Military Review

Why were the Finns confident in victory over the USSR

317
Why were the Finns confident in victory over the USSR

Winter war The Finnish government underestimated the enemy. It was concluded that the USSR is a colossus with feet of clay. That Finland, even alone, can fight the USSR and win. In addition, there was confidence that the Finns would support the world community.


The cure for stupidity


Soviet-Finnish War of 1939–1940 looks like stupidity of the Finnish elite. And the victory of the USSR is a cure for stupidity. The reasonableness of Moscow’s demands on Helsinki was obvious to everyone, even the Finns themselves. In anticipation of and with the outbreak of World War II, the Soviet government could no longer drag out a solution to the problem of defense of Leningrad - the country's second most important vital center, with the issue of freedom of exit and actions of the Baltic fleet (then the most powerful fleet of Russia). And with the loss of Leningrad ports, the enemy turned the Leningrad Region into a strategic bridgehead for invading deep into Russia.

Therefore, the Russian tsars attached such great importance to the defense of St. Petersburg and the approaches to it. But then it was easier. Russia owned the Baltic states and the Grand Duchy of Finland. Our batteries were on the southern and northern shores of the Gulf of Finland, the Baltic Fleet had several strong bases. The collapse of the Russian Empire led to the complete loss of these positions. The southern coast remained behind Estonia, the northern coast behind Finland. The Baltic Fleet was, in fact, blocked in Kronstadt. Finnish long-range artillery could hit Kronstadt, our ships and the city.

Moscow conscientiously and by all means tried to negotiate with Helsinki. As soon as Hitler took Austria, the USSR began to persuade Finland to be a good neighbor. Already in April 1938, Moscow secretly proposed to Helsinki a local military alliance that the Finns would resist the Germans in the event of their invasion of Finland, and the Soviet side promised assistance with troops, navy, aviation и weapons. The Finns refused.

Moscow began to look for options. She offered to protect the Finnish coast with the support of the Baltic Fleet if Germany attacked Finland. The Finns refused. Meanwhile, the situation in Europe continued to deteriorate. England and France surrendered to the Germans the Czechoslovak Sudetenland. Prague itself refused to defend itself. It became obvious that all agreements in the West are no more than paper, if there are no "large battalions" behind it. The Soviet government is increasing pressure on the Finns. In October 1938, the USSR offered Finland assistance in building a military base on the Finnish island of Gogland in the Gulf of Finland and, if the Finns could not cope with the defense of this island, defend it together. Helsinki refused. Moscow asks to transfer several islands in the Gulf of Finland to rent for 30 years. Helsinki is failing.

Then, in the spring of 1939, Moscow offers a concession to much larger Soviet territory in exchange for islands in the Gulf of Finland. The Finns themselves understood that these were quite reasonable requirements, a matter of vital necessity for Russia-the USSR. Having learned about these negotiations, the Finnish Army Commander-in-Chief, Marshal Mannerheim, offers the government to cede to Moscow and exchange not only the requested islands, but also the territory of the Karelian Isthmus. However, the Finnish government continued to stand its ground.

Interestingly, if Helsinki accepted Moscow’s proposals, then Finland and all the people would benefit from this. After all, it was not without reason that Mannerheim offered himself as the person responsible for the exchange of territories. His position as a hero of Finland would only have been strengthened by this, since the territory of the country was growing at the suggestion of Moscow. In addition, the Union was ready for numerous economic advantages for a friendly neighboring state. However, the Finnish government carefully concealed the essence of the requests of the Soviet government not only from the Finnish people, but also from the legislative branch. That is, the arguments of the Finnish government were so weak that they could not be discussed not only in the press and society, but also in parliamentary commissions. Moscow's demands were quite reasonable and fair, and even moderate.

At first, Moscow did not stutter about the transfer of the Karelian Isthmus to the USSR, although this step was also quite logical and fair. But after Helsinki refused to concede even the smallest, Moscow tightened requirements. It became completely obvious that in a future war Finland would side with the enemies of Russia. Then Moscow formulated new conditions: to lease the Union for 30 years a piece of land on the Hanko Peninsula (at the entrance to the Gulf of Finland) with the aim of creating a Soviet military base there and moving the border on the Karelian Isthmus to the Mannerheim Line in exchange for much larger Soviet territory. Moreover, it was Cape Hanko that remained the main request. In the matter of moving the border from Leningrad, Moscow was ready to make concessions (move less than 70 km).

The Soviet-Finnish negotiations were conducted in the autumn of the 1939 year, already in the conditions of the beginning of the great war in Europe. The importance of negotiations for Moscow is evidenced by the fact that Stalin personally spoke with the Finns. So Molotov negotiated with the Germans, although they also had strategic importance for the USSR. What Stalin did not offer the Finns: lands in Karelia (their Finns tried to seize in the 1918 – 1922 years), monetary compensation for property on the Karelian Isthmus, economic benefits, concessions in mutual trade. When the Finnish side stated that it could not tolerate a foreign base on its territory, Stalin proposed digging a canal across the Hanko Peninsula and making the base an island, offering to buy a piece of land on the cape and thereby make Soviet territory. Then the Finns were offered to buy from them several small uninhabited islands at Cape Hanko, which the members of the Finnish delegation did not even know about. All in vain!


Finnish machine gunner with a Finnish Lahti-Saloranta machine gun M-26

Why did the Finns believe in victory


Negotiations show that the Finnish government had iron confidence in victory in a possible war with the USSR. Therefore, the Finnish side did not make any concessions, and, obviously, was looking for war. Only the war went according to a different scenario, not according to the plan of Helsinki.

The Finnish elite made two major mistakes. Firstly, underestimated the enemy. It must be remembered that the victorious Soviet Union of the 1945 model of the year and Soviet Russia of the 1920 of the first half of the 1930 of the year are two different countries. The Finns remembered Russia in the 20s. A country that barely escaped death during the Russian Troubles and intervention, which lost the war to Poland and lost huge West Russian regions. A country that without a fight surrendered the entire Baltic. The Soviet government, which turned a blind eye to the genocide of Russians in Finland, to the destruction of the Red Finns, to the robbery of Russian property, to two aggressive wars waged by the Finns against Russia.

Hitler's definition of the USSR as a “colossus with feet of clay” was then dominant in the West. It is worth remembering that the same strategic mistake, like Finland in the fall of 1939, will be committed by the Third Reich in the summer of 1941. Hitler’s elite was sure that it would defeat Russia before the winter. During the lightning war. That the Russian colossus will fall apart under the blows of the “invincible” Wehrmacht, that Russia will collapse under the yoke of problems, due to the actions of the “fifth column”, military conspirators and separatists. The whole West slept through the enormous changes that occurred in Russia-the USSR in just a few years. The Stalinist USSR was already a qualitatively different power: with a powerful, albeit crude army, which still had to be tempered in the fire of a terrible war; with a developed industry and defense industry, high scientific, technical and educational potential. The people became different, the nucleus of the society of the future arose in the country. True patriots, smart, healthy, ready for self-sacrifice.

All Finnish intelligence was then conducted through Soviet dissidents, and they hated the Union, were interested in a corresponding distortion of reality. Finnish secret police on the eve of the war reported to the government that most of the population of the USSR (75%) hates power. That is, it was concluded that it was only necessary to enter the Soviet lands, as the population would meet the "liberators" with bread and salt. The Finnish General Staff, analyzing Blucher's inarticulate actions in the Hassan conflict, concluded that the Red Army could not only advance, but competently defend itself. As a result, the Finnish government concluded that even Finland alone could fight the USSR and win. But most likely the West will come to the aid of Finland.

Secondly, in Helsinki they were sure that they would be supported by Western democracies. These calculations had real reasons. France and England at that time waged a “strange” war with Germany. That is, there was no real war. The allies were waiting for Hitler to turn his bayonets to the East, against the USSR. London not only did not restrain Helsinki from war with the USSR, on the contrary, incited Finns to Russians. The British wanted to take the Kola Peninsula from the Russians. They themselves did not want to fight, but as usual they used "cannon fodder" - Finnish.

In January 1940, the Chief of the General Staff of England, General E. Ironside, presented to the military cabinet a memorandum on "The main strategy of the war." In it, he noted that the allies can provide effective assistance to Finland “only if we attack Russia from as many directions as possible and, most importantly, strike at Baku, the region of oil production, to cause a serious state crisis in Russia” . That is, London was ready for a war with Russia. Similar positions were held in France. At the end of January 1940, the French commander-in-chief General M.G. Gamelen expressed confidence that during the 1940 campaign, Germany would not attack the allies, so the Anglo-French expeditionary force could be landed in Pechenga (Petsamo) and, together with the Finnish army, deploy active military operations against the USSR.

The British government, in principle, was ready to go to war with the Russians. “Events, apparently, lead to the fact,” Chamberlain told 29 at a cabinet meeting in January, “that the Allies will openly engage in military operations against Russia.” In early February, the British prime minister went to Paris, to the highest military council. It discussed a concrete plan for a joint intervention in Northern Europe. Chamberlain proposed the landing of expeditionary forces in Norway and Sweden, which would expand the Soviet-Finnish conflict, prevent the defeat of Finland by Russians and at the same time block the supply of Swedish ore to Germany. The head of the French government, Daladier, supported this plan. It was planned to send not only French troops to Scandinavia and Finland, but also English divisions, which were formed to be sent to the French front.

Also in Paris and London they hatched the idea of ​​organizing an offensive against Russia with “giant ticks”: a strike from the north (including the capture of Leningrad) and a strike from the south (from the Caucasus). The Petsama operation provided for the landing of more than 100 thousand Anglo-French troops in Scandinavia. The landing party in Petsamo was supposed to capture the Murmansk railway and Murmansk, and thereby receive maritime communications to supply troops and a railway to develop the offensive to the south. The allies also prepared the Air Force for strikes from bases in Syria and Iraq in Baku, Batumi and Grozny. Only an unexpected victory for the Red Army in the West in February - March of the 1940 of the year made England and France postpone the strike on the USSR until better times.


Finnish soldiers with a machine gun "Maxim" M / 32-33 in the forest


Soldiers of the ski battalion of the Finnish troops on the march. For transportation of cargo, deer and drags are used.


Fighter of the Dutch development Fokker D XXI No. FR-110 of the Finnish Air Force on a ski chassis

War so war


Thus, London and Paris prepared a completely different scenario of the world war - England, France and Finland (possibly other countries) against the USSR. Having great powers behind and underestimating the Russians, the Finns were overwhelmed with optimism, and even plans for a war with the USSR were prepared exclusively offensive. According to these plans, the Mannerheim line was to repel the enemy’s onslaught in a southerly direction, and the Finnish army attacked in an eastward direction, in Karelia. Finland was going to establish a new border with Russia along the Neva, the southern shore of Lake Ladoga, Svir, Lake Onega and further to the White Sea and the Arctic Ocean, with the inclusion of the Kola Peninsula. That is, “peaceful” Finland was preparing to double its territory. Only after the start of the war did they have to forget about the offensive. The first operations showed that the Red Army group in Karelia is too powerful to advance.

So the Finnish elite, dreaming of creating a “Great Finland” at the expense of Russian lands, made a huge mistake. Later, it will be done by Hitler. Admonition for Finland and Germany will be the defeat in the war and the victory of the Russians. Vyborg will again become Russian, and then Kaliningrad.

It is also worth paying attention to the fact that Finland was ready for war in the winter of 1939, but the USSR was not. Since Moscow did not want to fight the Finns, and Helsinki wanted war and prepared for it seriously. During the autumn talks, Finland was preparing for war: it evacuated the population of their border areas, mobilized the army. Mannerheim joyfully noted in his memoirs:

“... I wanted to shout that the first round was ours. We were able to transfer both the covering troops and the field army on time and in excellent condition to the front. We got enough time (4-6 weeks) for combat training of the troops, their acquaintance with the area, for the continuation of the construction of field fortifications, the preparation of destructive work, as well as for the installation of mines and the organization of minefields.


By the end of November 1939, the Finns had been ready for war for two months, and Moscow was pulling everything, trying to negotiate.

As a result, a provocation occurs, and the Red Army begins to admonish obstinate and aggressive Finns. The initial stage was difficult: Finland was ready for war, but the USSR was not. The Soviet command underestimated the enemy, intelligence made major miscalculations, the terrain was difficult, winter time, the enemy’s defense was powerful. The Red Army was poorly trained. The morale of the Finns is high, unlike the Poles, who surrendered almost immediately to the Germans, the northerners fought hard and hard. The Finnish command fought skillfully and decisively. However, Russians are able to draw conclusions from mistakes. At the second stage of the war, the Finnish army was defeated, the defense was hacked, Finland was on the verge of disaster and asked for peace. Moscow got everything she wanted and even more.


Finnish Tanks "Vickers", lined in the vicinity of the Perot station. February 1940


Calculation of the Soviet 122-mm howitzer sample 1910 / 30 gg. in position during the winter war. Photo source: http://waralbum.ru/
Author:
Articles from this series:
Winter War

The myth of the aggression of the "criminal Stalinist regime" against the "peaceful" Finland
What prompted the USSR to start a war with Finland
How the West was preparing a "crusade" against the USSR
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  1. Nick
    Nick 5 December 2019 05: 22 New
    +9
    Not for nothing that Bismarck had promised to fight with Russia. His words: “Russia is slowly harnessing but driving fast,” were fully confirmed in the Russo-Finnish war.
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 5 December 2019 08: 22 New
      +23
      Thus, London and Paris prepared a completely different scenario of the world war - England, France and Finland (and possibly other countries) against the USSR.
      Here I strongly doubt it. No, the fact that England was going to fight the USSR is not doubtful, but the fact that she was going to fight herself, with her own hands, is where I doubt it.
      Not without the help of the British, all of Europe went to Hitler. And the events of the "strange war" also hint at a lot. France was simply laid under the Reich and Parisians with flowers and tears of tenderness in their eyes met the Wehrmacht in the streets.
      The Finns initially focused more on Germany than on England, as if the swastika on technology spoke of this.
      It is not clear what was happening in Britain itself. In recently released footage, where the English king and his family are zooming at the camera, Chamberlain’s actions in a Munich agreement clearly give a picture of Britain’s support for Hitler’s actions. But what happened then? Why did Britain turn 180 degrees? Something went wrong in the Anglo-German conglomerate, or Hitler requested too much, or some other factors played a role, but something obviously happened between these spiders. Most likely the flight of Hess was to solve the confusion that arose, but again something did not work out. And all these secrets sit in Buckingham Palace. Maybe our great-great-great-grandchildren will learn this truth, but we will not know for sure.
      1. MoJloT
        MoJloT 5 December 2019 10: 26 New
        +4
        Are you probably a big fan of roadside driving?
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 5 December 2019 19: 25 New
        +7
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        The Finns initially focused more on Germany than on England, as if the swastika on technology spoke of this.

        In fact, the Finns had a swastika before Hitler came to power, and it was not turned like Hitler’s.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        english king with family ziggles on camera

        This zigzag king was forced to abdicate, and his younger brother, the father of the present queen, was crowned. Although not for a ridge, but for an unworthy marriage, but nonetheless.
        1. GDP
          GDP 6 December 2019 12: 42 New
          +3
          As regards aid to the west of Finland, the officially most arms were officially placed by the opponents of Germany. Here is an incomplete help list:
          United Kingdom
          75 aircraft
          114 field guns
          200 anti-tank guns
          124 automatic small arms
          70 anti-tank rifles
          France
          30 aircraft
          160 field guns
          500 machine guns
          Sweden 29 aircraft
          112 field guns
          85 anti-tank guns
          104 anti-aircraft guns
          500 units of automatic small arms
          80 thousand rifles

          Denmark 30 pieces of 20 mm anti-tank guns
          Italy
          35 fighter Fiat G.50
          94,5 thousand rifles
          1560 Beretta pistols
          Union of South Africa - 22 Gloster Gauntlet II fighter

          USA 10 thousand rifles
          44 Fighter
          Belgium 171 MP.28-II submachine gun

          This is not counting the millions of grenades, mines, bomb shells, ammunition of qualified specialists, pilots from Sweden and the USA.

          Germany delivered, I quote "an unknown amount of weapons from Polish warehouses"
          1. GDP
            GDP 6 December 2019 12: 55 New
            +8
            It is curious that if on the eve of the war, the Finnish army officially had 265000 troops, opposed by 425000 Red Army men who stormed the fortifications, pillboxes, bunkers, and dense forests of Finland, during the most inconvenient winter time, during the war the Finns were supplied only with 126000 small arms! It is unlikely that the Finns would carry two rifles each, which means that in the midst of the war the Finnish army should have been at least 400000, that is, comparable to the army of the Red Army invasion (provided that the Germans supplied the captured Polish weapons to the Germans - they were completely insignificant (which big doubt)). So the shocking phrase about the half-million Finnish army, if exaggerated, is insignificant, or the Finns specifically downplay their losses. And of course, all those films in which a handful of brave Finnish guys fight against innumerable hordes of reds are also lies.
            1. GDP
              GDP 6 December 2019 13: 05 New
              +5
              By the way, a huge amount of weapons, that our future allies, that their enemies, simply failed to deliver Finland, so France did not manage to deliver another 119! airplanes. And these deliveries came from both sides in the conditions of the war with Germany! And we are still condemned for signing the non-aggression pact with Germany))
      3. maxim947
        maxim947 6 December 2019 19: 20 New
        +3
        Alexander Suvorov
        I agree with you, I will add only about the terrible hatred at that time of the whole West towards Soviet Russia. Everyone was ready to lie under Hitler, but not an alliance with the USSR. Now, not much has changed in relation to us, they are only more afraid.
        And Hess was recognized by Britons as half-fucking and, according to Churchill, he was not taken seriously. Well, where is the truth, who knows ...)
        1. technarj
          technarj 27 February 2020 22: 51 New
          0
          Hess was half-crazy - so at the end of the century he had to hang, yeah.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 5 December 2019 09: 15 New
      -15
      Quote: Nick
      Not for nothing that Bismarck had promised to fight with Russia. His words: “Russia is slowly harnessing but driving fast,” were fully confirmed in the Russo-Finnish war.

      Are you really sure that this is Finland that started the war with the USSR ?????
      1. grave
        grave 5 December 2019 12: 47 New
        +16
        She began mobilization at the end of September 1939. By November, all the troops had already been deployed.
      2. Nick
        Nick 5 December 2019 14: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: RUSS
        Quote: Nick
        Not for nothing that Bismarck had promised to fight with Russia. His words: “Russia is slowly harnessing but driving fast,” were fully confirmed in the Russo-Finnish war.

        Are you really sure that this is Finland that started the war with the USSR ?????

