Military Review

The newspaper "Pravda" on the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-1940

260

The newspaper with which our story begins


Neither the jesters nor the fools scribblers
Do not embarrass your hearts anymore.
Your homeland was taken more than once -
We have come to return it to you.
Lyrics: Anatoly D'Actil (Frenkel), music: Daniel and Dmitry Pokrass


History in documents. Not so long ago, a series of articles devoted to the Soviet-Finnish war 1939-1940 took place at VO. The text of the articles was accompanied by photographs allowing you to see what was happening with your own eyes, and this is always a very correct decision by the author. However, serious materials of this kind, in my opinion, still need to be supported by documents and links to at least some sources. After all, whoever wrote about this war, in what kind of popular magazines no articles on this topic were found to me! There were materials in the newspaper “Secrets of the Twentieth Century”, in the Rodina magazine — well, just a lot, the Voprosy istorii magazine — even wrote with the help of documents from both sides, even the magazine Around the World — and he published several articles about “ Winter war! ” But where to get such materials? You can’t run into the archives of Moscow Region, where “everything is”. In order to get into the archive of the OK VKP (b) Leningrad, one must live there, the same story with the Russian State Humanitarian Foundation, in a word, finding something new on this topic is very, very difficult today. What about the photo? There is a Krasnogorsk archive of film and photo documents. For those who live in the Volga region, the KAPrivo archive is available, there are also very interesting photographs there, but this is all the time and money, which, as a rule, does not pay off with popular articles. However, there is a source that all historians should know and use in order to make their materials more interesting, to show events through the eyes of people of that era, through the prism of their perception and ... political conjuncture. This source, accessible to everyone and everyone: materials from the body of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks / CPSU - Pravda newspaper Every communist had to write it out and check its life path with its advanced articles. And if you don’t check, then ... what kind of communist are you then ?!

And today, we’ll try to tell you about the events of those distant years with the help of photocopies of the materials of this particular newspaper. Each photo will be given a short comment. The purpose of such comments is to draw attention to some interesting points of these newspaper materials, which a not very attentive reader (and there are, unfortunately, those on VO) may skip or leave without proper attention. So…


On November 10, this interesting article appeared in the newspaper. And she ... is really interesting in that it is an attempt to show the reader of Pravda that we have friends in Finland too, and of course London is to blame for Finland’s aggressive politics!


Detailed material about the anti-Soviet company in Finland. All is not bad, of course, but why is there a direct speech? As a rule, direct speech is introduced into the text of an article only when the author wishes to emphasize that he heard it himself. “Words” from words of others is not very professional


"Letter from Finland." One would expect confidence in such materials. But it is precisely they who usually cause the most distrust. Who led the conversation described in the material, where ... In a word, it would be better not to write like this than to write


War usually begins with such incidents. Especially when the war really wants a stronger side!


That was the indignation of our workers! Turned off the machines, quit work, and went to a rally! But only in the documents of the party archives there are ... instructions that such meetings should be organized, the number of participants should be rewritten, and reported to OK, who said what. That is - everything is organized and directed. And the question is - why are the rulers of Finland still pea jesters? What was their buffoonery? It seemed that they were shooting seriously!


But this is a note from the Government of Finland to the Government of the USSR regarding well-known events. There was also a response note by Molotov, but it is not interesting, therefore it is not given here. However, it is available in Pravda. Who wants can easily find and see


The message of popular indignation from Minsk. And here are the "pea jesters." Right ma'am, as we would say today


At night, the factory discussed the speech of Molotov. And when did you work? At work, you do not have to chat, but work with full dedication! Here is the best way to mischief the evil enemy, and from all these "discussions" he is neither hot nor cold


Since our citizens were deprived of the opportunity to read the foreign press, they had to take a word of it all ...


But this is just a masterpiece! Radio interception, and even translation from Finnish. You might think that the Finnish communists did not know the Russian language and could not directly contact the Soviet government on the radio? What was the money allocated to the Comintern for then?


How all is trite. We create a puppet government, help it gain a foothold in the country, then it “pays debts”. Reception is as old as the world!


Soviet citizens joyfully worry that an increase has occurred in their fraternal family of peoples!


Front-line reports appeared in the newspaper. At first they looked like this ...


We approve, and freed Finnish citizens approve too!


Soviet Finns in print are active!


But such messages could not be given at all. Because there were fighters and commanders who knew well how everything was “in truth”. And they could very well have blabbed later: by drinking, by stupidity, for the sake of a red word, or even out of harm. Their word bore weight! They fought! And ... how after their words to believe the "Truth", the newspaper of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b)?


Cats and dogs ... sorry. Relatives of this stupid Hutsunen, if he really existed, do not mind at all!


Then there was this ...


And then we will also demand not to leave the enemy a bundle of straw, not a liter of fuel, and even burn the house. A resident of them where to go in the frost in 30 degrees?


Then the messages from the front became very short ...

Well, now we will see the photos that were published in Pravda at the same time. All of them are very curious, although each in its own way.

For example, this one. Just a wonderful propaganda photo. On which our BT-7 tank is perfectly visible. Here the specialist will look at such a photo and ... involuntarily he will become unwell. Especially if he thinks, what if the Russians have a lot of these tanks on a Christie-style chassis, with sloping armor and clearly powerful aviation engine? And what will happen if their Stalin moves this armada on us?


November parade on Red Square. High level of motorization is evident.


Stalin and Voroshilov. In 1940, they were often portrayed together


And here is a very funny photo. The members of the Politburo are in hats, but Comrade Stalin is dressed very warmly. What to do, it was very cold in Russia in November 1940


Photo from the rally of "popular anger"


Caricature. Well, how can one do without it ... Previously, they painted on Hitler and Chamberlain, but after August 23 on Hitler it became impossible


And this is the T-26 tank in winter camouflage. The most interesting, however, is that this picture was taken about 10 days before the conflict began. But there is already snow on the border. The question is, what about the song on Suomi Beauty? There it’s about autumn, and when it snows, it’s already winter. So it turns out that the war should have started even earlier, that they even managed to order and write a “patriotic song” for it, but politicians didn’t grow together and the time had to be moved. And moved ... but the changes to the song just forgot to make. “And so it will do!” And it did! To the time!


And then there are three leaders and all of them are not only in power, but also the heroes of the Civil War. And all the others are simply gone


It is a tough job to stand at the helm of the state: look at the tanks, look at the planes, at the cars that are being prepared for production - and you also have to look at those!


To be continued ...
Author:
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  1. Comrade
    Comrade 8 December 2019 07: 05
    +5
    Thanks a lot, great selection! Special thanks for the photographs - today these are rarities.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Comrade
    Comrade 8 December 2019 07: 09
    -2
    More thanks for the excellent selection, special thanks for the fragments of newspapers with photos!
  4. water
    water 8 December 2019 07: 16
    +3
    The photographs are interesting, but the text is not covered by whitewash.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 15: 31
      +2
      Agency "Havas" sounds funny, of course, until you take an interest. And closer - this is the agency "Franspress" until 1944! I'm not hinting at anything, but until recently, French was considered a diplomatic language, and even the text of a driver's license in the USSR was duplicated in French!
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 8 December 2019 19: 19
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Agency "Havas" sounds funny, of course, until you take an interest. And closer - this is the agency "Franspress" until 1944! I'm not hinting at anything

        What can be hinted at here?
        Havas, the oldest news agency in the world, lost its independence in 1940, after the defeat of France in the war. Agency advertising department retains name Havas, and the information branch came under the control of the Vichy government and became known as the agency France-Presse.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 03: 29
          +1
          The fact that this is now France is the prdpinsky mongrel, and before the war she was a great power, and accordingly her leading news agency was not the last in the world.
          Quote: Comrade
          The agency’s advertising department retains the name Havas, and the information branch has come under the control of the Vichy government and has become known as France-Presse.

          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Agency "Havas" sounds funny, of course, until you take an interest. And closer - this is the agency "Franspress" until 1944
          Your comment was repeated mine, only verbose.
          1. Timofey Astakhov
            Timofey Astakhov 20 May 2021 16: 45
            0
            "prdpinskaya mongrel"
            would you somehow express yourself more clearly, tovaristch
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 21 May 2021 04: 33
              0
              Quote: Timofey Astakhov
              "prdpinskaya mongrel"
              Podppiindosskaya, just a local admin bot distorts such words godlessly, or even chicks at all, you have to get rid of it.
              1. Timofey Astakhov
                Timofey Astakhov 9 June 2021 22: 21
                -1
                but. well and rightly so, that "chirps at all."
                It is necessary not to "get out", but to respect the opponent, which is even more so as you are head and shoulders above you. Wouldn't you like it if the Americans called Russia Rashka? Well, so you have respect.
                America is a great country, a great nation. And by trying to humiliate her with different nicknames, you are actually humiliating yourself.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 10 June 2021 03: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: Timofey Astakhov
                  America is a great country, a great nation. And by trying to humiliate her with different nicknames, you are actually humiliating yourself.

                  Run to the US embassy, ​​get the money.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 11: 56
      0
      Quote: wwr
      The photographs are interesting, but the text is not covered by whitewash.
      Alas, there is a fact and there is its interpretation. This creative grantee has reached unprecedented heights. Its time to declare INA.
      1. kalibr
        11 December 2019 17: 01
        +1
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        grantee creative

        Why is the grantee interesting?
        1. Fraracol_2
          Fraracol_2 13 December 2019 13: 17
          0
          And they are constantly talking about it on TV, but their own thoughts are not enough.
      2. Timofey Astakhov
        Timofey Astakhov 9 June 2021 17: 30
        -1
        Oh well. Doesn't it hurt your eyes? and you can't erase words from a song.
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 8 December 2019 07: 20
    +6
    We have not read the newspaper Pravda with articles about the "Finnish" war! We were not buzzed then ... and then they did not read us; because. , were illiterate as a child! But at school, in history lessons, we were taught that at the end of the 30s, the "Finnish military" got the Soviet country with its "endless provocations and even artillery shelling ..."! At that time, a significant part of the Soviet territory (even some suburbs of Leningrad ...) were within the reach of Finnish artillery ... The Soviet government repeatedly offered Finland to "exchange" some territories, offering instead of Finnish territories in the "Leningrad direction", Soviet Karelian territories with an area much larger than the Finnish ..., which are the subject of "bargaining"! But the "Finnish bourgeois circles, encouraged by the Anglo-French militarists" did not stop their dastardly provocations, in the hope of achieving revenge! Which forced the Soviet government, grudgingly, to begin an event to "enforce peace"! PS USSR cinematography created documentaries and even feature films, which showed how Finnish workers in the territories liberated by the Red Army created volunteer detachments of the Finnish Red Army, which, together with units of the Red Army, fought the "Finnish military clique"! (I once watched such a "feature film" ... just don't remember the name, and the plot really ...) By the way, in 1940 the Karelo-Finnish Union Republic was formed, which became the 12th republic in the Union, and in later, 16th ... and the coat of arms was slightly different!
    1. kalibr
      8 December 2019 07: 45
      0
      Everything is so Vladimir! And they wanted revenge and hoped for the help of the West ... but ... behind all this there was ALL A LITTLE WRONG. No wonder they write that the devil is in the details. By the way, I found confirmation of this again in the newspapers and write about it. In the meantime ... everything is in front of you, read, see ... There will be a sequel - according to the newspapers already in 1940. I ordered them already. On Tuesday I’ll go to work in the archive.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 8 December 2019 08: 04
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        There will be a continuation - according to the newspapers already in 1940. I ordered them already. On Tuesday I’ll go to work in the archive.

        Good luck to you ! We will wait for the continuation ... hi
      2. YOUR
        YOUR 8 December 2019 08: 06
        +4
        It amazes me why they constantly consider Russia a weak country both then and now. They will get poke around the wort, the whining begins, oh how bad they are.
        A recent example of Georgia. This one from which he took a tie that can challenge us with impunity. Finland from the same series. For some reason, they decided that the northern bear would be overwhelmed especially without straining. Failed. Yes, so they still remember with trembling.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 8 December 2019 15: 54
          -1
          But the most dangerous thing is that in the same States there are those who are foolish about Lavrov, who believe that a disarming strike can be delivered to us.
        2. Freeman
          Freeman 8 December 2019 19: 56
          +2
          Quote: YOUR
          It amazes me why they constantly consider Russia a weak country both then and now. They will get poke around the wort, the whining begins, oh how bad they are.
          A recent example of Georgia. This one from which he took a tie that can challenge us with impunity. Finland from the same series. For some reason, they decided that the northern bear would be overwhelmed especially without straining. Failed. Yes, so they still remember with trembling.


          By the way. About "Russian bears" and Finns.
          There is such a photo, but Saakashvili apparently did not know about him.

