not even dreamed of in a nightmare. But the bourgeois complains that there is no money for heating. Despite the fact that in the Union in my own enterprise on batteries it was possible to cook soft-boiled eggs.
          1. beeper 5 January 2020 13: 14 New
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            hi Quite right, Comrade Mordvin 3, you draw an “oil painting” about a “nightmare” and a nightmare, as it was and as it is (in our Ukraine, for hard workers, it’s even sadder in general than in Russia!)!
            In winter, in frosts (in less frost, not with a cutter, manually-wielding a long key in a cartridge, like a lever, "stragging-pacing" an old 1K62 yes so that the drive “wedges” do not get burned when the motor is started), in the workshop, from solid frozen metal around, it breaks bones and fingers stick to the metal, but you need to work ...
            This cold is pretty exhausting for a shift, because there is almost no benefit from the “bourgeois” in a large frozen shop — only carbon monoxide (in the factory office there is autonomous central heating in winter, and cabinet air conditioners are equipped for “efficient managers” with their kindred "servants" - these parasites are funny and rosy-cheeked at any time of the year, they don’t care at all!).
            In Soviet times, in the same factory shops, in winter they worked in light overalls and on hot steam heaters heated their brakes before lunch (and some tricky "working women" from the former s / c, leaning their bare limbs against heating pipes, were blistering themselves the burns were “mastered” to loung on the “sick leave” ...).
            Under the Union and about “many months of wage arrears”, it could not be dreamed of in a nightmare, but with “independence” it became a common mass “phenomenon”! request
      2. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2020 19: 19 New
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        Quote: 16329
        Here, even the difference in salary will help with difficulty

        That is precisely why in the days of the USSR films, books, newspapers glorified precisely the “man of labor”, that is, the one who created something, no matter what, the worker or engineer. This is called "propaganda", and now an ideal of a person is being created in the form of a banker, advertiser or official, that is, a category that does not produce anything, but is, in fact, a parasite.
  • Givi_49 4 January 2020 11: 21 New
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    The author’s efforts crashed on the scale of the problem. Brain bunch.
    1. agond 4 January 2020 12: 01 New
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      They say that to become a good turner you need to work 15-20 years, a friend who has worked for 48 years and says he is still studying, and Ford said that you can teach any person from the street to do one operation in a few lessons, and it’s nice to perform, but only one , in America it was understood a hundred years ago, and we ignore it, everywhere universal workers are a reaper, and then they wonder why everything is crooked and why it fell.
      1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 04 New
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        They say that to become a good turner you need to work 15-20 years


        Well damn it - you are somehow overkill ...
        But five years is necessary (after vocational school-technical school)
  • divanka2020 4 January 2020 11: 41 New
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    Tesla mask brings profit, it may well be a super-tech sphere successful for business,
    that is, the costs of staff nerds pay off more than
    and in the USSR, all from under the stick worked it can not be compared)
    1. 16329 4 January 2020 13: 34 New
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      Tesla brings loss, not profit
      Electric cars are generally not bought, but leased
      An electric car is a low-tech cart on wheels compared to a modern ICE car
      The transition to the production of electric vehicles in Germany, for example, will lead to a reduction in the number of highly qualified personnel and a decrease in the number of people employed in industry
      As soon as industry is killed, the standard of living falls immediately, because in the services and trade sectors no one pays serious salaries to the mass worker
      Example, Ruhr region of the same Germany
    2. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2020 19: 21 New
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      Quote: divanka2020
      and in the USSR, all from under the stick worked it can not be compared)

      In which USSR, early Khrushchev or late Brezhnev?
  • Zusul 4 January 2020 11: 47 New
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    Quote: Nait
    Quote: Zusul
    In general, I agree with the author. The way hard workers pay in our aerospace is a complete tin. For an example of a (real) Energomash plant, a zp master 70k (for which you have to kill), a zp gandir 2,5 lyama (this is after type reduction), a zp ordinary work shop 30-40 k ... And against this background, 2-3 times staff reductions per year (guess from workshops or factory management) to reduce costs. Then, however, they cry that there are not enough people, there is no one to work, and the jamshuts do not know how

    Here is the author, and it seems to you like math taught like Pinocchio with those three apples ....
    You’ll divide the director’s 2.5 lyama into the WHOLE factory - and so what?
    Will the hard workers live right?
    Divide these 2.5 lemas by the number of people working in Energomash, and then write here.
    Not tired yet to procrastinate this topic?
    After all, it's all from the series "to select, divide and put the cook in control ...".

    It is necessary that both hard workers and the director have decent salaries.
    The director of such an office is quite himself and MUST earn more orders of magnitude.

    And then take and share? Maybe it’s more logical for real workers to raise their salaries so that the saying “for such a salary should not only not do anything, but also do a little harm” will go from the category of bitter truth to the category of stupid jokes?
  • oligofren32 4 January 2020 11: 53 New
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    He imagined that somewhere in a parallel universe, and specifically in the state of Michigan, such a star-striped patriot sits on a swollen couch and reasons why their starliner doesn’t get to a given orbit and the wunderwaffles from Saint Iloni explode on the starting table roofing felts from applying pressure to the tanks roofing felts from their assembly with a sledgehammer. Everything is lost! Trump FSE leaked! If only we had a prosperous liberal Russia and a trouble-free Roskosmos for 2019. Although not, some kind of nonsense
    Threat overweight IL-112 and a starliner that didn’t get to the orbit are the result of corruption or lack of proper competence in a country whose Disney capitalization is many times more than Gazprom? Although no, there are different situations, you need to understand!
    1. divanka2020 4 January 2020 11: 56 New
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      I think you don’t know what they think, the USA has 300 years of market, they are brains in comparison with us
      1. 16329 4 January 2020 13: 42 New
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        It is interesting to observe people who now believe sincerely in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxons over all and sincerely worship them, as they met those, they are usually from the territories between Russia and Eastern European countries
        1. Fan-fan 4 January 2020 18: 18 New
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          Yes, they do not have much superiority, on the contrary, but why were they able to create a more just society? Why do they live 4 times richer (I found such data on the average statistical resident in the network)? WHY?
          1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 23: 09 New
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            The superiority of the USA in the market compared with Russia is the most striking example of this company and the US brands have captured the whole world from gears to aircraft construction and electronics. And now compare how many of the same brands that are now widespread the USSR left for Russia.
          2. 16329 5 January 2020 00: 31 New
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            I did not find much justice in their society, someone lives richer, and someone poorer, others absolutely climate, territories, culture, religion, mentality, degree of openness and integration of the economy, markets, refinancing rates, place in the global economy, etc.
            I tried their system from the inside out, I know it enough, I have never been a fan of it, but this is how my career has developed, now I really regret that it happened, I'll see how it will be in the future
            From my point of view, we need to soberly evaluate ourselves, our pros and cons, understand our interests and the point of view of our opponents, internal and external. to be consistent and not indulge in despondency, because despondency is a mortal sin
      2. Olezhek 4 January 2020 20: 38 New
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        the USA has 300 years of market, they are brains in comparison with us


        no
    2. Olezhek 4 January 2020 20: 39 New
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      He imagined that somewhere in a parallel universe, specifically in the state of Michigan, such a star-striped patriot sits on a swollen couch and reasons why their starliner doesn’t get to a given orbit and the wunderwaffles from holy ilyon explode on the starting table roofing felts from applying pressure to the tanks roofing felts from their assembly with a sledgehammer.


