In China, about Motor Sich: “We managed to seize the pearl of engine building from the USA and the Russian Federation”

The Chinese press published material stating that Tianjiao Aviation Industry Investment Co (Skyrizon Aircraft) and Xinwei Group (both China) receive a controlling stake in the Ukrainian manufacturer Motor Sich.

It is noted that the deal involves obtaining a stake at a price of about 250 million dollars. Chinese firms will “invest” these funds in the plant within two years.

Initially, Ukraine did not comment on these statements, which were published in the Chinese press. However, now in Ukroboronprom, the sale to the Chinese of more than 50% of Motor Sich shares has been confirmed. The corresponding statement was made by the head of Ukroboronprom Aivaras Abromavichus. Permission for the transaction was granted by the Ukrainian Antimonopoly Committee.

Recall that earlier the proposal to acquire Motor Sich came from the United States. At the same time, negotiations were ongoing between Ukraine and China - against the backdrop of US attempts to hinder the deal. This interpretation is published by the Chinese media. Russia also claimed for Motor Sich.

Now in China they are pleased to note that the deal has taken place and add: “We managed to seize the real pearl of the aircraft engine industry from Ukraine from the USA and Russia.”

It is noted that now in China "work on the creation of the engine of a transport aircraft Y-20 can significantly accelerate. We are talking about a plane that made its first flight in 2013. According to plans, 4 WS-18 engines should be installed on it. Also in China, they intend to create a new helicopter engine for their army aviation.

Comments

[SSR]

Russia also claimed for Motor Sich.

It’s no longer a secret.
Part of the "mother-of-pearl" from Motor Sich has been migrating to the Russian Federation since 2008 (they made a roof for the workshop). Yes, the Chinese will get access, yes it will be a leap for them, but they will not get the best, it is gone.

[cniza]

If so, then this is good, but the leftovers are sweet ...

[bessmertniy]

Well, we stayed with some interests, and the Americans, because of their greed, broke off completely. Probably, they hoped for the complete loyalty of Ukraine and the cession of the enterprise for pennies.

[cniza]

The United States, of course, is still twitching ... will continue to do harm.

[Gogia]

I was told how Americans in the 14th year rode around the enterprises of Ukraine, incl. KB Yuzhnoye, production in Kiev where GOS was made, Motor Sich, etc. They pointed with a finger "This is what we want" and they were immediately loaded ... Moreover, they even managed to give the documentation - these are the Freaks with the letter "M" Well, just that all these factories were tightly stuck in the 90s ...

[dorz]

Quote: Avior

And the equipment is all very cumbersome to quietly migrate - test benches ...

Americans and Chinese are interested in patents, unique technologies, and not old equipment. The main task for the United States is to prevent China from acquiring Soviet experience in engine building.

[Arthur 85]

Something tells us that in five years, patents (in the sense of copyright) will not interest anyone from the word at all.

[den3080]

Quote: Gogia

I was told how Americans in the 14th year rode around the enterprises of Ukraine, incl. KB Yuzhnoye, production in Kiev where GOS was made, Motor Sich, etc. They pointed with a finger "This is what we want" and they were immediately loaded ... Moreover, they even managed to give the documentation - these are the Freaks with the letter "M" Well, just that all these factories were tightly stuck in the 90s ...

In vain you were bombarded. How Americans in the 90s rode around secret objects and strategic objects throughout the USSR, but how a Marked Bear carried secrets and showed them to Margaret Thatcher, and then Borka drunk called / spoke ... friend Bill, and Clinton laughed out loud. ..
disgrace.
There was also a bunch of real traitors, team members, so to speak. Bakatin alone was worth something. This whole crowd can be more than one page ... enumerated.
So this disgrace continues in almost the entire post-Soviet space. With the exception of Russia and Belarus, perhaps.

[Vita vko]

Quote: den3080

So this disgrace continues in almost the entire post-Soviet space

Indeed, the massive leak of secret Soviet developments and "brain scientists" significantly weakened the scientific and technological potential of Russia in the 90s and early 2000s. But individual scientists physically cannot create scientific schools in the West capable of developing breakthrough projects, like any secret latest technology very quickly becomes obsolete and loses its relevance. Possibly for China MotorSich technologies have a high priority now. But knowing the policies of China and Ukraine, we can say with 100% probability that all key technological chains will be transferred to China in the next 5-10 years. Moreover, during this time they will become obsolete. The path of studying other people's technologies works well only in universities. For a serious scientific and technological impetus, it is necessary to create scientific schools, which is impossible in principle in Western and Ukrainian conditions. There is a hope that China will be able to lead the technological ranking in the future, as it was more than 2000 years ago in the days of Sun Tzu, but it is hard to believe.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Quote: den3080

and then Borka drunk called / spoke

Only Borka the Alkasha is given cents, already the second - in the Moscow City Commissariat, and Lenin at the Supreme - "Butovo training ground"

[orionvitt]

Quote: Gogia

Pointed with a finger "This is what we want"

I don’t know what the Americans were pointing at, but they quite officially bought engines from Motor Sich. Especially "78 car", that is, the latest TV3-117 modifications.

[opus]

Quote: Gogia

I was told how Americans rode in the 14th year

Yes, they have been there since 1992, at home.
Until 2014, everything you need was already known / received

[at84432384]

The Americans do not need a plant, but so that no one gets it at all and quietly dies.

[Zefr]

Probably hoped for the complete loyalty of Ukraine and the cession of the enterprise for pennies

And 250 million are not pennies?
Although...
If you consider that it’s not a penny, but a penny ... then apparently, it’s even good for someone ...

[SSR]

Quote: cniza

If so, then this is good

It's just that many forget about the orazhevoy revolution and the attitude of the Ukrainian government to Russia, how their government behaved in 2008, ours even then began to "take out" all the most, everything that was not taken out backfired in 2014 and the second "wave" began. Over these 10-11 years, they sank to the fullest, Kamrad works in ukraerospace, and he still spoke in 2015, drag them around exhibitions as a technique and try to sell everything from their arsenal of possibilities, but it's getting more and more complicated.

[orionvitt]

Quote from S.S.R.

how their power behaved in 2008

Suffice it to recall how Tymoshenko threatened to "shut down this aviation circle" (quote). Since almost the entire team of Motor Sich had extremely anti-Maidan sentiments, perfectly understanding how this threatens the enterprise. But in the end they waited in 2014.

[Amin_vivec]

Technique in the hands of an Indian ...

[Avior]

I read it more than once, but for some reason all the time without details
Worked on the motor in Soviet times.
And friends still work there, I asked them on occasion, they do not confirm, as well as the fact that the staff left for Russia, which I also read
I don’t understand what could have “migrated” there?
Boguslaev managed to keep all key production facilities in place, which is not very typical of post-Soviet Ukraine
And the equipment is all very cumbersome to quietly migrate - test benches, difficult-shaped casting of titanium, etc.
Can you specifically write what migrated, give a link, or, like me, read only "in general"?

[Edik]

There was only information about the invocation by our defense industry of specialists from Motor Sich and the provision of benefits in Russia! How many of them moved is not known The fact that China will rise strongly in engine building is certainly unambiguous! But they will still lag an order of magnitude, since I do not think that Ukraine has been investing in the development of a new one all these years after the disaster!

[Avior]

According to the current workers of the plant, if they transferred, then only a few, and in fact none of those whom I asked, could not name a single person who is known to have moved to Russia
So I wonder, is there objective evidence of this?
I have not found anywhere

[Edik]

Quote: Avior

So I wonder, is there objective evidence of this?
I have not found anywhere

We will not find the objective, since we were mainly interested in the brains, and they won’t talk much about it.

[Avior]

What kind of "brains"?
Is it a technologist, designer, or who else?
So there are not so many of them at the key moments of production, everything in sight, it was known that they moved
And there are enough ordinary technologists in Russia

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Avior

And there are enough ordinary technologists in Russia

And there are enough unusual ones.
There is nothing unknown to Russia there.

Americans need to destroy the Soviet manufacturer.

