Battle for the South: Red Army liberates Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn

Commanders of the First Cavalry Army of the Red Army K. E. Voroshilov, E. A. Schadenko, S. M. Budyonny

Smoot. 1919 year. 100 years ago, in December 1919, the armies of Denikin suffered a heavy defeat. A radical turning point in the war was completed. The Red Army liberated the Left-Bank Little Russia, Donbass, most of the Don region and Tsaritsyn.

The collapse of the defense of Denikin

Having lost Kursk, the Volunteer Army could not stand at the line of Sumy - Lebedyan - Belgorod - Novy Oskol. The horse group of Shkuro - Mamontov, and then Ulagaya, acting at the junction between the Volunteer Army and the Don, could not resist the strike group of the Red Army under the leadership of Budenny. The equestrian group was too small, besides, the White were torn by contradictions in command, the collapse of the Don units and the decomposition of the Kuban.

After completing the Oryol-Kromsk and Voronezh-Kastornen operations, the Soviet troops of the Southern Front, without a pause, launched an attack on the Kharkov direction on November 24 of November 1919. The main blow was dealt by the 14th Army of Uborevich, which was to take Kharkov; to the left of it was the 13th Army of Haecker, which, in cooperation with the 1th Horse Army of Budyonny, was to pursue the retreating enemy troops and capture Kupyansk; and the 8-th Army of Sokolnikov to develop an attack on Starobelsk.

Being squeezed by the 13 and 14 th Soviet armies from the front and covered by the Budyonny strike group from the right flank, the Volunteer Army, under the threat of deep coverage by the cavalry of the enemy, continuously rolled back. On November 25 of 1919 of the year, the 1th Horse Army of Budyonny liberated the New Oskol, on November 28 of the 14 Army of Sumy. In early December, the white cavalry counterattacked the joint of the 13 and 8 armies, and then along the left wing of the Budyonny army near Valuyki. The transfer of the 9 division from Kursk, the suspension of the advance of Budenny’s troops and its turn to Valuyki allowed the Reds to parry the enemy’s blow. A few days went hard fighting. As a result, the 1-I Cavalry Army, in cooperation with units of the 13-I Army, defeated the cavalry of the enemy. Pursuing the defeated White Guards, the 13 Army on 8 took Volchansk on December 1, and Valuyki took part of the 9 Army on 4 on December. December 14 6 Army occupied Akhtyrka, December 7 Krasnokutsk and December 4 Belgorod. On December 8, units of the XNUMX Army entered Pavlovsk.

The Soviet command planned to surround and destroy the enemy's Kharkov grouping. The 14 Army was advancing from the Akhtyrka region in a southeasterly direction, the 13 Army from the Volchansk region in a south-western direction, and the 1 Army was tasked with a strike from Valuyek to Kupyansk to create a threat of a deep detour from the southeast. White could not organize the defense of Kharkov. In the white rear - the Poltava and Kharkov provinces, an uprising grew. They took up again weapon the previously defeated Makhnovists who fled through the villages. The Red Agitators acted with might and main, raising the people against Denikinites. The Borotbists, left Socialist-Revolutionaries in Little Russia-Ukraine, created their detachments. They entered into an alliance with the Bolsheviks. Small detachments united into whole “brigades” and “divisions”.

The 14-I red army occupied Valki on December 9, and Merefu on December 11, cutting off the enemy’s escape route to the south. Denikin’s attempt to counterattack from the region of Konstantinograd was paralyzed by the actions of the rebels. On the night of December 12, the Latvian and 8 cavalry divisions entered the suburbs of Kharkov, and in the afternoon the White Guard units laid down their arms. The insurgent division of the Borotbist Kuchkovsky entered Poltava along with the red units. The rebel brigades Ogia and Klimenko, together with the red cavalry brigade, broke through to Kremenchug.

During the Kharkov operation, the Reds defeated the Belgorod-Kharkov group of the Volunteer Army, liberated Belgorod, Kharkov and Poltava. This allowed the troops of the red Southern Front to go on the offensive in the Donbass, to separate the Volunteer and Don Army and create a threat to their rear. By mid-December 1919, the front of volunteers was on the line from the Dnieper to Konstantinograd - Zmiev - Kupyansk, retreating to 30 - 40 km south of Poltava and Kharkov.

Kiev operation

The fighting for Kiev took place at about the same time as the Kharkov operation. The 12-th Soviet army of Mezheninov on the Left Bank of the Dnieper advanced deep south, approaching Kiev, threatening Cherkasy and Kremenchug. White troops under the command of General Dragomirov kept Kiev from December 10 to 1919. However, under the threat of encirclement, the White Guards on December 16 left the city. The 58th Infantry Division of the 12 Army entered Kiev.

