Cruel lesson. Russian and Swedish armies in the battle of Narva


The first battle of the Northern War for Russia was the battle of Narva. The military clash between Peter the Great and the modern European army immediately revealed the weakness of the Russian army and the need for deep transformations and reforms in military affairs.


Centuries-old struggle for access to the Baltic Sea


The eastern coast of the Baltic Sea came under Swedish rule during the Livonian War, under King Johan III (1568-1592). In the fall of 1581, the Swedes managed to capture the territory of modern Estonia, Ivangorod and Narva. At the same time, in Narva, “according to custom” (as the Swedish commander in chief Pontus Delagardi put it with charming spontaneity), about seven thousand local residents were killed.

Cruel lesson. Russian and Swedish armies in the battle of Narva

Pontus De La Gardie

In 1583, Russia was forced to conclude the Plyus ceasefire, along which, in addition to Narva, it lost three border fortresses (Ivangorod, Koporye, Yam), preserving only Oreshek and a narrow “corridor” along the Neva to its mouth, a little over 30 km long.

In 1590, the government of Boris Godunov (the nominal king at that time was the moron Fyodor Ivanovich) made an attempt to recover the lost territories. On January 27, the Yam fortress was taken, then the Swedes were forced to yield to Ivangorod, the siege of Narva was unsuccessful. This war continued intermittently until 1595 and ended with the signing of the Tyavzinsky Peace, according to which Russia returned to itself Yam, Ivangorod and Koporye.


Ivangorod and Narva, engraving 1652

Everything changed during the Time of Troubles. Russian-Swedish war of 1610-1617 culminated in the signing of the Stolbov’s peace unfavorable for Russia, according to which in exchange for the return of Novgorod, Porkhov, Staraya Russa, Ladoga, Gdov and Sumerian volost, the new tsar Mikhail Romanov lost to Ivangorod, Yam, Koporye, Oreshek and Korelu, and also pledged to pay an indemnity of 20 thousand rubles.


Border of Russia and Sweden under the Stolbovsky Treaty on a modern map

In Sweden at that time, King Gustav II Adolf ruled, who reformed the army, the first in the world to realize the idea of ​​recruitment. With him, men from 15 to 44 years were taken into recruits. Each soldier and officer received from the state a plot of land that his family members could cultivate, but often he leased it. The government provided its soldiers with a uniform and weapons, and during the war also paid a salary. This initiative was very successful: already in the early 20s of the XNUMXth century, the Danish ambassador informed from Stockholm that the infantry in Sweden was “skillfully trained and well armed”.


Jörg P. Anders. King Gustav II Adolf, 1631

Distinctive features of the Swedish army were its discipline and high morale. Protestant priests carried out a very effective ideological treatment of soldiers in the spirit of the doctrine of Divine Predestination, according to which a person’s life is in the hands of God, and no one will die before his deadline, but no one will survive it.

It's funny that with the beginning of the Northern War, some priests also began to assure the soldiers that Sweden was the God-chosen country - New Israel, and Russia - personifies Assyria: if you read its ancient name "Assur" on the contrary, you get "Russa" (!).

In the Thirty Years War, Sweden lost the “Snow King” Gustav II Adolf, but received Pomerania, part of Brandenburg, as well as Wismar, Bremen, Verdun and became a member of the Holy Roman Empire.


“The Snow King” Gustav II Adolf, statue on the pediment of the town hall of Lutzen, Germany

Under the “silent king” Karl X, Sweden again fought with Russia, the army of Alexei Mikhailovich unsuccessfully besieged Riga, as a result, Moscow had to recognize all the conquests of Sweden in the Baltic states.

The new king, Charles XI, in 1686 subjugated the Swedish church to the crown, seized many plots of land from aristocrats and put public finances in order.


David Klöcker-Ehrenstral. Karl XI Swedish

In 1693, the Riksdag officially called Charles XI "autocratic, ordering everything and disposing of the king, not responsible to anyone on earth for his actions." All this allowed his son to wage war for a long time, "eating up" the accumulated reserves and ruining the prosperous state left to him. There was no legal way to stop this crazy country leading to disaster, so when Charles XII died during the siege of the Fredriksten fortress, versions immediately appeared that he was shot dead by his subordinates.

This king, who ascended the throne on April 14, 1697 at the age of 14 10 months, besides Sweden, owned Finland, Livonia, Karelia, Ingria, the cities of Wismar, Vyborg, the islands of Rügen and Ezel, part of Pomerania, the Duchy of Bremen and Verdun . Sweden lost most of this inheritance through the fault of the Northern War.


Johann Heinrich Wedekind. Portrait of Charles XII

The Scottish historian Anthony F. Upton believed that “in the person of Charles XII Sweden received a charismatic psychopath,” who, if he continued his rule, would have led Sweden to a complete defeat, similar to what Germany experienced under Hitler.

Now let's talk about the beginning of the Northern War, the state of the Russian army and the first big battle of the Russian and Swedish troops - the famous battle of Narva.

Reasons for the Northern War


To a certain extent, Charles XII then had to reap the fruits of the aggressive policy of his predecessors, who sought to turn the Baltic Sea into a “Swedish lake”. In the Northern War, Denmark claimed Schleswig and Holstein-Gottorp, Poland, whose king was the Saxon Elector Augustus Strong - to Livonia (Swedish Livonia) and Riga, Russia - to the Ingermanland and Karelian coast of the Baltic Sea occupied by Sweden.



Livonia and Riga. Livonia is the territory between the Gulf of Riga and Lake Peipsi, and is currently part of Latvia and Estonia.



Ingermanland and Karelia. Ingermanlandia (Ingria) is currently part of the Leningrad Region: from the border with Estonia to the Sestra River on the Karelian Isthmus and from the Gulf of Finland to the Lava River. The Narva fortress was the center of Ingermanland, therefore the first offensive of the Russian army was directed at it.

In Europe, the new Swedish king had a reputation as a windy gallop (well-deserved), so no one expected great feats from him.


Karl XII Konig von Schweden, Austrian National Library

Tradition claims that Charles XII heard the first musket shots only at the beginning of the war: during a landing at Copenhagen, he asked Quartermaster General Stuart about an incomprehensible whistle (which was fired by flying bullets).

At the same time, it is known that the prince shot the first fox at the age of 7 years, the first bear - at 11.

But, perhaps, the sounds of gunshots of a combat musket and a hunting rifle varied significantly and were not similar? In general, imitating the heroes of the sagas, Karl practiced mainly with knives. He later went to the bear with a spear, then - with a club and a pitchfork. And once, Karl and the Duke of Holstein-Gottorp Friedrich (grandfather of the Russian Emperor Peter III) for several days directly in the palace chopped the heads of calves and sheep, trying to do it with one blow.


David Klöcker-Ehrenstral. Frederick IV Holstein-Gottorp

The beginning of the Northern War


The Northern War began in February 1700 with the siege of Riga by the Saxon army of Augustus the Strong.


Nicolas de Largilliere. Augustus the Strong, Elector of Saxony and King of Poland

In March of that year, the Danish troops of King Frederick IV invaded Gottorp-Holstein.


I. Stenglin. Portrait of Frederick IV of Denmark, XVIII century, portrait gallery of the estate Kuskovo

The Swedish king came to the aid of Duke Frederick, who was his friend, cousin and son-in-law (married to the sister of the Swedish king).


David Klöcker-Ehrenstral. The future king of Sweden Karl XII and his older (and beloved) sister Hedwig Sofia, the future wife of the Duke of Gottorp, grandmother of Peter III

At the head of 15 thousand soldiers, Charles XII landed at Copenhagen, and the Danes, who were afraid of losing their capital, signed a peace treaty and left the coalition (August 18, 1700).


A. Bryanchaninov. Landing near Copenhagen in the summer of 1700

In Russia, on August 30, 1700 (according to the Gregorian calendar), Peter I staged a celebration in Moscow on the occasion of the conclusion of peace with Turkey and the acquisition of Azov, at which they burned a "great fireworks." And the very next day the war of Sweden was declared. On September 3, Russian troops advanced towards Narva. And on September 19, Augustus the Strong diverted his troops from Riga. Thus, all plans for the joint conduct of hostilities were violated.

Russian army at the beginning of the Northern War


What army did Peter I bring to Narva?

Traditionally, the Russian army consisted of the militia of the so-called “service people” - for the land allotted to them they had to appear on military service on horseback and with weapons, they were not paid for maintenance during the campaign. The sons of the service people inherited both land and duties. No "military training" was held for them, and therefore the level of combat training of these fighters could only be guessed at. The commanders of this army were appointed not according to their deserts, but according to the nobility of the clan.

