A photo of the Mi-28 attack helicopter that fell in the Kuban

A photo of the Mi-28 attack helicopter crashed in the Kuban appeared on the Web. The board crashed while performing a training flight on December 11 in the area of ​​the village Korenovsk of the Krasnodar Territory.

As can be seen from the picture taken, the helicopter is inverted, with screws on the ground. Judging by the absence in the picture of representatives of emergency services and special equipment, the helicopter was initially in this position after the fall. Most likely, after hitting the ground, the car rolled over and took such a position.

The helicopter was badly damaged, it lies on the ground with screws, the bow is damaged, the wings flew off. Most likely, he caught on the ground with screws when he turned around, judging by the damage

- commented on the fall in emergency services of the Krasnodar Territory.

As previously reported, the Mi-28 Night Hunter helicopter crashed near the city of Korenovsk (2 km from the airfield) during a scheduled flight. According to recent reports, there was a fall in about 23: 00 (Moscow time) on December 11. The preliminary cause of the crash in the Ministry of Defense called difficult weather conditions.

Crew commander Alexander Sklyankin and deputy commander of the Korenovsky flight training regiment and squadron Mi-28 Ruslan Kushnirenko.

A criminal case under Art. 351 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation ("Violation of flight rules or preparation for them"). A special commission established to establish the causes of the incident considers all versions of the incident, including technical malfunction and the human factor.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

Yesterday's tragic messages are the same today ...
Earth rest in peace and the kingdom of heaven. Accept the Lord in your heavenly squad ...

[Starper-xnumx]

Crew commander Alexander Sklyankin and deputy commander of the Korenovsky flight training regiment and squadron Mi-28 Ruslan Kushnirenko.

Eh guys, you rest in peace .. And the turntable is almost a whole .. So only Russian pilots can land .. Probably dohuligany ...

[burigaz2010]

Hi Vitaly, I watch you, too, have been minded.

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: burigaz2010

Hi Vitaly, I watch you, too, have been minded.

Hi Michael ..! Yes, as usual here on the site in the last five years .. hehe
I feel sorry for the pilots, they were cheeky guys .. But the sky does not forgive too arrogant

[Donald72]

Sorry for the pilots, but it’s even a shame for them, neither mountains nor forests. They just crashed on the plain.

[Zik256x]

I live 150 km from Korenovsk, just in these numbers there was a strong fog that did not disperse day or night. And I read the news about this number 12. I think the reason is this.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Zik256x

just in these numbers there was a heavy fog

In this case, there are instruments, in particular an altimeter. Any pilot will say if visibility is limited, or has lost orientation, immediately look at the instruments.

[orionvitt]

Before you fence the garden, with your versions, first start by waiting for the investigation to complete. In particular, I wrote about the fog, you are talking about everything and about nothing.

[Ka-52]

Before you fence the garden, with your versions, first start by waiting for the investigation to complete. In particular, I wrote about the fog, you are talking about everything and about nothing.

drink a sedative if tantrums happen in your bare place. I wrote in response to your nasscanned "argument" about "flights to the SMU. I wonder how often you yourself read that NPP-78?

[orionvitt]

Leave a sedative. I haven’t read the flight operations (I’m an aircraft engine specialist), but I definitely understand that you can’t fly around instruments, there’s nothing to get into the cockpit. You just threw a tantrum yourself, how difficult it is, although this is taught in all flight schools. And the dead pilots were professionals. I don’t know what exactly happened, you are already born versions, from and to, you arrange a hype here ..

[Ka-52]

I haven’t read the flight operations (I’m an aircraft engine specialist), but I definitely understand that you can’t fly around instruments, there’s nothing to get into the cockpit

it is always interesting to observe how the "ehsperts" (on engines), which the throttle does not distinguish from the RUS, begin to puff out their cheeks and talk about HOW to fly in the SMU, what they say is a trifling matter, and in general every VAUL cadet can do it with one left ... ...

[Russia]

Quote: Starper-777

Quote: burigaz2010

Hi Vitaly, I watch you, too, have been minded.

Hi Michael ..! Yes, as usual here on the site in the last five years .. hehe
I feel sorry for the pilots, they were cheeky guys .. But the sky does not forgive too arrogant

Greetings namesake Everything could be and everything happened as it happened. Let's leave the compliments for the bourgeois pilots, although they are human. The main thing now is a fond memory for them and that the results of the investigation do not affect the further well-being and life of families without a breadwinner. The namesake, as an example: at the end of the nineties I had a worker in years, so it happened that his daughter’s husband was a police officer and he was on duty at the same time, that is, he left on call, he kept an armed reptile and was mortally wounded at the entrance of a residential building. As a result, a magnificent funeral, and then the deprivation of pensions and payments for the loss of a breadwinner, they found alcohol at the autopsy. So this is me to the fact that in our life there is always a place for a feat. And the right and the guilty in this part, still need to be respected.

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: Rusland

As a result, a magnificent funeral, and then the deprivation of pensions and payments for the loss of a breadwinner, they found alcohol at the autopsy.

This is often alas ..

Quote: Rusland

So this is me to the fact that in our life there is always a place for a feat. And the right and the guilty in this part, still need to be honored

There are many of them in Russia .. Many people are torn into battle when "our media" listen .. and bite them with their teeth .. This is how things are going
Train on the verge of real fighting ..

[AU Ivanov.]

Swine, of course, the deprivation of pensions, on the grounds that the policeman was a fool. Then our veterans can be deprived of awards - they also received 100 grams of people's commissars before the attack.

[tomket]

Quote: Starper-777

Sorry for the pilots, daring men to see were ..

What does zero visibility have to do with your comment?

[Pete mitchell]

Earth you rest in peace ...

Quote: Starper-777

Probably dohuligany ...

You said stupidity, it was appropriate to keep silent at least, and not ...
Of course, pilots are dashing people, but they don’t keep idiots there, so that bully in SMU near the ground.

[businessv]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

You said stupidity, it was appropriate to keep silent at least,

A colleague, a man expressed his opinion, without discrediting the memory of the dead, he rest in peace! Therefore, you were in vain about stupidity, but you could have laughed at an acceptable height, as a result of which you were close to the ground - there is equipment, it could well fail. Let’s at least not insult each other.

[gurzuf]

A colleague just needs to analyze what he reads. Elementary. No offense.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: businessv

the man expressed his opinion, without discrediting the memory of the dead

The thought expressed in this way is already insulting, for the reason that has already been voiced - they do not disorderly mind; or belongs to a nearby person, without hints. People died, you have to be careful with expressing opinions

[brat07]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Quote: businessv

the man expressed his opinion, without discrediting the memory of the dead

The thought expressed in this way is already insulting, for the reason that has already been voiced - they do not disorderly mind; or belongs to a nearby person, without hints. People died, you have to be careful with expressing opinions

Remember the flight of Chkalov under the bridge?
Is it hooliganism or what?

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: brat07

Remember the flight of Chkalov under the bridge? Is it hooliganism or what?

If I am not mistaken, then at that time it was regarded as hooliganism and Chkalov was punished.

[Starper-xnumx]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

You said stupidity, it was appropriate to keep silent at least, and not ...

I’m not used to being silent .. the men made their choice and punished themselves .. this happens with us in the Russian Army!

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Pilots, of course, people are dashing, but they don’t keep idiots there to disorderly conduct in the SMU near the ground.

I would also play a fool in the fighting too ..