The Galician army, which broke with Petliura, went over to the side of the White Guards. The Galician arrows had nowhere to go. Homeland was captured by the Poles. Petlyura began to seek an alliance with Poland, that is, he was ready to cede the Poles to Lviv. Petlyurov’s troops, mostly of various gang formations, had extremely low combat efficiency, that is, they could not fight the Red Army. Galicians, who stood in the Vinnitsa region, went over to the side of the volunteers. But this could not change the general situation. White lost the battle for Little Russia.

The defeated Kiev group Dragomirova began to retreat to join the Odessa Schilling group. Denikin entrusted Shilling with the general command of the troops cut off from the main forces in the southern part of New Russia, and ordered the defense of Crimea, Northern Tavria and Odessa. For the defense of the Crimea and Tavria, the corps of Slashchev was sent, which was never able to finish off the Makhnovists. Galicians and White Guards, snarling under Cherkassy, ​​retreated to the Right Bank of the Dnieper, with rearguard battles, retreated to the Zhmerynka-Elizavetgrad line.

Khopyero-Don operation

At the same time, the Don Army of Sidorin suffered a heavy defeat (about 27 thousand bayonets and sabers, 90 guns). The Don people held the defense at the turn of Bobrov, Beryozovka, Archedinskaya. On the 20 attack of November 1919, the troops of the 9-th Soviet army of Stepin and the Horse-free corps of Dumenko (18 thousand bayonets and sabers, 160 guns) went over. The main forces of the 9 Army (36 I, 23 I and 14 I Rifle Divisions) and the Dumenko Corps delivered the main blow to the junction between the 3 and 2 M Don enemy corps in order to reach Pavlovsk. Auxiliary strikes were made on the flanks. On the right wing of the army, the 2 I cavalry division of Blinov (the Don Cossack, one of the organizers of the red cavalry) was advancing with the task of reaching Talovaya, Pavlovsk. Here the offensive was supported by the left flank divisions of the 8 Army (33 and 40). On the left wing attacked the stanitsa Kumylzhenskaya, Ust-Medveditskaya 22th Infantry Division with the task of defeating parts of the 1-th Don Don Corps of whites in the vicinity of the Medveditsa River. Here the offensive was supported by the right-flank units of the 10 Army.

Blinov's cavalry broke through the defense of the Don and on November 23 took Buturlinovka. In this battle, the division commander Mikhail Blinov was killed. Belokazaki inflicted a flank counterattack by the forces of the 1th Don Cavalry Division, 7th Don Cavalry Brigade (3th Don Corps) and the horse group of the 2th Don Corps. By November 25, the Reds were discarded. On November 26, Soviet troops crossed the Khoper River on a wide front, capturing a bridgehead on its right bank. The main forces of the 9th Army broke through the 2th Don Corps and on November 28, Dumenko's cavalry captured Kalach. The 22-I rifle division struck the 6-th Don Plastonic enemy division and threw it to the southern coast of the Don on November 26. The White Cossacks counterattacked with the forces of the 1 and 2 th Don Corps, trying to surround and destroy the Dumenko corps. Several times, the Dumenko corps was in a difficult position, its brigades were surrounded, but the red cavalry skillfully maneuvered, repelled enemy attacks.

Meanwhile, the 8 Army was advancing from Voronezh, which, taking advantage of the success of the Budenny Cavalry Army, expanded and consolidated the basis of its breakthrough. Parts of the 8 Army began to hang over the Don Army from the northwest. Blinov's cavalry division resumed the offensive, which, with the support of the 21 infantry division (from the reserve of the 9 army) defeated the horse group of the 2 Don corps in the Buturlinovka area and, together with the horse corps of Dumenko, began to crowd the Don to the south. Sidorin's army was cut into two parts, she was threatened with encirclement and complete destruction. To save the troops from complete destruction, the white command left the interfluve of Khopr and the Don, and began to withdraw units to the southern coast of the Don. The troops of the 9-th Soviet Army and the Dumenko corps on 8 on December 1919 reached the Don River in the Rossosh section, Ust-Medveditskaya. The Reds could not complete the encirclement and destruction of the Don Army because of the slow pace of the offensive; there was not enough cavalry.

