In the face of "Russian aggression": the United States returns Avenger air defense systems

The US Army is returning its Avenger anti-aircraft missile systems to the Humvee multipurpose wheeled vehicles.

The return of these air defense systems is "in the face of Russian aggression," writes Defense Blog.

Last year, the American army restored the active SHORAD battalion in Germany. The 5th battalion of the 4th artillery air defense regiment (5-4 ADA) was armed with the Avenger systems mounted on the Humvee with a modified top and a pair of Stinger missiles. Such a combined weapons system, the publication indicates, provides mobile protection against missiles, low-flying aircraft and, more recently, unmanned aerial vehicles.

Avenger anti-aircraft missile systems were first used by the US Army back in 1990. In recent years, most of them have been transferred to the National Guard or simply stored in army warehouses.

In 2018, 72 Avengers were taken out of Pennsylvania. Half of the air defense systems are now at the 5-4 ADA, and the remaining air defense systems are ready-made delivered to a warehouse in Germany.

"Avengers" returned to the army in accordance with the initiative of the chief of staff of the army. According to the military, this decision aims to bridge the gap in short-range air defense capabilities, from which the United States and its NATO allies in Europe "suffer". The army received a "warning signal" while observing the conflict in Ukraine, the publication points out.

In addition, it is reported that the American army thereby lays the foundation for large-scale military operations with an enemy like Russia.

In addition to improving logistics systems and strengthening the military power of armored forces, the U.S. Army currently supports short-range air defense units known as SHORAD battalions. Since the army is developing its potential for conducting large-scale military operations against someone similar to Russia, then SHORAD units are again in demand, analysts conclude.

Recall that SHORAD stands for Short Range Air Defense. These are short-range air defense battalions whose tasks are to protect against low-altitude air threats. First of all, it is defense against helicopters and short-range airplanes and short-range flights - for example, from the Su-25.

Comments

[svp67]

Avenger anti-aircraft missile systems

why not an "anti-aircraft missile-gun complex", in the same place like under the missile container a cannon barrel sticks out?
And I like this concept of building an air defense missile system more than that of our "Gibka", it is strange why they did not take it as a model, apparently due to the absence of a "pickup" based on the "Tiger"

[Gray brother]

Quote: svp67

the gun barrel sticks out?

Machine gun 12.7, personifying the general misery

[loki565]

apparently due to the lack of a "pickup" based on the "Tiger"

[svp67]

Well, this is the "civilian" version, but it is very different from the "army", I have not seen such in the troops.

[Piramidon]

Quote: svp67

Well, this is the "civilian" version, but it is very different from the "army", in the troops I have not seen such.

Have you toured all the troops?

[svp67]

Quote: Piramidon

Have you toured all the troops?

If there is, then please photos, the floor of the machine is no longer secret.
In our air force pickups are only now beginning to enter and then in the Airborne Forces and these are not "Tigers"

[Thunderbolt]

There is a machine gun / 12,7 /.

[Jack O'Neill]

why not an "anti-aircraft missile-gun complex", in the same place like under the missile container a cannon barrel sticks out?

This is not a gun, but a machine gun (12,7x99). For amers, this is - Small caliber ammunition (SCA). The guns they have come with 20 mm, i.e. Medium Caliber Ammunition (MCAs).
Keep pdf booklet:
https://www.nammo.com/globalassets/pdfs/ammobook/nammo_ammo_handbook_aw_screen_updated.pdf

[svp67]

Quote: Jack O'Neill

Keep pdf booklet:

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Quote: Gray Brother

Machine gun 12.7, personifying the general misery

Quote: Thunderbolt

There is a machine gun / 12,7 /.

Quote: Jack O'Neill

This is not a gun, but a machine gun (12,7x99)

And yet, placement in the back of a pickup truck, rather than on the roof of a car, entails a lower metacentre, which means more stability, and look how many missiles are sticking out of the container. They have more missiles in one container than we have at Gibka

[sabakina]

Sergey, what's stuck with these missiles? Well, an ordinary container for four missiles. And what?

