Military Review

Pictures tell. "The guard"

93

The painting “Dice game”, which very accurately depicts the appearance of equestrian warriors of the mid-XNUMXth century. Located in the Penza Art Gallery. K.A. Savitsky


One day, Bosch brought me to a tavern.
The thick candle in it was barely flickering.
Throaty walked executioners in her,
Shameless boasting craft.
Bosch winked at me: “We came, they say,
Do not hit the glass, do not squeeze the maid
And on a primed board on a plane
Settle everyone in salting or scrap. ”

He sat in the corner, squinted and began:
He flattened his nose, his ears increased,
He treated everyone and twisted
Their baseness is forever marked.
And the feast in the tavern was in full swing.
Bastards, laughing and joking,
They did not know what promised them shame and grief
This painting of the Last Judgment.
Pavel Antokolsky. Jerome Bosch


Military affairs at the turn of the eras. There is a beautiful old building with a turret in Penza. In the past it was the building of the Peasant Land Bank, then some Soviet institutions, but in the end it housed an art gallery named after K. A. Savitsky, a famous artist, our fellow countryman. This building was just perfect for an art gallery, and note that the selection of paintings in it is very interesting and worthy. I was taken to it from childhood, then I drove my students into it myself and always glanced at a small canvas in the hall of Western European painting: “Game” (there are variants of the name, for example, one of them “Knights for a game of dice”) Swebach Jean Francois Joseph (pseudonym De Fontaine).


We have given this name on the signature ...

The fact is that as a child I was most attracted to battle canvases, and with them in our gallery I’m not very happy, so I admired the warriors depicted on it on the principle of a black sheep’s wool. Later I was attracted to it by the realism of the image. After all, the canvas is small in size, but how accurately it shows the smallest details of the costumes. In fact, it can be used quite well as an illustration for an article, well, say, about the same Reiters or Cuirassiers.


The building of the art gallery cannot but draw attention to its architecture.

Although there is one “but”. The author himself lived a little later than the era for which the costumes he painted were typical. That is, he worked according to some artistic sources, and did not write from life. But there are examples of material culture - clothes and armor, which, firstly, confirm everything that he painted, and secondly, after all, there were other artists who painted their paintings in the XNUMXth century and he could well redraw something them.


Swebach Jacques Francois Joseph "Knights playing dice." I wonder why the players are called “knights”? Just because there’s an iron helmet on one of their heads?

And here we come close to one very interesting topic. So picturesque canvases can serve historical sources? And the answer will be this: some canvases, others not. And others can only partially. For example, the painting “Surrender of Delirium” or “Spears” (the second name is due to the fact that there are really a lot of copies on the canvas!) Diego Velazquez, painted by him in 1634-1635, may well. Since it depicts the event that took place on June 5, 1625, when the governor of the Dutch city of Breda, Justin Nassau, handed over the keys to it to the commander-in-chief of the Spanish army Ambrosio Spinole. That is, from the moment of the event to the moment of its reflection on the canvas only ten years have passed and during this time neither fashion nor military art have changed.

Pictures tell. "The guard"

“Surrender of Delirium”, a painting by Diego Velazquez. (Prado Museum, Madrid)

And here is the picture “Morning on the Kulikovo Field” A.P. Bubnova - no. And not even because he was not a contemporary of this event. Just an armed rabble depicted on it could not have become the force that defeated the army of Mamaia. And if the prince himself fought with the "filthy", being dressed in the armor of an ordinary combatant (as there are written reports), then ... does it need to be said that soldiers in torn chain mail and without helmets could not stand in the front rows at all, even if any in our army and were present. It was just that there was such a political trend, reflected, for example, in the film “Alexander Nevsky” (and even in the film “Treasure Island”, also in 1938), where it was shown how bastard muzhiks beat German knight dogs with a dragonfly.

Also very peculiar is the painting by I. S. Glazunov “The Battle on the Maiden Field”. To armor and arms There are no complaints, but the tactics of the then battle depicted by him on the canvas can cause nothing but laughter.

Now in VO there is a series of articles about warriors and armor of military affairs at the turn of the era, so it makes sense to get acquainted with at least some of the paintings that can serve us as sources of information on this topic. One of these artists was David Teniers the Younger (1610 - 1690), who painted the painting “The Sentry” in 1642, in which he was talentedly merged into a military still life, genre scene, landscape with figures. In the foreground we see just a luxurious still life of knightly armor, weapons, flags, a drum, a trumpet, and timpani. Well, the panoramic landscape shows us the scene of a siege of a fortress standing on the seashore.


"The Watch". David Teniers the Younger, 1642 (State Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg)

Further, we see that the scene of the action is a guardroom, possibly a temporary barracks room. In it are two cavalry officers girded with scarves, and a cavalry soldier who puts on his over the knee boots to step in, as well as several foot soldiers. Clothing does not represent their interest, which cannot be said about the weapons depicted here. For example, this is a sword with a trihedral blade, expanding to the hilt. What's so unusual? But the fact is that for a long time it was believed that such blades spread only in the last quarter of the XNUMXth century. The fact is that the Italian fencing school dominated in Europe for a long time. The main desk of this school was the front. At the same time, fencers held the sword in their right hand, and in their left - a fending dagger.