[NN52]

Starper-xnumx
Enough here already "nonsense" to carry about pilots ... No one will ever "hooligan" NIGHT! In SMU! Moreover, almost zero visibility, a "hard" fog. Suicides are not kept in aviation.

Earth rest in peace for the guys ...

[LiSiCyn]

Your version?
My opinion of an amateur, they shied away from obstruction and touched the ground. Moreover, not at speed.

[NN52]

Stas
"not at speed .." - how's that? and at what speed?

[LiSiCyn]

Dmitriy
Just judging by the damage, it seemed to me that they were walking low, looking for landmarks. And when they saw an obstacle (possibly a power line), the commander laid a bend, well ...
I’m not sideways to aviation, so the thoughts are rumored.
P.S. I’ll ask my friend, he’s a bomber MI-24 Nivenskoye, already retired.

[Svarog51]

Stas Not much lower Dmitry explained in more detail. Take a look.

[Doliva63]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Your version?
My opinion of an amateur, they shied away from obstruction and touched the ground. Moreover, not at speed.

One of the options is that the power lines are hooked. And yes, they crawled very slowly.

[smart ass]

Yes he is a sick old man do not swear at him

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Starper-777

Not used to being silent ..

Do you know this is useful sometimes, look better. Are you a specialist? Have experience in organizing flight work? Wait for at least preliminary results.

[smart ass]

Do not swear at him it is senile

[Flooding]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

I had your kingdom ... And the Lord, too, and the squad there.

Behave appropriately. Not at the bazaar.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

You're right. Sorry, incurred.

[Hunter 2]

Sorry Pilots! And after all, not newcomers ... I am sorry for the Families and Relatives of the dead!

[ul_vitalii]

Weather conditions, fog. Let them be at the forefront in the investigation. And even, according to statistics, in the energy sector many injured and experienced workers die, so to speak, attention and discipline in terms of safety are dulled. My condolences to family and friends.

[loki565]

The cockpit does not seem to be much damaged, like the helicopter itself. There was infa that one pilot was in the cockpit, the other next to the helicopter, maybe tried to crawl ...

[venik]

Quote: loki565

one pilot was in the cockpit, the other next to the helicopter, maybe tried to crawl away ...

========
Rather, it was thrown out of the cab upon impact on the ground ..... It’s a pity for the men - Eternal memory to them!

[Petrix]

Quote: venik

Rather, it was thrown out of the cab upon impact on the ground .....

How can a seatbelt be thrown out of the cab? This is the design to blame or production. Rather, overload on impact is incompatible with life. Well, or weren't fastened?

[venik]

Quote: Petrix

How can a seatbelt be thrown out of the cab?

=========
Yes - for FREE! This is not a car! The blow may be such that with belts can pull out !!! If the bulletproof glasses have already flown out ..... IN THIS situation - to survive - UNREALABLE !!! MAN is not a "terminator" !!!
Once again - Eternal Memory!

[Avis24]

Cabins in the trash.

[TARS_LOL]

Something, somehow it’s already lying neatly. But did the pilots do no loop or barrel before the crash? Maybe the cause of the crash is negligence and show off the pilot?

[Locksmith]

Quote: TARS_LOL

Something, somehow it’s already lying neatly. But did the pilots do no loop or barrel before the crash? Maybe the cause of the crash is negligence and show off the pilot?

The position is typical for a helicopter landing on autorotation. most likely, the tail rotor refused, began to turn and while descending exceeded the rate of descent - he hit the propeller, the blades fired back, but the last blade finally turned the carcass over. Why did the pilots die - most likely they were not tied, landing on autorotation is a standard technique, requires high self-control and "iron" eggs. When the machine rotates, it is difficult to determine in space. IMHO.

[TARS_LOL]

Come on? And have you seen a lot of helicopters lying exactly belly up to the sky, trying to land on an autorization?

[loki565]

Come on? And have you seen a lot of helicopters lying exactly belly up to the sky, trying to land on an autorization?

Although, rather, in conditions of poor visibility, he poked his nose into the ground with a coup on the main rotor.

[Locksmith]

single-rotor always turn over-if they land with a slope, do not care for ailerons there or pitch = this is a specificity, if you do not shoot the blades in advance, before landing, and this is nonsense.

[Avis24]

Child, you would read the theory of aerodynamics of a helicopter. Author ROMasevich

[Locksmith]

There is such a crap, pilots call "blade stop" - this is when the blades have already lost energy and stop spinning. Although the blade is spinning like one, it has a pair, a PAIR OF FORCES as physicists say, forgive me for the notation ... the acting force is simply huge, I already said above, for a model with a 1.5 meter rotolrom, a force of 500 kg acts on the blade, while the steam is spinning, all the rules, but when the blade flies off = everything immediately becomes bad .. This is nichrome not a model. there are already tons of acting, and this imbalance at once turns the carcass lightly - the forces and mass are proportionate !!!

[NN52]

Locksmith (Sergey)
I don’t think that the guys did not buckle up before raising the car into the air ... This is nonsense ..
And one moment is even more incomprehensible, "they write" that the body of one pilot was on the ground 100-150 meters from the fallen side ...

[Okolotochny]

Dim, hi, my eldest friend of mine serves in this regiment. He also says that the second lay about 300 meters away. Dim, but this helicopter seems to have a survival system for emergency landing. Or am I wrong?

[NN52]

Hi
There are .. fired blades, cockpit doors, special inflatable ladders .. and a good Pamir-K chair (like ..) - "energy-absorbing" in conjunction with energy-absorbing landing gear .... But it all works if the pilot "pulled" the handles ( I'm not a helicopter pilot) ...
And in this case ... "they say ..", they hooked the ground with screws when turning ... and more .. "they say" about glasses ..........
So here, a couple of seconds and a "mouthful of earth" - as we say ...

[Locksmith]

HZ, but in the photo the whole cabin. To break the vertebrae of the neck - once or twice, ammunition for pilots is quite difficult if it is not tied - or untied early - there is a place to be an option.

[Locksmith]

Quote: NN52

I don’t think that the guys did not buckle up before raising the car into the air ..

Rather, they unfastened early, like they do not believe in technology, they live (lived) the old fashioned way

[Avis24]

no, it wasn't like that

[NN52]

I did not fly helicopters ... How are they?

[Pete mitchell]

52, the plane is easier honestly

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: TARS_LOL

Something, somehow it’s already lying neatly. But did the pilots do no loop or barrel before the crash? Maybe the cause of the crash is negligence and show off the pilot?

Why immediately show off? In 2015, the Mi-28 helicopter crashed at an air show near Ryazan, one of the pilots died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oojtp0ZY3nY

[tomket]

Quote: TARS_LOL

Maybe the cause of the crash is negligence and show off the pilot?

The reason is thick fog. If not tasteful, the helicopter stopped flying and landed on the reserve site and the crew changed to a more experienced one, for distillation to the location of the unit.

[Lone gunman]

Guilty pilots ... as always. The dead are not judged. Land they rest in peace. I feel sorry for my family.

[pavelty]

Apparently the deputy was taken out for confirmation, bad weather conditions (on the other hand, who gave the weather?), Everything turned out badly and ended ... aviation is a complicated and dangerous technique

[donavi49]

This is not just the Mi-28N, but the latest UB - 4 vehicles received the regiment this year. Here's the story, the full-time crew could not sit at the base and sat in the gap of the foggy front. A car was sent there and the most experienced pilots tried to overtake the helicopter to the base.

