Military Review

Fifth generation fighters for the PLA: why China does not consider the Su-57

61

In the spring of 2017, the air forces of the People's Liberation Army of China officially announced the adoption of the latest Chengdu J-20 fighter. As a result, the PRC became the second country in the world to adopt a fifth-generation fighter. To date, the serial production of such equipment has been mastered and work continues on the second model of the last generation. Consider the success of China in more detail.


First and only


The first and so far the only 5 generation fighter in service with the PLA Air Force is the J-20 developed by Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC). Unfortunately, according to Chinese tradition, most of the information on the progress of development, testing, etc. classified. However, even without this, an approximate picture can be made.

The development of a new generation fighter began in the late nineties and was conducted on a competitive basis. In 2008, CAC won the competition and began the full development of a new aircraft. Soon, the Air Force announced their plans. The first flight of the future J-20 was planned for the 2010-11, and by the 2019 they were going to put it into service.

The first flight of the experimental J-20 took place in the spring of 2011. Over the next few years, tests of experimental equipment were carried out - at least 8 prototype aircraft. Since a certain time, J-20 has been regularly shown at public events.

Not later than the end of 2015, the CAC began mass production of new aircraft, so far at a slow pace. In March 2017, they announced the acceptance of the J-20 into service. A few months later, the media reported on the imminent start of full-scale serial production. At the beginning of 2018, the first units fully equipped with J-20 aircraft began their service.


According to available information, at least 28-30 Chengdu J-20 fighters have been built to date, including several prototypes. Deliveries of equipment to the troops are being carried out, but in view of its small quantity, it has so far been possible to rearm literally a couple of parts. It is expected that further serial construction will allow to continue the re-equipment of the Air Force and lead to an increase in their combat effectiveness.

Future second


While development work continues on the promising Shenyang FC-31 fighter, designed to complement the existing J-20 in the future. According to various estimates, this machine can already be prepared for the series and will go to the troops in the very near future.

The existence of the second project of the 5 generation fighter for the PLA Air Force became known back in 2011, when an interesting model appeared at one of the exhibitions. The following year, several interesting photographs showing the new aircraft became public. Later it became known that at the end of October such a machine made its first flight.

Later it became known that the project was developed by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) in the interests of its own air forces and third countries. The official name of the aircraft is FC-31; J-31 index is also used. It was developed as a lightweight and simplified addition to the more sophisticated J-20. At the same time, despite all the limitations and differences, the FC-31 must comply with the requirements for the 5 generation.

Since 2012, at least two Shenyang FC-31 prototypes have undergone flight tests. About a year ago, it became known that the project is now being carried out under the supervision of the PLA Air Force and Navy. For the latter, a specialized deck modification can be created. However, later these plans were abandoned.


Tests and refinements are not yet completed, and the timing of their completion remains unclear. It was repeatedly mentioned earlier that the FC-31 will go into production and enter the army at the end of the current decade or later. 2020 is approaching, but no News on the topic of the series or adoption has not yet been received. Perhaps the plane is not yet ready for service. However, it is possible that the first production vehicles have already gone to the Air Force, but this fact is still being hidden for reasons of secrecy.

Foreign assistance


China has two own fighter projects of the last 5 generation, which provides it with some independence in matters of modernization of the Air Force. Such independence, among other things, is manifested in the absence of open interest in foreign projects. At the same time, official Beijing buys fighters of previous generations.

At the moment, the purchase of imported 5 generation fighters can be considered one of the options for further developments - unlikely, but possible. Despite the well-known position of the PRC, this issue attracts specialists and the press, including Chinese

There are not too many offers in the 5 generation fighter market yet, and some are not available for China. So, the purchase of American F-35 aircraft is impossible by definition. Other countries trying to create modern technology are not yet ready to export it. The only real option is the Russian Su-57E fighter.