[svp67]

Quote: sabakina

Well, an ordinary container for four missiles. And what?

Two containers of four missiles, that's eight missiles. And we have only two at Gibka ...

[sabakina]

Sergei, I remember an episode of the film "General Designer", where M.Koshkin explains to the military representative. why can we increase the caliber of the gun on the tank, but there is no Fritz ... Series 2. if you search.

[svp67]

Quote: sabakina

why can we increase the caliber of guns on the tank, but there’s no fritz ... 2 episode. if you will search.

Place our designer complex in the back of a pickup truck, and not on the roof, and more missiles could be installed without the threat of tipping over and swaying such a machine while driving.

[sabakina]

Sergey, I agree. I hope that our designers are modeling on the cardboard of the Roshen factory ...

[svp67]

Quote: sabakina

I hope that our designers are modeling on the cardboard of the Roshen factory ...

No, of course, I don’t even see Roshen chocolates and I’m GOOD. It just wasn't there, two years ago we had pick-up trucks in the army, but now they have gone, I think that the complexes will appear.
By the way, at the expense of machine guns, the same thing is not a useless thing in terms of fighting light UAVs

[NKT]

Two containers of four missiles, that's eight missiles. And we have only two at Gibka ...

Sponge has 4 missiles and four more in the cockpit.

[svp67]

Quote: NKT

Sponge has 4 missiles and four more in the cockpit.

Sory, really 4 rockets,

but still, they are half as much as the enemy. A cabin supply, this is such a thing ... It is not yet known how many there are in an American car, in reserve

[NKT]

We still have a Pine, and there are 12 of them. You do not know what organizational structure will be (planned) for Bending?

[svp67]

Quote: NKT

You do not know what organizational structure will be (planned) for Bending?

Well, judging by the old organizational staff, the platoon is at least 4 cars, 12 - a battery. And it is unlikely to be something higher. Are the divisions likely to be mixed? These vehicles will most likely be used to replace BMPs or armored personnel carriers from "people's avengers", anti-aircraft soldiers with MANPADS.

[Center]

[/ Center]
A very good replacement, allowing the use of MANPADS with both a car and a shoulder.

[30hgsa]

On flexible 4 rockets. Where you saw 2, I’m xs, it’s enough for two salvo launches, and no one else will do it, each rocket at the same time is comparable to the base chassis and increases the price, while it is flexible for export

[svp67]

Quote: 30hgsa

On flexible 4 rockets. Where did you see there 2

Before that I saw a fragment of tests. But now I’ve reviewed other shootings and say that I was wrong, in part, she may have eight missiles on guides. But at the expense of sustainability was right. In motion, the unit can operate at speeds of up to 30 kilometers per hour ... It will still work to cover the columns with caterpillar equipment, but it may not be enough to accompany the columns on the wheeled

[30hgsa]

Just hung 2 tubes. The bending in this regard is made simpler than the avanger, it does not have guide blocks, but simply REMW with a suspension of standard tubes from the Needle / Willow. As a result, the complex will be much cheaper and easier to manufacture. As for high location and stability ... maybe. But pickup trucks at tiger bases are not mass produced - they are not in demand.
PS: to cover troops on the march hardly makes sense only with the help of MANPADS. For this there is Pine and Derivation-Air Defense. It is flexible rather for export, IMHO, or for solving limited tasks at the maximum battalion level.

[svp67]

Quote: 30hgsa

PS: to cover troops on the march hardly makes sense only with the help of MANPADS.

Yes, unfortunately, the anti-aircraft battalion does not have a lot of forces and is not enough for all of them, therefore they will, they will be allocated to accompany the columns, including in addition to the "Pines" and "Derivation"

[Jack O'Neill]

Nevertheless, placement in the back of a pickup truck, and not on the roof of a car, entails a lower metacentre, which means greater stability

Yes.

[Boris Chernikov]

because they have Avengers this is the main unit, and with us Bending is for MANPADS machines .. and the main protection function on Shilki, Tunguska, Osa, Arrows and soon on Pines) is assigned

[venik]

Quote: svp67

why not an "anti-aircraft missile-gun complex", in the same place like under the missile container a cannon barrel sticks out?