The Streltsy regiments, which appeared in 1550, were an attempt to organize the first regular army in Russia. Special taxes were collected for its maintenance - "food money" and "streletsky bread" (later - "streletsky money"). Sagittarius was divided into equestrian (stirrup) and infantry, as well as at the place of stay: Moscow and city (Ukrainian).


Service people and archers, illustration from the dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron


Armament and equipment of the city archer, XVII century. Exhibit of the exhibition "Great Russia", Belgorod Museum of History and Art


Sagittarius armed with wick rifles and berdysh, illustration from the book of V. Fedorov “History rifles »

In peacetime, streltsy performed police functions, and also had to extinguish fires. Soon, the streltsy service became hereditary, which could not be abandoned, but could be transferred to someone from relatives. Sagittarius kept their personal households, engaged in crafts and gardening, and often they did not have time for combat training, and there was no special desire to practice the drill either.

The combat readiness and troops of the service people and the Streltsy regiments already in the late 2500th century caused serious doubts, and therefore, under Boris Godunov, the first regiment was formed, consisting entirely of foreigners. It is believed that its number could reach XNUMX people.

In 1631, the government of Mikhail Romanov decided to hire 5000 foreign soldiers from Protestant countries (Denmark, Sweden, Holland, England).


Soldier of a foreign regiment, illustration from the dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron

However, these mercenaries were very expensive, and therefore it was decided to organize regiments of the "foreign system" of small-local noblemen and the same service people, instructors and commanders in whom foreign officers were to become.


Russian soldier of the foreign regiment


Soldiers of Alexei Mikhailovich and Peter 1

By the end of the reign of Fedor Alekseevich, there were already 63 regiments of such an army.

In 1681, a “commission” under the chairmanship of Prince V.V. Golitsyn proposed appointing officers “without seats and without selection” and on January 12, 1682, the Duma decided to prohibit “counting in places” in the service. In the Kremlin, “Bit books” were solemnly burned, which contained data on a local account, and on which everything was previously determined — from the place at the royal table to the post in the army. So the archaic and very detrimental local system was eliminated.


Unknown artist. Portrait of V.V. Golitsyn, Hermitage

In 1689, when the Russian army under the command of Golitsyn for the second time went to the Crimea, the number of soldiers of the regiments of the foreign system reached 80 thousand people (with a total army of 112 thousand).

But in the army of Peter I in 1695 there were 120 thousand soldiers, and only 14 thousand of them turned out to be soldiers of regiments of the foreign system (they became part of the 30-thousandth corps, which Peter himself led to Azov). And in 1700, at the time of the outbreak of the Northern War, in the Russian army moving towards Narva, there were only four regiments trained and organized according to European standards: Semenovsky and Preobrazhensky Guards, Lefortovo and Butyrsky (total number of regiments - 33, as well as the service militia out of 12 thousand people and 10 thousand Cossacks).

The soldiers of the four above-mentioned regiments, according to the testimony of Saxon General Langen, were tall, as if in selection, well-armed and dressed in uniform, and trained "so well that they would not yield to the German regiments."


Viskovatov V.V. Fuselier of the Life Guards Semenovsky Regiment, from 1700 to 1720


Viskovatov V.V. Private grenadier of the Life Guards Preobrazhensky Regiment, from 1700 to 1732


Viskovatov V.V. Chief officer and headquarters officer of the Life Guards Preobrazhensky Regiment, from 1700 to 1732

The secretary of the Austrian embassy, ​​Korb, spoke of other parts as "a rabble of the most crappy soldiers recruited from the poorest mob." And F. A. Golovin (admiral since 1699, Field Marshal since 1700) claimed that they "couldn’t take up the musket."


Golovin Fedor Alekseevich, portrait of an unknown artist, State Vladimir-Suzdal Museum-Reserve

Thus, we can conclude that, contrary to popular belief, the Russian army in the early years of the reign of Peter I significantly weakened and degraded in comparison with the times of Alexei Mikhailovich, Fedor Alekseevich and Tsarevna Sophia. Prince Ya. F. Dolgoruky in 1717 dared to tell the tsar the truth during a feast: Alexei Mikhailovich "showed the way", but "all his institutions were meaningless ruined." The “closest relatives” of the tsar were probably the Naryshkins, Streshnevs, Lopukhins.

In general, it is difficult to understand what Peter was counting on, directing such an army against the strongest army in Europe, but on August 22, 1700 he nevertheless moved him to Narva.


B. Rastrelli. Bust of Peter I, 1819. Materials: painted wax and plaster, Peter's hair wig, eyes made of glass and enamel

The movement of enemy forces towards Narva


The campaign of the Russian army to Narva was poorly organized, the army was starving and literally bogged down in the mud, there were no horses or carts, carts with food and ammunition were lagging behind. As a result, Russian troops approached Narva only on October 1, 1700. And on the same day, the ships of Charles XII went to Livonia. On them were 16000 foot soldiers and 4000 cavalry.

Peter ordered the command of his troops to the Duke of Croa de Croix, who had previously fought against Turkey in the Austrian army, did not gain the commander’s laurels, and, as unnecessary, was recommended to the Russian allies.


Karl-Eugene Croa de Croix. Portrait from the book of D. N. Bantysh-Kamensky Biographies of Russian Generalissimo and Field Marshals

But Peter trusted the duke, and in order not to impede his actions, personally marking out the fortifications of the Russian camp, he left for Novgorod.

Narva was defended by the detachment of General Horn, numbering about 1000 people. This city could not be called a strong fortress, but Russian artillery, which began shelling its walls, quickly consumed the entire supply of shells.


View of Narva in the XNUMXth century. Engraving

He did not dare to storm the city, and therefore he surrounded the city with a line of trenches, which had the appearance of an arc resting on its ends against the river bank. The siege of Narva lasted 6 weeks, but the city was never taken until the Swedish army approached.

Meanwhile, B.P. Sheremetev, at the head of the five-thousandth detachment of the noble cavalry, was sent to Revel and Pernov (Pärnu).


Portrait of Boris Petrovich Sheremetev. Engraving by P. Antipyev according to the original by I. Argunov

Here he encountered the Swedish troops sent by Charles XII for reconnaissance and defeated them. Karl continued his movement, dividing his small army into three parts. The first corps covered the movement from the south (the king was afraid of the approach of the troops of Augustus the Strong), the second went to Pskov, the third - went around Sheremetev’s detachment, who, fearing the environment, led his cavalrymen towards Narva.

Sheremetev acted quite reasonably, but Peter intervened, who accused him of cowardice and ordered him to return. Here, too far advanced Russian cavalry fell Charles XII himself with the main part of his army (about 12 thousand people). With a small number of his soldiers, Sheremetev still managed to get out of the encirclement and on November 18 to come to Narva with news of the movement of the Swedes.

Battle of Narva


On November 19, Charles XII came to the Russian camp, who at that time had only 8500 soldiers.

"How? Do you doubt that with my eight thousand brave Swedes I will get the upper hand over eighty thousand Muscovites? ”The king said to his close associates. And, almost immediately threw his army into battle.


Bernard Picart. Charles XII at Narva, engraving


Marc Grieves. Caroliners in the battle of Narva

His artillery defeated the fortifications of the Russian camp, and the Swedes shouted, “God be with us!” Two columns advanced into the attack.


A. Kotzebue. Battle of Narva

Recall that the Russian troops, significantly superior to the army of Charles XII, were stretched around Narva for seven miles, so that at all points they were weaker than the Swedes. Weather conditions favored the Caroliners: a strong wind pushed the Swedish soldiers into the back, their opponents were blinded by a blizzard.


Gustav Ankarkron. Battle of Narva

Within half an hour, the center of Russian positions was broken, and panic began. Someone shouted: “The Germans changed!”, And this was the last straw: the soldiers killed foreign officers and fled to the bridge, which collapsed under them - could not bear the weight of hundreds of fleeing people.


Marc Grieves. Soldiers of the Nerke-Vermland Regiment break into the Russian camp near Narva

The Duke de Croix with the words: “Let the devil himself fight at the head of such soldiers!” Surrendered with his entire headquarters. Demoralized Russian officers and generals also surrendered. The Sheremetev cavalry, which could have bypassed the Swedes, also fled, while about a thousand people drowned in Narova.

But the battle did not end there. On the right flank, the regiments of the new system resisted - Preobrazhensky, Semenovsky and Lefortovsky, which were joined by soldiers of the Golovin division. Surrounding themselves with carts and slingshots, they repulsed the attacks of the Swedes. Adam Weide's division, which had risen in the square, continued to fight on the left flank.


General Adam Weide, the son of an officer from the German settlement, began his service in the Amusement Troops of Peter I

The battle in these areas was so fierce that a horse was killed under King Charles himself, Major General Johan Ribbing was killed, and generals K. G. Renschild and G. Yu. Maidel were wounded.