Pistol set mid-1610th century Pistols made and decorated by Italian Giovanni Antonio Gavaccio, one of the best castle manufacturers in Brescia. His work was so highly praised that the Venetian government donated sets of firearms from Gavaccio to King Louis XIII (1643–47,110) and King Persia. The trunks are made by Lazarino Cominazzo. Length: 12,6 cm. Caliber 1003 mm; Weight XNUMX g. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

Then it was replaced by a French school, considered more progressive. Its founders changed the swordsman’s stance and turned him to the opponent sideways, thereby reducing the body area that his opponent could hit. The dagger in his left hand was no longer needed. But now it was necessary to strongly strengthen the sword blade at the hilt, which led to the fact that the blades at the swords became trihedral. And just then, the Teniers painting made it possible to prove that the first samples of such swords began to be used about thirty years earlier than was commonly believed before it was studied.


Three Quarter Armor, approx. 1645, that is, almost "contemporaries" of armor on the canvas and, by the way, are very similar to them. Place of manufacture: Brescia. Weight: 26.85 kg without a helmet. Helmet - 4300 (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

Photographed accurately Teniers and firearms. For example, in his “still life” you can see a pistol and a musket (we don’t see a second pistol of the same type, which was supposed to be part of the dragoon’s headset, it’s quite possible that they simply filled up with weapons. Instead, another small pistol is painted. So he showed, for example, that the lock regiments on them are closed, and the triggers are on a safety platoon, as is required when storing a loaded weapon of this system.


Another wheeled horseman pistol, this time Swiss. OK. 1650 g. Length: 54.9 cm. Barrel length: 34.6 cm. Caliber 11.4 mm. Weight 1247.4 g. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

And he did not even forget about such a detail as a screwdriver, which is depicted tied to a trigger bracket by a gun and which was used to clamp pyrite in a trigger. And next to the wheeled gun lies the key to it - the repair shop necessary to tighten the wheel spring. So on the musket, the lock is no longer wheel-mounted, but a percussion with an S-shaped serpentine in the back of the keypad. Such a castle was called French due to the fact that its royal inventor is the French royal artist and gunsmith Maren le Bourgeois (1550 - 1634).


One of the best-preserved French armor dating from the reign of Henry IV (1589–1610) and, possibly, that belonged to him. A good example of how the French nobility loved fully gilded armor. It retains the original lining on the helmet made of yellow silk and red leather straps sewn with metal thread. Chaffron (protection of the horse’s head) is also in the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art (art. No. 27.177.2, that is, it was obviously a rider set), and the saddle is in the Museum of Art in Paris. Despite its rich finish, this “armor” was intended for use in battle. Moreover, this “three-quarters” armor was made just at that time, when the cavalry in heavy armor abandoned the spear in favor of a pair of pistols, which were stored in holsters in the front of the saddle. The penetrative power of the new weapon led to an increase in the weight of such armor and the gradual abandonment of elements such as protection of the lower legs. Made around 1600 in France. Height 144,8 cm; weight 34,98 kg. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

And if in 1642 a musket with such a castle ended up in some godforsaken guardhouse in the arsenal of an ordinary dragoon, then this can only be said about one thing, namely, by that time it was shock locks in muskets that were very widespread, and displaced wick locks. But in the cavalry, castles continued to be used as before!


Arme helmet with a forerunner fixed by a strap. Attention is drawn to such an inconspicuous detail as “cord finishing”, that is, a twisted edge of a gorget is made on it. It is known that arme with gorge, which was very common in the “Maximilian armor” of the beginning of the 1590th century, remained until the next century - a good example of the technical perfection of such decoration of the edges of various parts of the armor. The crest on the helmet gradually increased in size, but from XNUMX began to gradually decrease.

In addition, we see among the heap of weapons standing black cuirassier armor and a lying polished cuirass, as well as a bourguignot helmet, plate gloves, spurs, and a mint - which has become a popular light cavalry weapon, and a saber that looks like a Polish shipbuilder! That is, riders of light cavalry should also have been in this guard, because the cuirassiers did not use sabers and did not wear minting!


The armor is decorated with stunning engraving, combined with gilding of a floral ornament engraved on their surface!

That’s how much, it turns out, the study of one single picture can provide if it is written competently and if the researchers carefully understand its details!

To be continued ...
Author:
93 comments
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  1. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 22 December 2019 06: 20
    +3
    Respectfully any authors - researchers of the past. It is interesting how they, from small household fragments, add up a picture of a complete historical mosaic ...
    good
    By the way, how do you like these conclusions made by the author of the video? (from 7:06)
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 07: 37
      +7
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, after reading your article I have only one word in the language “amazing”!

