Military Review

The hunger hike. How did the Orenburg army die

146
The hunger hike. How did the Orenburg army die

Alexander Ilyich Dutov (1879-1921), chieftain of the Orenburg Cossacks, commander of the Orenburg army


Smoot. 1919 year. At the end of 1919, the White Orenburg Army was killed. The Cossacks, under the command of Generals Dutov and Bakich, made a Hunger trip in December from the war zone near Akmolinsk to Sergiopol. This campaign began simultaneously with the Great Siberian Ice Campaign of the Kolchak Army.

Retreat of the Orenburg Army


On October 29, 1919, the Red Army occupied Petropavlovsk and began an almost non-stop pursuit of the enemy along the Trans-Siberian Railway. On November 14, 1919, the whites left Omsk. The Siberian government fled to Irkutsk. Czechoslovak troops, defending the Siberian Railway, refused to fight with the Reds, withdrew and moved to Vladivostok. Thus, they blocked the Trans-Siberian Railway and practically destroyed the opportunity for whites to quickly retreat, break away from the enemy, regroup remaining forces and gain a foothold at a new remote frontier in order to survive the winter and spring offensive again. Broken and demoralized Kolchakites retreated to the east. The Great Siberian Ice Campaign began.

On the left flank of the white Eastern Front, the Dutov Orenburg army retreated to Ishim, and by the evening of October 30, the headquarters of the 4th Orenburg Army Corps arrived in Atbasar. The army was in the most deplorable state. In fact, she was in the formation stage, which she did not have time to complete. Units retreated along the bare, deserted steppe with no supplies. There was no artillery, transport, ammunition, provisions and uniforms. There was no warm clothing, which in the conditions of the onset of winter quickly affected in the most negative way. Settlements were rare and small, that is, they could not become a full-fledged base for the troops. Cossacks surrendered in whole regiments. They did not want to go far east, sought to return to their native villages. Typhus raged in the troops, knocking out half of the manpower. The most combat-ready core of the army was the 4th Orenburg Army Corps of General Bakich, which restrained the onslaught of the enemy.

Dutov planned to defend the Ishim River to cover the concentration of the main forces of the army in the area of ​​Atbasar-Kokchetav-Akmolinsk. Together with the 2nd Steppe Corps, keep Pavlodar and Semipalatinsk. This area was convenient for wintering, as there was food and fodder. The commander offered to organize a guerrilla war, to smash the enemy rear. In winter, complete the formation of the army, replenish with mobilization, arm, supply and in the spring go on a counterattack. But all this was already a dream. The White Eastern Front finally collapsed. After the fall of Omsk, the White Cossacks first retreated east. The Kokchetav group of the 5th Soviet Army did not allow the White Cossacks to stay in this area. The Reds went around Atbasar from the north and north-west and went to the rear of the army of Dutov. The Cossacks left Atbasar.

The small Orenburg army had to retreat in conditions of constant clashes with the Reds and the rebels. All Siberia at that time was blazing. The initial direction to Pavlodar, in order to reach the Great Siberian Way, soon had to be abandoned. The city of Pavlodar, located 700 miles from the White Cossacks, was occupied by the Reds at the end of November. Slowly moving south, the Orenburg army was moving along the sparsely populated and deserted region to Akmolinsk and Karkaralinsk. When leaving, the remains of artillery were thrown. On November 26, the Reds occupied Atbasar, on November 28 - Akmolinsk.


Andrey Stepanovich Bakich (1878 - 1922), lieutenant general, commander of the 4th Orenburg Army Corps, Orenburg detachment

The hunger hike


Arriving in Karkaralinsk, Dutov found out that the red parts were going to cross him from Pavlodar. At the same time, news came that in Semipalatinsk there was an uprising - the soldiers of the 2nd Steppe Corps rebelled and killed their officers. They switched to the side of the Reds, who soon occupied Semipalatinsk. As a result, the remnants of the Orenburg army lost hope of joining Kolchak’s troops and could only retreat to Sergiopol, Semirechye, which was occupied by the forces of ataman Annenkov. A trip to the east through a deserted steppe began in the first week of December 1919 and continued until the end of December.

The path from Karkaralinsk to Sergiopol (550 versts) ran along a desert, partially mountainous terrain, almost without settlements, without water sources. Rare groups of nomads, as the Cossacks approached, immediately left with their cattle south, to Lake Balkhash. The troops and refugees had virtually no supplies, and there was no way to get them along the way. To survive, they cut and ate horses, camels. In fact, at that moment the army was no longer there, numerous convoys, groups of horsemen and foot refugees were moving. Typhoid epidemic was rampant. The wounded died, people died from disease, from hunger and cold.

On December 12, the Reds occupied Karkaralinsk. Initially, the red cavalry pursued the retreating, then lagged behind. However, it was necessary to engage in battles with the red partisans. Partisans of the Red Prince of Khovansky, who recaptured many convoys with refugees and property, caused especially great damage.

Winter came into its own with 20 degrees of frost. In the conditions of the desert steppe area, purged by all the winds, for the hungry, exhausted by the many-day transitions of people, without normal warm clothes it was death. As the campaigner recalled:
“... snow and snowstorms are frosty, cold and hunger ... Deserted desert ... People are dying, and horses are dying hundreds - they are lying on a feedless bed ... Someone still wandering about like feet with an out-of-memory memory ... Typhoid fever of all kinds increases the severity of the trip: the healthy carry the sick, until they fall down themselves, they sleep in the desert all together, huddled together, healthy and sick ... The laggards die. ”


This terrible march was called the “Hunger Campaign”, since on the one hand it passed through the vast waterless expanses of the Hungry Steppe. On the other hand, due to the general tragic conditions: many Cossacks and members of their families died from wounds, hunger, cold, exhaustion and typhoid. Data on the strength and loss of Dutov’s army during the Hunger Campaign are very different. From 20 to 40 thousand people went camping. Half went to Sergiopol. However, many survivors were ill with typhoid.


End of the army


At the end of December 1919, the remnants of the Orenburg Army reached Sergiopol, where they planned to rest. The north-eastern part of the Seven Rivers was occupied by the troops of Ataman Annenkov. Considering himself the owner of the Semirechye, Annenkov refused to recognize the atman Dutov as a senior. He ordered that the Orenburg Cossacks be given neither housing, nor food, nor ammunition. The Orenburg units were completely demoralized, there were many patients with typhoid, so they could not exert force pressure.

To get out of a critical situation, Dutov lost. Annenkov was paid a significant ransom for the supply and provision of housing to the Orenburg Cossacks. Dutov was appointed ataman Annenkov as the civil governor general of the Semirechensk region, and left for Lepsinsk. The command of the Orenburg army, which was being reorganized into the Orenburg detachment, passed to General Bakich, with submission to Ataman Annenkov. Bakic was an experienced, brave and disciplined commander. He fought with the Japanese and Germans, in 1919 he headed the 4th Orenburg Army Corps.

Annenkovtsy and Dutovtsy were not able to establish normal interaction. Their differences eventually grew to a deadly feud. The fact was that Annenkov was an ataman-separatist like ataman Semenov in Transbaikalia, did not reckon with anyone and ruled Semirechye with the help of mass terror. He mercilessly destroyed not only the Bolsheviks and the Reds, but also crushed any resistance. The talented organizer of white partisans, Annenkov, in December 1918, at the head of his Partisan division, was sent to Semirechye to fight peasant rebels of the Lepsinsky and Kopalsky counties. However, the pacification of the uprising dragged on for almost a year. Annenkov, despite the instructions of Kolchak, did not want to leave the Semirechye and strengthen the White East Front with his division in the crucial period of the summer of 1919 and continued the war with the peasants of Semirechye. In the most cruel way, the chieftain drowned in the blood the uprisings of Russian peasants, destroying entire villages. Numerous wild atrocities committed by the Annenkovites led to the fact that Annenkov’s volunteers were very notorious even among the White Guards themselves.

In December 1919, the Separate Semirechye Army was formed in Semirechye, with a strength of over 7 thousand bayonets and sabers. Thus, in late 1919 - early 1920, Annenkov in Semirechye was in the position of a local tsar, who, if it was in his interests, formally subordinated to the power of the Siberian government, and if not, acted at his own discretion. He did not tolerate obvious rivals and tried to eliminate.

The Annenkovites also treated the refugees from the Dutov army accordingly, and committed numerous robberies and violence against them. They considered themselves the owners of the Semirechye and did not want to endure the aliens at home. The Dutovites were dangerous as an organized armed force. The Annenkovites, who at that time lived quite calmly, accused the Dutovites that they had brought typhus with failure, brought the Reds on the tail, which led to the emergence of a new front. Also, the Dutovites were accused of complete decay, loss of discipline and fighting efficiency. So Annenkov himself in his order in March 1920 wrote: “So, the two-year struggle in Semirechye gave sad results, thanks only to the arrival of such“ refugee guest performers ”as Dutov, who came with ragged, hungry and bloated people, taking with him a lot of women, but without shells and ammunition, bringing typhoid and collapse with them. ”

Later, already at the trial, Annenkov noted that the Orenburg Army “was completely incapacitated. These were decaying units, rapidly rolling towards the Chinese border. Together with them was a decadent mood in all parts of versts at 900 along the front. In addition, most people were sick with typhoid. In fact, the whole army was a continuous typhoid infirmary. Not a single cavalry unit was riding, everyone rode on a sleigh ... "

Annenkov refused to supply the Dutovites with ammunition, although they together opposed the Reds. Annenkovtsi also refused to issue food and forage to the Dutovites. On the other hand, the butchery manners of the Annenkovites were deeply disgusted by the Orenburg Cossacks, although they themselves were used to war and blood. Later, already in China, General Bakich wrote that “the method of command and order in the partisan units of Ataman Annenkov, where the basic requirements of military service were not respected, law and order were denied, incredible atrocities and robberies were allowed, as in relation to the civilian population of villages and villages , as well as in relation to the ranks of my detachment, which, due to illness, which could not fend for themselves, provoked bitterness against the partisans of General Annenkov from the ranks of my detachment. "

Parts of the Semirechensky army of Annenkov and Bakich’s detachment occupied the front between Lake Balkhash and the mountains of Tarbagatai. In March 1920, the Red Army launched an offensive from Semipalatinsk along the entire Semirechye front. Annenkov’s army was defeated. Annenkov himself with the remnants of the troops fled to China, in Xinjiang. Before this, Annenkov tricked and disarmed soldiers who did not want to flee to China (mass shooting near Lake Alakol). After this massacre, the entire once-thousands of Annenkov’s army was reduced to several hundred complete “scumbags”. Also, the Annenkovites once again “distinguished themselves” by torture, violence and killings over the families of white officers and refugees who retreated with the Cossacks. In response, the Orenburg Regiment named after General Dutov separated from the Annenkov division and went to Bakich, who also retreated to China. In 1926, the Chinese extradited Annenkov to the Soviet authorities, he was tried and executed in 1927.

