Rostec has calculated the number of cases of illegal copying of Russian weapons and equipment

J-15 carrier-based fighter - illegal Chinese clone Su-33

Over the past 17 years, more than 500 cases of unauthorized copying of Russian weapons and military equipment have been identified. This was told by the head of intellectual property projects at Rostec Evgeny Livadny.

Russian experts have identified more than 500 cases of unauthorized copying of Russian weapons and military equipment. Especially China has succeeded in this, where Russian aircraft engines, fighter jets, anti-aircraft systems and much more have already been copied.

The difficult situation with unauthorized copying of our equipment abroad: over the past 17 years [recorded] more than 500 cases of such copying. Only in China: aviation engines, Sukhoi aircraft, carrier-based fighters, air defense systems, MANPADS, analogues of the "Shell" - all this is copied

- explained Livadny.

According to him, Russian specialists work abroad who identify cases of illegal copying of Russian weapons and military equipment. However, even when such cases are identified, Russia cannot bring anything to the “copyists” through the court, since there are no patents registered for Russian weapons abroad. At the same time, foreign companies at a high level are engaged in the protection of intellectual property by registering their patents abroad.

If we look at foreign customers, such as Raytheon, BAE Systems, we will see that leading corporations have up to 5 thousand patents abroad (...) They disclose their intellectual property, not seeing this as any threat. We neither the Ministry of Defense have patents registered abroad, nor defense industry enterprises

- he stressed.

In October, it was announced that Rosoboronexport was creating a consultative group to protect the rights to the results of intellectual activity in the framework of military-technical cooperation.

Comments

[IGOR GORDEEV]

Well then, we are waiting for the publication of an unlicensed Chinese copy of the S-400.

[rufaqn]

They have already made their own system on the basis of C 300, there is an opinion that they surpass C300 and C400 in some parameters, now having received C400 they will take some developments from there, and given that China has its own elemental base, huge production potential and does not have In the asset of sanctions like the Russian ones, the expulsion of Russia from the air defense market and, in general, high-tech and not very weapons, is a matter of time, and a short one. There will be another "breakthrough"

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

It is not clear why we see analogs of our developments in everything from China, but at the same time we buy everything there, starting from engines at the Buyan-M MRK, cars, microcircuits, chips, processors, nails, buttons, and practically everything. The Chinese have long ceased to be "copiers". If we recall their "trick with the ears" with enticing the personnel of the Antonov Design Bureau, then the presence of a very intelligible program for the development of their own science and production is evident. And if you remember from whom the Russian Federation now buys CNC machines, it will become completely sad.

[rufaqn]

Let’s say, the Chinese have not been copying anything for a long time in the literal sense, but certain developments are taken from everywhere like all the other participants, but in the USSR, copying of weapons, manufactured goods, machine tools and equipment was put in the rank of state policy, so to speak import substitution in the Soviet Union, moreover, they copied not only in the capitalist countries, but also in the fraternal socialist countries, nevertheless, the lag in most sectors was obvious, and with the collapse of the USSR they stopped copying and flew away to the tartars completely.

[Amin_vivec]

Only here in the metropolitan area, the Chinese placed precisely the SU-35 and S-400 and not their clones. Clones do not reach the original in combat capabilities and resources.

[2 Level Advisor]

of course, to protect the capital is the best .. but when the market will be for sale equipment-analogue of ours, albeit inferior to us by 20-25 percent in quality / capabilities, but at a price 2 times cheaper .. what do you think, what most buyers with a limited purchase budget?

[Eroma]

Weapons and household appliances, this is a different category of goods, the price does not roll! It affects the characteristics, if a Chinese copy of the C300 with truncated characteristics for half the price will withstand for example Mig21, this is a reasonable choice, but if they have to fight against Rafales and cruise missiles, then the copy is money thrown out and failure in defense, then the C400 is without options. For different systems, different markets, we need to respond to a copy of the C300 Buk M2,5 for example, for the same money, but with different features!

What you can copy must be patented without options

[Amin_vivec]

You, too, can choose to buy milk, and "milk containing product", and butter and margarine in palm oil in the store. And here, too, there is a difference in price. This is the market.

[Bongo]

Quote: Amin_Vivec

Only here in the metropolitan area, the Chinese placed precisely the SU-35 and S-400 and not their clones. Clones do not reach the original in combat capabilities and resources.

Maybe, of course, I don’t know what, and I would be very grateful if you would consider it possible to share at which Chinese air base the Su-35SK and the coordinators of the S-400 air defense positions are located?

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Bongo

Maybe of course I don’t know what.

I’m sick of you listing what you don’t know Therefore I will not

[Bongo]

Quote: Ruslan67

Quote: Bongo

Maybe of course I don’t know what.

I’m sick of you listing what you don’t know Therefore I will not

Hello! So it's impossible to know everything, but why the heck write what you can't answer for? Let's just say that not all S-400s are located in the "capital region". And about the Su-35SK is a separate conversation.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Bongo

why the hell to write something for which you can not answer?

90% of posts on our site

Quote: Bongo

Let's just say that not all S-400s are located in the "capital region".

Well, not only everything .... Otherwise, we both talked not only here

[Bongo]

Quote: Ruslan67

90% of posts on our site

Unfortunately...