[Oleg1263]

There was really a very heavy fog in the region that day, and the roads were also difficult. It's also dark ... But the name of the car is "Night Hunter"

[pavelty]

Yes, what then is the point in bad weather conditions to take off again? Wait for the guard, what problems? Died out of the blue ... hello regiment commander

[Dude]

Yeah, the decision of the first crew to go to the emergency turned out to be prophetic ...
Earth is heaven ...

[k174oun7]

I agree 100%. The commander of the regular crew correctly assessed the situation and performed an emergency safe landing. The major and the captain are far from newcomers and it seems that the equipment on the helicopter did not allow to land the car on the runway normally under these conditions. And then the human factor and the decision: "We must return the helicopter to the airfield." The new crew was possibly more experienced, but the equipment did not improve its characteristics from this. Com will answer for the wrong decision. regiment, but the pilots cannot be returned. He sent people to take unnecessary risks, and the officers agreed. Condolences to the loved ones of the victims.

[Livonetc]

The car itself does not look much destroyed.
Cockpit intact.
The chassis is visually intact.
According to the damage to the bow, it is possible to assume that the car turned over through the bow.
I do not understand the features in this area, but.
What could cause both pilots to die?

[Gray brother]

Quote: Livonetc

What could cause both pilots to die?

From the blow. Instant overload.

[Locksmith]

Quote: Gray Brother

From the blow. Instant overload.

No, they could not, the helicopter looks whole. This model is designed for landing with high overload - it has all the elements intact, including the chassis. It seems he was planted in autorotation mode, and the pilots died - from the fact that they were not attached. At the very end, when it started to chat, and when the scary bobbing was tearing off the blades one by one, it’s important to be tied, otherwise it’ll simply spread across the walls. IMHO.

[JD1979]

Quote: Locksmith

No, they could not, the helicopter looks whole. This model is designed for landing with high overload - it has all the elements intact, including the chassis

This is if the blow to the ground falls on the bottom, then the shock-absorbing seats will work to absorb the overload, and if the nose, side or whatever - they are useless.

[Locksmith]

The helicopter shows the destruction of the bottom - so it rotated at the time of the fall, otherwise it would have been just a crumple, but outwardly it is whole, again, the suspension worked out, he turned over from the fact that one of the blades remained, if on a model with a rotor of 1500 mm , the weight of one blade is 200 g, the moment of pulling the blade in different directions is 500 kg, at a speed of 2200 \ min, what can we say about a full-sized vert, give the weight of the blade, I will calculate the moment !! This is a scary thing at all !!

[tomket]

Quote: Livonetc

According to the damage to the bow, it is possible to assume that the car turned over through the bow.

The tail is partially broken and the tail wheel is missing.

[burigaz2010]

Say thank Milevtsi. This stuff was shoved, ruining the beautiful Ka52. Mi28 constantly has problems, then the gearbox, or it turns out they forgot to put duplicate controls in the navigator’s cabin. That NV glasses are to blame. And KB has nothing to do with it! Guys have eternal memory !!!

[donavi49]

Ka has the same GEO ONV-1 points as on Mi. Since the 80s, only the photocathode has been changed, and then, it is limited to 18mm.

Compared to modern projection systems with external sensors (for example, a helmet, with large cathodes), this is simply Neolithic.

[burigaz2010]

Yeah, okay, I agree about the glasses. And the gearbox, and the duplicate control? And there are still a lot of problems. Remind me how old this pepelats sawing? And here he falls and falls. Killer pilots! How many of them died!

[donavi49]

Well, this one was specifically UB - that is, with completely duplicated controls.

[loki565]

Say thank Milevtsi. This stuff was shoved, ruining the beautiful Ka52. Mi28 constantly has problems, then the gearbox, or it turns out they forgot to put duplicate controls in the navigator’s cabin. That NV glasses are to blame. And KB has nothing to do with it! Guys have eternal memory !!!

Very biased opinion. Usually what kind of TK was such a management was done, duplicates were requested, delivered. I doubt that the NV points on the Ka52 would be very different.
During exploitation, shortcomings are revealed, then they are eliminated. In the same way, on Ka52 he managed to shoot his nose through himself.

There was also a circuit closure with the launch of missiles according to journalists.

[burigaz2010]

Dear I had no time to delve into the Internet, I came from the night. Answer the question, why mi28 fall regularly, and Ka52 not?

[loki565]

The number of Ka 52 and Mi 28, the number of flight hours, this is the answer to your question. Judging by that, the Mi8 with all its modifications has a bad helicopter, because there are many accidents, and Ansant has no good accidents.

[burigaz2010]

Would give the Kamovites this money that went to refine this misunderstanding, that would be a masterpiece!

[Piramidon]

Quote: burigaz2010

Say thank Milevtsi. This stuff was shoved, ruining the beautiful Ka52

What do you mean by the word "ruined", especially the Milians? The Ka-52 is included in the GOZ, is manufactured and is in service.

[burigaz2010]

Well, yes, after the indicative accidents 28. Where to go!

[pavelty]

Calm down already a Kamov fan who has come with a night one, excellent specialists work in both firms, and aviation accidents / disasters occur on various types of equipment, for various reasons ...

[TARS_LOL]

Quote: burigaz2010

Say thank Milevtsi. This stuff was shoved, ruining the beautiful Ka52. Mi28 constantly has problems, then the gearbox, or it turns out they forgot to put duplicate controls in the navigator’s cabin. That NV glasses are to blame. And KB has nothing to do with it! Guys have eternal memory !!!

No need to say. Russia has adopted a helicopter with childhood diseases, this is, so to speak, the order of things. And here is how the Americans finish the F-35 from these diseases, so there was a howl right away, drank dough and all that.

[Al Asad]

Quote: TARS_LOL

Quote: burigaz2010

Say thank Milevtsi. This stuff was shoved, ruining the beautiful Ka52. Mi28 constantly has problems, then the gearbox, or it turns out they forgot to put duplicate controls in the navigator’s cabin. That NV glasses are to blame. And KB has nothing to do with it! Guys have eternal memory !!!

No need to say. Russia has adopted a helicopter with childhood diseases, this is, so to speak, the order of things. And here is how the Americans finish the F-35 from these diseases, so there was a howl right away, drank dough and all that.

Do Americans have at least one person killed in F-35 crashes? No!
We do not spare people at all. However, they never regretted. These are not the children of military officials or designers sitting at the controls, don’t understand what, not a helicopter

[Kaw]

Do Americans have at least one person killed in F-35 crashes? No!
We do not spare people at all. However, they never regretted. These are not the children of military officials or designers sitting at the controls, don’t understand what, not a helicopter

For that, many Americans died in the accident of the Apache helicopter (this is them, the American analogue of the Mi-28). And in our accident during the Su-57 accident, not a single person was killed (pah-pah-pah).

[Kirill Dou]

American analogue of Mi-28)

- rather, vice versa

[gurzuf]

And the Japanese accidentally crashed on f-35?

[Bshkaus]

And in our accident during the Su-57 accident, not a single person was killed (pah-pah-pah).

So the plane has not really been adopted yet, recall how many Su-57s were produced?
But if it becomes the most massive in the world, like a Mi-8 helicopter, then according to statistics it will fight almost every day.

[NN52]

Hi!
Well, about every day a little bent)))

[figwam]

Quote: Al Asad

The Americans at least one person died in accidents F-35

Last year, an F-35 pilot crashed in South Carolina, a catapult saved, and this year it crashed in Japan, the pilot died and seven more emergency situations entailed an emergency landing, and this is from 13 new aircraft that entered service with Japan.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Al Asad

Do Americans have at least one person killed in F-35 crashes?

