The economy of the Russian empire of the pre-revolutionary period: what it was

Each economic system has its own form of power. The liberal-democratic form of power expresses the interests of large capitals, which initially speaks of the strangeness of hopes for social justice in this form of government.

Candidate of Economic Sciences Vasily Galin on the Day TV channel answers the question of whether it was possible to avoid the bourgeois revolution in Russia in February 1917 and continue to develop in the context of the emerging market. In this case, the expert calls not to equate the market and capitalism.

Vasily Galin:

The market also existed under feudalism. The market exists in many African countries (with undeveloped economies) today. But only under capitalism is capital the basis. Without capital, capitalism itself is impossible.

The expert cites the statement of the first Russian Prime Minister Witte from 1898 of the year. According to the then head of government, Russia was not provided with sufficient capital at the end of the 19th century. In terms of the value of movable property, the Russian Empire lagged behind France five times, and from England in 10 times.

This suggests that talking about the "prosperous" economy of the Russian Empire in the pre-revolutionary period is wrong if we consider this economy against the background of Western competitors.

Reasoning of an expert economist:

Comments

[Pessimist22]

How would it be if .....
From the cycle, if my grandmother had a member, she would be a grandfather.

[ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH]

In just three war years (1914-1916), chemical products grew 2,52 times (from 337,7 to 853,5 million gold rubles in 1913 prices), metal processing - 3,01 times (from 628,1 to 1888,4 million rubles in 1913 prices), engineering - 4,76 times (from 200,2 to 954,6 million rubles, also in 1913 prices). In 1916, the production of industrial equipment as a whole grew 3,15 times compared with 1913. If in 1913 domestic engineering gave 30,7% of equipment for Russian industry, then in 1916 it accounted for 66,9% of equipment deliveries. In 1916, Russia imported industrial equipment for 108,2 million rubles in 1913 prices, and it itself produced (within the borders of the pre-war USSR) 218,5 million rubles at the same prices .. Such a pace did not happen even during the first five-year periods which the followers of the Witnesses of the Soviet Paradise (USSR) are accustomed to boast about.
Russian Empire by 1917
1. The volume of GDP increased from 1913 to 1916. by 21,5%.
2. Production potential increased from 1914 to early 1917. by 40%.
3. Production of engineering products increased 3 times.
4. The production of chemicals has doubled.
5. The production of artillery guns increased 10 times and reached 11,3 thousand guns per year.
6. The production of artillery shells increased by 20 times and amounted to 67 million pieces per year. In particular, the production of medium-caliber shells increased 10 times and reached the level of 610 thousand pieces per month.
7. Release of heavy artillery guns from 1915 to 1916 increased by 7 times.
8. The release of light artillery guns (caliber 3 dm.) From 1915 to early 1917. increased 13 times, light artillery as a whole - 10 times.
9. The production of rifles increased 11 times and amounted to 3,3 million units per year.
10. The production of machine guns increased from 1916 to early 1917. 2 times. In total, from 1914 to early 1917, the production of machine guns increased 6 times.
11. Release of hand grenades from 1915 to 1916 increased by 23 times.
12. The release of bombers increased by 7 times - from 1548 pieces in 1915 to 10850 in 1916. The release of ammunition for bombers increased by 19 times.
13. The release of mortars from 1915 to 1916 grew 1,3 times.
14. In 1916, the Russian Empire adopted the Fedorov assault rifle, the latest weapon of its time.
15. By the number of combat aircraft, Russia was at the level of Germany and France - at the front there were 1039 airplanes. From the beginning of the war to February 1917, aircraft production increased by 3 times.
16. The share of those mobilized in Russia was only 39% of men aged 15 to 49 years, i.e. less than in any of the warring countries (for example, in Germany there were 81%, and in France - 79%). For every thousand men aged 15-49, Russia lost 45 people (for comparison, Germany - 125, France - 133).
17. The number of the Russian Imperial Army increased 5 times - from 1 million 300 thousand people in 1914 to 6 million 845 thousand people in 1916. There was no shortage of human resources in Russia.
18. The army was reorganized, as a result of which the firepower of the divisions was increased, 48 new divisions were created, and 750 thousand militias were expected for the “third wave” divisions. Improved equipment engineering.
19. Over the years of the war, 1 people became George Cavaliers, and, as you know, the Order of St. George was the most prestigious military award in the Russian Empire, which was received only for special services to the Fatherland.
20. There were practically no revolutionary and defeatist sentiments in the army. At the beginning of 1917, 81-87% of all letters of soldiers and officers sent from the front carried a positive connotation; they did not even have a shadow of apathy, defeatism, or opposition sentiments. Official military sources testified to the high fighting spirit of the Russian Imperial Army in the winter of 1917.
21. Russia, the only warring country, did not experience any food problems (sugar cards only). In 1916, large grain crops were collected - 3,8 billion pounds. In addition, 500 million pounds of meat were harvested. In all the other countries participating in the war, coupons for bread, meat and other food products were introduced for a long time (in Germany, for example, from 1915). In Germany, about 700 thousand people died from starvation during the war, in Austria- about 350 thousand.
22. Over 3 thousand new plants and factories were built. Old industrial enterprises modernized and expanded.
23. More than 5 thousand km were laid. railway lines, in particular, the strategically important railway Petrograd - Romanov-on-Murman. Of these, half by the beginning of 1917 was completed. The number of railways and highways to the western borders has doubled.
24. There has been an increase in mining. In particular, oil production increased from 1913 to early 1917. 1,2 times.
25. Light industry was actively developing. Cloth production increased from 1915 to 1916. from 430 to 534 thousand tithes (or 583 thousand hectares). The cultivated areas in Turkestan were actively developed, which made it possible to open a number of textile enterprises.
26. In December 1918, a plan for electrification of the country was approved - it was planned to begin construction of the Dnieper.
27. The country's population voluntarily raised 8 billion rubles for an internal loan to the government to continue the war. This is about 50 rubles. per person, a very large figure, given the total population of the Russian Empire.
28. The population of Russia increased by 9,5 million people - from 175,1 million in 1914 to 184,6 million in 1917. Moreover, in other countries participating in the war, since 1915, mortality exceeded the birth rate.
29. The annual income of the Russian peasantry from 1914 to 1916 almost doubled due to the supply of horses, food and military equipment, as well as due to the payment of benefits to mobilized families.
30. Incomes of workers also increased — the state paid mobilized benefits to families totaling 275 million rubles.
31. The combat losses of the Russian Imperial Army in battles (according to various sources, from 511 to 598 thousand people killed) were less than the total losses of the opposing armies of Germany (300 thousand), Austria-Hungary (450 thousand) and the Ottoman Empire (150 thousand) 1,5 times. The number of captured Germans, Austrians and Turks in Russian captivity was approximately equal to the number of captured Russians in the camp of the enemy.
32. Having lost strategically insignificant regions of Poland, Western Belarus and Lithuania, the Russian Imperial Army captured Austrian Galicia, almost reaching the Hungarian Plain, and liberated the vast territory of the Transcaucasian Caucasus from the Ottoman Empire, reaching Trebizond in the east and Lake Van on south. In addition, Russian troops took control of the large Iraqi region, rich in oil, and the northern and central regions of Persia, including Tehran. There was no question of any danger of advancing enemy troops deep into Russian territory - the front was stable.
33. In 1917, large offensive operations were planned against the Germans (in Poland and East Prussia), the Austrians (in Galicia, with access to the Hungarian plain) and the Turks (further advancement in the Caucasus, as well as naval landing with the aim of capturing Istanbul). The war was planned to be completed by the fall of this year.
34. The military and political authority of the Russian Empire became so high that in 1917 an inter-allied conference of the Entente countries on military issues, as well as on the post-war structure of Europe, gathered for the first time in the war not in Paris, but in Petrograd.
35. According to the agreement with the countries of the Entente, the Russian Empire after the victorious end of the war was to receive the German and Austrian lands of Poland (it was planned to combine them with the Russians, and granted Poland autonomy within Russia), Austrian Galicia, part of the lands of Turkish Transcaucasia (in particular, Turkish Armenia), the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits with Constantinople, as well as a protectorate over Palestine.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH

