In the United States decided to return to operation light propeller aircraft

The US Congress insists that the country's air force consider transferring part of the funds allocated for light propeller-driven aircraft to the Special Operations Command, Defense News writes. Presumably, this measure will help to buy in the end a lot more of these machines for the needs of the military.

Initially, the United States Air Force planned to purchase several Textron Aviation AT-6 and Embraer A-29 units for testing. However, even with serial purchase, their number would still not be large, since the limited budget did not allow it. However, when the United States Special Operations Command is connected, the total number of machines purchased may become noticeably larger due to a different cost allocation scheme.

In the production of modern helicopter attack aircraft, the most advanced technologies are used, which makes them effective, despite the somewhat archaic look. In particular, it is stated that aircraft of this type are successfully used in Latin America and Afghanistan against local rebel groups.

In addition to efficiency, a modern propeller-driven aircraft is much cheaper than a jet one, and its operation is less expensive. All these qualities made the Pentagon pay attention to cars similar to the AT-6 and A-29.

Comments

[Sergey39]

And bicycles are cheaper than armored personnel carriers.

[Proton]

They have a lot of blacks there in the army, ride high, on the battlefield, women still give birth

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

It's just that the USA knows how to count money. Relatively inexpensive modern turboprop machines A-29 with a good optoelectronic complex for reconnaissance, observation and target designation, plus a good set of guided weapons, suitable for use from high altitudes (UAB) and ranges (Hellfire). When loitering at some distance from the line of contact with the enemy, such a platform is practically invulnerable from massive short-range air defense systems (MANPADS, ZPU, ZA), forcing the enemy to use full-fledged short / medium-range air defense systems to counter it - of which a) the number is limited; b) which cannot be pulled too close to the front line due to their vulnerability - from the same artillery and MLRS. At the same time, there are essentially no restrictions for firing with A-29 Hellfires from a distance of several kilometers. On the A-29, you can, if you wish, install the Hellfire, which has a range of up to 11 km at the moment. For example, in Iraq, the Cessna AC-208B Combat Caravan turboprop carried the main burden of the aircraft defeat of ISIS units before the United States intervened in the matter. Hellfires were leaving by the hundreds. A-29s can be very effective against all sorts of paramilitary groups, and in the air they can successfully fight against UAVs and combat helicopters. It is head and shoulders above the latter in terms of climb rate, steady turn rate and maximum flight speed.
Cessna AC-208B Combat Caravan

[KCA]

Yakovlev's design bureau is time to think where on the Yak-152 it is possible to attach a couple of GSh-30 and suspension for light missiles, like the Verba MANPADS

[KCA]

There will be a highly maneuverable fighter of gaining dominance in the air, the SU-35 is resting :-)

[Zeev Zeev]

Yakovlev Design Bureau tried to do this in 1982. Did not work out

[KCA]

Helicopter sports aircraft? They even succeeded, many of the leading athletes in the world prefer the Yak-50 and Yak-52, or are you talking about a fighter? Well, finalize the Yak-50, Yak-52, Yak-152, and bend the Luftwaffe to the ground, I’ve collected it in the city of DMZ, IL-2 during the war, will switch to Yak-152, the drawings stayed and remained on the IL and on the Yak and on the MiG (except for the assembly of IL-2, components for the entire fleet were also manufactured)

[Zeev Zeev]

It did not work out to create a counterguerrilla aircraft based on the Yak-52 (a modification with two NURS units and a reinforced wing). Because the armament was frankly weak, and the aircraft itself did not shine with either range or carrying capacity, even in comparison with the ancient AT-6 or T-28, well-known to the Soviet military in Africa and Southeast Asia.
About IL-2. It was not for nothing that the pilots called this plane an "iron", and it was not for nothing that they were given a Hero's Star for 25 sorties.

[xax]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

IL-2. It is not for nothing that the pilots called this plane "iron"

How many hours do you have, grandfather?

[Proton]

Yes, what kind of money, well, screw machines, what are you talking about, even if there are several thousand, it’s ridiculous, given the current air defense systems, countries that aren’t even very developed in this regard.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Proton

Yes, what kind of money, well, screw machines, what are you talking about, even if there are several thousand, it’s ridiculous, given the current air defense systems, countries that aren’t even very developed in this regard.

