Battle suit. Wound statistics, bullets and splinters

Death statistics

The modern battlefield is saturated with a huge number of weapons designed to defeat the enemy. Barrel and rocket artillery, aviation weapons, guided missiles, mortars, easel and hand grenade launchers. It would seem that under these conditions the role of the infantry weapons as a means of defeating enemy soldiers should be minimized. And this opinion takes place, which affects the specific attitude to this type of armament: they say, if necessary, more than enough Kalash and other similar small arms of the caliber 5,45x39 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x54R. In the warehouses of such weapons is stored in an amount that is enough for several world wars, respectively, you need to spend money only on ultra-modern weapons: ships, armored vehicles, aviation.

However, in reality, everything is a little different. Based on the available statistics available in various sources on the Internet, in all military conflicts of the 30th and 50st centuries, on average, small arms account for XNUMX to XNUMX percent or more of all killed and wounded.

Distribution of gunshot wounds by type of weapon

The structure of combat surgical injuries in wars and armed conflicts

The structure of gunshot wounds by the nature of the damage during the first and second wars in Chechnya

The main damaging factors during hostilities are the following:
- defeat by bullets;
- defeat by fragments of exploding high-explosive fragmentation ordnance;
- defeat ready-made striking elements (GGE) of the corresponding ammunition;
- defeat by a shock wave from high-explosive ammunition and their combined options;
- Shockwave defeat of volume-detonating ammunition.
The defeat by other types of exposure - laser radiation, chemical warfare agents, infrasound, microwave, radiation, etc., will be taken out of brackets, since they are not directly related to the subject under discussion.

Contradictory information is available on the effects on various parts of the body. Some sources suggest assessing the likelihood of damage based on the relative surface area of ​​the corresponding parts of the body. The head is about 7% of the total body area, neck - 1,5%, chest - 15%, stomach and lower back - 11,8%, lower limbs - 44%, upper - 20,7%, but this technique can hardly be considered completely justified due to the influence of the terrain and unequal mobility of different parts of the human body.

The distribution of wounds by parts of the body can be considered using the information from the manual for doctors “Field Surgery of Local Wars and Armed Conflicts,” but it reflects all injuries, regardless of whether they are bullet or fragmentation. And this is a very critical question, since fragments from the warhead of a rocket, shell, grenade or mines are distributed conditionally evenly, but firing with bullets is aimed precisely at the conditional center of the target (human body).

Field surgery of local wars and armed conflicts. Damage Localization Table

If we talk about the shock wave, then, despite the fact that its effect is on the entire human body, damage is primarily caused to the most vulnerable organs: the hearing organs and the lungs. Secondly, these are other abdominal organs and further, depending on the intensity of the impact of the shock wave.

The fragments of various types of ammunition can vary greatly in size and weight. Some products, such as grenades for under-barrel or automatic grenade launchers, some hand grenades, have a warhead with fragments of knowingly small mass. Accordingly, the more fragments the warhead of a rocket / projectile / grenade / mine gives, the higher the probability of them hitting the target.

Field surgery of local wars and armed conflicts. Probability table for various types of fragments

Medical data that show the effectiveness of light fragments, primarily indicate that light fragments more often hit the target. It is logical, because if there is no hit, there is no injury / death, which in fact is reflected in medical sources.

How can personal protective equipment (NIB) affect the effectiveness of small arms? Will they reduce its effectiveness or increase?

NIB against ...

Article Armor of God: technologies for promising means of individual armor protection we examined promising technologies that can radically increase the protection of fighters and make them obsolete, i.e. significantly reduce the effectiveness of most of the existing small arms. It would seem that the effectiveness of small arms should inevitably decline. If you do not develop new weapons and ammunition, then it will be so. But the effectiveness of all other types of weapons — the warheads of missiles, shells, mines, and grenades — will also decrease.

What weapons effectiveness will decrease to a greater extent? If you look at the tables above, you can see that the greatest losses are caused by light high-speed fragments, which have the property of quickly losing speed with increasing distance. Such fragments give ammunition of the VOG-17 / 17M type for automatic machine-gun grenade launchers of the AGS-17/30 type, ammunition of VOG-25 / VOG-25P for the under-barrel grenade launchers, 30x165 mm shells of small-caliber automatic guns of the 2A42 type, grenades of the RGN type.

Model grenades for 30-mm automatic grenade launchers VOG-17

Layout of grenades for underbarrel grenade launchers of caliber 40 mm VOG-25 and VOG-25P

Protecting a fighter from a bullet, especially with a heavy armor-piercing core, is much more difficult than from a small-caliber fragment, which, according to medical sources, often has kinetic energy of the order of 100 J when it enters the body (this is the initial energy of the caliber .22 cartridge). Thus, to protect against such fragments, not only armor plates from existing and promising materials may be sufficient, but also solutions based on flexible materials that can cover the maximum surface area of ​​a fighter’s body.

