Military Review

"Rzhev". Well, who paid it?

396

You know, dear readers and connoisseurs of good cinema, if this film had the usual set of stamps, it would be just the bottom. The usual bottom is from Russian cinema. But since this is not comme il faut, blows must be present, heavy and solid.


So, the novelty.

The novelty, dear ones, is that the film was shot very funny. The company, on the basis of which the plot develops, does not have a single foreigner. Exceptionally purely Slavic faces. This film differs sharply from hundreds of other films in which Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Armenians, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Tatars fought hand in hand.

In short, ethnic cleansing is evident. Russian Moscow under Rzhev was defended exclusively by Russians. Well, as part of the Ukrainian Front, Auschwitz was liberated exclusively by Ukrainians. The rest, obviously, did not go through political casting.

Of course, an exception was made. Naturally, as without a Jewish political instructor? No way. We ticked it was.

There was a Ukrainian. And especially in order to introduce a Ukrainian-almost-traitor into the film, the role of assistant specialist was invented.

Specialist, of course, a rare cattle that does not use brains at all. But he entertains himself in the full program by sending fighters to the field, under German machine guns, to collect the German leaflets dropped from the plane. And then he searched the soldiers in search of these. Naturally, I found one fighter, and the entertainment should have continued either by shooting, or something else.

But why he needs an assistant is generally incomprehensible. The special officer himself did a good job of annealing half of the film and openly made him shudder to doubt the adequacy of the scriptwriter. Running around the field under machine-gun fire is something ...

So, he doesn’t need an assistant, but he was. Ukrainian. Here, you see, what is the point? Slav fighters - they are all through and through good heroes, even a convict, a lover of rummaging around in his pockets. They are on one side of the barricade. But the special officer, the Jewish political instructor and the Ukrainian assistant executioner - on the other.

In general, this is a feature of the author of the book, Kondratiev. The rank and file and staff are all saints, and the higher in rank and position, the blacker.

And here is a new feature of the Russian culture: the Ukrainian ... no, it cannot be said that he is directly a traitor. But the person is slippery and vile. And he loves trophies, and is cowardly, and did not become a traitor just because he was afraid to shoot his boss and self-cut out of the plot.

In general, if in general, the film is a classic collection of stamps of anti-Soviet and Russophobic propaganda. In the best traditions of our time.

And what, really, is present ALL that is in manuals.

In addition to the stupid special officer (well, a representative of a special department cannot be a priori smart) and his assistant, of course, there is a Jewish political instructor. In general, Arseniy Semenov played well, these shaking hands, screaming, drooling in all directions ... Well, yes, it's disgusting.

The criminal line is also not forgotten. A representative of the community of former prisoners is also represented, as without him? Naturally, he steals from his own people, he rummages through his pockets, drags everything that lies badly, but can not be compared with the trinity of negative heroes. He's kind of like his own. Type, repentant.

Combat ... Well, I immediately realized that the team that made the film had no idea about command and control of the army and the army as a whole. Well, there are circumstances in life that do not allow serving.

"Rzhev". Well, who paid it?

So, a battalion commander is a type who simply surpassed the trinity that we talked about above. He gets high from sending his subordinates to death. Twice per movie, by the way. This is if someone did not get it the first time.

And while the company is being destroyed in Ovsyannikovo, at the command post of the battalion, undercover tanks (appear in the frame), in cozy dugouts, fathers-commanders are deigned to consume alcohol, without really bothering with a snack.

Well, gentlemen, filmmakers simply don’t seem to be aware that the battalion is three companies plus support (machine guns and “forty-five”). And now a third of the battalion is killed, and the battalion commander ... And the battalion commander simply explains to his deputy why he will not send reinforcements (the tanks are at the headquarters), where he saw the company, regulations and in general.

In short, I’d like to say one thing about the preparation of the shooting team: apparently, they studied according to German leaflets. The first was about Jewish political instructors, and this is the second, which "Your commanders are leading you to slaughter ..."

In general - well, a very clumsy image of an artificially created slaughter by individual scum. And there the viewer had to figure out for himself, from the battalion commander and above, who and how fought.

And what, my companions and I managed to understand the plan. Having looked at it (as stated in the advertisement: “This is a tough male movie in which there is no place for sentiment”), I realized that we lost a million human lives that were lost in battles, including near Rzhev, solely because that Soviet fighters, units and units of the Red Army were commanded through one scum, cowards, and careerists. From the bottom to the top. And that is precisely why the enemy in Berlin was not beaten in August 1941.

And the driven companions are faced with a difficult choice. Either lose the company, following a meaningless command order, or withdraw your people from mortar fire, but at the same time leave occupied positions and go to the tribunal for breaking the order.


Some kind of "orders are meaningless, resistance is useless, give up or die." I don’t know who wrote this, but obviously the fans are either Goebbels or his students.

In general, to sort through all the stupidities and absurdities of the film - it will take a very long time. Unforgivable a lot, the so-called "film" itself does not deserve it.

Can I praise something? Can. The battle pictures are pretty well done. With bloody puddles and streams torn off limbs. With heads pierced by bayonets. The head is the most convenient place for poking with a bayonet, right?

The only thing I would like to say about the part of the film left over from the stupidity and meanness of the commanders: God, where are the consultants? Where are the real military men who used to be able to tell you "how it was." Well, it’s clear that the TOY war veterans cannot be invited, but there are real officers with real combat experience!

I realized that no one in the movie-servicing team who did not serve did not know what a defensive fighter might do. If the film is rallies and searches for trophy drinks. Everything, there are no more duties and cannot be.

Moreover, the rallies are not interrupted even by the Germans who came to the war.

Well, why didn’t anyone explain to the “battalion commanders from the cinema” that the political officer looks like an idiot, persuading the frozen soldiers in the trenches not to sleep? And they still fall asleep, because they have been fighting for three days without a break.

Where is the comrade general or colonel who would explain how everything really was? That at night in the frozen trenches there was only a shift on duty, but combat protection was put up. And the rest of the staff huddled at least in the dugouts, where "the fire was beating in a cramped stove." FROM weaponsready at the first signal to jump out for any action.

But the idea was to show the political leader, not in vain consuming his ration. Supports, like, personnel and all the rest.

That's all, I don’t want to poke around this dirt anymore, enough.

All these "cuming-outs", which the movie is just stuffed with, are all confessing to each other on the eve of imminent death, this crap and meanness are tired.

I have only one question. Who ordered this?

Who ordered the filmets, wretched and vile, based on Vyacheslav Kondratyev’s book “Atone with Blood” (1991 year)? I will not evaluate the book itself, which the author wrote fairly fairly after the war.

And in general, from sergeant Kondratiev, who was awarded the medal “For Courage” for taking command and taking the fighters on the attack from the very village of Ovsyannikovo in the winter of 1942, to the author of the book Kondratiev, who shot himself in 1993, there’s an abyss.

In which an attempt to portray something collapsed.

But the film "Rzhev" was released, where, in fact, about the city of military glory, Rzhev itself was not specifically mentioned. But this is just a wonderful film about the war, consisting of rallies, meanness, democracy, looting and "cuming outs."

In general, as it was not worthwhile to go to something created at the expense of the budget in this country, it is not worth it. Isolated attempts by Chaliopa and (really looking forward to) Ugolnikov do not count. For the most part, a foul-smelling turbidity pours from the screens, humiliating and insulting memory.

If the task at the state level is simply to ruin everything Soviet, to decommunize the Soviet legacy, then maybe just say so about it? How honestly and openly they did it in Ukraine.

On May 9 beautiful words are spoken, and all of the 364 of the rest of the day in the year all these "Rzhevs", "Stalingrad" and so on.

Maybe it's time to change something?

Until Private Ryan Saved The World In One Helmet?

Inessa Yurchenko, general producer of the film "Rzhev":

“It's hard to predict what the audience’s reaction will be. Whatever it is, I am proud that we did it. No one has yet touched on the theme of Rzhev in feature films. ”


It would be better if you, Madame Yurchenko, would not touch this topic. With such hands ...

Yuri Ozerov did not work out of you. From none. What only confirms the film "Rzhev", in which about Rzhev himself and the events of that time not a word.
Author:
396 comments
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 9 December 2019 06: 10
    +24
    The head is the most convenient place for poking with a bayonet, right?

    Ha ... pierce with a bayonet under the chin directly into the brain ... either through the eye or in the mouth or ear ... hand-to-hand combat you know an unpredictable thing ... then don’t think about where to stick the bayonet.

    The film Rzhev has not yet fully seen ... I can comment on it only after watching.
    I read the memoirs of Field Marshal Model about the battles of Rzhev ... he skillfully used the miscalculations of our command ... it was bitter to read it.
    They stuffed some kind of village with our troops and then radiated in plain text about the impossibility of housekeeping people ... naturally after this there was an artillery raid on the village ... the losses were very large because of the similar stupidity of the command personnel.
    1. Civil
      Civil 9 December 2019 07: 02
      +97
      A complete set of "Jewish political instructor", "special beast", a convict, didn't the girl run around the front line in a miniskirt and was all painted? Maybe at least for films about the Second World War, return the commission for screening the scripts.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 9 December 2019 07: 08
        +62
        Under Rzhev from blood, grass turned red for ages,
        Near Rzhev, nightingales are still singing crazy
        About how near Rzhev, under the small town of Rzhev,
        Great, long, heavy fights were ...

        Under Rzhev, battles didn’t stop at night and day,
        And the enemy was dressed and shod and strong and cruel,
        Under Rzhev, the circle ring was contracting
        And ours fell from their feet from bullets and from hunger.

        Under the Rzhev swamps, all over swamps,
        Quagmire and bumps, yes pits and rare willow.
        And in these swamps without an account, without an account, without an account
        The heroes of our desperate attacks crashed!

        Under Rzhev in a bloody, lead, continuous whirl
        The glorious children of the native land did not flinch
        They rushed into the breakthrough of the encirclement by the Death Valley,
        And in this valley they gained their immortality!

        ..And now a grain field is swaying in the valley,
        And now in the valley they’re triple harvesting,
        And there underground in three layers, three layers, three layers -
        soldiers, soldiers, soldiers of Russia lie ...

        And now everyone is waiting for them at home, everyone is waiting - they won’t wait,
        In the hearts of relatives, an unfinished battle is in full swing,
        And at home everyone believes, hopes - suddenly let them come back!
        Though in songs, even in thoughts, even in fairy tales, they’ll return home ...

        Under Rzhev from blood, grass turned red for ages,
        Near Rzhev, nightingales are still singing crazy,
        About how near Rzhev, under the small town of Rzhev
        Great, long, heavy fights were ...
        M. Nozhkin
        1. Vladimir16
          Vladimir16 9 December 2019 08: 08
          +90
          A film about the Great Patriotic War MUST, MUST be patriotic.
          Otherwise it's dog shit.

          Our native heads were laid down for the sake of our Motherland. For the sake of our lives.

          They got ublyu.dki who pour mud over our country all over the country. (directors, actors, producers, financiers, customers and all participants including extras and drivers)
          Once again, tens of millions have given their lives in this DOMESTIC war.

          There can not be divided into nationalities and positions. We were all Russian. They lived in a single country for dozens of centuries.

          The main VICTORY! And we know the price.

          And this is not a damn pathos. I rather fear for our children and grandchildren.
          With such crap on the screen, it’s not a fact that grandchildren will celebrate this VICTORY.
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 9 December 2019 08: 34
            +56
            . Specialist, of course, a rare cattle. ... entertains himself .. sending fighters to the field, under German machine guns

            A distinctive feature of Russian cinema is any a modern war film always shows a special beast. Although in Soviet films this was not.

            The red line is the thought. The people are heroes, the authorities (Soviet of course) are scum. The people won the war not because of, but in spite of. Exclusively on their own heroism. And, they say, they were expecting the Germans in spite of the pressure of the Soviet government. This is very unpleasant when they use the sacred - our victory in the Great Patriotic War for the desecration of the Soviet Union.

            . If the task at the state level is simply to ruin everything Soviet, to decommunize the Soviet heritage, then maybe just say so about it? How honestly and openly they did it in Ukraine. If the task at the state level is simply to ruin everything Soviet, to decommunize the Soviet heritage, maybe just say that about it? How honest and open it is made in Ukraine.

            As in Ukraine it is impossible yet. We have to act more subtly. Our government does not directly blame the Soviet past, but underlines this in every detail. Form public opinion with the help of various tricks and NLP.
            1. Alexander Suvorov
              Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 09: 07
              +66
              Stas157 (Stas)
              A distinctive feature of Russian cinema is that in any modern war film, a special beast is always shown.
              And I always want to ask a question to these nonsense people who shoot such a ram, and what do they think a special agent should do? Distribute flowers to soldiers?
              I already want to yell - CAN'T DOWNLOAD - DO NOT TORTURE Pop. Do not grasp what you cannot.
              From modern about the war, you can only watch "Panfilov's 28", well, perhaps even "In August 44th", EVERYTHING! The rest is a rare ram.
              The "Zvezda" TV channel is very annoying with its eternal advertising of "masterpieces" from Pimanov and his wife. His "wearable" and "Crimea" is just a rare vomit, and it is presented as the pinnacle of cinema. You can't watch it. To take and so spoil a real feat, you still have to try. Well at least I haven't gotten to Kolobanov yet, you filth.

              Do not touch the war of mediocrity, you do not know how to shoot, you do not know how to play, you do not know how to convey emotion, you do not know how. Shoot cheap soap operas, this is your ceiling.
              DO NOT TOUCH HOLY!
              1. raw174
                raw174 9 December 2019 09: 39
                -22
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                28 panfilovtsev

                As a reconstruction film - yes, as a feature film - it is sluggish, there is no specific storyline, weak acting ... Of the latter, I liked the T-34 more. Cinema conveys the idea, first of all through the spectacle. Scroll now in the movie "Liberation", only a few will go to it (I review it from time to time), the requirements of the audience have changed. In the end, it is foolish to deny the miscalculations and mistakes of the commanders, even before the Second World War, you don't need to remember the history, remember the long-suffering storm of Grozny on 31.12.94/XNUMX/XNUMX ... Summing up, I will say that it is silly to expect documentary accuracy from a feature film, the absence of cliches, too, because this is an element promotion of the plot, for the elevation of a fighter, a bright contrast is needed, as a rule, a coward and an alarmist commander, this is a digestible form of information presentation ...
                1. Alexander Suvorov
                  Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 09: 45
                  +54
                  raw174 (Ravil)
                  As a reconstruction film - yes, as a feature film - sluggish, there is no specific storyline, the actors play poorly ...
                  I agree that even "Panfilov's 28" in terms of actors' play does not reach the level of Soviet films.
                  As for me, for me the standard was and will remain "They fought for the Motherland", "Only old men go to battle", "Liberation", "Come and see", "The dawns here are quiet" and other masterpieces. Yes, probably from the point of view of the younger generation it is more interesting for them to watch "T-34" than Soviet films. Well, here it tastes and colors ... For me, modern cinema has long ceased to exist, I cannot stomach it!
                  1. raw174
                    raw174 9 December 2019 10: 01
                    +20
                    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                    They fought for the Motherland "," Only old men go to battle "," Liberation "," Come and see "," And the dawns here are quiet "

                    In my personal rating, among these films (of this era), "Officers" is in the first place.
                    1. Alexander Suvorov
                      Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 10: 05
                      +28
                      raw174 (Ravil)
                      In my personal rating, among these films (of this era), "Officers" is in the first place.
                      I agree! In my words, "these are those who with hostility rose as one, those who took Berlin" tears welling up in my eyes.
                      1. Vladimir16
                        Vladimir16 9 December 2019 13: 07
                        +16
                        waiting for documentary accuracy from the feature film is stupid, lack of cliches, too, because this is an element of the promotion of the plot, for the elevation of a fighter, need a bright contrast, usually a coward and alarmist commander, this is a digestible form of reporting ...

                        Those who want to cut down the loot are talking about fashion trends.
                        But these trends shape people. For example, those people who want our victory to be taken away from our children. Ublyudki understand that we remember, but they want to knock this memory out of our children.

                        In other words, I’ll tell you that you are talking nonsense. Moreover, you justify the shit that they want (and do it) to educate our children and grandchildren.
                        Mediocrity as usual slippers.

                        But in this case, this is not mediocrity, it is the planned brainwashing of children and adolescents.

                        Only your filth can water your country with mud. To show power that hates their people (specialists, political officers, commanders who supposedly hate soldiers) is a call to overthrow the government.
                      2. andrew42
                        andrew42 9 December 2019 17: 22
                        +3
                        I admit the same thing, about evil tears. And then I thought that one such, strange .. :)
                      3. Mexican. 29
                        Mexican. 29 10 December 2019 00: 10
                        +10
                        Exactly! "From the heroes of bygone days, sometimes there are no names left ....", but we, the descendants, need to do everything so that not a single honestly fighting for their homeland is forgotten, no matter how much time passes. My grandfather was called up in 1941, at the age of 18, the commander of a T-34 tank platoon, several wounds. He died early, fragments made it known, long before my birth. And even though I didn’t know him personally, I’ll keep my memory alive for myself and try to tell the children
                    2. VeteranVSSSR
                      VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 06
                      +2
                      There is a cool film / trilogy, Long Versts of War.
                      I recommend that the film was shot in the old mode ...
                    3. skobars
                      skobars 9 December 2019 23: 20
                      -3
                      Well, I don’t know, I watched this series, you can watch it, but in some scenes not Officers are shown, but some neurotics.
                      1. brat07
                        brat07 10 December 2019 03: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: skobars
                        Well, I don’t know, I watched this series, you can watch it, but in some scenes not Officers are shown, but some neurotics.