General Bakich also sent his troops to China. With him, up to 12 thousand people left for China. At the same time, Bakich asked the Chinese authorities to place the Annenkovites separately from his detachment at a distance of at least 150 miles. Otherwise, a clash between the Annenkovites and the Dutovites is possible. Dutov, with a personal detachment and civilian refugees, also fled to China. On February 7, 1921, Ataman Dutov was killed by agents of the Cheka during a special operation. After the death of Dutov, Bakich led the Orenburg detachment, but its number dropped sharply already in 1920. Half of the refugees returned to their homeland, some went to the Far East, others scattered throughout China. In 1921, Bakich’s detachment was defeated in Mongolia and surrendered to the Mongol forces. In 1922, the general was extradited to the Soviet authorities, he was tried and shot.


Boris Vladimirovich Annenkov (1889-1927), commander of the Separate Semirechensk Army
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
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  1. apro
    apro 24 December 2019 05: 31
    +3
    And the Cossacks are exactly Russian ??? exactly the Orthodox ???
    Disciplined army of Christ ....
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2019 05: 57
      +9
      Very often there is an opinion of the "Cossacks" themselves that they are a separate nation.
      1. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 08: 23
        +12
        Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
        Very often there is an opinion of the "Cossacks" themselves that they are a separate nation.
        Absolutely right! Below in the commentary to Bulkhokhrust olgovich, I pointed this out. Cossacks did not identify with Russia. Yes, they faithfully served the tsar, but served because they had liberties that other non-Cossack regions of Russia did not have. It was the contempt of the Cossacks for the inhabitants of central Russia that made it possible to use them as punitive units to destroy popular riots.
        By the way, the attitude of the Cossacks to other nationalities is shown very well in Sholokhov's "Quiet Don". He knew the mood of the Cossacks very well.
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 16: 31
          +2
          P.S. And did anyone pay attention to Annenkov’s form in the last photo? It seems that he from the distant past is competing with our sewing-demobilization troops ... laughing
          The embroidery on the cuffs is not clear, I will not say anything about the "American chevron" on the right shoulder. Some kind of female belt with some kind of spillikins is not clear. Yes, and with a cross of misunderstanding, a cross like St. George's, but the ribbon is not St. George's. In general, some kind of circus tent clown. And the face is not disfigured by intelligence.
        2. Victorio
          Victorio 24 December 2019 18: 16
          -4
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Cossacks did not identify with Russia.

          ===
          in order to draw conclusions, it would be necessary to study the material, and not just rely on a well-known literary work
      2. Red Bogatyr
        Red Bogatyr 24 December 2019 08: 25
        +2
        and now, for some, such thoughts slip through ... everyone wants to be special)
      3. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 24 December 2019 16: 46
        +3
        Yes.
        "Since ancient times, three nationalities have lived on the Don land and are the indigenous citizens of the Don region - Don Cossacks, Kalmyks and Russian peasants.
        ... the Russian people called us (Cossacks - S.M.) ... executioners, guardsmen and nagazniks ...
        Peasants, with few exceptions, were Bolsheviks ...
        Cossacks defended their Cossack rights from the Russians ... "(P.N. Krasnov)
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 24 December 2019 07: 57
      -15
      Quote: apro
      And the Cossacks are exactly Russian ??? exactly the Orthodox ???

      Is it really not visible for the goals of the struggle?

      Cossacks and Ataman Dutov himself fought FOR RUSSIA: for RUSSIAN Faithful, RUSSIAN Semipalatinsk, RUSSIAN Guryev, RUSSIAN Uralsk, etc.

      The Reds fought- FOR: separation from Russia 2,2 million km2 -creation of never existing ... Kakhakhstan and the transformation of Russian regions into non-Russian: Verny became .... Almaty, Semipalatinsk ... families, Uralsk ... yelled, etc. What and made successfully. Russians became outcasts in their lands.

      Now it’s clear who is Russian, who is not?

      The Russian general Ataman Dutov is a true example of a Russian patriot who fought for it to the end: he was born in a wagon during a military campaign, a volunteer veteran of the Russian Military Forces and WWI, a front-line soldier, several times seriously wounded, an order bearer, a popularly elected deputy of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly, a favorite of the people, killed by the enemies of Russia.

      Interestingly, the author ceased to mention the Red commanders, it's just some kind of impersonal troops without commanders.

      Although it’s understandable: almost everyone turned out to be Japanese, German spies, traitors to the Motherland, the Nazis, and they were destroyed without knowing where ... The problem, yes ....
      1. apro
        apro 24 December 2019 08: 07
        +9
        Quote: Olgovich
        Is it really not visible for the goals of the struggle?

        Judge by deeds. By deeds ...
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 December 2019 08: 10
          -11
          Quote: apro
          Judge by deeds. By deeds ...

          So, and I - WHAT ?! belay

          Cases and look: at the borders of Russia and the former Russian cities: the so-called Almaty, families, screaming, etc.

          Now it’s clear who is Russian and who is not?
          1. apro
            apro 24 December 2019 08: 14
            +4
            On what borders? More specifically pzhlst ... USSR or Russia?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 December 2019 09: 20
              -8
              Quote: apro
              On what borders? More specifically pzhlst ... USSR or Russia?

              What are you clowning about, because it is clearly written ALREADY twice: RUSSIA's borders, set in red in 1917-1940 yyy.
              We live by them!
              Take a look at the window, finally!
              1. apro
                apro 24 December 2019 09: 29
                +13
                Dear I understand everything perfectly. But some clarification is required .. the borders of the USSR were finally established in 1945 with changes in Europe and the Far East, and these borders I was personally fine with. Personally, what happened in 1991 is an anti-Soviet coup and the Bolsheviks went to it in 1917 1922 years are irrelevant.
                What the anti-Soviet coups wanted they got ...
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 10: 05
                  +6
                  Quote: apro
                  and what happened in 1991 is an anti-Soviet coup and the Bolsheviks of 1917 1922 have nothing to do with it.

                  They have Oleg. The USSR fell apart precisely on the borders of the Soviet republics defined by Lenin. Exactly the same danger threatens the Russian Federation in the event of a global rebellion - disintegration along federal borders, it is they that are incisions to the supposedly whole country. And that’s exactly what this is now going on, due to the recent policy of the current government.
                  RI was an integral state. hi
                  1. Alexander Suvorov
                    Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 11: 49
                    +7
                    Ingvar 72 (Igor)
                    They have Oleg. The USSR fell apart precisely on the borders of the Soviet republics defined by Lenin.
                    But did Lenin also have a hand in the separation of Finland, Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic states, Central Asia, Transcaucasia, Siberia, the Far East in 1918-1919? Did he even draw borders then? Or all the same combined what else could be combined?
                    It is not necessary to paint the USSR as a patchwork quilt, but RI as an integral territory. Everything that the USSR received, all this was the inheritance of the Republic of Ingushetia, including the division by autonomy. Even then, Ukraine was already a complete "walk-field", where each village was an independent fiefdom of some local father. And throughout the territory of the former Republic of Ingushetia it was no better. Krasnov stood for the separation of the Don Army and the transition to the protectorate of Germany. It was about the same in the Kuban. The same can be said about the rest of the Cossacks. They have already said about Ukraine, with Finland, Poland and the Baltic states, everything was also very clear, the Transcaucasus there, Central Asia there. In general, the complete collapse of the former RI, not without the help of whites and their curators, the interventionists.
                    The Reds kept Russia from collapse at that time. If not for them, then Russia would not have survived even within its current borders!
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 11: 52
                      +2
                      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                      Everything that the USSR received, all this was a legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia, including the division by autonomy.

                      There were no autonomies with the right to exit.
                      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                      the Reds kept Russia from collapse at that time.

                      Yes, but they also laid a time bomb, which even Stalin failed to neutralize.
                      1. Alexander Suvorov
                        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 12: 13
                        +7
                        Ingvar 72 (Igor)
                        There were no autonomies with the right to exit.
                        And how did this keep RI from collapse?
                        Yes, but they also laid a time bomb, which even Stalin failed to neutralize.
                        This mine was laid not by the Reds, but by the very history of the formation of Russia. No need to blame from a sore head for a healthy one.
                        As an example, you can take Georgia. They themselves asked to join the Republic of Ingushetia, and in 1918 they were one of the first to run to separate. And how did the lack of autonomy prevent them? They quietly decided to take up territories of Ossetia and Abkhazia that they never owned.
                        Stalin’s mistake was indeed to annex these territories to Georgia, here I agree.
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 12: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                        And how did this keep RI from collapse?

                        No way, but countries with administrative borders are more at risk of collapse. That is why the Ukrainian authorities are so clinging to unitarity.
                        And the history of the formation of Russia has nothing to do with the collapse of the country, the risks were scratched on glass precisely after the revolution.
                      3. Alexander Suvorov
                        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 12: 27
                        +2
                        Ingvar 72 (Igor)
                        No way, but countries with administrative borders are more at risk of collapse.
                        I do not agree! Take Germany, for example. I think it makes no sense to tell how many small lands and principalities this state was woven? There are almost a hundred of them, and nevertheless Germany is not in a hurry to fall apart. And mind you, in 1918, after the revolution, Germany did not even think of falling apart. So, probably, it’s not just administrative boundaries that matter ?!
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 12: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                        Take Germany, for example.

