Military Review

Khrushchev's myth of housing construction

308

When they try to prove the positiveness of Khrushchev’s activities, they recall the relocation of the mass of disenfranchised workers from barracks and communal apartments into separate apartments. They also add pension reform and certification of peasants. In fact, these are myths created to whitewash Nikita Sergeyevich, who almost destroyed the USSR by his actions back in the 1960s.


The myth of the leading role of Khrushchev in mass housing construction


According to the generally accepted and very tenacious version, under Joseph Stalin, mostly beautiful houses were built according to individual projects and with spacious comfortable apartments (the so-called Stalin). But because of their complexity and high cost, they were few. Therefore, party and state officials received such apartments and people who managed to stand out and distinguish themselves. Ordinary people huddled in barracks and communal apartments.

Khrushchev offered to reduce the cost, that is, to simplify housing construction, to switch to standard five-story building projects with small, deprived of comfort apartments. They were nicknamed "Khrushchev." Concrete blocks from which it was possible to quickly build a house were made in house-building plants. As a result, according to this myth, a large-scale housing construction program began, and ordinary people began to receive, if not excellent, but their apartment.

However, if you study the documents of the Soviet era - statistical collections "The National Economy of the RSFSR", which provides information on the number of built housing and how many people moved into new apartments, it becomes obvious that this is another myth. It was created in order to at least somehow improve the image of Khrushchev among the people. The factual information completely refutes the legend of mass housing construction in the Khrushchev era. Moreover, Nikita Sergeyevich also managed to spoil so much that the housing problem in the Soviet Union became chronic, unsolvable.

So, after the Great War, active construction of new enterprises was going on throughout the Union. Builders and workers were housed in temporary barracks. At the same time, near the leading enterprises of the settlement, houses were erected for workers of this plant, factory, etc. These were either individual one-story houses with 2-3 rooms with all communications, or two-story houses with 5 apartments. Individual houses worth 10-12 thousand rubles were transferred into the ownership of the owners with a one-percent loan for 10-12 years. The loan repayment amounted to a little more than a thousand rubles per year, or not more than 5% of the family income. Families settled in two-story houses without any payments, since these houses were state-owned. Usually people who came to a new enterprise from all over the country lived in barracks for some time, waiting for the commissioning of normal housing. Such houses accounted for approximately 40-45% of the total urban construction. They consisted of urban-type settlements, small working areas on the outskirts of cities near the enterprise. In the central districts of the cities beautiful multi-storey buildings were erected, “stalinkas”, which became the face of the settlement.

Every year from 1950 to 1956, the number of people who received new apartments in all types of houses increased by about 10%, which corresponded to the growth rate of the gross national income of the USSR. In 1956, 3 million 460 thousand people (more than 6% of the total urban population) received new separate apartments (or houses) in the RSFSR, of which 2 million settled in high-rise Stalin's houses. So much nomenclature was not only in the RSFSR, but throughout the Union.

Pest Khrushchev


Khrushchev’s intervention in the Stalinist construction program began in late 1955. In the Decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR of November 4, 1955, it was prescribed to develop standard designs of residential buildings by November 1, 1956 without any "architectural excesses." That is, Khrushchev was curtailing the program for creating beautiful multi-storey buildings, since that time wretchedness and dullness were introduced in the USSR. True, so far this only concerned the appearance of the houses. The internal layout was left the same. In the Decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR of July 31, 1957, it was directively proposed to develop new standard designs for residential buildings, that is, “Khrushchevs,” and to begin construction of house-building plants. The first "Khrushchevs" began to be built in Moscow in 1958, their mass construction began in the country in 1959, and on an industrial basis in 1961, when the first house-building plants were commissioned.

For the construction of an apartment building, including the zero cycle and the connection of communications, then, as now, it took about a year. Thus, the mass settlement of brick "Khrushchevs" began not earlier than 1960, and industrial - from 1962. It was to be expected that the mass receipt by the population of new apartments began in 1960. But statistics show otherwise. The number of people who entered new apartments in the RSFSR grew from 1955 to 1961 - from 3158 thousand to 5229 thousand (the peak fell in 1959 - 5824 thousand), then the recession begins, from 1962 to 1965 - from 5110 up to 4675 thousand. A similar picture with the square meters built: growth from 1955 to 1960 - from 21,8 to 51,3 million square meters. meters. Then there is a fall, from 1961 to 1965 - from 49,3 to 47,5 million square meters. meters.

Thus, in 1956, 3,4 million people received new apartments in the "Stalin" in the RSFSR. Then the number of new settlers is growing rapidly and reaches 1959 million in 5,8. However, all these people do not enter the "Khrushchev", but in Stalin's apartments and houses! And in 1960, when Khrushchev’s houses appeared, the number of new settlers began to fall. The fall continued until the displacement of Khrushchev in 1964, despite the introduction of industrial construction methods. And further, the number of people who received new apartments gradually decreased with each five-year period. That is, the housing crisis caused by the Khrushchev "perestroika" could not be overcome in the future.

The myth of Khrushchev's priority in housing construction in the USSR was not born from scratch. Mass construction began, but only in one city, in Moscow. In 1957, 12,7 million square meters were built in the Soviet capital. meters of housing in the form of "Khrushchev", that is 25% of all new housing in the RSFSR. During the reign of Nikita Khrushchev from 1956 to 1964, the housing stock of Moscow doubled, for example, in the second Soviet capital, in Leningrad, it grew by only 25%.

Thus, without Khrushchev's “perestroika” in the construction program for the period from 1956 to 1970, 115 million people could get new city apartments and houses, while the population of the RSFSR in 1970 was 81 million. As a result, while maintaining the Stalinist program, the housing problem in the Soviet Union would have been resolved by 1970. At the same time, the houses would be beautiful, comfortable for living. Khrushchev introduced gray and wretched housing, predetermining the appearance of the Red Empire and giving our enemies one more trump card in anti-Soviet propaganda. In reality, over the same period, 72 million people received new apartments of poorer quality, and the number of new settlers has been steadily decreasing since 1959. Khrushchev killed the Stalinist program and created another Union problem - housing (although in the USSR they still tried to solve it in the interests of the people, unlike the Russian Federation).

It is also worth noting that a sharp increase in the increase in commissioned housing in 1957-1959. was caused by another Khrushchev sabotage in the national economy. In 1955, after Malenkov was removed from the post of chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, at the direction of Nikita Khrushchev, a large number of industrial projects and construction projects were frozen. Including new construction enterprises. The freed up human and material resources were allocated for housing construction. But then the growth in the production of building materials also stopped, the labor resources were exhausted, and therefore the commissioning of new housing was reduced. So for the short-term success, which became the main one for the Khrushchev housing myth, they caused tremendous damage not only to housing construction, but also to other sectors of the national economy.

The situation is similar in other areas. For example, the Ministry of Internal Affairs prepared the certification of peasants under Beria. Under pressure from Malenkov, the provision on passports adopted by the USSR Council of Ministers on October 21, 1953 indicated that at the request of any peasant, a passport should be issued to him. However, only since 1976, passports began to be issued to all Soviet citizens everywhere and without special requirements. Therefore, Khrushchev had nothing to do with passports for peasants.

Khrushchev is a destroyer, he did nothing useful for the people. In almost all areas - degradation, landmines. In fact, he carried out "perestroika", prepared the destruction of Soviet civilization, but did not have time to complete his dirty work. However, under Khrushchev, the USSR was able to turn off the right course, which caused an increase in destructive processes that led to the civilizational, national disaster of 1985-1993.
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  1. venaya
    venaya 17 December 2019 05: 03
    +13
    Khrushchev introduced gray and wretched housing, predetermining the appearance of the red empire and giving our enemies one more trump card in anti-Soviet propaganda ..
    Until now, this grayness is shouting to us, in any way, it is still not possible to get rid of it, but it's a pity.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 17 December 2019 05: 38
      +10
      Alas, Khrushch's "followers" are still missing! Here is the "renovation of housing" ringing the alarm! Many people do not want (!) To leave their "Khrushchev"! Because they are located in the central districts of the city (cities), with a developed infrastructure, greenery ... and "stuff like that"! People are "evicted" in "new buildings" on the outskirts of the city, far from the center ... "developed infrastructure and landscaping" will have to wait for many years! But even in the USSR, the Program for the Reconstruction of Panel Houses was proposed and discussed! In the journal "Science and Life" (or maybe "Science and Technology" ... I confuse them ...!) Published several projects of such a reconstruction ... Leaving the outer "boxes", changed the "filling" ... completely or significantly ... depending on the project! Well, think about the "pluses" and possible "minuses" yourself!
      1. rufaqn
        rufaqn 17 December 2019 06: 49
        +16
        this program does not solve the problems of "renovation" since eviction of tenants during the reconstruction is inevitable, and on the way out, what will happen? normal apartments can be arranged as if the ceiling height is 2.35 - 2.40, how not to redesign the cisterns and will remain so.
        In general, most of the "Khrushchevs" were built under Brezhnev. in their worst form, they were built until the mid-70s (I am writing about the Moscow region, in others, probably even longer), but in 70 houses with an improved layout already appeared, but there were prohibitively few of them, and the massive "Brezhnev" 9-12-16 storeys were not far gone from the "Khrushchev"
        I don’t know the reasons for the discontent of Muscovites with the “renovation”, maybe they are convincing, but for me, they got drunk specifically, which is only their indignation about the construction of the MCD and metro stations outside the Moscow Ring Road, it’s not like going to our Moscow because of the Moscow Ring Road. Group selfishness is off the charts
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 17 December 2019 07: 05
          +2
          this Brezhnevka) it turns out there are many differences from the Khrushchev)))
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 07: 12
          +5
          Quote: rufaqn
          I am not aware of the reasons for the discontent of Muscovites with the "renovation", they may be convincing, but for me, they got drunk specifically,

          The apartment in the center is more worth than the MKAD. sad
          1. rufaqn
            rufaqn 17 December 2019 07: 47
            +15
            this is understandable, but no one relocates them outside the MKAD, it is possible from their native street, but all relocations within the district. there is another problem there, on the site of 5 floors 17-24 floors are being built, and the road network, and parking? heating, hot water, energy. which is only worth the fact that new buildings will be with electric stoves instead of gas ones.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 07: 58
              +14
              Quote: rufaqn
              but all relocation within the county.

              Ah, I don’t know about it simply.
              Quote: rufaqn
              5-17 floors are being built on the site of 24 floors, and the road network, and parking? heating, hot water, energy. which is only worth the fact that new buildings will be with electric stoves instead of gas ones.

              I agree with this, Moscow has already looked like a madhouse for a long time. The territory is stupidly not designed for such anthill and loads, but they are all compacted. They will fall underground, they will know. laughing
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 17 December 2019 09: 15
                +3
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                Ah, I don’t know about it.

                )))
                That's right, that is not in the know. Fans of Sergei Semenych a little trick.
                1. bk316
                  bk316 17 December 2019 16: 22
                  +1
                  Fans of Sergei Semenych a little trick.

                  Probably not. Only Troitsk is now SWAD.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 17 December 2019 18: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Fans of Sergei Semenych a little trick.

                    Ok, long topic. Since I’m not ready to deploy, presenting Sergei Semenich removed.
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 17 December 2019 09: 43
                +15
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                ........ The territory is not stupidly designed for such anthill and loads, but they are all compacted. They will fall underground, they will know. laughing

                Under socialism, small towns and rural areas also developed. Schools, medicine, cultural sites ..... These were long-term public development programs. Under capitalism, this is not profitable.""Optimization""
            2. Eug
              Eug 17 December 2019 17: 53
              +1
              As for me, a modern electric stove instead of a gas one is a song, my wife is very pleased that there is no this fat smelly gas soot. Ideally, it would be better to make electric heating (with a night tariff of 50%), it is much better to supply 15 kVA to each apartment than gas, especially in winter. Reconstruction of power grids is easier than gas. And then hot water is not needed - everyone will heat up himself and there will be no losses during centralized supply ...
              1. Alf
                Alf 17 December 2019 20: 16
                +3
                Quote: Eug
                And then hot water is not needed - everyone will heat up himself and there will be no losses during centralized supply ...

                Well, you said no need! But how then to earn on hot (conditionally hot) water? Encroach upon the holy ...
              2. Pathos
                Pathos 18 December 2019 16: 08
                0
                Put a 2-circuit boiler and do not suffer)))) and you will be warm and hot water and you will be happy wink
            3. Revival
              Revival 19 December 2019 09: 14
              0
              That's just beyond the Moscow Ring Road too.
              Here the whole trick is that recently "Moscow" is, for example, Troitsk, I go there to court from Moscow for an hour
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 17 December 2019 08: 24
          +2
          Well, they were built according to still old projects and development plans. Although the buildings of the late 70s and 80s are already much better, I don’t know what you don’t like, but the Khrushchevs, in addition to the 5-story building, are primarily planned through one place with their combined bathrooms and rooms not connected to a common corridor, as they do now, and to each other.
          1. evgen1221
            evgen1221 17 December 2019 18: 48
            +1
            Combined rooms are also from long-term planning of a person’s path - no one thought that parents and children would live long in 2 rooms. Planned to rely on in front of housing for them and guaranteed.
          2. Alf
            Alf 17 December 2019 20: 27
            +1
            Quote: EvilLion
            and rooms not connected to a common corridor,

            And how are these options Khrushchev?

            I personally find that many options are convenient. Yes, cramped, but small kitchen and bathroom, but the layout itself is normal. By the way, in modern new buildings with all the large sizes of apartments there is no hallway as a separate room for changing clothes. It turns out that upon entering, people stomp in dirty boots and boots in the middle of the apartment. I understand that they are copying America, but we are not America.



            1. alstr
              alstr 17 December 2019 22: 22
              +6
              It should be added that when designing the Khrushchevs, they thought not only about the walls themselves, but also about the furniture. Now they are silent about this, but then special sets of furniture were designed and put into production (which later continued on other mass series).
              If you remember, the "mother-in-law's room" is also the result of planning optimization and getting rid of furniture.
              And the passage room is a common room that was not intended for living (i.e. a sleeping place). A leisure area was supposed to be here.

              Unfortunately, several things were not taken into account:
              1. Psychological - people are not robots and rarely lives optimally.
              2. Overpopulation
              3. Production capacities of related products catastrophically lagged behind the pace of housing. By the way, the pace of housing itself also depended on every little thing, and the industry simply did not have time to produce all this.

              And sometimes I want to ask the architect about modern layouts: What did he smoke when he made a layout with a room with 7 corners, half of them sharp?
              After such delights, the layout of the Khrushchev is the top of perfection.
              1. alstr
                alstr 17 December 2019 22: 46
                +2
                YES and one more thing. Any sound idea can be brought to the point of absurdity.
                Unfortunately, we have been different in this for a long time. It is not for nothing that we have a saying: "Make a fool pray to God - he will break his forehead"
              2. pin_code
                pin_code 18 December 2019 06: 30
                +1
                about smoked. literally all new buildings suffer from this. You go into such an elite hut (beaver) and think ... Really do not mind the money for this squalor. PS: I do not need pluses, at least put 100 minuses.
          3. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 18 December 2019 00: 12
            +2
            Later Khrushchev, but at the same time began to build brick 9-story buildings and 11-story buildings in our city. Parameters like Khrushchev and the bathroom are adjacent. And nothing, people now live and do not complain, or maybe shared somehow ....
            Quote: EvilLion
            Well, they were built according to still old projects and development plans. Although the buildings of the late 70s and 80s are already much better, I don’t know what you don’t like, but the Khrushchevs, in addition to the 5-story building, are primarily planned through one place with their combined bathrooms and rooms not connected to a common corridor, as they do now, and to each other.
        4. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 17 December 2019 08: 36
          +16
          Dissatisfaction with the fact that you are going from a decent center to Tryndylyova. Moscow is oversaturated with new buildings, plus the Moscow region received the same rights.
          so they snickered specifically

