Military Review

“Almost completely burned out”: some details of the crash of the Su-57 are announced

103

Some details of the crash with the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 (T-50), which was tested on December 24 in the Komsomolsk-on-Amur region, continue to be published. We are talking about a combat fighter, which they were going to be the first to deliver to the Russian Aerospace Forces before the end of this year.


According to the latest information, the plane was flown by an experienced test pilot Aleksey Gorshkov. It was he who conducted the acceptance test, lifting the Su-57 into the air from the Dzemgi airfield.

The reports say that having raised the fighter to a height of about 10 thousand meters, the pilot was faced with a loss of control. He reported this "tower". Uncontrolled by the pilot began to decrease in height, after which the plane fell into a tailspin, being at an altitude of up to 8 thousand meters. The test pilot took all measures to stabilize the flight, but this could not be done. As a result, he fulfilled the command for the implementation of the bailout. An ejection took place at an altitude of about 2 km above the uninhabited area.

It is known that as a result of the contact of the combat vehicle with the ground, the aircraft completely destroyed. A fire broke out, as a result of which what was left of the Su-57 after the attack burned out almost completely.

Experts, based on information about the fall of the Su-57, believe that the cause of the crash could be problems with the tail.

At the moment, a special commission is working in the Khabarovsk Territory, which also includes developers of the fifth generation fighter. The Commission is studying the flight parameters in order to make a possible adjustment to the design of other Su-57s, preparing to be put into service with the Russian Air Force.
103 comments
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  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 27 December 2019 06: 59
    +12
    well done pilot, survived, then they will find a reason from his words.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 27 December 2019 07: 01
      +6
      The Commission is studying flight parameters in order to make possible adjustments to other Su-57s, which are being prepared for deployment to the Russian Air Force.
      not "correction" and not serviceability will be eliminated .. journalists ... a serviceable plane, flies like an angel. There are no equal aerobatics.
      1. Lynx-z
        Lynx-z 27 December 2019 09: 02
        +4
        the fact that the plane crashed means that it had a malfunction, but does not mean that all aircraft of this type are malfunctioning ..
        but there is a likelihood of the same malfunction occurring under certain conditions, therefore, it is necessary to find out the cause and possibly (!) make an adjustment to the design
        1. Mar.Tirah
          Mar.Tirah 27 December 2019 10: 01
          +18
          Proceeding from the fact that: "Now representatives of the Ministry of Defense are at the plant who, apparently, were just going to receive the fallen fighter" - there are good reasons to believe: 1. That there were no exorbitant loads. All these loads are done at the stage of static tests, at most on prototypes, but certainly not on serial machines. This is tantamount to the fact that the manager of a car dealership will, with a potential buyer, "hammer" the car into all corners or pillars. 2. The factory workers were "aware" that on the 25th the first serial was to be handed over solemnly. For this purpose, the relevant delegation arrived in advance. The plane was naturally prepared in accordance with all the relevant requirements, about a week was "driven" at the airfield, flew in the air for more than one hour, including initially with an escort. All this at the airfield was recorded by a video operator, with a clear purpose. And then at the very end it is! In the morning, the plane was properly prepared and at the end of these procedures, it briskly took off in the direction of the north. They began to suspect that something had happened to the plane, after a little later the rescue helicopter on duty took off and "left" in the same direction. Fortunately, they managed to pre-prepare it for flight in such a frost of about minus 40 degrees. So what happened there we can only guess. But I am prone to a factory defect. A very large load fell on KnAAZ both for SU-57 and Superjets. And everywhere there is a lag in terms of charts.
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 27 December 2019 10: 10
            0
            And everywhere there is a lag in schedules.

            Where is it everywhere?
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Alexey Sommer
              Alexey Sommer 27 December 2019 13: 48
              +5
              Quote: Voyager
              And everywhere there is a lag in schedules.

              Where is it everywhere?

              Yes, you re-read the comment. Everything is in Russian, clearly written.
              1. Voyager
                Voyager 27 December 2019 15: 17
                0
                Quote: Alexey Sommer
                Yes, you re-read the comment. Everything is in Russian, clearly written.