                        Not a true example. The split of Germany is not beneficial to anyone, and all "progressive mankind" dreams of a split in Russia. laughing
                        And yes, of course it’s NOT ONLY within administrative boundaries.
                      5. Alexander Suvorov
                        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 12: 36
                        +5
                        Ingvar 72 (Igor)
                        Not a true example.
                        On the contrary, it’s very true, because you yourself answered:
                        The split of Germany is not beneficial to anyone, and all "progressive mankind" dreams of a split in Russia.
                        It is precisely that all "progressive mankind", led by the USA, Britain, France, Japan and Germany, dreamed of a split. They did everything to make this split take place, and not without the help of whites. It was with the hands of the whites that the interventionists tried to strangle those who opposed this split, i.e. red. That's all!
                        You are essentially blocking out those who fought for the split and plunder of Russia and are trying to pour mud on those who actively opposed this!
                      6. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 12: 47
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                        You are essentially blocking out those who fought for the split and plunder of Russia and are trying to pour mud on those who actively opposed this!

                        These are your thoughts. The communist men, the site’s old-timers, know my point of view on the revolution — many copies are broken. But on Stalin’s personality, my disagreements with them end, and in my opinion this should be stopped, and not spit in the past with saliva of different colors. hi
                      7. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 24 December 2019 16: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And yes, of course it’s NOT ONLY within administrative boundaries.

                        And not even that much.
                      8. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 25 December 2019 03: 54
                        +1
                        Well, yes, France and Britain were dreaming and dreaming about a united Germany.
                      9. Pilat2009
                        Pilat2009 24 December 2019 22: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                        And mind you, in 1918, after the revolution, Germany didn’t even think about falling apart

                        there the population is less international
                      10. Flatter
                        Flatter 24 December 2019 13: 38
                        +2
                        Yes, but they also laid a time bomb, which even Stalin failed to neutralize.
                        Nationalism flourished on the outskirts of the empire and autonomies after the collapse, as well as during the collapse of the USSR. But the Bolsheviks were able to create governments of supporters in these entities, to win over, even as republics with the rights of states. strong arguments. The Bolsheviks preserved the territory of the empire. Lenin said that the national question was very complicated and far from being resolved. A mine was laid by Russian tsars who went on campaigns to Asia, Europe and the East, by the way about land mines
                  2. apro
                    apro 24 December 2019 12: 18
                    +2
                    Ingvar of the USSR didn’t break up. It was destroyed. And borders are not a legal definition, but an opportunity to assert one’s rights to the territory by all means .... how much such funds and borders were enough.
                    Ri an integral state, yes, which did not stop him from first destroying himself and then disintegrating ...
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 12: 23
                      +3
                      Quote: apro
                      The USSR did not break up. It was destroyed.

                      Yes, it’s clear Oleg, always someone is to blame for the collapse. And yes, this can be called destruction, but as I wrote above, it is easier to break up a state with an internal division. hi
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 24 December 2019 13: 16
                      -9
                      Quote: apro
                      Ri an integral state yes. Which did not stop him from first destroying himself then break up..

                      What are you carrying? Can you even know the history of YOUR country?

                      ALL INDEPENDENCIES, including the first Finland, are declared AFTER the thief, on the basis of the so-called stupid. decrees on peace and RECOGNIZED so-called. "owls with power."
                      Quote: apro
                      Ingvar of the USSR did not fall apart. But was destroy

                      Yes? And with whom did he fought in 1991 in World War II, recall.
                      1. Minato2020
                        Minato2020 24 December 2019 15: 57
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        Quote: apro
                        Ingvar of the USSR did not break up, but was destroyed
                        Yes? And with whom did he fought in 1991 in World War II, recall.


                        Cold war 1946-1991
                        Who won the cold war - the United States and NATO allies.

                        December 25, 1991 - President D. Bush announced the end of the Cold War and congratulated his compatriots on their victory in it.
                        In January 1992, George W. Bush declared: "With the help of the Lord God, America triumphed in the Cold War!"
                        His glee at the end of the confrontation was not shared by many residents of the countries of the former USSR, where the time of economic upheaval and criminal chaos began.

                        https://dubki-nk.ru/tehnika/holodnaya-vojna-vkrattse-prichiny-etapy-itogi.html
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 07: 31
                        -7
                        Quote: Minato2020
                        Cold war 1946-1991
                        Who won the cold war - the United States and NATO allies.

                        No carpet bombardments, no nuclear explosions. What is the problem?
                      3. Minato2020
                        Minato2020 12 September 2021 17: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: Minato2020

                        Cold war 1946-1991
                        Who won the cold war - the United States and NATO allies.

                        No carpet bombing, no nuclear explosions. What is the problem?


                        Therefore, there is no problem in pumping natural resources from the defeated country.
                        Read more in the book "Economic Killer" by John Perkins.
                      4. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 24 December 2019 17: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ALL INDEPENDENCIES, including the first Finland, are declared AFTER the thief, on the basis of the so-called stupid. decrees on peace and RECOGNIZED so-called. "owls with power."

                        But contemporaries say:
                        "On March 22, the Provisional Government issued a decree abolishing all national and religious restrictions in Russia. ... for a number of nationalities - for Ukrainians, Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians, etc. - this act became the starting point for the rapid development of the separatist movement, which had long been in its infancy and the creation of independent national states on the ruins of the Russian Empire.
                        In Ukraine, this process came to light very sharply and sharply, giving an example for Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Armenia, etc. The political struggle in Kiev in the spring and summer of 1917 was marked by such a rapid growth of the Ukrainian national movement that it started on March 17, 1917 - first as a purely national public organization uniting all Ukrainians - the Ukrainian Central Council ...
                        The Ukrainian "national liberation movement" in the first months of 1917 developed by leaps and bounds. The Central Council enjoyed great success among Ukrainian peasants and soldiers.
                        The most zealous “independents” demanded to end long and “unnecessary” negotiations with the Provisional Government and to withdraw the Ukrainian soldiers from the front, i.e. to bare the front.
                        The separatist policy of the Rada, at first more disguised, and then more and more frank, eventually turned into the formula: “Enough of the Great Russians! Three hundred years they dominated us! Get away from Ukraine! Long live independent Ukraine! ”
                        The main rostrum and mouthpiece of the Ukrainian separatist movement was the Ukrainian military congresses: at them the preaching of separatism began to be heard louder and louder and spread more and more widely among the soldiers and peasants. Relying on these military congresses, they wished to end the war at all costs and as soon as possible, in order to "divide the land of the pans." The Rada gradually ceased to reckon with the power of the Kiev Executive Committee in Kiev, and in Petrograd - with the power of the Provisional Government, declaring everywhere since May 1917 that the Ukrainian people recognize only one power over themselves, namely, the power of the Central Rada. "(Poletika) ...

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        RECOGNIZED so-called. "owls with power."

                        And they were not (sort of like!) Recognized by the white authorities - so what? Did it help a lot? No, it turned out just the opposite. Despite the fact that whites, as some say, were supposedly "legitimate power", while the Soviet one was not.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 07: 42
                        -7
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        The Rada gradually ceased to reckon with the power of the Kiev Executive Committee in Kiev, and in Petrograd - with the power of the Provisional Government, declaring everywhere since May 1917 that the Ukrainian people recognize only one power over themselves, namely, the power of the Central Rada "

                        Spit on nobody’s chosen joy and sweet fabrications: there are FACTS:

                        1. NO ONE OF INDEPENDENCE before the THIEF-NOT announced, on the contrary: EVERYTHING declared to be a part of RUSSIA.
                        2. The Bolsheviks in the "manifesto to the ukran. People" RECOGNIZED that he did not have any independence before the Thief, but the Bolsheviks give FULL independence
                        3. Nazi. historian Savchenko : "Before the thief, power in Ukraine belonged to the INTERIM RULER"


                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And they were not (sort of like!) Recognized by the white authorities - so what? Did it help a lot? No, it turned out just the opposite. Despite the fact that whites, as some say, were supposedly "legitimate power", while the Soviet one was not.

                        The white nationalists dealt lightly with the nationalists, but the red came together with those.

                        These are just FACTS.
                      6. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 08: 52
                        -2
                        Ukazi. historian Savchenko: "Before the thief, power in Ukraine belonged to the TEMPORARY RULER"

                        Where is Savchenko do not tell me? And then I want to look at the context.
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 10: 12
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Where is Savchenko do not tell me? ..

                        No.
                        "By herself, by herself!" (C) hi
                      8. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 10: 30
                        -1
                        Oh, so this is from the same sources on which you recently wrote on this site that Ivan Franko is "gay"?
                        laughing laughing tongue
                        I like it so much when you immediately start writing - yourself, yourself.
                        I can immediately imagine how, for example, when defending a dissertation, the commission asks a question, and to itself, itself lol
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 11: 13
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Oh, so this is from the same sources on which you recently wrote on this site that Ivan Franko is "gay"?

                        Savchenko source. What else do you want ?! belay request
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        I like it so much when you immediately start writing - yourself, yourself.
                        Immediately imagine how in defense of the dissertationFor example, the commission asks a question, and she herself, herself

                        You seem to be lost in space and time ?! belay
                      10. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 11: 20
                        -1
                        Savchenko source. What else do you want ?!

                        Well then, I say that you are deceiving visitors to this forum.
                        You cannot document your information.
                        Which you presented as direct speech.
                      11. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 11: 52
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        well then I saythat you are deceiving visitors to this forum.
                        You cannot document your information.
                        Which you presented as direct speech.

                        But does it really matter to me WHAT you say, given the reasons for this talking room:
                        1) ignorance
                        2) inability to use search engines? belay request

                        I have already repeatedly cited it. And here again ...

