Military Review

Crimea, Belarus and the issue of freedom of choice

148

Two points of view on one historical event



Since the very Crimean events of March 2014, there are two fundamentally different versions of what happened. As a matter of fact, these two versions are absolutely incompatible initially and do not leave any place for any negotiations and “consultations”. The version of Ukraine (and the version of the West) is aggression; Crimea was “occupied”. From the point of view of Russia (and Crimeans themselves), there was a return to their native harbor. By the way, it is precisely the example of Crimea that clearly demonstrates to the "pacifists" that sometimes political conflicts have simply irremovable causes. Sometimes fundamentally impossible to agree and it is necessary either to fight or surrender.

Almost everyone knows that the political system of Ukraine in February 2014 irreversibly changed. Denying this (and hoping for a rollback to starting positions) is stupid enough. What happened is what happened. I must say that a significant part of the elites and the population of Ukraine either supported this reversal, or at least did not seriously protest. You know, it is impossible to make a clean policy in an airless space, without looking back at the masses.

Ukraine is not quite Russia, all today's regrets of some Ukrainians are “tactical” regrets, they say, something went wrong. If the population of Ukraine was categorically against, the Maidan would not be impossible. There are no miracles. But it did. And about the same as fractions of different densities are separated in a powerful separator, so after the Maidan the protest (and the decisive protest) went just in the Crimea, and, oddly enough, in the Donbass (strange, because Donetsk is the base of those same “Donetsk "). So there, in the Donbass, everything was “not so clear” until 2014.

I would even say that Donetsk “flew” from Ukraine due to the very unprofessional and aggressive actions of the new authorities. But Crimea was clearly, unequivocally and categorically against from the very beginning. Such matters, no one is to blame, it turned out itself. But I must say that in general Ukraine "ran" for the Maidan. And to do something with it was very difficult. We cannot decide something for the inhabitants of another state.

But Crimea just did not run. Crimea ran strictly in the opposite direction. Which, in principle, is quite normal. The only option for the new government to keep this region within Ukraine was a purely forceful one. But just the possibility of such interference from Kiev was not. Simply, Russia entered the game. And the Ukrainian authorities (both old and new) did not use any popularity on the peninsula.

And just from the very beginning of independence, Kiev was counting solely and exclusively on a power scenario, and therefore, no democratic-populist attempts to make Ukrainian power popular in Crimea were made in principle. And for millions of people in Eastern Europe, for whom the pro-Western choice is the only rational one, such a turn of Crimea was categorically unacceptable from the very beginning. And they kind of ask himself this question, and the only reasonable answer for them is we with Europe!

That is, people simply do not have the initial opportunity to understand that the choice is actually very different (in Russia, unfortunately, not everyone understands this either). And the logic itself, that someone chose Eurointegration, and someone chose to be part of Russia, is fundamentally unacceptable to them. That is why the opinion of the Crimeans themselves, paradoxically, was not in demand at all levels. Because (and this was already obvious) it was clearly pro-Russian and unequivocally unacceptable to Europeans.

And the European comrades, with all their respect for human rights and democracy, were categorically not ready for any kind of dialogue. Because this is the will of the inhabitants of Crimea (with obvious results) was categorically unprofitable for them. Therefore, a very simple decision was immediately made: the actions of Russia were designated as “aggression”, and no one in Europe was going to leave this point. And not gathered at this moment.

A “simple” solution to the tricky question from Belarusians


The approach to this problem in the Republic of Belarus turned out to be much more paradoxical. In the sense that, purely theoretically, the problem was really incredibly complex: understandable reluctance to quarrel with Ukraine and Europe, on the one hand, and close allied relations with Russia, on the other. There is something to think about, there is something to scratch your head.

So, the solution was found very quickly, and it was very simple. The Republic of Belarus not only did not recognize the fact of Crimea joining the Russian Federation, but the Belarusian press clearly defined one single all-Belarusian position on the Crimea issue: Crimea is “annexed”. Clearly, firmly and unequivocally. It’s like in the Belarusian press they never write “to Ukraine” and always write “to Ukraine”. However ... however, such an unambiguous decision on the Crimea immediately destroyed one of the most wonderful Belarusian myths that Belarusians really want to unite with Russia, but "they don’t know how."

This myth is shattered. After all, in fact, what happened? Crimea has done exactly what Belarus is “about to do” for 25 years - that is, to unite with Russia. And Crimea accelerated very quickly and walked around the corner of unhurried Belarusians. Or how? Or what do you want? What were you going to do? What was meant by the beautiful word "integration"? Explain, please.

If anything, then the gas prices in Crimea are just quite Russian, and the Crimean enterprises have no problems with access to the Russian market. You are it wanted to. Or what? The Crimea also has no problems getting Moscow loans today (the Prime Minister of the Republic of Belarus, Rumas, is quietly envious in the corner). That is, all those problems that the Belarusian side has persistently voiced for us for decades have been resolved as if by magic.

For some reason, in the Crimea for a couple of years managed to do much more in the sense of solving all these problems, than for the entire period of the reign of a great friend of Russia from Shklov in Russian-Belarusian relations. Why? It is absolutely incomprehensible. In Belarus, the topic of contradictions along the lines of Russians - Belarusians is actively promoted and incited. Professional propagandists work. Problems created the sea. But how do Russians relate to Crimeans? Crimeans are exactly the same citizens of Russia. Everything.

In a strange way, the integration of Crimea into Russia was called (following the example of its Western partners) “annexation”, it is not studied and is not considered in Belarus in principle. "It is illegal". And, as A.G. Lukashenko, “destroy the Belarusian state”, which is absolutely inevitable during integration - is this legal? Not? Why then talk about integration?

For some reason, Crimea was integrated without any special problems (not counting those brought in by the “partners”). Nobody asks special questions, and people celebrate the day of unification. Well, as in Germany, celebrate October 3. And at that moment (March 18), when in Crimea, as throughout Russia, people are singing, dancing and having fun, Belarusians look at all this with great disapproval. When Mr. Babich gathered a press conference about this holiday, representatives of the leading media of the Republic of Belarus refused to attend it. Demonstratively.

To whom and why rejoice?


But it is not clear that the panamas do not like? The whole essence and whole meaning of the relationship between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus is kind of like integration. This is if officially. But the integration of Crimea (quite successful for itself) causes a terrible rejection. Complete rejection. But the result of integration (and we are just interested in the result) should be just: a common economy, a common policy, a common market, and so on. How this is achieved is already the tenth thing; the main thing is to achieve this.

Crimean citizens today enjoy the rights of Russian citizens; Crimean enterprises, unlike those remaining in Ukraine, have no problems with access to the Russian market. Russia, without any questions and requests, invests a lot in Crimea, the standard of living and employment of which is already higher than in the "sovereign Republic of Belarus." Yes, there are certain restrictions due to sanctions, but for this we must already say “thanks” to our Western partners.

Both Europe and Ukraine consider Crimean residents to be part of the Ukrainian state, but they haven’t done anything good for the last 5 years, only bad. That is, for the “wrong”, from their point of view, decision, they declared all residents of the Crimea “criminals”. Something like that. They do dirty tricks and sit, waiting for them to love Ukraine.

But the process cannot be stopped. Crimea really became a part of the Russian Federation. And it cannot be said that in Crimea someone was greatly offended. And yes, for obvious reasons, integration with Russia did not imply preservation of the full sovereignty of the Republic of Belarus. This, sorry, is fried ice. This does not happen. For 24 years of “integration”, it has already become clear that Belarusians would like to have a completely sovereign state, with foreign policy completely independent from Moscow, and at the same time maintain full access to the Russian market and to Russian resources, as it were, as “subjects of the Russian Federation” . Yes, yes, exactly so: an independent state on the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation.

This, for obvious reasons, sounds wild enough, and therefore not voiced aloud. Nothing is clearly voiced at all, but the reaction to the Crimean events implies that Belarusians are not going to ride joyfully at the reunion with Russia in 5 or 10 years. Then what is it all about? The Germans celebrated quite happily on October 3. This is their holiday, and this is their day. For many years they wanted unification, and they united.

Russians happily celebrate March 18th. We have been waiting for this for many years - and now it happened. The question is what are Belarusians waiting for and what do they want to celebrate? EU Accession Day? I understand that they are ready, but what does Russia have to do with it? What is happening in Crimea does not have to be liked by someone from foreigners. What for? What is their business, do they live in Kiev or Brussels? This is the business of the Russians themselves. "Sevastopol will remain Russian." In a strange way, those who in Belarus deny the return of Crimea to Russia (modeled on their Western counterparts) are categorically not ready to discuss something with the residents of Sevastopol themselves. But this is already suspicious: today they are not ready to talk with the residents of Simferopol, tomorrow they will refuse to discuss something with Krasnodar ...

Crimeans no one "drove" to Russia, they essentially created unbearable conditions in Ukraine. And they did his free choice. In the same way, no one drives Belarusians to Russia, for some reason this horror story is the most popular in the Belarusian press. I understand that Belarus is not a very free country, but not to deny freedom of choice as such? Belarusians today categorically do not want a union with Russia.