The Eponets died.

[burigaz2010]

Dear you are not in the subject? The penguin had no analogues. And mi28, which was not only raw but not ready at all, already had ka52, then there were no kams under it, and here it was. In general, the lobby won the mile. As a result, we have what we have, dead pilots !!!

[pavelty]

Enough is enough, dear infantryman, to carry nonsense)) As you already wrote above, both helicopters for GOZ are delivered to the Russian Aerospace Forces and only the RF Ministry of Defense will determine how many helicopters like Ka or Mi will be delivered under the contract ... some lobby, it's not even funny

[Bshkaus]

and only the Russian Ministry of Defense will determine how many helicopters like Ka or Mi will be delivered under the contract ... some lobby, not even funny

Have you ever dealt with local military representatives? Do you know how they behave and what the military are doing at enterprises, especially those where there are conflicts and graters behind a controlling stake?
This was even written in the newspaper of the military industrial complex, it seems that in 2015 the article was strong, but what a long way to go, I myself at the factory a year ago, the prosecutor’s office arrested a representative of the VP a new year.
The question is whether corruption is being organized for personal gain, or is it complicity in a larger-scale scheme, including work for a competing supplier.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Bshkaus

and only the Russian Ministry of Defense will determine how many helicopters like Ka or Mi will be delivered under the contract ... some lobby, not even funny

Have you ever dealt with local military representatives?

The question is whether corruption is being organized for personal gain, or is it complicity in a larger-scale scheme, including work for a competing supplier.

Man, you have a logic problem.

You were told that the number and composition of the RF Armed Forces purchased is determined by the Moscow Region.

You begin to rub about military representatives ... exactly all the rules? IMHO no.

[Bshkaus]

You were told that the number and composition of the RF Armed Forces purchased is determined by the Moscow Region.

Thanks, I'm not complaining.

Ka or Mi will be delivered under a contract ... some lobby, not even funny

If you do not sensibly expressed your point of view, I'm sorry.

I explain again on the fingers:
Option 1
There is an enterprise A producing products of X.
There is an enterprise B producing products U, which in its properties is similar to products X.
Enterprise B turns to the Moscow Region with a request to make a choice in favor of the product U, although it is inferior in some parameters to the product X for a small fee to decision-makers.

Option 2
When not a ride Option 1
The RF Ministry of Defense selects products X from enterprise A as a supplier, but enterprise B does not agree with this.
Then, company B turns directly to the military representative of enterprise A and asks for a small fee to disrupt the supply.
Under the deliberate pretext, the products X are not accepted, the delivery is interrupted and the Moscow Region is forced to sign a new contract with enterprise B for the product U.

In both cases, the participants in this scheme do not give a damn about the fact that the disadvantage of the product was the lack of a crew rescue system (read the bailout system) since women still give birth.

If we talk about specific examples, then under Serdyukov, the vehicle fleet was almost completely replaced, and KAMAZ became the main truck, but quite by accident, the head of KAMAZ turned out to be Serdyukov's long-standing korish.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Bshkaus

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation chooses products X as a supplier ... Under the deliberate pretext, products X are not accepted, delivery is interrupted and the MO is forced to sign a new contract with enterprise B for product

Give an example from the life of such a feint, at least one ... and I will believe you.

So far - I don’t believe, moreover, I will say that your "scheme 2" has nothing to do with reality.

[Edik]

Bshkaus
All new equipment is being completed, modernized during operation, getting rid of childhood diseases, so to speak! There is nothing more than ideal in this world! For me it’s so right that we have preserved two helicopter schools. And it’s better not to decide which is worse!

[Nick Russ]

“The choice of the Mi-28N was obvious. It is well known that when creating a new machine, there is a certain threshold for the use of new technical solutions - 30%; if it is exceeded, the probability of launching into series rapidly decreases. The Ka-52 is a truly revolutionary helicopter that does not The Mi-28N, on the contrary, is an evolutionary development of the Mi-24 or, if you like, the Mi-8, with all the ensuing advantages.Moreover, the new solutions successfully migrate from the Mi-28 to earlier models, increasing their operational properties. For example, the Mi-24 now has main rotor propellers with maintenance-free elastomeric hinges instead of the earlier three-pivot screws that require periodic lubrication.Unification of the whole systems and assemblies allows the Mi-28N to be placed in the Mi-8 and Mi-24 locations without serious financial investments. All this is reasonable from an economic point of view, and therefore the choice of the Mi-28N as the main attack helicopter is quite natural. "
That’s the answer why Mi-28, not Ka-52

[NN52]

Bshkaus

Well, anything happens ....

[Bshkaus]

Well, anything happens ....

Greetings, long time no see)))
And here I am fighting on all fronts, trying to convey the point of view that the pilot should have the right to try to escape (((

[NN52]

It should be .... but you have not figured out how to realize this right in a couple of seconds ...)

[Al Asad]

Too often, this helicopter crashes.
Over the past 5 years, I think he crashed five times for non-military reasons

[rufaqn]

This model did not go at all, it doesn’t take root in the army, there are no export orders at all, that’s not at the request, as a “night hunter”, but in real combat work it is inferior to the Mi-24/35, not to mention KA 52, well, in fairness for KA more expensive, but Mi24 is also cheaper than MI 28

[figwam]

Quote: rufaqn

no export orders at all

Algerian and Iraqi Mi-28 did not know about this)))

[rufaqn]

No, the media only orders for the Mi-24/35 and the Egyptian Ka52 have not been implemented yet, well, if there are agreements of intent on the 28th, then this is nothing, give a link if there is, but on the lack of export, on 28: enlightened Aviation forum users.

[donavi49]

Well, actually the Mi-28 is more exportally successful.

Algerian:
On May 26, 2016, one of the Algerian air bases from Russia delivered the first two of the Mi-28NE combat helicopters built for Algeria.
As you know, Rosoboronexport JSC signed a contract for the supply of Algeria on December 26, 2013 42 dual-control Mi-28NE helicopters sold by Rostvertol.

Here they are even trying to break it.


Iraq - paid and received 15 cars, another 16 in option but not activated yet (because the war is over).

[figwam]

While you were in suspended animation these years

JSC Rosoboronexport signed a contract on December 26, 2013 for the supply of 42 Mi-28NE helicopters to Algeria, sold by JSC Rostvertol. Algeria became the second foreign customer of Mi-28NE helicopters after Iraq, which ordered 15 aircraft in 2012. Algerian Mi-28NEs are made in the "product 299" version with dual control (similar to the Mi-28UB modification) and are equipped with an N025E overhead radar. The first six helicopters under this contract were delivered to Algeria in May-June 2016.

And the Iraqi also managed to fight against igil.

[Fraracol_2]

Quite a whole, maybe there was a small chance for someone to stay alive. Already from what happened fragments of living pulled out. Bad luck.

[Bshkaus]

Pretty whole, maybe there was a little chance for someone to stay alive

I recommend that you read the book by A.S. Barrera "The Limit of Tolerance, Volume 1", when you get acquainted with the concept of "shock overload", you will understand that there was no chance.

[NN52]

I agree .... 10 tons at 250 km / h, it's tin ... "bag of bones" ....

[Fraracol_2]

Tons to do with it. They were not crushed by the helicopter itself. And by 250 km the helicopter itself would have collapsed more. Perhaps poorly thought out ensuring the survivability of the crew in such situations (depreciation, belts, safety panels and skins, etc.)?