Mikhail Fedoseevich Blinov (1892 - 22 on November 1919 of the year) - Soviet military leader, one of the organizers of the Red Cossack cavalry units

Conflict of Denikin and Wrangel

The question arose about the retreat of the Volunteer Army. Wrangel believed that since volunteers can’t defend and the situation on the right flank is a disaster, it is necessary to withdraw troops to the Crimea. Referring to the inevitability in this case of a break in communication with the Headquarters, he requested the appointment of a general commander over the troops of the Kiev region, New Russia and the Volunteer Army. Militarily, the withdrawal of troops to Tavria and Crimea was justified, the movement to the east, to Rostov was a difficult flank maneuver, under constant enemy attacks. Denikin was categorically against. He believed that if it was impossible to resist, then it was necessary to retreat to Rostov, maintaining contact with the Don. The departure of volunteers would cause the collapse of the entire Cossack front. Volunteers lost the Don and land communications with the North Caucasus, where the rear base, hospitals and families were located.

In the meantime, the commander of the Volunteer Army recognized further resistance in the Donets Basin as impossible and proposed withdrawing the troops of the central group beyond Don and Sal. Wrangel also proposed, with the goal of retaining the personnel of the army and part of the armament, to begin negotiations with the Entente on the evacuation of troops outside Russia. The Baron refused to command the Volunteer Army, offering to reorganize it, due to its small size, into a corps. Wrangel himself was to form an equestrian army in the Kuban as part of three corps, the Tersky corps, part of the Don and volunteer cavalry. Denikin agreed with these proposals. The commander of the Volunteer Corps, later named the Separate Volunteer Corps, was appointed General Kutepov, who previously commanded the 1 army corps (the core of the Volunteer Army).

At the same time, Wrangel stood in stiff opposition to Denikin. On December 24, at the Yasinovataya station at the headquarters of the Volunteer Army, generals Wrangel and Sidorin met. The baron, severely criticizing the strategy and policies of the General Headquarters, raised the question of the overthrow of the commander in chief. To solve this and other issues, General Wrangel proposed one of the coming days to convene a meeting of three army commanders (Wrangel, Sidorin, Pokrovsky) in Rostov. Denikin banned this meeting.

Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn

On 18 of December 1919 of the year the left wing of the Southern Front (13 Army, 1 Army, and XNUM Army) began the Donbass operation. In areas of the Volunteer and Don armies, the situation continued to deteriorate rapidly. If the flanks still held - in the Poltava region and on the Don, near Veshenskaya, then in the center under the onslaught of the Budenny shock group, the front crumbled. White rolled back to the Seversky Donets, red broke through to Lugansk. The cavalry group of whites, created to fight Budyonny’s breakthrough, finally fell apart. Kuban masses left for their homeland.

On 23 December 1919 the Reds crossed the Seversky Donets. The volunteer army was in danger of dismemberment. Volunteers who still remained in Little Russia were ordered to retreat to Rostov. Denikin’s headquarters was transferred from Taganrog to Bataysk, the government was evacuated to Ekaterinodar and Novorossiysk. The Ulagai equestrian group, trying to detain the Budennovites, was able to give another battle at the Popasnaya station. The white cavalry was able to stop the Reds, but then the 4 I Cavalry Division of Gorodovikov broke through at the junction of the White Cossacks and the infantry, which decided the outcome of the battle in favor of the Budennovites. Further, the movement of the Budyonny army was restrained only by volunteer units, moving away from west to east under the most difficult conditions - under the blows of the 1-th Conarmy and divisions of the 8-th Soviet army from the north. Moreover, the corridor for the retreat of volunteers was constantly narrowing and shifting south. The White Guards had an extremely difficult time, some units, in particular, the Markovites, made their way in complete encirclement.

Meanwhile, units of the 8 and 9 red armies expanded the breakthrough of the Budyonny army at its base and began the liberation of the Don region. On December 17 of 1919, the Boguchar-Likhai operation began. The 9 Army and the Dumenko Consolidated Horse Corps of the Southeast Front, together with part of the forces of the 8 Army of the Southern Front, crossed the Don. The Dumenko cavalry broke through to the south and on December 22 reached Millerovo. Here the Reds were met by the cavalry of the 2 th Don Corps of Konovalov. In the oncoming battle, red and white cavalry clashed. No one wanted to give in. Konovalov moved to the city, went on the defensive. Dumenko was forced to wait for the infantry approach. Then he went on the offensive again and occupied Millerovo. Under the influence of defeats, voluntary and their own, donors lost heart. The retreat, heavy losses, the epidemic of typhoid fever, fatigue from an endless war, and another collapse of hopes of victory affected it. The Cossacks did not want to surrender, but their morale faded.