          Soldiers of the Red Army on the fortifications in the city of Vyborg

          Photo by: Petrov
          Location: Vyborg
          Date: 1940
          Archive: Russian State Archive of Film and Photo Documents
          Archive number: arch. No. 0-127202
        3. DRM
          DRM 11 December 2019 12: 31
          +1
          Quote: YOUR
          It amazes me why they constantly consider Russia a weak country both then and now.

          So this is a strong USSR attacked a weak Finland and not vice versa.
          They will get poke around the wort, whining begins, oh how bad they are

          Given the losses and gains, this is the USSR
          got a tinsel
          not Finns.
        4. The comment was deleted.
      3. Octopus
        Octopus 8 December 2019 12: 28
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        I ordered them already.

        Hmm, like somewhere I saw the truth of those years in pdf.

        And the digging under the Soviet regime is credited. Moreover, these puppets of the West (nothing has been heard about the State Department yet, the Englishwoman was shitting), the atrocities of some gangs, the people's government of the people's republic. And the style, stories from the first person without the author's indication, a meaningless set of words from the officials. The Swedish newspaper tells about the "White Finns".

        And "Muscovites" so generally hit below the belt. What are you hinting at, whose mill are you pouring the water into?
        1. Timofey Astakhov
          Timofey Astakhov 9 June 2021 17: 33
          -1
          "What are you hinting at"
          and you read, read. It's not all about history to learn only from Soviet textbooks
      4. knn54
        knn54 8 December 2019 12: 30
        0
        Vyacheslav, if it works out, then ALWAYS find the book "The experience of the war in Finland". 1940
        Pravda. Was stamp "DSP", but today it is no longer relevant.
        Looking at the photographs in this book, the question arises, why were the procurers not held accountable along with some commanders ???
      5. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 17: 23
        0
        War usually begins with such incidents. Especially when the war really wants a stronger side!
        Finland was promised support from all over Europe. WIKI:
        Assistance to Finland on a different scale was provided by Great Britain, Hungary, Germany, Denmark, Italy, Norway, Poland, USA, France, Sweden and other countries. Finland received 350 aircraft, 500 guns, more than 6 thousand machine guns, about 100 thousand rifles and other weapons [1], as well as 650 thousand hand grenades, 2,5 million rounds and 160 million rounds. About 26 thousand volunteers arrived from 11,5 countries
        This is what they managed, they promised yet, but the war was over.
        the Prime Minister of the Polish government in exile, promised to send the Polish separate mountain brigade to help the Finns. Help was organized too late.

        Caliber: And the question is - why are the rulers of Finland still pea jesters? What was their buffoonery?
        And the buffoonery and foolishness of the rulers consisted in the fact that they believed that all of Europe "would go to battle for them." And Germany has already torn apart Poland, France is next. And who are they after that?
    2. Fraracol_2
      Fraracol_2 8 December 2019 09: 49
      -2
      "But at school, in history lessons, we were taught that at the end of the 30s, the" Finnish military "got the Soviet country with its" endless provocations and, even, artillery shelling ... "- and you believed?
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 8 December 2019 13: 32
        +2
        I was a teenager then and there was no reason for "internal torment"; there was only one source of information ... and at that time we were occupied with an urgent task: to learn a given lesson and, if asked, answer a good grade! Then for us it was more important than thinking about "truth and falsehood" in life! We thought about this later ...
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 15: 18
        +1
        Not mentioned practically in 84-55 in history. For the first time I learned about the Finnish war, so what would have been deposited in my memory, from Sobolev's "Sea stories", in middle school age.
      3. RUSS
        RUSS 8 December 2019 20: 31
        -2
        Quote: Fraancol_2
        "But at school, in history lessons, we were taught that at the end of the 30s, the" Finnish military "got the Soviet country with its" endless provocations and, even, artillery shelling ... "- and you believed?

        He still believes
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 03: 44
          0
          There were no counts of shelling, visits to Soviet territory, there was the destruction of the Russians, but you continue to believe in the gracious good-neighborly Finland
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 8 December 2019 13: 49
      0
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      and later, the 16th ... and the coat of arms was a little different!

      Nothing. We still have sixteen-sided glasses. wink
      1. Freeman
        Freeman 8 December 2019 18: 01
        +3
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        and later, the 16th ... and the coat of arms was a little different!

        Nothing. We still have sixteen-sided glasses. wink

        And a female figure, symbolizing the Karelo-Finnish SSR, in the ensemble of the Friendship of Peoples fountain at the Exhibition of Economic Achievements in Moscow.

      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 December 2019 18: 06
        +1
        Yes, Vladimir! Vera Ignatievna joked very subtly.
  6. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 8 December 2019 07: 22
    +1
    DPRK reminds modern.
    1. Deck
      Deck 8 December 2019 08: 14
      +4
      Only the DPRK? wink
  7. tlauicol
    tlauicol 8 December 2019 07: 51
    0
    “During December 27, nothing significant happened at the front”
    yeah, really
  8. Professor
    Professor 8 December 2019 08: 03
    -3
    Chic article. Shapo to the author. good Still such a selection of Finnish newspapers.

    I especially liked this:

    Nothing changes to 1/6 1/7 sushi.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 13: 18
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      Chic article. Shapo to the author. good Still such a selection of Finnish newspapers.

      I especially liked this:

      Nothing changes to 1/6 1/7 sushi.

      Well, yes, well, yes, "the raid on the regions of Murmansk and 60 planes destroyed at the same time" is a holy truth, of course.
      Where scans of articles, the author’s comments can still be understood, but his comments under the photo are frankly unreasonable.
      "And of course London is to blame for Finland's aggressive policy!" what to do, then Washington in anti-Sovietism-Russophobia was still not particularly fierce.
      "Everything is not bad, of course, but why is direct speech here? As a rule, direct speech is introduced into the text of an article only when the author wants to emphasize that he heard it himself."... "As a rule" - the author of this article came up with such a rule himself?
      "It is with such incidents that wars usually begin. Especially when the stronger side really wants a war!" Or when the weak side has "lost his sense" and sense of reality. The Finns have repeatedly shelled Soviet territory and citizens, many times and long before Mainila.
      “That was the indignation of our workers! ...... and went to rally! But the documents of the party archives contain… instructions that such rallies need to be organized, ........ That is, everything is organized and orchestrated. And the question is - why are the rulers of Finland jesters peas? " - Perhaps the author of the article believes that the Maidan was spontaneous? Well, a meeting and a meeting, or did he go for days? If a crowd came to smash the Finnish embassy, ​​would it be better? "Foolish peas" - perhaps it would be worthwhile to write "stupid people who are crazy", but then the Soviet officialdom did not even express itself about a very likely enemy that way.
      "And this is a note from the Finnish government to the USSR government about the well-known events. There was also Molotov's reply, but it is not interesting, so it is not given here." Did the Finns print Molotov’s response note? The author of the article was shy, she was not interested, he read it, that’s enough.
      "And then" jesters are pea. "Downright ma'am"Ma'am, it's like sir, only ma'am, is the author accustomed to addressing the authorities like this? It can turn into a MEM."
      "At night at the plant we discussed Molotov's speech. And when did you work? At work you shouldn't talk." The devil rally apparently dragged on, I was wrong a little, but it is better to hold a rally at night than to work hard, the author apparently didn’t work at night.

      "Since our citizens were deprived of the opportunity to read the foreign press, they had to take all this at their word ..." How would we NOW be able to observe the Russophobic tone of both tribalt and Nenki and Poland, so that one could believe Soviet propaganda in this matter.
      "But this is just a masterpiece! Radio interception, and even a translation from Finnish. You might think that the Finnish communists did not know Russian and could not directly contact the Soviet government via radio."The Soviet government tried to conduct, and conducted as far as possible, its affairs honestly, and probably demanded the same from its protégé! So the program was broadcast in Finnish, I have no doubts! It's another matter that it was dubbed in Russian, I have no doubt either."
      "How commonplace it is. We create a puppet government, help it gain a foothold in the country, then it" pays debts. "The reception is as old as the world!"What is possible for" civilized countries ", of course, is impossible for the USSR / Russia? Truly an anti-Soviet is always a Russophobe!
      "Soviet citizens are joyfully worried that an addition has occurred in their fraternal family of nations!" How was it with Crimea do not remind?
      Further military propaganda, which was mostly clumsy, but to exaggerate the loss of the enemy and the success of their troops is simply obliged!
      "And this is a T-26 tank in winter camouflage. The most interesting thing, however, is that this picture was taken about 10 days before the start of the conflict. But there is already snow on the border. The question is, what about the song about" Suomi-beauty "? then we are talking about autumn, and when the snow lies, it is already winter " Is the author not living in Russia, or does he have a special calendar? In November, snow may be in full swing, despite the fact that November is generally the autumn month.
      "It is a difficult matter to be at the helm of the state: look at the tanks, look at the planes, at the cars that are being prepared for production - and you also need to look at those!" Whether business now, at a parade once a year looked, and it is good. No meetings with designers and directors of the flagship factories.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 31
        +3
        The author of the article is trying to respond to my comment.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 54
          +3
          The author of the article bravely dealt with my comment, though at the very bottom of the branch, it was far from far away, for far from all positions, with the words: “It's not me, this is how the computer arranges it.
          Correctly I used direct speech, did I emphasize that I heard it myself?
      2. Kirill Dou
        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 10: 44
        -5
        "How commonplace it is. We create a puppet government, help it gain a foothold in the country, then it" pays debts. "The reception is as old as the world!" What is possible for "civilized countries" is certainly not possible for the USSR / Russia? Truly an anti-Soviet is always a Russophobe!
        - so the USSR (and Russia now) is morally opposed to the "imperialist West". On VO you can find a bunch of comments and articles about how local "hurray" call Japan a "colony" of the United States, for example, the Americans are accused of creating puppet governments, etc.

        And it turns out that the USSR began to pursue such a policy long before the United States.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 10: 46
          +3
          Long time? You do not know about banana republics, presumably.
          1. Kirill Dou
            Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 11: 05
            -4
            Yes, it's my fault. I forgot. Okay, I'll change the last phrase to "The USSR pursued the same policy as the vile imperialists from the USA")) So you feel better?
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 11: 37
              +4
              Yes, if only you didn’t worry, I’m aware that this is not so, after all, the USSR was trying to agree and all that ...
              1. Kirill Dou
                Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 11: 49
                -4
                Well, Western countries are also trying to negotiate. The Americans, before bending Saddam a second time, gave him an ultimatum several times. But they are still "evil imperialists", and the USSR / Russia "fighter for peace who has to live among wolves"?
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 11: 53
                  +4
                  If you agree and put forward an ultimatum for you the same thing, then what can we talk about?
                  1. Kirill Dou
                    Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 11: 57
                    -4
                    So the USSR Finns, in fact, did the same. The Finns did not agree to land exchange (had every right) - and the USSR began the war. What is the difference?
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 12: 11
                      +4
                      Do not work under the fool.
                      1. Kirill Dou
                        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 12: 12
                        -4
                        I do not work for you. So what's the difference?
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 12: 32
                        +5
                        Between you and the fool? It’s already obvious that no.
                      3. Kirill Dou
                        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 12: 35
                        -3
                        Between you and the fool? It’s already obvious that no.
                        - there is a huge difference between me and you. In particular, I can at least answer a clearly posed question. And you have a problem with that.
                      4. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 12: 38
                        +4
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        If you agree and put forward an ultimatum for you the same thing, then what can we talk about?

                        You did not answer this question, neither clearly nor fuzzily.
                      5. Kirill Dou
                        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 12: 55
                        -3
                        He answered himself with a concrete example. The fact that you could not (and most likely did not want) to overpower this example is exclusively your problem.
                      6. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 14: 00
                        +3
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        If you agree and put forward an ultimatum for you the same thing, then what can we talk about?
                        Is it the same thing for you to agree and put forward an ultimatum?
                        Why wagging, just answer yes or no.
                      7. Kirill Dou
                        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 14: 12
                        -4
                        Yes, an ultimatum is one of the negotiation strategies. The ultimatum party offers the opponent a choice between strict compliance with the requirements or more severe consequences in case of failure. Fulfillment of the ultimatum conditions allows us to agree, although not on equal terms.

                        So what is the difference between the USSR and the West?)
                      8. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 14: 44
                        +3
                        The arrangement and the ultimatum are the same for you. Yeah, diplomats do not care for you.
                        Quote: Kirill Dou
                        So what is the difference between the USSR and the West?)