. Incomes of workers also increased - the state paid mobilized benefits to families totaling 275 million rubles.

Wow, you! How is it all the way! One question, why the soldiers fled from all fronts, with clipped under the greatcoat?

[Basil50]

Economics of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE ...
It somehow fell into the hands of the construction of a power plant on the Volkhov River, to produce aluminum.
So there, after the construction of the power plant itself, Nikolai the second wished that the power plant was sold to the French, they were very asking. At the same time, the payment for the power plant will be * then * and at a price that the French themselves will consider * fair *.
And there were many such examples. Do you know about the famous Yuzovka? And about the famous weapons factories in Tula? And about how Putilov created the plant and was out of work?
And this is only about the most famous and major scams that were carried out with the help of the king himself, and the king had relatives, and there were also courtiers, and there were those who served these courtiers ....
There even RUSSIAN-Japanese war began because of selfish interests * Bezobrazovskoy clique *. At the same time, even the censorship of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, as well as the outcome of the war, could not contain indignation at the causes of the war.

[d ^ Amir]

Lena mines in the piggy bank, also belonged to the British, natural hard labor, brought the matter to an uprising, and then shot the rebels ... in general, the family of this very canonized was mastered an awesome business - renting the motherland and people for cheap

[Basil50]

At Lensky mines the British were tenants. In the RUSSIAN EMPIRE they tried * to otmazatsya * from killing starving workers and their families by the fact that * they are all British *, but it came up that the owner was someone from * grand dukes or princesses *, and RUSSIAN SOLDIERS of the imperial army were shot.
Then in the Civil War, the White fought the same way, just like the Nazis.