                        The film "Officers" is not a TV series. Actors such as Georgy Yumatov and Vasily Lanovoy played there.
                        The film was shot based on the play of the same name by Boris Vasilievna in 1972. More precisely, it was released that year. "Golden Fund" of Soviet cinema.
                      2. skobars
                        skobars 29 February 2020 22: 10
                        +1
                        The film Officers is a CLASS !!! And there is a modern series of the same name.
                      3. brat07
                        brat07 1 March 2020 18: 39
                        0
                        Quote: skobars
                        The film Officers is a CLASS !!! And there is a modern series of the same name.

                        You give me a fat plus!
                    4. the finish
                      the finish 9 December 2019 23: 58
                      +6
                      Movie * Soldier's Father *
                    5. w70
                      w70 10 December 2019 07: 22
                      -3
                      Someone like lubok
                      1. Nick
                        Nick 10 December 2019 14: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: w70
                        Someone like lubok

                        Well yes. And to someone a piece of shit.
                  2. matross
                    matross 9 December 2019 11: 43
                    +15
                    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                    the standard were and will remain "They Fought for the Motherland", "Only Old Men Go to Battle", "Liberation", "Come and See", "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" and other masterpieces

                    Among the good films of the post-Soviet period, I would name "In August 44", "Brest Fortress" and "Star". So even now you can shoot with talent, without cranberries and perverse ideology. There would be a desire ...
                  3. Paul Siebert
                    Paul Siebert 9 December 2019 11: 54
                    +22
                    And I have a favorite Soviet film about the battles near Moscow - "At Your Threshold."
                    The calculation of the anti-aircraft 85-mm gun fights with German tanks and armored vehicles, entrenched in the garden of a settled village house. The hostess does not leave with the evacuation, remains with the guys until the end.
                    There is no pathos in this film. There are no traitors.
                    There are no Jews and Specialists.
                    There are Russian soldiers and an elderly woman suitable for them in her mother.
                    I won’t trade this movie for all the modern shit ...
                  4. ccsr
                    ccsr 9 December 2019 13: 00
                    +12
                    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                    As for me, for me the standard was and will remain "They fought for the Motherland", "Only old men go to battle", "Liberation", "Come and see", "The dawns here are quiet" and other masterpieces.

                    You can evaluate the films of the past about the war in different ways (I don't watch the current ones at all), but as one WWII veteran who passed it from the fall of 1941 to the Victory from an ordinary infantryman to a gun commander told me, the most truthful films in his opinion were "Live and the dead "and" Hot snow ". And he had seen a lot, and he finished his service as a colonel of the General Staff, so he could understand and appreciate the war in the post-war period, which means that his opinion can be trusted.
                    1. VeteranVSSSR
                      VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 09
                      +1
                      And my father could not watch the film Two Soldiers with M. Bernes.
                  5. 2Albert
                    2Albert 10 December 2019 05: 39
                    -3
                    I watched a film with my youngest son, the film is better than the story at its base and is clearer in why we won. The most important phrase, by the way, said by the command and control battalion commander - "the fascists will destroy us all if they win" is the reality of 1942, the Great Patriotic War of the peoples of Russia.
                2. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 9 December 2019 11: 14
                  +15
                  Quote: raw174
                  Summing up, I’ll say that to wait for documentary accuracy from a feature film ...

                  I agree with you. But ... The film must have the logic of the whole war. And logic, this is our victory. Yes, we know that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation of our troops was stupidly lost by Zhukov. But ... And in the fields near Rzhev our victory was forged. I’m not talking about this film now, I haven’t watched it, I’m talking about everyone shot in the 90s and subsequent years.
                  For all these: "Gu-gI", "Penalty battles", etc., etc., the Minister of Culture is to blame. He finances these crafts. There is a film-masterpiece - "The Dawns Here Are Quiet", why was it necessary to finance the shooting of a film about this, knowing that it would not become a masterpiece? No more topics?
                  And I am always outraged and amused by the attempt to expose the commissars (political officers) and the Specialists as some stupid, cowardly moral freaks. Were there any? Perhaps in the upper echelons, but at the forefront .., you know, a stray bullet, with all that it implies. Writers and directors do not think about this? What are they thinking?
                  Including thanks to such films, "Koli from Urengoy" appears and the MINISTER OF CULTURE is also to blame for this.
                  1. Leshy1975
                    Leshy1975 9 December 2019 13: 07
                    +24
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Quote: raw174
                    Summing up, I’ll say that to wait for documentary accuracy from a feature film ...

                    I agree with you. But ... The film must have the logic of the whole war. And logic, this is our victory. Yes, we know that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation of our troops was stupidly lost by Zhukov. But ... And in the fields near Rzhev our victory was forged. I’m not talking about this film now, I haven’t watched it, I’m talking about everyone shot in the 90s and subsequent years.
                    For all these: "Gu-gI", "Penalty battles", etc., etc., the Minister of Culture is to blame. He finances these crafts. There is a film-masterpiece - "The Dawns Here Are Quiet", why was it necessary to finance the shooting of a film about this, knowing that it would not become a masterpiece? No more topics?
                    And I am always outraged and amused by the attempt to expose the commissars (political officers) and the Specialists as some stupid, cowardly moral freaks. Were there any? Perhaps in the upper echelons, but at the forefront .., you know, a stray bullet, with all that it implies. Writers and directors do not think about this? What are they thinking?
                    Including thanks to such films, "Koli from Urengoy" appears and the MINISTER OF CULTURE is also to blame for this.

                    Well, why did you stop half way, I mean at the Minister of Culture? Do not be afraid, the power is in the truth. And the truth (from my point of view) is this: this is not only the fault of the Minister of Culture, but of the ALL power of the Russian Federation. However, the word “guilt” here will not be appropriate, it’s like blaming the fascists for being fascists. What else can you expect from a group of anti-Sovietists who came to power as a result of the counter-revolution? What truth, what objectivity should be expected from the main characters (Yeltsin and his successors, heirs) of this crime? And if someone begins to assure that this is not the case and there is no such request from the state and there is no such censorship. Then let them explain to me in what "random" way the theme of the Soviet past is now presented in a negatively ridiculed key? Does it happen by itself? As the evening M. V. Solovyov said there: we don't even have any manifestations of censorship. Of course there is no censorship, if only to praise the authorities and scold Ukraine, what kind of censorship is there, there are no restrictions. But I'll look at someone who wants to make a film about the events of 1991 and 1993. Such an objective film, with the memories of the participants in the events from both sides. Do you think the state will allocate money? Even if (source of RBC): At the Moscow festival of amateur theaters "Young for the Young", the performance based on the story of Gianni Rodari "The Adventures of Cipollino" was banned because of the references to modernity introduced into it.
                    The play, titled “#Groupe #young,” was created by teenagers from the studio of the Center for Theater Arts. It was prepared in the genre of "satirical pamphlet"

                    Yes, about the cancellation of the play, this is no longer news. But as an illustration of whether the state is following what is shown to the audience and in what light is a perfect example.
                    This is not the fault of the Minister of Culture alone, but the essence of the current government, led by V.V. Putin.

                    PS To the author Roman Skomorokhov, I express my gratitude and respect for this article. The novel called a spade a spade. hi
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 9 December 2019 13: 28
                      +5
                      Quote: Leshy1975

                      Well, why did they stop half way, I mean on the Minister of Culture?

                      Your reproach is quite appropriate. hi
                      I agree with you in relation to the author of the article.
                      1. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 9 December 2019 13: 34
                        +2
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Quote: Leshy1975

                        Well, why did they stop half way, I mean on the Minister of Culture?

                        Your reproach is quite appropriate. hi
                        I agree with you in relation to the author of the article.

                        hi For calmly and constructively accepting the remark.
                    2. New Year day
                      New Year day 9 December 2019 13: 46
                      +13
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      But the truth (from my point of view) is this: it is not only the Minister of Culture’s fault, but ALL the authorities of the Russian Federation.

                      they said right! Such films are not a coincidence, but a regularity.
                      In modern Russia, the so-called Soviet man is completely destroyed. For better or worse, the old values ​​were destroyed in the 1990s. The main motive today is profit, not some abstract principles. Most of the citizens profess the principle of anything goes - everything is possible, everything is allowed. And this is determined by the position in the hierarchy of power, the amount of money, the availability of real estate. This part of society is not ready to sacrifice its interests for the sake of the state and people. Actually, for the sake of this, the authorities are trying. Well, we choose the power ourselves
                    3. VeteranVSSSR
                      VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 11
                      +1
                      D / f ,, The Country We Lost ''
                      1. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 9 December 2019 23: 59
                        +5
                        Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                        D / f ,, The Country We Lost ''

                        Oddly enough, the search engine gives you only what is similar in the name you specified: Russia that we lost - the documentary and journalistic film of the Russian director Stanislav Govorukhin dedicated to pre-revolutionary Russia was shot in 1992. hi
                      2. VeteranVSSSR
                        VeteranVSSSR 10 December 2019 07: 34
                        +1
                        That's right, S. Govorukhin Soviet director ...
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 9 December 2019 14: 50
                    +18
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Yes, we know that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation of our troops was stupidly lost by Zhukov.

                    Uh-huh ... blame everything on Zhukov. Of course, the "bloody butcher" Zhukov received superbly trained troops under command - and ruined everything with his mediocre orders.
                    / sarcasm off

                    In the Rzhev meat grinder "merit" of all participants. From commanders who set tasks from the calculation of full-blooded and trained formations to a simple infantry Vanya, who fired twice or three times in an offensive per day. The infantry does not follow the tanks. Tanks single-handedly reach the trenches - and burn, knocked out by the German infantry. And the next day, the infantry goes on the attack without tanks - and lies down under the machine guns. The first assault detachments operate more or less successfully - but the infantry does not follow them either, and the attack aircraft, having used up the wearable BC, retreat to their original positions (the order to create detachments to occupy the lines captured by assault groups has to be issued already at the front-line level). Artillery and mortars fire somewhere there (sometimes getting on their own - because the battalion commanders forget to plan or command the transfer of fire to a new frontier). Even OM and BM artillery, up to 305 mm howitzers (these mastodons suffer from enemy aircraft) do not save.
                    In short, a typical mess of the combat training period of the Red Army. Exactly the same as near Stalingrad, on the northern front. Only near Stalingrad were the Romanians, on the plots of which they managed to break through the front. But in the GA Center there were only Germans.
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 9 December 2019 19: 47
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Yeah ... we bring everything to Zhukov.

                      Yeah, like victory, so is the marshal of victory, but like defeat, everyone is to blame.
                      Who prepared the operation? All (soldiers, sergeants, com. Mouth, battalions, regiments) or beetles? That's how she was prepared, so she went.
                      I understand that we, couch strategists, are not given the right to criticize and correctly, that is not given. This is not criticism, God forbid, this is my understanding of the essence of the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation.
                      1. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 10 December 2019 11: 01
                        +6
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Who prepared the operation? All (soldiers, sergeants, com. Mouth, battalions, regiments) or beetles?

                        You will be surprised, but prepared everything. Because the frontal offensive plan serves only as a guide for developing offensive plans up to the battalion. Neither Zhukov nor the front headquarters developed plans for the battalion commanders.
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        That's how she was prepared, so she went.

                        Remind you of Moscow-41? When Zhukov issues an order "go around fortified settlements", and the division commanders then happily report on the repeated assaults of these very settlements.
                        The commander and headquarters plan the operation based on compliance by subordinates with at least the Charter. Here's how, for example, NPP tanks should act:
                        277. The direct interaction between tanks and infantry-supporting artillery usually consists in the fact that the artillery of the infantry firing leads ahead of the tanks at detected or suspected areas where anti-aircraft equipment is located and firing means that impede the advancement of infantry.
                        Tank companies supporting the battalions suppress the machine-gun defense system under cover of artillery fire.
                        Artillery battalion and tank company commanders must be aware of the set signals for carrying or holding artillery fire.
                        In addition, the artillery commanders and the OSB of the artillery divisions at rifle battalions report on the advancement of tanks, on the obstacles they encounter and the ongoing delays in their movement.
                        If the attacking tanks are forced to delay, the infantry, without delay, continues the offensive with the support of artillery. To this end, all artillery should be constantly prepared for the direct support of the infantry units associated with it, using OSBs, battery observation posts and advanced observers. The connection between infantry and artillery should not be interrupted under any circumstances for even one minute, even with massive tank support.

                        Where is all this under Rzhev? belay
                        Moreover, ensuring the fulfillment of all this is not the task of the front, but of the divisional commanders, regiments and battalions.
                      2. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 10 December 2019 11: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Neither Zhukov nor the front headquarters developed plans for the battalion commanders.

                        Like the battalion commander did not take part in the development of the operation. They did it: com. front, the chief of staff of the front and the operational department of the headquarters of the front.
                        And the battalion commander, having received an order by such a date to go to the line .., to master ... etc. It’s not planning the operation itself, but how to fulfill the task. Agree, these are somewhat different concepts.
                        And when developing the operation, Zhukov had to foresee - what is the task of the particular division and can it, given the availability of its funds and the expected means of the enemy (intelligence), complete the task?
                    2. Alekseev
                      Alekseev 9 December 2019 20: 04
                      +7
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Yes, we know that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation of our troops was stupidly lost by Zhukov.
                      Yeah ... we bring everything to Zhukov.

                      Tooting.
                      In 1941, we lost at least somehow trained troops. They managed to replace them with number, but with quality ...
                      As the well-known German general wrote, the l / s of many Russian units and formations consisted in 1942 of, in fact, civilians with very weak military training. And the commanders, all the links, did not appear immediately. How the command staff of the Soviet Army was forged is well shown by K. Simonov in his "The Living and the Dead" by the example of Sintsov and other characters.
                      And at the end of the war, German troops, often consisted of yesterday's civilians, boys and old men.
                      It’s only a pity that we had to pay a huge price, but this question is much wider than the commentary on the article about the shitty movie.
                  3. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 10 December 2019 03: 57
                    -1
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    There is a masterpiece film - "The Dawns Here Are Quiet"

                    Myself love this movie yes But it’s hard to come up with a big crap request Five girls with carbines and foreman with a gun against selected saboteurs (16 pieces) is worse than a rapidly falling jack
                  4. brat07
                    brat07 10 December 2019 04: 33
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Quote: raw174
                    Summing up, I’ll say that to wait for documentary accuracy from a feature film ...

                    I agree with you. But ... The film must have the logic of the whole war. And logic, this is our victory. Yes, we know that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation of our troops was stupidly lost by Zhukov. But ... And in the fields near Rzhev our victory was forged. I’m not talking about this film now, I haven’t watched it, I’m talking about everyone shot in the 90s and subsequent years.
                    For all these: "Gu-gI", "Penalty battles", etc., etc., the Minister of Culture is to blame. He finances these crafts. There is a film-masterpiece - "The Dawns Here Are Quiet", why was it necessary to finance the shooting of a film about this, knowing that it would not become a masterpiece? No more topics?
                    And I am always outraged and amused by the attempt to expose the commissars (political officers) and the Specialists as some stupid, cowardly moral freaks. Were there any? Perhaps in the upper echelons, but at the forefront .., you know, a stray bullet, with all that it implies. Writers and directors do not think about this? What are they thinking?
                    Including thanks to such films, "Koli from Urengoy" appears and the MINISTER OF CULTURE is also to blame for this.

                    To you from me for the film - "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" - a huge plus!
                    By the way, also created according to the story of Boris Vasiliev!
                  5. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 12 December 2019 01: 00
                    +2
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Yes, we know that the Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation of our troops is mediocre lost to Zhukov

                    Indeed, the film was filmed by the same "experts" who have a stamp that the generals of the Red Army and commanders are all too often mediocrity, miraculously cleared by the "bloody gebney" on the eve of the war ...
                    So it turns out that the viewer was presented with what he expected ...
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 12 December 2019 10: 43
                      -1
                      Quote: stalkerwalker

                      Indeed, the film was filmed by the same "experts" who have a stamp that the generals of the Red Army and commanders are all too often mediocrity, miraculously cleared by the "bloody gebney" on the eve of the war ...

                      No not like this. I think differently. I think that Zhukov, at that time, was not sufficiently prepared for operations of this magnitude. Is this a rebuke to him? - Not. This is a statement of fact. As you know, commanders are not born, they become in the process.
                      And who was ready for this operation from the commanders at that time? I guess - Tymoshenko.
                      By the way, about the "mediocre". If this were so, the war would not have been won.
                3. 210ox
                  210ox 9 December 2019 12: 03
                  -2
                  But advertise this truly Great Film. The current generation has not watched it. And I’m sure they’ll go.
                4. Eroma
                  Eroma 9 December 2019 20: 08
                  +4
                  You must pass the correct information! Watching a Soviet film, there is always only one thought: our grandfathers are Heroes! soldier And with anti-heroes, too, everything is clear!
                  In modern films, films are confused, then traitors are a victim of circumstances that you need to feel sorry for, not hate! That won is not ALL, the command is definitely not heroes! But how can an army win without commanders? Then our fighters are just cattle in a crowd running on machine guns ... why is such information sent?
                  1. Siberian54
                    Siberian54 11 December 2019 11: 13
                    +3
                    Maybe they’re just preparing to put a monument to Vlasov next to the minis and Pozharsky to save half a million defectors and weak people from hunger in a German captivity ??? Gee !! Gee !! Gee ....
                5. Alexander I
                  Alexander I 13 December 2019 09: 53
                  0
                  Adults and children evaluate the film "T-34" differently, my son really liked the film and the thought he made was that OUR cool Germans piled on.
              2. Incvizitor
                Incvizitor 9 December 2019 14: 27
                +1
                I was pleased with the "Balkan border", though about another war, but everything is on the case.
                1. Grits
                  Grits 11 December 2019 07: 50
                  +2
                  Quote: Incvizitor
                  I was pleased with the "Balkan border", though about another war, but everything is on the case.