After the Red Army crossed the Don in the entire back and middle course, there was a threat of cutting off the Caucasian army in the Tsaritsyn fortified area, which still contained the pressure of the 10 and 11 th Soviet armies. 28 December 1919 years Denikin ordered to clear Tsaritsyn and move west, to take up defense on the river. Sal to cover from the east of the Kuban and the Stavropol Territory. Parts of Pokrovsky, destroying important objects, left the city and on the night of 3 on January 1920, the Red Army entered the city: the 50-I Taman division of the 11-th army on ice through the Volga, and the 37-I division of the 10-th army - from the north.

Pokrovsky’s Caucasian army along the railway retreated, conducting rear-guard battles, to Tikhoretskaya. The 11-I Soviet army, liberated after the occupation of Tsaritsyn, moved along the coast of the Caspian Sea to Dagestan, Grozny and Vladikavkaz. A white group led by General Erdeli defended there.

Thus, Denikin’s armies suffered a heavy defeat. A radical turning point in the war was completed. The troops of the Southern Front in the Donbass operation with the support of the red partisans inflicted a new defeat on the Volunteer and Don armies and liberated the Donbass. By the beginning of the 1920 year, Budyonny's army was breaking through to Taganrog and Rostov-on-Don. The 14 Army of the Southern Front cut off the left-flank group of forces of the Volunteer Army from its main forces. In the Boguchar-Likhai operation, the 9 Army and the cavalry corps of the South-Eastern Front, together with part of the forces of the 8 Army of the Southern Front, crossed the Don, repelled the counterattacks of the Don Army, took Millerovo and reached the approaches to Novocherkassk. The Red Army occupied the central part of the Don region. The 10-I and 11-I armies of the South-Eastern Front carried out the Tsaritsyn operation and on January 3 of 1920, Tsaritsyn was liberated. The Caucasian army retreated from Tsaritsyn under pressure from the 10-th Soviet army, which was relentlessly following it, and at the beginning of the 1920 year it was located behind Salom. 11-I Soviet army moved to liberate the North Caucasus.

Comments

[Olgovich]

Red Army Freed Left-bank Little Russia, Donbass, most of the Don region and Tsaritsyn.

Captured in Russia and the Russian Army and Transmitted into occupation the so-called "Ukraine"Left-bank Little Russia, Donbass, most of the Don region.

Tsaritsyn deprived him of the Russian name, which he wore for several centuries)

100 years ago,

it was still Russiaand today, as a result of that Predacha, there is a war going on, and the Russian language and Russian people are banned.

In that part of the Don region (Taganrog, Mines, etc.), which the inhabitants, with blood, miracle, managed to return to Russia in 1925 from Ukraine, Russia lives and there is no war.

These are just FACTS.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Olgovich (Andrey)
Captured from Russia and the Russian Army and handed over to the occupation of the so-called. "Ukraine" Left-bank Little Russia, Donbass, most of the Don region.

Oh, morning began on the collective farm! It’s time for a patient to have a sedative injection.
Olgovich, you remind me of the cartoon "Ivan Tsarevich and the Gray Wolf" part 3, there is about jam and visions from people who have tasted it. Only with the help of such a jam can you see in whites what you see, that is, what actually was not.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Sick you have to get a sedative shot

And good morning to you, Alexander of Macedon!

FACTS rejection huge Russian lands in favor of your beloved Ukraine-can you refute? For this, the Bolsheviks fought: for the transformation of Nikolaev into Mykolaiv, Uralsk into Oral, Verny in Almaty, etc.

Or tell us how happy the Russian people of New Russia were, who were raped to learn an alien language, expelled from work for it (up to the persecution), raped to watch how the monuments to the Russian Heroes of New Russia are overthrown and the monuments to the drunk pedophile Shevchenko or blue franco, etc.? Well, how do you achieve the result, are you satisfied?

PS

Doctor -
- my dear, why do you say to everyone that you are Alexander Suvorov, and to me that you are A. Macedonian?
-Duc, dohtor, the truth is just for you!
.

[Foul skeptic]

blue franco

This is not the first time you mention a writer’s orientation. Are you a connoisseur of his biography? They say the truth, a talented person, talented in everything - even in demography, even in economics, even in agriculture, even in biographies of writers.

[Kronos]

Apparently, Olgovich is a sore subject, whether roofing felts suffered from gays

[Foul skeptic]

Why are you doing this? Ugly. As long as you do not agree with the opponent, you are equal to him. Even if you are wrong. But if the transition to personality begins, it immediately lowers you below the opponent, even if he is wrong.
From Olgovich, of course, I would like to hear the answer, where did he pick up this muti, he usually doesn’t drag out the answers, since he doesn’t need to bother with all the bothers in his answers. But then you see, and he realized that he had inserted unverified information. And admit it above his strength))
Although what the hell is not joking - suddenly he has exclusive information or I have a gap in awareness.