[AU Ivanov.]

And the Reds fought, probably humanely and humane? Especially in the Crimea. Oh well.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: d ^ Amir

Lena mines in the piggy bank

The Kyshtym mining plants of the future US President Hoover there too. He was engaged in the supply of food for the starving Soviet Russia, espionage and subversive activities in the 20s.

[Basil50]

Mordvin
Are these the factories where military teams were formed to help Kolchakites?
Helping the starving was very peculiar, furnished with a bunch of conditions. Sometimes very * peculiar *. Even more * surprising * were the organizations that distributed this assistance. Not for nothing that they were then almost completely shot dead. Unforgettable Koreiko is just the same model of those figures in helping the starving, but still more decent.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Vasily50

Are these the factories where military teams were formed to help Kolchakites?

I don’t know anything about the teams from those factories to help the Kolchakites.

[AU Ivanov.]

Then the Bolsheviks took up the same business. They handed over everything and everything to the concession.

[Fevralsk. Morev]

Announce the entire list, please.

[AU Ivanov.]

During the years 1922-1926. in Chief
concession committee under the SNK of the USSR
2015 concession offers from foreigners
. Most concession offers
sent by American firms. With american
entrepreneurs in the 1920s Soviet ruler
The concession agreements for
development of a gold-bearing area on the Semartak River
in Siberia, provided by Virt for a period of 20 years,
with RAGAZ Company (Russian-American mixed
joint stock company for the production of
gases ”) for the production of oxygen, acetylene and
other gases, with the Barnsdale Oil Corporation
deposits in the Caucasus, with New York
by WA Harriman and Company in Chiatura
manganese mining for a period of 20 years and some
others.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Fevralsk. Morev]

As a result of the economic baikot of the West, the USSR was deprived of the opportunity to take loans from foreign banks. I had to cooperate in the form of concessions, since they allowed avoiding claims from former foreign owners and paying royal debts. In the years 1925-1926 there were 330, in the years 1929-1930 there were 134 concessions. These concessions were a joint venture where the head of the board, ALWAYS, was a citizen of the USSR, the profit was shared 51:49 in our favor. Dividends were paid primarily to the Soviet side. On 01.01.1926, the USSR invested 9 million rubles in concessions, and foreigners 38 million rubles. The USSR provided an object for managing, foreigners invested capital, technology and training of specialists. By 1930, 59 concessions remained in the USSR. 27.12.1930/1962/1975 SNK of the USSR annulled all agreements on concessions. They stayed with the Swedes until XNUMX and with the Japanese until XNUMX. This is how the Bolsheviks traded Mother Russia. But it wasn’t like that under the tsar-priest.

[Mcar]

The economy in the Republic of Ingushetia was approximately the same as it is now in the Russian Federation, i.e. no way. And that is to say the least.

A word to the ardent monarchist, anti-communist and white emigrant Solonevich:
“The fact of Russia's extreme economic backwardness compared to the rest of the cultural world is beyond any doubt. According to the figures of 1912, per capita national income was: in the USA 720 rubles (in gold, pre-war), in England - 500, in Germany - 300, in Italy - 230 and in Russia - 110.
So, the average Russian, even before the First World War, was almost 7 times poorer than the average American, and more than 2 times poorer than the average Italian. Even bread - our main wealth - was scarce. If England consumed 24 pounds per capita, Germany 27 pounds, and the USA - as much as 62 pounds, then Russian consumption of bread was only 21, 6 pounds - including livestock feed in all this. It should be borne in mind that in the diet of Russia bread occupied such a place as it did not take anywhere else in other countries. In the rich countries of the world, bread was replaced by meat and dairy products and fish. ” (I. Solonevich "People's Monarchy", M., 2003, pp. 77-78).

The incomes of the bulk of the urban population were extremely low, as now (in rubles):
female servants 3-5, male 5-10, laborers, workers in provincial factories 8-15, junior civil service rank 20, workers in metallurgical plants in the capitals 25-35, paramedic 35, foremen, foremen 50-80, second lieutenant 80, doctor of the zemstvo hospital, High school teacher 80, Captain 135-145, Head of the railway station 150-300, Colonel 320, State Duma deputy 350, General 500-725, Minister 1500.
There were only a few brigadiers, paramedics, teachers, colonels and deputies, but the workers and others were more than 9/10.

But this is a city. 80% of the subjects of the Republic of Ingushetia were peasants, or more broadly - rural residents. How did they live?
In the twentieth century, crop failures were not an exception, but the rule in the peasant farms of tsarist Russia. In the years 1901-1902, 49 provinces were starving; in 1905, 1906, 1907, 1908 starving from 19 to 29 provinces; in 1911-1912 famine swept over 60 provinces. According to various estimates, in the years 1901-1912, about 8 million people died of starvation and its consequences without fighting in Russia. On the brink of death were 30 million people. According to the military department, 40% of recruits reported, and they were mainly from peasants, they first tasted meat in the army.