                  On the same day, when the "Balkan Frontier" was shown on television, another television channel showed our other film about the same events. It was interesting to compare. The plot is almost the same, but completely different.
              3. BIABIA
                BIABIA 9 December 2019 17: 29
                +7
                "August 44th" has an excellent cast and has done well. A staged based on the book "Moment of Truth" by Bogomolov, read the book in the 90s, long before the film was released. The author himself fought in SMERSH, including, therefore, the book was written competently and the film did not disappoint. And also a great film "We are from the future." Such children need to be shown. I showed my son at the age of 14. Liked.
              4. vladcub
                vladcub 9 December 2019 19: 21
                +2
                Stas, have you watched "The Living and the Dead" for a long time? True, there is not a special animal, but d urachek
              5. Alekseev
                Alekseev 9 December 2019 19: 48
                +3
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Do not touch the war of mediocrity, you do not know how to shoot, you do not know how to play, you do not know how to convey emotion, you do not know how.

                That's right!
                But there are samples. "They fought for the Motherland", "Skylark", "In war, as in war", "Hot Snow" and so on. In these films, after all, too, the war was shown not at all jingoically, but in all its "glory" ... Including the role of special officers. For example, a scene with the legend of the shooting of a tanker from the movie "Hot Snow" ...
                But there are samples, but there is no talent for current choppers from cinematography ... request
                But there is, apparently, a paid liberal order
            2. Gray brother
              Gray brother 9 December 2019 10: 00
              +3
              Quote: Stas157
              A distinctive feature of Russian cinema is that in any modern war film, a special beast is always shown.

              Not in any. But there are few such films.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 9 December 2019 10: 02
                +6
                Quote: Gray Brother
                Not in any. But there are few such films.

                Yes, it is rather an exception to the general rule. And most importantly, there will be no more. Until the customer is changed.
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother 9 December 2019 10: 15
                  +4
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Until the customer is changed.

                  Yes, it doesn’t matter, in fact - they will share the grant with another customer and they will drive the film slag, if only more expensive.
            3. Comrade Michael
              Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 14: 55
              +9
              All this will strike a rebound on the current government ... Undermining faith in the Soviet regime, they even more so undermine faith in their own power ... A person is not a machine where a predictable result comes from pressing certain buttons. A herd of fools can grow it. And loyal people united by the idea is hardly possible with the help of such tricks. Only a crowd of fools and nihilists will they grow up.
          2. Erik
            Erik 9 December 2019 10: 05
            +10
            Capitalism, sir.
            1. victor50
              victor50 9 December 2019 11: 25
              +9
              Quote: Erik
              Capitalism, sir.

              And what, in the United States about their own in the war also removed? To discredit the USSR, to show that the villains led an obedient herd, and due to this, to magnify their worthless creatures.
              1. Erik
                Erik 14 December 2019 10: 10
                0
                Because in a strong and independent "personality" it is easier to cultivate "my house is on the edge". Such people will not fight back, they will be drowned, and they will climb over their heads. And drag them to the bottom. And if it comes up, it’s because it’s "successful", etc.
                In the USA, the same model, but instead of red southerners and all kinds of meks. Fascism, he is, in the present time, of course. Get used to it.
          3. tracer
            tracer 9 December 2019 13: 00
            +10
            I am afraid Volodya that this is the quintessence of the younger generation's vision of the events of those years. And all our comments and indignation are incomprehensible to them and are not important. The lack of patriotic education for the first and second decades has already done its job. Grew up "Ivana kinship not remembering" which horse muzzle Dudya talking about football and male members is closer and more understandable than all our thoughts about that terrible war.
          4. Machito
            Machito 10 December 2019 08: 51
            +2
            - Comrade battalion commander, they brought lunch only half the company.
            -Well, nothing, nothing. Feed after the attack.
            Russian films about the Second World War are not suited by the Soviet.
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 9 December 2019 07: 29
        +13
        I wonder if there were shots of hatred for enemies in the film? pain for your family? fear of losing a bright future that you really believed in?
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 9 December 2019 08: 19
          +4
          Quote: aybolyt678
          I wonder if there were shots of hatred for enemies in the film? pain for your family? fear of losing a bright future that you really believed in?

          There were. For example, terrible shots of how the Germans drove the villagers into the cellars and destroyed them all.
          1. smart ass
            smart ass 9 December 2019 11: 36
            +24
            Guys, if you didn’t watch the 1985 film “Go and See”, then you didn’t see films about the war.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 9 December 2019 12: 23
              +2
              Quote: Clever man
              Guys if you haven't watched a movie "go and see" 1985, then you have not seen films about the war

              this is the best movie about the war, in my opinion.
        2. gaura
          gaura 9 December 2019 08: 51
          -4
          In order not to ask stupid questions and not form some opinions about the film, the film must first be watched.
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 09: 33
            +6
            gaura
            In order not to ask stupid questions and not form some opinions about the film, the film must first be watched.
            Tell me, do you need to completely eat a dish to understand that a dish is rotten or is it enough to sniff it?
            1. gaura
              gaura 9 December 2019 10: 34
              +1
              And how did you smell this movie in this case? According to Skomorokhov’s description? Well, norms, always call someone else's opinion?
              1. Alexander Suvorov
                Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 10: 38
                +7
                gaura
                And how did you smell this movie in this case? According to Skomorokhov’s description? Well, norms, always call someone else's opinion?
                It was enough for me to watch the trailer, Skomorokhov only confirmed my opinion.
                I repeat, I have not expected anything good from our cinema for a long time, and as practice shows, I am doing the right thing.
            2. Neznaika
              Neznaika 9 December 2019 11: 54
              -19
              For some, what Soloviev says on a talk show is enough.
              And to watch for yourself ... Why? Everything is already clear after the words of the master.
          2. Nasrat
            Nasrat 9 December 2019 09: 41
            -10
            Mikhin Petr Alekseevich
            "Gunners, Stalin gave the order!"
            We were dying to win

            A man went through the whole Second World War (including Rzhev) and China freed from the Japanese and all the time on the front, directly in the trenches, the communist ...

            Excerpt from his memoirs:

            We went to Moscow on the 50th anniversary of the Victory. There were four of us in the compartment. All from different cities of Russia and Ukraine. It so happened that we represented various branches of the army: pilot, tanker, infantryman and artilleryman. They wished that there was a sailor among us: this is whom it would be interesting to listen. The boys got up lean, sinewy, jumped onto the second shelf, as young, without a ladder, although everyone was well over seventy. Immediately in the compartment, an atmosphere of equality, front-line brotherhood, trust, mutual understanding and, of course, humor was established - as if it was not a car compartment, but a dugout or dugout .......
            ........
            ..... Night fell, prepared to sleep, and the lights were already turned off, but there was no end to conversations, and in the dark, interested questions and stories continued for a long time.

            - Guys, and of you, by chance, no one commissar? - the attack pilot turned to us. - And then inadvertently offend anyone. - Having made sure that there were only combat commanders in the compartment, the pilot continued: - If anyone really lived in the war, it’s political workers. They didn’t fly, but they received orders. Yes, even higher than us. I remember that for the first sorties the Patriotic War was given to me, and the order of the flying Red Banner was dropped off for the flightless political leader. The only order that no political workers have been awarded in any troops is the commander, “Alexander Nevsky.” Apparently, its founders knew where the political workers were during the battle. [493]

            The tankman entered the conversation:

            - Exactly, and our politicians did not go to battle. He didn’t even have a tank, although the deputy had a combat tank. And then, he is not a tanker, but a partaker. But they were awarded, like you pilots, and even more often.

            - Our more near the kitchens were tearing away. I’m leading a battalion into the attack, and this trinity: political commissar, party organizer, Komsomol - sitting in the rear, it seems to care about food; as if without them the foreman wouldn’t send the kitchen when it gets dark, - the infantryman responded displeasedly about his political workers.

            “And with me,” I joined in the conversation, “there was a cunning political officer.” And harmful. In the course of three years, he never went to the front line. Everything at headquarters, in the kitchen and in the rear: I searched for products for myself or newer uniforms. And he held the party organizer with the Komsomol — young officers — all the time with him. For them, the front line was, as it were, a forbidden zone; they have never visited us either. It can be seen that they had such an indication from above. Only all three knew what to scribble political reports in the regiment. I don’t know what they reported there in them.

            “And in newspapers and books, they are all heroes,” someone grumbled in the dark.

            “So they printed the newspapers, and they knew the books themselves.” They glorified their brother and themselves.

            “What is true is true,” I agreed, “most of the writing people have come out of the commissar's overcoat.”

            - I once wrote to the newspaper, and to me: “Why didn’t you reflect the role of the political instructor?” And what will I reflect? How did he sit in the rear while we fought? But no! Anyway: "Show him a hero, otherwise we won’t print it."

            - And it’s true, why so far no one has written the truth about them? Are you afraid? But now you can tell the truth! [494]

            - Yes, you write the truth! They will all be enriched at once: “We went for the attack for Stalin!” The infantry combatant categorically intervened. - There are many of them, they almost all survived. Count how many battalions died and how many of them. Yes, they all became bosses after the war — only they are in the district and regional committees. As they wrote a lie in the war, they went on the attack shouting “For Comrade Stalin! Go on the attack! ”- so the majority of people still think. But in fact, no one remembered during the attacks about Stalin. There was a short command: “Forward!” Well, sometimes you add obscenities for persuasiveness. Was there time for agitation? Therefore, whoever shouts now that he went on the attack “For Stalin”, I’ll say right away: he took from the newspapers, he didn’t go to any attack, he wasn’t even at the front line. By the way, they didn’t go on the attack, but they ran, and how: if you don’t have time to run to the enemy’s trench, then everything is gone. I know something!

            On this sad note, the conversation died down. One by one, everyone fell asleep. But I could not sleep, alarmed by the theme, in the dark, under the sound of wheels, indulged in memories. I also remembered the political workers of my division. Probably Karpov, my political officer, will come again to meet ...
            1. Alexander Suvorov
              Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 10: 00
              +33
              Again a bunch of puddles! What did you want to say with these "memories"? Does the photo "Combat" mean anything to you? Photographer Max Alpert. "Combat" is one of the most famous photographs of the Great Patriotic War, taken by Soviet photographer Max Alpert. The photo shows junior political officer A. G. Eremenko, raising a soldier in the attack, a few seconds before death.
              My grandfather was both the battery commander and her political instructor, went through two wars from start to finish, had two wounds and a bunch of awards. So stick your vyser back to where you took it out!
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 9 December 2019 10: 24
                -4
                And yet, read the recollection of this communist veteran .... He wrote about Rzhev as well, as he was a direct participant in those events ... And if you think what he wrote is high ... then your attitude to veterans are very obscene ...

                And your hero’s grandfather ... honor and respect to him.

                I don’t understand only - why be rude? The truth about the war is all .. and it must be known!
                1. Alexander Suvorov
                  Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2019 10: 29
                  +14
                  The political leaders were different, as well as the command staff. Among them were cowards, and there were heroes. And it is not necessary to measure everyone one size fits all. And such "memories" are now a dime a dozen on the Internet, they do not inspire confidence in me. Especially when they also come from you!
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 9 December 2019 10: 35
                    -12
                    These memories are not from me ... I called the author of the lines ... in my opinion he had the idea: political officers in 1941 almost all died in the army and there was such an unspoken order to save political workers ...
                    1. Essex62
                      Essex62 9 December 2019 12: 57
                      +22
                      There was no such order, a lie. At 44m! Zampolyt, and a Jew, by the way, my grandfather from the queue closed the mass with his Yak, and then dragged it on himself when both jumped out. Tufta, that political workers didn’t go into battle, is that with the Supreme? A common phrase of the time - the communist has only one privilege to die in battle first.
                      1. gaura
                        gaura 9 December 2019 14: 15
                        -2
                        And in the film it is perfectly shown. A political officer with all runs to the attack and protects the soldier from the special agent. Politruk is the same as everyone else, just as hungry, so shoots. Specialist is another matter.
                  2. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 9 December 2019 10: 44
                    -9
                    By the way, in the same book a couple of cases are described when the author came across specialists ... you need to read this ...
                2. iury.vorgul
                  iury.vorgul 9 December 2019 14: 02
                  +2
                  "Your attitude towards veterans is very obscene." ...
                  Veterans are different ... Here is an example: "A participant in the Great Patriotic War ... was drafted into military service by the Yaroslavl RVC shortly after graduating from high school, on August 6, 1941. According to the recollections of himself ..., he served as a private in a training artillery battalion, then he was enlisted as a cadet of the 2nd Leningrad rifle and machine gun school, evacuated from Leningrad to Glazov.After graduating from the school on February 2, 1942, the lieutenant ... was enlisted in the army.He served as a platoon commander on the Volkhov front as part of the 6th Marine Brigade In August 1942 he was seriously wounded and evacuated to the rear for treatment. Until February 1943 he was in the hospital, after which he was demobilized due to illness. " If you don’t know who you’re talking about, then google, I don’t want to use this name (an obscene word).
                3. Shuttle
                  Shuttle 9 December 2019 15: 02
                  +4
                  Quote: Nasr

                  I don’t understand only - why be rude? The truth about the war is all .. and it must be known!

                  If you really don’t understand, then I’ll explain.
                  Because the truth about war must be true. Not the one that the survivors will tell you about anyway, but the one that the fallen would also tell about. If the episode described by Mr. Mikhin were not his personal private episode (and we trust the gentlemen a priori), then there would be a difference in the losses of political officers (who were exclusively communists) and the rest of the staff. And such statistics are without a doubt our ideological opponents partners would not fail to use it for their own purposes. But they did not do that, either then or now. Because they knew that political instructors were different. There were bastards, probably - it is possible because they are not demigods, but still people. But the front-line soldiers knew that the fate of the political leader was not enviable - to raise the communists into battle by personal example. In the trenches it doesn't work differently. So Mikhin may not have vycep, but you, Mr. "NasRat" - as if he turned out the most, either by accident, or not quite.
              2. evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
                evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 9 December 2019 18: 56
                +2
                A monument to this hero stands not far from the "contact line" in the LPR. This is how two wars met
            2. victor50
              victor50 9 December 2019 11: 38
              +16
              Quote: Nasr
              Exactly, our politicians didn’t go to battle. He didn’t even have a tank, although the deputy had a combat tank. And then, he is not a tanker, but a partaker. But they were awarded, like you pilots, and even more often.

              My grandfather's brother was a tanker, junior political instructor. He died on July 5, 1942 in a hospital from burns and wounds received on the same day in a battle near the Warsaw highway. There is a letter from his home dated July 4, 1942. You don't feel cowardice in it, only hatred of the enemy. Therefore, I cannot believe about the political politicians. There were probably some. And among the soldiers and commanders there were none? And millions of prisoners are exclusively political officers and special officers? You can always pick up memories biasedly. I'm tired of the stamps about bad political instructors and special officers. Just look at the Memorial WBS how many of them are on the lists of the dead. Did you sit in the rear? Political instructor Klochkov too? I agree that films about the war should be patriotic. Otherwise, what's the point in them? Unless they are ordered to discredit everything Soviet.
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 9 December 2019 11: 59
                +1
                You can present these claims to the author of these memoirs, namely:
                Petr Alekseevich Mikhin was born on March 2, 1921 in the village of Bogan, Borisoglebsky District, Voronezh Region. He graduated with honors from the Borisoglebsk Pedagogical School and the A. Herzen Leningrad Pedagogical Institute. In December 1941 he graduated from the short-term course of the 3rd Leningrad Artillery School. He participated in battles with Nazi invaders as part of the 1028th artillery regiment of the 52nd Shumlinsko-Vienna, twice the Red Banner Order of the Suvorov Rifle Division under Rzhev and Stalingrad, on the Kursk, Ukraine and Moldova, in Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Hungary, in Austria and Czechoslovakia, with the Japanese in China. He commanded a platoon, a battery, a division. He was wounded three times and shell-shocked many times. He was awarded the orders of Alexander Nevsky, Red Banner, World War 1 (twice) and 2 degrees, the Red Star, "Badge of Honor"; medals: “For military merits”, “For the liberation of Belgrade”, “For the liberation of Prague”, “For the capture of Budapest”, “For the capture of Vienna”. He ended the war as a captain. After the war, he taught mathematics at the Borisoglebsk Pedagogical School, at the Kursk and Ussuri Suvorov Military Schools. Talented teacher and skilled organizer. For about thirty years he headed the Kursk Regional Institute for Advanced Teachers. Created an effective system of advanced training of teaching staff, brought to the all-Union arena the best practices of Kursk teachers. P.A. Mikhin's lectures on pedagogy, psychology, and mathematics — deep in content and brilliant in manner of presentation — listened with bated breath and were remembered for life. Honorary citizen of the Rzhevsky district of the Tver region and the city of Soledar, Donetsk region of Ukraine. The name of P. A. Mikhin is listed in the Encyclopedia "The Best People of Russia." Participant of the Victory Parade in Moscow in 2005. He has published more than 40 brochures, scientific articles, about 60 stories and three books of memoirs about the Great Patriotic War.
                1. 29dest
                  29dest 10 December 2019 23: 15
                  -3
                  Why did he shoot himself so handsome in the 90s with a hunting rifle? Maybe from happiness that suddenly after the collapse of the USSR fell over? Anti-adviser - as is.
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 11 December 2019 10: 58
                    0
                    Mikhin Petr Alekseevich - participant of the Victory Parade in Moscow 2005 - what kind of gun in the 90s are we talking about ??? wassat fool