                        Quote: Kirill Dou
                        The Americans, before bending Saddam a second time, gave him an ultimatum several times. But they are still "evil imperialists", and the USSR / Russia "fighter for peace who has to live among wolves"?
                        The difference between the USSR during the "Winter War" (two years maximum) and the United States of the last 120 years is that the USSR did not seek to cash in on the territory of its neighbors, but acted strictly in order to ensure its security, pushing the land border, and even breaking the Line did not finish off to to hell with Finland, having all the possibilities for this. The United States, however, has always sought to trample the enemy "into the stone age" and certainly did not offer at least some of its lands in exchange for controversial ones.
                      9. Kirill Dou
                        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 16: 03
                        -3
                        "The agreement and the ultimatum are the same for you
                        - there is an ultimatum one of the methods negotiating. Is this your third time to write?

                        that the USSR did not seek to profit from the territory of its neighbors,
                        - so why then joined the territories of, say, Central Asia or Poland (in 1939), the same Baltic states? just so that it was?) And did not conduct economic activity on them, and did not mine minerals, right?

                        and even breaking through the Line he didn’t finish to hell with Finland, having all the possibilities.
                        - oh, well, the Americans did not finish off Mexico in the Mexican-American war, "Although they had all the possibilities."

                        and certainly did not offer at least some of their land in exchange for the controversial.
                        - The USA, on a rental basis (that is, for a fee), uses the territory of Guantanamo in Cuba. Territory in exchange for money.
                      10. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 16: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: Kirill Dou
                        an ultimatum is one way of negotiating. Is this your third time to write?
                        Only in your special reality.
                        Ultimatum (lat. Ultimatum - completed) - a requirement related to the limitation of time given for its execution, as well as the threat of serious consequences if it is not fulfilled

                        Quote: Kirill Dou
                        Central Asia or Poland (in 1939), the same Baltic? just so that it is?

                        I understand that you are not a reader, but a writer, perhaps a great one, but still I will repeat it again
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        acted strictly in order to ensure their safety, pushing the land border

                        Quote: Kirill Dou
                        oh, well, so the Americans did not finish off Mexico in the Mexican-American war, "Although they had all the possibilities"

                        They broke off all the possibilities:
                        And American politicians and journalists, intoxicated by victories, insisted on pushing the boundaries of the American Empire all the way to Guatemala. However, the outbreak of the American Civil War halted American expansion.
                        Quote: Kirill Dou
                        - The USA, on a rental basis (that is, for a fee), uses the territory of Guantanamo in Cuba. Territory in exchange for money.
                        Oh yes, the way it is:
                        After the victory of the 1959 revolution, the Cuban government demanded that the US government return the territory and water area of ​​the Guantanamo Naval Base [2] and refused to accept base rental payments from the United States.
                        During the Caribbean Crisis of 1962, Guantanamo Base was blocked by Cuban armed forces.
                        On May 21, 1966, a Cuban border guard Luis Ramirez Lopez was killed by a shot from the US Marine Corps at Guantanamo Base. [5]
                        After the appearance in 2002 in the territory of the prison base, the Cuban government tried (unsuccessfully) to terminate the lease agreement and achieve the evacuation of the base, arguing that it was a violation of the rental conditions
                      11. Kirill Dou
                        Kirill Dou 10 December 2019 00: 26
                        -1
                        Only in your special reality.
                        - in my normal reality, where people understand at least something in the theory of communication and negotiation strategies:
                        http://www.wibes.ru/advice/peregovory-priemi-metodi/

                        . acted strictly in order to ensure its security, pushing the land border
                        - laughing an excellent argument that can justify any land grab)) The Americans also annexed Mexican lands to "ensure their security")) And Iraq was also attacked in 2003 to "protect themselves from international terrorism supported by Saddam")

                        And American politicians and journalists, intoxicated by victories, insisted on pushing the boundaries of the American Empire all the way to Guatemala. However, the outbreak of the American Civil War halted American expansion.


                        The Mexican War ended in 1848, and the US Civil War began in 1861. The difference between these events is 13 years. What does the US Civil War have to do with the Mexican War, which ended 10 years earlier?

                        After the victory of the 1959 revolution, the Cuban government demanded that the US government return the territory and water area of ​​the Guantanamo Naval Base
                        - And with what fright should the US comply with the requirements of the group that illegally seized power in Cuba if the US leased agreement with the previous government? Are you for our government to comply with the requirements of the new Ukrainian government to give Crimea? No? So why should the Americans have done otherwise?
      3. Fraracol_2
        Fraracol_2 13 December 2019 13: 36
        -2
        Here is your every pearl masterpiece. It seems that you were only born yesterday. But I especially liked:
        "The Soviet government tried to conduct, and conducted as far as possible, its affairs honestly, and probably demanded the same from its protégé! So the program was broadcast in Finnish, I have no doubts!"
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 8 December 2019 18: 27
      +1
      Good idea! It also occurred to me.
  9. bistrov.
    bistrov. 8 December 2019 08: 10
    +14
    "... it is a difficult matter to be at the helm of the state .... ..."
    Question to the author: why is this irony? The Soviet authorities of that time defended the interests of the state much better than, for example, the EBN, the "hunchback" or today's liberal government ...
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 18: 02
      +4
      But Russophobes of such authors, of course, Soviet power.
    2. Kirill Dou
      Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 11: 06
      -1
      The interests of the state - perhaps even for sure. The interests of the people are doubtful.
  10. Olgovich
    Olgovich 8 December 2019 08: 13
    -4
    Create puppet government, help him gain a foothold in the country

    And he led this "government Otto Kuusinenwho fled from Finland at one time.

    He was one of the leaders of the Comintern, advocated the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat in all countries.

    By his living example, he showed that the USSR "did not try" to establish comm. regimes outside the USSR.

    Naturally, his "government", recognized by the USSR, quietly disappeared by the end of the Winter War. Interestingly, his children lived at that time in ... Finland

    But the comrade did not disappear: he was appointed head of the created new owl. the state Karelo-Finnish SSR-another crime against Russia and its integrity. By area, more half of Finland.
    It is terrible to imagine WHAT would happen in the Russian North today if Khrushchev had not eliminated this freak in 1956: the Kola Peninsula would not have a land border with Russia today, the border would again be near St. Petersburg, and Finland would become Great.

    Interesting that his wife Aino Kuusinen, repeated the path of many wives of the highest persons of owls. state-Molotov, Kalinin, Budyonny, etc.: was arrested and exiled for 8 years to the camps. But she worked with Sorge in Japan!

    True, it was not privileged as K. Kalinina (the wife of the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, combating, combed nits from the clothes of the ZK at the bathhouse), and worked in the field. Passed the camps, left for Finland, where she wrote murderous memoirs about everything ....

    Kuusinen, with his living camp wife, quietly married ... once again and safely lived the life of a nomenclature worker ....
    1. ABM
      ABM 8 December 2019 09: 04
      +4
      it is strange that you do not know this: In the second half of 1937 a decision was made to recall Sorge and liquidate his entire residency. He did not come. However, for the purpose of reconnaissance, the residency is maintained, but with a dubious signature stamp “politically inferior” - “probably opened by the enemy and working under his control”. Residency funding has been discontinued ... so working with a potential traitor Sorge is not the best that can be credited.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 8 December 2019 11: 52
        -7
        Quote: ABM
        it is strange that you do not know this: In the second half of 1937 a decision was made to recall Sorge and liquidate his entire residency. He did not come. However, for the purpose of reconnaissance, the residency is maintained, but with a dubious signature stamp “politically inferior” - “probably opened by the enemy and working under his control”. Residency funding has been discontinued ... so working with a potential traitor Sorge is not the best that can be credited.

        Sorge the traitor? No?
        What is it about then? Of course, she acted more stupidly than Sorge, having returned in 1937 to death. but she complied with the order.

        However, rightly so: for what I fought, that's why.
  11. kalibr
    8 December 2019 08: 13
    -2
    Quote: Professor
    Still such a selection of Finnish newspapers.

    I don’t know Finnish and I have to go to Finland. By the way, the problem of the Russian historian is POVERTY. Even a working professor cannot afford to go, say, for two weeks a year, to work in the Vatican library, in the map department of the Maritime Museum of Barcelona, ​​in Finland ... Only on his vacation! But what about ... money, relaxation? But even if he went, the result will not pay off!
    1. Professor
      Professor 8 December 2019 14: 21
      0
      1. In fact, you have already done a wonderful job, but it would be interesting to see how the Finns "slandered".
      2. Have you come across Scriabin’s statements that hungers are dropped on Helsinki, not bombs? Looking for a collection.
      3. The archives of Moscow Region are still classified, so that “everything is there,” but not for everyone.
      4. It is unfortunate to hear about the financing of your science.
    2. rus-b4
      rus-b4 8 December 2019 14: 34
      +1
      So-so historian, he laid out the articles at his discretion and supplied with caustic comments, if Soviet citizens did not read foreign newspapers, then the historian could have become acquainted, not only Finnish but also English and German, and some conclusion for us is stupid (without caustic comments own conclusions do not know how to do) take out.
  12. kalibr
    8 December 2019 08: 16
    0
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Good luck to you ! We will wait for the continuation ...

    Most interesting! In addition, there is an idea in parallel to see the documents of the party archive for the same period. How OK Penza Bolsheviks responded to the challenges of our time ...
  13. 1536
    1536 8 December 2019 08: 20
    +1
    The opinion of the Finn is interesting. Nothing has changed since then?
  14. kalibr
    8 December 2019 08: 48
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    Kuusinen, with his living camp wife, quietly married ... once again and safely lived the life of a nomenclature worker ....

    A man of high communist morality and morality!
    1. Fraracol_2
      Fraracol_2 13 December 2019 13: 42
      -1
      But what were the opposite examples?
  15. Plantagenet
    Plantagenet 8 December 2019 09: 00
    -1
    "On January 5 in Paris-soir appeared an article about the
    163rd division in the Suomussalmi area. Correspondent
    Henri Danju telephoned from Rovaniemi:

    “On January 3 I returned from Suomussalmi, from the last field
    major Finnish victory. I saw a picture of the incredible
    rout. In a circle of 2 kilometers 400 horsepower
    corpses. Their riders froze in deadly stillness
    aside. Division equipment left on shore
    Lake Kianta-järvi. 150 cars captured, 15
    tanks (Henri Danju, despite his military post
    correspondent, could not distinguish the tank from the armored
    tractor "Komsomolets., shown in the picture), 27 guns,
    500 rifles, 22 easel, 37 hand
    and 4 anti-aircraft machine guns, 300 carts and 400 live horses.
    In the room occupied by the command - half
    drunk vodka bottles captured
    glasses left on the table (who will believe that even
    during the most desperate escape, Russian or Soviet
    will an officer leave an unfinished bottle of vodka? - only
    foreigner). All evidence of erratic flight ... ".

    Here, by the way, the journalist does not seem to be lying:
    his descriptions of finnish trophies basically match
    with information about the losses of the headquarters of the 163rd Infantry Division. "

    P. Aptekar "Soviet-Finnish Wars"
  16. Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 8 December 2019 09: 00
    +2
    The author for the material THANKS A LOT! This is a real texture, not a vertical Internet one with multiple links to some unknown site. Of course, I disagree with many of the author's conclusions, but this is his business ... I will wait for the continuation. I will only note that propaganda at all times has been the ideological basis of any war - this is how our world works. Therefore, everyone who is involved in an event chooses his own side of the "front" and believes in what he wants to believe. By the way - a question for thought: why the events on Khalkhin Gol, near Lake Khasan in our society with almost universal "approval", and similar events of the same period in Europe - almost always "not approved", well, or "silence" as with Spain ?
    1. bistrov.
      bistrov. 8 December 2019 09: 17
      +2
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      why the events on Khalkhin-Gol, near Lake Khasan in our society with almost universal "approval",

      And what have “Khalkhin Gol” and “Lake Khasan” to do with it? How do they relate to some "European events"? Or with events in Spain? About the "silence", explain what you mean?
      1. Vitaly Tsymbal
        Vitaly Tsymbal 8 December 2019 09: 32
        +1
        And what have “Khalkhin Gol” and “Lake Khasan” to do with it? How do they relate to some "European events"?