The motor worked for Russia.
Americans do not need motor products. To put it mildly.

The Chinese are buying everything. But this does not mean at all that the Ukrainians will benefit from this deal. Short-term loot no more.

The Chinese prefer to produce in China. So that the Ukrainians will remain with nothing.
Well, they will tell each other that no one has gone anywhere and that this is a victory for the Ukrainian population.

[Vladimir16]

Quote: lis-ik

Let's just say frankly, prosrali in modern Russia

Do not soar nonsense.

What is the collapse of the defense in Russia?

[opus]

Quote: Vladimir16

What is the collapse of the defense in Russia?

-brain

The innovative breakthrough of Israeli high-tech companies in world markets was facilitated by the massive Russian-speaking immigration of the 90s.

machine tool industry
-electronic base of the category millitary / space = buy in China
-engineering (marine)
-aviastroenie: composites / engines (aircraft / helicopters)
- UAVs developed by the Russian military-industrial complex during the Soviet period, whose technical and technological characteristics exceeded the US ones, were made by the Soviet Union in the 1970s. one of the world leaders in the design of UAVs .... now we are buying licenses from Israel
laser systems
-technologies for the mass construction of ships, large (1st rank, aircraft carriers) including
-Aircraft military transport, civilian too
bearings.
project "Rickshaw" Design Bureau named after Makeev, OKB-52 "Taran"
Yes, a bunch of everything.
There was only one grandfather left in St. Petersburg (at the N-shipyard shipbuilding plant) who can pierce (or straighten — I do not know for sure) the shaft of the vessel / ship. He gets good money, because he is a monopolist.
will leave, who will do?

[antivirus]

move-get the Citizen of the Russian Federation --- one thing, and move on.5-1-2 g and return --- another. watch work.
experience also costs money and time

[Avior]

Can you name the people who worked like this?
At the Motor I was told that they do not know

[CommanderDIVA]

So that they can then be brought to the site "Peacemaker"?

[antivirus]

I am not associated with the aviation industry
but screaming that he traveled to betray cochland and secrets (this is really necessary for 30 -50 years of development) no one will be Muscovites

At Motor, they told me that they don’t know such people-- and there they wear collars when leaving the checkpoint and, especially, leaving for the Russian Federation?

[Alex Fox]

Can you name people on Motor who told you that they don’t know such people? or take your word for it.

[Serg koma]

Quote: Avior

According to the current workers of the plant, if they transferred, then only a few, and in fact none of those whom I asked, could not name a single person who is known to have moved to Russia

“Nobody knows for sure how many Ukrainian specialists and scientists came to work in our country,” the head of the Department of Industrial Economics of the Russian Economic University considers. Plekhanova Andrey Bystrov. “But at best, we can talk about hundreds, but not thousands of families.”
Thousands of specialists left for China -

The South Korean personnel search program has proven extremely effective. It was enough for a Ukrainian specialist to contact the Korean embassy, ​​and he was already provided with a visa, plane tickets and a salary for one month. The level of salary varied depending on the qualifications and usefulness of the employee: the average specialist $ 1500-2000 a month, the famous specialist $ 3000-4000.
China also joined the struggle for talented cadresusing roughly the same tactics as South Korea.
Navy expert Li Jie describes the work of the Chinese representatives at that time: it took a week to get there by train, they traveled from Manchuria through Siberia and Moscow, and then they got to such CIS countries as Ukraine. They found out the situation met with people, very quickly figured out in which technological areas cooperation could be developed. After that, a large group of Ukrainian experts was immediately recruited, taken to the PRC and introduced there into concrete projects.

13.02.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX Huanqiu Shibao, China (excerpts from the article "China owes its military successes to Ukraine")

[at84432384]

In the state media, it was definitely not. There were some guesses in unofficial internet publications. It’s even hard to imagine that "effective managers" could give ordinary people apartments, normal salaries, and solve pension issues. It is always welcome to invite representatives of TNK and "partners" to the Boards of Directors for billions of dollars in salaries.

[Sadam]

I don’t quite catch the phrase - an order of magnitude lag ... 30 years as there is no country, and when it all was created it was half a century ago ... we have this Lada without an upgrade for 50 years ... do they recreate completely stupid half-century technologies? there may be some kind of legal side of the patent, but again I’m sure that the turbines have gone far ahead

[SSR]

Quote: Avior

Can you specifically write what migrated, give a link, or, like me, read only "in general"?

You won’t believe it, but if I knew with details, I’m not a complete nerd to spread with details, but it’s precisely the technical and technological developments that have been obtained.

Quote from S.S.R.

2008, (roofing was done for the workshop).

After 08.08.08, our people had to overestimate a lot.
I did not write about the equipment, and the old one.

[Avior]

There are no top secrets there, according to the VK2500, the Motor helped to develop the technology on Klimov, but if necessary, they would have been established without it

[SSR]

Quote: Avior

There are no top secrets

Well, Kamrad, where is the "line" of a secret and a super secret?))
It’s a secret, and in Africa it’s a secret, at least commercial, even technological.
Not quite a "successful" example, but maybe enough to "understand" my thoughts.

In general, one steel part had to be imported, the manufacturing accuracy was 0.01 mm, five different workshops fought for six months, the accuracy was achieved and the result was negative, there is a "small" burr inside the "ring" that spoils everything and remove this burr with a product accuracy of 0.01 mm turned out to be problematic.
They are not imported, but ours are .... They scratched the turnips of the designer and the master for a long time))) until one snare paid attention to the microscope
It turned out that the foreigners in the manufacture of the part processed the product diagonally! And that’s it! Such a trifle, but how many nerves battered.
Moreover, they will not tell you anything about super-secrets. Yes, and what does it look like in the form of a patent or?))

[Stena]

Quote from S.S.R.

In general, one steel part had to be imported, the manufacturing accuracy was 0.01 mm, five different workshops fought for six months, the accuracy was achieved and the result was negative, there is a "small" burr inside the "ring" that spoils everything and remove this burr with a product accuracy of 0.01 mm turned out to be problematic.
They are not imported, but ours are .... They scratched the turnips of the designer and the master for a long time))) until one snab paid attention to the pictures taken under the microscope laughing
It turned out that the foreigners in the manufacture of the part processed the product diagonally! And that’s it! Such a trifle, but how many nerves battered.

What you described is a work on the qualifications of accuracy. We need a normal milling machine operator and not even the highest level (where accuracy and tolerance for microns are). This is if hand to hand do.
And if on the equipment with CNC - so the programmer is normal. And also - the necessary equipment.
The fact that your designers and craftsmen scratched their turnips for a long time indicates the quality of such specialists ...
According to the Motor Builder, he is Motor Sich - there is nothing unknown for us there. I agree with you in this matter. As well as there are no brains there, without which we can not cope here.
The Chinese are engaged in monkey labor. Like everywhere else in life.
They were sold shares - pieces of paper, on which (by decision of the board of directors) nothing can be received at all. At least 50% - at least 150%, but they are happy. The next divorce of the Chinese from our and Amer’s side. And we work, it seems, together. Our pretend that there is some kind of space technology on the Motor, and the Americans are creating the appearance of hype ....

[orionvitt]

Quote: Stena

They were sold shares - pieces of paper,

I'm wondering who sold the shares, let alone the controlling stake? Motor Sich is not a part of state-owned enterprises that can be disposed of, Ukroboronprom, but is an ordinary open joint-stock company, whose shares no one else has. Starting with the workers of the plant (they had them), third-party brokerage offices and ending with Motor itself, which massively bought its own shares from its own employees and on the side.

[Karaul73]

Yeah! Production of ship gas-turbine engines set up quickly? Launching a new product into production - you don’t have to drop bonnets. Sweat and nerves need to spend oh how much.

[SSR]

Quote: Sentry73

Sweat and nerves need to spend oh how much.

+)))
When we placed the order, we just heard it.

Quote: Stena

The fact that your designers and craftsmen scratched their turnips for a long time indicates the quality of such specialists ...