                        Record:
                        Despite self-proclamation autonomy Ukraine, back in June 1917, this autonomy is actually still did not exist until the end of October 1917As real power in the so-called South-Western provinces of Russia held Provisional Government of the Russian Republicand.
                        Savchenko V.A. Twelve Wars for Ukraine
                      12. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 11: 55
                        0
                        Thank you, you could have done it right away.
                      13. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 11: 59
                        +1
                        Only what he wrote only confirms that all indivisibility was based only on the direct presence of troops in separate territories.
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 13: 21
                        -4
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Only what he wrote only confirms that all indivisibility was based only on the direct presence of troops in separate territories.

                        Exactly!
                        Odessa and Nikolaev, Yuzovka and Lugansk with Kiev were torn to break free from "damned" Russia and only the occupation troops prevented them. belay

                        WHAT ARE YOU SPEAKING ABOUT?! It is clearly written, recognized by the Nationalists themselves, power in RUSSIA !.

                        Few? Read the SNK manifestos to the Uk people, where they recognize: Ukraine did not even have any autonomy during the EaP.
                      15. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 25 December 2019 11: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        no one's chosen

                        But recognized by many. In contrast to the VP.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        White dealt with the nationalists lightly,

                        Yudenich with Estonians, for example. Or with the Finns. lol

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the Reds performed together.

                        More precisely: White opposed them all.
                      16. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 12: 09
                        -4
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But by many recognized. In contrast to the VP.

                        By anyone. VP - recognized by the WORLD.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yudenich with Estonians, for example. Or with the Finns.

                        So yours helped them. Without you, everything was tip-top.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        More precisely: White opposed them all.

                        Right without clarification.
                      17. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 12: 24
                        0
                        By anyone.

                        Here, just the whole world does not care, these are the internal affairs of the country, not the world. "Illegitimate" Soviet power was accepted as a result? And the Rada would have been accepted. And anyone, too. And that about "the whole world with us" has already been heard somewhere recently. And the world, by and large, does not care.
                        But inside the country it is just important who is ready to be whose object of power.
                      18. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 25 December 2019 14: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        By anyone. VP - recognized by the WORLD.

                        A lot of people. And the whole world later recognized the Bolsheviks.
                      19. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 December 2019 07: 41
                        -3
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        A lot of people.

                        By anyone.
                      20. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 25 December 2019 11: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Spit on sweet fabrications: there are FACTS:

                        Exactly. And the facts are the essence: Russia as a state "faded" if not "in two days", but in a matter of months in the spring-autumn of 1917.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 24 December 2019 10: 36
                  -12
                  Quote: apro
                  Dear I understand everything perfectly. But some clarification is required .. the borders of the USSR were finally established in 1945 with changes

                  TODAY state. Russian borders are set in 1917-1940 g.

                  TENS of millions of Russians and their cities remained outside the border of Russia already in 1918-1940 and from them they were forcibly molded into the so-called. "Ukrainians" and so on. To prevent this from happening, they simply did not need to be included in the USSR, the USSR, etc. Doesn't it get there?

                  And those who have done this are irrelevant ?! What is going on with you? belay request
                  1. apro
                    apro 24 December 2019 12: 13
                    +6
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    And those who have done this are irrelevant ?! What is going on with you?

                    And what is going on with you ??? once again. Today the Russian Federation within its borders is the result of the anti-Soviet coup of 1991. the coupsmen knew very well what they were doing.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 24 December 2019 13: 20
                      -6
                      Quote: apro
                      And what is going on with you ??? again.today rf within its borders it the result of the anti-Soviet coup of 1991Oh yeah.

                      What are you talking about ?! belay negative

                      Take the textbook for the FOURTH grade and finally find out that today's borders of Russia are set in 1917-1940 yyy (mostly).

                      In 1991, NO ONE touched these borders, NO ONE! Russia did not have up to 91 others!

                      or show them off!
                      1. apro
                        apro 24 December 2019 13: 48
                        +3
                        And what are you talking about? The USSR was destroyed. The winners decided to disperse in their quarters. How they decided and did so. What is wrong? They do not care about the laws of the USSR. The interests of the people too. The main communism was buried ... together with the people. If there are forces to defend their borders. so they go as far as enough power. u rf. after whitewash ... so the hosts of the rf it suits.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 24 December 2019 15: 04
                        -6
                        Quote: apro
                        And what are you talking about? The USSR was destroyed. The winners decided to disperse in their quarters. How they decided and did so. What is wrong? They do not care about the laws of the USSR. The interests of the people too. The main communism was buried ... together with the people. If there are forces to defend their borders. so they go as far as enough power. u rf. after whitewash ... so the hosts of the rf it suits.

                        I carry the FACTS. You are incoherent, yes.
                        ONCE AGAIN: disprove this:
                        The current borders of Russia were established in 1917-1940 (mainly).

                        In 1991, NO ONE touched these borders, NO ONE! Russia did not have up to 91 others!

                        or show them off!


                        You can not? So do not bother with the "destruction" of the borders of Russia in 1991
                      3. apro
                        apro 24 December 2019 15: 23
                        +1
                        Once again, what does the USSR have to do with the Russian Federation? Do you need the border of a flag in your hands. A drum on your neck ....
                        Since its inception, the USSR has established those borders that it could defend and those that it needed. Does Russia need other borders?
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 07: 47
                        -4
                        Quote: apro
                        Once again, what does the USSR have to do with Russia?

                        belay lol
                        "None", yes! He just created BORDERS for her, but no ...
                        Quote: apro
                        you need the border of the flag in your hands. a drum on the neck ....

                        what nonsense? request
                        Quote: apro
                        Since its inception, the USSR has established those borders that it could defend and those that it needed. Does Russia need other borders?

                        Not needed. But the Russian Federation has no relation to the borders of the USSR.
                        Her USSR cut completely different.
                      5. apro
                        apro 25 December 2019 07: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "None", yes!

                        So what's the problem?
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 10: 14
                        -2
                        Quote: apro
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "None", yes!

                        So what's the problem?

                        belay
                        IN QUOTES. Can not see? belay
                      7. apro
                        apro 25 December 2019 13: 18
                        0
                        I don’t understand. Does it mean? And when the Russian Federation left the USSR, what did she think about? Did she raise questions?
              2. Looking for
                Looking for 25 December 2019 15: 07
                -2
                legally present-day Russia was formed only in 1991. From 1922 to 1991 there were no borders of Russia. But the borders of the UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC-USSR.
          2. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 09: 14
            +8
            Olgovich (Andrey)
            Cases and see: on the borders of Russia
            Mr. Liar, the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia with Finland and the Kingdom of Poland was 19 square vert. Convert square versts to square kilometers and get 155 sq. Km. The territory of the USSR = 588 21 799 sq. Km., I.e. more than the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia by 059 square kilometers !!! So stop lying already. In addition, the territories of Finland and Poland were part of the Republic of Ingushetia purely nominally and were not an object of pride, but a real burden for the budget of the Republic of Ingushetia, since they demanded funds for their maintenance without giving the Republic of Ingushetia anything but Polish ambition and Finnish contempt!
            And the USSR, before the arrival of the traitor-Khrushchev, completely controlled the countries of the Eastern Bloc, which RI could not even dream about in a nightmare!
            What do you say Mr. Liar? You’ll be spinning again, like in a frying pan or stupidly keep silent?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 December 2019 09: 48
              -5
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              Mr. Liar


              Ignorant, cut the nose-knot on the nose:
              CHANGE OF THE TERRITORY OF THE RSFSR
              Years Area—
              million km2

              1922 ............. 20,8 million km2
              1925 ................. 20,0 million km2
              1940 ............. 16,8 million km2

              istmat.info/files/uploads/18147/narhoz_rsfsr_1956_predislovie_2.pd

              Atl OFFICIAL reference book of the USSR, if that.


              Russia DECREASED for the unfortunate 18 years 4 million km2, at THIRTEEN Germany! These are today's borders.

              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              . The territory of the USSR = 22 402 200 sq. Km., I.e. more than the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia by 603 square kilometers !!!

              So call this one FRANCEattached to territory of the Republic of Ingushetia with Poland, Finland, which supposedly became the USSR, lol
              1. Alexander Suvorov
                Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 10: 24
                +7
                Olgovich (Andrey)
                CHANGE OF THE TERRITORY OF THE RSFSR
                Years Area—
                million km2
                1922 ............. 20,8 million km2
                1925 ................. 20,0 million km2
                1940 ............. 16,8 million km2
                Atl OFFICIAL reference book of the USSR, if that.

                DO NOT LIE !!!
                Change in the territory of the USSR
                Russia in 1917 (Without Khiva and Bukhara) 22256,2 thousand km
                According to the peace treaties from 1918 to 1920, it regained to independent states formed as a result of the overthrow of the autocracy and the victory of the Great October Socialist Revolution. 808,5 thousand km
                Including
                384,3 thousand km to Finland
                to Poland 259,1 thousand km
                to Lithuania 52,8 thousand km.
                to Latvia 65,8 thousand km.
                to Estonia 46,6 thousand km.
                According to the 1921 peace treaty, 26,1 thousand km went to Turkey (Kara Pashalyk).
                Romania was rejected as a result of the occupation of Bessarabia in 1918 by 45,1 thousand km.
                USSR within the borders of 1921-1923 21376,5 thousand km
                It became part of the USSR in 1924 as a result of the formation of the People's Soviet Republics and the demarcation in Central Asia on a national basis of 297,4 thousand km.
                including
                Bukhara People's Soviet Republic 233,4 thousand km
                Khorezm People's Soviet Republic 64,0 thousand km.
                USSR in the borders from 1924 to September 17, 1939 21673,9 thousand km
                It became part of the USSR after September 17, 1939, only 696,3 thousand km
                including those adopted in accordance with the declarations of the National Assembly of Western Ukraine, and Western Belarus, the Lithuanian, Latvian Sejm and the State Duma of Estonia
                Western Ukraine and Western Belarus (excluding the areas that left Poland under the 1945 agreement) 172,7 thousand km
                Lithuania 59,8 thousand km
                Latvia 65,7 thousand km
                Estonia 46,6 thousand km
                Part of Finland transferred to the USSR according to the peace treaty 54,5 thousand km
                Bessarabia returned by Romania 45,1 thousand km
                The northern part of Bukovina, transferred to the USSR by Romania 5,8 thousand km
                Transcarpathian Ukraine, reunited with Ukraine, in accordance with the wishes expressed by the population of Transcarpathian Ukraine and on the basis of a friendly agreement between the USSR and the Czechoslovak Republic 12,8 thousand km.
                from Germany 17,9 thousand km
                Tuva People's Republic, adopted as part of the USSR in 1944, 172,1 thousand km
                Included in the USSR in 1945
                South Sakhalin 33,4 thousand km
                Kuril Islands 10,0 thousand km
                USSR in the modern borders of 22370,2 thousand km
                By the way, RI also lost territory, so there is no need to play here in the time frame. And then I’ll remember the shameful loss of Alaska!
                Liar, liar and liar again !!!
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 24 December 2019 10: 58
                  -10
                  Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                  DO NOT LIE !!!