Quote: Ruslan67

Well, not only everything .... Otherwise, we both talked not only here

For Chinese S-400 and Su-35SK information is publicly available, but in English

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Bongo

but in English

Same France and a little deutsche + Spanish mate in swear-And if you don’t go to the vagina of an immaculate girl with low social responsibility, in the girlhood of Mary

[Bongo]

Quote: Ruslan67

Quote: Bongo

but in English

Same France and a little deutsche + Spanish mate in swear-And if you don’t go to the vagina of an immaculate girl with low social responsibility, in the girlhood of Mary

You made me laugh, morning succeeded!
Okay, I’ll continue to serve. Be healthy!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Bongo

Okay, I’ll continue to serve.

Or vice versa?

[Bongo]

Quote: Ruslan67

Or vice versa?

No, it's too early to endure me! Yes and no one, the doors are closed from the inside.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Bongo

It's too early to endure me!

Quote: Bongo

the doors are closed inside.

Then i'm calm You won’t break out for ideological reasons

[Bongo]

Quote: Ruslan67

Then i'm calm

Previously, only my wife was worried about me when I went to the taiga for hunting and fishing. Now you also began to worry, do you need it?

Quote: Ruslan67

You won’t break out for ideological reasons

I will break free, with the guard in good relations.
That's it, I’ll go to the girls to the knot, I’m having tea for bread, I need to get ready for dinner ...

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Bongo

Now you also started to worry, do you need it?

As I began to worry about Honduras with 77 g of the last century, I can’t stop

Quote: Bongo

I’ll go to the girls to the knot,

Explicit communication

Quote: Bongo

tea for bread,

a couple of glasses

Quote: Bongo

need to get ready for dinner ...

have a bite

[Vadim237]

"Let's just say that the Chinese have not been copying anything in the literal sense for a long time." You were joking, they are engaged in hybridization and copying to this day of everything that the whole world produces and creates - there is almost nothing purely of their own Chinese, all production is created on a foreign basis.

[kapitan92]

Quote: rufaqn

Well, in the Soviet Union at the time, the copying of weapons, manufactured goods, machine tools and equipment was put in the rank of state policy,

Very interesting! Can you see the list of copied products?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

The Chinese are no longer "copiers"

Just still Xeroxes, and Xeroxes for a very long time.

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

If we recall their "trick with the ears" with enticing the personnel of the Antonov Design Bureau, then the presence of a very intelligible program for the development of their own science and production is evident.

There is a program. There are no results. In fact, today the Chinese results in the aviation industry are precisely the copying of certain components and assemblies with varying degrees of success

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

And if you recall from whom the Russian Federation is currently purchasing CNC machines, it will become completely sad.

So they are not only copying from the Russian Federation .... And the situation with the machines in our country is a pain.

[2 Level Advisor]

Andrei, as far as I know, the only thing in aviation technology is that they don’t have any good yet, the engines .. they’re doing the rest quite normal .. and the idea is that the plane going on a combat course will do in its future operation (if it survives) 2 times fewer departures before repairs than for example ours .. well, let's say .. it’s not important at the time of the battle ..

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

the only thing in aircraft is that they don’t normally get out-engines yet .. the rest is already quite normal ..

Yes, DO NOT, but COPY :))) They can tear off the same radar station. To create on its basis its improved - no longer.
Even with all the copy-paste ... look at their main MFI, J-10. They were helped by ours, they were given "lavi", but they did not reach the F-16

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

and the idea is that a plane going on a combat course - in its future operation (if it survives) will make 2 times less sorties before repair than for example ours .. well, let's say .. it will not matter at the time of the battle ..

Yes, it will be more important, because the flying time of our pilots will be twice as high :)))) With the corresponding difference in skill

[2 Level Advisor]

where does the raid? it’s just that their planes have MOT more often, you don’t think that if the plane was taken for MOT, then the pilot sits and waits for it?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

where does the raid? just then their planes more often

Yes, what MOT? :))) The resource of their aircraft is less, so you will fly as much - you will have to upgrade the fleet twice as fast. And for engines, in general, they will need to be changed almost annually.

[2 Level Advisor]

glider resource? slightly worse, I don’t remember something that the planes in flight fell apart combat .. avionics resource? Yes, she generally always experiences the plane for everyone as a rule .. engine resource? Replacing a maximum of a week in a regiment ... why should the park be updated? Resource pilots? it’s like they’re cooking .. they don’t send engines to the plant for replacement .. but at least they’re getting worse (I still think it’s worse) at least a third .. it’s just an increased maintenance of the aircraft .. it doesn’t affect the battle .. affects the cost maintenance and the fact that let the device stay in remrot for a week or two a year, and that’s it!

[2 Level Advisor]

by the way they copy and do .. hmm .. yes it’s ugly and bad to steal ideas, especially when they themselves sold the original to them .. but the plane will not disappear from this .. it flies and can launch missiles / bombs .. we could learn from places

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

glider resource? slightly worse, I don’t remember something that the planes in flight fell apart fighting ..

In the USSR, the airframe resource was inferior to the American one and the airplanes did not fall apart. Just because upon reaching this resource no one took off planes into the air.
In general, we have recently made a big leap. The airframe resource of the Su-27 in 1991 reached 2000 hours, while the Su-35 had 6000 hours.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

engine life? Replacing a maximum of a week in a regiment ...