The export version of the Russian Su-57 has been developed over the past few years, and this year it was first shown to the public. It is known that several foreign countries have already shown interest in the Su-57E and are ready to purchase a certain amount of such equipment. The PLA Air Force has not yet responded to the Russian novelty. At the same time, the Chinese press has been discussing for several years the possibility of acquiring an imported aircraft.

5 Generation Future


The PLA’s general plans for last-generation fighters are generally understood. Only the specific numbers, dates and distribution of equipment between the parts of the air force and the sea are unknown. aviation. Available data allow us to imagine what Chinese fighter aircraft will look like in the medium term and in the more distant future.


One of the first photos of Shenyang FC-31, 2012

The main fighter of the 5 generation in the Air Force should be Chengdu J-20. It has already been adopted and is being built in series, but has not yet managed to become massive. In the future, the situation will change. CAC will have to deliver at least a few dozen of these machines. The exact plans are unknown, but it cannot be ruled out that they will try to bring the total fleet of J-20 to hundreds of units, and this will allow decommissioning a lot of obsolete equipment.

In August, it became known that the J-20 will become the basis for the rearmament of naval aviation. The Navy command studied the new equipment and decided that this aircraft surpasses the newer Shenyang FC-31 in all basic characteristics. Thus, plans for the further development of aviation fleet the leading role is given to the larger and more advanced J-20. According to some reports, in the future, on its basis they can create a new carrier-based carrier-based fighter.

The tests of the second generation 5 fighter, the FC-31, are coming to an end. Over the next few years, it is expected to be adopted and the launch of mass production. From the latest statements it follows that he will be received only in the Air Force. The fleet was not interested in such a technique that, among other things, excludes the possibility of creating a deck modification.

At the same time, the circle of customers of the FC-31 is probably not limited to only the PLA Air Force. This machine was created taking into account future sales in the international market. Earlier, there were rumors about negotiations on the sale of fighters to one or another country, but they have not yet received confirmation.

China plans to develop combat aircraft mainly on its own. Two fifth-generation fighter projects have been created, and one has already been brought to service. In such a situation, the purchase of foreign equipment does not look appropriate and necessary. As a result, Beijing does not raise the issue of acquiring Su-57E or other similar aircraft.

Mixed park


Renewal of the PLA fighter aircraft may encounter a characteristic problem. The Air Force and Navy have a lot of outdated equipment, and modern models are of high cost. All of this can seriously impede the desired modernization of the armed forces.


First public demonstration of FC-31, 2014

Currently, there are about 1500-1600 fighters of a number of types and modifications in the land and sea aviation of China, including quite old. Modern models include no more than a third of them. Accordingly, the rest will become hopelessly obsolete in the medium term and will require an urgent replacement.

According to various estimates, the cost of a serial fighter J-20 does not exceed 50 million US dollars. FC-31 did not reach the series, and so for now it costs about 70 millions. Replacing obsolete aircraft requires hundreds of new ones, and building the desired number of J-20 and FC-31 will require enormous expenses. However, obsolete types do not have to be replaced with samples of the latest generation. However, in this case, the construction of a sufficient number of 5 generation fighters will be expensive, complicated and time-consuming.

Thus, despite all the efforts of the aviation industry, the Air Force and Navy will still be forced to use a mixed fleet, including fighters of different generations. In the coming years, the proportion of modern and promising technology will gradually grow, but overall will not remain too high.

However, in this case, China will be able to get all the desired benefits from the development, construction and operation of the 5 generation fighters. Moreover, such benefits will be associated both with the rearmament of their own army, and with earnings on export contracts.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikimedia Commons, Thedrive.com
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  1. Sergey_G_M
    Sergey_G_M 10 December 2019 06: 06
    +9
    In general, well done, they maintain the declared terms, saturate their army with modern weapons.
    True, given the secrecy of the characteristics and the backlog of China in the engine building, it’s not a fact that this is a fifth generation aircraft, they can say that it is the fifth generation, but what’s wrong with the engine, radar, invisibility is a big secret.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 10 December 2019 06: 59
      +4
      The time will come and they will have both an engine and a radar, perhaps even better than others.
      1. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 10 December 2019 07: 08
        0
        Over time, of course they will.
        But even when talking about the Su-57, we constantly emphasize that the engines on them are of the first stage, which no longer pulls for the 5th generation.
        But the Chinese claim that their aircraft is of the 5th generation and "no nails" Although:
        It is noted that the days when all Chinese J-20 fighters (and not only them) will be equipped exclusively with Chinese engines, "just around the corner". At the same time, the PRC reminds that at the moment the mentioned fighters, which were part of the PLA air force, are equipped with engines of Russian production (the AL-31 family).

