"Do not fit": In Poland, opposed the procurement of F-35

The Ministry of Defense of Poland is advised to refuse to purchase the latest American F-35 Lightning II fighter, Defense24 writes.

A final opinion on this issue will be published in January. But, as reported in the publication, the refusal to purchase will help the country “save” more than 1 billion US dollars, although at the same time it may deprive the Polish industry of the opportunity to purchase high-tech products.

Our proposals do not meet the needs of Poland, moreover, they are not suitable, given the ratio of costs and results

- representatives of the Ministry of Defense said in response to a request from Defense24

The officials of the Ministry of National Defense, noted in the article, emphasized that such a recommendation was not adopted unilaterally, but after consultations with competent specialists from Polish industry and academia.

The backbone is currently fighting aviation Poland is made up of F-16 fighter versions C and D. In 2017, there were reports that Warsaw was thinking about buying about a hundred more second-hand aircraft of the same type.

It is worth mentioning that the F-35 is one of the most controversial vehicles of recent decades. In particular, she was repeatedly criticized for its high cost and for the fact that it is not a full-fledged aircraft for gaining air supremacy, which was, in particular, the first fifth-generation fighter F-22.

Comments

[Sergey39]

Well that's right. MiG-35 will cost much cheaper

[Vladimir16]

Let NATO rubbish buy up.
Russophobes are bad.
Let gas be taken at exorbitant prices.

And close to them the fuck Russian market.

[Sergey39]

Yes, let it be better to support our defense industry.

[Alex_You]

Do you believe that the Poles will buy the MiG-35?

[WILL]

They shake a little - and buy what the Boss said ... overseas!
And there is no reason for these Slavs - traitors of the Slavic world, to sell Our weapons. Let them feel - Free Democracy!

[Vladimir16]

Quote: ANIMAL

And there is no need for these Slavs - traitors

They are not Slavs.
They are Catholics.

Just do not tell a fairy tale about the fact that the Slavs can be Catholics.

The Slavs are Orthodox. That is why the Slavs.

A Slavic Catholic is akin to a peasant who cut himself off something and considers himself a woman.

[Sergey39]

Of course not!

[Invoce]

Quote: Sergey39

Yes, let it be better to support our defense industry.

They will not support our military-industrial complex! As they were sworn partners, since the time of Ivan Susanin, they still remain. The ambitions of the Rzecz Pospolita from sea to sea have not gone anywhere.
It’s another thing to start thinking ... the Americans are starting to turn in, invest Polish money in maintaining their pants - is it profitable? that's the question. And since the Poles, along with the Ukrainians, have always historically adjoined those with whom it is more profitable to stay, that’s the answer to the question, does Poland need the F-35?
There is a joke on this subject about one Ukrainian - a strong host. A partisan detachment of two Ukrainians - a political worker and commander .... and two Ukrainians and a Pole - some of them are not partisans ... well, you understand I hope

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Invoce

The ambitions of the Rzecz Pospolita from sea to sea have not gone anywhere.

In 1795, these ambitions led to the abolition of this "state".
The lands have passed to us, to Russia and Austria.

Would you like to repeat?

At half past ten these same ambitions again led to the division of the land.

Would you like to repeat?

Poland needs a new emblem - a crossed rake.

[ltc35]

Will not support. They are Russophobes. And abandoned the f-35, so it's from the love of a freebie. Most likely they hoped that the hegemon from bounty for waving its tail would give an expensive toy. But no. I didn’t give it.

[Lone gunman]

Give everyone hats with earflaps, I didn’t forget ...

[G. Georgiev]

Why are MIG-35 radars and missiles better than, for example, the F-16 and Eurofighter?

[ltc35]

And you read the article and it will immediately become clear. The Poles wanted to buy earlier modifications of the f-16 C and D.

[AVA77]

The airship in their pants! not the MiG-35.

[Alien From]

We can only sell them birches ..... for expensive!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Alien From

We can only sell them birches ..... for expensive!

Come on, they are to Russian birches without any respect. Look at the presidential Tu-154 near Smolensk how many they chopped among other things, below the level of the end of the strip; and still don’t want to calm down

[Jack O'Neill]

Well that's right. MiG-35 will cost much cheaper

Why do they need the MiG-35 when they have the F-16 Block 52+?

[TermNachTer]

Given their cost and the budget of Polyandia, here you’ll involuntarily think about it. But is it necessary?