[NN52]

Fraancol_2 (Paul)

But the man wrote to you above about shock overloads ...
Try on V 150-250 km / h on a car in a concrete wall to "come" ... provided that you are naturally fastened, you have an armored capsule ... You will sit in a chair "as if alive", but in fact "a bag with broken bones ". This is if, in simple terms, about shock overloads ...

[Petrix]

There are still nothing to do with tons. What matters is a person’s weight and speed. And speed is destruction upon impact. The helicopter was not badly damaged, the cockpit is intact, which means there was no special speed. Most likely they were not fastened, and there is no need for speed when talking.

[NN52]

Petrix (Alexey)
Yes, how much can you explain .... tired already .... and the "man" wrote here that "the cabin is in the trash" ... Do you understand what an armored capsule is?
And forget about the word "unfastened", this is not a kindergarten for you ...

[TARS_LOL]

Although, rather, in conditions of poor visibility, he poked his nose into the ground with a coup on the main rotor. [/ Quote]
And the pilot’s altitude gauge for what? For beauty during low visibility and at low altitude?

[Piramidon]

Quote: TARS_LOL

And the pilot’s altitude gauge for what? For beauty during low visibility and at low altitude?

Heights The measure does not take into account obstacles in the form of small elevations, power lines, buildings ...

[Bshkaus]

And the pilot’s altitude gauge for what? For beauty during low visibility and at low altitude?

Do you know how an altimeter works?
I can’t say for sure the type of altimeter on the Mi-28, but if it is barometric, then it shows the height conditionally since Depends on atmospheric pressure here and now. When landing, the pilot is given the ground pressure of the airfield, which is taken as the height of zero on a particular runway. An international table of atmospheric pressure at different heights can be easily found on the Internet or in specialized literature.
If we are talking about a radio altimeter, although it shows the true height, it is also tied to the position of the aircraft in space, which is assumed to be horizontal. This is not parking sensors on a car, showing obstacle distances of 120 degrees.
And how many times planes in the mountains fought in batches and it is not necessary to speak.

[TARS_LOL]

Quote: burigaz2010

Dear you are not in the subject? The penguin had no analogues. And mi28, which was not only raw but not ready at all, already had ka52, then there were no kams under it, and here it was. In general, the lobby won the mile. As a result, we have what we have, dead pilots !!!

Well, what am I talking about. They adopted a crude car, and also drove something against the Americans. Double standards, they are.

[Kaw]

The practical helicopter is intact, the crew died. It’s strange.

[SASHA OLD]

Quote: Kaw

The practical helicopter is intact, the crew died. It’s strange.

Yes, nothing strange: shock loads - they had no chance unfortunately ...

[TARS_LOL]

Quote: Kaw

Do Americans have at least one person killed in F-35 crashes? No!
We do not spare people at all. However, they never regretted. These are not the children of military officials or designers sitting at the controls, don’t understand what, not a helicopter

For that, many Americans died in the accident of the Apache helicopter (this is them, the American analogue of the Mi-28). And in our accident during the Su-57 accident, not a single person was killed (pah-pah-pah).

And the fact that Apache about 2000 pieces (if my memory serves me right) did you decide to quietly keep silent? The more units, the greater the loss in operation, you did not know? The same thing with the Su-57, there are only 10 of them, and the F-35 has already been assembled for 500 pieces. These numbers speak for themselves.

[TARS_LOL]

Quote: figvam

Quote: rufaqn

no export orders at all

Algerian and Iraqi Mi-28 did not know about this)))

There wasn’t enough money for normal helicopters, so they took this misunderstanding.

[Zaurbek]

And it looks so whole ....

[Chs4t]

My heart bleeds as helicopters fall. The pilot must have the right to save lives, if this right is absent, the aircraft turns into a flying coffin despite all its excellent characteristics.
If it were my will, I would completely forbid the production of Mi-24 and Mi-28 without ejection systems, and if they cannot be delivered, then such army helicopters are not needed.
We live in the 21st century; bailout systems have already been developed that are implemented on the K-52.
Take cars as an example, 20 years ago in our country cars with "airbags" and ABS were considered a luxury, but now the absence of these systems even in the basic configuration is puzzling, and sometimes we even consider the drivers of Volga and Zhiguli to be kamikazes.
We must learn not only how to create excellent weapons, but also truly appreciate the life of a person, especially a military man.
Let's be honest, the suspension seat on the Mi-28 only serves as complacency with a controlled hard landing. In other cases, it is useless.

[Shahno]

Quote: figvam

Quote: Al Asad

The Americans at least one person died in accidents F-35

Last year, an F-35 pilot crashed in South Carolina, a catapult saved, and this year it crashed in Japan, the pilot died and seven more emergency situations entailed an emergency landing, and this is from 13 new aircraft that entered service with Japan.

In this situation, do not get along without loss.
Therefore, it’s a little silly to blame for failures that are mi 28, that f 35.
Soon, I think, the same garbage will be with an increase in production and supply of su 57 ..
PS. In a sense, stories in breakthrough technologies and technology are written in blood, for the time being.

[Shahno]

Quote: tomket

Quote: TARS_LOL

Maybe the cause of the crash is negligence and show off the pilot?

The reason is thick fog. If not tasteful, the helicopter stopped flying and landed on the reserve site and the crew changed to a more experienced one, for distillation to the location of the unit.

And then in a hurry. Or does the fog freeze for a month?

[Okolotochny]

The fog stood for 2 days. On the day of the tragedy from lunch and all the next day with more than one.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Shahno

Or does the fog freeze for a month?

even for a month ... why in such conditions to invent something ??? as a result, the pilots died, and they killed the helicopter !!!

[brace]

Are there any helicopter pilots in your comments? "Got hooligan ??". I'm not a helicopter pilot, but I know. An overturned helicopter means the engines were out of action prior to the fall. So all helicopters. Therefore, in many models, blades are shot.

[Avis24]

In which many?

[Shahno]

Quote: brace

Are there any helicopter pilots in your comments? "Got hooligan ??". I'm not a helicopter pilot, but I know. An overturned helicopter means the engines were out of action prior to the fall. So all helicopters. Therefore, in many models, blades are shot.

Not a helicopter pilot. But he participated in the design of the T 700.
For a helicopter (// An inverted helicopter means that the engines did not work before the crash. So for all helicopters. //) this is far from the case.

[Shahno]

Quote: NN52

Starper-xnumx
Enough here already "nonsense" to carry about pilots ... No one will ever "hooligan" NIGHT! In SMU! Moreover, almost zero visibility, a "hard" fog. Suicides are not kept in aviation.

Earth rest in peace for the guys ...

Yes there are guys there. They will figure it out without our opinion ..
And so it is. There is, of course, a human factor.
In any case, it’s a pity that good pilots die. Professionals. No matter what nationality ..

[jekasimf]

The cabin is intact, provided that it is all armored, there was no fire and explosion, it is strange that the crew was still dead.

[Dikson]

The crew is a pity. condolences to relatives and colleagues .. And so of course nonsense. Blind night hunter ..

[vladcub]

Earth down dead.
The "human factor" is a loose concept: a piloting error, but the deputy regiment commander for flight training is already experienced and should not make mistakes. Perhaps pre-flight preparation?

[Piramidon]

Quote: vladcub

deputy regiment commander for flight training, already experienced and should not be mistaken.

