Military Review

Norman format? On the front line in Lao PDR does not apply!

53

But does it make sense?



Of course, we, the inhabitants, can not know anything about the real topics and results of the negotiations within the framework of the Norman format (as well as in all others). All we have to be content with is the final communique and megatons of chewing gum, which, under the guise of “insiders” and “analysts,” are fed to the public by the media and all kinds of “experts”.

That is why I want to believe that in fact Putin, Macron, Merkel and Zelensky agreed in Paris to something more than what was announced following the negotiations. Because otherwise they obviously were going in vain. Why agree on new places for the withdrawal of troops, if the Ukrainian military safely returns to the old ones, on which the breeding was supposed to happen in the 2015-2016 years?

Go away to return


Today, fighting is still ongoing on the demarcation line using large calibers, artillery, armored vehicles and drones. Information about the dead and wounded on both sides appears daily - only, unlike the Ukrainian side, in the LNR they prefer to say that the enemy was blown up on his own mines, choked with bacon and all in the same vein.

At the breeding sites, the shooting also does not cease, and on Thursday representatives of the LPR People’s Militia announced that the Ukrainian military had regained their positions.

“Within the area of ​​breeding site No. 1 in the area of ​​the village of Stanitsa Luganskaya, the military personnel of the 46-th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are in the previously abandoned positions, which is a direct violation of the eighth paragraph of the Framework decision of the tripartite Contact Group on the separation of forces and means, signed on September 20 of 2016 and prohibiting the presence of military personnel in the breeding areas of the parties ",

- claim at the headquarters of the 2 of the LPR army corps, referring also to the representatives of the OSCE, who also witnessed the return of the Armed Forces to their positions.

What is the point of agreeing on new points of the separation of forces and assets if, in areas where peace and rest had long been to come, they can actually start shooting again at any moment? By the way, over the past year alone, the OSCE recorded more than 4 thousand shootings in the checkpoints through which LDNR residents travel to Ukraine and back. That is, even at CPVV no one can feel safe.

Endless story


All this Santa Barbara, connected with the Minsk Agreements, might seem like a fun undertaking, if not for the losses among the fighters and civilians and the gradual destruction of infrastructure. The other day, despite preliminary agreements, the Armed Forces of Ukraine opened fire on a repair team that was trying to repair a damaged section of the aqueduct near Gorlovka.

All that we see today is promises, loud statements, imitation of violent activity in front of lenses and other political and diplomatic leapfrog, but the only thing that could become a real marker of a qualitative change in the situation is a ceasefire for at least a month. All truces declared were a dummy. As a rule, after a statement about a "bread", "school" or any other truce, firing begins at best in the evening. Therefore, hundreds of thousands of residents of Donbass, the sixth year of living under the gun of enemy artillery, have long had no faith in words.

However, Novorossia is not discouraged and continues to live its own life. She studies, works and stands in colossal lines for Russian passports, which have stretched for more than 10 months.

Single ray of light


In fact, amid endless chatter, this is the only ray of light in the dark realm. The only concrete peremptory decision of Russia, which allows us to believe that when a critical mass of Russian citizens on the territory of LDNR is reached, Ukraine will forever remain in the past, and with it the hardships of war. Still shoot at the Russians APU hardly dare. It is thanks to this hope that people find the strength to live in constant danger and calmly react to the next madness of Kiev, which either announces its intention to deport the inhabitants of Donbass, or wants to fence itself off from them ...