                  Why yell? request
                  You are not talking with your Napoleon and Macedon, but with normal people.
                  You are given the OFFICIAL directory: "National Economy of the RSFSR (1956) (Statistical Yearbook) State Statistical Publishing House, Moscow, 1957"
                  What, besides a scream, can you refute it? Nothing? So yes

                  Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                  South Sakhalin 33,4 thousand km
                  Kuril Islands 10,0 thousand km
                  USSR in the modern borders of 22370,2 thousand km
                  By the way, RI also lost territory, so there is no need to play here in the time frame. And then I’ll remember the shameful loss of Alaska!
                  Liar, liar and liar again!!!

                  Wow, you have a tantrum already! belay request

                  The reason is clear: from, um, lol powerlessness lol , show FRANCE annexed to the territory of Ingushetia, which "became", in your opinion, the USSR.

                  Suvorov, ask Napoleon to help! request

                  PS I don’t touch you anymore, otherwise I’m anxious for you, answer later ... request ,
                  1. Alexander Suvorov
                    Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 11: 07
                    +4
                    Olgovich (Andrey)
                    You are given an OFFICIAL reference book: "The National Economy of the RSFSR (1956) (Statistical Yearbook) State Statistical Publishing House, Moscow, 1957"
                    And what is written in it ?!
                    Open read:
                    The territory of the USSR - 22 403 thousand sq. Km. for April 1956 !!!
                    There were NO false tsiferok you mentioned there and could not be, Mr. lied more than once! The Internet is not the only one you know how to use.
                    Wow, you have a tantrum already!
                    Rather, you.
                    The reason is clear: from, um, lol of impotence lol, to show FRANCE annexed to the territory of Ingushetia, which, in your opinion, "became" the USSR.
                    What kind of nonsense?
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 24 December 2019 16: 03
                      +7
                      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                      Open read:
                      The territory of the USSR - 22 403 thousand sq. Km. for April 1956 !!!
                      There were NO false tsiferok you mentioned there and could not be, Mr. lied more than once!

                      They are there. Just Olgovich, due to his stupidity, or for some other reason (for example: a training manual and a good increase in pension yes), singles out the RSFSR from the USSR and compares the territory of this RSU with the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia, taken out of the Union.

                      PS Olgovich never lies, in the literal sense. He lies, distorts and juggles, quite real facts. But he has a weakness - he often does not remember the sources of his "FACTS" (c) laughing .
                      1. Alexander Suvorov
                        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 16: 12
                        +3
                        HanTengri (Igor)
                        PS Olgovich does not lie, in the literal sense. He cheats, twists and manipulates, quite real facts.
                        Igor hi ! Yes, I know that he likes to take it out of context and shove it in ... well, in general, not in the right place. Our local "historian" Shpakovsky is also guilty of the same. Using access to archives, he approaches them very selectively and pulls out only what is beneficial to him, and at the moment. It seems like he did not lie, but if you look, it turned out to be complete filth. This is how they manifest themselves in everything. Tellingly, come back right now to the USSR with the censorship of the CPSU, all of them will quickly sing praises in the other direction. I hate such people!
                      2. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 24 December 2019 16: 55
                        +4
                        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                        Igor! Yes, I know that he loves to take it out of context and shove it up ... well, in general, not where it should be.

                        I don't understand why you are trying to explain something to this creature? He needs to ask questions, such as "Olgovich, do these" FACTS "(c) have a source, or have they been dictated to you by cockroaches again, out of your head?" The source, if he remembers it, in 80% of cases will turn out to be odious ROVS propaganda, and ROVS are accomplices of the fascists. What other counter-arguments are needed? In the remaining 20% ​​of cases, this will be quite normal statistics, after carefully studying which, it will be possible to reasonably poke a creature with its muzzle in its own "cuddly" one.
                      3. Alexander Suvorov
                        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 17: 01
                        +2
                        HanTengri (Igor)
                        I don’t understand why you are trying to explain something to this being?
                        Yes, just for fun. Sometimes I am pleased to watch how he wriggles like in a frying pan. Well, sometimes you need to patrol it, otherwise the guy relaxes when he does not receive answers.
                        Well, and then, there is little hope that young people read us at least sometimes, so that their brains are not sprained, as some have, they have to answer an obvious heresy from behind the glass.
                      4. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 24 December 2019 17: 05
                        +3
                        I say: ask him questions. This is worse for him than any objection. I got him so badly that he, under a far-fetched pretext, "banned" me in communication. laughing
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 08: 09
                        -4
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        I got him so badly that he, under a far-fetched pretext, "banned" me in communication


                        You got me your endless obscene and endless mention of excrement,rather than silly questions.

                        You this and do not deny yourself.

                        Tell your "colleague" about this, why are you ashamed?

                        An elementary and natural sense of cleanliness and squeamishness, respectively, makes you avoid communication with you, so as not to get dirty.
                        This is natural. request
              2. BAI
                BAI 24 December 2019 10: 52
                +6
                chop on the nose

                Do not bring in here Romanian. In Russian, either simply "hack to death" or "tie a knot for memory." It is physically (not figuratively) impossible to hack a knot on the nose.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 24 December 2019 12: 05
                  -6
                  Quote: BAI
                  No need to bring Romanian here. In Russian, either simply "hack to death" or "tie a knot for memory." It is physically (not figuratively) impossible to cut any nodule on the nose.

                  What nonsense ?! belay
                  Let's nose and I'll show you everything! yes
                  1. BAI
                    BAI 24 December 2019 15: 26
                    +4
                    If you have a nose - like the trunk of an elephant, then you can knit yourself as much as you like, but do not judge others by yourself. But you still need to know the Russian language.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 25 December 2019 08: 01
                      -5
                      Quote: BAI
                      If you have a nose like an elephant’s trunk, you can knit yourself any number but do not judge others by yourself..


                      You sense of the saying, apparently do not understand, the Russian language is not native? request

                      For REMEMBERING - they knit a knot or chop on the nose.

                      Therefore, I do not need this.

                      but some here require both procedures. (one procedure is not enough.)

                      Russian craftsmen made an ax with Kizhi, and even made a knot on their nose in general-zilch.
                      Quote: BAI
                      But you still need to know the Russian language.

                      This is yes: in one sentence THREE mistakes are made, it must, of course, be able to:
                      Russian language overabout, all-soand, know
                      . Remember: the introductory word is highlighted with a COMA yes
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 08: 54
                        +1
                        You sense of the saying, apparently do not understand, the Russian language is not native? request

                        For REMEMBERING - they knit a knot or chop on the nose.

                        Show me in the dictionary of idioms of the Russian language "hack a knot on the nose"
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 10: 31
                        -3
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        You sense of the saying, apparently do not understand, the Russian language is not native? request

                        For REMEMBERING - they knit a knot or chop on the nose.

                        Show me in the dictionary of idioms of the Russian language "hack a knot on the nose"


                        belay Wrong! angry

                        Correctly so:
                        1]"chop a nose on a nose".
                        2. 'hack to death on the forehead (with an ax) " yes

                        Simplified. :: "cut the knot on the nose with an ax"
                        yes
                        Link: https://slovarvjemcujinmoi.ru/word.php?wordid=8701 hi
                      3. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 10: 36
                        +2
                        laughing laughing
                        "hack a knot on the nose" -. "hack a knot on the nose"
                        Yeah .. the meaning has changed dramatically
                        Correctly so:
                        1. "cut a knot on the nose."
                        2. "hack on the forehead (with an ax)" yes

                        Simplified. :: "cut the knot on the nose with an ax"

                        Everything is written to you below the message.
                        Leave your fabrications to yourself, you like to say so - say it’s not scary.
                        But do not blame others for not knowing the Russian language on the basis of your misunderstanding of the meaning of idioms.
                        And you have some kind of link .... broken
                        possibly not fully copied
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 11: 23
                        -4
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Yeah .. the meaning has changed dramatically

                        Uh - uh, honey, you have a problem with the Russian .... request
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Below you message all it is written.

                        Yeah:
                        Quote BAI
                        If you nose - like a trunk at the elephant
                        - IMMEDIATELY, the person "knows" that the "nose" is a WOODEN PLATE. yes lol
                        Incidentally, I suggested Comrade. YOU give me a WOODEN plank (nose) for a notch (with an ax), but he, as you see, was sure that it was ... a lively nose ... And- Offended .... lol laughing

                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        But do not blame others for not knowing the Russian language on the basis of your misunderstanding of the meaning of idioms.

                        Comrade's "trunk" - Help you yes
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And you have some kind of link .... broken

                        Yes?! I will correct, yes ... yes

                        And you type on the characters, maybe it will help ... lol hi
                      5. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 11: 29
                        +1
                        Uh - uh, honey, you have a Russian problem.