        I didn’t say anything about the start of the war. But if you want, the first salvo was from the Finnish side.
        1. Niko
          Niko 5 December 2019 17: 50 New
          -21
          That's for sure. Like the Poles attacked the peaceful neighbors at 39m, because of which they (the neighbors) HAD to cross the border
          1. UAZ 452
            UAZ 452 5 December 2019 20: 07 New
            +19
            Peaceful Poles in the 38th were the best friends of the same Czechoslovakia, and in the 33rd Pilsudski with his signature under the pact with Hitler wanted to express his extreme disapproval to him.
            1. Niko
              Niko 6 December 2019 12: 10 New
              -10
              No one argues that you can, if you wish, find a reason to blame anyone for anything. It was understood that even Germany, before attacking Poland, organized a provocation, supposedly the Poles attacked
          2. Nick
            Nick 6 December 2019 01: 21 New
            +9
            Quote: Niko
            That's for sure. Like the Poles attacked the peaceful neighbors at 39m, because of which they (the neighbors) HAD to cross the border

            Peaceful Poles !? It’s ridiculous. I recall Churchill called the Poles a hyena of Europe, after they, together with Hitler, participated in the capture of Czechoslovakia.
            1. Niko
              Niko 6 December 2019 12: 06 New
              -5
              Where are the "peaceful Poles" ???
            2. Niko
              Niko 6 December 2019 12: 15 New
              -1
              Churchill and the USSR called ..... it’s just interesting that most people, seemingly educated and intelligent, spend a lot of words trying to prove that “THEY” are BAD! Although they acted in exactly the same way as "WE" it is just possible for us, it's us !!!!! And they can’t be !!!!!! "who are they?"
              1. Nick
                Nick 6 December 2019 13: 39 New
                +2
                Quote: Niko
                Churchill and the USSR called .....

                At that time, when the Polish army captured part of the territory of Czechoslovakia, namely Tieszyn Silesia, Orava and Spis. Churchill said about Russia: From a commentary on May 4, 1939: “There is no way to keep the Eastern Front against Nazi aggression without Russia's active assistance. Russia is deeply interested in thwarting Hitler’s intentions in Eastern Europe. There may still be an opportunity to unite all states and peoples from the Baltic to the Black Sea into a single solid front ... ".
                1. Niko
                  Niko 6 December 2019 17: 34 New
                  -3
                  AND? It is CONVENIENT to PERFORM YOUR LIKING QUOTE FROM ANYONE WHO MAKED THE HISTORY OF "GREAT" (WITH SUBTEXT: THAT IS A SMART PERSON SAID!) AND WHEN TEN QUOTE COMES TO ME AND THEREFORE: THERE'S ANYTHING. THIS SAME "GREAT" AUTHORITY TO AWARDS, AFTER BN DOES NOT SPEAK MORE THAN WHAT NEEDS
                  1. Nick
                    Nick 6 December 2019 22: 35 New
                    +2
                    Caps lock disconnect.
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 6 December 2019 13: 47 New
          +1
          [/ Quote]
          I didn’t say anything about the start of the war. But if you want, the first salvo was from the Finnish side. [/ Quote]
          But why did the Finns need this? In fact, all of their artillery was taken far to the rear
          1. Nick
            Nick 6 December 2019 13: 52 New
            +1
            [quote = Pilat2009] [/ quote]
            I didn’t say anything about the start of the war. But if you want, the first salvo was from the Finnish side. [/ Quote]
            But why did the Finns need this? In fact, all of their artillery was taken far to the rear [/ quote]
            Why did the Finns need this? Ask the Finns. Most likely they wanted to chop off the Russian compatriots. They certainly claimed Karelia, and maybe Peter dreamed. Who will understand these phlegmatic people?
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 6 December 2019 19: 04 New
            +5
            Quote: Pilat2009
            But why did the Finns need this? In fact, all of their artillery was taken far to the rear

            And why did Saakashvili shell the peacekeepers of the nuclear power, who were military personnel of the Russian army, which could even equal all of Georgia?
        3. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 6 December 2019 16: 58 New
          +2
          About the first salvo Are you serious?
          1. Sergey Zhikharev
            Sergey Zhikharev 6 December 2019 19: 06 New
            +1
            And why not?
            If the Finns have mobilized since September, they are waiting for a war, but there is no war and no war. People are sitting in the trenches, they were torn from work (and other things), so they ask, "why are we sitting in the trenches?" To begin with, doctrines. Then - the Russians are about to attack, but the Russians are not attacking. A little more, and people will need to be sent back to their homes (the exercises do not last long). And it’s bad for the economy when a country goes to wartime. And then - how convenient - the Russians begin the war.
            1. Oleg Zorin
              Oleg Zorin 9 December 2019 03: 45 New
              0
              Would you write novels ... alternative historical
              1. Sergey Zhikharev
                Sergey Zhikharev 10 December 2019 09: 16 New
                0
                Ok, I’ll do it.
        4. shmel
          shmel 5 January 2020 01: 34 New
          0
          Alas, buddy. provocation in der. Mine arranged the NKVD, as well as a provocation in Gleivitz. Do not read Soviet newspapers at night, my young friend!
          1. perm23
            perm23 30 January 2020 05: 36 New
            0
            the shots in Mineil did not serve as a cause, but only as an excuse for war. shelling of Soviet territory has repeatedly happened before. Moreover, some of these incidents, for example, December 12, 1936, occurred precisely in the vicinity of Mainila. For a month with a little before the notorious shelling, on October 15, 1939, just at Mainila, a passenger car was fired from a machine gun from the Finnish side. The comic of the situation was that it turned out to be the car of the Finnish government delegation returning from the next round of negotiations in Moscow. according to Soviet documentary sources, one of the Finnish batteries was located in the Jappinen area (5 km from Mainila). By the way, a couple of days later, on November 28, two more armed incidents occurred on the Soviet-Finnish border. And if what happened in the area of ​​the isthmus between the Rybachy and Sredny peninsulas: Finnish soldiers attacked our border guards or vice versa, you can still argue, then the incident in the Vidlitsky district northwest of Lake Ladoga speaks for itself. At this site, a Finnish reconnaissance group broke through the border into Finland, sent earlier to Soviet territory by the Sortavala branch of the Finnish army intelligence service.
      3. lelik613
        lelik613 6 December 2019 06: 08 New
        0
        Yes, and with a high degree of probability under the influence of England interested in the war of all against all.
      4. Fraracol_2
        Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 32 New
        -5
        What is the most terrible and shameful that not only he, but also 24 users, at the moment, seem to have such an opinion? !!!!
      5. ccsr
        ccsr 6 December 2019 19: 07 New
        +2
        Quote: RUSS
        Are you really sure that this is Finland that started the war with the USSR ?????

        Are you sure that it was not Saakashvili who fired on our peacekeepers, but they themselves attacked Georgia?
      6. cradle
        cradle 31 January 2020 05: 47 New
        0
        Are you really sure that it was Finland who started the war with the USSR ????? [/ quot
        Any doubts? Or the Maynil incident sideways?
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 05: 34 New
    0
    The swastika is very annoying, albeit since 1918.
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 05: 46 New
    +23
    The strange thing is, no one considers the Finns to be cowards, however, according to THEIR statistics, only 10% of the official strength of the Finnish army at the start of the Winter War are killed. With such generally not very significant losses, they requested peace, and if cowardice is excluded, then the losses were significantly higher than stated.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 5 December 2019 07: 29 New
      +18
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      then the losses were significantly higher than claimed.
      ... or speed уwere the army became unacceptable ...
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 5 December 2019 07: 45 New
        +22
        Finns quite in the spirit of Europe considered their losses. The Germans in general claimed two million of their losses from 1941 to 1945.
        There are a lot of tricks taking into account, including those who got into hospitals and were buried at hospitals in losses were not taken into account. Well, and much more.
        It is in the RED ARMY that ALL losses were taken into account, including the wounded.
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 5 December 2019 10: 09 New
          +17
          Since the beginning of 1939, the three millionth of Finland began to mobilize the army. By August 1939, more than five hundred thousand (500000) armed fighters stood under arms. By the way, they were almost the first to draft women in the army.
          This is very out of the notorious 10% of the population. But the Finns managed to mobilize and arm this army.
          In the Soviet Union until 1938 the whole army, along with border guards, was six hundred thousand (600000) soldiers.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 5 December 2019 13: 04 New
            +12
            Quote: Vasily50
            Since the beginning of 1939, the three millionth of Finland began to mobilize the army. By August 1939, more than five hundred thousand (500000) armed fighters stood under arms.

            It is difficult to believe in this figure, because it turns out that every sixth Finn was mobilized into the armed forces, and this does not fit into the calculations, because there is not enough strength in such a situation to support such an army.

            Quote: Simargl
            or the rate of decline of the army became unacceptable ...

            Most likely, they simply ran out of all pre-war supplies, and they simply had nothing to fight and feed the army after the losses.
            The time factor played against the Finns, and their commanders turned out to be simply illiterate, since they did not take it into account in the war against the USSR, which possessed a small army, but great military and economic potential. Hitler and his entourage made the same mistake - he simply had no idea that the war could drag on not for months, but for years.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 14: 28 New
              +13
              Sweden, which declared its neutrality at the beginning of World War II, however, did not declare neutrality during the Winter War, but declared itself as a non-combatant. This made it possible to actively assist Finland by supplying military equipment, raw materials [37] and finances. About 8,7 thousand Swedes went to fight in Finland against the Soviet troops. The Swedish army, which was reducing its forces, personally handed over one-third of its weapons to the Finnish troops: according to various estimates, the Swedes transferred from 80 [41] to 135 thousand rifles [42], 500 automatic rifles and machine guns, 50 million cartridges [ 40], about 330 guns (including 112 field, 85 anti-tank, 104 anti-aircraft), 30 thousand artillery shells [40] and 29 aircraft. The Swedish government has allowed the country’s “Finnish business is our business” campaign to raise donations for Finland, and the State Bank of Sweden has provided a loan to Finland
              This is only Sweden!
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 5 December 2019 19: 11 New
                +6
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                About 8,7 thousand Swedes went to fight in Finland against the Soviet troops.

                Firstly, this is about half of the division, and secondly, volunteers are not a cadre army, and therefore it is simply unreasonable to consider that this amount could seriously help the Finnish army, which had to fight against several hundred thousand Soviet soldiers.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                he personally handed over one third of his weapons to the Finnish troops: according to various estimates, the Swedes transferred from 80 [41] to 135 thousand rifles [42], 500 automatic rifles and machine guns, 50 million rounds [40], about 330 guns during the war years including 112 field, 85 anti-tank, 104 anti-aircraft), 30 thousand artillery shells [40] and 29 aircraft.

                These are serious figures, only who could master them if the Finnish army suffered losses, and it is impossible to make an intelligent artilleryman or pilot from a conscript in a month. Moreover, even a simple calculation shows that only 90 artillery shells fell on one transferred gun, and our artillery gun of various calibers of ammunition had from 140 to 200 shells according to the standards of that time. And how could this help really help Finland if, during one day of fighting, the gunners could spend the entire full-time base.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                This is only Sweden!

                If the whole of Finland were overwhelmed with weapons, their human resources would have been limited anyway, which means they would not have survived for long without the help of foreign armies - this is obvious.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 03: 49 New
                  0
                  So about the clearly understated statistics of Finnish losses and we are talking !!
                  Quote: ccsr
                  These are serious figures, only who could master them if the Finnish army suffered losses
                2. technarj
                  technarj 27 February 2020 23: 00 New
                  0
                  You missed a key point: "Sweden at this time cut their army. "I think that most of the volunteers were military personnel.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 28 February 2020 11: 55 New
                    +1
                    Quote: technarj
                    "Sweden was reducing its army at that time." I think that most of the volunteers were military personnel.

                    True military personnel have the least desire to get into a war with a strong enemy, because well understand how it can end for them personally. But even if this were admitted, they would still need a month or two to adapt and practice cohesion in a foreign army. But the question is not even that, but how many professionals could be among the volunteers - as I understand it, you do not have these statistics, so the discussion is pointless.
              2. Fraracol_2
                Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 35 New
                -4
                Do you think Sweden is worthy of condemnation?
            2. Simargl
              Simargl 5 December 2019 15: 21 New
              +8
              Quote: ccsr
              Most likely, they simply ran out of all pre-war supplies, and they simply had nothing to fight and feed the army after the losses.
              War is a resource-intensive occupation. Whoever ends faster is the one who loses.
              I say that the Finns watched how they ended (speed) and decided not to bring them to a very miserable state (they probably expected to recoup in a coalition with the Nazis).

              Quote: ccsr
              their generals were simply illiterate
              Based on the foregoing - rather little / poorly informed.
            3. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 03: 58 New
              -1
              Quote: ccsr
              It is difficult to believe in this figure, because it turns out that every sixth Finn was mobilized

              Not every sixth, but every seventh.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 6 December 2019 12: 08 New
                +1
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Not every sixth, but every seventh.

                I don’t know at which school you studied arithmetic, but based on this text
                Since the beginning of 1939 three millionth Finland began to mobilize the army. By August 1939, it was under arms more than five hundred thousand (500000) armed fighters.
                , then dividing three million by half a million, you get a ratio of 1: 6.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 13: 56 New
                  0
                  3.7 million.
                  1. Oleg Zorin
                    Oleg Zorin 6 December 2019 17: 11 New
                    0
                    "You still have to fight, hot Finnish guys" (c) :)
                  2. ccsr
                    ccsr 6 December 2019 18: 43 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    3.7 million.

                    I apologize for the author of the text and his figure of 3 million, he did not take into account infants, children and decrepit old people as the mobile reserve of Finland, and this is a big strategic mistake in such calculations. You have truly made a revolution in defining the mobility reserve of any state — can you stick an article here on this topic?
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 18: 52 New
                      -2
                      You write about the mysterious mobility reserve, and 3.7 million is the population of Finland in 1939. The census generally takes into account ALL living people. If this is a revolution for you, then in what swamp of ignorance you were afraid to imagine.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 6 December 2019 19: 42 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        If this is a revolution for you, then in what swamp of ignorance you were afraid to imagine.

                        The mobile reserve is considered not according to the census, but according to other criteria - learn the materiel.
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 19: 44 New
                        0
                        Of course, you won’t bring the link, damn secrecy.
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 6 December 2019 20: 44 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Of course, you won’t bring the link, damn secrecy.

                        Those who have basic knowledge on this issue do not need links, from a word in general, especially if they dealt with issues of mobility reservation, for example, in terms of equipment and weapons.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 5 December 2019 12: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: Vasily50
      There are a lot of tricks taking into account, including those who got into hospitals and were buried at hospitals in losses were not taken into account. Well, and much more.
      Tricks in mind - this is so that you can then throw a bone to the liberde: she licks the owner’s boot in all the "stands" with shouts about "filling up the corpses."
    3. Simargl
      Simargl 6 January 2020 17: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Vasily50
      Finns quite in the spirit of Europe considered their losses.
      All military men think correctly. For the public, politicians are voiced as they need.
  4. knn54
    knn54 5 December 2019 13: 13 New
    +3
    NOBODY came to help.
  5. shmel
    shmel 5 January 2020 01: 40 New
    0
    The number of the Finnish army at the beginning of the winter war was 275 thousand people. Irreversible losses - 26 people. The Soviets lost 000 thousand people killed from 128 thousand army invasion.
  • Octopus
    Octopus 5 December 2019 08: 50 New
    -2
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    if cowardice is excluded, then the losses were significantly higher than declared.

    You see, for the 39th year, for no country, including the Reich, except the USSR, the phrase only 10% of the army - not applicable. Since Finland was fully mobilized, 10% of its army is 1% of the population, approx. 1,5 million people, translating into the scale of the USSR. Finland could not afford it yours only.

    USSR yes, he could.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 09: 32 New
      +9
      Those. Finns are chilled, if you believe. 10 percent of losses is not a reason to stop the offensive among the Americans! And then a defensive war for the Finnish fatherland! So another lamentation.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 5 December 2019 10: 05 New
        -2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        defensive war for the Finnish fatherland!

        Exactly. And they managed to save the fatherland, I dare to remind.
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        10 percent of losses is not a reason to stop the offensive among the Americans!

        You're right. As it may sound strange, Americans at that time were notable for overwhelming corpses. In the USSR, American stories are unlikely to find understanding, but the British were very surprised at this.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 10: 20 New
          +15
          I’ll try to explain, did the Finns believe in the “bloody Bolsheviks-Russia” and made peace with them having a considerable opportunity to resist? Why then didn’t they immediately agree, if they were so afraid of losses? The fact is that the USSR offered good compensation for the disputed lands.
          There is only one conclusion: the Finns suffered much heavier losses than reflected in their statistics. But we still did not remember about “shyutskor”.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 5 December 2019 11: 42 New
            -15
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            made peace with them having a considerable opportunity to resist?

            Kill more people? The idea is good, it was implemented a little later.
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            One conclusion: the Finns suffered much heavier losses than reflected in their statistics

            Yes Yes. You see, losses, accurate to a couple of million, could afford, again, the USSR, China and the colonies (for obvious reasons). In Europe, the losses are relatively well known.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 11: 51 New
              +7
              Quote: Octopus
              In Europe, the losses are relatively well known.

              Are you talking about German losses? The falsehood of their statistics has been analyzed for a long time and in detail, many hundreds of unaccounted for mass graves of Germans are guaranteed, and if not taken into account, then there is no loss. Once again about the Finns, if you believe the "European statistics, the most truthful," then the Finns are cowards, not even so, "pissed cheesecakes." I and the "European statistics, the most truthful," I do not believe. Something like this.
          2. Fraracol_2
            Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 41 New
            -2
            Rather, Finland would simply not exist as an independent country. The puppet "government" of the National Parents was already sitting on their suitcases.
      2. evgic
        evgic 5 December 2019 11: 23 New
        +15
        The question is not cowardice, courage. While it was possible to defend at convenient lines, and there was enough ammunition and ammunition fought. When it was necessary to leave the convenient position, the shells almost ran out, there was a problem with the cartridges, then there was only a rout and tens of thousands of dead and convoys of prisoners. They immediately preferred the world, although the conditions were already different, the time of the dates with the world conditions would have become even worse.
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 9 December 2019 19: 14 New
          +1
          They were lucky that they were dealing only with the Communists, and not with the same scumbags as they themselves. The USSR could calmly let Finland through the camps.
          They did it with ours.
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 5 December 2019 10: 35 New
    +10
    They were simply knocked out of the Mannerheim line, and then without fortified areas it became almost impossible to defend themselves. Yes, and the losses would have increased by several times.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 10: 52 New
      +6
      Needlessly knocked out, only knocked out with such small losses? Finnish bunkers could not dig up? That was the time. Motti tactics would continue to apply. After all, the forests remained behind the line. There was none of this. Because the Finns have no manpower either for fortification, or for ambushes, for no reason.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 5 December 2019 11: 51 New
        +2
        Ammunition is gone. It's about economics, not demography. Finns couldn't fight long without production
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 12: 01 New
          +5
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Ammunition is gone

          Here it is not necessary, huh? In general, the Soviet Union didn’t pull the blockade of Finland, it’s not just that the sea connection was not interrupted with Sweden, the land border was not interrupted. Ammunition is no use if there is no one to shoot!
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 5 December 2019 12: 42 New
            +1
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Ammunition is gone

            Here it is not necessary, huh? In general, the Soviet Union didn’t pull the blockade of Finland, it’s not just that the sea connection was not interrupted with Sweden, the land border was not interrupted. Ammunition is no use if there is no one to shoot!