In the Swedish army that day, too, was far from all right. Two detachments of caroliners, not recognizing their blizzards, attacked each other and suffered losses. Other Swedish soldiers, breaking into the Russian camp, could not resist the temptation and began to rob him, leaving the battle.

Meanwhile, the forces of the Russian regiments that continued to fight were comparable with the size of the entire Swedish army at Narva, and if their commanders had enough endurance and composure, the outcome of the battle could be completely different. At the very least, the shame of surrender could well have been avoided. But the flanks of the Russian army acted in isolation, their generals did not know what was happening with their neighbors, had no information about the number of Swedes opposing them. Having survived the enemy’s blows, right-wing generals Y. Dolgorukov, I. Buturlin and A. Golovin entered into negotiations with Charles XII. For the right of unhindered departure, they handed over all artillery to the Swedes - a total of 184 guns were left.


3 pound gun of the Semenovsky regiment (1700)

Only after learning about this, did Adam Weide stop the resistance.

The Swedes violated the contract, freely letting in only soldiers of the guard regiments. The rest were robbed "without a trace", having lost not only weapons, but also tents and "all belongings." Generals and officers of higher ranks, contrary to the agreement, were not released. In total, 10 generals and about 70 officers remained in captivity.


Gustav Sederström. Triumph near Narva

The Georgian prince Alexander was also captured. Learning about this, Carl said:

“It’s the same as if I had been captured by the Crimean Tatars!”


The king did not suspect that he would have to spend several years on the territory of the Ottoman Empire, surrounded by the Janissaries guarding him. (This episode of the biography of Charles XII was described in the article: Ryzhov V.A. "Vikings" against the Janissaries. The incredible adventures of Charles XII in the Ottoman Empire.)
The remnants of the army were saved by B. Sheremetev, who gathered on the other side of the demoralized soldiers and led their retreat to Novgorod. Here Peter I met them with the words:

"They will beat us more than once, but, in the end, they will teach us to win."


The results and consequences of the Narva battle


The Russian army near Narva lost about 6 thousand soldiers, but, together with the sick and wounded, up to 12 thousand dropped out. The Swedes lost 3 thousand people.

The battle of Narva had a number of serious consequences. It was with her that the European glory of Charles XII began, as a great commander, the new Alexander of Macedon. In addition to human and material, Russia suffered significant reputation losses, its international authority was badly damaged.


Swedish medal in honor of the victory at Narva. On one side Peter I is depicted basking in the fire of cannons firing at Narva, on the other - he is crying from Narva

But this battle strengthened the king in the opinion of the weaknesses of Russia and the Russian army, which later led to a terrible defeat at Poltava. Peter, having received time to replenish and rebuild the army, used this "lesson" in full.

The worst situation was with the replenishment of artillery: in Russia there simply was not the right amount of metal of suitable quality. I had to collect the bells of churches and monasteries. This story continued already in the time of Catherine II: a delegation of the clergy appeared to the Empress, who, referring to Peter's unfulfilled promise to compensate for the losses, asked "to return the favor." A well-known historical anecdote is narrated about the future - in the original meaning of the word (the Secret History by Procopius of Caesarea is considered the first collections of anecdotes, the opposite according to his own “History of War”). Catherine, allegedly, requested materials on this case, where she discovered an indecent resolution of Peter. And she answered the delegates that she, as a woman, could not even offer them the organ indicated by Peter.

Only 2 weeks after the seemingly catastrophic defeat at Narva, Sheremetev, who had fled from this fortress, attacked the Swedish detachment of General Schlippenbach at Marienburg, was forced to withdraw, but Schlippenbach was not successful when he tried to pursue him. A year later (December 29, 1701) at Erestfer, Sheremetev’s troops inflicted the first defeat on the Schlippenbach corps, for which the Russian commander received the rank of Field Marshal and the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called. Schlippenbach was then defeated twice in 1702.

Looking ahead, let's say that Volmar Schlippenbach was captured during the Battle of Poltava, in 1712 he entered the Russian service with the rank of major general, rose to the rank of lieutenant general and member of the military collegium.


Wolmar Anton Schlippenbach

Ahead were the victories of the Russians at Good, Lesnaya, Poltava and Gangute, but the story of these battles is beyond the scope of this article.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 December 2019 06: 44 New
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    Thank you very much Valery for the essay!
    It seems that the topic has gone away, but in your interpretation it plays with new colors. And in the literal sense - thanks for the illustrations!
    Honestly, he did not know about Schlippenbach's Russian career. From Swedish Field Marshals to Russian Major Generals!
    Regards, Vlad!
    And all a good weekend !!!
    1. Bar2 21 December 2019 21: 05 New
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      Tsar Peter conquered the mouth of the Neva and built the city of St. Petersburg there, but if you look at the old maps of the 16th century, we see that the Russian city of Oreshek was located at the mouth of the Neva a long time ago. Later, the maps were redone for a new interpretation and the city of Oreshek became not source. But everyone understands that this version was rewritten under Peter.
      Here is a map of Paolo Farlani for i568. we see on it that the city of Oreshek was located exactly at the mouth of the Neva.



      You can bring more cards of the 16th century.
      1. kupitman 23 December 2019 12: 49 New
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        Well, a fortress at the mouth of the Neva, then what? P1 did not fight with the Swedes? did not build Peter?
        1. Bar2 23 December 2019 15: 32 New
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          Quote: kupitman
          Well, a fortress at the mouth of the Neva, then what? P1 did not fight with the Swedes? did not build Peter?


          it has long been clear that all these local European warfare is just a story written this way. If you want to know the truth, then just include the existence of Great Tartaria (this is Darius or Dardaria according to the rules of literature), which is on all medieval maps including 19 century and you will understand who fought with whom and for what.
          There was one Great War of the Russian World and the World of the medieval Roman Empire of the Germans SRIG in which the Russians inexplicably lost. Well, given that the Hebrew language Yiddish and German are one and the same, it becomes even more clear.
          1. kupitman 25 December 2019 12: 21 New
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            Before the nuclear war of 1814 there was a highly developed civilization, and you are talking about Tartaria. So it is not known whether he was this P1 or not, all this was invented by historians in order to deceive us. But what exactly is known is the gigantic volume of ore production, only civilization with an understanding in mechanics could afford this, etc.
          2. nickname7 18 March 2020 18: 37 New
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            The great war of the Russian World and the World of the medieval Roman Empire of the Germans SRIG in which the Russians inexplicably lost.

            Why should winners erase the memory of victory? That's bullshit. They never erase the memory of their victories; on the contrary, they are proud of victories. At the level of common sense, your theory is nonsense.
            The Roman Empire collapsed in 1453 and could not wage war on the Russian world.
            Moreover, the Romans and Germans are different nations.

            Hebrew Yiddish and German are one and the same it is becoming even more clear.

            The Sephardim expelled from Spain, settled in Germany and switched to Surzhik - Yiddish, which becomes clearly decidedly incomprehensible.
            Therefore, OI steers, as it uses the best method of cognition invented by humanity - scientific method of cognition. With the help of which you can cut off fantasies, fraud, random errors. One can fantasize ad infinitum, and the mind is limited, therefore one cannot do without the scientific method, otherwise we will drown in scholasticism.
      2. nickname7 18 March 2020 18: 02 New
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        the mouth of the Neva was a long time ago the Russian city of Oreshek.

        And how can this refute St. Petersburg?
        Suppose that there was Oreshek, but it was a provincial bear corner, to whom did he pay tribute to the Swedes there? And then a European city was built, with palaces and fountains, the capital of the state.
        Settlements of Neolithic people, or even some settlements do not refute the construction of a new quality - the capital, Tsar Peter 1.

        Later, the maps were redone for a new interpretation and the city of Oreshek became not the mouth of the river, but at the source.