        Maybe you think that there were two states on the territory of the USSR - the European USSR and the Asian USSR? The events of that time that took place in Europe and Asia were very closely related and not only in the USSR, but also in England, France, Germany, Spain, etc. I will give an example: at the end of the 30s, fascist Germany had a very large influence on the territory of Afghanistan, even a plan was developed to create military formations from former Basmachi (somewhere from 50 to 200 thousand soldiers) that were supposed to attack under the leadership of German officers Soviet Turkestan, thanks to the joint operational activities of Soviet and British intelligence in 1942-43, this "problem" was radically solved. Until 1944, a powerful military group was stationed on the southern border of the USSR, which, even in November 1941, was not touched and was not transferred to the front near Moscow. So what does it have to do with seemingly Asian Afghanistan and fascist Europe?
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 15: 24
      +5
      Yes Yes. The author has so blotted out articles that are inconvenient for him, and he is not embarrassed by this, there are no conclusions yet, there will be a continuation, but since the anti-Soviet is always Russophobe, the conclusions are not in doubt.
  17. Hantengri
    Hantengri 8 December 2019 10: 00
    +4
    "Letter from Finland." One would expect confidence in such materials. But it is precisely they who usually cause the most distrust. Who led the conversation described in the material, where ... In a word, it would be better not to write like that than to write

    Vyacheslav Olegovich, it’s you who, with your knowledge, cause distrust. It seems to me that you do not take into account the fact that the level of education of a significant part of the target audience, at that time, was good if grades 7 ... So, the clumsiness of propaganda techniques was perhaps even justified.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 8 December 2019 14: 44
      +3
      Quote: HanTengri
      the clumsiness of propaganda tricks was perhaps even justified.

      Greetings, Igor.
      It seems to me difficult to justify clumsy anything at all, and there is no need to justify it. Vyacheslav Olegovich has already answered you within the framework of his favorite Pareto law smile and you can agree with him -
      Quote: kalibr
      20% have a very strong informational impact on 80 ...

      The task of state propaganda at that time was primarily to influence these 20%, which subsequently will form the opinion of the remaining 80%. Since the latter is mostly a damn thing, they are interested in most of the questions from case to case and they will not be engaged in searching for information in old newspapers or books - they will ask an authoritative person - the foreman, chairman, and just a fellow villager who is considered smart.
      It is now the media have the ability to literally wade into every house and impose a certain position on each individual, forming "public opinion." At the end of the thirties, there was no such opportunity, the available means could cover only a small, most active and developed part of the population, which would then inevitably broadcast the information received to the masses.
      Therefore, mistakes in the choice of methods of state propaganda, its "clumsy" will in any case be unforgivable.
      And still, a respected author of the article (Vyacheslav Olegovich, my respect hi smile ), in my opinion, is not quite right in his criticisms, because he assesses the work of Soviet propagandists from the heights of today's knowledge and skills in this area, which have gone very far ahead for 80 years. It is difficult to say whose propaganda in those years was more convincing - Stalinist, Hitler or Western-bourgeois, but in general both the one and the third managed their task, so our Soviet journalists’s assessment of such a severe assessment that the author gives them don't deserve it.
  18. kalibr
    8 December 2019 10: 47
    +1
    Quote: HanTengri
    distrust with your knowledge. It seems to me that you do not take into account the fact that the level of education of a significant part of the target audience, at that time, was good if grades 7 ... So, the clumsiness of propaganda techniques was perhaps even justified.

    You are right and wrong at the same time. Even among the peasants (!) There were people ... "with distrust" who asked very "harmful" questions to the lecturers of the All-Union Communist Party of the Soviet Union (b.). I even wrote about it in one of the articles in the "Poisoned Feather" series. That is, our people were NOT AS STUPID as it sometimes seems. I come across this all the time, reading documents from the party archive. On the one hand - oak trees, "and I also eat there", and on the other ... very smart peasants, workers meet all the time! That is 80% and 20% at least! And here it should be borne in mind that just 20% have a very strong informational impact on 80 ...
  19. kalibr
    8 December 2019 10: 52
    -1
    Quote: bistrov.
    Question to the author: why this irony?

    Why irony? This is really hard work, isn't it?
  20. Alevil
    Alevil 8 December 2019 11: 19
    +2
    Very interesting stuff. The articles are very interesting and verified, taking into account the information war, which, naturally, was waged by the Soviet Union.
    I recalled excerpts from the Polish articles of September 1939. In terms of delirium, lies and inept propaganda of the Poles, hardly anyone is outdating. It is possible that only ancient Ukrainians are capable of something similar.
  21. Nikolai Miracles
    Nikolai Miracles 8 December 2019 11: 27
    +1
    In the same style:
  22. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 07
    0
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    The author has so blotted out articles that are uncomfortable for him

    Are they in the newspaper? You would have asked at first ... Of course, there are a lot more materials about general "approvals" than I gave.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 23
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      There was also Molotov's reply note, but it is not interesting, so it is not given here "Did the Finns publish Molotov's reply note? The author of the article was ashamed, it is not interesting, he read it, that's enough.

      If it didn’t, then what is it?
  23. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 10
    -4
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    the continuation will be, but since the anti-adviser is always Russophobe

    What nonsense, you write my dear. That is, the collapsed "scoop" and Russia, which is alive, are they identical concepts? Well, I do not. Scoop - scoop, and Russia - Russia.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 21
      +7
      This can be continued for a long time, until Russia clings to the borders of the Moscow Region.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 03: 47
      +3
      Present-day Russia is alive only thanks to nuclear weapons and the remnants of former power created by the Soviet people.
  24. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 15
    -5
    Quote: rus-b4
    then the historian could get acquainted, and not only Finnish but also English and German, and take out some stupid conclusion for us (they can’t draw their own conclusions without caustic comments)

    And what pennies are they? Do you know what the salary of a modern high school assistant professor or professor is, and is it possible to go to such a place like this in a year to work abroad on an article? Not pay off. But most importantly, other authors do not do this, but you swallow their writings and rejoice.
  25. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 17
    -1
    Quote: Professor
    Have you come across Scriabin’s statements that hungers are dumped on Helsinki, not bombs? Looking for a collection.
    3. The archives of Moscow Region are still classified, so that “everything is there,” but not for everyone.

    Dear Oleg! Archive of Moscow Region in Podolsk is generally open. You can make a request there and ... I did, for example, a request to the archive of the Navy and everyone found me, but it cost 1450 r. So you can try. But I myself do not know these facts.
  26. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 24
    +1
    Quote: bistrov.
    Perhaps the author of the article believes that the Maidan was spontaneous? Well, a meeting and a meeting, or did he go for days? If a crowd came to smash the Finnish embassy, ​​would it be better? "Foolish peas" - perhaps it would be worthwhile to write "stupid people who are crazy", but then the Soviet officialdom did not even express itself about a very likely enemy that way.

    What is this strange way of translating arrows? And then the Maidan. It is about organized popular approval in 1939. There is confirmation of this in party documents. About the Maidan is a separate conversation. And all kinds of insults to the enemy in the press are simply stupid. Because extremes are always harmful. And then "bloody cannibal Hitler" before August 23, 1939 and "Mr. Hitler is the chancellor of the German people" after ... sounds a little ... strange.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 29
      +4
      The reaction of people, even directed and controlled, is not bad propaganda material. People could be cheated against the embassy, ​​but they did not.
      Quote: kalibr
      And then the "bloody cannibal Hitler" before August 23, 1939 and "Mr. Hitler is the chancellor of the German people" after
      Will there be scans about the bloody cannibal Hitler? Huge doubts. The author of the article is embarrassed to answer my comment directly, somewhere in the corner and from afar.
      1. kalibr
        8 December 2019 17: 44
        +2
        Do you so want to read about it? Firstly, you don't have to wait: type in the search engine "friendship sealed with blood" (Germany and the USSR, the newspaper PRAVDA) - there will be materials. Then you can go to my profile or, again, use the search engine to find the cycle of articles "Poisoned Feather". There are materials on the war period with links to ALL articles that interest you. Finally, everything can be found in Pravda if you search the Web. But you gave me a great idea - the topic "The Image of Hitler in the Pravda newspaper. I'll have to sit over the files from 1933 to 1945. But it's worth it, haha. In parallel, you can find a lot of interesting things!"
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 18: 37
          +1
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Will there be scans about the bloody cannibal Hitler
          Those. will there be no scans about the bloody cannibal Hitler in the pre-war Soviet press?
          Quote: kalibr
          blood bonded friendship
          That Stalin and Hitler congratulated each other is not news.
          1. kalibr
            8 December 2019 22: 37
            +1
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Will there be scans about the bloody cannibal Hitler
            Those. will there be no scans about the bloody cannibal Hitler in the pre-war Soviet press?

            They wrote to you: there will be several articles, one for sure: "The image of Hitler in the Soviet press in the 30-40s." They wrote to you about this in Russian and said thank you too. But this is not tomorrow! It is necessary to go to the archive, order heavy files, leaf through them, photograph, write ... this is not a work for one day. And I have 14 articles in the queue for publication. So you have to wait.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 03: 41
              0
              We will wait
              Quote: kalibr
              scans about the bloody cannibal Hitler in the pre-war Soviet press
          2. Doctor
            Doctor 8 December 2019 23: 08
            +3
            That Stalin and Hitler congratulated each other is not news.


            Yes, that was the case. Moreover, along with the right Finns and Chinese.



            And the answer.

            TELEGRAM OF THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE CC OF THE CPSU (B.) I. V. STALIN HEAD OF THE GERMAN STATE A. GITLERU
            Berlin,
            26th of December 1939
            I ask you to accept my appreciation for the congratulations and gratitude for your good wishes regarding the peoples of the Soviet Union.
            J. Stalin


            Diplomacy is called, however.
  27. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 26
    0
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Did the Finns print Molotov’s response note? The author of the article was shy, she was not interested, he read it, that’s enough.

    Pravda has printed it. And whether the Finns published it, I cannot know. Want to sponsor my trip to Helsinki to the State Archives? So tell me ... consider the options!
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 16
      +2
      Why didn't you bring it? The author of the article "Pravda" did not take it in Finland, he could have placed a scan.
      1. kalibr
        8 December 2019 17: 25
        +2
        Could and lead. But the text is big. There is nothing new from what Samsonov wrote in three articles about the response note. Why then take a seat? Anyone can find it on the Web. Not difficult.
  28. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 28
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    What is possible for "civilized countries" is certainly not possible for the USSR / Russia?

    But the Germans strangled people in gas chambers, and in the USA they shot Indians from mitraliasis. Take an example from them? They can, but what are we worse? What cattle reasoning.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 14
      +1
      And what is so modest? At the very bottom of the branch to the question "answer"?
      1. kalibr
        8 December 2019 17: 19
        -2
        It's not me who answers, this is how the computer puts it.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 33
          +2
          You even lie in such trifles, specially checked.
          1. Kirill Dou
            Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 10: 53
            -1
            Vyacheslav doesn’t lie - this also happens to me often.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 18
      +5
      The puppet government is not exactly a gas chamber. What cattle manipulation with completely different concepts.
  29. kalibr
    8 December 2019 16: 33
    -2
    Quote: knn54
    knn54 (Nikolai) Today, 12: 30
    -1
    Vyacheslav, if it works out, then ALWAYS find the book "The experience of the war in Finland". 1940
    Pravda. Was stamp "DSP", but today it is no longer relevant.
    Looking at the photographs in this book, the question arises, why were the procurers not held accountable along with some commanders ???

    Dear Nicholas! Thank you for your assistance. But hardly. I have a narrow specialization: sources, material culture ... that is, what newspapers wrote and what is in the archives is interesting. Physically, there is no time for everything else.
  30. ccsr
    ccsr 8 December 2019 17: 06
    +6
    Author:
    Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    November parade on Red Square. High level of motorization is evident.

    Firstly, the parade in Minsk and not in Moscow.
    And secondly, the irony is inappropriate, because the artillery tractors were not enough in the Red Army, which is why our artillery was so unsuccessful at the initial stage of the war.
    As for the assessment of the Finnish war, it should be studied from the work of professional military personnel, and not from journalistic articles, which in Pravda were more propagandistic than analytical.
    For example, there is interesting material:
    The results and lessons of the Soviet-Finnish war
    WAR # 4/1990, pp. 33-39
    The war showed the lag of the Soviet Army from the general pace of progress in military affairs. Many issues of military construction were resolved slowly, as a rule, using outdated provisions, taken mainly from the experience of the civil war. After analyzing the state of the Armed Forces, the military-political leadership came to the conclusion: in order to successfully repel aggression and wage a modern war, a radical restructuring is needed. At a meeting of the Main Military Council on April 17, JV Stalin made a big speech acknowledging the fact that the cult of traditions and experience of the civil war prevented a restructuring, a transition to the rails of modern warfare. He urged to study the archives of the Germans, French, Russians in the imperialist war.