The situation with the catastrophic state of life of the common people was well known to the supreme power. S.Yu. Witte, at a ministerial meeting chaired by Nicholas II and discussing the foundations of the current commercial and industrial policy in Russia, said: “If we compare consumption in our country and in Europe, the average per capita consumption will be in Russia a quarter or fifth of what is considered necessary in other countries for ordinary existence ".

In 1913, the most economically prosperous in the whole of Russian pre-revolutionary history, for example, in the Tula province (average in prosperity of peasant farms), one peasant consumed 18,8 kg (less than 52 g per day) of meat, fat, and poultry per year (in total) , oil - 600 g (a little more than one and a half grams per day), sugar - 3,3 kg (9 g per day). And this is the best year to live in the less obese - it’s better not to even imagine.

Solonevich began, let him finish:
“Thus, the old emigrant songs about Russia as a country in which rivers flowed from champagne on the banks of a spawn caviar are artificially crafted fake: yes, there was champagne and caviar, but - for less than one percent of the country's population. The bulk of this population lived at a beggarly level. ” (I. Solonevich "People's Monarchy", M., 2003,)

[Svarog]

The economy in the Republic of Ingushetia was approximately the same as it is now in the Russian Federation, i.e. no way. And that is to say the least.

So it is ... Revolutions out of the blue do not happen ... I mean when everything in the state is good. 14% of the educated population, household syphilis is a very common phenomenon, transmitted through dirty water .. There was essentially no industry, the country was a purely agrarian power ..

[lucul]

In 1913, the most economically prosperous in the whole of Russian pre-revolutionary history, for example, in the Tula province (average in prosperity of peasant farms), one peasant consumed 18,8 kg (less than 52 g per day) of meat, fat, and poultry per year (in total) , oil - 600 g (a little more than one and a half grams per day), sugar - 3,3 kg (9 g per day). And this is the best year to live in the less obese - it’s better not to even imagine.

Yeah, only these indicators of 1913 per capita, the USSR was able to surpass only the 1970-1980s.

[Mcar]

Quote: lucul

In 1913, the most economically prosperous in the whole of Russian pre-revolutionary history, for example, in the Tula province (average in prosperity of peasant farms), one peasant consumed 18,8 kg (less than 52 g per day) of meat, fat, and poultry per year (in total) , oil - 600 g (a little more than one and a half grams per day), sugar - 3,3 kg (9 g per day). And this is the best year to live in the less obese - it’s better not to even imagine.

Yeah, only these indicators of 1913 per capita, the USSR was able to surpass only the 1970-1980s.

And so I am from a family of Soviet oligarchs!

I remember well the 70s. All my childhood, adolescence, youth, meat and dairy products were not transferred in our refrigerator. Moreover, on each shelf in 2-3 floors, and it was terribly annoying - in order to get something I had to make a lot of manipulations. And all sorts of sweet things ...

Anti-Soviet, at least Russophobe and only then everything else.

[AU Ivanov.]

Yeah, just to get these meat products, you had to at least stand in line. And, in my small Motherland, I had to go to Leningrad for 5 hours - we had a ball of Katy on the shelves. I also remember this time well.

[Mcar]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Yeah, just to get these meat products, you had to at least stand in line.

No need to whistle.

All markets of the Soviet Union were overfilled with meat. Paired - in the morning grunted, mumbled, clucked. If you are comparing, then do not cheat - now is the market? market! well then it is necessary to compare the markets.

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And, in my small Motherland, I had to go to Leningrad for 5 hours - we had a ball of Katy on the shelves.

So it was necessary to us - at the back of the world!

Here the bananas, which I somehow hated as a child before vomiting, were not available - deficit. And milk and milk ... To whom you are telling fables - on me, almost from the first class, there were all the main purchases of food, since the shops were in my and neighboring five-story buildings. At rush hours, from 17 p.m. there really were lines. Well, so the factory village - everything from the factory directly to the store. And in the afternoon no queues. And to solve the problem of queues would be simple - to pull up prices to unbearable, and voila! - visitors in the store would be like in a museum. But we know that socialism is not about profit, but about people, because everything was cheap.

As for the assortment - yes, it was not a lot, I won't lie. But, in the refrigerator, everyone had everything. Ever wondered why this is? The answer is simple - enough was produced in the country, but there were people who needed to create an artificial shortage. It turns out that everyone had something that they could buy without "getting out", but then "a warehouse manager, a commodity manager, a store manager is like a simple engineer" (c).

And further. The food was natural. And now a surrogate. Do you know why? Because capitalism.

[AU Ivanov.]

The products were natural, because there were no surrogacy technologies and nothing else. It's not about isms, but about the lack of appropriate technologies. I think that in RI ALL products were strictly natural.
You had meat products in your store. We couldn't even buy a blue chicken. To the "sausage" train and to St. Petersburg. Pskov, Novgorod - to Leningrad, Kaluga, Tula, Kalinin - to Moscow.