            You must Fedya, you must. You need to pay for ammunition, but run out of money - take on credit! The army of dates was not defeated, but the economy broke the navel
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 12: 45 New
              +3
              But if Feddy Mikkolainen really needs, then the good Swedish neighbor neighbor (winks in Finnish) provided him this loan. Take a look at your leisure foreign support of Finland in the "Winter War".
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 5 December 2019 13: 19 New
                -1
                And what does it say that you do not need to give a loan? Or in a thousand years?
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 13: 39 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  And what’s said there is no need to repay a loan

                  A strange phrase, I write to the shock. )))
                  "Sweden, which declared its neutrality at the beginning of World War II, however, did not declare neutrality during the Winter War, but declared itself as a non-combatant. This allowed Finland to actively help by supplying military equipment, raw materials [37] and finances About 8,7 thousand Swedes went to fight in Finland against the Soviet troops.The Swedish army, which was reducing its forces, personally transferred one third of its weapons to the Finnish troops: according to various estimates, the Swedes transferred from 80 [41] to 135 thousand during the war years. rifles [42], 500 automatic grenade launchers and machine guns, 50 million rounds of ammunition [40], about 330 guns (including 112 field, 85 anti-tank, 104 anti-aircraft), 30 thousand artillery shells [40] and 29 aircraft.The Swedish government authorized the campaign “Finland Case” in the country Is our business ”to collect donations for Finland, and State Bank of Sweden provides loan to Finland"
                  Suddenly you are too lazy to look for foreign assistance, there are still many who have noted. Credit, if anything, went to the iPhone.
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 5 December 2019 13: 56 New
                    0
                    When I lived in a hostel, we called it a loan: borrow money from me and run for vodka!
                    Once again I ask: what will you give? This is not gum aid, but the sale of weapons, and the Finnish economy was not ready for a protracted war
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 14: 01 New
                      +3
                      How would a loan be granted on top of all that is written on top, how would a state give a loan and a little bit in kind, such as wood, pulp, like the Finns of Sweden. If this is not clear to you, then run for vodka! Do not torture yourself with letters!
                    2. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 6 December 2019 06: 57 New
                      0
                      if you still don’t understand that a loan is a loan that you need to give - at least gold, at least greyhound puppies, at least territories - but to give, then how to talk to you? And there is nothing to give, and there’s nothing to buy. Here the fairy tale ends, and not because the army is defeated. Otherwise, any Liechtenstein would take loans without giving them back and smash its neighbors for centuries.
                      Stalin won Republicans overwhelmed with equipment and ammunition on credit - but what's the point? He launched them around the world, and did not win the war. The Finnish economy did not drag out a long war - that’s why they lost
                    3. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 06: 59 New
                      0
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      a little bit in kind, such as wood there, pulp, like the Finns of Sweden
                      There is such an expression: "Slaughter in the eyes." I'm afraid it suits you.
                    4. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 6 December 2019 07: 16 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      a little bit in kind, such as wood there, pulp, like the Finns of Sweden
                      There is such an expression: "Slaughter in the eyes." I'm afraid it suits you.

                      Greyhound puppies, huh .. the USSR is a little in kind, even a percent of lendlize is not scraped, and here the mighty Finnish forest industry yes
                      And take it easy with expressions, cellulose! Or are you also from the minions who are not banned?
                    5. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 08: 26 New
                      0
                      What is it? Since when did cellulose become an abusive word, maybe since: "Wood pulp is used for the production of paper, plastics, film and film films, varnishes, smokeless powder etc. "Or maybe commercial timber is worthless? And if you are not aware of the really powerful Finnish forest industry, then face it!
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr 6 December 2019 12: 22 New
                  0
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Stalin won Republicans overwhelmed with equipment and ammunition on credit - but what's the point? He launched them around the world, and did not win the war.

                  The question is very controversial, won by Stalin or lost, because first of all we exported part of the gold from Spain. Secondly, the exported Spanish citizens for many years were citizens of our country and fought against the Nazis, and most of them took root in our country. Thirdly, the Spaniards were also used as agent material. Fourth, so that they do not speak there, but Spain does not send regular troops to the Eastern Front, and maintain relative neutrality.
                  Fifth, so that they don’t talk about quantity, but our officers gained some experience in fighting against the Germans during their Civil War. Sixthly, we tested there many samples of military equipment and their transportation over long distances.
                  So if everything is considered in a complex, then for us the war on foreign territory was expensive, but in the end, Stalin calculated everything correctly and we got some military experience, which is huge in military affairs.
                3. Fraracol_2
                  Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 46 New
                  -2
                  "..but in the end, Stalin calculated everything correctly and we got some combat experience, which is huge in military affairs." - many Spanish heroes survived to the domestic?
                4. ccsr
                  ccsr 6 December 2019 19: 00 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Fraancol_2
                  many Spanish heroes survived to the domestic?

                  Do you even imagine the total number of our volunteers there? According to various estimates, the figure ranges from 2 to 3 thousand volunteers. It is hard for me to say how many of them lived before the war; there is no such data at hand. But judging by the posts in the Red Army at the beginning of the war, they had a great career rise like Pavlov or Proskurov, for example.
                5. cradle
                  cradle 31 January 2020 06: 55 New
                  0
                  enough
              2. tlauicol
                tlauicol 6 December 2019 19: 11 New
                0
                seventh: imagine that we won the war in Spain ...
  • saigon
    saigon 5 December 2019 15: 15 New
    +7
    Rather, we have a moral scrapping of the command and leadership of Finland.
    The line of pillboxes and bunkers at the first stage stopped the Red Army, only after conducting engineering reconnaissance howitzers of the required caliber were pulled up and the line was simply brought into a non-operational state. The pillboxes with the flank fire casemates lasted somewhat longer than the usual pillboxes, the infantry cover of the firing points was knocked out of the trenches by fire, and after that either direct howitzers or a couple of tons of explosives on the roof of the pillbox.
    The line of defense was broken, the tactics of “motty” somehow didn’t work much and everything how to fight is not clear the result of surrender.
  • grave
    grave 5 December 2019 12: 51 New
    0
    They defended further, fortified areas and deeper in the rear it was configured
  • grave
    grave 5 December 2019 12: 48 New
    +11
    28 thousand of the battle-worthy troops, their losses were such that they began to take 17 years old by March 40, brought directly in civilian clothes. There were no people!
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 6 December 2019 13: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Kapa
      28 thousand of the battle-worthy troops, their losses were such that they began to take 17 years old by March 40, brought directly in civilian clothes. There were no people!

      And to 41 people appeared?
      1. grave
        grave 6 December 2019 17: 59 New
        -1
        Yes-early maturing
  • user
    user 5 December 2019 20: 05 New
    +7
    that means the losses were significantly higher than claimed.


    Here you have to look wider, i.e. not only to Finland. Although she herself was prepared coolly, if anyone is interested in what Google says is in your hands and look for information about the number of built airdromes, pillboxes of millionaires on an agreement with England and France with Finland, on the formation of an expeditionary force to help Finland.
    But besides the fact that in response to a question about the territories of the USSR, he did not attack Finland in any way before the incident with shelling from the Finnish side. The most important thing was lost - time. Suddenly, the winter turned out to be very cold, the Baltic Sea was frozen, which did not allow the expeditionary force to land to help Mannerheim. The forces of the Red Army were stronger than intelligence had predicted. The Soviet Union ended the war before England and France carried out an invasion from Syria and Baku was not attacked. At the same time, hostilities began in Norway and as a result of not all of these seemingly different and unrelated events, Europe did not care about this war.
    And most importantly, no other army in the world conducted offensive operations in such climatic conditions against such a fortified defense.
    1. Alf
      Alf 5 December 2019 20: 25 New
      +11
      Quote: user
      And most importantly, no other army in the world conducted offensive operations in such climatic conditions against such a fortified defense.

      Golden words, it is a pity that many do not understand them.hi
      1. Fraracol_2
        Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 50 New
        -4
        Did you have to?
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 6 December 2019 13: 55 New
      0
      Quote: user
      that means the losses were significantly higher than claimed.


      Here you have to look wider, i.e. not only to Finland. Although she herself was prepared coolly, if anyone is interested in what Google says is in your hands and look for information about the number of built airdromes, pillboxes of millionaires on an agreement with England and France with Finland, on the formation of an expeditionary force to help Finland.
      But besides the fact that in response to a question about the territories of the USSR, he did not attack Finland in any way before the incident with shelling from the Finnish side. The most important thing was lost - time. Suddenly, the winter turned out to be very cold, the Baltic Sea was frozen, which did not allow the expeditionary force to land to help Mannerheim. The forces of the Red Army were stronger than intelligence had predicted. The Soviet Union ended the war before England and France carried out an invasion from Syria and Baku was not attacked. At the same time, hostilities began in Norway and as a result of not all of these seemingly different and unrelated events, Europe did not care about this war.
      And most importantly, no other army in the world conducted offensive operations in such climatic conditions against such a fortified defense.

      Well, in fact, Mannerheim himself considered this line rather mediocre
    3. Fraracol_2
      Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 49 New
      -1
      And who shot at whom?
  • Revolver
    Revolver 5 December 2019 20: 10 New
    +3
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    casualties according to their statistics TOTAL 10% of the official strength of the Finnish army at the beginning of the Winter War. With such generally not very significant losses, they requested peace

    It’s good to fight behind the concrete walls of the bunkers, and the losses will be small. And as the Red Army broke through the Mannerheim Line, the Finns realized that they would have to fight further in a clean field in hastily dug trenches, with the overwhelming advantage of the USSR in armored vehicles and aircraft, and the losses shine clearly not 10%, but much more.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 04: 01 New
      0
      Behind the Line there were still fortifications.
      Quote: Nagan
      losses shine clearly not 10%

      Losses killed and so exceeded 10%, most likely at times.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 6 December 2019 13: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    The strange thing is, no one considers the Finns to be cowards, however, according to THEIR statistics, only 10% of the official strength of the Finnish army at the start of the Winter War are killed. With such generally not very significant losses, they requested peace, and if cowardice is excluded, then the losses were significantly higher than stated.

    With the breakthrough of the Mannerheim line, the troops entered the operational space and there was nothing to catch
  • Plantagenet
    Plantagenet 5 December 2019 07: 27 New
    -11
    Arithmetic of the ratio of personnel losses
    in this war it turned out to be terrible: even if we assume that the irreversible losses of the Red Army amounted to 130 thousand people, then for every killed Finnish soldier and officer there are five killed and frozen our compatriots.

    So every day of the war cost
    a country of 1200 people killed, 6 downed planes and
    23 wrecked and burned tanks.
    What is the reason for the huge and unjustified losses?

    Commanders of 32 of 52 divisions two years before the Soviet
    the Finnish wari commanded the battalions,
    only five of them commanded more than
    of the year. What did that mean? The fact that they are in the majority
    they could not organize the battle of their formations,
    especially in difficult climatic conditions.
    Climbing the corporate ladder a few
    steps yesterday, company and battalion commanders
    just could not replenish in such a short time
    their military knowledge and continued to lead the division
    and the hull as well as the company.

    As a result of this, numerous forehead attacks
    to fortified enemy positions on Karelian
    Isthmus, in Karelia and the Arctic.

    P. Apothecary "Soviet-Finnish War"
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 08: 04 New
      +10
      Well, of course, if it was the Pharmacist himself, then of course yes! So it turns out that the Finns at a 10 percent loss of all merged. The pharmacist will not lie.
      1. Plantagenet
        Plantagenet 5 December 2019 08: 23 New
        -6
        Do you think that the Apothecary lied about the commanders of the 52nd and 32nd divisions, and they had very extensive experience in commanding large formations? Please provide a link to this information, if not difficult.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 08: 34 New
          +6
          These two comrades actually abandoned the command, for which they paid.
          Quote: Plantagenet
          numerous forehead attacks
          to fortified enemy positions on Karelian
          Isthmus, in Karelia and the Arctic.

          Wow, did the Finns have fortifications in the Arctic? Well, yes, since the Pharmacist wrote like that, the way it is.
      2. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 5 December 2019 08: 29 New
        +14
        Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
        Well, of course, if it was the Pharmacist himself, then of course yes! So it turns out that the Finns at a 10 percent loss of all merged. The pharmacist will not lie.
        Now, I’m also wondering, how is it that with such a small loss of the Wehrmacht in relation to the Red Army by 1945 in Germany there were no male population of draft age? Berlin was defended by children and the elderly from the Hitler Youth and Volkssturm. And where forgive me the whole color of the Wehrmacht, which for 1941 was just a cool little star gone?
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 6 December 2019 19: 15 New
          -1
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          And where forgive me the whole color of the Wehrmacht, which for 1941 was just a cool little star gone?

          Well, in Norway, 200 people were sitting, for example. Do you think that all the troops should have defended Berlin?
          By the way, the color of the Wehrmacht is about 3,5 million people who were deployed at the beginning of the war on the border with the USSR
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 5 December 2019 08: 24 New
      +14
      Well, rotten Pharmaceutical data should not be given here. They have a place in the "Spark" of the time of the chief editor Korotich.
      1. Plantagenet
        Plantagenet 5 December 2019 08: 29 New
        -7
        Do you think that the losses were much smaller, and the figure of 130 thousand is very much overstated? Please provide a link to your data. (unlike you, the Pharmacist brings documents to his data)
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 5 December 2019 08: 38 New
          +5
          "Russia and the USSR in the wars of the twentieth century. Losses of the armed forces" edited by G.F. Krivosheeva, M., 2001. p. 200 - the number of irretrievable losses 84994.
        2. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 08: 45 New
          +1
          Hello, we are talking about Finnish losses! Wipe your eyes!
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 5 December 2019 19: 25 New
            +1
            About the eyes, note
      2. Plantagenet
        Plantagenet 5 December 2019 08: 30 New
        -8
        "They have a place in the" Spark "of the time of the editor-in-chief Korotich." Do you think that you violated the rules of this site ?.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 5 December 2019 20: 52 New
          +1
          The comments are hot. laughing
          Amused about the victims of pedagogy, liberals and specialists
          We open the OFFICIAL source from SPECIALISTS
          http://lib.ru/MEMUARY/1939-1945/KRIWOSHEEW/poteri.txt#w04.htm-008
          Table 110

          And the conclusion of a team of specialists
          Information about the losses, calculated according to the personal list, is given in the book along with those data that were obtained on the basis of counting and analysis of reports from the troops and the general final report of the General Staff, drawn up at the end of March 1940, that is, immediately after the end of hostilities . However, as the total number of irretrievable human losses of the USSR in the Soviet-Finnish war, we took the number of all those who died, missing and died from wounds and diseases, which are recorded in the name lists, i.e. 126 875 people This figure, in our opinion, more fully reflects the country's demographic irretrievable losses in the war with Finland.
    3. evgic
      evgic 5 December 2019 11: 26 New
      +3
      Again you are a pharmacist littering comments. Read something else, this prehistoric nonsense basically writes
    4. fighter angel
      fighter angel 5 December 2019 12: 39 New
      +4
      Plantagenet
      Yesterday I wrote to one "victim of the pedivics" here that the Red Army did not have 130. thousand losses.
      It was according to different experts: from 55 to 88.000 people.
      Keyword SPECIALISTS!
      Alas, neither "Vicus" nor a pharmacist can be attributed to this category.
    5. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 15: 32 New
      +2
      Of the army commanders and army chiefs of staff, 44% were former tsarist officers from ensign to colonel ...
    6. Revolver
      Revolver 5 December 2019 20: 15 New
      +5
      Of course, here on the website, the attitude to Viktor Suvorov (Rezun) is not the most favorable, however, in one of the books he noted that, having broken through the Mannerheim Line, and even in winter, the Red Army accomplished what Western military theorists considered in principle impossible.
      1. Sergey Zhikharev
        Sergey Zhikharev 6 December 2019 19: 21 New
        +2
        Here Viktor Suvorov, as always, a little distorted facts.
        According to Suvorov, defense does not break through. If the army defended, then do not break through all the defenses. The Germans did not break through the defense anywhere (long-term), but simply circumvented it. Where the Soviet defense was breached, the USSR was about to advance, but the Germans warned each time (on June 22, both near Vyazma and the Crimea, and Kharkov). Then, as in the WWI, defense does not break through: the Germans simply could not stand the blockade.
        So, the defense erupts and it became clear in WWI. Tanks (with the support of artillery and infantry) are able to break through the defenses and turn tactical success into strategic success.
        So the Red Army accomplished what, in principle, was already known.
        If the Defense were not considered to be penetrable, then all countries would try to build not only different Defense Lines, but would also develop landing aircraft - as an alternative to tanks: if the defense cannot be broken through, it can be flown over. However, it was the tanks that developed the world, and not the landing divisions.
    7. user
      user 5 December 2019 20: 20 New
      +2
      As a result of this, numerous forehead attacks
      to fortified enemy positions on Karelian
      the isthmus


      On the Karelian Isthmus, the Mannerheim Line was built based on the terrain with a focus on millionaire pillboxes, i.e. for the actions of technology, artificial defiles were created with anti-tank obstacles and minefields covered by artillery and rifle fire, which were shot by artillery from the flanks and the front. So, there was no special maneuver by technology, as on the Kursk Bulge, for this reason. As for the command staff, according to the results of this war, someone was nominated, someone was pushed, i.e. screening has begun.
    8. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 6 December 2019 14: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Plantagenet
      Arithmetic of the ratio of personnel losses
      it turned out to be terrible in this war: even if we assume that the irretrievable losses of the Red Army totaled 130 tons, then for every killed Finnish soldier and officer there are five killed and frozen our compatriots
      P. Apothecary "Soviet-Finnish War"

      According to all the canons of war, the attacking side must have at least threefold superiority, while the losses of attackers, especially in difficult terrain, exceed the losses of the defenders. This is true for properly organized defense.
  • Ham
    Ham 5 December 2019 07: 47 New
    -2
    Well, how ... "all the world" ... not just simpletons forced to fight with the Russians to this tune
    1. igordok
      igordok 5 December 2019 09: 41 New
      -1
      Quote: Ham
      "all worlds"

      New on this topic, on YouTube.
      1. Living7111972
        Living7111972 5 December 2019 11: 26 New
        +2
        An old one, even Margelov wrote how he jammed the Swedish military in the Finnish rear
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 5 December 2019 08: 06 New
    -17

    In anticipation of and with the outbreak of World War II, the Soviet government could no longer drag out a solution to the defense problem of Leningrad, the country's second most important vital center,

    So, with enormous blood and loss of image, I had to solve a real problem, laid down only by the stroke of the pen of a meaningless inadequacy, which signed a recognition of independence.