For some reason, the most difficult thing for residents of the Republic of Belarus is to understand that there is such a thing as freedom of choice. They also have it, oddly enough. Russian tsars at one time very much burned to the inclusion of Poland in Russia. Stalin was very burned at the inclusion of Lviv in the USSR. Why repeat their mistakes? Does Belarus want to be European? Why not?

But trying to be “like Poland”, while maintaining the “candle factory” in Russia, will fail, although pan Poroshenko tried for a very long time.

Author:
Photos used:
rus.rt.com
Articles from this series:
Ukrainian version for Belarus
Choice of freedom in the absence of freedom of choice
148 comments
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  1. GKS 2111
    GKS 2111 17 December 2019 05: 27 New
    10
    Crimea is ours! But Belarus ... And Lukashenka is still trying to sit on two chairs, but "trying to be" like Poland ", while keeping the" candle factories "in Russia, will not work." The choice will still have to be made ..
    1. Victor N
      Victor N 17 December 2019 08: 44 New
      +7
      Everything is clear with Lukashenko: he needs no one except those who recognize his greatness. And Belarusians need to understand that in Europe they are NOBODY. Like Jews who have come to Germany, whom the Germans do not see at point blank range. Belarus is a small country with almost no natural resources; it will never become great and rich. This is geography. No, they don’t pull to Russia, but they offer it for now. Free-will.
      1. knn54
        knn54 17 December 2019 11: 46 New
        +9
        All the same, Caesar was right. Lukashenko is better to be the first in Minsk than the second (?) In Moscow.
        1. Lelek
          Lelek 17 December 2019 15: 13 New
          +2
          Quote: knn54
          All the same, Caesar was right. Lukashenko is better to be the first in Minsk than the second (?) In Moscow.

          hi
          Everything would be fine, if only narcissism and puffing of cheeks by an "agronomist". But flirting with the West and NATO under the guise of "friendly" conversations with Putin, announcements of hundreds of "integration" options, never-ending demands for preferences, this is something else and is called differently, about which the Russian government should ask the "partner" complete.
      2. Serega82
        Serega82 23 December 2019 01: 29 New
        +1
        And we, as you said, will be no one in Russia either. Even in your comments you can see arrogance. Rassians often come to our city (in casinos and sanatoriums), so we, locals, talk like cattle. Everything is very clear and instructive for us, which makes us think ....
    2. Stas157
      Stas157 17 December 2019 09: 32 New
      +5
      I respect the author with respect, but I will allow myself a few objections. Regarding the differences between Russians and Ukrainians. Here I fully support Putin, who said that this is one people. There are more similarities than differences.

      The same applies to Belarusians. If we want to unite, then there is no need to look for differences. It is necessary to bring everything to a common denominator. And you can’t do without compromises.
      . Russian tsars at one time very badly burned on the inclusion of Poland in Russia. Stalin badly burned on the inclusion of Lviv in the USSR. Why repeat their mistakes?

      Poland was part of the Russian Empire for almost 200 years. And I didn’t feel any inconvenience in this regard. On the contrary, many Poles became major Russian figures and acted for the good of the country.

      Stalin, too, did not experience any inconvenience from the inclusion of Lvov in the USSR. And I didn’t even think of burning myself. All that odious happened in Lviv, it was not under Soviet rule... Yes, take at least modern Russia. If everything goes to pieces, in some republics it will immediately explode. But this is not a reason to exclude someone from the federation and accuse Putin of "laying a mine under Russian statehood"!
      1. Olezhek
        17 December 2019 10: 16 New
        +9
        I respect the author,


        Thank you

        but I allow myself a few objections. Regarding the differences between Russians and Ukrainians. Here I fully support Putin, who said that this is one people. There are more similarities than differences.


        Have you talked to Ukrainians?
        From personal experience: in the Moscow office we regularly met with different Europeans and Europeans
        So, it’s unpleasant to talk about it, BUT the Germans and Italians were much more open
        and friendly than the Ukrainians.
        And there were an order of magnitude less problems with them.
        I do not know why
        And even with the Japanese everything was easier

        One people? belay
        Belarusians were not too "open to communication" either, although there were different
        So the topic of "fraternal peoples" I somehow do not really perceive
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 17 December 2019 10: 39 New
          +8
          Quote: Olezhek
          From personal experience: in the Moscow office we regularly met with different Europeans and Europeans
          So, it’s unpleasant to talk about it, BUT the Germans and Italians were much more open
          and friendly than the Ukrainians.
          And there were an order of magnitude less problems with them.

          in order to understand what happened it is necessary not to meet in a cafe, but to live in Ukraine.
          Ukraine happened against the backdrop of police lawlessness in the country, economic squeezing of the population and the progressive hatred of the population towards Yanukovych. Nationalists took advantage of this. Not a single president of Ukraine was pro-Russian and Ukrainization has been going on since the country's independence
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 December 2019 12: 44 New
            +1
            . Not a single president of Ukraine was pro-Russian and Ukrainization has been going on since the country's independence

            Who else would explain such a nuance
            At the same time, all Ukrainian presidents, except Kravchuk and Yushchenko, were Russian-speaking
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 17 December 2019 13: 03 New
              +6
              Quote: Avior
              Who else would explain such a nuance
              At the same time, all Ukrainian presidents, except Kravchuk and Yushchenko, were Russian-speaking

              So most Ukrainian Nazis also write in Russian. Well, except for Farion and Nice. smile
              And famous be-be-be-discussion at a meeting of senior management was also conducted not on a sovereign mov.
              However, the Ukrainian authorities are taking measures to rectify the situation, yes ... There, sprechenfyurer Monakhova already got to the bottom of children's circles:
              The default should be Ukrainian. This means that for the first time the law is explained to them, and for the second, a fine occurs. All this is in the law.
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 17 December 2019 12: 58 New
            15
            Quote: Silvestr
            Ukraine happened against the backdrop of police lawlessness in the country, economic squeezing of the population and the progressive hatred of the population towards Yanukovych.

            And was it not long before Yanukovych in Crimea that they even cut off the radio in Russian, banned the broadcasts of "Mayak" and removed Russian channels from television? Or do you not remember what kind of shit poured out on Russians in the Ukrainian print media, even under the brands MK, Komsomolskaya Pravda and AiF, while Russian publications were getting rid of in every possible way? In Crimea, only one republican publication was not permeated with Russophobia - this is "Krymskaya Pravda", and even then it was clamped down as soon as they could. So the point is not in the police chaos and not in Yanukovych, but in the very essence of the Ukrainians, who spread rot on all Russian-speakers, and this is true - I know too well what was going on there all the years of independence, which is why the Crimeans immediately fled from Svidomo. that Kiev milked Crimea in such a way that it was the most seedy region of Ukraine - and that was all before Yanukovych.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 17 December 2019 13: 01 New
              +5
              Quote: ccsr
              I know too well

              This is not about the Crimea, but about the choice of Ukraine. And what was in the Crimea, I saw with my own eyes
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Lelek
                Lelek 17 December 2019 15: 33 New
                +3
                Quote: Silvestr
                It’s not about Crimea, but about the choice of Ukraine. And what was in the Crimea, I saw with my own eyes

                hi
                It is for this reason that the former Ukraine de facto lost the LDNR and speech about the "return of the prodigal sons to Ridna nenku" - blah blah for domestic consumption due to the centrifugal tendencies of the regions.
      2. Kronos
        Kronos 17 December 2019 13: 07 New
        +1
        And then what was the Polish uprising?
      3. The comment was deleted.
    3. Karaul73
      Karaul73 17 December 2019 13: 49 New
      -1
      The cunning Lukashenko has been making this choice for more than twenty years. He cannot make the final choice and take sides. Opponents shove down.
  2. samarin1969
    samarin1969 17 December 2019 06: 10 New
    +7
    “So there, in Donbass, everything was“ not so clear ”until 2014 ... And it was very difficult to do something about it. We cannot decide something for the inhabitants of another state." the reasons for such regular "messages" of the same type.

    . "But trying to be" like Poland ", while keeping the" candle factories "in Russia, will not work, although Pan Poroshenko tried for a very long time" ..... Author, wake up! It has been 25 years since "it turns out: the budget of the Russian Federation is being milked" for border protection, "the bases are not placed; the republics are not recognized," Lithuanianism "is the basis of politics.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 December 2019 08: 52 New
      +2
      Well, for 25 years in Russia it’s tired of worse than the bitter radish and actively freebie cover. MAZs no longer drive on Russian roads, Russians do not eat Belarusian shrimp, and the Republic of Belarus does not allow us to cash in on our oil. Why do Old Man Ryhororych and hysteria.
  3. Thrifty
    Thrifty 17 December 2019 06: 22 New
    0
    Oleg! !!! We are guilty, and not the people of Belarus! We are guilty that we did not put pressure on Lukashenko, that integration into a single state was not immediately set as a priority task! It’s our fault that we don’t give at least our oligarchs, whom the Belarusians are afraid of, and do not keep our officials on a short leash so that they only carry out their work carefully and do not go wherever they belong! We hands Lukashenko released from the Pandora’s box Belarusian nationalists, we feed them hydrocarbons and loans, in response to the empty promises of Lukashenko, and not the people of Belarus! 20 years ago it was very tough to raise the question of Belarus becoming part of Russia on the basis of autonomy, at least for the next 20 years, until we agree and resolve all controversial issues and moments! But, nothing of the kind has been done, the nationalists of our countries , unlike our authorities, they easily found a common language, and now even the discussion of the option of not only entering, but of the economic iteration of Belarus into the economic space of Russia is actively interfering!
    1. Edik
      Edik 17 December 2019 06: 51 New
      +4
      Quote: Thrifty
      Oleg! !!! We are guilty, and not the people of Belarus! We are guilty that we did not put pressure on Lukashenko, that integration into a single state was not immediately set as a priority task!