      Now a little fabrication!
      Some are born with talent, others learn to write their thoughts for a long time. And not anyhow, but so that others like it. In essence, the nature of the work involves “making the incredible out of the obvious”. Perhaps this is journalism.
      Others have been looking for new things all their lives, if summarized - this is science!
      Sometimes a person possesses (by nature or acquired) two similar competencies, then reading his work is a pleasure! Thanks again, and don’t particularly take it as a compliment, but only as “a purely tricky pearl motivating you to the next morning article, like the above”!
      Once again, Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Talgarets
      Talgarets 22 December 2019 08: 27
      +7
      This is about the absence of snow on engravings. For example, here.




      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 22 December 2019 08: 37
        0
        Quote: Talgarets
        This is about the absence of snow on engravings. For example, here.

        I hope you listened to the announcer’s words about artists who painted before the 17th century? He strongly recommends paying attention to the dates of the artists' birth (i.e., born 18 ** - XNUMX **)
        I did not look for the authors of the works you submitted, there is no time to shovel. Give a reference to authorship.
        hi
        1. Talgarets
          Talgarets 22 December 2019 08: 46
          +6
          The first picture of Lucas van Falkenborch 16 centuries he has a lot in common.
          The second "Bolshoi (Stone) Theater in St. Petersburg in 1790.
          Fragment of the painting by I. G. Mayr ".
          The rest honestly, I did not look at the authors, I just stuck it with Yandex. But on the 3rd engraving, the costumes are clearly 16th century
          I can offer an engraving of Herberstein of the 16th century
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 22 December 2019 19: 40
            +2
            Dear Talgarets, thanks for the illustrations, when I saw her I immediately thought, "Basilio's cat and Alice the fox". Remember the Soviet film "Buratino"?
    4. Talgarets
      Talgarets 22 December 2019 08: 32
      +9
      The goal of the "Kramola" channel, as well as almost any channel on youtube, is to earn money on the number of views, therefore the authors of the videos consciously lying to make the material sensational. I am much more saddened by those who believe what was said, and there are many of them. Checking the submitted information takes 5-7 minutes, but no one does it!
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 22 December 2019 09: 06
        +1
        I appreciated. From now on I will be less gullible ...
        hi
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 22 December 2019 19: 48
        +3
        Alas, now they prefer not to think, but to swallow everything
      3. Sergei71
        Sergei71 23 December 2019 07: 44
        0
        almost any channel on youtube [i] [/ i]
        Not at all, if we consider Delyagin, Zhukov Klim, Isaev, and others as authors.
        1. Talgarets
          Talgarets 24 December 2019 05: 43
          0
          It seems that we are watching the same channels good
          1. Sergei71
            Sergei71 24 December 2019 16: 50
            +1
            Thank you for sharing the point of view. And Klim Sanych is generally "something". smile
  2. tlauicol
    tlauicol 22 December 2019 07: 10
    +6
    This is the layer you dug! Bottomless! This is how many articles you can write!
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 22 December 2019 07: 12
    +6
    Interesting look. A good picture really tells a lot.

    And long ago I accepted for myself that museum collections can be considered as the peak of the pyramid of human life.
  4. Korsar4
    Korsar4 22 December 2019 07: 21
    +4
    Although there are still more questions than answers. To what extent, for example, does the painting "Ivan the Terrible and His Son Ivan" correspond to realism?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 09: 19
      +8
      Quote: Korsar4
      Although there are still more questions than answers. To what extent, for example, does the painting "Ivan the Terrible and His Son Ivan" correspond to realism?

      Good day!
      Here you touched on a very interesting aspect! After all, any picture, engraving and even a miniature can be created by an eyewitness of events, and maybe centuries later. Much depends on the talent of the artist! For example, Vasnetsov’s picture “Three heroes”? If we ask the layman to describe our epic heroes, we will describe them specifically for this work by Vasnetsov! Moreover, this trend is monitored both in illustrations of books on this topic, and in cinema (including Soviet), and even in the multi-industry !!! But we are well aware that Vasnetsov did not see Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitich and Alyosha Popovich!
      So in the example you cited. With the "light hand" of a talented artist, we got the image of "Tsar of All Russia, small and white ...."! IIIii !!!
      In the history textbooks, fiction, monuments, films and cartoons, the procession “Ivan the Terrible” began! I’m afraid even the latest research on the restoration of a person’s face through a skull will not destroy that layer of our formed vision of the tsar, presented to us by Vasnetsov!
      Well, the last, unfortunately, this phenomenon is completely denied by the “Falkhistorics”, including on our website! It is especially touching when miniatures of the 17-18 centuries with "slogans" appear, but where are the Tatar-Mongols? And sometimes even guns (of a conventionally modern type) are not embarrassed at such works, but on the contrary they begin to share with us - Russia is the birthplace of elephants !!!
      Well, somewhere like that! Regards, Vlad!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 22 December 2019 09: 34
        +4
        Only, nevertheless, in this case, Repin.