      By the way, yes - Americans are crying frankly about the lack of modern fighter jets.
      There is such a topic.
      What's so surprising?
  • Olgovich 4 January 2020 12: 08 New
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    It is enough to recall the epic with the "Mace". By the way, how did it end there? And is it over? That is, we suddenly came up against the fact that a new promising missile for submarine launch vehicles just doesn't fly.

    what an amazing author: it covers a topic on which .... knows nothing and is even forced to ask .... readers. belay request
    Enlighten then about the volley rhinestone 4x - Mace:
    if they don’t “fly,” then someone can safely stand still ... NON-DROPS. yes

    By the way, we will tell the author that Maces the percentage of successful launches is higher than that of a similar predecessor of the SOVIET missile for submarines R-29RM

    And Poplars, by the way, also fly.

    new aircraft (of various classes) were created quite regularly

    beauty!
    Only .... why didn’t they conquer the WHOLE WORLD after the Iron Curtain fell, comrade. author?
    Why didn’t they rush to buy, such wonderful ones? And what's more, have you been banned from flying to your airports?

    The author is not aware, apparently, that they were called in the West ... "kerosene destruction plants", and the noise and emissions far exceeded all conceivable standards.

    By the way, no one really knew how much and what fell in the USSR, so "everything was fine"
    1. Foul skeptic 9 January 2020 18: 06 New
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      By the way, we will tell the author that Bulava has a percentage of successful launches higher than that of a similar predecessor of the SOVIET missile for the R-29RM submarine

      Hello Andrei.
      What do you think? And then there is a suspicion that you did not understand the question a little. Maybe I'm wrong, but there are prerequisites for such a thought.
      Only .... why didn’t they conquer the WHOLE WORLD after the Iron Curtain fell, comrade. author?
      Why didn’t they rush to buy, such wonderful ones?

      For example, the DS-90 was a good aircraft. Why has he not received distribution? The answer to this question and yours above is one and the same.
      And who was to conquer? Were there interested parties? I don’t remember. Since you are the director of a construction company, you should understand when it is real and when there is no place to occupy a niche in an already established market. "Three hundred and thirty-fourth" was no worse than either Embraer, Airbus, or Boeing in terms of economy at a lower cost, and what, did Russia conquer the world? No. China, despite all its current power, cannot push through either the C919 or ARJ21. Even with leasing. Because not so much the planes compete with their technical characteristics - the infrastructure and the availability of maintenance and repair (more precisely spare parts for repairs) compete in which old market companies always have an advantage over new ones.
      And what's more, have you been banned from flying to your airports?
      The author is not aware, apparently, that they were called in the West ... "kerosene destruction plants", and the noise and emissions far exceeded all conceivable standards.

      Banned? When? In the 2000s? Airplanes of the 1970s? At the time of the collapse of the Union were not banned? Were not. And then, imagine, DS-8 is also already banned. Just everything has its time. And certainly this does not mean that McDonald made bad planes. The fact that ICAO is tightening standards over and over again is probably normal. But projecting the norms of the present into the past is probably not normal.
      A generation of the 80s went on to replace 90s aircraft in the USSR - Tu-204, Tu-334, An-218. What do you say by fitting into the "norms" (even modern ones) of these aircraft?
  • Nait 4 January 2020 12: 10 New
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    Quote: Zusul
    And then take and share? Maybe it’s more logical for real workers to raise their salaries so that the saying “for such a salary should not only not do anything, but also do a little harm” will go from the category of bitter truth to the category of stupid jokes?

    Why then lumpenize about the salaries of directors?
    This is actually called inciting social discord ....
    And besides the article it does not produce anything productive.

    In order to raise all salaries, it is necessary to raise the economy, and with this the liberal brotherhood is not very good.
    Somehow such capitalism does not fit into Russian realities.
    More precisely, they correctly said here - the stage of capital accumulation.
    Read Theodore Dreiser - how it all was there even at the beginning of the 20th century.
    Workers in the ass, stealing everything that is possible and all who can.

    But again, judging by the results of the creation of advanced military equipment,
    still there is personnel and there is potential.
    Enough of the brain will not completely erupt.

    Interestingly, the old model of socialism will no longer work in Russia,
    but no new one was invented.
    The Chinese version also does not roll.
    Indeed, many do not know that it is not a social state.
    For example, pensions began to be paid AT ALL recently and only to a very small part of “pensioners”.
    But there they learned to spend targeted and efficiently, choosing from their billion
    all the best.

    We have so many howls when the retirement age was moved ....
    And estimate how much money would be for the Cosmos, if you did not pay pensions at all?
    It would certainly not only be on the far side of the moon.
    :)
  • Nick 4 January 2020 12: 11 New
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    Again prosralipolymers. Superjet flies for a long time and is sold abroad. IL-112 is not a plane yet. I’m still testing and finalizing it. In 2019, Roscosmos did not allow a single accident. Though weak, but comfort. Ato that lost a lot with the collapse of the USSR, so yes. Just look at Ukraine. The entire defense industry complex and the most powerful aerospace industry were destroyed. It is good that sensible leaders came to power in Russia in the 2000s, that they could be saved, that something new was developed. Raised the defense industry and science.
    1. Artemiy_2 4 January 2020 15: 47 New
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      Yes, here such articles are published every week. Never mind. It is strange that it was not Skomorokhov who wrote it, who likes to distort the facts and has already buried every KB, plant, etc., etc. in the country about ten times
      1. Nick 4 January 2020 16: 01 New
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        Quote: Artemiy_2
        Yes, here such articles are published every week. Never mind. It is strange that it was not Skomorokhov who wrote it, who likes to distort the facts and has already buried every KB, plant, etc., etc. in the country about ten times

        Yes, I received the next 2 warnings for critical comments on Skomorokhov's article and the removal of comments. Almost all of his articles in the spirit of A.G. Drum, in the sense of polymers lol
        Yours faithfully, hi
    2. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 02 New
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      Again prosralipolymers. Superjet flies for a long time and is sold abroad.