[Mcar]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The products were natural, because there was no surrogate technology yet.

Horseradish radish is not sweeter - "surrogate technology" generally came into being only because capitalism.

[AU Ivanov.]

Yes, of course, in the Soviet Union there was no margarine and cellulose was not added to meat products. Even if we suppose that surrogates appeared thanks to capitalism, then socialism very quickly learned from capitalism.

[Mcar]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Yes, of course, in the Soviet Union there was no margarine and cellulose was not added to meat products.

Do not cast a shadow over the wattle fence.

1. I do not know about cellulose in sausage. But as a person who understands a little about the dependence of health on nutrition, I can say that "food cellulose" is, in Russian, fiber. An ordinary person, especially a city dweller, i.e. not preoccupied with nutrition, chronically lacks fiber, which leads to many formidable diseases. So if it was so, I don't see much sedition in that.

2. Margarine is an indispensable product when baking. And in the Union margarine was not called oil, as it is now. On bread, like a sandwich, I smeared margarine for only a year - in the first year. Well, who lived in a student hostel should understand what I mean. And so - people did not use margarine as butter. Not smeared on bread, not added to porridge, mashed potatoes, etc. Now it is impossible to distinguish margarine from oil - the glory of the chemical industry!

So do not mow here under the mentally weakened. You all perfectly understood, only you continue to be engaged in trolling with tenacity worthy of a Stakhanovite. The Union did not deceive people, calling margarine butter, and white liquid milk.

[AU Ivanov.]

Margarine, like trans fat, is much more harmful to the body than current fillers. Dietary cellulose is not absorbed by the human body, we are not herbivores, it's just a filler for weight. Margarine was added to food: butter was not available in all regions of the USSR. And by the content of nitro compounds in vegetables, the USSR was ahead of the rest.

[Mcar]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Dietary cellulose is not absorbed by the human body.

Once there was such an execution - the convict was fed only meat. Those. nothing vegetable, nothing that contains fiber - ballast substances that are not absorbed by the body, but perform a tremendously important function of intestinal motility. A man died in terrible agony after a few weeks. Not digestible ...

[nikvic46]

Andrei. And there was margarine, and there was hydro fat. And margarine was even chocolate.

[Edvid]

".. As for the assortment - yes, it was not a lot, I will not lie. But, in the refrigerator, everyone had everything full .."
////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////
I probably lived in another country at that time ...
In Artyom, Primorsky Territory (120000 population, seven mines), it was only in the seventies that there was an opportunity to queue up to buy the Ocean refrigerator. Before that, no one had them in the city at all ... Eternal queues for everything ... In the sixties, the queues for bread the next day, occupied from the previous evening. In the seventies it got better - they sold no more than two loaves per hand. Residents massively used vegetable gardens to grow vegetables, many kept cows, pigs and chickens. The man finished his shift, then worked hard in his garden ...
In addition, the party was very fond of people to joyfully work on free subbotniks, to constantly "work out" on countless agricultural lands and vegetable stores. They got out "reciprocal obligations and plans", next "initiatives". In particular, I remember the all-Union "initiative" of railway workers to haul not forty train cars, but sixty. Now the same locomotives are pulling 80 cars each without any "initiative".

[Mcar]

Quote: Edvid

They got out "reciprocal obligations and plans", next "initiatives". In particular, I remember the all-Union "initiative" of railway workers to haul not forty train cars, but sixty. Now the same locomotives pull 80 cars each without any "initiative".

In the last sentence you said everything. )))

If we compare the 70s - 80s with the present day, we come to the conclusion that the consumption of the most basic food products, despite the shelf abundance decreased. But calcium deficiency (the main source of dairy products) leads to more than 150 formidable diseases. And none of those in power has anything to do. Temporary workers - well, you think, the people will be stunted, so it’s later, I won’t be at the post, so let the next helmsman have a headache.

[_Sergei_]

If you had relatives in the trade, then the refrigerator was certainly full. My father and mother worked at the factory. Meat can only be bought in the bazaar at a price three times the store price. But sausages and something made of meat can’t be bought anywhere else. Although our meat factory worked year-round. Cattle was driven from Mongolia all fall. All products went to Moscow and major cities.

[Mcar]

Quote: _Sergey_

If you had relatives in the trade, then the refrigerator was certainly full.

And if there wasn’t?

Quote: _Sergey_

Meat can only be bought in the bazaar at a price three times the store price.

And now the market price has moved to the store. What - is it better?

[AU Ivanov.]

Now the price, based on the purchasing power of the ruble, food prices are not higher than in Soviet times. The course of sovrubl to the current, about 1: 200, so consider it. Soviet sausage at 2.90 now costs 580.
So that is better. The choice is richer and products are more affordable.

[Mcar]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Now the price, based on the purchasing power of the ruble, food prices are not higher than in Soviet times. The course of sovrubl to the current, about 1: 200, so consider it.

