New Malki modernization: self-propelled gun as part of the complex

One of the most powerful artillery systems in our army is the 2S7M Malka self-propelled gun. This product is quite old and needs to be modernized. As announced the other day, the design update has already been completed and is being tested at the landfill. In the near future it is planned to launch a serial modernization.

Industry works

December 17, RIA News published a large interview with Dmitry Semizorov, General Director of Uraltransmash. Different topics were raised in the conversation, including promising artillery systems modernization projects.

According to D. Semizorov, in December, the plant is going to complete the work on updating CAO 2S7M. We are talking about the overhaul of self-propelled guns and the deep modernization of part of its systems. The use of new components and assemblies is envisaged, aimed both at improving performance and import substitution.

At the moment, it is alleged that the experienced Malka, after modernization, is being tested in the testing ground. The prototype copes with the tasks and confirms the correctness of the solutions used. Over the next 2020, Uraltransmash intends to prepare a serial production of updated equipment.

Update and Substitution

The ongoing modernization affects a number of key systems and components of the CAO. At the same time, other units can only be repaired to extend the life. In some cases, modernization is associated with the rejection of imported units in favor of domestic ones.

A similar import substitution was carried out in the field of power units and on-board electronics. According to D. Semizorov, earlier at the Malka a power plant of Ukrainian production was used. The corresponding units were replaced by domestic products. Also, on-board gearboxes manufactured in Kharkov went under replacement.

Foreign components were present in the fire control system and in the anti-nuclear defense complex. In the last project, they were abandoned, using domestic counterparts.

At the same time, a number of other units and assemblies were replaced. The upgraded 2S7M gun receives new means of internal and external communication, data receiving and processing devices, surveillance tools, etc. According to well-known data, the proposed modernization of electronic equipment ensures the compatibility of Malki with modern automated command and control systems.

From the announced data it follows that a complete set of new equipment so far has only experienced equipment built for testing. However, already next year it is planned to start serial work on the modernization of combat self-propelled guns.

"Malka" in the complex

Currently, the Russian army is improving missile forces and artillery, aimed at increasing their combat effectiveness. Such processes are directly related to the implementation of the so-called reconnaissance-strike complexes (RUK) - systems that include a variety of reconnaissance equipment and artillery or missiles.

The combined use of modern intelligence and SAO / self-propelled guns allows you to reduce the time between detection and destruction of the target. It is planned to reduce this interval by 1,5-2 times. Such an increase in combat qualities should take place in all areas, including high-power artillery.

It should be considered that the modernization of communications and control systems on the Malka self-propelled gun is directly related to the introduction of the concept of RUK. With the help of new instruments, gunners will be able to more quickly obtain more accurate information about targets and more efficiently perform a combat mission. Interaction with a wide range of intelligence tools is possible.

Last spring, the Ministry of Defense announced the first experiments on the joint work of the SAO 2S7M and the Orlan-10 unmanned complex. Reconnaissance UAVs identified a conditional target and determined its coordinates, which were then forwarded to the calculation of a self-propelled gun. A target with previously unknown coordinates was successfully hit in a shorter time. In the future, such firing was repeatedly repeated, and the use of UAVs fully paid off.

Part of the technical details of the current modernization of Malka machines remains unknown. In particular, the main opportunities and features for interacting with third-party data sources, etc. remain secret. However, there is every reason to believe that in this regard 2C7M after the new update will have advantages over the previous modification.

Old but effective

It is curious that in the latest reports on the modernization of the SAO 2S7M Malka the theme of the gun itself is not raised. Apparently, the project does not provide for the replacement or alteration of the gun - it is proposed to increase combat characteristics by improving fire control systems and related facilities.

However, the artillery unit of Malki does not need to be updated. During the development of the 2C7M project, the necessary changes were introduced to ensure the receipt of the required characteristics, after which new improvements are not required. The 203 mm 2A44 gun and its associated units provide the necessary combat and operational performance.

The 203 mm caliber gun with a barrel length of 55 klb uses separate-loading shots with a number of types of shells for various purposes. The mass of shells reaches 110 kg. The maximum firing range (3VOF35 active rocket projectile) is 47,5 km. Loading shots is carried out using the appropriate mechanism with remote control. Rate of fire - 2,5 rds / min.

According to tabular characteristics, 2C7M is one of the most powerful artillery systems in service in our country and in the world. With such parameters, the refinement of the gun itself does not make sense, but the improvement of the LMS is fully justified and should give a noticeable effect.

Continuous development

Thus, the domestic defense industry continues the process of developing artillery systems, as a result of which the army can count on obtaining modern and effective equipment. These processes affect all the main classes of artillery, including high power systems.