The number of people who received Russian citizenship is gradually growing, and I want to believe that the speed of certification will increase. Perhaps this is the only good news for the local population. For the sake of this, one can endure everything: war, delays of an already low salary, unprofessionalism of the authorities. People believe that sooner or later it will all end. After all, it was for the sake of these passports that it all began almost six years ago, in 2014.
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  1. Comrade
    Comrade 15 December 2019 06: 03
    +6
    in fact, Putin, Macron, Merkel and Zelensky agreed in Paris to something more than what was announced after the talks. Because otherwise they were clearly going to waste

    Near Kiev no powers to resolve issues of war and peace in the Donbass, this is the whole problem.
    Europe hypocritically pretends that it does not understand.
    But those who could really influence Ukraine and jokingly force it to comply with the Minsk Agreement, instead provide it with hundreds of millions of dollars in annual "military assistance". Why do they do this is a rhetorical question, the answer lies on the surface.
    1. depressant
      depressant 15 December 2019 09: 24
      +6
      As long as the European Union provides aid to Ukraine in the hundreds of millions of euros, and as long as the United States provides assistance to Ukraine in billions of dollars and weapons, Ukraine will fight against the DPR and LPR. The messages are clear: Ukraine is officially not a member of the European Union and is not included in the Euro-Atlantic Union. So fight! Otherwise, you, the Ukrainian authorities, will have nothing to cut and poke into your pockets.
      And help will go. Because this is a modern form of war between Europe and the USA with Russia against the background of a silent but capable of talking nuclear weapons. There is nothing to think about. Therefore, all these Norman meetings are a failure and, in essence, a fiction.
      But for us, the certification of residents of the Russian republics, it seems, is the only way out. Until then, until the quantity passes into quality. Then - a referendum, and the one who is more polite, as in the Crimea, and therefore will win, will be right.
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 15 December 2019 13: 03
        +4
        why such confidence that they will not shoot at the owners of Russian passports?
  2. Qwertyarion
    Qwertyarion 15 December 2019 06: 20
    +3
    . I want to believe that in fact Putin, Macron, Merkel and Zelensky agreed

    No, they didn’t agree ....
    It is not possible to agree with the Natsiks, only the grave will correct the humpbacks.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 15 December 2019 08: 34
      +3
      Quote: Qwertyarion
      No, they didn’t agree ....

      It was confirmed that Minsk-2 should be performed regardless of the name of the President of Ukraine.
      1. Lelek
        Lelek 15 December 2019 12: 49
        +1
        Quote: Boris55
        It was confirmed that Minsk-2 should be performed regardless of the name of the President of Ukraine.

        hi
        Confirmed, confirmed, only Kiev interprets all documents and agreements in its own way. The withdrawal of troops from the contact line is supposed to stretch for 8-20 years, the issue of the border puts at the forefront the special status of LDNR (which Kiev should agree with the republics) is trying to replace the law on "decentralization" - another trick.

        Well, and, as a summary, a non-negotiable country, a liar and a PR-box of a cheap spill, president, no commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
        1. cniza
          cniza 15 December 2019 15: 03
          +2
          Well, and, as a summary, a non-negotiable country, a liar and a PR-box of a cheap spill, president, no commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine


          He would still play KVN, but he got into politics ...
  3. ML-334
    ML-334 15 December 2019 06: 34
    +2
    Zelensky went to see people and show himself, because he has no opportunity to make any decisions.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 15 December 2019 07: 03
      -1
      Quote: ML-334
      Zelensky went to see people and show himself, because he has no opportunity to make any decisions.