                That is why I am specifying it, because I don’t remember that the same Su-35 deliveries were behind schedule, and there are many such examples. This is no longer "everywhere".
        2. orionvitt
          orionvitt 27 December 2019 10: 58
          +1
          Quote: Lynx-Z
          need to find out the reason

          To do this, before acceptance and conduct tests. so I don’t see much tragedy. They’ll figure it out, and it’s not like that in history. Some SU-24, only during the test lost 12 pcs., Not to mention the problems in the units. And MIG-24, how much it was modified already in the process of operation. And such examples are the sea. So they’ll solve the problem.
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 27 December 2019 12: 23
            -1
            Quote: orionvitt
            А MIG-24how much has been modified already during operation

            Probably meant MiG-25?
            1. orionvitt
              orionvitt 27 December 2019 16: 57
              0
              Quote: Piramidon
              Probably meant MiG-25?

              Exactly, of course, the 25th. A hand missed the key. request
    2. aszzz888
      aszzz888 27 December 2019 07: 05
      +2
      Aerodrome (Aerodrom) Today, 06: 59 NEW
      0
      well done pilot, survived, then they will find a reason from his words.

      Of course, thank God! that the pilot is alive and will give certain evidence. But without boxes, this will not be a complete vision of the disaster. And even more so, according to information, there is little left of the plane, which will even more complicate the conclusions of the commission.
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 13
        +1
        Quote: aszzz888
        thank God! that the pilot is alive and will give certain evidence.

        yesat least by indirect signs, specialists will be able to understand the reason. and yes ... glory to Catapult.
    3. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 27 December 2019 10: 25
      -15
      Quote: Aerodrome
      well done pilot, survived, then they will find a reason from his words.

      The pilot is very suspicious. He already crashed the Su-30 once during the test, and now the Su-57. Does it work for the enemy?
      1. NN52
        NN52 27 December 2019 12: 25
        +12
        Sky strike fighter

        Is this such a joke from you about the pilot? Smiley forgot to put?
        You have probably seen that video of the Su 30, from what position and with what overload the pilots "got off" the plane before the ejection.
        Joker .... Christmas tree sticks ...
      2. K-36
        K-36 27 December 2019 18: 49
        +4
        Sky Strike fighter "Very suspicious pilot"

        Do not consider it such an overwhelming work and read these reflections-memories of the MiG test pilot, Hero of Russia, Alexander Garnaev. "Pilot error".
        https://vk.com/topic-58037357_30803172
        You will learn a lot of information: a) what failures are encountered by pilots in flight; b) the pilot's assessment of the hazard class of failure; c) the development by the pilot of an individual plan to combat this failure (relying on his own head, flight experience and physical capabilities); d) development by the pilot of the final intuitive solution (fight to the end or catapult in the presence of an ejection seat).
        In the same story you can find out when and under what circumstances Roman Taskaev first catapulted (along with General Fedotov, by the way). I sincerely hope that your views on the accident with the Su-57 will undergo a radical rethinking on your part.
        hi
    4. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 27 December 2019 13: 27
      +1
      Quote: Aerodrome
      well done pilot, survived

      And not for the first time. In 2012, he was part of the crew of the SU-30MK2 crashed in February at 130 km. from Komsomolsk-on-Amur (this time the plane fell 110 km). So now he has three birthdays.
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 27 December 2019 07: 03
    +2
    The Commission is studying flight parameters in order to make possible adjustments to other Su-57s, which are being prepared for deployment to the Russian Air Force.

    Very, very bad situation. Will specialists be able to determine the exact cause of the disaster? request
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 27 December 2019 08: 16
      +15
      If, as they say, problems could arise with the tail, then something like that was on the Mig-25 tests. At certain modes and at a certain speed, the aircraft began to rotate with a transition to an uncontrolled fall. When identifying this reason, test pilot Oleg Vasilievich Gudkov died.
      So the emergency situations were, are and will be, there is no getting anywhere from this. It’s good that the pilot survived. Test pilots are piece copies (yes they will forgive me for copies), they will make one more car, but you will not return the dead pilot!
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 27 December 2019 09: 33
        -4
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        If, as they say, problems could arise with the tail, then something like that was on the Mig-25 tests. At certain modes and at a certain speed, the aircraft began to rotate with a transition to an uncontrolled fall. When identifying this reason, test pilot Oleg Vasilievich Gudkov died.
        So the emergency situations were, are and will be, there is no getting anywhere from this. It’s good that the pilot survived. Test pilots are piece copies (yes they will forgive me for copies), they will make one more car, but you will not return the dead pilot!

        it is not correct to compare a missile interceptor with a highly maneuverable fighter, which, in principle, is supercontrolled by an all-terrain engine. there are already new problems. rather related to the elemental base.
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 27 December 2019 09: 46
          +1
          Airfield (Airfield)
          not correctly comparing a missile interceptor with a highly maneuverable fighter