According to statistics, the lion's share of accidents and disasters associated with the so-called. The "human factor" is accounted for by highly qualified pilots who decided that their personal experience is more important than all instructions and instructions. As the Commander of the Air Force of the Northern Fleet Victor Pavlovich Potapov said during the analysis of one of the disasters in our regiment, when such an "ace" killed not only himself, but also 10 more crew members - "FLYED ... (unprintable expressions)!"

[vladcub]

I heard about it, but I thought, chatter

[dmmyak40]

Alas, beginners and experienced pilots make the most mistakes. Moreover, experienced often make mistakes in simple situations. For example, tune the ARC to a frequency not of BPRM, but of the ODS of another aerodrome. And then confirm the flight of the OPS without its passage (the arrow did not fall, but simply went to the side).

[vladcub]

Quote: TARS_LOL

Quote: figvam

Quote: rufaqn

no export orders at all

Algerian and Iraqi Mi-28 did not know about this)))

There wasn’t enough money for normal helicopters, so they took this misunderstanding.

Actually Miles quality car

[Shahno]

Quote: Okolotochny

The fog stood for 2 days. On the day of the tragedy from lunch and all the next day with more than one.

And that in a week it was impossible to rise. Or was there an order?

[Pavel57]

Pilots sincerely sorry, even more sorry for their loved ones.
But what it was, a pilot error or a refusal - it’s definitely not possible to say today.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Kaw

The practical helicopter is intact, the crew died. It’s strange.

I’ve never seen it before - the car flew into the ditch, turned over 4 times, apparently only crumpled slightly, but inside 4 corpses?

[Starper-xnumx]

How did everyone get excited about a banal accident during exercises .. in the Army!
Yes, there are victims, and what is such a horrendous beginning ..?
Whining and whining here .. hehe

[Piramidon]

Quote: Starper-777

..he hehe

Are you having fun Your insanity grows stronger, Vitalik. Finally fly off the coils.

[Pete mitchell]

You correctly formulate: do not excited, but were indignant. What do you ask? Maybe because a person does not understand the difference between accident и disaster speaks disrespectfully of the dead. Think and find the answers

[Aleks1973]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Pilots, of course, people are dashing, but they don’t keep idiots there to disorderly conduct near the ground in SMU

Seen from aviation you are very far! Enough of all sorts and in different quantities!

[NN52]

Alex1973 (Alexey)

You shouldn’t be so, Alexey .... He is still in aviation ...
What did you finish, flight? What would someone so condemn? Smart ...

[Pete mitchell]

NN52, thanks, because I was busy here, not far from the planet.

Quote: Alex1973

Enough of all sorts and in different quantities!

Of course there is enough, but I recommend watching the glorious combat path of the Korenovsky regiment - anything happens there, but they seem to have not missed a single conflict over the decades, there the people "christened" repeatedly. From there, for example, the leader of the Berkuts left ...

Quote: Alex1973

Seen from aviation you are very far

I understand that you very close to aviation, backfill question: what kind of plane is on my avatar? Answer to the studio

[Doliva63]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

NN52, thanks, because I was busy here, not far from the planet.

Quote: Alex1973

Enough of all sorts and in different quantities!

Of course there is enough, but I recommend watching the glorious combat path of the Korenovsky regiment - anything happens there, but they seem to have not missed a single conflict over the decades, there the people "christened" repeatedly. From there, for example, the leader of the Berkuts left ...

Quote: Alex1973

Seen from aviation you are very far

I understand that you very close to aviation, backfill question: what kind of plane is on my avatar? Answer to the studio

Skuuzmi, I interfere, but the "door" opens like that, like, at the L-39 and MiG-21, doesn't it?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Both the L-39 and the Mig-21, I really did not fly on it, but the prize goes away

Quote: dmmyak40

Yes, and the color approach mit ...

I honestly wanted to wait for an answer from a friend 'who knows better', 1973. Sorry to admit, but it has been a long time.

I, too, this lamp from the distant beginning of the 80s surfaced, so I got excited, sorry

[Pete mitchell]

God be with you, I was expecting a response from a comrade who close to aviation. Although, as you can see, the question was simple. Specifically, this call sign is Pony 1.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

God be with you, I was expecting a response from a comrade who close to aviation. Although, as you can see, the question was simple. Specifically, this call sign is Pony 1.

You can be close to aviation in different ways.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Doliva63

You can be close to aviation in different ways.

Maybe you're right. Therefore, it seems to me, we will wait for the results of the investigation

[dmmyak40]

Interesting ... looks like some kind of TCB or aerobatics from Italy. Yes, and the color is right ...

[Tavrik]

Aviators, explain to me, the land investigator, what is the need for a 23-hour flight in difficult weather conditions for the regiment commander to pilot a helicopter with a deputy?

[NN52]

And here it is, the commission will establish ... Kompolka ... already not the kompolka))))

[Doliva63]

Quote: Tavrik

Aviators, explain to me, the land investigator, what is the need for a 23-hour flight in difficult weather conditions for the regiment commander to pilot a helicopter with a deputy?

There was no com. Regiment there. There were deputies for the flight regiment and the AE. And the reason could be banal - "closing" the plan table. Well, like, the flights are over tip-top. The regiment is, in fact, the "leader" in AA, everything should be "beautiful". So they paid, damn it.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: NN52

And here it is, the commission will establish ... Kompolka ... already not the kompolka))))

Quote: Doliva63

There was no regiment ...

but it doesn’t exclude that he is no longer the Commander’s Regiment ..

[Doliva63]

".. the commander of the crew, Alexander Sklyankin, and the deputy commander of the Korenovsk regiment for flight training and the Mi-28 squadron, Ruslan Kushnirenko." Well, you can't write so illiterately, however. The first time I understood: the crew commander and the deputy commander of the regiment were killed. But in fact: the deputy commander of the regiment and the deputy commander. There is some kind of military disarray.

[dmmyak40]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Earth you rest in peace ...

Quote: Starper-777

Probably dohuligany ...

You said stupidity, it was appropriate to keep silent at least, and not ...
Of course, pilots are dashing people, but they don’t keep idiots there, so that bully in SMU near the ground.

You will be surprised, but pilots can do this! Starting from the attempt to kill his wife with her lover on the An-2 and blindly landing the Tu-134 to the attempt to make a downward barrel on the Yak-40. Alas, life is richer than fiction. And there is everywhere.

[NN52]

dmmyak40 (Dmitry)
You are civilian pilots, with military guys fighters, do not confuse ....
It’s not worth it.

[dmmyak40]

Please explain your words.
To us in the detachment roughly written off from the MiG-31 the pilot spoke. It’s true that I used a lipstick through my lip ...

[NN52]

dmmyak40 (Dmitry

I can explain ... A graduate of Ulyanovsk or Sasov will never become a pilot in a fighter (especially MiG 31), unlike a graduate of AVVAKUL or SVVAULSH, on any side in the Civil Air Fleet.
I clearly explained?

[dmmyak40]

More than understandable. ... I hear the same spitting through the lip ..., well ...
How many raids do you have?

[Pete mitchell]

52 He spoke more than straightforwardly, but there were many realities in his words. The mentality is different and measured on the fly is not quite adequate. A different approach to the task, a lot of things in different ways, including theoretical training, this is especially evident in more modern generations of pilots. And this is by no means because some are good and others are bad - just different goals and objectives, no matter how strange it sounds, I experienced it myself.

Quote: NN52

unlike a graduate of AVVAKUL or SVVAULSH, on any board in the Civil Air Fleet.