=========
Sorry, but your comment resembles an "ancient bawdy" anecdote:
Exams at the medical institute .... A student (not an excellent student) comes across the question of the male genital organ .....
- Professor: Well, what can you say?
- Student: The male genital organ is longer than 20 centimeters, and inside it there is bone.....
- Professor: Well, about "more than 20 cm" - it's just for you lucky.... And about the "bone" - it's easy for you It seemed!!!
-----
The same is about the "gun" - it's easy for you It seemed!!!
==========

Quote: svp67

And I like this concept of building an air defense missile system more than that of our "Gibka", it's strange why they didn't take it as a model, apparently due to the lack of a "pickup" based on the "Tiger"

------
Apparently because "Gibka-Tiger" has a slightly different concept: -
- "Avenger" has ammunition - ONLY THAT is installed in the TPU (ie 8 "stingers") .... At "Gibka-S" - part of the ammunition is located INSIDE the armored hull;
- Crew of "Avenger" - 2 people (driver and operator-gunner). The crew of "GTBKI-S" - 4 people (commander, driver, 2 operator-gunner), which ensures the possibility of combat duty for a sufficiently long time ("Avenger" is deprived of this opportunity, if you do not add to it additional "Hammer" with spare ammunition and the possibility of resting a free operator in the car);
- "Gibka-S" - integrated with the command post and radar "Garmon", as well as the ability to interact with command posts of higher echelon. "Avenger" has NO this opportunity !!! (if the control center is transmitted, then only by radio);
- "Gibka-S" can use in addition to MANPADS and ATGM. "Avenger" - NO!
-----
PS If I had a chance to choose - WHAT to serve: on "Avenger" or on "Gibka-S" - without a doubt I would choose "Flexible"
PPS: And you, dear Sergey, and Indeed Do you think that developing a "pickup" based on the "Tiger" is so difficult ??? This, excuse me, is a "minor question" !!! I think - in a month (well, at least - for two) they would have done it! Simply - NO NECESSITY !!!

[svp67]

Quote: venik

And you, dear Sergey, really think that to develop a "pickup"

No, and in the civilian version it is, but does not enter the army.

Quote: venik

Simple - NO NEED !!!

Sorry, but there is. Really is. And the wars in the Middle East, in Africa and in the same Ukraine have already proved this

[Observer2014]

In the face of "Russian aggression": the United States returns Avenger air defense systems

I'm a little versed in these military topics Masha's mane And I say yes. Let them spend. It may be easier for us when or where it will be

[Siberia 75]

Quote: Observer2014

Let them spend it. Maybe it’s easier for us when or where it will be

Stingers on wheels. If we take into account that the striped ones have more than half a thousand on conservation, then our helicopter pilots can make nerves.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Siberia 75

can the nerves of our helicopter pilots do

Unless they will arm some regular "freedom fighters" with them. In the meantime, these air defense systems, they only nightmare Germany, with their presence.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: orionvitt

Quote: Siberia 75

can the nerves of our helicopter pilots do

Unless they will arm some regular "freedom fighters" with them. In the meantime, these air defense systems, they only nightmare Germany, with their presence.

That is why they remembered about them that the transfer of these "chariots" makes it possible to increase their presence in Europe - crews + technicians + other accompanying fraternity, while at the same time suggesting to European citizens "frightened by the Russian threat" that they think about mattresses how to "protect" them. But that's why a good half of the Germans think that the United States is a much greater threat to them than Russia.

[rocket757]

How did it seem to me that their concept rested on determining that their aviation would win all at once?
Or did it seem to me?

[knn54]

Victor, it didn't seem. The emphasis was on fighter aircraft until UAVs appeared.
Today, except for "Stingers", there is nothing in the air defense of the ground forces

[rocket757]

How will the Stinger fight the drones ??? Does it have thermal homing? Will the iron be attached to the drone sho, will it be heated?
It’s not beating .... maybe the rockets will be new?