    Interestingly, if Helsinki accepted Moscow’s proposals, then Finland and all the people would benefit from this.

    No need to make idiots out of them. From the report Pres. SNK Molotov on similar proposals:
    The special nature of these pacts of mutual assistance is by no means does not mean any interference Soviet Union in the affairs of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, as some agencies of the foreign press are trying to portray. On the contrary, all these mutual assistance pacts are firmly stipulate the inviolability of the sovereignty of the signatory states and the principle of non-interference in the affairs of another state

    And where, in the end, were Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania?
    Stalin just did not offer the Finns. All in vain!

    The USSR did not trust and were afraid of him, alas ...
    That is London was ready to the war with Russia.
    lol laughing
    But who would allow him in parliament? He did not want to fight Hitler, and only with the USSR ...
    Help the Finns, but no more. Where does the power come from? And the help turned out to be small: 80% armored forces of Finland and its artillery were ... captured Soviet tanks
    As a result, a provocation occurs, and the Red Army begins admonish obstinate and aggressive Finns.

    Something painfully familiar: someone also started the war, "preventing the onset of aggression" .....
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 5 December 2019 08: 29 New
      +9
      Quote: Olgovich
      The USSR did not trust and were afraid of him, alas ...

      But they trusted Great Britain and Germany.
      What really turned this trust into?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 5 December 2019 10: 52 New
        -13
        Quote: Flood
        But they trusted Germany.
        What really turned this trust into?

        The disaster of the summer of 1941
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 5 December 2019 11: 07 New
          +8
          Quote: Olgovich
          The disaster of the summer of 1941

          Why write frank nonsense?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 5 December 2019 11: 22 New
            -13
            Quote: Flood
            Why write frank nonsense?

            was she not there
        2. evgic
          evgic 5 December 2019 11: 32 New
          +5
          Not 1941, but in 1940, 1939, 1938. Germany was not trusted in the USSR since 1933, and everyone was offered to be friends against it. If you think that the nonsense written 100 times becomes true, then this is true only in the absence of truly truthful information. So don’t work in vain
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 5 December 2019 11: 57 New
            -16
            Quote: evgic
            Not 1941 but in 1940, 1939, 1938

            What is not? What are you carrying? Question at least look and what-the answer .......
            Quote: evgic
            and everyone was invited to be friends against her.

            Therefore, they concluded Friendship Agreement with the Nazis. Who else was this, do not remind?
            And yes:
            Quote: evgic
            If you think that the nonsense written 100 times becomes true, then this is true only in the absence of truly truthful information. So don’t work in vain
            1. Alexander Suvorov
              Alexander Suvorov 5 December 2019 12: 40 New
              +13
              Olgovich (Andrey)
              Therefore, they concluded a "Friendship Treaty" with the Nazis. Who else was this, do not remind?
              Let me remind you! In almost all of Europe, the USSR was the last to conclude such a pact of all. And by the way, he did the right thing, if we hadn’t done this, we would have had a war on two fronts, also with Japan.
              However, to whom I explain it fool , before whom is the beads to the sword ... negative ?!
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 5 December 2019 12: 48 New
                -13
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Let me remind you! In almost all of Europe, the USSR was the last to conclude such a pact of all.

                Introduce them FRIENDSHIP Treaty, Macedonian lol .
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                And by the way, he did the right thing, if we hadn’t done this, we would have had a war on two fronts, also with Japan.

                right: the border had to be pushed back.

                What are the "two fronts"? Hitler attacked only when he was fully prepared and resolved the remaining questions: not a minute earlier.
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                However, to whom I explain this, to whom here beads to the sword ...

                Before soboth naturally. Or how? belay lol
            2. evgic
              evgic 5 December 2019 13: 22 New
              +12
              It is you who are carrying the Goebels' blizzard, and for a long time and persistently. And what is wrong with the contract of September 28.09.39, XNUMX. England and France refused to enter into an alliance with the USSR, well, they don’t want and don’t. Moreover, these “allies” want to land the Pechenga and bomb Baku, invade and cut the USSR from the south and the north (donkeys). Should we rush to fight Adolf in this situation? And where is the guarantee that the "allies" will not immediately make peace with him, at least. Yes, they concluded an agreement with Germany and said: forward to Paris and London. What Adik did, and now ending the war with him became impossible for the Western "allies." And so that the paddling pools give up like toads, here we have nothing to do with sorry. You would have fought as expected, you look after a year would have helped them with what they could. So turn on the brain and stop the blizzard
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 5 December 2019 14: 00 New
                -13
                Quote: evgic
                It is you who are carrying the Goebels' blizzard, and for a long time and persistently.

                on the thief and hat ...
                Quote: evgic
                And what is wrong with the contract of September 28.09.39, XNUMX.

                ABOUT FRIENDSHIP. Didn’t get it?
                Quote: evgic
                Moreover, these “allies” want to land the Pechenga and bomb Baku, invade and cut the USSR from the south and the north (donkeys).

                Don’t carry the BAD: Allies could calmly declare war on the USSR 17 September 1939, when he entered Poland. Even OBLIGED to do this, under an agreement with Poland.
                BUT, they did not do this, but, on the contrary, ADOPTED the position of the USSR!

                And the Finns only helped, because they were attacked.
                Quote: evgic
                And so that the paddling pools give up like toads, here we have nothing to do with sorry. You would have fought as expected, you look after a year would have helped them with what they could.

                Learn from the PMV-road spoon for dinner.
                Russia agreed and saved France for itself ..
                USSR, no.

                So
                Quote: evgic
                turn on the brain and stop the blizzard
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                  1. The comment was deleted.
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                2. Sergey Zhikharev
                  Sergey Zhikharev 6 December 2019 19: 33 New
                  0
                  Learn from the PMV-road spoon for dinner.
                  Russia agreed and saved France for itself ..
                  USSR no
                  .
                  It is precisely this that France has not learned the lessons of history.
                  The situation of 1812. Europe unites and goes against Russia. Russia is a winner.
                  The situation of 1870-1871, France against Germany (Prussia). Prussia is the winner.
                  The situation of 1914. France and Russia against Germany. The defeat of the Russian armies in East Prussia and the Miracle on the Marne.
                  The situation of 1939. Two scenarios:
                  1 France + USSR vs Germany
                  2 France v. Germany.
                  The French, remembering the experience of the WWII, naturally choose the option of fighting alone.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 7 December 2019 07: 14 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Sergey Zhikharev
                    French remembering PMV experiencenaturally choose the option of fighting alone.


                    Let me remind you that the experience of WWI (together with Russia) is Victory.
                    Those. they chose ... defeat ?! belay lol
                    1. Sergey Zhikharev
                      Sergey Zhikharev 7 December 2019 18: 31 New
                      0
                      It was necessary to put an ellipsis
                      "between option" and "fight alone"
    2. strannik1985
      strannik1985 5 December 2019 11: 01 New
      +9
      So, huge blood and loss of image

      The Brest peace, a consequence of the February Revolution, the Provisional Government did not control the situation on the territory of the VKF, the Bolsheviks even less had the strength to do so.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 5 December 2019 11: 27 New
        -16
        Quote: strannik1985
        Brest peace is a consequence of the February revolution

        belay lol laughing
        Quote: strannik1985
        Interim government ne controlled the situation on the territory of the All-Russian Federation

        to the textbook
        Quote: strannik1985
        the Bolsheviks, all the more, had no strength for this.

        " Can not -, do not torture! "(C) - there is such a folk wisdom.

        Before and without them, it’s wonderful coped and with the Finns, and with Poland and other Estland-Courland.

        With themendless WAR with them and with ALL. "Match", yes .....
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 12: 09 New
          +9
          The problem of Olgych is that he thinks that only he knows how to use search engines.
          Quote: Olgovich
          With them, endless WARs with them and with ALL

          About the Crimean War, the suppression of boxers, the Japanese War, with its enchanting enthusiasm, about the Stolypin war with his own people, he himself "does not know."
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 5 December 2019 12: 52 New
            +9
            Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
            Olga’s problem is what does he thinkthat only he knows how to use search engines.
            Vladimir hi ! The problem of olgovich is that he thinks not in the place that normal people call their head, he has more and more lower hemispheres working ... laughing
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 12: 55 New
              +4
              But, but I’ll ask without insults, otherwise he will even find the Imperial heavy unicorns!
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 5 December 2019 14: 04 New
            -13
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            The problem of Olgych is that he thinks that only he knows how to use search engines.
            Quote: Olgovich
            With them, endless WARs with them and with ALL

            About the Crimean War, the suppression of boxers, the Japanese War, with its enchanting enthusiasm, about the Stolypin war with his own people, he himself "does not know."

            You forgot another battle on the Kalka lol And the assault on Ryazan. yes etc.

            And all this, apparently, during 3 years (like the blessed SNK) - they fought with EVERYTHING.
          3. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 6 December 2019 20: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            about the Stolypin war with his own people, he himself "did not know"

            But what, did Stolypin fight with his people? Yes, under the tsar the conditions for the political were many times better than under the Bolsheviks
    3. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 6 December 2019 12: 47 New
      +3
      Most likely, the "bomb" was laid by Alexander the 1st. When he annexed the Vyborg province to the Grand Duchy. Sprengporten warned him of this. The king did not listen. hi
    4. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 6 December 2019 15: 36 New
      -2
      Quote: Olgovich
      meaningless inadequacy

      You have described yourself very well. laughing

      Quote: Olgovich
      And where, in the end, were Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania?

      Where they wanted, that is, with us. Or do you think that they should join Hitler? And by the way, what is bad for a Russian patriot? The Baltic has returned to its home harbor. laughing And here you howl just like not a patriot, but the most scorched liberal globalist agent of the State Department. laughing
      Quote: Olgovich
      The USSR did not trust and were afraid of him, alas ...

      And RI were not afraid and trusted? Aahahahahaha, the monarchists have some kind of frankly selective vision.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Something painfully familiar: someone also started the war, "preventing the onset of aggression" .....

      Native and beloved RI? laughing
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 08: 12 New
    +13
    Something Olga came out without a twinkle, without the howls of the anti-Soviet and the lamentations of the Russophobian.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 5 December 2019 08: 26 New
      +9
      Not yet fully awake.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Gorbunov Artem
    Gorbunov Artem 5 December 2019 08: 37 New
    +2
    To the great regret, the war with the Finns revealed pardons in the command and control unit. For example: Fuel for tanks was catastrophically lacking. Air traffic was poorly prepared (often the dumped supplies were delivered to the enemy). On the other hand, this war allowed us to draw conclusions and take measures to eliminate them. Unfortunately, the price of victory was very high.
    1. igordok
      igordok 5 December 2019 09: 47 New
      +3
      Universal military duty appeared only in 1939. A trained soldier - a cat cried. But by the Second World War, most of the correct conclusions were made.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 5 December 2019 08: 39 New
    -1
    The article is a plus, although in my opinion there are significant inaccuracies in it.
    Finnish intelligence did not rely on any dissidents, for the reason that in the USSR there were none at that time, and could not be as such. By the way, it was our Finnish intelligence that worked very badly, which misled the Soviet leadership.
    The main reason for the impudent actions of the Finnish side is explained by the fact that they counted on the help of Great Britain, which firmly promised such assistance, but in turn the British unofficially assured the USSR that they would not intervene in the Soviet-Finnish conflict.
    The provocation mentioned in passing in the article, with which the hostilities began, was arranged by our side, this is well known - it was necessary to find some excuse.
    The very course of the hostilities showed, on our part, a low level of command personnel, both junior and senior, hence such great losses.
    1. Andy
      Andy 5 December 2019 09: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: bober1982
      The provocation mentioned in passing in the article, with which the hostilities began, was arranged by our side, this is well known - it was necessary to find some excuse.

      I saw enough in the 2000s how Finns drag boxes with alcoves onto carts into the port. taller than its height, arba.s drunk and burned. Well, frostbitten on the head for natsidey enough everywhere. here is a nationalist, yuri Böhm from Estonian kiteselite in camouflage, who sings “kill Russians” - is he counting on victory in the war? no, just a brain shoot and that's enough, but to calculate the consequences, alas, no
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 09: 47 New
      +7
      A funny thing, there’s no time to look, but I read that a few days before the Maynil incident the Finnish artillery inspector rummaged around. Artillery, which was not there at all! So not everything is clear, as you think.
      1. Fraracol_2
        Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 17: 06 New
        0
        Did he shoot himself, or did he only bring shells? As I look all the same, you can easily justify almost any crime?
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 17: 23 New
          -1
          The inspector usually inspects how it is possible to inspect what is not? According to the Finns, there was no artillery in the vicinity of Mainila, and the inspector was for some reason. But, it is now impossible to verify it, indirect evidence, so to speak. But there was enough other shelling of Soviet territory and citizens without Mineila, which is easily sought. So there were crimes, yes.
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 6 December 2019 20: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Finnish artillery inspector rummaged at the border

        Why did he need it? To instigate a war?
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 5 December 2019 11: 01 New
      -15
      Quote: bober1982
      The main reason arrogant Finnish action

      What is the "impudence"?
      What did not want to give their territory? request
      Quote: bober1982
      The provocation mentioned in passing in the article, with which the hostilities began, was arranged by our side, this is well known - it was necessary to find some excuse.

      And everything is clumsy: for a couple of those killed, supposedly Finns of the Red Army, they went on the offensive and laid down more than ... one hundred thousand ... their belay
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 5 December 2019 11: 08 New
        +11
        Quote: Olgovich
        What is the "impudence"?

        But, after all, one must understand with whom they communicate, and how everything can end, which ultimately happened.
        Quote: Olgovich
        What did not want to give their territory?

        Following the results of this war, the USSR returned its territories, that is, returned to the borders - before Finland entered Imperial Russia.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 5 December 2019 11: 33 New
          -15
          Quote: bober1982
          But, you have to understand with whom communicate and how it can end, which ultimately happened.

          That is, they contacted / stuck- "give your land, give the earth!"?
          Quote: bober1982
          Following the results of this war, the USSR returned its territories, that is, returned to the borders - before Finland entered Imperial Russia

          How can I get back and become ... less (before the entry was less)?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 5 December 2019 11: 39 New
            +6
            Quote: Olgovich
            before entering was less)?

            Yes, so to speak, from the royal shoulder, after entering, it increased its territory.
            Quote: Olgovich
            That is, they contacted / stuck- "give your land, give the earth!"?

            The Finns behaved defiantly impudently, the state was hostile, from the border to Leningrad it was thirty kilometers, Murmansk was not protected - this problem had to be solved and it was solved, how was another matter.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 5 December 2019 12: 02 New
              -16
              Quote: bober1982
              Finns were defiantly impudent

              Alas, you answered her like that: what was the INGESTION manifested in?
              Quote: bober1982
              the state was hostile, from the border to Leningrad it was thirty kilometers,

              Yes, for the Finns- USSR-
              Quote: bober1982
              the state was hostile
              and
              Quote: bober1982
              from the border to Leningrad was thirty kilometers

              Or not?
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 5 December 2019 12: 15 New
                +4
                Quote: Olgovich
                You answered her like that: what was the LOAD?

                They tried to negotiate with them on good terms, on mutually beneficial conditions, because they managed to negotiate with the Balts, who by the way even provided their airfields for raids on Finnish territory. The Finns were incited to us, organized small provocations, considered themselves protected by their patrons (who were incited), but as it turned out, no one wanted to fight for them, except for foreign volunteers.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 December 2019 12: 55 New
                  -13
                  Quote: bober1982
                  They tried to come to an agreement with them on good terms, on mutually beneficial terms,

                  I do not want! Is that not the reason? If with you so "agree"?
                  Quote: bober1982
                  were able After all, agree with the Balts, which by the way even provided their airfields for raids on Finnish territory.

                  They are still crying ... lol
                  Quote: bober1982
                  The Finns were incited to us, organized small provocations, considered themselves protected by their patrons (who were incited), but as it turned out, no one wanted to fight for them, except for foreign volunteers.

                  Well, "they set us up, they set us up so that tank wedges from the time of the WWI already ... 32 pieces (the USSR has almost a hundred times more there) and the" army "37 thousand (beginning 39g). lol
                2. Fraracol_2
                  Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 17: 14 New
                  -3
                  “They tried to come to an agreement with them on good terms, on mutually beneficial terms ...” - and who has prepared for them Kuusinen and his gang? Some babble of babble.
        2. Fraracol_2
          Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 17: 09 New
          -3
          By analogy with your “logic”, if you dared to put up resistance in the gateway of a thug-gopnik, is that arrogance ?!
      2. fighter angel
        fighter angel 5 December 2019 12: 46 New
        +6
        Olgovich.
        "... And everything is clumsy: for a couple of those killed, supposedly by the Finns of the Red Army, they went on the offensive and put in more than ... one hundred thousand ... of their own ..."

        But the bloody Nikolashka, as if as many as two squadrons in the Strait of Tsushima, was thrown to the bottom ???
        Also went on the offensive?
        And why did Rennekampf not go to the aid of Samsonov, and he put his whole army in the boiler ???
        More than clumsy!
    4. Fraracol_2
      Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 17: 03 New
      -3
      And what were the "impudent actions of the Finnish side"?
  • rocket757
    rocket757 5 December 2019 08: 43 New
    +3
    Hitler's definition of the USSR as a “colossus with feet of clay” was then dominant in the West.

    Everyone can make mistakes that can lead to disaster .... stubborn, not very smart, can be repeated as long as he can!
  • Mestny
    Mestny 5 December 2019 09: 27 New
    -5
    It reads:
    As a result, a provocation occurs, and the Red Army begins to admonish obstinate and aggressive Finns. The initial stage was difficult: Finland was ready for war, but the USSR was not.