        Why are these substitutions, rewritings for new interpretations? In your opinion, can a city be founded only where a Neanderthal’s foot hasn’t set foot?
  2. sergo1914 21 December 2019 07: 22 New
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    Good article. Thank.
  3. Andrey Sukharev 21 December 2019 07: 33 New
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    An interesting series of articles, especially since the topic of the beginning of the Northern War was little covered in popular science literature. Thank!
  4. Basil50 21 December 2019 07: 34 New
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    So this is what really happened to the general public. Thanks to the author.
    But that war is almost a model of lies. The Swedes have written and are writing a lot. But he never met in the Swedish writings either about the assimilation of the occupied territories, nor about much more, including how they seized land in the east of the Baltic Sea and where did the indigenous population go? But a lot of crying about the Swedes and their slaves who were then thrown out of the occupied lands.
    Today, something similar to WWII is happening in Europe. The Germans and other Caucasians write a lot of things * rethinking *. At the same time, they cry about the * innocent dead * in Europe without mentioning the genocide against RUSSIAN PEOPLE. But especially a lot of lies about the fighting. It turns out that the Germans and their hangers-on fought so * valiantly * but they had to retreat or surrender, and much more like that
    1. Trilobite Master 21 December 2019 11: 09 New
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      Quote: Vasily50
      But never met in the Swedish scriptures nor about the assimilation of the occupied territories

      Having captured Ingermanland, the Swedes invited everyone to leave it without hindrance, and the rest - to take the oath to the Swedish king. Many have left. Families from the interior of Finland, exclusively Protestant religion, were forcibly relocated to their place. A lot of people with Finnish surnames live in the Leningrad Region, especially in the Vsevolozhsk district - all these are descendants of those same settlers who, after Peter conquered these lands, decided to swear allegiance to the Russian Tsar. There are also many toponyms of Finnish origin - in the Vsevolozhsk region the names of most rural settlements have Finnish roots - all this since then.
      There was no genocide, neither on either side.
      1. Pane Kohanku 23 December 2019 13: 27 New
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        A lot of people with Finnish surnames live in the Leningrad Region, especially in the Vsevolozhsk district - all these are descendants of those same settlers who, after Peter conquered these lands, decided to swear allegiance to the Russian Tsar.

        Michael, I’ll add - the Finns lived on the territory of the modern Kingisepp district, in other words, closer to the border with modern Estonia. A little touch:
        In the village of Bolshoy Kuzemkino (Kurgalsky Peninsula), the Lutheran parish was founded by 1640. In 1879, a new stone church was laid there. Here is her modern look.

        In the 30s: the parish was dissolved, services ceased, the church library was destroyed, the pastor was repressed. The stone fence of the church was dismantled. They write that they used it both as a prison and as a club.
        The church reborn during the war. The Germans, where they could, tried to put pressure on the religious feelings of the people, so they opened the church, and the services were served by a specially written Finnish military pastor, J. Jääskelainen (pictured on the far left).

        https://a-121.ru/kirxa-svyatogo-andreya-v-derevne-bolshoe-kuzemkino-ot-xrama-do-tyurmy-i-obratno/
        1. Trilobite Master 23 December 2019 20: 42 New
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          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          I will add - the Finns lived in the territory of modern Kingisepp district

          Yes, Nikolay, I agree. Kingisepp, Lomonosov and Volosovsky districts were also heavily populated by Finnish immigrants in those days - in the XNUMXth century. between the Stolbovsky world and Petrovsky "reconquista". But most of all, it seems to me they were still in the current Vsevolozhsk region. I can only list three churches of the XNUMXth century as a keepsake. - in Toksovo, in Vsevolozhsk on Rumbolovskaya Hill (maybe it was built later, I don’t remember exactly here) and in Koltushi. In Toksovo and Koltushi - exactly the first half of the XVII century.
          And if you go through the local cemeteries, there still about thirty percent of the names end with -onen or -inen - Pelkonen, Parkinen, Virolainen, etc. Well, look at place names - in general it is darkness, there are almost no Russian names.
          Still, the west of the Leningrad region was assimilated by the Slavs much earlier and more qualitatively than the Karelian Isthmus.
          1. Pane Kohanku 24 December 2019 09: 40 New
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            I can only list three churches of the XNUMXth century as a keepsake. - in Toksovo, in Vsevolozhsk on Rumbolovskaya Hill (maybe it was built later, I don’t remember exactly here) and in Koltushi. In Toksovo and Koltushi - exactly the first half of the XVII century.

            Lutheran church was also on the territory of modern Lomonosov (in Martyshkino), back in the 17th century, the parish of Türe. A holy place does not happen empty, therefore, and now in Martyshkino there is a church, just of the 19th century.
            Interestingly reported by Wikipedia:
            During the Swedish rule, the Lutheran parish of Retusaari on the island of Kotlin was a drip parish of Türö.
            Hmm .. I did not check this information. But it turns out that before Kotlin until 1703 there was some kind, albeit small, but a settlement? An interesting movie, I have never heard that the island was "inhabited" until the moment when Tsar Peter decided to build batteries there and build Kronshlot - the first sea fort. hi
            Well, and about how rich our land is with talents. In the 17th century, in the village of Skvoritsy, in the Gatchina district, a son was born in the family of a pastor (!) - Urban Jerne. He became the founder of Swedish chemistry, and wrote the first Swedish textbook on it. It seems that pastor-father Jerne had good genes, and he adequately raised his sons, because the older brother of Urban - Thomas became a poet and writer. hi And the current church of the parish, built in the 19th century, stands in the village of Petrovo, nearby, and it is huge.
        2. Trilobite Master 23 December 2019 21: 01 New
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          To illustrate what is written, a fragment of a monument to fallen fellow villagers in Koltushi.
          1. Pane Kohanku 24 December 2019 09: 25 New
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            To illustrate what is written, a fragment of a monument to fallen fellow villagers in Koltushi.

            Yeah. A good third of the soldiers are with Finnish surnames. Bright memory....
    2. Basil50 22 December 2019 07: 12 New
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      trilobite
      I understand that the ancient ... hard to read, but not to the same extent ......
      Today it is available to read what the Swedes wrote and how they substantiated their right to their own * foolishness *. It was then that they became shy and democratic, after they had been given splash.
      By the way, the Swedes were the first in Europe to jail those who dared not to believe official historiography, and it began as early as the middle of the eighteenth century
      1. Trilobite Master 23 December 2019 20: 26 New
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        Just noticed your message.
        If you want to be answered, address your remarks directly to the interlocutor, and not to yourself. Of course, I understand that you are a more pleasant conversationalist for you, but in this case you can simply transfer notes to yourself, it is not necessary to publish them here.
        Quote: Vasily50
        hard to read but not to the same extent

        It is not difficult if the writing is worthy of it. Any nonsense, such as Rodnovers, Novokhronolodets, etc., is really difficult, because they cannot convince themselves of the need to spend time on this nonsense.
        Quote: Vasily50
        Today it is available to read what the Swedes wrote

        And what? I became interested. If this is available, then you probably will not be bothered to send a link?
  5. bya965 21 December 2019 08: 09 New
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    It is also necessary to write that Peter I is one of the worst rulers in history, or rather du ... with initiative.
    For example, Kutuzov surrendered Moscow, so as not to risk losing, but this one near Poltava put everything at stake, ours were just lucky. Let us recall the prohibitions on building stone houses in my vast country, except for St. Petersburg, on cut down centuries-old forests near Veliky Novgorod, on Dutch cows, the tsar did not understand that cows are kept for our shit (nitrogen fertilizers) and for grazing (where the cows are drive) the peasants fought fields. There are no villages burning roof barrels, such as in Holland (a backward country at that time compared to Russia), he just didn’t know that everything freezes in the winter and the water barrel too. Reduced the population of my country roofing felts by a quarter toli by a third. And his liberals and democrats love him. Ivan the Terrible sowed the Germans at the border, and this smart landed them in the capital.

    About the fleet
    https://topwar.ru/3711-pervyj-russkij-flot-piraty-groznogo-carya.html
    https://topwar.ru/160309-russkij-morskoj-otaman-karsten-rode.html

    In the XIX-XX centuries in Russia and abroad the opinion was formed that the pre-Peter artillery was technically backward. But, here are the facts: in 1646, the Tula-Kamensk factories supplied Holland with more 600 guns, and in 1647, 360 guns of 4,6 caliber and 8 pounds. In 1675, the Tula-Kamensk factories shipped cast iron cannons, 116 cores, 43892 grenades, 2934 musket trunks, 2356 swords and 2700 iron poods abroad. ”
    https://topwar.ru/31083-rus-iznachalnaya-zachem-evropeycy-vrut.html
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 December 2019 10: 42 New
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      It is also necessary to write that Peter I is one of the worst rulers in history, or rather du ... with initiative.