          Where did you see the comparison? I just pointed out that when testing a new technology, various emergency situations can arise, nothing more!
          there are already new problems. rather related to the elemental base.
          Here we must wait for the conclusions of the expert commission, before that all our reasoning, the essence of fortune-telling on coffee grounds.
    2. bar
      bar 27 December 2019 08: 20
      -1
      Are there any reasonable doubts?
    3. Galleon
      Galleon 27 December 2019 09: 56
      +14
      I may have a naive question: why not embed the recording unit for parameters and negotiations (black box) in the pilot's seat? When bailout, all records would be saved. It's like taking a logbook with you.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 27 December 2019 12: 59
        +6
        Sensible idea, by the way! good
        1. Harry.km
          Harry.km 27 December 2019 13: 34
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Sensible idea, by the way!

          After the bailout, the plane still flies and the recorders write ...
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 27 December 2019 13: 53
            +5
            This is true ... But usually when the pilot catapults, the reason is already clear.
            But black boxes are not always found. And sometimes they find and hide
            what they found if they want to confuse the investigation.
            But if the box is built into the chair, they will definitely find it and all sorts of excuses will not work.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 27 December 2019 14: 14
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But usually, when the pilot catapults, the reason is already clear.

              An interesting thought, what does it mean - usually? and even more so about the reason, which is clear.
              It is also unclear who exactly wants to confuse the investigation.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But if the box is built into the chair, they will definitely find it and all sorts of excuses will not work.

              What drawer, and how, and why should it (drawer) be built into the chair? After all, the pilot lands separately from the seat, the pilot "leaves" the plane with the seat, but then "everyone" moves along their own trajectories.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But usually

              That's just the point that it is still necessary to be able to catapult.
              Why not read it.
              1. venik
                venik 28 December 2019 21: 41
                +2
                Quote: bober1982
                After all, the pilot lands separately from the seat, the pilot "leaves" the plane with the seat, but then "everyone" moves along their own trajectories.

                ========
                Well, it’s not so!
                If you take the most common perfect Soviet / Russian seat K-36DM (used on the vast majority of modern Russian aircraft), it just uses a slightly different scheme:
                ......
                After 0,8 seconds (after shooting a chair, at low speeds the headrest is shot, separation with a chair and parachute is launched. At high speeds, this happens after braking to an acceptable speed. Pilot comes down in a special seatunder which there is an oxygen system and a box with a portable emergency reserve (NAZ) (about 10 kg). 4 seconds after the separation with the chair, the NAZ detaches and hangs from below on the cable.
                Well, WHAT interferes either in the "seat" or in the NAZ, if not in the "NAZ box" or even in the helmet or the pilot's pocket a portable storage device (sealed and shockproof (at the level of a wristwatch) - something like a "flash drive"), duplicate information from "black boxes" ???
                - Firstly, it would greatly simplify, reduce the cost and speed up the removal of information (if the pilot survived, then the information goes to decryption - almost immediately after its rescue);
                - Secondly, in case of damage to the "black boxes" - would allow to supplement information about the LTP;
                - Thirdly - such an "innovation" (unless of course it is not yet) - looks neither too expensive nor extremely complicated !!!
          2. Lynx33
            Lynx33 28 December 2019 07: 59
            +1
            So you need two recorders, but the backup one should be easier in fact in the pilot's seat.
            1. venik
              venik 28 December 2019 20: 11
              0
              Quote: Lynx33
              So you need two recorders, but the backup one should be easier in fact in the pilot's seat.

              =========
              drinks Or even in the pilot's pocket! Something like a "flash drive"!
        2. venik
          venik 27 December 2019 15: 59
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Sensible idea, by the way! good

          =======
          good I also had a question - why not build a "black box" into an ejection seat, or "on an extreme" - not "shoot" it together with the pilot (even if WITHOUT a parachute - a "black box" - not a man - will withstand and hitting the ground (unless of course there will be a fire) !!! drinks
      2. NN52
        NN52 27 December 2019 14: 59
        +4
        Galleon
        And if a disaster? The pilot did not have time to eject?
        Usually, nothing remains of the cockpit ..... And the tail section (keel, etc.), according to "statistics" ... remains "more or less" not damaged (if so mildly and figuratively say ..). But sometimes nothing remains at all ...
        1. Galleon
          Galleon 27 December 2019 16: 11
          +2
          Yes, everything is advisable. Thank.
        2. lelik613
          lelik613 27 December 2019 18: 43
          +1
          If duplicated, then there will be no harm.
          1. not main
            not main 27 December 2019 22: 35
            +1
            Quote: lelik613
            If duplicated, then there will be no harm.