[dzvero]

How will the Stinger fight the drones ??? Does it have thermal homing? Will the iron be attached to the drone sho, will it be heated?

So, first the drone is heated with a laser, and then the stinger is launched ...

[Cat]

How will the Stinger fight the drones ??? Does it have thermal homing?

The Stinger is quite capable of capturing a relatively large UAV such as Bayraktar or Akinji, but no one will shoot them at quadcopters (probably ). The problem (for the troops covered by air defense) is that the ATGMs with which the UAVs and the Stinger are armed have almost the same launch range - so who will find whom first. Besides, "Stinger" is useless against relatively high-altitude (more than 4 km) targets.

[rocket757]

Quote: Gato

Capture a relatively large UAV such as "Bayraktar" or "Akinji" "Stinger" is quite capable,

That's right, the stinger is limited in use. This threat will be bypassed if wisely.

[Cat]

their concept rested on determining that their aviation would all win

I was also surprised. Their concept generally did not provide for any ground operation without complete air superiority. And then "Avengers" ... Just look, the Germans will also get bottles from the bins

[rocket757]

Quote: Gato

Also surprised.

The concept of minke whales is a lasting advantage over the enemy, especially in the air.
A low-level military air defense, this is the last line of defense, when their Air Force are ineffective, that is, they lost!
It’s not like the Yankees. A defeatist attitude, if you look closely ... what all their allies want to point out directly ... if they can understand it.

[Amateur]

helicopters and airplanes middle air based и low range flight

It seems that in VO began to forget the Russian language.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Amateur

short-range airborne and low flight range

I think to open fire on them in the near future. Special combat units, clear the stump.

[Siberia 75]

Quote: Gray Brother

I think to open fire on them in the near future. Special combat units, clear the stump.

When will you bullet, be careful. And then start the third world.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Siberia 75

And then the third world will begin

The captain says that we are a third world country, we only let gas go up and are therefore not dangerous, therefore they will not beat us at all, but they will feed on others - Iran and North Korea, yes.
Moreover, missile defense is only against them, yes.

[cost]

Gray brother (Sergey): I think to open fire on them in the near future. Special combat units, ash stump.

From "Ash" wherever it went, but from "Stump" to hit the Avenger "is impractical. Like a sledgehammer on cockroaches)))

[Thrifty]

They had to do this in the same Saudi Arabia, in order to cover up their patriots there!

[Gray brother]

A guidance system in the form of a black man will stop the red hordes, yes.

[pmkemcity]

Now they will grease and give them to "comrades in arms".

[Alien From]

It seems that in the states, they know how to make money from the air no worse than the brothers ... Where do financial rivers flow ......?

[donavi49]

Why, on the contrary, it comes out pretty cheaply.

Here loot from the air, if they shoved an alternative project. The Avengers rot further, and purchase multifunctional missile systems. From heavy IFPC - to AIM9x / Hellfire

And light blocks from Boeing having 2 standardized mounts - on Stinger, Bushmaster, AIM9 and Hellfire.

But they decided to limit themselves to less spending and return the Avengers. And drive innovation developers past the budget.

[lucul]

But they decided to limit themselves to less spending and return the Avengers. And drive innovation developers past the budget.

And where is the radar?
Or the old fashioned way, by eye? )))

[donavi49]

Why radar? Is that where the radar is? More recently, this unparalleled F-22 cluster knocked down in the comments.

These are complexes of the same class and purpose. Missiles with infrared heads require only an optical station, it is.

If we are talking about connecting and organizing focal defense on our own - that is, we have a separate machine:

and they

In general, it all depends on the customer’s money, since they have a Rateon. For example, Oshkosh with AFAR on a telescopic mast + self-defense means (2 blocks of 4 Stinger each).

[Jack O'Neill]

Why radar? Is that where the radar is? More recently, this unparalleled F-22 cluster knocked down in the comments

For the functions of such machines and FLIR, it is enough to detect and take on escort (by the way, Avenger is on the machine)
The interesting thing is: what kind of modification is it specifically about?
There is a laser and a 25 mm gun. Yes there are a lot of things. Boeing tried with modularity at 5 points.