      Petya - “ghoul, antichrist and tyrant”, atu his atu !!!
      Now seriously. There is much that warps me a lot in Peter I - Moscow Russia made me shave, study abroad, smoke and eat foreign muck - potatoes! His grandfathers and great-grandfathers used steamed turnip with sturgeon, black caviar and hare, and slept in the afternoon! "Coy Russian, after a well-fed dinner according to the law of Archimedes, does not want to take a little nap!"
      And now it’s not serious! The sluggish and obscure policies of the first Romanovs dragged the Russian state from one external conflict to another dragging a growing com of internal problems! At the same time, having generated the worst of our misfortune - a split !!! Peter, by and large, did not solve the problems inherited from him, but he personally cut out of the chopped ones:
      -An ax of streltsy building a new army;
      - a plane - the fleet;
      - pen - the state!
      Can this be done with less blood and not breaking people on the knee? From today's bell tower it seems that yes it is possible, but the young lady is capricious and plays music once for one person! Let even this man the sovereign of a sickly state !!! So Petya played! Leaving behind the army and navy, new lands and the capital! Instead of the "weak" two factories on the Stone Belt - thirty that in the last years of his life began to "cast" Europe with cast iron and iron! And this is only one of the factors !!! About the ban on stone construction, pouring bells and womanhood can be argued for a long time! What is better than a stone monastery in the village of Petushki, Ryazan region, or Nevsky Prospect in North Palmyra? Decide for yourself!
      Make a conclusion regarding Peter yourself, but my opinion is Peter, although he is a “ghoul”, but our ghoul! I am sincerely closer in spirit to the emperor, the blacksmith, the carpenter, and the ship !!!
      Yours!
      1. Trilobite Master 21 December 2019 12: 58 New
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        Good day, Vladislav.
        I wanted to answer "tovarisch" in my own style, but you got ahead of me in yours. smile I decided that I would not duplicate, just add a little to your comment.
        I already somehow compared Peter's reforms with the construction of a new house using modern technologies instead of the old grandfather's hut. Of course, there is a certain charm in heating a house with wood - live fire, coals in the firebox, poker, ash from a blower. Some find delights in the amenities in the courtyard - putting on a sheepskin coat, walking barefoot on a starry winter evening or on a sparkling frosty morning, walking up to the wind, breathing in the sparkling, or vice versa, dense dark blue air ... But how pleasant the summer breeze blows across the ass driving away mosquitoes! ..
        Here to whom what.
        Someone wants to eat the meat of Dutch cows, and someone wants to de (p) Russian, to each his own, because from time immemorial
        Quote: bya965
        we keep cows for their shit
        laughing wassat
        I have a question for you, Vladislav. And what do you think, these "petrophobes", "Rodnover" and other Dolboslavs thought about what enlightened Europe would do to us if Peter had not put the country on its ears, creating an advanced army, at that time, and at least some fleet? Where would Charles XII lead his armies, who was already besieging Poltava, where Frederick the Great would end his campaigns, and which of his unloved relatives Napoleon Bonaparte would present to Moscow, like nobody needs a poor piece of a dirty outback with a national savage flavor?
        My opinion is this: if the predecessors of Peter had not suffered garbage for almost seventy years and Peter would not have had to cut his beards with an ax, the boyars would. It is a pity that one more such Peter was not found in Russia in one hundred fifty-two hundred years, but there is nothing to be done: the monarchy is always a lottery, and Russia was not lucky at the most inopportune moment.
        1. bya965 21 December 2019 16: 20 New
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          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Someone wants to eat the meat of Dutch cows, and someone wants to de (p) Russian, to each his own, because from time immemorial
          Quote: bya965
          we keep cows for their shit
          laughing wassat

          I’m sorry that you don’t think. Peter I brought expensive Dutch cows, which gave 10-12 liters of milk, but they had to eat 2-3 kg of grain, which the peasants themselves lacked, but our cows gave 2-3 liters of milk to children and could even eat thatch from the roof.
          Your reasoning is similar to Peter I, superficial and not understanding the essence.

          Read the links from my first comment.
          1. Trilobite Master 21 December 2019 17: 49 New
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            Quote: bya965
            Your reasoning is similar to Peter I,

            For me this is a compliment, although I do not really understand how reasoning can be like someone else.
            I don’t know where you get the information that you’re setting out about the milk yield of Russian and Dutch cows, and about the norms of consumption of forage by them. But judging by the sources to which you refer, certain assumptions may arise from me.
            Quote: bya965
            Read the links from my first comment.

            The first is Samsonov. I have repeatedly expressed my opinion on his work on a historical field. If you did not have the opportunity to familiarize yourself with it earlier, my profile and comments for yesterday and the day before are at your service. And in short - complete nonsense, deserving the attention of psychiatrists exclusively.
            The second link is to an article by today's author about the service of the Danish pirate Ivan the Terrible. I draw your attention to the fact that besides this Dane, who was hired by Ivan for privateering in the Baltic, there were no other military vessels in this region. Which of your thoughts did you want to illustrate with this article, I do not understand.
            The third link is an ancient article by an anonymous author. It was enough for me to read the first few lines to understand what I was dealing with. The city of Slovensk, "The Legend of Slovene and Rus", probably there was also mentioned the Veles book, did not begin to read further. I know all this nonsense and love how I loved listening to Zadornov’s speeches - such nonsense, but funny. By the way, I giggled over his films too, until I realized that he was serious. Thought - troll people.
            Accordingly, it is possible to make assumptions that you suck all the other theses out of your finger and take it out of context, as is the case with the article on Carsten Rode, or use sources of knowledge, whose place, at best, is in the case history of the patient Kashchenko.
            But where are you doing industrial development, the reorganization of the army, the creation of the fleet by Peter I, the expansion of the territory of the Russian Empire, the construction of cities, fortresses, the access to two seas, the development of trade ...
            And in general, some people are weird here.
            Ivan the Terrible chopped down the boyars' heads - normal, cracked down on European agents.
            Stalin shot the Lenin Guard - ok, cracked down on agents of Europe
            Peter the boyars hung on a rack - a bloody ghoul, destroyed the Russian identity.
            Ivan the Terrible established archers on the models of the European armies - well done, adopted the best practices.
            Stalin mechanized the army as in Europe, abandoning the "invincible Budyon cavalry" - well done, adopted the best practices.
            Peter I dispersed the rabble, who called himself military before him and created a regular army for the first time in our history - an agent of Western influence.
            And there are many such comparisons.
            Guys, where is the logic? laughing
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 December 2019 21: 04 New
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            Your reasoning is similar to Peter I, superficial and not understanding the essence

            Let’s speculate?
            What is better for a peasant, one cow giving 10-12 liters of milk, requiring high-quality feed and care, or a domestic cow eating straw from his hut!
            The dilemma is not even that it’s better for the peasant children of the owner to stay without a roof or without food, well, excuse me “wretched”, the nightmare of a cow raiding the serf huts in order to eat straw from the roof is before my eyes !!! According to this, the most interesting thing is, after a burenka, once and two or three liters of milk, well, "do not keep the evil master - this is for your children by the roof!" Damn it!
            You’re a native cow, have you ever seen in real life ???? Or just on TV?
            The Yaroslavl motley meat breed - a direct descendant of the peasant burenka of the pre-Petrine era - is a tank with horns that eats at least ten kilograms of pulp or millet per day! He will definitely think of straw from the roof two times, the first time to the “owner” who will offer this to her by the horn to the barrel, the second - by the hoof into the temple!
            To be honest, such a breed can also get grass from under the snow, but ...... The question is, in which Russia did the straw cover the roof? We had a larch shingle on our roof (in two lines)! Seven rows of logs piled up a fathom-high hut! Cattle, unlike central Russia, were not kept in their homes, only young animals. Burenki lived with us in the snacks! Calves, chickens and piglets yes. There are no cows. But here is another question, the average temperature in the winter season for -20 '.
            Now we think further, the pro-Western Peter (he was replaced in the Netherlands) brought a total of slightly more than 200 cattle! It is interesting how soon Holstein and Dutch cows began to break in the door to our peasants and demand 3 kg of grain for a couple of horns, for 12 liters of milk! And in grams, to which almost a hundred years remained with a hook !!! Breeding cattle, alas, contrary to your opinion and the aspirations of our peasantry, was a long process, so the descendants of the Kholmogory cows did not supplant the native Russian breed after a century or even two! The selection was finally completed in the 70s of the last century! So, based on your comment, the burenki didn’t hawk straw, but set up raids for slate and roofing iron !!!
            Well, the last Dutch burenki "baked" by you, too, burst not 2-3 kg of selected grain, but all 8-10.
            Well, somewhere like that!
            1. bya965 22 December 2019 06: 03 New
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              For about 15 years, for two years I mowed hay (about ha per day) for two weeks on vacation for two milking cows of 1-2 bull-calves from my mother-in-law, although urban.
              You do not confuse then and now. Analogy. We can’t say that this weapon is better, and it’s worse because it all depends on who, as in a compartment with other weapons, it will be used.
              Since Peter the Great was a typical upper guard, he did not understand what kind of way the peasantry had. So it can be compared with our typical reformers.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 12: 23 New
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                One hectare in Lithuanian during the day? This is my norm at fifteen, on a slope.
                The fact that Peter in a number of issues was "overlooking" I do not argue, but? Being the sovereign of a frail state, surprisingly different, he possessed competencies in almost 20 professions! Can you create a ship of the line project without a calculator and smartphone, and even tracing paper and culman?
                Me not! And he did !!!
                The structure of the peasantry did not suffer because of the interference of the authorities in its affairs, but because of the Northern War! Which pumped out resources from the broadest and most defenseless strata of the population of our peasantry! The idea of ​​Peter was not bad, really let the performance down! After all, he really created a system of social elevators, made the serving estate of the nobility serve !!! By the way, the introduction of potatoes into agricultural circulation covers all his mistakes in this sphere!
                Other decisions of Peter cause much more controversial feelings. For example, the ban on the construction of ships "without a single nail"! The normal desire is to create a reusable instead of a one-time river fleet. The decree expressly states that merchants in Ladoga are not “trampling” !!! Well, the merchants continued to build old-style ships, translate timber, sink right at the berths. And what, and the truth is somewhere in the middle !!!
                Regards, Kote!
                1. Oleg Kolsky 051 22 December 2019 20: 09 New
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                  At the expense of potatoes, I read that the first potatoes were brought to Russia under Anna Ioannovna, and mass plantings started somewhere in the second half of the 18th century. And Peter brought Jerusalem artichoke to Russia.
                  1. VLR
                    VLR 22 December 2019 20: 23 New
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                    Yes, it’s Jerusalem artichoke
                2. bya965 22 December 2019 20: 47 New
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                  1 ha is a football field, from morning to evening it is not easy, but it is possible, but I only need a relief (it is difficult if the floodplain) and the grass can be twisted. Mowed 8-9, 7-ka too light, decathlon thrower.
                  If you are dead, do not judge others. Peter is the current reformers, the same. That Stalin is a genius. Not without errors, of course, but in the total it is. He studied all his life so that officials wouldn’t hang noodles on his ears. A techie, not like the current lawyers (Medvede & Putin), they don’t even understand in economics what to speak about technology.
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 21: 03 New
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                    They smiled! Three years ago, a friend and I took 4 hectares in one day! My scythe 10, special artinsky forging! More precisely, I have three of them, one of stainless steel, but it’s a fire under the seeder!
                    As for the dead kids, I play a two-pound kettlebell! I can do two with a fool, but my wife swears - I feel sorry for the floor!
                    About Stalin! The latter had an incomplete spiritual education (seminary), so in any case he was not a techie. In addition, Joseph Stalin read a lot, but not technical literature, but ancient literature, philosophers and historical works! Again not a techie !!!
                    Medvedev does not impress me, although in August 2008 he acted boldly and correctly! I am interested in Putin, like something, something not! In his case, education is secondary, not the same level and age gives its way !!!
          3. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 07 New
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            Quote: bya965
            Peter I brought expensive Dutch cows, which gave 10-12 liters of milk,