        https://topwar.ru/164815-v-kitae-zajavili-o-proryve-pri-sozdanii-dvigatelja-dlja-istrebitelja-j-20.html?yrwinfo=1575950491468402-979330935472641655800127-man1-3552
        1. 5-9
          5-9 10 December 2019 07: 56
          +1
          What does the name of the engine have to the 5th generation? And with the 1st stage, cruising overhead and maneuverability are better than the F-22.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. 5-9
              5-9 10 December 2019 12: 20
              +1
              Once again, with the engine of the first stage, the Su-57 meets all the Internet requirements for the 5th generation and has an LTX at the F-22 level, that with the 2nd stage it will be even better or in the TK our military wants a completely beyond - this is absolutely another question.
              1. KrokodilGena
                KrokodilGena 11 December 2019 00: 57
                -2
                Quote: 5-9
                meets all Internet requirements for the 5th generation

                That is, the Su-57 has network-centricity, AFAR, broadband? According to the EPR, there are also a lot of questions, and not only about the sticking out engines, but also in the front hemisphere, not everything is as it should, for example, air intakes. Until the Russian Aerospace Forces order and take into service at least 80 Su-57 units for their needs and operate a couple of years, no one will buy them outside the Russian Federation.
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 11 December 2019 09: 14
                  -2
                  I think the figure of 80 is unlikely to be in the next 20 years.
          2. opus
            opus 10 December 2019 12: 12
            0
            Quote: 5-9
            What does the name of the engine have to the 5th generation?

            all talk about infrared visibility and radar visibility from the back of the hemisphere
            RLS:
            for the case of monostatic location at a wavelength of 3,2 cm, since most modern radars are single-position, operating in the centimeter wavelength range. The configurations implemented on the F-22 and F-35 result in several relatively high but narrow “peaks” on the radar that are difficult to detect and track. The RCS values ​​in the reflection diagram between these "peaks" are rather small (for the angle 0-180, including, also from the "back" side)
            differences from typical F / A-18 // SU-57 (stage 1) // SU-35 at times
            but it seems only "jags"

            ICZ:
            the second largest component of infrared radiation of a jet stream: radiation of combustion products in axisymmetric and plane jets
            You can read:
            a program for calculating the emission of combustion products in axisymmetric and plane jets using the modern Curtis-Godson method (Kirsanov N.V., Kuznetsov A.V., Kuchmenko A.M.).

            The calculation work stimulated the emergence for verification of methods for large-scale modeling of radiation from jets and output devices of various configurations, as well as measuring the optical characteristics of samples of structural elements (Reva E.P., Safonov G.D., Kirsanov N.V., Filipov Yu.N. )

            Quote: 5-9
            And with the 1st stage, cruising overhead is provided

            there is an afterburner
            Weakly believe in Borisov’s statements
            Su-57 she is Mach 2,45, in afterburner flight - Mach 2. This is 2600 km / h.

            if Mach 2 with AL-41F1 ... then why spend money (a bunch) on Product 30?
            Raptor, and even more so the Penguin, and so in "opera"!
            unclear
            1. 5-9
              5-9 10 December 2019 12: 23
              0
              What does the nozzle shape have to do with the engine itself? I didn’t hear that our people want a new engine to saw off a la F-22 nozzles (which reduce thrust by 20% and therefore are better on the Su-57 LTX / at the F-22 level with noticeably more powerful engines) in order to reduce visibility. They want even better LTX than there are.
              1. opus
                opus 10 December 2019 12: 58
                +3
                Quote: 5-9
                What does the nozzle shape have to do with the engine itself?

                and what is "the actual engine?
                Those. You want to convince me that the STRIKED RED does not apply to the engine?

                but...

