Military Review

In India, the discovery of Chinese J-20 by Su-30MKI fighters is associated with a “thermal lens”

74

Chinese military experts, commenting on the well-known statements of their Indian neighbors that the Su-30MKI radars have repeatedly detected stealth fighter aircraft J-20 PLA, are trying to find an explanation of the situation.


You can understand the Chinese side, because the very fact that the J-20 was detected by the radars of the previous generation fighters causes great reputation damage to Chinese aircraft. Recall that in China they claim that the J-20 fighter belongs to the fifth generation of combat aviation.

In India, meanwhile, it has been reported that the discovery and identification of Chinese J-20 fighters has become possible for several reasons. One of the reasons for Indian specialists is described as follows: in a flight over a mountain range, and it was there (near the border of China and India) that Chinese fighter jets were discovered, the “thermal lensing effect” arose: air streams rising from mountain ranges connected with hot streams air, which was created by the operation of the Chinese J-20 engines.

The emerging “additional thermal anomalies” at certain heights became a factor in determining the availability of aircraft.
How much these statements can in reality explain the reason for the J-20 finding onboard equipment of the Su-30MKI Indian Air Force is an open question. If so, then it turns out that the radar reacted to the same “thermal lens” above the mountain range.

In China, meanwhile, it is noted that the Indian side could simply use information published in the media about combat patrols of the western segment of China's airspace by J-20 fighters as an option for allegations of "allegedly detecting new generation aircraft." That is, first in the Chinese media there are materials about the patrol conducted, and then in the Indian media they write that their pilots on various types of aircraft found J-20 in the air.

All this more closely resembles an episode of information war between neighboring countries, positioning themselves as at least geopolitical competitors.
74 comments
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  1. Dmitry Donskoy
    Dmitry Donskoy 8 December 2019 17: 00
    +7
    Reminiscent of a game of hide and seek. No matter how you hide, anyway, someone will find yes
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 03
      +15
      Hosspadi, they would write that for the safety of flying on airplanes some kind of reflectors were installed, while it was peaceful in the yard. Like children, chesslovo!
      1. GRF
        GRF 8 December 2019 17: 15
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Hosspadi, they would write that for the safety of flying on airplanes some kind of reflectors were installed, while it was peaceful in the yard. Like children, chesslovo!

        so they shoot occasionally
        India with China ...

        it’s better to work on resolving the differences between word and deed ...
      2. Yigal Kaganov
        Yigal Kaganov 27 December 2019 11: 57
        0
        So the Luneberg lens should stand on the stealth
    2. Locksmith
      Locksmith 8 December 2019 18: 17
      +5
      Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
      No matter how you hide, anyway, someone will find

      Yeah, this is from the series - "what are you doing here" (C) wink
    3. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 8 December 2019 18: 40
      +7
      Quote: Dmitry Donskoy
      Reminiscent of a game of hide and seek. No matter how you hide, anyway, someone will find yes

      On any stray invented by a person, another person will find a countering stray. If it were otherwise, then on earth today only the owner of the most effective Pribluda would survive.
      1. Vladimir16
        Vladimir16 9 December 2019 08: 27
        +1
        Quote: Nyrobsky
        If it were otherwise, then on earth today only the owner of the most effective Pribluda would survive.

        And he would die of old age.
        If he had children, then .....
        Cain killed Abel and so on.

        What am I talking about???? winked

        "Pribludy" (weapon) has nothing to do with it. It's about human essence.
      2. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 9 December 2019 17: 25
        +1
        Yes, how many times has already been announced about the creation of the next superweapon, but some time passed and there was an "antidote".
  2. Sergey39
    Sergey39 8 December 2019 17: 03
    +22
    Journalists in China and India as small children. Seriously discuss the possibility of detecting fifth-generation aircraft fourth. As if the fifth generation is a panacea for all ills.
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 8 December 2019 17: 14
      +28
      It seemed ridiculous to me alone that India was making excuses for discovering Chinese invisible planes? recourse
      1. GRF
        GRF 8 December 2019 17: 20
        +1
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        It seemed ridiculous to me alone that India was making excuses for discovering Chinese invisible planes? recourse

        nda, sometimes it’s better to be silent than to say ...
        to challenge a potential adversary to self-improvement is a disservice ...
        1. adept666
          adept666 14 January 2020 14: 16
          0
          nda, sometimes it’s better to be silent than to say ...
          to challenge a potential adversary to self-improvement is a disservice ...