It is not necessary to use them in the WAR against any countries. You can disperse the same Japanese-Korean-Chinese poachers in our economic zone.

[rosomaha]

I completely agree ... not in vain because the Turks are Hurkus-S, and the UAE B-250 Bader is launched in pr-in. It’s a pity that the Mwari project was closed

[Stalllker]

And when Russia began modernizing the T72, they immediately started shouting fuuuu

[Yarr_Arr]

Strange arithmetic is obtained: cheap barrage, but a bearded boy with Kalashnikov is covered by Hellfire.
In my opinion, it doesn't smell like saving

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

There will be time to read the article "Combat Agricultural Aviation".
https://topwar.ru/93960-boevaya-selskohozyaystvennaya-aviaciya.html

[Good_Anonymous]

F-16 barrage hour - $ 25k, A-29 barrage hour - $ 1k. It’s easy to calculate that the savings are $ 24k per hour. For 5 hours, the price of 1 Hellfire is saved.

[Yarr_Arr]

You do not quite understand my speech: 1-2 Barbudas is still not the goal for both options!
The option [drone detection] - [crash suppression] - [1 hour of operation] seems more balanced, but here the share of the cost of ammunition is already increasing. Something like this...

[Good_Anonymous]

Quote: Yarr_Arr

You do not quite understand my speech: 1-2 Barbudas is still not the goal for both options!

Why not? Barbudos is also not free. And it is not necessary to plant Hellfires on them - the AGR-20 discussed in the next topic is enough, and it is 4 times cheaper.

Quote: Yarr_Arr

Option [drone detection] - [crash suppression]

In addition to the fact that a cheap hour can make the "loitering attack" option (instead of "suppression mission") profitable, there is also the "reconnaissance group escort" option: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3519/ those-old-ov-10-broncos-sent-to-fight-isis-were-laser-rocket-slinging-manhunters

[Prisoner]

Then, to counter it is possible to create fighter units based on the same type of vehicles. Maybe it’s time to get the La-7 documentation, brush off the dust and start the modernization work?

[Revolver]

Quote: Captive

Maybe it's time to get documentation on La-7

It's more like an IL-2 than a La-7. And then not as a basis for modernization, but as an example to follow. The internal combustion engine should be replaced with a turboprop, a steel armored capsule for titanium, a wooden tail and wings for aluminum or even composite. Put digital devices, radars. The armament is modern. A gunner with a drill collar is useless nowadays, but an operator of weapons and radars will come in handy, and a couple of air-to-air missiles in the rear hemisphere will not hurt. It turns out a completely new plane. In general, you need to count the money. If it turns out much cheaper than an attack helicopter, then it makes sense, and if not, then helicopters solve approximately the same tasks and do not need airfields.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

Just in the US they know how to count money

Not a fact.
First, unlike combat helicopters, for the same response time they require an airfield network, which for some reason is not included in the price.
Secondly, their capabilities, unlike drone UAVs, depend on the pilot. His training is much more expensive, and at the same time, the time of his combat duty in the air is lower.

Yes, at one time it turned out that the cost of an hour of flight for an OV-10 is almost four times less than that of a UAV or Apache. But this is an old plane. New ones will cost more.

[vitinka]

A-29 turboprops with a good optoelectronic reconnaissance, surveillance and target designation complex, plus a good set of guided weapons suitable for use from elevated altitudes (UAB) and ranges (Hellfire).


A bespilotniki zacem then? Mozet dengi koncajutsa?

[pmkemcity]

A good alternative to drones. Yes, the same for helicopters.

[svp67]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

It's just that in the USA they know how to count money.

No, now it is not visible. And this attempt, just an attempt to save on something ... and this is something - expensive heavy strike UAVs
In the USSR, in the event of losses in the world war, from nuclear strikes, such "attack aircraft of the apocalypse" were developed in the Grunin Design Bureau, what is preventing these projects from being revived now?

[Amin_vivec]

It can be said that the niche of such equipment largely intersects the niche of heavy attack helicopters, while there are advantages, there are also disadvantages:
+ speed, profitability;
- the need for a runway, the difficulty of working due to shelter.