                Or do you think that you can just "attach" another nozzle?
                But..
                and the men from McDonnell Douglas / Boeing don’t know!
                mutated with the collapse and composites F / A-18E / F Super Hornet, replaced F404-400 with F414, distorted channels, covered them, diamond-shaped screens with perforation, etc., etc.
                but forgot to attach another nozzle? or use a hacksaw to cut sawtooth edges along the nozzle?
                Well, they are stupid Americans, of course

                and B-1B Lancer they did not use the hacksaw and did not replace
                Quote: 5-9
                nozzle shape
                engine?


                They need to point to the jamb
                Quote: 5-9
                I didn’t hear that our people want a new engine to saw off the nozzles a la F-22 (which reduce thrust by 20%

                they want an "engine" a la F-135-PW-100/400, based on the F-119 engine for the F-22

                in the nozzle part for sure

                "20%" ...
                Where are the firewood about 20%?
            2. Looking for
              Looking for 10 December 2019 16: 22
              +1
              I liked the phrase .- "delete before the flight". Is the same. What to write on matches, for ignition.
              1. opus
                opus 10 December 2019 18: 04
                0
                Quote: Seeker
                Liked the phrase .- "delete before flight"

                this is aviation (especially fighting), the method of constant monitoring





                Quote: Seeker
                on matches write-for ignition.

                they are used for other purposes: to dig in the ears, or in childhood we used heads as a propellant for self-propelled guns, or for rocket engines
            3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Civil
      Civil 10 December 2019 07: 22
      +1
      They don’t want to depend on anyone in the defense industry, and they are developing it themselves.
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 December 2019 22: 36
      +1
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      ..... not the fact that this is a fifth generation aircraft

      From what is seen in the photo:

      1. the shape of the hull does not quite match the forms of the fifth generation aircraft
      - the presence of PGO
      - wing edge lines must be parallel
      2. engines located nearby without the possibility of changing the thrust vector,
      that is, the same can be forgotten about super-maneuverability.
      3. our engines, and not of the most modern, and since this aircraft is not small, the engine thrust is unlikely to be enough for supersonic in afterburner mode.
  2. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 10 December 2019 07: 11
    +4
    Well, everything is secret in China ... Maybe it should be? There is no way to understand whether the J-20 flies in cruising supersonic, and in general, what kind of LTX it has. Do they see Sushka’s radars, as the Indians claimed, or do they, like the Israelis, fly with Luneberg lenses, hiding the true parameters of the EPR? Some questions.
    One thing for sure. These planes will not be many hundreds ... In the next ten years. It’s just expensive. Even for China.
  3. Beringovsky
    Beringovsky 10 December 2019 07: 24
    -7
    Why is China not considering the Su-57?
    Because he overtook us in technology and not only in aviation but almost everywhere. And where he has not overtaken, there he will soon overtake, no doubt.
    But we have braces.
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 10 December 2019 07: 38
      +1
      In production capacities and economics, he overtook, and in technology, especially aviation, not yet.
      China wants to load the population with work and develop industry, which is quite normal for such a large country, and they will still consider the Su-57, just a small batch to copy design decisions or we will press that we will not sell engines to them without delivering aircraft.
      But we have braces.
      what is this for? we have a lot of things.
      1. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 10 December 2019 11: 55
        -2
        what is this for?

        And the last time we have the braces are the best.
        we have a lot of things.