          What is there to cheat, the Chinese have Irbis-E and they know very well how their pepelats glows on the screens of this radar smile She is certainly more powerful than a badger, although not a fact. If the Bars Indians like ours (which is very possible because when the Indians bought the stripped-down version they were unlikely to do for them), and the Irbis-E is stripped down, then the stations are comparable in capabilities.
      2. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 8 December 2019 18: 12
        +3
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        that India makes excuses for discovering Chinese invisible planes?

        Yes, he not only justifies himself, proves that he didn’t want to, it happened by chance ...
        Meanwhile, in India, it is reported that the discovery and identification of Chinese J-20 fighters became possible due to several reasons.

        Those. remove one of the reasons and again "invisible will become invisible"? request
        Paul hi
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 8 December 2019 18: 17
          +3
          Sergei hi
          Quote: Lipchanin
          didn’t want to, it happened by chance ...

          wassat

          Quote: Lipchanin
          remove one of the reasons and again "invisible will become invisible"?


          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin 8 December 2019 18: 30
            +4
            Well, something like this.
            "Suddenly out of nowhere" ... laughing
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 8 December 2019 19: 24
              +3
              Quote: Lipchanin
              Well, something like this.
              "Suddenly out of nowhere" ... laughing

              Sergei. Your quote is about us. And about them:
              I walked in the forest. I saw a dudo. The miracle saw me. If I don’t ..

              Sorry, censorship did not allow further writing. But I think, and so everyone remembers the words ..
              1. Lipchanin
                Lipchanin 8 December 2019 20: 56
                +3
                Quote: sabakina
                But I think, and so everyone remembers the words ..

                laughing
                A few words - well, maybe heels,
                But which ones are combinations!

                "Alexander Ivanov."
                Well, something like this lol .
          2. Astra wild
            Astra wild 8 December 2019 18: 42
            +2
            Presented stills from the films: "The Diamond Hand" and "The Adventures of Electronics"
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 8 December 2019 19: 27
              +3
              Quote: Astra wild
              Presented stills from the films: "The Diamond Hand" and "The Adventures of Electronics"

              Well? Would you like to say something?
      3. akribos
        akribos 8 December 2019 21: 47
        +4
        The Indian commentary resembles a classic movie, MIB:
        - "Swamp gas plus light reflected from Venus."
        Now look at this window.
      4. 30hgsa
        30hgsa 8 December 2019 22: 02
        +3
        What’s the catch? The Indians have the question of further purchases of aircraft. Apparently the local officials were promised a good amount for the purchase of the right aircraft. And it began - 1 F-16 replaces 2 Su-30 MKI, and 1 Rafal replaces 2 F-16 ....
        https://topwar.ru/164814-v-indii-rasskazali-o-prevoshodstve-francuzskih-rafale-nad-rossijskimi-su-30mki.html
        And then suddenly such garbage - Bars sees its latest PFAR the latest Chinese stealth ... does not fit into the idea of ​​a bad S-30MKI, which means that you need to urgently explain why the Su-30 was lucky to buy the right planes :)
      5. maidan.izrailovich
        maidan.izrailovich 9 December 2019 04: 29
        +2
        It seemed ridiculous to me alone that India was making excuses for discovering Chinese invisible planes?

        And there is.
        And what the Indians still have, how not to make excuses.
        If the Russian 4th + ++ generation is not inferior to the Chinese 5th, then what can we say about the Su-57,
        And then a logical question arises. Why did you exit the joint project?
        In short, they justify their stupidity.
        1. Redfox3k
          Redfox3k 10 December 2019 10: 28
          0
          I would say confirm and acknowledge their stupidity.
    2. Eug
      Eug 8 December 2019 19: 38
      +2
      And on what grounds is the J-20 the fifth generation? Stealth is not there, engines in afterburner mode will not provide supersonic .. AFAR and side integration? Ammunition in the internal compartments? Even so, then, as for me, he’s not pulling for 5th ...
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 8 December 2019 20: 57
        +2
        Quote: Eug
        Even so, then, as for me, he’s not pulling on the 5th