In the case of CAO 2S7M Malka, there is also a constant and systematic development with a consistent solution of certain technical problems. In the recent past, issues of the interaction of self-propelled guns with new reconnaissance assets have been worked out, and now a project for the modernization of equipment with the replacement of some units has been completed. Next year, such a project will be brought to a series.

Malka has already become a full-fledged element of a promising RUK, and a new modernization will expand its capabilities. All this will significantly increase the potential of high-power artillery at minimal cost for the construction and development of equipment. Despite their considerable age, the 2S7M SAO remain in service, and the army and industry, represented by the Uraltransmash plant and other enterprises, are taking all measures to extend their service lives and increase combat potential.

Comments

[Thrifty]

Chrome the barrel to increase its resource, create a lighter shot with a jet engine, to hit targets at even greater range than now!

[Vladimir_2U]

All this is good, but without special ammunition, indulgence is one.

[Sergey_G_M]

All the same, artillery of large caliber is outliving its century.
Tasks that cannot be solved by 152 mm artillery can be solved by OTR, MLRS or aviation, in addition, these systems are more flexible in application, and the price difference is offset by the cost of maintaining such artillery (development, manufacturing, storage of ammunition, preparation of calculations, operation in the army, etc. .d.) Yes, and active rockets at a price quite close to missiles.

[bairat]

This is true in peacetime. With active hostilities, missiles with cunning stuffing will quickly end, and 203mm shells are stored up for a hundred years ahead, again, the price and production capabilities are not comparable.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

With active hostilities, missiles with cunning stuffing will quickly end, and 203mm shells are stored up for a hundred years ahead,

As Ukrainian practice has shown, shots at artillery shells will not last a hundred years. Degradation of gunpowder is a scientific fact. And it’s good if the consequences are just greatly reduced accuracy. After all, it may break the trunk.

[bairat]

Separate loading, propellant powder is planned to be updated.

[Lopatov]

He is not free. On the contrary.

[bairat]

And the rocket is also not free.

[Lopatov]

Exactly.
Therefore, other things being equal, a rocket is more profitable.

[bairat]

Guided missiles are more expensive in every sense, and in storage there not only gunpowder is aging but also electronics. Without guidance, this is shooting at squares.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

Guided Missile

Why "hover"?
MLRS "Uragan" or "Uragan-1M" will perform the same tasks. With a comparable cost of a shot and a much cheaper launcher in operation.

[tima_ga]

MLRS are good when working on areas ... And if you need to add one house? Here the exact art of a large caliber is it. And yes, most likely we are talking about a local conflict with a not strong enemy, for example, Syria or the counter-terrorist operation.

[Sergey_G_M]

It’s right in store, and they certainly do not spoil. Weakly in modern realities there seems to be a conflict in which they would urgently begin to deploy the production of 203 mm shells, rigging, of course, like the conveyor, are waiting for such a conflict and mothballed, and workers are engaged in conversion production, they make nesting dolls, of course, it should be good, but if it is realistic then most likely it’s all profucan.

[Vadim237]

If these howitzers began to deeply modernize and start their production again, then the production of new actively reactive, guided and conventional shells should be set up as well as propellant charges.

[Sergey_G_M]

In Russia, 60 2С7М (+ 260 2С7 in storage, though it is not known how many cars will be in good condition from storage) and we are talking more about overhaul, modernization is more like replacing imported or already out of production units, well, new means of communication are good for Most of our technology needs to change them.
This self-propelled guns is quite old since 1976 and for this number of systems, albeit modernized, but with a battered residual resource, to develop new active-reactive and guided missiles is an expensive pleasure.
And this self-propelled gun with old shells - the 3VOF35 active-rocket projectile - 47,5 km and a rate of 2,5 rounds / min, well, so-so, if Msta throws for 40 km. And for her there is no guided projectile (((

[tima_ga]

I am developing new shells as a complex, for example, immediately under 152 and 203 mm. And with a similar range, Msta and Malka can have different targets. Yes, if Msta is not enough, you can work out MLRS, but this is if you need to cover the entire "village", and if only a couple of large houses .... - that's the goal for Malka.

[Nasrat]

I think that interest woke up again for this device, during the period of taking Allepo ... Raising aircraft or banging from such a thing - all the same, the price is different ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: Nasr

I think that interest woke up again for this device, during the capture of Allepo ...

She wouldn't have helped there. This is not a "Tulip" that has consistently shown itself well in battles in settlements since the days of Afghanistan

"Peony" / "Malka" does not have the necessary trajectories for this.

[tima_ga]

But the tulip needs to be brought closer, and if, for example, there is a threat of small UAVs with bombs, then it’s better to shoot from 40km

[Sergey_G_M]

You see, the scope is rather narrow, but keeping it and dragging it somewhere else isn’t worth a dime, can it still be cheaper to raise aviation?

[Nasrat]

I have no opportunity to argue, because of lack of competence .. but I thought in that direction.