        The main thing is staples!
        And we will buy a lot of things abroad, for oil and gas.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 10 December 2019 09: 39
      +3
      Don’t joke like that, otherwise you can die of laughter. For decades, the USSR built weapons in thousandths of series. Slanting another 50 years to gain only the experience that the Soviet military-industrial complex had at the end of the Union. And so it is remembered without advice from the USSR that the slanting brothers forever could only have a wild hunger at home.
      1. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 10 December 2019 12: 03
        +2
        Yes, yes, I guess I wrote from a Chinese tablet, right? Or from the Bogomersky Made in Usa? laughing
        Come on, bays, like spaceships plow the expanses of the Bolshoi Theater. lol
        And so it is remembered without advice from the USSR that the slanting brothers forever could only have a wild hunger at home.

        But now they do just fine without the advice of the great "economist" Pu and his spies. The result is impressive.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 10 December 2019 12: 11
          +1
          Sorry, but I don't think the Chinese tablet made according to American drawings is for serious technology, and the technology is also American. The economic results of the impoverished country, which the Americans gave a job, and which from this became less impoverished, are completely uninteresting to me. There will be no American sales market and they can at least blow up their factories of electric kettles. Unlike the Chinese serving the west, we live with our minds, and we are much better off with energy reserves, China is in trouble with this, in nuclear power it is like walking to the moon, and there is not enough coal left. So they were ready to stand up to Putin for Power of Siberia.

          Actually, I have no particular doubts that the Americans will put it in its place in the current squabble with China, because it is not worth the servant to demand anything from the master.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 10 December 2019 16: 23
              +2
              If for you the technology is only nanometers and an iPhone, then there’s nothing to talk about with you. The world on telephones is not fixated, but you haven't even seen a factory. Technology is energy, steel and weapons. Without this, the state will die. Everything else is bought. What there, the Huawei mastered for me anyway, the Americans set the installation for them, and they do it. Now the Americans took the Huawei by the eggs, and somehow it turned out right away that neither this office nor China represented anything. They ran to comply with all American requirements. For nefig. Shirts and sneakers will not sew themselves, and the phone will not assemble itself. By the way, in general, there is no Chinese software in the world, except for mobile games. And without software, you can buy at least 1 nm.