      For me, this is the main integration issue: Where do you see Lukashenko in this single country? In the meantime, Lukashenko hasn’t decided for himself! I don’t see him as President of Russia, it’s painful!
    2. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 07: 32 New
      +9
      We are guilty that we did not put pressure on Lukashenko, that integration into a single state was not immediately set as a priority task! We are to blame


      Personally, I do not consider myself "guilty" of anything





      The way out there. (D.A. Medvedev)
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 17 December 2019 07: 42 New
        -7
        Oleg, under the concept of WE am talking about the whole of Russia, about our power and personally Putin, first of all!
        1. Olezhek
          17 December 2019 07: 48 New
          +1
          WE are talking about the whole of Russia, about our power and Putin personally, first of all!


          Comrade Thrifty, Medvedev (with whom I agree on the door for Belarusians) I have already posted to you, but he seems to be in power
          Pretty boy?
          1. Thrifty
            Thrifty 17 December 2019 08: 42 New
            +1
            Oleg, Vedmedev is needed as a lightning rod, looking at him, people blindly believe that Putin is better, although you yourself know who put someone on what place in the Kremlin!
            1. Edik
              Edik 17 December 2019 09: 28 New
              +3
              Quote: Thrifty
              Oleg, Vedmedev is needed as a lightning rod, looking at him, people blindly believe that Putin is better, although you yourself know who put someone on what place in the Kremlin!

              I’ll tell you one clever idea, but don’t be offended! Well, let’s say on the example of a person. So, there, at the top, everyone represents someone, let's say the interests of the elite! And Medvedev is no exception requestIn order for us all to move in the right direction, we need to come to a common denominator, that is, we will agree on compromises! If this is not done, then, by analogy with a person, we will go forward with the right foot and the left one will step back! You won’t go far, you agree ? You can certainly all to the wall! Or, by analogy, shoot yourself in the left leg, but at the same time we will be lame and treated for a long time, and we can grab gangrene.
              1. Lelek
                Lelek 17 December 2019 15: 42 New
                -2
                Quote: Edik
                You can, of course, all to the wall! Or, by analogy, shoot yourself in the left leg, but at the same time we will limp and be treated for a long time, and we can grab the gangrene.

                hi
                And you can (and this is in reality) also betray your few friends and give the kitsch to the Natsiks to declare the protection of Russians and friends of Russia and do nothing but blah blah for this.
                1. Edik
                  Edik 17 December 2019 18: 43 New
                  +2
                  Lev hi and who is she? Before that (scandal) I hadn’t heard of her request
                  A muddy FSB story, some kind of operational fuss! They didn’t give it out, but they made it to the stop list and sent it from Russia!
                  1. Lelek
                    Lelek 18 December 2019 00: 13 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Edik
                    and who is she?

                    hi
                    Helen Boyko observed on our political shows for 5 years of the coup in \ on Ruin. She always with humor and even rude sarcasm criticized the Kiev elite in spite of all sorts of Kovtuns, Suvorov, Zhivnorenki and other scumbags of an independent spill. I don’t know the blogger A.Mit (a), and what he said in the video is not objective and smacks of slander.
                    1. Edik
                      Edik 18 December 2019 06: 06 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Lelek
                      I don’t know the blogger A.Mit (a), and what he said in the video is not objective and smacks of slander.

                      Yes there her comments make Leo think hi , this is about suckers and not the desire that they would release her, etc.! We have an opportunity to obtain citizenship for Ukrainians who came in connection with the political persecution requestFor me, this is a game of special services, I think it will sit for a long time for everyone (in the dungeons of the SBU).
                      1. Lelek
                        Lelek 19 December 2019 01: 58 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Edik
                        For me, this is a game of special services, I think it will sit for a long time for everyone (in the dungeons of the SBU).

                        hi
                        Maybe, but still "sorry for the bird."
            2. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 17 December 2019 09: 35 New
              -9
              Who planted whom? GDP and Nedimon from different clans, with competing ones.
            3. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 17 December 2019 10: 03 New
              +2
              But did Putin begin talking about integration ??? something like we briefly remember everything
            4. New Year day
              New Year day 17 December 2019 10: 43 New
              +2
              Quote: Thrifty
              Vedmedev is needed as a lightning rod, people are looking at him ...

              laughs and laughs, understanding "hu from hu"

              How much Medvedev has done for the fall of authority in the country remains to be studied, enough pension reform is enough to start
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 17 December 2019 13: 03 New
        +6
        Quote: Olezhek
        Personally, I do not consider myself "guilty" of anything

        You described everything correctly in the article and I agree with your conclusion - Belarus will never integrate into Russia as the Crimea did, and therefore all their arguments about the union state are just for diversion and for obtaining additional preferences. And so it's time for us to take off our rose-colored glasses and look at them the way they deserve it. Although I personally have nothing against the Belarusians themselves, but their ruler is too cunning - "both yours and ours will sing and dance."
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 17 December 2019 10: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Thrifty
      Oleg! !!! We are guilty, and not the people of Belarus!

      Well, wrong! A hundred times wrong!
    4. sniperino
      sniperino 17 December 2019 12: 13 New
      +4
      Quote: Thrifty
      We ourselves are guilty, and not the people of Belarus! We are guilty that we did not put pressure on Lukashenko
      Almost like Liya Medzhidovna Akhedzhakova repent. You probably did not personally have the opportunity to “put pressure on Lukashenka,” but blame for those who could and, in your mind, certainly should. She, too, does not see personal guilt, but she repents so, so repents ...
  4. However, dear
    However, dear 17 December 2019 06: 47 New
    -14 qualifying.
    The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding Ministry of Defense medal. After this "and they themselves wanted to join us," the European neighbors and not only them, specifically did it and began to break into NATO, and those who are already there began to demand an increase in the contingent on their territories, so that "polite little men in khaki" they didn't get there either. But father, it seems like he is not torn to NATO, but he also does not intend to merge, since he himself has both God and the king there. In general, it is necessary to negotiate. Crimea and Belarus cannot be compared.

    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 07: 20 New
      +9
      The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by


      Yeah - and in the 45th zapadentsev joined us finally
      And the glorious city of Lemberg
      But somehow it didn’t work ...

      The military operation here is secondary
      1. However, dear
        However, dear 17 December 2019 07: 39 New
        -13 qualifying.
        zapadentsev finally joined
        And the glorious city of Lemberg
        But somehow it didn’t work ...


        Lviv are other people. The Belarusians are closer, it can work, but ... kindly, gently, by agreement.

        The military operation here is secondary


        It may be so, but this caused the whole boron cheese to flare up: everyone believes that the referendum was not free.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 17 December 2019 08: 55 New
          +6
          They were already offered by agreement. But by agreement, for example, one would have to send guys from Lviv to the Caucasus and pay for the development of some Kamchatka, and this is unacceptable, it is better when there is access to the Russian market, deliveries from Russia at Russian prices, a Russian nuclear shield, but invest in something in Russia, God forbid.
          1. However, dear
            However, dear 17 December 2019 09: 14 New
            -9
            Do you yourself believe that RB can be taken, like the Crimea, without blood?
            1. Olezhek
              17 December 2019 09: 25 New
              +5
              Do you yourself believe that RB can be taken, like the Crimea, without blood?


              1 Hmm, dear, and Kosovo, too, "without blood" was taken, or what?

              2 In general, the question is not how, but why?
              1. However, dear
                However, dear 17 December 2019 09: 35 New
                -5
                Quote: Olezhek
                1 Hmm, dear, and Kosovo, too, "without blood" was taken, or what?