                        Well, tell me, expert, about the semantics of phrases 1) "hack a knot on the nose" and the meaning 2) "hack a knot on the nose".
                        And see what differences laughing
                        If you nose - like an elephant’s trunk

                        He actually wrote to you that you understand this phrase verbatim.
                        Yes?! I will correct, yes ...

                        So where is the corrected?
                        I typed by symbols, thanks for the hint. And you know, nope, the World Wide Web does not know about such a site. Maybe we have different "Internet")))
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 12: 01
                        -4
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Well, tell me, expert, about the semantics of phrases 1) "hack a knot on the nose" and the meaning 2) "hack a knot on the nose".

                        Slowly, slowly, in syllables, read both sayings. Five times.

                        Well how? wink
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        He actually wrote to you that you understand this phrase verbatim.

                        So I’m talking about this: I’m telling him about the WOODEN PLATE (nose), I ask her to give it, but he’s talking about .... A living nose. Isn’t it strange? request
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        So where is the corrected?
                        Typed by characters, thanks for the help.

                        Duc, and read ?! belay request
                      7. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 12: 36
                        +2
                        Well how?

                        Followed your advice, secret knowledge available only to you was not revealed.
                        Therefore, humbly I ask you to clarify the semantics of both phrases so that you can see these cardinal differences
                        Duc, and read ?!

                        That does not find such an IP address? I read it.
                        Search in search engines also does not find matches. Something like this.
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 12: 42
                        -5
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Followed your advice, secret knowledge available only to you was not revealed.
                        Therefore, humbly I ask you to clarify the semantics of both phrases so that you can see these cardinal differences

                        Mala dose .... recourse Ten! yes
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        That does not find such an IP address? I read it.
                        Search in search engines also does not find matches. Something like this.

                        Ehhhh ... ONCE AGAIN: https: // slovarjemcujinmoi.ru / word.php? wordid = 8701
                        Something like this.... hi

                        But I will fix the site settings! belay
                      9. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 December 2019 13: 12
                        +1
                        Mala Dose .... recourse Ten! yes

                        I even arranged an overdose)))
                        There will be no explanation, no?
                        Ehhhh ... ONCE AGAIN: https://slovarjemcujinmoi.ru/word.php?wordid=8701
                        Something like that .... hi

                        But I will fix the site settings! belay

                        You intrigued me )
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 13: 26
                        -3
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Mala Dose .... recourse Ten! yes

                        I even overdose tripled )))

                        Ehhhh ... ONCE AGAIN: https://slovarjemcujinmoi.ru/word.php?wordid=8701
                        Something like that .... hi

                        But I will fix the site settings! belay

                        You intrigued me )

                        A lot of..... request

                        Come on, I’ll put you a plus sign and finish on this ... hi .
                      11. BAI
                        BAI 25 December 2019 09: 11
                        0
                        It's hard to talk to the telegraph pole. To you for erudition - "hacking to death" has nothing to do with the human nose.

                        A knot for memory - a tied tip of a handkerchief as a reminder of what needs to be done (Explanatory Dictionary of the Russian Language (1992) Ozhegova S.I., N. Yu. Shvedova, "Knot")

                        Tie a knot (for memory) - at the end of the scarf, so as not to forget (omen). “- Hey, tie a knot for memory! I asked to be silent ... ”Griboyedov. (Explanatory dictionary (1935 - 1940) by D. N. Ushakov, "Knot")

                        In the old days, to remember something, they tied the tip of a handkerchief as a reminder of what needs to be done. This method of memorization was widespread in Russia until the 20th century, since paper was expensive and not many could afford a notebook.

                        The meaning of phraseology

                        In the modern interpretation, the expression "chop yourself on the nose" means remembering once and for all, for life. The phrase can be quite aggressive in nature, depending on the situation, it can play the role of a warning, caution, or the desire to draw certain conclusions, for example, when one of the interlocutors requires his opponent to remember the information presented by him.


                        The origin of phraseology

                        Why exactly is the “nose” the central figure of winged expression? The history of phraseology began in Russia, when the majority of the population did not possess the skills of either writing or reading. This lack of minimal education had a bad effect on trade, people simply could not take part in fairs, correctly dispose of the amounts and make transactions in the market. At that time, it was customary to carry wooden planks for writing lessons, on which certain notes were made.

                        This habit has also spread to merchants who on their tablets made notes about transactions and financial transactions. The word "Nose" in the sense in which it makes sense in the phraseology under consideration comes from the verb "wear." Non-literate residents carried tablets with them almost everywhere, never parted with them.

                        You can follow in the footsteps of Medvedev - chop your handkerchiefs with an ax and tie a knot on the plank.
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 December 2019 10: 50
                        -4
                        Quote: BAI
                        it’s hard to talk to the telegraph pole.

                        Learn what "introductory words" are in the Russian language, otherwise even the pillar will not be able to understand your gibberish. request
                        Quote: BAI
                        In the modern interpretation, the expression "chop yourself on the nose" means to remember once and for all, for life wooden plankson which certain notes were made.
                        Strange, but you just convinced me that it .....
                        nose - like an elephant’s trunk
                        belay lol I suggested you give me wooden plate (nose)on which they chopped with an AX. Did it get there? No.

                        But, let's not argue! yes

                        If you do not like to "hack to death", then "chop on your forehead "(dictionary Ozhegov https://slovarozhegova.ru/word.php?wordid=8701) hi
        2. Victorio
          Victorio 24 December 2019 18: 18
          +3
          Quote: apro
          Quote: Olgovich
          Is it really not visible for the goals of the struggle?

          Judge by deeds. By deeds ...

          ===
          Russia has grown Siberia not without the help of the Cossacks?
      2. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 08: 15
        +3
        Olgovich (Andrey)
        Cossacks and Ataman Dutov himself fought FOR RUSSIA: for RUSSIAN Faithful, RUSSIAN Semipalatinsk, RUSSIAN Guryev, RUSSIAN Uralsk, etc.
        Good morning, ward number 6. Cossacks, these are independents and they are not for any single Russia, they did not fight, do not lie. Each Cossacks, on the contrary, pulled a blanket over itself and strove for independence. Krasnov tried to chop off the territory of the Great Don Army and, moreover, lie under a German protectorate. Kuban Cossacks also aspired to independence. The same thing with the Dutov Orenburg Cossacks. The Cossacks did not fight for a single and not divisible, however, like the white, they did not fight for it. They fought for the opportunity to continue to parasitize on the body of the people and for nothing more.
        The Cossacks, under the command of Generals Dutov and Bakich, made a Hunger trip in December from the war zone near Akmolinsk to Sergiopol. This campaign began simultaneously with the Great Siberian Ice Campaign of the Kolchak Army.
        The author, it will be enough to call the already shameful flight "great campaigns", there was no greatness there. One shame of defeat, hunger and popular contempt, that's what accompanied all these white underdogs!
        1. Red Bogatyr
          Red Bogatyr 24 December 2019 08: 23
          +5
          Mr. Olgovich would have to register the gauntlets, in a moment would change his mind about RI :)
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 08: 34
            +4
            red hero
            Mr. Olgovich would have to register the gauntlets, in a moment would change his mind about RI :)
            Well, he is, according to his confession, one of the "former" white-bellied underdogs, and he is raging. It is unlikely that he imagines himself in the role of a poor peasant, whom for arrears the master whipped half to death in the stable, and his wife or daughter was registered in the hayloft. They all think of themselves as barons and counts.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 24 December 2019 10: 04
            -11
            Quote: Red Bogatyr
            Mr. Olgovich would have to register the gauntlets, in a moment would change his mind about RI

            To prescribe a recipe for a candidate for membership in the Politburo of the Central Committee, Comrade Eiche,
            Rhodes and Esaulov brutally beat Eihe with rubber sticks, who fell from the beatings, but they beat him in a lying position, then they lifted him up: “Do you admit that you are a spy?” Eihe answered him: "No, I do not recognize." Then he was again beaten by Rhodes and Esaulov, and this nightmarish execution on a man sentenced to death continued only with me about five times. Eihe's eye was knocked out and leaked during beating


            On October 1, 1939, Eiche made a statement:

            "No more bitter torment how to sit in prison at the structure for which
            always fought "
            .

            Wow!yes
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 24 December 2019 18: 46
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              Rhodes and Esaulov brutally beat Eihe with rubber sticks, who fell from the beatings, but they beat him in a lying position, then they lifted him up: “Do you admit that you are a spy?” Eihe answered him: "No, I do not recognize." Then he was again beaten by Rhodes and Esaulov, and this nightmarish execution on a man sentenced to death continued only with me about five times. Eihe's eye was knocked out and leaked during beating

              Can you tell me a link to the source of this, certainly true, information? Or, did you receive this exclusive, again, with the help of woodworking, directly from the spirit of Eihe?
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 December 2019 09: 55
          -10
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Good morning ward No.6.

          A. Suvorov, why do you greet neighbors Napoleon and Macedon through the Internet? recourse
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Cossacks, these are independents and they were not fighting for any united Russia,

          Several centuries fought and died for her.

          Russian general chieftain Dutov- a true example of a patriot of Russia, who fought for it to the end: born in a wagon during a military campaign, a volunteer veteran of the RYAV and PMV, a veteran, several times seriously wounded, an order bearer, a popularly elected deputy of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly, a favorite of the people, was killed by the enemies of Russia.
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 10: 35
            +6
            Olgovich (Andrey)
            Russian General Ataman Dutov - a true example of the patriot of Russia
            In your understanding, the "patriots" of Russia in fact turn out to be her traitors. Krasnov, Shkuro, Denikin, Kolchak, solid traitors! True, some were sold to the Germans, others to the Americans and the British, but horseradish radish is not sweeter!
          2. Laurus
            Laurus 24 December 2019 12: 12
            +9
            Ha ha ha Where do patriots come from? The whole white movement is mercenaries fighting against the money of foreign employers and exactly as long as they considered the payment “for labor” to be in accordance with their rank and rank.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 12: 58
              +3
              Quote: Laurel
              Where do patriots come from?