            Will be! Firstly, extra weight, secondly, extra hundreds of meters of wiring, thirdly, squibs and the possibility of shooting, in the end the opportunity to find this unit! If about a "beacon", how long will the battery last? Large batteries are overweight again. The pilot is not immediately found, but you mean some kind of "box".
        3. Petrix
          Petrix 28 December 2019 00: 40
          0
          Quote: NN52
          And if a disaster? The pilot did not have time to eject?

          Leave the boxes as they were, but attach a flash drive in an armchair or suit. It does not need to be protected from overloads and other factors, and, accordingly, the weight is minimal.
  3. Kostyar
    Kostyar 27 December 2019 07: 04
    +2
    That's why they are tests, they will study, research, correct!
    1. Avior
      Avior 27 December 2019 07: 15
      +17
      If this is acceptance-acceptance, then not everything is so simple.
      It is assumed that the aircraft should not have such defects, if it was allowed before the series
      1. lucul
        lucul 27 December 2019 07: 34
        +1
        If this is acceptance-acceptance, then not everything is so simple.
        It is assumed that the aircraft should not have such defects, if it was allowed before the series

        And no one canceled the version of intentional sabotage .....
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 44
          +2
          Quote: lucul
          And no one canceled the version of intentional sabotage ....

          yes, we love this business ... a hole from a hand drill in the ISS ... yes, I agree, a conspiracy. (what about the hole, by the way, are they silent?
          1. sledak
            sledak 27 December 2019 14: 19
            +1
            Quote: Aerodrome
            ... (by the way, they are silent about the hole? Was it brewed up? Or was it closed up with an "orbit"?)


            No, they say the saliva of the rogozin "life-giving" it (the hole) tightened. They took a special flight to the ISS ... we were certainly not informed about this
    2. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 16
      +2
      Quote: Bone
      That’s why they are tested,

      unless they are tested batch. and then the "jamb" turns out to be constructive, or "elemental" which is worse at times.
  4. Amateur
    Amateur 27 December 2019 07: 09
    +5
    And where are the details?
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 23
      0
      Quote: Amateur
      And where are the details?

      this is for you at the government commission to investigate the crash of LA.
      1. Amateur
        Amateur 27 December 2019 08: 35
        +4
        this is for you at the government commission to investigate the crash of LA.

        And to you - the title of the article.
        “Almost burnt out”: voiced some Details crash of the Su-57
        drinks
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 38
          -4
          Quote: Amateur
          this is for you at the government commission to investigate the crash of LA.

          And to you - the title of the article.
          “Almost burnt out”: voiced some Details crash of the Su-57
          drinks

          that is, "burned out completely" is not enough for you? details are needed: how did it burn, how did the composites melt, how did the aluminum burn out, what gas came from the wiring and composite materials during combustion? laughing drinks
          1. Amateur
            Amateur 27 December 2019 08: 45
            +4
            The fact that it crashed and burned up was news on December 24.12.2019, 27.12.2019, and today's article (December XNUMX, XNUMX). The editors finally "got it" or is it "What's the news?"
            1. Aerodrome
              Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 47
              0
              Quote: Amateur
              .

              The reports say that having raised the fighter to an altitude of about 10 thousand meters, the pilot was faced with a loss of control. He reported this to the "tower". An uncontrolled decrease in altitude began, after which the plane fell into a tailspin, being at an altitude of up to 8 thousand meters. The test pilot took all measures to stabilize the flight, but this could not be done. As a result, he carried out the command to carry out the bailout. There was a bailout at an altitude of about 2 km above a deserted area. in this, apparently, .... "loss of control" ... and earlier they wondered about ... everything ....request
  5. Avior
    Avior 27 December 2019 07: 13
    +2
    A problem that may affect the issue and sale
    There are no conclusions yet, but theoretically there are three such
    1 independent of the aircraft. Weather or a pilot’s mistake, in this case it will affect the production minimally, the flight instructions will correct, someone will be punished, not very much
    2 manufacturing defects in manufacturing
    It will be reflected, but to a much greater extent
    Something there at the plant will be corrected in quality, reported, time will be spent on changing production
    3 fundamental defect in aircraft construction.
    In this case, the delay can be serious
    1. mark1
      mark1 27 December 2019 07: 27
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      Weather or pilot error

      On this type of aircraft, neither a mistake (and even at such an altitude) nor the weather should affect.
      Quote: Avior
      manufacturing defects

      Too early for marriage. The first production model, almost experimental after 10 flight copies.
      Quote: Avior
      fundamental defect in aircraft construction.