            cows from Holland and Germany were written out by rich people. Not necessarily a king. Although, at his request, even Anchen was discharged European animals
            But the Naryshkins, Brovkins wrote out for themselves.
            I must say that in good hands they felt good and effective. But most have degenerated. After all, in addition to buying a couple / dozen, you also need selection ...
            But this was not in RI.Vot and degenerated. And if also inexperienced people, they generally turned into ineffective ones quickly.
            You must always consider the climate factor. In Russia, the main problem is the climate. Lack of moisture and lack of proper insolation.
            As a result, cattle quickly turns from dairy to meat and that's it. Trite lack of feed and a short season.
            In general, it’s a good thing, but you should always do it, and not try to buy everything further on your own.
            In a couple of years, any cow from the Netherlands will be like a native Russian. Anglicsk sheep will also be domestic.
            Trying to transplant a European branch to Russia is a rather difficult task. After all, the basis is completely different. But the system was not changed. And it all starts with the climate ... which formed the whole country.
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 December 2019 16: 57 New
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          Michael, I subscribe to every word smoke with your word !!!
          Occasionally sprinkling the history of his native land, sometimes you look in amazement at the people who raised it!
          For example! The rafting of the “cast-iron barge” in the flood along the Chusova River is on the verge of a madman. Speed ​​from 15 to 30 km / h, around fighters (rocks), rapids and rifts in the water. The names of the Chusovsky, Ufa and Serginsky fighters alone speak for themselves: Killer, Robber, Chugunny, Chertov, Popov pogost, etc. ..... and this is the main transport and logistics system for delivering metal products to the central regions of Russia until the beginning of the twentieth century! !!!!!!
          An example of the second! The speed of construction of factories and iron-making manufactories: 1 year - dam, 2 year - first cast iron, 3 year - alloy of goods to European markets!
          Example 3. The phenomenon of chicks of Petrov’s nest! There is no point in continuing!
          Regards, Vlad!
        3. Ptolemy Lag 23 December 2019 11: 27 New
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          Found. The new red emperor was I.V. Stalin!
      2. bya965 21 December 2019 16: 25 New
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        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Instead of the "weak" two factories on the Stone Belt - thirty that in the last years of his life began to "cast" Europe with cast iron and iron! And this is only one of the factors !!! About the ban on stone construction, pouring bells and womanhood can be argued for a long time! What is better than a stone monastery in the village of Petushki, Ryazan Region, or Nevsky Prospect in North Palmyra? Decide for yourself!
        Make a conclusion regarding Peter yourself, but my opinion is Peter, although he is a “ghoul”, but our ghoul! I am sincerely closer in spirit to the emperor, the blacksmith, the carpenter, and the ship !!!


        The Romanovs wrote a story for themselves. Nemchura in one word. The Romanovs had only one more or less normal Tsar Alexander III.
        By the way, from time to time, there are Russophobes who claim that all this cannot be, since even “highly progressive and developed England and France” have learned to cast iron ... only in the 19 century. Yes, but let's go to the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg. One of the cast-iron cannons, cast by our ancestors in 1600, there is cheekyly lying on a pedestal for everyone to see. People do not believe that Russia, throughout its history and in all respects, has overtaken Europe by approximately two centuries. But ...

        https://topwar.ru/31083-rus-iznachalnaya-zachem-evropeycy-vrut.html
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 December 2019 21: 24 New
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          . By the way, from time to time, there are Russophobes who claim that all this cannot be, because even “highly progressive and developed England and France” learned to cast iron ... only in the 19th century.

          What can not be?
          You should look into the capital of our Fatherland, Moscow, the Kremlin - guns !!! In addition to Russian, Polish and Swedish, there are whole logs of the great army of Napoleon!
          By the way, in the above article, Valery mentions that under Narva we lost over 150 guns! Iiiiii? They didn’t even sneeze. Under Poltava, we again had double superiority in artillery!
          1. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 15 New
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            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            They didn’t even sneeze. Under Poltava, we again had double superiority in artillery!

            not really. Without the Narva guns, they were straining their last forces to restore the park. Having bought in Europe and at home, using metal where we could get it.
            Let me remind you that even historical guns (Bear, for example) of Chokhov were lost near Narva. Which were of more value than just artillery for the history of Russia.
            As for the Swedes, all of their guns were "lost" in Lesnaya and Baturin (more precisely, they joined the tsarist army, in the latter about 300)
            And it doesn’t matter how many guns Renschild had near Poltava ... there wasn’t even gunpowder to Poltava ..
            The siege of the poorly fortified city dragged on due to the lack of gunpowder.
            And for this, thanks to Karl himself, who, instead of connecting to the corps, left, and the corps became easy prey. Then they did such a trick with Baturin ..
            In general, Karl’s logic is hard to understand ... He probably thought that the center of the universe was never wrong ... Caution is cowardice for him.
      3. Oleg Kolsky 051 22 December 2019 19: 46 New
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        Good evening. I agree with you in many ways. Yes, and you need to understand that decisions had to be made-here and now, and not later, somehow. It must be remembered that a division of the world was already underway with that wretched army of archers, not terrible external enemies, but terrible for its rulers, something like Turkish Janissaries (by the way, they had finished about the same as archers) Russia was not a player, but prey .
        And Peter's cruelty to the archer is a memory of how his uncles threw spears before his eyes. Children's lesson has been learned.
        1. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 20 New
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          Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
          And Peter's cruelty to the archer is a memory of how his uncles threw spears before his eyes. Children's lesson has been learned.

          hostility and children's horror of Matveev’s death in front of his eyes (and archers could have killed him in the same way) most likely aggravated the character traits of the future tsar.
          Archers' riots and their behavior during the fighting also played a role.
          Peter was cruel to everyone. Sagittarius was one of them. And they themselves were to blame, having formed an attitude towards themselves.
          All the rulers create their army. The king had to do it. Starting with the funny ones. On the lancet spears no one has been able to stretch for a long time.
      4. Mitya2424 23 December 2019 12: 09 New
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        I agree with everything, but Petushki in the Vladimir region !!!!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2019 04: 34 New
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          Quote: Mitya2424
          I agree with everything, but Petushki in the Vladimir region !!!!