                    You would have read his memories of the war, maybe you would have gone for a smart one ...
                2. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 11 December 2019 13: 57
                  +1
                  Quote: Nasr
                  You can present these claims to the author of these memoirs, namely

                  no no no, you don’t translate arrows on a veteran! am that moral ugliness that the author of vyser "Rzhev" is trying to pass off as "the memories of a front-line soldier" is 90% a sick fantasy of the director and 10% a real story. this is a modern trick of liberal Russophobic cinema - a real story is taken and smeared with feces ... ah! Yes! and it also adds that it was filmed based on real events, of course laughing Well, so that the layman has the illusion of documentary wink vivid examples are "Moving Up", "Salyut-7", the series "Chernobyl" and now also "Rzhev".
                  PS
                  by the way, since the data on the comrade found, you can read what the comrade wrote ... for example, "The artillerymen, Stalin gave the order" wink
                  1. MelkorAintGood
                    MelkorAintGood 13 December 2019 17: 56
                    +1
                    And what is bad about Chernobyl? Let me remind you that the reactor at Unit 4 exploded due to its design flaws, which were hushed up before the accident for political and ideological reasons, and after the accident, the personnel who did everything according to the INSTRUCTIONS were made some hellish ignoramuses and guilty ones. It's even funny to say that the reactor exploded from the stop button.
                    And what the series lied about? Yes, there were tendentious scenes with naked miners, grandfathers and drunken soldiers .. but essentially everything is correct: the Soviet leadership was to blame for the accident, not Woodpeckers with his guys.
                    1. Sanichsan
                      Sanichsan 13 December 2019 18: 09
                      0
                      Quote: MelkorAintGood
                      Why is Chernobyl bad?

                      amount of lies. from the first shots to the finale. I note that a rather vile lie.
                      Quote: MelkorAintGood
                      I recall that the reactor at block 4 exploded due to its design flaws, which were hushed up before the accident for political and ideological reasons

                      the reactor exploded due to a combination of circumstances, the probability of which was estimated as so low that this could hardly happen, but it did happen.
                      Quote: MelkorAintGood
                      but essentially everything is correct: the Soviet leadership is to blame for the accident, and not the Woodpeckers with his guys.

                      what is right? nonsense of the author of the film about some confession of the chief designer and a certain sixth cassette with revelations? or then what senility portray a Soviet scientist? or shift supervisor who yells at all? or idiotic court scene? these are the same fickles that are coated with real events ... did you eat them? Congratulations! bully
                      be so kind as to exert yourself and let us know what relation the country's leadership has to the event, the probability of which Soviet scientists rated as almost impossible. yes
                      1. MelkorAintGood
                        MelkorAintGood 13 December 2019 18: 27
                        +1
                        Coincidence ?! Low probability ?! Darling, you would bother to read the match at least about the state of affairs in the atomic energy of the USSR of the late 70s. The end effect (namely, it was the cause of the Chernobyl explosion) was known since the accident at the Leningrad NPP in 1975! 1975! Do I need to say the date when the design of the rods was brought to normal? Only after the Chernobyl accident. That's a coincidence, right?
                        And in general, I advise you to read the IAEA report INSAG-7, it was clearly written there a long time ago that the reactor was nuclear hazardous.
                      2. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 9 January 2020 14: 30
                        -1
                        Quote: MelkorAintGood
                        Coincidence ?! Low probability ?! Darling, you would bother to read the match at least about the state of affairs in the atomic energy of the USSR of the late 70s.

                        alo garage! laughing even in INSAG-7, as well as in the report of the 1986 commission, it is written that the accident occurred due to the fault of personnel due to non-compliance with the regulations.
                        take seriously the nonsense composed in 1991 can only be moral. yes
                        Quote: MelkorAintGood
                        And in general, I advise you to read the IAEA report INSAG-7, it was clearly written there a long time ago that the reactor was nuclear hazardous.

                        in in. read it. out of 5 reasons, only 1 indicates that the reactor had a too low level of "foolproof". everything else is questions to the staff.

                        your pathetic attempts to pull an owl on a globe look ridiculous. the government’s fault in the accident is exactly zero. but if you need examples of a nuclear catastrophe due to corruption and government, then no problem wink Fukushima, which was built in a seismic zone according to the usual design and still shits with its radioactive waste into the ocean. that's where the campaign really sawed money under the pretext "and so it will do" yes
              2. Nasrat
                Nasrat 9 December 2019 12: 29
                +3
                The worst of all these remake films, which I don’t watch, is that they stopped reading documents, eyewitnesses and direct participants in historical events ... They hit the flare more - flare, both one way and the other ... both trends are dangerous because they distort real events ...
                1. Essex62
                  Essex62 9 December 2019 13: 07
                  +7
                  About the "first side", where they hit, I understand. There is propaganda for the jungle society and the perversion of Soviet reality is present. But on the contrary, somehow I did not notice.
                  In general, judging by the controversy on our resource, mattresses are handsome. Cracked the monolith with fucking pluralism. There’s nothing good about it, essentially the Cold Civil War.
            3. Olgovich
              Olgovich 9 December 2019 12: 53
              -8
              Quote: Nasr
              Mikhin Petr Alekseevich
              "Gunners, Stalin gave the order!"
              We were dying to win

              One from the best books about WWII.

              Frankly, honestly, talented, unbiased, in a simple language reflects what came up with the author-front-line soldier and around him

              As well as the story of the front-line writer Kondratiev, a participant in the battles near Rzhev.

              As well as the works of the great Russian writer, front-line soldier Viktor Avstafiev "Cursed and Killed", "Merry Soldier", etc.

              But they were published only after 1990, because before that they simply would not have been let through by any censorship.

              The evidence collected today from the front-line soldiers by A. Drabkin in the framework of the "I Remember!" Project is very valuable.
            4. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 13: 06
              -6
              My grandfather, pilot, political workers called ostriches:
              The bird is big, important, not flying.
              He yells loudly, and just a little - his head in the sand: all the victories were attributed to a "leading role", but the regiment commander and the squadron commander were blamed for all the defeats. My grandfather did not say a single bad word about the special officers.
              1. Comrade Michael
                Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 15: 43
                0
                Your grandfather is a pilot, and my grandfathers in the infantry plowed the ground in the war in a war .... That's the difference.
            5. Comrade Michael
              Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 15: 41
              +3
              The political officers laid down their heads for their homeland. And you just trash their memory from a warm armchair or sofa. You are warm and you are alive. Your words have neither weight nor price. You were weighed and considered, and found you too easy .... This is a vile position.
            6. Siberian54
              Siberian54 11 December 2019 11: 36
              0
              Do not tell me, in what year and in what magazine was it published? My aunt's husband from 41 to Budapest at the front "Vanka Makhra" (then the third time was a hospital and VICTORY) because of drunkenness sometimes (he did not like at all, like all the neighbors, war veterans, you won’t believe how in a joke a special officer is a disabled major, a disabled captain-regimental intelligence , lieutenant submariner - barotrauma and and uncle Lesha - foreman - two severe and concussion) told me and what I remember, a ten-year-old boy, so that the infantry really went on the attack "with a roar for the homeland and Stalin and instead of hurray with the matyugas" as he said - it is easier to stand up with a mat.
          3. igordok
            igordok 9 December 2019 10: 15
            +5
            Quote: gaura
            the movie needs to be watched first.

            Look, officially - we pay for the possible shit with our money. By encouraging them. Watching unofficially, it is illegal. And the "pirated" version of the film does not appear immediately.
            Therefore, I prefer to "listen" first. Then make a conclusion to look officially or unofficially. Of the new films, I only watched Panfilov's 28 officially.
            1. gaura
              gaura 9 December 2019 10: 29
              -19
              Yeah, a decent position "I didn't look, but I don't approve." Listen, tovarischi will teach the Motherland to love, and everything that does not fit into their picture will be called shit, like tovarisch above
      3. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 9 December 2019 08: 34
        +20
        Quote: Civil
        A complete set of "Jewish political instructor", "special beast", a convict, didn't the girl run around the front line in a miniskirt and was all painted? Maybe at least for films about the Second World War, return the commission for screening the scripts.

        They took off, reported, how they sawed many achrinillions and forgot, although they managed to throw shit in our past.
        Thanks to Roman for the review, I won’t begin to watch this film, why bother my nerves.
        But this low-budget video, from which there is a lump in my throat, I recommend to everyone to watch, it costs thousands of similar movie-watchers!
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 9 December 2019 10: 12
          +6
          In our age of symbols, from Rzhev they made a symbol of the stupidity of command and the senselessness of losses. The film, as I understand it, confirms this trend. Therefore, he is so outraged. A film is perhaps part of an information virus that denigrates our past. The film itself was not watched. The main question was whether there was heroism, motivation for it, or only fear of punishment?
      4. 1536
        1536 9 December 2019 12: 09
        +9
        It is necessary to declare a moratorium on writing scripts and filming films about the Great Patriotic War!
        The generation of winners is leaving forever. The last year of the call to war is 1927. Today the remaining soldiers of the Second World War are 92 years old (!). Who can advise on the historical truth, on morality and ethics that were during the Great Patriotic War, some modern scriptwriters, producers, directors and actors? There is practically no one to do it. And even if there are such, will young people sacredly eliminate all the flaws, inaccuracies or outright lies revealed by the consultants? And the "veterans" and "researchers", as a result of whose work they unveil monuments to fascists in our land or send our youth to the Bundestag to bow, are hardly capable of inventing anything other than libelous and "Shakespearean" passions, transferred, in their opinion, to Russian land in 1941. So it turns out that you don't shoot, but "movies and the Germans" come out.
        One "our outstanding" writer said that he could not wait to write and publish a biography of the traitor-general Vlasov in the series "Life of Remarkable People". So, as long as people hawala, it will be so.
      5. lucul
        lucul 9 December 2019 12: 44
        -1
        A complete set of "Jewish political instructor", "special beast",

        Tell us another movie about the war, where is there another Jewish political instructor?
        They were always shown only by ethnic Russians, always. Although this is far from the case.
        1. Doctor Evil
          Doctor Evil 9 December 2019 15: 41
          +1
          Quote: lucul
          A complete set of "Jewish political instructor", "special beast",

          Tell us another movie about the war, where is there another Jewish political instructor?
          They were always shown only by ethnic Russians, always. Although this is far from the case.

          You are welcome. The film "Ours" 2004. Konstantin Khabensky as the Jewish Commissar.
        2. Nehist
          Nehist 10 December 2019 07: 03
          0
          Brest Fortress. There you and the commissar and the Jew
      6. Svarog
        Svarog 9 December 2019 13: 50
        +11
        If the task at the state level is simply to ruin everything Soviet, to decommunize the Soviet legacy, then maybe just say so about it? How honestly and openly they did it in Ukraine.

        While reading the text, where pain was felt mixed with sarcasm, it was spinning in my head .. so the order comes from the state .. But we didn’t do anything except the galoshes in the USSR .. the Supreme himself said .. But it’s still scary to tell them right now, the electorate finally stupefied, here in 10-15 years, they’ll do what they want ..
        In general, modern war films are becoming more and more like American ones, which personally annoys me wildly ..
      7. vladcub
        vladcub 9 December 2019 19: 13
        +3
        Civilian, in general, political instructors and special officers were different. Read Simonov "The Living and the Dead", Stadnyuk "The Man with the Weapon", Drabkin "I Commanded a Battalion"
      8. Alien From
        Alien From 10 December 2019 12: 22
        +2
        The commission is certainly needed! Cinema is clouding my brain, I prefer to read! Favorite trilogy, Alive and Dead!
      9. SASHA OLD
        SASHA OLD 10 December 2019 12: 53
        +2
        Quote: Civil
        A complete set of "Jewish political instructor", "special beast", a convict, didn't the girl run around the front line in a miniskirt and was all painted? Maybe at least for films about the Second World War, return the commission for screening the scripts.

        the film should have been called not "Rzhev"
        and "LZHEV"
      10. Nick
        Nick 10 December 2019 14: 17
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        Maybe at least for films about the Second World War return the commission for checking scripts.
        good
        At least those films that are shot on budget money, definitely!
      11. your1970
        your1970 10 December 2019 18: 59
        +2
        Quote: Civil
        Maybe at least for films about the Second World War return the commission for checking scripts.

        "The only thing I would like to say about the part of the film remaining from the stupidity and meanness of the commanders is: Lord, where are the consultants? Where are the real military men who could tell" how it happened before. " are real officers with real combat experience! "- I will answer both questions at once.
        At the moment we have NO military consultants - participating in hostilities involving tanks, aircraft and artillery with BOTH parties. There were no such wars, thank God the USSR / RF after the Second World War, there wasn’t ...
        That is why they were true OUR films about the war - there are screenwriters / directors / actors on the one hand and spectators on the other - all the time were in that war ...
        And this is one of the reasons that films about the Second World War where it was crap then - the people did not like and did not especially look ....
      12. Grits
        Grits 11 December 2019 05: 50
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        A complete set of "Jewish political instructor", "special beast", a convict, didn't the girl run around the front line in a miniskirt and was all painted?

        But such a girl ran beautifully in the film "Stalingrad". I remember how I was eager to see this film and how then I spat.
    2. Reklastik
      Reklastik 9 December 2019 07: 08
      +14
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I read the memoirs of Field Marshal Model about the battles of Rzhev ...

      - He shot himself in 1945 ....
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 9 December 2019 08: 54
        0
        - He shot himself in 1945 ....

        Yes you are right ...

        read about him from these sources ...

        https://biography.wikireading.ru/182493

        I beat Marshal Zhukov. Rzhevsky nightmare
        Grossman horst
    3. Yrec
      Yrec 9 December 2019 09: 05
      +6
      It would not be bad for the author of the article to read the book "Vanka - Company". Everything is served there first-hand. When I read, my hair stood on end, although I'm not faint of heart. To watch or not to watch "Rzhev" has not yet decided.
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 9 December 2019 09: 32
        +8
        Yuri. Your hair stood on end. And what's next. Do you think that if you show horrors, then people will become better? Only compassion for the dead makes a person cleaner. I am against showing horrors in war, and in our lives. This does not make a person human. We often show morgues in detective stories. But for some reason there is no desire to visit such establishments.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 9 December 2019 12: 24
          +4
          Quote: nikvic46
          I am against the display of horrors in the war, and in our lives.

          if this horror would have been justified ... I think the soldiers died in vain, otherwise Babi Yar and Treblinka would have been made from Moscow.
      2. Blue fox
        Blue fox 9 December 2019 10: 18
        +6
        Quote: Yrec
        It would not be bad for the author of the article to read the book "Vanka - Company". Everything is served there first-hand.

        An excellent example, only you selectively use it somehow. In addition to the "standard" for each front-line soldier, Shumilin has anger at those who are 500 meters, a kilometer further from the 1st trench (by the way, is it always justified?) Or, for example, at the orderlies (were they all - "Orderlies in sanvzvod and in sanrot are mainly hook-nosed. You can’t spill these under the gun for the wounded! What to hide! Any soldier will confirm this. All this brethren with their lips turned up, arriving at the front, did not fall into the rifle companies... "(c)?) there are also facts of large losses in front of the village of Maryino, when companies shot anti-aircraft guns from a village on a hill (a very bloody episode) in the field (a very bloody episode), however, before the massacre near Maryino, the village of Ignatovo was captured without loss and the rear convoy was destroyed and a trophy was taken (by the way, by order and in accordance with the plan of the higher command).
        I read Shumilin, read with a map and combat reports from the divisions that participated in the battles, much of his memoirs (keyword) is true, subjective truth, but much of what the author writes about as a fluke is actually a well-considered decision of the commanders, in addition , the author for some reason misses examples of excellent operations, and, for example, the story of a Finnish saboteur who at night came to Russian positions from the Germans at the end of the summer of 1943 under Dukhovschina is very unusual.
        Memoirs themselves were written in many ways already in the 80s from the words of the author by his relatives, and there are years, for example, such"Sixteen" Ishaks "in wartime, this is, consider, a whole air division. And two" Messers "shot them down, in order, jokingly. I wonder what the official reports say about this division?" (c) in the autumn of 1943 there was not, this memory, for the sake of interest, was checked by domestic aviation historians.
        But, I do not want to denigrate the memories of veterans, and I do not have the full competence, but there are enough available to choose the main thing and make a decent movie, and not these pseudo-patriotic attempts with low-lying lies. Shumilin, for example, has great memories of how he practiced mounted fire from easel machine guns from a closed position - this is an ideal scene for any film, moreover, intertwined with a delicate calculation of the moral instability of the calculation of the given technical training.
      3. victor50
        victor50 9 December 2019 11: 47
        +6
        Quote: Yrec
        It would not be bad for the author of the article to read the book "Vanka - Company Officer". Everything is served there first-hand. When I read, my hair stood on end, although I'm not faint of heart.