And yet the thing is powerful ... in 1941 rarities came in handy and abruptly (like rarities):

[Sergey_G_M]

It was like that, but these rarities were taken from museums, conservation, and almost just from a landfill (during the defense of Moscow). Most fired about 10 rounds and fell apart and there were no more shells.

[Nasrat]

The guns were indeed worn out even during the liberation of Bulgaria from Turkey .. and could withstand no more than 5-7 shots .... at the Sokolniki artillery warehouse abounded captured Vickers English high-explosive fragmentation shells of 6-inch caliber and weighing 100 feet, that is, a little more than 45,4 kilograms. There were also capsules and powder charges repelled by the interventionists in the civil war. Since 1919, all this property has been stored so carefully that it could well be used for its intended purpose.

[bairat]

During the assault on German cities, the B-4 was "dragged" as part of the assault groups. There were also lighter howitzers, and there was enough aviation, however, combat experience preferred a larger caliber and direct fire.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

During the assault on German cities, the B-4 was "dragged" as part of the assault groups. There were also lighter howitzers, and there was enough aviation, however, combat experience preferred a larger caliber and direct fire.

Well, just imagine, vremeni have settled in the building, and you cannot get them out of there.

On direct fire, the "Malka" is slowly and sadly rolled out (its length is only one and a half meters less than the launcher "Tornado") And it there within five minutes is deployed into a combat position. This is with a fully open position of the gun, that is, the calculation is not even protected by a shield cover

[bairat]

We can only fantasize and laugh. The B-4 also did not have a shield, and no pre-war science in a nightmare dreamed of such an assault group staff.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

and no pre-war science in a nightmare dreamed of such an assault group staff.

Even as I dreamed. No wonder the SU-14 appeared.
However, smart people found such calibers excessive.

The fact is that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the urgent desire to drag B-4 or BM-13 for direct fire was not caused by tactical necessity.

[bairat]

Quote: Spade

The fact is that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the urgent desire to drag B-4 or BM-13 for direct fire was not caused by tactical necessity.

This "desire" was spelled out in the tactical instructions for the formation of assault groups. And the instructions themselves are drawn up on the basis of the previous combat experience.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

This "desire" was spelled out

It was not so clear.

[bairat]

Quote: Spade

It was not so clear.

было
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/SbornikBoevyhDokumentov/Issue17/Issue17_06.html
“All regimental and divisional artillery must be attached to rifle companies and battalions and fire with direct fire.
If necessary, rifle companies and battalions should be given artillery of caliber 152 and 203 mm and 160 mm mortars. The attached artillery must move in infantry combat formations and support it with its fire. In turn, the actions of artillery should be covered by the fire of infantry weapons.
An artillery group consisting of 122-, 152- and 203-mm guns and 120-, 160-mm mortars should be subordinate to the commanders of the rifle divisions. This artillery group must fight the enemy artillery, destroy and suppress certain important objects. However, if necessary, individual guns can be used for direct fire.
In street battles to attract:
45- and 76-mm regimental artillery guns - for the destruction of manpower and firing points located outside shelters, in the windows of buildings, on roofs, as well as for firing at the embrasures of long-term firing points and forts;
76-mm guns of divisional artillery - for the destruction of manpower and firing points located behind weak shelters, for the destruction of light buildings, long-term firing points and equipped observation posts, for arson of buildings and firing at the embrasures of long-term firing points and forts; these guns are also used to combat enemy tanks;
82-mm mortars - for the destruction of manpower and firing points located outside shelters, in attics, on roofs of buildings;
120-mm mortars - for the destruction of wood-earthen firing points and observation posts with light ceilings, as well as for fighting enemy mortars;
122-mm and 152-mm guns - to combat enemy artillery, destruction of engineering structures, strong buildings, as well as to combat heavy enemy tanks;
160-mm mortars and 203-mm guns - for the destruction of especially strong engineering structures, old buildings; "

[Lopatov]

Well, you yourself read.
Nothing obligatory, "if necessary"
And such a need, more than sure, was not.

So you remembered the B-4 on a direct fire.
Good. some commander decided that he needed such a thing. For example, to destroy a building. And only 40 minutes are deployed from a marching weapon into a military weapon.
In the best case, the enemy will leave this building, and they will shoot him just because "once they have dragged him." But most likely there will be no better case. And all this nonsense will result in heavy losses.

[bairat]

"An artillery group consisting of 122-, 152- and 203-mm guns must be subordinate to the commanders of rifle divisions."
It makes no sense to continue the argument, look at white and say black.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

"An artillery group consisting of 122-, 152- and 203-mm guns must be subordinate to the commanders of rifle divisions."

... This artillery group must fight the enemy artillery, destroy and suppress certain important objects. However, if necessary individual guns can be used for direct fire.