Yeah. Do you imagine the cost of the engine? Even the Chinese economy does not pull such feats

[2 Level Advisor]

You all the time about money .. yes! an important component .. but in case of war - do not care how expensive / cheap to operate the aircraft will sprinkle bombs on your head .. and anyway they will bring it down for a month at maximum with a real mess .. does the Chinese Defense Ministry have enough money to operate? it means enough time to fly .. where does it? Fu 35,22 is generally very expensive to operate (many times more expensive than the Su-35), and after all, they are being repaired .. scum fly ..
unfortunately, we primarily have the cost now, not the combat effectiveness ..

[2 Level Advisor]

cons can be seen from those who think that the enemy’s planes don’t fly, tanks don’t go and generally the shells fall after a shot .. it’s strange that they still didn’t give up to us ...

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

who thinks that the enemies ... in general, shells fall after a shot ..

... if "at all" - then the shells do fall after the shot. Is always. Both friends and enemies ... physics

This is a banter, do not focus

[Vadim237]

"And if you remember from whom the Russian Federation now buys CNC machines, it will become completely sad." - Certainly not Chinese - German, Czech, American, Swiss, Belgian, Japanese - almost all of these manufacturers have already localized the production of their equipment in Russia.

[Tersky]

Quote: rufaqn

there is an opinion that they surpass C300 and C400 in some parameters,

Opinion and facts are quite different things.
It is impossible to achieve higher characteristics than the original with banal copying.

[orionvitt]

Quote: rufaqn

own elemental base, huge production potential

All this is good of course, but the elemental base itself does not work. In air defense systems, the most important thing is the search algorithms, and signal processing of the identified targets. And this is encrypted so that simply copying the iron, you will not achieve anything.

[Donald72]

Not a copy of the S-400 but a new Type-xxx development, for some reason similar to the S-400

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: IGOR GORDEEV

Well then, we are waiting for the publication of an unlicensed Chinese copy of the S-400.

Let them copy, do not have time for us all the same
And there is such a thing as control over our weapons ..
Remember our Strela MANPADS, they do not shoot down their own and the system is very difficult to hack

[rufaqn]

Arrows made in the USSR successfully shot down planes and helicopters made in the USSR; in the Donbass there is no need to project cinematic fiction into reality.

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: rufaqn

Arrows made in the USSR successfully shot down planes and helicopters made in the USSR; in the Donbass there is no need to project cinematic fiction into reality.

Well, maybe you're right .. heh heh But still, the latest MANPADS have stopped using the devils .. They put in a lock, even with an explosion ..

[at84432384]

The "friend or foe" identification system is secret and for export that MANPADS, that SAM, that helicopter planes are supplied without it. So our own weapons are quite capable of shooting down our helicopter planes. An illustration of this is the war on 08.08.08, when the Ukrainians in Georgia shot down several Russian planes with Soviet air defense systems.

[YOUR]

There is no interrogator on missiles; this is ground-based equipment that can block missile launch. Because at the MANPADS, the interrogator is not provided, it will shoot down anything.
As for 080808, the division of countries has occurred and the recognition system has been changed.

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: YOUR

As for 080808, the division of countries has occurred and the recognition system has been changed.

And essentially .. You're right!

[at84432384]

As for modern air defense systems, I don't know, maybe there is a hardware launch lock, and on the old ones in the combat control cabin, a marker was displayed on the indicator at the mark from "its" target and the operator simply did not process it. I think it's the same on modern ones. A banal hijacking of an airplane is always possible, as a MIG-25 was once hijacked ...

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: at84432384

As for modern air defense systems, I don’t know, maybe there is a hardware start-up lock, but on old ones

And on the S-400 there is a total .. You can turn it off, but you can turn on another level ..

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

The second batch of S-400s for Turkey is supposed to be delivered with the "friendly target" option.

[YOUR]

MIG25 was impossible to shoot down. Firstly, Belenko knew the location of our air defense systems and chose a route that significantly reduced their capabilities, and secondly, it took time to find a target and launch a missile system, but it wasn’t. And thirdly, who could have imagined that he would do that. The pilot performed the next training task, there was simply no reaction time to his actions.

[Avior]

On PZRK the requestor also happens

[YOUR]

Not the MANPADS themselves, but additional equipment, for example Dzhigit, Strelets. Here they are equipped with a system of external preliminary target designation "friend or foe". Those. not these settings themselves, but the control center for the target comes from outside with information about the location of the target, its parameters, including the identification of "friend or foe."
The equipment is complex and dimensional. An interrogator is a radar station that sends a signal to a target if it has its own aircraft, it has a transceiver on it, the signal is processed and sent back.

[Avior]

... equipping the combat means of MANPADS with "friend or foe" interrogators, which ensured the blocking of the missile launch at their aircraft if the anti-aircraft gunner made an erroneous aiming;

Features of the "Strela-3" complex:

- the use of a cooled photodetector in the homing head;

- protection from background interference;

- the use of an autonomous interrogator "friend or foe";

http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vsk/pzrk_strela.html

[Thrall]

Maybe it’s time to start thinking when a Chinese printer is sold as a model for a batch of modern Russian weapons?
Maybe it's time to start counting how many potential buyers of the original are lost? Those who later acquire a Chinese copy.

[at84432384]

The capitalist only thinks about profit here and now. The state of the Russian Federation protects exclusively the rights of large capital. So who will think? No one.

[Fat]

Quote: at84432384

The capitalist only thinks about profit here and now. The state of the Russian Federation protects exclusively the rights of large capital. So who will think? No one.