          Nobody snickered, 3 hours of life only on a trip to work is not it bold?
          Moscow has no need, and even more so for Russia, so that on the site of 5-story buildings in Cheryomushki they set up 20-story buildings, for what? for whom?
          Nobody wants to develop Russia, but they want to cut grandmothers in Moscow
          The concentration of the population in Moscow exceeds the European one.
          I saw how in the former German Democratic Republic they are reconstructing the Khrushchevs, it’s quite worthy.
          Because if the authorities of the Federal Republic of Germany, or some land, or even a city, at the expense of the city budget, would begin to "improve" the life of developers, they would receive, at least, a general strike.
          And "renovation" is a quasi-economy in a country without it.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 17 December 2019 08: 53
            +2
            The concentration of the population in Greater London and Greater Paris in the UK and France or in Greater Tokyo in Japan exceeds the concentration of the population in the metropolitan area of ​​the Russian Federation.
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 17 December 2019 10: 02
              +11
              Excuse me, Sergey, what’s the reason that Moscow has something to strive for?
              In London, the concentration is greater.
              There is no Greater Paris for a long time - the French abandoned this stupidity for a long time, therefore Paris is inferior to Moscow in concentration.
              I have been there more than once, and there, but it feels like there are more people in Moscow, just visually,
              This is taking into account the fact that Paris is the most visited city in the world by tourists.
              I’ll say more, it feels like there are fewer people in Tokyo and Beijing, perhaps Moscow in concentration looks like Hong Kong or Shanghai.
              And this is understandable, 12 million is officially, but how many unregistered Russians from Central Asia?
              Plus, megobred - Greater Moscow, a purely corrupt stray, under the nose of the president.
              It’s high time to abandon this nonsense, otherwise soon all of Russia will be in Moscow + SNgovia
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 17 December 2019 10: 30
                +6
                Eduard Vashchenko ----- 12 million is officially---Well yes! And how many people daily come from the region and leave back after work? In addition, for example, the owner of several apartments ---- is registered in one. Someone lives in other apartments .....
              2. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 17 December 2019 12: 48
                -1
                Edward, I do not quite agree in you.
                Greater London is a formally existing city region of Great Britain. Boris Johnson was just the mayor of Greater London.
                Greater Paris is a term that has been used in France for decades. The problem is that the term is ambiguous.
                Let's order.
                1. Someone understands by him Paris in its natural borders. The fact is that the commune (a department) Paris, which is part of the Ile de France region, occupies only part of the city of Paris within its actual borders. Less than 3 million people live in the commune department of Paris. And in the actual borders of the city, which includes several more departments and the mass of communes, more than 7 million people live. This is the city of Paris in its true borders. Just keep in mind that part of the territory of the above departments and communes is located outside of actual Paris.
                2. Greater Paris also means the administratively unformed Paris agglomeration with a population of more than 10,5 million people. That is, this includes Paris (both within the borders of the commune department and in the actual ones) with its suburbs and companions. This is a highly urbanized area.
                3. Finally, Greater Paris refers to the administratively registered metropolis (inter-municipal association) Greater Paris, formed in 2016, with a population of more than 7 million people. This metropolis is slightly larger than Paris in its actual borders, but smaller than the Paris agglomeration. Several hundred thousand inhabitants of this metropolis, strictly speaking, live outside the city of Paris in its actual borders.
                Finally, each new President of France, each new government developed their own versions of Greater Paris, which were understood as administratively formed territories, as well as bodies of inter-municipal cooperation, and state coordinating structures. There are many such stillborn projects.
                1. Edward Vashchenko
                  Edward Vashchenko 17 December 2019 13: 10
                  +5
                  Sergey,
                  Thank you, I’m aware of Paris, but I don’t have to do with this: it’s big or small Paris, what’s next? And in Shanghai even more, and Mexico City in general is a giant, and Istanbul?
                  Why do we need Mega Moscow? what am I talking about.
                  1. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 17 December 2019 13: 33
                    +1
                    So it really exists. And most of its inhabitants will not agree to leave from there to small towns, and especially to the countryside. But, on the contrary, when I am in Moscow, I am surprised that there are not so many people on the streets. And I would like more skyscrapers.) Somehow pleasing to the eye.) True, I myself prefer my three-hundred thousandth city. But I understand those people, including their friends and relatives who like life in a huge metropolis. As I understand it, and those who do not like Moscow. Or even life in huge cities. People are different. You can’t put a scarf on each mouth.)
                    1. Edward Vashchenko
                      Edward Vashchenko 17 December 2019 15: 13
                      +8
                      It’s not about who decided what, how to whom and where to live, I doubt that the majority rushed to Moscow, because they had been dreaming about it all their lives, just in their 300 thousandth or 500 thousandths and even, in the millionaire - no work or no specialty or pay half as much as in the capital.
                      A simple example, the population of Yekaterinburg is growing, and the Sverdlovsk region is drastically empty.
                      And the country needs decentralization, the development of many centers of the country, the transfer of the center, logistics, and maybe political logistics from Moscow.
                      I’m not talking about horror-horror, but about the future for Russia, and the concentration of inhabitants in the northern country in the style of Paris and London, the times of the industrial revolution of the XNUMXth century, is absurd.
                      Although, if you look from your hut, I personally have nothing to complain about)
                      hi
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 17 December 2019 17: 26
                        -1
                        Well, let's allocate for all 84 entities except the Moscow Region 200 billion rubles so that the work on the ground appears and the infrastructure is put in order - only here is where to get so much money and how to track so that all this money goes as intended and the work was done efficiently.
                      2. Alf
                        Alf 17 December 2019 20: 30
                        +5
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        only here is where to get so much money and how to track so that all this money goes as intended and the work was done efficiently.

                        Familiar song-You can’t invest in the economy, otherwise it will be stolen ..
                        Not tired?
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 17 December 2019 20: 36
                        +4
                        No, do not get tired, he gets a salary for this. Stolen, economically impractical, etc.
                        And at the same time, everything is fine with us, advanced technologies, we are ahead of the rest.
                        So you can only drive at work.
                      4. Alf
                        Alf 17 December 2019 20: 41
                        +5
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        No, do not get tired, he gets a salary for this. Stolen, economically impractical, etc.
                        And at the same time, everything is fine with us, advanced technologies, we are ahead of the rest.
                        So you can only drive at work.

                        Ah, otherwise I’ve prepared a hint for him-that you need to give everything to the private trader. The private owner will see to it that they don't steal a penny (to the side). That's true after the construction business after the 91st gave to the private trader, so for some reason it turned out that sky-high prices and houses from ... and sticks are being built. And the owner, yes, makes sure that no one but him has stolen a dime.
                      5. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 17 December 2019 23: 58
                        +1
                        The country needs to have 3-4 more cities with a population of 3-5 million, with the corresponding agglomerations. And Moscow in any case will remain the main political, cultural and economic center.
                      6. Fat
                        Fat 18 December 2019 01: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        In any case, Moscow will remain the main political, cultural and economic center.

                        The main political center can be moved anywhere, even to Vasyuki, even to Omsk, Novosibirsk, E-burg ..
                        A new city to build for politicians, there would be political will for that.))), As for culture and the economy, it’s difficult with this, you are right.
                        The need to transfer the capital usually arises for a number of different reasons, among which:
                        overpopulation and hypertrophic dominance of the existing capital over the rest of the country
                        to resolve a dispute between cities having equal grounds to claim capital status
                        in view of the direct military threat to the existing capital
                        due to poor geographic and geopolitical position
                        for liberation from the old traditions of public administration and public life
                        to accelerate the development of those territories where a new capital is being created.
                      7. Edward Vashchenko
                        Edward Vashchenko 18 December 2019 07: 16
                        +1
                        Sergey,
                        What for?
                        This is nonsense, and the rest of the territory will be bears and migrant workers roam?
                        And militarily: just one missile and half of Russia covered.
                        The trouble of our country is that everything is concentrated in us, and this is the success of the United States or China: Shanghai is the economic center, Guangzhou is industrial, Beijing is political and nobody concentrates anything, in the USA: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Houston, New York - all by itself. And we have Moscow, Peter, but you won’t look at the rest without tears. laughing
                    2. vindigo
                      vindigo 18 December 2019 10: 18
                      0
                      I thought, only I had the feeling that there were few people in the streets of Moscow. In the evening, the streets are generally empty. Except the center.
            2. Spring fluff
              Spring fluff 17 December 2019 23: 07
              0
              About Paris is not true. There are no such skyscrapers and traffic jams as in Moscow.
          2. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 17 December 2019 10: 25
            +1
            No need about 3 hours .. enough already, of course, if you go by car to Butovo to the River Station at the rush hour, then yes, as well as the metro and stuff, well, not for three hours
            1. Freeman
              Freeman 17 December 2019 22: 06
              +2
              Quote: Andrey VOV
              No need about 3 hours .. enough already, of course, if you go by car to Butovo to the River Station at the rush hour, then yes, as well as the metro and stuff, well, not for three hours

              The route you indicated, only by metro takes 1h 5 min-1h 14min, but you still need to get to this metro. and the work is not located at the very exit of the metro. And yes, the road must be considered "round trip."
              1. Andrey VOV
                Andrey VOV 18 December 2019 06: 27
                -1
                I lived in Stupino, worked in Moscow, the office was on Mentor Lane, so it took me 2 hours 30 minutes to get to work, first by car to Domodedovo, and there was a subway and a bit on foot, so whoever, but not everyone
                1. qQQQ
                  qQQQ 18 December 2019 14: 47
                  +2
                  And we have 3 hours to Moscow + here in the city + in Moscow itself = at least 4 hours and this is one way, accordingly, very many work in the capital, and this is 8 hours a day.
          3. bk316
            bk316 17 December 2019 18: 55
            0
            Moscow has no need, and even more so for Russia, so that on the site of 5-story buildings in Cheryomushki they set up 20-story buildings,

            Yes, they set it up long ago, there are no five-story buildings left there. laughing
          4. pin_code
            pin_code 18 December 2019 06: 35
            0
            here another question ... is there a city budget? and if the city of what it is composed of. and this is a separate and very interesting topic, closely related to the logistics of literally the whole country.
        5. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 17 December 2019 11: 22
          +6
          Hmm. There are problems in Russia, but there are problems in Moscow. And the difference between these problems is that they do not care about Russian problems ...
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 17 December 2019 21: 31
            +3
            There are problems in Russia, but there are problems in Moscow.

            Yeah. As Mikhail Illarionovich Kutuzov said: "To save Russia, you have to burn Moscow." laughing
            1. Freeman
              Freeman 17 December 2019 22: 10
              +4
              Quote: glory1974
              There are problems in Russia, but there are problems in Moscow.

              Yeah. As Mikhail Illarionovich Kutuzov said: "To save Russia, you have to burn Moscow." laughing

              Ryazans tried - did not save. laughing
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 17 December 2019 08: 28
        +2
        Journal "Science and Life"
      3. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 17 December 2019 09: 31
        +3
        It is worth remembering that the simplification, depersonalization under Khrushchev was about all urban planning. If under Stalin metro stations were built "" like palaces ", then under him it became different.
        1. Revival
          Revival 19 December 2019 09: 31
          0
          Now the metro stations are new in a completely different way ...) and have lost the role of a bomb shelter. Practically upstairs
      4. not main
        not main 17 December 2019 22: 30
        +1
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        ... Leaving the outer "boxes", we changed the "stuffing" ... completely or significantly ... depending on the project! Well, think about the "pluses" and possible "minuses" yourself!

        So that's the problem! That these "boxes" were designed for 50 years! More than 70 years have passed ...
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 18 December 2019 00: 59
          +2
          And the buildings of the 17th-18th-19th centuries in Western Europe, in cities that escaped "acquaintance" with WW1 and WW2, were also not counted on for a specific period! And passed in the more notorious "70 years", but they are still used for their direct ("residential") purpose ... I'm not talking about buildings "before the 17th century", which, of course, will be "less" ... There are also examples "from Russia" ...
          This ancient residential building in the center of the Russian city of Vyborg on Krepostnaya Street is a medieval architectural monument. The exact date of construction of the house is unknown, presumably it appeared in the XVI century. Initially, it was a private fortress, then, according to some historians, the first printing house in Vyborg was located here. The building underwent many reconstructions, but all of them were insignificant. Now it houses two apartments in which people live. The city dweller’s house is today considered the oldest residential building in Russia.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 18 December 2019 01: 56
            +2
            PS By the way, panel house building has become widespread in a number of European countries, primarily in countries affected by military operations, as a result of which there was great destruction in cities. Panel houses were built in the GDR, FRG, in the Czech Republic ... And that's where it is, for some reason, they are in no hurry to demolish the "panels", although many years have passed too! They are being reconstructed! For example, "take" the Czech Republic ....:At the same time, mass panel housing construction was carried out in the Czech Republic. Here, panel houses are called "panelacs". They have from 4 to 20 floors, and apart from the height they are no different from each other. Due to the fact that the apartments in these houses have small areas and inconvenient layouts, "panels" are called "rabbit cages".

            The construction of "panels" began in 1953 year, the first inhabitants moved into such a house in Prague 1955 year. At first there were attempts to diversify houses with the help of some architectural elements such as arches or facade decorations, but because of the pace and volume of construction, they quickly forgot about it. By 1991, more than 80 thousand "panels" were erected in the Czech Republic, in which there are 1,2 million apartments. In the past two decades, these houses are being reconstructed, so that their life is extendedfor 40 years. Attempts are also being made to reduce their dullness, in particular by painting the facades in bright colors.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 17 December 2019 07: 23
      +10
      Quote: venaya
      Until now, this grayness is shouting to us, in any way, it is still not possible to get rid of it, but it's a pity.

      This "dullness" has allowed tens of millions of people to get out of overcrowded basements, attics, corridors and barracks to their homes:


      And this happened precisely after 1953. The author ... "does not notice."
      And this happened because immediately after the death of Stalin they were canceled all crazy megaprojects like the Turkmen canal, the Sakhalin tunnel, the polar railway, and the like.
      Eventually huge funds and construction facilities freed upfor the first time aimed specifically at the flashy needs of people.

      In the mentioned by Moscow author:
      Checking the housing problem in 1961 showed that in Moscow alone over three million people live in very poor conditions: huddle in crowded basements, dilapidated huts, abandoned factory buildings, in the attics . On average, the living space for each resident was about 2 square meters. m (RGANI, f. 6, d. 1.742).


      But in general, the level of security Housing 1913 year, the townspeople of the "people's" state reached only by ...1960m gg

      PS especially the hypocritical look of the Stalin era flashy expensive interiors, with dancing fat cherubim children in bas-reliefs, their plump parents with vases, erected in the fasting 40s. Instead of one such, it was possible to build a CITY of ordinary five-story buildings.
      1. venaya
        venaya 17 December 2019 07: 41
        +4
        immediately after the death of Stalin, all crazy megaprojects such as the Turkmen canal, Sakhalin tunnel, the polar railway and the like were canceled ..
        I will just add that just after such cancellations, the rate of development of the country slowly began to slide down .. Is this still not noticeable? But about the construction of "Khrushchevs", so these plans are not at all Khrushchev himself, and just under Stalin they began not only their development but also implementation, there have already been publications on this score .. similar "information".
        1. DenZ
          DenZ 17 December 2019 07: 56
          +8
          Quote: venaya
          I’ll just add that just after such cancellations, the pace of development of the country slowly rolled down .. Is it still not noticeable?

          But is it imperceptible that precisely at this time the flowering of the Soviet military-industrial complex began, which, incidentally, also needed considerable money. And the pace of this development was not at all small. For some reason, we only touch on the topic of construction, as if the country was not engaged in anything else.
          1. venaya
            venaya 17 December 2019 08: 05
            +2
            Quote: DenZ
            it was at this time that the Soviet military-industrial complex began to flourish, which, incidentally, also needed money ..
            That’s the answer to the question, it’s necessary to take money for the military-industrial complex from somewhere .. But where to get it from? It is possible directly due to savings during the construction of housing, or it can be done more efficiently - due to the sharper economic development of the economy of the whole country, that is, precisely due to such mega-projects.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 08: 03
          -2
          Quote: venaya
          I’ll just add that just after such abolition, the pace of the country's development slowly rolled down.

          People can live constantly in emergency mode and "Give !!!"? This is NOT possible. Here is the result.
          Quote: venaya
          But about the construction of "Khrushchevs", so these plans are not at all Khrushchev himself, and they were already under Stalin, not only their development but also implementation began, there have already been publications on this score .. So here it looks like by the way, you need to be more attentive with similar "information".

          Experimental houses, which did not go into mass production, are NOT an implementation.

          Realization is an increase in the growth of housing construction after 1953 due to the cancellation of crazy megaprojects, an abnormal wild expensive pseudo-empire, etc.

          On our central avenue, there is simply a very vivid demonstration of the changing eras, depending on the authorities: there are two elaborate stalinkas with expensive plaster, Turkish stucco molding and bas-reliefs with vases, etc., then several houses without plaster and stucco, but also with bas-reliefs, then more houses, even without bas-reliefs yes
        3. Octopus
          Octopus 17 December 2019 09: 19
          +1
          Quote: venaya
          Is it still not noticeable?

          70 years soon, as Nikita Sergeyevich harms the country. This is this man!
          Quote: venaya
          not Khrushchev’s plans at all, and it was just under Stalin that they began to not only develop them but also implement them, there have already been publications on this subject

          Well, of course. If, after Stalin's death, housing construction doubled in two years, it is the merit of dead Stalin. Who else?
          1. Minato2020
            Minato2020 17 December 2019 10: 20
            +8
            Quote: Octopus

            70 years soon, as Nikita Sergeyevich harms the country. This is this man!

            He is not the first, he is not the last. Somewhere on the Internet was a list of such pests.

            Quote: Octopus

            Well, of course. If, after Stalin's death, housing construction doubled in two years, it is the merit of dead Stalin. Who else?


            Well, of course. Here is an example: Ameliorator came.
            Drained, plowed, sowed the field. Planted forest belts, introduced fertilizers.
            Well, and whose merits in the harvested harvest - combine Khrushchev?
            PS By the way, the meliorator took care of the production of combines for agricultural work.

            Or even simpler: the coach came to the national team - brought up youth, selected staff, conducted training.
            And the subsequent coach took advantage of the work done and attributed the performance to himself.



        4. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 17 December 2019 09: 54
          +5
          Quote: venaya
          immediately after the death of Stalin, all crazy megaprojects such as the Turkmen canal, Sakhalin tunnel, the polar railway and the like were canceled ..
          I’ll just add that just after such cancellations, the pace of development of the country slowly rolled down .. Is it still not noticeable? ......
          Especially noticeable are the results of the abolition of the Stalin environmental program. Every year more and more.
        5. Alf
          Alf 17 December 2019 20: 33
          +2
          Quote: venaya
          But about the construction of "Khrushchevs", so these plans are not at all Khrushchev himself, and just they are already under Stalin

          The first experimental frame-panel houses in Moscow began to be commissioned in 1948. The first was a house on Sokolina Gora (43 Budenny Ave.). Then an entire block began to be erected along the 1st Khoroshevsky passage. These houses had four floors,
        6. pin_code
          pin_code 18 December 2019 06: 42
          -1
          so provide a link to similar information, where is it?
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 08: 02
        +10
        Quote: Olgovich
        But in general, the level of provision of housing in 1913, the townspeople of the "people's" state reached only by ... 1960s

        Olgovich, did not consider how many Germans destroyed square kilometers of housing? At least in one BSSR?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 09: 14
          -14
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Olgovich, did not consider how many Germans destroyed square kilometers of housing? At least in one BSSR?

          But what was stopping before the war? Mongol-Tatar yoke?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 10: 02
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            But what was stopping before the war?

            What before the war? Everything went according to the plans of the five-year plans, and the improvement of the well-being of the people, if I remember correctly, was scheduled for the fourth. Industrialization was the first thing.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 17 December 2019 10: 29
              -11
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              What before the war? Everything went according to the plans of the five-year plans, and the improvement of the well-being of the people, if I remember correctly, was scheduled for the fourth. Industrialization was the first thing.

              You remember incorrectly: the improvement of the well-being of the people was vowed at once after the thief.