      He was a comedian, he remained a comedian. But only to those who fall under the distribution, somehow not laughing.
  4. Victoria-V
    Victoria-V 15 December 2019 07: 43
    +8
    Something Makhov changed his mind. Six months ago, I wrote a true article, but now I do not understand it. Here's what happened before: There are problems, and we need to talk about them openly, voicing everything that can be voiced. Instead, almost like in the case of former compatriots, there was a continuous “peermogue” and cap-hatred. I recall how Zakharchenko opened a bus production line, and Plotnitsky launched a cartridge factory. Now the faces on the screen have changed, but the program is still the same.
    Sooner or later, this whole story will end either with the fact that higher authorities will introduce direct control in the republics and put their own people who can at least slightly meet the existing challenges. Or by the fact that everyone who will be able to flee from the republics. And in LDNR there will remain pensioners and few who have no chance to settle down in Russia. And talking heads will smile to them about the fact that they have something there grew by 230%.
    It is impossible to travel endlessly for hatred of Ukrainian fascism, the exploits of 2014 of the year, hurray-patriotism and the carrot of future integration with Russia. Moreover, almost anyone can go according to the program of compatriots and single-handedly integrate with the Russian Federation without Pasechnik with Pushilin.
    1. rufaqn
      rufaqn 15 December 2019 07: 52
      -5
      in the sections of the analyst and opinion (didn’t I understand how they differ?) there are a lot of articles for the sake of articles, well, as long as they read and write comments they are in demand, and this is the bread of the authors.
    2. Kronos
      Kronos 15 December 2019 13: 05
      +1
      The harder the situation, the more cheers of patriotism and hatred will be.
    3. Sadam
      Sadam 15 December 2019 19: 35
      0
      reasonably. and what solutions do you see ???
  5. Victoria-V
    Victoria-V 15 December 2019 07: 47
    +7
    But the bottom line is that people are tired of war and bullshit. And they want a good life today, not tomorrow.
  6. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 15 December 2019 07: 49
    +2
    All we have to be content with is the final communique and megatons of chewing gum, which, under the guise of “insiders” and “analysts,” are fed to the public by the media and all kinds of “experts”.
    And why then the rest of the text? ..
  7. Victoria-V
    Victoria-V 15 December 2019 08: 05
    +3
    Makhov writes: APU opened fire on a repair team that was trying to repair a damaged section of a water conduit near Gorlovka. Egor ! Is it not Daniel Bezsonov or the mayor of the city, Ivan Prikhodko? APU bastards shoot right and left every day, but in this case it was not so. Surely you have good friends among the residents of Gorlov. Ask around ...
  8. K-50
    K-50 15 December 2019 08: 10
    +2
    The other day, despite preliminary agreements, the Armed Forces of Ukraine opened fire on a repair team that was trying to repair a damaged section of the aqueduct near Gorlovka.

    Can somehow "tie" OSCE inspectors and media correspondents to such trips.
    It seems to me that under such "supervision" the military or terrorist battalions will not fire at obviously non-military targets?
    Although they certainly don’t care who to shoot at, they probably don’t remember themselves after the vodka and weed. lol
  9. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 15 December 2019 08: 17
    +2
    Therefore, hundreds of thousands of residents of Donbass, the sixth year of living under the gun of enemy artillery, have long had no faith in words.
    However, Novorossia is not discouraged and continues to live its own life.
    It is difficult to live when faith is smeared painfully with a thin layer for several years to come.
    In 2014, it seemed to many that the window to Russia was open. It is only necessary to survive. But, the media actively discussed the topic that it is impossible to force events and disrupt the holding of the World Cup in Russia. Again, they waited, hoped. Many believed that through the political talk show, about the problems in the Donbass and ways to solve them, the position of Russia was brought up. Alas! But, everyone understands that, Russia is not just a guarantor, it helps to solve the most important issues of the existence of the DLNR, although it itself was not sweet.
    Political hope flared up again after a decision was made to issue Russian passports. There, they were happy, but when they found out how much its cost would cost, they were again depressed. Most of those who wish to give a monthly salary or pension are not yet able to - in the family, most often, one breadwinner.
    The last "Minsk" has passed - another dummy. The main difficulties and ways of solving them, according to forecasts of political scientists, will arise by the spring of 2020. And by that time, there is a threat of recognition by the Washington regional committee of the DLNR as terrorist organizations, and Russia will be tied up as their accomplice. And at the same time, near Kaliningrad, the largest military grouping of the West will be drawn ... Again, big problems of military-political confrontation! It remains to wait! Russians are patient. Forever, such an uncertain situation as in Transnistria will not continue, not the geographical position, beyond them, the border of Russia.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 15 December 2019 13: 08
      +2
      The only thing you can wait for with such approaches is either that everyone who can leave or the Ukrainians will begin to advance again
  10. Starper-xnumx
    Starper-xnumx 15 December 2019 08: 24
    +2
    All this Santa Barbara, connected with the Minsk Agreements, might seem like a fun undertaking, if not for the losses among the fighters and civilians and the gradual destruction of infrastructure.