        I have this picture pops up first. And it’s hard to imagine being replaced by anything.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 10: 05
          +6
          recourse Koshak missed!
          Thanks for editing !!! request
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 22 December 2019 19: 59
        +3
        Namesake, do you know that Vasnetsov, in the guise of Or Muromets, portrayed Emperor Alexander III? He gave his "Muromets" the features of Alexander 3
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 22 December 2019 22: 28
        +1
        Vlad, hello and best wishes!

        "Ivan Vasilich the Terrible, he was the name of the rivers,
        For being a serious, respectable person! "
        (S. Averchenko New Satyricon)

        It seems to have already happened, but as soon as I see "Ivan the Terrible", these immortal lines immediately pop up. smile
    2. Talgarets
      Talgarets 22 December 2019 09: 39
      +5
      Well, since Repin was not a witness to the event, he could, so to speak, show imagination
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 22 December 2019 09: 45
        +4
        Could. As far as I understand, Alexander III did not like the picture very much.

        But this does not mean that the picture of a contemporary will be necessarily closer to the truth.
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 22 December 2019 20: 05
        +4
        Comrades, regarding the picture of Repin, I met information that Ivan the Terrible did not kill his son. No confirmations for this version.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 20: 34
          +2
          Quote: vladcub
          Comrades, regarding the picture of Repin, I met information that Ivan the Terrible did not kill his son. No confirmations for this version.

          Good evening Glory! Not everything is so simple in the “Kingdom of Denmark”, well, in Mother Russia. There is a serious question of the legitimacy of the throne of heritage. I'm afraid we will not get an answer to it, in particular, the tsar’s guilt in the death of his only capable son !!! There is no direct evidence, but there are indirect ones, rumors, speculation and idle talk! Here, depending on what criteria to measure. If at the level of the modern legal system, then no! If you rely on contemporaries of Ivan, then there is more chance that all the same yes than not!
          Well, somewhere like that!
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 22 December 2019 21: 11
            +3
            Kotya, you seem to be a lawyer? A real lawyer does not accept speculation and rumors.
            I can say with equal success that your surname Kuklachev: You do not once remember that you are from cats (I looked at your old comments).
            Do not be offended in earnest
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 December 2019 04: 21
              +1
              A little joke!
              Each soul has its own totemic animal - these are not my words, but the statement of my friend!
              From paganism - this is from childhood, I don’t know apparently by the nature of people are divided into dog lovers and cat-mates. I belong to the latter! And then the game, words and images, all the more so here in the VO of such "mustachioed and striped" pond-pond! Although it’s possible, it’s psychiatry.
              According to lawyers, to be honest, I was too lazy to upload versions of "the murder of his son by Ivan Gorozny." There are not a few of them, but I am inclined to say that there were “bloody boys”!
              The trouble is, there is no direct evidence or I don’t know about them! So what is the point of discussing this topic, but indirect? Sher-gel-fa look for a woman ....
              Yours!
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 22 December 2019 08: 17
    +5
    Wonderful article! Perfectly correlates with my personal perception of Brueghel's work, for example.
  6. Flooding
    Flooding 22 December 2019 08: 39
    +4
    The guardhouse is far from exemplary.
    Far from penny armor and weapons piled on an earthen floor?
    It’s hard to imagine such a thing.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 09: 24
      +7
      Quote: Flood
      The guardhouse is far from exemplary.
      Far from penny armor and weapons piled on an earthen floor?
      It’s hard to imagine such a thing.

      No, this is just an absolute confirmation that this is our guard! I confirm Ento as a person who has repeatedly and repeatedly checked such “guards”!
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 22 December 2019 09: 46
        +5
        I greet you, Vlad! Let me ask you a curiosity: and what were your assessments of these * sentries *? request
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 10: 07
          +7
          I'm afraid if I post something on the branch, they will fire me on Monday !!!
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 22 December 2019 10: 12
            +5
            God! Is everything really so bad?!?! As in the picture of Teniers? A light mess in the guardroom? laughing
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 11: 13
              +3
              Guys, can I just keep silent!
              It all depends on the "owner" and no matter whether it is a tavern or a CWC!
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 22 December 2019 11: 13
              +4
              Well, I don’t know how it is now, but in the years of stormy youth I spent the night in the "monkey house" many times. So in the 90s the police departments looked like the plot of the picture laughing
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 22 December 2019 12: 10
                +3
                "I had to, I had to be in your charitable institution, you know, I didn't like it. Don't wait any longer ...". laughing Hi Anton! And what can change there? Shape? Yes new, computers? Yes, almost everywhere. Attitude to people? But this is different. However, as everywhere.
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 22 December 2019 10: 12
        +4
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        No, this is just an absolute confirmation that this is our guard! I confirm Ento as a person who has repeatedly and repeatedly checked such “guards”!