So the thief thinks, the stolen goods come true. The capitalist thinks how to earn and continue to earn further in the long run. Actually this is the main difference between the capitalist and the thief.

[Same lech]

The main reason for the refusal of inventors and patent holders to protect and defend their rights is the complexity of the procedure for obtaining a patent and the process of protecting patent rights due to the imperfection of Russian legislation.

More here
https://research-journal.org/law/nekotorye-problemy-rossijskogo-patentnogo-prava/

[cniza]

Over the past 17 years, more than 500 cases of unauthorized copying of Russian weapons and military equipment have been identified. This was told by the head of intellectual property projects at Rostec Evgeny Livadny.

And they tried to do something or silently ...

[Thrifty]

Well, so start patenting everything totally, and the Chinese need to hint that for the theft of our technology, ideas, appearance, we will spread rot through the courts totally, all over the world. And stop looking into their mouths, the Chinese are making bullshit, similar to our equipment, and in the accident of the Chinese military counterfact, this is a blow to the image of Russia, such as poor-quality equipment! Better let your design schools and directions develop!

[Donald72]

China, in many civilian technologies, is isolated from us as the British from the Zulus. And it is not shameful for a resident of the celestial Empire to take anything from the savages; this is not a theft. And in recent years, we have somehow not been working with international courts.

[Vadim237]

"China is in isolation from us in many civil technologies" - What kind of "civil technologies" is it in isolation from Russia?

[Zliy_mod]

Microelectronics, computers, smartphones, marine diesel engines ...

[Vadim237]

Microelectronics, computers, smartphones - all this is produced on foreign equipment and components - created at foreign factories in China. Purely Chinese there is nothing in all segments of the household and other things.

[Karen]

Quote: Vadim237

Microelectronics, computers, smartphones - all this is produced on foreign equipment and components - created at foreign factories in China. Purely Chinese there is nothing in all segments of the household and other things.

Another 5+ years? back the Chinese developed their own processor ...

[Karen]

Quote: Vadim237

Purely Chinese there is nothing in all segments of the household and other things.

And this, in my opinion, is not buzzing ... I, now, have the last suitcase with Chinese (and Indian) cotton ... bed linen there, all kinds of towels ... My parents bought in Moscow from the 66th year ... All wardrobes and closets were packed with suitcases with their cotton products ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Vadim237

China is in isolation from us in many civil technologies "- What kind of civil technologies is it in isolation from Russia?

Vadim, and you from a computer of what production write? I am from Chinese, for example. And my phone is Chinese ...

[Vadim237]

Honestly - in terms of household appliances, I don’t have a single appliance made in China. Yes, from the belongings, neither of which is from China.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Vadim237

Honestly - in terms of household appliances, I don’t have a single appliance made in China.

If something is not with you, then with others - in bulk. Starting from condoms. By the way, in the USSR they released ... Verified by electronics. It was possible instead of passics to stick into the tape recorder.

[at84432384]

Patenting is a double-edged sword. When patenting (if it does not concern appearance), sometimes you have to reveal the secrets of the technology, which is not great - you can attach some insignificant "bow" and bypass your patent .., and you will hardly be able to control a third-party manufacturer. If the AK barrel alloy had been patented, then all the replicas would be of the same quality as the Russian ones. Yes, there is still such a moment, who is engaged in copying, he does not develop his science and technology and always loses. The Chinese copied the Russian aircraft engine, but the copy's resource is ridiculous. They do not have the technology for manufacturing turbine blades. Everything rests on scientific schools which they do not have.

[Mik1701]

You can give a hint, but something cannot be claimed. Gas .... Billionth project.

[Vadim237]

And that gas - without gas, the Chinese economy can not survive coal for 67% of all energy in any way; it will not work out for a long time due to environmental problems. A new gas pipeline to China will start soon.

[Corn]

We neither the Ministry of Defense have patents registered abroad, nor defense industry enterprises

Then what kind of illegal copying is the author trying to rub? Copy completely legally.

[carstorm 11]

it is illegal in terms of our law. and our patents. I personally faintly imagine how the latest developments someone will trample patenting abroad. it’s easier then to put everything in open access)

[mentle]

Another swallow on the topic of “let's all be European” ... Our people won’t understand that Europe and the Americans do not treat us as equals.

[knn54]

That's just the point, to apply for a patent on a "closed topic" abroad is practically the disclosure of military secrets.
The Yankees also copy the Chinese (as I wrote about the reverse engineering method). And in the USA they just shrug.
Although there are options (and without patenting), NOBODY will do it. otherwise the "friends" will be offended.

[Terenin]

Quote: knn54

Although there are options (and without patenting), NOBODY will do it. otherwise the "friends" will be offended.

Well, as it happened . And not only with us. Until the problem becomes a threat, solve it listlessly. However, as the saying goes a decision made on time is more important than two right ones

[RUSS]

Quote: Corn

We neither the Ministry of Defense have patents registered abroad, nor defense industry enterprises

Then what kind of illegal copying is the author trying to rub? Copy completely legally.

Moreover, the validity of a patent depends on the country of patenting, the subject of patenting and ranges from 5 to 35 years.

[kolkulon]

Well, counted. But what's the point, if it’s not patented? Water in a mortar to crush yes s / n to receive? Class

[Alien From]

Consider do not consider, the Chinese are sending everyone the forest! New things to do, not whining!