      On 10 prototypes it didn’t appear, but on the first production one it got out - miracles!
      All these reasons are not so typical that they can be, but you have to be very guilty before God.
      1. Avior
        Avior 27 December 2019 07: 37
        +3
        And what is your possible version that does not fit into these three?
        There must be a reason
        Do not offer diversion.
        1. mark1
          mark1 27 December 2019 07: 45
          +2
          That's just her, darling, I propose yesterday and today. And not a single argument has been given convincing me otherwise (the disadvantages are not arguments, but an expression of emotions)
          1. Victoria-V
            Victoria-V 27 December 2019 09: 55
            +1
            They say the SU-57 was shot down by the ukrobanderovsky SU-24. Local residents saw how they fired 2 RS-2-US missiles. One accidentally hit.
            1. Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich
              Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich 27 December 2019 10: 11
              -2
              What do we use ??? winked barbiturates, canabioids or opiates ?? Maybe methamphetamines ?? Or salt with zimbura ??
              1. Victoria-V
                Victoria-V 27 December 2019 10: 19
                -1
                Didn't guess) Just different cannabinoids.
                1. Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich
                  Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich 29 December 2019 15: 14
                  0
                  Hmm winked they are different ??))
            2. mark1
              mark1 27 December 2019 10: 12
              -3
              Quote: Victoria-In
              ... ukrobanderovsky ....

              Given the percentage of Ukrainians working in our ship-aircraft-rocket production and in the oil and gas industry, your version is not groundless.
            3. Mar.Tirah
              Mar.Tirah 27 December 2019 10: 26
              +1
              Quote: Victoria-In
              They say the SU-57 was shot down by the ukrobanderovsky SU-24. Locals saw

              But read what the locals really saw during the tests. Nick Comsophile
              - "Really kapets!
              Once sitting and relaxing on the Silinka river, bearing the name Silina, I saw how the guys on a combat plane make freaks for everyone to see.
              It will definitely fall if it continues to show off, I said. Thank God it’s not for the city.
              And yes! Beautifully and at times I thought that they didn’t put the pilot there, as it was clear that the overloads were unbelievable.
              The main thing is that people are alive, and we still rivet the piece of iron "!.
          2. Avior
            Avior 27 December 2019 11: 25
            -1
            why do you think such a thing about sabotage?
            and other confirmed cases of sabotage in relation to a mass-produced aircraft in the conditions of the manufacturer recently can you bring?
            Just not someone’s fantasies, but really well-known, confirmed cases of sabotage against combat aircraft produced in Russia at a factory for, say, the last ten years, can you bring?
            I admit, I can’t remember a single one, and you?
            If not, then why should we invent non-existent, if there are probably real reasons?
            1. mark1
              mark1 27 December 2019 15: 07
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              and other confirmed cases of sabotage in relation to a mass-produced aircraft in a factory -

              Well, why do you think so narrowly? What does the disaster of the first production copy of the Su-57 mean? - tarnished reputation, delayed access to the world market, on which the Americans (first of all) and the Chinese are already (the queue, as it were, was not even the first ...)
              Do you need other examples of sabotage? You are welcome;
              - "Proton" for 50 years put the sensor as it should and suddenly on you upside down (well, of course, by accident)
              - "Soyuz" with its holes (probably a drunken installer screwed up ...)
              - a strange series of fires on ships and submarines being repaired and on conservation (of course, the sailors of the PPB did not know, unlike the Bolsheviks in the 20s, then only one battleship was burned)
              - by and large, the situation with "Nord Stream 2" is an example of competent sabotage
              Yes, there’s a lot more ... this is when the case is single, you can refer to sloppiness and in our case it’s someone’s methodical painstaking work.
              1. Avior
                Avior 27 December 2019 17: 53
                0
                None of the above cases is recognized diversion
                As I understand it, not a single such case is not that in aviation or in another industry
                I don’t think they need to be invented, other explanations are enough
                Do not multiply entities beyond necessity
                hi
                1. aesculapius
                  aesculapius 12 February 2020 03: 06
                  0
                  stubbornly push back the sabotage version - who are you defending? who paid you?
                  If the gopher is not visible, this does not mean that it is not.
        2. igor67
          igor67 27 December 2019 08: 39
          +7
          Quote: Avior
          And what is your possible version that does not fit into these three?
          There must be a reason
          Do not offer diversion.