      good
      good
      drinks
  • shubin 4 January 2020 12: 26 New
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    Damn, good to scare! I still have to fly and fly on a superjet! angry
  • sergo1914 4 January 2020 12: 29 New
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    PS Moderators, this is not written about Putin. He was not born then.
    1. sergo1914 6 January 2020 19: 38 New
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      But on the other side. What is the difference?
  • vit670 4 January 2020 12: 48 New
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    Quote: alta
    The casket just opens:
    - On May 2, 2017, it became known that Alexei Rogozin, the son of Dmitry Rogozin, was approved by the General Director of IL.
    - The son of the former head of the presidential administration, Sergei Ivanov, Sergei Ivanov Jr., became the new head of the ALROSA diamond mining company.
    - Dmitry Patrushev, the eldest son of Secretary of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, was appointed Minister of Agriculture on May 18, 2018 ....
    - Andrei Patrushev, the youngest son of the Secretary of the Security Council, is Chairman of the Board of Directors of CenterKaspneftegaz
    - Sergey Matvienko, the son of the chairman of the Federation Council, Valentina Matvienko, is a co-owner of eight companies.
    - Pavel Fradkov, son of the former head of government Mikhail Fradkov, deputy managing director of the president .......

    https://www.rbc.ru/photoreport/06/06/2017/58b416609a7947e593629ec0

    And so everywhere in Russia from top to bottom! And you also want to achieve something with these ignoramuses in space! The fish rots from the head!
  • Eug
    Eug 4 January 2020 13: 17 New
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    At the undergraduate course, the instructor who read to us from practitioners said that we will become specialists only when we go through two cycles of “design — development — production — elimination of operational problems — analysis of what was thought of, what happened in the end and why it turned out that way”. And only then will it be possible to consider us specialists, and that is relative. As far as I understand, now we are not even talking about one full cycle ...
  • Yang yangov 4 January 2020 13: 19 New
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    there was a school in the USSR .. which trained highly skilled specialists in working professions. and they were called vocational schools. Now who are we cooking? PR managers, bankers and lawyers. and all in the same way. all go to be princes, but no one wants to feed a horse!
    1. arlekin 4 January 2020 13: 47 New
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      Quote: Yang Yangov
      there was a school in the USSR .. which trained highly skilled specialists in working professions. and they were called vocational schools

      And in our city during the Soviet era, those who did not enter the 9th grade, those who were in school from two to three, went to vocational schools and vocational schools. They also did not indulge vocational schools with frequent visits. Many, according to the results of this study, without completing vocational school, went to places not so remote.
      1. bober1982 4 January 2020 17: 46 New
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        Quote: arlekin
        those who did not enter the 9th grade, those who were in school from two to three went to vocational schools and vocational schools

        The same thing happened with us, the “heel” (GPTU) in Kuibyshev style (now Samara), what kind of high-class specialists are talking about, who were they trained there? Dreamers.
        1. brat07 7 January 2020 17: 05 New
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          Quote: bober1982
          Quote: arlekin
          those who did not enter the 9th grade, those who were in school from two to three went to vocational schools and vocational schools

          The same thing happened with us, the “heel” (GPTU) in Kuibyshev style (now Samara), what kind of high-class specialists are talking about, who were they trained there? Dreamers.

          Our GPTU was deciphered as follows: Lord help the stupid get settled.
          That's it. sad
  • Military Specialist 4 January 2020 13: 31 New
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    I read the article with interest, and with even greater commentary on it. Articles of this kind always leave a double impression. The title of the article “Why do our missiles fall and planes fail” gives a very clear hint that, they say, “then” everything turned out right away, but now it’s just horror, everything collapsed. Well, of course, everyone rushed to count the salaries of workers at all levels of "then" and the present. And the natural conclusion is that power is to blame !!!! Meanwhile, the author either ignorantly, but rather intentionally, is silent that in those far Soviet years with the creation of aviation and space-rocket technology, not everything was so smooth - missiles fell and often, but aircraft did not work right away, they also fell claimed the lives of many testers ... Such is the dialectic of creating such a technique. It is enough to read the history of the creation of missiles and aircraft, now this is in many ways already open information. So, not everything depends on the salaries of employees of defense industry enterprises, and they are not small now (I know this reliably). The problem lies in the “blessed” Yeltsin years, when there was a change of concepts and society was reformatted - a banal speculator became a businessman overnight, and all the leading scientific schools and the production base were simply destroyed (with the blessing of our Western “friends”). Now, their reconstruction requires tremendous efforts. The question is - will we pull in the face of such pressure on the country ???
  • alavrin 4 January 2020 13: 41 New
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    What new has the author said in this article? About salary and the crisis of education, about low-quality managerial personnel - it is said-negotiated. Meanwhile, things are still there. Why? Yes, because the same UrFU has a proud prefix - named after Yeltsin. A trifle, but a symbolic trifle, very symbolic.
  • TAMBU 4 January 2020 13: 54 New
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    Thank you - that's it.
  • tTshka 4 January 2020 13: 59 New
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    The author of such a dull scribbler ...
  • seacap 4 January 2020 14: 06 New
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    The wrong end came, in China, for example, back in the 70s a soldier received a daily ration of only a bowl of rice, a Turkish soldier was given only 3 rounds per year, the "hated and bloody" Stalin took over the country after 10 years of bloody wars and utter ruin, practically without a banking system and economy as such, with a totally illiterate population, crime that can not be counted, with complete blockade and total sanctions, this did not prevent it from becoming one of the leading economic powers in 15 years, having world-class scientists, the greatest a scientific and engineering school, the world's best educational system, for several years from former street children and criminals, who created the Motrosovs, Chkalovs, scientists, engineers and Heroes. The reason is different, the responsibility for the decisions made and their outcome, patriotism and the highest professionalism (the slogan “cadres decide everything” has always been relevant), and most importantly, the educational system and EDUCATION of the creative person, the creation and upbringing of a new community of people on historical values.
    And now the leadership is more like an occupation or colonial administration, interested and controlling exclusively the plunder of the country, making profit by its owners (not forgetting about themselves loved ones), and "cleansing" the territory, i.e. what was not possible in the 41st external forces, is successfully resolved by their own hands, mired in philistinism, without the honor and conscience of “advanced consumers”, everything is according to plan, according to the precepts of a dead but not stupid Pole who said that we would do everything ourselves Russian and at the expense of Russian. That is why these Gorbachevs and Yeltsins with their entourage, who put the mighty people on their knees, destroyed the power entrusted to them, which we created, defended themselves in battles, abundantly bleeding our land and gave them to the poor, should be condemned (albeit without real terms) and they must suffer punishment and contempt of the people (from the oath they all gave) in later history. The whole matter is not in mythical feudal lords and serfs (who, by the way, had more rights and protection than modern workers in private production), but the matter is in modern realities, betrayal, ambitions and philistine wretched morality of the current representatives of the so-called elites and managers who decided that loot will replace them with everything and everyone. So to me, in my opinion, the layman looks like this, I'm not an expert, I just have a good and high-quality Soviet education that allows me to add 2 + 2 and at least somehow think logically.
    1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 15: 37 New
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      For decades, the leadership of the USSR itself moved the country to the end of 1991 and subsequent years, like Gorbachev and Yeltsin — the products of the Soviet system, which educated them and advanced them on the career ladder. What to complain about.
      1. depressant 4 January 2020 20: 58 New
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        Vadim, darling, that's why we divide the history of the USSR into the Stalinist period, in which there was a powerful development, and the post-Stalinist one, when it matured and quietly, the betrayal of the governing caste was implicitly realized. Only a few saw this, but the bulk of the population did not. Politically, people were as naive as children. Those who saw it were deprived of political tools to influence the situation, and for good reason they feared for their own lives and the lives of loved ones. The only force connecting the people into a political, state whole was the activity of the CPSU, but there were no other forces outside it, the people turned out to be bound only by national customs, respectively, of the regions and the habit of peoples to live together. That's why we tolerate it now. Protest consolidation as a way of self-organization of the people in the absence of a leader is not our tradition. And potential leaders also come from this tradition, because the people and leaders at the present time will not find each other. Is it possible underground. Hence, such solitary impulses as the Lubyanka shooter. It is not for nothing that the question of the terrorist underground has been raised in the History section of the Military District. But for some reason I don’t want our people to go this way, because they are going nowhere.
        1. UserGun 4 January 2020 23: 21 New
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          Quote: depressant
          the Stalinist period, in which there was a powerful development