                2 In general, the question is not how, but why?


                I agree here. If not by consent, or at least without blood, then why?
            2. Earth
              Earth 17 December 2019 10: 07 New
              -5
              Quote: However, Dear
              like Crimea, without blood?

              the dead were.
              Figuratively without blood, you should probably read without big blood.
              And so the shots killed were wounded.
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 17 December 2019 12: 34 New
                +5
                the dead were

                2 people. 2, CARL !!! Given the fact that 2 twenty thousandth military groups (roughly, plus, minus) stood against each other. And a million-plus citizens.
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 17 December 2019 13: 26 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  2 people. 2, CARL !!! Given the fact that 2 twenty thousandth military groups were opposed to each other
                  At a rally somewhere in the United States, Europe, such a thing happened, rarely anyone speaks of such victims of clashes with radicals for more than a week, and then they try to weld how much political pathos on two human lives.
      2. sniperino
        sniperino 17 December 2019 12: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek
        The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding MO medal.
        Yeah - and in the 45th zapadentsev joined us finally... The military operation here is secondary
        In addition, the participation of "polite people from the Ministry of Defense" was mentioned from the very beginning, now they are trying to present the award as "material evidence". The comedian with the bullet at the international gathering did not set a model, they have been working on it for a long time.
    2. Xenofont
      Xenofont 17 December 2019 08: 33 New
      +3
      Russian troops legally stationed in Crimea helped to ensure order in the process of expressing the will of local residents, at the request of the legitimate authorities of the Autonomous Republic in the person of its Supreme Council. All formalities are observed and cracking about the annexation no longer rolls.
      1. However, dear
        However, dear 17 December 2019 08: 59 New
        -6
        Quote: Xenofont
        crack about annexation no longer rolls


        Rudeness is not welcome, even if you do not agree and consider that your point of view is the only true one.
        1. Xenofont
          Xenofont 17 December 2019 09: 02 New
          +1
          Do not try to start a scandal. Crack all pro-Western characters in our press and liberoids. Do not overtighten the blanket.
          1. However, dear
            However, dear 17 December 2019 09: 17 New
            -5
            Good. If this is not to me personally, then drove through. smile
    3. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 17 December 2019 08: 50 New
      12
      Quote: However, Dear
      successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding medal of the Ministry of Defense. After this "and they themselves wanted to join us," the European neighbors and not only them, specifically did it and began to break into NATO, and those who are already there began to demand an increase in the contingent on their territories, so that "polite little men in khaki" they didn't get there either.

      And nothing that this medal was awarded mainly to residents of Sevastopol and Crimea. And what does a military operation have to do with it? Without the strongest desire to break free from the Ukrainian soap, the Sevastopol and Crimean residents did not succeed in any "military operation". ... I have the honor to be awarded such a medal!
      [i] Once again, without the strong desire of the Sevastopolites and Crimeans, nothing would have happened! ... Yes, and to the last we did not believe that Russia is not afraid, will support us. Supported the Crimea and Sevastopol, not scared .. Thanks to Russia! drinks
      1. However, dear
        However, dear 17 December 2019 09: 24 New
        -10 qualifying.
        Quote: 30 vis
        But nothing that residents of Sevastopol and Crimea were awarded this medal mainly. And what does the military operation have to do with it?


        I can’t answer, because I don’t own the information who got these medals. But there was a military operation for which medals were awarded by the state. So why should one be shy and hide it and not call a spade a spade?
        1. Edik
          Edik 17 December 2019 09: 41 New
          +6
          Quote: However, Dear
          But there was a military operation for which medals were awarded by the state.

          And let us call it peacekeeping! Do you agree Igor? what After all, everyone is healthy, alive, happy.
          1. However, dear
            However, dear 17 December 2019 09: 48 New
            -12 qualifying.
            Quote: Edik
            And let us call it peacekeeping! Do you agree Igor?


            No Edik, it was not a peacekeeping operation. This was exactly what the medal was given for: for the return of the Crimea.
            1. Edik
              Edik 17 December 2019 09: 56 New
              +4
              Quote: However, Dear
              This was exactly what the medal was given for: for the return of the Crimea.

              Do you have respected information in your head being processed?
              Quote: 30 vis
              But nothing that residents of Sevastopol and Crimea were awarded this medal mainly.

              So, say at least thanks to Yuri for this!
        2. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 17 December 2019 12: 36 New
          +4
          The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding Ministry of Defense medal. After this "and they themselves wanted to join us," the European neighbors and not only them, specifically did it and began to break into NATO, and those who are already there began to demand an increase in the contingent on their territories, so that "polite little men in khaki" they didn't get there either. But father, it seems like he is not torn to NATO, but he also does not intend to merge, since he himself has both God and the king there. In general, it is necessary to negotiate. Crimea and Belarus cannot be compared.

          Your post?
          And this one?
          I can’t answer, because I don’t own the information who got these medals.
          .
          So why did they write if you DO NOT OWN INFORMATION?
          1. However, dear
            However, dear 17 December 2019 21: 39 New
            -9
            Quote: Okolotochny
            So why did they write if you DO NOT OWN INFORMATION?


            But this is demagogy. Demagogy (other Greek: δημαγωγία “leadership of the people”; “ingratiation of the people”) - a set of oratory and polemic techniques and means that allow you to mislead the audience and incline it to your side, using false theoretical reasoning based on logical errors (sophisms).
            1. Edik
              Edik 18 December 2019 06: 18 New
              +4
              Quote: However, Dear
              The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding Ministry of Defense medal. After this "and they themselves wanted to join us," the European neighbors and not only them,

              But this is demagogy. Demagogy (other Greek: δημαγωγία “leadership of the people”; “ingratiation of the people”) - a set of oratory and polemic techniques and means that allow you to mislead the audience and incline it to your side, using false theoretical reasoning based on logical errors (sophisms). drinks
              1. However, dear
                However, dear 18 December 2019 23: 13 New
                -4
                But this?

                [media = https: //www.interfax.ru/world/688509]
      2. Edik
        Edik 17 December 2019 09: 50 New
        +5
        Quote: 30 vis
        Thanks to Russia!

        Thank you, dear you are our man !!! hi
      3. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 17 December 2019 12: 35 New
        +1
        And who are your two minusers? Just wondering.
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 17 December 2019 10: 44 New
      +7
      Quote: However, Dear
      The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding MO medal.

      rave!
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 17 December 2019 12: 38 New
        +3
        Sylvester, I .... plus you. Wow, I’m surprised myself.
    5. ccsr
      ccsr 17 December 2019 13: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: However, Dear
      The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation,

      Well, so rejoice for our commanders, you won’t drink skill. The whole question is what kind of new task they will be set, because not all Russian-speaking regions have been transferred to Russia, so let Svidomo Vaseline prepare ....
      1. However, dear
        However, dear 19 December 2019 11: 50 New
        -3
        Quote: ccsr
        Well, so rejoice for our commanders, you won’t drink skill.


        You are perhaps the only one in this thread who directly and openly acknowledged this: that the army performed its task perfectly (for which awards were awarded)! Two-thirds of this forum is not even anonymous (!) Willing to admit it. Look at my 1st comment: 25 versus 13 for. The army sets the task of the government. The army at 5+ did everything. Then came the consequences and costs. But this is no longer a question for the army. I also said that Crimea and Belarus are incomparable in this regard, which coincides with the opinion of the respected author of the article.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 19 December 2019 13: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: However, Dear

          You are probably the only one in this thread who directly and openly acknowledged this: that the army performed its task perfectly (for which awards were awarded)!

          I saw on YouTube in a video how troops were brought in, and how army aviation acted, and how convoys moved, and believe me, having experience, I can say that I was proud of what I saw. Coherence, speed and even the appearance of equipment immediately tells the professional about the training of troops, and this is the main indicator for the army. So I personally did not exaggerate anything - the movement of troops and the further occupation of positions were at their best, at least when assessing time standards.
          Quote: However, Dear
          Then came the consequences and costs. But this is no longer a question for the army.

          Without this, it doesn’t happen - even during exercises, people die or an emergency occurs with the civilian population due to the actions of the troops.
          Quote: However, Dear
          I also said that Crimea and Belarus are incomparable in this regard,

          I also think that under the current regime Belarus will never become what Crimea has become for Russia, and therefore it is not worth building illusions about a future unification.
    6. However, dear
      However, dear 17 December 2019 20: 34 New
      -7
      Interestingly, and with what do 18 disagree? I would like to know. On points, preferably.
      1. Edik
        Edik 18 December 2019 06: 21 New
        +4
        Quote: However, Dear
        Interestingly, and with what do 18 disagree? I would like to know. On points, preferably.

        I’ll say for myself, as I think, for which you were blundered! I think for naivety yesWant some details? I have them.
        1. However, dear
          However, dear 19 December 2019 00: 12 New
          -4
          Quote: Edik
          I’ll say for myself, as I think, why you were blundered! I think for naivety Do you want the details? I have them.


          And you will present it here, on the forum, in detail and reasonably. And then there are many wizards to put cons. Only these minuses are worth nothing, except that "I'm from your mob, lads."
    7. However, dear
      However, dear 18 December 2019 23: 27 New
      -4
      So, after 2 days, the score is 13 for and 24 against. That is, a third of forum users agree with me.

      Quote: However, Dear
      The annexation of Crimea in 2014 was the result of a successful military operation, as evidenced by the corresponding Ministry of Defense medal. After this "and they themselves wanted to join us," the European neighbors and not only them, specifically did it and began to break into NATO, and those who are already there began to demand an increase in the contingent on their territories, so that "polite little men in khaki" they didn't get there either. But father, it seems like he is not torn to NATO, but he also does not intend to merge, since he himself has both God and the king there. In general, it is necessary to negotiate. Crimea and Belarus cannot be compared.