[Basil50]

That's why the magicians of what is PATENTED in RUSSIA appear.
In the US, it is legally allowed to steal what is popular in other countries. Moreover, they steal any intellectual property from inventions to cinema.
By the way, in relation to the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, the attitude was exactly the same.
I saw with my own eyes the famous periodic table in Germany under the name of a German chemist, in England under the name of an English chemist.

[carstorm 11]

I don’t know how we do, but in the states any patent can be taken away by the state if it recognizes it as something to ensure state security. NSA checks all patents completely. and who will get there patents?) This is a vicious circle)

[Professor]

Quote: Vasily50

In the US, it is legally allowed to steal what is popular in other countries.

Lying. I personally have a patent registered in the USA. I would like to see a daredevil who decided to ignore him in the United States.

[Zliy_mod]

So this is something else, mattresses are allowed to steal your patent registered in Israel or Russia, Ukraine ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

It was high time that we began to protect the products of our military-industrial complex from copying.

Better late than never, well, conclusions also need to be done. Is it really necessary to sell something to China for the extra 5 billion dollars when our gold reserves exceeded 540 billion ?!

[carstorm 11]

for sure) we will patent the Americans there, the CIA can be dissolved as unnecessary) they will bring everything themselves)

[RUSS]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

It was high time that we began to protect the products of our military-industrial complex from copying.

Without copying, we would not have a TU-4 bomber, a KS tank, a BT-2 tank, a T-26 tank, a PPD machine gun, etc., and not to mention copies of civilian equipment.

[Borik]

Without copying, we would not have a TU-4 bomber, a KS tank, a BT-2 tank, a T-26 tank, a PPD machine gun, etc.

And from whom did Degtyarev copy the PPD?

[RUSS]

Quote: Borik

And from whom did Degtyarev copy the PPD?

I did not copy it, but in 1940 I brought into my design borrowings from the Finnish PP Suomi.

[IL-18]

Cars, tanks, engines, machine tools in the USSR were licensed copies. In some cases, with the development of production and the involvement of its own specialists by the manufacturer when creating the initial samples, and sometimes building enterprises. Tu-4 differed engines immediately. Tank Christie and BT-2 were already noticeably different from each other at the beginning of production. Moreover, what came into the country illegally, like the B-29, like trophies, then ALREADY you can use your own thing at your own discretion.

[Karen]

I do not know about the application, but one Bulgarian before the Second World War presented the USSR with the construction of his machine gun, for which the British were ready to give him 1,5 million f.s.

[Donald72]

What country in the world would disdain to take the best in quiet from strangers. And for export versions these "Achievements"may not be lit.

[Thunderbolt]

Russian specialists work abroad to identify cases of illegal copying of Russian weapons and military equipment. However...

Then what is the point of paying for the work of these specialists?

[Obstacle]

Everything is enshrined in the Constitution, there is nothing to whine empty, rule the reason ...

[maden.usmanow]

We neither the Ministry of Defense have patents registered abroad, nor defense industry enterprises

This is the flip side of secrecy. Why hide, and so they buy and copy everything.

[Operator]

It is mainly necessary to obtain foreign patents not for inventions (which may not exist or their description will reveal the essence of the technical solution), but for utility models - i.e. on layout solutions (which is simpler, faster and cheaper for legal protection).

Why few people do this from Russian arms manufacturers is a mystery.

[iouris]

And who cares? Rostec needs to do the same.

[Vadim237]

What is the same thing - copying foreign weapons?

[Gardamir]

Rostec calculated

And what?..
Here is the statement of one high person,

Let us wait until the Americans spend money on new technologies for the production of shale oil, and then we have them - a scratch-dag!

and here is another statement by the same person.

“I don’t know, I’m probably not going to reveal a big secret, it will become clear anyway: we are now helping our Chinese partners to create an SPRN system ... This is a very serious thing that will fundamentally and radically increase the defense capability of the People’s Republic of China. Because now only the USA and Russia have such a system. ”

So what is the discussion about?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Gardamir

So what is the discussion about?

Wow. I carefully read what you wrote, and did not understand - what are you talking about?

Am I a fool, or ... no?

[Piramidon]

it was reported that Rosoboronexport had set up a consulting group for the protection of rights to the results of intellectual activity within the framework of military-technical cooperation.

And that will be? The Chinese don't care. They act on the principle - "Poop, let them lag behind"

[sergo1914]

Woke up?

[Shahno]

Here you need to see an opinion from two sides ..
DARPA also has the ability to do research.
But the fact that Rostec appreciated the power of marketing is already a plus.

[samarin1969]

Relevant services ceased to keep KB secrets. Or at some (?!?) Management level, they are corny trading technologies.
It is rather difficult to copy the composition of materials and manufacturing technologies. These secrets are protected by corporations without any democracy. Even for a simple interest, they can tear their heads off. Which would be appropriate for Rostec to do.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: samarin1969

Copying the composition of materials ... quite difficult

Easily

Quote: samarin1969

Copy ... manufacturing technology is quite difficult

Impossible, as a rule.

I love amateurs

Quote: samarin1969

Relevant services ceased to keep KB secrets. Or...

Trepidation.

[at84432384]

Access to secrets became open back in the late Gorbachev era and continued on a large scale in the Yeltsin era, when hordes of CIA officers disguised as "privatizers" were admitted to all the "holy of holies". Then they did not even hide their affiliation with the CIA. And now we have nothing special to steal from us - all research institutes and design bureaus are either closed, or drag out a miserable existence. Now all over the world, and Russia is no exception, science is in the pen.