    You can’t argue with this, every day someone dies and not the military ..
    And all this can go on for decades .. And this is not profitable for Russia, something needs to be done and cardinal
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 15 December 2019 13: 07
      +5
      Why is it not profitable? Favorably pulls away from Crimea and spit on inhabitants of DNR
      1. Starper-xnumx
        Starper-xnumx 15 December 2019 14: 31
        -2
        Quote: Kronos
        Why is it not profitable? Favorably pulls away from Crimea and spit on inhabitants of DNR

        Crimea is ours for a long time and there is no use changing anything there ..
        But on the account of the DNI, you are in vain so hi ..Can arrange a new dill boiler? They clearly understand this ..? Well, there really is no way, so when we take Kiev, you will clean it up, it’s your right and we will close our eyes. Turning away .. (and we will catch and extinguish them with bags at the borders ..)))
        We will solve this problem .. soldier
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 15 December 2019 14: 51
          +2
          In fact, but according to the laws I admit it for Ukraine, they impose sanctions on what Russia does not like, because I want it to be as before
        2. The comment was deleted.
  11. Ros 56
    Ros 56 15 December 2019 10: 04
    +1
    What can you negotiate with the banderlog? They are geared towards destroying Russia as such and Russian-speaking and supporters of Russia on "their" territory. Hence, there is only one conclusion: Carthage, in the sense of Banderlogy, must be destroyed. This will protect us in the future from many troubles, or rather great grief.
    1. major147
      major147 15 December 2019 12: 36
      +1
      Quote: Ros 56
      What can you negotiate with the banderlog? They are geared towards destroying Russia as such and Russian-speaking and supporters of Russia on "their" territory.

      Nazi Drozdov demanded to destroy "as a species" Russian-speaking children in Ukraine. "Russian-speaking children must disappear from the face of my country."
  12. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 15 December 2019 10: 29
    -2
    The only concrete peremptory decision of Russia, which allows us to believe that when a critical mass of Russian citizens on the territory of LDNR is reached, Ukraine will forever remain in the past, and with it the hardships of war. Still shoot at the Russians APU hardly dare.

    here is the key! the goal of all this mess is shooting at the Russians! hence the purpose of meeting with Putin, to probe him, what will Russia do when a Russian with a passport is killed? will we respond mirrored or Core Madrid? these politicians are in power as long as they keep Russia tight. Therefore, you can’t stop and continue fearfully.
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 15 December 2019 11: 38
      +2
      Quote: aybolyt678
      here is the key! the goal of all this mess is shooting at the Russians! hence the purpose of meeting with Putin, to probe him, what will Russia do when a Russian with a passport is killed?

      The question is what the Russian was doing on the territory of Ukraine in the zone of the so-called. The fact that he died here is the fault of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, which negligently treated his duties, did not explain to his citizen that in Ukraine, in the place where the Russian voluntarily decided to be, there are hostilities, and neither Russia nor Ukraine can guarantee its safety. Especially Russia, since the hostilities are not taking place on the territory of the Russian Federation. If you are a Russian, be in Russia, and do not go under the bullets on the territory of Ukraine. Everything is in the nomes and borders of international law. Conclusion - the Russian who died on the territory of Ukraine is to blame for this. Tochka. The migrant worker "dies on the territory of the Russian Federation through his own fault or through the fault of third parties, it is foolish to blame Russia for his death. So here.
      1. major147
        major147 15 December 2019 12: 48
        +2
        Quote: revnagan
        Quote: aybolyt678
        here is the key! the goal of all this mess is shooting at the Russians! hence the purpose of meeting with Putin, to probe him, what will Russia do when a Russian with a passport is killed?