Maybe you didn’t read it very carefully?
1. The product was ordered by us, but five different companies made them.
2. The products were made with an accuracy of 0.01mm.
3. But they did not work! Do you understand? An accuracy of 0.01 mm was required. They were made, but did not work.
4. This "burr" was not 0.01mm, it was much smaller.
5. Yes, this little hindrance prevented the products from doing what they were intended for! And it does not appear if processing is "diagonal".

[30143]

Stuck then stuck ... And when
PD14 get lucky?

[orionvitt]

Quote: Avior

they do not confirm, as well as the fact that the staff left for Russia

I confirm. He himself worked at the "Motor", right up to the Maidan, and I do not know of a single good specialist who would have left for Russia in his specialty. But the technology, yes, they left. Moreover, a significant part of Motor's products was developed in Russia (then still the USSR). This is especially true of helicopter engines, which occupied a large share in the production of Motor Sich.

Boguslaev managed to save

He not only managed to save, but also invested huge amounts of money in the modernization of production, the purchase of the most modern equipment, machine tools and staff training. Which is not at all typical for post-Soviet Ukraine.

[Incvizitor]

It seems to me that the RF cream has taken off everything ...

The plant has already settled on the territory of Russia for a long time, which was a huge surprise for both failed potential buyers and newly-made sellers, into whose hands the power in Ukraine fell only very recently.

Such an unpleasant truth was voiced by Ukrainian political scientist Rostislav Ishchenko live. From his message, ex-customers have already learned that the largest aircraft engine manufacturing plant in Europe is on its last legs, which means that it’s only a little to “live”.
This is due to the fact that 3 years ago (in 2016), the owner of the plant, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, made the most important decision - to transport most of the enterprise to Russia. In addition, he decided to do it “quietly”, not particularly talking about such an unusual strategy for development (or salvation).

There is more about this http://gosnovosti.com/2016/11/Ukrainian-machine-building-moving/

[mintai_kot]

Hello everyone. Recently there was information that the main part of the technical documentation, drawings and T, D, 2015, tracks unknown to us, were taken to Russia

[g1v2]

Well, they’ll get the technology anyway. Although not all. Then they will receive specialists who will help them establish production in the PRC. Plus, ready-made in Ukraine. Thc for them is still beneficial. Of course, there is hope that the Americans will put pressure on their slaves and push the Chinese out of Ukraine, with the associated destruction of Motor Sich. But most importantly, namely access to technology. the Chinese got it anyway.

[venik]

Quote from S.S.R.

but they won’t get the best, it’s gone.

=========
Together with SPECIALISTS and TECHNOLOGIES !!!!

[orionvitt]

Quote from S.S.R.

but they don’t get the best, it’s gone

The best went to China, even before 2008. It's just that it's official now.

[d1975]

Yes, let it be better the way you write, the rest that will be and will be. The Chinese are not very strong for us, although they don’t teach us all that.

[Alien From]

Indeed, let them choke !!!! They dried out ...... what can I say .....)

[smart ass]

We bought a stake, and six months later the Nazis came to power and declared nationalization

[iouris]

This asset was sold to the Chinese.

[Wild_grey_wolf]

The main thing is skilled people and scientific heads, are they not in China and so, but someone in Russia. It turns out that something else remains, maybe the documentation.

They began to take away the remains.

[alexmach]

The main thing is skilled people and scientific heads, are they not in China and so, but someone in Russia

There is never anything like that at all, and not only people, there is still production with customized processes, there is documentation, as you said. There probably still is something to take.

[Avior]

The people who write this can’t imagine what the key elements of production look like at the aircraft factory — test benches, specialized lines, etc.
Everything was visible and noticeable at once
Well, theoretically, equipment for some unreleased engines from a warehouse could be transferred, for example, but even that would have been known not at the rumor level
And according to the demanded products, this is generally unrealistic, it would be known right there

[Horon]

After the 90s, China's space program went up sharply, although factories and specialists remained in Russia. They were simply given the documentation for review, and "patience and work will grind everything!" The Chinese are patient!

[Alex Fox]

Quote: Avior

The people who write this can’t imagine what the key elements of production look like at the aircraft factory — test benches, specialized lines, etc.

And what does the factory documentation look like? stands and machines are all Soviet, we can do all this ourselves ....... Basically, documentation and brains have flowed into Russia. But at the expense of who and what does not know, not for you to judge, here many have seen, worked and know what a military plant is. The Ukrainians who moved to the city of Borisoglesk, Voronezh region at 711 ARZ-Aviation Repair Plant, were very surprised by the level of security, secrecy, checks, the ban on telephones with cameras, and much more ... According to them, they could easily take out the documentation from the research institute ... which Nii you probably want to ask. YES here I will tell you this, this is not Motor Sich ... This is Nii "Kvant" of the city of Kiev .. I cannot tell you the exact number of specialists of different classes, I know that they were there with other guys from LLC "Radionix", Kiev. .. how many I can not say, about 100 workers. Further, they dispersed to other factories and research institutes ... Someone remained ... But it is precisely according to the Sich Motr that I have no information, but I think the same situation ... Especially Seeing How we jumped into the electronic warfare combining Ukrainian developments and our it is clear that together we are invincible !!!!

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf

The main thing is skilled people and scientific heads, are they not in China and so, but someone in Russia. It turns out that something else remains, maybe the documentation.

They began to take away the remains.

All the documentation for the same TV3-117 was originally on Klimov, they created this engine there. Motor Sich is a production site first of all. For us, only D-18T can be of some interest at the moment. And so far we have NK-23D will not create.

[Wild_grey_wolf]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf

The main thing is skilled people and scientific heads, are they not in China and so, but someone in Russia. It turns out that something else remains, maybe the documentation.

They began to take away the remains.

All the documentation for the same TV3-117 was originally on Klimov, they created this engine there. Motor Sich is a production site first of all. For us, only D-18T can be of some interest at the moment. And so far we have NK-23D will not create.

This is the point of the whole question, what is the interest of China, what remains so important. If the article and the amount indicated is not large.

[Sky strike fighter]

China’s interest in taking cheaply what’s bad lies. Namely, the production technology of the same TV3-117, but the main thing is to make D-18T in China and not to buy the same D-30P in Russia. The Chinese need the technology of creating aircraft engines different power. If it is bad, why not take it?

[Brturin]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The Chinese need technology to create aircraft engines of various powers.

Russian Helicopters Holding and Avicopter have completed negotiations and agreed on all contract documents for the creation of a heavy helicopter. Now the contract is undergoing the approval procedure in the state bodies of the People's Republic of China ... We will make a transmission, a tail rotor and some other parts. will be transferred to China. In turn, the PRC is responsible for the implementation of the program as a whole, including design, construction of prototypes, testing, certification, production, as well as promotion of the helicopter to the market and overall coordination of work "- a spokesman for the Russian Helicopters press service ...
In 2017 - But last week, representatives of the Ukrainian company told the newspaper that they were working directly with the Chinese Avicopter and had already concluded contracts for the supply of a new AI-136T turboshaft engine - https://topwar.ru/109192-motor-sich-izgotovit-dvigatel- dlya-rossiysko-kitayskogo-vertoleta.html
In the light of recent events, where will the engines for the new helicopter be made? ...

[Sky strike fighter]

We will be making the transmission, tail rotor and some other parts. At the same time, technologies will be transferred to China. In turn, the PRC is responsible for the implementation of the program as a whole, including design, construction of prototypes, testing, certification, production, as well as promoting the helicopter to the market and overall coordination of work. "

With the money of China we will help create a helicopter for China. And let them bet on him if they want the Ukrainian engine. On our Mi-26T2 put PD-12V. Russia helps to create a Chinese helicopter. For example, we do not buy Russian-Indian Bramos for ourselves.

[Avior]

Well, let’s say there weren’t any technological maps on Klimov, it’s intramotor.
But the production technology of VK2500 at Klimov was created with the help of the Motor, and began with the assembly of kits made on the Motor, it’s true
But no equipment was transferred from Motor and personnel to Klimov

[Sky strike fighter]

Well, let’s say there weren’t any technological maps on Klimov, it’s intramotor.