[edeligor]

Strongly support. As light attack aircraft, with relatively low speeds, at low altitudes, these aircraft are indispensable! Considering modern developments on engines, you can hang up a strong reservation and then the problem of small air defense will partially be removed.

[DAC scratch]

Quote: Proton

They have a lot of blacks there in the army, ride high, on the battlefield, women still give birth

not funny considering where this joke came from

[Lopatov]

Quote: crap scratch

not funny considering where this joke came from

From the movie "Peter the First"
The rest is liberal propaganda

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Spade

Lopatov

You have turned yellow. It used to mean "subscriber". And now what is it, if not a secret?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Spade

Lopatov

You have turned yellow. It used to mean "subscriber". And now what is it, if not a secret?

Heh ... The "best commentators" recorded
View profile.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Spade

The "best commentators" wrote
View profile

I get it. Well, congratulations, I guess

[cost]

Proton (Australian Cactus):They have a lot of blacks there in the army, ride high, on the battlefield, women still give birth

Especially for you, Proton

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey39

And bicycles are cheaper than armored personnel carriers.

A bicycle, not a bicycle, but a motorcycle for sure ...

[Chaldon48]

Buggy is already being taken seriously, and we have ATVs. I would like to see this lover of cheapness sitting not in a warm and safe office, but on this wagtail in the war zone.

[xax]

Do not teach the Yankees to live))))))))

Quote from Wikipedia:

The US Armed Forces air infantry is equipped with the Montague Paratrooper bicycle - a 24-speed, folding (without tools and accessories, it can be moved from a stowed position to a fully functional (and vice versa) in less than 30 seconds, a bicycle capable of carrying 227 kilograms.

[Lone gunman]

That's it, a classy ... vehicle.

[DenZ]

In particular, it is stated that aircraft of this type are successfully used in Latin America and Afghanistan against local rebel groups.

- Again, they are going to fight with the rebels, apparently. Interestingly, someone this time.

[Rostislav]

If against any barmaley, then it seems to fit.
Although now it is difficult to find which group without MANPADS, so the use of such aircraft can be expensive for penguins.

[Good_Anonymous]

Such aircraft, of course, will stay above the MANPADS destruction limit. How "real" strike aircraft are doing now.

[awdrgy]

Recently, here and there infa slips about such measures (propeller planes, economical cars, etc.) What is the first call of a resource "hunger"? Will it be more profitable to arm the infantry with pneumatics and a saber?

[lucul]

Recently, here and there infa slips about such measures (propeller planes, economical cars, etc.) That this is the first call of the resource "hunger"

Have you just woken up? ))))
The peak of resources (mining), mankind passed this year .... Only hard-to-recover resources remain - and Russia was not succeeded in destroying (access to resources), so they have a sad sorrow ....

[awdrgy]

Access to Russian resources is almost absolute (with the exception of hard to recover) the destruction of our country is not necessary for this (at least in the literal sense of the word), but this is a completely different story

[Livonetc]

The cabin (the apparatus in the photo) impresses with its visibility and volume.

[lucul]

The cabin (the apparatus in the photo) impresses with its visibility and volume.

Yeah, and aerodynamic drag)))

[stels_07]

This is true stealth

[Zaurbek]

A sound approach ... on a civil theater with ammunition, even with Hephaestus. Although more practical, I think that something like Pukara will be.

[Proton]

And what generally happens in the world carts and balloons in line or what?

[lucul]

carts and balloons in line or what?

Russia resisted ....)))

[knn54]

Based on the IL-10, taking into account modern realities and the availability of equipment, you can make a modern helicopter attack aircraft.

[rosomaha]

from Ila to take the concept (booking, set survivability). But the rest is to re-use materials, engine and 21st century technology to use. WTO, although leaving the opportunity to work ABSP and NAR. As for MANPADS - suspended sets of opt / e-suppression on special nodes, so as not to eat BN. As for weapons in general, there are a couple of built-in guns, and 6-7 knots of a suspension for weapons + 2 knots at the tips for opt / el suppression systems. ATGM, NAR, UR based on S8, UAB from 25 to 250 kg. URVV, ABSP. PTB, cont with special equipment. To search for targets and aim weapons - a round-the-clock opt / el system with a 360-degree view of the lower hemisphere on a gyrostab platform. Ejection seats

[Pavel57]

Make a high-speed helicopter if modern ones do not suit.