          This will not happen when people were crammed and lived constantly in fear. Will not be. There will be no more illiterate and dense peasants who could be treated like cattle. Forget about your Stalin as a nightmare. People are completely different now, whether you want it or not, and no one will go to a wretched camp, although with VDNKh splads.
  • intuzazist 4 January 2020 14: 20 New
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    As long as the football player in the country receives thousands of times more than a cool turner, nothing good will happen ......
    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 38 New
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      Something like that guys wink
    2. Vadim237 4 January 2020 23: 15 New
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      You do not forget that the footballer makes money from advertising sports brands and much more - and the turner does not engage in advertising and do not look at him in stadiums - if the turner wants to receive the same amount he will have to become a footballer.
  • Altona 4 January 2020 14: 26 New
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    Since I’ve been working in production for a long time, since 1992 I’ve been an engineer since 5, I can insert my 10 cents. As for the salaries of ordinary soldiers and leaders, everything is correct of course, and in the comments everything is written as in the article. But there is a small nuance that in the USSR they produced everything XNUMX times more and the quantity turned into quality. Production was primarily to provide their needs with their labor results, their products. That is, the probability was greater. And today the probability is extremely small that the launch will be successful, therefore rockets censer and rock prayers at missiles. It's not that complicated. And about salaries, everything is right, solid feudalism.
  • Kerr 4 January 2020 14: 33 New
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    I can’t speak for the entire defense industry, only for a number of aviation-related enterprises that I work with. And, basically, it is developing, at best, small-scale enterprises. As regards financing, as kilotons of rubles were pumped into the defense industry in Soviet times, so are they. BUT, most of this funding goes to overhead, support costs. In addition - fines for failure to meet the deadlines for the development and testing of new products. These fines can sometimes exceed the "cost" of the development work itself. I am not saying that disruptions are normal. But, in the current structure of some defense concerns, unfortunately, there is nowhere to go from them. This is the question of where the money goes.
    Further, staff and salaries. There were always not enough qualified employees - both now and then. But, in my opinion, getting a qualification in a healthy team after graduation is 2-3 years, not so much. But there is an important condition - the desire to work and develop. A lot of work, often delayed in the evenings, sometimes on weekends. Work should become an integral part of life (this mainly concerns engineers). Do not be afraid to take responsibility, learn something new. And here with such people, usually, problems - at best, 4-5 people per department in 30 rooms. Well, they don’t like to work with us, unfortunately. In terms of salaries - at least in Moscow - they are higher than the market average. And if the processing is normally paid, it is much higher. And yes, a skilled worker, especially a CNCUshnik, often earns more than engineers.
    Here, in the comments, they repeatedly asked to voice possible ways to rectify the situation. I will try:
    1) Campaigning and propaganda in enterprises and educational institutions. People need to know where they can come in handy, which will be the end result of their work. It is very important to know that in this multi-ton machine there is a screw that you personally designed / manufactured.
    2) At the level of enterprise management - additional incentives for “hard work” and processing (in extremely tight terms).
    3) At the level of enterprises and more extensive associations - first of all, reducing the time for ordering materials and components. The time for the development, manufacture and testing of new equipment directly depends on this.
    Fortunately, there seems to be progress in these areas. But small and not everywhere)
    I apologize for the extensive, but possibly one-sided comment. Accumulated)
  • Vadim237 4 January 2020 14: 35 New
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    "Nobody wants to work on CNC machines worth a million euros and still receive twenty thousand rubles." This is where so many operators pay such CNC machines?
    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 19: 01 New
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      This is where so many operators pay such CNC machines?


      Ekaterinburg am
      1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 23: 20 New
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        What kind of enterprise, what kind of machine is 65 million?
    2. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2020 19: 26 New
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      Quote: Vadim237
      "Nobody wants to work on CNC machines worth a million euros and still receive twenty thousand rubles." This is where so many operators pay such CNC machines?

      Counter-question, how much do you pay the operator? Only about 50-60 thousand do not stutter, a maximum of 40 and then if the worker lives at work.
      1. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2020 19: 47 New
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        Vadim, is that what you answered? So, 40 tons is true. If not you, then who was the lawyer, moreover anonymous?
        1. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2020 20: 04 New
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          Quote: Alf
          Vadim, is that what you answered? So, 40 tons is true. If not you, then who was the lawyer, moreover anonymous?

          So, an anonymous lizun appeared. Trying in vain, Vadim will not take you to work.
        2. Vadim237 4 January 2020 23: 18 New
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          I already wrote - look.
  • 7,62h54 4 January 2020 14: 39 New
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    A symbolic photo at the beginning of the article. Air and rocket industry as an elderly man with a sad look. Just one, no change. There is no one to transfer and develop.
  • Old26 4 January 2020 15: 26 New
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    Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
    Not true.
    A graduate of the Aviation Institute, having come to the plant as an aircraft designer less than 170 - 180 did not receive. Further more.