    The Main Military Council recommended that obsolete models of military equipment be removed from service and the development of new ones began. The combat training, organization and organization of the troops of the Soviet Army was prescribed to be conducted taking into account the experience of the war in Finland. The united states of rifle, tank, artillery and special units and formations for peacetime and wartime were established. Measures were taken to provide the army with charters.

    http://militaryarticle.ru/voennaya-mysl/1990-vm/8296-itogi-i-uroki-sovetsko-finljandskoj-
    And the documents of those years are now available so as not to bother with newspaper articles:
    1. kalibr
      8 December 2019 17: 22
      -2
      I am glad that you are reading serious publications. Finally! But no one studies the "war" from newspaper articles. How did you decide? As a PR and advertising specialist, the author of 6 textbooks on this topic in Russia and Germany, I am interested in exactly how "the press hangs on the ears." Isn't it clear from the text of the article?
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 8 December 2019 17: 43
        +6
        Quote: kalibr
        interests exactly how "the press hangs noodles on the ears." Isn't it clear from the text of the article?

        So she has been hanging noodles since the Napoleonic wars, so for those who are interested in military affairs professionally, this is not a reliable source of information, the custom nature of such articles is too obvious. And what's the point then to study the Finnish war on the basis of the press? You will still remain in ignorance as everything was in reality, until you take up serious sources. It turns out that your work was created for the sake of the work itself.
      2. Vitaly Tsymbal
        Vitaly Tsymbal 8 December 2019 18: 31
        +4
        Sorry to interfere with your dialogue, but I just want to remind you that PR and advertising specialist is not a propaganda specialist because these are very different directions. For example, I studied the subject "Propaganda and counterpropaganda" at the military-political school (77-81), and the subject "PR and advertising" at the university (90-95). There is also practical experience in both subjects. Believe me, from the point of view of propaganda (imposing a certain ideological attitude on society), hanging "noodles" or manipulating public consciousness (PR and advertising) is short-lived and counterproductive. "Propaganda" carried out within the framework of the "PR and advertising" methodology is still to study biology with the "tools" of philosophers. Therefore, you are unlikely to be able to draw the right conclusions and manipulate the mind of the reader. Well done, you came to publication in this form (real articles from real newspapers in real time), it is more correct to trace how the Soviet propaganda of the war with Finland changed in the newspapers of that time.
        1. kalibr
          8 December 2019 20: 04
          0
          Vitaly! It is very nice that you understand ... I will not argue with you. I can only say that you were taught this at the university, and I taught this, from 1995 to 2017. And I was a propagandist and counter-propagandist along the parties from 1982 to 1991. I have recently published three textbooks on PR and advertising - PR-design and PR-promotion, and Public opinion management technologies. I have been giving this course to masters for the last 5 years. By the way, if you are interested, go to the profile and look there my articles on PR published on VO, there are many interesting things.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 9 December 2019 12: 13
          +2
          Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
          For example, I studied the subject "Propaganda and counter-propaganda" at the military-political school (77-81)

          By the way, I had to deal with officers from the special propaganda department of the GSVG political department, after the department itself was liquidated and educators were created. I only note that it was the elite of political workers - there were the best not only in knowledge, but also in level of thinking, and they had their own technique. And by their knowledge of the language, they were generally better than regular translators - these were the nuances in the Soviet Army.
          1. kalibr
            9 December 2019 14: 57
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            I only note that it was the elite of political workers - there were the best not only in knowledge, but also in level of thinking, and they had their own technique. And by their knowledge of the language, they were generally better than regular translators - these were the nuances in the Soviet Army.

            Among the lecturers of the OK and RK the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, too, did not keep "trash". There, for just one word, you could fly out with a bang. I devoted 9 years to this work.
      3. Kirill Dou
        Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 10: 56
        -2
        When I studied at the university as a specialist in public relations, I used your work as well! I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that you are publishing on VO.
        1. kalibr
          9 December 2019 15: 00
          0
          This is how people meet. I am now retired. The last textbooks were three - 2017-18 "Internet journalism and online advertising", "PR-design and PR-promotion" and "Public opinion management technologies". Well, before that there were books, including in Germany. Glad if something is useful to you.
  31. kalibr
    8 December 2019 17: 29
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    What cattle manipulation with completely different concepts.

    You can drag in the Maidan, but I can’t camera? Double standarts! By the way, you, as I look, you want to prove something to me? Do not. It is useless. It’s better to go to the library or the local archive yourself and read newspapers of the time at your leisure. At least it will give you pleasure, raising a sense of self-worth, and also it is interesting.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 17: 36
      +1
      And even more so Maidan are not gas chambers.
      1. kalibr
        8 December 2019 19: 57
        0
        Not the subject matter. The principle is important. Is this available to your understanding?
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 03: 40
          0
          Maidan is an analogue, with a direct rally. The rally, like the Maidan, can be spontaneous, and can be organized from above. So in my case no double standards. In your direct stuffing in order to divert attention from the essence. Are the Maidan and the gas chamber, machine-gun fire, even the ancients, and a rally comparable? Obviously not.
      2. LeonidL
        LeonidL 9 December 2019 05: 16
        +4
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        And even more so Maidan are not gas chambers.

        Maidan is the first step towards something like this. The Ukrainian Maidan led to the Odessa Khatyn, to the bombing and shelling of Donbass, when both children and civilians died, and they are dying now. Maidans in Arab countries are still hiccuping blood, while the Maidan in Hong Kong is limited to a decline in prestige and economy, but this is only for now. Swamp Madanchik did not lead to serious consequences only because of the participation of "office plankton" (quote from Nemtsov). In my opinion, any Maidan or Maidanchik that goes beyond what is permitted and permitted should be immediately and thoroughly cleaned up by the security forces and punished the instigators and the most violent participants.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 05: 18
          -1
          Ukromaydan - of course. But the word itself is a direct analogue of the word rally. All the difference in organizing a rally-maidan.
          1. LeonidL
            LeonidL 9 December 2019 05: 22
            +3
            "On the Maidan, there is a revolution of ide ..." - a quote from the Ukrainian poet Pavel Tychina. in Ukraine, the Maidan is, as a rule, always the eye of the hurricane of all revolutions, both spontaneous and well-paid.
  32. kalibr
    8 December 2019 17: 37
    -1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    You even lie in such trifles, specially checked.

    What have you checked? I press the "quote" key, there is a quote, then my answer, then "send" and my answer is at the bottom. Why so, I do not know. Is there an answer? There is. So be glad that you are answered. You've been here since October 29th. It should be noted that not all authors do this. Appreciate ...
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 18: 05
      +4
      Wow, thanks for the honor, but some authors, and it's not you, do it. And they respond to my comments, and even thanked, one time all, but I appreciated.
      1. kalibr
        8 December 2019 19: 54
        -2
        Glad Vladimir that one of the authors thanked you. But when you have 40 books in the USSR, the Russian Federation, England and Germany, 1200 articles only in VO and 300 on Pravda.ru apart from print magazines ... You will understand that both abuse and praise do not particularly hurt me. The first is perceived, well, as bad weather, the second, as sunny. But since nature does not have bad weather, all weather is good. The editor’s opinion worries - it’s clear why. Publishers Eksmo, AST, Yauza, Osprey ... and all.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 03: 33
          +2
          If these are books of the same kind as the current article, then they are worthless. Although in the "State Department" they will certainly applaud. (The State Department is such a collective image of the enemy of Russia)
          1. kalibr
            9 December 2019 15: 06
            0
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Although in the "State Department" they will certainly applaud.

            And you turn out to be even more stupid than you seem. Writing "If ..." in the age of the Internet, when everything is there, is the same as publicly signing your dementia.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 9 December 2019 15: 10
              +3
              I ran through your articles, even the "State Department" has nothing to applaud, sorry, I was mistaken. I'll run publicly to sign my dementia, just grab a pen and put on my galoshes.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 9 December 2019 12: 27
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          But when you have 40 books in the USSR, the Russian Federation, England and Germany, 1200 articles only in VO and 300 in Pravda.ru apart from print magazines ..

          You are a prolific author, and it deserves respect.
          True, there is Ethel Lilian Voynich, who, with just one book, entered forever in world history, and this causes even more respect.
          And another example - who now remembers Academician Aganbegyan and his work of the Soviet period?
          So the quantity is not an indicator, but nevertheless I take off my hat for your participation in VO.
          1. kalibr
            9 December 2019 15: 04
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            So the quantity is not an indicator, but nevertheless I take off my hat for your participation in VO.

            So now it’s the age of the Internet and everything is there. You can open and see, right? You can go to the E-lab and see there. Everything is...
          2. kalibr
            9 December 2019 15: 12
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            True, there is Ethel Lilian Voynich, who, with just one book, entered forever in world history, and this causes even more respect.

            Right. But she did not succeed in two continuation books! I also have only one novel so far. The second I can’t publish in any way, and the third in 3 volumes of 6 books was published in Germany, although in Russian. Alas, recommending it to our readers would be a great shame on my part. Very expensive! Now, if you are a wealthy person, you can buy books for 50-60 euros ...
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 9 December 2019 19: 37
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              The second I can’t publish in any way, and the third in 3 volumes of 6 books was published in Germany, although in Russian.

              I sympathize with you, but they are unlikely to be interested in your novels in Germany - I lived there for almost five years and have an idea of ​​their tastes.
              Quote: kalibr
              Alas, recommending it to our readers would be a great shame on my part. Very expensive!

              Strange, I know a person who writes books, some publishers print them and he even gets royalties, albeit small ones. Maybe you invested in an unsuccessful and unprofitable business project?
              Quote: kalibr
              Now, if you are a wealthy person, you can buy books for 50-60 euros ...

              Do you really think that if your books were worth it, then there would be no publishers for them in Russia? And many write "in the box" in order to amuse their pride - but this is not a reproach to you.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 December 2019 18: 08
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      What have you checked? I press the "quote" key, there is a quote, then my answer, then "send" and my answer is at the bottom

      Try to press the "Reply" button first, although it is very strange that you get an answer to the comments that are slightly higher than these.
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 8 December 2019 18: 29
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      I press the "quote" key, there is a quote, then my answer, then "send" and my answer is at the bottom. Why so, I do not know.

      Because first you need to press the "answer", and then quote as much as you like. And send.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 December 2019 10: 33
      -1
      Quote: kalibr
      What have you checked? I press the "quote" key, there is a quote, then my answer, then "send" and my answer is at the bottom. Why so, I do not know.


      It's simple:
      1 in any case, first of all, press the button "reply".
      2. Then select the quote to which you want to reply and click "quote"
      3. If you immediately click on "quote", then the answer, yes, automatically slides down, at the very end.
      1. kalibr
        9 December 2019 15: 09
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        If you immediately click on "quote", then the answer, yes, automatically drops down, to the very end.

        Thanks again. Somehow I never paid attention to it.
  33. kalibr
    8 December 2019 17: 45
    -2
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    People could be cheated against the embassy, ​​but they did not.

    And they did it right!
  34. kalibr
    8 December 2019 19: 49
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Because first you need to press the "answer", and then quote as much as you like. And send.

    Live and learn! Thank!
  35. kalibr
    8 December 2019 20: 06
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    It turns out that your work was created for the sake of the work itself.

    It was created for the interest of VO readers, so that it would be interesting to read, learn something new, add commentary, show your awareness, develop your brains a little ... that’s all. And you thought why?
  36. Corn
    Corn 8 December 2019 20: 10
    -5
    The idea of ​​this article is simply wonderful, and the presentation is up to par.
    I’ll just add on my own that it might be nice to add similar clippings from the newspapers of opponents and some kind of comments on how people perceived all this.
    Of course, all this applies not only to the Winter War, to many other conflicts (where possible).
    1. kalibr
      8 December 2019 21: 57
      -1
      Quote: Corn
      it would be nice to add similar clippings from the newspapers of opponents and some kind of comments on how people perceived all this.

      Totally agree with you. And I want to try to do this: newspaper + materials OK VKP (b). But I can hardly get extracts from foreign newspapers. This is very troublesome.
  37. RUSS
    RUSS 8 December 2019 20: 36
    -6
    Vyacheslav thanks for the article, finally something interesting and truthful about the Winter War, and not nonsense and fantasy from Samsonov
  38. bubalik
    bubalik 8 December 2019 21: 02
    +3





    Source: Winter War 1939–1940 in declassified documents of the Central Archive of the FSB of Russia and the archives of Finland. Research, documents, comments. To the 70th anniversary of the Soviet-Finnish war. - M.: IKC "Akademkniga", 2009
    ,,, not everything was so smooth.
    1. kalibr
      8 December 2019 22: 03
      -1
      Yes, the statements on page 416 are very revealing. However, on the table I now have documents from OK VKP (B) - reports of the head of the NKVD to the Secretary of the City Committee about who, where, and what they are talking about ... Oh, oh, the picture is very interesting. How to print - read. Come on in!
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 8 December 2019 22: 43
        +3
        ,,, millions believed, but there were millions who pretended to believe, and even spoke at meetings as required.
        1. kalibr
          9 December 2019 13: 17
          -1
          Quote: bubalik
          and even spoke at meetings as required.