        The question is what the Russian was doing on the territory of Ukraine in the zone of the so-called. The fact that he died here is the fault of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, which negligently treated his duties, did not explain to his citizen that in Ukraine, in the place where the Russian voluntarily decided to be, there are hostilities, and neither Russia nor Ukraine can guarantee its safety. Especially Russia, since the hostilities are not taking place on the territory of the Russian Federation. If you are a Russian, be in Russia, and do not go under the bullets on the territory of Ukraine. Everything is in the nomes and borders of international law. Conclusion - the Russian who died on the territory of Ukraine is to blame for this. Tochka. The migrant worker "dies on the territory of the Russian Federation through his own fault or through the fault of third parties, it is foolish to blame Russia for his death. So here.

        1983 year. The island is the state of Grenada. The US Expeditionary Force smashed all the military units on the island and occupied it under the pretext of protecting a group of American student tourists. And after a while he got out of there, leaving "his" administration on the island.
        1. Avior
          Avior 15 December 2019 13: 05
          +1
          Are you talking about this story when when the communists quarreled in Grenada and shot each other?
          Following the tragedy in Fort Rupert, an extraordinary meeting of the Organization of East Caribbean States was convened on October 21 to discuss ways to end anarchy and violence in Grenada. Acting under Article 8 of the OECS 1981 Collective Security Treaty, members voted to ask Barbados, Jamaica, and the United States to join them in sending a multinational peacekeeping force to Grenada
          1. major147
            major147 15 December 2019 17: 20
            +1
            Quote: Avior
            in Grenada, the Communists quarreled and shot each other?

            I know, but this is their internal affair. On the outskirts, the same thing, in a way.
            1. Avior
              Avior 15 December 2019 18: 02
              0
              Not quite pure inner
              in accordance with Article 8 of the OECS 1981 Collective Security Treaty
              1. major147
                major147 15 December 2019 18: 05
                +1
                Quote: Avior
                Not quite pure inner
                in accordance with Article 8 of the OECS 1981 Collective Security Treaty

                But the United States is not a member of the OECS. And they did not explain the capture of the island by a request from the OECS members.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 15 December 2019 18: 07
                  +2
                  You read, they were invited to join
                  Again, the Cuban factor
                  I mean, the situation there was more complicated than just protecting students
                  1. major147
                    major147 15 December 2019 18: 11
                    +1
                    Quote: Avior
                    You read, they were invited to join
                    Again, the Cuban factor
                    I mean, the situation there was more complicated than just protecting students

                    I know, but when it matasnikov stopped, how is the situation with a USS wreck of an Iranian passenger plane. They just spit on such trifles.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 16 December 2019 00: 05
                      0
                      Americans paid compensation for downed Iranian Boeing
                      The circumstances in which they shot down are known
            2. revnagan
              revnagan 15 December 2019 20: 05
              -4
              Quote: major147
              On the outskirts, the same thing, in some way

              "On the outskirts" of what? Ukraine? Russia?
        2. revnagan
          revnagan 15 December 2019 20: 03
          -4
          Quote: major147
          1983 year. The island is the state of Grenada. The US Expeditionary Force smashed all the military units on the island and occupied it under the pretext of protecting a group of American student tourists.

          Grenada is where on the map? And what was the number and quality of the Grenadian ??? Armed forces? You do not confuse Grenada (well, or Georgia there) and Ukraine, America and Russia, as well as body parts, such as a finger and ... nose?
          1. major147
            major147 16 December 2019 00: 29
            0
            Quote: revnagan
            You do not confuse Grenada

            No! Do you understand what this is about .... or not?
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 15 December 2019 17: 34
        0
        Quote: revnagan
        If a Ukrainian "migrant worker" dies on the territory of the Russian Federation through his own fault or through the fault of third parties, then it is foolish to blame Russia for his death. So here.

        And if a Russian citizen does not just die in Ukraine, but with weapons in his hands? or kills another who is Ukrainian? the Russian Foreign Ministry is to blame for not explaining that killing is not good?
        1. revnagan
          revnagan 15 December 2019 20: 00
          -5
          Quote: aybolyt678
          And if a Russian citizen does not just die in Ukraine, but with weapons in his hands? or kills another who is Ukrainian?