    Truth. An engineer received a salary of 70 rubles in the mid-late 120s. The fact that someone got into a serious plant with a good salary does not mean that everywhere it was
    For example, when I worked at the department, at first as a training master, and then as a senior technician (before receiving the “crusts”) I received 115 rubles. When I moved to KB, then the salaries there were slightly different. He received 135 (being a senior technician), which was more than that of an engineer after college. Plus, the bonus is either 38, or 40% (I don’t remember anymore) MONTHLY. In total, 189 rubles came out. And this is more than that of the same senior engineer at the department or at the factory, or even in the neighboring design bureau, and was approaching the salary of the senior teacher at the department (200 r). When I received my diploma, the salary became (first) EMNIP 150 rubles. and in total, along with the prize - 210. But, you must admit, this was not always the case
    1. Altona 4 January 2020 15: 39 New
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      Quote: Old26
      Truth. An engineer received a salary of 70 rubles in the mid-late 120s. The fact that someone got into a serious plant with a good salary does not mean that everywhere it was

      ---------------------
      A serious drawback of commenting on the situation at that time is to run into nominal salaries. In addition to salaries, there was the so-called social package — the rate of obtaining comfortable housing (that is, whether the plant was built at home or how quickly the line moved), the prestige of the enterprise, kindergarten and nursery, the presence of a good school nearby and the issuance of 13 salaries with grocery sets, the possibility of a shortage (and such was), getting a garden plot, vacation packages. In general, not a single salary.
  • Old26 4 January 2020 15: 50 New
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    Quote: Altona
    A serious drawback of commenting on the situation at that time is to run into nominal salaries. In addition to salaries, there was the so-called social package — the rate of obtaining comfortable housing (that is, whether the plant was built at home or how quickly the line moved), the prestige of the enterprise, kindergarten and nursery, the presence of a good school nearby and the issuance of 13 salaries with grocery sets, the possibility of a shortage (and such was), getting a garden plot, vacation packages. In general, not a single salary.

    Well, about the social package - also not everything is clear. I stood in line for almost 15 years, but I never received an apartment. It seems that the house should give up, and he was suddenly transferred to the category of "cooperative". Then he left for his hometown and the housing problem was already solved there.
    Prestige - yes. Work at a prestigious factory (KB) - it gave its advantages, and not only moral, but also material
    A kindergarten, a day nursery - to be honest, then this aspect was not interested, but most likely there was something like this, the women did not complain. 13 salaries were not, but there was a monthly bonus. There were no grocery sets, I worked at the Don in the late 70s, early 80s and there were problems with the products, but there were no sets and everyone got out as best he could. Getting a deficit - I have not heard in our KB. Garden plots? I don’t know, but vouchers - yes. But in any case, salary was at the forefront
    1. Karen 5 January 2020 23: 35 New
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      Quote: Old26
      I stood in line for almost 15 years, but I never received an apartment.

      That's exactly for this reason, in the 89/90th, my late sidekick, a mathematician, left the defense ... He became a bourgeois millionaire, but with nostalgia told me that he received about 1500 rubles on vacation under the USSR, and this in the absence of a scientist degree (he did not have free time to work for himself) ... was the designer of several topics known to our forum users ...
  • Cottodraton 4 January 2020 15: 58 New
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    On a modern CNC machine, NOBODY gets 20 thousand if he is not a student or does not sit dumbly idle. WELL NO SUCH ...
    40000+ with a minimum of 3 digits ...
    I personally asked people.
    Particularly cunning get under 70000.
    Some who fell into MSCs get even more ...
    Another thing is that the CNC operator is now a “thieves” profession and everyone is not allowed to go there. Here, unfortunately, petty nepotism prevails. But these are already questions to the factory princes with their bunch of "talented guys" from relatives / friends of endless
    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 18: 49 New
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      On a modern CNC machine, NOBODY gets 20 thousand if he is not a student or does not sit dumbly idle. WELL NO SUCH ...


      laughing lol
      I also thought so - I thought a qualified CNC-shnik - a sure piece of bread
      Crossed repeatedly - robots went into commerce, at the wrong percentage
      Why?
      Well, I learned salary in the last places of work
      something like 20-25 tyr
      Plus - a bunch of complaints about the quality and quantity ...
      And well, his nafIGGG
      That's so comrade.
      (ECB)
      1. Cottodraton 5 January 2020 21: 12 New
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        I speak for large factories that work in the field of aircraft rocket science. There are normal salaries on CNC ... I myself work in this area and I know more or less what is there and how ... another thing when
        Horseradish knows why people are going to work for a small-medium-sized huckster, supposedly "industrial production" ... we don’t have a normal culture of industrial production in medium and small businesses ... Huckster - loves profits over 30%, and best of all 70%, so that drive several times a year to Turkey, warm an ass on the beach ... There is no such margin in industrial production. There it is good if the profit is 5-7%. And this is with competent and endless monitoring of expenses and other audits ... Therefore, we have a whole little average business - it’s buy-sell.
        This is not about industry, for the most part.
        Therefore, it’s not worth considering such an employer. Well, if you do not want to receive 20-25 thousand a month, working as a CNC operator and listen to endless claims to everything that is possible.
  • Nait 4 January 2020 16: 28 New
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    Quote: Altona
    In general, not a single salary.

    To the point, there was (and is) such a Granit office - they worked in Priozersk (and not only),
    often "industrialists" (that was the name of the military) lived in Priozersk on debt - salary for
    double, housing provided,
    and after five years they gave the apartment already at the place of residence (Alma-Ata, ... ...).
    Now I don’t know how it is, but somehow I watched the blog, a man stopped by in Priozersk - in general, it’s like Chernobyl, but very cozy town.
    1. brat07 8 January 2020 03: 41 New
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      Quote: Nait
      Quote: Altona
      In general, not a single salary.

      To the point, there was (and is) such a Granit office - they worked in Priozersk (and not only),
      often "industrialists" (that was the name of the military) lived in Priozersk on debt - salary for
      double, housing provided,
      and after five years they gave the apartment already at the place of residence (Alma-Ata, ... ...).
      Now I don’t know how it is, but somehow I watched the blog, a man stopped by in Priozersk - in general, it’s like Chernobyl, but very cozy town.

      Accidentally not Priozersk-4?
      But in Soviet times it was "closed."
      And by the way, yes, the supply there was even better than Moscow.
  • sergan m 4 January 2020 17: 01 New
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    I have not read such nonsense for a long time.
    I served in Baikonur since 1986. Long served.
    So, regarding the fall of the missiles - now there are fewer drops in percentage terms.
    And satellites that have not entered orbit less. Because they completed the upper stages, due to which the satellites most often did not reach the desired orbit. And there are less satellites with which there is no connection. And the fact that the "Bulava" flew the last 10 starts in a row without any problems, the "author" for some reason forgets. And 10 accident-free starts in a row is the adoption of the complex.
    Yes, and about salaries. For those people who made carriers and spacecraft in Soviet times, the salaries were no different from the neighboring factory, which produced drushlags and graters for vegetables. As a green lieutenant, in 1986, my salary was almost two times higher than that of the leading designer of NPO Energia. Therefore, they strove to go on a business trip to Baikonur, due to travel and daily subsistence allowance the budget increased significantly.
    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 18: 45 New
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      . For those people who made carriers and spacecraft in Soviet times, the salaries were no different from the neighboring factory, which produced drushlags and graters for vegetables.