For some modifications of TV3-117 from Motor Sich. But you can create your own modifications.

But the production technology of VK2500 at Klimov was created with the help of the Motor, and began with the assembly of kits made on the Motor, it’s true

Is not a fact. Import substitution at Klimov completed.

“We completely abandoned our dependence on the Ukrainian Motor Sich enterprise. According to the entire range of Klimov’s development and the projects that the company previously worked together with Ukraine, we are absolutely independent, ”says Vatagin. It was Motor Sich in the Soviet Union and Europe that for many years was the flagship of engine building. He created most of all engines for military, transport and civil aviation. But since 2014 (when the well-known events took place in Kiev), the volume of Russian orders for the company has decreased tenfold.
“At the moment, we do not see the future of Motor Sich. Once it was the flagship among the motor-building enterprises, the plant with the best equipment, which housed the production of the most massive engines. But time is running out. It is merciless. Equipment and technology become obsolete. The limited market and the political events that have taken place clearly have a detrimental effect on Motor Sich. Today it is far from the flagship and is not comparable with the Russian motor industry, ”said Alexander Vatagin, Executive Director of UEC Klimov.

https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/4026992.html

[antivirus]

still the museum would drag and storage areas like mummies and stuffed bears with mammoths

[loki565]

Ukraine was lucky, in the 90s we bought companies to bankrupt, we did not need rootkurs. And China really needs Motor Sich, they will invest in it.

[alexmach]

will invest in it

Can you name at least one company in which the Chinese would invest outside of China? For a couple of years, for a maximum of 5, they will completely re-take technologies, set up production at home and can be closed.

[loki565]

There are many examples, but mainly companies that sell Chinese products under their own brand, for example, the Rusich tractor, which is produced on the territory of the Russian Federation. Or the production of Hunt trucks in Miass, they also have joint production in Belarus.

[K-612-O]

Either the Chinese missile carriers began to resemble the MZKT strongly, and the PGRK abruptly appeared. And they are made in China, the Belarusians also pulled out the technology, though for an expensive price. And in Miass, BAZ cars were taken as the basis, but no one handed over the plant to the Chinese.

[alexmach]

but mostly companies that sell Chinese products under their own brand

And how does this relate to MotorSich?

[Non liberoid Russian]

China does not need a motor sich ... from the word completely ... deflate technology and specialists, and dosvidos, saw through what remains

[bessmertniy]

We can assume that for Ukraine these jobs have already been lost.

[Non liberoid Russian]

Yes, there is no sense of existence at all ... one kitchen utensils (pots) and sports disciplines (jumps) ... and specialists can easily settle in our factories, with limited access to technology and after checking for lice ... in Rybinsk, citizens are present, he personally communicated with peasants from there

[Incvizitor]

Everything has been lost there since 2014.

[krillon]

A few years ago, an article appeared on how Siemens made roads for high-speed trains and the trains themselves. After enough time for the adoption of technology, the Chinese began to produce similar on their own behalf to which the Germans were outraged. I think the negotiations were long, but the meaning is known, either swallow or out of the market. And given how China is developing, no one in their right mind will leave the market. And then we admire how clever they have come to everything. In fact, Europeans are working on them just like the others. Americans also participated in the formation of industry in the USSR, the name of Albert Kahn sure is familiar to many. And they did not work for the idea. So whoever sees the importance in their industry and production does not spare money. Previously, China was trailing behind everyone, but now it is a role model, the one whose friendship, read, many are looking for fins. Belarus, for example, takes a loan, it allowed the plants to be installed at home.

[Piramidon]

Quote: loki565

And China really needs Motor Sich, they will invest in it.

The main thing is that the Chinese do not allow Svidomo managers there.

[K-612-O]

It will not go further 250 million, the Chinese are building a plant to produce 1000 engines a year, with the involvement of specialists and Sich already. They deflate technology and personnel, just in 2 years, and thank you bye.

[bessmertniy]

On this trade in technology and rest. Sala is not necessary for China.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: loki565

China really needs Motor Sich, will invest in it

In a few years, technology will be transferred to China, key specialists will be transferred to China.
The further fate of Motor Sich and the bulk of the employees in dense fog are the Chinese who are not weak-witted to develop the high-tech production owned by only a few countries in the world outside of China.

[cniza]

In China, about Motor Sich: “We managed to seize the pearl of engine building from the USA and the Russian Federation”

Something tells me that everything is still ahead ...

[Mountain shooter]

The newest technologies, the most advanced ones, were not found at MotorSich. There were no "thermal barrier" coatings on the GT blades. Although there were attempts.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

The latest technology, the most advanced, on "MotorSiche" not found. There were no "thermal barrier" coatings on the GT blades. Although there were attempts.

To read, it’s direct not an enterprise, but a blacksmith on the outskirts ... And there is this:

 Show / Hide text

Turnover ▲ UAH 15,15 billion (2017)
Operating profit ▲ UAH 5,58 billion (2017)
Net profit ▲ UAH 3,1 billion (2017)
Number of employees ▲ 26 (985)

Compare with any KAMAZ?

Equity
40 764 000 000 ₽ (2017) [3]
Turnover ▼ RUB 97,46 billion (2015, IFRS)[1]
Operating profit ▼ -1,07 billion rubles. (2015, IFRS)
Net profit ▼ -2,38 billion rubles. (2015, IFRS)
Assets 160 ₽ (139)[000]
Number of employees 35 (730)[2017]
Parent company Rostec

I remember also Ivan Andreevich translated Aesop:

Tearing the pile apart
Rooster found Pearl Grain
And says:
"Where is it?
What a thing is empty!
Isn’t it silly that he is so highly valued?
And I, really, would be much more happy
Barley grain: it is not even visible,
Yes, satisfying. "
Ignoramuses are judged exactly like this:
What is the point they do not understand, then they all have nothing.

By the way, the Americans, organizing industrial production and creating electronic enterprises in China, also made plans, but it turned out differently.

[Mountain shooter]

Compare. Turnover is half as much.

Quote: ROSS 42

also made plans, but it turned out differently

Give the average salary in the enterprise. And over the years, from 13 to 18 years.
But actually, in fact, to object? I just wrote about the level of technology MotorSicha. His economy did not interest me much. But since the matter has come ... how is such a profitable enterprise, with a net profit of $ 120 million, sold for 250?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

But since the matter has come ... how is such a profitable enterprise, with a net profit of $ 120 million, sold for 250?

You know, when I was in the 70s talking with the blockers of Leningrad, when I listened to their stories (not on camera, but under a glass and a snack) ... They were only about one and a half to two decades old, even I had no doubt that a loaf of bread could cost some kind of gold jewelry with diamonds ... Or a kilogram of rice was exchanged for royal chervonets ...
I’m not a KAMAZ accountant for you, it’s a debit with a credit. I took it from the information posted on the company's website, and compared it to you for review. And you yourself, with your hands and eyes ...
We are not accustomed to treating ...

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: ROSS 42

We are not accustomed to treating ...

And what are accustomed to rudeness? Essentially something to say? I also have access to the materials of MotorSich JSC. And there is data on salaries at the enterprise. They practically did not change ... And the hryvnia fell three times! Profit is profit. Valuation of enterprises is usually carried out based on the total profit for 7-10 years.

[at84432384]

Well, this is the most important thing. To repeat the products of Motor Sich, it is necessary to drag hundreds of affiliate plants to China, including those from Russia. There is no high-tech production with a "closed" cycle at all. The Chinese AK could not repeat, what can we say about GT blades ...

[tihonmarine]

Now in China they are pleased to note that the deal has taken place and add: “We managed to seize the real pearl of the aircraft engine industry from Ukraine from the USA and Russia.”

And as if there was no Great Russia, and as if they had not lived together since 1654. Everything is forgotten, everything and family ties and friendship. Now new friends for only 250 lemons. You are not ashamed of the brothers!