          I sincerely apologize to you and the natives of the Cockerels. I did not think anything evil, issued a "stamp". Just because of the reality of the settlements did not use Uryupinsk and Kopeisk! I repent. hi
    2. silver169 22 December 2019 00: 41 New
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      bya965 All the troubles of your country, precisely from people like you - useless, limited, stupid. (
      1. bya965 31 December 2019 08: 10 New
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        And I think from the grief of the reformers. who descend from liberals and democrats and simply people who do not know and do not understand the history of the Russian people, for example, the Germans or Jews.
  6. Pike 21 December 2019 08: 22 New
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    Thank you for the article!
    A little distracted from the topic, the history of Koporye is very interesting. The fortress, founded in 1240 at the mouth of Koporka, is now for some reason located 12 km away. from the bay, at an altitude of 120 m. above sea level, and the river. Koporka now rather rivulet ... it leads to certain speculations ...

    1. Trilobite Master 21 December 2019 13: 04 New
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      Quote: Pike
      this leads to certain speculations ...

      It would be interesting to read them. Which ones?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Pike 21 December 2019 13: 44 New
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        Quote: Trilobite Master
        It would be interesting to read them.
        Do you have thoughts on this too? ) There may be several hypotheses: the area has risen in 800 years (but tectonic movements in this area are unlikely), the water level was higher (which is also difficult to imagine, I bring a map with a sea level increase of only 50 m), or there was another fortress on the shore of the Koporsky Bay, or in the annals they messed up something ... But the fact remains that the Koporka rivers could make the fortress an island, it needs to add a couple of tens of meters of water level.



        PS Deleted messages without inserted pictures
        1. Trilobite Master 21 December 2019 14: 34 New
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          Quote: Pike
          Do you have thoughts on this too?

          Honestly, I expected a sensational revelation in a categorical form in the style of “historians are lying” and decided to inquire. Glad I was wrong. smile
          Quote: Pike
          the area has risen in 800 years

          Yes exactly. The terrain, or more specifically, the Izhora plateau, rose, the sea receded. There are studies on this subject by geologists. Unfortunately, links cannot be found now, but I think if you are interested, you can do it yourself. If you have been to those places (I have been), you probably noticed that the fortress itself stands on the edge of a high plateau in the place where Koporka, descending from this plateau, washed a narrow and deep canyon with steep walls in it. Further, to the north there is a completely flat terrain (now overgrown with forest) and so on to the very shore of the Gulf of Finland. A slight rise rolled back the coastline for more than 10 kilometers.
          Well, there was a bit more water in Koporka itself, although, of course, not so much that large vessels could rise on it.
          And further.
          The Germans actually founded the fortress in Koporye in 1240, but the settlement there is very ancient and it has been in Koporye since time immemorial that the tribal center of such a people as Vod was located.
          1. Pike 21 December 2019 15: 06 New
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            Quote: Trilobite Master
            expected a sensational revelation categorically in the style of "historians are lying"

            I myself am often surprised by the shots that build historical theories based on conjectures using a couple of pictures from the Internet, not paying attention to the existence of such sciences as geology, volcanology, archeology, even physics with chemistry goes sideways).
    2. kupitman 23 December 2019 13: 30 New
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      judging by the photo, it is quite possible that the edge of the water at the lake has left, and the river has either changed its channel or has become shallow, or both together
  7. Olgovich 21 December 2019 08: 23 New
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    1. An interesting selection of maps of the time, clearly shows the greatness of Russia's victories over Sweden

    2. The article is solid, but "tightened": it could be divided into 2-3 parts, IMHO

    3. Why lead to spicy but gossip about resolutions and answers? request
  8. Albatroz 21 December 2019 09: 29 New
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    For the Russian Tsarist Army, First Narva (1700) is an instructive lesson, and Second Narva (1704) is a turning point in the course of a military base in the Baltic states in favor of Russian weapons.
    Both were very important!
    And the First became the birthday of the Guard of the future empire.
  9. Catfish 21 December 2019 11: 50 New
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    Thank you, Valery! hi He did not know many details and generally believed that by the time of the first siege of Narva the streltsy rabble had already been dispersed.
    I heard the story of Catherine (“We are sorry, but we can’t offer the monks thereof”), but only in connection with the monks of the Solovetsky Monastery. smile
  10. Monster_Fat 21 December 2019 12: 05 New
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    Great article, thanks. Nevertheless, the battle itself near Narva is shown by the author too weakly.
  11. Undecim 21 December 2019 14: 12 New
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    The worst situation was with the replenishment of artillery: in Russia there simply was not the right amount of metal of suitable quality. I had to collect the bells of churches and monasteries.
    A moment worthy of a separate article. There was metal. And not only in the form of bells.
    This fact is necessarily cited by critics of Peter I as a fact of desecration of the Church and an example of his activity aimed at breaking the Russian historical tradition.
    Meanwhile, the use of church bells for the "execution of sovereign duty" - the idea is not Peter's.
    In the reign of Fedor III, in February 1667, the solicitor of the Valdai Iversky monastery in Novgorod, Venedikt Samsonov, informed his authorities how he stood at the right in connection with the monastery’s failure to pay
    out taxes. The grueling thirteen-year war with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had just ended, but the Novgorod governor continued to squeeze arrears from the population. Iversky solicitor reported that the builders of small Novgorod monasteries asked the governor of the prince V.G. Romodanovsky to give
    deferred payment, but he said in response: "although you sell de bells, but pay sovereign decree."
    That is, the governor saw a violation of decency not in breaking the bells, but in evading the sovereign tax.
    Church bells were rewritten on the eve of the Crimean campaigns, copper from monasteries was collected for the construction of the Azov fleet, and a contribution in cash was allowed instead of handing over copper.
    That is, the state constantly kept records of strategic material and saw nothing extraordinary in using bells as a reserve for such material. Like the ministers of the church, who not only complied with the royal decree, but also "exceeded the plan." It turns out that the monasteries and without bells had significant reserves of copper.
    In February 1701, 22 wagons brought from Vologda to Moscow 2 beaten bells weighing 46 pounds 3 pounds, boiler copper weighing 181 pounds 26 pounds and pure English bar tin weighing 32 pounds 2 pounds and a quarter. Extremely valuable was the red copper, which should have been added to the bell for the manufacture of guns. The lack of red copper slowed down the production of guns, and the Vologda Vladyka had every reason to hope for royal gratitude. Nevertheless, he became even more distressed and “in addition to the fourth part, he sent another copper boiler 200 poods for replenishment” 1. He should have delivered 259 pounds 31 pounds of bell copper, and he sent two-thirds more, and even better quality. Moreover, among
    There were not a single bell of significant reserves of copper sent from Vologda.
    It should be noted that copper was taken not only from the church; it was a natural part of the general gathering of valuable metal throughout the country, and the church, possessing the largest reserves of copper, could not stand aside.
    In 1701, 24 311 pounds of copper were collected, including 7497 pounds of church bell, that is, about a third of the total volume (38%), and church bells made even less - less than one fifth for the manufacture of “post-Darvian” cannons (18,7%).
    All this was forgotten over time, and, years later, only the fact of removing the bells to the guns and even the ban on pouring bells remained in the memory of contemporaries.
  12. Aviator_ 21 December 2019 14: 46 New
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    The article is interesting. Only there are inconsistencies. For instance,
    In general, it is difficult to understand what Peter was counting on, directing such an army against the strongest army in Europe, but 22 1700 of August he nevertheless moved him to Narva.

    And the very next day the war of Sweden was declared. September 3, Russian troops marched towards Narva.

    So when exactly did the troops go to Narva?
    1. VLR
      VLR 21 December 2019 15: 04 New
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      The same date, but according to Julian and Gregorian styles. I myself noticed this disagreement, but late.
      1. Aviator_ 21 December 2019 17: 06 New
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        Clear. It would be necessary to write more accurately.
      2. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 25 New
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        as soon as Ukrainians signed the peace in Istanbul, it became possible to violate the "non-kissed peace" (a peaceful non-aggression pact signed with the Swedish embassy in Moscow) with the Swedes.
        Who would have thought that the Turks would frustrate the coalition’s plans to simultaneously attack the Swedish borders .....
        Christians, Augustus and Peter didn’t hit the Swedes at the same time ... someone in the woods who firewood.
        And here it is necessary to say about England and France ... The combined fleet with Sweden disabled Denmark immediately.
  13. Operator 21 December 2019 14: 53 New
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    There was no defeat of the Russian army near Narva - the loss of 12 thousand against 3 thousand Swedes was fully compensated by the mobility reserve of the Russian Kingdom, three orders of magnitude greater than the mobility reserve of the Kingdom of Sweden.

    The limited losses of the Russian army were determined by the staunchness of the guards regiments, which diverted the forces of the Swedes, allowing the rest of the troops to get out of the clash, albeit in a mess.