              What is nuclear waste you don’t even know, by the way, many countries with uninhabited territories willingly take their spent fuel for disposal. And find out what a closed nuclear cycle is. This thing is more serious than iPhones, but no one except RosAtom has it.
            2. Pathos
              Pathos 10 December 2019 17: 16
              0
              Kanechno stupid laughing just one small moment my young friend wink The MiG 25 flew on lamps, semiconductors started to appear and gave 3 swings so that all Israeli aviation chased him with zero result tongue Israel so screamed from the UN rostrum and promised to present both the pilot and the plane the result of zero laughing But Israel was pissing from what, but what if the Russians tied a long loaf to Migar? You tie with your mayfuns, Dudayev also chatted on the satellite mayfun and a suitcase flew in the form of a rocket, and in those days there wasn’t even a 4th stump laughing
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 10 December 2019 16: 13
            +7
            "So they were ready to stand up to Putin for Power of Siberia" ///
            ----
            Actually, it turned out the opposite. The Power of Siberia was signed on Chinese terms. And for the price of gas, and for contractors, and for building materials.
            The Power of Siberia will begin to bring profit to Russia in 10 (according to optimistic estimates) or 30 (according to other estimates) years.
            The Chinese did not give Russia loans after the sanctions of 2014-2015, although they could.
            And forced to sell them the Su-35 and S-400.
            What they wanted for the development of their defense industry.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 10 December 2019 16: 16
              +1
              Well, from Israel, of course, you know better. As for the Su-35, Russia wanted to sell 48 pieces, the Chinese were sensitive to watch, as a result, they had a rather large batch. But you keep believing. Well, gas in Russia, if there is something to spend, is China buying up fuel all over the world, since there is not enough of it. Actually, this makes China just a large sewing factory.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 10 December 2019 16: 25
                +3
                "they got it" ///
                -----
                Again, vice versa. They steamed.
                We bought 24 pieces for familiarization and comparison in the air with their developments. And two sets of spare engines. For mounting on your aircraft.
                China is indeed the largest "factory" in the world. But not sewing. They switched to heavy industry: shipbuilding, cranes, port equipment, construction equipment, cars. And in 10 years they will also capture the civil aviation market, divided between Boeing and Airbus.
          3. Pathos
            Pathos 10 December 2019 17: 03
            +2
            I fully support good But when China begins to pay pensions to its people belay Then the Chinese economy will be covered with a real copper basin laughing drinks
            1. EnGenius
              EnGenius 22 February 2020 14: 50
              0
              Yes it will not be covered. Pensions from them will be received by civil servants or those who provided them for themselves. The rest - on the neck of working children and for minimal social security. A miracle will not happen.
              1. Pathos
                Pathos 23 February 2020 21: 39
                +1
                It’s already a miracle that the old people sue their children under the law in China. Children must feed their old people. Something like that, civil servants may have a pension, but the collective farmers have balalaika, and if you roughly estimate pensioners about 1 / 5th of the country's population in which 1,5 lard residents according to the official census but according to the unofficial ??? Well this is how much dough is needed ????? As there was an article on China’s demography, the law is respected: one family, one child, but in villages full of PEs who follow them there they really have nothing to eat; all Indonesia lives through the import of food; crocodile is not caught coconut does not grow wink
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. EnGenius
      EnGenius 22 February 2020 14: 46
      0
      Firstly, they went by applying stealth coating and making a composite glider and wings - this is a completely different direction, what for them two versions of the airframe? In addition, the coating can be cheapened further, while the fuselage and wings will remain relatively cheap from alloys of aluminum and titanium elements. In addition, this technology will allow you to build a larger series. But there are also drawbacks to the coating - it is hidden corrosion, the inability to access the internal components - all through the hatches, and when upgrading and repairing the airframe, all the stealth coating will have to be cut off and applied again. Secondly, the Chinese borrowed the theory of network-centric warfare and assigned the priority role to a fighter as a rocket carrier. Only if the United States has a division into two classes, does China still focus on long-range combat, and Russia has on gaining air supremacy. And they will probably make FC-31 both in the version for the aircraft carrier for themselves and in the form of a cheap analogue for the Air Force for sale.

      So, due to the limited understanding of your sofa, everything seems to be completely lost.
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 10 December 2019 07: 32
    +4
    Here, in view of the classified and those characteristics, so far one single word pops up in my head:
    DOUBT...
  5. 5-9
    5-9 10 December 2019 07: 54
    +5
    And Jin-20 is the 5th generation because: is there a black, angular and internal compartment?
    What is there with stealth (PGO - it is immediately refused), afterburning supersonic and internal fuel supply? With maneuverability what?
    1. EnGenius
      EnGenius 22 February 2020 14: 55
      0
      With the tanks there, obviously everything should be ok, the maneuverability when supplying engines with UHT will also be sufficient, they can achieve non-afterburning cruising supersonic sound on analogs of the AL-31, but it will obviously be small 1.3-1.4M, which is enough not to "blow off" the stealth coating. That's what they really have with stealth coating - a huge question !!!
  6. Bongo
    Bongo 10 December 2019 08: 11
    +1
    According to available information, at least 28-30 Chengdu J-20 fighters have been built to date, including several prototypes. Deliveries of equipment to the troops are being carried out, but due to its small quantity, so far they have rearm literally a couple of parts.

    I'm sorry, but the number of pre-production and first production J-20s built is not enough even to re-equip one regiment. What "couple of parts" does the respected author mean?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 10 December 2019 16: 30
      +4
      It was in the press that they form the second squadron of J-20.
      In the squadron they have 20-25 aircraft.
      That is, the amount will approach 40-50 by the end of 2020.
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 11 December 2019 10: 11
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        It was in the press that they form the second squadron of J-20.
        In the squadron they have 20-25 aircraft.
        That is, the amount will approach 40-50 by the end of 2020.