And the bookkeeper calculated how much the apartment, rent, education, medicine, treatment, sanatorium, sports sections, art circles and a host of others cost in the Union now?

[AU Ivanov.]

You can also calculate how much household appliances and clothing cost. And their range. Cars, after all. Comparison is far from in favor of the Union.

[Mcar]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

You can also calculate how much household appliances and clothing cost. And their range. Cars, after all. Comparison is far from in favor of the Union.

The wolf needs 3 kg of meat, and the cow 20 kg of hay. By weight, the comparison is not in favor of the cow.

You are trying to compare incomparable things - the goal-setting of different formations. Those. do what nerd with help. What for? You are a smart person.

And further. Before comparing, you need to open any textbook and read about the fact that in the 20th century there was the most terrible war in the history of mankind, in which the USSR suffered in material and human senses more than any other peoples and countries. When you shoot optics at a distant target, do you correct for the wind? Why is there a different approach?

[AU Ivanov.]

The difficulties could be attributed to the war in the 50s-60s, but not in the 70s-80s. Convenient position: the absence of basic goods in the era of "developed socialism" blame the Great Patriotic War. Well, not for the Patriotic War of 1812.

[Mcar]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The difficulties could be attributed to the war in the 50s-60s, but not in the 70s-80s. Convenient position: the absence of basic goods in the era of "developed socialism" blame the Great Patriotic War. Well, not for the Patriotic War of 1812.

And this is your ideological inspirer and ally tried - Khrushchev. It was with him that the filigree-minded mechanism of the economy was peddling. You read your friends - what you wrote in the USA about what will happen if everything goes on for at least ten years. This is in the 50s. If Khrushchev did not put his illiterate nose into the economy, then how would we live now, i.e. after as many as 70 years, i.e. 7 times in 10, after the anxious pearls of the Americans, it’s even hard to imagine.

Again. Do not mow under the MA. You are a normal person and do not try to look worse than you are.

[AU Ivanov.]

If only, if only. I did not find the Stalinist era, I was born at the end of Khrushchev's rule. Therefore, I am writing exclusively about what I saw with my own eyes: "the era of developed socialism"

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Cars, after all.

Or the fare on the same train on which you rode for sausage.

[AU Ivanov.]

The train to St. Petersburg cost 4.60, as I remember now. Common wagon. Now the ticket costs 540 rubles. As you can see, even cheaper than with the scoop.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The train to St. Petersburg cost 4.60, as I remember now.

Our train to Moscow cost 4-20. Reserved seat. Now - a bus from 850 and above. Without any toilets, naturally. I will not mention the city metro buses, you yourself know everything.

[WIKI]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The course of sovrubl to the current, approximately 1: 200,

"How much gold was there in the Soviet ruble in 1985? If we take the price in dollars on the London Metal Exchange and multiply it by the official exchange rate set at that time by the State Bank of the USSR, it turns out that 1 gram of the precious yellow metal could then be bought for 8,52, 2700 rubles With the price and exchange rate prevailing today, you need to have already 2800-2019 rubles Divide the price-1985 (for example, in March) by the price-320. And you're done! 1 rubles. - this amount is equivalent today to 34 rubles. , which the citizens of the USSR paid to 1985 years ago. Conversion of food prices of 2019 into prices of 1 based on the gold equivalent gives an unexpected result: they turn out to be much higher than we see in stores today. If the same butter would be worth now in Soviet level, for 1093 kg you would have to pay 569 rubles instead of 115, and for a liter of milk - 55 rubles instead of XNUMX "

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: McAr

I remember well the 70s. All my childhood, adolescence, youth, meat and dairy products were not transferred in our refrigerator. Moreover, on each shelf in 2-3 floors, and it was terribly annoying - in order to get something I had to make a lot of manipulations. And all sorts of sweet things ...

Man, your personal refrigerator is never an indicator of the standard of living in the country.

As for me - I also perfectly remember the 70s. 2-3 floors on a shelf - there was none of the sweet, mostly a piece of loaf, dipped in sugar. How do you like it?

Quote: McAr

No need to whistle

In-in. Tie it already, ears are laying

[Mcar]

Quote: Golovan Jack

from sweet, basically - a piece of loaf, dipped in sugar. How do you like it?

So it was necessary to us - on the outskirts of the village, which is on the outskirts of the city, which is on the outskirts of the country.

I would treat barberry for 30 kopeks of bags, ice cream for 18 kopeks, cake of the most different for 22 kopeks, cake for 10 kopeks ... In short, you had a wrong childhood.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: McAr

I would treat barberry for 30 cents a bag, frozen for 18 cents, a cake of the most different for 22 cents, a cake for 10 cents ...

Druzhban, you have now spoken on the ruble. Ruble for me, kid - then there was a lot of money ... but for you, the campaign, no.

Now we understand "three floors of grub on each shelf" and other "abundance of sweets".