Accordingly, the widespread introduction of promising NIB can lead to a significant decrease in the characteristics of these types of ammunition, if not to abandon them. In the compact dimensions of the ammunition of these calibres (30-40 mm) it is impossible to place a sufficiently large amount of material for large fragments or ready-to-use striking elements (GPEs) that can penetrate promising NIBs. And if you place a smaller amount, then the probability of getting fragments or GGE into the target will be significantly reduced. The high-explosive action of small-caliber shells is obviously small, however, and additional protection may be provided from it. This problem - the need to increase the mass and size of a fragment or ready-to-use striking elements will be relevant for larger calibers, advanced automatic cannons of 45-57 mm, and mortars of 60 mm caliber mortars. The smaller probability of a large fragment or GGE hit will have to be compensated by an increase in the accuracy of projectile guidance on the target, that is, most likely by the active introduction of guided ammunition, which are already being developed for these calibers, as we considered in the article 30-mm automatic guns: sunset or a new stage of development?

As for even larger ammunition, such as shells, mines, missile warheads, their effectiveness will significantly decrease. If we recall the distribution of the probability of defeating various types of fragments, taken from the book “Field Surgery of Local Wars and Armed Conflicts,” then small fragments (less than 0,5 g) account for 66,6% of the targets hit, and medium (0,5- 10 g) 26,7% and for heavy (more than 10 g) 6,7%. In this case, medium and heavy fragments account for 27,4% of the mass of all fragments generated during the explosion of a shell. The need for programmable fragmentation of the shell of the shell only on medium and large fragments, or the use of only shells with GGE, will reduce the likelihood of a single fragment or GGE in the target, which in turn will necessitate an increased consumption of ammunition or a wider use of expensive guided ammunition.

From body armor to armored suit

In recent developments in the NIB, there is a tendency to create equipment that completely covers not only the body, but also the head of the fighter. A helmet that has existed as an element of equipment for more than 100 years can be transformed into a fully enclosed armored helmet. How important is this item of equipment?

Protecting the fighter’s head is much more difficult than protecting the body, because, firstly, the severity of the protection lies literally on the fighter’s neck, and secondly, even if the ammunition with high kinetic energy does not break through the helmet / helmet armor, it can completely break the fighter spine. Thus, it will be possible to realize head protection from automatic / rifle bullets and massive high-speed fragments only in solutions based on an exoskeleton, which is a separate topic for discussion.

But even a helmet that does not provide protection from machine guns and rifle bullets can be extremely popular. First of all, we are again talking about light and, possibly, partly medium fragments. Protecting the face and neck from them can significantly increase the survival of fighters on the battlefield. Also, a closed helmet will effectively protect hearing organs and lungs from explosive action, and additional protection from the thermal effects of explosions will be provided.

A relatively simple breathing system with a compact power source can provide forced air through a filter. On the one hand, this will allow the incoming air to be cleaned of dust and burning particles, on the other hand, a small excess pressure will provide the fighter with an additional portion of oxygen and will prevent unfiltered air from entering the helmet. The transparent visor of the helmet will protect the face and eyes from splinters and temperature effects.

Clockwise above is the US Army’s electrified Heads-Up helmet with integrated display system, the helmet of a future Japanese soldier Devtac, the armored helmet of the Russian company Armocom and the concept of the helmet helmet of the promising Russian equipment Ratnik-3

Armored helmets are currently under development. There are some problems, such as the flow of a shock wave into the helmet and its re-reflection from the inner surface, but they will be solved one way or another.

In addition to the bulletproof helmet, an active framework can be implemented in promising NIBs. In the normal state, it can be flexible, not hindering the movement, but when it detects a shock wave (for example, by thermal sensors of an explosion burst), it is instantly fixed, protecting the lungs and other cavity organs.

RUNOS: subsystems of intelligence, control, navigation, recognition, communication

It would seem that such elements of equipment as reconnaissance, control, navigation, identification and communications systems do not directly affect the probability of hitting a soldier with various types of weapons? However, upon closer inspection, this is not the case. It is the improvement of the navigation subsystems, the identification and communication of advanced equipment of a ground fighter, that will make it possible to split large units into small ones, without prejudice to ensuring their joint actions. Move apart - hit together. The supply of such units can be carried out by ground and air drones, containers on controlled parachute systems dropped from stealth transport aircraft, including unmanned ones.

Where it leads? Moreover, the classic fighting will more closely resemble a high-intensity guerrilla war, in which professional men equipped with the latest technology will take the place of men in caps with earflaps with three-rulers. In fact, this is confirmed by existing realities, when in armed conflicts around the world more and more clashes occur with the participation of special operations forces operating in small, well-armed and organized groups.

In the context of the issue under discussion, this means a decrease in the efficiency of heavy equipment, providing fire damage to enemy forces due to the defeat of areal targets, since it is ineffective to expend wagons of missiles and shells for the sake of a unit, and the priority in this case will again turn to more expensive high-precision ammunition.

Hack and predictor Aviator

In all military conflicts of the 30th and 50st centuries, small arms are one of the most important tools of war, ensuring the defeat of XNUMX to XNUMX percent of the enemy’s manpower.