Quote: bairat

look at white and say black.

Rather, I just read the full written.

[bairat]

Well, of course, if necessary. A 203 mm howitzer is not needed to storm a plywood village. It is written in the manual ("it was not unambiguous", reread yourself more carefully), in fact it was applied, for which there is numerous evidence, hence the conclusion: you only read what fits into your matrix.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

Well, of course, if necessary

What was originally discussed.
No "desire" was written. Only the possibility of fulfilling such a desire is prescribed. And its adequacy is entrusted to the commanders. Which were not always adequate.

You pay attention. for 203 on a direct fire they gave the Hero of the Soviet Union. (I.I.Vedmedenko) Moreover, for the correct direct fire, with the employment of fire stealth at night and shooting during the artillery preparation of the attack

And you are trying to imagine it in such a way that supposedly such actions were directly prescribed by tactical instructions.

[bairat]

So it is, it was directly prescribed, if necessary (when smaller calibers fail) to use for the destruction of long-term fortifications. Somewhere at night, somewhere under cover of smoke or fire of the rest of the artillery, and not one Vedmedenko distinguished himself.
"The possibility of the fulfillment of desire is prescribed" - some kind of nonsense. I actually thought that I was arguing with an adequate opponent)))

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

expressly prescribed, if necessary

Was it "expressly prescribed" or "if necessary"?
These are different things.

Quote: bairat

Somewhere at night, somewhere under cover of smoke or fire from the rest of the artillery

This is not at all an option of direct fire support with direct fire, which we are talking about.
This is direct fire during artillery training. Moreover, the situation is so rare and dangerous that they gave Hero of the Soviet Union for it.
Apparently, he could not find, as prescribed, a half-closed fire, and he was forced to do such a thing.

[bairat]

Was it "expressly prescribed" or "if necessary"?
These are different things.

For you shkololo apparently yes, not all sentences written for adults are correctly understood.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

For you shkololo apparently yes

Actually, these are different things for everyone. And not only "for me, shkololo"

That is, your statement was very premature.
And no "tactical instructions on the formation of assault groups" were ordered to drag the B-4 on direct fire. What I wrote initially.

[bairat]

Quote: Spade

Even as I dreamed. No wonder the SU-14 appeared.
However, smart people found such calibers excessive.

Smart ones must be quoted. The lack of self-propelled artillery in tank divisions is one of the reasons for their unsuccessful use in the 41st year.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

Smart ones must be quoted.

Without any quotes.
Even for the destruction of bunkers by direct fire, 152 mm and ML-20 ballistics were enough.

[bairat]

Strange, all the fools around, and the Germans used the captured 203mm howitzers until the end of the war, and we had it in service until the 80s, one comrade Lopatov knows that the thing was useless))

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

Strange, all the fools around, and the Germans used the captured 203mm howitzers until the end of the war, and we had it in service until the 80s, one comrade Lopatov knows that the thing was useless))

Maybe because the Germans did not have an analogue of the Hurricane?

[bairat]

Quote: Spade

Maybe because the Germans did not have an analogue of the Hurricane?

Hurricane has a minimum firing range of 8 km, the purpose is to shoot at squares, they will only be able to break through the bunker wall with great luck.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

they will only be able to break through the bunker wall with a lot of luck.

Breaking the bunker walls, as practice has shown, is possible with the help of 152 mm concrete-piercing shells. Successfully breaking.

[bairat]

Quote: Spade

Breaking the bunker walls, as practice has shown, is possible with the help of 152 mm concrete-piercing shells. Successfully breaking.

As practice has shown, even 203 mm did not always cope with the fortifications. For example, with air defense towers in Berlin.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

As practice has shown, even 203 mm did not always cope with the fortifications. For example, with air defense towers in Berlin.

Why break them? To kill more of the myrrh that was hiding in them?

They did not break, just blocked after incapacitation of anti-aircraft guns.

[bairat]

Quote: Spade

Why break them? To kill more of the myrrh that was hiding in them?

They did not break, just blocked after incapacitation of anti-aircraft guns.

Again, fools, wasted shells in vain, nevertheless, it was possible to get around, and starting from Kinigsberg himself
"In Berlin, there was only one structure that withstood a B-4 strike - it was the Flakturm am Zoo anti-aircraft tower, also known as Flakturm I. Units of the 8th Guards and 1st Guards Tank Armies entered the area of ​​the Berlin Zoo. The shelling of its 152-mm artillery was completely ineffectual. Then 105 concrete-piercing shells of 203-mm caliber were fired at the flakturm. As a result, the corner of the tower was destroyed, but it continued to live until the surrender of the garrison. "

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

Again fools, wasted shells in vain

Are you sure you spent?
As far as I know, not one of the "anti-aircraft towers" of Berlin was destroyed during the assault, not seeing the need for it.