          Here, everything is sad for such a Russian citizen. On the territory of Ukraine, with weapons in their hands, and even killing Ukrainians (representatives of the LAW, RECOGNIZED, INCLUDED BY THE RUSSIAN LEADERSHIP, authorities) .... Then this Russian terrorist and criminal, and it turns out that the US Senate is still right .... And since such citizens of Russia in Ukraine are completely illegal, the civic duty of every Ukrainian and ... well, you know ....
          1. Bear040
            Bear040 16 December 2019 22: 42
            0
            ALL of your Ukraine on the map of 1654, there were no independent Ukraine in other borders, there is no and it is not necessary ... You can continue to tell tales that you were not in Chechnya and Ossetia, but you were there and not only your military advisers, although given your friendship treaty with the Russian Federation, even your military advisers had nothing to do there ... So after you inherited in the Caucasus and gathered under Yushchenko in the EU and NATO, Russia owes you nothing more, except fair retribution for your crimes against Russia and its people
  13. Avior
    Avior 15 December 2019 11: 51
    -1
    A Russian passport is simply a way to transfer living to Russia without big problems
    By himself, he will not add a beggarly salary in LDNR
    It’s just that the population will decrease, especially for young people who have zero prospects for LDN
    1. major147
      major147 15 December 2019 12: 50
      0
      Quote: Avior
      A Russian passport is simply a way to transfer living to Russia without big problems
      By himself, he will not add a beggarly salary in LDNR
      It’s just that the population will decrease, especially for young people who have zero prospects for LDN

      "According to Viktor Vodolatsky, Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee on CIS Affairs, Eurasian Integration and Relations with Compatriots, there are currently six such points operating on the Don. Even before the New Year, new centers for issuing passports in a simplified manner will be available to residents of Donbass."
  14. Lelek
    Lelek 15 December 2019 12: 32
    +3
    ( Still shoot at the Russians APU hardly dare.)

    Dare, shoot, there are wounded on Saturday. And we - on the thumb - express concern. Natsik with a malicious smile do their job insolently, knowing that we will not give a decisive answer.
    1. cniza
      cniza 15 December 2019 15: 06
      +4
      Quote: Lelek
      ( Still shoot at the Russians APU hardly dare.)

      Natsik with a malicious smile do their job insolently, knowing that we will not give a decisive answer.


      Namely, they will stop only when they get between the eyes ...
  15. Revival
    Revival 15 December 2019 13: 35
    0
    I don’t understand a bit.
    We do not take passports pass? Why is the queue so huge?
    Or really do not really want it?
  16. Revival
    Revival 15 December 2019 13: 38
    +1
    What’s interesting, we don’t master handing out passports?
    Or do we really want it?
    Why such lines?
    And further..
    I have great doubts that there will be serious consequences from us, even if someone who received a Russian passport is killed
  17. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 15 December 2019 13: 51
    -6
    It is time to stop useless negotiations with Bandera and begin to seriously prepare for war, since it is inevitable
  18. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 15 December 2019 16: 24
    +1
    Quote: ML-334
    Zelensky went to see people and show himself, because he has no opportunity to make any decisions.

    And the doll never makes decisions - decisions are made by the one who pulls his strings. All supposedly unfinished presidents 404 have a screen of the West and nothing more. The not-so-decisive stance of the leadership of Russia in 2016 gave Mariupol to these clowns and, accordingly, additional chances for impossible overthinking.
  19. Karabin
    Karabin 15 December 2019 17: 39
    +1
    All this Santa Barbara connected with the Minsk Agreements might seem like a fun undertaking,
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 16 December 2019 15: 18
      -2
      we will not choose such a ruler !!!!
  21. Good_Anonymous
    Good_Anonymous 19 December 2019 23: 12
    +1
    What is Lao PDR?
  22. Basarev
    Basarev 20 December 2019 17: 47
    0
    The truth is that it is fundamentally impossible to come to an agreement here. Only the final military victory of one of the parties will put an end to shelling and casualties.