        Oh times! Oh manners! (with)
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 22 December 2019 10: 22
          +4
          "These are our husbands, these are our wives" (c).
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 22 December 2019 22: 23
      +3
      From my own experience, I know that you value every minute of sleep in a guard, and if you’re not at the other post, then, putting the machine in the pyramid, you simply dump everything else on the floor near the trestle bed and immediately fall asleep. soldier

      But here, I think, the point is different, this is still a work of art and the author, obviously, decided to simply "fill" the left part of the canvas as much as possible compositionally, making the right one as light as possible. It is unlikely that this is a matter of trophies, or a careless attitude towards "state property". smile
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 22 December 2019 09: 18
    +3
    Without touching on the merits and demerits of the article, I cannot pass by these lines of the author:
    And here is the picture “Morning on the Kulikovo Field” A.P. Bubnova - no. And not even because he was not a contemporary of this event. Just an armed rabble depicted on it could not have become the force that defeated the army of Mamaia comparing them with these lines:Since it depicts the event that took place on June 5, 1625, when the governor of the Dutch city of Breda, Justin Nassau, handed over the keys to it to the commander-in-chief of the Spanish army Ambrosio Spinole there is, to put it mildly, disregard for the Russian people. But in Velasquez's picture "rabble" is not much better than in Bubnov's picture! Not a single helmet is visible on their heads, there is no question of some kind of uniform. The author of the article, like many of the artists he admires, overlooks the very noticeable weight of the helmet. Designating the painting "Morning on the Kulikovo Field" as an anti-example, the author of the article for some reason did not bring his image.
    Well, a fragment of the description of the picture: Very often in historical paintings one feels the artist’s fascination with reproducing the true decor, clothes, accessories. Silk, velvet, gold, rich ornamentation - all this often without proper selection, simply because it is beautifully transferred to the picture and as a result obscures the meaning of the event. Theatricality appears in the picture - everything seems to be correct, historically reliable, but there is no true truth.
    http://www.rodon.org/art-080815120620
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri 22 December 2019 12: 25
      +5
      Quote: Vladimir_2U

      Without touching on the merits and demerits of the article, I cannot pass by these lines of the author:
      And here is the picture “Morning on the Kulikovo Field” A.P. Bubnova - no. And not even because he was not a contemporary of this event. Just an armed rabble depicted on it could not have become the force that defeated Mamaia’s army by comparing them with these lines: Because it depicts an event that took place on June 5, 1625, when the governor of the Dutch city of Breda, Justin Nassau, transferred the keys to it to the Spanish commander in chief Army Ambrosio Spinole felt, to put it mildly, neglect of the Russian people.

      I do not understand what the neglect is. Peshtsev in the army of Dmitry Ivanovich, most likely, were not at all. Therefore, the "partisans", from the painting by A.P. Bunov, could not have any influence on the victory of the Don massacre, due to their absence. But the "rabble", from the picture of Velazquez, really was under Delirium.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 December 2019 04: 05
        -1
        Quote: HanTengri
        I don’t understand what is neglect here
        the author of the article applies the word "rabble" only and exclusively to the Russian army. Despite the fact that the pictures illustrating the article depicts exactly the rabble, equipped with a lot of things.
        Quote: HanTengri
        Just an armed rabble depicted on it could not become that force
        The author of the article did not show Bubnov's painting on purpose, because both the cavalry and the palisade of spears in the background are visible on it, so, apart from the absence of firearms, the Russian army depicted in the picture is armed quite adequately. It just did not fit the concept of the "Russian rabble", which the author "casually" put forward, so the picture and "did not find" a place in the article.
        Quote: HanTengri
        Most likely, there were no peshtsov in the army of Dmitry Ivanovich.

        Quote: HanTengri
        Therefore, the "partisans", from the painting by A.P. Bunov, could not have any influence on the victory of the Don massacre, due to the lack of their presence
        There weren’t, just a couple of three historical hypotheses, quite marginal, by the way.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 23 December 2019 11: 20
      +2
      Not a single helmet is visible on the heads, there is no talk about any uniform
      Why do they need helmets if one army (more precisely, a garrison) surrenders to another?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 December 2019 11: 32
        -2
        Quote: sivuch
        Why do they need helmets if one army (more precisely, a garrison) surrenders to another?
        A uniform is also not needed? By the way, this shows the unhistorical nature of Velazquez's picture, fashion is fashion, but the personal guard of the person accepting the surrender should be "in the parade." in armor. And the absence of armor and, accordingly, a helmet was very often set as one of the conditions for surrender.
        1. sivuch
          sivuch 23 December 2019 11: 51
          +1
          What kind of uniform? She is still 50 years old. It is only in the films about d'Artagnan that all the musketeers are in beautiful blue Cossacks, and the guardsmen of the evil cardinal are in something red and black.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 23 December 2019 11: 54
            -2
            Have you read the article? The author’s Russian army is rabble, and the rest are apparently blaharod knights.
            1. Nitochkin
              Nitochkin 24 December 2019 06: 37
              -2
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Have you read the article? The author’s Russian army is rabble, and the rest are apparently blaharod knights.