[Zliy_mod]

I am so ashamed, after Crimea and Donbass, so ashamed, in truth, brothers ...
Who is Russia friends with? - Army, navy, vks?
After the capture of Crimea and pofigistic policy, after the collapse of the USSR, Russia itself made its choice, but we have no choice, it is better an obvious enemy than such a friend ...

[Dym71]

Quote: Zliy_mod

I am so ashamed, after Crimea and Donbass, so ashamed, in truth, brothers ...

It was the year 2012 .....

[aleksr2005]

Directly removed from the tongue! They themselves jumped with m @ a skalyak on a gilyak and thought that we would just look at it !?)) Get, sign - Crimea, Donbass.

[lucul]

I am so ashamed, after Crimea and Donbass, so ashamed, in truth, brothers ...

Was the collapse of the USSR legal? ))))

[bukhach]

Does someone call you to be friends with Russia? Remain better as enemies, for a really clear enemy is better than a secret one.

[Winnie76]

Quote: Zliy_mod

I am so ashamed, after Crimea and Donbass, so ashamed, in truth, brothers ...

What did the Holy Maidan stand for? For the journey to Europe, hence to NATO. And on which side did you fight in Georgia and Chechnya? Bring the "brothers" to Europe, they are waiting for you there

[Zliy_mod]

About how, I see here, I don’t see here, but wrapped it up in paper ... A good position is to ascribe to a handful of people the desires and actions of the whole people, it’s convenient and how - and so - all the Russians are bad and terrorists, because Chechens, etc. P. killed in Syria, from Russia means all the Russians are bad!
And let us dump to Europe in a cancerous position as slaves, anyway better than getting a stab in the back from the "brothers" again! Do you still miss Shaw? New Russia? Odessa, Kharkov, Dnieper? Let's organize, like the last time, the Maidan, to justify the next seizure, the navel will not break, surround yourself with enemies ???

[Winnie76]

Quote: Zliy_mod

A good position is to attribute to a handful of people the desires and actions of the whole people,

Man, in Nazi Germany, there were few ideological fascists either. A bunch in your terminology. Did it help much?
What difference does it make how many percent favored the TS 5 percent or 95 if at a critical moment these people shoved their tongue into a known place.

Quote: Zliy_mod

and so-all Russians are bad and terrorists, because Chechens, etc. killed in Syria, from Russia means all the Russians are bad!

What do you smoke?

Quote: Zliy_mod

And let us dump to Europe in a cancerous position as slaves, anyway better than getting a stab in the back from the "brothers" again!

Flag in hand and locomotive towards

Quote: Zliy_mod

Are you still missing? New Russia? Odessa, Kharkov, Dnieper?

If they consider themselves Russian - welcome, Europeans - good riddance.

Quote: Zliy_mod

Let's organize, just like the last time the Maidan, to justify the next capture,

Evo how. So we organized Euromaidan? And were Putin's agents shouting "Muscovite on knives"? And the portrait of Bandera was hung personally by VVP?

Quote: Zliy_mod

the navel will not tear, surround yourself with enemies ???

Do not tear. The second thousand years goes by.

[anykin]

Quote: Zliy_mod

Are you still missing? New Russia? Odessa, Kharkov, Dnieper? Let's organize as the last time Maidan

Everything mixed up, people, horses ...))) (

[Igoresha]

ascribe to a bunch of people desires

yes, zapadentsy under their ideology all Ukraine bent. even Santa Claus was banned

[awdrgy]

We are all ashamed and ashamed of the collapse of the Russian Empire and the development of separatism in the republics of the USSR and then of its collapse. I am ashamed that the inhabitants of Little Russia began to consider themselves Ukrainians ashamed of the fact that blood has already spilled and relatives are looking at each other through the sight. -is ashamed to change for the changing worldview of our children, fundamentally contrary to the worldview of their ancestors You are not looking for enemies

[Zliy_mod]

It shouldn’t be embarrassing for you, the son is not responsible for the father, I am not responsible for the Maidan and politics of Ukraine, it’s embarrassing for those who organized this massacre to the west and east of Ukraine ... The fact that Yanek sits in Russia with impunity and without investigation is the same Shaw Gorbachev abroad, both traitors of their countries. I think Yanek would have told a lot of interesting things specifically about the role of Russia in the Maidan ... But who will ask him? I do not believe in the joint future of Ukraine and Russia, the split went like a civil one. Little Russia is not and never will be, in Ukraine this word has always been a curse word.

[awdrgy]

And who says that this will be the future of Ukraine and Russia? The reality is that the Slavic peoples either have time to unite before a certain time or leave the historical arena like many peoples before them and will remain only in museums and possibly a few reservations (And what will this state be called if it is destined to be where its capital will be now can only guess and dream, the situation is extremely difficult. The whole Slavic world is in a deep crisis (from spiritual to material)

[anykin]

Quote: Zliy_mod

I think Yanek would have told a lot of interesting things specifically about the role of Russia in the Maidan ...

How did Kremlin agents force Nuland to distribute cookies?

[Zliy_mod]

As Kremlin agents advised not to do anything, and then dump Rostov ...

[Sailor]

And how did you get Crimea after the collapse of the USSR? I think you know that in 1992 there were two referenda in the Crimea, during the first I still puddled urgent and heard how the officers were indignant when they voted for an alliance with Russia, and the results were canceled and postponed the referendum for half a year.

[Souchastnik]

You are not ashamed of the brothers!

Unfortunately, they do not consider us as such. At least those in power.

[rocket757]

Question - And where are the former authorities who, although the people living in the territory they have seized, are friends?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Souchastnik

Unfortunately, they do not consider us as such. At least those in power.

So I ask not those in power, but those who are on our site.

[New Year day]

Quote: tihonmarine

So I ask not those in power, but those who are on our site.

And what to ask! There are precedents for such an attitude to each other that is akin to the attitude towards Bandera. And we live in one country

[at84432384]

Is the civil war in Russia over ?! It continues. So far, homegrown liberals have won the upper hand with the support of outsiders. From there and "battles" in social networks. But this is for now. As an idea, liberalism has already died and stinks vilely. Let's squeeze!

[lucul]

Unfortunately, they do not consider us as such. At least those in power.

Is there Ukrainians in power there)))

[at84432384]

Worse. In power, liberals - "citizens of the world", as they sometimes call themselves. Ivans do not remember kinship, if in Russian.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: ROSS 42

What Russian capitalists will become closer and dearer than the Chinese?

Capitalists do not have a nationality.

[knn54]

Kupuli not only technologies but also "specialists":
$ 1200 for an ordinary engineer with an experience of no more than five years, from $ 2500 for an engineer in a leadership position with experience of ten or more years. This saves China 10-12 years on the training of its own specialists, funds for their training and running-in. Over the past 20 years, Beijing has received inexpensively at least 3000 projects, mainly Soviet ones. In addition to aviation and naval equipment, Chinese specialists received from Ukraine the technology for the production of a 6TD diesel engine. Chinese experts successfully adapted the motor of the T-80UD tank to their own needs, creating, in cooperation with Pakistani colleagues, the main battle tank Al Khalid.
EVERYTHING is on sale. and it is not surprising: "Ukroboronprom" is headed by a citizen of Lithuania Aivaras Abromavichius, and his assistant is "gun-loader" Mustafa Nayem.

[svp67]

Quote: knn54

The Chinese specialists successfully adapted the T-80UD tank otor to their own needs, creating the main battle tank Al Khalid in cooperation with Pakistani colleagues.

But it didn't go further than that. China "slowed down" and engines and transmission elements from Ukraine went to all Al Khalids ... This is a real story.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: knn54

EVERYTHING is on sale. and it is not surprising: "Ukroboronprom" is headed by a citizen of Lithuania Aivaras Abromavichius, and his assistant is "gun-loader" Mustafa Nayem.

Ukrainians clean spill. And how many have already flown away such as Zharesko, Sakvashvili and how many more graze in Ukraine.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: tihonmarine

how many have already flown away such as Zharesko, Sakvashvili

I remember that the most intelligent, by the name (E) banoidze, fell off first.