I think he wanted to say that it’s precisely these few years that instill this mentality, not only learn to fly, to be an officer: a civilian pilot will not become a military officer by order, and a raid here will not help

[dmmyak40]

52 He spoke out not so much in a straightforward manner, but with a certain snobbery and rudeness; the military have such a feature: they like to talk about speed, altitude and bearing. Faced.
Indeed, it’s not worth talking about the mentality and plaque, they are so different.
So I didn’t speak about it !!!
I don’t know what a friend with MiG wanted to say on the avatar, but I can add a few words:
- civilian pilots do not have a K-36 ejection seat: we survive or die with the passengers. Unlike military fighter guys. How did the guys from my link Milshin with Shulepov and Kim stay in the mountains near Makhachkala.
- For myself, I have long determined: a real person and a real officer differ only in the presence of shoulder straps.
- It’s not only people in uniform who defend their homeland: my grandfather went missing in the militia near Moscow.
Thank you for the reasonable and balanced response.
PS If someone inadvertently offended an awkward word - I apologize, it’s just touched my soul.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: dmmyak40

mentality and plaque speak, indeed, it is not worth it painfully different we have.

52 said exactly what he wanted to say, without banter.
You know what always surprised me in civil aviation: yes, crews, passengers and the absolute need to cut through to the end ... Do you still apologize for flying? Can you say that modern civil aviation is monolithic? As in Krylov’s fable: once a swan pike with cancer, from offices to cabins .... I have enough decent raid / length of service to judge this. The military, which is part of the crews, that alone: ​​are cut in groups according to one plan, they die one at a time. This is a big difference. I now have to knock out individuality from young people and make them think in terms of crew, they do not always understand. Looking at them, I understand that most of them simply couldn’t study where they studied. 52 and many others..

[NN52]

Pete mitchell
I told you for a long time, especially the "gifted" young people for "caponier" .... and in agricultural aviation, spray chemicals)))) and they are drinking coffee on your right side))

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: NN52

and they drink coffee on your right side))

We are like in the army: they drink, if I allow

[dmmyak40]

But you still have not answered my question regarding your raid. Do not see the question or go away from the answer?
PS Position and title do not matter.

[NN52]

dmmyak40 (Dmitry)

I wonder why you need my raid? Do you want to face them? So I suspect you have it in the Civil Air Fleet much more ... than fighters. I will say this, I did not significantly reach 1000)
Release AVVAKUL 93g. on MiG 23MLD
He graduated from flying activities on the MiG 31B.
I think Pete Mitchel answered all your questions, even very intelligibly, I didn’t even need to add anything.

[dmmyak40]

God forbid, why? I’m not going to prove anything to you, already everything and everyone including proved to myself. It’s just interesting what reason you have to come up with such an aplomb. File a little fly, sir, it’s easier to build and live.
But Pete Mitchel really very intelligibly and adequately explains, take an example.

[dmmyak40]

God forbid, why? I’m not going to prove anything to you, already everything and everyone including proved to myself. It’s just interesting what reason you have to come up with such an aplomb. File a little fly, sir, it’s easier to build and live.
But Pete Mitchel really very intelligibly and adequately explains, take an example.
PS I will surprise you, but in addition to Ulyanovsk and Sasov, there were others. CLUB, for example.

[NN52]

dmmyak40
Well, to be honest, I didn’t want to answer the question about the raid .. Because this and only this question can be heard from a "purely" civilian pilot, who first flew in the right cup. number of years (flying on the "fifth point"), then the PIC. Always in a white shirt and a cup of freshly brewed coffee brought by the flight attendant.

If you asked me what types of military aircraft I have mastered. The training level for each type, the attack on each type, which class specialty is assigned (class), did you perform live firing (in what conditions), were there OSPs, how many garrisons replaced and so on .... Then it would be interesting to answer you. And continue the dialogue .....
And you have a raid in the first place (probably under 10k?). In GP, ​​a pancake.
About the fly ...... If you advise me, then I can also give advice on what to do with it .. But you won’t like it, so I won’t)

P.S. You did not surprise me KLUG ..... the answer is almost the same.
Never graduated from KLUG, will not become a military fighter pilot, unlike pilots who graduated from KVVAUL or EVVAUL, and who came to the Civil Air Fleet as a pilot.

[dmmyak40]

No, I finished flying in 1995, when RDS-Avia went bankrupt: although I really wanted to fly. Just retrained in Kharkov on the An-74-200. It was interesting to try on the IL-76, I really liked it. The Minvody called on Tu-154, but there were family troubles.
Modern aviation cannot be called monolithic in any way: starting with the fact that there is a great number of aircrafts throughout the country with a fleet of from two to dozens. But the main tragedy of our aviation, in my opinion, is that the airlines are run by people who have the most distant relation to aviation itself, the so-called. "effective managers". This is already the 2nd generation of this breed: the first were in the 90s and also broke firewood.
It was during the Soviet Union that only a pilot could be the commander of an OJSC, even a careerist, even a useless pilot, but a pilot! Which in most cases could understand what was happening in flight and ground operations.
And in our 90s, as it was: the air squad - one office, the ADP - the other, transportation - the third, the airport - the fourth. And everyone does anything!
It’s hard for me to talk about the flight crew right now - everything has changed so painfully.
Of the "oldies" I know only one, very young on the Yak flew on the right, then left for S7. A friend from Volgograd (we studied together at the academy) has a 40-year-old son in Rusline, a commander in a CRJ-200: he says I don’t want to fly, he’s tired, he is sitting on the ground anymore. And I at one time refused from the post of a flying political officer, because I loved to fly.
Others they are. They didn’t smell chemistry, they fly and sleep in hotels with Condors, and there a company representative solves issues for them.
As for the flight in the carriage, then yes, this is a very complicated matter. Much depends on the national mentality. It was easier for me with the Russians, but with the Caucasians it was a different matter. He commissioned young PICs in Ordzhonikidze - that’s where the head slaps flew!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: dmmyak40

It’s hard for me to talk about the flight crew right now - everything has changed so painfully ... They are different.

when I got into civil aviation, I got to old still Aeroflot wolves, all commanders -154, one instructor from Ulyanovsk. And they, too, did not know what to do with us, they got used to it for a long time. Then everything went like clockwork. Today Sir is most often contacting me myself, and sometimes I also want to give a slap in the face, but that’s not possible: they will be offended, cry and be pitied. Commercialization of everything and everything gives results and effective managers aviation just attracts.
Anecdote on the topic: a businessman went to the toilet at the airport before departure and met a university friend cleaning the toilet. - How are you? I'm here. And you? - Business, Maybach, Bahamas, everything is as it should. What are you doing here? You were better than us, why are you tearing the toilet out here. Go outside, find another job .. - What are you what are you, I can’t leave the aircraft ...

[dmmyak40]

Classics of the genre! "We, old cultural workers, ...!" (K \ f "Old New Year").
About the head of the head. Almost everyone who received them was not offended, since they were always discharged in the case. Mostly for flight mechanics. And then you give a command to clean up the regime, and he, a rascal, controls the work of the gas station! And then he flew ...
It was difficult with the Ossetians - the hot ones hurt, but my age and skill did the trick: the majority learned everything and began to fly pretty well.
We have one Ossetian, Zara, the PIC Yak-40 flew. She flew well, but her hot temperament destroyed her ...