[Zaurbek]

It is necessary to proceed from the theater, which (e) is available. TV117 and their derivatives 2200-2500 HP

[Doliva63]

And on the basis of Po-2 - stealth 6th generation
But here, by the way, I read that then (in the 30s) they did such a plane - from Plexiglas or something, I don’t remember, but I remember that the idea was to let the fuselage pass (without allowing reflection) / reflect (at an angle inaccessible to the observer) light. And how it took off, only, like, the engine was audible. Technique - Youth, 70s.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Doliva63

But here, by the way, I read that then (in the 30s) they did such a plane - from Plexiglas or something, I don’t remember, but I remember that the idea was to let the fuselage pass (without allowing reflection) / reflect (at an angle inaccessible to the observer) light. And how it took off, only, like, the engine was audible. Technique - Youth, 70s.

It was in the section "anthology of mysterious cases" That is, no traces were found.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Spade

Quote: Doliva63

But here, by the way, I read that then (in the 30s) they did such a plane - from Plexiglas or something, I don’t remember, but I remember that the idea was to let the fuselage pass (without allowing reflection) / reflect (at an angle inaccessible to the observer) light. And how it took off, only, like, the engine was audible. Technique - Youth, 70s.

It was in the section "anthology of mysterious cases" That is, no traces were found.

The traces just remained in history, they did not find any material evidence - yes.

[Maks1995]

Right. Both we and they have subsonic bombardier attack aircraft.
And if subsonic - then why not make a screw, modern, the good even the old screw are still used ... and here and there they are in storage ... you can upgrade ...

[Lone gunman]

So it seems, I read somewhere that planes of this type have long been in service with the US army, damn it ... The attacks are cool, any army in the world will go to control the border, and even fight with the "rebels" from ISIS, and unmanned variants, so generally "chocolate".

[Stalllker]

The same plane can be made from composite is it a kind of "stealth" ?!

[Po-tzan]

In principle, this technique has a niche. But the question is, how much is the use of such aircraft more justified than the use of shock drones.

[Adimius38]

Americans know how to count money; it’s not Russia where we shoot two barmels with caliber, but we destroy the hut in Syria with the expensive Su-34, it’s much cheaper to use propeller aircraft for certain tasks

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Zamvolt and F-35 have not caught your eye?
Hundreds of billions of money of American retirees, lowered into the sewers by the Irish mafiosi.

[Adimius38]

Well, they made fun))))))) F-35 produced more than 475 cars while the export potential of this machine surpassed all our aircraft industry together)))) and you say that this is money down the drain)))) About 1000 cars only for the Air Force of other countries outside the United States. On this BACKGROUND MIG-35 and Su-57 HERE WHERE MONEY IS WIND, since we actually have no export potential, we can buy them only for ourselves and then in scanty amounts.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

This winged server is just an airplane layout. The Israelis barely brought their cars to flight condition, throwing half of the American electronics.

[Adimius38]

This server with wings is an example of how to trade and make money for the economy of your country, for the development of the aviation industry, and not to milk the pockets of pensioners. We look into our eyes to buy at least a dozen Mig-35s, no one wants to buy a Su-57 .... Hundreds of millions, billions of taxpayers' rubles have been thrown onto planes that no one is buying. In the United States, it’s completely different, they buy their planes and they beat off the money invested in their development. We can only make fun of them, but in reality they look sorry for them, at least in the field of the aviation industry and export of aircraft, in particular, this applies to civil aircraft construction and export. No matter how insulting this sounds, you can’t argue with the facts. How many F-35s were sold and ordered worldwide and how many our combat aircraft were sold and ordered together. How many superjets we sold in the world and how many Boeing sells every year.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Quote: Adimius38

This server with wings is an example of how to trade and make money for the economy of your country.