          Exactly ... you want to live and you will sit on a hedgehog with your bare ass! But the statistics are all for.
  39. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 8 December 2019 21: 37
    +8
    And this is the T-26 tank in winter camouflage. The most interesting, however, is that this picture was taken about 10 days before the conflict began. But there is already snow on the border. The question is, what about the song on Suomi Beauty? There it’s about autumn, and when it snows, it’s already winter. So it turns out that the war should have started even earlier, that they even managed to order and write a “patriotic song” for it, but politicians didn’t grow together and the time had to be moved. And moved ... but the changes to the song just forgot to make. “And so it will do!” And it did! To the time!


    The author once again contributed to the denigrating of Soviet history, placed a sarcastic comment under each picture, he really wanted to present the USSR as an aggressor, for which he was replicating the myth of the song about Suomi-Beauty.

    Only he is wrong, the words of the song were written not in August, but at the end of 1939, and the disc was released only in 1940. This song began to be sung en masse after the 1940 film "Mannerheim's Line" was released. The date of the record (allegedly August 1939) was falsified by the Americans and disseminated this information on the Internet.

    In August 1939 they did not even think about the war with Finland in the USSR, they hoped that the Finns would agree to an exchange. They were given 2,5 times the large territory. The goal was clear: it was necessary to secure Leningrad and Kronstadt from shelling from Finnish territory. Mannerheim agreed to these conditions, but the Finnish Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the war were on his conscience.

    There is a Finnish film about the Winter War, which begins with a general mobilization on October 13, 1939 (in fact, it began on October 10). For 1,5 months, the 600-thousandth horde of parasites played the fool. Finland was afraid to demobilize, but it was expensive to keep so many parasites in the army. Therefore, they needed a war and, hoping for the support of England and France, they staged an attack on Mainila.
    1. kalibr
      8 December 2019 22: 42
      -4
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Only he is mistaken, the lyrics were not written in August, but at the end of 1939,

      What stupid poets we had. There is snow on the street, and they compose a song about autumn.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 8 December 2019 23: 56
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        What stupid poets we had. There is snow on the street, and they compose a song about autumn.

        Firstly, you cannot order rhyme, and secondly, how could the poets know how the battles would go, for example, "Tanks are breaking wide glades," and in the film "Mannerheim's Line" a tank attack is accompanied by the words of this song.
        1. kalibr
          9 December 2019 07: 52
          -1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          don't rhyme

          Only a patient can write this on his head!
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 9 December 2019 21: 41
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            Only a patient can write this on his head!

            And to repeat anti-Soviet myths?
    2. Timofey Astakhov
      Timofey Astakhov 9 June 2021 22: 27
      0
      Quote: Alexander Green
      he really wanted to present the USSR as an aggressor

      so he was the aggressor.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  40. kalibr
    8 December 2019 22: 11
    -5
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Finland was afraid to carry out demobilization, but it was unprofitable to maintain so many parasites in the army.

    So it was necessary not to be fooled. But just wait ... And so we showed the whole world that the USSR, with all its might, was, firstly, not so strong, and secondly, his exclusion from the League of Nations greatly undermined our prestige in the international arena. One cannot agitate for an international brotherhood of workers and peasants, and at the same time ignore the participation in the work of international organizations. This gives hostile propaganda an excellent chance of success. And there is nothing to parry. We are out of the game. The stands deprived us! Even in the Tsar’s Duma, Lenin called for work to use her tribune, and admitted that the boycott of the First Duma was a mistake.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 9 December 2019 00: 22
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      So it was necessary not to be fooled. But just wait ... And so we showed the whole world that the USSR, with all its might, was, firstly, not so strong, and secondly, his exclusion from the League of Nations greatly undermined our prestige in the international arena.


      Why wait? 1941 year? Then the Finns would immediately take Leningrad
      Who needs it, the military power of the USSR was understood even then. Even Hitler wrote. Mussolini: "Taking into account the possibilities of maneuver and supply, no force in the world could, or if it could, only after prolonged preparations, achieve such results in frosts of 30-40 degrees and in the area that the Russians reached. ”

      All other statements of Hitler about the actions of the Red Army in the Finnish war in an insulting form were made for publicity, in order to inspire listeners to fight Bolshevism. This letter was not subject to publicity, and the leaders of fascism had no reason to lie to each other ..

      Prime Minister of France. Daladier, speaking in Parliament on March 19, 1940, stated that for France “The Moscow peace treaty is a tragic and shameful event. This is a great victory for Russia. ”

      Leading newspapers in America noted that "The victory of the USSR was a blow to the prestige of Western countries." The New York Times military columnist D. Aldrich drew readers in the US to “The Red Army’s breakthrough of the Mannerheim Line ... is the most outstanding military feat since the last war.”

      But the scout traitor Rezun (Suvorov) wrote in one of his books that in the USA the military operations of the Soviet forces on the Karelian Isthmus were modeled on a computer and military experts came to the conclusion that it was impossible to take the Mannerheim line.

      What is considered to be exclusion from the League of Nations is a dead thing. Firstly, she was incapable, and secondly, she quickly "ordered to live". Thirdly, the USSR had a Cominern at that time ..
      1. LeonidL
        LeonidL 9 December 2019 05: 03
        +1
        Everything is correct - but a little inaccurate, this is Rezun, who allegedly taught in England "the science of running across", they say, he modeled and came to a brilliant conclusion! By the way, he sketched a lot about the charm of fortresses and lines ... Well, to read Rezun is not to respect yourself.
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 18: 27
          +2
          Quote: LeonidL
          Everything is correct - but a little inaccurate, this is Rezun, who allegedly taught in England "the science of running across", they say, he modeled and came to a brilliant conclusion! By the way, he sketched a lot about the charm of fortresses and lines ... Well, to read Rezun is not to respect yourself.

          And to read Shpakovsky - respect yourself? This is the same Rezun, only even more harmful and in spectacular pictures, I like it myself. But Rezun is a scoundrel, but he is a visionary dreamer. PTR - a sniper for the BN, and now in all armies, the same thing.
          came to the conclusion that it is impossible to take the Mannerheim line.
          Yes, why not? it all depends on the conditions of the task, not only the line, but also the assault. On not frozen bog in the winter, in the frost - zya, but here it is possible. So the bony arm of the Naglov reads well.
          1. LeonidL
            LeonidL 10 December 2019 02: 28
            0
            Shpakovsky - as you can guess, we both read. That is, we both either do not respect ourselves, or nothing else, we survive. Only Shpakovsky himself is not enough here, therefore, is it possible to speak of him as a value comparable in malignancy to a rezun? There seems to be a lot of information provided. But what does it prove? The propaganda was carried out as it took time. And the time was cruel and there was no smell of "democracy, vulgarity" and other dirty tricks. Let's read the sequel before drawing a conclusion.
            1. Mavrikiy
              Mavrikiy 10 December 2019 07: 49
              -1
              LeonidL (Leonid) Yesterday, 18:27 Today, 02:28 Well, to read Rezun - do not respect yourself.
              Alaverdy!
              how are youдYou read, both of us.
              . Dear Arkady, don't speak nicely. Is Shpakovsky not enough? Read "Poisoned Feather" on VO, the mud will be like in a swamp, but far from Rezun's talent and quality, and therefore more sticky.
              1. LeonidL
                LeonidL 11 December 2019 02: 35
                -1
                Mauritius! Come to your senses! Why such ecstasy! Both of us, apparently, read the first part of the commented article. I personally didn’t read anything else, but I wrote in a comment if you carefully read that I do not like rotting odor. Which is better - a talented and shy liar Rezun or dirty-bolted Shpakovsky? here I’m not competent - you know better, I personally do not damp the composition and quality of the dirt for comparison only.
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 9 December 2019 21: 42
          0
          Quote: LeonidL
          read Rezun - do not respect yourself.

          And our author? He wrote libel not less than Rezun. In Rezun, at least sometimes the truth erupts.
          1. LeonidL
            LeonidL 10 December 2019 02: 41
            -1
            Alexander! This is the first creation of the author that caught my eye. Rezun has very cleverly built spoons of honey in ointments. For example: Was there a naval base in Pina? Was! It's true? True! Only now Rezun "forgets" that at first it was a naval base of the Pinsk Polish military river flotilla. Was there a channel? Was! True? True! Only it was not built by convicts, of whom, according to Memorial, there were none in the vicinity, but built for the king of punk at 18 ?? d serfs. And well built! it functions today practically in its original form! The Poles used it in full, calling it "Krulewski"! Monitors were on Pina? There were! True, everything is also distorted here - most of the monitors were captured Polish, some were Soviet-built. But both those and others, like the rest of the ships, had a draft of the order of no more than 1 meter 50 cm! Otherwise, they would not have passed through a canal and a pin - there the cows wade in many places! Where do the "super-monitors" come from? Such monitors Rezun subtracted in the English editions - in the English navy, just such were available in WWII. The largest monitors were built for the Amur Flotilla in Kiev, but were not completed and were flooded. Did the Pinsk flotilla have naval aviation? Was! One P-10 squadron. Read yourself whether these airplanes could threaten Berlin? Was there a Marine Corps? Was! true truth! Only here Rezun "forgot" to mention - one company that moved on carts! And, the cherry on the cake - could the flotilla threaten to go as far as the Oder? She could not go out to the Bug either - the channel in Mukhovets ended with a retaining wall! The Germans bombed it in the first hours of the war, the water leaked out and the ships could not even reach Kobrin! T e everywhere is not a solid lie, but what you gracefully called "though sometimes the truth breaks through."
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 10 December 2019 18: 05
              -2
              Quote: LeonidL
              This is the first creation of the author that caught my eye. Rezun has very cleverly integrated spoons of honey in tar tar.

              I know perfectly well who Rezun is, but I gave known information about the simulation of battles on the Karelian Isthmus. Nobody has disputed it yet, and I think that the Red Army did the impossible there. If you want to defend the author's libel, defend it, but they are not worth it, because the author with Rezun is "Two boots - KEDA ..."
              1. LeonidL
                LeonidL 11 December 2019 02: 31
                0
                You very skillfully walk away from what I wrote to you. Nobody disputes nonsense just because nonsense is clear to all professionals. You are fixated on one obzat, and not on the rationale of the "impossibility of a breakthrough." Breakthroughs of long-term fortification lines took place in WWII on all fronts and by all armies. Take an interest. The way and how Rezun "programmed" in an English college and whether he programmed at all is hidden by darkness, but it seems to me that this type of teaching would not be allowed at all, so wipe the dust from the exhibits. The British military should not be considered so stupid that they do not understand the full value of Rezun's delights and his "high" qualifications. And yet, I do not defend anyone's libel, I wrote that I am not familiar with the works of this gentleman and therefore I do not undertake to judge them, and what I read is only a part of what was promised. That will give out everything - then the subject of the dispute will be clear. So far, only photocopies of newspapers, by the way something interesting to read.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 18: 08
                  -2
                  Quote: LeonidL
                  You very skillfully walk away from what I wrote to you. Nobody disputes nonsense just because nonsense is clear to all professionals. You are fixated on one obzat, and not on the rationale of the "impossibility of a breakthrough."


                  Before blaming others: whether they go to the side or not, whether they are fixated or not - you will first understand yourself.

                  I don't give a damn about Rezun, I know the price for him. I just cited the fact voiced by him, along with other arguments, to emphasize: what a feat the Red Army made by taking the Mannerheim line.

                  But you didn’t even notice other arguments; you yourself clung to the “Rezun fact” and blame me for this.
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 11 December 2019 11: 37
                +2
                Quote: Alexander Green
                but I brought some well-known information about the simulation of battles on the Karelian Isthmus. No one has challenged her yet,

                How can the situation of battles on the Karelian Isthmus be modeled if the materials of operational control and encryption of the 8th General Staff control of that period are still not known? And what can you know about the tasks that were set, for example, by our aviation or the Navy’s People’s Commissariat in that war in terms of supporting the advancing units or striking at important objects, what were the reserves and material supplies, and what we could transfer from other districts during the day to enhance.
                In general, behind this "scientific" is the usual show off of the advanced "historian" Rezun, who, due to his illiteracy, does not even know what operational planning at the district level is, and it is a pity that people who are ignorant of military affairs believe in such stupidity.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 18: 14
                  -2
                  Quote: ccsr
                  How can the situation of battles on the Karelian Isthmus be modeled if the materials of operational control and encryption of the 8th General Staff control of that period are still not known?

                  And how can one disgrace the Red Army for a Finnish company if all the materials are unknown?
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 11 December 2019 19: 43
                    +2
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    And how can one disgrace the Red Army for a Finnish company if all the materials are unknown?