Introduction NIB from promising materials with an active skeleton, armored helmets that completely cover their heads, and the transition to the tactics of using small groups operating on the principle of "moving apart - to hit together" will increase the value of personal weapons of ground soldiers, which, of course, includes small arms. In this regard, we can expect a relative increase in combat losses inflicted by the enemy, namely, small arms, which confirms the advisability of carrying out developments in this direction and creating promising weapon-cartridge complexes at the modern technological level.

Comments

[Cottodraton]

To protect the head from bullets so that the neck does not break, you need some kind of flexible mechanism that duplicates the vertebrae, which is attached to body armor and connected to the helmet. So that as a result of a bullet, the energy is extinguished.
As an option

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Cottodraton

To protect the head from bullets so that the neck does not break, you need some kind of flexible mechanism

An armored turn in many cases will be enough, as you can see by the way, on the "Ratnik" just turn your head less up and down.
By the way, it may be interesting that one of the first this (similar) problem was puzzled by the French volcanologist scientist Garun Taziev, who developed a helmet resting on his shoulders, as there were cases of a neck fracture in his colleagues, from a volcanic bomb falling on his head, and the helmet and head were practically not damaged, but the neck, on the contrary.

[Sergey_G_M]

Yes?
And I thought that the knights solved this problem by starting to use the "Greathelm" helmet resting on their shoulders in the 13th century, but it was very difficult to turn your head in it.

[Vladimir_2U]

Then the bullets of the neck did not break, and the knights did not climb near the volcanoes. )))

[Sergey_G_M]

With spears they broke and fell from the horse, and if you look at the latest tournament armor, then modern NIBs smoke aside))

And to apply a flexible joint effectively you can, if you use a pair of friction in the joint or a mechanism that allows movement at normal speed but stops (gaining stiffness) during sharp shock or acceleration - then it will work well against fractures and small fragments.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

If you look at the latest tournament armor, then modern NIBs smoke aside

Knights are good, their horses dragged and everything is on itself, everything is on itself. When the exoskeletons will push the scientific world. )))

[Sergey_G_M]

Mula robots are on their way, they are running straight into the army!

And the dude from the video will soon have an article for ill-treatment of robots!

[Vladimir_2U]

Ahaha, the exoskeleton is now not needed! Wiping away my tears

[your1970]

The Americans apparently buried their own because of inefficiency. There was an article on VO two years ago.

[Sergey_G_M]

Not a fact, machine guns were also buried in the beginning - they say it’s expensive and there aren’t enough cartridges, technologies that develop robots will become cheaper, not now so in 5-10-15 years, I think it will become a reality
And considering that conflicts are increasingly occurring with a significant technological and economic advantage of one of the parties, robots will be used more and more often to reduce their losses (they are already being tested, but the nomenclature and functions will increase). Now, for example, caterpillar types of our Uranium-9, controlled for mine clearing, later it will be possible to create a specialized robot for storming buildings, a repeater robot, a robot tow truck robot, etc. infinitely.
Those. With the development of robots and the transfer to them of some of the functions of the infantry, the infantry personal protection systems can change significantly and go not because of the path that is now being predicted.

[opus]

Quote: your1970

The Americans buried their own because of inefficiency.

no. in full in development

it is now yellow and smaller. Hurt him

SPOT

a whole line for every taste

[Ka-52]

helmet "Greathelm" in the 13th century, but it was very difficult to move your head in it.

therefore, they began to add shingles (serviller)

[maidan.izrailovich]

As an option

As an option, you need to swing your neck. How wrestlers do it. Or the chicken neck will be, or like a wrestler. However, there is a difference.

[Raven-d]

everything is already drawn in toys in the early 2000s. In which, without a doubt, all those people who are now engaged in the implementation of this business in life "were hacked". It remains to hang the ceramics on the "ekza". Add 5g networks to the battlefield. And we will get the same "canned food" from toys.

[Sergey_G_M]

Koreans love toys about robots and apparently really want to play))

The truth is that the power source on the trolley will have to be dragged along

[would]

To protect the head from bullets so that the neck does not break, you need some kind of flexible mechanism,

He would be needed if such a problem were. But she is not. There is no evidence of this, not a single study of anything. It is unclear where this bike came from, but it is constantly remembered (and in this article, too). But for example, the armament has a Vulkan-5 helmet hosted by BR4, that is

"The body provides all-round protection during shelling from a distance of 5 meters from a 7,62-mm SVD rifle with an LPS bullet and 7,62 AKM with a PS bullet with a heat-strengthened steel core"

And GOST does not allow any neck fractures and, in principle, serious backward injuries. Passed the guest, then nothing like that was recorded.

The problem with these helmets is fundamentally different - the sheer weight. The mentioned Vulcan-5 weighs 4.5 kg (!!!) and categorically cannot be worn on the neck for an official long time. I heard that the restriction is about 2 hours of continuous wear. Many special operations last longer, and a soldier in general should be in a helmet almost always because he can fly at any time. And this problem can be solved only in two ways: either by creating and using innovative materials that will provide a fourfold weight reduction with the same protection, or by redistributing the load from the neck to other parts of the body. I can’t believe the former in the near future, but the latter has already been used by knights and is now used in sapper costumes.