              True, "suddenly" request and all the time something ... interfered: like a dancer, yes ...

              Nevertheless, if you read the Reports of January, February 1933, and January 1934 at the 17th congress of those executed, you will find out to what heaven the welfare of owls has grown. citizens: ALL they have become already in 1933 "PROVIDED BY PEOPLE" (read!)

              Or do you .... do not believe the party ?! belay negative
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 17 December 2019 10: 01
          +7
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Olgovich
          But in general, the level of provision of housing in 1913, the townspeople of the "people's" state reached only by ... 1960s

          Olgovich, did not consider how many Germans destroyed square kilometers of housing? At least in one BSSR?

          It would be interesting to know how, before the revolution, peasants who came to work in Petersburg and Moscow provided housing. At best angle. (In a room with other workers) A
          more often - a shift sleep on 2-level beds
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 17 December 2019 10: 35
            -9
            Quote: Reptiloid
            It would be interesting to know how, before the revolution, peasants who came to work in Petersburg and Moscow provided housing. At best angle. (In a room with other workers) A
            more often - a shift sleep on 2-level beds

            It’s enough to KNOW that before the Thief, the growth rate of housing in cities grew FASTER than the growth of the urban population.

            Then it was exactly the opposite.

            Where have settled many millions at the same time escaped from collectivization in the cities despite the fact that the level of housing construction was at the level of 1918? Dugouts, attics, basements, corridors, barracks, etc.
            1. pin_code
              pin_code 18 December 2019 06: 45
              +2
              the last paragraph of the dugout was for sure.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 10: 47
            +5
            Quote: Reptiloid
            It would be interesting to know how, before the revolution, peasants who came to work in Petersburg and Moscow provided housing.

            Well, you read Uncle Gilyay, as I recall. Remember how he worked at some kind of factory, a dyeing shop, where doh people like flies? There, the famous burlak-hero was shrunken, which thundered along the whole Volga with his gang. Yes, and this ... like her, Hitrovka, or what? I read for a long time, forgot already.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 17 December 2019 11: 13
              +6
              I read something, but also a long time ago, since then I read a lot of other things.
              By the way, now there are a lot of stories about how breeders took care of their workers, treated, taught, given pensions, and built alms in almshouses. Here, over the past few years, these stories have appeared ...... We saw the names of excursions on such topics . Olgovich just lives such stories. A year and a half ago, the Doctor (a frequent visitor before) gave amazing figures for Olgovich ....... And Olgovich is the same for the 100th time .....
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Reptiloid
              It would be interesting to know how, before the revolution, peasants who came to work in Petersburg and Moscow provided housing.

              Well, you read Uncle Gilyay, as I recall. Remember how he worked at some kind of factory, a dyeing shop, where doh people like flies? There, the famous burlak-hero was shrunken, which thundered along the whole Volga with his gang. Yes, and this ... like her, Hitrovka, or what? I read for a long time, forgot already.
              1. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 17 December 2019 12: 55
                +2
                Uncle Gilyay, by the way, noted that his health was not shaken, because he ate well and led a healthy lifestyle. Unlike the workers, who refused completely nutritious food, because they lost their appetite, Uncle Gilyai ate everything, even through force.)
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 15: 56
                  -1
                  Quote: Sergej1972
                  Unlike the workers, who refused completely nutritious food, because they lost their appetite, Uncle Gilyai ate everything, even through force.)

                  So he got out of there in time, when he realized what's what. Well, if a merchant exhibited a bucket of caviar to barge haulers for barge haulers (this was when he worked there), it was only because she "got sick of him!"
              2. parusnik
                parusnik 17 December 2019 17: 02
                +3
                hi Dmitry, you still have at least trips there, to the places of Dostoevsky's literary heroes, Crime and Punishment, White Nights .. etc ... And so I advise you to read the humorous story of Podkhodtsev and two others ... A. Averchenko .. . a lot of interesting everyday life of people with a free profession .. How they lived, what they ate ... Immediately become a monarchist ... laughing
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 17 December 2019 23: 50
                  +3
                  Good evening, Alex! hi Since I visited the places mentioned by Dostoevsky quite often, I didn’t plan such an excursion. Petersburg is very interesting, which recalls A.F. Koni. Events were on Petrogradskaya, in the city center as well. On Petrovskaya Embankment (in one of his memoirs), just many workers lived in an apartment and went to the bathhouse on Zoologichesky Prospekt. There were both a common room and a bathhouse. Women were in both the general and the rooms, as it is written. What was the source of conflict.
                  And I can’t be a monarchist lol lol But I know those who just cried with tenderness, negative as under the king both workers, peasants, and bourgeois lived well. And the bourgeoisie on the bottom step of their bourgeois ladder ---- lived better than the workers, but hard.
              3. t7310
                t7310 20 December 2019 06: 00
                0
                Do you want to present the tsarist authority in a negative light, referring to some kind of book? Well, there are books for every taste, Salzhenitsyn, Freddy Krueger, Aliens, and so on and so forth,
      3. apro
        apro 17 December 2019 08: 10
        +7
        Quote: Olgovich
        But in general, the level of provision of housing in 1913, the townspeople of the "people's" state reached only by ... 1960s

        Here from this place in more detail .. and which townspeople specifically?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 09: 17
          -7
          Quote: apro
          Here from this place in more detail .. and which townspeople specifically?

          Ordinary townspeople. True, while the nomenclature is ahead of everyone:
          In the distribution of apartments and building materials, glaring social inequality was observed. The poorest 70% of the population were workers, but they received only 30% of the new apartments, while the remaining 30% of the population received 70% of the housing. Many more apartments were built for employees of the State Planning Commission and other government committees and ministries than for workers in Moscow enterprises. (RGANI, f. 6, op. 6,)
          1. apro
            apro 17 December 2019 09: 21
            +4
            Stop ... and to the level of 1913. it is clear that the Bolsheviks were the Russian people spread rot ... would I like to hear how God's chosen emirators solved the housing problem or did it not exist then?
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 17 December 2019 10: 08
              +4
              Quote: apro
              Stop ... and to the level of 1913. it is clear that the Bolsheviks were the Russian people spread rot ... would I like to hear how God's chosen emirators solved the housing problem or did it not exist then?

              They, the amperators did not bother. I wrote about the housing of the workers above. The family of those workers either remained in the village, or it could not exist under such conditions. And the women? There were of course. Koni mentions this. We walked near the baths. There were also "" girls living on their own "" ---- the wording is
            2. Stas157
              Stas157 17 December 2019 10: 40
              +8
              Quote: apro
              I would like to hear how God's chosen ampirators solved the housing problem or did it not exist then?

              So it did not exist for them. What will be built, all right. There were hardly any housing programs for ordinary people! Meet the surroundings of Nizhny:


              It is in such "mansions", according to Olgovich, that the people were chic under the tsar. With the presence of a separate bathroom from the house and with the presence of hot water (if you heat up cold water, previously brought from the well).
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 17 December 2019 11: 46
                -4
                Quote: Stas157
                It was in such "mansions", according to Olgovich, that the people were chic under the tsar.
                This is the usual housing for factory workers:

                In such peasants (not all, but everyone was striving for this):

                Peasant hut in the village of Martyanovo, 1910

                Your ruined TENS OF THOUSAND Russian villages themselves in the vicinity admire
                1. Alexander Suvorov
                  Alexander Suvorov 17 December 2019 16: 25
                  -3
                  Mr. LIAR, why is it so clumsy? Where did the color cameras come from in 1910, and even with that resolution? And in the first photo, on the far house on the left, the inscription is not in Russian.
                  1. Freeman
                    Freeman 17 December 2019 19: 26
                    +4
                    Alexander Suvorov (Alexander Suvorov) Today, 16:25
                    Mr. LIAR, why is it so clumsy? Where in 1910 color cameras were, and even with such a resolution?

                    Respected Alexander Suvorov, in this case you are wrong (alas, you are "minus").
                    These color photographs were taken by S.M. Prokudin-Gorsky.
                    In 1909 — 1916 years Prokudin-Gorsky traveled a significant part of the Russian Empire, photographing ancient temples, monasteries, factories, city views and a variety of everyday scenes.
                    / wiki /

                    Yes, the presented images underwent digital restoration, since most of the images were preserved in approximately this form.


                    And in the first photo, on the far house on the left, the inscription is not in Russian.

                    Here is this inscription


                    Threat.
                    Advice: - To find information on a published image, right-click on it and select “find image (Google)” or “Find this image in Yandex”. hi
                  2. Mcar
                    Mcar 18 December 2019 01: 12
                    +3
                    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                    Where did the color cameras come from in 1910, and even with that resolution?

                    Already been. And the resolution on many photos is excellent.

                    Color photography was already known, albeit not widely, in the second half of the 19th century. Moreover, different technologies were used - there was a search for the best. If you type in a search engine "color photo before the revolution" and look at the pictures, you can find a lot of interesting things.
                2. vadimtt
                  vadimtt 19 December 2019 11: 38
                  +1
                  Most interesting is whether Olgovich specifically presented not b / w photographs of that period, but rather still little-known works of Prokudin-Gorsky bully
                  I myself recently learned about it and watched this actually living story in color pictures, it was already breathtaking and something ached at the heart! What a pity that not everything survived, but what survived survived despite sad
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 19 December 2019 13: 31
                    -1
                    Quote: vadimtt
                    Most interesting - specially whether Olgovich presented not b / w photographs of that period, but rather still little-known works of Prokudin-Gorsky

                    You are absolutely absolutely right. For a completely different perception
                    Quote: vadimtt
                    I myself recently learned about it and watched this actually living story in color pictures, already breathtaking and something ached at the heart!

                    same. How do you get into the past in a time machine?
                    There is a large amount of work on objects for which photographs were taken today - from that angle and distance.

                    Amazing impression!
            3. Olgovich
              Olgovich 17 December 2019 10: 42
              -6
              Quote: apro
              Stop ... and to the level of 1913. it is clear that the Bolsheviks were the Russian people spread rot ... would I like to hear how God's chosen emirators solved the housing problem or did it not exist then?

              belay BUILDED housing. Rather, let’s build

              This is not stalin, this Russia at the beginning of the 20th century.

              Mortgage, cooperatives, ind. construction, rented housing, it was all already then.
              1. apro
                apro 17 December 2019 11: 35
                +4
                Quote: Olgovich
                Rather, let’s build

                As I understand it, did the apirators not have a targeted housing program for the general population? And at the state expense no one has benefited ???? ...... strange ..
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 17 December 2019 11: 55
                  -7
                  Quote: apro
                  As I understand it, did the apirators not have a targeted housing program for the general population? And at the state expense no one has benefited ???? ...... strange ..

                  Don’t you read? Once again: Before the thief, housing was on the city dweller MORE than in the USSR until 1960.
                  WHAT is not clear then?

                  Above is a graph of the "beneficence" of the people for decades by your leaders
                  1. apro
                    apro 17 December 2019 12: 22
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    WHAT is not clear then?

                    It is unclear with what to compare. Commercial housing and state housing programs. Commercial then and now is not at all for the majority of the population ...
                    You are comparing the living conditions of the population above average prosperity with the empire and the average citizen of the USSR, this is not entirely correct.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 17 December 2019 17: 01
                      +4
                      There is such a topic, when Olgovich compares the House of Benoit, saying, "" that there was more housing for a citizen, "maybe those workers who came from the villages were not considered citizens? Didn't they even exist? And if you look at the iconic houses, there are more areas for a citizen. And Okhta, for example --- a village, was, and other places, maybe they were not considered a city. Here is how and whom to count?
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 18 December 2019 07: 37
                      -4
                      Quote: apro
                      It is unclear with what to compare. Commercial housing and state housing programs. Commercial then and now is not at all for the majority of the population ...

                      with METERS, which were in the city dweller then and during the USSR.

                      The apartment in which you live in the USSR IS NOT YOURS, but is leased under the Hiring Agreement.
                      You have NOTHING. Generally. You can’t give it to children.
                      Unlike Russia.
                      Quote: apro
                      You are comparing the living conditions of the population above average prosperity with the empire and the average citizen of the USSR, this is not entirely correct.

                      WHERE a link to the status, what nonsense?
                  2. hohol95
                    hohol95 17 December 2019 16: 13
                    +3
                    Dear Olgovich (Andrey) - I have a question for you. As an expert on the pre-revolutionary life of RI, explain where those who served the Winter Palace lived? Where did ALL the servants (PEOPLE) working in the Palace live?
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 17 December 2019 16: 48
                      +3
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Dear Olgovich (Andrey) - I have a question for you. As an expert on the pre-revolutionary life of RI, explain where those who served the Winter Palace lived? Where did ALL the servants (PEOPLE) working in the Palace live?

                      Although I'm not Olgovich fellow but I read that they lived like that in the palace, in the utility rooms, in the attics, some sort of utility stairs or under the stairs ....
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 17 December 2019 17: 44
                        +4
                        They also managed to keep cattle in the palace ...
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 16: 21
                  +8
                  Quote: apro
                  As I understand it, did the apirators not have a targeted housing program for the general population?

                  And Olgovich, the homeowner of St. Petersburg, as I recall. It seems like he still has documents stored either for the St. Petersburg apartment, or for the house. It is interesting what the hater of the USSR Ivanov, who is also from St. Petersburg, would have said if we had done restitution, as in the Baltic, giving property to the pre-revolutionary owners, and Olgovich would have pinned him out of Chisinau? laughing Precisely there would be a painting by Repin "They Didn't Expect" ... wink
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 18 December 2019 07: 51
                    -1
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    And Olgovich, the homeowner of St. Petersburg, as I recall. It seems like he still has documents stored either for the St. Petersburg apartment, or for the house.

                    It is enough that a photograph of my family is in the exposition of one of the Museums of St. Petersburg.

                    He visited the house of his great-grandfather in St. Petersburg: judging by the state of the front door, since 1917 it has not been repaired ....

                    Happy ", you see, people lived there in conscientious" blessed times ... yes
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 17 December 2019 11: 39
                +13
                Olgovich! This is the Benoit House. Kamennoostrovsky 26-28!
                But ---- this is not a house, but a whole residential complex, rather, occupying an entire block. Many people immediately recognize him from various films, because Lenfilm is nearby. So far I remembered Gangster Petersburg. The house was built according to the project of the "Three Benois" and Gunst. New - several dozen built-in garages. Among the first residents was the son of the Grand Duke, Konstantin Romanovich ----- Gavril Konstantinovich (before that he lived in the Marble Palace)
                Construction ordered by the Insurance Company. The richest people lived then.
                1. alstr
                  alstr 17 December 2019 14: 42
                  +5
                  And I will add that the house was the STANDARD of pre-revolutionary construction, i.e. approximately like in Soviet times, Stalin's skyscrapers.
                  There were opposite examples. For example, the Panaevsky Theater. It is almost next to the Winter Palace. There was a hostel in the WWII. The theater burned down because of the residents, but when they began to disassemble it, it turned out that it was unclear how it stood at all, because everything that was possible was broken.

                  So everything is relative. It should be noted that in the capital there were very strict building rules.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 17 December 2019 16: 41
                    +3
                    Stalinist skyscrapers? Although I know their history, I've been to Moscow ---- I've been --- never had a chance inside. But about our Leningrad Stalinists, I can say that they were built differently. And "more abruptly" "and simpler. Been inside many similar apartments, most of them were communal. And, for example, there are 5-6 rooms in front of the Finlyandsky railway station, the ceilings are very high, the stucco molding is inside, the window is in the corridor. Elevator. And somewhere 2 rooms, small adjacent! bathroom, elevator, mostly absent.
              3. Freeman
                Freeman 17 December 2019 20: 01
                +5
                Olgovich (Andrey) Today, 10:42
                BUILDED housing. Rather, let’s build
                This is not Stalin, this is Russia at the beginning of the 20th century.

                Olgovich! Do not distort!
                The Benois apartment house at the beginning of the 250th century became the largest residential complex in the city. It was built by order of the First Russian Insurance Company. Two brothers-architects Benoit - Leonty and Albert - and their cousin Julius Benoit worked on the project. That is why the building began to be called the House of the Three Benoits. The complex occupied almost a whole block. In several buildings connected by a whole system of courtyards, XNUMX apartments were planned. The house was equipped with the latest technology of those years: there was steam heating, elevators, electricity, a telephone, its own power station, an incinerator, a boiler room and a laundry room. In the lower floors, carriage sheds and car garages were arranged for residents.

                Wealthy officials and writers, architects and merchants lived here.


                If you really want to show an exemplary house for the poor, built in the Republic of Ingushetia, then post at least this "picture"


                The working town of the Partnership to Combat Housing. Residents of the new house. Karl Bulla's photo studio. October 27, 1906. Petersburg, Gavanskaya st., 71, bldg. 1.


                The residential complex includes apartments for more than 1000 residents. 198 small-sized apartments (in one, two, less often three rooms) without corridors were intended for family workers. The lonely were provided with one of 127 separate rooms with shared kitchens, toilets and bathrooms. In the end parts of the houses from the side of the avenue shops and nurseries were arranged. In the ground floor of the building in the depths of the plot there was a four-year school with a recreation hall. The elliptical protrusion of the middle building housed a community center: a tea-dining room, a library and a hall for public gatherings with pop music and cinema equipment. The project of the town also included a chapel, squares and a playground for games.

                The opening of the Havana working camp took place in December 1906. All apartments had water heating and ventilation. Each house had elevators.


                Threat. This is a house built by a charity community, as an exemplary
                “But how many similar houses were compared to the total mass?”
                - Poorly small!
                ZY.ZY. By the way, and your previous examples:
                - "This is the usual housing for factory workers."
                This is the Kovzhinsky sawmill (1909), and it is not a fact that workers live on this street, not the factory administration (the plant was located in very remote places).
                - "Peasant hut in the village of Martyanovo, 1910".
                This picture was taken on the Chusovaya River in Siberia. And the house clearly belongs to a well-to-do peasant. "Fists", they did not appear under the Soviet regime.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 18 December 2019 08: 04
                  -5
                  Quote: Freeman
                  If you really want to show an exemplary house for the poor, built in the Republic of Ingushetia, then post at least this "picture"

                  WHERE do I focus on the poor?
                  DIFFERENT houses were built for different people.
                  Quote: Freeman
                  “But how many similar houses were compared to the total mass?”
                  - Poorly small!