      1. foreign spy
        foreign spy 19 December 2019 16: 22 New
        +1
        As far as I know, medals for the Crimea were received by all servicemen of the Russian Federation who served on the territory of Crimea, including me, although we conscripts did not take part in any events
  5. Den717
    Den717 17 December 2019 06: 58 New
    +3
    For some reason, in the Crimea for a couple of years it was possible to do much more in the sense of solving all these problems than for the entire term of the great Russian friend from Shklov in Russian-Belarusian relations. Why? It is absolutely incomprehensible.

    And what's not clear here? Everything is completely understandable here, if we bear in mind the fact that all questions of foreign and domestic policy, integration and confrontation with anyone are decided not by some Belarus or Crimea, but by the political elite in the person of specific people. And if the leaders of Crimea were solving the problem of transition from a subordinate state to one leadership (Ukraine) to a similar state to another leadership (Russia), then in the case of Belarus, the political elite of a sovereign country that is not subject to anyone goes into a subordinate state of the level of just a subject of another country. And it means a lot to them. Therefore, Belarus (again in the person of specific leaders) will only agree to an alliance with Russia when it, the country's political elite, in one case, retains its position of "first" after God, which is difficult to imagine. In another case, if, under external influence, there is a threat to this elite of physical / political liquidation by a third force without taking into account the interests of the RB elite. No one will give up sovereign power on their own, even though the population of the countries seems to be interested in this step.
    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 07: 23 New
      -3
      And what is incomprehensible here? Everything is completely clear here, if we keep in mind the fact that all issues of foreign and domestic policy, integration and confrontation with anyone else are decided not by a certain Belarus or Crimea, but by the political elite in the person of specific people.


      Is not a fact
      Even Yanukovych’s neutral policy met with massive opposition in western Ukraine
      If Lukashenko decides to join Russia tomorrow, he will simply be demolished by the thirsty for a European choice
      There are elites, but there are people
      Today, Lukashenko, with all the desire for Russia, will not be able to turn around (face)
      they don’t understand him
      1. Den717
        Den717 17 December 2019 08: 14 New
        +3
        Quote: Olezhek
        Even Yanukovych’s neutral policy met with massive opposition in western Ukraine

        Not so neutral. Yanyk tried to sit on two chairs, while he knew that the Poles and Lithuanians were preparing a national coup for him with US and EU money, but he was afraid to actively resist it. For which he paid.
        Quote: Olezhek
        If Lukashenko decides to join Russia tomorrow, he will simply be demolished by the thirsty for a European choice

        A sudden connection may not be understood. All such actions should have preliminary training.
        Quote: Olezhek
        There are elites, but there are people

        At one time, the people of the USSR voted for the USSR, which did not prevent the elite from destroying the Union. Is not it so? I think that charismatics gathered in a close-knit group are able to seriously adjust the policy of the state, although I agree that for success they will need the support of some part of the people. Maidan in Ukraine is an example of this. Less than 1% of the population managed to put the country on their ears and unleash a war, while the people as a whole are "for peace." There are people, and what about them?
      2. Xenofont
        Xenofont 17 December 2019 08: 37 New
        +3
        It is precisely the West’s supporters who will demolish it with real attempts, and with the support of the latter, for no one needs Lukashenko in a new capacity: there are enough of his lured and more obedient Russophobes!
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 17 December 2019 10: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: Olezhek
        Even Yanukovych’s neutral policy met with massive opposition in western Ukraine

        because there have always been 2 Ukraine: eastern and western. Everything was decided by the center of the country and Crimea, on whose side they stood, it was enough to analyze the results of the vote in the country for all the presidents of Ukraine.
        Yanukovych was never his own in the west and Yushchenko was never his own in the east.
    2. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 07: 36 New
      +4
      Therefore, Belarus (again in the person of specific leaders) will only agree to an alliance with Russia when it, the country's political elite, in one case, retains its position of "first" after God, which is difficult to imagine.


      It would be almost so if Belarus could feed itself and protect itself
      But she can't
      That is why Lukashenko regularly runs for money to Moscow
      and that’s why he aggressively ignores the issue of defense
      1. Den717
        Den717 17 December 2019 07: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: Olezhek
        That is why Lukashenko regularly runs for money to Moscow
        and that’s why he aggressively ignores the issue of defense

        He has such an opportunity solely on promises to our leadership to deepen integration processes and expectations in our leadership that the promise promised by the Republic of Belarus will be fulfilled. In any case, it is beneficial for us to have a certain pre-field between the Russian Federation and Poland from the point of view of military geography. And yes, it will cost us something ...
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 17 December 2019 08: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: Den717
          In any case, it is advantageous for us to have a certain pre-field between the Russian Federation and Poland in terms of military geography

          I personally doubt this more and more.
          Useless if this is not possible to arrange their parts?
          Hoping for the army of Belarus?
          Her actions again completely and completely depend on the decisions of the commander in chief.
  6. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 17 December 2019 07: 10 New
    +4
    For some reason, the most difficult thing for residents of the Republic of Belarus is to understand that there is such a thing as freedom of choice. They also have it, oddly enough. Russian tsars at one time very much burned to the inclusion of Poland in Russia. Stalin was very burned at the inclusion of Lviv in the USSR. Why repeat their mistakes? Does Belarus want to be European? Why not?

    Hmm, Yegorov, with this phrase you killed me. And even more so with a photo.
    Egorov, ascribing to the percentage of the population in the amount of statistical error the opinion of the entire Belarusian people is an idea.
    I read all your articles about the Republic of Belarus and I have already formed an opinion about you as a person whom some thread Belarusian somewhere once offended and everything that is printed under the guise of "analytics" (or personal opinion) is a banal vendetta. request
    And my personal advice is to climb less on HERE.by, taking it for the axiom of the opinion of the Belarusian people. Egorov, the number of visits does not yet speak about the veracity of the resource. And if a person has brains to think in different directions, then from one analysis of comments and their criticism on this resource, a picture of the frenzied opposition of this site opens. And this, in any case, is not the opinion of the entire people. But you, Mr. Yegorov, are very fond of referring to him. A photo with a group of corrupt "litvinau" confirms this.
    And yes, Olezhek, I have to go to work, so I'm in a hurry. A rally for integration with Russia is going to be held in Minsk, I have a question - will you compare the number of photographic materials provided today with what will take place and will the expression of the opinion of other Belarusians who are against Europe, as described by you in your "articles"? wink
    And so, Yegorov, for me personally you are just a banal offended oppositionist in views. With the same success, you can write about your "bogies" and attribute to them the opinion of the entire Russian people. But the difference is that I don't even have such thoughts. wink
    Hi, Egorov, personally from me, as from the Belarusian people lol
    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 07: 43 New
      +1
      And my personal advice is to climb TUT.by less, taking it for an axiom of opinion of the Belarusian people.




      Well climb on Deutsche Welle

      A former SOBR fighter told how they killed Zakharenko, Gonchar and Krasovsky



      Recall, on Monday, Deutsche Welle published the story of a man whom he introduced as a Belarusian Yuri Garavsky. The interlocutor claims that in 1999-2003 he was a fighter of SOBR - a special unit for the rapid response of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Belarus. According to Garavsky, 20 years ago, he participated in the abductions and liquidations of opponents of President Alexander Lukashenko. If you believe the words of the interlocutor, along with colleagues he kidnapped and killed ex-Minister of Internal Affairs of Belarus Yuri Zakharenko, ex-head of the Central Election Commission Viktor Gonchar and businessman Anatoly Krasovsky.


      Interesting movie ...
      1. Alexga
        Alexga 17 December 2019 11: 34 New
        +2
        Dmitry Pavlichenko about the interview of the “ex-fighter of the SOBR”: This is complete nonsense
        465
        16 December 2019 to 18: 03
        Elena Tolkacheva / TUT.BY

        The ex-commander of military unit 3214, the ex-commander of the SOBR, Dmitry Pavlichenko denies that the SOBR was related to the disappearance of Zakharenko, Gonchar and Krasovsky. And Yuri Garavsky, who claims that he participated in the abduction and murder of Zakharenko, Gonchar and Krasovsky 20 years ago as part of the SOBR, never served in the special unit under the command of Pavlichenko. This was stated by Pavlichenko in a comment to TUT.BY.

        Photo: Belarus today
        Photo: Belarus today
        Dmitry Pavlichenko commanded a special forces brigade of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (military unit 3214, Uruchye, Minsk). In 2008, he was deputy commander of the corps of public order of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for combat training. In 2009, he resigned. Now heads the Belarusian Association of Veterans of Special Forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Troops “Honor”.

        Dmitry Pavlichenko is included in the list of Belarusian officials who are banned from entering the EU and the USA due to the suspicion of his involvement in the high-profile disappearances in Belarus in 1999 and 2000.

        On November 23, 2000, Pavlichenko was detained on suspicion of involvement in the disappearances. However, Pavlichenko spent only a few hours in jail. He was released by personal order of the president. A few days later, the prosecutor general Oleg Bozhelko and the KGB chairman Vladimir Matskevich lost their posts. Bozhelko's place was taken by Victor Sheiman.