[Kronos]

I would only agree that he himself would constantly go over to the personalities of his opponents or Bolsheviks

[BAI]

In the white rear - the Poltava and Kharkov provinces, an uprising grew. Again, the previously defeated Makhnovists scattered across the villages took up arms. The Red Agitators acted with might and main, raising the people against Denikinites. The Borotbists, left Socialist-Revolutionaries in Little Russia-Ukraine, created their detachments. They entered into an alliance with the Bolsheviks. Small detachments united into whole “brigades” and “divisions”.

EVERYTHING united against whites! No support from the population, which decided the outcome of the war.

[Evgenijus]

From the title of the article: "... The Red Army liberates Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn"
I am interested to find out from the author - from whom does the Red Army liberate Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn? Have these cities and territories been seized, occupied? Captured by whom? By analogy, today the Armed Forces of Ukraine also want to "liberate" Donbass. Most likely, the author illogically formulated the title of his article. It would be logical to write: "The Red Army captures Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn." This is how, following the example of the author of the article, we are being forced into a "new history" of Russia ...
Ready to take cons from the owners of red books.

[Foul skeptic]

From Allied Invaders

[Evgenijus]

Timur, I asked you only for the minus, so thanks! I look forward to hearing from the author. I hope for a logical answer for the phrase in the title. It is logical ...
And your answer is not logical, but spiteful.

[Foul skeptic]

You asked for cons from the owners of red books, what have I to do with it?
To get a minus from me, you have to try, you haven’t succeeded so far))
Well, not logical so not logical))

[Evgenijus]

Timur, forgive me for the "thank you" to the wrong address
This is behind your back the then Cheka. I am for the pros and cons, but with an explanation of this action. And who secretly does this is a real vile.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Well, take a fat minus from me. Because the reds precisely liberated the territories occupied by whites and their allies, invaders of all stripes.

[Evgenijus]

Thanks for the minus, I'm flattered. But the question was still not answered logically. Where did the "whites" come from? Have you fallen from the moon? Both whites and reds were residents of Russia and its outskirts. They lived in their homes, gave birth to children, sowed bread. But Lenin's Maidan and his bandits gave them different colors to the inhabitants of Russia. And you will not dispute the example of the occupation of the Tambov province by the "Reds". For Tukhachevsky arrived there with his chemical weapons not to free the Tambov peasants from the gangs of Red Army food detachments, but to poison the local residents. You are a respected author, buy a chicken and hang noodles on her ears ...

[Evgenijus]

Alexander Suvorov, I also give you a minus not in revenge, but for the historical lie in the title of the article and for the illogical answer to me. As far as I know, before the arrival of the "Reds" in the south of Russia, no one in that region complained about the current government, there were no uprisings and riots. The locals didn't write to Lenin - send us the Red Army! To logically respond to comments, take a look at the Encyclopedia, or at least Wikipedia and see the definition of what is "occupation" and "occupiers". It is precisely the seizure of southern Russia by the Red Army that fits this concept for assessing those old events. About what happened after the departure of the "whites" in the south of Russia is a nightmare, Hell began there. I declare once again - in your article title - a lie.

[cost]

from whom does the Red Army exempt Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn?

From private property. Particularly distinguished in this 1st equestrian
One such liberator is better than the chief military prosecutor of the USSR N.P. Afanasyev, and you can’t say:

Shchadenko at the end of his life became completely abnormal. Some kind of pathological greed and skopidomstvo added to swagger and arrogance ... At his own dacha, he traded vegetables and saved up money. Having become ill, he took his pillows, blankets and mattress to the Kremlin hospital. When he died, money appeared in the mattress - over 160 thousand rubles. He died on them ”

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

I am interested to know from the author - from whom does the Red Army exempt Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn? Were these cities and territories captured, occupied? Who is captured?

In the south of Russia, including the Donbass, the Don and Tsaritsyn, after the Great October Socialist Revolution, popular Soviet Power was established.

The counter-revolution, which called itself the "White Guard", supported by the interventionists, and in some places together with the interventionists, destroyed this power, seizing all these territories.

So the Red Army rightfully liberated these territories from the White Guards and the interventionists, helping the population restore the Soviet people's power.