                    I don’t know who dishonors her - for example, I just sympathize with what happened to our army then, and try to understand why this happened and what were our mistakes.
                    And I am categorically against the assessment of that war being made on the basis of Rezun’s false statements.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 22: 51
                      -1
                      Quote: ccsr
                      and trying to understand why this happened and what were our mistakes.

                      Read dokald I.V. Stalin at a meeting of the commanding officers of the Paint Army on April 17, 1940, and then everything will be clear.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 12 December 2019 13: 23
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Read dokald I.V. Stalin at a meeting of the commanding officers of the Paint Army on April 17, 1940, and then everything will be clear.

                        I read it, and even crawled a book sheet here from the materials of this analysis.
                        Agree that this report is much more informative militarily than all the clippings from the Pravda newspaper of that period. That is why I advised the author of the article to do this.
      2. Nikolai Miracles
        Nikolai Miracles 9 December 2019 05: 11
        +1
        Karelian SD from the Gulf of Finland to Lake Ladoga has not been canceled. The Finns still could not break through it. Sleeping on the post is not necessary.
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 9 December 2019 12: 38
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Green
        But the scout traitor Rezun (Suvorov) wrote in one of his books that in the USA the military operations of the Soviet forces on the Karelian Isthmus were modeled on a computer and military experts came to the conclusion that it was impossible to take the Mannerheim line.

        Do not disgrace yourself with this "writer", because he lies like a gray gelding in his books, and only illiterate people can refer to him in assessing the operational capabilities of the Red Army in 1939 - he served in the GRU, not in the GOU, so do not make yourself a laughing stock among military professionals.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 9 December 2019 21: 49
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          Do not disgrace yourself with this "writer"

          Did you just notice this? And with the rest of the post, you agree "
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 10 December 2019 14: 06
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Did you notice just that?

            References to Rezun as a source of reliable information are a sign of bad taste or illiteracy, because he is a primary liar, and this was proved by a professional analysis of his books.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 10 December 2019 18: 12
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              References to Rezun as a source of reliable information are a sign of bad taste or illiteracy, because he is a primary liar, and this was proved by a professional analysis of his books.

              I see you go in cycles ... In order not to repeat: read my comment five steps above.
      4. kalibr
        9 December 2019 13: 15
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Firstly, she was incapacitated

        Who is this talking? It was a TRIBUNE with which we voluntarily left just when she was very needed!
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 9 December 2019 23: 03
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          It was a TRIBUNE with which we voluntarily left just when she was very needed!

          And you come up with a dubious tribune and a strategic victory for the USSR (strengthening the northwestern borders of the country: the security of Leningrad, Murmansk and the Murmansk railway).
          1. Nikolai Miracles
            Nikolai Miracles 10 December 2019 05: 01
            -1
            The security of Leningrad was not "strengthened". The blockade is an example of this.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 10 December 2019 18: 07
              -1
              Quote: Nikolai Chudov
              The security of Leningrad was not "strengthened". The blockade is an example of this.

              Why not strengthened? If the border had not been pushed back in 1940, then in 1941 Leningral would have taken it right away.
              1. Nikolai Miracles
                Nikolai Miracles 10 December 2019 20: 14
                -1
                How much can this nonsense be repeated? Leningrad from the north defended the Karelian UR. Pass it right away, you will lay bones if they are not sleeping at the posts there.
                [media = http: //www.pomnivoinu.ru/home/reports/104/]
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 10 December 2019 23: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                  How much can this nonsense be repeated?

                  This “nonsense”, as you have expressed it, is written by all unbiased historians, that for the Soviet Union at that time it was important to remove the Soviet-Finnish border from Leningrad, which was only 32 kilometers away.

                  As a result of the war, the border was pushed back 150 km. from Leningrad, which saved him from occupation. In the case of maintaining the border at Sestroretsk, the Finnish-German forces could already freely shoot from long-range artillery even before entering Soviet territory. In such circumstances, in the first weeks of the war, they had good chances to capture Leningrad on the move, with one tank throw.
                  1. Nikolai Miracles
                    Nikolai Miracles 11 December 2019 05: 27
                    +1
                    It is not worth repeating the propagandists' delirium that appears to be "German-Finnish troops" north of Leningrad. The Finns tried to storm the Karelian UR and only the Finns, who did not have long-range artillery for shelling Leningrad, and serious tanks too.

                    [media = https: //warspot.ru/11875-osadnaya-artilleriya-pod-leningradom]
                  2. Nikolai Miracles
                    Nikolai Miracles 11 December 2019 06: 19
                    0
                    Finnish artillery simply could not finish it to Leningrad.
                    [media = https: //topwar.ru/102628-finskaya-artilleriya-prosto-ne-mogla-dobit-do-leningrada.html]
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 18: 16
                      -1
                      Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                      Do not repeat the ravings of propagandons,

                      Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                      Finnish artillery simply could not finish it to Leningrad.


                      Sorry, but you, whose nonsense is so stubbornly replicating? And not in vain, in one comment you cited the TTD of guns at the disposal of the German troops, and in the other you are replicating the opinion of “Vasya Perepechkin”.

                      The Finns had enough long-range guns, both stationary and mobile on railway platforms, which perfectly shot through the northern regions of Leningrad. The fact that they did not fire at the same intensity as the Germans was another matter.

                      I hope you do not write Shirokorad to propagandists, read at your leisure.
                      https://history.wikireading.ru/108277
                      1. Nikolai Miracles
                        Nikolai Miracles 11 December 2019 19: 38
                        0
                        The Finns had enough long-range guns, both stationary and mobile on railway platforms, which perfectly shot through the northern regions of Leningrad. The fact that they did not fire at the same intensity as the Germans was another matter.

                        It turns out that the border movement as a result of the Soviet-Finnish war did not save Leningrad from shelling from the Finnish side during the Second World War. Q.E.D. Thank you for your cooperation.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 22: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        It turns out that the border movement as a result of the Soviet-Finnish war did not save Leningrad from shelling from the Finnish side during the Second World War. Q.E.D

                        With your "analytical" mind you have to work in the weather forecast bureau.
              2. Timofey Astakhov
                Timofey Astakhov 9 June 2021 22: 38
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Leningrad would have been taken outright.


                Yes Yes Yes. And precisely in order to "take Leningrad outright", the Finns built DEFENSE lines (not only Mannerheim, but also the Salpa line).
                You yourself are not funny from your conclusions?
      5. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 18: 35
        +3
        Yes, Hitler appreciated our abilities, but allowed Canaris to reforge himself in a year. On the other hand, he had nowhere to go. England resisted the United States and beyond the puddle at the catch.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 18: 38
      +2
      kalibr (Vyacheslav)
      So it was necessary not to be fooled. And just wait ... And so we have shown to the whole world that the USSR, with all its might, is, firstly, not so strong,
      Rezun to the masses! Well, well ....... 30 is worth it.
  41. LeonidL
    LeonidL 9 December 2019 05: 00
    +5
    Everyone reads the text the same way, and letters seem to parse the same way, but everyone understands everything differently. My opinion is from the article (so far in any case) a very harsh and nasty little bears. Yes, the press wrote what it was supposed to write. The government tried to avoid war. The opposite side did not understand the good attitude and then the weapon spoke. All history has put in their places. But, think about it, if the Finnish government agreed to one, even the most advantageous proposal of the USSR, then the Finns themselves would have avoided all the horrors of war, and as a result? As a result, everything was established today, approximately as suggested by the USSR government at that time. Everything else is an empty talking room in the spirit of liberal word production.
    1. Kirill Dou
      Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 11: 19
      -1
      The government tried to avoid war.
      - oh how. One may ask, how do you then assess the actions of the governments of Britain and France, when they, in fact, allowed Hitler to seize Czechoslovakia? Do you call this the "Munich Agreement" or do you think Britain and France did everything they could to avoid war? After all, this is exactly what Premier Chamberlain said - "I brought you peace!" after Munich.
      1. LeonidL
        LeonidL 10 December 2019 02: 44
        0
        You are trying to put the cart before the horse! What happened before - the Munich agreement or attempts to agree with Finland, when the Second World War was already underway? A purely liberal approach!
        1. Kirill Dou
          Kirill Dou 14 December 2019 12: 02
          -1
          Well, I was waiting for you to start coming up with "crutches" for your position, so they came)
  42. Slavutich
    Slavutich 9 December 2019 06: 59
    -2
    Here is the Pravda newspaper - everything is different and from the other side. Interesting article.
  43. Maks1995
    Maks1995 9 December 2019 09: 22
    -1
    Great selection. Thank.

    True, now more often you come across articles - like Finns attacked us ...
  44. Kirill Dou
    Kirill Dou 9 December 2019 12: 16
    -5
    Thanks for the interesting article! Very illustrative examples. Here recently one just proved to me that "Sovetskaya Pravda" (in the sense - the truth, not the name of the newspaper) was the most objective.
    1. kalibr
      9 December 2019 15: 23
      -1
      You, Cyril, of course, drew attention to BELOFINNOV in an article from a Swedish newspaper? I, on the site of Beria, would immediately have rolled the author to a logging site! So what kind of objectivity are we talking about?
  45. nesvobodnye
    nesvobodnye 9 December 2019 14: 45
    +3
    The author, posing as a professor of history, turns out not to have worked with 1 serious archive. He is definitely a professor, but did not buy a diploma in the transition? Maybe he is not even a fake professor, but some kind of Mykola from the Dnieper, moonlighting in his spare time from study?
    1. kalibr
      9 December 2019 15: 17
      -2
      Quote: nesvobodnye
      The author, posing as a professor of history, turns out not to have worked with 1 serious archive. He is definitely a professor, but did not buy a diploma in the transition? Maybe he is not even a fake professor, but some kind of Mykola from the Dnieper, moonlighting in his spare time from study?

      Oh, Igor, well, in the age of the Internet, you can not write this? You climb into the "profile", there is a full name. You type your full name on the Internet, Wikipedia comes out there, where the whole biography opens. It says where and in what transition in Soviet times, what was bought, and much more. Why do all the illiterate people come here ... And why do you need a "serious archive"? Photocopies from the newspaper are enough for your eyes. She, however, is also from the archive. But only regional.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 9 December 2019 19: 47
        +5
        Quote: kalibr
        You type your name on the Internet, Wikipedia gets out there, where the entire biography opens.

        The option that you write on behalf of another person, we must exclude?
        For example A. Martirosyan, a fairly well-known person on the Internet, never writes comments on the Internet, so if you suddenly come across his "author's" texts, then do not believe - he did not write this.
        That is why do not be surprised that some authors have doubted your "professorship" ....
        1. kalibr
          9 December 2019 22: 27
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          That is why do not be surprised that some authors have doubted your "professorship" ....

          First of all, I have never been a professor. Where did he get this from? There is a full name on the profile. Site rules prohibit having virtual doubles. It is easily verified and severely punished. Well, and ... (the word is forbidden on the site) were, is and will always be. What will you take from them. By the way, the Labyrinth website has a bunch of my books and reviews on them. Both good and bad. Who likes what...
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 10 December 2019 13: 59
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            Site rules prohibit having virtual doubles. It is easily verified and severely punished.

            Come on, tell tales - I can call myself Ivan the Terrible and write on his behalf, and at the same time I will not violate the rules of the site.
            Quote: kalibr
            By the way, the Labyrinth website has a bunch of my books and reviews on them.

            So I was alarmed that you suddenly launched a vigorous activity on the military site to push through your research in the field of PR and propaganda, especially since there are specialized sites for this, as you noticed.
            Do you think this is appropriate for military review?
            1. kalibr
              10 December 2019 21: 31
              -1
              Quote: ccsr
              I can call myself Ivan the Terrible and write on his behalf, and without violating the rules of the site.

              Tell me, who's stopping you? But it makes no sense to me to do so.
        2. kalibr
          9 December 2019 22: 34
          -1
          Quote: ccsr
          The option that you write on behalf of another person, we must exclude?