[Boris Chernikov]

cool and stupid, to be honest .. they would have put a bigger truck)

[strannik1985]

Why radar?

This proposal of the plant, in the troops of the "Strela-10M3" air defense system (up to 5 km) is replaced by the "Sosna" air defense system (up to 10 km).

[lucul]

USA returns Avenger air defense systems

Just vanguards shoot down .....

[dvina71]

Quote: lucul

Just vanguards shoot down .....

ON take off ... yes chetam !! .. right in the mines !!!!

[Ham]

battleships will soon be mothballed

[Pavel57]

AMRAAM on Hammer did not take root?

[donavi49]

Have taken root at the Norwegians. The Americans always assumed that enemy aircraft would be burned in the early days. They can somehow be endured. Therefore, its air defense, especially the military and near radius is always on a residual principle.

Well, but for the customer - there were no need for Humves with 120s, so Rateon completed it for the customer.

[lopvlad]

return Avenger air defense systems

there, the cabin is guaranteed to break through from the SVD from the first shot. Or is it calculated on the suddenness of use? Surprise in the modern world?

[Dr. Sorge]

They were not written off, why is it about returning?

[Aliken]

And now dig trenches along the German border, "in the face of Russian aggression", without trenches in any way.

[Sergst]

Quote: Amateur

helicopters and airplanes middle air based и low range flight

It seems that in VO began to forget the Russian language.

And they completely scored on reading the text. Delov is five cents, but people are pleased.

[KVU-NSVD]

The army received a "warning signal" while observing the conflict in Ukraine,

Yes, what nafig Ukraine ... Rather, the conclusions are drawn from the burning of the Saudi oil complex .. PS they just re-preserve them with HH or some thread upgrade still muddied?

[businessv]

In addition, it is reported that the American army thereby lays the foundation for large-scale military operations with an enemy like Russia.

Mattresses are well aware that if they start a war with Russia, no one will survive, but they stubbornly rock the boat! The result, in the form of an unprecedented military budget, is evident!

[Ros 56]

An interesting approach, we are trying to introduce a new one, and they return the old stuff. Hmm, where's the budget money going? After all, 738 billion greenery was scored for 2020 for defense. They’re just poking in their pockets, but our corrupt officials, suckers in front of the striped ones.

[Evil Booth]

In short, I don’t want to do bambi in NARTO air defense

[Boris Chernikov]

everything is simple .. the calculations showed that the Air Force will not be able to effectively carry out air defense functions and cover units on the march .. more simply, they themselves will be knocked down, and enemy aircraft will destroy the columns, therefore they put what they have ..

[Prisoner]

Russian "aggression"? Looks like mattress makers have doubts about Alaska.

[Zomanus]

Interestingly, and the "peepers" of these Avengers will see drones and other small-imperceptible?
There, after all, the most cimus is not in missiles, but the ability to detect / direct these missiles.
And also, how quickly do these complexes get out of order by our electronic warfare systems?

[donavi49]

EW - no way. Such installations are the most tenacious in conflicts with the massive use of everything from nuclear weapons to electronic warfare. Well, that is, in theory, you need to create so much energy that the electronics physically skip. If so much energy comes out to create, then the problems of the Avengers will be generally invisible. For physically electronics will be skipped everywhere.

This is a banal MANPADS on the platform + with a normal SLA, and not on the shooter's eye. That is, there the FLIR is stabilized (multi-mode optics) - the shooter looks at him and completes the installation, presses the capture, as the GOS captured = presses the start.

Radar and others are additional forces, for example, to organize air defense units at the deployment / parking stage. There is a separate car with a radar + a separate gearbox - in case of a mass raid you can divide the sectors, withdraw the cars well in advance, etc.

Drones will notice at the level of the optical station. That is, or notice or not. Drones from Alik - which are small, quiet and do not emit heat - most likely will not notice. TV2 or Outpost is likely to notice during the normal organization of scanning sectors of the optical station.