                  Once again: housing in cities in Russia was per person MORE than in the USSR, he caught up with Russia already in the .... 1960s.
                  50 years old, down the drain!
                  Quote: Freeman
                  This is the Kovzhinsky sawmill (1909), and it is not a fact that workers live on this street, not the factory administration (the plant was located in very remote places).

                  Fact
                  Quote: Freeman
                  This picture was taken on the Chusovaya River in Siberia. And the house clearly belongs to a well-to-do peasant. "Fists", they did not appear under the Soviet regime.

                  It’s for sure, under the power of conscience all the peasants became poor.

                  By the way, this power built EMPTY on the site of this house and this village - both the house and the village disappeared, the grass grows, as there was no life under Russia. How the pestilence passed. . As in place of TENS of THOUSAND other Russian villages.
                2. andrew42
                  andrew42 18 December 2019 19: 03
                  +2
                  R. Chusovaya in the Kama region. This is the European part. But on the whole you are right. Olgovich's popular prints are something manic. It is necessary to rush to the Perm Motovilikha (before the revolution it was a separate working "city"), maybe not all the huts were demolished on the Solikamsk tract yet - take a picture. ... Ordinary such huts, maybe somewhere in 2 floors, but not more than 1/3, there were a lot of them poked around the factories - who cleared where, without "backs" like in villages, a small courtyard is a small town and even then not in all, - nowhere ... And these were the homes of well-paid, skilled workers! Apparently, in Motovilikha, the war on the streets in 1905 was from a well-fed good life - the whole Panorama is dedicated to this. The Cossacks barely coped. In Olgovich's color pictures, the houses are more reminiscent of the classic "summer cottages" of that period. The administration could live in such. In Perm, Slavyanov himself lived in a house not as popular as these "Olgovichi dachas". Well, purely Saxony! Baden-Württemberg, and nothing else .. Bakeries are crystal bakers.
              4. Hantengri
                Hantengri 17 December 2019 21: 20
                +5
                Quote: Olgovich
                BUILDED housing. Rather, let’s build


                This is not Stalin, this is Russia at the beginning of the 20th century.

                Olgovich, bravo! You - that we kick on the owl, that the owl on the stump ... Enviable persistence.
                Quote: HanTengri
                (Igor) 1 November 4, 2017 11:14
                +12
                1917 revolution of the year: from the "bread superpower" to the industrial giant
                Quote: Olgovich
                Olgovich
                By the way, about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960

                Wow! Again voices in the head reported? Nate, the sufferer for the "brutally trained kulak children", enlighten! Just be careful, don’t choke on the bun!
                “From the information we have received, we learn that from 4 to 73 people were accommodated in one apartment. There were more than ten people in 30 apartments, more than twenty in 11 apartments. One to twenty people were placed in one room. 13 times in one room there were more than ten Of 117 rooms, less than one cubic fathom [2] per person was 83, 1 to 2 in twenty, 2 to 3 in ten, and more than 3 cubic soot in four rooms. -0,4-0,5 cubic meters of soot per person Square floor area per 0,7-0,3 square meters of soot [0,5], 3 times less than the first square soot., 81 times from 1 to 23 sq. Soot Eighteen people lived in rooms without windows.
                ...... Sanitary doctor of the Alexander Nevsky part, Dr. Prokopovich, gives some interesting descriptions of apartments occupied by workers from the Neva paper mill [13].

                The apartment is located on the second floor of an old stone two-story house, in which there are up to twenty apartments. It consists of three rooms and a kitchen. Stroke through the kitchen. Water is delivered from the Neva in barrels, stored in the kitchen in a tub. The tub is dirty. Simple latrine on the stairs. The apartment has six windows. Enough for the light. There are windows in the rooms, but not in the kitchen. Two Dutch ovens and a Russian one. The walls are painted with glue and bear signs of dampness. The fee for the apartment is 24 p. 50 to. Without firewood. 29 people live in it: 24 men and 5 women. In the first room there are 10 people, again in five beds, in the second and third for six people and three beds. There are seven people and four beds in the kitchen. For each living in the apartment there are about 0,8 cubic meters. and 0,6 square meters. soot. Fee for bed 3 p. with the service.
                ....... The apartment is on the fourth floor. It consists of two rooms, a kitchen and a corridor. Simple latrine on the stairs. The janitor from the Neva in barrels carries water. Water is stored in a tank that is poorly contained. The apartment has three windows overlooking the latrine and the garbage pit. Enough for the light. The rooms and the kitchen have air vents. One Dutch and one Russian stove. In the rooms, the walls are papered, and in the kitchen and in the corridor painted with glue; the walls in the corners and under the windows are cheesy. Musty and damp air. The fee for the apartment is 14 p. without firewood.

                Mostly family workers with a Neva paper spinning mill live in this apartment. Only 15 people (6 men, 6 women and 3 children). Each room accommodates two families (4 and 6 people). Four people fit in the kitchen, and one woman in the dark corridor. For each living in the apartment accounts for 0,5-1,0 cubic meters. and 0,4-0,8 square meters. soot. In the first room and in the kitchen, the fee for a bed is 3 rubles. 50 K., and in the second 4 p., In the corridor 3 p. Obviously, in the second room, the board is more expensive, because there are more children and more space.

                According to the sanitary doctor, in this apartment the payment for corners is more expensive, because here the rooms are more spacious and there are not so many residents. In addition, the apartment is located close to the factory. In general, says Dr. Prokopovich, a room closer to the factory is paid more. If the board is the same, then the room itself is cramped and dirtier.
                ...... The vast majority of single St. Petersburg workers sleep together in the same bed - this should seem wild and strange to someone who is used to seeing that every adult has a separate bed. But in St. Petersburg there is an even more amazing phenomenon than half a bed - this is the complete absence of beds and sleeping on working tools. The following is a description of such dwellings, delivered by Dr. Leshchinsky, the medical officer of the Spassky unit. These dwellings are in the house of Prince. Vyazemsky, who is described by him as follows.
                ..... In this apartment there live handicraftsmen basketbers who work here. Only 17 people: the owner with his wife and 15 men. Of these, nine work for themselves, and six for the owner.

                The first room accommodates thirteen people. There are no beds. Sleeping on workbenches. In the second husband and wife, and in the third two workers who sleep on the same bed. For everyone living in the apartment there is a little more than 1 1/2 cubic meters. soot. air. Self-employed people pay 2 p. 50 K. for the place where the workbench stands. The first room has a Russian stove, and it serves as a kitchen. "The owner works in it with two adult workers and four students and the remaining nine handicraftsmen."
                Pokrovskaya M.I. In the basements, attics and corner apartments of St. Petersburg. (Published in the journal Russian Wealth, 1897, No. 6.) http://saint-juste.narod.ru/rabochie_1.html
                http://library6.com/3596/item/304882 (PDF с ятями, как Вы любите).
                https://topwar.ru/128788-revolyuciya-1917-goda-ot-hlebnoy-sverhderzhavy-do-promyshlennogo-giganta.html#comment-id-7519291
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 18 December 2019 00: 25
                  +3
                  Cool comment, dear Khan! Once for Olgovich these figures were written by the Doctor!
                  I wanted to copy myself, but distracted. And Olgovich writes the same thing repeatedly in his training manual. what what
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 18 December 2019 08: 09
                    -6
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    Cool comment, dear Khan! Once for Olgovich these figures were written by the Doctor!
                    I wanted to copy myself, but distracted. And Olgovich writes the same thing on his training manual more than once.


                    How does this refute the fact that in Russia the city dweller accounted for MORE m2 than in the USSR before 1960?

                    In what horror did the townspeople live until 1960? Do not think of it?
                    1. Revival
                      Revival 19 December 2019 17: 22
                      -1
                      I understand that of course you took into account the percentage of the urban population in 1913 and 1960, which, therefore, the state needed to provide housing?
                      Although I doubt that in RI this was generally taken care of at the state level
      4. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 17 December 2019 08: 19
        +11
        Totally agree with you. I don’t harbor any feelings for Khrushchev’s rule, but "Khrushchev" needs a monument! Only for the fact that people have moved from barracks and dugouts to separate, small-sized, but OWN apartments, without a garbage can at the entrance, without a washstand on the street and smoking "bourgeois"!
        I myself am a civil engineer and I know what I am writing about! And the figures proposed by the author need to be checked. Often in unipolar articles, some data groups are "forgotten".
        In general, I consider the article denigrating our Soviet past!
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 09: 13
          +4
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          I myself am a construction engineer and I know what I'm writing about!

          Colleague hi
          You are absolutely right: I found these times when people from an unimaginable crowded place, where they lived on one another and moved to Khrushchev, how much happiness everyone had!
        2. Octopus
          Octopus 17 December 2019 09: 27
          +6
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          digits proposed by the author, you need to check

          The author's figures are just enough to read carefully. His "spacious beautiful stalinka" brought 3.4 million people in 21 million square meters, 6 meters per person. The ugly Khrushchevs were occupied by 5.3 million people in 51 million square meters, almost 10 square meters per person. There is something wrong with the spacious and beautiful.

          Specifically, the fact that Stalin is not a high-rise on Kotelnicheskaya. This is a hut, above all.
          1. Minato2020
            Minato2020 17 December 2019 10: 24
            +6
            Quote: Octopus

            Specifically, the fact that Stalin is not a high-rise on Kotelnicheskaya.
            This is a hut, above all.


            Stalin at the price of Khrushchev - a realtor's dream)))
        3. evgen1221
          evgen1221 17 December 2019 19: 19
          +2
          You’re a plus from me, but there is an objection, Khrushchev’s didn’t appear on their own instantly, as an engineer you should understand that in 2 years the project, the resources of the development site on the general plans of the cities and the factories themselves will not immediately appear, but serious work is needed in advance. As everything is prepared, then yes things go quickly. And what we have, when the ITTs thought about this and prepared it, and Khrushchev once again appropriated another's merits to himself. After Stalin, another type with such a vile character would have called these houses by his name.
          1. Alf
            Alf 17 December 2019 20: 50
            +8
            Quote: evgen1221
            And what we have, when the ITTs thought about this and prepared it, and Khrushchev once again took upon himself another's merits.

          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 18 December 2019 09: 04
            -3
            Quote: evgen1221
            for 2 years the project, the resources of the development site on the general plans of cities and themselves combines instantly will not appear, but serious work is needed in advance. As everything is prepared, then yes things go quickly. And what we have, when the ITTs thought about this and prepared it, and Khrushchev once again appropriated another's merits.

            1. The first DSC is built in through 8 years after the death of Stalin and he to them. respectively. has nothing to do.
            2. general plans are TENS years in advance.
            3. Stalin "did not have time", he died, yes: then show his PLANS for the construction of housing, built in kind under Khrushchev.
            No? So what is the conversation about? request
      5. EvilLion
        EvilLion 17 December 2019 08: 25
        +3
        Just the power was not released anywhere, but on the contrary were closed, but you jump further in your anti-Stalinist hysteria.
        1. Pedrodepackes
          Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 09: 18
          -3
          Quote: EvilLion
          power was not released anywhere, but on the contrary were closed

          so they freed themselves. because they were closed and redirected to another channel, incl. and space exploration.
          Quote: EvilLion
          jump on in your anti-Stalinist hysteria.

          Do you, as I understand it, have anti-Khrushchev hysteria?
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 09: 28
          -5
          Quote: EvilLion
          Just the power was not released anywhere, but on the contrary were closed, but you jump further in your anti-Stalinist hysteria.

          Just need to know at least the materials July 1956 Plenum of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Unionto carry something

          But don't be distracted in your ecstasy

          It’s a pity, of course, that you cannot, to strengthen it, strain on tax on fishing, on a bicycle, on a dog, on chickens, small families and childlessness and omit 20% annual salary for "voluntary" loan , to condemn for undelivered eggs or for being late ... yes
          1. Minato2020
            Minato2020 17 December 2019 10: 28
            +6
            Quote: Olgovich

            ... tax on fishing, on a bicycle, on a dog, on chickens, small children and childlessness


            Soon it will all be, maybe not right away ...
            Plus taxes on wells and rainwater ...
            1. AK1972
              AK1972 17 December 2019 16: 32
              +3
              Soon it will all be, maybe not right away ...
              It will be. Not so long ago, someone Tkachev gave birth to a bill on the tax on the collection of mushrooms and berries, and there are no lakes where you can fish for free and already in the afternoon you will not find fire.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 18 December 2019 09: 13
              -2
              Quote: Minato2020
              Soon it will all be, maybe not right away ...

              Glory to God, let's be back. finally, in the Stalinist times! yes
              1. Minato2020
                Minato2020 18 December 2019 09: 18
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Minato2020

                Soon it will all be, maybe not right away ...

                Glory to God, let's be back. finally, in the Stalinist times! yes


                The Russian Federation will legally refuse to be tied to the dollar settlement system?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 18 December 2019 10: 39
                  -3
                  Quote: Minato2020
                  RF legislatively refuses to bind

                  Nope, back to this:

                  tax on fishing, on a bicycle, on a dog, on chickens, small children and childlessness, and to lower the annual salary by 20% on a "voluntary" loan, condemn for undelivered eggs and for being late ..
                  or are you .... against ?! belay This is no way .... request
                  1. strannik1985
                    strannik1985 18 December 2019 12: 06
                    0
                    tax on fishing, on a bicycle, on a dog, on chickens, small children and childlessness, and to lower the annual salary by 20% on a "voluntary" loan, condemn for undelivered eggs and for being late.

                    Putting "voluntary" loans and restrictions on changing jobs are both good and bad.
                    A loan means there is too much money in the economy, or they are not provided (markets, yes), or enterprises produce "A" class products, which are used for state needs, and not consumer goods. Inflation has to be fought, at least in the market economy, even in the social economy.
                    But with a "place of work" it is good, it means that the economy is growing by leaps and bounds, experts are in price, so they can mess around arbitrarily changing their place of work, but it is bad because the law was passed just before the war, when it burned down in the aviation industry.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 18 December 2019 12: 47
                      -4
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      A loan means too much money in the economy, or they are not secured (markets, yes)

                      this means that there is NO MONEY in the state and it fraudulently took it from people.
                      So you give away 20% of the annual earnings? Plus all the taxes above, plus s / taxes, plus the delivery of products in kind, self-tax?

                      Maladets! And people will never give up.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      But with a "place of work" it is good, it means that the economy is growing by leaps and bounds, experts are in price, so they can mess around arbitrarily changing their place of work, but it is bad because the law was passed just before the war, when it burned down in the aviation industry.

                      Is it your business to decide WHERE people work? Learn what SLAVE work is. And when he disappeared in the world (except for the "nogodny" country)
                      1. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 18 December 2019 12: 56
                        0
                        this means that there is NO MONEY in the state and it fraudulently took it from people.

                        He doesn’t need these pennies, but the glut of the market with money threatens to increase prices and inflation. By God, how small.
                        Is it up to you to decide WHERE people work?

                        I mean, as a state before the Third World War? wink Just like me, otherwise this worker on German bayonets will die.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 18 December 2019 13: 00
                        -4
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        He doesn’t need these pennies, but the glut of the market with money threatens to increase prices and inflation. By God, how small.

                        do not talk nonsense about "pennies" for loans.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        I mean, as a state before the Third World War? Just like me, otherwise this worker on German bayonets will die.

                        What "state", dear man ?!
                        NOBODY have ever chosen these rulers and entrusted nothing.

                        "You can't, don't torture !!" The people will choose the ABLE.
                      3. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 18 December 2019 13: 44
                        +1
                        do not talk nonsense about "pennies" for loans.

                        Dear opponent, let it be known to you that, for example, on 01.12.1936 all the money in the country was 11 million rubles, and the revenue side of the budget for the same year was 116,2 million rubles, while on 64/592,2/01.12.1929 g of money in the USSR 2 million. For the budget, what was collected was a penny, but the money supply grew (those same salaries, yes) at times (for example, to 961,5/01.12.1939/22 to 135,3 XNUMX million).
                        What "state", dear man ?!

                        The most ordinary, it happened at state factories.
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 19 December 2019 10: 04
                        -1
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Dear opponent, let it be known to you that, for example, on 01.12.1936 all the money in the country was 11 million rubles, and the revenue side of the budget for the same year was 116,2 million rubles, while on 64/592,2/01.12.1929 g of money in the USSR 2 961,5 million. For the budget, what was collected, a penny,

                        Dear Vladimir, I will not give a lecture on WHAT loans are for; there is a lot of popular literature for this.
                        The main goal is not to collect waste paper in the form of banknotes, as you write, but to receive the MEANS for something.
                        Government loan - one of the forms of credit in which the state acts as the borrower.
                        And let it be known to you that in the USSR about 65 bond loans were issued.
                        In the period from 1923 to 1957 the Soviet state received from loans almost the same income as all other taxes and fees. https://finance.rambler.ru/other/40607443/?

                        such a "little thing" ....
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        The most ordinary is in state factories

                        and on planet Earth, yes ...

                        no one instructed the "leaders" to do this. since I did not choose anywhere, we are talking about it.
                      5. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 19 December 2019 11: 17
                        0
                        In the period from 1923 to 1957, the Soviet state received income from loans almost the same as all other taxes and fees.

                        Taxes and fees from the population is also a minuscule, for 1936 taxes and fees from the population of 3 million (761,4%)., State loans among the population of 4,2 million (3%), the main the income item was turnover tax of 450,6%.
                        no one instructed the "leaders" to do this.

                        Those. according to your wonderful logic, as with the treaties in 1939. It didn’t work, then lower your legs and go to die laughing
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 19 December 2019 13: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Taxes and fees from the population are also miserable,

                        Do not laugh, for "minuscule" does not tear the ass.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Those. according to your wonderful logic, as with the treaties in 1939. It didn’t work, then lower your legs and go to die

                        why so? Shooting is an even better option. For all.