    That is, the USSR was not ready for war, but nevertheless began it.
    Why did you start if you weren’t ready? Why not prepare if war was needed?
    Well, the results of this war, to put it mildly, differed from the plans. As a result, the territory was to be divided into two parts, complete seizure, change of power, and the transformation of the former Finland into another republic of soviets.
    As a result, a huge amount of losses and an insignificant result.
    Yes, the USSR was not ready for war, but nevertheless began it, having ambitious plans. Don't just push the border.
    And the second.
    If the USSR was not ready for war - where did the Red Army come from in such numbers on the Finnish border? Where did the plans to capture Finland come from? Isn't that just preparation?
    Another thing is that the preparation was completely mediocre.
    Well, since the preparations were still underway - did the Finns know that the Red Army was concentrated at their borders? I am sure they knew perfectly. And they were getting ready.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 5 December 2019 09: 51 New
      +4
      Quote: Mestny
      Another thing is that the preparation was completely mediocre

      It was believed that after the first shots from our side, the Finns would begin to raise their hands, literally.
      A characteristic episode with the 44th Shchors Infantry Division - they were surrounded, having a multiple advantage in equipment and personnel, they abandoned everything (dozens of tanks, hundreds of machine guns, thousands of rifles), frostbite, prisoners. Subsequently, before the formation, our commander, commissar and chief of staff were also shot.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 5 December 2019 11: 08 New
        -15
        Quote: bober1982
        It was believed that after the first shots from our side, the Finns would begin to raise their hands, literally.

        Well then: after all, “the proletarians and the Kestians” are coming!

        After all, in June 41, many more hoped for "proletarian Integralism"!

        These tyrnationalists showed it ....
        1. fighter angel
          fighter angel 5 December 2019 12: 52 New
          +6
          Olgovich.
          Yes, owe you something!
          "... Well, how can it be: after all, the" proletarians and Kgestians "are coming!

          After all, in June 41, many more hoped for "proletarian Integralism"!

          These tyrnationalists showed it .... "

          Brusilov’s troops were also not met with bread and salt in 1916 in Galicia.
          And in Manchuria 1904-1905, the "red carpet" was not stolen by the Russians.
          However, the "bloody-bearded" climbed no matter what ...
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 6 December 2019 11: 14 New
            -1
            Quote: fighter angel
            Brusilov’s troops were also not met with bread and salt in 1916 in Galicia.

            What are you about? belay
            The Russian army is a class army of tyrnationalists?

            If it doesn’t come, I repeat: the Bolshevik motto "proletarians of all countries, unite! "FULLY failed: in 1920, and in 1939 and in 1941.

            Proletarian and peasant animals from Germany staged such a wild genocide in the state of workers and peasants in the Second World War, which the world had not seen.

            Substation Galicia with joy met the Russian army in 1914
            1. fighter angel
              fighter angel 6 December 2019 12: 57 New
              -1
              Olgovich.
              I would not like to "study" your "alternative history" here.
              This is me about this is yours:
              "... Galicia joyfully met the Russian army in 1914 ..."

              And in your "alternative story" for some reason everyone is "greeted with great joy!"
              Example: in your opinion, also with joy, it was hospitable, they met gallows and butchers - Shkuro, Annenkov, Sultan-Girey-Klych and many others ...

              About this one:
              "... The Russian army is a class army of tyrnationalists? ..."

              And you better remember, "brother-Bulgarians"!
              We freed them from the Turks in 1878.
              Slogans hung in all corners, propaganda was going on in all the newspapers!
              "Let's give the brothers freedom from the Turkish yoke!"
              "Slavs are forever brothers!"
              Slogans, pathos, emotional upsurge and everything is the same as in the USSR and the Red Army.
              "Brothers" our RIA and met, and thanked, and kissed the boots!
              And after 20-30 years, in the PMV-rrraz, they suddenly became ENEMIES!
              Jumped to the Germans with the Austrians.
              So, you do not persecute Soviet internationalism here, he was also under the kings, and our "anointed of God", on it "burned" no less!
              And how many lives of Russian soldiers were ruined at the same time ... How terrible!
              Even Vereshchagin painted a picture: "The Apotheosis of War" is called.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 6 December 2019 13: 16 New
                -3
                Quote: fighter angel
                Olgovich.
                Wouldn’t like to "study here"your "alternative story."
                This is me about this is yours:
                "... Galicia joyfully met the Russian army in 1914 ..."

                Mine is not necessary, but school course history of Russia, you need.
                Quote: fighter angel
                And in your "alternative story" for some reason everyone is "greeted with great joy!"
                Example: In your, also with joy, hospitable, they met gallows and butchers - Shkuro, Annenkov, Sultan-Girey-Klych and many others ...

                Where is it? lol And they met different, in different ways.
                Quote: fighter angel
                And you better remember, "brother-Bulgarians"!
                We freed them from the Turks in 1878.
                Slogans hung in all corners, propaganda was going on in all the newspapers!
                "Let's give the brothers freedom from the Turkish yoke!"
                "Slavs are forever brothers!"
                Slogans, pathos, emotional upsurge and everything is the same as in the USSR and the Red Army.
                "Brothers" our RIA and met, and thanked, and kissed the boots!
                And after 20-30 years, in the PMV-rrraz, they suddenly became ENEMIES!
                Jumped to the Germans with the Austrians.
                So, you do not persecute Soviet internationalism here, he was also under the kings, and our "anointed of God", on it "burned" no less!
                And how many lives of Russian soldiers were ruined at the same time ... How terrible!
                Even Vereshchagin painted a picture: "The Apotheosis of War" is called.

                THIRD TIME I remind you that you are unable to refute:
                Bolshevik motto "Workers of all countries, unite!" FULLY failed : both in 1920, and in 1939 and in 1941.

                Proletarian and peasant animals from Germany staged such wild genocideq in a state of workers and peasants in the Second World War, which the world has not seen.

                moreover, he turned out to be extremely harmful, dampening the fighters and humanizing the enemy.
                1. fighter angel
                  fighter angel 6 December 2019 13: 54 New
                  +1
                  Olgovich
                  Galicia so "well" met the Russian troops that already in 1916-1918. Separatist and nationalist movements began. And the first thing Russia was declared a "cursed invader", a strangler of freedom, etc. with all the ensuing.
                  This is for you from a school history course, if that.

                  Tell us, without THREE TIME REMINDERS, how the FULLY “FAILURE” motto can !!!

                  And thirdly: And what happened to the tsarist motto: "War to the End of Victory!" ???
                  After all, something bad happened to him in 1905, and then in 1917-1918 ....
                  Also turned out to be somehow harmful. The soldier became embittered, ruined discipline, and strengthened anti-war sentiment ...
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 6 December 2019 14: 34 New
                    -4
                    Quote: fighter angel
                    lgovic
                    Galicia so "well" met the Russian troops that already in 1916-1918. Separatist and nationalist movements began. And the first thing Russia was declared a "cursed invader", a strangler of freedom, etc. with all the ensuing.
                    This is for you from a school history course, if that.

                    The majority of the population of East Galicia was composed of Russophile Rusyns, who were killed, hanged, and sent to the Telerhof and Terezin concentration camps by the Avtrians.
                    Therefore, when our army marched in 1914, they met them with glee

                    M.M. Prishvin: "... almost there are no troops anywhere, even traveling, patrols and everywhere it was as if you are traveling in your native land, "compare with 41g-53g

                    Then hundreds of thousands of Rusyns left with Russian troops

                    Quote: fighter angel
                    Tell us, without THREE TIME REMINDERS, how the FULLY “FAILURE” motto can !!!

                    With Russian problems?
                    DEVIS - a saying usually expressing guiding idea of ​​behavior or activityand.

                    Here is an IDEA and failed.
                    Quote: fighter angel
                    And thirdly: And what happened to the tsarist motto: "War to the End of Victory!" ???
                    After all, something bad happened to him in 1905, and then in 1917-1918 ....
                    Also turned out to be somehow harmful. The soldier became embittered, ruined discipline, and strengthened anti-war sentiment ...

                    this ...... which side? belay
                    1. fighter angel
                      fighter angel 6 December 2019 14: 45 New
                      -1
                      Ah, so nevertheless the IDEA failed!
                      Well, that’s clearer already.

                      Galicia has always been the most "dirty and smelly crossroads of Europe", where almost all the South European nationalities, plus the most diverse ethnic groups, have mixed. None of them constituted, and could not, by definition! Including Rusyns.
                      Prishvin is another propagandist! I do not believe him.
                      It’s better to remember how this “pro-zayek” writer related to the fascist ideology.
                      He accepted and supported her, and he didn’t even hide it.

                      And it’s so sideways here that when you look for a mote in the eyes of the Soviet regime, you forget, don’t see, or don’t want to see that they are exactly the same, but only the logs sticking out of the eye sockets of Tsarist Russia.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 December 2019 07: 09 New
                        -1
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        Ah, so nevertheless the IDEA failed!
                        Well, that’s clearer already.

                        Once again for the tankman: DEVIS is a saying usually expressing guiding idea behavior or activity.
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        Galicia has always been the most "dirty and smelly crossroads of Europe", where almost all the South European nationalities, plus the most diverse ethnic groups, have mixed. None of them constituted, and could not, by definition! Including Rusyns.

                        To school
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        Prishvin is another propagandist! I do not believe him.

                        I have no purpose to convince you. request
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        And it’s so sideways here that when you look for a mote in the eyes of the Soviet regime, you forget, don’t see, or don’t want to see that they are exactly the same, but only the logs sticking out of the eye sockets of Tsarist Russia.

                        Let me remind you that this motto is not a speck, but Foundation stone ideologies of the so-called "Soviet power for ALL wars, conflicts and politics in general.

                        It turned out to be nonsense and failure.
                      2. fighter angel
                        fighter angel 8 December 2019 12: 07 New
                        -2
                        Olgovich
                        "... I recall that this motto is not a speck, but the cornerstone of the ideology of the so-called" Soviet power for ALL wars, conflicts and politics in general.

                        It turned out to be nonsense and failure ... "

                        What are you talking about? Oh really?
                        This motto was safely forgotten in the USSR after the war.
                        And there were no more flirting with the proletariat of other countries.
                        All the "Internationals" and the "Cominterns" remained in the 1930s.
                        There were attempts to defend their interests in different countries,
                        on different continents.
                        So there is no need to “poke” this; the Union was able to draw conclusions and work on mistakes.
                        This motto is not the "cornerstone of the entire Soviet ideology."
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 8 December 2019 12: 23 New
                        -1
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        It turned out to be nonsense and failure ... "

                        What are you talking about? Oh really?

                        exactly. See the good Nazi Germany, Austria, etc. Hungary and WHAT they did. here. so nonsense golem
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        So there is no need to “poke” this; the Union was able to draw conclusions and work on mistakes.
                        This motto is not the "cornerstone of the entire Soviet ideology."

                        and on Soviet orders-weak to see? or they were canceled after the Second World War?
                      4. fighter angel
                        fighter angel 8 December 2019 18: 32 New
                        -1
                        Olgovich.
                        "... and the Soviet orders are weak to look at? Or were they canceled after the Second World War? ..."

                        Not weak. I looked.
                        You obviously meant the Order of Friendship of Peoples?
                        Judging by the previous polemic?
                        So now you too look! On its statute ...
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 December 2019 11: 00 New
                        -1
                        Quote: fighter angel
                        Not weak. I looked.
                        You obviously meant the Order of Friendship of Peoples?
                        Judging by the previous polemic?
                        So now you too look! On its statute ...

                        Nope: orders of KZ, BKZ, ZP. TKZ
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 09: 54 New
    +2
    That’s someone who would mindfully lean against the wall, for the unsuccessful start of the Soviet-Finnish war, it’s Meretskova.
    Quote: Mestny
    That is, the USSR was not ready for war, but nevertheless began it.

    As far as I know, it was he who believed that for the “enforcement of peace” only the Leningrad Military District and the Baltic Fleet would be enough, and this convinced the country's leadership.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 5 December 2019 11: 42 New
      +1
      Meretskov is one of the weakest generals of the Red Army. And in Finnish, and beyond.
      Totally incompetent. He made mistakes after mistakes on any front and in any position. Who covered him? - probably Stalin himself.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 5 December 2019 12: 02 New
        +3
        The history of Meretskov shows well the swings and vyrviglazny Kafkianism of the Stalin era. Let me remind you that according to the results of the Winter War, he received an INCREASE and soared upwards. And on the second day of the Second World War he was arrested on the basis of testimonies of 37-38 years. That is, all this time he already had a business.
      2. Uncle Izya
        Uncle Izya 5 December 2019 19: 33 New
        -4
        Weak generals are not given a hero and a marshal
  • Octopus
    Octopus 5 December 2019 09: 58 New
    -3
    Quote: Mestny
    Yes, the USSR was not ready for war, but nevertheless began it, having ambitious plans. Don't just push the border

    This is the basic idea of ​​authors like Samsonov.

    The USSR just really wanted to change, the isthmus in exchange for Karelia. Kuusinen was not.
  • gorenina91
    gorenina91 5 December 2019 10: 52 New
    -12
    Such a Pyrrhic victory of the Red Army over Finland caused an irreparable damage to the USSR ...
    -The whole world saw that the Red Army is so weak that it can’t even cope with an agrarian, economically undeveloped country that didn’t even have the means to produce its own military aircraft, its own artillery, there was no technical base for the production of armored vehicles and its own cars ... -And here, agents, scouts, spies, etc. were not needed ... to reveal all the secrets of the Red Army ...- everything was just obvious ...
    -And the Finns just had something ... some ski battalions formed from lumberjacks, smolokuros and farmers ... armed with small arms ... -And they were armed somehow, any machine guns handicraft and Russian rifles, hastily remade by Finnish craftsmen ...- from their own weapons, the Finns managed to arrange only the release of very small batches of their Suomi machine gun (for which the release of cartridges was in huge shortage) ... -All the rest of the weapons ... -tanks, artillery pieces, machine guns, trucks, huge count a lot of ammunition ...- all this the Finns captured from the Red Army ... -the regular Red Army ...
    -If then the Red Army would roll out all these Finnish ski battalions. As the Germans rolled out the regular army of Poland .., then ... then ... then ... Hitler would have scratched his head for a long time in doubt ... -to attack the USSR or not ...- and maybe it would not even attack ... -And so the Red Army itself showed that it should not be afraid ... and you can calmly attack the USSR ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 5 December 2019 11: 02 New
      +4
      Quote: gorenina91
      Such a Pyrrhic victory of the Red Army over Finland caused an irreparable damage to the USSR.

      In my opinion, such a victory benefited the USSR, it became clear that the command and control, supply and training of the troops themselves had to be changed — conclusions were drawn. If it weren’t for the Finnish experience, the start of Hitler’s invasion would be more difficult.
      1. gorenina91
        gorenina91 5 December 2019 11: 16 New
        -13
        -Yes, there was absolutely no benefit ... -after this pyrrhic victory in the Red Army
        how it was all ...- so it all remained (as everything remained in the Red Army and after Halkin-Gol) ...- no lessons were learned so much and weren’t and everything went its course ... -And for these precious 2,5 , 1941 years (until the summer of XNUMX) in the Red Army it was possible to change everything drastically ... -but nothing was changed ... -And everything began to change only after the monstrous losses and the disaster that befell the Red Army at the very beginning of the Second World War ...
        1. chenia
          chenia 5 December 2019 11: 26 New
          +6
          Quote: gorenina91
          in the Red Army it was possible to change everything drastically


          You will not believe. but the Red Army has changed a lot. Although the changes caused severe defeats in 1941, they also led to the victory of 1945. The horror of 1941, when they constantly and correctly changing the Red Army, did not train people with these changes.
        2. bober1982
          bober1982 5 December 2019 11: 27 New
          0
          Quote: gorenina91
          And they began to change everything only after monstrous losses and the disaster that befell the Red Army at the very beginning of the Second World War ...

          This is because they immediately remembered about ...... brothers and sisters, Kutuzov and Bagration
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 12: 15 New
            +5
            Quote: bober1982

            This is because they immediately remembered about ...... brothers and sisters, Kutuzov and Bagration

            Was that enough? lol
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 5 December 2019 11: 37 New
        +3
        "If there were no Finnish experience, the beginning of Hitler's invasion would be more difficult" ////
        ----
        Here I agree with you. After the Finnish war, Stalin clearly understood that a clash with Germany would result in the defeat of the Red Army. If the Finnish national militia managed to inflict such devastating losses on the regular Red Army, then what will happen when we meet with the Wehrmacht?
        And Stalin ordered - for the first time! - go to the defensive plans of the war.
        It was only too late.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 13: 43 New
          +1
          What about the militia, you turned down, what about the devastating losses.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 5 December 2019 13: 59 New
            +3
            Finland's regular army was tiny. But they announced a total mobilization for the "domestic" war after the Soviet attack.
            It was a real militia. They had only light weapons, but excellent winter equipment.
            The Finns had 32 tanks and 114 aircraft.
            Loss ratio was: 1: 7
            Completely, 100%, without a single return, 2 Soviet personnel divisions were surrounded and destroyed.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 14: 12 New
              +7
              Tiny prewar the army of Finland, this is 256 thousand people, for a minute, this is reliance on the fortified area, and exhausting the enemy outside it, with the skillful use of knowledge of the area. The Finns brilliantly dealt with this, but 256 thousand soldiers mobilized and armed with army, albeit light, weapons, this is not a militia! The militia went into action at the end of the "Winter War", when the army was defeated, so about 10% loss by the killed bullshit!
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 5 December 2019 15: 02 New
                -1
                What are 256 thousand in a country with a population of 3.7 million? 256 - this is reg. Army + all reservists cleaned up.
                The rest is women.
                9 million Israel reg. Army 140 thousand. And this is considered a lot.
                And the Finns do not have "unknown soldiers", "missing", "mass graves".
                All the dead lists are accurate.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 15: 44 New
                  +3
                  Those. you consider reservists as a militia, wow. Even 10% of the population in the army, which is not the limit for the economy, is already 370 thousand.
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  Which 256 thousand in a country with a population of 3.7 million

                  In Russia, in the event of war, 32 years of age are subject to draft, this is at least 40 percent of the male population actually. If you are too lazy to calculate the number of people to be mobilized for the Finns, then please: about 740 thousand. The Finns did not participate in the WWI (the good-looking Niki 2 did not call them), they had a much better situation with men of 45 years old than in Europe on average. So leave the tales about 256 thousand of all the ex-men.
                  And the losses of the Finns are not missing, but not listed intentionally. The Germans who died of wounds at the hospital were not exactly considered dead, and the Finns “Europeans” are cleaner than the Germans.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 5 December 2019 19: 23 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    In Russia, in the event of war, 32 years of age are subject to draft, this is at least 40 percent of the male population actually.