        And in theirs and owl you can pull the globe wassat
      2. Yigal Kaganov
        Yigal Kaganov 27 December 2019 11: 59
        0
        Where did you get that there is no stealth? From the media I suppose?
    3. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 9 December 2019 17: 29
      0
      It must be understood that a miracle - airplanes are optimized so that the maximum effect is achieved in frontal projection. If the "invisibility" flies to the radar sideways or aft, then the invisibility there is already a little different.
  3. Black_PR
    Black_PR 8 December 2019 17: 04
    +11
    "... Recall that in China they declare that the J-20 fighter belongs to the fifth generation of combat aviation ..." So you can say that by the sixth generation ... To talk a language is not to roll bags.
  4. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 8 December 2019 17: 11
    +5
    Usually, when stealth fly over its territory or the sea, reflector lenses are attached to them.
    Luneberg lenses.
    1. GRF
      GRF 8 December 2019 17: 21
      0
      are they reset if necessary?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 December 2019 17: 25
        +6
        Not yet. But Israel is just working on this with its F-35s. Stealth will become dynamic.
        1. NN52
          NN52 8 December 2019 18: 13
          +6
          voyaka uh (Alexey)
          Will not ... at least on Adir.
        2. dauria
          dauria 8 December 2019 18: 16
          +4
          Not yet. But Israel is just working on it.


          Do not scatter, expensive. A simple active repeater that can always be turned off. Broadband antenna - LNA - amplifier - weak transmitter - transmitting antenna .. And the antennas in the off state should be well coordinated with the active load and the maximum KBV. And do not spoil the aerodynamics, and you can mow at least under a bomber, even under a flying aircraft carrier wink .
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 8 December 2019 18: 19
            +1
            "Do not be scattered, dear." ///
            ----
            Expensive. But the game is worth the candle.
            F-35 is simply designed for all sorts of bells and whistles. fellow
            1. dauria
              dauria 8 December 2019 18: 23
              +9
              Expensive. But the game is worth the candle.


              Who would argue. Sometimes it’s useful for a cat to pretend to be a tiger, sometimes a mouse. Learn from politicians - everyone pretends to be either smart or sheep.
              F-35 is just made for all sorts of frills

              Sure. An airplane with a "Jewish" soul. It seems to represent nothing of itself, just a good plane, and advertising was blown up to the skies. I hope you are not purchasing it at promotional rates.
            2. Voyager
              Voyager 8 December 2019 20: 28
              0
              Why not mount them into the fuselage with an open-close mechanism?
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 8 December 2019 18: 32
      +2
      Vovka, what are these very lenses for? To reflect radiation? You see, in my time (the end of the 70s) they didn’t know about it yet, and even narrow specialists knew it
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 December 2019 18: 34
        +3
        For artificially increasing the EPR of an airplane. To radar took him for a different type of aircraft.
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 9 December 2019 18: 39
          +1
          This is what animals do: change color or swell, so that if you do not scare the enemy, at least cheat?
    3. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 8 December 2019 19: 03
      +2
      What really these 3 pimples greatly increase the E-F-35 ?!
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 December 2019 19: 09
        +2
        Hundreds of times.
      2. dauria
        dauria 8 December 2019 19: 47
        +6
        What really these 3 pimples greatly increase the E-F-35 ?!


        You just need to understand that the EPR can be much larger, or much smaller than the geometric size. In general, what is an EPR? Imagine a butterfly net. Place it perpendicular to the locator beam (the distance to the locator doesn’t matter), collect all the energy in a second (this is the power in the target area). Redirect this power to a point transmit antenna and radiate evenly in all directions The tiny part of this power will go back to the locator in a tiny solid angle.
        Now, if you do this focus and the locator gets the same power back as from the real target - then the area of ​​your net is the same EPR in sq. meters.
        Now the question is - they took an aluminum sheet of 1 square meter. What is its EPR? The first case is perpendicular to the beam. The radar beam fell on the metal, turned 1 degrees and re-radiated back with the same phase front. (Of course, there will be currents flowing over the edges and will fall a little bit in all directions). But the main thing is power with square meters. meter we sent not in all directions evenly , and back to the locator with the same KND, as it was in the transmitting beam. There was a KND of 100 - then the EPR will be 1Q. m times 100 = 100 square meters. m
        2nd case - at an angle. Then all the power will go to the uncle in the neighboring galaxy, and we will get back the same "a little bit"
        The lens (like the corner reflector) always turns the beam 180 degrees, no matter what angle it comes from. This is how her layers are selected according to "Epsilon". Therefore, the EPR is huge.
    4. sabakina
      sabakina 8 December 2019 19: 30
      -2
      Alexey, dear, you fucked up with your lenses! Well, there is no decent air defense near you! And we have jeans for now! wink
      1. dauria
        dauria 8 December 2019 20: 32
        +3
        Alexey, dear, you fucked up with your lenses!