                        Another is to vacate an illegally occupied place through general elections.
                      7. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 19 December 2019 15: 25
                        0
                        Do not make me laugh

                        And there was no thought. After all, loans were not only acquired by the population, in the year 1936 savings banks 999,6 million, state insurance bodies 400 million, cooperatives 41,8 million, only 1 million. In fact, the state transferred money from the right pocket to the left.
      6. Mcar
        Mcar 17 December 2019 09: 41
        +9
        Quote: Olgovich
        But in general, the level of provision of housing in 1913, the townspeople of the "people's" state reached only by ... 1960s

        No need to whistle, citizens are bakers. All of you are guided by the meager percentage of the elite — any: the workers, peasants, intelligentsia, the bourgeoisie. And the bulk of the people were in poverty. Nara for two in shifts - this was the level of the bulk of the workers in 1913. Even the condemned enemies of the people did not have such a bestial position in the Gulag.

        Quote: Olgovich
        PS especially the hypocritical look of the Stalin era flashy expensive interiors, with dancing fat cherubim children in bas-reliefs, their plump parents with vases, erected in the fasting 40s. Instead of one such, it was possible to build a CITY of ordinary five-story buildings.

        It’s especially deceitful to show a photo of the hall on the 1st floor of the main one in the country, one of a kind on 1/6 of the land, a university at Moscow State University, and talk about five-story buildings. Yes, the Soviet government didn’t consider people as pre-revolutionary and current. Public buildings were erected in a palace level, both in quality and in beauty. And most importantly - this was done not for 1% fattened on people's grief, but for everyone.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 11: 20
          -11
          Quote: McAr
          No need to whistle, citizens are bakers. All of you are guided by the meager percentage of the elite — any: the workers, peasants, intelligentsia, the bourgeoisie. And the bulk of the people were in poverty. Nara for two in shifts - this was the level of the bulk of the workers in 1913. Even the convicted enemies have such a bestial position people were not in the gulag.

          "We must, Fedya, we must!" (C) yes , peskokhrusty should drive themselves: the level of 1913 for food, clothing reached, barely by 1950 (report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955), on housing in citiesby 1960

          Which gulag, dear? fool
          This is "HOUSING" BY ANYONE UNDiscussed Hundreds of Thousands of Russians children women secured by your notpeople (thank God, long gone):. This is 1930, People's Commissar of the Interior of the RSFSR V.N. Tolmachev about exiled peasants:
          : The most fundamental and acute is the housing issue. People are housed in 750 huts, hastily concocted from poles. Unbelievable tightness, there are places where per person is 1 / sq. m of square during the construction of plank beds of several floors (cubic capacity is less than the grave). There are no floors in the huts, the roof is made of poles and lightly sprinkled with melting and crumbling earth. Temperature not higher than 4 °, as a rule. Lice. With bad nutrition, and for many with almost complete absence of it, all this creates colossal morbidity and the same mortality among children.

          At the onset of the full [spring] (second half of April, May) the earth in the huts melts (many stand on marshy soil), flows from above, and their entire population will stick together in a dirty, alive rotting lump.

          How do you like the "lump" of Russian people, are you satisfied?
          Quote: McAr
          It’s especially deceitful to show a photo of the hall on the 1st floor of the main one in the country, one of a kind on 1/6 of the land, a university at Moscow State University and talk about five-story buildings.

          You ignoramus don't know this is a hall "usual" residential building on Kotelnicheskaya embankment . And yes, instead of it it was possible to build a CITY of five-story buildings, especially in the 1940s, when half of the country sat in the dugouts. And such a hypocritical show-off, Feast in Time of Plague, it showed the attitude towards people, like a cattle.
          Quote: McAr
          Public buildings were erected in a palace level, both in quality and in beauty. And most importantly - this was not done for 1% fattened on people's grief, but for everything's.

          Yeah, FSE is for people lol :
          A significant number of apartments, especially in building A, received NKVD-MVD officials - department in charge of building construction
          . Natalya Davydova. High-rise on Kotelnicheskaya: anniversary with a personal elevator. // Izvestia, November 2, 2007.
          And of course "free" labor: in the museum about this house:
          the door platband is stored, on the inside of which there is an inscription: “Astakhov Ivan Emelyanovich Year of birth 1896 convicted by decree of 10 years he finished a high-rise building That's how we lived in the country”.

          "Camp Department No. 4" at the address Kotelnicheskaya embankment, 1/15, was created by order of June 22, 1948. The camp contained men and women. They lived in barracks and tents. According to the statement made by the head of the camp at the beginning of 1949, the planned capacity is 2200 people.

          "free labor in a free country for free people", yeah! yes

          Shame ....
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 17 December 2019 12: 02
            +6
            Quote: Olgovich
            People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the RSFSR V.N. Tolmachev about exiled peasants

            No need to whistle. This is not about peasants, but about world-eaters, rural moneylenders, then hoes. Although for you, citizens, bakers, Kushchevsky hoes are people. For you, 90% of Russians today are rubbish, to say the least.

            And don't jump like a flea on ... topics. Speech for housing, right? Well, and a flag in hand - that is, a book like K.A. Pajitnov, "The position of the working class in Russia". From there and quote - how the tsarist regime treated not convicts, but in general everyone. And then they took the fashion to compare the situation of criminals in the USSR with the position of 1% of the elite in Ingushetia.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 17 December 2019 12: 22
              -9
              Quote: McAr
              No need to whistle. This is not about peasants, but about world-eaters, rural moneylenders, then hoes.

              sandblasting must be driven into his forehead: we are talking about ordinary Russian CITIZENS countries: NO COURT did not condemn them! But sent MILLION CHILDREN! 80% of all deaths from exiled people-CHILDREN!
              Did it get there? No.

              PS A -Let you rob and send you? We think. you are a world-eater negative
              Quote: McAr
              And not you have to jump like a flea on ..... topics. Speech for housing, right? Well, and a flag in hand - that is, a book like K.A. Pajitnov, "The position of the working class in Russia". From there, quote - how the tsarist regime treated not convicts, but in general everyone. And then they took the fashion to compare the situation of criminals in the USSR with the position of 1% of the elite in Ingushetia.

              So do not go where there is no squirrel:
              Even the convicted enemies of the people did not have such a bestial position in the Gulag.

              Criminals are those who drove UNConvicted people into the earth.

              Ps what's wrong with the "Public Palace lol as ..houses on Koteln. promenade ignoramus? lol
              lost pathos?

              A feast during the plague was what it was with this and similar hypocritical construction projects.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Mcar
                Mcar 17 December 2019 16: 29
                +5
                Quote: Olgovich
                sand-crusts need to be driven into their forehead: we are talking about ordinary Russian CITIZENS of the country: NO COURT did not condemn them! But sent MILLION CHILDREN!

                Roll your Judas hypocritical pathos into a tube and shove yourself deeper into ... the bowels. Children, you see, he felt sorry for him, yeah. In tsarist Russia every year 5 million children did not live to be 7 years old and "NO COURT condemned them." Annually! 5 million! And not a single reigning individual scratched itself to fix it.

                The stupidity of others is amazing! In one sentence, call Russians “CITIZENS” and “Peskohrusta”, and do not even understand that by doing so he showed his true attitude towards people - this must be powerfully malnourished in childhood iodine.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 18 December 2019 00: 35
                  +4
                  Have you read, Alexander, an article by A.V. Oleinikova, where it is mentioned that the children who participated in the 1MB were given very good benefits, and then they began to doubt that relatives would not spend it like that, and would they take the children and benefits to special houses where the trustees would manage these incomes? And in the comments Olgovich hinted that he was embarrassed to say, well, a very high kind?
                  I remembered. You came later. Although maybe they read the article?
                  1. Mcar
                    Mcar 18 December 2019 00: 48
                    +4
                    No, Dmitry, I have not read such an article.
                    Found several articles by Alexey Oleinikov: https://warspot.ru/users/20-aleksey-oleynikov/published
                    If you tell me the name, be sure to read it.

                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    And in the comments Olgovich hinted that he was embarrassed to say, well, of a very high kind

                    This explains a lot. Since his ancestors 95% of people considered cattle, so he does not lag behind them.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 18 December 2019 00: 55
                      +4
                      I won’t search now, but I’ll find it today, Alexander. This article is here, but before your registration, I won’t say how much earlier
                      I am embarrassed to say, even of what kind of a high kind Olgovich positioned himself. I thought ---- I dare, but I can not.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 18 December 2019 09: 54
                  -5
                  Quote: McAr

                  Turn your Judin hypocritical pathos into a tube and shove yourself deeper into ... the bowels. Children, you see, he felt sorry for him, yeah. In tsarist Russia every year 5 million children did not live to be 7 years old and "NO COURT condemned them." Annually! 5 million! And not a single reigning individual scratched itself to fix it.

                  Liar and ignoramus: even in 1894 children ALL ages 2,7 million died-http: //www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0125/analit02.php

                  Infant mortality:

                  -in the BUILT "nogodnom" state, WITHOUT war in 1933: 300 people for a thousand births

                  -In Russia, even inabout the time of the WORLD WAR in 1915- 240 people for 1000 births.

                  Twenty years gone, and it got ..... worse ...

                  Disgrace wildest ....

                  And ONCE AGAIN: in Russia MILLION CHILDREN were NOT exiled to death, in frost, in a "rotting ball"! Hack on the nose with an ax to get through. yes
                  Now has it arrived or not again? Then again! yes
                  Quote: McAr
                  Stupidity others are striking! In one sentence, call Russians “CITIZENS” and “Peskohrusta”, and do not even understand that by doing so he showed his true attitude towards people - this must be powerfully malnourished in childhood iodine.

                  The "cleverness" of others (with leaky sand) - so generally leads to a stupor! belay

                  once again: individuals justifying nonhumans have no relation to CITIZENS. Like people.
                3. Alexander Suvorov
                  Alexander Suvorov 18 December 2019 10: 20
                  0
                  McAr (Alexander)
                  The stupidity of others is amazing! In one sentence, call Russians “CITIZENS” and “Peskohrusta”, and do not even understand that by doing so he showed his true attitude towards people - this must be powerfully malnourished in childhood iodine.
                  Well, what did you expect from olgovich? The Khrustobunik anti-Soviet, and therefore Russophobe! And there, the fascist is not far away, though his fascism is not only on the national grounds, but also on social status.
                  These were then policemen from the Germans who served.
      7. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 17 December 2019 09: 58
        +7
        And this happened precisely after 1953. The author ... "does not notice."

        Has the gin created the infrastructure for this construction at Trakh-Tibidoh?
        How many houses are being built there? Or a peak by 1956 from the air appeared?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 December 2019 11: 33
          -6
          Quote: VIK1711
          Has the gin created the infrastructure for this construction at Trakh-Tibidoh?
          How many houses are being built there? Or a peak by 1956 from the air appeared?

          Can you read? No.
          After the death of Stalin, crazy megastores were closed and many facilities were redirected to housing.
          The house is being built 1,2,3 years. It all fits together.

          What's not clear?
          1. Vikxnumx
            Vikxnumx 17 December 2019 13: 15
            +4
            A house-building plant ???
            Do you understand everything?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 18 December 2019 10: 01
              -3
              Quote: VIK1711
              A house-building plant ???
              Do you understand everything?

              FIRST - in 1961 built.
        2. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 17 December 2019 11: 50
          +3
          The panel "Khrushchev" was built for 45 days according to the standard. That is, 40 families could, after a month and a half of waiting, move from a dugout to a WARM apartment with gas, water and sewerage.
          1. Vikxnumx
            Vikxnumx 17 December 2019 13: 16
            -1
            Will you bring the norm?
            1. The leader of the Redskins
              The leader of the Redskins 17 December 2019 14: 45
              +3
              I cited the data I heard from a teacher at the institute. I didn't look for the documentation, but I googled it in the net and ... "10 interesting facts about the Khrushchevs":

              The Khrushchevs were built in a short time from ready-made blocks produced and prepared for installation at the house-building plant. On average, it took to erect one house on the spot - imagine! - about 12 days. There were also “Stakhanovites”: one Leningrad brigade set a record of 5 days.

              Newspapers happily reported about it. But the quality of housing, however, was modestly silent.
              1. Alf
                Alf 17 December 2019 21: 00
                +2
                Quote: Leader of the Redskins
                The Khrushchevs were built in a short time from ready-made blocks produced and prepared for installation at the house-building plant.

                Was this plant also built in 45 days? Have you done the project? And such a "trifle" as trailers for transporting slabs overnight were blinded in huge quantities?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 18 December 2019 10: 08
                  -2
                  Quote: Alf
                  Was this plant also built in 45 days? Have you done the project? And such a "trifle" as trailers for transporting slabs overnight were blinded in huge quantities?

                  The first DSC - 1961
                  The project is being completed in 1,2,3 months.
              2. Vikxnumx
                Vikxnumx 18 December 2019 09: 28
                +2
                Foundation pit, foundation, BOX ASSEMBLY, roof, electrics, window-doors, stucco-wallpaper, plumbing, heating, gas, all communications ...
                And how long does the whole box take there?
          2. Minato2020
            Minato2020 17 December 2019 16: 49
            +5
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            after a month and a half of expectations, to move from the dugout to a WARM apartment with gas, water and sewage.


            45 days for summing up, connecting communications?
            That is, a drainage system, a gas pipeline, an electric cable plus a transformer box without preliminary tests? ...

            It looks like a show.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 18 December 2019 10: 10
              -1
              Quote: Minato2020
              45 days for summing up, connecting communications?
              That is, a drainage system, a gas pipeline, an electric cable plus a transformer box without preliminary tests? ...

              It looks like a show.


              As a builder I’ll answer, it’s real.
          3. Fat
            Fat 18 December 2019 03: 41
            +2
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            The panel "Khrushchev" was built for 45 days according to the standard. That is, 40 families could, after a month and a half of waiting, move from a dugout to a WARM apartment with gas, water and sewerage.

            Not very warm. It was bad with the heat engineering of "enclosing structures". It is understandable, this is a new thing, they were wrong when designing, and therefore they heated the street. It is true about 45 days on panel houses, but a brick (keramblok) five-story building is being erected in these terms by a normal team, 2-3 days - a floor, and construction is cheaper, albeit not several times, but significantly. In the first days of my work in the project, the Institute instilled this in me, after the university, so that I would not rely too much on the almighty DSK

            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 18 December 2019 10: 11
              +1
              Quote: Thick
              Not very warm. It was bad with the heat engineering of "enclosing structures". It is understandable, it is a new thing, they were wrong when designing, and therefore they heated the street.

              then increased the thickness of the panels
    3. Obi-Wan Kenobi
      Obi-Wan Kenobi 17 December 2019 08: 05
      +4
      Until now, this grayness is shouting to us, in any way, it is still not possible to get rid of it, but it's a pity.

      If the house is in good condition, then why get rid of it?
      And where are the tenants? To the street? Or make everyone take a mortgage?
      Great offer!
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 09: 07
        -1
        The Khrushchevs were designed for 30 years of operation and had already exhausted their resources by the beginning of the 90s. The developer provides new apartments to residents of demolished houses.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 17 December 2019 12: 58
          +5
          Not all, just prefabricated series. It all depends on the project. Brick Khrushchev of a number of projects can be operated for 70-80 years with proper maintenance.
        2. Alf
          Alf 17 December 2019 21: 03
          +4
          Quote: AS Ivanov.
          The developer provides new apartments to residents of demolished houses.

          Yeah, he offers, damn knows where. In Samara, the main areas under construction are located outside the city. I will not go there from my Khrushchev’s place under execution.
      2. Alf
        Alf 17 December 2019 21: 02
        +5
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        Or make everyone take a mortgage?

        And today, on a box, one deputy has already offered people living in emergency housing to give a mortgage. True, I did not think why people from these hulups had not taken it before.
    4. Finches
      Finches 17 December 2019 08: 15
      +4
      Khrushchev, the forerunner of Gorby, but still "Khrushchev", for the sake of objectivity, I will attribute to his right deeds!
      1. Fat
        Fat 18 December 2019 04: 36
        -1
        Quote: Finches
        Khrushchev, the forerunner of Gorby, but still "Khrushchev", for the sake of objectivity, I will attribute to his right deeds!

        It's your right. But the construction of large-panel housing is one of those that is worse than a crime. We set up backyard shelters throughout the Union, enough for a generation. Now people are in trouble.
        1. Finches
          Finches 18 December 2019 15: 53
          +1
          If there weren’t these Khrushchevs, people would have much more problems now!
    5. knn54
      knn54 17 December 2019 20: 05
      +1
      Before the report on the personality cult, Khrushchev ran to the Mausoleum to feel the pulse of Stalin ..
      1. Alf
        Alf 17 December 2019 21: 09
        +5
        Quote: knn54
        Before the report on the personality cult, Khrushchev ran to the Mausoleum to feel the pulse of Stalin ..

    6. zenion
      zenion 18 December 2019 18: 23
      -1
      As the attacks on Khrushchev began, it was already in full swing, as in that saying - since such a booze went, cut the last cucumber!
  2. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 17 December 2019 05: 23
    -8
    In 1956, 3 million 460 thousand people (more than 6% of the total urban population) received new separate apartments (or houses) in the RSFSR, of which 2 million settled in high-rise Stalin's houses. So much nomenclature was not only in the RSFSR, but throughout the Union.
    and why do these games need numbers? this is not the number of apartments but the number of residents settled there. taking into account the norms of that time, squares per person, as in Moscow, for example, 7 squares residential, this is generally nothing. we remove all the blat and tears come out altogether. Now 70 million squares of housing per year are being built on average. despite the fact that you would be recognized as in need of better housing, you should have less than 12 squares per person. Well, that would be included in the youth building program, for example.
    1. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 17 December 2019 06: 13
      +5
      Dmitry! What are 12 squares! What a youth building! What nonsense are you talking about! Or are you a Muscovite?
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 17 December 2019 06: 59
        +2
        Well, if you consider that among the majority of acquaintances most of these programs took apartments for themselves, then let it be nonsense according to yours. and no. not a Muscovite. Khabarovsk
        The provision of social benefits to citizens during the construction of a mortgage is carried out as part of the decree of the Government of the Khabarovsk Territory of 20.08.2014 No. 284-pr (hereinafter the “decision”).
        In accordance with the decision to receive state support, citizens of the Russian Federation who live in the territory of Khab.Krai and need to improve their living conditions (the provision of housing for each family member is less than 18 square meters, living in residential premises on social hiring, commercial hiring). Social benefits are provided in the amount of 15% of the normative area of ​​the dwelling.
        To view the order, download the file.