                    This is complete nonsense, because even in wartime 40% of men cannot be drafted into the army, because such an outflow of the able-bodied population will cause a collapse in the economy.
                    There are norms that allowed the maximum draft in the army, and which existed at that time, but even such amounts were not provided for. It is considered military science that the maximum allowable ratio is 1:15, i.e. 15 people in the national economy should work for one drafted into the army in wartime. The maximum permissible total mobilization allows a short-term ratio of 1:10, but this is an extreme measure, which will still lead to collapse. So trim the sturgeon - 40% of the male population is from the realm of fantasy.
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 03: 45 New
                      0
                      http://voenniybilet.com/prizyvnoj-vozrast-v-sluchae-vojny/
                      Secondly, the senior categories of storekeepers are subject to appeal. Thus, in wartime, all fit men from 18 to 50 years old can go to the front
                      Quote: ccsr
                      This is complete nonsense, because even in wartime 40% of men cannot be drafted into the army
                      However, there is such an opportunity, and legislatively.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      because such an outflow of the working-age population will cause a collapse in the economy
                      In fact, women also participate in the economy, and not only in the form of consumers. And generally speaking:
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      What are 256 thousand in a country with a population of 3.7 million? 256 - this is reg. Army + all reservists cleaned up.
                      The rest is women.
                      The answer was to this nonsense, your nonsense is only a little less complete.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      There are norms that allowed the maximum draft in the army
                      Well, if there is, then throw a reference.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 6 December 2019 12: 01 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Secondly, the senior categories of storekeepers are subject to appeal. Thus, in wartime, all fit men from 18 to 50 years old can go to the front

                        Well, where does the state’s mobility reserve and really warring people during the war? You said that
                        In the Russian Federation in case of war are subject to draft 32 ages, this is at least 40 percent of the male population actually.

                        and this did not happen even during World War II, so either correctly present your idea or do not make irresponsible statements.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        in wartime, all fit men from 18 to 50 years old can go to the front

                        Here you have managed to pile up nonsense, because the officers are called up to 60 years, and some categories up to 65 years are in stock, and only then retire by age.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        However, there is such an opportunity, and legislatively.

                        You also have the opportunity to become the Supreme Commander, but this is only in theory.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Well, if there is, then throw a reference.

                        But figs to you - this is all during the command training officers study, and this material is usually secret. Although, if you wish, you will find it on the net, I just do not want to engage in educational program again.
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 14: 42 New
                        +1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Well, where does the state’s mobility reserve and really warring people during the war?
                        Those. Do you think that really warring people are fighting separately from the state and its mobile reserve? Powerful logic.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        in wartime, all fit men from 18 to 50 years old can go to the front
                        Here you have managed to pile up nonsense

                        This nonsense was piled up at the Military Medical College, but such a commanding officer as you were too lazy to follow the link, I understand, because your training was usually secret. In addition, you do not see the difference between may set offand will be shipped.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        because the officers are called up to 60 years, and certain categories up to 65 years are in stock
                        You do not even seem to understand that you added another 15 ages, albeit officers.
                        Quote: ccsr

                        You also have the opportunity to become the Supreme Commander, but this is only in theory

                        Of course, in theory, in practice, nothing shines for me, because you have already occupied this position, it's just a secret.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        and this was not even during World War II

                        During the years of the Second World War, about 32 million people were called up in the Red Army (taking into account the composition as of June 22), will you withdraw the percentage to 210 million people in the USSR, or help? Although what am I talking about, it’s not appropriate for the commander’s officer to figure out the numbers. More than 15 percent! From the entire population of the country!
                        The Germans generally have about 20 million from less than 100 million. the whole population! This is just 40 percent of the male!
                        Quote: ccsr
                        But figs to you - this is all during the command training officers study, and this material is usually secret

                        Of course, of course, this material is usually secret, under the heading "nonsense from a finger sucked" it passes.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I just do not want to engage in educational program again

                        Hello, since when did elementary knowledge become "usually classified materials" maybe it's just such nonsense? Educational program is generally the elimination of illiteracy, i.e. teaching the simplest things, but this simplest thing has not reached you.
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 6 December 2019 18: 54 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Those. Do you think that really warring people are fighting separately from the state and its mobile reserve? Powerful logic.

                        No, I believe that the entire mobile reserve cannot be called up with the outbreak of war.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        This nonsense was piled up at the Military Medical College,

                        For ordinary and sergeant - you forgot to specify. And besides them, there are other categories of servicemen who are in reserve and who are called up if the war starts.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Over the years of the Second World War, about 32 million people were called up to the Red Army

                        This is for the entire time of the war, and not from its beginning - feel the difference.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        More than 15 percent! From the entire population of the country!

                        Could not 15% of the country's population at the same time be in the army - do not smash nonsense. And the wounded or sick in the army were returning to the national economy all this time, so do not show your ignorance in the elementary issues of counting military personnel by years of the war.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Hello, since when did elementary knowledge become "usually classified materials" maybe it's just such nonsense?

                        For amateurs, this is nonsense, professionals understand what is at stake. But you do not belong to them, so you can consider all this nonsense - the flag is in your hands.
                      4. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 19: 18 New
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Those. Do you think that really warring people are fighting separately from the state and its mobile reserve? Powerful logic.

                        No, I believe that the entire mobile reserve cannot be called up with the outbreak of war.

                        Well, learn to formulate your thoughts.

                        If you have a memory hole, then I remind the subject of the dispute
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        What are 256 thousand in a country with a population of 3.7 million? 256 - this is reg. Army + all reservists cleaned up.
                        The rest is women.

                        All reservists together with the army in Finland at that time were no less than 700 thousand.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Could not 15% of the country's population at the same time be in the army - do not smash nonsense. And the wounded or sick in the army were returning to the national economy

                        Ranbolny people whom you didn’t come back to, returned to the army, you seem to be unable to understand this, and whom you commanded were unlikely to greatly help the country's economy, you would have argued such nonsense about the dead and dead. About women and adolescents at machine tools and in the fields you do not seem to know at all.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Over the years of the Second World War, about 32 million people were called up to the Red Army (taking into account the composition on June 22)
                        Where is it written about the simultaneous appeal? You stupid nonsense, here you don’t even have to go far to open your lies.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        usually classified materials "maybe it's just such nonsense?

                        For amateurs, this is nonsense, professionals understand what is at stake

                        You, like a professional, covered up your lies with words about secrecy. And if you have learned the word mobrezerv, then with other words your situation is so-so.
                      5. ccsr
                        ccsr 6 December 2019 20: 16 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        If you have a memory hole, then I remind the subject of the dispute

                        Here you have managed to lie, because the subject of the dispute was completely different - I quote the text and my answer:
                        Quote: Vasily50
                        Since the beginning of 1939, the three millionth of Finland began to mobilize the army. By August 1939, more than five hundred thousand (500000) armed fighters stood under arms.
                        My answer:
                        It is difficult to believe in this figure, because it turns out that every sixth Finn was mobilized into the armed forces, and this does not fit into the calculations, because there is not enough strength in such a situation to support such an army.

                        I didn’t even enter into a dialogue with you, but apparently you were impatient to show your intelligence, so the province began to write ...
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Ranbolny who did not commit, returned to the army, you seem to be unable to understand,

                        It’s you who are not able to understand that not all the wounded returned to the army, but they were commissioned because they were unfit for military service.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        and whom they commissioned could hardly greatly help the country's economy

                        It’s complete nonsense, because even disability has working groups, and many of those commissioned became teachers, officials or occupied organizational positions in the workplace. In our school, a lame labor teacher taught even in the 60-70s, and he was injured at the end of the war.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Where is it written about the simultaneous appeal?

                        Why, then, was it to speculate at all with this figure - what does it prove?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You, like a professional, covered up your lies with words about secrecy.

                        I sympathize with your ignorance regarding mobility reserves, but I warned you that this is from the field of military sciences, and you are a complete amateur in them, which is why you don’t understand what it was about.
                      6. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 21: 03 New
                        +1
                        You have already begun to “answer” to me in my own words. Your comments are stupid, you do not remember the essence of the dispute, your pathetic attempts to portray yourself as a professional are simply ridiculous. He sympathizes with illiteracy
                        Quote: ccsr
                        You, like a professional, covered up your lies with words about secrecy.

                        I sympathize with your ignorance in matters of mob reserves, but I warned that this is from the field of military sciences
                        You gurgled bullshit, rushed to check this bullshit, did not find confirmation, and immediately assumed a mysterious appearance, that’s all the explanation of “secrecy”.
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        What are 256 thousand in a country with a population of 3.7 million? 256 - this is reg. Army + all reservists cleaned up.
                        The rest is women

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Those. you consider reservists as a militia, wow. Even 10% of the population in the army, which is not the limit for the economy, is already 370 thousand.
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Which 256 thousand in a country with a population of 3.7 million

                        In Russia, in the event of war, 32 years of age are subject to draft, this is at least 40 percent of the male population actually.

                        You got into it with your enchanting incompetence, and you reproach me. Hand face!!
                      7. ccsr
                        ccsr 7 December 2019 11: 02 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You got into it with your enchanting incompetence, and you reproach me.

                        I simply pointed out to the amateur that he was nonsense, not knowing the essence of this issue - that would be more accurate.
  • Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 5 December 2019 19: 36 New
    -2
    Excuse me, did you participate in that war?
  • Alexander Makarov
    Alexander Makarov 7 December 2019 03: 05 New
    -2
    Stalin did not draw any experience and it was precisely this that clearly showed the beginning of the war with Germany. And, in principle, he couldn’t extract anything right for a simple reason: the absolute power of one tyrant and the ambience that was clogged up in the cellars of the GPU, including the command staff, would never be able to draw the right conclusions. The same thing happened with Hitler. And we are observing the same thing with Putin (I'm talking about civil protests, about the exposures of Navalny, etc.) - no conclusions. The right conclusions can be made ONLY in an open, competent, honest and most importantly NOT IDEALIZED discussion of a group of professionals. In Russia, this was NEVER. I'm afraid it won’t be, judging by articles like this.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 7 December 2019 11: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Makarov
      the absolute power of one tyrant and the encirclement mired in the GPU basements, including the command staff, will never be able to draw the right conclusions.

      Complete nonsense, if only because before the war the construction of new SDs began, so even only in this episode is seen how our leadership took into account the Finnish results. You can bring a mobplane for 1941, which took into account the structural changes of the Ground Forces, in particular, the planning of creating new mechanized corps and the release of new tanks. I don’t even mention about activities of a lower level, such as the processing of cover plans or the conduct of a BUS, but they also showed that Stalin and the military leadership did not look as careless as you drew in your head. So moderate the revealing ardor, especially judging by the binding of the mistakes of the leadership of capitalist Russia to the leadership of the socialist USSR and Hitler it immediately becomes clear where your "ideas" grow from.
      Quote: Alexander Makarov
      The right conclusions can be made ONLY in an open, competent, honest and most importantly NOT IDEALIZED discussion of a group of professionals.

      Judging by your bias towards our Vienna history, you certainly should not be allowed to such a discussion - smoke aside for a start, especially since you obviously do not pull on a professional.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 December 2019 01: 40 New
      0
      As liberals raved with spherical horses, I look and rave.
  • evgic
    evgic 5 December 2019 11: 38 New
    +2
    Before leaving comments on military topics on this site, I recommend that you nevertheless dive into the topic at least a little bit. And then you look like a complete ignoramus. If not worse
  • fighter angel
    fighter angel 5 December 2019 12: 57 New
    +2
    Irina.
    You still have to study and study the history of the Soviet-Finnish winter war ...
    All your comment, sorry, is "burps from the 90s."
    The costs of that policy of mass national humiliation of the country and its history.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 15: 40 New
    +4
    And when Hitler nevertheless attacked, he said in less than a year that the Russians in 1939-40 had brazenly deceived him, purposely pretending to be weak and inept ... fool
  • Engineer
    Engineer 5 December 2019 11: 26 New
    +3
    The article is some sort of apogee of an alternative exposition. Alternative and history and common sense.
    Finland on the eve of the Winter War was so confident in victory and so dreamed of expanding that it was digging millions into the Mannerheim line. And the whole plan was based on holding out for six months before coming help from the West. Surely, what is really there.

    Moscow got everything it wanted and more.

    Moscow wanted the Baltic scenario in Finland. For this, a pocket government was being prepared and a provocation had been planned, and demands for a joint investigation and mutual withdrawal of troops were rejected. Did not work out.
    True patriots, smart, healthy, ready for self-sacrifice.

    Undoubtedly, this was partially true. But only partially. The course of the war showed that on the other side, the quality of human material was also in full order and even better.
    Comments are a separate panopticon.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 14: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Engineer
      that on the other side with the quality of human material was also in full order and even better.

      Needless to say, how can some sort of "Rus" be better than a Finn ?! Nonsense.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 5 December 2019 14: 28 New
        -2
        With the rest, therefore, agree?
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 14: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: Engineer
          With the rest, therefore, agree?

          I fell to your level and you defeated me due to experience.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 5 December 2019 14: 30 New
            -4
            Then you should be ashamed, offended and hurt)
  • Operator
    Operator 5 December 2019 11: 30 New
    +3
    Finnish confidence was not based on their own strengths, but on the expectation that external forces — Germany, Britain and France — would fit in with them. The same thing is happening now with the addition of the United States to this list.

    Stalin's mistake was that he was in a hurry - he had to wait until the summer offensive of Germany and the surrender of France in 1940, after which Finland itself would join the USSR on the model of the Baltic states.
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 15: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: Operator
      Stalin's mistake was that he was in a hurry - it was necessary to wait for the summer offensive of Germany and the surrender of France in 1940

      To do this, Stalin needed to have either a time machine or clairvoyants abruptly messing and wangi. And then he could be guided by:
      1. World War I, during which the Entente and Germany bleed one another to the blue.
      2. Real events on the Western "front" from 03.09.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX, which did not guarantee at all that someone would attack anyone there.
      Therefore: there is an agreement with Germany, but the threat of war with it (and, quite possibly, not only with it, but also with Finland itself) has not gone away and it is necessary to prepare for it. Leningrad is a very important and very vulnerable militarily place from Finland. We must protect him. Therefore ... we know what happened.
      And most importantly: if France surrenders, what are the guarantees that Finland itself would join the USSR? Rather, I would rush (as it happened in reality) to the Germans wing-to-wing. "Who is with Adolf and me?" Make friends with the strong!
      1. Operator
        Operator 5 December 2019 16: 24 New
        -3
        You yourself speak of the absence of a time machine - therefore, the USSR should not have been in a hurry, but acted upon the actual situation, which in the winter of 1939-40 was not in favor of the Soviet Union.

        The fact that Stalin, acting in conditions of uncertainty, chose the least effective time to ensure the security of the northwestern border of the USSR from the aggression of neighboring Finland (which had annexed the Pechenga and several other areas of the RSFSR).

        Moreover, it was enough to wait not for the surrender of France, but for the start of German military operations on the Western Front, when all possible allies of Finland would interlock with each other.

        In a one-on-one situation with the USSR, the Finns would raise their paws themselves. A bonus to this would be the best preparation of the Red Army for the Soviet-Finnish war.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 18: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Operator
          it was enough to wait not for the surrender of France, but for the start of German military operations on the Western Front, when all possible allies of Finland would interlock with each other.
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 18: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          Moreover, it was enough to wait not for the surrender of France, but for the start of German military operations on the Western Front, when all possible allies of Finland would interlock with each other.

          And what guarantees that hostilities will begin there? But Germany will not go further east after Poland? In the West they are unlikely to mind ...
          Quote: Operator
          In a one-on-one situation with the USSR, the Finns would raise their paws themselves.

          It is only necessary for such a situation to arise. And this is very unlikely! Therefore, Stalin had to hurry ... based on the actual situation.
          1. Operator
            Operator 5 December 2019 18: 23 New
            +5
            Based on the alleged situation.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 18: 36 New
              0
              Based on the forecast of the likely development of the actual situation
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 5 December 2019 11: 31 New
    +5
    Another portion of off-scale delirium.
    There are hundreds of Finnish memories of this war. They knew, both officers and soldiers, that the forces were not equal, that they had no reserves, almost zero tanks. They had no plans but to try to fight off with dignity and inflict losses on the enemy.
    1. gorenina91
      gorenina91 5 December 2019 12: 56 New
      0
      -Yes, because the Finns voluntarily ... as one ...- came to the numerous recruiting stations, gathering places, where they were armed and assigned combat missions ...
      -But they might not have appeared ...- who would have been able to find them in various farms, forest haunts, hunting huts ??? -Who would look for them there and drive them to the militia ??? -Just there was nobody who could force them ...- they would have stayed in the taiga ... -and nobody would have done anything to them ... -But they themselves volunteered and started to fight ...
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 18: 18 New
        -2
        Quote: gorenina91
        But they could not have appeared ...- who would have been able to find them in various farms, forest haunts, hunting huts ??? -Who would look for them there and drive them to the militia

        In 1944, they did so. True, some losers were shot ...
    2. Corn
      Corn 5 December 2019 13: 44 New
      +4
      Exaggerating nonsense, this is the profile specialization of this author, who has more than 3 thousand articles on various topics, which, in terms of content and level of alternative, are not only worse than the other, but also often directly contradict each other.
      I won’t be surprised if in this way he simply makes fun of readers who take his “creativity” seriously.
    3. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 5 December 2019 16: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      There are hundreds of Finnish memories of this war.

      Memories are post-war, of course? And those have a wonderful property to differ (often diametrically opposite way) from pre-war opinions, views, beliefs.
      Before the winter war, Finnish soldiers, from the words of their officers, knew that the Russians had zero tanks, and for them were tractors lined with painted plywood that could be pierced with a bayonet.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      They had no plans but to try to fight off with dignity.

      In pursuance of these plans, the Finns from the beginning of the war went on the offensive until they found out that the Russians have tanks .... And all other weapons ... hi
  • Blue fox
    Blue fox 5 December 2019 11: 39 New
    +6
    Do not forget the Finnish anti-Soviet propaganda between the transfer of independence of Finland and the beginning of the Winter War, the belief that the "related" peoples of Karelia, the Vepsians and the Karelians themselves, will support the Finns (they’ll stumble on their “Continuation War” when unlike the voluntary SS divisions from the Baltic states, the Finns did not manage to gather volunteers from the Karelians and Vepsians to equip at least a full-blooded company), as well as the fact that the long-term fortifications on the Eneckel line, which will become much later began to be called Mannerheim’s line back in the 20s, with their modernization in the early 30s, when the most protected were built to existing and modernized ones, made in accordance with the latest trends of military engineering, construction (a la Poppius "," Millionaire "," Peltola ", pillboxes Ink 6 and 7, Le 6,7, Sj-10, etc.).
  • Doctor
    Doctor 5 December 2019 11: 45 New
    -2
    The look of the Finns.

    "... Why did Finland resort to armed defense, which, soberly assessing the situation, had no chance of success? One of the explanations is that there were no other options besides surrender. The Soviet Union recognized the puppet government of Kuusinen and ignored the Helsinki government , which did not even have any ultimatum requirements, and in addition, the Finns placed their hopes on their military skills and on the advantages that the local nature provides for defensive operations.

    ... The successful defense of the Finns is explained by both the high morale of the Finnish army and the great shortcomings of the Red Army, in the ranks of which, in particular, major purges were carried out in 1937-38. The command of the Red Army was carried out unqualifiedly. In addition, military equipment acted poorly. The Finnish landscape and defensive fortifications turned out to be impassable, and the Finns learned how to effectively disable enemy tanks using Molotov cocktails and missile explosives. This, of course, added courage and courage even more.