[samarin1969]

Quote: at84432384

Access to secrets became open back in the late Gorbachev era and continued on a large scale in the Yeltsin era, when hordes of CIA officers disguised as "privatizers" were admitted to all the "holy of holies". Then they did not even hide their affiliation with the CIA. And now we have nothing special to steal from us - all research institutes and design bureaus are either closed, or drag out a miserable existence. Now all over the world, and Russia is no exception, science is in the pen.

It’s hard not to believe your words. (I believe that there is no true information even under the heading of chipboard). ...
Mr. Chemezov's department should not complain about the "plagiarists", but initiate a judicial investigation against the persons who allowed the secrets to be "open". They have heirs, property. ... The state could well cover some of the damage and arrange a show trial with confiscations against the perpetrators and their families.

[Shahno]

Quote: samarin1969

Relevant services ceased to keep KB secrets. Or at some (?!?) Management level, they are corny trading technologies.
It is rather difficult to copy the composition of materials and manufacturing technologies. These secrets are protected by corporations without any democracy. Even for a simple interest, they can tear their heads off. Which would be appropriate for Rostec to do.

Again. No one will tear anything.
Missed, then missed. Copying is not difficult. It is necessary to offer a worthy reward. ..

[midshipman]

In the 80s, I had to participate in organizing the production of our MiG-23 fighter in India. For this fighter, I and two of my colleagues had two patents that were incorporated into this aircraft. So for six years I received remuneration from India for 6 thousand dollars. USA annually. I received the funds in the form of checks at the bank on Kutuzovsky Prospekt. My wife spent them on buying things in the Beryozka stores (remember these were in Moscow). I remember always there were Georgians near the bank who wanted to buy up these checks. But I don’t remember that anyone gave them checks and received rubles.

[Pavel57]

How many copies were in the USSR of foreign technology - B-29, sights, aircraft engines, depth charges, air-to-air missiles.
And how many borrowings were without direct copying.
This is normal in the world of weapons. But no one counted.

[Vasyan1971]

There are no patents for Russian weapons registered abroad.

Well, who is to blame and who is the evil Pinocchio?

[Professor]

We neither the Ministry of Defense have patents registered abroad, nor defense industry enterprises

Accordingly, the phrase

Rostec counted the number of cases illegal copying Russian weapons and equipment

wrong. All copy ABSOLUTELY legally.

[Thrifty]

Well, our officials do not want to admit that the Chinese simply steal our ideas, development, technology from us. ...

[Professor]

Quote: Thrifty

Well, our officials do not want to admit that the Chinese simply steal our ideas, development, technology from us. ...

Do not steal. Do you understand? They don’t steal at all. What is put into public use is universal property. What patent did the Chinese steal? Well, at least one?

[Svarog51]

I can’t say for the Chinese, but Israel has taken one professor away. And maybe not one.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Svarog51

Israel took one professor

If you are about that professor who has an ava with his tongue sticking out - I’ll say - and glory ... the work that he took away ... if he would have taken such more

[Svarog51]

And the patent ... sorry, where was the metric issued to him? Brazenly slammed

[Professor]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Svarog51

Israel took one professor

If you are about that professor who has an ava with his tongue sticking out - I’ll say - and glory ... the work that he took away ... if he would have taken such more

That's for sure. and you will heal happily then. Why do you need all sorts of honors? After all, the diploma should be blue, and the face red. You do not need scientific articles and patents.
Here we are happy to accept such.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Professor

After all, the diploma should be blue, and the face red

Are you fit? Well, that's nice. Happy for you.

[Professor]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Professor

After all, the diploma should be blue, and the face red

Are you fit? Well, that's nice. Happy for you.

No, I do not match. I have a red diploma.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Professor

No, I do not match. I have a red diploma.

So the face is blue? Oleg Well, at that age

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Ruslan67

So the face is blue?

Took off the tongue

Ruslan,

[Professor]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Ruslan67

So the face is blue?

Took off the tongue

Ruslan,

Toenails are blue. I'm a marathon runner.

[Karen]

We have a very smart Jew living in Yerevan, Kechek (I think, 1956) ... So after the matolypiad they came for him from Moscow and took him home ...

[Professor]

Quote: Karen

We have a very smart Jew living in Yerevan, Kechek (I think, 1956) ... So after the matolypiad they came for him from Moscow and took him home ...

Aliens taken away? Jews were not admitted to mehmat in Moscow.

Quote: Ruslan67

So the face is blue? Oleg Well, at that age

Normal face. I am an athlete, a marathon runner.

[Karen]

Quote: Professor

Quote: Karen

We have a very smart Jew living in Yerevan, Kechek (I think, 1956) ... So after the matolypiad they came for him from Moscow and took him home ...

Aliens taken away? Jews were not admitted to mehmat in Moscow.

Once taken to Moscow, then taken where necessary ...

[YOUR]

The Chinese have concluded an agreement with us to supply AK-176 gun mounts. They installed a tower on their ship, it doesn’t work, our specialists arrived, it was specially disabled, but they made chewing gum friendship. After a couple of months again ... after another couple of months again ... and then the Chinese rolled out the claim - they delivered you poor-quality equipment, we demand that our representative control the manufacturing process. And lo and behold, from the very top came an order to admit. The Chinese filmed documented the manufacturing process and, after receiving 3 samples, terminated the contract. After some time, the H / PJ-26 installation appeared in China.
Almost the same for the Su-27. They signed a contract for the supply of 200 fighters received 100 and broke the contract. They began to release themselves.
Examples can be given a lot, but to sense.