[bairat]

Confidence versus confidence. Personally, like you, was not present. Just read.

[mmaxx]

I remember from my distant childhood a report about an almost victory in the Vietnam War. Storming what city, maybe Saigon. Little Vietnamese in flat helmets scurrying around the B-4 - 203 mm. A direct-fire howitzer, branches sticking out "for camouflage." One is a string of pulling. The howitzer banged, flew off a couple of meters. And the Vietnamese rushed to fuss further. I do not envy those who were hit.

[smel]

Auto RU!
Creating a modification of this tool and preparing for its mass production is great, it pleases any patriotic Russian person. And the time of this type of weaponry is far from over. But only a very naive and uninformed person can hope that we can reach the complex that you are talking about. This is very problematic with the current organizational structure of the units with this weapon, the situation with the complexes of control vehicles for them, the problems of training and staffing these (and, incidentally, other) RV&A units with officers. One does not even have to talk about the range of applied and promising ammunition.
Other divisions with different weapons and other purposes face similar difficulties. There is still an unplowed field on the issue of import substitution. And in the conditions of the appearance of Abrams at our borders, that direction is more important.
It's my opinion.

Last spring, the Ministry of Defense announced the first experiments on the joint work of the 2S7M SAO and the Orlan-10 unmanned complex. Reconnaissance UAV identified a conditional target and determined its coordinates, which were then forwarded to the calculation of a self-propelled gun

Yes .. And the calculation of the gun, the coordinates of the target are of little interest. He is more interested in what SOB will say.

[Lopatov]

Quote: smel

Yes .. And the calculation of the gun, the coordinates of the target are of little interest. He is more interested in what SOB will say.

Not necessary. Modern ASUNOs do not need to have the SOB computer read for them, they can do it themselves.

The presence of topographic and self-orientation tools on each weapon changes everything very much.
If previously there were only fire coordinates, they are the coordinates of the main gun, now there are six such coordinates for the battery, eighteen for the division.
If before the gun commander had to take the settings for the main gun and introduce individual amendments, for the interval, ledge, fan, etc., now this is not necessary.
And often this is not possible, because the ASUNO allows not to have the guns on one fire. Which has a very positive effect on the survivability of units.

[smel]

I won’t even argue and give arguments - I don’t watch science fiction films and don’t play shooters on beech

[Lopatov]

Quote: smel

I won’t even argue and give arguments

You are not competent enough to have arguments and to bring them.

Quote: smel

I don’t watch science fiction films and don’t play shooters on the beech

What are you not doing yet? Do not read any crap like the characteristics of automation complexes?

For example, in the characteristics of "Success-S" the following item is indicated: "reception of target designation from PUO 1V13-3 and autonomous calculation of shooting installations"
Guess once what it means

[smel]

Guess what 1B13 means in all versions

[Lopatov]

Quote: smel

Guess what 1B13 means in all versions

Same as 1B110

However, this does not negate the fact that tonsils are much easier to cut through the mouth. 8)))
And to calculate the installation for shooting directly on the gun / installation, based on the coordinates of the target and the calculated / defined corrections.

Common common sense ...

[smel]

And what, the gun also makes the decision to complete the task. The task of shooting determines. The installation of the fuse, the time of completion of the task, the method of shelling a group target Sam ??? Complete nonsense

[Lopatov]

Quote: smel

And what, the gun also makes the decision to complete the task.

Where did you manage to dig it?
You are awkwardly trying to replace concepts

There are ACS coordinates. there are coordinates of the aiming point, there are corrections in the direction and range.
This is just enough for the eyes to calculate the installations for firing directly onboard computers from the ASUNO.
About that, in fact, and speech.
And this is much, much simpler than doing complex recalculation of installations calculated by SOB for the main gun.

Moreover, it is much, much more effective, because it removes the "binding" to the main direction of fire.

[smel]

You are not competent enough to have arguments and to bring them.

Dear Mr. Lopatov It is not for you to judge my competence. In order to judge it, one must at least command an artillery regiment. Or a brigade. 5-7 years. I don’t know what happened to command you, but I’m sure that I know how it turned out. If there is any merit - then inform in PM. I am pleased to know at what training grounds and in which garrisons, in what positions, what successes have been achieved, with which of the commanders have you been fortunate enough to serve. I will answer you, also in PM. And I’ll definitely check it out - you can be sure of it. In the meantime, this did not happen - a convincing request not to comment on my texts, for I perceive this as the talk of an incompetent and divorced person from life.

[Lopatov]

Quote: smel

Dear Mr. Lopatov It is not for you to judge my competence.

For me.
When you put an "equal" sign between the call of fire by the spotter at your coordinates and firing a mortar at a distance of 70 meters, you fully demonstrated the level of your "competence" in artillery.