[antivirus]

Poland’s needs, moreover, they are not suitable, given the cost-benefit ratio

F35 can be nicknamed "blooper"
who will spin this with a mockery?

[knn54]

It is too expensive.

[rocket757]

Our proposals do not meet the needs of Poland, moreover, they are not suitable, given the ratio of costs and results

And what are these declarations? Likely it is a BAR?
Such Polish humor ... or trollik, trollik!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: rocket757

Such Polish humor ... or trollik, trollik!

And it seems to me that this is not humor, but hindu dances in the Polish manner: the EU withdraws them from financing next year and the Polyandia type becomes donor country in the EU - but I don’t feel like it. So they are traded - for whom it would be even more profitable lie down and eventually get -35, there’s no alternative for them

[rocket757]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

So they are traded

Everything always rolls down to the same - And who will pay for the "banquet" !!!
Old as the world.

[Gray brother]

Polish Ministry of Defense

It will be punished. You see, the master bolt doesn’t suit them, right now they’ll bring a tap to them and cut the thread.

[Sancho_SP]

There is a military budget in Poland.

There are officials who saw him.

They will buy what will be more profitable for these officials.

[Sayan]

Quote: Gray Brother

Polish Ministry of Defense

It will be punished. You see, the master bolt doesn’t suit them, right now they’ll bring a tap to them and cut the thread.

Moreover, the "left" and small

[cost]

on American bolts inch thread

[Sayan]

I know, "fred" had)))

[Thrifty]

Hey Trump, there in Poland, if you look, there is American oil! They want to deprive the United States of at least a billion dollars, not wanting to buy a plane for themselves from the sucker !!!

[Alex_You]

They will buy from f-16 lockheed. What is the problem.

[golem]

Complete nonsense. They spoke out against offset for airplanes and not against airplanes.

[Kibl]

No, no, no! Let them buy plywood-35. It’s the same 100 percent ruin of any budget. And Polish, especially since you can rejoice!

[eagle owl]

Why the fuck POLAND - first strike aircraft? Do they really want to attack a country with advanced air defense? In the odinar? The United States needs this, Israel, too - they are aggressors. And in Europe you need just an air defense fighter rather. Or a fighter of the second or third strikes, and the first - let the Americans inflict, since they always overthrow

[janeck]

not that caliber or what ?? cartridges from Mi7-29 do not fit this overseas pepelats)

[Pavel57]

Are they afraid to offend Trump?

[7,62x54]

How many pshek do not feed ....

[smaug78]

When they publish it, then there will be something to talk about ..

[Starper-xnumx]

And yet you have to buy the Poles .. No wonder Israel invested in this Fu-35, you need to pay back the investments and urgently hehe

[Fitter65]

The Ministry of Defense of Poland recommends abandoning the purchase of the latest American fighter F-35 Lightning II,

As the donkey said to Ia-Rzhunimagu (like he quoted correctly)! Refuse!!! What will they give up that which they have not thought to offer you yet? Although in the light of the decision to resume flights on the MiG-29 in the Polish Air Force, the procurement of the F-35 will look not at all logical, but on the other hand, with penins in the panshchina nowadays "Bardzo Kepsko". And if you believe those who have the F-35 Lightning II, it turns out that one F-35 costs as much as 1,5 Poland, and there is no Poland for sale.

[Avior]

Link to the article
https://www.defence24.pl/wiadomosci/miliard-dolarow-za-offset-na-f-35-rekomendacja-mon-na-nie
It would be nice to start a tradition of giving links to a source of information

[Avior]

It's embarrassing to write, but I don't really want to see such an open get-up at VO
In the article there is not a word about the refusal to purchase f-35, on the contrary, in the article it is presented as a resolved matter of the near future
The article deals with the contract for related services and it is recommended to make it similar to the Belgian
It is separately written that this is not connected with the main contract for the purchase of f-35

[voyaka uh]

The Poles themselves want to carry out maintenance - to save money.

[Mavrikiy]

"Do not fit": In Poland, opposed the procurement of F-35

In vain you pan so that. A good, foreign thing, they say, even flies. And if you don’t buy, they will ask from NATO. Trump will strike.

[NF68]

Bullets, bombs and missiles of the "wrong system"? Or hit your empty pocket hard?