              I believed that Shpakovsky was once strongly "offended" under the Soviet "regime". And he takes revenge for his "offense" by virtue of his current capabilities. But these attacks on Russian, not even Soviet, artists and their accusation of unhistoricality (lies) reveal a new facet of the author - Russophobia. Shpakovsky, for whom do you "work"?
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 24 December 2019 08: 40
                -2
                The anti-Soviet is always Russophobe, is the news for you? And they seem to dress up, but still slips if not contempt, then something like that.
  8. Talgarets
    Talgarets 22 December 2019 09: 30
    +3
    and in the foreground we see just a luxurious still life of knightly armor, weapons, flags, drum, trumpet, and timpani

    Most likely these are trophies, I believe the soldiers did not begin to pile up their property in a heap.
  9. Avior
    Avior 22 December 2019 10: 29
    +6
    When I looked at the premises of Versailles, I was surprised by the tastelessness, impracticality and carelessness of creating a plan of the premises of part of the king himself in the chambers of Versailles, which was originally built as a dweller for the king
    The apotheosis of impracticality is the king's bedroom 'in which it is a walk-through bed, with an uncomfortable neither in height nor in size king's bed, separated by a small balconette from the passage of the room, not very large for a bedroom.
    But the next room in the row - the premises of the palace guard 'immediately put everything in its place
    A wide room, in which you just see through the centuries the guard on duty near the chambers of the corral, is enough to shout, and the guard will be in a couple of seconds, the king will not have time to kill, if there is some kind of conspiracy
    1. Liam
      Liam 22 December 2019 11: 01
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      The apotheosis of impracticality is the king's bedroom '

      It is impractical for a modern layman who is not familiar with the court ceremonies of that era. The king’s bedroom in those years is a public place. Going to sleep and awakening the king is a whole ceremony with the participation of the court. Being admitted to these ceremonies is the highest privilege and a sign of the king’s mercy. one of the highest ranking features in the courtyard
      1. Avior
        Avior 22 December 2019 11: 06
        +3
        I know all this, I heard stories about it more than once and saw it saved in a variety of palaces both in Russia and in Europe
        And it was always striking that it was completely impractical for the main function, to sleep.
        In Versailles, which was specially built for the king, it just caught my eye.
        But here the guardhouse turned out to be very correct, practical and to the place
        hi
        1. Liam
          Liam 22 December 2019 11: 12
          +3
          The main function of the royal bedroom is by no means Sleeping. The process of conception of heirs (well, or attempts) - by the way, also in the presence of authorized courtiers was completed.
          1. Avior
            Avior 22 December 2019 11: 32
            +4
            Private bed was clearly single
            Small, uncomfortable, tall, clearly single
            It was also necessary to sleep

            True, it was in Versailles that it was separated by such a low fence as on the balcony.
            But he built for himself, how could it be so clumsy to set up?

            Joint also happens
            In the Crimea, in Massandrovskrm Palace, between the offices of the tsar and the tsarina, a common bedchamber for a joint rest :) in the country
            But this is a later era
            1. Liam
              Liam 22 December 2019 11: 41
              +2
              For real Sleeping, the king had more secluded bedrooms. And the staff of mistresses and favorites).
          2. Alf
            Alf 22 December 2019 22: 08
            +2
            Quote: Liam
            The process of conception of heirs (well, or attempts) - by the way, also in the presence of authorized courtiers took place.

            However, perverts!
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 11: 26
        +7
        Especially with Louis 14 lol In the era of his reign, countesses in duels were cut for the right to take out his chamber pot !!! laughing
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 22 December 2019 12: 12
          +5
          Well, if the counts were doing this, then it’s even scary to think about what was part of the duties of the dukes. Here are perverts! fellow
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 12: 29
            +5
            Quote: Phil77
            Well, if the counts were doing this, then it’s even scary to think about what was part of the duties of the dukes. Here are perverts! fellow

            Slippers served! The Sun King knew how to bend his neighbors! But what a “break of stamps" in comparison with the era of the reign of his father and grandfather !!! True, the descendants pumped up and brought France to the first republic !!!
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 22 December 2019 20: 54
              +4
              Namesake, put them in a corner! And if you think about it, the "sun king" was not much different from Louis16. Brainly, but Louis 14 was a lodar and a badger, and Louis 16 is credited with the invention of the so-called "French" padlock. Agree that a white-handed woman cannot make a lock
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 21: 08
                +3
                The glory here is the main thing in the other, you can be a “teapot”, but if you have the burden of power on you, then you do not have time for “overhead locks”! More precisely, you can distinguish it for yourself, but at least your country should flourish and there should not be time left for those who have submitted revolutions!
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 23 December 2019 09: 57
                  +2
                  Namesake, I don’t argue about the last statement.
                  That's just in prosperous states there are different disasters
  10. Engineer
    Engineer 22 December 2019 11: 33
    +5
    The article is pleasant, just pleasant. This is when from time to time you reflect on the historicism of art paintings and then bang an article in the subject.