[Katanikotael]

The volcano weighs 6.5 kilos, there are no problems with the neck because it comes with a full set of all-round defense, including a collar

[would]

You have incorrect data, you have confused a lot.

1. Volcano-5 itself weighs 4.5kg. The bundled visor 1.8. That is, in the aggregate 6.3, but the visor can not be worn.
2. No "all-round defense kit" is included with Vulcan-5. You confused it with the "Vulcan" helmet, which is hosted by BR2, and the aventail really comes with it, but it does not play any function that supports the neck. Volcano-5 and Volcano are different helmets with different protection classes.

[Katanikotael]

Well, what's the point of a helmet without a visor?
The manufacturer’s website clearly states that the helmet is designed to be worn in a full set of all-round defense, with something like OVR-3Sh.

[would]

Counter-question: What then was the meaning of the visor that protects only from a Makarov pistol while the helmet itself protects against AKM?

The correct answer to this question is helmets from an article that protect a person in the same class as the rest of the head.

The manufacturer’s website clearly states that the helmet is designed to be worn in a full set of all-round defense

There is nothing of the kind on the manufacturer's website in the helmet's "card".

Protective with a high level of protection "Volcano-5" is intended for use in a set of combat equipment for the purpose of circular protection of the human head from bullets of small arms.

[Passing]

Quote: Cottodraton

so that the neck does not break

IMHO, the problem of breaking a bullet in the neck is greatly exaggerated, several cases of machine-gun bullets falling into the helmet without breaking are known, the neck vertebrae of the fighters were not affected. Moreover, as I understand it, in at least one case the bullet was not at the end, it hit with full impulse, and in the other case two bullets hit the helmet at the same time, probably at the end.
IMHO, for the cervical vertebrae the main danger is the heavy bulletproof helmet itself, by itself, without any bullet hits. So helmet support is needed not from bullets, but to compensate for weight.

[missuris]

Yes and no. on the one hand, the heavy weight of the helmet bends the neck over time and overloads the intervertebral discs and abrades them. on the other hand, it is with its mass that the heavy helmet compensates for the momentum of the bullet that hit the head, i.e. the head in the light helmet pulls harder than the head in the heavy helmet.

[Passing]

In addition to static loads, there are also dynamic ones, and they are the most dangerous. If the bullet hit is a single case, then these dynamic loads are constant. Almost every day, a fighter intensively maneuvers many times, jumps from a height / transport, falls to the ground, and every time there is a chance that a heavy helmet will move the vertebrae and we will receive a seriously wounded fighter, or even a life-long disabled person, without any involvement of the enemy.

[missuris]

they had such a thing, you could see it on the site. I like the system as in "Altered Carbon" where the fighter's body has an exo-neck almost to the top of the head and is 2-neck wide

[Sergey_G_M]

According to the first table: it is somewhat incorrect to compare the Second World War and local conflicts that are often partisan - counterguerrilla in nature, where the enemy has little or no artillery, no aviation, frequent ambush operations under the cover of civilians, relatively more intense sniper confrontation, mine ambushes.
These are different types of armed confrontation and the proportions of wounds from different weapons will be different and it’s not worth generalizing here.
Based on this, we can conclude that for the most effective NIB should be imprisoned for the enemy (what kind of weapons he has, tactics of actions, etc.), location (geography, climate), etc.

[BMP-2]

This is yes. And also the table "Distribution of injuries by body parts" immediately reminded of the effect known as "Survivor Bias", when the Americans tried to find the optimal scheme for booking the aircraft's vulnerable spots by analyzing the damage on the vehicles returning from the battlefield. And only the Hungarian mathematician Abraham Wald was able to show that this is stupidity, since lethal damage is just received by those planes that could not return ...

[Firelake]

There is a comprehensive assessment.

[polar fox]

classic military operations will become more reminiscent of a high-intensity guerrilla war, in which professional men equipped with the latest technology will take the place of men in caps with earflaps with three-rulers.
as history has shown, "professional fighters" with serious mixing quickly end and men in earflaps are fighting again ...

[Good_Anonymous]

Quote: polar fox

as history has shown, "professional fighters" with serious mixing quickly end

Knights in the Middle Ages did not end.

[sen]

What about ammunition protection for volumetric explosion?

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: sen

What about ammunition protection for volumetric explosion?

From the point of view of damage, the mechanism of action of ammunition of a volume explosion is comparable to a high-explosive action - a shock wave. But there are differences - a large area, better penetration beyond obstacles, but less predictable impact - worse results with strong winds, precipitation, in the mountains (discharged air).

ODBs will never replace HE shells, but will complement them in some application scenarios.

[Sergey_G_M]

In the context of the issue under discussion, this means a decrease in the efficiency of heavy equipment, providing fire damage to enemy forces due to the defeat of areal targets, since it is ineffective to expend wagons of missiles and shells for the sake of a unit, and the priority in this case will again turn to more expensive high-precision ammunition.

Often, artillery is not effective because the attack is very fleeting, for example, firing with Nursa from a pickup truck and quickly leaving the position, here and high-precision ammunition will not be effective, in response, Americans from attack drones fire at all suspicious and sometimes anyone (this is about the effectiveness of high-precision).