        - Garavsky served one and a half years of military service, and then dishonored [internal troops]. He has nothing to do with SOBR. We [in 1998] opened a staff of contractors, he did not have much intelligence, the lad was healthy, but there were certain skills in hand-to-hand combat, and we took him. But SOBR was formed in 1999. And at that time, in 1999, he fell under criminal liability - he was engaged in extortion. He was taken into development by the Main Directorate for Combating Organized Crime and Corruption, detained by Almaz - everything was serious there. Therefore, when some events happened [in 1999], to which the SOBR was not related, he was serving his sentence.

        There is a dossier in the KGB on Garavsky. He has nothing to do with the SOBR, he disgraced our ranks, took up criminal business - extorting money from ordinary citizens, hiding behind the fact that he was an employee of the [Ministry of Internal Affairs]. We expelled him from our ranks, he served three or four years. He sat down in 1999.

        “But he claims to be a fighter of the SOBR from 1999 to 2003.”

        - This cannot be, he was serving a sentence at that time. Despite serving his sentence, his own was not his own, but he served with us, and I helped him get a job. He [at work] again committed some fraud, and he was kicked out of there. Then he got drunk while driving in an accident and became crippled. I also found a way, it is customary with us, I support many - I head the Belarusian Association of Veterans, and I have a lot of patients and cripples in my care, I also found a way to support it. But the man [Garavsky] is trying to make money on this all. The man simply lost his conscience and guiding lines. For 20 years there have been many publications, I have already seen enough. There were no mysterious operations.

        - So you say that the SOBR under your command did not participate in the abduction and murder of Zakharenko, Gonchar and Krasovsky, which Garavsky talks about?

        - This is some kind of nonsense. Well, maybe someone out there doing something about it. “We are a special forces special forces unit, these are issues that are within the competence of other bodies, if they were doing this,” Pavlichenko says.
        Read more: https://news.tut.by/economics/665390.html
      2. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 17 December 2019 18: 11 New
        +3
        Quote: Olezhek
        Interesting movie ...

        Olezhek, but it’s not interesting
        Dmitry Pavlichenko about the interview of the “ex-fighter of the SOBR”: This is complete nonsense
        465

        In the comment below wink
        And I can recommend the Polish Belsat, the satellite channel, which is broadcast to Belarus, to see - there, Olezhka, every day the victims' mules cry about the lawlessness of the police laughing There, Oleg, the acts of this "former fellow" will seem like a kindergarten laughing laughing
        It's disgusting, Olezhek is not that you write nonsense, but that people who do not know the realities believe in this nonsense hi
    2. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 08: 07 New
      0
      Hi, Egorov, personally from me, as from the Belarusian people


      Have a nice one you too....

      - Pavlichenko gathered us two or three days before. We were then at the SOBR base in the area between Begoml and Dokshitsy, we trained. He gathered our skeleton and says: “Who will go to detention? It will be necessary to detain and liquidate two "- said Garavsky. The surnames of those who need to be detained were not given to the group again. “Understand, I’m saying how the conversation was:“ So, you decide who will go to detention, who will dig holes. ”
      Read more: https://news.tut.by/economics/665374.html


      Sasha wanted euroshlyaha?
      In vain is he ...
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 17 December 2019 08: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Egorov, ascribing to the percentage of the population in the amount of statistical error the opinion of the entire Belarusian people is an idea.

      And how far-fetched and divorced from reality is it against the backdrop of recent events in Ukraine ...
  7. bistrov.
    bistrov. 17 December 2019 07: 57 New
    -8
    Belarus definitely needs to be annexed to Russia. To do this, you need to hold a real referendum, I am sure that the majority of the population will speak out in favor of joining Russia. And whoever disagrees, let them bring them to their own Europe, who have moved from Crimea, who did not want to go to Russia to the continental "Ukraine" and now they are angry on social networks from afar ... Spit on their screams - the dog barks, and the caravan moves on.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 December 2019 08: 58 New
      +4
      And if you do not speak out?
    2. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 10: 18 New
      0
      Belarus definitely needs to be annexed to Russia. To do this, a real referendum is necessary, I am sure that the majority of the population will speak out for joining Russia.


      Chat with Belarusians, read their newspapers and comments in them
      look at their policies - you will be angled
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 17 December 2019 12: 24 New
        -3
        Quote: Olezhek
        Chat with Belarusians, read their newspapers and comments in them

        I communicated, everyone with whom I spoke, all "FOR", only one "gurgled" something neurotic, there are such everywhere.
        1. SPQR
          SPQR 17 December 2019 14: 49 New
          +1
          Did they communicate on the forum? Do not talk nonsense))) Laughter takes.
        2. Yegorchik
          Yegorchik 17 December 2019 15: 17 New
          -3
          Quote: bistrov.

          I communicated, everyone with whom I spoke, all "FOR", only one "gurgled" something neurotic, there are such everywhere.
          Do not bring nonsense, Belarusians do not go .. you to exchange real products in their stores for palm oil crafts from the Russian authorities.
    3. shmelik45
      shmelik45 17 December 2019 11: 47 New
      +3
      If you hold a referendum in Belarus on joining Russia, I’m afraid you will be extremely unpleasantly surprised by its results, unfortunately, including mine
      1. SPQR
        SPQR 17 December 2019 14: 48 New
        +1
        I think 30 percent will still be in favor. But about 60 is definitely against it. Don’t say that, but the generations that grew up under the Union are leaving.
        1. Olezhek
          17 December 2019 19: 41 New
          +1
          I think 30 percent will still be in favor. But about 60 is definitely against it. Don’t say that, but the generations that grew up under the Union are leaving.


          As well as the remnants of the Soviet economy on which "independence" was based
          As the Russian market leaves ...

          But seriously - the meaning of the article is that Crimea is one way, RB is the other
          Something like this ... request
      2. Kronos
        Kronos 17 December 2019 14: 52 New
        -5
        Why do Belarusians need Russia? To be robbed as Russians as well?
        1. Winnie76
          Winnie76 17 December 2019 18: 34 New
          +6
          Quote: Kronos
          Why do Belarusians need Russia? To be robbed as Russians as well?

          Why do Belarusians go to Russia to earn money? The stalls are already full. Blow your nose at the intersection - you will fall into the Belarusians. Not otherwise masochists without exception
      3. Winnie76
        Winnie76 17 December 2019 18: 40 New
        +6
        Quote: shmelik45
        If you hold a referendum in Belarus on joining Russia, I’m afraid you will be extremely unpleasantly surprised by its results

        I will gladly accept any result. The whole country flounders in the ice hole and at the same time manages to beg. I really want certainty
    4. SPQR
      SPQR 17 December 2019 14: 51 New
      -2
      I was born in Minsk, like my parents and grandmothers. Where can you tell me to go, "smart guy"?
      He was going to join.
      Tie with alcohol.
    5. VeteranVSSSR
      VeteranVSSSR 18 December 2019 08: 52 New
      -3
      Quote: bistrov.
      Belarus definitely needs to be annexed to Russia. To do this, you need to hold a real referendum, I am sure that the majority of the population will speak out in favor of joining Russia. And whoever disagrees, let them bring them to their own Europe, who have moved from Crimea, who did not want to go to Russia to the continental "Ukraine" and now they are angry on social networks from afar ... Spit on their screams - the dog barks, and the caravan moves on.

      A referendum needs to be held in Russia ...
  8. nikolai.kolya
    nikolai.kolya 17 December 2019 08: 16 New
    -5
    Come on ... China has already poured 500 million greens. RB needs a sponsor, nothing personal - just business. If the eastern "partners" want their zone of influence, they will sponsor Belarus for the required amounts without any problems
    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 08: 24 New
      +2
      C'mon ... China has already poured 500 million green


      Actually it was credit

      RB needs a sponsor, nothing personal - just business. If the eastern "partners" want their zone of influence, they will sponsor Belarus


      Sasha has been dreaming about it for 10 years.
      so far unsuccessfully
      1. vvvjak
        vvvjak 17 December 2019 08: 52 New
        0
        Quote: Olezhek
        Sasha has been dreaming about it for 10 years.
        so far unsuccessfully

        Well, I wouldn't say that. Toll roads between regional centers, a high-tech park "Great Stone", factories, a city for 300 thousand inhabitants and logistics centers near Minsk, etc. The Chinese have been "digging in" in Belarus for a long time and firmly.
        1. Olezhek
          17 December 2019 09: 01 New
          +2
          Toll roads between regional centers, a high-tech park "Great Stone", factories, a city for 300 thousand inhabitants and logistics centers near Minsk, etc.


          "Great Stone" is a huge warehouse of Chinese goods
          oh sorry, "logistics center"
          Factories - all Belarusians swear there - they push outdated equipment on credit at overpriced prices
          It also does not always work.
          But credit must be paid to China

          Beijing is not going to contain Lukashenko’s regime.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. vvvjak
            vvvjak 17 December 2019 09: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: Olezhek
            Factories - all Belarusians swear there - they push them on credit at inflated prices

            Belarusians swear that the loans are "tied", and that all the cats and dandelions have disappeared in the city (for example, Dobrush).
            Quote: Olezhek
            Beijing is not going to contain Lukashenko’s regime.