        Well, why did he immediately "fuck up"? On the contrary, the "warrior" blabbed about possible tactical novelties. Jews are masters in the tactics of enticement, bait, ambush. Now they will let the "goose" go, the Arabs will raise fighters or fire rockets, and he will immediately put on the invisibility cap. And the strike group, meanwhile, will crash into the object or fighters, when those after the afterburner run out of fuel. They are so "chosen by God" laughing I'm only afraid that our "warrior" will be noticed by their special officers and will begin to torture him, where he was from eight to eleven ...
        1. Redfox3k
          Redfox3k 10 December 2019 10: 37
          0
          In fact: the opponents of the Jews in the BV do not have decent air defense. In addition to the technical part of air defense, there must also be appropriate thinking, tactics, and a way of thinking. And the Arabs have a problem with this. They are straightforward in the technical part, like a bullet.
  5. knn54
    knn54 8 December 2019 17: 23
    0
    The Indians perked up.
  6. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 8 December 2019 17: 36
    +5
    Quote: GRF
    Quote: bouncyhunter
    It seemed ridiculous to me alone that India was making excuses for discovering Chinese invisible planes? recourse

    nda, sometimes it’s better to be silent than to say ...
    to challenge a potential adversary to self-improvement is a disservice ...

    Quite the opposite. A stone in my bosom, if you do not know about it, you are not afraid. But if you SUSPECT that I have such a stone, then you are forced to abandon the shovel and rake, leave the garden and start building a machine gun in order to overtake me in stone throwing. If I SHOW you a piece of what else I have ..... Why do you think we showed the penguins the edge of the Vanguard, "leaked information" about Poseidon, and so on? By accident, the picture was shown. When there is already a fight, then, of course, no one will talk. But, BEFORE the fight, it is a good thing to send a potential enemy on the wrong track and plunge into catastrophic costs, the Buddha himself ordered.
  7. Aliken
    Aliken 8 December 2019 17: 44
    +6
    The Indians only had to bring down the J20. Maybe then the Chinese will believe.
  8. Kunica
    Kunica 8 December 2019 18: 15
    +4
    Instructions for pilots J 20. Do not fly over the mountains, do not wear white, do not wear tight laughing
  9. vladcub
    vladcub 8 December 2019 18: 22
    +4
    Perhaps the j-20 is not at all so invisible and the Indians really saw it.
    Perhaps they really read that the Chinese fly there and say: "and we saw you."
    About the "thermal lens". Perhaps the Chinese "nividimoks" have some kind of flaw according to which the Indians calculate J-20, but they deliberately talk about the "thermal lens" so that the Chinese do not eliminate this defect.
    If we recall what kind of relationship is quite believable.
    1. cniza
      cniza 8 December 2019 19: 04
      +3
      Quote: vladcub
      Perhaps the j-20 is not at all so invisible and the Indians really saw it.
      Perhaps they really read that the Chinese fly there and say: "and we saw you."
      .


      Troll each other in full.
    2. surok1
      surok1 24 February 2020 14: 33
      0
      The Chinese people need to buy one Su-35MKI, if they still do not have it, well, or in exchange ... The main thing is to put your pilot there with a camera.))
  10. Tu-16
    Tu-16 8 December 2019 18: 24
    +2
    I wonder how the Indians determined that it was J-20? Based on this "effect", any flying object with a jet engine can be detected.
    1. cniza
      cniza 8 December 2019 19: 03
      +3
      Downwind with a wet finger. lol
  11. Bshkaus
    Bshkaus 8 December 2019 18: 25
    +3
    As you agree, why yell at the whole world that "stealth" found? Even if this is so, then the likely enemy will change the tactics of use, given that he is being seen.
    The position "they don't know what they see" is much more advantageous.
    1. cniza
      cniza 8 December 2019 19: 03
      +3
      Nobody canceled the information war ...
    2. Yigal Kaganov
      Yigal Kaganov 27 December 2019 12: 01
      0
      Just an informational stuffing
  12. Yaro Polk
    Yaro Polk 8 December 2019 18: 33
    +3
    Yes, there is nothing invisible so far, there are no such technologies yet, mankind has not grown yet, in the future it is possible)
    1. cniza
      cniza 8 December 2019 19: 02
      +3
      Well, I really want to, and all this is only for the price of the product.
    2. S-400
      S-400 9 December 2019 19: 28
      0
      You will be surprised: it is not possible in the future, physics forbids. Unfortunately, the most "non-reflecting object" - an absolutely black body has ... non-zero RCS. So the radar, in theory, is able to detect even a black body! And to all these "stealth" to the black body as to the moon on foot :))
  13. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 8 December 2019 19: 00
    0
    If India discovered Chinese stealth with its aircraft radars, then why didn’t they provide video evidence ?! This would be a strong blow to China and its defense industry.