[n0001]

He will not use the opportunity of direct investment (offsetting the cost of the purchase).

[Lord of the Sith]

"Do not fit": In Poland, opposed the procurement of F-35

But what about those screams about "the best jet in the world"?
Even the beloved wife refuses and says fu)))

[Spiteful77]

How cheers patriots squealed! Poland refuses the Fu-35. Poland wants to abandon ext. agreements for the supply of aircraft, for example for maintenance and repair, since repair and maintenance are already included in the aircraft purchase agreement. Further, the Poles wanted to join the F-35 service in logistics and get into its production, thereby thereby saving money, and so on, they did not succeed. Speech about unwillingness to acquire in the article - NO!
Such articles should be published under an even more biting title: "Poland has abandoned the worst aircraft of our time, the Fu-35, and is massively re-equipped with MIGs!"
The strange tendency, however, is that WO authors misinterpret articles in the Western media by 146%.
Alas, the MIG-29 (35) is an unsuccessful aircraft from its very birth and all attempts to produce it must be stopped. We don’t have much money already. We need a single-engine drummer on the AL-31 (41) and its clones.
It is clear that now such a plane cannot be created and built. But after the 24th year, a chance will appear and instead of tapping money into all kinds of national guard, financing will go to research institutes, design bureaus and industry.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Alas, MIG-29 (35) is an unsuccessful plane ....... your comment resembles a mare who looks into the sky, and a mare who looks into the sky is a corpse, good luck to you zombies

[Spiteful77]

I lied of course. The MiG-29, of course, is not a "bad plane", but just flying crap. The charges took place in the regiment where they were. Without an additional PTB, I did not fly, because then the radius of the chickens would laugh. And add. PTB, fewer missiles on board. In modern conditions, he is a tenant with this PTB and a huge midsection for 5 minutes.
And yet, boy, you were taught at school, with elders and or strangers to talk to you. Of course, your comment doesn’t matter to me. But in the tram you can get for rudeness and a cumpole.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

not a "bad plane", but just flying crap ..... as for an aircraft mechanic, there might be engines, because the service life of RD-33 engines is not high, although how to say, depending on the range of modifications
The training camp took place in the regiment .... is that what you went through interestingly ??? Boy Scout survival lessons ??? commendable !!! What was your base called? cubs or eagles? most likely skunks ....
And yet, boy, ...... in public transport, as a rule, such cacts are from boys and they are snatched along the cumpole

[Spiteful77]

Yet EGE education makes itself felt. Not only that, they also produce young hammams. And the folder was neglected by the belt in childhood, and the miracle of judo grew. Boy, I strongly advise you to put your tongue in one place, I tolerate rudeness, but people like you really don’t like to rake in a bus or tram.
It was a military (not training regiment) Odessa Military District. HF, of course I do not remember, almost 30 years have passed. In the event of war, the regiment was to be destroyed by Incirlik. Half the planes carried pure bombs. FAB-500 and two air-to-air missiles. Half, in the version of fighters. There were special ammunition. They were supposed to return to the airfield in Bulgaria, if for some reason it was impossible to land there, then everyone ejected together in a certain area of ​​the Black Sea, where they were to be picked up.
Of course, now the resource and insecurity of the dviguns have been corrected, but this does not change anything. The aircraft was designed for poor engines and therefore was and remains a poor aircraft. If you put him reliable and less fuel-guzzling engines, then the poor layout and the wrong dimension of the aircraft will remain.
It makes no sense to produce two lines of RD-33 and AL-31 (41) engines. You should focus on the AL-31 and already under it and design a single-engine aircraft. Of course, an analogue of the F-35 will not work, but at least half of the capabilities of the F-35 will already be very good.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Odessa Military District ...... how is it at the training camp after the tragedy of May 2, 2014 ??? does not hiccup?
unsuccessful layout .... unsuccessful layout makes it easy to overcome supercritical angles of attack of the wing. what penguins like fe-35 and others like them cannot do for your information
Of course, the F-35 analogue will not work out ... for educational program. Fe 35 was developed based on the achievements of Yakovlev Design Bureau on the Yak-141 project, in any case, the technical documentation was transferred to Lockheed .... in our country, the Yak-141 was found to be unsuitable, it was calculated differently in Lockheed. So a penguin was born who did not stick to anyone in x. So,. budget gag

[Spiteful77]