          And the other person does not know this. In the age of the Internet, yes ... he is an ass, but this is another person. And the one on whose behalf, whose face ... oh, where only such come from.
        3. nesvobodnye
          nesvobodnye 10 December 2019 11: 05
          +2
          Doubts arise not formal - not to the profile, but to the essence of the message. Some kind of children's comments on the photos. An attempt to judge that time from the perspective of the present, one-sided coverage, characteristic of a propagandist, but not a scientist.
          Now, if archival photos of Finnish concentration camps with children from the USSR were given in parallel (http://nurman.ru/news/jarl-burenstam/rassekrecheny-dokumenty-o-finskih-konclageryah-v-karelii-r12757/), photos of Finnish soldiers digesting the skulls of the murdered Red Army men to make souvenirs from them, one could at least stutter about some kind of neutrality. In the meantime, I see only the blackening of the history of my country. And there is a feeling that the author is not from here, so it’s so dirty my story - not my own, not sorry.
          And the name, I can put any in my signature in violation of the rules, this is not an argument at all.
          1. Kirill Dou
            Kirill Dou 10 December 2019 13: 00
            -3
            From the caption to the photo of the Finnish concentration camp from your article:

            RIA Novosti for the first time publishes documents on Finnish concentration camps, that existed in Petrozavodsk during the Great Patriotic War. The first of six camps was created
            24 1941 October, the
            .
            - I recall that the Winter War unleashed by the USSR was in 1939-40. And it is precisely about her that Vyacheslav Shpakovsky writes in his article.

            photos of Finnish soldiers digesting the skulls of slain Red Army men to make souvenirs from them,
            - Tough, of course, only those who attacked their country, the Finns were obliged to give flowers?

            In the meantime, I see only the blackening of the history of my country.
            - what you want is what you see. Normal people see that our country is not ideal and has never been ideal. To admit the mistakes of your country, your people, to prevent their repetition in the future is real patriotism, and not to close your eyes and shout "my country is being denigrated!"
            1. nesvobodnye
              nesvobodnye 11 December 2019 10: 19
              0
              Admitting mistakes is right. But the article does not admit errors, but denigrations are made. While the opposite side is exposed white and fluffy. There is no impartiality that a scientist should have, there is some kind of teenage resentment at the discrepancy between reality and personal expectations, this raises a suspicion of interest in this denigration.
              And the history of the country - whatever it was, should be respected if you are not a mankurt. Although ... the intelligentsia of the Russian and especially the Soviet period of the late USSR had a birth disease - to slander the country.
              1. kalibr
                11 December 2019 12: 38
                0
                Quote: nesvobodnye
                There is no impartiality that a scientist should have,

                Who told you that? Scientists are always biased anyway. They are the same people who like something, something not. I already wrote: write your impartial material. Let's see how you do it.
                1. nesvobodnye
                  nesvobodnye 14 December 2019 20: 46
                  0
                  Have written already, read VO.
                  1. kalibr
                    14 December 2019 21: 23
                    0
                    You have 0 materials, what to read?
                    1. nesvobodnye
                      nesvobodnye 15 December 2019 00: 12
                      0
                      Russian is not your native language? Do you understand poorly or are tired and hence the ambiguities?
                      I’m developing: look for an article on the Finnish war on VO, it’s after yours. There is only factology and there is no emotional saliva, as here.
                      1. kalibr
                        15 December 2019 15: 22
                        0
                        And this is your article, you wrote it, right? You have 0 on your profile. And I suggested you try to write it yourself ...
  46. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 16: 58
    +4
    ,
    and in Finland’s aggressive politics, of course, London is to blame!
    Is not it so? WWII unleashed precisely London, and the USA threw firewood.
    1. kalibr
      9 December 2019 17: 47
      -4
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      WWII unleashed precisely London

      That is, he organized the German attack on himself?
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 9 December 2019 18: 08
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        WWII unleashed precisely London

        That is, he organized the German attack on himself?

        Yes, he created the German military-industrial complex, gave Austria with a gold reserve, then Austrian gold was given to Germany. He gave the go-ahead to Germany to tear Czechoslovakia. Germany increased its military-industrial complex by 50%, Skoda’s excellent weapons factories, tank and aviation, and small-sized ammunition, shells ..... And it pushed Germany further east, but Hitler did well, he hit England and France through the snot (nothing personal, provocateurs- arsonists).
        1. kalibr
          9 December 2019 22: 37
          -2
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          And pushed Germany further east

          Where she signed the agreement and secret protocol on August 23 ... untied his hands ...
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 10 December 2019 07: 30
            -1
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            And pushed Germany further east

            Where she signed the agreement and secret protocol on August 23 ... untied his hands ...

            Yes, Hitler did not want to fight with us at that moment and circled the "foggy Albion" around his finger. And it turned out Churchill - a simpleton.
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            WWII unleashed precisely London
            = kalibr
            That is, he organized the German attack on himself?
            And the meaning of WWII was in the war of London and Berlin? Rave. fool
            1. Kirill Dou
              Kirill Dou 10 December 2019 12: 52
              -3
              And the meaning of WWII was in the war of London and Berlin? Rave. fool
              - It’s good that you acknowledge your delirium.
            2. Nikolai Miracles
              Nikolai Miracles 10 December 2019 17: 03
              +1
              Not Churchill, but Chamberlain.
      2. LeonidL
        LeonidL 10 December 2019 02: 47
        0
        More or less like this! I wanted the best, but it turned out as always! I also wanted to go to the First World War "as it is best" - a letter from Lord Gray, for example.
  47. Stormsdruttin
    Stormsdruttin 9 December 2019 17: 15
    +3
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Shellings, calls on Soviet territory were countless

    One of the versions of the reasons for the "Mainil incident" is that the Finns covered the withdrawal of their reconnaissance and sabotage group.
    1. kalibr
      9 December 2019 17: 48
      -5
      Quote: Stormsdruttin
      One of the versions

      You well noticed that there are a lot of versions. So much that which is 100% true and can not be determined.
      1. LeonidL
        LeonidL 10 December 2019 02: 48
        -1
        Truth always wins. Whoever won is right.
  48. kalibr
    10 December 2019 09: 09
    0
    Quote: LeonidL
    Whoever won is right.

    A very slippery statement that needs clarification as to who won, when, where ...
  49. kalibr
    10 December 2019 21: 26
    -2
    Quote: ccsr
    So I was alarmed that you suddenly launched a vigorous activity on the military site to push through your research in the field of PR and propaganda, especially since there are specialized sites for this, as you noticed.
    Do you think this is appropriate for military review?

    Less need to be wary! And why special sites when there is this one? People everywhere people ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 11 December 2019 11: 42
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      Less need to be wary! And why special sites when there is this one?

      Do you want to turn it into a trash heap, where you can place whatever comes to mind for popularizers of "science" like you? This is possible and will give you additional dividends personally, but the quality of the site will not improve, but most likely will become worse - this is a fact.
      1. kalibr
        11 December 2019 12: 42
        0
        Am I writing about Hyperborea and the conspiracy of dark forces against Russia, general deception and other "fun". Does it bother you? In online journalism, the number of clicks matters. And if it grows, then everything is in order!
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 11 December 2019 13: 24
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          Am I writing about Hyperborea and the conspiracy of dark forces against Russia, general deception and other "fun". Does it bother you?

          And how can you relate to the author who decided to present military history to us on the basis of the Pravda newspaper, especially since people like me subscribed it themselves in Soviet times, and they know what it was intended for. Even the newspaper "Izvestia" in terms of information outperformed "Pravda", and you decided to be smart and give the military specialists some ideological excerpts from the newspaper of those years. What will this give for understanding military history, can you say?
          Quote: kalibr
          Does this bother you?

          It’s rather surprising how you cleverly slipped a dummy - apparently the skills of the PR profession were not in vain.
          1. kalibr
            11 December 2019 16: 40
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            It’s rather surprising how you cleverly slipped a dummy - apparently the skills of the PR profession were not in vain.

            The main word in your philippic is "clever". Indeed, nothing goes for nothing ... with smart people. One must be able to use any available source of information. Now look at how many people have read this material, that is, made a "click", and pay attention to how many liked it in the comments. So what are you talking about? We work for people. The VO audience is wide, someone likes what about Hyperborea ... someone is interested in the Pravda newspaper as a source ...
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 11 December 2019 19: 39
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Now look at how many people have read this material, that is, made a "click",

              The themes of war are always interesting, so your merit is not there.
              Quote: kalibr
              So what are you talking about?

              The fact that military history cannot be studied using the Kommunist Armed Forces magazine (in this case Pravda), but it is better to use at least Voenno-istoricheskiy Zhurnal (or Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper) - I hope this for future publications will help.
              Otherwise, your work will not be taken seriously, and will be considered your propaganda materials, but not historical.
              1. kalibr
                11 December 2019 21: 08
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                Otherwise, your work will not be taken seriously, and will be considered your propaganda materials, but not historical.

                This to me, you know, it’s completely indifferent to me ...
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 11 December 2019 21: 15
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  This to me, you know, it’s completely indifferent to me ...

                  Do not lie - your fertility on the forum just says the opposite.
                  1. kalibr
                    11 December 2019 22: 20
                    0
                    Why should I lie to someone when I don't know? I honestly wrote to you that online journalism is a click. Including yours and mine. And all of them increase the investment attractiveness of the site.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 12 December 2019 13: 13
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      I honestly wrote to you that online journalism is a click.

                      In terms of making money, yes. And in terms of knowing the truth, online journalism is a very mediocre product.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And all of them increase the investment attractiveness of the site.

                      You can’t argue with that. Sorry, are you the owner of the resource or at the bid?
          2. kalibr
            11 December 2019 16: 50
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            and know what it was for.

            And for what?
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 11 December 2019 19: 40
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              And for what?

              For your own PR, and you know it perfectly.
              1. kalibr
                11 December 2019 21: 09
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                For your own PR

                For PR VKP (b), as I understand it?
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 11 December 2019 21: 15
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  For PR VKP (b), as I understand it?

                  For the personal, in the wake of interest in our past.
                  1. kalibr
                    11 December 2019 22: 22
                    0
                    It was about the Pravda newspaper and I asked about the newspaper. And personal PR is also good. The main rule of PR people is that there is no such beastliness from which a real PR man would not cut himself a slice of ham.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 12 December 2019 13: 19
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      It was about the Pravda newspaper and I asked about the newspaper. And personal PR is also good.

                      I perfectly understood how your material was born - you grabbed several cuts of the newspaper Pravda from the war period from the archive, rolled it all with verbal flour, and slightly sprinkled with a share of "sharp" reflections, you bungled what you thought was a hot dish.
                      But people who are literate and knowledgeable in military affairs, immediately realized, just like you, however, that this is a dummy that you need for your own ego, and which cannot be considered serious work on the history of the Great Patriotic War.
                      However, you yourself evaluated your material, saying:
                      Quote: kalibr
                      The main rule of PR specialists is that there is no shame from which a real PR specialist would not cut off chunks of ham.

                      Bon appetit, you lover of fried.
                      1. kalibr
                        12 December 2019 16: 55
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        But people who are literate and knowledgeable in military affairs, immediately realized, just like you, however, that this is a dummy that you need for your own ego, and which cannot be considered serious work on the history of the Great Patriotic War.

                        I don’t know how about you, you are our literate, but I’m talking about one thing for you, and you tell me with the stubbornness of an idiot about another. First of all, read not only yourself and my answers, but also other people. As you can see, many people liked the material. Well, thank God! An Internet site is a collector of popular science information, and the word "popular" is the dominant one. Therefore, here and about Hyperborea, and "dummy" from "Pravda". If you want serious publications - welcome to the pages of the magazines "Voprosy istorii", "VIZH", "History of the Russian State and Law". And here it is not necessary to look for something that simply cannot be here. And no ego has anything to do with it, writing in VO is my job. Go to the profile and see the status. Visitor - visits and leaves clicks and comments. Journalist - writes articles for him. Different people, different articles. I hope now I have already explained everything in an accessible way? And soon the same articles with newspaper clippings will appear and some will like them again, but some will not. So what?
                      2. ccsr
                        ccsr 12 December 2019 18: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I don’t know how you are about the priest, you are our competent, but only I tell you about one thing, and you tell me with the stubbornness of an idiot about the other.

                        So I painted everything correctly, and you perfectly understood that.
                        Quote: kalibr
                        writing in VO is my job.

                        It’s strange that this is your job — after all, you are from party propagandists and not from military experts. I believe that those who have an idea of ​​military affairs should write on the profile forum.
                        Quote: kalibr
                        So what?

                        You did not answer - are you the owner or on payment?
                      3. kalibr
                        12 December 2019 18: 37
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So I painted everything correctly, and you perfectly understood that.

                        Everyone who makes clicks can write anything. This is his right and the more he clicks, the better!
  50. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 11 December 2019 08: 13
    -1
    IN.! the work on your part is huge. I read everything. I am in shock. Thanks you.
    1. kalibr
      11 December 2019 12: 44
      0
      Quote: Grim Reaper
      the work on your part is huge. I read everything. I am in shock. Thanks you.

      Dear Alexey! This is what ... So I just returned from the archive, where I shoveled the entire binder TRUE for the WHOLE 1940 to write a sequel. And now I'm in shock myself! However, wait until the material comes out, I will try to quickly make and lay out. To say what's interesting is to say nothing!