    And so this is all talk.
    1. S-400
      S-400 9 December 2019 19: 30
      0
      You, apparently, are infinitely far from radar, otherwise you would not have written such nonsense. Well, India will demonstrate the video recording from the screen of the IKO with some kind of target followed. And what? Everyone will scream at once: yes it wasn’t the J-20 at all, the record was made in the middle of nowhere and in general it is a fake and a simulation. How do you prove that the record is genuine?
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 December 2019 21: 12
        0
        Did everyone believe the Indian pilots in words?
  14. cniza
    cniza 8 December 2019 19: 01
    +3
    All this more closely resembles an episode of information war between neighboring countries, positioning themselves as at least geopolitical competitors.


    It goes without saying, but the Chinese invisibility is doubtful.
  15. Tsoy
    Tsoy 8 December 2019 19: 41
    +1
    And that nobody was confused by the phrase in the article about detecting the "thermal lens" of the radar? Maybe OLS meant?
  16. lucul
    lucul 8 December 2019 20: 14
    +2
    Chinese military experts, commenting on the well-known statements of their Indian neighbors that the Su-30MKI radars have already repeatedly detected JA-20 stealth fighter aircraft of the PLA,

    In the Hindus language as broomstick .....
    Ours, too, in Syria, could dissolve the language, but they do not.
  17. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 8 December 2019 21: 15
    0
    Something no one writes at what distance were discovered. And without it - the usual boast
  18. 30hgsa
    30hgsa 8 December 2019 21: 56
    +1
    Or maybe just Bars even considering its PFAR - a good radar?
    or Indians can not praise the Russian military equipment they purchased? :)
    After all, then it turns out that they are vysery on the topic 1Rafal = 2 F-16, 1 f-16 = 2 Su-30MKI
    https://topwar.ru/164814-v-indii-rasskazali-o-prevoshodstve-francuzskih-rafale-nad-rossijskimi-su-30mki.html
    go through the female genitalia and it will be more difficult for local generals to work out grandfathers paid for future purchases of rafals instead of su-30MKI? :)))
  19. Dima_Anlim
    Dima_Anlim 9 December 2019 00: 02
    -1
    As always, Indian storytellers compete with Chinese storytellers. Third storyteller Pakistan - the couple is silent.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. S-400
    S-400 9 December 2019 19: 20
    0
    I don't really understand what the problem is? "Stealth", as well as an ordinary plane, can be found and taken for escort, the only question is in the range. From the classic equation of radar, the target detection range is proportional to the fourth root of the target's RCS in m ^ 2. If, suppose, a conventional fighter has RCS in the 2m ^ 2 region and the Su-30 radar is detected at a distance of 70 km, then, accordingly, "stealth" with RCS of, say, 0,05m ^ 2 will be detected at about 30 km. And if the distance between the planes was such, then why, in fact, the Su-30 could not see this miracle of Chinese technology?
    1. Redfox3k
      Redfox3k 10 December 2019 11: 02
      0
      and if the "stealth" turns on the radar to detect an ordinary aircraft, then the "stealth" itself smoothly turns into the category of ordinary aircraft.
  22. Yigal Kaganov
    Yigal Kaganov 27 December 2019 12: 03
    0
    An old fake. The Hindus and the F-16 from the MiG (which for a minute Spear) shot down. And they saw the J-20, although at what distance and through which they had not yet figured out, but you believe us, we have never lied
  23. martiny
    martiny 17 January 2020 07: 01
    0
    Chinese masters find excuses. Even the facts do not bother them. Honestly they lie on the blue eye
  24. surok1
    surok1 24 February 2020 13: 30
    0
    They are not bragging for their success.))