Quote: McAr

it was necessary to us, on the outskirts of the village, which is on the outskirts of the city, which is on the outskirts of the country

Well, the village, then designate ... special supply campaign?

And it will tell me here for the "life of the country" ... I would be ashamed at least, or something

[Mcar]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Druzhban, you have now spoken on the ruble. Ruble for me, kid - then there was a lot of money ... but for you, the campaign, no.

Now we understand "three floors of grub on each shelf" and other "abundance of sweets".

The ruble with big money for me ceased to be the thirtieth anniversary of the Victory in World War II.

What can you understand? The secret is simple - one mother must be raised without a father.

Quote: Golovan Jack

Well, the village, then designate ... special supply campaign?

Gorky's name.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: McAr

What can you understand?

And here it is:

Quote: McAr

All my childhood, adolescence, youth, meat and dairy products were not transferred in our refrigerator. Moreover, on each shelf in 2-3 floors, and it was terribly annoying - in order to get something I had to make a lot of manipulations. And all sorts of sweet things ...

Since ruby ​​wasn’t money for a jerk ... well, then it’s exactly all clear.

Only not everyone was such a laf ... buddy

Quote: McAr

Gorky's name

Magadan, or what?

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Only not everyone was such a laf ... buddy

the family was simple, without any frills, the meat was always and not on holidays

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Now we understand "three floors of grub on each shelf" and other "abundance of sweets".

once again a family of engineers, two refrigerators and both are not empty

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Barmaleyka

once again a family of engineers, two refrigerators and both are not empty

Makar, is that you again? I do not recognize you in makeup

[Barmaleyka]

firstly, broodershaft didn’t drink, so let's all the same on "you"
secondly on the topic is there to argue?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Barmaleyka

firstly, broodershaft didn’t drink, so let's all the same on "you"

My "you" still needs to be earned. You, apparently, have not succeeded yet.

Quote: Barmaleyka

on the topic is there to argue?

I feed trolls only on Fridays. Not lucky for you ... buddy

[Barmaleyka]

you showed your essence in all its glory, a difficult childhood, hunger and cold will be indulgent to you

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Barmaleyka

will be indulgent to you

Pity yourself, you do it well

[Squelcher]

It’s awesome we lived for 86 years, there’s no hot water, you want to wash, chop wood with titanium, wash on your hands and board, no gas, race for Bulgarian and Polish clothes, black and white TV set horizon, mother and father worked in hazardous work without PPE , queues for an apartment and a car are easier than paying the mortgage now, the people have wooden doors since there wasn’t much to steal unless you are a nomenclature or a salesman. Free medicine at the level of the 40s, from the instrument to diagnostics and medicines, just super!

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: lucul

Yeah, only these indicators of 1913 per capita, the USSR was able to surpass only the 1970-1980s.

what are these?
specific figures in the studio, even about the average temperature in the hospital

[parusnik]

But we’re breaking spears on the site, for which the white and the red fought ... The first for paying debts to foreign powers, the second against paying .... The first for economic bondage, the second against .. And the foreign interventionists during the Civil War, white they didn’t help, but were present on the territory of Russia, purely from altruistic motives, here we will pick up our little things and leave ...

[AU Ivanov.]

Debts, in a decent society, it is customary to pay. What is in relations between people, what is in relations between states.

[The Siberian barber]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Debts, in a decent society, it is customary to pay. What is in relations between people, what is in relations between states.

I agree with you!
This thesis must be repeated to our former allies, current partners, constantly))
But probably the gentlemen have different views)
Well, as for the article: it’s interesting to read another comment by Nick Olegovich about how the damned Bolsheviks destroyed the wonderful world order of the Republic of Ingushetia, with wonderful August attempts, on takeoff

[Basil50]

Well no.
In addition to the robbery, the interventionists killed RUSSIAN people quite professionally.
The interventionists in the former RUSSIAN EMPIRE looked after colonies and that led the natives to submission. If it didn’t turn out to conquer like in Transcaucasia, it was destroyed, despite political predilections, like the British in the north or the Japanese in the Far East.
And already about debts.
How and how much the French-British stole from their ally of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE is still bashfully hushed up. It is silent and WHERE did it happen that both the tsar himself and the RUSSIAN EMPIRE kept in import banks.
The current Queen of England was not embarrassed to take pictures in jewelry belonging to the royal family and which were STEALED by English spies.

[AU Ivanov.]

The most professional, in terms of the destruction of the Russian people, were not the interventionists, but the Bolsheviks. Especially that part of it that bore not quite Russian surnames.

[The Siberian barber]

Tell the residents of the Arkhangelsk province about the "low professionalism" of the "gentlemen" on both sides of the ocean

[AU Ivanov.]

No matter how brutal the British were atrocities in the Russian North, to the red Latvian shooters they barefoot as to Beijing.

[The Siberian barber]

Civil war is the worst thing that can happen to the state. All are "good"! And there is simply no point in measuring spilled blood in liters, by both sides.
In this polemic, we are discussing the "liberators" from over the hill.
Bright elves, in comparison with the natives, barbarians, directly.