[rocket757]

Sell ​​/ dissolve the remains, valuable ... and they will all blacken it up!
A typical situation for temporary workers.
Oh, how familiar this is.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

and they’ll sprinkle all this with chernozem!

We sell Ukrainian black earth at 80 euros per wagon.

[rocket757]

We sold soil from the reserve. They were sold by those who were supposed to guard (right across Zhvanetsky)! There were people who raised a scandal !!! Local authorities were forced to cover the matter, the reserve, the lands of federal subordination ....
Now only DAMAGE from farms, which in general is much better, although more expensive.

[MoJloT]

the deal involves obtaining a stake at a price of about $ 250 million.

Cool engine factory for the price of a mansion or a yacht ...

[evgen1221]

Cool and agree beautifully bred skakuazov.

[Piramidon]

Quote: MoJloT

the deal involves obtaining a stake at a price of about $ 250 million.

Cool engine factory for the price of a mansion or a yacht ...

This is not a factory price, but a shareholding price

[MoJloT]

This is not a factory price, but a shareholding price

So it is, but it does not change the essence.

[Piramidon]

Quote: MoJloT

So it is, but it does not change the essence.

If I buy a couple of shares of an enterprise for 200 rubles, then it turns out that the whole enterprise costs so much?

[MoJloT]

If I buy a couple of shares of an enterprise for 200 rubles, then it turns out that the whole enterprise costs so much?

No, if 50% of the shares + 1, usually you need to read the statutory documents. In this case, it seems like 50% of the shares + 1.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Piramidon

If I buy a couple of shares of an enterprise for 200 rubles, then it turns out that the whole enterprise costs so much?

The Chinese have a "controlling stake". With the ensuing consequences.

[Piramidon]

Quote: tihonmarine

The Chinese have a "controlling stake". With the ensuing consequences.

Of course, I am far from an economist, and even did not stand next to economists. But this does not mean that the value of the enterprise = the value of this package. But then they write here:

the deal involves obtaining a stake at a price of about $ 250 million.

Cool engine factory for the price of a mansion or a yacht ...

Can it be "chewed" on "worker-peasant", and not "bank-manager"? They are a lot to powder their brains. I have experience. I was not sickly thrown for 4 pieces when applying for a loan

[Kerensky]

Cool engine factory for the price of a mansion or a yacht ...

Well, most likely, they just bought up the shares to a controlling stake. So someone sold them?

[svp67]

It is noted that the deal involves obtaining a block of shares at a price of about $ 250 million.

Count for free.

“We managed to intercept the real pearl of aircraft engine building in Ukraine from the USA and Russia.”

And they are right, only this "pearl" not only of Ukraine, but also of Russia until recently ...

[Avior]

I would not really believe in the amount of 250 million
Motor Sich- private company
Ownership structure of Motor Sich is not simple, maybe it's just a way for Boguslaev not to pay taxes
The amount is clearly understated

[Igoresha]

why did your fellow countrymen Boguslaev ride this election, didn’t they say? however, my Kournes and Muraev (

[evgen1221]

Well, they wouldn’t be happy. A common practice is to take away from under the nose of a competitor what lies bad and make it beautiful. It is not a fact that the enterprise will work in principle, the hedgehog is understandable that like mattresses from those southern documents, they perl themselves and the Chinese will trample from the motor.

[askort154]

China builds in Chongqing, a plant for the production of structures
engines "Motor Sich".
They plan to assemble MG-500B-02G engines (based on MK-500), mainly for training aircraft. Motor Sich lost 40% of its profits due to a reduction in the supply of engines to Russia for the Russian Air Force. But still supplies
for civilians participating in the UN and the Ministry of Emergencies - Mi-26 and Be-200.
(from an interview with RBC in 2018, the former CEO of Motor Sich - Boguslavsky)

[Avior]

Construction in China stopped, there were reports

[Pustogolov]

Plants are selling. The land is being sold. Soon the villages with "slaves" will start selling.

[jekasimf]

But for some reason I don’t worry! I lived in Ukraine for 24 years. And I have no doubt that the Chinese will clutch their heads 100 times more from the Ukropov reality and mentality. Do not forget the saying "when a Ukrainian-Jew was born, he cried" ...


Ha! The site automatically replaces the word x_oxo_l with Ukrainian !!! Ahahah! Clownery. You can’t erase a saying from words!

[askort154]

jekasimf ......Ha! The site automatically replaces the word x_oxo_l with Ukrainian !!! Ahahah! Clownery. You can’t erase a saying from words!

Yes, someone in the editorial board of VO fiercely dislikes this synonym - Ukrainian.
But he exists for centuries in colloquial speech in the south of Russia.
"Cossack and ho .." (for persuasiveness, I print - X Ukrainian, but it turned out Ukrainian )

[Azimuth]

Well now, engines will be delivered from China to Russia. In principle, there is no difference who makes it, but its necessary. If we don’t pull, then cooperation with China, India, Turkey, where there will be the production of the final aircraft, helicopters.

[at84432384]

I have already encountered this. Interestingly, this is automatic, or editorial revision. Another word i-di-from (in relation to DAM) simply disappeared ...

[Strashila]

"Also in China they intend to create a new helicopter engine for their army aviation.", Who forbids them to hope.

[Avior]

you don’t need to create it, it is
TV3-117

[Strashila]

Available in series with 1972 years at ZPOM "Motorostroitel" now PJSC "Motor Sich", Zaporizhia, Ukraine. But the key is designed in 1965-1972 years in the OKB named after V. Ya. Klimov (Leningrad) under the leadership of S.P. Izotov and S.V. Lyunevich. So calco holder in St. Petersburg.

[Avior]

So what?
They were released on the Motor 25 thousand pieces, if not mistaken
Technology worked out in large batches
Drawings and production technology are two different things.
The main engine of most Soviet helicopters
A few years ago, Motor helped establish Production at Klimov
, but Soviet output is not nearly as you understand
As for age ....
Engine modifications have long gone from the original
Threat do you think on the Ka-52 which engine is?

[Strashila]

There are already Russian.

[Timx]

A few years ago, Motor helped establish Production at Klimov ...

There is no full-fledged production at Klimov and it is not planned)) There is SKD assembly, a race at the stands and handover to the customer! And the units are produced in Moscow (MMP Chernysheva and Salyut), in Ufa (UMPO) and Omsk (a branch of the Moscow Salute).
So, it is extremely doubtful that the Cossacks could help a lot - the Klimovtsy assembly (albeit in small batches) was still on the old site in the center of St. Petersburg ..

[NordUral]

Now in China they are pleased to note that the deal has taken place and add: “We managed to seize the real pearl of the aircraft engine industry from Ukraine from the USA and Russia.”


Of Ukraine !? No, the whole Union!
Recently, I was quite thinking about why the Ukrainian SSR had such a strategic production potential and why these institutions and industries did not develop in the RSFSR, in Siberia, for example.
And only after learning how the creeping Ukrainization of the Union’s power filled the key places in the party and the upper echelons of power, I understood why they were building in Ukraine.

[mlad]

For now we will buy engines for Ruslans through China

[Berkut24]

The Chinese in fact are eager not for managing the company but for documentation. And it doesn’t matter who Motor Sich condemns to death.
And as for Russia, firstly, technologically we have nothing to take from there, because There are some developments that are not inferior to them, and secondly, nobody would give us work there anyway. Russia is interested in manufacturers at home and not in Ukraine. One thing is bad - China will no longer buy engines from us for the remotorization of its equipment and, obviously, will become our competitor on this topic in the world.

[faterdom]

Quote: Avior

could not name a single person who is known to have moved to Russia
So I wonder, is there objective evidence of this?

In the SBU issued a task?

[Ros 56]

The funniest thing in this story is that Ukrainians will eventually buy motors from the Chinese, unless of course they need them.

[bk316]

unless of course they need them.

Why do they need motors?