            But this is true. So far, Lukashenko continues to contain Russia.
            1. soloveyav
              soloveyav 17 December 2019 14: 18 New
              +1
              In fact, Alexander Grigorievich knows how to cash out target loans - there was such a BeST operator, organized just for the target loan, sold very quickly and became life.
  9. awdrgy
    awdrgy 17 December 2019 09: 34 New
    0
    The Slavic peoples must be united, otherwise they will go down in history. One by one, they will break everyone, this is a fact. What should be a single state is the main question in Belarus and in Russia. "on the other hand," separatists "Yes, these are all Slavic states" self-proclaimed "because the" separatists "did it themselves because they separated from each other And note in all cases of" separation "over the centuries (starting with pre-state formations), the role of separators played "elite" whose interest can be expressed by the phrase - "he himself wanted to rule and own everything" It is impossible to deny the role of the "neighbors" who in every possible way fueled such sentiments of the "elite" turn the "winner" into a vassal and assimilate at least culturally. Those who understand this will always eat Inenie Those who do not understand are fools And those who are already in their souls "assimilated" with other peoples and sees the future of their children as part of another cultural community will always find justification for their "separatism" (as always, they put pressure on economic factors, they say "it is more satisfying there")
    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 12: 08 New
      +3
      Moreover, the scheme is always the same - to divide to create a conflict situation to help one of the parties to the conflict then to turn the weakened "winner" into a vassal and assimilate at least culturally Those who understand this will always be for unification Those who do not understand are fools


      Sure, not a problem.
      I am completely for unification.
      BUT, all the buns and preferences are only AFTER the union.
      And we sit, wait, at least 20 years, at least 50.
      1. awdrgy
        awdrgy 17 December 2019 12: 17 New
        0
        We can not wait but about "how to solve this technically (this is about when the buns and the problems, too, this cannot be denied) - an agreement is signed where everything is agreed. But for this it is necessary to really work in this direction because water does not flow under a lying stone
        1. Olezhek
          17 December 2019 13: 54 New
          0
          We can not wait but about "how to solve this technically (this is about when the buns and the problems too, this cannot be denied) - an agreement is signed where everything is agreed


          Lukashenko then wraps fat in such agreements
          1. awdrgy
            awdrgy 17 December 2019 14: 02 New
            -1
            This is not a cooperation agreement — it is an association, but there were no such agreements with Belarus and there are no similar ones either. Actually, they haven’t been with anyone over the past 30 years (Crimea was not yet an independent state)
      2. Victorio
        Victorio 17 December 2019 12: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Olezhek
        Sure, not a problem.
        I am completely for unification.

        ===
        if the rf with the economy had some pluses, then you would be in line for those who wish
        1. awdrgy
          awdrgy 17 December 2019 14: 15 New
          +4
          And there won’t be more pluses, they won’t give. Union of the Slavs is the worst nightmare our opponents can imagine. They will do everything to prevent this from happening (and they will) Because such a state automatically becomes a leader on the planet with all the ensuing consequences. Moreover, if if Russia had no nuclear weapons, such a task in the current conditions would be even theoretically impossible and exist as an error
        2. Winnie76
          Winnie76 17 December 2019 18: 54 New
          +4
          Quote: Victorio
          if the rf with the economy had some pluses, then you would be in line for those who wish

          To paraphrase - "some pluses" only in the savings bank.
          You might think that the economy of Belarus has a great choice. There are practically no raw materials. The market for products only in the Russian Federation. Sadly somehow.
  10. Ros 56
    Ros 56 17 December 2019 10: 03 New
    +2
    Slowly, energy prices should be set for Europeans by Belarusians (Europeans, it’s time to get used to it) and for the sake of Christ the flag is in their hands. Well, customs duties are for everyone (again, Europe). And as you like, give some water to drink, otherwise you want to eat like that, there’s nowhere to spend the night. The tribal giants there are already beginning to squeak, but as we did, nor the transit of Russian, EU funding cut by 30%, and you need to eat hotstsa, and even have a gobble on Russia, so we guessed. This is freedom of choice.
    1. SPQR
      SPQR 17 December 2019 14: 45 New
      -2
      We will gradually raise rental prices for all military facilities of the Russian Federation (and there are quite a few of them here). We will return the border and customs. We will raise tariffs for the transit of goods and oil. So dear for our "drink and eat" do not worry. We will not be lost.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 17 December 2019 15: 52 New
        +4
        We do not worry, but wonder at human stupidity. Look at your budget, look at the tribal giants, where their population has gone, the former Ukraine.
        We are not against you, we are for being together, which is incomprehensible here. And as for military facilities, they primarily do not give the striped impudence and you are protected by and large.
      2. Olezhek
        17 December 2019 17: 22 New
        +3
        Slowly, all military facilities of the Russian Federation (and there are not a few of them) will raise rental prices.


        1 How would you not quite guess about the absence of the Belarusian army in nature?
        There is no sovereignty without an army
        Gobble up
        And there are two pieces of Russian military facilities there

        2
        We will return the border and customs


        So, as a matter of fact - Russia is only "for" with the shrimp-apple "business"
        time to tie

        3
        Raise the tariffs for the transit of goods, oil.

        And here RB is not a monopolist
        By the way - look how similar actions ended for Ukraine
        Spoiler - termination of transit trade through it

        4
        So dear for our "drink and eat" do not worry. We will not be lost

        I really hope for the cessation of raids in Moscow / Sochi for money.
  11. New Year day
    New Year day 17 December 2019 10: 34 New
    -2
    ... a significant part of the elites and population of Ukraine either supported this reversal, or at least did not seriously protest.

    And in Russia, how did people protest against Yeltsin?
    ... Ukraine is not quite Russia, all today's regrets of some Ukrainians are "tactical" regrets, they say, something went wrong. If the population of Ukraine was categorically against, the Maidan would be impossible. Miracles do not happen.

    So it is in the USSR! The population of the country came out against Yeltsin and the Bialowieza Agreements - there would not be today's realities.
    So that the author casts a shadow on the wattle fence - the development of society in the former republics of the USSR follows the general laws and nothing is alien to us.
    If the author understands this, then he will not moan in Belarus.
    ... Donetsk "flew" from Ukraine due to the very unprofessional and aggressive actions of the new authorities. But Crimea was clearly, unequivocally and categorically against from the very beginning.

    Again the wrong message: there was aggression against Crimea, and it was this factor that affected the choice of Crimeans.
    Burned buses and killed Crimeans near Korsun
    ,
    policemen were killed in Kiev by Maidanites, "friendship trains".

    That is why the Crimea became Russian
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 December 2019 11: 21 New
      0
      Before that, they have been spread rot there for 20 years. It’s just that in 2014 they started shooting.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 17 December 2019 11: 46 New
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        Before that, they have been spread rot there for 20 years.

        do not speak
  12. Engineer
    Engineer 17 December 2019 10: 43 New
    -2
    In Belarus, the topic of contradictions along the lines of Russians - Belarusians is actively promoted and incited.

    Author's projection as a mechanism of psychological defense laughing
  13. Olezhek
    17 December 2019 11: 01 New
    +2
    Pavel Sevyarynets during the rally against integration on December 7.




    Belarusian opposition to Russian citizens: we urge you not to encroach on someone else's independence
    Read more: https://news.tut.by/economics/665286.html


    Yes, not a question ... we need your "nezalezhnost"
    1. SPQR
      SPQR 17 December 2019 14: 41 New
      +1
      We need her. And please do not distort the Belarusian language. This shows the level of your culture and education.
  14. Victorio
    Victorio 17 December 2019 12: 42 New
    0
    If the population of Ukraine was categorically againstMaidan would be impossible. There are no miracles. But it did. And about the same as fractions of different densities are separated in a powerful separator, so after the Maidan the protest (and a decisive protest) went just in the Crimea, and, oddly enough, in the Donbass (strange, because Donetsk is the base of those same “Donetsk "). So there, in the Donbass, everything was “not so clear” until 2014.
    ===
    how many are against, and how many are unknown. zapadentsy and Crimea rose, because there and there stood behind force and organization, and therefore this could happen in Kharkov, Odessa and others. another thing is how to pull it all economically.
    and judging by what is happening in the brains of the younger generation, then it’s time to worry not about Belarus and Kazakhstan, but about the future of the Russian Federation itself.
    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 13: 20 New
      +3
      how many are against, and how many are unknown. zapadentsy and Crimea rose, because there and there stood behind forces and organization


      How would Putin even be ready to send troops ... but Ukraine did not rise

      and judging by what is happening in the brains of the younger generation, then it’s just right to worry not about Belarus and Kazakhstan But about the future of Russia itself.