          From my experience, 15 years repairing turntables, from 85-2000, before NG, rush begins, turn in cars and close the quarter and year, they worked in NG, and another problem was before in Soviet times, we were given alcohol for overtime work, without alcohol could not go on a business trip
          1. Avior
            Avior 27 December 2019 12: 28
            +1
            Of course, we don’t know the reason, at least for now, but more is believed in your version than in mythical sabotage ....
      2. bar
        bar 27 December 2019 08: 23
        +1
        On 10 prototypes it didn’t appear, but on the first production one it got out - miracles!

        No miracles. Experienced products are collected by other people. And the transfer to the series is rarely without problems.
        1. mark1
          mark1 27 December 2019 08: 36
          0
          Quote: bar
          Experienced products are collected by other people.

          Something tells me that the first serial was assembled with the participation of the same people (they are from the same enterprise).
          Quote: bar
          And the transfer to the series is rarely without problems.

          Do not give statistics of factory flight accidents of the first production copies?
          1. bar
            bar 27 December 2019 08: 47
            +1
            Do not give statistics of factory flight accidents of the first production copies?

            I won’t bring it. That's about the huge number of problems when setting up a series of new cars that have passed all the tests, brought and certified, I can tell. Of course, there is a lot of specificity in aviation, but there is also much in common with the automotive industry.
      3. Pathos
        Pathos 27 December 2019 09: 58
        +2
        for a moment 25 the identity did not show a bite defect of the elevator until the planes began to fall in combat units and the la was already taken into service, here it was already described in comments and the mode turned out to be insidious not even supersonic the defect was not immediately found in which modes it just did not drive died the earth’s tester rest in peace, but how many lives were saved in the future, and so if this is the final version without prototypes, went into series with the accident they will now drive him to blue and green brooms laughing they will find the reason and the car will become operational good
      4. Petrix
        Petrix 28 December 2019 00: 50
        0
        Quote: mark1
        Too early for marriage. The first production model, almost experimental after 10 flight copies.

        Just the time for mistakes. If other people begin to produce a new technique for themselves. Is all the documentation ready for the series? Usually she catches up with iron.
    2. bober1982
      bober1982 27 December 2019 07: 50
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      There are no conclusions yet, but theoretically there are three such

      Agree, it’s somehow absurd for all of us to draw any conclusions here, and the very topic of the Su-57 crash got tired of it.
      By the way, it happens that there is no fault in the plane crash, neither the pilot, nor the representatives of the manufacturer, and it happens. To distract ourselves, one can recall the Tu-4 crash at the Kuibyshev Aviation Plant N18 (August 18, 1951)
      The plane was rolled out, not yet painted with LIS, and prepared for a test flight to practice firing and bombing, there were 15 (fifteen) people on board. After working at the training ground, when approaching Kuibyshev, the crew lost contact. The plane crashed, on board everyone died.
      The conclusions of the commission, under the leadership of Colonel General Gromov - there is no fault of the crew and the manufacturer. Before making such conclusions, a great and thorough work was carried out with the involvement of the Air Force Research Institute and the MAP.
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 27 December 2019 08: 26
        -3
        the scent is such that all the same electronics ... is our weak everything.
        1. Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich
          Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich 27 December 2019 10: 13
          +1
          What sney should be wrong in terms of reliability ?? After all, we fly into space complex systems; we create on its basis really reliability failed ?? I can’t believe it.
      2. Avior
        Avior 27 December 2019 11: 30
        0
        I by no means blame the pilot or technicians, or anyone else, but there must be one or another reason for the crash of the plane; didn’t it just so fall?
        It’s just that I have grouped all the real possible causes into three main groups according to the possibility of delaying the production of aircraft, and the commission decides, here you are completely right.
        There is a truth, and the fourth, they found no reason, which is also not very good from the point of view of production delays, especially, if God forbid, a similar situation will happen again.
        hi
    3. Liam
      Liam 27 December 2019 09: 08
      +1
      Quote: Avior
      Weather

      At 10.000 meters the weather is monotonous)
    4. Good_Anonymous
      Good_Anonymous 27 December 2019 12: 27
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      3 fundamental defect in aircraft construction.