        Yes, it is useful for everyone to read it. But I got the impression that the author of "Vanka" fought alone. And all around were cowards. There are also obvious mistakes and excesses, based, apparently, on personal attitudes towards certain categories of fighters. In general, the impression was that the author's relatives contributed a lot to the book. Well, and the blatant ignorance of those who wrote.
    4. Neznaika
      Neznaika 9 December 2019 12: 38
      -10
      Here it hooked:
      "Where are the real military men, who used to be able to tell" how it was. "
      And who can learn, “how was it?” Comrade Zhukov’s? So for some reason Comrade Zhukov is keeping quiet about Rzhev. Although he was directly involved in the planning and command of operations under Rzhev. Congenital modesty, apparently, does not allow to speak. Although he thought about the rest and reflected on at least two volumes.
      Where else to find out? In the archives? Thought is good. But unrealizable. For closed archives from the eyes of the Russian for some reason. If the information is issued, then it is strictly dosed and only at the highest resolution. And, yes, only the one you need.
      Only Vicki, who was shattered by Roskomnadzor, remained. But she also admits: it is impossible to name the Rzhev slaughter otherwise than a bloody meat grinder.
      And the author’s hysteria is understandable.
      If something does not fit into the framework of cheers-patriotism - these are the machinations of liberals, mattresses, Judeo-masons, Judeo-Bandera and further on the list.
      A Soviet soldier could not die without shouting "For Stalin!"
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 9 December 2019 15: 46
        +4
        Quote: Neznaika
        Where else to find out? In the archives? Thought is good. But unrealizable. For closed archives from the eyes of the Russian for some reason. E

        The archives are just open. The problem is different - the primary information is often incomplete, fragmented and framed so that you can break your eyes. Several options for writing the same locality are seeds. After all, there are two completely different descriptions of the same battle - one from the infantry, the other from the tankers: the tankers have no mention of the infantry, the infantry - the tankers. smile
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 9 December 2019 15: 49
          +2
          of the same battle - one from the infantry, the other from the tankers: the tankers have no mention of the infantry, the infantry - the tankers
          ,, only pilots remain winkedwho did not see the one and the other.
    5. sailor roman
      sailor roman 9 December 2019 13: 55
      +1
      According to the statistical study of the historian G. Krivosheev “Russia and the USSR in the wars of the XX century”, the irretrievable losses of the Soviet army during the Battle of Rzhev in 1942-1943 amounted to 605 984 people. It was not possible to find exact data on the losses of the German side, indirect data indicate the loss of about 250 thousand people.
    6. Den717
      Den717 9 December 2019 16: 35
      0
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I read the memoirs of Field Marshal Model about the battles of Rzhev ... he skillfully used the miscalculations of our command ... it was bitter to read it.

      The Model that fought against us near Rzhev as army commander shot himself on April 21, 1945. Of course, maybe he wrote his memoirs in between battles? Or maybe you read another Model? Not a marshal? If not difficult, throw a reference to the memoirs .... wassat
    7. Astra wild
      Astra wild 9 December 2019 18: 56
      +2
      I watched Wikipedia: Field Marshal Walter Model shot himself on April 21, 1945. Probably, you mixed up the name Manstein and Model?
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 10 December 2019 16: 25
        0
        Could find his "memoirs" in an abandoned "NUZHNIK" in Germany!
        Waiting for 7 warnings or EXCEPTIONS ...
    8. Victorio
      Victorio 12 December 2019 22: 45
      0
      historian Isaev about the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIOXQ3N9ebY
  2. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 9 December 2019 06: 13
    +34
    "Rzhev". Well, who paid it?

    And who paid for "Stalingrad"?
    If films about the Second World War of the Soviet period were designed to awaken respect for people who, at the cost of their own lives, defeated this fascist scum, then modern Russian "miscarriages" are designed to arouse hatred for the Soviet period of our country's history. As a last resort, to awaken disgust for involvement with her ...
    1. DAC scratch
      DAC scratch 9 December 2019 09: 38
      +7
      the one who went to the Yeltsin center, whose name can not be called
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 9 December 2019 14: 08
        +4
        Quote: DAC scratch
        the one who went to the Yeltsin center, whose name can not be called

        Are you talking about Tsap Tsarap?
        1. DAC scratch
          DAC scratch 9 December 2019 14: 10
          -2
          only shh, otherwise he will also clap you lol lol
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Ezekiel
        Ezekiel 9 December 2019 21: 24
        0
        Well of course ... Yeltsin center! fellow
        Who would have thought what else could torment a pensioner in the wild ...
        I jumped completely off the track ...
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 06: 15
    +4
    Look at the movie or what? I’m not going to bring money for it, I’m watching the whole thing too. But if the author of the article praises the battle scenes, then suddenly nothing? Although for the rest of the crap, something that requires intelligence and attention can work out fine, it's not clear.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 06: 21
      +15
      I watched the video, it's such a mess, I don't even have a desire to look at the battle with one eye, I'll better review "Panfilov's 28", there are only a few strained moments.
    2. YOUR
      YOUR 9 December 2019 08: 12
      +16
      There are trailers on the net. In the search engine, type the trailer Rzhev and see.
      I do not like films about the war made at the present time.
      The actors ’uniforms are not wrinkled, their faces are reminded, not war, but casting on a brutal warrior. Saturation with special effects is somehow implausible. A shell exploded around a funnel of about 30 people. The T-34 film, so practically friendship and chewing gum between enemies, and former prisoners of a concentration camp with such frigging hars. Phew. And they constantly poke what bad commanders, specialists and communists. Sit out in the rear and on the phone drive almost unarmed soldiers to machine guns. Artillery is absent as a class. Although you read documentary, the main losses of the Germans especially in the initial period of the war, precisely from artillery fire.
      Of course I will watch the film. As the T-34 watched, as 28 Panfilov’s watched. For 15-20 minutes at a time no more, but watched until the end.
  4. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 9 December 2019 06: 18
    +15
    I’ll watch the film anyway, so as not to be unfounded.
    But according to the fact that the Ministry of Culture allocates money for complete rubbish, here I agree with Roman.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 9 December 2019 06: 43
      +4
      Well, how can the Ministry of Culture influence the situation? they come to claim that the film is about the Second World War. maybe a script and some source code. what happens, who can know? the director is already steering there. Yes, and at the installation they can throw a bunch of quality material. I did not look too and I will not begin to evaluate. but we must remember what is generally fighting for Rzhev. it was a fight for almost every bump. in the mud and trenches. constantly. positional warfare in all its trench truths. there are many pictures of both ours and German from there. in order to understand the atmosphere they must be seen and everything will become clear. remember the bloody Mars. There is an article on this operation from 17 years.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 9 December 2019 08: 18
        +10
        Quote: carstorm 11
        what happens, who can know?

        Have you seen the movie "Die Daddy"? And the film was shot with the support of the Ministry of Culture. Yes, for this it is necessary to plant!
      2. Gray brother
        Gray brother 9 December 2019 10: 04
        +2
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Well, how can the Ministry of Culture influence the situation?

        He can show the figurine to the figurine instead of financing the next time, or even demand a refund - even if he pays his whole life.
        But this will not happen.
        “Rzhev is one of the most tragic, cruel and unjustly forgotten pages in the history of the Great World War,” Medinsky said.

        He stressed that this battle has very few analogues in world history and played a great role in the victory, as the Soviet soldiers did not allow the German invaders to transfer reserves to Stalingrad.

        Medinsky also recalled that a memorial complex is being created in the Tver region, which will be erected near Rzhev, where more than 1942 thousand Soviet soldiers died in 1943-600.

        “The fact that on the eve of the 75th anniversary of the Victory we had a film about Rzhev is very symbolic. This film is a tribute to the memory. With all my heart I want to thank the creators, everyone who took part in the filming - those who invested their energy, soul, in the creation of this movie, ”the minister added.
  5. Olegater
    Olegater 9 December 2019 06: 33
    +17
    Good morning DEAR forum users!

    Respect for the truth from me again to the author of the article. The latest movie shit from these ..... figures causes rejection and rejection. We learned to rip off only computer shows from the West. They don't have enough brains to make a normal film. There is no sense, much less essence, in these modern tapes. Correctly the author says that these managers are far from kin to Ozerov with his masterpiece about the Great Patriotic War. And this is being done purposefully, one day we will see about the "legendary Vlasov and Mannerheim" and that the USSR attacked poor Nazi Germany. Although our Great Patriotic War gives many topics for patriotic tapes to educate a generation in good people and children who love their Motherland. What for? But no, there is a fooling and defiling of History.
  6. Slavutich
    Slavutich 9 December 2019 07: 03
    0
    In general, if in general, the film is a classic collection of stamps of anti-Soviet and Russophobic propaganda. In the best traditions of our time.

    But now is it different?
  7. Slavutich
    Slavutich 9 December 2019 07: 04
    +3
    The author is well done, he laid out everything clearly and on the shelves!
    On all topics stamps walked.
  8. Slavutich
    Slavutich 9 December 2019 07: 05
    +5
    These films about the war have already gotten, with our money they shoot complete nonsense: it is better in no way than that.
  9. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 9 December 2019 07: 15
    +11
    It is difficult to predict what the reaction of the audience will be. Whatever it is, I am proud that we did it. No one has yet touched on the topic of Rzhev in feature films. ”I am not a supporter of total censorship, but under the USSR, for some reason I didn’t like the film, it was put on the shelf until better times, and my personal opinion should still be a goskino commission consisting of independent professionals .
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 9 December 2019 07: 56
      +9
      Ravil, I completely agree with you. But with some addition: such a commission should evaluate the scenario so as not to spend any time or money later. After all, even according to the scenario, you can determine what happens
    2. Essex62
      Essex62 9 December 2019 11: 19
      +2
      Where cash is ruled, the independence and objectivity of professionals is very conditional. The creation of these films is an order of the bargaining power. Moreover, an attempt to dock not docked - to pile substances on the Soviet way of life and find braces leads to such vile vyseurs. I think this will soon stop, the older generation of politicians and the population will leave, and young people educated in bourgeois society will be held together by other "heroic" deeds. Victory in the Second World War will be forgotten, eradicated from the mass consciousness as unnecessary. Profit and sweet life, what kind of Victory? Why are they a huckster? Moreover, the victory was the Soviet over capitalism.
    3. Essex62
      Essex62 9 December 2019 11: 19
      0
      Where cash is ruled, the independence and objectivity of professionals is very conditional. The creation of these films is an order of the bargaining power. Moreover, an attempt to dock not docked - to pile substances on the Soviet way of life and find braces leads to such vile vyseurs. I think this will soon stop, the older generation of politicians and the population will leave, and young people educated in bourgeois society will be held together by other "heroic" deeds. Victory in the Second World War will be forgotten, eradicated from the mass consciousness as unnecessary. Profit and sweet life, what kind of Victory? Why are they a huckster? Moreover, the victory was the Soviet over capitalism.
    4. Essex62
      Essex62 9 December 2019 11: 19
      -1
      Where cash is ruled, the independence and objectivity of professionals is very conditional. The creation of these films is an order of the bargaining power. Moreover, an attempt to dock not docked - to pile substances on the Soviet way of life and find braces leads to such vile vyseurs. I think this will soon stop, the older generation of politicians and the population will leave, and young people educated in bourgeois society will be held together by other "heroic" deeds. Victory in the Second World War will be forgotten, eradicated from the mass consciousness as unnecessary. Profit and sweet life, what kind of Victory? Why are they a huckster? Moreover, the victory was the Soviet over capitalism.
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 9 December 2019 07: 19
    +9
    There are very scary events in our history, the Second World War is the worst and will never be forgotten.
    I will not argue about the truth and truth and reliability in this "description" of those events.
    We will remember everything and everyone !!! Notch for memory!
    Glory to the fallen for OUR MOTHERLAND! Rest in peace.
  11. Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 9 December 2019 07: 29
    +5
    Rzhev. So who paid for it? Paid from the budget of the Russian Federation, the film script probably "won" the competition in the Ministry of Culture. The reason for "winning the competition" was not the propaganda of the feat of the Soviet people during the Second World War, but the payback of the film. True or not the truth that will be displayed in the film is not important, it is the PROFIT that someone will receive for the film ... Do you know such a "Hollywood" approach, though without American patriotism, saving the whole world, tolerance for sexual minorities and mandatory percentages of roles for blacks (African Americans).
    I’m wondering, is Mr. Putin watching our movies like his “colleagues in the shop”, comrades Stalin and Brezhnev?
    1. lucul
      lucul 9 December 2019 12: 52
      +5
      I’m wondering, is Mr. Putin watching our movies like his “colleagues in the shop”, comrades Stalin and Brezhnev?

      Comrade Putin is quite watching films. And about the film "Legend number 17" - he said, I quote - "This is the kind of movie we need."
  12. nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 December 2019 07: 36
    +5
    Once I came across an interesting idea: "The number of victims is only justified when the work is made with clean hands." From the stories of the front-line soldiers, I realized that in war everything is subordinated to the mastery of a difficult military craft. Those who had not previously touched There are no consultants who have experienced all this on themselves.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 9 December 2019 08: 57
      +5
      Quote: nikvic46
      There were no consultants who experienced all this on themselves.

      Not therefore, and there are many memoirs of front-line soldiers ...

      Cinema is one of the elements of ideological power. Today, the ideology of the victorious bourgeois party, United Russia, is being put into practice. For them, in whom the sun rises in the West, the revival of Soviet man’s self-awareness is vitally unacceptable.

      I’m practically not watching remodelers. All of them are designed for the younger generation, developing in them a persistent aversion to Soviet power, to Stalin.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 9 December 2019 10: 50
        +3
        Boris, memoirs, memoirs, too, are different. It is one thing if it is the recollections of a person who directly fought on the front line and another when the memoir is written by a person who was not at the front line.
        For me, the former are more authoritative. Very good with the Dragon: "I fought"
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 9 December 2019 10: 58
          0
          Quote: vladcub
          It is one thing if it is the recollections of a person who directly fought on the front line and another when the memoir is written by a person who was not at the front line.

          This is true. The war from the trench and the war from the cabinet (from the headquarters) are seen in different ways. These are different levels of perception and they are interesting to me both.

          Memoirs are the memories of the direct participants in the events taking place with them. Everything else is not a memoir.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 9 December 2019 11: 26
      +7
      The best films about the Second World War were made by people who fought or saw a war.
      Remember the Films: "Liberation", "Father of a Soldier", "Only" old men "go into battle.
      When "28 Panfilov's men" appeared on YouTube, I showed it to my late aunt, she joined the medical battalion as a teenager and until it was disbanded she was with them, and to my mother, a participant in the Second World War, they both said that the movie was good, but a fairy tale. In what they saw her, I do not know. Aunt unconditionally believed in the film: "Hot Snow" and was still looking for acquaintances there, and for mom the best film: "Soldier's Father". These films were shot by people who directly saw the war.
      1. Voyager
        Voyager 9 December 2019 11: 58
        +2
        One should sometimes rely on perceptual features. Panfilov’s shot more dynamically, by modern standards, and just differently. It is difficult for older generations to perceive impartially something new against the background of their own standards. (If anything, I do not do this way for a discount for outright crap, which is now crammed with movie theaters)
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 9 December 2019 16: 53
        +1
        Quote: vladcub
        The best films about the Second World War were made by people who fought or saw a war.

        Because the actors play based on their experience. Actors of Soviet cinema fought back in that war - so they had something to rely on, playing their roles. And the current ... well, where did they get experience?
        В damned soulless hollywoodWhen Stone started filming his "Platoon", he drove the actors to the KMB to the Vietnam veteran Dale Day. And this marine with feeling, really, with arrangement for two weeks mocked the cast in the jungle of the Philippines, giving them "the life of an ordinary platoon in Vietnam outside the base." Two weeks later, the actors were already imbued with spirit of nama.
        In the early days, the only things the actors thought about were rhetorical questions: “Can I take it out?”, “Will I have time to go to the toilet after I dig this hole?”, “Can I eat today?”, “Where to go from these fucking ants ?!” and “Will I even take a step with seventy pounds of weight behind my back?” But as soon as they discovered - and I knew that this would happen - that they could do much more, like both physically and morally, at that very moment, they began to accumulate the emotional experience necessary for the role. After a week of this struggle for survival, they understood what the life of the infantryman looked like. And it was these trials that helped them convey on screen the horror of hostilities that you saw in movie theaters. After two weeks spent side by side with them, I probably would go to battle with them
    3. Vitaly Tsymbal
      Vitaly Tsymbal 9 December 2019 21: 56
      +1
      One day I came across an interesting idea: "The number of victims is only justified when the work is done with clean hands."

      I thought so too .... until the question arose: who will take home the body of a dead soldier ... my first "load 200" was private Sergei Viktorovich Gromovoy - 585 oetr - died of typhus on November 15, 1982 Afghan, Shindand. HIS KINGDOM IS IN HEAVEN .. I - the political officer of the company, could not - myself escort him to his homeland, was in the intensive care unit of the Shindand hospital after "visiting" the Kandahar greenery. The sergeant major, the senior warrant officer Venya Shutov sent home - he washed, put on a scarce parade, put a zinc coffin ... in general, everything was in Orthodox traditions (as we understood at that time). I loaded it into the "Black Tulip," and sent a compatriot from the rank and file to accompany him. The officers and warrant officers of the company at that moment were on the road or in hospitals ... the losses "are justified with clean hands" - I will not argue, my loss is on my conscience, on my officer's honor - I WAS NOT REMOVED.
  13. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 9 December 2019 07: 36
    +5
    Thanks. I haven’t watched the film yet, but I understood what to expect. Another little collapse of hopes ... Sorry.
    I love war movies. And I look, almost, everything. But more and more often I notice that in recent years our cinematography (especially) has been issuing portions of near-gas gas (like Vasya Oblomov’s) ....
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 09: 15
      -8
      It is recommended to watch, at least on torrents.
      Well, that would make up an opinion.
      This must be done in all cases.
      "Let's argue about the taste of oranges with those who ate them."
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 9 December 2019 09: 18
        0
        That's what I do ... Probably, only the scandalous "holiday" did not master. I looked for about fifteen minutes and realized that I didn't understand humor ...
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 09: 19
          0
          I even had to "Bitter!" overpower in order to draw the right conclusions.
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 9 December 2019 09: 22
            0
            He also looked, but, along with his wife, at her request. She read something on the Internet there. Also UG ... And this is not my "profile" laughing I love battle films, especially on a historical basis ...
            1. Mestny
              Mestny 9 December 2019 10: 17
              -19
              I sometimes go to the site of the famous Goblin. It is very curious to observe the flowering reserve of communist reenactors.
              Naturally, there they fiercely and amicably, as it should be for sectarians, watering Russian cinema, and all indiscriminately. (they generally watered everything Russian, opposing the "beautiful USSR").
              And only the only film that the head of the sect and his assistants personally praises is the film "Bitter!"
              A unique case. Clear business, it was necessary to look.
              The result of the scan is a collection of the well-known brown substance below the belt. More Russophobic crafts did not have to see. According to the intensity of irrigation, simply Russian people are perhaps stronger than some works of Jewish authors, for example Voinovich.
              And this is after sectarian songs about the beautiful USSR? After no less beautiful songs about Russophobia in Russian media space?