        Participants in programs that received the basic social payment at the time of birth (adoption) of the child are provided with an additional social payment of 5% of the cost of purchased housing to repay part of the mortgage housing loan (loan), or spent their own funds.
        works for many years. they themselves wanted to receive with their first wife before moving but did not wait. In total, taking into account preferential prices, it turned out very profitable. I’m watching the footage is raised. I collected documents of 12 meters. Sber mortgage by the way also gives a youth program. it is cheaper than usual
        1. pmkemcity
          pmkemcity 17 December 2019 08: 50
          +1
          Excuse me. In Kemerovo, everything is different. He served in Vladik. My classmate, brigade commander, was renting an apartment after 25 years of service ....
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 17 December 2019 09: 02
            0
            It’s been working for us for the second ten years. Only new resolutions are issued that extend. there is also a city program there you can take an apartment on the secondary. There is a social network and for not married. there it is less profitable and wait longer but it is still profitable) but I don’t know about the classmate. it is strange that without housing, but perhaps he was up to something. maybe in another region wants to get or maybe there is an apartment and therefore do not give. if dynamite is very strange, then through the court this issue will be resolved in a few months. I don’t know here. there are many options.
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 17 December 2019 09: 07
              +2
              Now I will not say, I have not been to Vladivostok for a long time. But 10 years ago, he lived with his family in a rented, far from the most prestigious area. In "Tihas" - please. And I was offered at least a three-ruble note, at least a four-room apartment - go choose, drive out the "come in large numbers" and live! Tsigane and Chichen arranged self-grabbing, KECh was on the drum.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 17 December 2019 09: 10
                0
                so Tihas is Fokino and not Vladik) all the more so it is ZATO) I wouldn’t get an apartment there either) what then to do with it.
                1. pmkemcity
                  pmkemcity 17 December 2019 09: 58
                  +3
                  So they offered to go home for 140 km. 10 squadron then lodged there. We divided into two crews and served one week later. Two or three buses a day went. Imagine storming this "gas chamber". One of our officers spat and lived with his mother-in-law in Khabarovsk - 12 hours on the train, like a white man ... he slept off. Three of us carried the salary to the ship in the same bus, with 5-6 sports bags and one SPP (such an underwater pistol).
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 17 December 2019 10: 04
                    0
                    closed cities this is really a bunch of difficulties) for not receiving housing after leaving, he will have a bunch of options where to live later)
                    1. pmkemcity
                      pmkemcity 17 December 2019 10: 35
                      -1
                      In "my" years there was no closed city there. As the border zone was removed, so it began ... About living wherever you want later, Nekrasov said well:
                      The only pity is to live in this beautiful time
                      I do not have to - neither me nor you.
                      1. carstorm 11
                        carstorm 11 17 December 2019 11: 24
                        0
                        apparently it was a long time ago. he is closed since 1980. Fokino became since 1994
                      2. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 17 December 2019 11: 34
                        +3
                        Fokino, ZATO is a neoplasm. In the Soviet years, there was no such thing. It was Shkotovo-17, which included almost all settlements from Artem to Nakhodka. All "outsiders" were dropped off by border guards in Artyom or at the airport, or at the station. Coal. In the years 88-89, the bacchanalia began. In 1985, in my presence, the tsigans were traveling from somewhere from Irkutsk, in my opinion, taking 3 cars for free. At every station the police tried to land them - it was useless. But the border guards dropped everyone off at Ugolnaya. And so of course I'm talking about the years 86-99, then according to the stories of classmates.
                      3. carstorm 11
                        carstorm 11 17 December 2019 11: 34
                        0
                        so I wrote became since 1994 Fokino.
                      4. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 17 December 2019 12: 29
                        0
                        At 94 he was still an "open" education. That's right! They tried to force me to take a new oath. Said I swear once. Lagged behind.
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 17 December 2019 05: 25
    +1
    About the departed or not speak or ....
    So, specifically about this, no way with a minus !!!
    Only now those who followed him, too, almost did not fix anything ..... not that caliber, scale, compared to a comrade with a pipe !!!
    Our fish spoiled from the head, unfortunately.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 06: 12
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Only those who followed him, too, almost didn’t fix anything

      Who wanted, he corrected. Houses of improved layout, for example, our company began to build in the 70s.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 December 2019 07: 03
        +6
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Who wanted, he corrected.

        Under Khrushchev, the fundamental principles were changed both in the party program and in the state development program! What was laid down during the time of Stalin was completely thrown away .... and nobody, BASIC, then changed nothing.
        When everything is done according to a specific PLAN, no exceptions can fundamentally change anything!
        The country lived, was under construction, even managed to realize some mega projects !!! But in the end, where did we sail ???
        Most importantly - What is your PLAN, Mr. Fox ???
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 07: 24
          +6
          Quote: rocket757
          But in the end, where did we sail ???

          How to where? In capitalism. From a shortage of sausages and bananas, we came to a shortage of work in all areas and the gradual abolition of social programs.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 17 December 2019 08: 25
            +8
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            phasing out social programs

            The most important thing was taken away from citizens, I BELIEVE that it is THEIR state !!! Everything else, this is an appendix to the obvious, this state belongs to the fat clans, as it was before the October Revolution!
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 08: 32
              0
              Did you still believe in something in the 80s?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 17 December 2019 09: 08
                +8
                Quote: AU Ivanov.
                Did you still believe in something in the 80s?

                Since the late 70s, dissonance began to visit more and more! I traveled all over the country, and I had to go there ... however, education, probably this, never tried to keep pace with everyone.
                BUT, in general terms, the state still remained socially oriented and the conquests of the Soviet Government began to be erased much later.
                For the most part, we were not spoiled by any, different, but we nevertheless walked ALL TOGETHER !!! And this is a serious reason not to consider that it was bad, unacceptable .... something like that.
  4. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 17 December 2019 05: 51
    +2
    An article from the cycle "As under Stalin, everything was fine, and the rest is all shit."
    1. Minato2020
      Minato2020 17 December 2019 10: 37
      +8
      Quote: Pessimist22

      An article from the cycle "As under Stalin, everything was fine ...".


      Under Stalin, corrupt people, embezzlers, currency traders, pedophiles, drug addicts lived very poorly ...
      Why not remember something that will never happen again.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 17 December 2019 11: 00
        +4
        Quote: Minato2020
        ....... Under Stalin, corrupt people, embezzlers, currency traders, pedophiles, drug addicts lived very poorly ... Why not remember what will never happen again.
        Well yes! And some of the embezzlers, pedophiles even lived underground, at a depth of 2m and in wooden.
        1. Fat
          Fat 18 December 2019 04: 57
          +2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Quote: Minato2020
          ....... Under Stalin, corrupt people, embezzlers, currency traders, pedophiles, drug addicts lived very poorly ... Why not remember what will never happen again.
          Well yes! And some of the embezzlers, pedophiles even lived underground, at a depth of 2m and in wooden.

          That's right ... Nikita Sergeyevich came up with the death penalty for currency on a large scale - he introduced, you can also say, he provided housing.
  5. Gardamir
    Gardamir 17 December 2019 06: 01
    +8
    Khrushchev of course byak, but leave the Soviet Union alone. Do not like the Khrushchev, tell us about putinki from their 11 square meters.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 06: 17
      +2
      In-in, let Dima-carstorm express an opinion about these kennels.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 17 December 2019 08: 02
        +1
        which kennels? what are you talking about? what are 11 squares?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 08: 06
          +3
          Quote: carstorm 11
          which kennels? what are you talking about?

          And about the eleven-meter apartments in Moscow, with a total area. Did not hear?
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 17 December 2019 08: 09
            +3
            I heard. and about Tokyo capsule houses and about apartments 9 meters in Hong Kong) did not think why in Moscow then at least such options appeared and the main reason? I do not understand what Putin has to do with it?))) and by the way it’s not apartments, but studios and apartments)
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 08: 16
              +5
              Quote: carstorm 11
              and by the way, these are not apartments, but studios and apartments)

              Yes, at least call the palace of the padishah.

              What do you think, how many years Moscow, say, a cleaner on this will save up for a salary of 20 thousand?
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 17 December 2019 08: 25
                +3
                no idea. The last 5 years in the country a mortgage boom. give out trillions of money annually. people learned how to solve their housing difficulties. if now you start a song about apartments from the state as in the USSR, let me remind you that my family did not have such an apartment. and by the age of 40 I had already made an apartment for myself and now I am paying my mortgage to my eldest daughter so that it would be when the apartment grows up. then I’ll help the younger one.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 08: 40
                  +5
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  no idea.

                  And to count? Or is math tight?
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  I remind you that my family did not have such an apartment. and by the age of 40 I had already made an apartment for myself and now I am paying my mortgage to my eldest daughter so that it would be when the apartment grows up. then I’ll help the younger one.

                  Yeah, and poor citizens are no longer people, in your opinion. By the way, a classmate, the son of a school librarian (one of the lowest salaries in the USSR) studied with me so they were given a dope when he was in kindergarten. That's all, I don’t want to talk to you anymore, such as you just rowing into your pocket. Build housing for his workers for the modern capitalist, but he will sooner choke.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 17 December 2019 08: 42
                    +2
                    but they didn’t give us. and many many many others. such millions across the country were without housing. tens of millions. I don’t row in my pocket, but I earn with my labor. I pay taxes and have not stolen a penny in my life. if you think that I should be ashamed of it, I will say so-SHAZ !!!
                  2. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 09: 14
                    -1
                    By the way: they didn’t bother to give my grandmother and grandfather, veteran order-bearers, a separate apartment. Cooked in a communal apartment right up to the 55th anniversary of Victory.
                    1. chenia
                      chenia 17 December 2019 10: 55
                      0
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      By the way: my grandmother with my grandfather - veterans of the Order Bearers,


                      But then there are complaints to their parents about why they took away from their grandfather and grandmother the living space obtained by the preferential order.

                      And do not try to get out, I know these options (I am 65 years old and I know how this happened).
                      1. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 11: 10
                        -2
                        We all lived in this communal apartment, as much as possible. Then Dad gathered us and we went to live in Novgorod - in his homeland. Fortunately, there was a vacancy for him from the Ministry of Railways and an office apartment. And grandfather and grandmother lived in a communal apartment until in 2001 they were given odnushka, like veterans.
                      2. chenia
                        chenia 17 December 2019 15: 45
                        +3
                        Quote: AS Ivanov.
                        We all lived in this communal apartment, as much as possible.


                        Closer. As I understand. communal apartment "stalinka" or pre-revolutionary, apartments of a merchant of the first guild, and the grandfather as a veteran was an order-bearer in the post-war and received. At first there was a communal apartment for two families, and then it completely became your family living space (3-4 rooms, 25 m3 each, if not more). And there was no desire to leave. Grandfather, as a veteran, could easily get an apartment, but then they could hook you up.
                        And I don’t need to harness the difficulties of getting apartments by veterans, you had something else.
                      3. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 15: 55
                        -3
                        Are you serious? Yes, half of the veterans and blockades, even in the 80s lived in communal apartments, and I am writing about the 60s. It can be seen as the "light" Limit from the "correct" enterprise received living space faster than the defenders of the city. Well, then, when we dropped out, they didn't put mine on the line, the area per person did not allow, you see. True, in the apartment, besides them, there were 9 more families, and so nothing. Taking care of the person.
                      4. chenia
                        chenia 17 December 2019 16: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: AS Ivanov.
                        Yes, half of the veterans and blockades, even in the 80s lived in communal apartments, and I write about the 60s


                        I don’t know about the blockade, but you don’t have to carry a blizzard about veterans. From the council of veterans to the military registration and enlistment office, everyone would intervene (especially in 70-90), and tore the genitals to everyone in the city committee (I am silent about the executive committee and the housing office). Something you do not agree. They suggested, but the area is visible, without a view of the palace square.
                  3. Pedrodepackes
                    Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 09: 31
                    -1
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    By the way, a classmate, the son of a school librarian (one of the lowest salaries in the USSR) studied with me so they were given a dope when he was in kindergarten.

                    kopeck piece for two ??? Well, it's you, to put it mildly, lying. In the courtyard in our company, a guy was hanging out, the son of a loader-drunkard and a cleaner from the mine, so they had a small two-room apartment, the limit was at that time.
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    Yeah, and poor citizens are no longer people
                    The family of the deceased pilot of three people lived in the same kindergarten; three rooms each had families of miners, workers and military personnel of four. It's all in one house. Are you for such a leveling?
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 09: 52
                      +3
                      Quote: Pedrodepackes
                      Well, it's you, to put it mildly, lying.

                      You may not believe it, but our company built houses of improved layout, where there were no odnushki. And one drunk locksmith lived alone in a kopeck piece, I don’t remember how he managed to enter. Our director very well treated workers. My baht, for example, for a family of four, was given a four-room on 84 squares. True, this was the largest footage. Honestly, Thomas already got unbelievers. Our company built houses on its own, there was a construction team, carpentry made windows, plumbing pipes, and comparison with the pilot, who received an apartment from the state, where they built different DCSs, is inappropriate here. Not at all. Plumbing in our apartments was installed the most modern, at that time, it was the same with gas stoves, glued wallpaper, those that you bought yourself, to your taste, and so on.
                      1. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 10: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Our company built houses on its own

                        so what about
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Plumbing in our apartments was installed the most modern, at that time, the same thing was with gas stoves, glued wallpaper, those that you bought yourself, to your taste

                        I believe it may be so, but no one could get around the law on housing standards, even the cooperatives that people built for their own money were normalized, but cooperatives, even for garden houses, were standardized. Even if you don’t look at the fact that this is a lie, your company is far from the whole country, why did you write this fiction?
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        I studied with a classmate, the son of a school librarian (one of the lowest salaries in the USSR), so they were given a dope when he was in kindergarten
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        And one drunk locksmith lived alone in a kopeck piece, I don’t remember how he managed to enter. Our director very well treated workers.
                        And this director provided all the drunks and cleaners of schools in the city with two-room apartments? good laughing
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 10: 38
                        +2
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        why did you write this fiction?

                        Listen, what will I prove to you? I basically do not care if you believe me or not. And I don’t know anything about the standards, I was a kid when they gave us it, I didn’t give a damn about the standards.
                      3. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 14: 36
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        But I don’t know anything about the standards, I was a kid when they gave her to us

                        here I have the same garbage, in childhood, to eat sausages, I thought it was worth opening the refrigerator (though this meeting with the sausage didn’t always happen) But as I grew up, I realized that in order to get the sausage from the refrigerator, you first need to go shopping to run, or even to wave to Moscow. And then I’m a kid
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        spit from the high pillar was.
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 15: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        But how he grew up, I realized that in order to get the sausage out of the fridge, you first need to run around the shops, or even to wave to Moscow. And then I’m a kid

                        That you something a little late understood. Personally, I first rolled to Moscow without my parents at the age of 9. As the saying goes, people see, show themselves, and at the same time buy something. For 200 km with hook. Not one is naturally with a class and a teacher. For then it happened that I just went with friends just for a walk. By the way, I got my first salary at the same enterprise when I was 8 years old, they went there from school when they had a park, and they did something for them at school, too. I’ll call it fantasy, too. After all, they were school chefs in addition to us. And already from the age of seven, my mother taught me pies on her own. The horned hoofed animals also learned to twist tails and handle a shovel before. And I do not like squirrels. So I personally don’t need to tell how we lived, at least since the end of the 70s.
                      5. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 18: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        So I personally don’t need to tell how we lived, at least since the end of the 70s.

                        That is, with your long opus, you left the answer to the question of violation of housing standards. Okay, sir. lol Okay, but tell me, on what basis is this good your uncle the director so smartly managing the constructed apartments? After all, he built them not at his own expense, but at the city or regional budget (this, by the way,
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Build housing for his workers for the modern capitalist, but he will sooner choke.
                        it’s easy to be kind at someone’s expense) and the city distributed housing. I know for sure that 10% of the housing stock was given to the security forces.
                      6. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 19: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        Okay, but tell me, on what basis is this good your uncle the director so smartly managing the constructed apartments? After all, he built them not at his own expense, but at the city or regional budget (this, by the way,

                        Due to the plant, as I understand it. By the way, our good-natured uncle, the director, traveled all UAZ for life, and didn’t ride the Canaries, while other directors-directors from hundreds of people bought 600 geldings and Toyota. So do not crush the loaves here for a good person.
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        That is, with your long opus, you left the answer to the question of violation of housing standards.

                        And about the norms of what years do you write? They changed constantly. Google yourself, I'm too lazy to study SNiPs. Here, for example, from one:
                        The ratio of the types of apartments in terms of the number of rooms and area for specific regions and cities is determined by the local administration, taking into account demographic requirements, the achieved level of housing provision and resource supply of housing construction.

                        http://www.rusbani.ru/snip/2_08_01_89.html
                        All large enterprises were allowed to build housing for their employees at their own expense. At the same time, many factors were taken into account - the importance of the enterprise, the availability of its housing stock, the prospects for the development of enterprises, the need to attract additional workers, and so on.

                        https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html
                        Add that ours was of union significance?
                        Next, SNiPs themselves study, can be managed in a month or two. There were many loopholes. Moreover, it is quite legal. And if some leader spits on the problems of his workers, then he is worthless.
                      7. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 21: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        By the way, our good-natured uncle, the director, traveled all UAZ for life, and didn’t ride the Canaries, while other directors-directors from hundreds of people bought 600 geldings and Toyota.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        By the way, a classmate, the son of a school librarian (one of the lowest salaries in the USSR) studied with me so they were given a dope when he was in kindergarten.