In the 90th year I was there at the training camp, which should be clear from the text. A few years ago, in IEE, there was an article written by the director of NIIAS and his deputy about the super maneuverability of fifth-generation aircraft. The general sense of the pack is that the 5th and subsequent generations do not need super-maneuverability and fuck. The maneuverability of the MIG-5 was ensured by the influxes in the wing root, which the Migovtsy spied on the F-29. The first layout of the MIG-16 is a terrible horror. The Americans did not chase and do not pursue over-maneuverability, moreover, they consider it harmful, because it dramatically reduces the speed of the aircraft, which is critical in battle.
The Yak-141 rotary nozzle, Yakovlevites took the 200 model from Kovner. The F-35 is radically different from the 141st, both in the number of engines and in the principles of shortened and vertical take-off. The Yak-141 could only take off with a short take-off, and the F35 could take off vertically. Lockheed bought the documentation at a low price to see where we went, but I think they threw that documentation away.
The F-35 glider is very different than the Yak-141 and made of composites, the internal compartments for weapons and the layout of the fan and engine are completely different. The Yak-141 aircraft of the previous era and at the time of its display in Farnborough was already outdated, so no one wanted to take it.
You would still not retell the agitation of our agitation prop.
Yes, my friend worked for Yakovlev Design Bureau in the early 2000s. The nightingale was flooded with what, say, the Yak-141 is a good plane (yeah, carrying two extra engines) and that it is capable of fighting on equal terms with the Su-27.

[Spiteful77]

It is not yet clear whether the F-35 in the vertical version will be a successful aircraft, maybe the fate of the Harrier or the Yak-38 awaits it. But "ordinary" F-35s, without a fan, are quite successful and CHEAP aircraft.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Moreover, they consider it harmful, because it dramatically reduces the speed of the aircraft, ........... nonsense, there’s nothing more to tell

[Spiteful77]

In fact, the “cobra”, “hook”, and any other maneuver with reaching the minimum permissible flight speeds, are in fact still uncontrollable maneuvers, since in the process of their execution the pilot is deprived of the opportunity to correct the spatial position of the fighter, you can restore control only after that how a dive aircraft will reach at least a minimum evolving speed of about 300 km / h. Therefore, aiming up to this point is almost impossible, and besides, the enemy in the process of combat maneuvering will rapidly change his position in space. In addition, when reaching large angles of attack, the aircraft rotates with significant angular velocities in the plane of symmetry (up to 60 deg / s) and only 8 times it reaches zero angle of attack. As a result, the pilot’s actions during the execution of such maneuvers are programmatic, which means they are predictable, which greatly facilitates the enemy’s conduct of the battle.

In addition, even at that brief moment when the angular velocity of the fighter’s rotation around the center of mass becomes equal to zero due to inappropriate conditions, targeted launch of the SD, as well as accurate firing from the cannon, is impossible at this moment. Perhaps someone will object that the airborne guns are not sensitive to firing conditions, and therefore they can be used. However, it must be remembered that guns on fighter jets are, as a rule, rigidly fixed and cannot track the movement of the target, as this, for example, takes place on combat helicopters. The fighter leaves the maneuver at 200-230 km / h, i.e. at the end of such a maneuver, it cannot really fly horizontally with nу = 1! So there are no “five units of overload in stock” to exit dynamic braking, which A. Fomin wrote about in the book “Su-27. The history of the fighter ”, which I quoted at the beginning of the article, the fighter is almost weakly controlled and is the target.

The creators of "super-maneuverable" fighters suggest solving this problem by installing rotary nozzles, which allows controlling the thrust vector (UHT) and, in their opinion, will provide controllability at speeds lower than the minimum evolving speed. I must say that this will only allow expanding the range of angles of attack that the “super-maneuverable fighter” can reach (for example, it will be 150 ° instead of 120 °) and increase the angular velocity of rotation of the aircraft relative to the center of mass when reaching large angles of attack, but will not force the plane hovering like a helicopter and at the same time turn in the direction the pilot wishes, and at the angular speed that will be necessary in a given situation.