              The author’s article immediately reveals his affiliation with the followers of this sect of witnesses of the USSR at Goblin. The expressions are exactly the same. The same impudent glow of lies, half-and-half with evil irony.
              What are they actually preaching? Everything is simple, as it should be for sectarians: there is only one truth, and this truth is ours. That is, the one spoken by the elder and his first assistants. This "truth" has nothing to do with real history. And it is intended only to serve the glory and material well-being of the leadership of the sect ..

              Well, it is not surprising that the younger comrades immediately pulled themselves up in support, shouting "Russian cinema is just that", and "we were robbed."
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 10: 52
                +3
                Quote: Mestny
                this is the film "Bitter!"
                A unique case. Clear business, it was necessary to look.
                The result of the scan is a collection of the well-known brown substance below the belt. More Russophobic crafts did not have to see

                Unfortunately, such crafts through two or three weddings in real life.
          2. lucul
            lucul 9 December 2019 13: 10
            +4
            I even had to "Bitter!" overpower in order to draw the right conclusions.

            One of those rare films that I want to. For the entire film I have never laughed. I watched for fun - a completely alien mentality in the film. I first encountered such a substance.
      2. nikvic46
        nikvic46 9 December 2019 09: 36
        0
        Sergey. And if you are allergic to these oranges?
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 10: 19
          -6
          It is clear that in this case it is a quote. To paraphrase - "let's talk about the properties of something with those who have studied it, or at least seen it with their own eyes."
      3. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 10: 53
        +3
        As the saying goes, to understand that shit is shit, just smell it, and not eat it entirely. The clip is more than enough.
      4. Comrade Michael
        Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 15: 54
        -1
        Let's tell stories that shit is shit to take a word, and not try to counter stories with a spoon yourself ...
    2. Avior
      Avior 9 December 2019 10: 38
      +2
      The story according to which the script is made can be read, it is not very big
      http://militera.lib.ru/prose/russian/kondratyev4/05.html
  14. parusnik
    parusnik 9 December 2019 07: 39
    +5
    Do you want it like in Ukraine? ... Get another "masterpiece" ... They also shoot something like that ... Although, oh, you can't write about such comparisons ... Bandera's people make films there, but we have democrats or liberals or conservatives or ..... It's a pity, my money as an author will go into someone's pocket for royalties ... Or to shoot another similar "masterpiece" ... Sergeant Kondratyev shot himself in 1993, when he realized how he was framed. ..
  15. Astra wild
    Astra wild 9 December 2019 07: 49
    +3
    The novel, the only thing and that in fairness: "exclusively purely Slavic persons" Ukrainians are also Slavs. And so everything is correct. Modern films about the Second World War are complete shit.
  16. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 9 December 2019 07: 57
    -16
    I will not say anything about the film, I have not yet seen it. But the author’s reasoning is personally disgusting to me.
  17. Loess
    Loess 9 December 2019 08: 17
    -3
    If the task at the state level is simply to ruin everything Soviet, to decommunize the Soviet legacy, then maybe just say so about it?
    There is a bust of Stalin near the Kremlin wall. None of the Democrats are there. The "decommunization of the Soviet legacy" would have started from there.
    Not every filmmaking is made for political reasons. Most often this is an attempt to "cut the dough" or get, albeit dubious, but fame. And then convert this fame into "loot".
    Unfortunately, at
    Russian culture
    there is no political order, therefore they "mold" what they can. On the other hand, if such an order appears and it is patriotic films that are shot, then the press will begin to "spread rot" and this cinema, blaming it for the fact of "ordering". Well, except perhaps for the "correct" films about the times of Stalin's rule.
    And in the absence of a government order, our direction is simply not interested in what the majority of viewers would like to see. They are limited by the framework of a "bohemian" get-together.
    PS It would be better to film Pikul ...
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 9 December 2019 08: 36
      +7
      You do not take into account the consequences of such an open desovetization, such as the destruction of the busts of Stalin or the Mausoleum of V.I. Lenin. Not all Soviet people were killed by the “democrats”, therefore they are still acting cautiously, gradually poisoning young people with their poison, through such anti-Soviet films and the Western system of education, through new history textbooks where only three pages are given to the subject of the Second World War.
      1. Loess
        Loess 9 December 2019 09: 28
        +3
        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        You don’t take into account what such an open desovetization can lead to,

        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        Not all Soviet people were killed, democrats,

        Alas, this is unlikely. The removal of Stalin's body from the mausoleum did not entail any significant reaction from the population. But millions of people who survived the war were alive under his leadership.
        The collapse of the Union took place without any significant problems from the population.
        Therefore, with appropriate processing of public opinion or without such processing, there will be no significant problems. A dozen rallies will take place, the media will earn on hype, we are indignant in the network. And that’s it.
        Therefore, I remain with my opinion - there is no request for "de-Sovietization" from the authorities. I do not deny that such a request may come from, say, an NGO, or some media personalities. It doesn't matter who it is from. But I still don't see this request from the authorities.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 9 December 2019 10: 03
          +1
          Forest, and you are right: NOW there is no corresponding order from the authorities. The "old" order is in effect, do you remember what happened in the early 90s?
          I have a feeling that even V.V. cannot cancel it. Remember what the srach went when they returned Stalin at the metro station? Then somehow V.V. fairly spoke about the period that happened. I thought that it would be torn apart by figures from "Memory".
          EBN gave an order for "de-Sovietization", and the Statue of Liberty inspired him. Remember how he said that when he flew around the statue, he felt freer?
      2. Comrade Michael
        Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 15: 56
        -1
        Young people sneeze on these efforts of the bourgeoisie .... Nothing acts on them ....)))) I know from my son.
  18. gaura
    gaura 9 December 2019 08: 29
    +7
    Commentators! Have you even read the book on which the film was made ?? I didn't like the special officer, and in the book he was even worse. Didn't you like the criminal? And in the book, he also escaped and killed a Red Army man on the way for the sake of documents. In the book, the company was sent to "redeem in blood" without any lofty words about the offensive. Just because they had already reported upstairs about the capture of the village and were afraid to report the surrender.
    The dialogue between the old man and the Specialist is not much of the plot, yet Orthodoxy and the sacrament were dragged together. And more and more no complaints. Want to see the international? but nothing that the divisions consisted of those nationalities where they were formed. And the division could easily be without ukrov or drilled. No, you FSE is lying ?!
    I would like to see some spherical heroes in a vacuum, but they just showed a collection of frontline stories and memoirs. Before you reflect, at least read a book. The film smoothed many moments on the contrary
    1. victor50
      victor50 9 December 2019 13: 01
      0
      Quote: gaura
      And the division without ukrov could easily turn out to be

      This is where it was possible to form a division without Ukrainians (to call those who fought, Ukrainians - an abomination!)? And at the end of 42, but near Rzhev - purely Russian divisions?
      1. gaura
        gaura 9 December 2019 14: 11
        0
        You, of course, know better. Do you know everyone by name? And the Siberian divisions from Buryatia also went with the Ukrainians ????
        1. victor50
          victor50 9 December 2019 14: 55
          -3
          Quote: gaura
          And the Siberian divisions from Buryatia also went with the Ukrainians ????

          And what about Siberia, including in Buryatia, there were no Ukrainians? And you know purely Buryat, Tatar, Yakut, etc. divisions?
          1. gaura
            gaura 10 December 2019 08: 43
            +1
            Exactly, you all know by name. What objections can there be ?! Ukrainians rather in the frame!
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 December 2019 13: 26
      -1
      Quote: gaura
      Want to see the international? but nothing that the divisions consisted of those nationalities where they were formed. And the division could easily be without ukrov or drilled.

      In 41 and 42 years, in these most difficult years of the war, 65% of the army made up RUSSIAN. Although their share in the population of the USSR was 50%.

      Every fourth Russian, regardless of gender and age, put on his overcoat.

      In Kondratyev's story, a soldier, a WWI veteran said so: "I went to fight for RUSSIA!" As he fought in WWI, and earlier, before him, his ancestors ...
      1. victor50
        victor50 9 December 2019 14: 56
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        Although their share in the population of the USSR was 50%.

        ??
    3. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 19: 32
      -1
      A living example: 326 rifle division, which fought 10 kilometers from the place where the action of the film "Rzhev" took place, judging by the book. On the Rzhev-Ostashkov highway there is a memorial to the Yakut warriors - the division was formed in Yakutia
      1. VeteranVSSSR
        VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 40
        -1
        Iron logic !!, if you continue your `` thought '', then only Ukrainians and Belarusians fought on the Ukrainian or Belorussian fronts ??? Oh well...
  19. vladcub
    vladcub 9 December 2019 08: 33
    0
    Actually, this producer (I don’t understand why the producer is needed) is right that Rzhev was somehow silent and the cinema and historians didn’t cover this topic too.
    I agree with the author that Ms. Yurchenko is not Yu. Ozerov. In general, there were few such directors like Ozerov and the Soviet Union. Comrades, can you direct directors like Ozerov a lot?
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 9 December 2019 08: 41
      +1
      Quote: vladcub
      Rzhev was somehow hushed up by the cinema and historians also did not really cover this topic.

      I would not say that they did not cover, such a "historian" as A. Pivovarov very much even "enlightened" in 2009.
      Now here we are.
    2. SASHA OLD
      SASHA OLD 9 December 2019 09: 00
      +1
      Quote: vladcub
      and historians didn’t cover this topic too

      Isaev lit
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 9 December 2019 11: 58
        +2
        Isaev man seems responsible
        1. SASHA OLD
          SASHA OLD 9 December 2019 15: 03
          +2
          Quote: vladcub
          Isaev man seems responsible

          and as an archival researcher - one of the best, and as a speaker is good
          I hope to finally get a "doctor" soon
        2. SASHA OLD
          SASHA OLD 13 December 2019 00: 41
          0
          Quote: vladcub
          Isaev man seems responsible


          sobsno ...
          I knew that he would not ignore this
    3. victor50
      victor50 9 December 2019 13: 06
      +1
      Quote: vladcub
      Comrades, can you direct directors like Ozerov a lot?

      I do not remember who the director of "Battalions are asking for fire", "Hot Snow", "The Living and the Dead", "Detachment" is. There, everything is also not just in terms of plots, most are dying. There is enough truth in them: both a soldier's trench and commanders of divisions and armies. There is only no known substance.
    4. lucul
      lucul 9 December 2019 13: 19
      +4
      Actually, this producer (I don’t understand why the producer is needed) is right that Rzhev was somehow silent and the cinema and historians didn’t cover this topic too.

      So they just put a bunch of people there, what is there to praise?
      1. Comrade Michael
        Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 15: 58
        -2
        And where are our current "correct" victories? Without heaps of dead?
    5. VeteranVSSSR
      VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 45
      +1
      Bondarchuk-FATHER - "They fought for the Motherland"
  20. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 9 December 2019 08: 47
    +1
    Someone said that "... if you shoot into the past with a pistol, then it (the past) will respond with a cannon, and shit on our fallen ancestors without these" filmmakers "is heaped by their Western teachers innumerable. But I dare to remind you that that the people who endured on their shoulders all the hardships of the Great Patriotic War is not so easy to fool - wait for the answer from the cheaters from the cinema and he will not keep you waiting long ...
  21. gaura
    gaura 9 December 2019 08: 49
    +2
    Roman has all the blame for both Kondratyev and the filmmakers who made the film pretty close to the plot. And with a bayonet no one could poke in the eye. All fools without consultants. And what is the preparation of positions in the film is not shown? and that the soldiers didn’t loot at all? fed on holy spirit and thoughts of communion? In which dugouts were supposed to sit the fighters who had just occupied the village ??? Something is taut with logic. My grandfather was at 41 near Rzhev as part of the Krasnoyarsk division, were there definitely Armenians with Ukrainians ?? Oh how do you like to crap everything
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 09: 29
      -4
      They have their own logic.
      This is the mythological USSR invented by the Communist Reconstructors. In which everything was decidedly perfect. And anyone who doubts this immediately anathematizes.
      According to this logic, there was nothing wrong. Writing, talking and filming about the USSR is allowed only good, gold leaf red star.
      This is such a peculiar sectarian political correctness. Like the Americans in the movies.
      As for the war, then all nationalities are brothers, shoulder to shoulder, kind brave political instructor, wise command, and selfless devotion to the USSR.
      Everything, as the newspaper Pravda wrote, which for the communist reenactors is, of course, the standard of honesty and Truth with a capital letter.
      It is clear that the numerous memoirs and just the memories of the veterans of this war, if they do not fit this bravura image, are immediately consigned to oblivion. At best, with indistinct muttering about "well, it probably was, an isolated case, but in the vast majority everything was fine."

      And as soon as something different from their sectarian manuals appears, then any comrade immediately speaks out loudly in the style of "this is all not true." With the support of the chorus of younger sectarians in the style of "I did not watch, but I condemn", and "thank you for opening my eyes."
      I can predict what will happen to the rental. The people will go and watch. As the same Stalingrad looked. Not because the people are "bad", and they "dirtied their brains", but because these sectarians failed to do the same.
      Of course, not all will go. Because the people are different. Not the same as in the heads of sectarians.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 9 December 2019 10: 46
        +4
        An interesting story of an “eyewitness” ... I’ve taken it right by the soul ... Do you personally like films about the Second World War, in which white-ticket actors play?
        For example, it’s more expensive for me in which actors who were former front-line soldiers ...
        Quote: Mestny
        Writing, talking and filming about the USSR is allowed only good, gold leaf red star.

        From what. You can not write about the USSR “good, gold leaf”, but who then will give you (like Solzhenitsyn) the Order of the Holy Apostle Andrew the First-Called?
        Quote: Mestny
        And as soon as something different from their sectarian manuals appears, then any comrade immediately speaks out loudly in the style of "this is all not true." With the support of the chorus of younger sectarians in the style of "I did not watch, but I condemn", and "thank you for opening my eyes."

        Indeed, yes this is - villains, scum ... How dare they speak out? All these Soviet films are crap. Bondarchuk shouted incorrectly when his legs were amputated, Papanov didn’t say it when he explained the situation to senior political instructor Sintsov ... And what kind of comedy “Only Old Men Go to Battle”?
        After seventy-five years of peace, we wanted to see how the skulls were cut by sapper shovels ... To see how the limbs were torn off by an explosion ... We, fed by the horrors of zombo apocalypse, simply demand the truth ...
        When you tell a fairy tale about Little Red Riding Hood to children, do you accurately convey the action when the Wolf eats Grandma?
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 11: 02
          -9
          Yes speak out - who forbids you? This is not the USSR, here we have freedom of speech.
          This movie is for adults, not for children. There are films for them. As well as the version of fairy tales.
          You are just trying to replace reality with such colored tales. It will be smeared there, here we will erase it, glue it - and further and further from the real story. And it happens like this in a war - with sapper shovels in the skulls. Should an adult know that this happened too? Surely a must.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          From what. You can not write about the USSR “good, gold leaf”, but who then will give you (like Solzhenitsyn) the Order of the Holy Apostle Andrew the First-Called?

          The fact is that the CPSU and the Soviet government no longer exist. those who just passed off as "gold leaf".
          Now they give out for miscellaneous. And for this, and for the opposite.
          Only something "gold leaf" movie as it is not visible. For some reason they are not filming.
          Maybe they know that the viewer will not go? The main thing is he, the viewer, and not the forums of "historians", and their competent opinion?

          Why is freedom good? The fact that anyone can fill their heads with the rest of their minds.
          We admit that the communist reenactors have not yet succeeded. Besides howling on the Internet - nothing. Nothing was built by them, almost nothing was taken off, not written. Not a single educational institution, not a single kindergarten has been opened. Even mass rallies - and those are not organized.
          Only watering is known than on the Internet "damned liberals" and "detractors of the history of the USSR".
          And there is a persistent feeling - are you really worried about money, gentlemen, comrades?
          Those that the state did not give you, but gave to others.
          Yes, you have to be able to ask them. The times when they were simply "given" are over.
          Gone are the days when a director for people's money could afford to shoot 10-minute scenes of changing the expression on the face of a hero against the background of flowing water. Then no one in the people once asked - why do we need such a movie? Let's get electricity to a village in the Novgorod region?
          Because it was impossible to ask such questions.
          Now you can.
          And you need to be able to ask - to convince, so to speak.
          1. Victorio
            Victorio 9 December 2019 12: 17
            +4
            Quote: Mestny
            This movie is for adults, not for children. There are films for them. As well as the version of fairy tales.

            Quote: Mestny
            Let's get electricity to a village in the Novgorod region?