Where it leads? Moreover, the fact that the classic fighting will more closely resemble a high-intensity guerrilla warfare

These conflicts are often artificially created.
You can try to stop the conflicts if you start to kill the sponsors of this bedlam, but everything is not simple here, these are the Americans themselves with the support of the "moderates", the Iraqi military who seem to be controlled by amers, but somehow not very much, the Saudis with Qatar, Iran - in general, complete porridge, it is not clear when it will end, but civilized countries are also warming up - they are killing the president of Libya, the revolution in Egypt, an attempted coup in Turkey, two Iraqi wars, etc.
And interestingly, sponsors of terrorists for some reason do not sponsor terrorist attacks in the United States

[Vladimir_2U]

An interesting article, thanks to the author, analysis is available, work with different sources, and not some kind of translation, albeit high-quality.
there is a tendency to create equipment that completely covers not only the body, but also the head of the fighter It is time to completely close the whole body, and not just the body and head, because a slashed, sorry, ass, or even caviar, even with the smallest fragments, does not contribute to an increase in combat effectiveness. ((I don’t remember what it’s called, but the predecessor of the "Barmitsa" provided all-round protection from this dirty trick, at an acceptable weight, but the problem came out with overheating of the body. So the exoskeleton in this case was not a vital necessity.

[your1970]

Any protection will either restrict movement and visibility, or be overweight, or cause too much body shake when, for example, a line from a heavy machine gun is fired at short distances

However, all this is a well-forgotten old ....
The era of wedges - as a symbol of the protection of each (maximum 2 foot soldiers). Flashed and ended in 10 years ....
And it seemed like an ideal option - and quickly, and with a machine gun, and the fighter is protected from all sides ...
It turned out to be zilch ...
And now, in fact, they offer the same thing, even at a higher technological level

[Operator]

The most numerous small fragments weighing about 0,5 grams - garbage question, intercepted by Kevlar uniforms and a composite helmet. After that, bullets of small arms come to the fore.

There is a trend - high-impulse bullets of small arms of the type used in the Sheffield cartridge of 6,8x51 mm. Against them, we need ceramic armor made of pure boron carbide in combination with a passive exoskeleton (including articulated armor) of the XSAPI type.

Protection of the lungs and eardrums from the shock wave - the simplest non-return valves in the respiratory openings of the helmet, triggered when the pressure threshold is exceeded. To protect internal organs, a spacesuit such as a space one will be required to enter outer space.

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Operator

To protect internal organs, a spacesuit such as a space one will be required to enter outer space.

The article contains fragments from a study conducted by the Ministry of Emergencies, in which they argue that any rigid elements of a bulletproof vest - the same plates of armored ceramics, as I understand it, even not fixed to the frame, reduce the effect of the shock wave on the lungs and other organs by about 25 %

[Sergey_G_M]

Ceramic armor with an exoskeleton will appear - manual automatic grenade launchers of 20-25 mm caliber with cumulative shells will appear, as well as grenades, mines and artillery shells, when blown up, scattering cumulative submunitions.
And such an expensive armored suit will turn into a pumpkin.

[2 Level Advisor]

so that the meaning in the armor is possible, but .. since the time of the knights, no state has managed to create a fully heavily armored army, and it’s necessary to be able to fight in such armor .. so I think this is the maximum for assault units

[Operator]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

20-25 mm manual automatic grenade launchers with cumulative shells will appear

As well as manual VET, OTRK and ICBMs

The distance of targeted firing from a hand grenade launcher with a cumulative grenade is ~ 100 (one hundred) meters.

[Sergey_G_M]

It’s not strange, yes, the manual anti-tank gun is more likely a PTR grenade launcher.

These are the pies - the Americans are telling a sniper grenade launcher that they probably shoot at 2 km, probably, but by no means 100 meters.
At close range they will use something like:

And the armored suit with the exoskeleton turns out to be an expensive child prodigy with which you can now effectively fight.

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

... And the armored suit with the exoskeleton turns out to be an expensive prodigy with which you can now effectively fight.

Talking about the exoskeleton, its effectiveness and vulnerability is quite premature. This is how to discuss the lack of prospects for aviation on the plane of the Wright brothers. It is not known what he will have the parameters of carrying capacity, mobility, security, etc.

Any grenade launcher is a low grenade speed, significantly lower accuracy compared to high-speed bullets / shells, vulnerability to KAZ (who said that they will not be on the exoskeleton?).

In any case, this will be the most likely step in the development of weapons. A tank for $ 5 can also be shot from several grenade launchers worth up to $ 000, but no one refuses a "wunderwafli" tank.

So far, I believe that one should not dance from the exoskeleton, but from the physical capabilities of the fighter. But even they can significantly strengthen the protection due to new materials, without loss of mobility and mobility.

[Sergey_G_M]

Well, I don’t know, it’s difficult to think far, but in my opinion robotic systems will push them farther and farther away from the front edge, they will be comparable in cost to armored exoskeletons (and if the exoskeleton is also with kaz - hold on, mechanic forever, do not be offended I'm joking So). And if the fighter is not on the front line he does not need serious armor, you can book a good and mobile control center.