[AU Ivanov.]

I agree: civil war is a shameful war. But it’s one thing when newcomers are atrocious and much worse when their own, homegrown.

[The Siberian barber]

Who called them here ?? Husband and wife, in their dispute, the neighbor is not called. Let's be fair: in that tragedy, the "white" were not angels, on the wings of love, too)
I mean that ALL are "good", and who is "better" the argument is pointless. Everyone committed atrocities, and I can't even imagine the "best"))

[Barmaleyka]

I’ll tell you a terrible secret, if the Bolsheviks hadn’t ceased to exist by 20, Russia would have survived, at best, within the boundaries of the Golden Ring

[Squelcher]

Leninists and terrorists almost completely ruined Russia; thanks to Stalin, he managed to rectify the situation at the cost of enormous sacrifices; it was not in vain that he cleaned up practically all Leninists.

[Barmaleyka]

do not specify the dates when Stalin came to power, when the USSR was created and when the civil war ended

[Squelcher]

And you yourself do not know these dates?
Maybe someone gave you the right to conduct exams?
The Revolution Betrayed, written in 1937, Trotsky lists numerous examples of Stalin's "betrayal" of the revolutionary cause in favor of "Great Russian chauvinism." The apologist for the world revolution could not, for example, forgive Stalin that now schoolchildren are being brought up in the spirit of respect for the army of Suvorov, which Trotsky called "the army of feudal slaves." Trotsky saw manifestations of "national conservatism" in the measures taken by Stalin to strengthen the family, which for the "revolutionary" remained "an archaic, musty, rotten institution."
Briefly
"Bolsheviks" are Trotsky, the Comintern, the world revolution and ki passionately with the fascists read Radek's speech at an enlarged meeting of the Cominter in 1923.

"Communists" Stalin, the economic councils, the building of socialism in a single state (which turned out to be state capitalism) and the war against the National Socialists, which we know as the Great Patriotic War.

[Barmaleyka]

that is, in the case, say nothing of the usual bla-yula show

[Squelcher]

How self-critical, respect!

[Barmaleyka]

Once again, when the civil war ended, what party did Stalin belong to when the USSR was created? !!!

Quote: Squelcher

and the war with the National Socialists, which we know as the Great Patriotic War.

what’s this ?!

Quote: Squelcher

(which turned out to be state capitalism)

learn the mat part is tired of chewing the basics

[Squelcher]

Once again someone gave you the right to take exams?
How many times have you read the complete works of Lenin? Or from the mouth remember?
Maybe bother and read then compare what Lenin wanted and what Stalin did. Teacher of Truths.
But Pavka Korchagin did not show pity for himself or the enemy, unlike you. You see, you are tired, with such followers of Lenin's ideas are directly doomed to "success".

[Fevralsk. Morev]

Quote: McAr

The bulk of this population lived at a beggarly level. ” (I. Solonevich “People’s Monarchy”,

With such memoirs it is necessary to hit the insolent, well-fed muzzle of the adherents of the sect "Russia, which we have lost" and "Tsarebozhnikov".

[Vadim237]

"The bulk of this population lived at a beggarly level." (I. Solonevich "People's Monarchy" "- After the Bolsheviks came to power, the bulk of the population also continued to live at a beggarly level and the land from the peasants was finally taken away like a piece of bread - in the literal sense , civil war, surplus appropriation, collectivization, dispossession of kulaks, famine, repression, won, the Russian village, thanks to the above events, died safely.

[Fevralsk. Morev]

We read the article by L.N. Tolstoy "On Hunger"? This is the village that died. If everything was so bad in the village (dekulakization, repression, food appropriation), then in your opinion, Soviet people, fluttering Jewish-Bolshevik commissars, at gunpoint Nagans, were forced to perform feats in the name of the Motherland.
I remember the village in 1985 and saw it now. If the village under the communists died, then what now?

[Vadim237]

Now there is no understandable business of the village - the remaining people don’t give a damn about all kinds of subsidies and regional transfers, people leave for regional centers and urban-type towns. Because there is nothing to do in the village - the agricultural holdings are mainly engaged in agricultural holdings and I must say very successfully.

[nikvic46]

Everyone talks about a particular system, often based on their own well-being. Most Soviet people did not receive anything from the previous government (I mean money), and therefore they had a dispute over the feelings they experienced. The USSR was not afraid to compare their achievements with 1913. It was possible to read this in every newspaper. I don’t think that China’s economy is going down. Each supply of natural resources increases the number of jobs. And if you consider that it will export finished products (but not technology), then the number of these t increase.

[Thompson]

Watch a recent movie about the Decembrists. They will tell you about the delights of a good life in Russia.
And apparently from a good life, the first plans were - electrification and industrialization with an educational program! Isn't it strange ??? and this is only a micro part of the legacy of "Great" Russia to the future of the "insignificant" USSR!