        Alexei, where does it come from that the PLA Air Force has a squadron of 20-25 planes? In addition, a squadron is not a "unit", but a "subunit" that is structurally part of a fighter aviation regiment.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 11 December 2019 10: 57
          0
          China is copying the structure of the US Air Force.
          They departed from the Soviet forms.
          The Navy even copies the color of the clothes of different teams on ships
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 11 December 2019 11: 02
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            China is copying the structure of the US Air Force.
            They departed from the Soviet forms.
            The Navy even copies the color of the clothes of different teams on ships

            Alexei, where does the dress form? You want to say that there are 20-25 fighters in the US Air Force combat squadrons? Or would you like to discuss the PLA Air Force structure?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 11 December 2019 11: 45
              0
              I understand your "joke" wink
              The US fighter squadrons have 24 aircraft each.
              In Chinese - 15.
              Then even worse - the Chinese already have almost two J-20 squadrons
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 11 December 2019 11: 52
                +2
                Quote: voyaka uh
                I understand your "joke" wink
                The US fighter squadrons have 24 aircraft each.
                In Chinese - 15.
                Then even worse - the Chinese already have almost two J-20 squadrons

                So what are we arguing about, from the very beginning I wrote:
                Quote: Bongo
                I'm sorry, but the number of pre-production and first production J-20s built is not enough even to re-equip one regiment. What "couple of parts" does the respected author mean?

                A part is a regiment, and a regiment has three squadrons.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 11 December 2019 11: 53
                  0
                  I understood you good . There is no shelf.
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 11 December 2019 11: 56
                    0
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    I understood you good . There is no shelf.

                    Exactly yes And "vapor parts "as the author writes, there are no parts either.
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 10 December 2019 08: 28
    +2
    China is rushing ... and will continue to scream.
    It is useless to give ratings, everything changes very quickly.
  8. Flooding
    Flooding 10 December 2019 08: 30
    0
    And what will the Indian comrades say to this?
    An interesting brew.
    Five or seven years later, when it becomes obvious that China launched 5th generation fighters into a large series (and by then the Chinese will surely do so). When the Su-57 is ready in its final form and confirms all the required characteristics. When it will be clear what is the American line. When some ambitious states and unions (EU, South Korea, Turkey) have already turned their projects into metal, albeit in their original form.
    1. 5-9
      5-9 10 December 2019 12: 25
      0
      Su-35 will be purchased. Or Su-57E, if you have enough money. It depends on how they assess the threat of the "major Chinese 5th generation series" ....
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 11 December 2019 09: 38
        -1
        Smiled about "enough money." The Indians withdrew from the FGFA program and the military immediately started talking about halving the planned purchases of the Su-57 (by 2030).
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 December 2019 21: 26
      +1
      Quote: Flood
      Five or seven years later, when it becomes obvious that China launched 5th generation fighters into a large series (and by then the Chinese will surely do so). When the Su-57 is ready in its final form and confirms all the required characteristics. When it will be clear what is the American line.

      Then it will become clear that the Chengdu J-20 is not the fifth generation, but the fourth.
  9. BAI
    BAI 10 December 2019 08: 50
    -10
    why China is not considering the Su-57

    Because when the Su-57 goes into the real series, China will have the 6th generation.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 December 2019 21: 30
      0
      Quote: BAI
      ..... China will have the 6th generation.