[prodi]

there may still be such a moment: since the weapon has become very high-tech, then in the event of a conflict between the two conditional powers, when the main supply of these weapons is exhausted and the goals set are not achieved, the confrontation will go to the previous technological level

[Sergey_G_M]

If the conflict between the middle / underdeveloped states then yes.
The conflict between the nuclear superpowers is now possible for regional influence in the territory of a third country, then it will last until the resources of one of the parties are exhausted with the withdrawal of this side from the conflict. At the same time, the vryatli will end, even if one side runs out of resources and the other has a shortage to continue, a pause will be taken for accumulation. As an example, Korea - if not for the unacceptable losses among American soldiers, it is not known how else this war would end.

[prodi]

well, you are very large-scale, but I’m talking about the constant draft duty of infantry

[Firelake]

In addition to military methods, there are also economic and political ones. Not sure if the resources in the superpower war will run out. But the barmaley will have nothing to catch.

[Star Destroyer]

it will probably be even easier

[V.I.P.]

It seems to me a monstrous return)) and you can fight with such a gun for several hours)) it’s hard to carry, your shoulder will be beaten off in a day, you won’t carry much ammunition. The next day, the shooter will no longer be good)))) well, if he is not overwhelmed in battle)

[Selidat]

Well, to use this weapon as an assault weapon, it seems to me that that is still an idea)) Yes, and the optical sight for this is not particularly convenient. Here we are more likely to use collimator or holographic. As a sniper complex .... I don’t know, the movable barrel does not inspire confidence in accuracy over long distances. If only considered as a replacement for a shotgun.
For the work of the police unit, the ammunition is slightly not humane))
So, in my opinion, this is a "mixture of a bulldog with a rhinoceros", Spectacular, spectacular, but I personally cannot imagine the real application of this "miracle"

[Operator]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

sniper grenade launcher Americans lie what exactly shoots at 2 km

For a "standing tank" target

How can one generally speak of the accuracy of firing a grenade with no ballistic coefficient (blown off the trajectory by a light breeze) and with an initial speed of no more than 300 m / s (against a moving target of the "infantryman" type)?

[Sergey_G_M]

You find fault, in the first message I wrote that such systems will quickly appear in response. And these types of weapons are not intended to deal with the infantryman in the exobron. This is an example of the fact that, if necessary, such (very expensive) armor can be relatively easily and cheaply dealt with, and the necessary weapon technology is available to almost everyone right now.

[awdrgy]

Maybe it’s easier to make a soldier immortal?)

[Pushkowed]

according to medical sources, when it enters the body, it often has kinetic energy of the order of 100 J (this is the initial energy of the caliber .22 cartridge)

It says about specific energy 100 J /sm2

If we assume that the fragment has a spherical shape and is made of steel (density 7,8 g / cm3), then its "caliber" will be about 0,5 mm, its velocity is about 280 m / s, and the energy (not specific, but kinetic ) about 20 J.

But on the other hand, the specific energy of 7,62x39 can reach up to 50 J / cm2; 5,45x39 - about 60 J / cm2; 7,62x54R - about 70 J / cm2; 5,56x45 - about 80 J / cm2 and only some of 7,62x51 can reach 100 J / cm2 (figures are approximate: only to compare their order). So that penetration should be more serious than small things (it does not reach 15 J / cm2).

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Pushkowed

according to medical sources, when it enters the body, it often has kinetic energy of the order of 100 J (this is the initial energy of the caliber .22 cartridge)

It says about specific energy 100 J /sm2

If we assume that the fragment has a spherical shape and is made of steel (density 7,8 g / cm3), then its "caliber" will be about 0,5 mm, its velocity is about 280 m / s, and the energy (not specific, but kinetic ) about 20 J.

But on the other hand, the specific energy of 7,62x39 can reach up to 50 J / cm2; 5,45x39 - about 60 J / cm2; 7,62x54R - about 70 J / cm2; 5,56x45 - about 80 J / cm2 and only some of 7,62x51 can reach 100 J / cm2 (figures are approximate: only to compare their order). So that penetration should be more serious than small things (it does not reach 15 J / cm2).

You are right, I thought it was too difficult to bring all types of damaging elements to a single denominator, since the fragments most often have either a different shape (if there is no notch on the body) or they can arrive in different directions, i.e. the area will be different, even if it is wire cutting.

Regarding the comparison of bullets and fragments, all the same, the bullet is usually oriented in a certain way, which makes it more predictable, more comparable to the GGE. If the bullet has a carbide core, then energy will be distributed between it and the jacket.

The detailed analysis will, of course, be much more complicated, it will sooner be a scientific work, for which serious statistics are needed.

[Operator]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

these weapons are not intended to be used to combat an infantryman in exobron

?

[Comrade Kim]

Good article. And very interesting statistics. In the USA (war in Iraq) 16% of head / neck lesions were surprised.
I recalled the story of our employee (he worked at the US Embassy in Moscow, 93).
During the siege of the Government House, from there our sniper fired a shot at the observer on the roof of the American embassy. Their marines were equipped with ka required (BZ, with a "collar", helmet, diapers)).
The bullet landed in the neck of the Marine. Where the sniper was aiming, history is silent, but the Marine and the unprotected were only his face and neck.
PS The Marine survived, lost a lot of blood, while he was dragged from a nest on the roof, all the steps were flooded.
Eltsin provided the government board so that the Marine could be taken to the states for treatment.