            ===
            maybe it’s worth making a movie about adults, how can they conduct electricity in a village in the Novgorod region, about realities with stealing officials and fattening oligarchs, about rudeness and dirt, about the notorious Russian gouging at work, murders on the roads !? and do not climb with your little hands there / to that little saint that still holds and fastens Russia
            1. Comrade Michael
              Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 16: 00
              0
              For this, little hands can beat off ... But for the Great Patriotic War no. The logic is simple.
          2. victor50
            victor50 9 December 2019 13: 14
            +2
            Quote: Mestny
            Yes speak out - who forbids you? This is not the USSR, here we have freedom of speech.

            But no one seems to embellish Soviet reality as much as you present. And with freedom of speech, diligently succumb to power. Freedom by freedom - what if? lol Well, if you carefully look at your criticism of the sectarian communists, then only one question arises - what are you different? Only by spitting the other way ?! And personally, I do not have the slightest doubt - all your statements are exactly according to the manual. Not "sectarian", but nonesh. good
        2. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 18: 49
          +2
          Yes, so that this does not happen again, it is necessary to stage films in which the war is shown in all its glory. So that the descendants do not think that the war is a walk with postrelushki, and the wounded sing exclusively "Internationale"
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 9 December 2019 12: 15
        0
        "not the same as in the heads of the sectarians" older people will not go: 1) not that health, to run around the movies and finances are not very good.
        2) after such a "scolding" as Roman arranged, there will be few people willing.
        I will not watch this film because time is a pity and I have already expressed my criterion for films about the war. The most truthful films were filmed by direct participants and witnesses of the war
  22. Ros 56
    Ros 56 9 December 2019 08: 58
    +1
    The author urges us to take a pose - "I have not seen the film, but I condemn". Is it too early for such a country to discuss a recently released film or do you want to boast that you were in the forefront of the audience?
    1. gaura
      gaura 9 December 2019 10: 47
      -1
      Judging by the comments, it’s in this pose that the majority of the readers of the post joyfully jumped .. They also criticized Ukrainians, they themselves do not want to think either, a similar post is enough
  23. vladcub
    vladcub 9 December 2019 09: 24
    +3
    "three companies plus support for machine guns and" forty-five "this is how it should be according to the charter, and in 1941, and even near Rzhev. It's good if a full-fledged platoon remains from the battalion. ...
  24. leshii99
    leshii99 9 December 2019 09: 29
    +2
    I watched the film.
    Specially went. I’ll write my opinion about the movie, like an ordinary person, a layman.
    The author of the article refers to feature films, where the Emotional component is important, as to the documentary, which in my opinion is stupid!
    I can say that I liked the film with the general emotion. And the set, as you say, "stamps of the 90s", is how to look at them. All "cliches" are any special case bloated to the size of an "elephant" and stretched across the entire Soviet Union and the Great Patriotic War, in particular.
    Do you want to say that there were no such special officers at all? or has no one ever conducted such conversations? or were there no purely Russian units? In my opinion, we begin to act like "democrats" in the 90s and now, when we begin to make such "cliches" but in the other direction, when the special officers are infallible, the commanders are all-knowing, etc. Stupid!
    Cinema, in my opinion, turned out, another thing is that I will not review it.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 09: 42
      -6
      Revise just because of the artistic component. The story should be with a lot of nuances and faces that are not understood at the first viewing.
      Here, apparently, this story was not enough for you. But this is normal.
      Is that why people cried at the movie Stalingrad? Because the story is about people, albeit a fictional one.
      But "Panfilov's 28" cannot be described that way. History? Yes, it has been known for a long time, from many sources.
      All well done, heroes and for the homeland? Well yes, nobody argues.
      But to count the rivets on the tanks, or to consider the authenticity of the sewn buttons is interesting only to reenactors. They made a film for themselves - they admire themselves.
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 11: 35
        +3
        Quote: Mestny
        But to count the rivets on the tanks, or to consider the authenticity of the sewn buttons is interesting only to reenactors. They made a film for themselves - they admire themselves.

        and let’s like in Hollywood epaulettes to elbows and a star in the forehead
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 11: 45
          +1
          I don’t think that our films about them are very different in terms of such a movie cranberry.
          But you should not focus on the smallest details either. In Soviet cinema, too, modern tanks traveled with plywood.
          And nothing. They did not become less beautiful from this. Because the main thing in the cinema is still the story of people. Everything else is just entourage. At least in this genre.
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 13: 21
            +2
            Quote: Mestny
            I don’t think that our films about them are very different in terms of such a movie cranberry.

            I won’t be talking about now, but IN ALL films of the USSR period, the insignia, uniform and the like ALWAYS corresponded, for this we invited military consultants, and now we even get in such a shape that the hair moves
  25. comradChe
    comradChe 9 December 2019 09: 39
    +1
    Oh wrong, oh, and the novel got excited about the future winner of foreign film awards, and from end to end, the future Oscar-winning film (remember "Burnt by the Sun" by the grand patriot Mikhalkov). This is just business and NOTHING personal. But to expect from the current regime of films about the Second World War with Soviet moral and moral criteria, this is already a reason to turn to a psychiatrist. If you see a draped mausoleum on MAY 9 and still believe in the sincerity of our leaders wandering with portraits of relatives in the "Immortal Regiment" march, then your mildest diagnosis is a split personality. For me, heard in the advertisement the phrase "... you are going to a senseless death ..." said EVERYTHING about the film and the "creators"!
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 09: 48
      -3
      And to me your message above told EVERYTHING about you.
      Does it bother you and seem wrong? Actually you are much smarter and deeper ??
      Well, and the creators of the film, this can also be unpleasant.
      Don't you care? Well, the creators of the film, too, may still not care about your personal opinion, one of 140 million.
    2. gaura
      gaura 9 December 2019 10: 57
      0
      Here again, Putin or Medvedev "leaked" FSE. Did this film have government funding? Why have you dragged the mausoleum here?
    3. lucul
      lucul 9 December 2019 13: 28
      +5
      But to expect from the current regime of films about the Second World War with Soviet moral criteria this is an occasion to turn to a psychiatrist.

      Well why - "We are from the future" is quite a moral and spiritual film.
  26. nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 December 2019 09: 41
    +1
    I can’t scold or praise this film. I don’t watch those films that are put on stream. I don’t need to pay for the author’s fantasies. I have enough of such films on TV.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 09: 50
      -7
      Any film is the fantasy of the authors. Even if it is shot from a book, as in this case.
      I repeat - ANYONE. Even "Panfilov's 28".
      The only question is what other fantasies do you like.
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 11: 29
        +2
        Quote: Mestny
        The only question is what other fantasies do you like.

        the question is how much is true
        when they shoot like that

        then this indicates the absolute professional unsuitability of the crew
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 11: 47
          -6
          This indicates the mistakes of some specialists involved in the filming process.
          How the rest? How is the script, actors playing, editing, lights, cameras?
          But of course, in reconstructive-communist terms, all this is no longer important. One unimportant detail is enough to throw mud over the entire film, and all who shot it.
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 13: 26
            +5
            Quote: Mestny
            it speaks of the mistakes of some specialists

            it speaks of NON-PROFESSIONALISM and a spit including the director
          2. Edmond dantes
            Edmond dantes 9 December 2019 14: 13
            +4
            Why are you so defending this film, you are the author of this creation? I was at "Stalingrad", at the end no one cried, I will not watch the second time. On "28 Panfilovtsy" people at the end stood still for several minutes and did not leave.
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 9 December 2019 13: 30
          +2
          In historical films, CONSULTANTS ARE NECESSARY, so that when working on a film they can explain what and how. And it’s not that they mixed up the form, but the epochs and Julius Caesar will easily dance the hopak of Catherine the Great
  27. Avior
    Avior 9 December 2019 09: 52
    +4
    In my opinion, no matter how the author relates to the film and its creators, attacks on the author of the book, Vyacheslav Kondratiev, a war veteran who undoubtedly showed heroism at the front, who received two injuries and disability at the front, should not take place in the article.
    Even if Kondratiev wrote something wrong, which the author does not agree with, he earned his right to any view of what was happening then. We agree with him, disagree, we must respect the veteran’s right to say how he personally saw this from the trenches on the front lines.
    This is personally his experience and his perception of that war. And you and I were not there.
    And for "Sashka" the writer would also have staged a rout?
    https://cinema.mosfilm.ru/films/34762/
    and about
    Well, as part of the Ukrainian Front, Auschwitz was liberated exclusively by Ukrainians. The rest, obviously, did not go through political casting.

    1. vladcub
      vladcub 9 December 2019 13: 34
      +2
      Roman has this trait: if he doesn’t like something, he will not regret black paint. Is it good or bad?
    2. Alevil
      Alevil 9 December 2019 14: 19
      0
      By the way, Alexander Yakovlev (architect of perestroika) was also a war veteran.
      1. Andrey Chistyakov
        Andrey Chistyakov 9 December 2019 21: 40
        -1
        Quote: Alevil
        By the way, Alexander Yakovlev (architect of perestroika) was also a war veteran.

        After the war, they were also looking for traitors, including "Veterans". A. Yakovlev was an agent of the United States. Did not know? M. Gorbachev documents showed him. Data. Gorbachev said. Bad of course. And that's it ...
  28. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 9 December 2019 09: 59
    +2
    I have only one question. Who ordered this?
    There is an answer. You see, to shoot a movie with OUR money, you don’t need any talent, no idea, nothing at all. You just need acquaintances, and an elementary mastery of filming equipment. So today they shoot our films - they get to the budget teat by acquaintance, pump out how much the acquaintance has the opportunity, give him the majority, the smaller part for himself, sculpt what will come out for the remainder. Lepota!
    And why then from time to time here SUCH turns out? Can I seem to take it the other way ?! Just by the law of large numbers? And then there is a surcharge. Which the director is not sharing with anyone. There is that surcharge from various funds and funds, available in abundance around, despite the laws on foreign agents.
    Sweet unaccounted for money ... Only the fondiki have a clear training manual (and you can save money on screenwriters), so there will be no really patriotic films, do not wait. By the way, all this is possible only with the full cooperation and help of the FSB. Ugh ...
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 10: 05
      -6
      Well, if everything is so simple when you don’t need talent, thought, or skill, then what’s the matter? Make films yourself, such as you like?
      But no, not visible.
      That's because you only see money. Which of course did not give you. On the side, the film was shot using a real book, as Avior writes:
      ... no matter how the author relates to the film and its creators, attacks on the author of the book, Vyacheslav Kondratiev, a war veteran who undoubtedly showed heroism at the front, who received two injuries and disability at the front, should not take place in the article.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 9 December 2019 10: 47
        +2
        FAQ ?! I miss the very little thing - access to the "culture" budget. As I understand it, you are perfectly aware of how much money is needed for filming. Despicable, yeah. Which I can only see mercantile, but the spirit-lifting "creators" soar in the empyrean. I just cried about the "real book". Of course, the "real book" redeems everything!
        How is he, the bread of betrayal? Sweet? Do not choke ...
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 11: 50
          -5
          My language doesn’t dare to call a war veteran a traitor only because he wrote a book unlike the stories of modern sectarians from communist history.
          And I see you can, everything is in order.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          I miss the very little thing - access to the "culture" budget.

          That's it about this, and about people like you I write.
          You are sure that the whole problem is that they are not giving you money. And if you gave, then you hoo! Such a film would be shot!
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 9 December 2019 12: 00
            0
            And I turn. There were enough traitors in the war. Including those who later walked, shook with medals, "monetized" their dexterity. The problem is not that we are not given money. The problem is they are being given to you! And you plunder them, and on top of the Judas' pieces of silver you also take.
            You see, the last person who gave me money was my father, in the USSR as well. And after I graduated, I began to EARN them myself. In the sweat of his face. And to give to father, although he did not want to take it scary. I still earn money, and with hard work. However, I do not expect that you will understand the difference.
            1. Avior
              Avior 9 December 2019 13: 01
              +1
              the author of the book, based on which the film was shot, went on the attack at the head of his platoon, rather than shaking medals
    2. gaura
      gaura 9 December 2019 10: 59
      +4
      How much government money spent on the movie ?? Organize an investigation, as a bulk bequeathed and reveal to the world how much was sawn on the set?
  29. AleBors
    AleBors 9 December 2019 10: 15
    +1
    So far I've only seen the trailer for this movie. Even from him I understood what kind of "work" it was.
    I don’t remember, enlighten me, has a law been passed on countering the falsification of history? Maybe it's time to judge these "creators"?
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 10: 30
      -11
      The author of the book is Vyacheslav Kondratyev, a war veteran. A movie was made on it.
      But the pseudo-historians who write about the beautiful, flawless USSR is really time to judge.
      Unless of course we still need the truth.
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 11: 24
        +6
        Quote: Mestny
        But the pseudo-historians who write about the beautiful, flawless USSR is really time to judge.

        and someone, somewhere, once said that the Union had no flaws ?!
        There are flaws in ANY society, the question is what are the more pros or cons and in what direction the society is developing
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 December 2019 11: 52
          -3
          Develop back to the USSR?
          No thanks. I prefer to go to social justice in another way - the development of what is, slow and careful.
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 13: 10
            +2
            with an understanding of the problem read?
      2. victor50
        victor50 9 December 2019 13: 22
        +4
        Quote: Mestny
        The author of the book is Vyacheslav Kondratyev, a war veteran

        Bondarev, Bykov, Bogomolov, Vasiliev and others - so, who did not fight writers?
      3. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 13: 24
        -8
        With the beautiful, impeccable USSR about the Rzhev operations, all three, official propaganda was generally silent in a rag. If they talked about the Battle of Rzhev, then casually, without specifics. This disrespect for the fallen, actually.
        1. Alevil
          Alevil 9 December 2019 14: 14
          +9
          And in the beautiful and impeccable Russian Federation, they only talk about the Rzhev operation. And also about the catastrophe of 1941, repressions, the "vile" Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, the "bloody and terrible" Stalin, the "butcher" Zhukov, questions about whether "it was not better to surrender Leningrad", etc. etc. Almost without talking about the brilliant victories (ask the young people if they know, for example, about the Yasso-Chisinau operation), about the magnificent achievements in education and industry of the 30s and about much, much more.
          This is done only if they want to inspire people with an inferiority complex.
      4. VeteranVSSSR
        VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 51
        +2
        Vlasov is twice a veteran, from all sides, and hanged like a dog ...
  30. thinker
    thinker 9 December 2019 10: 16
    +6
    I won’t say anything about the film, I haven’t seen it, but the discussion, the ratings on Kinopoisk are depressing, more than half are estimated per unit
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 9 December 2019 12: 00
      +1
      Cinema search should not be taken as an assessment base. A large mass of anti-Russian shobla settled in there, which automatically puts units of everything in Russia, if it is not chernukha or some other idiocy. The same people in euphoria put 10 points on the series about Chernobyl, which, in my understanding, is simply the quintessence of anti-Soviet propaganda and Russophobia.
      1. thinker
        thinker 9 December 2019 13: 01
        +1
        Thank you, but it really is. Somehow I was not in the know. hi
      2. brat07
        brat07 11 December 2019 02: 59
        -1
        Quote: Voyager
        Cinema search should not be taken as an assessment base. A large mass of anti-Russian shobla settled in there, which automatically puts units of everything in Russia, if it is not chernukha or some other idiocy. The same people in euphoria put 10 points on the series about Chernobyl, which, in my understanding, is simply the quintessence of anti-Soviet propaganda and Russophobia.

        Totally agree with you.
        Better to "touch once than hear ten times."
    2. brat07
      brat07 11 December 2019 02: 48
      -1
      Quote: thinker
      I won’t say anything about the film, I haven’t seen it, but the discussion, the ratings on Kinopoisk are depressing, more than half are estimated per unit

      Well, to be honest, the ratings there (on this site) are very different. From 10 to 1. And relying on these estimates, in my opinion, is not entirely correct. Someone liked it, but someone didn’t.
      And yes, judging by the rating of the "kinooposka" is, in my opinion, wrong. IMHO.
      Yes, I forgot to clarify that I did not watch this film.
      Therefore, I do not want to express any judgments on this "tape".
      Have you watched this movie?
  31. BISMARCK94
    BISMARCK94 9 December 2019 10: 23
    +3
    Thanks to the author, I was just thinking of going or not. Now it’s better to wait for the review from Comedian
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 9 December 2019 10: 36
      -10
      There is no doubt that these evil clowns will shout.
      Sorry, but if Badcomedian is the main source of opinions for you, then it is safe to say that you don’t understand a word from a movie at all.
      1. teron
        teron 9 December 2019 14: 01
        +2
        Everything is very simple, dear, let's look at the fees of this film. Money will tell everyone whether the film is really good or not. In the courtyard of capitalism.
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 9 December 2019 15: 17
          0
          Many amazing films over the past century have failed at the box office. This is not always an indicator.
      2. BISMARCK94
        BISMARCK94 9 December 2019 15: 49
        0
        There is no doubt that these evil clowns will shout.
        Sorry, but if Badcomedian is the main source of opinions for you, then it is safe to say that you don’t understand a word from a movie at all.