Quote: smel

In order to judge it, one must at least command an artillery regiment. Or a brigade. 5-7 years.

eight))))))
And in order to judge the competence in making a fire, you need to be at least seven years in the position of head of the Federal Forestry Agency, or at least his deputy?

How long have you been in the position of commander of the first fire platoon? How many battery commanders? How many NS posts?

Quote: smel

I kindly ask you not to comment on my texts, for I perceive this as the talk of an incompetent and divorced person.

You will laugh, but I perceive you that way. As incompetent, but with a huge conceit of man.
And therefore, I absolutely do not give a damn about your requests.
And any of your stupid statements like "Yes .. And the calculation of the gun is of little interest in the coordinates of the target. He is more interested in what the GSS will say." will be challenged.

[smel]

will be challenged.
Your worthless questions on the forum personally to me, the stubborn reluctance to tell me in a personal way about my successes in artillery (or at least in SIO, maybe in competitions of design bureaus or competition of CD), as well as a lack of understanding of the basics and rules of shooting artillery both in group and and for a specific purpose, a misunderstanding of the shooting tasks (suppression, destruction, etc.), the method of firing at the target, opening time, ceasefire, artillery tactics at the level of division-battery-platoon-gun, and just a mention of the fire (apparently shooting for you and the theory of artillery fire and a bonfire are one and the same), coupled with the Federal Agency, simply indicates your ignorance in the matter under consideration and congenital rudeness. Everything rests against you in the tactics of action of a nomadic weapon. It’s clear to me personally that you are a superficial person, a couch of a warrior who has achieved nothing in the service. Apparently therefore, in 292sap you are not remembered either as Lopatova, Lopatin, Lopatenko, etc.
And the fact that you do not give a damn ([i] I absolutely do not give a damn [/ i are your words]) to requests not to engage in polemics with me (because I am not interested in zero, or rather disgusting to communicate with rude zero) is mine again conviction confirms.
As for me, if it’s interesting for you to bring this question to the forum: KOV - year, SOB - year, K Sabatr 2 years, NSh adn 2S3M and adn 160mm M by year. These posts are up and all are fully staffed. KD 2S1 3 years (100% set) in MSP, etc. etc. At one time he was a medalist in all-army competitions of the Design Bureau and competitions of the Design Bureau. Service geography: SGV, ZakVO, FEB, SKVO, PurVO, ZabVO. But the public is not interested.
Once again I ask you not to engage in polemics with me. I will not communicate with you.
And I ask you not to judge the readers of these picks strictly.

[karabass]

Yes, on the contrary, such disputes, and IN is the most interesting! I remember the submariner grappled with Timokhin - I read in the same breath as your argument

[Lopatov]

Quote: smel

Apparently therefore, in 292sap you are not remembered either as Lopatova, Lopatin, Lopatenko, etc.

E .....
Wait ...
Everything is much worse. than i thought ...
Your nickname is "smel". Obviously not your last name. Didn't you have enough brain to understand that the nickname "Lopatov" does not mean that I have this surname ????????????????????
Are you sure all is well?

Quote: smel

As for me, if it’s interesting for you to submit this question to the forum: KOV - year, SOB - year, K Sabatr 2 years, NSh Adn 2C3M and Adn 160mm M by year.

Here is my word of honor, I do not believe you.
You see, a person who has gone through such positions simply can’t crap like you.
But if it's true .... then I'm just scared

Quote: smel

Once again I ask you not to engage in polemics with me. I will not communicate with you.

I do not care about your desires.
You accused the other person of incompetence. Moreover, they themselves showed a lack of minimum knowledge.
You started it, not me. And now you are trying to push the squeezed paste back into the tube. This does not happen.

And yes ... in the "minus" I also know how to play.

[bairat]

Lopatov just enjoys your attention to his close-sighted person. Spit.

[Lopatov]

Quote: bairat

Lopatov just enjoys your attention to his close-sighted person. Spit.

Guessed 8))))))
In general, both of you are alike. Discussing Lopatov is much more interesting for you than looking for arguments.

[Lopatov]

The 203 mm 2A44 gun and its associated units provide the necessary combat and operational performance.

What is "necessary" for?
- Low rate of fire for modern guns. Which reduces tactical effectiveness
- A great time to transfer from marching to combat and vice versa. 7 minutes for a modern battlefield is a great time. Not a tool for survival
“As rightly noted, this is a cannon.” Extremely limited in accessible trajectories. That is, it is practically useless during military operations in the mountains, in settlements, when hitting targets behind natural obstacles, etc.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Spade

Low rate of fire for modern guns.

And if so ?

[chenia]

Quote: Spade

What is "necessary" for?