                        and SNiP to me the hectic of 1990, who died with the collapse of the USSR and immediately write that
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        So I personally don’t need to tell how we lived, at least since the end of the 70s.

                        something in dates got lost, you are our Andersen. And again, the plant is this
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        kind uncle-director
                        only managed, and was not his property, so this kindness, the pure pragmatism of those days, and not out of pocket.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Add that ours was of union significance?
                        this is generally niach, since many industries in the USSR were subsidized, especially of all-Union significance, after the collapse of the USSR, many enterprises bent as soon as the subsidies ended.
                      8. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 22: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        and SNiP to me the hectic of 1990, who died with the collapse of the USSR and immediately write that

                        Heh, you don’t even remember what year the USSR ordered to live long. Once again. I'm not going to shovel for you all the SNiPs that were in the USSR. And even more so I won’t run into the city archive, to find which ones we had. Themselves, all by yourself. Where I live, you know.
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        after the collapse of the USSR, many enterprises bent as soon as the subsidies ended.

                        Yes, yes, only now our bent over six years ago, because it was completely imprisoned for another, which also covered.
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        this kindness, the pure pragmatism of those days, and not out of pocket.

                        No pragmatism. All our directors did not sit on the priest exactly as they are sitting now, and the latter had a lot of opportunities to grab.
                      9. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 18 December 2019 08: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Heh, you don’t even remember what year the USSR ordered to live long.

                        well, of course, the best defense is an attack, just off topic. I do not see any contradiction in the fact that the SNiP of 1990 died the following year, or maybe you yourself forgot this date?
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        I'm not going to shovel for you all the SNiPs that were in the USSR.

                        however, you have cited links to SNiPs, and if you bring them, take the trouble to provide reliable data. And it turns out that you are the next Mr. Tro-lo-lo.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Where I live, you know.

                        why, I didn’t lapat your dossier.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        No pragmatism.

                        pragmatism here is pure water - to tie a person to a place of work, giving him housing and providing a social room. By the way, even now these methods are practiced: accommodation, meals, corporate transport, VHI, etc.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        the latter had a bunch of opportunities to grab.

                        yeah, well, with OBHSS in the USSR did not doze off. Okay, let’s leave these tales on your conscience. hi
                      10. Alf
                        Alf 17 December 2019 21: 15
                        +4
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        you must first run around the shops, and even to wave to Moscow.

                        And now you just open the refrigerator and stand, like a donkey before a choice, which of the 10 varieties of sausage to choose. But for some reason, for all one hundred varieties of sausage, the composition is the same, the whole periodic table ...
                      11. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 18 December 2019 08: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Alf
                        for some reason, all one hundred varieties of sausage have the same composition, the entire periodic table ...

                        Well, I understand that you prefer sodium caseinate, but I prefer to buy meat sausage. In general, tie with sausages, because there is a lot of salt and preservatives there and it does not matter in the USSR it was made or in the Russian Federation.
                      12. Alf
                        Alf 18 December 2019 18: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        only I prefer to buy meat sausage.

                        And who told you that it is there? Do not bring the price as evidence, now the price is not an indicator of quality, but the seller’s greed.
                      13. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 18 December 2019 21: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: Alf
                        And who told you that it is there?

                        Probably the ones who tell you that in Soviet meat was laughing But seriously, from the height of the past years, I learned to understand. By the way, a priori cheap sausage is not made from ground beef and pork.
                      14. karabass
                        karabass 18 December 2019 18: 08
                        -1
                        Could you write what your company was called, so that other people could check?
                      15. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 18 December 2019 18: 44
                        -1
                        In PM, I can, but for the whole world I will not.
                      16. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 18 December 2019 21: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        In PM I can

                        then to me too.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        for the whole world I will not

                        tales to the whole world can be told, but the source really? Weird what
                      17. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 18 December 2019 23: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        then to me too.

                        Yeah, tell the whole world and show the apartment number. Get along.
                    2. Octopus
                      Octopus 17 December 2019 10: 59
                      +8
                      Quote: Pedrodepackes
                      kopeck piece for two ??? Well, you are, to put it mildly, lying

                      No. My family has the same topic, but, firstly, my mother worked in this very trust that was building the house, and not a librarian, and secondly, there was some story with the registration of our grandmother, who seems to be from I didn’t leave my village.

                      So it is exaggerated here that the equality that was under the Soviet regime. They didn’t give Bentley to the girls, but they lived very different ways.
                      1. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 17 December 2019 14: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Octopus
                        No. My family has the same topic.

                        not quite the same as it turned out
                        Quote: Octopus
                        mother worked in this very trust

                        Quote: Octopus
                        and not a librarian

                        Quote: Octopus
                        there was some story with the registration of our grandmother

                        i.e., it turns out. that is not for two, legally and not a cleaner with a young son, who had nothing to do with building a house.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        So it is exaggerated here that the equality that was under the Soviet regime ..... they lived very different ways.
                        well, those who know how to live are not like everyone has been at all times, but it's about the total mass of people.
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 15: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        which had nothing to do with building a house.

                        The enterprise was our school bosses, they built that house, like the school, and could afford something.
                      3. Octopus
                        Octopus 17 December 2019 18: 10
                        +6
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        legally and not a cleaner with her young son, who had nothing to do with building a house.

                        )))
                        Features of the Soviet system - figs you will understand who is related to whom and to what. And who is whose infant son, how many years have passed, and Malakhov still finds out
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        but it’s about the total mass of people.

                        In Soviet times, there was no general mass. Now everyone has their own wallet, but then everyone has their own cronies, of different sizes, like now. And then it pissed people off too. Yeltsin came under the slogan "fight against privileges", it turned out very ironic.
              2. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 08: 34
                +2
                A Moscow cleaning lady will leave to live in her Uzbekistan. Living in Moscow and earning less than 60-70 thousand is a hard work to do. Well, or not to have no hands or brains.
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 17 December 2019 08: 40
                  +4
                  there you will earn more by ordinary courier. or a taxi driver. yes by anyone.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 17 December 2019 09: 34
                    +6
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    there you will earn more by ordinary courier

                    That was a shame right now.

                    There are a lot of people who get 30-50 in Moscow. We can say that they themselves are to blame, of course, but fact is a fact. At the same time, the indigenous Muscovites (who do not need to rent an apartment or pay a mortgage) live on this money relatively normal.
                    1. carstorm 11
                      carstorm 11 17 December 2019 09: 36
                      0
                      if so then I apologize) I relate to this easier.
                    2. AU Ivanov.
                      AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 10: 50
                      -2
                      So it is. A student on a bicycle delivering food from Yandex has about 70. In St. Petersburg, not in Moscow. And on moped - even more.
                    3. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 17 December 2019 10: 52
                      +3
                      Quote: Octopus
                      Quote: carstorm 11
                      there you will earn more by ordinary courier

                      Right now it was a shame. There are a lot of people who get 30-50 in Moscow. We can say that they themselves are to blame, of course, but the fact is the fact .......

                      When the first homeless people appeared, there were also words ----- themselves to blame.
                      However, many do not think that the system is always stronger than a single person.
                      Therefore, what happens ---- happens within the system. am am
                      Deceived equity holders including
                      1. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 11: 21
                        -6
                        If a person swells his living space or gets involved in a dubious scam, who is to blame? Who is to blame for the fact that people forgot about the truth about free cheese and that kroilovo leads to a popalov, decided to buy an apartment at the zero-cycle stage and threw them naturally? Who is to blame for the fact that some are trying to carry out transactions without even the slightest legal knowledge and do not involve specialists for consultation and support? Evil Buratins themselves, don't they?
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 17 December 2019 11: 47
                        +5
                        See who advertises companies that drop people? they have licenses.
                        The current trend ---- sorry, bro, it didn’t work out ... request .This is a trend in all areas. Did not notice?
                      3. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 11: 52
                        -5
                        Do you believe advertising? I feel sorry for you. Now, in the era of the Internet, it is not difficult to verify the reliability of a particular developer. And low price is the first reason to think, and not run headlong to close a deal. Low price, high interest on deposit is the first sign that everything is not clean here.
                      4. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 17 December 2019 11: 59
                        +3
                        I'm writing ---- look. Are you a telepath or something you know what I believe in? And if you looked ---- you would see an interesting pattern confirming that the system is stronger. I met interest holders who were deceived, whose transactions went through a variety of checks along with escort and consultants ........
                      5. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 12: 06
                        -3
                        In general, shared construction is a rather risky enterprise. But if you decide to play roulette, ask: do insurance companies agree to insure your risks. And for what amount. At the same time, find out about the reputation of the developer.
                      6. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 18 December 2019 00: 48
                        +2
                        Quote: AU Ivanov.
                        In general, shared construction is a rather risky enterprise. But if you decide to play roulette, ask: do insurance companies agree to insure your risks. And for what amount. At the same time, find out about the reputation of the developer.

                        Well, what kind of water and idle talk for the sake of the desire to show oneself ????? How many comments. For what? After all, writing 3 letters is simple ---mmm. And it’s difficult and costly to obtain the status of a defrauded equity holder. And there are a lot of defrauded ones, but without a status, what would you know. And these processes are within the framework of the current system.
                      7. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 20 December 2019 17: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        See who advertises companies that drop people? they have licenses.
                        The current trend ---- sorry, bro, it didn’t work out ... request .This is a trend in all areas. Did not notice?
                        or so ---- well bro, you hit!
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 17 December 2019 08: 46
                  +3
                  Quote: AS Ivanov.
                  A Moscow cleaning lady will leave to live in her Uzbekistan. Living in Moscow and earning less than 60-70 thousand is a hard work to do. Well, or not to have no hands or brains.

                  In, one more. sad With brains, but without a conscience, I guess. You both bothered me, in short.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 17 December 2019 09: 07
                    +3
                    what does conscience have to do with it?))) I should be ashamed of what exactly? for the fact that I am not a cleaner?) I am an employee. I get a salary. and I should be ashamed) fucking fucking)))
                3. Freeman
                  Freeman 17 December 2019 09: 50
                  +7
                  Quote: AU Ivanov.
                  A Moscow cleaning lady will leave to live in her Uzbekistan. Living in Moscow and earning less than 60-70 thousand is a hard work to do. Well, or not to have no hands or brains.

                  crying "I have no hands or brains." Milling machine, CNC, 5th grade, Muscovite, not "Muscovite", "UEC" - wp 45-50 sput. "dirty".
                  Shl. - Sobyanin! Where is my iPhone ?! am / sarcasm /
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 10: 24
                    -4
                    Well, look for a job with a higher salary. You have qualifications, a specialty for the present times is acute. At the UEC, the light did not converge.
                    1. Freeman
                      Freeman 17 December 2019 10: 53
                      +6
                      Quote: AU Ivanov.
                      Well, look for a job with a higher salary. You have qualifications, a specialty for the present times is acute. At the UEC, the light did not converge.

                      Prom. production from Moscow is gradually being transferred to the region. My plant is one of the last big ones. Due to the fact that the defense industry, wp even more or less. In other "places" - "even sadder." Well, or work "overtime" 12 hours / 6 days. (many, and "plow").
                  2. Engineer
                    Engineer 17 December 2019 10: 26
                    +4
                    It’s just tin. Three or four years ago, I would not have believed such a thing. But the manufacturing industry in Moscow is drying up before our eyes, unfortunately.
                4. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 17 December 2019 17: 35
                  +1
                  30% of Moscow residents can have such salaries and the rest have less than 45000.
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 17: 54
                    0
                    At the same time, migrant workers earn more than many Muscovites. As in St. Petersburg, however: try hiring gastritis for a salary less than 30-35. You will be looking for a long time.
              3. Fat
                Fat 18 December 2019 05: 45
                0
                Quote: mordvin xnumx

                Yes, at least call the palace of the padishah.

                What do you think, how many years Moscow, say, a cleaner on this will save up for a salary of 20 thousand?

                In Kostroma there is a microdistrict "Venice" called, such housing was built there, I went there. Impression? "The Pumpkin House is to be destroyed" This is built as a social .. Nobody in their right mind will buy
                Where did you meet a cleaner in Moscow with a rate of 850 r per day? Given the cost of transport and food, such a cleaner on Chinese shoes for the winter of three years will save.
                Are cleaning companies in trend in Moscow now? No? There are more than 20K pay unequivocally.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 18 December 2019 07: 41
                  -1
                  Quote: Thick
                  Where did you meet a cleaner in Moscow with a rate of 850 r per day?

                  Saw, imagine. She is from our Tula region. Russian, if that.
                  Quote: Thick
                  Given the cost of transport

                  There is no transport. Where he works, he lives there. And she is not the only one. A friend worked at a warehouse in security that year (40 thousand per month), and lived in the closet there.
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 17 December 2019 10: 33
      -1
      Yes, stop it already! You really got it ... if your diarrhea is Putin's fault too? Now the state itself doesn’t build housing .. builds a private trader .. if there is a demand for it, then they build .. You look in which kennels in Japan or China they live there ... in the same Europe ... well, really, an adult man, but Putin is to blame for everything
  6. Kirill Dou
    Kirill Dou 17 December 2019 06: 35
    -3
    And this is the same Samsonov who composes sagas about the "superethnos of the Rus"?) And then everything is clear.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 17 December 2019 11: 51
      -1
      Buy today's Komsomol member, an interesting article about ethnic groups.
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 17 December 2019 07: 16
    +9
    Quote: Pessimist22
    An article from the cycle "As under Stalin, everything was fine, and the rest is all shit."

    And under Stalin, the country constantly had to get out of ruin, misfortune, under the serious threat of an attack from outside !!!
    If after the revolution, it can be partially recognized that the Bolsheviks took part in the destruction .... comrade the second stage of the destruction of the Second World War, these are external factors!
    Objectively - under Stalin there was no oil, no oil, but the country was developing at an accelerated pace !!! Without external support / help! And more precisely, in spite of serious external pressure.
    In the period after Stalin, ALWAYS, the country experienced external pressure, but .... but here it is already necessary to carefully look at who it turned out \ turns out.
  8. Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 17 December 2019 07: 47
    +8
    I will give two graphs of housing commissioning and housing sales in the RSFSR and the Russian Federation.
    It should be borne in mind that the unprecedented growth of construction in the early 50s was associated with the post-war devastation, the entire European part lay in ruins.
    The growth of construction in the Russian Federation since the beginning of the 90st century partially compensates for the complete failure of construction in the "dashing XNUMXs", firstly, and secondly, this growth in construction is associated with the complete absence of the creation of new plants, if there was a comparable commissioning of industrial enterprises, then one would not have to talk about any growth in residential premises at such a pace.
    Plus, there is practically no commissioning of new utility networks, as is the case with “renovation”, when a 5-story building is being erected on the site of the 20-story building.
    Outside the brackets, we leave the expediency of creating such Gotham city

    .
    Source: Grazhdankin A.I. Kara-Murza S.G. White paper of industry and construction in Russia 1950-2014. M., 2016.S. 177.
  9. kosovvskiy
    kosovvskiy 17 December 2019 08: 20
    +7
    Regarding the volume of housing construction in the early 50s, a little-studied issue is the construction of residential buildings by the Germans at the expense of reparations. In the workers' villages near Moscow, for example, Dzerzhinsky, entire areas consist of such houses, many of them in Moscow, for example, on ul. Dmitry Ulyanov.

    Prefabricated house kits for individual houses were also delivered from Germany and Finland.
    1. Moskovit
      Moskovit 17 December 2019 09: 22
      +2
      A lot of houses were built by captured Germans and in the Far East by captured Japanese. My grandmother in the Novosibirsk region lived in this. Still worth it. He rotted through and through. But reinforced with a steel frame and voila, live on.
  10. anjey
    anjey 17 December 2019 09: 28
    +3
    The factual information completely refutes the legend of mass housing construction in the Khrushchev era
    More precisely, the era of Khrushchev-Brezhnev was an era of construction, it is easier to take and count the number of "Khrushchevs" in an average city in relation to another housing stock, Khrushchev is far away for me, but closer to me is Gorbachev, who with his demogogy reached the point that by 2000 he publicly promised each family has a separate apartment, which in reality everyone knows.
    So, while still alive, this state criminal can be condemned now and not likened to the subsequent throwing of dirt after death, like Khrushchev.
  11. Slavutich
    Slavutich 17 December 2019 09: 30
    -2
    Good article on business, thanks!
  12. Engineer
    Engineer 17 December 2019 10: 32
    0
    The most odious author VO poured slop Khrushchev. So there are definitely things for which Nikita needs to say thanks. laughing In general, five minutes of hatred for Khrushchev At VO resemble those of Stalin among the liberals. It’s necessary to come back more often, in the morning it is valuable to raise the mood)
  13. depressant
    depressant 17 December 2019 11: 07
    +5
    I remember the only short episode from some very funny Georgian comedy. A young architect comes to a big Tbilisi boss with a Khrushchev project. The boss takes the plan in hand and in confusion begins to turn it upside down, then back, it turns out the same thing. Not understanding how to consider it, it is, whatever one may say, the same from all sides, the boss raises a surprised look at the young man, and he arrogantly and arrogantly shows: like this, obviously, focusing on the specification at the bottom of the plan.
    In general, the meaning: common people, know your place. Where are you and where are the "architectural excesses"! For you, common people, it will do.
  14. MoJloT
    MoJloT 17 December 2019 11: 24
    +11
    However, if you study the documents of the Soviet era - statistical collections of the "National Economy of the RSFSR"
    I don’t know how and what the author studied there, but since 55, for nine years 55 million citizens have moved to Khrushchevka across the country, this is 1/4 of the population, they have changed basements, barracks, shelters, dugouts for their own housing and for the most part !!! Such a fast pace of construction, even taking into account the much-changed technologies, Russia will not achieve what kind of renovation is there in a single city, I am silent about prices generally!
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 11: 40
      0
      The concept and technology for the construction of prefabricated houses was developed under Stalin. Khrushchev took advantage of ready-made developments.
      1. MoJloT
        MoJloT 17 December 2019 11: 48
        +3
        The concept and technology for the construction of prefabricated houses was developed under Stalin.
        The construction of prefabricated "Khrushchevs" began in France at the end of the 19th century, and the mass building itself began in the 18th century in Great Britain, with the advent of the industrial revolution.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 17 December 2019 12: 19
      +2
      Khrushchev took mass building in Italy as an example after the war, when the governments of the socialist-communists were formed there.
      In general, in England, the Laborites began to build cheap houses milking the workers (but in the form of small serial private houses). And in bombed Germany there was massive cheap construction.
      1. MoJloT
        MoJloT 17 December 2019 13: 31
        +4
        Everything mixed up people, horses, Labor ...) They were not at the beginning of modern
        mass building.
        but in the form of small serial private houses
        And in the Middle Ages and even more so.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 17 December 2019 13: 44
          +2
          I actually read a detailed article in English about post-war construction in England.
          And even happened to live for several days in such a narrow 2-story house in Sheffield.
          And last summer I rented an apartment in a standard municipal 3-story building in Sweden. This is an interesting topic. drinks
          1. MoJloT
            MoJloT 17 December 2019 13: 50
            +3
            I actually read a detailed article in English about post-war construction in England.
            And even had a chance to live a few days in such a narrow 2-storey house in Sheffield
            I willingly believe that I also know how to read.