              Exactly from the same place as the Reds from Trotsky. Sverdlov, Uritsky, Zalkind. wink
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 24 December 2019 19: 09
                +2
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Exactly from the same place as the Reds from Trotsky. Sverdlov, Uritsky, Zalkind.

                "Galkin, Palkin, Malkin, Chalkin and Zalkind." (from) laughing
                Greetings, namesake! hi Seriously though, you are somewhat wrong. "Trotsky. Sverdlov, Uritsky" (c) fought for their future rights, and "Krasnov, Shkuro, Denikin, Kolchak" (c) and others like them - for their past rights. And these are two big differences.
        3. pin_code
          pin_code 24 December 2019 09: 58
          +1
          and now not even the Cossacks are parasitic on the body of the people, so .. generally d ... managers. So what...
        4. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 10: 21
          -3
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          They fought for the opportunity to continue to parasitize on the body of the people and for nothing more.

          This is the Cossacks parasitized ?? belay It was the Cossacks who annexed Siberia to the territory of Russia!
          And do not hang labels and stamps - there was a fratricidal civil war, where Russian people with different views killed each other.
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 10: 31
            +6
            Ingvar 72 (Igor)
            This is the Cossacks parasitized ??
            In this context, the white movement as a whole was meant, including all who supported it, including and Cossacks.
            It was the Cossacks who annexed Siberia to the territory of Russia!
            Ermak Timofeevich had nothing to do with white quality, if that!
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 11: 04
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              to white-headedness

              Until the 17th year there was no White Cossacks, as well as Red Cossacks. It was just Cossacks. And the Cossacks never positioned themselves as a separate people, caste, estate - yes, but by Russian people. After the revolution, the Cossacks, like society as a whole, split into two camps.
              1. Alexander Suvorov
                Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 11: 28
                +4
                Ingvar 72 (Igor)
                And the Cossacks never positioned themselves as a separate people, caste, estate - yes, but by Russian people.
                Excuse me, where do you live? I live in the Rostov region and I assure you that there are still people who consider themselves a separate people. Ask the locals and every second person will tell you what is the difference between the Cossacks and say "katsa * pami" or "gutsu * lami". I ask the administration not to consider this an insult, these are concepts generally accepted on the Don in relation to certain nationalities.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 24 December 2019 11: 48
                  +4
                  Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                  Ask the locals and every second person will tell you what is the difference between the Cossacks and say "katsa * pami" or "gutsu * lami".

                  No one argues about the division, but it is class. In Kazakhstan, there is the same division of the people in the Juzes, but also those and those Kazakhs. I already wrote to you that the separation of estates is found among many peoples, the Russian people are no exception.
        5. fighter angel
          fighter angel 24 December 2019 15: 31
          +10
          Alexander Suvorov.
          If, God forbid, White would have won, there would have been no more such a country as Russia on the world map.
          And there would be Japan to Baikal, the Siberian "republic" of Kolchak, the Ural "republic" of the same Dutov, the Don "republic" of Krasnova-Denikin, Finland to Murman, German Ukraine, Poland to the Moscow region, and in the South there would be a British-Caucasian protectorate.
          This is what would have happened to the country if those for whom Ol'govich is "harnessed" had won!
          This is what these "figures" were leading the country to. With the full support of the West.
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 15: 50
            +3
            fighter angel (Alex)
            This is what would have happened to the country if those for whom Ol'govich is "harnessed" had won!
            So it is not enough for them the collapse that Russia underwent in 1991, they want to further dismember it. It is in words that he raves here "for one and not divisible", but in fact, the enemy is still the same.
          2. Victorio
            Victorio 24 December 2019 23: 03
            0
            Quote: fighter angel
            If, God forbid, White would have won, there would have been no more such a country as Russia on the world map.
            And there would be Japan to Baikal, the Siberian "republic" of Kolchak, the Ural "republic" of the same Dutov, the Don "republic" of Krasnova-Denikin, Finland to Murman, German Ukraine, Poland to the Moscow region, and in the South there would be a British-Caucasian protectorate.

            ===
            or maybe not, the same kolchak, in case of victory over the Bolsheviks, could unite the lands of the empire in the same or several truncated borders.
        6. Victorio
          Victorio 24 December 2019 21: 22
          0
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Olgovich (Andrey)
          Cossacks and Ataman Dutov himself fought FOR RUSSIA: for RUSSIAN Faithful, RUSSIAN Semipalatinsk, RUSSIAN Guryev, RUSSIAN Uralsk, etc.
          Good morning, ward number 6. Cossacks, these are independents and they are not for any single Russia, they did not fight, do not lie. Each Cossacks, on the contrary, pulled a blanket over itself and strove for independence. Krasnov tried to chop off the territory of the Great Don Army and, moreover, lie under a German protectorate. Kuban Cossacks also aspired to independence. The same thing with the Dutov Orenburg Cossacks. The Cossacks did not fight for a single and not divisible, however, like the white, they did not fight for it. They fought for the opportunity to continue to parasitize on the body of the people and for nothing more.
          The Cossacks, under the command of Generals Dutov and Bakich, made a Hunger trip in December from the war zone near Akmolinsk to Sergiopol. This campaign began simultaneously with the Great Siberian Ice Campaign of the Kolchak Army.
          The author, it will be enough to call the already shameful flight "great campaigns", there was no greatness there. One shame of defeat, hunger and popular contempt, that's what accompanied all these white underdogs!

          ===
          Cossacks served, you call it parasitism on the body of the people ?! who and how sought for independence, how much he stole and killed - is another matter, the time was like that, everyone had their hands to the elbow in blood, and claims should be to specific personalities, and not all to the heap in your accusatory comments.
      3. knn54
        knn54 24 December 2019 09: 11
        +4
        Annenkov. And most importantly, Bakich essentially ruined the Orenburg Cossacks, which was the third largest and was created by decree from above, and not spontaneously.
      4. Laurus
        Laurus 24 December 2019 12: 08
        +11
        Well, it’s ridiculous to read the bullshit crunch in general, and especially Olgovich. Without exception, all the white leaders supported the overthrow of Nicolas No. 2, so dear to the Bulk-crusts, and some, like Alekseev and Kornilov, took personal part in the overthrow. Without exception, all the white armies during the Civil War were supplied, financed and maintained on the money of foreign powers, including the enemies of Russia in the First World War. Remember, for example, the German occupation of Ukraine and the interaction of the Germans with the Kiev self-proclaimed authorities. Or the American occupation of the Far East and the interaction of foreign occupiers with the same “Supreme Ruler” - Kolchak. As soon as the foreign supply ended, the white armies boldly rushed, some to Turkey, some to Japan, some to France, and some where. Where they continued the struggle in memoirs and taverns.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 December 2019 12: 25
          -10
          Quote: Laurel
          Without exception, all the white leaders supported the overthrow of Nicolas No. 2, the dear Bulk-crusts,

          fool lol
          Quote: Laurel
          Without exception, all the white armies during the Civil War were supplied, financed and maintained on the money of foreign powers, including the enemies of Russia in the First World War.

          After war, got it?

          And during the war the occupiers they threw their fosterlings to Russia, which paid off with them, giving them FOREVER 95% of coal, 80% of steel, 40% of workers 100 tons of gold, products and a third of European Russia.

          White gave them NOTHING.
          Quote: Laurel
          Where they continued to fight in memoirs

          But the Bolsheviks continued the war with Russia in real life: the Russian Cross and the borders of Russia in the 17th century, their "achievements" Do not forget these "achievements" yes
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 12: 54
            +4
            Olgovich (Andrey)
            And during the war, the invaders abandoned their fosterlings to Russia, who settled with them, forever giving them FOREVER 95% of coal, 80% of steel, 40% of workers 100 tons of gold, products and a third of European Russia.
            Feeding Kolchak, paid with royal gold, the total value of which still can not be appreciated!
            The Bolsheviks were forced to go to the infamous Brest Peace, due to the fact that the country was first brought to this state by your bloody tsar-rag, and then mediocrity and talkers from the interim government.
            But who brought the country to the point that it shamefully lost to Alaska for mythical pennies that no one had ever seen ?! Who brought the country to the infamous Paris Congress, and the Portsmouth Peace Treaty is not a shame ?!
            There is no need to blame the mirror, if the mug is crooked!
        2. parusnik
          parusnik 24 December 2019 16: 27
          +11
          Laurus hi , and most importantly ... The resistance to the German troops in Ukraine was given by hastily formed detachments of the Red Guards, anarchists ... Something I didn’t hear was that the Russian patriotic officers would form detachments to repel the Germans ... They were either to Skoropadsky or Don to Kornilov ... No, maybe there were precedents? smile
        3. Victorio
          Victorio 24 December 2019 21: 25
          -2
          Quote: Laurel
          Without exception, all the white armies during the Civil War were supplied, financed and maintained on the money of foreign powers, including the enemies of Russia in the First World War.

          ===
          Bolsheviks forgot to add to this list
      5. fighter angel
        fighter angel 24 December 2019 15: 20
        +2
        Olgovich.
        And who in the morning is no longer drunk, is that, excuse me, not a lancer?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 25 December 2019 08: 17
          -5
          Quote: fighter angel
          Olgovich.
          And who in the morning is no longer drunk, is that, excuse me, not a lancer?

          belay

          Don't drink in the morning, dear - and you'll be so healthy that you won't ask smart questions.

          Nothing to say on the topic?