        And I am not a film industry worker. It sounds like "You don't like the peregrine falcon, then you don't understand the word at all in the railway and rolling stock."
        What does it mean to understand war movies? You must be at least historically savvy for the gap featured in the film. Well, a good film adaptation complements. And our filmmakers from the cinema fund have neither one nor the other with separate exceptions. I went to Midway that week, I never regretted it.
      3. Comrade Michael
        Comrade Michael 9 December 2019 16: 07
        -3
        The poor comedian is smarter than all of you put together ..
  32. Robert
    Robert 9 December 2019 10: 38
    +6
    If the task at the state level is simply to ruin everything Soviet, to decommunize the Soviet legacy, then maybe just say so about it? How honestly and openly they did it in Ukraine.
    Wow ... Roman finally realized that our state level would be even lower than the Ukrainian one.
    No, they won't say it directly, because they use the Second World War and the memory of it as an element of PR. Why not: letters from the participants of the Second World War, and museums and exhibitions ... And then "Rzhev" comes out ...
  33. Prisoner
    Prisoner 9 December 2019 10: 40
    +2
    On Victory Day I will watch "They Fought for the Motherland", "Hot Snow" and "Long Versts of War". And to scold, whom to scold for the dumbbell? People filming the war, who have not even seen it from afar? Waste of time. ps When this baida fails at the box office, and it fails, the money would be forced to return.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 9 December 2019 14: 13
      +4
      In I will revise: "Liberation", "Only" old men "go into battle," Father of a soldier "or" In August 1944 "
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner 9 December 2019 16: 46
        +2
        Soul film "Father of a Soldier". When I first looked as a kid, at the end, when the father was dying in his arms, he hid behind the closet and roared. It was a shame that a crybaby, but could not help it.
      2. VeteranVSSSR
        VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 56
        +1
        Review - ,, Chronicle of a Dive Bomber ''
    2. VeteranVSSSR
      VeteranVSSSR 9 December 2019 22: 54
      +1
      It will not hurt - `` In war, as in war ''
  34. Ru_Na
    Ru_Na 9 December 2019 10: 47
    +5
    Another miscarriage of our filmmakers, who have done it to the fullest! No, I understand it is necessary to engage in patriotic education, but why shoot SUCH !!! Well, thank you that at least the shells do not ricochet off the paving stones as in the "T-34" and the Germans are portrayed as Germans, and not the disguised and painted clowns from "The Legend of Kolovrat"!
  35. Robert
    Robert 9 December 2019 10: 53
    +2
    It would be better if you, Madame Yurchenko, would not touch this topic. With such hands ...

    The ceiling for Yurchenko (and then as a producer) is the series about cops:
    https://www.kino-teatr.ru/kino/producer/ros/32750/works/
    Therefore, if Rzhev was not filmed specifically so (which is not particularly believed in modern Russia), then the result was quite predictable. This is probably why Yurchenko is there, and no one else ...
  36. AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 11: 01
    +2
    Unfortunately or fortunately, I haven't watched the film. And Kondratyev read: "Vacation from injury" "Sashka" "Selizharovsky tract" "Redeem with blood" Excellent books!
    He was in those places about which Kondratyev wrote, he was at the Memory Watch, digging. Scary places. Grandfather himself lies near Rzhev, not near the Volga, but closer to Osuga. Missing, operation Mars.
    1. Avior
      Avior 9 December 2019 11: 09
      +2
      The film is just about blood atone
    2. Terenin
      Terenin 9 December 2019 16: 15
      +4
      Quote: AU Ivanov.
      Unfortunately or fortunately, I haven't watched the film. And Kondratyev read: "Vacation from injury" "Sashka" "Selizharovsky tract" "Redeem with blood" Excellent books!
      He was in those places about which Kondratyev wrote, he was at the Memory Watch, digging. Scary places. Grandfather himself lies near Rzhev, not near the Volga, but closer to Osuga. Missing, operation Mars.

      Andrew, hi in my opinion, you answered your question yourself. The Russian person, along with the genetic memory of the ancestors who defend the Fatherland, their stories passing from generation to generation, and at least a superficial study of documents (and excavations) about the events of WWII, WWII and "hot spots" ... there is no question whether the next game will shake cinema our memory of the Great Warriors of Russia.
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 20: 00
        +1
        I took my sons to the cop, they saw WHAT PRICE the Victory got to us. And there are many young guys among the search engines.
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 9 December 2019 23: 01
          +4
          Quote: AS Ivanov.
          I took my sons to the cop

          Correctly. So do I.
  37. NordUral
    NordUral 9 December 2019 11: 09
    +1
    Another pouring mud Soviet. It is time to already understand why and who does it.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 11: 12
      +1
      Do you want to say that Kondratyev, a veteran, criticized the Soviet? No, he wrote the truth, uncomfortable, prickly. Like Shumilin in his "Vanka-Rotny". Trench truth, not Soviet propaganda.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 9 December 2019 11: 29
        +6
        But this libel does not stick out the trench truth, but the anti-Soviet lie, covering it with the trench truth. There was everything in that war, there were special creatures, there were creature commanders. But the united Soviet people and Soviet power won that war.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 11: 33
          +2
          Why did they drag power here? Very many, especially from peasants, were not, so to speak, the Soviet authorities. But they fought for their home, for their homeland, for relatives and friends. As at all times: at Borodino, in Sevastopol, at Poltava, at Kulikov om Pole, finally. They did not fight for power, but for their homeland.
          1. NordUral
            NordUral 9 December 2019 11: 47
            +6
            Not everyone fought for Soviet power, Andrei, I agree, but the majority for both the Motherland and the Soviet Homeland. It is a fact!
  38. Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 9 December 2019 11: 21
    +2
    Well, I immediately realized that the team making the film had no idea about command and control of the army and the army as a whole.
    Remember the title in Soviet films about the war, the consultants are colonel generals, will you find at least ONE leitech in the consultants today? !!!!
  39. Tank hard
    Tank hard 9 December 2019 11: 22
    +5
    The company, on the basis of which the plot develops, does not have a single foreigner. Exceptionally purely Slavic faces. This film is very different from hundreds of other films,

    According to the recollections of my late grandfather, a disabled war of the 1st group, who was awarded the medal for courage and the Order of the Patriotic War of the 1st degree, companies consisting exclusively of Slavs were present, however, like all other companies, often not for long, in those days in 15 minutes of battle, often there were 15 people left from the battalion, what can we say about the company. From his memoirs, in those units where my grandfather fought, the political instructors were reluctant to attack, to put it mildly ... He called Zhukov a "butcher" for neglecting soldier's life, but he praised Rokossovsky very much, spoke of him with great respect. I have not seen this film, so that I can not say anything. In general, I practically do not remember a single film about the Patriotic War, shot after 1991, which I would like, perhaps only "In August 44". And they did not like to remember the "Rzhev operation" even under the USSR, apparently there was a reason ... request
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 9 December 2019 11: 55
      -1
      Quote: Tank Hard
      perhaps only "In August 44th"

      How the film is good, how the film adaptation of the novel is weak, in my opinion, of course.
      "White Tiger" (K. Shakhnazarov), TV series "Apostle" - I like it, they can shoot now.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 9 December 2019 12: 13
        +5
        Quote: bober1982
        How the film is good, how the film adaptation of the novel is weak, in my opinion of course

        I agree that rarely does anyone know how to shoot at least equal to what was written. By the way, they say that Bogomolov himself was very dissatisfied with the resulting version of his book "The Moment of Truth", I also like the book more, but the film, in my opinion, is quite. hi
      2. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 13: 01
        +2
        According to Boyashov's "White Tiger", the film cannot be shot at all. This is a parable about the eternal struggle between good and evil, and not a primitive action movie about tankers. Book - 5, film - count. "In August 44", also instead of a psychological military detective, was filmed, again, albeit a good one, but an action movie. And the book is about the intellectual work of SMERSH.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 9 December 2019 19: 51
          -1
          Quote: AS Ivanov.
          "In August 44", also instead of a psychological military detective, was filmed, again, albeit a good one, but an action movie.

          Lioznova series 20 would stretch.
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 19: 53
            0
            20 is not worth it, but less than 4 material the book does not fit. And be sure to voiceover, like Lioznova, revealing the thoughts of the main characters and operational documents.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 9 December 2019 20: 10
              0
              Quote: AS Ivanov.
              20 is not worth it, but less than 4 material the book does not fit.

              Maybe 20 and not necessary, just with less source material Semenova (by eye), Lioznova turned out to be an excellent film for 12 episodes. A completely different approach to the material.
    2. Victorio
      Victorio 9 December 2019 12: 04
      +2
      Quote: Tank Hard
      In general, I practically do not remember a single film about the Patriotic War, shot after 1991, which I would have liked, perhaps only "In August 44".

      ===
      I remember Dmitry Meskhiev's film "ours"
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 9 December 2019 17: 06
      +4
      Quote: Tank Hard
      He called Zhukov a "butcher" for his disregard for soldier's life, but he praised Rokossovsky very much, spoke of him with great respect.

      The front commander, Rokossovsky, under the impression that the cause of the failure was the bad actions of the infantry soldiers, tried to use detachments to influence the infantry.
      Rokossovsky insisted that the detachments follow the infantry units and force the fighters to attack.

      © Report by the PA NKVD DF at the UOO NKVD of the USSR on offensive operations of the 66th Army. October 30, 1942

      And here is how Rokossovsky was advancing:
      By order of the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command and the Military Council of the Front, units of the 66th Army were assigned a combat mission - from the morning of 20.10 on the indicated area to launch an offensive, break through the enemy’s defenses, and by 23.10.42 connect with the troops of the Stalingrad Front and destroy the enemy group that had broken through to the river Volga.
      To ensure the fulfillment of this task, 66 armies, apart from the five rifle divisions that were part of it, were assigned four SDs from 24 armies and four fresh SDs from the Headquarters reserve (62, 212, 226 and 252 SDs).
      The army was also given: 23 artillery regiment RGK, 12 guards mortar regiments, several tank brigades. For every kilometer of the front line of the army there were 74 guns, not counting mortars and “PC” installations.
      (...)
      Despite the great superiority of our advancing units in manpower, firepower, tanks, and aircraft, the task set by the Headquarters and units of Army 66 were not fulfilled.
      On 26.10.42, the units advanced at most by 3 km and took 3-5 German lines of defense, halted the offensive, having suffered heavy casualties (up to 4-5 thousand each division).

      So there is no difference from Zhukov. The army of 1942 sample leveled any commanders' talents.
      Commander 62 SD - Colonel Frolov and early. Stadivas - Lieutenant Colonel Kolomiyets, having received an order on the offensive, did not explain the tasks to the commanders, did not check how their orders were carried out, did not provide practical assistance to the regiment commanders. Regiment commanders were not serious about preparing units and personnel for the operation. The commander of 123 SP, 62 SD - Major Proyavenko, got acquainted with the area only on the map, the battalion commanders looked at the area at night, the borders of the line of operations were not assigned to the battalions. Due to poor organization, the battalions were not pulled back to the starting position for attack at 3.00, as provided for by order, but only at 7.00, were discovered by the enemy and subjected to heavy artillery fire.
      Having fallen under enemy fire, the commanders were at a loss, lost control of the units. Fighters in groups and loners scattered on the field, the companies and battalions of the regiment mixed.
      In fact, uncontrollable fighters launched an attack, but after 200-300 meters and again falling under heavy enemy fire, they lay down. Regimental artillery was located at a considerable distance from the infantry, fired on areas, did not suppress enemy firing points, which interfered with the advance of the infantry.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 9 December 2019 21: 13
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        So there is no difference from Zhukov. The army of 1942 sample leveled any commanders' talents.

        My grandfather believed that there was, I was not there, so I can’t express my opinion, but apparently you were there, since you know better than my grandfather ... request
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 10 December 2019 17: 48
          0
          NOTICE +: point to point
      2. chenia
        chenia 9 December 2019 21: 52
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        So there is no difference from Zhukov. The army of 1942 sample leveled any commanders' talents.


        I can and will agree. But there is a question, and who is responsible for BP at all levels? Not the same Zhukov (and as the former Chief of the General Staff with his comrades in the first place, and as a commander)? To be honest, in 1942 the army already had experience and already did not suffer such losses as in 1941. All failures, these are failures after attempts to advance (from Leningrad to Crimea).
  40. igor67
    igor67 9 December 2019 11: 23
    +3
    I watched passages of this film, I watch a lot of cops at the place of fighting in the war,
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 19: 55
      +1
      One of the guys - search engines from this video, I know personally. Met on the cop. There, near Rzhev.
  41. rumpeljschtizhen
    rumpeljschtizhen 9 December 2019 11: 34
    0
    So no one watched the film but everyone is discussing ...... Interesting thinking
    1. teron
      teron 9 December 2019 14: 25
      +1
      Such thinking in us was formed by our creators from the cinema. This is the flip side of the production of base cinema at public expense.
  42. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 9 December 2019 11: 45
    +4
    I do not always agree with the author. But in this case I absolutely agree. A hackneyed question, How long !!! ????? When will the authors of such a muddy for state money finally begin to answer the data given to them, when to learn how to work with the script, with archives, with consultants?
  43. anjey
    anjey 9 December 2019 11: 52
    +3
    So I waited, waited and it looks like again and again, I waited for our next modern "masterpiece" about war. We have either a war adventurer or a senile liberal chernukha, something really talented about people in war who are immersed in black evil and bright holiness , many of which it breaks and many temper for the best side of the human personality, there are very few, few really strong and psychological pictures that carry a real and not ostentatious charge of patriotism, especially this is the trouble of modern films.
  44. Victorio
    Victorio 9 December 2019 11: 58
    0
    there are different, solid, truthful and not, tragic and patriotic films about the wows, shot during the union, and very little else created in Russia is enough! I think it’s worth banning the exploitation of the topic. and even more so by people who have nothing to say, show and add to what has already been created.
  45. The comment was deleted.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 9 December 2019 12: 18
      +4
      Quote: ort
      But you yourself and your ancestors betrayed both the Motherland and the "socialist fatherland", to which you swore allegiance in the army. YOU ARE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE 90s. BETRAYED EVERYTHING THAT ONLY CAN BE BETRAYED

      Do not be rude, neither I nor my ancestors betrayed anyone and nothing. Start a record about traitors - go to the mirror. negative
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 9 December 2019 13: 00
      +2
      Quote: ort
      AND THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE IN GENERAL, AT LEAST SOME POWER IN THE HISTORY OF RUSSIA, "VERY LOVED" ???

      mom, born 41 recalled: "everyone cried, the teachers at school too."
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 9 December 2019 14: 22
      +2
      ort, it turns out all the traitors, and you are one patriot?
      1. The comment was deleted.
  46. The comment was deleted.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 9 December 2019 12: 24
      +5
      Quote: RUSS
      not for padded jackets

      And whom do you call Maxim quilted jackets?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
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      2. seacap
        seacap 12 December 2019 13: 08
        0
        I’m a quilted jacket and I’m proud of it, my father is an officer, my grandfather is an officer, I have something to be proud of, and I want my children and grandchildren to be just as proud of their quilted father. By the way, a padded jacket, a great invention, cheap and cheerful, better than any fur coat, warm and comfortable, from environmentally friendly and natural materials, a fashion designer and technologist need to erect a monument.
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 12 December 2019 13: 47
          0
          Quote: seacap
          I’m a quilted jacket and I’m proud of it, my father is an officer, my grandfather is an officer, I have something to be proud of, and I want my children and grandchildren to be just as proud of their quilted father. By the way, a padded jacket, a great invention, cheap and cheerful, better than any fur coat, warm and comfortable, from environmentally friendly and natural materials, a designer and technologist need to put a monument

          Why are you writing this to Me ?! Apparently not understanding to whom, why, and why I asked this question ... The discussion was deleted. The individual used the word "quilted jacket" in a derogatory and contemptuous sense. Exclusively in my opinion, some of the moderators support this opinion of the individual. The curtain.
  47. sergo1914
    sergo1914 9 December 2019 12: 24
    +5
    Well, did the Model even play a Negro?
    1. Victorio
      Victorio 9 December 2019 12: 31
      +4
      Quote: sergo1914
      Well, did the Model even play a Negro?

      ===
      more relevant transgender
  48. DPN
    DPN 9 December 2019 12: 25
    +1
    Today there cannot be normal films about the Second World War, since the war with the Soviet Union has not yet ended, they have not yet managed to completely ruin it. At first, they fought with us; Bastards; then Fine bats, there were probably no normal people sitting behind the skirts at home. So thanks for the comment, I won’t watch.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 9 December 2019 12: 55
      +2
      And there will be no normal films about the Patriotic War of 1812, since the war with the Russian Empire has not yet ended, so do you think?
      1. DPN
        DPN 10 December 2019 06: 38
        -1
        But it is not weak to turn to Kulikov Paul or Alexander Nevsky, or in general to the emergence of RUSI, the Ukrainians are now doing well.
  49. lucul
    lucul 9 December 2019 12: 41
    +3
    Naturally, as without a Jewish political instructor?

    The whole essence of the author’s claims to the film. In my memory - this is the only film where a Jew - political instructor is shown.
    The author focuses on this everywhere, it seems that if there were a Russian special in this film, there would be no claim to the film.
  50. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 9 December 2019 12: 46
    +4
    Horst grossman
    "Rzhev nightmare through the eyes of the Germans" an excerpt where he wrote about the Germans:
    - For thousands of soldiers, Rzhev became a stage selfless struggle. In cold weather, snowstorms, in blazing heat, tortured by hordes of mosquitoes in the vast swampy forests southwest of Rzhev, they resisted the powerful enemy, repelling the attacks where they were ordered. The army and military aviation have shown their best side in months of battles. All branches of the army and all soldiers, from the front-line shooters to the last driver from the wagon train, fought selflessly day and night, fulfilling their heavy, selfless duty.
    For the Germans of that period, the capture and destruction of the Russians was a matter of duty !!! And we play in liberalism and for the sake of "objectivity" we insert episodes of cruelty from our own. In fact, the commanders were the best people in the army, otherwise they would just be shot. For his battalion commander, any soldier lay down with bones!