[Sergey_G_M]

From the US Embassy to the Government House about 300 meters. I would have handed the medal to this Marine - I would still have handed over the Darwin Prize to hang around on the roof in uniform 300 meters away from the building storming by tanks and special forces, even if it was the embassy of the Galactic Empire, it would be brilliant anyway!

[Star Destroyer]

Where everything goes for a long time was clear

But the necessary technology will probably not appear even in the foreseeable future. So far, there will be more harm than good from this helmet and suit.

[Firelake]

Only a compact source of energy is needed.

[Fedorov]

I haven't really read the article, but according to the reviews "those participating in the LDNR require anti-fragmentation, I won't get my back from mines. And it's much easier to carry around, and not 15 kg. That's still work, I put on a full-fledged set for the first time, after 100 meters I thought that I would die.And also Kalash plus a dozen shops, a snack, water, grenades .. But you get used to it.

[ser56]

Thanks to the author - informative!

[Passing]

Why is everyone stubbornly ignoring the problem of aiming in a closed helmet? With standard weapons, aiming will be difficult or impossible. At a minimum, you need to fence a special butt, is it if it is detachable in principle, and if not, as in the AR15 family or in some machine guns? Those. equipping the army with such helmets will entail enormous costs for changing / upgrading all small arms.

[prodi]

it is possible to aim by the type of a collimator and even without throwing up a weapon on the line of sight, not to mention the laser mark on the target

[pogis]

Hack and predictor Aviator

In all
Repair it.

[pogis]

Quote: Fedorov

I haven't really read the article, but according to the reviews "those participating in the LDNR require anti-fragmentation, I won't get my back from mines. And it's much easier to carry around, and not 15 kg. That's still work, I put on a full-fledged set for the first time, after 100 meters I thought that I would die.And also Kalash plus a dozen shops, a snack, water, grenades .. But you get used to it.

And if you are over 40 then immediately after removing the NIB you clearly understand where the problems are in the spine.

[lucul]

But even a helmet that does not provide protection from machine guns and rifle bullets can be extremely popular. First of all, we are again talking about light and, possibly, partly medium fragments. Protecting the face and neck from them can significantly increase the survival of fighters on the battlefield. Also, a closed helmet will effectively protect against high-explosive action hearing organs and lungs, additional protection against thermal effects of explosions will be provided.

Key in this article.
All Western analysts agreed that thermobaric ammunition turned out to be the most effective Russian weapon in Syria. And a face mask solves this problem, and if you also comprehend it as a gas mask, then in general you can kill 2 birds with one stone .....

[pogis]

Quote: Star Destroyer

Where everything goes for a long time was clear

But the necessary technology will probably not appear even in the foreseeable future. So far, there will be more harm than good from this helmet and suit.

Come on!
http://russianguns.ru/?p=4515
"A" has been working in it for a long time.

[pogis]

Quote: Comrade Kim

Good article. And very interesting statistics. In the USA (war in Iraq) 16% of head / neck lesions were surprised.
I recalled the story of our employee (he worked at the US Embassy in Moscow, 93).
During the siege of the Government House, from there our sniper fired a shot at the observer on the roof of the American embassy. Their marines were equipped with ka required (BZ, with a "collar", helmet, diapers)).
The bullet landed in the neck of the Marine. Where the sniper was aiming, history is silent, but the Marine and the unprotected were only his face and neck.
PS The Marine survived, lost a lot of blood, while he was dragged from a nest on the roof, all the steps were flooded.
Eltsin provided the government board so that the Marine could be taken to the states for treatment.

"..our sniper .." whose is it?

[Interdum_silentium_volo]

Here, first of all, there is a significant increase in medicine. The level of modern reaction to injury, relief and evacuation. The United States also raised the golden hour rule to absolute. And this fundamentally rules the statistics, this is a huge step.

The fragments are fragments that are dangerous in that they have a large area of ​​damage. That is, the damage occurs to vulnerable parts of the body, and here you have an increase in the area of ​​protection of SIBZ.
But there is a couple of "BUT" an increase in the area is always an increase in the mass of equipment, and a significant decrease in mobility and wearing comfort. In modern conflict, you still come to spend a day in armor. Because of this, all these anti-splinter suits and SIBZ with a large area of ​​protection flash only on photo sessions.

Not to mention that today the role of protection against fragments is a Kevlar fabric (aramid), but by creating a fragmentation shirt you can control the mass of the fragment and its speed, so in mines a fragmentation shirt is used where the fragments have a special shape to save energy, And here the following happens: the area of ​​damage by fragments will be reduced, but the likelihood of overcoming anti-fragmentation cambenzone will increase.

In general, it is a balance of mass, area of ​​protection and protection class.

Helmets are also a bunch of related problems, starting with fogging.

[agond]

Quote: Interdum_silentium_volo

Helmets are also a lot of problems.