      You tell interesting things ...
      He talked a lot in the 90s with skilled machinists from the defense industry, who in Soviet times received 300-400 re
      (Sverdlovsk)
      + Apartment from the factory (3-4 years)
      Now, of course, everything is much richer, and what you want is the market! good
  • oligofren32 4 January 2020 17: 19 New
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    I’ll add: I often meet and often read about the son of Rogozin or Patrushev, or someone else. I am not a child and of course I understand what the purpose of all this writing is. I have a different question for these scribblers, if instead of these little sons they suddenly appoint a person who has gone from a culman to the head of a design bureau, all these scribes and mothers of an analyst will immediately jump out of their managerial chairs and posts and move to aircraft, machine-building plants or find an excuse there not to go for the reason that Putin did not bother to build a factory near his house. All these scribblers are just infantile 30-year-old youngsters who will not work in any factories, alas
  • 75 Sergey 4 January 2020 17: 21 New
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    It’s not that they can’t, but that there is already no one to make planes and crab, turners and milling Dimon wants to lime, another factory for the production of CNC machines in Savelovo, Tyersky region bent.
    1. Vadim237 4 January 2020 23: 26 New
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      No one to do - and they are made by ships and planes and missiles and tanks and helicopters and nuclear reactors.
  • fiberboard 4 January 2020 17: 43 New
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    Good, sensible article. I think the same. Here is my choice: go to work as a specialist in an agricultural company or a janitor. The salary is the same 18000. But you have a responsibility in the company: 400 cows, horses, several thousand sheep, pigs. You must answer for all this. And the janitor: a broom and a shovel. And a lot of free time. And farms do not have to rush about.
    1. Olkass 4 January 2020 17: 57 New
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      Quote: fiberboard
      Good, sensible article. I think the same. Here is my choice: go to work as a specialist in an agricultural company or a janitor. The salary is the same 18000. But you have a responsibility in the company: 400 cows, horses, several thousand sheep, pigs. You must answer for all this. And the janitor: a broom and a shovel. And a lot of free time. And farms do not have to rush about.

      God forbid, have a specialist in any position with such knowledge of the Russian language! Chur me!
  • Olkass 4 January 2020 17: 54 New
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    Well, you all attacked a flea mill, hipster, and all kinds of miscarriages from structures like the HSE (or, in common people, the HSE) !?
    Just look, they all have beautiful people in their family! Really right?
    Well, the fact that they and their environment do with their hands .....
    Hence the articles are infamous.
  • Po-tzan 4 January 2020 18: 31 New
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    Why do our rockets fall, but the planes fail


    therefore

    1. Olezhek 4 January 2020 18: 41 New
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      therefore


      Wicked you, brought down all dreams of cosmic domination ... crying
  • wooja 4 January 2020 19: 15 New
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    the author is right ...., yes you can call it denigrating, but in general the author’s thought is clear, the problem of economics is secondary, because there is no politics. 30 years after the fall of the USSR ... and very modest results. Is there a solution? Of course there is ...., but it is not necessary, because the Kremlin is happy with the current state of affairs and there is no point in changing something.
    1. Kunica 4 January 2020 20: 11 New
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      I would say not very modest, but negative.
  • Falcon5555 4 January 2020 19: 30 New
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    Meanwhile, the systemic crisis of the Russian “aerospace” is a sure sign of a mismatch between the production relations necessary for high technology and the existing social system.
    - true thought.
  • Fedya Fortochkin 4 January 2020 20: 04 New
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    The chef has lost ....! There are no 5/8 dice in the country, but they launch a tram.
  • Kunica 4 January 2020 20: 09 New
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    I understood from the article that in the USSR it was good, because it was bad. And somehow this article does not fit with the president’s statements that they didn’t produce anything in the Union, but that they didn’t need anyone.
    1. wooja 4 January 2020 21: 20 New
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      The USSR was not an ideal ... but there was something right in it, the president says a lot about his position and political impotence ... because in the conditions of Russia even this is irreproducible .., A post-perestroika country looks like a potato --- all the best - in the ground ...
  • Olezhek 4 January 2020 20: 43 New
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    As it is



    It should be



    lol
    1. EvilLion 9 January 2020 08: 21 New
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      To everyone? And labor productivity is such that this money will be where to spend?
  • boriz 4 January 2020 20: 53 New
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    "Well, under the USSR, the shop manager could not even get 5-8 times more than a good worker, he could not!"
    The head of the workshop, received about the same as a good worker, and all the next leaders of the worker
    and the developers of the worker's subject of labor received much less of it. This is one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR. The people reacted to this fact with indifference, thought that something would change for the better, it would be like under capitalism. But that did not happen.
  • Victorio 4 January 2020 20: 55 New
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    Thus, the salary of such citizens should be much higher than the "average for the hospital", and regardless of the availability of orders
    ===
    not everything is measured by money. there is still responsibility, discipline. went to such a salary, is obliged to fulfill his duties.
  • nekromonger 4 January 2020 21: 07 New
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    I’ll add simply the transcendental nepotism, in which close ones go up the career ladder, and people with brains, having realized the futility of their efforts, go to other competencies or simply tossed to other countries, as for example. a friend of mine dumped a year ago in Finnish and is not going to come back now. there, according to him, in addition to a decent zp very worthy and respectful attitude to their employees, regardless of their nationality, etc. specialization - technologist-programmer, writes programs on machines such as DMG, HERMLE, CHIRON and the like.
  • nov_tech.vrn 4 January 2020 21: 14 New
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    there is such a salad vinaigrette, for some it turns out great. And they try to ask questions like the right ones and seem like reasonable examples, but the goal was set different, not to figure it out, but to stir it up, it hinders everything in the salad.
  • flicker 4 January 2020 21: 18 New
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    ... so beloved by our patriots of Crimea.

    Is it bad to be a patriot?
    And the author of Crimea does not like, does not consider ours?
    Well done, it might make sense to work in a kibbutzi, earn shekels, feel the salt of life, talk with like-minded people bully
    1. kiril1246 5 January 2020 22: 04 New
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      Quote: flicker
      work in kibbutzi, shekels earn

      The root mistake. Kibbutzniks have no salary.
  • Uran53 4 January 2020 21: 22 New
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    If we consider Russia as a colony of the West, then the entire system, built recently, looks quite natural. Not only oil and gas are pumped out of the country, but also intellectual resources. First, competitors are removed, and in 2, they are promoting their science and technology. And "our" government helps them in this. Fulfill the assignment of their owners. And the costs of science education and medicine confirm this once again.
  • Kibl 4 January 2020 21: 46 New
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    Wow wrote, wow sold, but it’s breathtaking! Poured so much, poured so much! In a word, empty-handed, one run of any crap-dope. He’d dump somewhere if it’s so bad for him in Russia
  • Cossack 471 4 January 2020 22: 34 New
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    The article is absolutely correct Pay only to your loved ones! And the rest is enough for 20 a month. On January 000, the guarantor will tell how he is concerned about the low incomes of the population. But did he raise VAT to 15%? Is it not with his knowledge that Plato and chain stores have been delivered. entangled the whole country? And how do you like to raise the retirement age first under the pretext that there is no one to work and immediately begin to discuss the introduction of a 20-day working week? It's time to fix something at the conservatory .....
    1. Alf
      Alf 5 January 2020 17: 21 New
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      Quote: Cossack 471
      But did he raise VAT to 20%? Is it not with his knowledge that Plato and chain stores have been delivered. entangled the whole country? And how do you like to raise the retirement age first under the pretext that there is no one to work and immediately begin to discuss the introduction of a 4-day working week?