      Why trifle - immediately the 8th.
    2. Pathos
      Pathos 23 February 2020 22: 00
      +1
      Yes, China will not have a full generation of any generation. It is possible to fasten the jet engine to the iron and it will fly. Designers back in the 70s said you can take off and fly without wings, just can’t refuse them, don’t sit down laughing China until the fifth generation for at least 20 years to finish with a file. And this flies a mixture of a bulldog with a rhinoceros. The aerodynamic design is doubtful, there is no engine, the nozzles are without OVT, and in infrared they are not closed. Well, at least they ripped off the raptor. It is impossible to create a school of aircraft industry stupidly redrawing drawings and copying details on a draloscope. What thorny the paths of the designers of the USA and the USSR were, how many projects there were of only one glider, these were swept wings with different angles and variable wing geometry and reverse sweep, and with all this they experimented on the strength bars and the engines constantly dopped this crazy amount of work that they did only 2 countries, other countries do not count, a miserable likeness for aviation.
  10. K-50
    K-50 10 December 2019 08: 52
    +1
    For fighters of the 5th generation, you need an appropriate engine that will help to fulfill one of the requirements for them. China has so far failed to create a decent 4th generation engine and they are purchasing engines from us.
    So some classified characteristics most likely indicate the impossibility of fulfilling the requirements specified for the 5th generation.
  11. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 10 December 2019 09: 02
    +2
    At the same time, official Beijing buys fighters of previous generations. Easy to explain. This allows you to free up capacity for the production of 5-ki, and green candy wrappers in China is comparable to the United States. All the same, China has long been a world workshop.
  12. EvilLion
    EvilLion 10 December 2019 09: 37
    -2
    Because unlike the Su-35, in which there is basically nothing interesting, no one will sell them the Su-57.
  13. knn54
    knn54 10 December 2019 09: 48
    0
    If China buys the Su-57, it will instantly (like with the S-400) make the aircraft more attractive to other potential customers. An increase in the number of orders will allow (including) to further stimulate the Su-57 production program. In this case, the Chinese do not need a competitor.
  14. bars1
    bars1 10 December 2019 10: 11
    +1
    Quote: knn54
    If China buys the Su-57, it will instantly (like with the S-400) make the aircraft more attractive to other potential customers,

    Well, besides this, the Chinese still have some kind of pride. They are also people, not machines that make rational decisions, as Chinese fans imagine them. We worked, worked on the 5th generation (the fourth in their "chronology"), and then bang the Su-57 to buy ...
  15. svp67
    svp67 10 December 2019 11: 54
    +4
    According to available information, at least 28-30 Chengdu J-20 fighters have been built to date, including several prototypes
    And then they recently took them out on an "elephant ride" ...


  16. Carib
    Carib 10 December 2019 12: 03
    +2
    Quote: BAI
    why China is not considering the Su-57

    Because when the Su-57 goes into the real series, China will have the 6th generation.

    By this time, China will have a third attempt to create a 5th generation fighter.
    As far as I know, the Chinese have learned for today for a 5th generation fighter only to do radar with AFAR ... I haven’t seen it live, haven’t touched it with pens, maybe it’s just advertising and Wishlist too ...
  17. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 10 December 2019 12: 47
    0
    That's how much I look at the pictures of this J-20 - at some intuitive level it seems to me that this is a rather ridiculous machine. Of course, experts know better, but it seems to me that he will be inferior in maneuverability and possibly in speed (current competitors of the 5th generation). Most likely, the stealth coating there is really good enough, you need to understand that the Chinese are quite practical guys and they studied the work of our S-300 and S-400 very well, undoubtedly they kept this information "in mind" when calculating their car.
    For a maneuverable fighter, all this looks rather cumbersome - more like a "bomb carrier" relying on its stealth.
  18. Pavel57
    Pavel57 10 December 2019 13: 23
    0
    J-20 is not the most beautiful fighter of the 5th generation.
  19. Maxwrx
    Maxwrx 10 December 2019 20: 10
    0
    Well, let 1000 fighters for 50 million = $ 50 billion, and the amount will stretch for years. The Chinese economy is the first in the world. $ 20 trillion, the military budget is $ 177 billion + hidden costs, estimated at $ 250-300 billion / In general, they will build thousands of fighters if they want and do not tear. Americans f-35 buy more than 3000 pieces, and it is almost 2 times more expensive.
  20. Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 10 December 2019 20: 43
    0
    China does not consider the Su-57 but just do not want to admit that they were taxed, the engines never created