[YOUR]

Following up. That's how it works like a Russian but still a Chinese installation https://strangernn.livejournal.com/1812627.html

[Pavel57]

In Chinese tricks more often the fault of our side. And what they got through third parties is their right. We delivered to third countries and understood the possibility of losing them in any direction.

[Shahno]

Quote: at84432384

Patenting is a double-edged sword. When patenting (if it does not concern appearance), sometimes you have to reveal the secrets of the technology, which is not great - you can attach some insignificant "bow" and bypass your patent .., and you will hardly be able to control a third-party manufacturer. If the AK barrel alloy had been patented, then all the replicas would be of the same quality as the Russian ones. Yes, there is still such a moment, who is engaged in copying, he does not develop his science and technology and always loses. The Chinese copied the Russian aircraft engine, but the copy's resource is ridiculous. They do not have the technology for manufacturing turbine blades. Everything rests on scientific schools which they do not have.

My dear, if they find out that there are specialists. .. This has nothing to do with science schools ...

[Pervy]

Can even sell more weapons to the Chinese? In small batches, purely for copy?

[ZVS]

It is necessary to draw up the rights to development in time, as was done in the USSR. At that time, China ONLY licensed to produce aircraft and other military equipment. And as patents began to be sold (AK-47, Tu-16, MiG-21, etc.), so the Chinese began to sculpt their hybrids. And with that, they started stealing technology and frankly ripping off projects from other countries. On theft and not on intelligence, China has risen.

[at84432384]

Arms patents were not transferred to the Chinese, this is a delusion. At best, drawings were transmitted. In rare cases, technology. For this reason, all their replicas are complete d. In the theatrical world there is such a word "props". Here are all the Chinese "copies" of Soviet / Russian weapons and there are props.

[Avior]

Automatic AK, like AKM, like Ak74, have never been patented
There is only a patent for some solutions of the Ak-XNUMXth series

[ZVS]

This once again confirms that the Chinese are intellectual property thieves. They are not capable of creating anything of their own in the high-tech sector.

[Vitaly Tsymbal]

Everyone who works in this market copies weapons. The fact that China is the main copier has not been a sensation for a long time. The question is how much our developers can keep the "distance" in the development of those positions in which we are leading. And the second - to what extent we are able to create our own research and production base without the "help" of potential competitors (I mean components, machine tools, chemical components, etc.)

[samarin1969]

Quote: Shahno

Copying is not difficult. It is necessary to offer a worthy reward. ..

Wonderful! If it's easy to copy .... Boeings, AMD and Intel processors, the Japanese car industry are quite common throughout the Russian Federation. We copy, stop the production of "domestic bicycles", make and reset the import of "machinery and equipment".

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: samarin1969

If it's easy to copy .... Boeings, AMD and Intel processors, the Japanese car industry are quite common throughout the Russian Federation. We copy, stop the production of "domestic bicycles

Are you really that hard, or just pretending to be? Teacher?

[lelik613]

Tell us, do "such as Raytheon, BAE Systems" have many patents in Russia out of these 5000? Maybe 2? Or 1? Or none at all?

[Zoomlion]

Ours, as they were in terms of protecting the intellectual and technical property of Lokhs, have remained

[Mentat]

Quote: rufaqn

They have already made their system on the basis of C 300, it is believed that they surpass C300 and C400 in some parameters

There is an opinion that you are nonsense. Please provide links to these "opinions and options."

now having received the C400 they will take some groundwork from there, and given that China has its own element base, huge production potential and does not have sanctions like the Russian ones, the expulsion of Russia from the air defense market and in general high-tech and not very weapons is a matter of time, and it is short ... There will be another "breakthrough"

Catching up (copying) will never be in front. For short, long or generally any periods of time. To do this, you need to create your own advanced.

[Mentat]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

It is not clear why we see analogs of our developments in everything from China, but at the same time we buy everything there, starting from engines at Buyan-M MRCs, cars, microcircuits, chips, processors, nails, buttons, and practically everything.

We buy "everything" because China produces it cheaply. And if you give yourself a job and figure out what “engines, chips, microcircuits” are, you will find that these are licensed or not copies of German engines and Western chips. There are several main reasons: a) many “chips, microcircuits” simply will not be sold to us differently; b) from savings. The Americans were also engaged in this, though they poured the difference into their own pockets. Check out the scandals of substituting military-accepted microcircuits for Chinese copies.
By the way, what kind of cars do we buy in China? Did you figure out what exactly they are? Obviously not.

The Chinese are no longer "copiers" for a long time.

The Chinese have made some progress. But the copier there still represents the technological basis. Why engage in self-deception?
In addition, without any photocopiers, the West continues to supply China with the most advanced means of production and instructions on production processes. To extract high profits, for the sake of which Western corporations did not care and rubbed everything else.

If we recall their "trick with the ears" with enticing the personnel of the Antonov Design Bureau, then the presence of a very intelligible program for the development of their own science and production is evident. And if you remember from whom the Russian Federation now buys CNC machines, it will become completely sad.

We begin to manufacture CNC machines ourselves under German licenses. In China, what is urgently needed and can be purchased profitably is bought. Or is China the only place where Russia can get something from the modern, because in the West they just don’t sell it to us.