    Then it was replaced by a French school, considered more progressive. Its founders changed the swordsman’s stance and turned him to the opponent sideways, thereby reducing the body area that his opponent could hit.

    This moment was cut. The French school of fencing was not more progressive in terms of fighting qualities. You can compare the episode in the "duel of the minions" in 1578
    Kelyus adhered precisely to the nascent French school of fencing and came to the duel without a dagger (or simply forgot). He hoped that his adversary d'Antragues, out of courtly considerations, would also throw away the dagger. But d "Antrag did not render this service to him. The result - a demonstrative reprisal against the enemy with one sword - 19 wounds and the death of Kelyus.
    It seems to me that the transition to a French school is basically a tribute to fashion - there is no need to carry a dagger (whoever saw a dueling dagger understands what kind of "fool" it is). Plus, the front desk is psychologically more aggressive and less comfortable, especially for beginners.
    A few questions to the author
    Will there be a Rembrandt Night Watch parsing?
    Will there be an analysis of the "fantasy" elements of weapons (imitation of antiquity, etc.) often found among the masters of the Renaissance and later?
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 22 December 2019 11: 43
      +5
      I agree, I would like to develop. The author succeeds in reading this topic much better than the analysis of Soviet newspapers.
  11. sergo1914
    sergo1914 22 December 2019 11: 53
    -2
    And here is the picture “Morning on the Kulikovo Field” A.P. Bubnova - no. And not even because he was not a contemporary of this event. Just an armed rabble depicted on it could not have become the force that defeated the army of Mamaia.


    Historical fact. Routed. But the historian of the CPSU, of course, knows better.

    To be continued ...


    Do not. I beg you. Where is the button with which you can turn off Shpakovsky's nonsense?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 December 2019 12: 35
      +6
      Sergei! Vyacheslav Olegovich, raised an interesting layer of hysterical authenticity on art canvases! So here the most important thing is “historical reliability of the image!
      No one disputes the Victories of our ancestors or the talent of the artist! The problem is reliability, but there are doubts about weapons, armor and clothing !!!
      If essentially "epic, but alas, not everything is true"!
      I have the honor!
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 22 December 2019 14: 57
        +7
        A cross between a turbopatriot and a folkhistoric is something catastrophic.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 22 December 2019 20: 57
          +3
          Acutely spotted and true
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri 22 December 2019 14: 06
      +6
      Quote: sergo1914
      Historical fact. Routed. But the historian of the CPSU, of course, knows better.

      Defeated. Only the infantry is out of business. She wasn't there. Especially in the form of the nightmare armed and well-armed "fird" that Bubnov portrayed.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 22 December 2019 14: 59
        -2
        Quote: HanTengri
        Quote: sergo1914
        Historical fact. Routed. But the historian of the CPSU, of course, knows better.

        Defeated. Only the infantry is out of business. She wasn't there. Especially in the form of the nightmare armed and well-armed "fird" that Bubnov portrayed.



        Personally present?
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 22 December 2019 15: 56
          +5
          Quote: sergo1914
          Personally present?

          Did you have to? laughing
          1. sergo1914
            sergo1914 22 December 2019 15: 57
            -3
            Quote: HanTengri
            Quote: sergo1914
            Personally present?

            Did you have to? laughing



            There is no place for doubt!
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 22 December 2019 16: 05
              +5
              No, thank you. For this purpose, there are specially trained archaeologists and military historians.
              1. sergo1914
                sergo1914 22 December 2019 16: 12
                -2
                Quote: HanTengri
                No, thank you. For this purpose, there are specially trained archaeologists and military historians.


                I'm talking about the battle, not about the excavation.
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 22 December 2019 22: 05
                  +1
                  Quote: sergo1914
                  I'm talking about the battle, not about the excavation.

                  And I'm talking about her. If from the 11th century. in Russia, in archeology, the complex of infantry weapons practically disappears, and then appears only in the 16th century. => With a probability of 98%, it can be argued that the Peshtsy, in the Don massacre, at the end of the 14th century. did not have. That is confirmed by excavations at the battle site.
          2. sivuch
            sivuch 23 December 2019 11: 27
            +1
            And then! fasten yourself to a time machine - and forward (in the sense - back), to study. We believe the results in advance.
  12. BAI
    BAI 22 December 2019 13: 21
    +3
    So picturesque canvases can serve as historical sources? And the answer will be this: some canvases, others not. And others can only partially.