At the same time, it should be noted that the airborne propulsion system will have little effect on the maneuverability of the fighter immediately after the end of the maneuver, since the minimum evolving speed is determined by the aerodynamics of the aircraft, the load on the wing, and the air density (i.e., the current height), and therefore will remain almost unchanged. An attempt to control the aircraft with the help of gas-dynamic forces at such moments when, figuratively speaking, each extra km / h is worth its weight in gold, will result in a decrease in the thrust force spent on acceleration. An increase in the angle of attack will have to pay with an increase in frontal resistance and, therefore, acceleration will take even longer, which will put the enemy in even more favorable conditions, or may result in a collision with the ground if the fight takes place at a low altitude.

Oddly enough, the UVT is not able to significantly increase the capabilities of the MiG-29 and Su-27 in ordinary maneuver combat in the speed range corresponding to M = 0,5-0,9. Since the goal of maneuvering in aerial combat is to create conditions for the use of melee missiles or cannon armament on the enemy, the slightest increase in the force that bends the trajectory immediately affects the course of the fight. In particular, as field modeling and flight experiments showed, even such a seemingly insignificant increase in the angular velocity by 2-3 ° / s (all other things being equal) when engaging in close combat makes it possible to reach the attack line earlier. But the rotation of the thrust vector is necessary to improve handling at speeds close to minimum, and angles of attack close to critical. The rotation of the nozzles installed in the rear of the fuselage will only cause the aircraft to either “lift up” or “lower its nose”, that’s all. To turn the nozzles to increase the normal force (i.e. ny). they should be installed in the region of the center of mass, as on the Harrier. But even in this case, the need for ATC is more than controversial, because at the beginning of the battle (M = 0,8-0,9) already at 3-5 ° angles of attack, fighters overload go to the "nine", because high-speed pressure is great, and there is no need to deviate the thrust vector, since strength is limited by nine units, and during the battle itself, during which maneuvers with a loss of speed are performed, the thrust is too scarce to use for anything other than maintaining or recovering speed. The only where you can use the UHT in the form that we are offered is a fighter with a wing load of more than 400 kg / m? and good thrust-to-weight ratio (Do you recognize? After all, this is our Su-47 "Golden Eagle").

[Crimean partisan 1974]

The rotation of the nozzles installed in the rear of the fuselage ........ stop carrying your nonsense, the MiG-29 has no fuselage, the entire glider is a wing with a cockpit and gondolas dvizhek, everything f-16 and f-35 are fuselage, with a huge load on the wing plane, that's it

[Evil Booth]

here it’s easier to aton for each one to argue with this one)) it’s a bot, then the T90 is out of date or instantly 29 unsuccessful, and at once it has become everywhere. out of every tenth iron.

[Spiteful77]

In general, the creation of a “super-maneuverable” fighter is associated with a number of specific problems concerning the aerodynamic layout, control system, power plant, etc. As is known from the practice of world aircraft manufacturing, an aircraft is designed for a specific flight mode, in which its functioning efficiency should be greatest. For example, the same engine cannot have the same fuel consumption at supersonic and supersonic speeds. The same applies to the wing and other structural elements. As a result, the targeted creation of a fighter aircraft under the super-maneuverability regime may harm the maneuverability of the aircraft itself. And the reasons for such a cautious approach are quite objective, since the area in which fighters have the best maneuverability characteristics lies in the speed range corresponding to M = 0,5-0,9, and the "super maneuverability" mode is realized at M = 0,2-0,45 , XNUMX, and the restriction on the angles of attack is generally planned to be removed. An important role is played by the weapon system, which should be able to carry out targeted shelling of the enemy’s aircraft from obviously difficult conditions (low speed and significant angles of attack of the carrier), which requires the creation of new SDs with enhanced energy ballistic characteristics and a significantly expanded guidance capability.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

which should be able to carry out targeted shelling of an enemy aircraft from obviously difficult conditions (low speed and significant angles of attack of the carrier), which requires the creation of new missiles ..... you slept a lot, the "Helmet" system has been installed on the MiG-29 since Soviet times , exactly like the V-V R-73 missiles, which have an incredible 30 W transverse overload, everything for a maneuverable battle was made a long time ago, and with an onboard gun, it has small angles in two planes, read the technical literature directly from NII VVS, not cursors that have nothing to do with practice

[Spiteful77]

Thus, it becomes obvious that at present the removal of restrictions from the angle of attack used does not give any advantages to the fighter in close maneuver combat, but, on the contrary, can lead to a decrease in its effectiveness. Even reaching an acceptable angle of attack is far from always advisable, not to mention the angle of attack 3-4 times larger. In addition, dynamic conclusions at large supercritical angles of attack are maneuvers of increased complexity and danger. It is quite possible that attempts to use such maneuvers in a combat situation, characterized by significant psychophysical loads on the flight crew, which already cause errors in piloting and using weapons, will almost inevitably lead to a significant increase in aviation accidents with loss of personnel and loss of military equipment.