          That do not litter ....
      6. Corrie sanders
        Corrie sanders 25 December 2019 02: 12
        -3
        to complete the picture, it is also necessary to add that all this foolish thing that went under the red banner and destroyed its culture, history, etc. for the sake of it is not clear why (they themselves could not explain who they were - "for the communists or for the Bolsheviks" in the famous film), immediately after the end of hostilities, they were driven into the labor army with an iron hand (commanders Matiyasevich and Pyatakov, both enemies of the people in the future naturally), where they were given a pick and a wheelbarrow, and having set draconian production standards in the spirit of the Assyrian king Assarhaddon or something like that, forced to clear the railway tracks in the bare steppe. Evasion or desertion in the labor army was judged according to the army regulations with all that it implies. So the "red fighters" were forced to engage in useless foolishness in terrible conditions with all the attendant, the communist classic N. Ostrovsky colorfully depicted this in his famous novel about how fools in Budennovka in nightmarish conditions built a narrow-gauge railway that no one needed
    3. Ham
      Ham 25 December 2019 13: 30
      +1
      Cossacks are different - this is not a nation but an estate
      so that any nation can be a Cossack - even though a Tatar is even drilled
    4. Silvio
      Silvio 29 December 2019 19: 18
      0
      Quote: apro
      And the Cossacks are exactly Russian ???

      OKW was the third largest. In the 1st half of the 19th century, it included state peasants resettled from the Perm province, as well as Kalmyks, Bashkirs, Nagaybaks, and other nationalities. Donets did not consider the Orenburg Cossacks and mocked over them.
  2. Alexander Trebuntsev
    Alexander Trebuntsev 24 December 2019 06: 24
    +5
    Very little is written about the war of the Orenburg Cossacks in the civil war. Basically only about the Cossacks of the South. There, the Cossacks were divided approximately in half, and the Orenburg Cossacks were 95 percent in 1919 for the Whites. Because of this, in Soviet times, even the name "stanitsa" was removed from the territory of the Orenburg army. The same is true in the Ural army.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 24 December 2019 08: 50
      +4
      The Orenburg Cossacks also split roughly in half into red and white, especially after April 4, 1918, when, before the start of the full-scale war, the White Cossacks had completely cut out the first city council of Orenburg. Several Cossacks who refused to participate in the raid were killed. Another thing is that there was no Sholokhov here, there was no one to describe the tragedy of the war.
      1. Alexander Trebuntsev
        Alexander Trebuntsev 25 December 2019 06: 30
        +2
        Tell a lie. The Orenburg Cossacks were at first loyal to the Soviet regime, but the Soviets first urged them to pay indemnities (!!!), and when the Cossacks agreed, fearing a conflict, they also put forward a demand for the Cossack villages to surrender all officers. Here the Cossacks became embittered. And after punitive actions against the villages, when they were shot by artillery, they massively went to the chieftain Dutov. In 1919, Dutov already had 42 horse regiments, an infantry division, and 16 Cossack batteries. And when the Reds understood. that they went too far, tried to attract the Cossacks to their side and announced the creation of Cossack volunteer regiments from the Orenburg Cossacks. At first they announced 3 regiments, but only 2 were able to be created, and even then they were not complete, and because of distrust they did not even give them rifles. As a result, the Cossacks began to desert, murmured and both regiments disbanded. They began to leave Dutov after the defeat, realizing that they only need to leave Russia further, and few agreed.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 25 December 2019 07: 59
          0
          Do you seriously believe that the raid of the Nezhinsk Cossacks on April 4, 1918 was a response to the "indemnity"? Documents, please.
          1. Vasily Barsukov
            Vasily Barsukov 25 December 2019 17: 12
            +1
            And what did Zwilling suffer in the village of Izobilnoy?
    2. Victorio
      Victorio 24 December 2019 21: 28
      -1
      Quote: Alexander Trebutsev
      Very little is written about the war of the Orenburg Cossacks into the civilian. Mostly only about the Cossacks of the South. There, the Cossacks split in half, and the Orenburg Cossacks 95 percent in 1919 was for the whites. Because of this, in Soviet times, in general, the territory of the Orenburg army even the name "stanitsa" was removed. The same is true in the Ural army.

      ====
      a significant part of the Don and Kuban cossacks did not accept the Bolsheviks, however, there are enough villages and hamlets in these territories. that’s not the reason, maybe just local excesses
  3. Boris55
    Boris55 24 December 2019 07: 33
    +5
    The author, why she died, but was not broken? Are you at heart a White Guard who dreams of having at least a small but his village of one hundred souls?

    The question is not idle. We have practically not considered the participation of the General Staff in participation in the revolution and civil war on the side of the Reds, the only force that saved Russia from destruction then. I hope that you do not believe that illiterate peasants could defeat military tsarist generals.

    About whites and Romanovs.
    While the whole of Europe, from the 16th century, was engaged in enlightenment, the development of science, industrialization, the kings "ours" from the same 16th century in every possible way prevented this in our country, that later we had to overcome this lag with not probable efforts. The change in the social system in Russia by the beginning of that century was overripe.
    1. Red Bogatyr
      Red Bogatyr 24 December 2019 08: 20
      0
      there is work on GSH! find, insert link
    2. pin_code
      pin_code 24 December 2019 10: 02
      +1
      you do not feel the difference, died of hunger and disease, and was broken. as this does not apply, this is a tragedy, because there were families with the army. women, children and the elderly.
    3. Minato2020
      Minato2020 24 December 2019 16: 18
      0
      Quote: Boris55

      About whites and Romanovs. While the whole of Europe, from the 16th century, was engaged in enlightenment, the development of science, industrialization, the kings "ours" from the same 16th century in every possible way prevented this in our country, that later we had to overcome this lag with not probable efforts.


      The kings created and funded the Academy of Sciences
    4. Victorio
      Victorio 24 December 2019 21: 36
      0
      Quote: Boris55
      About whites and Romanovs.
      While the whole of Europe, from the 16th century, was engaged in enlightenment, the development of science, industrialization, the kings "ours" from the same 16th century in every possible way prevented this in our country, that later we had to overcome this lag with not probable efforts. The change in the social system in Russia by the beginning of that century was overripe.

      ===
      Yeah, at that time half of enlightened Europe mercilessly plundered and spread rot entire nations in their colonies. and blacks among staff members and until the middle of the 20th century were infringed on their rights
  4. Catfish
    Catfish 24 December 2019 07: 42
    +5
    Special thanks to the author for Annenkov, little is written about him, and the country should know its "heroes". There was a rare type, where there was before him General Slashchev, who was reproached with gallows in sacks.
    Reading such articles once again you are convinced that a civil war is worse than any epidemic, a real genocide of the indigenous population of Russia.
    And who brewed this porridge?
    1. Red Bogatyr
      Red Bogatyr 24 December 2019 08: 19
      +6
      centuries of controversy have accumulated ...
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 24 December 2019 08: 55
      +3
      About Annenkov is in the Military-Historical Journal for 1990. The materials of the trial are printed there. What struck me was the policy of "rendering" the captured villages, when Annenkov forcibly transferred the peasants to the Cossack estate and recruited them on this basis. In contrast to the whining that has been heard for 30 years about the "decossackization" produced by the reds, the alleged "decossackization" is very bad.
      1. pin_code
        pin_code 24 December 2019 10: 04
        +3
        if memory serves, Pikul has a miniature on this subject.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 24 December 2019 19: 41
          0
          Maybe I have not seen this miniature.
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 25 December 2019 05: 35
            -1
            "There was a city that was not there"
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 25 December 2019 08: 00
              -1
              Thanks, I'll take a look
    3. pin_code
      pin_code 24 December 2019 10: 03
      +2
      the type in quotation marks is too soft, it was still sk ... on. in hell burn him.
  5. Red Bogatyr
    Red Bogatyr 24 December 2019 08: 19
    +4
    Maxim died, and ... with him ...
  6. BAI
    BAI 24 December 2019 10: 46
    +7
    Visual illustration of the collapse and decomposition of the white movement.
  7. Laurus
    Laurus 24 December 2019 13: 27
    +11
    "Considering himself the owner of the Semirechye, Annenkov refused to recognize the atman Dutov as a senior. He ordered not to give Orenburg Cossacks neither housing, nor food, nor ammunition. Orenburg units were completely demoralized, there were many typhoid patientsTherefore, they could not exert force pressure. To get out of a critical situation, Dutov lost. For the supply and provision of housing to the Orenburg Cossacks Annenkov paid a significant ransom".
    Wonderful, high relations between colleagues in the struggle! laughing
    Can you imagine that, for example, Budyonny refused to provide housing and food for typhoid patients to Frunze’s soldiers and demanded a ransom?
    Well, it’s just obvious who the Russian army is here and who are the mercenary bandits in the service of foreign capital.
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 24 December 2019 13: 48
      +3
      Laurus
      Wonderful, high relations between colleagues in the struggle!
      Whites have everything through one place, and what to take from them, no matter how, but "blue blood", "white bone", "people of honor" ... laughing
      Look, look above, how their offspring, Olgovich, is raging, you can immediately see what kind of man of "honor and conscience" he is. I am ready to justify any betrayal and abomination.
      1. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 24 December 2019 17: 56
        -6
        Yes, he doesn’t seem to justify. There are just two sects on the site. Rather, 4. A pair of supporters / opponents of Nicholas 2, with all the ensuing topics. And the couple were / not Americans on the moon. And the rest, with the exception of obvious trolls, in other topics, irreconcilable opponents are quite adequate. ;)
      2. fighter angel
        fighter angel 25 December 2019 11: 57
        +5
        Alexander.
        Previously, such topics included one more "vashbrodie" - Lieutenant Teterin.
        It supported with might and main "their nobility", which Olgovich, and also fiercely "cracked".
        But for the last few months, something has not been seen or heard ...
        Is it true that he emigrated and emigrated / taxed somewhere in the Montmartre region?
        Or suddenly a man changed his mind?
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 25 December 2019 13: 30
          +2
          fighter angel (Alex)
          Alexander.
          Previously, such topics included one more "vashbrodie" - Lieutenant Teterin.
          I remember, I remember, there was another, if you remember, the nickname "soldier". I have a feeling that this is either the same character, or a small circle of interests. Recently, it’s true, except for Olgivich, there’s no one to see, except for the one-day trolls.
          1. Red Bogatyr
            Red Bogatyr 25 December 2019 17: 43
            +2
            many pension reform brains ruled ...