    The fortitude of the Russian guards in the Battle of Narva is indicative - the Semenovsky and Preobrazhensky regiments, by its results, were given the right to wear uniforms of red color in memory of their own blood, in the pools of which they repulsed the attacks of the Swedes.
    1. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 31 New
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      Quote: Operator
      There was no defeat of the Russian army near Narva - the loss of 12 thousand against 3 thousand Swedes was fully compensated by the mobility reserve of the Russian Kingdom, three orders of magnitude greater than the mobility reserve of the Kingdom of Sweden.

      honestly, you can’t fight like that .. to lay down many times more people ...
      How can one not say defeat if the army was 50 thousand for 8 thousand ???
      Of course, I understand that then the Russians will do such tricks under Suvorov and Rumyantsev .. but after a while ... In the meantime, Narva is a cruel lesson ... And the defeat of superior forces.
      Let me remind you that the Russians occupied a fortified camp. Ready for defense!
      They were attacked by 8 thousand !!! On the move ... Without preparation. The soldiers who carried everything on themselves! Tired after a quick transition ...
      I am not ashamed to admit it as a cruel lesson. The defeats are very useful. Immediately arrogance goes astray.
      Peter felt this and left it wisely.
      For a gun to fire near Narva - it needs to be charged in Moscow! (WITH)
      Russia's population density is very poor. Count on the "mobile reserve" is not worth it. These are unprepared peasants. They still need to be taught and taught ...
      And so, in 50 thousand, they were defeated in a fortified camp, they left all weapons and guns! Banners with the generals! ..
      Only the guards left with the music .. The others drove away with shots .. Not everyone came to Novgorod.
      1. Operator 24 December 2019 22: 49 New
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        Much more interesting is how many and with what forces Menshikov captured the Swedes who fled from the battlefield near Poltava - but the combat “Vikings” were not better prepared and had much more military experience than Russian recruits near Narva.

        Poltava is much more indicative of Narva in terms of comparing the moral-volitional qualities of Russians and Swedes.
  14. BAI
    BAI 21 December 2019 18: 54 New
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    In general, history shows that Russia (Russia, the USSR) benefits only defeats, victories lead to stagnation.
    Damages:
    Mongol-Tatar (hi Samsonov) yoke - the union of Russia.
    The Time of Troubles is the same, + the elimination of anarchy (Romanovs are better than nothing)
    Narva - revolutionary changes in the army and in the state.
    The Crimean War - the abolition of serfdom, the beginning of capitalism.
    The Russo-Japanese War - the modernization of the army, the rapid development of industry.
    1941 - The Red Army becomes the strongest Arimaeus of the world.

    Victory:
    The Russian-Turkish war of 1768-1774 - the suppression of Pugachev, for the nobility the "golden age", the beginning of the scientific and technological backwardness of Russia from Europe.
    1812-14 years - Russia gendarme of Europe, Arakcheevschina. Complete scientific and technical backlog of Russia from Europe and America.
    1945 - the peak of world influence, then only decline.
    1. kupitman 23 December 2019 13: 36 New
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      The logic in your words is, as they say for one beaten, two unbeaten give. The fact is that, as a rule, conclusions are drawn from lesions, they are studying why this happened. But victories are often buried with salutes and that’s all, you have to be a very competent boss in order to see victories under a magnifying glass, find flaws and eliminate them. Euphoria - kills a sober mind.
  15. 3x3zsave 21 December 2019 20: 44 New
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    Great stuff! Thank you Valery!
  16. eagle owl 21 December 2019 22: 45 New
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    It's funny that with the beginning of the Northern War, some priests began to assure the soldiers that Sweden was the God-chosen country - the New Israel, and Russia - personifies Assyria: if its ancient name "Assur" is read the opposite, it will turn out "Russa"

    Well, at least they didn’t dig the sea ...
  17. Molot1979 22 December 2019 09: 13 New
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    The question is why there were up to 113 thousand in the Crimean campaign, and Peter barely scraped together less than 40 - but how else could it be if the tsar did not cause any confidence in the former regiments of the new system? There were precedents when conspiracies with the most decisive goals were revealed in such regiments. Naturally, Peter took only those whom he could completely trust with him near Narva. A significant proportion of the fighters of the Petrine army were “subordinate”, which in fact were “they could not hold in their hands from the meanest mob and musket.” Their task was to conduct siege work, and not to fight in the first line. In general, the siege could have ended in a different way. If Peter took into account the features of the theater of war and more realistically calculated the required number of ammunition. But all the military experience of the tsar at that time was exhausted by the confrontation with his sister Sophia and the siege of Azov, which they could hardly take.
    By the way, about illustrations. A significant part of them is the age of 16 or, at best, the middle of 17. It is somewhat anachronistic. The noble horse militia is, of course, exotic, but militarily by the time of Narva, there’s absolutely nothing about it. And it’s interesting, but does Sederström have pictures about Poltava and Perevolochna?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 18: 43 New
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      If you are about painting, then the Poltava battle and the Battle of Lesnoy are accurately captured in colors !!!
    2. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 34 New
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      Quote: Molot1979
      why in the Crimean campaign there were up to 113 thousand, and Peter barely scraped together less than 40 — and how else could it be if the tsar’s former regiments did not inspire any confidence?

      Tatars are a common enemy. Yes, and compare the roads to the south and north ...
      Yes, and the convoy did not lose Lake Ilmen .. there was no soaked gunpowder ..
      There were two Crimean campaigns under Golitsyn ..
  18. fiberboard 22 December 2019 11: 21 New
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    Nice to read, great article.
  19. Moskovit 22 December 2019 12: 11 New
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    Now we have the same Narva with Gazprom, in sports with vada, and economic Narva lasts from 2014. But, unfortunately, the conclusions and reforms are not visible ....
    1. Operator 22 December 2019 14: 34 New
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      what are you talking about - the new Poltava? laughing
  20. The article is good. But is it necessary, was there a joke already from the time of Catherine II? He did not go beyond the scope of the article? A vulgar and ugly anecdote of the enemies of Russia. Not the fact that he comes from the XVIII century.
    “You won’t throw words out of a song” - father Pyotr himself was “carried away” and, as it happened, impudently behaved in relation to the Russian Tradition. But Heaven, excuse me, boobies (and "important", and "cunning", and "smart", and "humorous", and "literate" - all sorts of ...) teach humility and respect for the laws that were not established by people. Installed ONCE and FOREVER. "Young reformer" and received a subject lesson just near Narva. From under the walls of which he elementarily escaped, leaving his army. It is delicately called - "I went to pull up the carts." This is a well-known historical fact. By the way, Peter himself later ridiculed both his “achievements” in this battle and the “achievements” of his army. Of course, noting the real feats, for example, of the same "Semenovites". And in the article you are talking about Peter's desire not to “constrain” Croa de Croix. Why do you say that in your article? Mislead readers, dear. And they, readers, should see the MEANING of historical phenomena, should see the effect of Providence in the fates of people and states, they should know that the law "earned - get" works IRON. Father Peter corrected (in part), freed himself from the "overseas dope" - received the Poltava Victoria. Empire received.
    ... Then they, your readers, will listen less to worthless modern "propagandists", and will periodically open the Book and carefully analyze the words of the Prophet Amos, chapter 3, verse 6: "... Is there a disaster in the city that the Lord did not allow would?" Or: "... because I hit you with enemy blows, cruel punishment for your many iniquities ... (Jeremiah, 30-14). They will begin to understand" yesterday's day "and today.
    And I will end with the words of Vasily Osipovich Klyuchevsky about the “late” Peter I: “... he was a pious man, mourned the ignorance of the Russian clergy, about the frustration of the church, he honored and knew the church rite, he didn’t like to joke in the holidays to join the choir his singers and sang in his strong voice ... "
  21. Earth 24 December 2019 22: 43 New
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    not a bad article.
    There is much truth about the battle, and so little about it itself. Although you don’t often hear about the background of unsuccessful battles, it’s very interesting here.
    I do not see here a description of terrible logistics. But the initial loss of Narva began precisely with her.
    All that was urgently needed was stuck.
    Gunpowder is wetted by spills.
    The European outfit (and domestic freshly cut by people close to the emperor) has deteriorated from weather conditions.
    Period of the year. Peter’s reckoning on a completely different one because the start of the war dragged on because of the Turks.
    In general, a series of mistakes.
    The number of junior officers who do not speak Russian. Methods of stick discipline ..
    Militia drunkenness.
    Robbery and looting.
    Lack of discipline.
    In general, the Swedish Ordnung defeated the hodgepodge who went into the woods for firewood. With poor logistics and discipline. Which is not surprising.
    Thank you for the article. I read it with pleasure.