[Vadim237]

Germany has all the latest machines, Russia buys without any problems.

[Alross]

In my opinion, in the concluded contracts there should be a section that provides for the possibility or impossibility of copying the product. The product itself must have a device at the level of unchecked circuits, etc. elements with a self-destruction system, which is included for cases of unauthorized access or when selling weapons, or remotely (from space). And no fawning in front of violators. Traitors to shoot without trial.

[rocket757]

This tramp drags on for a long time .... the costs of ill-conceived secrecy and inner constriction of inventors!
Now, a long time ago it began to come out SIDE! Both people / inventors and industry / country!

[Reserve buildbat]

Remarkably simple "Evgeny Livadny, head of intellectual property projects at Rostec," suggests that our achievements be made public immediately. Indeed, why make spies work, look for information when you can just put it out in the public domain. But there will be "copyright protection". Does anyone else believe in the rule of law on our planet?

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: at84432384

Patenting is a double-edged sword. When patenting (if it does not concern appearance), sometimes you have to reveal the secrets of the technology, which is not great - you can attach some insignificant "bow" and bypass your patent .., and you will hardly be able to control a third-party manufacturer. If the AK barrel alloy had been patented, then all the replicas would be of the same quality as the Russian ones. Yes, there is still such a moment, who is engaged in copying, he does not develop his science and technology and always loses. The Chinese copied the Russian aircraft engine, but the copy's resource is ridiculous. They do not have the technology for manufacturing turbine blades. Everything rests on scientific schools which they do not have.

For the vast majority of examples, you are wrong. There are probably isolated and rare cases in which certain secrets of production are contained in a patent. But this is an exception. And such patents are not published in the open press.

In order for us not to be stolen, we need to carry out the most active patent work. Only then can there be a chance of suppression when you have in your hands a universally recognized patent document. If it is not, go and sniff it in a rag.
But for that. First of all, it is necessary to change the domestic legislation regarding the rules for maintaining state secrets. The fact is that there are documents on the basis of which secrecy stamps are assigned. And this is not just a decision of some official. These are methods for calculating economic damage in the event of disclosure. Thus, under the stamp, will never be eligible for patenting. This is the mistake. The fact is that the patent formulas, ALWAYS (or almost always) do not contain an accurate and specific description of the device, principles, recipes. This is done intentionally. If EXACTLY and in detail described, then the slightest change from the patent formula gives the rogue the right to circumvent the patent and make his own. A more extensive and approximate description, extremely expands the scope of the patent. and complicates the work of a rogue. He already needs to look for super-sophisticated methods, and there are few such talents simultaneously in technology and law.
And, since the patent formula does not contain accuracy, then you should not be afraid of disclosure.
Further. China has long been considered the future adversary of the USSR. And his outright theft was not stopped, because it was believed that this would raise military power and the USSR would threaten it. The USSR, on the contrary, was punished, very severely, and systematically.
An example with the Belarus tractor. Found a borrowing from the French in the distribution box. To avoid the largest fine, the USSR supplied (according to a previously drawn up agreement) to some African country 300 tractors completely free of charge. Since there is no financial benefit, it is not possible to calculate the amount of the fine. Now the situation is improving. China is already considered an economic rival. When they are considered a military rival, China will be chased like a sidor goat, as they chased us. And we need to eliminate our own stupidity. And you can pick secrets faster and more reliably directly from samples, and not from patents.

[exo]

In my opinion, the Chinese "experts" send both Russian and Western copying experts far and for a long time. And they live by the principle: we will steal and steal!

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: exo

In my opinion, the Chinese "experts" send both Russian and Western copying experts far and for a long time. And they live by the principle: we will steal and steal!

Any thief steals while they allow him. When necessary, they will cover it on all sides, and there will be all attempts to punish the dough. Catastrophically large. It will be cheaper to work by law. And everyone will become like everyone else.

If you pay a bribe of an enormous amount in excess of the normal payment, by law, what will you choose?

[Ros 56]

Fools-officials, it is necessary not to consider cases, but to issue patents and to collect billions through the courts. How much did you lose on one AK?

[mag nit]

Hit the copiers with concern!

[Alexey from Perm]

Well so deal with it

[Aleks2000]

Long. och has long been known ...
But money was not needed for patents, but for hacienda in Italy ...

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: mag nit

Hit the copiers with concern!

Duplicators are best hit with rejects in designs.

[DPN]

Yes, the little things are all this. Chinese friends are permissible for them, and without their electronics we will get their own lid that is normal and in all probability is not expected. In the Soviet Union, we supplied them all, only their Sneakers bought there was such a period, now we buy everything from them without China to us.

[Knell wardenheart]

They are still afraid that bourgeois thieves are stealing, and most of them are "allies" (they even steal, it is strongly said - we sell them freely, in small batches)
Yeah, it’s not a nightmare for one’s own country - a head is needed beyond the hillock and not horns)

[Protos]

Quote: RUSS

Without copying, we would not have a TU-4 bomber, a KS tank, a BT-2 tank, a T-26 tank, a PPD machine gun, etc., and not to mention copies of civilian equipment.

Well, all this is an easy life ....
For tanks "Vickers 6 tons" and "Christie's chassis" licenses were purchased with the right to manufacture!
About PPD - Rezun's tales!
By the way, the engine was not purchased from the Christie chassis, it is our aviation engine!