[Karaul14]

Let me clarify the situation a little. Motor Sich has long been a private enterprise, only the permission to consolidate 50% of the shares in one hands was discussed, Ukroboronprom will be given 25% of the shares for this, at the moment he did not own them at all. State Enterprise Ivchenko-progress, which carried out most of the developments produced at Motor Sich, "no one sells and all patents remain with him.

[max1gu]

Actually, in order to get all the technologies of Motor Sich it is not necessary to buy all of it. The organizational structure is as follows: there is a KB Progress, which develops and tests engines, and there is a Motor Sich plant, which serializes its type.
The nuance is that all the design frames that the engine can develop are on KB Progress. Moreover, this design bureau incorporates a pilot production of a full cycle, where actually all the developed engines are initially produced individually.
And the most important thing - in the zero years, KB Progress was a separate enterprise, despite the fact that it was located on the territory of Motor Sich and had a common access control regime with it. And most importantly, due to the production base and design staff of KB, the progress in the 00s was more profitable than Motor - it was engaged in the overhaul of engines from around the world, while Motor could only produce them, but they weren’t for anyone are needed. 15 years ago, the average salary at Progress was 2 times higher than on a motor. Like the average age of workers. Motor has always been famous for its stable low salaries.
Therefore, the main activity of Motor Sich in the 90s and 2000s is raider seizures of property in Zaporozhye. About a third of the enterprises and companies of the city belong to the motor. There is (or was already) its own Motor Bank, its own insurance company Motor Garant vegetates. There is a holding sonator, managing several dozen half-dead enterprises, bought for a penny on the occasion. At the same time, in terms of management, Motor is a bunch of amateurs, sneakers and thieves.
The main project of the Motor in the mid-200s is the capture of KB Progress, as a real engine manufacturer.
Therefore, Boguslaev now does not need to sell the entire Motor to the Chinese - nobody needs him. It is enough to sell the remains of KB Progress as a complex for the development and production of engines.

[Avior]

The organizational structure is as follows: there is a KB Progress, which develops and tests engines, and there is a Motor Sich plant, which serializes its type.

The information you have is not entirely correct
Owner of KB Ivchenko-Progress-Ukroboronprom, that is, he is in state ownership
Motor-Sich- private
With Motor, these are completely different enterprises, a common fence is perhaps
All of these Progress sales have nothing to do with
You exaggerate the influence of Motor and Boguslaev, in Zaporozhye he has no such influence, there are enough enterprises without Motor, the same Zaporizhstal

[max1gu]

1. I will tell you a secret - in Ukraine, all distilleries are state-owned. That's just everyone knows which plant belongs to whom. It is important who puts the directors, who starts the raw materials and takes the products.
2. You probably Zaporozhye only seen on the map. This is a huge workers' village without the right to vote, which is sawn between large uncles, most of whom are abroad.
There are no longer any enterprises in Zaporizhia that could have any impact on anything.
Ukrgrafit, Zaporizhkoks, Refractory - these are all the adjacent Zaporizhstal. Zaporizhstal itself 5 years ago was sold to Akhmetov and now its number 125 in the structure of Metinvest and there is another reduction.
Aluminum was bought by Rusal and went bankrupt in 2008.
Ferroalloy is an asset of Kolomoisky, which means it works for slaughter and only he can afford it.
Titanium-magnesium - is undergoing an early nationalization and it is not clear when it will go bankrupt in order to privatize again.
Zaporozhtransformator - I don’t remember who it belongs to, it seems to the Russians, it was resold several times and works only on the owner’s pocket, it is not in the city layouts.
Dneprospetsstal was resold 10 times, each time it was re-built into a new vertical integration, as a result, little remained of the entire variety of products. Lives the last days.
Dneproges is a small screw of enormous state structure.
Dneproenergo is part of Akhmetov’s assets.
Yes, the mayor of Zaporozhye comes from Zaporizhstal, but firstly, the alternatives there were not very good, and secondly, in my opinion, he is now busy with purely personal affairs (tiles, asphalt and all that) and is not connected with the plant, because he (the factory) is no longer Zaporizhzhya.
As you can see from all the large enterprises of Zaporozhye, only Zaporozhye owner remained with Motor only. Therefore, the Motor, under which is really a third of the city, still means something. After 14 years, his political influence was nullified, and economically he can still do something. Till.

[Avior]

I don’t see much point in discussing this.
I wrote above there, in Soviet times, I worked on Motor
And friends stayed there
Boguslaev has no such influence as you described, otherwise the mayor would have stood for a long time
Although, of course, the person he is quite influential
Do you know how old he is and why he sells Motor?

[max1gu]

15 years ago I hacked on Progress, then they just had graters with a Motor.
I don’t know exactly how old he is - I won’t google it, but obviously around 80 in a big way.
But the reasons for the sale are more than obvious:
1. These engines are suitable only for Soviet technology, which is becoming less and less in the world. The market is shrinking. And our dear politicians can also prohibit the sale of motors to the aggressor or there are some sanctions there.
2. Russia introduces its replacement production, the market shrinks even more and needs to be sold until the plant has turned into a pumpkin. Russia does not need to buy - it can accept people for free. Western partners do not need this at all - the technology stopped 20 years ago. Only China, India, etc. will remain.
3. Judging by the style of Motor’s asset management in Ukraine, he has no one to leave everything acquired with honest work, at least in the form of a plant to be dealt with. Those. assets must be converted into real money.
And the price, in general, is not important, as for any comprador - for how much they will not sell, anyway this is more than nothing.

[max1gu]

Ah, AvtoZAZ forgot - the conveyor stopped in the year 14, the people fled in the 15th. Now they collect 100 buses a year.

[BAI]

What happens officially is a dark matter.
And not officially:
2017 year

“The Chinese Skyrizon and the Ukrainian Motor Sich plan to build a plant in Chongqing (central part of China. - RT), where they will produce and service aircraft engines using Ukrainian technologies. And the company plans to invest $ 250 million in the modernization of the Ukrainian production and design capacities of Motor Sich, ”said Kubiv.

The same amount attracts attention - 250 million.
17.11.2019

was voiced by Ukrainian political scientist Rostislav Ishchenko live. From his message, ex-customers have already learned that the largest aircraft engine factory in Europe is on its last legs, which means that it’s only a little to “live”.

This is due to the fact that 3 years ago (in 2016), the owner of the plant, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, made the most important decision - to transport most of the enterprise to Russia. In addition, he decided to do it “quietly”, not particularly talking about such an unusual strategy for development (or salvation).

[Fantazer911]

One can only say with regret that they profiled, period

[Lord of the Sith]

And we have a Lugansk Aviation Repair Plant, also unique.

[Lontus]

The Russophobic comprador regime of the mundialissimus strengthens the Chinese Nazis with the resources of Russian Ukraine, distracting naive loyalists from this crime by fussing in "sacred" Syria.


The principles of the Russian Federation are unchanged:

1. Loot above all
2. Russophobia above the dough.

[cheburator]

Intercept - loudly said! Outbid from corrupt Khokhloins! I want to eat the Vedas, right now they are selling everything both their homeland and at least my dear mother!
We are Russians, God is with us!

[Hikaro]

As for the pearl, this is nonsense! proven technology that's right! China is a very dangerous and very brazen power !! In Asia, China is hated and afraid because it completely rakes up all markets for itself !! And so having a bunch of China famously saves on R&D !!
Stupidly buying up the whole complex including hard workers at the initial stage, and then famously stamping copies !! And while making good money! Flirting with China, which Putin demonstrates, is perceived there as a weakness! And the attitude towards Russia is emphatically politely contemptuous!

[pafegosoff]

A factory and a whole city for Ukrainian engine builders have already been built in China, including kindergartens, schools, shops, and sports facilities. Residential buildings with underground parking, refueling electric vehicles. The climate region approximately corresponds to the Caucasus. In general, the main capital - specialists from metallurgists and turners to engineers and designers are ready to serve the new owners.

[smaug78]

“We managed to seize the pearl of engine building from the USA and the Russian Federation” - headline again on liberal patterns

[g1washntwn]

To buy a hat for a pittance from someone who decided to freeze everyone’s ears in spite ... right, a deal of the century! (sarcasm).