    ... In Finland, the concept of "the spirit of the Winter War" has been established, which means unity of mind and willingness to sacrifice oneself for the sake of defending the homeland.

    ... Studies confirm the claim that in Finland, on the eve of the Winter War, consensus prevailed that the country should be defended in case of aggression. Despite heavy losses, this spirit was preserved until the end of the war. “The spirit of the Winter War” was imbued with almost everything, up to the Communists.

    ... An important reason for the appearance of the "Spirit of the Winter War" was the false Soviet propaganda. In Finland, they treated the Soviet newspapers with irony, which wrote that the Finnish border was “menacingly” close to Leningrad. The allegations according to which the Finns staged provocations at the border of the Soviet Union and thereby launching a war sounded absolutely incredible. Well, and when, after such a provocation, the Soviet Union terminated the non-aggression pact, which Moscow had no right to do under the pact, distrust grew more than before.

    ... According to some estimates of that time, confidence in the Soviet Union was largely undermined by the fact of the formation of the Kuusinen government and the vast territories received by it as a gift. Although they assured that Finland would remain independent, Finland itself did not have any particular illusions about the veracity of such assurances. Confidence in the Soviet Union fell even further after urban bombing, which destroyed hundreds of buildings and killed hundreds. The Soviet Union categorically denied the bombing, although the inhabitants of Finland watched with their own eyes.

    ... The memory of the repressions of the 30s in the Soviet Union was fresh. For the Finnish communists, it was most offensive to observe the development of close cooperation between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, which began after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

    ... The Winter War and the difficult world that followed were some of the most tragic periods in Finnish history. These events leave an imprint on the interpretation of the history of Finland in a broader aspect. In the Finnish consciousness, the heavy burden was postponed by the fact that it was nothing unprovoked aggression, which was meanly and without declaration of war by the eastern neighbor, and which led to the rejection of the historical Finnish province.

    ... Further prolongation of the conflict threatened the Soviet Union with grave international consequences. The League of Nations on December 16.12 deprived the Soviet Union of membership, and England and France began negotiations with Finland on the provision of military assistance, which was supposed to arrive in Finland through Norway and Sweden. This could lead to a full-scale war between the Soviet Union and the Western Allies, which, in particular, were preparing from Turkey to bombard the oil fields in Baku.

    ... Having shown military resistance, the Finns lost a large territory and tens of thousands of people, but retained their independence. This is the difficult image of the Winter War, which responds with pain in the Finnish consciousness. "


    Timo Wihavainen, Professor of Russian Studies, University of Helsinki
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 13: 53 New
      +6
      It’s a pity that the professor remembered neither the massacres of Russians, nor the Finnish “pranks” in the Soviet border, nor the shelling of Soviet territory right before the war (I’m not talking about Mineila now), you look and the image of the Winter War was not so hard in the suffering Finnish consciousness .
    2. Unknown
      Unknown 5 December 2019 14: 01 New
      +2
      referring to the Finns is also possible, and even necessary, but ....... the statements of the professor mentioned above are better left for internal Finnish use, it does not suit us. there are interests of the state, and state security, and they are more important. let it all be vihavainen-answer than kuusinen, would be worse for the USSR than the same risto ryuti? already like that, I quoted an excerpt from the speech of I.V. STALIN, on this occasion, I will cite again ........... Before the Finns we asked two questions from the beginning of the war - choose one from two: either go to big concessions, or we will spray you and you will get the Kuusinen government, which will gut your government. So we said to the Finnish bourgeoisie. They preferred to make concessions so that there was no popular government. You are welcome. The affair is amicable, we agreed to these conditions because we received quite serious concessions that fully ensure Leningrad from the north, south, and west, and which threaten all the vital centers of Finland ......... .... everything from our side is clear and clear. what questions can be? cities bombed, so it’s war. Won Americans with the British generally erased all of Germany in powder bombing, and nothing peace, they don’t remember. if you read Marshal Aviation Golovanov, then mostly military and strategic targets were bombed. for example, to which object should be attributed, hydroelectric power stations, or stations, railway nodes? and in general, according to the logic of the professor, in the year 44 we were only for the blockade, and the victims of St. Petersburg, we should have set such an account so that the Finns still hiccuped. and we kind of forgiven, we tried to put a board even in Petrograd. like that.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 5 December 2019 18: 12 New
        +2
        let it all be vihavainen-answer than kuusinen, would be worse for the USSR than the same risto ryuti?


        What does it mean "what Kuusinen would be worse"? He was perfect for the USSR. Absolutely tamed Finnish communist.

        MESSAGE ON THE ESTABLISHMENT OF DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS BETWEEN THE USSR AND THE FINLAND DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

        2th of December 1939

        On December 1 of this year, the Chairman of the People’s Government and the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Finland, Mr. Kuusinen, addressed the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR with an official statement on the formation of the People’s Government of Finland and suggested establishing diplomatic relations between the Democratic Republic of Finland and the Soviet Union. The Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR decided to recognize the People's Government of Finland and establish diplomatic relations between the USSR and the Finnish Democratic Republic.

        True, - 1939, - December 2.
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 5 December 2019 20: 22 New
          -2
          I agree, not exactly expressed the idea. certainly kuusinen, it would be better, in any case of war there would definitely not be. if that comrade would have cleared the Suomi from the bourgeoisie, much less there were enough Red Finns, not all were destroyed in the 18th year.
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 5 December 2019 18: 29 New
        +3
        cities bombed, so then she and the war


        TELEGRAM OF THE PEOPLE'S COMMISSAR FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE USSR V. M. MOLOTOV TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS J. Avenole
        4th of December 1939

        On behalf of the Government of the Soviet Union, I have the honor to notify you that the planned meeting of the Council of the League of Nations on December 9 and the Assembly of the League of Nations on December 11 at the initiative of Mr. Rudolf Holsti * and on the basis of Art. 11 § 1 of the Covenant of the League of Nations seems to my government unreasonable.
        Soviet Union not at war with Finland and does not threaten war with the Finnish people. Therefore, a link to Art. 11 § 1 of the Covenant of the League of Nations is incorrect. The Soviet Union is in peaceful relations with the Democratic Republic of Finland, with whose government December 2, p. d. he concluded an agreement on mutual assistance and friendship **. This agreement resolves all issues on which negotiations were unsuccessfully held with delegates to the former Finnish government, which has now resigned.
        The Government of the Democratic Republic of Finland in its Declaration of December 1 of this year appealed to the government of the USSR with a proposal to provide the Finnish Democratic Republic Assistance by our military forces in order to jointly eliminate the most dangerous hotbed of war as soon as possiblecreated in Finland by its former rulers.

        Molotov
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 5 December 2019 21: 18 New
          -3
          Well, what did Molotov say wrong? On November 28, 1939, the non-aggression treaty between the USSR and Finland was announced. On November 30, hostilities began. As it’s not called war, it is war. and if the air force of the red army smashed Helsinki, like the allies of Dresden in 1945, so the Finns might not have fought.
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 5 December 2019 12: 16 New
    -4
    Great logic.
    The Finns did not make concessions, so they wanted war, so they were sure of victory.

    Exactly the same logic can justify modern events - sanctions, Syria, Ukraine, in general, everything.
    1. gorenina91
      gorenina91 5 December 2019 13: 01 New
      -8
      -Yes, what help is there ??? -What is there hope for someone ???
      -Just the Finns simply had such patriotism that it just went through the roof ...
      -That's the whole answer ...
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 13: 47 New
        +2
        Oh, and what is it then, with a 10 percent loss, the Finns of the world requested? 10 percent of those killed in the army and the subsequent drain of resistance is the level of not even Poland, France is the level.
    2. Corn
      Corn 5 December 2019 13: 31 New
      -2
      Exactly the same logic can justify modern events - sanctions, Syria, Ukraine, in general, everything.

      Bravo. Now you understand the purpose of sculpting “articles” of similar content.
  • Adjutant
    Adjutant 5 December 2019 12: 57 New
    +2
    Although for the Finns, participation in the Second World War became a “Continuation War”, but slightly different wars
  • Stanislav Ivanov_2
    Stanislav Ivanov_2 5 December 2019 13: 52 New
    +7
    According to the Germans themselves, the Finns fought even better than themselves! With some bitterness. Shumilin recalls in his memoirs “Vankarotny” how the Finn killed 20 of our soldiers sleeping with a long knife with one knife.
    In this regard, I can’t understand this bitterness that appeared in the Finns, certainly before the 39 year war. Indeed, in essence, it was Russia that allowed the Finns to be saved from assimilation by the Swedes, gave them statehood, and the entire infrastructure of Finland was created with Russian money. And no prohibitions on the Finnish language, schools, etc. Why, is such anger asked in return?
    1. venaya
      venaya 5 December 2019 17: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Stanislav Ivanov_2
      And no prohibitions of the Finnish language ..
      There are more than enough examples of the ban on the Russian language. So, for reference: this remake itself under the name “Finnish language” was introduced in those places thanks to the Christian sect of Lutheran Protestants, starting only from the XNUMXth century, and before that they used the local dialect of the Venetian language more often, however, as elsewhere ..
  • smaug78
    smaug78 5 December 2019 14: 17 New
    +1
    Why the Finns were sure of victory over the USSR - Samsonov in his repertoire.
  • Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 5 December 2019 16: 03 New
    +2
    Actually, the Finns in the civil war wanted to chop off a fat piece of Karelia, Leningrad half of Finland is the tsar’s gifts the army had their money in the Principality of Finland Reykjavik former fishing village became the capital Finnish crowded out the Swedish language there was a constitution which was not in other parts of the empire
  • Disorder
    Disorder 5 December 2019 16: 14 New
    +5
    Quote: Olgovich
    Therefore, they concluded a "Friendship Treaty" with the Nazis. Who else was this, do not remind?

    Actually there was a "Non-aggression pact between Germany and the Soviet Union", and not about friendship.
    The same agreements have already been:
    Germany-Poland - 1934
    Germany-England - 1938
    Germany-France - 1938
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 December 2019 17: 26 New
      +1
      In fairness, the treaty was called the Treaty of Friendship and Border, the usual diplomatic wording. True, in the text of the agreement the word "friendship" is only in the name, and "friendly relations" occurs only once. But about similar treaties of other countries with Germany, Olgovichi and others like him are dearly forgotten.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 5 December 2019 19: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        In fairness, the treaty was called the Treaty of Friendship and Border, the usual diplomatic wording.

        In fairness, you give the name of the September Treaty, and not the one the author of the text talks about, which was concluded in August 1939.
        August 23, 1939: Non-aggression pact between Germany and the Soviet Union (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact).
        The agreement meant a sharp reorientation in Soviet foreign policy towards rapprochement with Germany. The secret protocol to the contract established the delimitation of the spheres of interests of the parties. Germany recognized the interests of the USSR in Latvia, Estonia, Eastern Poland, Finland and Bessarabia.
        Following the conclusion of the treaty, Germany attacked Poland on September 1, 1939, and the Red Army entered Eastern Poland on September 17, 1939, after which Western Ukraine and Western Belarus (1939) were included in the USSR, and subsequently the Baltic States and Bessarabia (1940) ; at the end of 1939, the USSR attacked Finland, unleashing the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-1940.
        September 28, 1939: Treaty of friendship and border between the USSR and Germany.
        He carried out the demarcation between the USSR and Germany approximately along the “Curzon line”; secured the liquidation of the Polish state.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 6 December 2019 04: 14 New
          -2
          Oh, how, but I was rubbed here by one that the non-aggression pact is the friendship pact, and I rushed in a hurry. Thanks.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 6 December 2019 11: 49 New
      -4
      Quote: Trouble
      Actually there was a "Non-aggression pact between Germany and the Soviet Union", and not about friendship.

      go to school and finally find out about the "Agreement on friendship and border"-it was after PfP
  • Niko
    Niko 5 December 2019 17: 46 New
    0
    Mom dear !!!!! And are there really people who believe in this?
  • bubalik
    bubalik 5 December 2019 17: 49 New
    0
    ,,, the war began when Finland could no longer support a non-belligerent army, and the war ended when Finland could no longer continue the war, not only because of defeats on the fronts, but also economically.
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 5 December 2019 18: 40 New
    +2
    About losses in the Finnish war.
    From the book of Pyotr Balaev
    Klim Voroshilov. First Marshal of the country of Soviets. Friend
    Stalin, the enemy of Khrushchev. - M.: Book World, 2017 .-- 608 p.

    “Yes, forgive me ..... (here the author has a word that is very suitable for all anti-advisers, but the “machine gun” is not pro-pack), which the Finns' losses are estimated at 20 thousand with a little, and our dead - at 200 thousand with a tail. That's right. What are these Russians to regret ?!

    The official figure of the losses of the Red Army in that campaign, without any tricky calculations, is 48745 people killed. Voiced by Molotov, the head of government at the time.

    The killed Finns counted our 85 thousand. But the funny thing is: in 1939, Finland fought about 600 thousand soldiers against the USSR, and in 1941, when Mannerheim vowed to avenge the Soviets for the insult inflicted during the winter war, only 407 thousand, together with parts of the German corps.

    Aw! Where have 200 thousand gone? Left for the partisan mountains? ”
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 6 December 2019 11: 52 New
      0
      Quote: Alexander Green
      But the funny thing is: in 1939, Finland put order against the USSR 600 thousands soldier,


      What are you talking about ?! belay Read WHAT is Finland!
      from the book of Peter Balaev

      Human is sickand you mock him. am

      According to the writer, the civil war in Russia actually ended in February 1918 with the unconditional victory of the Bolsheviks,
      lol
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 7 December 2019 00: 23 New
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        The man is sick, and you are mocking him

        This question is controversial, it seems that you too have been diagnosed, but you do not agree with him.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 7 December 2019 08: 11 New
          -1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          This issue is controversial.

          You are your nonsense about ... 600000 lol laughing Finnish army will prove a "big man"?
          Or write off your normal condition?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 7 December 2019 16: 04 New
            -2
            Quote: Olgovich

            You your nonsense about ... 600000 of the Finnish army will prove, "big man"?
            Or write off your normal condition?

            Krivosheev. Book of losses.

            "By the end of November 1939, the Finnish armed forces concentrated on the borders with the Soviet Union, together with a trained reserve, totaled up to 600 thousand people, about 900 guns of various calibers. They also had 270 combat aircraft, 29 shipsй. Almost half of the ground forces (7 infantry divisions, 4 separate infantry divisions and one cavalry brigade, several separate infantry battalions), combined into the Karelian army, were concentrated on the Karelian Isthmus. In the Murmansk, Kandalaksha, Ukhta, Rebolsky and Petrozavodsk directions special groups of troops or other operational-tactical units have been created. "
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 8 December 2019 09: 10 New
              0
              Quote: Alexander Green
              "By the end of November 1939, the Finnish armed forces concentrated on the borders with the Soviet Union totaled together with a trained reserve up to 600 thousand.

              Who is this nonsense designed for?
              By the beginning of the war with the USSR ("Winter War" - Talvisota) - by November 30, 1939, by means of general mobilization, the size of the Armed Forces of Finland was increased to 300 000 person (14% of the population).
              More than just a physical thing is impossible!

              links:
              Army of Finland 1939 - 1945 // Journal "Soldier at the Front", 2005, No. 7.

              Kozlov A.I. The Soviet-Finnish War of 1939 - 1940 Riga, 1995.

              Abbott P., Thomas N., Chappel M. Allies of Germany on the Eastern Front 1941 - 1945 M., 2001, SS. 10-17.

              Krivosheev fell again ....
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 8 December 2019 14: 18 New
                -1
                Quote: Olgovich
                Krivosheev fell again ....

                But I believe something Kriveshev more than the Balts and other foreigners.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 8 December 2019 15: 05 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  But I believe something Kriveshev more than the Balts and other foreigners.

                  Finns are better Krivosheev know, didn’t get it?
                  Puolustusministeriö kutsui ylimääräisiin harjoituksiin noin 300 reserviläistä... Harjoituksiin kutsuttiin lähes kaikki alle 60-vuotiaat upseerit ja alle 40-vuotiaat miehet ja aliupseerit. Joukkojen pääosa oli valmiina Neuvostoliiton vastaisella rajalla 20.lokakuuta 1939.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 8 December 2019 15: 49 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The Finns know better than Krivosheev, didn’t it?

                    The Finns hide a lot, for example, the active participation in the hostilities of the Shutskors, who by December 1939 totaled more than 111 thousand people.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 9 December 2019 10: 41 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Finns much hide for example, active participation in the hostilities of the Shutskors, who by December 1939 totaled more than 111 thousand people.

                      What for ?! At least a million Finns were in the army, they had every right to themselves, this does not change the essence: the USSR attacked and they all know it very well.
                      Krivosheev from ... Moscow, without leaving his office, "exposed" them! fool lol
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 10 December 2019 18: 22 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The USSR attacked and all this is well known.

                        Only you "know" this, repeating Goebbels nonsense along with all the enemies of the Soviet Union.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 December 2019 09: 28 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Only you "know" this, repeating Goebbels nonsense along with all the enemies of the Soviet Union.

                        Name those who think ELSE.
                        lol
                        Begin:
                        1.England
                        2 Poland.
                        3. Romania ... etc.

                        Come on?
                        Boldly !! ....

                        "The war against Hitlerism is CRIMINAL" - Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR Molotov
                        and hto repeats lol ?
                        .
                      3. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 17: 24 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Only you "know" this, repeating Goebbels nonsense along with all the enemies of the Soviet Union.

                        Name those who think ELSE.

                        Begin:
                        1.England
                        2 Poland.
                        3. Romania ... etc.

                        Come on?
                        Boldly !! ....

                        ... and Olgievich ...
                        Now it’s clear whose agent you are.
                      4. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 December 2019 17: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "The war against Hitlerism is CRIMINAL" - Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR Molotov

                        Pulling a quotation from to ontxt is not a lot of mind. So all the slanderers do.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 December 2019 09: 39 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Pulling a quotation from to ontxt is not a lot of mind. So all the slanderers do.

                        Bring the FULL text refuting the quote, liar.
                      6. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 December 2019 00: 14 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Bring the FULL text refuting the quote, liar.