[Evgenijus]

No matter how it is! It is not necessary to say “established” about one seizure of power, and “captured” about the other. What is the difference? Who established Soviet power on the Don and in Tsaritsyn? Was there an election? The polling stations were full of the electorate? In reality, it was the purest armed seizure of power by the Bolshevik junta, following the example of today's Kiev Maidan. Disagreeing - to the wall. It was the Bolsheviks who unleashed a civil war in Russia, and the purpose of this war between large masses of Russian citizens was precisely the seizure of power in certain regions of the country and in the country as a whole. There was no liberation of someone from someone else. No need to hang up noodles, you'd better buy chicken. Your nonsense can be pushed to youngsters. You at least give facts to support your conjectures, documents from archives, read the encyclopedia and learn Russian, the meanings of words in this language.
I put a minus for you not knowing the meanings of words in Russian.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

I put a minus for you not knowing the meanings of words in Russian.

Come on, hypocrite, Everyone understands that you are putting cons, because. do not find supporters of the Soviet Government.

[Evgenijus]

Alexander, good morning! About hypocrisy - I did not understand your phrase at all. There is a meaning of this word - I see no reason in this situation to apply it in a dispute. Taken from the ceiling by you. About hatred - I have no such feeling for people. But I have a rejection of the communist ideology. Do not confuse people and their attitude to what is in their heads. And you are confusing. Logically answered? I wish you to think before you say something. In the Soviet years, the CPSU took away all independent thinking from the inhabitants of the USSR. It is time to realize that this ideological dictator and aggressor is dead for our souls. But many in our time carry flowers to the monuments and graves of criminals and murderers of millions of people, we walk the streets named in their "honor" and do not think about it. The Bolsheviks knocked off the brains of many. And I wish you sober thoughts and a real assessment of past events. You don't have to be the "penguins" of the late Nemtsov.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

About hypocrisy - I did not understand your phrase at all. There is a meaning of this word - I see no reason in this situation to apply it in a dispute. Taken from the ceiling by you. About hatred - I have no such feeling for people. But I have a rejection of communist ideology. Do not confuse people and their attitude to what is in their heads.

Maybe I’m wrong, but what else to call, given below, your wishes for you to get minus?
Public masochism?

Quote: Evgenijus

I put a minus for you not knowing the meanings of words in Russian.

Quote: Evgenijus

Alexander Suvorov, to you I also put a minus not in revenge, but for the historical lie in the title of the article and for the illogical answer to me.

Quote: Evgenijus

Thanks for the minus, flattered by this.

Quote: Evgenijus

Timur, forgive me for the "thank you" to the wrong address
This is behind your back the then Cheka. I am for the pros and cons, but with an explanation of this action.

Quote: Evgenijus

Timur, I asked you only for the minus, so thanks!

Quote: Evgenijus

Ready to take cons from the owners of red books.

[Evgenijus]

Alexander, I am indifferent to the assessments of my comments by the participants of VO. But since there is an incomprehensible war between commentators at VO, the weapon of which is the cons, I scornfully draw attention to this type of communication. Masochism is when you hurt yourself. In our case, this is an insult. But to offend me - it is necessary to try! My conclusion is that you are still mistaken in evaluating me as a commentator in VO. I am interested in reading historical material, news of weapons and equipment. But I rarely get into disputes, because there are only a few adequate interlocutors in the military. Basically you get insults and all sorts of nonsense in response. But the administration is happy with that. I sometimes put cons, but I justify them with my text, you noticed this. Those who put cons without justification are petty vile.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

I am indifferent to the assessment of my comments by the participants of VO ...

What then ask to minus and violate your rule not to enter into discussions? Those who do not care are limited to one comment, expressed their opinion and do not pay attention to any answers.
So your statement

Quote: Evgenijus

.... since there is an incomprehensible war between commentators in VO, the weapon of which is the cons, I scornfully draw attention to this type of communication

it's just coquetry on your part.

[Evgenijus]

Alexander, this is not coquetry. I can't stand it when on a respected forum, which is largely associated with presenting issues of the history of Russia to a wide audience, blatant lies are presented to users. In the comments of the participants, there are huge streams of lies (one false word in the title is a whole lump of lies), but mainly from supporters of world revolutions and all kinds of Maidans. Unfortunately, this stream of lies cannot be stopped. Therefore, I rarely began to enter into discussions. I think I'll go "on vacation" now.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

. In the comments of the participants, the flows of lies are huge (one false word in the title is a whole block of lies), but mainly from supporters of world revolutions and all sorts of maidans.

Have you ever thought that you are replicating a lie?

[Evgenijus]

Yes, I agree. There was such a period - conducted political studies with soldiers, circulated tales of communism, a bright future for the world proletariat. Thank God I got rid of this. But I admit - I carried out such orders under duress. His own family was growing, the officer needed an apartment and promotion, and not just me, but many thousands of officers. For refusing watered propaganda - severe penalties. So to speak, with the ensuing ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

circulated tales of communism, a bright future for the world proletariat. Thank God I got rid of it

Now it’s clear which of you will be. Zampolit-rasstrig from the CPSU.