      It's not him.
      His full-time launder Boris55 will come running (by the way, something hasn’t been visible for a long time, a new training manual is visible) and will explain to you that this is a bad thought and the enemy prime minister adopted such laws, but he couldn’t do anything, he had to sign it. But he is terribly ashamed, like Alchen in the Golden Calf.
  • GenNick 4 January 2020 23: 13 New
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    Quote: Olezhek
    They say that to become a good turner you need to work 15-20 years


    Well damn it - you are somehow overkill ...
    But five years is necessary (after vocational school-technical school)

    In five years, a turner will never become a Turner.
    Personally, I needed 17-18 !!!! years to get 6th grade ...
  • Levius RU 4 January 2020 23: 33 New
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    author. With article verbal diarrhea. Without meaning. Without a goal. Just throw guano on the fan. There are specific suggestions. Consider Applied. In the meantime, the release of graphomaniac.
    1. divanka2020 5 January 2020 00: 27 New
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      Levius RU, well, it seems, but they all somehow forget one nuance, but do we really need these missiles of the Soviet super era in feudal new Russia? maybe we’ll start medicine first so that we don’t treat 1 in 100 with SMS in a foreign country, the rest die, suffer,
      and the military-industrial complex, supposedly, well, well, it should correspond in terms of spending and development to more important areas, or even less, adequately
      Look, Europeans who are ever-rotting, you won’t be delayed even in the NATO budget, but America is covering up, rummaging around)
      1. Levius RU 6 January 2020 08: 05 New
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        Divanko Type Europeans, they type slaves on a leash. Until now, the occupied and Pay tribute regularly. If we are without a big club, we will become real slaves. You do not forget in English our natsiy u r x is called slave and the slave is written slav. And with them we Russians are considered slaves who have escaped from the master. So, when will the occupiers come, we will not live like Bulgarians or Romanians
  • starik80 5 January 2020 00: 50 New
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    It is not a matter of science to engineers and calculations, everything is there, everything is simpler, there are various means of automating auto-cads, etc. what the department did before is done by one person. The output calculation and the CNC machine. In Izhevsk, as AK is done, there is no army of locksmiths, this is the last century. Whoever writes to us is not enough locksmiths, look back at you in the 21st century.
    The thing is different, there is the concept of zero responsibility, this is when they do not want to pay for responsible work. Why is it worth paying people to build a plane? We will pay the average for the area where the plant is located. As a result, the employee has no responsibility: "but they will dismiss me for the joint and find the same job or better." No need to look for depth and width; it isn’t all trivial there.
    1. Levius RU 6 January 2020 08: 26 New
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      Assembly aircraft say. Oak produces 10 freight units per year. And 33.000 people work there. In the states, Boeing produces the same amount of 200 per year.
  • KAA_57 5 January 2020 00: 53 New
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    But doesn't it seem to you that your analysis of the situation is more based on emotions, and not on dispassionate statistics?
    Space. In the USSR - continuous successes, now - continuous failures. Right? And what was the percentage of successful launches of a heavy lunar rocket in the USSR? And what is the fate of the entire program to launch a man to the moon? Very expensive, by the way.
    Aviation. IL-18 is the most reliable aircraft in the world. Is that also true? It is made - 800. Irrevocable losses in catastrophes and air accidents - 100.
    And so in everything. You get to the bare statistics, and suddenly it turns out that everything is a bit different than we used to think. To a large extent thanks to the media. Then and now.
    Although I am ready to agree with today's clear excesses in the field of priorities of effective management over the actual level of design developments.
    But he would not idealize the level of development of that time.
  • Reklastik 5 January 2020 01: 29 New
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    there were strong technical universities (world-class and above!)
    - Enough already. Above the world. Galactic wink
  • arlekin 5 January 2020 03: 46 New
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    Periodically, articles appear in the VO about how a country bought non-Russian equipment or weapons, and there are a lot of comments to it, "Why not with us, it's better and cheaper." And for some reason, none of the writers thinks how it is “better and cheaper”, why in the store or on the market this almost never happens.
    Cheaper - this means cheap labor, the absence of a social package and social infrastructure, respectively, and a competitive advantage.
  • Molot1979 5 January 2020 03: 57 New
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    I understand that the Boeing has no problems? Can planes be built there? Private spacecraft do not explode at launch? Has the US already acquired its space engines? Only with us everything is, as usual, bad and will it get worse? Another stupid cry of Yaroslavna. Boring.
  • Klingon 5 January 2020 04: 06 New
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    Quote: Arkon
    Quote: eklmn
    Indeed, on Russian sites complaints flow - medicine, medicine, housing, prices, salaries ... - the economy is sick!

    Quote: eklmn
    But young people, aged 18-24, they are also patriots, but for some reason 40% -50% want to leave the country.


    You are operating with false data. And from them you make false conclusions. Let's start with the data. Here you are writing about abstract “Russian sites” on which “complaints flow” and from this you conclude that the economy is sick. Does not the logical connection itself seem strange to you: complaints on the site are the diagnosis of the economy? because according to this logic, I can easily find the same sites in any country on the planet Earth and draw a similar conclusion. So? This is actually called manipulation.
    Well, about 40-50%, just provide a data source and we will discuss it.