[Pete mitchell]

And I don’t like flying with the ladies, probably old-fashioned. In addition, some first climbed into boyish world, and then begins whining about I'm a girl, especially on the simulator with a complete failure of the hydraulics, this is very impressive. With former warriors, the easiest way: these are from a harsh word do not fall out of circulation and the inborn habit of making decisions greatly simplifies

[dmmyak40]

She did not fly with her, but as a commander and pilot she was better than most men. But he ruined her, as he said, too hot a temperament.
For the first time, the coupon was cut out on the non-removed PPD plug. The taxi dispatcher somehow either noticed or the technician reported, but the dispatcher tried to accurately ask to quickly return to the parking lot (the technicians would have quickly removed everything), did not say anything concrete on the air, the man tried to cover the fifth point of the crew. But Zara barked, they say, "what the hell do you want from me," and he gave instructions to return with an indication of the reason.
And another time , she left Sochi along the ground corridor. And there you had to get permission from the Air Force. Well, guys and had a training interception!
And so there are different guys: one peasant on Yak very much loved simpler things. Why count and make a decline with approach, if you can take 40 meters for 50-400 km and directly cut to the landing? Fuel economy? No, have not heard...

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: dmmyak40

Why count and make a decline with approach, if you can take 40 meters for 50-400 km and directly cut to the landing? Fuel economy? No, have not heard...

You know, talking with the guys from Aeroflot and Victory - they sin now. I myself sometimes come across: if they are ahead, then it is better not to drive speed. Recently, after all, the article was about bickering with dispatchers https://versiya.info/politika/army/135153. And complaints from the LHR or CDG, for example, and from SVO itself

[dmmyak40]

This is what! We had one hit in our squad that he was doing. It flies in the SUMMER, on a route, for example, Elista-Minvody-Tbilisi, to Yerevan or Krasnodar, it signs a city and Sochi as a reserve ... If you had to leave for a reserve, guess where it went? Correctly! And the sea is warm, good ... And the spring-summer navigation is so difficult ... True, then the authorities "stroked" the head ... with a blunt, heavy object. For you can't be smart ...
Once in Bykovo I had a situation. The dispatcher started me for the An-24, it was clear that there would be no interval, we were waiting for the DPSP reaction. Team: fourth on command, confirmed. Pull, silence, request the 4th, the answer is on command. I see now we’ll jump into the possession of the warrior in Ramenskoye, do the 4th, sit down. RP calls on KDP: they say, now we will understand. why I ignored the requirement of DPSP. I told him: well, only you don’t forget to point out that during the call from the very beginning, the interval required between the An-24 and I was not met. RP thought a little and said that. in principle, everything is not so scary, yet it ended normally ... they drove, they say. Well, okay, let's go. Well, their own ... almost.
About the negotiations of the aircraft with the KDP is generally a song! The web is now full of material. It will be necessary to find negotiations between the Aeroflot board and the taxi dispatcher when they requested a preliminary one, and the dispatcher expressed his sincere surprise at the "obtained from an unknown uncle" permission for towing and launching. How beautifully and skillfully the dispatcher made the crew hauled !!! You have to listen. BUT, he is a fine fellow, he did not inflate, they are still wrong.

[Pete mitchell]

You are sorry, but at the current density of boards at approach, not meeting the requirements of the dispatcher is more expensive for yourself, any initiative is unacceptable. I participated in one closed conference: the number of flights in Europe doubles every five years. Much has changed over the past years, one requirement of the language of which is worth it, the head is spinning from accents. Make our way

[dmmyak40]

You see, for the most part I agree with you, but there is one big BUT ... The crew must think with their heads for themselves and for the dispatcher.
Why, for example, I have to climb into the zone to the warriors and then get a drag (or even lose a coupon) if the dispatcher was wrong (or rather, he wants to fix my joint at my expense), and my 4th turn does not lead to danger (this is me I know for sure, because I’m tracking the situation).
So you answer me, if you clearly understand that the dispatcher gives the wrong command or doesn’t give anything at all, will you wait for his command or start to do something?
Here is an example.
In the 80s. in Alma-Ata I landed a Tu-134, from where I do not remember. Ahead of him came Il-62, DPSP asked the PIC to tighten the carcass with a fourth to maintain the distance. And the course from the third one led to the mountains: the dispatcher and the crew knew this very well. DPSP was carried away by the IL plant, and the carcass at that time was going in the direction of the mountains. FAC was requested by DPSP four, he confirmed - on command. A minute later, the navigator and the second one were already shouting to the FAC that they needed to turn, that they were going straight to the mountains, but he said that the fourth would only do on the command of the DPSP. When he remembered the Tu-134, the mark was already gone.
Concerning English: please give a short rating of dispatchers in terms of understanding.
PS What are you flying on? Where?

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: dmmyak40

The crew must think with their heads for themselves and for the dispatcher.

Of course, no one has canceled thinking and no one is responsible with the captain for safe flight Doesn’t take off: in time to get from the dispatcher, coordinate.
This is, of course, only my subjective: the coolest dispatchers in England proper, the London zone. Very sensible in northern, central and western Europe, except Spain. The whole south of Europe is "miracles": they are always ready to help and forget something. All Asia is an accent, and a very diverse one. North Africa and Arabia are in šāʾ Allāh in everything. English proficiency in Russia is not always at its best. PS ..

[Pete mitchell]

That "colleague", God forbid, of course, who crawled through my last comments, did you not like the anecdote? Suggest your

[Pete mitchell]

I clearly imagine that this happens, but in order to bully into smyu near the ground, and they had no reason to recruit, you have to be completely without a head. All they needed was to overtake the car and all. Later we ask, now we wait for the investigation

[Doliva63]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Quote: NN52

And here it is, the commission will establish ... Kompolka ... already not the kompolka))))

Quote: Doliva63

There was no regiment ...

but it doesn’t exclude that he is no longer the Commander’s Regiment ..

It already depends on hairiness, probably, and he already said, it seems that there was no order. We will see. In other times, if there was no direct reason, for example, surge on take-off, the pilot died, the regiment could also go for an increase.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Doliva63

At other times, if there was no direct reason

There above is a clipping from a document mentioning the decision of the Commander’s Regiment. In this situation, they’ll definitely not be forgotten about it, which is most likely not correct.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Quote: Doliva63

At other times, if there was no direct reason

There above is a clipping from a document mentioning the decision of the Commander’s Regiment. In this situation, they’ll definitely not be forgotten about it, which is most likely not correct.

In general, we will see.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Doliva63

In general, we will see.

The commander is certainly not in the business, let’s see what the investigation will say.

[tolmachiev51]

- "The crew commander Alexander Sklyankin and the deputy commander of the Korenovsky regiment for flight training and the Mi-28 squadron Ruslan Kushnirenko were killed." - sorry for the guys, but the instructions are written for everyone!

[Basarev]

And why do we need the Mi-28? He lost all his contests; he was practically forcibly dragged into the troops thanks to only endless corruption. The Soviet mistake with the tank zoo is repeated.

[Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich]

The devices may have failed at zero visibility and were unable to align and roll and hooked the ground ((damn it’s a pity that it happened so both men and their families (((((but in the army

[iouris]

... here and there it exploded, fell, drowned ... The end of the year.

[Nasty]

Quote: Starper-777

Crew commander Alexander Sklyankin and deputy commander of the Korenovsky flight training regiment and squadron Mi-28 Ruslan Kushnirenko.

And the pinwheel is practically a whole .. So only Russian pilots can land .. Probably dohuligany ...

Ska you, nobody else.