      The plane has been flying for 10 years. It is hard to believe that they missed something fundamental. I would rather believe in a manufacturing defect.
      1. Avior
        Avior 27 December 2019 12: 31
        0
        anything can happen.
        F-35 and more flew, and the fuel pipe changed after a big flight hours
        It is possible that the defect does not appear on all copies
        I think it's too early to guess, I just formed, in principle, how this can affect production delays
        1. Good_Anonymous
          Good_Anonymous 27 December 2019 13: 41
          0
          I would not call the defect in the fuel line pipe fundamental.
          1. Avior
            Avior 27 December 2019 13: 58
            +1
            not principal, and appears only on a small part of the sides
            but nevertheless, there are some nuances that appear only after a sufficient flight hours
            And the F-35 in this respect, as you know, had a lot more raid
            therefore, any reason theoretically could be
            we will wait for information
    5. venik
      venik 27 December 2019 16: 12
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      There are no conclusions yet, but theoretically there are three such

      =======
      I personally "bet" (9 to 1) on pin # 2 - the factory "jamb". And - NOT NECESSARILY the manufacturer! - there are hundreds of "subcontractors" - some of the component parts - could pass the tests, but could not stand it in flight!
      WHY think so ?:
      - 1) Pilot - EXPERIENCED! ("piloting error" is a little real!) ...
      - 2) TEN (!) Cars have already been driven "in the tail and in the mane" (in all possible modes !!! And - NOTHING !!! So "constructive miscalculation" is also, "somehow not very good" .. .....
      - 3) The option that some "innovations" that have not been tested earlier were applied on the First SERIAL aircraft - "I DO NOT BELIEVE !!!" .....

      Remains - "jamb" or the manufacturer, or (most likely) - "subcontractors" - all the more the plane is already in a row - the 11th! (could and "relax") ....

      But this is my personal "trench point of view" (mind you - NOT CLAIMING for "ultimate truth")! request
      1. Petrix
        Petrix 28 December 2019 01: 06
        +1
        Quote: venik
        The option that some "innovations" that have not passed the test earlier were applied on the First SERIAL aircraft - "I DO NOT BELIEVE !!!" ..

        It could even be. Experienced workshop and serial, if in this case they are not combined, have different technological principles and, accordingly, equipment. On new equipment, it is necessary to master a technical process different from the experimental one and usually many adjustments are made.
        Note - the same part from different factories may differ, not in the main parameters of course. Even within the same production batch may vary. This is not to mention errors in the process that are more difficult to detect than explicit marriage.
  6. Skubudu
    Skubudu 27 December 2019 09: 02
    -1
    Strange ... for 8 years of testing, there were no similar problems.
    Diversion along the way.
  7. Esaul
    Esaul 27 December 2019 09: 36
    +1
    Due to the fact that one tongue is jammed, a billion burned, tin
    1. Petrix
      Petrix 28 December 2019 01: 17
      +1
      Quote: Esaul
      Due to the fact that one tongue is jammed, a billion burned, tin

      Little things do not exist! The sheet pile is jammed because the size is out of tolerance. And the size was checked at the wrong air temperature. And the thermometer was not near the part where the draft happened (someone came in at that moment). In addition, the mating part with the maximum tolerance for the worse came across. ....
  8. Voyager
    Voyager 27 December 2019 10: 12
    +4
    And yet this is not a disaster, as it is written in the news.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 December 2019 14: 18
      -2
      No - it's just a manufacturing defect or a short-hand assembly. That it would be necessary to try to fill up the first production car on tests, but now the plant will build a new aircraft at its own expense - as the customer in the person of MO is not obliged to pay for the manufacturer’s jambs and loss of production.
  9. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 27 December 2019 10: 20
    0
    Quote: Voyager
    And everywhere there is a lag in schedules.

    Where is it everywhere?

    Komsomolsk-on-Amur. KnAAZ
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 27 December 2019 15: 20
      0
      KnAAZ produces not only the above-mentioned aircraft. He also delivers Su-35S and at least on time, and sometimes even ahead of schedule. So it's not "everywhere" at all.
      1. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 27 December 2019 17: 14
        +1
        Quote: Voyager
        So it's not "everywhere" at all.