[Spiteful77]

This was written by a very authoritative person, in the article: Over-maneuverability - questions remain
Major Aviation Cand. those. Sciences George Timofeev
There are also two articles in IEE.
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2009-01-16/10_manevry.html
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2009-10-16/8_planes.html
There were still materials about the harm of over-maneuverability from the Americans, but now too lazy to look. The general conclusion is this: at this stage, over-maneuverability for an air show, the audience squeals, the media howl.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

The general conclusion is that: at this stage, the super-maneuverability for an air show, ....... this is your conclusion, and very far from reality, and in light of modern combat operations in the air in numerous local conflicts, fighters are just the same side by side rub, do not breed profonations here

[abc_alex]

Quote: Vicious77

We need a single-engine drummer on the AL-31 (41) and its clones.

Alas for you. The military categorically reject single-engine vehicles. They, you see, the lives of pilotsоhorns.

[Spiteful77]

MIG-21, 23 were on one. RD-33 at that time was not very reliable, and so the military wanted with one dvigunom. Now, the situation is much better. You can try on one. Only the MO show in the form of all kinds of parks and biathlon to stop, and the money for the real deal. And loafers in the MO to disperse. It’s scary to think how many officers at the ZP and other things will gobble up the officer’s crew Kuzi, who will go to sea, if it comes out, after 7-10 years.

[Ant137]

Selling the F-35 to the "allies" is like collecting tribute.
Curious what the rate of return is.

[Prisoner]

Now! They will refuse. The owner will say everything, they’ll buy as cute. They will cry and buy. What it is? Rebellion, canals!

[eklmn]

As Avior correctly noted:
“It’s awkward to write, but I don’t really want to see such an open get-up at VO
In the article there is not a word about the refusal to purchase f-35, on the contrary, in the article it is presented as a resolved matter of the near future. ”
There, in the article there is a paragraph:
“It is worth mentioning that the F-35 is one of the most controversial vehicles of recent decades. In particular, she was repeatedly criticized for its high cost and for the fact that it is not a full-fledged aircraft for gaining air supremacy, which was, in particular, the first fifth-generation fighter F-22. ”
Firstly - there is nothing “controversial” in this car; it is snapped up like hot cakes. And the price is comparable to the F-16.
And what is the phrase that the F-35 "is not a full-fledged aircraft to gain air supremacy." Of course not! He was not created for this from the very beginning! It was created to support the army on earth and to detect and suppress electronic warfare sources and locators!
The TW editorial staff apparently did not knowingly write the name of the author, so that he would not have to blush for not knowing the material.
Here is what the Amer Colonel pilot says:
“... the F-35 is not designed for battles like the F-16. The F-16 is designed with real air combat in mind. The F-35, with its sensors and tactical stealth capabilities, locates and locates and strikes the enemy long before the enemy sees the F-35. US Air Force General Mike Hostage added: “The F-35 pilot, who decided to take part in the air battle, either made a mistake or was very unlucky.”
By the way, here you can see the acrobatics F-35, quite good ...
https://theaviationist.com/2019/01/12/instagram-videos-of-usaf-f-35-demo-team-practice-leaks-some-new-maneuvers/

[Herman 4223]

Even the Poles refuse, what a charm.

[Dmitry Zverev]

They do not want Migi, no one forces. By the way, in fact, in 2019, the Americans hung a price tag for a penguin of $ 85 million. It's still inexpensive, while the Eurofighter Typhoon costs $ 123 million. If you still want cheaper, then only the Saab JAS 39 Gripen is inexpensive, simple, Poles fit perfectly, cut circles around Warsaw. The price tag is only 48 million dollars apiece. In short, the Poles! Write to me in PM, I will pick you something for your money. If you do not want to support the Russian economy, then at least support the European one.

[Evil Booth]

Quote: Dmitry Zverev

85

Wikipedia had the most violent one that 85 already (and this is a long time ago) and even then the price increase by the number of pieces didn’t matter, there was no need for free moderators there.