    Of course, this answer is obvious. I think that one should trust those canvases on which events are depicted, the author of which was an eyewitness (I mean the author of the picture - the artist). In the extreme case, if the author was a contemporary of the events depicted, i.e. pictures should be painted immediately, in hot pursuit of the event. Otherwise, we will have what we now have in films about the Second World War - "I see it that way."
    In this case, it is necessary to distinguish custom-made paintings. For example, there are enough intravital images of Napoleon, where he is depicted in the form of the Roman emperor. It is unlikely that these paintings can be used to judge the form of the Napoleonic army.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 22 December 2019 13: 56
      +3
      Can a descendant create a historically accurate picture? I think it can.
  13. Engineer
    Engineer 22 December 2019 14: 58
    +4
    Greetings to all history buffs.
    The author reports that for reasons partly beyond his control, he cannot yet answer questions. Rembrandt's "night watch" will be analyzed!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 22 December 2019 15: 14
      +3
      Sorry for ignorance, but what kind of weapon is in the hand of Lieutenant Van Ruutenberg / in a golden camisole / in the picture?
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 22 December 2019 15: 18
        +5
        Officer Esponton (protazan)
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 22 December 2019 15: 21
          +3
          Thank you! I did not know the right word! hi
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 22 December 2019 15: 24
            +4
            Please.
  14. Undecim
    Undecim 22 December 2019 15: 13
    +6
    Yes, Vyacheslav Olegovich, in my humble opinion, the topic is quite drawn to the cycle of articles "Works of art as a historical source".
    According to experts, the historical value of a work of art depends not so much on the skill of the author, but on the accuracy of the questions the historian asks the source.
    Even if we divide the aesthetic and scientific knowledge of painting according to Favorsky, then there is an endless edge of work. After all, there are sometimes completely unique things. There is "Guardhouse" by Teneris the Younger, and there is "Guardroom" by Nicolas Tournier, written twenty years earlier.

    And in each case, the historian can ask the source completely different questions. After all, each source, being part of reality, a social phenomenon, reveals its own segment of this reality.
    Among other things, you can go the other way and talk about how the artists worked to ensure that their works are in line with historical realities.
    Arts Peace Trophies
    You brought in the fatherly canopy.
    And there was the "Last Day of Pompeii"
    For the Russian brush the first day!
    So do not stop. The topic is very interesting.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 22 December 2019 15: 16
      +3
      And for some reason, an unformed idea insistently beats in my head that photography is not a substitute for painting.

      Who knows why, but, for example, they say that "Lilac favors artists, and does not favor photographers." And I agree with that.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 22 December 2019 15: 28
        +5
        Photography painting does not replace.
        Of course not a substitute. Painting and photo art are different types of artistic creation. A painter and a photo artist use different tools. And the result in both cases depends on talent - either a masterpiece or daub.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 22 December 2019 20: 19
      +3
      V. N, you voiced my thoughts: the topic is vast and just about V. Oh. He knows how to tell interestingly about costumes and weapons of different eras
  15. Undecim
    Undecim 22 December 2019 19: 11
    +6
    Then it was replaced by a French school, considered more progressive. Its founders changed the swordsman’s stance and turned him to the opponent sideways, thereby reducing the body area that his opponent could hit. The dagger in his left hand was no longer needed.
    The main and fundamental difference between the French fencing school and the Italian one is the use of the sword only as a piercing weapon. In the Italian school, a sword is used both as a stabbing weapon and as a chopping one.
  16. vladcub
    vladcub 22 December 2019 20: 11
    +3
    Quote: Flood
    The guardhouse is far from exemplary.
    Far from penny armor and weapons piled on an earthen floor?
    It’s hard to imagine such a thing.

    , "An exemplary guardhouse" may be in the capital at the royal palace, but this is temporary, where in the backyards
  17. Astra wild
    Astra wild 22 December 2019 21: 17
    +2
    Quote: Flood
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    No, this is just an absolute confirmation that this is our guard! I confirm Ento as a person who has repeatedly and repeatedly checked such “guards”!

    Oh times! Oh manners! (with)

    It seems that in Latin it sounds: about tempo, about the sea?
  18. Catfish
    Catfish 22 December 2019 22: 32
    +5
    Thank you again, Vyacheslav! hi
    The topic is very rich, so you, having thrown a hook with this bait, do not make the "crucians" wait for a new bait for a long time. good

    Success and look forward to! drinks

    Friends, big greetings to all and my respect! smile
  19. peta locksmith
    peta locksmith 23 December 2019 12: 19
    -1
    Well, nonsense, everything in a bunch
    cyt- if researchers carefully understand its details!
    if he is the author of this article about himself, then he has megalomania
  20. Looking for
    Looking for 23 December 2019 16: 56
    -1
    Bullshit and heresy. A complete fraud. The author with serious looks proves that the century-old armor depicted by the artist, glowing among different rubbish. Correspond to the period depicted in the picture.
  21. Looking for
    Looking for 23 December 2019 17: 03
    -1
    Quote: sivuch
    It is only in the films about d'Artagnan that all the musketeers wear beautiful blue Cossacks

    In the eighteenth century, Cossack in France was called a women's oversized sweater with a wide Basque, which belonged to negligee (home clothes; some clarifications say that this is a short European clothing of the XVIII-XIX centuries with a wide back [1]) [2] [3].

    In the 3th century, the Cossack was a fitted jacket for walking and making visits [1] or a coat with wide sleeves and flounces at the hem [XNUMX]. What did I hear? I don’t know. Where is it? Or was it like a word.