Well, as a long-range system (well, do not throw it away) one shot still pulls. Then use only special PSU (in the ground). Well, sort of shoved into the coast gathered.

[Lopatov]

Quote: chenia

Well, as a long-range system

Not really she is long-range by the times of old. Well, she could get the enemy, but he wasn’t. So it’s not so ...
Useless thing. Even for the use of TNW, it is very distinguished.

[chenia]

Quote: Spade

Not really long-range for the times of old

not really, but

Quote: chenia

don't throw away

So far from the receiver, only the Coalition beats further. In the tactical zone with special power supply just right. But is there any sense. For such a limited range of tasks, to contain it is another matter.

[Vadim237]

If she will be able to throw new guided projectiles 100 kilometers, then most of the shortcomings that you brought will not be relevant. Now no one has such self-propelled guns and in the distant future they will vryatli - artillery is much cheaper than the rest of the means of destruction that the ground forces have right now.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Vadim237

artillery is much cheaper than the rest of the means of destruction that the ground forces have this hour.

It is not.
A new guided missile for such self-propelled guns will be more expensive and more complicated than a new guided missile with exactly the same characteristics in range and weight of warheads.
This is due to the fact that the projectile is experiencing orders of magnitude greater load

[prodi]

come on you: lengthened the projectile, picked up the optimal charge - in short it will be better than a rocket. The barrel is precisely the universal system

[Lopatov]

Quote: prodi

come on you: lengthened the projectile, picked up the optimal charge - in short it will be better than a rocket.

Will not be. The rocket is not limited in caliber. The missile is not limited by the loads when fired. The rocket, all other things being equal, will be simpler and cheaper.

[prodi]

the barrel is universal, and the rocket will not be cheaper than a conventional projectile of a similar caliber, nor will it be more accurate in an uncontrolled version at any distance

[Lopatov]

Quote: prodi

the trunk is universal

The trunk of a modern howitzer is universal. And the guns of the middle of the last century. Which is very limited in accessible trajectories.

Quote: prodi

and the rocket will not be cheaper than a conventional projectile of a similar caliber,

The caliber rocket is not limited.

[prodi]

the rocket will be heavier in the same caliber, and the more they are released, the more materially expensive

[Lopatov]

Quote: prodi

the rocket will be heavier in the same caliber, and the more they are released, the more materially expensive

Heavier, so what? This will not really affect the price. But the requirements for the loads that the control system must withstand will greatly affect the price.

[prodi]

let’s leave unmanaged aside, even strategic ones use mortar launch

[Lopatov]

Guided missiles have even more advantages over guided missiles. Again, the problem of high loads when fired and limitations in size. Which make UAS permanently more expensive

[prodi]

Well, let's somehow equalize to one diameter: the length of the projectile is relatively insignificant, the initial speed is the maximum possible in favor of the barrel; plus the ability to spit antediluvian sediment at the trunk. Shovels, what's wrong with you?

[Lopatov]

Quote: prodi

projectile length - relatively insignificant

Also limited.

You see, UAS is not a good idea. A system of conventional shells and guided missiles is much more promising. Everyone is doing his own thing.

A long-range active-reactive UAS is a bad idea.

And there is no "antediluvian sludge", at least the charges for the shots will have to be produced anew.

[prodi]

I don’t think that shooting even with a guided projectile further 30-40 km makes sense. In general, the only problem with active-active guided missiles seems to me to be the problem of overcoming rotation after rifling

[Lopatov]

Quote: prodi

In general, the only problem with active-active guided missiles seems to me to be the problem of overcoming rotation after rifling

The main problem is that the engine takes up space. That is, the farther the projectile flies, the less its power at the target.

[prodi]

thank. This we always knew

[Vadim237]

A guided missile can be shot down - with a guided projectile it will be more difficult.

[Lopatov]

Shells have also learned how to shoot.

[Zaurbek]

It's harder .... the projectile is smaller ....

[Lopatov]

Even 81 mm mines learned to shoot

[Zaurbek]

Learned ..... in peacetime at some one facility. What forces?

[Firelake]

Solve the question:
Why is it impossible to throw a projectile at 80+ km from Malka? In the west they throw 80 km out of 155. And then 203?
Purely philistine question, I apologize in advance for the stupidity.
Regarding your comments about 7 minutes and the trajectory, I absolutely agree.

[Lopatov]

Quote: FireLake

Solve the question:
Why is it impossible to throw a projectile at 80+ km from Malka? In the west they throw 80 km out of 155. And then 203?
Purely philistine question, I apologize in advance for the stupidity.
Regarding your comments about 7 minutes and the trajectory, I absolutely agree.

Can. You can even more.
But firstly, every extra kilometer above the maximum firing range is achieved by reducing the weight and volume of explosives. That is, by reducing the power of the projectile at the target.
And secondly, accuracy when shooting at long ranges is very low, and it does not work to compensate for it with the number of shells due to the low rate of fire. Guided missiles needed. and these control systems also take up volume. That is, accuracy can be achieved only by reducing the power of the projectile at the target.