            In 1877, mass development was in full swing long ago, it became possible thanks to the industrial revolution, the first appeared on clay quarry sites, thanks to changes in technology, it became possible to produce building materials in large quantities almost at the construction site, I'm sorry I don’t remember the name of the architect, Google as they say ...
            The Labor Party was founded in 1900.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 17 December 2019 13: 58
              +2
              I do not see any contradictions.
              They built it before the Labor Party, of course.
              In St. Petersburg, mass development was in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Long before Khrushchev.
              And then for a long time they built either beautiful Stalin's houses (I was born in this), or barracks for workers (my childhood friends in the country lived in this - I perfectly remember the corridor and the row of doors in the room).
              1. MoJloT
                MoJloT 17 December 2019 14: 28
                0
                I do not see any contradictions.
                drinks
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 17 December 2019 14: 53
                +1
                It would be interesting to know where houses for workers were built before the revolution. You have to read ...... where is the Baltiyskaya, Narvskaya metro now ...... ???? On Narva, for sure. Workers lived on the Vyborg side ..... on Okhta ...... on the Petrograd side to Krestovsky, Petrovsky ..... But it’s more like barracks or some houses where the floor is --- boards ... where the ceilings are low. Then before the revolution there were no toilets in such houses
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 17: 50
                  -1
                  It depends on where. Beyond the Nevskaya Zastava, workers lived mainly in the private sector. On Okhta there was also an individual building, as well as behind the Narva outpost. The rest rented housing in apartment buildings. And barracks are a Soviet invention.
  15. EvilLion
    EvilLion 17 December 2019 11: 26
    +1
    In general, this is just a fragment of the article "Khrushchev. No benefit but harm", which has been for many years.
    For example, https://www.nakanune.ru/articles/17756/
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 17 December 2019 12: 15
    0
    Another article in the series "falsification of Russian and Soviet history."
    As the economic situation in Russia worsens, the neo-Stalinists are increasingly active, and they have ideologists. Not only on this site, this is a widespread trend.
    1. apro
      apro 17 December 2019 12: 28
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      As the economic situation worsens in Russia

      Warrior and who worsens this situation? Do not share the innermost?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 17 December 2019 12: 31
        -1
        Ineffective, non-innovative, raw model of the economy + sanctions.
        1. apro
          apro 17 December 2019 12: 36
          +1
          Well, thank God that it’s not a government ...
          1. Star Destroyer
            Star Destroyer 18 December 2019 00: 45
            0
            And what about the government? They are the same hired executors as police officers, prosecutors, deputies, judges, military, state bankers.
            They are ordered to steal in exchange for fidelity - they do it.
            What can be the demand from them? Responsibility is ALWAYS proportional to power. It’s another matter that there is no one to answer to the authorities, the people are not even trying to ask, because the tsar is a deity (as they said on TV and the priest confirmed in the church that they will not lie), so it’s much more convenient to blame bad boyars, the government or the Illuminati in general.
    2. depressant
      depressant 17 December 2019 13: 26
      +9
      Voyaka uh, you correctly noted the trend, and it is noted by all political scientists and even psychologists. It is connected with the fact that the mentality of the people cannot be changed with a simple announcement "Ambets, guys! Yesterday we had socialism, and today we had capitalism, so let's get on with it!"
      Excuse me, what are you doing? Where is he, capitalism polished for centuries? Looked around - but no it! And how to live in that which is not? It turned out that everything is simple. Part of the Politburo, the Central Committee of the CPSU and the ministers seized upon the same wealth of the people and began to munch on, champing and without regard to the country. And that was the only change in living conditions. What they planted yesterday, today is possible. Ordinary people took this phenomenon not as capitalism, but as a violation of the norms of socialist legality, and, not taught from childhood to live in such a strange change, who do not want to put up with crime on a national scale, naturally, continue to live in socialist concepts of good and evil. Still. Even those who were born not only after the 91st year, but also in 2000. Generations
      - communicate with each other!
      Therefore, all political scientists unanimously say that 95% of the population of the Russian Federation are Soviet people. Brains do not rebuild so quickly - centuries are needed! And those who wanted to take a break at the expense of the country in the 91st did not understand that this would happen, did not foresee. They decided that everything will settle down itself, and now they are confused - well, Western-style capitalism is not built, even though you crack! No one is being built. Nothing is being built at all!
      Not only that! Only 32% of our rich agree to live in capitalism, and 34% of them are ready to return to socialism. By the way, some rich people agree to fascism, and 5% are ready to become slaveholders. What, huh?
      As for the rest of the population, I repeat, we are all Soviet. And in Soviet times, the most productive statesmen were I.V. Stalin and, of course, L.P. Beria.
      So, everything is simple.
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 December 2019 15: 59
        +4
        So I also made a mistake, my memory failed. Here is the exact layout on the regnum of December 9th. People who consider themselves to be in the higher social stratum are ready to live:
        - in socialism 42%
        - in democracy 34%
        - with fascism 6%
        - under capitalism 5% !!!
        - in feudalism 4%
        - to be slaveholders of 5%.

        Such are the cases.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 17 December 2019 20: 21
          +4
          Quote: depressant
          Here is the exact layout on the regnum of December 9th.

          And what, are there sane people on the regnum?
          Quote: depressant
          - with fascism 6%
          - under capitalism 5%

          Which do not distinguish between economic and political regimes?

          Let them live on under socialism, happiness to them, health, good mood.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 17 December 2019 14: 43
      +3
      When, in the last century, the party nomenclature wanted to appropriate state property, they began to praise life in the countries in different ways and harass the USSR, while a shortage of goods and services was created, which everyone knows then.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      ..... As the economic situation in Russia worsens, the neo-Stalinists are increasingly active, and they have ideologists. Not only on this site, this is a widespread trend.
      But the economic situation is not deteriorating on its own and not under the influence of Nibiru, but as a result of the reforms of the 90s and the actions of the capitalist nomenclature today.
  17. slasha
    slasha 17 December 2019 12: 19
    +5
    True article! Khrushchev - the first and main destroyer of the USSR.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 17 December 2019 20: 24
      +4
      Quote: slasha
      Khrushchev - the first and main destroyer of the USSR.

      You are absolutely right. Kim's faithful Stalinists puffed themselves until 2020, and for a long time, it seems, puffed.
  18. Kapitan
    Kapitan 17 December 2019 16: 51
    +3
    Samsonov Alexander, have you ever lived, well, maybe you went in or saw a hut in the picture? No? It seems to me that no.
  19. Tests
    Tests 17 December 2019 22: 46
    +5
    Dear commentators of "Military Review", I do not know how many of you will read my comment, often the first 10-20 comments are read on the site, some visitors enter 1-2 sections daily, the rest are not interesting to them, BUT I wanted to read this comment as soon as possible more visitors.
    During the time that I was registered on the site, I got the impression, maybe mistakenly, that we are all, I am no exception, so don't kick me too much, we forget a few things. 1. Although our country is a former USSR, it is very small, according to the law of 6 handshakes we will find acquaintances, we very often forget that the country lived in different ways, even in neighboring regions. Example - Moscow and Moscow region, St. Petersburg and Leningrad region, Moscow region and Ryazan region, etc. etc. 2. Within the framework of one region, people lived in very different ways: Murmansk and Gremikha, Gremikha and Kirovsk, Gremikha and Chapoma, Chapoma and Chavonga, Vyborg and Vsevolozhsk, Volosovo and Tikhvin, etc. etc. 3. In the same settlement, everyone lived in different ways, even according to the same specialty at different enterprises: at Sevmash, where the nuclear submarine was made, the salary was 10-15% more than at Zvyozdochka, where the nuclear submarine was repaired, at Zvezdochka more by 10 15% than at Sevdormash, where they made auger and milling snow blowers that cleaned all the snow on the airfields of the USSR, Afghanistan, and also a NATO member - Turkey. Sevmash built the most housing enterprises in Severodvinsk, and it had the most kindergartens and nurseries, and had its own pioneer camps both in the Arkhangelsk region and in the Crimea, a little later there was a sanatorium in Sochi, and there were more workshop dachas in the forests of the city. than all the enterprises of the city, and the clinic - more than anyone else, and the stadium - more than anyone else with an athletics arena under the tribune, and gyms - 2, its own pool, its own team in hockey - "North", and besides the DK im. The Leninist Komsomol had a DITR (House of Engineering and Technical Workers), its own library, almost 2 children's clubs. 4. If we remember our common past, let's measure everything, as in the USSR - five-year terms. In 1986, in the capital of the Estonian SSR, Tallinn, there was no division of goods in the store. And in 1988 it was by registration: for Tallinn, for Tallinn and the Harju region, for the Estonian SSR, for everyone without a passport. And in 1991, in Tallinn, coupons were one sheet: both food and manufactured goods. And in Severodvinsk they are multi-colored: for butter, for meat, for sausages. True, from the factory canteens they carried milk and semi-finished meat products for coupons for harm, and there were no hungry people in Severodvinsk. And in 1996 they did not pay salaries for six months. My brother-in-law, after studying in St. Petersburg, launched the nuclear submarine "Tomsk", working on the "Arctic", then received 100 rubles. once every 000-2 weeks, then 3 rubles, he spat, and with his young wife and one-year-old daughter went to the apartment of his father-in-law and mother-in-law in St. Petersburg, got a job in Lenenergo.
    If we all will compare something at a certain time under the same conditions, I really hope that the degree of our emotions will decrease a little, we will hear each other faster, understand each other faster, and the administrators will have a little less work.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 17 December 2019 23: 55
      0
      I agree with your comment!
  20. Star Destroyer
    Star Destroyer 18 December 2019 00: 51
    -6
    Spanish shame.
    Russian history has not tolerated such mockery of itself for a long time.
    Half of the country still lives in Khrushchev, 5-storey panel buildings are far from standards of high-quality housing, but even in this form, housing is much better than Stalin's barracks with communal apartments.
    “Destroyer of the USSR” because it unscrewed the totalitarian nuts ... so should people regret the collapse of the country, which turned out to be unviable without repression and genocide?
    1. Boris Kotov
      Boris Kotov 18 December 2019 03: 34
      +7
      You have strange ideas about the USSR. What genocide? In 1952 there was a normal natural population growth, a meager consumption of cigarettes and alcohol, infant mortality declined, and life expectancy increased. About 1947 thousand people were sentenced to death in 1953-6 for nearly 200 million inhabitants. In the 5th five-year period, the economy grew at a brisk pace, there were no coupons and shortages, the gold reserve beat records. Nikita ruined everything: economics, finance, education, foreign policy, ideology, even normal architecture. In 1959, the era of stalans ended and the city was built up with boxes for 30 years. Actually, from the turn of the 1950s-1960s, the USSR turned into a country crippled, which somehow survived until 1991.
      Z.Y. Under Khrushchev, a tale appeared about 600 thousand death sentences for 1920-1953. it is obvious that the figure was overestimated every five times since there the initial date = the end of the civil war, in 1920-1922 there were also enough ordinary combat losses.
  21. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 18 December 2019 01: 41
    +1
    The fact that Khrushchev was an enemy of the people and the state was clear even during the Second World War and that he was not shot, along with Mehlis and the like, the fault of the then leadership
  22. Boris Kotov
    Boris Kotov 18 December 2019 03: 30
    +3
    Khrushchev is one of the worst rulers in our history. He ruined everything: ideology, foreign policy, economics, education, personnel work, finances, began to eat up the gold reserve ... Most of the achievements of his period had nothing to do with Nikita (space flight). In reality, he killed the normal growth of the economy and the Khrushchev USSR 1961-1991 was a crippled country. Therefore, they could not catch up not only with the USA, but also with Hungary or the GDR in terms of living standards. This is really the first normal ruler after Stalin - Putin. Of course, we no longer have socialism, but it is almost nowhere to be found, except for 2-3 countries in East Asia.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 18 December 2019 08: 50
      +1
      Quote: Boris Kotov
      except 2-3 East Asian countries.

      Excuse me, but what is the second, especially the third?
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 18 December 2019 10: 45
        +2
        Officially, they consider themselves to be socialist in the PRC, Vietnam, North Korea and Laos. All four countries make up a single territorial massif with one and a half billion people. In China, 1 billion 400 million; Vietnam is one hundred millionth. DPRK and Laos on their background trifle.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 18 December 2019 13: 25
          +1
          Quote: Sergej1972
          Socialist People's Republic of China, Vietnam

          Clear
        2. Boris Kotov
          Boris Kotov 18 December 2019 22: 58
          +2
          Well, I wrote about this, I was in 3 out of 4, without the DPRK. it’s still difficult to move there relatively freely even in the capital, so I have enough material from North Korea for those who have been there. There are 100 million people in Vietnam, but socialism is relatively recent there. Saigon was taken in 1975, and the SRV was created, it seems, in 1978. In the DPRK, an economic miracle was already observed in the 1950s.
    2. Alf
      Alf 18 December 2019 19: 10
      +1
      Quote: Boris Kotov
      really the first normal ruler after Stalin is Putin.

      How is he normal? By the way, tomorrow the whole world will listen to the tales of the "normal ruler". I wonder how many HOURS will these fairy tales be removed from U-tuba, when the number of minus "State Department agents" goes off scale?
      1. Boris Kotov
        Boris Kotov 18 December 2019 23: 05
        0
        To everyone. He corrects the Khrushchev jambs. Many problems are not even rooted in the 1990s, but deeper. Search better :) Compare:
        - Khrushchev got not a country, but a sweetie. Spoil everything, I wrote about it above and he just got a kick in the ass.
        -Brezhnev got a country that was already crippled, but he also let go of everything on the brakes and people were very primitive. Lenya hanged the Order of Victory for himself, isn't it funny? And under him, life expectancy for men began to decline, for the capitalists, Christmas trees, sticks, grew, and in the "advanced" USSR it decreased, and people tried not to talk about this. And also ... She, I'm trite too lazy to write you a lecture about Brezhnev.
        -Chernenko and Andropov can be considered as part of the Brezhnev period.
        -Gorbachev’s country has already gotten very problematic, well, he destroyed it quickly and efficiently in 6 years.
        -Yeltsin already got half-dead and survived!
        -Putin already got completely disgraceful in 1999 and ... 20 years have passed since we have not a country, but a sweetie. We stock up on red caviar and wait for Turkey to leave NATO, and Latvia and Co. will be thrown out of the EU.
        They do not seek good from good. I do not understand the modern yap-style critics of Putin. It was necessary to criticize Brezhnev from every iron, but in those years it was dangerous to play criticism beyond the kitchen.
        1. Alf
          Alf 19 December 2019 19: 51
          -1
          Quote: Boris Kotov
          We stock up on red caviar and wait for Turkey to leave NATO, and Latvia and Co. will be thrown out of the EU.

          And what do we do with this? Will money be poured into the economy? Will the education system be canceled? 12 minutes to visit a doctor will increase? Differentiated income tax will introduce? Will they open their production?
  23. kupitman
    kupitman 18 December 2019 10: 41
    0
    To summarize, I correctly understood that some Communists were good, others bad and bad won because the good turned out to be weak?
  24. smaug78
    smaug78 18 December 2019 14: 20
    -3
    as always, exuberant Samsonov burns with napalm, not bothering himself with links to information sources. Anyway, the liquidarium sources falsified laughing
  25. Basarev
    Basarev 18 December 2019 17: 33
    -1
    In fact, solving the housing problem is much easier than it seems. You just need to build not expensive and complex high-rise buildings, but domed houses. Each family has a domed house. And, as I already wrote, to dissolve cities, creating small towns of thousands. But not just by directive eviction, actually sending people into exile, but to attract more favorable economic conditions, the proportion of "earnings-cost of living" should be better than in Moscow - and people will begin to disperse. And the capital itself, as I wrote again, should be moved to a closed town built from scratch like the existing ones. The task of the capital is only to govern the country, nothing else.
  26. Misha Smirnov
    Misha Smirnov 20 December 2019 05: 06
    -1
    What are you writing??? They drove people off the ground and put them in semi-cells - Khrushchev.
    Harvest and resources drove west.
  27. Procopius Nesterov
    Procopius Nesterov 24 December 2019 16: 57
    0
    I can’t understand anything. The author writes about 1956, but Stalin died in March 1953.
    And then he himself gives a quote below how much the house was built.
    For the construction of an apartment building, including the zero cycle and the connection of communications, then, as now, it took about a year. Thus, the mass settlement of brick "Khrushchevs" began not earlier than 1960, and industrial - from 1962. It was to be expected that the mass receipt by the population of new apartments began in 1960.
    Further, the author writes that after 6 years in 1959, people still move into Stalin's houses.
    reaches 1959 million people in 5,8. However, all these people do not enter the "Khrushchev", but in Stalin's apartments and houses!
    That is, under Brezhnev, according to this logic, until 1970 did they enter the Khrushchev houses?