[Evgenijus]

Alexander, I assume that you were not an officer. In the Soviet Army, ALL officers conducted political exercises with their subordinates. There was such a plan - combat and political training in each unit. Classes are required! I’ll tell you the secret of my military profession - I was an engineer in the Strategic Missile Forces on the strategic missile control system (specialist in the instrument compartment of the missile). But the political worker’s control and the political worker himself always hung over me.
I advise you to carefully label people you don’t know. And it's better not to hang. I advise some to buy chicken and hang noodles on her ears ...
Read my memoirs:
https://www.proza.ru/2013/03/24/1298
https://www.proza.ru/2013/01/23/127

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

Alexander, I assume that you were not an officer.

Why wasn't he? Was. Lieutenant Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, now Rear Admiral of the "sofa troops", but I still conduct political studies and not only in VO, so don't offer chicken, both young people and respectable uncles and aunts listen to me.

Many of them laughed at my words in 1991, because it was then that they were getting noodles on their ears, but today it "dried up", and now they listen to me with great attention.

Read our materials here
http://bolshevick.org/

[Evgenijus]

Looked at your site. I did not know that such a party exists today (is it resurrected?). I looked through a couple of articles. Everywhere politics and familiar speeches, only an armored car and a man in a cap. And who is in charge of your party? I always thought that Gennady Zyuganov was the most important communist in modern Russia. But I will tell you honestly - I am not interested in political parties and political movements at all. I have completely different interests, there are many of them and they are useful to me and those around me. On this thread, if the debates are on the topic of politics, then the admin will drive into a corner. What about my memoirs? There are a couple of publications on my VO page. If not laziness - find them through my nickname of this site.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

Looked at your site. I did not know that such a party exists today (is it resurrected?). I looked through a couple of articles. Everywhere politics and familiar speeches, only an armored car and a man in a cap. And who is in charge of your party? I always thought that Gennady Zyuganov was the most important communist in modern Russia.
.

We do not have the main thing, we have a collective Central Committee, as under V.I. Lenin. The party has been counting its congresses since 1991, and Bolshevism itself became in demand with the beginning of perestroika, when it became clear where Gorbachev and his clique were leading. N.A. was the first to announce this. Andreeva in her article "I cannot compromise my principles"

So far I have read one story from "your memoirs" about political studies. What can I say? If you wrote this about yourself, then you were deceiving, considering your subordinates more stupid than yourself. I do not approve of this. For example, I first conducted political studies a little earlier in 1972, and I was instructed to teach very difficult topics - on Marcist-Leninist philosophy.

I, too, was not very prepared, because I taught at the school in order to pass, the technique was more interesting for me, but I was pleasantly surprised that my students showed genuine interest in it, and in order not to fall face down in the mud, I had to shovel more than one textbook, read more than one Lenin’s work .

But on the other hand, it helped me in the 80s, when they began to deceive us all about how good it would be for us to live with private ownership of the means of production, with the "owner". I quickly figured out who was who, and at all party meetings I was smashing the liberals, though it was already on the shore.

[Evgenijus]

In the Strategic Missile Forces we were engaged in serious business, political training took a lot of time from combat training, causing great harm to the latter. I still cannot understand why the knowledge of Ilyich's work "one step forward and two back" could play a significant role in the speed of installing an onboard battery or gas-jet rudders on a rocket. I remember exercises with access to field positions. We did not sleep at night, march in the dark in the white snowy haze, but until the morning we took up a position and camouflaged the equipment. Blizzard, frost, and the earth is like a stone. They hammered with crowbars, dynamite in order to install the PU plates. The soldiers and officers were falling off their feet, but we were ready to launch the missile on time. In the morning, a team from the political department floods onto the starting position - all in brand new sheepskin coats, white fur on a twist, field bags over the shoulder and on Makarova's side. Howl - where is the marching Lenkomnata? Why are there no combat sheets? A battery commander with nodules on his cheekbones gives a report to the watered inspectors. We giggle at the white sheepskin coats. The battle sheets were hung up. A week later, helicopter pilots bring reconnaissance aerial photographs of our positions from a neighboring division. Missiles and equipment are not visible, but the Lenin rooms of the four starting batteries are clearly displayed in white squares against the background of the forest. I hate political workers ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

I still cannot understand why the knowledge of Ilyich's work "one step forward and two back" could play a significant role in the speed of installing an onboard battery or gas-jet rudders on a rocket.