Well, this is not a new invention. The Opium Wars in China remember? When the British smashed the Chinese for the right to sell opium from India in China (which then was not divided into Pakistan, India, Bangladesh). And the British sold huge batches of opium in exchange for gold.
So now, the US European colonies must buy technological trash, for the happiness of the Irish mafioso, which owns the Boeing.
As for invisibility, this is a certain tricky trick. Because the invisible plane is blind, but it’s worth turning on the locator at least for a moment, as this is equivalent to a cry - I'm here! Since the body of any aircraft is dotted with radiation sensors, the enemy will immediately turn his nose towards the radar, and then hide, do not hide - the ultraviolet luminescence of the oxygen flowing around the plane will highlight it for 80 km.
And without a locator - you will see an opponent at a distance of 15-30 km, and this is already a maneuverable battle.

[Incvizitor]

If they manage to adapt their "high-precision weapons" and Fu 35 will not be needed, Fu's flight qualities are no better, the price is much higher, what's the difference on what to deliver bombs and missiles against the Papuans?

[Arthur 85]

And Cho against the Papuans? what's the difference, why launch a rocket, even with a balloon?

[ABM]

We will answer PO-2 (U-2) to the machinations!

[mark2]

What can I say ....
You can be sure of one thing, since a probable opponent began to think about propeller planes, then he is not going to fight in a global conflict. And this is good.

[Arthur 85]

Can not be.

[Scharnhorst]

To combat the irregular army, IL-2, modernized at the modern level, is also suitable. the cost of the squadron of ILs is comparable to one Su-34; take off from a forest line at the front line; reaction time is shorter; you can arrange a flight in the air and 12 tail tails are better than one!

[Engineer]

I have always been visited by seditious thought that a simple copy of the Corsair F4U or Skyrader for assault strikes will be more effective than modern over-priced machines. Corsair’s fight with Apache I would also like to see, at least training

[Ironcity]

So this thought occupied me for a long time. All these attack helicopters do not use the main helicopter advantage: they, like planes, take off from the airfield and return to it, so what’s the point in general: a screw plane can be made cheaper, with characteristics higher, it will perform the same tasks for less money.

[AML]

Quote: alloy01

Here they laughed at Ukraine here, and Nonech Tyvinian announces that it is necessary to narrow the gap (well, or, to widen the gap) and take care of the turboprops too - so here the whole VO forum will prove that they were always with both hands.

The problem is not that Ukraine can make propeller-driven aircraft, but that at present this is its technological maximum. With such a degradation of the aircraft industry, one must be sad. And the "strongest army in Europe" on hang gliders is really funny.

[AML]

Quote: KCA

Yakovlev Design Bureau is time to think where on the Yak-152 can to attach a couple of GSh-30 and suspension systems for light missiles, such as "Verba" MANPADS

And to revolutionize the aircraft industry. The first plane flying backwards.

[AML]

Quote: mark2

What can I say ....
You can be sure of one thing, since a probable opponent began to think about propeller planes, then he is not going to fight in a global conflict. And this is good.

It seems that just the opposite. How long does modern jet aircraft last in a full-fledged clash? Well for another month. And then what? Look at the statistics of the Second World War, per month ~ 1000 aircraft in minus. And this is without MANPADS and with rudimentary air defense. Well with the planes, but where to get the pilots? To do this, you need a light drummer, which can be assembled with the help of a chisel and some mother in an hour and a half on his knees in the garage. And who can pilot pilot reading the instructions for use at breakfast.

[cat Rusich]

WWII Germans started with Me-109B, and ended with Me-262 (with jet engines). Now the United States will also start with AT-6, AT-29, and end with F-35. About pilots - pilots end faster than airplanes. About air defense - air defense fighters are part of air defense, outdated aircraft and poorly trained pilots - the first victims of air defense fighters.

[Ros 56]

And they will meet DShK with optics or even better, with an electronic sight, and no one canceled MANPADS.

[Ham]

in fact, it's all about money:

The US Congress insists that the country's air force consider transferring part of the funds allocated for light propeller-driven aircraft to the Special Operations Command

there is not enough cut green paper for all of them, and such excesses begin in the "development of the budget" ...
air force and csr share loot of amer taxpayers