That is, by and large, the question of expediency is here. Especially when you consider the existence in the RF Armed Forces of highly effective long-range MLRS.

[Firelake]

Sorry for the little one. Such a good tool, and in fact is not applicable in the current realities ...
Thanks for the answer. )

[Zaurbek]

Western 155mm howitzers are already shooting Malka ... and the new Coalition, too. We need a new gun and a shell for the same base. And in the same caliber. Range (if 155mm shells shoot at 60-80km) can actually be raised to 100km. A caliber of 203 mm will make it possible to make a shell with ramjet with preservation of the imputed quantity of explosives in the shell.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Zaurbek

A caliber of 203 mm will make it possible to make a shell with ramjet with preservation of the sane amount of explosives in the shell.

At the end of the last century, the Americans were really going to make a 203-mm artillery shell with a ramjet engine and AR.GSN.MM ... Only the decision not to "develop" this caliber in the future prevented such a "dream-idea" from being realized!

[Zaurbek]

but we have already developed a caliber ..... and gun performance is rapidly becoming obsolete. And a hundred things to do.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Only the decision not to "develop" this caliber in the future prevented the realization of such a "dream-idea"!

Rather common sense.
Well, the presence at the level of the division M270 MLRS or HIMARS

[Sergey_G_M]

Well, the Americans approached this problem in a comprehensive way to the MLRS indicated by you, adopted antitank guided bombs, and on this closed the question with large calibers.

[Zaurbek]

But the Russian Federation has failed in tactical aviation and its ammunition (in quality and quantity) .. both the USSR and the Russian Federation compensate for this with missiles and art systems .. that's why they created the Peony. There is a chassis, trunks will exhaust the resource anyway. It is quite possible to develop a new trunk and breech under a large charge power.

[garri-lin]

Approaches the price of a shot to OTR. It’s easier to attach a GOS to a tornado rocket and a pair of guides to any acceptable chassis. It will come out cheaper and more flexible.

[Operator]

The question is simple - when will we upgrade the Tsar Cannon?

[Vadim237]

When we do a 360 mm self-propelled mortar, that would be comparable to the work of a 500 kilogram air bomb at maximum range.

[Bad_gr]

Already completed stage:
420 mm mortar 2B1 ("Transformer") and
406 mm self-propelled gun 2A3 ("Condenser-2P").

[Vadim237]

The war in Ukraine clearly showed that artillery came first.

[samaravega]

I have already written, I have to repeat: since when are the V-46 engine and the BKP from the T-72 tank produced (or at least made once) in Ukraine? Who is the stupid person: Ryabov, Litovkin or Semizorov? If the first two, God bless them: below the plinth are "RIA Novosti" and this site, but if the last ... Times of non-professionals.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: samaravega

..... since when has the B-46 engine and BKP from the T-72 tank been produced (or at least once been made) in Ukraine?

So I'm interested.
In Wik they write:
"Engine and transmission
As a power plant in 2C7, a V-12 four-stroke V-46-1 liquid-cooled diesel engine with supercharged power of 780 hp was used. The V-46-1 diesel engine was created on the basis of the V-46 engine mounted on T-72 tanks. Distinctive features of the B-46-1 were small layout changes associated with its adaptation for installation in the engine-transmission compartment of the SAU 2S7. Of the main differences was the changed location of the power take-off shaft .................... During the modernization of the 2S7M SAU, the power plant was replaced by a V-84B multi-fuel diesel engine with a capacity of 840 liters. with. The transmission is mechanical, with hydraulic control and a planetary rotation mechanism. It has seven forward and one reverse gears. The engine torque is transmitted through a bevel gear with a gear ratio of 0,682 to two final drives [10] [12].
Chassis
The 2S7 undercarriage is made on the basis of the main T-80 tank and consists of seven pairs of double rubberized road wheels and six pairs of single support rollers. There are idler wheels at the back of the machine, driving wheels at the front .... "

And what does it require import substitution?

[Elturisto]

Chassis, engine and transmission Kharkovskoe modified from the T-64.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: ElTuristo

Chassis, engine and transmission Kharkovskoe modified from the T-64.

Can you tell the T-64 from the T-80?
What diesel do you think is there and where is it produced?
Well boxes, maybe. Although Malki weighs 45 tons, most likely they are not from the T-64. For example, when more powerful engines began to be installed on the T-72, the boxes had to be changed as well.

[sen]

Why do we have a guided projectile for a 152 mm gun, but not for a 203 mm?

[Zaurbek]

Because there the main purpose was TNW

[torp]

What is the import substitution on the gun 70s release?