I will not repeat the commonplace truths that a warrior of the Soviet Army must have a political consciousness, that he is the bearer of socialist ideology, that this will not only infuse the morale of the soldier .... I will say only one thing. Your misunderstanding of V.I. Lenin, and not only yours, played into the hands of the liberals who planned to destroy socialism and the USSR. They allegedly pressed on your common sense. but in reality petty-bourgeois ideas threw you. which were easily absorbed by you, but which contributed to the destruction of collectivism and, in general, the entire Soviet consciousness. The result is obvious. Do you really like today's being?

[Evgenijus]

Alexander, I can also present common truths to you. These truths, unlike yours, are written by respected people around the world. The Bolsheviks stole these truths from the apostles, but perverted them. For your information, in the world there is no and is not foreseen even in the distant future of fair social systems and structures of government. Sweeping some liberals today is a way of concealing the guilt and participation of the Communist Party in the collapse of the country. We are looking for switchmen. It would be my will, so I would have banned all political parties.
I propose to close the debate on politics, an article about the history of the military battles of the civil war. Let's respect the forum and the author of the publication, and not engage in political propaganda and pushing the ideas of the Communist Party to the masses of users and participants of the HE.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Evgenijus

and not engage in political propaganda and pushing the ideas of the Communist Party to the masses of users and participants of HE.

I cannot promise this, because there is a lot of dirt and disinformation being poured on the Soviet past at the forum, but I agree to stop our debate, because. they are unpromising, I just want to remind you of one more truth “if you don’t want to be involved in politics, it will take care of you.” This I felt from my own experience.

[ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH]

Quote: Evgenijus

interesting to know from the author - from whom does the Red Army exempt Donbass, Don and Tsaritsyn?

It liberated from Russia, naturally, from the Russian army. The Civil War of 1917-22 was primarily the Russian-Soviet war, the RSFSR war against Russia, where the Soviet allied with the Nazis (Georgians, Jews and other Ukrainians) defeated the Russians and destroyed the Russian state .
Small Soviet Encyclopedia of 1929 (7th volume).
"Russia is the former name of the country on whose territory the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was formed.
...
The expressions "History of Russia" and "Russian history" used in this sense also cover up and justify the colonial policy of oppression and violence of the Russian autocracy against non-Russian peoples.
...
The term "Russian history" is a counter-revolutionary term of one edition with a tricolor flag. "

[Foul skeptic]

first of all, the Russian-Soviet war

primarily?
And is this designation method suitable for civil wars? How then, according to your classification, will the civil war in Spain sound? in burma? And who in alliance with whom defeated whom and destroyed what? )))

[ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

is this designation method suitable for civil wars?

The Russians had Pocci citizenship, the Soviet citizenship of the RSFSR. It is ridiculous to assume that Kolchak, Denikin and Wrangel are citizens of the Soviet Republic. It is not by chance that immediately after the victory in 1922, the Soviets finally established the name of their state-USSR. The Chechen Red Army, Bukhara fought in alliance with the Red Army Red Army, etc. , up to 300 thousand internationalists. The war of 17-22 years is also the war of the national suburbs against Pocci.

[Foul skeptic]

It is absurd to think that Kolchak, Denikin and Wrangel are citizens of the Soviet Republic

and someone thinks so? In people with the strangest views, I have never seen such a thing. But what’s ridiculous is talking about citizenship in the absence of a monarch.

The war of 17-22 years is also the war of the national suburbs against Pocci

Does it surprise you or something? True, the attempt to impute nationalism and nationalist formations to the Bolsheviks is ridiculous.
But still, how should the civil wars in Spain and Burma be called, if the civil war in Russia is Russian-Soviet?

up to 300 thousand internationalists

out of 5 million in the ranks of the "red".

[ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

talk about citizenship in the absence of a monarch.

The absence of a monarch does not remove the citizenship of Russia. The king died, long live the king. Only the adoption of another citizenship like the Soviet one changes the jurisdiction of the subject.

[Foul skeptic]

What you call "citizenship of Russia" was called "citizenship of the Russian Sovereign". Any legal relationship implies the existence of an object and a subject of these relationships. The absence of any link excludes a relationship. Please name the object of citizenship in 1919?

[Evgenijus]

I read the article again. The text contains a diagram of the Donbas offensive operation. The year is indicated - 1919. In the same place, arrows indicate the direction of the offensive actions of the "Soviet troops". Names are taken indiscriminately. Where from? Soviet troops appeared only in February 1946. Plagiarism which of the "Kalinar technical school"
I accept further cons ...