    what do you show? How much does a qualified nurse in Germany get? no? tell me? at least 2500 € this is after you have deducted all taxes. at the same time receives once a year also the 13th salary. On weekends, a 15% surcharge on holidays 25. On a night shift, a 35% surcharge (not taxable). How much does her colleague in the Russian Federation receive? I hope you are in the know. 3-7 thousand rubles ... if it’s lucky, maybe 15.
    + for a person do not consider. Isn’t that why our nurses are so angry? I’ve just given you one example. And with us everywhere. From school to space! and only D'Effective Managers, bureaucrats and Gazprom thieves live. say what is wrong?
  • boo
    boo 5 January 2020 04: 19 New
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    We all write about IL-112, aerospace, and we ourselves do not believe in it. The Russian Federation is a country that is dying technologically, you can turn away as much as you like, but sooner or later it will have to be recognized. You can't build skyscrapers from straw. Ki sharpened solely for theft and cutting will not make scientific discoveries and technological breakthroughs or contribute to this.
  • aiden 5 January 2020 05: 22 New
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    That is, in other words, we need specialists who need to be trained from school and give them a good salary. This will stop rockets and planes from falling. If we are not smart specialists, then due to what we have the best air defense systems in the world, the electronic warfare systems are the best in the world, military aircraft and helicopters are some of the best in the world, why Russia is a leader in the development of neural networks and AI. Aircraft and rockets will not fall only if they are not. They fell in the USSR, and fall in the USA. Although the necessary conditions (according to the author of the article) are respected. About the example of the author’s French friend, how much has France set up for space? Besides joint programs and low-cost space satellites? There, too, all conditions according to the article are respected. Salary high, the boss receives less, nowhere to go. The author, you walk around any military exhibitions, and look at the approximate age of the designers, and what they create. And not a big moment. It all depends on the owner. There are executives who want to get profit as quickly and as possible, to the detriment of quality, for example, they will take a leftist somewhere, a bolt will be screwed down somewhere (I will not give an example, one defense enterprise, how the defense is carried out there, and is purchased to increase profit Chinese slag in the form of components), they will collect orders, but they cannot fulfill them. And there are leaders who value reputation, they will receive less profit, but will do it on time and with high quality.
    1. maidan.izrailovich 5 January 2020 06: 31 New
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      aiden
      Aircraft and rockets will not fall only if they are not. They fell in the USSR, and fall in the USA.

      You are absolutely right. Both in particular and in general.
      What is good and what is bad?
      Everything is relative.
      You can not consider a phenomenon, event or object in isolation from the surrounding reality.
      The author violates this rule. Announcing that everything is bad in Russian aviation and space.
  • Lbaralgeen 5 January 2020 07: 01 New
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    In 2019, the Russian Federation did not fall, and the United States is full of accidents. And how did salaries help them?
  • Oleg133 5 January 2020 07: 55 New
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    Responsibility in the Russian Federation is extremism. People who have implemented this idea are sitting.
  • Jarserge 5 January 2020 10: 24 New
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    Honestly, I don’t know who the author of this “everything is lost” Oleg Egorov, and I don’t really want to find out after this quality of work. But it seems to me this is a typical reporter with claims to a journalist. A reporter is a person transmitting information, and a journalist is a person collecting information and processing it. It should be. But more often than not a journalist and a reporter is a person who has received information, does not understand anything in it, but who can speak (write) fluently and at the same time push the ORDER ordered to him. Magazines describing for example the Stalin era for some reason come up to it with the standards of the 70-80s. Years of power of the USSR, somehow forgetting that only thanks to the courage and patriotism of the people, the Stalinist managers made an unprecedented breakthrough in industrialization (then the same planes fell and the ships sank). I will emphasize after the troubled time of two revolutions (one of which is liberal) and the devastation of the civil war. What do we have now? But we do not have a planned socialist system, but state capitalism, the laws of development of which are completely different, if any. We have the Gorbachev-Yeltsin LIBERAL devastation aggravated by foreign "help." It was then that we lost the most valuable thing - personnel, both engineering and skilled workers. Now the recovery process is underway and at the same time the country still manages to go comparatively on a level with world trends. The author, on the other hand, works on the principle - “everything is gone” and “my job is to crow and then at least do not dawn.” In this "crowing" miserable, unprofessional, clearly custom
  • Shaman 5 January 2020 11: 10 New
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    Another opus from the series "Our Tanya cries loudly" how they are doing well and we have ... pa. Well, don’t you live in this backward and terrible rush, bring us to a bright and happy foreign country ... if all these liberals cry.
  • MrFox 5 January 2020 11: 37 New
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    The correct article, I see confusion and vacillations in the comments, few people know the problem from outside.

    From personal experience.

    The director of one plant gets in touch, they decided to take up the modernization of radio-electronic equipment, which let's say the military has been using since time immemorial. The military pays well for the first model, for 200 million, and the party promises to be good. The cost of roughly 100 million, in total a hundred net income. Not bad?

    Now about the negotiations. In order for me to leave my business and start its project, I need at least 300 thousand a month. The director squeals that his turner receives 14 tyr and this is considered a good salary. Here are the answers to all your questions. There is money, but where does it go?

    There are no specialists, he himself knows this. Now there are a dozen people who understand what he wants to do - a dozen per country and they are already close to 60. He knows, but the toad is strangling - like that, to pay some engineers.

    In order to answer the local question “what do you propose” I answer: close the Ministry of Industry and Trade, pay military money directly to collectives — small businesses. How to do it - learn from the experience of the United States:

    SBIR / STTR Program for US Small Business Engagement

    It is fundamentally important that small businesses are not required to immediately produce finished products and products that they must develop at their own expense, but help to create them. Help with money and more. To do this, the whole process is divided into three stages:

    Stage I is called “project feasibility” and includes only scientific, technical and commercial prerequisites for the proposed ideas and solutions - something like research work. This stage is paid in a relatively small amount. At stage II, money is allocated for the development of a prototype, which should confirm the achievement of the goals of stage I - this is more in line with our guest stage of the draft technical design. At stage III, the project is commercialized - attracting investors to bring the project to the production and delivery stage. Obviously, it is much easier to find an investor if you have a working prototype.

    Program Objectives:

    stimulate technological initiatives in the private sector (small business is not only the sale of mobile phones and dog grooming, but also the modern level of technology - the American state takes care of this!);
    use the opportunities of small business for the development of the federal government;
    encourage the participation of companies that are economically disadvantaged (well, they need help at the state expense);
    to ensure cooperation between small business and research institutes (which is very important, since the latter have a large body of information on promising areas, already achieved results and the most urgent tasks);
    bridge the gap between research and market penetration (it sounds purely American).
    I emphasize the peculiarity of each of the two programs:

    SBIR
    On their own, a volume of 2/3 of the entire development at stage I and 1/2 at the second should be completed.

    STTR
    The work is carried out in partnership with research institutes in the proportion of:

    40% gets a small business;
    30% of the work is carried out by research institutes.

    Learn guys. Let the money go to the performers
  • Grechishnikov Leonid 5 January 2020 11: 58 New
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    Why in Russia (the country richest in natural and territorial resources in the world) is the mass poverty of members of society? Why is Russia in first place in the world in terms of stratification of society by income? Why is the state, power in Russia not properly controlled? Etc.

    On this subject, my open letter dated 11.11.19/1/XNUMX (available on the Internet). It is entitled: “DOES THE STATE ORGANIZE THE LIFE OF THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY?”. His very first addressee is CITIZENS (see page XNUMX of the letter). Including - and fellow citizens from the media. In this letter - and specific requests to fellow citizens. What should, I think, be done to improve the situation in Russia.

    Adequate social activity of members of society is, I am convinced, it is NECESSARY that life in the country becomes better. Nikolai Alekseevich Nekrasov: “A son cannot look calmly / On his mother’s grief, / There will be no worthy citizen / He is cold in his heart,”.