[ZVS]

The fact is that Motor Sich has not developed new engines for a long time, and now the era of fifth-generation engines begins. And this is what the Chinese can never do, for this we need modern technology to create absolutely all engine components. And at the time when the United States and Russia were creating a fifth-generation engine, Motor Sich was slowly bending. And the designer Motor Sich has long been in Russia, so he did not have time to intercept China from Russia. ))))))))))

[Timx]

Why what there! Motor Sich did not develop a series of engines (it’s not his profile), it is primarily a serial plant ..
PS
And as for the 5-generation engine, so during the USSR they only managed to bring the D-27 to flight prototypes, which they collected, unexpectedly, just on Motor Sich)))

[ZVS]

Why did you "accidentally" forget about the Saturn plants and the Aviadvigatel plant in Perm? I do not want to list here the line of aircraft engines of these two enterprises, but the overwhelming majority of aircraft and helicopters were equipped with engines from these plants. Suffice it to say that after the collapse of the USSR, these two plants continued to master the production of new engines, and Motor Sich happily rested in the Bose. This became especially noticeable when, in the 14th year, the Chohlopithecus decided to fight the Russians and Russia. Over the past five years, Hohlopithecs have been destroyed: NPO Yuzhmash, NPO Motor Sich, Nikolaev Shipyard. These were the locomotives of the Ukrainian economy. But as soon as we distance ourselves from Russia, it became clear that Ukraine has no brains of its own to manage these largest economic structures in business.

[Timx]

I repeat once again: Motor Sich is a serial plant, the same as, for example, Rybinsk Motors or Moscow MMP Chernyshev. You do not require them to develop new lines of motors, they are sharpened for the release of waste products in large batches, and nothing else.
And development is traditionally carried out in design bureaus (design organizations in which there are pilot production facilities where products are tested before being transferred to mass production). So, Zaporizhzhya Progress has been operating in Zaporozhye since the 50s, where they are engaged in the development of engines with the subsequent transfer of licenses to serial plants for the production of their products. So in the Moscow Salute from the beginning of the 2000s and up to the events of 2014, the development of mass production of 3 types of motors, development of the ZMKB Progress (D-27, AI-222, D-436) was underway, and since Salute invested serious money for the development and preparation of mass production of these engines, he received equal with ZMKB Progress intellectual property rights to these products, at least AI-222 and D-27.
Also, together with ZMKB Progress, it was planned to create a new engine instead of the PD-14, which is now `` tortured '' by the Permians, according to the scheme with a gearbox (like the PW-1000), and this was back in 2007-09 ..
So it is worth looking at things more objectively, and not succumbing to the slogans of the jingoistic patriots with their `` yes, we ourselves will get everything in 5 seconds and without anyone's help. ''

[Grad-Xnumx]

On the second an-225 will be the engine

[NF68]

It’s hard to believe that Motor Sich is a pearl of motor engineering. After the collapse of the USSR in Ukraine, they did nothing but destroy and take away everything that could be taken away, and after 2014 this process became generally unmanageable.

[eagle owl]

No, for China this is a plus. Only obviously nothing breakthrough and modern they got there

[Reserve buildbat]

I have only two questions:
1. How many designers are left in the "Sichi motor"? Of those that were.
2. "Head of Ukroboronprom" Aivaras Abromavichus "? Purebred Ukrainian)))
Let's see what the Chinese can do

[Dzafdet]

All the most valuable from Sich brought to the Russian Federation ...

[Al Asad]

Well, comrades. We are soon waiting for the news:
During the missile firing of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, several Caliber missiles went out of control and hit the main buildings of the Motor Sich plant
Factory restoration impossible. Documentation completely destroyed.

[Eug]

There are engines of the previous generation, except for the re-complicated 436. For the Russian Federation, D-18 for An-124 and D-136 for Mi-26 are critically important, but I suspect that it will be easier to agree with the Chinese than with today's Ukraine. A tidbit - app. parts to the TV2,3-117 family, but he was not Russian anyway. But only a drop in the quality of parts would not have happened ...

[ZVS]

Nothing critical for the Mi-26. The development of the PD-12V engine (based on PD-14) for the Mi-26th is nearing completion.

[Timx]

Are you sure that the development of PD-12V is coming to an end? I would also really like that to be so, but knowing a little the situation I want to say that:
- to create PD-12, a new gas generator is needed (from scratch), since PD-12 and PD-14 differ by about 2 times in dimension;
- if you make the new motor stupidly scaling (as the Permians initially proposed), then (according to their own estimates) the Mi-26's flight characteristics will decrease by 15-20% compared to the current version, and I’ll remind you of the Zaporozhye D-136 70 years (modification of the core of the D-36 engine from Yak-42 and An-72 aircraft) - these are the pies, miracles can not be expected here

[Shahno]

Quote: bessmertniy

Well, we stayed with some interests, and the Americans, because of their greed, broke off completely. Probably, they hoped for the complete loyalty of Ukraine and the cession of the enterprise for pennies.

Maybe the Americans didn’t need this headache. The meaning, that is, one thing is RD or NK. And the other thing is that they themselves do not control poorly

[samimagic76]

Let the Chinese think so!

[lopvlad]

We managed to capture the pearl of engine building from the USA and the Russian Federation

Motor Sich has no value either for the United States or for Russia. The United States initially had the production of its own engines for helicopters, and after the events of 2014, Russia started producing more modern helicopter engines.
So far, what Russia needs so much is a pearl under the name “Zorya” - “Mashproekt” producing ship gas turbine engines.
And Motor Sich is important only for the Chinese, and judging by the fact that the United States fully controls the power of Ukraine, they can at any time nullify Chinese investments.

[petrol cutter]

Yes. Regrettably this is all however. But it could have been otherwise ...

[Bear040]

Judging by the fact that the new turbine on the second frigate of project 22350 stupidly burned out and its overhaul and modernization was already carried out in the Russian Federation, China bought the ruin of the USSR, not the pearl

[cat Rusich]

Having bought Motorsich legally, the Chinese received the rights to service all engines produced by Motorsich since the times of the USSR - they received a "client base". By setting up production in China, the Chinese acquire customers - an important "resource"; the USSR's share in the world market for aircraft and helicopter engines "floats" to the PRC.

[wow]

It doesn't smell like a "pearl" for a long time ...

[itarnmag]

I am very interested in what kind of pearl the Chinese intercepted. The USSR, which included Motor Sich, always lagged behind in the field of engine building. And it is unlikely that during the years of independence of Ukraine, they created something modern, as they used to say, at the level of the best world standards

[Esaul]

It seems that Ukrainians sold the ears of an old donkey to the Chinese.

[Archon]

But can someone explain why China does not want to develop these technologies on its own?
because step by step, you can recreate and improve technology, and China has money

[mmaxx]

I remember, along with the license for drying, the Chinese were given a license for and for the engine. All transferred, including technical processes. The same engine they did not work. I had to buy.
The thing is people who constantly worked. But there are no miracle technologies in Zaporozhye. Indeed, the Americans do not need anything there - that's for sure. And we don’t really need to. It just produced a line of engines for our aircraft. It’s hard to master them. In the end, there may simply not be the necessary equipment. And nobody canceled the experience of people. It doesn’t make sense to launch some things again. Since it is morally obsolete. But it is necessary in this form. Since there is no new one either.
In general, a lot of problems.
And what will the Chinese do ...? They need to somehow go through the experience of motor building, which the one who has it has. In any case, Motor Sich does not expect anything good. The Chinese are not the kind of people to invest in someone else's.

[Yuri Mikhailovsky]

We'll see...as a good friend says...

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: loki565

Ukraine was lucky, in the 90s we bought companies to bankrupt, we did not need rootkurs. And China really needs Motor Sich, they will invest in it.

Seriously?

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Archon

But can someone explain why China does not want to develop these technologies on its own?
because step by step, you can recreate and improve technology, and China has money

You also need money and brains.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Buy...a bucket with nuts, a set of keys?