        I did not write about other aircraft. I wrote about these two, the Su-57 and the Superjet., And I emphasized what can happen as a result of the rut. , I am for building up the technical capabilities, capabilities of the military-industrial complex in this area and not only from the state. Otherwise, it turns out like this, the Ministry of Defense says, - "So we gave you an order for production. it is necessary, and how we do not care "They want to eat a fish and feed Serdyukov and Vasilyeva.
  10. Captain45
    Captain45 27 December 2019 13: 00
    -1
    There is one positive point in this whole story, just don’t throw your slippers - It is known that as a result of the contact of the combat vehicle with the ground, the aircraft completely destroyed. A fire broke out, as a result of which what was left of the Su-57 after the attack burned out almost completely.(C).
    This means that in the event that the adversary will not get anything, he will not have to learn our new equipment from the wreckage. Everything will burn, let him pick it in the ashes.
  11. Carib
    Carib 27 December 2019 13: 20
    +1
    Quote: Aerodrome
    the scent is such that all the same electronics ... is our weak everything.

    On such aircraft tripling, fivefolding, the probability is small .... but something mechanical fell into the gap and blocked (limited movement) it really is likely ....
  12. Carib
    Carib 27 December 2019 13: 23
    0
    Quote: Esaul
    Due to the fact that one tongue is jammed, a billion burned, tin

    Oh no, what a billion, a couple of hundred million $, yes, ......
    1. Good_Anonymous
      Good_Anonymous 27 December 2019 14: 03
      0
      $ 200M, even the F-22 was not worth it.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 December 2019 14: 20
        -1
        In the region of 2,5 billion rubles, Su 57 is definitely worth it.
        1. Good_Anonymous
          Good_Anonymous 27 December 2019 14: 43
          0
          But this is not $ 200M, but $ 38M. True, I unreasonably believe that it costs 2 times more expensive, but still not nearly $ 200M.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 27 December 2019 17: 22
            -2
            2,5 billion rubles - for Russia this is a decent amount, with this money you can open an average plant.
  13. spectr
    spectr 27 December 2019 14: 45
    0
    Let them search. If not complete fools, they will not fail the project. While in the ranking of armies, Russia has the 2nd place. If our elite "drowns" several of these high-tech projects, then positions may shift and Russia may look differently, including in trade relations.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 December 2019 17: 36
      -1
      Not a single project has been drowned - but this one is suddenly drowned.
      1. spectr
        spectr 27 December 2019 17: 54
        -1
        Now, probably, TAM in private conversation was not the only one who spoke about the suspension of the order. If this happens, then this may be enough to drown the project.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 27 December 2019 18: 01
          -1
          It’s not for that that they start it - to suspend it all the more so it is a private office.
          1. spectr
            spectr 29 December 2019 14: 30
            0
            Here the question is no longer in efficiency, but in whose team the "player" (developer) is.
            If the Sukhoi design bureau has crossed someone's path, then they will concoct a document where they will expose the aircraft's flaws, inflate them to gigantic proportions and justify the need for a new development at the MiG or Yak.
            The Su-57 had problems with the order, but someone managed to give the project a kick and he got to Putin. A plane crash can cross out everything and even add problems to this accelerator.
  14. Durman_54
    Durman_54 27 December 2019 18: 50
    0
    Lord, some kind of sabotage is being invented. The plant, as usual, was supposed to hand over the plane to the People, Party and Leader by the new year. Of course, completed in the rump. Of course, it turned out as usual.
    The only thing that can be called a diversion here is the practice that had begun since the union to hand over the equipment on November 7, the birthday of the Secretary General, new year etc.
  15. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 27 December 2019 23: 15
    0
    Quote: Sky Strike fighter
    Quote: Aerodrome
    well done pilot, survived, then they will find a reason from his words.

    The pilot is very suspicious. He already crashed the Su-30 once during the test, and now the Su-57. Does it work for the enemy?

    And I see in your message the intrigue of the enemy. This flyer HOW MUCH AIRPLANES DIDN'T CRASH! But, in fact, had such an opportunity. Enemies don’t do that. There is more harm from your message than from the pilot.
  16. Chingachguk
    Chingachguk 28 December 2019 11: 36
    0
    And where should problems come to light if not in trials? In real battle? Where is the real combat mission posed, on which the lives and outcomes of the battles depend? Or maybe planes should fall with people like the latest unfinished boeing? Do not say stupid gentlemen.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 December 2019 22: 57
      -1
      This is the first serial machine for the Air Force - all technical tests have already been completed on the previous 12 machines. Vienna in a disaster or in a manufacturing defect or in a short-hand assembly - there is no third.