                        Read, distortionist, you are "ours"
                        "Recently, the ruling circles of England and France have been trying to portray themselves as fighters for the democratic rights of peoples against Hitlerism, and the British government has announced that it was as if the purpose of the war against Germany was, no more and no less, than" the destruction of Hitlerism " It turns out that the English, and with them the French, supporters of the war declared against Germany something like an "ideological war" reminiscent of old religious wars. Indeed, religious wars against heretics were in their time Gentiles were in fashion. They are known to have led to grave consequences for the masses, to economic ruin and to the cultural savagery of peoples. These wars could not give anything else. But these wars were during the Middle Ages. Is it not these times of the Middle Ages The ruling classes of England and France are dragging us back to the times of religious wars, superstitions and cultural savagery? In any case, a war of even greater proportions and even greater dangers for the peoples of Europe and the whole world is now under the "ideological" flag. But this kind of war has no justification for itself. The ideology of Hitlerism, like any other ideological system, can be recognized or denied; this is a matter of political views. But any person will understand that ideology cannot be destroyed by force, it is impossible to end its war. Therefore, it’s not only pointless, but also criminal to wage such a war as the war for the “annihilation of Hitlerism” under the guise of a false flag of the struggle for “democracy”. In fact, one cannot call the struggle for democracy such actions as the closure of the Communist Party in France, the arrest of communist deputies of the French parliament or the curtailment of political freedoms in England, unremitting national oppression in India, etc. "
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 December 2019 10: 36 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Bring the FULL text refuting the quote, liar.

                        Read, distortionist, you are "ours"
                        "Recently, the ruling circles of England and France have been trying to portray themselves as fighters for the democratic rights of peoples against Hitlerism, and the British government has announced that it was as if the purpose of the war against Germany was, no more and no less, than" the destruction of Hitlerism " It turns out that the English, and with them the French, supporters of the war declared against Germany something like an "ideological war" reminiscent of old religious wars. Indeed, religious wars against heretics were in their time Gentiles were in fashion. They are known to have led to grave consequences for the masses, to economic ruin and to the cultural savagery of peoples. These wars could not give anything else. But these wars were during the Middle Ages. Is it not these times of the Middle Ages The ruling classes of England and France are dragging us back to the times of religious wars, superstitions and cultural savagery? In any case, a war of even greater proportions and even greater dangers for the peoples of Europe and the whole world is now under the "ideological" flag. But this kind of war has no justification for itself. The ideology of Hitlerism, like any other ideological system, can be recognized or denied; this is a matter of political views. But any person will understand that ideology cannot be destroyed by force, it is impossible to end its war. Therefore, it’s not only pointless, but also criminal to wage such a war as the war for the “annihilation of Hitlerism” under the guise of a false flag of the struggle for “democracy”. In fact, one cannot call the struggle for democracy such actions as the closure of the Communist Party in France, the arrest of communist deputies of the French parliament or the curtailment of political freedoms in England, unremitting national oppression in India, etc. "

                        WHERE REFUSAL OF APPROVAL
                        not only pointless but it’s also criminal to wage such a war as the war for the “annihilation of Hitlerism"
                        ignoramus?
                        WHERE is the affirmation that it IS NECESSARY to fight with him?

                        you completely forgot how to understand Russian in Ukraine
                      8. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 December 2019 18: 14 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you completely forgot how to understand Russian in Ukraine

                        You ignorant, you liar, and you forgot how to understand the Russian language, too, you have completely beat your brains in Moldova with Latin letters, it’s not without reason that Chamber 6 cries for you.

                        Read the highlighted context and ponder the meaning of what has been said.
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 15 December 2019 10: 40 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        You ignorant, and you liar, and you forgot how to understand the Russian language too, you have completely beat your brains with Latin letters in Moldova, not without reason for you, ward number 6 is crying.

                        You already write this once. What for?! fool lol
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Read the highlighted context and ponder in the sense of what has been said.

                        I will repeat the meaning of Molotov’s words, if he still hasn’t reached you: It’s not only pointless, but also criminal to wage such a war as the war for the “annihilation of Hitlerism”
                        Got it? no
                      10. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 15 December 2019 18: 52 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You already write this once. What for?!

                        And this is so that you remember what readers of the forum think about you and your comments.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Got it?

                        Well, cat, again I have to repeat that it is not necessary to take words out of the context of a big mind.
                      11. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 16 December 2019 07: 49 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green

                        And this is so that you remember that I think about you and your commentsyut readers forum.

                        fool
                        WHO gave you the right to speak on behalf of readers? Who are you?
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Well, cat, again I have to repeat that it is not necessary to take words out of the context of a big mind.

                        Give a TRUE meaning. allegations of CRIMINAL war against Hitlerism-for the tenth time.
                        Or fiction is not enough? lol
                      12. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 16 December 2019 19: 31 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHO gave you the right to speak from readers? Who are you?

                        I am a reader!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Give a TRUE meaning. allegations of CRIMINAL war against Hitlerism-for the tenth time.
                        Or fiction is not enough?

                        I explain personally for a particularly frostbitten amateur-pseudo-historian:

                        Molotov in his speech criticizes the purpose of the war - the "destruction of Hitlerism", which the British government declared under the flag of bourgeois democracy. He clarifies that in this form, war is essentially an “ideological war”, which he compared to old religious wars.

                        Then Molotov tells the commonplace truths that ideology cannot be destroyed by force, it is impossible to put an end to it, that it is not only pointless, but also criminal to wage such a war, because troubles for the population, it will bring a lot.

                        Then he reveals the falsehood of this struggle, when the Communist Parties of France are banned under the flag of bourgeois democracy, the Communist deputies of the French parliament are arrested, and much more.
                      13. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 17 December 2019 08: 36 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I am a reader!

                        ONE!! Got it?
                        Quote: Alexander Green

                        Molotov in his speech criticizes the purpose of the war - the "destruction of Hitlerism", which the British government declared under the flag of bourgeois democracy. He clarifies that in this form, war is essentially an “ideological war”, which he compared to old religious wars.

                        Then Molotov tells the commonplace truths that ideology cannot be destroyed by force, it is impossible to end its war, that it’s not only pointless, but also criminal to wage such a war, because troubles for the population, it will bring a lot.

                        That's right: Molotov just said so: therefore it is CRIMINAL to fight Hitlerism.
                        DO YOU support IT? Answer yes / no!
                      14. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 18 December 2019 06: 29 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ONE!! Got it?

                        Do not make yourself a moody woman. You asked the question: Who am I! I answered you: I am a reader!
                        If you asked the question: Who are you? I would answer: WE are Readers!
                        But this does not reach you, judging by your residual mental abilities - you only understand: Yes-No.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Answer yes / no!

                        I wonder how you answer my question;
                        Are you a patient of ward number 6?
                      15. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 18 December 2019 10: 50 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Do not make yourself a moody woman. You asked the question: Who am I! I answered you: I am a reader! If you asked a question: Who are you? I would answer: WE are Readers!

                        belay fool
                        I asked you: WHO gave you the right to speak on behalf of readers? Who are you?. Reveal the empowerment of readers granted to you. Are you authorized? Who are you? Has it finally arrived or is Russian inaccessible, as always?
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I wonder how you answer my question;
                        You are patient number 6?

                        You have been answered a million times: such questions are of interest to the patients themselves.

                        So you will answer the question:
                        Molotov said: therefore it is CRIMINAL to fight against Hitlerism.
                        DO YOU support IT? Answer yes / no!


                        why are we silent? Shame on you? lol
                      16. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 18 December 2019 21: 00 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHO gave you the right to speak on behalf of readers? Who are you?

                        Who are you? On whose behalf do you slander Soviet history, spit saliva and bile on socialism? You have been slandered far and wide, ostracized publicly, and you will not come to your senses. Be treated.
                      17. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 19 December 2019 07: 58 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Who are you? On whose behalf do you slander Soviet history, spit saliva and bile on socialism?

                        1. I speak only in my name. Got it?
                        2.FACTS is NOT a libel.
                        You are doing a shameful LIE.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        You have been slandered far and wide, ostracized publicly, and you all will not come to their senses.

                        So you because .... plus signs here are torn? belay fool lol
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Be treated.

                        See above.

                        So what's up with Molotov?

                        Shame .... lol
                      18. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 19 December 2019 19: 04 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Shame ...

                        Be treated!
                      19. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 December 2019 09: 32 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Heal!

                        Ask your site administrators about the admissibility of such garbage.
                      20. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 20 December 2019 18: 25 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Ask your site administrators about the admissibility of such garbage.

                        And this is a short answer to your love of garbage, remember how you insult everyone everywhere, including me, and I answer intelligently, treating a doctor physically - because you don’t take offense at patients.
                      21. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 December 2019 08: 27 New
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        And this is a short answer to your love for garbage, remember how you insulting everyone everywhereincluding me

                        You lie as always
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        and I answer intelligently, - heal - because they don’t take offense at patients.

                        You Ask the site administrators yourself about the admissibility of such garbage or are you afraid?
                      22. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 21 December 2019 17: 01 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You Ask the site administrators yourself about the admissibility of such garbage or are you afraid?

                        You need, you ask me for my comments, while there were no warnings.
            2. nekromonger
              nekromonger 3 January 2020 18: 09 New
              -1
              your Soviet history is all through and through false
  • Alevil
    Alevil 5 December 2019 19: 43 New
    +4
    Whatever it was, but the USSR acted in accordance with its interests, as was customary in the world at that time (and even now it is customary), without going beyond the framework, without arranging genocide. Ask how many wars England started in accordance with its own interests, without worrying about the principles of humanism and international law. Moreover, a dangerous neighborhood with a country that has already demonstrated aggression did not threaten Manchester or Birmingham at all. The danger came from the interests of England or British business (or the opportunity arose to profit at someone else's expense) far, far beyond the seas.
    And yet ... Justifying the Finns is the same as justifying the most notorious Nazi criminals, because the Finns staged the genocide of the Russian people in the territories they occupied. I know about this genocide from the words of my own grandmother, who, as a girl of 14 years old, ended up in a Finnish concentration camp. In this concentration camp, her baby cousin died. My grandmother also told how the Finns hung and shot Russian teenage boys. So I can say for sure: the defenders of the Finns here on this site are either fools who did not bother to even know a little about the topic under discussion, or enemies and scum.
  • zenitovets
    zenitovets 5 December 2019 20: 21 New
    -4
    Interestingly - the Finns have increased brains, or not?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 5 December 2019 21: 51 New
      0
      Interestingly - the Finns have increased brains, or not?


      They turned the whole country into the Mannerheim Line.

      The Finnish authorities have been actively preparing underground tunnels and bunkers to protect the population of Helsinki in the event of an invasion from outside.
      As noted by the British tabloid Daily Express, a 200-kilometer system with a total volume of about 9 million cubic meters will be able to accommodate the entire population of the capital, which exceeds 600 thousand people. The bulk of the underground structures was built in the 1960s and is currently intended for civilian purposes.
      There are pools, hockey courts and parking lots available for residents of the city. However, if necessary, these facilities can be converted into shelters and command centers in a short period of time. In March, Finnish troops conducted exercises to counter the siege of the capital, and are currently training to mass evacuate the population in this "underground city." However, in June Finland also agreed with NATO on protocols that mean that in the event of an invasion, it can turn to the alliance for help.

      “We learned from World War II and that is why we created a tunnel system. Every effort must be made to continue to live even under heavy bombing, ”the journalist quotes the Ministry of Defense of Finland.



      Finnish military intelligence chief - ethnic Russian - Alafuzov, Georgy Borisovich.

      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 6 December 2019 12: 02 New
        -4
        Quote: Arzt
        “We have learned from World War II.”

        yeah, the Germans, they are ....
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 6 December 2019 12: 27 New
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        “We learned from World War II and that is why we created a tunnel system. Every effort must be made to continue to live even under heavy bombing, ”the journalist quotes the Ministry of Defense of Finland.

        They were completely dead of their "significance" - no one will spend nuclear charges on them, too small a bipod based on the military capabilities of Finland.
      3. Fraracol_2
        Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 17: 19 New
        -2
        It’s just never forgotten ...
    2. S-400
      S-400 7 December 2019 14: 23 New
      -1
      Judging by the level, life, level of pensions, social guarantees, etc., it has increased and not bad. The Russian Vania just did not have it, and no :(
  • Brigadier
    Brigadier 6 December 2019 06: 01 New
    -1
    Hoping for the British and other "allies" ...
    Well, just like today's banderlogs. One to one.
  • Molot1979
    Molot1979 6 December 2019 09: 14 New
    0
    Most importantly, in the last paragraphs. They pulled for too long preparing for war. And it was necessary to prepare, even if the negotiations promised success. Especially - if, as in this case, they didn’t promise, but instead they put everything on the negotiation card and when they had to fight, they paid tens of thousands of lives for this beaten bet. Sea vis with a pair - a pair of bellum. Wisdom on this occasion was voiced thousands of years ago.
  • ABM
    ABM 6 December 2019 12: 56 New
    0
    Quote: gorenina91
    -Yes, there was absolutely no benefit ... -after this pyrrhic victory in the Red Army
    how it was all ...- so it all remained (as everything remained in the Red Army and after Halkin-Gol) ...- no lessons were learned so much and weren’t and everything went its course ... -And for these precious 2,5 , 1941 years (until the summer of XNUMX) in the Red Army it was possible to change everything drastically ... -but nothing was changed ... -And everything began to change only after the monstrous losses and the disaster that befell the Red Army at the very beginning of the Second World War ...


    Irina, firstly, a year and a half, not two and a half; secondly, in the winter it was, the Wehrmacht did not learn how to fight in the winter
    1. S-400
      S-400 7 December 2019 14: 26 New
      -1
      Why did you think that ?! I have not learned. Tell this to the hundreds of thousands of starvation in siege of Leningrad, as the Wehrmacht "did not learn to fight in the winter"! :(
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 6 December 2019 13: 35 New
    +2
    London and Paris prepared a completely different scenario of the world war - England, France and Finland (possibly other countries) against the USSR.

    Historians usually omit this important point.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Fraracol_2
    Fraracol_2 6 December 2019 16: 27 New
    -1
    "The Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-1940 looks like the stupidity of the Finnish elite." - didn’t you confuse anything about the elites?
  • Alexander Makarov
    Alexander Makarov 7 December 2019 02: 47 New
    -2
    The article is false from beginning to end. The author is a bastard who justifies the crime of the Stalinist regime. He writes: "As a result, a provocation occurs, and the Red Army begins to admonish obstinate and aggressive Finns." Shit doesn’t have the guts to admit that the provocation was led by the "valiant Red Army", carried out vile and vile. Like everything that Stalin did. Driving under his urapatriotic nonsense, he distorted historical facts. The landing of the British expeditionary force of about 60 thousand was planned not in Petsamo, but in Norwegian Trondheim and Narvik. And the hull has already started loading onto ships. Stalin pissed and 3 days before the planned British landing and the threat of tearing away everything captured from the Finns, he made peace with them.
    1. S-400
      S-400 7 December 2019 14: 34 New
      -3
      Yes, listen, you are trying in vain, it is useless to explain it to stubborn mega-padded jackets: faith is an impenetrable thing.
      In the XXI century, when almost any document can be found on the Internet, when any proof (if it really is) is at the click of a finger, when the famous collection “Secrecy of Secrets has been removed” a hundred years ago, when even “court” historians no longer dispute the fact that the Maynil incident is either the work of the NKVD officers or it was even sucked out of the finger by the Stalin agitprop, these people continue to write "Finns fired on Soviet territory" ... well, damn it, well this is a clinic :( :(
  • S-400
    S-400 7 December 2019 14: 18 New
    -2
    I really don’t catch up, why is this collection of quotes of mossy propaganda lies once again laid out here?
    I am making a rational proposal: let’s lay out as in a joke about travel and number jokes, here on the site is a numbered list of standard Achinean theses, for example:

    No. 1 - Stalin wanted the security of Leningrad;
    No. 2 - the requirements of the USSR were completely justified;
    No. 3 - the base at Hanko was needed in order to block the Gulf of Finland with artillery;
    etc. etc. and etc.

    And then another + 100500th article about “malicious Finland” would narrow down to one sentence:
    "thesis No. 1, No. 3-5, etc." and a reference to the above list :) :) :)
  • otto9966
    otto9966 7 December 2019 15: 05 New
    0
    "We are all good alone bad" .... Somewhere I already heard this jingle ..... On a box of jelly Kissel and Solovyov they sing day and night for a couple of praises of power - all the bad we are good ..... And this one there ........ We are cool ... we defeated a small but evil Finland - to go together ....... now with delight?)))
  • dgonni
    dgonni 7 December 2019 15: 07 New
    +1
    Why did Samsonov think that the Finns were going to fight with the USSR? And even more so to think about victory?
    Regarding the return of territories, everything is simple. Why not give away the Kuril Islands of Japan?
  • Enky
    Enky 8 December 2019 13: 32 New
    +1
    Hitler's definition of the USSR as a “colossus with feet of clay” was then dominant in the West. It is worth remembering that the same strategic mistake, like Finland in the autumn of 1939, will be committed by the Third Reich in the summer of 1941.
    - this phrase from the article can be described as follows: “We think what they think ...” - however, if you listen to the audio recording of Hitler’s conversation with Mannerheim, it turns out exactly the opposite ...
  • gennadii
    gennadii 8 December 2019 19: 00 New
    0
    This once again suggests that Russia has only two loyal friends, the army and navy.
  • Майло
    Майло 10 December 2019 16: 19 New
    0
    One thing is unclear here - why is the author Alexander Samsonov written down in the authors and there is no reference to Yu. I. Mukhin’s book “The Crusade to the East” - the material presented is a slightly modified fragment from there.
  • chaklun characterist
    chaklun characterist 11 December 2019 10: 37 New
    0
    It has already been discussed many times in various sources who and why started the Finnish company. The result - a large number of deaths from the Red Army, a shift of the border with the Finns from Leningrad by almost 150 km. and a large number of Finnish territory became part of the USSR. So it’s not clear who won the Finnish company, Finland or the Soviet Union. If it weren’t for the Finnish company, Leningrad could have been taken in 1941 by German forces together with Finnish ones. The Finnish company was beneficial to the Soviet Union and began its Soviet Union with the help of provocation. But she didn’t go according to the plans of our leadership, there was little information about the Mannegraim line, they hoped for the working masses in Finland that they would revolutionize and help the Red Army.
  • nekromonger
    nekromonger 3 January 2020 18: 05 New
    -1
    I haven’t heard any more nonsense about the winter war, did you create all this yourself or with someone’s help? How could the Finns count on victory with virtually no aircraft and heavy weapons? they were aware that they could hold out for some time.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 3 January 2020 19: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: nekromonger
      how could the Finns count on victory with virtually no aircraft and heavy weapons?

      And what did Saakashvili count on in 2008, when he fired on our peacekeepers, did not think about it by chance?
      1. nekromonger
        nekromonger 3 January 2020 22: 46 New
        -1
        and this is what side here?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 4 January 2020 17: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: nekromonger
          and this is what side here?

          The most direct - some pygmies imagine themselves to be powerful people, and arrange a provocation in the hope that they will get away with it. So the Finnish leadership hoped that they could scoff at the proposals of the USSR and go unpunished, so they got what they deserved.