      Frantically plyusuyu!
      First of all, you need to think about your country.
      1. Victorio
        Victorio 17 December 2019 20: 56 New
        -1
        Quote: Olezhek
        how many are against, and how many are unknown. zapadentsy and Crimea rose, because there and there stood behind forces and organization

        How would Putin even be ready to send troops ... but Ukraine did not rise

        ====
        I think if Putin thought to send troops or was ready, he would have entered. then both the sick and the recumbent would rise.
  15. gurzuf
    gurzuf 17 December 2019 12: 46 New
    0
    Crimea - I didn’t run anywhere! Crimea was waiting. It was Russia that was waiting for when it was ripe for his return. And in the 14th year, Russia-ripened!
  16. krvl
    krvl 17 December 2019 13: 54 New
    -1
    Do you know why Belarusians do not want either Europe or Russia? I'm not talking about Lukashenko, but about the results of the polls. Because Belarus used to be the assembly shop of the USSR. She did what was ordered from what was given. And now nobody offers anything like that.
  17. SPQR
    SPQR 17 December 2019 14: 39 New
    0
    It is "clever" in quotation marks to compare independent Belarus with the Crimean region (autonomy) within Ukraine. Crimea is ahead of Belarus - what nonsense)))) Nobody wants to be part of Russia. Yes, there was a referendum in 1996, people voted for an alliance with the Russian Federation, essentially nostalgic for the USSR.
    Maybe at that moment they would vote for joining the composition, but not now. Since 1991, a generation has already grown, born in an independent country. It will be difficult for them to understand why we should now become part of another country.
    1. Olezhek
      17 December 2019 15: 18 New
      +4
      It is "clever" in quotation marks to compare independent Belarus with the Crimean region (autonomy) within Ukraine. Crimea is ahead of Belarus - what nonsense)))) Nobody wants to be part of Russia.


      So what about Crimea? Did he "not aim"? And where is the standard of living now higher, in the Crimea or in the Republic of Belarus?


      And yes, can independent Belarus fight as Donbass fights?
      Tell us how the salute was arranged on Independence Day.

      already grown, born in an independent country. It will be difficult for them to understand why we must now become part of another country.


      The main thing is that they understand how to pay the sovereign debt of Belarus.
      1. SPQR
        SPQR 17 December 2019 15: 23 New
        -1
        We will pay, we are not Cuba, not Vietnam and not Venezuela. We are not counting on writing off debts.
        1. Olezhek
          17 December 2019 17: 26 New
          +3
          We will pay, we are not Cuba, not Vietnam and not Venezuela. We are not counting on writing off debts.


          And rightly so.
          An independent power is required to pay bills
          That's just the whole year RB tried to get a loan from Russia
          It didn’t burn out - they ran to the Chinese

          What - to pay ... what are you talking about? belay

          RB Toko is gaining loans ...
      2. SPQR
        SPQR 17 December 2019 15: 25 New
        -3
        The standard of living in the Crimea? Are you seriously? Belarus is a European country, unlike your collective farm Crimea.
        So the standard of living has risen in your Crimea that tear three skins from Russian tourists? Probably only due to this and rose.
        It is necessary to adopt experience.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 18 December 2019 00: 53 New
          0
          Well, if you are so European and independent it’s enough to go round the Russian Federation, return our money, planes and bring us to Europe, collect apples and need to clean the apples for the Polish panam, and forget the way in the Russian Federation!
      3. SPQR
        SPQR 17 December 2019 15: 28 New
        +1
        Independence Day fireworks? They decided to speculate on the tragedy - the death of a person, oh, how low it is. The dialogue with you is over.
        1. Olezhek
          17 December 2019 17: 32 New
          +3
          Independence Day fireworks? They decided to speculate on the tragedy - the death of a person, oh, how low it is. The dialogue with you is over


          I know most of all I like to look at running water, burning fire and Belarusians talking about high morality. laughing

          Russian military regularly and independently launch ballistic missiles
          Belarusians on Independence Day were not able to launch a cracker -
          a woman died.

          Next (go to the highest morality)
          Two civilian representatives of a fireworks manufacturer from Russia were arrested
          None of the valiant Belarusian military was arrested

          They really are not able to launch a cracker
          professionals ..
  18. Karaul73
    Karaul73 17 December 2019 15: 52 New
    -2
    Quote: Sentry73
    The cunning Lukashenko has been making this choice for more than twenty years. He cannot make the final choice and take sides. Opponents instantly crush.
  19. Old Orc
    Old Orc 17 December 2019 16: 43 New
    -1
    You speak very beautifully, exalted, spiritually, patriotic. BUT you do not sufficiently note such a question as. MONEY. The reason for the coup in Kiev. The increase in Russian gas prices led to a decrease in profits earned by Ukrainian oligarchs. and naturally to the search for other sources of financing.
    The result: Western-oriented oligarchs receive promises of preference and make a coup. In the east, the entire economy is built on interaction with Russia, so the transition to the west is the death of enterprises, unemployment and hunger. Therefore, people began to speak intensively. In Crimea, the situation is similar. Most vacationers from Russia. Moving west is the construction of NATO bases and the Crimean Tatar redistribution of property, which leads to a loss of earnings. nobody can rest there, therefore unemployment and hunger. Russia took advantage of the situation and annexed Crimea. The truth must be said. Now Crimea is like the Baltic republics in the interim USSR. and naturally not interested in change. The situation with Belarus is similar. The economy is tuned to Russia, but the recent actions of the Russian leadership lead to financial losses. And Belarus is losing its incentive to work with its eastern neighbor. And it can be seen from there that the talks about integration are the main issues, the redistribution of property and Belarusian enterprises in favor of the Russian oligarchs. And since Minsk is located outside the Moscow district, he will not have money after the merger. And now they live in Minsk much better than Pskov or Vladimir. Now explain the meaning of integration with Russia. But with Moscow they would probably be ready to integrate, but with Russia it makes sense.
    1. ship
      ship 18 December 2019 15: 54 New
      +1
      Poor and primitive "money analysis". Especially impressive - ". And now people live in Minsk much better than in Pskov or Vladimir. Now explain the meaning of integration with Russia." it is, allegedly, Russia has nothing to do with it. Arrogance and stupidity are just off the charts.
      Is the Old Orc still in high school?
  20. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 18 December 2019 00: 51 New
    +1
    It’s obvious that the RB of Russia is not a friend and not an ally ... Once they call the return of Crimea to Russia an annexation, then it’s time for the Russian Federation to close the border with the Republic of Belarus, and let Lukashenko ask Kiev for loans, discounts and jobs for his ... How Professor Preobrazhensky said - You can’t serve two gods ... Minsk made its choice and it is not in Russia's favor ... Minsk only needs a freebie from Russia, they don’t want to unite with the Russian Federation ..
    1. Alexga
      Alexga 18 December 2019 11: 24 New
      0
      "It is quite obvious that the RB of Russia is not a friend or an ally ... Since the return of Crimea to Russia is called annexation, then it is time for the Russian Federation to close the border with the RB ..." And let me know who says that - "annexation." Only reasonably, please.
      1. Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 18 December 2019 12: 44 New
        +2
        Enough of your evil Luka, who follows in the footsteps of Yanukovych ... If you don’t see this, or don’t want to notice, these are your problems, and I don’t want my country to spend its money on Russophobia-affected independent countries of the former union
        1. Alexga
          Alexga 18 December 2019 13: 35 New
          -2
          Blah blah blah! I asked for reasoned. Although it seems that you are the mouthpiece of the State Department, Soros, or, God forbid, Poroshenko, you can not answer. And so everything is clear.
        2. Olezhek
          18 December 2019 17: 25 New
          +1
          and I no longer want my country to spend its money on Russophobia-sick independent countries of the former union


      2. Fibrizio
        Fibrizio 18 December 2019 13: 03 New
        -1
        In the Russian Federation there is a criminal article related to the violation of territorial integrity. Therefore, the Russian Federation believes that the country is indivisible and in no way can be divided.
        And in relation to other countries, this is ignored. International and national law are also there.

        So listen, if Ramzan wanted to become part of the UAE or the United States, for example, the Russian Federation would sit and look at foreign troops in Chechnya (helping unfortunate Aborigines) and holding a referendum. And then the State Duma officially formalized the withdrawal of the republic from the Russian Federation.
        Sounds like a fairy tale, right?
        1. Bear040
          Bear040 18 December 2019 22: 57 New
          -1
          The Russian Federation has not taken a meter of the land from the former republics of the USSR, so you will return what you grabbed, it’s not yours and it’s not there for you to command ...
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. iouris
    iouris 20 December 2019 12: 21 New
    0
    In the photo are all residents of the Republic of Belarus or part?
  23. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 2 January 2020 20: 38 New
    0
    It would be better if Belarusians were left alone with their integration. So that Belarus and the rest would like to join us, we must first create a normal state for ourselves, and this is also attractive for others. And there’s no reason for anyone to change their oligarchs and burglars of bureaucrats of embezzlers ... So, our players play along while it’s profitable, our strategists will begin to put pressure and Lukashenko will have to be taken out so that he doesn’t rush to the guard from Poland with saviors :)