The idea of ​​a helmet with a support on the shoulders is not the best, it restricts movement, aiming, taking off clothing for a long time, bulky, it is much easier and more efficient to make a helmet - the cap on the bracket mounted on the back, on a backpack, will be much easier to wear, and the movement in the shoulders does not constrain and any blow to such a helmet will go first to the backpack, and then to the whole body, and the head will not even feel a concussion, and it will be convenient to take off along with the backpack to take off.

[SuperEnot]

Your idea with a bracket on your backpack is very robust. Maybe you have some other interesting solutions for passive exoskeleton elements?

[agond]

Quote: Super Raccoon

are there any other interesting solutions

Oh ... I have a lot of ideas, .. but there's little use. If someone served in the construction battalion, you probably remember how they wore a belt over the top of a pea jacket in winter, the belt was low. just above the hip joint, it was warmer, so if you make it a little more rigid and anatomically adapted to the shape of the body in this place, then you can rest on it a rigid cuirass with a helmet bracket attached to it, then the spine will be completely unloaded. The cuirass’s support on the belt-belt should not be straight, like putting the cuirass on and it lay with its bottom on the belt in which case it will be difficult to twist the body along the axis of the spine. Between the cuirass and the belt there should be 20 cm spacers in the form of a narrow plate (ruler), that is, there are two rulers in front of the abdomen and one or two in the back on the back. Rulers in a vertical position should be hinged to both the belt and the cuirass, between the cuirass and the belt there should be a gap of 2-3 cm; therefore, the hinges of the rulers to the cuirass should be raised 10-15 cm from its bottom. this is necessary for freedom in twisting the body. The machine backpack and helmet on the bracket is a lightweight option when there is no cuirass.

[SuperEnot]

Thank you so much . You have a very interesting and unusual look at standard problems. It will be very nice to chat with you via e-mail.

[agond]

Quote: Super Raccoon

via e-mail.

The more participants in the discussion, the faster interesting solutions are found, and as they say in China, any passer-by from the street can turn out to be a teacher in some business. I just had to drag heavy poles out of the forest and quite far away, I didn't have enough strength to even lift and throw the pole from shoulder to shoulder on the go, I had to squat and "dive" involuntarily came to mind different thoughts, one of them was a "cuirass" for unloading the spine. but it did not come to "implementation". And for the military, an extremely light cuirass, for example, with a cut in the front like a sleeveless jacket and with a support belt, could be part of the uniform and serve as a kind of external frame for carrying many things of which a soldier has a lot. Carrying in classic backpacks violates the natural posture of a person, he has to lean forward, carrying things on an external sling around the cuirass solves this problem and these things themselves can act as an additional barrier from bullets and shrapnel, in dangerous cases, you can attach (hang) on ​​the outside on its surface armor plates and, of course, you can safely carry on her shoulder, for example, a heavy box of ammunition without any oversight and the risk of injuring the spine. ...
As for the protective properties of exoskeletons, it seems better to limit ourselves to protection from secondary factors such as small fragments but the whole body, Attempts to create effective protection for a person from bullets will probably soon stop completely hopeless, since it is much easier to raise the power of a weapon than to strengthen protection.

[agond]

Quote: Super Raccoon

interesting solutions for passive exoskeleton elements?

I received your message, first of all I must tell you that I am a middle-aged and nerdy user, recently on the site, I just can’t get used to it, for example, I don’t even see who is the author of this topic on my computer, and secondly, you want to use the military’s experience exoskeletons in creating therapeutic exoskeletons for patients with cerebral palsy, this means that your experience as a doctor in this area can also be of interest to the military, and not only to them. therefore, it makes sense to continue to openly exchange opinions, all the more there is always a chance to hear the opinions of other participants ... and .. please voice the entire list of questions.

[Chaldon48]

You can make a helmet like that of an astronaut, let it be attached directly to the body armor.

[Eule]

I used this idea from the age of 17, when I injured my spine. I was prescribed a "unloading belt" - this is a leathery thing with a frame of vertical springs in the back, 25 cm high in the back and 15 in the front, worn tightly tightened under the shirt. In general, I was tired of sewing 6 mm plywood into the backpack, and a roller on the back of the belt. That is, the backpack rested on the roller at the top of the belt, and the belt rested on the thigh bones. The clothes on the back suffered a lot ... but on the other hand, I could at least carry some weights, products from the store or a tool for working as an electrician. Avoided disability and worked at least somehow.

[Xomaik]

Straight nano armor in our world

[Chaldon48]

If this is the case, the soldier will turn into a sort of jumping mini tank. I wonder what he will do if he encounters the same enemy on the battlefield, will aim to get into the battery?

[agond]

If it is impossible to create an individual light and reliable defense against aimed fire from arrowheads, then the task is unsolvable, and then what to do? The answer is to create optical noise that interferes with precise aiming, for example mini smoke grenades.

[ratcatcher]

"In all military conflicts of the 30th and 50st centuries, small arms are one of the most important tools of war, ensuring the defeat of XNUMX to XNUMX percent of the enemy's manpower."
Interesting to read in 2022